The Digital Agency Growth Podcast – Détails, épisodes et analyse

What if the agencies that crush Q1 aren't working harder in January, they're making one  or two critical decisions right now, in December?

In this solo episode, Dan reveals why Q1 consistently catches agencies off-guard and what separates those who stumble into the new year from those who hit the ground running. The secret isn't about working through the holidays or setting ambitious goals—it's about installing a systematic referral system during Q4's quieter moments. 

What You'll Leave With:

• Why trust, not awareness, became the scarce resource after 2020 and how it changes your approach
• The four stages agencies move through and how to identify which phase you're stuck in
• The "high school gym vs. NFL stadium" test for choosing the right lead generation strategy based on market size
• How to structure connector calls to get 2-5 quality referrals from a single conversation
• The simple human emotion that makes people actually follow through on promised introductions
• A two-pronged outreach system that keeps your pipeline full even when you're buried in client work
• Why making it easier for people to help you eliminates the awkwardness of asking for referrals
• The one free data tool you need to get started without expensive SaaS platforms

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction: The strange Q4 gap period and what's coming
• [02:33] The Cobbler's children phase and why most agencies get stuck there
• [05:00] The four stages of agency growth and how they're detached from revenue
• [09:15] The 2020 trust recession and why cold outreach stopped working
• [12:30] High school gym vs. NFL stadium: Choosing the right strategy for your market
• [16:45] The systematic referral framework: How to generate warm intros weekly
• [21:20] Structuring connector calls to get 2-5 referrals per conversation
• [24:10] The emotional game changer that makes introductions actually happen
• [27:17] Common objections: "This seems like too much work" and "I'm worried about asking for help"
• [29:35] How this scales beyond your initial network (sprint, jog, run phases)
• [31:54] The Referral Engine Program and Referral Network Diagnostic offer

Quotes: 

"A lot of agencies end up in level two, which we call the Cobbler's children phase. They have a track record, they've produced results for clients, but new business is very reactive—it's very much catch as catch can." — Dan Englander

"After 2020, we saw a massive shift. Trust became the scarce resource, not awareness. Everyone's inbox is full, everyone's LinkedIn is saturated, and people have gotten really good at tuning out anything that feels like cold outreach." — Dan Englander

"If you're getting on a call a day—like an apple a day keeps the doctor away—or five calls a week, that is usually more than enough to hit 99% of sales goals." — Dan Englander

If you’re planning your 2026 biz dev strategy without real market data, you’re guessing. In this episode, I talk with friend of the show Nicholas Petroski, founder of Promethean Research and creator of the Digital Agency Referral Playbook, about what the numbers actually say—and how top agencies are using referrals, account growth, and GTM clarity to build next year’s plan. This is the clearest look you’ll get at what’s really moving the needle heading into 2026.

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• The referral trends shaping 2026 pipeline planning
• Why most agencies misread pipeline health
• What data actually predicts account growth
• The role of referrals in a tighter 2026 GTM
• Who should really own the referral process
• How to identify your most valuable connectors
• Why “good work” isn’t enough to drive intros
• What the best shops are fixing before January

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Why 2026 planning requires real data
 01:02 – Nick’s new research & why referrals matter now
 03:11 – From Random to Repeatable: core findings
 05:45 – Why agencies still handle referrals passively
 07:29 – The shrinking TAM + rising skepticism problem
 09:22 – Who should own referrals (and who shouldn’t)
 12:40 – Cross-sell models that actually grow accounts
 14:36 – Pipeline health vs conversion vs system health
 18:07 – How to operationalize intros without friction
 23:59 – The risk of relying on 1–2 referral sources
 27:26 – Why referrals must be part of your GTM
 29:15 – The mindset shift from “salesy” to consultative
 33:00 – What the data says agencies must fix for 2026

🔑 Key Quotes

📢 Links and Resources 

From Random to Repeatable: How Agencies Turn Referrals into a Reliable Growth Engine

If you want a repeatable referral system heading into 2026, grab my book 📘 Relationship Sales at Scale

In this episode of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast, I’m joined by Brock Murray, co-founder of seoplus+, a digital marketing agency he launched back in 2012 that has grown into a 50+ person team serving clients across North America and beyond.

Brock shares the arc of his journey, from launching his first web hosting business at 14, to building seoplus+ with his partner Eddie, to scaling through multiple growth stages while navigating the challenges of delegation, client specialization, and leadership layers.

If you’re running an agency, this episode is a playbook on scaling without losing touch, adapting to seismic industry shifts like AI search, and building a growth engine that lasts.

⏱️ Timestamps

0:00 – Intro & Brock’s early start in web hosting at age 14

1:00 – Founding seoplus+ in 2012 and partnering with Eddie

2:00 – Growth stages: from the first hire to 10, 25, and 50 employees

3:30 – The challenge of scaling culture and building management layers

5:00 – Hybrid account management and the role of AMs in sales

7:00 – Upsells, long-term relationships, and winning bigger accounts

9:30 – Balancing farming existing clients vs. chasing new ones

12:00 – Building a partner program: from 20 informal partners to 80+ active ones

15:00 – Partnerships vs. web leads vs. outbound

16:00 – Scaling from meetups to AI-focused community events

18:00 – Outbound experiments: Apollo, coffee chats, and free AI brand audits

20:00 – Structuring partnerships transparently and acquiring a partner’s business

23:00 – Fractional CMOs (VCMOs) as high-value partners

24:00 – How Brock got out of the sales seat and what made it possible

27:00 – Building trust and reach through events—local vs. national scale

30:00 – Fewer clicks from Google, more searches on ChatGPT & Gemini

32:00 – Launching Generative Engine Optimization and building AI tools internally

34:00 – Why agencies can now afford to build internal products

35:00 – The future of SEO: rebrand or double down?

37:00 – Where to connect with Brock online

🔑 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• How Brock scaled seoplus+ from two partners to a 50+ person global agency.
• The “resistance line” at 50 employees and how to push through.
• Why hybrid account management can be both a strength and a bottleneck.
• How to use events as a serious new business channel (without getting stuck locally).
• Why partnerships with VCMOs and boutique agencies can lead to acquisitions.
• How outbound campaigns, coffee chats, and case studies fuel growth.
• Why clicks from Google are dropping and what Generative Engine Optimization means for agencies.
• How to leverage AI tools internally to save hundreds of hours and increase ROI.
• The looming question: does SEO need a rebrand in the age of AI?

🔗 Links & Resources

• Relationship Sales at Scale™

Proposals can be a big reason your sales funnel slows down. Especially right now, as we’re seeing recession tendencies, the trend is that leads are still coming in, but closing deals takes a LOT longer. So what can you do to speed up the process and sign more clients? 

Today, Jore Ardeeser is here to talk about his passion for proposals and how you can create them more quickly and easily than ever before. This week, episode 186 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about how to build agency proposals lightning-fast and let prospects upsell themselves!

Are you leaving money on the table with your proposals? Introducing Smart Pricing Table, the ultimate agency proposal software with built-in upsell features. Maximize your revenue potential today. Download our Sponsor’s free guide, the Profitable Proposal Blueprint, today. 

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Joe Ardeeser shares the importance of knowing when your prospects open and reviewing your proposals and actionable steps you can take right now to upsell your clients on larger packages quickly and easily!

Joe Ardeeser is a former digital agency owner of 12 years who has worked with notable brands such as T-mobile, Bluetooth, and Scantron. His newest venture is Smart Pricing Table: interactive proposal software for agencies and professional service providers.

In this episode, Dan and Joe discuss the following:

• Why you should think about proposals like a brochure.
• The power of not making assumptions about your client’s needs.
• How to slice and dice a current offer so the base items are more affordable, but you still make your upselling items appealing.
• Tactics for managing scope creep in your contracts.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/

CONNECT WITH JOE ARDEESER:

LinkedIn

Smart Pricing Table website

Free Guide

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Marketing is one of the biggest factors in whether or not an agency is successful. But for the new agency, with limited time and resources, marketing takes up the valuable time in which you should be making discovery calls and signing contracts. Automation can help you find qualified leads without adding an additional 40 hours to your work week. This week, episode 185 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about growing a boutique agency with marketing automation!

Watch our new recorded video training: Relationship-Driven New Business At-Scale

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Brenton Thomas shares the importance of creating a low barrier of entry for your clients and actionable steps you can take right now to automate your marketing to whatever level your agency requires. 

Brenton Thomas has 7+ years of paid search, paid social, organic social media, and SEO experience in both corporate and agency roles. He is the founder of Twibi, a digital marketing agency that has worked with businesses valued at over $1 billion dollars to bootstrapped startups. He also has an MBA in International Marketing from Saint Mary's College of California. In his free time, he enjoys spending time with friends and family.

In this episode, Dan and Brenton discuss the following:

• Brenton’s journey that led him to create Twibi.
• Specializing and niching down in a crowded market.
• Effective upselling strategies for both new and existing clients.
• How to automate your marketing to save time and energy that can be put back into your business.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/

CONNECT WITH BRENTON THOMAS:

Linkedin

Twibi

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

In this wide business world, there are many ways to build a high-profit agency. Different strategies and tactics will work for different people, and there are consultants everywhere that are trying to sell you on their proprietary “secrets”. So how DO you build a high-profit agency in a sustainable way? And how do the concerns vary as you increase your revenue? Raul Hernandez-Ochoa is here today to talk about all that and more. This week, episode 184 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about building a high-profit agency!

Watch our new recorded video training: Relationship-Driven New Business At-Scale

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Raul Hernandez-Ochoa shares the importance of creating ‘stickiness’ to keep your clients from leaving and actionable steps you can take right now to position your agency for exponential growth. 

Raul Hernandez-Ochoa is the founder of Do Good Work, a digital growth consulting practice that helps bootstrapped digital marketing agencies design profitable growth & operations to scale their impact. He has also helped design marketing and sales teams that have produced millions in revenue, designed revenue teams that produced $50M in sales, and been responsible for over $25M in direct response ad spend and led teams across 12+ time zones.

In this episode, Dan and Raul discuss the following:

• J-curve growth versus staircase growth.
• The steps of scaling sustainably as your agency grows.
• What is productizing and how it can help you streamline your sales funnel.
• Predictions on how AI can help the agency leader as a co-pilot consultant.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/

CONNECT WITH RAUL HERNANDEZ-OCHOA:

LinkedIn

Do Good Work

Twitter

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

If you're in sales, you know that building strong relationships is key to success. But there are lots of other factors to consider as well, including whether to acquire a business or start it from scratch and how much AI to incorporate into your process. This week, episode 183 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about sales, acquisition, and relationship building!

Watch our new recorded video training: Relationship-Driven New Business At-Scale

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Ron Story Jr. shares the importance of crafting your message for your specific audience and actionable steps you can take right now to turn your list of email addresses into relationships to avoid cold-emailing people. 

Ron Story Jr. helps entrepreneurs get booked on podcasts and speaking gigs with PitchDB.com and book sales appointments at FiveContacts.com. A speaker, writer, and mentor, Ron has over 20 years of entrepreneurial experience in  Print/Digital Media Publishing, Real Estate Property Management, OTR Trucking, Income Tax Preparation, Financial Services, and more.

In this episode, Dan and Ron discuss the following:

• The value of podcasting for business owners and entrepreneurs.
• What AI looks like right now as a sales tool.
• The current state of the tech industry.
• Buying a business versus starting one from scratch.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/

CONNECT WITH RON STORY JR.

LinkedIn

Facebook

Instagram

PitchDB.com

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

The tech world is constantly changing, and sales executives often feel the brunt of the changes. Finding a community of others in the same position as you can be all the more helpful when navigating job searches, personnel shifts, and more. 

Today, Sam Jacobs is here to discuss how his peer group Pavilion connects people in the sales world. This week, episode 182 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about reciprocity, recession, and building Pavilion!

Watch our new recorded video training: Relationship-Driven New Business At-Scale

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Sam Jacobs shares the importance of knowing your professional strengths and actionable steps you can take right now to find new professionals in your field to add to your network. 

Sam Jacobs is the Founder & CEO of Pavilion and the author of Wall Street Journal Best Seller Kind Folks Finish First. He launched Pavilion as Revenue Collective in 2016 and bootstrapped the company to $10M in ARR before taking on a $25M growth financing round in early 2021, led by Elephant Ventures and GTM Fund.

In this episode, Dan and Sam discuss the following:

• What it’s like to grow and scale a massive peer group like Pavilion.
• The importance of personal values and what they mean for your career.
• The unbalanced structure of the tech industry and what it means for the workforce.
• What AI will do to change the workforce and technology landscape.

To check out Sam’s book Kind Folks Finish First, head to the Amazon page!

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/

CONNECT WITH SAM JACOBS:

LinkedIn

Twitter

Pavilion

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Working remotely, though common now, was not well received or often considered in the past decade or so. With the rise of remote work, hiring anyone from anywhere around the world is easier now. But what was the process like back when the idea started to emerge? Today, Dan Andrews is here to talk about all that and more. This week, episode 181 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about remote hiring, podcasting, and creating a community of entrepreneurs! 

Watch our new recorded video training: Relationship-Driven New Business At-Scale

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Andrews shares the importance of podcasting for agency owners and actionable steps you can take right now to find networking opportunities when abroad. 

Dan Andrews started the Tropical MBA blog as a job advertisement for a paid intern to join him as he traveled the world building his business with his business partner, Ian Schoen. It has since evolved into a place that location-independent entrepreneurs and folks starting their own businesses turn to for frank disclosures on the inner workings of their own million-dollar eCommerce company, tips and hacks for ex-pat living and travel, and witty commentary on the realities of building your own business to create personal freedom and opportunities.

In this episode, Dan Andrews and Dan Englander discuss the following:

• What being a digital nomad entrepreneur was like circa 2016.
• The big trends Dan is seeing in remote hiring given the last few months.
• Comparing being an agency owner to being a track and field athlete.
• How AI and technological developments will shape life 10 years from now.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/

CONNECT WITH DAN ANDREWS:

LinkedIn

Instagram

Tropical MBA

The Dynamite Circle

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Proposals are the heart of making sales and attracting new clients to your agency. But many agencies are approaching creating, sharing, and closing proposals in a way that hurts business: copying and pasting, chucking it over the fence in hopes that it sticks and sending too many follow-up emails. 

Joe Ardeeser is here to tell us the right, more productive way to create proposals and sign deals. This week, episode 180 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about optimizing your agency’s proposals and upsells!

Watch our new recorded video training: Relationship-Driven New Business At-Scale

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Joe Ardeeser shares the importance of proposal review meetings and actionable steps you can take right now to streamline your proposal creation. 

Joe Ardeeser is a former digital agency owner of 12 years who has worked with notable brands such as T-mobile, Bluetooth, and Scantron. His newest venture is Smart Pricing Table: interactive proposal software for agencies and professional service providers.

Free giveaway from Joe at Smart Pricing Table: Wish Your Projects Were More Profitable? Download the Free Guide: The Profitable Proposal Blueprint -Learn the 5 powerful principles that can take your proposals to the next level.

In this episode, Dan and Joe discuss the following:

• Google Docs and Microsoft Word aren’t built for proposals.
• How most agencies get pricing tables and proposals wrong. 
• The value of interactive proposals and proposal review meetings.
• Asking the right questions will keep prospective clients engaged in the sale - and bring them back if they’ve gone silent.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/

CONNECT WITH JOE ARDEESER:

LinkedIn

Smart Pricing Table website

Free Guide

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema