In-depth conversations about how to help individuals and communities thrive after Complex Trauma. In a modern world beset by trauma and a legacy of suffering, conflict and disconnection, healing trauma can serve as a vehicle for personal and social transformation. Interviews with mental health and other helping professionals who are using the NeuroAffective Relational Model® (NARM®), as well as other prominent trauma specialists, will highlight the current efforts to address the legacy of childhood, relational, cultural and intergenerational trauma. These leaders in the Trauma-Informed Care movement will guide listeners through the diverse ways they are supporting individuals, couples, families and communities in order to actualize Post-Traumatic Growth. Whether you are a healthcare professional, an educator, a parent, a public policy maker, a trauma survivor, or someone interested in personal healing and social justice; this podcast will provide you with a map for increased resiliency, greater health outcomes, healthier relationships, personal growth and social change through transforming trauma. Hosted by the Complex Trauma Training Center.
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What Good Psychotherapy Looks Like With Dr. Jonathan Shedler
Episode 143
Wednesday, September 11, 2024 • Duration 01:02:08
On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes back Dr. Jonathan Shedler, renowned psychologist, author, consultant, researcher, and clinical educator. In their conversation, they are delving deeper into the elements that make up good psychotherapy and the importance of connection between therapist and client. Dr. Shedler and Emily Ruth also explore critical flaws in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), how modern social subcultures provide a disturbing camouflage for disassociation, and the three pillars of an effective therapeutic working alliance.
About Jonathan Shedler:
Jonathan Shedler, PhD, is an American psychologist known internationally as an author, consultant, researcher, and clinical educator. He is best known for his article The Efficacy of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy, which won worldwide acclaim for firmly establishing psychoanalytic therapy as an evidence-based treatment.
Dr. Shedler’s research and writing are shaping contemporary views of personality styles and their treatment. He is author of over one hundred scientific and scholarly articles, creator of the Shedler-Westen Assessment Procedure (SWAP) for personality diagnosis and clinical case formulation, and co-author of the Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual (PDM-2 and forthcoming PDM-3). He has more than 25 years of experience teaching and supervising psychologists, psychiatrists, and psychoanalysts.
Dr. Shedler lectures internationally, leads workshops for professional audiences, consults to U.S. and international government agencies, and provides expert clinical case consultation to mental health professionals worldwide. He is a Clinical Professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) and a faculty member at the San Francisco Center for Psychoanalysis.
SPACE is an Inner Development Program of Support and Self-Discovery for Therapists on the Personal, Interpersonal, and Transpersonal Levels offered by the Complex Trauma Training Center. This experiential learning program offers an immersive group experience designed to cultivate space for self-care, community support, and deepening vitality in our professional role as therapists. Learn more about how to join.
The Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC) is a professional organization providing clinical training, education, consultation, and mentorship for psychotherapists and mental health professionals working with individuals and communities impacted by Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and Complex Trauma (C-PTSD).
CTTC provides NARM® Therapist and NARM® Master Therapist Training programs, as well as ongoing monthly groups in support of those learning NARM. CTTC offers a depth-oriented professional community for those seeking a supportive network of therapists focused on three levels of shared human experience: personal, interpersonal & transpersonal.
The Transforming Trauma podcast embodies the spirit of CTTC – best described by its three keywords: depth, connection, and heart - and offers guidance to those interested in effective, transformational trauma-informed care.
Creating SPACE for Self-Discovery and Community Support for Therapists
Episode 142
Saturday, September 7, 2024 • Duration 44:12
When was the last time you took a break from learning new professional skills and, instead, carved out space to pursue self-discovery and community support?
On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes back the faculty of the Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC)––Brad Kammer, Stefanie Klein, and Marcia Black––to introduce SPACE, an innovative inner development program for therapists debuting in early 2025. SPACE supports therapists on three levels of the human experience: the personal, interpersonal, and transpersonal.
Brad, Stefanie, and Marcia guide you through the intention of the program, as well as its structure, highlighting the themes and what participants can expect to gain from each session. They also share insights into how their own struggles and learning over their long careers as therapists helped them become more present, authentic, and effective therapists, and inspired their creation of SPACE.
When we think of space, we may think of exploration into outer space. What CTTC's SPACE program offers is exploration into our inner space: “It's [an] invitation to have a new relationship to our own inner world as a therapist.”
Brad Kammer, LMFT, LPCC, is the Training Director and Senior Trainer for the Complex Trauma Training Center. Brad is responsible for the creation of the CTTC professional development programs, including working with Dr. Laurence Heller in developing the NARM® Therapist and NARM® Master Training Programs offered through CTTC. Brad also guides the mentorship programs involving CTTC faculty, training assistants and participants; the diversity, inclusion and belonging (DIB) efforts; and is the executive producer of the Transforming Trauma podcast. Brad has a passion for cultivating a professional learning community that provides ongoing training opportunities and mentorship to a diverse group of mental health professionals in their work with complex trauma. Brad is also the co-author of
The Power of Creative Expression in Healing Trauma with Jeanette LeBlanc
Episode 133
Wednesday, May 15, 2024 • Duration 50:23
Telling our story––to a trusted friend, a therapist, or ourselves––is a continuous unfolding. Each layer shed is an opportunity to re-engage with the past and assess its significance on the present. If the subject matter includes trauma, the process of exposure requires extra care.
On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth is joined by the inimitable writer and writing coach Jeanette LeBlanc. The pair explore what it means to "write your way through" trauma by examining the narratives we create.
About Jeanette LeBlanc:
Jeanette LeBlanc is a writer, self-published author, teacher, and motivational speaker. She guides humans seeking permission to stop seeking permission along their journeys to increased sovereignty, truth, and bravery, using their stories of lived experiences as vehicles to expand into authenticity, courage, and expression. As a facilitator, coach, and guide, she has directly led over 800 brave humans (thousands more via her social media presence) on the journey toward a life of exploration and fulfillment. Jeanette, queer and single mama to two delightfully unruly grown daughters, is the author of You Are Not Too Much | Love Notes On Heartache, Redemption, and Reclamation.
Using NARM to Decrease the Stigma of Dissociative Identity Disorder with Erin Lewis
Episode 43
Wednesday, June 2, 2021 • Duration 47:58
“I have recently started sharing my own personal journey with DID to fight stigma and to advocate that we deserve to be treated like people as well.” - Erin Lewis, NARM Therapist
Clinical Mental Health Counselor Erin Lewis is a trauma therapist from North Carolina who specializes in Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder.
Erin herself has been treated for DID and is committed to promoting education and supporting the needs for traumatized individuals, including those with DID. Her mission is to further treatment across the US in terms of how we view and treat DID.
She is a strong proponent for using NARM in her efforts. Erin not only wants to help others who are impacted by Dissociative Identity Disorder, she wants to change the stigma and educate those who might not otherwise know about it, including medical and mental health professionals.
Erin, who recently completed the Level 2 NARM Therapist Training, describes how the NARM framework for understanding complex trauma is so helpful in working with individuals with DID. She has been integrating NARM with Internal Family Systems (IFS) in her practice. Erin has studied other clinical theories and approaches and feels strongly that many miss the mark. She shares that she really appreciates how NARM addresses consent, specifically how NARM starts sessions with inquiring about what the client wants for themselves.
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At the NARM Training Institute, we’re excited to unveil a new video series we’re launching this month in the NARM Inner Circle online program.
Over the course of the next year, the focus of Senior Faculty Brad Kammer’s demonstration sessions will be on NARM and DID. Erin has made herself available to demonstrate how NARM can be applied in working over multiple sessions with a client with DID. The June 2021 NARM Demo is the first in a series of these NARM demos with Erin and Brad that will continue in the Inner Circle every other month this year.
To celebrate our growing NARM international community, we’re offering a special 50% discount for new annual members of the Inner Circle online program. For those interested, go to to sign up and use the checkout code: -- offer available until June 30th, 2020.
Healing Complex Trauma Through Music with Nick Larson of Proxima Parada
Episode 42
Wednesday, May 26, 2021 • Duration 43:29
“Music definitely opened up my heart and I started to actually feel things. The next thing I know, I’m using music to make sense of my experience.” - Nick Larson
Sarah talks with musician Nick Larson, California-based songwriter, musician, and member of the band Próxima Parada. He uses his experiences growing up in dysfunction and working through trauma to create uplifting music that promotes healing.
They discuss the stigmas that surround therapy, familial and intergenerational trauma, vulnerability, reconnecting to our hearts, and the role music can play in the process of healing trauma. Nick hopes listeners feel encouraged “to give themselves permission to use music, poetry, or whatever outlet that may be, to use their suffering and trauma as fuel for creating art, beauty, and something meaningful for them.”
So much of what Nick shares aligns with NARM, and Sarah reflects that what Nick describes is a process of using self-shaming and self-rejection to shut oneself down in order to survive. These adaptive survival strategies, though life-saving as children, become obstacles as we move into adulthood. Nick reports that going to therapy, and learning a new way of relating to himself, was a game-changer. Through therapy and through his music, Nick has learned how to reconnect to himself.
Through the pandemic, while touring and playing shows has not been possible, Nick has focused on what is available to him, and has taken the time to write songs -- more than thirty of them. Proxima Parada self-recorded a new album, “Second Brother” which will be available in August 2021.
Nick Larson is a songwriter, musician, and member of the band Próxima Parada who uses his experiences growing up in dysfunction and working with trauma to create uplifting music that promotes healing. Born and raised in California, Nick currently lives in San Luis Obispo.
The Brain and Body Budget with Neuroscientist Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett
Episode 41
Wednesday, May 5, 2021 • Duration 52:06
“...think about what it means to be human, and what kind of a human you really want to be.” -- Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett
Our host, Sarah, is joined by neuroscientist Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett. Initially working as a clinical psychologist, Lisa went on to study emotions and how our brains work, asking questions about the neuro-biological basis for mental and physical health.
Lisa has written two books: The Secret Life of the Brain, about how emotions are made, and her newest book, Seven and Half Lessons About the Brain, a book of essays. She describes the essays as “neuroscience nuggets to live a different life, a better life, or maybe be happy with the life that you have.”
Since the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM) is informed by the latest findings within neuroscience, and particularly in the areas of attachment, emotions and trauma, Lisa’s work has much to contribute to more effective clinical interventions. Core to both of Lisa’s books is her assertion that “the most important job of our brains is to run a budget for our bodies.” Similar to the concept of Self-Regulation, she describes, “your brain didn’t evolve to think and feel and see…it evolved to control your body.”
Lisa names that knowledge about our brains gives us more choices and options, as well as increased “responsibility” for ourselves. This responsibility aligns with NARM and the concept of Self-Agency. NARM also aligns with Lisa’s research, that though we cannot change the past, we can change how we relate to it. Lisa closes by sharing the key invitation from her book, “to think about what it means to be human, and what kind of a human you really want to be.”
About Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett
Lisa Feldman Barrett, PhD, is among the top one percent most cited scientists in the world for her revolutionary research in psychology and neuroscience. She is a University Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University, with appointments at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital.
In addition to the books Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain and How Emotions are Made, Dr. Barrett has published over 240 peer-reviewed, scientific papers appearing in Science, Nature Neuroscience, and other top journals in psychology and cognitive neuroscience, as well as six academic volumes published by Guilford Press.
ACEs, Developmental Trauma, and Chronic Illness with Veronique Mead
Episode 40
Wednesday, April 21, 2021 • Duration 50:06
“Once we understand [how adverse childhood experiences impact our development]… it removes blame and shame and judgment because it’s not something we’ve actually done.” - Veronique Mead
Our host Sarah Buino is joined by somatic therapist Veronique Mead, a former practicing physician and assistant professor of family medicine.
For 20 years Veronique has been researching and integrating science with her personal journey of chronic fatigue syndrome, finding powerful evidence of the connection between childhood adversity and chronic illness. Veronique’s findings align with the growing body of research about the impact of Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) on our health.
As Veronique and Sarah explore the topic of developmental trauma and its impact on long-term health, they find much overlap between the way Veronique frames her understanding and the NARM model. Both perspectives are based in a non-pathologizing orientation and view symptoms as intelligent, survival responses to environmental failures.
Veronique and Sarah conclude the episode discussing the beauty in understanding and recognizing our own trauma and adversity experiences, and how they affect us personally.
Veronique closes with her own feelings of hope: “Once we understand [how adverse childhood experiences impact our development]…it removes blame and shame and judgment because it’s not something we’ve actually done…If we can shift the perception of threat that’s gotten caught...it then gives us all these tools to work with that may really contribute to a much higher, greater capacity for healing and improvement...Then there may be a whole lot more encouraging, hopeful, empowering things we can do.”
About Veronique: Veronique Mead was an Assistant Professor of Family Medicine and practicing physician when she decided to change careers and retrained as a Somatic Trauma Therapist. For the past 20 years she has been integrating the science with her personal journey of gradual recovery from disabling chronic fatigue syndrome into a new model for making sense of chronic illnesses of all kinds.The research explains how effects of trauma are not psychological as is still often mistakenly believed. She shares the science on her blog, Chronic Illness Trauma Studies.com.
Sulha, Humanization and Trauma-Informed Social Activism with Adar Weinreb
Episode 39
Wednesday, April 7, 2021 • Duration 45:45
“If we want to be able to change the world, it comes down to humans changing themselves.” - Adar Weinreb
Host Sarah Buino interviews Adar Weinreb, a social activist in Israel who runs a grassroots project called Sulha, which comes from the Arabic word for “reconciliation” and “to make peace”. Their goal is to create an inclusive community of people from all sides of the ideological spectrum who can engage in nuanced dialogues on important issues, transform the way people communicate, and inspire real-world action.
Adar focuses his activism on understanding the challenging dynamics within the Israeli and Palestinian communities in order to build bridges of understanding between the two communities.
Adar aligns with a NARM-informed perspective in that he works to not take sides between the two sides of the conflict, and works to hold increasing complexity and the uncertainty and distress that goes along with that. He shares, “I'm not making a comparison between injustices. It's simply a recognition that at the end of the day, the people on both sides are harmed from this conflict. And as a humanist, I approach it as valuing all life of human worth.”
Similar to the way NARM perceives how trauma creates objectification and dehumanization, Adar’s work focuses on the elements required for mutual recognition of humanization and supporting the process of intersubjectivity.
Adar sees two sides of the same coin of activism: personal responsibility and systemic change. Adar and Sarah agree that by understanding psychological processes like complex trauma, and how we can work together to address complex trauma, we can learn to listen to each other, humanize each other, and ultimately can become more effective social activists.
About Adar:
Adar Weinreb is an Israeli-American working in blockchain technology. He dedicates his free time to social activism, primarily building bridges between Israelis and Palestinians. Adar is the host of a YouTube show called Sulha.
To read the full show notes and discover more resources visit
NARM, Cross-Cultural Healing and The Natural Self with Adam Tanous
Episode 38
Wednesday, March 24, 2021 • Duration 34:39
“To help people come back to their natural self; which means to be calm, to be connected to the heart, [and to have] good health.” - Adam Tanous
Brad Kammer, NARM Training Director, welcomes Adam Tanous, a therapist and facilitator who lives in Haifa, Israel. Adam works with clients in Arabic, Hebrew and English, and has a unique perspective as a trauma-informed provider who is half-Palestinian, half-Polish and living in Israel.
Adam joins Brad to discuss differences and similarities between the ways that Palestinians and Israelis approach spirituality, address intergenerational trauma, and the potential role of NARM in support of personal and cross-cultural healing.
Adam has a unique perspective as a trauma-informed therapist that is Palestinian by background that lives within Israel and works closely with Israelis and Palestinians alike. Brad inquires into how Adam sees that a trauma-informed lens can help us to understand the long-standing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and “what might be stuck there.”
Adam describes his understanding that despite the intergenerational trauma, despite the engrained survival patterns that many people are living through, and despite not having leadership in their countries that are actively interested in healing, true connection and transformation is still possible. As he states: “I believe if every person will take the decision to [face their] inner war, this is the only thing that can bring peace here.” This is the NARM principle of self-agency in action.
Adam shares his passion to continue spreading NARM throughout the Arabic-speaking world, and supporting individuals and groups that may not otherwise receive such support, in order to heal personal and societal patterns that are built upon unresolved developmental trauma. Adam hopes that more and more people will discover that “new answers [can] be revealed, that you have no idea such answers could exist inside you.”
About Adam:
Adam Tanous is a therapist and facilitator who accompanies people through self Conscious processes using Focusing, Meditation, Mindfulness and Breath-Work. In addition to guiding workshops and lectures on the subject, Adam has 13 years of experience providing therapy. He’s learned many modalities including Rebirthing, Focusing, Shiatsu, Energy Therapy and, of course, NARM.
NARM and Healing Complex Trauma within Native Communities with Trilby Kerrigan
Episode 37
Wednesday, March 10, 2021 • Duration 36:31
“Cultural traditions are on the forefront of wellness, for Native people — and for all people.” - Trilby Kerrigan
Trilby Kerrigan, a NARM-trained Behavioral Health Therapist at a Tribal health clinic in Northern California, is a member of the Karuk Tribe of California and is deeply committed to supporting community reconnection through education and treatment of complex trauma.
Sarah and Trilby discuss historical, intergenerational, and cultural trauma, and ways to support healing of individuals, families and communities. They share how the reconnection to oneself is at the core of the healing process, and how Trilby finds the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM) to be a powerful approach that can lead to significant shifts for individuals and within Tribal communities.
Trilby describes her journey of becoming a therapist as “non-traditional”, but meant to be. In her thirties, Trilby was inspired by her children to go to college and pursue a Master’s degree in Social Work. Trilby wanted to find some way to promote healing within her local Tribal communities. She shares that Native communities have some of the highest health disparities, lack social services, and have experienced not only extensive historical trauma, but face ongoing trauma. While there are clinics established to support Native clients, Trilby says, “I feel like having a Native professional therapist was a missing piece in the community.”
Specifically for Native communities, Trilby dreams of trauma education at a community level. For other therapists, Trilby dreams of more clinicians becoming trained in NARM and bringing these powerful tools back to their communities and clients, just as she has done. For us all, Trilby leaves listeners with one parting thought: “Humanity is really made to care for one another.”
About Trilby:
Trilby is a member of the Karuk Tribe of California and has been residing in Mendocino County for the past ten (10) years. She has been working in the helping profession for the past twenty (20) years and behavioral health is where her heart lies. She’s currently working as a Medical Social worker/Behavioral health Therapist at Consolidated tribal health.
Stefanie Klein, LCSW, is the Assistant Training Director for the Complex Trauma Training Center. Stefanie is also a NARM® Master Therapist, Consultant and Trainer. She previously taught the Level 1 NARM Online Basics Training and is involved in many aspects of supporting the development of the Center and its programs. Her focus as Assistant Training Director is co-creating and guiding CTTC’s Training Assistant Program. She is inspired by the mentorship model of supporting mental health professionals in bringing healing to individuals, groups and communities impacted by complex trauma. She also enjoys the training participants use their professional learning as a framework to create healthier and more sustainable relationships to their own lives.
Marcia Black is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and CTTC Faculty Committee member. As a NARM® Senior Training Assistant, Marcia has a passion for mentoring students and Training Assistants, and nurturing the growth of the community of graduates committed to ongoing learning. Marcia is also a NARM Master Therapist and has been in private practice for over 40 years in SF and the East Bay, specializing in treating complex and developmental trauma, and other psychological conditions. Coming from a background in Attachment, Relational and Intersubjective approaches, as well as experience as a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and SE Assistant, Marcia finds the NARM model offers an invaluable and inspiring contribution to understanding and approaching the psychotherapy process, not only in working with C-PTSD but also more broadly. Marcia’s mentorship is based in a relational approach that invites an exploration into the therapist’s inner experience and growth, alongside that of the client’s. Marcia is excited about supporting ongoing training, consultation, and mentorship in her role at CTTC.
SPACE is an Inner Development Program of Support and Self-Discovery for Therapists on the Personal, Interpersonal, and Transpersonal Levels offered by the Complex Trauma Training Center. This experiential learning program offers an immersive group experience designed to cultivate space for self-care, community support, and deepening vitality in our professional role as therapists. Learn more about how to join.
The Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC) is a professional organization providing clinical training, education, consultation, and mentorship for psychotherapists and mental health professionals working with individuals and communities impacted by Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and Complex Trauma (C-PTSD).
CTTC provides NARM® Therapist and NARM® Master Therapist Training programs, as well as ongoing monthly groups in support of those learning NARM. CTTC offers a depth-oriented professional community for those seeking a supportive network of therapists focused on three levels of shared human experience: personal, interpersonal & transpersonal.
The Transforming Trauma podcast embodies the spirit of CTTC – best described by its three keywords: depth, connection, and heart - and offers guidance to those interested in effective, transformational trauma-informed care.
The Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC) is a professional organization providing clinical training, education, consultation, and mentorship for psychotherapists and mental health professionals working with individuals and communities impacted by Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and Complex Trauma (C-PTSD).
CTTC provides NARM® Therapist and NARM® Master Therapist Training programs, as well as ongoing monthly groups in support of those learning NARM. CTTC offers a depth-oriented professional community for those seeking a supportive network of therapists focused on three levels of shared human experience: personal, interpersonal & transpersonal.
The Transforming Trauma podcast embodies the spirit of CTTC – best described by its three keywords: depth, connection, and heart - and offers guidance to those interested in effective, transformational trauma-informed care.
The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
Among her many accomplishments, Dr. Barrett has testified before Congress, presented her research to the FBI, consulted to the National Cancer Institute, appeared on Through The Wormhole with Morgan Freeman and The Today Show with Maria Shriver, and been a featured guest on public television and podcast and radio programs worldwide. She is also an elected fellow of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences and the Royal Society of Canada.
The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
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