Fire Science Show – Details, episodes & analysis

Demand for the energy storage is as high as ever, and is about to triple-quadruple. The development of technology is at unprecedented phase, and even within a single project you may face different cell, battery or container generations. This pace reshapes how we think about battery energy storage safety, from enclosure design to emergency response. We sat down with Noah Ryder from the Fire and Risk Alliance to unpack how BESS has evolved from walk-in containers to dense, modular “refrigerator” units—and how the move to liquid cooling, tighter layouts, and higher amp-hour cells impacts both opportunity and risk.

We explore the real jobs batteries do for the grid: shifting solar and wind, replacing peaker plants, stabilizing frequency, and powering microgrids. Then we zoom into the fast-growing edge case: AI-hungry data centers integrating batteries at the rack level for modularity and speed. That flexibility has a cost. Less free airspace and larger cells mean faster gas accumulation, higher heat flux into insulated enclosures, and a credible explosion hazard from a single failure. We walk through the failure timeline—monitoring anomalies, venting, immediate versus delayed ignition, sustained fire, and potential propagation—and identify practical interventions at each step.

Noah lays out the tradeoffs many teams avoid: accept that a damaged unit is a write-off, or try to save modules at all costs? Should we prefer a known flame over an uncertain blast by using intentional spark ignition? How should NFPA 855’s push toward gas-triggered mechanical ventilation and deflagration venting influence spacing, panel placement, and vent direction? We also dig into enclosure construction—non-combustible insulation, steel skins, coolant flammability—and how better insulation can safely cut spacing by slowing heat penetration and reducing internal temperature rise.

Looking forward, stacking feels inevitable. The smarter approach is to treat batteries not just as a cause but as a fuel, borrowing tested methods from high-rack storage: quantify heat release and radiant exposure, model gas evolution and overpressure, orient vents to manage flame jets, and define acceptable loss before design begins. If you care about real-world energy storage—utility sites, microgrids, or data centers—you’ll leave with a clearer framework to make informed, defensible choices.

If you would like to learn more about Noah and the Fire and Risk Alliance, you can find them online here: https://fireriskalliance.com/

Enjoy the conversation, then subscribe, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a review to help more engineers find the show.

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

This week, in the Fire Science Show, we host a roundtable discussion on complexities in fire safety science and engineering.

Most safety failures don’t come from a single mistake—they emerge when people, technology, and institutions misalign. In an ever-changing field in which complexities just go up, we open up a debate on how to cope with that so that the entire field goes in the right direction. For this podcast roundtable debate, I've invited Steve McGuirk, who represents Fire Sector Confederation, and Professor Brian Meacham from Crux, a lifelong contributor to understanding systems in fire safety. 

The conversation starts with Grenfell as a case study in systemic breakdown, then stretches into the “fire chain” of policy, design, construction, occupation, incidents, investigation, and remediation. Along the way, we confront the half-life of crises, the overload of regulations, and the real-world trade-offs that shape housing, affordability, and risk.

We push beyond “add another rule” and ask better questions: How do incentives drive design decisions? Where does culture—of fire services, engineers, and politics—help or hinder outcomes? What would it take for standards bodies, professional institutions, and regulators to speak with a more unified voice? We explore convergence research as a practical method to break silos, inviting small, diverse teams to co-create solutions instead of defending old paradigms. From single-stair mid-rise housing to lithium-ion hazards, we dig into how to balance life safety, property protection, and community needs without freezing progress.

Technology shows up as both a tool and a trap. AI and modelling can map complexity and test scenarios, but they cannot replace critical thinking or ethics. We share grounded advice for practitioners: define the problem before you simulate, involve the right stakeholders early, make risk choices explicit, and design for how people actually behave. Competence, mentoring, and integrity are not nice-to-haves; they’re the core of public safety.

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

The devastating 2018 Camp Fire in Paradise, California serves as a haunting reminder of how rapidly wildfires can overwhelm communities. We have not known anything like it - the flames raced through Paradise at four miles per hour, 30,000 residents had mere minutes to evacuate, and many couldn't escape in time. What happens when the fire goes worse than worst case scenario, but still people need to escape? How do we protect lives when escape routes are blocked by fire or gridlocked traffic?

Dr. Eric D. Link, NIST's researcher in the groundbreaking ESCAPE Project, takes us deep into these critical questions. The project's findings reveal how temporary refuge areas saved over 1,200 lives during the Camp Fire when people couldn't outrun the flames. These ad-hoc safe zones – parking lots, road intersections, and open spaces with reduced fuel loads – provided crucial protection when primary evacuation plans collapsed.

The conversation explores how communities can prepare for these worst-case scenarios by pre-identifying Temporary Fire Refuge Areas (TFRAs) throughout their neighbourhoods. Unlike traditional wildfire safety zones that require enormous clearance, TFRAs offer practical, achievable alternatives that acknowledge the realities of wildland-urban interface communities. The key insight? Even perfect evacuation plans can fail when fires move too quickly, so communities need backup options.

We also delve into the concept of "decision zones" for evacuation planning, the challenges of "no-notice fire events," and the potential for developing dedicated fire shelters that could protect large groups during extreme fire conditions. With climate change intensifying wildfire behavior and more communities at risk, these lessons from Paradise provide crucial guidance for protecting lives when evacuation isn't possible.

Read further on the ESCAPE project findings at the amazing NIST repository (in general, reading the NIST repository is a good life advice :)): https://www.nist.gov/publications/wui-fire-evacuation-and-sheltering-considerations-assessment-planning-and-execution-0

NIST dedicated webpage with more resources, especially for community managers: https://www.nist.gov/publications/wui-fire-evacuation-and-sheltering-considerations-assessment-planning-and-execution-0

Trigger boundaries podcast episode: https://www.firescienceshow.com/156-trigger-boundaries-with-harry-mitchell-and-nick-kalogeropoulos/

Cover image credit: On the morning of November 8, 2018, the Camp Fire erupted 90 miles (140 kilometers) north of Sacramento, California. By evening, the fast-moving fire had charred around 18,000 acres and remained zero percent contained, according to news reports. The Operational Land Imager on Landsat 8 acquired this image on November 8, 2018, around 10:45 a.m. local time (06:45 Universal Time). The natural-color image was created using bands 4-3-2, along with shortwave infrared light to highlight the active fire. Officials evacuated several towns, including Paradise. They also closed several major highways.
NASA, Joshua Stevens - https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/144225/camp-fire-rages-in-california 

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

Dear friends, I am building something new for you. Something that should be very useful, something that I wish I had when I started my journey as a fresh fire safety engineer. And I’ve reached a point where I’m comfortable sharing it is being built and that the first useful version will be available by the end of the month.

So what is this mysterious thing?

I’ve named it “The Book of Fire” (please let me keep the origin of the name story for another occasion 😊) and it will be an online collection of resources for fire safety engineers. It will be built as an online course, with different types of material spread over different “modules” and “lessons”. This approach allows me for flexible management of the content, and for you - it means easy access to any module at any time you want.

Oh, and did I mention the cost? Thanks to JVVA Fire and Risk cooperation, this resource will be freely available for anyone, as long as it is maintained.

In the podcast episode, you will hear the reasons behind building this resource, as well as some technical aspects of it. And most importantly, the dates. The open beta access is planned to open on November 27th, and the tentative launch date is December 20th. During the beta period, I hope to receive some critical feedback so that the final product is the best version of the course I can make. And hopefully, The Book of Fire will become a handy companion to many fellow fire engineers out there.

If you want to sign up for the beta launch, please use the form at https://thebookoffire.com

Fire Science Show podcast is produced in partnership with OFR Consultants.

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

I'm known for my rant about critical velocity concept in tunnel ventilation systems, and I tried to really control myself and not go into podcast with it :) But in recent weeks, when I was enjoying sake at IAFSS in Tsukuba two important things happened. We have received the PASCAL award from the Polish Ventilation Association for the best ventilation design in Poland - our S2 Warsaw Ring tunnel project. The second was the invitation from the Conference of European Directors of Roads to talk about my view on challenges in tunnel ventilation. So it seems our design in this space gets some appreciation, and people want to listen to this...

Here we go. In order to train for my talk in front of Road Administrators of Europe, please let me outline some challenges related to smoke control in tunnels. What are we designing for? How does air travel in the tunnel and what makes it move? What components do we need to consider, and how to turn it into a risk-based approach? And finally, what do we need to advance into the future?

I hope the episode is nice not just for tunnel engineers, but everyone who has to deal with ventilation or design fires, as it has some very fundamental concepts in it. I also promised some links, so make sure to check:
- The car park and tunnel podcast episode collection, where you can find episodes I've been mentioning in the show
- A study on airflows induced by vehicle movement in road tunnels by the analysis of bulk data from tunnel sensors - a grand study with my friends Aleksander & Gosia Król, which gives an explanation for many forces acting on the flow in the tunnel. The good news is that a much more advanced paper is now submitted and pending review. Fingers crossed!!!

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

Today we go deep into how statistical data about fires is gathered, processed, and used around the world, and what are the ideas on how to improve this in the future. My guests represent the EU FireStat Project - Dr Mohamad El Houssami from Effectis and Dr Martina Manes from the University of Liverpool.

EU FireStat is a groundbreaking initiative that aims to fill data gaps and foster cross-European collaborations in the field of fire safety. The conversation takes a deep dive into the necessity for comparable fire statistics across Europe, illustrating the challenges that come with harmonizing terminology and data collection methods. We bring to light how these discrepancies between countries can influence the way we interpret vital definitions, like fires,  fire deaths, or injuries. We also discuss the role of the quality assurance process in shaping the data and dissect the eight variables identified as a tier one priority in the EU FireStat Project survey.

If you would like to read about the EU FireStat Project, all the reports (including the final report) are available here.

If you would like to read the peer-reviewed version of their findings, please go for the papers:

• Closing Data Gaps and Paving the Way for Pan-European Fire Safety Efforts: Part I—Overview of Current Practices for Fire Statistics
• Closing Data Gaps and Paving the Way for Pan-European Fire Safety Efforts: Part II—Terminology of Fire Statistical Variables

And while we wait for the pan-European fire statistics database, you may want to look into statistics gathered by the CTIF Center for World Fire Statistics.

Fire Science Show is produced in partnership with OFR Consultants.

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

In today's episode, I have invited dr Eleni Asimakopoulou from the University of Central Lancashire to discuss her extensive expertise on fire behaviour of facades. In the talk, we will go through Elenis' experiments on ventilated facades (and clear out what they are and why we use them). We do discuss the complexities of testing facade systems. We traverse through the global testing landscape, comparing diverse methods ranging from the German DIN4102 to its American NFPA counterpart. We discuss the role of air entrainment related to test geometries, the implications of whether there's an opening, and the potential effects of a fire barrier in proximity to the fire load. 

Our discussion takes a heated turn as we broach large-scale fire testing and modelling. We go into how tiny details can dramatically impact a facade system's performance and whether we will be able to reliably capture that with large-scale tests, small tests or modelling. We'll also discuss the future - machine learning, CFD, and finite element analysis which are revolutionizing fire testing. Lastly, we delve into the newest research and developments in facades, discussing the advent of tools for material properties analysis, and more. 

Here is the link to the paper discussed in the episode: https://www.scopus.com/record/display.uri?eid=2-s2.0-85085977558

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

Balancing the cost and the potential to change a system in the future is a difficult act. Discover a new perspective on this aspect of fire safety systems with our guest, Jaime Cadena Gomez. We discuss the significance of longevity and sturdiness in these systems, bringing examples of technologies that have not withstood the test of time such as PFAS firefighting foams, and technologies that will rapidly enter our buildings such as Li-Ion storage for energy backups. Jaime offers intriguing insights into how engineers can future-proof designs without adding excessive burden to the design process, considering device lifecycles and their implications for a sustainable future.

In the talk, we break down the responsibilities and trade-offs in designing equipment that stands the test of time. We delve into the importance of the potential need for upgrades and modifications and evaluate that from the eyes of a fire safety engineer responsible for a strategy and a fire protection engineer responsible for choosing equipment.

We also take a deep dive into the intersection of compliance and innovation in fire prevention systems. We'll uncover the importance of creating a pathway for innovation within the frameworks of compliance—a conversation that promises to be both enlightening and engaging. Finally, reflect with us on the role of the safety engineer, the education they require, and the immense importance of understanding the technology they work with and its maintenance. 

The inspiration to do this talk came from the "Mars Habitats" talk, which you can re-listen here: https://www.firescienceshow.com/qa5-brainstorming-fire-safe-mars-habitats-with-ruben-van-coile-jaime-cadena-gomez-and-szymek-matkowski/

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

When I heard that two legends of firefighting training  Shan Raffel and CFBT Roy will be visiting my friend Szymon Kokot, I packed my stuff and went to meet them with a microphone and a ton of questions. What I received was a brilliant discussion on how firefighting instructors are trained - from the history of CFBT (Compartment Fire Behaviour Training) to modern approaches. Shan introduced his method for reading fire (BE SAHF - Building Environment Smoke Air-track Heat and Flame) and how it helps the decision-making process in the most stressful settings. Along the way, we discuss the critical soft character traits that make a fire instructor exceptional, and how the art of decision-making and critical thinking can be integrated into the complex realm of fire science.

As we wrap up, we emphasize the significant role of understanding fire behavior in handling emergency situations. We will also broach the topic of cold, gray smoke, a seemingly harmless phenomenon but one that poses a formidable danger. Learn why experienced instructors are key to imparting this knowledge and how Poland, under Szymon's leadership, has made significant strides in fire instruction.

Also, if you would like to read more, here is the most amazing collection of resources you can find online: https://eurofirefighter.com/downloads

Shan's book can be found at https://cfbt-int.com/manuals/ or at Amazon, or perhaps you may want to find the CFBT people in your country to make a worthy connection?! Through his website, you can also connect to organize instructor training in your country.

Cover picture credit: CFBT Intl https://cfbt-int.com/

Fire Science Show is sponsored by OFR Consultants, huge shoutout for their long-lasting support to our mission!

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

Have you ever wondered how the understanding of AI can revolutionize the field of civil engineering? Today I am discovering this together with our own AI trendsetter, MZ Nasser. His latest book "Machine Learning for Civil and Environmental Engineers: A Practical Approach to Data-Driven Analysis, Explainability, and Causality" is the focal point of our conversation, illuminating the significance of explainable AI and the concept of causality. 

Our discourse with MZ dives straight into the practical applications of AI, and how it already has been used with a high degree of success. We go deep into the case study of understanding concrete spalling, perhaps one of the most complicated phenomena in structural fire engineering. 

We also delve into the limitations of AI in engineering and fire safety, and how coding-free software and AI principles could potentially usher in a new era for civil engineers. We navigate the concept of causality and its application in diverse fields, from social sciences to fire statistics.

If you would like to learn more, MZ Naser runs his blog where you can find all of his work and a ton of bonus resources. Check it out here: https://www.mznaser.com/

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.