Indie Trends, Breguet, and a 2-Watch Collection for $50k
Monday, August 18, 2025 • Duration 52:13
We’re back with another audio chat, a podcast by any other name. This week, I’m joined by Brandon Moore, an editor at Watches by SJX based in Seattle. Brandon’s been an editor since 2018 and on forums longer than that. I particularly look to his opinions on independent and high-end watchmaking, but he’s got a keen eye and appreciation for watches of all kinds.
We discuss trends in independent watch collecting, the interest in hand-finishing, Breguet’s 250th anniversary releases so far, Urban Jürgensen, the LVMH watch prize, and close by building two-watch collections with $50k from our favorite releases this year.
Thanks for listening—I’ll do more regular chats throughout the rest of the year, so let me know what topics you’d like to hear more about.
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Live Chat + Q&A with Max Braun (Dealer, Hairspring Podcast)
Thursday, June 5, 2025 • Duration 45:46
For those who couldn’t join our May 2025 Q&A livestream, this is the recording with Max Braun. Max is a friend, dealer, and the co-host of the great Hairspring Watches podcast.
During our 45-minute chat, we talked about deals on the vintage market right now, Rolex Submariners, TAG Heuer and Formula 1 (and its impact on vintage Heuer), and a whole lot more.
Enjoy, and hope to see you in our next livestream! —Tony
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Watches & Wonders 2025: With The Enthusiasts + Photo Dump
For the second day of Watches and Wonders, I joined Stephen Pulvirent and Justin Hast of The Enthusiasts.
We discuss some of our highlights from the show, the vibe amid the general industry slowdown, and more. There’s Rolex, Nomos, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Cartier, and I pitch the guys on my idea of “opulent simplicity” from yesterday.
I’ve included a portion …
A Chat with William Massena
Tuesday, August 26, 2025 • Duration 51:34
This week, I’m joined by William Massena. Over 30+ years, William has worn just about every hat in the industry: He was an early pioneer of online forums as a moderator on TimeZone, served as managing director at Antiquorum during the auction house’s heyday, and has long been a collector with an appreciation for both vintage and contemporary indies. In 2018, William founded Massena LAB, a creative studio for collaborations. His latest collab with Vianney Halter called the Old Soul uses vintage Minerva movements.
We talk about what William’s collecting nowadays, the early days of watches on the internet, what’s changed most, whether there are too many brands, where Journe takes a sh*t, how to love watches and not brands, and then get into his latest collab with Vianney Halter (photos below).
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How to Collect Neo-Vintage Watches (Ben, Watch Brothers London)
Monday, September 15, 2025 • Duration 54:40
Last week, I sat down for a fun chat with Ben Dunn of Watch Brothers London. Ben’s a U.K. dealer focusing on complicated neo-vintage watches from the 1980s–2000s. Our conversation comes in two parts: First, we talk about how Ben’s grown Watch Brothers London since he left Facebook to become a full-time dealer in 2022. Ben’s always transparent about his business and even shares some of his numbers, which I appreciate—he’s not one of those dealers playing the fake-it-till-you-make-it game.
Then, we get nerdy about collecting neo-vintage watches. We talk Patek Philippe 3940, some of our other favorites—and least favorites—from the era, and how neo-vintage is different than other eras of collecting.
Thanks to Ben for joining; follow him on Instagram or visit his website. Also s/o to Tim Vaux who takes the photos.
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Microbrands, Frankenwatches, and What Even Is a Vintage Watch? | Q&A
Tuesday, October 7, 2025 • Duration 22:23
Good morning from New York, where I’m filming a “Masterclass” for Teddy Baldassarre’s updated website. In today’s newsletter: My complicated feelings on microbrands; vintage and modern (and the myth of ‘vintage’); GMTs under $30k, and more from last month’s Q&A.
🎧 I tried something new: This week’s Q&A is also available as an audio issue. It feels like a format that naturally lends itself to audio. Listen above or find it on Spotify / Apple / RSS.Let me know if you like the format, and I’ll think about using it for future newsletters.
📚 I’ve mentioned before that Rebecca Struthers’ Hand of Time is one of my favorite books about watchmaking. She recently published About Time, a children’s book on the history and science of time (ages 7–11). Dr. Struthers’ co-author is a physics teacher, and they’ve managed to make a complicated subject approachable and fun. Great for kids, and while, like me, you might be outside the recommended age range for this book, you’re certainly not above it. Also great to keep in mind as the holidays approach. Amazon | From the publisher.
ICYMI
Q: What are your thoughts on every microbrand coming onto the market? What space do these microbrands fill, and do you think these brands will survive such a harsh and competitive market? –Ron
A bit of a leading question, but it accurately captures my complicated feelings about many small or microbrands (not unlike ). I like many of their watches and have bought more than my share.
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Why do collectors have such a fetish for 'firsts'?
Wednesday, October 15, 2025 • Duration 16:05
Hello everyone. Like last week, today’s grab bag is also available as an audio issue. Listen above or find it on Spotify / Apple / RSS. It’s coming a little later because I saw Doechii on the first night of her Swap Tour here in Chicago. She’s awesome.
In today’s newsletter: Two ideas for indie watchmakers, when watch design changes behavior, why collectors have such a fetish for “firsts,” my favorite watch from Monaco Legend’s auction this weekend, and how to get banned.
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AHCI at 40. The AHCI (Académie Horlogère des Créateurs Indépendants) is a non-profit of independent watchmakers founded by Vicent Calabrese and Svend Andersen in 1985. To mark its 40th anniversary, Europa Star ran a great roundtable with 12 of its members, including FP Journe, Philippe Dufour, and the newest, Shona Taine. Interest in indies is still hot, but nowadays watchmakers also have all kinds of opportunities to showcase their work on Instagram or wherever else, and AHCI is looking for ways to stay relevant as an arbiter of real independence. Journe was particularly outspoken, offering two ideas:
* 🥇 Grand Prix de l’Academie Awards: This takes the idea of the GPHG, Louis Vuitton Watch Prize, or Cartier Prize for Watchmaking and flips it on its head. Journe suggests the Academy awards and recognizes large brands for achievements in watchmaking. He says that brands might sheepishly accept these awards, but would be delighted by the recognition. “We need to put the Academy back at the summit and reward industrial brands when they do a good job,” Journe adds.
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How to Retail Watches in 2025 (Steven Holtzman, CD Peacock)
Friday, October 17, 2025 • Duration 01:03:46
Not many people in watches have worked at brands, distributors, retailers, and even as watch liquidators.
Steven Holtzman is the Vice Chairman of CD Peacock, a retailer in the Chicago area that also operates in Miami. His first job was in sales for Gruen in the 1980s, slowly moving up to distribute higher-end brands. Most notably, he brought Roger Dubuis to North America in the 1990s, scaling it to a business that was doing $30 million in annual sales by the time he left in 2008.
From there, Steven founded Maîtres du Temps, a brand that created small series of watches with movements by independent watchmakers including Daniel Roth, Dubuis, Peter Speake, and Kari Voutilainen. Maîtres du Temps eventually folded, and in May 2021, Steven took over day-to-day operations at CD Peacock, an historic retailer that his father acquired out of bankrupty in 1993.
In our chat at CD Peacock’s store in Oakbrook, Ill., we talk about every aspect of the watch business Steven’s seen during his career, from growing Roger Dubuis during its heyday in the 1990s and 2000s to CD Peacock opening its massive new store in 2024. We discuss what it takes to be a watch retailer today. We also manage to break a little news about CD Peacock’s plans in the Miami Design District, which I think is indicative of where the industry’s headed.
We even talk about Steven’s time “discreetly” liquidating watches around the world. Honestly, we talked more about Steven’s career than I’d expected, and I didn’t even get to a lot of my questions about retail. Perhaps I’ll visit again for a part 2 sometime soon.
If you’re anywhere near Chicago, it’s worth visiting the CD Peacock Mansion. They rep 20 brands, have a sizable selection of pre-owned from Rolex CPO and other brands, and there’s a real bar on the second floor.
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What Wei Koh Wants from Independent Watchmaking
Thursday, November 6, 2025 • Duration 01:03:44
Wei Koh is the founder of The Rake and Revolution Magazine. This year, Revolution is celebrating its 20th anniversary. Wei is one of the smartest guys in media about watches. He can write 10,000 words about the constant-force remontoir (that’s actually readable) or capture the horological and historical importance of Patek Philippe’s entire line of perpetual calendar chronographs. One of my old favorites from Wei is a piece he wrote about visiting Frank Muller in Thailand, in which he swims into the ocean, voice recorder tucked beneath his hat, to document the story of the Crazy Hour (PDF below).
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Wei joined me to chat about 20 years in media; how things have changed since he started Revolution; we get into the current state of independent watchmaking; are all those internal angles missing the point, and what Wei wants to see from young independent watchmakers; is FP Journe the greatest watchmaker of all time? Then, we talk about his new eight-part docuseries about independent watchmaking, Man of the Hour. He tells some fun stories from the shoot involving a few of the most well-known indies, including what it’s like to live in the same apartment complex as FP Journe.
For more on Man of the Hour, visit its website, or as Wei says, shoot him a DM.
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That said, there are also a lot, perhaps too many, and I struggle with the fact that they’re often bringing together existing suppliers and components in different ways. No doubt, many of these microbrands do this while offering interesting designs or a unique perspective (Brew, Studio Underd0g). Some have even used this as a stepping stone to developing more interesting or complicated watches (Ming, Furlan Marri). Hell, Nomos started off using Peseux 7001s. The line between microbrand and independent is also increasingly blurred.
Still, I appreciate watches for their enduring quality, and wonder if some of these microbrands will live up to that standard. I wonder how many brands at the typical microbrand-focused show will be around for the next one. Watches used to feel like this escape from the fast consumerism we see in so many other categories, but no longer. But perhaps this also gives established brands too much credit??
I’ve bought a handful of these watches. Honestly, the only one that’s really stuck is an Oak & Oscar, and that’s largely because I feel a personal connection to O&O as a local Chicago brand I’ve followed for most of its existence.
Which gets to another reason why there are so many microbrands: We develop these personal connections for all kinds of different and perfectly valid reasons. Global supply chains and the internet make it a pretty viable business, and perhaps that’s just fine.
Q: I’m trying to add a GMT/dual time/world time to the collection, but struggling to find the right piece. Don’t want Rolex, but want something wearable that I can actually travel with and feel safe, new or vintage is fine, just not the same old GMT-Master. $30k budget. –Marc
I like the Parmigiani Tonda PF GMT Rattrapante at pre-owned prices right now (~$20k), a really subtle and different take on the GMT that’s easy to use. To me, the platonic ideal of a “travel time” doesn’t need to be taken off and set as you’re taxing on the runway. The 90s Royal Oak Dual Times (the original ref. 25730ST) should also slip in right under the budget—midsize proportions (36x8mm!) and practical complication, there’s nothing like it in the modern Audemars Piguet catalog. AP produced the Dual Time throughout the 90s, starting with the old-school tapisserie pattern but eventually transitioning to grand tapisserie.
It later added a larger 39mm, though I’m not sure if a Royal Oak is “safe,” depending on what you meant by that. The modern Vacheron Constantin Overseas Dual Time is also cool. The Lange 1 Time Zone, first introduced in 2005 and updated in 2020, is a bit larger, but an awesome watch on the secondary.
I’ll also add, and to further complicate my previous answer: If you just want to experiment, some microbrands do cool GMTs for cheap since flyer GMT movements have become so accessible: Lorier, Lorca, and Nodus come to mind.
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For complimentary tickets, register today and use promo code UNPOLISHED:
Q: I have more of a philosophical thought: We hear so much about the soul and beauty of vintage and the sterility of modern timepieces. Your most recent interview [with Ben Dunn] is a good example of this. But what is now vintage used to be modern. And what is now modern will someday be vintage. What are your thoughts about the progression of modern watches to vintage? –Eric
Q: What is your view on people only talking about mainly 60s–70s watches when it comes to vintage? Should someone who, for instance, collects TAG Heuers from the early 2000s be accepted as a vintage collector in the same way as someone who has Heuers from the 60s? –Patrick
It’s interesting to see how watches from the 1980s–2000s are now treated more like “true” vintage watches, with an emphasis on condition, originality, and other attributes important to collectors. This also means how we think about servicing them (or not), as what becomes more important isn’t the watch’s performance, but its condition and originality.
There’s this commonly parroted myth that vintage comes from the French for 20 (vingt). It’s not true, but provides a useful rule of thumb, even if I think the definition is more fluid and varies by brand.
For example, Rolex is the easiest as its modern era sees the advent of five-digit references that introduce sapphire crystals, glossy dials, white gold surrounds, and Luminova compounds. Meanwhile, Patek Philippe transitioned from engraved enamel to printed dials. That said, many of these watches, like the Patek 3940 or 3970, might be classics even if they’re not fully vintage yet.
More broadly, the 80s and 90s were defined by the widespread adoption of computers, CAD, and CNC, and watches produced using these tools can just feel different than what came before. These modern manufacturing techniques allow precision, which means tighter tolerances, more complications, and so on. Of course, future tech could do the same for future watches.
In the process of modern turning into vintage, there’s an important “filtering” process as collectors, enthusiasts, and archivists decide what’s important. Anyone with an eye towards documenting, preserving, and defining that history can be a “collector.”
It seems to take about 20 years (a generation) for this process to happen, and it’s no coincidence that there’s been a broader return to 1990s/early 2000s culture the past few years. It’s fascinating to watch it happen in real time as we have been with the neo-vintage era in watches. Some watches like the Breguet ref. 3350 tourbillon are deemed classics while many others wallow away in relative obscurity.
Q: What really is a “Frankenstein” watch? Levels, types, and can any still be worthy of love? I ask because although swapping out a basic dial for one of a rarer model is obviously egregious, the rest, short of swapping out whole movements seems less obvious. In any proper service, parts will routinely need replacing, and hands are routinely replaced. So what is “all original”? Is there a normal amount of replacements where a watch is not Frankenstein or at least still a loveable one? –Paul
A question that will be debated as long as we’re collecting watches or similar objects. In general, dial, case, and movement being born together is the most important inquiry, but even then, it gets tricky.
In an article on restoration, I spoke with Eric Ku and Beau Goorey of LA Watch Works. Beau, LAWW’s watchmaker, said he doesn’t get hung up on replacing what he called “general wear items” like crowns or crystals, “as long as they’re genuine Rolex parts.” That’s a good guiding principle, though it gets tricky in the details.
Omega and Universal Geneve collectors love to see the engraved logo on an original crystal. If you’re looking at First Series Rolex Daytona, you better know if it has the original millerighe pushers.
Originality falls on a spectrum that looks something like this:
* Original/factory. A watch as it originally left the factory.
* Period correct.Non-original parts that are generally accepted as correct given a watch’s age.
* OEM-authentic parts. Has different or service parts that come from the original manufacturer, but that would not have been seen on that particular watch as it left the factory.
* Non-authentic parts. Not made by the original manufacturer.
Most of us would probably draw the line for “Frankenwatch” somewhere in #3, but where exactly is personal. For example:
* I recently wrote about those rare Universal Geneve grey prototype dials, which are generally believed to be loose dials placed in cases. Some of you thought it looked cool, others screamed Frankenwatch.
* Earlier this year, we covered a Rolex Daytona 6240 with a white Paul Newman dial from Rolex CPO. It’s generally believe that dial isn’t period correct for this reference. It also had later pushers, crown, and bezel, even if they were all authentic service Rolex parts.
Once a watch gets too many components that are either service parts or not correct, it can start to look like Frankenstein’s monster. Instead of just calling a something a Frankenwatch though, it is important to understand what components fall where on the spectrum, so you can decide if that matters to you.
I generally believe that every watch has a price, but if it’s not put together correctly, a watch’s price may not be greater than the sum of its parts.
Q: I’d love to know a bit more from behind the scenes of Unpolished: (1) Each newsletter, do you have a dedicated time to write everyday? Photography wise, how is the balance between getting the “ideal” shot IRL when the collector or brand is also present, in the sense of: should we chat or should I take pics? I imagine that scenario being quite tricky at events and releases in particular. –Paulo
Totally self-indulgent, but here we go. I work from home, and do my best writing first thing in the morning after walking the dog. I’ll often change locations in the afternoon, I like being in public where I feel like people are judging me if something’s on my screen that seems unproductive. The afternoon is often spent on more administrative tasks. I’d bet it takes three days to put together 2 newsletters/week. The rest of the week I work on bigger projects for the future, or for other publications and clients.
(2) has changed a bit. Nowadays, Instagram emphasizes video so much, getting the best photo is less important than getting a short clip that can be used for a video when you’re in a pinch. So I emphasize trying to talk to people more now and make an actual connection. The newsletter also lends itself to this: I can get better newsletter content from a conversation if I ask interesting questions that no one else is, and sometimes I even like the “unpolished” feel of a mediocre photo in the newsletter.
A newsletter is somewhere between a long email to friends and a short essay, and sometimes images can fit that brief, too. That said, sometimes I do care about the images, like last week’s visit to Glashütte.
CLOSING THOUGHT
👉 Dr. Helmut Crott was awarded the Gaïa Prize, an annual award honoring contributions in horology by the International Museum of Horology. From his acceptance:
“My wish is that the watch industry learns to resist certain temptations inherent to the luxury sector—temptations that, in the pursuit of higher sales, blur the distinction between consumer products and exceptional objects.”
* 🦭 Poinçon de l’Academie: Riffing on the Geneva Seal or Qualité Fleurier, Journe suggests a certification for watches that meet criteria set forth by the Academy. For example, to be an Academy member, a watchmaker has to personally develop and make at least 60% of their watch.
They’re both good ideas. (1) Maybe the best marketing the Lange Datograph ever got was when we learned Philippe Dufour wears the pink gold version—it’s even called the Dufourgraph. (2) And an Academy Seal could bring some clarity or transparency around who’s actually doing what (or not) in the world of indies. Of course, there’s the old adage that “when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure,” so the exact parameters of such a seal would need to be carefully considered, but AHCI’s got the minds for that. Here’s the entire discussion with Europa Star.
💭 When watch design changes your behavior. Jason Fried is a tech founder and also well-known as a watch collector. He recently wrote about when design drives behavior. Sometimes, design is what something looks like; sometimes, it’s how something works. But, Jason says, the most interesting designs change your behavior. Take the Lange 1’s power reserve:
Its 72-hour power reserve isn’t linear. It takes just one day for the indicator to hit roughly the halfway point. This makes it seem like the mainspring is unwinding faster, encouraging its owner to wind the watch more frequently. That means it’s less likely to run out of power or hit the low end of its power reserve when watches are typically less accurate.
Are there other examples of watch designs that actually change your behavior? The power reserve on the FP Journe Chronometre Souverain might be similar: It’s inverted to show “hours since last wind,” a nod to old marine chronometers and perhaps a subtle nudge to its wearer.
PRESENTED BY THE COCONUT GROVE WATCH & JEWELRY SHOW
The inaugural Coconut Grove Jewelry & Watch Show, taking place November 14-16, 2025, at The Hangar at Regatta Harbor, will feature a global roster of renowned antique, vintage, and estate dealers. It’s organized by the same folks who put on the Original Miami Beach Antique Show, one of my favorite shows every year. Join fellow watch enthusiasts and uncover exceptional and rare vintage and estate watches that can’t be found anywhere else. This three-day shopping event is your invitation to indulge!
For complimentary tickets, register today and use promo code UNPOLISHED:
The Fetish for ‘Firsts’
The other day, I was listening to one of my favorite watch podcasts, Hairspring, minding my own business and enjoying the nice fall weather. The two hosts were discussing the large and increasing premium between a first and third series Patek 3940 perpetual calendar, and then I heard myself being put on blast!
See, I’d reached out to my buddy Erik of Hairspring for quotes for a GQ article a few months back. Erik gave some extremely wise thoughts that didn’t fit into that silly GQ pitch, but I’d been sitting on them to include in a future newsletter instead.
They were addressing the question of whether the premium is justified on a first series 3940 that sells for, say $120k, and a later third series that sells for half that. Here’s what Erik told me a couple of months ago:
“There are always the ‘special’ variants of storied references, and I believe most newer collectors undervalue them. For example, if you’re looking to buy a Patek 3940, you can get a third series for $60k. Or, go all the way to a Beyer first series where the most recent result was CHF 292k in 2023. Newer collectors look at that delta and think, ‘a small change in color and signature can’t possible justify a 5x value?’
The logical fail I see often is newer collectors anticipating that others will think this way too, and so eventually the normal variants have to catch up, right? This is almost never the case if you study prior examples. The value of the first series continues to climb at a rate much faster, and much further away from the third series. And there’s a whole section of buyers who only consider the most special or rare version of any given watch and are willing to pay what it takes to acquire one. That premium is unintuitive, but across Patek Philippe, Rolex, and nearly everywhere, it multiplies over time rather than evening out.”
He’s right: There’s basically an entire segment of collectors who only want the “best” or the first or something. This has been very obvious with the Patek 3940 and 3970 the past couple of years, where prices for early examples have grown much faster than on later series. It’s the same for A-Series AP Royal Oaks, brass Journes, or closed-caseback Lange 1s.
But it usually takes time for collectors to make these distinctions. In fact, if you use my market cap analysis, I might argue that early series 3970s/40s are still undervalued.
To take another example, the market is learning to value “Pre-A” or “Pre-Series” Breguet watches from the 80s at a premium. These are watches from before 1987 when Breguet introduced serial numbers ending in letters (A, B, C, etc.), and watchmaker Daniel Roth was still with the brand. It makes these Pre-A watches historically important for Breguet enthusiasts, not to mention rarer.
In our conversation about neo-vintage watches, Ben Dunn mentioned that the market isn’t always as sophisticated at making these distinctions. It makes sense: Breguet is a much smaller, niche concern than Patek Philippe.
But I always caution against pursuing rarity for its own sake. Eventually, it has to come back to the watches. The dial of a first series 3940 just looks a lot different than a later one. The subdials were hand-carved and harder to produce. This means production is much lower, but if you look at them, you’ll also understand: a first series 3940 still has vestiges of handmade watchmaking.
And if the market asks for a huge premium between two things, and you really, truly, just don’t get it? You might be able to save yourself some money.
But remember:
The Roundup
* Notes on Monaco Legend’s auction this weekend. Here’s the catalog, usually the most fun curation for those who love to peruse vintage. The glossy black dial Rolex 6238 is perhaps my favorite watch of all time. You’ll find 6238s with glossy or matte dials, but the early glossy ones are something. This one’s not perfect—MLG calls its slight spotting a “stardust effect,” but it’s special (Lot 84, est. €200–400k). For those who claim to love shapes, how about this Baume & Mercier car watch? With Swiss tariffs still in place, it’ll be interesting to watch the auction season, and to what extent American bidders stay on the sidelines (I’d bet a lot…). I also really like this multiscale Vacheron 4072 chronograph that Andrea Parmigiani showed off as “his” a couple of years ago.
* Pre-owned is The Story. Brands and retailers both want in, all because it’s how customers, especially young customers, shop now. According to the annual Deloitte Swiss watch industry report, 40% of Millennials or Gen Z plan to buy a pre-owned watch next year, and the main reason is because they’re cheaper. Here’s the full Deloitte report:
* How the Swiss Army Knife is dealing with tariffs. “It’s a Swiss icon that is inseparably tied to the promise of ‘Made in Switzerland’ quality,” Carl Elsener, CEO of Victorinox, said. “Moving its production abroad would undermine the very essence of our brand.” (NY Times)
* Rolex filed a trademark for Padellone, the collector-given nickname for its vintage triple calendar moonphase ref. 8171, Italian for frying pan. I’m not sure how I feel about brands claiming IP ownership over collector-created terms, but it’s most likely a move to protect a word associated with the brand for future heritage-driven marketing or campaigns.
* Remember that antitrust case against Hermes for its Birkin bag allocation? It was dismissed. “It may be, as the plaintiffs suggest, that Hermès reserves the Birkin bag for its highest-paying customers, but that in itself is not an antitrust violation,” the judge wrote. It’s since been appealed, but for now, a small win for luxury brands that thrive on exclusivity.
Finally, I haven’t felt a need to have a terms of service beyond Substack’s standard policy, but the comments from last weekend’s Berneron review illustrate what I’d consider a violation. If you say someone has a “character flaw” or call people liars, among other things, you’ll get banned for at least a month. But I thought this went without saying!
I’ll be back in your inbox with a podcast interview later this week. Get in touch:
. Please subscribe to the feed because eventually I’ll stop sending out separate newsletters for episodes!
(Btw, I have no commercial relationship with CD Peacock. I’m not even a client! We‘re friendly and I simply think Steven has a unique perspective on the watch industry.)
Get in touch:
* tony@unpolishedwatches.com or reply to this email
