This week on Pathfinder, we are joined by Chris Morales, Partner at Point72 Ventures, for a discussion on venture capital’s role in shaping the space and defense technology landscape. 

In this episode, Chris provides a detailed overview of Point72 Ventures’ strategic approach to investing, drawing on his background as a former naval officer and his experience in venture capital. The conversation covers key trends and challenges facing the space and defense sectors, with a focus on how startups can navigate this evolving ecosystem.

In addition, we discuss:

• Point72 Ventures’ investment framework and focus on emerging technologies critical to national security
• The growth of the space economy, from the adoption of proliferated LEO architectures to in-space mobility innovations
• Evaluating companies across different stages of maturity
• The role of government programs and non-dilutive funding
• SpaceX’s impact on market dynamics and its broader implications for venture-backed companies
• Structural and financial barriers that space and defense startups face, and how investors can help address them

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:02 - Chris's Thanksgiving must-haves

02:15 - Point72 Ventures overview

05:35 - History with space

06:42 - Why did Point72 Ventures first get into space?

09:00 - Chris's thesis about the space industry

10:49 - Proliferated LEO

12:11 - Predictive work and investments

13:02 - At what stage in a company is Point72 Ventures looking to invest?

13:53 - How does space fit into the investment strategy?

15:51 - What happens when a portfolio company isn't hitting their milestones?

17:12 - The process

18:39 - How Point72 Ventures separates itself and what it provides beyond capital

20:31 - Public and private sides of the firm

21:13 - Market dynamics

24:05 - Is there enough government funding for startups, and are they winning enough contracts?

27:29 - Does SpaceX's valuation make sense?

29:47 - Starship vs. Starlink business prediction

32:42 - Is SpaceX a monopoly?

33:26 - Is SpaceX a concern when it comes to investing in the industry?

35:04 - Biggest issues facing startups today and how can investors help

39:04 - Over and under-hyped areas of the market

40:36 - Space ventures in the next decade

42:25 - Gaps in the market

43:37 - Advice to founders looking to start a space company

45:00 - Mars

47:00 - What does Chris do for fun?

• Show notes •

Point72 Ventures’ website — https://p72.vc/

Point 72 Ventures’ socials — https://x.com/p72vc

Chris’ socials — https://x.com/MrChrisMorales

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays
 

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re excited to welcome the one and only Peter Beck, founder and CEO of Rocket Lab. Rocket Lab continues to solidify its position as a leading end-to-end space company, offering launch services, spacecraft platforms, and in-house satellite manufacturing.

In light of Rocket Lab’s Q3 earnings report, which saw a 55% year-over-year revenue increase and a growing backlog of over $1B, this episode dives deep into the company’s strategic and operational decisions driving its success.

In addition, we discuss:

• Rocket Lab’s journey from its early days to becoming the world’s third most frequent launch provider
• The development of Neutron and its significance in addressing medium-class launch demand
• Peter’s philosophy on efficient engineering and capital allocation
• The rise of Rocket Lab’s spacecraft business and its role in the company’s end-to-end space strategy
• Insights into launch market dynamics, from smallsat needs to Starship’s impact on the industry

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:34 - Where is Peter Beck?

01:20 - Space and the coming administration

02:05 - Rocket Lab in the market and where they're going

03:42 - Neutron's first launch

04:24 - What's next after Neutron?

05:41 - What will be the most dominant aspect of Rocket Lab in the future?

07:10 - Hypersonics

08:51 - Electron demand vs. supply

10:02 - Electron after Neutron

13:05 - Neutron's development timeline

16:07 - How does Neutron compare to Falcon 9?

17:20 - Neutron launch cadence

18:12 - What leads to capital efficiency?

21:03 - How Rocket Lab created successful projects

23:04 - Aesthetics vs Engineering

24:26 - SDA contract and de-risking

25:23 - Why build both spacecraft and launch vehicles?

27:33 - Why own and operate your own constellation?

29:56 - DoD's proliferated LEO satellite services program

30:40 - Frank Klein joining Rocket Lab

31:50 - Operations and scaling philosophy

33:25 - Outlook of the supply and demand for launch market

35:13 - Is there still room for new launch startups?

36:46 - Future of launch outside the US

38:30 - Timeline on human spaceflight at Rocket Lab

40:01 - Most strategic or technical risk that Rocket Lab currently faces

41:14 - Rocket Lab and the Moon

43:24 - Things to embrace in order to build a successful company

44:30 - What keeps Peter up at night?

45:16 - When will the space industry be welcomed by the public markets?

49:20 - Things Peter is keeping an eye on

51:03 - Date for humans on Moon and Mars
 

• Show notes •

Rocket Lab's website — https://www.rocketlabusa.com/

Rocket Lab’s socials — https://x.com/RocketLab

Peter's socials — https://x.com/Peter_J_Beck

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week’s Pathfinder pod features Brian D’Erario, the man who keeps the lights on at Payload as the Director of Client Partnerships. Brian’s role is to bring in all the revenue that makes everything at Payload possible (no pressure, Brian!).  With experience working with over 97 partners, Brian has been instrumental in shaping Payload's approach to brand awareness and lead generation.

Brian shares his journey from selling B2B hardware and software to government contractors, to his time at Morning Brew, and finally joining Payload to drive partnerships in the space sector. We explore Brian's background, including his work with various industries and his insights into the unique challenges of marketing within the space industry. We also discuss:

• The marketing strategies that space companies often overlook
• The importance of brand awareness even during the R&D phase
• How startups can compete with the primes
• The role of content in engaging B2B audiences
• Effective conference strategies for maximizing impact

And much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:04 - What does Brian do at Payload?

01:51 - Brian's background

04:33 - Morning Brew

08:09 - Initial assessment of space marketing strategies

10:39 - Do space companies market themselves well?

12:27 - Marketing your product before you start selling

19:46 - Brand awareness vs lead generation

27:40 - When does it make sense for a startup to spend money on marketing?

31:44 - How can a startup develop a marketing plan for a product that competes against a prime competitor?

34:46 - Creating engaging B2B content

41:31 - Agency vs in-house

43:39 - Conference strategies

47:44 - The Marketing Playbook

52:53 - Brian’s publication

55:11 - Partnerships consultant

57:15 - From hockey to pickleball

• Show notes •

Brian’s Marketing Newsletter — https://payloadspace.com/marketing-deep-tech-newsletter/

Brian’s socials — https://twitter.com/derariob

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today's episode of Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out SpiderOak’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com

00:00 — Intro
01:46 — The pre-Quilty Analytics days ... Caleb's winding journey from political science and astronomy to space reporting
08:27 — What do space analysts do for a living?
12:01 — SpaceX and T-Mobile teaming up and satellite-to-smartphone connectivity
21:23 — Tracking newly SPAC'd or IPO'd space companies, vs. established mid/big-cap A&D stocks with large and $$$ space divisions
28:22 — A shout-out to AST SpaceMobile's online fans and r/ASTSpaceMobile ... "Hi, Reddit and AST SpaceMobile subreddit, we're reading you."
30:00 — Caleb's 🐐 description for what supports the satellite industry ... the-three legged stool
36:59 — And don't forget the invisible stool ... cybersecurity, space situational awareness (SSA), and spectrum authorization
47:22 — What was it like moderating the Amazon Project Kuiper announcement, aka the largest commercial launch procurement in history? Caleb interviewed CEOs of Blue Origin, Arianespace, and United Launch Alliance (ULA)
48:33 — Where is the market tapped out? And where is there room to grow? 
52:18 — The long-lasting effects of the Russia-Ukraine conflict on the space industry. With the two space powerhouses at odds, "the split is literally tearing rockets in half and tearing satellites in half."

Caleb's Twitter — https://twitter.com/CHenry_QA
Caleb's LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebahenry/
Ryan's Twitter — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy
Quilty — https://www.quiltyanalytics.com/
Research/reports ($) — https://www.quiltyanalytics.com/research/industry-research/
Diagrams — https://payloadspace.com/pathfinder-0016-featuring-caleb-henry/ 
Parallax —parallax.beehiiv.com

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish Payload, our flagship newsletter, from Monday to Friday; Pathfinder, and Parallax. 

Parallax is our brand-spanking new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

You can subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at payloadspace.com

Today's episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check them out at https://spideroak-ms.com/ and download the new NSR/SpiderOak sponsored whitepaper, titled “Space Cybersecurity – Current State and Future Needs,” at www.spacecyber.com

For starters, we get a status report on what Aquarian’s been up to over the last six months. But there’s plenty more on tap, such as: 

• How Kelly landed at Aquarian, with a serial entrepreneur background and non-space resume
• NASA’s Deep Space Network (DSN) and new opportunities with today’s technology
• Going to market with CLPS (Commercial Lunar Payload Services) rovers and landers
• What a lunar Wi-Fi network will look like and its first applications
• The capital required for the initial network buildout
• Is Kelly worried about aliens free-loading on Aquarian’s Wi-Fi?

…and more! Come for the above topics, stay for ever-so-brief discussions of yoga and astrology (Ryan’s totally unbiased opinion: Aquarians rule).

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

0:00 - Introduction
2:32 - Kelly’s love for space began when she grew up on a farm and was able to look up at the stars
6:49 - “Farm girl turned yoga entrepreneur turned space CEO.” The transformation that brought Kelly to the space industry
11:08 - Kelly’s take on joining Aquarian
13:24 - What problems is Aquarian setting out to solve? How are they approaching these issues?
18:14 - Aquarian’s launch strategy for their communications networks and the growing lunar economy
24:36 - What will Aquarian’s constellation look like? Kelly discusses the need to bring reliable service to Aquarian’s customers
29:11 - Eating the humble pie: how Kelly went about fundraising and pitching in the first round
34:46 - Space camps and mentorship
37:42 - Are there common backgrounds in the technical team at Aquarian?
41:33 - The logistics of being a space startup distributed across the US
45:14 - Kelly’s hottest take, or most contrarian view, of space
46:40 - Who are Kelly’s role models in the space industry? Will Kelly go to space one day?
51:33 - The concern for extraterrestrial life and having advanced network systems in space

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Our guest is Barry Matsumori, a space industry veteran who’s held exec roles at SpaceX, Virgin Orbit, and most recently, was CEO of BridgeComm. Barry’s now the COO of Impulse Space, which was started by SpaceX founding team member Tom Mueller.

Impulse is just a year old and it has only ~40 employees, making it all the more surprising when Impulse and Relativity said they’d partner to launch the first commercial Mars mission in the next available window (late 2024). We grill Barry on the specifics of the mission, and though it feels highly ambitious, it’s safe to say that you don’t want to bet against these teams.

Today's episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check them out at https://spideroak-ms.com/ and download the new NSR/SpiderOak sponsored whitepaper, titled “Space Cybersecurity – Current State and Future Needs,” at www.spacecyber.com

0:00 - Introduction
2:43 -Explaining what it was like to work for Qualcomm, a semiconductor company specializing in silicon chips used in mobile phones
5:20 - Barry’s unorthodox approach to higher education, starting with an undergraduate business degree and then pursuing a postgrad degree in engineering
9:05 - Defining new space
11:20 - The bread and butter of Impulse Space… finding ways to build infrastructure that allows space to become an enterprise
13:37 - Impulse Space aims to be a “last-mile” space transportation player. What does that mean and what does it look like?
17:56 - Discussion of Imulse’s development cycles and vertical integration
19:35 - Where does the startup recruit from? What does its headcount look like?
20:35 - Relativity and Space are working together to do what?!
25:10 - What still needs to happen or fall into place to make the Mars window in 2024?
31:16 - Orbital infrastructure is a prerequisite for more space commercialization (materials processing, pharma development, semiconductor manufacturing, etc.)
36:20 - How using LEO as a parking could usher in a more sustainable phase of space exploration (and return trips to Earth)
40:28 - Pulling in fresh talent from other industries versus recruiting from space competitors
44:07 - Pools of talent density around the US… From LA to Boston, and far beyond
47:26 - If all goes to plan, what will Impulse look like in 2024? What other missions will it be working on?
48:41 - Close of show … Star Wars or Star Trek? Are we alone? Will Barry go to space?

Video referenced in episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuL7iYUNg6o&feature=emb_title

Impulse's website: https://www.impulsespace.com/

Barry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-matsumori-35676/

Mars mission details: https://www.impulsespace.com/mars

Q+A with partner Relativity: https://payloadspace.com/qa-with-tim-ellis-on-relativitys-mars-mission/

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Giuseppe is president at Red Cat Holdings ($RCAT) and founder of Skypersonic, which builds drones that can inspect and survey sites in high-risk, confined, or GPS-denied locations. Skypersonic's product enables remote operators to fly drones indoors 100% remotely and over the internet.

Previously, Giuseppe was responsible for the development of projects on behalf of the European Space Agency at Thales Alenia Space, and has been involved in development of space systems used at NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA). He studied Astronautical Engineering at the University “La Sapienza di Roma” and he achieved the Master of Science in Mechanical Engineering (MSME) at Engineering Faculty of Catania.

What's the space angle? Skypersonic just recently completed a 15-day set of testing its drone at Mt. Etna, an Italian volcano with Martian-esque terrain. Pilots in Houston flew Skypersonic's drones to demonstrate the feasibility of the technology in a Mars-like environment. In 2021, NASA awarded Skypersonic a five-year contract to provide drone and rover software, hardware, and services/support for the US space agency's simulated Mars mission.

0:00 - Introduction
4:27 - Giuseppe got into space at a very young age. Also, Ryan asks the question we’ve all been dying to know… Star Trek or Star Wars?
6:34 - The Italian space sector and working at Thales Alenia
11:24 - Starting simple…how’d Giuseppe come up with the name “Skypersonic”?
13:13 - The startup’s backstory and the art of the pivot
14:08 - 99% of all drones use GPS to fly – Skypersonic is building for the 1% share, and high-risk, highly complex situations and GPS-denied environments.
18:15 - “the pilot is important”
18:46 - A walkthrough of how drones connect to remote operation centers across the world. “Hopefully I can explain in a simple way, even if it’s super complex.”
26:32 - Spillovers from technology developed for space, now being used every day down here on Earth
30:57 - Skypersonic’s testing of its drones and remote operations at Mount Etna (an Italian volcano with a Martian-esque environment)
39:00 - Potential hiccups with using electrical propulsion systems on Mars. Also, spoiler alert, you can’t pilot helicopters on Mars from Earth
41:31 - Getting acquired by Red Cat Holdings, and what it’s like being on the management team of a publicly traded deeptech company
46:56 - Does Giuseppe have any advice for the space SPACs that are trying to tough it out in the public markets right now?
49:51 - Just a normal light question on this Tuesday morning: “Are we alone in the universe?” Giuseppe has worked on space telescopes searching for extraterrestrial planets, so we feel he’s qualified to answer this question.
52:04 - A once-in-a-generation renaissance and technological revival for space
53:40 - Giuseppe’s favorite off-the-radar Italian city

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

By the end of 2023, Satellogic hopes to have 60+ satellites in orbit (and 200+ by 2025). The company made $4.2 million in 2021, the year it began selling and delivering imagery to customers.

Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (https://spideroak-ms.com/), an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com

0:00 - Intro
2:05 - Satellogic’s presence all over the world, from Buenos Aires to the Netherlands
4:35 - What does operating a multinational satellite company look like during a global pandemic? 
6:34 - Emiliano has had the entrepreneurial bug from a young age, since he was programming computers as a 9 year old 
10:42 - The inception story of Satellogic, building a more efficient way to observe Earth and remap the planet, all the way up until 2020
14:49 - What characteristics set Satellogic apart from other smallsat constellations? 
20:22 - Sub meter resolution optical cameras and multispectral cameras being used in object identification and classification in Earth observation (EO)
24:53 - What role do sales and marketing play in reaching new customers in commercial markets?
31:01 - Emiliano’s list of technology and financial trends that made his business possible, from the canonical drop in launch costs to the standardization of launch interfaces and more
37:03 - What are your biggest bottlenecks or constraints: resolution limits or government regulations? 
43:45 - What is a DSC, or dedicated satellite constellation? How does it tie in with space-as-a-service? And why might national governments want to tap DSCs? 
46:33 - Satellogic’s operations over Ukraine and their efforts to aid the country and other NATO members 
50:11 - Being a non-US company listed in the United States, and the positives and negatives of the decision to go public via SPAC (special purpose acquisition company) merger
55:12 - Emiliano’s hottest take, or most contrarian view, on the space industry…His answer The future of the space economy will match the economy on Planet Earth
56:27 - Will Emiliano’s daughter go on to work in the space industry? 
57:26 - Advice for students, especially from the Global South, who are looking to break into the space industry

Satellogic's website: https://satellogic.com/ 
Emiliano's Twitter: https://twitter.com/earlkman?lang=en
Emiliano's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekargieman/?originalSubdomain=ar 
Payload's first Q+A with Emiliano: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-interview/
Satellogic and Astraea Ukraine imagery collaboration: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-and-astraea-create-platform-for-ukraine-imagery/
Satellogic launches new satellites on SpaceX's Transporter-4 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-4/
SpaceX's Transporter-5 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-5/

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

On today's episode of the Pathfinder podcast, we’re tackling the topic of space junk. We’re very fortunate to have Dr. Moriba Jah, one of the world’s foremost authorities on this topic, joining us this week.

Moriba is an astrodynamicist, space environmentalist, and associate professor of aerospace engineering and engineering mechanics at UT Austin (obligatory 'hook em' from Ryan). Moriba is also the chief scientist and cofounder of Privateer, with Alex Fielding and Steve “Woz” Wozniak. Privateer, which stayed highly secretive until relatively recently, bills itself as “a data and intelligence platform empowering the future of space sustainability.”

Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (www.spideroak-ms.com), an industry leader in cybersecurity.

In the simplest of terms, Moriba specializes in studying and predicting the motion of objects in space. It’s a hot topic at the moment, given recent uncontrolled spacecraft reentries, the growing pile of junk in LEO, and the rising importance of space domain awareness (SDA) and space traffic management (STM).

Moriba walks us through his framework for thinking about the orbital commons. Among other things, we discuss…

• The perception of risk and uncertainty
• The criticality of accurate measurements
• How, when, and where national governments are responsible and liable for debris build-up and the downstream consequences
• The geopolitical calculus of maintaining the orbital commons, and the challenges of multilateral coordination
• Moriba’s efforts to “recruit empathy” for space environmentalism and reach a wide swath of the general public
• A tragedy of the orbital commons…but also, reasons to be optimistic

In the back half of the episode, we focus on Privateer and work through the following questions:

• Where does the startup get its data and how could the wisdom of crowds come into play?
• What does the tech stack look like?
• How is Privateer thinking about its own orbital assets and hosted payloads? Where will it buy vs. build?
• What types of organizations will be the power users of Privateer’s platform and the Wayfinder product, if the startup succeeds in its goal?

Come for Moriba’s insightful takes on the serious matters at hand; stay for the dog cameo, keto detour, and wearable technology talk.

0:00 - Intro

3:09 - Moriba’s résumé … from hook ‘em to science committees to disarmament and advising the Scottish government  

5:19 - Explain it like I’m five: what’s astrodynamics? … and @ 7:11, same question but for space environmentalism. Moriba coined the term so he’s a good person to ask.  

8:06 - Space may be an abundant and limitless expanse, but from a resource consumption POV, especially in LEO, it is quite finite

9:44 - How do you feel about the influx of attention to orbital debris and LEO congestion in recent years?

11:42 - Are there parallels, theoretically speaking, between the Kessler Syndrome and planetary feedback loops that could be induced by runaway climate change? 

14:36 - Risk assessment, forecasting, pattern-matching, structured vs. unstructured data, building models, and “epistemic uncertainty” … and @ 18:00, “You can’t know something better than its inherent randomness” 

19:49 - Overseeing our orbital commons is the quintessential international relations problem. With regards to taking ownership and cleaning up the mess, does the buck stop with national governments? 

24:59 - Is there a new co-host of Pathfinder??? 🐶🐶🐶

26:08 - What does reaching our carrying capacity of LEO look like? How many objects can be up there at once? Is it possible to even answer these questions? 

28:28 - The dangers of mucking up key orbits 

30:52 - Privateer intro. Privateer was cofounded by the three amigos: Moriba, entrepreneur and Privateer CEO Alex Fielding, and Apple cofounder Steve “Woz” Wozniak 

33:45 - You have a near-real-time, open-access feed of objects around Earth on your website. Where are you pulling this data from? As it relates to your Wayfinder product, what’s unique about Privateer’s tech stack? In what ways is this an aggregation play? Are you making this data interoperable? 

39:24 - Operationalizing and productizing Moriba’s life work through Privateer’s platform 

40:47 - Privateer will operate its own on-orbit assets

46:42 - You’d have all the reasons in the world to be a jaded realist. Why aren’t you one? How do you stay optimistic? 

50:20 - If you weren’t working in astrodynamics and aerospace, what would you be doing? And finally…favorite taco spot(s) in Austin?

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Today’s guest is Jordan Noone, the cofounder and founding CTO of Relativity Space. Noone now holds the same titles at Embedded Ventures, a self-described deeptech VC “skunkworks” that Noone runs with cofounder Jenna Bryant. Embedded Ventures has partnered with the US Space Force on R&D, and backed early-stage startups like Slingshot Aerospace and Inversion. Jordan is also the cofounder and CEO of KittyCAD, which aims to reinvent how engineers and companies create hardware products. 

On the Relativity front, Jordan helped scale up the company’s additive manufacturing capabilities and hone the rest of the startup’s tech stack. Today, Relativity’s Terran 1 is vertical on the pad in Florida for final tests, before the company conducts an orbital launch attempt this summer. Terran 1 is a 110-foot-tall expendable rocket, and according to Relativity, the largest 3D printed object to exist and to attempt orbital flight. Relativity’s first Terran 1 is 85% 3D printed by mass.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, (http://www.spideroak-ms.com) an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space whitepaper at spacecyber.com

And now without further ado, here’s a glimpse into the range of discussion topics in today’s episode:

• Background in brief
• Jordan’s rebellious streaks as a student and his take on medieval history
• Heading up USC’s Rocket Propulsion Lab, a finishing school for rocket junkies
• Interning, then working full-time, at SpaceX
• Meeting cofounder Tim Ellis (who was on Pathfinder #0009)
• Becoming the youngest person to get an FAA license to launch a rocket to space
• Getting accepted into and graduating from Y Combinator (YC W16, to be exact)
• The advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket parts
• All the other aspects of Relativity’s tech stack that differentiate it from other rocket makers
• Why Jordan left Relativity after roughly five years
• Bringing the design and product ethos of Silicon Valley to the world of defense
• Graduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investor
• Market conditions and what Jordan’s seeing with pricing rounds, startup valuations, etc.
• The downstream effects of space SPACs on future industry financing
• Conflicted cap tables and the geopolitical aspects of venture capital
• Leading KittyCAD, which brings software automation to the hardware world
• Building the Stripe of the hardware world

…and much more! This was a long one, and there’s plenty of other great nuggets and stories buried in the full episode. We’ll leave it to you to discover them yourselves.

0:00 - Intro and Jordan’s background in brief

02:05 - Rundown of Jordan’s résumé left of starting Relativity, from rebellious streaks as a student to his take on medieval history

06:15 - How did the USC administration react to a group of students trying to do something that few other countries, let alone college students, had ever done? 

09:59 - Meeting Tim Ellis, Relativity’s cofounder and current CEO (and a Pathfinder alum…Tim joined us on episode #0009)

11:15 - Interning, then working full-time, at SpaceX … and how SpaceX gives its early-stage employees an impressive amount of substantive projects. 

13:50 - Jordan was the first student to receive what?!  

14:04 - One does not simply launch a rocket into space. We give a glimpse into the hoops that you need to jump through, from calling NORAD to filling out reams of legal paperwork, to launch a rocket into space

19:10 - Starting a multi-billion dollar company at 22, cold-emailing Mark Cuban, and going through Y Combinator (Relativity was in the YC W16 batch)

23:41 - Taking a deeper look into the positives and negatives of 3D printing. What are the technical advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket parts? 

28:22 - Transitioning from Relativity back to the earliest stages of company formation … “I was very hungry to go back to an earlier stage”

31:50 - The genesis story of Embedded Ventures, how Jordan linked up with Embedded cofounder Jenna Bryant, and her backstory

34:52 - A look at the all-mighty CFIUS (the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States)

36:04 - Jordan frequently uses the term “clean capital.” What does he mean by that? 

44:20 - Graduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investor and first-time fund manager

52:31 - Leading KittyCAD, which aims to brings software automation and manufacturing digitalization to the hardware world 

55:30 - Are the founders of KittyCAD cat people?

59:50 - “If you can explain it to your grandmother, a venture capitalist will understand it”

1:04:04 - Hot takes (or most contrarian views) on the space industry … spoiler alert: “we’re in the worst spot for encouraging national security entrance” 

1:10:05 - Jordan’s advice for students who want to break into the commercial space industry

Today’s episode is Pathfinder #0010, which means we’ve made it into the double digits. So far, so good. We’ll see you soon at Pathfinder #0100.

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand that also publishes newsletters and hosts events around the US. Subscribe to our industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

See you back here next week!

On today’s episode of Pathfinder, we’re joined by Tim Ellis, the CEO and cofounder of Relativity Space. Tim was in his twenties when he started Relativity Space with cofounder Jordan Noone six and a half years ago.

Fast forward to today. Relativity’s 3D-printed Terran 1 rocket is at the pad in Cape Canaveral and an orbital launch is “weeks away,” Tim tells us.

Relativity also recently announced that it’s secured more than $1.2B+ worth of launch agreements for the forthcoming, fully reusable Terran R rocket. There are more customer contract announcements to come, Tim says. In fact, just since we recorded 12 days ago, Relativity announced a highly ambitious commercial Mars mission with Impulse Space.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity.

• Tim’s non-linear path into aerospace at USC, where he was part of the first student group to launch a rocket to space and interned back-to-back-to-back at Blue Origin
• Then, Tim and Jordan would go on to get accepted into Y Combinator, cold-email Mark Cuban, and successfully pitch their pre-revenue, pre-product startup to other big investors.
• Relativity is scaling headcount quickly. Relativity had 100 employees before Covid; it now has 850 and expects to hit 1,000 soon.
• The company is also ramping up production, having expanded into a 1M square foot facility in Long Beach, CA. “Our momentum towards Terran R is significant,” Tim says.
• We walk through the unique parts of Relativity’s rocket-making stack, from propulsion to reusability to additive manufacturing.
• 3D printing is “the holy grail of automation technologies for aerospace,” Tim opines, and Relativity’s 3D printing efforts span a few hundred employees. Eventually, the company’s 3D printers may be useful in other industries.
• We ask Tim how he’s navigating market turbulence and whether Relativity A) has taken a valuation haircut, B) will need to raise again soon, or C) if it ever considered going public via SPAC.
• Tim shares his thoughts on the economics of launch and where the market is saturated vs. undersupplied.

…and much more. Over the course of an hour, our conversation took us from writing novels and Fight Club to interplanetary travel and chilling on Mars with a Corona. We hope you’ll learn as much as we did.

00:00 - Intro

1:23 - Settling Tim's age, once and for all

5:03 - A non-linear path into aerospace and Tim's passion for screenwriting and cinema

9:51 - Joining USC Rocket Lab

11:20 - Interning at Blue Origin back-to-back-to-back

12:48 - What % of Relativity's employee base previously worked at SpaceX or Blue Origin?

14:02 - "Several hundred person effort" working just on 3D printing ... and @ 15:43 the perks of 3D printing, "the holy grail of automation technologies for aerospace" 

17:32 -  How the hell did you get Y Combinator to accept a rocket company? 

18:36 - Incorporating, cold-emailing Mark Cuban, Relativity's Y Combinator cohort, and the YC Mob 🙃

21:07 - How does a pre-revenue, pre-product rocket startup sell investors and what does it point to as a sign of progress or traction?

23:23 - Setting the scene for Relativity's first orbital launch attempt with the Terran 1 rocket from Cape Canaveral 

28:40 - Relativity's tech stack 

36:25 - Would Relativity consider selling 3D printers or making other large 3D-printed structures? 

38:25 - Surveying the launch landscape...Tim shares his thoughts on where the launch market is still undersupplied

43:43 - Relativity's $1.2 billion Terran R backlog is growing, with more commercial contracts to be announced 

48:07 - How is Relativity navigating market turbulence and a potential R-word (recession)?

52:35 - Tim's testimony to Congress & recruiting for the commercial space industry and building mission-driven teams 

54:08 - The cast of characters attracted by making life multiplanetary 

58:07 - What's that behind Tim? 

58:44 - How does Tim use Twitter? 

Relativity is scaling headcount quickly. Relativity had 100 employees before Covid; it now has 850 and expects to hit 1,000 soon. 

1:00:00 - Getting swole like Jeff Bezos and staying in touch with his former boss

1:01:06 - Does Tim have plans to travel to the Red Planet one day himself?

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Kevin joined Planet last April to accelerate software and data product development (or help the company move “up the stack”). Before he worked in commercial space, Kevin held leadership roles at Silicon Valley mainstays that have become household names, like Twitter and Instagram. He managed products with hundreds of millions of daily active users.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity.

• Kevin’s journey from studying particle physics to Silicon Valley startups and quickly shipping code
• Twitter’s leadership taking a chance on Kevin and how he grew with the company from 2009 to 2016
• Working at an autonomous Instagram and eventually cofounding Meta’s cryptocurrency project
• What convinced Kevin to jump ship to the new space industry?
• How much of Kevin’s experience was transferable from the consumer social world to product at Planet?
• Selling to governments vs. commercial users
• The “one-to-many” model and what Planet does differently than competitors
• Going public via SPAC and the pressures of being publicly traded
• “Our growth is accelerating” and “we have a proven business model”
• Acquiring VanderSat and launching Planetary Variables
• Planet imagery shaping the general public’s understanding of the Ukraine war
• “Bringing transparency is a massive positive, even if sometimes that means you capture some of the bad things that happen in the world.”
• How does Planet prevent abuse or misuse of its data and imagery?
• What does Kevin wish he could change overnight in the EO industry?

0:00 - Intro 

2:00 - Rundown of Kevin’s résumé, from studying particle physics to quickly shipping code at startups and eventually running product at consumer apps that became household names 

4:19 - Joining Twitter in ‘09…and growing with the company until he departed in ‘16 

5:07 - Running product at Instagram, while the Facebook division was still relatively autonomous 

7:07 - What convinced Kevin to jump ship to the new space industry? 

9:11 - Launching what into space?! Unpacking the tech tailwinds powering the cubesat and smallsat revolutions

11:51 - A simple walkthrough of what Planet’s constellation does daily

13:30 -  the Silicon Valley-style startup product management playbook…What cringe “best practices,” if any, did Kevin take from consumer social to Planet? 

15:07 - Where is the EO (Earth observation) industry at today, in terms of maturity and adoption? 

18:01 - On selling to both governments and commercial users…and when the “flippening,” as Ryan calls it, may happen 

21:26 - Expanding on Planet’s “one-to-many” model 

24:20 - The trials and tribulations of being a publicly traded company

27:50 - Will SPAC turbulence have a lasting impact on future funding? 

30:00 - How Planet processes their data 

33:00 - Case study: VanderSat acquisition and Planetary Variables

35:23 - Switching gears to Ukraine, and Planet imagery’s role in shaping the world’s understanding of what’s happening on the ground 

36:40 - The value of the daily Earth-imaging scans, as it relates to Ukraine and Russian aggression

37:55 - The geopolitical value of unclassified commercial satellite imagery for governments, who can point to the data and say: “This happened. You don’t have to take our word for it.”

41:55 - Buzzfeed researchers noticing pixelated map tiles on Baidu, digging in to Planet data, and making an ugly discovery

43:45 - Mental health and content moderation

46:15 - What safeguards Planet puts in place to prevent abuse or misuse of its data 

48:30 - Genie in a bottle question…What’s one thing that Kevin wishes could change overnight in the EO industry? 

52:30 - Will more engineers follow in Kevin’s footsteps, and move from Big Tech companies to commercial space? 

1:00:06- Worlds colliding question…Will Elon end up owning Twitter?

Kevin's Twitter handle: twitter.com/kevinweil
Check out Planet’s Snapshots newsletter: learn.planet.com/Snapshots_newsletter_Subscription.html
Via Planet CEO Will Marshall, announcing Kevin's hiring last March: planet.com/pulse/preparing-to-scale-planet-welcomes-kevin-weil-as-president-product-and-business/ - "It’s a delight that our business increasingly looks like that of a software company, with product features driven by software advances that deliver value on top of our satellite data. As Planet accelerates as a data and analytics company, we’re bringing on top Silicon Valley software talent to add to Planet’s team. Which brings me to Kevin.

Kevin is a proven leader with a track record of leading software and data product organizations through hyper-growth, and delivering market-making customer solutions — a mindset and body of experience that aligns perfectly with Planet’s high-growth business objectives.

Kevin has built and scaled teams and products at the world’s fastest growing and most consequential companies. Kevin was one of Twitter’s first 50 employees and ultimately became its SVP of Product, leading its consumer, developer, and monetization products as the company went public and scaled to over $2bn in revenue."

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper at spacecyber.com

• Tom's resume. He spent a few decades rising through the ranks and eventually served as president of Northrop Grumman’s aerospace unit before he moved into startupland.
• What he can talk about from his Northrop days (ie, what's been declassified) vs. what still requires a security clearance
• Air and space are the proving ground for autonomy technologies
• Why did the space company spin out of Sierra Nevada Corp. last year?
• Sierra Space's cap table and fortifying the balance sheet before a market downtown
• The space platform play...Dream Chaser is the transportation, Orbital Reef is the destination, and then there's all the space applications
• What's the best historical precedent or analogy for where the space industry is at in this moment in time?
• Tom's visions for the future, with a constellation of private space stations and thousands living and working in space
• Sierra's growth from 1,000 employees at the end of 2021 to 1,800+ now
• For All Mankind
• When is Tom going to space?

The two parts of the bio we discuss: 
1) "It is amazing to me that today we are flying at the same speed we were in 1958 when the Boeing 707 was introduced. In general aviation, the speed of the aircraft has only improved by 10% over 50 years."
2) "We will enable humanity to live, work, explore, and vacation in Space!"

...and more. There's plenty of mind-boggling bits baked into this conversation, from manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum to peering back in time with JWST to Tom's concept for an Asian fusion restaurant in low-Earth orbit.

0:00 - Intro 

2:00 - Tom’s résumé

4:15 - Most guidance systems rely heavily on air and space

8:30 - Sierra Space spins out from Sierra Nevada 

9:50  - A **massive** $1.4B Series A

12:45 - Being a unique space and technology company

15:25 - Still bringing people back from space the same way we did in the ‘60s 

18:35 - Capturing Apple’s platform play 

20:10 - Sierra is building a value ecosystem 

22:05 - What makes the period of time we’re currently in so profound?

26:00 - Is “early internet age” the right analogy for space? 

28:29 - Low-cost transportation lowers barriers to LEO 

32:50 - Making low earth orbit (LEO) accessible and affordable 

37:15 - There’s something extraordinary about the Pale Blue Dot

40:10 - Understanding the significance of Earth

41:50 - ‘For All Mankind’ 

43:53 - When is Tom going to space?

Tom's LinkedIn bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomvice/

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

This week’s Pathfinder pod features Tony Frazier, LeoLab’s newly appointed CEO, to discuss the critical role the company plays in building a living map of orbital activity for space operations. With over $120M of private capital raised, LeoLabs has continued to expand its global network of ground-based radars, currently cataloging over 22,000 objects in LEO. Tony shares his journey from a 13-year career at Maxar to joining LeoLabs, driven by his belief in the company's mission to enhance space safety and security.

We explore Tony's background, including his experience managing billion-dollar P&L operations at Maxar and his involvement with Iridium, which shaped his understanding of the risks posed by debris. We also discuss:

• The founding story of LeoLabs
• The unique advantages of ground-based radar network compared to other tracking methods
• The exponential growth in orbital objects
• Scaling a radar system to meet the demands of a rapidly proliferating LEO environment
• The future of space traffic management and the impact of regulation

And much, much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:33 - What is LeoLabs?

01:34 - Where is LeoLabs based and how long have they been around?

02:42 - How did Tony end up at Leo Labs?

04:26 - The mission

08:04 - Why LeoLabs hired Tony?

09:55 - How important is debris and traffic management?

13:52 - The Kessler Syndrome

15:48 - LeoLabs' architecture

23:08 - Competitor differentiation

25:29 - Advantages of a space-based architecture

28:14 - Scaling

30:09 - 3rd-party data integration

32:12 - Current demand for situational awareness and future predictions

35:06 - Market catalysts

39:38 - How LeoLabs makes money

41:41 - Data tracking for the lowest tier subscription

44:26 - Government vs commercial bookings

44:59 - What makes LeoLabs attractive to investors?

48:16 - Is the goal to become a public company?

49:26 - Killer asteroids

50:07 - Favorite space-related media

• Show notes •

LeoLab’s website — https://leolabs.space/

LeoLab’s socials — https://twitter.com/LeoLabs_Space

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

A Payload on Payload interview? It’s like the Spiderman pointing at another Spiderman meme. Jokes aside, Ryan invited Mo on to discuss a presentation he prepared for the Payload team at their recent off-site meeting. This week’s episode focuses on an adapted version of the deck and what’s happening within the macroeconomy.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper at spacecyber.com.

• Mo’s Wall Street background
• Starting Payload
• Inflation, a possible recession, and the global food crisis
• How it’s all connected to the space industry
• Consumer credit, COVID-19, and a “systemic failure in the crypto industry”
• Aerospace and defense (A&D) outperformance over other indices
• Tech valuation compressions
• A record year for space investing
• The next chapter of the space industry
• Is Starship priced in?

...and much more! It's a great conversation and we're super excited for you to hear it. Thanks to Mo for coming on Pathfinder!

0:00 - Show intro

1:17 - Introduction of the founder of Payload, Mo Islam

2:13 - Mo’s résumé

4:32 - Filling the big gap in media coverage within the space economy 

10:52 - America’s current struggle with inflation 

13:41 - We are facing a global food crisis

16:00 - Mo’s take on a potential technical recession

21:30 - Mo’s favorite topic….. Crypto! 

24:40 - Aerospace & Defense (A&D) was the top traded sub sector in Q2 

29:30 - The Fed is deliberately bursting the bubble on purpose, lowering asset prices on purpose…. “this is different than the global financial crisis”

33:10 - 2021 was a record year for government space investment, leading to increased future budget requests 

34:21 - Russia-Ukraine conflict’s effect on the race for space dominance 

38:20 - “It’s important to remember how quickly the macro can flip” 

43:31 - The end of the first chapter of new space is closing 

49:50 - Unicorn companies typically start in the period following a downturn 

51:40 - Mo’s opinion on the new space race

58:37 - Mo’s hobbies.. He’s a DJ?!

1:01:10 - Will we get boots on the moon in the next decade?

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Welcome to the fifth episode of Pathfinder, a weekly show where Payload managing editor and host Ryan Duffy sits down with the top shot-callers in space.

Per Escaping Gravity’s cover description, “from inside the space agency, Garver collaborated with key players such as Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and President Obama to usher in a more peaceful, inclusive and meaningful space age.” Lori led the NASA transition team for then-President-elect Barack Obama and would eventually go on to be the second-in-command at the US space agency. During her tenure, Lori was widely credited for ushering in a new era of competition in commercial space.

Now, Lori is a Senior Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, an Executive in Residence at Bessemer Venture Partners, and a member of the Board of Directors for Hydrosat. Garver founded Earthrise Alliance, a philanthropic organization utilizing satellite data to address climate change, and cofounded the Brooke Owens Fellowship, an internship and mentorship program for collegiate women.

Thanks to Lori for coming on Pathfinder, and for being our third video interview! And thanks to SpiderOak Mission Systems for their continued support.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper here.

0:00 - Show intro 

1:21 - Lori’s résumé

5:09 - Her view of American space exploration with “a very unique window on a very important time in our history” 

6:20 - Looking beyond space to how the nation grapples with complex threats,  COVID-19, and the military industrial complex 

8:44 - SpaceX and the first crewed launch, “it was a relief that it was happening” 

10:34 - Are we in a paradigm shift?  

11:55 - Pushback within NASA and walking the line…“it’s very hard to make meaningful change in government”

14:02 - Dealing with adversity within NASA and justifying the need for spaceflight programs 

18:17 - Former head of NASA proposing to transfer the commercial crew budget and move it to the rocket program, “embedded a conflict between the private sector…. And SLS & Orion” 

19:48 - NASA’s purposes include commercial space development

23:10 - What are cup boys?!

25:09 - Transferring from NASA to industry, aka the revolving door, is “a cycle that’s unhealthy for our nation’s space program” 

28:05 - What are Lori’s key performance indicators (KPIs)

33:20 - Lori on the difficulties of leaving NASA

37:04 - Unpacking “Political science can often be more complicated than rocket science”

41:30 - You don't need a technical background to get into the space industry!

45:29 - Who are the space pirates and space elites now? 

49:04 - Convergence between space and tech industries, and how/whether the two are competing for talent

53:00 - Lori’s thoughts on diversifying the space industry and how thinking differently can drive positive change 

56:16 - Are we going to have an animal metric system for measuring asteroids?

59:05 - Lori’s experience training for space, singing John Denver to help her stay calm during the spinning chair

1:02:40- When will Lori go to space?

If you’d like to order a copy of Escaping Gravity, you can find one from a range of retailers at www.lorigarver.com.

For a signed copy, reach out to East City Books at www.eastcitybookshop.com/pre-orders/lori-garver-escaping-gravity

Lori’s socials: @Lori_Garver

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Welcome to the fourth episode of Pathfinder, a weekly show where Payload managing editor and host Ryan Duffy sits down with the top shot-callers in space.

Katherine is a prolific writer and deep thinker on aerospace and defense, the US national interest, dual-use technology, and the relationship between Silicon Valley and Washington. As you can see below, we had a wide-ranging conversation on Pathfinder 0004.

Prior to a16z, Katherine was a partner at General Catalyst, and before that, cut her VC teeth at Founders Fund. She was also a general assignment reporter for the Washington Post before moving out to Silicon Valley and started her investing career.

Disclaimer, via a16z: "The content here is for informational purposes only and should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice, or be used to evaluate any investment or security and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund."

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space cybersecurity white paper at www.spacecyber.com

0:00 - intro

2:35 - From pre-Bezos WaPo to B-school to venture investing

3:42 - Culture shock of Silicon Valley and trying to “figure out the story I saw in front of me”

5:40 - Joining a16z and defining the American Dynamism thesis 

8:00 - No more tyranny of geography (Katherine is in Miami!)

10:15 - VC + Silicon Valley exports to the world

13:10 - “It is our goal that every firm has an American Dynamism practice”

15:00 - The false dichotomy of atoms & bits  (not mutually exclusive) … and @ 15:15, Palmer Luckey (founder of Oculus & Anduril) as case study  

15:45 - a16z Cofounder Marc Andreessen’s canonical pieces - “Software is eating the world” in 2011 and “it’s time to build” in 2020 - converging 

18:00 - Building in digital vs. physical worlds 

20:05 - Space is no longer a niche specialized area of investment

21:45 - VCs enabling commercial space sector and government/DoD serving as key initial first customers to help startups get through the “valley of death” 

22:40 - Governments as customers vs. competitors 

23:10 - You can sell to government and move into enterprise, but you can also build a large enough business just selling to “US government and her allies” 

24:43 - Dual-use technology, Silicon Valley working with the Pentagon, and Russia-Ukraine war as a catalyst for more cooperation? 

27:30 - Defense as bipartisan issue then…to national security as ESG 

30:00 - How can A&D startups compete with Big Tech for talent? 

34:20 - Hardware-software hybrids, standing up new A&D company models, and sharing the playbook by “building in public” … talent not only going to Big Tech or academia, but into companies like SpaceX, Anduril, and Hadrian, and then starting companies of their own

35:30 - The role of storytelling in startup success … and @ 36:35, having “an extraordinary storyteller at the helm” … @37:30, motivating teams through common missions and authentic storytelling 

38:00 - Hadrian investment. Tackling issues in the US defense industrial base, supply chains, and fragmented machining/parts manufacturing industry … and 40:45, where Hadrian makes the biggest impact first 

41:00 - Legacy industries serving USG often lack quality software or customer support … consumerization of B2G products 

42:30 - CS PhDs working with machinists and people who resonate with the mission

43:45 - Key under-discussed questions: Who is the team? How did you meet the team? And how are you going to recruit the team? 

48:20 - Criticism of space exploration has been a constant since the inception of the US’s space program … but @ 49:00, space is cool again! We’ve moved to a world where people see space as cool again. 

50:08 - Katherine’s predictions on the future of space exploration … “I don’t think people realize how fast it’s going to be here.”

51:30 - Family conversations on leaving Earth?!

52:45 - Does a16z have a full-time chief meme officer yet?

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Welcome to the third episode of Pathfinder, a weekly show where Payload managing editor and host Ryan Duffy sits down with the top shot-callers in space.

Joining us this week is Lauren Lyons, a space industry consultant, startup advisor, and STEM evangelist. Lauren is working on a new venture, but most recently, was COO of Firefly Aerospace.

Before that, Lauren held senior engineering roles at Blue Origin and SpaceX. While at Blue, Lauren worked on the company’s lunar lander and Orbital Reef programs.

At SpaceX, Lauren worked on the development/certification of Crew Dragon; the launch of Starlink; chief engineering and mission assurance for Falcon 9 and Dragon; and Falcon 9 mission management. Rather casually, she also hosted launch livestreams for a variety of missions, including the Emmy-winning Demo 1. She makes a cameo on Return to Space, the Netflix documentary that aired in April. Lauren estimates these streams were just 5% of her time/duties…so needless to say, she kept busy.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space cybersecurity white paper at www.spacecyber.com

In Pathfinder #0003, Lauren and Ryan discuss:

• Her winding career path through time and space
• How working as a medical device R&D engineer helped prepare Lauren for SpaceX
• Seeing friends on social media celebrate launching their spacecraft on Transporter missions
• Operational efficiency and seeing SpaceX hit its stride
• Launching Starlink
• HLS, Orbital Reef work @ Blue Origin
• Team Space is "super mission-oriented and mission-driven"
• Competing with Big Tech for talent
• The role of company culture in shipping space products successfully
• Lean startup operations during downturns
• Life after SpaceX, for Lauren and her coworkers
• Reducing the barriers to entry for space entrepreneurs
• The SpaceX mafia and new deeptech startups/verticals
• What the general public gets wrong about the space sector
• Lauren & Ryan's shared love for the Supernatural VR fitness app 
• Moving past "space is hard"

…and more!

Pathfinder is powered by Payload, a modern space media brand. Subscribe to our industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com. Thanks again to SpiderOak Mission Systems for supporting Pathfinder.

Finally, as Ryan mentioned in the conversation before the break, here’s the thread from Payload Director of Operations Jess Lis about investing in deeptech during downturns: https://twitter.com/jessicaxlis/status/1530262449139724290

Welcome to Pathfinder, a new weekly show where Payload Managing Editor Ryan Duffy sits down with the shot-callers in space to discuss all the top news and trends beyond Earth. 

In Pathfinder #0002, Ryan sits down with Rob Meyerson, the founder and CEO of Delalune Space and former president of Blue Origin.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space cybersecurity white paper here.

While at Blue Origin, Rob reported directly to Jeff Bezos, oversaw Blue’s growth from 10 to 1,500 employees, and managed development of New Shepard, among many other programs. Rob has also worked at NASA and Kistler Aerospace.

Delalune is a management consulting firm serving the aerospace, mobility, technology, and financial services sectors. At Delalune, which literally means “of the moon,” Rob backs and advises leading aerospace startups, including Axiom Space.

While he spends plenty of time in the private markets, Rob also sits at the junction of space and public capital markets. He is the CEO of C5 Acquisition Corp., a blank-check company seeking a SPAC merger “at the leading edge of national security innovation in space, cybersecurity, and energy transition.” Early on in the discussion, Rob shares his thoughts on why investors would be ill-advised to avoid investing in space during our current market downturn.

Later on, Rob and Ryan drill down on the products and services NASA is looking to buy rather than build or operate itself. Rob also surveys the technologies we’ll need to build, buy, deploy, and launch to ensure an expeditious return to the Moon and sustained presence on the lunar surface.

We touch on building out the lunar economy, then consider all the other puzzle pieces that humanity will need to assemble to not only go back to the Moon, but also set the stage for a lasting multiplanetary future.

1:53 - The NS-21 crewed spaceflight mission 

4:00 - Joining Blue Origin at the tail end of its think tank stage 

4:24 - Reporting directly to Jeff Bezos, Rob's expansive portfolio of duties, and scaling headcount from 10 to 1,500

7:14 - Blue in stealth mode 

9:00 - After Beal Aerospace shut down, "the most recent story about commercial space was a negative one."

11:27 - Pockets of talent density in commercial space across the US

15:55 - Why we'd be ill-advised to stop investing in space during a potential market pullback

19:08 - Defense/aerospace industrial base discussion 

22:32 - Space market assessment, data, and NASA procurement opportunities for startups

27:45 - What's the killer app for low-Earth orbit? 

30:15 - The need for reentry vehicles from low-Earth orbit and return services to Earth 

31:38 - Cost-plus contracting 

35:02 - NASA planting a flag on the moon, and staying, and what that might mean for commercial space entrepreneurs

36:11 - Lunar services and businesses that excite Rob

38:49 - Overhyped/underhyped aspects of space 

41:06 - Rob's advice for students looking to break into the space industry

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Axiom is a Houston-based space startup unicorn. Axiom is building a space station, brokering private spaceflight missions with SpaceX, and even has a slot at the International Space Station (ISS) with its name on it. If you can't tell, we love saying the word space.

Suffredini is one of the world’s foremost authorities on building and operating space stations. He spent three decades at NASA and 10 years as the ISS program manager, before hanging up his space agency cleats and starting Axiom with Kam Ghaffarian.

In April, Axiom clinched a world, or maybe intergalactic, first. Together with SpaceX, Axiom launched Ax-1, the first all-private mission to the ISS. In our conversation, recorded in early May, Suffredini shares plenty with us on Ax-1, Axiom's business model, his time at NASA, Tom Cruise's LEO movie, in-space manufacturing, and much more.

Pathfinder's first episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity.

0:00 - intro

1:33 - Ax-1 mission introduction 

3:07 - Staying busy after the mission concluded

4:17 - Looking back at the launch, what surprised Mike the most?

6:50 - Mike’s departure from NASA, fateful convos with eventual Axiom cofounder Dr. Kam Ghaffarian, and the decision to start Axiom 

9:40 - “He called me back probably the next day and said: 'Okay, I'm in. Let's go build a space station.'”

11:54 - How could a commercial station improve upon what’s been started with the ISS? What’s different between public and private stations? 

13:21 - Spacewalks are expensive and time-consuming, but necessary to repair American components outside the International Space Station

14:13 - At the ISS, “we transitioned to a laptop you could buy online.” Axiom is taking this approach to a whole new level.

14:40 - UX (user experience) space stations - a niche but important discipline

15:29 - Fixing issues in flight without calling the ground and using automated onboard hardware

15:50 - Cost comparisons between public and private stations 

16:10 - Buy vs. build

18:07 - Vertical integration 

19:56 - Axiom’s roadmap: Phase #1 @ 20:04, Phase #2 @ 21:45, and Phase #3 @ 22:46

23:46 - Later this century, Axiom has sci-fi visions of creating rotating space cities in low-Earth orbit

26:24 - NASA shifting from owning/operating a station to being one customer on it 

31:04 - Axiom’s target markets, from applied research to in-space manufacturing

33:16 - “The big thing that’s really ‘gonna change our lives”...

33:12 - The killer app for space stations?

36:01 - Internet analogy … and Amazon comparison @ 40:07

37:20 - Inspiring kids to start thinking about microgravity and building products/businesses suited to the conditions of microgravity

42:52 - “The movie flight is the worst-kept secret in the industry” (👀Tom Cruise👀)

43:53 - Closing out the show with a bunch of Texas questions

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome back Andy Lapsa, cofounder and CEO of Stoke Space. Stoke has made remarkable strides since Andy's last appearance on the show two years ago. They've grown to over 140 employees and developed innovative full-flow staged combustion cycle engines and reusable upper-stage prototypes. Andy shares his insights on the challenges and progress in creating fully reusable launch vehicles, emphasizing the importance of rapid reusability for reducing costs and increasing availability and reliability.

We dive into Andy's background, including his ten years of experience at Blue Origin and his decision to start Stoke Space to accelerate the pace of innovation. We also discuss:

• The unique technical approach of Stoke and the architecture of their first launch vehicle, Nova
• The strategic decision to focus on second-stage reusability and how it differentiates Stoke from other providers
• Thoughts on the current state of launch and the market potential for multiple providers
• The importance of manufacturing and scalability in achieving high-frequency launches
• Stoke's proprietary software, Fusion, and its role in optimizing operations

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:34 - What's changed since our last episode?

03:04 - Why Andy started Stoke?

07:09 - Andy's time at Blue Origin

09:14 - What makes Stoke different from other launch providers?

12:14 - Focusing on 2nd stage launch first

14:47 - Payload capacity

15:53 - Why has it taken so long for SpaceX to work on fully reusable launch capabilities?

18:36 - Is there a market for multiple launch providers?

21:32 - Growth in launch demand

29:04 - Value proposition for working with Stoke

30:25 - Getting to orbit

36:24 - Minimum viable success

37:59 - Product roadmap post-Nova

40:03 - Investor misconceptions about launch

42:21 - The factory is the product?

44:52 - Fusion

53:29 - What keeps Andy up at night?

54:47 - Funding

55:19 - Stoke's big vision

56:12 - Who plays Andy in the movie about Stoke?
 

• Show notes •

Stoke’s website — https://www.stokespace.com

Stoke’s socials — https://twitter.com/stoke_space

Andy’s socials — https://twitter.com/AndyLapsa

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder features Colin Doughan, CEO of Gravitics, a Seattle-based startup that specializes in the development of modular space infrastructure to support the expansion of stations and orbital platforms. Their primary product is the StarMax module, which can be customized in various sizes to accommodate different launch vehicles and mission requirements.

Colin shares his journey into the aerospace industry and his vision for building real estate platforms in space. With a background that includes nearly 20 years at Lockheed Martin and founding Altius Space Machines (acquired by Voyager), Colin brings a considerable amount of experience in infrastructure development.

We explore:

• The approach Gravitics takes in developing scalable station modules
• The market potential for free-flying stations and the impact of new launch vehicle capabilities
• Operator vs builder model in space stations
• Challenges in scaling manufacturing and testing for space environments
• The future of artificial gravity and its importance for long-term space habitation

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & Epsilon ad

02:04 - Colin's background

03:23 - Colin's first business venture

04:02 - Why start a space station business?

05:25 - Evolution of the Gravitics's vision

06:57 - Zero G modules

07:36 - Business model

08:26 - Why not operate modules?

10:04 - How do you perceive the market opportunity for free-flying space stations?

18:19 - Design decisions

22:25 - Turning a competitor into a customer

25:02 - Gravitics's approach vs existing providers

26:14 - Is there enough capital and investors to sustain this market?

30:26 - Countries creating their own launch capabilities

33:24 - StarMax

35:44 - Insourcing vs outsourcing

36:52 - Scaling manufacturing

40:05 - Testing

42:50 - Technical challengers that keep Colin up at night

44:42 - Commercial and government traction

48:34 - Long-term view

50:09 - ETA for Elysium?

50:35 - Who's going to play Colin in the future movie about Gravitics?

• Show notes •

Gravitic’s website — https://www.gravitics.com/

Gravitic’s socials — https://twitter.com/graviticsinc

Colin’s socials — https://twitter.com/colindoughan

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder guest is Tina Ghataore, Chief Strategy and Revenue Officer at Aerospacelab as well as CEO of Aerospacelab N.A. With a background in aerospace engineering and extensive experience in business development and strategy, Tina has been instrumental in taking products and services to market in both large and small companies.

Aerospacelab is a Belgium-based company specializing in satellite platforms and components. Our conversation with Tina covers the fascinating world of satellite technology and Aerospacelab's role in it. We explore

• The vision of founder, Benoît Deper, and the company's growth over the past six years
• Approach to building and launching satellites
• The significance of vertical integration
• Challenges and opportunities in the commercial and government satellite markets
• The role of Aerospacelab North America in expanding capabilities

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:04 - About Tina and her path to Aerospacelab

04:44 - Why Aerospacelab?

06:24 - Aerospacelab's history and Tina's division

09:38 - Why does Aerospacelab need a division focused on North American clients?

12:20 - Market opportunity and distinguishing from their competitors

17:29 - Gauging SpaceX's long-term bus desires

19:44 - Current and future product roadmap

23:53 - How is Aerospacelab currently building satellites

27:43 - Aerospacelab's max satellite capacity

31:49 - Customer base

36:41 - How is Aerospacelab funded?

39:15 - 10 year vision

42:06 - Space in the Middle East

50:32 - Startups that Tina is excited about

53:54 - What does Tina do for fun?

• Show notes •

Aerospacelab’s website — https://www.aerospacelab.com/

Aerospacelab’s socials — https://twitter.com/aerospacelab_

Tina’s socials — https://twitter.com/Tina_Ghataore

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we feature Kate Kelly, Director of Space and Emerging Programs at BWXT, an 8,000-person firm that specializes in delivering nuclear reactors and components for the Navy, commercial nuclear industry, and advanced technologies. 

Kate shares her journey into the nuclear and space industry, providing insights into the advancements and challenges faced by BWXT. With a background in chemical engineering, Kate has been with BWXT for over a decade, contributing to significant projects like small modular reactors and space nuclear propulsion systems.

Our conversation with Kate covers the world of space nuclear technology and BWXT's role in it. We also discuss:

• Kate's unconventional path into the nuclear industry and BWXT
• The significance of the DARPA Draco Phase 2 Award and its impact on space nuclear propulsion
• The role of nuclear thermal propulsion in future exploration
• Challenges and milestones in developing nuclear technology for space
• Regulatory processes and safety considerations for nuclear systems

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:25 - How Kate ended up at BWXT and pursuing nuclear

03:47 - Quick rundown on BWXT

04:34 - What has made Kate stay at BWXT for her whole career?

06:50 - Director of space and emerging programs

08:02 - For All Mankind and how nuclear propulsion works

11:29 - First spacecraft to use nuclear propulsion

12:51 - Milestones

14:33 - What does nuclear propulsion solve?

16:25 - What kind of work is BWXT doing on the power side when it comes to space?

19:46 - Possible scenarios for nuclear power solutions on Earth

21:38 - Long-term value behind BWXT's tech

23:19 - The size of Kate's division

24:45 - How does regulation work for nuclear technologies in space?

27:40 - State of nuclear today and how long until it becomes commercialized

30:38 - BWXT post successful demonstration prediction

32:03 - Safety and combatting public perception on nuclear

34:54 - How BWXT tests their propulsion systems

37:24 - Competitors

38:57 - How does BWXT compete against faster and more agile startups?

41:34 - Nuclear for space in 10 years

43:16 - What Kate does with her free time
 

• Show notes •

BWXT’s website — https://www.bwxt.com/what-we-do/advanced-technologies/

BWXT’s socials — https://twitter.com/BWXT

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Fresh off of a $95M Series B funding round, this week we bring back Ian Cinnamon, CEO of Apex, on to the show. Ian, along with his co-founder Max Benassi, started Apex to address the bottleneck in satellite bus manufacturing. Apex is revolutionizing the small satellite bus market with its productized approach and rapid manufacturing capabilities. 

Our conversation explores Ian’s journey from concept to scaling production, including:

• The Series B funding round and its implications
• Apex's mission to become the leading supplier of satellite buses
• Challenges and strategies in scaling production
• Importance of maintaining a product-focused model
• Insights into the evolving satellite bus market
• The future vision for Apex

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & 100th episode!

02:42 - Apex origin story

03:59 - Changes between funding rounds

05:12 - Key factors in raising $95m

06:40 - Financing needs of Apex

07:35 - Current fundraising environment

09:07 - Market opportunity of satellite buses

10:55 - Is there serious demand for buses if you take out Starlink?

16:05 - Winning niche for contracts

17:53 - How Apex separates itself from competitors

19:27 - SpaceX's bus building capabilities

21:04 - Plans beyond LEO

22:06 - Apex naming scheme

23:49 - Mission 1

28:23 - First expectations for Mission 1

30:10 - Mission 1 timeline

32:24 - Combatting the unreliability of the current state of launch

37:03 - Balancing Apex's needs and the government's

40:42 - Impending government contract win?

41:53 - Why Apex built an e-commerce workflow

44:22 - Scaling

48:09 - Team size and expansion goals at Apex

49:34 - What kind of capital would Apex need to be self-sustainable

51:56 - Advice for prospective founders

53:15 - Long-term vision, 10 years out

55:53 - Who is playing Ian in the movie about Apex?

• Show notes •

Apex’s website — https://www.apexspace.com/

Apex’s socials — https://twitter.com/ApexSpacecraft

Ian’s socials — https://twitter.com/IanCinnamon

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

There aren’t many dedicated space economists out there, but today we’re lucky enough to be joined by one. This week’s Pathfinder guest is Pierre Lionnet, Research and Managing Director at Eurospace, who shares his critical and thought-provoking insights into the space economy. Pierre, with a background in engineering and finance, has spent 30 years analyzing and providing data-driven perspectives for the space industry. He’s also not afraid to ruffle feathers or challenge conventional thinking with his views.

Eurospace, a non-profit trade association, focuses on delivering analytics and independent assessments to its members. Our conversation delves into Pierre's critical perspective on the space economy and the industry's current dynamics. We also explore:

• Forecasting the economy over the last decade and potential overestimations
• Impact of increased mass in orbit 
• General misconceptions about the industry 
• Sustainability of the current startup environment
• Future of private investment and commercialization in space

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:38 - The Space Economist

02:50 - Space industry over 30 years

04:56 - What sparked Pierre's passion for space economics

07:39 - Previous economists before Pierre

10:43 - Pierre's team at Eurospace

11:15 - Common misconceptions about the industry

13:36 - Concerning and interesting trends in the industry

18:53 - How big is the industry today?

21:43 - Gaps in estimates

25:46 - Negative effects of inaccurate estimates

28:26 - Current view on the startup market and future predictions

34:28 - US vs European startup ecosystem

35:32 - How Pierre would invest his capital

38:35 - Challenges of commercialization and launch costs

44:45 - Is there a viable business model around Starlink?

48:14 - Business case for the Moon

50:31 - What causes a break in interest and passion in investors?

55:27 - Overlooked or undervalued areas of the market

58:08 - What startup would Pierre work at if he had to choose one?

01:00:57 - Space leaders that Pierre follows

01:04:02 - Advice for making sure the space economy continues to grow in the right way

01:06:41 - What does Pierre do for fun?

• Show notes •

Eurospace website — https://eurospace.org/

Pierre’s socials — https://twitter.com/LionnetPierre

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms.
1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

It’s not every day you get to hear space industry perspectives from a former Hollywood talent agent turned investor. Today we're joined by Mike Palank, General Partner at MaC Venture Capital, who shares his career path and insights into the world of VC. Mike, with a background in the entertainment industry, including working at WME as a talent agent, with Will Smith and co-founding MaC Venture Capital, brings a unique perspective on identifying talent and investing in innovative startups.

MaC Venture Capital, founded in 2019, focuses on early-stage investments, emphasizing diversity and unique backgrounds among its partners and portfolio. Our conversation delves into Mike's strategic vision and track record. We also explore:

• The transition from talent agent to venture capitalist and the skills that overlap
• Key investment areas within aerospace, defense, and diverse tech sectors
• The importance of diversity in the venture capital industry and how it impacts investment decisions
• What’s next in space investing

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:56 - Mike's background

07:23 - From talent agency to VC

11:07 - Spotting talent

13:33 - MaC's structure, investment thesis, and thoughts about space

26:00 - How to get up to speed on new industries and the state of startups in the current market as an investor

33:07 - Notable investments

44:02 - Common founder mistakes

51:24 - Mike's view on diversity in the space industry

57:22 - Hyped and overhyped sectors in the market

• Show notes •

MaC Venture Capital website — https://macventurecapital.com/

Mike’s socials — https://twitter.com/mpalank101

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Ever wanted to hear the firsthand experience of a New Shepard astronaut? Well, today we're joined by Mason Angel, General Partner at Industrious Ventures, who was on Blue Origin’s most recent flight to space. Mason, with a background deeply rooted in industrial sectors like GE and Linde through his family, shares his unique journey and insights into investing in legacy industries, focusing on aerospace and defense.

Industrious Ventures, founded over four years ago, aims to revitalize these often-overlooked sectors by leveraging innovative technologies and substantial expertise. Our conversation delves into Mason's strategic vision and track record. We also explore:

• The impact of a spaceflight experience and a renewed perspective on space tourism and the commercial space industry
• Key investment areas within legacy industries
• Future missions and the commercial potential of space

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:38 - Mason and Industrious Ventures

01:37 - Family expertise

02:33 - What is a legacy industry?

04:11 - Being a crew member of Blue Origin's Shepard

06:35 - Experience vs expectation of going into space

07:45 - What's the moment where you are not allowed to get off anymore?

09:04 - Training

11:28 - Weightlessness

13:37 - How does Industrious differ from other firms?

15:43 - State of space investment

18:45 - Why is there room for multiple launch companies?

19:54 - Investing in Stoke & Ursa Major

21:53 - Starship's economic impact

23:14 - Why is interest in the Moon increasing and is Mason thinking about investing in those companies?

24:57 - AstroForge

26:15 - Resources beyond He3

27:16 - Space stations today

31:40 - How has going to space affected Mason's perspective on the business of space?

33:00 - Investing beyond space

35:30 - Areas of the market that are underhyped

36:43 - Technologies that don't exist today that will in 10 years

38:24 - Prediction: Starship's first commercial launch

40:35 - What are LPs looking for from GPs today?

42:37 - If Mason wasn't doing space, what else would he be doing

• Show notes •

Industrious Ventures website — https://www.industrious.vc/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we explore the world of satellite deployment and launch services with Robert Sproles, CEO of Exolaunch. Exolaunch is a leader in satellite integration, offering launch services and deployment solutions for commercial and government clients.

We explore how Exolaunch has built a cashflow-positive business with a remarkable track record of reliability, all without external funding. In addition, we discuss:

• Exolaunch's founding story and its bootstrapped growth from a university project in Berlin to a $100M revenue company
• How Exolaunch navigates partnerships with major launch providers like SpaceX, Rocket Lab, and Ariane
• Robert’s insights on the demand for satellite launches and the need for diversity in orbital access
• Exolaunch's plans for the future, including scaling to support larger satellites and expanding their U.S. operations
• The broader ecosystem of launch services and how larger rockets like Starship and New Glenn fit into the market

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:30 - Robert's background

08:13 - What is Exolaunch and the products offered?

10:02 - Founding of Exolaunch and building a company without the need for raising capital

14:09 - Bootstrap from day one and future funding plans

16:35 - From Arkansas to Germany

19:02 - Robert transitioning to CEO

21:16 - Current market for rideshare, deployment, and mission management

23:45 - What is different about Exolaunch?

25:48 - Are more launch companies good for Exolaunch and is SpaceX a monopoly?

27:02 - Are transporter missions anti-competitive to other launch companies?

30:13 - Future satellite trends

31:42 - How larger launch vehicles affect Exolaunch

33:33 - Is the launch market supplier demand constrained?

35:35 - How do non-American operators feel about using American launch providers?

37:39 - What does reliability look like?

40:08 - Exolaunch's agility

43:34 - Missions that pushed the boundaries of Exolaunch's capabilities

45:36 - Exolaunch headcount and future plans

46:32 - Growth areas

47:37 - 10+ year outlook

49:07 - What does Robert do outside of Exolaunch?

52:26 - Places to eat in Little Rock, Arkansas

• Show notes •

Exolaunch’s website — https://exolaunch.com/

Freeform’s socials — https://twitter.com/Exolaunch

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Ray Allensworth, Spacecraft Program Director at Firefly Aerospace. Ray, who has a previous background with major aerospace names like Raytheon and Northrop, helps lead Blue Ghost, Firefly’s lunar lander program designed to deliver scientific and commercial payloads to the surface of the Moon. The company is currently on track to be the next commercial lunar lander on the Moon with its planned launch in November aiming for the elusive 100% flawless mission which has not yet been achieved by any commercial entity.

Our conversation delves into the comprehensive capabilities of Firefly as an end-to-end space transportation company, the intricacies of the Blue Ghost program, and the significance of lunar exploration. We also explore:

• The origins and objectives of Blue Ghost
• Technical milestones and challenges
• The economic and strategic importance of lunar landers
• The role of Firefly in the broader context of NASA's Artemis program
• Future missions and the commercial opportunity on the moon

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

00:37 Firefly overview

01:27 Blue Ghost

03:02 How Ray got to Firefly and her background

04:22 Building a space company in Texas

05:18 What is the importance of returning to the moon?

07:01 National security interest in the Moon

08:20 Viability of developing products for the Moon

09:50 Current moon landing customers and where Ray sees growth

11:04 Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) Program

12:26 Most promising commercial opportunity on the Moon

14:43 Why is it still so hard to land on the Moon?

16:58 How is the Blue Ghost Architecture different from other lunar landers?

19:54 Technical milestones, team, and launch for Blue Ghost

21:01 Most important challenges to overcome for Mission 1

23:04 Powering beyond solar

23:54 Testing for the lunar environment

28:29 What risks keep Ray up at night?

29:52 Customer goals for Mission 1

31:20 The international market

35:44 Commercial landing on the dark side of the Moon

36:53 What's next after CLPS?

37:47 Blue Ghost profitability

39:58 Firefly's role in Artemis program

41:37 Is sample return in the future plan?

42:03 Press bomb prep

43:17 Is the Moon your calling?

44:54 What would you send to the Moon?

46:22 Ray's favorite place to eat in Texas

• Show notes •

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Firefly’s Blue Ghost website — https://fireflyspace.com/blue-ghost/

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Jed McCaleb, Founder, and Max Haot, CEO, the leaders behind Vast, a company pioneering the development of commercial space stations. Jed, a seasoned software entrepreneur, and Max, a veteran in space and internet ventures, bring their unique expertise to the ambitious goal of advancing human habitation in space.

Our conversation covers the critical aspects of creating economically viable space stations, the strategic role of life support systems, and the significance of reducing transportation costs. We also explore:

• Space station economics, pros/cons of competition
• Military opportunities and sensitivities in space station use
• Integration of Launcher post-acquisition
• Challenges and excitement of Haven One's launch
• Vast’s product roadmap

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

00:53 Jed's career path and creating Vast

02:57 Balancing aspirations and making money

04:57 Max's history building business and how he came to Vast

08:49 Max's primary objective at Vast

11:22 Jed's experience building a hardware company

12:31 Market opportunity for a free flying space station

15:20 Haven 1

19:17 Building components in house

21:07 Materials use and construction safety

23:03 Vast's approach vs competitors

29:45 Importance of being first in the market

31:41 Is the market large enough to sustain multiple station providers?

33:25 Common misconceptions of space station investment

38:02 Vast x SpaceX partnership

40:55 Product roadmap

43:22 Coinciding with Starship timelines

45:06 Will Starship be converted into a space station?

46:10 Fundraising

47:09 Economics around Haven 1

51:37 Military applications

53:30 Utilization after acquisition

54:13 What excites you and keeps you up at night?

• Show notes •

Max’s socials — https://twitter.com/maxhaot

Jed’s socials — https://twitter.com/JedMcCaleb

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Vast’s website — https://www.vastspace.com/

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Sid Dixit, former CTO of Maxar and a seasoned leader in the space industry. Sid's career spans pivotal roles at Planet, Amazon, and Maxar, where he has been at the forefront of satellite technology, artificial intelligence, and geospatial data platforms.

Our discussion delves into the transformative impact of generative AI and large language models on satellite imagery analysis, the evolving landscape of commercial and government demand for Earth observation data, and the potential commoditization of satellite imagery. We also explore:

– The role of SpaceX and its impact on the LEO market
– Challenges and opportunities for Earth observation startups
– The future of satellite imagery quality and its market needs
– Investment strategies within the industry
– Promising Earth observation startups
This episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, a cloud-based platform that supports a wide range of operational procedures requiring extreme efficiency and control. Innovative teams at NASA, Blue Origin, Redwire, and Firefly Aerospace use it to plan, execute, and automate their most complex workflows. • Chapters • • Show notes • Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & Epsilon Ad

01:24 Sid's journey from Planet, Amazon, and Maxar

04:57 Sid's robotics work at Amazon

07:24 How Sid got back into Earth observation

08:21 Maxar's acquisition

11:11 Advent and BCI's end goal

13:20 State of Earth observation

18:50 SpaceX's potential impact on LEO

23:04 If SpaceX goes after remote sensing, what will happen to all the companies operating in LEO?

25:37 Commercial demand

28:31 Do you see imaging tech as improving marginally or step-wise?

34:14 Will AI help open up the commercial market?

41:05 Who's the winner when it comes to the use of models in EO?

45:07 Will satellite imagery become commoditized?

46:48 At what point will imaging quality improvements be enough?

49:03 If you were managing $1m, how much of it would go to EO?

51:20 EO startups to look out for

52:54 Overview

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Sinead O’Sullivan, an economist and board member of the European Space Policy Institute. Sinead has had a unique career, from her early days in aerospace engineering in Northern Ireland to significant roles on Wall Street and at top academic institutions like Georgia Tech and Harvard. In her free time, she’s written about space, economics, wine, and even music for publications such as the Financial Times, Vogue, and The New Yorker—because who doesn't love a little light writing and high-profile journalism to unwind?

Our discussion explores the intricate dynamics of public vs. private funding in the space industry and the challenges posed by venture capital and institutional investments. In addition, we discuss:

• Capital destruction in new technologies
• The importance of institutional capital
• …if the industry can maintain its growth
• The future of space financing

This episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, a cloud-based platform that supports a wide range of operational procedures requiring extreme efficiency and control. Innovative teams at NASA, Blue Origin, Redwire, and Firefly Aerospace use it to plan, execute, and automate their most complex workflows.

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & Epsilon ad

01:16 Sinead's background

07:56 Engineer or Economist?

09:49 Sinead, the writer

12:14 Public vs private funding sources

20:00 The sustainability of current private-first funding mechanisms

28:14 Role of DoD in supporting startups

46:39 What will make institutional capital take the space industry seriously?

55:31 Space financing in 10 years

01:00 Irish modern art

• Show notes •

Sinead’s socials — https://twitter.com/SineadOS1

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week’s Pathfinder features Chris Taylor, CEO and founder of Aalyria, a Google spinout that specializes in advanced connectivity solutions. The company is developing what could be game changing free-space optics hardware and network orchestration software to meaningfully change communication speed and efficiency across air, space, land, and sea. It’s core products include:

• Tightbeam: An advanced free-space optics technology which uses coherent light (laser technology) to transmit data at high speeds over long distances without physical connections like cables.
• Spacetime: A SaaS platform that serves as a network management system that can control and direct data flows across different types of infrastructure, including satellites, ground stations, and other communication devices, effectively making each component a node in a larger network (think: traffic controller for communications).

 In this episode, we dissect:

• Free space optics 101
• Aalyria’s origins as a Google spinout
• Deep dive on core technologies and challenges
• Strategic commercial applications

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

00:32 Chris's path to Aalyria

02:15 What is Aalyria building?

04:52 How do different space assets communicate with each other today?

05:59 What is optical communication?

07:58 The coherent light free space optics (FSO) program

10:50 Why did Google sell their optical comms tech?

12:56 Why is this so important?

15:15 Benefits of Tightbeam over existing free space optics, coherent vs non-coherent space optics

21:22 Customer profiles

25:41 Real-world use case

28:02 Use case in autonomous fleet navigation

29:44 Fleet of autonomous taxis

30:53 Size of Aalyria's addressable market

35:34 Commercialization prospects

38:32 Work with DIU (Defense Innovation Unit)

40:01 Competitors

42:25 Limits of technology

44:22 Funding

47:00 10-year vision

50:34 What does Chris do for fun?

• Show notes •

Aalyria’s website — https://www.aalyria.com/

Aalyria’s socials — https://twitter.com/AalyriaTech

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

The first single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO) space plane? That's exactly what we're discussing on this week’s Pathfinder podcast. We interview Livingston Holder, cofounder and CTO of Radian Aerospace, which is developing a fully reusable space plane designed for horizontal launch and landing.

SSTO? Essentially, SSTO vehicles are designed to reach orbit using a single stage without discarding any hardware.

We explore Livingston’s background as a former USAF astronaut as well as the Seattle-based startup’s roadmap to build the world’s first SSTO space transport vehicle. In addition, we cover:

• Radian’s technology advantage
• Cultural and operational shifts in space missions
• Market positioning of SSTO
• Future applications and impact on space ops

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA).

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

02:12 Why space?

04:45 The astronaut program

06:06 Culture of NASA vs AF astronauts

07:29 Life after the program

09:24 Livingston's path to Radian

12:39 What is Radian building?

16:05 Unique take off

18:17 Who designed the sled?

19:36 Single-Stage-to-Orbit

23:26 Nozzle extensions

25:10 Why now?

29:12 How Livingston met his cofounder

33:19 Where is Radian today?

38:19 First flight test projection

39:23 Capabilities and market positioning

43:19 Hypersonic travel

47:32 Government and commercial traction

49:41 Direct competitors

52:15 How expensive is it to build Radian's spaceplanes?

54:43 What does Livingston do for fun?

• Show notes •

Radian's website — https://www.radianaerospace.com/

Radian's socials — https://twitter.com/RadianSpace

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Right on the heels of their $90M funding round, this week’s Pathfinder spotlights Varda and its cofounders, Will Bruey (CEO) and Delian Asparouhov (President). The LA-based startup harnesses microgravity for pharmaceutical development and manufacturing. In its latest mission, the company successfully processed ritonavir, a crucial antiviral drug utilized in HIV/AIDS treatment.

In addition to Varda’s origin story and the Series B fundraise, Mo, Will, and Delian discuss:

• Varda’s commercialization strategy
• The business case for in-space manufacturing
• The significance of the W-1 mission
• Adapting to the regulatory environment
• Microgravity formulation optimization

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA).

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

01:21 Varda’s origin

05:40 What are you building?

08:17 What does space have to offer for manufacturing?

12:00 The business case for space manufacturing

18:02 What drugs have been improved in space?

19:13 What happened to ZBLAN?

20:54 R&D for manufacturing in space

22:34 The W-1 mission

29:05 Customer traction

30:38 Where does Varda's business risk lie?

38:22 Competitive landscape

39:49 Potential partnerships

42:48 Regulatory learnings

45:30 The Series B

46:57 Use cases beyond pharma

48:19 Space stations

55:35 Other companies Will is excited about

57:22 Where would Delian invest his last space investment?
 

• Show notes •

Varda’s website — https://www.varda.com/

The Return of Ritonavir Paper: https://www.varda.com/papers/1711063046-return-of-the-ritonavir-a-study-on-the-stability-of-pharmaceuticals-processed-in-orbit-and-returned-to-earth.pdf

Will’s socials — https://twitter.com/WillBruey

Delian’s socials — https://twitter.com/zebulgar

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Dan Wright is no typical founder. With a formidable background at software powerhouses like AppDynamics and DataRobot, Dan has shifted his focus towards bridging the technological gap in edge computing with his latest venture, Armada. As the world’s first full-stack edge computing platform, Armada integrates computing and AI capabilities directly where data is generated.

Dan started Armada after recognizing a significant shift in data generation to the edge and the inadequate response of centralized clouds to the demands of heavy data producers in sectors like oil and gas and manufacturing.

In today’s episode, Dan discusses the origin story of Armada and its strategic partnership with Starlink, which allows it to extend its edge computing capabilities to remote locations. We also discuss:

• The impact of edge computing
• Armada’s product suite and roadmap
• Bridging the digital divide
• Building a business with SpaceX

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA).

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

01:11 What is Armada and why did you start the company?

02:33 Adding hardware capabilities

04:34 What is edge computing?

07:00 75% of all data will be generated at the edge

10:12 Serving remote corners of the world

11:22 What kind of efficiency will edge computing be able to make?

14:06 Armada x Starlink

16:59 How did Armada build their relationship with Starlink?

18:51 How did you convince SpaceX to work with you?

20:30 Without Starlink, can Armada still be successful?

22:11 Armada’s product suite

25:41 Creating demand for 3rd parties in the marketplace

28:11 The Galleon

30:44 Customer traction, targeting, and product in the field

32:58 Armada's smallest but still relevant customer

34:18 The competitive landscape

36:13 Extreme testing for Galleon

38:45 Capital raising

41:38 What keeps Dan up at night

43:17 Galleons but in space?

44:47 10 year vision

46:04 Dan's opinion on Starship's next flight test

50:40 What does Dan do for fun?
 

• Show notes •

Armada’s website — www.armada.ai

Dan’s socials — https://twitter.com/danwrightSF

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays
 

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week, we bring you our second installment of Pathfinder’s special podcast series on the State of the Space Industry. As a reminder, you’ll hear from two members of Payload’s editorial staff on key trends, exclusive interviews, and insights shaping the industry.

Today’s episode explores EO & SatCom, featuring Payload’s Research Director, Jack Kuhr, and Lead Reporter, Rachael Zisk. Highlights from the discussion include:

EO

• EO market dynamics in 2023
• Public EO companies’ trajectory
• VC inclinations and startup viability in EO
• Speculating on SpaceX's emerging EO ambitions
• The realities of commercial demand

SatCom

• The SatCom market in 2023
• The impact of the Ukraine war
• Exploration of direct to cell innovations
• SpaceX’s strategic moves
• Investor sentiment and edge computing in SatCom

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). Be sure to check out the Italian Pavilion  in South Hall (Booth 603) during Space Symposium!
 

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

01:22 Jack's background

02:21 Earth Observation market in 2023

04:41 State of the public EO

06:23 Major fundraisers in 2023

07:51 EO startups securing venture capital

14:20 Spire and BlackSky

16:19 SpaceX and EO

18:59 Consolidation in the EO market

22:37 Rachel’s background

23:30 Satcom in 2023

24:51 Ukraine & SatCom

26:45 Direct to cell technology

28:51 Starlink’s impact

33:22 Edge computing

35:30 Investing in SatCom

39:47 FCC and regulations

42:17 Predictions for SatCom in 2024

• Show notes •

Jack’s socials — https://twitter.com/JackKuhr

Rachael’s socials — https://twitter.com/RachaelZisk

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Pathfinder is shaking things up for the next two weeks with a special pod series on the State of the Space Industry. In each episode, you’ll hear from two members of Payload’s editorial staff on key trends, exclusive interviews, and insights shaping the industry. 

This week? Launch & OSAM, featuring Payload’s Managing Editor Jacqueline Feldscher and Senior Space Reporter Tim Fernholz. Highlights from the discussion include:

Launch

• Launch cadence + increasing demand
• Role of launch providers and competition
• Challenges including space debris and regulation
• Advancements in reusability

OSAM

• The OSAM chicken-and-egg problem
• The role of government partnerships and regulations
• Key technologies required for OSAM
• Recent developments and upcoming missions, including Northrop Grumman's MRV mission, Astroscale's ADRAS-J mission, and SpaceX's Starship refueling demonstrations

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). Be sure to check out the Italian Pavilion  in South Hall (Booth 603) during Space Symposium!

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & ITA Ad

01:35 - The state of launch in 2023

04:14 - Peter Beck & Rocket Lab

06:31 - Tory Bruno & ULA

11:43 - Tim Ellis & Relativity Space

14:09 - Make or break in launch

15:27 - Government’s perspective on launch outside SpaceX

17:46 - What Jacqueline is excited for in 2024

19:07 - Blue Origin & ULA

21:41 - Tim Fernholz!

22:28 - OSAM. What is it and what companies fall underneath the OSAM umbrella?

24:22 - Core capabilities

25:19 - OSAM market in 2023

25:59 - Challenges of building

27:10 - Gaps in technology

29:53 - Should startups be investing in OSAM technology?

32:21 - How integral is the government in developing OSAM?

34:13 - Who is setting standards?

35:42 - OSAM 1

37:56 - What Tim is excited for in 2024

• Show notes •

Jacqueline’s socials — https://twitter.com/jacqfeldscher

Tim’s socials — https://twitter.com/TimFernholz

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we explore the future of 3D metal printing and manufacturing with Erik Palitsch and TJ Ronacher, co-founders of Freeform, a pioneering startup aiming to redefine industrial-scale additive manufacturing. Both SpaceX alumni, Erik and TJ share their journeys from leading projects on the Merlin and Raptor engines to co-founding Freeform, where they’re using high-power lasers and real-time process control to create a new era of rapid, scalable 3D printing.

We dive into how Freeform’s approach is addressing longstanding challenges in the additive industry, from quality control to production speed. Erik and TJ outline their vision for Freeform as a “manufacturing as a service” model, where clients can access high-quality printed parts without the steep learning curve and costs of traditional additive systems. We also discuss:

• The engineering challenges they tackled at SpaceX and how that shaped Freeform’s technology and business model
• Freeform’s technology, including their real-time closed-loop process that enables unprecedented print speeds and precision
• Their vision for the “factory of the future,” where autonomous 3D printing facilities operate globally
• The role of 3D printing in off-planet manufacturing and its impact on space exploration

And much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:35 - TJ's background

02:15 - Erik's time at SpaceX before Freeform

07:25 - How has materials in 3D printing changed in the past 10 years?

12:27 - Manufacturing as a service and the tech at Freeform

18:16 - 3D printing vs traditionally manufactured parts

23:11 - What is the tech that Freeform is building?

32:45 - True factory scale 3D printing

37:10 - Traction beyond space

38:06 - What Freeform is printing today

38:41 - Revenue and customers

41:53 - Manufacturing capability today and in the future

43:51 - Advice for investors looking to invest in 3D printing

49:18 - Future of 3D printing

54:24 - What will off-planet 3D printing look like?

57:08 - Favorite stories from SpaceX days

60:47 - Milestones to look out for

• Show notes •

Freeform’s website — https://freeform.co/

Freeform’s socials —https://x.com/freeform_future

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week, we're going live from Austin, TX, at Payload’s inaugural event, “The Ultimate High Ground: The Role of Space in National Security,” held during SXSW. Our episode features a fireside chat with Dan Goldin, the longest-serving NASA Administrator, from April 1992 to November 2001. Dan is known for leading NASA’s resurgence during one of its most challenging periods following the Cold War. His tenure was characterized by the philosophy of "faster, better, cheaper," which established the foundation for the modern space industry.

We spend a considerable amount of time discussing Dan’s contributions outside NASA, including his tenure at TRW and his efforts at Cerberus, a leading private equity firm that is now heavily involved in aerospace and defense. Additionally, we explore:

• The next Sputnik moment
• Technology transfer between NASA and the DoD
• The challenges of the space industry today
• The opportunity in the space national security market

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Introduction

01:44 - Military and intelligence programs at TRW

03:49 - Potential unforeseen gaps in technology

06:35 - 1958 Space Act

10:17 - Life at Cerberus

14:12 - Common missteps from startups today

17:35 - Do startups understand physics?

19:29 - Overcrowding in parts of the market

21:18 - Where the opportunity is today

26:12 - National security…more than just weapons

28:54 - Directed energy

33:33 - What question is not being asked more often

35:19 - Cislunar space

38:24 - When will we land on the Moon?

38:50 - Are we underestimating or overestimating China's capabilities?

39:21 - When will we land on Mars?

• Show notes •

Dan’s’ socials — https://twitter.com/dansgoldin

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday

4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder podcast features Nate Hamet, cofounder and CEO of Quindar, a startup attempting to dramatically change satellite operations. Quindar's software suite simplifies satellite command and control, enhancing health, security, and connectivity management. 

With a rich background in satellite operations at notable companies like OneWeb and Orbital Effects, Nate's team uses their expertise to reduce human intervention and increase efficiency in satellite constellations. In addition, we discuss:

• Quindar’s origin story
• How mission management software simplifies satellite operations
• Fully autonomous satellite solutions
• The importance of space cybersecurity

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:22 - What is Quindar and what are you building?

03:14 - What is satellite command and control?

05:47 - Nate's background and how he started Quindar

10:04 - Why is cyber security important?

11:34 - How does the Mission Management Software simplify the operation of satellite constellations?

19:55 - Managing data

21:34 - How far away are we from fully autonomous solutions?

23:30 - How does Quindar make money?

25:08 - Use cases beyond space?

25:57 - Commercial and government traction

27:37 - What is Quindar's ideal customer?

29:14 - The onboarding experience

33:01 - Location and team

35:51 - KSAT integration

38:11 - Quindar's plan from recent funding

39:59 - What to look out for in the future

40:57 - The Star Trek vision

41:46 - What is Nate doing when he's not building Quindar?

• Show notes •

Quindar’s website — https://www.quindar.space/

Nate’ socials — https://twitter.com/NateHamet

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday

4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Did you ever think that solar power generation in space could be 10x cheaper, 20% more efficient, and extend operational life to over 50 years? Well, that’s what the Arizona-based startup Solestial believes it can achieve with its silicon cell technology. We bring in CEO and cofounder Stan Herasimenka for his first-ever podcast to discuss the unique challenges and differences between terrestrial and space solar cells, and the technological advancements his company is making to produce radiation-hardened, thin, and flexible solar cells for space use.

Stan and Mo also cover:

• Market potential for solar technology
• Reengineering long-established technology
• Solestial’s business model and scaling plans
• Future trends in space solar

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:36 - What are you building?

00:59 - What prompted Stan to start Solestial?

01:57 - Terrestrial vs extraterrestrial solar cells

05:10 - How long would a terrestrial solar cell last in space?

08:27 - Who are the main players?

11:02 - What is III-V?

12:25 - Supply/demand gap

16:03 - Core product offering

18:26 - What is the reason not to have a turnkey solution?

19:53 - Cost of activeness vs COTS

23:40 - Target cost of cells

24:30 - Why would a customer pay more for a premium solar cell?

27:37 - Self-curing radiation damage

30:52 - Perovskite cells

33:20 - Manufacturing and scaling

36:18 - Where is Solestial based?

37:01 - Customer traction

38:39 - Team makeup

40:18 - Financing plans?

41:51 - When will Solestial have their first array in space?

43:13 - What does Stan do when he's not talking about solar cells?

44:09 - Other companies Stan is excited about

• Show notes •

Solestial’s website — https://solestial.com/

Stan’s socials — https://www.linkedin.com/in/stan-herasimenka-5932561b/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday

4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week’s Pathfinder features Lori Garver, a pioneering force in the space industry known for her instrumental role in propelling NASA into the modern era of commercial spaceflight. The former Deputy Administrator of NASA joins us today to discuss how partnerships with private space firms helped to shift the landscape from government-dominated missions to a thriving commercial space sector. 

In addition, Lori and Mo discuss:

• NASA’s budget and priorities
• Timing of Artemis and Mars
• NASA as a Cold War instrument
• Much needed policy changes

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Introduction

01:00 - Commercial partnerships during Lori's tenure

05:55 - Why did you write your book?

08:29 - The COTs program

10:42 - Support for the Constellation program

12:44 - Is the SLS part of the future of Artemis?

15:40 - Feasibility of NASA's Artemis plan

19:00 - NASA’s CLPS program

22:40 - View on SpaceX's launch dominance

25:52 - Future of human spaceflight

27:05 - Does NASA risk losing relevance?

29:25 - How does great power competition affect NASA?

32:48 - Policies Lori is championing

34:14 - What prompted Lori to work in the industry?

38:40 - What Lori is working on today

45:33 - Viability of asteroid mining

49:18 - Lori's bets on next Moon/Mars landing

50:52 - What does Lori do for fun?

• Show notes •

Lori's book — https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Gravity-Quest-Transform-Launch/dp/1635767709

Lori’s socials — https://twitter.com/lori_garver

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday

4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

San Francisco-based venture capital firm, Bessemer Venture Partners, is diving into defense technology, with Payload securing the first interview to discuss the firm's new strategy with Partner Tess Hatch. Despite the firm's historical successes with space companies such as Terra Bella (formerly Skybox), Spire, and Rocket Lab, they are cautiously awaiting a new technological catalyst before making further industry investments.

Meanwhile, Tess has turned her attention to the defense sector highlighted in the firm’s recent Bessemer's defense tech roadmap. She highlights AI/ML solutions and autonomous systems as critical investment areas, aiming to influence the future of national security significantly.

Tess joins us to recount her transition from an aspiring astronaut to a deep tech investor. In addition, Mo and Tess discuss:

• Bessemer’s early space thesis
• A breakdown of defense tech
• The concept of “dual use”
• Tech shaping the future of national security
• Challenges to defense investing

And much, much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

02:15 - Tess's career arc

04:06 - Tess’s transition from engineer to investor

06:27 - High capex in deep tech investing

09:04 - BVP’s investment strategy

15:59 - Space industry today and future predictions

18:37 - New investors in the space industry

21:07 - A third catalyst?

23:41 - Bessemer's defense tech roadmap

26:28 - How does Bessemer differentiate itself

28:11 - How do you define defense tech?

30:43 - Concept of dual use

32:21 - Reality of dual use

35:12 - Challenges of defense tech investing

38:41 - Future opportunity in national security

40:53 - Liquidity in defense tech

42:48 - Who should partner with Bessemer?

45:08 - Favorite war movie/book

• Show notes •

BVP’s Defense Tech Roadmap — https://www.bvp.com/atlas/roadmap-defense-tech

BVP’s socials — https://twitter.com/BessemerVP

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Our guest this week not only has a PhD in theoretical astrophysics but is also a pilot, musician, entrepreneur, language enthusiast, and a thought leader on how humanity can create a better future for itself.  No, we’re not constructing a dating profile, but describing Casey Handmer, the founder of Terraform Industries, a startup focused on scaling technologies to produce cheap natural gas with sunlight and air. 

Today, Casey joins us not to talk shop about his company's innovations but to share his vast knowledge on a subject he's deeply passionate about—Starship, Starlink, and the future of space exploration. Casey has been a prolific writer on these topics, sharing his insights and analyses on his blog since first discussing Starship in 2019. He has a very clear message: the industry significantly underestimates what Starship is capable of and the impact it will have on society at large.

Additionally, Mo and Casey chat:

• The Artemis program and NASA’s future
• The role of Starlink in society
• Mars exploration and humanity’s future
• Energy production beyond fossil fuels
• The future of science fiction

And much, much more…this is one of the most special discussions we've had, so don't miss it.

This episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, software for complex engineering, testing, and operational procedures. Learn more at https://www.epsilon3.io/

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & Epsilon3 Ad

02:45 - Career arc and Terraform Industries

06:33 - Humanity will move beyond fossil fuels by 2040

09:33 - Everyone must read Casey’s blog

10:13 - Is Starship still misunderstood?

16:12 - In what ways does Starship challenge traditional design philosophies

19:33 - Launch capacity

22:25 - $10m launch costs

25:14 - Epsilon3 Ad Break

25:43 - HLS & why Artemis hasn't been redesigned

28:24 - Thoughts on Blue Moon

29:43 - Why does a non-Starship Artemis program not move the needle?

34:18 - Mars & NASA

36:47 - Is Mars a business?

37:55 - Startups building in this new regime

41:09 - Starship IFTs

42:36 - When will we see the first payload deploying Starship launch?

43:18 - Does the Starlink model work without Starship?

44:28 - Is the Falcon enough to replenish Starlink satellites?

45:24 - Will there be political support for a future with Starship?

52:05 - How will Starship affect the science fiction genre?

• Show notes •

Casey’s blog — https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/

Terraform’s website — https://terraformindustries.com/

Casey’s socials — https://twitter.com/CJHandmer

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Two weeks ago, we launched Payload Research, a new division within Payload dedicated to providing incisive, insight-driven analysis tailored for industry leaders and investors. Today, we welcome Jack Kuhr, the esteemed Research Director of Payload, to go under the hood of our new venture. We explore the motivations behind its inception and offer a glimpse into what the future holds. In addition, they discuss:

• The Starship Report: This is Payload Research's inaugural publication, offering comprehensive insights into SpaceX’s heavy lift launch vehicle
• SpaceX’s 2023 Financial Overview: An in-depth analysis of SpaceX's financial performance in 2023, including a detailed breakdown of its revenue and the methodology employed by our team

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:36 - Jack's history with Payload

04:14 - Why are we building Payload Research?

10:34 - The Starship Report

15:58 - When will we see Starship commercial payloads?

20:12 - Starship cost-analysis

27:35 - What is Starbase like?

30:13 - SpaceX’s 2023 financials

33:18 - Launch assumptions

34:52 - Starlink assumptions

39:38 - SpaceX’s Other revenue

42:44 - Payload's next research newsletter

43:18 - What should people expect from future Payload research editions?

44:50 - What is Jack looking forward to covering the most this year?

46:18 - How to sign up

• Show notes •

The Starship Report — https://payloadspace.com/starship-report/

Payload Research’s website — https://www.payloadspace.com/research

Jack’s socials —https://twitter.com/JackKuhr

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Our guest this week is Malory McLemore, the co-founder and CEO of Stell, an LA-based startup that is building workflow software to serve as the future data layer for hardware and industrials. Their platform enables complex, multi-company hardware development efforts to track engineering and compliance documentation, replacing traditional methods like Excel sheets and PDFs.

Malory shares her journey from being an aerospace engineer dealing with subpar software tooling to founding Stell. In addition, we discuss:

• Stell’s origin story and fundraising plans
• Differentiating engineering tools
• Apollo-era systems engineering
• The next generation of post-MBA graduates

And much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:48 - What is Stell?

01:44 - Malory's career arc in the space industry

05:19 - Why are  Harvard students becoming more interested in space?

06:37 - Malory's previous jobs that led her to Stell today

07:49 - How could aircraft like Boeing's latest be improved?

10:53 - How have companies operated in the past and why should they work with Stell?

12:38 - Current offerings and roadmap

14:19 - Stell's business model

14:55 - What does the ideal Stell customer look like?

15:50 - Stell's selling point

16:45 - How do you quantify money savings to a client

18:33 - Government clients

20:39 - How did Stella build the team

22:36 - Plans for expanding beyond aerospace

23:28 - How do you differentiate among other engineering management tools?

26:51 - Do you think that this looks from other companies, but we’re headed to start to look similar?

29:45 - Current fundraising plans

30:06 - Grand vision to investors

31:41 - What kicked off the growth of hard tech startups?

33:23 - What would Malory be working on if it weren't for Stell?

33:56 - Apollo-era management

37:26 - What does the startup community look like in Huntsville?

38:32 - Was building in LA the best decision you've made?

Stell's website — https://www.stell-engineering.com/

Stell's socials — https://twitter.com/stell_space

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Our guest this week, Tim Kienberger, has been at the forefront of the industry's evolution from large-scale satellite buses to the small satellite revolution. As the current CEO of LeoStella, a joint venture between Thales Alenia Space and BlackSky, he is helping the company redefine small satellite manufacturing.

In today's episode, Tim reveals insights into the production of small satellites and the unique challenges of managing a joint venture. In addition, we discuss:

• LeoStella’s origin story
• Cislunar spacecraft needs
• The impact of Starship on small satellites
• Scaling challenges of small sat startups

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Introduction

00:22 - Tim's career overview

02:40 - Thales/Blacksky JV

06:56 - Core offerings and customer makeup

09:01 - Current demand

12:19 - Product roadmap

14:03 - Capability needs from LEO to cislunar

17:53 - Government customers

19:50 - Balancing customization vs standardization

23:18 - Production hurdles

26:16 - Competitive landscape

27:36 - Challenges for new startups

31:32 - Impact of Starship on the small sat market

40:18 - Long-term funding needs

42:19 - What would Tim be doing if he wasn't in the space industry

• Show notes •

LeoStella's website — https://leostella.com/

LeoStella's socials — https://twitter.com/LeoStellaLLC

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

In this episode, Daniel Faber, CEO of Orbit Fab, a US-based company that is pioneering in-space refueling infrastructure, shares his journey from Tasmania to becoming a leader in the space economy's refueling efforts. Additionally, we delve into:

• Orbit Fab’s mission and services
• The need for refueling capabilities
• The economics of fuel depots
• Viability of asteroid mining

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:35 - Gas stations in space

01:44 - Daniel's background

05:49 - Origins of Orbit Fab

10:46 - Initial customer base

11:48 - The demo mission

13:05 - How does Orbit Fab make money today?

14:26 - Working with launch providers

15:25 - Structuring contracts

20:25 - Do small satellites need refueling?

23:02 - Contracting with the DoD

24:11 - Partnership with Astroscale

26:27 - Findings from the demo mission

27:54 - RAFTI standardization

29:10 - The inflection point for refueling

34:30 - The competition

35:57 - Fundraising environment

39:07 - Milestones investors should watch for

39:58 - Viability of asteroid mining

44:53 - What Daniel would be building if he wasn't building Orbit Fab

46:06 - Companies that excite Daniel

• Show notes •

Orbit Fab's website — https://www.orbitfab.com/

Orbit Fab's socials — https://twitter.com/OrbitFab

Daniel's socials — https://twitter.com/_DanielFaber_

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)