Influencers can’t get enough of Zone 2 low-intensity training. So why did Martin Gibala publish a research paper challenging Zone 2 for the general public? In this episode, Stuart Phillips leads Marty through a critical examination of Zone 2.
Marty suggests that very little scientific research exists to support Zone 2 training intensity for most people—either as an effective stimulus for cardiorespiratory fitness or mitochondrial capacity. In fact, if you do between three and six hours of cardio a week, Marty believes that Zone 2 isn’t hard enough for you to efficiently accrue training benefits. In other words, if you’re an amateur athlete subscribing to the much-vaunted rule that 80% of your cardio should be in Zone 2, you’re not as fit as you otherwise could be.
So what is Zone 2 training? And is Zone 2 causing many people to exercise inefficiently, leaving them less healthy than they otherwise might be? What should people be doing INSTEAD of Zone 2? It’s all here, in the latest episode of Exercise Science!
Marty and Brendon Gurd’s critical examination of Zone 2: Much Ado About Zone 2: A Narrative Review Assessing the Efficacy of Zone 2 Training for Improving Mitochondrial Capacity and Cardiorespiratory Fitness in the General Population
Sperlich paper referenced in this episode: Zone 2 Intensity: A Critical Comparison of Individual Variability in Different Submaximal Exercise Intensity Boundaries
Marty was senior author on this Sports Medicine paper on exercise intensity in high-intensity activity, which features the intensity diagram Marty mentions
Find Martin Gibala on Instagram, which he just joined, @gibalamj
Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store.
DISCUSSION POINTS
00:00 Exercise fads
00:34 Intros
02:30 What Zone 2 is
04:21 No uniform definition
06:02 Lactate threshold
08:10 Zone 2 marker variability
09:54 Ventilatory threshold
11:57 Conflation with moderate
12:58 Improving exercise prescriptions
14:40 Health v. performance
16:04 Moderate intensity is better
16:58 80/20 split
18:45 Better alternatives
19:47 Zone 2 origins
20:39 Wearable intensities
22:09 Threshold testing options
23:14 Training for health
24:21 Take-home message
26:05 Vigorous is better
26:44 Listener question
DISCLAIMER
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Strength Training for Everybody!
Season 1 · Episode 1
Tuesday, May 26, 2026 • Duration 37:45
Our co-host Stuart Phillips was the senior author on the ACSM’s gold-standard strength training position statement, a.k.a. “the most comprehensive evidence-based guidance to date on how resistance training supports muscle strength, muscle size (hypertrophy), power, and physical performance across adulthood.”
In the premiere episode of Exercise Science, co-host Martin Gibala takes Stu through the American College of Sports Medicine update, the first position statement in 17 years.
Parsing the science, together, Stu and Marty break down why strength is the ultimate compound interest investment for your health span. How important is strength training? Why should you consider strength training 2x per week to be just as important as the other main exercise-related health guideline, 150 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise per week?
Plus: How much strength training is enough? What’s the minimum that you should do? What changed during the 17 years between position stands? And how did a 1940s bodybuilding doctor rehabbing soldiers pave the way for modern strength training?Forget the oiled-up pumping-iron musclehead stereotype. In 2026, strength training is officially for EVERYONE. And if you’re going to listen to just one podcast about the new guidelines — make it this episode of Exercise Science!
Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on and . Follow him on to make him feel nice!
The Exercise Science Podcast Coming Spring 2026
Friday, March 13, 2026 • Duration 02:52
Kinesiology professor Martin Gibala is the worldwide expert on time-efficient cardio. Kinesiology professor Stuart Phillips is the global expert on strength, muscle development and protein. In Exercise Science, these two friends and colleagues translate the world of exercise science for the rest of us — separating the hype from the hard evidence.
Brad Schoenfeld's Top 5 Strength Myths BUSTED!
Season 1 · Episode 3
Tuesday, June 9, 2026 • Duration 39:35
Think you know how to build muscle? In our third episode, Martin Gibala does some mythbusting with two of the world’s most prominent experts in the science of strength development, Stuart Phillips and special guest Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, a professor of exercise science at Lehman College in the Bronx, New York.
In addition to being a former bodybuilder and joining Stu on the ACSM strength position statement, Schoenfeld literally wrote the textbook on strength training. Together, Phillips and Schoenfeld use science and savvy to correct some of the resistance world’s most pervasive myths, including:
Light loads don't increase muscle size
You have to train to absolute failure to maximize muscular adaptations
Short rest periods are best for hypertrophy
Cardio kills gains
Narrow post-exercise anabolic window of opportunity
Join us to discuss these myths and more in the latest episode of Exercise Science!
Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store.
LINKS
Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. . . . On X you can find us .
VO₂max: The Fifth Vital Sign
Season 1 · Episode 4
Tuesday, June 16, 2026 • Duration 35:15
VO₂max is the most important metric of your overall cardiorespiratory fitness. It’s a measure of the maximal ability of your body to take in and use oxygen. But what does the number actually mean for your health and longevity? Why is it important to know your VO₂max? What’s the most effective way to improve your VO₂max, whether you’re an athlete or just someone seeking to improve your health? And what does this all have to do with beer-league hockey, and everybody’s favourite Sudbury Blueberry Bulldog, Shoresy?
In this episode, Stuart Phillips asks Martin Gibala to break down VO₂max in plain English: what it is, why it matters, and how it shapes everything from your risk of dying to how fast you can run a 10K. And just to get the kin grad students among us even more excited, this episode namedrops the Hickson Protocol, plus legends of kinesiology like Robert Ross, Ulrik Wisløff and Carsten Lundby. Pitter patter, let’s get at ‘er!
Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and . Follow him on to make him feel nice!
Muscle Mass & Weight Loss Drugs: Overblown Fears or Justified Concerns?
Episode 5
Tuesday, June 23, 2026 • Duration 55:17
Semaglutide, sold as Ozempic and Wegovy, and tirzepatide, sold as Zepbound and Mounjaro, are new weight loss drugs that actually work, helping millions around the world to feel better and become healthier. But some people are fearful of side effects, such as loss of muscle mass. Are their fears warranted?
To find out, Marty and Stu talk to the two University of Kansas weight-loss scientists, Renee Rogers and ACSM president-elect John Jakicic, who are leading a clinical trial investigating the way aerobic and resistance training can affect the muscle mass of people who are on GLP-1s, or the other new weight loss drugs.
In this episode:
—how GLP-1s affect muscle mass
—the difference between lean and muscle mass
—the research that Jakicic and Rogers are doing into GLP-1s
—guidance on whether people should be concerned about GLP-1s and muscle mass
—how to minimize muscle loss while on GLP-1s
Plus, whether the new weight loss drugs affect men and women differently.
Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store.
Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com.
Exercise Snacks & VILPA: The Ultimate Explainer
Episode 8
Tuesday, July 14, 2026 • Duration 27:26
A little morsel of an episode on exercise snacks and Vigorous Intermittent Lifestyle Physical Activity, known as VILPA. Along with a handful of scientists around the world, Marty is leading research into the health benefits of short, vigorous bouts of exercise that are scattered through the day.
One key finding is that just four minutes of vigorous physical activity can decrease risk of all-cause mortality by 25%.
So in our eighth episode, Stu leads Marty through a discussion of the research into the benefits of short, vigorous bouts of physical activity. The guys discuss:
—What’s the difference between exercise snacks and VILPA?
—What health benefits are provided by short, vigorous bursts of exercise scattered throughout the day?
—What are some examples of great exercise snacks that anyone can do?
—What’s the shortest amount of exercise that will make a difference to one’s health?
Finally, we explore the idea that exercise snacks and VILPA may be able to liberate physical activity from the confines of planned gym visits that require special clothing and fancy equipment.
Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to:
Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount on the purchased subscription. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/
Mythbusting the Most-Hyped Peptides
Tuesday, July 7, 2026 • Duration 42:50
Peptides like BPC-157, TB-500, CJC-1295 and retatrutide are among the hottest trends for optimizers, gym bros, looksmaxxers and the longevity crowd. But is it wise to inject bioactive molecules into the bloodstream that haven’t passed the drug approval process?
In this episode, Marty and Stu welcome the Harvard- and Stanford-educated Leigh Baxt, who mythbusts about peptides and other panaceas on Instagram @sciencemomscicomm.
Baxt is a translational scientist who specializes in drug development. She points out the many problems with injecting peptides into the body, including the major one that many of these peptides are activating biological pathways that cancer cells love.
In this episode we discuss the following questions:
What are peptides?
Are peptides safe?
Quick guide to peptides like BPC-157, TB-500, CJC-1295 and retatrutide
What do peptides do?
What is a wolverine stack?
Finally, we also walk through the drug-approval process that protects human beings from predatory marketing, and say what Marty, Stu and Leigh think is so wrong about promoting peptides to young people.
What scientific evidence supports peptide use? Find the answer in our latest episode:
Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to:
Thanks also to our sponsor Biafit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount on the purchased subscription. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here:
What to Do Instead of Zone 2 | Mike Joyner, Mayo Clinic
Episode 1
Tuesday, June 30, 2026 • Duration 48:04
If you’re a serious recreational athlete but you have a job and a life, and only five hours a week to train — what should you be doing? This week, Stu and Marty provide the answer with the help of one of the world’s foremost experts on aerobic conditioning and the limits of human performance, Dr. Michael Joyner of the Mayo Clinic.
Dr. Joyner is a legend of the exercise science field and an elite runner himself, who back in 1991 conducted the first analysis establishing the physiologic possibility of a sub-two-hour marathon. Since our conversation with Joyner happened to fall just days after Sabastian Sawe achieved the first official sub-2:00 marathon times earlier this spring, the conversation begins with a discussion of Joyner’s 1991 analysis.
Then Marty and Stu challenge Joyner to get specific about what amateur athletes should be doing, if they want to achieve the best possible aerobic fitness for health. How much vigorous training should we all be doing, relative to moderate- and low-intensity training? Plus a listener question asking how to know when you’re training too much.
Have a listener question? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com
Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store.
How Much Protein Do You Need? | Stuart Phillips, McMaster University
Episode 9
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 46:48
It’s no longer just the longevity bros and fitness fiends obsessing over their protein intake. So what does the science actually say about protein consumption? How much do you need, and what’s the best way to get it?
In today’s episode, Marty takes our own in-house world-renowned protein expert Stuart Phillips through the math behind the macros.
In this episode Stu and Marty discuss:
Stu says why the old guideline of 0.8 g/kg body weight wasn’t enough
Does the benefit of protein hit a hard plateau at 1.6 g per kg per day?
How much protein do you need if you want to stay strong as you get older?
How much protein do you need if you want to lose weight but hold on to muscle?
Our sponsor Biafit is your all-in-one fitness platform. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store: https://getbiafit.com/
Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com.
Among the four students on the position stand, Stu said Brad Currier brought the evidence together, did the lion’s share of the writing and herded the cats
All about Ken Cooper, a seminal expert on aerobic fitness who came to understand the importance of strength training
Honoring the legacy of Steve N. Blair, a giant in the field of exercise epidemiology
Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau in Toronto.
DISCUSSION POINTS
00:00 Marty teases Stu
01:20 Episode outline
02:34 What’s a position stand?
03:36 What is the ACSM?
03:52 Building the team
05:00 What’s new in 2026
06:20 Levels of scientific papers
07:10 2026 v. 2009
08:12 Recommendations
09:30 Effort v. failure
10:38 Volume of training
12:30 Home-based options
14:06 Advice for newbies
15:13 Strength explained
18:57 Power explained
19:37 Why now?
22:17 Weight training for women
23:03 Capt. Thomas L. Delorme
25:36 Circus strongmen
26:30 Outdated philosophies
28:01 Barriers to entry
29:33 No pain, no gain is dead
31:45 Safety
33:30 Where to start
35:00 Takeaways
35:50 Listener question
36:50 Outro
DISCLAIMER
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice!
Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!
Whoa Brad Schoenfeld is HUGE on Instagram! One of the best feeds out there for the up-to-the-minute science on strength training. Plus here’s his lab at Lehman College.
Divergent strength gains but similar hypertrophy after low-load and high-load resistance exercise training in trained individuals: many roads lead to Rome
Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency.
DISCUSSION POINTS
00:00 Strongest exercise scientist?
02:13 Schoenfeld intro
03:47 Myth 1: Must lift heavy
06:25 Myth 2: Must train to failure
10:52 Myth 3: Short rest periods
17:26 Myth 4: Anabolic window
26:33 Myth 5: Cardio kills gains
36:54 LQ: Losing gains
DISCLAIMER
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
The science of strength and fitness is continually evolving. While we strive to provide accurate, evidence-based information, we make no representations or warranties regarding the completeness, accuracy, or timeliness of the information discussed.
Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency.
A Case for Fitness as a Clinical Vital Sign: The academic paper Marty references, that argues that MDs should assess VO₂max during each patient visit.
The Hickson protocol is described here, featuring six sessions per week, including three sessions of continuous vigorous in which the athletes ran as far as they could in 40 minutes, interspersed with three interval training bouts per week. The interval training amounted to six sessions of five-minute-long intervals during which the athletes tried to achieve VO₂max in each interval.
Wisløff 2001 out of Norwegian University of Science and Technology with elite male junior soccer players, 2x a week for eight weeks boosted VO₂max by 11%.
Wisløff 2008 with sedentary middle-aged men and women with metabolic syndrome, 3x a week for 16 weeks, improved VO₂max by 35%, more than twice as much as a control that performed continuous moderate exercise.
Martin Gibala contributed to Wisløff’s 2013 paper, showing most of the benefits from an interval workout come from the first sprint.
DISCUSSION POINTS
00:00 Cardio v. Strength
02:08 VO₂max explained
06:08 Heart’s role
08:41 Clinical vital sign
10:36 Benefits of boosting VO₂max
12:11 Assessing VO₂max
13:51 Ulrik Wisløff
15:15 Beer league hockey
17:07 VO₂max ranges
20:59 More boosting benefits
24:16 VO₂max trainability
27:00 Highest recorded values
29:30 How to improve VO₂max
31:27 Hickson protocol
33:38 Fastest way to boost
DISCLAIMER
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com.
EPISODE LINKS
Great explainer video on exercise snacking featuring Martin Gibala
Marty and Jon Little Diabetologia study: Bodyweight exercise snacks totalling 4 min of vigorous activity per day led to small, yet statistically significant improvements.
Once and thrice weekly interval training in adults with central obesity: a randomized controlled trial: Gibala 2026
The Stamatakis study that Marty co-authored: The sample median VILPA duration of 4.4 min per day was associated with a 26%–30% reduction in all-cause and cancer mortality risk.
Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency.
DISCUSSION POINTS
00:00 Introduction
01:04 Episode outline
02:47 What are exercise snacks?
03:30 VILPA explained
05:45 Emerging research
07:55 VILPA benefits
10:10 Bus drivers
12:47 Snack physiology
13:50 Future research
15:51 Diabetologia study
16:39 Guidelines
18:36 Vigorous explained
19:15 Liberating exercise
21:24 Just four minutes!
22:56 Snack suggestions
24:05 Listener question
DISCLAIMER
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!
Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!
Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency.
DISCUSSION POINTS
00:00 Cold open
01:02 Introducing Leigh Baxt
04:54 What are peptides?
07:25 Antivaxxers
09:24 BPC-157
11:05 TB-500
12:20 Wolverine stacking
13:10 CJC-1295
13:55 Retatrutide
16:28 Drug approval process
18:08 Peptides & cancer
20:12 Most drugs fail
22:03 Are peptides safe
23:52 Peptides & patents
26:28 Peptide categories
27:35 What’s wrong with wolverine stacks
29:54 Drug interactions
31:53 Why are peptides so hot?
34:27 Predatory marketing
37:21 Peptide predictions
DISCLAIMER
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
Leigh Baxt does not represent her employer on this platform and all views expressed are her own.
Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X.
Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!
Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency.
Mike Joyner’s 1991 paper that is a staple in Marty’s Integrative Physiology class: Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors. PubMed. Full PDF.
Dr. Michael Joyner’s website — been awhile since he updated it but fascinating nonetheless
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
Stu calls this the “Tom Longland” paper in the episode, from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: Higher compared with lower dietary protein during an energy deficit
Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency.
DISCUSSION POINTS
00:00 Cold open
03:45 What is protein?
05:39 How much protein should I eat?
08:59 Kidneys
10:56 Where did 0.8 come from?
14:54 How much protein is too much?
18:41 Protein for older people
21:57 Protein timing
23:28 Post-workout protein intake
24:45 Weight loss and protein
27:39 GLP-1s and protein
30:29 GLP-1 protein recommendation
31:13 Plant vs. animal protein
33:58 Leucine
35:13 Takeaways
40:40 Future research
44:37 Listener question: Avoiding protein bloat
DISCLAIMER
The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
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