Trust Control is a documentary podcast series about the weird yet surprisingly expansive world of trust measurement from investigative journalist and researcher Kate Kaye. Based on nearly a year of deep research and interviews with a wide variety of sources, the show takes listeners on a journey from the post-World War II Cold War period into the early days of the Internet through to today's agentic AI era. Trust – how it is measured, by whom and for what purposes – is the thread that carries us along throughout. Episodes dig into measurement of trust in AI and automation; media, news and information trustworthiness; the emerging realm of human and AI agent "worker" trust scoring, U.S. military and corporate management funding and influence in trust measurement, and more. Part historical documentary, part philosophical analysis, part provocative (and admittedly hokey) satire, Trust Control explores an emerging trust paradigm happening just below the surface of our digital lives… bubbling up to the surface of our real ones.
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7.0 The Trust IS a Feeling (and Closing Thoughts) Episode
Season 1 · Episode 8
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 12:19
Trust Control is the culmination of more than 10 months of human, non-AI assisted exploration and process. It is the product of deep research rabbit hole digging; journalistic interviews; idea organizing; contemplation and articulation; writing and re-writing; re-re-writing; microphone jabber; digitized audio manipulation; more contemplation and articulation; re-re-re-writing and re-recording; and...well...you get the picture. The project took many twists and turns along the way. In this episode, you'll hear a bit about Trust Control creator Kate Kaye's process and some of the overarching ideas that emerged from inside her (humble, fallible and messy) human brain.
In this episode:
The power and meaning of trust as unarticulated alchemy
Why and how Trust Control evolved as an artistic and philosophical endeavor
Unexpected trust measurement patterns discovered
A look ahead to full-length Trust Control interview episodes and related work
6.0 The New Trust Paradigm Episode: Scoring Trustworthiness of Human and AI Agent "Workers"
Season 1 · Episode 7
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 57:57
TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling.
6.0 The New Trust Paradigm Episode: Scoring Trustworthiness of Human and AI Agent "Workers" It's starting to happen at work and inside a blockchain-based online dispute resolution platform: A new trust paradigm is unfolding in which the technical trust measures needed by computers and bots are beginning to seep into human ideas of trust. Some people believe we're already on a trajectory toward continuous, machine-readable trust scores and "continuous proof of humanity." Indeed, some say that "trust is no longer a feeling."
Business and tech consultancies like McKinsey and Company say AI agents are workers, just like human employees. And that means humans will be forced to prove their trustworthiness using the same computational trust signals bots like Eudamon, Reefwatcher and the other AI agents featured in the first episode of Trust Control are measured by. Indeed, the lines are blurring. In this episode:
Agentic trust scoring startups
The demand for continuous, machine readable trust scoring of agents and humans
Questioning assumptions of transparency-based blockchain trustworthiness
The future of AI agent juries and judges in blockchain dispute resolution "courtrooms"
People Featured in this Episode:
Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator
Michael Fauscette, Founder, CEO and Chief Analyst of Arion Research
Cemre Çise Kadıoğlu Kumtepe, Assistant Professor, Department of Information and Technology Law, Ankara University, Türkiye
by Morton DeutschJournal of Conflict Resolution1958
5.0 The Measuring Trustworthiness of Media Episode (Part Two: The Limits of Computational Trust)
Season 1 · Episode 6
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 39:07
When Brooklyn, New York photographer and entrepreneur Tiffany Walling McGarity crafted stunning portraits of friends using the very old tintype method, she wanted to preserve them, and the provenance of the images, in digital form. But she discovered that a technical method promising trustworthiness through a computational trust approach deemed her work "invalid" and exposed the downsides of technical trust approaches that reinforce existing institutional power structures. In this episode:
Trustworthiness metadata, media trust signals, and "content credentials"
News industry assumptions about technical media trustworthiness and and authenticity measures
What computational trust measures miss that news journalism consumers care about
The push for a zero trust-style distrust-first approach to media and news and who gets left out
The blurring lines of technical and human trust
People Featured in this Episode
Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator
Tiffany Walling McGarity, Photographer, Co-founder and CEO of Metapyxl
Tessa Sproule, Director of Metadata and Information Management at the English division of CBC Radio Canada
Lynn Walsh, Journalist, Assistant Director of Trusting News, Chairwoman of the Society of Professional Journalists' Ethics Committee
(translation: We have witnessed it, we can prove it.) Agence France Presse video 2025 (Also see By John Wihbey Tech Policy Press 2025 The North State 2026 LinkedIn Post Erik Svilich, Encypher CEO 2026
4.0 The Measuring Trustworthiness of Media Episode (Part One: Propaganda and Journalism's Trust Assumptions)
Season 1 · Episode 5
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 45:58
TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling.
4.0 The Measuring Trustworthiness of Media Episode (Part One: Propaganda and Journalism's Trust Assumptions)
During World War II, the time Carl I. Hovland spent evaluating the effects of U.S. propaganda films on U.S. Army recruits inspired his research measuring information and communication trustworthiness and helped propel the field. Since that time, people have designed all sorts of methods and models in attempts to gauge trustworthiness of media and information. This is the first part of a two-part episode exploring measurement of trustworthiness of media, information, communication, news and even art. In this episode:
U.S. Army propaganda films and analysis of "the sleeper effect" on perception of information source trustworthiness
Early Cold War inspired U.S. military industrial complex and Rockefeller Foundation funding of trust measurement amid the Red Scare and McCarthyism
Models and methods for scoring and even color-coding trustworthiness of information and news
The historical links between "measuring" the aesthetic value of music and art and measuring media trustworthiness
Why some trustworthiness measurement methods may not cure news journalism's low trust problem
People Featured in this Episode:
Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator
Tosan Atele-Williams, Academic Associate in the Faculty of Business and IT and Computational Trust Researcher at Ontario Tech University
Lynn Walsh, Journalist, Assistant Director of Trusting News, Chairwoman of the Society of Professional Journalists' Ethics Committee
3.0 The History (and Residue) of Measuring Trust in AI Episode
Season 1 · Episode 4
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 01:08:13
TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling.
3.0 The History (and Residue) of Measuring Trust in AI Episode Roger C. Mayer and his fellow researchers introduced an influential trust model in 1995 in the Academy of Management Review. The impetus for their work? Corporate managers worried they were losing control of workers amid big changes. There were more people of color and women entering the workforce, plus workers upheaval in emerging self-directed teams could not be monitored as they once were. Little did Mayer and his co-authors James H. Davis and F. David Schoorman know that decades later their ABI (Ability, Benevolence and Integrity) trust model would become heavily influential in trust in AI related research. This episode of Trust Control is all about the historical ideas and "residue" that perpetuate today throughout trust measurement. Why do we see the same old trust measurement ideas, applied in questionable ways?
In this episode:
Corporate motivations for measuring worker trust and trustworthiness
Why the Mayer ABI model may not be right for AI
How antiquated and sometimes poorly-tested ideas get baked into today's trust measurement
Under- and over-trusting AI
W- E- I -R -D history (Western Educated Industrialized Rich Democratic) of trust measurement
Military funding of trust measurement from the Cold War to today
Featured in this episode:
Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator
Roger C. Mayer, Professor of Leadership in the Poole College of Management at North Carolina State University
Bran Knowles, Professor of Sociotechnical Systems at Lancaster University, UK
Gale Lucas, Director of the Technology Evaluation Lab at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies, Research Associate Professor in USC's Departments of Civil Engineering, Computer Science and Psychology
Meredith McNeil, Senior Research Scientist and Team Leader of the Genome to Phenome Team at Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia
Andreas Duenser, Research Scientist at Data 61, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia
by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Proceedings of the Extended Abstracts of the CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems2025 by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Frontiers in Artificial Intelligence 2025 by Sandra HartNASA Human Performance Research Group1986(also see ) by Pooya Adami, et al including Gale LucasAdvanced Engineering Informatics2023by Morton DeutschJournal of Conflict Resolution1958
2.0 The Measuring Trust in AI and Automation Episode
Season 1 · Episode 3
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 50:46
TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling.
2.0 The Measuring Trust in AI and Automation Episode
When trust researcher Gale Lucas measured construction workers' trust in a demolition robot they had to use on the job site, the study had support from the demolition robot's manufacturer and got funding from the U.S. Army Research Office. But why? Who is trust measurement done for and who is it done...to? In this episode focused on measuring trust in AI and automated systems, we'll dig deeper into how and why some measurement of trust in AI happens.
In this episode:
Measuring trust in a demolition robot and a genetic data tool
Measuring worker trust in automation and AI
Using physiological data like heart rate and brain activity data to measure trust in AI
Why AI transparency and transparency regulations don't necessitate trust or trustworthiness
Government and military funding of AI and automation trust measurement
Featured in this episode:
Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator
Gale Lucas, Director of the Technology Evaluation Lab at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies, Research Associate Professor in USC's Departments of Civil Engineering, Computer Science and Psychology
Andreas Duenser, Research Scientist at Data 61, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia
Bran Knowles, Professor of Sociotechnical Systems at Lancaster University, UK
Meredith McNeil, Senior Research Scientist and Team Leader of the Genome to Phenome Team at Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia
Key References (Mostly) in Order of Appearance
PART ONE
Participants matter: Effectiveness of VR-based training on the knowledge, trust in the robot, and self-efficacy of construction workers and university students by Pooya Adami, et al including Gale LucasAdvanced Engineering Informatics 2023 by Michael Kosfeld, et al Nature 2005 in VR by Kunal Gupta, et al including Andreas Duenser Proceedings of the 25th ACM Symposium on Virtual Reality Software and Technology 2019 Meta 2026 (See EU AI Act Transparency Reports/2026-Muse Spark) Meta 2026 by Dhruv Mehrotra and Dell Cameron Wired 2026 by Bran Knowles and John T. Richards FAccT '21: Proceedings of the 2021 ACM Conference on Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency 2021
PART TWO by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Proceedings of the Extended Abstracts of the CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems2025 PART THREE by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Frontiers in Artificial Intelligence 2025
1.0 The Intro Episode
Season 1 · Episode 2
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 01:03:31
TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling.
1.0 The Intro Episode
When self-described "trust scientist" Stephen Marsh first introduced the concept of mathematically modeling and computing trust in an influential 1994 thesis paper, he had an inkling that computerized agents would need "computational trust." But back then did the quirky "nano-farmer" ever envision that decades later AI agents with funny names like Eudamon and Reefwatcher would discuss trust on a social network for bots?
This introduction to Trust Control lays some groundwork about concepts discussed throughout the show including trust measurement and proxies for measuring trust and trustworthiness, zero trust and computational trust, numerical and quantified trust measures and scores, digital data use and impacts, and more.
In this episode:
How computers trust and the origins of "zero trust"
Why we measure…well…anything
Can you snort trust? (Unexpected methods and proxies used to measure trust and trustworthiness)
Putting a number on trust with trust scores
The human side of trust that numbers miss
Pushback on measuring trust for computers
· Featured in this episode:
Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator
Tosan Atele-Williams, Academic Associate in the Faculty of Business and IT and Computational Trust Researcher at Ontario Tech University
WarīNkwī Flores, Kara-Kichwa Citizen of the Andean Karas, Citizen of the Kichwa Andean-Amazonian People of Ecuador and Land Trustee, Kinray Hub Indigenous Research and Development Primary Investigator, Graduate Research Associate at University of Arizona
Gale Lucas, Director of the Technology Evaluation Lab at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies, Research Associate Professor in USC's Departments of Civil Engineering, Computer Science and Psychology
Andreas Duenser, Research Scientist at Data 61, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia
0.0 The Welcome to Trust Control Episode
Season 1 · Episode 1
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 09:01
TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling.
0.0 The Welcome to Trust Control Episode
This is the Trust Control show trailer. You'll hear about what's in each full-length episode and hear some examples of the voices and sometimes silly satire featured throughout the show. It's a short episode. Give it a try!
In this episode you'll hear descriptions of:
Episode 0.0 The Welcome to Trust Control Episode
Episode 1.0 The Intro Episode
Episode 2.0 The Measuring Trust In AI and Automation Episode
Episode 3.0 The AI Trust Measurement History and Residue Episode
Episode 4.0 The Measuring Media Trustworthiness Episode (Part One: Trustworthy Propaganda and Journalism's Trust Assumptions)
Episode 5.0 The Measuring Media Trustworthiness Episode (Part Two: The Limits of Computational Trust)
Episode 6.0 The Scoring Human and AI Agent "Worker" Trustworthiness Episode
Episode 7.0 The Closing Thoughts and What's Next Episode
Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.
Fake ads and silly satire were voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth
Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon:
D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion, and drum machine
Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.
Fake ads and silly satire was voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth
Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon:
D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine
Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.
Fake ads and silly satire was voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth
Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon:
D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine
Information Trust Model by Tosan Atele-Williams and Stephen Marsh Cognitive Systems Research 2023
Towards a Computational Model of Information Trust by Tosan Atele-Williams and Stephen Marsh Trust Management XII International Federation for Information Processing (IFIP) Advances in Information and Communication Technology (see p. 124) 2018
Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.
Fake ads and silly satire was voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth
Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon:
D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine
Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.
Fake ads and silly satire was voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth
Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon:
D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine
Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.
Fake ads and silly satire were voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth
Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon:
D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine
Bran Knowles, Professor of Sociotechnical Systems at Lancaster University, UK
Sunday political talk show parody John McBlather voiced by Kyle Huth Eudamon, Claudia, Reefwatcher and Guardbot AI agents voiced by Kate Kaye and Kyle Huth
Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.
Fake ads and silly satire were voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth
Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon:
D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine
