Between Heat and Hope - a climate litigation podcast for for students, fellow academics, and everyone interested in developments around climate litigation as a tool for propelling necessary climate action. With our guests from legal practice, academia and activism we discuss the most recent developments and shed light on the background, rationale, and theory surrounding the phenomenon.
This podcast forms part of the ERC funded project on climate litigation and democracy. You can find us at: climatelitigation.uva.nl
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10 Years of Climate Litigation | with Dennis van Berkel
Season 1 · Episode 1
Monday, January 26, 2026 • Duration 48:47
10 Years of Climate Litigation
In this first episode of Between Heat and Hope, Simon Waswa, PhD researcher at the University of Amsterdam is joined by Dennis van Berkel, Legal Counsel of the Urgenda Foundation and Strategic Advisor at the Climate Litigation Network (CLN). The conversation begins by taking stock of CLN’s 10-year anniversary since the landmark Urgenda decision. This decision marked the first time a court ordered the State to do its part in the fight against climate change. The discussion then delves into the legal architecture that has been cumulatively built from the bottom up through the different climate cases from Urgenda to KlimaSeniorinnen to the International Court of Justice’s Advisory Opinion (ICJ AO) on climate change.
The conversation closes with reflections on the future of climate litigation and the democratic legitimacy of courts as they continue to hold States and corporate actors to account amid political backlash and an accelerating climate crisis.
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
Greenpeace The Netherlands v. The Netherlands (Bonaire case) | with Phillip Paiement
Season 1 · Episode 2
Saturday, January 31, 2026 • Duration 53:40
Greenpeace The Netherlands v Netherlands (Bonaire case)
In this second episode of Between Heat and Hope, Phillip Paiement, Professor of Law & Governance in the Anthropocene at Tilburg Law School, discusses the Bonaire case of 28 January 2026 with Christina Eckes, professor of European Law at the University of Amsterdam. The conversations covers the adaptation and mitigation aspects of the judgment.
In relation to adaptation, it draws out the particular situation of the residents of Bonaire as compared to the resident of the State of the Netherlands, reflects on the missed opportunity to engage more with the colonial history of the claims in this case, and concludes that the case may serve as basis for future litigation by plaintiffs from the Caribbean Netherlands, including not only the special municipalities like Bonaire but potentially also the autonomous constituent countries. More broadly, it offers a basis for equality claims grounded in geographical vulnerability.
Concerning mitigation, the discussion covers the judgment’s grounding in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR)’s KlimaSeniorinnen judgment (2024), the relative absence of the Advisory Opinion (AO) of International Court of Justice on States’ Obligations in Respect to Climate Change (2025), and the District Court’s engagement with fair share. It comes to the conclusion that the Bonaire case applies the budget logic of KlimaSeniorinnen and the ICJ’s AO but could have more clearly developed its express requirement that the State of the Netherlands quantifies its emission allowances as part of the global emission budget that keeps global warming below 1.5°C.
References
Bonaire Case (Dutch with links to the English translation)
The Legal Strategy behind Greenpeace The Netherlands v Netherlands (Bonaire case) | with Eefje de Kroon
Season 1 · Episode 3
Monday, February 23, 2026 • Duration 46:56
The Legal Strategy behind Greenpeace The Netherlands v Netherlands (Bonaire case)
In this third episode, Eefje de Kroon, Greenpeace The Netherlands’ Campaign Lead for Climate and Energy, speaks with Tessa Trapp, PhD Researcher at the University of Amsterdam, about the Bonaire Climate Case (Greenpeace The Netherlands v The Netherlands). The conversation begins with a brief overview of the Dutch court’s judgment pronounced on January 28, 2026, and the mitigation, adaptation, and non-discrimination obligations for the Dutch government. Eefje then expands on Greenpeace's advocacy and legal strategy relating to Bonaire, including on the special history, culture, and traditions, as well as particular vulnerability of the island. She also talks about the close relationship and collaboration with residents of Bonaire and people with a personal connection to Bonaire, who played a central role not just in planning the case, but also in its success, despite not being granted individual legal standing. To conclude, Eefje and Tessa look to the future and discuss potential follow-ups, as well as political and judicial consequences of the judgment.
References
Bonaire Case (Dutch with links to the English translation)
Music: “Delayed Flight” by Michael Ramir C. via mixkit
Lawyering before the European Court of Human Rights | with Veronika Fikfak
Season 1 · Episode 4
Monday, March 9, 2026 • Duration 32:25
Lawyering before the European Court of Human Rights
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope, Veronika Fikfak, professor of Human Rights and International Law at UCL, joins us to discuss the ‘European Human Rights Bar’, this is the network of lawyers that bring cases to the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR). Having just completed an ERC Starting Grant and being about to start an ERC Consolidated Grant, Veronika has done extensive empirical work – both qualitative and quantitative – on the ECtHR. In this episode, she shares her great expertise on lawyering before the ECtHR and links it for us to current and future climate cases before the Strasbourg Court. We discuss opportunities and limits of bringing a climate case to the ECtHR, reflect on the consequences of the particularities of climate litigation in light of Veronika's research findings on the European Human Rights Bar in general, and discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the separation but also cooperation between domestic lawyers and their ECHR counterparts.
Music: “Delayed Flight” by Michael Ramir C. via mixkit
A Law and Political Economy Approach to Climate Litigation | with Ioannis Kampourakis
Season 1 · Episode 6
Thursday, April 9, 2026 • Duration 42:53
A Law and Political Economy Approach to Climate Litigation
In this episode, Ioannis Kampourakis, Associate Professor at Erasmus University Rotterdam and co-director of the Law and Political Economy (LPE) in Europe project joins Rena Hänel, PhD researcher at the University of Amsterdam, to talk about what is to be learned from applying a Law and Political Economy lens to climate litigation.
The episode begins with Ioannis describing the theoretical foundations of Law and Political Economy as a stream of legal scholarship that emphasizes the law as being constitutive of markets and the economy more generally. He then applies these insights to explain both how law has helped to create and sustain unsustainable economic patterns at the root of the climate crisis, and how climate litigation could harness the transformative potential of the law by focusing on what he calls structural enablers of economic power.
The conversation then turns to the practical work that the LPE in Europe project is doing with civil society organizations engaged in strategic litigation, including climate litigation, to integrate insights from scholarship into their legal strategies. In the end, Ioannis and Rena discuss ideas for potential future case strategies that could address the climate crisis as part of a wider "polycrisis" of climate change, widening economic inequality and wars, among others.
Corporations, Climate Change & Human Rights | with Evelyne Schmid
Season 1 · Episode 5
Monday, March 23, 2026 • Duration 29:38
Corporations, Climate Change & Human Rights
For this episode of Between Heat and Hope we are joined by Professor Evelyne Schmid. Evelyne Schmid is a professor of international law at the University of Lausanne, where she is an expert in human rights. Her work focuses, among other things on corporate conduct and the safe and just operating space of humanity within the environment.
In this episode, we discuss with Evelyne the ongoing Swiss case of Asmania et al. brought by four plaintiffs from the Indonesian island of Pari against cement producer and major emitter Holcim. From the role of human rights in this case, we move to a wider discussion on applying human rights regimes to corporate conduct, the role of corporations in the climate crisis and attempts of regulating corporate conduct through social responsibility and sustainability due diligence schemes. Throughout the episode Evelyne, teases out why it is important to also litigate against corporations and not just against states. She discusses the impact corporate conduct has on emissions and the power corporations hold in the international system, as well as the consensus in the international community that corporations have to be actively engaged in the green transition.
Standing at the European Court of Human Rights | with Corina Heri
Season 1 · Episode 7
Thursday, April 23, 2026 • Duration 27:09
Standing at the European Court of Human Rights
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope we are join by Professor Corina Heri. Corina Heri is Associate Professor of human rights and climate change at Vrije Universiteit Brussel and Primary Investigator of the TEMPORALAW project. In this capacity she works on human rights law, climate change, the role of courts as well as the role of vulnerability in the law.
The conversation sets out discussing climate litigation before the European Court of Human Rights and particularly looks at different questions related to access to court and what kind of applicants can and should bring climate cases. Corina walks us through her critique of climate litigation exclusively being brought by associations as flattening the claims that can be made that way. From KlimaSeniorinnen we look to the wider set of climate cases before the ECtHR and discuss how Duarte Agostinho, Greenpeace Nordic, and possible the pending case Müllner v Austria fit into the puzzle and what they tell us about the Court’s approach to the climate crisis. Corina also shares some more structural insights on the functioning of the Court in relation to its narrative of limited resources and how that impacts its treatment of climate cases. Finally, we get a taste of the questions Corina’s new project TEMPORALAW will investigate.
Science and Justice in Climate Litigation | with Joyeeta Gupta
Season 1 · Episode 9
Wednesday, June 10, 2026 • Duration 44:34
Science and justice in climate litigation
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope, we are joined by Professor Joyeeta Gupta. Joyeeta Gupta is Professor of Environment and Development in the Global South at the University of Amsterdam and Professor at IHE Delft Institute for Water Education. Her work sits at the intersection of climate law, earth system science, and environmental justice, with a particular focus on the Global South. She has been involved in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
The conversation begins by unpacking the role and working methods of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, where Joyeeta has been involved as a lead author. It then turnsto the current state of climate science and the prospects of limiting global warming to 1.5°C with no or limited overshoot. Joyeeta walks us through key concepts such as carbon budgets, net zero and overshoot, and explains how these concepts shape mitigation pathways and questions of equity. From there, we discuss the role and limits of science in climate litigation. The episode then turns to North-South equity, fossil fuel phase-out, carbon lock-in, and the particular justice questions raised by climate cases in Europe and the Global South. Finally, Joyeeta reflects on her long engagement with global climate policy and on what a more sustainable and equitable future would require.
The Indirect Impacts of Climate Litigation | with César Rodriguez-Garavito
Season 1 · Episode 8
Wednesday, May 13, 2026 • Duration 41:06
The Indirect Impacts of Climate Litigation
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope we are joined by Professor César Rodriguez-Garavito. César Rodriguez-Garavito is Professor of Law at the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice at New York University School of Law. He is the founding director of the More-Than-Human Life Program, the Earth Rights Research & Action Clinic, and the Commons on Machines, Policy, Automation & Society at NYU Law. His work focuses on international environmental law, Indigenous peoples’ rights, technology, and more-than-human rights. In 2025, Cesar published Climate Change on Trial: Mobilizing Human Rights Litigation to Accelerate Climate Action with Cambridge University Press.
The conversation explores the indirect impacts of climate litigation and the ways in which climate cases shape politics, public discourse, and the democratic process beyond the courtroom. Cesar reflects on his trajectory from socio-economic rights and socio-environmental conflicts to climate litigation and the rights of nature. Throughout the talk, we compare the development of climate litigation in Europe with experiences from Latin America and other regions of the world, discussing how different legal cultures and political contexts shape climate cases.
Drawing on Cesar’s earlier work on judicial activism and socio-economic rights, we discuss the distinction between direct and indirect effects of litigation, as well as the material and symbolic dimensions of climate judgments. We also explore the emergence of a global “litigation ecosystem,” where lawyers, scientists, activists, and communities increasingly collaborate across jurisdictions and disciplines. From the KlimaSeniorinnen judgment before the European Court of Human Rights to broader questions of standing, representation, and access to justice, the episode reflects on the democratic implications of climate litigation and the risks and opportunities of rights-based approaches to the climate crisis. Finally, Cesar shares his thoughts on the future of climate litigation and the transformative potential that climate cases may still hold.
Recommendations
Cesar Rodriguez-Garavito, .
International Investment Law as an Obstacle to Climate Protection | with Stephanie Triefus and Wiebe Hommes
Season 1 · Episode 11
Wednesday, July 8, 2026 • Duration 48:09
International Investment Law as an Obstacle to Climate Protection
The episode introduces the basics of international investment law, zooming in on Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS), a system of dispute resolution which allows foreign investors to seek damages, amounting on average to several hundreds of millions of euros, against governments.
Wiebe delves into the history of ISDS, explaining how fossil fuel companies like Shell were actively involved in the creation and shaping of international investment law. Stephanie outlines the most common criticisms of ISDS, including the system's lack of transparency and its potential to create a chilling effect on climate policy. She explains these dynamics further using the example of the case of ExxonMobil v the Netherlands concerning the closure of the Groningen gas field.
Finally, Stephanie and Wiebe reflect on perspectives for reform, concluding that procedural reforms of ISDS fall short of meaningfully addressing concerns around regulatory chill and the legitimacy of ISDS as such. Ending on a hopeful note, Stephanie brings up how ISDS was discussed as a potential barrier to climate action at the first Conference on Transitioning Away from Fossil Fuels in Santa Marta, indicating that internationally political momentum is building towards a potential overhaul of or exit from the system altogether.
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
Recorded at the University of Amsterdam, January 2026
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
Recorded at the University of Amsterdam, February 2026
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
Music: “Delayed Flight” by Michael Ramir C. via mixkit
Recorded at the University of Amsterdam, April 2026
The LitDem Project
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union’s Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
🇩🇪 Germany - socialSciences
11/08/2026
#40
🇬🇧 Great Britain - socialSciences
10/08/2026
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🇬🇧 Great Britain - socialSciences
09/08/2026
#72
🇬🇧 Great Britain - socialSciences
08/08/2026
#40
🇬🇧 Great Britain - socialSciences
27/07/2026
#92
🇬🇧 Great Britain - socialSciences
26/07/2026
#72
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