ExperiMENTAL Marketing | Playbooks to measure and scale Marketing ROI – Details, episodes & analysis

Pranav Piyush is the CEO of Paramark , where he's devoting the next 15 years of his life to solving Marketing Measurement.

In our conversation, he shares his journey from engineering to marketing at companies like Adobe, Dropbox, and Reforge emphasizing the importance of measurement and experimentation in marketing.

He also discusses the challenges faced by CMOs, the need for a culture of experimentation, and the significance of strategy in marketing efforts.

Takeaways

• Marketing measurement is dysfunctional and he saw a glaring gap when he was a Marketing leader
• CMOs face short tenures because of unrealistic expectations from the C-suite but also self inflicted
• A culture of experimentation is crucial for marketing success.
• Failure in experiments is common and should be embraced as a learning opportunity.
• Creative strategy is as important as tactical execution in marketing.
• The future of marketing lies in continuous adaptation and innovation.

In this episode, we cover:

00:00 Introduction to Pranav Piyush and Paramark

01:41 Pranav's Journey into Marketing

05:29 The Challenges of Marketing Measurement

08:07 Bridging the Gap: Art and Science in Marketing

11:44 Understanding CMO Challenges

16:09 Building a Culture of Experimentation

21:42 Strategy vs. Execution in Creative Marketing

25:06 The Importance of Roadmaps in Marketing

27:16 Innovative Experiences at Dropbox

29:46 Lessons from Failed Experiments

33:37 Finding Product-Market Fit

37:34 Building Relationships with Major Clients

42:09 Choosing the Right Marketing Vendor

47:14 Understanding Marketing Metrics

Listen to the ExperiMENTAL Marketing podcast on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts

New episodes every Thursday at 6 AM GMT+2.

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In this conversation, Adam Miller shares his extensive experience in user acquisition across various marketplaces, including Turo, Postmates, and Uber. We discuss the evolution of user acquisition strategies, the importance of creative processes, and the collaboration between marketing and product teams. Adam also highlights common mistakes founders make in user acquisition and his contrarian views on the topic. He emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to supply and demand in marketplaces and the challenges of attribution in user acquisition.

Takeaways

• User acquisition strategies have evolved significantly over the years, especially with the rise of mobile.
• In 2025, user acquisition will rely heavily on automated systems and algorithms.
• Creative processes should start with identifying unique value propositions (UVPs).
• Collaboration between marketing and product teams is crucial for effective user acquisition.
• Founders often make the mistake of relying too heavily on paid advertising too early.

In this episode, we cover:

00:00 Coming up

00:57 Adam's Journey

03:27 User Acquisition Strategies at Turo, Postmates, and Uber

09:16 Navigating User Acquisition During COVID-19

14:17 The Evolution of User Acquisition in 2025

18:00 Creative Strategies for Effective User Acquisition

19:52 Collaboration Between Marketing and Product Teams

25:35 Common Mistakes Founders Make in User Acquisition

28:29 Contrarian Views on Education and Career Paths

33:28 Future Trends in User Acquisition and Market Dynamics

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In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Nikhil Kant (Uber, FlixBus, Even Health) to break down why modern marketing has lost its magic and how over-relying on performance marketing is silently killing long-term brand value.

You’ll learn:
✔ Why performance marketing is losing its creative edge
✔ How brand creates the only sustainable moat in saturated markets
✔ Tactical frameworks: Get-To-By, Think-Feel-Do, and Hero-Hub-Hygiene
✔ Why startups confuse product-market fit with growth loops
✔ Lessons from political marketing and hyper-local segmentation
✔ How brands like Liquid Death, MoCabara, and Adidas play the long game

Nikhil shares real-world stories from startups, unicorns, and political campaigns to show how the best marketers blend emotional connection with business outcomes. If you’re building a consumer startup or running growth at a scaling company, this episode will change how you think about brand.

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Discovery vs. Optimization Marketing: Why Most Startups Get It Wrong | Libby Weissman (Caviar, DoorDash)

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Libby Weissman (Caviar, Square, DoorDash) to unpack why so many startups fail to tell the difference between discovery and optimization marketing, and what it costs them.

You’ll learn:
✔ How to tell if you're in discovery or optimization
✔ Why unrealistic CAC targets derail your growth
✔ How to use experiments to build marketing conviction
✔ What “price is too high” usually means
✔ How to hire the right marketer for your stage
✔ Real examples from healthtech, food, and services

Libby brings structured thinking and sharp insight for early-stage B2C founders navigating growth. If you’re building in a noisy space, this is your blueprint.

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Welcome to ExperiMENTAL, the podcast for B2C marketers, founders, and analysts who are done with surface-level advice and ready to make smarter, data-informed decisions.

Hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, former Head of Brand Data Science at Uber and creator of the ExperiMENTAL newsletter, this show is your go-to space for cutting through noise and building high-impact marketing strategies that actually work.

If you’ve ever wondered whether your best marketing move is to stop spending, or how to prove ROI beyond the usual metrics, you’re not alone. Sundar brings clarity, curiosity, and real experience to every episode, with honest conversations and practical frameworks from leaders at companies like Uber, Faire, and Google.

Expect sharp insights, thought-provoking questions, and strategies you can actually use.

🎙️ Ready to stop guessing and start experimenting?
Subscribe to ExperiMENTAL and get bi-weekly episodes that help you think critically, test boldly, and lead with confidence.

 📩 Join the newsletter: https://experimental.beehiiv.com

New episodes every second Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever you listen.

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Gen Z Marketing Strategy That Actually Converts

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar sits down with Claudia from Howbout, the fast-growing social calendar app that's cracked the Gen Z code. With a mix of irreverent humor and sharp strategy, Claudia reveals how Howbout builds product and marketing with Gen Z in mind, why authenticity trumps polish, and why TikTok is more than just a channel. It’s a feedback loop. They unpack how Gen Z thinks, what makes them convert, and why influencer marketing might not be the golden ticket people think it is.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Gen Z users are digital natives who expect authenticity, not polish
• Traditional ad tactics like logos and slogans don’t resonate
• Message testing on TikTok helped validate product features before launch
• Shares and comment tags are leading indicators of campaign success
• Gen Z can detect ads instantly and tune them out
• Brands must act like peers, not authorities
• Being transparent about the team behind a product builds trust
• Feature adoption improves when messaging reflects user language
• Gen Z leaves apps fast if the product doesn’t fit their social behavior
• Virality comes from resonance, not production value

BEST MOMENTS

00:00:02. “Friends can be themselves, but they're choosing not to. They're choosing to be something different.”
00:00:16. “From what we've seen of Gen Z, they will leave your app as quickly as they join.”
00:01:25. “You know, one of the biggest reasons of your success is your ability to build product and and build marketing to generation Z.”
00:03:11. “They kind of just want to figure out the story themselves, and they want to believe it.”
00:05:05. “We're a social calendar app that makes it easier for you to keep up with your friends.”
00:07:14. “It got like 14 million views, like hundreds of thousands of comments of people tagging their friends.”
00:08:48. “We posted kind of a few videos with different features and trying to kind of see if anything resonated.”
00:14:33. “The most interesting one is kind of on our organic socials.”
00:26:11. “If I feel that way, Gen Z feels like that times a million.”
00:30:25. “I would have a whole pre campaign set up where we're kind of teeing up something really ridiculous for our followers.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

What if your biggest growth unlock wasn’t more speed, but better structure?

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Mattia Santin, SVP of Brand, Growth & Operations at ContentSquare, former CMO at Hotjar, and former marketing leader at Uber. They dive deep into the B2B vs. B2C debate, why product marketing is the missing engine in many orgs, and what Mattia learned running $300M+ in global media. From in-housing entire teams to turning off ad spend for bold tests, this episode offers hard-won insights for every marketing leader who wants to scale without burning out.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Product marketing should be a two-way street, not a ticketing system
• B2B and B2C are more alike than people think, speed is the main difference
• The structure of your marketing team affects everything: agility, trust, impact
• “Zigzagging your way to growth” creates chaos and burnout
• Build the engine before you slam the gas pedal
• Foundations matter more than speed; solid data systems are non-negotiable
• Product marketing teams need clarity, resilience, and executive support
• Testing assumptions (even expensive ones) leads to clarity and efficiency
• Leadership buy-in is essential for bold experiments
• Attribution isn’t just a metric problem, it’s a culture problem

BEST MOMENTS

00:03:02. “It’s been fascinating to observe... a lot more similarities than people think.”
00:05:06. “I knew I wasn’t going to be at companies for 18 years... that wasn’t my path.”
00:08:00. “Hotjar had an amazing brand, but competition was rising. It was time to pivot.”
00:10:13. “I've worked in squad setups and functional models... and I prefer functional.”
00:16:02. “You don’t want a car zigzagging its way through strategy.”
00:23:36. “Product marketing teams will suffer without clarity and structure.”
00:37:45. “We turned off all display spend for a week… and nothing happened.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

How do you build a data team that actually drives business outcomes? 

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Sebastian Hewing, Data & AI Advisor to C-Level leaders in VC and PE-backed companies, and ex-Rocket Internet, to uncover what most companies get wrong about building and scaling data teams. From startup chaos to structured experimentation, Sebastian shares his three-step consulting framework, lessons from over 40 implementations, and what it really takes to empower “super users” and stop being a dashboard factory. If you’re a data leader, growth marketer, or founder tired of surface-level advice, this episode is your blueprint.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Most companies suffer from solution-first thinking instead of problem-first frameworks
• Data teams need to be business-driven, not just tech-stacked
• Hiring analytics engineers early enables speed, clarity, and better decisions
• “Super users” are the missing link between tech and business
• Sebastian uses a 3-step productized consulting approach: Discover, Build, Empower
• Complexity isn’t just technical, it’s human, organizational, and strategic
• AI can supercharge teams, but only when tied to real pain points
• Founders, CMOs, and CTOs feel different “data pains” at different company stages
• Scaling data teams requires repeatable playbooks, not custom chaos
• The Data Collective was built to fix the mentorship gap and noise in data leadership

BEST MOMENTS

00:03:23. “CTOs have to ship product, but end up fixing broken spaghetti queries.”
00:05:29. “The higher the marketing budget, the more you can gain with proper data stuff.”
00:08:25. “Step three is where I empower the organization to use that data foundation.”
00:13:02. “The super user is a business stakeholder who can self-serve 80% of the time.”
00:16:07. “They don’t have any skin in the game. The marketing manager does.”
00:20:12. “People say this analytics engineer doesn’t exist, but I’ve never had an issue finding one.”
00:26:48. “My vision is a context-aware analytics agent that knows your goals and actions.”
00:40:17. “The wrong way is: let me put AI into everything. The right way is: pick one real problem.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

🎯 Is your marketing KPI lying to you?

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Russell Tischler, VP of Marketing at Fundrise, to dismantle the myth of “good enough” metrics. From building predictive models that forecast investor behavior to questioning the ROI of lift tests, Russell shares hard-earned lessons from his time at Uber and Fundrise.

If you're a B2C marketer, data scientist, or growth leader wondering how to prioritize the right metrics without wasting time or budget, this episode will completely reframe your thinking.

Get ready for deep insight, no fluff, and some well-earned hot takes.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
• Shallow KPIs are often misleading and can hold back meaningful growth
• Fundrise built a day-90 model to better predict long-term investor value
• The 90-day predictive model offered better accuracy than day-1 projections
• High-capacity investors often start small, making early conversion data deceptive
• Fundrise balances low-dollar, high-volume vs. high-dollar, low-volume acquisition channels
• Direct mail is unexpectedly powerful for trust and high-value targeting
• First-touch attribution is underrated, especially for category-creating businesses
• Startups should optimize for speed of learning, not perfect measurement
• Most lift tests aren’t worth running if the gain is under 10%
• The best growth moves feel obvious, no stats needed to prove it

BEST MOMENTS

00:01:59. “What I do is use too shallow of a metric, and I’ve tried to help move us further into the customer journey.”
00:03:07. “How do we differentiate when we’re acquiring one of the 20% that's super valuable versus someone who churns quickly?”
00:04:43. “You can see where only looking at somebody's conversion behavior can be misguided.”
00:06:05. “The best growth marketers deeply understand the business and analytics, not just KPIs.”
00:09:02. “We started with wanting a 12-month payback period... the cost per dollar fundraising target.”
00:16:18. “We've been able to be pretty accurate by combining the human element with the model approach.”
00:26:42. “Direct mail has been awesome for large investors, really credentializing.”
00:38:06. “Almost any time we've done something really successful, it’s just obvious.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Assumption Audit: The Step Most Marketers Skip

Most marketing failures don’t stem from bad creative, poor media buys, or weak strategy. They start earlier, at the assumption level. In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar sits down with Oliver Raskin, Head of Research at Miro and former insights lead at Meta and Uber, to break down why assumptions kill great ideas and how marketers can audit them before launching campaigns. They explore the difference between optimism and magical thinking, why misalignment festers in kickoff meetings, and how to rewire processes to avoid costly mistakes. If you’ve ever wondered why “obvious” campaigns flop, this episode is a must-listen.

Key Takeaways
• Research is part inspo, part reality check, part insurance policy
• Most marketing starts by solutioning instead of defining the real problem
• Assumptions around audience, channels, and timing go unchecked
• Kickoffs are the hidden leverage point in campaign success
• "Pay now or pay later" is the cost of skipping alignment
• Research isn’t slow, bad process is
• Clarity of goal always surfaces hidden disagreements
• Synthetic audiences and qualitative at scale are changing research
• Surveys are dying, and that’s a good thing
• Messaging must map clearly from assertion to belief

Best Moments
00:02:20. “This role is part inspo, part reality check, and part like insurance policy.”
00:04:52. “Each piece that you’ve made a wrong assumption on chips away at your likelihood of being successful.”
00:07:18. “These are people problems, not data problems.”
00:09:10. “You relitigate these decisions over and over again because they probably needed to have been litigated properly once.”
00:11:12. “We’re already solutioning at this point.”
00:17:05. “Be explicit about all the things that need to be true in order for that outcome to be reached.”
00:28:47. “I’ll put you on the right trail. You’ll have to do a lot of iteration to get up the mountain, but at least you’re climbing the right mountain.”
00:41:20. “It’s the why, what, and how of your pyramid.”
00:54:55. “Take the time to make your assumptions explicit. It might feel uncomfortable, but it’s worth it.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com