Edge of the Couch – Details, episodes & analysis

In this special episode, Bhupie Dulay and Abby Chow come on the podcast to talk about how we can rather than rely on the reductionist approach to working with clients with marginalized identities, radically reimagine what relationality looks like in relationships inside and outside the therapy room. We talk about what it means to practice hope, how our work is essentially about love, and the immense responsibility and power we have as therapists.

To learn more about their upcoming summit, Leaning into Liberatory Practice: Bringing Love + Relationality Back Into Therapy, visit www.reflectingonjustice.com/summit.

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

In this episode, we talk about the roller coaster of emotions that come with getting "dumped" by clients. We discuss the different ways clients can terminate therapy, how each one hits us differently, and the common mistakes we make that might lead to their departure. We talk about mistakes that we make that have lead to clients terminating. We also explore whether or not it is wise to chase down a client after they've left, why the urge to email them can be so strong, and why, more often than not, it's best to let them go. Have you ever been dumped by a client?

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

What do you do when a client describes a traumatic experience, but then proceeds to shrug it off? In this episode, we explore what might be going on when clients dismiss what we gather are traumatic experiences. We discuss possible reasons behind this phenomenon, including denial, dissociation, or simply seeing it as common and therefore, normal and not worth discussing. We use examples like Alec Baldwin's 2007 voicemail to his daughter and an anecdote about Gabor Mate. This conversation mostly focuses on developmental or relational trauma, and so, there are a few points where we have trouble finding the words to talk about it! These experiences can be so beyond language. Join us as we wade into the complexities of working with trauma when the client isn't quite naming it as trauma.

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

In this special episode, Jordan interviews her co-host Alison. We talk about how she shows up in therapy, what she has learned from her clients, and the powerful metaphors she uses regularly and other Alison-isms. 

We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected] to tell us what you think, ask a question or let us know what type of episode you'd love to hear.  You can even send us a voice note for us to play in a future episode. 

You can support us by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, sharing the show with a friend, or supporting us on Patreon at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Finding yourself attracted to a client is a thing that happens! Even talking about it in hypotheticals is taboo. If you can’t acknowledge what is happening, even to yourself, it will absolutely impact the work and you are so much more likely to do harm. How do you know you are attracted to a client?

In this episode, Jordan and Alison break down this taboo and talk about how they navigate this delicate dynamic.

We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected] to tell us what you think, ask a question or let us know what type of episode you'd love to hear.  You can even send us a voice note for us to play in a future episode. 

You can support us by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, sharing the show with a friend, or supporting us on Patreon at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Whether you speak back or just say it to yourself, sometimes you will disagree with your school. Sometimes you will disagree with your supervisor. Even though you are learning new concepts and skills, you come into the work with life experiences and values. How do you hold onto yourself through the process of learning? 

In this episode, Alison and Jordan delve into the biases and limitations of our training. We talk about how you might respond when one of your values contradicts with something that is said or asked of you in your training process. Let us know what you think!

We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected] to tell us what you think, ask a question or let us know what type of episode you'd love to hear.  You can even send us a voice note for us to play in a future episode. 

You can support us by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, sharing the show with a friend, or supporting us on Patreon at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

In this episode, Jordan and Alison explore what our training teaches us about how to respond when a client expresses suicidal intent, how problematic our training can be, and the understandable apprehension that exists in new therapists (maybe all therapists?) when tasked with holding space for conversations about suicide. 

We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected] to tell us what you think, ask a question or let us know what type of episode you'd love to hear.  You can even send us a voice note for us to play in a future episode. 

You can support us by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, sharing the show with a friend, or supporting us on Patreon.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Alison and Jordan discuss when therapists have friendship-y feelings about a client. What do you do when a client says that they want to be friends, that you are friends, or that you are their best friend?

We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected] to tell us what you think, ask a question or let us know what type of episode you'd love to hear.  You can even send us a voice note for us to play in a future episode. 

You can support us by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, sharing the show with a friend, or supporting us on Patreon.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

In an interview, Jordan talks with Mimi Cole, student therapist and educator and writer on OCD and eating disorders, about her experience in school and online with self-disclosure, and the implications for her future work with clients. 

We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected] to tell us what you think, ask a question or let us know what type of episode you'd love to hear.  You can even send us a voice note for us to play in a future episode. 

You can support us by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, sharing the show with a friend, or supporting us on Patreon.

You can find our guest Mimi Cole on Instagram @the.lovelybecoming or at her website www.mimi-cole.com

Mimi Cole cites her learning from:

On the recovered clinician: Carolyn Costin https://www.carolyn-costin.com/recovered-eating-disorderprofession

On being put on a pedestal: Dr. Maria Paredes https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/maria-paredes-greensboro-nc/297520

On being human first, therapist second: Lisa Olivera https://www.instagram.com/_lisaolivera/?hl=en

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

In this episode, Jordan and Alison explore the intimacy that can deepen when we, therapists, share tears with our clients, crying with or for them during session. There’s an exploration about why our field teaches us to swallow our tears and the ways in which Alison and Jordan have worked to reclaim the connection of crying.

The episode switches gears to then talk about the times in which Jordan and Alison have found themselves laughing during sessions! There’s silliness, humour, and authenticity in the conversation, and once again, permission to show up wholly.

Both hosts share personal stories of crying and laughing during sessions, sometimes at inopportune times. It’s not an episode to miss.

We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected] to tell us what you think, ask a question or let us know what type of episode you'd love to hear.  You can even send us a voice note for us to play in a future episode. 

You can support us by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, sharing the show with a friend, or supporting us on Patreon.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram

Leading Edge Seminars is bringing their sought-after EMDR training to Toronto and Halifax. This isn’t just any EMDR training—it's developed and taught by Roy Kiessling, the creator of a new streamlined version of EMDR.

Use code EDGE100 at checkout to receive $100 off. Head to LeadingEdgeSeminars.org to grab your spot today.

Toronto: August 11-15, 2025
Halifax: July 21 – 25, 2025

Join us on Patreon for bonus content at www.patreon.com/edgeofthecouch or share your thoughts and questions via DM on Instagram @edgeofthecouchpod, email at [email protected], or voice note at speakpipe.com/edgeofthecouch.

We have partnered with Janeapp, an all-in-one practice management software. You can learn more at Jane.app/mentalhealth. Or, if you are ready to get started, mention Edge of the Couch in the note during sign up.

Alison McCleary
www.alpenglowcounselling.com
@alpenglow_counselling on Instagram

Jordan Pickell
www.jordanpickellcounselling.ca
@jordanpickellcounselling on Instagram

Edge of the Couch
www.edgeofthecouch.com
@edgeofthecouchpod on Instagram