Intuitive Style explores strategies for shopping and dressing intuitively. Each week, a guest shares their approach to getting dressed—to show there’s no one right way, just the one that works for you.
Episode 28. Dressing for real life, with Anna Newton
Friday, February 27, 2026 • Duration 55:30
I am so delighted to share this week’s episode with the iconic Anna Newton of the Wardrobe Edit. Anna is THE blueprint for a writing & sharing about style online, and I truly enjoyed chatting with her. Recording this episode was the highlight of my month. I truly hope you enjoy as much as I did.
Transcript
Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is Anna Newton, OG content creator, published author, YouTuber, and the creative mind behind The Wardrobe Edit on Substack. Anna, welcome to the show!
Anna: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. We were just saying I haven’t recorded a podcast for the longest time, and I don’t think I’ve ever done one on fashion.
Maureen: Today is the day to get it started. There are some amazing shows about fashion, so I hope to see you on some more of them if you want to.
So I did want to just say before we get into it that I’ve been following you long enough that I wore the Giorgio Armani Luminous Silk on my wedding day, per your recommendation.
Anna: And did you love it?
Maureen: Yeah, I had been wearing it for a while, and I actually got my makeup professionally done. My makeup artist tried to color match me and she was like, “This Giorgio Armani that you have is a better color match and better than what I was making custom.” And I was like, okay!
Anna: Okay. It’s the best. I wore it on my wedding day too. That foundation is such an OG. It’s been in my makeup collection for years. They’ve reformulated it. I don’t know if it’s a worldwide thing, but in the EU they’re bringing out some really strict regulations around certain ingredients, so we’re getting a lot of foundation reformulations, which is kind of exciting. Aside from this, I’d say foundation is my second most exciting pursuit in life.
Maureen: Just wanted you to know that your recommendations are solid.
Anna: I love that.
Maureen: One of the recent series that you’ve been doing that I’ve loved is where you’re working with different personal stylists. Can you share a little backstory on the series and how it’s been?
Anna: Oh my gosh, that has been so fun. So last January, I did a kind of “shop your wardrobe” series. A lot of people do a no-buy in January, and I was like, how can I create content that sits with that and is still fun and exciting and encouraging people to wear what we already have and just have a month of experimenting in a way? Last year I did do a session with Allison Bornstein. I’ve done a few sessions with her over the years and just loved every single one. I think it’s quite a scary thing to work with a stylist. It feels quite vulnerable. It’s quite personal, having a meeting with someone you’ve never met before and going into your wardrobe. So I’ve really enjoyed doing those over the years to show people that it’s not a scary thing. It’s not something you have to do when you’re in complete dire straits with your wardrobe.
I think that’s a common misconception, that you only work with a stylist because you’re out of ideas and feeling in a really bad place with your style. It can definitely help with that, but even if you’re in a good place with your style, it’s still valuable. Personally for me, a lot of my friends in my real life are busy, they have kids. Maybe they care about what they wear, but it’s not something they’re writing an online newsletter about.
It’s been really fun to work with stylists in almost having a super stylish friend give you great ideas, come up with new ways to wear old pieces, give you little styling tips and tricks. I thought for this year I would build on that. I already had a session booked in with Allison Bornstein and I was like, how about booking with Reva Luft? What about Anna Baldwin? What about Kelly Klein? What about Angie Uh? It just kind of snowballed from there, and before I knew it my whole January calendar was full with stylist appointments with these people who I’ve mostly connected with on Substack.
I enjoy their content from a reader’s perspective, so it felt really special to be able to work with them on that series. I’m a fangirl of these people, and I got to work with them and showcase their talent. Ultimately I came away with well over 150 new outfit ideas. It’s crazy. My phone is just full of outfits that I can wear. I got to share that with my readers and show them that having a styling session is a really fun thing you can do. You’re supporting independent women who have created their own stylist businesses, and there were so many ideas.
Every single one was different. I didn’t go into each one with a specific spin in my head of who would help me with what, but it was really fun that I have the same wardrobe and each person brought a bit of their own personality and ideas to the table. It was really fun in the hour sessions that we had. By the end of it, I was always writing them before I went to bed. Because of the time difference, I was normally doing them at like 5 p.m., eating my dinner, and then desperate to sit on my laptop and write the post. The post was in me and I needed to get it out. It was really fun to find the different angles with different people and how they all brought something completely unique to the table.
Maureen: Yeah, it’s been such a fun series. I’ve been lucky enough to work with both Allison and Angie myself, and I’ve had different stylists on the podcast. I couldn’t agree more as far as the value you can get from working with a stylist, especially in a short-term way where it’s a one-off session and you’re just styling in your closet together. I think it’s so helpful to get out of your own head of what you might do and try out things you might not have tried before. Your series is obviously great because you put in so many photos, which is so helpful because we get to see how everything comes together. I know I was inspired by how you were styling a flannel shirt. I lived in Seattle, so it has a very specific meaning to it. Seeing you wear a flannel shirt in a totally different way, I was like, okay, you can give new life and new stories to garments. I thought that was particularly fun.
Anna: The flannel shirt was an interesting one because I think every single stylist gravitated toward it and used it in an outfit somewhere.
Maureen: Really?
Anna: Yeah, I’m pretty sure in every single session we ended up using it, but everyone used it in a slightly different way. Kelly did this trick where we tied it around the waist. Allison did a trick of wearing it open and using it as a sandwich layer between a white shirt or white T-shirt and a leather jacket. In every single one it was funny to see the same pieces styled in different ways. It’s almost like my true personal style is an amalgamation of all of those looks that everybody made. You could almost take pictures from each of the sessions and know which person did which. I think that’s fascinating when you’ve all got the same base material.
Maureen: I’m curious, have you felt different getting dressed since doing the series?
Anna: I’ve just written a post on this. It’s going to be out next week because I was like, I should hope so. Five hours with some of the best in the business, and we overran quite often, so it was more than five hours in a huge way.
I think it’s actually shifted more than I thought it would. I thought I’d just do these sessions and then have a roundup post at the end and be like, here are the 10 tricks that I’ve employed since. But it isn’t so much the styling tricks that I learned, although there are definitely things I’ve put into practice. It’s been a bigger shift in terms of what I have in my wardrobe and how precious I feel about it. That’s maybe not the right way to say it, but in my session with Reva Luft she said, “Your wardrobe is precious real estate. If things are in there, they deserve their place.” I ended up doing this massive wardrobe cull out of nowhere. One day after one of the sessions, I was like, right, I’m not wearing this. I’ve got this because I feel like I need to fulfill this category rather than actually using it and wearing it. It’s taking up space. So I got rid of almost 20% of my wardrobe. It sounds very extreme, but there were a lot of things that needed trimming out. It’s left me with fewer things, but things that are all fitting together more easily. It’s tricky to explain. I had this post in me that I was desperately trying to get out because I needed to put it into words. It’s been a different shift to what I thought would happen.
Maureen: When you say that you culled 20%, I hear clarity in your voice. Were there specific pieces that you knew you wanted to cull? Or did you feel friction with those specific items during the sessions? How did that go?
Anna: Yeah, I think they fell into a few categories. There was a category of things that just didn’t fit. I was like, but they’re vintage Levi’s and we love vintage Levi’s. And then I thought, if I’m saving them for days where I’m really feeling myself, that is not happening. I’ve got so many jeans, but I do love what I actually wear. Again, it’s taking up space and creating that decision fatigue around too many options. I’d rather just have the options that I like and that fit. Then there were things that I kept coming back to as problem pieces. I had a pair of burgundy cords, and in every single styling session I’d always be like, how do I style this? Then I was like, oh my gosh, it’s taking up a lot of space and a lot of time. I’m using time in these sessions to try to find answers to these burgundy cords, which when I checked my index stats, I think I had worn maybe three times in the last two years. I just thought, this is so silly. It’s obviously not a piece that’s working for me. There’s friction there. Take it out of the equation. In the past, I’ve been quite hasty and just boom, put it on Vinted or Vestiaire and gotten rid of it. Whereas now all this stuff is sitting upstairs, and I’m moving things in and out a bit slower than I’m used to. A few things have trickled back in. But I almost knew in my head which pieces had to go.
Maureen: I wrote a piece a year ago that sounds exactly like what you’re saying, the distraction of the wrong thing. If you have a garment that you have to force or really think about, it takes away the fun of putting together an outfit when you have to work really hard at it. I think Angie talks about this a lot too. She probably has a different word for it, but she wants everything in your closet to be seamless. If it’s really hard to style, aside from whether it fits you, it’s just not fun. It’s heaviness and it takes away the joy that I think everyone in this space is looking to achieve.
Anna: And I think there’s almost the misconception of, well, then you’ve stripped it back and you’ve got no personality pieces and no fun pieces. But I do have fun pieces in my wardrobe that I actually find quite easy to style and easy to wear. So I think it was showing me that I’d rather be wearing those and almost going back to basics in a way, feeling really good, feeling like my outfits are clicking and coming together, rather than grabbing something and going, I don’t like how that fits, or I only ever wear that with a black top and I’ve got no other ideas. So I think clarity was a big lesson that came out of having five-plus hours with professional stylists.
Maureen: That’s awesome. This is kind of an off-the-cuff question, but one thing I continue to struggle with is that I’m still buying the wrong things sometimes. I’m trying really hard to buy the right things and pay attention to how I feel in my clothes and make sure they feel effortless and go with things. Then I look back and I’m like, what was I thinking? Do you feel that’s inevitable?
Anna: Yes, I do. I think we’re all so hard on ourselves with this. Even the people who are the best in the business, even Allison Bornstein would stand there and say, I’ve bought some really messed-up things that did not work in my wardrobe, that did not look good, that did not fit.
For me, and this is really lazy, but something arrives and I think, it’s okay. It’s fine. If I breathe in, if I wear it with these shoes. From doing these sessions with everybody, it’s made me be a better shopper, which definitely wasn’t the point. It was called Shop Your Wardrobe Month. I wasn’t meant to go out and buy lots of new things. I did end up buying a few new things.
And I think it made me order the jeans in three different sizes. Even this jumper I ordered, I was like, the sleeves are a little bit short on it, is that right? So I ordered the next size up, and then that lost the fit around the body. Then I realized I wanted to keep the original size. It’s made me much more conscientious. It’s given me discernment around the fact that sometimes you just need to make the return. You need to get up and make the return instead of letting it sit there.
And you need to try things in different sizes. That was a big thing for me, that “oh, that’ll do” mentality. Not realizing that actually one size up in that denim would give me a bit more comfort and bagginess, which is what I was looking for. That’s been a big learn for me. I know Allison and Reva are both big on the “make three outfits” rule. Reva, in our session, was like, “Do you make three outfits with new items?” In my head I was like, no. She said, “You need to be doing them in your wardrobe.” She’s right. I’ve done that with every parcel that’s come in. If I haven’t had time, I leave it to the side until I can do that kind of styling session myself. That has definitely helped. I’m saying this while the pieces are fresh in my wardrobe and I’m really excited to wear them, but I do think it’s inevitable. There are things you can do as insurance, but inevitably we’re going to make some not-great purchases sometimes.
Maureen: I don’t know if you ever do this, but sometimes I’ll have a new item and I’ll try it on with different outfits and I won’t like the outfits, and I keep the item anyway. I’ll put together an outfit and think, I’m supposed to like this. It technically works, but it doesn’t feel good. And I’m like, well, it’s staying.
Anna: I have so done that. Or shoes not fitting. It’s always shoes. Or a pair of shoes that are so uncomfortable, but you’re like, if I just walk 10,000 steps in them they’re going to break in. No, they’re going to make your feet bleed. There’s going to be actual blood in the back that you’re trying to get out before you put them on Vinted. It’s just no.
Maureen: Well, all that being said, when I think of your career, you’ve worked with some huge brands, which from my perspective looks like a lot of options as far as what kinds of clothes you can bring into your closet. I’m curious, how do you stay consistent to yourself and your vision for how you want to dress when you have so many options? It feels like it would be even more difficult. How do you know when something is in your wheelhouse versus maybe not?
Anna: That is such a good question. I do donate a lot. I have this with beauty as well. I have one face. I am one human. I’m a single person. Through doing Indyx, I’ve worked out that when my wardrobe starts to go over 200 pieces, which for some people might seem tiny and for others might seem huge, I start getting really overwhelmed and I hate what I’m wearing and I hate my style. So I’m very careful about what gets added to the daily rotation.
I’m really lucky that quite often with the brands I work with, it’s a bit of a “you do you” situation. I don’t work with people who are like, you have to wear this top with this dress. That doesn’t work for me. I’m lucky to be at a place where I get a free pick of things. Whenever I’ve worked with Net-A-Porter, it’s literally pick off the website. I actually loan a lot of stuff from brands as well. Quite often it’s not necessarily things coming permanently into my wardrobe. It’s things I get to play with. To me, the ultimate is getting to work with a brand like Net-A-Porter where I loan items. Sometimes it’s really sad because they get sent back. Or I try things and then I’m like, oh God, now I need to buy this. It’s not as clean cut as that. But loaning is a really good way for me to play around with items. The brand is happy because it’s new-in-stock items I’m showing, but the ideal for me is when I get to incorporate them with what I already have. That’s ultimate.
Maureen: And you do that very, very well.
Anna: Thank you. That to me is ultimate because it’s authentic. I say to brands, we’re not wearing head-to-toe one brand. We’re mixing it with vintage, with secondhand, with a pair of jeans we’ve had for the last five years. That’s always the aim, to show people how these new pieces work with what I’ve already got and what you’ve already got, rather than head-to-toe looks. I think brands are realizing that’s the most authentic way to blend in these items instead of everything being brand new and pristine. It looks very clean, but ultimately people want to see the real-life application of things.
Maureen: As a viewer and reader for so long, I’m very active in the personal style space, and I’ll see creators go to fashion week and every day they’re wearing a head-to-toe look. All the looks are fabulous, but none of the pieces are interchanged from day to day. Every single day it’s totally new items. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve become more jaded to that. Anyone can make seven incredible outfits with brand-new pieces seven days in a row. It’s so much more interesting to see how people make use of what they already have, style it in different ways. It’s harder.
Anna: It’s harder. I think people love a capsule as well. That was so hot back in the day. I definitely fell down that rabbit hole. But it is more exciting to see that real-life remixing. I think that’s also why Substack does really well. A lot of people on Substack have jobs in marketing, they’re stay-at-home moms, they’re coming from all different walks of life, and they’re just showing what they genuinely wear every day. Not at a fashion show. They’re showing what they wear to drop their kids off, what they wear on their commute to work. That’s where Substack is a really fun place to play around with personal style. There are so many people. I follow well over 100 Substacks, and whenever I look at my inbox and think there are so many, I can’t edit them down because I genuinely love reading them once a week. That’s why it’s such a fun place to engage with personal style content, because people are just living their everyday lives and documenting what they actually wear. That’s what we want to see. That’s always at the crux of what I want to do. I never want to put on an outfit and not wear it out because that’s not really an outfit. That’s a work-from-home look, which is also fun to share. But I really want to be sharing those everyday, realistic outfits. I’ve got my sweats on right now. I snapped a little picture before this. It’ll be in my post on Sunday.
Maureen: I took a picture too. I was like, I need to document what I wore to talk to Anna.
Anna: I love that. That’s what we do, right?
Maureen: So, I just feel like you’re so articulate in this space. I wanted to hear your take on the idea of intuitive dressing. When you hear the word intuitive, what does that mean to you and how does that show up in your life, if at all?
Anna: I actually love this phrase. I know this is kind of your spiel, and I love it. I think it’s such an interesting phrase because everyone’s answer will be different. For me, and this has been the biggest shift in the last four years, probably since I had my son, it’s practicality. Intuitive dressing is dressing from a place that is very functional, but you also love your outfit at the same time. It’s marrying those two things together: practicality and functionality, but also feeling absolutely fantastic in it. I think sometimes people assume that if you have one, you can’t have the other. And I’m like, no, you can have both. Whenever I feel like I’m not dressing intuitively, or I’m not feeling my outfit, or it doesn’t feel authentic to me, maybe I’ve gone a bit too trendy, it always boils down to me also feeling uncomfortable in those outfits. Things are too tight. I love how fit comes up all the time for me. I’m like, girl just needs to buy jeans that fit.
Maureen: Same.
Anna: But I think it’s that something’s too tight or scratchy. Like you said, when you keep those things that deep down you know are a bad purchase but you keep them anyway. I do the same. A collar scratches or I don’t like how everything’s bunching up. It’s quite sensory for me. I really need to be comfortable in my clothing. I want it to be practical, but I also want there to be a bit of fun. Sometimes that’s what my style has been missing over the years. It’s the leopard print jacket, the vintage cuff, putting on some rings. Finding ways to add personality. That’s the bit that makes me feel cute while also wearing my rain boots. That’s the part that feels functional.
Maureen: I have a theory and I’d love your take. I feel like in the 2010s, for us millennials, we’ve had to do a lot of unlearning, especially around the trends that were popular when we were coming of age. When I was in high school and college, comfort was not a priority at all. Your pants needed to be as skinny as possible. Practicality was not a priority. It was almost a bad thing. You should be wearing heels. I wore heeled boots to my college classes, walking everywhere. Practicality being important is something we’ve had to teach ourselves and give ourselves permission for. It wasn’t a mindset that was present. That’s why it feels radical and difficult for me. When I look at my mood board, all the shoes are super dainty. I want to give myself permission to choose less dainty shoes, but I still don’t quite have that mindset. I’m curious about your take on that.
Anna: Absolutely. That’s such an interesting take because I had the exact same thing. My first office job was in London. I don’t live in London, so I had over an hour on the train and a 20-minute walk at the other end. And I was still doing that in exactly what you’re talking about, a heeled boot. I would never do that now. My toe boots are comfortable, but not for that every day. You’re right. It was sort of hammered into us. I would never have thought about comfort, function, practicality. It almost felt like a dirty word. Maybe it’s an age thing. My life now is very different. But there is a big amount of unlearning.
I think it also comes from where we get inspiration, like Pinterest. It’s very city. Very London, New York, Paris. It’s quite posed.
“That’s actually why I love Substack so much. I do so much of my screen-grabbing now from Substack because I live in suburbia. The other day I went down the road in my pony hair leopard print jacket and my neighbors were like, ‘Where are you going dressed like that?’” - Anna Newton for Intuitive Style
So it’s about marrying that aspirational version with your real-life environment. Pinterest can be tricky for that. Substack has massively helped me marry those two parts together.
Maureen: You’re making such a good point. Where we get our influences is directly forming our conception of what style is. If we’re consistently focusing on inspiration that’s impractical or purely aesthetic without relating to our real life, that impacts what we feel we should be wearing.
Anna: Absolutely. For the longest time I was looking at London girls holding little coffee cups. You know exactly what my Pinterest board looked like. But that isn’t my life. Having my son made me switch that. I can’t rock up to a soft play — which is basically an indoor play center with cushioned everything — in a blazer coat, tiny bag, and high-heeled boots. I wouldn’t feel comfortable in that environment. What’s really helped me is finding style inspirations grounded in the reality I’m living. That’s helped me refine where I’m at with my personal style.
Maureen: I appreciate that. I need to work on that. My mood board is moving toward practicality, but it could use more sneakers.
Anna: Add a few more flat boots in.
Maureen: Exactly. So I think we’ve touched on this a little bit, but I’d love to hear more about how you decide what to buy and what not to buy, especially in the context of those styling sessions where you mentioned you purchased a couple of things.
Anna: It was quite ironic that I was doing these sessions as part of Shop Your Wardrobe Month and then I bought about ten things. My husband was like, “Anna, the UPS guy is here again.” I almost needed to buy a lot of things to get it out of my system. I saw a TikTok the other day that said wish lists are good, but they can give a piece a lot of power. You romanticize it. Out of nowhere I decided I needed a pair of Dries Van Noten colored trousers. I found some in the sale, bought them, returned them all, and now I no longer feel the need to buy them. I know that’s wasteful. If I lived in London, I’d go try them on in store. But sometimes you romanticize something and then you try it and realize it’s not what you need.
The most successful purchases I kept were actually from my session with Reva. I keep talking about it because it genuinely felt like the styling session that changed my brain chemistry. We hadn’t worked together before, which made it fun. She’s also a mom of three and lives in Canada, so there was lifestyle overlap. Off the back of our session, she sent me a screenshot and said, “I think these things could be helpful for you.” One was a grey jumper. She said, “You love wearing your grey knit, but your cashmere knit is a slightly different vibe.” When I had my session with Allison, she agreed — it was sportier and more relaxed. I have worn this jumper so much. I was just thinking it needs to go in the wash after this session. So that was a good purchase. But like Reva said, I tried it on with so many things when it came. I also ordered lots of different versions to compare.
I ordered the one from The Great. I didn’t order the Donni one because Donni’s now really expensive to get in the UK. They’ve upped the shipping and the imports and everything. I looked at that, I looked at the Still Here one, I shopped around until I was like, no, I think this is the one. So I definitely feel like I put a lot more research in rather than just, oh, I’ve seen that on someone, click. I really went digging for these. She also suggested a pair of black, kind of crepey trousers. I’ve got black linen trousers and I’ve also got a really nice pair of more dressy trousers, but I wouldn’t really wear them every day. They’re kind of a dressy pair for me. And she was like, the Rogala pants. I was like, oh, you need the Rogala pants. I have never tried the Rogala pants. They’re a thousand pounds. I was like, I just can’t ever do that. But she suggested the Donnie crepe simple pants or something. I ordered them in two different sizes and I’ve returned them. They are not for me. You’re doing a quick Google of them now. They’re just like a loose fitting black crepe trouser, a bit more all-season.
I’ve obviously got a linen wide-leg pair which is very summery, but I just didn’t like them. I took her suggestion on, I tried a few different styles, and I think that sort of black trouser makes me feel like I’m back at school. There’s something about it that feels a bit school-uniform-y for me. I tried them in different sizes and I just couldn’t make them work. That’s an example of something where I was like, someone has recommended this, it’s a bit of a gap, but actually maybe that’s a gap that can just be a gap. I don’t think I need to fill it. I’ve got other things I can wear.
What else did she suggest? Oh, she suggested rain boots. I live in the UK. It rains. It’s literally rained for about a month straight at this point. It’s thoroughly depressing. The weather is awful. She said, cool, what shoes are you wearing to the park when it’s rained? I was like, my Converse? She was quite tough love about it, but in a kind way. She was just like, that is madness. How do you not have a pair of rain boots? She suggested some, the Solomons. She’s also got a snow clog thing. It doesn’t snow that often here, but again, I researched, had a look around, and then I found this brand called Tretorn, based in Stockholm. They’re 100% waterproof. They’re perfect. I’ve worn them so often since.
When I went for lunch with my friends on Saturday, both of them bought them by the end of our lunch. It’s things like that. She really helped me with practical holes in my wardrobe. None of those things are particularly sexy to buy. You wouldn’t be like, buying rain boots is a real game changer. But it has actually made my life easier. I know that sounds dramatic, but I wore them to Pilates this morning at the crack of dawn. I just slipped them on, then after Pilates slipped them on and walked out. It’s those tiny purchases that actually make your life easier. I needed her to say that to me. That’s not a hole I could find myself. So yeah, there have been a few things that I’ve bought and really loved, and then a few things I’ve tried and thought maybe that doesn’t work for me.
Maureen: Do you have any sense of what was preventing you from having rain boots before, or was it just out of sight, out of mind?
Anna: I think I thought they were ugly. I just thought they’re not for me. They almost felt too practical. I was like, I don’t know if I want to go there. I’ve got my Converse, it’s fine. I can put my Converse in the wash. It’s not a problem. I can wipe them down. But it’s about finding the right ones for you as well. Again, I played around with size. I ended up sizing down because my normal size were a bit too big and they looked a bit clumpy. And doing the stylist-approved thing of trying them on with multiple outfits really helped. I put them on and might have been unsure, but I actually like them best with black denim. My go-to is usually a blue wash of denim, but they can look a bit bulbous with that. They almost need something black to dull them down, to quieten them a bit. I’ve worn them so much. Everyone’s like, oh my God, Anna is wearing rain boots. I’m like, I know, check me out.
Maureen: Even the idea of styling them with black pants makes sense for your style with clean lines and seamlessness. That makes sense. I imagine with blue denim they’d look very 2017. I feel like that was the moment. Maybe we’re just in a different place now.
I could share one example from working with Angie. We talked a lot and she was like, I think you would like a black turtleneck. Similar to you, I tried it on with all the outfits and I was like, am I doing something wrong? And she’s like, no, your styling is great. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it. What I ended up doing was going into the Intimissimi store near me and I bought one in burgundy. It has a little silver shimmer to it. I don’t normally like shiny things, but I put it with all the same outfits and I loved it. It just had to be burgundy instead of black. So I think you can take the advice of a stylist and then run with it. They’re just giving you something to start with. It’s not rules. It’s just, hey, have you tried this?
Anna: Everything I ended up buying wasn’t actually the thing Reva had said. She had sent over specific models of things and I didn’t end up buying any of those. And that’s not to diss on Reva.
Maureen: No, not at all. It’s totally what you said. You need to find what’s right for you.
Anna: Obviously you’re not a black turtleneck girl, but you’re a burgundy one apparently.
Maureen: There you go. I wear it all the time. I love that. So thank you, Angie.
Anna: We love you, Angie.
Maureen: I feel like working with stylists is so cool, the melding of the minds.
I don’t want to be too radical, but what we’ve been talking about with practicality and making that a priority, I think that’s huge. I think that’s one of the reasons you’re so popular and successful with what you’re doing. I think women want permission to wear things that actually suit their lifestyle and are cool, but not this Instagram aesthetic perfection. Something that doesn’t get in the way of life. I think you do that really well. You’re always talking about how you’re wearing it and why you’re wearing it. It seems like you don’t let style get in the way of living fully.
Anna: I love that. Thank you. I think what I’ve realized through doing this for so long, I started off doing beauty and then had little moments with all sorts of things. Organizing, food, organization, lots of different things over the years. Cookies. I’m more than happy to be known as Cookianna. I’ll take that.
Maureen: Do you still drink Squash?
Anna: I drink Squash constantly. I’ve got it in now. The Squash is me. I am Squash. Cut me open, I am Squash at this point. So I’ve had a lot of different things over the years, but obviously settled on fashion.
And I think maybe even five years ago, so not really that long ago, it was very much like, right, okay, let’s get some outfits together, let’s go meet a professional photographer, let’s take some pictures, do an outfit change. It felt like the fashion content that went down really well and that everyone really wanted was quite curated, very aesthetic, very polished, taken on a big camera with a massive lens, that kind of look.
And now that’s really not the case. Everyone loves the little outfit selfie in the mirror that everyone can take. Anyone can do one of those, or just a picture downstairs in my kitchen. Quite often, I was out this weekend at a train thing. I am a train wife. My husband loves trains, my kid loves trains, I am around trains constantly. I was like, oh my gosh, have you been to the Bluebell Railway, which is our local heritage railway? I’m like, honey, I go there all the time. You want to find me? I’m there. But I was there and I just gave my phone to my husband and said, can you just take a quick picture? We were outside the men’s toilets. It was not aesthetically pleasing, but it was an outfit. I wanted a picture of the outfit in the moment as I was wearing it. And that’s what I like to see on other people’s Substacks and Instagrams. I think there’s been a real shift industry-wide. That just feels like what we like now. We want an outfit selfie. We want to see it in real life, situated in real life, rather than very posed aesthetic shoots. I just don’t really do stuff like that anymore because that’s not what I enjoy watching. It’s not what I enjoy doing. For someone who does what I do, I’m like, can you not take my picture? I hate having my picture taken.
Maureen: That’s so funny. I would never have guessed.
Anna: Yeah, it’s really not for me. I’m like, right, we’re done. I always make it the quickest thing ever.
Maureen: That makes me feel better. I hate having my picture taken.
Anna: Do people like having their picture taken? Maybe some people.
Maureen: I think a select number of people who have been professionally trained to do it well.
Anna: True. Yeah, true. And that is not me. And that’s okay. But it is interesting that it feels like there’s been a shift in the way it’s been shot and packaged, and also in the way that we live our lives in style as well. I think we’re moving away from that polishedness, both in the way the reader consumes it and the way people create content.
Maureen: I think I’ve made it extremely clear I do follow you and I’m aware of what you do, but I wasn’t expecting my takeaway from this call to be so clearly continuing to work on melding my personal style with the practicality of my life. I still think I need to work on that. Being in California, I live a very active lifestyle. I’m outside a lot, we’re going on walks. How can I maybe elevate that part of my style a little bit more or mix things a little bit more? I think that’ll be a good direction.
Anna: We need the post of that. We need a follow-up. We need to see it.
Maureen: Yeah, I should do that. I have to style it first. But giving ourselves permission to care about aesthetics without them preventing us from living the life we want to live is powerful. And also just feeling comfortable in every environment that you’re in as well.
Anna: I think when I first became a mom, I was so focused on blending in. All the moms were doing chunky trainers, so I was like, I need some chunky trainers. I went down a slightly sportier path because I thought that’s what new moms do and that’s what I need to be doing. It’s about finding a way of still being you in those environments that you find yourself in often, without feeling the need to adhere to everybody else. You do want to feel comfortable, but it’s like how do you work out your style code for that environment rather than feeling like you need to fit in or blend in? None of my friends are super fashion-y, so I never want to go around my friend’s house in something they’re going to be like, oh, you’re tying a silk scarf around your waist. They’d be like, what are you doing? But is there a way I could maybe tie it around my neck and it would feel more me but still comfortable? It’s finding ways to be in environments where you feel comfortable and like you’re expressing yourself.
Maureen: I’m smiling because this is the reason I started the show and my blog. My ever-present desire to do what everyone else is doing and trying to fight against that, understanding there’s a very social, biological reason we want to dress like other people, but also acknowledging there are limits to that and we can feel suffocated or disconnected from ourselves when we go too far down that rabbit hole. It’s nice to hear that you struggle with that sometimes too.
Anna: I think everyone does, especially when you go through a big life change or you move or have a career change. Something happens and you have to relearn yourself and relearn how your style fits into that. That happens to everybody multiple times in their lives. It’s not like once you’ve figured it out, you never have to figure it out again. That’s not the case. But it does feel good when it clicks into place. When you start a new job and think, this is the kind of outfit I want to wear to this job. Or when I’m at the park and I’ve got my new rain boots on and I’m layered up with my Uniqlo Pufftech jacket actually keeping me warm, I’m like, oh, I feel good right now.
Maureen: I have a question about the Pufftech. I’ve always wondered about this. When you get to your destination, if you’re indoors, do you take the puff off and put it in your bag?
Anna: Yeah, and it’s a real conversation piece. You take it off and people go, oh, is that from Uniqlo? It is. It is from Uniqlo. I wore it to London the other day and I actually ended up getting quite hot. It comes with a little bag, but I hadn’t brought the bag with me. It’s so small, I literally just rolled it in my hands into a ball and put it in my bag. I think I might even have put it in my pocket.
Maureen: The reason I ask is where I live, that is the outerwear because it’s warmer here. To me, that’s not my outerwear of choice. I would think of it more as innerwear. I was just curious what your take on that was.
Anna: I would personally whip it off. My husband would rock it and look great, that’s totally his vibe. I would personally take it off. But it is quite funny when you take it off. You’re just like an onion shedding your layers. You’ve got so many layers on.
Maureen: I could have used that back in college when I had this paper-thin black trench coat that I wore for an hour bus ride and then a 15-minute walk to a job interview. I’m freezing cold and I’m like, cutting us to Puffetech.
Anna: I think it’s something we have to learn. My mom is now so happy that I’m wearing practical clothes because for years she was like, you’re cold. You’re cold. And I’d say, no, I’m not cold. I was freezing. Now I finally have some thick layers in my wardrobe.
Maureen: Well, I’m happy to hear that. We can grow in all sorts of different ways. I’ll just finish up with this. We all turn to you for advice, but what advice would you give to someone who is trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Anna: I feel like I’m going to be a broken record and repeat myself because this has been a common topic of everything we’ve spoken about today. We all sometimes need to search for inspiration. Everyone, even the top stylists in the world, are finding inspiration in different places from different platforms. But when you’re looking for it, try to find inspiration that naturally fits somewhere within your lifestyle.
For me, I’m looking for work-from-home outfits. I’m looking for more practical outfits for pickup, drop-off, those casual errand moments. I’m not looking at party wear. I’m not looking at super chic London style. I go to London maybe once a week or once every two weeks. It’s not something happening on repeat for me. So trying to search out inspiration that feels realistic for you is a really good starting point.
Otherwise you’re going to end up with a mood board that doesn’t align with your lifestyle at all. Or maybe you do find things that don’t align with your lifestyle, but you’re looking at the shapes and the colors and different elements rather than thinking you need to recreate that outfit piece by piece. That’s been a big game changer for me. Substack has been a really good place for that because it’s full of real women showing their real outfits that actually work on a daily basis. I save them all in my Indyx collections folder and if I’m ever feeling dry, I’ll have a look through and see how someone’s put that jumper with those jeans and that jacket and think, I’ve got similar pieces that can work in that way. That has been such a game changer because I’m putting outfits on and they work, rather than trying to dress up. I’m actually repeating one of my most-read Substacks, which is why do we keep buying clothes for lives that we don’t have?
Maureen: That’s a good post. I’ll link that. Absolutely, if someone somehow missed that one.
Anna: Thank you. Yeah, that’s a good one.
Maureen: Thanks, Anna. I have a job to do. I’m going to update my Pinterest board. I’ve been working on it, but I’m probably going to call a couple of things out. It’s time. Realistic inspiration has been a real source of cracking my personal style and getting dressed every day in a way that feels relatively easy.
Well, this was so fun, which I’m not even remotely surprised by. You’re such a delight. And for how successful you are, you always manage to be very yourself and fun and enjoyable. So thank you for chatting with me and sharing your wisdom and your experience. I just really enjoyed this.
Anna: Thank you. That has made my day. Thank you.
Maureen: There’s going to be links in there, but where can listeners find you?
Anna: You can find me over on Substack at The Wardrobe Edit. I also share quite a lot of style stuff over on Instagram. I have about 16 years’ worth of YouTube archives. If you ever fancy knowing what I looked like at 20, you can go find me there. That’s over at The Anna Edit. I think that’s everything.
Maureen: And some great vlogs.
Anna: Very, very old vlogs out there if that’s your thing.
Maureen: I’ll make sure that’s all linked in the show notes. Thank you so much, Anna!
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.
Episode 27. How to build a foundational wardrobe, with Irene Kim (김애린)
Friday, February 20, 2026 • Duration 45:31
This week, I’m delighted to share this interview with stylist extraordinaire, Irene Kim (김애린)! You’ve probably pinned an image of her to your Pinterest board and definitely read one of her incredible posts here on Substack. Enjoy this wide-ranging and personal conversation. We chat about everything from shopping pragmatically, to Korean body culture, to how Irene coaches her clients.
Enjoy!
Transcript
Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is personal stylist, Canadian in Paris, and extremely generous cool girl, Irene Kim (김애린). Irene is an OG in the fashion Substack world with iconic reads starting back in 2023, such as the five questions she asks herself when shopping. Since then, she’s continued to share glimpses into her real life, including how she styles herself for events ranging from glamorous photo shoots at the Musée Rodin to school drop-off. Though through it all, she manages to stay real and aspirational. Irene, welcome to the show.
Irene: Thanks so much for having me, Maureen. So lovely to be here and meet you.
Maureen: Likewise. So looking through your archive, it’s very clear to me that you are an extremely creative dresser, fearlessly turning lace napkins into a miniskirt or hocking a brooch and a shoelace into a bolo tie, and even layering windbreakers under blazers, which is recent. I love that one. Trying imaginative combinations can be really daunting. Personally, I can feel fear looking silly or too crafty. How do you know when some creative combination that you have matches your taste level?
Irene: Oh, that is such a tough question. Because the answer is really, it just feels right. You know, I’ll just know when that’s too much or that’s too slim or that’s too baggy or that’s too much color or the eye’s moving too many places. So if I had to really break it down—and I think I have done that in a Substack—what’s going through is like just the checklist. It’s like an automatic checklist going down. Yeah, that proportion doesn’t work there, or that’s a little too slim there, or like that’s too much nylon and not enough natural fabric. You know what I mean? It just keeps going and going. So it’s sort of, after all this time, has come a bit automatic to me what level is okay. And I actually want to say, because I’m not saying that what I find okay to me is okay—it should be okay for everyone—because there’s people out there whose style I admire that I’m just like, if I put that on, I would be like, this is way, way too much. But it’s so clearly their baseline and they’re so clearly rocking it that I’m like, all power to them. Obviously, their checkpoints are different than mine, right?
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Episode 26. What working in fashion teaches you, with Evonne Sturm
Friday, February 13, 2026 • Duration 40:14
This week, I’m delighted to share this interview with Evonne Sturm! She’s a fashion-industry veteran who really caught my eye through her beautiful weaving of industry knowledge with her personal narrative. We chat all about how working in fashion has taught her about clothing, how she finds her signature eyewear, and more!
Make sure to subscribe so you’re notified when upcoming episodes with Irene Kim (김애린), and Anna Newton drop! Can’t wait.
Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is Evonne Sturm, fashion industry veteran. And her Substack, Musings of a Merchandiser, is a fun glimpse into the fashion machine, where she integrates personal narrative into deep dives on industry trends, both consumer-led and brand-led. Evonne, welcome to the show.
Evonne: Thanks for having me, Maureen. I’m really excited to be here.
Maureen: I’m excited to talk. You know, whenever I have a guest that’s in industry—that’s not my experience whatsoever—I really like to start out talking about how working in fashion has impacted your personal style and the way you dress. Understanding, of course, that you don’t necessarily have a frame of reference for what it might be like otherwise. But I’m curious if you can think of any memorable moments where working in fashion really impacted your taste or the way that you were dressing.
Evonne: Sure, it’s actually a great question to start. So I would say working in fashion inevitably changes just how you see clothing in general. You really start to notice construction before color, fabrication before fit. And over time, I’ve really kind of stopped chasing trends and started just really chasing a feeling. I know silhouettes that make me feel really pulled together and which ones make me feel like I’m playing dress up.
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Episode 25. Can analytical be intuitive? with Anika Krueger
Friday, February 6, 2026 • Duration 44:14
After an unexpected few month break due to debilitating health issues, I’m delighted to be back with a fantastic episode featuring Anika Krueger! I’m biased, but especially excited to share this episode as Anika is not only a great writer, but actually a listener of this very podcast—as such, very qualified to weigh in on the concept of “intuitive dressing”. We also discuss her great series Style Notes, what’s on her do-not-buy list, and more.
Enjoy!
Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style.I’m Maureen McLennon Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.
Today’s guest is Anika Krueger, writer of NO WARDROBE. Anika is an uber-stylish corporate girly by day, personal stylist by night. We love her style analyses and the way that she makes high street look high end.
Anika, welcome to the show.
Anika: Hi, Maureen. Thank you so much for having me. So glad to get to talk to you.
Maureen: You’ve such an early supporter of the concept of intuitive style and of the podcast, and just in general the idea of intuitive dressing. I would just love to hear from you—what is your definition of what it means to dress intuitively? What does this concept mean to you and how does it show up in your life?
Anika: I think it’s so funny because I feel like from the outside my personal style doesn’t appear intuitive at all. It’s really minimal. I dress with a really limited color palette and very few details. My style is defined by clean lines, neutral tones, and really simple silhouettes.
I feel like most people associate intuitive style with really playful, experimental, expressive looks, but that’s so not me. And I feel like the same applies to my home and my lifestyle. Everything is really minimalist—my apartment is really simple, really uncluttered, and filled only with things that make sense to me.
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Episode 24. Rambling in [Intuitive] Style, with Traci Landy
Friday, October 31, 2025 • Duration 39:13
Head’s up—there won’t be an episode next week but don’t worry, we have amazing episodes coming up, including with Anika Krueger, Lindsay Sword and more folks you won’t want to miss!
Today’s guest is Traci Landy of Rambling in Style. Traci shares her experience as a college athlete, discovering her creative-side as an adult, and what she’s trying to say with her clothing. Enjoy!
Episode Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Welcome
Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen McLennon Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.
Today’s guest is Traci, writer of Rambling in Style on Substack. Traci launched into the scene in the spring and has been lighting up our feeds ever since. And in addition to writing about style, she’s a full-time school teacher and parent. I love her extremely relatable angle as a fellow self-taught personal style enthusiast. I think this is really important kind of representation. Traci, welcome to the show.
Traci: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. I’m excited to chat with you.
Maureen: One thing I appreciate about your writing is your flexibility and the way that you allow yourself to kind of go where the vibe takes you. So for example, your post about palate cleansers, which aside from being a great lesson in slowing down, also touched on rule breaking. Specifically, you had planned out a handful of outfits and ended up dressing very differently. So what is that decision-making process like, planning outfits and staying flexible?
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Episode 23. How color helped me reclaim confidence, with Lee Alisha
Friday, October 24, 2025 • Duration 29:35
This week, Lee Alisha of Wearing on My Mind joins to share about her experience returning to self-confidence after loss and the role of bright color in showing her transformation! We also celebrate Lee’s recent completion of an MFA, discuss why writing on Substack is a breath of fresh, and how she decides what to buy and wear.
Enjoy!
Episode Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Welcome
You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen McLennon Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.
Maureen: Today’s guest bounded onto my Substack feed with joy, enthusiasm, and bright color. While she might be slightly newer to our Substack feeds, she’s been making style and beauty content on Instagram for a minute, which is equally as delightful as her writing style. Lee, welcome to the show.
Lee: Thank you so much. Thank you for that introduction. It’s so sweet.
Maureen: I love seeing a new creator come on to Substack and just have such a clear perspective, POV, and you certainly accomplished that.
Lee: Thank you.
Maureen: So with that, my first introduction to you was a post about your experience wearing vibrant colors over the summer and how that improved your self-esteem. For anyone who hasn’t read that newsletter yet, what changed and encouraged you to start showing up in that way?
Lee: So I was actually maybe like a month and a half ago just looking through my camera roll and I noticed that most of my summer outfits—anytime I took a photo—it was some vibrant color or print. And I was like, I need to write about this because I didn’t realize how happy it was making me and how comfortable I felt in all those vibrant colors and everything.
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Episode 22. Who gets to be a tastemaker, with Ofelia of All the Above
Friday, October 10, 2025 • Duration 48:47
We’re in the middle of season two and there’s so much good yet to come! Upcoming episodes include fellow writers Lee Alisha, Traci Landy, and Anika Krueger— I cannot wait for you to hear them!
Make sure you’re subscribed so you get notified when upcoming episodes drop, and consider sharing with someone you think would enjoy the show!
Today’s episode features tastemaker, Parisian style enthusiast, film photographer, and all-around cool girl (who’s also really kind) OFELIA. We get into the differences between film and fashion, what it means to be a tastemaker, how dressing in Paris is different from dressing in Austin, and more. Enjoy!
Episode Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Welcome
You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen McLennon Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.
Today’s guest is OFELIA, writer of All The Above on Substack. She has a discerning eye for fashion, film photography, and vibes. You’ve probably come across her What’s Everyone Wearing in Paris series, or my personal favorite, Outfits Inspired by Film, featuring her original images. Best of all, she’s a self-proclaimed outfit repeater and looks great while doing it. Ofelia,
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Episode 21. Staying joyful, with Cara Wengen
Friday, October 3, 2025 • Duration 53:55
Today’s episode is a fun one, featuring a very popular content creator on Instagram—who may be less well known on Substack. She’s a real treat. Enjoy!
Episode Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Welcome
You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen McLennon Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.
Today’s guest is Cara Wengen, aka plus size Zoë Kravitz, which is obviously iconic. She’s a big thrifter, works in an art gallery, major, and has the best taste in music. Welcome to the show, Cara.
Cara: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here.
Maureen: Likewise, I’m excited to talk to you. You just kind of recently barreled in, in the absolute best way, through my Instagram feed. And I was like—hold on, I need to know this person. She needs to come on the podcast. Everyone needs to know about what she’s doing. So I’m so glad that you said yes.
I’d just love to really kick us off with your content creation origin story. What got you to start posting your outfits online? I know it’s kind of a scary thing.
Cara: Yeah, so I think probably very similarly to many other people, I was just kind of scrolling. I don’t want to say addicted to TikTok, but using TikTok frequently and Instagram frequently and seeing these people who are getting PR sent to them—like free stuff.
And I was like, mail is so cool in general. Like when you get a personalized letter, you’re like, this is awesome. Imagine getting clothing that you like sent to you or shoes or jewelry. And I was like, I want that to happen to me. So for that reason alone, I was like, I’m just going to start posting.
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Episode 20. How to get comfortable with uncertainty, with Harriet Hatfield
Friday, September 26, 2025 • Duration 52:30
The second episode of season two is here! Enjoy this episode with Harriet Hadfield.
Episode Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Welcome
You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen McLennon Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.
Today’s guest is Harriet Hadfield, the writer of Harry Styles—that name!—on Substack. As an early One Direction fan, you know what I mean. You know her from her nuanced, vulnerable writing about career transitions and mental health challenges, just as much as her playful and creative styling suggestions. Or perhaps you’ve seen her extensive backlog of makeup tutorials or journal making on her YouTube channel, Harry Makes it Up. However you’ve met her, you are sure to have loved her. Harry, welcome to the show.
Harriet: My gosh, that intro was like the most lovely thing ever. I’m like, can you just send me that so can put that in like a happy book?
Maureen: I will print it out, I’ll hand write a note. You can keep it wherever.
Harriet: So lovely. Thank you so much Maureen.
Maureen: You wrote it yourself, you did all those things. So you made it easy.
Well, I wanted to start off by referencing your recent undercover work, a post that you put up on Substack, where you identified some themes and what folks on the East side of LA are wearing, which anyone that’s been following you for a minute would see that it’s a little bit different from your typical style. There’s lots of color. And, I just thought that was really fun because you reinterpret those looks with your own clothes. So I would just love to hear like, how did you come up with that idea? And just tell me, was it so fun to write?
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Episode 19. Honoring what you want, with Aastha of Fit Happens
Friday, September 19, 2025 • Duration 42:49
Intuitive Style podcast is back and better than ever!
I took a break over the summer to rest, rejuvenate, and overhaul my recording method from top-to-bottom! We’re talking: new backdrop, haircut, logo, audio-set-up and even a new theme song created specifically for the show! While working a full-time job and continuing to write this newsletter. So when I say I took a break, I am speaking aspirationally.
That said, we have an exciting series ahead with episodes featuring Substack gems Harriet Hadfield, and OFELIA (and way more!) plus a few new faces you’ll be sure to love.
Despite my best attempts, this podcast continues to be 100% reader supported. If you enjoy what we’re doing here, please consider sharing with someone you think would love the show so we can get the word out!
Onto the show…
Episode Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Welcome
Welcome back to Season 2 of the Intuitive Style Podcast!
I'm Maureen McLennon Welton. I can't wait for you to see these episodes. I think it's going to be a fabulous season, kicking off with our guest today, Asta / Aastha. This is a great conversation. I think you're really going to enjoy getting to know her a little bit better.
And this podcast is entirely community supported. So please consider liking, sharing, subscribing, and really just getting the word out there so that more people can find this show.
And without further ado, let's get into the episode!
You're listening to , where we believe that everyone has style. I'm Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.
Get full access to Intuitive Style at
Maureen: I think one of the things I heard in what you said or your answer is that it’s become automatic, but that doesn’t mean that it was always automatic—this idea of knowing what was your level of comfort or how far to go. Does that feel correct?
Irene: Oh, gosh. Would that feel correct? Because I’m trying to bring myself back to when I was like in my teens and I did so much experimenting then. And no, I still think I had it then. I just have different materials now, you know? I think a lot of experimentation was at that time, and even now, is born out of creative drive, yes, but also necessity, right? Because I don’t know what’s going on with kids these days, but when I was younger, like, if I got a shirt from Gap, like that was like Christmas, you know? Like there was nothing fancy about what we were buying. So it was a lot of, you know, I went thrifting and I just put stuff together in all these different ways. And I’ve already lost track of your original question. Has it always been there or has it evolved? I guess it’s refined itself over time. It’s just different than when I was younger, I guess. Because I loved my outfits then too.
Maureen: That makes sense because you were still getting dressed back then, presumably. So if we have a calibration of good enough to leave the house, you know what I mean?
Irene: Yeah.
Maureen: The thesis of this podcast is that we make better style decisions when we listen to our intuition. So what role does intuition play in your life or your personal style?
Irene: Right. So I just feel like when I get dressed and I try to look like the people that I admire for their clear appearance, their clear aesthetic, their very clear look, I just never feel right. It just never feels right to me. And ultimately, I go back to kind of the basics that I always love to wear no matter what. And sometimes, you know, I look at some of my everyday outfits because I feel like your everyday outfits are kind of like—that’s the core. Like, you know, that’s who you are in a way. Sometimes I think, oh, you know what? What if I made my everyday outfits a little bit more directional and made it more like this designer or that designer? But that’s just not me. Like every time there is a little… I kind of lean back a little bit into prep, androgyny. That’s always going to have some sort of base in how I dress. So I just can’t move away from that. And there’s no point in trying. I’m always going to go back that way.
Maureen: That’s amazing. And I totally get that. I think what I heard from that is we can’t force ourselves to have a personal style that’s different from what we want to wear on our bodies. We can have aesthetic preferences that we like in theory, but we can’t force those to actually work for our everyday life or what we choose to wear. Is that kind of right?
Irene: Yeah, no, that’s exactly right and far more articulate than I said it. No, no, nothing like that. No, I mean, I get it. I’m trying to force myself to be this, like, you know—and I don’t mean it to sound so strong—but I was really intrigued by Simone Rocha and super inspired by sheer volume. There are definitely ways that I can still incorporate it, but I had this vision this summer of just totally transforming my style in this totally new direction and wearing more black. And then I go into stores and I try on a black bag with my outfit that I like the rest of, and I’m like, oh, it’s still not me, is it? So I get that, you know?
Maureen: The thing is, though, the beauty about clothes is that you can wear that, right? Like per day, a week, whatever.
Irene: It reminds me of actually when I started getting a bit more traction on social media and I was thinking like, oh, maybe I should start publishing things that are a bit more polished and produced because mine isn’t at all. And I just thought, you know, how long am I able to keep that up? And I realized I could keep that up for like a week tops. I could do like one polished, produced post and then I’d call it a day because it’s just not me, you know? And so for me to have to put in that mental effort, truly, to dress in a way that’s not comfortable to me day in and day out—apart from your occasional event or your fun dress-up thing—it’s just not going to happen.
Maureen: Great analogy. I get it. As a fellow writer, the polished stuff is hard to achieve. One of your early posts about questions to ask yourself when considering making a new purchase, you ask, does the garment take you places in your imagination? So my question to you is, can you think of any garments that you’ve bought that take you somewhere in your imagination?
Irene: Oh, I have so many. So many. However, do I wear those every day? No. But I have a lot, yeah, for sure. Just like you were talking about the Simone Rocha piece. Yeah. I love getting dressed. But if I’m going to buy it, I mean, that’s the part of the five questions I ask myself when shopping. There is a love component, of course, to everything. But then, of course, there’s the need component. And then there’s can I actually afford it? There’s like practicalities of actually shopping. So yeah, my whole closet isn’t filled with that. But certainly there’s some there.
Maureen: Yeah. What about your purple skirt that’s kind of like—is it sheer? It’s like a lilac—
Irene: Oh, the Cecilie Bahnsen skirt? Sure, yeah.
Maureen: Yeah. Is it like a piece—I think it’s beautiful—that piece feels like one that would take me somewhere in my imagination. Does it do the same for you?
Irene: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you were mentioning Simone—like Simone and Cecilie are very similar in terms of aesthetic, and I love that ethereal vibe. And even though this is how I rock out in the world every day, I can absolutely throw that on with this sweater and it’ll still work, right? And so that’s ways that I can bring that kind of beauty into my life. And there are, again, other people who are able to do that every day. I just can’t. Not practical for my lifestyle.
Maureen: So when I think about that skirt, like I’m transported to like a woodland meadow with like dappled sunlight traveling through the treetops. Where does it take you?
Irene: So basically my friend who is a photographer, she has photographed me for various things—family things, other things—and she knows like my favorite scene is like carelessly just running through golden fields. That is like freedom to me. I don’t know what it is. It’s just warm. It could even be fall. It could even be misty. But just bouncing through grass, just wide open—that’s like when I think of happiness, that’s what I think of.
Maureen: Wow. You know, I can see that skirt doing well in a field.
Irene: Right? I’m sure they’ve had plenty of Cecilie photo shoots in fields like that, like really moody fields.
Maureen: Incredible. Maybe with some muck boots.
Irene: Exactly, exactly.
Maureen: We started to talk a little bit about how you decide what to buy and where, with cost and love and need, et cetera. Can you think of any recent purchases that you made, or even broader than that, a little bit more how you decide what not to buy or where?
Irene: So I kind of categorize this into two groups just because I am a stylist and I work with like a really large range of people. So there’s people like me who have really mature closets, and I would have different guidelines for me than I would for somebody literally starting from scratch. To have such a high bar for somebody who has no clothes is like just too much extra pressure, I think, on a lot of people. So when people are like, oh, you should be buying secondhand or this costs too much or like no, you should only buy the best you can afford—like people just can’t take it. Like just get them dressed. Like really that’s what they need.
Where somebody like me, the bar is really high because I really have everything I need, or most things I need anyway. So yeah, I mean right now it really is—there can’t be a single reason why I don’t want to wear it. Literally, if the thing falls a little funny, it’s just an automatic no. It has to really pass all these tests. Like I have to love the color, I have to love how it feels on my skin, I have to love the cut, I love how it looks on my body. It has to be the right price, et cetera, et cetera. So that’s a high bar for me. For a client that has no clothes in their closet, I’m not going to be like, okay, you cannot buy a single pair of pants until it’s perfect. Like that’s just not sensible.
Maureen: That’s very healing for me to hear because last year I had to basically repurchase a lot of my clothes. Not even just last year, but like twice. Anyway, my body changed, and so I had to rebuy my clothes. And man, there is so much pressure in the fashion space—I personally felt like there was so much pressure to buy the right way, the perfect way. And I just needed clothes that I could wear to like… you just need clothes to feel good in. And I just remember feeling so frustrated by this narrative that there’s only one right way to shop. And I just appreciate the way you just delineated like, yes, for a certain subset of people it’s really important and good to have high standards. But if you are in the midst of what is arguably—if you have no clothes to wear—there’s probably something else going on in your life that is already hard. And so trying to put the pressure of doing it perfectly on top of that… yeah, I just appreciate you saying that because I could have heard it a year and a half ago.
Irene: Well, I’m telling you now. I think it’s really hard because I really bite my tongue a lot of times when I read things on Substack or social media because people only have like one line to get their point across and to capture people’s attention. So obviously it lacks a lot of nuance. But yeah, I’ve done this for like 15 years and I work with just normal people, right? So I know the huge chasm of life experience. There’s a big spread of what’s going on in people’s lives. I read something the other day and somebody wrote like, who’s buying Aritzia coats when you can buy them on Poshmark for this and this? And I was like, totally respectfully, I get your point, but there’s people who don’t have time to shop, people who don’t know that secondhand is an option, people who know it’s an option but don’t know where to look. There’s people who don’t fit into Aritzia. There’s like a million people who don’t fit into what is on its face a very reasonable thing to say. But underneath it all, it’s quite nuanced.
Maureen: Yeah. It can be well-intentioned, but I think sometimes we need to take those things with a grain of salt.
Irene: Yeah, for sure.
Maureen: You had mentioned when you’re thinking about a new item, if it falls a little bit strangely, that would be a reason that you’re like, okay, there’s no reason I need to buy this. But what about like body awareness or how things fit or the way that different textures lay, things like that? How does the feeling of clothing, rather than necessarily what you see in the mirror, how does the feeling impact what you decide to buy or wear?
Irene: A hundred percent now. I mean, I would have let that go 10 years ago. Frankly, I would have let that go like three years ago—no, five. But I can’t take it anymore. If it’s itchy or like there’s a certain type of polyester that just makes my skin crawl, I can’t wear it. I don’t want to. And I can afford to be that picky at this stage, right? Again, if you’re somebody who doesn’t have any clothes in their closet, you might be less picky. But even at that stage and price point, I probably could find you something that feels better on your body than something that you really hate. So yeah.
Maureen: And what changed for you going from being willing to put up with it to not?
Irene: What changed for me? Let me think. This was like maybe five years ago. Most of the stuff I’m referring to is like, you know, Zara, fast fashion stuff. I didn’t buy a ton of it to begin with, but I just started getting pickier, I guess. And I think when that happens for people, it changes. My client base tends to start at 35. Occasionally I’ll get kids with their parents—teenagers or 20-year-olds—but mostly it’s 35. And in your 20s, that’s when you’re experimenting with stuff. So the top priority isn’t, oh, it feels great. You want the look, you want the style. But I think it’s pretty standard across the board that as you get a bit older, these things start to matter more. No big life change other than that.
Maureen: Yeah. I think I started a little young on that. I’ve always been hypersensitive to how clothing feels on my body. And I’ve always questioned like, how do people put up with this? Like I don’t get it. I’m 30 now. I’ve never had the threshold to be able to wear something uncomfortable, but that’s just me.
Irene: Do you mean uncomfortable like fabric or uncomfortable like sitting on your body?
Maureen: Mostly fabric, because that’s different. Like, okay, yeah, okay. I’m a highly sensitive person. It is my burden to bear, but I get it.
What is exciting you in fashion right now or in style?
Irene: Oh. You know, it’s funny. I think I may have written that nothing has really excited me in a while. I’m not even old—I’m only 45—but I’ve been around enough to see a lot. I’ve seen like three-ish good decades of fashion and cycles. And so right now, nothing feels super new to me. But that doesn’t mean it’s not exciting. It’s just still fun to get dressed.
Irene: Right now, I cannot keep up with the external stimulation and new input because I’m in a new city. It’s like too much. Like I can’t handle it—in a good way. So I’m still trying to process the fact that, okay, I’ve moved to Paris. There’s just so much for me to process and understand. And so that’s what’s exciting me.
Maureen: Let’s talk about that. When you go to bed at night, what are you looking forward to in the morning of being able to do in Paris that you weren’t able to do in Canada?
Irene: Okay, so not to disappoint, because my friend called me and was like, “Oh my God, your kids get home at five and that still leaves some time for you guys to do some sightseeing.” I’m like, listen, when my kids get home… I mean, no, I’m still living a normal life. I still have a husband and kids who go to school. So I’m still working through the day, trying to get a workout in, and the kids come home and then I’m doing homework and then I’m preparing dinner. So it’s still very much—for anybody who has FOMO—I’m just in a different location.
But obviously there is a lot more access to fashion. The people dress differently here. I’m constantly staring at what people are wearing, how people are wearing it, people’s relationship to fashion. Brands that I can’t see at home, I’m trying to discover them here. The huge vintage ecosystem that they have—I can’t stop. Every single day I try to find something new. I’ve only been here since the start of the school year, so that’s like three-ish months. I haven’t even nicked the surface.
Maureen: Well, that already just sounds exciting. Just having a whole new playing field to engage with, even if it’s only in slivers of the day.
What advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Irene: So I usually start people off with a foundational wardrobe, and those are like the core pieces that you reach for every day that you feel good in and you know you can make an outfit with. Because I find a lot of people get all of these incredible pieces or these pieces that they love, but it makes no sense when you try to put it together.
And what those pieces are—they’re always going to be, unless you really love dresses—like four or five pants, right? There’s always going to be like 12 to 20 tops. But the shape of those, the color of those, the style of those—that’s where your intuitive style comes in.
Again, I’m generalizing because not everyone wears jeans, but let’s say most people wear jeans. Some people will reach for a skinny straight jean all the time. That will be the backbone of the outfit. That will never be me. You will not see a skinny straight jean in my wardrobe. I will always have some sort of barrel pant shape in my wardrobe that I would reach for before that. So that becomes my foundational bottom because I feel good in it. That feels comfortable to me.
So when you’re building your foundational wardrobe, when I’m building it with somebody, I really make sure I take a temperature check of how they feel about this piece. Because I’m not going to say, okay, ideally you have bottoms that are sort of different shapes, some are jeans, some are pants, some are this—but I’m not going to dictate what they are without substantial input from you. If you tell me something that I feel like is not going to be very practical or versatile or functional, I will tell you. But generally speaking, people know what’s going on. So I trust them to tell me. So yeah, start with the foundation.
Maureen: I love your post on that, by the way. I unlocked your membership for it.
Irene: Oh, thank you.
Maureen: And then I know you have an idea of the additional layer on top of that. Can you talk about that really quickly?
Irene: It’s like the—oh, I think you have a post on adding in statement pieces.
Maureen: Yes.
Irene: So once you have your foundation, right? And the foundation—I think I put in there that it was like 40-ish pieces. It could be 20. It could be 60. Nobody’s limiting you. But my point there was that I have those Cecilie Bahnsen skirts and the yellow ruffled sleeveless sash top and all these crazy things.
And I think what we were talking about before with the five questions—do I love them? Does it take me places? Do I need it? Less so for statement pieces. Can I afford it? Is it a reasonable purchase? Right? So sometimes I think—I always go back to the Totême coat example—I might love it, I might need it, I could technically afford it, but does it make sense for me to buy it? Does it make sense for me to buy a $3,000 coat when I can get something kind of similar for $400? For me, the answer would be no. For some other people, the answer would be yes. That’s very much a personal call.
Maureen: Yeah, totally. So those questions that you have about needing, loving, wanting—are those more geared toward those statement pieces? And then the questions that you have for the foundations are a little bit different? Or am I misunderstanding?
Irene: No, it’s totally the same. I think I actually wrote in the “love” bucket—I subdivided it to people like me who really, really need to keep the bar high. Whereas people who are building a wardrobe, I said, don’t kill yourself if you don’t love a basic gray sweater. Just make sure there’s not something wrong with it in the sense that you don’t like how it feels on your body or you don’t like how it falls. You don’t have to love a basic gray sweater. It is a basic piece. So yeah, but the rest of it applies. Do you need it? Is it functional for your lifestyle? Can you afford it? Et cetera, et cetera.
Maureen: Have you ever had a moment where what you wore transformed how you felt in your body, either positively or negatively? And what did that teach you?
Irene: Well, there’s a few positive things, I guess. I remember putting on a sari once, and I felt like—so you know how a sari has that blouse or chemise? It’s super tight and it forces your shoulders back like this. And I was like, oh my God, I don’t think I’ve ever walked with such good posture in my life. And it just made me realize we’re all walking like this everywhere.
And I remember once, a year after I gave birth to my second son, I was in a bikini in Barbados. I had like the softest belly ever still because I was eating chips, ice cream, and wine every single night a year after pregnancy. And I remember feeling really liberated that I posted this picture online. I wasn’t—I just didn’t care. I made this baby and this feels great. So that was nice. That was nice. That didn’t last forever, for sure.
Maureen: What part didn’t last?
Irene: *Feeling good in a bikini. I have never, ever been able to wear one in public. It is so painful for me to do it.
Maureen: I don’t like it either. I never understand when folks say to younger people, “Just wear the bikini.” And I’m like, well, okay. It just takes me out of the moment. It doesn’t make me feel present. It makes me feel in my head. And I’m like, why do I have to wear the bikini?
Irene: You know, I’m from Korea where when you go to the beach, literally everyone is covered, covered fully in protective gear. I think part of it is modesty. And of course, if you go away somewhere like Malaysia, women are fully covered in the water. But here in France and Europe, it always amazes me. You could be 90 years old and completely—your skin is hanging everywhere. You could be a 50-year-old mom in full menopause bloat and they’re all wearing bikinis. Nobody is thinking twice about it. So it’s got to be something in how they were raised to feel like that is okay and acceptable as it is. For some of us, it’s extremely hard to do it.
Maureen: Let’s talk about that a little bit more. What is your context that you grew up in, and how did that influence the way that you view what is normal or okay for dressing?
Irene: So I grew up with parents—my mother in particular—she loved fashion. She was extremely stylish. She grew up in Korea in the 60s and 70s and she was an airline stewardess for Korean Airlines. So back then that was quite a glamorous job. She could go to Paris, she could go to Europe, which back then—South Korea was quite a poor country—that was quite a luxury. So that definitely influenced what I saw growing up in my household.
The flip side of that is that Koreans are very hard. I’m sure everybody’s gone down that TikTok rabbit hole—there’s a lot of plastic surgery, people are extremely thin naturally. So I also grew up being told, not necessarily by family, but even friends or relatives or just random strangers, like, “Oh, you’re just too big.” All the time. So I think by the time I was in my teens and early twenties, I hated going back to Korea because I knew that was coming. So I think that did take quite a toll on my self-esteem, for sure, and how I viewed my body.
Maureen: Yeah, it sounds like a culture of policing other people’s appearance, where other people’s appearance is something that is okay to comment on.
Irene: Oh, it’s 100% okay to comment on. There’s no question about it. I’m literally talking about I would answer the door and some of my aunt’s friends or the housekeeper would just be like, “Oh, you know, it’s time for your eyelid surgery.” Or, “If you lost 20 pounds, you could go for Miss Korea.” It was full on. I’m not exaggerating. And my family’s not even bad because they did not push me to get surgery. My immediate family never even uttered the word. But for everyone around me, it’s quite normal. Some parents—I have friends whose parents basically send their kids to Korea and say, “If you don’t get this, you can’t come home.” It is so ingrained in our mentality and in our culture.
Maureen: It sounds really hard.
Irene: When I hear myself say it to you, who’s not in the culture, I’m like, oh my God, that actually sounds crazy. But yeah, I guess I’ve normalized it internally.
Maureen: Every culture has their version of crazy. And what’s always hard about that kind of stuff is it’s these rules around what social connection can and should look like. The reason that it’s painful is that these rules of conduct prevent connection. You have to do this thing in order to come back and be in relationship with us. That’s what makes it so hard. It’s not just about what it means for us physically, but how it impacts every aspect of our position in society and in our families.
Irene: And to be fair, to your point, a lot of it is people just want to be beautiful. And they place a lot of value on looks. But my theory is that there’s such a push because of how important marriage is—or was—in Korea. I mean, we now have the lowest birth rate in the world because nobody wants to put up with that BS anymore. But I think it was so concentrated in my late teens to my mid-twenties because those were the prime years. Those were the prime years where I would find a man and make sure I was taken care of. They were sort of taking care of me to make sure that I was doing the right things for myself so I would get married. And literally, as soon as I got engaged, nobody talks to me about it anymore. Starting at like 28—nobody cares. You’re getting married. We’ve done our job. That’s it.
Maureen: Yeah. Wow. That’s crazy. Does seeing it that way make it more or less painful?
Irene: That’s my theory anyway.
Maureen: I mean, I believe you. Does seeing it that way make it more or less painful?
Irene: Yeah. I mean, I understand because I think about our history as a country and our society and how important getting married is to establishing social standing, social credit, whatever. So I can see why that would be so pushed by so many parents and families of their young girls. So yeah.
Maureen: It sounds hard though. And also, you know, it is interesting what you’re saying about how the standards aren’t universal. Like I imagine that a size 8 or 10 in Korea is viewed differently than a size 8 or 10 in America. There’s no universal correct size. And I think that always helps me personally to be like, oh, this is all subjective anyway.
Irene: I mean, you could say that, except they kind of do have a standard. Everyone sort of whispers what the correct goal weight is. And the facts were that—let’s say 2002 is when I first remember it, though it could have continued later—but in 2002, I could not find anything larger than a size six in stores. It was impossible. So at that time, I think I was about a size eight or 10. I was in flea markets buying stretchy jeans and things like that. I’m sure the size ranges have increased since then, but back then, if you were outside of that, you were out of the norm enough that they didn’t cater to you in stores.
Maureen: Yeah. All I meant is the cutoff point here in the States would be—depending on the brand—what we call an extra large, a 12 or a 14, versus a six. The cutoff point is different. I’m not saying either one is okay or better, but mostly that the inherent subjectivity of where that cutoff is reminds me that it’s all BS. That doesn’t determine what size people’s bodies actually are. It’s just this idea of what they could or should be, and that’s subjective.
Irene: Yeah. This is way more emotional energy than I thought I would be spending in this interview because it’s bringing up all these memories. In a good way.
Maureen: In a great way. We don’t have to go there. It’s all good.
Irene: No, no, no. I am totally open to chatting about this stuff. Totally open to it.
Maureen: I have one last question, and I think this one should be more fun. How would you define your current relationship to clothes and style? What kind of phase are you in?
Irene: Hmm. I would say for the last two years I was sort of in this non-experimental phase. I didn’t really want to buy anything. I didn’t want to add anything. I wasn’t looking to change my style. And now that I’m here, there’s so much new inspiration that I can’t help it. But at the same time, I still think I’m in that phase where I’m kind of like, I’m making the changes I need to make because I can’t wear jogging pants here. I generally need to be a little bit more polished here than I am back at home. But other than that, I’m still in the “I have enough clothes” mindset. I don’t need to be Black Friday shopping for myself. Shopping for clients, yes. For myself, no.
And sometimes I still have FOMO. I was looking at the Net-A-Porter sale and thinking, oh God, that is just so chic. And then I’m like, do I really need that? I know I’m fine. And I keep coming back to that. When I see a really cool influencer wearing something, I’m like, oh, I wish I had that aesthetic. And then I’m like, nah. I’m good. I’m good. So that’s where I’m at. I’m just happy where I am.
Maureen: Do you get to live vicariously through your clients?
Irene: Yeah. I think there’s something interesting—you know how people say you can tell somebody’s job at fashion week by how they’re dressed? A lot of the people who aren’t influencers, like buyers or editors, they’re just dressed normally, but very chic. Because we spend all day in fashion—looking at fashion, buying fashion—that sometimes we just don’t have the brain power to style ourselves in some elaborate way. We just want to dress in a way that feels good and comfortable.
Maureen: I get that. Well, thank you, Irene. This was amazing. Where can listeners find you?
Maureen: Fantastic. I’ll make sure those are linked in the show notes. Thank you so much.
Irene: Thanks so much, Maureen. I had such a great time.
Maureen: I had a great time getting to know you.
Irene: Thank you.
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
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I would say probably the most memorable moment happened pretty early in my career back at Macy’s—not to age myself, but over 15 years ago—when I got a first real look kind of behind the curtain. How every decision from fabric quality to button to style to hem finish really came with a cost implication and a trade-off. It’s incredibly mind-blowing when you realize how much goes into the make of a single garment. And then once you’ve seen that, you cannot unsee it, especially as a merchandiser. I think about it literally 24 hours a day, whether I’m at work or whether I’m shopping personally.
Maureen: Yeah. So, I mean, as a recovering perfectionist, I see so much detail in every purchase that I make. You know, I was just looking at some shirts and I was like, some of these buttons are white on navy. And then the plum version has plum-colored buttons and I much prefer that. Like, how do you handle that level of detail that you must see when you’re shopping? Does it ever get in the way or do you feel like it’s an asset?
Evonne: It’s both an asset and it always gets in the way. Yeah, like I said, it’s just inevitable. I’m a curious person by nature too, and I just can never turn it off. And sometimes I have to realize, okay, you came out not for work, you came out for yourself. So once I’m able to switch that mindset off—and it almost rarely happens—sometimes it comes back full force when I look at the price tag on the garment. Like, really? And then I look at where the garment’s made. I’m like, really? It just kind of constantly snowballs.
Maureen: I want to know a little bit more about what you mean. So when you see the price tag, does that raise your standards, lower your standards?
Evonne: That’s a really interesting question. It honestly just kind of depends on the overall brand itself and your perceived value of it, and then kind of how it feels when you’re touching it, when you’re putting it on your body. So it really depends.
It’s a funny thing I think about, especially when I shop luxury items, because knowing how much the markup is on those things will blow your mind. But then you’ve got to take into consideration the craftsmanship and where it’s made. If you’re looking at a luxury handbag, the type of leather—all of those details come into play constantly.
Maureen: Yeah, yeah. What about working at—have you ever worked in office? Does the experience of dressing for a fashion office culture change how you might dress?
Evonne: Yes and no. I mean, I’ve been going into an office since the dawn of time, since the start of my career. And it definitely has fluctuated—how much I’m in office versus where we’ve all netted out after COVID. But early on in my career, the office etiquette or style has definitely evolved. Back when I worked at Macy’s, we were not allowed to wear denim—only on Fridays.
So, you know, you constantly had to be polished and presentable and never relaxed or in kind of almost like your weekend apparel. But since then, I mean, even just thinking about that over time, it seems wild that you were not allowed to wear jeans to the office other than Fridays. Now I think I wear jeans probably constantly. But there’s a way to dress them up and evolve them. So whether you’re putting them with a nice pair of heels or a nice pair of loafers, or you’re completely disregarding the jean in general and wearing a nice pair of pleated trousers—fashion has definitely evolved in the workplace. And I think there are so many brands now that take a new spin on it versus wearing the mundane, tried-and-true suit.
Maureen: Yeah, I totally forgot that when I first started working it was the same—like no jeans, or if you could wear jeans they had to be black. It was like a whole thing. And now it’s not even remotely on my mind. That’s so funny. Cool.
Evonne: Yeah. And even as I think—MACs at Bloomingdale’s back in the day, and I don’t know if this is still the case—but you always had to wear black on a market appointment if you were going anywhere. They almost had a set signature uniform. I’d be curious if any Bloomingdale’s people are out there in the universe—I’d love to know if the dress code has evolved or not.
Maureen: Yeah. Like a Sephora employee.
Evonne: Totally. Totally. Totally.
Maureen: One of the fun things about your newsletter in particular is the way you weave your personal narrative in with your industry expertise. For example, you had a really nice piece about eyewear—which of course you’re wearing a fabulous pair today—which you have a personal connection to beyond the trends. So I’d love to hear more about your personal connection to eyewear and how this became your signature.
Evonne: Totally. I have worn glasses since the third grade, so they’ve been part of me for a very, very, very long time. And my eyesight, believe it or not, has only gotten worse over time, which has, I think, really deepened my love for eyewear dramatically. It’s the one accessory that I truly need. And maybe that’s why I care about it so much.
It wasn’t until after college, when I started working and spending most of my day at a computer, that I thought about eyewear differently. It’s not just a necessity, but it’s really, as you said, a form of self-expression. Over time, my glasses definitely evolved into what I call my visual signature. I think of them the same way somebody would think of their favorite lipstick or their favorite jacket. They really anchor my look and they frame not only how I see the world—both literally and figuratively.
Evonne: I would say probably the biggest influence when it comes to eyewear is my deep, deep, deep love for Iris Apfel and her oversized signature frames. As they say, the bigger the frame, the closer to God, maybe. But with my small features, I really love the playfulness of an exaggerated shape.
Evonne: There was a place in New York that I would go to on the regular for my glasses. It’s where these are from—it’s from a brand called SEE Eyewear. I would come in every year or two because I needed a new prescription since my eyes got worse. The manager noticed that. We began to have a rapport, and I’d come in and he’d tell his sales associates, “Do not give her anything that isn’t oversized. She will just not touch it.” So they always knew to put aside the big, big frames for me because that’s always what I ended up buying. And I really think that because I’m short in size, the oversized frames not only amplify my voice, but they also help amplify my personality on a whole other level.
Maureen: That’s really cool. I love that perspective on it because there are so many different ways that we can think about our body and proportion. Sometimes there can be this idea that you want to match your proportions. But I love the idea of playing with—well, one, there’s no right or wrong answer, right? It’s all about personal preference. But I love the intentionality of “big because I’m small.” I think that’s really fun. And yeah, Iris is such an icon. What a legend. R.I.P.
And then when you are picking—so you know you want a bigger pair—how do you know when a pair is the right one for you?
Evonne: I don’t know. There’s just something that clicks. I can’t describe it. It’s like when you put on a pair of jeans and you’re like, oh man, everything about them fits me like a glove. It’s the same thing with eyewear.
I think in the past I used to gravitate toward bold color and maybe a little bit of a pattern. And I’ve tried to veer away from that more recently. I’ve really tried to play up my hair color and accentuate my eye color. I used to have a pair of really dark blue frames and I loved them, but they were such a contrast to my pale skin that it was actually too much. The over-exaggerated frame against my pale skin was not a good combo. So now I find myself gravitating toward rich browns and tortoiseshell because I think it helps frame my face even better with the coloring of my skin tone and my eyes.
Maureen: Yeah. No, I love that. I think that’s really fun. And also, you know, I always like to balance this idea of the analytical side with the intuitive side. Not that I really think they’re opposites, but I do think the word intentionality really speaks to the fact that we can have an idea of what we want going in and we can make an intentional choice to be like, “Yeah, the blue—I had enough experience with the blue and that particular shape on me to know that that doesn’t feel right anymore.”
It’s like you’re using experience to build your intuition versus just making an impulsive decision. It’s something that you have data on and you’re like, “Oh, well, that worked for a while,” or “I tried it out and now I want to do something different.” And that’s what helps us build that intuition—creating that data, making that model for ourselves about what does and doesn’t feel good, I think.
Evonne: Absolutely. And even to circle back to the first point about seeing behind the curtain and knowing how much things cost—I think one push and pull I definitely have with eyewear is the cost of it. I constantly have to remind myself that the cost per wear—even if the frame is expensive, and then I’ve got my lenses because I’m blind, which are even more expensive, and I like the bigger frame—so it’s a mashup of making sure the frame can hold the denseness of the lens, which inevitably causes the overall package to be more expensive.
It’s this push and pull. I’m like, “Oh, I really like the frame. It looks so good on my face,” but then the price tag—oh. However, I constantly have to remind myself that the cost per wear will literally pay for itself because I put them on the minute I get up in the morning to look at my phone, and I take them off literally the minute before I wash my face and go to bed. So if you think about the amount of hours in the day that I spend wearing them—who cares, really? I have to take off the sticker shock and settle in with the fact that I’m going to wear them 24/7, so it doesn’t matter.
Maureen: Well, this is totally anecdotal, but I have this feeling that when I was younger, glasses weren’t cool. But now glasses come in and out of being stylish just in general. Do you feel that that’s true? Have you experienced that?
Evonne: Absolutely. In the third grade, when I found out I had to get glasses, I bawled my eyes out. I was so deeply upset because I was afraid I was going to get made fun of and people were going to call me four eyes. The amount of nicknames that came up in my head—people judging me for having to wear glasses.
Because to your point, so many people now wear them, right? Back then it was almost taboo. You need them because you can’t do your work or you can’t see correctly—you’re impaired, literally. So it was constantly something I thought about growing up. But now, I don’t know—it’s part of my style. I’ve just fully leaned into it. And I love now that there’s so much variety in the market.
When I was younger, we went to the same eyeglass place. Because I was a kid and needed glasses, the amount of options was so limiting. I had maybe one or two choices to pick from, which I wasn’t excited about because the options were so narrow. That fed into the whole narrative of having to wear glasses. But now the options are endless—which is also a good thing and a bad thing, right? Because you have so much choice. But that’s what really makes it fun. You can get them from anywhere.
Maureen: You set up the perfect segue for the next question, which is how you decide what to buy or where—and how do you decide what not to buy or where? And this question was inherently more interesting for you anyway as a merchandiser. As we’ve talked about, you have all this information. But yeah, with all the options out there for what to buy and where, how do you decide? I personally find it overwhelming.
Evonne: It is overwhelming. You’re not alone. It’s even overwhelming for myself. But when I think about what I’m deciding to buy, it’s kind of like my earlier thought about glasses and cost per wear. It’s really about longevity and how many ways I can truly wear something. That’s what’s going to earn its keep in my closet. It’s not really about minimalism, but more about mindfulness in general.
The amount of times I spend hemming and hawing and having 80 tabs open before I decide whether I want to pull the trigger on something—it literally drives my husband insane. But I like to think of it as part of my Virgo-minded thought process. I’m not chasing quantity or even novelty. I’m really chasing that mix of comfort, quality, and clarity.
And then on the opposite side—what I decide not to buy—I’m very petite in frame. So the biggest driver for me is ensuring that the item really isn’t wearing me nine times out of ten.
Maureen: Yeah. Okay, well, using that analytical and feeling brain, how do you distinguish that? I can speak to this—I struggle with this. Not because I’m petite, but going back to the eyeglasses thing. The other day I was like, “Oh, I think it would be really cool to try out wearing some glasses. I’d like to add more structure to my look. I don’t love earrings. I just want to try something different.” So I tried on a bunch of glasses and I was like, “I think these are all wearing me.” So how do you know when something is wearing you versus when you are standing out? Especially when we think about oversized glasses—how do you know it feels right versus distracting?
Evonne: From a literal sense, if the fabric feels overwhelming on me, I’m literally drowning in it. That’s probably the biggest thing for me. A lot of pants are way too long. I also have a smaller chest. So I’m constantly looking at brands that show up well and can play to my strengths of being petite.
One of the brands that does this really well—although she’s on the pricier side—is Ulla Johnson. Her smaller size frame, I literally feel like, was made for me. It plays with proportion, it plays with shape, and I really gravitate toward things that accentuate that for me so the fabric first and foremost isn’t wearing me.
Even though I love oversized glasses and I love a puff sleeve and I play with exaggeration constantly in my wardrobe, I also have to make sure there’s balance. There could be a puff sleeve, but I’m wearing fitted trousers so that I’m not being swallowed whole by the garment. So it’s really about playing with proportion.
Maureen: Yeah, I think I’m curious what you think about this. Sometimes I think about it as, do you see me or do you see the clothes? Do you feel like there’s any aspect of that for you or a difference?
Evonne: I don’t really think so. I’ve always been someone who expresses myself in style. I’ve always had a knack for fashion—way, way, way before I decided to make a career of it. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been shopping with a girlfriend and they’re like, “Oh, I could never wear that. You could pull it off.” And I’m like, “But you can wear it. You just have to hold your head a little higher.”
You’ve got to have the confidence to feel like you can. Literally anyone, in my opinion, can wear anything as long as they hold their head high and have the confidence to wear it. I think anybody can wear anything. So I’ve never really been one to shy away from fashion, because if I feel confident and I feel good in it, it doesn’t really matter. I don’t really care what anyone else thinks. But I could be a very rare breed. That’s not normal for most people.
Maureen: No, I don’t disagree. I think a lot of people feel that way. I was mostly thinking about preferences. For me personally, as much as I love really flamboyant fashion, I don’t want to be overshadowed by it. That’s my only hesitation.
Evonne: Right.
Maureen: It’s not necessarily a confidence thing, but I think sometimes it’s just a preference of how you want to show up in the world. For some people, leading with the fashion is the most fun possible thing. And I think we just have different ways of experiencing clothes. I’m the kind of person that if you’re wearing something amazing, I’m the one who starts the conversation with, “Oh my God, your outfit’s amazing.” I’m receptive to that. I think we’re just different little puzzle pieces in the conversation, in different roles.
Evonne: Yeah, for sure.
Maureen: What about body awareness? What I mean by this is how does clothing’s texture, fit—how does any of that impact whether or not you connect with a garment or want to wear it?
Evonne: I think over the years there are definitely signature details that I gravitate toward. In silhouette—whether that’s a puff sleeve, whether that’s a ruffle, whether that’s a polka dot. Texture is a fun one. But again, it’s about finding potentially the right brand and the shapes that fit your mold, and then working those into the textures that work best for your body, if that makes sense.
Maureen: Anything you steer away from because of how it feels?
Evonne: Nothing that I would say I universally steer away from. I would say the thing I’m maybe most self-conscious about is that I have a smaller chest. So anything that gets too low—
Maureen: As you’re sitting here in the most buttoned-up thing possible.
Evonne: Exactly. This might be a personal detail, but I have a mole that sits pretty low on my neckline and chest. It’s usually my gauge. If something dips lower than that, I’m like, okay, this is too much.
Because I’m small-chested, it does get hard when tops don’t fit the way I’d like. Sometimes I think, oh, I’d kill for a bigger chest so I could gravitate toward different silhouettes and play with my neckline more. But because I’m small-chested, I steer away from certain things because I don’t feel good in them. It’s not my best sense of self. If something drapes too much there, I don’t want to accentuate the fact that nothing is there.
Maureen: Oh yeah, totally. I think we all have aesthetic preferences for our body. It doesn’t have to be about “flattering” or understanding every reason why something does or doesn’t work. Of course, every week I’m here trying to understand. But sometimes it’s just, “Oh, I just don’t like that.”
Evonne: Yeah. It’s not worth it. There are certain things I’ve tried to push myself to like, and I just can’t like them. And I’m like, why do I care so much about liking this? This is the situation I’m in. I’m going to stop trying to force that.
Maureen: I don’t really like wearing oversized tops. I prefer a fitted top and then a really wide pant. That’s my favorite silhouette. I think it’s fun. When I see someone else wearing something oversized on top, I’m like, oh, I’d love to try that. And then I remember—I’ve actually tried that a ton of times and I consistently don’t like it. So maybe we can stop trying that. Or maybe not right now.
Evonne: Totally.
Maureen: We can give ourselves that acceptance and grace. We don’t have to understand more.
Evonne: I can’t tell you how many times I need to buy a dress for a special occasion and I get so attracted to an oversized shape because I love playing with proportions. It’s constantly something I pick up. Then I get to the fitting room and I have the same thought you just shared. “Why do I keep picking this shape?”
I look like a lunch bag—like a paper bag. I’m completely lost in the fabric. This is not going to look good at a special event. I’m not going to feel confident or like my best self in this item. I know I have to pick either a more formal dress or something that accentuates my smaller proportions, because that’s where I’m going to look my best and not have the garment wearing me.
But for whatever reason, even though we’ve talked about this so many times, I forget.
Maureen: We all forget. And that’s OK. Especially when we’re doing so much stuff online, we’re constantly seeing examples of an oversized silhouette—just because we both said that specifically—in all the catalogs. And then you get that into your head as the best aesthetic. I’m only speaking for myself, right? I get that into my head as the best aesthetic. And then I have to reframe and remind myself, yes, I see that in the catalogs or I see that online, but that doesn’t immediately translate to what I feel best in. We have to do that kind of filter.
Evonne: Totally. And when you are in person, it can be hard to tell sometimes, when you see something on the hanger, how oversized it’s going to be or what shape it’s going to take. That’s why shopping in person is the absolute best. A company hates to see my return coming because on the model—the five-nine model who wears a size two or four—it looks incredible on her. But on me, who’s not five-nine, I’m drowning in it. That’s one of my biggest frustrations with shopping online because I am not that person.
Maureen: None of us are, right?
Evonne: Exactly. And it almost always gets returned. That’s why I try to stick to brands where my fit is consistent. Like FRAME denim. I know no matter what, anytime I go in there, my size is my same size—no matter the fit, no matter the fabric. It’s consistency for me. And that’s what keeps me coming back. No matter how many times I walk into that store saying, “I’m not going to buy anything,” I always walk out with something because they know what they’re doing when it comes to fit and size.
Maureen: That’s awesome. It’s so good to have those brands that just work.
Evonne: It’s taken me years to find the brands that work best for me. And I’m constantly trying to find new ones because your style evolves, it changes, colors change, your fit can fluctuate. So you almost need to have a handful in your wheelhouse whenever you’re shopping.
Maureen: Totally. What’s exciting you in fashion right now?
Evonne: There’s definitely something. I love the resurgence of modern prep—what some people call preppy academia. And one of the brands I literally cannot get enough of is La Veste. They’re a Spanish brand. They really take this interpretation adventurously and spin the whole concept on its head.
They borrow from preppiness—structure, polish, tradition—but then inject color and charm and a little chaos in ways where the result feels familiar but delightfully offbeat. They’re just having so much fun with it. I’m constantly amazed season after season how they top themselves again and again.
They have stores in Europe but none in the U.S. They did a pop-up in SoHo last summer. I cannot recommend them enough, especially when it comes to mixing color. That’s maybe the other thing I’m most interested in right now—unexpected color combinations.
Red with brown. Black with navy—shout out to Fanny Adams and Kelly Williams for that one. I never thought I’d dabble in black and navy, but they’ve spun it on its head for me. And La Veste plays with olive and chartreuse or hunter green in stripes and patterns where you’d think, “I would never put these together,” but the way they pair them makes you see things completely differently.
The market feels so oversaturated right now. So many options. A lot of the tried-and-true brands sadly feel the same. So I love when brands lean into familiarity but take it to another level with detail or color that makes them truly unique and stand out from the crowd.
Maureen: I’ll make sure to include a link in the show notes. Coming toward the end here—what advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Evonne: Pay attention to how the clothes make you feel, not how they look on anyone else. Reach for those pieces on repeat because they make you stand taller and instantly feel more like yourself. That’s the sweet spot.
From there, look for patterns in what you already love. Textures. Colors that work on your skin tone or complement your eyes. That’s your personal brand story starting to take shape. And most importantly, give yourself permission to edit. If something served you 10 years ago but doesn’t now, get rid of it. It doesn’t need to be in your closet. I’m a big believer in a seasonal closet overhaul. If you’re not gravitating toward something anymore, don’t save it for a rainy day. If you haven’t worn it in two or three years, let it go. It’s not serving you. It’s not bringing you joy.
Maureen: I’m a secret minimalist, so I love that advice. And I love what you said about paying attention to how it feels on you rather than how it looks on someone else. I think I could have used that advice years ago.
Maureen: Fabulous. I’ll make sure to link to that. Thank you—this was really fun.
Evonne: Thanks for having me.
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
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Also with my interior decorating, I use really neutral colors. So both my wardrobe and my environment are always really edited and very curated—almost the opposite of intuitive.
But I’ve realized that my intuition actually guides me toward this simplicity. It took me years to accept that my true style is that simple—and maybe kind of boring in a way—but my intuition expresses itself through calm and clarity. I like order. I like harmony. My brain and emotions feel best in simplicity.
I recently had this epiphany that, for me, intuitive style actually means choosing what supports my nervous system. Does that sound weird? I need to wear clothes that feel like me and match my emotions that day. Dressing intuitively simply means aligning how I feel with how I present myself.
So yeah, to sum everything up, it’s choosing what supports the version of myself I want to be and what supports my nervous system.
Maureen: Well, we can end the podcast right there. No, I mean, that’s so incredible. And I agree with you on every point about the misconceptions—what we think intuitive style might look like versus what it actually feels like.
Intuitive style isn’t an aesthetic; it’s a preference. It’s a way of choosing. You were talking about your nervous system and how clothing supports it. Can you walk through an example—maybe a time when you tried something more colorful or wild and felt it didn’t align, versus something you really enjoy wearing? What’s the difference in feeling for you?
Anika: Off the top of my head, I don’t necessarily remember a specific example because every time before I leave the house I actually check whether something supports my nervous system or not. But I do remember this massive teddy fur coat I got probably two years ago. I felt so visible—so seen—on the street, and I couldn’t handle that at the time. That’s probably a good example.
Maureen: Yeah, that’s a great example. I can think of that too—sometimes something just feels loud, and it’s not the kind of attention you want.
Anika: Exactly.
Maureen: You mentioned that before you leave the house every day, you do a nervous system check. I need more information. What is this?
Anika: I mean, I do lay out my clothes before I leave the house because I leave really early in the morning for work. But mostly, I just look in the mirror and check: what’s on the agenda today? How do I feel today? And most importantly, how do I want to feel today?
Then I do a little check—does my outfit represent that? Let’s say I’m wearing a leather jacket, but I don’t feel very strong that day, or I chose something that makes me feel more visible than I want to be. Then I’ll just change it or make little tweaks.
Maureen: So the idea is choosing something that represents how you’re feeling on that day versus just in general—or maybe both?
Anika: Yeah, yeah, both probably. I also—and I think I’ve talked about this on Substack before—I always feel like I want to have a cohesive look throughout my personal style. So that’s actually referring to what you said about emotions in general or representation in general.
Maureen: Yeah. Yeah. What do you think it is about that idea of being cohesive that resonates with you? I know I do, and so many other people do. What is it about that that feels good to you?
Anika: I think my Style Notes on Substack actually give away that I’m quite analytical. And also, I think that reflects my more perfectionist side. I feel like that’s probably the reason.
Maureen: Yeah, yeah, that’s super fair. Let’s talk about that.
So, okay, I think another misconception that I’ve experienced with intuitive style is that it’s somehow the opposite of being analytical. I think for me—and from what I’ve heard from you—they’re actually very intertwined.
With your Style Notes, if I can summarize, you analyze a really cool person and their style, and you see what it is about that which works or resonates with you. So I’d love to hear your take on how being analytical relates to being intuitive. Do you think they’re opposites? Do you think they fit together? How does that work?
Anika: Yeah, I actually think they do fit together, and they intertwine. I feel like on a subconscious level, I would always be analytical. But then this intuitive or emotional side that we’ve talked about also plays a role in that.
I think I always have style formulas and patterns in the back of my head—even things I’ve probably already discussed on my podcast or in my style notes. And then my intuitive style actually plays with that.
So they kind of intertwine—my more perfectionist or analytical side and my intuitive side. In the end, I think it’s a sum of both of those that makes me get dressed.
Maureen: Yeah. Can I share how I see they relate and see what you think?
Anika: Okay.
Maureen: To me, it’s like if you think about a trained interior designer or a trained artist—yes, you can absolutely be completely self-taught and create something totally new. And also, a lot of artists learn techniques by studying people they look up to or artworks they’re inspired by.
When you think about someone who’s learned how to sculpt marble, for example, that’s not something you just pick up one day and nail on the first try. Someone probably had to teach you techniques.
So I see it as a study—it’s a study in something we’re clearly passionate about, which is getting dressed. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with studying what other people are doing in order to interpret it for ourselves. I think it’s just a deeper way of engaging with the topic.
Maureen: And I think it’s—I don’t think that mimicking or taking pieces from what someone else is wearing is ever going to look or feel exactly the same on us anyway, because we are unique individuals. Our personality and all of that really impacts how it feels. So I see it as a way of engaging deeper in a topic that we care about. How do you feel about that?
Anika: I love that idea. I mean, actually, when you mentioned the trained interior designer example, I immediately thought of a trained dancer. A trained dancer also trains—they have routines, they have training sessions—but in a way they have to bring emotion into it once they start dancing and moving.
So of course there’s choreography once they’re on stage, but there’s so much intuition in the way they dance and move. And yeah, I love that you’re also a supporter of the idea that you can copy other people but still remain true to yourself or true to your intuitive style in the end.
Maureen: Yeah. Well, I think we should touch on perfectionism then, because to me, being analytical isn’t the same thing as being a perfectionist. They’re related, but not the same. I’m curious about your thoughts on this.
To me, perfectionism is where you take analytics too far and you’re like, “Oh, if it’s not exact, it’s not worth trying.” How do you think about analytics?
Sorry, I should have asked you first—I got excited.
Anika: No, no, that’s okay. I feel like I’ve never thought about it that way. They were always intertwined for me. This analytical side always had almost a bad association or connotation for me.
But actually, analyzing something can support your idea of something, or just serve as research. And I like that you separate those two or differentiate between the two ideas. Perfectionism per se is not something bad, and being analytical is also not something bad. But I like that you actually separate them.
Maureen: Yeah. I mean, I think I can give an example. I love your Style Notes series, right? And it encouraged me to write my own version—I couldn’t help it. I saw yours and I was like, “I have to do one like this.” I was so excited by it.
That emotional response made me want to do this highly analytical thing. They’re very intertwined. And then the difference I see is this: if I analyze someone’s style and recreate it, my version will look different—spoiler alert, it always will.
If I then automatically say, “Different is bad. I failed. This wasn’t worth trying,” that’s where it tips into perfectionism. That’s where it becomes, “I shouldn’t even bother dressing like the people whose style I like. I shouldn’t even bother wearing the clothes that excite and energize me, because on me it won’t be right. It’ll look bad. My body will make it look bad.”
That’s where it becomes unhealthy—this pessimism that stops us from even going for the things that excite us.
Anika: I love your take on that.
Maureen: Does that resonate with you? Have you ever had that experience?
Anika: Yes. I think whoever I look at within my Style Notes, I always—and that’s why I do that little section at the end—ask, “What do I take away for my own personal style?” And it’s always something really abstract.
I think it’s important to see patterns rather than saying, “Okay, this outfit consists of a white shirt plus black jeans and boots.” But rather, what’s the vibe behind the outfit? What do I like about it? And how does it make me feel, rather than focusing on the elements or the specific pieces in the outfit? Not “how can I copy that person best,” but “how can I make my own version of this?” or “what about this look or this personal style would benefit my own style?”
I think it’s important to see patterns rather than saying, “Okay, this outfit consists of a white shirt plus black jeans and boots.” But rather, what’s the vibe behind the outfit? What do I like about it? And how does it make me feel, rather than focusing on the elements or the specific pieces in the outfit? Not “how can I copy that person best,” but “how can I make my own version of this?” or “what about this look or this personal style would benefit my own style?” - Anika Krueger
Maureen: Yeah, no, I love that. I think we have to let the emotional and analytical sides coexist. I think they’re better together—that’s my take. I would love to talk next about how you decide what to buy and where—and how you decide what not to buy and where.
Anika: That’s really funny, because I feel like my personal style is actually defined by what I decide not to buy and not to wear. Because it’s so curated, edited, and minimal, I’m not an impulse shopper. I buy very intentionally.
I have a really clear vision of what I want to buy and how I want to dress. I gravitate toward pieces that already feel like they’re hanging in my wardrobe. And that often leads me to buying upgraded versions of things I already have—pieces that are really aligned with my personal style and also with practicality.
I keep a list that I update regularly of things I don’t want to buy—almost like a reminder. And that’s something I do not only with my wardrobe, but in life in general. I love reflecting on past decisions, not in a bad or unhealthy way, but more like, “Don’t buy that weird thing again,” or “Remember last time you sold 20 logo shirts?” It’s more in that way.
Maureen: Okay. I think what can be really hard is knowing what we do and don’t like. One thing you said is that you buy things that feel like they’d already be hanging in your closet. I don’t expect this to be an easy answer, but how do you build that trust? How do you know when an item feels like it’s missing?
Anika: Oh, that’s a good question. I think it’s kind of like the Marie Kondo thing—it sparks joy. You can’t really put your finger on it.
I try things on, and if it feels like a true addition to my wardrobe, like an extension, then it feels right. And that brings us back to intuition. I think I’m someone with a really strong gut feeling. Sometimes I feel it first, and the explanation comes later.
It’s about trying something on and doing that little check-in: “Okay, that’s it,” or “That’s not it.” Sometimes I can point to why—the length, the silhouette, the material. And sometimes I can’t. You just hang it back. And I also think you have to remind yourself and build a kind of style confidence—with your personal style and with the more practical side of having a wardrobe. You go shopping, you have a feeling about something, and you trust yourself enough to say, “That’s not the right decision today—or ever.”
Maureen: Do you have a sense, just ballpark, of your success rate? Like, for how many things you try on, how many do you actually end up buying?
Anika: Oh, that’s so interesting. That’s such a good question. Sometimes I try things on just to see—to push a little outside the box. But the rate of things I actually buy is quite low.
I’m not someone who loves shopping and tries on a million things. I’m more like, “Okay, I want to see how that feels.” Sometimes I try something on purely out of curiosity. I recently went to Amsterdam and we went into, I think, Filippa K. I tried on this really beautiful coat that was very cinched at the waist. I just wanted to see how it looked on my body. And I think I should do that more often. That would probably be really good for my intuitive style—letting it grow a bit and allowing my personal style to evolve.
But yeah, to come back to your question, the rate is pretty low for things I try and don’t end up buying.
Maureen: Hmm….I try so many things on—so many—and then I buy, like, one thing. I don’t know. I think there’s sometimes a size component that makes it more complicated, like fit, when your body isn’t really designed for certain things.
But even when I was in more clearly straight sizes, I still tried on a lot and didn’t end up buying much, or it didn’t stay long. For me, that goes back to the idea of how analytical and emotional fit together. I need data to respond to.
I’m collecting data when I try things on, when I browse online, when I compare measurements. All of that data helps me decide what’s worth ordering and what’s not. And then from there, I keep what I can keep.
It sounds like you have a different approach—you know what you want to try on, and you feel pretty confident it’s going to work. And then it does.
Anika: I mean, sometimes—especially in this day and age with online shopping—it’s been a tough day and you order something, and suddenly two or three things are in your basket that probably aren’t supposed to be there. But yeah.
And actually, you inspired me to do this more often—spending a day with a good friend and just browsing. I don’t think I necessarily take the time to do that, but I should. And I think there’s no right or wrong approach here.
Maureen: Totally. And just to be clear, when I say I try on a lot of stuff, it’s usually because I have a very specific idea of what I want, and I’m trying on different versions of the same thing.
I’m not trying on things I know I don’t want. For example, I don’t wear yellow, so I’m not trying on yellow. But if I want a gray sweater, I’ll try on quite a few of them.
Anika: I completely understand. It can be hard to find the right version, but I think it’s worth trying.
Maureen: It is. Yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting.
I also wanted to go back to something you mentioned—you said that when you buy something, you want to extend or enhance your wardrobe. I love that idea. Can you say more about what you mean by that?
Anika: Yeah, this is probably also a bit of a perfectionist idea, but in the end, I want my wardrobe to represent only what makes sense to me. I’m really intentional about what goes in, like I said.
Maureen: Can I check if this is part of what you mean? You don’t buy just to buy—everything has a purpose. Do you buy multiples of things? And if you do, are they very different? How do you know something is extending your wardrobe versus just making things easier? What’s the difference between ease and extension?
Anika: I actually don’t buy multiples. I feel like my entire personal style journey is based on upgrading versions of things. Like, let’s take your gray sweater, for instance. For me, it’s oversized blazers. Ten years ago, I started collecting oversized blazers, and I always sell one and then buy an upgraded version that fits my—probably also trend-led—idea of an oversized blazer at that time.
So “enhancing” or “extending” a blazer really means buying upgraded versions rather than buying multiples. If you look at my personal style over the last ten years, it’s always been oversized blazers, loafers, ballet flats, coats, trench coats—just in different versions.
I sell a lot of clothes secondhand and really try to keep only the things in my wardrobe that I truly love. And I completely understand your idea of trying different versions of a gray sweater.
Maureen: Yeah. And when you say “enhanced version,” you mentioned that sometimes that can be trend-led. Is that mostly what you mean, or is there another element?
Anika: Yeah, I think it’s mostly—sadly—trend-led. At the moment, it’s exaggerated shoulders, very textured fabrics, that really strong silhouette, like The Frankie Shop, to name a brand.
But I also think intuition and the emotional side guide me, too. I’m not only buying enhanced versions because of trends—I’m also buying for a personality that has grown so much over the last ten years. I’ve become more courageous about buying more quote-unquote fashion pieces.
I used to be much more of a people pleaser, and now I’ve realized that people don’t really care what you’re wearing. That’s also what makes something like an oversized blazer feel like an enhanced version.
Maureen: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s awesome. I’m with you.
Let’s talk about something you mentioned earlier—looking at your wish list. Do you have one?
Anika: I actually don’t have a wish list. I have a not-to-buy list. I love the idea of a wish list and the satisfaction of checking things off, but I only have a not-to-buy list.
Maureen: So what’s on it right now?
Anika: All right, let me check my notes. First—no surprise—sneakers, except maybe one elegant Samba version. Short jackets that don’t cover the hips. I always gravitate toward them, and I always sell them. It goes back to what we talked about earlier—I feel very seen in short jackets, and it’s not comfortable for me.
Logo shirts and sweatshirts. Shoes you can’t walk in—I commute to work and have a 30-minute walk every morning. I tried shoes I couldn’t walk in until last year, and I’m smarter now.
Maureen: Yeah, that’s good.
Anika: The last three are colors: khaki green pieces, warm beige pieces, and dark gray pieces. It’s very specific, but it’s so helpful to have that guidance.
Maureen: Mm-hmm. It’s funny—those three colors are also colors I don’t buy. Yay.
Anika: So what would be on your not-to-buy list?
Maureen: What is on my not-to-buy list? Long jackets.
Anika: Interesting.
Maureen: Because it’s not really required by the weather here. I do have two long jackets, but that’s plenty.
This might be a cop-out, but also things I don’t like. Sometimes I’ll buy something because it’s practical or comfortable or “good enough,” and then I have a hard time styling it. It takes up so much brain space in a way that things I genuinely like don’t. Those feel effortless.
So yeah, my biggest rule is: if I don’t really like it, please don’t buy it.
There’s a lace shirt that looks really cool under a dress. I ordered the dress and I’m keeping it—I really like it, I’ve already worn it a bunch. But the top…I liked it in theory.
I have to send it back because I know I don’t actually like it. It’s not the exact right one, whatever it is. And if I keep it, it’s going to be a whole headache. So I’m sending it back.
Anika: Perfect. Yeah, that’s actually the idea of “sparking joy” that I mentioned before.
Maureen: Yeah. Exactly. As easy as that.
Anika: Yeah.
Maureen: It can be hard, especially when you have a really specific idea in your head of what you want to accomplish, and something is close—but it’s not it.
Anika: True.
Maureen: Okay, so we’ve talked a little about how you feel in your clothes on the emotional side. What about body awareness? How things feel on your body—the texture, the fit. How does that influence what you decide to buy and wear?
Anika: I think it influences me both subconsciously and consciously. I’m really grateful to say that my body feels more like a friend—it gives me signals. And I know not everybody can say that.
For me, body awareness is less about sizing or silhouettes and more about the emotional side, the nervous system side we’ve talked about. Of course, body awareness plays a huge role in what I decide to buy or wear, especially combined with the emotional side of getting dressed.
Whenever I feel like I need support in the morning, I’ll wear something in a stronger material—like a heavy leather jacket or a textured oversized blazer with exaggerated shoulders.
We’ve also talked about visibility versus invisibility. When you feel very visible, you become extremely aware of your body and very self-conscious. In that sense, body awareness probably plays the most important role when I get dressed, combined with the idea of supporting my nervous system.
Maureen: When you talk about feeling exposed, what does that feel like? Is it fear? What does that sensation actually feel like?
Maybe it’s like a distraction. Yeah. A distraction, but also anxiety. You’re just very aware of the fact that you’re wearing something specific. You feel sensitive.
Maureen: Yeah. Absolutely. I get that.
Maureen: So we’ve talked a little bit about how you feel in your clothes, more on the emotional side. What about body awareness? So this would be how things feel on your body—the texture or the fit. How does that influence what you decide to buy and wear?
Anika: I think it influences me both subconsciously and consciously. I’m really grateful to say that I actually feel like my body is more of a friend—it gives me signals. And I know not everybody can say that.
For me, body awareness is less about sizing or silhouettes and more about the emotional side, this whole nervous-system aspect I’ve talked about. Of course, body awareness plays a huge role in what I decide to buy or wear, especially when we talk about the emotional side of getting dressed.
Whenever I feel like I need a bit of support in the morning, I’ll wear something in a stronger material—like a heavy leather jacket or a textured oversized blazer with exaggerated shoulders.
We’ve also talked about visibility versus invisibility. In that sense, you become very aware of your body and very self-conscious. So body awareness probably plays the biggest role when I get dressed, combined with the idea of supporting my nervous system.
Maureen: Yeah. And when you talk about feeling exposed, what does that feel like? Is it fear? What does that sensation feel like for you?
Maybe it’s more like a distraction. But also anxiety. You’re just so aware of the fact that you’re wearing something specific. You feel sensitive.
Maureen: Yeah. Absolutely. I get that.
Okay, let’s talk about how your style has changed. I know we’ve talked a little bit about how a lot of elements have stayed the same, but are there any memorable phases you can think of?
Anika: Yeah. I think my personal style is so closely connected to my personality that any major life change has been a reason for my style to evolve.
The first one that comes to mind is university. I moved to a bigger city, and my style evolved during that quote-unquote blogger era. That was the first time I really had to filter style influences.
I was chronically overdressed—oversized blazers, loafers—while everyone else at uni, in this really open-minded, casual city, wore Converse, jeans, and T-shirts. My early style was very vintage, retro, hipster, and very overdressed.
Then it transitioned into more of a minimalist phase—almost a Gandhi minimalist style—even more minimal than today. That was also during the capsule wardrobe era. I never fully did a capsule wardrobe, but I came very close.
Then, in my early law career, when I started my first law job, my style truly felt like my own. Around that time, someone very close to me became really ill, and getting dressed for work became an emotional anchor.
No one at work knew what was happening in my personal life, and getting dressed—really dressing up—was the biggest and most grateful distraction. It helped me support my emotions and keep it together.
After that, all major life changes just built on that evolution—breakups, moving cities.
What’s funny is that the city I live in now is the first place I’ve ever truly felt at home. People dress up, but in a very authentic way. I don’t have to wear Converse just to fit in, and that feels really nice.
Maureen: Yeah, I was actually hoping to talk about that. I think there’s a very real tension between wearing what feels good to us and wearing what feels good relative to the people around us.
There can be a divide between what feels like it represents our personality and what we’re seeing around us. So when you were at uni and everyone was wearing Converse—did you feel more comfortable in loafers, or did it depend on the situation? How did you navigate that mismatch?
Anika: That’s so interesting. I don’t think I had the confidence back then to wear the loafers and feel good. I wore a mishmash—I’d wear the Converse with the blazer.
I tried to adapt to a level that felt acceptable but never actually felt good.
I’ve become much better at not doing that. For example, casual events where you don’t really know anyone—I used to dress way down for those.
Actually, Substack really helped me with that. It kind of taught me that it’s okay to dress the way you want, even if the crowd isn’t into fashion or dressing up. That’s not a reason to adapt.
Now I’m more confident choosing the loafers—but I used to absolutely choose the Chucks instead.
Maureen: Yeah, that’s super fair.
So what advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Anika: I love that question. I’d say: take it seriously. I actually have to remind myself of that too. Fashion is often considered superficial, but it’s not.
View it as something important to you and see it as a holistic process. Take your emotions and your confidence into consideration. Take time to discover not only what you want to wear, but how you want to feel.
Also, discover what your values are. That circles back to the Converse-versus-loafers discussion—just be unapologetic about who you are.
Grow into a version of yourself you like, and then dress accordingly. Take your time figuring out what that means for you.
I also think it’s helpful to see your wardrobe as a space of happiness. That sounds cheesy, but really—fall in love with fashion, celebrate it as something important, something you do for yourself.
In the end, it’s how you show up in the world. It’s the first thing people see about you. I always have to remind myself that it matters because it influences so many areas of my life.
Maureen: Great advice.
Well, thank you so much. Where can listeners find you?
Anika: First on my Substack—it’s called No Wardrobe. The original idea was that I wanted to sell my entire wardrobe and build it from scratch.
My Instagram is anika.ricarda. People can also find me on Indyx—I’m a personal stylist there. The link is in my Instagram bio and on Substack.
Maureen: Awesome. I’ll make sure all of that is linked in the show notes. Thank you so much.
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.
Traci: It’s so funny because all my friends and family would describe me as like the least flexible person in the universe. To say, that this is a skill that I’ve had to really try to build over time is the truth.
Our family was going to Aruba and I have been loving using Indyx to digitize my wardrobe and I’ll probably talk about it a lot here and there. I was digitizing my wardrobe, planning a collection of what I was going to wear each day. One of the things when we go away, we have this unspoken family rule that it’s carry-on only. Like we don’t check bags. We refuse to do it. We went to Disney World for like eight days and we did not check a bag. So I’m trying to get everything neatly in my luggage and I plan it down to the T, and I got to Aruba and it’s funny, like you mentioned vibes, the vibes just didn’t feel good. They felt off for what I packed. Old Tracy would have probably went into a panic, right? Of like, but I planned this and I have to take pictures and what about my content and what about my next blog post?
And this new Traci 2.0 that I’m really growing into since kind of my Substack launched in the spring has really been kind of like, okay, pause. You don’t really want to get dressed right now. You don’t really want to put on these really cute outfits that you planned. You instead want to focus on just being present with your family. You don’t want to be running around holding your camera, taking pictures. Like it just wasn’t what I wanted to do on the trip.
And there was this part of me that felt so guilty, right? Like I was like, I packed these outfits, I have to shoot them, people need to see them, that’s what the people want, and I had to take a minute and say, like, but what do I want? Like right now I want time with my family and right now I want to wear what just feels… I don’t really want to put a heel on or, you know, a pair of shorts that might just feel a little tight right now because I’m having fun with my family and we’re trying all the things. And I think it’s just building that skill of just giving myself permission to say, you can change course, right? Like you don’t have to go into something and say, I’m 100% doing this because it’s what everyone else wants. It was in that moment saying, well, what do I want right now? I want to be comfortable. I don’t wanna wear all these things that I planned out and I wanna enjoy being present with my family.
And that’s kind of where that post came from. Like it wasn’t supposed to be that. It was supposed to be everything else. And giving myself grace to say, you can change course and allowing myself, I love to make rules for myself, right? Like I have to wear this or I have to have this done by this day or whatever it is. And a lot of the rules I make for myself, nobody else is making them for me. So in this new 2.0 phase, it’s been a lot of saying like, okay, you can pivot and you can pivot and be okay, right? You don’t have to have this breakdown or this shaming that you didn’t do what you planned. You can just pivot and try something different.
When it comes to getting dressed, a lot of what I do is I pivot and I can make those adjustments. But the big thing for me has been like not following that up with shame, right? Of like, you did a bad job or you didn’t do what you said you were going to do. It’s okay to let the world down to take care of yourself. And I think that was that moment. So on this podcast, I try to talk about body awareness. And I think that’s a big part of telling our bodies that, or making sure that our bodies and our minds are in the right roles.
Maureen: So I’m just curious, you had mentioned that in the past you would have panicked. This time, how do you make that transition to not panicking when the situation is the same? Do you lead with your mind? Do you lead with your body?
Traci: Yeah. I think it’s a lot of leading with my mind because I think that is my worst enemy. And I write about this all the time about like, you know, being a super type B person and sometimes like being a little bit of a hot mess and having to juggle that. And sometimes that can be really stressful, but yeah, I think a lot of it is like conditioning my mind to say like, it’s okay. Like you can make those changes, you can be flexible, you can wear what feels good to you and nobody’s watching. Nobody really, nobody really cares what you’re wearing sometimes. And, you know, I think that’s just like an inner dialogue that I learned with a lot of help to have with myself.
Maureen: And in those moments, do you try on the outfit that you were originally thinking and then take it off? Or is it more like you see the outfit in your head and you’re like, I don’t even want to put it on? How does that feel?
Traci: So it’s like, I’ll get out of the shower, I’ll get myself ready. And then I’ll look at my phone and I’ll look at the outfit that I planned and I’m just like, no. Yeah. Okay. No, it’s just not today. You know, we’re going to get tacos. I don’t need to wear this gorgeous little look to go get taco meat spilled all over me. It’s just, no, I’m a big vibes person. And when I feel it, I kind of just try to trust my gut and what it’s telling me to do.
“No, it’s just not today. We’re going to get tacos. I don’t need to wear this gorgeous little look to go get taco meat spilled all over me…I’m a big vibes person. And when I feel it, I kind of just try to trust my gut and what it’s telling me to do.” - Traci Landy
Maureen: Yeah. Thank God for our gut. I’d love to talk about how you decide what to buy and where and what not to buy or wear.
Traci: I think I feel like my style evolution has really changed this a lot in my life. One of the things that really attracts me to a piece is colors. And it’s funny, because I’m not a very colorful dresser, but one thing that I really obsess over is the combinations of colors.
I always say I’m a huge copycat. I love to see things and put my own twist on it or admire it and appreciate it and try to replicate it in my own way. I never sell myself as an expert or a stylist. I literally am like, I’m a civilian. I’m a mom. I’m just trying to look good. And I’m like, I’m the guinea pig. I’m taking what everyone’s talking about and seeing how I can work it in real life.
A lot of what I do is I’ll find color combinations that I really like. And then I’ll focus on a piece or something. And I usually like to then go to Pinterest. Right. And I’ll look and see, like, how can I work this green sweater? And I’ll just search, you know, green sweater outfits. And I’m just kind of looking through them and I’ll sift through them. And any time I find that color that matches this combination that I start to like, then I just start saving it. Right. And then after a while, when I start to see for me, a big thing is like, is it versatile? Like, can I really use this piece?
Because if it’s really just this one-trick pony, it’s not worth it for me to invest. Right. I don’t have endless dollars. Like I’m a school teacher, you know, like I’m a mom. And for me, it’s a real careful consideration that most of my friends and family think is absolutely insane. But I like to really just kind of luxuriate in the colors and see if they can work. And I think that’s part of why I love graphics and design so much. I think another thing has really been like for me, as far as buying is finding brands that I really like. And unfortunately, sometimes brands that I like are out of my price range. And I have to be okay with saying like, I can’t afford that, right? Like, I could look secondhand, I could wait, I can hope for a sale, but I think it’s coming to terms with like, where can I get what I’m looking for that’s a good quality, that’s in a range that I feel okay spending.
Because there’s nothing that feels worse than overspending for something that doesn’t get its use for me. So with that, I’ve found some brands that I really gravitate to. Like, I’m waiting for J. Crew to call me, like, please. But no, I think I love to, you know, I feel like they really align with my style. I found over the years, for example, Madewell really aligns well with my style.
But not only do they align with my style, they align with my budget and how much I’m willing to spend and how much I can spend.
I’m also just a really big mood-based dresser. I joke about vibes, and a lot of when I get dressed and gravitate to certain pieces really just has to do with a feeling that it can evoke. And I think those are the biggest things.
Maureen: I wanted to go back to color because I’m also very particular about color, and I’ll get kind of a color stuck in my brain and want to buy something in that color. Then I’ll buy the first version of it that I see that is the right proportion or whatever, and then I’ll be like, oh, that wasn’t how I wanted to wear that color. I want to wear that color in a different way, but I bought this thing and now I’m trying to use it. Is this a very me problem, or do you ever do that where you are so caught on a color that you’re not really thinking about how you want to use it and more about using it?
Traci: Often. I think this color thing has been something I’ve always dealt with. I am a self-proclaimed Aquarius, and I love announcing to the world that I’m an Aquarius. So there’s this creative edge sometimes that I have, and when it comes to colors, I do something really similar.
I’ll find a color and hyper-fixate on how much I love it—maybe it’s cobalt blue—and I just can’t stop thinking about it. Sometimes instead of reaching for the first one I find that I may not really love, I start thinking, I need a cobalt blue sweatshirt, I need a cobalt blue sweater.
Then it’s like, okay, I want all these things, but how can I find them at the cheapest price? I go through this whole hamster wheel until I finally have to self-talk myself and say, stop. Do not think about this for a week, then come back to it with a clear mind.
Maureen: No, that’s super fair. One thing I do is I’ll buy it in nail polish.
Traci:Ooh, yeah.
Maureen: That kind of helps me get unstuck a little bit.
So we talked a little bit about body awareness, but are there any specific textures, fits, or styles that you gravitate towards because of how they feel on your body or how they make you feel?
Traci: Do you mind if I segue a little bit to talk about my journey with body awareness? I felt like there were a couple of big shifts in my life that shaped when I became really aware of the skin I’m in. One of those is college athletics—I played lacrosse in college, and being an athlete very much defined who I was for a big portion of my life. When I think back on my college experience, that was the first time I became hyper-aware of my body. I was lucky to grow up in a home where that was never something I thought about. My parents were incredible. In college, being part of a team made me start not only seeing myself but looking at everyone else.
Some things that contributed were a heavy, intense strength and conditioning program where we were Olympic lifting, getting big and strong. It was about who could lift more, which was celebrated. But there was also the weight component; they would measure body composition and clip, you know, love handles. Nobody did it to make us feel bad, but there were conversations about percentages, and mine was never great. We also had to announce what size sweatshirt we wanted—I always got a large while everyone else got small or extra small.
I remember being one of the only players who didn’t want to take off my shirt on a trip to Australia because I was with women who were incredibly fit, and that just wasn’t my body type. From then, a long journey of comparing myself, not really loving myself, and wanting something I couldn’t have started. It’s taken a long time to reflect on that and how it shaped how I see myself in the world and how I model behaviors in front of my daughter. College athletics are intense, and you get feedback from all angles—people commenting, parents suggesting exercises. Sophomore year, my eating wasn’t great, I lost a lot of weight, and I looked great from the outside. I got the most positive feedback from the world around me, which taught me that positive attention could come at a personal cost.
Just to say, everyone has a journey. We don’t just wake up one day and take outfit selfies loving ourselves. There’s a lot of work that goes into having the courage to do that. After having my kids, it was about trying to re-love my body and accept its changes. I wrote on Substack about my miscarriages and having to learn to love a body that let me down. Only in recent years am I overcoming that. When I think about what I like to wear, it’s important to understand the journey that got me here. Thinking about fabrics and textures—there were times I couldn’t look in the mirror without crying. I love to wear things that are comfortable; if something digs in, I won’t feel good. I love elastic waistbands, satin pants, high-waisted jeans. I would love to be a low-waisted girly—it looks cool—but for my body, high-waisted jeans and oversized clothing feel best. It’s not about not loving my body; it’s about what feels good. Comfort and how I feel in it really dictate what I gravitate to.
“When I think about what I like to wear, it’s important to understand the journey that got me here.” - Traci Landy
Maureen: There’s so much there. I wanted to go back quickly to your college experience. I personally practice Health At Every Size. For listeners—weight, size, and health are not always equated as we think. That [societal] oversimplification can be harmful, especially when how you feel internally differs from perception.
Traci: Yeah. I think it’s about honoring your body, not just others’ perspectives. Safety isn’t only about what others think; it’s a balance. Fashion is also about expression and communication, not just comfort. So what I want the world to know based on what I’m wearing is that I am creative. It might sound unexciting, but it’s about showing that I’m more than a mother, wife, or teacher. I’ve grappled with who I am outside of those roles. I never wanted to lose the artistic, creative piece I discovered as an adult.
“What I want the world to know—based on what I’m wearing—is that I am creative. It might sound unexciting, but it’s about showing that I’m more than a mother, wife, or teacher. I’ve grappled with who I am outside of those roles.” - Traci Landy
Traci: When I get dressed, it’s a way to express that—to show I have passions beyond family and career, supported by family and friends. I also want to appear approachable. I love the little conversations with people about fashion—compliments, shared admiration—it’s opened doors for friendships and connections in adult life.
Maureen: Yeah, I relate so hard. I can’t believe those words are exactly what I would say.
You mentioned as you became an adult, you realized you had this creative and artistic passion. Are there any other ways outside of fashion that you dig in or utilize those skills?
Tracy: It’s a great one. So I think writing is kind of a way that I’m able to do that. One of the things I love on my blog, which is like, I probably pay way too much attention to it on Substack, are graphics and images. I love design, and no, as far as design in my house, no, I’m not good at that, but when it comes to design, that is something I really enjoy. I started to see it in the classroom as a teacher when I was—yeah, like when I make my worksheets. I taught middle school for a really long time, and my classroom, I wish I had pictures, but it was like straight out of a Pinterest class. It was so intense, and I love color themes and when I would make worksheets, the way I wanted things formatted.
I have some amazing colleagues that I work with every day, a couple of women, and they’re always cheering me on in this part of my life. One of the things they always do is they’ll make a worksheet, come up with an idea, and say, “Okay, Traci, make it pretty.” And I’m like, yeah, I got this. I’m changing the margins, and I think the more I started doing that and surrounding myself with people—some of these women included in my family—that were empowering me and saying, “You’re good at this, you should sell your worksheets, or you should write, or share, you should create an Instagram page or a TikTok,” which I can’t do, but just saying, “You should pursue this,” that was huge.
I think that’s an area I do need to do a better job of finding other outlets to embrace it. I’ve wrestled with taking a painting class, and I don’t know why I haven’t just done it, but I know it’s something I really want to do and I think I’d really enjoy. It’s all new to me—literally, in the past, believe it or not, maybe under a year, I’ve really been growing into this. My whole first chunk of life was defined by athletics—this is who you are, your box, your niche, this is what you’re really good at. I never took the time to get to know myself and realize that I’m so much more than that. And I think that’s what this new chapter has been. Aside from adult coloring books, there’s more out there for me that I want, and I need to start taking the risks and seeking it out.
Maureen: It’s crazy—I just bought an adult coloring book yesterday.
Traci: So fun.
Maureen: And I mean, I can only speak for myself, but one of the ways that can be hard in 2025 is the pressure to monetize our hobbies and turn these creative expressions into something else. Maybe I’m picking up on that from the suggestions people were giving me as well, and maybe the painting class. Does any part of that feel selfish or wrong if you’re not going to monetize it? I don’t want to put words in your mouth.
Tracy: No, I think no, because for me, really, when I say it really is creative expression, I really mean that. I wrote a post about being on Instagram and struggling with content creation. I was comparing myself to everybody—why doesn’t anyone like my stuff? I was trying to engage with people and try, and it became this mind wrestle.
My daughter came up one day while I was trying to make a reel, which I can’t do—I’m so bad at them. She watched me laughing and asked, “Can I see it?” We would watch them, and then she said, “Mommy, how many likes did you get?” I was like, what? She said, “How many likes and dislikes did you get?” I felt weird, like did I say something out loud, and I didn’t like the way it felt.
I ended up deleting my Instagram—I was like, this isn’t for me, this doesn’t feel real, doesn’t feel good. I eventually created a really low-key new one, but it was a moment where I realized this doesn’t align with who I am right now and what I’m working on myself with.
To go back to painting, I can see something and be like, this isn’t the right reason for me, it doesn’t feel good for my soul, and I can walk away. Sometimes I want to light it on fire, but I can quietly leave. Painting or something like that would just be purely a hobby. Sometimes what holds me back is time—I want to do it, but what has to give? Is it my workouts, which I need to feel good? Is it spending quality time coloring with my daughter? I just wish I had more hours in a day.
Interviewer: Yeah. How is Substack, with likes and comments and gamification, different from Instagram?
Tracy: It feels less saturated, more substance. Instagram moves too fast for me—I couldn’t keep up. There’s something about reading someone’s writing that slows you down and lets you absorb it. I show up with a genuine heart on any platform—that’s who I am, how I like to operate, being kind. On Substack, engagement feels more authentic. Comments feel real, like people saying, “This speaks to me,” or “Your writing feels like my inner dialogue.” It’s less competitive, more uplifting, and I feel really good there. I didn’t get that fulfillment on Instagram.
Maureen: What advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic?
Tracy: The most important thing is working on yourself first. For me, it was learning how to love myself, appreciate my body, and sharpen my mental health. It’s ongoing work. Then, find what attracts you—what catches your eye, whether colors, textures, or aesthetics.
Start being aware of what you like, because in a world of algorithms and constant changes, it’s easy to forget what you genuinely like versus what you feel you should like. Another part is letting go of things that no longer serve you. I can be a big hoarder—jeans that I hope will fit or shirts that might come back in style. Building a wardrobe involves working on yourself first, then letting go of items that add pressure or no longer resonate, whether donating or thrifting.
Also, observe the world—people, colors, art, flowers. Moments of presence are underrated. For example, my husband and I went to a concert and were waiting in a cafe, and I was just watching the people in the city, absorbing their creativity in dress, tattoos, piercings, hair—it was inspiring.
Find brands that align with you, pieces that feel good and have multipurpose potential. For me, Pinterest helps figure out how to style something before investing. Apps like Indyx have helped me see my wardrobe as malleable, visualize what I have, what I need, and try new combinations. That combination of inner work, observation, and thoughtful curation has helped me build an intuitive wardrobe.
Maureen: I love your suggestion about observing the world. I’m not a homebody, so I love soaking in inspiration.
Thank you, Traci. This has been a delight. I resonate with so much of what you said. Where can people find you?
Traci: You can find me on Substack, Rambling in Style by Traci and on Instagram. I always reply to comments or DMs. I’ve met really cool people there and look forward to connecting.
Maureen: I’ll include your links in the show notes.
Traci: Perfect, thank you so much.
Maureen: Have a good one.
Traci: Thank you, see ya.
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.
A few years ago, right when COVID happened, I was a junior in college. All my classes were online. I was isolated. I was grieving the loss of a loved one. So I was not connected to myself at all—you know, a lot of people weren’t during that time.
And I started to not express myself anymore through the clothes that I was wearing. Prior to COVID and all that, I felt pretty confident in my skin and what I was wearing. My style has changed so much since then, but when COVID hit, I just started to hide myself. I hid my body. I was wearing more darker colors—nothing like the prints that I did this summer at all.
And so, yeah, when I saw all the photos of myself from this summer, I wanted to write about it because it honestly surprised me that I wasn’t realizing that that self-confidence came back. And it reminded me of when we’re kids and we don’t care what anyone thinks and we’ll just wear whatever we want to wear. So, yeah.
Maureen: Beautiful to hear that we can go through a period of kind of darkness and sadness and hiding, and sometimes we are lucky in the way that we can just find joy again without necessarily having to be super intentional about it. Sometimes it can just surprise us. And in that way, grief is non-linear and it’s surprising in all these ways.
Were you shopping differently, or was it more just like you’d had these clothes beforehand and were just choosing to wear darker colors versus now choosing to wear bright colors? How was that materially different?
Lee: That’s a good question. Some of the pieces I had, but a lot of them are new. I’ve been fortunate to work with some brands that have gifted me some items, so that has kind of propelled me out of my comfort zone—just working with different women-owned, small-owned brands.
But personally, I don’t really know what it was. I just started to embrace things that maybe would have made me uncomfortable in the past, especially because I live in Florida. We had a very hot summer, and I was like, I can’t do the oversized dark shirt and leggings every day—I need to cool off. So I started to wear a lot more linen, and some of the linen pieces that I bought had prints or patterns and colors—it wasn’t just tan or white.
So, you know, just making sure that I felt comfortable in extreme heat and also wanting to look cute in my own sense of style and everything.
Maureen: I love that too, and this is one of the reasons that I have a podcast about this. Because I think sometimes it can feel like there’s only one way to do things.
And I’m highly analytical—so when I’m shopping for my closet, nine times out of ten, it’s with extreme precision and intention and I overthink it. And I think what I’m hearing from what you’re saying is it was a little bit more organic and you were just kind of drawn toward these bright colors compared to when you were drawn toward darker colors.
Am I oversimplifying that process, or was there more analytical decision-making behind that? Which, for the record, if it is very organic, I’m jealous.
Lee: Right? Well, I’d say if I’m just shopping for everyday basics—like things that I can wear with five different outfits and remix—I may be a bit more analytical about that because I want to make sure it’ll last and I can get a lot of usage out of it.
But, you know Like in that newsletter, I had this green caftan on. When I got that, I wasn’t like, “Yeah, I’m gonna wear this every single day.” You know what I mean? I was like, I know this is probably gonna be a piece that sits in the closet, but it makes me happy and I will wear it. But it’s not gonna be like an everyday item, you know?
So I think the analytical, almost logical clothes-eye kind of goes out the window for me if it’s something I really, really like that may not be something I wear every day.
Maureen: It’s awesome to give yourself permission to do that. That’s how we interject things that we didn’t even know that we wanted. Sometimes we’re just drawn to something like a moth to a flame.
You also mentioned in the post there was a specific outfit that you wouldn’t have worn a few years ago. I think it was a little bit preppier or something like that. And I was just wondering—can you share more about maybe what changed your mind or how that change occurred, basically?
Lee: I remember the dress you were talking about. I think it was the one where I didn’t have sleeves, and it had stripes. Yeah, so that was one of those linen pieces I was telling you about. I felt really cool in it, I didn’t get hot in that dress—it was a very comfortable piece of clothing.
But a few years ago, I wouldn’t have worn it. Not because of the print or the color, but literally because of the arms—it didn’t have sleeves at all. And, you know, during COVID and isolation, I started to feel very aware of my body, but then also pick up little things that now I can look back and be like, I was being way too hard on myself.
Like, I’m blessed to have this body and to be able, you know what I mean? But back then, I was just looking at my body and picking all these little things apart. And back then, I just did not like my arms out. I needed sleeves. I just wanted to be covered, you know?
And so that piece—I love that dress so much today. I don’t have a second thought about my arms or anything. But like I said, that didn’t happen overnight, you know? Because I felt those insecurities like four or five years ago, and now it’s 2025, and I still have my moments and stuff. It’s not perfect, you know, but I just try to show up for myself and not be hard on myself, especially when it comes to what I’m putting on my body and how I feel, you know?
Maureen: I know that you said you were grieving the loss of a loved one around that time, but it’s just crazy the way that COVID had such an impact on how we were all feeling.
I also look back at pictures from a couple of years ago, and at the time I would look at those pictures and be horrified by my appearance. And it was just—like—totally normal. My body was so normal. And I just had this horrible lens on it.
And now I look back at those pictures and I [see something really positive]. I see such a different version of myself. And for me, I would say partially that just comes with getting used to maybe looking different if your body’s changed.
But also, I think there’s really something to what you’re saying about maybe it was just the COVID of it all — and how much time we had to just sit on our phones. I don’t know. Do you feel like that’s part of it?
Lee: I mean, I kind of do, because I remember early days it was like, “Don’t go outside.” So it’s like, okay, well, I’m just going to sit inside. And sitting inside just became my normal, because like I said, all my classes were online. My classes continued to be remote until I graduated in 2022.
So I was not on campus for almost a year and a half, almost two years. I just got comfortable with the four walls of my apartment—and I was like, it’s fine, it’s great, you know? That just became normal. Then, when it was time to go outside and see your friends and loved ones, that felt strange. You kind of want to hide yourself or just stay where you feel safe, you know?
Maureen: I totally relate to that. I think that’s so fair. I mean, especially — I can’t even imagine college virtually. You sound very resilient and like you got through it and made the best of it, but I mean definitely, I think even now I’m still trying to figure out how to get myself out of the house sometimes.
Because it still feels like—I don’t know, wrong sometimes. I get what you’re saying.
Lee: Because when COVID first happened, I was like, “Oh, I am so happy to have online classes,” because I’m an introvert. I love having my own space. I was also a creative writing major, so I was like, I’m going to romanticize this. I get to sleep in, make my coffee, read my books, and do my English literature and stuff.
But then, you know, a few months of that goes by and it does a number on you.
But I see what you mean about going out now. I mean, I do think there’s a difference between, you know, really wanting to protect your peace and enjoy your own company—because I do that a lot today.
I live in Tampa, and I’ve lived here for the past six or seven years. A few years ago, I could go downtown in like 30 minutes. It’d be a 30-minute drive. But now it could be like an hour because of the drivers and the amount of people here. Sometimes I just don’t want to deal with that.
But that’s—you know—I don’t see that as me isolating myself. So I feel you on how sometimes it just feels hard to even go out now. But, you know, it could just be that you want to have your peace.
Maureen: Totally. And it’s not black or white — it’s definitely about figuring out the right balance.
Am I mistaken in congratulating you on your MFA?
Lee: Yes, yes — I graduated last month!
Maureen: Okay, oh my gosh, congratulations!
Lee: Thank you.
Maureen: How do you feel having that degree? How does that impact your outlook?
Lee: I feel really good. I can’t say enough great things about the program. I went to the University of Georgia, and it was their narrative nonfiction program. I still talk to all my classmates who I graduated with and some of my professors — it was just an amazing experience.
I’ve always wanted to write a personal essay collection, and that two-year program really gave me the skills but also the confidence to achieve that goal of mine. So I feel a lot more confident when I’m writing and doing my own thing.
But that’s part of the reason why I do love Substack and writing about style — because a lot of the things I write on the side, the stuff I want to be in a book one day, can be very emotionally heavy. So doing these shorter-form posts about color and style and whatever else — that feels good. It’s nice to have that balance.
But thank you for saying congrats. I’m still kind of in a grieving period, honestly, because I can’t believe it’s actually over.
Maureen: That’s fair — and good for you for recognizing [the grief]! Sometimes when we get to the end of a big accomplishment, we’re like, “Why am I not magically happy?” And it’s like, oh — because maybe you actually liked the experience of going through it, having your friends around, all of that.
Lee: Yeah, no, that’s so real.
Maureen: So again, congrats — and again, welcome to Substack. Especially, it’s always nice to hear that professional writers are still using the platform — I say that without a professional writing degree myself.
Lee: Girl, you don’t need a professional writing degree! I mean, I’ll be honest — when I started posting on Substack, I think it was last January. I was doing more like fashion roundups — like “this deal, that deal” — and I still like reading that kind of stuff.
But I took a break for a while this year just to finish school and everything. Coming back to the platform and finding you and other writers — I’ve just felt very inspired. Because, I mean, everything that you publish, it’s like a personal essay — it’s stunning. And I love that.
It’s nice seeing what other people have to say, and you can tell everyone’s writing with a lot of heart. That’s beautiful.
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Maureen: Yeah, I appreciate that. And same with your writing, right? I think this is a perfect segue — thank you.
What’s really nice about writing on Substack in particular is that the long-form medium — you can do this on YouTube as well — but the long-form medium allows so much more complexity in why people are choosing what they buy.
In broad strokes, how do you decide what to buy and where — and how do you decide what not to buy or where?
Lee: So when deciding what to buy, if reviews are available, I love to look at reviews. And then also, there are certain brands that I’ve really liked in the past where I’m like, okay, I have to be careful today, because I don’t know if I’ll wash this item three times and then it’s just not doing it anymore.
You know, like Gap, Banana Republic — even though I’ve been loving what both of them have been putting out lately — but I’m still like, yeah, you have that hesitance.
Plus, since I don’t have a full-time job right now, I’m even more careful about where my money’s going, because I don’t want it to either not fit and I can’t return it, or it was a bit on the pricier side and it’s just not what I thought it would be.
I try to just sit on things for a while and not do the impulse buy. Because a few years ago, I was always doing that. I’d go to Target every weekend because I love a good bargain, and I’d just look at everything. I haven’t been to Target in months now.
So I just try to be careful — and also ask myself, you know, will I be able to wear this a lot?Can I wear it with other items? Is it versatile? And if it’s not—like some of those vibrant dresses I wrote about—then I ask myself, does this really make me happy? Do I want it because I like it, or because it looked good on someone else? I try to really hone in on my motivation for liking something.
When it comes to what not to buy—honestly, if it’s out of budget, that’s usually the main thing. I’ll save a photo or a link and think, this is really pretty—maybe one day.
Also, if I’m not sure something will fit my body type—I’m very curvy on the bottom—I tend to steer away, especially if it’s just a trend on social media. If it might not work for me, that’s okay. I try not to give too much energy to trends. I just observe and appreciate from afar.
Maureen: Yeah, it’s always good to know what’s not for us.
I guess the other question, kind of off that, is—do you ever feel like there’s such a thing as enough with clothing? Do you ever reach a place where you’re satisfied with what you have? Or is that still something you’re reaching for?
I ask because I’ve gone through a lot of style transitions—mostly unintentional, as my body size and shape changed—and I still feel like I’m trying to get to some sort of “goal.” Have you ever experienced a feeling of enough or satisfaction?
Lee: Totally, yeah. I’ve felt that before, but then I’ve also had moments where I realize I need new things. Like, during COVID, my body changed—I gained some weight—so I had to buy new clothes that fit this new body. And I was fine with that. I wasn’t going to wear clothes that didn’t feel good.
But now, some of those clothes need replacing again, so it’s a cycle.
At this point, if I look in my closet, I do feel like, this is enough—I have what I need. But there are always things I want. And honestly, social media feeds into that. Let’s be real—if we didn’t have magazines, trend forecasts, or constant content showing us what’s “in,” I think our wish lists would be much shorter.
There are things I want, sure, but do I need them? No.
Maureen: Yeah. And I ask that because you sound very level-headed and grounded when you talk about shopping and buying things. I wanted to acknowledge that, because like you said, there’s so much messaging out there telling us what we have isn’t enough—it’s such a trap.
I guess I just wanted to see if I was reading you right, because you sound really at peace with what you have, and I think that’s amazing.
Lee: Thank you, that’s really sweet. Honestly, I think it’s because I was laid off last year. Since then, I’ve been jumping from freelance position to freelance position, and being on a budget has forced me to hold myself accountable for my spending habits.
When I had a full-time job, I’d justify little purchases as rewards. But now that I don’t have that steady income, I’ve had to chill out a bit.
I also started creating fashion and beauty content after I was laid off, just because I had more time. But even with that, I’ve always wanted to stay true to myself. I never want to come across like I’m shouting at people—“you need this product or your skin will never look good”—because that’s just not me.
There’s nothing wrong with creators who do that, but I never wanted to feel loud or pushy. And honestly, when you consume too much of that kind of content, you start believing you really do need all those things—which you probably don’t.
So I try to stay intentional with what I create, and I think that’s carried over into how I shop and what I buy personally.
Maureen: Yeah, and that’s so important—to know what you want to communicate as a creator. You’re doing that really effectively.
So with that said—you mentioned earlier that being on Substack has been really inspiring for you. Knowing that you’re not necessarily writing about shopping right now, what’s inspiring or exciting you to write these days?
Lee: Honestly, the free time I have now. No, but really—I was so excited to get back into Substack and just do my little blogging again. It feels therapeutic. I love putting everything together in the Substack CMS—the graphics, the layout, all of it.
And lately, it’s been amazing connecting with so many new people. A few months ago, before you and I connected, my feed didn’t look the way it does now. Now it feels like people are really supporting each other, and that’s such a nice energy.
Seeing that community makes me want to keep returning. And I think part of it, too, is trying to create a routine for myself—posting maybe once a week or every two weeks.
You know, I had a really regimented school schedule, and I was so exhausted after graduating—happy, of course, but definitely tired. I needed a few weeks just to breathe.
Doing short posts on Substack has really helped me feel like I can take steps toward my writing goals again—working on my book, writing on the side. So yeah, Substack has been really helpful.
Maureen: Super cool. So, what advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Lee: I’d say just stay true to yourself. We were talking earlier about that “fake it till you make it” mindset—wearing things outside your comfort zone—and I think that can work sometimes. But for me, whenever I tried to do that, I just ended up feeling uncomfortable.
So my advice would be: start small. Don’t take it too seriously or feel like you need certain pieces to “complete” your wardrobe. Have fun with it, and forget the so-called fashion rules if you can. Whatever works for you will work for you.
For example, when mid-rise and low-rise jeans came back, I thought, that’s great—love that for y’all—but I’m not doing that. I’m a high-waisted girl; that’s what feels best on me, and that’s okay.
So yeah—just do what works for you and what makes you feel comfortable.
Maureen: Yeah, totally. Well, thank you—this was really fun. Where can listeners find you?
Lee: I’m on Instagram at @lealisha—that’s L-E-E-A-L-I-S-H-A. And my Substack is lealisha.substack.com. My newsletter is called Wearing on My Mind.
Maureen: Perfect! This was so fun—thank you.
Lee: Thank you!
Maureen: I’ll make sure all your links are in the show notes so everyone can find you.
Lee: Thank you so much.
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Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.
Ofelia: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.
Maureen: One of the key themes of All the Above is about your experience living in Paris, being from the U.S. originally. I’d love to hear how your style has changed between living in the U.S. and in Paris. How has the change of scenery impacted your style?
Ofelia: Yeah, definitely. It’s changed quite a bit, I would say. For some additional context, I moved from Austin, Texas, where there’s maybe like two seasons—or one giant season and a couple months of mild winter. I didn’t really have to account for a lot of fluctuation. I mostly had to account for a lot of heat living in Austin.
Moving to Paris, I now have to account for actually living in four different seasons, and even within a single season there’s a lot of fluctuation. I’ve had to get really good at layering, and I also have to account for how hot I’m going to get while walking places—which is something I hadn’t really had to think about before because I was driving everywhere and not moving as much.
So now I start by opening the window every day and sticking my hand out to get a feel for the baseline temperature, then I either add or take off layers based on that. So, in terms of how much I’m wearing, it’s changed quite a bit.
Maureen: That’s so interesting because, you know, I would think that the key change would be like, “I dress more fabulously now.” And I think you’d probably say that’s the case—but so much of what I just heard in that answer is about very practical changes. You’re more exposed to the elements, you’re walking more.
It’s really interesting to talk about car culture and how that affects what we wear versus public transport culture. For me, I live in a car place right now in the Bay Area. And that means that, for example, when I was in Seattle recently, I wore Birkenstocks everywhere because the whole point was walking. But in the Bay Area, depending on what you’re doing, you’re just driving up to a restaurant. It’s really different.
How do you find ways to be creative with that practical requirement versus just defaulting to what’s most convenient? Is there tension there at all?
Ofelia: I think it really depends on the outdoor elements. One of my biggest struggles is the rain. I don’t have a solid rain shoe, and it’s actually really interesting—when we moved in December last year, I didn’t realize how rainy January and winter in general would be. It rained a lot.
At the time, I only had a few pairs of shoes, and the ones I wore most were suede tennis shoes—not great for rain. So now, as we’re approaching that season again, I’m thinking, “Okay, I really need to get a rain shoe figured out.” I could wear tennis shoes, but my feet would get soaked. I still remember the feeling of my toes being wet outside!
So yes, there is tension—but it’s mostly between utility and aesthetics. Like, how is this going to be cute while still functional?
It’s interesting, though, because when we talk about comfort, I think that changes from person to person, but also within the same person from place to place.
Before the pandemic, I would wear leggings, a sweater, and tennis shoes—that sounded comfortable to me. But in Paris, that’s frowned upon. I don’t really wear leggings outside of working out anymore.
Now, when I think of comfort, I think, okay, I’m dressing down, but I’m still wearing jeans. Depending on the season, that might mean a flowy blouse or, like today, a sweater layered over a t-shirt.
This morning I was wearing loafers, but I had to run an errand and changed into tennis shoes. The tension is still there, but I kind of balance it out throughout the day—appeasing one side of my brain at a time. Sometimes I’ll think, “My toes need a break,” so I’ll wear tennis shoes today so I can wear cute flats tomorrow.
Maureen: Yeah, and maybe this is encouragement—but I’d love if you wrote a post about what Parisians wear in the rain! The Bay Area is surprisingly rainy—we really only have two seasons, the wet and the dry. When it rains, it pours. I’ve been trying to figure out my own rain situation, so very selfishly, I’d love a post on that.
Ofelia: On it. I think I have more mental capacity this year to do it versus last year.
Maureen: I have a bit of an ephemeral question, but I’m hoping you’ll go there with me. I’d love to talk about the intersection between your film photography and your interest in personal style. How do those two relate to you? And how do they differ?
Ofelia: I think that’s actually a really interesting question. I think they both exist on a spectrum, and I’d say they’re quite similar in a few senses.
Film photography has so many ranges within it, right? I’m not sure how familiar you are with film cameras, but you can buy a point-and-shoot, a disposable, or you can get really technical and buy manual cameras where you’re adjusting every tiny thing.
And I think when we also think about style, it’s similar. We can hop on the trends and say, “I like that, I like that,” and that’s totally valid and fine. Or we can really discern what we actually like—what makes us feel interested or alive, what gives us that fun spark inside.
For me, film photography does that—it gives me that same sense of discovery and play. So when I compare both mediums, they’re on the same spectrum. One is often more expensive and technical, while the other can be looser and more forgiving.
Maureen: And which one feels more technical for you personally?
Ofelia: For me, film photography is more technical.
In terms of style, I guess let me backtrack a little. I didn’t really start thinking about how I was getting dressed until post-pandemic, which is interesting because that’s also when I started getting into film photography—around the same time.
A while back, I wrote an article about what I called the Five Hierarchies of Fashion. At the very base level, you just need something to wear. Once that need is satisfied, you might start asking, “Do I actually like what I’m wearing?”
Then, after that, you start thinking about the fabrics—how they feel on your body, how long they last. Once you’ve figured that out, maybe you start asking about sustainability practices.
So, to me, I’ve reached a certain level of technicality within fashion. But compared to others, I’m not extremely technical yet—like when it comes to proportions or sleeve cuts, I’m still learning.
So in that sense, film photography feels more technical for me because I dove deep into that world much more rapidly. But the technicality in fashion absolutely exists—it just depends on what people are interested in at a given moment. And those interests can shift drastically over the years.
Maureen: I’d love your perspective on that “ramp up” between the two. From my point of view, clothing technicality feels extremely high-effort and high-resource to climb, in terms of that hierarchy you mentioned. How do you feel the two compare? Does one have a higher barrier to entry than the other? Or does it just depend on your level of interest?
Ofelia: I think it depends on your level of interest.
You could very easily start flirting with film photography by picking up a point-and-shoot camera—it’s a little more advanced than a disposable, but maybe it has a zoom lens or lets you turn the flash on and off. That kind of gets you in the mindset of thinking, Okay, I want a slightly better photo than a disposable, but I’m not quite ready for full manual yet.
And fashion is similar. We can think, Okay, I want a white t-shirt. And that’s such a big, ongoing debate—what’s the best white t-shirt? But I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. It’s more like: What are you looking for? How do you want it to lay on your body? Do you want a baby tee? Do you want pointelle? Or even—do you want a white t-shirt at all?
And so I think it’s really the curiosity around what you’re trying to get to that pushes and propels you in that direction.
Maureen: Hmm, I love that. And such a good analogy too. You know, separately, I’ve been thinking about this same concept—I didn’t realize you had an amazing post on it! I’m going to read it right after and link it in the show notes.
I’ve been thinking about that idea of “levels” too. I feel like personally I’m phasing up into a higher level of personal style. For a while, I was just getting dressed, putting clothes on my body—it felt very survival mode, with some moments of joy and self-actualization.
But now I feel like I’m moving into a place of, oh, I really do like this, and I don’t connect with that, in a much more intentional and exciting way.
You kind of alluded to where you feel that you are—are you trying to go further up the ranks, or do you feel like you’re in a place of stasis? How do you think about that for yourself?
Ofelia: No, I don’t think personal style is ever-ending, to be honest. I think we all reach certain plateaus where we stay for a bit—we’re content where we are—and then something happens that propels us forward again.
When we allow ourselves perspective, that’s when those big jumps happen. What I mean is, you get up and get dressed every day, and eventually you realize, okay, I have a solid outfit that I really love.
For example, I love button-downs. I have so many ways I can style them. But then there comes a point where I think, I’ve worn a lot of button-downs lately… I need something else. How am I going to change this?
And it doesn’t always have to be an insane shift. Like this year, brooches have been huge—and still are. I saw people pin them along the button placket or on sleeves. Just yesterday, I saw someone—I think her name is Michelle Lynn, though I might be getting that wrong—who added a brooch to the back of her button-down. It created this really interesting silhouette, and I thought, Whoa, I never would’ve thought of that, but I kind of want to try it.
So I think I’m currently in between stages. I’m really happy with where I am, but it’s hard not to want to be here while also wanting to be there, if that makes sense. Sometimes I just wish someone could pull me up to the next level—but I know that’s not how it works.
Another hard part for me is that I’m a very slow shopper. My wishlist is endless, but if you put money in front of me and said, “Make a decision,” I’d freeze unless I’d been thinking about it for a long time. It’s both a blessing and a curse.
So, to answer your question, I’m happy where I am—but I’m thinking about what will propel me toward where I want to go next.
Maureen: Yeah, and the brooch is a great example. Are there any other things that have caught your eye—things you’re thinking about trying? Is it more about styling, or specific garments?
Ofelia: There are definitely a lot of garments I’d love to try. And honestly, I wish there were more rental options like Rent the Runway here in France. There are a few, but they’re mostly geared toward special occasions—like weddings or formal events.
I’d love to be able to rent everyday pieces just to experiment. For example, I’m really fascinated by suede. I’d love to try—well, one day I’d love to own a suede jacket—but suede is such a personal material. You really have to try on a lot to find the right fit.
I love it on other people, but I haven’t yet found one that makes me want to actually splurge, because it’s not cheap.
But I think one thing that I’m fascinated by—and I actually did try, I just didn’t buy at that time—mules.
Paloma Wool, the Spanish brand, had a pop-up in Paris during the early summer. And I actually went in because I just happened to be perusing—I love perusing—and this pair of sandals caught my eye. I went back before it closed, and they happened to have the mules. I was like, you know what, I’ll just try them on. And they were these beautiful mules, but they had calf hair on them.
It’s not something that I would ever, ever consider on a website. But the fact that I tried it on and I was like, wait a second, this is actually really, really cool—since then, I’ve been fascinated with this idea of a mule, but like also the idea of a mule as a very cool statement piece, if that makes sense.
Maureen: That’s awesome. I’m also thinking about how to… well, I came from the other direction of—I love calf hair and I’ve always loved calf hair—and I’m like, oh, how can I inject that into my style? I’m trying to figure out what garment to apply that on.
But I think that’s really interesting. There are so many different ways to conceptualize our wish lists. For me, it’s like I usually have a very specific concept in mind and I’m trying to find the right puzzle piece. Maybe you feel that way too—or even the suede jacket, it sounds like, or suede in general—is kind of like your equivalent of that.
And then there are also those little diamonds, you know, that really get the sparkle in our eye. There’s kind of a mix between those two that drives our taste and our excitement. Super interesting. I’m excited to see what happens for you with those.
I also, on that vein—I would consider you a tastemaker, right? You have the most beautiful flat lays, your series about what people are wearing. And even just hearing your take on being a very slow shopper yourself—I can just speak from my perspective—sometimes I feel like I need to personally embody the taste that I have in order to feel like I am a tastemaker.
How do you feel about that—the idea of embodying a taste versus having a taste and presenting it in a visual way? Is there tension for you between the two, or do you view them as separate?
Ofelia: I think, you know, there is a little bit of tension because I don’t consider myself a tastemaker. So you calling me a tastemaker—that’s so surprising. I’m insanely flattered, to be honest.
I think there is a bit of tension because maybe my idea of what a tastemaker is could be different. To me, a tastemaker is potentially ahead of the curve. They’re the ones maybe not dictating, but being interested in what’s fringe before it becomes popular. Obviously, fashion is cyclical, right? But they’re like the early adopters.
When we talk about technology, they’re the early adopters. And I feel like I’m a slow adopter in that sense, just from my consumption point of view.
But when I think of embodiment, I think the people who are the most authentic to themselves are those who wear their clothes and don’t let their clothes wear them—if that makes sense. It’s the individual, where they step into an outfit and it feels so much like them, regardless of where it falls within the trend cycle.
And, you know, it’s actually really interesting because I lean very minimal, but I am absolutely enamored and fascinated by women who wear bold prints—especially women who mix prints a lot—because my brain does not function like that, you know? So to me, I’m like, they are the tastemakers. They are the really cool people.
So maybe, to me, a tastemaker is someone who is the opposite of what I am.
Yeah, I think I need to sit with that one more.
Maureen: Well, I heard this quote a while ago that said, “When you’re an artist, you’re refining your art to a degree where you hope that it looks like someone else made it.” Like, it’s not going to be good enough until it doesn’t look like it was mine.
And I wonder if there’s a little bit of that tension here, where—certainly I don’t view myself as a tastemaker—but I put that out into the ether as something I wanted. And then someone was like, “I think of you as one.” And I was like, what?
Even just in our conversation, it’s the same kind of idea. To me, you’re a tastemaker not because you’re cutting edge, but because you’re extremely discerning and you have a very clear point of view of what you think is stylish and tasteful for you. And to me, that’s taste-making—because of the restraint.
I’m not saying my definition is right or yours is right or wrong—I like that they’re different.
Ofelia:I actually love the quote you brought up, and I think it healed many parts of me that were potentially broken. I very much agree with that quote, especially from my photography point of view.
I am so hypercritical of what I put out there. Sometimes it’s a struggle to share my work or even to write articles about style where I’m featured—like “What I Wore in Paris”—because I often think, well, what if it’s boring? What if no one likes it?
And I have to push myself to go back to, Why did I start writing? Why did I start photography? Why did I start sharing? It’s because I wanted to. I wanted to put my voice out there. And if I like it, if I felt good wearing that outfit—who cares what Sally, Sue, and Betty down the street think, you know?
I think the theme of this entire conversation is going to be tension. It actually makes me think of something—whenever I’m walking down the street with my husband, my brain just kind of turns off. Like, you know that gif of the little penguin walking? That’s me with my husband. My brain turns off, I’m just following him wherever we’re going.
And he’s like, “Do you notice all the people that stare at you when we’re walking down the street?” And I’m like, “No, I don’t.” And he’s like, “Yeah. It’s men and women.” And I’m like, “Oh, I’ve never really noticed.” And he’s like, “Yeah, a lot of people turn and look at you.”
And it’s really interesting because my first response is, Why are they doing that? Then I think, Is there something on my outfit? Do I have toilet paper on my shoe? It’s so interesting how your brain just wants to bring you down several notches while the rest of the world sees you in such a different light.
That kind of reminds me of that quote—it’s like, we want to be perceived so differently from our own point of view. But when other people recognize us for who we are, it’s like, wait a second, what’s going on here?
Maureen: Mm-hmm. I think this, to me, is a healing conversation too. Because for so much of my life, I’ve taken in fashion content by other people. And yes, you can write about insecurity, you can express uncertainty—but having a larger discussion about is this good enough? Am I good enough? Is the outfit good enough?—that’s so real.
You didn’t say those exact words, but I think that’s the core of the discussion: this feeling of enoughness. What is enough?
And when you’re a passive consumer of other people’s fashion or personal style content, it can be hard not to assume it’s always sunshine and rainbows and this confident glow that’s just always there. But maybe that’s not the case for everyone. Maybe some people do have that.
But I really appreciate you sharing that—it’s not always super easy.
Ofelia: It’s not — and I’m sure everyone, even the people who we think have it all together, have scenarios like this, or at least days, at a minimum. But definitely, they’ve experienced that before.
Maureen: Well, and just to reiterate, I’ve gotten that perspective from you — and I mean that in a very genuine, “I’m inspired by you” way. And so it is very easy to put on those rose-colored glasses and say, oh, it must be easy for her.
And to that point, I’m sure I am thinking of other creators too. But, you know, even within this conversation, I’d love to talk a little bit more about your personal style and how you choose what to buy and wear.
You know, we talked about being a slow adopter — I’m also a slow adopter, so I relate. But how do you decide what to buy and what not to buy? Or it sounds like mostly what not to buy.
Ofelia: What not to buy!
So, I actually keep — something that I started a long time ago — two types of wish lists. Because I’m a very practical shopper, I’ll say. There’s the I need this list versus the oh, that was kind of cool, that was intriguing to me list.
And I love to peruse and look at websites and even walk into stores, touch things and feel things, and really immerse myself in the experience. Based off of that, things shift — maybe they move on or off the list. It’s like this little teeter-totter situation.
And then I think, also, when I experience a great amount of tension, that’s when purchases happen for me.
So I assure you, probably in the next few months, I will have some sort of rain shoe on my feet. At this point, for example, I haven’t tried them on yet, but I am considering Salomons because they have a waterproof version. I have to actually do a little more research on that. And it’s something I’ve resisted for a long time, but I was like, okay, if this is what’s going to get me to the next step — potentially a different type of rain shoe — then that’s the direction I need to go.
But in terms of what I typically buy, those have been scenarios where I’m like, I really need a trench coat. I really need a trench coat. So that was one of my purchases last fall, and I have worn that trench coat so, so much. It’s one of my favorite purchases I’ve made.
And for example, I kid you not, I’ve probably tried on over 20 trench coats.
Maureen: I believe you!
Ofelia: I don’t recommend that!
And actually, I did a lot of trying on in Paris when we were here looking for an apartment, thinking like, okay, well, I’m going to find one. Where else am I going to find one in the fall? In Paris!
Turns out, I found it literally close to home. I went home, tried on something that I saw on the rack, and I was like, I’ve been in this store hundreds of times — why have I never even considered it?
And so I think tension — in terms of how much I think of something — really dictates purchasing for me.
And then, in terms of the fun wishlist — and this is something I’m trying to do for myself — every time I hit a thousand new subscribers on Substack, I buy myself a fun gift.
So when I hit my first thousand, I bought myself a — like, I don’t like the name Butter Yellow, but it’s called Butter Yellow…
Maureen: Rebrand it.
Ofelia: Rebrand Butter Yellow!
Maureen: Gosh. Do you have a word for it?
Ofelia: BananaYellow? No, it’s horrible. Just a light yellow.
I bought a light yellow, kind of collarless jacket. And is it the most practical color? No. Was there a black option? Yes. But what gave me joy was the color yellow.
So I bought it. And I’ve worn it to dinner, I’ve worn it just around town doing nothing — and it just makes me happy.
And it reminds me of like, oh, I bought this when I hit a thousand subscribers. And so I told myself that every time I hit that milestone, I’m going to buy myself something fun. And so I kind of go to the other list and look — okay, well, what is giving me that energetic feel of a purchase that doesn’t feel like I need it?
I think that’s the way I teeter and totter between the two. But yes, I don’t buy a lot, actually. And I think it’s just because I try something on and then I’m like, ah, that’s not what I had in mind. It just doesn’t fit the way I thought it did. Or maybe I find something else, or I fall in love with something else that’s similar. So, yeah.
Maureen: I love the Salomon idea — going back, like, with a trench? I don’t know, I think that could be cool.
Ofelia: Right? I’m warming up to the idea. I’m trying to decide — I need to go in and look at the colors. I know white is the classic. I don’t think I’d want black. But if there was a brown tone, that could work. That could potentially work. But stay tuned — we’ll see.
Maureen: I bought a pair this summer — they’re hiking ones. I actually wear them to hike, that’s why I bought them. But I definitely have had a few moments where I’m like, ooh, these are very nice. They are reasonably styled, you know what I mean? Like they have a form factor to them that I find interesting.
Maureen: I don’t know — just throwing it out there.
Ofelia: I’ve been working on a “What brands Parisians are wearing” article, and Salomons are one of them. They are wearing those.
Maureen: You know, I’m excited to read that one as well.
So let’s talk about body awareness. This is kind of the concept of embodiment — slightly different from how we were talking about it earlier — more about how things feel on our bodies. How do we feel when we wear specific textures, fits, or styles? Are there things that you gravitate towards or away from because of how they make you feel or feel on your body?
Ofelia: think, in essence, I gravitate toward things that bring ease into my life.
For example — two contradicting things (they’re both dresses, but in my mind, they’re different). I love smocked-top dresses in the summer. One, I hope it’s okay to say, I don’t like wearing a bra in the summer. So I like the idea of just putting something on — and so far, I’ve been fortunate enough that it works.
And also, having lived in stupid hot weather for so long, any additional layer was just too much. So I still go back to that — the ease of throwing something on in the summer makes me feel put together. Especially when it’s hot outside and your senses are overloaded.
On the flip side — and it also gives me ease — last summer, I bought a knit dress. It’s not body-con, but it does hug your curves. I remember I was trying something else on in the store and the sales associate brought it to me. I told her, I’m not going to like this.
Because I have hips — things fit me differently compared to someone else who doesn’t. And I just knew I wasn’t going to like it. But she said, just try it on.
So I did. And I kid you not — I gasped. I was shocked at how beautiful I felt in that dress.
And I think it had to do with the weight of the cotton. It lays beautifully — it doesn’t contract or cling. It still lets you breathe and move, even while it shows your shape. And I thought, wow, I’ve never felt this beautiful in a dress that was seemingly this tight.
So I think ease has a lot to do with that — especially in summer.
But also in winter — especially fall/winter, when you’re often covered by outer layers — I’m most likely in jeans, a t-shirt, and a sweater. There’s nothing necessarily groundbreaking about that, unless you have a really cool sweater that maybe has armholes, or you can tie it a certain way.
So I also gravitate toward pieces that give me ease and make me feel put together, even when I’m doing something repetitive.
And — unfortunately or fortunately for me — I really love the feel and fit of vintage Levi’s. I own 501s and 505s. They’re not cheap, and they take a long time to find the right pair. But I love that you can’t rely on the label.
I have two different pairs — technically different styles, different sizes — and I never once thought about that. Growing up, I was very fixated on fitting into a specific size because a company told me I needed to. So I love that the illusion of that is gone — now I just look for what fits me.
And I don’t know what voodoo they put in those jeans, but the fit is just fantastic. Maybe it’s the denim they used back then.
Maureen: When it’s that perfect amount of wear — it’s worn in but not saggy?
Ofelia: Exactly. In the denim specifically, yes.
Maureen: And I think you mentioned something about versatility — like wearing something day in, day out. Is that a form of ease for you, being able to wear something without getting sick of it? Or is it also about how it functions in your life?
Ofelia: Yeah — yes, I think it has to do with versatility too.
When I think about the clothes I wear most, it’s always the ones that fit more than one scenario — or silhouettes that adapt to different ones. I love a wide-leg jean, but I love them even more with a pointy shoe.
When I wear a wide-leg jean — and I only own one type of them — I haven’t yet tested out other pairings. But I find that I feel best when there’s a pointed shoe involved.
And when there isn’t, I don’t love it — even though I love that piece in another scenario. If that makes sense.
Maureen: I find that so interesting — where our particular point of view and our body and how we want our body to look comes into play. You know, going back to the film photography metaphor — one of the big differences I’d say between film as an art expression versus how we dress ourselves as a creative expression is that film doesn’t reflect our body image or how we feel about our bodies.
And I’m not saying you’re talking about your body, but there is an aesthetic preference — like, for example, with the pointed-toe shoe for how you want to wear a wide leg.
For me, the difference with film is that it’s less personal. With clothing, it’s much harder to nail because it’s so tied to how we view ourselves and how we want to be perceived. A photograph can be part of us, but it’s not connected to how we feel in our bodies.
And going back to the wide-leg pant example — I personally like how wide-leg pants look with any type of shoe on me. I think it’s fascinating how we can have the same item but different aesthetic preferences for how it looks on us versus someone else.
Like, for example, I love how a straight-leg pant looks on other people with a sneaker, but I hate that combination on me. And instead, I love a wide-leg pant with a sneaker — because you can’t see it.
Ofelia: Yeah, because the sneaker disappears.
Maureen: Exactly! So again, there’s that tension between what we like on ourselves versus what we like on others — and how we make sense of that.
Ofelia: 100%. And it actually reminds me of something Heather Hurst said a long time ago in one of her videos. She was trying on a ton of different jeans, and everyone in the comments was like, “Oh, what straight-leg jean is that?” And she said, “It’s actually a bootcut.”
You know, it’s like — to you, it’s perceived as one thing, but on my body it gives the illusion of something else. And that really stuck with me. It’s this idea that we need to lean into what we feel good in — not what something is labeled as, or what it’s “supposed” to be.
Like, “Oh, I need to buy this because it’s a straight leg,” or “I should wear that because it’s trendy.” No. It’s really about what works for you.
And I also think we’re way more critical of ourselves than others are of us. Like, I’m sure if I showed up to your house in a wide-leg jean and sneakers, you’d be like, “That’s fabulous.” But I’d be like, “I’m so sorry, I just ran out the door and this is all I had.”
I think that’s super fair too — because we’re all moving within our own little “fashion hierarchy.” Maybe for you, a wide-leg pant with a sneaker is just like — “these are clothes.” But for me, that combination might feel more elevated.
And neither one is wrong. They just mean different things to us. And I think that’s kind of amazing, actually.
Maureen: Yeah— that’s beautifully said. And I think they should mean different things, because that means we’re comparing ourselves only to our own standard, not someone else’s.
Ofelia: Exactly. Because we’ll fail every time if we measure ourselves by someone else’s standard.
Maureen: A thousand percent.
So, what advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Ofelia: I think, generally, you should start by figuring out what you like and don’t like. And one great way to do that — actually, I have two — is to take a picture every day and write down what you liked or didn’t like about what you wore.
And I don’t mean just how it looked, but how it felt. You can absolutely note if something flatters a certain part of your body or not, but try not to tear yourself down in that process. You want to build yourself up.
Approach it curiously — like, “What can I learn from this outfit today? What did I like? What didn’t I?”
Because one of the biggest impulses we have is to go out and buy something new. But I’d say — don’t do that right away. Sit with your closet. Work within that tension.
One thing I did years ago was hang all my hangers backward — so when I took something off, I had to unhook it the other way. After a month or two, anything still hanging backward meant I hadn’t worn it.
Now, you can use wardrobe-tracking apps like Indyx, but I’m a very visual person, so seeing it in my closet was really powerful.
Then, I’d take those unworn pieces off the hangers, put them in a black bag, and leave it in the corner of my closet for a month or two. If I didn’t think about any of those pieces during that time — I wouldn’t even open the bag. I’d just donate it or give it to a friend to sell.
And that really helped me let go. I honestly can’t tell you a single thing that was in those bags I donated years ago. Not one thing.
So, to me, that says those items were just taking up space — in my closet and in my mind.
Once you’ve created enough space — physically and mentally — then you can start rendezvousing with new pieces out in the world.
Maureen: Such good advice — and hard advice to actually follow. It’s tough, respectfully. But you’re so right. It is important to sit with the clothes we already have and learn from them before we spend all of our money and time elsewhere.
Thank you so much, Ofelia. This was lovely. Where can listeners find you?
Ofelia: You can find me on All The Above on Substack. I’m also on Instagram, TikTok, and I’m sometimes pinning things on Pinterest. I believe my username for all of them is just @ofeliarig.
Maureen: Cool handle.
Ofelia: I hope you come hang out.
Maureen: Awesome. I’ll make sure to link to all of those in the show notes. Thank you again for joining me — this was a delight.
Ofelia: Thank you so much for having me.
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.
So that was probably like 2023. I was dabbling, just kind of casually posting once in a while. And then I made a pact to myself: in January of 2024, my New Year’s resolution was I’m going to post a video a day. Might miss some days, if that happens, that’s cool. But I’m going to post nonstop for all of 2024 and just see what happens.
And that’s honestly how it started. I started with outfit videos and then a lot of people were asking where I got my clothes and how I was finding them, and that turned into more thrifting videos, which is really my niche little corner of the internet. So it’s been wonderful. I’ve created an incredible community of people, and that is really the gift of it all. It’s not the PR, it’s the people. But yeah, that’s why I started.
Maureen: Yeah. And what’s the experience been like to actually be posting and being online? How does it feel?
Cara: Yeah. So I would say that at first, when I first got started and really started pouring effort into creating content, it was overwhelming. You know, I didn’t understand how to use the platforms, how to edit. I wasn’t in like a rhythm of filming and I kind of got burnt out.
And I feel like that happens to a lot of creators when they first start out. They’re like, oh, I’m gonna do all of this stuff and keep going and going and going, and then nothing’s gonna happen, so I’m just gonna give up. And if that doesn’t happen to everybody, that’s amazing, but a lot of the people that I’ve spoken to, that happens to.
So that was really frustrating at first, and I just kind of soldiered through it, brought those concerns to the community of people that were actually cheering me on every single day. And they were like, just keep going, just keep doing it. And that’s what I’ve been doing, and that’s the mentality I’ve had.
Instead of killing myself trying to create content, I kind of have now found a way to incorporate it into my everyday life. So I have a routine. I film my outfit video in the same location every day, same time. If I’m going thrifting, I automatically have my little tripod and I’m filming everything. Everything is content for me now, which has really changed the way that I’m interacting with creating content.
Editing gets a lot easier after you know how to do it—that’s probably one of the hardest things to learn. And then also just communicating with people and engaging, that’s important too. And I think that setting time limits for yourself for that is also really important, because I think it’s really easy to get caught up in, “Oh, I have to reply to every single comment.” You should, you should, you know, for your sake and your page—but I think also you need to get out of the online world and into your real life a lot.
That’s just something that I had to kind of learn along the way and along the journey as well.
Maureen: It’s like set time limits for yourself to do those interactions and that engagement. And I wanted to ask you about this because, you know, as a creator myself in different ways, I find so many parallels with the experience of writing content with the experience of personal style.
In the way that you have to try new things, especially if you want your personal style to move in a new direction or if you’re trying to push yourself out of your comfort zone—it can take time to get used to. And so I just think it’s really fun to see the comparison, and not just talk about personal style all the time, because I think it’s good to have inspiration from everywhere.
So I guess I’m curious—with that disclaimer—how, if anything, do you think your personal style has changed through being a content creator? Or do you feel that it’s pretty similar?
Cara: Yeah, no, my style has definitely changed. And I attest that to the fact of documentation. Literally, that was my pact to myself for 2024: every day I’m waking up and posting a video. So every day I have footage of myself on camera. And in doing that, you kind of see—oh, that looks good (or what I think looks good, because that’s all relative). Or, oh, I can really see the way that I’m more confident in this outfit versus that outfit. Why is that?
You notice things like, oh, I’m wearing this skirt in a lot of videos—that must be one of my staple items that I’m reaching for all the time. Those things just kind of naturally happen. It’s been super interesting, because pre-documentation, my style was just kind of all over the place. So if anything, it’s really helped me hone in on what I prefer to wear.
And also I get inspired by other content creators and celebrities, because I’m so online that I’m exposed to more—which is really cool. Like, I’ll see something and think, “Ooh, I like that. I would have never thought to do that, but let me see if I can go thrift that.” And it’s just been really fun.
If anything, I just feel more like myself now than ever before, which is really, really cool.
Maureen: I want to stick on that for a second. What does it mean to feel like yourself? Maybe an example or a moment—you mentioned looking back at videos and noticing that you’re more confident in a particular outfit versus another. What does that confidence look like to you in the video? How can you see it now in a way that maybe you didn’t see in the moment?
Cara: Yeah, I think it’s overall body posture—or the way I’m looking at myself in the camera. Because I don’t always film with the back camera, even though you’re “supposed” to. I still use my front camera a lot, so I’m literally looking at a mirror of myself. And I can tell—in certain looks—I’m feeling myself more.
Like, you know when you’re feeling yourself and when you’re not. There are certain moments where I’m like, “Oh, I’m really working this.” And I don’t mean that in a cocky way, I mean it in a very reflective, real-time way, like: wow, you’re really feeling yourself.
That’s been cool and interesting, because especially as somebody who lives in a larger body, I normally wouldn’t put on a tight shirt and think, “I feel great about myself.” But then when I’m reacting in real time to the footage of myself, I’m like, “No, I’m actually feeling myself. This feels good.”
And it kind of makes you think—maybe I’ve been doing this wrong the whole time. Like, it doesn’t matter what size I am. I can wear whatever I want as long as I feel good, it’s comfortable, and it’s what I like. That’s all that matters.
Maureen: Yeah. I mean, personally, I’m struggling with that right now, so I’d love to talk about it more—these limiting beliefs about what we can and cannot wear based on what our body looks like. Or even more than that—for me, it’s about what we’re used to seeing or not seeing.
And for me personally—and I mean this with no pressure, only gratitude—watching you wear just the best things (and just looking cool, in my subjective perspective) has been encouraging. And in your subjective perspective, I can feel when you’re feeling yourself.
It’s been really beautiful to see your work and what you’re wearing. I feel very encouraged, because there are some things I’ve told myself not to wear. And I’m actively looking for examples that tell me otherwise, and then trying to experience that myself.
Maureen: I wanted to go back to what you were saying about maybe in the past you wouldn’t have wanted to wear a particular type of tight t-shirt or something like that. Can you walk me through—if you can think of it—the experience of getting comfortable with that? Like, let’s say you just wore it one time. Did you immediately feel comfortable, or was it something you had to try over and over again? What was that like?
Cara: Yeah, it’s definitely not immediate. I would say that, just like you mentioned, seeing other people be so okay with styling pieces they might not necessarily be “told” to pick—that helps. Like, you see another size 16 wearing a little baby tee and you think, “Why can’t I do that?” So you try it, and at first you’re like, “Maybe this isn’t right.” Then you do it again, and you’re like, “No, I think it could be good.” Then you find your perfect baby tee and you’re like, “Oh no, this is me.”
So it’s not quick or immediate. Even now, if I wake up and put on a baby tee, it just might not be a baby tee kind of day. And that’s okay too. You just have to be kinder to yourself and realize that’s part of growing into being comfortable with your body.
I’m 33, turning 34 this month, and it’s still a battle I think I’ll face the rest of my life. But I’m at a point where I’m very happy with my body no matter what I’m wearing, because I know I’m healthy, and I know this is the size I’m supposed to be. Instead of trying to negate that, I’ve learned to be nicer to myself and say, “Okay, this is what I look like. And that’s great.”
I’ve gotten so many messages since the big Chloë Sevigny and Zoë Kravitz recreations from girls saying, “Oh my gosh, thank you for doing this. It’s so good to see these clothes on a larger body. You’ve inspired me.” Hearing that is such a reminder that I’m not alone—I’ve never been alone. So many people are going through the same thing. Let’s band together, gas each other up, and just not care—as long as you feel good and comfortable, that’s really what matters.
Of course, there will always be people who say, “You shouldn’t be wearing that top. You shouldn’t be wearing that baby tee.” And that’s fine. They don’t have to agree with the fact that it looks great on me—I know it does. So I guess the long-winded answer is: just wear it. Even if it feels wrong at first, believe that it’s right, and eventually, you’ll get there.
Maureen: Part of the reason I wanted to talk through this with you is I recently wrote about barriers to dressing intuitively. The idea is that your body can tell you what does and doesn’t feel comfortable or right for you. I wanted to shed light on the fact that sometimes your body can tell you something doesn’t feel safe just because it’s new. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not something you want—or could want—in the future.
And that’s something I’m working on right now: how to know the line between “my body tells me not to do this because I’m not used to it” versus “this really isn’t something I want.” I may need to work on that for a while. But hearing you talk about it makes me feel less alone.
Cara: Not at all. There’ve been so many moments like that in my life where I’ve questioned and then questioned again. And sometimes, those are pieces I just shouldn’t be wearing. Like, if I’m fussing with something too much, I don’t want to wear it. I don’t want it on my body. That happens.
But if the hesitation comes from society saying I shouldn’t wear something, versus what I actually want to wear—that just takes testing the waters.
Maureen: Yeah, yeah. Are there any other examples you can think of, where you’ve learned something actually isn’t a good fit for you? Even if you’d love to wear it, it just doesn’t really work for you?
Cara: Yeah, absolutely. I would love nothing more than to be able to wear like a slinky little backless dress and like have to wear no bra or no tape or no like plastic things on my chest to get through that. That’s something I really struggle with. I see so many, even curvy girls, who are wearing, like, backless dresses and looking so unbelievably good. I just can’t do that because I have a larger chest. I need the proper support, and to be able to achieve that look and have the proper support, I end up, like, hurting myself or, like, ripping the skin off my chest, you know?
So I think that’s definitely one of those style moments that’s just not for me. No matter how hard I try, no matter what special products get invented to magically hold the girls where they’re supposed to go. So that’s definitely, yeah, that’s definitely a thing for me is a little backless number.
Maureen: Yeah, I get it. I mean, we do have to have those limits where we’re listening to, oh, this really doesn’t feel good. Yeah, it doesn’t feel good to have tape on my chest, unfortunately. That makes sense to me.
Going back to, you know, you were saying that you can tell when you’re feeling yourself in your outfit. And that’s totally coming across. Like, you just seem to be having so much fun getting dressed. How are you feeling about getting dressed? Like, is it fun? Is it just something that you’re enjoying? Like, what’s your current relationship to your closet or clothing in general?
Cara: Yeah, no, I’m definitely having fun getting dressed. I love waking up every, it’s like every day is a new opportunity to just like be whoever I want to be. I’m not one of those people who plans out their outfits for the whole week. I actually envy those people because that would make my life so much easier. I think that’s so cool when people can do that.
I just can’t do that because I have to wake up, like you’re saying, and really dress intuitively, like see what I want to feel. Oh, I don’t want that to touch my skin or, oh, yeah, okay, I’m okay with something tight today. So I love waking up every morning and like picking an outfit. And sometimes what I’ll do is just scroll Pinterest when I’m drinking my coffee in the morning and be like, oh, I’m going to try that layer or like, oh, I really like this color combo. So it’s like a fun kind of creative game for me at this point.
Um, and I want to just keep doing it. I just like, I love getting dressed even, even on the days when I’m just like going to the flea market at seven o’clock in the morning, I’m still like putting some thought into my clothes. And that’s really fun because before, I mean, I would, I think I go through lulls as well.
And I think content creation has helped me stay out of the lull because there’s almost like a, not have to, but an expectation of getting dressed. And I kind of love that because it like has forced me. Whereas before I might just throw on like an oversized t-shirt and a pair of cutoffs. Like that’s still cool. And that still might be my outfit of choice, but like, I’m going to think about it a little bit more.
So yeah, I’m having a great time getting dressed in the morning. I think everybody should have a great time getting dressed in the morning.
Maureen: I hope that too. I don’t know that that’s the case, but I would love for more people to experience that.
What would you say is the difference between, you know, like you mentioned, sometimes you want to wear an oversized t-shirt and cutoffs, and that’s a choice. What’s the difference between making that choice versus just like maybe the alternative, like just putting it on out of ease or something like that, what is the difference in either the mindset or the experience of wearing the clothes in either of those situations where you may be wearing the same outfit, but the experience of choosing to wear it is different?
Cara: I think there’s a couple different factors. I mean, for me, probably the number one difference between bad outfit two different ways is the way I’m feeling about myself or my mood or, you know, if it’s a good day or a bad day, because we all have those.
So, you know, I think that could be considered a comfort outfit in some situations. And I would just then pair it with like some burks and not do my hair, you know. But if it’s a good day, maybe I put that on with some cowboy boots and a crocheted little handkerchief, you know. So like I think it just depends on my mood, how I’m feeling about myself, how I’m feeling about my body because you know as women we’re on a cycle so like our hormones are designed to kind of make us feel a certain way and sometimes you just don’t, you just can’t do it, you just can’t get excited about getting dressed.
But in those situations I always say you should have a comfort outfit or a comfort look and that has also been something that’s extremely helpful to me as somebody who just wakes up and gets dressed every morning and doesn’t plan out my outfits because I know like okay if I put that on I’m going to feel good regardless of what I feel and my mood is today I’m going to feel good in that outfit.
So love that. It’s good to have that comfort blanket outfit. You need it. Everybody needs it. Everybody needs at least, and if it’s not an outfit, it’s comfort pieces. Like, oh, I know that skirt is really comfortable. It’s soft on my skin. It looks good on me no matter if it’s a good day or bad day. And it goes with every top I have. You know, like pieces like that are so important.
So I recommend everybody has a top, a bottom, and a jacket that makes them feel that way or a sweater or something.
Maureen: Jackets are hard for me. I never find jackets I like. They always ruin my outfit.
Cara: See, I’m the opposite. I’m like, put a jacket on, it makes it. I’m like, this is my little cocoon of happiness.
Maureen: That’s so interesting. Everybody’s different. I also selfishly love that you talked about accessories changing the outfit because I feel like accessories are everything. The best things that I have in my closet are my accessories.
Cara:The one thing that I would honestly probably — like, I have a hard time spending a lot of money, like paying full price for an item. I would 100% pay full price for an accessory — piece of jewelry, a scarf, whatever. Because I just think no matter what, you can throw it on and it makes or breaks an outfit.
I could not agree more. And this is also, I wanted to say, you rock cowboy boots in particular.
But this is a perfect segue into how you decide what to buy and where. I know that you thrift a lot. It sounds like accessories get that full-price spot, but how else do you decide what comes home with you or what you leave at the thrift store?
Cara: This has evolved throughout my life. I’m in my thirties now, but in my twenties, it was like: you see it, you love it, you buy it.
I was buying way too much, spending way too much money, was not saving when I should have been in a time where I was in the space in my life where I could save. And that taught me a lesson. Now in my 30s, where I have a lot more bills and things to pay for, I can’t do that anymore.
So I have this desire to want everything, but I really have to edit and be more selective with what I’m buying because I’m on a budget. And I think a lot of people are, especially nowadays. It’s expensive just to exist on this planet.
So the things that come home with me have to be things that I love, not just things that I think are cute. In one of my series, I call it “Ooh, that’s cute” — when I go to the thrift store and show you guys everything I think is cute. That is different than actually loving a piece.
Loving a piece is:
* You see it and you think it’s cute.
* You try it on, it fits you.
* You try it on, it feels good on you.
* You don’t already have something like it or similar.
So I’m being super selective with my closet edits. The things I’m purchasing have to be items I know I’m going to re-wear at least five times. I’m not just buying one-off pieces because they just take up space.
And that’s another thing: I don’t have a lot of storage in my apartment. My closet is packed to the gills. So it’s only things I really love.
I’m fortunate, though, that people trust me to go out and shop for them in the thrift store and do style bundles. So I get to kind of feed that little shopping beast by shopping for other people, which is really fun.
But yeah, I would say you have to love the piece and it has to be something that you’re going to wear multiple times in multiple different categories or occasions. It could be layered, it could be worn in the summer, it could be worn in the winter.
Maureen: Well, let’s talk about when you shop for your Chloë Sevigny or Zoë Kravitz posts. How literal would you say you go? I mean, I know when you’re thrifting, it kind of depends on what you can find. But I’m curious: what have you learned about your personal style through recreating their looks? How has that influenced you?
Cara: I definitely have learned that I have certain things I gravitate towards. Natural fabrics being one of them — cotton, denim, linen, silk.
A lot of times when I’m shopping for these dupe celebrity outfits, I’ll find something that’s polyester and be like, nope, I’m not going to buy that. Even though it’s an exact match, I won’t wear it again — and I know that. So I’m really trying to only get stuff I’ll actually re-wear.
It’s taught me that my editing skills on closet selection have gotten so in tune that I’m even applying that when completing a look. Ten years ago, that would not have been the case. Ten years ago I would’ve been like, “Just give me whatever as long as it’s an exact match and it fits.”
Also, it’s taught me that I know what cuts of things look better on my body. Especially now that I’ve been documenting — like, a lot of Zoë Kravitz’s looks have really low pants. She’s notorious for showing off her navel area. I’m very seldom going to do that. I might show a little slice of belly, but you’re not getting below the belly button.
So her pants might be more low-rise style, whereas I’m literally never going to buy that. For me, it’s going to be a mid-rise. So just the way things fit me, I’ve been able to edit the outfits to fit my body shape rather than theirs.
Maureen: Oh man, I feel like we could talk about this forever. It’s like — one of my mental blockers is exactly that. How do I be inspired by someone without wanting to recreate their outfit exactly?
And I can tell you, I’ve been working on this for years. I’ve made progress, but sometimes I still fall into that trap. So it’s awesome to hear that you’re figuring out how to recreate it your way.
Do you have any guidance for how to give the vibe of an outfit without recreating it? Like, say you’re not doing low-rise pants but you’re doing mid-rise. What’s the ethos — the underlying vibe you make sure to nail, even if the proportions are different on your body?
Cara: Yeah. I think the first thing I look at, as somebody with a creative brain, is texture, color, pattern.
So, you know, if someone has a plaid shirt on — plaid is a pattern, but those colors could also be recreated in a stripe or another pattern that’s not plaid. As long as you’re getting the colors right, that works.
If you can’t get the colors right but you can get the pattern right, you can alter the colors slightly.
And then texture — like corduroy. There’s thin corduroy, chunky corduroy. Paying attention to that matters too.
Also color in terms of overall vibe — is it earth-toned?
Is it cool toned? Is it warm toned? Is it really bright and bold? I think those things can translate. Like, somebody could be wearing a lime green outfit in a video or a photo, and then I can go to the thrift store and recreate it with lime yellow instead — because it’s basically the same vibe.
So instead of looking at individual pieces, you look at the outfit as an overall vibe. I know that sounds kind of cheesy, but that’s my ethos at least: what’s the vibe of this outfit, what am I going for? Can I pull some color, some pattern, some texture? That’s my mentality going into it.
Maureen: Totally. What I heard from that is it’s about composition and the overall effect, rather than the literal interpretation.
What is it about Zoë Kravitz or Chloë Sevigny that inspires you? Why them?
Cara: Oh, goodness — what doesn’t inspire me?
One, they’re both beautiful people, beautiful humans. And people, I think it’s human nature to be kind of awestruck by beautiful people. So that’s number one.
Number two is their effortlessness. I know it’s not actually effortless, because I’m sure they either have an intuitive way of thinking about what to wear or their stylists are curating things. But still — Chloë especially has been so iconic her whole life in terms of fashion.
She has this “I don’t give a frick” attitude of I’m going to wear what I want. I love that so much. And Zoë — Zoë nails the neutrals like nobody else. She can rock a black tank top and black pants like no other because of her accessories and the way she wears the outfit. Pairing things together that normally wouldn’t get paired together.
So I think it’s that cool girl aesthetic — combinations you wouldn’t necessarily expect, that really speaks to me. I just think they’re two of the coolest people ever.
And there might be some more people coming up on the list… a little teaser maybe. Because I can only recreate Zoë and Chloë for so long. I need to add in some other inspo.
Maureen: Ooh, I’m excited for that. Yeah. I mean, you do. You nail Cool Girl, just so you know. If you’ve ever wondered.
Cara: I appreciate that. I really appreciate that. If there’s one thing I could do, if I do that, I’m happy.
Maureen: You’re doing it. You’re doing it.
So — we talked a little bit about body awareness and how what you’re feeling in the morning affects what you end up wearing that day. Can you tell me more about that experience, or how you figure out what the day’s vibe is or isn’t?
Cara:Yeah. Especially living in Pennsylvania, the weather is always changing. There are four seasons here — sometimes it’s really hot, sometimes it’s really cold. That always factors in.
I hate — I repeat, hate — sweating in any way, shape, or form. I hate being hot. So if it’s summer, like this past week has been unbearable — humid, no wind, just heat — I don’t want to wear anything. I want to not put clothes on.
So having breathable fabrics like linen and cotton that I can just throw on, that look good but won’t make me sweat — that’s important.
Also, sometimes things just don’t feel good on your body. Like, today I’m wearing a more structured dress. Yesterday, I didn’t want anything structured. So I think it depends on listening to what my body is telling me.
I usually gravitate toward baggier fits instead of fitted ones, because I know I’ll always feel comfortable in that. Granted, there are situations where baggy doesn’t work — like work meetings or TV appearances for my job. I can’t show up in baggy fits.
So in those cases, finding pieces that fit closer to my body but are made of comfortable fabrics really helps.
So yeah — waking up, feeling the vibe, checking the weather, and deciding what genre I want to fit in. “Character” isn’t quite the right word, because I’m always myself. But like — which version of Cara I want to be that day.
Maureen: Well, and you also mentioned right, like Zoë or Chloë — those names work so well together — they’re genre-mixing even within a single outfit. That’s a strength you observed in them, and also something you’re doing so well yourself. That makes total sense. Like, why not? Why do we have to be one thing?
Cara: Yeah, no. And I think so many people get caught up in that. They want to look just like Jennifer Lawrence. They only want to wear things Jennifer Lawrence wears. But that’s not realistic. She has someone picking her clothes, shopping for her, buying all the things.
You have to be able to have pieces you love and instinctively put them together, and not care if it fits into a genre. That’s personal style: having all these little things in your wardrobe you love and wearing them a million different ways.
It’s easy to go out, buy something new, put it on once, and never wear it again. But that’s not what it’s about, in my opinion. And I’m not shaming anyone who does that — some people’s brains just work that way. But for me — our planet is a precious thing. To just one-off a clothing item? I could never.
And that’s one of the things I love about thrifting — all these discarded clothes at your fingertips. Yeah, they’ve been worn, yeah, they might be stained — but OxyClean exists for a reason. Figure it out. Let’s save the planet a little bit.
I’m not a poster child for being environmentally friendly, but that’s my part. That’s what I’ll continue to do.
So yeah: thrift your clothes, love your clothes, buy things you love, mix them together, and see if it works. If it doesn’t, don’t do it again.
Maureen: You’re really encouraging me to go thrifting this weekend.
Cara: I hope you do.
Maureen: I used to thrift all the time, and then it just got overwhelming. But now I’m like — I’ve got to try.
Cara: I will say, it has dramatically changed in the past couple of years. It really has. Prices at thrift stores nowadays are a little crazy. I’m very fortunate that in my area of Pennsylvania, we haven’t fallen to that too much.
But I went thrifting in Boston last summer when I went to see Noah Kahan in concert, and I randomly went into a Savers. We don’t have Savers in Pennsylvania. And I was like — whoa. A t-shirt was $7.99. I could buy a t-shirt at Old Navy for $7.99.
Normally my mentality isn’t like that, because I’m so conscious about discarding clothes and fashion waste. But I can understand why people would just say, “No, I’ll just order something from Old Navy and have it shipped to my house.” And I’m not an Old Navy hater — I love Old Navy. But I get the convenience of that versus thrifting.
That said, you can still find things at the thrift store you’ll never find online — unless you’re on Depop, Mercari, or eBay. It’s always a little treasure hunt. You never know what you’re going to find.
Maureen: Well, and you also have to find your store. Not every store, at least where I live, carries my size. Or if they do, there’s like two pieces. So it’s not a good use of my time to go to a store where I know I won’t find anything.
But there’s another store where I know I can find things because, for whatever reason, they carry more oversized clothing or some men’s stuff, and that fits better.
So I think that’s also a negotiation — like, what store even has the type of clothing I’d be looking for? And I’m trying to push past that mindset of, oh, this store didn’t have it, that store didn’t have it, therefore no stores will.
And then there’s another store near me that has almost no inventory at all. Ten years ago, they used to be packed with stuff. And now there’s so much need for clothing that every time I go in, it’s full of people but there’s nothing on the racks. People need things.
Cara: Yeah, you’re totally right. That’s definitely something I’ve seen as well. And you’re 100% right about the stores that fit with you and what you’re looking for. There are definitely stores around me that are more size-inclusive than others.
And based on inventory, I know which places I’ll find X, Y, and Z at. I’m fortunate to be able to thrift often, so I have a sense of what I’ll get at each store. But not everybody has that luxury — especially if they’re new to thrifting, or coming back to it after being away. It can feel really daunting.
That’s where secondhand apps can be a great resource. There’s actually an app called Gem — not a plug, but I use it all the time. You can save a wish list search, like “LL Bean barn jacket, size 2X,” and it will scan all the secondhand apps for you. Then you just click the one you like, and it takes you to buy it. So even if you don’t want to dig through racks in person, you can thrift online much more easily than before.
Maureen: Yeah, I’ll make sure to link Gem in the show notes. Again, not a sponsor.
Cara: Yeah, not at all — but I really recommend it.
Maureen: Cool. Another hard part is even figuring out what size you are when shopping online. How do you figure out what size to look for?
Cara: Measurements. That’s my number-one tip.
But don’t measure your body — measure your clothes laid flat. That’s the trick I use all the time, even when I’m thrifting in person. A lot of times I don’t want to change out of my clothes or put something dirty on, so I just measure it flat and compare to pieces I already own.
Most sellers list measurements. If they don’t, request them — and if they’re not willing to provide them, honestly, they shouldn’t be in the business. I keep a little mini measuring tape in all of my purses, and I use it everywhere, not just for thrifting. Even if you’re shopping in the mall, it’s super useful.
Especially for pants — jeans are tricky. I have pairs I like tight, and others that are baggy, and they measure completely differently when laid flat. So I measure those, and I even keep a note on my phone with all my garment measurements: baggy jeans, tight jeans, dresses, tops. That’s my holy grail for shopping.
Maureen: Yeah, that’s brilliant. And also, it’s about making it about the clothes — not your body. When I’ve focused on measuring my body, I’ve thought, oh, this should fit, but then it doesn’t, because it’s not about the size of my body — it’s about my preference for fit. Measuring clothes that already fit the way you want makes so much more sense.
Cara: Exactly. And especially secondhand, people don’t always care for clothes properly. A sweater might have been washed in hot water when it shouldn’t have, and now the fit is totally different. Just because it says XL or 2XL doesn’t mean it’ll fit like that.
That’s why I say don’t measure your body — your body has nothing to do with it. It’s about the clothes and how they were made, or how they were cared for. I swear by this trick. That little measuring tape is a lifesaver.
Maureen: I love that. I have one too, and I need to start bringing it with me. I feel very inspired.
So, what other advice would you give to someone looking to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Cara: My first piece of advice is to find your key comfort items — the pieces you love and wear often. A lot of times, they’re not “sexy” pieces, but basics: the tried-and-true jeans, the skirt that fits perfectly, the white button-up that doesn’t gap. Find those first. Love them. Take care of them — even take them to the dry cleaner if needed.
Second, when you shop, pick things you love, but also ask yourself: Can I see myself wearing this multiple ways? Can this t-shirt go under a dress, with jeans, or with a skirt for a night out? Money is precious, even if it’s $3 at the thrift store. Think intentionally about how often you’ll actually wear it.
And last but not least — accessories. They make or break an outfit. Invest in a good purse, or thrift one. Play around with scarves, hats, socks, jewelry. Experiment with color, pattern, fit. Eventually you’ll find what you’re comfortable in and what makes you feel cool.
Because that’s what it’s about — not what anyone else thinks, but how you feel in your clothes.
Maureen: That’s so inspiring. For me, I’m coming out of an era where I had to rebuy my whole wardrobe because of fit changes. And in that process, I stopped being expressive. I felt like I couldn’t buy the “fun” stuff because I had to prioritize leggings or basics.
But finding your content has reminded me I can play and explore again. I don’t have to be in survival mode. I can try different things and see how I feel on my today body. Your enthusiasm makes dressing feel achievable, fun, and worth the effort. So thank you for that.
Cara: Thank you — that’s so sweet. Honestly, all the love I’ve received — like being asked to be on this podcast — it’s the cherry on top. I’ve done a lot of work to feel good about myself, and to have others notice and use words like “contagious” is really special.
I’ll never take that for granted. I just feel lucky to have this outlet to connect with people who feel the same way. That’s what it’s all about.
Maureen: Well, thank you. Where can people find you? Where are you most active?
Cara: I’m on Instagram — my handle is just my name: Cara_Wengen_Co. And my TikTok is the same without the underscores. The content on both platforms is pretty similar, and that’s the best way to connect with me. I hope people do!
If you listen to this and then follow me, or already follow me and are listening, DM me. I try to check my hidden requests more than people would think because it’s like the land of lost messages — those deserve love too.
Maureen: Well, thank you for doing that, because that’s how you saw my message.
Cara: I’m so happy to be here. So happy I did.
Maureen: Oh, and if someone wanted to do a style bundle, are you actively taking requests?
Cara: Yeah, I just shipped out ten this past weekend, which was very crazy. I am taking requests, but I only take on about five at a time. I’m working on three right now, so I have two spots left.
And if you reach out when I’m not taking people, don’t worry — I have a little waiting list document. Once a bundle ships out, I’ll reach out to the next person.
Maureen: Awesome. Well, I’ll make sure all of that is linked in the show notes. Thank you so much — this was a delight.
Cara:Thank you!
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and searchIntuitive Styleto read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.
Harriet: It really was like the most fun thing. And I think sometimes to me, my writing, there are some things that I just know I wanna write. And then generally this situation, I’d gone to a coffee shop with my laptop and I got there, my laptop was dead. And I was like, man, there’s no chargers around. And I always carry a notebook with me, as you know, I love my journals. So I was like, okay, I’m just gonna people watch, which is another hobby of mine. And I just started writing what I was seeing, like socks with shoes, canvas totes. It was almost like a shopping list. I just kind of was documenting what I was seeing. And then I said to my husband, he was at the coffee shop with me, I was like, I’m Harriet the Spy. And then I think that whole thing, was like, this is so fun because like you said, I think my style is a little bit different generally to where I live and I don’t in any way say that to sound like it’s better than. Again, I think this is where style can feel really problematic.
But coming from London, I think my style has always felt a bit dressier. But I love taking inspiration from anywhere and everywhere. So I also think I’m currently on another no-buy. I love being able to think how can I make my existing wardrobe work harder for me? And also like you said, like intuitive style in my opinion is about trying stuff. It’s about experimenting. So I love pushing myself out my comfort zone in the safety of my own home and knowing like, okay, here’s my barometer to decide what feels comfortable to leave the house in. What bits do I keep? What bits do I maybe go, cool, I tried that, it’s not for me. But for me getting dressed is like playing dress up. It always takes me back to being a kid and just wanting to try things.
Maureen: How do you know when it feels right and you’re ready to leave the house in something versus like, I need to tweak this a little bit more or it doesn’t feel right?
Harriet:That’s a really good question and part of me wants to say there’s lots of ways to answer that but I also think intuition and self-trust is something we build. So for me it’s both a physical feeling in my body, it’s kind of like a mental knowing of... I think as well for me it’s like a spectrum of like am I uncomfortable because it feels new or is it uncomfortable because...I just would feel more conscious wearing this than not wearing it. And I think if it’s the former, like, oh, this just feels new, then this is why I like doing, like, play dates in my own wardrobe at home, because it gives me time to get used to seeing myself in a new way. It gives me space and time to be like, ooh, there’s something that keeps making me look in the mirror and go, I’m not mad at it. I don’t hate it. And sometimes I think you have to start there before you can get to a place of, oh my god, this and sometimes the my god I love this does happen very instantaneously but for me I think it’s almost it’s it’s learning to develop patience with when I’m trying something new it isn’t always gonna click straight away and there will be some things where try as I might I’m like looks great on everyone else but it’s a no for me like I think it’s that it’s it’s building that self-trust which I would love to say I could tell you exactly how you do that.
But I think it’s, I think to start with, it’s maybe wanting to build the self-trust. I think that’s a good place to be. Like, I think I’ve outsourced my tastes when I was younger so much. I look for someone to tell me what style is, what would be right. Again, you know, coming of like the noughties and the, you know, 90s teenager, like I grew up with, everything should be flattering, everything should be done, you know, avoid horizontal stripes.
So I’ve had to unlearn a lot as well, but I think that started with wanting to unlearn it. Like there came a point where I was like, I would like to make decisions that feel good for me, even if other people don’t get it. And I think that’s a good place to start is just wanting to kind of like build that trust.
Maureen: Can you be my co-host on this podcast because...
Harriet: You Anytime.
Maureen: I mean, everything you said…there’s no bows that we can tie. There’s a reason that this is an 18 plus episode and growing podcast because I don’t think that there’s a one answer on how to build this self trust, but it’s like you said, it’s a choice that we’re making and, something that we have to put time and attention into doing. yeah.
Harriet: Yeah. No. And I think make it fun, whatever fun looks like for you. Like for me, I’m still a big kid at heart. Like I wanna put 90s boy band music on while I have a wardrobe play date and you know, have a sing and a dance in my closet. And I’m always like, how can I make this feel like play versus something I have to get right?
Maureen: Are there any outfits that you tried recently or as a result of that post that, was there like anything that stands out that you’re like, I did this new thing and it felt really good. What was that like?
Harriet: I think the socks and shoes I see come round again and again. I think it’s one of those things that in fashion, it’s been used in so many different decades. I see people, like I I live on the East side in LA. I see it a lot on the East side and I always appreciate it on other people. I’ve just always been like, especially trainers and socks, loafers and socks. And I remember realizing at one point, I don’t actually own a pair of white socks. I only own black socks for the winter with my boots. And I remember wearing a pair of black socks over leggings with like a really oversized blazer and then like a white strappy sandal and I loved the contrast of that. I remember thinking like, oh this feels like me. Again, that spectrum I talked about, it was a very instantaneous yes. And so because of that, I was like, okay, well what if it’s not a loafer in a sock for me? What if it’s just a different shoe in a sock?
So again, I kind of like the same Harriet the Spy thing. I’m very investigative. Like, I don’t even think that’s a word. But like, I’m always trying to be like, what is the bit I do like? Like, warmer, warmer. And I remember I had this pair of shoes that were actually from the Alison Bornstein, Jack Irwin collection when she did that launch. And I’ve got to be honest, I don’t always wear them. And they’re suede and I live in LA, so I have no excuse. But I was just like, I need to wear these more. Again, there’s things in my wardrobe where I’m like, I love this item. If I’m not wearing it, is it because I need to find new ways to wear it that excite me? Is it just that I haven’t put it enough into heavy rotation? And like I said, I didn’t have any white socks, but Dave had some sports socks with like a pink and a brown rim around the top. And I was like, well, if I fold them and scrunch them, I can kind of make it look like a white sock. And it was like a thick sports socks. I was like, okay, this is really not comfortable, but it’s kind like I have this concept called like the bridge philosophy where it’s like where can you try something that is like point A of the spectrum of starring stuff and being like, okay, that’s my beginning point. And from doing that, although it was like uncomfy because the socks were too thick, I was like, I kind of like this. And again, for me, I have to always add something dressy into the mix. I feel like when there’s like a more formal looking bag or something that feels quite, I’m trying to what the word is. Like for me, I love grandma and granddad. That’s always like, feel like when people say like, what’s your style? I’m like, I don’t really have words, but I’m like, what a granddad would wear, a grandma would wear, or a librarian, or a geography teacher, like any of those probably would like cross my path some way. Again, yeah, and I just think like trying on those shoes with the socks, I was like, maybe I might get round to buying socks.
So I think it’s, whether it’s going to be something that becomes fully into part of my everyday dress, who knows? But again, I like that experimenting, I like the play of like, there’s something in this that I’m like, ⁓ that’s cute, I like that. Like it brought me joy seeing that outfit come together and being like, I know what it is within the outfit that makes it feel like me.
Maureen: One of the questions that I am always like, what’s the word, struggling with, and it sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on this is like balancing staying open to trying new things and changing your mind while also respecting the preferences that you’ve observed over time. Can you think of any ways to explain the right balance between those two? Like, is it just? That’s self-trust or is there more to it?
Harriet: I mean, the thing that’s given me the most freedom, I think, not just in my wardrobe, but in life in general, is I’m allowed to change my mind. And I’m actually writing a piece about this at the minute for Substack because I think so many people can relate to that feeling of once I quote unquote commit to this is my style, this is an objective I’m gonna use to describe it, this is how I understand it now, I just think we’re always evolving and I think there’s things that ground us.
But I think letting go of the fear of like, well now I’ve decided I know my personal style, therefore I must stay here. I think there’s a fluidity that’s needed for it to stay fun and for it to not get into the territory of like, good, bad, right, wrong. That’s kind of like, for me personally, whenever I’m like, yeah, you’re allowed to change your mind, I’m like, that’s so freeing. Like there’s so much relief in that. So I don’t know if I’ve answered the question, but I think that’s kind of like how I approach that nuance.
Maureen: I think you answered the question perfectly. It’s like, our preferences can mean whatever they want to mean. our preferences can be valid in a moment in time and then our preferences can change and also be valid in a different moment in time. And I think it’s just being okay with that.
Harriet: I think with this online world we’re all in now, I think it’s that fear of things getting used against us. I know as a writer, like, you know whatever you write, it’s in print. Like, it’s in the world. The internet makes it exist and people love to go back to something that was said and kind of pull it up. you know, I’ve been within to some extent the content creation world for the past, like, 12 years.
Of course I see things that I wrote or I’ve said like from 10 years ago and I’m like, I don’t believe that anymore. But I’m like, yeah, cause I’m growing. I, and yes, growing, you know, from an emotional lens, but also literally my experience on this earth is now longer. I’ve had more points of view to see. And I think sometimes this is expectation when you let yourself be online of like, I have to have every single nuance covered. I have to have every single point of view.
And sometimes I think the asterisks can get a little bit, I think it was, you know, I was chatting about this with a writer from recently and I was like, I think the audience just want to feel something. I think they just want to connect and I’m not for everybody. Like I think I’ve, for the most part, day to day, I feel more peace than ever that I’m really not for everyone. But that’s how it stays fun for me. You know, rather than trying to be like, and you don’t have to dress up and it’s okay if you want to dress up. Like sometimes you, there’s that kind of push and pull, but style is personal. Like it can’t not be personal if you’re approaching it from a lens of experimentation play. And I think letting go of the idea that we arrive, do you know what I mean? Like letting go of this idea of like, and now my style is complete and it will never, it’s never going to change again.
Maureen: You know, it’s so crazy because there’s so many things that I like know in my brain, but then like when it’s like me, it’s not like it doesn’t feel true. Like I have this idea in my head, like I’m in the midst of a style transition right now where I’m like, Ooh, I feel like there will be another side of this and I I’m not there yet. And I’m trying to remind myself like maybe there isn’t another side. Like maybe, maybe I’m not like on a bridge crossing a river. Maybe I’m just like on a meandering path.
Harriet: Yeah, no, I mean, even recently, like, I, again, another place I’m writing about, like, the joy of patina, like, I think I’ve noticed myself being, I’ve always loved secondhand, it’s kind of what I grew up with, but also now it’s kind of coming full circle where I’m like, I’ve done the babying items I’ve spent a lot of money on, a lot of which I’ve sold, and recently I started just wildly pinning Victorian writing desks. It, like, was one of these things where I was just like, I don’t know why, but I’m obsessed with the thought of having a place to do my journals where there’s no computer, where there’s nothing digital, where I can wear my nightgowns and pretend I’m Emily Bronte. I was like, no, it’s a whole vibe. But from the place, it’s fun. Like I know lace is trending right now. And again, for me, it all comes around full circle all the time.
But I found this amazing little table in a thrift store for like, I think it ended up being like 40 bucks. And then the next day, found a chair that matches it in like a junkyard for like 20 bucks and I was just like did I manifest this? Is this part of my style evolving? And I think for me again it’s letting go of it needing to make sense because I think that thing of like the consistency that people are craving and I get it I get we want to feel like we can wear our clothes we can use them we want to avoid feeling discombobulated on like a personal level but I think there is space for that nuance and there is space for that, don’t know why I like it, but I do. And okay, I’m not gonna dress head to toe like I’m in a Victorian novel every single day, but there are things, it’s like that cherry picking, there’s things where I’m like, I like that. And it probably doesn’t make sense, but it makes sense to me. again, it just, whether you wanna say it sparks joy, whether you wanna say it’s, know, even like when I look at...
I mentioned the Victorian table from the lens of I live in LA, everything here is very mid-century modern, the house we live in, there’s a lot of things that quote unquote wouldn’t suit the house we live in. But when I saw this Victorian desk, I’m like, I don’t care, I just need to own it, like I love it. And it’s just, I think leaning into where I’m at in my, whether you’d say style and period, like all the things that I use to explore creativity and express myself.
I’m coming back to this place of like, I remember my mum having one like that when we were kids. Or there’s kind of like that pull to memory, there’s a pull to I’ve moved away from so many things I grew up with. And now I’m like, I can like really appreciate the beauty from a new lens and that wanting to be around certain things. Because I think with clothing as well, kind of like to come back to the East Side pose she was saying about, I just enjoy seeing people like, be in clothes. I think there’s something so fascinating about the way clothing makes people change how they walk, it changes you know the confidence they might have when they enter a room. I think it’s so psychological and I find that part of clothing fascinating like deep like when someone says like I can’t wear this is it’s too much I’m like Tell me more. Like, I’m just like, wanna, I wanna know all about like, where did that come from? Like, I, I, you know, when someone’s like, okay, I’ve changed now, I feel better. Like, I’m like, cool, what make, like, I’m so fascinated. Like, what makes us feel better? Yeah.
Maureen: You and me both, Harry. This is why I sit here with these headphones on, talking to people every week. I’m like, what are you wearing and why? I just wanna know. It’s so true. It’s just the most beautiful way of communicating and understanding from other people who you are and why, or how do you view yourself? What do you feel about yourself? Not that it means, like, not that there’s like, oh, if you dress like this, it means this thing, but it allows you to have a conversation or, you whatever. It’s about presentation, like, who we are inside on the outside. I mean, it’s the best.
Harriet: Yeah, and it’s this fun thing you get to play with. I always think we can learn so much from kids when I’m watching my nieces get dressed with a frozen dress mixed with cowboy boots. My sister was like, no, I literally can’t buy clothes for them anymore. And she’s five. My sister’s like, no, she has an opinion. And I kind of watch her get dressed and I’m like, she’s just having so much fun. There’s no right or wrong. And again, I’ll, you know, going to see her grandma, she’s like, I’m put my frozen boots on. She’s already figured out like, I’m going somewhere. This is like a place to share what I enjoy wearing with other people. And I just think it blows my mind how like, you know, it’s maybe so much younger than we think that we have this awareness of like how we present ourselves. And that exploring, I guess, creativity, you know, and self-expression through what we were.
Maureen: Do you remember what you wore as little kid?
Harriet: I do because I feel like as a kid I was very very sporty so I was obsessed with sport as a kid. I played a lot of tennis, so as a really small girl my mum did do the kind of like matching clothes with me and my sister, which I look back and I’m like that’s kind of cute now. But I remember hating as a kid—everything was color coordinated. It was like if she had a Mickey Mouse t-shirt, I had Minnie Mouse. Her sleeves were one color, my sleeves were another, and it was like matching sets, but our own colors. And I remember a lot of that, which makes sense, because it’s probably just easier for my mom to be like, cool, get two of those. Like, you know, again, it’s not that deep. Sometimes it is just not. And whenever I was in skirts or dresses, I was like, I can’t do cartwheels or the boys seeing my knickers. Like, at that point clothes were an obstacle. If I wasn’t wearing things that I felt comfortable in...and then as I became more sporty as I got older, I think I spent a lot of time with boys and girls, but with boys as well. And it was like, right, I need leggings, I need trainers so I can run. My clothes started to take on this need to keep up. And obviously, like I said, doing sports a lot, I found myself always in sports clothes, which A, was super comfortable, but it was also practical. There was that sense of like, I’m running a lot and playing a lot of sport.
And then I think around age 11, it was like I went totally the other way. My brain was just like, wait, wait, hang on. You know, Topshop was the coolest place in the world at this point. And I just remember, again, I was playing a lot of sport, and I don’t know if any other kids can relate to this, but there was a point where my mum was like—do you wanna go to sleepovers? She was a bit like, you love sport, but do you want this too? There was no like, I’m gonna go to Wimbledon, I’m gonna do this. But a lot of the people I was with had that mindset. Their parents were making the kids play tennis before school, and I used to play with the county. So it was one of those things where I could have started taking it seriously. But I think as is the way with me, I was like, this is just really fun. So I liked just doing it from that place.
And I think my mum realised quite early on—every time someone invited me to a sleepover, I had tennis camp or whatever. And she said, you can do that, we’ll support you if you wanna do it, but we just wanna check—do you wanna be a kid? Again, I was in lots of highly competitive scenarios. And I’m really grateful my mum did that because, for one, that’s where I realised I love makeup.
I remember the first time I went to a sleepover, and we all opened makeup bags and were swapping the free blusher we got with the magazines. Again, it just opened this world that I’d never—I’m the oldest, so I have a younger sister and a younger brother, but I’d never been around girls kind of going through puberty. That was my first foray into like, there’s this other world, and it involves glitter.
So I then went very hard the other way and was like, okay, yes, I want to go to sleepovers all the time, talk about clothes, and play with makeup, because this is also really fun.
Maureen: This whole line of conversation is perfectly segueing into my next question, which is—your expertise is super wide-ranging, as I said in the intro, but you refuse to be limited by labels. You wrote, I’ve worked hard to undo the belief that my identity comes from any one thing. I am a writer and I’m a content creator. I’m a writer and I talk about style. I’m a writer and I’m a daughter. I’m a writer and I’m a wife, I’m a writer and I’m a friend. There is not one thing I am or am not. I am so much more than what I do. How does this way of viewing yourself as so many different things all at once impact the decisions and choices that you make? How does this compare to earlier versions of yourself?
Harriet: I think—I mean, I want to be very honest. That piece of writing especially reflects where I’m at now and where I’ve been the past year. It hasn’t always felt that way. As much as I’ve always been the person that’s had lots of interests, I think in the past I have been like, okay, I need to be the best at something, I need to be really good at it. I’ve been very hard on myself—that has existed. And for various reasons, moving away from that has given me the flexibility to be like, you know what, we’re here for a good time, not a long time. So what is the point, and where has chasing joy been the majority of my decision-making? That might sound really immature to some people. I think past me would have thought, oh, that’s very unrealistic of you to think that way. But because I’ve been in highly competitive situations in the worlds that I’ve been in within my work, coming out of it has been like taking a step back and just saying—kind of like what we were saying about style evolving—your likes, your dislikes, the seasons you have in your life, really making space for the one you’re in right now.
And I think it’s that thing where I’m in a place personally where there are many days when I’m like, I have no idea what I’m doing. And there was a time when that terrified me. And I won’t lie, there are times when it still does. But more often than not, I’m like—how fascinating that we’re here. Because there was a part of me that would never have let myself be in this place before.
Especially when it comes to slowing down, especially when it comes to doing less and making space to be multiple things at once. To be in a season where maybe one thing is a priority for a while, and a different thing is a priority next month. I’m in a season of permission for myself to be whatever I need to be, and I’ve needed it so badly. That’s what I always come back to when my brain says—you’re not doing enough, you need to figure this out right now. I just come back to—you’re exactly where you’re meant to be. And there’s a lot of discomfort in that sometimes, because I think we’re taught—and it comes back to the style thing—we’re taught you should know it, you should figure it out, there’s an end goal, there’s a finish line. And the older I get—the more I’m about to turn 40—the more I understand this is just gonna keep evolving. There are going to be so many different seasons.
For me, I think I’m really trying to redefine my relationship with ambition to a place where it’s more fun and playful. When I first started writing, it was like—okay, I’m a writer, what’s the end goal? And I think now I’m like—well, I don’t really have an interest in trying to be a New York Times bestseller. If it happened, cool, that would be great. But it’s not an end goal. Writing actually makes me very present, because it’s just one post at a time. Whereas with Instagram, which I don’t really do anymore, it was very optimization-heavy and about getting as much done as possible in a short amount of time.
Whereas for me, writing—the fact I can even spend a week writing the same piece, which again, I know sounds very luxurious, but I want to, I’m taking that long because A, I can, and B, I want to. And I think noticing how much I’ve come back to long-form content, you know, I still do YouTube. But I’ve also come back to that I’m allowed to change my mind. I might want to go back to doing short-form content at some point. But right now, the season I’m in is about doing less and not having to do this to become X, Y, Z, or to have someone validate that I did good enough. It’s hard to unlearn. I’m going to be really honest. But I keep coming back to it. I just keep writing Substacks; I don’t have a content planner. I just keep writing because, for now, it gives me a lot. Like it really does give me a lot, and I love the people I’ve met through it—the fact I got to meet you. There are so many things that come out of just going after something because it feels right. That intuition, building trust with yourself—it all comes back to that.
Maureen: How do you feel after you’ve decided to hit publish on a post? What does that feel like?
Harriet: For the most part, really excited. I think that’s what’s different. There’s something about putting something out there where I’m like, that’s my point of view for today. It could be different in a week, but there’s something about it. Substack is like a body of work, and I treat it like work in a way that I’m committed to, but I’m still doing it because...You know, I’m in this season of trying lots of different things to see if maybe I’m meant to do a bit of this, a bit of that. And writing is the thing I keep coming back to for now. It feels like my—maybe not a security blanket—but it feels fun. And I love that after doing a lot of free content for many years, there’s something empowering about it.
I’ve done sponsorships, I have affiliate links, but it was never how I fully earned my living. That’s not to say there’s anything wrong with doing that—I’m in awe of content creators who do it full time. But for me, I’ve always identified as a creative. A lot of my jobs have been creative, freelance, self-employed. There’s something refreshing about people paying for my work. Especially with Instagram or YouTube, the longer you do it, the more negative comments you get alongside the lovely ones. I often joke, if someone wants to talk s**t about me, they have to pay me first.
And there’s something really safe about that. I like that you don’t have to be here, but you’re welcome to join. Prioritizing my sanity and capacity is also important. Burnout is real, and I’ve suffered from it. I see other people either in burnout, going through it, or on the other side of it. So much of it is that we’re all trying to do everything and be everything. Even when I stepped back from Instagram, there was almost this pressure like, no, you should do it. But I was like, just because I should, who says?
Being a creative feels empowering when you can say, no, I’m just gonna spend more time here right now, even if it doesn’t make sense, even if there are “missed opportunities.” That’s how my brain sometimes sees it. Versus, no, this is just what feels good right now.
Maureen: I feel like you’re healing me, which is not your responsibility by any means, but I’m kind of speechless. I hope that’s okay. No, that was beautiful. There’s so much we’re unlearning around what it means to show up as ourselves, to make a living, be a good friend, a good writer, a good creative.
I just think what you’re saying now, and your whole newsletter, is a beautiful love letter to figuring it out—the meandering path rather than walking over a bridge.
Just anyone that hasn’t read your newsletter—can you stop watching this podcast, go look her up, and then come back? Seems highly unlikely, but just saying. I did want to talk about some of the things you’re kind of dabbling in or exploring.
Harriet: Thank you, Maureen.
Maureen: One of the questions I typically ask our guests is how they decide what to buy and where, but since you’re currently on a no-buy, I thought it would be more fun to talk about how you are deciding what to buy for your new bag and accessories resale endeavor. How do you know when there’s a piece you want to resell to your subscribers?
Harriet: This is a really fun question because it’s very easy to answer—I just feel like it’s something I would want. I found myself being like, you know, I’m at a really good point in my wardrobe for now. There’s not much room left at the end, and it’s starting to feel overwhelming again. I was like, I think I’m ready for another no-buy; I’m doing this one for six months, but I think it will… I’m almost more fascinated to see what it feels like doing it a second time after doing it for a year. But yeah, it comes down to things I would want to own. Obviously, in all honesty, if they don’t sell, I think, oh, well, I have to use these lovely handbags. But with secondhand especially, I want to de-stigmatize it. Can we just call it secondhand? I remember saying “pre-loved” in front of my husband once, and he was like, what? Pre-loved? He was like, am I allowed to swear? I said, do you want me not to? He said, that’s the most wanky thing I’ve ever heard. He’s British too, by the way. And I was like, okay, fair.
Maureen: Tell me you’re British without telling me you’re British.
Harriet: I’ve been a big RealReal shopper; I’ve bought…Very low price pieces, very high-end pieces secondhand. It’s funny about that term—we had to give it a term to justify spending a certain amount. And I think some people prefer saying “pre-loved” versus “secondhand” as if secondhand is less prestigious. For me, this handbag endeavor excites me because some pieces will be lower-end, others several hundreds. One person’s “a lot” is another person’s “not much.” But no matter your budget, secondhand gives the most bang for your buck and the best chance of high-quality pieces. You just have to know what to look for. I grew up doing this. My mum, before thrifting was cool in England—we called them charity shops—taught me and my sister how to find leather, how to check labels, which brands to look for. I grew up very clued up on that, and I’m grateful.
When I first moved to London as a “starving artist,” living in a tiny room I couldn’t stand up in, I used to buy things and sell them on eBay. I’d go into thrift stores, see, like, a pair of Chanel shoes for 30 pounds, and think, okay, that’s at least 200 whatever back then. I got very good at knowing how to find things.
I’ve fallen back in love with secondhand, not just one price point or brand. It’s about things being lived-in and used. In the past, I would baby new expensive things. I’d panic if a bag got a scratch. I couldn’t be present—I’d worry about my bag at lunch with someone. Coming back to secondhand has been freeing. I still treasure my pieces and take care of them, but without the anxiety that pulls me away from the person I’m with or the place I’m in. They’re just wonderful things that add character to my outfit. And you can find something great if you know where to look, regardless of your budget.
Maureen: Are you taking requests?
Harriet: Well, this is the funny thing. When the handbag drop launches, it’s just going to be— I think it’s going to be 10 pieces. I think I’m finished; we’ve started shooting all the pieces. I’m also going to be offering a secondhand sourcing service. So I’m actually going to be offering a service where you can request items. I’m very excited about that.
Maureen: Ooh. Well, I’ve seen some of your selects, and I was like, gosh, I don’t think I need bags… but do I need bags?
Harriet: You’ve had a sneak peek. It’s funny because I was doing a PC the other day about how big my wardrobe really is. Bags have always… I think some people are “shoe people,” where they can’t walk past a shoe shop without looking. I’m realizing this more as I get older—I love shoes, I love every category, but blazers and bags… I can literally feel like I’m walking around in a dustbin bag, and if I have a good bag, I feel like I’m wearing head-to-toe Schiaparelli and diamonds.
Maureen: What is it about— I mean, I have thoughts on bags as well. They’re amazing. But what is it about a bag that’s so… special?
Harriet: I was trying to think this the other day. Clothes sit on your body, whereas a bag you kind of pick up and put down. And again, the psychology in me is like, I can see a lot of cultural influences we’ve grown up with… But a big part of it for me is that I love craftsmanship. I love leather, I love stitching. There’s something… this is embarrassing, but I’ll buy a bag and put it somewhere I can see it, just stare at it, and say, “You’re so pretty.” People do this with shoes too, but sometimes with my bags I just admire them. And there’s something about construction. I’ve honestly had the conversation with myself: do I want to learn how to be a cobbler? Do I want to go to leather school? Do I want to learn how to handcraft bags? I don’t have answers right now, but it makes sense why I’m starting with bags as this secondhand drop—just to see. I’ve picked pieces similar to ones I already own, so I’m excited to show that people can now get these.
The craftsmanship is so tactile. Leather is like skin—it ages. There’s something metaphorical in that too. My first designer bag was a Mulberry Bayswater. I wanted it because of all the images I’d seen of battered, patina’d leather. No two bags age the same, which gives each its own fingerprint. Bags age with stories; every mark is a memory—from mundane moments to magic ones. They can even be handed down. Some clothing may not last generations, but I can imagine my niece wearing my bags. That’s so cool.
Maureen: Yeah. You’re reminding me I should raid my mom’s purse closet. That’s beautiful. I love bags. And like you said, they’re tactile. You’re literally holding them in your hands. That’s satisfying. We can wear a shirt or jacket, but a bag…
Harriet: Yeah, there’s a feel to it.
Maureen: This is weird too, but I’ve started to try eating with my hands a little more. I feel like something about letting myself—or even cooking with my hands rather than using tongs—feels really good. I wonder if that ties into the bag thing too.
Harriet: That makes a lot of sense. I recently had back surgery, which healed really well, but obviously I couldn’t wear a bra for two weeks. Similar to what you were saying, when one sense is limited… for me it was like, I can’t wear certain things right now. I found myself exploring senses differently. I got really into fragrance—I like fragrance. I was like, oh my god, this is now the best part of my day—choosing a perfume—because I’m pretty much wearing the same two dresses every day. That’s fine, but I became genuinely obsessed with fragrance in a way I don’t think I could have anticipated. I’ve always worn perfume, but now it’s like, I want to layer, I want to experiment. It’s like shopping with what I already own in a really fun way. Because I’d taken away one sense, it emphasized another.
Maureen: One thing I’m hearing through everything you’re saying is that you choose to stay open, present, and attuned to your situation, and that provides so much value. In Western culture, when we’re in pain, anger, or sadness, there’s not much support for paying attention to that. Instead, we’re taught to numb or run away. But you illustrate that maybe that’s not the best approach. Being present can open us up to opportunities we didn’t even know existed. Do you feel that’s your experience? How did you get to this point of openness?
Harriet: I don’t think there’s an easy answer. I’ve been closed off in certain ways for many years. The best way I can describe it is that I was always “operating.” I’m a very good doer—give me a task, I’ll do it—but sometimes you need a pause to ask, “Where am I? What am I doing? Is this the direction I want to go in?” Breaking life down into seasons has helped me a lot.
Sometimes life feels overwhelming. As someone who’s struggled with depression, the concept of life itself can feel huge. I have to remind myself it’s made up of lots of seasons. Life will throw different things at me, many of which I won’t predict. And I’m grateful for the life I have. Sometimes we feel pressure to make the most of every single moment.
I’ve learned a lot from others. I’ve become obsessed with Italy, reading Elena Ferrante books. Seeing other ways of living is so good—it reminds us that no place is perfect, but there are other ways to exist. My uncle and aunt live in Bulgaria, off the land, in a tiny mountain cabin. They love building, making things with their hands. They’re some of the happiest people I’ve met. I feel like a sponge these days—I want to experience as much as I can. Experiencing life fully feels like waking up again. Sometimes depression feels like going to sleep for a long time. And when I’m in these periods of “oh no, I’m awake,” I’m like, oh my gosh, I can see the colors, I can smell the perfume. It feels overwhelming sometimes, but in a good way. There’s all this magic. I always come back to doing things with my hands—I think that’s the born creative in me. We’re all born creatives, to be very clear.
Recently, I’ve been making leather journals, making candles. The hardest thing to override was the voice saying, “Now I should sell these,” that millennial urge to monetize every hobby. I am that millennial. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I’ve been reminding myself it’s okay to just let myself create.
I spend time making something, and it doesn’t have to be quantified—how much money it made, how much time it took. I’m really jealous of anyone who’s always had this mindset. But I’m good at relearning lessons over and over again.
That tactile need—to make something with my hands—I lean into a lot now. Sometimes it’s a Substack post, sometimes it’s writing, sometimes a candle. I’m going to see my sister in September, and I’m so excited to craft with my nieces. They’re at an age where we can do it together.
We’ll probably do loom band jewelry—that’s their favorite. We’ll also bake, color, make journals, because I’ve journaled my whole life. My mom kept most of them, and they’re hilarious. Reading something you wrote at seven years old—there’s nothing better. Like, “Highlight of today: I ate spaghetti.”
It doesn’t get much deeper than that, but I always come back to things with my hands.
Maureen: Your childlike wonder is magical. It’s contagious. We’re coming up on time, so I have one last question.
Harriet: Aww, thank you. That’s nice.
Maureen: What advice would you give someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic?
Harriet: Observe, experiment, there’s no rush. Curiosity and creativity are the two words I love most in my wardrobe. Creativity doesn’t mean trying to look like Iris Apfel every day. It exists in jeans and a t-shirt too. If you’ve never worn jeans and a t-shirt, give yourself space to try it. See what you like or don’t.
Experimentation is key. I believe in wardrobe playdates—literally trying combinations you’ve never thought of. Swap one item for another. Feel fabrics on your skin. Consider practicality: your lifestyle may affect what works. Explore ideas, like a smaller heel if big heels don’t suit your day-to-day. Pick the bits that speak to you and play.
Maureen: Yeah. Can’t agree more. Just play. It doesn’t have to be so serious.
Where can people find you?
Harriet: Definitely Substack—Harry Styles By Harriet Hadfield. I also have a YouTube channel, Harry Makes It Up, where I experiment creatively. Substack is where I hang out most.
Maureen: And for anyone who wants to get in on your bag resale?
Harriet: Subscribers get first dibs. Once it’s live, it’ll be available at harryhadfield.com.
Maureen: Fabulous. I’ll link to everything in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining me—it’s been a delight. Part two is definitely needed.
Harriet: Thank you! I could talk with you for hours.
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and searchIntuitive Styleto read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.
Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.
Today's guest is Aastha, the author behind the fabulous Substack Fit Happens—which is of course a fabulous name. Aastha loves wearing the brand Tibi, styling clothes in different ways, sharing about color mixing and silhouette, and chatting about weird shoes. Aastha, welcome to the show.
Aastha: Thank you, thank you, and thank you for the introduction.
Maureen: I feel that your newsletter, Fit Happens, is a good foil for mine in the way that you seem to have really honed the skill of dressing intuitively and do it with relative ease. Can you share a little bit about what dressing intuitively means to you and how you foster that sensibility?
Aastha: Yes, yes, for sure. But before I jump into the answer, I do want to say just a few words to embarrass you a little bit, Maureen, because I'm just such a big fan of everything that you're doing. And I really appreciate your vulnerability in how you put yourself out there.
I've been a big fan of your podcast too, and I really appreciate how welcoming you make the space for everyone and hold space for everyone. That’s why I was very excited to do this. So I wanted to officially do that after you start the recording—so you cannot take it out. So don’t take this out.
Now, let me answer the question.
So, it’s something that… just the idea of living intuitively has been very important to me for, I don’t know, like 15, 20 years at this point. And I don’t even remember what sparked that. But in terms of what it means to dress, it’s about—there is so much out there that tells you what is right, what is wrong. And there is no objective truth about how you dress, but also about how you live. Like, the kind of decisions you make. For example, I am here in Los Angeles and my family is in India, which means I’m probably not going to see my parents that many times in my lifetime. But who’s to say whether that’s right or wrong? That’s just a very big example to begin with.
But truly, there are so many decisions you need to make for your own life where there is no objective way to say what is right or what is wrong. And to actually be living a life where you don’t have regrets, it’s so important that you tap into your intuition and what feels right in that moment.
And intuitive style and intuitive dressing to me is just a capsule form of that exact same idea—that you wear what feels right in that moment. And as long as it feels right, you’re going to have a good day and you’re not going to worry too much about, “is this right or is this wrong?”
Even if I look back at my style five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen years ago—I don’t have any regrets, because I know it felt right in that moment. Who cares if it doesn’t feel right now? If I had fun in that moment, that’s enough.
It’s kind of like: if you have fun in the present, the past and the future take care of themselves.
Maureen: I was going to ask about the regret of it all—you already answered. So what I heard from that is basically the only way to prevent future regret, which is this scary intangible thing we can’t predict, is by trusting that we’re making the best choices in the moment. And if we change our minds later, that doesn’t mean anything about what we did in the past.
Aastha: No, no, it doesn’t. And also, I think when you live long enough, you realize you will change your mind. That is normal, right? So if that’s going to happen anyway, why worry too much about it? When people ask me for career advice, I usually say, just do what feels good to you in the moment. Because if you have fun every day, you will also be having fun every day in the future, right? So the future takes care of itself if you just focus on the present, basically.
Maureen: I did a meditation before this, so it's really ringing true for me. No, I love this—such a good way to explain dressing intuitively. I know we'll talk about it more throughout the call.
Switching gears slightly, I love to talk about the Tibi of it all. I know that Tibi, the brand—you’re not affiliated with them, you don’t use affiliate links—but you mostly or very often wear their clothing. And I just think it's so interesting, to me and to other people, to see someone really living authentically with a particular brand. That's also, like, sometimes divisive, as I think you’ve shared on your social media and on Substack.
So I’d just like to hear a little bit more about the origin—how you found Tibi and what it is about that brand that resonates with you so much?
Aastha: Yeah, it's such a great question. It is a big part of my style life for sure, and my closet, right? To the point where, because I'm a big Indyx user too—and you know how you can choose whether you want to see the brand names or the item names—the default is brand name. And I was like, that is useless to me because all I’ll see is Tibi, Tibi, Tibi. That does nothing for me. So I changed it to item name.
But the thing about me is that I really, really dislike searching for things, shopping, and trying on different things—figuring out what's going to work and what's not. I just feel so frustrated when I have to spend time doing that. I think it's such a waste of time and there are so many other things that I’d rather be doing.
In the past, I think pretty early on, I learned about my body type and what works for me. And the thing about most brands—unless they're very expensive brands, like Margiela, Comme des Garçons, that level—is that they’re not very consistent in the lines and the clothing that they make.
So, for example, with Anthropologie or J.Crew, those kinds of brands—they just make anything and everything. When I would wear some of those brands (and I’m a big Anthropologie fan, just as an example), it was like: I’d have to look and not understand exactly what they’re doing this season. It would be all over the place. Some stuff worked, some stuff didn’t. Just very annoying.
I am a fan of Issey Miyake. That said, their lines are consistent, but those lines don’t look great on me. There are very few pieces that actually work for me.
Anyway, long story long—I was in New York, and I wanted to go to the Issey Miyake store because I was willing to spend time finding the one thing that might work for me. But the store was very busy—it’s a small store in Soho—and I didn’t want to deal with that. So I was like, let me just walk around and see what else is out here.
Tibi was right around the corner. I didn’t know anything about the brand because it’s not that well known. I’m also not very engaged in style content on social media—at least before Substack—so I didn’t know anything about them.
I walked in, and there was a stylist there, Grace, who was super nice. She talked about the brand, I was interested in some of the clothes, she helped me try them on—and I instantly fell in love. Literally 90% of the stuff looked good on me and the lines worked well for me. I ended up buying three things, walked out still not knowing about the style classes or anything like that.
Then I did a few email exchanges with Grace afterward to figure out shoe sizing—because their sizing is all over the place. That’s when she told me about the style class, I started watching it, and the rest is history.
But truly, I think what drew me to them is that they are very consistent in the kind of clothes they make. And most of their lines work really well on me. They do make some clothes where the lines don’t work well on me, and I just know that and steer clear of those silhouettes.
Maureen: Yeah. And I know from your writing that you have a specific definition of what “lines” mean and what looks good on you. I just wanted to take an opportunity to clarify—what does looking good mean for you personally?
Aastha: It's such a great question. I think for me, it's a combination of what aesthetically looks good. I think that is important, because sometimes we gaslight ourselves or others into thinking, “Oh, it doesn't matter. You know, it's fine. It's not about flattering.” And it is not about flattering.
Maureen: I agree.
Aastha: So that whole idea of the lines working for me—one is, is it giving me aesthetically what I want? And two, is it expressing what I want to express?
For example, my body type—and this is a caveat because it might come up throughout our chat—I'm very neutral in how I talk about my body. Hopefully this is not triggering for anyone, but my body type is: I have broad shoulders, very narrow hips, my waist-to-hip ratio isn’t much. The way I like to look is basically broad shoulders and then a vertical line from there. So I don't like cinching my waist.
Because of the way my body is, my shoulders are broader than the rest of my body. As long as something has broad shoulders and falls straight down, that column look, I really like. Also, one of my style words is “commanding,” and that look is commanding. So it's a good combination of how I want to look plus the lines that I think look good on me. That’s how I typically think about clothes and whether they give me the lines I want.
Maureen: Let's talk about your style words. I loved your post about that and how you moved from style words that describe clothing to style words that describe how you want to feel in your outfit. I'd love to hear you talk about your style words in more detail and how you got to them.
Aastha: Yeah, I was wondering where this came from. From the very beginning, when I started thinking about style words, for me, it was in the graphic design context. We were taught as an exercise that before you design a poster—you come up with three adjectives. They were not called style words, just three adjectives to describe what you’re going for. Our professor said not to use overly visual words because, he said, that's not exciting. If one of your words is “linear,” I already know your poster is going to have lines. That's a wastage of words.
Even before that, I think this idea of labels is very Western. Minimalist, maximalist, boho, retro—that’s not how we thought about design in India. Growing up, we weren’t boxed into one style; sometimes minimal, sometimes maximal, sometimes inspired by Western dressing, sometimes Indian. So that whole labeling idea didn’t work for me—maybe because I grew up in India.
Combine that with what I learned in grad school, and the idea that style words would be like “70s” didn’t work either. What if I don’t want to feel 70s someday? That’s possible. But I liked the idea of using words to describe what I’m trying to communicate and how I want to feel. Words about me as a person, not just how I want to look, because how I look can change. Anchoring in feelings and personality makes the words more stable—they’ll evolve, but not day by day.
Even today, I’m wearing a navy dress with a black blazer. Yesterday, I was wearing super colorful clothes. If my words were minimal versus maximal, or neutral versus colorful, it wouldn’t work. That’s why I gravitate toward feeling words.
Maureen: Yeah, I mean, for the idea of intuitive style, that post was one I read and thought, “Ooh, I wish I wrote that.” It connected so well with dressing intuitively and paying attention to how we feel in our bodies with what we’re wearing. Choosing style words that communicate feelings is so much more expansive and allows for creativity in what we mean by the words we choose.
I’m probably going to write a post on this, but you and I have been chatting offline about what my style words might be—moving from words like “minimal” or “classic” (how I could describe past clothing) to being in the midst of a style transformation. Sometimes I like to accentuate my waist. My lines will continue to be classic, but I’m moving my words toward “creative,” “free,” and “modern.” What I loved about your post is that it really makes space for evolving and changing our minds.
If I were to rewrite my style words right now based on an aesthetic vision in my head, and I tried those things and they didn’t actually work on my body, it could cause a disconnect between our aesthetic preferences and how we feel in our own bodies. So I feel like by choosing these feeling words, the thing that is the most important is how that actually translates to real life and respecting our aesthetic preferences without making our aesthetic preferences the most or the only important factor in what we choose to wear. What do you think about that?
Aastha: I really like that. I think it's also this approach, and this connects to what you were saying. It's coming from the inside out versus outside in, right? Because one approach could be looking at Pinterest, collecting all these pins, and saying, “Okay, this is a classic look. One of my words is classic because I like this.” Right. There's nothing wrong with looking at Pinterest. I love Pinterest. I'm a very frequent user. But the problem with that is exactly what you said. You might try on those lines and realize, actually, that doesn't work so well on me. So now what do I do? Do I have to start over?
Instead, you just say, “Hey, I am someone who values freedom and I want to feel free.” You might think that translates to clothing like straight lines, no cinching. Or you might say, no, actually for you that just means natural fiber. Or someone else might say that for them it means wearing revealing clothing and being completely free in that because that's how they express it—and all of that is valid. They're still free; how they express it is their choice. No one else needs to look at it and say, “That person is free.”
Maureen: Yeah, I just went down a mental rabbit hole about being online and writing about style online, and how we are—and I say this about myself—right? We're choosing to make public something that is at the same time very private and personal. How do you deal with that cognitive dissonance between, “This is for me” versus choosing to share online and making something public?
Aastha: Yeah. It's a great question. I think first of all, it is when we're able to do that, right? Because you are opening yourself to critique. Now, for the most part, Substack is like a bubble where most everyone is nice, but I also post things on Instagram where that's not the case. I think it comes down to everyone's reason for doing it.
And to me, how it makes sense is—this goes way beyond style—my mom was someone who spent a lot of her life truly enabling other women to feel autonomous and have the agency that she perhaps herself wasn't given. And she actually fought for herself to get that agency. That is how she raised us.
The reason for me and the “why” is because I truly write so that I can share. I just want to give women permission, as much as possible, through living my own life the way I want to. Because the truth is, many of us put too many barriers in our own minds sometimes. Some of these barriers are real, but some are not. It's just that we have grown up with shame, boundaries, rules about what we can or cannot do, what we can or cannot say.
And I think the more we are upfront with each other in sharing how we think about stuff and not being apologetic about how we live our lives, the more permission it gives to the collective. So yes, it is uncomfortable, but that is my “why” that makes it worth it. If someone can look at me and think, “Oh, she can wear shorts to work, I can do the same,” or whatever their version of that might be, it’s worth it if it’s even one person. That’s my hope—that just setting an example for women is something all of us are doing, including yourself.
Maureen: That's really beautiful. And the story about your mom too—it is so important to know our references. It sounds like your mom led by example. When we think about having purpose in our life, I think that's very top of mind for a lot of people. Having a clear passion that you care about and can devote yourself to—what is better than that? I think that's the best thing we can experience on earth.
Aastha: Yeah, I completely agree. I think this is connected to the first thing we were talking about—the first topic of living every day and finding happiness in your every day, whether it's your outfit, how you're living your life, or what job you're doing. Because if it's connected to your purpose, any of this, you'll feel it. If it's not, you'll feel the dissonance too. That's why I try to optimize for how it actually feels to me. That's why I like my job. I like where I live, like all of it. It has to be giving me happiness on a day-to-day basis.
And not just… of course, you'll have crappy days at your job, but we all know the difference between that and just, “This is not for me.”
Maureen: Let's talk about “this is not for me” in clothing. My question that I ask everyone is, I’m getting more interested in the why behind why people decide what to wear rather than what they’re actually wearing. Understanding that you have a go-to roster, particularly Tibi, maybe within a particular collection or based on what you already have—how do you decide what to buy and wear? And how do you decide what not to buy and wear?
Aastha: I have a very good idea of stuff that just won’t work on me. But I still keep trying some of it, knowing it's not going to work on me. But it’s more to verify and train my mental model. Like there’s a dress they did this season—I saw it, and one of my friends who is also into Tibi was like, “This is going to look so bad on me.” She agreed. A day later, I put it in my consignment box to verify. She goes, “Me too.” The minute I put it on, I was like, yes, I was right. But now I know, because I get consignment boxes from Tibi, so I can try it on and send it back. It comes down to some things I just know.
Aastha: I’ll tell you my filter, because some of it applies to Tibi, but some is more global. I’m very particular about colors. I wear any color, all colors, but it has to be a nuanced color. That’s what I really like about it. Tibi is excellent at it. Dries is excellent at it. Rick Owens is another brand I like for their colors. They don’t do simple colors. Even their bright red is a nuanced bright red. Stunning colors.
If I see something and the color is just not there, I won’t even bother.
The second filter is lines. Anything that cinches at the waist, any drop waist, anything where the shoulders feel constricted—doesn’t work for me. Tibi has this top that’s very famous, a lot of people love it. Trini loves it. But it doesn’t work for me because it makes my shoulders feel smaller, and I like the opposite. I like free shoulders—tank tops—or big shoulder pads and things that drape off the shoulder. Lines are important, but that still leaves a lot of Tibi items I could buy. I have to be reasonable in how much I can actually buy.
Right now, my foundational wardrobe is pretty set for any brand. I look more for what adds a spark that might be missing from my closet. For example, I just bought a pair of black tropical wool pants called the Meyer pants—they have a gusset detail on the sides, in the hips. Kind of looks weird, kind of designed. That’s another reason I like Tibi—you get a lot of design for the price. You won’t find other brands in that price range doing pushed design like that.
I added those because I only have one pair of black pants—I don’t need more than that. But these pants are not simple trousers; they add something. That’s typically how I look at stuff now: is it adding that spark? Is it something I might be missing right now?
Maureen: I want to go back in time. One thing I’m struggling with—and I’m sure I’m not the only person—is how do we figure out what we do and don’t like to begin with? Pre-Tibi, for example, what was that process like? I feel like it can be easy to think about what you don't like in the context of what you do like. So I know I like this, and so this thing isn't that, so therefore it doesn't work for me. But let's say you're having a hard time finding the things that you do like to begin with. How do you go about doing that? Is there any workaround other than just trying on like a million things?
Aastha: There are—I'm not saying not, maybe not a million things—but this is why I write about lines, shapes, colors, and all of this. To me, lines are one of the most important things in clothing because it changes how your body looks, and that is a very important part of style. That’s basically the entire foundation of style.
I had an unfair advantage because I knew about lines and shapes from design, so I found it pretty early on. But if people don’t have that, I would say invest first in learning about your body lines, what you like, and being okay with that.
Because again, there’s so much about, “Oh, you don’t need to show your waist.” But sometimes we tell ourselves we are wrong in feeling what we inherently know because it’s cool for someone else to wear oversized clothing. We see Copenhagen Fashion Week, everyone’s in oversized things, and that’s cool. So maybe I should like it.
I am very consistent in my lines because my style is all over the place if you think about the kind of things I wear. But if you look at the lines, completely consistent. It’s very rare for me to have a cinched waist. That’s been the case for a long, long time.
I found pretty early on that I like my shoulders to look broad and my fabric to fall straight. Pretty much everything I wear aligns with that. So I would say invest in finding out what lines you like. There aren’t that many options:
* Shoulders: do you like it to feel narrow or broad? That’s a big one.
* Neckline: do you want it high or low?
* Waist: very important, because a lot of clothing is either cinched or not, slightly cinched, etc. How do you want that to feel?
* Hips: tighter or more space?
And then vertical line. No one likes to feel shorter, but I can think of Ariana Grande—she doesn’t go for long lines. Sabrina Carpenter, she doesn’t go for long lines. They clearly like more petite lines on their body. Do you like that? Do you like one sweeping long line? I feel like as long as people can figure this out, everything else kind of takes care of itself. And then don’t try to trick your mind into, “No, this is fashionable, so I’m going to choose it.” If you don’t like some lines on yourself, you’re just never going to like them. That’s the reality of it.
And then don’t try to trick your mind into, “No, this is fashionable, so I’m going to choose it.” If you don’t like some lines on yourself, you’re just never going to like them. That’s the reality of it.
Maureen: Yeah, I think I’m going back to my question. So this was my theory when I first started writing. I think you’ve said this before, and I think you’re saying it again now: a big part of the idea of dressing intuitively, dressing authentically, is that there’s a general disconnect between the things we feel in our bodies and the preferences we have. And we’ve been made to feel wrong about them in some way due to the culture we grow up in, the specific people we interact with, the social and cultural norms, and where we grew up. So it’s less about making our preferences and more about trying to listen closely to what’s already there. Is that kind of the line of thinking for you?
Aastha: I agree with that. It might feel like you’re coming up with something new, but it’s not. It’s about the unlearning or peeling away layers of what might not actually be your beliefs but you have absorbed.
Like, on the opposite side, maybe someone grew up with their mom always telling them, “Don’t hide your body.” So maybe they’ve been cinching their waist and they don’t because they believe that’s true. In that case, it becomes more about unlearning and going back to what they truly like.
And here's the thing, right? It's hard. On one hand, it's hard to tap into your intuition. On the other hand, it's also one of the easiest things to do. It coexists because we know you can sense it. So really tapping into when you can sense it and you just feel like it doesn't feel good—listening to that.
And you can see it, right? Like I've seen videos of people, TikToks and whatnot. I bet if you look closely, you will see when someone is uncomfortable in what they're wearing. It's a very small energy shift, but it happens.
Maybe sometimes it's even about recording yourself—record yourself trying clothes on, like a video, and you watch it and see, do you look happy? Because energy doesn't lie, and you'll be able to read it. How else does it feel in your body when you feel uncomfortable in something versus when you feel very aligned?
I know you practice somatic therapy, so this will sound familiar to you. But for someone listening, they might be like, what the hell are these California girls talking about?
If you tap into your body, there are actual sensations that you feel, right? Like if it feels uncomfortable, you might not feel it right away, but close your eyes, breathe into it, and see the physical sensation. Try to find that physical sensation: “I feel warmth in my shoulders in a bad way,” or “I feel something stuck in my waist.”
With my shoulder constriction thing, for example, a baby tee—Tibi makes baby tees every season. I’ve tried that so many times. I hate it every single time. The way they move it, the seam is here and then the sleeve is right here. It makes it look like my shoulders are being compressed in. It just feels icky.
The way I describe it to my somatic therapist: it just feels like something icky in your body. Not going too woo-woo, but you can even think about what kind of sound does it make? What does it smell like? Is there a color that comes to mind? None of those things are good in my mind if I think about how that top makes me feel. It feels like a muddy gray and brown, just squeezing my shoulders together, like nothing is able to escape.
So if you're listening and thinking, what the hell is this woman talking about? Maybe this is like advanced somatics, but it can start with just breathing into it: “I don't feel good about it. Can I find any sensation in my body? If I had to describe it with a color, a sound, a feeling?” I bet you'll be able to find at least one thing and then go from there.
Maureen: Yeah, I mean, it's so beautiful to me because I feel that the act of choosing to listen to our bodies is a radical act. And when we choose to do that, we are saying that we care about ourselves, our human existence, our quality of life. We are inhabiting main character energy—not in a way that my experience is superior to someone else's, but that mine is still important.
I know this might sound like a tangent, but choosing to pay attention to our experience and validating it—as you were saying with our preferences, for example, not questioning our preferences once we discover them—is powerful. We don't feel this need to overexert or defend our position against other people. We don't need to make ourselves less than either.
For me, this practice of dressing intuitively and paying attention to how my body feels is about finding a balance between being the most important person in the world or the least important person in the world. Just being like, I am equally as valid and important as every other soul.
I know this is the epitome of woo-woo, but it's a mindset we can bring to every part of our existence. Paying attention to our clothes and how they feel on our body, validating that preference, can have a ripple effect on other decisions we make and how we treat other people. I'm curious—do you feel that it goes beyond clothing? Is it just about the visual aesthetic?
Aastha: It's not. It definitely goes beyond. Clothing is a reflection of how you treat yourself and what you think about yourself. At the same time, it can become a vehicle to change how you think about yourself. It's a symptom of what's happening underneath, but also a lever to change your perspective—about yourself, the world, whatever.
A very small example is, like one thing that I noticed a long time ago… I've been married for like 13 years or something at this point. Many years ago, before I started thinking about this, if my husband had to use the bathroom, he would be like, “I need to use the bathroom,” if we are out and about. That's the first thing he's doing. I would be like, okay, let's do this, and then I can do… How many women don't use the bathroom because there are other important things going on? Like, this is a real thing. We’ll hold our needs because, oh no, I have to do this thing or this person needs me.
That's such a basic bodily need—like not drinking water on time. Food also is another one, but food is more loaded, so I’ll leave that out for now. But we don’t even honor our body’s need to use the bathroom. Even starting there is something.
But that reflects in style, right? So now we approach it from the angle of honoring our own needs. If we feel like, “I like having my waist defined,” I’m going to do it, even if it’s fashionable on TikTok to wear oversized things. You are now teaching yourself to honor what you want. Maybe you are wrong. Maybe five years down the line, you discover that actually, you don’t like a cinched waist. That’s fine. The most important thing is you’re honoring what feels right in the moment. That’s it. Just doing that is very powerful.
Maureen: What’s exciting you in fashion right now?
Aastha: What’s exciting me in fashion? I feel like I’m a horrible person to ask this question because I’m not someone who stays updated on all the trends.
Maureen: What’s exciting you in general? It doesn’t have to be fashion.
Aastha: You know what? As soon as you asked me that, I was like, let me tell you what’s exciting me in fashion, actually. I’m very excited. I’m going to give you a very specific answer. I’m very controversial, but I’m very excited about Demna going to Gucci. I’m excited about what’s going to happen because I love the Gucci era and what they were doing back then. Somehow this whole quiet luxury thing happened, and Gucci tried to do quiet luxury, and it’s just not them—it’s not authentic.
Now I don’t know what’s going to happen with his vision at Gucci, but I have high expectations. I’m expecting weird, kitschy, bold things with colors and metallics. Maybe he does that, maybe he doesn’t—I don’t know—but that is literally exciting me about the future of where some of this fashion can go.
Broader than that, I’m very encouraged by the conversations we have on Substack. It’s a very small community right now. Maybe as it grows, it won’t stay the same—it probably won’t—but still, the fact that we are going deeper into these layers, talking about style and how it impacts our daily and personal lives, I think there is more empowerment happening for women despite what is happening in the world at large. I find hope in that and excitement, that on a personal level, we seem to be empowering each other versus shutting down in our own corners.
Maureen: Yeah, that’s really beautiful. In the grand political scheme, to find those ways to experience joy and connection. We’re coming towards the end of our time. What advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?
Aastha: I think the big one would be: don’t expect it to be one-and-done. It’s not like I’m just going to go through it and be done. It’s an ongoing process. Another is to strip away your learnings that you know are not correct as much as possible. Sit, feel into it, and you will know: these lines are not good for me, I want to wear colors, I want this, I want that. Be okay with that—even if it’s not what your friends are wearing, even if it’s not what’s trendy on Substack. Giving yourself permission to do that is very powerful.
If that sounds scary, start with one day a week where no one will see you. You’re at home, wear whatever you want to wear, see how that feels, and then gradually build up from there. That is truly the most important piece of unlearning things and giving yourself permission to like what you like, irrespective of what you hear around you—including on Substack.
Maureen: Wise words to sign off on.
Aastha: Thank you.
Maureen: Where can listeners find you? Where are you most active?
Aastha: On Substack as Fit Happens, and I’m also on Instagram: Asta Hearts. I’m guessing you’ll leave links so people can find it.
I’ll quickly say, people get confused about my name because I write Aastha/Asta. The longer word is how you spell my name, but Americans typically don’t know how to say [my name] and get confused about the placement of the H. I made it shorter so people know how to say it—it’s like “pasta.” That’s the story behind the dual name.
Maureen: That makes sense. I’m sorry people don’t get your name.
Aastha: It’s one of those things where once you tell them, they have no problem saying it—it’s just not intuitive for Americans.
Oh, this was such a great conversation, Maureen! Seriously, I wasn’t just saying that to make you feel good. You’re doing important work in this space, and I really appreciate it. I am very excited about this episode, and all the other episodes.
Maureen: Yes, thank you! Thank you for always being my style therapist. I always come to you with struggles, and you have great suggestions. This conversation was no different. Thank you for being yourself on the internet, showing self-acceptance and self-love, and neutrality on some days too. Personally, I’ve started to pay attention to what I’m jealous of—people who can accept themselves—and your example is really helpful for me to see that’s possible.
Aastha: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. This was fun. I’ll see you on the internet.
Maureen: Thanks everyone for listening.
Outro
Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.
In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.
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