Explore every episode of the podcast Under The Steeple

Sharing space with other churches, non-profits, or ministries is a powerful ministry strategy, especially for churches in major cities, where space is at a premium. But unwritten rules and damaged property can easily create chaos.

Matthew Dillingham and Marie Burrus break down why clear boundaries protect your ministry. Learn the essential legal clauses, financial risks, and management strategies required to share your facility safely and generously. 

Key Takeaways

• Know Your Church's "Why": Define your primary goals upfront, whether focused on financial sustainability, community outreach, or Kingdom partnership.

• Clarity Is Kindness: Written facility-use agreements eliminate assumptions, protect relationships, and set both parties up for success.

• Cover Baseline Costs: Set rental rates that reliably cover utilities, building wear-and-tear, and required staff hours.

• Understand Legal & Tax Risks: Avoid public "Space for Rent" signs or unvetted for-profit leases that could trigger unexpected tax implications.

Suggestions to Include in Your Facilities Agreement

• Approved rooms, dates, and exact usage hours

• A/V and facility equipment usage limits

• Damage liability and facility cleanup expectations

• Insurance, staffing, and security requirements

• Indemnification clauses to protect both parties from liability

• Payment terms and strict invoicing schedules

• Clear exit and cancellation clauses for both parties

Resources 

• Church Tax & Law: https://www.churchlawandtax.com/ 

• Virtual Executive Pastor: https://www.virtualexecutivepastor.com/ 

Just for Fun: "Dance Little Jean," by Nitty Gritty Dirt Band https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS56zyv0bIE 

When church numbers don't add up, is it a simple mistake, administrative mismanagement, or actual fraud?

Matthew Dillingham and Marie Burrus dive into the murky waters of church finances, unpacking why "asking for forgiveness instead of permission" doesn't work with the IRS—or your congregation.

From rogue credit cards and missing coffee receipts to the legal boundaries of designated funds, this episode breaks down the essential internal controls every ministry needs to stay transparent, ethical, and out of trouble.

In This Episode:

• Audits and Financial Reviews: Why churches need a professional audit every three years, an annual financial review in between, and how to build those costs directly into the budget.

• Fractional Bookkeeping: How churches can afford professional financial accounting instead of relying on unqualified volunteers and why it matters.

• Designated vs. Restricted Funds: The legal line between operational spending and designated giving—and why changing a donor's intent requires a clear paper trail.

• The Itemized Receipt Mandate: What the IRS actually requires for meal and travel expense reporting, plus practical ways to enforce receipt policies with staff.

• The Transparency Dividend: How financial clarity directly correlates with increased congregational trust and donor giving.

Marie Burrus and Matthew Dillingham launch the inaugural episode of “Under the Steeple,” introducing the podcast’s goal of making church leadership and operations simple for busy ministers. 

They discuss how pastors and church leaders can feel overwhelmed when everything seems important. They emphasize prioritization (important vs. urgent), accepting that some “rubber balls” can be dropped, and delegating without feeling like a failure. 

Matthew stresses that offering clarity (by defining work/volunteer roles, job descriptions, policies, and lines of authority) is a kind of pastoral care.

They warn against a pastor “hero” mindset that leads to burnout and recommend Kelly Kapic’s devotional, “You Were Never Meant to Do It All,” to learn more on this topic.

Resources:  “When Everything is Important, Nothing Feels Sustainable” www.virtualexecutivepastor.com/post/when-everything-is-important-nothing-feels-sustainable

The Eisenhower Matrix: https://www.eisenhower.me/eisenhower-matrix/

”You Were Never Meant To Do it All,” by Kelly Kapic 

Bonus Extras 1099 Versus W2? https://www.virtualexecutivepastor.com/post/1099-or-w-2-what-churches-need-to-know-especially-for-musicians

King Ranch Casserole Recipe: https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/king-ranch-chicken-casserole

Pear Salad Recipe: https://southernbite.com/southern-pear-salad/