These conversations are hard. I've listened back to this one a number of times and the only thing I can keep thinking is "nuance."

These discussions are nuanced, these topics are nuanced, life is nuanced.

On the one hand I feel like this is all we can do, have an open conversation with someone, hear their thoughts, ask questions, and try to understand different perspectives better.

On the other hand I feel like I should have pushed back much harder. Some of the words used weren't OK and I should have addressed that more, not to be combative but to try to get to a better place.

You guys will be the judge on this one. I do thank Tony for being on, sharing his thoughts, and being open to discussing and challenging them.

A more complete bio from Tony is below:

I am like all broken people who come from broken families. I am everyone who longs for family that never was given the chance to be. I am the example of why healthy families are the key to most problems, and the guide to bring young people back to the family. I am the harbinger for those who are actively trying to destroy the family, and the light for those trying to find their way to fight for what is normal. I'm just a regular guy, who see what's wrong, and wrote it down. Link to book is here

"Philosophy is actually the end of abstractions."

Wow, what a statement to think about. How different our approach to life might become if we embrace that thought. How much more reflective and humble we might become.

This conversation with Nikos was full of interesting and insightful thoughts. We talked philosophy, biology, evolution, psychology, and spirituality-- all with the same goal of trying to better understand what the hell we are doing here.

Not because it is interesting to think about, but because it is the realest, most practical question we can ask.

A more complete bio for Nikos below:

Following in the footsteps of Epicurus, Nikos Patedakis works with individuals, groups, and organizations, bringing to bear the most powerful and holistic teachings of the wisdom traditions in relation to our most daunting personal and global challenges.

His training includes earning two master’s degrees and a PhD, as well as a graduating from a 3-year, full-time certification course in specialized educational theory and practice—along with countless hours of spiritual practice and years spent teaching inside and outside of the university system, as well as years spent working as a consulting philosopher and corporate trainer for Fortune 500 companies.

Hajar cares deeply about humanity. She believes in humanity and that we can figure out ways to stop finding reasons to divide ourselves, causing suffering, and hating one another. She is also knowledgable enough to know that it won't be easy. That's why she's dedicated her life as a professor and author to try to better understand humanity and figure this thing out.

This thing is messy though. If I have learned nothing else from doing this show it is that. So we dove into the messiness of it and tried to understand together. We talked about civil rights, American Exceptionalism, poverty, human dignity, and other topics that should be front and center in all of our dialogue but often gets pushed to the side. What I appreciated most in this conversation, was Hajar's humility and willingness to try to understand those she doesn't agree with. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did.

More complete bio from Hajar-

Hajar Yazdiha is an Assistant Professor of Sociology, faculty affiliate of the Equity Research Institute, and a 2023-2025 CIFAR Global Azrieli Scholar. Dr. Yazdiha received her Ph.D. in Sociology from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and is a former Ford Postdoctoral Fellow and Turpanjian Postdoctoral Fellow of the Chair in Civil Society and Social Change.

Dr. Yazdiha’s new book entitled, The Struggle for the People’s King: How Politics Transforms the Memory of the Civil Rights Movement (Princeton University Press) examines how a wide range of rivaling social movements across the political spectrum deploy competing interpretations of the Civil Rights Movement to make claims around national identity and inclusion. Comparing how rival movements constituted by minority and majority groups with a range of identities — racial, gender, sexuality, religious, moral, political — battle over collective memory, the book documents how the misuses of the racial past erode multicultural democracy.

As many of you know, I love philosophy. I love talking to people about life, our experiences, and what this whole thing is all about. My guest today, Shaddow officially says he is an artist, musician, saxophonist, and writer--but he is also a philosopher. And one of my favorite types of people to talk about philosophy are people who bring both wisdom and passion. They have a fire about them that makes the insights they share even more impactful. Shaddow is that type of person. When he speaks about his experiences and his approach to life it is poetic and you can feel the words. There is a raw, authenticity to him and how he communicates.

We covered a lot of ground in this one, but all circling around Shaddow's most important value of "being authentic and your true self." He had some tough times when he was younger, struggling to fit in, not feeling supported by friends/family, and experiencing extreme loss. Through all of that trauma though he found clarity and optimism. One of the phrases that came up on the show was, "if you knew better, you'd do better." I think that applies to Shaddow, he decided he wanted to know better so he could do better. And he realized that the most important thing to "know" is yourself. Your true self though, not the one you think you are supposed to be or the one your family wants you to be--the one that is actually true to you. 

I often worry when we talk about topics like the essence of human nature, the journey to knowing yourself, or becoming enlightened--all of these grandiose concepts that are super important but can feel really idealistic. I worry that some people will think it is all too abstract and not think there is any value in it. But that is why I love talking to people like Shaddow, who infuse their experience, their personality, and their authentic story into the conversation to help make it real for others.

My guest today, Kevin, is the CFO, Founder & Co-Host of Next Level University, a Global Top 100 Self-Improvement Podcast. As Kevin explains it, "in his twenties he had it all: a beautiful girlfriend, high paying job, sports car, his dream body"-- but it wasn't enough. He still struggled with depression, anxiety, and a lack of self worth. After he hit rock bottom he decided to go all in on holistic self improvement and improving his mindset. Eventually he evolved enough to the point where he is today, where he can help coach, guide, and inspire others to achieve that same level of self improvement. 

Real talk, when you first read that it would be easy to be cynical and say, "Oh great, another self improvement coach with a podcast talking about easy ways to improve your life." I get it, there seems to be a lot of them out there and it is easy to get jaded. But as I often say, that is why I love doing this show. I get to have conversations with people like Kevin and learn about who he really is. I get to hear how hard he has worked, for years, to overcome his issues. I get to see his value of "humility" in action as he talks about his missteps and the tough lessons he's learned a long the way. I am really glad I've been able to overcome some of my own insecurities so that my cynical side didn't win out and allowed me to have this beautiful conversation with Kevin.

We covered a lot of ground in this one, talking about the pros and cons of caring what other people think, how to balance humility and confidence, and why it seems so hard to be a good person. He had such interesting, insightful, and authentic thoughts on all of these topics. And what made those thoughts even more valuable was that he rooted so much of it in real life stories and experiences he's had. That made it that much more tangible and impactful. 

It is easy to claim to be a self improvement expert and try to make a few bucks, it is much harder to do the pain staking work to figure out your own shit and push yourself every day to try to continuously improve, in the hopes of helping others. Kevin falls into the second category and I thank him a ton for being on and sharing his perspective with me.

One of my favorite types of episodes is when my guest has a really thoughtful, deliberate point of view and we can walk down the thread to try and understand it at a very deep, meaningful level. This was that type of episode. My guest, Dr. Capellan started with her most important value being "living up to her full potential." So we started at the beginning; how do you know what your full potential is and what you are supposed to be living up to? From there we worked through it exploring things like the intuitive voice that tries to guide us, the role our subconscious plays, limiting beliefs (the good and bad of them), and understanding if we are predestined to achieve certain things.

As a way of background, Dr. Capellan is the Founder and Director of Transformational Coaching Certifications and is an internationally recognized and award-winning educator, coach and TEDx speaker. She is a former lecturer at the University of Miami, Herbert Business School, a leadership and Diversity, Equity & Inclusion speaker and trainer, and a certified executive coach. She is currently writing a book, Leadership is a Responsibility, about her career journey experience as a Black Hispanic woman in Academia, the stories of Black women in the workplace, and the need of responsible leaders to create a more equitable society.

It was interesting to learn more about her background as well and some of the experiences that led her to this work. We even leaned in a bit and spoke about racism and discrimination to understand why that person might think those beliefs are them actually living up to their full potential. One of the most useful and interesting parts of the discussion was when Dr. Capellan shared her "best version of yourself" exercise. We've probably heard of some form of this before (kind of gets to the "What would Jesus do?" concept) but, as I always try to do on this show, we pressure tested it to understand how it really works, what challenges it might have, and how it worked for Dr. Capellan personally. 

There are often times on this show where I like to wax philosophically with my guest. We can get very abstract and theoretical and just explore concepts with no guardrails or limits. I think there is such beauty and value in those types of conversations. But sometimes, it is equally as valuable to ground ourselves in science and data. We still explore those same philosophical concepts, but we do it through the lens of research and empirical evidence. Because when you do that, it makes you look at things from a different perspective, it forces you to be tighter in your logical assumptions, and it challenges you to think in a new way. That is what I "loved" about this conversation with my guest Aaron. He brought an immense wealth of knowledge, research, and data to one of the most abstract, philosophical topics you can imagine-- Love. 

As way of background, Dr. Aaron Ahuvia is an author (The Things We Love: How Our Passions Connect Us and Make Us Who We Are) and a Professor of Marketing (University of Michigan, Dearborn campus) and research psychologist who has been ranked in the top 2% of all scientists in the world across all disciplines by an independent study from Stanford University. He is a leading expert on brand love and has won numerous awards for this work. He has presented research or consulted for Google, L'Oréal S.A., Samsung, Maybelline New York, Procter & Gamble, Audi, General Motors, Microsoft, Ford, and many, many others. And maybe most importantly, he believes love is the most important value of them all. 

It is hard to summarize this discussion because there were so many interesting discussions, debates, and insights. We talked about the evolutionary history of love, the debate around ethical egoism, the machine like nature of our brains in making decisions, and perhaps my favorite part of the discussion--given all of the scientific explanations of what love is; do we still think it is this magical phenomena that we often are led to believe? Or is it just another in a long line of biological processes we perform without any real thought or free will behind it? Furthermore is it even a good thing that we have the ability to dissect these human experiences/phenomena to try to make sense of what they really mean? So much good stuff in this one.

My guest today, Marie, has had an amazingly tragic, yet beautiful life. We didn't get too deep into the tragic part of it in the show so I will give some of the background here. When she was fourteen she became a mom and was in a very toxic relationship which she stayed in for 25 years. She had three more children, was victim to domestic abuse, drugs/alcohol, and infidelity (by both her and her husband). She also experienced the tragic deaths of her father, sister, and niece (which was particularly horrible as her sister had a bad reaction to the wrong medication and was hallucinating when she dropped her daughter out of a window). For many people that would have been enough and for Marie it almost was. She had bouts with depression and suicide where it just seemed like life was never going to be OK.

But that is where the beautiful part comes in. Marie eventually got out of that toxic relationship and married a new man who she loves deeply. She took the lessons she learned from her experiences and realized that she needed to find "honesty" and a relationship with God to get her back to where she wanted to be in life. For Marie, a relationship with God meant having a reason and a method to hold herself accountable. Having the ability to figure out where she could be better, where she needed to make changes, and where she could be more honest with herself and the world. Eventually she took all of this wisdom she gained and wrote a book called The Pretty Divorce, where she tries to help women realize that they have the ability to come out of toxic relationships, create brighter futures for themselves, and have healthy relationships with people who truly love them, if they so choose to do so. 

I appreciated so much Marie's raw authenticity and sharing stories of where she gets it right but also where she gets it wrong. It made the insights she was sharing that much more potent. We also spent a good bit of time talking about her relationship with God and what that looks like, as well as the importance of parents embracing honesty and accountability with and for their children. This was truly a beautiful conversation and I appreciate Marie a ton for being on.

Growth is such an interesting concept to me (and my guest, CK). In many ways it seems like growth is not something we choose to value but is inherent in who we are as humans. When we were given the "gift" of consciousness it set us down a never ending path of trying to find new and better ways to grow. We want to develop new technology, new tools, more revenue, more resources, personal growth, professional growth, and on and on. This has obviously brought us a lot of amazing innovations throughout human history, but is there a shadow side? Is there a "curse" to our consciousness and the never ending search for growth? This was much of what we discussed during this episode. 

As way of background, CK is a tech entrepreneur who started a company called Taggun which uses AI to automatically process receipts and invoices for customers. CK is fascinated by AI and thinks there is so much value to making it accessible for everyone. This is right in line with his core value of "growth." We should be using this amazing technology to grow even more as a society. But at what cost, at what risk? CK was incredibly thoughtful about all of these questions and the implications of growth, making it for a really rich conversation.

One of my favorite parts of the conversation was when he spoke about his optimism for humanity, despite the potential risks of an unquenchable thirst for growth. We were discussing the similarities between AI and the human mind and CK's take is that there is still so much unknown magic in how the human mind works that cannot be built into any AI system. It is that same magic that he believes is going to save us. There is something in our consciousness that allows us, no matter how bad we screw up as humans--and we screw up a lot, to find a way to recalibrate and course correct. There is something deep rooted in us that brings us back to "good." I sure hope he right.

Cassandra has been on a journey focused on teaching others to find their authenticity, to have effective/healthy relationships, and to better communicate with those around them. She has been on this journey to help others, in many ways, because she has been on a journey to help herself. Cassandra went through some pretty terrible traumas in her life, including being sexually abused when she was younger, and more recently when being hit by a drunk driver she finally began to realize the importance of figuring out how to be at peace with herself. 

As way of background, Cassandra is an author ("Being Whole"), professor, communication consultant, and motivational speaker. She chose "authenticity" as her most important value because she believes that is the key to dealing with your trauma and ultimately finding peace. What I loved about having her on as a guest was the awareness and raw honesty with which she spoke. At one point she was explaining some difficult times in her life, where she had this overriding feeling that something was wrong with her even though on the surface everything seemed like it should be fine. I think most of us find ourselves with that feeling at some point in our lives, so it really resonated to hear her speak about it and how she worked her way through it.

Towards the end of the show we had a really interesting conversation about kids and parenting; and specifically how much we should try and teach kids these lessons and life tools. We tried to understand the implications of engaging them in this type of deep self reflective and empowering work at a young age, as well as the implications of not doing it. It is obviously a tricky path to navigate, without clear answers, but we both agreed the more we can introduce our children to these concepts at a young age, the better off they and the world will be.

The theme that stood out most in this conversation with Isabella, was the importance of intuition in our lives. Isabella spoke about how she has used intuition and finding her inner voice to face her fears, overcome hurdles, and achieve a deep sense of freedom and happiness. At the root of all this is this idea that we don't really need guardrails, we don't need limiting beliefs, and we don't need societal rules to tell us how to be free and happy. On one hand there is something so deeply appealing and logical about that idea. It is something that has transformed Isabella's life and she believes it can do the same for others as well. On another hand though, there is something deeply troubling about it. We talked a lot about this during the episode, but there is a view that we can't just rely on intuition. Sometimes guardrails or rules are necessary to help save us from ourselves. How do we protect against becoming selfish or destructive? How do we have so much confidence in our own internal intuition to assume we can trust it implicitly? You start to recognize that there is this leap of faith component to it. We have to have faith that we can trust our intuition even if logically we cannot explain why. We have to accept something to be true even if we can't understand it. It was really enjoyable and insightful to work through all of this with Isabella as she was really thoughtful about all of it. Isabella would be the first to acknowledge that she doesn't have all the answers to these questions and she very much understands the concerns. But all she can say is that given her experience and the work she does (as an author, entrepreneur, and futurist) she has found that trusting her inner voice has led her to much better life. Maybe she summed it best with a quote from one of her favorite movies, Legends of the Fall, "Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends.”

Brent is a Los Angeles native who, inspired by 9/11, got fluent in Arabic, earned a grad degree in Egypt, and then worked as a CIA counterterrorism analyst from 2010 to 2015. His work included tracking ISIS external operators and extremist psychology. He also recently published an LA Times op-ed comparing radicalization trends between ISIS foreign fighters and US political conspiracy theorists. This all made for a really interesting backdrop for our conversation. Brent is someone who has seen the ugliest aspects of human nature first hand, he has extensively studied the psychology behind this ugliness, and he has thought a lot about what it tells us about human nature and our future.

Brent's most important value was "curiosity" because through all of his work and research, he has found that being curious is the thing that allows us to connect with other human beings on a genuine level, rather than being controlled by fear or tribalism. This is especially important today when the media and digital technology seems to be designed explicitly to use fear to exploit our reptilian brain. But if we can be curious and try to better understand the source of our fear and the true nature of the "other" person/group, it gives us a chance for a better outcome. This is not meant to be an idealistic state, where everyone loves everyone and agrees all the time. Our cultures, experiences, and genetics (among other things) will always lead us to see the world differently from one another--and that is OK. The goal is to be curious about those differences rather than fearful of them.

We rounded out the discussion talking about the human need to be a part of a group. Brent believes that often, whether it be a religious group, terrorist group, political group, or what have you, we choose to align with these groups because of what we stand to gain rather than because we actually believe what they stand for. That need to be a part of group is deeply embedded in our coding from the time of early humans, which again speaks to the point that we need to be actively curious at all times so that we can address these primal thought processes when ever they arise.

Marcus is the founder and creator of RelativeVisionTv & Media, where he gets to live out his passion as a Director, videographer, photographer, and journalist. Marcus believes there is so much more to share and show the world than the limits the current media networks provide. A lot of this is rooted in his desire to leave a legacy for his son and his community. He believes playing your part in your company and making a positive impact is what the game of life is all about. Ironically though, the way you can most effectively play a part in your community and help others, is by focusing on yourself first. 

As Marcus explained it throughout the episode, you have to have self confidence and clarity about who you are before you can even begin to think about navigating the world around you. There is way too much fear, bias, insecurity, anxiety, propaganda, and hate in the world to ever be able to make a positive impact if you don't start by figuring out your self. So we spent a lot of the discussion probing and exploring how you can figure yourself out. Not in a gimmicky, 5-step approach or anything like that, but a much messier, realistic way. We leaned into the challenges and tried to find useful approaches to TRY to do this work. That is an important distinction, because at best we are all trying to do this work and figure it out. We never get the luxury of feeling like we've finished the job.

The other aspect of this conversation I really appreciated was Marcus' humility and openness. We all have our own beliefs and preferences on what we think is best, but Marcus is very careful to never allows himself to think he knows better than anyone else. Some people believe in God, some people don't. Some people want to make as much money as they can to have nice things, some people want a simple life focused on family. Some people love meditating on the beach, some people love being out in a big city surrounded by people. Marcus understands each of us has our own path to happiness and wellness, so he does not judge anyone. He just hopes each of us continues our work down that path because that is the way we heal the world.

Radell's mission is to have authentic conversations, expand people's perspectives, and find a way out of the toxic political discourse that exists in our world today. He hopes to use his podcast (https://www.purplepoliticalbreakdown.com) to show people that you can use logic, reason, and understanding to work through some of the most complex and nuanced issues that society faces.

This approach obviously resonates with me and I enjoyed digging into some of today's political issues to see how Radell's approach might help solve them. Maybe even more so, I enjoyed getting to better understand him, his value system, and why he finds this work so important.

He is also another in a long line of guests who has optimism that humanity can be better. Sadly, I find myself more pessimistic as time goes on, so we also spent time debating if we have any chance of figuring this thing out or if we are just doomed.

More complete bio from Radell-

Navigating the vast amount of bouncing around the political spectrum my entire life I have finally figured something important out. It doesn't matter. I've been religious, been in the military, went to a liberal school and all in all none of the political biases matter. We shouldn't let toxic discourse cloud our judgement and find a solution through logic and conversation. In pursuit of this mission I created this podcast to focus on these important conversations.

I still remember the day I met Steve almost 4 years ago. I had been thinking about trying Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for a while and when I finally got up the courage to walk into my local 10th Planet gym, Steve was behind the front desk. If you had told me that day that me and him would be on a podcast together having this conversation, I would have said "you are f*cking crazy." I never could have imagined how much BJJ and more specifically the 10th Planet family would have impacted my life. And even more specifically Steve, as the owner and head instructor, brings a mindset, philosophy, and energy that drove a lot of that impact. 

Steve and I are similar in that we are constantly seeking "truth." We want to learn more and understand more about ourselves and the universe. So it wasn't a surprise to me that we talked very little about Jiu Jitsu. We spent our time talking about truth, freedom, accountability, God, evolution, happiness, and lots of other super interesting topics. Steve is a free thinker and has really interesting perspectives on all of these philosophical areas, so it was a rich discussion. If you love thinking about really meta topics, then this is the episode for you. It is always fun when I know the guest too, because it allows for even more back and forth and exploration of their views, so we got really deep into all of it.

Probably the thing that stood out most as I reflected back on this conversation was the journey Steve has been on in finding his truth. You'll hear him talk about it a bit, but when I first met Steve he was probably much more focused on growing his business and viewed life more "traditionally." As he began to question and explore more though he went through a process of realizing that self ownership, self love, and accountability are the keys to finding your "truth." It is not about thinking you know better than someone else, or pointing fingers at other people, or focusing on all of the negative aspects of life. It is about searching for answers that make sense for you and trying to embody them as best you can; while understanding you will never stop learning and evolving a long the way. 

"Isn't it a beautiful thing that we get the chance to do more work to become better people?" This was the quote and the sentiment that stuck with me most from my discussion with Denise. We spent much of our conversation talking about how hard it is to truly know and love yourself, how fear and judgement can paralyze us, and how painful it can be to accept the truth about ourselves; and Denise's view on it all was: isn't it beautiful? Isn't it beautiful that we have the ability to view all of these things not as unbearable, overwhelming work; but rather as opportunities to learn and grow? She wasn't in anyway dismissing how hard and ugly the world can be at times, but in spite of all of it she still firmly believes that finding a way to love yourself is the most powerful answer to all of these issues.

As a way of background, Denise was an educator for 31 years (working with many emotionally and developmentally challenged children) and is now an an experienced Empowerment Life Coach and who has worked with hundreds of clients taking them from being hollow, overwhelmed and lost to finding purpose in their lives. As she explained, it was her time as an educator where she had to find ways to understand, connect, and guide children through their own challenges with ego, insecurity, fear, and self hate; that equipped her for the job she has today.

What I loved about this conversation, was that we literally followed the thread of "loving your self" from the beginning and probed, explored, and questioned it all as we worked our way through it. We talked about using nature to help learn about ourselves, how to separate the external noise from your true voice, and the importance of trial and error. Along the way we also asked some philosophical questions like; should we blindly love ourselves no matter what, how do you remove the external noise but not become self centered, and does love of self really help in the most dire of circumstances? This was a really fun and wisdom packed episode, so much thanks to Denise for being on and sharing her perspectives on life.

Larry is a Husband, Father, Marine Veteran, Entrepreneur, Teacher and Political Activist. His mission is to help people find happiness through community and purpose, and as he sees it, that often happens by overcoming bad policy decisions in government. He was the 2018 Libertarian New York State Gubernatorial candidate and garnered about 100,000 votes (more than any previous Libertarian candidate) and is running again for New York State Governor this year.

I really enjoyed getting to talk to Larry, given his beliefs and aspirations. A lot of what this show is about is to try and really dig in to understand who the guest really is. Obviously it starts with what they value, but also goes to how they think, what they are motivated by, how aware they are, etc. So it was really cool to have that type of conversation with someone looking to achieve what Larry is looking to achieve.

He started the conversation off with "empathy" as his most important value. He had a unique take on empathy, in that it is valuable because it allows for more efficiency in solving the big problems we are trying to solve as a society. That naturally led to a conversation about government and the issues Larry sees. We debated some real life scenarios of how his policies would try to address issues like over spending, misaligned incentives, lobbyism, the military industrial complex, and much more.

What I found really interesting about all of this was how pragmatic and incremental Larry's approach is. Most politicians today promise perfection or some utopia that will solve all of the world's problems. Larry's view is, "if you measure my plan against perfection, I'll lose every time" because perfection isn't realistic. But if you are looking for progress and improvement then you should seriously consider his pragmatic approach. Everyone will not agree with his policies or views and that is OK; but it is hard to argue that we are not better off with thoughtful, empathetic leaders in charge rather than dogmatic, unrealistic ones we mostly see today.

"God is about relationships not religion." That was a quote from my guest, El, that really stood out for me. We spent much of the discussion exploring what it means to "talk to God" and how this thing we call "religion" was actually never part of God's plan. El believes that God loves all of us and we were created to be in an on-going, intentional relationship with our creator. At this point, if you are an atheist or not very "religious" you may be starting to roll your eyes. But I have to say, even as someone who considers himself an atheist, I deeply enjoy these conversations about faith and God.

This came up numerous times throughout the episode, but the more I learn and grow, the more I realize how thin the line is between science/logic and God/faith. We often like to make it a very binary dynamic where either you believe in God or you believe in science. You either believe the thoughts in your head are explained by a physiological process including neurons and hormones, or you believe those thoughts are a voice from your creator trying to nudge you towards your true purpose in life. What I loved about El, is that she has a very open and exploratory relationship with God. She believes it is possible both could be true. Science does explain the literal mechanics of how we think, but that does not preclude God from existing and being the ultimate energy that generated the mechanics that allow us to form those thoughts.

The reason El has so much passion about her faith and love for God is because she has seen first hand how it changed her life. She went from someone who feared God and was angry with life, to someone who she describes as a "irrepressible silver-lining spotter with a compulsion to say the stuff most other people only say in their heads. A cheerleader & image bearer, helping you see who God created you to be." This was a truly delightful and insightful conversation, that made me think about my relationship with "God" in ways I had not before.

I often talk about the concept of the "philosopher king" on this podcast. It is something I admire and probably aspire towards. The idea that the "best" people are those that don't acknowledge they are the best, that the wisest are very open about how much they don't know, or that those in power are the ones that don't think they deserve to be in power. The humility and self awareness required to achieve that status is almost mythical in nature. The reality is none of us will probably ever get to that state, but I always value getting to talk to people who aim to live up to that ideal.

My guest today, Gerry, is one of those people. It doesn't take long when you talk to somebody like that to recognize it. It started with his stated value of "reasonableness", which he followed up with an acknowledgement that none of us are nearly as reasonable as we think we are but he is doing his best to try. There was that humility and self awareness; and it came through many times throughout the conversation. Gerry's journey to be more reasonable started about 25 years ago and it was really interesting to hear him talk about the experience. Ironically, he said that he has never been called unreasonable more than since he started making a concerted effort to be more reasonable.

I think that speaks to the nature of the society we live in today. It has become "unreasonable" to try to be objective, fact driven, and humble. Society values people who have hot takes or make bold, conclusive claims. So much so, that Gerry actually described his decision to try to be more reasonable as the "best worst decision of his life." He's seen a ton of benefits from it but he's also found that friends, family, and other acquaintances can get really bothered by it. Obviously he nor I are trying to be overly dramatic about it, there are clearly much harder things to deal with in life, but I do understand the tough road it can be. I really enjoyed exploring all of this with Gerry and trying to understand a bit better what it means to be "reasonable."

Anthony is a Corporate Trainer & Motivational Speaker specializing in happiness and well-being to improve team dynamics, communication, trust and productivity. His work is based on the research in the fields neuroplasticity, positive psychology and leadership. Given Anthony's background and knowledge this made for a great discussion. We were able to explore big topics like happiness, service to others, gratitude, and others from a philosophical, psychological, and physiological perspective (all the "p's"); which I think you have to do when you are trying to make sense of topics like these.

Anthony started the show by talking about "service" as his most important value, but we quickly used that to run with and talk about "happiness.". We explored if happiness can ever be rooted in pain, if fun generates more happiness than purpose, and how detachment can be the highest form of happiness. Happiness has had such a heavy presence on many of the episodes, so it was really interesting to deep dive into the concept with someone who spends so much time thinking about it.

My favorite part of the conversation though came when we discussed the idea of transcendence. We started to discuss the idea that our human consciousness is allowing us to transcend nature. It seems we are able to detach ourselves from our evolutionary programming and make decisions outside the bounds of what nature or our genetics have encoded. If that is true and we have transcended nature would that make use god like? If we can find happiness in our suffering, is that a divine act? The discussion around all of this was super interesting and thought provoking, so a big thanks to Anthony for being on sharing his perspective.

Silvia is an author and a psychotherapist who believes in the transformative power of psychotherapy to change individuals who can change the world.  
She created the Critical Therapy Institute to expand psychoanalytic praxis to reflect how race, class, gender, and religion intersect with psychological conflicts. Critical Therapy works from the premise that the personal is political. To be more effective, psychotherapy must therefore interrogate the patient’s as well as the therapist’s worldview. As you might imagine I find this approach fascinating.

Silvia values "understanding" as the best tool we have to bring more compassion and open dialogue into the world. We need to do the work to understand ourselves, understand others, and understand why we experience the world the way we do. If we do that, then we should have less hidden fears, insecurities, and biases. The ripple effect of that is massive and is why Silvia is so passionate about her work.

I agree with Silvia that we should look at the whole picture and we should do the hard work to better understand ourselves and the world around us. So we spent a good bit of the discussion debating why it is so hard to actually do this. We discussed different factors like power dynamics, parenting approaches, and historical trends. We also discussed current societal issues like race and the patriarchy to see how the value of "understanding" could help.

Maybe my favorite part of the discussion was towards the end when we turned it onto ourselves. Do we actually practice what we preach? Do we prioritize understanding when engaging with someone we disagree? Many of these topics are so easy to buy into conceptually, but when real life emotions and consequences are involved it can all go out the window. So we explored a few social/political topics that ran counter to Silvia's beliefs and saw how understanding worked in those situations as well. 

Michaell was born in Vienna-Austria and now lives in California. He is a Multimedia Artist, writer, and advisor/educator, who is trying to raise our awareness to the true potential of humanity and nature, which are continuously diminished by man-made systems like technology and the economy. Michaell's value was "experiencing his humanness", meaning he looks to experience all aspects of life to try to tap into our human superpowers of creativity, healthy discourse and wisdom.

Art was obviously a big part of the conversation with Michaell and I found it really valuable to deep dive into "art" and understand what role it plays in our lives. Michaell believes one of art's main functions is that it allows meaning to reveal itself. We live in a world filled with dichotomies, contradictions, and paradoxes. We know we should seek the truth about life, but we also know we will likely never find any concrete answers. We all recognize the beauty of freedom and openness, but we also understand the need for systems and structure. I spend a lot of time thinking about these dichotomies and trying to make sense of them. Michaell helped me start to realize the role art plays in bridging the gap. Maybe my favorite quote of the show was "art wants one thing, to be created and exposed." There is something beautiful in that. Something that feels very related to the concept of "truth." Just like art, truth doesn't care about biases, flaws, or insecurities--it just cares about being what it is. 

It made me think that if we want solve many of the issues in the world today, we all need to embrace more of an artistic mindset. It doesn't mean we all have to become painters or musicians, but it would benefit us greatly to not be so finite in our thinking. Michaell believes we have an amazing potential as humans but we limit ourselves with finite and fixed systems. Art is perhaps the most powerful tool we have to rise above those systems and experience life for what it is meant to be.

Gabi is a full time nomad, adventure athlete, and entrepreneur. She grew up with a really unconventional lifestyle, living in RV and traveling the world in search of adventure with her family of 7, ever since she was 14 years old. Through spending so much time in nature, pursuing flow state through climbing, surfing, and mountain biking, she discovered what it means to feel intrinsically worthy & fulfilled-- which led her to her most important value of "personal power."

For Gabi, a big part of embracing personal power is about making a choice to face your fear, pushing beyond your edges, and transforming into the best version of yourself. That feeling of courage and pride you get when you can do that opens you up to so many new experiences in life. We spoke a good bit about ego as part of this discussion too. There is obviously a big shadow part of the ego that can limit us, but Gabi also spoke about the positive side of the ego-- the part that allows us to feel pride when we accomplish really hard or scary things. We also discussed how the ego fits into the flow state. She had a really interesting take, which was that when we enter the flow state, our ego recognizes it no longer has to step in to try to protect us, but rather can take a back seat and just enjoy the ride.

What I loved about this conversation too, was Gabi's authenticity and self awareness. She acknowledged a lot of the privilege she had getting to grow up the way she did and all the positive things it brought her. But she didn't shy away from discussing some of the negative parts of it too. She spoke about how she struggled fitting into society, always felt like the "weird one", and to this day still deals with anxiety around external judgement. That ability to provide a holistic view of her experience (plus her knowledge of the brain and psychology) made her a super insightful guest. I know her lifestyle might not be for everyone, but regardless there is a lot to be learned from her perspective and wisdom.

Mitchell is a career military man first enlisting in the Marines and later being commissioned in the Army. He has multiple combat tours as an Infantry Platoon Leader in Iraq, and later, as an Infantry Company Commander leading the last fighting force out of Iraq in 2011. He has been awarded numerous medals and badges for his service and even after his military career has continued to serve, as a Financial Planner, helping hundreds of soldiers (and others) to improve their financial well being.

Mitchell started us off with "life time learning" as his most important value because he believes learning from the experience, wisdom, and mistakes of those that came before us is an amazing gift. It was really interesting to hear Mitchell's own story and how he didn't follow this value for much of his life. He was raised to believe you have to figure things out for yourself. Despite appreciating some of the benefits this brought him, this is not the approach he takes with his own daughter. He tries to teach her as much as he can, so she won't have to go through the same struggles that he did. 

This led to a fundamental discussion about why we value grit, resiliency, and mental toughness so much; yet many of us strive so hard to try to make our kids' lives easier. How do we make sense of that contradiction, that we are happy we went through struggles in life, but we don't want our kids to go through the same thing? Is it that we really believe it is better for them or do we just think they're not able to handle the suffering we've been through? We got into all of these questions and many more including topics like vulnerability, gratitude, enlightenment, and the unfairness of life.

A big thanks to Mitchell, firstly for his service, but also for being so open about his military experience and how it shaped the way he sees the world today.

There are some conversations, where you feel like you are truly examining the human experience; not for any specific reason, but just because both people are so fascinated with understanding.

This discussion with Troy (https://troyhadeed.com/) was a beautiful, deep look into what this existence is really all about. Neither of us would be so naive to assume we have all the answers, but that is not the point. The point is caring enough to explore it.

Troy has lived an interesting life and has a super unique perspective. Maybe most importantly he cares a lot about humanity and the world around him. We talked about love, God, spirituality, science, nature, and life. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

A more complete bio from Troy-

Troy Hadeed was born in Trinidad, wrote his first letter to the editor at 10, has taught yoga internationally for over 15 years, and has founded several successful businesses, including a hemp store, a waste oil recycling business and a yoga studio. He has walked coast-to-coast across central America, navigated the world on a ship, spent prolonged periods in silence, and is continuously seeking to make sense of the human experience.

In all things, Troy hopes that his life will assist others in rediscovering a relationship with the God of their understanding while inspiring people to embody more compassion, understanding, and love.

I was super excited to talk to Tricia because the focus of her work is to "teach teenagers to be happier, one habit at a time." I am a strong believer that if we want to improve society we need to start with kids. I am also a firm believer that "happiness" is something that we should strive for in life, so I was eager to hear more about Tricia's perspective. As she explained it when she says happiness, she means the type that "comes with a sense of purpose, lasts long term, surfaces to keep you going when you have something boring or overwhelming to do, and keeps a little light on for you when you’re going through a dark patch."

Tricia believes that "creativity" is the way to achieve happiness because when you realize that in every moment you have the ability to create something, life becomes more expansive and enjoyable. This is especially true for teenagers, because typically their days feel very regimented and restrictive. School runs on a very specific schedule, there are very strict demands on what they must do, and it is very easy to forget about the power of creation. So Tricia's goal is to reactivate that creativity and empower them to be excited about how they choose to spend their time.

We didn't shy away from some of the obvious, potential concerns some might have about her work. Some might say it is too idealistic; life is about structure and not always getting to do what you want. Others might say we are already coddle kids too much, so trying to indulge that further is going to cause more problems. And others might say all these "soft skills" Tricia is trying to teach sound nice but don't actually apply to real life. We explored all of this and tried to objectively assess and work through them.

What I was most impressed by in this conversation, was that even though it was focused on "softer" skills/topics, Tricia applies a deep logic in what she does. She doesn't dismiss the importance of structure, limitations, and struggle; she just wants to make sure we aren't forgetting about the importance of creativity and happiness as well.

In 2014, at 21 years old, Harriet had just completed her degree and was traveling with her best friend when they were hit by a car traveling 101mph. Her friend was killed on the scene and Harriet woke up one month later in a very different world, one filled with an insurmountable amount of pain and with no idea how to fit back into her old life. She went through a long recovery that left her in a wheel chair, a traumatic brain injury, and a mental breakdown; at one point she actually believed she had died in the crash and she was now in hell. 

When you spend your time searching for the meaning of life and trying to better understand how we are "supposed" to live, it is unbelievably insightful to talk to people who have been through experiences like this. The perspective Harriet has on suffering, grieving, mental health, relationships, and many other things is so valuable; because it has all been pressure tested by one of the worst experiences anyone can have. 

Interestingly, through all of her experiences, Harriet has come to believe that "consistency" is the most important value. By consistency she meant both the consistency to commit and put in the work to get to the outcomes you want in life, but also consistency in being true to yourself. As we talked about on the show, there are so many examples today of people being inconsistent with their words, beliefs, values, and actions. We say we are worried about safety or justice but we are willing to unfairly hurt others to achieve it. We say we are worried about intolerance or hate, but we are willing to tear other people down to get our way. 

Circling this back to Harriet's experience, she explained how being honest and consistent with herself was the most important aspect of her recovery. The world is not always fair, it is not always beautiful, and it is not always kind. Therefore you have to do the work for yourself to figure out who you are, what matters to you, who you want to be in this world, and then stay consistent to it, in spite of everything the world might throw at you. 

Creation was the value Daniel (an autodidact, business owner, and podcast host- https://theallunknowing.com) chose for his most important value. Daniel chose creation because he believes our ability to create is our greatest tool to improve the world. He also believes logically, if we exist, then improvement must be our main objective. What else could we be working towards other then to make the world the best place we can?

The problem comes, as it always does, when we try to lock down what "best" actually means. We tried to look at obvious examples of "creating human improvements" (e.g., plumbing, medicine, AI, social media, or any other example you can think of) to determine if the world is really becoming a better place. But none of them seemed objectively net positive. Even if you look at the reduction of human suffering as a clear marker of human improvement, you have to ask, among other things: how do we measure suffering, on what time horizon are we measuring, and is every reduction in suffering inherently a good thing? As we explored these questions, we constantly ran into this dichotomy of life, where we know we must strive to be better but we have no idea what better means.

All of these questions led to a discussion of hatred as an example of how this dichotomy could lead to our demise. Because we can never turn off the need to improve; it eventually leads to some of the ugliest aspects of life. Maybe hatred was just humans taking something functional like anger and optimizing it too far. Maybe thats what we always do; we take things like survival, or pleasure, or happiness and we optimize them until it becomes negative. 

Following the thread through this discussion is a great example of what I think Daniel meant with the value of creation. Connecting with another human being to generate new thoughts and insights on questions like these, is maybe the best chance we have to break that dichotomy. I really appreciate Daniel for bringing his perspective and for exploring all of these topics with me.

Sometimes I find it really insightful and enjoyable to think about common concepts or ideas and dissect them. To try to go beyond the words we normally use to convey their meaning and think about them at a much deeper level. In this conversation with Sofia we ended up doing that with the word "pain." Sofia started off stating "growth through trauma" as her most important value, so that set us down the path of understanding what trauma or pain actually is. So often we think of it as a negative thing (and rightfully so), but how do we make sense of the fact that so much growth and positivity can come from these same negative experiences? 

To step back for a second, Sofia is a law student, researcher, and podcaster (Raw Paradox Talks); but ultimately she is someone who is fascinated by the human experience and wants to understand it as best she can. She is also someone who has experienced a lot of trauma in her life, so when you put those things together you get a really thoughtful, genuine discussion about trauma and the role it plays.

What I found myself thinking about the most after this conversation, as I mentioned up front, is how inadequate words like "pain", "sadness", and "suffering" are in explaining what we actual experience as humans. How do we make sense of the world if some of the basic tenets are unreliable to us? How do we reconcile the fact that we want to feel "good" but must feel "bad" to do so. Most of us agree that pain is a necessary, sometimes beautiful part of life, but we take that idea for granted. How often do we question what kind of world it is that we live in where something that at a very base, primal level seems so bad for us, but is actually a source of beauty? 

If this sounds like really abstract thinking, I get it, because it is. But that was the spirit of the conversation Sofia and I had. Just two people who spend a lot of time thinking about life and the various experiences we've had, trying to make some sense of it.

Connor is a film director, writer, and traveler. He has a degree in Creative Technologies and works as a video producer for Bright Trip and Debutify, but he also spends almost all of his time traveling. As Connor puts it, "I've traveled to 35 countries to try and understand humanity’s tests and treasures." He values "community" and connection above all and is constantly seeking out novel perspectives and experiences. Traveling and gaining new experiences is the norm for Connor, as his father was in England's Royal Navy and they moved constantly when he was a kid. But he has carried this through to his adult life, with a major goal to bike all across the world.

I love talking to people like Connor who have cut their own path in life and are deeply reflective about the choices they've made. Too often the "normal" reaction to someone like Connor is to assume they haven't figured out what they want to do with their life or they are not mature enough to settle down. I see it completely differently though. I think having the courage to follow your passions and values, despite the risks and the push back from society, is actually a sign of extremely high self awareness and maturity. 

All of this makes for a great episode because that same courage it takes to live authentically, usually results in having really open, genuine conversations as well. There are certain people you speak with where you realize pretty quickly that you both are willing to "bring the walls down" and just speak honestly. And it is in those conversations where you can learn the most, about the other person but also about yourself. So it was no surprise in this discussion that we spoke about Connor's story, how he approaches life, and his goals for the future, but also spoke a good bit about my personal journey through life as well. 

As Connor explained with his value of community, finding moments like this to make a true connection with another human being is a special thing. Hopefully this episode inspires all of us to go out and do more of the same.

Bill is someone who was born in the 1950's and grew up in a culture where "men were men." His dad was a WW2 veteran and society told Bill that men were not supposed to be sensitive or emotional. From an early age though, Bill struggled with this and it wasn't until much later in life that he realized he actually had a highly sensitive personality trait (which about 20% of the entire population--men and women-- also have). He eventually became a psychology major and an author who spent a lot of time working to understand more about this trait.

He has since published two books called, On Being a Sensitive Man, Success Strategies to Harness Your High Sensing Nature and, Confessions of a Sensitive Man, An Unconventional Defense of Sensitive Men. And as Bill puts it, "I wrote these books for every man or boy that was told that they are too sensitive or too emotional; that they aren’t man enough or masculine enough simply because they feel more, sense more, and experience a broader range of emotions."

This made for a really interesting and dynamic discussion. Bill is really knowledgable on the topic so he was able to explain the scientific and biological aspects of highly sensitive people; but we also dove into the societal and philosophical implications of it as well. Is high sensitivity an adaptive or maladaptive trait? Do we think older generations of men can ever be comfortable fully embracing this trait? If more men tapped into their high sensitivity would we have been able to defeat the evil in the world like we faced in WW2? 

Some of these questions were intentionally provocative, in the spirit of the show, to really try to explore the implications of being highly sensitive. And Bill was great at providing really thoughtful and candid responses to all of them. In the end, I think Bill is right that we need to embrace who we truly are, whether that be highly sensitive or not. That is obviously much easier said than done, but hopefully as we continue to evolve as humans it becomes much more prominent.

"Humans are not a 'thing', we are a process." This quote, which is representative of this conversation with Tara, was really fascinating for me. On the one hand Tara very much sees the world the way I do. She is intellectually curious, she is constantly searching for answers and ways to grow, she is very cautious about becoming too dogmatic, she is often in her own head spinning out thinking about philosophical topics, etc. But on the other hand she has to come to a very different approach in life. Unlike me, who has continued to lean into the search for answers because I believe it is the only way, she has decided to keep searching but not actually care at all about finding the answers.

We talked about it on the show, but to me that approach almost seems insane. Why would you ever look for something if you don't actually care about finding it? Tara was super insightful though in explaining how this approach works for her. She used the analogy that she is "intellectually dating" with different philosophical approaches to life. She recognizes life is far too complex to ever land on one answer, but she still does see value in being out there playing the field to try to glean insights from the various thinkers of the past. Then she uses those insights in a very fluid and agile way to move through life and apply the right insight at the right time (or at least she is trying to).

As a bit of a background, Tara was someone who has had the gift (or maybe curse) of being extremely self aware from a young age. That resulted in her having a hostile relationship with her own mind and ultimately a hostile relationship with life. Eventually that led to some pretty severe alcoholism, which she battled for over 15 years. In many ways she used alcoholism as her tool to detach from the struggles of searching for answers in life. Now she has found her value of "not being too attached to any one value" as a much healthier tool to utilize. This was a super insightful conversation and I really appreciate Tara for being so thoughtful, open, and reflective.

My guest Dan is an author who recently wrote a book (A Heartbeat in Danger) discussing the difficult and complicated journey of a young girl contemplating having an abortion. Given that and Dan's value of "faith in Jesus" many people might think "great another person spewing out reasons why we should all go to church and ban abortions." I'd be lying if I didn't say I thought that might be the case too. But I can't tell you how far off that would be from reality. I mean obviously Dan does have a deep faith and belief in Jesus and the teachings of God so we did discuss that, but there were two aspects of Dan's faith I found super insightful and beautiful.

The first is that Dan's faith isn't blind faith. He discussed how he grew up in the church and for many years it was pushed on him without a choice. However as he got older and had certain life experiences, his faith was severely tested. He truly questioned the role of religion, God, and faith and in the end made a very conscious choice to have a relationship with Jesus/God. Dan also talked about how the "rules" of formalized religion can be detrimental and can cause us to forget about the essence of what Jesus was actually trying to teach us.

The second aspect of Dan's faith that I loved relates directly to that last sentence. Dan never wants to preach to anyone or judge anyone for their beliefs, decisions, or actions. It does not mean he always agrees with them, but he understands (much like the God he believes in) it is never our role to judge or criticize others. Faith has taught him that life is about embracing the complexity of the world we live in and choosing to try to love and help our fellow man. 

If Dan expects God to love him despite all of his flaws then he needs to love others despite theirs as well. I recognize that can sound like bullshit or nice words that don't really have any meaning or substance. But as you listen to this discussion with Dan, I think you will realize that he has worked very hard throughout his life to make those words real and I appreciate him for that.

Anna is a subconscious mind communications and re-coding specialist and the CEO of Quantum Mind Academy. She is also the author of an international bestseller: Escape Your Matrix: How to Master the Game of Life. Anna states that in five steps, she teaches people how the subconscious mind works and why you need to understand and recode it.

I often talk about philosophy on this show, but my first love in trying to understand human nature was actually psychology. I am a firm believer that the subconscious is a fascinating, complicated, and potentially dangerous part of our minds. So I was really excited to talk to Anna and dive into what the subconscious actually is, how it has evolved over the years, and what it means to "recode" it. Anna explained how understanding and working to recode the mind is critical to achieve her most important value, "freedom of the mind." Without that we are somewhat blindly enslaved by "programming" that was set in our adolescence.

Of course I had to get into some of the more philosophical aspects of the subconscious mind too and we had some really interesting discussions around it. Some of this included topics like, is the subconscious trying to protect us or sabotage us and is it a gift or a curse that we have developed a conscious mind that can reflect on the pros/cons of the subconscious? Maybe the most interesting insight from the episode was when Anna explained that our minds are not "us", they are just like our hands or our eyes--they are just tools we use to interact with the world. 

We so often associate ourselves with our thoughts or at the least assume our minds are the most significant part of who we are. To think that it is no more significant than our hand is a really fascinating thought. It does beg the question though, if not our minds, then who is the true "us?" We will save that philosophical discussion for another episode though.

Nicole is a licensed Mental Health Counselor that helps people use ketogenic dietary therapy as a treatment for mental illness and neurological issues. She uses a variety of nutritional and functional methods of treatment in her work and provides evidence-based psychotherapy, which supplements the years she spent as a "traditional" counselor. In this context, "traditional" means a counselor who practices with a focus on behavioral, cognitive-behavioral, and dialectical-behavioral therapy, with medication as a major tool to help patients.

This ties to Nicole's value of integrity, because she believes there are too many pharmaceutical and food companies that aren't being honest with their customers. It is not that everyone involved is evil or deliberately trying to hurt others but, for various reason, the result has been a system that is more focused on profit than integrity. Perhaps the leaders of these companies actually think they are doing some good (providing drugs to improve mental/physical health, low cost food options for impoverished people, etc.) but have lost sight of the big picture and what really matters. 

This type of topic and line of discussion is ripe with assumptions, biases, and blind spots. We don't actually know what is going through the heads of the CEOs or doctors involved. Science very rarely has conclusive evidence, so even the various studies that seem to support these claims can be refuted with other studies that provide counter evidence. So Nicole and I factored all of that in and spent a good bit of the discussion trying to entertain the possibility that there was more to the story than we were aware of. 

What I really appreciated about Nicole's approach was that, even though it was evident she has a lot of passion and frustration around this topic, her goal wasn't to prove she was right or that nutrition is the answer to all of our problems. As she stated, she just wants people to be more informed about what they are putting in their body and what options they have for potential treatments.  

I am not there yet, I know that. I want to be able to have conversations with people, like my guest Frank, and actually get to the root of it. I want to be able to understand what makes people see the world so differently. I want to understand what makes one person think racism and the aftermath of slavery still loom large in our country, whereas another person thinks it is not much of an issue at all.

It is hard though. Maybe it shouldn't be so hard, but I find myself trying to walk the line of curiosity and confrontation. Both are necessary at times, but I still find myself hesitant to push too hard. Maybe it is a good thing, because the only way to make progress on problems like these is through understanding not confrontation. Or maybe it is a bad thing, because the conversation could be so much more powerful if I didn't hedge so much.

I appreciate Frank being on and sharing his views. Some people may not agree with them, some people may. I hope after listening though, if nothing else, there is a little more insight and understanding into his psyche and how he thinks. I also hope as I keep doing these shows, I find ways to have difficult conversations like this without shying away from the heart of the matter.

More complete bio from Frank below-

Frank Salvato is an experienced multi-media production specialist with a demonstrated history of working in the online print publication and communications industry both as a managing editor and a content creator. He is currently the primary writer and editor, as well as podcast host, at UndergroundUSA.com. The podcast is syndicated on iHeart Radio, Pandora, Audible, and anywhere podcasts are heard. He just released my new book, Nullification: The Case for Decentralizing the Federal Government, which reached number one on Amazon in the Political Leadership category in its first week. His writing has been recognized by the US House International Relations Committee and the Japan Center for Conflict Prevention. I served as an Associate Editor for The Washington Dispatch in the 2000s and as Publisher and Managing Editor of The New Media Journal.

Jahanzeb (JZ) is one of my favorite people in the world and this conversation reminded me why. We met as classmates at Harvard Business School, coming from very different backgrounds and perspectives, but we were connected by a love for knowledge, philosophy, and meaningful conversations about life. 

As way of quick background, JZ is from Pakistan and has spent much of his life trying to give back to his country. He has worked in the government, financials sector, entrepreneurship, given TedTalks, and many other things. These days he is focused on his start up, Hoopoe, an EdTech start up with a mission to teach millions of Pakistani children to speak English. As you will hear, JZ believes there is a huge need to teach this skill to better the lives of so many people, which ties directly to his value of "making a difference in the world that he can see." 

We spent much of the first half of the episode talking about that value, his vision for his company, and why he feels it is so important. I always love these discussions because I find it fascinating to hear people articulate their passions. There is so much to be learned in understanding how they identified their passion and what drives them to overcome all of the inevitable obstacles. It was great to also learn more about Pakistan specifically and the opportunities and challenges they face as a country.

The second half of the conversation was a a dream come true for someone like me who loves talking about big, messy, philosophical topics. JZ and I have had countless conversations like this over the years (usually over some hookah and delicious food), so we picked right up where we've previously left off. Much of this discussion centered around the idea of conviction, by that I mean how we can ever have conviction about anything if we don't know anything for certain. We went back and forth on the limits of the human mind, the role emotion/faith play, and if life actually has any meaning at all. I really hope you enjoy this discussion as much as I did.

Mike reminds me a little bit of the philosophers version of the "most interesting man in the world" (sorry if that old Dos Equis ad reference doesn't land). He has managed high-end restaurants, taught English, was the vice principal of a private language school, indexed books, published five novels, played in a professional rock band, visited all fifty states and more than 30 countries-- among many many other things. I was excited to talk to Mike because it is one thing to study or talk about philosophy, it is another thing to actually live it in its pure form. Mike is a philosopher through and through.

That became apparent very quickly in our conversation as he explained his value of integrity, which he defined as acting in accordance with your own standards. Mike believes most, if not all, of the problems we have in the world today are because most people either 1. don't define what their standards for living are, 2. don't act consistently in accordance with them, or 3. don't do both of those two things. That thesis opens the door to so many fascinating discussions, and Mike and I tried to get into all of them. We talked about how you figure out your standards, why it is so hard to act in accordance with them, what happens when your standards conflict with others, if the "golden rule" actually works, and lots more.

In short I think I may have found a new best friend. Mike has spent much of his time on earth searching for more understanding of himself and the world we live in. He thinks and writes about topics like murder, suicide, love, astrology, drugs, and the environment; not because they are trendy or lucrative, but because he is genuinely curious about them. This was one of the most intellectually and philosophically enjoyable conversations I've had in a while; and hopefully through all the philosophical ramblings and bromance, you guys find some insightful nuggets that might help you have a better day today than you had yesterday.

Rachel started the show with a really interesting value; "understanding we are all spirits having a human experience." This was interesting because I have heard phrases like this before, but rarely do we get to dig into what it means and its implications. Given Rachel's background as an author ("Celebrating Solitude: How to Develop and Honor Your Highest Self"), holistic psychotherapist, and transformational life coach she brought a lot of in depth thinking on the topic. She was more than game to work through my logical approach to trying to understand a really spiritual topic.

The entire conversation was insightful as we worked through the implications of her value, but maybe the biggest take away was Rachel's view that we are all going through a human experience to learn as much as possible about existence and the universe, so that we could use our collective knowledge to get to a better world. There is so much to unpack in that, not least of which is, what is the "better" world we are working towards and how do we know that is actually our intended purpose? Interestingly, as you start to press on it, it starts to sound a lot like organized religion. We can't ever fully understand it, but there is a plan, and we should have faith that it will work out.

All of this made for a fascinating discussion where we explored the reason for human suffering, the limitations of formalized religions, the apparent randomness of the universe, as well as more practical issues--like what does all of this mean for our every day lives? It is one thing to believe that we are spirits working towards an improved collective consciousness, but what does that mean for you on a random Monday morning in July? Rachel's ability to discuss big picture philosophical topics but also their every day implications made her a really great guest to have on.

Sam just finished his junior year of high school but has already dedicated a lot of his time to politics. He is the host of a conservative podcast, Northeast Director for High School Republican National Federation, and has worked on 7 political campaigns (Presidential, US Senate, State Senate, Governor x2, Board of Supervisors, Sheriff). What I found super impressive and interesting about Sam is that the reason he got into politics was that at a young age he noticed a lot of people liked to complain about the country and the political issues we faced but weren't doing much about it. So rather than join in on the complaining, he decided to get involved and try to do something to make things better. It speaks directly to his value of passion and dedication for what you believe in.

Many people, myself included at times, judge younger kids for getting involved in politics. The thought being they don't have enough perspective or aren't qualified to have an opinion. But I think there is a lot us older folk can learn from someone (at any age) who sees a problem and decides to take action to try to solve it. I was also really impressed by Sam's perspective. He is a conservative but he truly understands the importance of engaging in healthy dialogue with people who have different views. He believes in making his own decisions not just following party lines, even if that means some people in his own party might not like it.

We did spend some time towards the end of the conversation getting into some specific political issues too. We thought it would be good to try to model some of that healthy dialogue and explore topics like the Russia/Ukraine situation or gun control from different perspectives. I think it is obviously true that younger people can see the world in a simplified way (but to be fair so can a lot of adults), but I was really encouraged and impressed by Sam's willingness to listen to other perspectives and ultimately try to let the truth "win out" vs. a personal agenda or political beliefs. I really hope he keeps this approach as he continues his career in politics, as it is much needed.

Elizabeth is a Professor of Sociology and Chair of the Department of Sociology, Anthropology, and Social Work at Nassau Community College. She is also Senior Strategist for Woodhull Freedom Foundation, the nation’s only human rights organization working full time to protect sexual freedom as a fundamental human right. This experience and background made for a really interesting discussion, as Elizabeth had a ton of knowledge about the history of humanity and how we interact from a sociological perspective.

The value she brought to the discussion was "openness", as in openness to consider other perspectives, explore things we don't understand, and generally just be curious about life. Elizabeth's belief is that there is a very direct and logical correlation between openness and well-being. Maybe the most interesting case study of this is Elizabeth's own story (covered in her recent book: Bound: A Daughter, a Domme, and an End-of-Life Story) of how being open to explore her own mother's sexuality allowed her to help significantly improve her mother's quality of life. 

We also spent some time delving into how openness plays out with the social issues we face today. We touched on topics like teaching kids about sexuality, religious freedom, and the impact of capitalism on society. One of the most interesting insights across all of these topics was the advantage "openness" provides. If the goal is to get to the truth then logically openness gives you the best chance to get there. Being open and curious gives you the chance to find the best solution, whereas closed-mindedness becomes extremely limiting. It doesn't mean your perspective or viewpoint is wrong, it just means you wouldn't know if it was because you've never actually been open to challenging it. 

I really enjoyed this conversation and think it touched on some fundamental aspects of human nature. Being open to other people's views, no matter what they may be, is hard for all of us--but that doesn't mean we stop trying. We have to challenge ourselves to care more about the truth than our personal agenda or ego.

Doug is focused on serving fellow man and to do that he has focused on a concept known as the "Tall Poppy Syndrome." Doug wrote a book on the topic and has been studying it for over 10 years. Through that work he believes the "Tall Poppy Syndrome" is a human condition that has been present since the beginning of time and it explains why humans always seek fairness and justify our actions by cutting others down (analogy being, when someone looks at a field of poppy plants, their inclination is to cut the highest ones so that they can all be even).

A concept like this is ripe with philosophical and societal questions, which Doug and I dove into throughout the show. Doug's main thesis was around the ideas that 1. we should celebrate tall poppies as they are necessary to make society thrive and 2. the approach of cutting down or "cancelling" tall poppies is counter productive and wrong. As we discussed though, there are numerous counterpoints to consider to that view; what if the playing field isn't even for all poppies to grow, what if a tall poppy exploited smaller poppies to get to their level, what if once a tall poppy reached their level they abused their power, etc. 

What became clear to me in this discussion is that there is a lot of validity to this concept and likely it explains a good bit of the cancel culture we see today. But, we have to be very careful to not apply the concept in an overly simplistic way. It would seem wrong to say any time you cut a tall poppy it is a bad thing, just like it would seem wrong to say any time a poppy grows too tall it should be cut. What I appreciated about Doug's thoughts as we probed all of this, is that he acknowledged the most important take-away from his work is that people (all people--the cutter, the cuttee, and anyone observing) need to be more thoughtful and self reflective before they jump to conclusions. Human nature seems to push us to assume our assessments are accurate, leading us to rash actions. Doug, myself, and hopefully those listening all need to be better at challenging our own assessments in search of a greater good.

Honestly, I have been sitting on this episode for a while. I even went back to my guest, Will, and did a part 2 recording because I wasn't sure how I felt about the first session we did. I'm not sure I can completely explain why I had reservations, but for some reason I did. I decided to err on the side of transparency and "showing my work" though, rather than editing or not sharing. 

To step back for a minute, Will is a friend of mine who I've know for over 25 years. We grew up together and have been close for a long time. Will is one of those friends who always brings the energy and when he is around you know it is going to be a good time. He is genuine, full of passion, and has a really unique way about him-- his nickname in high school (and beyond) was "Da Machine." What is interesting about that is I think that is part of the reason I didn't feel great about the first recording. I realized that I fall into a certain groove when I interact with Will. I don't always take him as seriously as I should, I don't expect to get into deep conversations, and I think I let that impact the episode.

We talked about this a bunch in the second part of the show, but it was a really interesting reminder for me. As thoughtful and reflective as I think I am, I still have some blind spots. I still have work to do. You never know where biases might pop up. What it made me realize though is how closed minded we can be about wisdom. We get this idea that wisdom should look, or sound, or be presented in a certain way. If it doesn't fit the mold of how we traditionally think about it, then we often dismiss it. Will helped remind me of that because throughout both sessions his approach to life consistently impressed me. He lives in the moment, he speaks from his heart, he tries not to overthink things, he understands there is a time to put in work and there is a time to enjoy yourself, etc.

I appreciate Will a ton for being on the show and allowing me to try to work through my shit to get to a good, authentic discussion. I'm not sure I hit it completely, but I did learn a lot about myself and about life, so a big thanks to him for that.

Mark is an attorney, social justice advocate, award-winning author of the Zachary Blake Legal Thriller Series, and co-host of the "Justice Counts" podcast. All of this centers around his passion for "social justice, safety, and fairness." Mark was also one of the first attorneys to sue the Catholic Church over sexual abuse by clergy, an experience that inspired his first book. His hope is that his books, which deal with an array of social issues (e.g., police shootings, immigration, etc.) through the lens of the legal system, will help provide a fair view of the issues we face today and drive people towards change.

What I loved about this conversation was that we were able to discuss a number of social issues we face from a deeply philosophical perspective. We tried to explore the aspects of human nature that give rise to these issues and also make them extremely complicated to solve. For example we discussed if racism is unique to white people or a general human tendency or if those who support gun control by definition have a moral high ground? Any time I get to explore topics like this and try to learn how we can be better as a society, I feel like there is something good in that. And Mark's willingness to look at these issues from all perspectives allowed for a really rich conversation.

This actually led us to an important, yet simple insight. When we think about topics like these, it is important for us to not lose sight of the point. The point being to remember the humanity in it all. Sure, we should discuss and debate if more gun control is required, or if police need to be better trained against racism to stop black men from dying, or if stricter immigration laws are a good idea. It's even OK to get passionate if you feel like someone is seeing it wrong. But remember what that passion should be rooted in-- a desire to make the world a better place. A desire to help those in need and minimize unnecessary suffering-- not just to win or prove we were "right." As Mark said, that might sound idealistic-- and if so, good. We should strive for the highest ideals. 

Gwendolyn is a PhD and professor of Philosophy at Cal Poly Pomona, an author (Tips from The Professor A Guide to College Success), and has a super successful podcast, Good is in the Details, which directly ties to her commitment to the art of dialogue and passion for discovering ideas. Gwendolyn's knowledge of philosophy and her ability to use it to try and improve her life made her a really interesting guest. She was able to straddle the line between the academic and the practical, in a way that allowed us to explore a lot of interesting topics.

This was evident from the start when Gwendolyn spoke about how her value system changed after she had a daughter a bit later in life. Previously life was about work, productivity, and accomplishments. After having her daughter, it was not that she no longer cared about those things, it was just that how she viewed and measured them changed. As she put it her definition of a "good day" was different now. We used this as a jumping off point to explore some of the more interesting and complex questions in philosophy. 

Perhaps the central thread of the discussion revolved around Aristotle's concept of "eudaimonia." Most people interpret this concept to mean that life is ultimately about finding happiness. But as Gwendolyn explained, it is actually more nuanced than that. Eudaimonia is "rational activity for the soul, for its own sake." There are certainly aspects of happiness in it, but it is also about satisfaction, growth, well-being, and living in alignment with your purpose. As I said, it is a complex topic, but so is philosophy and life for that matter. Many people are frustrated by that. They want simple answers and believe it is a failure of philosophy to not provide them. I understand that view, but I think as Gwendolyn articulated: philosophy's goal is to try to make sense of life, so it's output has to be as complex and subjective as life itself.

"Grace is giving people permission to be human...and it provides people the opportunity to have dignity, regardless of their circumstances." Insights like these make all the time I spend doing this podcast worthwhile. The opportunity to take a concept like "grace", that we all hear all the time, and to force ourselves to reflect on what it actually means. To challenge ourselves to understand why it is so important but also why it is so hard to practice. That is what it is all about for me.

Decoteau, a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago and founding member of Derute Consulting Cooperative (where he focuses on  how to create and sustain organizations that ensure Black people’s self-determined well-being), had such an interesting and thoughtful perspective on the topic. Through the discussion we started to uncover that grace is a bit of a "numbers game." Often the challenge people have exhibiting grace is that it is too scary. They are worried that they might get burned or end up worse off. And the truth is, they very well might. But what Decoteau explained is from a long-term, portfolio view, we are net better off as a society if we exhibit more grace. So the challenge becomes how do we change the conditions and systems that exist today to allow people to realize the long-term advantages of grace?

As we discussed across multiple topics, housing insecurity, racism, reconstruction, the prison system; human nature seems to lean away from grace. We are engrained with a coding that pushes us towards safety and security. So in many ways it might be unrealistic to expect individuals at scale to evolve to embrace a mindset of grace. Philosophically that becomes a really interesting dynamic, because it suggests we might need to push people towards grace, even if they don't want it. "We", who believe grace is the answer, need to find ways to influence society to buy into it. But anytime we "push" people towards something we believe is "right", it creates an opportunity for exploitation and abuse of power. I loved the opportunity to get to explore these types of topic with Decoteau and hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did.

Sean, at one time in his life, was angry, overweight, drinking too much, and not the person he wanted to be in life. There were various reasons for these issues, but if you had to sum them up, it was that he never really believed he was capable of anything different. Sean was raised a certain way and started to form certain beliefs/habits that seemed impossible to break.

This isn't some magical story of transformation, where someone went on a quest to find themselves (not there is anything wrong with that). There was no spiritual awakening or near death experience that prompted the change. Sean was just a person, who eventually realized life could be better than what it was. He realized he could be a better person, husband, and dad than he had been. And through thoughtfulness, dedication, and hard work he turned his life around.

Maybe the most fascinating part of this discussion, which I am not sure we came to a complete conclusion on, was why some people like Sean never figure out how to change/improve? There are so many of us that can resonate with parts of his story, but for some reason some of us never find a way out.

More complete bio from Sean here-

Sean Robinson is a thirty-seven year old Author, Speaker and Motivator who focuses on self-improvement, mindset shifting and habit forming. He works in the construction industry, is a volunteer firefighter. and lives with his wife & three children in Ontario, Canada. Going Dry: My Path to Overcoming Habitual Drinking is his first book.

Elayna is a bestselling author, international speaker, and entrepreneur (best known for her award-winning blog thePositiveMOM.com). Those accomplishments are all impressive but they don't begin to do justice in conveying the insights she has about life, pain, and love. Elayna calls herself a "student of pain" because of all the trauma she has been through (e.g., being raised in a slum in Dominican Republic, being kidnapped and brutally assaulted, and spending 8 days in a coma; among other things). Many people might say that all of that trauma made her stronger and turned her into the person she is today. But as Elayna explains it, the trauma did not make her stronger, her ability to learn from and overcome that trauma made her stronger. 

It is a seemingly subtle distinction but I find it super profound, which is on theme for much of this conversation. Elayna picked ''being a student" as her most important value because she believes if you approach life with a learning mindset no situation can be too big to overcome. Sometimes you can figure it out on your own, sometimes you might need help, but either way it allows you to continue searching for solutions. She is clearly a testament to this given her lived experiences.

One of the biggest take-aways I had was a simple question Elayna asks her kids to gauge how she is doing as a mom; "do you feel loved?" As we know there is no blue print or handbook that gives you all the answers in life, so the way Elayna deals with that is by focusing on what matters most to her, love. If her kids feel loved it doesn't mean she is doing everything right but it does mean she's giving them the most important thing she can--and that is enough. Interestingly as we worked through the discussion we realized that question can be asked to ourselves as well. When we are unsure if we are making the right decisions, or doing enough, or worth anything; we can ask ourselves "do I feel loved?" And if the answer is yes, something must be going right in our life.

Dr. Lycka was a highly successful cosmetic dermatologist when he received a life changing diagnosis of ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and thought his life was over. Fortunately, Dr. Lycka kept searching for more answers and eventually realized he was misdiagnosed. Once he got a second chance on life, he started to view things from a very different perspective. He began to simplify his life and focus on the things that really mattered to him (e.g., being of service to others). This has all led to a successful career as an author, podcast/radio host, and speaker; all geared around providing guidance on how to live a "fantastic life."

The thread throughout the conversation with Dr. Lycka was around better understanding that simple, yet impactful approach to life. I tend to view life as extremely complex and nuanced, making simple approaches to life good in theory but difficult to actually execute. I appreciated Dr. Lycka's thoughtful responses to these questions because I think for many people like me, we desperately want a simple answer, but we just haven't found one that works yet. One of the concepts that came up was the Japanese "ikigai", which provides a very practical framework for finding "your reason for being."

I think if I had to net out Dr. Lycka's advice it says that we need to: 1. figure out what matters to us (our ikigai), 2. determine our non-negotiables in trying to achieve it, and 3. take on more risk and continuously work towards it (although he articulates it much better in his book and his "13 pearls of wisdom"). As I read those words I know there is a lot of wisdom and good advice in there, but I think as Dr. Lycka would acknowledge, it can be a long, difficult journey to get to a place where you are able to act on it. Or maybe it can be a really simple process if we follow the right steps. That is the beauty of this show and of life; we get to explore all the different perspectives on getting to our version of a "fantastic life."

Hillary is a cultural anthropologist, author, teacher and mixed-media storyteller with a focus on theater anthropology and cross-cultural perspectives on human consciousness. She has an undergraduate degree in journalism, an MA in philosophy of mind, and a PhD in existential psychology. That background is a jackpot if you are interested in having a conversation about human nature and values. Hillary describes her work as exploring how we human beings make meaning of this wonderful, terrible, ecstatic, startling, and often absurd world in which we live. Game on.

Hillary started with a really interesting and important value, "pulling back the blinders." The reason for that value is that she wants to understand and engage with the world in the purest possible way. So to do that she needs to expand her perspective to try to see the world for what it really is, not just the limited view we have as an individual. It is funny, in conversations like this I almost have to be careful because we have such similar perspectives/values. I want to make sure we don't group think into believing we have all the answers or this is the only way to view life. Luckily, Hillary had a really good perspective and was super humble/open minded--no surprise given her value.

There was so much I enjoyed about this discussion, but two little nuggets that stood out were: 1. the idea of tying to view the world from a different "window." We all have baggage, biases, and perspectives that constructs the window we see the world from. Hillary wants to find opportunities where ever she can to try to peak out of different people's windows to get a more complete view of the world. And 2. when I asked Hillary how she made sense of the universe she said she views it like jazz music. By that she meant it is free flowing and not controlled in any rigid way, but at the same time there is a unifying rhythm that keeps it all connected. Really great discussion and really thought provoking all around.