I'd Rather Be Reading – Details, episodes & analysis

Today on the show we’re talking about a woman you all have long known I admire — Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis. I have read every book I can get my hands on about this former First Lady, American (and, really, global) icon, and one of the most famous women to ever live. We have even had many episodes of the show about her in the past. But today we’re talking about the new book Our Jackie: Public Claims on a Private Life by Dr. Karen M. Dunak, which is out November 12, and instead of just looking at this remarkable woman’s life, we’re looking at this remarkable woman’s life through the lens of how she represented American womanhood more broadly. As Karen writes in the book, “Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis was a person, but she also served as a symbol of broader cultural expectations.” And what Karen found through her research here was totally fascinating. Jackie's designer Oleg Cassini called her “a powerful symbol for the United States,” and she held power as a public figure, both domestically and internationally. It goes without saying that American womanhood changed dramatically from 1960 and John F. Kennedy’s election to the presidency and 1994 and Jackie’s far too soon death. Jackie’s life is examined through her time as a campaign wife to First Lady to widow to a wife again after remarrying Aristotle Onassis to becoming a career woman and an icon. As Karen writes in the book of Jackie, “She often followed a path of her own choosing, enduring the ebbs and flows of assessments about her much as she did the transition from campaign wife to first lady and then beyond. Response to her may have reflected broader ideas about American womanhood. But she was just being herself.” This book specifically zooms in on media coverage of Jackie and how that framed her narrative, and I gobbled it up. Here on the show today we have the pleasure of hosting Dr. Karen M. Dunak, professor and Arthur G. and Eloise Barnes Cole Chair of American History in the Department of History at Muskingum University. Prior to Our Jackie, Karen was the author of As Long as We Both Shall Love: The White Wedding in Postwar America, and she is a contributor to Of the People: A History of the United States. Her research interests include post-World War II U.S. history, American women’s history, gender and sexuality, and social movements, and celebrity and media in U.S. history, and her work has appeared in many academic journals. I can’t wait for you to hear what she has to say.

Our Jackie: Public Claims on a Private Life by Dr. Karen M. Dunak

What an episode we have for you today, listeners. Today on the show we have the phenomenal Terri Cole, whose work about boundaries I have so resonated with in the past. She has a new book out on October 15 called Too Much: A Guide to Breaking the Cycle of High-Functioning Codependency, and it examines what we thought we knew about codependency. We have had the godmother of codependency, Melody Beattie, on the show, and Melody introduced the concept to the world. Now, in Too Much, Terri is taking the concept to the next level, introducing us to high-functioning codependency. In today’s conversation we define what high-functioning codependency, or HFC, is, what it looks like, some common behaviors exhibited by those who have it, and how those with HFC got to this place. You also might have heard this called “overfunctioning.” You’ll hear me say this many times throughout this episode, but I identify as a recovering HFC, and Terri writes that these behaviors are “highly programmed and largely unconscious.” Terri, too, is a recovering HFC, and writes in Too Much that “prioritizing the wants, needs, and outcomes of others over my own well-being was my default setting.” She talks about the moment she knew she couldn’t go on this way, and the book is a deeply personal one to her. We also talk about how we draw the line from being caring and a high-functioning codependent — and when we know, as the book’s title suggests, that it’s too much. By the way, when it comes to romantic relationships, codependents are attracted to narcissists, and the reverse is true, as well. The book talks about how we can prevent this deeply unhealthy combination. In our conversation today, we talk about the cost to a life if one doesn’t address their high-functioning codependency, and how the key to getting to the other side is boundaries. Now, Terri is an expert in boundaries; her book prior to Too Much, which I also highly recommend, is called Boundary Boss: The Essential Guide to Talk True, Be Seen, and (Finally) Live Free. I do think it’s important to note that reversing high-functioning codependency is absolutely possible, but it isn’t a linear path or a straight line, and that those working through this should expect setbacks. You know what? People could probably live their whole lives with high-functioning codependency, but because of Terri’s book, they won’t want to, and they don’t have to. Terri Cole, MSW, LCSW, is a licensed psychotherapist and global relationship and empowerment expert and has been doing this work for over 25 years. She is the host of a podcast I love, “The Terri Cole Show,” and inspires over 600,000 people weekly. She has a deep gift for making complex psychological concepts actionable and accessible so that clients achieve sustainable change. This conversation with Terri meant a lot to me, and I bet it will to you, too. Take a listen.

Too Much: A Guide to Breaking the Cycle of High-Functioning Codependency by Terri Cole

Check out Terri’s HFC Toolkit at terricole.com/hfc and visit hfcbook.com/ for more information!

Today on the show to kick off season 14 is a second-time guest: Kathy Iandoli, who we spoke to back in 2021 about her book on the legendary Aaliyah. And Kathy is back with a book she co-wrote with another legendary musician—Eve, who in a word, is just fabulous. In the book, we learn so much about this rapper, actress, talk show host, and multihyphenate, including that she felt cursed by being born with the name Eve—as in the first woman, Eve, according to the Bible. We talk today with Kathy about Eve’s childhood in Philadelphia and how that molded her into the woman she is today; how she opened so many doors for women in music—rap specifically—as the First Lady of Ruff Ryderz, and what it was like to be a female in such a male-dominated industry; the biggest obstacle she faced in her 25-year career; and what she’s really like when the spotlight is off of her. We also talk about Eve being 43 when she gave birth for the first time to her son, Wilde, and how that shifted her life. As she writes towards the end of Who’s That Girl?, which is out September 17, “The ride isn’t as rough anymore, and I’m enjoying every minute of it.” (“Who’s That Girl?” by the way, is probably my favorite Eve song.) You know who Eve is—she’s a Grammy-winning rapper and singer with singles like the aforementioned “Who’s That Girl?,” “Let Me Blow Ya Mind,” and “Tambourine”; she’s an actress who has appeared in films like Barbershop and television shows like Queens; she’s a talk show host and has been on The Talk and The Real; and now she’s an author. She’s also a history maker, by the way—when she won the Grammy Award for Best Rap/Sung Collaboration for “Let Me Blow Ya Mind” with Gwen Stefani, she was the first recipient ever of that award. I love that. Today on the show we have Eve’s fantastic co-writer Kathy Iandoli, who has written everywhere from Vibe to The Source, The Village Voice, Rolling Stone, Billboard, Cosmopolitan, and so much more. Kathy specializes in music, specifically hip-hop, and has written books like God Save the Queens: The Essential History of Women in Hip-Hop and the aforementioned Baby Girl: Better Known as Aaliyah, among others. She’s also a professor of music business at New York University, a documentarian who has produced film projects on women in hip-hop for BBC and Netflix (including the award-winning Ladies First!), and one of my favorite guests. I’m so happy to have her back on.

Who’s That Girl?: A Memoir by Eve and Kathy Iandoli

Today’s episode is a tough one—but it is also such a beautiful one. I want to insert a trigger warning here: my guest and I will be discussing the loss of a child to stillbirth today, so if you are grieving any type of pregnancy loss (or any type of loss, period) this conversation may be upsetting to you. Please take care of yourself and return to the conversation when you can. This is an absolutely beautiful, powerful conversation with a dear friend of mine, Vera Chapman, who is also the first children’s book author we’ve ever had on the show. Vera’s book, Our Baby In Our Hearts, focuses on the real life experience that her two living children, Grayson and Ivey, faced when confronted with the loss of their baby brother, Hayes, on February 15, 2021. (Yes, this episode is being released on Hayes’ third birthday.) Our Baby In Our Hearts offers practical mindfulness exercises to help young hearts cope with big feelings. It is also stunningly illustrated and will truly be so moving to anyone, but especially anyone who has experienced pregnancy loss. After losing Hayes in 2021, Vera has turned her pain into purpose, not only writing this book but also creating the “Light in Loss” daily healing affirmation cards series for women. She is the founder of the wellness coaching practice Resonating Soul Wellness and has over a decade of experience supporting women through coaching and counseling. I am so proud to call her my friend, and today’s esteemed guest.

Our Baby In Our Hearts: A Mindful Story of Grief and Healing by Vera V. Chapman

Daily affirmation cards for grieving mothers and women

More affirmations for both women and children

Follow Vera on Instagram @veravchapman!

I first became familiar with the dynamic Jennie Allen in the thick of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, when my Bible study group did a study on Jennie’s book Get Out of Your Head: Stopping the Spiral of Toxic Thoughts, which is a book worth reading anytime, but especially in the summer of 2020. Now she’s back with a new book called Untangle Your Emotions: Naming What You Feel and Knowing What to Do About It, which is out February 13. As you’ll hear Jennie and I discuss, Untangle Your Emotions is a perfect companion piece to Get Out of Your Head which, by the way, was a New York Times bestseller. Untangle Your Emotions dives deep into understanding where our emotions come from, what to do with them, and how to honor God in processing all that we feel. Jennie admits that this is the most difficult book she’s ever written, and the subject matter is tough—but through this book and this conversation, if we take it all to heart, we can walk away so much the better for it. Jennie—thank you for writing a difficult book. It will touch so many lives, and it has already touched mine.

Untangle Your Emotions: Naming What You Feel and Knowing What to Do About It by Jennie Allen

Today on the show we have the remarkable Patti Davis, daughter of U.S. President Ronald Reagan and First Lady Nancy Reagan. Patti’s new book, Dear Mom and Dad: A Letter About Family, Memory, and the America We Once Knew is a book, in Patti’s own words, about acceptance, forgiveness, and moving on from the past, a book that—though Patti’s parents were much more famous than most, even before her father entered politics—anyone can relate to. There’s not a person among us who hasn’t at one point or another struggled with their parents, as the parent-child relationship is so complicated; this is Patti’s story, and it’s a powerful one. When her father became president, Patti became Ribbon, her Secret Service code name. The complexities that go along with being the child of a president are daunting, and we talk about that in today’s episode, as well as family secrets, living life as the world watched, and what she’d like to say to her father and mother after their deaths in 2004 and 2016, respectively.

Dear Mom and Dad: A Letter About Family, Memory, and the America We Once Knew by Patti Davis

The Long Goodbye: Memories of My Father by Patti Davis

I am so pleased to have Dr. Caroline Leaf on the show today to impart knowledge from her 30-year career as an applied neuroscientist. I originally intended to do a career retrospective on Dr. Leaf’s many books, but quickly realized that if I did that, this would become an hours and hours long episode. So I decided to choose one of her books, Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess: 5 Simple, Scientifically Proven Steps to Reduce Anxiety, Stress, and Toxic Thinking, to zoom in on for our conversation today—but I highly recommend all of her books. In this book (and in this conversation), she teaches us what mental mess is, how to practice mind management, what neuroplasticity is, and about the neurocycle, which she formulated. The neurocycle has, amazingly, statistically reduced depression and anxiety by a staggering 81 percent! I guarantee you’ll learn something in this episode, and for this episode in particular, I’d recommend listening when you can really absorb what Dr. Leaf is saying. Some episodes on the show are light and frothy and can be listened to while multitasking; I’d say this episode is not one of those. To get maximum impact from what Dr. Leaf is teaching us, set aside some time for yourself to truly take all of this in, because you know what? You deserve it. Dr. Leaf is also a podcaster, and in addition to her own show, “Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess,” she is an extremely frequent guest on other podcasts. That’s actually how I found Dr. Leaf—from hearing her on other podcasts and then discovering her work. She has spent three decades researching the mind-brain connection, the nature of mental health, and the formation of memory, and her work centers around helping people learn how to use their mind to detox and grow their brain to succeed in every area of their lives—talk about work that truly matters!

Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess: 5 Simple, Scientifically Proven Steps to Reduce Anxiety, Stress, and Toxic Thinking by Dr. Caroline Leaf

A link to all of Dr. Leaf’s books

Welcome one, welcome all to season 10 of I’d Rather Be Reading! As ever, I’m so happy to have you here and a part of this community—don’t forget to reach out if you ever want to chat books at helloidratherbereading@gmail.com. For our season opener today, we have the fantastic Julie Menanno, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist, an expert couple’s therapist, and the person behind the popular Instagram account @TheSecureRelationship, which has over 1 million followers. I have long been interested in attachment theory and attachment styles, and there is secure attachment (the ideal which we should all strive for) and three different insecure attachments—anxious, avoidant, and disorganized. Julie will explain what all of that means in the episode, and how we can work towards bringing a secure attachment to our relationships. Beyond just attachment styles, Julie brings so much wisdom and insight into how we navigate romantic relationships, and how we can create a healthy relationship that will, as the subtitle suggests, last a lifetime.

Secure Love: Create a Relationship That Lasts a Lifetime by Julie Menanno

For our season nine finale I have a legendary journalist, Laurence Leamer, here to talk about his book Capote’s Women: A True Story of Love, Betrayal, and a Swan Song for an Era, which is the basis for the new Ryan Murphy show on FX, Feud: Capote vs. the Swans. (I loved the first iteration of Feud—about Bette Davis and Joan Crawford—and I love everything Ryan Murphy does.) The show has a cast as deep as any ocean: Naomi Watts. Diane Lane. Demi Moore. Calista Flockhart. Chloe Sevigny. Molly Ringwald. And Tom Hollander as Truman Capote. It premieres on FX on January 31 (and the next day on Hulu) and it will be appointment television for me. Through this book, this series, and this conversation, we dip our toe into New York City high society, into the world of Truman Capote and his “Swans”—glamorous women who were Capote’s closest confidantes. Babe Paley, Slim Keith, CZ Guest, Gloria Guinness, Pamela Harriman, Lee Radziwell, and Marella Agnelli were not just beautiful and wealthy, but intelligent and interesting. Then, enter the “feud” portion of the program: Capote wrote a piece for Esquire called “La Cote Basque 1965,” in which he puts the Swans’ dirty secrets in black and white, and in print for the entire world to read. The women cut Capote off totally; it was social suicide, and it led to Capote’s downfall that ultimately resulted in his death. Why did he do this? He thought they’d be too dumb to know the piece was about them. It was one of the worst decisions he could have ever made. Here to tell us all about it is the legendary Laurence Leamer, who is regarded as an expert on the Kennedy family and who has written biographies of not just the Kennedys but also the Reagans, Johnny Carson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ingrid Bergman, and Donald Trump’s resort, Mar-a-Lago. By the way, I have to throw this detail in here—his book about Mar-a-Lago was controversial and banned him from the resort for life. Not unlike that detail, this book and this conversation are as compelling as it comes.

Capote’s Women: A True Story of Love, Betrayal, and a Swan Song for an Era by Laurence Leamer

“La Cote Basque” by Truman Capote for Esquire

No matter if you are a parent or not, this conversation is for you—after all, we all have parents, right? Today’s guest is Dr. Aliza Pressman, a Dartmouth and Columbia-educated developmental psychologist whose new book The 5 Principles of Parenting: Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans is out January 23. In today’s conversation we discuss her five principles, all of which begin with R: relationships, reflection, regulation, rules, and repair, all leading to the sixth R, which is resilience. We talk today about the science and art of parenting—how there is no right way to parent, reparenting ourselves, how it feels harder than ever to be a parent. Parenting is, simply put, the hardest work anyone will ever do—I can’t wait for all of you parents to hear what Dr. Pressman has to say in this episode, and I hope that it absolves you of your mom guilt or dad guilt. I hope her words will give you the permission you need to let that guilt go, once and for all. It is such an enriching conversation. Dr. Pressman has an extremely popular podcast of her own, “Raising Good Humans," and she herself is the mother of two teenagers and has a lot of wisdom to impart to us.

The 5 Principles of Parenting: Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans by Dr. Aliza Pressman