Explore every episode of the podcast Beauty and the Biz
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| From "Not Wanted" to World-Renowned — with Ashkan Ghavami, MD (Ep. 335) | 07 Nov 2025 | 00:56:46 | |
📅 Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Ashkan Ghavami, MD, shares his journey from not being wanted in Beverly Hills, to becoming a world-renowned cosmetic surgeon.Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits. From "Not Wanted" to World-RenownedIndeed, "From 'Not Wanted' to World-Renowned: Dr. Ghavami" tells the story of how one surgeon rose from rejection to success. Specifically, when Dr. Ashkan Ghavami arrived in Beverly Hills, no one wanted him there. Afterward, he built a trusted name in aesthetics and gained worldwide recognition. Now, he's known for his celebrity patients, advanced techniques, and leadership in the field. Specifically in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Ghavami shares how he built his reputation and business:
In short, this discussion reveals what it takes to build and maintain a premium brand in today's marketplace. Ultimately, being a great surgeon is one thing. However, building a great business is another.
Shockingly, one strategic hour can save months of trial and error. Therefore, book a Strategy Review Zoom call to identify missed opportunities. Then, map the fastest route to more bookings, higher revenue, and smoother operations. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA Practice Growth Resources:
⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drashkanghavami #ashkanghavamimd #successfulaestheticpractice #cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons | |||
| Leaving Employment for Autonomy — with Tania Hassanzadeh, MD (Ep. 334) | 31 Oct 2025 | 00:51:55 | |
📅 Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Tania Hassanzadeh, MD, discusses her journey on leaving employment for autonomy in building her Beverly Hills, California practice.Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits. Leaving Employment for AutonomyHassanzadeh's leap from employee to Beverly Hills practice owner. Obviously, most surgeons spend years working for others before going solo. However, Dr. Tania Hassanzadeh, a Beverly Hills facial plastic surgeon, made that leap in just one year. Interestingly, after her fellowship in Boston under a top surgeon, she joined a thriving Beverly Hills practice. Soon, she realized she wanted full autonomy. Therefore, owning her patient photos, shaping her marketing, and building her brand mattered more than job security. Specifically, in this week's episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Hassanzadeh shares how she took control of her career. Moreover, she reveals what it takes to open a solo practice in one of the most competitive cities in the world. To summarize, in this episode, you'll learn:
Ultimately, Dr. Hassanzadeh's story is an honest look at independence, ambition, and risk. Therefore, listen to "Beauty and the Biz" for powerful insights on building a successful practice from scratch.
Indeed, think your practice is running at full potential? Actually, the data might surprise you. In short, take two minutes to get your Practice Growth Score and see where you're gaining — and where you're losing profits. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA Practice Growth Resources:
⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Hassanzadeh's website #beverlyhillsfacialplasticsurgeon #drhassanzadeh #drtaniahassanzadeh #taniahassanzadehmd #cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons | |||
| Unique Practice Model — with Rod J. Rohrich, MD (Ep. 326) | 05 Sep 2025 | 00:48:59 | |
📅 Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Doctor Rod Rohrich discusses his unique practice model and what's made him stand out in highly competitive Dallas, Texas.Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits. Unique Practice ModelObviously, running a practice today is more complicated than ever. Indeed, staffing issues, business struggles, and patient expectations create constant challenges. Therefore, I invited Dr. Rod Rohrich, MD — board-certified plastic surgeon, educator, and founding partner of the Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute — onto the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast. Consequently, in "Rod Rohrich's Unique Practice Model," he explains how he built one of the most effective business systems in plastic surgery. Specifically, you'll learn:
As a result, if you want to balance independence, profitability, and teamwork, this episode is full of proven strategies. Furthermore, Dr. Rohrich shares the same lessons he teaches his fellows and partners. Ultimately, these insights can save you years of frustration. P.S. Similarly, you can lock out competitors and put "golden handcuffs" on your patients with the KiSS Loyalty Club. Specifically, we do 95% of the work. Consequently, your patients return, refer, review, and share you on social media — all without ads or discounts. Certainly, click here to see if your area is still available. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA Practice Growth Resources:
⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drrodrohrich #rodrohrichmd #drrohrich #cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons | |||
| Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR — with John Martin, MD (Ep. 235) | 05 Dec 2023 | 00:45:40 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Indeed, we talk about how Doctor Martin increased his PR image by appearing on "Botched", "Anderson Cooper", and "Dr. Oz". To be sure, we also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying". I'm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR — with John Martin, MD". Certainly, as John D. Rockefeller said, "Next to doing the right thing, the most important thing is to let people know you are doing the right thing." However, is all PR really good PR? Truly, do you really want to be known for some negative event that you are somehow involved in? Furthermore, does it bring you the kind of attention (and patients) you want? In summary, that's what I asked this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest. Dr. John Martin. Markedly, he's a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Coral Gables, FL. Particularly, he's been in practice for the past 36 years. Specifically, he's received lots of PR exposure from the popular shows "Botched", "Dr. Oz" & "Anderson Cooper". Notably, Dr. Martin had treated a trans patient whose face was injected with oil as a filler years ago. However, after a year, nodules were appearing, and reappearing. Indeed, the patient looked like this when they asked Dr. Martin to help ... In summary, we talked about how he helped this person as well as: Firstly on the topic of 'Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR:The PR exposure Dr. Martin got and if it grew his practice. Secondly on the topic of 'Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR:How he bought his building for a steal. Thirdly on the topic of 'Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR:His biggest challenge, even after all of these years and much more... Visit Dr. Martin's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drjohnmartin #johnmartinmd #thedoctors #drphil #droz #andersoncooper #botched #miamiplasticsurgeon #miamicosmeticsurgeon | |||
| 3 Surgeons plus 33 Staff — with Brenton Koch, MD (Ep. 234) | 01 Dec 2023 | 01:05:31 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. Therefore, we discuss the challenges of running a practice with 3 surgeons plus 33 staff. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying". I'm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "3 Surgeons plus 33 Staff — with Brenton Koch, MD". Of course, if you want to scale your practice, (espcially if wanting to have 3 surgeons plus 33 staff) you can:
Without doubt, you can do one or all those strategies. However, that will take you learning new skills to get it all working harmoniously. In summary this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Brenton Koch, MD. In particular, he's a facial plastic surgeon in private practice with a total of 3 surgeons plus 33 staff. Indeed, he's been practicing in West Des Moines, Iowa, for the past 23 years. Markedly, we talked about his journey to private practice and buying land in 2008 and then building a 10K sq ft facility on it. Additionally, we discussed him adding more staff. In particular, having his nephew partner with him. In similar fashion, he then added another surgeon to do body work. Overall, they are now at 33 staff and still growing. In particular, we talked about pearls Dr. Koch has learned about where to find staff and how to motivate them. Explicitly, Dr. Koch also shared an embezzlement story everyone should hear so it doesn't happen to you. Visit Dr. Koch's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA 📕 Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice — What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#getmorepatients #plasticsurgerymarketing #plasticsurgerysocialmedia | |||
| Using Influence to Convert More Consults — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 233) | 22 Nov 2023 | 00:07:44 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and therefore, using influence to convert more consults. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Using Influence to Convert More consults — with Catherine Maley, MBA ". Truly, you don't "sell" anyone on plastic surgery. It's not possible to force consumers to choose you. You can only offer your services to consumers who want to look and feel better. However, if you believe in yourself as a great surgeon, you have a duty in using influence to convert more consults. Do all you can to ethically help prospective patients make a good decision. That way, they get a good result and NOT regret going elsewhere for a cheaper price. Cheaper practices may give them "less than stellar" results. In turn, this makes them feel worse about themselves. Look at it this way. Prospective patients are already interested in your services because: Firstly, they searched online. Secondly, they found you. Thirdly, they called you. Fourthly, they are now visiting you. You didn't pull them in off the street, right? However, the more you understand human behavior and using influence to convert more consults, the more consultations you will convert. So, here are ways to use the principles of influence to address patient concerns. Help them choose you over your competitors. In summary, this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast, titled "Using Influence to Convert More Consults," we invite you on a journey where you'll certainly uncover the following: Firstly, give yourself celebrity status is one way of using influence to convert more consults.Truly, patients love status and authority. You can create that by pre-framing you as the best choice by Certainly, what others say about you is infinitely more important than what you say about you. That's The point is to NOT be like everyone else. You want to rise above the normal and one way to do that is to offer signature procedures. Fourthly, suggesting reciprocity is another method of using influence to convert more consults.It's said that the law of reciprocity states that when people receive something, they feel compelled It's true that patients want what they can't have. Therefore, by creating a limiting constraint, this makes patients want it Truly, procrastination is the biggest enemy for a cosmetic patient to pull the trigger. Seventhly, guaranteeing your services is vital in using influence to convert more consults.It's a fact that fear is a huge barrier to someone who is deciding to have cosmetic surgery. Offer the patient peace of mind with an "I want you happy" guarantee. In conclusion, by incorporating some or all of these strategies will help your patients get to a yes more easily. I guarantee it ;-) — Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #influencecosmeticpatientconsults #getmorecosmeticpatientconsultations #convertmorecosmeticpatientconsultations #howtoconvertmoreconsults | |||
| Attracting and Converting Cosmetic Patients — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 232) | 18 Nov 2023 | 00:41:37 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and therefore, attracting and converting cosmetic patients. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Attracting and Converting Cosmetic Patients — with Catherine Maley, MBA ". In essence, with all that is going on in the world and the uncertainty of the economy, I wanted to give you a different perspective on how to attract cash-paying patients on autopilot without advertising or discounting. In truth, now, more than ever, is a good time to reconsider how you go about cosmetic patient attraction and conversion so this recording is a workshop I did that will open your mind to a new way of thinking. In conclusion, this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast, titled "Attracting and Converting Cosmetic Patients," we invite you on a journey where you'll certainly uncover the following: Firstly, how to scale your cosmetic revenues without advertising, even if you're surrounded by competition. Secondly, why premium pricing is the secret to getting even better results for your patients than you are now. Thirdly, how this one simple plan increases cosmetic patient visits while decreasing overhead expenses. Fourthly, why redesigning your website, endless content marketing and magazine ads are the worst way to attract new patients..and what you can do to create immediate momentum today. And fifthly, and how to do all of this while enjoying a fulfilling livelhood, developing lasting relationships with your patients, and enjoying the pride that comes with transforming the lives of others. I hope you get much value from this and let's talk soon. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticevault #getmorecosmeticpatients #convertmorecosmeticpatients #attractmorecosmeticpatients #howtomakemoremoneyinplasticsurgery | |||
| Get More Leads for Free — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 231) | 09 Nov 2023 | 00:17:03 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and therefore, how to get more leads for free. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Get More Leads for Free — with Catherine Maley, MBA ". In essence, have you ever noticed some people seem to be everywhere on the Internet? As in, they keep popping up and you wonder how do they do that? In truth, it's not by accident, nor is it by luck. They have a plan to make that happen so they stay "top of mind". This is the reason that throughout the years, I have developed my own marketing plan, in order to help you get more leads for free. Certainly, this was the topic of one of my latest talks I recently gave at the CSCS Conference in San Diego. Therefore, since I received lots of positive feedback, I wanted to share it with you so you too, stay "top of mind". In conclusion, this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast, titled "Get More Leads for Free," we invite you on a journey where you'll certainly uncover the following: Firstly, the vital Marketing Mix, which is crucial for being present wherever cosmetic patients are. Moreover, explore the 3 indispensable Marketing Channels that you MUST utilize for optimal results. Additionally, discover the Content Creation Machine, which is a powerful tool that seamlessly brings in leads for free. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: 📕 Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice — What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonleads #patientleads #cosmeticpatientleads #plasticsurgerypatientleads #plasticsurgeryleads #cosmeticsurgeryleads #cosmeticsurgeonleads #getmorepatientleads | |||
| What's Your Competitive Advantage — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 230) | 03 Nov 2023 | 00:12:24 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we delve into the intricacies of the plastic surgery industry, and talk about what's your competitive advantage. Here, we explore the business and marketing aspects that can make or break your success. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, the author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." I also serve as a consultant to plastic surgeons, guiding them to acquire more patients and maximize their profits through strategic planning and effective marketing. Now, in today's episode titled "What's Your Competitive Advantage — with Catherine Maley, MBA," we'll be addressing a common issue many plastic surgeons face. A plastic surgeon client was complaining to me the other day that his colleague was doing more surgeries than he was. Nonetheless, he didn't have clarity on the question, "What's your competitive advantage." He was frustrated because he KNEW he was way more qualified and skilled than this other guy. Besides, he had been in the area longer than this other guy. And, to top it off, his prices were even better than this other guy's. However, despite all these advantages, "the other guy" was doing better than him. The answer is both simple and complicated… Just because you're a great surgeon with impressive credentials, that no longer entitles you to a busy, successful practice. Instead, if you can't answer the question, "What's your competitive advantage," you might struggle. Our industry has been saturated with lots of choice for cosmetic patients; consequently, they are overwhelmed. Prospective patients are clicking all over the Internet, and they are visiting many websites. All too often, these websites start looking the same. They are searching for something more. They are searching for connection. The prospective patient is searching for a connection with you. Somehow, they have to have an emotional shift when reading about you, watching you, and meeting you. That's what builds trust and belief that you're the best choice for them. This is key to understanding what's your competitive advantage. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: 📕 Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice — What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #yourcompetitivepractice #competitiveplasticsurgerypractice #competitiveplasticsurgery | |||
| Slow Down or Double Down — with Steven J. Pearlman, MD (Ep. 229) | 27 Oct 2023 | 00:48:51 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and whether to slow down or double down. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Slow Down or Double Down — with Steven J. Pearlman, MD". After being in practice for many years, some surgeons have had enough. While they enjoy surgery, they do not enjoy the ups and downs of running the business size of their practice. Or figuring out how much to spend and who to spend it with to get them new patients. Or, they have had enough of staffing and HR issues to last them a lifetime ;-) But other surgeons love a challenge and have no intention of slowing down. They see their cosmetic practice more like a puzzle. The puzzle pieces are their resources and assets, so they are constantly fitting the pieces together to make up a smooth running, profitable money-making machine. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest was Dr. Steven Pearlman, a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice on the upper eastside of NY. Dr. Pearlman has been in practice over 34 years and instead of slowing down, he chose to double down. We talked about how he scaled by doubling his space in Manhattan, adding another surgeon, as well as bringing on more technology and staff to run it, and where social media fits into his marketing plan. We also talked about how he got 256 legitimate reviews from some of the toughest patients in the world (rhino), and his amazing wardrobe and shoe collection. Visit Dr. Pearlman's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #doubledownyourpractice #howtoslowdownyourpractice #drstevenpearlman #stevenpearlmanmd #aafprs #americanacademyoffacialplasticandreconstructivesurgeons | |||
| Busy Without Advertising — with Scott R. Miller, MD (Ep. 228) | 20 Oct 2023 | 00:48:04 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to stay busy without advertising. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Busy Without Advertising — with Scott R. Miller, MD". On average, the "experts" say a plastic surgeon should spend 6–12% of their annual revenues on marketing to include advertising, Website/SEO and content creation. For example, if you are a $1,000,000 practice, your average advertising spend of 9% would equal $90,000 per year or $7,500 per month. Of course, that doesn't take into account what advertising stage you are at. Because there is a big difference in ad budgets if you are getting a new practice off the ground, or a 10-year-old practice ready to uplevel, or a busy and mature practice with an established track record and reputation. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest was with Dr. Scott Miller, a board-certified plastic surgeon who has run his solo practice in gorgeous LA Jolla, CA for the past 27 years. He also manages to keep busy without advertising. We talked about how he grew up in Las Vegas playing tennis and then found his way to medicine, and then to LA Jolla. He laid out how he has kept the majority of his staff for over 10 years, and how he runs a busy practice without advertising, even though he's in a very competitive area. Here's a hint for his success: He's thinking about his patients above all else ;-) Visit Dr. Miller's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#noplasticsurgeryads #advertisingforsurgeons #plasticsurgeonadvertising #drscottmiller #scottrmillermd #lajollaplasticsurgeon #lajollacosmeticsurgeon | |||
| The Successful Practice Triad — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 227) | 13 Oct 2023 | 00:19:32 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the successful practice triad. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "The Successful Practice Triad — with Catherine Maley, MBA ". A big mistake I see when consulting with plastic surgeons is that they lack vision, clarity and a plan. Too many are "winging it".
This sporadic way of running a practice in "reactive" mode creates unnecessary chaos so this should help.... This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode is me laying out my simple framework called, The Successful Practice Triad for Plastic SurgeonsIt's simple. When you focus on the successful practice triad consistently, your work life gets better. You have better-quality leads coming in that don't waste your time, because you are using the best marketing channels given your circumstances and geographic location. Your messaging and branding is on point. You are strategically encouraging prospective patients to contact you, rather than simply "like you". You are attracting patients who care more about you than the lowest bid. I go into a lot more detail in this podcast with take-a-way tips you can use right away. P.S. Here's an interesting stat....most millionaires are small business owners, not Doctors. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpracticeconsultant #cosmeticpracticebusinesscoach #catherinemaley | |||
| Painless & Drainless Tummy Tuck — with Daniel Gould, MD, PhD (Ep. 226) | 06 Oct 2023 | 01:18:35 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and Doctor Gould's 'Painless & Drainless' tummy tuck. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Painless & Drainless Tummy Tuck — with Daniel Gould, MD, PhD". As it gets more challenging to differentiate yourself from your competitors, you have to dig deep. It's not enough to be good. You need to be a cut above, but that's not enough either because you also need to be able to "show and tell" those differences to the consumer layperson, so they see you as the best choice. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest was Dr. Daniel Gould, a board-certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon in Beverly Hills for the past 4 years, who's developed his 'Painless & Drainless Tummy Tuck' procedure. Here are some of the topics we covered:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#beverlyhillsplasticsurgeon #beverlyhillscosmeticsurgeon #painlessdrainlesstummytuck #painlesstummytuck #drainlesstummytuck #drdanielgould #danielgouldmd | |||
| PCC Tools to Convert More Consults — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 325) | 02 Sep 2025 | 00:32:58 | |
📅 Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ PCC Tools to Convert More Consults with training, CRM, and incentives that help coordinators boost bookings, surgeries, and revenue growth.Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits. PCC Tools to Convert More Consults into SurgeriesFirstly, cosmetic patients today are sophisticated and skeptical. Additionally, they have endless information at their fingertips. Consequently, they shop around, compare surgeons, check reviews, scroll through before-and-after photos, and scrutinize your online presence before ever visiting your office. Therefore, your Patient Care Coordinator (PCC) is no longer just a "nice-to-have" role. Instead, it is a critical business driver. In fact, think of this role as your practice's chief revenue officer. Moreover, a skilled PCC connects with prospective patients. Furthermore, they build trust, answer tough questions, and guide hesitant consumers from curiosity to commitment. For example, if the average surgical case is worth $10,000, closing just five additional surgeries per month adds $50,000. Consequently, this translates to $600,000 annually. Also, this does not include repeat treatments, referrals, or lifetime value from patients who return for additional procedures. However, marketing dollars are wasted if consultations don't convert. In other words, spending $20,000 per month on ads and SEO is ineffective if your coordinator cannot build rapport, articulate your value, or confidently close. Therefore, the smartest practices invest heavily in their PCC. Specifically, they equip them with the right tools, training, and incentives to succeed. Hiring the Right PersonalityFirstly, conversion begins with connection. Additionally, patients care more about comfort with the person guiding them than credentials alone. Moreover, a PCC's role focuses on addressing emotions rather than technical details. For example, the coordinator should be likable, friendly, empathetic, confident, goal-oriented, self-motivated, disciplined, and a strong problem-solver. On the other hand, avoid candidates who are transactional, shy, or disorganized. Furthermore, PCCs must initiate conversations, guide discussions, and ask for decisions. Notably, technical knowledge can be taught. However, empathy, charisma, curiosity, and self-determination are innate qualities that cannot. In fact, one national survey found that over 70% of elective surgery patients cited a coordinator's warmth as a major factor in deciding to book. Ultimately, when hiring, consider presence, communication style, and the ability to connect. Consequently, a strong PCC can add millions in lifetime revenue. Set Clear Goals and Tie Them to RewardsFirstly, hiring the right personality is only step one. Additionally, even the best PCC underperforms without structure. Therefore, clear goals and meaningful rewards give your coordinator focus, motivation, and ownership over results. For instance, Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's longtime partner, famously said, "Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome." Accordingly, behavior almost always follows incentives. Too often, coordinators are treated as glorified receptionists. Instead, set defined key performance indicators (KPIs) and tie them to tangible rewards. Consequently, this elevates the role into a revenue-driving position. At minimum, PCCs should be measured on:
Moreover, tracking these metrics identifies strengths and weaknesses. For example, if many consults are scheduled but few convert, objection-handling training is needed. Conversely, if conversions are strong but consults are few, lead generation needs improvement. Compensation ModelsFirstly, compensation can take several forms:
Furthermore, compensation is not only financial. Recognition and achievement matter. For example, monthly leaderboards, quarterly awards, and public praise encourage performance. However, avoid creating a prima donna. Instead, incentives should motivate while keeping team cohesion intact. Benchmarks to Aim ForFirstly, industry benchmarks vary by practice. However, consult-to-surgery conversion averages 45–60%, often higher with professional PCC training. Additionally, lead response times should be under five minutes for calls and texts and under one hour for email. Consequently, goals and incentives transform your PCC from an administrator into a revenue growth engine. Provide the Right ToolsFirstly, even the most charismatic coordinator cannot close consistently without proper tools. Consequently, expecting them to manage inquiries with sticky notes, memory, or cluttered email is ineffective. Therefore, a Customer Relationship Management (CRM) system is crucial. For example, a CRM captures, organizes, and tracks every lead from inquiry to surgery. Additionally, look for:
Moreover, a CRM ensures that leads are followed up consistently. Data shows most patients require 7–10 touches before booking. Consequently, automation for emails and texts saves time and increases conversion. Furthermore, a CRM highlights gaps in your lead funnel. For example, you can see:
For instance, a Miami practice implemented a CRM, automated follow-ups, and objection-handling scripts. Consequently, their consult-to-surgery rate rose from 48% to 71%, adding $750,000 in annual revenue without increasing marketing spend. Consultation Room DesignFirstly, the consultation environment influences conversion. Consequently, create a private, professional room that supports PCC efforts. Moreover, environmental psychology shows that lighting, seating, and décor affect comfort and trust. For example, soft lighting and eye-level seating foster openness. Key elements include:
Furthermore, an NYC practice redesigned its consultation room with plush chairs and warm lighting. Consequently, their consult-to-surgery conversion rose 17% within three months. Demonstrating ValueFirstly, patients need clarity on why to choose your practice. Additionally, the PCC should communicate differentiators, such as surgeon experience, safety standards, advanced technology, and exceptional service. Moreover, the PCC can act as a walking testimonial. For example, if they've undergone a procedure themselves, their personal experience builds credibility. Furthermore, provide complementary consult cards for social distribution. Consequently, patients can easily schedule appointments. Also, storytelling helps overcome skepticism. For example, share patient success stories and photos that address common objections. Consequently, uncertainty transforms into confidence. Handling Price and FinancingFirstly, price objections are common. Therefore, provide a clear financing menu including full payment, third-party financing, and prepayment incentives. Moreover, present options visually. Consequently, patients focus on comfort rather than affordability. For example, a New York practice implemented a one-page menu, and conversion rates rose 22%. Offering Strategic Wiggle RoomFirstly, not every patient commits immediately. Therefore, subtle incentives encourage hesitant patients without lowering fees. Additionally, psychology shows that scarcity, urgency, and recognition motivate action. For example, offer limited-time perks, gifts with surgery, or multi-procedure savings. Consequently, your PCC can close more cases while maintaining value integrity. Training, Coaching, and AccountabilityFirstly, continuous development is essential. Additionally, PCCs must refine skills, practice objection-handling, and stay current on procedures and financing. Moreover, coaching should be ongoing. Consequently, schedule regular reviews, celebrate wins, address challenges, and track metrics such as lead-to-consult rate, consult-to-surgery rate, and revenue collected. For example, a Dallas practice implemented a weekly PCC scorecard. Consequently, consult-to-surgery rates rose from 41% to 68% in six months. ConclusionFirstly, the PCC is not just an appointment setter. Instead, they are the growth engine of your practice. Additionally, when properly hired, trained, incentivized, and equipped, they transform inquiries into loyal surgical patients. Furthermore, the strategies outlined—hiring for personality, setting measurable goals, providing systems, creating an ideal consultation environment, clarifying value, equipping sales tools, offering incentives, coaching, and tracking metrics—work together to maximize conversions. Ultimately, the cosmetic marketplace is more competitive than ever. Consequently, practices that invest in PCCs gain a strong competitive edge, converting consultations into revenue, referrals, and lasting patient relationships. Finally, don't wait. Train, equip, and support your PCC, and watch consultation conversion rates soar. For professional training and ongoing coaching, visit ConvertingAcademy.com. Lastly, thank you for listening to "Beauty and the Biz." Please subscribe and leave a review if you found this valuable. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA Practice Growth Resources:
⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticpracticecoordinator #plasticsurgerycoordinator #cosmeticsurgerycoordinator #cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons | |||
| Transgender Niche — with Regina E. Rodman, MD (Ep. 225) | 29 Sep 2023 | 00:38:13 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Rodman has a transgender niche practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Transgender Niche — with Regina E. Rodman, MD". For a surgeon to enter the marketplace in today's crowded marketplace, it can be daunting. How do you differentiate enough to stand out and capture the attention of patients? One way is to offer services that your competitors don't and specialize in a niche market segment, while catering to its unique needs. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Regina Rodman, MD, a facial plastic and craniofacial surgeon in private practice in Houston and Dubai, specializing in bony contouring of the chin, jaw and forehead. That training and experience has led her to specialize in gender affirmation and facial feminization where she has quickly built a name and reputation for herself around the US and the world. Here's what we talked about:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Transcript: Transgender Niche — with Regina E. Rodman, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Rodman has a transgender niche practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's special guest is Dr. Regina Rodman, who has a transgender niche practice. She's a facial plastic surgeon. Plastic and cranial surgeon in private practice in Houston and Dubai, which we'll talk more about. She's specializing in bony contouring of the chin, jaw, and forehead. Now, Dr. Rodman attended Rush University in Chicago for medical school and her Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery training at the University of Texas, Houston. As well as advanced facial plastic surgery at SUNY Upstate. Now, Dr. Rodman has written numerous articles and speaks all over the world on facial surgery, especially chin and jaw contouring, forehead reduction and facial feminization, and does mission work in India. She also has practices in both Houston and Dubai. Dr. Rodman, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you. Regina E. Rodman, MD: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, terrific. I'm so glad we finally met up at a conference. So, I was able to track you down and get you on the show. So, why facial plastic surgery? Why not some other specialty? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: That's a good question. So, the truth is, when I was, I always knew I was going to be a surgeon, like without a doubt, just the way that my brain works. I love surgery because there is a concrete problem that I can fix with my hands and it's done. What I'm done. So, I always knew it was going to be surgery for me. I actually, when I was in medical school thought that I do orthopedic surgery, or for a minute I was, I was between the two, which is funny to me now because they're so opposite. But I wanted, I thought I do, I like orthopedics because I'm really into fitness, I'm really into sports, and I do a lot of stuff on my social media, stuff about fitness, and just kind of like body positivity. But then I just remember I went and chatted with an orthopedic surgeon And he was like hammering something and it was like, doom, doom, and then he goes, okay, that's good enough. And I was like, good enough. Like, it should be perfect. And then I remember in anatomy class, first year of med school, we did the head and the neck. Like, I loved it. Everyone else hated it. Cause it's, there's so many structures and everything is kind of packed together. And I knew right then. It's super high real estate. Everything's important. You can't make a mistake. You have to know everything in three dimensions. And for me, that just, like, I knew right then that that's what I was going to do. I did a lot of art, actually, in my undergrad. And I've always liked that, especially 3D art. And so, it just, plastics felt like the nice meld of both of those things. And like I said, it was really head and neck for me. Like I never really was interested in breast augmentation, body stuff. Although I mean, plastic surgeons do a lot of really amazing microvascular stuff. But for me, it was just always going to be the face. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then how did you get from fellowship to Houston in your own practice? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? What was that journey like? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah. So, the interesting thing, I had a little bit of a roundabout path, which everybody does kind of like, right? Like, it's just never what I thought I'd be doing. I really was focused on reconstructive surgery. I wanted to do microvascular. I want to do free flaps, work with cancer patients. I was interested in all kinds of reconstruction. So, I did my fellowship up in SUNY Upstate in Syracuse, New York, which is a really interesting program because it's one of the few otolaryngology fellowships that I specializes in cranial facial surgery. So, we, the man who started the fellowship, Scott Tatum, kind of 20 years ago, 25 years ago, moved into basically a vacuum. So, there's no oral surgery residency, there's no plastic surgery residency. So, he does everything. Like we did cranial synostosis, tons of cleft lip and palate, distractions, orthognathic surgery, genioplasty, frontal orbital advancements. I mean, these crazy bone surgeries. Which I liked. I was interested. I also did a lot of microvascular surgery. When I was done training, I thought, I'll go into academics. That's what you do with this kind of training. And there were just no jobs. And that's a reality in facial plastics. A lot of times there's like one job maybe for all 65 applicants. So, it just wasn't an option for me at that year. So, I started in private practice with a group the head of which was a craniofacial plastic surgeon. So, we got to do some interesting cases and then eventually I left that group and decided to start my own practice. And so, what I've done in my own practice, which like I said, is not really kind of what I thought I'd be doing, but I had so much training in jaw and chin and I felt like I could do, you know, these really dramatic jaw, double jaw surgeries in private practice, I had learned about V line surgery. Which is really popular in South Korea for the angle of the mandible is removed. And the point is to make the jaw a little bit more V shaped, popular with people who have kind of a square jawline. So, I kind of started marketing that, I put some of that out there on social media, did a few of those patients. And then one day a transgender woman emailed me and said, Oh, what will you work with? Transgender patients and I'm sure absolutely. So, I did her chin and jaw and a few other things and She was happy and then she told her friends who told her friend who told her friend and now that's really the bulk of what I do is those kind of Feminizing surgeries, although now, I do I still see a lot of transgender, non-binary patients, but there's also a lot of cisgender women who just think their brow bone is heavy, or want a narrower lower face, want their hairline lowered so it's kind of a fun niche practice that I have. Catherine Maley, MBA: And how did you end up in Houston? Because it is one competitive area, isn't it? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, although the kind of, the interesting thing about doing something that not many people do is, there's still competition, but Not so much directly in my neighborhood. There is another woman who also does, has a similar practice in Austin, and we're friends and there's a few other people, but the good thing about doing these sort of difficult unusual surgeries is there's not as much competition, but the way I ended up is I did my residency here, and, You know, people don't have to stay where they did their residency, but you meet a lot of people in the community. You meet people. I was plugged in. I was married at the time and my ex-husband worked here. So, it just seemed pretty natural that I was going to come back to Houston. As an aside I matched here and as everyone knows, you match where you match. And I remember being like, really? Like Texas? Really? I was living in Chicago at the time. And I thought I was, I was, you know, I was happy to have a position and happy I got a spot, but I had a lot of anxiety about moving to Texas. And, Houston's great. It's great. Well, right now we're like the surface of the sun, but in general, it's just, it's a great place to live. It's not necessarily like a tourist destination, but it's nice to, it's affordable. You can drive, you can park, and yet we still have all the benefits of, theater, opera, ballet, sports teams, you know, all the benefits of a major city. So, so it just made a lot of sense for me to just stay here. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Where are you originally from? Because you're not, you're not from Chicago. I can hear that. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: My parents are not in the military, although people think that my dad's actually a college professor. So, we moved for a master's degree, then doctorate, then postdoc, job. I kind of grew up all over. So, like I, Georgia, North Carolina, Indiana, went to high school in Minnesota, and then moved to Chicago to do a post baccalaureate program because I didn't originally go into medicine out of my undergrad. And then, then matched in otolaryngology, and that's what brought me to Texas. Catherine Maley, MBA: I gotcha. It's always a jagged road, you know? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: It is so jagged. So, yeah, I mean, from, from the start, I think on some level, I always knew I wanted to be a doctor, but. Going through undergrad, I went to a liberal arts school, and there was just so many things to learn, and I wanted to study abroad, and I knew I wanted to be a doctor, but I just felt like, not right now, and so I took all the music classes, like I said, I took a lot of art classes, I majored in anthropology, I actually worked as a social worker for a couple of years, and then, It just kind of kept coming up. Like I would take my clients to the, to the doctor, their doctor's appointment and the doctors would, Oh, have you ever thought about medicine? And people just mentioned that. And finally, after a couple of years, I was like, okay, okay, I'm going to go back. I'm going to do it. And so, I wanted to go back and take all the. science classes and stuff. But for me, that was the best path because I had tried a lot of stuff. And so, then once I got into med school, I mean, this was hard. And I felt like I've worked in an office. I've worked at this. I've worked at this. I don't want any of those jobs. So, when med school was really hard, it was helpful to think, yeah, but you've tried the other things. You've, you've done all the things and this is, this is who you are. This is who you're supposed to be. And then just keep plugging. Catherine Maley, MBA: And you're happy with your decision? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Most days. Okay. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, like any job, there's frustrations, there's problems, but I mean, I think about this when some days I'm frustrated and I think like, Oh, I'm going to do something else with my life. And then, but there is nothing, there is just nothing I love more than operating. Nothing, not even anything to do in my spare time. Like I love it. It is my happy place. And that it's like my superpower. I do these. Some of these facial feminization cases are 10 12 hours, it's just, I can do that, I'm not tired, I am not hungry, I'm just in a flow state and it's just, my brain is quiet and everything just happens and I just, I can't imagine working at Alpert's Law. There's nothing else I think that I would. Or I would get that. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great. And the rule is it's 50 50. So, if you're happy with what you're doing 50 percent of the time, you're, you're okay. You know? Yeah. Anyway, back to that the facial feminization surgeries, I, sorry for my ignorance, are they covered under insurance? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, I would love to talk about that because not many people really, I mean, they kind of know or they've heard, but not many people are really familiar with it. So, facial feminization, when I started it was not. Covered much at all more and more I think insurance companies are recognizing that these are really important surgeries for these patients. And, necessary. And so, more and more insurance are starting to cover it. There's a couple of companies that cover it across the board. And so, I have a lot of patients who will go get jobs, like Starbucks is one, Amazon is one, although go start working there so that they can get the insurance that covers it. So, it is definitely becoming more widespread and I think talked about and known a little bit more. Even, even in the last five years, it's, it's exponent or it's, it's increased quite a bit. Catherine Maley, MBA: Just covering the OR alone though, how, how, who's paying for this? If that's a 12-hour procedure, that's amazing. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, yeah, so insurance or patients pay out of pocket. And it's a lot of money. And so. I mean, so many people ask me like, well, how do you know, they're sure? What if they change their mind? And I mean, to save that kind of money and fly across the country and, you know, undergo, it's a lot of surgery. It's a lot of recovery. Like, these patients have fought it through. They, they feel like they need this to, so that their outside matches their inside. And just to kind of be who they are and to live in the world. So, it's, it's a really important thing. And so, a lot of patients, if they can, will work sometimes for years to save up to have a procedure like this. Catherine Maley, MBA: Just out of curiosity, how much of your practice is just straight everyday cosmetic, facial cosmetic versus the insurance side or the feminization side? Probably at this point, the like transgender patients are probably 40, 45%. And then, The rest is similar procedures, but on cisgender patients. What's a cisgender? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, great question. So, cis means same. So, cisgender people are people who identify their gender identity the same as that they were born. So, I was born biologically female. I identify as a female. I'm cisgender. Transgender patients are patients trans means opposite. So, they are born. A given sex, their gender identity, meaning they identify is different from the sex they were born. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay. Regina E. Rodman, MD: There are some what we just call women, which by that we mean cisgender women, like I was saying that maybe want their hairline lowered or want some of the similar procedures to just look softer, feminine. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then how important is the non-surgical side of your practice, or are you just doing these big cases? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: It is not important. I would say it's probably 10 percent of my practice. I don't, I spent a whole year trying to build a med spa and trying to build up those services. And I know it. I mean, I see the successful med spas. It just didn't fit me. It just didn't fit me in my practice. And so, I really try to incentivize my surgical patients to come back to me for their injections, for their skincare, for, you know, anything, I would much prefer my patients not go to a separate med spa, so I try to give them some discounts and special treatments and stuff But I don't really have a big med spa side of the practice, which, like I said, I, I spent probably a year and a half really focusing on building that. And then finally I was like, you know what, I'm, I'm good at this thing. I have a great practice here. Let's just focus on the thing that I like and that's, that's working. So, for now, that's where I am. Catherine Maley, MBA: Honestly, from a marketing consultant perspective, I think you have such a good niche going there and you're going throughout the whole nation or probably the world on this particular. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? So, you're going deep into a procedure that's fairly new. The other doctors aren't doing it. It's really specific. I mean, if you can live off of that and you enjoy it, what the heck, you know, go for it. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, and I think that was some of why the meds wouldn't take off as I would say at least half of my patients come from out of town, out of state, even out of the country sometimes. So, they're not coming back there. They don't all come back for their right or Botox injections, whatever. The people in town, I mean, we have a good core people that, that have a procedure with me and then follow up that live locally. And even Houston. Patients from San Antonio, Dallas, Austin will drive back to have their PRP or, you know, whatever they need as an adjunct to their surgery. But it's primarily my surgical patients that are getting Med Spa type services. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, regarding the business side of your practice, what's the biggest challenge? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Ooh, I want to say all of it, but, but really specifically now, I think human resources and staff management. Right now, the second I have an amazing team, I have really great people. But, I mean, I think about this sometimes, like, I did this very academic fellowship where, you know, I'm rebuilding infant baby skulls, I can harvest your leg bone and rebuild your face, and we can do these crazy things, and then we get out, and, like, here, run a business, you know, and some fellowships I know get, like, have a little bit of training in that, mine did not, so it was a very steep learning curve, all of it, like, I had to be the, you Interior decorator, and the HR, and the IT person, and just, and all those things are things, especially like human resources and management I mean, there's master's degrees in those. There's a ton of stuff to know. So, it's been a steep learning curve. That's still the thing that I think is ever evolving, and I'm always trying to do a little better. And I will just say, thank you for your podcast, because, I, all the things I learned was from podcasts. I read a few books, but there's a few books that are varied enough. So, the Ear podcast was one. There're a few others that we, I made all my staff listen to Ear podcast too, which was really helpful, especially for my Paging Care Coordinator. Because we're kind of learning this on the fly, a lot of us. So, the, I feel like the IT stuff, now we've hired somebody, the decorator, we've hired somebody, the human resources, I have help. But. So, ultimately, managing a team and kind of having the team flow and, and then and, and creating the clinic environment that I want is a constant upkeep and constant evolving. Catherine Maley, MBA: And the bad news is it's always going to be because humans are involved and, and they're involved and evolving. And so are you and it's just a real dynamic situation where people are coming and going. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Wow. So, there's nothing easy about that. Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, right now, the second I love my team, I feel like I'm like, man, I've gotten so much better at hiring. They have, some of them have bigger goals. They want to go back to school as they should. So, it's not going to be perfect forever. So, I'm always trying to. You know, get more insights or hear what other people do. Because that's really what's been helpful is hearing other people's experience. Catherine Maley, MBA: And enjoy it when it's stable like this because it doesn't always stay that way and you just have to keep adapting. It's okay, you know. Tell me about Dubai. I've never been to Dubai. I've been to Saudi Arabia and that was fascinating. My goal is to get to Dubai. Are you going there very often or where is that fitting into your world? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, so I'm going back in November. You can come if you want. So, basically, I went there for vacation. I just wanted to see it. And I just fell in love with it. It's such an interesting city. There's just so much development, so much technology. It's just, there's so many interesting things about it. And I knew that a lot of the Middle East had had a need for female plastic surgeons. So, a lot of the women who live in the area. They're Muslim, they wear burqa, the hijab, cover their face, they're allowed, for medical care, they can take it off but for plastic surgery, it's, first of all, it's kind of a gray area, and then when they do take it off a lot of times the husband needs to be present, of course, this is a broad generalization, there's different sex and different types of religion that, that have variations. I acknowledge, but in general, husband has to be there unless it's a female doctor, in which case, woman to woman, it's, it's you know, free for all. So, there, I knew there was a need for Western trained women to come especially in plastic surgery. So, honestly, I created this opportunity for myself. I was like, I want to work here. While I was there, I started cold calling a couple of places, I got in touch with a few people, came back, I found some leads and pursued a few things, then COVID happened and that kind of went by the wayside, but then one time I was just, I had a patient who had a very, a really difficult, a really difficult case. It was like a revision, revision, revision. He was happy with his results. We were just chatting one day about Middle East. And I was saying, I told him how, Oh, I had been trying to pursue this opportunity. Once things open up again, you know, maybe I'll try again. And my patient said, Oh, well, you know, my brother runs the biggest healthcare company in Dubai, don't you? And I was like, I do not tell me more. So, he, the next time his brother came to town, we all met and we got along. So, they flew me out there to see if it was a fit and kind of the same there. Like the, the things that I do, especially the bony surgeries, there's just no one at all, like in that whole region doing that. So, and it hired by a hospital. So, right now what I'm doing is quarterly. I'm trying to go spend a week to seven to 10 days. Just do all the surgery I can. And then follow up with the patients before and after with video chat. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, so are you doing, what kind of surgery are you doing? Craniofacial surgery? Feminization surgery? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, facial feminization, as I do it here, is not legal there. Catherine Maley, MBA: I was thinking, I can't imagine them being that open. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Dubai is surprisingly liberal. I'd say it's probably, you know, the most Westernized city in the Middle East. So, the hospital stance on it as of now is that they do cosmetic surgery, and there's no insurance coverage there, so they do cosmetic surgery if a patient wants a hairline advancement, that's probably the most popular thing there is just to have the hairline lowered for all women and their stance is just if a patient wants a cosmetic surgery, we provide cosmetic surgery, We're not going to ask a lot of questions. People can have whatever they want. So, so I haven't done one of these big, like, full face transformations. But, but rhinoplasty, genioplasty, hairline, the hairline lowering is something I do a lot of here and there. And it's, it's still relatively new, so I'm still trying to grow that part of my practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that can be a really lucrative profit center for you too yeah? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Hopefully. I went into it with the idea that as long as I don't lose money, it's worth it. Cause it's just, it's just something different. I think we go through training, like, okay, undergrad, we got to, got to get into med school, we got to get a good residency, got to get a fellowship, we got to get a good job, start my own practice, go to this, and now I'm kind of at this place where, I have a nice practice. I have a good life and a little part of me is like, this is it for 20 more years. Like you're just going to be in the same office. So, it just adds just a new dimension, a new perspective. It's interesting to just learn how different patients see things, what different patients want. Sort of the aesthetic is different in the Middle East. So, I'm learning to listen to that. It's just fun. Just something to spice it up. And if I end up. Okay. Making a lot of money. Great. And if not, it's just fun to be, you know, have some variety. Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely agree. I often think about that half the time. I think surgeons buy lasers because they're bored. They're just absolutely bored of their business and they're like, well, I don't know what, I don't know what to do. So, I think that's a great idea. Quarterly get the heck out and go do something else. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: And that's a great idea. Yeah, and I, I mean, I don't have kids. I never wanted kids, so I'm free to travel. I'm free to go away for a week. And it's like a good time. You know, I'm, I'm young enough that it's not, the jet lag is real, but. As I'm young enough that I can adapt to it 24 years I probably won't want to be doing this, but for right now it's just really fun. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, where does India fit into this? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? I know you've been doing some mission work, tell us about that. Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah. That all started and happened before, long before the Dubai the Dubai project. So, it is, I do it through a mission called the India Project, and I've done several other missions before I went to Guatemala, been to South America, a few other things, but the India project, I've been back a few times signed up for it. I just, again, it's, I was just, I think, at least me, and I think a lot of other surgeons are like this. I mean, we just need to have to do, we just need to be doing something all the time. And I don't want to violate it. So, it's, it's, again, it's just a nice thing. And it's just a nice way to feel like you're giving back. And. We're giving back, but then, you know, it's kind of cliche, but I also learn so much every time I go abroad and work in, like, a totally different environment with a totally different situation. So, the India project is the one who organizes the whole trip, but the people who have gone on it the last few years, and I haven't been actually since COVID, but the first few years that we did it, they were all, we're all graduates of my same fellowship. Yep. So, we're, we're kind of buddies. We have the same training, but we have vastly different practices. So, we're a great team because we all know how to do pallets. I mean, we all trained in that forever. We know how to do micro show. We know how to do. A lot of these congenital defects, that's really the bulk of our fellowship. But one person also did a microvascular cancer fellowship, one is in a smaller town and so he does oculoplastics, trauma, everything at an academic center, I'm in private practice doing a little more cosmetic. So, we all really have, we have the same foundation, but then we have different specialized skills. And so, it's really great for me just academically because a lot of times I'll have something that I'm, I ask for. It's just, you know, one of the other doctors is like, Oh, how would you repair this? And they have something I've never heard of, but then I also have skills that they don't practice all the time. I mean, I do tons, like, for example, I do tons of fat grafting for cosmetic reasons, but it also works great in cleft lips that are thin or, you know birth defects where some of the skin is thinned out. And so, I'm like, Oh, let me show you how I do this. So, it's been really great. And I'm hoping that we kind of, now that everything is stabilized, we get to go again this coming year. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Let's switch gears and talk about marketing. Here's the thing about what you're trying to do is go wide, you know, with a few procedures. But Google doesn't like that. They don't want you to do that. They want you to stay local. How are you handling that? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, so again, this is a lot of trial and error. Nobody has a, here's a niche practice. Handbook. So, I have learned that Google ads just don't work for me. I've tried several, tried three different companies. One that is really known for being great and has all the latest and greatest. And it just doesn't work for me because they really, exactly, they want to target an area. And there's people in Houston that want to do neoplasty, but Not that many. And so really what I found is our, our best leads come from social media, come from our website, like the website SEO. People know what procedure they need and they will hop on Google or they'll hop on you know, we get a lot of patients actually from social media. They'll hop on Instagram and search. Chin reduction and they don't necessarily know it's called a genioplasty But they know they want their chin smaller or small chin surgery something like that So, we have really made an effort to put hashtags on all of our social media posts so that our page comes up when patients Are looking for that and I would say Least half of my patients more probably 60 or 70 percent of my out-of-town patients. We actually get from social media Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, if just in case you wanted my two cents, you're doing a ton of videos on Instagram. I would be so specific. I would have like a jaw the way the patient would say it. They wouldn't say that medical term. They would say like chin, chin. Shaping or chin augmentation or something like that. And if you just did those short, even the Instagram reels, what is a chin A or what is, you know? I think I can go far. Because I think social media is your best bet. Like you're doing to go for a big, much broader reach. Yeah. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, the last year. We put a ton of money into Google ads and it just, it just didn't return what it was supposed to. Then I made some efforts to really rehaul my website and I'm happy with that. I think that my new company did a great job fleshing out some of the content, explaining stuff a little bit better because just like you said, like I know what this is. And when I write the content, I write something. There's is a little more probably. Layperson friendly. So, that has been really helpful. And then I decided just to try to focus a lot more on social media. Just to do little. Educational videos. That is a very hard position to hire for, so I'm going to help with that. So, I finally now have somebody who's good, and we've, we're starting to get a really good flow and so I'm hoping that we continue to do more things like that. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you suggest others that are entering this marketplace, or they're just trying to find their way in this marketplace because it got so crowded would you suggest they also niche it like you did, or do they stay broad and just Be, "oh, I'm everything. I do all of it. I do rhino. I do body. I do face". Or something like what you're doing because honestly in today's world to stand out You've got to pick a procedure. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Externally, yes. That's what I think and I know there's plenty of people who are like, "oh I'm good at everything I do everything". I've done everything for years and I maybe I don't know. I just know for myself like the two procedures I do a lot of is hairline advancement and lip lifts I still learn every single case. And so, I mean, like I did two lip lifts today and still every case, I'm like, Oh, just some little tweak that I changed something that I think like, Oh, that's actually going to heal better. So, I'm doing that multiple times a week and every time getting a little better and a little better and evolving my technique, I, I can do other, I mean, I can do a lot of things, but am I putting that much focus and that much evolution, that much thought into every single procedure? Like, there's just no way. So, I mean, I've done like over a hundred facial feminization cases, and I do think like everyone gets a little bit better. So, I think. One, for marketing, it's helpful to just kind of focus on a niche, but also, I just think the more you do something, the better you get at it, which then kind of markets itself because like if I, the hairline advancements that barely have a scar, I mean like hairdresser has to look carefully, that's great marketing because she might tell somebody, you know, that hairdresser might then. Tell another client. Oh, actually, maybe you've never heard of this procedure, but there's someone in town who does it. And I think those patients are happy and then they tell people who tell those people, I've certainly had a few patients that are on like there is my chin is too big forum on reddit like who knew One of my patients had surgery with me. She's on this chin forum posted her pictures I probably got seven new patients from that. So, you know, so I feel I think having some kind of focus It's just technically better. It's Easier to market and so it's just less stressful. So, I just kind of have a routine where even in the operating room, like, everyone knows this is the instruments. I want this is we do it. Step 1, 2, 3 so it. It helps take some of that extra mental load off of us too. Catherine Maley, MBA: It also opens the door to premium pricing because nobody wants to be the guinea pig. And if you have such a specialized, especially this facial feminization that's, well, that's a tough decision to make, you know, you're, they're going to transform their face, their life, all of that. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? They don't want to be number one. They want to be number 101. Regina E. Rodman, MD: No, I think about that. Sometimes I have these moments where I just kind of step back from my life and I'm like, It's crazy, most of these patients, I meet them online we do an online consult, they think about it, make their decision, and of course they're looking at my photos and probably follow me on social media, so they're kind of getting to know me in the background as well, but we meet one time online and then they will travel, fly here to me, we meet the, I usually, for out of town patients, I'll do my post op the day before so they come in the clinic, and we can go through the plan, et cetera, you know, all the, the pre op stuff. I just think, wow, so this person spent an hour with me online and then flew across the country on faith, and I'm going to cut their entire face open. And they're just going to hope it all works out. And, and it does, it does. But sometimes I just step back from that and I'm like, man, that's, that's kind of crazy that people just trust me like that. And, and also really awesome that like people trust me like that. It's a huge honor and responsibility to be in charge of all of this. Catherine Maley, MBA: But that's what branding and marketing does it builds up that trust before they even meet you And they're I mean think about it. They're able to trust you and they haven't even met you That's the power of Instagram and also branding on the website. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? It all goes together we're going to wrap it up now, but tell us something. We don't know about you. Regina E. Rodman, MD: Some people know but my second job passion second passion I would say is super into fitness. I used to compete in CrossFit. Now I just do a little a little too busy, but still do a lot of fitness stuff out of my garage. And now I, I do some functional bodybuilding. I do a little bit of pole dancing just for flexibility and mobility. Super fun. It's like a great core workout. Do some weightlifting, still do running. So, I always, I always have something going on after work. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, your Instagram, you look like you're quite the power lifter, like you are buffed, yeah. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice? Regina E. Rodman, MD: Thanks. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, good for you, yeah. Alright if anybody wanted to get a hold of you how would they do so? Regina E. Rodman, MD: You can always, on the Instagram, send a direct message. We check those multiple times a day. The second-best way, or the other good way, is through my website, which is... FaceForwardHouston.com or DrReginaRodman.com. There's contact us button that also gets monitored multiple times a day, even on the weekends. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you so much Dr. Rodman. It's so nice to get to know you better and I'm sure I'll see you at a conference again soon. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Rodman's transgender niche practice. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Rodman you can reach out to her website at, FaceForwardHouston.com. A big thanks to Dr. Rodman for sharing her journey on developing her transgender niche practice. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Transgender Niche — with Regina E. Rodman, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#dubaicosmeticsurgery #houstoncosmetic surgery #dubaiplasticsurgery #houstonplasticsurgery #dubaifemaleplasticsurgeon #dubaifemalecosmeticsurgeon #transgenderplasticsurgeon #transgendersurgeryspecialist #transgendersurgery #cosmeticsurgeonfortransgenders | |||
| Adding an Associate — with Ivan Wayne, MD (Ep. 224) | 22 Sep 2023 | 00:42:12 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and adding an associate. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Adding an Associate — with Ivan Wayne, MD". When you've been practicing for a while, it's almost inevitable to entertain the idea of scaling your practice without working harder. You figure out how to bring in more revenues without doing more work, while decreasing the pressure of you being the sole revenue generator. This allows you to go on vacation, share expenses and plan your exit strategy. The obvious solution is to bring on an associate to fill in the gaps and help you scale. However, that can be fraught with drama if you don't choose wisely. In this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interviewed Dr. Ivan Wayne, a facial aesthetic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Oklahoma City, OK. Dr. Wayne has been in practice over 25 years and was ready for change and setting himself up for his future. So, he added an associate and then bought and built out a space with 2 ORs so he no longer had to use outside facilities. We talked about adding an associate that included:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Adding an Associate — with Ivan Wayne, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and adding an associate. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. And I'm really excited about today's guest, who knows all about what to consider when adding an associate. It's Dr. Ivan Wayne. He's a facial, aesthetic, and reconstructive surgeon. in private practice located in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and he's been there over 25 years. He's got a focus on facial rejuvenation, rhinoplasty, revision rhinoplasty, as well as preservation rhinoplasty, which I'm going to ask more about. So, Dr. Wayne attended the University of Iowa Medical School and completed his internship, as well as residency at the University of Rochester in New York, and he did his fellowship at the University of Florida. So, like everyone else, he's been around. So, Dr. Wayne serves on several committees of the AAFPRS, where he's also a frequent speaker at medical conferences, which was where I met him and trains other surgeons on his innovative techniques. Welcome to Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Wayne. It's a pleasure to have you. Ivan Wayne, MD: Thank you. It's good to be here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Terrific. So, let's just start with why facial plastic surgery, why not some other specialty? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: So, when I was a teenager at some point, I don't remember how old I was. We had these things called books that you read because we didn't have iPads or the internet or anything. And I read a lot of books and my father who was a, a former professor of French literature and very book obsessed, love to go to used bookstores and. One day he came back with a book all about plastic surgery. And I thought that's kind of cool. It was obviously directed at the consumer, but had information that about different procedures. I probably was 14 at the time. And I thought this was fascinating. I thought I want to do that. I've always been interested in doing things with my hands. I love to build, to create, to think, envision, and then, and then put it into. Into action by making something. And to me being a surgeon or especially a plastic surgeon, would kind of fit right down that road. My parents were super excited, yay. Want to be a doctor. And so, they were very encouraging about that. And I happened to train at the Uni, or my medical school was at the University of Iowa, Iowa. And as a medical student, the exposure I got to plastic surgery was the plastic surgery department. And then the Department of Otolaryngology at the University of Iowa was very strong at that time, especially in craniofacial work, left lip and palate, rhinoplasty, pediatric deformities and reconstructions. And I remember between the two rotations as a medical student, the plastic surgeons seemed like all they were doing was dealing with horrible bed wounds and pressure ulcers and tissue, big tissue flaps. While the otolaryngologist, we're doing these really cool facial reconstruction cases, cases. So, I'm like, I want to do facial plastic. So, this is cool. That influenced my direction to become an otolaryngology resident, and then to do a fellowship in facial plastic surgery. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, that's fantastic. Were you the first surgeon in your family? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Yes, I, I am and was, yes. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, well, you have a young son. Maybe he'll follow in your footsteps. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Maybe. We'll see. My daughter, more likely, she's the artist in the family. Catherine Maley, MBA: So interesting. So, everyone's got a journey from fellowship to solo practice. What was yours like? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: So, I did my train, as you mentioned, University of Rochester, Vito Cotella, who you probably know. Of course, of course. He was very influential in my upbringing from early residency to selecting a fellowship. He's, was kind of a model for what I envisioned doing sometime in the future, you know, have this palace and a surgery center and all these incredible clients and everybody was in awe of what he did and, and still is. I ended up going to the University of Miami for my training, and I trained under very famous Dr. Robert Simons, you've probably met him once or twice, very strong-minded person about our academy and service, and then Richard Davis is at the university, so I had Kind of a dual fellowship, private practice, saw the boutique side, and then I saw the university side. And I always kind of assumed I was going to at least start out at a university because it made sense. And I happened to be lucky enough to train in 2000 in 2001, which September 11 occurred in. And that dramatically altered my trajectory because All the job opportunities that I was looking at suddenly kind of dried up and there was a very like narrow pool to pick from afterwards because I think everybody was terrified and people that had businesses at the time slowed down significantly. So, I had a job opportunity at the University of Oklahoma. I didn't really know anything about Oklahoma or the university, but I did know the chairman Jesus Medina, who, ended up meeting at some meeting during the interview process and everybody thinks he's the greatest and he is the greatest and he was very influential in recruiting me. I didn't honestly think I would stay long term. I needed a job and I knew I wanted to do something at least to keep my hands working. Having lived for a year in Miami beach and loving the water, it was very hard to leave. But I ended up at the University of Oklahoma and moved in 2002. And that's where I've been ever since. Catherine Maley, MBA: Just out of curiosity, did you find a wife in Oklahoma or did you have to recruit a wife to Oklahoma? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: No, I met my significant other here in Oklahoma. Yes. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. I'm thinking that'd be a hard sell, you know, like, frankly, I had never been to Oklahoma until I met you. And I loved it. It's just not on my radar. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? You know, it was interesting. Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, it truly was. I mean, it's just not, I mean, I knew about the Merr building bombing that occurred. Yes, me too. And I kind of had recollections of reading about the Dust Bowl. And that's about all I knew about Oklahoma, frankly. Do you like it? I do. It is. I have friends on both coasts and I'm on little group texts and I get a lot of complaining coming from the east coast and the difficulty of running a practice and the people and I'm always like, I hate to brag, but I love our patients. They're so nice. People are so nice. I saw this little meme of life in Oklahoma. It's to pick-up trucks pulling up to a four way stop sign and instead of One of them trying to race across. They're basically offering, Hey, go ahead and go. No, no, you go. And literally they're having a fight about letting the other one goes first. I mean, that's the attitude around here. It's, it's super positive. It's a great place to run a practice. I haven't had all the problems with recruiting great employees. Staff has been great and people are nice to deal with and great place to raise kids. So. Catherine Maley, MBA: I will I'll, I will agree with you when I was there, they were the politest people I've seen in a long time because I'm in California, whatever but it was just, you're right, it was, it's a very friendly kind of place, your staff's so friendly, usually I have to train that into people, in your case, they're just really nice people, yeah, I, yeah, I get it. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: It's in the water or something, it's just the attitude around here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, so are you still doing any reconstructive and if you are like what's your percentage of recon versus aesthetic because that's always a balance. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Two years ago, before I recruited my junior associate, I was doing probably, by days of the week, about 35 percent reconstruction and the rest was aesthetic. Now, since Dr. Rhodes has joined me, I, I'm probably down to less than 5%. It's kind of by request, because I've been in Oklahoma City practicing, I'm, I'm starting my 22nd year I, I'm well known, and I get texts from, you know, a doctor will text me, hey, I've got this relative, this friend, what can you, of course I'll see them, I mean, I'm happy to. I tend to get, you know, the super challenging cases still come my way, and so I do. Enough to, to kind of say that I still do it and then I still like it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And talking about your associate, how did you go about that process? He's a super great guy, younger, any, any pearls there because everyone struggles trying to get the right match to come into your practice. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: It's not easy. It absolutely is. I, I think the, the road to partnership is littered with failed relationships and, and not, not with me, but with colleagues around the country. I mean, I, I saw it everywhere that I went. So, Dr. Rhodes was a medical student at the University of Oklahoma. So, I knew him from, you know, I was at the university until 2016. So, I was aware of him then. He was a resident at OU. Worked with me so I had direct experience. I observed him. I, I was interested because he wanted to do a fellowship and he's got family in Oklahoma City. He's not moving. So, he's coming back one way or another. And I don't know if I was 100 percent on board about bringing a partner on. But the timing, you know, sometimes the timing forces you to make the decision. And I'm glad that I did because I knew his personality. He's, he's extremely easy to get along with. He's friendly. He's nice to people. He doesn't seem to have an issue with me calling the shots, which is, you know, if, if you want to be the big fish. You can't join another big fish. So, he seems to be fine with his role and he's thriving in it. I hope he's happy, but I knew him personally. And then Ed Williams was his fellowship director. And of course. He confirmed everything I knew about Dr. Rhodes, that he was A, going to be very successful, he's very nice, and, and everybody loved him, so. Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, that's another double-edged sword, because, you're absolutely right, the two alphas in the jungle aren't working well, however, you definitely need them eventually to step up to be the alpha, because you want to step down, or step out. So, you know, it's almost like, gosh, can, it, there's just a balance there, and just trying to figure out, Are they willing to put their ego aside for now to learn and grow and be patient? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? And then, like, is there a plan? Like, is that the plan for you two? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, so, I mean, he's very fortunate that, you know, he started out and all he's done since day one is facial plastic surgery of one form or another. I joined a university and you join a university, that's not always a protected role. I, I did by requirements and general otolaryngology until my, my practice filled up because they had the need for it. So, he, he is very busy and growing. It, the only frustration I sense from him is I think he wants to do more cosmetic, but you know, it's very hard. You, you're You know, people, patients are needing to entrust you to take their face apart and put it back together again, and he's really young looking, so it'll come with time. I reassure him, he, he seems okay with that, and, and he's developing his practice. In fact, I'd say he's probably done more cosmetic in the last two years than I did my first two years. Catherine Maley, MBA: Very good, and remind him of that, because there's a lot of impatience in today's world, and it takes time. to do all of this. So, so you also have a brand-new building and it was gorgeous and beautiful and any tips on how you pull that off or how you found it? How do you negotiate it? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, so I had been on the lookout for a building probably for six to seven years prior to when I found this, maybe five years. You know, I, I basically did a lot of driving around and keeping my eyes open. It's weird how you can drive by things a hundred times in your daily. Commutes and things and not notice it. But when you have your eyes on buildings that come up for sale, what do I need? I mean, I looked at former bank buildings. I looked at there's a there's a big developer on the north side of Oklahoma City who's built out malls and strip malls, and he had a building for sale and How much money he wanted for it. I'm like, man, I could probably buy the land and build. And so, I started looking at that. I, I talked to a hospital developer about partnering up and, and looked at numbers. And I, I kind of knew roughly the areas that would be good because I'm in Oklahoma. We're about four, just under 4 million, Oklahoma, the greater Oklahoma city areas are a million and a half'ish. So, I get a draw from a really big area, so I want it to be easy to get to for my local clientele, and then for all the satellite stuff within 50 miles and then a hundred miles of me. So, being on one of the beltway or close to the beltway was important. Catherine Maley, MBA: The traffic that goes by your office is amazing. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: We have a ton of, yeah, it's a very busy, it may actually be, I don't know the numbers, I mean, I've seen it on, it probably is the busiest segment in our area. So, I mean, my business is not a drive by business, but being able to find us easily and that sort of brand recognition, I think, Does amount to something. So, the, the group that the hospital development group I had been working with, I knew they had attempted to buy the building that I'm in now. It was an existing building. I had never paid any attention to it. I didn't know what the heck it was. The fact that somebody who's much smarter in real estate wanted to buy it. They, they low balled the owners. It was a trust told me that if he, if he put an offer in. It's worth looking at. So, I started to get serious and looked at it and 18, 200 square feet. I mean, that seemed pretty big. It, it, it was basically a big open shell with a lab in the back. And then I started the process of looking at it. I can't remember did I did I hire my architect before I probably in the process because we had a really long like a 90-day due diligence phase to all of our inspections and all that and I'd already, I think I had got my architect selected. Because I've been around for so long, I know people and I. No, a local contracting company, kind of friends of mine run it. And I said, you know, who would you recommend for an architect? And they gave me two names and they told me the one they really love. And I met this guy and he's, he's kind of an old cowboy driving an old pickup truck. And he was very down to earth and I loved his approach. And, and I could just tell that within five minutes. I was going to like working with him and his team and it turned out to be great and we had gotten a couple of bids or I got a couple of bids from different firms and you know there are these really bougie kind of architectural firms and it was shocking just how much of a difference there was in the price. And then I looked at some of the things they had done and the one that I selected had done. Things basically kind of right along with what I'm doing. So, so yeah, that's how, that's how I found the building. You know, it's tough to buy a building because you need a lot of money. I mean, they want a lot of down payment. Luckily, I've been kind of buying some real estate projects on the side as I've gone along some small rental units and I was able to leverage the collateral there to start the building project to buy the building, which I did. Catherine Maley, MBA: Any kind of building mistakes you made that you wish you could redo or overdo or I mean, yeah, redo. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: We know we really didn't have any big ones. I think, you know, there's there're so many little minutiae issues with access to parking lots and setbacks and handicapped spaces and buildings a little weird because. 20 spaces are in front and then 60 spaces are in the back. So, we really had to kind of juggle things, but we, we worked at all. I mean, there's a few things I spent too much money on because it wasn't really hyper focused like, you know, commercial doors with little, I mean, you can spend 5, 000 per door on these little release mechanisms. And I got extra ones I really didn't need, but that's okay. I mean, it's, it's, you know, we, we own it now and the building is nice. So, No, I was very fortunate. No, the only thing bad that happened was timing because COVID 19, right? Literally, I had almost signed off on the bid to start the project. And then COVID happened, and we went dead in the water for like four weeks. I think I actually started, I was one of the first doctors in Oklahoma City to start working again because I was still doing reconstruction, they let us do cases. But I didn't know if we were going to have a practice again like a lot of people, you know, I didn't know are we all going to go bankrupt because we have no revenue, but that of course didn't happen. The opposite happened. But because I delayed the pricing went up maybe 40 percent or more, the same exact bid between pre COVID and post COVID. Fortunately, my company that I selected had really good connections and they got it done really right on time. It just costs a lot more. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it's absolutely gorgeous. Your O. R. was beautiful. You have two suites. It's really spacious. I'm, I'm used to city. Practices and I just I hope you appreciate the space you have because it's really unusual, you know. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Yes, I'm very fortunate that we had so much space to work with and I, you know, I had different options I could have taken over the whole building. And originally, we were set to do 6000 feet with ours. I checked in with some people who have huge facilities and they said you can never build too big. I mean, that's what everybody told me, whether it's Ed Williams or Vito Quintella or Mike Nayak, who are all friends and who have large, you know, you will grow into it. So, I thought I'm going to build a little bigger. I'm going to make room for myself and hopefully Well, it's two of us now, two physicians, and I have room for two more for us all to be not stumbling over each other. I think that will be the optimal practice size once we're totally matured. So, we're fortunate, but it works great. Flow's good. We can get a lot of patients through in a day. You know, I only see patients one day a week. I have six rooms and it just really helps to kind of stack the rooms and all I'm doing is walking from room to room and that's what I want to be doing. So, it's, it, the efficiency is definitely worth it if you can do it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and regarding marketing, is the is Oklahoma City zoning, are they okay with outside signage? Because you just have such incredible traffic there. Can you put big signs up that say who you are? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: We got one of them up yesterday and then our, our other one is built and a crane's going to attach to the building. So, yes and yes. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I think that's. Just the best marketing on the planet. You buy it once and it lasts for a lifetime. So, congratulations. Now that you have all this space though, I think you're you know, surgical is always the main focus, but what are your feelings about the non-surgical side? Are you trying to grow that? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? You don't care. If you do care, how much do you care? Because now you've got the space to put in equipment and, and, you know, non-surgeons. Are you heading in that direction or what's your plan? I'm very well. So, I've had P. A. S. In the past work for me as physician extenders and doing injectables, and they haven't worked out financially for us. Ivan Wayne, MD: Never busy enough to justify the cost of the practice. You know, there's so many medical spas in Oklahoma City, and it seems like one opens up a month and You know, every two months, one closes. It's just an absolutely saturated business. I talked to people who have successful med spas and they are not like super excited about recommending people do it. And so, I, I haven't really, I mean, I have branding already in place for it, but it's the people that you need and. I haven't got those people yet. There's a nurse injector who's been in Oklahoma City as long as I have had a great practice and when her plastic surgeon retires, we'll probably bring her in. I think if I get enough of those people who are just focused on it, because I don't have the time to sell people The services we offer, somebody's got to do it. And focused nurse injector or PA is who you need to do that. And I just haven't found the right people, but I just hired an RN actually last night, who's a former patient of mine, young been out of school for like nine months, she's super enthusiastic aesthetics and I'm like, I'm going to train her from ground zero. And we're going to kind of go at this from a different direction. So, I'm slowly building that, I have friends, I have a very good friend who's, who's got the oldest med spa in Oklahoma City. And when I talk to him, it's interesting. It, you know, he's, he's kind of, there's some nuances to making money with it. It's less just like opening a restaurant. It's a very difficult business to be successful with. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it's a great idea to either start them fresh, although be careful, usually at the year two or three, just like an associate, they start thinking they're bigger than their bitches and they want to go out on their own. Or the person who already has a really healthy non-surgical practice and she needs a new home and she knows she doesn't want to run it herself. She knows how hard that is and have her come on and bring everyone with her. Because one thing about facial plastic surgery. It's very difficult to build a relationship quickly because when a woman needs a facelift in her 50s and 60s, she'll, she'll look at what she's done in the past. And often she's been using fillers and injectables and lasers to try to hold off on surgery. So, it's helpful to build that relationship ahead of time, but I wouldn't bring people on unless they're really good at cross promoting you. In their work, you know, like all arrows should be pointing to surgery, you know, you know, any staff tips on you have a great staff, any challenges there or what's been working for you? How did, how do you keep them motivated? And how do you find them? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: People come into your lives and people leave your lives and leave your life and you just hang on to the good ones. I, my, my manager, Mariah, who you've met is the most focused, devoted people. She had worked for me in the past. We had a very toxic manager for a while and it took me a long time to figure out where the drama was coming from. And once I got her out of the office. People started coming back and Mariah is one of the people who came back. So, I, I give people a lot of room to do their job and I acknowledge good work when I see it. I don't, as you know, I don't like micromanaging people. And I very, you know, I, I like to think that I have this sense about people within five minutes, if they're going to work and I can very quickly tell when people are not going to work and, and I've, you know, we've tried. You know, in what I call it the modification. You know, you have a meeting and you need to do these things and we check with, you know, when people stop working out, they stop working out and that's okay. I mean, there are there are better spots for people elsewhere. People change we all change and sometimes what worked great in the past won't work now and there might be something they'd rather do than be with me so. Catherine Maley, MBA: What's been the biggest challenge of growing a cosmetic practice in your, in your mind? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: You know, within our practice, probably the social media and the marketing side. I mean, that's probably been the most frustrating thing to me. My practice is largely word of mouth because of reputation and, and I know you're a big fan of it. And, and You know, I see what young surgeons do who have a lot of time and energy, and some of them are not that young. You know, you look at Mike Nyack's social media presence, I can't duplicate that. I'm just, I'm not big about promoting me on social media, but I've kind of slowly kind of inching into it. I, I, we have a great person that we've hired who's actually A cinematographer who makes movies. I mean, that's his background and I think he's got a very different visual sense. And I think finally we're getting somewhere with that high creating high quality content. So, that's been the big challenge we've had outside firms. Those have been absolute disasters. And I know other people have had similar experiences. You, you send them money and, and they just, I feel like reprocess the post they've done for 10 other practices. There's no, there's no unique identifiers. Nothing draws you in. You know, I, I look at my Instagram and Facebook feed and it's like, It seems like every post from all these different med spas and practices are slight variants on the same thing. There's nothing interesting. I scroll right by them. And I think to break out of that is not easy and I don't necessarily have the answers. But yeah, that's been the most challenging. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'll tell you the social media that you've done recently is Amazing. You had right off the top, you had two patient video testimonials from deep plane facelift patients who were out six months, you know, on the, just, if I were to critique, I would say do it sooner than six months because they're not as excited. They like, it's like, that's how they look now. So, the, a lot of enthusiasm isn't there, but it came, it was so heartfelt and you were very natural. And that's what we women want to see, especially when we're going to rearrange our face. How are we going to feel about this at the, you know, how's the end result going to be? How was the journey? And those were very authentic and very nice. And the women, your Oklahoma women are just darn nice. They're just really nice people. And they're both just, yeah, I'm so thankful for you. And they, and they just were authentic. And I would just keep doing more of that. And same thing with the rhino. I love when you show, it's so difficult to show how good you are unless you can really prove it tangibly, so when you do a really difficult rhino, rhino case, and then you show what, and you didn't just show what their nose looked like before, you explained the challenges of it, and you could see Oh, my God, there's no bridge. The nostrils are off that, blah, blah, blah. And then you see them live and then they're saying, Oh my gosh, this was the greatest thing. I just wish you could get them to cry. We love rhino patients crying. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: We had crying yeah, when you cry last week, I mean, just sobbing. And I'm like, are those good tears? Yeah, we, we try to get you know, I do like the one-week reveals are great. And Luke has been, our media guy has been great. I mean, he loves to film. So, it's, it's natural for it. And I absolutely agree. That's where I'm focusing on. That's, that's what patients want to see. I don't, I'm not really good at that. And I'm terrible at dancing. I don't think that's going to bring anybody in people when, when it really comes to where the rubber meets the road, and you're about to think about having your nose taken apart or your face taken apart, who do you trust to do it, you know, what do you want that doctor to be, I hope they want them. They're going to pick somebody like me who's a little bit OCD, a little bit obsessed when I'm doing my stuff, very focused. That's who I am. And I hope it comes across in our videos and our media content. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, it absolutely is. Please keep doing that. Back to the business side, you and I recently were at the Mac conference in San Diego. And you moderated the best panel I think I've ever seen in my 23 years. And it was called the aesthetic practice think tank. And you had some big, heavy hitters on there and the topics were amazing. Do you want me to refresh your memory or do you want to just regroup or like, or review what, what happened there? Cause I, I couldn't take notes fast enough. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: So, I created a private Facebook group for myself and colleagues, I don't know how long ago, maybe 10 years ago. Oh, no kidding. Because what, you know, remembering back you leave fellowship and here you are facing this incredibly daunting task of building a practice and challenging patients. And I remember I'd put calls into my fellowship director or, or to people I trained with and, and they might get back to you that night or the next day. And it's just like trying to get feedback was really difficult. And I thought, wouldn't it be nice if we could just post something and get, you know, just make it easy. I have this question. What do you do? So, it's interesting, you know, there's like a top 30, you know, members of this group who are like on every post and You can put down a question about a patient. Hey, I had this complication. How would you manage it? Like I had a patient I did a facelift on two weeks ago and he had the weirdest thing happen. His, his jaw like dislocated the day after surgery and he's calling me and I've never seen this. So, I post the question and a video and I got 20 responses, including several people, very seniors. Like, yeah, I've seen it. It goes away in a day or two. And it did. And I was like, I've been doing this 22 years. I've never seen it before. So, and then we also have business challenges, you know, hiring people. What do you do about, you know, non-disclosure just, so what I did, Randy Waldman had been aware of this page and likes it and said, Ivan, you really need to do a panel at the aesthetic meeting that I do. So, I. Kind of thought, all right, I'm going to pick the top five or six topics and I put a little poll and ask questions and it covered things like employee embezzlement. How do you fire patients, private equity, entrepreneurship, adding nonprofit centers. Catherine Maley, MBA: Private equity! Ivan Wayne, MD: And, and of course, as I suspected, one hour was not enough because I had some, you know, I'm not going to name names, but I had some big names in our field and there's a lot of big egos, which is not a bad thing, but it's hard to stop talking when, you know, we've got like, you've got like 60 seconds to respond and like 15 minutes later, but it's all good stuff. So, I just kind of let it roll. And if we do it again, we'll probably do it for longer, but it was just. Top topics that have come up in our in our private group and sort of sharing them for whoever was interested and people seem to like it. Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say just if you just picked one of those topics because everyone loved to talk about, you have talkers there, so it's even just one topic going deeper than trying to go shallow with five but that was amazing. It needed a lot more time. Absolutely. And so, you have this Facebook group. It must be a private group, right? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: It's a hidden private group. We just, we want it to, it's just like the same people that I hang out with at meetings, but we're pretty big because people find out about it. We, you know, if you're one of us, we let you in. It's, it's just facial plastics because I've got some very opinionated members who like to. Talk about facial plastics issues and sometimes we'll mention other specialties. So, I don't, you know, I, I don't want to exclude, but I also, it's our membership and I asked, you know, is it just us? And everybody said, yes, just us. So, it's just like the people that I would run into one of our meetings, you know, at dinner, we talk about stuff. So, it's, it's, but it's right there and any 24 hours a day, you can ask a question and you'd be surprised. Somebody will answer it within five seconds, literally. Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, I'd love to be a fly on that private wall. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, we're very, yeah, it's, it's, it's like Fight Club and we don't talk about Fight Club, so. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I have to ask about preservation rhinoplasty because I've been around for a long time and I swear I only heard about it, what, two years ago, I think when Sam most mentioned it on my podcast. What is with the preservation versus the revision rhinoplasty? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: In a nutshell, there should, you know, it's been around almost as long as open structure rhinoplasty or whatever it is you want to call what I did for 19 years. Preservation, the way I describe it to patients, instead of cutting your bump off, I'm going to bend it straight or bend it and bend it from an 'outie' to an 'innie'. And that's what you're doing. You're doing maneuvers below the actual surface of the bridge of the nose to release support of cartilage and bone. And you're just kind of pushing it into the nose. It was difficult to learn. I had help from some of my European colleagues and getting started with it. And Dean Toriumi was helpful. And now I've pretty much converted everybody because I think the results are just that much better to my eye and my aesthetic. It's a more natural result. I've had a hard time convincing people because, you know, we, we spent all this time perfecting a technique and, you know, if you've been doing it 15 years and your results are good and your patients are happy, why change? And there is no reason to change. I'm just a perfectionist kind of person. And, and with my craft, I want it to be as good as I possibly can. And I've been super happy with. how they've turned out. The patients seem to like it. I mean, they don't know the difference I kind of described to them. And I've only had a couple of patients actually say, do you do preservation? And yes, I do. And it's not being asked for, but when I became aware of it, I thought I need to learn about this because what if the sweeps the country and everybody you know, the rhinoplasty population is young and very, and very social media savvy. And there are groups on Facebook and people are posting stuff and who, what doctor do you use and what technique and it's, it's an uncontrollable murmur of activity. And I wanted to at least be knowledgeable about it in case that's the only thing that people want to have done. And that may happen at some point. I don't know. It hasn't yet. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, from a marketing perspective, that could be an excellent differentiator for you. The issue is you have to educate patients on the word preservation because most have never heard of it and they wouldn't know the difference. However, if that could make you different than all the other rhino guys who don't do it and you, you parlay yourself into the expert because you know this innovative technique that others don't or just they don't just don't talk about it. I think that's, that could be a good marketing strategy for you. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: It's, it's on the list of YouTube videos that we're going to shoot. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, okay, very good. So, we're going to wrap it up, but what advice would you give anyone coming up, you know, who's been in business, I don't know, 10 years or less. What advice would you give them? Or what have you learned that was super helpful for you and maybe today in today's world? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: You mean for a young surgeon coming out? Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't want to say just a young surgeon, like, just because you've had a very successful track record, and you're doing a great job, and you've grown, and you've had an associate that makes sense, and you've had no major trauma, trauma what, like, what advice would you give others to just ride a smoother path through this world of plastic surgery? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: You know, focus on quality with whatever you do and produce because that's the ultimate differentiator. If I had one, when I evaluate, whether it's a piece of property, a device, a service, I look at, at my, my, you know, I once had, I have a friend who's, who's built businesses and run businesses. And he told me, you know, the value of a business is whatever it would cost you to build the same thing across the street. So, I always remember that, you know, when, when you evaluate, when you create a valuation on something, don't be too greedy because It's only worth what somebody will pay and they'll pay a little, a little positive on top of what they could do it for themselves. So, quality don't be greedy and then barriers to entry are important for me. You know, I do facelifts, I do rhinoplasty. There's no med spot in Oklahoma City or anywhere in the world that's doing that. That's my barrier to entry. It's something that's very difficult to learn that limits your competition. Every time a device gets kind of thrown or pushed towards me, I kind of let, oh yeah, anybody could do this. You can teach your staff to do it in 30 minutes. Right away, I'm not interested because that device will appear in 10 med spas around town, because if it's that easy, why am I going to bother offering it? It just doesn't make sense. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay. And then the last question, tell us something we don't know about you. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: Let's see. I have an alter ego identity called Surgeon Sculptor. It's on Instagram where I, where I do my metal sculpture and metal crafting. That's entirely self-taught. I did, well, not entirely. I took a class in Las Vegas during one of the meetings on some of the techniques, but I have a shop and I go there and it's, it's a great way to unwind. And I consider it cross training because I do these very detailed welding techniques that are very hard to learn and it's a whole art and I'm not particularly good at it but I get better and it's very refreshing to do something that is highly focused and difficult. And if you do it just right it's perfectly beautiful if it doesn't you throw it away and start over and I can't do that in surgery so it's, it's my therapy and as I have more time sometime in the future, I actually want to pursue that more and have that almost as a side business in a way. Catherine Maley, MBA: I had no idea. I'm going to go check that out on Instagram. And you can always fall back on that when you're tired of doing plastic surgery. It's great to have a hobby, by the way. I've noticed a lot of surgeons don't. I know I don't either. And you just focus on one thing. And I, you know, when you want to slow down, it's like, well, what would I do if I didn't work? You know, good for you. You have something you'd want to do. How would others hear about you or if they wanted to contact you, what would be the best way? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate? Ivan Wayne, MD: They can email me off of the website WFacialAesthetics.com. That's probably the easiest thing to remember. Or by my email, it's ivanwayne@icloud.com or @hotmail.Com. That tells you how long I've been on the internet. Hotmail, but yes. Catherine Maley, MBA: I gave up my Hotmail account with my AOL account. Yeah, it wasn't helping my branding. So, thank you, thank you Dr. Wayne for coming today to podcast. I really appreciate it. It's a pleasure. I hope to see you again, again at the next meeting. Actually, we have one coming up. Are you going to be at the AAFPRS in Vegas? Ivan Wayne, MD: I will so I'll see you there. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, I'll see you there. Ivan Wayne, MD: Thank you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on adding an associate. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Wayne you can reach out to his website at, WFacialAesthetics.com. A big thanks to Dr. Wayne for sharing his experience on adding an associate. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Adding an Associate — with Ivan Wayne, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticsurgeonassociate #plasticsurgonassociate #drivanwayne #ivanwaynemd #okcplasticsurgeon #okccosmeticsurgeon | |||
| Born in Iran but Made in America — with Kevin Sadati, DO (Ep. 223) | 15 Sep 2023 | 00:58:40 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Kevin Sadati, MD was born in Iran but 'made' in America. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Born in Iran but Made in America — with Kevin Sadati, DO". Life is filled with daunting challenges when trying to get 'made' in America. They can be physical, psychological, financial, emotional, and personal. They can be hoist upon you unexpectedly or self-induced, especially when you are pursuing ambitious goals, like getting 'made' in America.....or both. The saying, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger", literally rings true for this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest. Kevin Sadati, DO runs a very successful facial plastic surgeon practice in beautiful (and competitive) Newport Beach, CA but it was a long and dangerous journey of eventually getting 'made' in America to get there. Dr. Sadati grew up in Iran and was 19 when the revolution broke out, so he was drafted to go to war as a medic (with zero medical knowledge and 3 months of training) and put on the front line for 2 years, doing what he could to help wounded soldiers. He survived that experience but lost 70% of his hearing, but that did not stop him from his goal of becoming a US-trained doctor, even though he did not speak English, did not have money and did not know anyone in the States. This is a must listen-to interview about courage, resilience, character, and problem-solving skills needed to get where you're going to get 'made' in America. And, this was one of the most inspiring interviews I have done to date. Visit Dr. Sadati's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Born in Iran but Made in America — with Kevin Sadati, DOCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Sadati was born in Iran but made in America. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's special guest is Dr. Kevin Sadati, who was born in Iran but made in America. He's a facial plastic surgeon practicing in lovely Newport Beach, California, which is a big part of the theme of being 'born in Iran but made in America'. Now, Dr. Sadati specializes in facelifts and rhinoplasty and perform surgery in his state-of-the-art in-house surgery center, and non-surgical procedures are performed in his 'aesthetic lounge', which is integral to the topic of him being 'born in Iran but made in America'. I love that name. After graduating from UC Berkeley with degrees in Eastern art and history, he did wound healing research at UC San Francisco, and he got his medical degree from the Midwestern University in Illinois. Then, Dr. Sadati continued his head and neck training and general surgery at the Medical College of Philadelphia, which is also part of the 'born in Iran but made in America' story. And his fellowship plastic and reconstructive surgery in Seattle. Now, he's a member of many associations and he's a speaker at the medical conferences where I see him often. And since Dr. Sadati never lost his love of the arts, he continues to study oil painting and sculpting as a way to hone his skills. And I love his tagline. It's, "the hands of a surgeon with the eyes of an artist". Dr. Sadati, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Kevin Sadati, DO: Thank you so much for having me here, Catherine, and I appreciate having me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, how did you get from San Francisco to Philadelphia to Seattle and then to Newport Beach? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Before I got to San Francisco, I want to say I was born in Iran, but made in America. So, when I was 23, I moved to San Francisco Bay area. But before that, after graduating from high school there was a war going on and all the medical schools and. Universities were closed and they basically drafted every young man to go to the war. And I would not anywhere in my mind wanted to be a surgeon or medical field. I was a total engineer building stuff and I was home to go to Become a major engineer. So, what happened, they drafted me, and I ended up to, to be a medic. I don't know why, they said, you're going to be a medic. And they thought me like, a little medical thing for, You know, three months, not much, and then they dumped me on the front line, and then suddenly my eyes opened, and I'm like, holy, and then you have to take care of so many wounded soldiers, and serious trauma, not just like a little laceration, and quickly I said, you know what, I need to get my game off to take care of these soldiers, and Do a better job at what I'm doing. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I just have an ambulance, a driver, and I have to take care of this seriously wounded soldier. So, I started reading and getting literature and trauma books and medical books. I had no idea the terms because I was born a mathematician. I became very interested and started studying and helping those soldiers, so after two years being on the front line, when I was done, then I was able to get my passport. Because they won't give you a passport or a driver's license unless you finish your service. So, I got my passport and I got out. So, I told my parents, I'm not going to stay here. I got to go for my higher education. So, I'm leaving here. So, I packed on my own. Went to Germany. Stayed there for 3 4 months. Went around. I didn't like it at all. Nothing bad about German people. But I didn't feel like this was going to be my home. So, I said, you know what, I'm going to go to the land of opportunity and that's where I put my eyes on and. Finally, I got a student visa to come to the United States and started studying. No language. I had barely spoken anything. So, 23 signed up for community colleges English as a second language. So, I studied there and also, I took my classes like prerequisite for pre-med because then I changed my mind to become a medical. So, I started, you know, math stuff I was good at. I didn't have to put any effort, like physics calculus and stuff. I was taking those classes and I was taking art classes, which was biology. I had no knowledge of that. So, I started taking those along, taking English classes and after well, I studied English for a couple of years before I went to community college. Then after two years of community college, I applied for University of California at Berkeley. And I got full scholarship to go there and get, actually I studied in molecular cell biology and nearest and study, double major. And I got full ride and I'm very thankful for them that they realized who I was and they loved my story. And they knew I had a mission. So, that was lovely. So, I studied, I finished my education there. Then I wanted to... I had no idea how to go to medical school. Honestly, I always asked. One of the things that I recommend for people that they don't know where direction, what direction to go in this country or any country, all you have to do, ask. There are a lot of people out there that they're willing to help, especially in the United States, honestly, this country is named. The resources are infinite. Like, there is, there is so much information and so many people are willing to help you out. Along, I had no, I had no connection. Zero connection. All I had to do, ask, I asked my professor at community college, how do I go to become a doctor? He goes, first you have to go to university. I'm like, how do I go there? He goes, like, these are the applications. And he wrote me a letter of recommendation from Berkeley. So, that's how I got in there. I started asking people, how do I go to medical school? They said, CAMCAM. So, you know, I asked people. They helped me, they guided me through, navigate through my life. And I just followed their direction. I worked hard. I worked. Well, I went to school. All along from 8 to 4 p. m. and from 5
I also did research. In the laboratory and I figured out I could finish my MCAT and application and I got to medical school, four years in Chicago, wonderful experience, great friends I made there. I got some direction; I did a lot of. Let's say rotation during my last year of medical school. So, I knew what direction I want to go because you can eliminate things that you don't want it. So, I knew I don't want to be a COVID 19 because the lifestyle was like chaotic. I didn't want to be ER doctor. It was not matching my lifestyle and the way I... That is my life. I knew I'm going to be a miserable person but I like surgery but I didn't know what and what kind. I just kept my mind open and I, I went to different locations and I finally found my love. With the ear, nose, and throat, head and neck surgery, very complex and very artistic in some sense. I got accepted to go to Philadelphia College of Medicine, PCOM is called and there, I got a chance to, again, when you go to ENT, Ear, Nose, and Throat Head and Neck Surgery, there are different variations and that's a specialty there are, you can do ear surgery, specializing in ear, specializing in rhinology, specializing in voice especially the head and neck reconstructive surgery or facial plastic surgery. So, it's not like one thing, it can be broad or it can be subspecialized. So, since I was, you know, I like art, I like painting, and I took classes while I was in school. So, in Philadelphia I took some painting and sculpting to redevelop my skill in a different setting, so I was taking side by side. While I was resident, I was taking classes at night at art schools for honing my skill, and I gravitated toward more facial plastic surgery. Then I finished some of my training in facial plastic surgery in Philadelphia, and I went to Seattle to further develop my do a fellowship to get better at my cosmetic procedures rather than reconstructive. Thank you. And thereafter well, I met my wonderful wife in East Coast before I moved to Seattle, which we get married. She was working at NIH. She was a fellow Ph. D. and studying immunology. And we were introduced through two different friend of ours. And we met, and then we got to know each other. Both from Iran, but I just met through friends and... Wonderful, super smart gal, beautiful, so we met and we got married, literally, and we moved to Seattle as a kid, right away. I'm like, that was like, not a good idea, but it was just an accident, I would say. Which my daughter now, just we dropped her off at MIT yesterday. So, not a bad thing, so I'm glad we kept her. Catherine Maley, MBA: And then how'd you end up in Newport Beach? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: So, after I finished my fellowship in Seattle, I intended to stay there because the, my program director wanted to hand me his practice himself, the practice to me. But my wife said, no, no, no, no, this, this environment. Makes me very depressed. The weather was like gloomy, raining, confusing for us. Because, you know, you barely see sunshine. I said, no, we can't develop our own land here. We just got to, better, if we, either we go back to East Coast, or if you want to go back to San Francisco, Bay Area that you were talking about, how good it was, we go over there. So, I applied for a lot of positions in Bay Area, but there was not much of facial plastic interest. And I said, you know what, I'm going to try Southern California. Boy, I got ten different interviews. So, I got interviews with a group of plastic surgeons that they didn't have facial plastic surgeons. So, I joined in. I worked with them for two years. Then I got recruited by Lifestyle Lift, which was a basically I would call a facelift machine. They were like a huge company with advertising on TV and they're bringing that like to satellite offices all over the country. And they recruited physicians who were doing facelifting to do a mini facelift in office settings. So, for me it was a great opportunity because I got to do thousands of facelifts there. And I honed, I created my own technique. Not to be just a mini facelift that they intended to do for people. Because people want to go facial rejuvenation. What they show on TV and what they were asking people to do was two different stories. They wanted the bare minimum, cheap little face procedure, little skin, and but the people that were advertising on TV, they were like full on faceless. So, it was kind of deceptive in my opinion, but I was, I had an obligation in my heart that said, you know what, these people are coming to me, they want facial rejuvenation and not... Not just looking at the price, what they pay. So, I developed my own technique, and I'm really producing great results. But after a while, you know, it became like so many, like pushing you to do more and more surgeries in a day. Some surgeons were doing six surgeries a day. I'm like, this is like a melt shot. Like, I can't do more than three. I count seven. A. m. to 7 p. m. I do three, and there were some people doing like six cases, and then they were done by 5 or 6, and I'm like, wow. So, I, it just, the culture became very toxic in corporate, so I, in the middle of recession, it was end of, like, 2010, I, even with bad, bad economy, I got out and I said, you know what, I'm going to start my own thing. Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, I know lifestyle live was such a big deal the minute I turned 50 in my mailbox was that packet and it was brochures 'before and afters' testimonials. It was a, it was a band aid, not a bandage. It was a. Not even stitches like it was so…it was those people knew how to talk to women, but I don't know about the result of that, but they were saying literally like no general anesthesia, no stitches, no, no downtime, no, and I'm like, this is a miracle. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? I mean, I know better because I'm in the industry, but so many consumer women. Went for it. It was a big deal until it imploded, but good, good experience on your end though, huh? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: No, no, no, it was great. I mean, you know what? In life, I never say I had a bad experiences were stepping stones. Absolutely. Even I hated it at the end, and I was like feeling sorry why the hell I did that in my life, but now I look at it and say, if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be efficient. I wouldn't be Understanding the anatomy better. I would then take the different steps to create new techniques. So, yeah, it was terrible, but again, like more, I. Turn the bad situation. So, that's my, my thinking. I always even if I'm in the worst situation ever, I try to look at how I can do something that I, I can exist in that situation. makes sense or not. So, even that was bad. Even I had my patients on TV because I was doing really a procedure than what they were advertising. So, they were, a couple of my patients were on TV for, you know, their advertisement had this infomercial actually. So, with all that, again, it was. stepping stone for me, but I left in the middle of a financial crisis coming to a new practice. I got one room. And plastic surgeon in Newport, nobody knew of me, I was very low key, I started, I said, you know what, I'm going to start producing some good results, let the results talk. I'm not going to do huge advertising or anything, let people talk about it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Were you also doing recon to bring in some money? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Yeah, so I, I started doing obviously some cosmetic procedure faces. Some of my patients found out about me where I was now referring their friends. But again, it was not enough to sustain so I was from very high income. I was making very good income. Suddenly dropped to almost new. So, I started doing some ENT stuff. Also, even I was not comfortable doing it. I didn't want to do it. But, hey, you're running a medical practice. It's a business. You have to feed your employees. You have to sustain your system. So, I continued doing some work for other surgeons. Your ENT on the side. While I was developing my business. You know, you got to pay for website development. You got to pay for... Certain things that, you know, you don't know exist until you put your hands and make your hands dirty and you go, Oh, I'm missing a fax machine here. That cost this much. So, initially everything is cost you. And developing business is very costly, but you have to be patient. You got to develop gradually. Cut the cost down and then don't overspend because you don't want to run out of money. And then go slowly. So, that's my advice to people who are starting. You know, if you don't have a dad or somebody who can lend you tons of money like me. I was just... I had, I saved some money, but I, again, I didn't want to, I didn't know how this all was going to unfold. You were not easy to navigate. So, I went very slowly to learn what business is. I had no idea about business because somebody else was constantly running the business part of it for me. Whether it was that big practice or lifestyle, I was hands off. So, I had no idea of what it means to have credit card processing, to have insurance. All that stuff was like foreign. So, you start learning and start developing practice, developing a website, a printout, how to write it, what to write. How to describe yourself. All that stuff takes time. So, anyhow, and as you know, in Newport Beach there are hundreds of, around me, there are literally 85 plastic surgeons around me in less than a mile radius. But I didn't feel competition. I didn't want to compete with anyone or get into competition. It's not a competition. The only way I compete... And I see somebody's good, I want to have better before and after results than that person. Otherwise, I don't have anything bad to say about anybody. If their results are not good, well, that's their limitation. If the results are good, I want to beat that result. That's how I think. That's my own shortcoming if I can't do that. So, that's how I look at it. So, I put my head down, start working on myself. Start fine tuning my own technique and... Honestly, just word of mouth, you know, hairdressers, referring people to me other doctors. I wasn't doing any injectables or anything initially. So, there were some, some physicians who had med squad who see my patients and They get injectables and say, who did your face? Oh, Dr. Sadati. Oh, okay. And then they start asking and then referral coming in from them, from her address, from all over. Primary care physician. So, I start getting busy and I said, you know what? I needed my medicine. So, the beauty of the time, I said adverse times, sometimes great times. In 2010, a lot of med spots were going out of business. So, there was a fantastic location, was opening, was already a mess, well, this lady was just wanted to get out of her lease. So, I went in there, and she has some nicely decorated office, and she goes, Oh, I'm on 500, 000 for P. I. I said, Listen, I don't have any of that. I'll give you 50, 000, let me come in. She goes, Oh, what's wrong with this? And then I waited, I'm I said, Yeah, I don't want to pay a rent. I'm going to take this. No kidding. Yeah, I got lucky. I mean, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you have to ask. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you went from 500 to 50? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Yeah. That's amazing. I said that's all I have. I can't come with any more money. I don't have anything going on for me. That's it. Anyhow, gave her 50, moved in. I had to do a little T. I. to make it so specific. To my own way of practice, I created a little procedure room and I started doing those safely. I was doing in office, in my new office because I didn't have a, so became busy. And then I brought injectable nurses. I brought aesthetic on board. And it started getting more and more staff, and I had 2, 500 square feet for me, and it was getting, I was running out of space. And I told my lander, listen, I got to leave I got to find a bigger place. She goes, oh, where are you going? I said, well, I got to find a place. She goes, no, I like you, I want you to stay here. I'm like, you don't have any more room. She goes, what do you want to do? I said, I need more space upstairs, I want to create a little bigger office. She goes, well. I'll, I'll let you have that upstairs. I said, well, there are three doctors up there. What are you going to do with them? He goes, I move up. Landlord moved those three doctors. She created another TI, another office they had. He gave it to them. And she told me, whatever you want to do here, show me your plan. I showed my plan. She goes, yeah, you can have it. So, I got another 2, 500 square feet on the second floor. And then I designed my office that you've seen the photos of it. Is staircase. Catherine Maley, MBA: It is breathtakingly gorgeous. Yes. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Yes. Absolutely beautiful. So, I had a great and amazing architect. I got lucky. I found this guy with Han. Catherine Maley, MBA: I just had him on the podcast. Yes, he's great. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: He's amazing. He's a genius, almost. Mm-hmm. , I would say. In what he does. So, he came out and looked at the place I wanted to do bare minimum changes, keep this here, keep this, put a little staircase, don't worry about it, talk about it. And then, finally he came up with the idea, I helped him do design and all, and then suddenly... You can't have something like spectacular, but it took 18 months to build it because okay. While we're working on the first floor, they were building the second and then we moved from second floor. To the first from first floor to the second floor, they start building down there and when it came to build, to connect the two floors, they had to cut the whole floor and then connect it, build a brand-new staircase. It was not like purchasing from Home Depot, they had to build it. So, it was a huge... Dilemma with the city of going back and forth. I have to go to city, talk to the development department, myself, sit there and just explaining things. So, finally I built it, I built my own OR, that's what I recommend with surgeons who start. If they are able to have their own operating room, they will go 10 miles ahead of anybody else. Because you own your own time. Where a surgery center, you have to abide with the time they have available. They have limited time, limited surgery. If I want to do surgery tomorrow... I can tell myself, okay, tomorrow, with the case tomorrow, we start early, so I push the patients down a little bit. Consultation or whatever. I can do a case. So, if I have an informed, you know, case that I a surgery center, maybe they're full, so you can't do anything. So, one of the recommendations for surgeons, I know it's going to be difficult. What made me successful, I think, in terms of my own way of looking at it, having my own surgeon. Catherine Maley, MBA: Every surgeon I've ever talked to has said, It was the best thing they've ever done. It was painful doing it. . Yeah. The per the permits are a nightmare. And but it was a priceless the time that they did. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Yeah, listen, if it is not hard, it's not going to be good. I mean, you have to pay the price. You pay the price, but you're going to have the trophy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Talking about that trophy, how different do you feel? Does your staff feel? Do your patients feel in an environment like that? And anyone who doesn't, hasn't been to this website, you have to check it out. It's DrKevinSadati.com. Don't go now because you're listening to the podcast, but DrKevinSadati.com. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? The stair, their staircase is exquisite. It's just lovely. How much has that changed your Vision of you and your world and your life well in. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Okay. What it did, first of all, it gave me more space to grow. Yeah. I was able to bring another surgeon on board and I may be able to bring another surgeon. So, you're talking about, if you're talking about business, That's how it develops. The more space you have, the more room you have to grow. If you're in a 1, 500 square feet, how are you going to fit another surgeon in there? There's no way. So, the more space you have, the more you can grow. So, I have one surgeon right now, so I'm doing facial rejuvenation surgeries and some rhinoplasty. And the other surgeon is doing body contour. So, very complimentary. And so, I also have enough space to bring another surgeon on board right now. I have a surgical facility. They can operate here. Let's say if you have, like, each one of you two days a week, one of us, we can go across the street to a, in a surgery center. So, more revenue comes to the practice. And also, you have the staff that are fully trained to do what you want. Not in a surgery center. You go, they do foot surgery. They really do. Laparoscopy, and then you show up, you want to do a face. That's a whole, that's a whole different mindset. So, the beauty of having your own surgical facility is, you train your staff to do exactly what you want them to do, so you become more efficient. So, you're not wasting your time looking for a suture that they don't have. You're not looking for, oh Jack didn't show up today so Joe is here, he's never worked with you, so imagine how that surgeon is Through the whole operation. It's not going to be easy. So, having your own place, having your own staff is hugely advantageous. Having your own surgery center is definitely a must for a surgeon who can afford it, and you know, you got to take risks. The way I look at it, a lot of people say, Oh my god, you spent all this money on the furniture and staircase and the whole Italian... Stuff that you imported from sync to this and that. I said, yeah. Okay. I look at it over 10 years period. I'm not talking about 20 years. 10 years period that I got the loan. Okay. Over this 10 years period. Let's say I spend 2 million for renovation on all the equipment and everything. 200, 000 a year and it's about 18, 000 a month. Nice. That's not much. Catherine Maley, MBA: And look at the benefits of it. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: So, how did the patient... So, that's what I mean. So... When you look small, when you're small, you think small, and then 18, 000, oh my god, 18, 000. But when you have more space, now you have another surgeon, possibly another surgeon. I have nurse injectors; I have a nurse who does lasers and PRP and microneedling. I have a statistician that does facial, and I have other stuff, I have more equipment. That's all. You, you, you attract more individuals coming to your practice and provide services for them. So, that 18, 000 literally is a peanut when you think about it, of what you benefit to get. And you have, I have a place that I love when I show up at work, I look at my office, I walk in it. I feel good. It's not like I'm going, oh my god, look at this carpet. It's still like looking like 1970s carpet. Yeah. So, you know, I enjoy it. And my staff love it. Are patients enjoying it, but I didn't do it to show off anything. I did it for myself to enjoy it and also expand my business, be able to bring other surgeons on board. So, I don't want to work all day. So, I have somebody else also. Working. I'm not working. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, and that's how you scale. You bring on other revenue generators so you're not the only one you know, holding up the whole ship. The do you find that you can charge more when you have set yourself up like this because the patients look at it and say, okay, I don't think he's going to be negotiating with me. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Do you feel that at all? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, initially I thought, okay, well, let me tell you a story. So, my, my project finished. November of 2019. Guess what happened? Pandemic happened three months later. Dear lord, dear lord. I'm like, oh crap. Yeah. Yeah, who's going to show up in my office? We're ready to just like, we had a big party going on. Opening party, a year ago. Pandemic, close the door. Oh, nobody talks to me. Everything went zoom, like this. So, it was funny, the way things turned out to be. But, to be honest with you, yes, the prices went up, but again, having my own storage center, I was able to do not the plain face and necklace. In my own surgery center, where as before, I had just a little procedure room. You can't do deep plane in a procedure room because you can't bring anesthesiologist. Or give IV Sedation, you're not permitted. So, that helped me to grow. Now, as you know, deep plane facelift is a whole different level than doing a smash facelift. So, going from that gave me an opportunity to grow myself. So, utilize... My knowledge and training that I have to do the next level. So, therefore I started doing deep plane face and neck lift. So, that and also working on my social media. Now I have better before and after pictures, more drastic results. Not in a bad way. Whatever I do is natural. I'm not into creating, as I tell people, I'm not here to create a movie star here. I'm just here to create a rejuvenated version of people. I think that way, and I think the most natural way is the best way to represent a person so they look more youthful. Without being changed. So, all that said, I'm able to do that with my deep plank face and neck lift. I'm still fine tuning, constantly learning, and always studying. I want to get it the best it can be. And constantly working on it, studying my own results, and get better at it, and take it to it. Next level. Catherine Maley, MBA: And how helpful has it been for you to differentiate yourself because you are in a crazy uber competitive area? Do many do deep plane down there in Newport Beach and do they do them under local and twilight? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, they, they call it deep plane but frankly it's not a true deep plane. It's a high mass space lift that was popularized. for plastic surgeons for a long time is they call it deep plane, but frankly, they don't release any of these ligaments to go under this mass. They only elevate this mass here, which is non mobile mass. So, this mass is non mobile in this area, which no matter how much you lift, it lifts everything up, but it's not lifting this mass where it's mobile. Whereas a true deep plane or extended deep plane What I do, I release the ligaments from here, here, and the neck area I put under where muscles and nerves and vessels are, deeper. And then lift the whole unit at once in more of a vertical way, rather than going horizontally backwards. So, the direction is more upwards. So, basically, after I release the ligaments from the zygoma, we call it here, the cheek. This tissue, It ends up here. This part, the ligament from here will end up here and the neck, this part, will end up in the back. So, everything goes the direction that was falling. So, now I'm doing a lot of those and people from all over the world, literally, different states fly here. Obviously, I get... You know, 50 percent of state. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Yeah, I've had both and I like the D Plane a lot. You don't get that hockey stick that thing on the side, you know, where you get that, it's a natural feel there and it feels much more of substance. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? It feels like a more structure has been put back in place. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, it's like you're addressing the issue where it's the problem. You know, I did a smash lift for a long time, and I did great results, but it didn't last. I mean, my own technique that I developed, great results. It looks good, but it only lasted four, five, five years. Right. Okay? Right. So, obviously the price range for it is much lower too, but at the same time, I didn't get patients to look weird, and hockey is none of that business, because I created the triple C plaque patient. A lot of people wanted to last longer, so in order to do that, you have to release, you have to do the hard work, you have to go zone and mind blowing, and, and I truly enjoy when I sit down doing surgery, I really enjoy doing it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I have to compliment you on your before and after photos. Not only are they natural, but there are a lot of them and they're all consistent. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? You have the same background, the same views. How in the world, because everybody says to me, Oh, Catherine, the women will not show their faces online. And I say, then how come some surgeons get hundreds of photos and you don't, you know? So, what's your secret? How are you getting those photos? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, honestly, the volume. It's a lot. I mean, I do average five days to four weeks. So, and then, once you have a reputation, once you have per se, you have some notoriety, people want to be on your website. People ask me, say, I want to be on your Instagram. Meaning they wanted a review. Honestly, I don't ask him. I just say, you know, talk to him. And then later on my for consenting for photography and videography. They say, yeah, alright. And then my social media person interviews him. And the photos are consistent. I, I don't like to deceive people from before pictures with no makeup, right before surgery, and then when they all dolled up, they come for two, two months, three months post op and take your and oranges. So, I like to, if they have makeup beforehand, I would allow them to have makeup after-hand. Or if they don't, I would say just, you know, whatever you did for pre op, do the same thing. So, even if you wear the same clothes, if you can. So, people don't get distracted by nonsense of jewelry or whatever you have. Look at your face. So, that's the secret. Catherine Maley, MBA: And the videos, too. How are you getting that done? Do you have a social media person who's really good at directing somebody on video? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: So, I brought the gentleman who was working in construction videography and social media. But I, I helped him to understand what we do here. I help him to, you know, I don't micromanage, but I give him ideas. I said, okay. This is what we're looking for. Think about it. Like, think about what the final results are. And how you're going to interview that interviewee. And then you can and then when you, we When you're interviewing afterward, You bring that idea and kind of match it. If you look at my videos, what they did beforehand. If they smile at the video and then just come next to each other. It's just. Mirror image of each other. So, you can see exactly the same facial features that has been transcribed. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, your Instagram is killer. You have like 205,000 followers. It would you say that's your main marketing channel or is it still your website and SEO? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Where are these patients coming from? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: So, as we all know, things came off. First was yellow pages, and newspaper advertising, and Riviera magazine, this and that. And then became, websites became like the things that you have to have. Now, a website is becoming obsolete, but they are like references. You have to have a wonderful website, a working website, but a website is more local. So, if you have a website, only your server on Google is not going to make you visible in a Swiss server, or visible in Minnesota. You're just visible in Orange County at best. If you're, you know, you're well optimized. So, it's difficult to go out if you're alone because Google wants everybody to be localized. That's, that's the way they're modeled. So, social media gave us another, I woke up to it late. I didn't think of it as a game changer or anything. I thought it was just like, first of all, the young people posting like a photo. Before it was like photos, like sitting by the beach. Like, my patients are older patients, they're So, I was thinking small, that's what it was. And then once I realized, hey, I have Instagram, you know, my friends are older, they have Instagram, so why not? But it has to be... Different. You can't copy and paste somebody else's. You have to have your own taste into it. Obviously, there are people who have millions of followers. They started early. They built their followers and attracted people. Nowadays, it's very different. But, you know, I'm not trying to compete with anybody. I just put my content, I put a little flair of myself into it. But if you before and after pictures are not, I mean, they're not good. No matter what you do, it's not going to grow. You know, you have to have some stuff. Catherine Maley, MBA: And also, how much time are you spending on your social media channel? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: So, it's honestly, it's it, I can't put a quantity. Throughout the day, but if I have patients who said, yes, I want to be videoed, obviously we do video the patient beforehand, my videographer does that. And then during the surgery time, when I mark everything, they video that intraoperatively, that he comes in and video some of that. And then we interview him a day after surgery. So, it doesn't, honestly, if you have somebody who does that for you and you train them that's why you have staff. You can't do it. Some surgeons, they do everything themselves. You can't be good at everything. I delegate a lot of stuff and I have great staff. I'm not a super good business person, but I surround myself with people who understand business, how to interview staffing, and hiring, and HR. I'm not good at it. I'm soft. You know, I can't do that kind of stuff. I'm very soft in terms of HR and stuff. But I have people who do that. I find talents, and I will give them the feel, direction, and I tell them, this is your own business. Take care of it. I don't want to micromanage you. These are the things I'm looking to. These are my visions. But I want you to be creative. I want you to put your spice into it too. Catherine Maley, MBA: What's the biggest challenge of running a practice in today's world? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: HR. Yeah, I hear that. Hiring the right people and finding the right people. I don't know what happened after 10. Well, it was always challenging, believe it or not. But post-pandemic, it seems like all the employees... Melted away. It's just like, where did these people go? It's just like you can't find nurses. You find some people, like they're not qualified for what I'm looking for. So, I compensate myself really well because once I find the goal, I'm not going to let him go. I compensate him, I give him like, even the social media guy, I give him bonuses. If he creates let's say, a video that, you know, there are 10,000 comments in 24 hours, I give him bonus. I said, you did amazing. Obviously, I did the work. He presented in a way that people enjoyed it. So, I give him bonus. That's how I, you know, appreciate him doing that. Or, if, if I see my medical assistant is going out of their ways to take care of patients who just had surgery and have a lot of questions and hand holding, I give him bonus. That's a great idea. Yeah, CLM you know, wants to make staff a part of your practice. Like, meaning they put their blood and tears into it. They would. I mean, they, and they feel that they're getting confidence. People start not working when they feel like they're working more than they are valued. So, I compliment them, I, not only verbally, but also. I, I don't, you know, boss him around. I, I tell him, I'm, I'm a team player. I'm, I'm like Michael Jordan, let's say. If nobody passes the ball for me, there's no way I can score. Yeah. So, it's like a teamwork. I may be the surgeon who produces most here, but again, if I don't have my medical assistant, there's nobody who's going to take care of my patients. If the front desk is not behaving correctly or answering people correctly, I'm not going to have patients. So, I put them on bonus structure. So, okay, if you, people call, and then they convert to a console, I pay you. Because you did your work, you, you stay in connection with that. The individual, you ask them to send information, you follow up with them. If they don't care, it's okay, I'm in consult. Okay, if they don't follow up with that individual, it's going to get lost. And so, it's important to incentivize individuals who work for you so they feel appreciated. That's the way, it's a form of success. You're sharing success with others in terms of... Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well, and it's still a surefire way to get somebody to go above and beyond mediocrity because oftentimes staff today just do the job and you're looking for somebody who's willing to go above and beyond and really be a professional. And honestly, I don't know how else to do it. You have to give them a why. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? And the why is yes, we're a team player and. When you go above and beyond, you're rewarded above and beyond but back to staff again on your website. I see that you can use Spanish and 1 of the issues is I used to find staff for doctors all the time and then they said, well, now I need Spanish and that made it even 10 times harder because now I need somebody with skill and they speak Spanish and they're bilingual. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Have you found that to be a challenge? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, it's…I try to be multicultural so when I hire, if, I mean, they're challenging to find good people, but if they're, I don't look at people's colors or anything, I look at people who are talented. So, I have all different kinds of nationalities, per se, in my, or African American, Chinese Latina all kind of Greek Persians. All kinds of individuals. I have about 18 staff here. So, having somebody who speaks Spanish, I wish I was able to speak Spanish because my Instagram is just like nonstop, like they're asking Spanish questions. And I answer some of those. And you mentioned how much time you put on that? Well, one of the things I do is constantly reading my people commenting. I answer not all of them. If you have 400 comments, there's no way I can go. But if somebody asks the location or what's the cost of the procedure, I have to respond to them. But a lot of them in Spanish, I don't understand it. So, that's one of the challenges. So, I'm bringing AI. I signed up with an AI company that helps you manage your... Social media in terms of translation, although Instagram translates some of that, but not in the messaging. When somebody sends a DM, those cannot be translated. So, using AI to answer some of it. So, I, yeah, I'm on my phone when I'm at home, like nobody's around, I'm just doing that. So, it's a constant. 24 hours, I would say not 24 hours, but it just, it takes a lot of time because it's a part of your revenue making part of your business. And you can't ignore it is, is, is a source that people look at you and they want answers. If somebody asked me what's the cost of this procedure, obviously they have some sort of interest. And if you don't answer them, they're just going to, okay, this guy. Just put a before and after picture out there and it doesn't say what the hell is going on. So, kind of, you got to communicate. It's another one way of, I have a megaphone in my hand and say, Oh, I'm a great doctor. I did a case before this treatment. You have to also hear what they have a lot of time, honestly. Just, I don't have all the time for it. Get help from my social media guy. He's busy creating videos. One of my second managers or operating directors, she answers. We all try to help each other to answer. It's a lot, you know. Each day, like three, four hundred comments. It's difficult to manage, but hopefully I bring it. I brought another person to do that, but again, Didn't have good luck. Honestly, I brought three different people that were not up for the task. You know, they say they are qualified. Again, a lot of people say, oh, I'm a social media expert. You bring them in, poor taste of design, some of them. Some of them, poor writing skill. I'm like, okay, how do you communicate with people? You can't write cos omg, like, you know, you're not talking to your friends. This is business. So, it's, it's a challenge. I hope I find somebody else to bring on board to help me communicate with my Catherine Maley, MBA: That one's kind of a numbers game, trying that social media person. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? I would say that's our weakest link in most practices is the social media person only because generally speaking, they're younger, they don't know the expectations. They don't, they haven't worked in the real world yet, like the real business world. And you're right. You think that they're just talking to their friends and know where this is professional now. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? And they need a lot more direction. And I don't know about the reliability. They don't want to come in. Often, you know, they do their thing. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: And they show up like if I have one show up at noon, you're supposed to be at nine o'clock. I mean, we're going to start at eight seven a. m. Nine o'clock. This is like bankers off nine to five Noon, where are you? Oh, just like a party last night and get up. I'm like what? Catherine Maley, MBA: If it's any consolation, it's a very common situation there. So, the last question, so we can wrap this up, tell us something very interesting we don't know about you. Although I think you coming from Iran through a revolution is fascinating and I'd love to hear more about that. What else you got? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, I'm very outdoor person. I like mountain biking, road biking, snowboarding. And enjoy traveling, and those are, and also, I paint, and I don't have time to do sculpting, because that takes a lot of time, but all this stuff, those are things some people know about me, some people don't, but I, I try to balance my life By dedicating certain time, like, I get up early in the morning, 5 o'clock, and I want to be healthy. I want to be around my kids to see my kids graduate from college. At least, maybe I see my grandkids. So, I just turned 60, and I want to be healthy and in good shape, hopefully. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, congratulations. I think you're just are doing a heck of a job and you can always fall back on the art and sculpting if the plastic surgery doesn't work out. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? Kevin Sadati, DO: Thank you. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a joke. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'?Kevin Sadati, DO: Alright, we'll get trained to go to a different office. Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't think so. You It's DrKevinSadati.Com. The office is absolutely lovely. The before and after photos are amazing. The social media is. Spot on. I'm not just coming from me. I'll just looking at inside, you know, looking into your inside. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in America'? You're doing all the right things. So, congratulations. Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, thank you. I appreciate it for having me. And it was really a pleasure talking to you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Thank you so much. And please, if you feel like it, please give me a nice review so we can spread the word. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Sadati was born in Iran but made in America. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Sadati you can reach out to his website at, DrKevinSadati.com. A big thanks to Dr. Sadati for sharing his journey on being born in Iran but made in America. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Born in Iran but Made in America — with Kevin Sadati, DO".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drkevinsadati #kevinsadatido #newportbeachplasticsurgeon #newportbeachcosmeticsurgeon | |||
| Buying Your Mentor's Building — with Behrooz A. Torkian, MD (Ep. 222) | 08 Sep 2023 | 01:02:38 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying your mentor's building. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Buying Your Mentor's Building — with Behrooz A. Torkian, MD". Typically, after residency, you do a one-year fellowship where you get invaluable hands-on surgical experience from other successful experienced surgeons. You also get the "behind the scenes" look at the business and marketing of how you run a successful practice, which is also invaluable. And, sometimes, you get even more. Such as, buying your mentor's building. I recently interviewed Dr. Behrooz Torkian, a facial cosmetic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in uber-competitive Beverly Hills. We talked on the topic of "buying your mentor's building":
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Buying Your Mentor's Building — with Behrooz A. Torkian, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty in the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying your mentor's building. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's guest is Dr. Behrooz Torkian, and he's a facial and reconstructive surgeon (who's well-versed in the statement of "buying your mentor's building"), practicing in uber competitive Beverly Hills. Now, Dr. Torkian specializes in rhinoplasty and facial plastic surgery, as well as reconstructive surgery, and he performs his surgery at the historic Lasky Clinic, and we're going to talk more about that. Now, he attended Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, and then his specialty training in head and neck surgery at the University of California, Irvine, where he also participated in the prestigious fellowship in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery conducted by the AAFPRS. Dr. Torkian, it is a pleasure to have you on Beauty and the Biz. It's been a while getting you on here. Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Thank you so much. And yes, I've been looking forward to this, I think for three years now. I think the first time we connected regarding the podcast was during lockdown, during the COVID lockdown. And at that time, I said, yes, let's do it. But I don't know what came up. I think what happened is that we were trying to figure out how to open the office again. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Well, now we have more to talk about, you know? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Now we have a lot more to talk. A lot has happened since then. The zoom boom is real. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes. So, what I would love to do. And the part I like so much is your journey from training to entering the real marketplace. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? What was that journey like? Because it's usually a fairly jagged road, or was yours a straight shot to Lasky clinic? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Oh, no. Okay. So, Lasky Clinic was a dream a, a, almost like a, kind of like a golden egg on a pedestal type of thing in, in facial plastic surgery. Pretty much any head and neck surgery program that has a facial plastic surgery program associated with it or within it has, has, Some conversation about, Oh, well, you can always go train at Lasky clinic. That would be just the ultimate. And so, that's what it was like back then. Hopefully people still view it that way, but I'll tell you, my history. And I've been listening to your podcast and some of my colleagues on the podcast is not that different actually from many of my colleagues in, in head and neck, facial plastic surgery. Many of us get into this, not knowing that we want to get into this. What happened with me was very similar to most of my colleagues, but I got into medicine not thinking that I was interested in plastic surgery. In fact, that wasn't, I, it was something that I thought was frivolous and it just didn't make sense. And why would you want to go through a procedure for something like that? Just didn't know at that point, I wasn't enlightened to how much we can help people with the skills that we have and how important of a role we do play in their lives. But the initial reason I went to medical school was because I wanted to practice within my limits of knowledge of, or of my passion of microbiology and molecular genetics, and I wanted to apply molecular genetics to pediatric oncology. That was, I was going to be a pediatrician, oncologist, and I was going to learn how to trick viruses to make cancer treatments, which are now finally happening about two decades later, which is why I didn't go into that field, of course. But many things happened since then, you know. Few people hold your hand, you get the right kind of influences around you, you get the right kind of mentorship, and then someone stops you along the way and says, son, you've got good hands and you need to use them. And so, that's, that's kind of how you get into the surgical realm from medical school. A lot of people don't go to medical school thinking that they want to be surgeons either, they just don't know, you know. And so, as a kid, I was always very manual, took a lot of little tiny things apart and put them back together, turned radios into... into hands free cell telephones and, you know, all kinds of cool stuff like that, gadgets that I thought I was inventing. And I learned again and again, and I still do today, that no idea is ever really had by me alone. And it's never the first time it's been had. The idea had a life of its own and it's been around. And so, never invented anything that was brand new. But when I, when I, was at Vanderbilt, we had an amazing head and neck department. And I sat in on a couple of lectures where I learned a little bit more about the intricate anatomy of the head and neck, loved it. And that was my initial passion. And then I saw some of these kids who were getting reconstructed with their cleft lips and or burns at the corners of their mouths. And sometimes with big scalp defects and I saw some of the big grotesque looking tissue expanders and those things just really piqued my interest in plastic surgery. And so, as, as someone who loved the anatomy of the head and neck, I stuck with the head and neck training and was one of 13, usually there's 2 percent of each class that go into head and neck surgery. In our class of 100, 13 of us applied to head and neck surgery that year. Super competitive. Almost everybody got a head and neck. surgical Residency a few didn't and then they did it later in different ways But many of us went into facial plastic surgery So, I have colleagues all around from north Carolina to here to la that went to medical school with me to practice the same thing It's just been Yeah, it's been really interesting. And there must have been some really strong influences and mentorship at that time. And so, that, that started me in the head of neck. And then at UC Irvine, my chairman, Roger Crumbly, who I, I adore to this day, I should be in more contact with him, love him. And my other amazing mentor, Tim Kelly. Really held my hand through this process and I just wanted to be like them, you know, that's that was what I wanted to do and they were both facial plastic surgeons in our head and neck program. It's kind of rare to have a head and neck Surgery program have a facial plastic surgeon as their chairman But Dr. Crumley did that and he was one of the few in the country that ever did it And it was just an amazing influence to have him around us. It was it was wonderful and so that's how I got into it and then Lassie Clinic was just a dream. I thought, you know, I could train here. I came and interviewed here for a fellowship with Dr. Kamer. I'm now sitting in his office. So, for those of you that can see this on video, these windows here used to look on Dr. Kamer and that, that, I never dreamed that I could have this. But I came here as a fellowship applicant. And at the time I was kind of geographically strapped to the Southern California area. My wife was a medical student at UCSD and then she got her residency at Cedars Sinai and I was at UC Irvine and we were commuting from in between and so on. And so, I thought, you know, I told Dr. Kamer, I think this is the place for me. I grew up here. I grew up in Sherman Oaks. Around the corner, I have family in West LA and we just had a baby and we want to be near the family and he said this could be a great place for you. But I still ended up at UC Irvine for, I won't say what reasons, but it had a little bit to do with me and a little bit to do with Dr. Kamer, probably. But I, I still ended up at UC Irvine and did my fellowship there. And then years later, I was practicing with a dermatologist that I befriended because. to, to be frank and to make this story a little cuter. My grandmother met him and wanted to set him up with my cousin. Oh my god. She said, she said, you're perfect for my, for my granddaughter and I want you to meet my granddaughter. And in, in the process of trying to get them hooked up, she introduced me to him because she said, you guys are both young doctors, you should know each other, should be friends. He just moved here from Ohio. His name is Don McRobbie, and she said you should be friends. And I said, great grandma Thank you So, we made friends and he and I had this dream about at that time Paul Nassif and Dr. Amaron were together and we thought look these guys did this thing where they had a facial plastic surgeon and dermatologist These are synergistic fields. We had this dream of making our Center Better than theirs we were going to be the skin and face center and we were just going to kill it And so, we set up shop not far from here. I can see it from this window at the corner of Beverly…Wilsh— Beverly Excuse me, Wilshire Boulevard and Lyndon Boulevard I was there doing fine. We had a couple of subtenants. He had the lease on it. Things were not going really exactly the way we thought with the skin and face center, but you know, we were doing okay I was getting building my practice so to speak and people were coming — Catherine Maley, MBA: Let me interrupt you for a second Were you a partnership or were you a 50 50 partnership? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Were you just renting? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We were discussing all that but we ended up just Him renting and I rented from him and we were loosely associated and so it didn't really become that center that we thought So, I was free. I didn't have any real ties except for a sublease which I was a handshake It was wonderful for me because I was very, very, flexible and mobile And I got a phone call from Dr. Frankel, who is now my business partner of I would say 12 years now, a business partner of mine. Maybe less time than that. I was a tenant for some time and then became business partner as we bought into the surgery center. Catherine Maley, MBA: And explain who Dr. Frankel is. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: So, Dr. Frankel is one of Dr. Kamer's old fellows. He has been at the Lasky Clinic now for if I've been here 15, it would be 25 years. He and Dr. Stephens are the two main surgeons in the building, and I'll explain real briefly what the building is before getting back into that story. Don't let me get off track on that story. Okay. So, Dr. Kamer built this building in the 70s. It was already built, but he turned it in the 70s, late 70s, into a surgery center. It was probably, by report, one of the first freestanding surgical centers in Beverly Hills. And it's downstairs from where my office is now. And he saw patients upstairs, and he had a lot of space. It's a 10, 000 square foot building. It has a lot of little nooks and crannies in which things can be done, both clinical and non-clinical. And he had his fellow doing certain things in certain areas, and he had his post op patients go into certain rooms downstairs. Which were not really efficiently used, but they were very posh, and it was just wonderful, wonderful for his celebrity clientele. And so, the building gained a lot of clout with his clout, with his popularity and his fame. He treated a lot of celebrities, he did amazing work, and he was a nice person to all of them. And so, they really admired him, and the community really admired him. And he's still around, and we see him every once in a while. And he trained a lot of people in the area. Many of the Surgeons, plastic surgeons in this area, the facial plastics are, are pretty much, again, a stone's throw away from us or what they call disciples of Cameron, but they were trained by him. And so, we had, we had a tremendous respect for all of them, obviously. And so, down the line, when he was retiring, He left part of his space open and Frankel and Dr. Andrew Frankel and Dr. Leslie Stevens, who is a general plastic surgeon that does all body work, including face work, were here as his tenants. Because towards the ends of his practice, he had them here as tenants, and they were using the operating room too, and there were at times other tenants as well. So, when he left, there was some space open in the building, and Dr. Frankel and Dr. Stevens were here on their own, and they had some other tenants for some time upstairs here. And they had a space downstairs, which was a separate little nook that was on the west side of the building, opposite of where I'm sitting now, and had a beautiful window shape, kind of round shape window like this, and an entrance on its own. And they were trying to figure out what to do with it. Previously used to be the fellows, what they call the fellows office, or what was the post op room where he would remove the bandages day one, and then go back into surgery. And so, what they called me about was to see if I wanted to. move in and use that space. They were trying to find a tenant for that space. But when I got the call from Dr. Frankel, I said, Oh no, I wonder what I did wrong. I hope I didn't say something to a patient that got misinterpreted. And then they went back and said to Dr. Frankel that I saw a patient of his and didn't say nice. I said, Oh my God, I wonder what happened. So, answer the phone hesitantly. But I said, hi, how you doing? What's going on? And he said, I need to talk to you, but I want you to come over here, here and have lunch. We need you to see something here. And I was like, wow, here I go again. I'm going to the last week clinic. Like, I wonder what's going to happen here. So, I sat down with them. We had no lunch, but we had a conversation about that space downstairs. Shortly after I moved in, I didn't have much. I was running a tight, tight practice. It was me and one employee. We were sharing one of the other employees with Dr. Murabi at the other office. And so, I had just one person and me and a bunch of boxes full of Restylane, Botox, Juvederm, and some charts. And so, it was really simple for me. I packed it all up in the back of my BMW and drove over. It was like that. It was that kind of, that kind of thing. And we started practice here in, it was 2000. nine, three years into my practice, and it's, you know, been steady growth, steady growth since then, since then, I bought into the surgery center, and as a loosely connected network of practices, we're not partners in our practices. None of us work for each other and none of us have any financial tie in our main practices together But we own the surgery center together the three of us We've had other tenants here that have had part ownership in the surgery center before But at this time, it's just the three of us and we're hoping that our other tenants would all introduce in a minute will at some point be able to buy into the surgery center too as they get busier because they are paying into it all the time anyway. So, it's, it's one thing that we think is, is best to have as many benefactors as beneficiaries in the, in the, in that practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: As long as you can all get along. Absolutely. But let me ask regarding staff, do you share staff? Like, are there more than one receptionist or does everybody have their own receptionist and their own coordinator? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? And how is that, how does that work? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We each have our own receptionist, our own medical assistants, and our own coordinators. I have a few more employees because I have a little bit more space than they do. So, I, I was able to kind of sprawl out a bit more. I have two so called physician extenders, or a nurse injector, an RN, and a nurse practitioner who does lasers and injections as well. And I have a practice manager who helps me to oversee all, all the aspects, all the different parts of the practice, including so we have You know, as, as the revenue centers or the revenue generators, we have the nurse practitioner and the, and the RN and myself that are creating revenue. And so, it kind of got a little bit harder to manage for me and, and just the coordinator. And so, we have a practice manager too. The other two have a few employees. They have a coordinator and a front desk person, and sometimes an MA. And that's, and that's all they function with. And, and we don't really mix together except in the lunchroom and in the hallways. and on our Christmas parties and so on. The surgery center has a receptionist. And that receptionist works downstairs because the foyer or the entrance of the building, it's almost like a shared communal living space, almost. So, when people walk in, sometimes it's a little confusing. Are they here to go to the surgery center, which is downstairs? Or are they here to see one of us? We're all upstairs. Or are they here to see the tenant of the corner office where I used to be, which you have to go outside to get to. So, it gets, it gets a little confusing. So, we always have. Someone down there, but that person is technically a, an employee of the surgery center because they are the surgical, surgical schedule coordinator for the surgery center. So, they're the ones that receive all the requests for surgical schedules from us and from a handful of outside doctors. They use our surgery center. It's about five of them at the present moment and they coordinate our schedules for us. So, we're all very separate and all of our finances are separate We don't really mix that way and we don't really balance patients around unless there's a need to if someone needs a second opinion or if they want a breast augmentation and I think Dr. Stevens is the right guy then they get sent there. So, we're really very separate but we own the surgery center together and operate the surgery center together and For some time, we had some good revenues because we had some insurance paybacks that were not bad for some period of time when we were doing the rhinoplasty, for example, that had septum deviations and so on, but we are now a break-even entity and we are just basically always just making, making just on our, on our black line. We're never in the red. We just kind of bounced around between red and black and are usually just on our black line, which is kind of nice. Catherine Maley, MBA: But when you say that the convenience of it is priceless. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Priceless, priceless, we do have a handful of outside doctors and we try to prioritize their schedules because we know they're coming from outside and they have to drive here. Sometimes they walk here which is really nice, because we're not really that far from each other. But if they're coming here from outside and we know they have to get back to their practice and to their normal, ordinary, usual state of business, we prioritize their schedules. But for the most part, if I want to schedule cases on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, I can. If I have a VIP that wants to come on Saturday, I just have to ask and someone will volunteer and come in and they'll get paid extra and we'll do it. And so, that's, that's kind of how it works for us and it's really, it's very priceless to have that. It's also, from my perspective, from a safety perspective, Really important to me knowing that I can run downstairs, check the facial nerves, check for hematoma, make sure the skin in the tip of the nose is doing okay, and all that before they go, it is really wonderful. It's, it's So, much better than getting a phone call from a nurse and then getting on FaceTime and trying to figure out what's going on with the patient before they're discharged. Or before, for example, one of our aftercare facilities picks them up if their blood pressure is going up and down. I can be here and I can help coordinate everything and free. And that's a, that's a really nice safety perspective for us. And then so down the line, how many years later can't even or even I've lost track of it, but down the years are flying by the years are flying by things are going great business is building and I got another call from Dr. Frankel and I see him down up and down the hallway every day. We see each other all the time. We actually. because the surgery center is an open concept, kind of like our offices are here. I can actually go into his room and say, good morning. How's your case going today? Great. I'm going to be next door. Great. And then we bounce things around ideas around, even sometimes while we're in surgery, he says, Hey, Bruce, come here and take my friends. Call me Bruce. And that's kind of our, our colloquial language here. He says, Hey, Bruce, come take a look at this. What would you do with this thing? And sometimes I'll call him, same thing. And we were able to have this camaraderie and we've elevated our, our practices together that way. I hope he sees it the same way. He's ten years ahead of me in practice and ten years older than me. But, and we real, we really do all benefit from this and some of our newer tenants and some of the other outside clients of our surgery center really benefit from that too. And so, down the line, you know, as things are going so great, he calls me and he says, hey I need to talk to you about something. Dr. Kamer wanted to sell the building. And because I have first right of refusal, he told me to make him an offer. And I said, awesome. Did you? And he says, yes. And he said, but I, but I think I want you to join me. And I said, well, what about Dr. Stevens? He's been here for so much longer. He said, I asked him and he didn't want to do it. We don't know why, but you know, maybe he already, maybe he couldn't at the time, or maybe he already was starting to see, cause he's 10 years ahead of Dr. Frankel. He's starting to maybe see where he may be kind of phasing out too. And he didn't want to get strapped into something that could be a longer-term project. And so, the two of us bought the building together. I won't disclose the percentages, but his is a lot more than mine, but that's the way it works because it was his, his baby and he's been here for so much longer. But for me, it was a no brainer. And I said, you know, if you can own this thing, you will have, it was definitely a no brainer. You will have the stability knowing that someone else isn't going to come take over and kick me out and change everything that I love about where I practice. And the people with whom I practice, the staff in the surgery center, the anesthesiologist that service our surgery center, all this. everything. It's a really nice place to come to work. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a cash revenue generating asset that you'll want forever. I'm hoping you bought it somewhere around 2008 when all hell broke out with real estate and it was good price? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Compared to now, it was still a good price. Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, it, it must have appreciated dramatically since then. Right? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We believe it has we try to maintain our building impeccably, not only because we're here and we practice in it, but because we want to make sure that it maintains that value and continues to appreciate and value. It's really. it's really a landmark of the area. It's, if you see it, it really stands out. And so, we, we feel obligated to it in that sense to keep it up and maintain its value. And you know, you know, naturally when you're a business owner, when you're a, when you're a, a Real estate owner you're always thinking about your rent rolls too because that's how the banks and the outside world are going to value that That asset as a as a practice or as a business of its own it's not necessarily land value plus improvements like it is for a home for example, but you know as our rent roll continues to increase because we're increasing our own rents and we have more tenants that we add and so on. It, it does help to kind of boost the value of the building as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: is the point when that other doctor's ready to retire, will he then sell his part of the building to somebody else? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: And then who wants to invest? Well, we haven't had so much discussion about that yet, but I would think that at that time, it would be much of it to my discretion at that time, but probably would be either me buying him out or both of us selling completely and just everybody going. If he retires and I may just go somewhere else. And cash out on my part of it it's not something that's been really fully hashed out But you know in my mind I always thought, "I'll buy him out and I'll sell Parts of it to whoever wants to be here and can hang in for the long term"; because I'd love to see this Continue to be what it is Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the good news is you have options and that's what everyone wants. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? So, you're in very good shape. Now, rumor has it, you bought something else. Can you, can you talk about that? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Yes. Well, it hasn't really gone through fully yet. So, it's a bit premature, but I can talk about it because we, we, I have my accounts open. I have my malpractice. Hopefully in place by the next few days and so on, but, you know, I, I've expanded as much as I can here and I've always wanted to continue to expand and have different sources of revenue. And you know, we always thought about other, other pieces of real estate and so on. And my wife and I my wife, my lovely wife, Adrian, you deem, who is a. Internist and obesity specialist who also is a subtenant of our space here. Oh, She and I have had many discussions about okay. Well, what can we do? you know, we have to have something that's going to have us have given us some form of Inflow of cash when we're not actually working or you know That doesn't necessarily have to do with us with our own sweat and tears so to speak and so you know that it's It's a tough thing to manage. I know the medical business and I know the medispa business as I have been a medical director for a medispa before. And so, I was tipped in by the attorney who actually does our contracts as a medical director for the other medispa. To a business that she works with and said is someone I know and she wants to retire and by the time you Are able to publish this this will have gone through but so many spa and you are Belinda wonderful nurse practitioner She's a doctorate and nurse practitioner. She is a Council member of your Belinda. She was a previous mayor of your Belinda. She is just a Both beautiful on the outside and inside person who has tremendous skills and she's a teacher. So, she's one of those people that you just want to be associated with. Thankfully, she thinks the same about me. So, when we discussed. potentially me buying her out so that she can move on with her plans of retirement and having her exit plans in place. She plans to be out of the business in about a year and is giving us that time. She could have retired tomorrow, tomorrow if she wanted to and, and probably did want to, but she's giving us that time because not only does she want to see that the practice, the business goes to. Through the transition properly, but she also wants to make sure that her employees have The jobs that they have now and continue to enjoy the benefits that they have now and continue to work the way that they are And I promised her that as well and so we plan to be closing within the next five days So, we have this, this thing on the, it's, it's a tiny little place compared to Lasky Clinic, but it is, I believe, in that area, a powerhouse. There are very few many spa types of practices, not even any plastic surgeons over there. So, I think there's one or two and they don't necessarily have the best. Will of the community necessarily. And so, a lot of people are going outside of the area for their plastic surgery needs. So, for me, it would be not only a revenue center, but also a referral center for me. My plans are to be there once a week for the beginning, because That's very lofty plan, but maybe once every other week to begin. It's hard to get out of here, but my plans are to be there at least somewhat for consultation purposes So, that I can make it easy for the community. They can gain my trust and they get to know me a little bit and they don't have to drive out here to do it and then from there, hopefully we'll be able to just have a, an easy, easy system by which when the injectors are working and they see something that they know they can't handle with injections that they know is just not going in the right direction that they can, they can speak to and be sort of like mini coordinators or pre coordinators for a surgical treatment that patients can come here for. That's our goal. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, to get things moving, though, if that NP is that well known in that community, you can live off of her transference of credibility. If everyone loves her, all she has to say is you know, Dr. Torkian's the guy to talk to, and hopefully she's a good referral source for you to get rolling. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: She's already been referring patients. Nice. And what I can see is a few have rolled in but what I can see is that she is Tremendously influential in the community and I knew that going into this It it's part of the goodwill of that business that practice And part of frankly what I'm paying her for and I'm so thankful for her being such an easygoing and just gem of a person she's just made this so easy. I know she's itching to get out, but that's not a reason to make it easy She's selling her baby. Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, and you know quite frankly if she happens to need a little facial refresher or maybe a bluff or a little mini lift and you could do that for her. She'd be a walking talking testimonial for you big time that year. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We haven't crossed that bridge yet but does she need anything? Is she looking good? I think she's really pretty. But I, but I know she can point out a couple of things that she wants corrected. I know that's kind of the way it always goes. Catherine Maley, MBA: I just want coordinators who have had a facelift done by their surgeon and they've tripled their conversion rates. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? It's just a no brainer because now they're not selling anybody, anything. They're not pushing. They're just telling their story about what they went through and how great they feel. Just so easy. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: You know, the coordinators here. So, I have, I have my coordinator, Martha. We're the user met before. Yes, she's lovely, but before and we have our practice manager Magda and we have our main receptionist, but she's, that's, that's a, not a nice term for her because she's so much more than that. So, we called her the front desk manager, but she didn't really love that either because she said, you're trying to make me feel better about this. And I said, no, you're just so good at this. She just really handles that front desk amazingly. Catherine Maley, MBA: Can she be the client concierge or something? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: She can be the client concierge. I like that term. But I know what she's going to say. She's just going to laugh at me again. Because that's the relationship we have. But all three have had upper blood surplacities with me. And of course, they get injections and stuff too. They've all had upper blepharoplasty with me. And so, that, that helps, that really sells, but they're not old enough yet to need the facelift. We're getting there, but quite frankly, you know, in our, our industry, and you probably have experienced this seeing other practices that you work with, we have access to a lot of stuff and the non-surgical stuff. As limited as it is, it's good. A lot of the non-certical stuff is very good, but they're limited, but together they add into, add up to something sometimes really good. So, Martha and Olivia who have both had, you know, when I was playing around with InstaLive threads, and I don't love to do that anymore, I did one yesterday, but kind of reluctant, it was just the right person for the right reasons at the right time. for her. But in general, I don't really love the threads anymore. I think that you can get a much better result from a surgical lift and it's way more, way more worth the downtime and the money that you spend, but we've done those on them. They've had all therapy. They've had the microneedle needle radiofrequency treatments. We now have virtue RF, which I'm a PR ambassador for. They they've had reporters come in and we do, we do their PR with them. And I'm very thankful to have that as well, if they're listening. It's Virtue RF by Cartessa. We've done these things on them. And the combination has made Martha look now younger than ten years ago when I started to do this stuff on her. Like, we did theotherapy treatment on her the first time ten years ago. And her jawline is better now with this combination of things that we've done for her. than it was back then. So, she's, she's, my age. We just both turned 50. She looks phenomenal. She looks phenomenal. And, and I can't even imagine, you know, cutting on that face. Not yet. Right. Same with Olivia. She had a lot going on here. She had, we were on the, on the Kybella trial, and she was It's one of their first volunteers volunteer patients. And you know, there was all these, all these other things that we've just, every time we get something, we play around with it with them. And so, for now they don't need anything, but we need to get into that. We need to find someone, maybe I should do my mom's lift and just have her sit here. Yes. Catherine Maley, MBA: At least get her in a video, you know, a video talking about her journey, how much, how much better she feels now. Just if she can't be there in person, at least video is your next best bet. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Right. Right. Right. So, so regarding business, last question what's been the biggest challenge? Cause now, you know, business almost as well as the surgery, cause you you've been in a few scenarios. What's the biggest challenge in today's world of running the practice? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: I think it's, It's always the same. I think it's staff management, communication with the staff. When, when you as the surgeon are, are the COO, CFO, and CEO, as we mostly all start out, and for the most part, most businesses like ours, practices like ours, stay that way. Most people don't hire CFOs And I don't expect that I will either, as much as we may be expanding and growing. But when you're all of those things, and you're the primary revenue, revenue generator, means you have your hands in some kind of a patient treatment most of the time. And so, having the time to touch base again with the staff, to make sure everybody's on this, on the same page, moving in the same direction, saying the same things to patients. And, and maintaining the same decorum with the, with the patients and with the way that we present ourselves and the practice and so on. It's just so difficult. So, you know, I, I always tell, I told Magda, if I can listen to every phone call, I would, but I can't. So, when I call you guys from the office, And you don't know that it's me calling, and I hear you answer in a certain way, then I'm going to call you out on it, because that's the only time it happens. That's the only time I hear it. And I have to presume that that's happening throughout the day. So, every once in a while, on my way in, I'll pick up my cell phone from the car and I'll just call. And if it's 8. 30 and the phones are still on, on voicemail, I go berserk. I tell, we open at 8. 30. Why are the phones still on voicemail? Or if they answer the phone and they say thanks for calling Dr. Torkian's office, how can I help you? And they don't say their name, I go berserk. I say, wait, we have this conversation ten times. A week when I call into the office and still it's happening. And so, I think staff management is the hardest thing because you just can't be everywhere all the time and I'm really thankful for Magda because she's like my extension to me I think if there's anybody that I could give a C title two with three letters and a c in front of it the chief something it would be Magda She could just be the chief and the reason we hired her was for that because I felt I need the help Martha needs the help we need we need Someone to help us steer the yacht. Yeah, she's, she's wonderful. And so, I think that that's been the hardest thing is just, is that the other thing that's been hard in my perspective, when we. When I started out in two, it was around 2008, actually, 2006, I finished my fellowship. And, you know, I came out and, and one of my, my esteemed and, and wonderful professors at UC Irvine, who was, who is still a mentor, although he doesn't see himself that way with me because we're friends. He says, You are the LeBron James of rhinoplasty. So, that was, that was back when LeBron James was a rookie, you're going to be this, you're going to, you're that person. And I said, wow, this is amazing. And at that time, when I came out, I started to do mostly noses. And it built up because it was easy to market the noses, at that time we didn't have social media. Facebook was just kind of beginning and it wasn't really that visual. And so, we had, it was kind of like a Twitter'esque kind of a situation with Facebook. So, we had basically just the web. And we had print ads still and I didn't take out many print ads because they were very hard. They were hit or miss And so, I made my own website. This was how easy it was back then You could get a website generator called front page by Microsoft And I sat next to my friend at a surgery center God rest his soul. Dr. Peyman Simone, who I think you may have known love him and he's since passed away, unfortunately for covet during covet I don't know what the circumstances were but he and I sat next to each other and I shared my DVD ROM of front page with him and I said, "Check it out! I'm making my website. You want to do it too?"; and so, he puts it in his Laptop and we sat next to each other and we basically like passed ideas around on how to like make our websites did the SEO ourselves. It was that easy, got a Google Analytics and ad account and started to do pay per click. And my other colleagues, Babak Azizadeh and these, these people that were in practice before us say, How did you guys, how did you get your name up here so quickly? I said, I don't know. I just did it. And we put it up and it's like you put a bunch of meta tags in there and it's like having a big billboard on your website and it worked. And, and that was how I kind of got my boost and the rhinoplasty thing just happened and then revision rhinoplasty happened and I got better at them and word got around in the community. But what became really challenging was when social media then came in and I started to do social media early. I put a couple of videos on Facebook. I did a couple of videos on YouTube, but I wasn't great at it. I was never really good at being a showy, what I thought was a showy person. I, I can't. boast about myself ever. I'm just not programmed that way. Maybe I wasn't brought up that way. I don't know. I feel like my grandmother used to show off about me a lot, but still my wife thinks she can get her on Instagram. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's a grandma's place anyway. Right? Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, someone's got to do it. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Someone's got to, someone's got to do, someone's got to be on face Facebook and Instagram. And so, it was hard for me to push that too much. You know, I, I couldn't be the person to come on Facebook and say the best plastic surgeon in town, the best rhinoplasty in town, it wasn't me. And so, I didn't do a ton of it, but I put stuff out and it worked, but I quickly, very, very quickly got surpassed. As you know, that was like a boom of an, an explosion of growth for a lot of people. And I quickly got surpassed in that avenue. And so, now I see younger colleagues of mine and I look at them, how I know. Some of my older colleagues back in 2006 through 8 were looking at me like, how did you get your name up here on this search engine so quick? I'm thinking, how did you get all these followers on Instagram so quick, you know? So, that's been a real challenge for me. It's been using that medium as a means of promoting myself. Thankfully, I still have a lot of community referrals coming in, a lot of patient referrals and community referrals. I have some people that I work with who are estheticians and many spas who refer as well, and they trust me, they know my work and, and, you know, in the end, it's not just the work, it's not just the results and, and how people look after it's They're buying a feeling from you, and if they can come in and, and they can have a conversation with me that's friendly, and somehow builds their happy feelings inside of them up, somehow makes them feel warm about themselves, and they feel like they look good in the mirror, then they're going to send patients back to me. They're going to send friends back to me. So, it's not about the picture on the, on the Instagram. It's not about how many followers there are in my practice at this time, although we are pushing that avenue a little bit more too, because we know we have to. It's, it's been, the challenge has been that, but the, the bonus to me has been that I always have people come in and they just say, you know, I've heard the nicest things about you as a person. And then they talk about what they want surgically. And that's, that's really, to me, golden. That just makes me happy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if you weren't in Beverly Hills, if you were anywhere else, your social media would be solid. The problem is, is you're surrounded by these heavy hitters. And by the way, those who have 500 plus thousand followers, they're spending hours and hours doing that. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? They also have usually a full media team behind them. They're meeting with them. two or three times a week trying to map out what are we going to do? How are we going to, how are we going to do this using as least of the doctor's time as possible? But there's a whole bunch of strategy and money and effort and time that goes into that. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? So, anyone who makes it look easy, they're spending time or money on it, quite frankly. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: It's, it's difficult. You know, I know my colleagues I know a lot of them, how hard they work on that and how much time they, they put into it. You know, my focus has always been, I'm a very family centric person. You can tell how many times I've mentioned my wife, my grandmother, my parents, whatever. Yeah. And some kids in there too. My, my goal has always been. I, I work, I do what I do because I really love it, and I love helping people in the way that I do. And I really love the surgery of it too, and the results and the instant gratification that we all get. But I always want to be home for din I want to be home for dinner. This is the reason that I'm not doing head and neck reconstructions. We all get into this wanting to do that, you know, that's part of that, that story that we all have, but doing head and neck reconstructions would mean you're the second shift and you're not going to be home for dinner because someone else is sick. Spent all day taking the cancer out, you know, so you're filling in a hole on someone's face. You're going to be second shift and No dinner tonight for the for you and the kids, but that's my goal and I've and I pride myself in that It's what I want to be known for. I want to be known as That amazing dad that amazing husband and son who's a great surgeon and treats people nicely, you know It's not about having the biggest Instagram and Facebook presence, but I have to tell you in and this is all new topic that we could discuss forever and on different social media platforms, but we're on different podcasts anybody who uses social media, even if you're using it just for advertising is susceptible to The effects of social media that the effects that they have on you as a person There is always the looking at what other people have. There is always the person who's on a yacht somewhere on vacation when you're not, or, you know, is constantly showing you pictures of where they're traveling to, or what kind of car they're driving or how many followers they have or so on. And it's, and we're all susceptible to that as humans, and it's very hard to separate from that, which is why I strongly believe that children should just not be on social media until they are very old. We thankfully have been successful in that with our youngest one. Our two others are responsible, but I, I know that they're affected by it. Everybody is. And if you're a parent out there listening and you just one day you're home and your teenagers are down. Yeah, kids can get like down sometimes and they don't want to talk about it, especially when they're teenagers. But I would guarantee that that in this day and age in our current cultural environment, 90 percent of the time, that's because of some you. Thank you. Thing not positive that happened on social media or something that just got them down that's on social media, and it's to me such a dangerous thing. So, as a business person, we are also susceptible to that. And one of the best things that someone ever told me as a coach to practice and business was. You need to mind your own business and don't worry about theirs. It's okay to look at it. You consume it a little bit to know what's out there, to know what other people are doing. You may copy it a little bit. Don't feel bad about copying, looking and seeing what ideas you can get from it. But mind your business. Don't worry about there so much. Catherine Maley, MBA: I couldn't agree more. I have to ask you out of curiosity because in Beverly Hills, everyone has spent a lot of money on PR. And I don't know if it's, I mean, you got a really good piece on the doctors. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? And so, I just want to ask, cause I still get phone calls shouldn't I hire a PR agency? And frankly, in today's world, I don't think you need one. I, I, I'd rather just, if you want to go that route, then just go ahead and, you know, open up your phone and start doing videos yourself. Cause that would be more authentic. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Just tell me, did the doctors, did that piece help you? a lot, a little. It was just a nice ego boost. Like, what do you think about PR nowadays? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: It was all three of those things. Okay. There's a lot of different kinds of PR. And, and we got a little bit of all, I've worked with two different PR firms in the past. One early, early in my practice. Got me on a couple of and we don't even have Good clips of them because they happened at a time where it was harder to get the digital clips They were in like 2008 literally so getting digital clips were a little bit more difficult But I did the under eye filler injection on Fox 11 As my first like big one There was a couple others where we talked about medical tourism with some other news outlets and so on and then you get quoted in magazines as Having been asked a certain question and so on and they help they add up They definitely can get you some cloud back then. I think it was way more important than now I think now there's so much video content out there that if you're just doing your own video content and don't have a reporter involved It's more authentic. It's more meaningful more valuable if you can get the word out on your YouTube, which I, again, I'm not good at, but one of my good friends in San Diego is excellent at it. And it's, it's working out really well for him because he has the time to put into it. He can put in that time and make these videos and they make them look really good because he's got a production team behind him, the right thumbnail on there and it's just golden. But the doctors, there were three visits there. I had three different shows with them. One was. Was not with a PR agent. They called me one was with a PR agent and one was us calling them. So, we had, we did it all three ways and all three were great for a short period of time. Then they were just okay. Then they were ego boosters. And still to this day, they're, they're all three of those things because they just give you a little bit more clout having them posted on the website or every once in a while reviving one and of course now my hairline looks different, not very different because of the drops I'm using, of course, but, but, you know, like you look different, but now all of a sudden there's like this video of me from six years ago, seven years ago, doing the facelift for the weight loss patient on, on the doctor's show. So, so the first one. And they called me and they had a trauma patient, they had a trauma person, and I don't know how they got to me, but somehow, they had called other people and they said, well, we don't want to handle this, maybe, maybe Torkian can handle it. And so, it was a patient who had been run over by a car. And she had tremendous facial trauma, and she still, she was reconstructed beautifully and wonderfully in the desert area near Palm Desert. And she just needed some cleaning up of some of the reconstructions, and she couldn't breathe. So, she needed a little nasal, nasal overhaul, a complete nasal overhaul. That was one. The second was... My PR group at that time, I was working with Arlene Howard. I think she's still in practice now, but slowly starting to phase out. Wonderful, big name in the industry. She was charging a lot, but it was at that time we considered it definitely worthwhile because it just kept on building the clout. It was nice to have that. It's hard to be available for them enough though. That's the hard thing about working with PR people. If any of the listeners out there are thinking about it. Is that they want you sometimes to just drop everything and answer a phone call so that they can tell you about a reporter who wants to talk to you tomorrow while you're supposed to be in surgery. And it's, it's hard. You know, you're doing all this so you can be in surgery, but then if you are, then you can't really take the time to do what they want you to do. For me, that became the hard thing. Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say it's great if you can get it, but I, I wouldn't put a bunch of trouble in today's world. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Although it does look good on the website, as long as you don't look aged too much. It does give you a lot of credibility. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: It's totally true. I really, I really loved doing it, especially with the doctor's show. I love their staff. I love Dr. Orden. I even got to know some of the producers and occasionally would see them even outside of, outside of there and, and just, you know, just hang with them because they were just nice people and it was nice to know them. So, the third one, we actually got on ourselves. I had seen a patient who really blew my mind with what she had come in with, but I saw her like five years prior to her real surgical treatment. And when I saw her, she was telling me that her nose is swelling and she's pregnant. And I was like, well, I can't do anything about this now you're pregnant. Like there's doesn't make sense, but yeah, nose is swell when you're pregnant. And she says, no, it's really swelling a lot. And I reassured her. I said, it's not that bad. It's just swelling. It just happens. It's hormonal. And like five years later, she came in with a five-year-old. And sat at my office and said, so I have this thing on my nose. And I said, how'd you acquire that? And I didn't even put two and two together. I don't remember it was her. The name sounded familiar, but I didn't remember. But she had this thing that looked like it was traumatically cut straight down the middle of the tip of her nose. And it turned out she had had what I thought, I suspected and confirmed later after surgery was a granuloma, a subcutaneous granuloma of pregnancy in her, the tip of her nose. They normally happen inside the nose on the mucous membrane that cause bleeding, but this one is, it's kind of like a vascular tumor, but it happens to be so hormone responsive that it only grows during pregnancy while that hormonal environment is, is surging. And so, we confirmed it with a biopsy during her surgery, but I, I operated on her to correct this issue. It was a rhinoplasty plus reconstruction of the tip skin. And I, and I thought, if I'm going to do this, I want to do it pro bono. I don't want to charge her because I really like connect with this situation Now that I know who this is and how we this conversation started five years ago And I said what if I can get you on a tv show? Then we can do it for free. Would that be cool with you? She said anything you want doc So; I called the doctor's show and I said this is the deal. We have this patient I think it's a wonderful thing for people to learn about it's probably not going to happen to anybody out there because it's, it's only been reported like once or twice in the literature, but this is something that we could put out there and teach people about what kind of things can happen to noses during pregnancy. And so, they took it and we did that one. That was, that was, I think, the most gratifying one to me. And I really loved working with them. It was fun to be, you can tell I like to talk, so it was kind of fun to be there. Hanging out in that environment. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, that's good. So, just to wrap it up, what would be any advice you have for any up-and-coming surgeon? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? What, what advice would you give them to enter this marketplace or to survive in this marketplace? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Oh, it's so tough. I feel like I still need the advice myself. Because no matter how long you've been in practice and how far you get, you're always going to still feel like you're not where you want to be. And you always have some growth to do. I think what resonates most with me, having your basic human values in place in your practice are always, should always be your priority. You should always be the kindest that you can be to people, and that also, of interest, will help you, as a side note, to help, kind of filter out some of the undesirables that come into your practice. Sometimes, as a nicer person, you want to help everybody, and you end up getting some of that. You get wrapped into some of the narcissism that exists within the plastic surgery community, the patients. Sometimes, because... They're interested in their appearance. Some are interested way too much. And they're really wrapped up in it. And they get everyone in the office wrapped up in it. And we are like that, because we're so nice to them. But still, a priority should be just treating people like people. That's the most important thing. And then, in your own life, treat yourself as a person too. You don't have to be a work horse. You are the work horse of your practice. But you don't have to be Thank you. working that way. You should have a life outside your practice. You should have a gratifying, satisfying home life. And that, that is what will lead you. That's the drive for you to do better and better all the time. That's the whole point of it. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that's such great advice and I would say, also make sure your staff and any of your other partners, they have the same kind of values you do because it's tough to be in a practice where you do have home life balance and the guy next to you is just the lion in the jungle who's trying to crush it. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? It doesn't make for a, you know, a positive environment. So, last question before we wrap it up. Tell us something that we don't know about you. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Wow. There's probably so much, but a lot of people probably know this already. I am a do it yourself er. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I thought so with the radio. Yeah. You turned in into the cell phone. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: I think to some extent, probably all surgeons are right. We are manual. We like to do things. We like to see the results of the things that we do. So, I like to copycat stuff. I paint. But when I paint, I'm usually very heavily inspired by something else. So, I begin as a copy and I change it to me to make what I want it to look like. So, I cook and I do the same thing. I will go to a restaurant; I'll taste something and my wife can see it in my eyes. She says, Oh God, he's thinking again. And then I go home and then the next day I've made that meal and I try to copy and emulate this really difficult, all the flavors that come out of it. How close do you get? Sometimes very, very close. Oh, good for you. One of my favorite things to make is the artichoke, the artichoke from the Hillstone group. I don't know if you have a Hillstone where you are in Northern California. It used to be called Houston's. They're all over. Their first one was in Nashville. But Houston's, which Hillstone group, they make the best artichoke and I've got that down. It's. You can find it probably in my TikTok account because I made a video of it. My daughter edited an amazing video, and I like to bake sourdough bread. It's a hobby of mine, so everybody comes over, they always want the bread. Now we're experimenting with pizza as well, but it's, it's kind of an interesting thing. I, I just like to copy and emulate everything that I love. That's around me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, well, you have some skills to fall back on if surgery doesn't work out for you, right? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentor's building? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Yeah, everybody, everybody who comes over our house says, man, you should have a bakery. I said, no, no, no. Love that. I don't want any part of that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Dr. Torkian, if somebody wanted to get in touch with you, I do know your website is drtorkian.com. Is there any other way you would want them to get ahold of you in case they've got some questions for you? Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Right. Our email on the website actually gets copied to my direct email. It is hello@drtorkian.com. That gets directed to me, and if anybody has any questions. wants to bring up any points or even maybe use our surgery center. We'd love that. Catherine Maley, MBA: No, good plug. Yeah. I mean, it's really in a killer place. Everyone who lives in around that area, like I'm in Northern California, but even I've heard of the Lasky clinic in Southern California. It's a pretty big deal down there. And I wanted to add one more thing. Another little plug. If you're really interested in the marketing and the business side of plastic surgery, I did put together this incredible learning center full of training vaults. If you can't get enough of me, there's a plenty of me in there for you. And it's called CosmeticPracticeVault.Com. You can also get it on my website at CatherineMaley.Com. But it just gives you a lot of insights into how the heck you do this in today's world. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on "Buying Your Mentor's Building". If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Torkian you can reach out to his website at, DrTorkian.com. A big thanks to Dr. Torkian for sharing his experiences on the topic of, "buying your mentor's building". And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Buying Your Mentor's Building — with Behrooz A. Torkian, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drtorkian #behroozatorkianmd #behrooztorkianmd #beverlyhillsplasticsurgeon #beverlyhillscosmeticsurgeon #surgerybuilding #plasticsurgerybuilding #cosmeticsurgerybuilding #surgicalsuite | |||
| Trends Affecting Your Growth (Ep. 221) | 01 Sep 2023 | 00:15:52 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and trends affecting your growth. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Trends Affecting Your Growth". How you attract new cosmetic patients to your practice is quickly changing. There have been more technological advancements this past year than in many years before. So here are major shifts happening that are or will affect you big time in the pursuit of attracting new cosmetic patients The goal is to create a system where you pay to attract a new patient but then you 10X their value because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, approve their photos and share you on social media with their followers. That's how you build a cosmetic practice patient flywheel that keeps turning on its own. So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues. If this resonates with you, visit www.KiSS Loyalty.com to find out if you're a good fit. Labor Day is a way to remember the men and women that fought for the rights of workers in the labor movement of the late 19th century. Because of that work we get days off like this to celebrate. "An annual celebration of the social and economic achievements of American workers." It's to honor workers. That includes everyone who works for you to support your vision, represent you professionally, and get more results than you can on your own. You have until Saturday midnight to take advantage of a very special offer I have never offered before. It's your opportunity to get this part of your practice humming along like a well-oiled machine so you are booked out and happy. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Trends Affecting your GrowthWelcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice and a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice from author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA. Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and trends affecting your growth. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. How you attract new cosmetic patients to your practice is quickly changing. There have been more technological advancements this past year than in many years before. So here are major shifts happening that are or will affect you big time in the pursuit of attracting new cosmetic patients The first one is Privacy concerns. They are killing your plans for attracting new patients to your practice. So much is happening behind the scenes with apple, google and FB trying to dominate consumer data capture, so they are no longer sharing data with advertisers like before. And google is eliminating 3rd party cookies that allowed you to collect consumer data and Apple makes consumers proactively give permission for 3rd parties to collect and use their consumer data on their iPhones. And now YouTube is discontinuing content targeting options like keywords, topics and similar audiences in their paid advertising. Frankly, google wants to set up your ad bid strategy and select your audience for you using artificial intelligence (AI) but this makes it very difficult for you to attract new PREFERRED patients when you can no longer target specifically to certain audiences. And that means Ad results will become incomplete and inaccurate because you now have only 10% of the data that used to be 100% available to you. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. So that will force you to increase your advertising budget substantially, as in 30-80% and HOPE the broader, less targeted audience is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation. It's very similar to old-school mass advertising like TV. You would spend a fortune to talk to the masses, rather than a targeted audience most likely to want your services. That's why so many of you complain to me your paid google ads are a waste of money. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. Not only do your ad costs increase dramatically, so do poor quality leads. Since your ads are not as targeted to your preferred patients, you get a mixed bag of the public contacting you. Now your staff wastes a lot of time triaging these leads to determine who is really serious and who is flaky. So, you need well-trained staff and processes to qualify leads. BTW, if you aren't already, I highly recommend you charge a consult fee so at least, your time is better protected from wasted consults who have no intention of moving forward. Online advertising has gotten complicated, technical and a lot more expensive, so suffice it to say, it's going to get even more expensive to advertise for new cosmetic patients with less than stellar results. Then there's SEO and Open AI. It's dramatically changing the way we find information on the Internet. Google switched to an AI-powered Search Experience which is having a big impact on the way search results are being displayed. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. You may have noticed that over the past years, Google has been showing more and more ads at the top of the search engine results page. That means the organic results keep getting pushed further down below the page, making it harder for you to be found in organic search for patients looking for you. On top of that, Google is turning into an answer engine in which they are answering consumer questions without consumers having to go to your website. So, you need really good fresh content that entices prospective patients to click and stay put on your website. This way google sees you as a viable resource and sends you more prospective patients. On the one hand, content creation has been simplified with Open AI and GTPChat since it can create content for you in seconds. But on the other hand, it can do that for everyone else as well, so now the supply of content is much greater than the demand and that's also making it difficult for you to rank in search engines. One more thing...Google is all about local search and that makes it difficult for you to expand your market base beyond your local community. Given the above challenges, you almost have to embrace social media as a real marketing channel and not just a passing fad. Many practices have given up on updating their website again and pouring money into seo and pay per click advertising and are turning to social media (the big one being Instagram) to find new cosmetic patients. Other practices pay someone to do this for them because they know it's important but they have no interest in it OR the surgeons are spending a lot of their own time, in between caring for patients, creating and posting content to build up their audience of followers and to create user generated content, because you need to get your followers to interact with your posts. Personally, I recommend you do a blend of both. Make one in-house person responsible for your social media efforts but have them work with a videographer, as well as you and your team, to create content organically by posting the "Day in the life of a plastic surgeon". That way you are the content without too much effort. You're just doing your thing and it's getting captured in photos and videos. But please keep in mind, you are only renting those followers. IG and FB own your followers so they are, in essence the landlord. That means they can raise the rent and/or kick you out at any time, so you lose your data you've spent years collecting. I'm sure you're aware that social media and plastic surgery don't get along.Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. You are showing graphic material that can be offensive or hurt the self-esteem of the public so they can close down your account without notice. They also decide who sees your organic social media content. FB & IG continually strangle your list to force you to "pay to play" by buying advertising. The latest stats show only 5.2% of your followers actually see your organic content so you have this false sense of security thinking you're marketing your practice to the masses, when really only a trickle of followers are seeing it. To counter this, I strongly recommend you own the data! You can no longer trust that audiences you have built on social media platforms will be available to you. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. The 1st party data is the future, and the money is in your patient list data.it's become your best targeted list because they already raised their hand indicating they are interested in cosmetic rejuvenation. Use compelling landing pages to capture your followers' name, email and cell so you can stay in touch no matter what happens. I did want to mention TikTok as well. It's growing in popularity and the audience is getting older so it's worth posting there since it's not as crowded as Instagram. I just would adjust your settings so no one under 18 can see your content or ads since you do not want to anger the parents in your community by enticing their underaged children and hurt your reputation. By the way, if you are going to advertise on social media platforms, you need super compelling visual content like videos and attention grabbing headlines, along with a killer reason to contact you so go slow and test first before throwing a bunch of money at it. And this is interesting. Gamification is gaining in popularity. For our industry it's loyalty programs where patients gain points for special pricing. However, you have to keep patients engaged or it fizzles out. And it has to be easy and fun. That's why I offer The KiSS Loyalty Club where we do all the marketing for you to guarantee it stays fresh and active. You can get more details at www.KiSSLoyalty.com. Another big challenge is cosmetic rejuvenation Technical Advancements. They are coming at patients fast and furiously and that's increasing the demand for your services, but also confusing to would-be patients. For example, just google non-surgical nose job, facelift, fat reduction and millions of search results come up. What that means is plenty of patients still need your surgical expertise; however, way more prospective patients will opt for non-sx procedures first to delay surgery. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. It would behoove you to develop that relationship early so they come to you for non-sx AND then stay for sx procedures. That way, you don't lose them to non-surgeons and medspas. So enjoy the surgical side of your practice while ALSO building up your non-surgical as a healthy stand-alone profit center and here's another reason why…. Patients enter different doors to cosmetic rejuvenation, so you want to meet them where they are. Some will go straight to SX and then stay for more, while others dabble in non-sx, some for years, before they are ready for your SX option. And the beauty of our industry is that Cosmetic Consumers Have ENDLESS NEEDS The non-surgical industry has grown to over $61BB dollars and has a projected annual growth rate of 15.40% from this year to 2030. This is thanks to social trends, social media and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the demand. And let's face it, we females are hard on ourselves. We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves and then we finally have enough and do something about it and then what do we do? We find the next thing that bothers us about us and focus on that. It never ends and that's what keeps all of us in business, which is a good thing. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. As a side note, we've been talking a lot about private equity on this podcast and it turns out the investors want to buy your non-sx as much as or more than your surgical side since the non-sx is more transferable so that's something to consider if you're looking to exit in the near future. And, here's another interesting stat… Loyal non-SX patients spend 67% more than new patients and that makes sense because If they know, like and trust you, they are open to your recommendations and will gladly buy more of your services when you become a one-stop shop for them. So, it's the Retention of your patients that scales your practice using resources you already have and paid dearly for. You likely have a database of thousands of patients. I know for a fact many of them would gladly return and refer if given the opportunity. Because the short-term, one-and-done mentality no longer works as it did before because you won't be able to or want to spend thousands of dollars for a lead that actually turns into a paid procedure. So, instead, you look inward at the leverage you already have like your patient list that took you years to grow and the relationships you have with patients who would gladly help you grow your practice for free. But This will take a mindset shift from transactional to relational. Look at each patient as an unpaid practice revenue-generator who brings you new patients for free. Once you embrace this "patients for life" mindset, you will treat your patients differently and they will react in kind by building your practice for you organically by referring their friends, giving you a review thousands of others will read, approve the use of their photos and share you on their social media channels so their followers can get to know you too. So, given these challenges, how CAN you grow your cosmetic revenues without growing broke? The answer is to focus on the fundamentals that make all the difference and here they are in this order: first: Increase referrals and reviews then Retain more patients then Add more value to differentiate provide Ongoing staff training Increase conversion rate Increase transaction value Increase frequency of visits THEN Increase leads/traffic lastly. But most surgeons have this backwards. They focus only on the bottom rung to increase leads, skip the leverage parts so they and their staff work a lot harder than necessary for less results. The goal is to create a system where you pay to attract a new patient but then you 10X their value because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, approve their photos and share you on social media with their followers. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth. That's how you build a cosmetic practice patient flywheel that keeps turning on its own. So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues. If this resonates with you, visit www.KiSS Loyalty.com to find out if you're a good fit. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Trends Affecting Your Growth".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#growthtrends #practicegrowth #growyourpractice | |||
| Is Architect Optional? — with Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch & Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D (Ep. 220) | 25 Aug 2023 | 00:53:46 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and if an architect is optional. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Is Architect Optional? — with Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch & Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D". If you've ever done an office renovation, you know what a big deal it can be.... Mistakes made. Is an Architect Optional? Surprises happen. Is an Architect Optional? Delays occur. Is an Architect Optional? Budget blows up. Is an Architect Optional?
This Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode was with special guests Mohsen & Marzi Ghoreishi, the managing partners of The Kohan Group one of the nation's top architects, designers and builders of gorgeous cosmetic surgical offices. If you are thinking about doing a build-out, you do NOT want to miss this. They talked about how they turn your vision into reality, common mistakes made that cost even more time and money and what could go wrong when you don't start with an architect. Very enlightening. Visit The Kohan Group's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Is Architect Optional? — with Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch & Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.DCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and if an architect is optional. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's guest is different, but they know a lot about if an architect is optional. They're not surgeons, but they certainly work with surgeons and know if an architect is optional So, my special guests are Mohsen and Marzi Ghoreishi, the managing partners of The Kohan Group and one of the nation's top architectures, designers and builders of gorgeous cosmetic surgical offices, you really have to check them out. They've been in business for over 20 years and have been helping surgeons learn if an architect is optional, and their work is spectacular. So, we often share the podium at medical conferences. We like we're on the circuit together. So, that's how I've known them for a long time. And it's such a hot topic, especially now with everything that happened in the hospitals and doctors just want their own space. They want their own autonomy. They don't want to book surgery through a hospital anymore or surgery center. So, I thought that they would be a valuable resource for you. So, we're going to talk about that today. So, Mohsen and Marzi, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Thank you so much. We appreciate the invite. Thank you very much. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Thank you, Catherine, for the invite. We are so happy to be here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, would somebody tell me, where did the name Kohan come from? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: I'll take that one. How's that? Kohan is a Persian word, actually. It's a very small word, but it pertains to quite different words in English. Kohan pertains to something that is an old building, an ancient building, an old culture. It could be a way of life from the past. It could be an old building, like I said, but it still is, actually, still is valid, exists, and it's a way of life that people still do. So, literally, anything that pertains to something that's old and has dignity and everlasting. We consider that to be Kohan, and we figured that would be a great name for architectural firm where when we create something it has everlasting nest to it. It is done with dignity and something in mind that lasts forever for our clients. And it's a it's a lesson from the past, but still valid today and in the future. So, that's why we selected Kohan. Catherine Maley, MBA: Terrific. Now, before we get into the, the nitty gritty. What difference does it make to have an okay office versus a gorgeous office? And I will just anecdotally give you, my answer. We are both out of San Francisco. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? I actually left San Francisco. You're still courageous enough to live in the city, but I'm out. I'm in Sausalito, but I used my very first client 23 years ago was a surgeon in the penthouse of the 450 Sutter street medical building. And that was. Prime real estate and he had gutted it out. It was gorgeous. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? And he, when instead of him taking the office with the breathtaking, you know, 360-degree views, he took a different office and it had his coordinator in the. In the cool office with the views and when you walked in, it had such a psychological effect on people. When the patients would walk in, they were just mesmerized with the views there and how gorgeous it was. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? And they knew it wasn't going to be cheap. Like it, like it was just, it was so obvious that he, they're not going to be negotiating with him. This was high end, high class. It was just beautiful. So, I mean, how much of a difference does that make in, in the regular world? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yeah. I will say something amazing. Please add. Of course, I think this this is similar to if you go to a restaurant and say, what's the difference between a very beautiful restaurant with a great ambiance. Forget the service and the food, just the great ambience versus something that like you go to a Waffle House then of course that's the similar answer to that. When a client or customer walks into a four-star Michelin restaurant with a great ambience, of course, feels and expects different kind of experience but if you go walk into Waffle House, I say Waffle House because it's everywhere in the country then of course, you expect. Differently, you expect a different experience and also you expect to pay differently. So, that's pretty much the same similarity of these, right Marzi? Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Yes, absolutely. And also, I would say you know, that's the proven fact that in few first second when the patient enters to the office, they pass the judgment. Then they see this face before even they meet the staff or they meet the doctor. And in this competitive environment for all this cosmetic profession and business, The doctor really needs that wow factor first before meet with the patient to be able to set the relationship with the patient rights. And I think that's the biggest tool they can use in their advantage to make sure the psychology of the patient, the rights. Today to be able to start a conversation about how great they are in their work. Right. Just to add a little bit mm-hmm. We talked about the patient. This was patient experience. Mm-hmm. , but imagine if you put yourself in a box. All day, eight, ten hours a day and work inside a box. You, me, Marzi, all of us. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Versus somewhere with a view or somewhere with a great ambience. What is the difference experience we would have as people working at them? And what kind of production we would have if you would have such an environment? Absolutely. So, so it's not just the patient itself, but also it is. Us, the providers who work inside that space, our team, I think the psychology of a great space, it impacts on everyone inside of it. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it made a big difference with the staff as well, because I was hiring people, and when they walked in, they knew we weren't fooling around, like this was a very high-end practice, and he had high standards of excellence, and it showed, that's the, that's the secret though. You've got to be consistent with this. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? If you're going to have a killer website, and then a killer office, But a crappy receptionist, . You can't, you've got to be consistent, you know? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: That's true. Absolutely. That's true. The Dr. May be really good, like, like I said, the very first six seconds, anybody walk in that waiting room or that environment, they pass a judgment on. And I don't care how good of a surgeon you are, they're done. I mean, before you even, they even meet you. They, they, they don't, they either like you or dislike you, and then it goes, of course, who's always at the kiosk or that front desk if they get up and put a big smile on their face. Of course, that's. You know, and that experience continues on and but definitely starts with the physical environment as you walk into any space. It's amazing what a space can do for you. Catherine Maley, MBA: For your psyche. So, let's talk about your services because one thing I didn't understand when I, because we've talked a lot about this on the podcast. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? So, many of the doctors want to build out their own place. And I, I would say like, they would say, I don't even know how to get started, you know, like, Do you start with an architect? Do you start with it? Find a good contractor first, who then will find you an architect. Do you who's going to design the thing? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Like, you know, like what? Aren't you a full, like one stop shop? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yes, actually, everyone asked that question and a lot of people stumble around different areas and then sometimes they take a wrong turn. I think the old school is that you start definitely. Of course, you first have to know you have the money and you need to have a budget, right? How much are you going to spend? So, who are you going to ask how much you need? I think a lot of people pick up the phone and talk to a contract and I have there is lots of pitfalls with that because the contractor will give you what they think that office should be. They don't really need. Dissect and dig in to figure out the realistic budget for what kind of vision you have. So, my suggestion would be, if you will, to discuss immediately with an architect. And that's why if you refer to AIA.org, and I recommend every surgeon who's planning to build, go there and study as what an architect does, because most people don't know what an architect does. If they go there at aia. org and they read, They'll see the architects have something called pre design and program, where during these two phases. An architect can help the client, the person who's building, to come up with a realistic budget understand their vision, and realistically understand how long of a building, how long is this building going to last for them, how many square foot it's going to be, because the budget, construction cost, All of that relates to, and me going to the bank, getting that kind of money relates to this architect trying to figure out the very thing you need to achieve and live with it for the next 20 years. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you're saying start with the architect, because I think a lot of them start with the contractor, quite frankly. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: No, no, no. No, that's two different worlds. And the contractors are needed to build it, for sure. And a good contractor who is experienced with surgical facility needs to build it. But the contractor... Does not have those type of expertise and services and architect provides in order to realistically understand what the client is after. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: That's true. Also, I think what is important just to answer back to question about the services. So, clients, the doctor goes to the contractor because the first question they have is how much is going to cost. And that's the determining factor for them to be able to move one step ahead. But I would say before asking that dollar number, I need, I need them to know what scope of work we are entering into that. What is the journey? What are the challenges they may face? And what we are going to provide as an architect, per AIA, as Mohsen said, we are going to walk them through the process of design and construction and occupancy. Then they know what is the Then they can ask the right question. For example, we provided Programming and design as one scope of work. We provide architectural services. We provide engineering services. Also, we provide the interior design services. We help them also go through the construction. These are the services we provide to be able to answer the question every single doctor has. During the process of buildup. Yeah, for sure. Contractor is a big, big part of that. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yeah, when you go to contractor and you just pick up the phone and say, how much it costs? Because everybody's asking the cost. The contractor says, oh, it's going to be about Well, these days we've done another cosmetic surgery down the road. With two ORs. And it costs us 300 per foot. That's it. And the doctor is sitting on this side, the contractor is on that side of the phone, and each one of them have a different vision inside their head what that thing looks like. Or what's inside of that surgery center. Or what kind of certification that surgery center has. Or how long will this surgery center be going to last for this doctor. I mean, it's up to your imagination. So, it's just a very immature. Response to a very difficult question, which really cannot be answered until it's dig in and dissected and figured out before that realistic budget occurs. Because it's just not just not the construction cost, the balls and nuts of the building, but also there is so many soft costs. We have, I have a file that I can go through it. And I can add those soft costs. Sometimes those soft costs are quite, quite high and can break the actually bank, actually. And they, contractors won't talk about that because your question is how much per square foot can you build it? But you didn't ask me. What are the soft costs? Catherine Maley, MBA: I just think it's the, the service you offer that this all-encompassing service, I think it's so brilliant that one person's responsible for all of this, because if you, it's like having software in our industry, like a lot of the doctors have three or four different software applications because they're trying to pull together their lead management process. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? But God, when one thing breaks, nobody can tell, nobody knows who to call, everyone blames everyone else for it. And if you can put it all under one umbrella, I just think that's less of a headache, quite frankly. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Actually, this is what architects do for a living. And it's unfortunate. The doctors don't know about it. They really don't know anything about it. The first thing that comes to their mind is contract. It's just because of the way the world is today. But I suggest definitely, if you really want to do it right, The first time, pick up the phone and call someone, an architect, that has expertise in surgery centers, or whatever the type of building you are building, and require, and if you read on a. org, all of that is in there, and require all the services that the architect provides. So, you have that quarterback handling your project throughout. Catherine Maley, MBA: But you really need an, an architect that understands a surgical center, that it needs to be quad A certified. It can't just be any Joe Schmo, Right. You know, somebody who really understands this. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Yeah. I've, I've had surgeons who did a build out and they forgot to add another lobby for the surgical center and they, they had to literally refit the darn thing or they put the HVAC or whatever. They put it on the wrong side of the room and the water flow was somewhere else and it was like a nightmare. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? And if, because nobody knows what they're doing. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: It is so costly if you want to save costs on the stage of design of the process. And we can discuss more in detail on this subject, but these are all the issues that may happen if you want to cut corners and go with the, you know, Neighbor architect or, you know, brother architect or some familiar person that they can do some drawings that you think that you can get it done. But the fact is no. Unfortunately, there's going to be a lot of issues along the road. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: If the doctor's question and number one priority is the bottom line, dollars, they have to go to an architect. Any other way, they're going to pay later. That's my recommendation. Now, whatever your budget ends up being, yes, you have to pay a fee to the architect. It's as if, if I want to go to a plastic surgeon, I have to go to a plastic surgeon and pay for it. That's what professionals are for. You have to pay a fee to actually do it right the first time. But if really you are not even looking for patient experience or you're not looking for something really off the top or whatever beautiful, you're looking for something really simple and you want to make it really as affordable as possible. You have to go to an art. That's my recommendation. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. One of the biggest issues is a surgeon goes through this probably once in their lifetime. And then they, and then they're educated, but they went through the, the ups and downs and the grief of doing it. And now, and now it's just like a one and done kind of thing. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? So, I highly agree getting some expertise involved early, early on. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: And I can't tell you how often I have heard I wish I had done it differently. Next time I'll, I'll call you. And we've had actually referrals from the. Doctors, clients who didn't go with us, they went with a whole different direction, and then they send us a referral telling the referral person, the very person that go with them first. So, it's amazing, we get those kind of referrals now. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Yeah, that's the interesting point because usually when the doctor wants to establish their practice, if they are young, so I'm sure they have a limited experience about dealing with the different aspects of their business. They are well educated in university and getting degree and a lot of skills to do their surgery. And they tell everybody, oh, I'm opening a practice and everybody provide the opinion. Okay. No, you don't need architect. Just go to a builder. And then someone from the family member, they're trying to help them to put together the colors. And then maybe someone else getting the plan to the permit. So, it's a lot of pieces that is not in hand of professionals. And all of these small pieces can go to. A disaster situation, unfortunately, and we've seen that and we've heard that and we hear stories about that every day and we are not happy about things happening to other to the doctors, but unfortunately trying to get help from their relatives and people they know a little bit of this and that is not a good thing at all. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'll tell you what I'm curious about. A doctor will have a vision in his or her head. And they're trying to communicate it to you. How in the world do you get from what's in their head to what happens in real life reality? How do you communicate that? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Ever since we established Cohen, which is 20 years and nine months ago we tried to establish, we tried to have a road map that is quite different than any other firm. The I have worked before and or it is very hard to know what's in the client's head. Right. I mean, I'm sure if you want to buy a house, you have a vision that I want a house look like this and that, or I want a house from outside and inside, both, doesn't matter, right? And you even see the furniture. You see, you feel, you can even feel the house if you want to do a house. It's the same with any building. So, we have a process on our on the website. If you go to the process tab and it has four steps and one of the most interesting steps is creating a Pinterest page. Pinterest page. I mean, we don't know a lot of these people and the only window through their mind through their, you know, through their mind is by looking at these pictures. We asked them to put on Pinterest. What we call is likes and dislikes. And so, they may take a picture they like, but they really don't know why they like. So, we take like 20, 30 pictures of likes and dislikes, and we take about two to three hours just going through each picture, figuring it out. What is it specifically in that picture that triggered the motions in the client's brains? It's sort of psychology, literally, where you realize, okay, this is what really, why really, he or she likes this picture. Not because of all of the other stuff in the picture, but because of that little one green plant putting over here on the table or something, then we cover that plant and say, how do you feel now? Ooh, that's different now. Okay, well, no, I really don't like it. And start the conversation begins. So, when you do this with 20, 30 pictures. We go through their head and see the world through their eyes. And that is the time where we know how they see the world and what is it that puts a smile on their face. And that's, that's a pretty interesting process. That we really take a lot of time to understand our clients before we even draw the first line. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Exactly. And what also we have, we start the process with This step. So, to getting to know that person, but also, we have a lot of different steps during the design to make sure we are in line with the clients every step. We provide the doctor. So, with different options, we check with them. We go back and forth that based on this and that feedback you had; they provide you this. presentations because we figured out that these are in line with your vision about the space, how you see this space, and how and what kind of space makes you comfortable and relaxed with your brand and your services that you're going to provide your patients. So, there's a lot of check and balance during the design as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: It just seems so. This sounds so challenging. When you're a plastic surgeon and you have a patient bring in a photo of themselves or somebody else and say, this is what I want. Does anyone do that? Does the doctor bring in a photo of their friend's office and say, I want this? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Because that would be a whole lot easier than going, let me, let me explain my vision to you. I can't imagine how that, that translates. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: It's quite tough and that's what makes our, our, our work quite interesting. Because if you were to design buildings that were all they were all similar, like, you've seen cookie cutters before, like, have not driven in developments that all the houses look alike. That doesn't take much brain. You do one and you repeat 100 times and you just change the color. Okay, if you were to do that, it would be one. It could be a very boring practice. So, and everybody would get something similar. This way we basically fit the vision to the to the client's mind. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: So, actually, what we've seen architecture failed. One thing I just want to add is some of the architects, they established their own style. And client goes there because they know they do this specific style, but we don't do that. We are so proud of being able to go through the client mind and making sure we can deliver what they love to see and have. And that's why when you go to our website, you see many different. different look and spaces that they are different, but we can proudly say that they are very successful places for the doctor that they be designed for, for them. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Basically, if the doctor could have been an architect and a creative person, how would they create their own practice if they were to design it? That's what we like to do for them. Catherine Maley, MBA: And how much does the patient journey experience fit into this? Because does a doctor know he wants Only two exam rooms or four exam rooms and he, he just wants a little reception area because he doesn't plan on keeping people waiting. And does he want a big kitchen or a little kitchen? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Does he plan on having a conference center where his staff trainings happen or private or is he going to have private events? Who decides all that? Because you have to decide that early on before you even mention anything about price, right? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Again, again, when you go to the process tab on the website, we have examples and it'll show. Look, this is the process. It's a process which has to take place for all of those to be figured out. And that's called programming. And that during the programming process One thing is to understand client's vision, which is the Pinterest page. The other part is. Understanding exactly or helping the client to understand what does go inside their building. So, the size of the waiting room or the size of the sterilization or a clean room or a soil room all determining factor by how many hours you have. Okay. Or what kind of accreditation you're and we will actually go through that process and help the doctor to figure out the major stuff. And then, by default, we tell them what, what you may, you need to have, how big you may need to have them. And, of course, that determines the score footage. And that's oftentimes happens before even the build. We have to do that before we build a building because we don't know really how many score foot. We need. So, I recommend to figure that out before anything else. Catherine Maley, MBA: See, that's another really good point. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? If they, they don't know how many square feet they need until there's a big discussion about it, and you really strategically look at that. And then, then they have to go find a realtor or something or buy a building. Like a lot of them have already found the space. And now they want to retrofit it. Like they're always in different stages, depending on how far along they are, how, who, how many people they've talked to, you know. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Well, they, they ask a lot of questions. Like a lot of surgeons do have friends, let's say they have two ORs and a quad ASF certified, and they ask their friends, how many square foot you got? And they say, okay, 5, 000 square foot. So, that, that experience is there. So, they start going with the realtor and ask for 5, 000 square foot. Or talk to a contractor, say, okay, can you build me 5, 000 square foot with two of ours? And it happens every day. It happens every and that's fine. We get into the process sometimes maybe a quarter of the way that they're in it, we get into it, and we help them out. But it is, it would be good to know that first before you look for it. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: And not only Forest Grove, but that they need, also there's a lot of other infrastructure. That need to be considered to be in place to be able to deliver, for example, to our surgery and if the really that the space has capability of installing the extra stuff, we need for a surgery center. And that's why we really recommend all the doctors to also consult with an architect prior to going through to end part of the lease. Although the space may look so fantastic and very, very attractive, but if they cannot put their generator, if they have issue with OR, or, you know, discharging patient and this and that there, so that would be a big problem during the construction. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: I recommend before they sign the agreement, they have an architect to check it out because you don't want to push the surgery center into an office building that you like. You got to make sure it fits in there. And as I said, those are very important things. And so, what we can do, we can help them with that. If they found a place that they really love, we can check it out. Or an architect should really check it out to tell them. Okay. Yeah. You know what, doctor, you can have the 2 hours. That room can be in or that's good room. We can move the wall and make it an hour and we see enough infrastructure where we can actually adapt this space to a search. Please before you sign dotted line. Catherine Maley, MBA: That is important. I don't envy you. I find this to be a monumental project and you haven't even started yet. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? You know, golly give me the most common mistakes made that this audience can avoid. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Common mistakes is I think we should base on that. One would be. And not to well, I walked into a building last week northeastern portion of our California here and the doctor had to hire the general contractor and a non-licensed general contractor doing the work and his patients. Does a lot of work on, you know, and pays a lot of expense, a lot of money in the office, is doing her into his interior design. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, of course. It's either her or the wife. Yeah. Yeah. All of a sudden, everyone's an interior designer. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Exactly. So, so I was like, walking in, we don't have a licensed contractor. We have a person who's a patient. Doing interior design and I just walked out. I wasn't going to, we were going to get mixed into that because that from the very get go, you're asking for disaster and I am sure they have managed to pay each 1 of these people in a very low, whatever by services or because you don't have license. We do the point I'm making. That is one big mistake if you use nonprofessional people to help you. You can't use your friends, you can use your, you cannot use your uncle. Those are big mistakes, or sister to do this and that. Because this is not the type of work you want those people to really handle. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: That's true. I think one of the other things that we see every day, and that's not good, and it's not pleasant to watch people going through these things. A lot of doctors, They fell into a trap of going with the lowest cost, although we do believe that we have to save money for our clients and everybody needs to be budget conscious, but being the less expensive. It's not. It doesn't mean it's the best. So, our clients paid a lot when they went to the cheapest one. Which they figured out that they have to pay much more to solve the issue that raises from that decision. So, let's do your due diligence, but don't fell in the trap of someone tempting you that, Hey, I am the cheapest one. I can do this job for you with that lowest cost possible that may shock you. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Honestly, it's very difficult to assess what an architect does for the doctors, because if you go for a liposuction, you say, okay, my stomach is this much, I'm going to do a lipo, or I'm going to do this, and okay, that's it. It's very, very determined what each surgeon does. But an architect can say, okay, I'll do your surgery center for you. And you, he can prepare drawings, about eight sheets of drawings, and get a permit for you. And a contractor can take those eight sheets and build it for them, but the same project can be done by another architect instead of seven sheets. Of drawings, he'll do 70 sheets of drawings. There is a difference between the two. It's not that one is dying to draw. No, it's just one is trying to do the job right the first time and figure everything out into the detail. So, during construction, there are no change orders. There is no time missed because of the change orders. There is no issue during permit process. So, the permit issue is issued quite fast. And at the end, you have a great product. Yes. And if you're going to bid that project, people don't put their hand in their pocket and come up with a bid. They look at the drawings because the drawings are so comprehensive and so detailed that anyone could put a price on it because they know what they're betting. They don't, they can't, they don't have to imagine or assume things that goes into the building where all of a sudden, the beds are so different far apart from each other. So, if, if the architect they select is the right architect and do a very comprehensive work, that architect. Should save them a lot of time and money. Time is also money and get a project done really right. Unfortunately, people oftentimes don't think of that because they see the fee of an architect really low, but they really don't know what that means. They come say, well, we got this architect is going to do it for. Say this amount, but you are three times more expensive. How is that? It's permit is permit. That's where they don't really know and cannot assess the difference in work. And that is where I tell our clients. Please, let me show you an example of a work, and then the next, when you go through an interview with other architects, have a look and see for the same 5, 000 square foot, you know, surgery suite, what are the drawings and deliverables are, and then determine if, what you really want to do, and also understand and talk to the owner of the surgery center, say, it's. How much is change order? How much, how long did it take for you to go through permit process? How many changes did you have during construction? Because those things happen when you do something quick and fast and dirty. You, you leave a lot of things without unanswered and then you have to pick them up somewhere during construction, which that takes time. That means it elongates the construction time. That means money. And nobody knows, nobody really, I hate to see. The clients go through that kind of horrible experience because they just don't know the domino effect. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: And also, when it comes to the time of bedding, if they receive the bed, and sometimes you know, some of the bed, they're slow enough to be so attractive. And some of our client, unfortunately, despite the fact that we asked them not to do that, they went with the lowest price because the contractor, you know, didn't have the experience in surgery center or other things. So, they went there with the lowest price and unfortunately, due to the construction, they had to pay much more money they could have saved if they go with a much more qualified contractor. So, that's the whole. Are top gathering the whole team together. Catherine Maley, MBA: And a lot of the doctors never heard that term change order until they got into this process. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? So, talk about a change order because that changes everything. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: You know, that's true. When that change order comes, they are, they are in the middle of construction. They have no way back to get back out because They can't, it's just more costly to get out of that contract. So, they are subject to come up and pay and eat up the time and do it. Those are those are some of the things we see that it's a mistake. That the clients do, and we also have some of our own mistakes that we have done. And some of them is to, one of them is that, like Marzi said, we realize the owner is picking the least expensive. Contractor who has never done a surgery. So, we realized it's not really a good fit and still remain in the contract. So, what we do, we realized remaining or keeping ourselves into that contractual agreement. It's going to have an eventually it's going to be a bad product and we're going to get hurt by it as well. So, we now have something in our agreement that we actually have the right to get out because we know is not, is not going to happen because, because we want a project with minimum risk, because any risk that comes upon the client, it is our own. What are your top, what are your top red flags? Top red flags are like if I see the owner is looking at the bottom, bottom line only, because if you are, if your client goes to that surgeon and that client of that surgeon thinks the same way, that surgeon will not do the surgery. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Imagine the patient goes to a doctor and says, do my cheek or my face with the lowest price possible without looking at the, you know, before and after or result of the work. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: So, that's the biggest red flag. Another red flag is when a client decides to be the contractor or the architect or project manager. That or we, we, that is one of the, that's the upfront number one red flag where we recommend if you are going to an architect, trust the architect, like when your patient trusts you. When you do a lipo, you put that patient to sleep. That means they're totally vulnerable, vulnerable and trusted you on that table, right? You need to be the same way to an architect. You have to pick somebody that you totally trust and let them do it. Go every day to the project site. Go check things out. You want to change something? Talk to the architect. You want to move something? Talk to the architect. Do not talk to the contractor. Do not express yourself. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Do not talk to subcontractors. Some of them. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: That is, that is number one problem because the moment client starts engaging with the subcontractors and contractors, that's where everything goes wrong. I suggest that interaction should be up front with the architect during design process. And then when the design process is very comprehensive and you don't leave anything out, you've spent enough time to build the project on paper. Therefore, there is nothing going to be afterthought. Okay? So, everything is figured out. You're done. Now it's time for this contractor to build it. And you have your architect as your quarterback during construction, who's watching your back. Watching every step. This contractor is doing. You need to acquire that service from your architect to be involved in construction. But for us, the moment we realized the country, the owner is going to be a project manager or a designer and also help during construction. We're out. We don't take that part because if you don't take that project. That should say something to the surgeon. It's like two surgeons want to do one surgery at the same time. And one of them is not really a surgeon. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we have to talk about permits because it seems to me that's one of the biggest delays. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? By the way, so when you're, when you come on board and you all have figured out a budget. Is there wiggle room there, especially for, obviously, change orders, but the permit situation, the time delays, how do you figure all that out? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Well, everything is somewhat based on we can control the time that we design for a project. That is under our control. We cannot, nobody can control permit. And so, we put a timeline together and say, okay, we design it for, let's say, eight weeks or two months or three months design time. But then we allocate, let's say, two months for permits, depending on what project it is, what complexity it has, what city or county it is. We will put that number according to our experience. Okay. And the, the bed environment and how busy the construction time is. So, we will put that assumption in there is assumed. There is nothing else we can do. And then we assess how much time it takes for back and forth with the county until the permit is ready. So, we give a pretty much a. Not a rosy picture, a pretty tough picture to the client. Right. And tell him, Bob, you need to accept this. It's going to take you two years. Oh, no. I was told by a local architect it's going to take three months. That right there is another red flag. It's a big red flag. You know you cannot talk to this client any further because they are going to hurt themselves like there is no tomorrow. Anybody who says that. They just want to take that project, involve themselves with the project, and after that it's too late to exit. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: And let me tell you one example exactly with regards to that. We had a project, potential project, that they asked us, we want to give you this project, but our condition is you finish and get the permit before December 2020. Exactly that timeline. We looked at the project. We looked at the jurisdiction and we said to the doctor and landlord that this is not possible. This is not realistic. We can do whatever we can in regards to our part. What we cannot promise you, you get and obtain the permit, but that's it. Imagine what the project is still in the process. They went to another architect. They signed the project. They signed the contract with another project. You know, the architect and they just started all the design phase. The project is still in the process from 2020. And that was a small TI. Very small project. Be realistic. That's the whole point. I have a city that they can get back to us in one month. I I'm working with the city that they haven't issued the first round of comments after six months. So, crazy. We have to have plan B always. Always we have to talk to our clients at the beginning of the project. We said, let's, let's plan for good situation. Let's plan for the worst scenario. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Another red flag is clients, doctors who they're going to buy the tile from their friend who's going to give him a discount tile. They're going to bring an electrician to buy their friend who they're going to buy the light ceiling lights from their friend over there. And guess what happens. It complicates the project. The bids are going to be higher because the contractor knows he's not going to have a full project with full profit. So, he jacks up the price and the doctor at the middle of the construction who has been promised to get those lights is not able to get the lights. And the tile is not coming because the right tile is discontinued and now, he has to change. It is so bad. It is so bad. So, because everyone wants to cut cost, I suggest cut cost. But cut cost within time. That you will be spending constructing this project because everything you don't have, you're already for you. That's the amount you have to pay to operate in a hospital. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and often they also have an office that they have to pay for, or they're going to get kicked out in a month. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? And now they have to go somewhere else and scrambling. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: That's true. And a lot of stress. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: We have a lot of stories. We have a lot of stories where, in fact doctors have done work without permit. And the building was sold to a new management, the old management was okay with it because the owner was a doctor to in the dark or owner was agreeing with that. They sold it to a new management; they take over the lease. And the new management realized that thing was done without a permit, which it was against the covenant of the lease agreement. They kick them out. They had a demo the entire space. It was 800, 000 later, after costs for architects, lawyers. demolition of the existing building and getting something interim to go to the new space. 800, 000 later they went to their new home. So, please don't do anything, any work without a permit. Just do it right. Just do it right the first time. Catherine Maley, MBA: Because you're probably not going to ever do it again. So, you might as well do it right and not have to worry about it. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? I know somebody who had the friend that had the wood planking, like the planking flooring. And, and so they, they did that like to save some money. And sure enough, it was very poor quality. So, every time the laser fell or like the laser handle fell, like there'd be a divot in the floor and it was just a nightmare. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yeah. Of course, using the right material for these type of environments is a plot. It's an important fact. How do you Catherine Maley, MBA: know? How do you know when you're just chatting? Like if you're a doctor and you and they're saying, oh yeah, and we have this quality material we're using, how do you know? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Well, who's telling them? Who's telling them? Are you saying the contractor would say something like that, that we have quality material? Oh, well, you, you need to trust the professional. So, if an architect tells you that and they don't deliver it, then they're liable for it. Because for a surgery suite, you have to use, or any medical practice, if you will, healthcare material is required. And the pathogens microbial bacterial in the, in the air, all of that. I mean, especially postcode, people are really, really conscientious about that. You have to trust the professionals. So, if they tell you that they have to provide there is a specifications on the materials, how long they last was the warranty. Same as the pattern and the color, there are other specifications. If there are sustainable materials, if there are green materials, if, you know, what kind of materials are we using? It's from the wood and the cavernous to glue that is in the back of the, if you will you know, planks, if you will, if you use vinyl planks or they are all, they all have specifications and you can read it. You can study it. If the architect, architect must submit those to you. So, as a contract, so the way it works is if you have an architect on board before contract architect specifies in a pretty nice booklet, and that's how the contractor bids the project. But prior to installation, the contractor sent what's called submittal to the architect said it tells the architect I am buying this. Per your specification, have a look and confirm if I'm buying the right thing. Then the architect looks at these specs and says, oh yes, you're buying the right thing, go buy it. Then he goes and buys it and installs it. So, there is a check and balance through the entire construction. If you eliminate the architect during construction, You don't know what you're going to get. So, the architect must start from conception to occupancy, through occupancy. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that is the overall theme here. Start with the architect and use A to Z, the architect, who's going to manage all of this. The surgeon, you stay out of it. You be the surgeon and let them be the project manager, but I would think you're communicating a lot. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Just make sure everyone stays on the same page. Boy, I can just see things going sideways halfway through this project and the doctor saying, that's not what I wanted. I want this instead, you know? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Absolutely. There's a two full communication should be between the architect and you know, it's like Of course, like, for instance, when we start a project, I do a lot of work with the programming. We look at operational analysis, how to streamline the operations, and we do diagrams, expositions of parts and pieces and figure out the score footage and all of that, and then I hand it over to Margie. She will be the, she's the project architect or principal architect. She puts all of that together, and she comes up with a floor plan, and then during the entire process, We have the client involved and they have to be involved and approve every step of it. And so, they will be very involved through, especially our front work. And once, once all the legwork is done and it goes to production, then they don't really have to be involved because it's just production of those drawings for permit, if you will. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: I would say communication is the key. And documentation. So, we are so adamant about documentation through the process of design and construction. And that was interesting experience that I want to share with you. These documentation, even not with the owner or client, also with other parties, like consultants, like landlord, like this and the other, saved our clients a lot of money. We had a project that landlord promised. The client to install new HVAC system, and they had it in email. We archived that and we kept it in our server. And a few years later, the client, after we finished the project, they came back to us and they said they had the issue with the landlord about the renewing the lease. And we send them this previous email because your landlord promised you have this email. And then they could They could get what they deserve from the landlord, what has been promised in their days. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: It was about 25, 000 simple HVAC system that the landlord originally did not change as they had promised. And now they had to, they had asked the tenant to buy a new one, and... That was a no, no. So, we just kept that had that email kept and when we send that, they accepted it was done. Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: We are golden because our because our clients always in the loop that hey, doctor, we talked to this and this and the other. And that's the result of our conversation. So, it's not about only materials or, you know, the other. So, it's everything related to the project. They need to know. And as much as they know more, We are better off. Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Like I said, we architects should be the quarterback for the project. There are a lot of people involved in design and building a surgery center or medical school. There are a lot of people involved and there is one client with limited budget and a big dream. And, and somebody got to be the quarterback, and that's what architects are trained for to do, but unfortunately, the medical world don't use the entire services an architect should provide oftentimes. Architects are in the background behind the contract. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, with that we're going to wrap it up, but this is really interesting. I hope everyone's getting a lot out of this. The detail that goes into this, I had, I knew it was a lot, but this is really a lot. So, I highly recommend you go to www.KohanInc.com. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? com. You've got to check out their gallery of photos. The designs are just beautiful. The offices are gorgeous. You really do great work. Is there anything, any way they can get ahold of you? What's the easiest way to get ahold of you if they want to chat? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional? Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: If they go to www.KohanInc.Com, there is a, a complimentary talk we can have for about 30 minutes. Yes. And, or you can call me on my cell phone or Marzi, either, or we'd be happy to. Answer. I think I always say talent is easy to find, but reliability is hard to acquire. So, we're available. So, just call us on the cell phone. If you go on the online, there is our mobile number. Everything is there. You can call us. You can reach us and schedule a time to talk. Catherine Maley, MBA: And by the way, I'm now offering my free copy of an 81-page guide I did called "Plastic Surgery Marketing, What's Working Now". I decided to give it away for free. full of patient attraction strategies. And you can get that at www.CatherineMaley.com/Free. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on "is architect optional". If you've got any questions or feedback for Marzi or Mohsen you can reach out to their website at, www.KohanInc.com. A big thanks to The Kohan Group for sharing their advice on if an architect is optional. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Is Architect Optional? — with Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch & Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#kohangroup #thekohangroup #mohsenghoreishi #marzi ghoreishi #marziemamighoreishi #architectsforsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeryarchitech #healthcarearchitect #healthcarearchitects | |||
| Faster Way to Scale Your Cosmetic Revenues (Ep. 219) | 18 Aug 2023 | 00:21:15 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to learn a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Faster Way to Scale Your Cosmetic Revenues". The ultimate goal to scaling your cosmetic revenues must include a system that attracts a steady stream of cash-paying patients WITHOUT you spending a fortune on advertising, chasing down leads, hiring more staff, discounting services or performing on social media. When you really get this, you stop grabbing for shiny objects and quick fixes because you have a plan in place to keep "priming the pump" with a steady flow of cash-paying patients you can count on. Listen in on this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast where I talk about:
Because the objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so it's more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time, so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with. See if you're a good candidate for the KiSS Loyalty Club. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Faster Way to Scale Your Cosmetic RevenuesWelcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice and a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice from author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA. Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. And today's topic is "faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues". So, you're going to love this if you're surrounded by competition and you need to stand out and you reluctantly discount your services to attract new cosmetic patients or if too many of your patients don't book again so, you have to spend more to replace them with new patients. And this is also for you if you're interested in a faster, cheaper, easier way to acquire new patients without discounting your services. And if you're looking for a surefire way to increase your patient's value so, you have predictable and reliable revenues month after month. And if you're interested in a new way to cut your advertising budget while still getting new patients. Because when it comes to attracting new surgical and non surgical cosmetic patients, I'm sure you've tried lots of different strategies. Such as designing or redesigning your website. Now, you may have tried a different internet marketing company to design your website the way you wanted it, and then you waited for months for it to be finished, and you were so, excited thinking this is going to change everything and allow for a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. But it didn't. You didn't get ranked like you thought you would, and now you're disappointed that your promised rankings that didn't deliver. So, you were told to pay for Google AdWords and build up your social media channels that will lead them to your new website. So, now you and your staff are spending time on organic social media posting, but the rules keep changing on which is the faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. So, you try to keep up and the apps that are available to help make your post more interesting are also confusing. But they might not be driving new prospective patients to you or it drives the audience to interact with you. But they don't convert to paid treatments. So, then you try social media advertising, but that's a whole other learning curve and it gets expensive testing and trying different ads that actually work. So, oftentimes you get mediocre results and you have no idea why or how to fix it. Or maybe you've tried a membership club, but it hasn't gone well. Maybe it's too complicated for patients to understand and for staff to execute. So, I'll show you a different approach that addresses these typical problems and simplifies everything because here's what's going on in the marketplace. The reality is, patient attraction has gotten intensely competitive, expensive, and super technical. Have you noticed? You may not realize just how insanely difficult it is to attract Now these are consumers roaming around on the internet, clicking around like crazy, and getting overwhelmed with the choice of providers they have. Now that intense competition forces you to market yourself using creative digital strategies. That can be quite technical, as well as expensive, because you're spending time and money to get found on Google and social media platforms. And that's when Google and the social media platforms raise their prices, making your overhead costs go up, which means less profit for you. I mean, let's just take Facebook advertising. There are 8 million monthly active businesses advertising on Facebook, and 1 million more are added each year. That means it's going to cost you a lot more to attract new patients. By the way, Facebook has increased their advertising rates 30% every year because they can. So, here's another huge challenge on gaining a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. Internet privacy issues. The future of Google, Facebook. Instagram and Apple is to not share data like before because of privacy, safety and fraud issues. Now some of them are being sued for billions of dollars by the government for collecting and sharing data about all of us, and that had to stop. Although it feels to me like that cat is already out of the bag. But that means these platforms are not going to allow you to target specific audiences like before. So, online advertising has become very similar to TV advertising. You spray and pray to everybody and hope your target market sees your ads. But you won't be able to track who actually clicks on them unless you have sales funnels set up to capture their contact information. So, suffice it to say, this will make it even more expensive to attract new patients so, you'll spend more and get less results. By the way, I strongly suggest you do everything you can from now on to control your own database of patients, and prospective patients, and your social media friends, and anyone else you know who is or could be interested in your services. And you do that with opt in landing pages that ask for their name, cell phone, and email. This way, even if you're banned from a marketing channel, you can still communicate with your followers. Now the next trend that hurts your bottom line is the decrease of organic social media reach. Organic equals free, and we love that. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. But you may have this false sense of security thinking you're staying in touch with your patients using your social media. When in reality, It's estimated that you can only count on about 5. 2% of your fan base and followers seeing anything you post organically. And why is that? Because they want you to pay to play, but oftentimes they won't approve your ads if you're hurting the self esteem of viewers. So, it's a catch 22. And when you're marketing to the public. You get a real mixed bag of quality leads. So, you have to know, who do you want to work with all day? Complete strangers who don't know you, don't trust you, are skeptical and closed. Or, those patients who know, like, and trust you, wouldn't go anywhere else, and are a pleasure to be around. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. And isn't it easier to convert the established patient who's open to you and your suggestions, than the internet stranger patient who's skeptical and holding back? Also, your established patients are much less price sensitive because they have more to go on than price. They know you and the results to expect because they've experienced your work firsthand. They have peace of mind. They'll get another good result with no hassle. That matters to them more than saving money to a huge majority of consumers. It's also far cheaper to encourage your established patients to return than it is to attract new internet stranger patients to replace them, since it takes a lot to get someone's attention in today's crowded marketplace. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. Now your established patients are also more likely to give you a great review or they are more comfortable with you, so, if they are dissatisfied, There's a better chance they will go to you first before they complain on the internet. And we all know the best new patients come from current patients. That fact seems to be taken lightly in most practices, but it's vital to remember and encourage. Word of mouth referrals are your lifeblood. You'll run out of time, money and energy running a burn and churn kind of practice. The longer you've been in practice, the less you need to exert that kind of time, money and energy. Because, you now have or should have a raving fan club, or at least you could have a raving fan club who returns and refers a lot more often. And here's one more point worth mentioning. I heard a talk given by a VP at Allergan who was talking about a study they did of injectable customers, and learned that one half never returned to you and it's so, true, In your mind, all of your patients come back because those are the patients you remember. The ones that don't come back, you don't know and don't remember. That skews your perception. So, you don't focus on that part of your practice as an issue to address. But this is exactly where to focus if you want a faster, cheaper, easier way to more cosmetic revenues. So, now for the good news, because it's not all doom and gloom. There's always a way and plenty you can do to adapt to these changing times. Now here's the best news of all. Cosmetic consumers have endless needs, such as wrinkles, red and brown spots, blotchy skin, sagging body parts, and unwanted fat pockets. But patients will do all they can to avoid surgery, if at all possible. That's why non surgical is a 3 billion industry and growing. Thanks to social trends, social media, and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the need to look your best without surgery. And let's face it, we females are hard on ourselves. We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves, and then we finally have had enough and we do something about it, and then what do we do? We go find something else that bothers us about us and we focus on that. It never ends and that's what keeps all of us in business. That's why you want to develop that relationship now so, when they're ready for surgery, they choose your practice because they know, like, and trust you already. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. And once they have surgery, They're much more likely to now want your non surgical treatments to keep their new look looking good, especially as the aging process continues. I mean, think about it. Somebody who cares about their appearance will care today and next month and next year and for a lifetime. So, you can become their one stop shop for years to come. And here's more good news. The talk I heard from the Allergan VP reported that while 65 million people in the U. S. would consider facial injectables, only 4 million have been treated. That's only 6% of the U. S. market, so, the room for growth is enormous. And here's another interesting stat. Loyal patients spend 67% more than new patients. And that makes sense because if they know, like, and trust you, they're open to your recommendations and will gladly buy your services when offered. And lastly, a 5% increase in patient retention increases your profits by 25 to 50% because... You already spent the money to attract them. So, now you just have to hang on to them. And recurring patients tend to buy more, return more often, and refer their friends. This increases their lifetime value and decreases your marketing budget. The point is that the faster way to grow your cosmetic revenues is through retention, because now you use the resources you already have. And that's your leverage. Retention costs very little time and money, but adds up to easy profits. So, let me ask you this. How big would your cosmetic revenues be if you didn't lose your patients? You likely have a database of thousands of patients. Can you imagine what would happen to your bottom line if a majority of them returned for more? This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. I know for a fact many of them would gladly return. If given the opportunity, and I'll show you how. So, here's how to scale your cosmetic revenues. You change your mindset, you change the media, you change the market, and you change the message. And I'll go through each one of those now. So, when you change your mindset from a one time transactional patient to a relational lifetime patient, your world opens up to new opportunities. You see things differently. So, rather than see your patients with money signs, see them with love instead. Get excited for them. They want to look good and feel great. So, your job is to help them get those feelings. Focus more on their experience with you and how they're feeling. Remember, this is a consumer with a credit card who has lots of choice when it comes to fun medicine. So, they're going to visit the practice that makes them feel good in a comfortable, fun, friendly way. Please see and treat your patients with love since they're responsible for your success. Now when you treat your patients right, they become lifetime fans rather than one hit wonders. They return again and again and they bring their friends with them. This is key to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. This is the faster, cheaper, easier way to fill your practice with lifetime patients who turn into loyal fans who love you and wouldn't dream of going elsewhere. Please spend more time developing relationships with your patients so, they feel appreciated, acknowledged, and special. It's simple things like smiling and saying hello when a patient walks through the door rather than ignore them when you're working on the computer. And asking them if they're comfortable throughout their treatment. And it's getting to know them as a person. The goal is to make sure they're smiling when they walk out the door. The secret is to make your patients feel special, because they are. Please treat these cash paying patients with friendliness, kindness, and respect. Also, who's your target market? Or, who are your preferred patients? Rather than focus all of your time, money, and effort trying to attract new internet strangers, focus more on your loyal fans. and their friends and family. Give them such a great experience they brag about you to others they know and talk you up online. Because the shortest distance between you and new patients is the girlfriend talking to her girlfriends. It has always been that way and will continue to be the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to grow your cosmetic revenues. Because we trust our friends way more than we trust someone's website. If our friends tell us you're great, we believe them. This is paramount to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. So, do everything you can to give them a wow experience they can't forget. That ensures your name comes up when they're talking about cosmetic rejuvenation. The goal is to create a referral snowball effect, which means one patient refers a friend, then two patients become four, and four become eight, and eight become sixteen, and so, on. And it happens organically without you overspending on advertising. Then, what's the next closest thing to a word of mouth referral? That would be social proof online. Consumers will still check you out online to either verify what their friend said, or to see what others say about you out of curiosity. Now you want to do everything you can to be sure they read only good things about you, and they approve their before and after photos to be used in your marketing efforts. New prospective patients need proof. They need to trust you are the best choice, and reviews and photos do that. And what I love about a good online review is that it's one to many. So, one review is seen by prospective patients online, and that's how you grow your patient list. With your current patients bragging about you, not only to their friends and family, but also online to thousands of other prospective patients searching for help. Please make it a priority to build social proof by taking before and after photos, shoot happy patient videos, and encourage your happy patients to give you a review online. By the way, it's a really good exercise to read not only your reviews online, but also your competitors and even others outside your area. You'll learn a lot about what patients care about, and it will help you improve your own processes. By the way, to eliminate bad reviews, the big no no's are keeping patients waiting, unfriendly staff, scheduling mishaps, and money misunderstandings. And remember, you lose that patient, but you also lose their future revenues and those of their friends you're never going to meet. Now you want to change the media to a multi channel plan. In today's noisy world, you need up to 31 points of contact to get someone's attention. So, basically you need to be everywhere and use all marketing channels. This is required for a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. Your prospective new patients could be using. You can't count on just one way to market. You need lots of poles in the pond working together. That means you need ongoing new content to keep your audience engaged. And here's the most important. Change the message. Because it's so, insanely difficult to get a complete stranger to buy something from you, you'll oftentimes fall back on price, as in lower prices or discounts. That message attracts price shoppers, but then you're frustrated that you're being nickel and dimed to death. So, do you see the catch 22? All of this discounting is hurting your profits and your image, and it's a race to the bottom because you can't compete if you're barely covering your overhead. So, I want to propose a different way. Let's change the message from special promotions to giving your patients kisses towards free cosmetic services. The more they spend, the more kisses they collect to get to different levels. So, using this kiss strategy, one patient who is typically worth 1, 000 to you. is now worth 10, 000 to you because you have a proven system to compel your patients to return more often, refer their friends, give you a review that attracts online prospective patients, and share you on social media so, their followers choose you too. That means a certain number of your patients grow your cosmetic revenues for you organically with preferred patients you want to work with that are just like them. Point being, you implement a system to grow your revenues with the resources you already have. And that gives you leverage and peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues. Do you see how strategic leverage gets you better results with less time and money? If so, you'll love what I have for you coming up. So, with this creative solution, you don't need to advertise discount, hire more staff, or buy more lasers. Introducing the autopilot patient attraction loyalty and retention system called the Kiss Loyalty Club, where your patients get kisses towards free cosmetic services rather than discount. This is a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. And that's because you love your patients and you want more patients just like them. So, that means your patients are going to have fun collecting kisses and you'll keep more profits. Now using our proprietary software and done for you marketing system, we encourage your patients to collect kisses for different levels of services, such as Botox, filler, or laser treatments. And your patients get extra bonus kisses when they grow your practice for you by returning, referring, reviewing, completing surgery, approving their before and after photos. And sharing you on social media so, their friends and followers choose you too. Now the Kiss Club website is at KiSSLoyalty.com and it's different than anything else out there because it's drop dead easy for staff to use, it's fun and compelling for patients, they love it, the marketing is done for you, and it's exclusive to your practice only because it locks out your competitors since patients can only get the kisses from you. It's also different because my team and I play an active role in your results. We take responsibility for your success and we have an obligation to your outcome and that's why we do all the marketing for you so, you don't have to. Now this way you spend more time developing relationships with your patients. Doesn't that make more sense? If so, please go to KiSSLoyalty.com to see if you're a good fit for the Kiss Loyalty Club. We would love to work with you to take care of this part of your practice for you. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Faster Way to Scale Your Cosmetic Revenues".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#scaleyourcosmeticrevenues #scaleyourcosmeticpractice #scaleyourplasticsurgerypractice #getmorepatients #morerevenuesforyourcosmeticpractice #successfulplasticsurgeon | |||
| Commodities Trader to Surgeon — with Lavinia K. Chong, MD (Ep. 218) | 11 Aug 2023 | 00:47:09 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Doctor Chong went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Commodities Trader to Surgeon — with Lavinia K. Chong, MD". Even when you knew you wanted to be a surgeon since you were a kid, the road to get there was bumpy and full of twists and turns. But when you don't know yet what you want to be when you grow up, the road is even bumpier. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Lavinia Chong, MD, a 2nd generation board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Newport Beach, CA. Dr. Chong has a lovely English accent since she was born in London, and her father was a plastic surgeon who then brought the family to America for opportunity. However, Dr. Chong initially wanted to be a flight attendant, but instead became a commodities trader BEFORE she decided to follow in her father's footsteps. But even then, she took the long path of becoming an ER doc, doing maxillofacial, worker's comp, MOHS, and breast reconstruction….all while raising 2 kids with her very hands-on husband. She eventually went 100% cosmetic 15 years ago and hasn't looked back. Dr. Chong also credits yoga that helped/helps keep her sane 😀 Visit Dr. Chong's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Commodities Trader to Surgeon — with Lavinia K. Chong, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Chong went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to get you more patients and more profits. Now, today's guest is Dr. Lavinia Chong, who went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon, and she's a second-generation board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice for the past 20 years in Newport Beach, California, where she grew up. Now, Dr. Chong lived and trained in Mexico before transferring to the Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. Boy, that's a culture shock. And then did a five-year general surgery residency in University of California, San Diego. She then completed a three-year residency at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston Plastic Surgery. Now, Dr. Chong belongs to several medical societies and is a mega yoga enthusiasts. You'll see her on her website. She's knowing what she's doing there. So, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Chong. It's a pleasure to have you on Beauty and the Biz. Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I'm very honored to be here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, you know, what's throwing me off is, how did you pick up an accent when you were, you grew up in Newport Beach, but you've traveled a lot. So, where did that come from? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I was born in London, so, I'm actually a Cockney. My father was training at St. Bartholomew's, which is one of the London teaching hospitals. We lived there for many years, and then he decided he'd emigrate to America at a time when there were, there was a need for recruitment of foreign medical graduates. So, we spent five years in Philadelphia and then we ended up in Newport Beach. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow, you ended up in a very nice part of the United States. Did you, and it's so, nice that you came from Philadelphia to here because then you really appreciate it. I think it would be so, tough to go from California to Minnesota or to Philadelphia, you know, just from weather, you know. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Absolutely. My dad was a, was a, was a pretty sharp cookie and he was he was looking for opportunities. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for him. And so, did you always want to be a plastic surgeon like he did or did some big moment in your life happen? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I wanted to be a flight attendant because I was a I was a language major in college. And I said, I came to my father and he says, no, our people don't do it. I actually finished up I finished high school early. I spent a lot of time at an undergrad at UC Irvine. Then I went to UCLA for a year, dossing around in public health. And I'm like, I really am not getting this. So, I went to England and I dropped out of formal education. And so, what was the call to action was I worked for about three and a half years as a commodities broker. I sold financial futures on the London international financial futures exchange. Catherine Maley, MBA: The jungle, you know, jungle, I can't imagine what did, did you like it? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Oh, it's great. It's a great opportunity for young people. You made, you, you feel like you're really in the thick of things. This is a day before you have a lot of the computer trades and when I worked for a company and they, they, we made masses of money, which is great. When you're young, it's a, it's a great, very, very convivial lifestyle. But I think in the long run, you know, you either end up retiring army and you have laryngeal nodules or you have some odd devices. So, I thought I would go back and. And my dad said, well, good luck to you. No one's going to take you because you're a mature student and you might go to Mexico. So, I did. Did you like it? It was interesting because, backing on my language, I was able to pick up the, the translation pretty quickly and I became the, one of the class scribes because I could understand the language and so, I took all the notes for the class and I told my newly community. newly acquired husband that we would, we would transfer back in one semester, but I got, I had three semesters up there and then I transferred back. So, it was interesting. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, and, and amongst all of that going on, you also ended up having two kids. One or two? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: That was after I got into general surgery residency. I had one in general surgery residency and one in plastic surgery residency. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that's insane. I don't know how you women; a lot of you women are doing that. I don't get it. I, I don't get it. How do you balance that? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Sometimes you, sometimes like they say a blind pig gets an acorn, so, you know, you have to, timing is never right in a lot of the You know, we wanted to, we wanted to have children and we fell pregnant and that was it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you get any sleep those years? I'm, I'm a, I'm a bit of an older trainer. So, five years of general surgery was what was requisite, what was requisite for plastic surgery in my time. And, you know, the hours we worked were longer because that was just what was done, you know, so, I had two weeks for maternity leave for my general, in general surgery for my son and I had three weeks for my daughter and plastic surgery residency. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: So, you learn to, you learn to deal with what you, what you're given. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Would you do it any differently? if you could do it again? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, because I was a mature student, I had a certain kind of time ticking with me because, you know, fertility goes down after a certain age for a woman. And so, you know, I am very lucky to have had a great husband who picked up the picked up the baby hatchlings and just took care of them after I went back to work. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And your husband's not hard to look at either, you know, good job there. Yeah. And he's handy with the children. You can't ask for any more than that. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah, just, just very good, creative, good son, best friend. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, so, glad to hear that. Now did you go into private practice or did you go into academia right away? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? How did you, what was your trip, what was your journey to private? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Well in the sort of spring of my senior year at Galveston, you know, I informed my father I thought I might want to come back to Orange County and he said, good, have you, have you got a job set up? And I go, no, I thought I was going to come home and you're going to pay me a stipend. To which he responded, no. So, that was sort of a pivotal time when my father first came to Orange County, he was one of, like, five plastic surgeons in town. And I think at last count, there probably, we're probably over 150 right now. Of course, you are. So, you know, he was, he was one of the old guards. So, I think in a sense, he said, go away and see if there's anything else you like better. Yeah, I make sure that this is something that you're really coming to with your eyes open. So, I went off and I looked, I interviewed and I came home. Catherine Maley, MBA: He's the old school parenting. I had that as well. I, I miss that. I think I; you know, you really learn who you are and, and your pain tolerance and how much stronger you are than you think you are. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You know, I think it's, I think it's important to know that in any kind of business and marketing, what you want and what you need are two different things. And you really have to have a good sense of who you are and what's going to work for you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Did you go into Recon and did you try to balance both Recon and Cosmetic or are you just Cosmetic? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? What's your percentage? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You know, for the first, for the first A couple of years I was straight. I was an ER doc. I worked three ER panels. I took everybody who's called who would give it to me. You know, I did, I did maxillofacial trauma and then I got into the workman's comp thing and I did a bunch of hand surgery. And I, then I was offered a position on a managed care group. And so, I became a breast cancer reconstruction surgeon and I did. And I was starting to see a bit of cosmetic but I was doing mostly bread and butter. Mohs chemo surgery repairs, some more maxillofacial, bed sores, and a lot of the, the basic breast reductions, which I think I still love to do nowadays, but I think at the end of the day, When I had a requisite following and I, I do, I do go over and look at my, my database from time to time and just see who's coming in the door, what, what they're asking for. And I, after I had that critical mass, I said, okay, I'm out. I'm not going to do that anymore. So, I've been 100% cosmetic for about 15 years now. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. Was that a tough decision to make? Did you starve the first like year or two to get the no, not really? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, I'd been drafting and building in the cosmetic and then what I think was hardest was Letting go of my breast cancer reconstruction patients, because I think in a sense, when you travel with a woman through a year of building a breast, you oftentimes see women who are my age or maybe even younger, and you have that sort of sense of empathy and say, Hey, my life could be a lot worse. And they inspire you to get some better, more innovative solutions to their problems. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you think it was helpful that you were a female plastic surgeon working with these females? Because talk about an emotional journey. I mean, cosmetic patients are emotional, but in a fun way. Breast, breast reconstruction is serious, emotional handholding. Did you think that helped, you know, you being a woman? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I do. And I think it's also, I give credit to my office because we had, you know, we'd have people who just sit in the chair and cry for an hour. And the thing is, you know, and, you know, after I gave him a hanky and said, Yeah, I, I know it's a scary thing, but here's where we'll start, and we'll start, and we won't always get there on one thing. So, I, I think in a sense, to have that patience and to have the staff who would hold, hold the appointments longer for me, that, that gives, I would definitely give credit to the whole team to, to know that, okay, here's a breast cancer reconstruction. Sorry, I, I can't do the Botox today because I'm going back to the ER because I've had a problem. Things like that. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's very difficult to juggle the two of them and do it well. You know, you'll often alienate somebody there. So, absolutely. Yeah. So, all right. So, you walked away from that. I will tell you though, in California I've been at this for a long time, quite a few of the doctors were building ORs. At the time workers comp was handling breast reduction very you know lucratively and in the middle of them building out these, you know, 6 million projects they shut that down. You know, like there just wasn't the, the reconstructive reimbursement like there was. And I mean, boy, you, you know what, no matter what you're doing, there's something could side blind, blindside you, you know, whether it be government regulations, whether it be the economy, you just never know. Have you found that to be challenging, trying to figure out what your next move is with things going on externally? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I think so. I mean, I probably would say to you, I read more. I read the news online. I try to, try to talk to my colleagues and say, is this something specific or do I, or is this just some bad journalism that's making, to make your coronary squeeze? But I think there's one thing that's certain, change is inevitable and you're going to have to put some energy in there and you, and you may have to, to abandon old sacred cows because you, you cannot do the same thing that you did at the beginning of your career. There's, there's a whole life cycle to surgeons, to businesses, to, to even ideas. And so, we're, we're changing and that's, that's the one constant in life. And, and it's, it's difficult to change for some people, but you know, I've, I've tried to bob and weave to keep on that. Catherine Maley, MBA: And you have to because a lot of the surgeons think, no, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm leaving soon anyway. I'm just going to go stay status quo. And the world will walk all over you. You, you can't even stay status quo. You have got to, to change with things. You don't have to do major, major, but Boy, you've got to go where the patients are going, where they're, where they're going for their information how they want to be worked with or talked to or consulted with. Things are changing quickly, aren't they? Dear Lord. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You know what? It just means that you have to dig down deeper and find some tools in your toolkit. And then, I mean, there's some things I don't do in cosmetic surgery because I just don't want to do them. But, like what? I don't do a lot of prison and butler. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I know you're going to say that. Yeah, I hear you. It's a different crowd. It's a different, it's just a different animal. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah. Other things I don't think, you know, realistically, if I don't have my heart in it, I can't, I can't do a great job. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I understand. The regarding staff, you have this triple A. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? What is your triple A staff stand for? Able, available, and affable. I love that. They need to be, they need to know what to do. They need to be on the sites, and they have to be nice. Because nice is, is, it does nothing if you're not, if you don't know what you're doing. How do you get them to do that? I am struggling with that in quite a few practices that I don't know what the staff, I don't know I just innately knew customer service, like be nice to people, and be friendly, and be enthusiastic, because I've got that down. Thanks so, much. But I just took that for granted. I thought everybody was like that. And then I go into these practices and I think you literally have the patient deterrent department working for you, you know? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Well said. I mean, I think in a sense, my father didn't give me that, that, that knowledge because he had one girl Friday, he has a series of per diem scrub texts and things were done a lot differently in the seventies and eighties. So, you know, that was my first job to get the, the office accredited when I came out of residency. And my response was, I don't know how to do that. And he, he replied to me, you'll learn. I love you, dad. Yeah. So, I mean, I was like, okay. I think in looking for staff, I've looked for people who would be not threatening to patients, because I think when patients come in, They're nervous, they're worrying about what's it going to look like, who's going to look after me, how much does it cost, do I have the trust issue, will it be somebody I know and they're going to gossip about me, so, I mean we've, we've, we've had a number of iterations but what I'm so, happy about, because like most surgeons I hate to retrain, I've had pretty much got stable staff for quite a long time now, even after COVID or before COVID. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh! What's your secret? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I talk to people a lot, and I ask people, I'm like, what do you think? You know, do you think this is where we should be going? We, we, we have a lot of meetings, and we, we break it up a bit. And, and when I, when I have something that's bothering me, I really talk to people up, up, up front. And I go, look, this has been creeping me out, and I, I would really like you to help me do this, this, and this. If, can you, do it? If you can do it, that's great. And if you don't want to do it, tell me why. Catherine Maley, MBA: Peace. Lavinia K. Chong, MD: It's not always easy to be a female boss because I've grown into that role over the years. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why I'm asking. Females definitely, and I don't, I don't want to pull the gender card at all, but you need to be a tough boss, yet a compassionate boss. Like the women, there's a bigger balance there. Women working with women. We are hard on each other. I don't know what that's all about, but we are. So, if you can balance that good for you, are you really good at hiring? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Do you have some secret tips for hiring the right people? Cause that's half the battle, just getting the right people on there on the board. Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, I've, I've gone through the typical routes. I was very lucky sometimes. Like I say, luck has a lot more to do with ability because in COVID, we closed for about six weeks and then we came back and we added an extra operating day because people couldn't travel and they would look at those faces on zoom and go like, I need something. So, having my own office based surgical suite, it made it very convenient and safe. You know, basically my chief, my, my per diem nurse decided to retire in July. So, I just put, I put out ads on zip recruiter and LinkedIn and indeed, and I got a wonderful little nurse. And then when she said, this is more than I can handle. I put, I put the ads out again, but I think it was the, I would like, I would like to think it was the authenticity of the ad that I placed. People came in and said, yeah, that's pretty much what you asked for. Yes, I can do that. Catherine Maley, MBA: That good for you because people were really struggling to find nurses. They couldn't even do surgery half the time because they didn't have enough staff. So, I don't know how you did that, but that's fantastic. Let's talk about your surgical suite for a second. Had you always had that or built that out recently? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: No, that was, that was something my dad always had, and he's the original tenant in this, in this office building. My husband is actually a very talented architect, and he's done a lot of surgical suites for my competitors in town. And they are gorgeous. And he does dentistry and veterinarian, but he knows the codes very well. And so, we're a terrific cross pollination, because he'll ask me, well, where do I need to put this? And so, I'm like. I don't know anything about reproductive endocrinology, but I can find out a few. So, what we have is we have a surgical suite where we have, we don't, we do a low volume and I like to think a high quality because my direct employees are the nurses and the scrub tech. I have a cadre of anesthesiologist, MD anesthesiologist. And I do use some CRNAs and our practice consultant is a great lady who gets everybody scheduled and put together. But we don't do any general anesthesia. So, we do everything under a heavy MAC, which is, which is primarily predicated on the fact that this is an older office building. I don't have adequate ventilation for scavenging. And if there was an issue that I needed to, to treat with, I would be able to have the anesthesiologist. stop the propofol, wake them up in theory, and just run them down the stairwell. So, so, I mean, it's all for patient safety. We still have a general anesthesia machine. We have all the, the accoutrements that the licensure requires. We have regular drills. But we find that the monitored anesthesia care allows the patients to recover a little bit quicker. For when I'm doing facelifts, I don't have a tube to stent the trachea. I don't have to worry about extubating the patients. You know, our rates of post operative nausea and vomiting, although not zero, are very, very low. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you find that the patients like that option? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Because, I mean, I think in a sense with social media and reality TV, they see everybody going like this when they are on, on reversal, and mostly people wake up and they go, have we started? I'm like, no, we're done. Right? So, it's a much gentler transition when they come back up again. So, yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now what, what, what is it called? Is it like twilight, like a colonoscopy, or what kind of anesthesia? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: It's pretty much, it's pretty much propofol. I, I, I leave it to the anesthesia providers to take care of it, but we also do put local in and the local buffers, the whatever they do in the. First said, or some benzos and maybe some, a little bit of tiny bit of fentanyl, but it's very timely because right now with the, with the fentanyl crisis, people are really scared about opioids. And so, you know, I've had husbands call me up and go, you gave my wife 10, 10 Norco. I'm like, she's not going to overdose, but they're, they're really terrified. And when they go. You gave my wife Norco intraoperative. I'm like, I gave her 25 mikes, but they just want to know that their wives are going to be safe. Now, when they know that it's just local and propofol, obviously with the, with the Jackson, Michael Jackson death, there was some controversy over propofol, but it is a, it's a wonderful medicine, which is very powerfully anti-nausea genic. It's out of the system probably in about 48 hours. And it, and it really makes people incredibly. Comfortable as a, as a sedative hypnotic, Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm all for that. I had general and it was the worst experience. And I thought if you want me to get up and walk out of here, don't give me general. I'm sicker than a dog. I don't know what I'm doing. Like I'm a train wreck. And I do you think, are you, is that different for you? Is that a good differentiator for you in Newport beach or is everybody doing that now? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I think there are increasingly more people who are doing things like my colleagues who do the light lift, where it's mostly IV, either IV sedation or IM with some oral sedatives, because there, there's a, now a, a great development of things like I would call them designer drugs. MKO melts, Midazolam Ketamine and Ondansetron, which is a tablet which is put underneath the patient's tongue. The small procedures, you can do that if the patient's particularly nervous and it puts them a little bit dissociated. So, I mean, I do a lot of stuff under local because we do talk a seizure to just to have to stop, help the people and just say, no. Just a little squeeze here, just a little stick and burn. And again, people love the idea that they're saving. It's safe, number one. Safety is number one. Two, that they don't have to pay for the anesthesiologist. Three, that they, they, they can participate a little bit, because we do eyelid lifts on the local. We do sliding brow pexies, upper lip lifts. And so, these are things that are not particularly uncomfortable. And you, you don't have to put people to sleep with that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. And I like it as a marketing edge, you know the patients are waking up to that. That's, oh, that's a pun. They're they, if they don't have to go under, under and under general we've all, we've all heard the stories and that's all it takes is some celebrity story. The, the poor woman that Asian author or something died and. In New York and like nobody wanted to go under general. They were canceling all their surgeries. It's just nice to have that option. So, good for you. Regarding staff, do you have, like, what's your feeling on surgical versus non-surgical? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Are you just a surgeon? Do you also want to grab that patient on the way up to surgery or take them on the way down from surgery to non-surgical? What's your feeling? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: A lot of my, my patients start as, as young. Mothers and their, their, their budget and their aims are on Botox, and then maybe they'll graduate to eyelids, and then a couple of them will then go to switching out their breast implants, you know, because they say, like, this worked for me when I was 20, but my 15-year-old son keeps saying, cover that up, mom. So, I mean, it's the whole life cycle of a patient. you know, I'm happy to travel with them because I'm like, well, I keep waiting for my boobs to come in, but they're, they're obviously not going to come in this lifetime. So, you know, we have a lot of fun. We just, we, it's like, For me, it's like, I like going to work because I'm having a lot of gossip with my patients, so, I, I do a little Botox, I, you know, I learn about trends from them too, because they'll say to me, well, what about this? What do you think about this? I'm like, I don't really know what this is. So, you know, they, they are my way to kind of to filter what people are interested in learning about. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, regarding your growth, do you want to stay small? Do you want to grow? Do you want to bring on an associate so, you can slow down eventually? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Do you have an exit strategy? What's your feeling? Are you going to die at the table, like some surgeons? Or do you have a plan to exit and still have some time to travel? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, I think the thing is, My husband wants to travel. And so, I'm actually actively recruiting a couple of associates, but I think it, you know, I would need to have somebody who could really be able to take advantage of the accreditation and to be able to feel comfortable working in this, this environment because it's small, but the thing is, it's got everything it needs for patient safety and it's got a killer view of the ocean. So, I mean, Can't, can't you learn to accommodate? We already have the relationships with, with wonderful anesthesia providers. I can't always guarantee that the staff would go to a successor, but if they, if they treat them well, who knows? I have a young staff and the staff are very good at what they do. And they're very kind and genuine to the patients. And that's why we are, we usually get a lot of internal referrals. We don't do a lot of advertising, but the patients just drag their friends. Catherine Maley, MBA: I've always said, that's how you do it. You can do it the harder way, doing the one and done. Throw a ton of money at advertising, where your staff out trying to find that needle in a haystack of the 100 leads and two of them actually want surgery, or you can just really change your mindset, treat that patient as somebody you're going to know for a lifetime and you will, you could know them for a lifetime. I am one of those patients. I'm worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Please to somebody because as you get older, if you care about how you look, you're going to keep caring even a lot more as the aging process steps in and the social trends change, and all of the arrows are, are like, the demand is not going anywhere. It's just increasing. So, I just don't see why most. I just don't see why you don't do it that way. Like, why not build a word-of-mouth practice, the patients love you. Talk about a consultation. How do you like doing a consultation with a complete stranger, who doesn't know you from Joe Schmo, versus the patient who comes from her sister, who loved her result. She showed it off to her, the other sister and said, Oh my God, I want what she has. Isn't there the biggest difference between that? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You're definitely pre-qualified if you come from an internal referral. Yeah. But, you know, with telemedicine, like we're doing today. I get a chance to be myself, like yesterday I talked to a young woman and I said, I asked my staff, please schedule virtual consults at the end of the day, because again, I can spend as much time with them and they can pick my brain as much as they want to and I can keep talking till they go zip it. But the thing is, I see in the sense of a consult, I'm not looking at my clock all the time because My job as a consult, as a consultant, is to really try to give them as much of information that I think they would need to know, and they might not know the questions to do it, so, I still have the same vibe with that, but the thing is, the virtual consults have been fun for me, because I'm like, I don't have to care about if I, if I smell like I've been in the OR, which I have usually been, or if my hair is not perfect, because I'm like, you know, What do you want to talk about today? I'll keep talking until you tell me. Time out. Catherine Maley, MBA: Regarding marketing, where are these patients coming from? Are you, do you have a big net out to the world or are you trying to stay local or what's your marketing plan? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Good question. I had the girls pull out procedure value hour, how long it takes me to do a case, and what thing, I had them look at referral sources, and how many people were doing these things, and we had, and how many conversions we had from people. virtual consultations versus in consults, and it used to be about 50 50, but I'm actually converting more on virtual consults now. No kidding. Which is crazy, but I think I'm, I am pretty much what I am, what you see is what you get, whether you're looking at me on the, on the screen or whether you're, you're smelling the fact that I'd be in the office and stuff like that. So, I mean, I think what we're doing is we're trying to codify it a little bit more. And that's where I think in the stuff, we're about ready to ramp up and bring another administrative stuff because that my women have different talents. I have one woman who's extremely all about the metrics and I think you have to. As a, as a provider of service, look critically at what you do, what you do well, if it takes you 12 hours to do a facelift, maybe you shouldn't be doing facelifts. If you, if you have a lot of take backs for bleeding from, from breast augs, maybe you shouldn't be doing breast augs or something like that. But things, we do a lot of that and we look at it quarterly. So, that's part and parcel of our marketing strategy to see how many. Procedures we've done if it's a particular type, whether there's been any problems with complications and that that goes along hand in hand with the, with the credentialing we have to do for the facility, and then where the new leads come from, and we track everything in that sense. So, I think before we can actually go and do much further as a solo practitioner, I don't want to compromise outcomes by doing it. Thank you. a larger volume. I would rather be, consider myself a bespoke tailor. I'll be more of somebody who's rather than forever 21. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Well, and know thyself. If, I mean, as long as I just think it's all about you being comfortable with what you're doing and the services you're providing. And if you're, I completely agree, I would pick the procedures that you enjoy doing the most. And then if you want to look at it analytically, Just pull that report that says revenues by, revenues by procedure, revenues by zip code, revenues by referral source, and just make your life easier. It's always going to be that 80 20 rule, you know, 80% of your revenues are coming from 20% of somewhere. The secret is knowing where the somewhere is. A lot of times you just don't even know anymore, but you know what they've made, they forced us into all this technology, which is so, mind blowing that they, they can track everything now. They, every click, every, every, every little thing you're doing can be tracked. So, I'm glad you have an analytical person in there because somebody needs to want to do that. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah. And she, she's, she's good. She works with the website and I mean, we do, we dabble in a bit in social media, but mostly you see what I like to eat or I travel. Catherine Maley, MBA: I was going to ask you about social media because it's, you're not, and you can tell you're not. You're doing a little of it, you know, that's why I know your husband, I love your husband. And you can, and the travel looks fantastic, but is it part of your plan or you're just kind of doing it because you're supposed to do it? Or do you think it's a, a viable marketing channel for you? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I don't think it's; I don't think it's. It's, it's our prime lead. Because I think we have a different patient population about a year and a half, two years ago, I asked the girls, I asked them, who is my ideal patient? I really knew the answer at that time. And who is it? It's, it's usually a woman who's between 45 to about 65. And, you know, there's a certain amount of history between us. We, like I said, we've come from med spa services to doing smaller procedures than going up there. And that's why we, we tend to, our two big leaders are probably eyelids, facelifts and revisional breast and some breast reductions. You see, because I'm not super judgmental. I, my, my father was never much of a breast man. You know, I, I loved, I like to do breasts. I like to do a lot of breast lifts and breast reductions and just seeing how things change and aesthetic ideals are replaced from the Pam, Anna Nicole Smith and Pamela Anderson's from the late 90s, early 2000s, and now we're looking at the yoga breasts and that's my specialty, so, because the women are more like me and I think we end up having people who like to stretch and like to, I realize they're getting older, but they're okay with that. And they just say like, you know, I just want to comfort my body. I just don't want to have to have something that, you know, I have to get, spend a lot of time getting dressed on. So, we're a little bit more laid back in that sense. So, that's why I don't really go for the Brazilian butt lifts. And I don't want to, I don't want to look at people's privacy. Catherine Maley, MBA: But that that demographics amazing, like 45 to 65 females. I love the older woman. She's more mature. She cares about your skill and certifications. And yeah, more so, than, you know, did I, did they see you online? They have the financial wherewithal oftentimes more so, than the younger person, but you don't like tummy tucks. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I do, and that's my other little tiny, tiny niche one, because I do have marriage tummy tuck, tummy tuck, so, through the size of a small c section scar. You can, I can actually advance it a little bit more, and I do love toys, so, I bought myself a Hoyer's retractor, which is literally a big, a big upper hand, and so, I can go through a very small incision for people who don't have a lot of skin, they're not heavy, but they've got mostly that splay in their belly that gives them that roundness there. We can go through. Detach the belly button and then just repair it, put the belly button down and keep the scar really small. So, that's my, my favorite. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, they don't need that hip-to-hip smile line? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: But it's, it's, it's all patient selection in this valley. So, it's, if they're, if they're a big woman, that we're going to lipo the flanks. We're going to go from hip to hip. But these are the smaller ones. We had a nice lady who came and did telemedicine yesterday and I, I was very relaxed and she booked today. So, I said, look, she goes, I said, what bothers you? She goes, I have a depressed portion of my C section scar. I've had three kids and it makes me embarrassed. And I'm like, What have you got to be embarrassed? You have an awesome body, you've got good, even skin, you don't have any stretch marks, but you've got that little central pooch around your belly button, and it goes a little bit up there by your ribs, it's good. All you need is just to repair the muscle, pull it down a little bit, done. Catherine Maley, MBA: If you want my two cents, a scar less, tummy tuck, like I would write a little guide book on it, give it away as a free pdf guide use it as an opt in on your webpage the, the scarless tummy tuck guide five things you want to know about it. I mean, if Everybody who wants a tummy tuck doesn't get one because of that darn big scar. And at that point, you're not saying it's for everybody, but here like download this, and this is how this is the perfect candidate. I would make a big deal out of that because you're in such a competitive area and a ton of women who want something done without that scar. God, I think that's a big, I think you're onto something there. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, it is, it is, it is. Because I'm small and lazy. I hate to lipo a lot, spider to Brazilian butt lifts. But you could do and we're, I mean, we've done, we did one two weeks ago and she just looks fantastic and she's at the length of the scar. We can control, but it's mostly like we've learned with whether it's deep lane or smash, it's putting the foundation on the deeper layer. Yeah. And then the skin just. populates over it. But the, I mean, if you selected and you're very honest with the patients and go like, you know, you wouldn't be a good candidate because you have just that much more skin. But it's, it's been, it's worked out well for me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I love it. So, we're going to wrap it up now. Tell, give me a big challenge you had when you were growing your practice. What was the biggest challenge you had? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I think, I think the big challenge is, is going from girl to woman, woman to boss, and that is a gender specific, specific problem, because I joined an intergenerational practice, so, I still have my mom telling me like, Why are, why are breasts so, big? But it was a different, different sort of cultural mindset. And then for being able to jump and have the, the courage or maybe the foolhardiness to go ahead and drop off, drop off of insurance and become straight Cosmo. That was, that was a leap of faith. But I've had a lot of good people helping me along the way. My husband, my staff. You know, I have some good friends in town who are plastic surgeons, you know, and general surgeons who, you know, I talked to and I'm like, well, where do you think this is going? But it's really to, to, to try to be fairly open minded and to have self-knowledge and to know what you can do and what you can do well and what you should step away from. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. And then is there anything in particular that you would say to anybody coming up in the industry? Maybe any advice for them? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah, don't build a Taj Mahal before you have the requisite patients in place. Yeah. Because, you know, there have been, in 2003 I was the program chairman for plastic surgery at Hogue. And I think I, I call myself mother of plastic surgeons, because I think I signed on 12 plastic surgeons in a year. And some of them are no longer here. So, I mean. There's, there's, this is a gorgeous place and there's always a place for you to sit down and make a little farm but you have to be good to the patients and to your staff and to yourself and your family because if you're cranky pants it's, it's going to come through and people will, will like I'm not going there because, you know, she's, she's too self-possessed, pest possessed so, I mean, I think you just have to know what you can, I'll tell young people, you have to sometimes eat what you kill. But you have to be able to know that you don't have to eat a lot. You, you have to know what your running costs are and, and just, you know, not be shy to say, like I, that's not something that's in my, my experience. I would have to defer to you and to be very honest, because that's how you build a practice. Right. How much has yoga helped you? Is that still a big part of your life? Oh yeah, I do four classes a week and I don't do, I don't do the hot yoga like my daughter likes because my husband does, goes with me and he doesn't want to sweat the smell of other people's beer. But it started after my father died because he, he fell down. The thing is, I used to think that yoga was important for the meditative, the sort of reflective capacities, but it's really important for balance, and it is my go-to drug instead of drinking. I'll take it out of work because, I mean, I, I look around and, and if you ever think about it, who takes care of the plastic surgeon? Someone's going to be taking care of you because I get so, much so, much little vignettes and life perceptions from my yoga teachers. I'm like, okay, I'm good. I'm going to steal that Yeah, so, I mean, it's made me very happy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, I did yoga several times and I just don't have the personality for it I tried the hot yoga. I thought it was disgusting. Yeah, we were all like, like their feet are in my face. I just couldn't do that. I couldn't concentrate because it was so, gross. And then I've tried the regular yoga and I just don't have, I just have, I don't know if I have ADD or what, but I hate, it's just too slow for me. I, I like to hike and, and like fly up hills, you know, and I have my dog. Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Is it, you've just put your, you've put, you've identified the thing is that you have to move, you have to work on your balance, you have to work on your strength and conditioning because even though I like to operate, I don't like to operate on somebody because they neglected their own health. And I think it's important that people move and I'm about ready to, to shoot a video for yoga and I, I'm not going to go there to try to show what a hotshot I am and how I can stand on my head. But it's just important that we move as we, we get older because what, what killed my dad was a fall, you see, and it was because he was deconditioned. So, yeah. That's, that's pretty much just if you do Pilates, you do pickleball, you do golf, you hike, do something. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's why I think us, we who live in California, the best thing that ever happened to me, not politically here, but physically and spiritually I came from Chicago and they were just drinking themselves and smoking themselves to death and watching three football games, you know, a Sunday. And I thought, Oh my god, I got to get out of here, you know and then I moved to California and I started jogging and like, where else can you do that where you can be outside every day the weather permitting, you know, it's just so, much easier here to be healthy. So, I really appreciate that. I got that bug the minute I moved here. I went, I am now an exerciser. Lavinia K. Chong, MD: See, you're a canny woman and the thing is you take responsibility for your life. You know that things will change. But if you feel like you can make it, that's the existential existentialist challenge, do something so, you can make things better for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: And do you have the cutest dog on the planet? Please tell me he's still around. Lavinia K. Chong, MD: That's my brother's dog. I only, I only have partial ownership on him, but he's, he is, he's a, he's a shameless scrounger. Catherine Maley, MBA: He is so, funny in Instagram. He's like the, like photogenic. What kind of dog is it? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: He's an English bulldog. And believe me, he's had a lot of cosmetic surgery. He's had a quad bluff. He's had a uvular palatoplasty. He's been fixed. He's had a, he's had something to do with his, his plumbing, his male plumbing. So, I don't think it was lengthening. I think it was putting the lipstick back in. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, he's adorable. So, the last question is the fun one. Tell us something we don't know about you. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: It's probably in the public domain. I'm a shameless Golden State Warriors fan. Catherine Maley, MBA: I did see that somewhere. That's so, funny. Yeah. Where did that come from? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Because my daughter was a water polo player at Cal Berkeley. And when she quit playing, I had to watch something, you know, like fake, fake, shoot, drive, drive, fake, fake, shoot. So, I, I think in a way. Why I love, I love the sports part, and I used to watch the Sixers when I lived in Philadelphia, but I think it's something about the little chemistry of this team and the fact that they take their lumps. And that's what we all have to do at the end of the day. I just finished watching Underrated with Steph Curry yesterday. But it has to do is that sometimes we're not always winners. Sometimes when we get to the top of the mountain, and then we crash down to the bottom of the valley. But it is that, it is that idea of how you can reorganize, and you can, you can embrace your teammate, or your patient, or your staff member, and your anesthesiologist, and you can regroup. And if it's meaningful, you'll, you can make it work. And you may never be up at the top of the mountain again, but you can do something, and you have a certain amount of satisfaction there. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. The analogy there on the teamwork thing. If you, the, the more I learn how to, when you add staff to your life, it's such a new concept. You didn't go to school for that. You had no leadership courses at all. And you have to learn that on the fly. The sooner you learn that it's a team. It's not them against you. It's not, you know, ah, so, much to that. But if you can get that teamwork down, just the analogy is just like a sports team. Nobody's the big prima Donna. They are for a minute, but everyone's got to be helping them. So, anyway if anybody wanted to get ahold of you, how would they do so? Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Through our either by phone, we, we are on that. We aren't set up to have a virtual appointment. Boyden said, so, you still have to talk to a real human being. So, we're, we're the Newport Medical Plaza. Our number is (949) 644-1400, or you can visit our website at www.ChongMD.com. Catherine Maley, MBA: www.ChongMD.com. Your name just keeps throwing me off. You, you, you, you are you are like the United Nations, huh? You've been around. Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah. You know what? Being married to an Englishman, we are, we are literally two days. different. He's two days my senior. So, we, we do, we are like twins and we've grown up together, but thank God, he keeps me grounded. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, well, well, he's amazing. Hang on to him for sure. All right. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Chong went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Chong, you can reach out to her website at, www.ChongMD.com. A big thanks to Dr. Chong for sharing her journey of going from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Commodities Trader to Surgeon — with Lavinia K. Chong, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drlaviniachong #laviniachongmd #newportbeachplasticsurgeon #newportbeachcosmeticsurgeon | |||
| Booked Out 2 Years — with Jerry Chidester, MD (Ep. 217) | 04 Aug 2023 | 01:11:40 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Doctor Jerry Chidester is booked out 2 years. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Booked Out 2 Years — with Jerry Chidester, MD". It's common for cosmetic practices to grow slowly. The surgeon needs time to get their footing and try different things to see what works to attract patients and build a reputation and following. And sometimes, that slow burn ignites and creates unforeseen demand and unexpected growth. That's what happened to my latest Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest Dr. Jerry Chidester (known by his patients as Dr. Chiddy) is a board-certified plastic surgeon in solo practice in Salt Lake City, Utah, and is booked out 2 years. In a very short time, Dr. Chidester has over 50K IG followers, a 2-year wait list, 208 google reviews at 4.9 rating, associates and already did one build-out, with big plans to expand even more — all while being 2 years booked out. And, on the personal front, he is raising 3 kids with his wife Mindee (also his high school sweetheart) who is helping him grow their empire. Listen in as he explains how he's doing it. Even though he makes it look easy now, he is really a 10-year overnight success ;-) Visit Dr. Chidester's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Booked Out 2 Years — with Jerry Chidester, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Doctor Jerry Chidester is booked out 2 years. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. And I'm very excited about today's guest who's booked out 2 years. He's very unusual, very different than like the normal say. So, today's guest is Dr. Jerry Chidester, who's a board-certified plastic surgeon in Salt Lake City, Utah. Now, he performs plastic and reconstructive surgeries for the hand, body, and face in his accredited Quad ASF surgical facility. Now, in a very short time, Dr. Chidester has over 50,000 Instagram followers and a very long waiting list. And it wasn't easy. So, we're going to talk about how he got there already. And then on a personal front, I just love this. He married his high school sweetheart, Mindy, and she's super involved. I feel like I know her because I've watched so, much of their social media. He's very authentic about that. And on top of everything that he's doing right now, He's also raising three children who are absolutely adorable and look just like him. And he's building this empire with being booked out 2 years that we're going to talk about. So, Dr. Chidester, thank you so, much for coming on Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you. Jerry Chidester, MD: Thank you so, much for having me. I'm glad we got to connect again. And that was finally worked out for both of us. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, it's been like over a year. We've been trying to do this. So, let's just start with your name. Who thought this was a good idea to call you "Chidester". I struggled with that name. When they were coming over on the boat, couldn't they have simplified it or what? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Is there a... Yeah, it's English. So, it comes from Chichester, you know, like the Manchester, Lancaster. So, Chichester, England, it's a city. It's a yachting town. I've never been there. I've heard it's nice. But yeah, I think when they came through, you know Ellis Island, they just thought, Hey, I'll just turn the CH to a D. So, it became Chidester and stuck ever since. And you know, some people say Chydester, Chydster. I have so, many misspellings. It's unreal. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, so, you were smart enough. Who decided to start calling you Dr. Chiddy because that was brilliant. That I can say easily. And I'm sure that's what your patients are saying. Who, how, who thought of that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, it actually goes back to high school. So, I had a friend, you know, the, the old show, "Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang". So, my friends called me Chiddy and I honestly, I didn't love that name when I was in high school. I didn't like it, but yeah, after, you know, finding, having patience and no one could say my last name or spell it kind of, I brought that back. I was like, let's go by Chiddy. Cause I had a friend who was trying to help me rebrand when I was. You know, updating my Instagram, he said, we need a name that like sticks for people, you know, and he was trying to say like Utah surgeon, and we found all these different names, but really wanted to just brand it for myself. And so, we went with Dr. Chiddy. So… Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm so, glad you did that because I, we can all say Chiddy. We cannot say "Chidister". Jerry Chidester, MD: I don't even call myself that now. I forget that that's my first last name. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, this was super interesting. I normally ask you, so, how did you get interested in plastic surgery? And somehow as a kid, you were in Saudi Arabia. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? So, tell us that story. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. My dad's a dentist. He retired last year. He's a general dentist. And when I was little, I think I was about six or seven years old. I have three younger sisters. So, I'm the oldest of four kids. My mom's from Thailand, you know, so, we had lived in Thailand for a little bit. My dad's from Salt Lake city, so, he had opened a practice here in Utah, but he wanted to be. A little adventurous, try something new. So, in the late 80s, he took a job with the royal family in Saudi Arabia. So, we all moved there. Again, I was like six or seven. I lived there for most of my childhood. I came back when I was in middle school, but I love that experience. I went to international school. All my friends were from, you know, all over the world. So, I think early on, I just was exposed to a lot of different cultures, religions, you know, backgrounds, ideas, beliefs. And, and I grew up on this hospital compound. So, all I like. All I saw was this hospital. My friends, parents were all doctors. And so, kind of groomed me, I think, to think that that's what I wanted to be. It was a doctor, you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. I really believe that all of us, especially Americans need to travel abroad to get a bigger perspective and understand the pros and cons and appreciate. more what they have quite frankly. So, let's talk about your journey to private practice because first of all, you don't look old enough to be a surgeon, quite frankly. And then I found out you had a 14-year-old. So, that really threw me off. So, so, I'm just getting older because now everyone's starting to look a lot younger, but it sounds like you were in LA. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Like where did you go? Where was your fellowship? And then how did you end up back in Salt Lake City? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, my wife and I went to high school together in Utah, just to go back a little bit. And her family's here. My family's here. I did undergraduate and medical school studies up at the university of Utah. So, actually, you know, initially I thought we were going to stay in Utah, but as you know, the residency match for, you know, plastic surgery residency, there's not a lot of programs around the country. It's very competitive. So, we ended up going, one of my top places was Loma Linda in Southern California. So, I did six years of my plastic surgery training integrated plastics in Loma Linda. And then at that time I thought I really wanted to stay in academics. I wanted to do upper extremity and hand reconstructive surgery and I still love it. But yeah, I ended up doing a fellowship, my number one pick for fellowship at USC. So, it's actually orthopedic hand. an upper extremity fellowship. So, we moved to LA from Loma Linda. So, we just went west about 60 miles. And so, I was there for a year and we lived in South Pasadena. We loved it. And I actually had several job offers in Southern California. And actually, we were intending on staying there. And I thought I saw myself as a just full-on hand surgeon initially. Catherine Maley, MBA: Like you were going to stay in reconstructive? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, that's, that was my plan originally. And as I was in fellowship training, my mom called me, you know, my mom's very persuasive, you know, she's a short Asian Thai lady. And she's like, Jerry, so, you have to at least try to look for a job in Utah. Cause I wasn't even looking. And I said, okay, mom, for you, I will look. She's like, well one of your friends, actually, Dr. Howland, who you mentioned earlier he was at a practice here and, and they were looking to add a surgeon. He's like, so, she's like, would you at least interview with him? Cause he had gone to my mom's restaurant. I was like, hey, see if Jerry, I knew, I knew Nick. And so, she's like, hey, see if he would want to come out and interview. And so, at the same time, one of my other friends from medical school had called me and said, Hey, I have a friend here. He's in Salt Lake. He's looking to hire a plastic surgeon. And so, I had those two offers or, you know, opportunities. And so, I said, look, let's at least look, you know, we were, we were planning on staying in California. And I came out on one day, interviewed at both places. And I just, I really felt like we needed to be back here and it just worked. Did you have kids yet? Yeah. So, we had our, our son, I think I was almost, we were almost 20. I was 20 years old. We had our son we were in medical school. So, I was in my third year. So, he was born like right when I started my third year was where we go to all the rotations. So, he's born in July. He just had his 14th birthday. And then our daughter who's 12, she was born in my fourth year of medical school. And then we foster adopted our youngest. So, he's six. So, we were in LA when we adopted him. So, he just had, we had something called McKay Day. His name is McKay. He had McKay Day yesterday. It was our five-year kind of anniversary for adopting him. So, we kind of celebrated yesterday. But yeah, so, that's how we have our three kids. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my gosh. All right. What year did you get back to Utah? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I came here, I've been here five years now, so, August of 2018 I started private practice. So, it's been almost five years. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you literally came back to Utah and you didn't join those other practices, you decided to go out on your own? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I actually did. So, when I first came, I joined one of, Two practices. I joined a facial plastic surgeon. I was there for about a year and a half. So, at that time I was doing handed a lot of hand surgery, a lot of recon traumas, I was building my aesthetic practice, but I was also trying to build that aesthetic practice. So, I kind of shifted gears from what I was planning in Los Angeles to when I came here, I knew I wanted to do private practice aesthetics, but I was still doing recon and hand. So, I had this kind of bipolar dual practice. I had a lot of friends, one of my friends in Arizona, Dr. Olson, Josh Olson. He's like, there's no way you're going to be able to maintain both. And I was like, watch me. I'm one of those people. I was like, I'm going to show you. And he was right. I couldn't do it. I couldn't take call at night. You know, I'd come in, I'd be up all-night doing hand trauma. And then I roll in for my scheduled mommy makeover at 6 30 AM. And I just, I felt like I was. not giving 100% to all my patients. And I just, I never want that to be the case. And so, I had to make that hard decision to really just shift to aesthetic practice. But I did start with a facial plastic surgeon in 2018. And so, I was there until I did all my boards collections. I became board certified. And then I started my practice Jerry Chidester MD in January of 2020. So, like two months before COVID, I had no idea that was going to happen, but we just went on our own. It was very scary because we had no money. We had nothing. And then that happened. So, that was really, really scary. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you run back to recon or did you stay focused on your medic or what did you do? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I, well, I kind of did both still. So, I started doing some breast reconstruction. I hadn't done a ton. I was doing some, but I started doing some for local hospital because they had lost their reconstructive plastic surgeon. So, I was doing some and then I did take, I was still taking hand call at the time. But at that point my practice was starting to grow, you know, social media, I've been doing it for almost two years. And I'd started to build this internal referral network through social media and a lot of patients kind of referring. And so, we were already kind of, you know, going up and then during COVID, you know, we had to shut our doors obviously for six weeks, couldn't operate. So, I was taking call at that time, but you know, I made the hard decision and we had six employees. It was me and then our six employees and I luckily got a PPP loan. And so, I approached all of them. I said, look, we cannot shut down. It's a lot of the other offices furloughed their employees and just were shut down for six weeks, took a vacation. I told them, look, I can't do that. We won't open our doors again. I don't have the funds. And so, I got that loan and I paid everybody and we did virtual consults during that time. Cause people wanted to still be seen and, you know, wanted to do it. They just couldn't come in. And we did a virtual grand opening in April, right at the beginning of April. And that day we booked 50 surgeries on one day. And that — Catherine Maley, MBA: Whoa, so, you're on zoom doing this? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yes. Yes. So, where are you at facing? Well, we have we have simplest so, we could do video HIPAA compliant, you know video chat. At that time though, you're allowed to pretty much do anything faced and we did, we did simplest, but 50 people to show up. Catherine Maley, MBA: What did you do? A webinar, like a patient educational event? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: So, what happened was people had, I'd already seen a bunch of people. So, a lot of them are even hand booked. And so, we had said, okay, if you put, you know, 500 down, we'll put another 500 towards surgery. And then I still had to see them in person. So, I literally, once we opened it, we had them all come back in and I saw them all in person. But yeah, and I was, It was awesome. And so, it really helped one to help me realize like, okay, like people are not at that time, weren't afraid of, you know, the economy and that's obviously changed quite a bit, but I mean, lucky for us because I don't think we would have stayed open, you know, had that not happened, so… Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you enjoyed that post COVID surge. That was insane. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, honestly, it hasn't let up. It's, it's different, but it's still, like I said, it's very, very busy. You know, there's no summers, there's no winters, it's all busy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, I hear you have a really long waiting list. Like, how long is it? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: You know, I used to hate talking about it because, you know, it made me. feel like one either I was a very inefficient surgeon or a lot of people do tell me that either you don't operate enough or you don't charge enough, you know, and I, so, I've raised my prices. I, I still want to be an accessible surgeon. I don't want to be that person that's charging and that's fine if they want to do that, but I don't charge 150,000 for my makeover. I want to be reasonable. You know, my patients are, are, you know, our demographic here of, you know, people that are doing well, but I don't want to just, you know, gouge people. So, you know, I would say our prices are fair. I, I, I operate four to five days a week, you know, we do a lot of cases every month, but yeah, it's, it's a two years out for surgery. But I don't book out. So, like, you know, I, I like want to have a life and not burn out. It's all about balance. And so, last year was the first year I actually took off a week, a quarter because, you know, my coordinator was like, you're going to burn out and you're going to do no surgeries if you don't, you know, take a break. And so, it's been nice, like for our family, you know, we block in time for a spring break or fall break and we do trips. I tried the first year in 2021, the first time I took a week off, I tried to stay local and I ended up in the office every day. I was seeing patients and that was a whole, that was one of my weeks of the year. And so, we made a decision. We have to be out of town. We take time off. But yeah, even with that, you know, I think it's important to take time off, especially, you know, if you're a new practice, whatever, once you get to that point, we can do it. I think it's really important because you're going to burn out. But yeah, we operate long days a lot of days and I love it. I'm just very passionate about it. And so, I just enjoy seeing, you know, what the things that we can do as plastic surgeons to really help people. So, it's amazing for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, on your Instagram, it looks like you did a build out of your current office. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Like, did you already have an office and a build and a surgery center and then you moved and built that out? Or what was that first construction that you were doing? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Okay, yeah, so, kind of how it went. You know, I left that original practice and I actually leased a small, very small space. It was like maybe 1300 square feet from another plastic surgeon in the, in a building here locally. And so, very small office had a few clinic rooms. But then we grew pretty quickly. So, I ended up leasing more space from him. We kind of doubled our space. And then I brought on another surgeon. I have an associate surgeon that works with me. So, that was in 2021. And we kept growing and then we ran out of space there and we wanted to open a med spot at that point. And then, and in that building, I was, And they already had a medical spa, you know, I wanted to be nice. I don't want to open another competing spa in the same building. So, we decided to then move, you know, it's a hard decision because at all at the same time, we're building a building. I have a few partners we're building. It's a, it's like 75,000 square feet. It's four stories. We're going to occupy the lower level. So, 20,000 square feet for the ORs, like five ORs, it's going to be an accredited surgery center. And then 20,000 for the clinic and spa. And then the other two floors are our partners. They do other things, but so, we were building that, but then we were outgrowing our small space. So, we ended up moving to another space currently, where we lease month to month. We opened a spa, more space, and we're already outgrowing that. We added another surge as there's three of us now. So, luckily, I kept my original space. So, we have kind of two spaces in the works and then our main space. So, eventually we'll all move to the mothership, which will hopefully be done next April, May. But yeah, in terms of the OR, I currently, I work at an accredited facility, but I don't own that one. I, I, I, you know, red space or how far away is it from your office? Well, it's still it's in the same building that my original office was in. I just go downstairs. So, it's just down the street from our current office. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, they're not for those of you who are interested in looking at this empire that he's building. You need to go to his Instagram. I think it's Dr. Chiddy, you know, at Dr. Chiddy. The thing is massive. So, let's back up on that one. So, there were some partners. What do you mean by partners who own who's going to own this thing and who's going to manage it? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, so, there's me there's another group, this Capital Financial Group, so, they're one of the main owners, the landowner, the location is beautiful, you know, the southern end of Salt Lake Valley, it's up on this mountain, and it overlooks, it overlooks currently a prison, but the prison's being torn out, they're planning on building a city, another city right there, they're kind of, Salt Lake's trying to do this, like, Twin Cities thing where you have Salt Lake downtown, and then on the opposite end of the valley is this new city. So, we're kind of right above that new location but the landowner, he's one of the main owners because, you know, for years people had approached him about building on this plot and he refused it. So, for whatever reason, he was excited to be a part of this project. Catherine Maley, MBA: Why did you get that? Because that's an opportunity. Your views are amazing. There're huge snow cap mountains. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I definitely credit. Well, actually one of my friends from high school. So, it's interesting here, you know, it's all like a very small community. When I had left my original practice in 2019, 2020, I contacted one of my, I saw his name, my friend, he's a commercial real estate agent and works with the project management company. It's called thrive and his name's Greg Goff. And I said, I called Greg, I saw his name on the billboards, like Greg, I need your help. And you might remember me from high school, but I'm looking to lease some space. And eventually I want to build a space. And so, he helped me find some space in South Jordan where we're currently out. At, and then I kind of talked to him about. building my own building. And so, he gave me two options. He said, I'm going to take you to this place. It's smaller. And he took us to a plot of land is very beautiful. And we could have had our own building, just, you know, freestanding building. And then he's like, but I have to show you another location. So, he took me up to the hill where we were building is now. And he took me out on there. stood there and I just looked out and I just like, I have to be here. Like there, I'm like, this is where I need to be just had that feeling, you know you know, Brigham young, you know, Brigham young, he's the one that came and settled for the Mormons, you know, into the Salt Lake Valley when he came and he saw the valley, he came, he said, this is the place, you know, I kind of felt like, this is the place like for our practice. And so, I was like, I'm going to do whatever it takes. So, I'm really excited to be in this location because I just felt it's very iconic. I feel like, you know, what we're trying to build as a brand and as a company is something very unique and special. And I think the location for one is going to reflect that in terms of being a location that's just very inviting and opening for all people. Whether you're a plastic surgeon, you want to learn more if you're an esthetician, if you're an injector, you know, we really want to bring all these walks of life together to really kind of learn and grow from each other. And that's kind of our plan. And that're my associate's plans as they become partners. And we all see that together. And so, it's been really nice to, to have that vision. Catherine Maley, MBA: The 75,000 square feet. How many of those feet are you going to take? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: So, we're occupying like just over half, like 40,000 square feet. Catherine Maley, MBA: And then who's, who else is going to be in there? Is it going to be like plastic surgery, like a center, a training center? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, our, our main level will be that it's, it's a clinic where it has a lot of. So, things that, you know, even like laser trainings, research and all that stuff, the lower level is a surgery center. So, that's a five OR suite. And then there's other space too, that we can utilize for other things. And then upstairs is a financial group. And then on the top level is actually more of like there's office space and then a reception center. So, it's kind of a draw because the low, the view is amazing. So, it's really going to bring a lot of, you know, all walks of life. But and then we have a pad out front. We're building like a 18,000 square foot building. That's going to be more medical. So, like, you know. Cosmetic dentistry, possibly a pharmacy and some other things that are kind of associated with what we do. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, okay. So, is this private equity money? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: No, it's land development people. I mean, I put, you know, one thing I did, one thing I've, I've learned is I put all of my money back into my business. My I sat down with a really good, another good friend from high school. He's Lieutenant Colonel in the army, but he does a lot of leadership training and he started his own company that he consults on. So, he and I created our own company to consult on plastic surgeons trying to do something similar. So, we worked together on that, but he helped me really establish a culture for our business. And I think that was really, really important to really from the beginning set a vision, you know, mission statement, obviously, but really set up the culture for our business. And we sat down and made a roadmap. We said, you know, at one year, three-year, five-year, 10 year, where do we see our business? And I had seen, you know, my vision was a gift. Five years into practice to start to look into having our own building and everything was really accelerated, you know, like, you know, we started doing that at two years. And so, it was really, I recommend for a lot of plastic surgeons to like do that. I think it's really important. Anytime I consult with other plastic surgeons, I say, you know, really write these things down, even your personal life. Like I wrote down personal goals, wrote down when my kids are graduating and, you know, call it all these things just to really map it out. Cause it's, it's going to be there. You just have to map it out. But I think once you kind of grasp that you're kind of able to do these things you know, piecemeal a step at a time. And so, yeah, that's the vision I had back then with him. And, and I've just kind of seen that carry through the last, but you know, three years. Catherine Maley, MBA: The pivotal point is you having zero money to 75,000 square feet with huge grandiose plans. In less than two years. Like, how did that happen? Do you think it's just hanging around with big thinkers and it makes you think bigger? Did you always think like that? Where is that big mindset coming from? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, so, oh, sorry, what I was going to say, and a second ago too, I'm going to answer that. I saved all my money. So, everything I brought into the business, all that, all the two year wait, all the surgery, I saved. And that's what I put towards the building for our part. But yeah, I think as... As you surround yourself, like, as I did, you know, starting to talk to people that you're like minded or way more advanced and more knowledgeable than me to like, just try to soak up something from them is, was key. Like I said, so, hanging out with one of my friends who's leadership and I've, and I've done podcasts with other people locally who are just these entrepreneurs just. amazing, successful people and like picking their brains and learning from them. You know, one thing I've learned as a plastic surgeon, I'm not a businessman. I do not know what I'm doing. I don't have an MBA. I, you know, there are surgeons that do, I don't. And so, I don't, I don't pretend to know what I'm doing in that aspect. So, I really rely on people who are much more intelligent than me at what they do. You know, to help guide me because and I've seen people and surgeons who think they can do all of it, you know, that, you know, sometimes you have an ego and you just think, oh, I'm, I'm smart. I can do surgery. Well, I can do business. No, honestly, I don't think it's that way at all. You know, I feel like I'm very you know, Say blessed to be able to have hands to do surgery. But I, again, I really rely on people that know what they're doing. And so, I think my vision grew, you know, I had done that original kind of vision board in the beginning during COVID, but as I saw things happening, it really like opened my mind and I said, wow, like I can do more than this. And then as I brought on, you know, Dr. Garlick, my first associate, soon to be partner you know, he had big visions too, and that helped, you know, it's like very synergistic to have people around you that have other ideas that can build on each other. And then our new associate, Dr. Brian Pifer, who's similar, he has an MBA actually, so, he's very... He's very diverse in these things. So, finding people that are like minded and have other friends that I'm working with it's just been amazing for me to see, you know, the potential that I have, but also our employees and kind of the vision opening it up. Catherine Maley, MBA: I've spent some time in Utah and I don't, I think there's something in the water because there are so, many entrepreneurs there. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? And, and also you live clean, you know, like everyone's out partying and you guys are working. I honestly, like I used to a million years ago, I used to work for the Silicon Valley with a startup and all the call centers were in Utah because they were the only people who showed up when they were supposed to, they did a great job. They were a good, friendly, friendliest people I've ever met. And I I'm fascinated by that religion, by the way, that, that is so, interesting. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: It really is very You know, the religion, the culture are very, you know, much alike here. And I think, you know, if you look at like the state flag, it has a beehive on it and bees and, you know, kind of the symbol of the state was like, you know, busy, busy, busy bees, working bees, you know, like, and I think everyone here, there is that kind of industrial, like, you know, put your, you know, put your head to the grind or the whatever the term is, you know, put your head down. But yeah, and I think that's what I grew up with. I saw my, my dad was that way. He's a hard worker. My mom very much so. She owns a Thai restaurant here and she's been doing that for 17 years. She's, you know, in her upper 60s and she's every day there, you know, she's working 60 hours a week still. And so, I feel like a lot of that work ethic came, you know, from my parents and I started working when I was 16. I never did not have a job. I worked in some of those call centers you talked about locally when I was in college. Yeah, and I really think so. And like you said, the clean living and all that. So, I think a lot, you know, I tell a lot of my friends, this really is like a very special place because there's a lot of young, healthy people, well-educated you know, with education comes, you know, pretty decent jobs. Again, they're not, they don't have a lot of expense. We'll have a lot of expendable income because they're not using it on, you know, like they're not gambling or other things. And so, they're doing surgery and it's a very, very unique place for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Although I have noticed you guys like tattoos. Have you noticed that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I don't have any, but I, I like tattoos. Yeah, there's a lot of tattoos, a lot of good tattoo artists locally too. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. That's so, interesting because I thought, huh, maybe that is their little kryptonite. You know, I'm going to get a tattoo. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I can't decide on one that I like enough that I would get on my body, but you know. It's so, darn permanent, you know? Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, all right. So, back to the surgeons that you're bringing on board, you're, it sounds like you have more plans to grow here. Are you, are you trying to fill this place with a lot of surgeons as in you're going to be the owner, or are you trying to build this kind of partnership where you buy in and exit later? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? What's your plan there with other surgeons? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. This is also kind of evolved as I've been in practice because when I got out of that original business relationship, you know, it can be very traumatizing when you leave a relationship and it just doesn't end well which that one unfortunately did not. I learned a lot, but I was not looking for any partners and I thought, you know, for the rest of my life, like my wife's going to be, you know, by my side, you know, I trust her and we're going to work together. But as, yeah. You know, as I kind of opened up and kind of saw our potential because we're trying to figure out how do we, you know, we have a two year wait list. I can't do all these surgeries. You can't do 1200 people, you know, there's going to be five years out. So, I kind of opened my mind and be like, okay, I have to find someone I trust, you know, that I can work with, but eventually be a partner because I also don't see a relationship with another surgeon or surgeons where we don't all have equal amount of say, you know, and I felt that's something I learned in my first place. And so, I think my, my mindset, it really is like. I want to be equal with other people that are like minded and make those decisions together. So, in bringing on the two searches I have you know, how we've written things up is, yeah, they have the opportunity to become a full partner. And, you know, I, I want to be on a level where I can step away for a week and I can trust them and they're going to run the business, you know Just as well as I could. And so, I don't see myself being superior to anybody. I don't even see myself being superior to my employees, quite honestly, as my teammates. I own the place, sure, and the, you know, the risk is on me, but, you know, no one's better than each other. And, you know, there is the mentality of, like, everyone's expendable. And I don't like that at all. I think if you're hiring people that you feel are expendable, then I think you're doing something That's probably not the best thing for your business. So, you know, when we hire, I look at it as like this, like in medical school, it's really hard to get into, but once you're in, they do everything to keep you there. Like literally they'll do everything right. Law school. It's like, come on in, pay us money, but we don't care if you stick around or fail. We really don't care. Right. There's kind of these. Two trains of thought in terms of education. And I feel that way for business. I think you can look at your employees as expendable, but if you look through that lens, you will view them differently. You will treat them differently and they see that and they won't value your business and your vision as much. And so, my mentality has been, you know, I do my best to keep our employees. And so, early on, we try to do everything we can to vet those. people that we bring on because, you know, it's like a family and we're going to bring people in. We'll make sure that we're all, you know, like minded, you know, at least on a level where we can get along. You don't have to like think the same, but you know, culturally we fit. Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely agree. I think your area is different though because of the Mormonism because, or do you have to be a Mormon to work for you? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Oh, no, no, religion is not. No, no, no, not that way. Culture like, like, more like, like, like hardworking or like, you know, being honest and we have, we have all our cultural statements on our wall, you know, it's like, you know, honest and open thinking, you know, accepting positive and reinforcement and feedback, you know, those types of cultures, not like, you know, you have to be more, okay. You can be whatever you want. I mean, I grew up in Saudi Arabia. I was the only Mormon. I had all Muslim and, you know, Hindi friends. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like the diversity in that way for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: The staffing issue has become a pretty big issue post COVID. And so, I don't know if it's the chicken or the egg, but a lot of surgeons are now very gun shy about making these employees friends and family, you know, it because they've, they're getting burned. And then, then you say, well, it was at your attitude. Was it, was it the employee's attitude? And now you're, you're marred by that. Like, I don't know, but it's become much more of a challenge. Have you noticed that? Or. Yeah. Or your workforce there has? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I mean, yeah, I think just in any area there's going to be some turnover, you know, and, and I think what we've noticed more so, as people want to get more education and so, sometimes that education leads them, you know, they have to go back to school full time, you know, so. We have medical assistants who want to become nurses and then become nurse practitioners. And so, I, I've seen that growth happen with some of our people in clinic, you know on the esthetician side in the spa. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely, I just see that, you know, locally it was a lot of turnover and a lot of I mean called incest, but people moving around, you know, and I think that's part of, like you said, just the business in general. But I think we actually have a pretty good, a really good retention rate, but again, it's. You can't control everybody's attitudes and you know like you try to find people that match the culture and system that you're, you know, you're kind of trying to build together but it's hard you know it's work and I agree I think whatever it was since COVID or, you know, the different demographics of people working I'm not sure what it is but Yeah, some people just aren't as invested in wanting to work. It's, it's, it's weird, you know, like for example, we're trying to hire another medical assistant and, you know, two people from indeed just don't even show up for an interview, like how, how do you just not show for an interview that you scheduled, I don't get it. I'm, I'm always surprised by that. Catherine Maley, MBA: I often do like a FaceTime with people first before we, you know, we don't need to get that far. Let me just see if you can show up for that, you know, and I'm just so, surprised how many no shows there. Jerry Chidester, MD: I almost didn't show up for your this though! So, I'm just kidding. Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't dig it personally anymore. Jerry Chidester, MD: I was on the freeway. Catherine Maley, MBA: But in your world on doesn't the staff have to dance? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I mean, yeah, that, that technically is a requirement. It's an unspoken requirement, but no, we're actually originally when I, some of the front desk that I hired, you know, well, it wasn't required, but I said, Hey, come in this Tik TOK, you know, we were doing it as a front desk dance and I wasn't as busy back then, you know, so, I don't get as much opportunity to do that now, but yeah, that's… Catherine Maley, MBA: Let's talk more about that in a minute, but I, it just seems to me. It was just knowing you like you better know how to dance if you work there because you're going to be it helps, you're going to be. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, you're going to be called in. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the, so, the staff tips, how are you keeping them motivated, are you doing it with money with events with first with thanks so, much team. How are you doing? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, honestly, we've tried all of it. I'm sure a lot of other surgeons have too, you know, and I think it evolves because your team evolves, right, not just the people that are in it, but the size of the team. And so, things change, you know, early on, like we would do these are really nice, you know, dinners, like, you know, really nice restaurant for the holidays. And then also in your team is now 60 people with their spouse and you're like, okay, well, we probably can't do as nice want to do it nicely. But you know, you said the change a little bit right so, I think team size changes some of those dynamics I think the interaction between employees change but yeah, we've always tried we've tried financial incentives you say hey, all right, if we book this number of surges month you guys get this actual cash bonus, you know we tried individuals we've tried team bonuses. We, you know, we've tried. Everything. And so, it constantly changes. I don't think there's a right answer for all of it again, because what we do today is not the same as what we did even last year. So, yeah, currently, and the needs change. So, like, you know, my books, I've closed my books a year and a half ago. So, before we used to give incentive if you booked a surgery, you know, a consult, great, but guess what? I'm not booking consults. So, we had to change that. So, now it's like, okay, if people book, if you get someone that wants to see Dr. Chidester, Dr. Chiddy, over to see Dr. Pfeiffer, Dr. Garlick. Great, you get a bonus on front desk. So, we've had to change, you know, incentives. And so, we do that. Yeah, we definitely do, you know, all the perks. So, like on the spa side, you know, they get, you know, discounts on products, but also on injections. We have injection days. Our nurse injector will do that. They have VIP friends and family. So, their friends and family will come and get spa perks. You know on the surgery side, you know, certain things that we can do safely and ethically. And then yeah, we do, we try to show our appreciation, whether it's a get together, a gathering, you know, once in a while. We were trying to get to go to see this Barbie movie and rent out a movie theater, but the Cinemark doesn't do it anymore. But yeah, so, we're trying different things to, to do that team building. But you know, in an environment where it's outside of work and where we can say, look, and you know, some people give you the advice of you should never be Your friends with your employees. And I'll be honest, like I can say we're, we are a family, but I do try to maintain a professional relationship with them. But at the day, like I'm a, I feel like I'm a soft heart person. Like, again, I don't see myself better than them. We're a team and we're a family. And so, that's, that's how I treat my staff and it seems to work. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. The biggest mistake, just give me one big mistake you have made because you have grown so, fast. Well, give me one. That's cost you time, money or sleepless nights. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I mean, I would say, you know, putting a lot of money into like build out. So, like in a space that's not yours to renovate, I mean, like our first space, I guess it was a very small space, you know, 12–1300 square feet, but, you know, it used to be like a neurology office. It smelled like nerves and feet. And so, we really had to change that vibe, you know, and some of my first patients still to this day, it kind of teased me like, I remember when you had all the nerve thing because I shared the space with us and he was a great. Great neurologist. But yeah, like just, you know, so, we built it out to try and make it our space, but then a year and a half later we're moving, you know, and so, like, okay, that, you know, 75,000, a hundred thousand dollars you put into a leased space. Well, guess what? Some other person's using that now. The return of investment that I don't know, right. It probably wasn't so, good. So, that's one thing. And so, on our new space, we moved to, I really reduced the amount that we put into it because we knew we were building our own building, which is going to cost a lot more. So, we try to keep it very clean and simple. Make it look like it's ours, but, you know, be very careful on what you spend because it's just not worth it, you know in the end another big mistake is just rushing to buy. Medical devices, you know, like you get so, hyped up, you go to these conferences and they're like, Oh man, it's the best laser. It's the best this and that. And really like stepping back and saying, looking at the numbers, like really, you should look at it from a business perspective, you know, and there's some really good companies out there that you can consult with that have service. I can tell you like; you know, how much did you make off this device? Per hour, you know, like who are you going to pay to do this? What space are you going to put this in? How much do you need to make to make it worth it? And is it worth it? And so, there are companies that can do that if you don't know how to calculate that yourself, but that was a hard lesson to learn. You know, we've, we've bought some devices and I'm sure everybody's done this where we then turn around and had to sell it or, you know, or it doesn't work or whatever it is. There's another, I think. The mistake that I've made. I mean, yes, it's a financial mistake. Was it like, did it hurt our business? I mean, not really, but yeah, I mean, that could have been put towards other things, you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I just gave a talk on that in Boston this past weekend and it was all the things to consider. And what happens is you're at that meeting and your friend says, and he's probably trying to justify him buying it said, Oh my God, I love this machine. It's a money maker for me. And then you're like, really? Okay. And my first thought is. Who's going to run the thing and where are the patients going to come from? Has anyone even thought about the marketing side of this? It's not going to happen on its own. Who's got a plan to make sure this thing stays busy. And then everybody claims the salesperson. And frankly, it's, it's you abruptly jumping to the, to that shiny object thing. Don't we all, doesn't it feel so, good when you look at a machine and say, oh my God. This is going to change everything, you know, get a nurse injector or a nurse or an esthetician. She's going to run it. I don't have to deal with it. This thing is going to be amazing. And it never is, you know, it just, it just never is. But we always bite that apple. Don't we? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: You're right. So, that's great. Yeah. So, but there are so, many, I wish I would've listened to your talk, right? Catherine Maley, MBA: I should, I should have taped it because, well, actually, you know what, I'll do a blog post on it or a video because there's so, many things to consider, but I won't go into that now. But anyway, just let me go back to staff for a second. Are you actually managing staff or did you hire a COO or an HR who, like, how many people are we talking about that are going to be working in this? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, currently, you know, between our spa and our clinic, we have almost, I think we have 35 employees, so, three surgeons, 35 employees. You know, we anticipate for the surgery center alone, that's probably going to be 50 to 75 staff additional. We don't even have them yet, you know, we haven't hired them. And then in our new spa clinic, you know, probably at least doubling, if not more. So, yeah, we're looking at, you know, from the three companies between the clinic, the spa. And the surgeon are probably 150 employees. So, yeah, in terms of scaling, yeah, we're looking at that now. And so, we've already tried, you already laid the foundation. So, I think, again, one thing besides culture is like really setting up an organizational chart of your business and like who reports to who, and, you know, even though we write all these things down and, you know, we have a title, like Sam, the founder and my wife's the practice administrator, and we have an office manager and a spa director, you know, we have all these titles and we have leads and we have, you know, the breakdowns in clinic and spa. People still wonder, like, who do I report to? You know, it's like, inevitable. But, you know, we have all that mapped out. We do have HR. We don't have in house HR. We have a wonderful person that's kind of on a retainer. We worked with her for several years now. She's wonderful. And we are actually currently in the process of trying to find executive director slash, you know, practice administrator or COO in that capacity. And so, that my wife can kind of step forward. You know lateral more towards the spa, which is what she wants to do. And so, you know even, and I've talked about this with my associates, my partners, you know, like having your spouse be kind of your equivalent, you know, in the business, like if you're the CEO and she's COO, you know, it can be a little like. Unnerving for them, you know, cause they're like, well, she's always going to side with him. I'll tell you right now, my wife does it. Like she probably sides with me like 20% of the time, but no, I mean, I was very conscious of that. And so, we, we've tried to lay plans and a roadmap to say, okay, you know, she's going to kind of transition over into the spas, what she wants to do, what she's, you know, has training and stuff to do. And as we bring on other people who have. background in running these things on a much bigger scale. So, we're actually, like next week we have interviews with practice administrators. We have like four people. And so, yeah, we've been working on this to grow, but it's all timing, you know, because like, I don't want to bring on people too soon. And so, you know, it's a lot. It's a lot. Aside from doing search, like my job, I'm a, I'm a technician. I literally. Operate like I said, four to five days a week, you know, 60 hours a week. And then I have to go run a business in the background, you know, multiple businesses, you know, I run a side of a software after this time I have a, I have a software company. I started with a couple of people. I have to do that, you know, and, yeah, I have a turro business that I run, you know, with a person I have, so, I don't know, I think I have a really severe ADHD that I can control, but I have a lot going on. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, Lord your wife has been wonderful, like she, has that been just fantastic to have her part of this rather than not know anything about it? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Honestly, yeah, I mean it, you know, it was very scary to me like when I left the first practice, I never saw myself for one being in private practice, I thought I was going to be a hand surgeon at a hospital right where I can go in, do surgery, go home, go enjoy my life. Instead, and then I was like, okay, well join a private practice with someone who knows how to run this, I'll just do surgery. But then when it's like, okay, it's my own business, I have to run this thing, I can't run into the ground, and I have to do surgery, it was so, nice to have her step up and be like, hey, I'm here with you. I'm going to be by your side. We're going to do this together and it'll make me a little emotional, but she's amazing. Yeah, she's I would say of all people I've seen grow. You know, I think of myself through residency and even through this business, I would say I've seen her grow exponentially just professionally. intellectually emotional intelligence. She's just grown so, much in the last few years. And I mean, she's like a boss woman and it's awesome and people respect her. She is just a powerhouse. Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's so, cool to see that you can even watch it in Instagram. You can see how pro she's gotten, you know and she's just so, behind you, like, boy, having that kind of support system must be very nice. So, congratulations because she's been with you when you were like nothing, you know, and yeah, you jumped. I just want to understand. How did you jump like this? I mean you went from zero to a hundred in like about a year. Like how felt like that? Are you doing that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I don't know. I think you know; I think a lot of people I got a lot of hate for it actually, you know, from even a lot of like colleagues because they're like, you know, clown, you know, he's doing TOK and, and I think at that time has made a little ahead of the curve. And maybe no one's ever going to be dancing. You know, I don't dance in surgery. I think that's, you know, not safe, but you know, I think personality wise, like I tell people, it's like, look, you know, there's plastic surgeons out there who are sculptors and they're amazing artists, you know, and they showcase their work and they'll post it, you know, I'm not, I'm not a sculptor, but I'm a dancer. Like for me, my. My form of like expression me is to dance, you know, and I love, and I've loved that since I was in high school, I break danced, you can go watch my high school videos. I used to make videos when I was younger. And so, for me, tick tock was just like made for me when, you know, and unfortunately it happened when I was almost 40, but so, for me, I was so, passionate about it, you know, I'm just trying to be myself, but also educate. And so, I think it really helped me break down a lot of boundaries for patients, but I think for other surgeons, it was very like. Unattractive to them and very scary. And so, I got a lot of hate and I, and I still do. I don't, I don't care at this point, but I have a lot of people now and I speak at ASPS. I'm speaking again about social media. I speak every year about it. It's been three years in a row. I'm on panels for that. I go to different like GAC. I went to that and I spoke about social media and that's where we met. And so, but yeah, I think, you know, one thing I just talked to people about and advise is look, be yourself, like whatever that is, you know because your patients want to see a human side of you. And it's hard sometimes to let that boundary down a little bit. Not boundary. I'd say that barrier because, you know, we try to be very professional and, and I agree, there's always like a line of like, okay, where am I professional or am I not? But I think, you know, it's really evolving. And I think a lot of people are seeing that now. And I see people doing Tik TOKs that, you know, the year before that were, You know, blasting me on Instagram for doing Tik Toks and now they're doing them. And guess what? I'm happy for you. Like I'm not saying how I told you. So, I think it's great that you can be yourself and, and do that. So, that, that's why I think it just grew so, quickly because nobody was really doing it at that time. And it just kind of caught on, you know, Would here's what I have noticed. If you're good at it, do it. If you're not get somebody to help you look good at it because. You just happen to innately, this is your thing, you know, it just is your thing. Your Instagram is amazing. Catherine Maley, MBA: I actually don't do TikTok because they keep, my 15-year-old niece keeps getting blasted for breast augs and that pisses me off. So, I'm boycotting it. But Instagram is our, usually our place to be. What's your demographic though? You seem to, of course, skew to the younger patient, the more body patient, is that true? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I think my practice really has, you know evolved and kind of niched down to really like, like I said, female 20 mid-twenties to like mid-forties, maybe early fifties female. A lot of them are moms. They've had multiple kids, you know yeah, mainly breast body and contouring body contouring. And I don't do much face anymore. You know, our new associate brought on, he does a lot of face. We did that intentionally. I just, and I think it's because I started out, you know, at a place where I was working with a facial plastic surgeon, so, I already kind of niched myself down because I was doing hand, I was doing breast body and stuff, cause he didn't do that. And so, I just kind of, my referrals came that way and I just kept doing it. I love it. I love doing that. And so, I just kind of stuck to that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, again, you're in the middle of Utah. How many children does everybody have? Like you can't be in the header market, you know, I would be the tummy tuck king. As a matter of fact, you are. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? What do you call it? Not — Jerry Chidester, MD: "Mommy takeover". Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. How cute is that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Like, I just like the idea of empowering a woman, you know, it's like we're taking our bodies back. We're taking back what was ours, you know, like it really was kind of given up to their kids for the last decade or whatever. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, who thought of that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I did. Catherine Maley, MBA: Mommy takeover. I'm a marketer. I eat, sleep and drink marketing and never dawned on me to call it "mommy takeover". Jerry Chidester, MD: What's your mommy makeover? I was like, oh, it kind of bugged me. You know, I mean, her granny, granny game changer, daddy do over. But I was like, you know, I'm not there. I get that. There's a lot of women that have not had kids. And so, I'm still, I wish I could come up with a term that's just like, Hey, let's kind of fix everything head to toe that you're wanting to get back. You know, most of my patients aren't looking to be extreme. I think most plastic surgeons are that way. Patients want, Either restored, you know, volume in their breasts because they've lost it after kids or they're wanting to just feel more confident for whatever that is. You know, it's not like people are wanting extreme stuff all the time. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And what about your other thing that you trademarked the "SoMe"? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: SoMe, yeah. So, that came it's called the SoMe breast aug. Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, so, it started, it's kind of two parts. It started where I was, I was evolving the way I was doing breast augmentation where I was doing more, what's called composite breast augmentation, where you're, you have implants, you have fat grafting, you have a lift and then you have, you know, internal bra or some type of mesh material to support the weight of the implant. So, it's a lot of different components. That's called composite breast augmentation. And I hated saying that to patients, okay, we're going to do a composite breast. I'm like, what is that? You know? And so, I told my wife, she's like, that sounds so, lame. And so, we try, I'm like, how can I like shorten that down? And, and so, you know, we're talking and then we're also talking like, you know, doing "befores and afters" for social media, I was like, okay, like, you know, how do you ask a patient professionally, you know, bring in a bra that will look good. So, that when we do before and after it, like it's very consistent, it's clean looking, it's not, you know, like, you know, a ratted toward torn bra, you know? And so, my wife's like, My wife came up, she said, call it SoMe. because SoMe stands for social media. She's like, come up, like call it a SoMe bra. Like tell them to wear a bra that they would be willing to post on social media. I was like, oh. And then I thought it's kind of double meaning like SoMe for the breast augmentation part is more like, you know, a customized, like, this is so, me. Like this is, yeah, that's how I saw it. This is, Yeah, so, it kind of has double meaning. And so, then, then I, you know, we, we invented a bra that's a post-surgical bra. So, that's another business we have. But so, that's called the SoMe bra. And again, it's very customizable. Like it's adjustable everywhere for a post-surgical breast patient. Cause I, you know, I had tried tons of different surgical bra brands and just didn't love them. And so, I mean, these aren't perfect, but I think they work really well. Patients have liked them. So… Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. How did you end up with 209 reviews at a rating of 4. 9 in such a short amount of time? Is there a process, a secret, you're bribing them? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? How are you getting that? Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I wish. Yeah, yeah. I know some places like you go get free ice cream if you give them a review. Right. But we don't do that. So, no you know, I think when a patient is in that moment when they, they look in the mirror or, you know, they come for their follow up and they're just super happy, like if that's a moment to capture and say, Hey, like, would you be willing to share this with other people? And so, you know, we don't corner them or trap them, but we say, Hey, and we send it to them right then and there. So, I think one, one thing we've learned is you really have to send that link to that Google review, like while they're in office. Or even say, Hey, we have an iPad. If you're willing to do that, you don't force them to do it. But yeah, I mean, that, that's it. And, and I think yeah, unfortunately there's that one. I know why there's the, the made of 4. 9, but you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's fine. It's also a good opportunity. So, much more authentic to be that than 5. 0. Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. Yeah. I love the 4. 9. Catherine Maley, MBA: Don't let that bother you at all. Jerry Chidester, MD: No, it doesn't. And I think, you know, it's in the response to these as well. That's just as important, you know, the way you respond to Negative feedback, but I think any feedback is good feedback. It doesn't mean it's negative or positive. It's that it's an opportunity to grow because we're definitely not perfect and there's growing pains with any business or practice. And I think you always learn from something, you know, whether it's your mistakes or your shortcomings or your oversize, you know. So, you're right about the timing. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's about the timing because a lot of the surgeons say, well I asked, I catch them at their three months and I say by three months, she's so, used to this. She's not ecstatic anymore. She's just, you know, she loves it, but not like she did when she first had it done. So, I think timing is everything. I also think it's helpful for the doctor to ask. I think you'll get a yes way more often than others. The thing that confuses me, I keep hearing different things about it. Okay. Can they do it in their office on your office on their cell phone or is this IP address an issue? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: So, I've heard like with RealSelf it is, I it still is because RealSelf, my understanding is they do look at that and Google might as well. I don't know about Google, but I do know with RealSelf that that was an issue and so. Yeah, sometimes we'll say, we're going to send you a review. And so, when they leave the office, they can, they can do it. But you know, your chances, unfortunately of them filling it out, go like plummet because they move on with their life. It's not like they don't do that, but they're not in that same emotional state, you know, where it's like, I'm feeling it like, Oh man, this is all, I'm glad I did this, you know, like. So, yeah, I don't know what the right answer is. I mean and some, you know, for a while, Google wasn't even reviewing and posting them during COVID. Like, I think they were short staffed. And so, they weren't vetting these reviews. And so, a lot of reviews never got posted. I think for a lot of people and they were doing that to protect businesses, my understanding, you know, if you looked like my, my mom's business with restaurants, you know, they struggled, they couldn't keep employees. And so, service was very poor. It was a lot of just takeout, you know, where Uber eats. or whatever. And so, they got really bad reviews for service, wasn't the food quality, it was a service. And so, I think Google did that to protect businesses during that time. That's a good point. Yeah. And I know they did that, but I think that's since done, gone and done. But there's other, you know, there's Yelp. Utah does not use Yelp very much, but like in California, Yelp is a huge thing, you know. And so, there's, yeah, a bunch of Google reviews you know, real self, you know, you talked about, I mean, your own website, you can, you know, can, you kind of conglomerate all the reviews together as well. I think in the end, you know, the whole point of getting reviews though, it's, it's really, you know, it's one tool for a patient to decide if they want to come to you for surgery, right? Because, just because someone has a lot of reviews, five stars, it really doesn't mean anything if you walk in the door and like, I didn't have a good experience there. And so, I think, you know, our goal as a business and the culture is really like, you know, you want to give that from the minute they either call or walk in the door till they leave. You know, just that level of experience, like, wow, that was amazing. I want to go back there, you know, and, and or that surgeon, I really connected with them. It's really about the connection. Cause you got a million reviews, you can have all your friends and family gone to that surgeon, but you may not connect with them. You know, people, and I say that online, I'm like, look, You know, it's, it's actually kind of, I have to share this with you. I got a, I had posted some reels the other day that I did on Instagram and someone, another surgeon, not in my state was trying, I could tell they were trying to send my, my reels to another person, you know, because, and it was a comment about that reels. And it was not very nice. It was like, Oh, I'm OMG. I'm so, embarrassed for him. You know, and I was very nice in my reply and she didn't, I don't think she realized, well, then she realized it came to me and tried to correct it and said, Oh, that was not meant for you. Wrong person. And like, I've been doing Instagram for a while. I know who that was intended for. It was intended for somebody else, but it was about me, but I was very nice. I said, look, like, you know what, sometimes my stuff isn't for everyone and it may not be for you and that's fine. Like. You'll find people that are drawn to you and I'll find people that are drawn to me and that's okay, you know so, I try to be nice about my reply But yeah, like everyone has their thing and patients have their thing. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I have my own fan club and then the fan club and the doctors, yeah, the doctors do the same thing to me. And I think, come on, don't you have something better to do than, you know, comment on my copy. You don't like what I write. Like, come on. But you know what? If you're playing a bigger game, it's just part of it and it's no big deal. Yeah. I wouldn't worry about it at swag. You are just Mr. Entrepreneur. So, of course you have a shopping cart and you have t-shirts and the bras and the t-shirts are hysterical. How, how did that all happen? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I had a lot of people actually messaged me and say, Hey, like, I would love it if you made a shirt. I had patients, I would have patients literally make shirts the day of surgery and say, like. You know, I don't sell these shirts, but they say like Chiddy's Titties or something, you know, I'm like, Oh, to me, that's a little vulgar, you know, I thought it was funny. I bought the domain name cause I didn't want anybody else to buy it, but I don't use it. But no, so, I had patients coming in making their own t-shirts and so, I thought, well, we can make our own. And so, you know, we, we made, this is got Chiddy's or Chiddy Committee or something, you know, just kind of basic stuff. And then we had the bra and so, we created an online shop really for that. And, you know, I. We now what we do is a lot of we just give our patients, you know, cause they've been waiting. Some patient waited two years to be seen for consult. So, we try to give them some stuff. They've been waiting. This is appreciation like, Hey, here's a shirt. Here's one of our custom bags. Here's a gift card to our spa. Thank you for waiting. Cause you could have gone anywhere else in the last two years. You could be healed two years ago and you know, you're ready for your implant exchange at this point. So, we appreciate people for waiting. And so, we try to, yeah. You know, give get back to them too. Catherine Maley, MBA: And if you just wanted my two cents the t-shirts are cute But I would actually do some form fitting tank tops for the girls who really want to show off what you gave them And they'll you know, keep them clean But those would be a big and then have that post op goodie bag where they get that for free the gift card to the spa absolutely once you've had surgery you need to go to non-surgical and keep everything in good shape and in that, I would also put the referral card, you know, a couple of referrals. But I think you would get a lot of play out of that. Jerry Chidester, MD: I love that. Yeah. We've talked about tank tops. I haven't done it, but I really, I hear that from you. I think I will do it now. So… Catherine Maley, MBA: But there's like cool ones, you know, like a nice quality tank top, like they would really wear that. And I'm thinking I'm envisioning black on the one of those t-shirts says. Chicago, which is Chicago. Al Hadid? Jerry Chidester, MD: Al Hada, yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: What's all that about? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, yeah, so, I think it says like Chicago, Al Hada, maybe Los Angeles. Los Angeles, yes. Yeah. And Bangkok. Yeah. So, those are all places that like I lived. It's more of an insight thing. My staff thought it was the dumbest-shirt ever, but I'm like, I don't know. Catherine Maley, MBA: You were literally going to franchise to those places and I thought you've got to be kidding. Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I had people ask me that. Are you going there? I'm like, no. Okay. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I thought you were going to go back to your roots, like Saudi Arabia and like, you know, go help them because — Jerry Chidester, MD: I've actually, I've looked into that actually going back there. Catherine Maley, MBA: I've talked to some folks in Saudi Arabia. They're all of that. They're busy. They are. They care about this as much as we all do. And under that they at home, they say they don't wear this. They have pajama parties and the girls wear their. Panties and bras and show off what they have. And there's a lot going on and the men, the men love hair. They love their restoration. Who knew? Cause they're wearing turbans. I think people are so funny. Yeah. Anyway, I think there's a market there for you. Jerry Chidester, MD: For sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we're going to wrap it up now. Is there any advice you would give anybody else who's thinking about not even playing this big game that you are, but just jumping a bit, just jumping from, let's say insurance. I'm assuming you don't do insurance anymore? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I haven't for a couple of years. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, is there any advice there to, like, if you want to make that jump or make that move or go out on your own or do a build out any. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, I think, you know, when it comes to like, yeah, if someone's looking to evolve their practice, if they're, let's say you're doing all insurance and you're thinking of doing aesthetic surgery, or at least more maybe than you're doing currently I think first off, you know, it's really hard to break into because people will say, well, I want to see your aesthetic work, like show me your breast augmentations and maybe I don't do a lot, but I think the best way for those patients is, is, yeah. They have family and people that are all the time, right, like you may have done an amazing breast cancer reconstruction on a patient and they probably aesthetically look amazing and they're going to have family or maybe they themselves want an aesthetic procedure. So, a lot of people, I think, start with their actual insurance patients and then, you know, kind of bring them into the aesthetic realm, but then also referrals from their family members. So, I remember because when I started, even my hand patients, you know, like they were coming in. To a spa and they're doing their ham, but they're like, Hey, like asking about Botox or other services. And so, that really was kind of the gateway. So, I think depending on the environment you're in, like if you're in just a strictly insurance-based office, you know, I think looking at how that arrangement is set up so, that you can either. Bridge that over to the aesthetic side, whether it's like your actual physical office space changing, or like I said, you know, getting those referrals and kind of seeking those out more because they're there. But you're going to have to have some base of aesthetic work before, you know, it's like me rhinoplasty. People are like, well, I want to see your rhinoplasty. Well, I haven't done any. How am I supposed to show you? I've done like three, you know, and they're like, well, you've only done three, you know? So, that's why I'm like, I just don't want to get into that. And so, but if you really want to do something, you're passionate about it, or you want to, you know, kind of shift laterally. Yeah, I think it definitely takes, you have to. Like I said, you have to make some kind of change in your practice, like with how you do it within your practice. And, and I, but I would say, you know, cause I have friends that I've helped and kind of consulted with. Like I said, I consult who have done that recently, you know, they shifted from strictly insurance over to the aesthetic. And I think a big part of that is really utilizing social media. You know, a lot of times people that are insurance or hospital-based hospitals won't let them post those cases or ensure, you know, whatever system they're under. And so, you kind of get in this trap where you can't use any of that. So, everything you're posting is very educational. non patient based. And so, I think transitioning to that in social media you know, it's, it's a little bit hard, but it's very doable. And so, I think doing that is really important. And so, if you start out, you don't cases post educational stuff, talk about it though. Talk about breast augmentation. You, you know, you, you may not have a bunch of cases to show, but you can explain. Explain, you know, the differences between subfascial, submuscular, subglondular. You can do educational content and build that rapport. It just takes consistency and time. That's, you know, I, I started with nothing. I started with zero followers. Everybody starts with zero followers, you know, at least one, my mom and my, my wife. So, two, you know, you can have two followers, but you're going to have to build it from there. So, everybody has to do it. You know, set the start. Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. Who's the creative genius behind you? Is it you, is it your wife? Because your Instagram, it's really creative. Like, it's so, creative. Very, very entertaining. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? I stayed on much longer than I wanted to, and I just got sucked in. So, wait, who, who is the brain behind that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I, well, I'm not going to claim being the brain, but I do run my own social media page. I have the whole time. I'm pretty I kind of cling onto it because it is my personality that's coming through. But a lot of the ideas, whether I'm, you know, I do my homework, I do my homework on Tik TOK, Instagram, and I look to see what trends are or how I can turn that for, you know, plastic something, or it just might be my own idea. But I also, my wife has a lot of good ideas. I will give her full credit. She has some awesome ideas and she'll send me stuff all the time. Like, Hey, Jerry, do this, but do this. Or I'll say, Hey, I'll say I have this audio. I want to use Mindy. I'm like, how can I put that to plastics? And she'll be like, she'll just tell me right away. You know, I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's genius. So, I definitely give her a lot of credit. But I have a social media manager. She's great. Alyssa, she'll send me stuff all the time. My employees, my medical assistants and staff, they have ideas. And so, we've kind of created this culture of, it's almost like, Hey, if you have something fun, let's do it and we'll do it together. Or if you have an idea, let's do it. And I'll give you credit. You know, like I'm not the type of person to just try and take credit for things. Like. I think credit needs to go where it's due. And you know, whether someone filmed something, someone had the idea, someone took a photo, I mean, like in everything we do, like we should credit those people. And so, I think because of that culture, you know, everyone's willing to share and do that. So, I think that's, you know, I give credit to everybody around me, honestly. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I think it's great team building the, the social media. It gets everybody involved and you, and you hear everyone's input and your staff has a lot of creative ideas. So, good for you. Yeah. Last question, tell us something that we don't know about you. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? That's interesting. Although you are already super interesting. There is one thing though. You went to Tokyo. Are you a pain in the neck to go on vacation with? Cause you're filming everything. Are you one of those people? Like, would you just put the darn thing down camera down and let's… Jerry Chidester, MD: I, you know, I, I like to be in the moment, but like there, like for me, like, even like when I wake up and I see a sunrise, like, I feel like I like to take it in, but I also like to capture it on a video or photo. So, I can like reflect on that someday in the future. And for me, like Tokyo, for example, was a childhood dream. I've always wanted to go there. And so, there's certain moments where it's like, yeah, I definitely want a video of that. But then there's times where it's like, nope, phone's away. And we're just going to enjoy the moment. You know, a lot of my life, it's. photography and video, like whether it's Tik Tok, Instagram, whether it's, you know, plastic surgery, I mean, I'm taking photos before and afters, you know, and then photos of my kids and family. So, I think it's just the culture I've been in, but yeah, my wife would say it's very annoying to go to dinner with me because I have to take photos of all the food before anyone can eat. So, yeah, it's probably pretty annoying. All right. So, tell us something we don't know. I made the decision when I was young to, to work, you know, so, I had this, I, when I was in high school, I kind of mentioned earlier, I worked all through high school when I was young. And I think that's really what it, I think it brought me to where I am today because of that decision I made. And maybe I'd be in a similar position or maybe better. I don't know, you know, had I made another decision, but when I was in high school, I made the conscious decision to work. At a job and I carried that job all the way through high school and I really think that helped me build work ethic. I think I learned a lot about myself, what I was capable of and learning to work as a team, but I also, you know, on the other side, I played sports. I played basketball and I played soccer and I, and I tried out for soccer and made the team, but then I literally like pretty much quit that to go work and I always. I don't know if I regretted that because I, I don't know if that would've built me differently, you know, in terms of like team play and all those things. But I think that's something about me that a lot of people don't know because I really chose like that over sports, which a lot of people do the other, and I think, but I think it made me who I am today. The other thing that I'll tell you that no, not a lot of people know about is I mentioned earlier I like to make vi I used to make music videos with my friends. I used to make NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, you know, you name it. No, I used to make music videos. Where can we see your work? Oh, no. Well, I actually tried to convert it from VHS, you know, and it was just such poor quality. It didn't work out very well, but maybe someday I'll find someone who knows how to restore it and I'll put them out there, but you don't want to see those. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. I just can't get over how fast you have grown. I, in all the years I've been doing this, I would say you win on the fast track. You know, yeah. And I'm going to say a lot of this is you're hanging with the right people who got you thinking big early. You also had a great upgrade upbringing, like watching mom and dad work their butts off, I think is just, you know, priceless. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? But then hanging with some people who think bigger. I think anyway, that's how I look at it. Like when I, when you grew up in a little world, I grew up in a very myopic sub suburb in Chicago. And I mean, my mind was blown when I moved from there and went, Whoa, look at what else can I do? You know, I think some of it is that, you know, just… Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I really, I think a lot of, like you said, I think definitely surrounding myself with those people, but I think I learned to surround myself with those people living in Saudi Arabia, you know, and living, like you mentioned, living outside of here, because like I said, it becomes very myopic when you're in your small town or, you know, just living, you know, in that city and going to the same school and the same people. But I also look at it as like, I look back a lot of those people that I grew up with in high school. I, you know, I've leaned on today, you know, and so, it's interesting to think you look back at life, like, you know, people, I think, come into your life at a certain time for a certain reason, and then they leave, but it doesn't mean they don't come back later, you know, and so, I think, you know, in the end, it's like, Every interaction with any person you come across. And this is something I learned in high school early on. Luckily, is that every situation with a human being is like an opportunity to be kind and nice to them. Because I think if you, if you build your relationships in a negative way. Like if you always, I think in my opinion, there's always two ways to treat people. You can be very nice to them or not nice to them. And I think if you constantly do the not nice thing to people, builds up this reputation that you don't even know about, or the way you treat people where that will carry with you eventually, you don't want to call it karma or whatever you want to call it. It definitely comes back to you. But I think on the opposite, if you are nice to people, even if you don't know them, you know, I remember I go on medical school interviews and I would be nice to every single person. Didn't matter. I don't care if anybody saw me or not. Just nice to everybody. You know I think it really comes back to you in the end because I think the way you treat people is how people end up treating you. And, and I think with that attitude that's probably the biggest piece of advice I can have for anybody. Like you can start today. If you haven't been doing that past, start it. Just be nice to people, like treat people like a human being. It sounds so, basic, but we don't do that a lot of times, you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: I have a quote that I have to look at every day because I happen to be, I wish I was as kind hearted as you are. I am impatient. I'm an Irish Catholic redhead and it's pain in the neck. But the quote is life or God, I can't remember, but God will give you what you are, not what you want. And I thought, isn't that the truth? Like, where are you going? You know, are you going to get there the hard way? You're going to go the easier way. And so, true. Anyway, I'm going to let you go. It has been an absolute pleasure. I will be watching your success. I don't know how much bigger you can go, but we'll, we'll see, obviously. Yeah. So, do you want somebody, if somebody was dying to get ahold of you and chat, are you open to that? And if so, how would they do it? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I honestly, I have surgeons probably two, three times a week, reach out to me, whether it's social media or whatever outlet I'm always open to talking to people, whether they're looking for advice about anything, whether it's social media, running a business or any plastic surgery techniques, I'm always open to, they can get ahold of me probably Instagram is my easiest. @drchiddy just DM me. I checked that probably more than anything. And then I'm happy to give you my number through that. And then I'm happy to text and call you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I forgot to ask, how much time do you spend on Instagram and TikTok? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I look through my, yeah, I look at my data. You know, like I said, I probably operate around 60 plus hours a week. And I, and I, then I run a business and I spend probably 20 to 30 hours a week on Instagram and social media. Whether that's creating reels, creating content or answering questions or researching, you know, it's, it's a. Full time job in itself. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait. So, was that 90 to 100 hours a week? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Oh, yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: How many hours a night do you sleep? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: I get like five to six hours. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, dear God. Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. Like, well, I'm like, I'm wide awake. So, I'm very passionate about life. You know, I'm awake. I'm ready to go. Yeah. I mean, residency, you know, you work a hundred plus hours a week. So, I think I just never really, Turn that down. You know, honestly, I kind of came to practice and just kept, kept that. I mean — Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, everybody, you heard it here. Did you want to know how you get fast? You know, success, do what he's doing, you know, 90 to a hundred hours. Jerry Chidester, MD: You may not want to do that. Maybe it won't be as fast, but that's okay. It can be. So, we all have our own growth curves. It's all, and you know, they're all relative. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's fine. Right? And you might slow down later, like maybe now, you know? Because I know some surgeons who are working their butts off now because they want to exit at 45, you know? Yeah. So, it just depends on who you are. I, I always say just know thyself. You know, just know who you are. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. I had a five year, I, I told myself I would go a hundred plus percent for five years and I'm. Getting close to that. So, yeah, and I'm, I mean, you know, I maintain that, but yeah, I know. I feel good. I feel like I'm at a good pace. And I think like I said, you know, you have to have those breaks. Like when it comes, like last week I did a full week of social media break. I just, I'm like, I need a break. I know when I'm kind of at my point and I just need to be with, you know, my family and just break that. And so, you know, I think it's important to have those breaks built in. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my gosh, good for you. I just love all the tips and the pearls you just gave out. It's, it's so, helpful because you make it look so, easy. And like everything else in life, it's the easier it looks, the harder work that went in the back end to make that happen. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years? So, congratulations. I will see you again, I'm sure at a meeting. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Chidester being booked out 2 years. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Chidester, you can reach out to his website at, jerrychidestermd.com. A big thanks to Dr. Chidester for sharing his recipe for success on being booked out 2 years. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Booked Out 2 Years — with Jerry Chidester, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drchiddy #drchiddyutah #drchiddyslc #drchidester #jerrychidestermd #successfulplasticsurgeon | |||
| Fellow to Partner — with Dr. Erin Smith (Ep. 216) | 28 Jul 2023 | 00:51:14 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, going from fellow to partner. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Fellow to Partner — with Dr. Erin Smith". I love interviewing successful surgeons to learn what their journey was like for them to get where they are now, going from fellow to partner. It was never a straight path and it's always filled with pivotal moments of decision that chartered their course, when going from fellow to partner. All of them had mentors and influencers along the way of going from fellow to partner that molded their beliefs, desires and actions they took to carve out their standing in the marketplace. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast was an interview I did with Erin Smith, MD, a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Austin, TX; who went from fellow to partner. We talked about Dr. Smith's journey from growing up in Mississippi, then moving her husband and 3 small kids to Beverly hills to do a fellowship with Dr. Paul Nassif of the show "Botched" and Dr. Babak Azizzadeh of The Center of Advanced Facial Plastic Surgery. Then, how she went from Beverly Hills to becoming a partner in a flourishing practice in Austin, TX, in only three years. One big take-a-way is to immerse yourself in a thriving environment of other successful surgeons who can show you how it's done and save you years of guessing and testing, when going from fellow to partner. Visit Dr. Smith's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Fellow to Partner — with Dr. Erin SmithCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and going from fellow to partner. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to get them more patients and more profit. Now, today's guest is partner Dr. Erin Smith, who made the journey from fellow to partner. She's a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon partner who specializes in both cosmetic and reconstructive procedures from the neck up. Now, Dr. Smith grew up in Mississippi, where she earned her medical degree from the University of Mississippi School of Medicine, and then completed a rigorous five-year head and neck residency program at the University of Mississippi Medical Center — all before starting her journey from fellow to partner. She then completed a fellowship in Beverly Hills with Dr. Paul Nassif, the star of the show Botched, and Dr. Babak Azizzadeh, founder of the Facial Paralysis Institute and Center for Advanced Facial Plastic Surgery, before becoming a partner in another practice. Now, when she's not working, Dr. Smith enjoys spending time with her husband and three daughters and we'll talk more about that. So, Dr. Smith, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. I'm excited to hear your journey of going from fellow to partner. Dr. Erin Smith: Catherine, thank you so, much for having me on today. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. First of all, how does a little girl grow up and say, I want to be a facial plastic surgeon and go from fellow to partner? How do you get there? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, my mom is the one who exposed me to medicine. So, she, growing up was started off as a nurse. She was a labor and delivery nurse for several years. And then she was one of the first people to go on to be a nurse practitioner. So, she through her, I got exposed to medicine and. Ultimately decided to go more of the MD route, but that she was really the one who kind of opened the doors for me. And then, you know, ultimately went to undergrad and was very interested in the brain. So, my undergrad majors were biochemistry and psychology. And I really thought I would go more of like a neurosurgery route or something to do with the brain and then. As time went on, got into med school which I also did in Mississippi, like you mentioned, and, and we started our head and neck surgery blocks in our and you know, you're, you basically have different blocks where you're. Dissecting different parts of the body. And I just loved, loved the face and adding, I thought it was super cool. Specifically, the facial nerve, learning about that, you know, the nerve, the facial nerve is kind of the mind body connection, how we express ourselves, show our show our emotions, speak, eat all, all of the above. And so, I just. I like would hang out in the lab for hours and hours in that specific block. And so, I knew I had kind of a passion for that area. And then as time went on, I got, I did some rotations in the head and neck surgery some more clinical rotations. And I just loved it. I love the surgeries. I love the people. It, this particular specialty definitely attracts a specific type of person, people that are. Want to do surgery, but we kind of are known as like the nice surgeons, you know, we're, everybody's pretty type a and hardcore, but also you know, down to earth overall. And so, I during, you know, med school kind of leaned more and more towards that. And then ultimately decided to pursue my residency program and, and head and neck surgery residency. It's all over the map. You know, you're, you're, you're doing everything from taking out huge head and neck. tumors to trauma. And I loved it all. I really, I truly did. But I found myself really gravitating towards anything soft tissue related where I could really get, get in there and get my hands dirty. And, you know and I loved sewing. I love just a little intricacies of that. And so, and then throughout that process was still remain interested in, in facial, the facial nerve. Learning about facial paralysis and how I could kind of integrate that into everything. And so, that's what really drew me into ultimately pursuing the fellowship. So, I went, you know, I was living in Mississippi but did my interviews all over the country. I, you know, I wanted to really open my, and I can talk about kind of. Later, but I want to, I interviewed all over and then ultimately ended up in Beverly Hills with Dr. Aziz a day and his fellowship is just really incredible because it, it does a great job of mixing like very high-end cosmetic which you don't get that in your residency, you know, in academic setting, you're, you're doing a lot of great surgeries, but you're not really getting that, that cosmetic side as much. And then he has such a unique. Yeah. Practice where he has a private practice where he's doing facial nerve work and reconstructive procedures of the face. So, his niche that he had out there was very intriguing to me. So, that ultimately made me pick up our whole family and I can go back and talk about kind of that process later. But yeah, we picked up our whole family and ended up in LA and then ultimately ended up here. So, there was, it was a lot of series of small steps along the way that got me here, but. I'm super happy for where I am now. So… Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, but let's not gloss over that. That's a big deal. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? So, here you are in Mississippi, before going from fellow to partner. You've always probably lived there. How much of a sticker shock sticker shock culture shock was it to go from Mississippi to Beverly Hill? And how sure were you? You must have been so, sure to move the family there. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: I mean, I honestly never. I, you know, I knew I, I did undergrad in Mississippi because I, I love my university and I got a great, great scholarship. I went to Ole Miss, which is a great s e c college, and I got into the honors college there. So, that was a calculated decision to stay there for undergrad. Med school came along, same thing in med school. I had, I liked to have my daughter, my third year of med school. And so, by the time it came around to apply to residency programs, she was almost one. And I, you know, at that time I, even in residency, I, I really wanted to go away and kind of go broader, but we made it, we made a calculated decision to stay close to family during that time because we were, we just had a young baby and. I was planning to have more. I knew that at the time. So, by the time that fellowship came along, I was like, okay, I'm, I'm ready. And so, I knew I wanted to go away and, and fellowship's just such a blink of an eye. It's a short time period. So, I knew I wanted to get a broader exposure. I probably would've gone away sooner and, and done. And, but one, I just made it a calculated decision to stay closer to where we had grandparents around. For, for my kids and ultimately the, the university Mississippi head and neck surgery program is incredible. So, that was, it was, I interviewed all over the country, even for residency and, and wanted to end up really wanting to stay there, but just because of, I mean, Mississippi has really some of the sickest people in the country, and so, I knew I would see kind of the worst of the worst, like the pathology that I'm exposed to there, whether it be trauma related or just. severe advanced cancer. I knew that I could really, you know, for lack of better term, get my hands dirty and be really exposed to the worst of the worst, which would ultimately make me prepared to deal with anything. And so, that I feel like staying in Mississippi for that really helped me really develop my surgical skills. And then going out to L. A. Was how I feel like I fine tune things, you know, we're able to kind of Fine tune things. And I, and but yeah, moving, moving out there was definitely, I had lived in other cities in the South. I had lived in Atlanta. I lived in New Orleans. I, you know, wasn't always in a, in a small town, but definitely LA was, it was a sticker shock in a good way. I absolutely loved it. Even considered staying there. Love the weather. So, I'm, I'm an outdoors person and, you know, even though my fellowship was grueling, meaning the hours were, Yeah. You know, crazy, crazy long hours, which was a good thing. Cause I learned a lot. I would come out and it would still be beautiful and sunny and perfect LA weather. So, no matter how hard I was working, I was always in a good mood just because, you know, being, being around that, that LA sunshine and being close to the beach. So, I loved it. And, you know, again, yeah, we thought we would stay out there, but ultimately kind of landed in the middle of Austin. Catherine Maley, MBA: Your partner husband was a-okay with it. Because the fellowships only one year. Did you have a plan for what happens after that year? You were like, well, did you have a plan? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: So, yeah, so, my program that I was at my residency program another kind of kind of backtracking a little bit. 1 of the reasons that I. Really shows facial plastics. My mentor, Randy Jordan he was my mentor in Mississippi and ultimately my fourth year of residency, I was really kind of leaning towards facial plastic fellowship. And he has a really cool practice where he's, you know, an academic professor at the university, but he also has a private clinic called faces where he does a lot of cosmetic procedures. So, I was very intrigued by his case mix. Meaning that he could go do these really cool reconstructive cases and teach residents at the hospital, but then have his kind of more high-end cosmetic practice. And so, around my fourth year, I was talking to him and, and, and saying, you know, let him know, I was thinking about doing facial plastics. Actually, I guess it was my third year. Cause you, you decide a little earlier. And that's when I started, he's, he said, he said, Aaron, there's not a lot of practices like mine. It's really hard to find where you get the best of both worlds. So, he recommended that I come and basically kind of shadow some different other doctors that, that have facial plastics practices. So, before I made that decision to leap to do the fellowship. And so, that's when I actually came in shadow, Dr. Buckingham here, cause they, they knew each other through the academy. So, I was a third-year resident, and then I went and shouted at a doctor in Atlanta and ultimately decided that yes, this is what I wanted to do. So, my husband and we're communicating at the time. He's a financial planner. So, he's in business. He has a CFP license. And so, starting it was a. He started working from home. Actually, maybe it was around that time period. He moved companies and he was working from home commuting once a week to into an office a few hours away, but he was working from home. So, when it became time for me to decide where I wanted to go for fellowship. There were really no limitations, which was really nice. His company so, he was doing Zooms before, before the pandemic, before Zooms were a big thing. And so, yeah, he was, my husband was super supportive of, you know, it's, it's a short time period. It's a, you know, one year of your life. So, we were, we were prepared to go anywhere that basically offered the best training. So, then that's really been beneficial for me throughout my career and even, you know, getting my, my, my job now that he was able to kind of transition. So, he's had this, his same job for the last 10 years, and it's been able to kind of transition where I transition. Catherine Maley, MBA: And so, how many kids to California with you? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: So, my husband, you know, I always thought I would, I wait till, you know, after fellowship, after all of my training to have kids, that was my initial plan when I was younger. And then I met my husband and he is he's eight years older than me. And so, by the time, you know medical school came around, he's, you know, not, he's not old, but he's eight years older than me. So, he was ready. And I, you know, entertain the idea. sooner because I was, you know, I didn't want to wait too long. And so, during medical school, I, every child, I made a very calculated decision. Okay. I'm on this research block or I'm on this rotation. And we were very lucky that we were able to, you know, conceive when we did, when we did And so, we, we started having babies, you know, my, my third year of medical school, I had a child, and then my intern year, and then my, my fourth year. Each child, you know, it was, I think things have actually evolved. I mean, I'm not, my kids aren't that old, but I think that the way, you know, childbearing during residency, I think it's a little bit easier than it was then. I mean, for you know, For Amelia, my, my she's my, she's almost 10 now. I was luckily in med school. I was on a research block, so, I got a good month off with her. My poor middle child, Stella, I had basically three weeks off. And the middle child always, Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, yeah, I'm a middle child and I'm still recovering. Dr. Erin Smith: We were lucky because I had, you know, again, I made the decision to stay closer to grandparents. So, when it was time for me to go back to work, I was able to have. Grandparents and even siblings come step in for those few weeks. And then my kids were all daycare kids. And you know what, they're tough and they, they did great with it. And then my, my third child, I had my fourth year of residency. I was on a research block. So, she's kind of my spoiled child because she got a full eight weeks. So, we have about two, two months of a research rotation where I could work from home. So, she's my, my, we call her my coddled child. Cause I actually got, you know, a real maternity leave with her. But yeah, we you know, I, I think that in life there's, there's never a good time to have kids, whether you're, whether you're in your twenties, thirties or forties, no matter what stage of your career that you're in, it's never a convenient thing to do at all. So, I, you know, was able to, to, to work it out where I was able to do it during my training and really not hinder my, my co fellows or anything. I or co residents, I front loaded my call and, you know, there's just ways to do it that if you're. If you're smart about it, you can keep, you don't have to extend your residency or anything like that. And my program was, was, was pretty supportive, you know, I, I still, and I think, you know, just being a woman in medicine, we're, we're, we're trained to work twice as and just to, you know, keep up. And so, if anything, you know, If anything, I worked harder the years I had kids just to make up for where people weren't, you know, thinking I was, you know, being a slacker or anything like that. So, by the time I got to a fellowship to move to LA, my kids were my youngest. I think they were going into first grade. First grade, pre k four, and then my youngest was two. And we got very, very lucky that we found this amazing school that was a block from our house. So, it was this cute Catholic school that we went to church, the same place. And so, I, you know, my husband would walk them to school in the morning, a block away and pick them up during the day or pick him up in the afternoon. And he was able to, you know, for the most part, you know, balance his work as well. So, we just got. Very lucky being able to get into that school. And they had afterschool programs. So, you know, sometimes I could pick the kids up and they stayed there till, you know by four or five in the afternoon. And so, that's always been, it is just kind of Making sure we have really great childcare and, and, and people that love our kids like we do. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when you are, your fellowship is coming to an end, before you became a partner. How did you get, well, let's stay with California? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Where did Dr. Paul Nassif fit into all of this? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, so, the fellowship is basically, there're two main fellowship directors, Paul Nassif and Babak Azizzadeh. So, my year was the first year that we started having two fellows. And so, when we had two fellows, we basically would rotate every two months, where I would spend two months with Dr. Nassif, two months with Dr. Azizzadeh. And so, ultimately, by the end of the year. year, you have about six months of one-on-one time with each of those two physicians. And then, you know, if they were, if Dr. Nassif was filming "Botched", or if they were at a conference or a meeting that I wasn't going to, we would work with other doctors in Beverly Hills. So, I got to work with a lot of other great doctors, Rebecca Fitzgerald, she's a cosmetic dermatologist, who's amazing. Guy Masry, oculoplastic surgeon also. So, I consider all of that whole group are like, they were just all amazing. The lifelong mentors. But yeah, so, with Dr. Nassif he does, you know, a lot of cosmetic aging face, but at really high-volume rhinoplasty. So, with him, I was able to get, you know, very cutting-edge rhinoplasty experience. And then Dr. Azizzadeh leans a little bit more towards the aging phase. He does great rhinoplasty as well, but leans a little bit more towards aging face. So, it was a really great balance fellowship. And then also of course, getting that that facial nerve exposure that was just kind of a, I wanted to have a niche, you know there's a lot of facial plastic surgeons, but I wanted to have a niche that I could market myself and getting that facial nerve exposure was, was really, I think just a, one, it's a passion of mine, but to being able to have a niche of another way to. Kind of market myself of, of something that not everyone offers. So, the fellowship was incredible. I mean, I worked my butt off. I was many, many long nights, weekends, long hours, but I wouldn't take a day of it back cause I you know, that they prepared me extremely well to be out in practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, then the next big transition is getting from Beverly Hills to Buckingham facial plastics in Austin, Texas. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? What's the thought process there and what was the plan? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, again, you know, it doesn't, you think, oh, I stayed in, I got, had all my training in Mississippi. That's where I'm heading back. But that was never the plan that really all my decisions have been based on one, my career and also what's best for my family. And so, when I was in LA, I did have a great opportunity to go back to my home program and you know, end up working side by side with Dr. Jordan and kind of being his, his partner. And it was an incredible opportunity. But we kind of felt like we served our time. Our plan was never to be in Jackson, Mississippi for 10 years, but it was great for what we needed. I got incredible training. We literally had our babies and raised our babies there. And, and so, it, it served the perfect. Purpose for what we needed, but that wasn't necessarily where we wanted to be long term. So, even though it was an incredible opportunity to go back there. I just, I didn't feel like it was the right thing. My mom was about 45 minutes in New Orleans. So, I had a great opportunity to join a, you know, a group there. I loved LA. I considered staying there. LA is very, you know, it's saturated in this I had a, I had a candid conversation with Dr. Aziz today, kind of you know, around Christmas time and let them know, like, you know, who doesn't love LA just because of the weather. And he's like, of course you love it. Everybody loves it here. And he's like, you knew what you could be very successful here. But it's a, it's a slow a slow rising, you know, it, it, it takes a while to really be extremely successful there. Just because of the, of how saturated it is. And for our family, it just wasn't the right, even though, I mean, it was so, hard to leave that little cute school that I was mentioning and that where our kids were. So, yeah, I started kind of looking all over and I was, we were really open to any, it was really, what was the best opportunity for my career to launch? And, and be able to launch the scope of practice that I wanted to have. And then where was the best place to raise our kids. And so, we looked all over and when I slightly backtracking, I mentioned that I had Spent some time with Dr. Buckingham when I was thinking about doing a facial plastic fellowship and then once I it was time to interview for facial plastics fellowships, I interviewed here as well. And so, I had already met him twice and, and spent time with him twice. And really, I love the practice. I love the group of people. He's just such a savvy businessman and has really done an amazing, incredible job of building a really great team. And this is when our team was much smaller. But so, that was always kind of in the back of my mind. And then Austin was a city that I always had enjoyed visiting. I'm, I'm, I'm very much into outdoors. I love music and I had, I had visited here a few times just when I was in college and after college, and it was always a city that I felt gravitated towards, I always, you know, even, even when I'd only been here twice, I'm like, I could live there. And so, I, when I interviewed here for a fellowship I, I had like three interviews back-to-back. It was here and then I immediately flew to San Francisco and then I flew down to LA and they all were back-to-back and they all three were my favorite places that I interviewed. So, it was a very hard decision. And so, I, I had a, I was almost, I almost came here for, for fellowship. But I did it. And then and at that time, Dr. Buckingham, he was You know, he had a, he had a fellow, but he was not interested in expanding or adding to his practice. And so, when I was in fellowship that I was, it was around Christmas. He reached out to Dr. Azizzadeh to get my new email because my previous one had expired and Azizzadeh forwarded me an email from Dr. Buckingham. And he basically was at the point where he was ready to eventually add a new, add a partner to his group. He had this great building that he was that was in fruition finally, and he was just ready to finally expand. And so, he reached out to me and I was in, I was at this point, I was, you know, again, it was pre pandemic. I was loving LA and we were, I was, even though I was only six months in there, we made such a great group of friends. And I was, I was like, okay, I got this interview to go to Austin. Let me go check it out. And my husband was 100% on board. He's like, we're, we're not California people. Southern people. So, LA, you know, Austin's a great middle zone. And so, he was, he was very excited about the opportunity to come back here. And so, I came here literally for like a red eye. It wasn't a red eye, but it was, I was here for 16 hours. It was a very a quick trip because my fellowship was, again, I was in the heat of it where it was really hard to. And so, I came here, got in town for dinner, had a great dinner with Dr. Buckingham and his wife, Dawn, who's an incredible surgeon as well. And we had, and then, you know, the next day spent some time back with the practice and it just really solidified what I'd already felt, you know, years prior it was just... You kind of like knowing your heart, it's like when you find a. A relationship, you know, when you fall in love with your spouse, you just kind of know you know, when it's the right thing. And so, I got back home and he was really, you know, the, the, the scope of the practice that I would be able to do in Austin was really exactly what I wanted that same scope that Dr. Jordan said was, was hard to find, you know, getting that. balance where you're teaching and doing reconstructive procedures, but also doing cosmetic and also me being able to do my facial nerve work. There's, there's a paucity of that in not only Austin, but in Texas where there's not really any other doctors providing the particular techniques and surgeries that I was trained to do. So, it just made, it made sense. It was the right decision to come here for my family, financially, all of the above. The city is just a very kid friendly, a very family friendly. So, being able to come somewhere where I knew that we could, you know raise our kids that's safe where we can, where I could really grow my, my practice and be able to work with, you know, a, a really nice established practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you never had a thought to like go solo or work for a hospital. You thought it would be best to just join a practice that would allow you to do. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, so, I want to do class and reconstructive. I had, I wanted, I looked at all, all, all the options. So, joining a hospital that was, there was a, there was probably three or different interviews that I did for that in different cities. In LA there was a couple opportunities to, to do, you know, join where I'm doing kind of a combination of more of like reconstructive stuff and then, But it's really hard. A lot of those hospital environments, it's really hard to get it into the cosmetic sector, you know, especially if you're on a salary RV model, a lot of the even my colleagues that are in my fellowship year are having a really hard time of, of balancing that out. So, I knew that if I were to join a hospital, that that would have been, it would be hard for me to be able to eventually branch out. It's definitely doable, but private practice kept pulling me. And then, you know, at this point in my career, I was ready to the reason I ultimately just, I didn't want to start from the bottom up, you know, I was, I had at this point, three kids, a family, I wanted some kind of steady income, you know, and so, joining a practice that's, you know, established was just the right like thing to us to do financially. My husband had been grinding and supporting us for a really long time, but I got to the point where I was, I was ready just to enjoy my family. I mean, of course, work hard at my, my, my work, but I was ready to be able to not. Okay, start from scratch with a business where I'm having to not only be learned to, to, you know, be out in the clinical world on my own, but also have to be there on the business side. I wanted to take away that stressor so, that I could enjoy you know, being with my kids. Cause they, I mean, those early stages of their life some, there was a lot of time with them that was sacrificed. They would never know it. You know, they don't, they don't, they honestly don't remember a lot of those early stages. So, that's one of the benefit of, you know, kind of having children when, when you're in training. But I was ready to make them a priority. And so, in my mind, starting a business from the ground up would have really stolen more of that time from them. So, that was, that was a big factor too, as being able to kind of get more of that work life balance for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: The, with Dr. Buckingham. Do you, how does the marketing work? Do you market yourself? Does he, is he such a marketing machine that he just ciphers off patients for you? Or how are you working that part out? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, I mean, he was super generous starting to practice. So, when I came here, once I, you know, finally signed the contract, it was he, he started marketing, they started marketing, doing press releases and stuff and whatnot right away. You know, with, with the practice money, I wasn't like having to, To do that on my own before I arrived you know, we had a few magazine articles and things like that and just sort of send emails to the, you know, our patients and whatnot. And basically, the reason that he finally decided to hire a partner was because he was booked out surgically months and months and months, you know, for consults over six to nine months. And so, he was losing patients, patients were going elsewhere cause they didn't want to wait. And so, you know, if, if a patient called in and they wanted to see him and they, they would go to him, but if they're. Just want to come in and see any doctor and it's more of they just want to have something done, then they, then they would get transitioned to me. And so, that was really great. I mean, I, my practice took off immediately of getting here. I think we just, there was a void of because he has built this practice. We're going on 20 years now in the fall. He's been here for now 20 years. So, he has such an incredible reputation and the. His patients knew that if he was going to bring on a provider that it was going to be a very calculated decision on who he brings on. So, the reputation that he was able to build, you know, people trusted me you know, early on, which I'm very grateful for that. And so, he did some front-end marketing and then, yeah, once we got me in here, we've continued to just, you know, market us both, but basically if a patient. Calls and they didn't have a doctor preference, then they would, they would be, they would be filtered to me unless they really, really wanted to see him. And so, that allowed my schedule to get busy pretty quickly. And so, now in terms of, you know, marketing, we were we, we have several different outlets, obviously, you know, Google, the Google engine that I'm learning that I'm learning that. Side of the business. But you know, there's a, we, we have several magazines that will be featured in and the, and the big beast that we're learning is social media. You, Dr. Buckingham, before I came on that he was, if anything, a little bit anti-social media. Yeah. Just because you know, our, our aging face population who are in there. 60s and whatnot. They're there. Most of them aren't, or at least in the past, we're not going to the social media, they were going more to the website, but that's changing. I, one of my like top patients at this, you know, by the spry 82-year-old woman. And she said, you know, she checks, checks our Instagram every day. So, I feel like I, you know, that's something that I. Started starting my own Instagram account that is it's linked to the practice, but that's a way where patients can get to know me outside of the, the, the, the Buckingham umbrella because they, they want to know who I am you know, personally, and, you know, they want to see my results and whatnot. And so, that's been something that. Has been important to me. It's having my own Instagram account where people can go to that and get a little, a little bit of a notion of who I am and get a vibe for my personality and my, my, my style and whatnot. So, you know, it's hard to maintain. I, the busier you get in practice, it's really hard to. To keep that going. But luckily now we have some good marketing people. I still mean I still manage my own Instagram account. I'm not posting on it probably enough as I should, but I'm keeping it alive just because I want people to be able to look at me specifically. But so, that's been kind of a way that I've marketed myself outside of the practice. And, you women physicians. That's been a big, a big thing and, and participating in any kind of you know, any kind of women's meeting, Austin Women, the things like that, that helps. But really, I mean, it's just word, pretty much after a few years, it becomes word of mouth with it. The best, the best patients I have are word of mouth patients from, My previous patients that I've operated on. So… Catherine Maley, MBA: Always, always. I don't know why doctors don't spend more time on the patients they have who will bring them everybody else they need. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, yeah, new patients. Catherine Maley, MBA: They want to spend a bucket of money on AdWords. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, I think there's an easier way to do this. Yeah, so, yeah, and I'm, and this is definitely an area where I'm just now learning because again, I'm, I'm, I'm in my third year here and the first two, three years I was focused on operating, getting good surgical results and make and making good relationships with my patient, but recently I've joined, I've bought in as a partner. And so, with that, I, I, I have to yeah. You know, know more about the business side. So, I've slowly been studying over the last few years, but there's just so, much more to learn. I mean, I, I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of. Everything there is to learn, you know, to run a business. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Buckingham is the perfect mentor for that. His mentor was Ed Williams. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Oh yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Dr. Williams and I used to run a surgeon's coaching club together you know, called Master's Academy of Surgeons, learning the business side of surgery. So, Dr. Buckingham just really knows it well. And you also got a front row seat to how to build a building, like, from scratch. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? You watched all of that, that I just had. Dr. Erin Smith: Our new building is absolutely incredible, but it was definitely, there were some growing pains. I mean, we're, we're so, happy to be here, but yeah, there's just so, many, there's so, much red tape for that and getting, you know, we now have a quad ASF certified surgery center, but that took, you know, many, many, many, many long, long nights on days of, of just so, many, it's such a long process, but it's definitely worth it in the end. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I didn't know you bought in. That's fantastic. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, Catherine Maley, MBA: That's actually a foot, right? You're not in the last month. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: My contract allowed for, you know, after I think it was two years that I was, that was an opportunity. And so, yeah, we're, we Dr. Buckingham and I have just an incredible relationship. We are really, really good balance to each other. You know, I think we, we handle our patients similarly, but have different styles and whatnot. So, yeah, I've, I've just been very grateful to be here and. Our practice has grown. I think when I started there was 14 people and I think we're now around 25, 26. With now that we have our surgery center. So, you know, and we're continuing to grow and we, we actually just hired our current fellow to stay on board with us as well. So, now we'll have three MDs plus our, our fellow. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how do you make decisions? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: With the three of, you know, he, our, our fellow isn't making decisions just yet, but he's definitely, he's incredible. I mean that we, we probably weren't a hundred percent ready. We probably would have waited a few more years to hire somebody, but when you have a good fit, you have to, you have to jump on it. So, our current fellow is just a superstar. The staff love them. He's the patients love him. He's a great surgeon. So, we did not want to. You know, wait a few more years to and the right candidate not come along. So, we have managers meeting every once a month. And so, that's where we all get together with our Dr. Buckingham, Myself, our current fellow who's will be joining us and then our managers. And, you know, it's all of us just, we have talking points and we all are chiming in. So, that's really where we're all, most of the decision making happens. I definitely rely on Dr. Buckingham's expertise and wisdom. But he's, he's. From day one has just been incredible of letting me guide my practice, make decisions and, and been supportive. So, he's always open to whatever it might be, whether, you know, we finally, we were like, we have to do, we have to, you know, advance our social media. We have to, people are looking at that and he's like, okay, let's do it. So, whatever we whatever new ideas, he's always on board for that. So, luckily, you know, there hasn't been any conflicts where we are in disagreement. I'm sure it will come down the road. That's good to have healthy, healthy conflict and disagreement matters. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I meant to ask you, what do you think about the cosmetic patients, the taste they have, the demands they have, have you noticed that they're changing social media and all other things, you know? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Absolutely. I mean, yeah, social media is a, it's definitely, it's been a beast. It's, it's good because it's allowing people to be more comfortable with cosmetic surgery, but then people are more informed, but not necessarily in a good way. You know so, yeah, I mean, our aesthetic here, our, our, our particular practice is only facial plastic surgery. So, we don't do any body work or whatnot. And so, we our aesthetic is very natural. You know, I, I, I want. I want to make you still look like yourself, but you know, not to not, I want to basically get you back to looking what you used to look like 20 years ago without making you look tight or pulled or anything like that. And so, I think that that's why people come here. I've also been very lucky in Austin, this, this particular patient population. They're all very, it's a very down to earth population where everybody wants to look, look restored. But the majority of my patients are not crazy. Believe it or not, they're not, they're not high maintenance. They're very, you know, normal and realistic. So, that's been, I think that that's in LA, you know, my, my patient population was all over the world. We, Dr. Nassif and Dr. Azizzadeh literally had people flying in from all over the world, which was a great training, but we had, we kind of had a mix of personalities. But Austin in general typically attracts a certain type of person people that are pretty natural and down to earth. And so, that our. We're very lucky with having that here. There're definitely people that, you know, come in wanting trendy stuff. Buckle fat is a big trend right now. Everybody wants to know about buckle fat, lip lifts. Those are things that are for sure trending right now. Threads, we, I don't, I don't do thread lifting just because I think that they don't last long and they're kind of a rip off, but that some people are always asking about that. But the thing that people are really. On Instagram and wherever social media outlet, there's so, many different names for different types of facelifts. So, that's like, that's, I have even friends that are my age. I'm in my late thirties and I have friends that are like, what is the ponytail lift? What is the, the weekend lift? What is the, you know, mini lift? What is the limited lift? And so, that's just, you know, educating and everybody knows about deep plane now. They always want to know, are you going to do a deep plane? And so, it just kind of being able to educate patients on anatomy. It's a fun part of what I do. That was a big thing I learned from Azizzadeh is that, When you go in, like when you're, when you're talking to a patient, talk to them, like they're your friend or their family member. And you're literally just educating them. You're not trying to sell them on anything. You're just educating them on what they have. And so, I like that. I like that patients are more informed and they come in with educated questions. But yeah, overall, we're very lucky that people ultimately kind of trust us to, to help guide them. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, just watching the practice now you've been there three years, what would you say is the biggest challenge to running a cosmetic practice from your perspective? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's a, like you said, the best word of mouth is, or the best marketing is word of mouth. And so, you know, making sure you keep your current patients happy and, in the door, and, and making sure you're always thinking about how to retain them. And that's. That's a big thing. And then getting new patients. I mean, in general, Austin is a, it's a rapidly growing city. And so, we have a lot more surgeons that have slowly come here over the last few years. And so, making yourself stand out and, and, and staying booked out, you know, I, Definitely, there's some ebbs and flows where there's in the summer and the and the holidays I'm booked out and then I get it gets to, you know, February and August and things are slower and I start, you know, panicking a little bit. What's happening? Is it the economy? Why is it slowing down? And luckily, you know, it that those ebbs and flows work themselves out, but just making sure we're doing the right thing to keep our practice relevant and keep our practice of being kind of the cutting-edge practice in Austin that everyone wants to come to and attracting people from around Austin. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you cannot be ignored with the size of that building. What if it's 12, 000 square feet? Gorgeous. It's huge. You can't miss it. That was a good move. Let's talk about the personal side. How in the world are you growing this practice? You're growing your name in a new community. You've got a husband and three kids and a dog, and I think you'd like to be outside. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? How are you pulling all that off? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: I am a master multitasker. So, I always have, you know, a paper running to do list every month. I have, I basically redo my, my paper to do list and I have a column, a life column, a work column, and then some other research column, you know, and so, I, I, I'm always having, I'm always adding and taking away from that, but really trying to consolidate time. So, if I'm in my car, I might be listening to a podcast or I might be calling my parents. Or calling an old friend you know, I don't, I'm not just occasionally I'll just listen to music and but, but I'm trying to make every hour as productive as possible. That's been a, I would say a big thing of that I've learned over the last year and that now I do have more elective time for myself so, now that I am running my own practice or I am able to. Achieve a better work life balance. And so, one thing that I've that it's kind of a struggle that I've been focusing on this year is when I do have downtime away from work and I am with my kids to actually stop multitasking, you know, that's, and, and just enjoy the moment. I recently read this book that I recommend for, you know, anyway, it's called happier hour. It was, it was written by a professor at UCLA who she, she actually teaches a class on happiness there. But it's a very good It really hit, hit home with me because she's a multitasking mom and whatnot. And so, so basically learning when I can actively multitask and when I can be busy, busy, busy, and then being able to transfer when I'm with my kids and with my family and turn it off and being able to just enjoy the present. So, that's something that I'm not, I mean, I'm not saying I'm an expert at, I'm getting better at, but then. And those times when I'm not with my kids and my and not with my husband using that time as wisely as possible. And so, that's just it's a constant balance, but really being able to use your every minute wisely. Do you ever feel burnt out? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, luckily, I absolutely love what I do. I enjoy, like I, I get happiness from my job. There're days where I'll have a run of difficult patients where, you know, whether it's a skin cancer patient or even a, or a cosmetic patient. Where at the end of the day, I'm spent, you know, I'm mentally drained because I've been I typically will have one long clinic day and some days, those days are full of just happy post op patients or people who are planning to have surgery. And those are like, very energetic, happy days, but then some days I'll have a back-to-back run of people who are. You know, sad from whatever that, you know, skin cancer they have, or they're, you know, not, they don't love their outcome or whatever it may be. Or, you know, I just feel like I'm dragging, I feel like I'm not doing my best. And so, those days, yeah, it's not that I'm burnt out, but I, I just feel, you know, I need something to uplift me and that's where, you know, physical exercise and being outside helps a lot. So, after when I'll get home, I'll try to go for a walk with my kids or walk with my dog or just being. Kind of turning that off and being able to switch over because it's important for me not to carry that with me home. I mean, as a physician, if you're a good doctor and you care about your patients, some, you know, it's normal to, to not be able to get that off your mind sometimes. But I've gotten better about that because I know that if you go into every day and you truly are doing your best and you truly are treating everyone like you treat, would treat your mom or you treat your, you know, family member and you spend adequate amount of time with each patient, whatever they need, because that's their time they're devoting to you. And if you devote that time to them and you truly do not cut corners and you do your best, then, you know, nobody's perfect. And so, at the end of the day you should be, I, I, I, and I've gotten better about this, being able to turn that off and be able to devote all my time for my kids, knowing that I did. the best I could that day. And so, there's definitely days where are harder where I, you know, I do feel burnt out or that, you know, I just feel like, oh, mentally drained. I did like this, it was just not the best day, but doing whatever I can to kind of snap out of that when I'm, when I do leave the office specifically just trying to, you know, spend time with my kids or be outside or exercise the exercise thing. You know, that, that's a, that's a hard thing for me to try to do on my own. So, my morning time is my, you know, I, I try to get that protected for myself to exercise, but even if it's just a short walk, just to kind of reset. Catherine Maley, MBA: I, the exercise I love it's the meditating. I don't know how you're type A and meditating at the same time. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? I struggle with that and I try over and over to sit still and. Yeah. I just gave up. I said, you know what? I'm just going to meditate and walk at the same time. I can't. Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, it's really hard. For nature grounds me. So, we recently splurged and joined a boat club and that was honestly one of the best things that we could do. So, Lake Austin is absolutely beautiful. It's just like, you feel like you're not even in. America. It's so, pretty with the hill country area and just being out there with my kids. I'm able to completely decompress and just like be with them in nature. Our dog can come out. And so, that's been a really kind of great thing that we've been doing on the weekends. And that is just, it's just very healing being out there. And I'm able to turn off my brain because that's, that's the hardest thing is for the past 10, 15 years, I have been 90 to nothing to be able to Have my kids and, you know, run a household and run a practice. You have, you have to be able to do that. You have to be able to multitask, but so, that's really my biggest learning challenge of probably the future in the next few years is being able to, to, to turn it off and, and be able to do both where you multitask when it's time, but also being able to enjoy the present. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, any advice for anybody coming up or thinking about switching? We talk a lot on this podcast about somebody in a hospital wanting to get out and go to private, somebody private, wanting to go back to the hospital, like every scenario on the planet. Any advice for others who are thinking about shifting? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, I mean, I think that you, you really need to, depending on what your motivating factor, like my motivating factor, I've always loved my career, but my family is now taking it. Luckily, I'm able, my career is flourishing, but my family is my priority. And so, I think looking inward and figuring out what, what drives you and what and, and what, what's most important. So, and then just planning it out, doing some research, our field, I mean, all of my previous mentors are, they respond in a second to an email. And I think in general, we're all just very supportive of each other. And so, don't, if you're a burnout and you're setting, whether that be that you're in private practice and you're grinding and you're not happy there, you're in the hospital setting and you want to get out, then it just takes, you know, a few steps to plan it and getting and finding a support system and finding somebody else that's out in that field, you know, out in that where your goal is and they can definitely guide you and help you. You know, I feel like I've spent the last 10 years just grinding and grinding and grinding to get to where I am. And I really haven't, you know, done a great job of offering my wisdom and knowledge I've gained along the years of being able to, you know balance that out. So, that's something that I look forward to in the future is being able to mentor mom, you know, residents who want to be a mom and want to be able to balance it. And, and we're in, we're currently, you know, in, in the interview season right now for our fellows. And it's just really great to see these young people coming up and I'm excited to be able to mentor them, not only on the surgical side, but also, you know, how to, how to balance it all. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, they need help because there's nothing easy about what you're doing, but no, but you guys make it look easy because I always wonder about that. Like, wow, how are you doing that? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: I mean, I can't take away my spouse and my spouse is that I haven't really brought him up, but he has been an amazing support system. Whenever he proposed to me, we we've been together now, 15 years, we met in 2007. Whenever he proposed to me, we were married, we're dating a few years. My dad, he had that, you know, private meeting with my dad and my dad. Said to him this is before I was even in med school, my dad said to him, like, do not ever hold her back, whatever she wants to do, let her go all the way. And he stayed true to that. And so, you know, his career it, it, I wouldn't say it didn't take the backseat, but cause he was, he was, he's the one who supported me the whole, all along the way. And, and, you know, it was with the what basically the. The one who brought in the money to get to allow us to do these things that we did. But he's also been an incredible, incredible dad too. So, not only has he financially been there, but you know, he's, he's transitioned to more maternal roles when he's had to being the one that with his, with him working from home, his job's always been more flexible than mine. So, you know, if we have a sick kid, usually it's him cause I'd have to cancel. and where he can kind of, you know, still work from home and whatnot. So, having him as a support system has been, I don't think I could have done it otherwise. So, whether it be your parent or your spouse, you know, leaning on the people in your life that love you, they, they want to help. If I've had a conference where I'm going to need to be gone for a few nights, we'll, we'll fly in a grandparent. I mean, I would say. That's the biggest negative of being in Austin is that we're, we're not close to grandparents, but now with, with plane rides or they're an hour away, you know, so, they can get here pretty quickly. And they see it. They FaceTime and video call. They can see our kids frequently, but having a support system is huge. I mean, I did a lot of it on my own with You know, being able to multitask, but a lot of it was having a great, a great support system. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I definitely to him for being surrounded by four women. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Hopefully. Oh, wow. I know. I know. And he's crazy. He would have another kid. I'm like, nope, nope. Yeah, we have our, we have our boy dogs, so, we're, we're all good. Catherine Maley, MBA: At least he's got that. Yeah. Does he have a man cave or did he take over the garage or? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, I mean, he has his office. That's kind of his man, his man cave. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, for sure. So, last question, tell us something we don't know about you. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner? Dr. Erin Smith: I'm an avid music lover. I wish I had, I wish, I don't play any instruments. My kids are playing instruments because I want to live vicariously through them one day. But if I, if I had to retire, I would, and I could do something else in a future life. I would want to be in a band. I you know, that Austin, the music scene here is incredible. And I that's I, I take my kids to shows all the time. That's, The great thing about the city is it's super kid friendly. And so, we are, we are constantly going to outdoor festivals and music you know, as much as we can. So, that's, that's kind of what another thing that kind of grounds me is, is being, is hearing music, being around music, black specifically live music. I love it. So, that's another thing that can kind of relax my brain and make me just. Chill out and enjoy the moment. Do they still have Southwest-by-Southwest or whatever that was called? Southwest-by-Southwest. It's really cool that, yeah, so, that's been a really, I had no idea what it was when it first, when I first moved here. But it's a basically a, you know, a two-week music fest. It's music, it's film, it's a comedy. Art all of the above tech and we're basically, it's a big conference, but you get to discover a lot of really cool up and coming acts all different genres of music. So, and it's always, it's been during my, my kids spring break, which is actually a busy time for me surgically. So, we have been going at it, you know, doing a trip with them for like president's day weekend. I've been staying in town for spring break and working just because people want to have surgery there in that week. And then enjoying the South by Southwest in the evening. So, that's been really fun. So, great. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it's so, nice talking with you on your journey from fellow to partner. I wish you all the luck in the world. I'm sure I'll be watching your career as you move up the ranks from fellow to partner, and how could they get ahold of you if they wanted to get, get in touch? Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, just reaching out to the practice my practice email. I'm just drsmith@buckinghamcenter.com. drsmith@buckinghamcenter.Com. Or if you call the practice and you can always reach me that way as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Terrific. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us on this episode of going from fellow to partner. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Smith, you can reach out to her website at, BuckinghamFacialPlastics.com/Dr-Erin-Smith. A big thanks to Dr. Smith for sharing her journey on going from fellow to partner. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Fellow to Partner — with Dr. Erin Smith".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #fellowtopartner #plasticsurgeryfellow #plasticsurgerypartner #drerinsmith #drerinsmithaustin | |||
| Why the Next 12 Months Will be Harder for Cosmetic Lead Gen — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 324) | 22 Aug 2025 | 00:26:06 | |
📅 Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Next week, I'll show how these strategies fit into a bigger retention and referral system.Then, it runs quietly in the background for you. So, get private early access: [Last Chance to Join the VIP Waitlist + Get the 5 Fixes Checklist] Why the Next 12 Months Will be Harder for Cosmetic Lead Gen — with Catherine Maley, MBA Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits. Why the Next 12 Months Will be Harder for Cosmetic Lead GenIn summary, this new episode of the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast explains why cosmetic practice lead gen will get harder over the next 12 months. Additionally, it is becoming more expensive. Here are two major reasons you should act now: AI leveled the playing field Consequently, the speed and volume of their content floods the market. Organic reach is dropping fast Likewise, Google search also pushes ads, maps and "People Also Ask" above organic results. Ultimately, chasing new leads will always matter. Finally, only one practice per market gets access to the solution I'll share. [Join the Waitlist + Get the 5 Fixes Checklist] Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA Practice Growth Resources:
⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#themactalks #multispecialtyaestheticconference #kissloyaltyclub #cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons | |||
| Interview with AACS President — Dr. Alexander W. Sobel (Ep. 215) | 20 Jul 2023 | 00:55:45 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and my interview with AACS President — Alexander W. Sobel, DO. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Interview with AACS President — Dr. Alexander W. Sobel". Dr. Sobel (AACS President) is a cosmetic & reconstructive surgeon for the face and body in private practice in Bellevue, WA. Dr. Sobel (AACS President) has lectured and published research in The American Journal of Cosmetic Surgery and is a fellowship director training new up-and-coming surgeons. He's also the past president of the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery and current President of The American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery (AACS). We talked about his journey from joining a practice to solo practice, building out a new space with (2) ORs, as well as goals he wants to achieve during his AACS Presidency. Dr. Sobel's email: drsobel@andersonsobelcosmetic.com AACS website: https://www.cosmeticsurgery.org/ AACS LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-academy-of-cosmetic-surgery/ Visit Dr. Sobel's websiteP.S. If you missed this earlier this week, please check out my video on "Cash-Paying Patients on Autopilot" and Shift to Cosmetic Patients on Demand.
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: 📕 Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice — What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Interview with AACS President — Dr. Alexander W. SobelCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and the AACS President — Alexander Sobel, DO. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, I'm very excited about today's guest. It's Dr. Alexander Sobel (AACS President). He's a cosmetic and reconstructive surgeon for the face and body. He's been in practice for 15 years located in Bellevue, Washington. Now, Dr. Sobel (AACS President) has lectured and published research in the American Journal of Cosmetic Surgery. Now, he's also very involved in medical associations. He's actually the past president of the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery, and he's the current president of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery (AACS). So, we're going to talk more about that as well. So, Dr. Sobel, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, hello indeed to all, and thank you so, much, Catherine. It's an honor to be with you today and with our collective audience. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, thanks so, much. So, Dr. Sobel, what specialty did you start with? And then how did you transition or add more procedures to it? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, I started with, I don't know what I'm going to do with my life, but I think I want to be a surgeon mostly because the surgery department, you know, well, they were nice to me. So, I found my way into otolaryngology head and neck surgery without a real clear career path. However, very shortly in, I had a mentor, or a resident a couple of years ahead of me. Who was aware of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery training programs, very interested in facelifting surgery and pursued a fellowship in cosmetic surgery. So, I followed behind him to another fellowship program. But I wanted something, something more than auto HNS. Auto HNS is a great specialty. It's a specialty, a collection of specialties. However, once you looked under the hood of What cosmetic surgery is really about it can become infatuated and thralling and all time and mind occupying in the in the best possible ways. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you eventually expect to go into private practice? Like, did you decide, wait a second, I'm not going to work in a hospital, or did you work in a hospital and then journey to? What was your journey to get into solo? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, I had to grow up, right? So, so, so, I was doing my, my residency and then I had a path into fellowship, which seemed like a good idea because, well, I was very interested in cosmetic procedures, but Knowing that I was going to get in my, a plaque in my wall that said otolaryngology head and neck surgery, facial plastic surgery. I really didn't know how to do a facelift or rhinoplasty. I'd done a few and I had some exposure to it. So, a fellowship seemed like a really good idea. Now, fellowships, well, since Medicare doesn't pay for cosmetic surgery, it's really hard to get training in anything cosmetic. In the hospital environment. So, you have to fellowship where that where those procedures are actually happening in the environment of care of a private office. So, having done one of those fellowships and, you know, doing my career planning along the way, thinking to myself, well, if I want to be a cosmetic surgeon, I'm going to have to learn how to run a business. Because you can't do it. Well, I don't want to say you can't. Some do and some do it really well out of a hospital, but that is certainly not the easiest way forward in most states. Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you recommend a fellowship for everybody who I just wonder what do people do nowadays when they've had the training but zero business and marketing training? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Is the fellowship the way to go or you just try to read every book you can or go get an MBA, which is what I did, but I don't think a surgeon needs an MBA. I think you need an MBA in your plastic surgery practice like specific to you to shortcut it because you don't have. Three to five years to go find another degree. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: No. And even if you have the three to five years, because we have members in the academy who are MBAs and they're super great about business, what makes them super great is they know how to find the right people. And to communicate with them, give them what they need, respond to what they ask for, and then get out of their way and let them make good decisions, help the surgeon learn to make good decisions. That's an invaluable part of a fellowship program because you see that happening real time. Most fellowship programs are, well, they're successful because they're required to have a large case volume to be able to even accept fellows. Okay. So, that means they must have figured something out. And usually, they figured out how to surround themselves with good people. And that's a really important skill for any cosmetic surgeon or anyone who wants to run their own business for that matter. Catherine Maley, MBA: We've talked a lot about that on the podcast where when you're training to be a surgeon, you're following the rules. There's not a lot of room to be creative there. You've got to get these procedures down. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? But then when you get in solo practice, Now you do need to be entrepreneurial. Now you do need to open your mind and say, I'm not going to do what everybody else is doing. That is such a mind shift change. Do you feel that like when training versus real life, how different are the two? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: I did, and I no longer feel that way and I'll tell you what I learned. Okay. What I started with was, well, all right. It's a choose your own venture. Yes. Be entrepreneurial. Think big. What's your plan? How are you going to figure it out? Let's try to write a budget. And then you, then I realized, well, I don't know how to do any of those things. I can make a lot of guesses, but if, if your early, your early axioms, the sort of the, the, the ground level guesses are wrong, then everything else you can be super clever about. Ends up wrong really fast. Well, as it turns out, business is business. And if you go read some books and even if it's not the perfect book and it, it doesn't apply directly, and you just want to read cosmetic surgery books about how to succeed in cosmetic surgery, it actually doesn't work, we're, we're no different. I think in the industry. As really anyone else. So, what do we need? We need good information from tested techniques to learn how to evaluate. Options and opportunities so, that we're not just guessing and believe. Well, you know this, Catherine, I mean, you come out of residency or fellowship or whatever your path is, and everyone wants to help. Bless them. And they really do. I mean, some of them have the secondary intent of they've got to make a dollar, but most people want to see you do well. And whether they're pulling things out of the hat, like I'll have an event, do it, this, do it, you need to do this. And then everything will glitter and sparkle. But, you know, ultimately, it's not their business. You know, their business is health. That's, that hangs in the balance. So, when I realized the combination of, well, I don't need to agree with every outside influence that has a suggestion for me, and I can stop saying, well, my practice is different because it's cosmetic surgery or my business is different because it's medicine or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. And just start reading and start listening. Decision making got a lot easier. Catherine Maley, MBA: There is such a balance there because you do want to learn to see what else is going on out there. And you want to stay up to date with what's happening with marketing and business strategies. But you're absolutely right. A business is a business. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? I like to add a lot of spin to it for our industry, but it's still just business. You're still attracting customers. You're converting them to paid clients, you're hopefully retaining them, so, it all I mean what might get a little different is the legal, you know, I would specialize in that for sure. So, back to here you are, you've got your fellowships, and now it's time to go into practice. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Did you hook up with somebody else first, which I believe you did, is that right? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah, absolutely. Catherine Maley, MBA: And how did you make that decision? Like any, any tips on how do you join a practice that, was it thriving? Did he have a good name? All of that. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: No, I made, I'm now having the rear-view benefit of training or having many fellows training with me, which is such a blessing and watching their path and their transition. A lot of them and I included made a transition out of convenience. So, what is more convenient than joining one of your fellowship faculty? You know them, you've been around them you know, the environment of care, you know, all the people involved, you know, the neighborhood. So, it wasn't an immediate obvious thing to do because, you know, that practice probably, well, it didn't have room for two surgeons. There wasn't, there wasn't enough commerce going on. So, that put a lot of pressure on the situation. Eventually it didn't work out because there wasn't enough. There wasn't enough commerce. But nowadays I think there are a lot I don't want to upset anybody as I do believe it's hard to transition to practice now. And we really want people to succeed in doing that right. But there are more opportunities. Corporate practice in medicine has gotten a lot more organized and a lot more pro patient, pro patient safety. And I think there's, there's, there is room for, for young surgeons to find themselves working under big organizations while they develop their own voice and decide, well, do I want to be an employee of someone else? Or do I want to have my own practice? What do I want my next 10 years to look like? While I can make a living and, you know, make those decisions not out of convenience or out of fear or out of, I don't know what I'm going to do next, but you know, take some time and talk to good people who can help them make those decisions in an informed way. Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what else I'm learning as I get older, a lot of times it's just making the decision and then making it right. It's not making the right decision. It's making the decision right. But you need to make some pretty good educated guesses. So, I would completely agree. Talk to everybody. I would go visit some practices, those who took over somebody else's, those who started their own. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? There's no need to keep making the same mistakes everybody else has made, but the issue is you have your own mindset and your own vision and you're trying to, that's why I think it's so, difficult for doctors to join each other. Like when you joined that other doctor, did you have the same values and vision for the practice? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? And if not, how quickly did that become apparent? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Oh. Well, no. I didn't know how to look for it. I didn't know how to articulate it for myself and for all those listening you know, take away nothing else from the mistakes that I've made is, is learn your value proposition, not just for your business, but what do you as. Jane Doe, Joe Doe, whoever you are, what, what is your value proposition to your patients and be able to distill that into about two words. It's helped me organize myself, but even when days are hard, days are easy, but also would have helped that compatibility test. You know, I probably would have still made the same dumb decision, but I would have, you know, gotten to the punchline faster, right? Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how did you disengage from that scenario? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Oh. Well, just having not enough money into the practice kind of made it want to fall apart. And in the meantime, a colleague who was near retirement at the time I, I joined the, the, my first adventure he was close to retirement and in a position where he felt a little bit more pressure to sell his practice, which worked out well for me in the end. I think I got a very fair deal. He did too. And then we were off to the races. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's a really good avenue. I think if you know that somebody is going to retire, what I love about that is he's much more open to negotiating when he has some why behind why he wants to wrap it up. It's when there's no reason to like there's not no pressure for him to do it on the negotiations go can go on and on, but did he stay put for a while how did you to transition from him to you. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? And you think it's a good decision. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, the intent was he would stay put for a while. But at that point you know, very talented surgeon in his 70s was looking forward to retirement and. The long process he took to sell and transition his practice took a toll on his staff and his employees. And when I joined, there was a lot of friction, not between myself and the employees, but the retiring surgeon. And it We had made the arrangement that he would, he would help the business continue as a going concern. Right. And then and be available at my need or pleasure. And we decided mutually though. I love the guy. And I still see him periodically. Now over 10 years later that it wasn't the best interest of the practice for him to be around. So, what should have been a year. Lasted about six weeks, maybe. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay. That's great. At least you figured that out early on. Would you say that's still a viable option in today's world is for a new guy, a new, a new fellow coming out of I'm just wondering what are the fellows going to do now? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? How do you enter the marketplace in today's world with today's environment? Do you have any tips for how to do that? Is it still viable though to buy somebody else's practice or should you just go it alone and get out your own loan and give it a shot? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: I think have your foot. I mean, just if you can turn into an octopus and put a foot in every door so, that you're not making decisions out of, you know, having to, you're making want to decisions, which will you always empowers the decision maker. So, if you're If you start conversations early, especially in the academy, well, you know, who's doing what and what practice, who might be looking for an associate, a partner who might be looking to leave because you never know when those conversations are going to come back in your benefit, just like it happened with me. Talk to corporate practice of medicine and find out what they're about. Find out if there's any compatibility. Don't give up your primary specialty too early necessarily because you may really feel painted in the corner, you know, as I did it, you know, everything turned out great, but isn't it nice to make decisions and sleep at night too. So, when you the, there are many options, but having some money flowing and. Doing cosmetic surgery, doing cosmetic procedures, being in the industry you love and not just waiting for it to happen from your primary specialty, walking that tightrope. Well, I think it's a little bit narrower nowadays, I think is the way to do it. Tons of options out there. A lot of a lot of people come to me, ask, well, well, yeah, how do you do that? The bank doesn't want to lend me money. Well, you can't just talk to one bank and banks have different appetites for different kinds of lending at different times. And they might call, you know Bank A might call it like a health care provider loan, but that has nothing to do with somebody who doesn't have an accounts receivable. If you don't take insurance, you don't qualify for that loan. And now you get discouraged. Well, don't because another bank may have another program, but you, it's tough. It takes a lot of time. And you got to talk to the bank salespeople and eventually the underwriters find out what's an option. If that doesn't work, if the If the current owner, soon to be retiree is erudite about the situation at all, they don't necessarily want a big payout all at once either. I mean, there is a tax advantage that they get paid over time, or maybe they, they, they hold the note. That could be an advantage. And it's a great advantage for the new surgeon because now the old surgeon Or retiring because they could be young has some skin in the game. They need this arrangement to work. So, the loan doesn't get defaulted on. And I love those arrangements because signing a contract, you know, goodwill. What is it worth? It's worth as much as the lady or the gentleman retiring is going to put into it. And our new grads people who are entering the cosmetic arena, they need more than that. Because we want them to succeed what are you buying in today's world? Then if it's not necessarily goodwill, then what are you buying? Because I don't know if the staff's going to stay, like, are you trying to buy their staff, their long, their long-term lease? What, what is the value to a to a fellow, you know, who wants to buy a practice? I think there's perceived value and actual value. Actual value, I think, unfortunately, is relatively low because the assets of the practice, especially in a cosmetic practice. Yeah. You've got some fixed things, some lasers that are depreciating. And honestly, they may or not, may or may not fire the day after whoever's retiring leave. So, you can't. Count on them. The staff could end up being a liability, though they might seem like an asset on a profit and loss statement. So, however, I think all of us have limits as to how many decisions we can make in a day. And if we can reduce the number, By having who we think are good staff that have their policies and procedures that we may very well as, as the new person coming on board and starting our career, we may completely redefine them in a year around our value proposition and our values. They become our policies and procedures and the staff. Either needs to be led into alignment with good leadership, or you have to find new staff. Having that honeymoon period of, of parachuting into a situation that's stable, that's generating revenue, I think that has value, even though you may get rid of it in the short term. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Let's just talk about staff for a second. There have been challenges all over the nation. You know, post COVID. Are you experiencing that yourself? And if so, any tips for not just hiring staff, but finding them, hiring them and motivating them to stay put and do a good job? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah. Gosh. Tips. We'll start with those. We're, we're all in this together. Talk to good people. I mean, I've really enjoyed the conversations I've, I've had with you, Catherine. I mean, we went from a you know, two years ago, a very challenging supply chain. Type scenario. And I remember talking to my staff. Well, these are the challenges with supply chain and how we're going to navigate it. And we did really well. And that really helped us. And now I find myself because I can't always have the conversation with my staff navigating staff challenges. The, the workforce is completely different. We all know it. It's just. Easier to say, okay, we get that. We don't get it. We're going to try to roll with it, try to figure it out as best we can. But as I, as I go, as I crawl and I'll be totally honest, I am crawling through the HR quagmire. Not that I'm bad people, but I have personally, perhaps old leadership styles that are not necessarily useful or germane to the work workplace as it is now. And so, I guess I would ask collectively that we all work together and help, help each other find new best practices in hiring and firing understanding when resumes, an abundance of resumes come in and the, the time in a position is going from three years to three months to three weeks. And that's becoming a new norm. What are the things can we do to help identify great talent, and then once we bring them on board to nurture them to develop them so, that they help develop us. Catherine Maley, MBA: A couple tips I have, is to put a lot more protocol into interviewing than ever before because it is become a very much a numbers game and you're trying to figure out their own values and do they have anything to do with your values and you're looking for longer term. So, I wouldn't have everybody and their brother interviewing. I would set up a process where I make them do things throughout this interview process. Number one, just to see if they can follow directions, if they can show up on time, if they're articulate and they can think on their feet. And I would just have, like, I would have them email you, I would have them FaceTime you text you just do a lot more up front before you have them come in your office. Because if they can't get through that part, you know, they're not going to get through the job itself. So, and then once you bring them on board, here's my new thought, process the heck out of your practice. And I talk about this a lot in my trainings and my consulting. If you can set up a process, And you do it right, somebody could walk away from your position back position, and somebody else could walk right in because you have such good processes set up, and now they don't have to learn that part, they just have to learn the nuances of your particular personality or your practice but. The protocols are set just like in surgery. You know, I would treat it just like in surgery. If you can get that tightened up, then it doesn't matter so, much if they only stay for six months, at least the learning curve is not so, difficult. So, anyway, that's my two cents. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, important to sense because that's, that's your armor. And all of this that, you know, if you are, you have a staff of so, many and you have to contract for whatever reason, the policies and the processes don't change, the people can change and they can change their spots on the bus. Of course, we know how valuable that is. If I may, Catherine, I want to ask you a question because you reminded me of this one. So, Two different modes of thinking in in hiring for cosmetic practices that I've heard along the years. There's one that I favor, but I could be wrong about it. And the one that I favor is higher to your culture, and that is just generally get people around you that are, you know, in some way, you know, feel familiar. And, and, and work the team around that familiar form of culture. Another form of thinking that I've seen deployed very, very well is well develop your office culture really, really strong and hire people who are a little bit incongruous knowing that. deploying people with, with a different type of culture, different type of energy can be very synergistic and especially on the patient side, helps patients identify someone in the office that they feel most naturally responsive to any advice about those two very disparate schools of thinking and hiring. Catherine Maley, MBA: First, I would go with the values that you really need in your practice. So, for example, do they need to be honest? See, I always do this exercise, like, what do you really value? Not the nitty gritty, the characteristics. So, you, like, value, patient centric, dependable, team player. Team player is where you, where that, what your scenario, that's where we get muddled up. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Because, sometimes. They become rogue and they're going to do it their way and their way or the highway. Instead, I would just make sure at the beginning the characteristics never change. They were a people person when they came on board or a team player and they're still a team player. You know, like they can be creative but they really are there for the good of the practice. If you can get those kind of fundamental values of honesty, reliability, They always do their best. I love those, I mean, God, if we could only have all of those. That, those kind of people are still nimble enough to add a little of their flair, but for the good of the practice, not for the good of themselves. You know, so, that's what I would do to get really clear about the characteristic values that you need them to be as a person. And then they can have a little leeway after they show some skills. Because quite frankly, There are so, many. I have been so, shocked in certain practices where they hire this little silly girl. I'm just saying, and she ends up being the rock star. It's just she has that in her to do her best. Be everything she can be open to learning and growing, and she was like an au pair when they hired her and now, she's the office manager. So, those are just. That's where you're trying to stay open minded, but please like make sure they have the right stuff just to begin with, you know? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: That's tremendous wisdom, Catherine. As we sift through resumes and well, it's natural is to look for education training experience. But if you are looking, your mind is open for the au pair destined to be the business manager, then there's a lot more opportunity. All the way around. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I mean, you'll take an inexperienced, open minded, growth, growth focused person any day over. The know it all who is completely closed. She knows what's going on. That's not how we used to at our practice where I was like, you don't need to hear that all day So, and just so, you know, there's nothing easy about HR in today's world. I have wow I just I personally, used to do a lot of hiring and now, I'm just so wary of it because it's very time consuming and you just don't know what you're getting and I just find it so, fascinating that a whole Psychology has shifted with so, many people. It's just been so, interesting to watch. My goodness. Okay. So, onto something more positive, which is, which is you just moved into a brand-new office with a new OR. So, please tell us what that was like. And especially the permits and the processes and anything, any mistakes you made that you wish you had avoided. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: I'd love to another decision made out of need. So, I was going really well at my past location though. The building was aging. We were, we were doing really well. We were doing a lot of surgery and it was an efficient space. I mean, we're honestly, we're killing it over there. However, the owners of the building. Well, I learned that owners aren't necessarily predictable. They don't read business books themselves. And in, in these owners, [they] certainly had whatever their motivations were or according to the property manager, maybe no motivations at all, sort of didn't want to renew my lease, or they were willing to for about two to three years. That does us no good. I, and anybody listening out in the audience, you know, if you're thinking about having a cosmetic surgery center or an OR, an OR, it's about a two-to-three-year project. So, a two to three year, at least that's just a Band-Aid. And it gives us no comfort. So, and I tried everything I tried buying the building. I got some good brokers and they gave me good advice. And eventually they're like, wow, these people just don't want to make a deal. You got to find another place. Well, mercifully, I had been looking for a long time. I had my current lease 10 years, but options along the way, take an opportunity. Please. Every time you have a lease option, at least 3 years in advance, look at spaces. Is even if you're not going to move. It's great to learn what's available and what zip codes what you might want so, that you don't have to figure out everything all at once. If a doomsday situation like mine happened. I don't mean to be glum, but it was all fine. But at the time, it was very nerve wracking. So, I saw a bunch of spaces. I looked at virtually so, Or at least the floor plan. About a hundred. Okay. I'm just going to call out numbers to see if they're valued to anybody. Okay. So, I looked at about a hundred. I physically visited about 30. And I, and I visited some that I didn't even think were workable. You, you, you know, just to get a sense of what could happen. And here in the Seattle Bellevue area, everything, the architecture is so, interesting and unique, but that doesn't serve itself well to surgery centers that do really well. If they're a square. Okay, we talk about why then, but he's interested, but, but squares are great and Bellevue doesn't have any squares. So, we had to find a place that was sort of a square and wasn't just a mini walk-up building. Many walk-up buildings were great because you have access to the roof. You can put in a generator, all the things you need for life safety. It can reduce your costs hugely and the fire safety code. I mean, we're talking big dollars. If you can just have you. The site environmental characteristics that are correct for fire and life safety that reduces your cost a lot, but you don't want to be in a tiny building, especially if you're trying to be somewhere downtown that doesn't really work so. Having time to look around, finding a spot with ideal characteristics that happens to be like a box, you get somewhere close, and then you find a really good architect who's not just skilled in healthcare, but understands about cosmetic surgery, and how to help you know, one of the things I've loved that you've taught me, Catherine, and, and I've, well, No problem Is the is the process of inevitability. Okay, if we're the right practice, it's the right procedure, the right patient. Everything's a match. The Venn diagram lines up together. Then why not? Why not do a procedure? The architecture should support that. And I don't mean in a High impact. Wow. Isn't this a glamorous storefront, but how does the architecture lead the patient through the consult experience onto the procedure and for return visits for high quality of care and eventually become advocates of the practice? Well, good architect will help you do that. And you fact check everything that they're doing with a good accreditation consultant. So, you make sure you don't have any whoops on the backend when department of health or whatever accrediting body. And I Do recommend you have an accrediting body, even if your state doesn't require one. So, make sure that gets fact checked by not just your accrediting consultant, but also your business consultants, your sales consultants. So, it all. It all looks and feels right and matches your policies and procedures, and if you need to adapt them, the time to do that is during the architectural process to make sure everything matches up. Of course, there are a few things that I wish are a little bit different about the space that we built, but you know, every day I get to come to the office and enjoy how the policies, procedures, protocols played out in a very workable. space that supports me, the staff, the patients, it all works awesome. Now, who is working against you? Everybody I, I thought was going to be working against me, mostly you know, supply chain turns out, well, yeah, they're a problem, but if you get a good architect, good contractor, They'll figure it out. You're not going to buy a new generator. You're going to get on the list for refurbished generator. They're going to help you navigate that. Having good people and having them advising you and listen to them and making sure that you've got a few years to figure it out makes all that happen. Where I got completely blown off course. And both cost and timing was not actually Department of Health regulation, but that was challenging to talk about that in a second, but was with local municipal permitting and honestly misunderstandings between the permit team, the expedited permit people our contract, everybody. Gosh, weeks and months would go by and finally, what it took was me getting on a phone call to explain it to the municipal perimeter what we were trying to do about life safety, and then they got it, and I didn't realize how well. People in local government respond better to the surgeon or the person with the vested interest than the people working on their behalf. So, I recommend you get on those calls. I wish I hadn't made that mistake. Get on the permanent calls. You're not going to screw anything up. I thought like, well, they don't want me there. Get on there. Listen. Eventually become an active participant, you will move your project along faster. Same thing with Department of Health, you know, in the postmortem of gosh, what took so, long, not just my disinvolvement, because I didn't know I was supposed to be involved. Well, I should have known better. And also, the fact that they are having some of the work. Workforce. Turbulence that we're having in the industry. So, with Department of Health, my project started with the same permitting gentleman from 10 years ago, my, for my last project. Well, within a week, he was gone. I had five new permitters. During a year long process in the in the playbook changed subtly each time, and that was very jarring and very expensive with municipal government. They were very short staffed, had junior surveyors, and they were transitioning from a virtual to hybrid environment. And they were having trouble keeping track of their files. So, a lot of the logistics were, well, did you receive what, what we sent you? Okay, good. You received it. But in two weeks, if they say they don't have something, but they said they received it, it's still you, the surgeon's problem, not their problem. And you really can't point out to them that they lost it. You just need to stay with them and make sure that they have everything they need to give you a yes. No, that's long, wouldn't it? Forgive me. I've been living this for a few years, but I think that sharing some of those challenges will be helpful to others. Catherine Maley, MBA: Actually, I think that's a really big tip that you got involved. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? You literally made some phone calls usually because everyone runs into the permit problem. And usually it's because the, there's a lot of politics involved or something, and somebody doesn't know somebody that they need to know to get it done. You know, it's like becomes this game of who do you know, who can. Push this through on. But in your case, you pushed it through yourself. That's really interesting. I haven't heard that before. So, give that a shot. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah, give everything a shot. And in now that we're permitted, we've been in the space for seven months doing great colleagues and competition have come out and asked me for help. First, they share anything and anybody wants to ask me anything. I'll have happy to share, share my advice. But I've, I've watched them have to endure the playbook continuing to change. And so, unfortunately, you know, maybe, maybe my play for the, the, the get on the, the permitting phone calls. Well, I don't think that's ever going to be bad wisdom. But the, but the playbook changes and keep an open mind. And if you hear no take, it seriously. And then try to figure out why and try to figure out if you can get a different answer. I mean, it's not just talking to one department trying to play you know, let's make a deal. But oftentimes the nose is in an interpretation of code and policy. And if you work hard at it, you can get there. And I hear, I hear all the time. Well, my architect says we can't do that. Well, we just did that. So, again, we're good at what we do as surgeons. That's, that's our job, but understand that there might be a surgeon you're more comfortable going to for rhinoplasty and the surgeon you're more comfortable for breast lift. Well, keep that in mind when you're talking to architects, perimeters, surveyors, and contractors and everybody else. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the tricky part for all of you is you have a thriving practice that has to transition overnight and half the time your lease has run out. Now you're now you're homeless, you know, because your place isn't ready. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? How, how over budget was it or how over extended did the time go from the time you thought it was going to be ready to the time it was, was that an issue. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: It was a huge issue. We were supposed to be done in May of 2022, and that was with a conservative timeline, and we moved in in a hurry because we're in holdover on our prior lease in December of 2022. And I can't thank the Washington Department of Health enough. They, they understood our situation. They worked very, very hard to the extremes of their ability. to help us continue our patient care. Can't always count on that, but, but they really came through for us. Now, budget, I had learned something about that. The first time I had remodeled an OR you know, multiply the number times three and you'll get bids all over the place. And even if you, you get a hard bid. And we want it to cost a certain amount of money. I think all of us as surgeons have it, well, even consumers. I mean, we talk to patients about how much we feel an abdominal plastic should cost. How do they feel about it? We have a set value. And things can feel, you know, traumatizing if you get out of that scope of value. However, Even in an expensive build out and ours was pretty pricey. It was about 500 per square foot. It could be different you know, for everybody. So, it'd be alarmed by those numbers, but initial bids, I got a very reckless bid at about 125 per square foot. So, good to be true. Of course, it is right. And everywhere in between, you know, what's, what is missing, what am I missing? And then understanding that they're unanticipated things. All it takes is an inspector to say, you know, Hey, I don't like something about life safety. And that could be 100, 000 expense that you're not prepared for. So, how do you prepare for it? Ideally have money in your general operating. Revenue account the, the ideal time to do this, and you don't always get to do it when it's ideal, but when you have significant net profit, okay, because that'll help you not do things out of fear or financial concern, but write it into your budget and figure it out, even if you're going to write yourself your own note over, over three years, five years, 10 years, figure out what that is. And make that give that number a lot of headroom, maybe a two and a half to three times multiplier and Go to the bank too. I did that accidentally, honestly, on a whim, just to, you know, who, who knows what's going to happen. I mean, what happened? I I'm a solo practice. I do all my injections. I do just about everything myself. And love doing it that way. But what happens to me, I have a disability insurance, but we need to have some money in the bank for a knee outage. So, I, I got a commitment for a loan from the bank that actually really didn't take at the end of the day. And I leveraged an SBA loan from during COVID. That's really low interest rates. You, you get with your financial advisors and think creatively about how to how to level this playing field. So, that you can handle what the inspectors or what might come up during the course of events and. Very, very importantly, talk to your tax people about it. I worked under the assumption that these sort of these sort of things can be written off against income immediately, and that's not true at all. The standard appreciation is almost 40 years. So, your tax consultant will not only warn you about that. But teach you about a very handy instrument called accelerated depreciation, where other consultants can help you. I got to pay him a little bit, but you can accelerate your depreciation and have it now so, you can make sure that your cash balance balances at the end of the year and that you have a favorable, favorable outcome with regards to taxes. Catherine Maley, MBA: That was a really good tip. Accelerated depreciation. Huge! Oh my gosh, I would have died without that one. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Did you grow this did you build this new practice for growth? Like, are there any plans to expand, like add a med spa, or add nurse injectors, or add associates, or make some of the fellows, partners? What is your plan for growth? Or is there one? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, no I, I already explained how poor of a visionary I am sometimes, but I'm having a lot of fun. Okay. And so, we, when I had in mind doing this, well, how do I reproduce as much fun as possible? Because it is fun and I want to keep doing that. So, I, I made more exam rooms so, that I can do what I do with a few more patients at once. And if I find someone else like minded, well, they can do it alongside me. Got a great PR team and they tell me that, that we have inquiry volume for, for other surgeons. So. If and several. So, if the right fit comes along, especially one that's interested in injecting and taking care of skin and doing everything I do. Well, we have six identically appointed exam console treatment injection rooms. They're all ready to go in their mirror images. In terms of the OR facility. Yeah, we bought, we built two beautiful ORs. I don't go back and forth but the OR, the second OR is there that, you know, honestly, five surgeons at maximum capacity could be using this center all at once. We even have a smaller procedure room. It's all designed for that growth. If that's the trajectory that we end up going in. Yes, if we if we, if we did want to have other injectors there's room for that too, more estheticians, more really anything. But what I love most about it is it suits itself better for teaching. Than the prior facility. There's just more room, more room for observers and more room for people to come to conferences here again, all in the service of fun. So, hopefully you know, we do find some people that that want to be want to be part of this this this great project. But if we don't, we're going pretty good with just me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. You've been so, active in medical organizations and I wanted to talk about that because I believe you have been very involved in three, especially your new appointment this year. Can you talk about that and, and what you learned from being so, involved in various groups? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, gosh, I continue to learn everything from being involved in groups and especially about business. I mean, gosh stewardship of 501c3s, 501c6s where the profit margins are, there are no profit margins. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's running the organization or helping the organization run. And so, it can keep doing the great work that it does while cultivating institutional knowledge. There are policies and procedures that you can develop, learn so, much about everything along the way and continue to do so. And it's such a great a great way to be part of something bigger. than your own practice island. You go out in cosmetic surgery. Many of us go out on our own. It's just us and our staff. And the staff have to be nice to me. I, well, I, some of them are nice to me, but isn't it nice that you can, you can interact with friends and colleagues over a shared common value, something that we enjoy so, much. But thinking back, I had no idea how to get involved. I didn't even know I wanted to be involved. I mean, who knew It would apply to me, but you, you great people like you Dr. Mike, well, for example, and Dr. Faisal Qureshi and people very early on, right after I took my board exams, introduced themselves as I came to later learn the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery really is just about people really wanting to get to know you because they're good people. They want to get better themselves. And they're honestly curious about. Everybody so, that that we all can get better together. So, these really neat people reach out to me. You end up joining committees, the committees. If you do good work with the committees. People asked you to do more and more things and so, privileged you know, to, you know, I think, yeah. So, it was president of the American board of cosmetic surgery, which I loved. I love that organization for the most meaningful time. There was, was being part of the oral exam committee and then being the chair of that committee on the responsibility of delivering. high quality psychometrically evaluated exam that would help judge the, the, the, the safety of future cosmetic surgeons. Wow, did I learn a lot. I, I joined the Washington osteopathic medical board, which I've now served on for 10 years, because I thought it was important for, for a cosmetic surgeon to know what's going on in the neighborhood. And yet I learned so, much about discipline of physicians and surgeons, but what, what the, what the role is in terms of. Protecting the public and stewardship of that, that an individual physician can have. So, every experience I've had has been a segue into a, a new opportunity of learning, and I appreciate all those organizations for, for tolerating me, and I hope they continue to tolerate me to some extent for the future. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and your future is here right now because you're the president of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery. So, what are your plans for this year? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: During our plans, always cultivating institutional knowledge. And at the very forefront of that is advocacy. Speaking to the public, speaking with legislators, speaking with other surgeons. We take it for granted in our individual practices that, wow, we've got a great practice of cosmetic surgery. Thank you. Everybody deserves the right to safe and effective evidence-based practice of surgery medicine, whatever that they are, whatever they have specialized in, and the patients deserve it. So, if we have a mismatch of what patients need and desire, which is highly educated, skilled, trained cosmetic surgeons. And a need that was identified way back in the 1970s that will shoot that isn't getting trained as part of the typical residency environment. We got an organization that that coalesced to get that right. And we're still getting it right. Not because we've been getting it wrong, but year after year. graduating fellow class after class every academy meeting, we're all collectively smarter and stronger and making sure that the public is availed of, of, of the knowledge of, of, of, of what, what the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery is doing for them directly as well as through the teaching and curation of high-quality surgeons, is, is our absolute top priority this year. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I urge other cosmetic surgeons to join your group. I've been speaking for your group for years and it has grown so, much and especially the practice management. When a long time ago, when I got started, nobody was ever in the practice management. Like I'd be talking to, you know, three people because the surgeons always wanted to be. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Where the surgery was going on and now, they realize I see the business and marketing side of surgery is pretty important, too So, that room is now exploded so, I urge anybody to join the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgeons and you've got to meet Dr. Sobel and the team it's a really nice group. They have beautiful. You can feel it at your meetings Like our last meeting was what we're San Diego or Vegas? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: San Diego. Catherine Maley, MBA: San Diego. Yeah. And it was just so, everyone's, there's so, much camaraderie there. It was, it's just a pleasure. Nice group. So, Dr. Sobel, to wrap this up, I have to ask one more question. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Tell us something that we don't know about you. Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Oh shoot. Well, I have a degree in music. I started out early on as a as a lover of music and someone who aspired to perhaps be a high school music teacher and studied jazz performance in classical musicology. And in, as part of the new office, we spent some money on speakers and a lot of time on the on the musical environment for the benefit of the patients and staff. And I myself and many times people ask me, well, what does music have to do with medicine? What does it have to do with business? And you can make a joke. Well, yeah, medicine. Well, I'm business and music. Well, there's, there's, there's some starving to be had. But you alluded to this earlier about well you know, having structure, having guidelines, and if you don't have structure and guidelines, it's really, really hard to do great work. And what I learned from music theory is, well, if you want to write a symphony, it's just a collection of structure and outline like any other great work. And once you learn those little parts of the outline. It's not so, hard. It would take me forever and what came out wouldn't be so, good, but I know where to start. And for me, my relationship with cosmetic surgery and the business practice thereof is very much like that symphonic thinking. This is a big thing that I am not trained in, but I know there's a way to parse it up, find good people to help, and then enjoy the hell out of it. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's terrific. Just are you a singer or do you, are you a producer, a director? Do you play an instrument? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah, I study a saxophone, saxophone. I nearly failed my vocal proficiency. My piano proficiency exams were terrible and conducting wasn't, wasn't it wasn't much more than embarrassing. But saxophone was my instrument. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, maybe we can get you to do something at the next conference coming up. Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Let's see. Oh gosh, indeed. I can feel the blush come already. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, you and Bill Clinton, he pulled out his saxophone, didn't he? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: He did and I, I'm sure there's a backstory in how much it took him to get to that moment, but I applaud him for doing so. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you play at least as well as he, or much better? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: It's been a long time since I've raised the horn, but yeah, I don't know. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll bet you could pull that off. All right. So, so, Dr. Sobel this is going to wrap it up for us. How can anybody get a hold of you that would be interested in talking with you about how to do a build out or the organization? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein? Alexander W. Sobel, DO: By any way that feels best to them from email, call in the office, smoke signal. My email address is really easy. D R S O B E L drsobel@andersonsobelcosmetic.com. Google my name, Alex Sobel. You'll find my website, anything. Yes, my office staff is pretty good at, at, at sometimes putting up a little bit of a brick wall, but what they, they do know is that how much I enjoy the Academy X members and, and people who want to figure stuff out. They get messages to me may have to be persistent, but I'm happy to help as best as I may. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, that's terrific. Thank you so, much. It has been a pleasure and I will see you at the next conference. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, thank you. So much. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and my interview with AACS President — Alexander W. Sobel, DO. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Sobel, you can reach out to his website at, www.AndersonSobelCosmetic.com. A big thanks to Dr. Sobel for participating in my interview with him as the AACS President. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Interview with AACS President — Dr. Alexander W. Sobel".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #aacsinterview #aacspresident #aacs #drsobel #dralexandersobel #alexandersobeldo | |||
| Solo Practice, No Debt. — with Philip Robb, Jr., MD (Ep. 214) | 15 Jul 2023 | 00:58:48 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to be in solo practice with no debt. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Solo Practice, No Debt — with Philip Robb, Jr., MD". People develop different money mindsets based on their upbringing, beliefs, attitudes and behavior. And there are many money mindsets to choose from: Scarcity, abundance, thrifty, growth, generosity, materialistic, and entrepreneurial mindsets. Knowing yours helps you make decisions that you are comfortable with and that align with your goals, values and aspirations for a healthy relationship with money. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Philip Robb, MD, a facial plastic surgeon in private practice for the past 7 years located in Alpharetta, GA where he was raised. Dr. Robb embraces the thrifty mindset which has paid off for him (pun intended). He sleeps better being debt free, so he stretched his resources and made prudent choices. That has allowed him to build out his own surgical center while doing surgery 5 days/week on his terms…No Debt! That didn't happen by luck. It was mindset. Visit Dr. Robb's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Solo Practice, No Debt. — with Philip Robb, Jr., MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how it's possible to be in solo practice with no debt. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's guest is Dr. Philip Robb, who's in solo practice with no debt. He's a cosmetic and reconstructive facial surgeon in private practice, for the past seven years, in Alpharetta, Georgia; where he was born and raised. Now, Dr. Robb is a second-generation facial plastic surgeon. He attended Medical College of Georgia, did a surgical residency at the University of Arkansas for medical sciences, and also did a fellowship with Dr. Achi Chen, one of the country's most well-known facial plastic surgeons. All before going into solo practice with no debt. Dr. Robb, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Thanks Catherine. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I wanted to talk to you for a while because you're one of the more up and coming. Lately, I've been talking to a lot of the guys who are kind of, you know, thinking about exiting, but not you. You're just, you're still fairly new at this. So, first of all, how did you end up in facial plastic surgery? I did read in something on your website that I thought was really interesting. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. So, my dad is an ear, nose and throat surgeon here in in Alpharetta, which is just a little bit, 20 minutes North or so, of Atlanta. And so, I, through medical school did, wanted to do anything except ENT. And but ultimately, I think, you know, the fields and the specialties have a way of kind of choosing you. And so, ENT was it for me. So, that was, I went into an ENT residency, did not plan on. doing facial plastic surgery at that point. And then it was my third year of ENT residency. I was on call and a patient came in with a bad trauma and I don't know how graphic or how detailed you want me to get. And so, anyway, my one of my best friends and I, along with one of the attendees kind of worked on her all night long and she was married about six weeks after that. This was a, this was an injury that completely. Would have could have completely marred and scarred her facial appearance and for life and but she healed great. And it was in the news. It was a really great story. But through that, I learned the positive and significant effects that. facial plastic surgery can have on people. And so, that really stuck with me and some of the things that she said to me throughout her recovery really stuck with me. And that's what kind of ignited that spark that you really are transforming lives. Catherine Maley, MBA: I know we talk about vanity a lot in this industry and of course it's vanity, but the way I look at it although the reconstructive is much different, but just the you want to look as good as you feel kind of thing. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? There, there's a lot to be said for that because I think of it as, come on, we, we wouldn't live in a house where the paint's falling, you know, peeling and everything's falling apart. We wouldn't drive a car like that. So, why would we live in a body like that? That's how I see it. And who better to do it than people who know what they're doing, you know? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? So, good work. Keep, keep it up. Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Thank you. Well, one of the things I always tell my patients, you know, this is after the surgery, but You know, people spend money on a lot of things, and a lot of these things are, you know, a car or a vacation or a watch or whatever that is for you. And, and those are all great things, but when you invest in yourself, you know, a new nose or a new neck and jawline, facial rejuvenation, these things go with you wherever you go. They go with every outfit, they travel well with you, and so, it's an investment that really, I feel like, has its returns. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's absolutely an investment. I hear here. I can vouch for that over and over and over. So, so, here you are, you're an ENT or you're, you're not wanting to be an ENT. How did you go from that into cosmetic? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Well, how did your father feel about that? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, yeah, good question. So, I so, decided I wanted to do facial plastic surgery and he, my dad was always kind of just like, you do whatever you want to do. He, he wasn't, he wasn't pushing me toward ENT or anything. So, went and did fellowship, which was a great experience and then came back home. And basically, I simultaneously started my facial plastic surgery practice, its own entity, its own thing. But then I did a little bit of ENT as well, kind of through his office and, and really how I. In a perfect world, I would have kind of kept doing that. I, there's some aspects I love about ENT and there's some aspects I, you know, love about facial plastic surgery. And so, I did that for a year or two, maybe, maybe two years or so. And then the, the, the facial plastic surgery practice just got to. Too busy. And I couldn't, I felt like I was living two lives, you know, with the ENT life and trying to keep those patients happy. And then the facial plastic surgery life and trying to keep those patients happy. And then the, my time in the operating room, I didn't have my own surgery center at that point. And so, you know, in the operating room, you only have a fixed amount of block time and then trying to get additional time is difficult. And so, I made the jump you know, shortly after doing some ENT to. Full facial plastic surgery. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, logistically you're working with your dad, what it sounds like maybe once a week, but then you had another office where you were doing facial cosmetic. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, it was actually a really sweet deal. So, we were different. Entrances from the hallway, but they connected in the back. And so, it couldn't have been any of a sweeter situation. And so, yeah, I, that air, that space became available kind of, I guess maybe a year or so, before I was ready to get it. So, I, we snagged it and then I built it out, you know, had people kind of build it out and customized it. How I how I wanted. And yeah, so, that's, it was, it couldn't have been better. And then when I stopped doing it and T my dad's practice expanded into that area and he hired some new providers. And so, it was kind of all a seamless situation. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. You, so, you were literally in private practice, like from the get go. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Day one. Day one. Catherine Maley, MBA: Was it helpful to have your dad nearby? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? That's really unusual to, like, usually you play the hospital game for a while, you join another practice and you hate that after a while. And like, just out of sheer frustration, you end up saying, okay, that's it. I'm going solo. You got there much faster than normal. So, how did that happen? And can others do what you did? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, yeah. I think so. I think the biggest thing is, you know, it was certainly helpful that. My dad was there and he's been in the community for 30 years. And so, our name you know, around here, I feel like is, is pretty well known and well respected. He's excellent at what he does. And so, I think that was helpful. And I really thought, Catherine, that the ENT practice would fuel. The facial plastic practice, right? So, a mom brings little Timmy in to get his ear tubes checked and maybe she'll get Botox. It saves her a trip maybe to the, to the facial plastic surgery office or but you know, that didn't happen. And it, it happened occasionally, but people come into a medical office with a completely different mindset, right? It's what am I going to have to pay out of pocket? Why isn't insurance covering all of this? And so, I found that it didn't really work. Like I thought it would. There's certainly some symbiosis there, but, but not, not what I anticipated. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I've tried that for years for decades. I've tried to take an ENT practice and they put a facial plastic surgeon in there or a plastic surgeon. And we've tried to market them. It's just a different mindset when that patient has an insurance card and they know you as an insurance card. And now you're saying what you want my credit card. It, that's a, a big hill to climb. So, it's not the best way and you, and you learn that. Are you still doing ENT at all or any reconstructive at all? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Or you're just all face? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I do only so, I don't do any ENT at all anymore. I'm on no insurance programs or contracts at all. And I still do, I love doing Mo's reconstructions. And so, every once in a while, I did a news anchor some time ago of her Mo's reconstruction. And so, all of. The news anchors, I feel like, if they have to have something removed from them, I end up doing them, and that's all just kind of out of pocket. And, and so, there's been some, a good amount or some things like that, but as far as like a steady stream of Mo's, I don't even do that anymore. Catherine Maley, MBA: Would a newscaster be a good referral source for you, or are they willing to talk about that online? Because if you can get a few of them in the community, you are golden. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I know, I know, I, you know, I've never. I, I kind of feel funny sometimes about trying to pull, you know, pull those strings or so, I, I just, I haven't, I haven't asked, I haven't, I haven't asked if they'd be willing to do that. I haven't asked if I could do a little segment on their channel or I just haven't asked about any of that. Cause I, you know, it's. It's delicate. Catherine Maley, MBA: I feel like, well, here's what you do. You, you turn your wife into the PR director temporarily and she's your third party and she would be the one who, and she's literally the PR director and she's the one who broaches the topic and just says, would you be open to, and then she gives them some ideas and that way you're not involved. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? And she looks professional and all feels professional. That's how the, that's how the big guys do it. Philip Robb, Jr., MD: All right. That's great. I like that advice. Thank you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Tell her she got it. She's got to get out there and help you. Yeah. All right. So, now we're back at the building. Now, did you buy or lease that space that you have? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: The space that we're currently in is a lease. I tried to buy it and they wouldn't, they wouldn't let me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I was wondering who gave you all this money? Like, I mean, isn't it more getting more and more difficult to borrow money to Set up shop. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, that's another interesting story. So, I don't know about, I, I actually believe it or not cashflow to everything. I do not like the debt thing. And I know a lot of my colleagues, you know, are like, that's silly, you know, that's great. And it just makes me uneasy. I can't sleep well at night. And so, when I knew that we were going to actually, it's a crazy story how we ended up in this place, but it has to do with COVID. We were going to move somewhere else where the, the kind of close to where I used to operate. It was in the same building that the surgery center that was owned by the hospital here in town. And so, they say you can't, you know, they own you if you live there because they say no surgery centers, you know, if you bring in another doctor, they have to be on staff at our hospital. They can't be on, you know, they just, it's very confining. And so, there we were. Going back and forth with our attorney and the hospital's attorneys and all that stuff for months and months and months and months. And, and so, finally we get something that my real estate attorney's like, Hey, this is good. This is, you're not like so, tied down. This is to bring somebody in it's reasonable. And then that was March of 2020. We all know what happened then. And I was like, literally had the pen in my hand and I just said, you know, Let me let me hold off on this and I just put it into my drawer. And then of course I've, you know, that happened and then this place came available. And this is, we are, we have a freestanding building because one of the issues in my old office was parking. There was a parking garage. And so, people would have to get there 15 or 20 minutes before their appointment time, and then there was a couple of different buildings on that campus. And so, it's navigating that Catherine here. It is. You pull right up. You walk eight steps into our lobby. Our surgery center is attached. That's a separate entrance in the back. And, you know, you can see maybe behind me there's woods behind me. And so, it's very private. It's nice. It's, it's perfect. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's exactly what we want. We want comfort, convenience, privacy, and safety. Boom. You have all that. So, I did notice you have the name of your practice is Robb Facial Plastic Surgery, but then this surgery center is called North Central or something. What's the thought process there or what's the business model? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well yeah, great question. It's called North Point Surgery Center. We're on North Point Parkway. Yeah, no problem. And so, I, when I built that, My initial thought was that I'm going to have other surgeons come operate here. And so, we built it out like that. So, in the surgery center itself, there's nothing Robb at all. So, it's completely, anybody could go there and you know, and it doesn't, it's not like they're in, in my kitchen. But after, after building it, then and we just kept adding more and more surgical days. And I really, I tell my colleagues who are like, should I build an OR? I tell them it's like operating in your own kitchen, you know, where everything is, you know, and then the people I operate with, I operate with them every single day. So, then I started thinking, you know, I don't know if I want somebody else to come in here. You know, and so, no other humans have ever operated here and we operate five days a week typically. So, it's just been, it's been fine. Catherine Maley, MBA: I heard a talk on this a while back, the efficiency of the same staff, the tools are in the same place, the processes and the protocols are the same. There is a lot to be said for that. It cuts down so, much on mistakes, inefficiency just the lagging of what's where, who's doing what. Congratulations. If you can have that, nobody has ever said, boy, do I regret building that thing out? Not one person has ever said that even when they were they were 8 million in saying, nope, you know what? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? I'm okay. He had a vision. He did want to bring other surgeons in. I will tell you that is more of a headache than most realized getting another surgeon to use your facilities, your way. That's a whole other headache. So, if you can avoid that good for you. So, good for you. Are you, are you completely happy with your setup? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Oh, I'm so spoiled and I like it's, it's great. I mean, yeah, it's, I couldn't, I mean, you know, and, and where I used to operate, those people are great too, but the big issue, just like you, you hit the nail on the head is. You know, I would have a different scrub tech every day. So, every day is the, is the first day, or there's some times where we have a really long day. And so, I'll say, Hey guys, can we, can we start at like 6am as far as like, you know, let's like roll back at six. And they're like, great, let's do it. And those there's, or there's been one time where I'm trying to leave town on a Friday and I'm like, Hey, can we start at six? Just, just so, we can be done earlier and I don't feel like I'm, you know, rushed or anything. Sure. And so, there's like flexible and freedoms and, you know, that you can't maybe get at a hospital center. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, you're not at all connected to a hospital. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Like physically or physically or legally? Catherine Maley, MBA: No, no relationships there. Are they, are they trying to buy your or no — ? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No. Nobody has come asking to buy it at all. I'm on staff at several of the hospitals. And I. I used to take call there, like ER call. I don't do that anymore, but I still keep my staff privileges just in case I need to go there for something. But, but no, I'm not, I don't do things regularly at the hospitals anymore. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. Congratulations. Things are going well, huh? Just give me one mistake because it sounds all too easy right now. Give me one mistake you made that you really learned from, but you lost some time, money or sleepless nights over it. Regarding the surgery center? Anything you're just building, building in this practice from the ground up. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, I think so. I think one of the big lessons that I've learned through this is if you're going to, let's say you're going to do anything kind of a partnership or an affiliation with anything, anybody, any, any organization, you want to get everything in writing signed. Before you do anything and I've learned that and so, you know, just you're excited to do things and you start telling, you know, telling people and then things, things don't pan out and, you know, it looks kind of silly. So that'd be, that'd be 1 thing is, is, is really just kind of take, take the time. And always, always, always get legal counsel on everything. Catherine Maley, MBA: No, good, good point. Everybody has always said when this, when the stuff hits the fan, the only thing that that judge cares about is what did you have in writing. And who, who signed what, and if you look at it that way, it's so, true because it's so, easy to bypass all that when, when everyone's happy and when they're not, it gets really detailed very quickly. So, yeah, congrats on that. So, regarding anesthesiologists. I'm hearing that's getting to be a challenge. Like, have you had any trouble with that? Or are you using, what are they, nurse anesthetists? Or what are you doing about the anesthesiology part? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah so, we have three anesthesiologists that are, you know, that work with us regularly. And it's kind of, that's, there's a, they have a company and they'll go to different, different sites. And then there's about 15 or 20 of them in this company. And of those we'll, I only, I only want three. And so, there's the, these three are just awesome and they know exactly kind of what we do. And it's just, so, that's been great. And so, they've been they've been with us, you know, since we started here and They're in, it's just, it's awesome. And I, and I think the big thing is I, I treat them literally like part of our team. And so, we do team events. I'm sure we'll talk about the team and all that, but we do team events and they're at every single one. When we do Christmas presents and that kind of thing, they get those things too. And so, they, they're literally a part of our team. And I, you know, think of them that way. Catherine Maley, MBA: Then let's talk about the team because I think you've got an NP, a couple of nurses, probably estheticians. What is your setup? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. So, we have an esthetician, we have a PA, we have two nurse injectors and, and then three other RNs in addition to that. And then, and then a medical assistant those are kind of like the clinical people. And yep, and then we have, you know, the marketing and front desk and patient coordinators, that kind of thing too. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how much of your practice is surgical versus non-surgical I assume, because it looks like you're pretty heavy into the non-surgical. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Would you say that's almost a necessity in today's world to develop that patient for life kind of practice or, or stick to the one and done? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, great question. So, our practice itself when you when you expand to the other providers, I'm going to say is still, you know, 70% surgery or so. And then when you're talking about me, it's probably 90 plus percent surgery. And I love doing the injections. It's just that there's only so, much. You know, and I'm trying to figure this whole work life balance thing out and there's not enough hours in a day, you know, to do that, all the things and, and to have enough time to do all the things. And so, so, yeah, we so, those are the kind of the, the different things. And so, we offer, you know, the spa has lasers and laser hair removal and hydrofacial and, you know, all the, those different treatments were now currently investigating radio frequency devices. So, if you have any advice on that, I'd love to, love to pick your brain on or off the air. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it's enough of RF I like IPL plus RF microneedling and I do it quite often. And I, it's just a go to limited downtime, keeps everything where it needs to be. So, far so, good. Yeah. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Excellent. Excellent. So, yeah, that's what. That's kind of the next thing for us is that is the RF world, but I do think that you know what I want to what I'm what I'm striving to create here. Catherine is a is a place where patients can come. They know they're going to get the top quality of care, that's truthful and honest. So, about every day. I'm telling, I see a patient who wants X, Y, or Z. And I say, you know, I don't think you need that. I'm not going to do that for you. And you know, we can do the other thing that you, we were talking about, but you don't need that. And you know, it always what, I mean, I say, I say, I'm sure you can go this way down the street or this way down the street and find two or three people to do it for you, but I don't think you need it. And I don't think you're going to be happy. And I think if you spend a hundred bucks on it, it's too much. And, and so. But then, you know, the same, the same thing. So, every patient gets my cell phone number who we operate on and just check in on patients. And so, you know, we're definitely not the cheapest and sound, we hear that sometimes, but you know, it's the, just the quality of care. And so, from injectables to surgery, I just wanted to be you know, the absolute best that we can offer. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, on your website I noticed that it said 24 7 nursing care and they would actually change bandages at your home or hotel If that's true I would pay anything for that If I don't have to go out after surgery and I can stay put and other people are running around. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Oh my god I hope you do that because that is such a good differentiator. Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, and so, it used to be me doing that and I would do I would do home visits And I would well, for our out-of-town patients, I'd go meet them at the hotel, usually a couple of different times. And now it, you know, that's impossible. And physically, I feel like, you know, Atlanta is such a sprawling area, but in fellowship, we gather, we literally, we would visit people at their homes every day. We'd start the day at 5 a. m. and we would go there. To one or a couple of different people's homes. And of course, that's a smaller town than Atlanta is and then operate all day. And then usually maybe a stop on the way home at somebody else's house. And so, that really taught me a lot about just, you know, service. And so, yeah, for our out-of-town patients, we have nurse that can stay with them because some people don't have, you know, family who are able to come or friends who are able to come either. And so, we've got, we've got those channels kind of all. All ready to go. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that has to help your reviews. I don't know how you've done it. So, I'm going to ask, how did you get 366 Google reviews at 4. 9 rating? And I commend you for 4. 9. I'm sure you wish it were 5. 0. It would look inauthentic if you did have 5.
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, we that's a great question. I so, I have this thought and You know, so, I, I have a couple of little gifts over here from patients and to me, a patient brings a gift when the value that they received from you and your office is higher than what they paid. That's my thought process. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's my thought process. So, they fill that gap oftentimes with a bottle of wine or, you know, a president or something like that. And I think Google reviews in a, in a, in a kind of a funny way is pretty similar to that. And so. And if, and if we read through our Google reviews, I think a good amount of them would say, you know, I texted him on a Saturday and he texted right back. It's those kind of things that maybe aren't quite the norm but I think are important. And so, when the patient receives that, those kind of services, they're like, well, shoot, I mean, at least I can do is leave a Google review. And we do ask, you know, them to. But it's frustrating. And I don't know. We got to figure something out because the Google monster and the Google machine is we have I have a lot of reviews that patients are sending us screenshots that they completed, but they're not popping up there. And it's not a, it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy because we have no control, no power. We've, we've called Google and good luck with that. You know, they, so, that's a tough thing and. You know, I know that Google reviews, of course, are powerful and people look at them. And so, it's a, I don't know what the long term, you know, answer for that is. Catherine Maley, MBA: I have the same issue. I have doctors who gave me a review. Do you know how difficult it is to get a busy surgeon to stop what they're doing and give you a Google review? And they, they won't show it. And it's like, are you kidding me? I can see maybe consumers, you know, like you'd have more trouble with them, but these are doctors and you can tell I work with doctors. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? So, what in the world? Would be filtered out on that one. I hear you. But are you, so, you're asking, are you asking or are the, is the staff asking or is there some kind of process you have. Because that doesn't happen by accident for you to get the number? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, I ask. I ask And, and if, I don't think, if, if the surgeon doesn't ask it, And so, we've made it easy and we send links to patients through kind of our, our software and, but I say, you know, we, I just saw a patient before hopping on with you and she's three weeks out from lower lid bleph, fat transfer and laser. And she's like, she's like my husband. Keep telling me that I look so, incredibly amazing. That's the best. And so, we're looking at before and after pictures and I'm like, you know, it would, it would really mean a lot if you'd, you know, if you do a review and she just share whatever you're willing to share and she's like, are you kidding? I don't know why I didn't do this 10 years ago. And I'm like, well, somebody's waiting. So do that Google review and I can't wait to read it. And so, we have team meetings every week and I, and we all read. The reviews to the staff. So, I read them if it's about me or a surgical result, I read it. But if it's one of our nurse injectors, they get to read it. And I think it's really important to connect routinely and frequently. What we're doing here and why we're here. And, and, and, you know, those are the results that, that fuel us. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know what else talk about staff motivation. If you're going to just complain to staff constantly that you're not doing something right, that's not very motivating. The other side is celebrating the wins. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? I love that you're having weekly meetings. Meet with your staff. They are everything to you. They're your revenue generators. They're your practice building assets. Like, I don't know how else to say that. And if you go over reviews with them, and especially when they're naming, the patients are naming your staff by name, first name. I mean, that's just golden and like talk about acknowledging your staff and encouraging them to keep up their best customer service skills. That's how you do it. You don't have to throw a bunch of money at them, throw accolades at them. Isn't that helpful? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: It is. It totally is. And we, you know, we give out gift cards and do fun things. And it's, it's, it's a lot of fun. And I think, I think that's totally, you know, there's so, much truth to that is what you're saying is absolutely. And I, and to be honest, I, a lot of it I've learned from you and your podcast. And so, thank you for that. Catherine Maley, MBA: What do you do for fun? Because that's another thing that doctors get caught up on. They're like, we don't have time for fun around here. You know, we're busy. And I think you better get, I'm busy here. I mean, it doesn't take a ton. But what are some of the things like I always say have the taco truck roll up for lunch today. You know, that took no time there. It's what an hour and it can go really far, but what other kinds of things can you do that are fun? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? They're not so, disruptive to the practice. Philip Robb, Jr., MD: You're talking about, like with the staff in the office kind of thing? So, one of the things is we, we have fun. And so, you know, if you, if you follow us on Instagram, there's, we're laughing. It's like, we have a good time. And so, I think that's, that's really important. And then. At least every quarter we do an evening out with our staff and so, what we just got a couple weeks ago we went bowling and So, we go we eat together. We have some beers and we bowl together and it is so, fun the time before that we went to top golf and so, we did the same thing except we were golfing We've done a simulator thing where you go and you can play all these different Or it's in the simulator. We've gone out to fancy dinners. We've gone to different malls by party buses. And there's like, it's, it's fun. And I, I really, I really think that's a huge, it's an investment because these things, of course, aren't cheap when you're doing it for a good, a good number of people. But when. When the team is cohesive and they're friendly and they're friends, the patients can tell and it just kind of brings everything together. Catherine Maley, MBA: Any tips on hiring or where are you finding people? Are you having any trouble keeping staff or having any turnover issues? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No not, not currently. I most, I heard the number the other day. Like, I think, I think like 80% of our people have been here longer than a year. And. But early in the COVID thing, I've lost two nurses total to the travel gig, one of which after doing her travel gig, wanted to come back. And, and so, so, that's the thing for sure. And you know And of course they don't ask me my opinion on it. Like, hey, I'm struggling with the fact that I could go travel. The thing is, you know, travel nursing, you can make a lot of dollars, but there's a reason why they're paying so, much, right? You're going to this; these undesirable places and you're going to be doing undesirable tasks usually. And that's what, that's what happened to this one nurse. She's like, life was miserable. And, you know, and so, you know, there's, there's that. And I, I just think. As far as kind of keeping staff, you know, we're a family. And so, we treat each other like a family and. You know, we celebrate victories. One of our nurses just is pregnant and she's been trying to get pregnant for a while. And so, we had a gender reveal party last week, which was super cool. She's having a girl. Okay. I thought it was going to be a boy, but yeah. But she's having a girl, and that was a huge, that was so, fun, and you know, this is a, this just, this will, this story will kind of encapsulate the family. So, one of our, our front desk, and she's kind of our aesthetics coordinators, she lost her father on Christmas Eve. not this last one, but the year before. And which, you know, something like that happens on such a, it was a tough, it, it made for a tough, long, long time. And so, her brother plays college football and they were playing in the bowl game in Hawaii. And so, one of our nurses. Her boyfriend works for Delta, works for airline. And so, she, our, our employee said, Hey, can you get me like a buddy pass or something? So, that maybe, just maybe I could go spend holidays and Christmas time with my family and watch my brother. And, you know, especially be with family that during this tough time. And so, the buddy pass thing was never going to work out because those flights are booked. So, our entire team donated and we presented her with. Round trip ticket to Hawaii for Christmas time so, that she could go be with her family, watch her brother play in the bowl game and it's stuff like that. That you know, that, that, that's just really special to me. And it kind of gives me the chills every time I say it. Catherine Maley, MBA: I just hope everyone's hearing that this is all an investment. It is so, much cheaper to keep your team intact. Then then have strife and drama and conflict with a team that doesn't work well together. It costs you money. It definitely costs you sleepless nights. It's a headache. I just investing in your team is everything, especially in today's world when it's so, competitive. They are your competitive advantage, you know, so, I don't know where you learn this. Well, where did you learn this? Because you know, most doctors are not Up to, up to that part. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: You know, I've learned so, much from podcasts just like leadership podcasts or different kind of things. And always, and I've learned a ton from, you know, you mentioned Ed Williams. I have learned so, much between the hours of 10:00 PM and 1:00 AM at, at a, you know, restaurant or something with him. And I, I, you know, any time that I can get around, somebody like that, or, you know, just somebody who's a little bit further along. It doesn't have to be somebody like that, but just, I love learning from everybody and anybody. And another good tip for, for your listeners is food. And so, supply food for your team. We have a Costco, we do a Costco run every whenever we need to, and just. We just fill up. We have a big break room and just fill it up and the staff just, you know, I think that makes a big difference. They don't have to bring lunch all the time. There're snacks, you know, they have a drive home. There's, they can grab a Coke on their way home. It's, it's. That's a big deal to another investment. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's talk about marketing because I was wondering how competitive is it in your area? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, we're in Atlanta, so, I mean, I think I, I, I super competitive is, is the answer, but the way that I don't think of it, like, I don't think of the other plastic or facial plastic surgeons as competition. I just talked to one on the phone for 20 or 30 minutes yesterday. Like we're friends. There's just so, many patients and different people have different aesthetics. You know, my noses look different than somebody else's. And so, there's going to be a certain number of humans who like their nose is better. And there's going to be a certain number of people who like my nose is better. And so, those kind of all distribute out. You know, and, and so, you know, while yes, there's a lot of people who do what I do, I don't feel like a cutthroat competition with anybody. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you a lot of the surgeons waste a lot of time and energy you know, worried about the competition where I, I would rather focus on just doing your best, excel at excellence and it'll all work out. Do you have a hyperbaric chamber? I, I love, I did it I mean, it's no secret, I've had two facelifts actually, and one, I was, I had a time crunch and the surgeon said, you've got to go to that hyperbaric thing and I thought, well, it ended up being, I don't know what was 1, 200 or something. I can't remember now because I was completely out of my mind at the time. But I was going in there, sitting in there thinking. This is great. This is weird. It's great. I'm walking, I'm watching movies and I've never sat around so, long doing nothing. And I thought, is this really working? And then, I mean, I was up and gone and out the door ready for prime time in 10 days. And I thought, I think it was amazing. And if nothing else, it's a huge differentiator because if you're offering that, because there was a pain in the neck. I had to talk about going outside. I had to go to this center to have it done. It's just a pain and get somebody to drive me and all that. If you have it in your office and you offer it as a package to go, like that goes with your facelift. I hope you are because Huge differentiator, don't you think? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Absolutely. It has been. It's awesome. So, yeah, and I, I did a ton of research beforehand and talked to a bunch of my colleagues and then I actually, Catherine, I put it in my house. For about eight months because I wanted to use it, I wanted to test it for what? And well, I, so, what I did was and, and I didn't have a way really to like write this up or objectify it as much as I would need to. So, but I ride road bikes, right? And so, Saturday morning is, is our big ride every week. And it's intense. It's super intense. This is not like a little joy ride. It's like super intense. And so, I began spending two hours on Friday evening in the chamber on one week, and then I would take a week off. And then the next week I would be back in the chamber for two hours on Friday night, and then I would take a week off. And on average, my heart rate was about 15 to 20 beats lower. when I was in the chamber the night before, and the bike can measure how hard you're pedaling, and my, my power would be higher with a lower heart rate. And at first, I was like, this is placebo. This is not real. But it, it continued and, and the results just kept It kept continuing. And so, you know, I did that for about four months straight. And so, I was like, all right, I'm a believer in this. And then one of our other employees had had some knee issues where if he sits at a restaurant for an hour, his knee stiffens up and he has to take like a good five minutes or so, to kind of loosen up his knee and he started hanging out in the hyperbaric chamber. And that. Went away completely. So, it, you know, those things. And then, of course, patient stuff we've had, I've had some other people in the community, like if a filler got a, an occlusion event. And so, you know, she calls me on a Saturday and is like, Oh, my gosh, can you please, I need to get this person in hyperbaric chamber. So, you know, turned and that was, you know, a night and day difference between kind of how I saw this patient initially and then how she was upon leaving. It's a game changer for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Does anybody else in your community have one? Can you use it as a differentiator in your marketing? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I don't think anybody has one. There are centers around. And I think it'll, it'll be a, it'll be a moment, just a period of time before. People all get one. And so, I don't think it's something that we've really flexed as of yet, as far as marketing goes, but it's certainly probably an opportunity that I'm missing. Catherine Maley, MBA: I would definitely get it in your Instagram and talk about it because the general public doesn't really understand it at all. And if you can explain it to them and the benefits are you're up and running much sooner than you would have been without it. Or you're literally running, apparently, it's good for your joints too. I didn't know that. I just know it helped me get up and back. Back up into life much, much faster than I would have normally. So, all right. So, what, what's working for marketing? What, how did you get so, busy? I want to know what your secret is. What are you doing? Did you, I mean, you're doing some social media. Is it a lot of time spent there? Is that where all the marketing efforts are going? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, no, I think, okay, so, my biggest secret. Is just doing one thing at a time and when and so, the patient that's in front of me, it's 1000% of me in that moment. And so, my only focus in in the day in and day out is taking the absolute best care of the patient right in front of me. That's, that's my thing. And so, and, and so, that's kind of, it all kind of stems from that. You know, you just play the next play, you just focus on the next thing to do. And so, that's kind of been my mantra and that's kind of how we've, how we've built what we have. As far as marketing goes. I think Instagram is really, really awesome. I saw Rhino Plastic Consult today. She found me on TikTok. We don't do a ton on TikTok, but that's great. Word of mouth is, is great too. And so, you know, but I think definitely I do my own Instagram. I would say I would put an asterisk on that. We have Nicole runs our Instagram. Like she's the brains behind it, but then I put my captions, you know, on it and I write that and then I respond to a lot of the direct messages myself on Instagram. And so, it's been, it's been great. And so, I do these Instagram lives on Wednesday. And so, my whole thing. My whole thing is just educating patients, right? So, so, far, Catherine, I've done like, I don't know, 20 or so, of these Instagram lives on, on Wednesday evenings. And so, far I've helped five people who have five people have written me and said I was going to do But now I'm not because of what you taught me. And so, I've, I've at least helped five. And so, I, you know, every evening when I'm doing that on a Wednesday evenings, I say, if I just help one patient, then this was worth my time. Because it can, you know, people can make. make big mistakes out there. So, just educating patients and, and kind of trying to uncover the veil of, of, of plastic of facial plastic surgery. And there's been huge advancements, you know, whether you're talking about ultrasonic rhinoplasty, or you're talking about deep plane facelift, these things are like massive paradigm shifts that I want, you know, the public to understand these differences and these nuances. Catherine Maley, MBA: And do you find that because your reach is much bigger when you're on Instagram, it's all over the U.S.; all over the world. Are they coming in from all over? One of my issues with that is, that is more of a one and done. They love you, but they're also much more cost sensitive, I find, than the, the local patient who, who's heard your name, who's on your website, who isn't so, sticker shocked, just, that's just my thought. But what, what do you say to that? Are they coming in? Like, are you able to track any of this? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. So, over half of our patients now don't live around us. So, they're coming in from out of state and just kind of thinking off the top of my head just this morning. Neither one of the patients that we operated on were close to us. One lives in Ohio. And then the other one, I'm not sure exactly where she lives, but yeah, so, people just are, are traveling and last Thursday patient was in from Tennessee and she kind of, she, you know, she's in her sixties and had done a ton of research and said, you know, if, if traveling down here might definitely makes me more comfortable cause she's watching me on Instagram and she kind of, I've taught her a lot of the things of, of how we do it and what to know what to look for. She's like, I'm just more comfortable down here. It's not a, it's not a bad drive. And, and so, you know, it's they're down here for a week, 10 days, depending on what it is. And then boom, they're back home. It's just like, it never happened. It's a crazy thing. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. Are you doing any other kind of marketing? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? I know you're probably doing SEO. You have a great website. I know who did it, you know, they're, they're the right people. You, that was an investment, right? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yes. Yeah. And that's a funny, funny story. You know, we had, they'd been kind of talking to us for a long time and I, those they're great, great people. And, you know, built a. Built a beautiful site, and I think that a website is a good thing to have, and it should look nice. It should kind of match your brand but I really think that the social media stuff is more important, probably or at least. I would should say it's probably a little bit more effective at grabbing that patient maybe and driving them to your site, but I we don't do really any other marketing so, I don't we don't do any print ads or any of that we it's mainly just that. Catherine Maley, MBA: But all those videos you're doing have you hopefully started a YouTube channel and you're. Adding all of that on. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yep. We've got a YouTube channel and, you know, it's the kind of thing, Catherine, I don't know if you, I, if you remember that old alligator game that kind of like the little alligators and you, and you hit the hit one and another one pops out. That's kind of how I feel like with the social media. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm older than you. So, we didn't, they weren't alligators. I think they were cats or something. Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, you know, I just feel like, you know, you, you, you put your neurons on. On Instagram, and then, and then you're like, Oh, but tick tock, you know, and we, Oh, okay. And so, then we like allocate some resources to our tick tock. And it's like, well, we need to allocate, we need to put all these and compile, comprise all these things and put them over to YouTube. And, you know, it's, it is a lot. And so. Yes, we're working on that and it could always be better, but our team does an awesome job at, at kind of getting all that because just like what I've learned this actually from you is, you know, get the patient saying something and, you know, you can use the whole video on YouTube. That's a longer. You know, your longer time, your longer videos, break up little pieces and put those in Instagram or Facebook things. You know, you can write a blog post on it. You know, you can use one piece of content for multiple things. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's from you. In different ways. Yeah. When I learned that, I thought, wait a second, this is just protocol, like everything else. So, I got my team together and I said, you guys, we're working too hard here. I'm doing 500 videos and nothing's happening. And then we learned, I get it. You have to break it up and you know, and, but you're constantly repurposing content in a different format. It's just so, it makes so, much sense because it's not, it's not that much extra work for the content. Growth or spread that you'll get from it. In today's world, you just have to be everywhere. It's so, frustrating. And just when you think you have it figured out, you know, here comes tick tock. Oh, great. Now I have to figure that out. Are you a dancer or anything? Are you into that? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, I have not. I have not. No, I think yeah. If I started dancing on Instagram or on Tik TOK or whatever, first of all, we would have zero followers and would be disturbing for everybody to see. So, no, it would be painful. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I have to ask this because on your website, and I don't know if this is a sensitive topic or not, but you're definitely talking about your faith, and I personally love that because you're calling out who you are, you know, your values who you are, your philosophy, has that worked for you against you? Has it made any difference? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. Good question. Yeah. I, you know, it's who I am. And so, that was definitely, you know, when, when I was making my first website, you know, that's the question is, do you put that on there? Do you not? And I'm like, you know, it's who I am. And, and so, what I have found Catherine is, is the more you can be you on social media and your website that will select the kind of people who come to see And so, the more you, you are, then the more your people will, or people that That value, those things will come to you, right? And I think when that occurs, then you have a higher likelihood of making them happy. You have a higher likelihood of being friends with them. And, and so, I think it's really worked, worked for good. But I don't know how it's. You know, if it's hurt me, it could have people might be seeing that every day and saying, Oh, you know I'm not going there, but we, we, it certainly doesn't mean that I only treat patients with the same faith that I am well, we take care of everybody for sure. But yeah, so, I, I don't, that's, that's a good thing to, to ponder, but I kind of. Decided like good or you know, it's gotten me this far. You know, and so, I'm all in. Catherine Maley, MBA: I've been marketing for a long time and you learn early on You're better off putting that flag in the sand of this is who I am If you want to detract those who are not like you and you want to attract those who are like you, that's a really good way to attract like-minded people. But you have to let go of the part where some people can't stand that or some people hate you for that. You have to let that go because all that you care about in marketing is who gives you money and Are you happy with the outcome? Are you happy with that group that you're serving? And let the rest go. You can't make everyone happy. And it's such a mind game going, but they hate me, but they say bad things about me on Instagram. And you just, they're not your people. That's all there is to it. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, you can't make, somebody much smarter than me said, you know, you can't make everybody happy even if you're selling ice cream. You know, somebody's going to be mad about something. I think it was Steve Jobs who had some kind of comment like, unless you're giving away free ice cream, you know, 24/7 and you're never closed, you're going to make somebody unhappy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, that is so, true. So, is there, is there any, we're going to, we're getting close to wrapping up. Is there any advice you would have for others? Because you are definitely doing things. Right. Any advice for others up and coming or even open around for a while? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Like, yeah. Well, I think that there's, there's kind of two avenues I would say one from kind of a business perspective, I think it's incredibly important that you align yourself with a good Team and a good and so, that you can hand things off, which is not easy for us to do as surgeons. Like I w I wanted to do everything myself at the beginning and to delegate is, is difficult, but you have to also be patient enough. Teach. the people who you're delegating so, that they do it the same way that you would do it or close to or maybe they do it even better. And then as far as for the surgical side of things, I, I never stopped investing and, and spending resources on becoming a better surgeon and learning the new frontiers and the new techniques, even though it's not comfortable. To, to learn new things and to try new things. And so, you know, I've gone to cadaver courses and there's another one I'm, I'm signed up for later this year. And, you know, we have right now, I feel like it's such an exciting time. Like I was mentioning in facial plastic surgery because of the, just the innovations, I mean, rhinoplasty innovations over the last couple of years have been incredible. Incredible. And before that, there wasn't really many big, you know, changes or paradigm shifts in hundreds of years. And so, you know, that, that's a huge, huge thing. And so, I tell patients, you know, I'm kind of, I just do nose, neck and face only. So, I'm a super, super, super specialist in these things. And so, I'm kind of like a three-trick pony. And if that's all I do, I better be really good at them. And so, that's my kind of my commitment to my patients is to keep learning, and you know, keep getting better. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, tell us something we don't know about you. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I knew you were going to ask this. And so, there's a couple of things that I was that I was. Toying around with, but I think a cool story is that I have played craps with Jon Bon Jovi in Las Vegas. Catherine Maley, MBA: No, did you know it was him? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: So, no. Not at first, I did not. But and this was years and years ago. I was in college, but, and then I started singing the song for him. not really singing, but just kind of play singing that he did not sing. And so, it was, it was a really funny thing. And so, yeah, that's my claim to fame. Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't get it. Why are you singing to Bon Jovi? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, we were, we were playing craps and we were having fun. And so, I didn't realize that it was him. And so, a lot of people start coming around and then we start, and I, I had shorter hair and there may have been a little product in my hair. So, he may have called me a backstreet boy. And then I, I started singing a song that I thought he sang, but he didn't. It was Def Leppard, some other, some other song. And so, yeah, that was it. We've been best friends ever since. Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you get his autograph? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, no. But that's something that's interesting about me for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and you have a wife and three girls. So, what's it like? Is the dog at least male? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yes, he is. Catherine Maley, MBA: You are surrounded by females. What did you grow up with females or was this all new to you? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, I grew up with two sisters and a brother. So, there's four, four kids in the family. And so, yeah, I think. Yeah, my, my three daughters are amazing. And my wife's amazing. And, and, and then the majority, we have a couple of guys on our staff which is good. And then, yes, we do have a boy dog, which is, which is critical. But yeah, that's just kind of my, I don't know anything different, Catherine. It's just kind of like, it's where I am and it's, it's, it's great. I can't complain. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, well, you're just doing such a great job. I'm excited to just watch you grow more because all your moves seem, I mean, it seems like it's been easy sailing for you. I don't normally hear this. It's usually a rockier road. So, but yours seems to be fantastic. So, so, far so, good. If somebody wanted to get ahold of you, what would be the best way? Philip Robb, Jr., MD: They can email me at drrobb@robbfacialplastics.com, or you can go to our Instagram. We're @robbfacialplasticsurgery, and you can DM me there and happy to interact. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, thank you. So much. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to be in solo practice with no debt. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Robb, you can reach out to his website at, www.RobbFacialPlastics.com. A big thanks to Dr. Robb for sharing his experience on how he got into solo practice with no debt. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Solo Practice, No Debt — with Philip Robb, Jr., MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drphiliprobbjr #philiprobbmd #philiprobbjrmd #solocosmeticsurgeon #nodebtcosmeticpractice #plasticsurgeondebt | |||
| Interview with ASPS President — Gregory A. Greco, DO (Ep. 213) | 08 Jul 2023 | 00:44:53 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and my interview with ASPS President, Dr. Gregory Greco. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Interview with ASPS President — with Gregory A. Greco, DO". I recently attended the California Society of Plastic Surgeons' annual conference held in San Francisco. (Union Square was surprisingly clean and quite pleasant and I hope it stays that way). They had several plastic surgeon heavy hitters speaking about hot topics such as how social media and technology are affecting this industry and their practices specifically. One of those speakers was Dr. Greg Greco who is a board-certified plastic surgeon in solo practice in NJ. He's doing that while also fulfilling the duties of current President of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS). So, I invited Dr. Greco to be a guest on the Beauty and the Biz Podcast to talk about lots of things he touched on at the conference that included:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Interview with ASPS President — with Gregory A. Greco, DOCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and my interview with the ASPS President. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits, and I'm very excited about today's guest who knows a lot about balancing cosmetic with insurance. It's Dr. Greg Greco, and he's a board- certified plastic surgeon in private practice in New Jersey, and he's also the current president of ASPS, otherwise known as the American Society of Plastic Surgeons. So, I want to jump right in and talk about his practice, my interview with him as the current ASPS President, and the society. So, Dr. Greco, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Gregory A. Greco, DO: Catherine, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the invitation and I'm looking forward to this. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, absolutely. This all came about because we recently, during Memorial weekend, why that meeting was Memorial Weekend. I don't know, but we were at that California Society of Plastic Surgeons and you were like one of the first speakers and I thought, oh my God. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? It was so nice of you to show up in California for that meeting and you had such good things to talk about, even like the business side, the marketing side, the physical side, you know, like, like treat. You really know it all. So, I really wanted to pick your brain about things going on in the world. So, let's just start with your own practice, because it's not like your practice can take a break. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? You still have to practice. So, can you describe what your practice is made up of? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: So, thanks Catherine. Thanks for that question. So, my practice I have, I'm in a solo private practice my entire career, and I kind of have this, this kind of hybrid academic, private practice, but predominantly cosmetic surgery practice. So, so I am a full body cosmetic plastic surgeon. I, I also do a small amount of implant-based breast reconstruction as well which I never wanted to give up because I, I just love. Our breast cancer patients. And I kind of have this bimodal distribution of my cosmetic surgery practice where the mommy makeover patient and then the facelift blepharoplasty facial patients. So, so I kind of spread the, the practice between two generations, if you will. And my hybrid portion that I'm talking about is I run a general surgery residency program. I have a board certified. General surgeon and a board-certified plastic surgeon by the American Board of Surgery, as well as the American Board of Plastic Surgery. So, I maintain both certifications throughout my entire career. I've been in practice for 22 years and I have practiced both in Red Bank, New Jersey, which is a, basically it's a bedroom community of New York City. And I also have a maintainer practice in on Central Park South in New York City. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. I have to ask, how difficult is it in today's world to balance the insurance side of your practice with the cash side of your practice? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, it's, it's always challenging to balance your practice. Period. And then the insurance aspect, you know, we were predominantly cosmetic surgery, but the insurance aspect, I think, you know, again, maintaining that portion of the practice, especially for my breast cancer patients, you know, for me is so important. But, but it's difficult, right? Insurance companies or insurance carriers, Between the regulatory issues and the all the legislative issues, and then just the complexity of insurance makes it complicated. You know, we pay a lot in salaries to, to navigate all of that and it's frustrating sometimes. Moreover, you know, forget about our end of it for the patient. It's really complex. Catherine Maley, MBA: I, as a consultant to plastic surgeons, it's just so difficult to consult on that because I just want to talk about the cash side because I know it so well. Yeah, and it's just, it's an, it's a cleaner kind of business, but I appreciate those who still do insurance. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Thank God you know when you need it. Thank God there are good people doing it. Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. I mean, I, I think the, you know, having alternative revenue streams and, you know, I think when you look at, you know, the, the for-profit aesthetic medicine, you know, it's certainly, it does, it's cleaner. It's easier to kind of figure out because they're, you know, it's predictable. Mm-hmm. Whereas, you know, when you have a hybrid, I mean, it's, it's definitely more complicated again. But you know, like anything, you, you, you figure out how to navigate it. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Now, are you basically a surgical practice or do you also believe on, in the non-surgical and building that patient's relationship, so they come back for surgery? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? What's your feeling on that? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. No. I'm all in. I think it's an incredibly important, I think it, all the services are, you know, you see your patients and you don't want to, you know, parse out the services, you know, to different practices. So, one of the things, especially. Being a solo private practitioner, you know, the injectables, you know, we started, you know, this was 22 years ago, so neurotoxins, there was one and injectables. There was really nothing that was worthwhile as, you know, you're a consultant in this industry, you know. So, we went from, you know, stuff that was just marginally okay to so many different products now, so and so I kind of grew with the injectable market. My practice kind of grew the same way. And, you know, those were always the, the best way for me to have FaceTime with my patients. I was always my own injector. I have several like, you know, injectors now and, and you know, other services offered within my practice. But no, I think we are a full-service practice for lots of different reasons. Because, I think it's important for your patients, including your surgical patients. And, you know patients want all their services under one roof, if they can. That's perfect for the patient. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's tough to manage all of those profit centers. Mm-hmm. So, who's running the show over there? Are you trying to manage all of this? Do you have somebody helping? How? How are you set up? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, it's, it's a, it's actually a great question. I mean, when you look at, you know, the profit centers within the business so I, I can happily say that I, I've had the same accountant since I started. So, we've had a great relationship and, you know, once every quarter, you know, we're, we're, we're together in person and. And, but you know, between both of us, we, we seem to manage it so which is great and, and I think that, you know, over the course of time having so many really bright colleagues and you know, we always discuss this stuff, we always try to figure out, you know, whether another way to kind of twist the biz and figure out, you know, what the room is generating and you know which profit margin actually is. And you know, because there's a lot of complex math when it comes to dealing with industry about. You know, the cost of products and, you know, today versus tomorrow versus, you know, whatever incentive program is out there. So, but I think we, we, we seem to manage, so, but it's always complicated and it's always it's always, you are always learning to stay ahead of it. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And then what about the trends in patient demand patient procedures, what are they liking? What are they no longer liking? What has surprised you about the demand? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Well, you know, the, it's interesting, the demand for procedures, the demand for injectables, depending on, you know, so the one thing I, I think that we've all been kind of it wasn't a surprise attack, but social media has really become the, almost the, the bellwether for what the phone. You know, calls may be about the whatever particular day. So, because you know, now versus just having to read a paper, read a magazine, you know, you just have to go sit in, in your waiting room and, and go through the magazines to see what people are going to be asking you about. I don't have the time, maybe the patience to sit and get flip through, you know, all of Instagram and figure out what were TikTok, what the patients are going to be looking for, however, I think there are things, you know, we recently had kind of this kind of surge in buckle fat, right? People wanted buckle fat pad removal. And then, you know, we had the, the autologous fat grafting to the buttock and now we're seeing the reversal of that trend. So, you know, I, I think. Regardless, you know, there's always something trending, there's no doubt about it. You know, the lip flip is still kind of, people are coming in and asking for the lip flip. So, regardless of whether or not people truly understand what it is, it is something that staying on top of it is helpful just to understand the terminology. So, you know, I think that the non-inject, I'm sorry, the non-surgical portion of, of, of this business is always, I think, kind of. Getting us or it's probably the bigger ask on a daily basis. Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. Regarding the patients though themselves, have you found that they come in a lot more, I don't know if it's educated or misinformed or, you know all of it. How are patients different now than they used to be during that consultation? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, I, I think that the patients, at the end of the day, they're educated. It's all information. So, I think that the patients have information, which is very helpful. My job as a practitioner and as a plastic surgeon is to just really. Help them understand the nature of their request, whether or not, you know, through kind of some shared decision making, whether or not whatever they're asking for is actually appropriate for them. You know, so, so I think that at the end of the day, as much as we want to be cynical about some of the things it's driving, you know, patients to our practice, you know, because patients trust you. So, they're going to say, okay, tell me about this. Is this actually a procedure that. I can do, do you think this is realistic for me? Can I have this result? You know, so, so I think the expectation management at the end of the day, especially, you know, who knows what we're actually looking at on, I mean, I'm looking at results saying, really, that's amazing if you really got that result. So, so again, it's, it's confusing. It's confusing to us. As providers. I think it's really confusing to patients, especially when you're not aware of all, whether it's a product, whether it's a surgery, regardless. But I think patients, at the end of the day, they're educated, you know, and, and my job is to make sure that they're educated correctly and that I give them the information they need to make a decision. Catherine Maley, MBA: Along those lines, there's always that big discussion about. Board certified plastic surgeon versus non-board-certified plastic surgeon. And I know your organization has spent time on this as well. How do you educate the patients on that? Do they get it? Do you bother anymore? How, what's your take on that? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Well, I mean, I think we're, we're always going to bother. I think it's always worth, you know, and I think that the clarity has to be, Board certified plastic surgeon versus cosmetic surgeon. And I think the confusion is the fact that the term cosmetic surgeon, I. It can mean anything. There's no clarity around it because there's a lot of boards that aren't a B M S or American board of medical subspecialties that are the real recognized boards. There are some pay-to-play boards out there where some minor qualifications will get you a board certification and it's very confusing for the patients. So, and that's the, you know, unfortunately the biggest problem. So, we as plastic surgeons, you know, I spent, I. Nine years in residency, in operating rooms, making sure that I was as qualified as I could be. So, do you need nine years of residency to inject Botox? Of course not. However, the, there, there's so much that you learn to appreciate and recognize, and I, I always think of it as, you know, do I have the full armamentarium to take care of my complications? And the answer is yes. So, I can recognize and take care of them as well. So, I think that's where we tend to fool ourselves a little bit, where, you know, people appear qualified. And I think that when people, especially with social media these days, you know, just because someone has. X number of followers. It does not equate to competency. It equates to having a good social media background and you know, whether you hire them or you're just good at it, but it doesn't equate to competency. And, and ultimately, you know, especially as the president of society and you know, we. Puts patient safety, you know, as if it's a pyramid. Patient safety is number one. It's the, it's the, it's the top of the pyramid and we just want our patients to make sure that they're going to qualified individuals. So, yes, I'm going to say board certification matters. Yes. I'm going to say plastic surgery matters. Although I have nurse injectors within my practice, they're trained by me, and we all kind of recognize, you know, our aesthetic. We recognize, you know, what we want out of our, you know, whatever we're trying to accomplish. So, we're all looking in the same direction, at least. Catherine Maley, MBA: Long time ago I came up with a marketing tool called Position the physician, and it visually shows the kind of education that went into board certification and I, because everyone can look at your long cv, but the, the world today, I think they're more picture driven. Yeah. So, I just show a one page visual of. This is what went into that while the rest of us got, you know, went to work after grad school. You were, you stayed put for like another decade, you know? That's right. So, there's a lot that went into that and there, there's got to be a balance there between not, it's not bragging, it's like factually explaining why Yeah. You are different than somebody else who didn't go through that. Because, but God, I got to tell you, social media there've been a lot of surgeons who are usurped. By really good marketers. That's right. At least in the short run, you know? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. And, and I'm not saying, and I'm not disqualifying everyone out there because it's, you know, it wouldn't be fair to do that because there are people who are doing, you know, good jobs. The, the concern is about the ability to recognize complications and moreover, serious, sometimes fatal complications and the ability to have that education. You know, there are things that, you know, There as a cosmetic surgeon, you know, not that you had to, but you probably never did a liver transplant. You never did cardiac surgery, you never did. You know, the, so the anatomy, just everything being all over a body and, and operating from head to toe for 10 years. I, I don't know. You know, again, it's not that. Board certified plastic surgeons can't have and don't have complications. It's just, I think that, you know, we put so much emphasis on, on research and meaning that us as consumers, you know, I always say that everybody will research their next dish, dishwasher, that they're going to purchase more than they research their doctor. And it's really true. You know, you're getting reviews, consumer reports seen at this, that, whatever, wherever you're going and just. You know, you just go where your friend went. So, so it's, it's one of those things that, you know, is it hard to quantify? It's hard to quantify, but when you hear it, you know, either in a pictogram or just, you know, just spoken out, it, it makes sense. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, part of your membership, I remember I used to do a lot of work with ASPS years ago and they are very careful about how they market. They had a big list of marketing no-nos. And my issue was, while your... I felt it was almost restraint of trade because you weren't allowed to do a lot of things that the others were doing because there was no regulation over them. Yeah. So, how, how is that going now? What do you allow or what don't you allow in marketing, you know, numbers. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: We, we recognize the fact that, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we want to, you know, hold our members to the, to highest. You know, metrics, whether it's quality, or it's ethics and, you know, the highest moral standards. So, but we recognize at the same time, we don't want to prohibit or limit the ability for our, our membership to stay competitive. As you said, you know, it, it's almost, you know, we're quashing their ability to, so, so. Recognizing that, you know, years ago there was, you, you couldn't even market, you know, say there was a charity and you wanted to, to have a, a basket and have 50 units of Botox that people can, you know, spend a thousand dollars on or $2,000 on. And it all went to charity. But we couldn't even do that. So, we've recognized that, and we do allow certain non-surgical procedures. You still can't, you know, we don't. Recognize the fact that people should be giving away anything that requires, you know, surgery or surgical consent. You know, that's still, you know, we, we prohibit that however, but we've become a little more lenient in what our members are allowed to do. And certainly, we have social media standards and I think overall, you know, it's kind of a little litmus test. Just do the right thing if it makes sense. It makes sense. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Talking again about social media, how do you feel about how crazy that's gotten? You know, people are showing everything huge surgical procedures. It's just gotten very interesting and plastic surgery and social media don't often get along. How are, are you as a society handling that or keeping it upscale and ethical? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Again, I think that we, you know, you certainly can't police every so social media account, nor should we have to. I mean, I think most people recognize, you know what? Patients want "befores and afters" for the most part. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's a little intraoperative, you know, stuff a lot of people like to show them peeling away all the skin from the tummy tuck they just did. Yeah. You know, if, if that's what people want to watch, I guess it's fine, you know, but you know, your immediate three-minute result and your six month and one year result have nothing to do with each other. So, you know, again, it's good for social media. And, you know, people are certainly, you know, getting a lot of likes and followers from this, but I think everybody is now understands your consumption of social media has to come through a filter. So, and we all recognize that it doesn't matter. I mean, other than watching, you know, Like, I'm a sucker for kittens, puppies, baby horses and goats. You know, we, the rest of it, you just kind of, you're just amused by it, right? So, so I think that, you know, if you're getting your news and you know all things relevant to your life from social media, you should probably take a break. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, at the meeting that we were at there were two heavy hitters from Beverly Hills talking about social media and ai, which is artificial intelligence Yeah. And how much that is going to change this. Yeah. Oh wow. It's going to change a few things. And one thing that one of the doctors said that I thought was brilliant was, get all your before and after photos up there right now with your watermarks dated just in case somebody decides to start messing with your photos. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Down the road or something. Did you hear that one? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. No, it was, you know, Dr. Nazarian and Dr. Gava, I mean, they were great. It was great advice because I think AI is, you know, the, one of the biggest threats, you know, the other day the radio, I was just listening to an interview and they were interviewing Sam Altman who developed ChatGPT. It's fascinating because, you know, he was almost saying that, you know, he really thinks that you need government intervention to contain, you know, and to regulate, you know, ai and it was just likened it to, you know, nuclear proliferation and how this has to be a global issue. So, that was fascinating to hear from. Someone who was responsible for, you know, his company for, for developing chat G B T. So, I think it's all a concern. I think it's existential until it's not. So, I mean, yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that horse is out of the barn. I don't know how in the world they're going to regulate that. I know. I love Elon Musk. I think he's amazing. He's a, he is genius. And he said, I warned him years ago, don't let this, don't let this get out. It's going to, it's going to hurt us a lot. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I don't, I mean, it's really hard to comment on who knows. I mean, yeah, I think that, you know, there's, there's, you can ask ChatGPT for post-op instructions, and it still gets, you know, a fair amount wrong. But, you know, as, as you know, listening to Mr. Altman the other day, he said, look, just like you would, it would just say, okay, like you would say, I'm going to call one of my smart friends, or I'm going to read. Some books, and I'm going to continue to learn about this. That's what's probably going to keep happening. So, the question is, you know, are we making ourselves obsolete? I don't, I don't know. You know, so it's a scary question. It's a, yeah. You know, this is the "how" of 30 years ago. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I just saw an example, like I love Joe Rogan. He just, he's doing a really killer job on his podcast and they showed how they put Joe Rogan together with this speaker that he had, but they AI it, I don't know if that's a verb or not. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? And they had Joe Rogan promoting that. Supplement, which was nothing of what was happening there. And you couldn't tell, like I, I couldn't tell. I thought why would he, I literally was thinking to myself, why is he promoting this on his show like that? Anyway, that's kind of, yeah. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: No, I think, I think just proving the fact that, you know, we're going to be as consumers. Unable to recognize, you know, the computer generated or you know, versus the real, and that's concerning. I mean, who knows? Maybe this is going to be the same thing, you know, where it will just be computer generated images. You know, most of us have our voices out there that. Could be copied and, you know, I don't know. It's a done deal. So, we'll see what happens. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'm very happy with my filter on Zoom, so I, I would like to keep that. But the rest I don't know how you're going to date in, on the online, you know, the, the filters are going to be in insane. So, anyway another, imagine going back to the good old days. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: What's that? Imagine going back to the good old days where you actually meet somebody in person and — Catherine Maley, MBA: That's right. Have a conversation, God forbid. How about destination surgery? I did speak at a meeting in Florida and there were almost 10,000 people there. About destination surgery. I had no idea what a big deal it was. Does ASPS think it's a big deal? Or how are you handling that topic? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: So, so there's a, there's a couple of ways to kind of break this down. So, there's medical tourism, which can be international, right? And there's destination surgery, which can be, you know, within our own borders. So, you know, and there's several ways to, just to kind of look at this. Number one, I think international medical tourism, you know, has the potential for disaster. And we have statements and I've actually been interviewed and, and also been quoted in multiple sources about this. One of the biggest concerns is that, you know, we have standards within the United States, you know, if you're going to legitimate board-certified surgeons, and you know, if they're credible and operating in, in whether they're nationally accredited or state licensed facilities. You know, when you're international medical tourism, you don't know what you're getting. You may you not only have the process of travel, which can set you up for a blood clot alone, then you have language barriers and you have, you know, itinerant surgeons, you know people who may be flying in. You may not be meeting your surgeon, you know, until the day of your surgery. So, What does the postoperative care look like if you have drains? Are you being sent home with a drain? And then there's a whole host of, you know, my, my biggest kind of, Tagline with this is, where are you comfortable having your complications? So, you know, most plastic surgery, fortunately, you know, usually goes well, but there's surgery that does not go well, and where are you comfortable with that? So, if you're going to be in a, in a foreign land that you don't speak the language, you know, you, you're going to wind up. Paying more and probably, you know, possibly risking your life. Then there's tourism, medical tourism within our own country. And I think the biggest thing with that, you know, people can get on a plane to go have procedures and it's not uncommon and, you know, especially with plastic surgery and we just want to make sure that. From a society standpoint that whomever is operating is, you know, if they're going to then turn the care over to a local plastic surgeon, that there's communication, that they're not just sending someone home and saying, Hey, which is something that we've seen from Florida. You know, again, some of these, you know, for lack of a better word, these unfortunate. You know, chop shops where people are going and they're being misled and they're then being sent home and say, Hey, when you, you need your drain out, go to the er and they'll pull out your drain. Oh my god. You know, and these things are just immoral and un unethical and, you know, we, we are obviously do not, you know condone any of that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I do know several surgeons who do zip over to Dubai, do surgery, come back. It's a very lucrative thing to do in the short run. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?Personally, I'm thinking, is it helping you grow your practice? I, I, I, I can. Or if you're just trying to get away from your practice and it's more like a vacation, but how does ASPS feel about that? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Well, again, it depends, you know, Dubai's actually a great example because Dubai, I. In as much as I know about it, I've met with the Chamber of Commerce in Dubai, you know, in part of my role and being a part of the not only the recent meeting, the ILAT meeting, but also the Emirates meeting. And they do it right in as much as. They make sure that their operating rooms are in fact credentialed either by, you know, some of our national credentialing agencies or by, you know, the by Dubai, the UAE. So, and then the surgeons that are going over are going over spending time. They're operating, but they're taken care of by plastic surgeons and, you know, and they're not Americans necessarily. You know, I'm not really sure where the patients come from, but again, I don't think, I'm not going to say it can't be done well, but Dubai's a good example of where a lot of it is done well. Because they understand that if they want to become a center for whatever, they have to do it right. They have to promote patient safety. They have to make sure that their physicians are credentialed and boarded. And that they're in fact doing, you know, they're not doing harm to patients because they don't want the stain on their reputation that patients are coming and having complications from plastic surgery, whereas some other countries, you know, don't, didn't, aren't, you know, maybe privy to the fact that this is happening within their borders. So, so I think Dubai, for the most part, the, the country itself is involved in this process. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, from what I've seen, the facilities are gorgeous. Gregory A. Greco, DO: Beautiful, and they're committed to patient safety. Again, I don't necessarily think a 14-hour trip to go have surgery is necessarily the right thing to do, depending on where you're coming from. But I don't know enough about the patient population, where they come from, et cetera. But I do know surgeons, as you do that, operate there and it seems to be a above board. Okay. What's that? The few that I know, so again, I can't comment on the entire industry, but at least the, the, the, some of the surgeons and the processes that I've witnessed. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I will say the surgeons that I do know, there's, there's no story behind it. Like nobody's had a drama or trauma or Correct. It's been fine. Yeah. I just think you have such bad jet lag, like yes. If you're over there for three days, it takes three days to recuperate. You know? I just, I don't know. I don't know if it's a good use of your time, frankly, but — Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, we can be more useful personally. In my own practice, right? Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. Why grow somebody else's? So, let's talk about A S P S and your position now, you've been in, you've been the president since November of 2022, and it's a one-year term. How's it going? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, it's been just absolutely a, a, a wonderful experience. Tiring experience, but a wonderful experience. You know, I've had the opportunity to not only travel the country, but travel a good chunk of the world. And we have first we're the largest plastic surgery society in the country and also in the world. So, we have 50 countries that we have MOUs or memorandums of understanding with. So, so we have just. So, many bright, talented surgeons located that are either national members or international members throughout the world. And, and having the ability to meet so many people and just, you know, they're so bright, talented, innovative, and just the cultural exchange and the scientific exchange has just been fascinating. So, moreover, one of the greatest things is, Having the opportunity to get in front of our residents and medical students mm-hmm. And kind of that pipeline of plastic surgery, you know, all the up-and-coming leaders and, you know, it's, it's really been wonderful and, and, and also having the ability to kind of move the needle forward with migrate board. Just for plastic surgery, you know, whether it's an issue involving, you know, it's a legislative issue or it's a regulatory issue, or it's just something that has nothing to do with that. But you know it's been really fun and like I said, I, I'm surrounded by so many great people to help, you know, to help us kind of move the needle of plastic surgery forward a little bit, which has been just a, a huge honor for me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Talking about the residents and fellows. How do they enter the marketplace in today's world? I frankly can't imagine trying. It's, it's a crowded marketplace and a lot of them, are they going to go academia? Do you know? Have they told you? Are they going to go solo, academia, join a hospital, join a group? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, so we, we have the statistics on, you know, where people are landing when they, when they go out into practice. You know, we still know, at least we know with our membership that about 50% of our ma our membership is still in private practice, whether it's solo practice or, or group practice. But there's still solo practice, so we're about 50/50. I think one of the things that has become very difficult is just opening a practice, especially as a young plastic surgeon, especially if you just want to go into cosmetic surgery. You know, you're really in a fierce marketplace depending on where you are. And the, in the, in the day, you would just go and you do medical stuff and, and. You know, it was just, I feel for them, I think that stuff like this, podcasts, social media, you know, they're just bound to have to be a part of it and participate in it. And the other thing is that when you're starting. You know, especially with medical training, it's very myopic. So, you know, we're kind of, you know, we're just kind of led every step of the way. So, we don't really ever think, oh, I can just go and open a practice. So, we always think you have to join somebody, you have to go look for a job. And I, I just got out and, and just couldn't wait to. Be by myself, you know? So, but it is more, there are constraints, there are many constraints, financial constraints. I think that the industry in medicine in general, because normally in the natural progression of so many plastic surgeons were, you got out, you took call in e emergency departments and you gradually grew a practice into if you wanted to be a cosmetic surgeon, do you know, plus aesthetic surgery. You kind of grew into that versus just beginning and starting that way. And the marketplace has become very different now. So, you know, as you know, many people are cosmetic surgeons now, whether they're credentialed or not. So, they're competing with a, a, a large group of individuals that may or may not be qualified. Catherine Maley, MBA: I know so many surgeons who are looking for associates to join them to Then hopefully, Buy, buy them out. Do you offer a resource to help them with that? Because I get those calls saying, do you know anybody? And I think that's a really big question, you know? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. We have, you know, we kind of pride ourselves on the fact that, you know, we are from residency to retirement, you know, we have multiple resources available to every stage of your career. So, our young career surgeons, our mid-career and our, you know, retiring surgeons, we have resources and opportunities and message boards and, and, you know, ways to kind of. You know, Bring everyone together. So, yes, I mean the resources are there. Everybody has to take advantage of them. We have residents' forum. We have, you know, young Plastic Surgeons Forum, and then we have our Senior Residents Conference. And, you know, there's so many different things and we try to make and the, and the great thing about it is that the medical students and the residents are. They're really industrious people, you know, they really take advantage of all of this, you know? So, so it's great. And our messaging to them has been easier than our o older career surgeons, you know, which includes me. You know, you, we have email fatigue and, you know, we don't necessarily live on social media to get our, you know our information. So, but we have so many resources available and we really pride ourselves on that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you find that the newer generation, they're just different. They're more into quality of life and not crushing it 24 7. Do you find that? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, I guess it depends on who you're looking at, you know? So, I think, you know, and I, and I keep asking myself again, I run a residency program, so I run a general surgery residency program and I'm the associate program director for another program. So, all in all, probably about 70 residents. So, and, and I, I want to generalize and say stuff like that, but I can't because I have some residents that, you know, remind you of kind of the good old fashioned surgery resident. You know, they just work. And that's it. They don't complain. They just work. But I don't know. I mean, is it, is work life balance such a bad thing? Sometimes I think, okay. Did we have it all wrong? You know, here it is, 7:00 PM and I'm still talking to my computer. So, it's, it's I, I don't know. I mean, it, it's something that as long as you recognize the balance. And the reward. I think it's fine. You know, so, and, and I think that, you know, whatever I want to see, and, you know, I, I have to, I'm the one who has to adjust probably more than the young career surgeon. Like I said, I think it's one of those things that as long as you have expectations of your, you know, your input and your reward, then I think it's fine. Right. That makes sense. Catherine Maley, MBA: For ASPS for the presidency, did, did you go in with certain goals that you wanted to conquer while you're the president? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yes, of course. I mean, every, every president has goals. And there were several things that I really wanted to see. I know, one of the things, and with my national meeting coming up in August, I'm sorry, in October, is, you know, there are a few things. Number one, I, I really. Honored and, you know, really take my mentors all of the help. I took that very seriously. And so, we're giving our member surgeons the opportunity to recognize their mentors at our national meeting. Also, just some wellness to kind of talk about, you know, some of the things we were just discussing. I think that wellness and launching our, our project well which was started. Maybe about two years ago, but we're really going to emphasize it at the national meeting. Everything from programming to food choices, to just kind of some relaxation ways and yoga, and, you know, just recognizing that, you know, every now and then it's, it's good to take a little break. And then thirdly, the program that I'm in the process of initiating is something called the Pair program, which is the, it's a, it's basically The academic, private practice, academic educational resource to a way to, to have our private practice colleagues and our Academic colleagues kind of come together and not only for research opportunities, for resident opportunities because, you know, we look at our membership, our membership is 50% private practitioners and like myself, and, you know, there's so many people doing so great work that we never hear from, you know, because they're just busy taking care of patients. They have great data; they have great results. And if they only had a resident that they can partner with, maybe to help mine some of their data, get some of their results out there, get them published, and then the resources to the academic programs would be, you know, all of a sudden, you know, there's some scholarly activity for their residents. There's some maybe an aesthetic practice that, you know, the, sometimes the, the, especially with the academic programs, they may not have the strongest. Ac aesthetic programs depending on where you're training. So, because they're more reconstructive heavy, et cetera. So, it's a way to have some synergy between our memberships and in the academic and the private world. And it's a good way to kind of farm both as well because it's a job opportunity. You know, all of a sudden, you're working with this resident who's fantastic, you're like, you'd be great in my practice. And then, you know, sometimes the academic center says, You'd be great. Come join us. You hate your practice; you hate running your practice. You know, so it's, again, it's a resource management, you know, if you will, for, for both. And again, providing lots of opportunities. You know, we have so many clinical trials that occur that, you know, sometimes, you know, my patients being in private practice, I'm just not aware of. So, if I was partnered with, you know, X University up the road, I can say, okay, you know what? I know there's a great clinical trial and you'd be perfect for that. So, again, I think it's a way to kind of optimize patient experience and physician experience. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when your presidency is over, do you think you're just going to go back to doing things as you were or have you been enlightened and you have a new way of running your practice when you have more time? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: I think my practice would love if I had more time to be in my practice. So, you know, I think it's a, of course you, you know, you grow in every way. I think, you know, one of the great things is the opportunity to meet people through, again, through the country, throughout the country, throughout the world, and just really understand their practice models and you know, all the little takeaways. You know, you're at the California meeting and you're just, You're always getting some pearls, right. So, and practice management wise, fortunately, you know, I'm very proud of my team. And we're, you know, I couldn't do this without them, you know, so I'm very fortunate that, you know, we have a great team and my absence is, you know, it's not, Overly detrimental to my practice. It's detrimental in the fact that when I'm on the ground, I'm running and operating and you know, but you know, they would love to see me here more than, you know, running around. So, but they appreciated. They're, they're, again, they're very proud, which I, I love. And they have done everything to make this possible for me, which I really appreciate it. But you absolutely, I will take away so much from this year and incorporate it into this practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know it's a very big commitment that you made, so congratulations and Thank you then, and it, it's, you'll evolve so much just from what you just said. All of the perspectives you're getting out there and all the people and ways of doing things. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? No practice is the same and that's what I find so interesting. Everyone's got a different way to do it their way. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Good for you. Last question that I ask everybody, I hope you don't mind. Tell us something very interesting about you that we don't know. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Oh God, maybe, maybe I didn't get that far down on what don't you know? I am a sucker for animals. And so, I will tell you that the majority of my screen time is watching, you know, little baby horses and, and goats and, you know, you name it. So, I don't, I don't care about the plastic surgery content as much. You know, it's, you know, purest. I'm truly an escapist when it comes to downtime, I'm an escapist. I will watch the worst movies on a plane. Things that I will never admit to. So, you know, I think when it comes to some downtime and recreational stuff I am, I would be embarrassed to say out loud some of the movies and books that I'll read, so… Catherine Maley, MBA: That's very funny. I am such a dog lover. I love the funny videos. Yeah. And then I love the real ones, like the super aggressive dogs and the dog daddy.com. He, you know, takes care of them in a minute. Somehow, he does some magic and maybe becomes docile. And I am just such a sucker for the dog ones. Nothing beats it. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more? Gregory A. Greco, DO: Nothing beats it. The animal videos by far, you know, I can watch people, pet monkeys, you know, all of them. Even the things I hate the most, which, like, I hate snakes and I'll watch every snake video because it's just fascinating to me. So, the, the animal videos get me every time, so… Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I was with you until you said snakes. Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah, exactly. I don't like the snakes, but I, I, I'm fascinated by watching them. So… Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we're going to wrap up Beauty and the biz. Dr. Greco, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. I know you're pressed for time. If somebody wanted to get ahold of you, should they wait until after your presidency in November? Or how would they get ahold of you? Gregory A. Greco, DO: No, absolutely not. They can, they can visit us on our website at www.DrGregoryGreco.com. They can instant message us through Instagram on DrGregoryGreco, or @DrGregoryGreco, and then they can always call 732) 842-3737. Are just a couple of the ways to reach us. Again, everything has links to everywhere, so, you know, we are very reachable. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on my interview with ASPS President, Dr. Greco. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Greco, you can reach out to his website at, www.DrGregoryGrecocom. A big thanks to Dr. Greco for sharing his precious time with this interview as ASPS President. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Interview with ASPS President — with Gregory A. Greco, DO".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #cometicinsurancepatients #gregorygrecodo #gregoryagrecodo #aspspresident #asps #drgrecointerview #drgreco #drgregorygreco #drgregoryagreco #aspsinterview #aspspresidentinterview | |||
| 3k Lip Lifts Plus 300 Facelifts Per Year — with Benjamin Talei, MD (Ep. 212) | 30 Jun 2023 | 01:07:19 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "3k Lip Lifts Plus 300 Facelifts Per Year — with Benjamin Talei, MD". One way to differentiate yourself in the marketplace is to work harder than everyone else, which is what enables Dr. Talei to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. That doesn't guarantee your success, but it certainly gives you a leg up over your competitors. That's what my next Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest did. Ben Talei, MD, facial plastic surgeon set up shop in Beverly Hills and went to work. For 6 years, Dr. Talei worked 16-hour days, 7 days per week honing his surgical skills and making a name for himself…. …until he had a medial scare and had to slow down. Now Dr. Talei "only" works 12-hour days, 4 days per week providing some of the best results seldom seen. He continues to perfect his techniques and do what others don't, won't or can't. And he uses social media and his before/after photos to set himself apart from everyone else and build a demand he struggles to keep up with. Here are some things we talked about:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: 3k Lip Lifts Plus 300 Facelifts Per Year — with Benjamin Talei, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Talei performs 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. I have a really special guest today who does 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. It's Dr. Ben Talei. He's a cosmetic and reconstructive facial surgeon in private practice in Beverly Hills, where he founded the Beverly Hills Center for Plastic and Laser Surgery eight and a half years ago and performs 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. Now, Dr. Talei's a native Californian and he completed his training at Columbia University, Cornell University and New York Presbyterian Hospital, and then he served as a fellow at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (before he started performing 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year). Then, he also completed two more fellowships to learn the most cutting-edge advanced procedures available. Now, surgeons from around the world visit Dr. Talei's Center to learn his advanced face and neck lifting techniques, as well as his revision rhinoplasty, modified upper lip lift, and his philosophy on how to achieve 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. He's also a popular speaker and published author in medical journals and textbooks, and Dr. Talei's humanitarian pursuits are numerous. He goes on searchable missions and raises funds and awareness for several organizations. And he even received a special award from Beverly Hills City Hall for his charitable works — a testament on his amazing work ethic and his ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. Dr. Talei, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you here. Benjamin Talei, MD: Thank you. Thank you. It's great talking to you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, let's just start out with how did you end up being a facial plastic surgeon? I always found that interesting because I always thought, oh, people would grow up and they want to be a doctor. But how did you get so, specific about a facial plastic surgeon? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: I grew up not wanting to be a plastic surgeon specifically, like against it. So, it's, it is funny. It's not something that I didn't think about. I thought about it and I hated it when I didn't know about it when I was younger. And my original goal was to become a cardiac surgeon, a brain surgeon. Then as I really learned more about the burnout rates and all that, I, I went more towards either orthopedics or head and neck cancer, orthopedics, because I do a lot of carpentry and I've always worked with my hands since I was a kid. So, for me it was like second nature what they were teaching the third- and fourth-year residents and head and neck just because it's really, really intricated and you're dealing with cancer and big extra patients and all this. And I really loved that. I ended up going into head and neck cancer and I was going to be a head and neck cancer surgeon. And then I started crying every day in my third year telling people they had cancer and they would cry. I would cry. And so, I decided at that point to go towards reconstruction of the cancers. And once I started following the reconstructive surgeons, I actually saw that the more challenging cases were the cosmetic ones. So, I wanted to learn all of it, the recon and the cosmetic. And I just love the cosmetic more and more because the intricacy and the difficulty is much, much more, it's much more technically difficult to do a rhinoplasty correctly than a free flap, which sounds crazy because a free flap is a very complex surgery, which is lifesaving. But then to get a rhinoplasty right is a little bit harder, which for me drew me towards it more. And I loved it so, much. I trained as much as I could with the ocular guys, the, the eye, the plastics, the facial. I spent years with Steven Perlman. I did the fellowship with Jacono in New York for both cosmetics and recon because he was using a lot of recon at the time. And then I did another fellowship for pediatric vascular birthmarks where we could take out these giant tumors from kids, but they weren't really malignant cancers. So, for me it was the best of all worlds. I got to do my tumor surgery, but it wasn't a tumor that was killing anybody, so, I wasn't crying. And that was I, how I got into that. And then I came back to Beverly Hills and I did that for a bit. And then everything went cosmetic, not by choice, just demand of what was around me and popularity. And I became pretty much all cosmetic. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, That's really interesting because number one, you went through three fellowships and most go through one at the most. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? And you two of those fellowships were with top facial plastic surgeons on Park Avenue in New York. Did you ever want to move to New York, or, or you always knew you were going to go back to California? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: No, I, became a New Yorker, you know, I was there for, for a while, so, I started walking faster, talking faster. My patience diminished over time. So, I became a New Yorker and I thought I wanted to stay there, actually. But my family's out here in California and I'm addicted to outdoors and boating and racing cars. And so, I raced boats, cars, and I was like a ski patrol and for me it was hard to do that in New York. And I think towards like my sixth year or something, I said, you know, if I spend one more winter here, I'm going to lose my mind. So, I'm, I like, you know, I, I, I like seasons, but I have a favorite one. And it's this, it's like, Summer, spring. That's my favorite season. So, I, that's why LA is better for me. Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. How big of a stepping stone was it for you to hang around with two top, well, three top surgeons in their fields for you to get where you were going? Like how imperative was that to you? Or, or was it valuable? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: It was, it was super valuable. You learn to really just go after the best of the best. And I didn't really realize that in the beginning because I thought everybody was great and I was very optimistic. And after a while of hanging out, you know, a while hanging out with people who were at the top of their game, you start to realize they're different than others and they tell you different things and they're giving you different advice than 95% of doctors that you were listening to. And at first, you're like, wow, this is unique. And then after a while you realize why it is. They see things differently and I see things differently and that's why we always got along. So, for me it helped not just. Teach me what they knew, but teach me the ways to learn. So, I would actually go follow not just them, but I'd go follow other surgeons. So, all my vacations for years, I didn't take a vacation for, for many years. They would be like a real vacation. It would be a vacation to go visit a doctor, watch them, you know, the best in every field and just keep watching. And even when I was in residency, when most of the residents were burnt out after their 16-hour shifts, I would still go work. And it's not that I felt like I was a workaholic, I wasn't like a nerd or anything. I was still partying. But I went and did extra shifts and I would do it with Perlman. I would do it with Gary Lely with a bunch of other, you know, people in New York and the plastics guys like Sherman and lab Bruna and just Dan Baker. I visited. Like I, I'd visit everybody I possibly could. And New York was amazing because everybody's there. It's like Beverly Hills, you know, tons of people are there. So, I got to learn so, much. And then I take trips and every time I took a vacation, I go visit somebody somewhere. Catherine Maley, MBA: But, so, now you're, you're ready to leave New York. You're going to Beverly Hills, but this was eight and a half years ago. It was already uber competitive in Beverly Hills. How did you have the wherewithal or the gall, or the courage to open up shop in Beverly Hills? And did you join somebody else? Did you go straight out on your own? What was that like when you got to Beverly Hills? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Well, I've always been oblivious to those things, so, it worked out in my favor. I just kind of moved back and did my thing. I didn't really care about Competition ever. I've, I've been in competitions my whole life with racing and things like that, of, of different sorts. But I was never competitive with the other people. I just kind of just wanted to be better. So, when I moved back, it wasn't a big deal. Beverly Hills, when you look at the market, actually, it's the opposite of what most people think. It's, it's more patients. There are more patients around. There's plenty for everybody. And I've never been a competitive person, so, it didn't bother me. And in LA you do hear a lot of that, and when I came back, I asked a lot of doctors for advice and the competitive ones told me, maybe you should move somewhere else. They said, maybe, maybe, you know, we're full over here. Consider going to Santa Barbara. Consider going. And I heard that from a lot of people and it kind of sucked because I really wanted their advice and I'm moving there anyways. And it would be great if they, they helped, but many of them weren't open to it. And after you'd go on in practice for a while, you realize that you were just talking to, you know, not to be mean, but the mediocre people and the mediocre people. They worry so, much about competition because they have nothing to offer. So, they're just the same as everybody else. Whereas even if you have a better personality, you're already a step ahead because, you know, doctors aren't that vibrant, they don't have that much personality. So, just a good personality, you're already ahead. You don't have to worry about competition so, much. And then on top of that, if you have any kind of like talent, insight, good taste, that kind of stuff, you're also ahead. So, it doesn't really matter for, for the people who are trying to excel and improve all the time, it's actually a better place to be because the volume is so, much higher. So, I was able to accelerate really quickly. You know, it's something that takes another doctor 10 to 20 years to get their volume I was doing in one year. And you just learn quickly that way. So, being, and I, and I actually tell this to the residents and fellows that we train, I say, you know what? Live wherever you want to live, you're going to be fine. I would just tell them, the one thing to realize is being in an academic establishment, even though you want to be academic, is going to slow you down. And being in a small city is going to slow you down just because you can't get the exposure that you want. Whereas being in a big city private practice, which is not what I wanted, I wanted it to be academic, but, and I still am academic, but I'm not an academic center. But being in a big city, you have so, many patients and they all come to you. You could work day and night. And I did, and I worked day and night for about six and a half, seven years until I got a little heart arrhythmia and then I had to slow down. So, I was working 16-hour days, six days a week. I was working Sundays too. And it was momentum, you know, I just had fun with it and I kept going and at some point, my body forbade me from doing that anymore. It said, you have to stop. It wasn't a mental choice, it was an exhaustion type of decision where I just had to, so, I've, I've slowed down now. I'm about four days a week in the past year, and mental clarity is returned. So, it's kind of nice. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good. So, when you got to Beverly Hills though, did you, Rent a spot, lease a spot Bill, do a build out? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? How did you enter the marketplace? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: I contacted every single doctor I could find. And the way you find them is on US World and news report. You go and type in plastic surgeon, dermatologist, whatever name, particular vicinity, vicinity, and you, you cold call. You actually just call their office or email them and say, Hey, like, do you want a junior in your practice? Have you considered it? And that's what someone else told me to do. It didn't work out in the academic centers. Even though I was a specialist, a super specialist in pediatric surgery and birthmarks, they didn't want me because the academic centers are more competitive than private practices and groups are. They are, it's, it's a lot of diplomacy. It's kind of it, it, it gets a little dirty, kind of like government, you know? It's, it's, it's, it's not super different. And I, I saw that and I got very lucky. There's a doctor here named David Hop, who is like an angelic, amazing plastic surgeon. And Catherine Wong Begovic, who's another plastic surgeon out here, said, you know what? I'm leaving his office. He's such a sweet guy. Go talk to him. Maybe you can rent from him. Mm-hmm. And I went in, he said, I don't want any contract. I don't want anything. My handshake will do. You move in, you rent. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, no, I don't want anything from you. You just pay the rent and that's it. No percentages, no nothing. And I'm like, wow, who is this guy? So, I moved into this tiny little office. It was perfect for me. And he gave me the office most of the time. He, he was kind of phasing out of practice and trying to do more stuff outside. And I moved into a place where I had a surgery center in my hallway so, I would never have to leave because when I trained in New York, I saw how it is when you get busy and you just don't have time to leave if you want to be efficient. And I'm. Obsessed with efficiencies. So, for me it was amazing. And that way my overhead was low and every single penny I got, I would just put back into the practice and growing it and for staff and for patients and all that kind of stuff. And I didn't care about money. I didn't care about money for a very long time, actually even till like probably a year ago. I didn't care at all. I just, I never looked at my bank account and my dad started managing everything. And I would do cases for free, I'd do it for half price, I'd do it for whatever. I didn't care because for me a price doesn't establish your value. You know, you telling people I'm worth a hundred thousand doesn't mean you're worth anything. It's like giving yourself a nickname. You know, you could tell people call me like Bugsy and nobody's going to think like you're actually Bugsy Siegel, you know? But people do that. And so, I just put everything back. I didn't care about. What I had in my bank account and I kept growing and I grew very rapidly. So, within about six months, I felt the pressure of the space. And after about a year, year and a half, I started looking for a new space. And I was very scared, but I went and looked and I thought, okay, let me build out something like this. I ended up building out something like this and I had to, because my patients were coming in at six in the morning, they were coming in at 10 at night and there would be 15 of them waiting in the hallway because I was doing a lot of injectables too. And it got to the point where we had, you know, those restaurant pagers, Uhhuh, that people, we used to give them pagers to say like, just go shopping at Neman Marcus. We'll page you when we can fit you in and come back. That's a great idea. Yeah. Yes, everybody. Yes. I built out and I'm in the place that I call now, Beverly Hills Center, Uhhuh, and I have a little spa next door and I've got, you know, a nice facility with a big patio and everything works out for me. And I'm still have, even though it's a huge space, it's not enough space. And so, I'm trying to break off and I'm opening to other clinics to do other things. Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. The clinics would be nearby but not attached. Is that the point? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. So, I already opened a spa next door probably six years ago, and for the Healing Center that I was doing. And then now I'm opening this place called E Turn, which is an energy boosting center down the street. And then in West Hollywood I'm opening a place called Cupid Lips, which is going to be a lip center, which is like lip products. So, the front is all retail. When you walk in it's like Sephora, it looks like, and you walk in. It's just beautiful, all retail lip products, every kind. And then the back is my injectors who do like fixing the lips, making them look more natural, dissolving little filler, little laser wrinkles deflation, all that kind of stuff. And then once a week I'll have a surgeon there who does the lip lift. For now, I'm going to work there on Fridays, cause I have Fridays off. But then I'm going to have somebody else come in and, and do that so, he can have a nice, you know, someone else that can do lip lifts other than me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, you, you have a lot of profit centers now that you didn't have before. I think you also do hair transplant. Do you do hair transplant? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah, so, the Healing Center that we had that's, or aura Spa. Mm-hmm. Moving those hyperbarics and l e d and IV therapies to Eter. And then I'm turning that into just the hair dedicated center, which we call Beverly Hills' Hair Group, because we've had that mixed into my regular practice for a long time, where we do a lot of f U e, so, follicular unit extraction transplantation, which is what this is. And then we do a lot of P R P and we have a treatment called fat hair, which is. P h a t. It's platelet hybrid. What great name. Yeah. And it's, it's the strongest way to regrow or stop hair loss out of anything, out of the PRP A-Cell, stem cell treatments, exosomes, any of those things. It's the strongest. And I became obsessed with figuring this out over about five years. So, I was doing the treatments, not, not for free, but pretty much for free. It was like at a loss for me because I had to figure it out. And then once I figured it out, what the best treatment was, I got bored with it. And I said, I don't want to do it anymore. So, I handed it off to a couple people that I trained and, and they do it now. I kind of lose interest in things if they plateau. So, I like to create things and if, if I'm not creating, I feel redundant and boring, I'm, I'm not a person who can tell a joke twice it, I kind of feel cheesy. Doing that. So, for me to do the same surgery over and over again, it, I feel, I feel like an idiot. So, like, I can't do it. And it's the way I cook too. I can't make the same recipe more than once. I feel like I'm just copying myself. And it's boring. You're not, you know, you're, you're nothing special. Yeah. So, if I make a new recipe, I make it just once. Never again. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, you know, some doctors call it AADD or something or AD. So, for you it's just boredom. So, that's great. I like the way you've re-defined that. Yeah. Did you trademark the fat hair? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: I think so. Yeah. I think we, that's amazing. That is such a great name. Yeah. So, so, we did fat hair and fat lips. Mm-hmm. So, different things. And it's the same treatment, which is nano-fat with P R P, and it's a specific way of doing it. But for hair loss it from our study we had 90% of patients had it slowed or stopped their hair loss. 30% of patients had some visible regrowth within before and after photos. And then for fat lips, it's for deflation of the area around the mouth. Especially like white women as they get older, they start to deflate here and, on the sides, and you can actually inject it with nano fat p r p and it rehydrates the mass naturally without putting a filler in there. So, it's not technically a volumizer as a spacer, it is a stimulator that draws in water. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'm certainly glad you're inventing all this. Keep it up because I need all of that. Yeah, that's fantastic. Now, do you feel like you're overextended at all? Because when you, I've just watched some practices add in more moving parts and that's more staff more overhead more management of people. How is that going? Because that can get out of hand, right? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah, I would love to have less staff. We have my, my center is probably like 27, 28 people just running mainly my stuff. And then we have Robert Cohen, who's a plastic surgeon who I work with. So, they run for both of us. But it's mainly, mainly for me, it is a lot of staff. It's just they run themselves so, it works out okay. And I have an amazing manager who like helped organize everything, so, I don't really have to spend too much energy running the practice. So, it doesn't affect me so, much. And then the aftercare that we use, my, my dad runs and it's 50 nurses or so, over there, but I don't have anything to do with that. So, I don't have to do much. And then the, the, the, so, you understand the two days that I took off a week, I know it's, for most people, that's like 16 hours for me that's 36 hours. Cause it's, I, you know, 30 it was, yeah, it was only like 16, 18-hour workday. So, it's like 34 hours, 32 hours extra I have a week. So, it's, it is not too bad, but I do feel sometimes like maybe I should just back off and do something else. But for me I would rather get everything done in a short period of time and then, Retire early and move on to something else. So, I'll go become like a boat racer again or something. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, see that I, I, lately I've been asking because a lot of us are getting older, like, what's your exit strategy for you? You're still just, you're just starting, or I, or maybe you're not, maybe your vision is, hit it hard now for a shorter amount of time and then walk away earlier. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Is that what I thought? Yeah, it, it has turned to that a little bit. I thought I was going to operate at the same pace forever. And then I realized that people some people who enter your life in plastic surgery world aren't so, nice. People who enter your life when you become more successful aren't so, nice. And I wanted start to distance myself a little bit because I was always the empath and always the person who said like, please come in. I trust you. You know, with, with patience, with friends, with everything. And you start to get burned a few times. And this is a lesson I learned from Jacono over and over again because he's the. The nicest person in the world to just get screwed constantly. And it's happening to me now. So, I decided that I want to have the ability to retire at a younger age. So, I'm 41 now, and I want to have the ability to retire by the time I'm 45. Not that I'm going to retire, but that I can say in my mind that I'm retired. And then when a patient tries to extort me or threaten me or things like that, or, you know, you, I, I've, I've had patients where I said, I won't operate on you because you can tell there's something wrong with them or they don't need it, and then they start trying to threaten you and things like that. So, I just want the ability to distance myself quickly and that'll come with, in my mind, it'll come with the ability to, to retire. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Even that's such a shame too because most people start out super nice. They're kind, everyone's happy, and then you get burned a few times and you start getting so, skeptical and you, you get that that thing on your shoulder. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? But if you looked at it as a compliment, because you're getting grief because you're rattling other people like the competitors. So, you know, take it as compliment. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. I actually went through a phase where other doctors in the beginning, because I grew so, rapidly, I kind of ignored. I ignored it. It didn't bother me too much. But they were saying a lot of negative things because they weren't happy about it or they weren't used to somebody. Being better than them at a younger age. So, it was a bit of a hit to the ego. I don't know what it was, but something, but they, they said a lot of negative things. They would make up things. They said, I, like s people would make up rumors that I sank my boat for insurance. They would say like crazy, weird things. Yeah. But now it got to a level where if they say something negative about me to a patient, like they sound like an idiot. So, I'm in a good place. It's, I don't hear anything negative anymore. And it's, I think part of it is out of mutual respect amongst all of us. We're all friends, but the other is you have to be an idiot to insult me because like, my results are pretty good. So, it's, it's, it's become a really nice world as far as like colleagues go. So, colleagues and other doctors are super, super nice anywhere around the country, even if I have a patient with a complication. Mm-hmm. I'll say really, really nice things. So, I'm, I'm super happy with how it's gone with those. And then in my own practice, Since I've found better ways to filter out patients, all my patients are super nice. The level of extortion has gone down like 90%, 99%. It, it's, it's, I'm in a very happy place at this point. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait, we're all ears. What are you doing to filter them out? Because that has be, that's increasingly becoming a bigger issue. How are you doing it? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. Well, one is the approach. So, you have to think to yourself, you know, I'm going to say no to some patients that I should actually do surgery on. And you have to be willing to lose a couple patients who might be good. Because it's like raising your threshold and you're saying I have a cutoff. When I look at these photos or I look at how someone talks, where I'm just not going to operate on them. I'm not even going to take the chance, even though they might be a nice person because they said something a little off. Mm-hmm. And when you do that, you filter out probably eight bad people and two good people. But for me, I would lose eight good people just to save myself from one bad one. Because one bad one, ooh, it'll, it'll ruin you. You, you can have 300 good ones and one bad one, and one will come after you and destroy you. So, that's the first thing. But the way I actually went about it was instead of having just consultations blindly saying, come into the office and we'll see you. Or instead of just raising my price, that didn't make any difference. We started raising the price a little bit just to filter out people, and we saw it really made no difference as far as getting rid of the aggressive crazies. So, now what we do is we have messages that go back and forth. The staff talks to them. They need to get photos from the patient to see what they look like. Meaning, do they look like a nice person? Do they look like a mean person? That's one thing. And you can't always tell. Sometimes ptosis makes you look like a mean person. But then you look to see if they actually need something. You know, you don't want to waste their time, waste your time if they don't need something, or if you can't help them, or if you should refer it to somebody else. And then you want to look to see if they've overdone stuff or if they're dysmorphic because. If they enter your life, it's going to be very hard to fix those people and you can't satisfy them sometimes then we look at the story. So, we have them write us an email saying, why do you want to do this? What are you having done? And what doctors have you been to? If they don't tell you everything you're risking? And I'm not willing to risk for somebody saying, well, I don't want to tell you what doctor I went to. I'm like, why don't you want to tell me what doctor you went to? I want to know. I want to know what techniques they use. I want to know, I want to be prepared, and the fact that you're not telling me scares me a little bit. So, these things alone have filtered out a large amount of patients. And then once we look at the pictures, I glance through them and I can tell in two seconds what I want to do to somebody. So, I say what I would like to do, and if they're in line with that, we know we're on the same page. And then the coordinators give them the cost of what it would be. At that point, so, they don't come in and kind of get sticker shock or they can go to my colleague Ali Raspberry, who works in the office also. So, that's how we've done it and it's worked out really, really well. And we've put our consulting fee not in the high range, not in the low range. So, we have it just in the middle because I don't care about 500 bucks. Like I'm not trying to make money off of consultations. You know, it's, it's not for that reason. You want it high enough where people will kind of respect the time and not just try to talk to you for no reason. Because I don't have, I wish I had more time. I don't, you know, I used to have all the time in the world to talk to people. Now I'm really limited and I'm stressing and it's taking away from my own life. So, I need to limit how much consultation I'm doing. And then I found, you know, if you charge 1000, 2000 for a consult, I don't see it make. Difference. It just feels more offensive. Like you're going to tell someone like a thousand dollars consult fee and they haven't met you, haven't spoken with you. So, 500 seems to be kind of this like soft area and I really don't even care about the 500. I give it back to people if they, if I tell them I don't want to operate on you. It makes no difference for, for me. But we've actually also told them that it's non-refundable because if you say it's going towards the consult fee or towards the surgery and it's going towards fillers or towards your treatment, you think that's drawing them in. All it's doing is they look at it like a deposit that they're going to get back if they decide not to do surgery or if they decide not to do something. And you're a bank and already a bunch of, we have patients who like look at you as like, oh, I have an investment there and I'm going to withdraw my money and I did surgery, but you know my money's still sitting there. I'm going to get it back. So, saying that it's non-refundable has helped too. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so, interesting because we've often used that to soften the blow because, well now people are a lot more used to paying a consult fee, but it was still fairly new just a few years ago. And especially when it was getting up to like 300, 400, 500. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? So, we would say by the way, to, to reserve your time with Dr. Smith because he is so, busy, we do take a credit card for a $500 deposit and it does go towards your surgical procedure. So, we used it to soften the flow. Yeah, but you're saying don't bother because you're — Benjamin Talei, MD: Oh, it's only going to lead to trouble with some patients. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. If somebody's going to pay 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 for a facelift, or 75 or whatever it is, mm-hmm. 500 really becomes inconsequential. And if you want to give it back to them, give it back to them, like put it into the fee, but just have the disclaimer beforehand that they're not going to have it back. And it takes away that conversation takes away the headache and you can put it back in there. So, we actually apply it sometimes where people ask, oh, can you apply it? We say, yeah, of course. You know, we don't care. We just pop it in there. It doesn't matter. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. What, what would you say is your biggest challenge right now, the business side of, of plastic surgery? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? What would be your biggest challenge? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: The business side? Nothing. I mean, there's the difficulty in my practice is really trying to like, schedule people and work with cancellations. Because when you get a cancellation on a long case, it kind of ruins your day. So, I've found that it's a bit out of my control in the way that I run the practice. That would be my only real difficulty because I'm not the aggressive person to say, okay, someone's got to a cancel two weeks before, let me charge them an exorbitant fee, or let me tell them they're not getting half their money. You know, things like that. And if they're a chronic counselor, I'll just not do their surgery. You know, they don't, they, they, they don't respect our relationship, so, I don't want to do their surgery if they keep canceling on me. It's and it's fine, you know, it's like someone keeps canceling on a date. Every time you go out, they're flaking on you. You're like, okay, well I'm just not going to date you. So, it's not a financial thing. But that's the only thing that is a bit of a struggle, which I don't really know how to navigate because I don't want to become the harsh financial person. I'd rather still stay kind of on the soft side and financially I'm fine. You know, I accept that there's going to be losses throughout the year anyways, and you can't look at things like you're going to stare at every dollar coming in out, because then your brain is always business. It's not medicine and I just don't want to go there. So, that, but that's the only difficulty that I really have business wise. The other is the amount of staff that I have. I would love to have lower overhead. I would love to have, you know, all that if you, if you knew my overhead. It's insane. And like patients don't realize it, they don't realize that, my staff doesn't realize it. You know, they, they, they all want raises all the time. Of course. And I want to give it to them, but my overhead's like over 500,000 a month for one doctor. It's, it's a lot of overhead. And it just takes that for 30 people, for supplies, for the rent, for God knows what that we do, but, right. Catherine Maley, MBA: And you have this one manager who handles all this for you and your dad helps a little on the side. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. My, my dad now we moved him out of the office. He's got some gambling issues, so, we're, he's kind of out we're still very close, but, but he doesn't deal in the office anymore. But he was helping me for a long time. But he wasn't great at managing the people in the office to tell them what to do. We were both very easygoing and we would just say, okay, you know, you figure it out, you're independent. And when we brought in a manager, ultimately that caused a lot of friction because they were all used to doing things on their own. So, I brought in a manager, and then I also brought in a financial controller. So, I have Ivy, who's my financial controller. She deals with everything because there's a lot of in and out. And I, I'm somebody who does not look in my bank account. You have to understand, like even to this day coincide even now, you don't, even now, if I have to go in and do a transfer to like somebody who like, you know, worked on my car and I don't feel like telling Ivy, I'll sign into my app and I'm like, oh, that's low, or, oh, that's high. Yeah, I, I just don't like to it's not something I'm super interested in. Even to this day. I do have a financial goal in mind now that I never had before. So, I do have to get to a certain point where I can say I can have the ability to retire, but that's the first financial goal I've ever had, ever in my whole life. Because we grew up with no money. So, and my dad and my mom always had us comfortable. So, we didn't care. It wasn't there, there was no correlation between money and comfort. There was a correlation between money and cars. Like, I want cars. That's, that was the only correlation I ever had in jet skis. So, I would measure things in my mind in jet skis, but between money and happiness, money and comfort, there was never a correlation because we didn't have money and we were fine. And you go through med school, no money, you go through residency, 400,000 of debt. You know, I had full riots through med school and undergrad, so, I didn't have any debt. Once I went into residency, I'm in New York, I wanted to go have fun, I started taking loans and I went through seven years. So, there's fi 400,000 of debt that I had at the end of that. But aside from that, never had a financial thought about where I needed to be until this past year. And I said, you know what? I got to retire at some point or have the ability to. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Holy cow. Now we have to talk about marketing because here's, I've watched you, I've watched you for a few years now, and you've done 3000 lip lifts. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah, over probably. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I heard you say that once at a medical conference and I, I said, did I hear that right? Did he say 3000 or 300? Then I just saw you recently in San Diego and you said it again and I said, did he say 3000? Like, how is that even possible? And you've only been in practice for eight and a half years and you do a whole bunch of facelifts every year too. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: So, and I was doing noses and I was doing 20, 30, 40 injectables a day. So, it's a, it was a lot. I was at a higher, faster pace, but as far, yeah, if you're asking how, you get there or how I got there, it was it's, it's a, it's like a popularity contest and you know, most doctors don't have the mind for learning these things because none of us are good at marketing. It's like, it's rare we're going to come out and be good at business or marketing. I'm, I'm terrible at business. I'm great at creating things, I'm great at being creative, doing things, you know, whatever it is. That's what I like to do. I like to create and get better at things. One of those things was marketing and. Marketing, you can do it in a cheesy way or you can do it in an organic way that just fits you as a person. And I like to do things my way. So, I always did things like that where, let's say I did a Cross-Country I did a dome a domestic violence fundraiser. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't marathon like other people did. It doesn't suit me. I, I don't like running for money. It makes no sense. So, I organized a cross country drive where I threw parties and I drove in a Mini Cooper and I went from New York to Miami. I went 23 states, 15 parties, and we just partied the whole time and had car meet. And that's the way I did it. So, for me, when, because I do it that way, it becomes fun. And I'm not doing it as a business thing. I'm not doing it. I'm doing it to be successful. And I like being successful. I like achieving things. So, with my marketing, I realized early on, this is mainly from Jacono. You have to touch as many people as possible. You have to be in people's lives. And the place, and the time that this hit me was in my first year and second year where I'd have friends. Who I'm friends with on Facebook, I've known for 20 years, asked me, Hey, who should I go to for a rhinoplasty? I'm like, what? What are you talking about? I am a revision rhinoplasty specialist and I'm one of your best friends. How do you not know this? And I was shocked that my own friends didn't know specifically what I did. And instead of being offended by it at that point, I realized, wait, that's because I'm not enough in people's lives. I'm just working all the time. They have no idea what I'm actually doing. So, I realized you just have to permeate as much as possible and to be resilient with fluctuations in economy and trends and anything that happens, you have to permeate everything. So, you can't just be. Word of mouth. You can't just be Google; you also have to be YouTube. You also have to be Instagram. You also have to do this, that you have to do a million different things. And it's sort of like when you see a billionaire succeed, they didn't succeed because they had one financial venture. Usually it's, they probably had a hundred and a bunch of them failed, and a few of them were successful. And that's how it goes, and that's how marketing is. So, you have to constantly be thinking about it and doing it and putting yourself in people's lives however you do it. But if you do it in a cheesy way, you will probably get tired of it. It's not fun. And people will see that you're a cheese ball. So, I never did it that way. I did it organically and everything I did was kind of fun. And I started having fun with posting things on Instagram. And Instagram was like a blessing to, to all of us. It really just put all of us out there and you can start talking about your procedures without, you know, needing to publish in a, in an article where some megalomaniac is trying to keep you from publishing new things because it doesn't match what they want. And so, Instagram was like a blessing really. But I'm all over the place. So, I've, I've done a lot of things and that's why in eight years or eight and a half years, or at that point, it was more fun when I was popular at two, three years because I was like 32 years old and I was lecturing amongst the top guys and I was being invited to all these conferences. It was more of a novelty at that point where they're like, oh my god, this guy's so, young now. It's kind of like, okay. He's kind of young, he's 41. You know, they invited me to be a professor in Mexico, so, I'm a professor in in in in, in Monterey, in Lama, which is one of their top plastic surgery programs. And they were nervous bringing me in as a facial plastic, which is a big deal because they're very competitive. It's very old school there. And they were even more nervous saying he's young because he is like 50. And then they brought me in and gave me the reception and they're like, we can't believe we brought in somebody so, young and also official plastics. You're barely even 50 years old. I'm like, I'm 39. And they're shocked. So, it was more fun. The younger I was. Now I'm actually like at a respectable age, I think, to be where I am. But either way to get there that quickly, I had to do a lot of surgeries and a lot of putting myself out there and doing as much as possible at all times. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I have to go back to the 3000 lip lifts. I don't even know 3000 people. How did you, where did you find all these people? And do you do it incredibly fast? And is, is it a special technique? I know you have that you, you have a trademark too, but can you just explain how did you get there? Because I've often said to some of the new, the young up and coming facial plastics, I say, why don't you just pick something like lip lift? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Why don't you just get really good at lift lifts? You'll go after the younger market, they'll age with you, and then you can get their bleph and facelift later and they're like, oh no, it'll leave a scar. They're going to, they're not going to be happy with it. And I think, I'll bet, I'll bet you don't think that way, do you? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Well, I have a few ways that I think about it. So, First of all, as far as like niche specialization. Yeah. I tell people not to jump into picking it to become successful. It'll pick you like you'll, it'll, the, the demand will come after whatever your natural talent happens to be. So, you have to really pick what you like doing and ultra-focus on a few things, become really good at them, and then you'll start to narrow down once your taste develops. Because in the beginning you don't know what's good or bad, and the more you do, you start to realize your own failures. You start to realize where you excel, where you're better than other people and you keep excelling and then people start coming to you more for it when they see your results are better and better anyways. And you do end up becoming a specialist or super specialist if you're someone who hyperfocus is because you can't deal with not being the best in something. So, at some point that'll happen naturally and organically anyways. But the lip lifts in the beginning, I didn't go chasing them. What happened was I, my first lip lift I did was on a really hot friend of mine who in New York, this girl Anastasia, who was just gorgeous, and she wanted me to do a lip lift and I learned how to do lip lifts from Andrew whom at that time he didn't do a ton, but he was doing more than most people. Mm-hmm. And I did it on her and it came out nicely. And she's beautiful. And I posted her photo and all of a sudden, like another beautiful girl camp, another beautiful girl camp. And it became all of these young girls where classically, since 1970s it was 60-year old's, 70-year old's getting it for an elongated fil trim and lack of tooth show. Mm-hmm. Whereas now a younger girl can get it for improved balance, sexiness, shape, all this kind of stuff. As I did more and more in my first year, I. I quickly try to, I'm always trying to change something, so, I quickly changed it to a deep, plain approach, which nobody had described before. And to this day, people argue who, which I've done 3000 plus now and I've done, God knows how many other lip procedures and how many lip injectables. Like I know the lip anatomy and I know it very, very well to this day. People still argue with me, people who have done like a hundred, they argue with me about what the lip anatomy is. And I'm like, dude, I've seen it in every possible shape and form and I know it better than you. But they still argue with me either way. There is a deep plan. And I realized this early on as I tried to dissect deeper and do what I was doing in the facelift that Andrew had thought and I started releasing and I saw, wow, you know, the muscle function is better. It's doing this, it's doing that. They less scarring. And I started doing on more and more young people. The young people are what set me off because yeah, it hadn't been done and or at least not repetitive, there was Randall Hayworth who is amazing and he is in Beverly Hills and he was doing a bunch but he was the only one really doing it on young patients. And once people saw this, it spread in social media. And social media wasn't that big back in 2014. So, 20 13, 20 14, like Kim Kardashian had like the most in the world and she had like 50,000 followers. Oh wow. Right. So, it wasn't big back then, but enough, that word got to Europe. So, people in Poland, I had quoting me, people in Germany, people in different areas were quoting me and I didn't really even know about it. And that's how the modified upper lip lift, which is the deep plane, kind of grew. And I didn't publish it until a long time later because I didn't think anybody cared. And then I kept getting requests to lecture about it and I said, okay, well here's the publication on how I do it. Teaching people is the best way to learn. You teach, you think things through, you start talking about it and you realize that you don't understand everything and you need to understand more to teach them better. Then they tell you things because you talk to them and you learn more. The other thing that happens is you realize your failures. Because I would teach somebody, they'd go back to Australia, they'd go back to Germany, they'd go back to Spain, and then they'd send me pictures afterwards and it would be a total failure. Yeah. And I look at it, I'm like, shit. Like, what did I do wrong? You know, it's like your child's going to jail. It's like, what did I do wrong here that my kid's in prison? And I thought about it and I said, you know, it's not them. It's not their lack of talent, it's my lack of explanation. They're going into a new territory. Mm-hmm. So, I try to find a mathematical way to explain it, because doctors are not artistic. Doctors are not super insightful. Doctors are not tasteful. Most people aren't tasteful. Right. People have common sense. Most people have common tastes. And that's not great taste. That's like average. So, I was trying to teach people this and I realized you can't give them those things. So, maybe I can make a mathematical equation that can be reproduced. And with that, I started going back and measuring all this things that I was doing to take down the numbers, look for a pattern. I'm good at finding patterns. And after like. Two months. I'm like, oh shit. I've been drawing this slope the whole time, and that's how I've been getting these results. And I started naming the lines. I realized there were last contention lines and all these patterns in the lip, and it started to come to me and I wrote the paper and I left it there. And two years later, it was like during Covid. I look at it and I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, it says Cupid, like I looked at the lines and they're named Central Peak Intermediate Diagonal. And that's what I was using to describe the doctors who were visiting me. I'm like, you have these relaxed, intentional lines. And so, I came up with the Cupid lift. Yeah. And it figured out the algorithm. So, now I have an algorithm which helps me teach people. And I have a couple more exciting things that I'm going to do with it very soon, which I like. I don't impress myself very often. I impress myself. I was like, that's a good one. So, I have a few things that I'm, I'm doing, I'm, I'm a little bored with the lip lift itself just kind of plateaued. I'm waiting for somebody else to take over the reins and teach me something, because now they have all the info. I've come up with new like nomenclature. In the article, I came up with words. I, I came up with the word Lego lobbyists. And it's a word now though, because they published it in a peer reviewed journal. What does. Lagos, it's the inability to close the mouth. Like the, you have Laos for the eye, you have Lago Labio for the lip, and when people lay down you get more tooth exposure because of the gravity and the change in the muscle function. Mm-hmm. So, either way, there's a bunch of stuff in there where I'm just waiting for somebody else to really comprehend it and them to take it to a point where I couldn't have, because I, I've thought enough about this, where I'm a little rigid now, I think. And I need somebody else to create something so, I can jump on their bandwagon and figure out what they're doing. But for now, I'm kind of plateaued. But this new algorithmic thing that I'm doing is very cool, which you'll know about it in a couple months. Catherine Maley, MBA: And so, you're taking that QPI theme and, and opening up retail shops? Like where, how far are you going with that? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: I want to open at least five locations and the, in the next couple years. And the whole idea is reproducibility and quality control. So, there was a company called Lifestyle Lift and Lifestyle Lift Of course. Yeah. Was. A mega company for marketing, but a total shit company for quality of quality. You know, you can go to an amazing surgeon like Kevin Saddi, who was doing this early on in his practice, and he's, you get lucky because you go to Kevin or you can go to like Joe Schmoe and he's never done a facelift ever. And they're forcing him to do it in two hours, which is what they used to do under local anesthesia. And you get this totally terrible scar filled facelift and they were misleading people. So, what I want to do is full quality control, which means I teach one surgeon in one city and completely like, watch them operate, get them to reproduce what I'm doing, which is easy now with my article. It like spells it out for you. Mm-hmm. And then open one in West Hollywood, which is opening next month. Miami, next Dallas, Toronto, Mexico City. I want to be Dubai, London, and Riyadh. And then I'll be happy, only focused on the lips. Only lips. Yeah. Yeah. You go in there and you get everything for lips. It could be a lip plumper, a lip a lip moisturizer, a lip filler, lip dissolver, lip, laser, lip, everything lip lift. And so, the cupid lift is going to be the surgery that we offer at Cupid Lips. We also have something called a Cupid Compendium, which is going to be a video library for people to learn because injectors come out starving for good injection technique and they don't have it. And I'm, I'm a I, I do a lot of teaching in the injection world, so, I'm going to do videos of myself teaching, but I'm also going to get the top injectors to make videos for me. Because I've done them favors, they got to do me a favor. So, I'm going to have them put their video in the compendium and we're going to give access to, to everybody to go use it. And I think it's going to help a lot cause they can watch it repeatedly rather than visiting somebody's office seeing it once and really not grasping it. So, I have a bunch of cubit themed things that are coming along with it and getting, including the Cupid calculator, which that's, that's what I'm working on. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's terrific. So, what advice would you give other surgeons, because it sounds like you're pretty entrepreneurial and most aren't, you know, and I can see why not though. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? When you're going to become a surgeon, you're fairly scientific, you're very analytical. It's not normal for you to also be entrepreneurial and creative and artistic and it is not normal. We're back to the normal. But where, where, where can, where do you see this industry going? Do you see doctors still going out of fellowship and opening up their own practices going entrepreneurial and trying to hook up with some kind of business and turn things into franchises? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Like what do you think about that? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Well, the, the, so, first question about my advice for people going into practice and then. This question about where it's going are two very different things. Very. Where it's going is changing a lot because you're always going to have private practice, you're always going to have the individual, you'll have academia. But what's happening now is private equity is getting into buying out practices. Now they're mostly interested classically in multiple group practices with insurance bases. So, they're doing ophthalmology, dermatology, that kind of stuff. Now they're looking at cosmetic because it's cash pay and, but you need replaceable parts. And where do you get that? Is med spas. So, they're really going after med spas. Yeah. So, the entrepreneurial business-minded surgeon which there are many of them actually, because you get a ton of sociopaths going into plastic surgery, then they all want money. So, there will be a bunch going into private equity for sure. As far as the people who want true success and meaning success in surgery as a surgeon those are like the people I train every day who come in and visit me. We have usually like four or five visitors every day in, in the operating room. And when they're younger, the first thing I try to tell them, I'm very harsh about it, and they think I'm an asshole. Sometimes they think I'm arrogant, but I I'm trying to teach them, and I'm trying to tell them, I go, listen, 95% of what you are learning and what you've heard from people will lead you to mediocrity 95%. And you have to, and they don't get it. And I say, what's the most commonly used filler in the world? And I say, what's the worst filler in the world? And they're like, oh, it's the same. What's the most commonly performed facelift in the world? It's mass cation. What's the worst facelift? It's mass cation. And I say, do you understand the pattern here? People are not that good. And so, and it's the sad reality. It is, it's plastic surgery is not evidence-based medicine. It is not like you're an internist and you have a consensus on what the best blood pressure medication is, and everybody just upgrades to that. It's not like that. It's a free for all. You can go do whatever you want and it's up to you and your insight and your taste and your reflection. You know, that's, that's really how it is. So, people have, there's a huge variety and then you fall back into high school where in high school you have 95% of people on this part of the curve, and you have 5% of that part of the curve. So, I try to teach them this is true reality, and you have to understand this. If you want to be the best, if 95% of people tell you this is how you start your practice, this is what you go do, this is how you do it. You hang your shingle, you do this, you do that. You start working for somebody and 5% of people like me tell you no, that is not what you do. You really want to listen to 95%, you're going to become just like them. You're going to be average. You're going to have that 10-year course where you have a successful practice after 10 years, 20 years after you're fully established. And you know, if you're fine with that, great. But if you're somebody who wants to be best of the best and really excel, then you can't follow those people. You have to follow the 5%. So, I try to teach them, I give them so, many examples until they really like clicks. But you have to follow that. And I say 5% because 5% it's a lot. And there are a lot of good people. And the same thing in finance world. Same thing in the real estate world. Same thing in every single world you go into, arts, anything. The top 5% are the outliers, not the full outliers, that's the 0.1%. But they're the outliers who lead the field and who progress then neither. 95% are the morons. And you have to look at it that way because you cannot listen to the 95% and do what they do. You can listen to it and learn from it. And then go do your own thing. And that's really what I try to teach them and try to teach them that in plastic surgery, do not believe a single thing that you read in an article. Are these AR articles published are fully biased. They're by people who they're all opinion pieces by the way. They're not like evidence-based medicine and plastic surgery. There are a few articles that are like evidence-based. The rest are fully opinion. And the opinion was different in 1970 than it is now. And there's a lot of lies that are repeated over and over and over again. I teach them, have you ever heard the word muscle tightening? Have you ever heard the word smash tightening? And they're like, yeah. I go, have you ever seen a muscle tighten? Is it possible? It's not even possible. And it's been repeated so, many times, smash tightening. What are you talking about? I show them, I go, look at this mask. It's a hydrator fatty layer. How are you going to concentrically tighten fat? What are you going to do? You're you, you're going to melt it. Right? It atrophies, you lose volume. It's the opposite. But it's been parroted and repeated so, many times people think that this stuff is real and that's why plastic surgery doesn't progress. That's why plastic surgeons make weird looking people. Mm-hmm. Over and over again. That's why plastic surgeon has a bad reputation. So, I try to teach them, don't believe everything. It's not true. Even though people repeat it a million times, they repeat a million times that you need to extend the skin elevation past the last wrinkle on your neck to get a good skin improvement. And then I show them a picture of me having only elevated up to here and I have improvements all the way across the chest better than they've had in any photo in their lives. My worst photo is better than their best photo and they still argue. So, I try to teach the residents and the fellows coming in and say, listen, accept the reality. It is what it is. If you want to excel, listen to everybody, but follow the top 5%. And don't argue with the 95%. Let them do what they want to do. I've argued enough in presentations where I have to get up on stage and I say, I disagree with everything that was just said. Yeah, I've heard you. So, you've heard this. And it's because I'm there to teach. I'm there to teach the best of the best. I want people to improve. I'm not there to teach them how to be mediocre. You know, they can be mediocre on their own if they're, they want my time. I'm there to teach them how to be the best of the best of what I want to be. Maybe I'm not the best, but I think I am. So, I want to teach them, you know, whatever I think is best. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I find that so interesting because you have beliefs that are strong, you know but you know, you're the best. But did you always know you were, or you were, or you wanted to be the best and then you just worked harder at it, or you were willing to? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: No, no, no. When I started, I did not think I was the best. Now, If you look at my photos, it's not arrogance. It's just like, okay, show me someone who's better than me. And if they are, I want to go do it. And so, that's what I kept doing actually. So, I kept looking at other people's photos and if it was better than my photo and something, I would either learn from them and get there or I'd refer out. So, that's actually how the evolution happened in my practice, was I would refer everything out where I wasn't the best. I'd be embarrassed if somebody comes to me and they want a whatever kind of procedure, if I'm going to give them less of a result than someone else would, I failed. So, I send it to somebody else, I don't care. I'm like, I just want them to get the best result because it reflects better on me. I want to be like a good surgeon and I want to look at my before and after's and be proud. And if I can't, you know, because people think that what makes you a good surgeon is caring about the patient. That makes you a caring doctor. It doesn't make you the best surgeon. What makes you the best surgeon is you looking at your "before and after's" and not being happy with them until they're better than everybody else's. And you're not being biased about it. You're looking at every single photo. You're not lying to yourself. You're seeing things and you say, ah, okay, I finally got it. Versus, Nope, that needs to be better. That needs to be better. And that's what I do in every single before and after photo. So, patients come back and I tell them, I go, we have to go fix something. And they're like, no, I'm happy. It's great. What are you talking about? I'm like, no, no. You have this little thing here. We have to go fix it. I'm not doing it for them at all. I'm doing it. So, my picture can be great. And I can look at my picture and show my mom and say, mom, look what I did. You know? So, that's, that's how I've always been. And I think that is what makes me excel is that I, I love patients. They're fantastic, but I don't do it for them. I do it for me. Hmm. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really big tip that you're, you're giving there. That's a different perspective. Good for you. Regarding the photos of patients, you get a lot of photos and a lot of vid video patient testimonials and you know, I hear over and over again, my patients are so, private and I think Okay. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? If that's true, how is Dr. Talei able to do it in Beverly Hills? Do you have a secret for getting these people to approve before and after photos and showing full on face? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. Well, the secret is you have to do probably 20 times more surgery than most people do, which is how I got all my before and after photos. I was operating six days a week. Mm-hmm. And I would get 10% of patients giving me photos in facelift and maybe 5% in rhinoplasty. Now with rhinoplasty, it wasn't feeding my ego enough. It hurt me that people weren't letting me use the photos because they let me use it much more in aging face. And that plus my neck problems have kind of. Giving me a distaste for rhinoplasty, even though I was like, I spent my whole life becoming good at rhinoplasty. But the aging face stuff, they share a little bit more now. It's still not that many compared to whom I actually operate on. If you see like the number of people I operate on, if I, if I do six facelifts a week, I'll get one photo out of it maybe. And then videos, I'll get out of 30 facelifts, I'll get maybe one video. And I never pressure patients to do it. Just when I take their before and after photos, I show it to them and I say, would you like me to keep this private or can I share it? And that's the easiest way. Some people do it beforehand. Now there are other practices who have a heavy TikTok influence or have a really heavy Instagram influence. And they have a younger population who is very into social media. They automatically like to share. So, they come in already like saying like, I want to be part of this community where all these patients are sharing. So, if you have a bunch of patients, Talking all the time and sharing their experiences and crying and having these emotional videos. The patients that come in, came in because of that cause they want to be part of that community. So, it's much easier in those practices. That's not my practice. My practice is the private high-end Beverly Hills expensive person, you know? So, I have to do a lot of volume to, to, to get the photos that I get. But aging face, they let you show a little bit more than, than rhinoplasty in general. Unless you're like, you know, Richard Zuma, who's like one of my really good friends and co-fellow director, he is amazing plastic surgeon for knows, and he gets so, many because people fall in love with, well his results are incredible, but it's also like his videos, they're amazing if you watch them, I watch them and I'm like addicted to them. They're amazing. And he DJs the music himself. Wow. So, I'm not on all of them, but on some of them. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, nice. I'll check that out. All right. You know, we're going to wrap it up now, but I hear you have a piano in your lobby. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: What, what's I got too? I got a few. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. We have to talk about the piano in the lobby and the little car next to you. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? So, what, what's going on with you, with your interests? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. Well, I started playing piano when I was a kid and I started composing when I was like 10 years old. And then I stopped composing when I was about 20. So, I had written I don't know, probably like 50 something songs. And they're not with lyrics, but they are with the, the story. They all have kind of a story. And the piano I have in my office was kind of a dream of mine, where initially when I was building my office, I wanted to build it like Andrews, I wanted to build it like Promen. I wanted to build like Unas where it was more of a classic style, classic Victorian style because you're trying to cater to the patient. Then I started talking to my friend who's a designer, Antonio Risi, and he has this company called Prototype Design Lab. And he started trying to pick my brain to see what I wanted. And I have no taste in like furniture and interior design and architectural design. Maybe I had a little, but it was hidden. I didn't know. And so, he starts extracting it out of you. And one of the things he saw was that I really did always want a piano in my lobby to be playing. Either I play it or it's self-playing. So, we actually designed the lobby to fit the piano, but also in the shape of a grand piano. So, when you walk in, my couch curves out like this and it parallels the piano, which is sitting over there. And the floor, the tile is three-dimensional white and black tile. So, it looks like piano keys and the chrome louver is kind of look. So, it's, it's a very cool reception. And it's now seven and a half years old probably. And it looks like it hasn't aged a day like the reception. It's a very cool office and I'm so, happy I did that rather than trying to cater to the patient because I'm spending so, much time in there, like I want it to be fun. I was spending 16 hours a day, six days a week. And like I wanted to be somewhere where I wanted to look around and appreciate. Cause I like pretty things. You know, maybe I'm not the best at creating them sometimes with, like, furniture that I have no idea how. But I like looking at them. I like looking at art. I like, it's, it's like nice to look at. My favorite thing to look at is cars. So, I have I've been working on more recently focusing on finally achieving that dream because I ignored that for a very long time. I've raced cars since I was a kid. I've been a car fanatic, but I never thought I'd be able to afford any of these cars. So, I had it kind of in the back burner. And then at some point I just kind of bit the bullet, said, you know what? Let me get it. And I'm, I got so, happy from this one car. I'm like, I got to get another one. I got so, happy from that. I'm like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. What did you get? I have a, a couple cars. I have a, well the, the one that drove me over the edge was the 4G T. So, I have a 2006 4G T, which is a like pure analog track car, which means 700 horsepower, zero assist in breaking, zero, assist in steering, zero, assist in anything. So, it's that is one of the most amazing things to drive. And then this one's a BMW Isetta, which is a, Isetta 300. It's from 1960. And that's a lawnmower engine. It's usually covered, but that's a lawnmower engine. It has 13 horsepower. It barely makes it up my hill. And I brought it into the house now that I brought it in, I can't get it out. So, it, it's going to be here for a while unless I take it to the backyard and crane it over. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, so, you, I, because I was going to ask you like, tell us something we don't know about you. I'm pretty sure your car collection, you have like a little car collection going, don't you? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Starting. I wouldn't call myself a car collector. I am a car enthusiast and obsessed with cars, and I will, in the next few years, have a decent number where you'd look at it and say, wow, he does have like a little collection. It won't be an impressive one. But the types of cars are very well curated. So, if you look at them, they're, they all have kind of their place in history where it was a very special or iconic car. They call them all iconic cars, but they're all iconic. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. So, like what, what's a vision of one of them that you don't have yet, that you want? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: My dream of all dreams would be a Maserati MC-12, which is 51 were made, they said 50, but there's two number fifties. So, 51 were made in 2005'ish where when the Ferrari Enzo came out and it's the they made a more beautiful version of any car ever. So, that was my favorite classic kind of car or collectible. Whereas my favorite newer car, which I can't even put into my dream list, would be a Paani Utopia, which is the, in the, there was a Pagani Pra, another Pagan utopia. It's the most beautiful car to date built. It's gorgeous and it looks like a watchmaker made, and that's how they built it. It looks like a watchmaker and it has a tour beyond inside the speedometer and tachometer. So, it's in incredible. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford that unless I like sell my house for it, but that would be a remote dream. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay. Yeah, I want to see that when that happens. I have to go Google it. I don't, I don't even know what it looks like. So, with the one more thing though that we nobody knows about you, you mentioned cooking. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? I think you're a pretty good cook, aren't you? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: I'm, I'm, I'm an amateur cook, but I make everything up myself, which is the fun part. So, since I was a kid, I started cooking when I was like, probably like five, six years old. I made my first like eggs and then I would make myself breakfast every morning when I was seven, eight years old. And I started cooking more classic, like Persian food and stews, like when I was nine or so. And from there just would watch my mom cook and figure things out. And the fun for me started after like, high school more, where before high school I was all about like fried chicken. So, I make like all fried chicken recipes and different things. But I got a little more creative afterwards as my palette expanded a little bit and I would Try to create recipes or recreate them when I would get inspired by being in a restaurant without looking at a recipe. So, I would just make it, and after like 50% failures, I went to 40% failures, 20% failures where it just wouldn't taste good. And then now I'm at the point where almost everything I make tastes good without me tasting it. So, I'm not somebody who tastes as I go to see if it's good, I like to kind of envision what flavors will go together. And I'll make something I'd never made before. And it works. And the way I do it is I just walk around the market, pick a bunch of things that I'd like, and then I come put them on my counter and I say let me make this. And I just start putting it together. So, I started a cooking page on Facebook a while back called Bent's Kitchen, and then I started a hashtag on Instagram called Bent's Kitchen. So, I, I would actually remember some of the ones that I made. I learned this from when I composed all my piano songs. I would compose them. I never actually transcribed them. I only transcribed a few of them. I videotaped a bunch. But with the recipes, I thought it was a shame that I had made so, many and forgot I had ever made them. So, I started taking photos and I would just write a brief description of what it was. So, I have a hashtag Ben's Kitchen. I have an Instagram page, mentality's Kitchen, but it's only the more recent kind of stuff that's been uploaded to it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord, are you getting any sleep? I know you were supposed to because your heart wanted to take a rest, but I Do you get any sleep? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year? Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. I'm in a good position now. So, I, I, I used to come home at 10:00 PM from work and then I'd be on emails till midnight and I'd be back at work. I'd be back in the office at five or even four 30. So, I'd have to be up at four or four 30 at that point. And I'd just take a nap somewhere here and there. Now I sleep a decent amount, so, I get home, I work like 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM and then do a couple things here and there. I'm usually asleep by like 11, so, it's not, not too bad anymore. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, you're still young. You can, don't do it while you can, because when you get older, boy it doesn't, it does. It changes. It really does. I never thought it would, but it does. Anyway. It has been a pleasure having you. Dr. Talei, if anybody wanted to get ahold of you, which I'm afraid they're going to say yes. How would they, how would they communicate? Benjamin Talei, MD: Most people just contact me on Instagram. So, it's Dr. Ben Talei. So, they put "Dr. Ben", d r b e n and it pops up. And then my website's, www.BeverlyHillsCenter.com. That domain name was available when I was graduating Fellowship and I was like shocked. So, I got Beverly. That's crazy. Oh my God. Who didn't grab that? That's crazy. I don't know, but I was so, happy because I was having trouble figuring out what to name my practice or what to name. Because you can't put Tai, like people can't spell t a l e i. It's too many. Yeah. You know, it's easy for me, but it's not for other people. And. I, I had a list of names that I liked. One of them was Beverly Hills Center, and I looked it up, I'm like, there's no way this is on GoDaddy. And I ended up buying it. And Great website. Have you always been lucky? Things work out for me in general. Not, not like I've had like horrible relationships a few times, but otherwise I've but I went into them kind of knowingly sacrificing, so, otherwise you've always been pretty fortunate. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and I think hard work. What's that quote? I'm the, the harder I work, the luckier I get. It's probably one of those, but boy, I mean, just watching you from afar. You are crushing it. So, congratulations. Keep up the good work. I'll be watching. I'll be at the next meeting as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, thank you so, much. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Talei performs 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Talei, you can reach out to his website at, www.BeverlyHillsCenter.com. A big thanks to Dr. Talei for sharing his philosophy on performing 3k lip lifts and 300 facelifts per year. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "3k Lip Lifts Plus 300 Facelifts Per Year — with Benjamin Talei, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #howtoperformmoreliplifts #howtoperformmorefacelifts #drbentalei #drbenjamintalei #bentaleimd #benjamintaleimd | |||
| Prepare Your Practice to Survive and Thrive (Ep. 211) | 21 Jun 2023 | 00:18:25 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to prepare your practice to survive and thrive. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Prepare your practice to Survive and Thrive". This podcast is for you if…
But, times are changing so quickly and will continue to change at a rapid rate due to the economy, Artificial Intelligence and other cosmetic rejuvenation advancing technologies. Prepare now so you're able to adapt to weather the good times and the bad times, since nothing stays the same so knowledge is power and acting on the knowledge is everything! Because the objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so it's more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with. Because the ultimate goal to scale your practice includes a system that attracts a steady stream of cash-paying patients, WITHOUT spending a fortune on advertising, chasing down leads, hiring more staff, discounting services or performing on social media. In other words, a "faster, easier, cheaper way to more cosmetic patients and profits." So here are 3 things you need to grow a scalable practice and to prepare your practice to survive and thrive: Leverage – use your assets you already have to generate more revenues with less effort and overhead to prepare your practice to survive and thrive Bankable Profits – not just revenues, but profits you actually take out of the practice and Transferrable Value – means you have separated you from the practice so you have the freedom to sell to someone else when it's time to exit But there are challenges ahead to prepare your practice to survive and thrive… Did you hear what happened? Privacy issues are killing your plans for attracting new patients to your practice. So much is happening behind the scenes with Apple, Google and FaceBook trying to dominate consumer data capture, so they are no longer sharing data with advertisers like before. This is making it very difficult for you to attract new PREFERRED patients when you can no longer target specifically to certain audiences. And that means Ad results will become incomplete and inaccurate because you now have only 10% of the data that used to be 100% available. So that will force you to increase your advertising budget substantially, as in 30-80% and HOPE the broader, less targeted audience is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation. It's very similar to old-school mass advertising like TV. You spend a fortune to talk to everyone, rather than a targeted audience most likely to want your services. So not only do your ad costs increase dramatically, so do poor quality leads. Since your ads are not as targeted to your preferred patients, you get a mixed bag of the public contacting you. Now your staff wastes a lot of time triaging these leads to determine who is really serious and who is flaky. So, you need well-trained staff and processes to qualify leads. BTW, if you aren't already, I recommend you charge a consult fee so at least, your time is better protected from wasted consults who have no intention of moving forward. Regardless of their motives, these few Internet companies affect you big time if you are using paid advertising to attract new cosmetic patients. It's complicated and technical so I'll leave that to your internet company to explain but, suffice it to say, it's going to get even more expensive to advertise for a new cosmetic patient with less than stellar results. This major increase in advertising costs has now made SEO popular again; however, the supply is much greater than the demand so it's getting near impossible to rank on the 1st page. And now AI has taken off and can write content for you and everyone else so that will add a whole new level of complexity and On top of that, Google is also using AI and turning into an answer engine in which they are answering consumer questions without them having to go to your website. Another huge challenge you want to plan for is your social media strategy. I believe this is where we need to head so I would spend time understanding it and getting good at it because it's your only differentiator in a sea of massive content coming at prospective patients. However, please keep in mind, you are only renting those followers. IG and FB own them so they are, in essence the landlord. That means they can raise the rent and/or kick you out at any time, so you lose your data you've spent years collecting. I'm sure you're aware that social media and plastic surgery don't get along. You are showing graphic material that can be offensive or hurt the self-esteem of the public so they can close down your account without notice. They also decide who sees your organic content. FB & IG continually strangle your list to force you to "pay to play" by buying advertising. The latest stats show only 5.2% of your followers actually see your organic content so you have this false sense of security thinking you're marketing your practice when, in fact, it's drying up right before your eyes. So, to counter this, I recommend you own the data to help prepare your practice to survive and thrive! You can no longer trust that audiences you have built on social media platforms will be available to you. The 1st party data is the future and the money is in your patient list data.it's become your best targeted list because they already raised their hand indicating they are interested in cosmetic rejuvenation. Use landing pages to capture your followers' name, email and cell so you can stay in touch no matter what happens. I'm imploring you to use the data and resources you already have built up over the years being in practice since it's no longer easy to come by. Another big challenge is Technical Advancements are coming at patients fast and furiously. Just google non-surgical and look what pops up. What that means to you is plenty of patients still need your surgical expertise; however, way more will opt for non-surgical procedures first to delay surgery So, meet them where they are now so you don't lose them to non-surgeons and med spas. Develop that relationship early so they come for non-surgical AND stay for surgical procedures and they come for SX and stay for non-SX for years to come. Given these challenges, how CAN you scale your practice and prepare your practice to survive and thrive?
This will take a mindset shift to prepare your practice to survive and thrive... The short-term, one-and-done mentality is a tough game to play in today's world. Instead, look at each patient as an unpaid practice revenue-generator who brings you new patients for free. Once you embrace this "patients for life" mindset, you will treat your patients differently and they will react in kind by building your practice for you organically. So, here's what I'm proposing to prepare your practice to survive and thrive… Enjoy the surgical side of your practice while also building up your non-surgical as a healthy stand-alone profit center and here's why… Patients enter different doors to cosmetic rejuvenation, so you want to meet them where they are. Some will go straight to SX and then stay for more, while others dabble in non-surgical, some for years, before they are ready for your SX option. And the beauty of our industry is that Cosmetic Consumers Have ENDLESS NEEDS. The non-surgical industry has grown dramatically thanks to social trends, social media and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the demand. And let's face it, we females are hard on ourselves. We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves and then we finally have had enough and do something about it and then what do we do? We find the next thing that bothers us about us and focus on that. I also looked up the most recent Aesthetic society stats and non-SX is now 1/3 of all aesthetic procedures performed and that's growing. And, here's another interesting stat… Loyal non-SX patients spend 67% more than new patients and that makes sense because If they know, like and trust you, they are open to your recommendations and will gladly buy your packages when offered. This increases their lifetime value and decreases your advertising budget and that makes for a great P&L statement. So, it's the Retention of your patients that scales your practice using resources you already have and paid dearly for. You likely have a database of hundreds or thousands of patients. I know for a fact many of them would gladly return and refer if given the opportunity. Heck, even google agrees: One day, I was so frustrated with all the changes going on in digital advertising and tripling your costs to get mediocre results, I googled how can I get more cosmetic patients and here's what google said. How to increase patient volume in your cosmetic surgery practice:
I happen to have a solution that addresses most of these so check out KissLoyaltyClub.com for details. BTW, here's the greatest missed opportunity Word-of-mouth referrals to prepare your practice to survive and thrive. That should be growing every year for you so if it's not, something is off. Duct Tape Marketing says 83% of business owners claim their main source of new business is referrals. But here's the crazy part... 93% of customers say they would refer their friends to you BUT only 29% actually do. Work on the 64% difference – that's where the money is (not your TikTok videos) Do you even ask referrals? This cannot a happy accident. It needs to be a process. Treat your patients well, give them a great experience and results and then ask them to refer their friends. So, To pull this altogether, here is the structure to follow to scale your practice in this order. Increase referrals and reviews to prepare your practice to survive and thrive Retain more of your patients to prepare your practice to survive and thrive Add more value to differentiate you from your competitors to prepare your practice to survive and thrive Offer Ongoing staff training to prepare your practice to survive and thrive Increase the conversion rates of callers to appointments and consultations to paid procedures to prepare your practice to survive and thrive Increase your patient's transaction value to prepare your practice to survive and thrive Increase their frequency of visits and then when you have these fundamentals down to prepare your practice to survive and thrive, Now you Increase your leads/traffic because you are on your game and firing on all cylinders to prepare your practice to survive and thrive. But most surgeons have this backwards. They focus only on the bottom rung to increase leads, skip the leverage parts so they and their staff work a lot harder than necessary for less results. The goal is to create a system to scale your practice by 10X'ing the value of your non-surgical patients so if they are typically worth $1K to you, they are soon worth $10K to you because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, and share you on social media with their followers. So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues. This scalable system needs to be a creative solution that eliminates discounting, advertising and hiring more staff. This will ensure you operate more profitably so you keep more of the revenues you bring in. And this system needs to be on autopilot so you and your staff can focus on the patient experience. And this system needs to be unique to anything else out there because it changes the conversation. Here's what I mean… Most practices don't realize how insanely difficult it is to get a complete stranger to buy something from them, so they fall back on price, as in discounting their services. That message attracts price-shoppers but then you're frustrated that you're being nickel and dimed to death. All of this discounting hurts your profits and your image and it's a race to the bottom because you can't compete if you're barely covering your overhead. It's also not a fun way to run your practice. So, with the creative system I'm proposing, you change the conversation from discounting to collecting KiSSes for free services to prepare your practice to survive and thrive. This makes it more fun for your patients to collect KiSSes to win something. And, the most effective word in advertising has been and will always be FREE, so we use it strategically. So now your patients have fun collecting kisses and you keep way more of your profits and revenues. That's how you scale a cosmetic practice you enjoy going to and are proud of. I want to introduce you to the KiSS Loyalty club where your patients get KiSSes towards Free Cosmetic Services, rather than discounts so you keep more profits AND we do all the marketing for you so you don't have to hire more staff. Its sole purpose is to grow your revenues by encouraging your patients to return, refer, review, approve their before/after photos, shoot a video testimonial, share you on social media and complete a surgical procedure is optional. If that sounds interesting to you, please check out the details at KissLoyaltyClub.com and let's see if you're a good candidate for The Kiss Loyalty Club. You'll go through a quick, 1-minute assessment and then we'll talk. Go now to KissLoyaltyClub.com and I hope to talk to you soon. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticesurvival #cosmeticpracticepatients #morepatients #kissloyaltyclub | |||
| Selling but Staying in Your Practice — with Andrew Kaufman, MD (Ep. 210) | 21 Jun 2023 | 00:30:50 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and selling but staying in your practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Selling but Staying in Your Practice — with Andrew Kaufman, MD". This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview with Dr. Andrew Kaufman, a board-certified dermatologist specializing in Mohs, dermatologic and cosmetic surgery in Thousand Oaks, CA for over 28 years. He built a nice size practice with several doctors under him plus 40 staff and a lot of accounts receivable. And, like others who have put decades into building their practices, he was searching for an exit plan that made financial and emotional sense to him. Dr. Kaufman recently sold his practice to a big private equity derm group known as Forefront Dermatology so we talked about the specifics of that transaction. We discussed:
He offered great advice on how to set yourself up to sell, how much time it takes to prepare and who to get help from to negotiate the best scenario for you. Visit Dr. Kaufman's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Selling but Staying in Your PracticeCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and selling but staying in your practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is a little different. It's Dr. Andrew Kaufman. Now, he's a board- certified dermatologist specializing in Mohs dermatologic and cosmetic surgery in Thousand Oaks, California, and he has been practicing for over 28 years. He's also very knowledgeable on the topic of selling but staying in your practice. Now, dr. Kaufman is a recognized expert in Mohs and reconstructive surgery and author of numerous publications on facial reconstruction following skincare surgery, skin cancer surgery, as well as a frequently invited speaker at national and international meetings. Now, I wanted to talk to him because he recently sold his practice, and we've been talking about that a lot lately. Like, how do you walk away from a practice? So, I wanted to get his take on it because his practice is now known as Forefront Dermatology. So, we're going to talk about the specifics of that transaction. Dr. Kaufman, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Andrew Kaufman, MD: Thanks, Catherine. It's good to be with you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much. So, let, why don't you just start by describing your practice before you sold it or partnered, or whatever you want to call it. What was your practice consisting of? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, my practice is primarily in Thousand Oaks in Santa Barbara and I had moved to that area about 28, 29 years ago. After I'd completed a moose Fellowship at UC San Francisco and joined a general medical dermatologist, I knew pretty well that I, I would do well in the area because there weren't many, there weren't any moose surgeons at the time in the area and, I had done residencies in dermatology down there and residency in internal medicine. So, I knew primary care physicians and dermatologists, and I knew there was a need for a Mohs surgeon. So, I was able to build up over time. I bought his practice and then we added additional dermatologists over time to the point where there's approximately five or six general medical dermatologists and a facial plastic surgeon who also does. You know, facelifts, Mohs and rhinoplasties blepharoplasties, whatever's necessary that the other doctors aren't doing. So, that's pretty much what my practice had been before I started considering you know, an exit strategy. And did you have a pathology lab? We didn't have a laboratory. We do have a board-certified dermatopathologist who's read all of our slides since she's been there for the last. Eight to 10 years probably. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Now, how many staff did you have? So, you had five D, five dermatologists, plus you plus, yeah. Facial plastics. How many staff? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: It's somewhere between 30 and 40, somewhere around there. Probably, maybe a little more. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Who is managing all of this? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, you know, over time there's a number of different administrators or managers that I'd worked with and So, me very good and some not quite as good. I was fortunate in the latter part of my career as a, as a practice owner that I had a very good one administrator who kind of helped me through the processes that I was going through. Catherine Maley, MBA: And what was your biggest challenge, would you say? Running solo practice. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, you know, in California it isn't easy to make a living and stuff. Things are expensive. HR, you know, human resources. Employees are expensive. Doctors are expensive. Health insurance is expensive, but at the same time, reimbursement from commercial carrier insurances continues to go downward. So, I think the biggest challenge is, is running a business when expenses keep going up, but reimbursement keeps going down. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? So, now it's somehow what got on your radar? Like what did the, this what's it called? Forward dermatology. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Forefront Dermatology. Catherine Maley, MBA: Forefront Dermatology. How did they get on your radar, and were you even thinking about. Your exit strategy? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, I mean, the whole point was, you know, I've been doing this close to 30 years and I'm the sole, you know practice owner. So, I kind of had to come up with a, an exit strategy that made sense. I didn't want to develop. You know, an illness or die or get injured or something that was going to seriously impair the practice. And so, I started considering exit strategies and first, the first option would've been, could have been, you know, selling to my associates. They weren't interested really, you know, part of its kind of a generational thing. Nowadays a lot of people. Aren't really looking, they're not particularly entrepreneurial, and they would rather come in work and go home which is fine. I respect that. But they weren't really interested. And then second option is I looked at also was academic centers like UCLA and USC Cedar Sinai and Stanford to see if they had any interest in having a satellite you know, dermatology office and ambulatory surgery center. In Thousand Oaks in Santa Barbara. And there really wasn't, you know, although in the past they, there had been some interest with some dermatology and other practices. Right now, they're not really interested in buying private practices. And after that, then I started looking at private equity-based groups primarily. And you know, there's a, a few that are in California and then there's a few more that are, that want to come to California. So, you know, we went through a, a number of different groups and kind of vetted them to see what was going to be the best fit. Catherine Maley, MBA: But how would you know, like, do you, this is so, new for you. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? How did you know what you were looking for? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, there's certain things, you know, that I wanted in the deal that, you know, were important to me, and there was, and it varies between the different groups as to who's willing to do what. And there's also, you know, there's a difference between the groups. You know, you, you know, when you meet people there's a difference between people who are running the group and whether you, you feel that that's going to be a good fit for you. To me it was important that things were ran as smoothly as possible after the close of the deal, as it had before the deal. So, spent a lot of time trying to get to know the people and. And kind of like what their thought process was and how things would've worked out. I wanted things to be similar for not just myself, but the other doctors and my staff and my patients. So, that was kind of important to me. And, you know, other, other factors were also important to me. And, you know, for example, things like you know, whether or not stock was available, they felt if I was going to help their company grow, I wanted. To benefit from that to some degree. I wanted to have my cash up, you know, at the time of close. I didn't want to have 20% of it or whatever dangled out there for several years for somebody else to decide whether or not I get it. And things like that. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really interesting point because we've been talking a lot about private equity. You didn't go with private equity; you went with a physician based led. What is it? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, no, it is. It is a private equity group. Generally, all of the private equity groups have a physician board and physician president. Because in order to practice of medicine, they have to have a physician as their leader. But it's a business. And when I talk to people about it, I try to make it clear that This, this is, these people are, it's a company, it's a, and they want to, they want to get a return on their investment. Mm-hmm. They want to get the best deal that they can. And so, you know, I think that best thing a person can do is make sure that you have a good accountant and a good attorney, both of which are well versed and well experienced in mergers and acquisitions, especially in healthcare. Because you want people on your team that have done this a lot before and know what's right and what isn't right, what all the tricks are, and what's the proper thing, so, that you're well represented. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really good pearl. Not just legal, but somebody who really specializes in m and a for healthcare, right? Like that's pretty specific. And is there a reason you went with such a big group? Do you, does that feel more, I don't know certain, when you, I mean, that's a really big group that you went with. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Did, did that make you feel more secure that they had more money? That they, because you're saying that you got a pretty good, it sounds like you got a pretty good cash outlay, right? It's from the get go. Because usually there's a lot of dangling on the back end, you know? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, I mean, pretty good is all relative. So, so, you know, it's, like I said, it wasn't the, the main, my main interest was to set something up for an exit strategy. Mm-hmm. So, that my, my, I would be safe, my patients would be safe, my staff would have jobs and stuff like that. We wouldn't have to worry about stuff. So, the number one thing was I wanted to be certain that things were going to be stable. So, yeah, I guess having a. A larger group associated with it. You don't have to worry quite so, much about financial issues. We were really the second group that they had they had purchased in California, so, mm-hmm. They were brand new to the West coast and you know, they're still...they're looking and meeting with other groups now and doing deals with other groups right now. But the main thing was that, you know, I wanted what I considered to be a fair price for my practice. And I wanted some of those other things I talked about, and I wanted to feel like things were going to be as close to where it was after the deal. As it was before the deal. Catherine Maley, MBA: Exactly. By the way, what were they looking for? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? But did, did you, do you own your building or was it just a long lease that they liked? Or what were they, why did you look attracted to them? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, you know, the Dermatology's been kind of a target for private equity groups for a number of years now. And they, they like dermatology because they have skin cancer, they have dermatopathology and dermatopathology labs, and then they also have cosmetic. And they feel that, you know, that's, you know, they can do well, that they can, they can do well in their business model with those things. So, So, I mean they're, you know, we have a pretty, you know, robust, good sized dermatology practice with three different offices. So, that was probably attracted to them. You know, we, I do a fair amount of MO surgery. We have dermpath, we have people doing cosmetics, so, those are the things probably we're attracted to them. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And then were several groups kind of courting you or can you play them off of each other? Was that a strategy? I'm just so, many surgeons or surgeons are looking at this saying, I don't even know who to talk to. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Like, where do you even begin? Any advice on that? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: I don't want to say you can play off of them, but you can get a, an idea about what each is going to be offering and. Maybe you can get an idea from a couple at the same time. But once you sign an LOI, a letter of intent, you're really just, you're, you're planning to get married to one, so, you can't keep playing that. So, I'd say you can get an idea from the different groups and then go with one over the other, or two. You can talk to two or three at one time. But I, you know, it gets kind of, Confusing and complicated when you start doing more than that because you know, you're sharing part of your, you know, you have to share your me your business records and everything. And you want to kind of keep everybody straight so, you can get a pretty good idea. But you can also get an idea early on about whether you want to work with this particular group or whether you feel comfortable, you know, you're going to be communicating with these people afterwards and whether that's going to be a good fit or not. That'll screen some people out. Catherine Maley, MBA: I check them out online and they say it looks like they take over HR, legal, marketing, scheduling. Do they do all of that or just if you're comfortable doing that, what did they take over for you that you no longer have to settle with? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, ultimately, they take over all of that stuff. You know, it's their practice. So, and for the most part, you know, again, different groups are different. So, me are going to want to brand your o office. So, me of them don't really care, although they may have like a tagline, bra a branding of it. Right. So, it just kind of depends on the individual, but most of them are going to want things to kind of fit like their other groups. So, we had not, we did not have electronic health records before we sold. Oh. But within about five months after we did. They're, they're planning, you know, I think they're doing some centralized billing, centralized scheduling, things like that. But we still have some scheduling and little bit of billing and stuff too. But the, the whole idea is that they, by converting to what they have, is that's they're going to make, do a better on their return on investment. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how long has it been by the way that they've been on board? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Like a year and. Four or five months, something like that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. How difficult was the transition Or how easy was it? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: It wasn't bad at all. I mean, honestly, I mean, because again, for me it was kind of an exit strategy. I mean, when you're the sole owner, you know, I make all the decisions and if something needs to get done, then we get it done. So, now decisions have to kind of go through a different type of hierarchy or. You know, decision tree or something. And that's fine by me because I've given up some, a lot of the headache stuff that I've had to deal with as the, as the owner in the past. So, what, what has what I've given up on is made up for by the things that make my life a little easier. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, no regrets of losing control? Because I don't know many surgeons who, who I mean, there's a reason you're in solo practice usually. You like control, you like to do things your way. Was that a transition for you? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, I mean, I'm not solo practice. I'm so, I was a solo loner, but so, not, not particularly difficult. I mean, you know, yeah, it's, it's different but I enjoy kind of being where, in the same seat where my associates have been for all these years, you know, where I come in and take good care of my patients and go home and I don't have to worry about the little things and stuff. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how does the agreement work? You, you still need to stay a, a while, correct? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah. You know, basically these companies are buying. A business they don't want, you know, if, if you're a big part of that business, they don't want you disappearing like six months after the deal is done. So, it really varies, you know, group to group and you know, private equity group to private equity group, and it differs from practice to practice. If I was a solo practitioner by myself and somebody bought me, I would think that they would want me to stick around for a longer period of time because I'm the practice. Mm-hmm. And it'd be harder to replace me and harder for them to get a return on investment. So, it just makes sense for them to, you know, keep people long enough so, that they get their return on investment and it doesn't disrupt things. So, It really varies, you know, how long the groups will want you to be on. If you're a very large group, then you're maybe not quite as important, but they still want you to be around for a period of time. Catherine Maley, MBA: Can you say how long? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, it really varies. I mean practice to practice and everything. I mean, some of them are three years, some of them are five years, some may be somewhere in between or more or less, I'm not sure, but somewhere around there probably. Catherine Maley, MBA: Let me ask it this way. Is it more financially good for you to stay put? The longer you stay, the more money you make? Is it like that? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Not necessarily. I mean, you know again, the company wants to get, make their profit, so, I don't have control over overhead like I did before. Quite so, much. You know, they have decisions that they make about doing this or doing that, so, I'd say, you know, as an exit strategy, I think it makes sense. If you were like brand new and, you know, started working five years ago, when you're thinking that, okay I'm going to sell and then I'm going to work for these people for 20 years, that might be a little bit more of a challenge. But you know and there are sometimes young people that do that, or maybe they sell and then they. Work, their commitment and then they move outside of the restrictive covenant. But for me it was a good fit as an exit strategy. Catherine Maley, MBA: If you did want to walk away sooner than planned, can you, like legally, does everything blow up or is there a way out if you wanted it? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: I haven't really evaluated that. I'm trying to avoid any reason why I would stop, stop working. So, for me it's about, you know, I'll continue working, you know, I have a contract with them, and if after that period of time they want me to stay on and I'm enjoying what I'm doing, then I may stick, stay around, or I may negotiate it another contract and stay around. But I'm just kind of playing it by ear and seeing how things go. But I mean, if you leave, then. The company has is, is going to make, it'll be more difficult for them to get their return on investment. They've already put money up front, so, they're going to want to get some of that, that money back, I would imagine. But I'm trying not to find out about that. I guess so. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I'm really curious about when you transitioned, how, how did it affect the staff and your other physicians? Was there a change in attitude? Was there a turnover? What happened with everyone? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: All the, all the doctors that were there before are still there, with the exception of one doctor who. Left, not so, much related to the company, but left a little while after he was kind of a part-time person. Other than that, everybody stayed. My staff, the ones that work around me anyway, are all still there. For the most part. I mean, maybe one person's left. So, it hasn't really changed much. And when I sold, I wanted to make sure that I was communicating with my referral doctors. About what was going on and that I wasn't leaving and that I was still going to be here, and that things weren't going to change, and if there's any problem to gimme a call or text me or something. So, I wanted to make sure that everything still went as well as possible. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you say like what percentage of your business is referral based? Because now I see what you're saying because I was thinking if you're such a big practice, why would it matter if you left or not? But it's your referral base that they're interested in, is that right? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, well, they're, they're interested in having somebody who brings money, you know, a decent amount of money into the practice to stick around. So, there's another most surgeon in the practice. Who's been there for about a few years now, and we try to feed him as many of the in-house referrals as possible. I mean, there's still a fair number of patients that want to see me. Mm-hmm. And the vast majority of my practice is referral from outside of the walls of the building and stuff. So, it's, it's not related as the company's concern wasn't necessarily the referrals from outside, they just want. People that are generating a good income to stick around, whether it's me or whether it's the other most surgeon. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, they really like the most part, right? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well yeah, because it's skin cancer and it's you know, it's one of those things that in good economies and not so, good economies, there's still going to be skin cancer. You know, the downside is you're dependent on insurance commercial carriers, you know, are not paying like what they did 10 or 20 years ago and they have to deal with that. And but yeah, you know, business of skin cancer is, is attractive. Just like the other things like cosmetic and the derm path. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: And, Did the facial plastic surgeon stay put or was he just a plastic surgeon? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, no, he's, he, he's facial plastics and yeah, he's still working there at as before and I'm hoping that he'll get busier with you know, the addition of other groups, you know, that this company is going to try to bring on board as well. So, hopefully he'll get busier with that as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you were also offering a lot of cosmetic nonsurgical treatments. Was that, did that play a part in this? Was that valuable to them? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: I think, yeah. I think all of it comes into play and is in interesting to them. You know, they have, like, as you point out, it's fairly good size company, new to California. So, they have other groups that do that. Other dermatology groups, I think they do have some other facial plastics people in, in the, in the company too. But more consistently it's a lot of dermatology stuff and the kind of cosmetic things that dermatologists do. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what's the best part about this transaction? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: For me, like I said, it's that I get to go home and not worry about the, the crazy little things or worry about payroll or worry about you know, dealing with HR issues, you know, employee issues and, you know, in a state like California, that's, that's not a bad thing to have to give up and stuff. So, like I said, for me, it's the best part, I guess, is the security, knowing that, you know, I don't have to worry about that stuff or that my family wouldn't have to worry about it Catherine Maley, MBA: And then what's the worst part about this transaction? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, you know, I don't control everything anymore, so, you know, it's, That's, that's the worst part. So, it's kind of like, it's, it's, they're both related. Yeah. So, but I'm okay with that. You know, like I said, I've, I've, I've been the person that was in charge of everything for almost 30 years and sound like a good time to you know, hand over the reins to somebody else. Catherine Maley, MBA: And no regrets? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: No. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Any advice for somebody else thinking about this? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Even if they're you know, usually I work with plastic surgeons, but any advice with that, with, for that? Andrew Kaufman, MD: You know, kind of is you know, number one would be you know, bet your potential buyers. You know, you want to make sure you understand these people. These are the people that after the deal you're going to be asking for things or talking to them about things. So, make sure that you can see yourself working with these people. Number two is you know, I guess number two, I think a really important thing is to understand that when you get to the point where you're signing an LOI, a letter of intent, if it's not in the LOI, it's really hard to get it afterwards. So, let's say you want to have. Your consultation room still all yours for when, when you're there five days a week or whatever, let's say you want to have two, two nurses of similar quality working with you all the time. Let's say that you want whatever the same number of days of vacation or whatever it is, or, you know, make sure it's in the LOI. And again, you know, a good attorney who's experienced in mergers and acquisitions. Should, should know that and should tell you that. I mean, I learned that from listening to a lecture once in, in a, in a dermatology or dermatologic surgery lecture. And I just think it's a really good advice. So, I think that's important. You know, think about what you're going to want your practice to be like and make sure that make sure that it's, it's good for you, it's good for your associate positions if you have associates. And it's good for your staff and your patients too. You know, you don't want to sell and then be miserable or have your staff miserable or your patients miserable. So, make sure that they're going to pay, you know, your staff and your, and, and not going to try to make things more challenging for your patients. Make sure that your doctors can get ahold of you and everything afterwards. Catherine Maley, MBA: Has your golf game improved since you've transitioned? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: You would've thought you would've thought so. Maybe when I ultimately retire, re retire, maybe when I ultimately retire, I'll be able to fix that. But right now, I'm basically better at Mohs reconstruction than I am at golf and, okay. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good to know. And the last question, just out of sheer curiosity, tell us something we don't already know about you. Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, I mean, I collect medical, surgical and apothecary. Antiques. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is that what's behind you? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice? Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, that's part of it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow, okay. That's unusual. I haven't heard that before Andrew Kaufman, MD: There you go. So, yeah, so, anything from surgical sets to antique stethoscopes to massages, which are wax models, do books, textbooks related, you know, things like that. Like how far back. I have a pretty good collection, so, you know, I have. You know, I, I probably don't buy much anymore unless it's like 18th century or something or something really special. Yeah. So, from the 17 hundreds, which is a long time ago, and those things are fewer and far between. But yeah, it's kind of fun and you know, as a physician it's kind of fun to you know, appreciate that, that stuff and appreciate how things have changed in just the last a hundred years or so. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, fascinating. Well, thank you so, much. If anybody wanted to talk with you, how would they get ahold of you? Andrew Kaufman, MD: My best option is probably to, to reach out by telephone, you know, at my office (805) 497-1694. And like I said, best option is "find yourself". Don't necessarily go with your accountant or your attorney. Find somebody that's going to represent you well and Come up with a good game plan and make sure that you're protected and they're taking good care of you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Excellent advice. Thank you so, much, Dr. Kaufman, Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, thank you so, much. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on selling but staying in your practice. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Kaufman, you can reach out to his website at, www.forefrontdermatology.com. A big thanks to Dr. Kaufman for sharing his experience on the topic of, "selling but staying in your practice". And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Selling but Staying in Your Practice — with Andrew Kaufman, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #sellyourcosmeticpractic #cosmeticpracticeprivateequity #privateequityadvice #drandrewkaufman #andrewkaufmanmd | |||
| Attracting Hair Loss Patients — with Alan J. Bauman, MD (Ep. 209) | 09 Jun 2023 | 00:56:04 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and attracting hair loss patients. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Attracting Hair Loss Patients — with Alan J. Bauman, MD". It's very common for surgeons to want to expand and grow their practices. Actually, it's human nature to want to progress and there's nothing wrong with that. So, they go to conferences and listen to speakers and vendors talk about the latest technologies and how to use it to grow your practice. They have great stories and case studies about how this investment offers a new service to attract a new demographic of patients. A common new service to offer is hair loss technology. It makes sense. You can just look around and see how big a problem it can be for a ton of people. But what you can't see is the time, money and effort that goes into marketing this technology to consumers who see their hair loss as a problem and are actually looking for a solution, AND are willing to spend the money to fix their problem. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Alan Bauman who is a full-time hair transplant surgeon in Boca Raton, FL. He's treated over 30K patients and performed over 10K hair transplant surgeries in his 12,000 square foot facility. We talked about how he manages 30 team members and several profit centers and the various, creative ways he markets to and attracts both men AND women to his hair loss center. He also had good advice for those surgeons who want to buy a machine to add hair restoration to their cosmetic practice. Visit Dr. Bauman's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript:
Attracting Hair Loss Patients — with Alan J. Bauman, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and attracting hair loss patients. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant of plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today I have a special guest that's a little different than normal, and it's Dr. Alan Bauman, who's a full-time hair transplant surgeon in Boca Raton, Florida, who is an expert at attracting hair loss patients. Now, he's treated over 30,000 patients and performed over 10,000 hair transplant surgeries, due to his ability at attracting hair loss patients, to date in his 12,000 square foot facility called Baumann Medical Hair Transplant and Hair Loss Treatment Center. Now, Dr. Bauman's, the author of numerous articles and textbook chapters on the science of Hair transplantation, which is a testament to his ability at attracting hair loss patients, including eyelash transplant surgery, and he's a frequently invited faculty member at scientific meetings, live surgery workshops and major beauty industry events. Now, interestingly, and we need to talk about this, he was named, top five transformational CEOs and one of the top 10 CEOs transforming healthcare in America by Forbes. How's that? So, Dr. Bauman's also a founding member of the Bauman Philanthropic Foundation, focusing on assisting active US military veterans to improve mental health, physical health, and preventing PTs D related suicide. Dr. Baumann, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you. Alan J. Bauman, MD: Catherine, it's great to be here. Thank you so, much for having me today. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, we just have to start with how and when did you decide to go all in on hair restoration? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, it's a, it's a great story. Now remember that if you ask my grandmother when I decided to go to medical school, as she would've said when she was alive the day he was born. So, you know, the story starts pretty early, but I never thought I was going to go into hair transplantation through medical school or even the beginning of my residency training. I always thought plastic surgery was going to be my first love. It was my first love. I first got introduced to surgery. Through a plastic surgeon in Manhattan who was a close friend of the family. He let me watch procedures and see patients with him. I shadowed him for many, many years off and on, and he really introduced me to the psychiatry with a knife side of medicine, which is really what cosmetic surgery is all about, making people look good and feel great. I loved the work that he did, the way he handled his patients, the surgical skill. It was all just fantastic. But I didn't really think about hair at all until I met a hair transplant patient. And I didn't know he was a hair transplant patient until I was looking at his medical history. And so, I was doing an intake for a plastic surgeon at that time. And he was getting some other procedure and this patient had hair transplantation listed on his previous surgical history. And I'm looking at him trying to figure out, Where are the plugs? Because in the mid 1990s, I thought all hair transplants were supposed to be plugin. Like, why would you ever bother with that? And so, that's kind of what I was expecting and, and obviously his results were far different. And so, it was a brief conversation I had with him. He told me about first of all, he was super excited to learn that I didn't know he had a hair transplant or that I couldn't detect it. And then he was also super excited to tell me about the technology that was used at that time, which was just coming of age, single follicle implantation, follicular unit transplantation to create artistically. Beautiful, aesthetically pleasing hairlines that looked a hundred percent undetectable and certainly fooled me. And he was excited too, know that. And then the other thing that struck me was really how it changed his life. So, he began to tell me how his whole life turned around socially and professionally. After he had his hair transplant. So, that kind of started me on my journey you know, which led me basically a globe-trotting and, and practice trotting around the world to different conferences and to different experts in the field the, you know, and everything from reading textbooks to journals and things like that. And then finally finding a mentor in hair transplantation. And I finally opened up my own practice. Well, obviously I got bit by the hair bug and I did not go through completely with plastic surgery. And I did 100% full-time board-certified hair restoration surgery for the past 25 years. So, in the mid 1990s, I came down to Florida, opened up my practice. I moved my furniture my wife, we were engaged at the time, and I opened up the practice here in Boca Raton. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how important was location for, for hair restoration? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, I thought I was going to be either a plastic surgeon or maybe even that hair transplant surgeon on the upper East side of Manhattan. That's just where my mentor was and that seemed like a good spot. He did well. I thought maybe I would be joining his practice and I just always thought that that's where I was going to be. My parents lived in Jersey. I grew up on the East Coast College in California Medical school in New York. That's where I did all of my training, hair transplant training out on Long Island and other places. And I just thought that New York City was going to be where I was going to be. And I had a business plan. I was ready to, to take action, take a loan, and get it started. And I, I blamed my mother-in-law because I was on vacation with my wife, my fiancé at the time, And we were staying at her mom's place. She had just recently been remarried and moved to Boca and. Karen's stepfather was a financial planner and he asked me what was I intending to do both in marriage and also in business. And we got to talking about. What was good about South Florida, and I said, well, tell me more about this retirement community. And he says, well, it's, you know, it's not exactly like that now anymore. And remember this is in the mid 1990s. And so, he challenged me to put a few different numbers from the you know Hypothetical situation into the business plan. And of course, it was the middle of winter and the palm trees were swaying and the ocean breeze was blowing and the sun was shining. And so, you know, there were a couple of different things that happened in that short vacation. But basically, once I crunched the numbers, I could see that, especially taking a personal loan, a business loan, It would be a lot easier to do it in Boca. And my research included opening the phone book, remember those? Yeah. And seeing all of the cosmetic procedures and, and surgeons obviously that were being you know, promoted down here in south Florida. I knew it was a vanity capital for sure, so, it wasn't like I would have to, and, and also hair transplant capital was probably the busiest, most competitive. Area per capita in the country for hair transplant surgery. I mean, there were literally pages and pages and pages in the phone book of hair transplant surgeons. And so, I figured actually that was a good thing, that I didn't have to reinvent the wheel, that people kind of knew what a hair transplant was. I was confident in the technology. I was confident in the in the weather. And we, we packed the car and moved down six months later. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. So, how do you enter the marketplace? It was, it's a lot different now, but how did you enter it then? Did you go solo right away? Did you buy a building, rent it, go in with someone else? How, what was that like? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah, so, you know, I didn't really know which way was more appropriate or not. I knew that I really didn't want to be a part of another practice. My dad is a dentist and he always said, you know, you should be autonomous. You should be your own boss. And so, I always thought I would be not with another practice, but, but opening up my own individually. And so, that was my goal. And I started out with a thousand square foot facility. It was sublease rental space and, you know, restaurant on one side and an ob/gyn upstairs and a hair salon around the corner overlooking the lake in Boca. It was, it's a beautiful location, still is a beautiful location. At the time it was called Wharf Side. I had zero employees. My wife, who's a, has a degree in marketing but never used it. And the degree. In Education? No, she never used it. Oh, she had a degree in education. She was a teacher professionally. I said, listen, I need your help to answer these phones because I can't afford any, any staff at this time. So, she would man the phones and I did the consultations and we brought in the teams to do, help me do the procedures when we booked them that first year. And so, I would say that to get the patients going the patient flow was not an easy task, and I didn't really understand before I got into it how hard it was going to be. You know, I, I had many discussions with my dad who was an entrepreneur and my grandfather also, and my dad said, join the Chamber of Commerce. And I said, well, what do they do inside the chamber? So, eventually I learned that it was obviously networking. And so, I became just, you know, commonly appearing at all different charity events. I became embedded into the volunteer organizations here in Boca Raton. I became well connected with the business community. I. Early on and you know, I, I didn't have a budget for advertising, so, I had to go literally door to door to explain to people what hair transplant was and, and what I thought I could bring to the table. And I, I worked with many plastic surgeons locally because the ones that didn't do hair transplants, sometimes they were causing more hair loss. So, I got them out of a lot of trouble and I became a resource for plastic surgeons and dermatologists didn't really know what to do or how to handle hair. Hair loss patients at that time. So, I became a resource for the prominent dermatology clinics here locally. I became a resource for hair salons, stylists, barbers in the men's side and also in the women's side. They were referring people who were complaining of thinning and shedding and breakage. And I would handle those cases and then return them, obviously back to the salon or the barbershop with a heck of a lot more hair. And so, the practice built slowly but surely. I guess I would say I'm always been kind of a, a puzzle. Puzzle person. You know, I like solving problems, so, trying to solve the problems of, of, you know, gaining more patients at the time, you know, attract, educating and attracting patients to the practice who were good candidates for our procedures and treatments. I was lucky that the local large clinics were doing infomercial radio or infomercial and radio advertising, like nonstop, so, people knew that hair loss and hair restoration was a thing. I just had to prove how different it was. And my skillset. Wow. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how much patience did you have to have? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Like how many years did it take for you to get to the point where you were comfortable with what you were doing? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, comfortable well, I was already comfortable obviously with the technology that I had. My two hands, no financial, not open up the practice, but yeah, so, financially we broke even in less than five years. So, I had the loan paid back. We expanded from a thousand square feet to 3000 square feet. I was able to go from one operatory to two operatories. I built the second one, and then my team expanded from a part-time team to a full-time team. And then we expanded to 5,000 square feet in the in that same subleased space. And this was prior to the, to the market crash of 2008. And I just knew right around that time. Maybe it was just the way I was being treated by the landlord. Maybe it was just the, you know, the market and such. But what I realized was that I was paying a heck of a lot of rent. Yeah. I was dealing with a lot of problems with the parking. I was dealing with crazy things. Like they put a pill mill into the center where I was located, which was crazy. And I just felt like out of control, like it wasn't under my control. And I said, you know what? Maybe this is a sign that I need to look for my own space. And so, I took that opportunity. To start saving for essentially what would be the down payment for a building. And it took me a couple of years to save that you know, actually many years to save it up. I knew I had the, the cash flow to support the mortgage payments. I. And I went shopping. So, it took a couple of years. I found a beautiful building that we're in right now. Not without some trauma and some difficulty, but you know, and that's probably a whole another story for a whole another podcast of how I got my education in real estate. Right. But let's just, let's just say it was not a simple process to. Acquire the building to refurb the building and then to get the approvals from the city to allow me to use the building for medical use, even though it was zoned for business. So, I got a legal education. I got a political education. I got a real estate education all on the side. As a part-time gig in addition to running a full-time hair transplant practice. Yeah. What? But here we are today. So, 12,000 square feet facility. I have five fully operational ORs. Some of those ORs are used for regenerative treatments and procedures. I have three providers. It's myself plus, Another hair transplant surgeon, plastic surgeon, who's been around for 30 years. I have a nurse practitioner. We've just added another nurse practitioner who'll be joining us within the next couple of weeks, and I've expanded the practice to include not only hair loss and hair restoration, but also scalp health. So, I have an entire department and a certified psychologist specifically for scalp health. We have a head spott, a triology lab. We also do cranial prosthetic devices for those who are not candidates for hair transplants. As I mentioned, a lot of regenerative treatments like P r P and other therapies like exosome treatments, PDO grow, and stem cell type therapies for hair loss has been a part of the practice for many, many years. And you mentioned in the intro, eyelash eyebrow transplants, scar coverage. The pro bono work that we do with Grey Team and such has been you know, some of the shining stars of, of what's been done as well as innovate. The technology, like minimally invasive hair transplants which is exclusively, exclusively what we do today in the practice. We don't do any linear or strip harvesting whatsoever. It's all f u e and we dovetail that with a functional medicine analysis, a holistic approach to hair loss. 50% of the patients are women, 50% of the patients are men. Not every woman is a good candidate for hair transplants, obviously, but we do have other pathways for them to grow thicker, stronger, healthier hair, and you know, being able to tap into even longevity. An aesthetics is something that we are doing now. So, I have a full-time aesthetician who does some body contouring treatments, skin tightening treatments, laser hit removal, and the, and the like. And that's been extremely successful for us just with the in, in-house patients that we are treating. And the, and you know, the functional medicine part of the practice, you know, in longevity is also you know, coming up to speed. Catherine Maley, MBA: Who's managing all of this? Because you, I mean, not only did you get legal and real estate experience, but now you have to get leadership experience. How are, how, gimme some tips about like how you're hiring, how you're managing, how you're keeping everyone motivated. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? You have a lot of pieces, you know, talk about a puzzle. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah. You got a lot of pieces there. So, Mo Yeah. M moving from a 5,000 square foot office space to a 12,000 square foot building was definitely a challenge for us initially in terms of communication. Making sure that the administrative side was communicating well with the surgical side and patient flow was not being interrupted or bottlenecked in any of the specific departments. It just, traffic control was literally a, a, a problem in the, in the office with being so, separated. I mean, I went. 3000 square feet, 5,000 square feet, I could hear the patient entering the front door and I could hear from most of the places except the, or what the conversations were. So, I kind of already knew what was happening without having to have any kind of additional electronic communication. So, when you have a 12,000 square foot office, one of the first things we had to do is get headsets, which, you know, we didn't even think about until we moved into the building. We're like, oh my God, we need like traffic control. And so, you know, today it's like, of course we do. But so, I a couple of years back I hired a COO, a Chief Operating Officer, and he worked you know, I guess it was, he was a full-time for several years and he was a well-established kind of coo o for hire. And he was referred by a number of people here locally through my connections in the business world, specifically in, in the world of healthcare. He did a couple of turnaround projects and he was just a, a seasoned. Professional in the world of business. And so, that was really, really helpful to have him on hand to kind of help get us organized. And what we did at that moment is we elevated. Leaders in each of the different categories and, and I would say departments, if you will, in the practice into a core leadership team or a leadership team that could meet on a regular basis and help manage and communicate with each other about the problems and work on solutions. So, it didn't always, so, it wouldn't fall on my shoulders. To deal with HR, to deal with the scheduling, to deal with surgical, to deal with the patient flow. And that was one of the main things that we changed. Pretty quickly. With the COO, he's, no, actually, he's, he's passed away since he's no longer with the practice. He retired back to his hometown and then, and passed away. He had a, a chronic disease, but the point is, is that it was a, a critical step to have someone, and he was certainly a coach to me. He was a like I said, had a lot of experience in the world of business and so. I didn't know that I needed it at the time, but it was super helpful and he organized so, many different things that are still in process today. Maybe evolved, but, but, but certainly initiated a lot of those programs and procedures that we have. Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you replace him with another COO? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: I didn't the leadership, the leadership team is managing things in a, in a, in an expeditious fashion right now. So, I'm very happy with the way the leadership team works. We're very transparent in those meetings. My director of finance presents all of the data and financials to the team, and they report on each of their departments on every, you know, problems from logistics to budget, to Physical facility and things like that. And we're actually going to be starting another phase of construction again, I swore I would never do it after the original one. But you know, we're going to, we're going to reconfigure some of our spaces to accommodate more patient care areas. And those other, some of those other departments are expanding that I had previously mentioned, like the aesthetics and the salon trichology department and our functional medicine department. So, each of them needs a little bit more space. Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord. So, what are your plans to grow? Because I'm hearing aesthetic, but it's a completely different animal than the hair restoration. So, how are you, how are you going to manage all that? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, my, my aesthetician is also a very, a seasoned veteran in the in the sphere. So, you know, I mean, she's gotten busier. Certainly. We're not looking to be all things to all people, but certainly patients who come to us for hair restoration understand our patient-centered point of view. And our focus on results and the latest technology and patient comfort and safety. So, that kind of encapsulates what it means to be at the Baumann Medical Facility. And if I, you know, a patient comes in and says, oh, Yeah. Well, hey Doc, do you know somebody to help me out here? I need a little, you know, maybe some tightening in my Turkey neck. You know, we'll, hey, go talk to Blanca, my aesthetician and see if there's something that we can do with RF micro needling or some other treatments that she might have under her belt. And if not, we'll refer you on. But let's see if we can do something less invasive. Gotcha. Even though I, I have an associate who's a plastic surgeon, he's not going to be doing any plastic surgery work here. You know, maybe short of Botox or injectables, things like that if we do that. But probably nothing more than that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there a plan to add more services because you had 12,000 square feet. I can't imagine how many people you need to fill that thing up and the revenues you need to make all that work. Are you thinking about other profit centers? I, it sounds like you are, you have a lot of different profit centers, right? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Is the point to take that hair restoration patient and introduce more services to them or try new markets? Like what's your strategy there? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: No, I think I just, what, what I've found over the years, like for example, treating many women who are dealing with hair loss, for example perimenopausal post-menopausally or other hormone imbalance while they're of childbearing age, you know, we've come across a lot of endocrine abnormalities and a lot of issues really in terms of lifestyle. So, it's nice to be able to have someone to refer to for that. And it's also nice to have a little bit of that in-house. And so, my nurse practitioner has handled a lot of that here in the office. She handles a lot of our female patients who are dealing with some of those issues and bringing on another nurse practitioner who's specifically trained. In endocrinology and functional medicine, I think we'll be able to handle that. So, it's, it's kind of like, we're not really like looking to break new ground. I'm just looking, you know, these are things that are happening, we just can't even ignore. You know, patients come in, for example, with a side effect from monoxide. They have a little bit of extra, you know, a little bit extra hair here or there. Most guys are tuning up their hair for their scalp, but they may need a little bit of hair removal on their neck or their shoulders. And so, it's natural as they're putting on their. Gallon for the procedure. Hey, you know, did you ever think about doing some laser hair removal in that area? Or are women who are having maybe a side effect from the treatments that are growing amazing hair on their scalp and they have a little bit of extra hair, you know, in the sideburn area, you know, or on their arm or they're already been doing laser hair removal and having that in the practice. They know they're going to get that in the Bauman way. You know, all the things that we said, you know, in the core philosophies of how we do things. And so, they feel very comfortable with us and the team. You know, we have a very cohesive team at the practice and you know, and that's one of the things that makes some of these 11-hour days go so, fast is that the team is amazing. And I wouldn't be able to do what I do without the team. I mean, I had 30 team members, so, it's, it's just an amazing family that we have right now. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, dear Lord, that that's a lot of people. What, so, let's, what's up with the Forbes calling you the, one of the top 10 CEOs in that are going to transform the healthcare industry in America? What's that all about? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: So, that's a great question. You know, why would they give me that designation? Yeah. I became a trans, I became in their radar as a transformative c e o because what I was doing was different than what had come before. You know, they're looking for business leaders, just like, you know, when I was awarded a small business leader the year from Book Raton Chamber of Commerce no physician or surgeon had ever won that award previously. In the history of Boca Raton Chamber of Commerce. And so, I was proud to receive that award and still proud to be acknowledged by Forbes because you know, you, you never think that going to medical school and getting an MD that you're going to be featured in Forbes Magazine. So, certainly my mom was pretty happy about that. Hi mom. But so, what I was doing, I think, and you can read it in the articles, certainly up there online was something that was a little bit different and out of the box. And so, when they're talking about transforming industries or trans transforming, I, I always thought about it as transforming patients, right? Because what we are doing at Baler Medical when we restore someone's hair is we're transforming their life. Because if you have hair loss you know, a, a bad hair day turns into a bad hair, weak or bad hair year or bad hair life. And so, when you restore someone's head of hair, they look great and they feel great. And they're eternally grateful for that as long as it's done properly and you're helping them maintain the look. So, being transformative according to Forbes has a lot of different meanings, and so, I was a top five transformative c e o because I was transforming patients, I was also transforming the industry. A lot of the technologies that I brought to our patients were things that the traditional hair transplant surgeon may not have thought of when they were undergoing their training or even in their days of practice. For example, I brought red light therapy, low level laser light therapy photo biomodulation devices, even though they weren't called that at the time into the practice in 1999. And my patient results from laser light therapy were the first results ever presented. The first "before and afters" ever presented on laser light therapy at the International Society of Hair Surgery. And so, bringing technology like that today, it's common knowledge that the meta-analysis of the double-blind randomly clinical trials for red light therapy and hair growth, you know, it's kind of signed and sealed and if you don't believe it, it just means you didn't read the papers or haven't seen them, you know, because you've been in your silo. But red-light therapy has a powerful effect on skin anti-inflammatory, pro healing, pro hair growth, of course. So, we've known that for decades now in the practice, but many surgeons blew it off. They thought, how could red light do anything? We didn't learn about that in medical school. And I'll be the first to tell you, neither did I, but I knew about the physics and I did the research, meaning I dug into the technologies and I got the in contact with the Russian researchers who did the, did the research and I was able to have their research translated into English and I read it and I understood how biochemically this worked. And I spoke to the people who were getting results. And the rest is history on that. And obviously, you know, today you can go on Amazon and get a red-light device for hair growth. All of the devices that we use in the practice are medical grade ones, but there's other things that we've transformed the industry as well, like how we take care of patients after their procedure with postoperative washes. You know, thousands of patients go to Turkey every single day for a hair transplant, and then they're home on the plane bleeding in their bandages. Well, that's not something that we're proud of in the industry. Most of those clinics are not run by physicians or surgeons. They're run by, you know, folks that were, you know, planting rice just you know, a couple of months ago. So, at the practice we take people from the start of their procedure all the way through their healing phase. So, we get them healed in less time than ever before. It's 50% of the time, it used to be 10 or 15 years ago, they're basically completely healed four or five days out from their procedure. So, we're transforming the way that the technology is being used. We've transformed the way that Harris harvested. We're not using linear harvesting anymore. As I mentioned before, all minimally invasive hair transplant surgery. And yes, we've used robotic instrumentation and other instruments in the newest, latest, and greatest handheld mechanical devices to do that. Harvesting the latest and greatest instruments to make tiny incisions in the scalp. To implant. The hair follicles are not made with steel. They're made with sapphire glass today. So, you know, these are all things that we've added as well as cell therapy, regenerative medicine, exosome therapy and quickly we'll have micro-RNA and mRNA and, and, and slow interfering RNA to help with hair regrowth as well. All of that technology is coming of age and we plan to use it and improve it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay, so, you are on top of this hair situation and what, like, what's the stat for baldness, male baldness? Like how, what's the stat? Because it's really good right? For your, for you. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: So, I mean, what they'd say is that there's probably 80 million Americans out there who are struggling with hair loss. 50, 50 million men and 30 million women. I think it's probably undercounted. Those are statistics from the American Hair Loss Association. But, and there's many, many others that have hair thinning or other scalp issues, right? And that's why, you know, we have scalp treatments in the office and things like that. I have an entire department to keep scalp health on point, but 20% of men in their twenties, 30% of men in their thirties, 40% of men in their forties, 50% of men in their fifties are going to have some visible signs of hair loss. And by the time you're age 65, 80% of all people are going to have hair loss and you're going to have it at some point in your life. In most cases at war, some kind of scalp health issue. So, the, I think if you're looking at the marketplace, it's huge. And if you believe any of the, the market analyses that you see on Google, I don't know if you can or not, but they all show, you know, a very, very huge increase in the average rate of return and of, of course on the on the growth rates in those, in those categories not just here in the United States, but also globally, you know, and they, and some of the estimates are between 18 and 24% C A G R. So, It's a, it's an exploding industry. It's exciting to be in the field at this time. Of course, we're in the post pandemic zoom and boom era, so, everybody who's working from the neck up is busier now than they ever were. And it's just a weird thing that now everybody's looking at themselves on their phone or on their TV screen or on their computer screen and are seeing themselves in the mirror, whereas most guys probably, you know, got dressed in the dark, combed their hair and went out the door, you know now they're seeing themselves live and in person on a screen. Maybe they may not be so, happy about it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that leads us into marketing and the competition because you do have a huge demand. But when there's a huge demand here comes the supply. So, a lot of people jump in to take advantage of that. So, what's your marketing strategy? How are you, how are you differentiating yourself from everyone else? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah. So, in the early days, you know, 25 years ago the marketing strategy was based on a $0 budget. And so, I, I couldn't do much, you know, And so, I had to leverage time and the dollars that I had to get exposure to the practice I to educate patients about what we were doing and how we were doing it. And that's why I pounded the pavement because I basically, you know, couldn't pay for a, a magazine ad at the time, which w you know, I. Eventually we did it. But I would say that the best advertising for my pa, for my practice are my patients. Because most of our patients today come from word of mouth. They don't come in from some, you know, clever marketing campaign or some ad campaign. We do like to keep our name out there. I'm excited about what we do. I write. Two to three emails a week to my patient base. I have, you know, a database of, you know, 30 to 50,000 patients that re and others that receive my emails as well as all of our certified hair coaches that we've trained over time. And you know I've worked very closely with the media to get the word out. I felt that that was a force a force multiplier, if you will. So, you know as you read in the bio, I've been featured on hundreds and hundreds of news stories hundreds and hundreds over the years. Every major morning news show live on the air I've been on Dateline NBC, I've been featured in Men's Health Magazine when it was actually a magazine. Maxim obviously, and things like that. The local news has been great be why do they come to me asking what's new? It's because I'm known for knowing what's new and I'm known through my patients and the word of mouth that we get excellent, exceptional results and we do it with great care and great quality but also great compassion. And I think that's been the key, but certainly we, you know, we have our fingertips in social media. You know, I always think we could be doing better there. You know, I'm not so, consistent on my own. Instagram accounts. I have a I have a, a coordinator, a communications coordinator in-house full-time obviously. And also, we have a new social media coordinator. So, that's, she's very new in the practice, but, so, I think that we're going to kind of be getting that up to speed a little bit more consistently. But You know, just about, just about everything that you can think of. You know, we have something there. I even do cable TV ads, to be honest. And I thought I would never, ever do a cable TV ad because I was born and raised on the Bosley infomercials and I always thought, oh, that'll never be me. It's not a neighborhood. Catherine Maley, MBA: When I first got into this industry 23 years ago, I lived in San Francisco right off of Union Street and Bosley was there and I thought, and he had the hair plugs and I thought, I don't think those looks very good. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? And it's, it's amazing how much this industry has changed. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Oh yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: But you know what I mean? I, you, you surprised me by saying word of mouth because I mean, I just, my, my belief is men don't talk about it. And obviously I'm wrong. Then they must be talking about it because I've always thought it's a tough, that's a tough one and done kind of guy. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? You know? My belief is, and apparently, it's wrong. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: But what, what do you think? Yeah, I've got, I've got one sentence for that. And that's not 1999 anymore. These guys are not a hundred percent public about it, but they will share with their friends and their family a lot more than they ever did. So, I think it's a lot easier now to talk about it and I, I have a patient today who is finishing off his procedure. We had a small little bit of work extra to do this morning, so, it was a short day for him and he was, he says he has a big business meeting in a week and I assured him that he's going to be clean and ready for that. He'll be able to get a haircut right before, and he says, well, do I need to wear a hat? During the next couple of days, I said, well, if you don't want anybody to know, of course you're going to have to wear a hat. And especially if you're outside in the sun. And he says, well, no, I don't care. I said, well, what do you mean? He's like, well, I, I'm, I don't care if anybody knows, I'm going to tell everybody. Wow. And so, I hear that more often now than I ever did before. And I don't know if it's just because there's such a plethora of information out there on social media or that it's just okay to talk about hair loss now and. You know, back in the early days, that was the whole point of getting out there on the TV news and you know, and the radio shows and, and now even the podcasts telling guys, Hey, this is okay. You can, you can, like, we can talk about this. I mean, you know, women have all kinds of makeup and camouflage to fix themselves, to make them look different. What do we have? We don't have anything, you know, we got to wake up and come to work. And so, hair is an important bit of business and but let's talk about that. And so, I think, you know, I can't say, I can't say I take responsibility or credit for that, but certainly it was in my goal back in 1999 when I was thinking about these you know, the shows and, and what to say and what to do on the air and, and the interviews and even in front of my patients, you know, and, and lectures and seminars that I've given, like, Hey, look, let's, you know, this is, this is really not taboo. Let's talk about hair loss and hair restoration, and. You know, I mean, that's just the way that it is. So, there's been a lot of really nice changes in that regard. So, a lot of men are talking to their stylist about it. They're talking to their barber about it. And women as well, of course, have always shared the secrets of beauty with each other. So, I think that's why we had so, many women in the practice in the early stages of, of the. Of the process, not just that we had good results with them, with our medical therapies but that we were careful and compassionate with them and got them to good results, you know, without maybe having to do too much surgery. And they told a lot of friends and so, it's always been like kind of a 50 50 thing, but I think, yeah, word of mouth. Absolutely. And today, 25 years in our patients are sending in their 20-year-old you know, sons and daughters. Catherine Maley, MBA: What's the marketing message? Because I, in the old days, they used to talk about it was always like the red four show with the gorgeous blonde that you're going to get when you get hair. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? You know, it was all about sex appeal. What do men really want? Why are they doing this? Do you know? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, for sure the sex appeal is a big portion of it. Many of our men are coming in maybe recently divorced or they're, you know, in a new chapter of their life. I was on a virtual call. About 50% of my patients come in virtually, meaning I see them on Zoom before they physically come into the office for a surgical or regenerative procedure. So, yes, definitely a change in life status certainly is a trigger. You know, just around the same time that they're buying their red Corvette maybe they're thinking about their hair. If they're reentering you know, the wild, so, to speak, and getting out there on a Friday night. But, you know, most guys today, I think that they just want their profile picture to look different because, you know, they're not going out to the bar. It's, it's a totally different world from what I've heard. I don't know. But that's just what they tell me. They want to look good and feel good about it. And so, it's, it's a lot more about self-confidence. And that confidence is what's sexy if you think about it. Right? Because if you did something, whether it's, you know, Working out at the gym, you lost that extra 10 pounds. You know, you even get that nice new haircut or a little bit more color back into your hair with a rinse. You know, you, you're just walking on like another inch taller at that moment. And that's what hair does for guys. They just look good and feel great. I know I feel great after a haircut. I feel like I'm walking on air. So, you know, having not to struggle with your hair I think is a big thing that a lot of these guys say. But yes, also professionally, so, I was talking to someone yesterday on a virtual consultation who mentioned that he was in a technology field and he's in the boardroom physically now in the boardroom with a lot of guys who are. Age wise, a lot younger. And you know, he doesn't want to look like that aging guy. He doesn't want to look like the guy who's the oldest guy in the room, you know, because in the world of tech whether it's biotech, FinTech, whatever you want to call it, You know, you don't want to be like the next guy on the, on the plank, you know, jumping off into the, into the sharks. You know, you don't want to look like that guy and you don't want to be that guy. And even though your, maybe your ideas are worthwhile, you want to make sure you have the confidence and the skillset to exude that youthful vigor. And honestly, that's, that's a big part of it as well. Guys want to look the part. Catherine Maley, MBA: A lot of surgeons that I know. We're talked into or wanted the laser, and I won't say which one, but it, you know, hair restoration laser. And they're told, oh, this is going to sell itself. The marketplace is huge. You're, this is going to be fantastic. And what happens is it's a completely new market for them. They're used to the cosmetic female patient who shares and they understand them better. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? And now they're opening up a whole new market. And I say to them, Just please have a marketing plan because they're not just going to show up. Some of them will come because their wives want them to come. But otherwise, I think it takes mass advertising efforts to find that group who now has to come to your practice and it, but it's a female practice and now they're uncomfortable. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Its kind of thing. Like what would be your advice for somebody who wants to get into this kind of as a hobby or as just another profit center in their typical cosmetic plastic surgery practice? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Right. So, if you're in the world of cosmetic procedures and treatments whether you run Medi spas or whether you're a plastic surgeon doing procedures on women or men, it may seem super attractive to work into the field of hair restoration. It may seem super attractive to you to work into the field of erectile dysfunction, but of course you can imagine more easily how many barriers to entry. Erectile dysfunction might be you know, if you're running a cosmetic practice for women and now you have to switch gears and talk about that bit of business. Hair is very much the same in those ways. You know, if you, if you have been sold a bill of goods by a laser manufacturer, for example, or even a robotic hair transplant device manufacturer, you know, you have to be very careful because hair restoration, there is a lot of nuances. And this is not something you can just run and jump and add on, like a bolt on thing on your practice, you know, like an extra horn on your car and you're off and running. This requires some effort and energy and, and just like you said, many practices are just simply not geared up for that. So. I would encourage you to at least take some kind of class and we, we offer hair coach classes. And hair coach classes could be tailored to the beauty industry. They could be tailored to estheticians; they could be tailored to Medi spas. They could be tailored to surgeons. People who have been in practice for 30 years doing one thing are now taking hair coach classes because they want to learn how to add, for example, P r p that works into their practice for hair growth and what they've tried hasn't worked. You know, so, I think that taking a class like that and we offer that, like even just the Bauman p r p class and you know, Bauman PRP class.com is where people go to get information on that. But, you know, we, we run those classes more routinely prior to the pandemic. Now we're running, coming up to speed again. But that gives someone who's thinking about hair an introduction. To hair loss, hair restoration. What to say, what to do. I mean, I'm just boggled by how many people will do P R P treatments on a patient that they've never gotten a complete diagnosis on and even and without a diagnosis, and then also never measured their hair. Much less photographed it, forget about it, but measured their hair. Like how can you put somebody on a weight loss program without like weighing them? You would never put somebody on a blood pressure medication without taking their blood pressure. How would you put them on a hair growth treatment? Something that takes, could be a year to see the results in the mirror that they have to be compliant with without measuring a baseline. Or at least coming up with an adequate diagnosis. So, these are things that still boggle my mind. I'm not going to say that it's simple and easy to add it onto the practice, but my team and I had a lot of success with physicians who are looking to add hair restoration treatments and procedures. And in fact, we are developing. Payer restoration treatment and procedure protocols for a very, very large medical group in the country. And unfortunately, I can't tell you due to a non-disclosure at this moment, who that group is, but they have six thou close to 6,000 physicians. Once we get the training program up and running, there will be 6,000 physicians in that, in that practice. And they're going to learn exactly what to say and what to do, what tools to have on hand to help men and women who are struggling with hair loss. And so, it's not about the, the device or the gimmick or this p r p or the centrifuge. You have to take a more holistic approach and then figure out what works for you. What works in your practice and what you can and cannot do, because if you're doing breast dogs and blepharoplasties and facelifts, things like that, you're probably not going to be able to do a 20-man hour hair transplant in your practice. At least not right off the bat. So, you better be prepared to have connections and contacts either locally or distant distantly, whether it's me or another board-certified hair restoration physician who can help you out with some tougher cases. You know, the neurologist refers, you know, it can take care of the headaches, but if you need neuro, if you need neurosurgery, you got to go to the neurosurgeon. If you need a brain surgery, you know, That's just the way that it is. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it sounds like you're pretty entrepreneurial. Is that, like, would you, do you like the business and the marketing side a lot, like enough to step away from working in your practice? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? It sounds like you like to work on your practice. What are your feelings about that or where are you heading with this? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, I'm one of, probably one of the busiest two-handed surgeons in the country because I do over 250, almost 300 cases a year. I operate every day, five days a week one to three cases depending on the size and the scope of the case. Have I worked on the practice? Well, yeah. I've always worked on the practice because if you don't work on the practice, then you don't have a practice and you learn that very quickly. I don't see myself stepping away from surgery ever. I love surgery. I, I guess I was an entrepreneur because I went off the beaten path. I did something that, you know, no one told me to be, you know, maybe you should consider going in with someone and building a, a patient base or something before you start your own practice. I mean, I, I didn't think of that, you know, I was just naive and, but luckily, I had the fortitude to, to push through all of those you know barriers and stumbling blocks, right? And but I'm a problem solver and I like to solve problems not just in the business but also surgically and also with products and devices that we've innovated. I have my own product line, so, I guess that's entrepreneurial. But I developed my products because I didn't like what was out there on the market. I didn't, I didn't want to take them myself, and so, I sought out appropriate ingredients. I sought out the right mixtures, the right balance for hair loss, for men, for women. I sought out things that were needed during the pandemic. I sought out an immune booster because we treated over a thousand covid related hair loss patients. And then don't get me started on mRNA vaccinations. You know, it's a big problem out there and it's still going on. Thankfully you know, it's, it's waning. But the amount of hair follicle dysregulation and autoimmune conditions that have been triggered by the spike protein, I'll leave it at that is off the charts and under reported. I have patients, you know. But anyway, the point is, is that yes, I'm entrepreneurial, I like to problem solve and I'm also a communicator at heart. I told you I write three emails a week to my patients. And so, I do a lot of writing and a lot of do, I guess I do. So, they say when you do a lot of writing, you do a lot of thinking, and so, you can't really do one without the other. So, all of that is all that, that is fun. Do I wish I had a little bit more? Free time or, you know, more of a balance? Yeah, I mean, I, I try to squeeze more into less in all aspects of my life. I've I'm a bit of a biohacker, although that, you know, some people don't necessarily love that term. I'm a longevity buff. I've worked on my sleep patterns, my feeding schedule. I've worked on my supplement regimen. You know, I, I try to take care of myself as best I can. Because I have to be an optimal performance to operate at the level that I just told you. Right? 250, 300 surgeries a year, but also run the practice with over 30 team members. And the other parts of the business are consulting business, the hair coach program, the Bauman Institute program, my nonprofit hobbies you know, and my family. Two kids. One kid graduated college, the other one in college right now. And coming up on my 25th anniversary, wedding anniversary this year. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, she stuck with you. That's fantastic. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: And is she still working in the practice or did you retire her? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Karen retired at the eight and a half month point in her pregnancy with our first child. Perfect. So, so, that was yeah, that was 22 and a half years ago. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God, that's amazing. All in all, what would you say is the biggest challenge of running your own practice? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Gosh. Well, trying to find time. Well, first of all, I think the biggest challenge for me personally has been over the years letting go of some of the things that I used to do myself, right? So, when you're in a thousand square foot facility with one operatory and zero employees, a 100% of everything is you. And letting my team as it's grown over the years, Establish themselves and to gain confidence in their own leadership and their own management, management skills. And not saying, letting them, you know, like a child, you let them fail, right? But but let them kind of work through the problems to the best of their ability before you kind of jump in and rescue them. I think has been a, a valuable lesson for me and I, and sometimes I still do, still struggle with letting go of some of the things. You know, I probably do too much. Maybe some of things on the admin side, and I probably should just let somebody else handle that. But, you know, I also, I'm very detail oriented in that way. I'm, I'm kind of meticulous you asked about marketing and communications, like, you know, if you're not meticulous about that, it can drift very easily. And if you outsource some of that stuff then the message becomes off mark, off the mark. And I've always tried to maintain a very, very consistent. Core philosophy, developed core values for my employees and the way that we treat each other and the way that we treat our patients, and I think that was really, really important. But I would say the challenge day to day is just trying to get everything squeezed into that regular day, you know, however long that day might be. And, and sometimes it goes very long, right? Because you, you know, I didn't even mention the workout regimen and all of that stuff that we're doing. But anyway, those are, you know, those are all things that you have to do as a business owner, as a human who want, I, I mean, look, I've done it for 25 years. I want to do it for another 25. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Well, you're off to a very good start. So, last question, because I know you have a time delay, a time issue here. Tell us something we don't know about you. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Something that you don't know Well, my current most favorite hobby is being a volunteer medical director for Grey Team. www.GreyTeam.org is a 5 0 1 organization based here in Boca Raton with a physical facility that helps take care of our active military and military veterans. And it, they do so, in a way that provides not just a social space to gather. But also, what would, I would say a wellness center that includes nutrition and fitness. Some of the other like alternative therapies to pharmaceuticals that they might find at the VA to get them out of pain, but most importantly, to help prevent P T S D related suicide. And you know, as a physician, I help you know, people's lives by restoring their hair. But as a patriot, I get the chance to help our military veterans and our active military. Maintain their health and wellness mentally, physically. And elevate them back into society and help sustain them and support them in a, in a way that is just being missed. I think by the current system, which is the VA, essentially. If they have a pain you know, an injury, whether it's mental or physical, they'll go to the VA and they'll come back with a, a goody bag of, of medication. So, that's kind of like Medicine 2.0. Right. Medicine 1.0 was like before antibiotics. Right. You know, we observed and then we did something, you know, with the spirits. And then we have antibiotics that's 2.0. And as a friend of mine, Dr. Peter Atilla says to have Medicine 3.0 is we try to take a little bit more of a proactive approach and we think maybe a little bit more about, you know, exercise and nutrition and figure out how to prescribe that more detail than like, just go exercise for X number of hours, you know? But anyway, so, working with those veterans is a way to help me honor those in my family who have served in the military. My grandfather, my uncle, both served in the Navy. I have not served myself personally but I do know the sacrifices that they made and our military continues to make to help us as American citizens. Maintain our freedoms and we send those guys out there. We turn young men into soldiers and put them in faraway lands and dangerous places so, that we don't have to face that kind of effort. And then, you know, and that, and that threat here at home and sometimes I think it's underappreciated. And so, that it's been a blessing to be able to help those folks elevate themselves mentally, physically, and otherwise. And also financially, because honestly, many of them, Come back, maybe debilitated they're on some medication for pain and then get caught up in substance abuse and things like that. And, and it's a downward spiral. So, if we can reverse that, then they become better family members, they become better citizens, they become better entrepreneurs perhaps, and maybe, you know, better part of the workforce and be contributing to society in a way. And I think we owe them that. That that gratitude, they owe them that courtesy. And since our current system really doesn't provide that you know, someone has to step up to do that. So, Grey Team is the way that I step up and do that. And it was founded by my very good friend Carrie Reich Bach, who is an ex-military. He was in the Army. And when he asked me to be the medical director, I, I just had to say yes. I, I couldn't say no. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I congratulate your efforts because it's, they're sorely needed, as you've noted. So, crazy. If somebody wanted to get ahold of you, what would be the best way? Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah, so, well first, you can always connect with me through www.BaumanMedical.com. I mean, that's like the central location, thousands of pages that I've written personally about hair loss and hair restoration over the years, all the different technologies. But if you have a question for me personally, you can go to www.BaumanMedical.com/ask and just ask anything. AMA…ask me whatever. I see all of those that come through. So, you can ask any question. If you're a surgeon, a physician, an aesthetician, you're not in the medical field at all. You're a barber, you're a stylist you're a hair loss potential patient, or maybe you've had some surgery and or hair restoration treatments and haven't really gotten the results that you want that would be a good place to start. Of course, you can find me on all the traditional social media, locations, platforms. I'm back on LinkedIn and I'm there on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, even TikTok even though I'm not a good TikTok yet. I haven't got my dance moves down, but yeah; you stay too. Yeah. You'll work on it. No, no, no. That's not me. I don't think it's going to be me, but maybe my team will help me. You know, I got 30 team members, so, somebody's got to know how to dance. Right, right. Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord. All right, thank you so, much. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on attracting hair loss patients. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Bauman, you can reach out to his website at, www.baumanmedical.com. A big thanks to Dr. Bauman for sharing his expertise on attracting hair loss patients. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Attracting Hair Loss Patients — with Alan J. Bauman, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #alanjbaumanmd #dralanjbauman #hairlosspatients #gethairlosspatients #attractinghairlosspatients | |||
| Buying Land & Building Practice from Scratch — with Edward D. Buckingham, MD (Ep. 208) | 02 Jun 2023 | 00:57:02 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying land & building a practice from scratch. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Buying Land & Building Practice from Scratch — with Edward D. Buckingham, MD". Deciding WHERE you do surgery is a big decision that affects your time, resources, profits and sanity. And the answer to that question changes as you change. For example:
That's usually when you start dreaming of taking back your life and enjoying autonomy to do surgery wherever and whenever you please, while even adding more surgeons to help pay for it if you choose. This week's Beauty of the Biz Podcast episode is an interview I did with Dr. Edward Buckingham. He's a facial plastic surgeon with a BA degree in accounting and in private practice, in a gorgeous new office in Austin, TX. He decided it was time to upscale and play a bigger game, so we talked about:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Buying Land & Building Practice from Scratch— with Edward D. Buckingham, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying land & building a practice from scratch. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is an interview I did with Dr. Edward Buckingham, who has a lot of experience buying land & building a practice from scratch. He's a facial plastic surgeon with a BA degree in accounting, which I'm sure we'll talk about, and he's in private practice in a gorgeous new office in Austin, Texas, which we will absolutely talk about. Now, Dr. Buckingham attended the University of Texas for his medical degree and his general surgery internship at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, before he endeavored on buying land & building a practice from scratch. Now, he then completed a fellowship in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery in Albany, New York. Now, he's won several awards for his academic achievements as well as numerous publications and presentations, and has been a guest instructor for the facial rejuvenation course given by the AAFPRS. He even has a wife who practices ophthalmology and oculoplastic surgery with the eye physicians of Austin. So, he is knee deep above the neck surgery. So, Dr. Buckingham, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Thank you so, much, Catherine. It's great to be here. I really appreciate you inviting me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, it's been a while since we've caught up. So, I wanted to ask just a quick journey from, how did you get from New York to Austin, Texas, because I know you're not from there. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I'm not from here. Mentioned I'm from Dakota, but I got to New York. From Texas and back to Texas, all because of that lovely wife of mine, Dawn. She's a ninth generation Texan and there's no way you take the girl out of Texas. You can't take Texas out of the girl, nor the girl out of Texas. It's all, it's all a lie. It just goes both ways. So, you I'm, I'm here from South Dakota in Texas because my wife is from here and it's a great, great spot to be. I couldn't be happier to be here, but it's all because of her. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. All right. Because that has to be kind of a social change from South Dakota to Texas. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah, it's quite a bit of difference. I got quite a shock. I went to SMU for my undergrad, so, that was my first introduction to Texas. And I went straight from rural because everything in South Dakota's, rural to Dallas and SMU is not exactly the school for the. So, I, it was, it's quite the shock when I first went to s SMU and, and then I met Dawn and she taught me some Texas manners, and so, hopefully those are still kind of rubbing off a little bit, so… Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. So, do you like barbecue? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I love barbecue and, and even more so, Mexican food and margaritas. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice, nice. Okay. So, let's talk about when you came to Texas. I, I'd just love to hear, how did you get to solo practice? Did you go direct directly into it? Did you join a multi-practice? What'd you do? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I did, so, as you mentioned, I did my fellowship with Ed Williamson Albany, and of course he's a great entrepreneur. I know he's been on your show quite a bit and helped you with all kinds of things. And so, he really was instrumental in giving me that kind of added benefit on top of my already accounting degree and my business knowledge. And because I had the benefit of a wife who was joining a single specialty ophthalmology group, we were able to support ourselves financially. So, that gave me the opportunity. To just hang a shingle, which is what I always wanted to do. So, I went straight from fellowship to Austin and basically just started to practice from scratch. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, no kidding. I actually know your area well. I ha I used to have some real estate there and I sold at the wrong time. I might add, but that's another story. So, I mean, Austin just took off. How long were you in practice before you saw the surge of Austin? Did you know Austin was going to be what it is today, or? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I mean, Austin has always been popular and growing, but I also lived back here in the nineties and my wife has lived here since about 1976 or so. Mm-hmm. And so, it went from town, 300,000-person town to around 2 million now, and it was probably. One, three or so, when I moved here and it's just been growing exponentially. So, I don't know that I anticipated the growth that was going to happen. We certainly knew it was growing, but we came again. We just came here. My wife graduated high school here. She has family here. So, it was just more of picking a spot because of family reasons, more so, than anticipating the business possibilities and positiveness about that. But it turned out, it turned out well. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good point. And did you always do reconstructive as well as cosmetic or how, how is that going to work out? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, when you started practice and you hang a shingle, you do everything you possibly can to earn any dime you can. So, I did everything and anything. When I first started, I actually subleased spaced from my wife's ophthalmology practice. Two, two half days a week in Austin, because that's all the patients I had. I'd be lucky if I had one or two. And then I also had a space up in a small town called Lano and one in a place called Horseshoe Bay, which are about 30 miles west of Austin and about 50 miles west of Austin because there was a family medicine group up there that had about 18 doctors in it. They didn't even have a dermatologist in town. And so, I literally went up and did a day a week in those clinics and they referred me anything on anywhere that needed anything other than they was skin related other than a rash. So, that was, that's what I told them. I'm like, I'll do anything but a rash because I'm not a dermatologist. I don't know what to do. But if you've got a sip, a cyst, or a lump or a bump or a lipoma or a cancer of any kind, I took anything and everything. And then I did a lot of shoe leather. I literally just went around and. Talked to dermatologists and most surgeons and just basically built a, a referral practice just getting people to just send me a skin cancer here and there. And they would literally send me one and I'd do the repair, and then they would figure out if I did a good job or not. And they'd be like, okay, he looks like he knows what he's doing and they send me another one. And then soon enough it became another one and another one and another one. And then from there, those patients turned into cosmetic patients. And so, then the cosmetic side of things slowly grew. So, I would say, You know, initially I did a whole lot of reconstructive work and or anything else that I could, you know, provide a good service for folks. And then this, then the cosmetic side just slowly built from there. And now I do about 90% cosmetics and about 10% skin cancer reconstruction. But, and that's, and that's really all we do now for, for me in particular, is just aesthetics. And then the only thing, non-aesthetic that I do, Skin cancer reconstruction. We're going to talk about bringing on partners and things like that later, but I, I let my junior associate do some of that and I've got a fellowship too. And so, the fellows do kind of the lumps and bumps now too. But I still really enjoy doing those reconstruction. So, I continue to do that even though I'm 20 years in practice now and could easily kind of get rid of that. But I just, I choose not to, I say that I do facelifts to put my kids through college and I do skin cancer for my soul. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. When, give me the timeframe between the time you like, there's a grind to what you were doing. You've got three locations, they're 30 miles apart, 50 miles apart. How long did you do that? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I did the two satellite offices until I got busy enough whereby, I could keep myself busy in Austin, and that took about four to five years. And then I slowly leaned away from doing those little satellite offices. Catherine Maley, MBA: But I hope people hear that because the, a lot of the surgeons in today's world think they're going to jump right in. And I, I don't think you can do that. I think, I mean, it takes a minute to get your bearings and actually more than a minute. It takes years, you know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: It does. And it, it's interesting because obviously things were different when I started practice. I see. We've actually had quite a few young surgeons move into Austin. Mm-hmm. And, and open practice for themselves. And they really hit the social media hard and kind of get referrals through that. And they become really a heavy injectable practice. I mean, when I, when I started practice wrestling wasn't even FDA approved yet. We had, we had human collagen products, and so, the injectable business was not what it is today. And so, that, that's what I see the young people doing now is they basically become injectors and then they convert those patients over to aesthetic patients at surgical patients at some point. But that, and, and obviously I'm not in their practice. I don't know that for a fact, but I don't do social media myself. I, I just don't have time and I just don't enjoy it. So, but other people in my office will kind of follow those newer surgeons in town, and that's kind of the impression that I get, is that they're heavy injectors and then I'm sure they're getting into the surgical aspect as they get a little more mature. Catherine Maley, MBA: No, I know several of them and that's exactly what they've done. So, whereas you did recon and got and like actually enhanced your surgical skills, they're actually going another route and doing social media and getting the nonsurgical and then hopefully transitioning that to surgical. So, there's no one way to do this is the point, you know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No, that's definitely not you. You do anything you can to pay the bills and worry about, worry about the rest later. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. The building that you just left, the, that was super nice building, super nice neighborhood. Were you, how long had you been in that building? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, I'm in my third oh, my third practice in Austin. Okay. I, I leased space for about the first eight years and then ran out of space and then leased another space for another 10 years. And so, 18 years in, well, it was really about 14 years in, I decided to actually look for land and start the architectural process and permitting process and all that to build the current building that I'm in. But I had two previous lease spaces before that, so, I've just, I just moved into this new building that you're referring to. Yeah, this last, last march. That is, that is, you know, my building that I own. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, before you got to that big building, you had a pretty solid practice. Like what, what, what made up your practice? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, I had about 3,500 square feet. I had a little office procedure room, but nothing that I could do. Level two anesthesia. So, I was using a surgery center full-time and it was just me and a nurse injector. And a nurse doing lasers. And so, that worked. And then I decided to bring in a junior associate. And the timing was planned so, that I would be moving into the new building as the junior associate came on. And that, that timing was a little delayed because of construction delays. But we basically were just busting at the seams at the old space when you, when you bring in. So, now, now I've got my junior associate, Dr. Aaron Smith, who's been with me about two and a half years. My current fellow Hudson Fry is going to be joining us and starting on after his fellowship in August. And then I have three nurses who provide injectable and laser services. So, they'll, there's really six providers in the office at this point, which obviously requires a little more space. And then in the new office we also have two quad SF accredited operating rooms and recovery space and all that too. So, obviously that requires a bigger square foot space than just kind of doing what I was doing. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, you jumped. So, what's the difference? Like how did you get to that point where you said, okay, I only have like one nurse injector and me making money and now I've decided to go big. What's the mindset there and how much how much fear you know, excitement goes into that because that's a big decision to make. How do you make that decision to really jump like you did? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah, I mean the, the nurses, I mean, my nurse Renee has been with me 16 years. Okay. And I, I brought her on and introduced her into beginning to do that, just basically when I got busy enough that I didn't want to be doing the injectable part of stuff. And so, I started passing that on to her so, I could spend more time doing surgical stuff and, and when, and she came on 16 years ago as a clinic nurse, and then, A few years after that transition. So, but basically, she transitioned into doing injectables when I got to the point where I couldn't accommodate everybody who wanted to do injectables with me in a timely fashion. So, that kind of grew and that's, and that's basically how we determine when we're going to transition to new nurse. So, I bring in nurses to clinical practice because they need to learn about facelifts and skincare and taking care of post-op patients and understanding. What a patient is talking about when they say they have heavy, you know, heavy eyelids and just facial aesthetics in general. So, I'm, I believe that a nurse needs to spend some time learning that prior to being allowed to move into the actual aesthetic provider world. And so, we convert nurses who are better in our clinical practice into first doing lasers, then neuromodulators, and then fillers. As we get basically just busy enough to, to warrant that. So, right now we've got, you know, Renee, who only does neuromodulators and fillers, and then I've got another nurse, Sarah, who does some lasers and she does neuromodulators and a little bit of kind introductory fillers. And then I have a third nurse who's the newest one in, and she's basically only doing lasers at this point, but as the other one gets busier and we have more people, then she'll transition the neuromodulators and fillers and then we'll backfill behind her, hopefully someday with the fourth individual doing that. So, that's how we kind of handle the decisions on doing the nursing, the, the ansary, non-physician providers as far as bringing on a junior associate. It's part of an exit plan to bring somebody in. And I know you want to talk more about that, so, I don't want to spill the beans on that too much. I'll let you bring the questions forward on that. But essentially, you know, my clinic is booked until, well, right, right now, if you just call up and want an appointment with me, and I, I don't mean to be braggadocious here, so, I don't, please, please don't. It's just making a point. But my first available clinic is in the clinic appointments in December right now. And so, and it, and it's been six to eight months booked out for quite some time. So, you have to think at some point that. You're losing patients because they're not going to wait six months to see you. And so, you can either let them go to somebody else in town or you can bring somebody else in to see them. And I, I probably waited perhaps a little too long to do that, but it just, you have other influences in your life and decisions going on that make you kind of figure out when you're going to do it. And so, you know, we did it, like I said, about three years ago is when we really started looking, or three and a half years. And then Aaron's been with me for about two and a half years. And it, and it's worked out great. So, she's really busy and doing well and getting busier all the time. And I think that when she rolled right in, just because I basically, and I know some surgeons structure this differently. They bring in junior associates and they say, here, you do all the insurance work. I'm doing all the cosmetic work. I don't think that that's really a fair arrangement. They need to be able to generate, you know, good revenue and do what they can do too. So, basically, Anybody who calls our office for a cosmetic appointment, we offer them myself or Erin. And if they don't specifically want me, we encourage them to see Erin cause her clinic schedule's more open than mine and that's allowed her to get really busy. I think she did 50 or 60 facelifts her first year in practice with us. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And is there a different price, caring structure for you versus her? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No. You know, I don't want to give the impression that she's somehow an inferior surgeon to me, and I know that there's. It can be some differences in opinion. Just say, you know, look, you've been in practice 20 years and everybody knows you, so, you should charge more. But we talked about it, and between just the two of us making a decision, we didn't feel like there was anything inferior in her quality. She's excellent surgeon and has great training, and so, we, we charge exactly the same. Catherine Maley, MBA: Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't look at it that way. I would look at it as there's premium pricing to get somebody like you who's got the experience. And it's just if you, if you want to wait and pay more, you know, for the experience, go with Dr. B if you're in a hurry and price is an option, or price is an objective then go with plan b. I, I personally like to give the patients a choice, but it's sold as, If you want Premier, you know, Aaron's great, but if you want the guy, you're going to have to wait for him and pay more. Just saying. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that's probably good advice. I'll take that to our next manager's meeting and see what everybody has to say about that. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's not saying excuse mediocre, it's saying you're the best. And you extra and wait for it. Yeah. Okay. And then any staff tips, because you've had a lot of staff like everybody, you know any tips on, especially when you're hiring nurses, any tips on how you're finding them and keeping them motivated? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Because nurses can be a little on the touchy side. Once they're around for a while and they start thinking they have a following and it's all about them. Have you had any of those issues? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, you are referring to the nurse injectors then? Yes. Yes. So, I mean first of all, they have a non-compete and so, they can't just leave, which is important, you know, in any situation where you've done, and again, I'm not bringing in a nurse injector who's fully trained and, and doing her own thing, and she just comes and joins my practice. I'm taking somebody who's never injected anything in their life and training them up myself. And so, that, that is important for allowing a non-compete to stick is that you have to actually have provided some training that they couldn't have gotten elsewhere, that, that makes them beholden to you to some degree. So, not that they couldn't leave and, and go outside the radius to the non-compete or move wherever they want to. So, that's just a, that's just a part of it. The other part of it is just treating them really well. Both treating them well as far as, you know, just personally and making a friendly, fun environment and, and being a good boss but also treating them well financially. So, I don't know that my nurse injector could go out on her own and make, you know, more than what I'm paying her. I mean, I'm, I've got the building and the advertising and cover everything else, and she's paid a base hourly wage as well as a pretty generous commission. And she brings home, you know, six figures in a good way. And I think that's, that's a pretty good number. So, I think that they don't, they don't want to leave. They, they're, they're in a great work environment. They've got great support staff. It's a fun office. We have a lot of fun, and they're financially rewarded in such a way that they have no motivation to leave. Catherine Maley, MBA: How do you have fun? I keep saying to the practices in today's world, it can't be all stress, you know, it just can't be all. A lot of patients or a lot of people don't want to deal with the stress anymore. They want their life fun, especially like some of the younger people. I came from a big, strong work ethic from the Midwest and it, we weren't. We weren't there for fun, we were there for work. And it seems like that has changed a bit. Like what do you do for fun? I always say, we'll have a taco truck pull up if everyone reached the goal that month. Like any ideas there? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: You know, it's not that we do necessarily anything special to have fun. We just have fun. I mean, we encourage people to laugh and enjoy their work environment. Patients frequently comment because they'll, they'll be in a room and we'll be doing some stitch removal or doing a dressing change or something like that, and they'll just be staff members outside the door just cracking up. And I think that there are some people who would, who'd be like, wow, you know, you guys tone it down a little bit. But patients love it. We just encourage it. And so, we just, we just joke and laugh and have fun. Our staff has a great relationship with each other. I mean, just this past weekend about seven or eight of them all went out on a boat after work on Friday and just, you know, they just enjoy each other's company. So, it's not that we, it's not that we do anything specific. We just encourage a fun work environment and it, it, a lot of it has to do with just the people. I don't, I don't think that that's something. That you just flip a switch and bring on overnight. It's a slow, steady process and bringing in good people and keeping good people and getting rid of, of grumpy people and just encouraging that culture and that that's really what it's all about. Not that we don't do other things. I mean, I, we used to do lunch for a staff, for example when they're having a birthday and it just became expected that they're like, oh, it's my birthday. We're going to do lunch. And granted, when you go from 12 employees to 24, that gets to be allotted lunches. And so, we changed that where we probably do more times than I bring in lunch than not, but it's always a surprise. We just, we just, the day before we just say, Hey, Dr. Buckingham's buying, you know, barbecue for lunch tomorrow, or whatever. It's, and, and then we just, you know, same thing because our office hours, we close the office at noon on Friday. And so, that, that allows people to do some of the things that they need to do, like go to the bank and get a haircut. And go to doctor's appointments and things like that. And so, they really, and it also enjoys us to just every now and then we'll just say, you know, Hey, we're going to go to the, the local wine bar and hang out for a couple hours and, you know, tabs on Buckingham Center. And the staff love that. We just go enjoy each other's company and I pay for some drinks and make sure everybody gets home safe. Catherine Maley, MBA: I love the idea about Friday shutting down Earlier, I used to say, oh, but you're going to miss a bunch of patients. And I've, I've done mystery shopping forever, and frankly Fridays are they're quieter, so, why not? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Why? I mean, that's a great perk. And you don't have to disrupt the, the regular working day, you know, it's just, they, they get to leave early to run errands. Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that idea. Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Well, and we, and we start our office at seven 30 every day too. So, I never understood why we start surgery at seven 30 at. So, we start every day whether it's clinic or the operating room at seven 30, and then we see our last patient at four. And I, I don't personally eat lunch, so, we don't take, we don't close the office for lunch at all. We just rotate staff through and they get to go take their lunch break while we're working. And so, that allows me to be, you know, ultra-efficient and we just rock and roll all day long and keep it going. And that way we get to work before Austin. Traffic gets too crazy and hopefully leave before Austin. Traffic gets too crazy. Now, operative days go past four, but the but the clinic closes at four, so, operative days, you got to do what you do. If you got surgery that ends at five or six you just do that. But I also. Don't believe in operating till nine. I know some folks are just, they'll book surgery till nine or 10 o'clock at night and just work, work, work, work, work. I just, I don't have it in me. I enjoy my personal life too much for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now I'm talking about Austin traffic. I remember when I first get, but like I was there 10 years ago or something and I remember saying to my boyfriend, What are they going to do with all this traffic? Like there are no highways, there's no buses, there's no trains. Like is there any plan? By the way, is there any plan for infrastructure? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: They, they're, they are talking about light rail. It is extremely expensive. And you can't just put tunnels and subways. In Austin, Texas, the entire ground is rock. And so, I mean, you could, but it would be dynamite underneath city blocks in order to accomplish that. I'm not sure that that's such a great plan. So, they're talking about putting in some above ground light rail, but mostly just. Expanding roads and doing what they can. But yeah, it's, it's a little bit of a problem. We have, as you know, rivers and, and what, what they call lakes which, and coming from, you know, the mountain area, this wouldn't be a lake, it'd just be a little bit wider river. Right. But we, but we call them lakes around here. Yeah. But there's multiple water crossings. And so, that, you know, obviously is an issue with traffic too. Because you have to build big, giant, wide bridges to accommodate that. And that just gets tricky. So, it is, it's, it's a problem and it's not Progressing as quickly as anybody I think, who lives here would like for it to be progressing. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Well, I know half of California moved there and I remember there was a saying that said, don't buy Texas real estate with California eyes. And that because the real estate was so, different now you guys are catching up to California prices. So, things have changed a lot. So, let's talk about your new building because that was a really big commitment you made, but you have that accounting degree, so, I'll bet that helped you crunch the numbers to decide how you want to do that. How far is your new, your brand new, gorgeous building from your previous building? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Only about three miles. We, we've, if you Yeah, we've, we've stayed in basically the rolling wood Westley Hills area, which I know you're a little familiar, great area. So, yeah, it's, it's on the west side of town. It's in the kind of horseshoe of the median income being where it needs to be. So, that's where we kind of have stayed. So, yeah, I mean, I basically just knew that I needed quite a bit more space and I always wanted to bring my operating rooms in house and so, When I was about five years into my previous 10 year lease, I just started looking for land and then found basically the last piece of land that was kind of near 360, which is considered kind of the inner, inner part of the Westlake area and got that land under contract and did our due diligence as far as understanding what the impervious cover is and how big of a building we could build. And we went through the architectural schematics of multiple different designs. And decided on something that was just ground parking and smaller, because we looked at doing an even bigger building with the first couple floors of being structured parking. I had a building consultant who assisted with, you know, kind of understanding. He knew what it would cost to do structured parking. Versus doing surface parking and what the square footage of the building would be. And we crunched the numbers to determine what maybe rental rates would be with that additional square foot with the additional cost of structured parking and just settled on a smaller building with surface parking. But, but you're exactly right. You just do that. You just, you know, crunch numbers. And even with my accounting degree, I don't know that I know enough about. Doing that sort of number crunching, because not only do you need to be able to do that, but you have to understand that if you build a parking garage that's two stories and X number square feet, that it's going to be about this amount per square foot to build it. And then you have to extrapolate and take those numbers from there. So, it's really, you really need to console to kind of help you with that sort of stuff. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Just gimme some of the mistakes made that others could learn from. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Huh? In, in, in regards to what? The building the construction. Right. Well, hindsight is 2020. Mm-hmm. We, we still, even though we've been in the building for a year, have not finished our punch list. And I, I don't want to go into too much of it cause I'm trying to keep this a happy conversation. But we're having significant issues with our general contractor, our general contractor's having significant, significant financial issues as it is sometimes in the construction world. When interest rates go up, you've got yourself over leveraged and extended, and all of a sudden you get yourself in trouble. And, and our contractor has gotten himself in trouble. So, so, we've got, you know, some subs that haven't been paid and some liens and there's lawyers involved. And so, I guess if you take hindsight in consideration, I would say hire a really experienced federal contractor that you know is going to be in business and is going to be able to weather the storm. And even if it costs you a little bit more, it's probably worth it. Even though I didn't necessarily go with the low-cost general contractor, and when I hired him, he was in in great financial shape and seemed like the best decision to be made. But I think that from a building standpoint, at this point in time, that that was the, the biggest issue. And then, but that, that's a hindsight issue and that that was just a decision that could have been better. I think that the other advice I would give is that we had a really extended timeframe for permitting. And it was because of an intrinsic property issue whereby we had a couple of different watersheds in the property and we didn't have any zoning in the city of Boston to accommodate for those two separate water watersheds. And so, the city just didn't do anything. They just sat on the plans and said, well, we don't have any zoning for this, so, we're just going to sit on these and not do anything. And I, being naive, just felt like they were just being slow. It didn't occur to me to hire an attorney. Who had inside leverage with the city to push the process along. So, that's what we finally ended up doing as I hired a real estate attorney who's been in Austin for a long time and has poll, and we went down and met with the city and actually got them. Because they weren't even telling us that this is the issue. They just, they just weren't doing anything. And so, we finally all sat down in the room and they said, well, this is the issue. And we were able to come to a pretty quick resolution and, and get permitting on the road. So, I think that that would be the, the thing that I would tell people is that if things don't seem like they're moving, Find an attorney who has leverage within the, within your system and push it along… Catherine Maley, MBA: …and who's played the game before and knows who to go to get things done. How, because I know the last time I saw you at a meeting, everything was delayed, delayed, delayed, the permits. How long did it take you to actually go from, I guess, ground to up and running? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, from breaking ground up and running? Mm-hmm. It's probably two to two and a half years. Again, patience. Catherine Maley, MBA: You need some patience that you have to really allow for these time delays, right? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: You do. When I started the process and the permitting and construction, I had about five years left in my lease when I was looking for land. And so, we actually a little bit, sorry about the background noise a little bit. I, at, at the surgery center cause I was doing skin cancer and so, we got cleaning crew kind of rolling in. Great. So, anyway, but I thought that my biggest problem was going to be that I was going to have to find a, a sublease to fill my right, my space. And I would definitely err on the side of knowing that you might have to either pay double rent or find this a subtenant sublease because as it ended up, I ended up holding over on my lease for about four and a half or five months. And literally, I mean, I, I had the ability to stay as long as I wanted to, but my, my landlord was none too pleased. And so, it, it got a little bit contentious at the end. And, and basically, we got, we literally got out of our old lease space and were supposed to be moving into the same buildings into our new building simultaneously. And as it turned out, we didn't have a certificate of occupancy from fire marshal to get into the new building. And so, for a week, I, I just saw post-op patients in one of my general in one of the plastic surgeons in town who's a colleague, just saw patients who needed to be seen in his office, in her office. And then we got finally a week later got ours too and actually were able to move in. It was a little, little stressful. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I'd say so. But now that you're in, how many square feet did you go in? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, our, we, we occupied the first floor of the building. So, the first floor is 7,500 square feet, but there is, there is some common area for stairs and elevators. So, The actual space that we occupy is around 6,900, right around 7,000. And then the building has got two stories. So, the upstairs is tenant space. That'll is, is in the process of being built out. Because of course it's nice to have some money being generated for a building that you own that isn't just being generated by you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. But then don't you have to what do you call it when you have tenants come in and you have to rearrange things? What do you call that? Retrofitted or something for the tenant. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Well, you, you have to do the, the build out. I mean, it's just shell space and so, Right. And, and there's a couple ways you can have a tenant that comes in and they're like, yeah, I like shell space. Just gimme some tenant improvement dollars. And they just kind of take that money and do the real build out. We, we looked at that for a while and we weren't getting anybody to really bite. And so, we actually did the architectural plans and we're in the process of building out the top floor ourselves and then just getting a tenant to come into the, to the finished space. And then of course, as we're in that process, we get a tenant come that comes along that wants to customize their space. And so, we're just actually signing a piece for somebody who's going to take what we did and undo some of it and do it on their own, whatever. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, anyway. But don't you have a say in that because they, you don't want them doing any crazy stuff upstairs, right? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Oh, I absolutely have a hundred percent what they do. I have a hundred percent saying who's up there what kind of business they have. I mean, obviously I don't get to control what business they have, but I get to control what businesses go up there. And what their finish out looks like as far as the quality of what they're doing, all of that stuff. You bet I have a hundred percent control over, over what goes on up there. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you have a nice exit strategy from what I can tell. You're now a landlord. You have a beautiful practice where you can bring on more providers, more revenue generating providers. Do you have and I know you, do you have an exit strategy? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? I don't know how far out it is. I mean, are you, are you like winding down or are you just getting started? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I am, I am steady right now. I don't have any plans to wind down in the next year or two or so. So, nothing's really firm on the horizon, but yes, so, and again, this, this is different business models and different people have different opinions. I know multiple people who believe in separating out all of their business aspects. So, they might have their operating rooms as one business and their surgical practice is one business and the nurse injectors is one business and they're. Philosophy on that is to have multiple profit centers and multiple things to sell, to sell. I basically looked at that and said that it doesn't really matter because your bottom line is your bottom line from business to business. And so, you can take all of that money and put it in one bucket and you look at your, your EBITDA and your whatever X factor that is to sell that. And it is, it is what it is. And so, I chose to put all of my operating and revenue, my nurse injector revenue, the surgeon revenue, everything all in one bucket. And then, in my opinion, that makes it easier to bring on somebody who wants to buy in because they can see that there's all of this other revenue that's flowing to the bottom line that they don't currently get a piece of, because they're not an owner. The only thing that the surgeon gets a piece of when they come into a practice, typically is whatever percentage of money of their own money that they generate that you give them. So, you have to have something else that they're not personally generating this, flowing to the bottom line to make it a reasonable situation where they want to buy in. So, as I was bringing in my junior associate and I was talking to people a, about what they had done. Because I know there are multiple examples of bringing in junior associates and the junior associate says, I'm not going to buy in. It's not worth it. I'm leaving. I'm going to go open my own doors or do whatever I'm going to do. And it just doesn't work out. And so, people told me, they're like, yeah, you can't just get a practice valuation and expect them to buy in. And I disagree. And that's exactly what we did. We set parameters and, and Erin came in and she did her two years and she got her board certification and then we got a practice valuation and we said, Hey, this is the number. And she said, great. And, and that's it. So, she bought 20% of the practice just about, well, middle of March, we closed on that. So, and, and that'll be a great investment for her. There's obviously a lot of revenue that's being generated by other individuals and it goes to the bottom line and now she'll get 20% of all of that. And we, and she and I live by the same formula, so, I think that you have to be fair with your junior. So, just like when she came in and I said, look, I'm not going to do all the cosmetic and let you do all the recon. We're going to, we're going to let whatever comes in and wants to go to you, go to you. Because I wanted her to be able to generate. As much revenue as she possibly could, even though she gets obviously the lion's share of that. But now that she's bought in I u I used to just take a salary and then whatever was left over, I just took draws whenever I wanted to. Right. Because I own a hundred percent. But obviously when you bring in another owner, then that's not the case anymore. You have to split it with whatever ownership percentage they have. And so, also to make it fair, I live by the same formula she does. So, up to a certain revenue amount, I get 40% of what I bring in. Above the next threshold, I get 45 and above the next threshold, I get 50 and less overheads running more than 50%, and then it gets reduced down. But over a certain threshold, you get to, you get to take home, you know, everything up to what the expenses are. So, just like for her, part of her earnings is going to the bottom line. Same with me. Part of my earnings are going to the bottom line. So, she gets 20% of what. It goes to the bottom line that she generates and she gets 20%, that goes to the bottom line to what I generate. So, it's just a fair situation. We both get to benefit and it makes it enticing for somebody to want to buy in and feel like they're getting value for their money and, and it allows me, I think, you know, I think the biggest problem that doctors do, and I'm not saying this is necessarily in the plastic surgery world, but you know, you see doctors all the time who build this practice for their entire career for 35 or 40 years and then they go, oh, I'm ready to retire. I'm going to still my practice. Well, it doesn't have any value if you sell it when you're gone. Your practice is your practice because of you and what you built. And so, you have to bring in a junior associate and allow them to build their practice under your name and what everybody's doing to come in that they recognized how, how you know good you are and let them build their practice with that, and you need to step away incrementally. It wouldn't also be fair for me to have Aaron buy in at 20% and then go, okay, hey, thanks so, much for the 20%. I'm going to go work two days a week. That just doesn't work. So, that, that's kind of the philosophy. But as far as I, so, I do, I do have a plan. Obviously, I've got Dr. Fry who's starting up in August and my, my hope is that he will be equally as successful and busy as Aaron was after two years. And then he'll want to buy in as well, and I'll let him buy in 20% as well. And then I figure sometime between 60 and 62, I'm, I'm about to be 55 now, so, sometime between 60 and 62 I'll probably start working a half a day, a week less, and I might take a little bit more vacation. But as long as I'm having fun, I'm planning on working until, what I don't want to be is the guy that the patient walks in the room and they go, wow, I heard he was the man. But I think he's probably a little too old now. I don't know. I don't know that he's got, I don't know that he's got the stuff anymore. I will not be that person. I'm not going to work till 75 80 and be that guy that, that people think has have the tremor when they're trying to operate. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I think it's a while before you get to that point. And there are still some surgeons, this is what they do that, I mean, they are going to die on the surgery table and they know it. I think a lot of surgeons in today's world though, are really trying to figure out, is that really what I want to do? But then they have to figure out how to. How do you pass your practice onto somebody else? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? So, I like what you're doing. It's unu like, let's just go one step further. Let's say you brought on somebody else then, so, you've got two associates at 20%, then you brought on another person at another 20%. Now you're like, is that the plan to keep giving people 20% or is it maxed out at the two or? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Actually, so, so, I have a daughter who's a first-year medical student who is. Most likely, obviously she has a lot to go through before she determines what she wants to do, and then she still has to match into an ENT residency and a fellowship and all that sort of stuff. So, there's hurdles there. But if you asked her today what she was going to do, she'd say that I'm going to do facial plastic surgery. And so, so, that's the plan is for her to potentially come in and be that next 20%. Mm-hmm. But I, I won't be in a situation where I don't have operational control from an ownership standpoint. Until I'm ready to say that, gee, if something happened, I would be ready to retire at this point. Mm-hmm. So, cause I'm just, I'm not, I'm not going to have built the company and, and lose control from a voting shareholder standpoint. Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, because the nuance there is you are somebody who gets it, like you understand the business and the marketing and a lot of other surgeons don't want to, they're not interested in it. They, they're fine just being the associate forever. So, is, are you tr teaching them, like, ed Williams was so, good about teaching fellows, this is the business side, this is how you do it. Are you doing that as well? And hoping one of them will. If you did want to step away, could they fill your shoes because you, those are big shoes to fill. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Well, obviously not immediately, but I, I certainly anticipate that Aaron's going to get busier and busier. Her word-of-mouth referrals are going to get more and more. I assume that Dr. Fry's going to have the same scenario where he'll be busier than most his first couple years out. And then as he builds his practice and starts to build a clientele that come to him, because he's such a nice guy and such a great surgeon, that by the time they're in practice for 10 years, Then yeah, might, they'll be able to fill my shoes. But there's no way that anybody's going to come into the practice and fill the shoes of a 20-year surgeon when they're in their first five years of practice. It's going to take multiple years for them to build up and, and get to the point where they've got a waiting list for six months of people that want to come see them as well. It just, it just takes time. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right, but then who's going to, like, is it a democracy then? Is it a dictatorship? Because right now I would think you have the final say so, in the big decisions made when you have three people under you all at 20%, I just wonder how that works out when with all the different personalities and egos, does it work out well? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? If you've got set up strike. Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. So, I don't, I don't think I answered your question on teaching fellows the business side of things, but a hundred percent absolutely. I mean, we, we say that when the fellows come and interview with us is that one of the reasons why you would want to do this fellowship is because you'll actually learn the business aspect of medicine. We have a board document that basically says, these are the things that we expect you to know when you finish your fellowship. And, and half of that is clinical stuff. And half of it is related to marketing and accounting and staff management and HR and every other thing you can think of as far as what it takes to run a practice. And, and I don't, I don't hold them personally responsible from the standpoint that I go, Hey, have you learned this yet? Hey, have you learned that yet? And I'm not going through checking the box. I just give it to them and go, look, this is your responsibility to learn this stuff in your, in your 12 months that you're here. If you don't do that, too bad on you. I'm not going to be your parent. I'm not here to be your parent. I'm here to give you the opportunity to learn. And if you take the initiative to learn, you have every resource to be able to do that. So, that, that is definitely part of it. But in an, in answer to the other question, I, I don't know how, but, but it, it is not a dictatorship. Every month we sit down and have a first Friday of the month in the morning, we have our manager's meeting, and I sit down with my HR, you know, practice manager person. My business manager, my nurse manager, the fellow Aaron, and when Renee, who's my nurse injection, can be there, she's included too. So, whatever number of people, six or seven people, and we sit down and we talk about stuff, and I definitely do not take a dictatorial attitude towards that. I think that everybody has positive, intelligent things to say and contribute to those meetings. And oftentimes I'll get four or five people who think that an idea is better than mine. And if you know what, if I got that many people who think that they're right and they. Can convince me that they are, then we go that direction now. Absolutely. Do I have veto power? You bet. I'm, I'm the president, the CEO. I'm in charge. But most of the time there's not anything that happens whereby I have to put my foot down and say, I know the rest of you want this, but we're not going to do this. Usually there's a pretty good consensus on most decisions. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. And then let's switch over to marketing. Any marketing tips? I mean, you're in a pretty competitive area now. Any, any, anything you are doing to help you differentiate from everyone else? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I mean, I have the advantage of word-of-mouth referrals. Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. You know, how much of your practice do you think your personal practice would be? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Word of mouth referral, 90% plus. Catherine Maley, MBA: And I'm going to tell you why, because, and I've watched you forever. You used to send beautiful flowers to facelift patients, and you, do you still do it? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Absolutely. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody. I don't know why everybody doesn't do that. You've got so, many notes and reviews and testimonials, and I think everyone was just so, surprised they got flowers and they all, I mean, how great of a strategy. It's not even a strategy, like you just know that's the right thing to do. How much has that been worth to you? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Oh immeasurable. Yeah. I, I mean, you're, you're exactly right. We get comments all the time. They come. And they, and well of course they go, oh my gosh, my husband bought me flowers. And then, and then of course they're like, oh, this is from Dr. Ingham. And their husbands are kind of like, oh man, thanks, thanks dude. I should have gotten her flowers, but nevertheless, it works. So, so, yeah, it, it, and it's and it's not overly expensive either, so, it's a, it's a really nice touch. And I, I look at it as, you know, when you're in that immediate post-operative recovery period, you don't think yourself, that you look very pretty. And so, it's, it's nice to have something pretty and that smells good to kind of take your mind off of what you're going through. And, and it has definitely paid off immeasurably over the years. Patients, patients love it. Catherine Maley, MBA: The secret is to get those there early on. I once had a facelift and the flowers arrived 13 days later and it kind of defeated the purpose. I'm like, where have you been? You know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Well, And it's crazy. I, for a long time believe that the flowers had to be delivered by a florist, and we went through a bunch of florists and it just was really, really difficult to get good quality flowers that got delivered in a timely fashion. Oh. And so, yeah. Now as crazy as it is, we just do one 800 flowers.com and, and people love it because the flowers last. For like 10 or 14 days, right? Just you cannot get flowers that are that fresh. I mean, I, I'm sure there are high-end florists who have amazingly fresh flowers, but when you're going straight from the supplier who's cutting whatever flower it is and putting it in a box and sending it, the patients just say that they last forever. So, as kind of not classy as it is to get flowers in a box in some way, shape or form, having, having really fresh flowers is, it makes upward, in my opinion, Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, it's so, much fun. It's such a surprise. It's just lovely. I think it's a great idea and I don't know why everyone doesn't do it, but what a great differentiator for you, you know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Now I know you're not a big social media kind of guy. Are the younger folks in your office the associates? Are they into it? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. So, so, Dr. Smith has a social media account that's associated with the practice that, that she runs and does AR I'm sorry, Renee, my nurse. Injector has your own social media that, that she does. And then we have someone in the practice who does our social media. Mm-hmm. It's just not me. Mm-hmm. You, you, I mean, again, I, I don't want to do it. I'm bad at it. I don't enjoy it. I don't spend any time on social media whatsoever. I have an Instagram page only because my son's baseball games or streamed on Instagram, and I had to have one to watch his games. It's just, it's not for me. So, so, yes, we're absolutely trying to leverage social media the best we. I wouldn't say that it's the easiest thing in the world to do, and I still have my reservations as to how much business it actually generates. I'm sure it's one component where people see you're on, see you on social media, and then they talk to whoever, and then they go to your website and ultimately, they get to you because of all of those factors, and it's really kind of difficult to tell, you know. Which one of those elements was the first one that really brought them into knowing, into knowing you so, We just look at it, look at it as one piece of the pie that you have to do what you can to do the best you can. But I certainly don't have a million followers. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? No, I'm with you. If it's not, if you're not into it, I would say it's more important that you'd be genuine when you, when you do it, and if you can have a good marketing team that just shows you off in a great way where you're not. You're not doing the production, you know, it's just maybe they're catching you at the right times and showing the day and the life of a plastic surgeon that makes more sense. But if you're not into it, I, I just, I don't think it's, I don't think it's worth your hours and hours spending on that. It's amazing how some doctors spend two to four hours a day on it. I just don't get that. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Well, and it, and again, I, I'm, of all the things we could talk about today, The one that I am the least authority on is probably social media. And so, but it seems to me like the doctors who are really popular on social media tend to have some sort of a flare to what they're doing. And I am just a nuts-and-bolts kind of easygoing, you know, grew up rural kind of guy. I just, I, I can't, I can't be Dr. Miami, right? It would never, it would never work for me so, that I just, I can't do it. So, we try to, we try to provide some good content that's interesting to people that has our values embedded in it. And unfortunately, it's just not that flashy. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what would you say is the biggest challenge running and growing a cosmetic practice today? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: HR. Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear that a lot, always. Edward D. Buckingham, MD: It is, and, and I, and I would say that that's probably the most, Valuable point that I can make in, in growing a practice is as soon as you get even a sniff, that you have discontent or employees that are forming clicks and talking badly about other employees. Break it up, make sure it ends, and if it doesn't end, get rid of them because it does not take but a half a second for a rotten apple to make the rest of the officer rotten place. And, and I've probably been through two or three iterations of that where I had employees that began that sort of behavior and taking after other employees and creating a hostile work environment. And it, and it took me probably the third time before I actually started figuring out that you just have to have an absolutely zero tolerance policy for that. So, Knock on wood right now, we have a really good, solid culture and everybody gets along and they're all team players and they're friendly to each other. But I tell you, just especially, especially the cliques, when you get two, when you get two people teaming up against another one, you, you just, you got to call them to the office immediately. You'll say, we don't, we are not going to tolerate this. Stop this behavior right now, or you're gone. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you because that's exactly what happens. It, you can see it happening and you have a tendency to be too busy and not interested in it enough to get involved, and that's how it grows. And then you have a big problem on your hands and by then it's so, toxic that you've lost some of the others in your p in your practice who thought, no, I'm not working like this. So, yeah, I hear you. HR has become an issue. So, on the, on the more fun side, tell us something we don't know about you. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, you already, you already took the South Dakota so, that I grew up in South Dakota. That's kind of boring. Catherine Maley, MBA: But tell us about South Dakota. Because I've never been there. Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, well, South Dakota where I grew up in Rapid City is an amazing place. It's a about 65,000 people, so, relatively rural, especially when you consider that the closest big town is Denver, which is about six hours away, and you're the second biggest town in the state. So, it's, it's big enough to. Have some, some conveniences of being in a little bit of a city, but you're 15 minutes from being out in the black hills where you can literally just kind of park your car on the side of the road and take off into the forest and never see anybody else. It's an, it's an amazing forest because it's an arid forest and so, there's not a lot of undergrowth, and so, literally you don't even need a trail. You can just go; I want to head west and just go. And as long as you don't get lost and get yourself turned around you, you'll get back to where you want to be. So, it's, it's really, it was an amazing environment to grow up in. Really good, solid people. Just beautiful country. Tons of granted, obviously Mount Rushmore's there. So, it was a really, really great place to grow up. The only problem with being a facial plastic surgeon there is you'd have to convince the goats and the cattle to have facelifts cause there's not many people. So, but Texas works out good for that. And I just get home, but I still have family that, that lives up there. My. Sister and brother live up there and my parents are there, but they don't winter there anymore. They're in their mid-eighties and they don't like to drive on the snow anymore, so, they go south for the winter. Catherine Maley, MBA: Like, where would they go? To Texas? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No. I tried to get them to come to Texas, but they had all their friends were going to the Sun City area in Arizona. So, they so, they went in. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that works. Arizona's beautiful in the wintertime. It's brutal in the summer. Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Yeah. So, but the other, the other thing you should know about me though is not really about me, but about my wife. Because you said she was an ophthalmologist, an ocular plastic surgeon, which is true. But she left practice a couple of months ago because, She was elected for the Texas Land Commissioner. Oh my Catherine Maley, MBA: God. Where was she when you needed help with your, your permits? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Believe me, she, she was the one who reported the people that I needed help with the permits. Ok. So, yeah. Un unfortunately government officials don't have that much power, but yeah, so, she's, she's a statewide elected official in Texas. She runs, she runs about a two and half billion-dollar 800 employee agency that does all kinds of things that I won't for you with everything from. Disaster recovery to running the Alamo and everything in between. So, it's actually the office actually predates the governor in Texas, so, so, she's yeah, she's pretty amazing. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a pretty big deal. Yeah. Oh, congratulations. So, you're, you're kind of living with a celebrity at this point? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: A little bit, yes, ma'am. Catherine Maley, MBA: Can you still go to dinner without being, you know, in a restaurant without being interrupted? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No, not really. I'm kidding. I mean, occasionally, but Yeah. But, and, and most people are pretty, are pretty cool and respectful, but we definitely see people everywhere we go that, that she knows and, and she of course wants to go up and shake hands and say hi and talk and everything too. But yeah, it's not uncommon for us to have a dinner that lasts an hour and a half and then walking around the restaurant saying hi to people for another hour afterwards. So… Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that must be really fun for you. Alright. Dr. Buckingham, it has been a pleasure having you on Beauty and the biz. I'm so, I just have watched you for decades and you're just doing a killer job on the business side. I'm you know, congratulations on your new building. I know you've got that business plan. I know you've got an exit strategy that you're doing what you need to do. Terrific. And isn't your website, buckinghamfacialplastics.com? Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yes, that is correct. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Okay. All right. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on buying land & building a practice from scratch. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Buckingham, you can reach out to his website at, BuckinghamFacialPlastics.com. A big thanks to Dr. Buckingham for sharing his experience on buying land & building a practice from scratch. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Buying Land & Building Practice from Scratch — with Edward D. Buckingham, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #buyingland #buildingapractice #dredwardbuckingham #edwardbuckinghammd | |||
| Solo Practice Within Group Practice — with Sam Jejurikar, MD (Ep. 207) | 26 May 2023 | 00:42:53 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and being in a solo practice within a group practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Solo Practice Within Group Practice — with Sam Jejurikar, MD". Some surgeons dream of complete autonomy. They want to do whatever they feel like doing without having to answer to executive boards or other surgeons they work under. They want to set their own hours, hire and fire staff and buy equipment if they feel like it. They also want to make more money and assume they will in solo practice since they keep all of the profits and not just a percentage. However, the flip side of that autonomy means they also get to handle their own books and inventory, while also marketing to attract cosmetic patients. The business and marketing side of plastic surgery can be fun, daunting, uncertain and confusing. So, is Solo or Group practice better? Here's a unique business model that allows you to run your solo practice as you want, but also enjoy the perks of being under the umbrella of a much bigger practice. Very interesting! This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast was an interview I did with Sam Jejurikar, MD, a board-certified plastic surgeon and a member of the Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute that includes 10 surgeons, 4 ORs, 40 staff in a 45,000 square foot facility. We talked about their unique business model to buy into the practice but run as a solo practitioner and how they make decisions with so many surgeons involved. Visit Dr. Jejurikar's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Solo Practice Within Group Practice — with Sam Jejurikar, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and being in a solo practice within a group practice. I'm your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them, more patients and profits. And today's guest is Dr. Sam Jejurikar, who is in solo practice within a group practice. Thank you. He's a board- certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon, who has a solo practice within a group practice, and a member of the Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute that performs cosmetic surgery, pediatric plastic surgery, breast reconstruction, and complex wound reconstruction. Now, the institute includes 10 surgeons. The Dallas Day Surgery Center of Cloisters Hope Post-Operative Recovery Facility, and the Epicenter Skincare and Laser Center. Now, Dr. Jejurikar received his medical degree from the University of Michigan Medical School and has been in practice for more than 20 years, and he also has the most incredible podcast name that I've ever heard. So, we'll talk more about that. And he also is very involved with Smile Bangladesh, so, we'll talk more about that. Dr. J, thank you for coming on and welcome to Beauty and the Biz to discuss on the topic of being in solo practice within a group practice Sam Jejurikar, MD: Thanks so, much for having me. I really appreciate it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, just quickly, can you give us a recap from Michigan? How did you get from there to here? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, after I finished at Michigan, I actually did an aesthetic fellowship at Manhattan Eye Ear. So, I spent a year there and I kind of circuitously wasn't sure where I was going to end up after I was in New York. And one of the opportunities that, that I had was to join this amazing group, Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute, which, Is, is really kind of unlike many other business models. And I know you've had a lot of solo practitioners on, on the show, but it's, it's basically an opportunity to set up a solo practice within the greater confines of a group practice. And so, that was 2009 when I made my way to Dallas. And I'd actually had a, had a little stop before that where I was actually in a multi-specialty group for about three years before I came to Dallas. And that was where I realized I really didn't want to work for anybody else. I liked the autonomy of working for myself. So, I've been, I've been at D Psi ever since. That's how, that's how that all sort of ended up. Catherine Maley, MBA: Then and that's why I wanted you on, because it's so, unique what you're doing and I can't tell what you're doing. It looks like it's an LLC. Then I thought, oh, maybe they're hooked up with the hospital somehow, but then they have a fellowship program and I thought, what, can you just explain your business model? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Cause I don't get it. Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. So, our business model is we are We are basically a confederacy of solo practitioners. We've got in D P S I at this moment in time, we had nine full partners and three associates, all of whom are separate PAs. But we have a common. We have a, a common holdings company that manages our group. So, we have some economies of scale. We have a business office, which is really robust, which helps all of our individual practices and our, and our entities. We've got some shared front desk employees. We've got shared photography studios and, and, and employees all together. We have about 40 shared employees between all of us. Then we have our own individual employees as well within our individual pods. And then we have our ancillary businesses. We've got a robust blood ASF certified surgery center that's got four ORs. We've got a really robust skincare laser center called Epicenter. We've had an overnight you know, recovery Center, which is sort of an outpatient recovery center for patients where we kind of teach them how to take care of themselves, or we have four beds as well. So, we utilize economies of scale to, to run a really efficient solo practice within the greater confines of, of a group practice. So, I feel like I have partners, but at the end of the day, we are competing against each other. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, does any, do the patients realize that you are all individual or do some patients call the center and say, I'd like to book a consult with a plastic surgeon and if so, divvy. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: We don't really have a main number that, that has like a receptionist that divvies that up. Like if you, we, there is, we do have a group website, which is just to have sort of a placeholder. And it hosts our fellowship. So, we have two aesthetic fellows every year. You know, we think we have the best aesthetic fellows aesthetic fellowship in the country. Everyone. Yeah. And it, and it, and it hosts, it hosts our you know, it's, it's a portal for the fellowship clinic more than anything, but there's not really a central number for people, for people to call. There's a business office. So, every now and then you know, they might in accidentally call the business office, at which point the, the la the way the group's actually set up will, will be explained to them and then, and they need to figure out what doctor they actually want to see. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you own the building or is it lease? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: It's a lease face. It's a, it's a, it's something that we regret in 2008 when we moved to this building, which is in the heart of Dallas. There was an opportunity to buy the building and we did not actually take advantage of that. And so, that's actually a big focus of conversation for the group right now because we're, we're coming to sort of the end of our lease and we're trying to decide do we renew this where we're in such a, you know, fantastic location, or do we, or do we pick up and start all over again? It's a, it's a huge source of controversy within the group right now. Catherine Maley, MBA: How do 10 surgeons make a decision of that magnitude? So, far we have, I can't imagine. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, I mean like any group, there's some people that take more, more interest than others. Some that are leading the charge, some that are following different, you know, as you've been talking to different surgeons at different stages of their career, ones that are closer to the end of their career aren't particularly excited about doing that. Ones who are starting their career are very excited about doing that. And so, I don't know what the final resolution is going to be. Catherine Maley, MBA: Give me the pros and cons of this situation, because you were, I guess you'd never really been in solo practice, but you were in a multi-specialty practice. Probably. How many surgeons were there? Was it a big one? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Oh, I was, I mean, I was with a huge organization there were in, in, in the city that I was in, there was there were about a hundred surgeons altogether for hundred physicians altogether. And then it was part of a much bigger, it was the, it was the Scott White Healthcare system before they merged with Baylor. So, hundreds, hundreds of doctors. So, yeah. Okay. So, the advantage of where I'm at right now is I have complete auto autonomy to, to run my practice in any way I see fit. I can hire and, you know, hire and fire the employees that I want to. I can market in any way that I want to. I can do the procedures that I, that I want to, but I have the same pressures that anyone in Stella practice does, which is you know, if times aren't as busy, I have to, I have to figure out where my customers are coming from. So, so, I think the only downside is there's some degree of uncertainty when you're on your own, but I think the, the majority of them are all, are all you know, they're all pluses. It's, it's, it's I mean, I, I think I make a lot more money this way than I, than I did when I worked for somebody else for sure. So, I mean, I, I think and the other thing, the thing that's different about our solo practice, I know it's been a big topic on your podcast, is about how to exit your practice. Yeah, yeah. So, this is a situation where we're approached by private equity probably once a month about someone wanting to acquire our practice. No one on the outside really understands what our practice is. What they quickly start to realize is if they, if private equity wants to acquire us, they actually need to talk to individuals within the group. About acquiring their individual practices. Of course, they want our ancillaries as well. And so, we never really get all that far. The, the, the thing is, is we have an easy way to exit our practice, which is, When we, when we join D P S I, there is a buy-in. There's, there's two sets of buy-ins. There's a buy-in to you know, our, our physical you know, our surgery center to our, to our profit centers basically which is based off of a fair market value. And then there's also a buy-in to the group itself, which is, there's basically a membership for you to join. You, you pay this membership fee, but you al actually get paid it out as well as you're exiting the group. So, I've paid in my membership fee, but now I'm actually at that phase of my practice where younger guys are actually buying the process of buying me out. So, when I leave you know, whether it's a, a building that we own or whether it's our lease space, some new associate will probably take my space or they'll hire someone else to do that. So, it does make exiting the practice relatively easy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Are there like any disbursements along the way or are you just buying in, doing your thing and then when you and it's time to exit, you just get that big chunk then? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: No, just for tax purposes, we get it as it's being bought in. So, the structure is when people are associates in that first two-and-a-half-year period before they're made a full partner a, a portion of their, of their profits go to the, the partner whose turn is to be bought out. And so, from a tax purpose standpoint, the person who, the partner who's actually getting. Getting that that distribution pay taxes on it. And so, the group doesn't want to hold onto that money because then it becomes a liability for this holding company, which doesn't really have any income. So, so, in, instead we pay taxes on it and we get it when it comes in. So, even though I'm nowhere close to retiring, I'm fairly close to being already bought out. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Very, very interesting. How do you divvy up the overhead? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, I think there's, there's, there's two. There's overhead that's related to our common expenses. So, that's divided. You know, the denominator is a number of partners and that's equally divided. Then there's overhead that's related to our individual pods, my own individual employees, my own individual marketing expenses, my own individual rent for my individual space. That's my own, my own to pay for. And then we have ownership, you know of our, of our ancillaries. And so, the same sort of deal, it's your, your percentage equity ownership is, you know, what, what you're on the hook for from a liability standpoint. Catherine Maley, MBA: I have to tell you, this sounds like an accounting nightmare. How are you keeping track of all this? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, we, we have we have multiple accountants that are full-time employees of our practice. It's actually, if you saw our accounting, you'd be blown away by the level of organization. Like we all have. We all have things that we love about T P S I, if you ask. You know, the most senior and well-known partner, Rod Rorick, he's going to tell you it's the surgery center. If you talk to other partners, they're going to tell you it's our great skincare center for me. Who's, who loves numbers? I think our business office is incredible. And the level of organization and the level of detail that I know every single expense in my office would blow you away. And aren't you very involved in the accounting? I am, yeah, I got an m MBA and so, I'm, I'm not actually doing the accounting, but I'm overseeing the reports and our analytics that go out every month for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have meetings with each other? Like, I, is it, does it feel like a good comradery there? Does it feel competitive? Like, what is your culture like? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: You know, I think with any large group of plastic surgeons, you deal with enough of them to know that not everyone is best friends with each other, but and we have disparate. Thought processes. There are some different visions for the group among different, different people, but there's a healthy respect for all the partners amongst one another. I think that's, that's, that's uniformly true. We've got a leadership structure that basically has an executive committee of, of currently four of the partners altogether. I'm one of them. We meet every month. Well, we have a regular standing meeting every month. We have a quarterly meeting of all the partners to talk about. To talk about bigger issues and if there's pressing issues. I mean, my, the surgery center, I work at my office, space Skincare Center. Everything we do is under the same roof, so, we're always there all the time. Should there be a reason to communicate more often? Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. Do you, if there is you're trying to make a decision, is there a final say? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Is there a dictator there that says this this is how we're going to do it, or is it a democracy? Are you voting? Because if you have four, what you know, that's, how's that working out? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, so, if we have a two, two tie, it goes to the partnership. We don't, we don't have a dictatorship because we're not, we're not one corporation, you know, we, we, we, that wouldn't work effectively for us. So, and if it's a big, you know, the, the executive committee of, of the four of us, we tend to make the day-to-day decisions. We tend to do sort of the relatively mundane things. Big group decisions are decided by all the partners. Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, the decision you have coming up that has got to be a big deal for you to try to decide, do we stay, do we go, do we, are, are you thinking about buying somewhere else or completely relocating, or are you thinking about just building in how, how many square feet do you need? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, right now we have about 45,000 in the heart of Dallas. But as you know, I mean, if you're going to think about a time to potentially invest in commercial real estate, yeah. I mean, the market is really depressed right now, right? And so, and so, this wasn't something that had really had really crossed our mind. More than a few months ago, but there are some opportunities right now. So, yeah, we're having lots of conversations about it. They're, they're healthy productive conversations. We, we have a five-year period of time still before our lease set would actually end. So, so, we're, we're working with a big enough window of time where we're not, we're not rushing into anything. Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say though, if you, timing is perfect for a really long lease, if you want to stay put, I go long, long, long. Yeah. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: We're getting some pretty competitive offers. Yeah. Like, we're actually we're getting some pretty competitive in fact, the building that we owned was just sold and they really, I mean, as you know, they really want us, we're their primary lease holder. So, they're offering us more and more because if they want to turn around and sell the building again, having us locked up. For another 10 or 15 years would make it a much more attractive building for sale. So, we'll see what happens. We don't really know. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Out of curiosity, how does the surgery center work? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Do you have blocked surgical times and or are you fighting over them or who gets there first? How does that working first come, first serve? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. And yeah, there's, there's definitely, and it's busy. There're definitely days where I can't. Get on, at least at the times that I want to get on, in which case I have to readjust my schedule to get on, or I have to work at another surgery center. Many of us have carve outs at other surgery centers that allow us to own a piece of another surgery center as well. So, I'm lucky enough, oh, to actually have an ownership share of another surgery center that's owned by a large hospital system here in town. So, if, if that happens, I, I have another place that I can go to. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there an any plans for expanding to more ORs? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, that leads in perfectly into the conversations that we're having about building our own space, because right now we're locked into our building and. There's not necessarily a great way to build a fifth or even sixth or without majorly disrupting operations. So, yeah, it's a conversation we have all the time. I think our first step though would be before we, before we actually. Before we actually build another or, or two, is we're lengthening the hours of hiring a second shift. So, we're now getting to the point where we have two late rooms that go to later in the evening and, and a second PACU shift that comes on. So, we're going to start with that before we start, before we start changing the actual physical infrastructure. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's interesting. So, so, like a patient can have surgery at six, at nine kinds of thing. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Maybe not that late. I couldn't go all day. It's definitely like five o'clock. But five o'clock. Yeah. I mean, if we, we can finish at seven, that's our goal. And we start as early as six 30. Many of the rooms start at six 30 in the morning. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay. So, the, so, the exit strategy, when people come on, they're coming out long term, like they're signing contracts that they're going to stay put Right. Because that's the way your business model works, but just let's say it, it just didn't work out you know, a personal problem, whatever. Yeah. How, how do, how do you, how do you unravel some of this if somebody needs to leave or wants to leave? Is there a way out? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, there is. I mean, just like any business or any sort of marriage, sometimes things just don't work out. And we've had this happen before. There's, you know, like many practices, there's a non-compete that's a certain geographic radius. Ours isn't particularly onerous. I, I don't even know what it is, but I think it's 15 miles. And it's two years. If they want to violate that non-compete, there's a financial penalty that they would pay to stay within that zone. But Dallas Fort Worth is so, large that usually they can find a place within the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex and still not violate their non-compete. I think we're arrogant enough to think that if you want to leave, we're still going to be fine. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think so. So, so, let's talk about that because what was really interesting, I like to check you out as a patient would, as a prospective patient. And so, when I Googled you up comes the main website and what was really interesting was. They immediately, there's a homepage. It's not fancy at all, it just has a bunch of your pH photos on it, and I just clicked on yours, and the minute I did that, I went straight over to your website and I never came back. Like I couldn't come back to the. The big practice. I, I just stayed with you and I thought that was a really, that was really good because now I can't fiddle around and say, well maybe I'll go to somebody, you know, let me check everybody out. And so, I Is that what ha that I assume that was on purpose. You know, once they say you, it's you. Right. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: That's right. Our, our, our D P S I website is just a placeholder in case somebody wants to know more about D P S I. It's really common because I think, I think my partner is, Or many of my partners are amazing surgeons and, and it's, I can't tell you, but it happens multiple times a week where a patient's seeing me for a consult and, you know, they may be seeing two other surgeons who they think are, you know, are, are great people in Dallas to have the same thing done. And it turns out they didn't even realize they were my partners; you know? They were just in the building two days before that and they're going to be back the week after or something. So, so, yeah, I mean, in an ideal world, people didn't even recognize that some of these, that some of us are, are, are great surgeons. I've got, my youngest child goes to a you know, a small private school and, and I can't tell you the number of my wife's friends that I meet at sporting events that are going to one of my partners for surgery. It always kind pains me a little bit. But it also makes me feel good that, that I'm in practice with such good people. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. For sure. So, would you say that name has been helpful to you or it doesn't really matter because you're going off of your own name? You're, you're not like trying to ride the coattails of Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: I think it's incredibly helpful. I think I mean I think it, you know, you look at it when you're starting off in practice. When I came to Dallas, I had no connections to the city of any kind. It gave me legitimacy right away. Yeah. They're like, oh, you went in this group. You must be pretty good. It helps me with, with business contacts and business opportunities because You know, we're a huge contract with Allergan. We're a top 10 account, we're a huge contract with Citra. We, you know, we, we get approached by a lot of people within the industry who want to, you know, make us a test center for, for something they're doing. So, it, yeah, it's, it's a huge opportunity to be part of this group from an individual marketing standpoint. Maybe not so, much, you know but, but it is certainly not a harmful thing and, and every other aspect of business is fantastic. So, let's talk about marketing Catherine Maley, MBA: channels. Your social media. I mean, you've got over a hundred thousand followers. Are you spending a lot of time on content creation for social media or you've got a team doing that, or how's that working out? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Me personally spends very little, spends very little time on it. But yeah, I've got we, you know, we used to work with an outside company. Now it's just redundant internally within the office. Mm-hmm. I think there's different kinds of practices, some practices where they generate a lot of new patients from social media. Mm-hmm. I don't think I'm probably one of those practices. I think people look at me and they, my social media is just sort of a check mark where they've sort of verified that I'm legitimate, that I. Actually, do exist. I've got plenty of before and after pictures that are on there, and that's how we treat it. So, I, I don't personally spend a lot of time on it, but, but you know, there's, there's a, an employee in my office who spends half her time filming stuff and putting together videos and things like that. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's what I, I'm, you know what I, my, the answer is it depends. It depends on your personality and your interest and passion for it. Some of the doctors are just crushing it on Instagram and mm-hmm. But that could also, you know, shut down the minute something happens with Instagram and it goes down, you go down with it. So, that makes me very nervous. I always say to people, make sure you're getting these followers to give you your, their name, cell phone and email in case something were to go wrong because patient plastic surgery and. And social media do not get along and it's getting worse. So, but if, but if you like doing it, do it. But if you don't, don't be spending two or three hours a day fiddling with it if it's not what you want to do, you know? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. I, I don't think I have the personality that's particularly magnetic for Instagram. I just recognize that about myself. I think I do great work. So, that's what we focus on there. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, me too. I, I, I'm not a social media queen at all. So, let me ask you about patience. How do you see, you know, you've been around for a while. First of all, are the patients getting older and maturing with you? So, now you're moving from just breast aug to more mommy makeovers and more to facial rejuvenation. Are you doing any of that? And does it feel like the patients are changing? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Let me answer your second question first. Definitely there's, there's a lot of patients that are in my practice that have been with me for 10 plus years. And so, so as the, those patients themselves are maturing yeah, that what the, I'm, I'm definitely doing more facial aesthetic procedures on them and if I did a breast dog on them before liposuction, now maybe to tummy tuck or a, a bigger mommy makeover. You know, I, I do think though, with it being a major city and a major market, people tend to look for specialists and things. And so, even though I am, I have a fellowship basically in facial aesthetics. My reputation is for body contouring. I mean, it's for breasts and Tommy's and butts and liposuction, and that's hard to escape. So, I, I do find, That like today, for instance, instead of my patients maturing, I'm operating on children of my patients. Like today I did, today I did a breast dog and a liposuction case on two different patients, both of whom are the daughters of patients I did like 15 years ago. So, so, maybe it's not maturing, maybe it's just I'm staying in the family. I'm not sure. Okay. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, exactly. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And do you want to stay body? Because I have, I mean, some plastic surgeons have said to me, I am so, done with the young, silly patient, the breast dog patient who, you know needs to be out at the, the dance club, you know, two days later. And now they're complaining about pain. Like they were just, they had had it with that kind of a patient. So, they, they did actually transition to face. And the more mature patient the one that cared more about their skill than they did about saving money. And they were ha I mean; I know I can think of at least five. That said, I, I'm happier now because I'm matured, so, I matured the patients as well. And do, do you see that coming? Or you're fine with all of it? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: I think my price visit matured. You know, I'm definitely not a cheap press augmentation surgeon. You know, I, I think So, I think as my, as my pricing schedule has matured, I mean, I'm pretty happy. I like my patients. I tend to like that. Like I'm not, I'm not feeling this big need to change. I love doing facial aesthetics. I love doing rhinoplasties. I love doing faceless. I do. It's but I love doing breast surgery and moneymakers and Tommy Tucks as well. I just, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not feeling this huge push to change anything just because I like my day to day a lot. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if you are, I mean there, you know, just know thy self. If you're happy with what you're doing, there's no need to change. Yeah. What about your patients coming back for more? Are you more like a one and done or patience for life philosophy? Where are you at with that? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Definitely a patient for life philosophy. So, I turned 50 next month. So, I'm very much, I think, in that mid-career aspect of my life and I just want to enjoy like every day. And so, I. Like the thing that my staff complained to me about, I spend a lot of time talking to people. I get to know them really well. It's really common for me to forget the procedure that I've done on them, but I always remember them and details about them. And so, no, I, I, I mean, you know this if you can hold on to your customers that life, that customer lifetime value is so, much more than having to go out and get new ones. And when you get to know patients that well, and you genuinely like them and, and you do a good job for them, They get very loyal to you and they tend to, they tend to send people your way as well. So, the number one and number two sources of patients in my practice are either return patients or just direct referrals from them. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? Do you have any tips for, I mean, honestly, the, the two most important things going for somebody who's looking for you online are your reviews and your photos. Do you have any tips for how you are collecting reviews and photos or having any success? Getting them more often than not. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: I think I think the first part is don't delegate it. You know, people, people are really happy when they're really happy. And you recognize that as, as the surgeon, you know, they, they want to do something nice for you because you've made such a big impact on their life. And sometimes I don't think they realize that it's as simple as doing a Google review. I mm-hmm. I mean, if you want to do a Google Review for me, that's way more valuable than. Sending me, sending my office cookies, which are just going to make me fatter than I already am. And, and it's cause it's so, good for, for our practice. So, so, initiating that conversation with them yourself, I think is really helpful. But then having a way to make it really easy. So, we use podium, you know, in our practice. Yes. And they'll just send them a little text message with a link from them, how to do that at some point. And I find that if I ask someone to do it, more often than not, they do. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's the secret. The, the surgeon has to ask. They'll get a much better response than the staff. What about the before and after photos? Is that a priority for you to get more of them or what's your feeling on that? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, again, I think one of the huge advantages that I have in being in the group than I am is because we have economies of scale. We've got a full-time photography staff and we've got. Three photography studios between two different floors with, you know, amazing setups and a great database. So, yeah, I get before and after pictures on pretty much every patient in every visit. And I think I do really good work. Again, if I'm going to show it, I usually have a conversation with the patient more than just the signed releases, making sure they're okay with it. And again, more often than not, people in today's day and age, and its still kind of foreign to me, but they want me to show their pictures online to them. That's sort of a sign that I cross some sort of threshold that like they're good enough to, to put on there. And so, I just mentioned, you know, I'll say something like, your results really good. It'll be really good for my business if I show your results. Are you okay with that? And., They seem to really like that more often, not. Now, Catherine Maley, MBA: I hope everybody heard that the pearl is, you give them a compliment and then you ask for a favor. And it's very simple. The surgeon does it, it's no big deal. Mm-hmm. And so, many practices still say to me, there's no way my patients will agree to this. They just will not there. It's much too private. And I say, then how do others make it happen? You know, there's such a mindset shift. When you look at your patients as they're partners of yours and they're, you get, you did them a big favor by transforming their life, then they're more than happy. Many of them are more than happy to re, you know, give it back to you within a review and, and photos. So, I just, yeah, I just start thinking bigger than that, especially social media for heaven's sakes. The stigma is so, Much diminished now from before. Everyone's out there bragging about everything they have. So, I don't buy that anymore that patients are private. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Oh, I totally agree. Patients take a huge sense of pride in knowing that their surgeon is recognized by other people, is being good, and they, they get, they get more intense about it than, than I do. I mean, I, I, I've never been in it, but I, I've learned that there is a Facebook group that has a bunch of my patients that are in it. And they're really, really just like, they're very, they're like, they're very proud of me and my results and, and then I don't think I have a great social media. Personality, but I think I've got great before and after pictures. I do think I do good work and, and I think that's been great for our practice is showing it and to the point where now very often I'll get a comment from a patient saying, when are you going to put my photos on social media? And I'm like, I just want your swelling to go down a little bit, but I promise you they'll go on there. Like I, I mean, patients bring it up all the time. Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, that's fantastic. So, I want to switch gears a little bit because the reason you're on my radar is because I was somewhere probably on Instagram and I saw something called this podcast and it was called Three Plastic Surgeons and a Microphone, and that completely caught my attention and I looked at it, I said, Three surgeons on a microphone regularly. How did you pull that up? First of all, who came up with the name? Because it's fabulous. And then how in the world do you structure it where three of you are in the same place at the same time, or at least in front of the zoom at the same time? It is very hard to corral you, you people. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. Well, so, the name, my PA actually came up with that name. Her name is Colette Collabro, and we were trying to brainstorm an idea, and I think I had just seen back in concert the musician back and like two turntables in a microphone. She's like, why don't you call three plastics in a microphone? So, that's where that came up from. The reason why we have an easy time filming it is the other two guys, Sam Re, who's in Bergen County, New Jersey, south Paella, who is in La Jolla, California. We're really good friends. We all train together at the University of Michigan. Sam was one year senior to me; Sal was two years junior to me. But we're close friends, so, we like each other. We like hanging out, we like we like talking. So, in the pandemic, just like when everyone else was bored and podcasts started just popping up, we. We thought, let's do this. But Sam Re in New Jersey has technologically really savvy. So, he sort of put together, like as we, he, he produces all of them. He does everything. He does the editing, he does everything. But but he's really savvy at doing all of this stuff. And so, we started doing it in the first few podcasts. We got some pretty big guests. We've got a lot of positive feedback. Then I started getting people that were coming to see me, like from other places in the country who said they found me from the podcast and I wasn't really. So, then we got, we both, we all, we kind of realized how powerful it could be from a marketing standpoint. So, we kept doing it and it's, yeah, we've gotten a ton of feedback. We've gotten a lot of like; you know feed Spot always Consist consistently ranked us is one of the best podcasts in plastic surgery and. We just have a lot of fun doing it and, and it's a very efficient thing to do it. We'll typically do it on the weekends. We'll do it on Sunday mornings. We can typically film an episode in 25 to 40 minutes and we'll do three or four at a time and kind of do that once a month. Catherine Maley, MBA: And the topics, because I can't tell who's your audience, because sometimes you talk about plastic surgery via like the patient, you know, the patient itself. Then sometimes you have industry people on there. Then sometimes you have colleagues on there talking about like you know, procedures. Who, who are you going for? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Well, no, I think we're just like talking to each other and we're, we're still figuring it out, but Gotcha. No, in all seriousness, its patient driven. Okay. Cause even when we have industry, it's, you know if we have the ideal implant people on this Yes, I saw that. Yeah, because we're, we're getting a lot of, a lot of patients don't want to know about it and, and Sometimes, I think more often than not, because I'm in d p so, we're all in different sorts of practices. Sam Re is a true solo practitioner. He's a, he's a one man show. South Paella is the head of plastic sugar group for the Scripps Clinic in La Jolla. So, he's in a, in a, in a very different sort of setting. So, I'm in a group that gets approached by industry all the time. Sometimes it's a way for the other guys to learn about it. You know, where I'll, you know, I was talking to the CEO of a financing company the other day, and. And learning about some of the things that they're actually doing and, and I ask them to be on a podcast so, the other guys can sort of learn about it. Sometimes it's just each other. We're the audience, but other people find it interesting. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, you're doing it for fun. It's not like a big marketing ploy. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: It's turned into a big marketing ploy, but we're doing it entirely for fun. Like, I haven't put, we haven't put much money into it at all. We've turned down people that want to do, you know, endorsements or advertising that have approached us for doing it. Mm-hmm. I definitely get customers from it, but I have no way to track those metrics. But we're doing it for fun. Catherine Maley, MBA: We love you. That's the only thing I don't like about podcasting. You can see numbers, but you can't see the details of the numbers. And that just drives me nuts is I think, who are these people watching this? You know? And I, I, yeah, I have to count on them to like text me or deem m me or do something to tell me who you are. So, ah, that's a little infuriating, but there's no, I don't know how else to do it other than. Just keep saying, come to my website www.CatherineMaley.com and tell me who you are, you know? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I definitely know when I get a, someone in my office who's a patient who's blown from another state to come see me and they say, I saw you on your pod on, on the podcast, and I knew I wanted you to be my surgeon. Those are the best consultations. Cause as you imagine, you already know they're going to, they, they feel like they already know you. Yeah. They know your philosophy about things. They're going to pick you to be your surgeon. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, but that's a 95% conversion rate. I don't know why everybody just doesn't make their life easier. And try the relationship kind of selling first, you know people who already come. No, you like, you trust you. They come ready to say yes. All you have to do is not screw it up. You know, like they're, they're ready. I so, much easier than, than that stranger patient, that internet, stranger patient, you know, with their arms crossed, saying, who are you? What do you, don't try to oversell me, you know? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, exactly. Hundred percent agree. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, so, well, we have to talk about smile Bangladesh because that, oh my gosh. I, it's like tear jerking. I saw one Instagram post and oh, the little girl who is holding up her picture of her as a baby, as with a cliff palate, and she looked fantastic now, and I'm thinking, girl, you don't know how lucky you are. Like, wow. I mean, that was life changing. So, what, what's that all about? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, it's a, it's a group based out of New Jersey. The founder of the group is an oral surgeon. He's really well known in the oral surgery world. A guy by the name of Shahi Azi, when I met Shahi, he was the he was on staff at U M D N J. He's over the, he's now moved over to Hackensack, but back then, this was more than 10 years ago. The, the cranial facial surgeon at U M D N J was Sam Re my colleague from oh three pack Surgeons and a microphone. And, and on the very first small Bangladesh trip that went, it was Shawhead Sam and a couple of nurses. And on the second or third trip Sam invited me along. So, so, I went obviously I'm, as you know, I'm great friends with Sam Marie, but Shahi and I hit it off really, really well. So, they kept asking me to come back. So, for every, for You know, at least once a year for the first seven or eight years, I would go and I would operate and got more and more involved. And, and, and at some point, I actually got, they asked me to be on the board of directors. And, and it's grown. The organization, the organization has grown from being a really small endeavor to being huge, huge group. Shahi is built and, and CHAI's story is really interesting. He. He his son was a or his father was a really prominent infectious disease doctor from Bangladesh. Shawhead had never even been to Bangladesh, but when his father unfortunately passed away, he just told him to never forget where you came from. So, SHA head Made it his mission and he funded this, this organization. And the, the trips now are usually two-week endeavors. The first week they're doing orthotic surgery. The second week they're do, we're doing clef surgery and I don't do orthognathic surgery. So, I'll go in and I'll do a bunch of clef surgery. And then we come back and, and it's an, it's, they're very emotionally therapeutic. Life-affirming sorts of trips because you'll be people that just have nothing and they are so, grateful that you're providing these services to them. And so, they've been incredible experiences for me. I've gotten to take one of my kids with me, my, my middle son who's a freshman in college now. And it was a huge life changing experience for him. I look forward to taking my youngest son with me in in a few years. It's just, it's been, it's been amazing for me. Catherine Maley, MBA: I talk about a different perspective. Everybody who lives in America, who's complaining needs to go see the alternative and be a lot more grateful, you know, than they are anyway. So, any, any comments like any advice for others coming up in the, in the industry or anything you want to, any 2 cents you have that was helpful advice when you, that you were given? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: You know what I think advice that I've heard all the time, but I kind of disregarded. Because it just didn't seem practical enough was to just do what you love. Oh, okay. And to build a practice that you want, because it doesn't seem like worth, if you are doing the procedures, you want to, you know, you want, if you are spending the amount of time you want, like, like in our group, there are guys that make, that, make more. There are guys that make less, there are guys that see three times the number of patients. There are guys that see a third of the number of patients and, and ultimately, Just deliver really good patient care. Figure out what works for you. And I don't know any plastic surgeons that aren't successful. I mean, everyone, right? Everyone has varying degrees of success, but ultimately it won't seem like work if you, if you build a practice that you want and you do the things that you want to do. Catherine Maley, MBA: Such good advice. And the last question, tell us something we don't know about you. Sam Jejurikar, MD: Don't know about me. Well, I've got three kids, one of whom is a junior in college and one of whom is in kindergarten, and there's one in between. So, I'm never going to be without children. Same the. No. Okay. So, so, I guess the bit of advice is when your second wife tells you they don't want to have any more kids, that may or may not be true, but, but it's a, it's a great thing and it keeps you young for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: You got to get that in writing. Yeah. So, well, thank you so, much for coming on Beauty in the Visit. Really appreciate it. I hope to meet you someday. I, you know, at a conference or wherever. And someday, boy, I'd love to see your practice. I tried to do a tour of your office, and it's just, it's big. You, you have quite an impressive location there. Sam Jejurikar, MD: Nice. Well, you're welcome. Anytime. Just let us know when you want to come. Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so, much. And Dr. J, how can they reach out to you if they want Sam Jejurikar, MD: to? Probably the best way is via Instagram. They can DM me @SamJejurikar. Catherine Maley, MBA: Sam Jejurikar, I like your name. It's catchy, once you get used to it, Jejurikar. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on "solo practice within a group practice". If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Jejurikar, you can reach out to his website at, DallasPlasticSurgery.pro. A big thanks to Dr. Jejurikar for sharing his experience on being in solo practice within a group practice And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Solor Practice Within Group Practice — with Sam Jejurikar, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drsamjejurikar #samjejurikarmd #plasticsurgeonsolopractice #solocosmeticsurgeon #soloplasticsurgeon | |||
| Tips to Convert More Cosmetic Patients (Ep.206) | 19 May 2023 | 00:11:40 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Let's face it. Times have changed. It's way too competitive to be mediocre. It's also way too costly to attract new patients so you can't afford to lose them. I know you're painfully aware of how difficult it's gotten to convert prospective patients due to the insane amount of competition and information available. This creates confusion and fickle prospective patients who know if However, this is actually an opportunity for you to step up and be better than your competitors, so they choose you. But here's the harsh reality… It's not enough to have a gorgeous expensive website do all the heavy lifting for you. It's also not enough to automate everything (even though that would be great). Chatboxes, Auto-responders, follow up funnels and artificial intelligence are helpful, for sure, but they have their own limitations. Remember you are in the people business. People with credit cards who want to look good and feel great. People with emotions such as skepticism, fear, hope, trust or distrust. These people who are using their own disposable income want customer service. They want to feel heard and significant. They want to know you care. Chatboxes and autoresponders do not give them those warm, fuzzy feelings. People do. So, in this podcast, I'm going to show you how to convert more cosmetic patients without spending more on advertising or hiring more staff or adding more technology. ProblemLet's first start with this question... If you were to listen in on new caller leads your receptionist was handling, would you smile with satisfaction listening to her professionally credential you and book the consultation or….would you cringe hearing her lose the callers and hurt your image all at the same time? When you ask your receptionist about it, don't they often say the callers were just price shoppers and weren't serious about moving forward? And, Does this sound familiar: You do a string of consultations that you "thought" went well. The prospective patients you met with were engaged and interacting with you. You were sure many of them would book. However, when you ask your coordinator how the consultations went, she tells you:
So now you're either questioning yourself or your staff or the patients. Is it something you said or did? Is it something your staff said or did? Are patients today ridiculous and you're ready to throw in the towel? It's so deflating putting in so much time and effort, only to NOT get the result you expected. So now you decide to either spent even more on advertising to get more leads or you fire your staff or you do nothing and hope next month is better. Instead, here are some insights that should help: AgitateI have trained hundreds of receptionists and coordinators from around the world and here's what I know for sure: Every practice has money-losing holes in their practice bucket (some practices have more than others) and the most common are disappointing conversion rates. And, even the most seasoned staff could use improvement. Actually, the seasoned staff has been around for the good times, when it was a lot easier to convert callers and consults so they may have trouble adjusting to this increasingly competitive landscape where they need to learn new skills and strategies to keep up. Frankly, too often the staff is winging it. They just say whatever comes to mind and that leads to them talking too much and confusing the patient and a confused patient is a no so that's not a good approach. Because it's astonishing to discover the reality of lost revenues leaking out of your practice that add up big time. For example, if your receptionist loses 1 caller per day that was worth $2K and you multiply that by 5 days per week and 50 weeks per year, that's a whopping $500K per year and let's say you see:
This sound good UNTIL you do the math on the other 60% who did NOT book. That number of lost revenues is $2,800,000! Yikes! This is unnecessary and also easy to remedy. Here is The #1 Tip to Convert More Callers Prepare your staff to answer the caller's question, "How much is it?" So often, callers have only one question when they call your office and that is… How much is it? Oftentimes, you don't tell them. Your receptionist says, "the surgeon must examine you first" and then you'll get a quote. That used to work before, but in today' world with so much information available, that can feel evasive or defensive to the caller so they end the call. Or, you tell them the price and they hang up, never to be heard from again. Here's a better approach… The reason they are asking about price is because they are not considering anything else but price. They have commoditized your services and "assume" they can get the same service and result no matter who they choose. But maybe in the past, when they had chosen a cheaper alternative, they were dissatisfied because they had to wait, the staff was rude, it was painful, nobody seemed to care, they were underwhelmed with their result and their experience. So, it's vital you educate callers what else they should consider that goes into it than just price BECAUSE they don't know….until you tell them. Prepare your staff to "Pre-Frame Before Price" by bragging about you and the practice BEFORE stating the price. Now the caller has more to consider than one price variable. For example,
If you have trouble coming up with your brag points, think of all the complaints you get, fix them and they become your bragging points to tell the caller. And, here's The #1 Tip to Convert More Consultations. Set your coordinator up to be seen as "The Aesthetic Advisor" and NOT "The Closer" When you buy a car at the dealership, you are often sent to an office to meet with "The Closer" to talk about the numbers and the terms. It can be stressful because the negotiator may be pressuring you to add on tinted windows, leather seats, etc. This is NOT a fun experience and can leave you feeling victimized, or you may just leave because you are uncomfortable with the set up. The same happens in a typical plastic surgery consultation. The patient meets with the doctor and then is sent to "The Closer", otherwise known as your patient coordinator, to discuss fees and dates. The prospective patient has never met or talked to the coordinator; yet, they are expected to review the quote, agree to the terms and put down a deposit….all is a matter of minutes. This is not a comfortable experience for either the patients or the coordinator. That's why the patient so often says, "I have to think about it" or "I have to talk my husband. A better approach is to set up a process so the patient and coordinator converse ahead of time so they have a chance to bond BEFORE meeting face-to-face. You do that by sending a personalized welcome letter from the coordinator, then she calls to introduce herself and then sends text reminders using her name. These several points of contact help the patient and coordinator bond ahead of time and that makes it a much more comfortable and effective consultation that actually books! The OfferIf this has helped you see how nuances make all the difference in converting callers and consultations, you'll want to check out The Phone Club for Receptionists and The Converting Club for Coordinators at www.catherinemaley.com for a lot more strategies to transform your coordinator into a confident coordinator who converts 30-50% more consults professionally and your front desk staff will convert up to 30% more callers within 48 hours using proven scripts and strategies. Go to www.CatherineMaley.com for details. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#convertmorepatients #convertmoreconsults #convertcosmeticpatients | |||
| Business Insights for Growth — with Catherine Maley, MBA (Ep. 323) | 14 Aug 2025 | 00:37:55 | |
📅 Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Business Insights for Growth — with Catherine Maley, MBAIndeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits. Business Insights for GrowthObviously, most surgeons excel in the operating room. However, many struggle to run their practice like a business. That's why I discussed this with Candace Crowe on her "The Crowe's Nest" podcast in the episode "Business and Marketing Strategies to Grow a Thriving Cosmetic Surgery Practice." What You'll Learn in "Business and Marketing Strategies to Grow a Thriving Cosmetic Surgery Practice"Specifically, this episode reveals proven business and marketing strategies that separate top cosmetic practices from the rest. Moreover, you'll discover:
Ultimately, if you've wondered how top surgeons grow without losing control, this interview has the answers. Furthermore, it shows you exactly how to build a practice that thrives. Therefore, listen now to "Business and Marketing Strategies to Grow a Thriving Cosmetic Surgery Practice" and learn how to run your practice like a profitable business. Special Message: So, watch your inbox. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA Practice Growth Resources:
⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#candacecrowedesign #thecrowesnestpodcast #candacecrowe #cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons | |||
| The Future of Cosmetic Surgery — with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD (Ep.205) | 13 May 2023 | 00:59:19 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the future of cosmetic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "The Future of Cosmetic Surgery — with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD". While speaking at this year's AACS conference, I heard a surgeon give a talk called "The Future of Cosmetic & Plastic Surgery: Consolidation and Success". He was saying how difficult it is for a new surgeon, oftentimes saddled with up to $500K in loans, to borrow more money to open their own practice or buy into someone else's, when they enter the marketplace. He went on to talk about new hybrid scenarios that work well for the up-and-coming surgeon looking for autonomy and support, as well as the mature surgeon contemplating a profitable exit. Since this is a hot topic lately, this Beauty and the Biz episode is an interview I did with that speaker. It's Dr. Erik Nuveen, a cosmetic surgeon running a multi-surgeon, 10,000 square foot private practice located in Oklahoma, OK; which is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery. We talked about how he bought someone else's practice (with a shoddy reputation) and built it into an 8-figure practice, while performing 2,240 surgeries per year. And, how Dr. Nuveen is using the art of consolidation to reduce redundancy and change the landscape of solo cosmetic practices. Visit Dr. Nuveen's' websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: The Future of Cosmetic Surgery — with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and a Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and the future of cosmetic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. I have a really special guest today. His name is Dr. Erik Nuveen. Now, he's a cosmetic surgeon, who is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery, in a multi-surgeon, 10,000 square foot private practice called Cosmetic Surgery Affiliates, and it's located in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, which I've actually had a chance to visit this year for the first time in my life, and it was really nice. So, this eight- figure, practice, which is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery, includes face, breast, and body surgical procedures performed by four surgeons in their two onsite operating rooms, which are fully accredited and AAAHC certified. Now, they also offer a plethora of nonsurgical treatments performed by many ancillary staff in their med spa, as well as online store that carries their own skincare line. Now Dr. Nuveen and I crossed paths very recently. We were at the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgeons annual meeting in San Diego and Dr. Nuveen we were in the practice management session and after I spoke, then I listened to Dr. Nuveen's talk and his was entitled, "The Future of Cosmetic and Plastic Surgery: Consolidation and Success". So, this happens to be a really hot topic lately, so, I wanted to get his take on it because he's very immersed in it and like I said, he's embracing the future of cosmetic surgery. So, Dr. Nuveen, thank you so, much for coming on to Beauty and the Biz. Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It's an honor, it's always I don't know, may, maybe it's a point of retrospect and, and life, but to, to hear the things that I've done is kind of weird to listen. It just you know, I started off when I was six and always wanted to do surgery. My father was an orthodontist and oh, He straightened teeth, and that was wonderful to change the perspective and often the self-esteem of o often adolescences. But at the end of that, I was always frustrated with my dad because he couldn't fix their nose or their chin. Oh. And that's really where it started. And you know, today after finishing, you know, 14 years after college and. And eight, nine years of residency and fellowships. And then 21 years of clinical practice, it's like a blink of an eye. And I, I know I, I sound like a broken record for us that are adding up some years, but what I think what's been kind of special about my situation is when I finished up a full formal fellowship and face end body cosmetic surgery in Salt Lake City, Utah. I had also finished a year of cranial facial surgery at Toronto Sick Children's Hospital. So, I had a pretty unique bunch of skills and also medical and dental degree. Prior to, I did a total of two years of general surgery. So, it was interesting because I, I had also along the way had taken a little time to fly some airplanes and so, I figured, well, gosh, how can I involve myself with a hobby with a skill to help others and to improve the standard of care throughout the country? And I, I, I take that statement very seriously. That was my objective and it still is to this day to try to improve each and every day. And I hope when I do exit. That it will be at the top of the game and, and I'm always looking forward to that because each day seems to be a better day. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I finished my fellowship and I came to Oklahoma City. I picked Oklahoma City because the cost of living here was very low. And the opportunity to start off day one in a 10,000 square foot facility that I purchased was not Something I could do in downtown Manhattan, right? Or other major metropolitan areas. So, I live about eight minutes from my office and 12 acres and nice countryside and quiet with coyotes and hawks and owls. And it takes me 10 minutes to commute to see patients, and it's just been a fantastic choice. It is the middle of the country, so, fortunately I get to use my airplane and go and visit the ocean often. And so, the practice really started there in Oklahoma City and I took over a preexisting doctor's practice. He was 71 and did exclusively breast surgery. And I saw an opportunity to expand that practice. And fortunately, God willing it did. And so, I purchased that practice from an individual, kind of the old school method, a handshake, a, a gratitude, and pat on the back and. And there I started and did — Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait, were you in a different building? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes. Yeah. From the, from, so, he was in a smaller facility and shared with an ophthalmologist oculoplastic eye. Mm-hmm. And that relationship couldn't have lasted too long. Cause I really needed to grow and I needed multiple operating rooms to do what I had set my heart to do. So, my, my plan from day one was to come into the community meet all the other surgeons that did similar things and. And opened the door for growth. And ultimately, I, I set the bar high. I want it to be the most dominant practice in this region of the country. And I, I think statistically we've been able to achieve that. I do. About, can, can I ask you something? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Catherine Maley, MBA: Out of curiosity, what exactly did you buy? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Because, what did he have that you wanted of value? Was that a shortcut to get into the community or what? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. So, you know, there's an exchange in life, right? You know, you, you ask for, you have communication, you hope for a response. And in the relationship with the physician was this gentleman wanted to exit and I wanted to come in. Mm-hmm. And he had a patient flow volume of about 750 patients a year. He did a very high volume of breast augmentation and he was very consistent year in, year out. He didn't offer almost any other procedures. So, I saw an opportunity there just in the patient flow volume to expand, and it did. So, we sent out letters to 6,500 pre previous patients and inform them of our expanded services and an opportunity to meet with me and. So, the first month I was in practice I did 57 major surgeries and I've never slowed down. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And did you two, like were you feeding off of his credibility? Did he have to stay put for, for a while for the patients to get used to the transition or how did that work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, that's, that's a really variable answer if you're speaking to the general public on that topic because it's all about personality will determination. Effort and I hope good counsel. I think that's an often-overlooked commentary is you, you need to, don't, don't do things foolishly because you think it's the right thing to do. There's been other people there before you and you really should ask some good questions and don't be afraid to hear constructive criticism. It's, it's very common to think that doctors have done very well in school and that that translates into financial or good decision making, and it doesn't always. So, we have to admit that first and foremost, have the insight that the others have been there and let's get some good advice. So, for, in my situation, I was taking over a gentleman's practice who. Had done almost 20 years of exclusively breast surgery. So, we had a very long proven statistical track record, and I'm very data driven. So, I did a lot of spreadsheets and demographics, co, you know, cost of living, cost of employment, and the goals that I set for myself and my business, and kind of predicted in a business plan exactly what I thought would happen. And it's actually remarkable how close I was over a 20-year period to exactly what I predicted. It's actually freaky weird. I was off by less than a hundred thousand dollars in, in, in all the categories, which is pretty, pretty amazing actually. Catherine Maley, MBA: But did he stay put like did you two work together or did he pretty much exit and you entered? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, I made a very thought-out contract. There were some issues related to his history that I needed to insulate myself from and isolate myself from. So, I did that legally. And he worked about two hours. And then he was released from that obligation. And then I took it from there. And at that point, I had come down two times during my fellowship met patients, knew I was on good, solid ground of communication and I was willing to take that gamble. So, he exited immediately and I took it over from there. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, again, out of curiosity because these are the kinds of things people want to know about. Yeah. If you're taking over somebody's practice who might have some reputation issues or maybe some bad reviews, do you, how do you handle that? Do you just change the name and hope nobody notices, or what do you do? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Yeah. Well, you over his website with his SEO of 20 years of rankings, or how does that work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. You know, today's a different era. Yeah. You know, it's 21 years down the, down the road since then. But at that point we did surveys. We sent out surveys to patients. We asked local doctors, because I did communicate with every other plastic surgeon here in Oklahoma City. Not always to the most welcome response, but they gave me enough ammunition, fuel, and, and energy to try to approach. The challenges and also received the benefit. And the benefit was just a phone number and a website and that. Statistical demographic that was reaching out was very consistent. And even though there were negatives and I, I have yet to meet a doctor in the country that didn't have a negative of some sort. Right, right. There are risks and sometimes we take those calculated risks and I, I think if we're, we're a wise person, we're going to really investigate background checks histories, people, they're cavorting with their associations, their friends. It was, my situation was abundantly clear. There were some significant challenges, and I have to say, if I asked 10 of my colleagues, they might have questioned my judgment, but I just looked at the demographics. There was, there was such strong patient flow and opportunity in that patient flow that I, I went for it and, and it was a good choice. But how does that translate to other doctors? Excellent background. Listen to others, get experts, get lawyers, get accountants. You need to surround yourself by people you trust to the end. I mean, like people you'd give your kidney to if they needed it. You, you really have to have that level of faith because these people are giving guidance about your career. And to take it lightly is a fool's errand for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: What would you say is one of the biggest mistakes made that now you look at back at now and say, gosh, I wish I had avoided that one. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I got to be honest with you, maybe I'm, maybe I'm just blissfully happy, but I can't think of a single significant mistake that I made at all. I mean, it, I really, it, it has been an unbelievable career. Unbelievable. And. Sure there are things I'd, I'd regret taking on too. Challenging a case at too earliest stage in my career. Mm-hmm. I'm definitely guilty of that and thinking that maybe sometimes I have more answers to a problem than I. I rightfully should have. Mm-hmm. And those can bite you. But you know, it's experience just leads you to those types of mature answers and inexperience leads you to immature answers. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how long were you in practice before you bought that 10,000 square foot building? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh, I actually bought it before I started, so, I, I, I had made some pretty savvy investments during residency and I saved up a great deal of money. So, I had no debt. I paid off all my student loans and I had enough money to go in and, and pursue loans. And this was a different time. I mean, gosh forbid a person leaves a residency now with four or $500,000 of debt. I mean, they've got a doctor, doctor at a, at, you know, after their name and that used to buy you, you know, a million-dollar loan just for the handshake and a signature. Those days are long gone. And it's really an interesting time, which really leads us to the issues of consolidation. For sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: How did you know that you, were you, so, you knew you were trying to build an empire, like you weren't getting around like you, or were you thinking about renting it out to others? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Did you know you were going to fill that building up? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, well, you know, my mom says things to that I'll quote often, and I know she'll listen to this podcast, so, she'll probably get a little teared in her eye. But when I was a little kid, my, my mom always said he's full of grandiose ideas. We'll see what happens. Catherine Maley, MBA: Famous last words, huh? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I've heard over and over from people and I surveyed as many people as I could find. I went all over the United States, never spared a vacation to, to go to a surgeon and spend time with them. I mean, I missed, I. Almost 10 years of vacation because every vacation was used to advance myself and my career for my patient's benefit. So, I I had a lot of information, a lot of experts out there, very famous people. I could just run-down a, a lengthy list. And they, the con the con consensus was a few things. No matter how big the space you get, you'll fill it. Just watch, it'll happen. And so, I took that to heart and came to Oklahoma where things were a little bit cheaper and started day one at, with 10,000 square feet. And, and now we have another facility in Jacksonville, Florida that's going to arrival at, so. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. And then when did you start adding other surgeons? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I was in practice for three years before I took our first fellow, and so, I would. Count that as my first experiment with having another full-time doctor with me. And that was a great experience. And so, I've had. 15 fellows. Now we have one every six months now. Those fellows are all over the country from Seattle to Scottsdale to Park City and down in Florida. And so, that's been a great journey. I, I would say that is a really nice way to bridge the gap from independent practice to developing physician relation skills. When you're isolated in a practice, there are some strengths that come from that autonomy, but also some weaknesses that develop and that dictatorial unilateral approach to decision making can be a very challenging problem in, in various social arenas. So, I would attribute that first step of growth to fellowship training and devoting oneself to the education and betterment of someone else is, is a, is a really true altruistic art. Mm-hmm. So, I would say there, now my first associate was 2007. So, I was in practice four years and took on a gentleman for two years. We knew his pathway was to leave, but we were fortunate to have him for two years, and that gave me another stepping stone towards longer term relationships. And I, I'm still learning to this day. I don't have all the answers. I. But I will say that there, I think there's three categories of doctors you work with. There's a doctor who's very skilled, very capable, and very good, and is just trying to bridge that gap of independent practice from residency, for example. And they're strong enough and good enough that they're going to try to fight it and do it, do it themselves. Some of those doctors will see value in associating with another doctor and others will not because they're so, capable and skilled. That's one type of doctor and they take a different approach and a different mentality and a different communication style. The next doctor is a doc. Our doctor is a doctor, is completely on the other end of the spectrum, and that's a doctor who doesn't want to own anything, doesn't want to run anything, and just wants to show up. And they literally don't want to manage. Even the thought of management is, is just makes them almost sick to their stomach. And those doctors are really interesting because you can almost plug and play. You can have a system do consultations, plug in the doctor, minimize their interaction. Quite honestly, because often they're not the most robust in their skillset and succeed very well because if they show up and are happy to do two or three surgeries a day, I mean, they're thrilled to go home. And maybe that, that term that sometimes confuses me work-life balance, which I don't have. That, that's the third type of doctor. The intermediate doctor is the doctor that I really strive for. But I'll take anybody, I mean, I, I'm not going to say that we have a specific type of doctor that we're looking for because honestly, all of them can work well. It just. Listening to them, understanding them and respecting their skillset and their what they're really looking for in their lives. So, that intermediate doctor is a doctor that wants their input heard. They want to be respected. They want to add to the quality of the practice or the contribution factor they want to contribute. Yet they don't want to overly be involved with the bills. And negotiating contracts with anesthesia departments, it's just not what they want to do. So, those are the three kinds of broad-based categories of doctors I deal with, and all of them can be appreciated and all of them fit into a system. You just have to respect their differences. Catherine Maley, MBA: And, acknowledge them. Because I think a lot of doctors aren't aware of which box, they fit in. Mm-hmm. Because some of the doctors actually, some of the I'll just generally speaking, yeah. The younger patients don't, or the younger doctors don't know anything about business and they've never had to come up with patients in a marketing plan and paying bills and being at risk. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Yeah. So, they come on a little strong and not be naively, you know, and then there's the older doctor who might be burned out. But, but not willing to relinquish control so, that there's nothing easy about that. I'm sure you take your time, you know vetting these people, right? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's, it's really interesting. It, it's a, it has to be thought of, in my opinion much more fragile than a marriage. I know there's analogies often made, but. I mean, it's pretty easy to get out of a business situation, and it's, it's much more financially challenging to exit a marriage having been there. So, I, I, I would say that identifying egos who needs to be praised? What, you know, what are their love languages? I mean, it's truly a tort of force of intellectual psychological assessment and appreciation on both sides. I mean, we have to respect each other. We have to show that respect, but constructively, we have to give guidance. I mean, it's really awesome. I mean, talk about fulfilling. I mean, this type of, of business relationship is just amazing. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I've seen some practices that are a true democracy. Mm-hmm. They meet, but they meet every week. They have the same values. They have honed this. Mm-hmm. I know a practice who has kind of like a coach and the coach keeps everyone on task. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Mm-hmm. Just in case things, they don't want any big problems that are factoring and they're not talking to each other, so, they really take it seriously. And, and they have a beautiful, profitable practice. Mm-hmm. And then others are just a dictatorship. They just, they. They hire some surgeons and they say, I'm running the show. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? You just show up and, and appreciate that, and that's it. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Right. Right. Yeah. And, and yet there is room for all. I mean, there's enough to go around. Mm-hmm. And the greediness and, and the you know, to, to think that you're the only one to do it. The only way is just foolish. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I've been doing this for a long time and I've never heard the same story twice. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? You know, there's no one way to do this. That is for sure. I'm just loving all the creativity that is coming about, that's evolving and that's why we're talking about this. But yeah, if I'm not mistaken though, when I was listening to you speak, do you have 39 staff people? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Let's see this week. And that's a, that's a, a laugh, but also the truth. It does vary quite a bit. We have. We have one person two people kind of exiting. We have three coming on. That's normal. That's a normal week. So, we have a very open-door policy. I say the same thing every year at a Christmas party. I say, listen guys, whenever you want to leave, it's perfectly fine with us. Don't ever feel like you got to be the last one in the, in the building. I just thank you for coming. Thank you for being a part of our employment. And just have a good time and leave whenever you feel darn good and ready. Don't, don't feel bad. And I kind of keep that same philosophy in the office. We tell people when they're hired, listen, we're, we're here in this life for a certain amount of time. You may be here for a long time; you might be here a very short time. Don't ever feel bad about it. Always address things up with honesty and forthrightness. And if things aren't going well or you're seeing things differently, we need to hear about it. Let's just be open about this. Immature adults. And so, we do have a fair amount of turnover in our office, which is both financially challenging and functionally challenging. So, we've chosen kind of a redundancy and an overlap in employment that allows kind of a rotational cycle of employees. So, I have a set of employees that I work with primarily. Of course, I like to call them "The A-Team", but. They're really just a group that, that has piled around with me, knows my habits, knows my mannerisms, and we work really well together. So, we work together three days a week. We, we typically do 12 hours a day, three days a week. And we start at six 30 and yeah, usually finish around 7 30, 8 o'clock at night and no, I take no lunch. So, talking about work-life balance. Yeah. I'm not the model of that. I love my work, love my work. I make no excuses about it. I am no balance whatsoever. Work, work, work. Because I love work and I figure I want to work. And if I die at work, that's okay with me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Good attitude. Do you, hopefully you give them lunch, right? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes, yes. As what's required. But I, it's so, funny because you know, people of personality types, they tend to congregate. We like to hang around with each other and you know, we have a certain type of humor and we have a certain type of music we listen to. And it tends to be that these young ladies work their living butts off. Cause they love that I do. Nice. So, we're all, it's like a bunch of pigs and mud. I mean, we all love rolling around in it. So, they take very little launch, often don't take lunch, they'll snack on something. They kind of mop about it, but they also are kind of proud about it and mm-hmm. So, my little set team is they're amazing and I'm very happy for, but we're just one small part of the big group. We have a, we have a big administrative group. We have a very big IT division, which. I mean, I, I could just talk for hours about just our 13 different IT groups that we work with. It's craziness. Catherine Maley, MBA: And are you planning, do you go for patients all over Oklahoma? All over the nation? All over the world? Well, where, where are you going with that? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Where are you? I mean, are all these, like the, those breast dogs, was he getting all those just in Oklahoma City? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. The so, the, my predecessor, the person I purchased the practice from was, was a, a, a very unique individual. He decided to basically do the Walmart service, so, he did, it was $2,800 cash breast augs saline only, cash only. And he did four a day, five days a week. So, that's not a bad business model. No, no. He did very well financially. Mm-hmm. You know, there, there were some unscrupulous issues and there were some, some financial misappropriations that occurred. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the cats only probably was a hint there. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Anyway, but we don't run our, our business like that. So, our, our business is, you know, absolutely to a t run properly. And, and so. What is our recruitment? Honestly, we try to focus on the central Midcentral United States. We do get patients, word of mouth, friends, et cetera, that come from all over the country. We have a very large military presence here in Oklahoma, so, we have a lot of people that relocate to Japan, Germany, Italy those are the big ones, and all over the United States on a different military basis. So, that has been a big area of contribution to the practice success. But really, I, I think it's been 21 years of, of tremendous service and being available to the patients. I, so, 21 years ago I made my own website. Mm-hmm. I did it over Thanksgiving. Weekend it cost me 25 cents. Nice. And I started something I'd never heard of and I did, made an online form entry and completely, there was no HIPAA and so, they just sent me pictures. And so, I was getting, you know, pictures of people, body parts from all over the country all the time. And I was inundated. So, I had never heard of anybody ever doing this before. And you know, of course things have advanced to all the encryption and HIPAA policies and now almost everybody has an online form entry system. Mm-hmm. But you know, 21 years ago it was unheard of. I certainly never heard of it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that was a big deal 21 years ago. Good for you. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh yeah, we were doing 20, 25 cases a month purely from, without ever visiting with a patient. The patient would come in from out of town, we'd see him the day before, we'd do the consultation, then we'd do the surgery the next day. So, yeah, it was just I have to say that that concept came from a, another doctor who I met in Connecticut, and he was doing that for wisdom teeth removal. And just inundated. And I thought, hell, why not try that in our business? And sure enough, it was a, a tremendous boost. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's how I've grown my own business. I always looked at all the other industries and I said, how can I adapt that to our industry here? And it's all y all you have to do is be a little creative and say, how could we do that here? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? And yeah. Now you also have an online store, a skincare line. You have your own skincare line with an online store where they can shop. I'm always curious about that. Is it a good profit center? Is it a pain in the neck? Who's doing the fulfillment? You know, I never, I, I'm not a fan, but, but does it work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: I mean, yeah. Well, first of all, I, I think you have to have a passion for whatever element of the practice your endeavor might be. So, for me, I'm a surgeon. I do surgery morning, noon, and night. I hire people that have passions for things that I don't have a passion for. So, I have an aesthetician that does all the aesthetic services. I have two nurse practitioners. That primarily do non-surgical things and supervise my clinics. I have a skincare person that deals with most of the retail services. Is it a profit center? Sure. It makes a profit. You know, I mean, it's probably 50% margins on everything we sell, but, you know, as far as a comparative, I mean, just to use real numbers and I hope that's okay. I'm always very transparent about, about the practice. You know, selling $10,000 a month of skincare products is, you know, that's $5,000 a profit. That's pretty darn good for buying hamburgers and shoes for your kids. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm okay with that. As long as you don't lose focus on the big-ticket items. I find that the vendors or sta like estheticians take it very seriously, but I just, I watch the balance of how many are, how much of your resources are going into that when it becomes only one or 2% of your overall revenues good. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? That money have been made. Easier or elsewhere, or that, that's my only comment there. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: You have. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very, it's a very good point. And you know, some of the consulting services will focus on the quote, the, the money left on the table, right? Yes. That's the common statement. Well, you're leaving money on the table, right? I mean, that's a term that I just want to choke people out for. Because you're absolutely right. If you have no passion for it, if you have no business doing it, please don't do it. Yeah, you're going to waste energy, time, frustration, managerial nightmares, legal liability. I mean, I could go on and on. If you are really good at something, I think you should do it all the time. Because you're going to make much more money at it. You're going to enjoy your life. And I don't worry one bit about my skincare related services, because I've got a young lady who loves it. So, there you have, yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, I practices try to train everyone on how to sell skincare and I just think I don't get that. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? I just, I think there's a better use of your time. Regarding, you're doing a lot of non-cervical as well. You have a full-blown med spa, right? Because isn't your, is your philosophy more patient for life or one and done? Or where are you at with that? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. God, you know, so, right now I, my practice and I as 90 plus, 90% of the overall surgical volume, I do about 2,240 procedures a year. So, it's almost mind boggling. But I did surgery. Yeah. And so, I, my focus is all there. So, but what would be ideal? If I were to step back and walk into this office as a businessman, which I like to do mentally. I would look at the colors, I would look at the smells. I would look at how I'm greeted. I would see what, what the door presentation is. I would want to hear the music on the speakers and you know, is there a TV on and what's playing on it and what's being presented. Are there menus of services? What are the services that this offers mm-hmm. That this office. Offers, how is it displayed? Is it displayed on the wall? Is it displayed electronically? All of these things that would go through my mind if I walk to the office. And it's interesting because even though I, I suppose I'm in the position of c e o, I don't fulfill all of those. Things that I've just told you, there's always room for improvement. There's, and that's undyingly interesting to me, that there's always room for a person's improvement and the practice improvement. Now, if I were to say in a more ideal situation for, so, I do about 90 major faceless and facial restorations a year in, if I could ideally, Play out for you. What I'd like to have, I'd like to have an introduction. I'd like to have a credentialing period. I'd like to discuss their goals. I'd like to hear from them for 10 or 15 minutes. I'd like to a, evaluate them and like to give recommendations based on their goals. Now a quote is rendered, but I'd also like them to meet with an aesthetician because as part of the comprehensive care of this patient is not only. Pre-operative preparation for it in many cases, like laser skin reserving, but the post-operative maintenance, it, it is a really important, integral part of, of ideal patient care. So, it's not just a surgeon comes in, cuts, walks out of the room and never sees the patient again. That would be the, the most cur method of maybe managing the patient. But really ideally that's what I'd like to have. Do I fulfill that each and every day? No, I don't. I, I think if I were to walk in as a consultant, I would say, boy, you really need to kind of systematize that process each and every day to have that integration that I think is more ideal. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, as a, coming from a perspective of the cosmetic patient, once they've invested in themselves on one body part, they will move on to another body part. And especially if you help them with that. So, I think you, you, you have a patient there for life psychologically, you know? Yes. Once you get that bug to look good or feel good and all of that. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Yeah, usually it's not a one-time thing for the patients and nor should it be for the practice, you know? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. The loyalty of patients within the cosmetic surgical field has been well documented. I mean, the average patient is like five procedures over a lifetime. If you can maintain them for a lifetime. I wish only at five. Yeah, that's, yeah. Way over that. If you look at you know, lifetime income from that, you know, our average price point per procedure is just about $11,400. And so, I mean, that's not something we should shy away from. And we also know that the cost of acquisition of new clients is much more expensive than the preexisting ones. So, it just, in every way it makes sense to establish and maintain an ideal relationship. But it really starts from. From the moment you meet them, being very direct, very honest, very, very open, and also expressing limitations. Just being a human. I mean, sometimes patients forget that just because you went to school for a long time, you don't have all the answers. And reminding them that, that humbly, I think, is really important. Have you noticed a Catherine Maley, MBA: change in cosmetic patients from even, I guess maybe pre-social media to now or pre-internet to now? Like, how do you see them now? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I, I, I'd say I'm a little bit biased by my current position in maturity of practice. Probably 55, 60% of my patients, maybe even slightly higher are previous patients. Nice. So, that's, that's advises me because they already know me. They already trust me. They, you know, their daughter, their aunt, and their grandma came. And so, that's a, that's a no-brainer. You should seal that deal. That should be pretty easy. It's the new clients, the new acquisitions that are, are Our, our have changed, evolved quite a bit of course during free money time and low interest rates. And, and COVID was, you know, the heyday for cosmetic surgery. I, I've rarely met a practice that didn't show a significant increase because of time available for recovery, but also Liquidity was very high. Yep. And so, that period is, is certainly changing right now. And we see, seen a macroeconomic tightening throughout the country and all the practices that I deal with. And, you know, you, but it, it's a want and not a need. And thank goodness for that because having weathered housing crisis 2001 bombings there's a, you know, little dips that you take, but. People want what they want and they'll put off their needs. They will not put off their wants too long. Mm-hmm. Catherine Maley, MBA: I agree. So, I want to switch gears a little bit because Sure. You've grown this incredible empire. And then I want to talk about the talk that you gave about the future of cosmetic and plastic surgery and the consolidation. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? So, can you go ahead and, and can you just like a brief talk of what your thought was? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Sure. Well, thank, thank you for, for listening to the talk. I appreciate it. Okay, so, five years ago. I sat down and I thought, you know, I'm not getting any younger. My practice has become a, a behemoth and it would be very difficult to sell the practice to an individual for what it's valued or what I'm told its value is I. And so, I was really struggling with that. So, I thought, well, maybe I could fractionate it, break it down to shares, and maybe five doctors could split it up, and that would bring me some revenue towards an exit. But honestly, it still wasn't anywhere near what the actual cash flow and ongoing value of the practice was. So, I got really frustrated with that and I, I can I Spoken, met with a lot of people from many different industries, auto industries tech industries all over as many people as would listen to me. And so, my, my grandma always said, if you want to want to learn something, just call. And so, I called CEOs from every website I could find. It's amazing how many of them were interested to spend just five minutes with me and tell me about you know, it was like I was a kid in, in high school asking on a school project. And so, I learned and learned and learned, and I realized that where the value in the future of our field, in my opinion, is in reducing redundancy. That was really the central theme. If you think about every garage, you drive by in the United States and it's open in the summer, you'd see a weed whacker and a lawnmower and a trimmer, and gosh forbid they're sitting there like 98% of the time not doing anything. What a waste of money when one community could very well buy a set of lawn, a lawnmower, a tremor, and rotate it throughout the community. Catherine Maley, MBA: There you go. Perfect. That's a great idea. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. I think of it that way and. Yeah. And in our business, that's exactly what we do. Almost every small boutique type practice has an office manager, maybe a person in charge of, so, social media, front desk girl, and an accountant. And, you know, maybe that's the size that they're, they're comfortable with. But my practice had grown so, big that I had, I have, you know, five departments. I've got department heads in each department and ins, subordinates within those departments. And we have department meetings and, you know, it's all very corporatized and just everything was just going that way. So, the more information I got, the more I realized that I, I could very. Quite honestly, I could very easily just go to a private equity consolidated group and just sell my practice. But what I did was I looked at all the available options and there were very few, and still are, very few actually that have gotten to a point of consolidation. And I realized there were a few significant weaknesses and I spent, I. Almost 2000 hours. That's no exaggeration by the way. 2000 hours. I documented all of it. I, during residency, I was very obsessive, so, I documented every hour I ever did during residency. And so, I have that all written down. So, I figured, you know, I've got to keep this up. So, I documented all the time, I spent on the phone, at conferences, at meetings with private equity groups. And I learned a great deal and what I learned was the private equity groups often contributing some form of financing. So, they consistently wanted to take. Plastic elective surgery and Shoe Hornet into the models that they knew. And those models were gastroenterology, ophthalmology, dermatology, insurance-based accounts receivable. Their due diligence process was very foreign into a cash-based system. They didn't even understand that we were prepaid for surgery, you know, a month in advance. It was just, Whoa. Where's your accounts receivable? Catherine Maley, MBA: And there's no accounts receivable. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. None ever. So, I had, I was really like walking into these people that I felt I was the ignorant one, but they had absolutely no understanding of what I was talking about. So, it was actually, I saw that as a great opportunity to, I mean, I always love somebody who's willing to listen to me, so, I had a great. Time kind of going through so, many different groups, speaking to different levels, all the way up to CEOs of these private equity companies, and just hearing what was pleasing to them and what they were scared of. Hmm. What. Oh my gosh. I mean, the list could be very long. Key operator dependency issues. You know, if there's only one doctor in a practice, how can you show me on a, on a cash-based system that your 90 day and one 20-day revenues are going to be there when I'm used to waiting for accounts receivable for 120 days? So, they, they want security. Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, and this, and they want predictable revenues and how you say that in our industry, you know? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: That's right. And all you can do is say, well, I've been in businesses 21 years and it's gone pretty well. Yeah, right. So, I just kept on telling them that, listen, look at the books, look at the data, look at the, the, the cash system is, you know, a 40 to 60% profit margin. You guys are arguing over 13 to 17% in dentistry. I mean, it makes no sense to me at all that you're wasting all this time with dentistry when you've got a cash cow right down the street. I mean it just over and over again. And then one day I got a call back from one of the CEOs and I was in the Atlanta airport at the time, returning from a, a meeting with another private equity group, and he said, Erik, We like what you've been saying, we've been really talking about it, and we want to meet with you and your group. So, that was, I mean, I, I almost cried. I've been telling you my hair stood up in my arms. I was like, yes. And finally, it took me four years to hear that type of response that I was hoping for. And, you know, speed ahead and the tides are turning. There's certainly a tipping point. Of familiarity, understanding, and acceptance. And the world of cosmetic elected plastic surgery is filled with people that make a great deal of money compared to the average person, and they're very autonomous. And this is a tide that's going to take a long time. But that's okay. The, we're, we're in this for the long haul. This is a 10-year project. This is not a one-year project. This is a 10-year project, and I really came up with that idea with a lot of my buddies in construction. And when they look at a thousand-acre plot, they're not thinking about, you know, one year, they're thinking about 10 years in building schools, community parks restaurants, everything. That's a part of urban development. And I just thought that's, that's the kind of approach I want to have in this industry is a 10-year plan. I. So, really that led me to some partners with some colleagues I've known for 25 plus years. All of them that are surgeons. Were business people. Yeah. These are all other surgeons that have been extremely, you'd know all their names if I mentioned them, but I won't mention them because they didn't give me an approval to do so, but they're very well-known people that you would know immediately. And people that after conversations, just like we're having, came to the realization that the future is very strong when you consolidate. Mm-hmm. The strength, and this really comes from the relationship I've had with my wife and my. Fellows and my partners are that we are always stronger together than you are separately. Always, always. And once people get that mentality shift accepted, they go, ah, I get it. So, we can have one accountant for the entire system. That's one cost. We have one c e o, one procurement expert, one person that's saving us 20% on. Allergan or Galderma just 20% right there of negotiating power. When you've got a 50 million a year cash flow company and you sign exclusive contracts, you're going to get tremendous buying power, strength, and it, it's just over and over again. I could go on and on, but I, I hope that's exciting for the viewership. Catherine Maley, MBA: And are you consolidating the HR, the hiring, the managing? Because I find absolutely the surgeons, the number one challenges staff. Mm-hmm. They, they are. So, especially after post covid, they're so, done with staff. Like they're, yeah. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? You know, is, does it include that? Because I can see a lot of practices thinking, oh my God, if I could get this off my plate and get back to doing what I like to do, which is surgery. Yeah. I'd be a happy clam right now. And I'm, and they're, I'm not. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the type of person that we're looking for. And you know, to kind of make this segue a little bit the goal is to have 50 practices that are like-minded, utilizing a centralized call center, centralized HR, centralized procurement. The buying power of, you know, 150 million a year company is just puts you into a totally different league, right? We want doctors to maintain autonomy if they want to. So, we offer a number of different avenues to try to become partners, and it has to be a partnership. There are people that just want an exit plan and we provide that exit plan. There are people that want administrative roles and responsibilities. There are people that want equity in a growing and very rapidly growing corporation that pays dividends. And so, we have avenues for all those different types of people, and we have avenues for people that just want to show up and work. I have a couple people right now that, so, we're constantly interviewing. We're constantly evaluating practices, and you always learn something from that. Those, those communications. Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you involving private equity or is this a physician led consolidation? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Actually, the answer is yes and yes. Okay. Ultimately in order to fund the growth if you study almost every other industry, there's a reason that loans exist. Yes. I mean, why, why not just put it on your shoulders? Well, because honestly, there's a point of growth that you need acceleration and you need to get through a, a bridge, a gap that costs money. And it's, it can be a pretty substantial amount. So, the initial phase of development is a minority partnership with private equity where we maintain 80 plus percent of ownership and all decision-making rights exclusive of a few constraints with utilization of funds. That are appropriate to any financial term, to any company. And but it is a board run by through and about physicians. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the board is made up of decision-making powers by physicians and the business people are also on that board? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes. They have one seat at the board, at the table. They do have some. Again, you know, lots of details, but ultimately decision-making powers of specific hiring roles. Veto powers do exist, but they're extremely limited due to the minority position. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. I'm doing, it's a miracle though. I've worked with, I mean, when I get in when there are more than three surgeons in a room, we have a tough time making a decision, so, Yeah. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? You know. Good, good for you, because I can't imagine all of them coming. How does that work? Can you get a decision made? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I think, again, it all goes back to what I tried to form formally kind of describe, you have to have this mental shift. It's not about me anymore. Yeah. It's about the entity. It's about growth. It's about the quality of consistency of quality of care. Mm. Mm-hmm. And I think those words play very strongly amongst even egocentric physicians. Mm-hmm. So, but getting that shift from me, me, me, Now I have a two-year-old and he's constantly saying, mine, mine, mine. And I just, I got to take a video of it because it reminds me so, much of the first time I meet with a doctor who's got been a very successful doctor in there. They've got these barriers that are so, visible. I mean, you can just palpate and trying to get through that to, to a level of, of greater understanding that this is a societal shift. Hmm. You can either sit back and wait, or you can be a part of it. If you join early, you're going to be in a position of more directorial involvement, right? You're going to have a higher equity value. And what happens if you look at the math and its pretty simple stuff. I'm, I'm the, not the smartest guy in the world, but I do work hard. So, if you look at the math, it's really simple stuff. When you add practices to a group, it becomes stronger. When you exit, meaning when you sell it to a larger fish. So, a small fish is eaten by a bigger fish, and that's the principle at hand here, is that a private equity group comes along and says, this is a prosperous company. They're running very efficiently. They do good business. I want to buy them now before they get too big and too expensive. And then there's an equity transition. And then that doctor can consider, do I want to cash in my equity or do I want to stay on for the next? Bigger fish that comes along and it's just a pretty simple process, but you have to buy into it mentally. You have to understand that ultimately, it's not about the individual practice anymore. It's about the opportunity to take best practices from each location and formulate the best practice. Mm-hmm. Because I can tell you, after spending so, many years and so, much time with all these other practices, there are some things that fall way outside the standard of care. And it's readily available, and I'm very research oriented. I, I'm constantly studying and I don't really do much else except fly airplanes. So, for me I, I love trying to find out, you know, what is the enhanced recovery after surgery, what is the fastest way to get a patient home? What is the most efficient way? What is the safest way to reduce DBTs and blood clot formation and complications after surgery? That is just thrilling to me, and having that energy and enthusiasm and being able to transfer to multiple practices. I mean, I, I mean, I don't know what to say. This is the greatest life ever. Okay. I would love to have that. So, when I can find people with similar, like-minded ideas, then we, we blend pretty well. And the decision making is always about what's best for the patient because the financial returns will come, they will come as a result of running the business properly, running it ethically, morally, keeping track of every dime appropriately and, and always best practice for the patient. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, because this is a business and marketing podcast, I have to ask about the marketing. Yeah, sure. Is the branding now a big name, like your name is Olympus Cosmetic Surgery, is it now like Dr. Smith Plastic Surgery by Olympus? Mm-hmm. Or how does that work? And then who does, who does the patient attraction now? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Does everyone have a big ad budget and the, the front office handles all the, how does that work out the advertisement? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Well, it, it's always evolving. The current situation is that all the practices are independent, but we're consolidating our services. Gotcha. Now, I, I do view in that 10-year time plan that I've told you that there will be a central theme, a central title AEN, a central logo. We have our subgroup; we have our website related to Olympus cosmetic surgery group. Brett's really in the stages. For information for future acquisitions or partners to find us. So, it's not a centralized advertising platform. It will be there's no question that's inevitable, but right now, in each individual location, we're trying to find the most successful practices, and they're successful for a reason. Mm-hmm. Because they've proven their methods successful in their region. So, if they're dominating, we don't want to rock the boat and dislodge that, that dominance from that area, just because we think we know better. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Yeah. Okay, that's a good idea. You know what, I want to wrap it up. Now. I normally, I'm afraid to ask, you know, because I like, I usually like to ask tell us something we don't know about you. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? So, if you can't say that you fly planes, because we already know that. What, what's another one? Cause I'm, you are a very interesting person. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Well, I don't know. I appreciate that. Well, gosh. I would say if I were to, to say the thing that, that you know, I, I, I say it all the time. I'm not, not the smartest guy in the world, but I do work my ass off, and I mean that at a much deeper level than I'm, I'm, I'm admitting I, I think that the. Interest and the passion that I have for studying humanity is, is unparalleled. I absolutely love every moment of this life, and when I go, it'll be just fine with me because I've lived a full and complete one. But just the, the interactions between highly intelligent people, investment bankers, a private equity group, leaders, I mean, These people, if I were a little kid and somebody said, someday you're going to be hanging out with all these people that went to the best schools in the country, and were top of their class in every way, and you're hanging out with them and you're doing pretty well. I'd say no way. You know, so, it just, the, the passion has is there for me. And I, I would just say if, if I could surround myself with people with equal or similar passion as I know you have in your field. I mean, gosh, I've, I've known you for like 25 years I think so, yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I needed to be in this field to hang in there. Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you have to have that undying, never say die, never quit. Passion that is, is, is, is palpable. So, other know, others know it and, and I somehow have been blessed with that gift. So, thank you for allowing me to say that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Congratulations, and thank you for your father for being an orthodontist. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? I had braces a million years ago, and I'm so, grateful it was a life changer. Looking back now, if I hadn't had braces. Oh my gosh. That would be a different story, you know? Yeah. So, Dr. Nuveen, how can people get ahold of you? I'm sure there's plenty of surgeons who are interested in your business model. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? It's very unique and I, and I find it's very multifaceted. It seems like it, you don't have a, a process in ink right now. It's a multiple flexible fluid process because you're evolving right. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery? Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. There are some rigid elements that you can't hear from due to the relationships. Mm-hmm. But we're always learning and we got to have that attitude. I mean, if you look at some of the other groups that have attempted to go down this pathway, they've really had some terrible problems. And, and, and actually it's been a wonderful lesson because you look at what they've done and you're like, well of course that wasn't going to work. You know, lifestyle lift. I mean, I could go down the road. There's, there's been probably 10. That are examples of just poor business practice or lack of transparency, or a lack of partnering. True partnering, it's an overused term. It's one that you really have to focus on is it's got to be a partnership and people have to see eye to eye in the relationship. So, yeah, we'll continue to learn and evolve with the people that want to join us. My, my contact is probably best just as I give to my patients each and every day. Gimme a call. Give me an email. My email is fxfaces@yahoo.com. fxfaces@ yahoo.com or call my cell phone. But also, you can Google, you can get me there as well. My, my telephone number's openly published. It's (405) 550-7522. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, it has been a pleasure having you on Beauty and the Biz. I really appreciate it. I'll see you again at a conference coming up. Looks like you're traveling. Everyone's traveling again. Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'll tell you any, anytime if there's another in interesting issue you'd like to discuss. I, I do lots of other things un unrelated to this topic, but other business things with many different startups and techs and stuff, so, I'm always interested. Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Nuveen understands the future of cosmetic surgery. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Nuveen, you can reach out to his website at, csaok.com. A big thanks to Dr. Nuveen for sharing his vision on the future of cosmetic surgery. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "The Future of Cosmetic Surgery — with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #thefutureofsurgery #thefutureofcosmeticsurgery #eriknuveedmd #eriknuveendmd #dreriknuveen | |||
| 2nd Female President of AAFPRS — with Theda C. Kontis, MD (Ep.204) | 05 May 2023 | 00:48:47 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Kontis is the 2nd female president of AAFPRS. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "2nd Female President of AAFPRS — with Theda C. Kontis, MD". I had the privilege to interview Dr. Theda Kontis, a facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon in a private, multi-surgeon practice in Baltimore, MD. Dr. Kontis has been very active in the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for the past 30 years and was recently elected to serve as the AAFPRS president, making her the 2nd women to hold that title. We talked about her vision for the Academy under her presidency and the challenge of juggling her duties there, while also managing a big practice with multiple surgeons and lots of staff. She also shared her opinions on private equity, the change she has noticed in cosmetic patients' attitudes, as well as staff tips to keep turnover at bay. Visit Dr. Kontis' websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: 2nd Female President of AAFPRS — with Theda C. Kontis, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Kontis is the 2nd female President of AAFPRS. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, I'm very excited about today's guest. It's Dr. Theda Kontis, who is the 2nd female President of AAFPRS. She's a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in a private multi-surgeon practice in Baltimore, Maryland, and the name of the practice is The Aesthetic Center at Woodholme. Now, Dr. Kontis completed her residency and fellowship. At Johns Hopkins and is currently an associate professor there as well. Now, her bestselling textbook, "Cosmetic injection techniques", is in its second edition and has been translated into five foreign languages. She's also authored numerous, and I repeat, numerous research and review articles, book chapters, editorials, as well as conducts research clinical trials. Now, Dr. Kontis has been very active in the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for the past 30 years, and was recently elected to serve as the AAFPRS President, making her only the second woman to hold that title. Dr. Kontis, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, and congratulations on being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS. Theda C. Kontis, MD: Thank you so, much Catherine, and thank you for inviting me. It's quite an honor. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Let's just talk about that for a minute, because I didn't realize you were the president right this minute. I thought it was you were still president and elect. I'm sorry. So, how busy are you juggling that plus your practice, plus your family? How's it going? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, I never could have done it if I had little children, but luckily my daughter's all grown and in medical school. So, it's, it's quite a challenge. It takes a lot more time than I thought it would, but it's really fun. It's fun to be involved and to be able to make changes. And I've been a member of our academy for many, many years and sort of came up in the ranks and it's fun to give back. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. I mean, that's putting a lot on your plate. Is there a lot of travel involved or nowadays is it more Zoom? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: It's all Zoom it Recently our marketing firm. Actually, had me do all these Zoom meetings with magazine editors and they used to take the president to New York City and go in a car and go from one desk to another. And it was fun, but it was not very productive because, you know, how many offices can you go to in a morning, you know? And I could have six. Meetings in the morning on Zoom. So, it was fun. I, I really enjoyed doing, they call them desk sides and working with all of the magazine editors and it really is fun to get the word about being facial plastic surgeons and to trust your face to a facial plastic surgeon to get that word and that message out is, it's fun. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. So, let's just talk about your practice. And I noticed when I was doing some research when I met you a long time ago at the meetings and then I was in your office, you had two surgeons, and now I see you have three surgeons. So, what's the makeup of your practice in today's world? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: I joined my fellowship director. Most everyone has heard of Ira Papel, of course. And Ira was my fellowship director. I was his first fellow. I finished in 1994, and the deal was Ira said, I will train you and then I want you to join my practice. So, when I joined Ira, we had a very small operating room with one nurse who did everything, and we had three secretaries. Now we have 25 employees. A big operating room, a minor procedure room, about 10 nurses, and we hired a body plastic surgeon who was one of the Hopkins residents who rotated with us. And so, he was a good match for our practice. But we don't when, when people. Have a body plastic surgeon join their practice. Sometimes they limit them and say, you can only do tummy tucks and breasts and all the face stuff you need to give to me. But Ira, and I thought that really isn't fair to him because if he does a body work on someone and they want him to do their facelift, It's not fair for him to say, well, sorry, but I can't do it. So, he does everything and it's a really good match. So, the three of us get along great. He's, he's buying into the practice now and it's, it's, it's been good. You know, you have to choose a partner that like a marriage. And the two guys I'm partners with are really, really good. Marriage. Business marriage people. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Well, you're all, you also are very mild mannered and reasonable, so, I bet that helps a lot. But you also probably share the same values. Are you still doing reconstructive and research and cosmetic? Like what's your, where are you spending your time? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Mostly cosmetic. We all do mostly cosmetic. We do some reconstruction with cancer. Skin cancer reconstruction. And the research bit sort of comes and goes. It depends. If there's a project that is that we're asked to participate in, we'll do that. We have a great coordinator. You know, it's so, important to have somebody who just takes over. Like you always say, you know, someone who you don't have to think about. Well, we have someone who does that and so, she just runs everything and we fill in the blanks. And so, I love doing clinical trials. I mean, if I could stop doing all my regular work and just do clinical trials, I probably would because it's fun. But you know that that mix of things really makes every day just different and exciting. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And then where are you at with the surgical versus non-surgical? Is it a priority in your office? Do you have that? Like patients for life mentality where they go up and down the ladder, they start the surgery, work their way down to non, go to non-work, their way up to surgical. What, how did you feel about that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, let me backtrack a little bit on that. When I joined Ira, IRA is a rhinoplasty guy and when I joined him, I actually said, are you sure you want another facial plastics person in your practice? Because we're going to be competitors. Basically. We're going to be fighting over the same patient. And he said, no, no, that's what I want. So, I, I thought, you know, I will never be the rhinoplasty person in the practice. Am I okay with that? And so, the answer was yes, I was okay with that. So, then the next question I asked myself is, how am I going to. Distinguish myself, separate myself from Ira, like why would someone come to me? So, I finished in 1994, and that's just when Restylane and Botox started coming out and I thought, I can master this. I can be the injectable person. And so, I wrote a textbook on it. We did courses on it. So, that became my niche and. That way Ira. Ira does injectables and I do rhinoplasties, but he's known for rhinoplasty and I'm known for injectables. And my injectable patients are patients for life. You know, they love you, they trust you, they appreciate your artistic eye, and when they're ready for something, I'm the person they ask. Is it time for this? Is it time for this? Fillers aren't going to do it for you anymore. You need this. So, it, it's absolutely a gateway and I think that the general plastic surgeons years ago made an error in judgment on saying, We are the surgeons. Other people should do the injectables. And I think that was a mistake that if you don't do injectables and you don't get good with that, you're missing a nice chunk of patients who love you, who want then to move forward with bigger things Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, there's such a balance there. I've seen it every which way where the surgeon says, no, I'm just going to let it go. I just, I'm, I just want to be in the OR. But then you hire nurse injectors, so, I'm sure you have, you, you have several nurses there. Do you have them doing the injectables at all the, the surgeons are doing? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: No, and that's how we distinguish ourselves in the community. Mm-hmm. That the doctors do the injections. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. All right. And are you going to stick to it? Like have you noticed it's taken you away from the surgical or not? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Not a bit. Okay. Not a bit. But I'm busy. I mean, I see 35 patients a day and some of those are injectables and some of those are people who want to talk about surgery. And you know, I can't tell you how often I'm injecting someone and they start asking me questions about surgery and it becomes a cosmetic consult while I'm injecting them. So, You, I can't imagine not doing injectables or passing it off to someone else when I have their ear. I can't expect a nurse who is doing the injections to say, you know, this really isn't going to work for you. You, it's, you're at the point now where you need a facelift. They're not going to say that. They're going to say, you know, I think you need six syringes rather you're four. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, what are all these staff doing? You've got 24 staff and a lot of nurses, what are they all doing? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Okay, I have well, secretaries obviously I have a skincare and laser division as well as the surgical side. So, we've got three estheticians. We've got three laser nurses. So, we've got that side of the business running with skincare, with selling products. The, the Allergan company does a review of metrics to comparison benchmarking. And our aesthetician is off the charts in selling products, so, they, they really have it down and skincare is such an important mesh with cosmetic surgery. You've got to, to change the skin quality to get the best results. So, we've got estheticians, we've got laser nurses, we've got or two ORs going all the time. So, we need nurses for recovery, nurses for the, or. Two rooms going. So, that's a lot of staff. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, that is a lot of staff. Any staff tips? I don't know if you had the dip, like others, you know, the post covid. Did you have HR issues or any tips on managing staff pre Covid or PA post covid? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, yeah, the, the staff really sort of laid the law down with us and said, you know, we could go to Wendy's. And make X amount of dollars an hour and you're only paying us this, so, what can we do? You know, we had to give everybody, everybody got a raise to get them up to this competitive with Wendy's and Burger King thing, you know? So, so, yeah, they sort of held us hostage with that. But they all stayed through covid. They all stayed. They knew we were getting the PPP loans to save them, to keep them with, with income coming in to save their jobs. We didn't lose anybody. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Nice. So, just out of curiosity, does Wendy still pay like that or can you now like what? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? You can't take money away from his, can't take away him a raise. Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah. So, what are you going to do? I mean, the cost of living's terrible, you know? So, what are you going to do? Yeah. We are so, busy you know, all the practices around the world that do cosmetic surgery are, you know, going crazy. Yeah. So, you know, it wasn't a hardship for us to give them a raise and probably they, you know, it was the right thing to do. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: One thing I have learned or I keep hearing the staff will not work at overdrive for very long. They need fun. They need acknowledgement. They need recognition. But they can't live in a pressure cooker every day. Do you, do you feel that or do they, is that the feedback you get or how do you keep it at least calm, you know, in, in the middle of a storm when you're so, busy? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, we fired the one that was the pressure cooker actually. Good for you. Now there's, and that was the mistake, you know, higher, higher, slow fire. Fast. Well, we fired slow, which is a bit of a problem. But there's always a disruptor. There's always something that everybody's upset about. And it was that one person, and we needed, we knew it, but. This person was very productive. And you know, sometimes they hold you hostage because they're such good workers. It's like, oh, we don't want to let them go because they're so, good, but they're driving the rest of the staff away. So, after a few people leave, then you realize that this is just not going to work. They've got to go. And so, once you get rid of that person, then everybody's happy. And the, the doctors set the tone. Hmm. You know, and we, they know, our staff knows that they're appreciated. They know that they're valued. And we treat them with respect. And so, I don't think there's anybody in our office who doesn't want to come to work in the morning. Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. Talking about that. I've even been with practices where it was the office manager who was the drama queen and just 80% of the staff left before the surgeon did something about it. And it's just so, easy for me on the outside to say, get rid of her. But on the inside, you have so, many uncertainties about it. Fear about it losing somebody who's productive, but doesn't it always happen the minute they're gone? You hear the feedback, oh my God, why didn't we do this sooner? Oh, I should have done this. You know, I mean, this has been fantastic. It just, I don't know what the right answer is, except when your gut is telling you that something's not right. I would say just address it sooner rather than later, you know? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: You know, we all tend to have employees that we think are not replaceable. Right. But they are, and that is part of the issue that we think, how can we let this person go? They do everything well, they're replaceable. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I would say though, one of the biggest errors is not getting that employee's intellectual property down on paper. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? You know, if they know everything and they set themselves up for that, by the way, they need to be irreplaceable in their own minds because it gives them safety. We've all had that employee, God knows I've had it too. And that person becomes so, ESHA can't even be sick for a day. And you're like, oh my God, what would I do? I fall apart. And, and then you don't, you know, when it happens because then it's going to, it's going to blindside you. So, I have learned, get all this. Get all this on paper, get it in videos, get SOPs, standard operating procedures get checklists do not let them walk out the door being the only person in the practice who knows what's going on. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Absolutely true. And when we let this person go, part of what we had her doing is sort of teaching other people how to do what she did which was not rocket science, you know, but we sort of, Moved her around and had her show people things. And I think she saw the writing on the wall. But to have your staff be able to multitask is so, important. Never have one person who does one thing and they're the only ones who know how to do it, because they do hold you hostage. And they're done that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Give me like running a practice as long as you have, first of all, the surgeons themselves. Any tips on how, how three surgeons can work together harmoniously? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, they all listen to me, which is good. Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you kind of like the deciding factor if it's pretty much, pretty much there? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: My two partners are very calm, easygoing. They don't get riled up about anything. I'm the more emotional one. I sort of take charge of things and I tell them, look, it needs to be boom, boom, boom. And they say, okay. So, the, it's not a power struggle. We all. Feel comfortable enough to disagree with each other if we need to. But it's just a very respectful, nice group and so, many times you hear of people joining another physician and it just doesn't work out. And I think it's too much of everybody trying to be the boss trying to Dominate one or the other not agreeing about things. And then what do you do if there's two of you, you know, you're at an impasse. But my two partners are just easygoing. Easy to get along with guys. And I. Just works. I'm very fortunate. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I don't hear this very often, so, please enjoy that. You know? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah, I do it. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's not always that way. I do think it's true when you have two alphas in the office that just. Can't work one. It just, one has to be the alpha and one has to be the go along or stay out of each other's way. Like you do the marketing, I'll do the admin, like something like that. Like tight boundaries perhaps. But I'm just glad it's working for you. That's fantastic. Now, are there any plans to. Grow anymore or there's been so, much talk about exiting, like how do you exit these practices? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? It seems to be changing very quickly. There's a lot of talk about private equity coming in and taking over. Any thoughts about that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: I don't know of one person who has sold to private equity who said, this is the best thing I ever did. Oh, no. It's terrible selling out to private equity because you've made your baby, you know, and now you're going to give your baby away, but you still have to be parenting for a while and you're watching somebody else take care of your baby. And it's horrible. Because it all suddenly becomes about the money and it's not about, your staff does not benefit from it. The only person that benefits is the physician who got their millions of dollars for their practice, and we're not going to do it. We, our exit strategy's going to be different. Ira's older than me. Ira's going to eventually, in a few years start phasing out. We hired on Emile Brown, our body guy as part of the, the next generation. He'll eventually take over the practice after I leave. We're looking now at somebody to replace Ira, somebody who has rhinoplasty knowledge, who can sort of. Fit into Ira's practice model and sort of take that going. So, our way of keeping the practice going is to have a succession plan. Mm-hmm. If I were in practice by myself, I, and getting older, I think that probably selling out to private equity is. Maybe a good thing. You get your golden handshake and then you leave. But it's just, it's a really tough thing on your employees who, you know, we love our employees and, and employees aren't happy once the practices get sold. Mm-hmm. So, it's people can do it either way, but I like the way that we've chosen, I'm not going to make millions and millions like I could sell out my practice, but I feel better about it. Catherine Maley, MBA: The one thing that I find interesting with the private equity is they'll consolidate some of the tasks that you don't want to do, like. HR benefits contractual agreements you know, they can pull the resources and get you a better rate on, you know, the, the cost of goods. That part I find interesting. It's the part when the people get involved and who could, who controls the shop. You know, like all of a sudden now the staff who does the staff work for the, the surgeon or the private equity group or that part? It's a little fuzzy, but it's really exploding. Like, it, it's all, it's all I'm hearing about right now, so, I don't have an, an opinion on it yet. I don't know enough about it. All I know is the more people, the more cooks in the kitchen, the more complicated it gets. And I don't know, can you know, can you lose complete control over it? Or can you still have piece of, because one of the things about surgeons, you're, you're in private practice for a reason, otherwise you'd be in the, in the university still, you know? Yeah. So, then to take that away and say, okay, I'm just going to work for you now, I think that's more difficult said than done. If you've been running your own show. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: I don't know. I'm telling you, Catherine, find, find the people that are happy. They sold out. Okay. They're going to be hard to find. I predict that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. That's really interesting. Okay. I'm taking a poll. I'm taking a silent poll out, an informal poll of is this a good idea or not? Because I feel like some of this makes sense, but then what's the other side of it, you know, that I don't, I don't know yet. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: I don't have an opinion yet, so, so, I have a, several dermatology friends have sold out. Okay. Yes. One of them said that all of a sudden there was a new practitioner in her office working with her. Never met her, didn't know anything about her. I don't know if she liked her or not, but all of a sudden, they hired somebody and now she's working side by side with this new person because she has to work in her office a couple years before she's out. Yes, yes. Another staff member in another practice said to a patient, oh, Dr. So-and-so, she's not the boss anymore. Oh, we don't work for her. We work for so-and-so company. And you could tell that they were really bitter about it. Hmm. So, patient, patient care goes down and, you know, we pride ourselves with patient satisfaction and the things we do to coddle our patients. Mm-hmm. That's not coddling. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know. I think it's a bad idea. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I do know another, a Mos surgeon and he, but he was pretty burnt out. He was running a big operation and he was more than willing to let the res go. So, in his case, he's like, yeah, I'm still on board, but I'm just, I just do my surgery and leave. I'm not involved anymore. And, but I think he was at that point. As you do when you get older, you're like, I don't know how much fight I have left in me. You know? So, I think it just has, you have to really watch the variables of this, and you have to know yourself. Are you going to be okay working for someone else? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Are you going to be, okay? When your staff looks at you like I. What'd you do? What happened here? You know? Right. That's the part I worry about the staff saying, I don't work for you anymore. Like what? Right. What the heck? Like that, ah, that's not a good culture at all. Theda C. Kontis, MD: But you, you lose autonomy, like you said. We go into this to have our own practice, to have autonomy. Right. So, your most surgeon may lose his most tech and they'll say, sorry, we're going to hire so-and-so to do your tech. Well, they're not any good. They're not doing a good job. I'm not happy with them. Well, sorry, that's what you get. You know, and then, you know, it's like working at an academic center. You have no, you're stay over what you do. Full circle. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the more fun stuff, and that's the marketing. I want to congratulate you on the incredible outside signage. You happen to get approved on your building. You cannot try by your place without seeing that. How did you ma Nowhere else can somebody have big signage like that on the outside of their building. So how did you, I know, how did you manage that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, I love to negotiate. Okay. I took a course and learned negotiating and I love it. And I buy all the cars in the family because I love negotiating. So, when we, when we Went into our building, which was 20 years ago, they did not allow any signage on the building. Yep. So, we had a 10-year lease. So, the urologist moved in above us about maybe seven years into our lease and put a big sign up. Chesapeake Urology. It's like, wait a minute. Now it looks like we're working in the Chesapeake Urology building, and I did not like that. So, when our lease renewal came up at 10 years, I said, you know, we want to sign up too. And they said, well, Chesapeake has the whole floor. I said, well, we are taking over this other suite next door for our skincare and laser side. Said, that's basically the whole floor. And they said, all right. So, we used the build out money that they gave us to buy the sign, so, it cost us nothing. Yes. So, then when Dr. Brown joined us, we need a bigger sign because there's three names now, not two. So, now we're much bigger than Chesapeake Urology. So, it's, it's wonderful. Catherine Maley, MBA: And you, and you got your names on there too. Names on the building. Yeah. You are like celebrities. Your local celebrities at this point. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah, yeah. People say you can't drive by without seeing our names, so, that's good. And aren't you on like a major thoroughfare? Yeah, pretty. It's in a big shopping area, so, there's a lot of traffic going around. A lot of traffic. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. Let's talk about the patients for a second. Do you, what difference do you see now in patients, cosmetic patients that you didn't see before, and how are you handling that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Like their, their tastes and demeanor or how they, how they work with you. Talk about negotiating. Having the negotiation skills is probably brilliant in today's world. Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, it is, it does help. I tell you, Catherine, it's really, I've had this conversation already twice today. Oh. People are angry. People are angry. They're unhappy. They, you know, in nine 11. When nine 11 happened, we all bonded together. Everyone was nice to each other. Everyone was help you do anything you can to help someone else. Covid pushed us all away from each other, like, don't stand next to me. You could infect me. And we were away from each other for so, long. People have forgotten how to be nice to each other. So, there's this, this undercurrent of anger and unhappiness. With an overlay of social media telling everyone they have to be perfect. So, throw all that into the person that's sitting in our exam chair. You've got someone who wants a perfect result who's already angry. And it's, it's really, I find the patients today very difficult to deal with. I have a rhino I saw a rhinoplasty patient like took they're splint off. Oh. And they said, when do I get my revision? Oh my God. So, so, I'm entitled to a revision and I'm ready for it. It's just, it's mind boggling. I've had all these one-star reviews recently. Either I've become suddenly a horrible doctor. I got one that the patient wrote that 17 years ago they had surgery with me and the staff was rude to them and they were unhappy with their results. I had to write now getting, I had to write back. I had to write back. I really don't understand why it's taken you 17 years. To write a comment like this, I wish you had at least come talk to me so, we could figure out what the problem is. Good for you. But 17 years, they're going to start writing one-star reviews. That's insane. I, I don't know, I, I don't get it. But it's a very interesting question that you ask because people are very different right now. They're hard to please and it's just a different mindset. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, some surgeons now are even videotaping the consultation. They're videotaping the all of the consent forms like it's gotten. That feels so, defensive. Like that can't be building a great relationship if you're videotaping people. But I don't know what the answer is. You know? Do you protect yourself or do you just hope to God these people are reasonable? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: You know, it's all, you have to protect yourself. I'm not videotaping consents. You have to trust your gut. You know, so, many times if, if the staff doesn't like a patient and I don't like a patient, it's probably better not to operate. You know, we always say you never regret not operating on someone. Right. And that is so, true. It's, it's a tough world right now, and social media has not helped. Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you actually active on social media? And if so, like, are you spending any of your time there, your personal time there? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: I had patients tell me, you've got to get on Instagram. So, I got on Instagram and I realized that it was such a waste of my time that I just, I'll post some things periodically just to let people know what's going on. But it doesn't really bring me patience. So, you know, I think if I were a young person starting my practice, I think you have to be in social media. But I think somebody who's, you know, I've sort of peaked in my practice. I don't think I need social media at this point. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm with you. I, I know I'm older, so, it's not that I don't care. It, it's that I don't care enough to spend my time doing it. So, I have my staff work around, work around me to get it done. And I would say that for some surgeons, they have embraced it. Wholeheartedly. And it does attract patients because they have the right attitude. Like they, they want to do it, they enjoy it, they, they like it. Right. And, but I would say if your heart's not into it, there has to be a better way for you to spend your time than I don't even go on there. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? I can't, I'm not allowed to go on there. I'm one of those A c D or O c d or whatever the heck they're called. Oh, is that right? Oh my God. 30 minutes. I'm gone for 30 minutes. I, I, I don't even know what happened around me, and I just think this is not a good use of my time. It's not good for my mental health. So, I stay away from it, but I, I see how it can help. Rhinoplasty though, I would just say generally speaking, they're the toughest patients already. Gosh, to add social media to that as well. I don't know. I do, you do a lot of revision rhino, because a lot of surgeons don't even do the revision Rhino anymore, and then some do it, but they charge a whole lot for it, but it's a lot more risk there. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: So, what are your thoughts about that? Well, you know, you tell a rhinoplasty patient, I tell them there's no such thing as a perfect, perfect rhinoplasty. Do they hear you? When you say that? I was just going to say, it goes in one ear and out the other, and then postop. You say, remember I told you there's no such thing as a perfect rhinoplasty. I had mines done. I can tell you six things wrong with it, but it's better. They don't want to hear that. So, y you know sometimes a little bit of filler. In a rhinoplasty, patient can just make a good rhinoplasty, a great rhinoplasty. So, I do offer that to people sometimes. I do revision rhinoplasties on patients who've had rhinoplasty elsewhere. I do revision rhinoplasty on my own patients when they're not happy. What are you going to do? You know, most of the time we try to do it under local. So, that it's not a huge financial loss. Mm-hmm. But some people need anesthesia, so, at least most of the time you can get them to pay the anesthesia. But, you know, sometimes they're so, angry that's the last thing you need to do, so, you eat that cost. So, you know, sometimes you lose money doing rhinoplasty surgery. Mm-hmm. So, it's, it's a tough surgery and a tough practice to have. I can't say I have to revise eyelids or facelifts or, you know fat OS very often, but boy, rhinoplasty, I mean, there's a standard revision rate that people just, they want perfection and they want it more now than they used to. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. I had a rhino and I was super happy with mine, but as I've gotten older, the darn the scar under my nose started showing more. And I thought, this never ends this aging process. It just, it's, my face is just constantly shifting. But then so, then I goes to my laser people and I say, can you just laser this darn thing? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? And psychologically I feel a lot better. I think that's what a lot of times the patient, they just want you to do something. Exactly. Yeah, that's my little tip there. Theda C. Kontis, MD: And that's the nice thing about fillers. Mm-hmm. Cause they say I just, every time I look in the mirror, I just see this, well, we'll put a little filler there now you don't see it. "Oh yeah. It's better." Catherine Maley, MBA: So, so, what's your theory about patient retention? Are you into the "one and done" or patient for life? What's your feeling on that? Patient for life? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Patient for life, absolutely. It's a silly thing to one and done because they love you. And they trust you and so, they're going to keep coming back. And I mean, that was the beauty of Botox is that they had to keep coming back. You know? So, that's why you have to have, in my mind, you have to have a filler practice. To have people coming back and as they age, they need more filler and then they're going to need surgery. And if you want to have an aging face practice, that's the way to do it. And then they are happy and their friends come in, you know, all my new patients give me names of two or three people that I've operated on who say, oh, I really like how so-and-so looks. That's why I'm here. So, that's how you grow your practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: I call that the long tail patient. The aging face is just a beautiful patient retention strategy because she has other friends just like her who need your services, they care a lot more about your credibility and your credentials and your reputation than some of these younger folks do. They're just more financially. You know, secure. And they're more reasonable it seems. Absolutely. So, they're the ones who but they're the ones who typically will return, refer, review on, approve your photos. How are you feeling about the before and after photos? I'm also doing it in personal study on this one. How do you get patients to approve their before and after photos? Do you ask yourself; do you have the staff ask? Do you hope they just offer? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Okay, so, this is my routine. Okay. When we do consent for surgery, I ask them if I can show their pictures to other patients, yes or no. And if I can put them on the internet, yes or no, and we circle it and they initial it. And so, now I have a record of it. Sometimes they'll say, well, just my eyes, if you're doing my lips, or you know, don't show my whole face. Okay, fine. Then after six to eight weeks after surgery, we do their after pictures and I print them up and give them their after pictures. Nice. And I have, I give it to them on photographic paper in an envelope, and staple to the outside of the envelope is a letter from me thanking them for trusting me with their surgery. And saying, by the way, if you're happy, please write a review, because I'll bet you read reviews about me before you came to me. And maybe 1% of people write reviews, but it does help because they're happy. Now if the results aren't that good, obviously I don't ask them to write a review or if they're mad or something. But most of the time I ask someone for a review. Some of the time they write a review, but giving them their pictures. Is huge because I don't just hand it to them. I say, now look here. See how you had this hoodie here. See how that's better? See how your eyelids are more symmetric and your brow now is above your bone. You look brighter. Let me hold your picture far away. See how your eyes look bigger? And I show them what they need to see because they don't see what we see. For good point. So, it's really important. Don't just hand them the pictures, but actually explain their results to them. So, you know this a little bit that you see here, that's probably going to get better. We'll take pictures again at three months and we'll see. So, I give them their pictures, I ask them for reviews. And then if I think their pictures are really, really good and I do want to show them, I'll ask them again. And sometimes they'll, they'll change their minds. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you're doing the best you can is when you ask yourself personally, they'll say you yes, you way more than they'll say it to the staff. So, I think you're doing all the right things. I have always said give your patients their photos. They need their photos, they want them, they're going to show them. Even somebody who is absolutely private, they will still show them to at least three of their favorite people, you know? Absolutely. Yeah. And nobody remembers what they used to look like unless you show it to them. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: So, Let me tell you that has, just giving them their pictures has made unhappy patients happy. I agree. You know, I don't really see a difference. Well, look at this. Wow, I looked like that. I had no idea. You know, they, because they think they're going to look like someone else. There's this, this thought that if they have cosmetic surgery, it's going to completely change their look. Right. And they say, well, no one noticed. Well, what did people say? Well, they say that they, my hair makes me look younger. Well, they noticed. They just don't know what they noticed. And that's a great result. And then you show them and they get it. Hopefully. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, true. So, what do you think in today's world, what would you say is one of the biggest challenges of being in a cosmetic practice or running one? Or keeping it competitive. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: What would you say is the biggest challenge in today's world? I think it, it's dealing with these angry patients. I think that there's a lot of body dysmorphic. Mm-hmm. And we are terrible at, at figuring out who has it. We've done a study that showed that we all think we're great at it and we're terrible at it. I think there's a lot more psychopathology. And, you know, we have to be really, really careful with treating our patients because they, they will sometimes threaten you with bad reviews. Mm-hmm. You know, if you don't give me my money back, I'm writing a bad review. And it's, it happens. I've had it happen and I'm sure everybody listening has had it happen. It's terrible. So, the patients today are very, very challenging. And I think that you have to go with your gut. If you have a bad feeling about a patient, try not to try not to operate on them or, or treat them. Catherine Maley, MBA: Or if your staff has a bad feeling too, I would listen to them because they oftentimes treat you differently than the staff, and you just want to know as much intel as you can before you say yes to that patient. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Absolutely. My staff has, has a code at the computer where they put a lot of stars. Yeah. And wonder, that means they don't like them. Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's so, funny, I always say, don't you have some kind of a code like a for angry, like a big a with a circle on it. And that tells we got a hot one here. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: A lot of stars. No one knows what stars mean. They think it's good. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's really brilliant too. So, back to ps. As you, as the president, is there like one big like one big issue that you were trying to address during your presidency? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Is that too old? Theda C. Kontis, MD: There, well, there's always. A lot of issues. Our academy itself has an issue with transparency. Mm-hmm. So, I'm working really, really hard at increasing the transparency of what we do, because we do so, much, but people don't know it. So, I'm doing videos, we're doing more e-blasts. We have a Facebook group. And still people don't know what's going on, you know, I mean, we've done everything but smoke signals, you know? But, so, trying to get people more in the loop. And then what is really kind of fun is advocacy. We're writing, right now, we're working with UnitedHealthcare. They've developed a policy that is really not in the best interest of the patient, so, we're working with them to try to get the policy changed. So those are some of the big things we're working on. Catherine Maley, MBA: That must be an act of God, huh? Changing policy. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Can't imagine. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, they're very good at not communicating and making it impossible to communicate with them. It's, it's really how they hide behind everything. So, yeah. So, it's a little bit at a time, but we're making some progress. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. So, I want to wrap it up now, and I like to wrap it up with this last question, which is tell us something we don't know about you. Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, that's a very fun answer because you were not going to believe me. But the thing that you don't know about me is that I am ticket number 664 for Virgin Galactic, and I will probably get my space stride in about 2026 or 2027. Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. That is amazing. Really? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah. I bought a ticket. Catherine Maley, MBA: I did not see that coming Dr. Kontis. I know, I know. Is there rude to ask? How much is it? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Oh, it's a lot. A lot. It's a lot. But you know you work hard your whole life and you think, you know, what am I going to get out of all this work other than just the satisfaction of taking care of patients and, you know, I have a nice car and I have a nice home and you know, what do you need in life? But that's a dream that I've always had and I thought, you know, I'm just going to do it. And I asked my husband if it was okay with him if I bought a ticket and he said there's no way he's going. But I did. And I'm really excited about it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. You win for the most unusual answer. Oh, wow. Good. My Lord. Theda C. Kontis, MD: Thank you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Doesn't that give you something to look forward to? Theda C. Kontis, MD: Oh, it does. And part of the training is that we got to do this zero-gravity flight. Oh. Where we, you go on this airplane that does parabolic flight, so, it goes up and then when it comes down, you're weightless. Oh. And so, you get to feel what it's like to be weightless and they do that for you so, that when you finally go to space, You can unhook your seatbelt and be weightless, but it's not the first time and you can actually enjoy looking at the earth from space and you know, you've already been weightless. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, unbelievable, that was fun. Unbelievable. Okay. Wow. If anybody has any questions for you or would like to contact you, how would they do so? Theda C. Kontis, MD: They can email me: tckontis@aol.com. Catherine Maley, MBA: About the AOL. Theda C. Kontis, MD: I'm old. Catherine Maley, MBA: Might want to Gmail. Theda C. Kontis, MD: I know. Catherine Maley, MBA: What's your website? ACW or something? Theda C. Kontis, MD: www.ACWPlasticSurgery.com. Mm-hmm. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Dr. Kontis, it has been an absolute pleasure. I will never re forget this. Yeah, now I think I need a really big goal because I didn't, I wasn't thinking that big. Okay. And then thank you so, much for being here. I will see you at an upcoming meeting, hopefully, and enjoy your presidency. Congratulations. Theda C. Kontis, MD: It's always a pleasure, Catherine. Thank you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Kontis is the 2nd female President of AAFPRS. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Kontis, you can reach out to her website at, www.ACWPlasticSurgery.com. A big thanks to Dr. Kontis for sharing her wisdom as the 2nd female President of AAFPRS. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "2nd female President of AAFPRS — with Theda C. Kontis, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drthedakontis #thedakontismd #aafprspresident #aafprs | |||
| 50 Lasers and Devices — with Bruce Katz, MD (Ep.203) | 28 Apr 2023 | 00:52:04 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to Dr. Katz has 50 lasers and devices. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "50 Lasers and Devices — with Bruce Katz, MD". Non-surgical rejuvenation is a big deal. The global non-invasive aesthetic treatment market size was valued at 61.2 billion in 2022 and is projected to expand at a compound annual growth rate of 15.40% from 2023 to 2030. (Resource: Grandviewresearch.com) And, the most popular non-surgical procedures are Botox, Fillers, Fat Reduction, Skin Tightening, Skin Care Treatments. So, I thought it would be interesting to have Dr. Bruce Katz, MD on the Beauty and the Biz podcast. Dr. Katz is a board-certified dermatologist who practices dermatology, cosmetic, and laser surgery in Manhattan, Queens and worldwide. Dr. Katz is a leading innovator and researcher performing clinical trials on advanced laser technology, cosmetic surgery, body contouring & dermatology. We talked about the plethora of non-SX technologies entering the marketplace and what else is coming down the pike. Very exciting! He also had great advice for those buying technology, so you actually make money from it (that was promised from the salesperson) ;-) Visit Dr. Katz's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: 50 Lasers and Devices — with Bruce Katz, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Katz has 50 lasers and devices. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, I have a very special guest today because he's not a plastic surgeon, but he is a dermatologist and has experience with 50 lasers and devices. And it's Dr. Bruce Katz. He's a board- certified dermatologist who practices dermatology, cosmetic and laser surgery in Manhattan, Queens, as well as worldwide. Now, Dr. Katz is a leading innovator of advanced laser technology cosmetic surgery. Body contouring, research and dermatology. He has more than 50 lasers and devices and has been treating more than 95k patients for their aesthetic needs. That's a lot. Dr. Katz is the director of the Juva Skin and Laser Center, and also the Juva Foundation Research Center that has been performing clinical studies for more than 20 years. As a matter of fact, they have participated in over 70 studies. Dr. Katz, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Bruce Katz, MD: Thank you Catherine. Pleasure to be here. Thank you. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you just start us off by telling us describe your practice practices and the services you provide? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we're a cosmetic dermatology practice and we do a lot of fillers, toxins, a lot of laser work, body contouring work. I was one who introduced Smart Lipo here in this country about 20 years ago now. And you know, we also do a lot of clinical research on all kinds of different technologies, whether it's lasers. We did actually the recent F D A trials for dify, the new toxin. We do filler studies as well. And also, you know, laser and body contouring studies too. And then also we do big pharma type of studies on acne, eczema, psoriasis, and all kinds of you know, medical dermatology as well as cosmetic me, cosmetic dermatology and, and cosmetic surgery. And also, I I'm a clinical professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai here in New York, and I lecture nationally and internationally. Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord, do you ever sleep? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah, once in a while. Catherine Maley, MBA: God. Okay, so, I, you know, I'm always curious to find out how can you manage the dermatology practices? I've done a lot of work with them because a lot of them want to take advantage of all of the quantity of people they have and turn them from medical to cosmetic, so, I'm very familiar with that. But one of the challenges is it's such a busy practice with so, many people in it. Are you focused on like, how do you focus on medical and cosmetic and then don't you also do Mohs. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, I focus mostly on cosmetics. I have associates who do Mohs and also general dermatology. We do a lot of skin cancer work too. Yeah, so, you know, my colleagues do the other type of more diverse procedures in medical dermatology and skin cancer work. And I focus mostly on cosmetic dermatology and cosmetic surgery, as well as laser surgery too. Catherine Maley, MBA: And then the clinical studies, are those also done under the same roof as the cosmetic and the medical, or do you need to spread that out? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? I don't know how much space it takes to do that, but… Bruce Katz, MD: Well, we have three full-time people just doing our research at our center, and we have a large center in midtown Manhattan, about 5,000 square feet. Oh. So, we, we know, we also have a big area for our research studies too, which obviously you need, if you're running 10 and 12 studies at a time. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that new doxy, I think it's called. Mm-hmm. How, how long does it last? Because we, people who love our Botox, the, our biggest complaint is, well, you know, could it last longer? What's the, what's the scoop on that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, the Scoop, Catherine, is, it does last longer, usually six to eight months, and I saw that in the clinical trial. So, I don't think there's any question about it. I mean, it could vary in some people, but I think on average, you know, at least six months, some people even up to nine months in fact. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good. Well, keep, keep researching that. We need it to last longer than that too. All right. I just feel like I'm constantly getting my Botox done. I'd like to. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, now you can try something a little different. That'll last for certainly, certainly a lot longer. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is it available now worldwide? I mean not, not worldwide, but like easily distributed to everybody or is it still out there in the general distribution. Specifically? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we were, we were one of the, we were part of the group that was, you know, introduced to it initially. Mm-hmm. You know, I guess to, you know, just try it out. Make sure there are, you know, no issues. But there certainly weren't, and now I think it's available around the country. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, terrific. All right. Now let's get back to, you run a pretty big boat there. You've got two locations, a lot, it sounds like three locations. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: A lot of people. actually, four now. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh Lord. Okay, so, how many staff? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, we have about 45 people, you know, between the four offices now, so, it keeps us busy. But you know, we we're really organized, so, everything runs really smoothly. And we have a great team of people. My administrative people as well as our clinical team are great, our research team as well, and that's really important. As I'm sure you know you know, you're in a consulting business, you know, your staff is what really makes your practice and. You know, the front office people are the face of your practice, so, they're really important as well. But you know, we have regular meetings. I think that's, that's imperative to communicate regularly. And, and that's why we have a very smooth operation, I think. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. And you're absolutely right. I don't understand why there aren't more regular meetings. Just catching up with everybody and getting everyone on the same page. It just, it saves so, much time and hassle with miscommunication. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? And when you're not communicating, the staff will make stories up. You know, they did. They're, they're trying to communicate without you, and that's never a good idea. How did you find how. Didn't you have any trouble, like post co covid, post covid trying to get the right people in place. Have you had any issues with that or what's your secret to hiring the right people? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we had a great team, you know, even before Covid. Mm-hmm. But we did lose some people as a result. And it has been a little difficult getting new people to come in. But, you know, we try a variety of different ways to do it and, you know, often asking our current staff if they know people, friends or family as well. And somehow, you know, we do get those people in. Mm-hmm. And fortunately, good people who manages everybody. Catherine Maley, MBA: There's no way you're doing that. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, no, I have a great, you know, front office manager and clinical manager. We also have, you know, great people in our, in our clinical staff as well to manage back office too. So, it all works, you know, very well. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, let me ask you to get the right people, right, but you, I mean, I would think you have different profit centers set up. Like you would have one for cosmetic, one for research, maybe one for Mohs. Is it like that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, that's true. We sell, sell products in our, in our practice as well. That's another area. And we have person who supervises that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I'm going to ask you about that, but where I'm getting to is, are you still, so, are your kind of in silos? Like are, are those teams working separately or are you trying to develop this big mission statement and vision where everyone's under one roof all working together as a big team? Or is it siloed? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, it's, it's, it's a little bit of both. In fact, I mean, we have one obviously great team that works together, but we have individuals that are responsible for certain areas. You know, one person is responsible, say for the products, and making sure that we keep the right inventory. Another person is responsible for billing and, you know, making sure, you know, bills get paid. And also, you know, accounts receivable. So, we have these different. Buckets that, you know, people focus on and are responsible for. And then also in terms of research, we have a manager of our research, our research director, and he is responsible for making sure that the studies are done properly and that patients come in, subjects come in and come in regularly. So, it, it's, you know, pretty well-oiled machine I'd say. Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. You had mentioned skincare and I noticed online you have your own skincare store. Mm-hmm. Give me your thoughts on that. Has it been a revenue stream? Has it been okay? Has it been a great idea? Like, where are you at with that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, it's certainly a, a very substantial revenue stream. We use Shopify, which, which is a great technology to help us with that. And You know, it's, we have a variety of different private label products and also other, you know, proprietary products that we promote as well. It depends on, you know, what we need, which, you know, what, what products we think are best in their class, and we go for that, whether it's private label or proprietary. You know, we always want to find the best products, the newest and the most advanced that will give our patients the best results. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's really interesting what you're saying because most practices say, oh, I'm selling, I, I have a skincare line. And I say, well, how, how's it going? And they say, well, the staff won't sell it. And you're saying you're not even necessarily marketing to your own patients. You're, you went Shopify, you went to the world like are you on Amazon, kind of thing. Like can they find you on Amazon? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: No, we're on Google actually. We're not on Amazon. Google has also, you know, promotion of, of products. You know, we don't want to be, you know, I think Amazon is a great venue, but you know, patients can call. Our office or email us and we send them products. You know, we have clientele all over the world, so, you know, they can come to the office to pick up a, you know, a product when they run out. Mm-hmm. So, we have a great team that just deals with taking care of product sales and making sure when people need more of those products, that we send it to them and, and they, they get it. They don't have to worry about going to Amazon or elsewhere. So, it's very easy for them. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Do you, do you think though, that most of the revenue is coming from your current patients who know you, or have you put enough into Google, I don't know if you're doing PPC or some kind of advertising, to get the public in general to buy it? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Do you know? Bruce Katz, MD: I say the majority is our own patients. Gotcha. Okay. We do have some people who call us who, you know, may have heard about their products from friends or family. Mm-hmm. But I say the majority are really just from our patient population. We don't really try to sell. To the public. Generally, as you know, that's a very competitive space and the margins are extremely razor thin. So, and I don't think it's really an area that we can compete in, to tell you the truth, because all the big brands, you know, have a lot more marketing Cloud than we do that. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why honestly when I see doctors putting a whole bunch of money into their skincare website. I just say, you know what, let's, let's just, just, if you want to be practical about this, when I look at your revenues by procedure, it's never been more than 2% of overall revenues. You know, skincare is never more than 2%. And I say, let's just put it in perspective though. If it's 2%, then spend 2% of your time and your staff's time. And your resources on that, but the rest, you know, go somewhere else where there, where there's more money to be made. It's so, competitive. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, I think you're absolutely right, Catherine. From what I've heard, I mean, I could be wrong, but even from what I've heard from Dr. Lines or quote Dr. Yeah. Lines that are carried in Sephora. Yeah. Or in Bloomingdales, or. Other, you know, retail places. Yeah, I hear that. They, they find it very hard. They have to pay for all their own marketing in, in those stores. They have to have their own little sections that they have. They have to hire their own people. And I would think that, you know, the profits are extremely thin for all the effort that goes into it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Exactly, unless you can somehow hook up with the pharma group, you know that you need a pharma budget, frankly, in today's world. Right. Get that to happen. Yes. So, regarding any mistakes you've made, like, because you have been around a really long time and you've done it all and you've worked with vendors, you've worked with pharma, you've worked with PR agencies, you've worked with a bunch of staff like, and all the research that goes into. That's a whole other world as well. Like what, what would be your advice to others who maybe are thinking about doing research but also doing their own private practice? Is it viable to try to do both when you're like a solo practitioner? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: You know, that's a very, that's a very important question that you raise and I think, I think you know, a lot of my success over the years, And you know, we are always looking to introduce the newest technologies to our patients and we get a lot of media attention for doing that. But where does it come from? And it actually comes from the research we do. And a lot of people don't understand that. But if you come out. Say with, you know, you, you're doing research on a, on a new technology, take Taxify for example. So, you know, that was, you know, really a breakthrough technology compared to the other toxins available. Cause it lasts a lot longer. You know, we did the clinical trials, the f a trials, we were one of the sites that did that. So, we are first to market as a result because we have the experience. People don't come to us because they hear that. You know, we've treated 40 patients even before it was FDA approved in the clinical trial. So, that gives us a lot of credibility, right, right away. And then the media. Calls us because they know we have experience and we can talk to them about how it actually works and how does it feel for patients? Does it feel any different? Does it act any differently than other toxins? So, by doing the research, and I, and I can repeat this for so, many other technologies that we've introduced over the years, Catherine, you know, Cul, for example, another breakthrough technology, the first to build muscle of any body contour in treatment. Well, we did the F D A trials there. We've done many studies on cul, cul neo, and other technologies in that, in that sphere. Smart lipo. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I was the first to do that. I introduced it to this country and did the first FDA trials for it, and we got huge media attention. As a result, and that helps our practice. But it all came from the research, and this has been true of other technologies we've used over the, that we've done research on over the years. And then, you know, we use also for marketing and PR. Catherine Maley, MBA: I used to do a lot of pr well, decades ago because it was so, new and, you know, new and it was just so, new and, and nobody knew anything or much about it, the consumers didn't. And it was very easy to call. I could literally pick up a call, pick up the phone, call the station manager of my local radio or my ro local tv and then I'd say, okay, what do you think about this story? And they'd be like, Sounds good. Maybe next week, you know, call me back. And nowadays you, there's nothing else to say. So, the secret is because you have so, much PR on your website and you are definitely the innovator and the thought leader and your, I can see why the media would go to you because of the research. You didn't just pay to play. You didn't just get a PR company and say, okay. Give me, get me some pr and they'll be like, well, what's our topic? Like, what, what can we, what does the all the PR people or the media channels care about is what's new for their audience. Exactly. And the only thing that's new is what you've been researching. So, you have the, you're on the front line there. So, that's, that's the secret. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Good for you. Oh yeah. Well, that's, and that's given us a lot of currency. Another example right now is M Face, that's the new technology for facial lift and building muscle on the face as well. Another similar to M Scope, but for the face, we just did an interview. It'll be coming out tomorrow on Hollywood Life. That's you know, a big website. They get 30 million eyeballs every month. Mm-hmm. And all, cause you know, I, one of the people at Hollywood Life tried it out at our office. And they had great results. So, they wrote a story about it. And that gives us a, also a lot of exposure for this new technology as well. And that only came out in the last few months. But that's very important, very important to be first to market. That really Right. Gives you a big advantage compared to your, your competitors. And again, it just comes from the research. Catherine Maley, MBA: But the holy Grail for us women who are aging, especially women, men too, but you, you know, you can only have so, many facelifts and, or you don't want a facelift and you just, you're, you're afraid or whatever. If that really, honestly, does it really work? Like, are we talking. Noticeable results are so, subtle that you wouldn't notice, like, oh yeah. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: No, you see, you see noticeable results. No question about it. Great thing about it. Also, it's non-invasive. Mm-hmm. It's a 20-minute treatment. You do four treatments, you know, once a week, and people love the results. I mean, they, they can see it right away. Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. And is the last thing, how long. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we think it'll probably last at least a year. Oh, okay. As have the other mco treatments. And then, you know, you probably do maintenance once or twice a year. The 20 minutes each time is pretty easy. Right, because painful. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Sometimes I have watched a lot of these where you have to have multiple treatments. Like remember sculpture, you had to have three treatments. The patient journey is tough because the patient journey was you have a sculpture treatment. Then your face is fairly puffed out, like you have some swelling and you look fantastic. Then it goes away. Then you have to go back and get another one. Then it layers onto that and again, you have a beautiful. Affect treatment and, but then it goes away. Then the third one, you know, supposedly builds that up. The problem is, is half the patients won't get through all three. You know, so, that's one of the issues is the, I love the non-invasive, but there's a cost to that, and that is time, you know, and repetition. So, it's just, I just find this so, fascinating. Like, what are you finding in the industry, like surgical versus nonsurgical? How much has that changed in, in the world, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, I think you know what really talks to that is the fact that a lot of plastic surgeons are now doing these treatments. Right? Right. Because obviously they know people want try dose first. You know, we know surgery does. You know plastic surgeons do great work and their results are amazing, but a lot of people, you know, particularly women today who are working, you know, juggling, you know, family life and the workplace as well, find it really hard to do surgery when, you know, they may be just having early changes. They may be getting a little bit of jowling, a little laxity of the neck, perhaps, you know, some, you know, looseness around the eyes. And they're not ready for surgery. So, what do they do? You know, they want to have these treatments that are non-invasive, no downtime. 20 minutes to half an hour each. So, it's very easy, you know, I mean, we're in Midtown, so, our patients find it very, very easy to come to us. We're on 56th and Park and you know, they could just jump in at lunchtime, have these treatments and go right back to work rather than taking off two weeks after a facelift or, you know, other major plastic surgery procedure. And they, you know, not, are not necessarily ready for that. Mm-hmm. And even if they see a plastic surgeon, They'll be told that as well, that, you know, that little bit of Jing or a little laxity of the neck doesn't warrant a deep, plain facelift. Mm-hmm. But you know, plastic surgeons now are offering these non-invasive treatments cause they realize instead of losing that patient, say, well, you're not ready. You know, chow River, dci. You know, we can offer you something in the meantime like evoke, which is another type of radiofrequency technology to tighten the jowls or tighten the neck or another, you know, m face treatment to give you a lift to the face where you may be getting a little bit of a droop. And they don't lose the patient. They keep them in their practice until they're ready for a facelift and then they see that plastic surgeon. So, you know, it's not, you know, one or the other anymore. It's really a combination of doing both. You offer people, you know, early on with the early changes, non-invasive, even though they have to come in several times for the treatment, they're fine with doing that because they're not losing any time from work or their family. Mm-hmm. And I think that's a reasonable approach. Catherine Maley, MBA: And in, and in addition to that, after you've had a facelift, it never stops. The aging process never stops, and nobody wants to go through it again if they don't have to. So, if these treatments, you can get that patient at the beginning when they're just thinking about surgery, but they're not ready yet. The, they're worth thousands of dollars to you while they're thinking about it. Then they, even if they have the facelift, they're worth many thousands afterwards. Trust me, I'm this patient. Well, that'll keep coming back trying to keep that facelift in order, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah. It's so, right. And also, I think by starting early on with these noninvasive, you can actually delay having a facelift because you're stimulating collagen. The changes aren't, you know, as dramatic as they would've been had you not started with the noninvasive earlier. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Just out of curiosity, I feel like I'm doing a consultation with you. It, it used to be, you know, I was around for therapy and the other one, Thermage, and just her, the pain threshold was ridiculous. Has, have they done anything about that? Has the new technology become less painful? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah. Well, those, those technologies are really old technologies, Catherine, but the new ones are not painful. They feel mostly like a warm massage I'll take that, have much more advanced, you know, energy sources. Mm-hmm. So, you don't have the pain that you would from the whole therapy particularly. That was, you know, I tried it early on when it first came out and I felt the pain. They were treating my face. I felt the pain in my feet, how intense it was. But and also, You know, with homage it's not as painful, but you need to have, you know, a technician working on that person for 40 minutes. You know, with the pandemic in the last few years, a lot of people who came into our practice didn't want someone working on them cause they're concerned about getting sick. So, these certain, these particular companies like BTL in mode, they developed these hands-free technologies and sign was sculpture as well. They develop these hands-free technologies, so, we just put the applicators on their face, their neck or their body, and walk out of the room and the patient can sit there, they can read emails, they can listen to music, read a book, and, and not, they're not in pain, but they don't have someone hovering over them for 40 minutes and worried about getting sick. Yeah. So, that's been a major. I think sequela of the pandemic, which has been very positive because it also is very beneficial for the practice. You don't have to give up one of your staff to perform a procedure for a half an hour or 40 minutes when you can just put on the equipment, the applicators, walk out of the room and let them do something else or treat another patient and not have them only devoted to one patient for 40 minutes. So, saves you staff time as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: Aren't you? It's shocking how far the technology has come. Mm-hmm. Just so, many options now and then they, they're trying to do this, do it yourself at home. What do you think about that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, those, those technologies are so, dumbed down. Yeah. Because, you know, you know, the companies don't want people to get burned or scarred. Right. They really have very little benefit and, you know, from laser hair removal to skin rejuvenation with l e d light. Or the helmets to grow hair. You know, they're all, they're all so, you know, modest. In terms of benefits, I would say they may work a little bit. But it takes many, many sessions, you know, hours a week to do these treatments. So, most people eventually give, give it up. It's the same ideas, you know, you know women when, when hair coloring came out in the pharmacy, so, women could buy, and guys also, they can buy their own hair coloring. Hair coloring. Do it at home. Save money, not go into the salon. What happened? Well, you know, eventually they got stained all over their bathrooms and, you know, splatter everywhere and they went back to the salons and had it done in the salons. So, you know, they, patients who come back after trying these things at home come back to our offices and realize that, you know, even though they have to spend some time in our office, they get much more beneficial effects and more efficacy as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it sounds like the theme is tightening, you know, like it's, it's tightening. Would you, the research you're doing right now, is there anything coming up the pike soon that you could tell us about or down the road? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: I can't tell you about it, but there are, I could tell you that there are things definitely, you know, coming up the turnpike and they keep getting better and better, you know, more efficacy with minimal downtime. Shorter treatment times as well. So, there, there's new technologies coming along all in a pipeline. Catherine Maley, MBA: And that's what we're all looking for as a consumer patient. No downtime, no scarring, no pain. Oh yeah, that, that's, that's what we need because we're also darn busy. I, I don't have a week, I don't have a week to take off and hide anymore, you know, if I can get up and running again in a day. That's the, that's where the money is. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I can tell you, you know, right now about one new technology for tightening, please. That is just coming out and it's called Micro Corine. It's actually by a company called Cires, and it actually takes away tiny little pieces of skin without causing any scarring and with minimal downtime. So, it's actually removing tissue, you know, up till now. The way we did skin tightening was basically trying to stimulate collagen to tighten the skin. Mm-hmm. But we didn't remove skin, you know, aside from surgery now we actually can take away tiny little discs of tissue, almost microscopic, without causing scarring. And as these little wounds heal, the skin tightens. So, that's a whole new technology. And you know, some say it can actually take away as much tissue on the face as a facelift does. Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. Yeah. All right. When's that going to happen? Because I need, I need that. Bruce Katz, MD: We'll be getting that probably in the next month. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. That soon? Bruce Katz, MD: Test out. So, I'll let you know and you want to come in, check it out. Catherine Maley, MBA: Please. I'll be right over. Yeah. Even though I'm California, you're in New York. That would be worth the trip over. All right, so. Lately I've been talking to a lot of surgeons who have been around a long time and they're contemplating their exit strategy. And I just want to, I, you may be or may not be, but I'm just hearing so, much about how do you exit from this industry profitably, you know, and comfortably. Mm-hmm. Now are you the mindset you're going to stay until the bitter end? Are you going to. Do you have a plan for exiting? Are you going to sell to private equity? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Like what? Any thoughts on that that you want to share? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, I can tell you, you know, my former partner, Dr. Alexander Fisher, was also a very famous dermatologist. Mm-hmm. And he worked till he was 91. So, I have a legacy to fulfill here, Catherine. So, check with me in about 15 or 20 years. I'll let you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why you're exercising. Yeah, keep that. Keep stay on that electrical machine. But do you have any, like, just regarding the business side, do you have any advice for the newbies coming up, or guys who've been in solo practice and they're just trying to figure out how to grow or how to scale? Like let's say they're tired of medical and they want to get more into the cosmetic side. Any advice for any of them on how to not just enter the market, but how to position yourself in the market to your benefit? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: You know, I think it's really important to become expert at one procedure at a time. Mm-hmm. That's the best way to start some. Mm-hmm. Some young doctors try to do a variety of different things and they don't really do any particular thing really well, and that doesn't really help grow their practice because patients may not be completely satisfied. So, they don't talk to other patients. I think, you know, that's, that's the first thing to be doing. You know, one, learn one thing at a time, get expert at it, and then do the marketing. You know, we do a lot of social media. We have seven different platforms that we, we market on social media. Our Instagram if people want to check it out, is @JuvaSkinAndLaserCenter. Catherine Maley, MBA: You're doing a good job on that. You've got a nice following going. So, are you putting that time in? I mean, you're in there, but you can tell you're not. I mean, you're not spending a lot of time. No, no. Preparing it. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: I have a person who does great job with that. And she runs all those sites. And then she also works with our in-house marketing person, who also does a great job. And, you know, we do a lot of videos, as you know. Yep. As your specialty, I'm sure. Yeah. Telling, you know, docs to do lots of videos or procedures they do, talking about new technologies or what's new in there, in their particular practices. So, we do a lot of work there and also, Helping to develop a, a network a marketing. And I think a media network is critical. So, once a young doctor starts out, they should try to develop relationships with people in the media. And, you know, I just fell into it many years ago because of the new technologies that, you know, I was coming out with and. 20 years ago when I camp with Smart Lipo, I had People Magazine approached me about the story cause they happened to be at a meeting. I was lecturing out in London and I had a five-page spread on in People Magazine about Smart Lipo. And I had patients coming in from all over the world for the next two or three years to do, you know, liposuction. So, but you know, trying to curry. Relationships, develop relationships with the media is really important because like you mentioned earlier, you know, I think the media, people call it Feed the Beast. They're always trying to feed the beast, you know, talk about new stories, you know, scoop their competitors cause they're competing as well as, as doctors are competing against other doctors, while media people are competing against other similar outlets To get to the newest stories out first. So, by creating a media network, which, you know, fortunately over the years we've developed, so, when we come out with something new, I can just call them or I say, come in and try it. Say how you like it. And then they decide if they want to do a story about it. I don't pressure them, I want them to, you know, give an honest appraisal and not say, this works when it really doesn't. And I don't want to ever present a technology that doesn't work to a media person. Cause you know, They're not going to do a, a good story. And if they do a good story about it and it's really isn't effective, patients are going to come in and be unhappy. So, you want to be honest with the media. Don't ever try to, you know, put something over them about a technology that you're just trying to promote, even though you know it doesn't do very much. Mm-hmm. Because they'll figure it out and, and you'll end up getting negative feedback as a result. Catherine Maley, MBA: How important is the Mass media pr. I'm from before the, the good, the goods, like the TV and the magazines and the newsprint versus the new world today of digital. Have you changed your approach on PR and media now that everything seems to have gone online? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, yeah. You have to make, make a big change. I mean, you know, years ago, I'd say probably even five or six years ago, still the most effective media was tv. And, you know, we did a lot of tv. I was on the view all the time. Mm. You know, the Today Show, good Morning America, CNN, and that gave us huge exposure, right? People coming from over the country, internationally. But in the last five or six years, that's pretty much dried up. I mean, TV still works if you know, if you're lucky to get that. But it's been harder and harder because they're not doing. That many cosmetic stories anymore, and they're leaving it more to their. They're digital out outlets. So, some, you know, whereas the View may have done a lot of cosmetic things years ago, and we would actually do live procedures on the view, we would treat sunspots with a laser or do a laser resurfacing on someone live on, on the show. Mm-hmm. But today, you know, they may do a, a video of it on their, on their website or on their, you know, Instagram. But they don't do it on their, on the actual program anymore. So, it's really digital, you know, and social media. I mean, that's really where it is, where it's at today. Catherine Maley, MBA: In terms of marketing, how much of your own time is spent on social, creating that content? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: I don't really create any of it. Good. I just have our, our, our people do it and they do a great job. You know, they ask me to do videos and I'll do videos. I'm always happy to, you know, to talk about the latest things. And I encourage them to do stories about, you know, what's new in our practice, what, what we're doing, you know, that's interesting. Or we're even talking about, you know, how to, I'm going to do a video tomorrow on how to make the change in skincare from winter to s to, you know, warmer weather. Of course, that's, you know, something that a lot of people contending with right now as the weather gets warmer. So, it's not always about just new things that we're doing, but also things that are important to our patients in terms of their own lifestyles. There's, Catherine Maley, MBA: In today's world, I almost think if you're going to play the game, especially in the jungle you are in in New York you almost have to have a marketing team. You have to have somebody who understands digital, somebody who understands social you know, someone's got your website covered and that content because your website you have a killer website with tons of content on it. And that doesn't happen by accident. Somebody's got to do all of that, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, wouldn't you say you have more a bigger marketing team now than you ever did before? Because it's so, mandatory to be everywhere. Bruce Katz, MD: Well, certainly, you know, in terms of, you know, adding digital and social media. Yes. Mm-hmm. But we've always had, you know, someone doing our marketing. I mean, that's, it's like any other business in a competitive field, particularly in a market like New York. Everyone has to do that. Yeah. But you know, it's, I think it's also important to mention that you can't just. You know, hire someone to do it or let them run with it. The doctor has to also be, you know, in communication, you know, we meet once a week, sometimes even more frequently. I meet with my, not only my research team, but also with our marketing team and making sure that, you know, they're, we're all on the same page. They give us a review of what they're working on, and before anything goes out of my office, I review it. So, nothing goes out to the media. Nothing goes out in social media or e-blasts without me or one of my associates who, you know, are providers in a practice reviewing things because sometimes marketing people may not get it right, and you don't want something to come out that's inaccurate or misinformation or, you know, not true. So, you know, it's always a point. You can't just say, run with it and not be involved. The doctors have to be involved too. That's very important. Catherine Maley, MBA: But then you have the public coming at you when you do pr and you have a big name out there and you throw a big net out. Now you have to deal with the response to that. And have you found that the patients are a lot different in today's world? A lot flakier like I've noticed like for example, plastic surgery, they can have 1100 leads. I just saw this the other day, 1100 leads and. All, you know, the journey from the time they call to the time they come in, to the time they have their console, to this time they say yes was 12. So, they went from really 1100 to 12 paying procedures. And all I can say is that's a lot of work. Talk about a needle in a haystack to find the, the 12 that wanted to give you money. Do you, are you finding that yourself that there's a lot more quantity but not as much substance? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: You know, I think it's probably truer in plastic surgery because you're talking about much bigger ticket items. Yeah. Whereas here, you know, in, in dermatology, you know, someone comes in to have a Botox treatment. First of all, we tell them, you know, if you don't like it, it doesn't last anyway. So, you don't have to worry about committing to a procedure that you have live with for forever. Right. And it's, you know, a few hundred dollars. So, it's not a terribly expensive procedure that they have to really. Think about for months at a time. Whereas on a facelift or a breast dog or lipo, you know, people will, will spend more time considering it. I find that to be the case in my liposuction patients. Mm-hmm. You know, they'll come in, we'll do an evaluation, a consultation, examination, and then they may take, you know, a few weeks to decide. Mm-hmm. But then again, you know, We could also tell when people are just shopping, right? And, you know, we know that that's not going to be a, you know, we're not going to close that deal. So, I think you have to just, you know, put your emphasis on ones that are realistic and more likely to, to close. And then also make sure that your staff follow follows up. You know, I have, I, I know, you know, not just plastic surgeons, but dermatologists who see patients for cosmetic procedures and never follow up. With them if they don't make the appointment right away or if they don't make it, you know, don't call back. So, it's important to have a person usually, you know, it's ours. Or cosmetic care or surgical coordinator who does the follow up and tracks it on a sales spreadsheet. And now does certain, you know, touch points over, you know, two or three times after that visit, after two or three, you know, contacts. If they're not interested, you just. Say dead end, but, but it's important to do the follow up because sometimes people may not have un understood something correctly in the consultation, or they weren't clear about, you know, what, what, what's really involved in terms of follow up and, and recovery. So, by having someone follow up that might actually change the, the nature of their, of their opinion, and then they actually close on the deal. And they make the appointment and have the surgery. So, I think follow up is, is as important as you know, the actual consultation for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, what about the competition in your world? It's been. Fairly commoditized. I mean, the patients think that they can get Botox anywhere or they can get laser treatment anywhere. Do you deal with that? Or you're so, you know, you're so, branded that you don't have that issue. Like people go to, you just, they're going to pay what they, they pay whatever you want because they, because it's you. Do you have that issue where you're losing patience to the competition, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Not really. I mean, I think in New York they, you know, there obviously are, you know, the non-doctors who are doing these procedures in spas. But you know, I think it's so, busy overall and I think, you know, we also, you know, our, we, we don't have. A real cutthroat competition with be between dermatologists and plastic surgeons, or, you know, between dermatologists and dermatologists. We all get along really well. We, we talk to each other. You know, you've been in our meetings where it's multidisciplinary and our plastic surgeons, facial plastics, oculoplastics, and dermatologists, we're all buddies. We lecture together we do research together. I re do a lot of research on cosmetic procedures and laser procedures with plastic surgeons. Very well-known ones as well, and we all get along really well, so, and we refer to each other. So, I just had a re referral from a plastic surgeon today because someone had a bad procedure and asked me to evaluate them. And vice versa. And I'll refer, you know, to plastic surgeons for conditions I may not want to treat or I don't feel, you know, we have the right treatment, they need surgery. So, I know it's different, other parts of the country where, you know, there are turf battles like that. So, but you know, I think, you know, for the most part patients come to us and they have treatments that are appropriate. And we don't really lose them to non-physicians. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Good for you. And lastly, I wanted to ask you about your podcast. Are you still doing that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: We do it, you know, periodically. I just have been so, busy lately. I just haven't had a time with, you know, doing the videos and social media and tracking those things and lecturing. I was just in Hawaii, lecturing in Miami, going to Phoenix next week. Mm. So, it's just it's like you mentioned earlier, it's hard keeping track of everything. But you know, It's all fun. We still have a great time. What we're doing, it's, I don't consider it work. I, I'm always looking forward to getting to the office every day and we're really blessed to be in this industry where we have so, many new things happening and never becomes routine. You know, there are new things happening, whether it's in plastic surgery, dermatology, lasers, fillers, toxins. It never gets boring and that's really an amazing position to be in. So, we are very fortunate. Catherine Maley, MBA: But the nuance there is it doesn't get boring because you stay in the game. You are not just sitting in your office, you are everywhere. You know, you're still playing games. Yeah. Everywhere, everything and learning all the new technologies. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: And all at once. Catherine Maley, MBA: But but I mean, you're, you're, that's how you keep it interesting. You know, you're, you're really learning what is going to happen in the world. Like how do you see this playing out as an aesthetic patient? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Like, do you see it changing dramatically where we're not going to do surgery half as much as we used to, or how do you see this? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know with all due respect to my plastic surgery colleagues, we all know that that's coming. You know, that it's going to be less and less invasive over the next few years. And to the point where, you know, I don't think. People with extreme, you know, loose necks or jowls down to here you know, boobs down to here also are not going to need surgery. They're going to still need surgery. But for people who don't have as severe changes and because people are starting a lot younger to have these non-invasive preventive treatments, even we see kids. In their twenties are getting a little tiny wrinkle. Rico, they're come in for Botox. We call it rejuvenation. Yeah. Which is actually, you know, some people say, well, that's a, a little bit ridiculous. But it really isn't because we know muscle movements continue over time. So, those lines are going to get deeper and deeper. And eventually I've had patients come in and say they want to have Botox when they have ingrained, etched in. Lines in a frown area or horizontal forehead lines and you do Botox and it doesn't do anything because they're etched in. And there's no way, even by relaxing a muscle that, that, you know, that wrinkles going to go away, or those wrinkles are going to go away. So, they need to have laser surgery or, or regular surgery. So, by coming in earlier and earlier, they're going to need less and less invasive treatments later on. So, there'll be a few patients who need. Facelifts and brow lifts breast work, you know, that may continue to be the same case, but also even body contouring. Mm-hmm. We see it already, you know, there's less numbers of liposuction cases, and we see that in my own practice because we're doing noninvasive fat reduction, noninvasive skin tightening muscle toing, non-invasive muscle toing, cellulite treatments, so, there's less need for the invasive procedures. So, I think that's going to continue and it's going to get even more advanced and more effective with less and less downtime. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I mean, it's so, good for the consumer. Not so, good for the plastic surgeons probably down the road, but, mm-hmm. I've also heard a liposuction that's going to be done by robot, you know, robotic lipo. It's like, what? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Yeah. Well, that's, that's possible. Yeah. I may don't even need liposuction at all if we can take away fat. Well, that's a good point. One area which we're getting to now. With Nia, we can take 30% of the fat layer away in four treatments, which is more than any other technology out there. Only cause they, they combined with, you know, they two energy sources. So, it's getting there every day. So, it's more, more exciting and a lot more fun. But the plastic surgeons are never going to starve, you know? Yeah. They're going to be taken, you know, up with all these. Noninvasive procedures too. So, whereas their surgery may reduce in number, in number of procedures, they're going to be offering these noninvasive treatments to offset the lack of surgery if they're smart. Right. Which I think they are. And they're doing that already. So, I know that is the case Catherine Maley, MBA: for sure. So, we're going to wrap it up. Why don't you tell us something we don't know about you. Bruce Katz, MD: Something you don't know about me? Well, you know, I have I just had two twin grandsons. Oh. Excited about just a year ago. They're the loves of my life right now. Are they identical? Two little boys. Twin boys, fraternal twins. So, that's something people don't know, but you know, that's really exciting, and you know no one will be able to steal away my social media director. You know, why? Catherine Maley, MBA: Why? Bruce Katz, MD: Because she's my wife and she does a great job with our social media. She's a graphic designer and she does all the social media. So, that's something that people may not know. Catherine Maley, MBA: I say this all the time, marry "smart". If you, if you're going to be in business, Mary Smart, you look at that, push your wife to work and she stays in the practice. And who better represents you than your wife? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? She knows you definitely, she knows you what you like, what you don't like. That's such a great idea. Anytime you can get your wife to, to run the show. In the practice. Bruce Katz, MD: Absolutely. And she goes to all the meetings. Also, Catherine and Yeah. Does some videos and all our, you know, colleagues at the meetings know her. All the companies know her because they all follow her on our social media. We have the CEOs of major cosmetic companies, filler companies that follow her on social media because that's how impactful it is. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. You have something to talk about after 40 years of being married or whatever. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices? Bruce Katz, MD: Exactly. Right. Exactly right. Catherine Maley, MBA: I know your website is www.juvaskin.com. J u v a. And if somebody wanted to get ahold of you, how would they do that? Bruce Katz, MD: So, I'll give you, first of all, our Instagram handle is @juvaskinandlasercenter, Juva Skin and Laser Center, and my phone number is (212) 688-5882 Welcome to call anytime. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Katz has 50 lasers and devices. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Katz, you can reach out to his website at, www.JuvaSkin.com. A big thanks to Dr. Katz for sharing his experience on using 50 lasers and devices. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "50 Lasers and Devices — with Bruce Katz, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drbrucekatz #brucekatzmd #brucekatzdermatologist #manhattandermatologist | |||
| 700 – 1,000 Surgeries Per Year — with Gregory Chernoff, MD (Ep.202) | 22 Apr 2023 | 00:44:06 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to Dr. Chernoff performs 700 – 1000 surgeries per year. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "700 – 1000 Surgeries Per Year — with Gregory Chernoff, MD". Some surgeons have two locations usually about an hour apart. They do that to capture a bigger market share than they can with only one office. However, this week's podcast guest performs 700 – 1000 surgeries per year in his two practices located in two different states that are 2,200 miles apart. My latest Beauty and the Biz podcast guest was Dr. Greg Chernoff. He's a cosmetic surgeon in private practice in Santa Rosa, CA AND Indianapolis, IN. We talked about how he manages his time so he can do surgery every day in 2 different parts of the country AND sit on several medical, scientific, and editorial advisory boards, while maintaining his health and marriage. (Hint: He loves what he does and he invests in outside counsel). Dr. Chernoff also talked about the latest technologies to watch for that will revolutionize the aesthetic industry (Hint: Regenerative innovations). Visit Dr. Chernoff's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: 700 – 1000 Surgeries Per Year — with Gregory Chernoff, MD Catherine Maley, MD: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Chernoff performs 700 – 1000 surgeries per year. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, I'm really excited about today's guest because I've known him forever. It's Dr. Greg Chernoff who will be sharing how he performs 700 – 1000 surgeries per year. Now, he's a cosmetic surgeon in private practice in Santa Rosa, California, which is maybe an hour up from where I'm at now, and he performs 700 – 1000 surgeries per year. He's been in practice for over 30 years. He's authored several papers and studies from his extensive research, and he's given over 700 lectures and teaches his innovative techniques to surgeons all over the world. Now, he sits on several medical and scientific advisory as well as editorial boards, and he's a member of several medical societies. He also gives back to Survivors of Violence Foundation that helps men, women, and children who have injuries and scars as a result of violent acts, abuse, illness, or birth defects. Dr. Chernoff, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you. Gregory Chernoff, MD: It's a pleasure to be here. Catherine, as you mentioned, I've known you for a long time and your quality as well has been unwavering, so… Catherine Maley, MD: Thanks for that. I really appreciate it. Now, a lot of people don't know you. You came from Canada and I'm always fascinated with Canadian medicine because it's very different from our medicine down here. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? But you're more innovative. I think you're more bureaucratic, but almost more innovative as well. So, what brought you, how did you get here from Canada? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, I did my medical school in Canada. I did my residency in Canada, and then after residency you can do one-on-one training years called Fellowship. So, I, I initially came to Indianapolis and did a microvascular breast body fellowship. And then after that came to U C S F and did a facial plastic fellowship. I returned Indianapolis opened my practice there. And two years after that my, my fellowship director of Larry Schrock died too young at 58. Oh no. So, he had operated the day before he died, I was asked to come back to, to take care of his post-op patients. So, I came back with the intention of keeping his practice open so, that they'd have something to sell. I, I knew the patients, and so, most of them said, well, why don't you buy it? So, that was over 30 years ago. So, it's really, it's given me the, the privilege of doing what I love the most, and that's operating every day. Between Indianapolis and Santa Rosa, we do upwards of 750 to a thousand cases a year. So, it just gives us a great volume of, of nice people to take care of. In addition, 2020 5% of. My practice has stayed dedicated to research. We continue to be alpha, beta test sites for majority of the, of the laser energy companies in many of the cosmetic and drug companies. So, when we do studies, it gives us a great bell curve distribution of, of all the different skin types. Probably 40% of my practice in, in Indiana is African American, 30 to 40% in, in the North Bay would be Asian, Mediterranean, Hispanic. So, Just a nice bell curve of people to take care. So, how Catherine Maley, MD: do you, how do you manage a practice when you're there half the time and do you have like extenders who are keeping it going and keeping the money in with the non-surgical while you're somewhere else doing surgery and, and how, how are you managing that? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, you, you really couldn't do multiple locations first and foremost without a, without a business plan. And without financial advisors, the key being for whom you listen to. Because I think the, the, the biggest problem with most doctors is that most doctors think they're good business people, but they're not. And the, the more frightening part is they don't know what they don't know, right? So, we have a, we have a great business plan, second and second, and tied to that are, are great people around me. Julie has been my, my office manager and office nurse for 30 years in Indianapolis. Annette's been my operating room nurse for 30 years in Indie and, and in Santa Rosa. We have a, we have a, a tremendous lineup of people who, who really take good care of me. I take very good care of them as well as just like family. But I think that's the key is surrounding yourself with people who always have your back and, and in return you always have their back as. We're having that kind of longevity. Catherine Maley, MD: Honestly, most of the top practices I work with or know of, there's usually that, that continuity person there, that one who has been there from the, from the beginning through thick and thin, they know it inside and out, and the trust level is over the top. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: Yeah, definitely Julie. I always tease people at, when I give OC, I tell them from a business standpoint, the first thing that they need to do if they're starting is to find their Julie in their office. Julie for me has been the sister I never had, and I'm the brother she never wanted. Catherine Maley, MD: So, how much are your, I mean, I know you're doing crazy amounts of surgery is like, is that a good revenue stream for you to have both the surgical profit center for you, but then the non-surgical with you extend is that. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: No question because as, as part of your business plan, it has to be what, what will happen when you decide that you are, are ready for your exit strategy. And in, in this day and age patients you know, one step back, as you know, through the years that there's such a difference between taking good care of patients and just doing things to people. But patients these days in the aesthetic realm, they, they appreciate one stop shopping. So, our patients know that they can come to us if it's for a little mole that they want biopsied. If they have unwanted pigment, if they have if they want to improve the tone, quality, clarity of their skin, a above the, the, the shoulders if they have unwanted fat, cellulite, skin laxity, poor muscle tone below the below the neck as well. They like to know that that we offer. And it, it's really nice. Remember with, with all of these machines, there's always a gm Ford Chrysler. Nice. And so, having, having your story because again, it's all, it's all about what you portray in, in your book to patients. And so, having good reasons why you are using whatever you're using. But in the exit strategy, if you looked at our p and l's monthly, you know, surgery, you know, my patient coordinators keeping me in the operating room eight hours a day is definitely what, what secures paying the bills. But we haven't downed such since the non-surgical volume is really just in the, in the pure profitability. Standpoint. But, but both if, if run properly or are very strong profit centers to a practice. Catherine Maley, MD: You know, I'm very curious though, how do you handle the consultations because you're very streamlined and process oriented. You always were. And it still takes you to do these consults somehow, unless you don't have to do them. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Is somebody else doing them for you? Are you doing virtual? Are you just doing them quickly? Consults and surgery? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, having, having stars that are patient coordinators both in, in both of our practices. So, our, our system is really time tested. A patient contacts our office for information and it's our patient coordinators that give them the initial information. They, they bring the patient in first to meet with them. So, that we can find out definitively what a patient's goals are if they are a non-surgical candidate versus a surgical candidate. We do the computer imaging for them. They get educated not only in what they're seeking. My coordinators highlight my accolades, and then if we have if we know that a patient, because there's a lot of tire kick. Pardon the expression also that come in thinking that surgery might be neat, but they think a facelift should be $500. So, I, I, I don't need to, to spend my time with those patients. But if a patient is pre-qualified, no different these days than if you're. Buying a house many times, you can't even go and see a home unless you are pre-qualified. Mm-hmm. So, if you know that a patient is, is, is pre-qualified financially, emotionally, then they, then they meet me. So, I, I meet most patients now after they already have their deposit in for surgery. Patients who want to meet me before that we're fine with that. I think Covid was an excellent eyeopener to show us that many patients are happy doing, doing Zoom consultations. Mm-hmm. It saves them time as well, and in their process of deciding whom they want to take care of them. So, we really have the streamline now such that I meet our patients once, once we know they're, if not already on the schedule, if they're ready to commit. Catherine Maley, MD: I will add a caveat though. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? The reason you're able to do that is because you've got such a well-rounded and balanced website, you have positioned yourself as the expert. And I tell doctors this all the time. When you're at the meetings, make sure your person's there taking photos of you at the podium, in the hallway meeting. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Really well-known surgeons, you know that's pr, whatever you want to call it, pr, marketing, whatever. It, when I was on your website, all I could think of was he bothered to take the time to show how greedy is, but you're bragging in such a sophisticated, professional way, and that's how you do it. That's why I can, I'm sold on you before I've met you, and I can live off of a Zoom 15-minute console call. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? To, to just put icing on the cake. That's how you do it. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: You know, our best, our best source of referral is always another happy patient. Mm-hmm. And so, we, mm-hmm. We enlist happy patients to talk to perspective patients. That vote of confidence goes a long way. And really, you know, when I. When you and I first started at this, many of the things that we do now, we wouldn't have dreamt that we would've had to do. I employ a, a full-time social media graduate and you know, I, I employ the full-time photographers, full-time web people whose, whose jobs are, are, are never ending given the, the changes in Google formulas and whatnot. So, times are always changing and if you're not willing to change with them and spend the money to do that, then, then you'll get you'll get.
Catherine Maley, MD: So, going back and forth between Indianapolis and Santa Rosa. Not an easy feat because Santa Rosa is a lovely town, but it's outside of SFO. I mean, I, I, it's probably about an hour. Are you flying private by any chance? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: No, I'd I'm just I'm just a few hundred million short of affording 40. No, we've, we've stayed, we've stayed commercial. Okay. But it's all, it's all in the planning. I'm, I'm also blessed, you know, I think another key. To success. My, my wife Jill was with Roche for 15 years before we got married, but she really oversees the running of both practices. She, she is responsible for my schedule. All of our, you know, our, our schedule is mapped out during the, the end of the third quarter for the following year. Our flights. We're all booked. So, we typically fly into, I used to keep a car there, but it's actually cheaper now just to rent a car for the week. It's nice you get to drive vehicles. You might be interested in buying at later date. So, it's really, and we, and we know the timing as, as you and I know, if you if, if we land at non traffic times at SFO. I'm to my front door with, you know, within an hour. If you land at bad times, it's three hours. So, we, so, we know when to fly, when not to fly, and that's just, that's just, I've done it for 30 years. It's just part of life now and my, my way of preserving my health as well as I promised myself, I don't do any work on the plane. That's my time to read enjoyable or watch a movie. And that's some downtime where, where people can't get ahold. Catherine Maley, MD: Oh, that's so funny. The plane for me is my quiet time and that's where I do my best riding. Yes, exactly. Because I'm sitting still with nobody bugging me. Exactly. On that. Yeah. So, because you've been around a long time, just give me one big mistake that you really learned a lot from that others could avoid making. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: Not having a, and that, that's an easy, you know, fine, because you can break your practice down into it. It's a given, it's a given that we're here to take good care of patients, but we're also a business. Yeah. And, and if you don't run your practice as a, as a business, then you can, you can waste a lot of money and lose a lot of money. And so, my, my biggest mistake as, as I alluded to at the start, was thinking that I knew everything that I needed to know about the business of running a practice. And now, and now I, I have a business advisory board, if you will, comprised of, of CPAs, accountants, business people. And I have to write a pledge that I will listen to them. And many of the things that they advise me to do aren't what I want to do, but I, I listen to them and it turns out to be right. So, so, younger docs starting out really need to first define for themselves who are they? What do they want to practice? Do they want to be in an academic setting? Do they want to be in private practice? Do they want to be a solo practitioner? Do they want to be in. In a group do they want to stay exposed to research? Do they want to be just surgical or have a, a non-surgical limb, which then also involves expenditure in buying, you know, most of the machines that you look at buying or, or are all upwards about, you know, they're all like buying a nice car. They're all upwards of a hundred thousand dollars to. And you would, you have to also look at your return on, on, on investment with, with those. So, that was probably the biggest mistakes that I made in my first decade because when we finished, so, I was, you know, between fellowships and whatnot, I was, I was upwards of 300,000 in debt with student loans. And because there's such a delayed gratification, you, you really come out gung-ho thinking, I have to do everything. I have to do everything tomorrow. The first thing you need to do for tomorrow is start saving. Mm-hmm. And so, a, a, a proper business plan that keeps your, your expenditures as low as you can, while you can still you know, operate your practice how you want to, is really important. But, taking the time and, and, and young docs should do that through their residency as, as you become exposed to more. Things. And I think it's really important to go to all of the different academy meetings, that there's a, as you know, our, sadly our, our meeting industries in such dire need of consolidation. La last year I did a hundred hours of C M E talks. And, and, but there's, so, that means for, for people looking, there's, there's such tremendous information that's being offered at these meetings, both in the scientific limbs and the business limbs. So, that those things, companies like yours that, that are, that are so, valuable in, in guiding the way you've, you've watched so, many people do well, but you've watched so, many people not do. And so, you, you're a, you're really a, an encyclopedia of knowledge for someone who's looking to become successful as they start. So, but, but starting with a plan, starting with a budget and, and adhering to those I think are, are very important. Plans change as times change, but, but the essence of who of who, who a person is also shines through in their practice as. Catherine Maley, MD: Well, you have such a good vast perspective on this industry because you've been a surgeon in solo practice. Then you've had two locations, then you had, I think you even had a third location. Then you work with the vendors, you work with the medical societies. You're very involved in the industry. What would you say to surgeons who maybe are just stuck, like stuck in a rut or they're so, confused that they're like ready to give up, or that it is just not fun anymore? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Like any suggestions for how do you, how do you gain footing in this industry being the uber competitiveness and just all the advances in technology and so, How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: As, as you alluded to, the you know, all of the things I, I I'm humbled by, by what I've been able to accomplish in 30 years. But there are days that I say that even though that I still after 30 years love what I do, I realize that all I do is what I do. So, it's, it's an enormous time investment to be in solo practice, to also be involved in, in research. But if some, if someone's stuck you know, there, there are many docs. Just like me, who are always willing to talk to people you know, I, I was blessed and, and always being trained by people who, who believed in sharing their knowledge both medical and non-medical. So, anyone is always welcome to, to reach out to me with specific problems and, and we're always happy to help. People, and I think that's, talk to people who've been at it for a while. And be open. Be honest. Hang, hang your ego on the door, and be willing to, to admit what your shortcomings are and really go with what your strengths are. Most docs haven't reached the point of, of finishing a residency start. Go into, you know, looking into how they want to practice. If, if they haven't been in the higher percentages of, of IQs and, and, and willingness to work hard. But towards the end of education, I think that's when a lot of people hit a wall and they get very discouraged because they do have, they do have choices you know about which, which road. And you may choose a road to go down and I that, I did that a few times too. You may choose a road to go down and, and realize that that's not. Right avenue for you. It's okay to change t and to change course midstream. I think some of the most miserable pe people that I've met in my life are people that are doing things every day that they don't like to do. Sure. Life's too short to live that way. If, if, if you realize that you're not doing something that you have a passion for, that you, because patients will pick up on that as well. It's still my, my nicest compliment every day is when patients say, gosh, by talking to you, we can tell that you still really love what you do. Mm-hmm. And I, I think that makes the consultation very genuine as well. Catherine Maley, MD: Would you have any advice for somebody who's like, let's say they, they like research in academia, but now they're ready to make some money, so, now they want to go out into the regular world. Do they go solo? Do they try to buy in with, you know, with somebody else's practice? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Or, you know, that new trend now is all this private equity going on? Do any thoughts on any thoughts on where we're heading here as a solo surgeon? Where are you going to go with this? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: Yeah. Th those are all, all excellent questions. And I think you know, most, most physician multi-doctor practices that have been successful are usually doctors that started together. I think most, I think most doctors, if they're not in an academic setting, most doctors would like to be out on their own. Mm-hmm. And so, if a person has the inkling that they want to be out on their own, then they should do what I did. And that's Go to a bank, take out a loan. Mm-hmm. And start, you know, and, and start on your own. And, you know, there are, there are always you know, older guys like me who are looking for new associates. Mm-hmm. I think the, the formulas, the formulas have changed for doctors looking for associates. I think most, most docs who bring on an associate now would require a young doc to take out a loan, do a buy-in right away, away, because we've, there's been many stories of, of young docs coming into practices only to, to abscond with patient lists and. You know, and, and open up, down, down the block. I think that's one thing that's, that's a across the country, non-competition clauses are weakening. In, in many states, you'll see more, more doctors protecting their established practices by having younger docs buy into them and then, and then earn, you know, earn their, their buy-ins. Al also then over, over time. Catherine Maley, MD: But then should there be a honeymoon period before you have a buy-in to make sure you have shared values and vision? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think a lot of that is built, a lot of that is built into, you know, the, the, the early, the early contracts. I think, I think younger docs need to also appreciate, though it's, it's not easy to start your own practice. Patients these days with the internet, they have many choices about where they, about where they can, they can go. So, there's benefits. To younger docs in joining established practices. I think they, they can be mentored into excellence that, that way there's benefit also, and by, by older docs bringing in younger docs to carry, to pick up the baton. The, the, there's a lot of private equity firms. I think, you know, this really started in the dermatology professional. Where dermatology practice started getting bought up. The doctor was offered a certain percentage in cash, but then the ability of putting some, keeping some equity in the company and for the larger equity company to buy up again, so, to see some profit off of that. As well. So, those, there's a lot of those formulas around, but I mean, those, those equity companies are looking for more established practices that would, you know, it, it wouldn't be, you know, looking for a, for a, a multiple of, of, of, of earnings. So, you have to have a track record before a private equity company would, would really consider you in that regard. And as part of that, you have to have clean. You can't have, you can't be running your practice as your own private bank account. As well. You have to show profitability for equity companies to be interested. But I think young and that, that's, that's also a, a positive for young people coming out of training is that they have many options that they can know, that they can look at. Think you also have to if you're going to. Be in the field of aesthetics. Look at what your primary specialty is, and you have to decide, am I going to be an aesthetic doctor, non-insurance base, or am I going to keep a certain, you know, a, a certain percentage of my practice in the insurance area? Which, which, which can always act as a, a backup if, if times, if, if the economy worsens. Although I think this is interesting. You know, before Covid I would've been booked on average, you know, eight weeks in advance. I'm, I'm booked here. We, here we are in coming up in April and I'm booked through September, October for many things. So, I think with, even when times get bad, people will always spend money on themselves, and that's what we're seeing with Covid. Maybe people aren't traveling as much, so, they're spending more on themselves or their house. Catherine Maley, MD: Oh, I think, I think cosmetic rejuvenation has become a way of life now. The stigma is almost gone. Social media helped that a lot. Social media also hurts it, like everything. There's a 50 50 to it, but I just think no problem with the demand here. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? My problem with insurance is it's hard to dabble in it when everybody else. Eating, sleeping and drinking cosmetic, and then you're doing some insurance. And the, and the cosmetic is kind of a hobby. It can't be in today's world, it's just too competitive. And I think you need pretty extreme focus on something. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? But I want to talk about that because, Normally in today's world, I say, you know what? Get really good at a few things. Don't try to be everything to everybody but somebody like you who's so, into research and you love the new technologies you offer. Talk about an umbrella, like you talk about a one-stop shop. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Like you offer everything and all the lasers and the injectables. And you're from Canada and you have all the latest like, you know, everything that's happening, like coming up with fillers and non-surgical. How do. Do you think it's a good strategy to provide everything for everyone, or is that difficult to manage? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? What's your feeling on that? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: If you're, that's an excellent question. If you, if you have the desire to, and you can break down surgically and non-surgically, if you have the desire to be head to toe surgically, you have to have the appropriate training. Certainly. And you have to, I think most surgeons know what they do best. Mm-hmm. And I that, that's a better you know, Operate and do the operations that you know you're good at because it only takes, it only takes one unhappy patient. Mm-hmm. I always, I always tease young docs and, and tell them, since most people still don't want folks to know that they've had anything done. Right. If you make one person happy, they may tell two or three of their friends, but if you make one person unhappy, they have the potential with one bad review of telling millions of. So, you really, you know, stick to, stick to surgically what you do best. Stick to, you know, offer non-surgically, you know what because you can go to all the, the academy and, and, and, and you have lists as well of what you know are the most popular nonsurgical therapies that are people are looking for. I think first and foremost, and this was advice that was given to me as well in starting, is first pick where you want to live. Mm-hmm. Cause if you go, if you go someplace that you know you want to live, that you're happy living, number one. And then number two, if you do good work and you're nice to people, you'll be busy no matter where you go. And you'll be happy because you're living where you want to live, you're doing what you enjoy doing. And, and still to this day, the most gratifying part for me every day is watching how the smallest changes for a patient have such a dramatic effect on self-esteem. Mm-hmm. That's really the, the, the gratitude that our patients display to us every day by just the, the smallest of changes that is so, so, gratifying. You know, once you can make a list for yourself of what you want to offer. You can really map that out in a way that can also become profitable. Catherine Maley, MD: You mentioned patients and what's your take on how, how different is the patient demand now than it used to be? And how have you molded your consultations to that? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think we, we as aesthetic providers have to really show a tremendous amount of tolerance these days because the internet has become such a double-edged sword. Every day I meet patients who've read an article and they know more than I do after 30 years now. And so, it's always, you always have to listen. The other, the other thing that that more docs need to practice at getting better at is listen. And not talking it it's still our job to listen to a patient as it relates to what has brought them through your door. Then it's our job to give them information relating to what it is that brought them through the door in a manner such that they don't think that you're trying to sell them right. Any, sell them anything. And, and that that's the, the artistry that's involved in, in the consultation process as well is if, if a patient really senses that you're engaged with them. Once you walk in that room or if you're on the zoom that, that they have your, your, your total attention and that you're really engaged in, in the problem for which they're seeking your, your help. They'll get the sense that you really want to help them and not just do things to them, but it is very, you know, I walked into one of, one of my consults to a, a 60'ish year young lady, and she was holding two papers and, and she said to me, just like this, I want to make sure that you're going to do my facelift just like this. Great. And so, it would've been, it would've been easy for me to, to tell her what I was really thinking. Yeah. But again, I, I, I helped her see how that, that really probably wasn't the best tack for her to, to take upon first meeting her surgeon. Catherine Maley, MD: They have gotten very demanding. They're very educated, they're very demanding. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? And you know what I've learned as a, as a consultant, I say to the doctor, you've got to decide who you are and get grounded in your values and your own vision. Because when the public's coming at you from every which way you can try to acquiesce to that or you can say, no, no, no. Here's how we do it. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Here, here, here's what I'm comfortable with. And then let the rest go. Because dealing with the public is exhausting, isn't it? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, to that lady, I took my current textbook on facelifts is four is four three that you wrote the book on page volumes. And I, I said, wait, right here, I'll be right back. So, I went and I got the textbook and I brought it in and I put it on her lap and I said, we're going to do this differently now. We're going to do your facelift with you awake. I'm going to talk you through it and you're going to do your own surgery. And so, her mouth o opened and he thought about it and she said, "I get your point". Right people. It's so, I, I, I think if you, you know, pa patients have to know that they're coming to see you because you, you are the expert. You are the person who will take good care of them. You'll listen to them. But there comes a point where you, where you have to draw the line in the center. You wouldn't say to your cardiac surgeon who's just said you needed quadruple bypass, just do three minor arteries or two minorities and I'll be fine. Catherine Maley, MD: So, how are you in today's world with marketing? Like you were always a really good marketer before, but you did it usually through patient education then I really, I mean, this was many decades. You were doing the patient education events before everyone else was, and I thought that's how to do it. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Like you don't have to sell anything to anybody. People want to look good, help them understand what it takes for them to look their best. It's, it's a no-brainer, but how much of your practice nowadays is marketing versus just good old patients coming back for more and referring their friends? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think both, both are, both are still equally important, you know? Mm-hmm. You, you and I could sit down and, and, and show a beautiful equation on the value of one happy patient. Mm-hmm. Cause one happy patient. One patient may start coming in, doing fillers, doing Botox. That will transcend then to maybe some laser work for pigment fine lines. Then as time goes on, they, they see that the gravitational diss. That they are, that they are now seeing, as well as their volume loss, their loss of elasticity is, is now warranting surgery. So, they may start with doing their eyes, their brows, their liposuction, whatever, they're happy, then they tell a friend or two, then they're ready for something else. So, so, one happy patient when you meet them is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in, in in the end. So, protecting that. Is, is very important. So, there's that aspect of, of marketing through meticulous results. Mm-hmm. And then there's, then there's the dollars that you never like spending. We still do public. I think public seminars have been very, Valuable over the years because you can, you can extend information in a, in a very non-intrusive, non-threatening way to, to people. And, and you can waste a lot of money on, on ads you know, on print ads. The internet is still a very valuable resource that if you, if you know how to play the, you know, the different equation game It all adds up, but, but you really, I think to be successful, you really have to do it all. You, you can't just, you can't just focus on, on one avenue of, of, of marketing. And, but, but again, my, my greatest recommendation to anyone is to hire someone like you because that's what you, you know, that's what you are there for is to, is to educate and, and to help people be a. Catherine Maley, MD: Well, and not to waste so, much money. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Yeah, I, it's shocking that they won't pay for my services yet. They'll give it to some PR company that works, what, five grand a month for eight months and you got what from it? You got something in Toledo, Ohio, like some kind of like that, a magazine nobody reads. And I think, what the heck? You know, that's. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? I just, I'm on, I'm into marketing in today's world. Smart marketing, you know? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: Okay. Because I've, I've wasted a lot of money on companies that grossly overpromised and even worse, under delivered. And so, you, you, you really have to, there's so, many, as, you know, shysters out there who. You know who, who talk, talk a good story, but, but you know, provide very little inner turn. Catherine Maley, MD: Yeah. Well, you're really up on the technology because you're on all those advisory boards and you're out there in the world like what's happening. Because half of us, remember when I, when we first started, you surgeons wouldn't even dream of injecting Botox. Like you were like, are you kidding me? I am a surgeon. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? And then you really came around full circle and said, no, no, I need to grab that patient. You know, so, now I do injectables as well as surgery, but like I know you're very involved in regenerative medicine. Yes. So, what's coming down the pike? Like, what else do we need to look good and feel great? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think we're seeing more; you know, we're seeing more people. I'm really seeing two, two distinct new peaks. In, in my practice. We're seeing younger people. A lot of the, you know, the, the generation Z patients, the generation X patients coming in c as well. With healthcare being what it is, I'm seeing many more 70, 80, 90-year-old patients coming in. With sometimes letters from their family doctor saying, don't discriminate against this patient because of their chronological age. They're the biological age of someone much younger. And these elderly folks come in saying, you know, I don't feel my chronological age, but yet the person that I've seen in the mirror doesn't match how good I feel in my heart. So, if you have a safe way of helping me, I'm really interested. So, both of these subsets come. Seeking what I refer to as preventative aesthetics. Mm-hmm. As compared to corrective aesthetics. Remember the, the three signs of aging. The only reason that anyone comes to someone like me is, is three reasons. Number one is the gravitational dissent of their muscles, both above the. Above the shoulders and below the shoulders. And for gravitational dissent, there're really no surgical options at a point for which the patient, you'll do the things for them and they'll go, wow. The second reason they come to us, it's all these non-surgical reasons, volume loss. So, all of us lose fat in our faces in the mid-face. Lower, lower third, and this is where the injectable fillers are. Fat transfer. There's, there's nothing. And then the third sign of aging is the loss of tone, quality, clarity of skin. And this too is where, where many of the non-surgical treatments, the fractionated CO2 systems, the needle rf treatments that they've never been better, but the whole field for, for 30 years, we've been involved in, in the fields of cellular medicine, regenerative and stem cell therapies, medicines is going to change so, much in the next decade. The whole field we, we've been involved very highly in, in the field. Called exosomes. Exosomes are the tiny little articles that all of our cells communicate with. And they're packed with growth factors just as your own p r P is, but your own p r p is your age, whereas a memal stem cell exosome is, is very robust with growth factors. And so, there's the therapeutic side of exosomes. They can improve the tone, quality, clarity of skin. They have such a tremendous, because they're loaded with, with regenerative and healing factors. They can help us in wound care and scar therapy. But the whole field of biogenetics and epigenetics we, we know what genes now are responsible for what features in in the body. Exosome Diagnostics. There'll come a day where you and I can spit in a cup or pee a cup, and based upon the exosomes that our own body is secreting, we'll be able to detect disease states before the first cells even hit an organ. And then exosome therapeutics will be able to load at your own exosomes with disease fighting, fighting drugs will, you know, disease states like melasma like hypopigmented disorders will have very specific treatments coming up from these that are personalized based upon your own. Your own gene. So, the whole field of gene therapy isn't that far away. There're some great companies we work a lot with some companies at Purdue at Stanford, that, that are involved in, in innovative genetic therapy so, that the field is so, exciting and I really envy people that will be around for. 20 to 50 more years because they'll be doing very different things. Not even today. I, I do very little how I did things 30 years ago, right? And, and, and very little of what I did even 15 years ago, both surgically and non-surgically. Mm-hmm. All geared to give better results, to have healing times. Quicker for patients as well. So, the technological advancements that we've seen since I started, and it'll continue to see will really be jaw dropping for, for providers and for patients alike. Catherine Maley, MD: Well, I've been using every technology that they had introduced because I'm going to say, I'm going to fight this aging process forever for as long as I live. How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? It's why I'm in this industry, although I should probably be more, more interested in the genetic stuff, you know, because I, I don't think, I don't know if I have great genes, but it'd be nice to, you know, I. I already feel really good like everyone else; I feel great. I can't believe I'm the age I am and I don't want to, How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: You and I are both 90 and look how good people. Catherine Maley, MD: That's right. And so, if you could hurry up and research a little faster, we can get to one 20 looking good. So, what is driving you, where do you get this motivation? Because I'm pretty sure you're not sleeping a lot. When you're doing 700 sur, like a thousand surgeries a year, what the heck? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: What, what's, and I, I really say this from the bottom of my heart. A any my mother was a high school teacher who, who really believed her, her favorite saying to my brother and I was, don't, don't, don't settle for mediocre because there's, there's mediocre all around us. And so, I've always, I've always been driven to, to be my best. And that that really hasn't changed. And it really, but like I said, I, to this day, I genuinely, without hesitation or reservation love what I do every day. Catherine Maley, MD: Ah, that's so, nice. Now tell us something we don't know about you? How does this relate to you performing 700 – 1000 surgeries per year? Gregory Chernoff, MD: Cooking is still my hobby. And so, that's the, what's your specialty? You know, I, with our, with our foundation for survivors of violence, my wife and I put on two charity barbecues. Last year we cooked for 250 people in our backyard. So, that's still, holy cow. Still, still a hobby. I still play. I used to play hockey. My arthritis doesn't let me. I still love golfing and, and other sports as well. So, there, there's, there's no end to doing things like that in spare. Catherine Maley, MD: Well, you're probably still cleaning up after that barbecue. Dear Lord, that's a lot of people in your backyard, so, alright. If some, if somebody wanted to reach out to you, what would be the best way? I know your website is called www.ChernoffCosmeticSurgery.com. Is there any way they can or, or, or just www.DrChernoff.com? Gregory Chernoff, MD: They can also reach me on my email. Just Greg@DrChernoff.com, Greg@DrChernoff.com. And I'm happy to communicate and share, share anything that I've learned over the years. Catherine Maley, MD: Oh, thank you so, much Dr. Chernoff. I really appreciate it. I'm glad we could catch up. Hopefully I'll see you at a meeting coming up soon and that'll do it for us today. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to attain 700 – 1000 surgeries per year. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Chernoff, you can reach out to his website at, www.ChernoffCosmeticSurgery.com. A big thanks to Dr. Chernoff for sharing his wisdom on how he performs 700 – 1000 surgeries per year. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "700 – 1000 Surgeries Per Year — with Gregory Chernoff, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drchernoff #1000surgeriesperyear #gregchernoffmd #santarosaplasticsurgeon | |||
| Insights From Grant Stevens, MD (Ep.201) | 14 Apr 2023 | 01:13:05 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and insights from Grant Stevens, MD. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD". Dr. Grant Stevens is the who's-who of plastic surgeons and one of the most trusted voices in beauty, and will have lots of insights to share. He's a board-certified plastic surgeon who is the founder and medical director of Marina Plastic Surgery by Athenix and Marina Med Spa in Marina Del Rey, California. Not only is he the past president of The Aesthetic Society, Dr. Grant Stevens also actively speaks, writes, researches, teaches, consults and participates with national and international medical societies, journals, hospitals, universities, industry, pharma, PR outlets and even government. This week's Beauty and Biz Podcast is my interview with Grant Stevens, MD where we talked about:
You may need to listen to this Beauty and the Biz episode several times since it's packed with pearls on how to market, scale and exit a cosmetic practice. You'll hear how differently Dr. Grant Stevens thinks about business, marketing and the plastic surgery industry. Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Insights From Grant Stevens, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and insights from Grant Stevens, MD. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. I am absolutely thrilled with this episode because I have Dr. Grant Stevens, who will be sharing his insights. Now, he's a board-certified plastic surgeon, who is the founder and medical director of Marina Plastic Surgery and The Institute, a medical spa in Marina Delray, California. Now, he's also a medical director of Orange Twist Brands, offering multi-location non and minimally invasive aesthetic treatments, as well as chairman of the USC Marina Aesthetic Surgery Fellowship and the director of the USC Division of Aesthetic Surgery. Now, Dr. Grant Stevens is the "who's who" of plastic surgeons and one of the most trusted voices in beauty and who will be sharing his insights. He has the longest CV I have ever seen because he actively speaks, writes researches, teaches consults, and participates with national and international medical societies, journals, hospitals, universities, industries, pharma, PR outlets, and even government. Actually, I had Dr. Grant Stevens on my podcast right as the pandemic was... It had kicked in, but now they sent everyone home. So, I was able to catch him for a minute on the podcast and a lot has happened. That was several years ago. So, we're going to hear what's new and his other industry insights. So, Dr. Grant Stevens, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It, is an absolute pleasure to have you back and to share your insights. Grant Stevens, MD: Thank you very much, Catherine. I really wish my mother had been here again. Once again listening to that introduction. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's very well, I'll say, well, it was really difficult to condense it because you have been around. Wow. Good for you. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful career. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let me ask you this because today I did a lot of research on you and I see a lot of things have changed. So, let's just start with your practice. When I knew you, you had a very, you know, healthy, busy practice and you had quite a few people. So, tell me what is your practice like today and where do you fit into that? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, thank you very much. And hello to everybody. First of all, my practice is in Marina del Ray. It's Marina plastic surgery in the Marina med Spa, and it's been there for about 33 years and we've enjoyed a wonderful time. And we have a fellowship and aesthetic surgery fellowship that's gone on for over 20 years, actually in conjunction with U S C and also Jay Calvert and the Rocks Institute. So, it's the Marina Rocks USSC Fellowship, which we're right now in the process of changing to the Los Angeles Aesthetic Surgery Fellowship because we're incorporating more of the LA based surgeons. And you asked about what I'm doing and what my role. And some people mistakenly think I've retired. I certainly have not retired. I'm working as hard or harder than ever, but I actually am not doing surgery. And you mentioned orange twist. We are so there's orange twist is another endeavor, and that's a number of med spas. By the end of this year, we should probably be up to 30. We're looking all around the country, building and acquiring. And that's all non-surgical medical aesthetics and it's called Orange Twist. However, the most exciting news I can share with you is that a company out of Texas called Lattice Work Capital, which has been around for 25 years, doing various rollups and other consolidations in the medical business, from veterinary to ophthalmology, to dental all sorts of different subspecialties. They have 25 years' experience. And they came to me and asked me to be on the board. Of their aesthetic rollup. And this is a couple year or a little over a year ago. And with that in mind, I looked at some of the opportunities because I was working very hard with engaged technology and some other things that will come up a little later today. And I decided that I would go ahead and go and partner with them. And with that in mind they, they called the aesthetic portion of their business. They called it a phoenix, although I think by the time this airs, it will probably be called something else. And it's through lattice where capital and we are acquiring other top flight plastic surgery practices and around the country and only going for the very best and providing a fantastic patient. An employee experience in the field of aesthetic exposed surgical and non-surgical. And as a board member of that company, and I always kid people, I say I sold my practice to myself because I took back a lot of equity and I really want to build a, the number one national brand in the country of aesthetic plastic surgeons. So, Marina plastic surgery, alive and well. The senior surgeon there is Dr. Justin Perez. All of the employees are still there. Everything that you remember is still there. And in fact, I'm swinging by there tomorrow. I'm down here right now in Manhattan Beach, and I'll be there at the office tomorrow. Check on things and see everybody. I'm actually going to get a little dify in my forehead. Wrinkles, you can see I need it. And then I probably have a Cyan laser in a couple days BL and Halo. So, I'm still very much involved and I'm still a consumer of the product. Catherine Maley, MBA: You're still drinking the Kool-Aid. I knew there was a shift on your website because on your website you very strategically marketed him, Dr. Perez as the medical director and you were after him as the founder. And I thought interesting, because you're transitioning, you're keeping that credibility because he needs your credibility. He can't stand on his own at the moment, I don't think he's much younger. I mean, is that, is the goal though, for you to walk away and, and have him take it? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah, well, certainly Dr. Perez could do whatever he wants to do. He trained at UT Southwestern. He was my fellow for a whole year in the number one aesthetics fellowship in the country. He then stayed with me and worked alongside of me for a couple years, and now he's the director and running Marina plastic surgery. And, and I assure you that he could do it on his own. However, we are great friends and colleagues and we share, and obviously I have a little experience. I've walked the path a little longer than he has, and we have a great time. Hey, let me share with you. He is going to do my eyelids this time. Oh my God. He's going to be my surgeon. Not only is he injecting me and doing my laser this week, but this summer is going to tidy up my eyelid. So, I trust him as my surgeon and I could go to anybody obviously, but he's so, and he's such a great guy. He's running that, that office within the whole Phoenix structure. But like I said, it may well not be called a Phoenix by the time you air this program. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, lately on the podcast, that's all we've been talking about is private equity and plastic surgery. So, just to be clear, because it sounds to me from what I, the little bit I do know every deal is different. It depends on how much you want to give up, how much the, the business people want to do. So, for typically you're going for the economies of scale for one thing, right? You're trying to do group discounting or group special pricing. Is that true or is that one of the objectives? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Are you talking about the acquire or the seller? Catherine Maley, MBA: The business side, the business people who are going to take it, the private equity people, is their goal to roll you up so they have stronger buying power. So, now you decrease your, like, hard costs. Is that one of the objectives? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, that, yeah, that, that is one of them, but that's not the main objective because what's the main objective? There are plenty of buying groups. It's, it's the efficiencies, first of all, the back-office efficiencies the running of the office, so all the support and of the office, the marketing, the HR, the employee relations and so forth, and their experience. Like I mentioned, the company I'm with, with Gladys work, they have 25 years of successful rollups. One of my concerns, and this will come out at the Aesthetic Society meeting at Hot Topics, which may have already happened by the time you play this, but. I actually looked at 13 different groups, and I know there's a few more. And there will not be 13 groups in a couple years, most of them will fail. Catherine Maley, MBA: And why is that? Because I can see, but just from my, my looking out, you know, outside looking in, there's so many variables involved, so many egos, so many pieces to that thing. And I don't know how you're controlling it when it's in different locations, different people. Who has the decision making? Who doesn't? That, that was, that's my take. Like why wouldn't they make it? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, first of all, as I mentioned, this is not a new phenomenon. This has been going on for 25 years with other subspecialties. So, if we look back and we study what's happened in previous verticals, in previous specialties, and we study what's happened, Then you ask why do they or why will this fail? And, and it won't fail entirely. There'll be successes and there'll be cannibalization. Some will be bought by others at different valuations. But there will be some people that pay too much. There'll be some that can't deliver what they say they're going to deliver. There will be early retirements because people will see the money and they'll retire and, and, and the, the revenue stream will evaporate. There'll be a number of reasons why they don't pan out and deliver what they're promising. I hope they're all successful. I'm not trying to be heavy downer here, but it can't possibly be 13 different rollups. And in fact, I'm told there's a couple more coming down the pipes, which doesn't surprise me because private equity wants to get in this because they've made tons of. On other verticals. When I say a vertical like dentistry or pediatric dentistry or cardiology and so forth, they're veterinary, as I mentioned, renal dialysis centers and so forth. And I've studied, I went back and studied the previous models and looked at and interviewed people. I interviewed a couple pediatric dentists who did a three-time recapitalization and their final out was a 14 x. They had a wonderful exit, foreign excess of the cash they had, and that would be one of the best models I saw. Catherine Maley, MBA: But, but why has nobody ever done plastic surgery until now? My thought, is it insurance versus cosmetic? I haven't heard of this until a couple years ago now. It seems very popular. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Okay, so let me go back. It's funny you say that. I attempted a roll up in 1998 with 31. With 31 practices and I took it to Wall Street. We went public and it was called the Plastic Surgery Company. It was 1999. Good for you. How, what happened? And we had 31 practices and more than 31 physicians. But I learned the hard way that managing plastic surgeons was much tougher than herding cats. As Harvey Zim used to say. It was very difficult. And as I said, we could give a key to a burning building with the plastic surgeons in the building and say, that's the door. Here's the key. Let yourself out and save your life. And they would argue with you that it's not the right door, not the right key, and so forth. But what we didn't have was private equity. Equity, and we didn't have the knowledge, the backend knowledge. And that's exactly what's going to happen to some of these other groups. I learned the hard way. Mm-hmm. We survived and did fine. Dennis Connan and I did it. And you know, Dennis from the industry and we learned a lot. And I said to Dennis at the time, if I ever come to you and say I want to manage plastic surgeons again and do a roll up, I want you to shoot me. Well, then I call him and I say, you're never going to believe what I'm about to do. But it's totally different. It's totally different now because the physicians are giving up control of their practice, and that's a key thing they didn't with the previous one. And that's good and bad, but they will follow the directions of the, of the parent company. In some of the programs, they have more control over others. Right. I think they're going to learn very quickly that that's probably not a great idea. PLA surgeons are independent, physicians are independent, plastic surgeons are very independent. Mm-hmm. And they're tough to manage. Mm-hmm. But again, Catherine, as I mentioned, this has been done many, many times before, successfully in other fields. And I think what we're seeing here is now the interest in non-surgicals, especially captivates a lot of money people and private equity and, and people want to get on board the aesthetic boat if you will, or train because it's growing at an exponential rate. And I don't blame them. I don't, that's why I'm on board. I mean, that's why I rolled a lot of my value into equity. Mm-hmm. And why I encourage my colleagues to give it a look. We're, we're going to be talking about it at the hot topics section of the Aesthetic Society meeting and comparing in contrasting some of the models. And there's not one model that fits everybody's right. There can be many models, depending on the age of the doctors, how many doctors there are what their goals are, you know, what their tolerance is for having people manage them or their staff. There's just so many variables, and I hope they're all successful. Catherine Maley, MBA: Because one, you, you need commitment though. You, you need them to stay put, right? Like, like for five years at least to make it work. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, so, okay. So, they're men. As I mentioned, every time you ask me a question, there's going to be a variation of the answers. Yeah, for sure. Some of the models are three years. Some of them go out to five, some go out to seven or infinity actually. Mm-hmm. But if you leave in less than three years in general, you're going to forfeit something in the way of e or more. So, there's not one size of fits all. So, if you, there's as many models as there are companies Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. If you were to talk to a surgeon, like the biggest benefit for a surgeon to roll up with this, with a, with a private equity firm, what is it? Is it to let go of the admin part of their practice and just do surgery? What's their benefit? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: It entirely depends on the age of the surgeon, what their practice is like now, and what they want out of their practice and their life. It's, there's not one size of fits all. Once again, if you're a young surgeon, it might be effective practice management and professionalism and branding and marketing and taking the headaches of running a business out of their hands, allowing them to do what they're best at, which is surgery. That's one. If you're a senior surgeon in your final third of your life, it allows you to monetize all the work you've done and actually get a healthy multiple that you're not going to get anywhere else. Mm-hmm. Certainly, have to stay around a while. And the middle, sort of a blend of both. So, it's not one size fits all. And when people say to you, they have the answer, they know, trust me, they don't. There's many, many scenarios here and there are many ways we can actually adjust it for the needs of the younger. I always talk the first, third, second, third, third, third of their practice. Mm-hmm. And it can be, and they can make more money, both even for practice efficiency on a day-to-day basis, as well as have a program extra strategy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. The one, the two things I was wondering about with these groups who pays for the patient attraction, does it now become the, the business side of that to, to do all the marketing for you? Or a lot of the groups, they still say to the practice, no, you still do what you do. You still build your practice market the way you've always done it. But now doesn't it have to be co-branded? You know, like how, how do you divvy up this marketing part? Like where are these patients coming from? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Again, Catherine, once again, same answer. It's as different as there are different practice model. Some are centralized entirely and they only do a central brand. Some allow the practices to exert their influence. Like for instance, marina plastic surgery is still marina plastic surgery. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's how I noticed this. It said marina plastic surgery by a phoenix. Right. An old, interesting. Yeah. So, you are full branded a little. It's little though. It's subtle, right? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: It's co-branding and eventually as we get bigger, we'll probably have a national brand, but we're still allowing people to have their own local brand. Mm-hmm. And to the extent people want to do their own unique marketing, that's fine. But one of the values of this is we share best practices. Mm-hmm. So, if somebody in another locale who's part of it shows us what they're. And they're involved in, say, patient financing with patient Fi or subscription services with, with dax, I mean, excuse me, with Privy. And they're doing great. They will share that because now you have partners coming together on quarterly meetings and sharing best practices is nobody can have all the answers. This allows sharing of the best practices and then incorporating that around the country and maximizing the return and having partners and learning from one another, not just surgical technique, but in this case business management, marketing, and all the various other parts that are outside of the OR. All right now practices or some models. Take all that off the. Some, some just come in and they just run it and then the doctor goes to work and does surgery and so forth. That's not what I'm doing. It's not what we're doing, and that it's not what most are doing. And most plastic surgeons don't want that kind of model. But there are some that are that way. I can tell you I looked at them. Mm-hmm. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, what would be your advice then? Choose carefully, you know? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Again, it would be, it would depend on the age of the surgeon. Mm-hmm. Well, private equity's not interested in hiring a young surgeon just fresh out, unless they're in an established practice. I would, I would let, let me talk to the people that understand the second, third, or third-third of their practice. Yeah. Yeah. Look carefully. But in my mind, the biggest mistakes people are making, and we're going to talk about this, is that they're, They're falsely thinking that all the management schemes are equal and that somehow that they all be successful. Mm-hmm. And I don't understand how they can think that when you study the other subspecialists, the other verticals, if you one studies veterinary stuff, or derm or dentistry as I mentioned these other, and you study what happened 10, 15, 20 years ago. Mm-hmm. You see that a lot of people got burned. However, some did not. And the ones that did not have the best management ches, they have the best, the, the best business people and they partner with the physicians, be they veterinarians or dentists or whatever they are. And learning from the past helps the people now and in the future. Right. I mean, why would you repeat something that failed? And that's what I see. I see a lot of naive plastic surgeons that I feel sorry for. They're just going for either the highest multiple, and they don't understand that that's not really the big strategy here. Because in a year or two, they're going to be out on the street or they're going to, the whole thing will be, well, what will happen, it'll be acquired. We'll be re-roll up at a much lower multiple. Hmm. I just would be very cautious, be very thoughtful, be very analytical. The other thing is you don't need to be paying these bankers so much. I see these guys hire all these bankers, which I mean, it makes sense to have one, but they're paying way too much for them. I don't know. The bankers hate me for saying this. And I have the bankers on my program and they're my friends. But some of the plastic surgeons are getting gouged by bankers. Sorry, bank. Catherine Maley, MBA: For the surgeons, are they looking for predictable revenue streams? What would make the business people want to take over a practice? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? What are they looking for? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: They're looking for that delta. They want to. Pay the surgeon. They want that EBITDA and they want to drop the revenue, drop the expenses, and raise the revenue. And that delta is what they're looking for. They want to run more efficiently. It's, it's an old model. It's not new. This is not new. This is ancient. They're coming in with economies of scale that you mentioned on acquisition of product, but way more than economy of scale and product. It's running the business like a business. Right. You know, I started that whole thing called the business of plastic surgery years ago. And you've actually been involved in that also. And I remember when I first gave a talk called Staying ahead of the competition, I was roundly booed and so forth. Because I said, you're all business people. Then they disagreed. I said, yeah, you are. You're just bad business people and profit's not a four-letter word. And you may remember I gave that talk profit's not a four-letter word. And I pointed out it funds philanthropy. It funds sitting in that chair. It funds your kids' education, it funds your. And so forth. Then without a profit, unless you're a silver Spooner, you're not going to be successful. You're not going to be able to help your family, help the needy and so forth. Go on mission trips. So, if it is in fact not a four-letter word, then shouldn't we get the most profit? And shouldn't we run our businesses as business people, not as frat rats? I mean, I looked at businesses when I rolled them up in 89 and 90, they were being run and they still are like fraternity houses. And, and it's unbelievable to me. I'm a businessman and I'm a surgeon and you know; it turns out you can be both. And I know that was really tough for people to swallow. I'm happy that now it seems that people have gone full circle and they understand they are in the business of aesthetic plastic surgery and aesthetic. And they want efficiencies and they want help in the back office and marketing and sales and all the management issues in HR and everything that every business in America has. So, that's where the rollups are going to help the doctors. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is the point of the roll up to eventually then just sell it to somebody else for even a lot more equity? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? But then who would that somebody be? Is it just some more business? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, you know, some are, some are established just to throw off cash and distribute it back. The shareholders. Mm-hmm. Some, I can think of a couple that come to mind. I'm not going to identify any of them, but, and some are clearly in the business of growing and then recapitalizing and then maybe recapitalizing a couple times and then ultimately then selling out. But the ones that are getting involved right now who tell me, oh, we're going to do this in sell out in three years. Right. I know they're... No question. That's the biggest path to failure to start a new business and say your goal is to sell in three years. Every business school textbook says that. And, and if you look at startups, the people that make the money are do not startup companies with the idea of selling. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I'm from the Silicon Valley. I live very close to it, and I was down there for a year and I was in the middle of the, I started in 1998 and I left in 2000 to start what I do now, because I thought, you're all crazy. Nobody, you're all just here to start something and, and pull out the money and leave. And all of us were, you know, millionaires on paper and we, it was over overnight, it was gone. And I was working for a startup that was burning through so much money and nobody had a. Just so it was so interesting to watch that, but you really have to know business and some where you're going with this. And now I tell the surgeons, you're not only in in the world of business, but you're also in the, in the game of marketing. You've got to market yourself. And they're still fighting that as well. Like, why should I have to market myself? And I think it's just, I think the surgeons are the most sophisticated of all medical societies because you've been kind of forced to be, but even then, you're, you're kind of behind that until you realize this is a business that includes the marketing. That's why this podcast is business and marketing. That's how you grow this thing, you know? Mm-hmm. So, tell me about Orange Twist. How is that different from Phoenix? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Okay. Very different. So, Orange Twist was started by Clint Can, Carnell and myself were the co-founders, and it's a Dr. Light approach to med spas. And we started with one and then we went to fi. We then we went to 15 and now we're going to have 30 by the end of the year. And what we provide are the non-surgical and minimally invasive type procedures that do not require a physician on-site. We have medical directors and say I am not the medical director of Orange Twist anymore, but we do have medical directors of the individual sites. And a general medical director overall. So, we have medical supervision, we have Orange Twist University. We train our staff. We emphasize quality and safety, number one. But a lot of patients don't want to go to a doctor's office. They want to drive in, get out of their car, walk into the Starbucks and go right next door and have their Botox or the Dify or their RHA or whatever filler, Restylane. I don't want to endorse one over the other. They want to have their aesthetic experience and it might be a laser treatment, it might be hair removal and so forth. There's the whole myriad of things, not surgery. So, the key thing, it's non-surgical there. It's not, it's on the first floor you can park in and walk in. So, it's the friction. We've taken the friction out of the experience you're easy to do business with and patients come in and, but they're not patients, they're clients and it's. Sort of like going to your hairdresser. Although I always say to the staff, you know, you're not hairdressers, you are practitioners and, and you know, their hair grows back but sometimes doesn't. So, but the experience for the consumer is very approachable. It's very simple. And patients love it. We also offer subscription services so that patients are on a subscription. They come in, they get their every three months neuromodulator, or in the case of Dify, every six months, neuromodulator, maybe every year or nine months, they're filler. Maybe they get one to two BBLs a year and so forth. So, now they come in and they have convenient payments that are taken from the credit card every month. It's, it's seamless. It's no different than Netflix or your iPhone payment, or your gym membership, or your car payment. Mm-hmm. And so forth. And patients love it. They absolutely love it. They send their friends and we're growing by leaps and bounds. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, who owns this thing? Are you taking over med spas that weren't doing well or they just didn't want to run it anymore and they're all on the first floor? Like how do you know they're on the first floor or they're all over the country, right? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: You're talking about the buying, the purchasing one. We build most of them. I mean, he would — Catherine Maley, MBA: oh, you're starting from scratch. You're just built, because I know another surgeon in Texas that he, he's a facial plastic, but he owns a med spa and then he brought you on board. I'm just trying to figure out like, how, how is that working? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Are you going after the plastic surgeon or the facial plastic surgeon who has a me spa or a med spa that's struggling or a brand-new building like you just said, like how's that business model? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: So, as I mentioned, we build most of them, de Nova. We acquire some that fit our model. You're referring to Steve Camp And he's not a facial plastic surgeon? He's a plastic surgeon. He's not facial. Oh, okay. He did an aesthetic fellowship with Dan Mills. Yes. He's a very friend. Dan and Sarah are fantastic people and have a great practice. And they came to us and we built that de novo with them. Oh, gotcha. They were our practice; they were our partners and they're running a great business. And there were a few we acquired here in the LA area, but they had to fit our model. You know, they're, you're not getting in an elevator. You're not hopefully paying for parking. Certainly, you're not, it's not there's not a lot of friction. We want to make it simple. Just like Starbucks. We want to make it, you don't pay for park for parking when you go to Starbucks, and I'm not sure you've ever been in a Starbucks on a second floor unless it's in another business. My point is, we put them conveniently next to gyms and other areas where people have high traffic beauty salons, Starbucks, I've mentioned that a few times. That's actually one of our areas we look for and other. High traffic areas where people can just go from one experience into another. Mm-hmm. People want to have the beauty experience. So, no, we're not looking for failed established practices at all. That's not at all the model. Mm-hmm. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's in, so is there, are you the owner, is there a board of directors? Is it also private equity? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: We just had an infusion of 40 million last Monday. Of course, there's a board of directors. There are many investors and owners. It's a thriving business, Catherine. Yeah. It's, it's a, there we have, it's a thriving multimillion dollar business. Mm-hmm. That has valuation, a high valuation. I mentioned we just had someone put another $40 million into it. So, yeah, it's. They're a number of owners, if you will, because they're all investors. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Okay. You're busy, you've got a Phoenix, you've got Orange Twist now, are you still doing your podcast? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, I am, I'm, I'm not doing much with Orange Twist. I'm certainly supporting them and I'm one of their, I'm helping with some of the medical stuff and I'm, I mean, I was just on the phone with c e o today and the chairman of the board yesterday, so, but I'm not actively working with Orange Tri because I'm so busy with various other things, including my podcast. But more importantly, I'm the chairman of the board of Engaged Technologies. And today is big news because today we announced we have a press release that Engage Technologies and Apex merged, the official merger was announced today. So, we so you know Terry Ross and Isaac Mosley, they have a P X. Which is a practice management tool, which includes a, a dashboard and a number of KPIs and a lot of management skills and training on the part of dairy. We merged with engaged Technologies. What did they do? And, and I mentioned I'm not, I'm the chairman of the board. I'm also the chief medical Information Officer and so forth. So, that's keeping me very busy. The technology of Beauty is the podcast and I'd love to plug it. You can watch a new episode every Tuesday. We have over a hundred episodes. Last week we had Carrie and Jason from Allergan. Tomorrow we are. Today we had Dustin Suits from Revance. We've had pretty much every single c e o and chairman of the aesthetic space. I mentioned we've had a hundred. I could run through it with you. It's a really fun prod podcast. I get to interview the movers and shakers of the beauty business and learn a lot from every one of them. We film it in a studio we have here in Manhattan Beach. It plays every Tuesday. It's on YouTube and all the other podcast feeds. It has videos, well as audio. We have three cameras. We have a whole film crew editing editorial staff. And it has been incredibly successful. And what, what audience are you attracting? Well, it's really fascinating you asked that because we have a mixed audience. Because we have so many industry people. It's fascinating to me what's happened. It's morphed. So, we have a lot of industry viewers. We have clinicians, especially entrepreneurial clinicians for sure. We also have people that are looking for jobs in the beauty business, which I never expected. And some of the companies are using the content to push it to their sales staff as well as to potential applicants. So, someone was going to interview with Dennis the other day, and this person, Dennis Conan, and this person watched Dennis's show. I didn't even know the person, and they called and thanked me because they had some insight into what he was all about. And that has now happened a number of times. And it was something that Max and I max is my producer and director, and he has influx marketing along with Adam. And we, when we set out, we weren't exactly sure what our goal was, but I was interviewing Richard Gonzalez, as you know, the, the head of AbbVie. And who that bought Allergan. And I got to the, for, I was fortunate enough to meet him off camera and talk to him when he took over and bought Allergan. And he is the chairman of the board and the CEO, and he runs everything with Abby. And I said, Hey, can I interview you so you can get to know the people in plastic surgery? And my mantra was already, as you know, the, the, the technology of beauty that's been across my, my wall since 1987. And I own that. It's trademarked. I own the technology of beauty. And so, I named the program the Technology of Beauty and, and Rick Richard Gonzalez was my first guest. And we had so much fun. I said, Hey, let's do this again. So, lo and behold, we started bringing other people. We got a studio, we got cameramen and sound people and editors, and it's just been so much fun over the last three or four years now. Excuse me. And we've learned a lot. I learned something from every single guest. Yeah, me too. It's incredible to me. We interviewed Eddie Yune not too long ago. He wrote the Super Consumer and he also wrote The Snow Leopard. And if you haven't read the Super Consumer, it's an amazing book and it relates right to what we're doing in aesthetics. I hardly encourage you to. And Eddie came and he presented some fascinating marketing information. Like what did you know? That people that make generators, companies that build generators sell a lot right after a natural disaster, you'd expect that an earthquake, a flood. Of course, people run to the local Home Depot or wherever you buy a, a generator. I must confess I have one because I lived in Southern California. I've been through earthquake, but. Did you know that when there hasn't been a natural disaster that their sales plummet? Not unexpected. Cause they're asking you to, you know, shell out, I don't know, five to 10,000, whatever it is, to buy one of these things and stick it in your garage and hopefully you'll never use it. Right? Right. Okay. Well, they came to Eddie asking about marketing advice. He's a consultant. So, what he did was very creative. He started looking at what people do that have generators. So, let me ask you something. Do you have extra refrigerator freezers in your garage? Do you, so you don't have a generator. Do you take an excessive number of. Yes. Okay. So, it turns out people that buy generators, number one, they all have more than one refrigerator freezer. And Tuesday in the garage they have backup freezers or they, they, and they keep frozen food out there. So, that's number one, predictor. Number two, they buy a ton of vitamins. So, then if you want to target your marketing, instead of geo-targeting like we do, you just for that com, for those companies, they targeted people who purchased these refrigerators, freezer, extra second and third, and then vitamins. And there were other collateral things. And in the book, he lists a ton of them. And 20% of the people consume 90% of our product. Again, 20% of our patients consume 90% of our product. And if we can identify who those 20% are and market to them, we're way better off. And Eddie was on the show, but we've had bankers, we've had CEOs, we've had some. A few doctors, not many. We've only had a handful of doctors, and they are, again, to be on, you have to be a mover and shaker of the beauty business. But we've had some docs on and they're big-time aesthetic surgeons and medical people. Mm-hmm. And it's great. I encourage you to check it out. We have a website. We also have Instagram page technology@beauty.com. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. You mentioned marketing, and I want to go back to that because you have such a well-rounded background in all facets of aesthetic medicine. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? What's working in today's world for at patient attraction? What, what has been working that you know about or you? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: It's so great you asked me that because this weekend I worked on this last weekend I worked on my talk to the residents and fellows coming up. They've asked me to talk about that. It's going to be a kind of a morphing from staying ahead of the competition talk. Mm-hmm. But you know, Catherine. Too much time is spent talking about just the peer marketing. The number one way to get patients is to be the best surgeon and physician you could possibly be and take the very best care of the patient sitting in your chair right now because that person will tell her sister or her family or her neighbor, and there's nothing better than word of mouth marketing. We have gotten so distracted by the other digital, which I'll talk on, but we've gotten so distracted that I see a lot of young people just jumping around on TikTok and not thinking about the fact that at the final analysis, if you don't deliver the very best services, the safest and best surgery or non-surgical aesthetic services, I don't care how much marketing you do, you will fail. It starts with the best surgery and, and medicine and being the best. After that, it's, it's communicating with your patients and then they will communicate with their friends and family and then you expand. And then it's building a website and have me before and after pictures, and then of course social media and we can talk about, you know, in the old days it was Facebook, then Instagram, now TikTok and others, and we can debate it all day long. We can talk about the target audience. If you're looking for facelifts, it's Facebook perhaps, although now that's moving down. Anything we talk about today be antiquated tomorrow. Right. Except that, except my first premise. Patient care, quality and safety will never be antiquated. And the biggest disservice I see are these people jumping around like a bunch of non-knuckleheads and thinking they're going to track. A bunch of patients and they will, short term, they will, but long term, if they're not delivering the goods, their history, and I've seen this over and over again. I remember when the internet was new and I performed my first webpage in 1994 and I remember being told by Harvey Zuru, patients will never find a doctor on a computer. And that's the quote he used. And that's when he heard I had something called a webpage. And my first webpage I built in November, 1994 and it was three pages and I did it myself. And then I went on to build tons more. And then obviously had people helping me such as Ryan Miller and, and Max and Adam and so forth. And that was the mainstay of it. And I still believe that's the lifeblood because it, that's where you can put the "before and afters" as a library and that's really what people want to see. But of course, that's not the whole answer. You need to have a social media presence. There's no question. And I'm, and I'm suggesting that everyone does that. And at this point, having someone help you with it is probably essential to tell you the truth. One PR one surgeon can't do it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I agree. I think you've got to have that person walking around with the iPad and, and videotaping you the day in the life of a surgeon if they want you involved in that, because you guys are so busy to add this social media to it. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? And some of the surgeons who come on my podcast, they'll spend two to four hours a day on social media, and they're getting a lot from it. But on the other hand, their staff is worn out trying to come deal with all these, they're not leads their inquiries, you know, or whatever you want to call them. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Yeah. In today's world, I think you've got to triage what's coming at you. You know, because when the public's coming at you, wow, your staff's going to get burned out from the all the crazy, you know? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Handle that. And it's a moving target, and it will continue to accelerate. The movements will not stop. And we can't even imagine what's going to be out there next with AI and all kinds of things we're going to be seeing. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. AI's really interesting. I tried it myself and it wrote some pretty darn good blog posts. I was really surprised. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Isn't that incredible? I had it do, I had one of them doing one of my slide decks just to see how close it was. The one I built. Yeah. And you know what, I got some great ideas from it. Mm-hmm. And I put it in my slide deck. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I was, and then I think now Google's not going to appreciate my writing anymore because I live off of content. You know, I write a content a lot and now they're going to, they're not going to value it like they used to because they're going to think everyone did the ai and I think, where are we going with all of this? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? This is crazy, but interesting. Grant Stevens, MD: R2-D2 is going to be writing all of our content. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. So, I wanted to talk about competing because you are so good at differentiating and that's how you compete. You just differentiate yourself from everybody else. Would you please explain the "Marina Man Land". How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Oh, "Marina Man Land — Where a man can feel good about looking great!" So, you know, historically men have occupied, occupied about 10 to 15% plastic surgeons of busy plastic surgeons practice for an aesthetics. And it varies. I know it can be less than 10, I know it can be over 15, but that's sort of the sweet spot. You can look at what the Aesthetic society might say, and I'm not sure the exact number they'll give you year to year, but that's kind of the range. But I was convinced that that number could expand. But it was going to take a new way of thinking. About aesthetics and the male and the male's, a unique creature. And when I started with Cool Sculpting in 2009, if you could believe that I brought it into the Med Spa. And then I looked at my experience in 12. I looked at the experience of 10, 11 and 12, 2000 10, 11, 12, and I learned a number of things and I wrote it up. It was published in August of 2013, the Aesthetic Surgery Journal. And what I found was that 74% of the people that came in my office in the first three years to for Cool Sculpting, had never been to Marina Plastic Surgery. They had never heard of me. They'd never been there. I thought, well, that's kind of interesting. It's kind of a magnet. And they all wanted to lose a little fat. And then we drilled down lower further, and we looked at those people and we said, have you ever had anything aesthetic at all, including a medical grade facial? And 84% had never had any aesthetic procedure. So, not only were they new to my practice, they were new to what I do for a living. And then I drilled down even further. And guess what? 41% of them were men. Huh? So, then I interviewed on Paper, 200 plus Men. I had over 200 responses, and I asked them what they liked and what they didn't like about being in my office. This is before Man Land. I asked them, you know, what would stop them from coming? What would encourage them from coming in? Of course, we got the smart asses that, you know, would talk about, you know, beer, tap beer, and you know, topless women or whatever. We got all the crazy answers. But when I drilled through it, There were some absolute trends and consistencies guys hate sitting on couches. Oh, amazing. This is almost like Eddie Yoon stuff. They love chairs. Yeah, they love leather, they love the smell of leather. They hate the smell of this fufu stuff That was pump pumping into my established reception area with all these women. Because I had been very successful with my model and I wasn't targeting men, but the men came in for CoolSculpting because I was running it on ESPN. And the ESPN guys Mason and Ireland were talking about themselves getting it. So, I got a bunch of guys in the Lakers show and so forth, and that's what grew my men. But then I got a chance to find out what they wanted. They wanted a combination between a sports bar and a, a cigar lounge. They wanted flat screen TVs in every room. They wanted to smell leather. They wanted to sit in chairs, not couches, and on and on and on. So, I decided, guess what? I'm going to build Marina man land like Disneyland. And it's the same fun where a man can feel good about looking great. And so, with that in mind, I put a flat screen on every single wall of every single structure of every single room, including the restroom. I also put a standup urinal in the restroom, and I ran the Sports Illustrate bathing suit edition on the restroom television over the urinal, 24 hours a day it never turned off. Scantily clad bathing suit, bikini women from. Sports Illustrated? No. Topless, no. Cause it was all approved by Sports Illustrated. And there's a little side story to that. We did it in darker colors, we did it in wood, we did a lot of leather. And I actually put together a proprietary smell that I pumped into the space because one of my thesises actually, when I, I was an experimental psychologist actually, and I studied olfactory stimulation as one of my oh my, one of my papers, actually, one of my research areas was the, the effect of olfactory stimulation. So, I put together the smell of leather and cigars and one other proprietary smell that I never revealed, and I still haven't. I got a company to put it together and we pumped it in every single room except the bathroom. Mm-hmm. And., I remember I put pictures up in all the rooms with, with women and, and guys doing all kinds of fun stuff. A lot of motorcycles and sports and horses and guns and all kinds of male stuff. Mm-hmm. And I brought my mom in before I opened the door. I didn't let a single woman in before I opened the door. I built this and no females were in it. I brought my mom in; she made me take down two of the pictures. Okay. And that was fine. Okay. And we're good to go. And then we opened the doors. Now the amazing thing, not even men love it. And we had, you know, it was amazing. God rest us soul Larry King came all kinds of people. I just thought someone, I, I think it was on says Charlie came, you can fill in the blanks. I had many of my friends and neighbors. Who came in and checked it out and loved it and loved it. How much free PR did you get from them and they, how much, what, how much free PR did you get from Oh my God, they did a thing on the, on the morning news show where what's her name? Harvey channel nine. She was there the whole morning. They starred the news show in the morning and they kept cutting away for two or three hours. They cut away back to Marina Man land where a man can feel good about looking great. I had a rule, no one could say the name of MML without saying the tagline that I invented. So, that's why I say it because I, my staff will go crazy if I don't say that when I say the name of M n l to. But we had so much media coverage actually when Larry came, Larry King came in one morning about nine in the morning to the regular office and said, Hey I understand you've got a s special place for men. Can I see it? I said, boy, I'd love to take you, but I'm kind of tied up. Let me take you briefly and then my staff will take you around. I got a full office of patience. I took him back there. He would not stop talking about it. He couldn't believe I had a ural. He couldn't believe I had the sports illustrator thing. I had so much fun with people just wanting to come in. And then lo and behold, they wanted Saturday hours. Then they wanted beer, then they wanted to smoke cigars. And of course, we can't do that. And I couldn't serve beer. But guys smuggled it in to have cool sculpting. And when I found it, of course I disposed of it. But my staff would say, the guy back in such and such room, he's drinking beer out of a whatever. And I'd say, dude, you can't do that, man. But it was so cool. And guys would sit around in their leather chairs and the number one question was, Hey dude, what are you in for? It was like, it was like a prison, but it was what you in for. And I also played a lot of pre and post-op stuff because the wives sent them enzyme sometimes and the guys would watch stuff that they didn't know could happen. A lot of guys are not as well versed as women and they would say, Hey Doc, what happened on that patient? Back in on, I we had photo books there. It was absolutely incredible to me the naivety of so many men. They might be there to lose a couple inches with cool sculpting, but boy, they morphed into surgery like you wouldn't believe. One quarter in 2015, 51% of our patients were men of, of the coast company. It was unheard. The baseline was 10 to 15%. As I told you, it was 41% in our first three years and one quarter we eclipsed 50%. We went to 51. We didn't do it after that. But that was the one quarter yeah, marina Man land. It was a ton of fun building. We kept morphing it. It's a ton of fun now. We got tons of media coverage. Yeah. And I'd love to talk to anybody who has questions about it. It's, it's a big deal. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. It was really cool. What do you think about the patients today? How much have they changed from, let's say pre-social media? Have they changed much? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Oh, yeah, they changed a ton. So, so how, A couple ways. So, as you know, the average age is going down mm-hmm. In general, and we have released some statistics on that last week. So, the average age of a consumer getting a non-surgical has dropped 10 years in like two. That's one big difference. If you look at a picture of a person from 10, 15, no, 20 years ago, a 50-year-old person compared to now, or even better yet, a 70-year-old person today versus a 70-year-old person 30 years ago. Mm-hmm. It's remarkable how different they look. Mm-hmm. And a lot of that is aesthetics, but not, not all. I mean, skincare, it's health, overall health and wellness. So, we have people come in saying in the, well, I did years ago, say, well, I'm 65, this is my la I'm going to have a face that, but I'll never be here again. I remember hearing it over and over. I saw an 83-year-old woman on March 22nd, 2020, no, 20 March 21st, 2022. And I know that because I walked in and I announced I had just done my last surgery. Yeah. And she turned to me and she said, no, that's not true. You're going to do my surgery tomorrow. I said, no, I'm done. I just did. My friend's daughter, you'll have to talk to Justin Perez about it. She said, Nope, you're going to do my surgery tomorrow. I said, ma'am, I'm sorry. Sorry kids. I said to Maria, what, who exactly is this? So, she said, you know, you don't remember, but over 20 years ago you did my first surgery. It was my breast augmentation. And then about 10 years later, when I was 70, I told you, this is my last time. And I, you did my tummy tuck and you didn't touch my bra. Oh. And my facelift, you did my tummy tuck and facelift. And I told you with certainty that I would never be here again. And now I'm 83 and I'm here. And I, my face looks great. My tummy's still flat. And she picked up her blouse, she pulled up her bra and her breast fell down and she said, these puppies, this is her. These puppies need to be lifted and smaller. 83. She then turns to me and says, I'm sexually active. My husband and I want you to do this, and I care about how I look. And you were her and you were right. You told me. I would always care because if I cared at 60, I'd car at 70. If I cared at 70, I cared 80. And that's the difference in the consumer. They're the super consumers. Catherine Maley, MBA: And I can assure I'm in that group. My vanity knows no bounds. Every time I say I'm not going to do something, I hit that age and I completely change my mind and say, no, no. I'm, I need another five years getting used to this "Getting older". Grant Stevens, MD: Absolutely. I'm doing my eyelids this year and I'm turning 70 this year. So, there you go. You know we're going to go down kicking and screaming. We're the boom. We are not. It's going to fade away into the sunset. Yep. You know, we've got Keith Richards and Mick Jagger and Bruce Springsteen ahead of us. Mm-hmm. And we are not giving up hear It's, and you know that's when you're talking about differences, there's part of the differences. Yeah. We're not tolerating the, we don't, we know we're getting older, but we're not going to look older. Well, we're going to try our best not to. Yeah. Stay in shape, eat good food work out, have a healthy lifestyle, and have plenty of aesthetic services. Non-surgical for the most part. Yep. And then every now and then have a little nip and tuck and that's the difference. And that's my game plan. Yep. That also creates the other thing, I built a private door to my big office for the stars and for the people that were embarrassed, guess what? In the last decade, it had cobwebs. No. Used it. Even the stars didn't use it. Mm. And I rattle off the names of tons of them, and they didn't use it. They didn't care. They were signing autographs for God's sakes. And they're on social media. It's crazy. So, the privacy thing that the stigma of having aesthetic plastic surgery or aesthetic cosmetic services, it doesn't exist anymore. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I have no qualms about saying all the, oh my God, I've had so much done. It's crazy. And I'm 65 and I don't want to look like my grandmother at 65. I just, I can't get there. I'm, I'm going, I'm going kicking and screaming with you. Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Why don't you pull a picture out of your grandma at 65, take it and put it side by side with you in marketing this talk and say Steven said, you are not your mother. You're not your grandmother. Exactly. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I'll do that. I'll do an Instagram post as well on that, and I'll tag you. Grant Stevens, MD: because My sister-in-law did that recently. She took a picture of her grandma, same age of as, as this woman is, and it was so funny. I swear to you, they're the same age and you look at them and the other one looks 20, 25 years older. It's crazy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? So, to wrap it up is there, like, if you were going to give, cause this audience is basically surgeons and residents and fellows and it's more b2b, let's say. What, what advice would you give, not just the newbies, but people who have even like some of the surgeons who have been practicing for 20 years saying, what has happened here? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? I don't know where I'm going with all of this. Any advice for them to stay in the game because some of them aren't tired? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, obviously I touched on some of it and I still believe, I still believe. That we are physicians, the surgeons first. I still believe the crux of it, the core of it is being the best physician and surgeon. But I know that's not where you're going with this. You're talking about sort of practice success and marketing success and so forth. But I, the number one thing is that but also home, the road less travel. I have a T-shirt and I have a whole mantra that always be yourself unless you can be a pirate and, and then always be a pirate. And what I mean by that, and I didn't make that up. I read it. Okay. And I, but I use it. It's on t-shirts, it's on mugs, it's everywhere. Catherine Maley, MBA: All I can think of is Johnny Depp right now. So, where are you going with the buyer thing? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Well, I am certainly a pirate and so is it's funny. So, is Eddie Yun, and I didn't even know, used that pirate analogy till we got together. If you do what everyone else does, you are bound for mediocrity. So, the toughest thing, especially surgeons and physicians, they're, they're not the most creative people and they do follow rules and that's good. And we want our doctors to follow rules and we want our doctors to be safe, number one. But it turns out you're asking me what advice I give my fellows, and I have all 40 fellows, about 39 or FO 40. First be safe and, and, and, and the best surgeon, but think outside the box. Think of ways that other people haven't done it. Don't do it the same way I did it. Don't do it the same way your neighbor does it. If, if you do, that's fine, but. It's a guaranteed of mediocrity and it's a guarantee with one of — Catherine Maley, MBA: Have you always thought this way, this open? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? You are so entrepreneurial and open-minded and creative. And that's not normal for surgeons. You, you, you had to be pretty conservative and go by the books when you're becoming a surgeon. But then you have to ship gears and now be creative and that's, can you make that shift, you know? How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Well, I've always been an entrepreneur. When I was four years old, I had a tomato route When I was five years old, I had an egg route. When I was seven years old, I had a paper route. When I was nine years old, I had four paperboys working for you. For me, I mean, and so forth. I've always been an entrepreneur. I just happened to love science and people. And I went to med school and I came from a degree in psychology because I really love people and art and. I recognize because I interview all the fellows, I in residents, and I recognize I'm a unicorn. I reco. So, I call myself a pyro. But I'm telling you right now, these are the best and brightest people that I see. These plastic surgeons and Platy residents are so much brighter than I ever was and at am and they need to think outside the box and not be afraid of it. Not be frightened by it. Again, start with best patient care and then think of ways in which they can put themselves on the map. You know, the other thing is the golden rule. You know, your mother taught you before you went to, to in kindergarten, if you're fortunate enough to have a mother. Some of us weren't. I did have a wonderful mother, but do unto others as you would have them do under you, right? So, if you live by that credo, And you're a great surgeon. You just, everything follows thereafter and you'll be criticized for sure. I remember I was criticized for my seminars and for all kinds of crazy things I could go into forever. But, but I, you asked for advice. My advice is think outside the box. Do creative things. Hey, and if it is TikTok, God bless you. Let it be TikTok. That's just not my gig. Right. And I'll, I'll respect the fact that that's what you chose to do. And you'll get a bunch of patients, but then you better take great care of them because number one, they're getting home and tell their sister. And if you screw up, they're going to tell their sister. And bad news goes way faster than good news. The other thing is, you know, I'm not sure how much these guys are and gals are taking business school, but. It takes a lot more effort to get a new patient than to keep a patient in the practice or the dry cleaners. It's oftentimes said it's seven times more expensive, sometimes eight. I've heard 10, but it's a big multiple. Yeah. So, keep the patient in your practice for God's sakes. Don't keep patients for life. Don't just be a breast dog guy and just rotate and go around round, round, round. Keep them in there. Keep them in non surgicals. Even if you specialize, say in breasts or whatever, bring them in for non surgicals. Get someone else to do body or face, but keep them in your practice. It's far cheaper than acquiring new people. That is a key part of being successful in. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm so glad you said that. That has been my main message for the last 23 years, working with plastic surgeons, patients through life. It's cheaper, easier, they convert better. They give you that patient flywheel. If you get it right, it, there's no more, you're not advertising 10 times what you need to because you've got the patients doing it for you. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? I'm just glad you said that. Thank you. And so, for the last question, tell us something we don't know about you. Grant Stevens, MD: I love my doodles. I have three double doodles. I have tuxedo, I have blaze, and now I have little Gucci. Tuxedo is a double doodle, which is a cross between a golden doodle and a Labradoodle from American hunting doodles in Portland. One of his little nephews is Blaze and he has Tuxedo is named Tuxedo because he's a white spot here in his chest. And he looked like a tuxedo when I first got him. And Simeon Wall gave him to me. Dr. Sin Wall gave him to me as a gift. Can you believe that? Did you want another dog? I had so many dogs up at the ranch. I never even dreamt of having another dog. He said on a Sunday, go down to Alaska Air Freight. I'm sending you a puppy as a thank you. And I said, Simeon, I live at the beach. I don't need another dog. I have dogs. I've got 31 Labradors up at the ranch. I don't need a dog. He said, just go get it. It's Jelly's brother. I fell in love instantly. And Tux has been my sidekick, along with Aaron. Aaron Stevens, I might add. And, and Tux has been our sidekick only. And then we got Blaze. And Blaze has the blaze pattern of horses. Of those of you who are who know horses, blaze is the white face and the white chest. And he's lovely. And he's tux is nephew. And then finally, recently we got Gucci, the first girl in the, in the deal. And Erin wanted Gucci. She fell in love with Gucci online, called up Scott Ferrell, who owns American hunting doodles. And we were blessed to have Gucci. And she's down here in Manhattan Beach and she's in the Puppy Academy here in Osa Beach. And the other two are up waiting for me to go back to Sun Valley. I'm living in Sun Valley most of the time. I'm. Beach here temporarily to see a couple people and do a little business with companies, you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Well congratulations. I didn't realize you got married. Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah, well, we're not married. Oh, no. We have the same last name. She changed her name and we're domestic partners for now. We haven't had wedding yet, but we just got Enough is enough. And so, it's Erin and Grant Stevens, and we're so happy. And we'll announce when we have the marriage and the wedding. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you had to tell Google, because you know what happened when I was researching you today, I just put in like, grant Stevens, MD Surgeon, California Grant, Steven's wives, and you have four wives. You have photo. Yeah, you have four wives. One of them was your old you know practice manager and then the others, I think. I don't know. But anyway, it looks like you had four wives, so I, you might want to tell Google that. How dare you. There's only Karen. Grant Stevens, MD: Okay, let's be perfectly clear. My practice manager was never my wife. Let's get that clear. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Google doesn't think so. Grant Stevens, MD: Well, I'm going to go check out and find out. So, I did have one wife before. Right. And a wonderful marriage. And that ended like for 30 years, right? 34-year months. That's a good run. Good for you. Yeah. Wonderful. And then I'm in the second phase and then I was working with and, and getting to know Erin and we've been together for many years now and so forth. And we are domestic partners and we will be getting married and we couldn't be happier. Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, well Congrats you have Yeah, go ahead. Grant Stevens, MD: I've seen that about Google, but I'll go on as soon as we're done right now Cause I, I've never had, I, I've only had one. My, I don't have four wives. Catherine Maley, MBA: I know. I was offended for you. I said, this is, this is misinformation. But anyway, I just, I'm, I'm so pleased to see how you have transitioned because that's what a lot of the surgeons I hang around with, they're trying to figure out what do I do now? Like what do I do with this practice that I'm kind of ready to wind down, you know? And look at all the options that, I mean, I hope everyone's clear that they have so many options. They can work with industry, they can work with business, they can work with vendors. They can do real estate. There's a lot of things you can do. You don't just have to be a surgeon anymore. So, think outside the box. How does this relate to this episode's title of "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD? Grant Stevens, MD: Right? And the, you asked about advice number one. I would check out Engage Technologies. It will help. What is that? Well, hold on. And number two, I would use Patient five for all your patient financing. And number three, I would use subscription aesthetic services, the best of which is Privi, P R I V I. That is. Without a doubt, the very best you get paid the very next day after you do the services, you don't chase down the patients, you will double your, your volume and double your patient revenue. I can show you from the Hi MD experience, I'll be talking about this to the Aesthetic Society and in octane in Nashville and, and other meetings coming up. It, it will change everything in your practice. Okay. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's enough of that. You're the only one who's been allowed to promote stuff, so we're okay. Yeah, we're a clean podcast here. Grant Stevens, MD: That's fine. You asked me what I do and I help them. They're going to hear me talk about it anyways. For sure. You can cut it out if you want. Catherine Maley, MBA: No, no, no, it's fine. Alright, well thank you so much Dr. Stevens. I do hope to see you someday. I'm, I'm just — Grant Stevens, MD: So, hopefully get the next meeting? Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's not going to happen, but maybe the next, next one. So, everyone with that I'm going to wrap up Beauty and the Biz and Dr. Stevens, if somebody did want to get ahold of you, what's the best way? Grant Stevens, MD: drstevens@hotmail.com. drstevens@hotmail.com or stevensgrant13@gmail.com. They don't like Hotmail. My daughter gives me grief about being on Hotmail. Catherine Maley, MBA: I have not heard Hotmail in a long time. Yeah, but I'm glad you went Gmail eventually. So, good for you and thanks again for sharing your insights, Dr. Grant Stevens. Grant Stevens, MD: They both worked. They both get. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on insights from Grant Stevens, MD. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Stevens, you can reach out to his website at, www.MarinaPlasticSurgery.com. A big thanks for sharing his insights from Grant Stevens, MD. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #drgrantstevens #grantstevensmd #orangetwist #grantstevensinterview #theaestheticsociety | |||
| 200th Episode — 10 Top Practice Pearls (Ep.200) | 08 Apr 2023 | 00:17:47 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and my 10 top practice pearls. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "200th Episode — 10 Top Practice Pearls". Time really does fly. I am so excited to record this 200th episode of the Beauty and the Biz Podcast. Four years ago, the Beauty and the Biz Podcast was created to talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and it's been a great ride. It's fascinating to hear how every practice is unique and runs differently because each surgeon is different in their beliefs, perceptions, understandings, and past experiences. This week's Beauty and the Biz podcast is a compilation of the 10 Top Practice Pearls I gleaned from my guest interviews that you will find thought-provoking and even mind-bending. Thank you so much for following my work and enjoy! Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: 200th Episode – 10 Top Practice Pearls Time really does fly. I am so excited to record this 200th episode – 10 top practice pearls of Beauty and the Biz. Four years ago, the Beauty and the Biz Podcast was created to talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and it's been a great ride. It's fascinating to hear how every practice is unique and runs differently because each surgeon is different in their beliefs, perceptions, understandings, and past experiences. The majority of surgeons I interview are in solo practice, so they have the freedom to build and control their practice as they see fit. However, there's a flip-side. It can be a lonely existence. You live in your own myopic world with no one to bounce ideas off, so you can easily lose perspective and waste time and money guessing what to do next to grow your practice. There's also a lot of fear around financial failure. Even though you've had years of training to be a surgeon, you have not had equal amounts of training on running a business, leading a team, managing staff, working with fickle cosmetic patients, and marketing yourself in an uber competitive marketplace. That's why the Beauty and the Biz Podcast came about. It's a resource for you to learn from others who have been there and done that. Their challenges, opportunities, insights, mistakes, and wins. I did the Top 10 Take-a-Ways from the FIRST 100 podcasts on episode #100, that you may want to go back and listen to since it's full of good stuff, so I went through the last 100 podcasts and pulled out 10 more Top Practice Pearls and here they are: Top Practice Pearl #1: Build a Brand You Are Proud Of Branding is how you present your practice to the world. It's how you build connection with prospective cosmetic patients. It's the way you're seen through their eyes, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. It's your persona. It tells prospective patients what to expect from you in terms of quality, service, results, and price. Branding is more than just your logo and website. It's your story. Who you are, where you came from, why you became a surgeon, what you stand for, as well as your core beliefs and values. It's your vision and your mission statement on your website that you and your team actually live by consistently. It's your reviews, social media, before/after photos and your streamlined processes. It's all facets of your practice representing you including your location, office, furniture and details count: It's Your hair, clothes, shoes, as well as your staff's hair, clothes, shoes and so on. The point is to be who you want to attract. If you don't want price-shoppers who haggle with you, invest in your own high-end brand to attract high-end patients. It's that simple. Top Practice Pearl #2: Don't Hope for New Patients – Market for New Patients! A successful cosmetic practice is not happening by accident or by luck. They are doing something to make that happen. In today's competitive world, top practices execute many strategies to attract new patients, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. For example…. They enhance their online presence by updating their website look, making it mobile friendly, adding social media buttons and B/A photos and videos. They consistently add fresh, updated content that is informative, entertaining, and compelling because that's how you increase your digital footprint on the Internet. They open their mind and embrace new marketing strategies such as Instagram Reels, YouTube Shorts and Facebook Lives since video is hot! They have a marketing team of 1 or an agency with a good video editor they meet with regularly to plan and create content, so they are active on social media. They may even start a podcast and/or patient webinar to educate consumer patients on their services. And reviews, B/A photos and referrals are a priority. They focus on their patient relationships and the journey the patient has with them because they realize that's where reviews and referrals come from. BTW, the surgeons who have thousands of before/after photos on their website got them because they asked the patients themselves. Typically, 1/3 said yes, 1/3 said yes with restrictions such as don't show their face or only show them in the office and 1/3 declined. The top practices typically have an ad budget and plan since organic SEO has become more challenging, so they need to advertise. However, they watch those numbers carefully to be sure they are at least breaking even, since they can make it back with valuable patients returning, referring, and reviewing. Top Practice Pearl #3: Automatic Marketing System The top practices use marketing automation to map out automatic marketing plans with funnels, email automation, SEO, landing pages, opt-in forms and follow-up sequences to handle incoming leads more efficiently, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. They realize this is a numbers game and not all leads are equal, so they get help setting up technology to triage and respond accordingly. And they also train their staff and hold them accountable on their lead gen process, so staff is clear where they fit into the system. This also frees up their staff to focus on priority leads and great customer service. Before I go on, I want to comment on these first 3 pearls. Branding, advertising and marketing cost money. Hiring enough staff and the right staff costs money. But surgeons hate to lose money. So, they skimp in these areas and wonder why their competitors are doing better. The answer is because the top practices invest in their growth and hire the best they can afford. It's a mindset shift worth considering. Top Practice Pearl #4: Get Good at the Fundamentals The biggest problem holding you back might be your narrow focus on "getting more leads". You might be throwing a ton of money at SEO, google AdWords, social advertising and directories OR you're spending a ton of time creating content for your Instagram and Facebook followers. Yes, it's exciting to get lots of leads and comments but here's the kicker…Leads are only one part of it. These leads need to be converted because if you can't monetize these leads, then you're throwing money down the drain, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. The top practices know this and focus on all 5 key areas to attract and convert patients. That includes:
That's how you build a practice flywheel that keeps your practice humming along, so instead of buying a new $150K laser and hoping new patients flock to it, you fix your phones and train your coordinator to convert consultation to give yourself a $500K+ raise because you are not losing high value patients trying to give you money. Top Practice Pearl #5: Surround Yourself with A-Players Staffing issues will be one of your biggest challenges when running a cosmetic practice. Miss hires cost you a fortune in time, money, sleepless nights, and bad mojo in the office, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. On the other hand, (1) A-Player will produce more than (3) of the miss hires so the top practices spend more time finding, training, and retaining top producers than fiddling with those who are not up for the challenge. They get the right people on the bus and in the right seats, they give the right tools to do their job quickly and efficiently and they hold them accountable with metrics and evaluations. They make it a priority to develop a positive culture that employees enjoy and are loyal to, because a negative culture creates angry or frustrated employees, poor communication, lack of passion, and staff feeling underpaid, overworked, and unappreciated. They treat staff as a revenue-generating asset, rather than an overhead cost because they know their staff is their differentiator. They also acknowledge and recognize their staff with perks, bonuses, and fun. Top Practice Pearl #6: Predictable Revenue Streams The top practices realize the value of cosmetic patients who want to look good today, next month, next year and for years to come, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. So, While surgery is their main focus, there is much money left on the table when that patient is treated as a "one and done" rather than as a "patient for life". It's getting too confusing, expensive and time intensive to constantly refresh with brand new stranger patients, so the top practices offer a loyalty/rewards program to nurture their patients to return, refer, review, approve their B/A photos and share you on social media with their friends and followers. This gives them a competitive edge because it costs a fortune to attract a new patient and almost nothing to keep that patient loyal to you without spending a dime on advertising. BTW, I can help you with that so let me know. Top Practice Pearl #7: Embrace Change The top practices are not only good with change – they embrace it. They see challenges as opportunities to learn and grow. To improve their practice and better their best. To learn new skills, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. To take calculated risk, but plan for the unknown. They face many challenges, but they keep their optimism that the future will be good and that gives them strength to tackle problems. They are adaptable and able to abandon their old ways in favor of where the world is moving, i.e., they go digital and embrace social media and video. They believe they have control and the power to shape their destiny. They depend more on themselves than on the whims of the world. Top Practice Pearl #8: Lead the Team There's a popular business quote from Peter Drucker that says, "Only three things happen naturally in organizations: The top practices know that success starts at the top. They take responsibility for their wins and their losses and look at failure as feedback and keep on going. They have passion and love for what they do and are driven to build a successful practice. They study leadership principles and lead by example. They are decisive and communicate clearly and meet regularly with their team to talk about their vision, values and goals. They celebrate their wins, while acknowledging and appreciating their team. They collaborate with their team and see this as a group effort since they can't do it alone. Note: Every top practice I have interviewed on Beauty and the Biz is giving back. It makes them feel good, it gives their staff a bigger "Why" and it's also good for their brand, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. Just saying. Top Practice Pearl #9: Resilience is a Skill Resilience is defined as the capacity to withstand or to recover quickly from difficulties and challenges through mental, emotional, and behavioral flexibility and adjustment to external and internal demands, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. The surgeons running the top practices have resilience. They have bounced back from all sorts of setbacks including partnerships breaking up after working together for years, having long-term office managers abruptly quit, rogue associate causing drama in the office, embezzlement, frivolous lawsuits, illness, hurricanes, build-out permit delays, and it goes on and on. But no matter what, they get back up, dust themselves off and get back at it. They know this is just a part of doing business and they keep their focus on the end result and solutions. They also turn to their trust advisors, colleagues, and friends for guidance. AND LASTLY, Top Practice Pearl #10: Streamline, Scale and/or Sell The top practices use their business and marketing skills to set up an efficient money-making machine that runs smoothly. They streamline their processes and have others manage the practice while they lead the way and oversee the numbers, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. Then they scale to have predictable revenue streams that are transferable. They set up profit centers and bring on other revenue producers to build value and revenues that are not dependent on them. Because the surgeons in the top practices are thinking ahead. They ask early, "How do I get off this treadmill and get my equity out when it's time?" They plan to have enough money to retire WELL and not have to step down in their lifestyle. But oftentimes, their income is their lifestyle. Their assets become their wealth. But they discover you make it on equity – not on income so they find investments that build their equity that is NOT dependent on them. The current trend is private equity coming into plastic surgery practices and consolidating administrative areas such as payroll, HR, benefits, hiring, negotiating purchasing contracts for economies of scale and so on. The practices that join the group build up their value by decreasing their overhead costs and streamlining their processes for increased efficiency, so they build equity to secure their future. Stay tuned since I'll have more guests on Beauty and the Biz talking about this, so you know your options. And there you have it! the Top 10 practice pearls I gleaned from the surgeons I interviewed in the last 100 episodes. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate your interest and I'm working on the next 100 episodes so be sure to subscribe. And, of course, please contact me if you could use some guidance OR, if you are looking for unbiased strategies to grow your practice, check out the www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com guaranteed to get you more patients and profits, Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on my 10 top practice pearls. And if you have any questions or feedback for me on my 10 top practice pearls, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "200th Episode — 10 Top Practice Pearls".
A special thanks to all of my guest speakers over the past 100 episodes! 103 Kristi Hustak, MD https://kristihustakmd.com/ 104 Philip J. Miller, MD, FACS http://www.drphilipmiller.com/ 105 William P. Adams, MD https://www.dr-adams.com/ 108 Michael T. Somenek MD https://somenekpittmanmd.com/ 108 Troy A. Pittman MD FACS https://somenekpittmanmd.com/ 109 Randy Waldman, MD https://www.waldmanplasticsurgery.com/ 112 Dr. Andres Gantous https://www.torontofacialplastic.com/ 118 Dr. Marco Pelosi III https://pelosimedicalcenter.com/ 120 Dr. Angela Sturm https://drangelasturm.com/ 122 Dr. Stanley Okoro, MD https://www.georgiaplastic.com/ 126 Frank L. Stile, MD, FACS https://www.drstile.com/ 135 Harvey Cole, III, MD https://oculusplasticsurgery.com/ 137 P. Daniel Ward, MD https://www.wardmd.com/ 139 Edwin Williams, MD http://www.williamsfacialsurgery.com/ 141 Lauren Umstattd, MD https://faceleawood.com/ 143 David Mandell, JD, MBA https://www.ojmgroup.com/ 146 Robert Singer, MD https://www.primeplasticsurgery.com/ 147 Joe Niamtu, DMD https://www.lovethatface.com/ 149 Lionel Meadows, MD https://www.meadowssurgicalarts.com/ 151 Brock Ridenour, MD https://www.ridenourplasticsurgery.com/ 155 Mark Beaty, MD https://www.beatymd.com/ 157 Michael Persky, MD https://www.drpersky.com/ 159 Carlos Mata, MD https://www.naturalresultsaz.com/ 161 Bradford Bader, MD https://www.baderfacialplastics.com/ 163 Sheila Barbarino, MD https://barbarinosurgicalarts.com/ 164 Diana Ponsky, MD https://www.drdianaponsky.com/ 166 Charles Boyd, MD https://www.boydbeauty.com/ 167 Paul M. Parker, MD https://www.parkercenter.net/ 168 Jeffrey Spiegel, MD https://www.drspiegel.com/ 170 Sam P. Most, MD https://med.stanford.edu/drmost/about-us/meet-dr-most.html 171 Jennifer Levine, MD https://www.drjenniferlevine.com/ 172 Alexander Rivkin, MD https://westsideaesthetics.com/ 173 Steven Camp, MD https://www.campplasticsurgery.com/ 175 Kristina Zakhary, MD https://facialcosmeticsurgery.ca/ 176 Lamar Rutherford, MBA https://excellenssolutions.com/ 177 Jason S. Hamilton, MD https://blacknosejob.com/ 178 Thomas P. Sterry, MD https://www.drsterry.com/ 179 Giancarlo Zuliani, MD https://www.zulianimd.com/ 182 Jeremy Warner, MD https://warnerplasticsurgery.com/ 186 Burke Robinson, MD https://www.robinsonfps.com/ 187 Lawrence B. Keller, CFP https://www.physicianfinancialservices.com/ 188 Jason Pozner, MD https://www.sanctuarymedical.com/ 189 Ryan Neinstein, MD https://neinsteinplasticsurgery.com/ 190 Gregory Mueller, MD https://drgregmueller.com/ 192 Nicholas K. Howland, MD https://howlandplasticsurgery.com/ 193 Sam Lam, MD https://www.lamfacialplastics.com/ 194 Lisa Marie Wark, MBA https://www.lisamariewark.com/ 195 Jason Bloom, MD https://www.bloomfacialplastics.com/ 196 Emily Hartmann, MD https://www.beautyeternalchico.com/ 198 Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD https://byrdadatto.com/ 199 David Kaufman, MD https://www.thenaturalresult.com/
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #10toppracticepearls #topplasticsurgeonbusinesstips #aestheticpracticebiztips | |||
| Outsourcing is Trending — with David Kaufman, MD (Ep.199) | 01 Apr 2023 | 00:34:55 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how outsourcing is trending. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Outsourcing is Trending — with David Kaufman, MD". There is a trend happening in our industry to outsource the parts of your practice that you don't enjoy doing such as:
Its popular in other industries to consolidate these tasks for increased efficiency as well as economies of scale to decrease overhead costs. This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with David Kaufman, MD who is a board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Fresno, CA. He is in the process of transitioning his practice to allow him to focus on surgery versus the business side of surgery. He explains what he gains and what he loses when he hands off this part of this practice and how this outsourcing is trending amongst cosmetic practices. So interesting… Visit Dr. Kaufman's websiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Outsourcing is Trending — with David Kaufman, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now I have a really special guest today. He was on here before, but he came back for a new topic on how outsourcing is trending amongst cosmetic practices. It's Dr. David Kaufman. Now he's a board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Folsom, California. And for those of you who know, it's near Sacramento, California. So, he's been on Beauty and the Biz before. But this time we're going to talk about a new trend that we're calling private equity and plastic surgery, and how those two fit together. Dr. Kaufman, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. David Kaufman, MD: Thanks for having me back, Catherine. Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, let's just start with, just describe the, your practice that you have right now in Folsom. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Sure. So, we have a, a primarily cosmetic practice. It's basically full service, aesthetic surgery. So, we currently have three surgeons under roof. I've been here for 16 years. My associate, my senior associate's been here for five. And then we just brought on a new surgeon a few months. So, like I said, now there's three of us. We have a med spa that does really pretty well. We've got two nurse injectors and an esthetician. And then we have two operating rooms. We have a 13,000 square foot building and you know, we're just living the train here in California. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, me too. Yeah. So, I didn't realize you brought on another surgeon. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? Good for you. Wow. David Kaufman, MD: She's great and she's a she, which is a differentiator. You know, I think for us that was a nice gap in our practice that we didn't have before. Catherine Maley, MBA: And are they associates, as in contractors, partners, what? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: They're employ, they're employed surgeons, so, they're employees. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay, so, let's talk about private equity. This subject keeps coming up and I'm so, glad you are in the middle of it and you can help under help us understand it because I'm hearing different stories about it and what, what is private equity and how does that fit with plastic surgery? David Kaufman, MD: That's a great question and that's hopefully what we're here to talk about today. So, certainly that's a trend in plastic surgery. Our practice recently underwent a, what I call a strategic partnership, where we joined another group of practices. They have private equity backing, so, we're not directly contracting with private equity, but there are certainly some practices out there now that are being acquired by private equity groups to roll up practices and then create some economies of scale. And obviously the private equities plan is to then sell them again, hopefully for a profit. You know, if I look at my personal situation, I turn 57 this week. Oh, by the way, ha. Happy birthday, Catherine. You too. And then, you know, if you look at historically the exit strategy for plastic surgeon is not great. Typically, you know, plastic surgeons who to close down their practice or sell their practice to a junior associate for what might be, you know, one EBITDA or even less. You know, if you look at what private equity brings to the table, they're certainly bringing in. To take some equity off the table, but they also have a much better sense of how to run a business. At this point, we have 35 employees and, you know, we're now a big business. We're not just a little mom and pop shop anymore. And our hope, at least in our perspective, is to be able to draw on the experience of these larger firms to consolidate HR, consolidate payroll, improved purchasing, create some economies of scale, and really take a small company and. Run like a, a big, more efficient company. So, what turned me onto this was actually when I listened to your podcast, I heard Dr. Singer and he's actually the group that I ultimately ended up joining. Okay. But certainly, in medicine, these rollups I've worked across dermatology, across GI, across cardiology and, and others. So, this is a thing. It's happening and even with a pretty tight debt markets transactions are still, still happen. Catherine Maley, MBA: Let me just ask a stupid question. Is this a roll up business? Are you selling your practice in, in essence, are you selling your practice to private equity? So, then they build it up for you so, then everybody can roll up all of these practices and then sell it again like, and then you all leave with money, right? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: So, there's different strategies, of course, but at a very basic level, if a private equity firm comes. They will acquire part of your practice, there's going to be an expectation that you will stay on and re retain some equity. The goal then, though, is to aggregate profitability because let's say your practice has a profit of $1, it's really not worth that much on the open market. Mm-hmm. If your practice has a profit of $10, that becomes more interesting to bigger private equity firms and your multiple of EBIT, it becomes. So, you know, the goal is to aggregate practices, to create greater EBITDA, to create efficiencies across the different practices and then create a much more interesting platform to purchase for another group. Or in theory you could go public, but you know, I think the second private equity play for bigger firms is probably the most likely play. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. By the way, he's saying EBITDA, just in case you don't know what that is. It's earnings before interest taxes and amortization. Yes. And that becomes really important, that word, when you're trying to create value for somebody else. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? Yes. To buy. So, is this your practice buying into here? Here's why I say this. I do real estate syndication. And the way you do those is a bunch of people who have extra money, they get together and they put in like how much they want, a hundred thousand, 200,000 for, and somebody has found the property. There's going to, it's apartment rentals. So, somebody has found this property with two or 300, 400 units, and they can't buy it on their own. So, they get a bunch of investors together. We all put in ours. And then they buy it and they manage it and we're passive income, so, we're not involved. They make all the decisions, but when it's comes time to sell it, then we all get our money back, hopefully, and then a whole lot more with it, or it's affinity. We try to hang onto that forever as a cash producing asset and then we never leave, you know? Right. Because well, we get our money back. Is it like that or is it something? David Kaufman, MD: I wouldn't say it's like that. Okay. So, in this instance, and in most instances of, at least my friends that have done this, they sell some interest in their practice and they retain some interest. Ah, the goal, of course, is to continue producing and creating value to the overall company. And then when the company sells, I eat that proverbial second bite of the apple. What's called rollover equity would be even more valuable than it's at the time of the original transaction. Most of these transactions are structured in that you roll over 20 to 40% of your purchase price. And the reason why they do that is, you know, in plastic surgery you are the value. It's not like a management company where a manage management or a manager could be. I can't be replaced very easily and I'm not irreplaceable, but there would be a lot of value out loss if I left. So, the goal is to take some equity off the table with a cash and close, but then, you know, build a company so, that the role of equity becomes also a very valuable consideration down the road. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, why would a surgeon want to do this? Let's do the pros and the cons. Why would you want to? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: So, the pros are, you know, there's a lot of pros and granted, I'm fairly new into this, you know, we've only been acquired two months ago. But if you look at the things that you know specifically, we don't like doing as most plastic surgeons or office managers or practice managers, HR, payroll, buying you know, all the things that really are not sexy or interesting, those can all be aggregated into a central. Office or essentially, you know, the backend could be shared through practices. There're also economies of scale. You know, if I buy one implant, I might get it for $800. If I buy a hundred implants, I might get it for $400. So, there's certainly an economic consideration to increasing purchase power. Catherine Maley, MBA: Would that go also with the injectables? With all the Absolutely. Pharma companies? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we would consider you one big client of theirs then, because you'd be under the umbrella of a bigger…? David Kaufman, MD: Right. So, we become a corporate account as opposed to individual account and the buying power is meaningful. Gotcha. And you know, even if you reduce your costs 10 or 15%, you know, over the course, Many dollars, it becomes meaningful. So, you know, if you could take a, a company and increase its profitability by 10 or 15%, just that in itself I think is a win. What else? You know, the, the world of plastic surgery is always uncertain. You know, we are a luxury item and to some degree there will be some economic headwinds that we face occasionally. And I think doing a transaction like this for someone like me who is. More senior in their career, takes some equity off the table and gives me some financial security. So, that should things go, you know, very downhill. Mm-hmm. Some of the equities off the table, so, there's some value there. And then, you know, ultimately my goal, and I think most surgeons' goals are that when we aggregate our efforts together, we improve our own practices and, and those of others, so, that when a second bite happens, if that happens, It becomes a, you know, a very valuable transaction. So, you know, it's nice to have a little bit of security up at the upfront, and then hopefully there's some meaningful upside on the, on the back end. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'm also thinking is does that. When they take over some of this HR and the inventory and all of that, does that mean you cannot hire two or three more people to do it yourself? So, you're not managing it, you're not hiring for it, and you're, you're not spending money on that kind of labor cost. Is that a benefit or is that part of what you're trying to do here? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Certainly, that's the, the hope we haven't gotten there yet because at this point, you know, our integration into the parent company is requiring a fair amount of. You know, the goal, of course, is to centralize a lot of the stuff that we currently have employees to do. Mm-hmm. And frankly, even if I can offload Kate, who's my wife's and office manager's plate that would be a win too. And I think that's going to happen because, you know, these, these functions are definitely being taken offsite. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Now, who is managing or who, who does the employee work for? David Kaufman, MD: So, The employees, in my case, work for the parent company and my parent company is Prime Plastic Surgery. Mm-hmm. So, my former employees are now employees of Prime Plastic Surgery, as are the other surgeon's practices who have been acquired. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you see that as an, I'm just going to be devil's advocate here. I've talked to some of the doctors at Stanford, let's say, and Stanford, they're not employ, you know, they work for Stanford, they don't work for that doctor. And then you have to hope that that staff is okay with that. You know, you don't need to hear them saying, you know, I don't work for you. Like, can you imagine that happening? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Well, you know, I think that then becomes an issue of leader. You know, I'm still the leader of this practice. I still make, you know, most of the decisions. Obviously, if there's something critical, I would ask for input from the parent company, but for the most part, our day-to-day existence is very similar as it was previously. You know, we still have the same surgeons, we still have the same teammates. They didn't install someone in here as like the new practice manager? They did or did not? They did not. Okay. You know, we have historically been a successful practice, at least by, I, I don't know, however you want to find success. And I think we've been reasonably successful. We want to maintain that. So, you know, we don't want a cultural shift. And that was something that I carefully investigated before we made this transaction is. You know, we have a successful practice with a very wonderful staff. And I was assured that I would still be able to make decisions about compensation bonuses and things like that to make sure that people still have, you know, the right focus and incentive to provide great care for our patients here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you have any resistance to the staff or anybody thinking, oh, what just happened? Did you, how, how did you handle that? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Well, we had basically a, a screw up. We announced that we were going to do this transaction almost six weeks before it happened. We thought it was going to happen sooner than it did, and for, you know, some number of reasons it didn't happen as quickly as we thought it did. So, at first there was a lot of anxiety because change brings anxiety. Yeah. But I think as time passed people realize that, you know, they still come to work, they still take care of patients, they still work with the same people that. Benefits were very, very similar to what they were previously, and that their work really isn't that different. It just, you know, the, the person who signs the check now is different. So, we've lost no employees. I think we have very good buy-in from them in terms of still focusing on great patient care. And so far, so good. Okay. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, why wouldn't you want to do this? Yeah. Like, gimme the, the, what's the negative? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Yeah. It's risk. You know, you're, you're doing a deal and you're getting into bed with people. You hopefully, you know, but you never know until probably years down the road. So, you're going to give up some autonomy and that's not always easy. Ultimately, you'll have to play in a sandbox with other people. You know, the parent company may have ideas of how to do things and you may have ideas of how to do things and somehow another, you need to reconcile those and that everybody is happy enough. Catherine Maley, MBA: Like do they stay out of the surgical side and then you stay out of the HR side? Is it like, can it be that like line in the sand? Can it be like that? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: I'm sure any agreement is possible. I don't imagine that some bean counter's going to come in and show me how to do surgery. But you know, I think they probably have ways that they want to do inventory or HR sort of thing. But again, you know, we're only two months into integration and we're trying to figure some of this stuff out. Catherine Maley, MBA: Hmm. You know, you, I know this was your second go around. You had tr you had actually almost closed with a different group. Can you just talk about that for a second? Because I really want the audience to hear what, to watch for sure. What, what are the yellow flags or what could go wrong? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: So, the first go round, we went out to market, had some suitors. We went through management meetings and ultimately, we chose to enter into a letter of intent with a private equity group out of Chicago. And we lawyered up. We got all our documents ready to go. We had gotten to essentially within 10 days of close, it was going to be a very different structure. It was more the traditional private equity purchases, some portion of our practice. In that case, it was going to actually be a minority interest they were going to buy and we were going to be the platform on which to go out and acquire other practices. Mm-hmm. It's unclear to me exactly what happened, but in the. When we got very close to sort of consummating the deal, they didn't follow through on what they were supposed to do and the deal blew up and we were done. It was incredibly disappointing. There was four to six months of efforts negotiating management meetings, onsite meetings you know, in excess of a hundred thousand dollars of legal costs, not to mention the time. And in the end, you know, I was smarter. But, you know, I had nothing to show other than, you know, a couple of bumps and bruises and a little bit of a, a little bit of an experiential learning. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. D was this like, so, with the lesson B, don't be the first, like, join a group, like join private equity that's already been in the game. Is that this, the, the point to that. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: I think it would've worked had we gotten across the finish line. I think it depends on what you want. I think if you, in that case, we are going to be the platform on which to build other practices. Right. And I think that is an enormous amount, amount of work as opposed to being an add-on, which we are now. Because being an add-on, you know, the, it's already working right, and we're just integrating ourselves into that as opposed to sort of creating the. But it sort of depends on where you are in life, what your ambitions are, how much time you want to dedicate to it, because, you know, being the platform and building out the infrastructure is enormous and that should not be underestimated. So, you know, that's sort of what the private equity firms are there to help with. But ultimately, if you're the first, you're going to be doing a, a lot of work. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, what's the private equity? How are they looking at this and why? Why plastic surgery? Because they never went there before. They went with derms. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? Like derms were just obvious to them. They had a lot of volume. They could com commoditize it. Like why? Why does plastic surgery look interesting to them now? David Kaufman, MD: Well, I think the other markets have proven to be successful and now I think they're moving into this space. I think they've been very successful in dermatology, certainly in dentistry. Gi. And I think that, you know, the world is now accepting that plastic surgery is just a normal part of life. Mm-hmm. And, you know, look at plastic surgeons. Not many of them run their businesses exceptionally well. And here's a chance for an equity group to get in there, inject a little capital and operations, and improve, improve profitability. It's a little bit of a beta test now because there haven't been too many plastic surgery groups that. Hit it big, but like, look at Air Sculpt, they're a, you know, I think there's 17 or 20 lipo center sites and they're valued in the 700 million. It's absurd. So, you know, I think it's, it's a real thing and the firms are interested. I think it, as more and more practices are acquired and aggregated and hopefully exited will prove a successful model and even create more. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I, I like to follow the money. That's kind of my thing. Sure. So, a plastic surgeon who's doing really well, but is so, tired of the running of the practice, they would buy in or the other way around, the PE would buy into them. Who's buying into whom? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: So, the, the, the cash flow was from the PE firm to a strategic partner to a practice or directly from the PE firm to. Plastic surgery practice, but understand, you're, you're basically selling some of your EBITDA to the private equity firm. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, it's not like, you know, there is transaction, there's, there's value being traded for cash, who decided what the value is? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: So, that's a good question. And if you look at how practices are valued mm-hmm. You look at what your EBITDA is, and as you mentioned, earnings before interest, taxes, and amortization. That's essentially what your annual profit is. Okay. You then take away from that what your ongoing salary is going to be. So, let's say I'm making $10 a year and I'm going to make $2 a year. The EBITDA that I'm selling is $8. Okay. So, then that EBITDA is multiplied by some multiplier, and that in the plastic surgery world could be probably as low as three or four to as high as maybe 10 if you've got a super robust practice. Mm-hmm. And that's called your. Total enterprise value. So, let's just say for ease of numbers, you've got eight of saleable EBITDA and your multiple is 10. Mm-hmm. Your total enterprise value is now $80. That's the value of your practice. Mm-hmm. Then that value is sort of parsed up into three parts. Those parts are the cash should close, the rollover equity, equity that we talked about before, and then there's sort of a middle grounds, which is. Earns. Mm-hmm. So, those are monies that are paid as long as your practice continues to perform and those levers can be moved up and down. Like the more rollover equity, you would be willing to put in, you might be able to squeak your multiple a little bit higher. Mm-hmm. You know, if you want a lot of cash on clothes, they're going to crank down in the multiple because, you know, there's more flight risk of you just leaving and leaving them high and dry with a practice that doesn't produce. But that's, you know, that's sort of a nutshell of how practices are. I think in general it's a very good idea to go out and get an outside quality of earnings evaluation so, they can actually look at your practice an expert can, and run the numbers so, that when you go to market, you know you're not going to market with some inflated or completely ridiculous estimation of your own. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do the private equity people, do they understand our industry or is it, one of my issues is although everyone says my business is different, we all say that my practice is different. But business is business for sure. But how much creativity do you still have on your own, like for marketing or branding? Like who are you now? Are you brand, are you still branded? Is. PE company branded. How's that working? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Yeah, so, that's a great question and I think it, again, it depends on who you work with. So, there's a company out there called a Phoenix, which I'm sure you're probably all, at least on the West coast familiar with. Mm-hmm. They brand their practices as the athe group of plastic surgeons. Mm-hmm. The one I'm with is different. We maintain our own branding, so, just like hotels, like you might stay at a, a Kimpton by Marriott. Mm-hmm. Well, my practice is my practice name. Part of the practice network or something like that. So, we allow, or we're allowed to maintain our own branding because I think we have a lot of brand equity in our area. We don't want to scrap that. Mm-hmm. But there is some co-branding with the parent company, so, that way, you know, someone takes a look, they, they understand that we are part of a bigger group. Catherine Maley, MBA: And then are they paying for the marketing efforts of everybody? How is that going? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Well, ultimately, since they're the owners of the company and all the money is theirs, both in terms of income and outflow. Mm-hmm. In theory they are, yes. But we still largely control what we're doing from a marketing standpoint. That's one of the things that we're working on collectively in terms of how to optimize our marketing. So, we now have a central VP of marketing trying to coordinate some of our efforts, look at be best practices, track the data, and see what's successful and hopeful. You know, disseminate best practices and try and minimize the ones that have historically not worked. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, they bring the, the value that they're bringing to you is like business people. They're bringing you the, the market, the VP of marketing, the VP of inventory, the v, like they're, they understand the, the numbers part of a practice. I just find this so, interesting. It's a lot of players involved. Like is it, is there like a board of directors? Yes. Or…? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Yeah, there is. And you know, most of us who have put our practices into this group have a seat on the board so, that we have some say in how things are done. Yeah. But you know, the goal. Taking a bunch of small practices and turning them into a big practice with economies of scale efficiencies and best practices across the platform with the goal of when it's time for you to exit. Catherine Maley, MBA: Because they don't need you there for a year. They need you to stay put. David Kaufman, MD: Right, right. So, in my particular deal, I have a few years of turnout. So, it's not like I got a big pot of cash and walk, I could walk away. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm, I'm tied to this both because I have financial ties, but also, I really want to see this through. Like, this is something that I think could be transformational within plastic surgery. Right. And may change the landscape. And I think if we do it well, it could be the model for, you know, many years to. You know, if you screw it up, then you know, it's just crash and burn and that's no good, but it's going to take some effort. And, you know, I'm, I'm committed as I believe the other people who have joined this group are committed. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you joined a good group with you know, I mean, Robert Singer is solid, you know, he's, but now like, like let's say he's getting older, you know, how, how do you step out of this if you need to or want to? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Yeah. So, in theory, after. Earnouts. Mm-hmm. I would still have equity in the overall company and if I wanted to work less, I could, because I would just earn less because I still have a salary based on production. But I would just write off into the sunset and, you know, hopefully our group will start a fellowship because we have these multiple locations for fellows to learn through multiple different surgeons and locations, how things are. Our hope then is to take those fellows and backfill the people that leave. We'll see how that works. Cause this is all very new and mostly conceptual. Mm-hmm. But it, I think there's something to be said for a, a fellowship that has five or six different practices to draw from, from in multiple different geographic locations. And then of course, you know, we'll be looking at them and hopefully they'll be looking at us. And if we find a match, if it's time for someone to leave or another practice is ready to bring on another associate, that will be a perfect person to quit in. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know, with the trends, the way they're going, you can't be a fellow with a million or two extra to invest in some practice you know, to buy somebody else's practice. So, that actually makes a lot of sense because those days it's not going to happen. Usually if they had one or 2 million, they'll just open their own place, typically. But if you let them get into a, something like this, I assume, They're walking in without an investment, maybe being, making an investment. However, that also holds them back from equity. They probably don't get equity for a while. So, is that also one of the points? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: So, certainly there's zero risk to onboarding and for a young surgeon who is right out of training. It's a great opportunity to both learn aesthetic surgery, because historically residency practice, the residencies have not been great at training in that regard. Mm-hmm. You know, at that time in your life, typical, typically people don't have a whole lot of money to buy a practice or buy a building or build an OR. Right. And then the goal is, you know, if a, a younger surgeon joins and over the course of the first few years shows promise or commitment, you know, Trying to craft some ways to create equity or at least phantom interests for you know, younger surgeons to keep them committed to the long-term success of the practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And then would you want more and more practices joining? Is that helpful to have that big economy, scales of economy, however, or economies to scale? However, is there a point of getting too big and getting lost in all of this and imploding? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Sure. Well, I think that the answer to that, Growth is always well usually desired. Mm-hmm. Certainly, we need to work out the kinks of onboarding so, that as PR new practices are integrated in, they're done in such a way that it's not disruptive to the practice, so, that they don't take a hit on the way in. I don't know what the exact right number is for a target to either, you know, sort of go up for a second offering or consider public. My sense is in the, you know, the 30 to 50 million of EBITDA, so, once you aggregate to that level, that big, that puts you on the radar of big PE firms or maybe even considering, you know, public offerings. Mm-hmm. But you know, we're not anywhere near that, but we're working in that drip general direct. Catherine Maley, MBA: I just thought of something for you to make this work, somebody like the centralizing has to know the numbers. Yes. And they have to consolidate and know they, they need data. Yes. Is everybody going to need to be under the same EMRs? Yes. Phone systems payment plan, all of that is, will all of that be consolidated essentially? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Well, we, we are already on the same EMR. Okay. Some of the practices have use of the MR than others. And that's one of the things that certainly the IT department will work on is bring everybody up to speed. So, there's similarity across platforms. I believe we're all running on the same accounting system. Oh, the same bill pay system. So, that's truly a centralized company with essentially, regional offices as opposed to just a bunch of people strung together on quick. Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. That would be confusing. David Kaufman, MD: Yeah. Well, they, they have a, in my opinion, at least from the feedback I've gotten from Kate, an exceptional chief financial officer and, you know, there's a, there's a lot to keep track of. There's a lot to keep track of for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is, has this been like a part-time job for you? A full-time job? What kind of time goes into it? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: Well, I would say that my lovely wife, Kate, it's been all consuming because she runs our practice and she's always made it. So, you know, I just have to operate and, you know, see patients and she takes care of making the machinery work around us. Mm. So, it's been an enormous undertaking on her part, for which I am deeply, deeply in depth. But no, it's, it's a you know, it's been a lot of. But I think we, I hope that we see the light at the ender of the tunnel, which is efficiencies that take a lot of the crap that she doesn't like to do off her plate. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And make them. Not everyone married as well as you. You know, others are really stuck in the middle of all of this drama that goes on in the office. And if you, I mean, most surgeons I talk to would like nothing more than to do surgery and nothing else, you know? Yeah. And not deal with this. So, this is a new option for those who are really looking for a way to not exit so, much as to just. Shift things. So, you're just a lot happier doing what you like to do, and I'm not bogged down with what you don't like to do. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending? David Kaufman, MD: You know, there's a lot of merit in what you just said and you know, I think there's, there's something, something there. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Kaufman, it is always a pleasure talking to you. If anybody wants to reach out to you, how would they do so? David Kaufman, MD: Sure. My cell phone is (650) 387-6066. Email works, david@thenaturalresult.com, or certainly you can find me on the internet. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, and his website is the natural results.com or is it one result? David Kaufman, MD: Singular. Singular. Catherine Maley, MBA: You only get one result. Yes. www.TheNaturalResult.com? Yes. All right. Thank you so, much. I really appreciate it. And let's see what happens. I mean, this really makes logical sense. It's the matter of, I just my 2 cents. Know your business partners. Intimately because you are going to be in a relationship with them for a very long time. Things can go sideways. Make sure you're with somebody who can negotiate and debate nicely without going to war. You know? I mean, what, what, what do you think, what, what, what, what would you be, what would be your advice to others who go into these kinds of partnerships? David Kaufman, MD: Well, I would say work with people that you generally like, because there will be difficult decisions that need to be make at some point in concessions that have to be made for both sides. And having someone that is a reasonable and has the big prize in mind, I think that's critical. So, we're at the, the, you know, the early stages of this and I'm very excited the way, see it, how it turns out. And I'll certainly keep you posted as, as things progress. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on outsourcing is trending. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Kaufman, you can reach out to his website at, www.TheNaturalResult.com. A big thanks to Dr. Kaufman for sharing his insights on the fact that outsourcing is trending. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Outsourcing is Trending — with David Kaufman, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #surgerypracticeoutsourcing #outsourcingistrending #trendsinoutsourcing | |||
| Reputation Management — with Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD (Ep.198) | 23 Mar 2023 | 00:46:12 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and reputation management. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today's episode is called "Reputation Management — with Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD". At the medical conferences I speak at, there's usually a talk about reputation management and how to keep %*@^ from hitting the fan and ruining your name. So, I invited one of the country's leading authorities on medical malpractice and reputation management to update you on how to stay out of trouble and keep your reputation as stellar as possible. Jeffrey Segal, MD, JD is a board-certified neurosurgeon, but he's also an attorney and partner at ByrdAdatto law firm. He's also a reputation management expert. Dr. Segal focuses on keeping doctors from being sued for frivolous reasons and to minimize the need for difficult reputation management. On this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast on reputation management, Dr. Segal and I talked about: How to protect, preserve and manage your reputation online How to spot trouble early so your reputation management take far less effort How to handle patients with mental health issues who can cause havoc with your reputation management and a lot more… Every surgeon who has done enough surgery has or will experience patients who become problems, so this episode gives you strategies to help with your reputation management. Visit the website of Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JDEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Reputation Management — with Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD (Ep.198)Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and reputation management. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant of plastic surgeons. To get them more patients, more profits and better reputation management. But today's talk is a little different. We've got a very special guest who's an expert at reputation management. His name is Dr. Jeffrey Segal. Now he's not only a board-certified neurosurgeon who trained at Baylor College of Medicine. He also just happens to have graduated from Concord Law School. So, he's also an attorney and he's also a partner at ByrdAdatto law firm, and a reputation management guru. So, Dr. Segal launched a company called Medical Justice in 2002, and Medical Justice is the physician-based organization focused on keeping doctors from being sued for frivolous reasons and to help with their reputation management. That's why he's on here. This is becoming more and more of an issue. So, Dr. Segal also founded eMerit to help doctors protect and preserve their reputations and teaches reputation management, particularly online. Now, Dr. Segal has established himself as one of the country's leading authorities on medical malpractice, online reputation, and reputation management, and I hear him talk at the meetings all the time. He's a really popular, he's got such a popular topic because it's a hot topic, and it probably always will be. So, Dr. Segal, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Hey, Catherine, thanks for allowing me to participate. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Just out of sheer curiosity, how does, how does one go from a neurosurgeon to an attorney and reputation management expert? Because that didn't take a couple minutes. That took years and years to become one, to then become a lawyer, and that took a whole lot of time to then become more entrepreneurial. What was that path like? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Well, it's interesting because I did not intend that to be the case, and it's like having that conversation with your parents and your wife, how that happened. In between, I was in biotechnology, so, I practiced as a neurosurgeon for a decade. Perfectly happy doing that. And then I had a son who became ill. He's better now, but I took a year off. We moved to North Carolina to seek services for him, and I became persuaded that a certain set of pharmaceutical compounds might help him. And in that process went to where they were on a shelf, university of North Carolina licenses, compounds, raised money, and started a biotechnology company. So, if. Knowing what I now know, I probably would not have done it, but we're able to move these compounds pretty far along from preclinical to phase two, get the company sold to a medical device company. By then, a number of years had gone by. Question was whether I can go back to practicing neurosurgery. I thought since so, many years had gone by, it'd be a challenge to per, you know, to reasonably persuade a passion to go under the knife, even though I'm arrogant enough to believe I could do it. I'm not sure I had these, the persuasive skills to do that. So, I formed medical justice and got a law degree along the way. So, in some sense you could just say, I'm confused. Another sense you can say I'm a lifelong student. Catherine Maley, MBA: You're probably both, right? So, the thing about frivolous lawsuits and subpar reputation management: How did that come about? Because you wouldn't have had that issue as a neurosurgeon, but you certainly would as a solo practitioner, plastic surgeon. So, how did you segue into that world? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah, it's a great question. I actually did have it happen to me as a neurosurgeon. Oh. And I was sued one time for what I perceived to be a frivolous reason. The single expert who testified against me had actually been expelled previously from our professional society, the American Association of Neurological Surgeons. Why? Because he was delivering frivolous testimony. Yet, even though he'd been booted out of our professional society, there he was on the circuit making a very handsome living testifying, saying one thing on one coast, saying the exact opposite on another coast, but his core competence, He had good communication skills. He could speak well to a jury, so, he was in demand. In any event, I, he had never seen or done the case at issue, but it didn't stop him from running his mouth. The case was dismissed about two weeks before trial. I never felt as if I lost won anything. I just felt as if I lost less and I thought there has to be a better way. So, we started medical justice as a way of holding proponents of these frivolous lawsuits accountable. In one sense, what do we do? We sue lawyers that inappropriately sue doctors. And more broadly, over time, we've expanded our mission to deal with all types of conflicts. Goal is to deescalate a conflict. I mean, by the time people get to lawyers. There's a lot of conflict in the background. And there are, and in fact, this is probably a good segue to talk about, well, what kind of conflicts are there, what types of, what types of Sabre rattling takes place and well, all types. The, it typically gets started with yelling, screaming, or nasty emails. Somebody doesn't, somebody says they don't like how they were treated, for example, that's the lowest level. Or they could put a nasty note on the internet. They can file a complaint to the Board of Medicine. All of that requires no effort whatsoever. They could sue you in small claims court. They could hire a lawyer to send a threatening demand letter or they can sue you. So, a gazillion ways for a conflict to take place. That's the bad news. The good news is there are ways, if you are attentive, To the process to head this off at the past before there's litigation, before there's a nasty note on the internet before they even start yelling at you. There are plenty of ways to identify trouble before it shows up at your door and avoid this before it creates a headache. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you being a cosmetic patient myself and just, and just being in this industry for decades, I have noticed that a lot could have happened at the beginning to prevent the drama happening at the end. And let's just talk about patient selection, in terms of reputation management. I know so, many surgeons, and I don't know if it's arrogance or just. Whatever, but they don't want to say no to, to the surgical procedure or the money or whatever, and they always think they're going to be able to handle it. Even if staff is saying, I don't know about this one, I'm not feeling good about that. Can we just start there? Like, what? What can they do to just cut it off at the beginning? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah, so, the first thing is to select your patients carefully. It's a cash pay business. There's this tendency to want to get everybody through the door. Nobody will ever have on their epitaph. I wish I had done one more patient that that epitaph does not exist on a gravestone. So, be. There are a handful of patients you not only should say no to, you must say no to. They're not great candidates for surgery. You may believe they have a cosmetic problem or an aesthetic problem that you can solve, but that's not their underlying problem. If a patient comes in there and says, Hey, look, I just want to take three or four years off. I just want to feel better. That's probably a good candidate for a procedure. If a patient comes in and says they're struggling to put food on the table and a roof over their head and they're struggling financially, or if they believe that the procedure will shave off 30 years, or if the procedure will save their marriage. Not a great candidate. Those are people who have expectations that cannot be managed. You cannot manage those expectations. The best thing to do is to say no. And the other thing is that there are. Cash pay businesses where patient will have a particular budget and you say, I can't do that for you, but I can do something at 10% of that cost. But you know, in your heart of hearts, it's not really going to do what the patient wants. They'll be back, they'll believe, they will have believed that somehow, they're getting a permanent solution when they're only getting a four-week solution. Expectations aren't managed, just don't do it. I'm telling you that the amount of extra revenue that you get for that one patient will pale, pale in comparison to the headache that you will experience. And I've often said that in with the benefit of hindsight, if you had known that this particular patient would cause this much agony in your life, would you have paid them? Would you have given them a check in advance of seeing you to stay out of your practice? Hundred percent of practices say yes, I would've paid them. I'm still waiting for the one to say no. I probably would not have paid them to stay away. No, they, they will, they will tear your soul out and they'll rip out. You know, your, you know your desire to practice medicine right at your bone marrow. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have a professional way to tell a patient No, because I have found these patients are still going to slam you online when you say no, you know, is there a w the right way to do it without them giving you a bad review about it? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Maybe, I think I, I'm going to say upfront that even if, first of all, you should be capturing feedback from patients so, that if you get the inevitable bad review, it's not a showstopper, it's not going to destroy your practice. In fact, I will argue having an occasional negative review amongst a C of positive reviews is actually a good thing. I think it's actually better than having a hundred percent positive reviews. Why? Because it demonstrates authenticity, credibility, et cetera. If you have a hundred percent five-star reviews, let's say you have 500 five-star reviews and just says, great doctor, love you, you know, there's no meat to the review it. It looks like marketing material, but having an occasional negative reflects reality. The public knows you cannot make everybody happy. The Ritz Carlton doesn't make everyone happy. The public wants to see how you can solve a problem. So, if you have an unhappy patient and you've at least work to try to solve their problem, you can tele telegraph that in a HIPAA compliant way. Good for you. I think you're better off now when you get that negative review. You don't feel like sending flowers and chocolate to that patient. Of course, but you should. You probably should. Only because I think holistically it's, it's helping you. But anyway, back to your very good question. How do you gently. Give somebody the boot, if you will, you know, without being offensive. And I think the way to do it is to validate them. Say, look I'm not disagreeing with your, you know, with your treatment plan, what you're requesting. I just do not believe I will be able to meet your expectations. I'm not suggesting no one will be able to meet your expectations. I just don't believe that I can meet them. And I. I just want you to be happy. I want you to be happy, and in doing so, I don't think it would be a good idea for me to take your money, ultimately go through a procedure and you not be satisfied or happy. Now, that will work with most people. There are, there's a small subset of patients who do not have a core aesthetic problem. They have a mental health problem. Mental health problem may be something like body dysmorphic disorder, just to give this a, a name and there it's a body image problem. It doesn't matter what they see in a mirror. They don't. They experience a different image. And when you operate on somebody with body Dysmorphic disorder or B D D, you're actually doing them a disservice. I mean, arguably it's malpractice, but I would just say, you know, more, more charitably, you're doing them a disservice. And the proper thing to do is to refer them to a healthcare professional, mental health professional who deals with body image problems. As an aesthetic practitioner, you do what you know how to do. But let's say for example, a patient came in there and they had, they had a kidney stone, or say they had chest pain. You'd send them to a urologist for the kidney stone. You'd send them to a cardiologist for chest pain. You would properly refer. Then if you can identify, if you can make a presumptive diagnosis of something like B D. D. Having a preexisting relationship with a mental health professional that you can gently pass the baton over to for additional screening. You're doing them a favor. And in some sense, you could say, I'm not saying no forever. I'm just saying no for now. I just want you to be screened and be evaluated by somebody that I know, somebody that I trust, and they can give you a clearance. But if you've got a good screening tool for b d d, being able to gently. Get them referred to the proper individual in many senseen. I mean, you were really doing them a favor. Will they write you a bad review? Typically, they will not. Can I promise? They will never write a bad review. No, I can't. But I, I can tell you that if you, you do the right thing most of the time on balance, you will be better off than operating on that passion or just kicking them out the door and saying, I can't help you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Just good luck with that. But now that we have social media, I see every day I, I don't know if it's B, d, d or whatever you want to call it, but the outrageous big boobs, big butt, little waist, huge lips. Is that b d, d or is that just, what is that? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: You tell me. Yeah, so, I, I'd have to plead ignorance there. I'm in North Carolina. I don't see it as frequently as perhaps you do on the West Coast, but, but you know, I've been to Miami and I've definitely seen it there and I can, I can tell a trend and every three or four years the trend changes so, that it's something else. I think you just got to do what you do. Okay. If, if the patient wants something that is outrageous, they'll eventually get it done. There's always somebody who will do it. Even remember Michael Jackson was able to find a doctor to put him to sleep at night and ultimately put him to sleep permanently. But you don't have to be that. You don't have to be Michael Jackson's doctor. You, you, you just do good work., you'll have a good practice. Don't feel compelled to have to do outrageous things just to, just to keep the lights on. Most people are reasonable. I, I know sometimes it's hard to believe that, but most people are reasonable and want reasonable things. And if somebody's pushing the envelope to get you to do things that you're not comfortable, things that you think are not within the standard of care, just say no. Because if you, if you do say yes, sooner or later, you're going to get burned. I, I, is it b d, d? I don't know, but I know it's not something that I know that most practitioners should stay away from. Let's just talk about, you know you know, putting in breast implants that are ginormous. Okay. It's possible that there will never be a complication associated with that, but it's just physics. You're putting in a, a mass under the skin or under the muscle. And if the skin or muscle has to stretch, Beyond what it's capable of doing, and it outstrips its blood supply. I can tell you with a hundred percent certainty what's going to happen, that the skin is going to slough off, the implant will be exposed and it's going to get infected, and then the implants are going to need to be removed. Now, they may not have liked their breasts beforehand, but I can assure you they're not going to like having a giant gaping hole in their breast without any mass in it. I think to, to me, that's a worse outcome. But all you can do is what you can do. You can try and persuade them based on the best evidence and your judgment. And if you say no, maybe they'll go somewhere to say yes. But I, I, I know that you can't beat physics a hundred percent of the time. That much I'm confident of. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what about the patients who schedule surgery, put down the deposit, then change their minds, cancel the surgery. Now they want their deposit back. The date can't be filled, or they're scrambling to try to fill that date. Who I realize that's the patient's problem, you know, they caused that. However, what's the best way to handle that? Because of this online situation. You know, they'll, they'll be online saying, I can't get my money back. The guy stole my money. How do you handle that when a patient reneges on what they've… How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: This is a challenge, and I have changed my opinion on this over time. If you had asked me 15 years ago, I would say a deal is a deal. You basically stuck your deposit down. That's. I scheduled you for surgery. I wasn't guaranteeing you an operation. I was guaranteeing you a slot on the schedule, and I honored my end of the bargain. I'm keeping the money. So, that was Jeff Segal me speaking 15 years ago. I've changed my mind. I've changed my mind over time because here's what I think happens. I think if you're dealing with a significant sum of money here, you're putting the patient in a bind. The bind being that. Are being forced to choose between Forfeit Inc. A large amount of money. Let's say it's $10,000 just to make this a round number or have a procedure. They don't want to have, have a procedure. They don't, an elective procedure they don't want to have. And what I've seen over time is that if you push them into that situation, They'll ultimately have the procedure. They're not going to forfeit the money, but that's when the fireworks begin. They'll have the procedure. You will have done what you, what you, you know what you said you would do. You honored your end of the bargain. Then they're going to. Tell you how horrible you did the job. They don't believe it, but they're going to tell you how horrible a job was and they're going to demand their money back. They're going to demand their money back or slam you on the internet. So, as unsavory as it is to just swallow hard and let them go, I would probably most of the time give them their money back. Now, I think it depends on the situation. If it's, if the patient has a good reason for. For canceling the procedure and if they gave you adequate advanced notice and you could potentially fill the slot. I'm saying just do the, be good, be a nice person and give it back, particularly if you can fill the slot. Okay. Because really you haven't been injured, you haven't been harmed, and you're just trying to be nice and do the right thing. If they have a medical event or a life event that took. And it looks like they really do want the surgery down the road. Just ask them gently, you know, would you like to postpone this at no charge? And we'll do this when the dust is settled. You know, it sounds like you're going through a lot of life stressors right now. This is an entirely elective procedure. You don't have to have it done. But if you think you want to have it done, we'll just go ahead and, you know, keep your funds you know, stored away and we'll, you know, we won't raise our rate for you because typically we will. Raise rates, you know, twice a year, once a year, and we'll honor our end of the bargain and flesh that out. But if they basically just say, look, it's the day before the surgery I'm canceling. Do I have a reason? No, I have no reason. I just don't want it. What don't you understand about that? And that's a nasty individual. Okay. And do you really want that as your patient? I mean, I, I think you're probably better off not operating on that individual and just flipping it around and. Giving them the cash back. I mean, to me, deposits are mostly there to get people to commit to a date and it serves its purpose. It gets people, it puts something on a calendar. So, when I say I'm going to, I plan on going to Europe, to me that's a wish. It, it has no substance whatsoever. Once I stick that on the calendar, that baby's real, I'm going, I know, I'm going ticket. Yeah. Once you buy an airline ticket, it's real. Now, you know, if I, I can change my mind and I can cancel the flight as, as I just did for my wife the other day. So, now she's got x number of months to go ahead and use those dollars for something else. But I mean, over time we've hotels and airlines have kind of figured out how to find that nice balance between the two, at least holistically. You may get screwed on a particular patient, but. In aggregate, I think you'll be better off by adopting that philosophy. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, here's another thing that can go sideways. You've had your surgery and now you as a patient, you get this bill and it's for another thousand dollars for or, and anesthesia because the doctor took longer than expected. I personally, Thought, why is that my problem? Like, I'm the patient, he's the expert. Why am I paying for him to take longer than he said he was going to? Do you have a comment on that? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah. I don't disagree with that. With your interpretation of that, I mean, look, in the elective space people are looking for. One shop pricing, they're not looking for surprises. If it's an insurance world, it's not really your money. I mean, let Blue Cross manage that, not my problem. And once you've hit your deductible, it's just break out the champagne, all of everything done, you know? But I mean, if, if indeed there's going to be extra fees related to taking more time, Then the rational argument is, well, do I get money back if the surgeon was fast, if the surgeon was faster and only took half as much time, because I was simple, do I get a refund? And we know the answer to that. The answer is that a big no. So, if I, I think the proper way to do it is to try and work with facilities and other professionals who are willing to accept fixed. With the understanding is that you are already arbitraging this, you have more knowledge than the patient and you're in aggregate. You're going to come out ahead. Mm-hmm., if you basically say, I'm going to accept the risk of the case going longer, I'm just going to eat it. But you know in your heart of hearts that you're benefiting by the case going. If you could stuff in more cases good for you, you, you've actually benefit. So, I, I think barring extremely unusual circumstances, you're probably better off eliminating surprises to patients. Nobody likes a surprise. I know. I don't like a surprise, you know, when I get a letter from the I r s, if it doesn't have a check in there for me, I'm, I'm not happy. That's an un, that's an ugly surprise. And even if I do get a check and I'm not expecting it, that's also an ugly surprise because if you cash that check, You're going to get hosed a year from now. So, my, my larger point is try to eliminate surprises for those in the cash pay business and you'll eliminate future headaches for yourself. Oh, and let me tell you another thing. Avoid billing patients for $24 and, and 32 cents. You know, it just pisses people off Now. Particularly if they're not expecting it. I've seen people sent to collections for under $25. I don't get that. I don't get it because if the patient is unhappy or suffered a complication and they, they just ate it and they learn to live with it, that's the, that's the one thing that rubs salt in their wound. It's, it's a, it's an unforced error. You don't need to do it. If you've got a $24 bill with a hangover, write it. Just write it off. Catherine Maley, MBA: Here's the next surprise that comes up. The patient has their procedure. They're not happy with their result. The doctor agrees and says I'll; I'll do a tweak in the office if possible. Mm-hmm., if he can't, he says, I'll, we'll go back to surgery, but you're paying the OR and anesthesia and I, I will forfeit my feet again. The patient says, why am I paying? It's, you know, you are the expert, you did it. You can see there's a problem. And I know that's murky because sometimes the doctor can't see there's a problem. But oftentimes there really is. I mean, he did he, he does need some kind of revision to be made. How, how tricky is that? Or is it more black and white than it seems? Because I, as me, as a patient, if I see something's wrong, I mean, but I'm reasonable too. What if it's a reason? Revision? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah. So, the answer, I'm going to give you a lawyerly answer. Okay? It depends. Every, every doctor is different. Every patient is different. Right? Here, I would say if you're going to do a revision procedure where you waive your professional fee, then. You do want to spell out in advance who is responsible for anesthesia and the facility. Okay. And try that. That's a trial balloon. See how it goes. If the patient thinks that's reasonable, they'll sign off on it. Get them to sign off on it. Get them to say, here's the deal. The deal is this. And most of the time they'll say yes, but not always. Then you got to recognize who is that individual that is going to need something more just to solve their problem. Do. Would I roll over? I probably, I might, I might. I'm actually thinking about myself at that point. I'm thinking about do I want to go to World War III over a modest amount? And. Or do I, will I eat some of that fee even partly because I already received a large amount of money from them in the first place. Now is it as much? No. But is this really going to change my financial statement at the end of the year? No, it's really not. And if I'm already psychically invested in this particular case, and it's starting to raise my blood pressure at this stage of my life, I'm going to opt to decrease my blood pressure. It's not going to bother me One. But that's me. I, again, if you had asked me 20 years ago, I would've given you a completely different answer. I would've gone to war. Catherine Maley, MBA: The, the reason patients will go online, typically, I'll just say in general because I talk to them all the time, is because nobody fixed their problem. They had a problem, nobody heard them or listened to them or did anything about it. How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Repeat what you just said. That's the most important point of this conversation. They did not feel listened to. They didn't feel listened to. Listen to them. If you listen to them, they'll give you the answer still. Sir William Osler said, the patient will deliver the diagnosis to you, and here it's the same thing. It's a communication issue. If you stop talking for a moment and you start listening, they'll tell you their perception of what they believe the problem is, then you've got a question, can you solve their problems? In my estimation, Once you've listened to them, you've already, you've, you're 90% of the way there to solving their problem. You may have to go a little bit more and some problems cannot be solved. I, I don't, I agree. Not every problem can be solved, but where else do you get 90% success rate? I think that's pretty good that those are pretty good odds. Catherine Maley, MBA: When you do know it's not your best work and the patient knows that too, like everyone knows that but you don't want to do it again. You're, you're kind of done with it. What is the easiest way to detangle? I personally, I like the refund idea, the one with, and you agree not to disparage me? Yeah. In any way, shape, or form. Is that still the best way to handle that? Or what is your approach? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Couple ways to do that. That to me is tried and true, meaning that patients unhappy. It may not be your best work. It could have been the patient, you know, biology. Biology, and it is what it is. But being open to the idea in the cash pay field of giving the patient their money back. You give, you, get, you give, you get. So, what do you want from the patient? I want a release. I want two things. No legal mischief, no online, mechi. 99% of the time, they think that's a pretty good deal. And they'll say yes, and you become a beneficiary of that too. And the reason I say you become a beneficiary if you're seeing a patient 12 times post-op and you see the name on the schedule and your sphincter tightens up because of your nose coming in during the day. That eats into your longevity, you're going to live a few minutes less the more, more of those experiences that you have. So, in, in a sense, you're paying for longevity and we, I mean, to me, that's the cheapest way to live longer and live well longer. So, yes, you give, you get, it's got to be a nice crisp release. And a good release is typically five pages long and, and we, we have those available. Something you can also. If you could potentially have the patient seen by a colleague of yours that you trust. If you think the patient is not malignant and they're a reasonable human being, but you believe, or both of you believe that the trust that is necessary in a good doctor-patient relationship is gone, you can offer to say, look, I know that our relationship. As good as it could or should be. But I'm open to sending you to somebody that I trust and I'm hoping you'll trust him or her too. And I, I can get you on their schedule, you know, to be seen as s a P. That often also helped. Now, they may say, any friend of yours is an enemy of mine, and they don't want to see that person. But by and large, you. You're coming up with potential solutions, you're solving a problem here. Can always fall back and giving the money back. But sometimes if you can kind of keep it in the fold with people that you know and trust every, you become a beneficiary of that, and hopefully it solves their problem and they're happy to. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what about arbitration? Because I think egos get involved and it gets overblown and a third party that could smooth things out makes sense to me. When do you, how does all that work? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: The arbitration? Okay. So, there are a couple ways to think about this. One is, I'll call it informal mediation and then arbitration. Let me explain the difference. So, sometimes the love is lost that the doctor and patient really do not want to talk to each other any longer. They don't like each other. It's a bad marriage and they need to divorce, but they need to separate amicably. So, sometimes hiring an attorney like me, because I will do this, I will reach out to the patient. I'm not formally mediating. I do represent the doctor, and I do tell them that, but I'm a person who will actually listened and validate what is obvious. I mean, if a patient had an infection and they had an unexpected complication, I'll just acknowledge the obvious they're unhappy with how this turned out. Why would, why wouldn't, why would they be happy with that? I mean, it makes no sense to, to perceive otherwise, and hopefully we can negotiate a detant a way out. Perhaps how to give the patient summer all of their money back. Or we even had it where the doctor will donate to a charity so, that something good comes out of this instead. So, there are a thousand ways to come to an amicable resolution. So, that's that one bucket. The other bucket, arbitration is more formal. Arbitration is an alternative to court. Arbitration is alternative to court. So, why do I like arbitration? A court is, so, what is arbitration? Arbitration is. The sides agree to resolve their dispute informally in a private setting, typically with a retired judge, and it'll be private and binding. It'll be private and binding. So, why do I like that? Well, to resolve a case in the normal system in a court, it's public. Everybody can see it. They can read everything. And when you're dealing with an aesthetic case, I mean everybody benefits by this being private, at least I think they do. It's faster, typically because it's less formal, typically costs less, not always, but typically it's less expensive to go through. And it's binding, meaning that you can't appeal it. So, when the decisions in the decision's in with court, you never know when it ends because you can certainly appeal it and there could be no end to this stuff, at least, you know, no conceivable and to the process. So, I'm a big fan of arbitration and while I, it clearly benefits the physician, the doctor, the provider. I also think it benefits the patient. I think everybody benefits from this. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's say the patient wants to, let's just talk about reviews, because reviews are going to be the being of every plastic surgeon's existence. And I, I feel for them because nowhere else on the planet can you complain about somebody with no recourse at all. And the doctor. You haven't? I don't know. It's just, it's so, unfair. Because most of the time the surgeon is not, their intent is fine. They have no ill intent. And you're getting bashed online for things you can't fix. You can't get it down. You can't. Although just recently on the West coast there's a federal lawsuit against a surgeon who was filling around with the reviews. And I hear this a. Either they're having their staff write good reviews or bad reviews for the competitors, or they're paying right the reviews for all unnecessary… How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Here's the deal. Here's how I would do it. Look, if you're a high performing practice doing great work, there are ways to get honest reviews and they're mostly going to be positive from your patients. But don't filter reviews. It's called review getting. Have as many patients as you're possible, participate in the process, have it so, that it's done at the point of service. I'm making a plug. Our organization does this stuff with the merit. We're not the only one that does it. But aggregating reviews from your patients, not filtering them, not getting them, you will be perceived for the most part, for what you are as long as you get them up there. You will get an occasional negative review. It's inevitable everybody gets it. As I told you earlier, having an occasional negative review is actually better than no negative reviews as much as you. Catherine Maley, MBA: I tell doctors this all the time. I say your three hundred and thirty-six five-star reviews. Is so, inauthentic. I wouldn't trust that at all. How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: So, plus, who's going to read 336 reviews? People read 10, 15 reviews. They may ask to read the lowest one. Great, get to the lowest one, and then see if there's a HIPAA compliant response. Did the doctor or the provider take the high ground? Did they try to solve a problem? Do they look to be reasonable? Why the patient is trying to identify if they become the complainer, will their problem be solved? And that's all they're looking for. They're looking for insurance or reassurance and typically it's, you can provide it, you can solve that problem. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well a lot of times too because we patients, we love to look at the one-star review and see what happened. And a lot of times that one star is so, chaotic you can tell it's not a balanced. Person who's writing that review. So, that's handy. But otherwise, if the reviews are just, he made me wait forever like, I hope that's your worst review. Like, he was so, busy. He, you know, I got two minutes with him. Like, that's a, that's still a really good review. How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: It is because how does it get positioned? So, if he made me wait, it means, look, I spent as much time as needed with a particular patient and after the patient before. Had a crisis or had additional questions. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I gave them extra time, just like I'll give to you. If you become that patient, you turn a negative into a positive. If You know, if they say you only spent 10 minutes or not enough time, you go the, the, the, the subtext is that you're so, many people want you, you're in demand. The public must know how great you are. So, not all of these are really bad. I think the things that are manageable, if there are money issues, you just. Put down a statement, which is our patients sign off on the expected amount they will pay in advance. And if there's if there's a disagreement, they'd they need to do little more than come to our office and we'll fix it. I mean, it's, it's the type of thing. If it's in writing, you're just honoring what's in writing. It is what it is. I think if they're just unhappy, and I said, Segal's a butcher. Yeah. There's only so, much you can do with that, but. You know, if the patient, for example, had an infection you turn a negative into a positive, you say something to the effect of the infection rate for this particular procedure is, 2%. In our practice it's 1%, so, it's less than the national average. However, patients are not statistics. A patient either experiences an infection or doesn't, a hundred percent or 0%, but regardless, we'll stand by our patients and try and fix them until they're satisfied, something like that. And so, what have you done with that? You're basically. Acknowledging the obvious that infections do happen, that in your practice it's lower than the national average. And number three, you'll do your best to try and make it right. That's per that's a great answer, by the way. And by the way, There's no violation of HIPAA in the way I just described it. Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. You know the big ones that end up usually on TV or something, it's when the doctor didn't respond they told them they'll be fine. We'll they'll be fine. Just get some rest and days go by and then it becomes a very big issue. So, a lot of this can be prevented, but what's the, what's the most frivolous and the least frivolous? Do you have any like, like extreme example? How does this tie in with reputation management? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Oh my God, for the most frivolous, there's so, much attention to that. My, here's my favorite case with the frivolous lawsuit, and it's not an aesthetic case. Okay. But hopefully you'll bear with me. So, a. I believe in this case it was a urologist and a small town performed a vasectomy on a particular patient. And a year later, the patient's wife became pregnant. Okay? A year later, the patient's wife became pregnant. The male comes back and is livid, is saying that the vasectomy didn't work. Now, by the way, the postoperative sperm count was zero, and in rare cases it does happen where the, the vast deference, which is tied off and cut. Come back together. It, it does happen. But that's not what happened here. What happened here is that they lived in a small town and everybody knew that the patient's wife who got pregnant had a lover on the side. So, this was a lawsuit, and until they were able to get a paternity test to demonstrate it wasn't his child. This was a, this was a lawsuit and I would argue a frivolous lawsuit. So, that's one of my favorite cases. I, I typically ask the audience if they have a hypothesis as to how this might have happened. You know, when the. Patient's wife became pregnant after he had a vasectomy. Is there a hypothesis as to how this could potentially have happened? I can't believe she let it go that far. Oh, I know. and it was a small town and basically the doctor said to everybody in the town who knew she was seeing, you know, there was no mystery here. And we, but they, I guess the patient, the husband was the last to know here in terms of. Least frivolous cases. Look, if a patient has a complication, that's an unexpected outcome for them. And to them, that's a big deal. I think one thing to pay attention to is this, that much of the aesthetic world is cash pay. And if you've got a Blue Cross policy, they exclude cosmetic procedures. So, what happens if the patient ends up getting a local infection? What if the patient gets a local hematoma? It depends. Blue Cross may not pick up the tab for that. So, if the patient has an urgent problem goes to the er, they may or may not pick up a tab. I will tell you we had one client. I would say this wasn't pretty decent outcome. The patient was operated on, I think in Southern California and then went up to Washington State and developed post-op day number three, four, developed a hematoma, breast hematoma. And so, the doctor says, look, just go to the er, just get it taken care of. She goes to the ER, phone call, doctor comes in, finds a hematoma, removes it done under general anesthesia. Blue Cross would not pay for it. They basically said, this is a complication of a procedure that we don't. We're not covering it. But interestingly enough, this the anesthesiologist or the surgeon did a pregnancy test on the patient just to dot all their eyes and cross the T's and to everybody's shock, it was positive. So, the patient was pregnant I guess newly pregnant at the time she was going to be put to sleep. So, the argument that we made was. Because they wouldn't pay the anesthesia bill. So, the argument was that, well, look, they weren't just taking care of mom, they were taking care of the baby. Anesthesiologists were taking care of the embryo or the fetus, and they accepted that appeal. So, they, they bought it, meaning that there are ways to do it. And in addition, if the patient has a systemic illness like sepsis or a pneumothorax, Something that's potentially life-threatening. Typically, on appeal, they will pay for it. But be careful. If somebody has just a local infection and they are sent to the ER and now the I C U and they've got tens of thousands of dollars, this could be a potential challenge. So, I, I tell people, look, if people are spending their last. On a particular procedure and they truly don't have the resources to weather a potential storm, just be careful because they're going to be looking you to make that payment. You know, if they can't, otherwise they'll have to file for bankruptcy. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Well, we're going to wrap it up. I don't know how you're a lawyer. I was going to be a lawyer for about a minute and I realized how negative it all is. Like you have to live in that mindset of what could go wrong. And I didn't. So, I went into marketing instead. I thought that was a lot more positive and fun. But good, you know, you're probably doing God's work there. So, good for you. Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: I try to maintain a sunny disposition. So, my, my feeling broadly is that I'm here to solve a problem. Not to say no. Good for you. I typically say my feeling is ye, so, I, I have two ways of saying something. I could say no because, or yes. If no, because, or yes. If I try to say yes, if more often than not. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you though. Good mindset. So, how can others get ahold of you if they do have a little issue and they'd like your 2 cents out? Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: I'll give you my email address, so, it's jsegal@medicaljustice.com and my office phone number is (336) 691-1286, and you can just look us up. at medicaljustice.com. It's one-word medicaljustice.com. We've been at this now for over two decades. Every time I think we've seen it all, I'm proven wrong, but we have worked with over 11,000 practices across the country over two decades, and lots of problems to solve. Lots of conflicts, but the good news is most of the time things go smooth. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's all. That's a lot of problems to solve there. 11,000. Holy cow. But thank you so, much. I appreciate your time, and I will see you at a conference coming up soon, I'm sure. And everybody, thanks for joining us. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and share this with your staff and colleagues and anyone else who's interested in the frivolous lawsuits because they're going to happen. They're just going to happen, period. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on reputation management. If you've got any questions or feedback for Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD, you can reach out to his website at, www.ByrdAdatto.com. A big thanks to Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD for sharing his tips on reputation management. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Reputation Management — with Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #reputationmanagement #manageyourreputation #plasticsurgeonreputation | |||
| Think Your Way to Success (Ep.197) | 18 Mar 2023 | 00:11:05 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to think your way to success. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Think Your Way to Success". Every single thing ever invented began as a thought…
And, as an aside, what's really trippy is the ideas for those things and others, like the iPhone, kindle, and social media were always there, but nobody thought them up yet. Look at what's happened to the aesthetic industry….several different neurotoxins have been introduced, lots of different fillers and the technical advancements keep on coming! It all starts with a thought so for this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talk about why thinking is an overlooked skill, why it's important and I give you strategies how to think constructively. I "think" you will get a lot out of this ;-) P.S. If you know it's time to invest in you, your practice, and your future, please check this out: Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Think Your Way to SuccessCatherine Maley, MBA: Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice. From author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice, business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA. Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing, and how to think your way to success. Plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits; as well as coach on how to think your way to success. Today's podcast episode is called "Think Your Way to Success". So, while consulting with plastic surgeons since year 2000 and interviewing them on my Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I have found the most successful think differently. And the good news is it can be learned. So good thinking is a skill worth practicing. It can generate revenue. Solve problems and create opportunities. It really can change your life. However, it's different thinking than the kind you did to become a surgeon. Your training was based on science and specific techniques taught by others before you. Now, this structured thinking was crucial to you becoming a great surgeon, but not so helpful. When trying to become a successful business person. So, you need to think differently when you run a practice, lead a team, manage the business, and compete in a crowded marketplace. But have you ever heard the saying; thinking is hard work if you want to think your way to success. That's why so few do it, So when you take the time to become a better thinker, you are investing in yourself. So, I'm going to give you 11 strategies to help you become a much better think. Here's number one, feed your mind with good stuff. So good ideas don't typically just happen. You search for them to get the mind juices flowing so you find good ideas by reading books, reviewing trade magazines, listening to podcasts like this one, and spending time with other good thinkers to expose yourself to thoughts you haven't thought before, but ideas come and go quickly. So, you want to jot them down immediately in order to think your way to success. Keep paper in pen handy, or add ideas that come up to your iPhone notes. Now, I personally get lots of ideas when I'm walking my dog and listening to podcasts. So, I text them to myself and then I transfer them to my file of ideas that I refer to. Now, here's number two on how to think your way to success. Schedule it. Life will keep you focused on the busyness of your day, so there's no time to stop and think unless you make the time. So, block the time on your calendar just like you do for new patient consultations. That's how important this is. This can be. One hour per week, one day per month, or a couple of days per year. Grab a pen and paper, find a quiet place with no distractions, and then ask yourself really good questions to get the ideas flowing. For example, you could ask, how can I increase my revenues without working harder? Or how can I enjoy managing staff and building a more productive culture? Or what skills could or should I learn to help me grow my practice? Now here's number three on how to think your way to success. Find your thinking place. Everyone is different. So, notice where you are and what you're doing when the best ideas come to you. It can be in the shower, the car, the park, while you're jogging or flying or cooking or falling asleep or whatever. Now just go to these thinking places more often, and your mind will condition itself to think of more ideas more often. It's that simple. Now, here's number 4 on how to think your way to success. Journal for more clarity. If you like me, find it challenging to sit quietly and wait for thoughts to come to you. Here's a strategy I've used for years, so I have a folder on my desktop called notes and they're labeled by each year. Now I ask myself a question. I set the timer for 10 or 20 minutes, and then I just type, and frankly, I type faster than I hand write, so this works better for me. So, at first, I'm just kind of typing and babbling, but then my brain starts to slow down and focus and it starts opening up, and the babble turns into thoughts. And some of those thoughts turn into an idea. Now most just clear my mind, so I feel better getting certain thoughts off. But I've gotten some of my best ideas that have grown legs and made me money. So, you might want to give this a try to think your way to success. Now here's number five on how to think your way to success. Share if your idea affects anyone else. Think it through before sharing. So, ask yourself., if you believe it has merit and you have confidence in it, that it could make a difference. If so, present it to others to get their insights and feedback. Sometimes though, when said aloud and discussed, you realize it's not that great of an idea after all. But other times, the feedback you get back grows the idea to something worth pursuing and getting excited about to help you think your way to success. Here's number six on how to think your way to success: Take action immediately. A thought is just a thought until it's executed to think your way to success. So, ideas come and go on how to think your way to success. So, if you have a good one, immediately act on it to keep it alive. For example, you think of a good idea from pondering the questions above, and that is to hire a patient liaison whose primary responsibility is to follow up on the leads coming in, so you take the next step. And let's say that is to have your office manager write and place an ad for this patient liaison. Now, if you need help with that, like how to execute it, you can get all those details about how to hire from visiting www.cosmeticpracticevault.com. Now, in the vault, I lay out exactly how you find the right person, how you train and motivate them, and then how you hold them accountable. Just saying. Now here's number 7 on how to think your way to success Thinking is a learned skill. Becoming a good thinker is a discipline that you can get really good at By practicing. Just open your mind, be curious, ask why, and how. A whole lot more often, such as, why do we do this task? Or how could we do it better? Or could we do something else instead that is faster, cheaper, easier, or more. Now here's number eight on how to think your way to success: Think big picture. It's so easy to get caught up in the minute details versus the overall bigger picture when thinking your way to success. An example would be you reminding your staff regularly that customer service. Is more important than double booking and making patients wait. Instead, you figure out how to avoid no-shows in the first place so you don't have to double book. For example, you can charge a consult fee or at least reserve their time with a credit card while when they're booking. Um, and you can even text multiple appointment reminders and so on. Get a lot more creative about how to. Good customer service rather than the opposite. Now, here's number nine on how to think your way to success: Always be learning good thinking, in order to think your way to success. Surgeons stay open to learning and growing for a lifetime. Even though they spent many years learning to be a surgeon, they realize there's more to it than that. They now have to learn to be a good leader, manager, and marketer to stay. Now, here's number 10 on how to think your way to success. Listen to the experts. You can get a Reader's Digest shortcut education just by listening to others who have been there and done that. The specialized experts have already done the heavy thinking on a certain topic, so you don't have to, which helps you think your way to success. For example, you can spend 40 hours on the weekends learning the latest marketing hacks, or you can pay an expert in plastic surgeon marketing to customize a proven marketing plan for you. So, for example, if your time is worth at least a thousand dollars an hour, which it is, and the consultant charges 10 grand, that's a savings of 30 grand and you'll have an actionable plan to execute. Doesn't that make more sense to think your way to success? And the last one is, number 11 on how to think your way to success: Think big. This is different than thinking big picture to think your way to success. This is more like 10 times in your efforts and results To make that happen, you would have to think. How could you do that? It will expand your mind and your thinking. So, for example, if you currently bring in 1 million a year, thinking big has you asking yourself, how could I bring in 10 million instead? Now, whenever you ask your brain a question, it has to give you back an answer, which is key on learning to think your way to success. So, listen and take notes when the ideas come, and some of those ideas will be something like, raise your prices or bring on more service providers who have big following. Or train other surgeons on your innovative techniques, and that's just to name a few examples on how to think your way to success. If you sit still long enough, the answers are within and they will come to you. So, to wrap this up, I wanted to leave you with a few quotes to bring the point home. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, everything begins with a thought. John Locke said, what we think determines who we are, who we are determines what. James Allen said, our thoughts determine our destiny. Our destiny determines our legacy. Now, my own advice that I learned from Wayne Dyer, the spiritual guru, is if you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change. Gosh, that is so true. So that wraps it up for me. If you haven't already, would you please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and then of course check out www.cosmeticpracticevault.com. It's got everything you need to know about the business and marketing of running a very specific successful plastic surgery practice. Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to think your way to success. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Think Your Way to Success".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #thinkyourwaytosuccess #successfulthinking #successfulplasticsurgeons | |||
| Blending Plastic Surgery with Wellness — with Emily Hartmann, MD (Ep.196) | 11 Mar 2023 | 00:54:26 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and blending plastic surgery with wellness. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Blending Plastic Surgery with Wellness — with Emily Hartmann, MD". The healthier your patients are, both physically and mentally, the better their outcomes and the less grief you have to deal with. So, you can either hope your patients are fit or you can proactively help them get to sound body and mind, so they have a smooth journey before, during and after surgery. This week's Beauty and the Biz episode is an interview I did with Dr. Emily Hartmann, a board-certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Chico, CA, where she was born and raised. She takes the sound mind and body philosophy to a new level. After suffering from her own health issues trying to juggle being a wife, mother, surgeon and business owner, she needed a new approach for herself and her patients. Here's what we talked about:
P.S. If you want to attract more cosmetic patients, check out my latest resource to help:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue." Transcript: Blending Plastic Surgery with Wellness — with Emily Hartmann, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and Dr. Hartmann's wellness package with surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now I have a very interesting guest today who has made a success of blending plastic surgery with wellness. It's Dr. Emily Hartmann. She's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Chico, California, where she's been blending plastic surgery with wellness. So, I'm in Sausalito. She's probably two hours away from me. So, she was born and raised there, which is probably how she founded because I don't know where Chico is. And she's owner of Beauty Eternal Surgical Practice, as well as, Beauty Eternal Medical Spa, and also, the Medical Director of the Eternal Wellness Spa, offering holistic services to support the mind, body, and soul, and thus, blending plastic surgery with wellness. Now, Dr. Hartmann is a graduate of Georgetown University's School of Medicine. She did her residency at the University of Wisconsin Madison and her aesthetic surgical fellowship at an ASAPS credentialed University of California Keck School of Medicine. And she practiced in Marina Delray and Beverly Hills. So, she has several publications under her belt and summer Along the way, she found time to get married and have three kids. Yikes. So, Dr. Hartmann, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Emily Hartmann, MD: Thank you So, much. It's an honor to be here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks So, much for coming. So, tell me this quick journey. I like to hear the journey between fellowship and solo practice. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Was it a jig jag or did you go straight to it? Emily Hartmann, MD: I went straight to it. I knew I had my sight set on coming home because I, my kids were young and I just wanted to be closer to family and I love the idea of serving my community once I realized I wanted to do more aesthetic surgery and breast reconstruction. So, it just really. I bee lined over here. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you have to start from scratch? Did you buy a building? Did you rent a space? How'd that happen? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: So, I found a partner and a guy in town who was in private practice, solo practice, and he was incredible in terms of letting me come in just 50 50. Kind of hung a shingle with him as we expanded to new buildings and we opened an, an operating room a quad, a s f, and Medicare approved operating room as well as a med spa. So, he was very, Open with me and, and was able to give me a platform to spring from very quickly once I was in practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is he a plastic surgeon? Yes. Yes. So, when you two came together, what was the agreement was, were you his associate, were you partners? Were you Completely two different? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: We were partners 50 50. Oh. And yeah, it was pretty incredible. So, I just had, he had the, the, the worth of what he already owned. And So, I just bought in 50 50 with what I brought with me, and then we built from there. Catherine Maley, MBA: And was like, was the goal to have him and you come in or like, what, what was up, what was his motivation for adding another surgeon, especially somebody young with not, without a following? What was the benefit to. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well probably his retirement plan that I would slowly kind of buy him out and he would have an exit strategy. So, I, you know, he was a, he's a very a very kindhearted person, just enjoys having camaraderie around him. And I think that was part of it too. We just kind of — Catherine Maley, MBA: That's unusual, right? Yeah. I mean, had you known about him or had he known about you? Like, did he also, grow up in a community and like what was your, what were you bonding over? It's weird, right? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, I think we bonded over plastic surgery mostly, and that I wanted to be in Chico. So., I woke up in the middle of the night and thought, oh my gosh, I need to look at Chico as options. Maybe I want to work in Chico. So, I started calling around So, that there were five plastic surgeons in town and he was just So, open and kind. And., we'd had some good conversations back and forth, and then it just went from there. He had a great business manager who then contacted me when I was in fellowship and she, she came down interviewed cause I was working at, with Grant Stevens at the time. Wow. And she toured the practice and I just said, I want to, I want to do what Grant's doing. I want to build the dream and bring ev watch everything come to fruition. And so, She did it. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's seriously amazing because not everyone thinks like ran Stevens. He's an anomaly for sure. So, you were hanging with these big thinkers, like he's such a big thinker. And then you're coming back to Chico and I'm sure that them, the plastic surgeon you were going to join. I just like, did he know you had big. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: I shared them with him. Okay. And he was, he wanted me to, Just succeed in whatever it is that I, I needed to fulfill, have my own sense of fulfillment. Mm-hmm., he was very happy in his practice the way it was. So, I just brought more elements, more energy. You know, we, we bought a cool sculpting machine almost immediately, and he was, he was excited, I think for the new experiences. Catherine Maley, MBA: And then how did you enter the marketplace? Because were you just feeding off of his patient list? Was he already doing some pretty good marketing? And then he said, oh, by the way, you know introducing, you know, how did, how did you step into the marketplace? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: So, he had been here for 12 years before I, I came along. He already had a pretty good footing though. He was predominantly a hand surgeon and a reconstructive surgeon, and, Really, I started from scratch. He was not doing much in the way of marketing you know, outside of local magazines and such, but didn't have really a strong website or anything, so, So, that was I, I essentially was starting from scratch and building from, I just started taking, you know, call at the hospital and whatever I could do. It was a very stressful time. Mm-hmm. Trying to, Get through my board's experience and then I had small children at the time. It was, it was a really intense, intense time. And my, the person I was in practice with he was very understanding and supportive. It was a good, it was a good relationship. Catherine Maley, MBA: And then is he still in practice now? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: He is, and we have separated. Okay. Practices. Honestly, I, I had this massive experience when Covid happened and I just, I just realized that I needed to make a dramatic shift in what I was doing, and I really was better off by myself. Mm-hmm. and he understood. We're still great friends and I, you know, operate, we still operate out of the same or. He just, you know, has a big heart and is excited for me to fulfill my dreams, but we are definitely kind of going in different directions. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I would think if he's recon, you know, is he's doing mainly hand surgery and you're probably loving cosmetic. You're probably loving both. Like how are you balancing that? Because if you were hanging with Grant Stevens, you, you know, he, he, he's got it all going on over there. So, how were you? Did you like cosmetic or did you think you were going to be reconstructive and then cosmetic really got ahold of you? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, So, in residency all you really see is reconstructive. And that's really what I remember. My brain was, you know, I was going to do peripheral nerve, I did a lab year and then I just really had. I was starting to get this big realization around my fourth year of re residency that I needed more in terms of interactions with patients and also. The whole research thing didn't jive with my what my sense of purpose was. I didn't really get that, the fulfillment that I was hoping for. And So, that started to change me. And I actually started to interview attendings around me about their lifestyle and what, you know, what kept them up at night. And it was just a, a lifestyle that I think was not for me. And then I started doing a rotation with aesthetic surgeons. And I was started to see some really neat stuff going on, and, and they just seemed to have the, I'm just, the private practice world seemed to have So, many opportunities for me to think outside of the box that it really just pulled me in. Catherine Maley, MBA: But you hadn't been thinking about that until way later, right? Like a lot Actually that's not true. A lot of surgeons never even think about it until they're 10 years in at the hospital and they say, this cannot be the way we do this. You know, and they like, So, you, you get these revolutions whenever you get them. You know, this might be the actually a good time for us to talk about why you're on this. So, this is how you got on my. I happened to I don't know why I, I, I just can't get enough of this industry. And So, of course I signed up for this 7:00 AM on a Saturday morning. Beautiful. The Aesthetic Society had a great webinar with the women and it's about burnout. Mm-hmm., and I just couldn't miss that because, you know, you guys are really like gosh, I mean, you're doing the, the job of a lot of people in one, So, I loved your story. So, could you just, let's just talk about burnout for a minute. Cause nobody ever talks about it. Everyone's fine. Everyone's doing great. Everything's great, you know, and I love when people are authentic. So, j could you just go into your story a little bit of how you got to that? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. So, this. This whole process has been constant episode of rediscovering myself and when you get through residency, well, medical school, residency, fellowship, and you're just doing all the things that you feel like you need to do, and then you get into being an attending. And a young attending in a new practice, new location, I really didn't feel like I knew what I was doing. Everything seemed to be just So, challenging and it wasn't what I imagined. I think I had all these expectations that were really unmet. It was hard for my spouse as well because he was. Thinking that everything was going to be easier after training, and then we buckle down, then, you know, everything's going to open up in this, and the, the, the, the lights will be brighter and money will fall out of the ceiling. none of it. True. So, there was a lot of pressure on me to, to make things work. And I. Doing it. I was in survival mode. I was, you know, showing up for my kids and showing up for my patients and showing up for my family, and I just, over time showed up for myself less and less. And then I realized that I, I was starting to have some. Some health issues and really some mental issues. I mean, I, I had started I developed an anxiety disorder in medical school, So, that was something I was already grappling with and had kind of managed. Catherine Maley, MBA: But then what does that mean, an anxiety disorder? Like what does that look like? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: It looks well, it manifested as panic attacks. When I was studying for my shelf exams in medical school and I had to see a psychiatrist, I could, I had terrible insomnia and, and I needed heavy medication Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that, opened the door for the…? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: The route of panic attacks and anxiety to be more sort of, it creeps up every now and then. And So, I had developed methods of coping, but they weren't exactly healthy. So, then Covid struck, and I had all this time to sit and think to myself as many people. and I started to meditate. I started to read books that were, seemed to like, kind of come to me divinely. Mm-hmm. And one of the main books I read that really had an impact on me was Mind Over Medicine by Alyssa Rankin. She's a very prolific author. I'm not sure if you're, if you've heard of her. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm going to mention her in the notes then. Yes. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Mind over medicine. She is just fabulous. She actually lives in Marin near you. Oh yeah. She's, I'll get her on the podcast. Oh, she's amazing. So, Alyssa Rankin is an OB-GYN not practicing any longer, as she had experienced her own burnout. And from that fallout, she developed this system of tuning into your internal wisdom. and there she has this whole methodology, and a way to prescribe yourself what you think you need. And it's beautiful. It's a beautiful way to prioritize your needs and realize that what you've been conditioned for doesn't have to be that way. You can think outside the box, you can write your own rules. And that was very empower, empowering to me. And I realized that I wanted to create a, I wanted to create something very special for my patients and. What came to me was this idea of mindful plastic surgery and putting together my love of wellness and my love of l embodying all the other modalities that can impact patients with plastic surgery and. Took out big pieces of paper and started drawing on the walls and became extremely directed in my vision. And that's when I decided to break ways with my partner, move o physically offices, and I not looked back. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what did you create? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: So, it's now a year and a half old as our brick and mortar has opened. And it is a two buildings plastic surgery and a meds spa. And then across the parking lot is my wellness center where I have. A whole host of complimentary services, hypnotherapy, which we use to prepare patients for surgery. My hypnotherapist has a beautiful pre-op program that patients see him two months prior to surgery and they start to flood their system with positive affirmations. It is the most beautiful. Catherine Maley, MBA: Can they do surgery without anesthesia? Thanks to him. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, like, like a hypno-epidural. There, there, there are, there are. We, we haven't really ventured into that yet, but there hypnotherapy is extremely powerful. Mm-hmm. People know it a lot from the hypnobirthing and how impactful that can be, where you dissociate completely. And it's, it's pretty incredible what the mind can do. So, what, when I, when I first started putting this together, my main goal was to tackle anxiety leading up to surgery for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a big deal. I deal. Cause I'm training coordinators, you know how to get people to a Yes. And what they're forgetting is people are scared. oh, it's So, scary. You know? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Mm-hmm., we also, carry a lot. Stress and trauma and different ways of managing it. And a lot of people just bury it deep down and then surgery comes along. And, you know, it's interesting. Patients have a tendency to, they just don't, they don't think about it in the way that it. It's like a huge life experience. Mm-hmm. and that sense of vulnerability and lack of safety, that feeling can all of a sudden manifest all of this anxiety. Mm-hmm. and tension and fear, and we know going in to surgery when you're like that harder to manage from an anesthesia standpoint and a pain management standpoint, but then after surgery, they're tense, they're anxious, they are harder to rationalize with. They're just, they're, they're tricky because they're con, their mind has sort of captured them and So, that we know a lot, many studies that show an. Complication rate in patients who have a higher anxiety rate prior to surgery. So, it, it's just been revolutionary. I also, do not tend to prescribe narcotics, or at least I try to avoid it. And by doing this, I prescribe herbal supplements prior to surgery that our anti-inflammatory. And then supplements after surgery. This, this also, has completely changed the way, you know, my patients walk in, they're very clear. They've got very little bruising, very little swelling. And this is definitely stepping outside of the box for plastic surgery. Mm-hmm., you know, we, we are trained to hold all our herbal supplements prior to surgery because Right. Who knows what's in them and it could cause bleeding and some have more compelling evidence to increase the risk of bleeding. And some, you, it's, it's largely vague. Mm-hmm. So, in searching for, Well, in my county, the issue with opioid abuse is, Through the roof. Mm-hmm. So, I have to be extremely careful. I feel as though being a good warden to my community, I, I just don't prescribe them on the front end. And I always tell people, I will give them, if you need it, you know, you get my cell phone number and if you need it, I'll, I'll prescribe them, but I don't dole them out without real care and consideration. In addition to that, we have reiki, which is energy healing. Reiki is a very beautiful experience that is hard to explain until you have the experience yourself. But essentially someone who is trained with reiki uses their hands on your body in certain areas and they just spend time shifting your energy, trapped energy, stuck energy, childhood energy traumas, and Realign you. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll just give you my Reiki story. I, okay. I'm like Irish Catholic from Chicago, like we don't believe any of this hooey. But cause I've lived in northern California So, long, I'm, I'm a firm believer now. However, I'm in graduate school, we had to do this weekend getaway, and I have always jogged forever and I have a pulled hamstring and I've had it forever. The girl from India, of course, knows Reiki and says, I can take care of that for you. And she doesn't touch me. She just does some weird thing gone forever. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: That wow. Crazy. Wow. Yes. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm a true believer. Emily Hartmann, MD: Wow. That is a wonderful story. I hear, I, I hear So, much of that just in, you know, until you feel it and experience it yourself. It's kind of hard to convince people. Yeah, it is life changing. It is. So, we have reiki, we have my nurse practitioner who's in charge of all the wellness programs, she, she actually spends three sessions with my surgical patients, getting them ready for surgery. So, she, it's amazing. She talks to them about things that I, you know, we don't have time to talk about. Things that are important to the surgical experience, like getting your environment ready, reducing inflammation, reducing stress and, you know, breath work and breathing techniques. She's, she's just incredible. So, that is my goal in terms of optimizing patients for surgery. And we also, offer, you know, massage, lymphatic massage and facials and function similar to a day. Catherine Maley, MBA: Holy cow. Alright, So, the way the office is set up, you have one building with the plastic surgery and the med spa. Mm-hmm., the non-surgical, the surgery is done in another building that you two are sharing. The other surgeon is sharing. How far is that from your office? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: It's about a five-to-10-minute drive. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, nice. And then the park across the parking lot is the holistic center. Yes. Right. So, alright, those are a lot of moving parts there. So, how many, how many staff is involved in all of this? Like how and, and how many are revenue generators? Emily Hartmann, MD: You know, we have about 20 staff. Two of those are nurse injectors who function in my med spa. They do the lasers and injectables, and they're very gifted human beings. So, those, those are my co providers. Mm-hmm. And So, yeah, we have about 20. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you jump right. You've invested in the lasers, you've got your buildings, you have your or holy cow. How's it going? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, I appreciate you saying that because it feels like we always need to be doing more, but, but I've come to a point where I want to, now that I've realized the dream mm-hmm. I just want to spend time making it better. And I, I feel like we, we keep having people call. We, we don't have a microneedling RF device yet. We don't have this, and we don't have that. We have a lot of things, but I, I, I really want to be experts at what we deliver and I want to focus on the patient experience because when, when you get So, bogged down with all these different facets, it's easy to. To lose sight of the purpose, you know, the main. Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's not, it's not always more is better because if you had too many variables, you absolutely lose the patient experience quality part because there are too many things going on. Too many people work there, too many patients are in there. You're there for too many different things. I personally love the idea now of more concentration on the patient experience, So, they return, refer, and review, than constantly trying to get a whole bunch of new people. Looking at all your different services and I just think that's a different kind of game to play. You can do it, it's just complicated, you know? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Right. Yes, yes. And you know, creating your own definition of successful, you're right. To me, I, I would rather have a really in-depth conversation with a patient and discover that plastic surgery really isn't for. You know, they need to go focus on, you know, managing their traumas or leaving their abusive husband. You know, plastic surgery isn't going to make you feel better. May, it might make like, You know, in the, when you first go in and talk about it, and people think that it's like getting a haircut, it's going to suddenly make you feel lighter and better about yourself. But I have to be really careful with the tools that I have been, you know, I have developed, I, I'm acutely aware of how. How selective I need to be and that not everyone is a good candidate, but unless you take that time, it's really easy to miss those things. So, for me, I would just much rather let those patients go mm-hmm. and pull in and focus on the ones that You know? Catherine Maley, MBA: I feel like are really need the investment at every medical conference I've gone to. There's always that topic of I wish I had followed my intuition. I wish I knew this was going to be a problem, but I thought I could handle it. There's always the unhappy patient's story there. Do you have any tools you are using to get you to identify those red flags before you get into deep. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, My number one method is I schedule enough time with my consults that I really can talk with them about what brought them in. And I always ask the, the difficult stuff. You know, that's, and I don't let spouses in because I just wanted to focus on the patient mm-hmm. And So, I, you know, I dig deep into understanding what brought them in. And that takes time because you have to kind of first establish trust. And So, I think that's the best way to the best way I've found to, to find those red flag patients. Other ways are, of course, just paying attention to how they interact with your staff, and that can be a real. But it's, it's tricky. It's tricky. Catherine Maley, MBA: What are, what are the tough questions you would ask them that would help you indicate something might be off? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, I always want to know what do they think they're going to accomplish with plastic surgery? And I'll tell you, it's the people who don't have solid firm answers that raise my red flag. You know, people who come in and, and they just, they can't really explain what they need. They just say, I just want you to look at me and tell you what I need. Tell me what I need. And I'm like, Oh yeah. Versus the, you know, mother of 3 42 comes in as like, take off this extra skin. And I say, yes, Mm-hmm. So, it's the non-descript kind of sad and or overly energetic, but have a hundred things that they want to do. They're just not quite as focused. And those patients I have to really give pause. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. You know, that's interesting. You say you don't have the husband come in. I actually want the husband to come in number one because. Don't they always say at the end, every woman blames it on her husband. I have to talk to my husband about this. I can't, I can't give you an answer. I have to talk to my husband. And I'm like, what is with this, with this husband thing? I'll put the husband our boat without telling you or asking you, So, whatever. But I then I say, okay, then let's bring the husband in because he can also, be a red flag if he's the one doing all the talking and she's just sitting. I think that is really helpful to know because you start asking, well, why do you want to do this? And he answers for her, that's really good intel too. So, you're doing it the other way, you just, you know, don't even want the husband involved. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah. Yeah. And it depends on the situation, but when I first meet someone, I like it to just be us. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a great idea. How do you somehow introduce them to the holistic side? Because it sounds like everybody is going to have a holistic slash surgical experience with you. Is that right? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: For the most part the everyone is signed up to meet with Lauren. She is. The one who spends a large amount of time with them. And So, I know that they're going to get that introduction, but when I'm talking with them and I'm going through the process, I just introduce it as a normal part of our experience. So, I, I say we have a pre-op hypnotherapy program. It's essential for managing your anxiety and optimizing your outcomes and, and increasing. Level of satisfaction after the surgery, and it also, reduces the sensation of pain. Everyone is like, oh, okay. And that the you know, I just, I basically just work it in like I would anything else? Catherine Maley, MBA: And is it part of the package? Yes. Is it, it goes, it's included in the., but what about the lymphatic massage? Because that can also, often be a little stickler because a lot of the practices just do the, the surgical procedure and then they refer out, you know, to somebody else to do the lymphatic massage. And some of these groups are charging the patients, you know, your patients several thousands of dollars. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? And how are you working that part out? Emily Hartmann, MD: We just bundle it all in and So, it's a requirement. Obviously, I can't force them to show up for their appointments, but it is, they've paid for it, So, it is a part of their package and that way they're not paying for multiple things, but everything is sort of, is all inclusive. Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that idea. Thank you. Good for you. Because you know what you're, that's how you're differentiating yourself as well, because others aren't doing that. I'm trying to think though. Somebody like me who's type A is like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, can we just get on with this? But I also, love the head the mind stuff, you know, So, I'd probably be okay. I, I want the hypnosis. I think that sounds fantastic. And then I love the lymphatic massage, So, maybe, I mean, have you had any resistance to it? Are the patients loving having that full package? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Man, they, they're, they're loving it. I've had some interesting resistance to it, just to kind of random reasons that they don't like massage. One patient who has a bad experience as an adolescent and So, they don't like people touching them. And I said, oh, yes. No problem. That makes sense. But we have hypnotherapy that can help you. So, it's a, you know, you know, it's customizable, but it's generally something Yeah. That, that people are excited about. It is So, beautiful to go from this experience because we, breast reconstruction can also, you know, use the services have this experience where you're, You know, this very emotional difficult time. And to be able to walk over to the wellness center where everyone is, is on board with your healing, everyone understands versus going to another place that's off brand and they don't know you. You have to explain yourself. This is an a, a relationship that we are establishing with patients that carries through this. Beautiful. Oh, sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: Let's go back to the staff again. 20 staff or a young surgeon is insane actually. How are you, how did you, did you study leadership and management? Did you get a killer practice manager who's handling this for you? Like what's the secret to handling all of that? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Thank you. I'm So, glad you asked this because this is my secret weapon. My business manager is insanely good at her job. So, she has a medical business consulting, or excuse me, a medical consulting business. Mm-hmm. and called Medical Business Solutions. And So, she and her staff do all the HR and, and hiring and firing the sticky stuff. Yeah. I, however Do not. I am. I like to be involved. I like to be a leader. I like to, to set the vision and I'm, I'm, she doesn't treat me like just a money generator. She really brings me in and she is, she actually builds me up as a leader and I lean on her quite a bit. She, I just went to a leadership meeting for the Aesthetic Society. And So, she supports me in trying to be the best leader that I can because it doesn't come naturally to me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nobody, nobody's a born leader. It's a learned asset. Some people are more innately attuned to it, you know, it's learned. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah, but it's, it's really, it's So, rewarding Once you can have this functioning body of people who are growing and learning and, and propelling forward with the same vision and you can set back and watch people find their own zone of genius and you don't have to do everything. You can just kind of let them take the lead and, and. It's just, it's a beautiful process. So, I've grown a lot. I've learned a lot. It was blood, sweat, and tears, but it's been wonderful. Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you say staffing is the biggest challenge or what would be your biggest challenge? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, it's interesting for me personally, staffing and turnover. You know, I had the, an amazing nurse practitioner who then had to get engaged and married and be happy No. And then move away. And So, those, those kinds of unexpected things, I'm just kidding. I'm very excited for her. But those unexpected things, those shifts are of course, challenging. You know, I've got such a strong team that we can lean on each other. So, I think the staffing stuff doesn't bother me as much as what? What really is tough for me is to hold firm to. What I need to maintain my mental health. Hmm. That is a, I'm constantly being squeezed, and not by anyone's intention, but it's just the nature of the beast. Mm-hmm., I naturally want to show up and say yes and do all the things so, I, I'm constantly kind of reexamining where we're at and, okay, I need to re reestablish my boundaries. I need to see the wipes of my kids' eyes in the morning. I need to kiss them goodnight. Good. You know, at night. And I have all these phys, these, you know, I do things that keep me sane and maintain my anxiety because I'm the one running this shit. So, I affirm me personally, that is the, a very big challenge that I, it takes a lot of discipline and self-awareness. Catherine Maley, MBA: And you need to learn that now for the next three decades because every surgeon I know who had developed bad habits now have to develop better habits in their fifties because their neck is killing them, their back's hurting, their E. Everything hurts and. And, and their attitude's getting bad. Like, if I have to do one more liposuction case, I'm going to kill myself, you know, it just, it starts numbing. So, I'm So, glad you're developing good habits now. How are you finding the time to meditate? I have tried to meditate for years, and, and I know it's So, good and I, I struggle with it to sit still. I, I, if there's some, some kind of like jogging meditation, I would be better off. Or like, if I could meditate on the treadmill, I'd be like, I just like to. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Actually, there is. So, So, today I actually did a walking meditation and it was synchronized to my steps and it was a really beautiful, I'd never done a movement meditation of that. It was like a guided meditation. So, there, there are methods for people who are not sit stillers. Mm-hmm. But I still. Still, you know, running is definitely a movement meditation. But there is something magical about sitting there still. And I, I, Lisa Rankin talks about this, that the things that are sometimes we are the most resistant to are exactly what we need. So, I mean, that's always helped me. Catherine Maley, MBA: I can do 15 minutes. I used to be able, yeah, I was doing four and now I'm up to 15, and I can do that fairly comfortably. On the weekends I can go. 30. Whoa. But after that, I'm getting itchy. I just, because I'm really, I know what's going on in my head and I get all the messages that I'm, that I'm, I know when I'm, when I'm, when I'm open to it and when I'm not. Like I, I just, I feel like I've spent enough time with me that I, I, I understand a lot of that already. Boy, I, it's So, important to stop, like stop and stop thinking. Stop thinking, stop. The monkey minds us. All that stuff going on. I just, you know, it's hard to do in this world today. Yep. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: It is. I was just reading Michelle Obama's book. Mm-hmm. The Light We Carry and she talks about picking up knitting during Covid because she was ordering stuff on Amazon and she thought, okay, I'll, I'll order some knitting needles. And she taught herself to knit, but that, that she had never. Done something. Like that with her body that wasn't So, like, you know, intensely using her brain and now, and she just knits, she's knitting up a storm because it really brought her this sense of calm and peace and home sense. Mm-hmm. And I just thought, there you go. There's a meditation. Catherine Maley, MBA: I, yeah. Yeah. I knitting's not going to happen probably, but I, I do a lot of journaling and you know how they always say with journaling, oh, you must do, you know, pen and paper. Hand and paper. You know, you've got to hand. And I thought, no, I don't. Every time I try to do that, I resist it because my handwriting is atrocious. Oh. And I can, I can't write as fast as I can think, but I can type like nobody. So, I type and it is So, meditative for me. I just, you know, like the thoughts of the day, you just type them out. I get it all down. I do it every morning. That is my. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Right on. That's amazing. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, well then thank you very much for that conversation, Cause as you get older too, you say, who says you have to do that? Like I, I question a lot more than I used to. I used to just be like a good soldier and I know you were too, and you're probably your worst critic and you push yourself more than anybody else pushes you. Have you gotten a handle on that and you're feeling like you have a better control over your life? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Most definitely. Most definitely. And I have the freedom to push back and to create those boundaries that I've, I've never had before. This is a really, really incredible time for me. And that's not to say that the, those like, So, it's interesting I, if you start reading. Mm. Masculine and feminine and, and things of that nature. You know, plastic surgery was built on, the masculine medicine was built on the masculine, and there are certain ways that we, you know, that we learn that are very masculine. And So, I. Once I realized this and I started to I stopped wearing a white coat, I just started to like, kind of slowly break down some of those just automatic or auto automat automatic reflexes and. Decide what, you know, what was best for me? It, it was a real game changer. It was a real game changer. So, we're, we're very stuck in our, our routine. Oh, what's interesting, I know what I was going to say is this idea of a morning routine and, and of this, these check boxes. And if you don't do this, you know, everything isn't going to be just perfect that day. It's a very masculine way to approach your day. And So, I, I love that you said this because I, you know, there was a time when I was very check boxy and, oh, I'm going to have a morning routine and a meditate. It doesn't work that way. We are cyclical beings and every day is different. Every week is different, every month is different, and phases of the moon are different. It is a really, it's a really, it's a very freeing sense to have that realization. And say, oh, okay. That's why it feels So, impossible sometimes because I don't need to do that right now. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I, I love podcasts. I'm sure you do too. And I'm constantly listening to the men, like these internet marketers who just crush it every day. And I think I have become a man. I just, you know, I have got to chill and they take cold showers. Okay? I take cold showers and it's just So, habitual. All of this. And then I think I'm kind of lost if I don't do it. And that's even worse. Because then I think really, I mean, is it, seriously, Catherine, you, you know, you're not conquering the world here. You know, I'm just conquering my corner of the world. But. Back to you. I think you're amazing. Thank you. So, you have, I'm loving your business idea. You've got these three entities, you've got 20 staff, you've got a great group managing it for you, which absolutely, you should be the leader in the visionary and somebody else should be in the weeds. You cannot do what you're doing and be, do the Knickknack, all that. Just not healthy now. So, tell me about the revenues though, because you have. This is a big boat to float. So, how are you keeping that steady stream of patients to cover the overhead and are you losing any sleep over that? Is one group making more than the other group or do you find that if things slowdown in surgery, it seems like the meds spa will pick it up, or the holistical, like any of that going on? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: It does seem like this really interesting yin yang happens when one is down. Things just seem to compensate and I think that's the beauty of having a diverse practice that it will now the wellness. Center is the youngest of the, of the situation that we have going on. And that is definitely still we're just, we're just So, fresh and new and the revenue stream is not as robust as it could be, but we're, you know, it's, it's getting better and better every day. So, that one is, is sorry. It's getting So, dark where I am. Fine. That one is a. You know, we're just, I, I have, I hate to say low expectations, but it's just really starting to take off and they're doing such a beautiful job, but word of mouth in my area is So, important. So, we're, we're just chugging up the mountain. Yeah. Year and a half in. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. How important is social media to you to grow that practice? Or what marketing channels are you using to make sure everyone knows you're there? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: So, our, we still rely heavily on social media for followers and you know, people seem to. Kind of start following for a few months and then decide to make their consultation and then they'll start messaging us in social media, you know, getting gearing up for that. And, and that still seems to be holding strong. I, I wasn't sure when we first started if social media was going to be as important as it is down in Southern California, but still it. Still a great way for people to get acquainted with who, with our philosophy. Mm-hmm.. So, that is definitely important. I, the, the largest number of new patients come from our website. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And are you doing SEO and you're keeping up with content, that kind of thing? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: So, our website is also, new in formation, and we are just starting to really make tweaks to it, to, to enhance how well it conveys our brand. But these, these things are So, much harder than I realized. Catherine Maley, MBA: And they take longer and they cost more than you think and Yeah. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yes. But we just hired a marketing director in-house, So, she is We're really excited, excited about that So, that we can start really changing the website and making it more of our own as we had someone outside of our, outside of our company build it. So, So, that's exciting. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's also, a big question. Do we bring it in-house So, we can control it? Do we outsource it and hope we can manage it? There is no right or wrong answer for that other than trust your vendor. Treat them like their staff. Communicate with them a lot and tell them what you expect. Don't make them guess. Meet with them regularly. Tell them what you're like, what you're not liking, and don't wait until you're mad. You like, you're angry at them and they're like, what, what, what's wrong? Probably do a podcast just on outsourcing, because frankly, that's really a, a good way business model is if you don't have to do it in. And you don't have to manage people and they can, it's just getting rid of some of this stuff. So, you can focus on the patient experience rather than the external marketing experience. It's the way to go if they're, and then they're the five is to go with it, you know? Exactly. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah, exactly. I found experience of with the, with the web designer I found it. The person that we used was very good. It was just, it was hard to communicate with them because they had So, many other accounts that it, I felt very impersonal. So, that's the only thing I would say to it. Otherwise, I was happy to have someone outside just putting it all together with their expertise. But then, you know, the finished product I felt really didn't convey our message, but I think that was probably a result of, Of me still not owning that message yet, because it was a couple of years ago when we started building that website. Mm-hmm. So, it's been an interesting evolution, but I, I feel as though all things settle out in time. Everything feels like it's not happening quick enough. But in reality, 10 years down the road, I'm going to look back on this time and, and chuckle a little bit about the experiences, but I'm enjoying watching things happen in real time. And they always turn out better and different than I could have ever hoped for. Catherine Maley, MBA: I love your tagline. Can you tell us what it is? Emily Hartmann, MD: "If it's important to you, it's important." Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that. That's really, it came off very genuine when I, when I opened up your website. It's like, if it's important to you, it's important. And I thought, oh, she hears me. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah. Thank you. I, I that's just something I always say to patients who are. Concerned that they're not making a good decision or they feel bad about, you know, financial burden on their family and whatnot. And, and I just always bring it back to if it's important to them, that's all that matters. It's So, simple. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, far you're like a year and a half in or a couple years in. What's your, like, what would be your advice to anybody else that's still new, you know, coming out? What, what would you do? Would you do this again in this big way? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Oh, well, you know, hindsight's always 2020, So, it's So, challenging. But I would, I would, I wish that I had learned to listen to my inner voice sooner. And I wish that I had been more observant of the lifestyles of other plastic surgeons and, and really rather than trying to copy them, learning why they do what they do, but then, Listening to myself and digesting it and figuring out what works best for me. I didn't learn that, learn early enough, but, you know, it's what gives us the depth of understanding for other humans. So, I don't regret it either. Catherine Maley, MBA: You're learning an awful lot at the young age. You're, you really are, you're, you're way ahead of the game, as far as I'm concerned. So, tell us one thing we don't know. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness? Emily Hartmann, MD: Oh, well, I became a black belt in Taekwondo when I was 17, and I'm, I am still practicing Taekwondo. I just went back to it two years ago and it has been such a wonderful and refreshing way to re, re find my power again and power through my body, and also, had, Be silly and make a fool of myself, Good for you. Yeah, yeah. With people who just encourage me and want the best for me. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it was great. So, if you and your husband are walking down a dark alley and somebody approaches you, does your husband step back and let you handle it? Or what? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?Emily Hartmann, MD: Yes, we do talk about that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Honestly, I go have at it. I'll hold your coat. Yeah. Anyway, I'm going to wrap it up now. Tell us how can somebody get ahold of you who would like to hear more about you? And by the way, what's your website? Emily Hartmann, MD: The website is www.BeautyEternalChico.com. That's c h i c o.com. and the easiest way to get ahold of me is through email. So, EmilyHartmann, make sure there are two ends at the end of that @mac.com. That's m a c as in Macintosh. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Thank you So, much Dr. Hartmann for being on. I really appreciate it. And everybody, if you've got any comments for Dr. Hartmann or myself, you can certainly leave them on my website at www.CatherineMaley.com. I'd also, appreciate if you subscribe to Beauty and the Biz. Do you have an Instagram account that they, Emily Hartmann, MD: you want to mention? Yes. @BeautyEternalChico as well. Oh, there you go. Okay. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Hartmann blending plastic surgery with wellness. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Hartmann, you can reach out to her website at, www.BeautyEternalChico.com. A big thanks to Dr. Hartmann for sharing her story on how she's blending plastic surgery with wellness. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Blending plastic surgery with wellness — with Emily Hartmann, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons #plasticsurgerywedllness #dremilyhartmann #emilyhartmannmd | |||
| What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills — with Marc Mani, MD (Ep. 321) | 01 Aug 2025 | 01:02:42 | |
📅 Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Marc Mani, MD, shares his insight and experience on what it really takes to succeed in Beverly Hills as a cosmetic surgeon. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice – What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits. What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly HillsFirstly, "What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills" is more than just talent. Moreover, it's about mindset, media, and marketing. On this week's episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I interviewed Dr. Marc Mani. Indeed, he is one of L.A.'s top plastic surgeons, named by "The Hollywood Reporter" and featured by Gwyneth Paltrow on "Goop." Additionally, Dr. Mani shared how early TV exposure helped jump-start his career. Furthermore, he explained what media attention can—and can't—do for your long-term success. Specifically in "What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills," you'll hear:
If you want to elevate your brand, attract elite clients, and grow a high-end practice, "What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills" is a must-listen. Lastly, if you're ready to attract more affluent patients who never question your fees, let's talk. In fact, in a 1:1 Strategy Review, I'll show you exactly what's blocking your growth—and how to fix it. 👉 Book your Strategy Session now before your competitors do.
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA Practice Growth Resources:
⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#beverlyhillsfacialplasticsurgeon #marcmanimd #drmarcmani #cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons | |||
| Steady Growth in Just 3 Years — with Jason Bloom, MD (Ep.195) | 06 Mar 2023 | 01:04:57 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Bloom achieved steady growth in just 3 years. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Steady Growth in Just 3 Years — with Jason Bloom, MD". There is nothing easy about growing a new practice from scratch or even maintaining a growing practice, let alone achieving steady growth in just 3 years….no matter how old it is. There are too many factors in the way of making steady growth in just 3 years:
This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast is one surgeon's story about how he opened his solo practice and grew it quickly from scratch and attained steady growth in just 3 years. Dr. Jason Bloom, a board-certified facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Bryn Mawr, PA, focuses on facial rejuvenation, rhinoplasty, non-surgical treatments and hair restoration to help fuel the steady growth he's attained in just 3 years. We talked about how he grew his solo practice and made steady growth in 3 years by being in the right location, hiring the right staff and taking good care of them, and how he networks to create a steady flow of referrals. There are lots of pearls in our discussion. Visit Dr. Bloom's WebsiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Transcript: Steady Growth in Just 3 Years — with Jason Bloom, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to create steady growth in just 3 years. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice — What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients, more profits, and to learn about getting steady growth in just 3 years. Now, today's special guest is Dr. Jason Bloom, who's an expert at achieving steady growth in just 3 years. He's a board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, and has steady growth in just 3 years. Now, in regards to him creating steady growth in just 3 years, he focuses on facial rejuvenation, rhinoplasty, nonsurgical treatments, as well as hair restoration. Now, Dr. Bloom attended the University of Michigan Medical School and then completed his residency in Otorhinolaryngology neck surgery at the University of Pennsylvania, before embarking on attaining steady growth in just 3 years? He also, then did a fellowship program at the New York University Langone Medical Center, also before attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Now, Dr. Bloom has authored more than 40 journal articles and book chapters, and speaks at medical conferences all over the world. He continues to teach residents, sits on medical advisory boards and performs research studies as well as clinical trials. Dr. Bloom, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. I'm excited to speak with you on how you've created steady growth in just 3 years. Jason Bloom, MD: Well, thanks so, much for having me. It's a pleasure to see you and to be on this. Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much. So, I always like to start with how, what was your journey to private practice before you started making steady growth in just 3 years? Because it's never a straight shot, is it? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean my I, I've kind of had a little bit of a roundabout way to my own private practice. So, when I was doing my fellowship at NYU in 2009, 2010 I. Came out of my fellowship and I actually joined a dermatologist in the Philadelphia suburban area, which is ki actually where I am now. But I joined his practice and he did only non-ablative lasers, but was a very big name in the space. And he used to joke that I did everything in the office that caused blood or smoke. So, I did all of the ablative lasers, all the injectables and all the surgery. And we are still friends. It worked well. I was with him for eight years. But what happened was after you know, I was a surgeon, facial plastic surgeon in a dermatology office, and he was a cosmetic derm. He and never took any kind of insurance or anything like that. My surgical practice just began to get so, busy that it was hard to run facial plastics practice out of a, a derm practice just because, and even from a support standpoint. So, whether it was surgical coordinators or booking things and seeing patients and follow up, it was, they weren't equipped in their office to do that. And so, you know, I actually found a dermatologist to come in and work for him, and we separated very amicably and I opened up my own practice strictly facial plastic and reconstructive surgery practice in the Burma area not far away. And. That was about three and a half years ago. I have since brought on some nurse injectors. I have a junior partner who works with me. She is a facial plastic surgeon and it's been great ever since. So, that's kind of, it's onwards and upwards at this point. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Let's talk about the location you chose and how that might impact you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? It looks like you're kind of in a strip mall kind of retail area. Yeah. I, I love the thought of that, like the, what are the pros and cons of that because I pro it looks like you're on the ground floor as well. You have your own building; you have your own big name on that center versus being in a hospital on the fifth floor. So, how did you choose that? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: You know I love having first floor access. It is so, nice. Patients walk. I mean, we have tons of parking patients walk in right from the parking lot. They see our name, they see our sign, and yeah. And there's actually a lot of kind of, let's say a. Traffic and influence in the area. My neighbors in our kind of in our shopping area are a, a very busy salon, a very busy nail salon. And then across the straight street and aesthetic orthodontics, there's a dentist's office. There's a lot of kind of people who are interested in aesthetics, all kind of funneling in the same area. And so, when they, maybe they're coming in to get their hair done or their nails done and they see bloom facial plastics, they see it's, ooh, what's going on there? Not like we're accepting like walk-ins, but it does kind of like it's great in that we get that kind of cross traffic and people, it becomes kind of front of mind when they see our name on the... Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that idea, in terms of steady growth in just 3 years. I think you picked the right location though, and the right clientele and the right high-end neighborhood because I've watched others do it, but then they're like next to Chipotle or TJ Max or something, and it, it doesn't have the same feel to it, so, I, I love your location. I think it's great. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Do people ever come in and just walk by and say, I, I just? Jason Bloom, MD: We, we, we see people like walking by, and also, we see our patients that are coming in for example, like PA patients who we've operated on or stuff. This, this is a very busy hair salon, very busy nail salon. And we also, work with some of these you know, with these companies and do kind of co-op marketing in terms of like the orthodontics. We have their cards and their brochures in our office, and they're offering $500 off Invisalign. And we, and, and for example, if they send a patient for a lip lift or lip injections, then you know, they, and because they. You know, our pamphlet in their office, we give them a discount. So, any of the local businesses that are kind of in our direct area, we like to do kind of marketing things on. I remember when some of the injectables were doing it, it was a new indication for like hand filler. And with the nail salon we, you know, any new patient that they saw that they had our brochures at the nail salon. Any patient that they referred got $50 off hand filler because they were coming in and getting their nails done. And they say, oh, you know what? My hands are looking a little bit kind of deflated, or I can see the veins. That was a new patient they were sending us. You surely know how; how important it is to get patient referrals and how much those patients are worth. Mm-hmm., certainly doctors pay for patient leads. This is more than, you know, I'm more than happy to give $50 off treatment to come in my office when it was sent from them. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a lot cheaper than finding an internet stranger patient, to help with getting steady growth in just 3 years, that's for sure. Okay. And they're much more likely to convert. So, I, you know, I think that's a great idea. One idea that, I will tell you somebody else, we both know this facial plastic surgeon, but they they're not in your area though, but they do the tchotchkes, you know, they do the, like the lip gloss and the pens and they just hand it to all the salons and just say, here you go. And so, in case, because a lot of times these are great alliances, they just don't work out because you have to nurture these relationships and they're busy with their own practice, your business trying to figure out yours isn't on their priority list. So, I love to come up with what else can we do where nobody else is involved, like humans aren't involved other than there's a big bowl with your name, with all of, with your name in it, you know, and they can just take free views out of it. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? So, it's a thought. Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. And, and, and, and actually we kind of encourage all of these kinds of local businesses. We see a lot of. Of their employees as well for treatments and things. And we offer them steep discounts in order to come into our practice so, that, you know, they see certainly more patients getting their hair done or their nails done, then we can, you know, handle in a day. So, if they're sending people and they said, Hey listen, we went to Bloom facial plastic surgery and I got some toxin and some filler, and they're recommending us, that's like, that's huge. So, we offer discounts to their employees and, you know, not to send us people, but you know, If they're happy, then they will send us people. We're not, you know, so, it's been, it's been a great kind of back and forth that we've had. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Have you ever done one of those parking lot tent events, you know, where you all get together and you all invite your own patients and then everyone, I mean, have you ever done some, it's a big deal though to, to put that together? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: We did. We did actually. We usually, So, every year when we celebrate our anniversary, which is in the, in September of our practice we do kind of get a tent. I have like a taco truck come, I have a the, the Mr. Frosty, Mr. Softy truck comes, and then we invite everyone to come out and just kind of like, get free ice cream, get some tacos, enjoy themselves. Mm-hmm. And then also, when, when the orthodontist across the across the parking lot, who is a good friend of ours, when they moved into the space, we kind of had a welcome to the neighborhood party, same kind of idea. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, the I, when, a million years ago when I got into this, I lived in San Francisco and I was a marketing consultant and I would get plastic surgeon's gigs at alliances. So, they would give talks at high-end boutiques, hair salons all of that stuff. And it was, it worked great. It was a lot of work though, to coordinate the darn thing. But the point was we had a da a patient list, they had a patient list we needed to get in front of their patients. So, the doctor would pay for the marketing. And in those days, we would send out postcards. Like they were really fun, big postcards, eye-catching. And they worked very well in today's world. I don't know, I wouldn't do that, but, but so, the surgeon it cost him maybe a thousand. Like we had refreshments and the postcard mailing, no big deal. And we got in front of all of their patients or clients, and that's how boy, that was, that worked like a charm for many years. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: That's, That's fantastic. I mean, yeah. Who would, who wouldn't love to get access to? You know, more patients get in front of them, have people see you, meet you. Yeah. That's fantastic. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, especially when they're, they're almost referred, like their credibility. We, we got rid of the trust problem because there was already so, much credibility built into it. So, when the surgeon showed up, it didn't feel like a, a sales thing. It felt like an educational event. and everyone was so, comfortable and I just, those worked so, well that I, you could still do it in today's world, you would just have to tweak it. You know, the marketing channels are different and the trust level is so, different now. Like you'd really, that's why I like going with who already knows somebody that you could know, that they could introduce you to. It just makes your life so, much easier when you know those patients who show up with you, like, who are you? Like who, who are you? You don't want, you don't want a do that all day. You want the patient who says, oh my God, you are so, funny on Instagram. Or, I love your family, you know, isn't that fantastic? Like, is that what happens a lot for you? They show up saying, I feel like I know you. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Patients feel like, well, yes, because my Instagram is very unique. My Instagram, I actually. Craziest. This sounds, I do it all myself. So, I have one account which has almost 18,000 followers and bought that one, but that's the account. I actually, it's uniquely me. It has my crazy sneaker collection of Air Jordans. I put my kids on it. I put your trip to Israel. My, yes, my, my, my trips, my vacations, as well as my before and afters for patients and things going on in our office. We also, have a separate bloom dot facial dot plastics. Oh, I'll check that out. And that's like my office one. And we do have someone, I'm kind of like monitoring it, but we do have someone doing that because it's hard to do both. But I'm, you know, I worry is that if someone did take over my own account, the D RJ Bloom account, it's just like, it loses that authenticity. I feel like there's something that. People know it's me because it's like kind of this self-deprecating, funny guy out there, like putting these things up. Mm-hmm. And I think to kind of pass that off, I, I think with lose a little bit of that it hasn't gotten too overwhelming. It certainly is hard to do. Catherine Maley, MBA: How much time is it taking you per week? How many hours do you think? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: I mean, oh gosh. I mean, I would probably say 10 hours a week I spend on this. And so, it does, I mean, it, it takes a lot of time, but in the end I kind of enjoy doing it. I like interacting with everyone on it and they get a real sense of me and my personality. And actually, just this like past week, I posted something about Mike the top nine, you know, posts from 2022 from last year. Mm-hmm. And when you look at the posts, The vast majority, like seven of the nine posts were more about lifestyle things and my family and my sneakers and things, and maybe one or two were about surgery and my surgical results. And it just shows you that like what people respond to the most mm-hmm. are they want to see that kind of more personal side rather than strictly before and after's and, and you know, it just makes you step back because I'm like, oh, people want a see my facelift results and they want a see my rhinoplasty results. But like, the people have spoken, you know, it's like, it shows that they really want a see you from a more personal side. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's just, I think you need both though. I think you've got to keep, keep showing the social proof, the social proof of, I mean, you're doing a good job of that, which certainly helps with attaining steady growth in just 3 years? But before and after photos, patient testimonials, patient videos are amazing if you can get them like you interviewing the patient afterwards or doing the nose reveal or they patients love that kind of stuff. Totally. But it's so, true nowadays. What's the first thing we., we Google somebody or we just Google anything, and then we see someone's name. We don't go to your website. We go straight to Instagram and, and people, and like a lot of these surgeons are fighting it. And I used to fight it too. I thought, this is silly. What a waste of my time. But for a surgeon, it's not for b2c, it's brilliant. For b2b, it's not as important, but I still have to be there too. Everyone does. We all have to be on social media and if you are not, you're definitely missing out on a whole group. And you can't say it's just for the little kids. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? It's, I mean, we're all on it now, you know? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I have been kind of selective in terms of my social media outlets. Like I'm not on TikTok and I'm not, I mean but, but some of my friends who are facial plastic surgeons have done extreme extremely well on that on that. But I am on Instagram. That's kind of like my biggest platform. Mm-hmm. Interestingly, I have a website. I love my website. Love it. I think they did a fantastic job with it. But when people come in and are like talking about before and after's and they want a see before and after's, I, I don't even, like, I haven't up, I need to be better about updating my website and sending, but I update my Instagram so, much more frequently and sometimes I'm just sitting in a console with a patient and they want a see before and afterwards and we just like, scroll through the Instagram and I'm saying like, Ooh, see this, this is very similar to your case. This is what I would do in this case. And we can look through all the pictures and then they, they can go and I'm like, you can please feel free to refer back to it. I put everything up there, all the different views and they, they feel good about it. Catherine Maley, MBA: How are you getting so, many before and after photo approvals? Because so, many surgeons still say, my patients are private. The minute they say that, I know it's not the patient, it's not, it's the surgeon's belief that, that that's true. It's not, it's not true anymore. I mean, I How are you doing it? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: A couple ways. So, first of all, doing a lot of surgery, So, when you do a lot of surgery you know, if one out of 10 like says yes, then that's great. And so, yes, I operate three days a week, eight hours a day. And I do a lot of surgery. So, my n the number of before and after's I can pick from is larger, right? Mm-hmm. And then the one thing that I always do is I ask personally. Yeah. Like, I'm the one asking that's the secret, and I say, listen, you look great. I'm so, I'm happy that you're happy. Mm-hmm. and. And, and, and sometimes, you know, they'll say, you know, they, they, they'll tell me, and, and, and sometimes they're like, yes, I'm, you can post it. I'm happy to do that. We have them sign, photo, video, consent and sometimes they say, you know what? I don't want a be on your Instagram or your social media, but if a patient comes in the office, you can show, show them. And so, you know, I'm grateful that patients even let me, you know, show other patients. But I think that personal ask, rather than having a staff member do it, is really, that is patients know that you, that you care and like that this means a lot. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yep. Actually, a lot of them are flattered that you want to use their photos. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? So, you asking makes all the difference in the world and it's still a numbers game. Even if only three out of 10 said yes, that adds up so, quickly. Totally. And you know what? I would do, get anything you can if they say, you know what, I'm happy to have you show them in the office, get an iPad for that group, you know, and put them all on there. And while that patient's sitting around a cosmetic patient is stewing a lot during this journey, give them that iPad and keep them in front of all those photos. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, certain, I mean, the, the other thing is there is the, I've, I've had this too, and this kind of has happened with like the younger generation getting rhinoplasty and things like that. And well two things. Number one Of the younger people, like consider it like a badge of honor. They've said, what? Why am I not on your Instagram yet? And, I said, well, I didn't, I didn't know you wanted to be. And so, those kinds of people are great because they actually are excited to like, put it out there. And some and some kind of like want the content. And what I mean by that is I've done some influencer surgery before and they want to like put their reveal videos out there and, and I never. Ask until, but they're like, oh, I want a, like, some ask, will you film footage in the or, or you do this. And I'm, I'm happy to do that for them, but I always let them make the first kind of move and say, oh, I want a put this out there. I'm going to post my reveal video, I'm going to post my experience. And then I say, would you mind if I use those photos or can I share your video? Mm-hmm. And they're usually, they like, want the content for their own, like, outlets. So, how does that process start? Catherine Maley, MBA: There are some influencers who literally have a PR group who call you and say, do you want a do a deal? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: I, I have. I have. I've seen it all. Yeah. And being in practice for 13 years, I have had so, I did somebody's nose probably about five years ago now, and. She, it was originally started through a direct message and she direct message, direct message me. I un I, like, unfortunately, I, I had no idea who this person was. It's like a young influencer with millions of followers on YouTube and so, she's like, oh, can I come in for a consult? I'm interested in a rhinoplasty. Mm-hmm. And I said, sure, call the office, make an appointment. And she's like, well, I don't necessarily live in your area, but I might be in this area. She grew up kind of close and can I come in on the weekend? And then I looked at her Instagram fine and I was like, Hmm, okay, I might want a see this person on the weekend. And I actually came in on the weekend mm-hmm. I saw her, especially with her, with her mother. And she loved and I said, this is what it is, the whole thing. And she called up Monday book surgery and I didn't say anything about it. Catherine Maley, MBA: She didn't ask for any favors? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Not Nope. Until two weeks prior she said, you know what? I think my followers would like to see this. Can we film some stuff in the operating room? And I said, yeah, and, and, and ac and actually I didn't, and I didn't ask for anything and she didn't ask for anything. Mm-hmm. and I am not a fan of giving discounts or you know, free surgery in exchange for this stuff. Like I understand now knowing, and when and when she posted her Reveal video. Mm-hmm. Okay. Which was one week after her surgery, she posted it at 6:00 PM by 6:00 AM the next day, it was seen already by 1.5 million people and it was. It blew up. And I realize now, h the power of this mm-hmm. But I've also, seen the other, I've seen people come into my office, literally a girl who's 18 comes into her off my office with her mother and said to me, I'm a social media influencer. Mm-hmm. And I said, hi, I am Jason Bloom. Nice to meet you. And we go through the consult. She was also, interested in a rhinoplasty. And at the end we give her the price for surgery. Mm-hmm., she looks at it, looks at her mom, looks at the price, stands up and walks out. And, and then I was like, okay, well that's, that's what it is. I don't owe you anything other than a good result in surgery and you don't owe me anything. And this woman's, this girl's mom called back like, Two weeks later and she called my office manager, surgical coordinator and said, yeah, she's doing a bunch of things. I think Dr. Bloom really should, the word they use is collaborate. Okay. You know, Dr. Bloom really should collaborate with her. And my surgical coordinator comes in and she's like, what should we do? I said, you know what you should do, send her the quote for surgery again and tell her these are the dates we have available. And she did that. Two weeks later she booked surgery. Oh, nice. What? I didn't offer her anything. She didn't, and, and, and if this is a private thing, surgery, I'm not going to post anything. And you know what, afterwards she posted it all because she was interested in using the content on her own on her own pages. And then actually I asked her, would you mind if I shared this? So. It's all happened organically. Mm-hmm., but I feel like I don't want a be responsible or contractually obligated for anything. And I certainly don't owe them anything other than, and I don't want them to owe me anything other than a good result. That's what I owe them, is I want a get them the best result possible. I have seen friends of mine have four-page contracts with, you must mention these things and you must use these hashtags and, and ex in exchange for procedures and, and it's just, that's just not me. Never happened. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the girl, so, the, the, the girl who blew up your account, the one that with the 1 million followers, did she come back and want anything from you? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Never. She never has. She's had multiple surgeries with other people too, and she still will po she's posted, she regrets some of her other surgeries and she said she never regrets her rhinoplasty. It was always great. She has over 10 million followers on, on YouTube and about four and a half or 5 million followers on Instagram. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. And if you, I mean, and you can look at my Instagram and stuff. You can find her. She's on there, but like, she still texts me all the time, says I love my nose. It's like my five-year nose anniversary, you know? Oh, that's so, cute. Catherine Maley, MBA: But you know you have a challenge though because of what you're doing. You've got the young rhinos, the older facelifts, then you have the men hair transplant. How are you marketing to three very different groups? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean certainly, I think. Well, Instagram and social media has been hugely popular with the, with the younger generation. Obviously, this is the 17- to 20-year-old rhinoplasty patients. Additionally, my name is very good in the area. I mean, I, I would say even better than my Instagram is the word of mouth that I get and referrals from. And I, and I'll, and I'll tell you one other, my, my biggest area of marketing that has kind of grown my practice over the past 13 years. But yeah, men are hard because men aren't necessarily on Instagram and following this. So, I have. You know, treated friends of mine with hair transplants, and I have a hair care company called Hairapy Hair Care. Oh, good for you. And so, you know, I, you know, treated my friends and they refer other friends and then kind of surgery. You know, facial rejuvenation surgery where I used to say, where I used to see the majority of patients in their late fifties to late sixties. Now, I, the vast majority of my patients getting facial rejuvenation surgery, and that's like face neck lifts and some eyelid work is in their early fifties. Yeah. So, I think over the past five years, it's kind of slid up at least five years in terms of the age. Mm-hmm. And, and they're still very savvy with social media and Facebook and so, they do see me on there. I'm, I do some, some news pretty frequently, so, they see me on TV once in a while. But I would say my, my, my greatest marketing over the past 13 years has been the word-of-mouth and. Because that's hard to do as you know, those are the best patients, but the hardest to get, right? Mm-hmm. So, I am a train and, and this is like a little bit of my secret, and what I've done is I've been a trainer for Allergan and Galderma and Revance, and I work with all these companies. Mm-hmm., and, and, and interestingly the dermatologist, we, that was kind of how we opened, was that, you know, I was with him for eight years and he used to say, why are you training these nurses and why are you training these dermatologists? They're your competition. Mm-hmm. very, very, very shortsighted. Mm-hmm. And what I've done over the past 13 years is I only train derms. I only train PAs. I only train nurses. No plastic surgeons and no one who works for a plastic surgeon. And you know what? I'm a good guy. I go in there, show them exactly what I do. I train them. I train tons. I love training local, local, regionally. I love training dermatologists and these big med spas. And you know what? When they have a patient, because they can, they're, they see, like, I mean, I've become friends with all, all of these people. And when they have a patient who needs their facelift, like who think they're going to send it to, mm-hmm., are they going to send it to someone who they've never had any relationship with? Who's they? They who? You know what? They've never seen their before and after's. They haven't. They're like, you know what they say? Why don't you go see Dr. Bloom? Whether they book with me or not is that's then my issue. Right. But they say, why don't you book a consult to see Dr. Bloom? He does good work. I see him on Instagram. He's come here. He was nice. He showed us, you know, like you might like him. And so, I get more referrals from my friends who are dermatologists and nurses and injectors and PAs in my local community. Mm-hmm. than anyone else. That is my number one source of marketing for the past 13 years, and I continue to do it and not for the money I get from Galderma or Allergan or Revamps to do the training that is pennies compared to the amount of. Referrals and networking that I do at each of these events. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Are the vendors though, are they helpful with pr? Because I used to tell people, you know, the best thing to do with big pharma money because there's a lot of pharma money there. Hang out with their PR department, they can get you a lot of, or have they or have they not or…? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean I've done some, I'm, I mean I've done national PR stuff with some of the companies and yeah, it's a lot of work sometimes for, you know, very little benefit. And for me, I would, I mean I did like a, I mean, years ago I did like a town and country event with Allergan and we were up on the stage and, and doing this and they put it in Counter Country Magazine and it was on their website and like a bunch of different things. And like to me, honestly, when I look back at it, I would rather do an event. One of my friends who owns a big med spa who has nine nurse injectors and sends me more people than doing a national event with one of these companies through their PR department, because it's just patients, you know, the patients that I get one patient coming in from California to have their nose done versus 20 that I'm sent over the course of the next couple months from the other. It's just it. I just don't think it has the same. I would much rather local, regional things with people I trust and care about rather than a big national event that involves time and energy and I just don't see the same, you know, reward on the backside. And my reward is surgical patient referrals. That's what I want a see. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you're doing only surgery, but you've got a lot of other revenue generators are in your office. So, how are you set up staff-wise? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: So, great. Great question. I use, I mean, I built a lot of what I do based on based on injectables and I've converted a lot of them to surgery over the course of the next couple years. When I opened my office three and a half years ago, I brought on a nurse injector who I have since trained in like to do what I do and she's now a trainer for Galderma. I, for the last two years, I'm no longer taking new patients for injectables. Hmm. I'm busy enough and, and, I'm trying. And I tell them, listen, they can see what I did when I'm talking about like, go see my nurse injector, she's great. She injects me. I was like, she sees exactly what I did at last appointment. Some people still want me to do their toxin even. And I'm like, okay, no problem. Happy to do that. But I want a encourage my nurse injector. I just hired another nurse injector to come out part-time. And then one of our estheticians was in nursing school and she has and she has now finished nursing school, so, she'll be slowly learning to inject over the course. So, we should. My partner who injects on, and she's a facial plastic surgeon and she's still about 65% surgery and about 35% injectables. Mm-hmm. We have my full-time nurse injector and then potentially two newer injectors. Who, that I want them doing the majority of the non-invasive aesthetic work. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you believe in surgical versus non-surgical, keeping it all under one roof. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Right? Totally, totally. And, and I'm, I, you know, and it's certainly easier to get in to see one of my injectors and it is to, for me, I only am in the office itself two days a week. Mm-hmm., cause I'm operating. Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thurs Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. So, I'm just only in the office two days, So, to get a, a patient, you know, you can't tell a patient that comes in today that the next time they can see me is in September, you know, or in October. It's just, they'll be, they'll, they're gone. So, you need to offer them options or else see they're, they're not, they're, they're not. And, and not just options, but options. Who you trust and options who you've, you know, who you've trained. Mm-hmm. Both of the new nurse injectors, who, well, one of them, again, new to my practice, she's been a nurse injector for 10 years and one who is newer, both of them. I want them to learn how I do it. Yes. And so, they're, they're shadowing for the ne, I mean, one is shadowing for about six months, and she's coming in on days. She's not even working. Coming into the rooms with me, with my nurse, injector, with my partner, seeing how we do it. W you know, making the, you know, the diagnosis and saying, okay, we're going to use this product here. Why? Mm-hmm., and I always ask, that's my favorite question. Why? Why are you using that product? Why are you using that amount? Why are you going there? Why are you starting there? Why are you using a cannula? Why are you using a needle? Because I like, it doesn't matter necessarily, as long as you have a reasoning for doing these things. I want them to develop their own why. And it's as, and it could be like, I'm doing this because you did it, and I think that makes sense to me. Mm-hmm., but I want it to kind of click and make sense to them if they're going to be doing it. Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's so, important that you're both on the same page on that. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? There have been practices who have hired nurse injectors and two weeks in they realize this injector overfills every time. And it's because they came from a commission-based position and, and it didn't match with this practice at all. They were all about natural results and they had, they looked like loo bird people going out of there with the filler and they had to stop it immediately because it was hurting their brand. It was hurting their relationships. Jason Bloom, MD: Catherine, if you knew how long it took me to like hire one nurse injector and then a new person coming in, there's a lot of. There's a lot of, a lot out there, let's say. Mm-hmm. and I am extremely conservative and, and totally non-confrontational, and I just want patients to be happy. Mm-hmm. and I mean, that has to go a lot with my philosophy. Like I, I mean, I certainly do take before and afters for surgery, but I don't take pictures for injectables. And I, I can explain why, but I, I just wanted someone to fir, first of all, I wasn't inviting someone into my practice. Unless I saw consistently that they were producing natural looking results because, and they, I mean, as crazy as the sound, they couldn't look crazy because we all see those people who maybe they're great injectors, but they look a little bit strange because they're overfilled or they're doing too much. And, and I just want someone who is going to look natural, do natural results because that's what I'm trying to convey. And you know, patients ask, sometimes they say, oh, like where did you get that in a good thing? It's like, wow, where did you get that? That looks good. And then there's also, where did you get that? That looks a little crazy. I don't want a go there. So, I never want that ladder situation. So, yeah. And, and, and by having them see what we do, I think it kind of reinforces that kind of, this is what we do, it's a natural result. That's what I'm looking to put forth. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Any have you had any staff issues like everybody else or how's that going? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: You mean like staffing in general? Just hiring people? Yeah. Yeah. fortunately. I've never had someone leave my practice for, I mean, other than one was, she was Canadian and she her visa was up, so, she had to go back to Canada. One went to medical school, one went to PA school, so, okay. Those were the only three people that have ever left my practice and, and for bigger and better things, you know, like I would never hold something, somebody back. Interestingly the pa is graduating PA school in June and I hope to have her back in my office. As a surgical pa I want her assisting in the operating room and doing pre- and post-op surgical stuff, so, hopefully she'll join our practice back. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what's your secret to hiring and keeping them. Taking good care of your employees? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Being a good person, like, I, I, you know, it, it's, it's every day we're there. I, I buy lunch for the office and just like keeping it light and mm-hmm., you know, we just have a good dynamic. And when you hire someone, you really, and, and this is what I say, and like, I'm like, when I'm hiring even for the front desk, I'm like, I just need to make sure that your vibe with our office mm-hmm. before I hire you. And it's just, we have such a positive, good vibe in our office. Like, I've been super lucky over the past three and a half years. It's like, it's literally like a family. I, I, I'm, I'm with these people. As much as my family members, right? I'm in the office, I'm in the operating room. And so, kind of creating that family type environment. And it sounds kind of hokey, but it really isn't. Like that's, that's the kind of vibe we got, we have there. And you got to kind of, I just respect every one of my employees. They respect me. They know they can call me about any situation, talk to me personally about any situation at any time of the day or night. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, good for you because it starts at the top, so, you're doing something right there. So, kudos I saw on Instagram, I think you had a patient who was like a Sep and she, two years later, but, but what's that? What's her story? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean, she worked as a medical assistant for a dermatology practice and I. She was referred to me through that dermatology practice and I did her nose and just like in our, you know, doctor-patient relationship as she was really happy, you know, I kind of found out she was, you know, not as happy where she currently was. Mm-hmm. and we were looking for medical assistants and aesthetician and she's both, and I brought her into our practice and she's been fantastic and she's been our medical assistant ever since. And she is also, aesthetician in moving into some aesthetician roles as well. Catherine Maley, MBA: But has she been a good referral source or at least a good walking, talking testimonial for the patient's visiting? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Totally. I mean, she's rooming pa, she's rooming patients and you know, she'll sense maybe like a patient who's like nervous mm-hmm. and they're coming in for a consult and she's like, you know what, you're going to be great. Dr. Bloom did my nose. Mm-hmm. And again, she looks natural, she looks good, she doesn't look crazy. And so, that kind of reinforces our brand and what we do and what better to have someone in our office. I've, I mean, Anne, I've done surgery on another front desk person. I did her nose. I've done different kind of procedures like face tight and things on some of our estheticians. So, I love treating some of our office people because they trust it shows trust. Mm-hmm. shows that the results are natural and they're kind of walking, talking advertisements for all this stuff. Catherine Maley, MBA: I always say it's an investment. All of you who think, what? I'm not paying for that. You're missing the whole point. There's nothing better to a cosmetic patient that walks in and says, oh, I don't know. Should I do this, shouldn't I? Well, I had it done and I can tell you my story, really. Let me see. Like, do where are your scars? What's going on? Like, how was it, you know, nothing better. I, I can't imagine, I can't imagine any better investment than having those walking, talking testimonials. It's good pr it's also, good team building and some of the surgeons have like all those r rules about it. I think that's what happens when you come in into it with that. Fear of, you're going to screw me. You're going to, you know, you're going to get surgery and walk away, and then you haven't signed all these documents. I think that's where it gets crunchy and yeah. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: I mean, we, there's no doc. I mean, obviously they get a discount, they still pay for surgery, right? They discounted surgery and they have to be with our practice for at least a year prior to getting surgery, with the exception of someone who had surgery. And then I bring into our practice. And the, those are, you know, those are just but you know, that's, that's from a surgical standpoint. Mm-hmm. But certainly, I encourage, encourage every one of our staff, get toxins, get fillers, get lasers. You can talk about it. Get as much as you want. I never charged them for it. There are only two things that they have to. Number one, you do it after hours. Yes. You ask our nurse injector, you ask me, I'll stay late, come in early. We're happy to do it, but not in the crazy flow of our office day. And the second thing is, if you, you know, all these companies offer free product for the staff. And I say, get it in advance. You want your lips done, get the syringe in advance, we'll do it done. Never charge you. You can do it, you know, whenever you are ready to do it. So, those I do. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so, it, there's, it's all good. All of that is good. It's free for you. It takes a little of your time. It makes the staff so, happy. And actually, I, when I write ads for practices, one of the perks I write is cosmetic treatments. Cause that's why we want a be in this industry, you know? We want stuff done. Exactly. What would you say is like the biggest challenge of running your own solo practice? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Oh gosh, the biggest challenge. You know, I'm not the greatest business person and I've had to learn a lot. How'd you learn it? I have some like fantastic mentors in the business sense. Edwin Williams is, ed Williams is, he's incredible. Your friend and, and one of my best business mentors. And I, you know, I, I didn't do his fellowship, but I would, I mean, I, I feel like I did his business fellowship in learning so, much from him and calling him And I've been on his podcast and we talked about how, kind of like stuff that we, we talk about. So, I consider him huge mentor of mine and kind of like getting a small group of people who you really trust around you who are smart and an accountant, a financial advisor, and people who you trust to kind of help you. Mm-hmm. And I, I said, listen, I am, this is my first time doing it. I need your help in doing that. And then and we kind of like starting out, I did everything at, at, you know, Everything myself. And then, then I had, you know, my office manager and she was my surgical coordinator and office manager. And then we hired a surgical coordinator to kind of like allow her to do more of the nuts and bolts of the business kind of stuff and more of the HR stuff. Mm-hmm. And then my surgical coordinator can focus more on the patients and the booking surgeries and the scheduling surgeries and getting patients ready for surgery. So, like, as we grew, as we kind of like grew into our practice and, and felt more comfortable with what we were doing, we added staff to offload some of the responsibilities where at the beginning we were doing everything and it. For, to pay someone to do that. You know, we're lucky that we, we do well as a practice and, you know, I pay people to make my life easier and to make my office manager's life easier so, that she can, focuses focus on things that are important to the business and not kind of be bogged down with other things. But I remember, I mean, just, you know, like going back to the, what, what we kind of opened this with was when I was at the derm office and I wanted to book a surgery. Guess who was doing that? You were, right? I mean, I was calling the operating room. I was writing the pre-op scripts. I was doing all meeting with the patient's pre-op. I was taking all the pictures. I was making sure that they got their EKGs. I was doing all of that, and I was killing myself, literally. And I didn't have this point. And that was one of the things, why now my life is easier because I have someone to help out with that. But I mean, these are newer things. As the practice grows, you get people to help with these kinds of things. And it's all, it's all growing pains, but you can't be, I would say the one thing that I will say is you, you can't at the beginning be unwilling to do it yourself. Because none of its easy, and you got to be willing to go out there and make the calls and book the cases because no one's going to do it for you. You have to do it as you're growing or else, you know, like you, you can't be a pome being like, oh gosh, I need someone, you're just starting a practice. Oh, I need someone to do that. You know, it's like, right, no, you can do it Catherine Maley, MBA: It's just, it's worth it, or they try to be cheap about it and hire this one person and they have to wear the 14 hats because you don't want a do it. But then you burn that person out and they leave and you're, and now you're really screwed. And so, there's such a balance between how to pay, pay for time, because all we have is time. And it's like, do I do this myself? I mean, there's always, in business, there's always that rule. If you're supposed to be making, let's say 2000 an hour, you should be doing nothing under 2000 an hour task. You know? And if you look at it logically like that, and you think, oh my God, why am I doing. The 40 things that you do, that you probably should be doing, you know because you, you're cheap because you don't want a pay somebody else to do it. But then again, on the other hand, then you also, have to manage other people and hope that they're doing what you think they're doing. Yeah. So, that's why business is so, important nowadays. You've got to figure out the business side of this, by the way you ran. Right? That, by that, what are you talking about? You have a hair club; you have a business hair. What, what was that about? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. So, very entrepreneurial of you. It's, it's, it. Been about six years in the making. I was approached by some friends who, some of them, so, two partners. One is kind of a Q V C alum is a rep of some products and has done multiple marketing kind of things. And product representative product representation of brand representation at QVC, which is about 30, 45 minutes from my office. Mm-hmm. And one of his friends her father who passed away was founded a company called Hairapy Hair Care years ago. I don't, I mean, some people have heard about it. I mean, it was in like Walgreens and c v s and Rite Aid, and it was a big company. And interestingly her dad had all of these patents and formulas. For hair growth and, and hair care in shampoos and on all of these different ingredients. And when he passed away it was just kind of sitting there. And interestingly, so, the three of us got together and she's like, I would wish, you know, we could take something with these ingredients that we call BioDapt eight. It's eight ingredients that we have patents on and, and the formulations. And why can't we like reformulate it and make like a shampoo that helps with hair growth and thickening your hair and a conditioner and some serums. And that's what we did. And we started about six years ago. We are now sold in doctor's offices and direct consumer on our website, under the name Hills. No, it's, it's called "Hairapy" Haircare. So, it's like "therapy", but it's "Hairapy". Mm-hmm. Hairapy haircare. And it's been great. We're going to, we're planning a bigger launch this year, but a lot of my friends in the co in like the facial plastics community and plastic surgery and derm community have now carry it in their office or you know, direct patients to their website. It's very easy. We have serums, so, just serum once a day that matches your skin type because, so, there's a, a normal to dry, a normal to oily and a sensitive, and people are like, well, I, they're like, no, no, no. I'm not talking about my skin. I'm talking about my scalp. I. Does your skin stop at your hairline? No. Right. So, if you have oily skin, guess what? You have oily scalp. If you have dry flaky skin, you have dry scalp. And if you have sensitive skin, you probably have sensitive scalp. So, we use these formulas actually, and we've done great clinical trials showing improved thickness in the hair, improved styling, improved volume, and, and also, like again, I like if I'm invested in the company and I'm, I'm part of it, I give it to my friends and say, listen. let me know what you think. My fellow who is postpartum was having a lot of shedding and postpartum her hair loss. Mm-hmm. She uses this and she just said the amount of shedding she has is so, is so, much less. She loves the way that her hair looks much thicker afterwards. So, it's been really exciting and it's just kind of like one of those fun things that I've done. And because it benefits my patients — Catherine Maley, MBA: But wait a second. That's a whole other company and business that you're doing. So, are you going B2B or B2C? Are you trying to sell it on QVC, direct to consumer, or how are you marketing this thing? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: So, our, our marketing is do we do direct to consumer through our website? We, we offer it at our practice. Other doctors, it's right now only like my doctor friends who have kind of reached out to me or who do, like, for example, when I see a patient who is getting p r P injections or P r F injections or hair transplant, we just roll it in to that package. Right? So, oh, you're interested in hair. We go through the whole thing. Our non-surgical surgical hair restoration. And then as part of it, we. We want, I want you to start on this and if you like it, you can continue to buy it off of the website. Additionally, we have kind of, you know, doctors don't necessarily like to take up shelf space in their office with these products. So, we offer kind of affiliate programs where they give the patient our website and they have a special code, the patient enters it, and then basically they get 10% of every sale that the patient makes linked back to their office. Gotcha. And, and although we have huge connections at QVC, QVC is not the place where we want this because the margins that they take are very steep and it's just not right for our practice at this, for our products at this point, maybe in the future. But yeah, we'll see where it takes us. We're going to kind of do a little bit bigger marketing launch in 2023. Well, Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you the reason you do QVC is because it gets the attention of the big boys. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? There's this woman who, she's, I don't know, 25 years old. She wrote a book on it and she had this concealer you know, facial concealer. And she was Just trying to, you know, get it out there. Anyway, she got on QVC, the profit or the margins were awful. However, L'Oréal ended up buying her company for a billion dollars. Right? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean, that would be nice. I, I will tell you where we're working right now is that some of the companies have, you know, I have some relationships over the past 13 years with some very high ups at many kinds of device and injectables companies as well as skincare companies. We've had conversations, many of them like it, we're talking about partnering with some of them not to buy the company, but to potentially, you know, shampoo, conditioner and serum isn't like, there's not. Companies doing that out there. So, it's kind of a new thing. And, and this year, hair is the last year, a couple of years. Hair has been really exciting. And so, we've been in talks with some companies, so, who, who knows. Catherine Maley, MBA: Good kudos to you because if the plastic surgery doesn't work out. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Jason Bloom, MD: I'm not giving that up. I'm not giving that up. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Alright. And then my last question, well actually, do you have any words of wisdom for anybody who's I not even just coming out in the world, but just being out there right now, all of the crazy going on. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Any, any words of wisdom for how you're doing just fine? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think the key is to surround yourself by good people and be good to those good people. So, you know, when I, when, when I started out with three employees like I had my office manager, I had an MA and I had well really an office manager, an MA that was like, there was three of us. And then I and then I hired a front desk person and really, we started out with, with two and then three employees for a little bit of time because and, and just make sure you bring in good people and you interview them and, and you know, like that they're just not necessarily that they're great. You know, you want them to be good workers, but they're good people. Like their hearts are in the right place and they support you and believe what your mission is, and they believe in you that you're going to do a good job. And then from that, take care of those people as, as the owner, as a boss because you know, I mean, and that of those three people who started with me, I've operated on family members of theirs, I've operated on some of that, you know, it's just like they believed in me in what I could do, and they believed and they trusted, you know, my results. They trusted what I was doing. And, and in exchange for that, I've always been very good to my staff and the people that I've surrounded myself with. Catherine Maley, MBA: Kudos to you because it'll save you so, much time, money, and hassle and sleepless nights. How many, how many, I mean, staff tr problems can just wreak havoc on your mental health. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? You know, you, they're the ones that waking you up at two in the morning and you're like, really? I mean, why, you know, why can't we all just get along? Jason Bloom, MD: I, I remember one thing and I, I'll say my, my father is an oral surgeon and he's 74. He is very close to retirement, but I don't think he's, he's, he's not, he's not ready to retire yet. But he used to say, he's like, The surgery is the easy part. Yeah. He's like, it's, you know, this staff problem and this person calling out and this person's calling, you know, having an issue with this person. And, you know, this thing's breaking. He's like, that's what gives you gray hair. And so, I, I just remember him saying that. And it's true, you know, like we get to go into the operating room and, and, and we do what we do and we, you know, we, we love it and we know how to do surgery, but the hard part is everything else behind the scenes. Catherine Maley, MBA: I couldn't agree more. But now I don't want a forget what is with the sneakers. You have sneakers everywhere. If you everybody, well by the way, what's your website? Because people should go to your website. You look on your website, you have this gorgeous office, and then it has like a sneaker, it, it has as like a statue and it has sneakers in art. And I thought, what's with the sneaker thing? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean, I, you can probably see in the background there that I have, like, those are all piece, those are all like sneaker things from patients who have, like, I love Air Jordans. I have a collection, actually, I'm here in my home office and I have a sneaker closet of hundreds of Air Jordans up here. Really? And you've, it, it, it's kind of been leaked a little bit on my Instagram, so, it's out there. But yeah, I mean, I used to wear, prior to the pandemic, I used to wear a suit and tie mm-hmm. every day to the office. And now I am scrubs. Sneakers and that's like kind of, I expressed myself with some cool sneakers and now patients like call in. They like say, Hey, what sneakers does he have on today? They love to see me wearing kind of like these cool, outrageous sneakers. And then they like, buy me things like, this is some, there was like a mosaic back there that was made of like one of my sneaker posts on Instagram that, that a patient made. And just some like cool things. So, it's kind of become a little bit of my personality quirky. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's, it's unusual and at least you have a space for it because usually it's the woman that takes up all the closet space. And in your house, it must be you. Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. Well, this is upstairs in my home office, so, it's far away from me, it's from my wife's my wife's closet. Catherine Maley, MBA: Is she okay with your fetish? Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. Well, you know what? She used to be like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. And now and now when like a person comes to our house and she's like giving them a tour, showing them around. That's, that's her far she loves, that's her favorite part. She loves to show them the sneaker closet. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's crazy. Good for you. That's interesting. I did not see that in your personality. Usually when I see you at conferences, you know, everyone has their game face on at conferences. That's why I love these podcasts. You know, you're actually a real person. You're you. That's a really quirky, that's so, funny. I saw it on Instagram. I saw the, I didn't realize there were hundreds there. I, you definitely look like a lot, but. Okay. All right. Well thank you so, much Dr. Bloom. It has been a pleasure. I hope to see you at a meeting coming up soon because now that we're back in action and everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, if you would so, kindly subscribe to Beauty in the Biz if you haven't already, and if you have any questions for Dr. Bloom, how would they get ahold of you? Jason Bloom, MD: I mean, the best way is I told you I do my own social media. Yeah. www.instagram.com/drjbloom or www.facebook.com/bloomj. Reach out to me on social media. My Instagram is probably the easiest way. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to create steady growth in just 3 years. If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Bloom, you can reach out to his website at, www.BloomFacialPlastics.com. A big thanks to Dr. Bloom for sharing his experience on attaining steady growth in just 3 years. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Steady Growth in Just 3 Years — with Jason Bloom, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#steadygrowthcosmeticsurgeon #steadygrowthplasticsurgeon #steadygrowthaestheticpractice | |||
| Pros and Cons of Nurse Injectors — with Lisa Marie Wark, MBA (Ep.194) | 27 Feb 2023 | 00:43:23 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the pros and cons of nurse injectors. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "Pros and Cons of Nurse Injectors — with Lisa Marie Wark, MBA". Is it worth it to bring on a nurse injector to grow your cosmetic practice? The answer is…."maybe". This week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with my colleague Lisa Marie Wark, MBA. Like, me, she is a practice management consultant for cosmetic practices, and even founded and operated the first luxury medical spa in Las Vegas years ago. Here's what we covered:
Hiring a nurse injector can be the best decision you make to grow your practice or the worst nightmare if things go sideways. Learn what to consider and watch out for in this episode. Visit Lisa Marie Wark's WebsiteEnjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Transcript: Pros and Cons of Nurse Injectors — with Lisa Marie Wark, MBACatherine Maley, MBA: Hello, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the pros and cons of nurse injectors. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", and consultant of plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. Now, I have a special guest today that's a non-surgeon, and I'd like to introduce you to Lisa Marie Wark, MBA. Now she's a practice management consultant just like myself (as in an expert on the pros and cons of nurse injectors), and she's focused on business develop. Best practices as well as marketing. And she's even created and formulated beauty and wellness products for our industry. Now, Lisa Marie founded and operated the very first luxury medical spot in Vegas, and we'll ask her more about that. And then she's also, a very sought-after speaker at the medical conferences. She and I have been sharing the podium for years, like all over the us and now we're going international. So, Lisa Marie also, supports many nonprofit organizations within her community. And she's interested. Now, this is really interesting. I don't know. This was so, random. She reads and speaks Japanese fluently, so, we'll ask her about that too, along with the pros and cons of nurse injectors. So, Lisa Marie, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Oh, Catherine, thank you so, much for having me. I'm Beauty and the Biz. I'm an avid follower and I listen to your podcast religiously. So, big fan. And also, I'm a big fan of you as a consultant in the plastic surgery space. You've been around for a while and I've learned a lot from you. Catherine Maley, MBA: And that's the pleasure of this. Like I love hanging around with the competitors and some of them don't like it, and you and I just get along very, very well and I love sharing ideas and nobody has the market on all the ideas, you know? And frankly at this point there are probably not many new ideas. It's who can put them out there creatively and. And get people's attention and get people fired up, you know, for this industry. So, there, I don't, there's plenty for everybody, quite frankly. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I think a lot of times too when we get clients, it's the clients that resonate with us. And that's why they choose us because we have different styles and, you know, that's what makes us, you know, unique and also, be able to work together and to lean on each other. So, yeah, no, it's, it's wonderful to be a peer of. Catherine Maley, MBA: And that was a really good point. Not everybody jives with each other. Yeah. So, so, you would, we definitely have different personalities and so, that's a really good point. So, before I get off course, how in the world did you learn Japanese? The rest of us, usually we learn Spanish or I learn French. How did you go to Japanese? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: You know, in college, in undergrad, I went to Willamette University in Oregon and I was in the Japanese dorm and I had a Japanese roommate. And so, every day she would come in and she would actually knock on the door before she'd come into our room and her name was Como. And I said, Como, you don't have to knock on the door. This is your room too. And she would say, oh, okay. Thank you so, much. Then she turned around, come back, and knock on the door and I thought, ok, I need to learn Japanese. So, I studied Japanese for seven years, lived there for three years, and then I got my M B A in international management emphasis to East Asian Japanese techniques. Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And you were also, a news reporter, right? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: I was. I was. I've had nine lives. Who's counting? Yeah. I was a financial news anchor in San Francisco. Up the street from you? Yeah. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. I do. That is on my bucket list. I've never been, I want to go to Tokyo and I would, I'm assuming I'm like going to be the tallest person ever. Oh my gosh. You would be. You would be. You would be. I love, I, I love the culture. I love how graceful they are. I love the food. Like if I could eat sushi every day, I would that it is clean eating. So, was it, did you love the food while you were there? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: You know, I did. I got tired of fish; you know? Yes. If you went to a, if you went to, you know, McDonald's, I mean, they have McDonald's there and you were to, or like, you know, you're American and sometimes you're like, you know, I could just use a Big Mac. but unfortunately, the Big Mac would taste like fish. So, you'd be like, ah, just doesn't, it's not like America, but I love Japan and I obviously was treated very differently because of what I look like. You know, there's not a lot of, well, I had red hair, if you can believe that back in the day and people would come, I'd be sitting on the train station and. Feel people touch my hair that I didn't know. And I just, you know, it was very awkward for me to have that happen. And then people would come up and ask me if they could take my picture Oh, wow. And say, well, I don't know. You, you know, what are you using this for? And they said, ah, you know, you're, you're an American, you're a foreigner. We want to take pictures of you. So, It was a very different experience. I loved every second of it. I climbed Mount Fuji, if you can believe that, and taught English to homestay moms and to executives at N E C in Panasonic. And. The different Japanese companies and you know, I also, went to Tokyo International University. There, I was going to get into their Becca program, which is a prerequisite for learning Japanese fluently enough to get your M B A over there. Catherine Maley, MBA: I know somehow you went from that to our industry and we're glad you did. And that was like what, 15 years ago and you opened, you founded and opened your very first, the very first medical spot. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: I did, I did back in 2005. You know, it was funny. I went to San Antonio to a medical. It's a medical spa. That's what, I can't remember the name, but it was this wonderful conference and I still know people from that conference today. And what I loved about the whole concept of medical spas was that it created that spa environment, that relaxation, that calming experience with medicine. And it reminded me of. Meets West, right? Where, you know, a lot of eastern practices, medical practices are, are very they're just very calming and, and everything is about, it's, it's not so, sterile and cold. And so, I thought if we could bring that together and marry that together people would love to, you know, come in and they'd get their facials. And then we did injectables, and then we did hormone replacement therapies. So, it was the first one in Las Vegas. Wow. And how long did you own it? We were in business until 2011, and then I decided to, you know, start a family and, you know, move on to my next season of life. So, that's, that's how, that's, that's how that ended. And I started consulting and loved consulting. I went around with a wonderful architect who worked for the spa at. At Spanish Bay and at Pebble Beach Lodge and the Grand Yle. And he actually got into creating more like villas and overnight you know, care facilities for plastic surgeons. And so, he was help building those out back then, and I was writing his feasibility studies and making sure we were within. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, the reason I brought you on is because we want to talk about nurse injectors. What is happening is, I'll tell you what, what happened, why this all exploded, was the surgeons always wanted to do surgery and. I, I've known the surgeons forever, and I thought your customer service is terrible. Like, they wouldn't answer the phone. The staff wasn't friendly. The waiting was out of control, and it was just ripe for the taking because the patient with a credit card was not going to stand for that. They wanted service to go with these high prices. And the surgeons just, it's, they, it wasn't their focus. Like they didn't want to do injectables, they wanted to do surgery. So, that was. Such an opportunity for somebody to develop this medical spa concept, and now it's completely, you know, taken over. So, then the, the now the surgeon has to say, okay, some surgeons have embraced injectables and they love doing them. They like doing them themselves. They love building that relationship. Some surgeons say, I still don't want to do injectables, but I don't want to lose the patient either, right? Cause this one and done. If you're around for a while, you realize, wait a. This one and done can't be a good business model either, right? So, that was creating this this vacillating, should I get a nurse injector, should I not get one? And in some practices, they've done such a great job that nurse injector's bringing in a million or two and she's well worth the money in other practice. They're just complaining the whole time saying, oh my God, I'm giving her so, much money for what? So, that's what we're here to talk about. And you know so, much about it because not only, you know, do you consult on it, you actually experienced it. Right. So, in your own, what was your own experience when you opened up your medical spa, when you were going to bring in a nurse injector? On what criteria did you. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Well, the criteria for me, because I'm not a doctor we had a medical doctor at the time and a supervising physician. We also, had a visiting plastic surgeon that would come in and do consults. So, what I needed is someone that is a, either a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant. I didn't feel comfortable with a registered nurse just because the Nevada. Require you to have a doctor that should be on site if you're a registered nurse and you are doing any type of injectables. So, my first experience with this was hiring a physician assistant and a nurse practitioner. One Nur the nurse practitioner was actually experienced. While the physician assistant was a newbie and she was trying to gain experience in injectables because she, and like a lot of these you know healthcare providers, mid-level healthcare providers, they. They are looking to make money. They're looking to make money in injectables and create a following and then you know, take that following from your practice. And so, that was the first time that I, you know, really was around what the politics, right, of hiring someone, having them come in, interface with the patients, do the procedures. And then the question was, whose patient? Are they, because a lot of times the, you know, PA or the nurse practitioner will say, well, really that's my patient. I've been injecting that patient. That patient comes to me, that patient's going to follow me if I leave this this medical spa or if, or practice. And so, you really. It was really a quandary at the time as to, gee, you know, how do I protect my business from losing patients when the, when the injector walks out the door. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's the big question. When you bring somebody on board, are you trying to bring an experienced person that has a following? Because I love that idea. If you can make it work and get the right person, what a great team, because she just brought an influx of patients to you and. So, so, you haven't, oh, you know, there's your marketing for the year. You know, she's got, she's brought the whole group with, however, on the other hand, she's one of those people who knows everything and she, she thinks she's the boss and she doesn't do well. You know, w you know, working under a doctor, so, what do, what do you think is better? Do you hire or do you hire a brand new one and, and they're green and you hire and train them yourself and, and then hope they catch on and hope they're going to ejector because they have no experience. And you can't afford, in today's world, too, you can't afford bad results. You don't need any Guinea pigs. You know, your patients don't want to be Guinea pigs you know, training somebody else. So, what, what's what, what would you suggest bringing on a newbie or an…? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Well, it really depends on the type of practice, right? So, we talked in the beginning, we talked about plastic surgeons. They start their practice and a lot of them aren't as busy as they'd like to be in the, OR doing surgeries. So, to supplement that income, they start doing, you know, non-invasive procedures like injectables. And so, when they first start out, the injectables are some money that's coming in. Their or is not at full capacity. So, they bring in someone that, well first they don't bring in anybody in, right? They, they're doing it all. Then they start to realize, listen, I need to bring someone in because I don't want to be doing injectables. I'm a surgeon. I belong in the OR. So, you can either have someone who comes in as a newbie, but when they come in as a newbie, you really need to. Protect the practice. And that means that they need to know that the patients that you're feeding them, meaning feeding the, the injector that those are the practices patients. And how is that, like how do you how do you explain that to the injector is you say, well, Who, when you think of the patient, who is the patient paying? Is the patient paying that injector or is that patient paying the practice? And just that answer alone is going to tell you it's the patient, the patient belongs to the practice. The second thing that, that when you bring in an injector, even if it's a newbie or an experienced. Is, you know, what kind of social media policy are you going to implement at that time? A lot of times you see plastic surgery, you see medical, any type of medical spas, they, they allow their injector to have their own Instagram account and the Instagram followers, well, that hurts your... Because that should be under the umbrella of your practice. So, whenever I would hire an injector, regardless if they had a following or not, I would make sure that the social media is under. Let's say, for example, Smith Plastic Surgery, it'd be Smith Plastic Surgery injectables. So, there is no question as to who those patients belong to. So, going back to, is it a, is it a newbie or is it someone who has a following? Well, that just depends on how much money are you willing to spend. A lot of practices when they first start out or when they're getting going, they can't afford to pay. 400,000 a year. To an experienced with a large following injector or starting at 40 to $60 an hour for a, a registered nurse that's a lot of money. For, for a, for a practice, for a, for a medical spa. So, you really need to look at, well, am I going to pay that person? On a base pay. And what does that mean? What are the job descriptions and the roles and responsibilities of that employee? Or are you going to have it as an independent contractor? Are they just coming in and you're doing a 10 99 form and you, they log in the hours that they've spent with you, they send you, they give you an invoice, and then you pay off that invoice. So, there's many different ways to set up an agreement with an injector, but always make sure that your practice is being protected. Catherine Maley, MBA: I highly recommend when you are bringing somebody on board, have them sign an NDA or a non-compete, and the first thing somebody says is, well, you can't hold those up in court. It's not, that's not the point. The point is, is if they're not going to sign it, they're telling you right now. They're, they're, it's a yellow flag, a red flag, whatever color you want, That's, that's a clue that they're not thinking the same way you are. And I would also, have them sign the social media policy. And that means everybody, all photos are watermark and all posts go to this practice. She can't have her own, she's not building her practice on your. You know, in your name. So, or it has to all stay together and if she won't sign, he or she won't sign those two agreements. Then I would say it's a no-go because it'll be, it'll, if it goes sideways. That kind of stuff gets ugly. Exactly. You know, and you don't need that negativity. But, you know, a lot of this, you do have some responsibility. If you hire the right person, you've got to take care of them and respect them and make them feel part of the team. Because I've talked to plenty of nurse injectors and they feel used and abused and the, the ones that aren't happy, you know, so, it goes, it goes two ways. I would, I would hire slowly. I also, what do you think about hiring the competitors? Like when the nurse comes to you and says, Hey, I work for your competitor, but I. I'd love to come over to you. How, how would you handle that? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: You know what I it's always a red flag for me, and I'll tell you why, because obviously, or not obviously, but you really need to look and see if they've signed a non-compete clause with the other doctor and. If, if, let's say, if they have, and they haven't told you about it, you don't need that bad blood between another doctor or another practice. You, we all need to, you know, be amicable, work together, so, to speak. There's plenty of business out there for all of us, and so, we want to, you know, we, we want to be on the up and up as opposed to. You know, doing something shady and taking on an injector that signed a non-compete clause and an n d A agreement was someone that, that you know, and is, is a neighboring plastic surgeon or medical spa. Catherine Maley, MBA: And a lot of times if I were the surgeon, I would pick up the phone and call the other surgeon and Oh yeah, one-on-one and just say, you know what? I just want you to know Susan was in here looking for a job. What's up? You know? Yeah. I, I would just I would be that transparent in today's world because you can head off an awful lot of drama at the front end rather than at the back end when you have to deal. Just a lot of bad blood. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: That's true. That's true. And you also, have to make sure they have active licenses. A lot of times they'll come in and they'll say, oh yeah, I've done this and this and this. Okay, well let me see your license. And it has to be in good standing just to protect yourself. There's a, I mean, sadly there's a lot of. People out there that will say anything, you know, really to get the job, but you really need to do your due diligence as an employer and really find out, okay, you know, did they sign in noncompete with someone else? Do they have a good standing? Is there license active? You know, you really need to make sure that those references have are clear. Sometimes you need to even to do a background check. In fact, I recommend background checks. Anytime I hire someone. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you a story about that. I was consulting with a group in, I'll just say Texas cause it's big enough that nobody will know what I'm talking about. And she was a nurse injector there for a couple years. Really resisted my consulting, very much resisted it because I was digging in and asking questions. And long story short, it turns out she had, she had called Allergan a year ago and changed the accounts. So, all of the money that Allergan gives back to the practices was going into her own account. By the time they found out they were 200 grand out. Oh, and he the surgeon actually pressed charges and somehow, they're still, it was like pending forever. And she had the audacity to get a job with the competitor right there in the neighborhood. And I don't, and the competitor was also, a little on the shady side, I guess. So, they were meant for each other, but. That surgeon lost so, much sleep over that and so, much negativity and what a shame, like. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah. Well, it's a shame because you start to invest in that, in that employee or that independent contractor, you start training them. You start you know transferring institutional knowledge about your, your practice, about your medical spa, about your organization, and. It becomes a waste. It all becomes, you know it, it just, you, you don't get that return on your investment. In fact, you lose money as the moment you find out something like that because they're taking all of that out the door. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, another tip would be everything should be set up as a profit center on, on its own because they were such a big practice. Nobody was noticing. The money was missing because they had a lot of big numbers going. But if they had practiced like a silo, like the injectable silo, the skincare was a silo. The lasers were a silo, they would've caught that much faster. Oh, oh yeah. I highly recommend that. Yeah. Let's talk about pay because it is all over the board. It matters where you live. It matters what your overhead is. A, a nurse here in California is a joke. It's ridiculously expensive versus maybe, I don't know, somebody. I don't know, Oklahoma, I'm sure it's very different. Correct? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah, no, it's all over the place when it comes to, you know when it comes to you know, compensation. Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, there are so, many different scenarios, but the major ones are usually number one, you either hire them as an employee and you just pay them an hourly period. Right. And they get perks. Cause some of them, like the employee perks, some of them actually are looking for stability. Because they, they've tried to do this on their own. They've tried to be this, the traveling injector, and it doesn't, it's. Sexy as it seems. Yeah. So, a lot of them are just ready to settle. They want to find a home, they want benefits. They want to just do their nine to five, but make them full-time, that kind of thing. Okay. So, they're employee, right? Another way is to make them an employee but give them less of a base pay and then give them some incentive to go above and beyond that. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Right, right. And so, so, you can start, okay, so, first of all, you can start with just a commission, right? And I recommend that a commission, when you have an experienced injector, who has a, a, a large following, right? Because you are only going to, you are only going, she's only going to get her commission based off of the money she brings in off of the revenue. The injector generates, right? So, when, let's say, let's say just for example and this is a very low number, but let's just say she brings in your injector, brings in 10,000 a month, right? And let's say you, your, you're base monthly commission based off of a hundred thousand is 18%. So, right there, she's getting 1800 a month, and this is 10,000. Listen, people can make that in a day, less than a day, $10,000 on injectables. So, right there, right, she's, her annual commission would be, you know let's say $22,000, right? That's her annual commission. Now, let's say sh you have an injector that does 30,000. A month. So, you're looking at the annual revenue generated as 360,000 a year. Right? So, let's say you increase her, her monthly base commission to 22%. Now you're looking at, she's making 6,600 a month just based off of commission, and her annual commission is about 80,000 a month or 80,000 a year. So, it all, I mean, You know, it, it's all negotiable is what I'm saying. But the, but what we really want to be careful is, is that we don't want to give 40, 50% commission off of. Generated revenue sales, right? So, you don't want to say, I will give you 50% or 40% off your gross commission because someone has to buy the products, right? Somebody has to buy the office supplies, somebody has to pay for the overhead, and usually that's the practice. Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what when it comes to the money part, because sometimes the doctors get caught up on, I've heard this over and over, I'm going to pay her six figures. No way. Like all they see is that six figures. But if she was bringing in a million. That that's 10%, that's fine. You know, like, just keep remembering. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: There's a, a, a math problem there, there is a math problem. You want to stay between 18 to 23% on any type of gross commission generated from the revenue coming in. That, that, that, that injector generates you don't want to go over 25%, otherwise it's not sustainable. It's just not sustainable for the way I… Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, the way I look at it, just generally speaking, when it's all said and done, when you know your costs, you know, your fixed costs, your variable, your commissions, when it's all said and done, if you can keep 25% profit margin, you can't make 25% any more, any, like in the stock market. So, if you can make it there, because your business is still probably your best business investment, you'll make then I would say it, it's a go. Yeah. If it's anything under that, I would say, You don't need the hassle. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: No. And then, and then you got to think about it too. Let's say you do a base pay. So, let's say you're going to give someone $50 for them coming in. I would, their commission, I would have between two to 4% commission based on the revenue that comes in. So, here again, we're looking at numbers, right? But let's say you work 24 hours a week on $50 an hour. Your, your monthly salary is going to be over 5,000 a month. And then if you, let's say you generate $30,000 in revenue, you're going to at 4% your base monthly commission's going to be $1,200. So, add that you're going to hit 14,000, so, your total, total compensations are almost $80,000 for your base pay and your commission. and was that part-time? That could be 24 hours a week. Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. So, yeah, that's part-time because one of the issues I have with the part-time in today's world, you're just trying to get really good at this because it's so, uber competitive now. You're going to win if you are. A smooth-running operation than if you're not. A lot of money is lost in the processes or lack thereof, right? It's so, difficult to build a team and a smooth operation when people are coming and going, like when they're. They're not there all the time. And team building's really tough when one person's, the prim donna who comes in just twice a day, twice a week, and then Jackson leaves and then the, and they, they're not building a team effort. So, and I don't know what the answer is. I'm just trying to give the variables. What kind of practice are you trying to. And can you do it with part-timers? And I will tell you it's way more difficult to do it that way. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: It is, it is way more difficult. You can have someone that's, let's say is your sole injector. And a client that I've had had the, the injector had the L l C, the injector bot. All of the products. Oh. And then, and then gave that plastic surgeon a percentage, right. Of what she brought in. Well, she obviously brought in a million, and then she gave him 400,000 and she kept 600,000. Right. So, and he, and, and the whole thing is he's like, well, I want to build, you know, a bigger injector. You know, I want to scale my inject, you know, my injector. And she was like, why? What's the point? I'm making good enough money. I don't need to, so, it you, your kind of, there is that, you know that mark there where they lose the incentive. There's no more incentive to build the business. So, you're kind of stuck. Catherine Maley, MBA: How interesting though, that she, she paid for everything. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: She, yeah, she was a pa and she paid for the, she paid for it all. He didn't want to worry about it. And so, she, and he fed her, all of her patients and, and then she put it under her LLC. Okay. Catherine Maley, MBA: Very interesting. I would just say where a lot of it goes sideways is the doctor's not watching the money. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? So, Oh, yeah. I just wouldn't take that car blanche. Oh, okay. Thanks for the 400. Like, I, and, and he, it was almost like a gift, you know, I, yes. That I just would never. Abdicate the accounting, you know, just, yeah. Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: No, you have to count your pennies as a physician, even when you don't have time. You really have to. Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, yeah, somebody has to because you've got to know, is this a profitable system that we're running here? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah. Your bookkeeping, your accounts receivables. Your accounts payables. Yeah. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. That's the only way to do that. So, that's really interesting. What do you think about Who's medical? If somebody comes in, like a nurse comes in, that who's liable? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Like how liable is a practice for a contractor or like a…? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Right. You know, a contractor needs to, they need to carry their own medical malpractice, right? Because no matter whatever happens, That patient is going to go after the doctor for sure. They go after the deepest pockets and they will go after the, the injector. They go after both. But I recommend that the injector has also, insurance to help you know, protect the, protect the, the providers., Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you say most of them do, and should you be asking that during the hiring process? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yes. Yes, you should. You should be asking for that, especially if they're an independent contractor. If they're an employee, it's under the preview or the purview of the Of the physician. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you think a lot of them are covered? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Personally, I don't think that, I don't think they are. I don't think they are. Catherine Maley, MBA: I've never heard of it. Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Have you seen it? I don't think they're, I asked for it. I asked, I said, well, what's your medical malpractice? Oh, well I need to get that. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yeah. Interesting. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. What do you think about the injector? Who's the traveling injector in the area and she works for three different competitors? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Oh gosh. It's, it's, it could be a big Hornet, you know, nest if, if something happens, you don't, you know, it might be a great thing at first, she's going to a salon, but, You know, she also, needs to make sure that the medical director knows exactly what she's doing, where she's going. The medical director needs to sign off on her charts. It depends on, is it a nurse, is it a pa, is a nurse practitioner? It can be messy in all these different places just because. Well, if they're using an E M R it might be easier, but back in the day when they would have all these charts and then, you know, they'd have to leave the charts there because you really can't take the charts everywhere because you don't want anyone to get into, you know, for HIPAA violations or anything like that. But I prefer you just stay in one location and if you grow out of that location, then you can have a second location and, and hire someone else to, you know, help you with injecting. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we're, we're probably being really negative because, but we want the audience to know that you want to watch out for this because it can be the stickiest relationship. You have it. Well, next to bringing a partner on, you know, that's another Yeah. Yeah. But my tips would be, hire slowly. Yes. Time. Really know who this person. Mentally, psychologically, reputation, credentials, all know them well. I definitely would do back background checks. I'm shocked at how many shady people there are out there. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Oh, a hundred percent, yes. Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, I've seen some people on mugshots.com for God's sakes. You know, so, I don't know why. Yeah, How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: I know. I shouldn't laugh. I mean, I, I believe you. It's, we're, we're very naive and you know, a lot of physicians and my father's a physician they don't learn business in medical school. Right. So, they're very trusting people and that's a good part about them. And then it's also, can be very dangerous for them in. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and, but they're also, not at all interested in business typically. So, they'd rather abdicate that whole thing and hope it all works out fine. And they just want to know the bottom line, you know, how much did she cost me? Yeah. So, I, but you know, so, you have to take some responsibility for that. So, I would say the ones that I have seen work the best. Yeah. I will just do this. The ones that work the best, they're full-time. They have very clear. Tasks very clear. It was all done in writing at the beginning. This is what I expect from you. They signed the non-compete, even if it weren't going to, they signed the non-compete, they signed the social media policy. They were they're told very specifically; all watermarks go on all our photos. We own the patient, obviously, that you can't hold everyone to it, but the more that's discussed upfront, but then treat them like a team. Don't treat them, don't treat them differently. Don't treat them like a pre-Madonna either. You know, like when they start calling the doctor by his first name because they think they're, you know one-on-one with the doctor. That I would say those are some of the signs. They won't sign anything. They resist anything in the office, like team meetings. They won't show up for team things. They won't show up for trainings or meetings. They leave early. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah, all of that is red flags. If you have someone that works like that in your office, and I don't care how great of an injector they are they're just not a team player. They don't belong in your, in your, you know, practice it, it creates. it really creates some kind of toxic work environment because everybody else is going and everybody else's team building and everybody else, you know, is really trying to, you know, make the practice the best that they can possibly do. And then when you have someone who doesn't want to join the meeting or leaves early, comes in late, that's, you know, that's unacceptable. You, it doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if you're the injector or if you're the esthetician or if you're the front office person. We all are a team when it comes down to it, and we all rely on each other. And to have a Pri Madonna in your office really is a strain on the other employee. Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll give one last tip that I have learned through my own experience. Yes. That injector needs to know that all arrows point to surgery. A lot of the injectors never, they, it's their patients, they protect their patients, but a really good injector works as a team with the surgeon and she or he is the funnel to the surgeon. So, when I show up in a practice, I want in-house. in her treatment room, and it's all about surgery. Like and the patient who's waiting for their Botox or filler to be, you know, prepared, they look over at a digital photo frame and they see tummy tuck, breast dog, breast lift, mommy makeover. And they're like, what? So, today they're there for filler tomorrow they could be there for tummy tuck and that. Injector needs to have some type of paper trail. I personally like paper trails. So, she could have a cute little comp card. A comp console card. Yes. And, you know, and she hands it and because the patient looks over and says, wow, can you tell me more about that tummy tuck? And she said, I can do better. We have we charge the doctor, it costs, you know, $200 to see him for his time, but because you know me, I can get you in there for free. So, here's a comp consult card. Perfect. And literal., there's a paper trail straight from that cord that injector to that surgeon, and now we know that she's working as a team member. And then the doctor can always give the patient back again to the, to the injector. Like it's such small thinking, thinking, no, no, no, I'm going to keep everything with me. That's not how you work this. You know, a good surgical patient will go up the ladder, back down to nonsurgical, back up to surgical, back down to nonsurgical. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Absolutely. I mean, if you think about it, just like when you say abdominoplasty or liposuction or whatever that patient might be inquiring about, it's, it's imperative for you to refer that patient to the surgeon for many reasons. One that's, they want that result and then that surgeon should refer back to the medical spa, for example. And let's say do maintenance like m sculpt or cool sculpting use machines that can help maintain the surgery. So, it, it works together. It's not just one, it's not just one procedure over another. for sure. Yeah. And there's also, one other thing that I forgot to discuss about, about injectors is that if you were training an injector and you were doing all this advanced training, which we all know is not, Inexpensive. It's very expensive to train, especially advanced training. I am, I, I like to implement an aesthetic educational agreement with your injector, and essentially what that means is saying that if I invest in training for you to have to know advanced techniques and to be able to. You know, do I don't know, Russian lips or P D O threads, you are obligated. The injector is obligated to stay an amount of time with that practice until that training investment has been paid off. So, I think that's a really big we don't really talk about it, but I know like a lot of injectors, they want all this training, training, training, training, training only to walk out the door. Right. And, you know, you really want to keep them there. Catherine Maley, MBA: And, but it's the same thing with that. If they won't sign it, that's a big sign. If they will sign it, it could still go sideways. But at least you, you set the expectations ahead of time, you know? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Exactly, exactly. Catherine Maley, MBA: Better all the way around. Yeah. So, that pretty much wraps it up. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Do you have any final words or anything else you want? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: No, I don't, but it's so, great to see you and I, I put a light on me because it just got dark, so. See me. I don't know if you notice. No, I saw that. Oh my God. Is that me in there? Catherine Maley, MBA: No. I've literally been on these zoom calls where it was getting darker and darker and I'm sitting still and the light is way across the room. I'm like, I can't get over there. I don't and I just started talking faster. So, Lisa Marie, thank you. So, much for being on. How can people get ahold of you if they want to learn more? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors? Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Sure. Okay, so, you can go to my website, www.LisaMarieWark.com. You can email me at lisa@lisamariewark.com, or you can call me. It's (702) 374-1944. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on the pros and cons of nurse injectors. If you've got any questions or feedback for Lisa Marie Wark, MD, you can reach out to her website at, www.LisaMarieWark.com. A big thanks to Lisa Marie for sharing her experience on the pros and cons of nurse injectors. And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "Pros and Cons of Nurse Injectors— with Lisa Marie Wark, MBA".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#nurseinjectors #consofnurseinjectors #prosofnurseinjectors #lisamariewark | |||
| 6k B&A Photos, plus Just for Men — with Sam Lam, MD (Ep.193) | 17 Feb 2023 | 01:00:08 | |
📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine ⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days ⬇️⬇️⬇️ Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and 6k B&A Photos and Just for Men. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called "6k B&A Photos, plus Just for Men — with Sam Lam, MD". One of the biggest complaints I hear is the reluctance of patients to share their B/A photos. I used to believe that too. Until I met surgeons who have thousands of B/A photos of their patients on their website, on their social media and on Ipads in their office. How is that possible? Why can one practice collect thousands and others can't? In this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I let Dr. Sam Lam answer that question for us. Dr. Lam is a facial plastic surgeon with 20 years of experience in private practice in Plano, TX. He focuses on face and hair transplantation, and still manages to collect lots of social proof from his happy patients, willing to share. Here are other topics we talked about:
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA ⬇️ FREE BOOK: ✅ STAY UPDATED: 🌐 Catherine's Website 🤝 LET'S CONNECT: ➡️ Instagram Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE! Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz. If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. "The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Transcript: 6k B&A Photos, plus Just for Men — with Sam Lam, MDCatherine Maley, MBA: Hello, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and 6k B&A photos and "just for men" . I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. Now I have a really special guest today. It's Dr. Sam Lam. It's Samuel Lam, but I just love his name. Sam Lam. Can't miss that. Now, he's a board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon with 20 years of experience and in private practice in Plano, Texas where he's from actually. He also has a lot of experience with 6k B&A photos and "just for men" . So, Dr. Lam completed his undergrad degree at Princeton and his medical degree at Baylor College of Medicine. Then he trained for six years in head and neck surgery at Columbia University. In New York, and then he completed a fellowship in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery as well as hair restoration and a "just for men" component to his practice. Now, Dr. Lam has written over 250 articles, book chapters, and eight major medical textbooks, including the first textbook series on hair transplantation. So, Dr. Lam lectures. Hair transplant courses all over the world. He's been featured on CNN, CBS, ABC, Fox, and many other media channels. I met him many years ago. He's been on the podium forever around the world talking about marketing. He's a really good marketer, by the way. So, we're going to dive into the business side of your practice and learn more about 6k B&A photos and "just for men" . Dr. Lam, thank you so, much for joining me. Sam Lam, MD: Thanks, Catherine. I appreciate it. I'm glad to be here. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. So, why facial plastic surgery and "just for men"? I always wondered that because when I was growing up, I never heard of facial plastic surgery. I heard of plastic surgery, but how did you land on facial plastic surgery? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Well, it was it was actually during my otolaryngology residency that a guy gene Tardy, who was my mentor, ed Williams' mentor, and he came in a very patrician guy, very well dressed, and he started talking about rhinoplasty. And I'm an artist at heart. I paint every day and. I just like, wow, this is beautiful. I mean, my whole life is driven by beauty, and so, even now, 20 years out, I'm probably one of the few guys that do, does his own injections as well as his own surgery. Because I just, I'm just passionate about all of it. I, you know, for me it's, it, it took me from a position where I was doing the same procedures over and over again, and then now every, every patient is different than. Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, how, what was your, just quickly, what was your journey from, you graduate, you did your fellowship, you're out, and how did you enter the marketplace and establish a "just for men" component? Did you go to a hospital? Did you go solo right away? How was that journey? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Well, I had a very nice cushion, and unfortunately from the business side of, of things, it's, it's, it's obviously not something everyone can get. I, I was literally in and not figuratively, literally my dad's toilet. So, my dad was a family doctor and he had a toilet that I, I needed, I needed. I have an office, so, he took it out and that was my office. So, it was very nice because I lived at home. I wasn't married and, and he basically they covered, my staff, covered everything. And I was in a very small office for a fam, you know, family doctor in, in Richardson, which is an area that has mainly Asians. I trained a, a few months after my fellowship to learn. Asian cosmetic surgery and the Asians came in and they said, oh, this guy is affordable, which is perfect for me. And other people that were that, that, that were not Asian, were like this guy, I, I, I don't think he can know. He knows what he is doing. So, I started with him for a couple years. My mom, who was really a Is ne was never a developer, that she is the brains and the vision and the trust in me as a person that I'd even trust and built this at the time was 27,000 square foot wellness building that became 45,000 square feet. And that's another thing we can talk about, but she really, I would love to take credit for it, but she's the one that built that. And. That's how that in about two years morphed into an amazing, insane center that I would love to take credit for, but I can't. Catherine Maley, MBA: By the way we're going to talk about it, but you have to go on his website, Lam facial plastics.com and check out the tour. It's quite impressive and especially the "just for men" component. Yeah, it's right up there with like one of the best I've ever seen. So, how did you divvy up the services? Because are you still doing recons? At all? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Not, not anymore. I, I leave the reconstructive on my website only because its, people love to see that the song, there's a little tag of warning of, yeah, it could be a little graphic. And I, when I started my practice I said, look, and when I didn't have a lot of rhinoplasty before and after is I said, look, I can put a nose back on the face. And they go, okay, so, I'll, I'll do, I'll let, I'll let you do my nose. So, no, not a lot of recons anymore. You know, some keloids and things like that. But mainly it's cause — Catherine Maley, MBA: Then how do you divvy up your time and with your "just for men" component? Because you are getting so, well known for Rhino, but you also, do bleph. I'm, I'm sorry, for hair transplant, right? So, you do a lot of hair transplantation, then some rhino, then some facelifts. How are you? Divvying N And you do your own injectables. So, how do you divvy up your time? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: So, the way that, that my, my, the, the way the work, the way that the week works is I, I, Monday and Wednesday are my big hair days. So, I do either one big strip or f u e case, then one big one on Wednesday, and that's in the morning. I'm usually done. If it's, if it's a strip procedure, I'm done about 10 30. If I'm doing an f u e, I'm done about 1230. I, and then I in the afternoons will be consults, injectables, small procedures, blepharoplasties, little things in the office, whatnot. Tuesdays and Thursdays are my big face days. I do either a facelift rhinoplasty fat graft, bluff, whatever may be bigger procedures on those two days. Thursdays, I may switch out with a hair or I, or vice versa. I may fill in a hair a face on a Thurs on a, on a Wednesday. So, these are just, there's a little bit of flexibility. And then the afternoon's the same thing, small procedures. And then Fridays are my non-surgical days. I usually don't do any big surgeries on that day, and I just, I just, the day just fills in, to be honest with you. I just go back and forth a little bit here and there and run back and forth. Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have a preference for the procedures you like the most, in regards to your "just for men" component? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: I love it all. I, I love it all. I mean, you know, I just, everything is for me is creative and fun and I just, the way, you know, for me, I find that people. They oftentimes surgeons give up the injectables. They, you know, I understand that from a money perspective, you get someone else to do it, it makes sense. But I love it and I find that there's so, much overdone fillers and great facelifts and that it, it doesn't look right or vice versa. You get really good fillers in bad surgery and doesn't look right. So, I look at myself as sort of Apple, Inc. I mean, I control the end-to-end user experience. So, I, my patients look good when they come out. I only, things I don't do is like I p l and you know, microneedles and stuff like that, but anything that requires an artistic eye and control, I, I do it all. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, your business model, you've got with your "just for men" component. Yeah. 45,000 square feet of facility. That is remarkable. It's got. More than one water fountain or water flow thing. Oh, dear Lord, if the place is gorgeous, but somebody has to pay for all of that. So, as far as I can tell on your website, you look like the only revenue generator. Who, so, who's on your team helping you make money? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Well, for my, for my center, it is mainly me, to be honest with you. It's probably not the best business model, but it's a business model that works for me because obviously I know people do better with 10 injectors and everything. Now I have people that do all the non-invasive little small things as we talked about. There's a lot, I've got a lot of lasers. They do all those things. I don't do any of the. The little laser things, but the vast majority of the revenue comes from me. Now, there are things like, we do this thing called hair stem, which basically it's an infusion therapy instead of p r p that helps with stimulating hair. There are a lot of little things that are, I, I can't even name so, many little things, but they do all that. But the vast majority of the profit still comes in mind from my hands. Catherine Maley, MBA: How, how can you, your overhead must be insane and also with your "just for men" component. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Well, let me clarify. The 45,000 square feet is not mine. I have about 10,000. Okay. So, so, I've got a, a spa that I, I lease to that's, you know pretty large six, 7,000. I've got a. A huge salon that's across the way. I've got a dentist; I've got a marriage counselor. I've got a person that does eastern cupping medicine. I've got these med suites that's about 6,000 square feet that, that has Ayurvedic medicine hair systems. I've got, I can't even think of it. There's so, many different things. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, those are all tenants. Okay. So, are you the owner of the… How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Yes. Yeah. And they're tenants. Catherine Maley, MBA: okay. So, that's actually an incredibly interesting business model, with your "just for men" component. But do you have any control over any of them, or are they just, because I look at them as alliances. They're a beautiful feeder to you, to what you're doing, or are they, has it turned out to be like a reciprocal but not? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Not as much as, so, I tell, you know, from a business perspective, I tell. Young people coming into this, don't overfocus on that being such an essential element. There are a few reasons. So, first of all, we're all in it for ourselves. We're driving ourselves. And so, yeah, I send people there. They send me people. I wouldn't say it's necessarily more than from external sources. And then of course, if you've got a salon in your, your space, other salons may feel like, oh, I, they're not going to send me people or vice versa through, so, it's not necessarily. The most beneficial relationship. I look at it as just a long-term equity play to exit. And, you know, a lot of people are trying to sell their business in a way. I don't even have to. I can retire in my building. So, so, that is, I, if you look at it from a long-term equity play, it's great if you worried about trying to cross feed each other. Yeah. Okay. But it's not correct. I, and then, and then I, I made some mistakes along the way. I, I owned the Jose Bar Salon that was in my place, and I didn't revenue a lot. And it was great because in the sense I, I learned never to do that again. And I learned that I'm, I just, it's not my blue flame. It's not the area that I. I'm good at. I don't own the time to manage it, and I own the spa. I, I didn't make much money on the spa. And, and so, now that someone else is, that owns like eight centers in Dallas, they do it. And, and, and when I was initially starting, I was worried about having a. You know, having someone else doing Botox in my building now I've got multiple doing it. I don't care because I, I've established myself and my med spa offers it. It's, I don't even own the med spa. They, they do their own thing. If they don't refer to me because of it, I'm busy enough right now that I'm not so, worried that I, I'm looking this, that I own the building or my mom owns the building. To be honest with you, it's, it's, it's to be clear and, and, and the future, I'll own it, but that is something that doesn't worry. That is so, interesting. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you don't have to manage these people. They all have their own separate LLCs or whatever. So, when you sell. Yeah, you are not, you can't sell all of it. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? You can only sell your piece of the practice and everyone else, all the — Sam Lam, MD: No, no. So, this is not a condo. It's not a condo. It's a, they're, they're rent paying rent, so, they don't own any of this. I, I, I will own the whole building and the real estate, everything. So, they're, so, when someone purchases it from me, they're buying everything. They're not having to worry about condos at. Catherine Maley, MBA: Interesting. Wow. That's, wow. Do you have any plans, like how I, you're certainly too young to even think about exiting, but do you have any plans? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Well, yeah, I mean, eventually what I want to do is sell out and I'll rent from, I'll rent from the owner, you know, because and I'm fine with that, you know, so, I, my exit is not, I'm not, so, I'm, I, I'm not so, worried that I have to exit my business. I, I make enough revenue from what I do. I'm looking at the building as my. Right. I the real estate. Right. It's the, it's the real estate, right? Catherine Maley, MBA: There's, there's so, much equity and built up in that after all those, all after years go by. My gosh. Yeah. I think that's a brilliant idea. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? By the way, the real estate, just like McDonald's, it's not about the hamburgers, it's about, but I also, but I also, tell people too, an — Sam Lam, MD: Are we talking about the business side or is that, have I dive too fast into that? So, the, so, the, the, the thing is, I would, I, I would caution people when they hear that to say, oh man, I'm going to go get this big building and I'm going to do all that. The, the, the very honest truth is you can do really well. By investing in something else. You don't have to; you can invest in some other real estate. You can invest in some other business you don't have; it doesn't have to be yours. A lot of doctors have this mental idea and including me that we have to own where we work. I think if we can divorce the concept and say, look, if, if it works for you and you got the prime place to where you want to be and it all makes sense, do it. Otherwise, don't worry so, much. Even if you lease or rent for 10 or 20 years, if you're making good revenue here and you've got a better business proposal somewhere else to exit on, do that. Catherine Maley, MBA: I think they get such peace of mind from it. I know just being a homeowner, I just have a lot of peace of mind that nobody can kick me out. I control my destiny there. And it's like a little ATM machine if you ever need it, cause the equity's there. So, I see why they do that and be, especially in today's world, I don't know how many young guys can join you and buy you out. I mean, I don't like who's going to buy you out. I you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: That's, that's exactly the case. And so, that's why I'm not quite as worried about that exit, which is a different mindset. You know, my, my building is my exit. It's not, now, of course, I'm going to have someone come in and groom and, and build into the thing, or maybe it goes to VC at some point. I don't even know. But right, right now I'm not so, worried about that exit as, as important as, as the other component. Catherine Maley, MBA: What about the surgical center? Is it, is it as big of a deal as the office looks like? How many suites do you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Well, so, for, for the surgery center, I started with only one because it was for me. And so, what I do now is I have sort of two And so, let me explain what sort of means I do. One of the rooms is I, I build for my hair, hair, hair transplants. I don't need general anesthesia for it. It is completely med Gass ready to go. And so, what happens is I have a, a plastic surgeon that does body work does some face, but he basically does like 99% body work. And he comes in and the days I do hair in that, in the hair room, he uses. The surgery center to do the body stuff. And then, you know, if in the future if I get busy enough or I want to exit on that, or I want to sell this as a surgery center, then I can easily, basically, it's ready, it's, it's ready to get it's gassed. I just need to put in a general anesthesia machine to do that if someone wants to do that. So, As a separate entity, as a profit center, profit center to sell that out. Right now, it's not built in for that. It would make a lot of sense. I did have discussions with the plastic surgeon to come in as a tenant and, and to buy over time some shares on the surgery center. You know, a lot of physicians are very risk averse. They just don't see that as something that makes sense. But it's a no-brainer for me for where he was going to come in and do that. But, you know, it's, I, I'm not sweating it, you. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that plastic surgeon, your business arrangement with him, is it, is it completely, he rent some space and that's it? Or do you have a, a relationship? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: No, he just comes in and uses my, my center and so, I, he is just using dead, dead air, so, to speak, you know? Gotcha. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I mean, I, I've, I've seen it go both ways. I've seen the surgeons who have put millions into a multi suite or thinking that the surgeons in the area will come to him, you know, to come do surgery there. That was way more difficult than they ever expected. They had, they had to go out of their, like the plastic surgeons wouldn't come, so, they had to go with orthopedic surgeons or, I mean, they, they scrambled, you know, to build a time there and it was just one more big headache that they had to manage. So, I've just heard such mixed reviews, like sometimes they were sorry, they ever got involved and they should have just kept it small. Like any thoughts about…? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: You know, I mean, to be honest with you, you need to have good people working around you to help you. So, if you are going to do that, the problem with cosmetic work is you don't, it, it, you don't make money on that from a surgery center. You need, if you really want to make money on a surgery center, you need insurance. And the problem with that, that's a whole different level and it depends on what level you want to take it. A friend of mine does bariatric work. He's got a great surgical facility that does all the insurance stuff. For him, it makes sense because he does insurance. But if you're a cosmetic guy. I, I think if you are, unless if you want to go into the surgery center business, then you got to go into, from an insurance perspective, if you really want to put plastic surgeons together, too many egos going around. There's no compensation at the level of a, of a surgery facility. It just makes no sense to me. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I did watch somebody in California many years ago. He, he was, 6 million building the place out as he's building California. Took away all the insurance for breast reduction and workers comp and all of that. It just changed overnight. And he's like, crap, what am I going to do? And that really hurt a lot. And then somebody else came in and decided to do all the transgender. Yeah. And in California, I couldn't believe this, but they were. Transgender patient was insured by up to a hundred grand for, you know whatever it is whatever you call it. Gender…? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Gender, affirmation, surgery. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's a huge business, so, It just depends, you know, like where, where you want to go with that. But it did, it completely destroyed his cosmetic side. Mm-hmm., because it's a completely different world. It's a different patient, it's a different emotional background. And it, it, the two did not gel at all. But when you just take that piece of it, the transgender part of that, I've watched some practices just crush it. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: There's, it's so, many, there's so, many right answers and wrong answers to everything. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, do, do you plan on ever like, bringing in another person? Another? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: No, no. I, I actually have the physical space for it now. I just don't have the bandwidth. The problem, honestly, several things. Number one is staffing has been a nightmare the last two years. Just trying to make sure that I'm, I'm having. Staffing for me has already been very difficult. So, until that part of the equation is solved, the answer is no. The other thing to me right now is you know, there's, I, I need to find, I think, you know, ed always told me, ed Williams always told me, he says, don't bring someone on board unless you're willing to slow down. Yeah. Or exit on it. And I'm not either one. I, I really love what I do and I, I don't run a crazy business where I have to. I am running all over the place, but I, I don't do, I do like two to three transplants a week, two to three major surgeries a week, and a ton of small ones. And then of course, a ton of injectables and I'm happy, so, I just don't have the room or bandwidth to have someone come in right now, you know, maybe in the future for sure. Catherine Maley, MBA: But it sounds like also, you're trying to do work-life balance. You know, you're not, you are not going to kill yourself doing this. And, and I'm so, glad you know that because some do. And., I don't know if this made them any happier, but they're grinding, you know, they, they, they've been grinding for 20 years, so, you know, the answer's whatever's right for you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: For sure. Absolutely. Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Gosh. All right, so, we have to talk about actually, let's just talk about staffing for a second. Sure. It has been universally. The biggest issue ever. It always was an issue like, isn't staffing like your biggest challenge of running a practice, but now due to whatever has happened in the world, it's just gotten so, difficult to find people, not find people, good people you know, who want to work and who are dedicated. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? So, any tips on what has been working for you? Sam Lam, MD: I have an amazing director who manages all this, first of all. So, I don't and of course it's, the thing is she's so, well connected in the community. She finds a lot of friends. Of friends. Of course, that's the best way to get people here. But that's not even enough. It's too still too dry. Of course, indeed has worked really well for us. But there is no easy way to do it. It is, it is a slog. And I, I, I wish I could give you a good tip. That would be a pearl. No, there isn't. Catherine Maley, MBA: It's, well, didn't everybody, I think half of the state of California left because we're so, crazy here right now. And a lot of them went to Texas. So, did you feel a big rush of. Californians coming over. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Yeah. I mean, from a real estate perspective, they've all come here to take over homes and things like that. So, from a business perspective, it definitely has, has helped us. I mean, I think that everyone has felt a really good plus, I mean, not everyone, but a lot of people have felt a really good plus during the pandemic time. But now as inflation soars and everything else is going up, there's definitely been a drop in the last six months. And I think things are trending and not in a good way. Everything's a cycling. I mean, I, I'm not so, worried long term. People want facelifts. People want hair transplants and, and it's just little bumps in the road, you know? Catherine Maley, MBA: And it is cycles. We were both around for the recession and the comeback and all the crazy that goes on, but it's very cyclical. It just is. So, let's talk about marketing, because I used to say, Hmm, how do, could you possibly differentiate yourself from everybody else? Number one, your building. Killer. That is unbelievable. How long did it take to build that thing? Two years. Right. I it's amazing. Did you have that vision, like the, and you call it something like the Wellness Center, right? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Well, you know, I had a vision for the Wellness Center, but I, it really, I, I, I would love to sound like an arrogant person and to come up with this, but my mom. Is an amazing business person and you should interview her. Not me, I guess. No, but she, she really, honestly had a lot of trust in me to do this. And we built a lot of the stuff at a time where, you know, like right now, building is built, anything is crazy. I mean, it's, it's, you don't, you want to, you know, buy low and sell high. I mean, I, of course, if someone's building right now, go for it. It's, it's, it's great. But my God, it's, it's a tough time. And we just built at a very low time. I mean, the land was dirt cheap here. This in 2001, you know, it was just after some after nine 11 there was some depression. The marketplace. The Tomans who owned the mall across the way that has had been up and down and still up and down. Unfortunately, right now with Covid post, post Covid, they wanted to, to get rid of stuff and, and so, it, we just be, we're just very lucky that Texas has, has grown so, much. But the thing with real estate too, is that it, it's not a surefire bet. It's not that just because. You think, well, it's real estate, it's real. And then you're, you're going to grow. Not every area grows, you know, and not everything multiplies in huge degrees. So, there is risk with that, you know? But we are just very blessed that the area we chose was like amazing. It's the, the huge corridor of growth right here. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. I did own some single-family homes in Austin, Texas. Yeah. Before, of course I sold at the wrong time, but I, I, it was there's no money in that, quite frankly. They, there was no equity like you can build out here in California. Like, like it just, and it was difficult to manage, but I just remember thinking, wow, this place, it's so, dirt cheap to buy real estate away from California. Sure. But then when you sell, well now they're the place, I mean, actually one of the houses, like the houses were They, during Covid, they jumped up to like over 400,000 in what I had bought it for. And it's like, gosh darn, I didn't see that coming at all. But here was the big, the big one for Texas is they get you on the property taxes. Oh, of course. Like my property taxes like tripled one year and I thought, wait a second. I didn't account for that. And so, it just didn't, financially it didn't make sense, but do you find that. Because somebody's got to pay for all of this stuff somewhere along. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Yes, yes. No, property taxes are terrible in Texas. There's no doubt. Get someone to negotiate it for you. That's pretty obvious. I've got, I've got, someone negotiates my commercial. I've, and the same guy negotiates my home and everything's negotiable. So, Nice. That's good. That's actually a good rule for everything. Everything's negotiable, Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. By the way, what's your commute like from your home to you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: In the morning, it's eight to 12 minutes and home it is 12 to 30 minutes, and it's, it, the 30 minutes has really gotten crappy now because sometimes I just deal with traffic. I never had to deal with that. I don't know what's going on, but I, I you know, Tony Robbins calls it no extra time or net and I learn languages when I drive home, I do audiobooks and I, fortunately, I, I mean, I, I can absolutely concentrate and learn a language, but I don't like wasting time. So, I, you know, I don't even feel the commute. Catherine Maley, MBA: I, I just think a as I get older commuting, commuting has become, I, I, I won't do it. I just, I, I just, I think it's not good for your peace of mind or your productivity or your just your, I just, it's just so, nice. I mean, I, I've noticed also, surgeons will start moving closer. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: There's a book by Jonathan Hy called The Happiness Hypothesis. Oh, he said that it's an actually, the farther you live from your, it's directly related how f farther you live from your workplace. And the longer your commute, the less happy you are. Catherine Maley, MBA: Isn't that true? Although, you know, now we all listen to podcasts all the time. I can listen to those all day long. I still don't like be being forced to sit still. That that's my, I'm just too a d d about that. Anyway. So, so, regarding marketing, you were, you were one of the very first people I ever met who got into video. Yes. And we were at the medical conferences, been going to those for years. And you always had your camera up there, and I thought, good for you. And you were, you got really good at it, and you were the only one doing it. And then now the whole world has jumped in and they're doing it. But how much did that help you to be at the still? All of that? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: All of it does. All of it does. I, I think that, you know, I'm definitely not the leader anymore of this, of this space. People are doing great work that I, I'm not doing that, but there's no doubt that on a daily basis it's the it's the videos, the podcasts, the just patience getting to know you. I mean, just, you know, you, you know, and the great thing is lecturing and filming your own, I film my own lectures. That's been huge thing. People just go, oh my God, this guy is such an authority. But I come across pretty good on, on stage. And so, you know, if you're, if you're not a good lecturer or you're nervous or something, then of course that is not good. But, you know, I feel very, people feel authenticity as you talked about as, as you've, as you have talked about that, that is an important element and there's just a connection. So, videos are still critical, you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what's working for you? I, your Instagram looks fantastic. Your YouTube channel looks fantastic, although on YouTube it definitely looks like you're doing hair transplantation. Yeah. Like are, are you, is it meant to be that, like are you trying to, I can't tell if you're like trying to get away from facelift and Rhino or, or like putting all your eggs in the hair. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: You know, it's, I, here's the thing from a lecture perspective, I, I just, what happens is in the world of lecturing, you get boxed into a certain category and you like, am I, am I doing huge advances in necklaces? No. I'm following what Mike Nig is doing with network. And so, I, I get podcasts about that. I talk about it, but I am not, I don't feel comfortable going on stage and say, look, I've innovated something. Whereas with hair, I am always on podium. You know, I have written now so, many books on hair transplant and I just am having another one come out next year. So, for me, I think a lot of it may read that way because of the academic stuff. But the one thing that I will. Is that, you know, with long tail strategies of just putting videos up there, people are searching stuff and whatever comes up, they fi figure that's what you're, what you do. And so, I'm not so, worried about a composite location where they have to follow you, but when someone follows, finds something that I, for example recently I've been doing a lot of osteos and people find me because of all my videos in osteo. They don't care how to do hair. They don't care how to do a facelift, but they find me because they're looking for the word osteo. They're looking for the word bone on the forehead or boney lesion on the forehead. And, and so, I think that if so, long as I keep throwing different things out there, it's great, but sometimes, you know, there's a lot more stuff about hair because I have a lot of, I do a lot of hair and I'm always on podium. Catherine Maley, MBA: I know well there's something else you do that's really smart. I look at websites and digital presence from the consumer point of view. And if I was somewhere and I saw I wanted to talk about a facelift, and when I click on facelift, when you show up, you send me to a web page. That's all about facelift and it has everything there. It has to be before, after photos. It explains things. It has diagrams, it has many videos of you. It has video testimonials about facelift. You are not making me click all over the place. I don't have to go to galleries, then I have to go to video testimonials. Then I have to go to learn more about the procedure. It was all there on one page and I don't, I tell everybody, you guys make this easy for the consumer. Give them what they want in one shot because they're not going to click like they used to, you know? So, boom, whoever's doing your website, I think they are doing it. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: That was my idea. Go. Brilliant. So, the recent thing I just recently did is I, I had shot about it a couple years ago. What are I call virtual consultations where I just, I basically the same thing I say every day. And now I move that up to the front of the page because that's really the, you know, where people want to know, like, what is the procedure, what's the recovery, what's the, what's the risk, what's the limitation? What are the goals? Anyway, so, I, I've now flagged that as my top one, and then everything follows from there. And I. And the other thing I've done with before and after is, which I've tried to do is people. They don't want to go to a new page, they want to scroll. So, what I've done with my before and afters is I have one page scroll for like if it's rhinoplasty or whatever it may be. You just keep scrolling down and in that way you don't. You, if you want to stop, you stop. And then what I've done with the before and afters is they're swiping left and right. So, now you basically, what's a tap it? The swipe didn't work as well, but you, you go through all your videos and everything related to that one patient on, on a horizontal bar and then vertically. There. It's all in that one category. Of course, I've also, got subcategories. So, if you're looking for ethnic hair restoration, ethnic rhinoplasty, whatever it may, that's specific, you'll, you'll go into, dive deep into that category as well, besides a general one. But that whole, you know, finger left to right and depth and down has also, been helpful. Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. By the way, you have 600 videos, but 6,000 before and after photos and more patient video testimonials than I've ever seen. How are you making that happen when everybody else says, oh, my patients are so, private, they won't talk about this. How? How do you make that happen? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: So, first of all, I, I'm a good salesperson, so, I'm the one in charge of it. So, basically what happens is the way I first look, I have the patient, I have the staff put up the before and after for me, before I walk in the room, if it looks mind blowing, I'll walk into the patient's room and say, wow, you got to see this before and after. It's amazing. So, they'll see it and then I'll ask the, just like, if you want to date a girl, if you don't ask, you don't go out with her. So, or a guy, whatever it is. So, I, I asked the patient, would you. Mine to, to do this. And if they say, well, I don't know, usually at that point I ask the simple question, is it privacy? Or what is, or what's the reason? If they say it's privacy, I, I don't, I don't push a testimonial, whatever it may. So, let's say they say yes. So, then from that, yes, I go to, I go to, well then you do a video, will you do a review? Will you do all these things so, I can capture all of it and then use it in all different platforms? If it is a no, it's a privacy issue, then I ask. When you do review, can I use part of the image? How about what if I, if it's autoplasty, can I black out your face and just use the ears? Can I do you know, if it's a hair, can I just do the hairline? Can I just do the eyebrows? Can I just do the eyes? Can I do the nose with the eyes blacked out? I try to negotiate what privacy allows and., if it goes toward the, yes, I can use it before and after is of course, the natural question I just mentioned is can I shoot a video? And they'll usually tell me, they may tell me, no, I'm not ready. I don't accept that. I, I will, what I do is I just take, now I just use my phone and I take a little plugin thing with a wired mic to the us to the, the lightning cable. Clip it on them and put it on cinematic modes. So, the backgrounds. Hold it up this way and just. So, I'm ready to roll because, and I, and I tell them this, I say this is the way I coach them. I'll say, pretend I'm your best friend, Susan, or whatever your best friend's name is, and I'm scared to do this procedure. I'm interested. I don't know about it. Talk about why you wanted this done. What is, you know, how, what was the experience with the staff? What was the experience with the surgery? How was the discomfort recovery? What did you feel about it? What do you think about your results? How's it changed your life now? And I said, you can say all that, or you don't have say any of it, just. Don't worry about it. And if you forget something I will crop it, cut it, and do, and they never forget. And if they do, then at the end, let's say, they'll say something and then I, I stop the filming and then they say, oh man, you know what? I forgot. I is, I, I wanted to say how lovely your patient coordinator was. She just really made me feel, I said, okay, hold on sec. I'll take the, the phone. I'll say, okay, start with this. Say, you know, I forgot to mention something, and then say what you want to say, and then I'll just splice it on iMovie and I'll stick in a before and after onto my thing and just upload it myself. Catherine Maley, MBA: Now the big Pearl there is you ask, you ask, you don't delegate or advocate you, you ask. The patient's much more likely to say yes to you than somebody else in your practice, and you're making it very easy for them to do that. I will tell you though, people who are not used to video, they, they get scared when something is put in front of their face. So, I would try to come up with, I don't know, maybe like a big whiteboard with five things like. This is what the pain is, what I was in, like, the pain I was in. This is why I chose Dr. Lam. This is why you're going to want to choose him. This is what my journey was like with the staff and the, and the surgery. This is how great I feel now, and I wish I had done it sooner. If you could somehow, like give them a few pointers. In other practices, what they've done is they a, they're interviewing them. So, they'll, you know how when you do an interview, the. Reporter says, so, I'm going to ask you, oh, so, how did you hear about Dr. Lam? And then I say, oh, I heard about Dr. Lam through da da da. So, a lot of them just need some coaching that they're just scared, you know? So, you know, if you can help them with that, but whatever you're doing is working because I've never seen so, many video testimonials. Very good. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: You know what's interesting is that they, they tell me they're scared and they need a script or something, and they never need one. They just go for it. Yeah. And it's really interesting that, and the other thing I'm worried about with any pointer pointed stuff is if their eyes dart off. Yeah., like they're reading a script. Right. Cause I really want them to be focused on that. And I tell them, look, the thing that makes it easy is I'll hear that. I'll hear the complaint that, Hey, I'm nervous I don't do this. And I'll say, Pretend you're talking to your friend. I love that. And I will edit it. Don't worry about it. Just keep talking. Just tell me and I'll say, you know what, and this is the other thing I'll say, I'll say, it can be 10 seconds. It can be 10 minutes. Talk about whatever you want to talk about. I've given you some ideas. If you don't want to talk about the recovery, don't talk about it. Talk about. You know, what did you pretend you're having a conversation with your friend. You don't need a cue card for that. Just say, you know, why did you want this done? And how has it changed your life? And those are the words I say, how does it change your life? And then that usually gets them clicked in and they're so, emotional about it, they'll just go off. And what that fear level is, it goes away. Yeah. You know? Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. What's the timing on that? Because I have watched practices wait too long. Yeah. There's a, there's a, a sweet spot when a cosmetic patient has been transformed and they're totally emotionally attached to it. And then there's the point where they, they, they're used to it now, and so, the emotion is gone or the passion like it was there. Is there a certain time. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: The timeframe is always, and I, and so, let me explain, is like, you know, sometimes a patient doesn't follow up with you, so, what you thought was going to be a good time is not. And people want to see a patient a day out, they want to see a week out, they want to hear from them all over the time. So, when I, if, if I like the before and after, that's usually one. If, if I, if. That's usually one of the catalysts that I have. The other catalyst is just thinking about it, thinking, you know what? This is a really personal person, let's just do it. Or if the person's from out of town it's like, let's just shoot it right now. And, and sometimes what I'll do is like, I had a guy this week, I, I just put on a hair transplant one, I remembered him doing a video, so, I already got the consent. I already knew he; he was comfortable. They already told me how great the experience was. So, I went and he was six months out. He had a lot of hair growth at that point already. So, what I, when did I shoot the first one? A day after the procedure. And so, when did I shoot this one, six months out? I could shoot another one at, at one year. So, that same patient is giving me at least 2, 3, 4 testimonials. So, it's endless, you know? And then that is a great long tail because it gets spa smattered all over the, the. Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. The and the reviews, do you handle that the same way or do you do that differently? Are you, are you asking for everything all at the same time? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Like, I, I. I usually do, my staff usually handles a review. I, I don't, I'm not necessarily a hundred percent happy with the way that I'm been taking the reviews, to be honest with you. So, I can't a hundred percent advocate it. But we use a little doctor.com thing where they type in a little review and I don't know if I don't even, I haven't checked my case, I probably should… Catherine Maley, MBA: But if you have like two 50 or something, you have a good rating. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Yeah. Good. I don't even know, to be honest. That's terrible to say that because I should know everything, but I. Check it because sometimes make a bad one or whatever in there. Right. You know, and I just, I don't, you know, I, people ask, you know, how do you, I have one guy ask me, he said, how do you., you know, handle like a bad review. I said, look, I, I don't read it. I just live my life and do good work. And then there's going to be a bad review. And those give more authenticity to the whole thing. But you know, it's going to happen, you know? Catherine Maley, MBA: I want to ask about marketing for different target markets because that's getting more and more difficult to be the best at a rhino, the best in a facelift, the best at hair transplantation. How do. How do you figure out the branding of all of that? Because you can, when you specialize, you can charge more. People will come in from all over the world because you're the best at that one thing and you've done that really a good job with that, with hair transplants. But is that what you wanted? Or how do you market to the young rhino patient, but then turn around and market to the man who needs hair? Then how do you turn around and the more mature woman who needs a facelift, those are such different target markets. How are you handling. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: For me, it's always been the video because as I said, people, it's Google just sticks them up there and then when you see a 36-year-old deep necklace. People relate to it and whether it's on Instagram or somewhere else, but people just, they, they, they relate to the story. They relate to the before and after they relate to the person, and then they just find more like that their brain naturally proclivity, you know, has a proclivity to find people like themselves. So, that's one thing. And you know, I divide my website into those, those ethnic divisions. Know African rhinoplasty and, you know, all those key terms and African hair or I don't even remember now. Yeah, it's like traction, alopecia, black hair loss. So, I have all those, those ethnic and gender divisions on my website, but then I lump them. So, I've got all male, all female. And I try to split all that up and then I've. Ron, I have a rhinoplasty website. I've got a hair website; I've got a face website. And you know, soon I probably will develop a, a, a facelift website. But those micro sites that I know now is not as in, in vogue, but people want to see your specializing something, so, that helps as well. And then they're universal truths, things that just make it different. Like with, with hair. I have a, a joint commissioner credit facility, so, I knock them out, so, there's no. And, you know, I talk about their experience being better off, of how, and just I think the key is if you don't, if you're not good at speaking, public speaking, no one is to start, right? You're nervous the first time you're on stage. I'm, I was nervous the first time on, on stage. Just keep doing it. And the more comfortable you get in front of the camera just talking and not worrying about what you're saying. And you may flub and you go, oh my God, I forgot to say that. I'm going to say this. People feel that authenticity and they connect with you and they want. You become this kind of pseudo celebrity and then they walk in, they feel comfortable with you, and that's the real connection. You can have as many before and afters and, and no videos. You can have as much text and then without the video connection. People need to connect with you before they come and see you. Of course, you have to have before and afters. You have to have great before and afters, not average ones, but you need to connect and there's no other way to do it than with you. The voice is going. Catherine Maley, MBA: I believe with everything going on with SEO and Google and apple and privacy and all of that. Video is. The way in today's world to market. So, anybody who is afraid of video, I always say just do it at home. Just get the phone in front of you and the iPad in front of you. Get used to it, like find your voice. When I was much younger, I knew I was going to be a public speaker. I couldn't even say my name without forgetting it. And I went to Toastmasters for one whole year, every Tuesday. I went to Toastmasters in a loving group who like never criticized. We were all always very positive with each other. And that's where I found my voice and thank God, because I wouldn't be where I am today if I had not gotten over that public speaking fear. Totally. And so, it's, it's totally surmountable. You just have to do it, you know? I agree. I want to talk about the, the mindset part. When I first met you, and I don't know if you'll remember this, but it was probably 15 years ago and it was a Greg Morgan Ross meeting and it was in at Stanford and in California. And you were a very different person then. And you were, I, there is no nice way to say this. You, the, the impression I got was so, you were so, arrogant. I think you literally said to. You don't know who I am, you know, like one of those things. And, but you are a great dancer. And, and then I hadn't seen you for a couple years. Next thing I see, I've never seen a surgeon transform as much as you had. You had lost a ton of weight. Yeah. You, you had a whole new aura about you. You were smiling and engaging and I almost didn't recognize you. And then you gave a talk and it was about, The old you and the new you, and it had to do with you had some bad reviews, you know? Yeah. Do you want to just tell that story because that was amazing. You just became this amazing, beautiful person. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: I mean, there's so, many components to evolution, right? Because I, I, I've evolved over 20 years of practice and, and also, my life. And you know, when you're, for me being Asian, I, I was picked on a lot as a kid. I got a lot of fights as a, as a teenager. Not proud of that. But you know, in the eighties was a different time. I think today there's racism is much more subtle. It's, it's very un under undercurrent rather than, than, than. Than basically in front of you. So, I think I had, I dealt with a lot of inferiority complex about being an Asian male, my sexuality, my, you know whatever it may be. And that confidence sometimes comes out as that in that lack of confidence comes out as arrogance when it's not meant to be. And also, he is, you know, a young person trying to prove himself that doesn't know his, his salt pushes, pushes the, pushes things very hard. But yeah, bad reviews. Humble you. I had a guy that I. Did a hair transplant on and at six months he had poor growth. Back then it was even before regenerative medicine that was available to try to build faster growth. And he just said he was going to sue me for a quarter million dollars and he was going to put a sign, sign outside and post against everything. and I made a lot of bad judgment errors at that time. I first ha let my staff handle this situation, which is a mistake I should have handled myself, and I know ways to, to circumvent that better now, not a hundred percent obviously, but that was one of the issues. So, it just, it, it humbles you when you get slapped in the face and you start to realize, hey, you're not all that, and. You know what people's opinion of you are going to fluctuate. They're, they're going to think you're great or not great. And, you know, it's, it's not it's not about you. And, and, and, and many, many issues with that in terms of weight loss. The, the honest truth is just, I, I lived in New York and I walked all the time and ate like a New Yorker. And now you get moved to Texas and I ate like a Texan and I, and it was bad. I ate a lot and I, and it was, you know, I just got fatter and fat. But it, that was, I think all of it is just this evolution of finding yourself men mature later than women. I think, you know, there's a, a component where I didn't get married. I mean, I didn't get married until my mid to late forties. And you know, still trying to find myself, I don't think I was the right. Spiritual, psychological emotional, physical level to get married. Whereas I think women are, are much more mature than men faster. I have kids now. I, I have four and a two-year-old in my early fifties. And I, I'm, you know, it's great. I, I was watching the Sebastian Maniscalco thing. He says, he calls it lay and play where he lies down and, and basically as the kids run over, that's basically me because I'm old and tired. But I think a large part of this is humbling yourself, you know, and realizing that that life is fun. You know? It is, it's incredible and it's, and, and the other thing that's really important you know, I'm, I'm a spiritual person. I believe God has given us a lot of this stuff. You know, when, when we're arrogant, we think we have so, much talent it, it's not the truth. I mean, to be honest, like I told you, look who built this. I could easily say like, I built it, I did it, I did this. I didn't, so, why should I say that? Because I didn't. And the, the truth of the matter is we are given so, many opportunities, like with hair. Great example. Amina Vance, who came into my life, and he, she was ed Williams she sorry, Ed's coordinator was Susan Sullivan. No Ed's hair transplant coordinator at the time that he was doing a lot of hair said, you got to meet this one, I mean, advanced when you go back to Dallas. And I said, okay, whatever. I met with her and, and, but it, it turned out to be this amazing relationship over 20 years. Now she's like semi-retired, but she's working on this new book with me for next year because we are an amazing team and, and you start to realize stuff that you suck. and if you are transparent with that suckiness to the people around you, they know it already. You know, it's, it's, it's obvious. And if you try to pretend that they don't know, then it's even worse Just. Know what you suck at. And for, for, for her and me, we're very different. And my wife and I are very different in, in really good complimented ways. I'm a really good visionary. I'm really good at artistic design and understanding big pictures. I know where I. Need to get better. I, I can write really fast. I, I, I, I wrote my last book in literally two months. I shot a hundred videos for this book and, and, and over four months all with no, no time at home, away from my family. It's all done very, very efficiently in microseconds of time between patients. But I'm really bad at looking at quality control, little details like what Amina's done, even with this textbook, for example, is come back and, and just shredded it. I mean, the last book chapter on recipient migration, I thought, I was like, this is amazing. She like shredded it, redlined it, put a new image, diagrams like, wow. So, the point of this is that we're given all these amazing relationships that in our life that make us look really good. Like, Hey, I'm the hair guru, right? I just. Lifetime Achievement Award. They've only given 20 some awards out for this golden fall. I got it. But you know what, it's because I've got an amazing team around me that has made me look amazing. It's, it's not just because I'm all that in a bag of chips. So, I mean, those, that's, that's a long and short of it, you know. Catherine Maley, MBA: But didn't you also, take up like yoga and meditation and it like what I did a lot. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: You know, for me it was very if, yeah, my spiritual journal journey is another story, which is really interesting. So, I can dive into that for a little while. You know, seeking for what's. Real at the end of the day. Right. So, for me, yoga meditation was a huge part of my life in my mid to late thirties, early forties. And then if you want to hear something weird, I I'm, I, I really had no faith in God at nothing. I, in my early forties, I was trying to run this marathon, this half marathon, I was sick and me. Tenant said, you know, you got to meet this guy. Like, well, whatever, I'm sick. I don't want to meet this guy. So, I, I, and he says, no, he, he doesn't, I doesn't mind come his come, you know, come meet. They're fine. So, I was lying down in this treatment room. I, my, my, I was down, face down and his partner, his like business partner was doing acupuncture on me. And then it turns me over around and he's, he's, he's this sort of like Catholic monk type of guy. I don't know what he is, but he, he's putting the needles in me. and I immediately started crying for 90 minutes. I said, God, have mercy on my soul. Wow. And I was, I, I was a Christian growing up, but I lost my faith in college. I was a history major. I saw man's inhumanity, man. So, I was seeking something spiritually to fill that void. And for me it was yoga meditation for many years. And then I became a Christian again, I guess, or however you want to say, it returned my faith, not by any volitional effort. It was, I believe God came into my life because I was. I was I just believed it was like lightning struck and that occurred in my mid-forties. And so, it's that journey of, of that spiritualism helps me, anchor me, and I think it's something I've always wanted. And I saw it through different avenues and things and then, and God, that, my God that came to me transformed me, not by me. So, that's, that's the spiritual side of things. Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. God and I are really tight. I don't know how you get through life without having that foundation. There are just too many things that I don't believe in coincidences anymore., sure. But a lot of that takes maturity because you've tried every external thing on the planet to make yourself feel important and significant. And eventually you, I think you just finally get there and say, you know what? It is what it is. I, I hope you like me, but if you don't, I'll, I'm okay with that because it's just too hard to keep singing and dancing for everybody else, you know? I agree. So, congratulations. I have, I have watched you through the years going, what happened? I, I want whatever he got, because you can tell you're so, comfortable with yourself now, and that's all it was. It was just insecurity. That's what we're all doing, you know, fighting our insecurities. And I thought, oh my gosh, he has just, I've never seen anything like that before, so, I really appreciate. So, I always ask at the end like, tell us something we don't know about you. You really were a great dancer. H where'd you learn that? And then this art, you're not kidding that your art is serious art. So, tell us about that. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: It's my passion. I was, it, it, I was, I was doing a lot of abstract work. Now I'm recently doing one because my wife has asked me to do it, but I've always been. Fascinated with, with art and design and museums and everything. And initially when I did my first textbooks, they just, the, the publisher said, look, hey, I, too, to get the book deal signed. I said, I'll do my own drawings. And I didn't know what I was doing and I finally did it all digitally and they came out okay. But in the last few years, I started to really move from abstraction and started to trust my hand. And I've dived deeper and deeper into rep representational work. And every morning I get up, I work out and I paint before I go to work. And it's this part of this if you will call the meditation side. It's a meditative part of my life and it is amazing. And I encourage all of you guys to, to paint. Now, I don't know. I love it. And I, I, I learned it through YouTube during the pandemic. The pandemic was great because I spent that time watching some YouTube videos and learning and go to Patreon. If you haven't done Patreon, It's not well organized, but it's, it's, it's, it's YouTube and Patreon are ways to learn everything. My God, I learned all my artistic techniques through that. Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you selling your artwork? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: No, but I recently donate. I was the chairman last year for this Dallas County children's advocacy center, which is to help with child abuse cases horrible child abuse cases in Dallas County. And I was the honorary chair with my wife. And, you know, it's, it's an art for advocacy where they. You donate you, you people, artists donate pieces and I said, I'll donate my piece. And I've never, and it was great because I never met all these community of artists, but bam, I made, I made friends with those artists and my piece sold like in five minutes for max bid, which is you can buy it for twice the whatever. They, they forced me to cap it. 10,000, I sold it 20,000. So, so, I, I sold that, if you will count that. But it, it, it, it all goes to charity. So. Catherine Maley, MBA: Holy cow. Somebody buy for $20,000? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and "just for men" ? Sam Lam, MD: Yeah. And so, next year, this, this year, excuse me, this is 2023. Now I'm going to do a 10-foot piece that my goal is to do this on the live auction. So, out of 80 pieces, they allow five for the live auction. They turned me down last year. My arrogance said that I should be on the live auction, but this year I'm going to really, I said, I told them, look guys, I've sold this thing in five minutes, and even all the other artists said, Bottom told me this was like the best piece they've seen. So, my goal is I, I already have the vision of how I'm going to do this 10-foot piece. It's going to be, I'm hoping they will say yes. It, it's based on the, the, the curatorial committee to say yes or no to it. It's 10 feet tall. 10 feet wide and five feet heights, two canvases, five by five. It will be what I'm planning to do is these children that have gone through the suffering, they it's an idea from what this woman did last year. I'm going to have them work on and paint the backgrounds and the, the acrylics so, you'll know that what you're hanging in your room has been touched by the children that you have touched by buying this. Because the money goes, all, all goes to them. And so, then I'm going to do a, a web and network with birds and flowers, which I've painted a lot. and those can be realistic. On the abstract background, it's going to be called hope, or Hope Eternal because that's the symbolism of the flight and the symbol of the, of the flowers blossoming because you know what? A child has been sexually abused and physically abused and it's just horrific that this is, that you are going to hang that in your home. That will show, show this, you know, flight and blossoming. So, that's sort of mine. Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Well, you know what? If plastic surgery doesn't work out for you, you can always fall back on this. Sam Lam, MD: I don't know. I'm be a starving artist. I hate to tell you that. Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we'll, we'll wrap it up now, but is there any closing comments about 6k B&A photos and "just for men" or how can people reach you? Any advice for others coming up? Sam Lam, MD: You know what be passionate about. Don't. If there's something you don't like, don't do it. You know if, and that's if you love it. Don't, don't let someone else tell you not to do it. Carve your own way. Like I was a history major in college and people thought, why'd you a history major? Well, trans, trans, you know, Steve Jobs talks about if you hadn't seen the Steve Jobs when he talks about connecting to odds backwards yeah, it's a great, I always tell to people to watch that because I didn't know that could actually allow me to write books so, fast. And it, it just follows your heart and your passion. Just do what you like. Don't worry about someone else telling you that you suck or you're stupid and you shouldn't do that because. You know, if you love it, you're going to be, you're going to get better at it. And, and that's, that's, those are my parting words, you. Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's fabulous. Thank you so, much Dr. Sam Lam. I hope to see you at a meeting soon. Yeah, and that'll wrap it up for us. For Beauty and the Biz, if you'd be so, kind to subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss future episodes, that'd be terrific. Please share this with your colleagues and staff. If you've got any questions or feedback for me, you can always leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com. Dr. Lam's website is at www.LamFacialPlastics.com. Sam Lam, MD: Plastics with an s.com. Yeah. plastics.com it would be Dr. Lam, DrLam@LamFacialPlastics.com. Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Alright. Righty. And then if you want to DM me, you can reach me at Catherine Maley, MBA at Instagram. What's your Sam Lam, MD: Instagram handle? I've got many, but if you want to follow my art Yeah. Which has nothing to do with business. It's @SamLamMD. I, I post every day a new piece of art. If you want to follow my facial, it's @LFPDallas as in Lam facial plastics, @LFPDallas. And my hair is @HairTX and then my skincare is @OvaSkinCare. @OvaSkinCare. Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord, do you ever sleep? Sam Lam, MD: Six hours. Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on 6k B&A photos and "just for men" . If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Lam, you can reach out to his website at, Visit Dr. Lam's Website. A big thanks to Dr. Lam for sharing his experience on 6k B&A photos and "just for men" . And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues. And we will talk to you again soon. Take care. The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win. Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue. -End transcript for "6k B&A Photos, plus Just for Men — with Sam Lam, MD".
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#b&aphotos #drsamlam #samlammd | |||