#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

It’s all about people and its all about network.

Today’s guest on #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation is Alex Brees CEO and Founder of un:hurd music, a music tech company that uses proprietary technology to help artists reach their most valuable fans via data-led marketing campaigns. 

Throughout this conversation, Alex offers valuable insights into the evolving landscape of the music industry, the importance of data in crafting effective marketing strategies, and the challenges and opportunities for artists in the digital age. He emphasizes the need for artists to be adaptable, understand their audience deeply, and leverage data not just for short-term gains like playlist placements but for building a sustainable and engaged fan base.

The conversation begins with Alex detailing his educational path, studying psychology at university, which unexpectedly paved the way to a career in sales and marketing. Despite not having a formal education in sales, Alex highlights the crucial role that selling skills play in entrepreneurial success, a realization he came to understand during his university days. After university, he moved to London to tap into more significant opportunities in tech, driven by a fascination with data's power to influence marketing strategies as inspired by books like “Dataclysm: Who We Are (When We Think No One's Looking)” 

Transition to Tech and Data Analysis:

In London, Alex transitioned from basic sales roles to more complex positions where he could analyze data to drive marketing decisions. Then his tenure at a Global Investment firm, Carlyle, where he worked as a trading analyst. Here, Alex's role was pivotal in converting consumer behaviour data into actionable marketing insights, helping the company optimize its advertising spend and grow its market presence rapidly.

In the Music Industry:

Parallel to his tech career, Alex's love for music led him to organize music events, particularly in the UK rap scene, which was then burgeoning. His efforts not only provided a platform for emerging artists but also challenged the negative stereotypes often associated with the genre, thus opening more venues to these performers. This side venture eventually steered his career fully into the music industry.

Universal Music:

Alex's passion for music and data culminated in a role at Universal Music as a global analyst. Here, he was responsible for using data to optimize marketing campaigns for top-tier artists like Katy Perry and Lady Gaga. His work involved a mix of quantitative analysis—looking at streaming and social media data—and qualitative research, such as market surveys to better understand fan desires and expectations.

un:hurd:

Drawing from his many experiences, Alex founded un:hurd, a platform designed to support underrepresented artists by using data-driven strategies to boost their careers. The platform helps artists understand their audience through detailed analysis and effective marketing strategies, mirroring the analytical approaches he honed in his previous roles but focusing on empowering smaller artists and indie labels.

un:hurd music is powerful, seamless music promotion at your fingertips. It offers you the ability to build effective promotional campaigns across all of your platforms that matter. Their technology creates a tailored list of marketing suggestions based on the user’s data and in just a few clicks, one can pitch to playlists, reach new fans on social media and launch a fan hub. Since launching, un:hurd has worked with over 65,000 artists from 129 countries, has raised over £2mil from some of the worlds most influential music investors, been featured as one of Music Ally’s start-ups to watch and has featured on BBC Dragons Den.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

un:hurd

00:10 - Byta.com

06:10 - London Drill and Trap promoting

08:14 - Being an analyst at Universal Music

10:17 - Major label resources, what that means

12:00 - The transition from Universal Music to un:hurd

12:50 - My Analyst superpowers

15:50 - Competitor analysis for music

17:30 - Wanting to scale up to help millions of musicians

20:45 - learn by doing

21:55 - What does un:hurd do for its clients

23:30 - Byta.com

24:00 - Playlisting is important, but just a part of the puzzle

26:30 - Playlist is NOT the answer

28:30 - know what your goal is as an artist 

32:00 - Spotify playlist pitching & third-party playlists

33:33 - Building momentum

35:00 - Be yourself?

36:00 - Be consistent & own your audience

39:00 - How do Majors do it and does it work for DIY?

42:00 - Create as much awareness as possible

43:15 - #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

44:45 - ABT (Always be testing) test your content types

45:50 - Always create what feels true to you,

48:30 - rasing capital for Tech.

52:42 - It's all about people, and it's all about network

54:30 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

I think PR today is more of a content coordinator or content facilitator because content right now is so fragmented across so many different mediums. Our job is really to generate awareness for what our clients are doing.

Today’s guest on #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation  is Nancy Lu a seasoned New York-based publicist with over a decade of experience, she describes her journey from healthcare consulting and tech startups to establishing her own PR firm, Fancy PR. 

Nancy discusses her initial reluctance to pursue a career in the arts due to the instability perceived by her immigrant family background and societal expectations. However, her passion for music and involvement in the music scene in Washington D.C., where she made significant connections and wrote about music for pleasure, eventually led her to shift her career path toward her true passion.

Nancy explains the complexities of modern public relations, which has transcended traditional media to include various content platforms, making the role of a publicist more about content coordination and opportunity creation. She emphasizes the importance of understanding and personally connecting with artists to effectively communicate their stories and project visions. This approach not only enhances campaign strategies but also aligns with her belief that resonating with an artist's work can significantly improve a publicist's efficacy.

Throughout the conversation, Nancy discusses the strategic aspects of PR, such as managing expectations, defining the scope of work with clients, and the importance of strategic planning in campaign success. She touches on the challenges faced by independent artists and the role of publicists in amplifying their existing momentum rather than building it from scratch. Nancy also addresses the critical need for more inclusivity in the industry, praising initiatives like incubator programs aimed at underserved communities.

During their conversation Marc and Nancy also explore how the digital age has changed the expectations and methodologies in PR, requiring publicists to be more creative and integrated in their approach to media and content. They discuss the importance of data and analytics in shaping PR strategies and the continuous need for adaptation to the ever-evolving media landscape.

The conversation wraps up with Nancy advocating for a realistic and informed approach to PR, where understanding the artist's current standing and potential trajectory is crucial for effective publicity. She stresses that while AI may assist in streamlining processes, the creative and human aspects of public relations remain irreplaceable, underscoring the artistry behind crafting impactful public relations campaigns.

Fancy PR

The Fancy PR Story – Founded in 2013, Fancy PR is a boutique full-service public relations agency committed to storytelling. From crafting artists’ narratives to placing high-impact stories and driving cultural conversations, they love what they do. As an AAPI woman-owned Business, we’re moved by diversity, equity and inclusion in the arts and believe in the power of fans and building community.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Fancy PR

00:10 - Byta.com

02:44 - from Health Care to Tech to Music

04:24 - Wanting music but no one to look to

07:00 - DC and music connections getting started

10:15 - Moving to NYC and Girlie Action

11:36 - Post intern and Vitalic Noise

13:17 - move to Fancy PR and getting started

14:39 - Is PR today all about being a content coordinator or content facilitator

16:22 - Define the scope of work

17:30 - strategy for small vs bigger artists

20:37 - Onboarding a new client and transparency, goals

23:25 - PR usually works on retainer

24:39 - Live events are now key

26:00 - #1 set up foundation of awareness…

30:00 - Integrate your publicist into the team, share the stats

31:00 - Byta.com

32:00 - “The Report”, delivering good and bad news

36:00 - Timelines, when to pitch & when to go back

38:30 - The cold call

39:00 - Do not paste a press release into a DM

40:30 - Where do new artists need to start

42:55 - Make it personal, its not just about the music

46:00 - Don’t be a clown, unless you are a clown

48:00 - Timelines, scheduling 

50:00 - Too early, too late

50:30 - Do you need a PR?

54:30 - AI, Publicists are humans

56:00 - Byta.com

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"I'm reaching out to people because of their work ethic and because of their consistency. I believe in their journey and I feel like it's only a matter of time before something huge happens"

Our guest on today’s episode is Obinna Agwu. Newly appointed A&R Executive at Horus Music Nigeria, Obinna Agwu is also an artiste manager and music business consultant and podcaster with years of experience working in the Nigerian music industry. He is experienced in working closely with a variety of industry partners and managing internal/external relationships. As mentioned he also hosts a music industry-based podcast known as The Listening Sessions Podcast.

Prior to joining Horus Music, Obinna worked at Boomplay as their Artiste Relations Manager, executing over twenty major releases and securing top talents like ILLBliss, Laycon, Hotyce and Ugochee for Boomplay’s Hip-Hop initiative,  “Pass The Mic”. Obinna also oversaw planning and rollout for El Dee The Don’s ‘Undeniable’ whilst working at Trybe Records, and while at the Chocolate City record label (generally regarded as one of the most successful indigenous urban record labels in Africa) he oversaw the Plantation Boiz’s Plan B album, And The Bass is Queen by Lindsey Abudei, M.I Abaga’s debut album ‘Talk About It’, and many other projects.

Marc and Obinna talk about how artists can be better prepared to help move their music and careers forward. They also talk about the history of the music industry in  Nigeria, the Afrobeats explosion and why there is more to Nigeria than Afrobeats.  

Obinna spoke to us from Lagos, Nigeria.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Horace Music

Horace Music Nigeria

Trybe Records, and the Chocolate City record label

Boomplay

West & East Africa

Afrobeat

The Listening Sessions Podcast

00:10 - Byta.com

02:35 - From Boomplay to Horace Music Nigeria

04:22 - Radio promotion back in the good old days & A&R

09:11 - Artists out front, maybe too soon

11:46 - People expect excellence

15:10 - South African music industry

17:00 - Nigerian music industry relationship with South Africa

22:53 - From radio to steaming and Boomplay

27:00 - How do new artists approach the music industry in Nigeria

29:30 - Are Nigerian artists looking to sign to major labels

35:35 - How does Horace Music support creators

37:25 - How do artists get to 20 000 streams

42:45 - How do artists decide how to develop their careers

45:43 - A&R is a new concept in Nigeria. Payola

50:40 - the vibrant music scene in Nigeria

54:00 - The Listening Sessions Podcast

55:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"When I first hear a song, it doesn't matter if it was released today, one year ago or 10 years ago. It's new to me, the moment I first hear it, and that's the same for your fans."

Our guest on today’s episode is Mike Warner, founder of Work Hard Playlist Hard – The DIY playlist guide for Artists and Curators. Mike is also the Head of Editorial Marketing Partnerships for North America at Believe, the global music distributor. As the go-to authority at the forefront of the digital music world, for all things streaming, we get into it with Mike. Find out how he got started as a DJ in Australia and then eventually made his way to California. How unemployment can lead to some great ideas, opportunities and even a book. Let's find out about the path that led to Mike eventually ending up at Believe USA for his day job, yes he loves a day job.  Throughout this episode, Marc brings a bucket of questions to the table. Mike gets more specific about some excellent strategies, timelines and how to approach building a team. He also explains a few unique ways artists can get noticed by the many Digital Service Providers (DSP) out there. 

The biggest lessons offered up: 

• Don’t give up and don’t ignore any of the streaming services. 
• Artists should always be talking about their work no matter when the music was released. 
• A song is “new” the moment people hear it, even if it is 1 or 10 years old. 

Mike spoke to us from California, USA.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Believe

Work Hard Playlist Hard – The DIY playlist guide for Artists and Curators

Chartmetric

00:10 - Byta.com

02:20 - I grew up in Australia

03:39 - All I wanted to be was a DJ

06:10 - I moved to the USA and could not work so researched streaming services

08:40 -Pay a fee & get on a streaming platform: DistroKidt, CD Baby, TuneCore

09:00 - Other platforms provide services on top of that- The Orchard Ingrooves and Believe

11:55 - The band Date Night

13:00 - Writing the book: Work Hard Playlist Hard

20:18 - Fill in the forms and pitch your music to the DSPs

27:52 - What is an editorial playlist

29:07 - Spotify only allow you to pitch one track at a time

30:18 - Amazon Music: Pitch your music everywhere

32:00 - Pandora, only in the US, but a lot of listeners and great artist support

36:15 - Tidal for artists, “Rising Artists”

40:23 - Make a plan, talk up your music

43:31 - 8 Weeks before release, stick to a schedule

47:05 - Don't be disheartened, people take longer to discover new music today

49:30 - Its new the first time you hear it

51:56 - Finding your team- ask lots of questions.

56:00 - How I got on the Starbucks playlist

59:00 - Reach out on LinkedIn

59:30 - Creating your own playlists and exchanging music with other curators

1:03:20 - Working with labels and distributors

1:04:00 - The New Spotify user interface, Spotify canvas

1:10:00 - What are publishers looking for?

1:12:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

“I didn't know anything about the music industry. I didn't know that there were publicists trying to push stuff. I was clueless. So getting emails at the start was really cool, especially when it was from artists that I recognized.”

Our guest on today’s episode is Jason Grishkoff the founder of SubmitHub.  With just a hop, skip and a jump, Jason moved from the world of high finance to working at tech giant Google. Then a side hustle and hobby – the Indie Shuffle Blog (it’s music discovery powered by real people.), led to founding SubmitHub. The goal was to efficiently and transparently connect artists with curators, the “right” people, in order to get music heard more efficiently.

One of the key stages of getting your music heard and promoted outside of your own network is accessing the world’s music curators, but who are they? How can artists and creators access these curators and influencers themselves? This is what SubmitHub is an expert in. The platform was built with musicians and curators in mind. You upload your music, then use pay-for credits to submit it to trusted and user-scored curators (there is a free song-submission feature as well). They listen and then respond directly from within the SubmitHub platform.

Byta’s Marc Brown has always tried to impart as much wisdom as possible to anyone wanting to operate within the music ecosystem. DIY is your best first step, finding out how everything works, by trying and often failing for the first time. There are no shortcuts. This was a great conversation between two people trying to do similar things in different ways.

Jason spoke to us from Cape Town,  South Africa

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

SubmitHub

Indie Shuffle

00:10 - Byta.com

03:15 - NAPSTER

03:57 - 2007 music

07:54 - Indie Shuffle

09:00 - MP3 Blogs

09:40 - Web Sheriff

13:18 - The advantage of a publicist

17:36 - SubmitHub explained

21:23 - Solving the problem of email inconsistency

25:33 - Hype Machine

27:38 - Knowing who you are and what you want as an artist

33:30 - How to approach advertising your music

39:00 - Who should I send my music to?

43:03 - How to take advantage of playlists

48:32 - The difference between followers and listeners

55:46 - Playlist pitfalls

58:35 - Pay for playlisting/fake playlists

1:01:00 - What else is an artist to do?

1:03:00 - TikTok

1:06:00 - Take Spotify out for drinks, if you can find them

1:08:00 - Get as much traction in your first 28 days as possible

1:12:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"A fan a day" is basically anything that you’re doing to grow. Everything that you do should be cognisant of building an audience...

This episode features a panel discussion moderated by Marc Brown, Founder & CEO, Byta / byta.com 

Our guests are:  Mira Silvers (Head of Music, FORT Agency), Nikisha Bailey (GM, Nvak Collective Executive Board, The Recording Academy Global Co-Chair, Diversity & Inclusion, Women In Music) & Phil Loutsis (VP Community, AWAL)

Live music, festivals, and conferences. All of a sudden people were back in the same rooms listening to and talking about music again. 2022 was the year music finally came back from COVID.  Some of the same old challenges that have always been there did not go away. This episode comes up with a few ideas to move a music career forward.

 Here is a little more information on our panelists:

Mira Silvers

Originally from Atlanta, Mira Silvers is a young music executive & polymath, who serves as the General Manager/Co-Founder of VICEVERSA, an emerging social-based record label and artist incubation platform. Additionally, she is an artist manager and the Head of Music at FORT, an independent female-led and Brown-owned agency focusing on a highly curated roster of artists for live development.

Phil Loutsis

Phil focuses his energies on helping indie artists build their careers. Part of his role at AWAL includes curating content to help creators and managers make the best use of their resources. A big part of building and sustaining those music careers – harnessing community with artists, creators and their teams. He enables artists and their teams to better tell their stories.

Nikisha Bailey

Forbes “Next 1000 list 2021” honoree, Nikisha Bailey is a community-driven entrepreneur, entertainment executive, and philanthropist with a lifelong commitment to music. Professionally, she is the General Manager for the Nvak Collective – a next-generation record label & artist advocacy collective that embraces web3 to drive change for creators and intellectual property. She also serves as Vice President for The Recording Academy’s New York Chapter and is an Ambassador for the Academy’s Black Music Collective (BMC). 

Even if you stumble on this podcast deep into 2023, or further down the road, the ideas, strategies and inspired conversation that take place in this episode are well worth a listen, are still relevant. Sustaining a career in music has never been easy but the landscape seems to be changing at an increased pace... or is it. Some things remain the same- like hard work and treating your music and yourself like a business, other things- streaming, TikTok offer up new opportunities and challenges.

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

02:49 - FORT Agency, MMF Canada, VICEVERSA Records

03:51 - AWAL

04:32 - Nvak Collective, The Recording Academy, Women In Music

14:13 - Chartmetric

19:57 - Girl In Red

25:53 - 1000 Super Fans

30:49 - Byta

33:00 - Muni Long

33:31 - Jazmine Sullivan, Denzel Curry

40:15 - Artist as CEO

51:57 -  SubmitHub

55:21 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Bonus Material: 

#MethodToMyMusic weekly interviews

Digital Dialogue Guest Blogs

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"DO IT TOGETHER- You learn by doing, you navigate the systems and the complicated processes, by jumping right into it with curiosity and humility, learn as you go, and then share what you're learning."

Our guest on today’s episode is Kevin Erickson, Director of The Future of Music Coalition (FMC).  Kevin has contributed opinion pieces to outlets as disparate as The Nation and Pitchfork, volunteers with Positive Force DC, and remains active as a musician and record producer, operating Swim-Two-Birds recording studio in DC, alongside husband Hugh McElroy. Before joining FMC’s team in 2012, he directed the All Ages Movement Project, a national non-profit network of all-ages music venues and youth music programs. The Future of Music Coalition is a Washington D.C.-based nonprofit organization supporting a musical ecosystem where artists flourish and are compensated fairly and transparently for their work.

The FMC’s work is rooted in the real-world experiences and ambitions of working musicians, whose perspectives are often overlooked in policy debates. The FMC works with musicians, composers and industry stakeholders to identify solutions to shared challenges. They promote strategies, policies, technologies and educational initiatives that always put artists first while recognizing the role music fans play in shaping the future.

This episode does not just talk policy and lobbying, but real work tips and tricks on helping musicians connect, develop community and more than anything else pay attention to what the world at large and larger corporations are imposing on creative musicians.

Kevin spoke to us from Washington, DC

Show Notes

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Future Of Music Coalition, Staff

All Ages Movement Project

Positive Force DC

00:10 - Byta.com

12:00 - Universal Music Group

13:21 - Clear Channel, iHeart Radio

17:00 - Ticketmaster, Live Nation

24:00 - Puppets, more here

26:00 - Music Modernization Act

30:00 -  Byta.com

35:00 - Healthcare for Musicians USA

36:00 - Affordable Care Act

38:00 - Terrestrial Radio Royalties

40:00 - House Judiciary Committee

43:30 - Huw Stephens

50:00 - DIY, DITO

55:00 - Future of Music Coalition YouTube

56:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"Radio will never die…"

"You have to define yourself and create your own brand. I normally don’t like that ethos that you have to create a brand, but you can definitely do it in a way that stays true to yourself."

Our guest on today’s episode is Saidah Blount, Executive Producer at SONOS Radio, she is also their Primary Impact Storyteller. What does that job title mean exactly? She lets us know. Storytelling is at the heart of what Byta believes is one of the most important elements of promoting one’s self: always control your narrative. So Marc and Saidah get into it. Saidah followed a very unique path from the midwest to New York, one that included music journalism, stopping off at NPR for a few years and eventually landing at SONOS. Her north star was always music and trying to figure out how she could somehow incorporate that into her work life. She realized early on that working in the music industry proper was not for her, so she had to figure out another way, to do it on her own terms. She is a big fan of radio, having grown up in Kansas City one of the first big radio markets in the USA, plus both her parents were big music fans. Marc has a long history in Radio as well, so they discuss the differences between curated playlists (by real people VS AI),  and old-school radio, and the future of “radio”. How can musicians make contact with the people at SONOS to have their music heard and played? Spoiler alert- persistence seems to be the answer. It is a great conversation that goes down some surprising and very insightful paths and Shazam.

Saidah spoke to us from Brooklyn, New York

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

01:58 - Sonos Radio

05:14 - Kansas City Radio

08:22 - NYC 2000s

11:15 - Interview Magazine

14:05 - National Public Radio

16:06 - radio.SONOS.com

22:40 - Shazam, auto Shazam 

25:25 - Byta.com

26:00 - Imaginary Sound Track

28:10 - Black is Black, DJ Lindsey Caldwell

29:00 - Jamaican & country music 

30:00 - Women in Sound, Women in Sound ‘zine

32:00 - Bob Boilen

34:00 - Bandcamp

42:00 - Huw Stephens

45:00 - DEI initiatives

50:00 Thom of Radiohead

51:00 - Erykah Badu

52:00 - Dolly Parton

53:00 - Tems

57:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"The number one thing to never, ever do, would be to set a release date before your music is done."

Our guest on today’s episode is Kevin Breuner, Senior VP of Engagement and Education at CD Baby. Kevin’s job at CD Baby is all about making sure musicians are as prepared as possible when planning to release their music into the world. Marc and Kevin talk about how Kevin went from being a Grammy-nominated musician to working with CD Baby. Along the way, Kevin also offers up all kinds of great advice on being ready when you release your next album or single.

Previously VP of Marketing at CD Baby, Kevin’s new role reinforces what CD Baby is all about: making sure musicians are as prepared as possible when planning to release their music into the world. At CD Baby, Kevin created the DIY Musician brand, which has become the cornerstone of CD Baby’s mission statement.

Kevin came to us from Atlanta, Georgia

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

02:14 - Music Biz

02:16 - CD Baby

02:55 - CD Baby podcasts, blog, conferences

04:03 - Smalltown Poets

04:11 - Belmont University

04:20 - Producer John Hampton

06:46 - The 90s Christian music scene

08:00 - GRAMMY nominated, Dove awards

11:15 - iTunes(Apple Music) 

11:40 - MP3 players

12:15 - DIY podcast

14:30 - Streaming changed everything

26:555 - Grassroots marketing

28:30 - KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid

29:20 - Set a release date before your music is done

36:45  - CD Baby release plan generator

42:22 - Discover Weekly

52:36 - People like seeing videos 

57:00 - You want to own the relationship

1:04:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"The better the song, the more likely it is to get synced and the more people will listen to it."

This episode’s guest is Miller Williams, Senior VP Creative at Kobalt Music Publishing. Miller’s role at Kobalt covers A&R, songwriter services, and catalogue acquisitions. He also works with their international agents and sub-publishers to exploit their songs and help their writers with co-write opportunities. Signings include Becky Hill, Milow, Jef Martens, Houston Comma publishing, Carla Monroe, AJ Tracy, Martin Sjolie, and Alex Clare. Williams has also held similar A&R and/or creative positions at Sony ATV UK, BMG Records UK, PWL Records UK, and Terrace Music (Nashville). In this episode, Miller talks about going from zero to hero, getting synchs and how things work when you are writing and pitching songs to K-Pop and J-Pop artists. They also get into how things are working in Africa these days and of course how Miller made it into the music ecosystem to start with.

Kobalt is one of the most successful independent companies for music publishing, label services and rights management. In his role as Senior Vice President of Creative there, Miller works across A&R, collaborations and music marketing.

"Yeah! Usually what I find is that if you scratch beneath the surface, the artists who have become successful have done a ton of work behind the scenes that no one has known about. I don’t think there’s any shortcut to success. Lil Nas X did become famous quite quickly through TikTok, but he’s proven that he can write hit after hit which is another important thing - longevity. That’s a real skill to be able to keep going and reinvent yourself."

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

02:06 - Kobalt

6:15 - Belmont College

6:20 - PWL

6:22 - Global Talent Publishing

8:45 - BIMM & ICMP

10:18 - Berklee Music

12:12 - Orbital

16:55 - MP3s and downloads

23:00 - NTFs

27:35 - Japan

30:27 - Katie Gregson

36:13 - Vaccines

38:40 - Justin Bieber finds Omah Lay

41:44 - Ultra Records

44:10 - Adapter

45:42 - Ive released “Love Dive” 

48:34 - emPawa Africa

49:09 - Chioma Onuchukwu.

51:24 - WizKiz, BurnaBoy, Mr Eazi, Tems

52:37 - SAMRO

53:00 - Sheer Music 

53:42 - SOCAN

54:33 - Sentric Music

55:48 - Artist Journey

58:24 - PRS (Performing Right Society), 

                  MCPS (collects and distributes mechanical royalties to songwriters, composers and publishers) 

1:01:43 - Corinne Bailey Rae, Like a Star, “Put Your Records On”

1:05:57 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu