What should founders and operators prioritize when the market swings 6% in a day? In this episode, Sam, Asad and AJ break down the fallout from historic tariff whiplash, trillion-dollar market swings, and the signals that separate resilient companies from risky bets. They debate:

• Defensive moves vs. offensive plays: When to cut costs, when to lean into growth, and why “profitable efficiency” is the new mantra.
• Customer psychology in chaos: Why “delay” is the word of the year—and how to combat it.
• The global ripple effect: How geopolitical instability impacts hiring, pricing, and even brand perception for U.S. companies abroad.
• AI, offshoring, and variable costs: Tactics to future-proof your team and margins.

Plus, live data from Pavilion’s pulse survey reveals how 56% of companies are already adjusting 2025 forecasts—and why the CEOs argue volatility isn’t going away. Whether you’re debating layoffs, M&A, or just how to sleep at night, this episode is your survival guide."

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Key Moments:

[01:19] – Market Volatility & Whiplash

[07:07] – Defensive Strategies for Volatile Times

[31:36] – Customer Psychology: Fighting "Delay" Mindset

[47:01] – People Strategy: Building a Resilient Team

[57:52] – Offensive Plays: When to Attack

[01:05:41] – Wins & Fails

Most SaaS companies don’t fail because they grow too slowly—they fail because they grow too fast and ignore the warning signs.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, the team engages with Michael Dzik, an operating partner at Radian Capital. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience in the B2B technology sector, discussing the challenges and strategies for companies at different stages of their growth. Key topics include identifying growth stall points, the importance of product flexibility, the role of customer discovery, and best practices in pricing and packaging. Mike emphasizes the need for continuous innovation and reveals how Radian Capital supports companies through various investment approaches. Additionally, Mike recommends notable books he is currently reading, such as 'Blood Meridian' and 'The Mosquito'.

Key Moments:

00:00 — Introduction to Top Line Podcast

00:45 — Spotlight on Michael Dzik

02:21 — Radian Capital's Investment Strategy

06:05 — Challenges and Solutions in Vertical SaaS

19:36 — Insights on Pricing and Packaging

21:59 — Book Recommendations and Closing Remarks

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

In this episode of Topline, we sit down with Ryan Burke, VP of Sales at CyberArk (former VP of Sales at Zilla Security), to dive deep into the $175 million acquisition of Zilla. Ryan shares what it’s really like to navigate an exit in today’s market—from the unexpected nature of M&A deals to the grueling due diligence process and the tough decisions that founders and executives face. We also explore the evolving cybersecurity landscape, why big platforms are scooping up smaller companies earlier, and how AI is both a threat and an opportunity in the industry. Plus, we discuss the power of trusted networks in sales, whether the "Rolodex hire" is making a comeback, and how partnerships are shaping go-to-market strategies.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - The Exciting Exit of Zilla Security

(07:40) - Navigating the Acquisition Process

(16:19) - The Impact of Market Conditions on Startups

(25:04) - Sales Team Dynamics During Transitions

(32:32) - Trends in Cybersecurity and AI's Role

(35:20) - Navigating Cybersecurity Challenges

(38:38) - Mergers and Acquisitions in Cybersecurity

(40:32) - The Impact of AI on Cybersecurity

(43:14) - The Role of Trusted Networks in Sales

(49:06) - Innovative Partnerships and Their Importance

(01:00:01) - Effective Communication in Professional Settings

In this week's episode, join Sam, AJ, and Asad as they delve into Gong's State of Revenue Leadership Report, explore the challenges startups encounter in a market that prefers comprehensive solutions, help non-technical founders understand the work of engineers, and more.

Want more Topline? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and read episode recaps.

This episode officially marks one year of Topline! We are excited to kick off Season 2 with a very special guest: David Obrand, renowned SaaS leader and the current CEO of Salesloft.

In this episode, David breaks down Salesloft’s 3 pillars for successfully navigating the enterprise market. He also delves into the need for a revenue orchestration platform and recounts his transition to CEO at Salesloft following the founder's leadership, including more invaluable go-to-market and leadership insights.

Want more Topline? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners or read the episode recaps.

On this week’s Topline Hotline, a listener wonders if gift giving is still a thing. Does it build psychological capital? And does it differ between employees vs customers? Listen to hear what Sam, AJ, and Asad have to say.

Adam Robinson is among the most renowned founders in SaaS today. He has amassed nearly 75,000 followers on LinkedIn through building Retention.com "in public" to $22M ARR over the last 4 years. He joins Topline to share his story as a bootstrapped entrepreneur and influencer, along with some tips on how other technology leaders can grow their LinkedIn presence.

Want more Topline? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and read episode recaps.

Andrea Kaya from Help Scout joins Topline to discuss the shift from growth at any cost to profitable efficient growth (PEG) and shares tips on how to tackle churn and improve your CAC-to-LTV ratio. The group also discusses the latest revenue attainment data from  Pavilion’s March Pulse Report.

Want more Topline? Read episode recaps or join our Slack channel to engage with other listeners.

Andrea Kaya from Help Scout joins Topline to discuss the shift from growth at any cost to profitable efficient growth (PEG)

Be the first to hear insights from Pavilion’s 2024 B2B Compensation Benchmarks. before its April 1 release to the general public. Pavilion members have early access in the member hub.

Our hosts also discuss layoffs, hirings, and how the negotiation scale is tipping back towards companies vs candidates and dive into Carta’s State of Compensation H2 2023 report.

Want more Topline? Read episode recaps or join our Slack channel to engage with other listeners here.

Not every good salesperson makes a good sales leader. In this week’s mini-episode, our hosts discuss the challenges of having a Team Lead and offer insights to guide the decision.

Learn how revenue platforms like Clari, Gong, and Outreach have evolved over the years and how Clari’s President, Kevin Knieriem, is expanding their SAM into verticals like medical devices, manufacturing, and financial services. The group also discusses Clari’s approach to becoming a unified revenue platform.

Want more Topline? Read the recaps and join the Topline Slack channel to engage with the hosts and other listeners.

Edward Chiu, CEO of Catalyst, breaks the news of their merger with Totango, another leading Customer Success platform. Edward sheds light on what led to this decision and the broader implications this merger will have on the CS landscape. Get an in-depth look at Catalyst's approach to nurturing innovation and driving customer value.

Explore the world of partnerships and ecosystem-led growth with Bob Moore, CEO and Co-Founder of Crossbeam. Bob delves into his journey of building symbiotic partnerships, the pivotal role of ecosystems in scaling ventures, and how his approach to collaborative growth has shaped his successful entrepreneurial career.

Want more Topline? Read the recaps.

How do you build a revenue engine that doesn’t just generate pipeline—but generates the right pipeline? In this episode, Kyle Lacy, CMO of Jellyfish, shares how his team tackled one of the biggest challenges in B2B go-to-market: pipeline predictability.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Kyle explains why traditional metrics like Stage 1 pipeline weren’t cutting it, how Jellyfish revamped its approach with deeper segmentation and leading indicators, and the impact of launching a Pipeline Council to align sales and marketing around quality, not just volume. Sam, Asad, and Kyle also touch on the biggest forecasting mistakes GTM teams make, why tracking pipeline per rep, source, and channel is a game-changer, how AI is reshaping marketing strategy, and what it takes to be a great CMO in 2025.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Top Line Spotlight

(02:20) - Overview of Jellyfish and Its Purpose

(04:15) - Addressing Challenges with Leading Indicators

(09:50) - The Shift to Marketing for Engineers

(11:42) - The Role of AI in Modern Marketing

(16:22) - Inspiration and Closing Thoughts

Our hosts delve into the M&A landscape of 2024, dissecting how economic trends such as stagnant interest rates are hindering IPOs and how the ripple effects of the US election can create market volatility. They also provide actionable tips on attracting acquisition interest. The episode concludes with a discussion on macro-news and how to streamline SaaS metrics.

In this episode of Topline, our hosts recap their time at Pavilion’s CEO Summit in Phoenix. They also discuss the impact of macroeconomic improvements on market trends, the recent wave of layoffs in the tech sector, and a prevailing sentiment among CEOs toward prioritizing profitability and sustainable growth amidst market adjustments.

Watch SaaStr's Jason Lemkin's CEO Summit session where he shares his top priorities for the beginning of 2024.

Want more Topline? Read the recaps.

Carta’s Head of Insights, Peter Walker, joins our hosts to discuss the implications of economic rate cuts, company shutdowns, and the challenges founders face during fundraising. The discussion also covers the best investment opportunities today and the importance of equity for employees and organizational health in companies.

Join hosts AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman on this episode of Topline Hotline as they tackle a pressing question from the go-to-market community: how to balance getting a great deal for your company while choosing the right product. They discuss the importance of being a savvy buyer, the dynamics of commoditized versus non-commoditized products, and the role of leverage in negotiations.

Enjoy the mini-episode?
Read the recaps and join our Slack channel to engage with other listeners here.

In this episode, hosts Sam Jacobs, Asad Zaman, and AJ Bruno delve into the dynamics of the late-stage tech market, discussing trends in unicorn companies, the venture capital landscape, and the importance of aligning business growth with profitability. They also explore the concept of 'stage appropriateness' in executive hiring and share insights on effectively communicating company valuation and equity to employees.

Want more Topline? Read the recaps.

Our hosts discuss viral moments from the past two weeks, including Carta’s exit of their secondary market business and Cloudflare’s layoff of an AE that went viral on TikTok and LinkedIn. The episode wraps up with a discussion sparked by one of Sam’s most recent LinkedIn posts on how Growth at Any Cost (GAAC) is dead. 

Want more Topline? Read the recaps.

In an effort to generate more demand, a listener wonders how you can best re-engage lost opportunities. Is it worth trying to win back someone who’s told you no before? Or should you focus on finding new prospects? Listen to this week’s Topline Hotline to hear what Sam, AJ, and Asad have to say.

Founder and General Partner of Theory Ventures, Tomasz Tunguz, shares his founder story, his predictions for 2024, and his point of view on artificial intelligence from the changing landscape of AI to Microsoft’s leadership in the AI race.

He also shares insights on the impact of inflation and interest rates on the tech industry, concerns about the size of the venture capital industry, and the metrics that matter for seed and Series A companies.

Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

Our hosts cover a gamut of topics in our first episode of the new year. Since Harvard’s President, Claudine Gay, resigned due to her response towards anti-semitism on campus – should the experiences of current college students be considered when hiring?

Next, we transition to a conversion on the rise of secondary sales to generate liquidity. Wrapping up the episode by exploring the balance between speed and thoughtfulness in decision-making, emphasizing the need to adapt decision-making approaches based on the stage of business growth.

Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

This week on Topline, the hosts talk about the Federal Reserve's update on interest rates, the economic outlook for the tech sector in 2024, a new paper by Winning by Design's that asks whether SaaS has lost go to market fit, and the cancellation of the Adobe and Figma merger.

Is outbound sales really dead, or are we just doing it wrong? In this episode of Topline, AJ and Asad dive into one of the most debated topics in B2B sales—whether outbound still works in today’s market. Asad argues that companies with strong product-market fit can still crush outbound, while AJ pushes back, saying it’s no longer the best way to scale. They break down cold call connect rates, changing sales tactics, and why partner-led growth and brand marketing are taking center stage.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction

(05:00) - Board Meeting Insights and Dynamics

(15:08) - Investor Sentiment and Market Challenges

(19:56) - The State of Outbound Sales

(30:12) - Debating Outbound Sales Effectiveness

(34:06) - The Evolution of Status Symbols in Tech

(39:33) - Shifting Metrics of Success

(43:13) - The Changing Landscape of Startup Equity

(50:29) - The Life's Work Mentality vs. Exit Strategy

(56:27) - The Role of Human Interaction in AI

(01:00:27) - Lessons from Recent Failures

A listener asks how to deal with a situation where a customer asks to churn in the first year of a multi year contract, where there was no fault by the company. Listen to this week's episode to hear what the hosts had to say.

This week, our hosts further reflect on 2023 from a business standpoint but also personal. This year was full of economic and individual challenges – including a discussion on business intuition and the skills best suited to survive a downturn with. 

Buckle up though, we also learn that AJ has a past company’s logo tattooed on his chest, Asad once had pink and green hair with lots of piercings, and Sam spent a lot of time in Vegas as a young professional. Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

As we near the end of 2023, our hosts wanted to provide listeners with actionable insights by discussing what worked well this year, important things they’ve changed their minds on, and predictions for 2024. Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

On Topline Hotline 35, our hosts tackle a two-part question seeking advice on sales leadership. The first issue involves an AE who schedules meetings with other AEs to voice complaints. The second issue surrounds the lack of trust between this AE and management, which needs to be addressed and built.

Enjoy the mini-episode? Read the recaps or join our Slack channel to engage with other listeners here.

There are two schools of thought about price increases heading into 2024. While the data shows that the average ACV for B2B SaaS products has increased by 9% in the last year, industry pundits including Jason Lemkin have said that if you raise prices in the current economy, you should expect to lose customers. On this week's Topline Hotline, Sam, AJ and Asad share their advice on price increases.

Our hosts discuss changes in work culture, productivity, and how to screen for work ethic during the hiring process. They explore the flaws of four-day work weeks and the challenges of maintaining a high level of productivity. Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

Following the episode with Mark Roberge, your Topline hosts discuss the role of venture in a world where companies can achieve product-market fit and profitable growth at reduced startup costs. They also explore the use of AI and emerging technologies in building and selling products with smaller teams, as well as its impact on venture funding and the need for follow-up rounds.

Enjoy the mini-episode? Read the recaps or join our Slack channel to engage with other listeners here.

Also listen to E55 with Mark Roberge.

On this episode of Topline Hotline, the hosts answer a question about how GTM leaders forecast churn, and whether they rely simply on historic data or include things like customer health scores, rep feedback, time to first value, etc.

On this week’s episode of Topline, we cover a range of subjects. We give 2024 market predictions as core CPI is the lowest it has been since March 2021, gain clarity on areas like CAC payback averages with data from OpenView, and share our thoughts on OpenAI’s Demo Day. Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

Hiring a CRO is one of the most high-stakes decisions a founder can make—especially when a company is transitioning from SMB to enterprise sales. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Shensi Ding, Co-Founder of Merge, shares her experience navigating the search for a stage-appropriate revenue leader after raising their Series B in 2022. She breaks down the challenges of finding a CRO who wasn’t just impressive on paper but could actually build a disciplined enterprise sales motion, adapt to Merge’s intense culture, and help scale the company upmarket.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.

Despite the numerous layoffs witnessed in 2023, the current job market surpasses the number of cuts. On this week’s episode, we cover a variety of topics surrounding the state of the job market, including how employers are gaining more leverage when hiring and the importance of hiring employees that care about the mission. Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

After examining G2's State of Software report, which delves into the supply side, we now shift our focus to the demand side, as we explore the data provided by Gartner and Vendr. To our surprise, SaaS dominates the cloud market in terms of end-user spending (Gartner). Listen to find out more. Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

On this week's Topline Hotline, the hosts answer a community question about what to do when inbound lead flow slows and your sales team has excess capacity - and specifically, whether the team should have a specialized role focused on inbound only.

Submit your question by using #Topline on LinkedIn or in the #function_CRO channel in Pavilion, or by emailing topline@joinpavilion.com.

In this week’s mini-episode, our Topline hosts and David Obrand of Salesloft discuss addressing the gap in pricing between early customers and new customers for SaaS companies. The hosts discuss the challenges and strategies for handling this issue, including the psychological aspect, setting expectations upfront, and emphasizing the value provided to early customers.

Want more Topline? Read episode recaps or join our Slack channel to engage with other listeners here.

In this episode, the hosts dissect the explosive growth in the software industry, as revealed by the G2 Quarterly State of Software report. With under 50K software companies existing in Q3 2018 to around 125K today, the challenge of demand generation is intensified by today's economic climate. We also explore the effectiveness of ecosystem-led growth while fighting to generate demand. Then, we delve into the delicate balance of home and work life and the importance of being an empathetic leader while maintaining professionalism, concluding a discussion on Nvidia CEO's candid reflection on the challenges of entrepreneurship. Want more TOPLINE? Read the recaps.

On this week's episode of Topline, the hosts review the state of the market and talk about how to balance the need for efficiency in business with taking risks and driving innovation. Over the past year, there's been a 4X increase in the number of touches it takes to create a new opportunity, and there's also a debate around what it takes to stand out in crowded inboxes.

This week, the hosts discuss how much experience an SDR needs to be successful in the role. Hint: Traits like ambition, curiosity, and persistence matter more to the Topline crew than previous SDR experience.

With all three hosts in Nashville for GTM2023, this week's episode recaps key learnings from the event, including why alignment is so critical for growth and why we should all be leaning in to AI, and reflects on the events happening in Israel and Gaza.

This week, the hosts discuss how to present to the board when you're still navigating product-market fit and the need to expand into new markets.

Submit your question by using #Topline on LinkedIn or in the #function_CRO channel in Pavilion.

QuotaPath’s Kelly O’Halloran shares findings from the company’s recent compensation study, which found that it takes employees 3 to 6 months to understand their comp plan, and 39% of reps say that their comp plans don’t meet key business objectives. The result - 90% aren’t meeting quota. Hear more about the data, along with what it means for the broader tech industry, on this week’s episode.

In this episode, Sam Jacobs, Asad Zaman, and AJ Bruno break down a viral LinkedIn post that sparked a heated debate about the role of B2B marketing in go-to-market strategy. Has marketing become too focused on pipeline at the expense of brand? Are CMOs being pushed out in favor of CROs? The team explores how marketing’s role is evolving, the tension between short-term revenue goals and long-term brand building, and what leaders can do to prove marketing’s strategic value.

Are you being paid what you’re worth? Help us refresh Pavilion’s industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Want more Topline by Pavilion? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Carta Head of Insights Peter Walker joins Topline to talk about key findings from the company’s State of Startup Compensation Report for H1 2023, including what’s happening with layoffs, why Q3 was the quarter with the largest number of startups dissolving or declaring bankruptcy, and how these trends are impacting employee attitudes around compensation, equity, and job mobility.

Instead of the usual Topline Hotline episode, we are excited to share Sam's guest appearance on the 30 Minutes to President's Club Tactic Teardown podcast.

Discover a market shift observed by revenue experts Sam Jacobs, Mark Kosoglow, and Armand Farrokh. Learn how to leverage it for an efficient sales team that consistently meets revenue goals.

If you liked what you saw here, join 50,000+ sellers and leaders on the 30 Minutes to President’s Club newsletter right here.

In this mini-episode, Sam, AJ, and Asad discuss selecting the right lead qualification methodology and explore the challenges in using the BANT methodology for qualifying SMBs.

Enjoy the mini-episode? Check out Topline.