Inspiring Futures - Lessons from the Worlds of Marketing and Advertising – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Neil Perkin is a consultant, author, and self-described polymath working at the intersection of strategy, digital transformation, emerging technology, and leadership. 

With roots in media transformation at Time Inc during the dot-com boom, Neil has spent the last 16 years helping organizations navigate change. 

He's authored three books on agility and transformation, and now writes extensively about how AI is reshaping the practice of strategy.

In this conversation, Neil shares his perspective on what it really means to work with AI—not as a replacement for human thinking, but as something far more nuanced and powerful.

Five Big Themes from Our Conversation

1. AI as a Genuine Thought Partner
Neil argues that the real opportunity with AI isn't automation—it's augmentation of human thinking through continuous dialogue.

"How you can really use AI as a bit of a thought partner... it's like fully integrated into a strategy workflow, or any other kind of knowledge or thinking workflow, in ways where you're going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth between human and machine."

"Ideally what you are aiming for here, of course, is you're getting to places that you couldn't have got to on your own. And that's the possibility with AI."

2. The Danger of Cognitive Outsourcing
Neil warns against the temptation to let AI do our thinking for us—what he calls "cognitive outsourcing"—and the hidden costs of "work slop."

"This whole idea of cognitive outsourcing is a potentially big problem because if you are able to get the AI to do your thinking for you, you don't need to do any thinking, and thinking is hard."

"It's a big temptation because it's good enough, but it's not good. And so the person, the recipient has to then redo the work and it takes longer to actually do that."

3. Think, Prompt, Think
Before rushing to the AI, Neil advocates for starting with human clarity—a simple framework that changes everything.

"Think prompt think, basically. So the importance of actually just starting with humans. Before you go to the AI engine, just thinking about what it is you're trying to do, what good looks like... So you start basically with your perspective."

"Starting with you and then you having clarity and much greater depth with how you're then going to the AI... means that you're actually integrating it in a way which is not cognitively outsourcing or not disengaging your brain."

4. Five Roles AI Can Play
Neil offers a practical framework for understanding where AI fits—from full automation to human-led illumination.

"There's a model which I come back to a lot, which is just kind of like five sort of key roles that it can play... automator... decider... recommender... illuminator and evaluator. And they sort of balance human AI to different extent."

"The illuminator part is where the AI is augmenting your thinking. It's illuminating things in a way that actually you hadn't seen things before."

5. Don't View the New Through the Lens of the Old
Drawing from his transformation experience, Neil cautions against the natural tendency to apply old mental models to revolutionary technology.

"I learned a lot about not looking at the new through the lens of the old, the need to kind of reinvent and redesign as well as use technology to optimize."

"The first kind of versions of things were always kind of skeuomorphic... online magazines were like literally scans of pages of printed magazines. I think probably we're going to see a lot of that with AI."

Find Neil:

• Substack: onlydeadfish.substack.com
• Blog: onlydeadfish.co.uk
• Named after the Malcolm Muggeridge quote: "Only dead fish swim with the stream"

It's always interesting to see what a network agency in a local market is capable of, especially at a moment in advertising history when geography matters less than it ever has. 

A few weeks back, I got a chance to sit down with Havas Chicago's Chief Strategy Officer, Chase Cornett, and Chief Creative Officer Frank Dattalo to talk about the change they're implementing as a leadership team that includes President Kat Ott. 

Our conversation was wide-ranging and covered their approach to thinking about the new duality of marketing today- a concept they call "High/Low", the importance of building brand, treating talent with kindness, and recognizing the power and the limitations of AI. 

1. The Leadership Triad 

In 2025, Frank Dattalo joined President Kat Ott and Chief Strategy Officer Chase Cornett to rebuild Havas Chicago's creative, strategic, and cultural core. 

Together, they're positioning the agency as a modern, independent, culture-driven hub within the Havas network.

Chase: "It's been great to come back to Chicago and reimagine what Havas Chicago can be, a modern agency with the freedom to build what's needed without red tape.

Frank: "We knew what we didn't want to be, slow or rigid. We wanted a nimble, modern marketing approach with culture at the forefront.

2. The 'High–Low' Model — Think Like a Brand, Act Like an Influencer

Havas Chicago's creative philosophy pairs strategic brand thinking ("high") with the speed, fluency, and emotional immediacy of creators ("low"). Inspired by fashion's high–low aesthetic, it merges rigor and agility to create culturally resonant brands.

Frank: "Our north star is thinking like a brand but acting like an influencer or content creator.

Chase: "This isn't agency fluff. It changes how we hire, how we make, and how we operate."

3. Breaking Down Silos — The Feed as the New Brand Canvas

Havas Chicago rejects the traditional divide between social, brand, and performance teams. Culture, not channel, drives brand growth, and the feed is where that happens.

Chase: "Brand building starts and ends in the feed. If it's not in the feed, people aren't talking about it.

Frank: "Networks separate social and strategy, we're building an agency that does both."

4. Reclaiming Brand Building — Escaping the Performance Trap

Cornett frames the 2010s as the "gold-rush era of performance marketing," where brands traded long-term equity for short-term metrics. The new Havas model rebuilds meaning, pricing power, and emotional value.

Chase: "Performance became the buzzword, and brand was painted into a corner as arts and crafts." "If you follow the efficiency train, you're racing yourself to the bottom."

5. Culture, Kindness, and Creativity — Building a Human-Centered Agency

The trio's internal philosophy blends high creative standards with genuine humanity. They aim to make Havas Chicago a place where talent thrives, not just performs.

Frank: "It's not about being nice; it's about being kind. Be hard on the work, kind to people."

Chase: "We've created mandatory maker hours; no meetings, just making."

6. AI as Tool, Not Savior — Protecting Creativity's Human Core

Both leaders embrace AI for speed and efficiency but reject its overuse. For them, imagination remains the irreplaceable differentiator.

Frank: "AI is like a bionic arm; powerful, but it doesn't have a creative point of view."

Rachel has spent over a decade at Work&Co. In the episode, we discuss the company's unique origin story and how it has evolved alongside the transformative changes in the world of technology. 

We talk about..

1. The importance of carving out space for creative risk, which clients demand because they find it challenging to accomplish in their environment. 

2. How constraints increase the odds of innovation. 

3. Why is simplicity hard? Because it requires a combination of iteration and bravery.

4. Experience matters- be a user, feel and find the frictions- go to the edge and experience those use cases because innovation comes from trial and immersion. 

5. AI is transformative, but now is the time to get deep into the sandbox and play. 

Seven years ago, Rob Baird, Seth Gaffney, and Krystle Loyland left Mother NY to set up their own shop- Preacher.

I got the chance to sit down and have a chat with Rob and Seth. I learned they made a deliberate decision to locate to Austin- partly because Rob wanted to head back to Texas, but also because they wanted to impact, connect, and contribute to a place with a diverse artistic culture. They added an art gallery to their agency space from the get-go.

In the conversation, we talk about the importance of having a point of view as an agency, the advantage of having skilled practitioners from different disciplines as founders, working with friends, and building a "family" culture that is strong enough to support a cast of 60 folks.

Importantly, they've learned from some of the best along the way, and instead of jettisoning some of that thinking- they've used it as a foundation to build from; they clearly have tremendous respect for their alma mater- Mother; they parted as friends, and the larger agency has consistently supported them from the sidelines. 

Charlotte is the CEO of The Talent Business in North America.  

She has a background in advertising having worked in the client services side of a number of agencies including - TBWA, McCann, and JWT. 

For the past eight years, Charlotte has worked for The Talent Business in Los Angeles in New York.

In our conversation, we talk about the new energy around marketing talent and the desire for companies to find the right people to help them grow. 

We discuss the qualities that companies and brands are looking for and how these compare to the leadership qualities of old. 

In addition, we also talk about how the pandemic has accelerated the demand for change and has in some ways been a kind of incubator for a new breed of more vulnerable, open, and empathetic management. 

Cindy Judge is the President and CEO of the Boulder, Colorado-based- creative collective that works across the areas of research, strategy, design, and communication for its clients. 

SRG has expertise and a reputation for its work in the food and beverage space having worked with many of the leading restaurant chains and CPG brands. 

The focus of the conversation with Cindy focused on food- what we are seeing in the pandemic, what are some of the broader trends she is noticing and how are Americans' attitudes to food changing. 

Kristen Cavallo re-joined the Martin Agency as CEO 3 years ago. 

The agency was in crisis and was in urgent need of rejuvenation. 

She had spent 13 years at Martin in a variety of roles ranging from Planning Director to Head of Business Development but left in 2014 to join Mullen.

It was Kristen's first CEO job and she leaned in on her experience as a strategist- applying brand planning skills to the Martin Agency brand.

By going back to the origins, she unearthed the first principles of the agency and found they were still relevant today. 

In 2019, she was named Ad Age's Executive of the Year. 

Elizabeth Paul joined Martin from Mullen in January 2020 and has been instrumental in bringing new strategic thinking to the table- like the "Diversity Brief". 

Having built a strong team-when the pandemic struck, the team's strength paid dividends since they already had such a solid working relationship. 

Out of the gate- within days of the pandemic and the impending "work from home" IPG mandate, the Martin team brainstormed implementable ideas for every one of the agency's clients and was all in on getting these ideas made and ensuring there was no slow down or pause.

The change of leadership, the doubling down on the importance of getting brands talked about by consumers, and the commitment to diversity have all been strong transformative forces for Martin; not only has this helped to maintain the confidence of its existing client base, but it has also been instrumental in bringing in new clients. 

Since the pandemic struck in March of this year, the agency has brought on seven new pieces of business. 

In a wide-ranging conversation, we talk about the process of change, what the agency believes in, and why and how they managed to keep it all together working remotely and via Zoom

This episode features an interview with John V Willshire. 

John has been running his innovation consultancy- Smithery for the past nine years- after graduating in Economics- he trained as a market researcher, worked for Viacom Out of Home, and then took on various roles at PHD- including separately - in the disciplines of econometrics and innovation.

Somewhat disillusioned with agency innovation offerings - he set up his own with the guiding mantra "Make Things People Want, rather than Make People Want Things."

Our conversation was broad and touched on his background in economics to building motivating narratives and onto the future of work. 

We covered a lot of territory in the sixty or so minutes but looks like we are going to need to do a part 2 because we have more ground to cover. 

In this episode, I talk with Tim Maleeny who is the President and Chief Strategy Officer at Havas- NY.

Tim has an interesting background which includes stints at Hal Riney when Hal was working there, Ogilvy, RGA, and Havas.

In our conversation, we talk about how the discipline has evolved and is evolving, the importance of department and teamwork, and how to run an agency and win business during a pandemic- which Havas appears to be doing OK at.

We also talk about the importance of being passionate about something else other than advertising because that fuels the day job. 

Tim is the author of six almost seven mystery novels.

Many people from adland might be thinking that now might be a good time to start their own shop.

This episode features an interview with Meryl and Gaelan Draper who have been running their own shop- Quirk - for the past six years.

They have built a niche for themselves in the world of video advertising with a focus on delivering performance- this focus has attracted them to a host of DTC clients- including- the likes of Third Love and Keeps. 

In the conversation we talk about their backgrounds- Gaelan comes from film and Meryl has experience in PR, but also ran the IBM global business for Ogilvy in Bangalore, India. 

We also discuss how the past six years have been about how they have been continuously optimizing which comes from listening to their clients and really understanding needs.