Explore every episode of the podcast Top of the Pile
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Guest: Jim Citrin, Best Selling Author & Senior Leader, Spencer Stuart | Standing Out in a Competitive Job Market | 09 Sep 2025 | 00:36:51 | |
In this episode of Top of the Pile, host Karen Elders sits down with Jim Citrin, one of the nation’s foremost experts on leadership and career success. As leader of Spencer Stuart’s CEO practice, Jim has advised boards and CEOs on more than 850 top leadership searches over the past 25 years. He brings a wealth of experience as a former McKinsey consultant, Goldman Sachs associate, and bestselling author of eight books, including The Career Playbook, which offers invaluable guidance for young professionals navigating the early stages of their careers. Together, Karen and Jim explore the realities of today’s competitive job market, where internship and entry-level acceptance rates at top firms rival Ivy League admissions. Jim shares strategies for standing out among hundreds of applicants, emphasizing the importance of clarity, persistence, and developing what he calls the “career triangle” of job satisfaction, compensation, and lifestyle. The conversation highlights how young professionals can proactively balance these factors throughout their careers. They also dive into practical advice on relationship-building, networking (or as Jim prefers to call it, “authentic connection”), and mastering the art of interviewing. From creating strong first impressions to asking thoughtful, well-researched questions, Jim breaks down the habits that set top candidates apart. Throughout the discussion, both Karen and Jim stress the value of curiosity, resilience, and self-awareness—qualities that help young professionals build momentum early in their careers. This episode is filled with timeless advice, practical strategies, and inspiration for anyone looking to launch their career and stay at the "Top of the Pile". Here are a few links to key items mentioned: The Career Playbook by Jim Citrin Interviewing to live, living to interview, article by Jim Citrin Girl Effect, a non-profit, aims to unlock the power of girls and end poverty globally LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Advertising/Digital Media Sales | Guest: Gary Strauss | 06 Jan 2025 | 00:22:59 | |
In this episode, I sit down with Gary Strauss, a seasoned digital sales professional whose impressive career has spanned groundbreaking moments in the media industry. Gary was a key player in the pioneering days of digital advertising as part of the initial outside sales team at DoubleClick, a company whose acquisition by Google in 2008 was pivotal to shaping the tech giant’s dominance in the ad tech space. Gary’s career highlights include being part of two companies that went public and contributing to successful acquisitions, one of which culminated in a sale to Epic Games—the creators of Fortnite. Most recently, he led Business Development at Kidoodle TV, a free, kid-safe streaming service featuring premium content such as Dude Perfect. Throughout our conversation, Gary shares invaluable insights on building a fulfilling and impactful career in sales. He underscores the importance of preparation, persistence, and adaptability in the face of challenges, offering practical advice for navigating the professional landscape. Key takeaways include: • Sales as a career path: It’s not just about selling a product but solving problems and building trust. Likeability and strong client relationships are the cornerstone of success. • Entrepreneurial spirit in sales: Sales professionals often run their own “mini-business” within larger organizations, making it an ideal path for those with a knack for innovation and initiative. • Career strategies: Take jobs for the education, not just the paycheck. Understand the company culture, and choose environments that nurture talent and align with your goals. Whether you’re exploring sales as a career or looking for inspiration on how to grow professionally, Gary’s story and advice will leave you motivated and ready to tackle your goals! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Commercial Real Estate | Guest: David Genovese, CEO of Baywater Properties | 25 Apr 2023 | 00:49:04 | |
Interested in commercial real estate, investment banking - or both? Check out my conversation with David Genovese, CEO of Baywater Properties. David's stellar career includes senior leadership roles with Credit Suisse First Boston and Bankers Trust Company. Learn about David's career path and the early pivot he had to make. Plus, David shares an overview of the commercial real estate landscape, what the main entry points are, what skills are needed, and how to set yourself up for success. Enjoy the listen! Hosted by Karen Elders of Launch Career Strategies LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Paths: Insurance and HR; Guest Colin Haupt, SVP Employee Engagement, Pure Insurance | 19 Oct 2022 | 00:27:00 | |
Attention! Double-dip - two career paths in one episode! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Investor Relations, Guest: Kallie Hapgood, Gridiron Capital | 19 May 2022 | 00:29:50 | |
Check out my conversation with Kallie Hapgood, Managing Director, Investor Relations with Gridiron Capital. Gridiron is a private equity firm that partners with founders, entrepreneurs, and management teams across consumer, B2B and B2C companies. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Investment Banking, Guest: James Marciano, Tuck Advisors | 25 Mar 2022 | 00:34:13 | |
In this episode, we hear from James Marciano, Founder of Tuck Advisors, an investment bank that focuses on mergers and acquisition advisory for smaller companies and startups with a focus on the education and health and wellness space. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Marketing/Social Media Guest: Haley Georgen, Founder That Cheese Princess and Marketing Major at Providence College | 18 Oct 2021 | 00:39:57 | |
It was the Spring of 2020 and Haley Georgen was stuck home like the rest of us. Haley decided to combine her love of photography and cheese to create That Cheese Princess, a company that makes unique charcuterie boards for small to large gatherings in the Providence/New England area. Learn how Haley put the marketing knowledge she learned in the classroom to work in real life. Haley shares her path of experiences including the classes, clubs, and internships that have helped her grow a marketing mindset. Launch Career Strategies intern Megan Stenberg joins the conversation!
Online resources for learning:
A great book that inspired Haley: That Cheese Plate Will Change Your Life, Marissa Mullen LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Computer Science and the Spirit of Entrepreneurism, Guest: Roland Afzelius | 27 Sep 2021 | 00:26:53 | |
Listen in to hear how undergrad Roland Afzelius turned his love of the water into a business (Oyster Bay Water Sports) and an amazing learning experience. This episode has tons of great advice on entrepreneurism, being a computer science major, and how to learn by doing! Hear what it's like to run a small business and learn about entrepreneurism from the many sides - inventor, finance, funding, marketing, customer service and more. Roland’s experience launching OBWS and understanding how a small business is run will help him in any career path he chooses. Related episode links: Info on Oyster Bay Water Sports (OBWS) BC’s Tech Track class - see if your university has something similar or ask that they create one! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Kevin McCordic: Lacrosse Injury leads to resilience and success off the field. How to balance your time as an undergrad and young professional. | 15 Sep 2021 | 00:49:01 | |
Kevin McCordic had just started his senior season on the Providence College Men's Lacrosse team when bad luck literally hit him square in the jaw. Hear how his time on the sidelines helped him grow as a student, athlete, and human being. And as a result, authored his first book: Wired Shut, 21 Unspoken Keys to College LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Technology Enterprise Sales, Guest: Mackenzie Coughlin, LinkedIn | 18 Jun 2021 | 00:22:23 | |
How a positive attitude and strong networking lands you the job...twice! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Investment Banking | Guest: Eric Stein, Global Chairman, Investment Banking, JPMorgan | 07 Jun 2021 | 00:46:36 | |
Switching gears to Investment Banking as I chat with Eric Stein, Global Chairman of Investment Banking for JPMorgan. Eric has had a tremendously successful career at JPMorgan but his initial path wasn't the typical IB path. Listen in to hear his message around work ethic and passion for the finance space. Plus, he shares advice on how to prepare for the investment banking summer analyst interview process. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career advice from a Media/Advertising HR Pro, Guest, Bucky Keady, Sr. HR/Talent Leader | 29 May 2021 | 00:36:31 | |
Career Topics: LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Advice from Brian Lawler, Senior Sales Manager, Amazon Ads | 04 Sep 2024 | 01:00:51 | |
In this episode, I'm thrilled to welcome Brian Lawler, a Senior Sales Manager, Amazon Ads with an impressive career in the advertising industry. Brian has held senior roles at top companies, including LinkedIn, AOL, DoubleClick, and News Corp, and has spent over seven years at Amazon. Known for his exceptional sales skills and leadership qualities, Brian is highly respected by customers and colleagues alike. A proud graduate of Providence College with a degree in Marketing, Brian is passionate about developing and mentoring emerging talent. In our conversation, he shares his personal work experiences and learnings that listeners can apply to their own careers, including:
Whether you’re looking to enhance your interview skills or navigate your career path, this episode with Brian Lawler is packed with practical advice and inspiration. Tune in to learn from one of the best in the business! Links to amazing books mentioned in this episode: LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Fast Facts Five Minutes, Career Topic: Feeling like you bombed that interview? | 18 May 2021 | 00:05:12 | |
Fast Facts: Bomb that interview? We've all been there. That pit in your stomach after finishing an interview and thinking "Jeez, I really screwed that up". Here are some thoughts around how to try and repair the damage and how to avoid it in the first place. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Advertising & Media | Guest: John Osborn, CEO, OMD Worldwide | 26 Apr 2021 | 00:43:01 | |
Today's guest is John Osborn, CEO at OMD Worldwide, an award-winning global media agency that works with top household brands including Pepsi, Apple, McDonald's, NFL, and FedEx to name a few. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Fast Facts Five Minutes, Career Topic: Efficient and Effective Job Search | 19 Apr 2021 | 00:05:38 | |
LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Tech Sales | Guest: Ken Grohe, President/CRO, Weka | 05 Apr 2021 | 01:00:24 | |
Career Path: Tech Sales Today's guest is Ken Grohe, President & CRO at Weka, the leading next-gen data storage firm. Ken is an epic storyteller and shares some of his best stories - how he broke into sales and what it takes to find continued success while selling and leading sales teams. Ken brings over three decades of tremendous sales success in the SaaS and storage industry. Ken possesses a rare dedication and passion for winning that is based on a customer-centric perspective. In addition to his roles at major tech companies, Ken is an advisor and board member for numerous up-and-coming Silicon Valley companies.
LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Fast Facts Five Minutes, Career Topic: Ghosting | 15 Mar 2021 | 00:05:35 | |
60% of candidates say they've been ghosted during their job search LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Private Equity & The Power of Weak Ties, Guest: Brian Ramsay | 07 Mar 2021 | 00:30:14 | |
Interested in Private Equity? Recent book Brian enjoyed: LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Five Minutes of Networking Tips | 23 Feb 2021 | 00:05:07 | |
This week's Top of the Pile is a fast facts episode where I'm giving you all of the most important tips and tricks to crank up your networking! Shoot us a note if there's something that didn't get covered or you just have more questions about your career search process! Go to launchcareerstrategies.com and CONTACT US today! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Don't be afraid to pivot (your major or your career): Life is a Decathlon, your career is just one event! | 23 Feb 2021 | 00:36:46 | |
Just get your first move down. My guest Jane Holt has a front-row seat to the struggles - and the successes - that undergrads and new grads go through as they figure out their career path. As former Director of Northwestern University's Waldron Student-Alumni Connections Program, Jane has seen first hand what employers are looking for and the important skills needed to succeed in this job market. Listen in for some real advice and inspiration - especially if you're still figuring things out. Hosted by Karen Elders of Launch Career Strategies LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Howard Stern Internship to Managing Big Brand Ad Campaigns for Pandora, Guest: James Saho | 15 Feb 2021 | 00:33:27 | |
Interested in Digital Media or Advertising? Hear how James' networking success came from a very unexpected place and led to internships at SiriusXM and the Howard Stern Show. Ultimately, James landed himself at Pandora - this time through a part-time gig. It's all very exciting to hear! Extra Career Search Tips: LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Success in the Emerging Space of Renewable Energy: Guest, Ned Horneffer | 28 Jan 2021 | 00:34:58 | |
Looking for a career path in a high growth area? LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Tech Sales | Meet Teddy Fuller, Account Executive, Oracle NetSuite | 09 Jul 2024 | 00:33:21 | |
Meet Teddy Fuller, Account Executive with Oracle NetSuite. Teddy is a 2021 graduate of the University of Denver and has spent the past 2.5+ years selling for NetSuite. Teddy shares his experience breaking into a top tech sales team. Hear about the undergrad courses and skills he developed that helped him get his first role as a BDR (Business Development Representative) and make the jump to an AE role. Learn about the interview process and the day-to-day of a BDR and AE. Plus, other career path options to take the BDR experience. This episode is chock full of career advice and direction for anyone interested in tech and/or sales. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Breaking Into Finance: Guest, Jennifer Foster, Co-Chief Investment Officer, Chilton Investment | 25 Jan 2021 | 00:36:14 | |
Thinking about a career in finance? Dip your toe in an area that might be of interest. Accounting is a great class to check out for a career in finance. A few online options: For young women, if you're looking for a support or mentoring group, this seems worthy to check out: LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Digital Media Sales, Pandora: Guest Bailey Spalding | 17 Jan 2021 | 00:22:53 | |
Thinking about Digital Media Sales? Check out my conversation with Bailey Spalding, Account Executive on the Pandora sales team. Hear about Bailey's path from college intern to entry level sales planner to successful seller. Check out these notebooks to put a little style into your note taking…. Best Notebooks of 2021 according to New York magazine’s The Strategist Courses to up your Excel and Powerpoint skills:
LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Money Advice for your 20's: Putting Your Career and Finances on the Right Path | 31 Dec 2020 | 00:30:17 | |
In the amount of time it takes to watch an episode of Jacquette is a financial behaviorist, author, podcast host, and the President/CEO of Sterling Investment Management. When she's not providing behavioral-based financial coaching, she's traveling the country for speaking engagements on behalf of Fortune 100 companies, AM Law 200 firms, nationally known non-profits, and conferences to talk about the intersection of emotions and money. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| 5 Tips to Kick Off a Great 2021! | 26 Dec 2020 | 00:05:12 | |
Happy New Year from Top of the Pile! We're sharing 5 easy things to do for your career (and just you) to start the new year off on the right foot! If you’re an undergrad, new grad, or somewhere else in your career journey - listen in - these tips can help anyone! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| The power of relationships in tough times: Zeke Hughes | 15 Dec 2020 | 00:31:09 | |
Zeke Hughes lost his job in March just after COVID hit. He immediately saw a choice before him: be negative and feel sorry for himself or pull himself up and take charge of his path. He chose the latter and followed his natural inclination to help others. Simply put, he chose to be progressive, not regressive. Key Topics Covered in this Episode: Keeping a positive mindset: You get what you give If you’re feeling down about your job search or just looking for some inspiration, listen to my conversation with Zeke. Zeke defines the power of empathy and perseverance. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Digital Media/Advertising, Guest: Jenny Bealle: From High School Internship to Full Time Career at Facebook | 07 Dec 2020 | 00:40:44 | |
Jenny Bealle was just a senior in high school when she landed a two-month shadow/internship opportunity at Facebook. She capitalized on that opportunity with multiple summer internship experiences and upon college graduation, a full-time role in Facebook's Austin offices. Hear how Jenny's strong work ethic and ability to develop relationships set her up for a positive career trajectory of learning and development. Plus, how she responded when her path took a turn in an unexpected direction! Tons of great career advice and inspiration from Jenny and a super interesting look into what it's like to work at Facebook. Hosted by Karen Elders of Launch Career Strategies Following are a few notes and links to check out from my conversation with Jenny. Skills: Looking to learn or up your Powerpoint know-how? Check out Microsoft Powerpoint training LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Media/Journalism, Guest Kwani Lunis: Climbing up the ladder in a journalism career | 01 Dec 2020 | 00:36:57 | |
Kwani Lunis is the Social Media Manager for NBC10 Boston. Listen in to find out how Kwani used her networking skills to get amazing internships in the media space including WEEI, NESN, and CBS News/CBS Sports, and ultimately a full-time role at NBC. She asked questions, worked hard and wasn't afraid to make mistakes. Kwani's career story is a great inspiration to get involved in the world around you and take charge of your career path. One of the many highlights of our conversation is Kwani's story about discovering your goals and creating a career roadmap. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Just create, Guest Chris Russo. Mastering networking to move the needle in your job search | 02 Nov 2020 | 00:27:17 | |
Chris Russo was a new grad working in the PR field when the COVID pandemic hit. What did he do? He quit his job to refocus his career goals and decide where he wanted to take his professional path. Listen to Chris' story of self-reliance and how his mindset of "just create" led him to develop the BC Media Alumni Network group. Chris shares stories around his career path in PR, marketing, social media, and production and TONS of great career advice along the way! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Sports Entrepreneurship, Mentorship and College Athletics - Meet the Founders of CGM Sports | 01 Jan 2024 | 00:40:52 | |
Join me and my talented intern, Christina Klinoff (BC '24), as we co-host this exciting episode that brings together sports entrepreneurship, mentorship, and college athletics. This episode is perfect for a variety of listeners:
Yes to any of the above Q's? Then this is the episode for you!
LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| What can I do with my Communication Major? Guest: Christine Caswell, Director, Internships & Career Readiness, Boston College | 25 Oct 2023 | 00:43:29 | |
Communication: The "Swiss Army Knife" major Check out my conversation with Christine Caswell, Director, Internships & Career Readiness at Boston College. Christine guides 800+ Comm majors as they navigate getting an internship and their first "real" job. Hear about Christine's journey as a broadcast journalist - where she started out and the grit and determination that led to her award-winning success! A few of the many highlights from our conversation:
LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Finance 101 for Young Professionals (+ tips for parents!) | Guest: Ann Garcia, CFP and Author | 15 Sep 2023 | 00:17:33 | |
Your credit score is your adult GPA! LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| How to Pay for College - a conversation with Ann Garcia, CFP and Author | 10 Sep 2023 | 00:39:54 | |
Want to balance living your best life today and financial security tomorrow?
LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Fashion Industry | Guests: Alison Bruhn & Delia Folk, Founders of The Style That Binds Us | 14 Jun 2023 | 00:41:06 | |
Join me as we dive into the fashion industry when I speak with the mother-daughter dynamic duo, Alison Bruhn and Delia Folk, co-founders of The Style That Binds Us, a next-gen media company focused on style and fashion. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||
| Career Path: Digital Media & AdTech | Guest: Lauren Benedict, SVP, Enterprise Sales, MNTN | 01 May 2023 | 00:31:21 | |
Show up. Be curious. Show you're hardworking. LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session. | |||