Explore every episode of the podcast Topline

What should founders and operators prioritize when the market swings 6% in a day? In this episode, Sam, Asad and AJ break down the fallout from historic tariff whiplash, trillion-dollar market swings, and the signals that separate resilient companies from risky bets. They debate:

• Defensive moves vs. offensive plays: When to cut costs, when to lean into growth, and why “profitable efficiency” is the new mantra.
• Customer psychology in chaos: Why “delay” is the word of the year—and how to combat it.
• The global ripple effect: How geopolitical instability impacts hiring, pricing, and even brand perception for U.S. companies abroad.
• AI, offshoring, and variable costs: Tactics to future-proof your team and margins.

Plus, live data from Pavilion’s pulse survey reveals how 56% of companies are already adjusting 2025 forecasts—and why the CEOs argue volatility isn’t going away. Whether you’re debating layoffs, M&A, or just how to sleep at night, this episode is your survival guide."

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Key Moments:

[01:19] – Market Volatility & Whiplash

[07:07] – Defensive Strategies for Volatile Times

[31:36] – Customer Psychology: Fighting "Delay" Mindset

[47:01] – People Strategy: Building a Resilient Team

[57:52] – Offensive Plays: When to Attack

[01:05:41] – Wins & Fails

Most SaaS companies don’t fail because they grow too slowly—they fail because they grow too fast and ignore the warning signs.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, the team engages with Michael Dzik, an operating partner at Radian Capital. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience in the B2B technology sector, discussing the challenges and strategies for companies at different stages of their growth. Key topics include identifying growth stall points, the importance of product flexibility, the role of customer discovery, and best practices in pricing and packaging. Mike emphasizes the need for continuous innovation and reveals how Radian Capital supports companies through various investment approaches. Additionally, Mike recommends notable books he is currently reading, such as 'Blood Meridian' and 'The Mosquito'.

Key Moments:

00:00 — Introduction to Top Line Podcast

00:45 — Spotlight on Michael Dzik

02:21 — Radian Capital's Investment Strategy

06:05 — Challenges and Solutions in Vertical SaaS

19:36 — Insights on Pricing and Packaging

21:59 — Book Recommendations and Closing Remarks

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

In this episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ sit down with Ben Kus, Chief Technology Officer at Box, to unpack how AI is reshaping enterprise tech—from the seismic shift to cloud-native infrastructure to the rise of AI agents that collaborate across platforms. We dive into the realities of leading through volatility, why AI adoption is moving faster than past platform shifts, and how enterprises can navigate the “FOMO” of generative AI without sacrificing trust. Plus, Ben’s take on the future of software engineering, the myth of “non-technical founders,” and the books that keep him thinking ahead.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Key Moments:

[01:14] – Meet Ben Kus: Box’s AI Visionary

[05:26] – Leading Through Volatility: COVID, ZIRP, and AI’s Sudden Rise

[11:57] – Why AI Adoption Is Moving Faster Than Cloud or Mobile

[17:05] – Data Security in the Age of AI: Box’s Guardrails

[24:17] – AI Agents: The Next Frontier (or Hype)?

[31:41] – Open vs. Walled Gardens: The Future of Enterprise Platforms

[38:45] – Is Software Engineering Still a Valuable Skill?

[46:33] – Stagnation, Patience, and the Long Game

Centralize's Co-Founders Rachit Kataria and William Wang tackle one of the most common sales challenges: deals stall when teams fail to connect with the right stakeholders.

Their solution? Visualizing relationship networks to identify gaps, leverage extended connections, and ensure engagement with decision-makers. Listen to this week's episode to learn how to turn relationship intelligence into a competitive advantage in high-stakes sales.

3:10 - Why deals are won at the individual level, not account level

5:30 - Common multi-threading challenges in complex sales

7:15 - Visualizing relationship networks to identify gaps

9:40 - Leveraging extended connections to reach decision-makers

12:05 - Balancing feature richness with user adoption

14:30 - Key takeaways for sales leaders

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Why do so many sales hires fail? In this episode, Ben Tagoe, CEO of Objective Management Group, breaks down the three critical components when assessing sales hires: fundamental selling skills, sales-specific beliefs, and mindset. Discover how bringing science to the art of sales talent development can dramatically reduce costly hiring mistakes.

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Many companies hit a growth ceiling—not because of a lack of ideas, talent, or market opportunity, but because they lack operational rigor. In this episode, we sit down with Anna Talerico, CEO of Corporate Finance Institute (CFI), to unpack how she tackled this challenge head-on.

Anna shares her journey of stepping into a successful yet “execution-challenged” organization and the hard lessons she learned in implementing structure, accountability, and speed. She reveals why traditional operating systems weren’t enough, how she introduced company-wide sprints to drive alignment, and the key frameworks that finally got her team rowing in the same direction.

Join Chargebee at Beelieve in San Francisco on April 8th & 9th and London on May 8th. Use the code PAVILION for a free ticket.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to CFI and Anna Talerico

(02:58) - Anna's Journey: From Bootstrapper to CEO

(05:52) - Operational Rigor: The Need for Structure

(09:02) - Establishing an Operating System

(11:56) - The Pillars of an Effective Operating System

(14:59) - Implementing Sprints for Alignment and Focus

(18:05) - Maintaining Momentum and Accountability

(20:53) - Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Snipd CEO Kevin Smith shares how his team navigated the challenge of monetizing their app after realizing they couldn’t rely on investor funding and were headed toward bankruptcy. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Kevin shares the emotional highs and lows of launching Snipd’s monetization strategy, handling user backlash, and questioning whether they made the right move. He also reveals the unexpected moment that reassured him they were on the right path and how Snipd turned a tough challenge into a sustainable business.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Snip and Its Features

(02:47) - Facing Financial Challenges as a Startup

(06:12) - Transitioning to a Freemium Model

(08:57) - User Reactions to Monetization

(11:52) - Finding Validation Through User Feedback

(15:05) - Lessons Learned and Future Outlook

(17:49) - Final Thoughts and Recommendations

When does healthy competition cross the line into corporate espionage? In this episode, we dive into the explosive saga unfolding between HR tech giants Rippling and Deel. What started as a high-growth race has spiraled into lawsuits, spy allegations, and one of the most bizarre B2B scandals in recent memory — complete with honeypots, toilet phones, and Slack search histories. But beyond the drama, this story reveals deeper truths about culture, leadership, and the risks of growing at all costs. We unpack what really happened, why it matters, and how every tech company should take note.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Topline Podcast

(01:30) - Birds and Neighbors: A Lighthearted Start

(04:12) - Corporate Espionage: The Rippling and Deal Saga

(11:08) - The Dark Side of Competition

(17:38) - Personal Experiences with Corporate Espionage

(24:04) - The Impact of Reputation on Employment

(30:06) - Crisis Communication Strategies

(34:17) - Navigating Modern PR Strategies

(37:12) - The Talent Wars: Headhunting and Recruitment Dynamics

(39:42) - The Impact of M&A on Employee Wealth

(41:44) - The Wiz Acquisition: A Case Study in Market Dynamics

(46:47) - LinkedIn's Scraping Controversy and Its Implications

(52:19) - The Future of LinkedIn and Creator Dynamics

In this milestone episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ reflect on how they’ve grown as leaders, how their perspectives have evolved, and what lessons they’ve learned along the way. We discuss the increasing difficulty of leadership in volatile times and why mental resilience is more critical than ever. From the exhaustion of constant adaptation to the importance of maintaining optimism, we explore the realities of leading through uncertainty and why community—rather than isolation—is the key to enduring these challenges. Thank you for being a listener.

Thank you to everyone who has supported Topline on the way to our 100th.

Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - Celebrating 100 Episodes

(03:00) - Reflections on Longevity and Health

(05:46) - Navigating Economic Volatility

(09:03) - Mental Health and Leadership

(11:49) - Lessons from the Past Episodes

(15:07) - The Impact of External Factors on Business

(18:00) - The Role of Community in Times of Change

(20:47) - Communication Strategies in Uncertain Times

(23:49) - Embracing Individuality in Business

(27:06) - Forecasting in a Volatile Environment

(35:16) - Navigating Personal Health Amid Market Volatility

(38:08) - The Outlook for 2025 and 2026

(41:52) - Investment Opportunities in Times of Crisis

(44:34) - The Importance of Community and Connection

(50:25) - Personal Growth and Leadership Evolution

(01:01:59) - Memorable Conversations and Reflections

In this Topline Spotlight episode, Demetra Anagnostopoulos, CCO at SurePeople, shares insights on navigating a critical shift in SurePeople’s Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) from serving large enterprises to targeting startups. Demetra dives into the challenges of aligning customer success processes, redefining customer journeys, and ensuring her team has the skills to manage diverse expectations. Demetra emphasizes the importance of avoiding organizational silos, fostering cross-team collaboration, and leveraging data-driven approaches.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction

(04:59) - Navigating Innovation and Market Changes

(10:55) - Customer Success and New ICP Challenges

(15:35) - Leveraging Data for Team Dynamics

(18:39) - Inspirational Resources and Closing Thoughts

AI is revolutionizing the way revenue teams operate, but how much of the hype is real? In this episode of Topline, Sam, AJ, and Asad are joined by Kyle Norton to dive deep into how AI is actually being used in go-to-market strategies. They explore the balance between centralized AI tools and individual adoption, the impact of AI on productivity, and whether AI is leveling the playing field or widening the gap between top and bottom performers. The conversation also touches on the evolving role of ARR in a world shifting toward usage-based pricing, the importance of execution as a company’s true competitive advantage, and how leadership teams can effectively communicate vision and strategy without falling into bureaucratic traps.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
(02:46) - Personal Updates and Market Reflections
(05:58) - The Impact of AI on Work
(12:32) - Operationalizing AI in Business
(17:57) - Balancing Centralization and Individual Creativity
(22:44) - Quantifying AI's Impact
(26:57) - Deep Research and AI Applications
(33:14) - The Future of ARR and Revenue Models
(40:26) - Understanding Usage-Based Pricing
(43:10) - Valuation and Revenue Streams
(46:05) - Communicating Business Value
(49:47) - The Role of Values in Organizations
(56:30) - Balancing Structure and Flexibility
(01:01:44) - The Importance of Operating Systems
(01:07:25) - Personal Motivations and Chips on Shoulders

The AI market is noisy, but real business value is hard to prove. In this episode, Alon Talmor, CEO of Ask-AI, tackles the biggest challenge in AI adoption—demonstrating measurable ROI. He shares why many AI solutions fail to justify their cost, how Ask AI approaches value-driven AI, and what businesses should consider before investing.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Alon Talmor and Ask.ai
(02:50) - The Evolution of AI and Its Impact on B2B Customer Experience
(06:04) - Challenges in Differentiating AI Solutions
(08:54) - The Importance of Value Selling in AI
(11:48) - Measuring ROI and Productivity in AI
(14:58) - Future Trends in AI and Customer Experience
(18:09) - Consolidation of Tools and Final Thoughts

In this episode of Topline, we sit down with Ryan Burke, VP of Sales at CyberArk (former VP of Sales at Zilla Security), to dive deep into the $175 million acquisition of Zilla. Ryan shares what it’s really like to navigate an exit in today’s market—from the unexpected nature of M&A deals to the grueling due diligence process and the tough decisions that founders and executives face. We also explore the evolving cybersecurity landscape, why big platforms are scooping up smaller companies earlier, and how AI is both a threat and an opportunity in the industry. Plus, we discuss the power of trusted networks in sales, whether the "Rolodex hire" is making a comeback, and how partnerships are shaping go-to-market strategies.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - The Exciting Exit of Zilla Security

(07:40) - Navigating the Acquisition Process

(16:19) - The Impact of Market Conditions on Startups

(25:04) - Sales Team Dynamics During Transitions

(32:32) - Trends in Cybersecurity and AI's Role

(35:20) - Navigating Cybersecurity Challenges

(38:38) - Mergers and Acquisitions in Cybersecurity

(40:32) - The Impact of AI on Cybersecurity

(43:14) - The Role of Trusted Networks in Sales

(49:06) - Innovative Partnerships and Their Importance

(01:00:01) - Effective Communication in Professional Settings

How do you build a revenue engine that doesn’t just generate pipeline—but generates the right pipeline? In this episode, Kyle Lacy, CMO of Jellyfish, shares how his team tackled one of the biggest challenges in B2B go-to-market: pipeline predictability.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Kyle explains why traditional metrics like Stage 1 pipeline weren’t cutting it, how Jellyfish revamped its approach with deeper segmentation and leading indicators, and the impact of launching a Pipeline Council to align sales and marketing around quality, not just volume. Sam, Asad, and Kyle also touch on the biggest forecasting mistakes GTM teams make, why tracking pipeline per rep, source, and channel is a game-changer, how AI is reshaping marketing strategy, and what it takes to be a great CMO in 2025.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Top Line Spotlight

(02:20) - Overview of Jellyfish and Its Purpose

(04:15) - Addressing Challenges with Leading Indicators

(09:50) - The Shift to Marketing for Engineers

(11:42) - The Role of AI in Modern Marketing

(16:22) - Inspiration and Closing Thoughts

Is outbound sales really dead, or are we just doing it wrong? In this episode of Topline, AJ and Asad dive into one of the most debated topics in B2B sales—whether outbound still works in today’s market. Asad argues that companies with strong product-market fit can still crush outbound, while AJ pushes back, saying it’s no longer the best way to scale. They break down cold call connect rates, changing sales tactics, and why partner-led growth and brand marketing are taking center stage.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction

(05:00) - Board Meeting Insights and Dynamics

(15:08) - Investor Sentiment and Market Challenges

(19:56) - The State of Outbound Sales

(30:12) - Debating Outbound Sales Effectiveness

(34:06) - The Evolution of Status Symbols in Tech

(39:33) - Shifting Metrics of Success

(43:13) - The Changing Landscape of Startup Equity

(50:29) - The Life's Work Mentality vs. Exit Strategy

(56:27) - The Role of Human Interaction in AI

(01:00:27) - Lessons from Recent Failures

Hiring a CRO is one of the most high-stakes decisions a founder can make—especially when a company is transitioning from SMB to enterprise sales. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Shensi Ding, Co-Founder of Merge, shares her experience navigating the search for a stage-appropriate revenue leader after raising their Series B in 2022. She breaks down the challenges of finding a CRO who wasn’t just impressive on paper but could actually build a disciplined enterprise sales motion, adapt to Merge’s intense culture, and help scale the company upmarket.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.

In this episode, Sam Jacobs, Asad Zaman, and AJ Bruno break down a viral LinkedIn post that sparked a heated debate about the role of B2B marketing in go-to-market strategy. Has marketing become too focused on pipeline at the expense of brand? Are CMOs being pushed out in favor of CROs? The team explores how marketing’s role is evolving, the tension between short-term revenue goals and long-term brand building, and what leaders can do to prove marketing’s strategic value.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Want more Topline by Pavilion? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Fundraising isn’t just sales—something Josh Guttman, co-founder and CEO of SELLIT9, learned the hard way. After spending years in SaaS sales and leadership, including a 12-year run at Salesforce, Josh thought his natural ability to pitch and build relationships would give him an edge in raising capital. But he quickly discovered that VCs don’t want to be sold—they want to believe.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Josh shares his journey from seasoned sales leader to first-time founder, the unexpected feedback that forced him to rethink his approach, and how he ultimately closed his pre-seed round by striking the right balance between confidence, storytelling, and authenticity.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.

In this episode, hosts Sam, AJ, and Asad dive into the strategic choices behind building teams in Latin America, focusing on compensation arbitrage and offshoring. They offer guidance for junior talent in North America, who now face competition from equally skilled and cost-effective professionals abroad, all while navigating the impact of AI on traditional roles. The conversation also tackles the challenge of hiring sales reps for complex deals and whether AI can handle routine tasks, freeing up sales talent to focus on creativity and strategic deal-making. Finally, the hosts discuss OpenAI's Deep Research release, exploring how it might be integrated into products and the operational benefits it could bring to businesses.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Want more Topline by Pavilion? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, hosts Sam Jacobs and Asad Zaman sit down with Alina Vandenberg, co-CEO of Chili Piper, to discuss the significant challenges she faced and overcame in her dual role as acting CMO. Alina delves into the complexities of scaling a rapidly growing company while maintaining a cohesive marketing strategy. She shares how she tackled the challenge of aligning data-driven marketing efforts with business goals, utilizing tools like Snowflake to enhance targeted outreach. Alina also addresses the creative hurdles of standing out in a saturated market, revealing how she employs humor and provocation to engage audiences effectively.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.

In this episode of Topline, Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman explore AI’s growing influence on go-to-market strategy, growth, and operations. They break down the difference between AI-first and AI-enabled companies, why some integrate AI seamlessly while others fall behind, and the operational roadblocks leaders face. The conversation covers the rise of AI Ops roles, legal pushback on AI-driven data usage, and how outdated go-to-market strategies are being disrupted. They also discuss why incentive compensation should extend beyond sales teams and why companies that resist AI risk being left behind.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Want more Topline by Pavilion? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, hosts Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman speak with Keith Frankel, Chief Product Officer at Totango, to explore the intricacies of merging company cultures post-acquisition. Keith shares his journey from founding enterprise AI companies to leading product teams at Totango, highlighting the challenges of integrating distinct cultures and product lines. The discussion delves into strategies for addressing cultural divides, emphasizing the importance of confronting uncomfortable issues to foster a unified company identity. Keith also outlines operational changes that blend teams across regions and enforce consistent processes.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.

In this episode of Topline, hosts Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman review insights from Carta’s State of Startups 2024 report. They explore the rise of down rounds in 2023 and 2024, highlighting the financial challenges many startups face today. The conversation shifts to the increasing prevalence of solo founders, noting a significant rise from 17% in 2017 to 36% in 2024. The trio also examines AI's transformative impact on business decision-making, sharing personal experiences with tools like ChatGPT. Finally, they delve into shifting company cultures and management practices, offering insights into how leaders can navigate these changes while focusing on personal development strategies.

View Carta State of Startups 2024 report.

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Topline is excited to introduce our newest segment – Topline Spotlight. In this series, our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to explore the biggest challenges they’ve faced and how they conquered them.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, our hosts sit down with Tom McCarty, CEO of Org Chart, to discuss a pivotal challenge he faced: narrowing the total addressable market (TAM) to drive better growth. As a first-time CEO of a private equity-backed company, Tom shares his strategic approach to refining market focus, which led to more effective growth strategies. He also provides insights for aspiring CEOs, highlighting the value of selecting the right partners and viewing challenges as avenues for personal and professional development.

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In this episode of Topline, Asad and AJ are joined by Kyle Norton, CRO of Owner.com and Host of The Revenue Leadership Podcast. They explore the evolving role of the CRO, highlighting the diverse characteristics of successful leaders in this position. The conversation also delves into the transformative impact of AI advancements, particularly the implications of GPT-3 and GPT-4 models on business operations and workforce dynamics. Kyle shares insights on how AI might reduce the need for middle management, prompting companies to rethink growth strategies.

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Topline is excited to introduce our newest segment – Topline Spotlight. In this series, our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to explore the biggest challenges they’ve faced and how they conquered them.

This week Sam, AJ, and Asad are joined by Jenny Podewils, Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Leapsome, to discuss the real-world challenges Leapsome faces in the ever-evolving HR tech scene. Jenny shares her journey, highlighting how AI is a game-changer for team performance and HR efficiency. She talks about Leapsome's bold move into the Human Resource Information System market and what it's like to steer a global company. Jenny's candid insights offer practical takeaways on using AI to transform business operations and why automation is crucial for managing a modern workforce.

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Investor and AI power user Tomasz Tunguz joins the show to break down his bold predictions for 2025. From startups with 30 employees hitting $100M ARR to the explosive productivity gains driven by AI, Tomasz explains how automation is reshaping the tech landscape. Tomasz, Sam, AJ, and Asad dive into his personal AI-driven workflows, the future of SaaS, why big enterprises might benefit from AI before startups disrupt them, and more.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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Topline is excited to introduce our newest segment – Topline Spotlight. In this series, our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to explore the biggest challenges they’ve faced and how they conquered them.

For the debut episode, Sam and Asad interview AJ Bruno, CEO of QuotaPath and co-host of Topline, to reflect on his experience navigating significant headcount cuts nearly two years ago. AJ opens up about the emotional and strategic challenges of reducing his workforce by 30%, the effect on company morale, and the surprising advantages of operating with a leaner team. He shares valuable insights on aligning organizational goals with top talent and the key lessons he's carried forward.

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In our first episode of 2025, Sam, AJ, and Asad continue the conversation on how AI is reshaping innovation and product development. They explore how the real game-changer isn't just about coding anymore—it's about sparking original ideas and unleashing creativity in this tech-driven era. Asad brings an interesting perspective on management, suggesting that trimming down on traditional managers might just be the secret sauce for boosting efficiency. The trio also gets personal, sharing their own leadership hurdles and aspirations for the year, from evolving their leadership styles to fine-tuning company processes.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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In this episode of the Topline, hosts Sam, AJ, and Asad look back at the defining moments of 2024, sharing personal reflections and key lessons on growth. They dive into the transformative role AI is playing across industries, from its impact on SaaS applications to the enduring value of human expertise in an automated world.

Looking ahead to 2025, Asad makes a bold prediction about HubSpot's trajectory, while the group tackles some of the biggest challenges companies face today, like distribution and valuation. They discuss why strong distribution channels are more critical than ever—and what that means for businesses striving to stay competitive.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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In this episode of the Topline podcast, hosts Sam, AJ, and Asad sits down with Janet Gehrmann, co-founder of Scoop Analytics, to dive into the ever-evolving world of tech startups. Janet shares the story behind Scoop Analytics and its mission to make data access and presentation effortless for business users. Together, they discuss the challenges of pivoting in response to market changes, finding the right balance between a founder’s conviction and the need to stay flexible, and the exciting revival of San Francisco's tech scene. They also explore the rising trend of CEOs stepping aside after funding rounds, digging into the pressures of startup leadership and the importance of having a strong support network for founders.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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Topline by Pavilion is proud to debut the Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now:
https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast

Roxanne Bras Petraeus, CEO of Ethena, joins Sam, AJ, and Asad on Topline this week. Roxanne peels back the curtain on Ethena's early success in securing major clients like Figma and Netflix, highlighting the company's strategic approach to client acquisition and effective use of press coverage. The conversation also explores the evolving employer-employee relationship, focusing on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives and the importance of fair, systematic processes to address unconscious bias. They then delve into the pivotal role of compliance training in shaping workplace behavior, emphasizing that impactful programs should create space for open dialogue, encourage self-reflection, and strengthen organizational culture overall.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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This week on Topline, Sam, AJ, and Asad sit down with Nick Mehta, CEO of Gainsight, to discuss the evolution of customer success (CS) and its growing impact on business strategy. Nick explains why sustained investment in CS is crucial, how customer success managers can thrive by combining technical and commercial skills, and the role AI plays in transforming customer interactions. The episode also delves into how pricing models shape CS strategy and what the future holds for AI-driven customer engagement.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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In Episode 85 of Topline, Sam Jacobs and Asad Zaman welcome Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, for a deep dive into the shifting landscape of venture capital and market trends. The discussion spans the resurgence of IPOs, the state of M&A activity, and how startups are adapting in a post-2021 economy. They explore the role of AI in reshaping growth strategies, the rising importance of capital efficiency, and the nuanced dynamics of late-stage funding.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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In this Sunday’s episode, Sam, AJ, and Asad explore today’s market dynamics looking at recent economic shifts, from Federal Reserve rate cuts to the crypto surge, and the challenges of business predictability. They also explore how sales compensation is evolving, especially with the rise of usage-based pricing models.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!


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Resources:
Pavilion Q3 Pulse Report
Clouded Judgment
State of Opencloud - Battery Ventures

In this week’s episode, hosts Sam, AJ, and Asad dissect the election results and what it means for business leaders and workplaces. They tackle the tricky balance of handling political conversations in the office, highlighting the importance of keeping organizational goals in sight while respecting diverse employee viewpoints. They also look at how media is changing, pointing out the growing appeal of long-form content and authenticity in both politics and business.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

Attention CEOs and Founders! Join Pavilion at the CEO Summit on January 23rd in vibrant New Orleans. Don’t miss out—reserve your spot today!

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We welcome back David Obrand, CEO of Salesloft, for a lively discussion on navigating the shifting world of enterprise sales. David dives into his company's strategic move toward enterprise growth, highlighting why focusing on profitability and staying adaptable is crucial in today’s unpredictable economy. They also explore how AI is shaping sales, the hurdles of staying competitive, and how go-to-market strategies are evolving to meet the moment.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

If you haven’t already, make sure to check out David’s first Topline appearance where he discusses the three pillars of navigating the enterprise market.

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In this episode of the Revenue Leadership Podcast, host Kyle dives into the complexities of hiring top-tier sales talent with Asad Zaman, CEO of Sales Talent Agency and co-host of Topline. Together, they explore the unique challenges of recruiting in the tech industry, where demand for skilled salespeople often outpaces supply.

Asad shares why a structured hiring process is crucial—from a well-thought-out launch phase to a detailed scorecard for assessing candidates. The conversation also covers the importance of qualities like emotional intelligence, strategic empathy, and focused curiosity in sales roles, and how a professional hiring approach can attract top talent and strengthen an employer's brand.

If you like what you heard from Kyle today, make sure to follow The Revenue Leadership Podcast for new episodes every Wednesday.

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In this episode of the Topline podcast, hosts Sam, AJ, and Asad sit down with Alon Alroy, Co-Founder and CMO of Bizzabo, to explore the ever-changing world of event technology. Alon opens up about Bizzabo's journey, from navigating the challenges of COVID-19 and the boom in virtual events to the exciting return of in-person experiences. They also dive into how AI is shaping personalized event experiences and the growing importance of standing out in an increasingly competitive market.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen to the first two episodes now.

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In this episode of The Revenue Leadership Podcast, Mark Niemek, Chief Revenue Officer at Salesloft, opens up about his journey from Salesforce to Salesloft. He talks about the company's shift from being product-driven to a platform-focused organization and shares his thoughts on the critical role of operational discipline, transforming talent, and preserving company culture during times of change. Mark also highlights the power of a unified sales strategy, stressing how a consistent framework can boost forecasting accuracy and improve deal management.

Next week will be the last episode of The Revenue Leadership Podcast to be featured on the Topline feed. If you like what you heard from Kyle today, make sure to follow The Revenue Leadership Podcast for new episodes every Wednesday.

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In episode 80 of Topline, host Sam, AJ, and Asad sit down with David Spitz, a former investment banker turned entrepreneur, to tackle the topic of GTM efficiency. Together, they dive into the growing challenges SaaS companies face as GTM efficiency metrics continue to decline. David introduces a new metric that compares sales and marketing spend to net changes in ARR, highlighting a troubling trend of inefficiency across public SaaS companies. They unpack the implications of this shift, examine how economic factors are shaping the landscape, and discuss how SaaS business models are evolving in response.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen to the first two episodes now.

Want more? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

If you like what you heard from Kyle today, make sure to follow The Revenue Leadership Podcast for new episodes every Wednesday.

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In episode 79 of Topline, Sam and Asad sit down with Benedict Evans to discuss the rapid evolution of AI. Together, they explore AI’s growing impact on businesses and the economy, with Benedict offering expert insights on the scalability of AI models and the challenges companies face in staying competitive. The conversation also delves into AI’s implications for the job market and its role in shaping the future of enterprise software.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen to the first two episodes now.

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On this episode of the Revenue Leadership podcast, host Kyle Norton chats with Dini Mehta, former CRO of Lattice, to uncover the art of scaling through a multi-product strategy. Dini shares her journey of transforming Lattice from a single-product company into a thriving multi-product powerhouse. Together, they explore the nuances of launching new products, structuring teams for success, and driving engagement with thoughtful incentives and enablement. This episode is packed with insights for revenue leaders looking to tackle growth through innovation.

Dive deeper into Dini’s insights on revenue leadership and team building on her LinkedIn and Twitter pages.

If you like what you heard from Kyle today, make sure to follow The Revenue Leadership Podcast for new episodes every Wednesday.

Secure your ticket to GTM2024 in Austin, TX (October 14 - 16), and don’t forget to use the code TOPLINE for 15% of your ticket.

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In this episode of Topline, Sam and Asad welcome Kyle Norton, CRO of Owner.com and new host of the Revenue Leadership Podcast. The discussion kicks off with insights from a recent episode featuring Jason Lemkin, where they explore the dynamics between boards and CROs, emphasizing the importance of trust and the challenges of fear in leadership roles. The conversation also delves into the evolving role of RevOps as a critical support function, highlighting its impact on organizational efficiency and productivity.

Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen to the first two episodes now.

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Secure your ticket to GTM2024 in Austin, TX (October 14 - 16), and don’t forget to use the code TOPLINE for 15% of your ticket.

Pavilion is thrilled to introduce The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton, now part of the Topline media network. In the second episode, Kyle sits down with Kevin “KD” Dorsey, CRO of finally.

KD opens his mind to us, sharing insights from his extensive experience building successful startup sales teams. He highlights the critical role of developing comprehensive playbooks, focusing on five key pillars: people, prospects, problem, process, and product. Kevin also offers practical advice for sales leaders on tackling high-impact challenges and nurturing a culture centered on continuous learning and growth.

You can get all of these concepts and more via Sales Leadership Accelerator and on KD’s LinkedIn page.

If you like what you heard from Kyle today, make sure to follow The Revenue Leadership Podcast for new episodes every Wednesday.

Join the Topline hosts and 800+ B2B executives in Austin for GTM2024. Use the code TOPLINE for 15% of your ticket.

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In episode 77, our hosts dive deep into the biggest go-to-market trends emerging from two major tech conferences, INBOUND and Dreamforce. They explore how Salesforce and HubSpot are pushing the boundaries with AI, especially around AI agents, and what this means for B2B SaaS sales and customer experience. They also debate about whether the go-to-market approach is fundamentally broken or simply challenging, emphasizing the importance of product quality and adaptability in a rapidly changing market.

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Topline by Pavilion is also proud to debut The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton. Listen now.

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Secure your ticket to GTM2024 in Austin, TX (October 14 - 16), and don’t forget to use the code TOPLINE for 15% of your ticket.

Check out The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli.

Pavilion is thrilled to introduce The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton, now part of the Topline media network. In the debut episode, Kyle sits down with Jason Lemkin, Founder & CEO of SaaStr and VC.

Jason and Kyle delve into the complexities of board dynamics and offer advice on how revenue leaders can build trust with their board, take direct feedback in stride, and embrace bad news.

The duo also discusses the complex relationship between CEOs and revenue leaders, highlighting the challenges of managing performance anxiety and the importance of reassurance from the top.

If you like what you heard from Kyle today, make sure to follow The Revenue Leadership Podcast for new episodes every Wednesday.

Secure your ticket to GTM2024 in Austin, TX (October 14 - 16), and don’t forget to use the code TOPLINE for 15% of your ticket.

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In this episode of Topline, Sam, AJ, and Asad delve into the concept of GTM Efficiency, a metric introduced by David Spitz that measures the cost of generating NRR. They discuss the implications of this metric for tech companies, including its potential as a leading indicator of future performance. The discussion also touches on whether there’s a need for a “Chief Go-To-Market Officer,” debating if another executive role dedicated to GTM strategy is necessary.

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Join us October 14 - 16 in Austin, TX for GTM2024 - the #1 conference for go-to-market executives. Use the code TOPLINE for 15% of your ticket.

Further reading

1. How GTM Efficiency Affects IPO Readiness
2. It's Time for a Chief Go-To-Market Officer

In today’s mini-episode, Sam, AJ, and Asad discuss their thoughts on planning for 2025 and setting growth targets. They dive into the macroeconomic outlook for 2025 and the importance of being on the front foot with growth.

Crossbeam x Pavilion: The Future of Revenue (Part II). Contribute to the research.

Secure your ticket to GTM2024 in Austin, TX (October 14 - 16), and don’t forget to use the code TOPLINE for 15% of your ticket.

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