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Explore every episode of the podcast What's the Point.

Dive into the complete episode list for What's the Point.. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.

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TitlePub. DateDuration
Episode 16: Tommy Mitchell05 Sep 202400:51:07

In this episode of What's the Point, hosted by Shantell Martin, we welcome Tommy Mitchell, a self-taught portrait artist. Tommy works and lives between Baltimore and Los Angeles with his studio space in Baltimore. His work consists of portraiture with an addition of illustration elements and his two main mediums are ballpoint pens and acrylic paint.


Growing up Tommy felt empowered as a kid by watching cartoons and reading comics. This led him to develop a love and obsession for drawing, which he continues to feel today, along with his love of basketball.


Listen to this week’s episode of What’s the Point with host Shantell Martin and guest Tommy Mitchell to learn more about Tommy’s passions, inspirations, goals, hurdles, and process as an artist.


Follow Tommy Mitchell on @tommymitche11

https://www.tommymitche11.com/

What's the Point


Episode 15: Lyndon Barois Sr.29 Aug 202401:09:38

Welcome Lyndon Barrois Sr, to this week’s episode of What’s the Point with Shantell Martin, where we explore the purpose behind creating and enjoying art! Lyndon is an animation director, filmmaker, and artist, who’s worked on The Matrix, The Thing, and Happy Feet, and is also known for his sculptural series, It’s a Wrapper. He’s been featured in major institutions all over the United States. 


Lyndon’s work, It’s a Wrapper, is unbelievably unique as he creates humanistic sculptures from chewing gum wrappers and brings them to life through stop-motion animation. In It’s a Wrapper Studios, Lyndon is known for sportraits, an animated depiction of athletic figures and events in the history of sports, made from gum wrappers.   


Lock into this week’s episode of What’s the Point to learn more about Lyndon’s upbringing and path to becoming an artist, the work he has accomplished, how he stays inspired, and more!


Follow Lyndon Barrois Sr on @itsawrapper

https://itsawrapper.com/

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Episode 6: Anna Wingfield27 Jun 202401:05:47

Introducing Anna Wingfield, “What’s the Point” Podcast’s sixth guest. Born and raised in Seattle, she works in printmaking, creating monotypes. In this episode, we hear about how Anna became interested in art and her outdoorsy upbringing, which led her to be intrigued by an intense and repetitive creative process. Wingfield graduated from Goucher College and studied fine art at Goldsmiths University of London and The Art Students League in New York. 

Anna’s monotypes consist of a long process of steps involving copper plates, ink, ink wiping, pulling, scraping, building layers, combining, and more. Her work creates layers and layers of ink that builds memory within her final piece. Enjoy this week’s episode of What’s the Point, where Shantell Martin and Anna Wingfield converse about how Wingfield found her passion for printmaking, the obstacles she overcame, and the growth she’s experienced from the changes in life. 


Follow Anna Wingfield at: @awingding  

www.annarwingfield.com


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Episode 5: Shyama Golden20 Jun 202401:00:51

“What’s the Point” conducts episode five as Shantell Martin sits down with artist Shyama Golden, a Sri Lankan-American painter with a background in design. Born and raised in Texas, Shyama went on to receive her BFA at Texas Tech University in 2004. Over her time as an artist, her work has spanned from graphic design to illustration to painting, with a strong desire to explore more in between. 

Shyama and Shantell discuss the challenge of finding your identity and the relationship between how people perceive you and the way you, as humans, want to be perceived. She goes into further detail about her life’s artistic journey and the desire for change after working to promote companies and doing illustrator jobs. In this episode, she dives into the struggles and rewards of being a painter along with her process when creating art. Join Shantell Martin and Shyama Golden as they discuss culture, change in life paths, identity, and commitment to an artistic process in this episode of What’s the Point. 


Follow Shyama Golden at: @shyamagolden  

www.shyamagolden.com


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Content Warning: Graphic, sensitive, and/or mature content is discussed at the following times 00:18:32 - 00:20:40 Listener discretion is advised.

Episode 4: Dos Mas13 Jun 202401:03:56

In the fourth episode of "What’s the Point," we follow artist Dos Mas on his journey to discover and nurture his lifelong passion for art. Joined by Shantell Martin, Dos Mas explores the intricacies of self-improvement, the relentless pursuit of excellence, and his profound connection to art and creation. His artistic expression, characterized by its interplay of lines, movements, and energies, initially favoured monochromatic palettes before embracing the spectrum of colour.
Beyond mere aesthetics, Dos Mas' work serves as a testament to resilience and personal growth, as he strives to inspire and uplift others through his artistry and life experiences. In this compelling episode of What's the Point, join Shantell Martin and Dos Mas as they navigate the complexities of life's challenges and their unwavering dedication to the transformative power of creativity.
Follow Dos Mas at: @dosmasstudios
www.dosmasstudios.com


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Content Warning: The following timestamps discuss crime and criminal activity, graphic, sensitive, and/or mature content.

00:15:10 - 00:17:37

00:38:35 - 00:39:40

00:44:03 - 00:46:15

00:47:43 - 00:47:54

Listener discretion is advised.


Episose 3: Forrest Kirk06 Jun 202401:00:50

Welcome to the third episode of “What’s the Point,” where Shantell Martin meets with artist Forrest Kirk to discuss his experience entering the world of the arts and the driving force behind his desire to create. As a kid, Forrest found his first creative outlets in drawing, skateboarding, and practicing graffiti. Since then, Forrest has mastered his skills in oil painting at an atelier in Paris and continues to expand his medium and approach to art. In this episode, we learn about Forrest’s upbringing, how he became intrigued by art, the work he creates, his future goals, and why he decided to be an artist. Join Shantell Martin and Forrest Kirk as they contemplate the purpose of art and the differing paths that life takes us on in this episode of What’s the Point. Follow Forrest Kirk at: @forrestkirk

www.artbyforrest.com


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Episode 2: Noah Humes30 May 202400:58:42

In the second episode of What's the Point, Shantell Martin continues her exploration of artistic purpose with guest Noah Humes, a freelance visual artist from Mid City, Los Angeles, CA. Together, they delve into the heart of creative expression, navigating the intricacies of personal narrative, societal commentary, and the timeless pursuit of meaning in a changing world. 


Noah Humes, a graduate of Otis College of Art and Design with a BFA in Communication Arts, brings a rich tapestry of experiences to his work as a visual artist. Blending storytelling with aesthetics, Noah's creations serve as a conduit for introspection, inviting viewers to engage with the complexities of his unique perspective. Join us for this episode with Shantell Martin and Noah Humes as they delve into the realms of creativity, identity, and the reality of life as an artist on this episode of What's the Point. 


Follow Noah Humes at: @noahhumes
www.noahhumes.com


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Episode 1: Victoria Cassinova30 May 202401:07:36

Welcome to the inaugural episode of “What's the Point.” A podcast where we embark on the journey to uncover the profound meaning behind artistic expression. In this debut episode, we spotlight Los Angeles-based visual artist Victoria Cassinova. From her captivating murals to her thought-provoking illustrations, Cassinova's work transcends boundaries, inviting viewers to ponder the more profound significance of creativity in our lives. 

Through candid conversation and introspective reflection, we delve into Cassinova's artistic process, her inspirations, her personal story, and the driving forces behind her desire to create art. Join Shantell Martin and Victoria on this episode as they explore creativity, identity, and the enduring quest to uncover what the Point of it all is. 

Follow Victoria Cassinova at: @vcassinova

www.vcassinova.com


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Content Warning: This episode contains mature themes and discussions involving accidents, trauma, grief, death and PTSD that may not be suitable for all audiences. The following timestamps indicate where sensitive content occurs.

00:16:01 - 00:17:57

00:19:20 - 00:21:06

00:46:19 - 00:52:45

Listener discretion is advised.


Episode 14: Chris Houghton22 Aug 202401:23:15

In this week's episode of What’s the Point, we are lucky enough to uncover the fate of Shantell Martin and Chris Houghton, the co-creator of the Disney Channel Show, Big City Greens, after they met on a flight to LA. Houghton is a storyboard artist, animator, voice actor, writer, producer, and director. He co-created the Disney Channel Show, Big City Greens, with his brother Shane Houghton, and he also voiced the series' main character, Cricket Green. Chris worked in animation at Nickelodeon as a storyboard artist on Fanboy & Chum Chum and Harvey Beaks. He also worked at Disney on huge shows such as Wander Over Yonder, Gravity Falls, and the episode “Clogged” of Mickey Mouse. He and his brother are working on Season 5 of Big City Greens, as it just got greenlighted to continue another season. Big City Greens The Movie: Spacecation was released on June 6, 2024.


Tune into a unique episode of What’s the Point as Shantell and Chris discuss Chris’s upbringing in a small town in the middle of nowhere, his upbringing, the family dynamics within his household, his inspiration, and how he got to where he is today. 

Follow Chris Houghton on @chrischoughton

What's the Point


Episode 13: Ozzie Juarez15 Aug 202401:23:28

Welcome to this week’s episode of What’s the Point with your host, Shantell Martin, and the featured artist of the week, Ozzie Juarez. Ozzie’s work can be described as bold, beautiful, detailed, self-reflectional, uplifting, and informative. His pieces take moments from murals, pre-existing artifacts, landmarks, and more, but are then molded into his style as he adds twists, designs, cartoons, comic books, fashion, and more. Within his art are parts of himself, his native background, indigenous patterns, and things that inspire him. With his work, he strives to find a calmness and sweet spot between maximalism and minimalism.

Juarez’s art discovery story is unique and special as he had worked as a businessman from a young boy with his father at Swap Meets, a special cultural tradition further discussed in today’s episode, and had his first ever art class at age 21. His artwork is powerful and much of his passion simultaneously works to give back to his community and those less fortunate.

Enjoy a great conversation with artists Shantell Martin and Ozzie Juarez in today’s episode of What’s the Point.

Follow Ozzie Juarez on @ozziejuarez

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Episode 12: Jen Stark08 Aug 202401:07:14

Join us in listening to What’s the Point with Shantell Martin and the color queen, Jen Stark. Jen Stark is a Miami-born, Los Angeles-based artist known for her bright psychedelic designs inspired by the natural world. Much of her work alludes to optical illusions and the materials she uses include wood, paint, paper, and metal. Stark’s love of colors blossomed from her interest in nature and all the colors we see in everyday life. She has been drawing since two years old and her grandpa taught her how to watercolor from a very young age. Her inspiration grew from her grandpa who would draw and paint scenes in Miami.


Learn more about Jen Stark and her adventures growing up, how she creates art, the collaborations and future projects she has in store, and her purpose in making art in this week’s episode of What’s the Point with Shantell Martin.


Follow Jen Stark on @jenstark

https://www.jenstark.com/

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What’s the Point is recorded at Spotify Studios, Los Angeles. Theme music, engineering, and editing are completed by Grant Peters. Research and pre-show preparation are done by Vern Molidor and Joyce Adams. Our website is designed by EAT.Studio. The What’s the Point logotype is designed by Alexis Conners.

Episode 11: Maysha Mohamedi01 Aug 202401:05:43

Join us for What’s the Point as we welcome Maysha Mohamedi to sit down with Shantell Martin to discuss her journey as an artist. Maysha is a Los Angeles-based fine artist, whose vibrant work largely pulls from her cultural experiences, everyday experiences, and personal history. Her work can be described as large, colorful abstract paintings with abundant primary colors, large shapes, and intersecting tiny lines. She found her desire for art at a young age when her mom held casual art classes in their kitchen and she had particular ideas of how she wanted her work to look at a young age. Maysha received a Bachelor of Science in 2002 from the University of California, San Diego, where she studied cognitive science, specializing in neuroscience, and she earned a Master of Fine Arts in painting from the California College of Arts in San Francisco in 2011. Join Shantell Martin and Maysha Mohamedi in this week’s episode of What’s the Point as they freely discuss their paths in life and how Maysha found the confidence and genuineness in her style, allowing her to pursue being an artist.


Check out Maysha Mohamedi’s work on instagram @pacegallery and use hashtag #mayshamohamedi

Check out Maysha Mohamedi’s work on Pace Gallery’s website:https://www.pacegallery.com/artists/maysha-mohamedi/

Check out Maysha Mohamedi’s upcoming show in Tokyo: https://www.pacegallery.com/pace-tokyo/


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Episode 10: Ruben Ochoa25 Jul 202401:10:04

Follow along in this week’s episode of “What’s the Point” as Shantell Martin and Ruben Ochoa dive into an emotional episode discussing Ruben’s loved ones, exciting adventures in his artistic journey, how he strives to give back, and more. Ochoa is a passionate Mexican-American artist, determined to share his inner voice on inequities, labour, brown labour, and divisible labour.

Ruben focuses on interdisciplinary art. He went to school pursuing illustration, got his BFA in painting, finished school and began large-scale sculpture, and has done everything in between. In this episode, we hear about Ochoa’s first memory of art, support from family and teachers, his transformative thinking, which led a tortilla business into an innovative and inspirational mobile art gallery van, and much more. Listen up for an episode with Shantell Martin and Ruben Ochoa that you don’t want to miss in this week’s episode of What’s the Point. 


Follow Ruben Ochoa at: @rrrubenochoa 


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Listener discretion is advised for this episode.

Episode 9: Hebru Brantley18 Jul 202401:24:16

Welcome to the ninth episode of What's the Point! Today, our guest is Hebru Brantley, an artist passionate about numerous mediums, including painting and sculpting, with an emphasis on bright, narrative-based work. In this insightful and heartwarming episode, Shantell and Hebru uncover Hebru's upbringing in Chicago and how he became enamored with art and the murals he saw growing up. Using art as an escape in his childhood, Hebru has turned it into a lifestyle and career, overcoming various obstacles along the way. 

Hebru’s work explores themes of heroism, identity, race, and experience. He is a huge fan of iconography and enjoys the power of different iterations of his creations. Follow along with Shantell Martin and Hebru Brantley for an entertaining and educational episode exploring race, growth, perception, and newness in this week's episode of What's the Point. 


Follow Hebru Brantley at: @hebrubrantley  

www.hebrubrantley.com


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Episode 8: Samantha McCurdy11 Jul 202401:21:00

In the ninth episode of “What’s the Point, " we have Los Angeles-based artist Samantha McCurdy. Samantha, born and raised in Philadelphia, loved art from a young age. Her art primarily uses stretchable spandex as a morphable canvas, and she describes herself as a “shape maker.” Her work consists of square or rectangular frames with shapes built into them and a stretchy fabric-like material stretched over them.

McCurdy graduated from the Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore and has been in gallery exhibitions in Philadelphia, Dallas, Los Angeles, Paris, and New York City.

In this week’s episode of What’s the Point, you can follow along as Shantell Martin and Samantha McCurdy discuss how Samantha entered her art path, her experiences, and what making art means to her.


Follow Samantha McCurdy at: @iamsammccurdy

www.samanthamccurdy.com


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Episode 7: Robert Russell04 Jul 202401:00:27

Join us for the 7th episode of Shantell Martin's conversation series, What's the Point., where Shantell sits down with artist Robert Russell to discuss the difficulties and rewards in the life of an artist. Originally from Kansas City, Robert is a conceptual fine artist known for his acrylic interpretations of photographic images to reflect nature, memory, and iconography. In this episode, we uncover Robert’s path to artistic discovery, the hurdles he’s faced as an artist, and his purpose for painting and creating art. Follow Robert Russell at: ⁠⁠@robertrussellworks

www.robertrussell.net


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Episode 17: Rabi12 Sep 202401:13:40

Rabi is a visual artist based in Los Angeles, and he is known for his vibrant mural paintings. Rabi's journey into mural art traces back to his childhood days of graffiti. Despite facing challenges growing up, he found comfort in his mother's love, strong friendships, and his passion for skateboarding, which fueled his rebellious spirit and eventually led him to express himself through graffiti and later mural painting. In this episode, Rabi and Shantell dive into the struggles and uncertainties that come with being an artist, as well as the rollercoaster of life's highs and lows. They delve into Rabi's personal history, sharing experiences close to his heart that have shaped him into the confident and outgoing person he is today. Follow Rabi Towing at: ⁠@rabi__towing⁠ ⁠www.rabitowing.com⁠ ⁠whatsthepoint.show ⁠ Content Warning: Graphic, sensitive, and/or mature content is discussed throughout the episode. Listener discretion is advised. 

Episode 18: Estevan Oriol19 Sep 202401:25:28

Join us in listening as Estevan discusses his early life experiences, his journey into the art world, and the power of art itself. He recalls his childhood experiences travelling between San Diego and Los Angeles, his rebellious school days, and his early involvement in the music industry, while he emphasizes the importance of passion and hard work in achieving artistic success.


Estevan Oriol is a renowned photographer and filmmaker known for capturing the heart and soul of Los Angeles' lowrider and hip-hop cultures.


Follow Estevan Oriol at: @estevanoriol @estevanoriolshop

https://www.estevanoriol.com/


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Episode 20: Abel Marcias12 Dec 202401:00:20

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with Abel Macias to discuss the critical role of understanding commercial art in the contemporary art world, as well as Abel's multifaceted approach to creating art. They delve into Abel's artistic journey, exploring his early encounters with graffiti and illustration, the romanticism of artists, and his experience imparting his knowledge and passion to aspiring artists through teaching.

Episode 19: Harmonia Rosales05 Dec 202400:59:17

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with Harmonia Rosales to discuss the critical role of research in her artistic process and her visionary outlook on the future of her art. They delve into Harmonia's artistic journey, exploring her early encounters with fine art, the profound impact of her ancestry on her work, and the invaluable lessons she has learned throughout her career.

Episode 21: Charles Gaines19 Dec 202401:10:28

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with Charles Gaines to discuss the ways in which subjectivity vs. objectivity plays a role in the conception of art. The two artists explore Charles' childhood moving from the South to the North as a young boy, his unconventional path to becoming a painter, and the future of conceptual art. 


Upcoming Shows:

Charles Gaines
19 February – 24 May 2025
Hauser & Wirth West Hollywood
Gaines returns to his hometown of Los Angeles to present a new series of his signature Plexiglas works and watercolors at Hauser & Wirth West Hollywood. The exhibition coincides with the surveys ‘Charles Gaines: 1992 – 2023’ (30 October 2024 – 9 March 2025) and ‘Charles Gaines: Arizona Series’ (30 October 2024 – 20 July 2025) at the Phoenix Art Museum.

Episode 26: Terry Guy27 Feb 202501:01:39

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the mastermind behind the global phenomenon Secret Walls, Terry Guy. Together they discuss his life moving out to Riverside, his new venture in owning a coffee shop and how he started Secret Walls 20 years ago and grew it into the success it is today.

Episode 25: Leah King13 Feb 202501:01:01

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with artist and facilitator Leah King. The two artists delve into Leah’s roots in the Bay Area, her life on the East Coast, and being surrounded by poetry. Leah is currently pursuing an MFA at USC’s Roski School of Art and Design.

Episode 24: Ave Pildas30 Jan 202501:02:51

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with renowned photographer and designer, Ave Pildas to discuss his impressive career. Together, they explore Ave’s childhood in Ohio, his time studying architecture and design in Switzerland, and the significance of preserving a decades-long career through archiving.

Episode 23: Matt Gondek16 Jan 202500:54:16

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with Matt Gondek to discuss his experience growing up in the woods, his love for drawing and punk music, and his battle with success and addiction. Together, the two artists dive deeper to explore the evolution of Matt’s career, from the early days of designing and selling band tees, to his current acclaim as an artist.

Episode 22: Jade Catta-Preta09 Jan 202500:46:00

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with actress and comedian Jade Catta-Preta in an engaging conversation about her career. Listen as they discuss Jade's journey from moving to the United States in middle school to her decision to attend Emerson College, ultimately leading her to pursue her dreams on the screen and stage in Los Angeles.

Episode 27: Joseph Brandon Thomas13 Mar 202501:06:50

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with mixed media artist JosephBrandon Thomas. Together they discuss the origins of his name, what it was like to grow up in New Orleans, the many different jobs he previously held and how it led him into the art world.

Episode 28: Keith Mayerson27 Mar 202501:02:06

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with acclaimed artist Keith Mayerson. Together they discuss his upbringing in Colorado, his start as a cartoonist in New York, how America inspires his work and why he decided to get into teaching.

Episode 34: Laura Rule19 Jun 202500:48:27

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the incredibly creative Laura Rule. Together, they discuss moving to LA, her work making commercials, why she uses clay to sculpt, and the creative process behind her work.

Episode 33: Aja Monet05 Jun 202501:12:36

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the boundary-pushing poet and musician, Aja Monet. Together they discuss her first introduction to poetry, the freedom that comes from growing up in New York, what it takes to go on tour and the lessons that come with aging.

Episode 32: Terrell Tilford22 May 202501:03:15

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the award winning multi-hyphenate artist Terrell Tilford. Together they discuss how he got his start as an actor, why he founded Band of Vices and the importance of being a support system for fellow artists.

Episode 31: Allison Hueman08 May 202500:55:02

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the dynamic artist Allison Hueman. Together they discuss growing up in the Bay area, collaborating with others, creating her first immersive experience after the pandemic and working with brands that align with her values.

Episode 30: Cash Cooper24 Apr 202501:00:30

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the talented artist Cash Cooper. Together they discuss the history of his name, his time living in Singapore, how to be an artist in a money driven industry and why he loves working on a “heroic scale”.

Episode 29: Lucy McRae10 Apr 202501:04:58

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the multi-dispilenary artist Lucy McRae. Together they discuss her childhood taking ballet classes, moving from the UK to Australia, how rejections can lead to new opportunities, and the process that went into creating her short film.

In Case You Missed It: Season 2 Recap14 Aug 202500:57:16

Join artist Shantell Martin as she dives into the creative minds of artists from various backgrounds on her podcast, What's the Point. Each episode features a compelling conversation that explores their motivations, inspirations, and the deeper meaning behind their work. In case you missed Season 2 — or just want a refresher — we've compiled the highlights here just for you.


Order of appearance:

Abel Macias

Jade Catta-Preta

Terrell Tilford

Keith Mayerson

Alison Hueman

Calida Rawles

Greg Ito

Charles Gaines

Lucy McRae

Matt Gondek

Harmonia Rosales

Joseph-Brandon Thomas

Terry Guy

In Case You Missed It: Season 1 Recap31 Jul 202500:48:28

Join artist Shantell Martin as she dives into the creative minds of artists from various backgrounds on her podcast, What's the Point. Each episode features a compelling conversation that explores their motivations, inspirations, and the deeper meaning behind their work. In case you missed Season 1 — or just want a refresher — we've compiled the highlights here just for you.


Order of appearance:

Samantha McCurdy

Ozzie Juarez

Maysha Mohamedi

Estevan Oriol

Jen Stark

Chris Houghton

Shyama Golden

Forrest Kirk

Dos Mas

Victoria Cassinova

Hebru Brantley

Robert Russell

Rabi

Episode 36: Calida Rawles17 Jul 202501:06:55

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with figurative painter Calida Rawles. Together, they discuss the use of water in her paintings, the important role drawing played in her childhood, embracing happy accidents in her work, and the importance of writing.

Episode 35: Greg Ito03 Jul 202501:06:55

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with the amazing artist Greg Ito. Together they discuss being born and raised in LA, his grandparents being in the Japanese internment camps, not fitting in at school and the importance of community.

Episode 38: Jamel Robinson12 Feb 202601:08:19

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with multidisciplinary artist Jamel Robinson. Together, they trace his journey from growing up in Harlem to the expansive world of creative expression, exploring the disciplined pursuit of learning to play the piano and the vital importance of tuning into one’s inner compass.

Episode 37: Juan Miguel29 Jan 202600:51:48

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with multidisciplinary artist Juan Miguel Marin. Together, they explore the profound weight and rhythm behind one's own name, the grueling physicality required to bring large-scale work to life, and what it's like to jump into the unknown.


Episode 39: Gustavo Luz Sousa26 Feb 202600:47:56

Join Shantell Martin as she sits down with artist Gustavo Luz Sousa. Together, they discuss Gustavo’s journey from Brazil to the world of advertising, exploring how art served as a vital childhood outlet for him, the quiet potential of unfinished works in a studio, and so much more.

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