What happens when artificial intelligence enters the sanctuary? In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host Daniel Johnson talks with author and researcher Todd Korpi about his new book, AI Goes to Church (InterVarsity Press, 2025). They explore how AI is already shaping the church, the ethical and theological questions Christians must wrestle with, and how technology can be used to foster—not fracture—human flourishing. Todd (DMiss, Fuller Theological Seminary) is a pastor, missiologist, and church consultant. He is dean of digital ministry programs at Ascent College, assistant professor of Christian leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary, and works in several capacities at OneHope.

Key Topics:

• Why Todd wrote AI Goes to Church
• Defining AI and its influence on everyday life
• How algorithms shape spiritual formation
• Theological frameworks for engaging technology
• Ethics: Is technology neutral?
• AI and the future of work, rest, and human flourishing
• Higher education’s evolving posture toward AI
• Practical advice for churches: “Automate the boring bits”

Links & Resources:

• 📙Get the book: AI Goes to Church - https://www.ivpress.com/ai-goes-to-church
• Learn more about the SL Brown Foundation STUDIO - https://slbf.org/studio

Forgiveness is one of the most challenging—and liberating—virtues we can practice. In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host Jean Geran, sits down with Dr. Robert Enright, a pioneer in the scientific study of forgiveness and the founder of the International Forgiveness Institute. Bob shares his remarkable journey from asking a “dangerous question” about the purpose of his research to becoming a global leader in forgiveness education.

We explore:

• What forgiveness is—and what it is not
• Why forgiveness is a moral virtue
• The psychological and spiritual benefits of forgiving
• How forgiveness can break cycles of generational trauma
• Practical steps for forgiving others and yourself

Resources Mentioned:

• https://internationalforgiveness.com
• Free curriculum guides: Email director@internationalforgiveness.com and mention this podcast

Subscribe & Share:

If this conversation inspired you, subscribe to The Upward Podcast, leave a review, and share with a friend.

In this conversation, host Daniel Johnson welcomes author and leader Peter Greer, who discusses his latest book, How Leaders Lose Their Way: And How to Make Sure It Doesn't Happen to You. Drawing from decades of leadership experience and research, Peter explores the subtle and often invisible forces that cause leaders to drift from their mission, values, and integrity. The episode is a deep dive into the habits, mindsets, and relationships that help leaders finish well.

🧭 Key Topics Covered

• Mission Drift & Leadership Drift
• Building on his earlier book Mission Drift, Peter explains how both organizations and individuals can lose sight of their purpose.
• Writing Your Eulogy & Resignation Letter
• Peter shares how these two exercises helped him recalibrate his identity and leadership priorities.
• Misguided Pursuits: Achievement & Power
• The dangers of idolizing success and influence, especially in mission-driven work.
• The Role of Speed & Isolation in Drift
• How hurry and lack of authentic relationships contribute to leaders losing their way.

Whether you're a senior leader or a rising one, this episode offers practical wisdom and soul-searching reflection. Peter’s insights challenge us to slow down, build authentic relationships, and stay rooted in purpose. Leadership isn’t just about achieving—it’s about finishing well.

Peter Greer is president and CEO of HOPE International, a global nonprofit working to alleviate physical and spiritual poverty in 29 countries around the world. Peter’s favorite part of his role is spending time with the remarkable entrepreneurs HOPE serves. A graduate of Harvard’s Kennedy School, Peter has co-authored over 15 books, including Lead with Prayer, Mission Drift, Rooting for Rivals, and How Leaders Lose Their Way. While his sports loyalties remain in New England, he lives with his wife, Laurel, and their four children in Lancaster, PA.

📚 About the Book

Title: How Leaders Lose Their Way

Author: Peter Greer

Publisher: InterVarsity Press

Year: 2025

Website: HowLeadersLoseTheirWay.com

🔗 Resources & Links

• 📖 Purchase the book from InterVarsity Press = https://www.ivpress.com/how-leaders-lose-their-way
• 🌍 Hope International = https://www.hopeinternational.org/
• 🏛️ S.L. Brown Foundation = https://slbf.org/
• 📺 Watch this episode on YouTube = link fourth coming

A theme we return to time and again at Upper House is whole life integration. This means we desire to see Christians who have brought their faith to bear on every aspect of who they are: their minds and emotions, their actions, and their relationships—and also their work. It can often seem like the church is the primary way to serve God, but that’s not how the Bible portrays work.

In this episode, we hear from the executive director of the faith and work organization Made to Flourish. His name is Matt Rusten and he is sitting down with Upper House's executive director, John Terrill, to talk about the importance of “closing the gap between Sunday and Monday”—erasing the artificial lines many Christians draw between the church and work life, and between sacred and secular work.

Matt Rusten received his master of divinity degree from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and has served in churches in North Dakota, the Chicago area, and Kansas City. Before entering his current role as exec director of Made to Flourish, he was pastor of spiritual formation at Blackhawk Church here in Madison.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: Music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

We live in polarizing times that seem to affect every corner of our society. Could the solution to polarization be friendship? That’s what this episode’s guest proposes. We’re listening in on a recent talk delivered at Upper House by sociologist Angel Adams Parham, titled “Civic Friendship & Christian Faith in Polarized Times.” While it might sound trite to say all we need is friendship, Angel challenges us to engage with a tradition of thinking about civic and political friendship stretching from ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle to contemporary political theorist Danielle Allen. Angel asks each of us to explore intellectual and spiritual topics in the context of friendship and community.

Angel Adams Parham is Associate Professor of Sociology and senior fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies in Culture (IASC) at the University of Virginia. In July she co-authored with Anika Prather The Black Intellectual Tradition: Reading Freedom in Classical Literature.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: Music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

How does our thinking, expectations, social pressures we feel shape our roles in life? Upper House's Susan Smetzer-Anderson and Christina Lee Kim—author of an essay titled "The 'Good' Mother" (in a new book released by IVP, titled Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy) honestly discuss the importance of unmasking the ideologies that compel our choice-making. Christina's authentic sharing of her own experience as a mother and professional academic—combined with her astute and research-based observations about powerful assumptions about motherhood that permeate families and cultures—make for a conversation that is both particular and broad in its relevance.

Christina Lee Kim is an associate professor of psychology at Biola University and a licensed clinical psychologist. In addition to teaching, she researches cross-cultural and multicultural psychology, mental health issues and the church, and Asian-American psychology. Dr. Kim and her husband and their three daughters reside in Fullerton, CA and are members of Crossway OC church, where Dr. Kim serves as one of the worship leaders.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: Music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Our tagline at Upper House is Think-Be-Do, which is a nod to our understanding that God cares deeply about us as whole people: what we think, who we are, and what we do. In this episode, Fellows Program Director, Eric Carlsson, discusses with biblical scholar J. Richard Middleton his personal journey exploring the concept of calling, and the advice he has for understanding what God is calling us to be and do.  

J. Richard Middleton is professor of Biblical Worldview and Exegesis at Northeastern Seminary and adjunct professor of Theology at Roberts Wesleyan College, both in Rochester, New York. He is widely published in religious journals and is the author of four books, including Abraham’s Silence: The Binding of Isaac, the Suffering of Job, and How to Talk Back to God, and A New Heaven and a New Earth: Reclaiming Biblical Eschatology. 

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org. 

Credits: Music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

We all have a conscience, but what is it and where does it come from? In this episode, Dan interviews fellow historian Peter Cajka, who has recently published Follow Your Conscience: The Catholic Church and the Spirit of the Sixties. In this conversation, we explore the history of Christian thinking about the conscience and the parallels and incongruities in the Catholic and Protestant perspectives.

Peter Cajka is Assistant Teaching Professor and Director of Undergraduate Studies in the Department of American Studies at the University of Notre Dame. His research focuses on American Catholicism, the history of ideas, and the history of sexuality.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: Music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this callback episode to 2020, we listen in on an interview with author Marilyn McEntyre, hosted by our Director of Programming, Melissa Shackelford. They discuss the immense power of words, and the ways in which they are used to high effect, but also often abused. They explored the effect of allusion, metaphor, euphemizing, and the ways in which we muddle distinct language from different contexts into one.

Marilyn McEntyre is an author and teacher who has taught for decades on a variety of topics related to writing, language, and the humanities. She’s written many books covering a wide range of topics including her book, “Speaking Peace in a Time of Conflict,” which is covered in part in this episode.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Preaching is one of those things that can often be hit or miss. A person can be captivated, moved and even changed, but other times you have to fight to stay awake after 10 minutes into a message. Powerful preaching is something this week’s guest specializes in. We hosted a recent event at Upper House “Thinking Theologically About These Times” and we took advantage of having the guest speaker, Rev. Dr. William Curtis, in-house to hear his story.

William Curtis is a native of Baltimore. Since 1997, he has served as the Senior Pastor at Mount Ararat Baptist Church in Pittsburgh, PA. Dr. Curtis holds degrees from Morgan State University, and Howard University School of Divinity, and a Doctor of Ministry from United Theological Seminary. Aside from being a pastor, he is co-owner of The Church Online, a technology, and full-service marketing firm that provides services all over the world.

This episode's guest interviewer, who you’ll hear first in the interview, is Dr. Marcus Allen, pastor of Madison’s own Mt Zion Baptist Church. Dr. Allen also serves on Upper House’s local advisory council and is one of our favorite partners in the city of Madison.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Gene Zubovich, author of the new book, Before the Religious Right: Liberal Protestants, Human Rights, and the Polarization of the United States, sits down with Dan Hummel to explore the history of liberal Protestantism and its impact on American politics through the lens of social welfare, race relations, and international relations. They take a historical journey that touches on important leaders and ideas, and follow how the movement evolved through the second half of the 20th century.

Gene is an Assistant Professor of History at the University at Buffalo (part of the State University of NY schools) and holds a PhD from the University of California, Berkley. He completed his post-doctoral work at the John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Jesse Koopman, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

For this next installment of From the Vault (highlighting past talks at Upper House), we're stretching all the way back to February 2020 for a unique (and uniquely tasty!) event featuring food writer and James Beard Award winner Adrian Miller. An expert in all things soul food and BBQ, Adrian weaves into his presentation a mix of theology, history, culinary knowledge, and a passion for justice.  

Besides being a writer and food critic, Adrian Miller is the Executive Director of the Colorado Council of Churches. He's the author of numerous books including Black Smoke: African Americans and the United States of Barbecue (2021).

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

For this return of From the Vault (highlighting talks at Upper House), we're listening to a March 2022 event featuring theologian A.J. Swoboda. Swaboda argues that doubt and questioning, rather than signs of faithlessness, present us with an an opportunity to deconstruct and reconstruct our ideas and beliefs—to deepen in understanding about who we are and what we believe about God. For the video of this event, check it out here.

A.J Swoboda is an assistant professor of Bible, theology, and world Christianity at Bushnell University, which is in Eugene, Oregon. He also leads a Doctor of Ministry program on leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary. Swoboda is the author of several books, including After Doubt: How to Question Your Faith without Losing It (Brazos Press, 2021), the award-winning Subversive Sabbath: The Surprising Power of Rest in a Nonstop World (Brazos Press, 2018), and The Dusty Ones: Why Wandering Deepens Your Faith (Baker Press, 2016).

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this thought-provoking episode, host Jean Geran sits down with guest Gar Anderson to explore the concept of Christian citizenship through the lens of the early church. Drawing from Gar’s recent lecture in Oshkosh, the conversation delves into how early Christians—most of whom lacked formal citizenship—navigated life under the Roman Empire. Rather than seeking political power, they transformed society through radical love, community care, and allegiance to Christ.

Gar and Jean discuss:

• The historical context of citizenship in the Roman Empire
• The difference between patriotism and indifference in Christian political engagement
• Jesus’ teaching on rendering to Caesar and God
• Lessons from Paul’s use of Roman citizenship to expose injustice
• Practical examples of loving one’s neighbor in everyday life

📚 Recommended Resources

Books Mentioned:

• Christians as the Romans Saw Them by Robert Wilken (Oxford University Press, 1984)
• The Rise of Christianity by Rodney Stark (HarperOne, 1996)
• Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado (Baylor University Press, 2016)
• Strange Religion by Nijay Gupta (Brazos Press, 2023)
• The Patient Ferment of the Early Church by Alan Kreider (Baker Academic, 2016)

Ancient Text Highlighted:

• Letter to Diognetus (c. 125–150 AD) — A second-century Christian apology describing the distinctiveness of Christian life and allegiance. Link = https://storage2.snappages.site/6X3R8B/assets/files/The-Epistle-to-Diognetus.pdf

Other Podcast Episodes Mentioned

·     Christian Citizenship in a Pluralistic World | Chris Seiple (August 4, 2025) https://player.captivate.fm/episode/1fedbb2c-6c00-47d3-bc40-a1cc9a367d84/

·     Faith, Citizenship, and Dissent: Lessons from 18th–19th Century Britain | Michael Rutz (August 18, 2025) https://player.captivate.fm/episode/8fa1fc18-402f-4271-afc8-9e4bf9a73c13/

🔗 Watch & Subscribe

🎧 Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast on your favorite podcast app to stay updated.

Susan talks with Catherine Prescott about the fascinating world of portrait painting and the intellectual and spiritual tensions that reside in the work. For more of Catherine's art, see her personal website.

Check out Catherine's recent Upper House talk, as well as the sessions by Alex Miranda, Wayne Roosa, and Asher Imtiaz.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

John welcomes Steve Preston, CEO of Goodwill Industries, for a conversation that ranges from Steve's childhood in Janesville, WI to his leadership of U.S. federal agencies. On the way they explore how God enabled Steve, and enables each of us, to make unexpected career choices in the service of a higher calling.

Steve's April 2022 talk at Upper House is viewable here: "Leading through Crisis with Vision and Care."

Steve Preston is the president and CEO of Goodwill Industries International, a federation of local organizations with over 125,000 employees. Previously, Steve headed two federal agencies during times of national crisis—U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development and U.S. Small Business Administration. He has also served as the CEO of two private corporations, and as the CFO of two Fortune 500 companies. Steve graduated from Northwestern University and holds an MBA from The University of Chicago, and is a native of Janesville, WI.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Susan speaks with psychologist Cynthia Eriksson about the topic of suffering: how to make sense of suffering and ways social scientists have sought to understand the relationship between faith in God and coping with suffering. The conversation centers on a few forthcoming papers co-authored by Cynthia and then moves into a variety of topics.

Cynthia Eriksson is associate professor of psychology and chair of Fuller’s PsyD program Doctor of Psychology in Clinical Psychology. Many articles published that are accessible on Researchgate and through her own faculty page at Fuller.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Dan Johnson sits down with Drew Moser, who visited Upper House last month. They talk about on Drew's passion area, the Enneagram personality typology, and how deeper understandings of personality types can lead to stronger relationships and fuller lives. 

Drew Moser, Ph.D., is a certified enneagram teacher, a professional member of the International Enneagram Association, and Dean of Student Engagement and Professor of Higher Education at Taylor University. Drew's most recent book is The Enneagram of Discernment: The Way of Vocation, Wisdom, and Practice. His work on the Enneagram can be found at Type Trail, and Drew co-hosts his own podcast called Fathoms.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

John sits down with Christopher James to discuss church planting in the twenty-first century, the challenges facing churches old and young, and ultimately their shared optimism and hope for church renewal. They discuss Chris's book, Church Planting in Post-Christian Soil (Oxford, 2016) and the Awaken Dane grant that Upper House is co-leading with Chris and Dubuque Theological Seminary, the Wisconsin Council of Churches, and the Collaboration Project.

Rev. Dr. Christopher B. James is Associate Professor of Evangelism and Missional Christianity at University of Dubuque Theological Seminary. There he leads the Master of Mission and Discipleship degree. He holds a Ph.D. in Practical Theology from Boston University School of Theology, a M.Div. from Fuller Theological Seminary, and a B.A. from Wheaton College.

For more information about Awaken Dane and/or joining a future cohort, please contact Johnna Georgia at georgia@wichurches.org or by phone at (608) 837-3108 Ext. 29.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

John sits down with Rev. Kerri Parker to discuss everything from Kerri’s childhood and education to her recent work with the Wisconsin Council of Churches on forming church responses to COVID-19.

Rev. Kerri Parker is the Executive Director of the Wisconsin Council of Churches, a position she has held since 2017. Prior to leading the WCC, Kerri served as pastor of McFarland UCC in McFarland, WI and as executive director of YWCA Rock County in Janesville.

For more information about Awaken Dane and/or to join a future cohort, please contact Johnna Georgia at georgia@wichurches.org or by phone at (608) 837-3108 Ext. 29.

We mentioned at the top how we enjoy interviewing ministers at work in our community, such as John's conversation with Rev. Kirk Morledge from last year.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

This episode features a recent conversation hosted virtually by the Awaken Dane initiative with noted author Parker Palmer. The discussion centers on belonging and the sense of lost belonging that pervades modern church life. Parker offers wisdom and examples from his own career on how churches can be agents of strengthening community and belonging today. Interviewing Parker are Phil Haslanger, retired pastor and journalist recently inducted into the Wisconsin Newspaper Hall of Fame, and Rebecca Cooks, Upper House's Hospitality and Student Enrichment Manager.

Parker J. Palmer is a writer, speaker and activist who focuses on issues in education, community, leadership, spirituality and social change. He is founder and Senior Partner Emeritus of the Center for Courage & Renewal. He is the author of ten books—including several award-winning titles—including: Healing the Heart of Democracy (2011) and Let Your Life Speak (1999). He holds a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at Berkeley, as well as thirteen honorary doctorates, two Distinguished Achievement Awards from the National Educational Press Association, and an Award of Excellence from the Associated Church Press.

For more information about Awaken Dane and/or joining a future cohort, please contact Johnna Georgia at georgia@wichurches.org or by phone at (608) 837-3108 Ext. 29.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

This week Dan talks to historian and UW-alumnus David Harrisville about his new book, The Virtuous Wehrmacht: Crafting the Myth of the German Soldier on the Eastern Front, 1941-1944 (Cornell, 2021). David's research examines the moral and religious worlds of rank-and-file German soldiers during World War II, raising profound questions about the ways humans justify their behavior and how religious commitment shapes action.

At the end of the conversation David mentions some recommended further readings on morality, war, and the Wehrmacht, hyperlinked here by author: Michael Walzer, Omer Bartov, Ben Shepherd, and Wolfram Wette. For digital maps made by David to accompany the book, see here.

David Harrisville is a graduate of Carleton College and the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he earned an MA and PhD in Modern European History. David has been a postdoctoral fellow at UW-Madison and a visiting assistant professor at Furman University. He currently works for Legal Services Corporation.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Featured for the second time on the podcast, Christine Jeske joins John to talk about the anatomy of a crisis, thinking through the concept both theologically and in relation to contemporary crises in our world. Christine calls Christians not just to work to survive, but to "ask God how to fully turn to him amid the dangers, the revelation, and the opportunities of a crisis." We also learn about unique insights of the field anthropology and Christine's wider field of work.

Christine Jeske is an associate professor of cultural anthropology at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill. Her most recent book is The Laziness Myth: Narratives of Work and the Good Life in South Africa (Cornell, 2020) (see episode 8 of the podcast featuring a talk Christine gave about the book at Upper House). The topic of discussion in this episode is her article "What is a Crisis?" in When the Universe Cracks: Living as God’s People in Times of Crisis (NavPress, 2021).

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app and send us comments and suggestions at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Dan Johnson is joined by Justin Early to discuss the importance of practices, rhythms, and habits to a healthy life with God, and a healthy family life. Justin calls us to embrace a true freedom—not just the absence of all limitations—in relation to practices of worship and service to God.

Justin Earley is a lawyer and author. His books included The Common Rule: Habits of Purpose for an Age of Distraction and Habits of the Household: Practicing the Story of God in Everyday Family Rhythms. More about his work and projects can be found here.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this rich and inspiring episode, host Daniel Johnson welcomes back guest Byron Borger to discuss transformative books for the fall season. Byron shares a curated list of titles that speak to theology, culture, education, memoir, and spiritual formation—perfect for students, readers, and lifelong learners. The conversation explores how books can shape our faith, deepen our understanding of culture, and equip us for meaningful engagement in the academy and beyond.

➡️ 📚 Featured Book Recommendations

🎓 For Students & Educators

• Why Study History? by John Fea (Baker Academic, 2024)
• Learning to Love: Christian Higher Education as Pilgrimage by Alex Sosler (Falls City Press, 2023)
• The Art of Asking Better Questions by J.R. Briggs (IVP, 2025)
• Everything is Never Enough: Ecclesiastes' Surprising Path to Resilient Happiness by Bobby Jamieson (Penguin Random House, 2025)

🌍 On Culture & Theology

• The Way of Christ in Culture: A Vision for All of Life by Benjamin Quinn & Dennis Greeson (B&H Academic, 2024)
• The Core of the Christian Faith: Living the Gospel for the Sake of the World by Michael Goheen (Brazos Press, 2025)
• Culture Making by Andy Crouch (IVP, 2008)
• He Shines in All That’s Fair: Culture and Common Grace by Richard Mouw (Eerdmans, 2002)
• Creation Regained: Biblical Basics for a Reformational Worldview by Albert Wolters (Eerdmans, 2005)

🕊️ Spiritual Formation

• Slow Theology: Eight Practices for Resilient Faith in a Turbulent World by A.J. Swoboda & Nijay Gupta (Brazos Press, 2025)
• You Can Trust a God with Scars: Faith (and Doubt) for the Searching Soul by Jared Ayers (NavPress, 2025)

👥 Memoirs & Personal Narratives

• I'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness by Austin Channing Brown (Convergent Books, 2018)
• Full of Myself: Black Womanhood and the Journey to Self-Possession by Austin Channing Brown (Convergent Books, 2025)
• The Exact Place by Margie Haack (Deep River Books, 2012)
• Surrender: 40 Songs, One Story by Bono (Knopf, 2022)

💬 Key Themes

• The Gospel of the Kingdom and its cultural implications
• Christian higher education as a journey of love and formation
• Asking better questions as a spiritual and relational practice
• Engaging culture thoughtfully and faithfully
• The power of memoirs to cultivate empathy and self-reflection
• Slowing down to deepen theological understanding and resilience

🔗 Resources & Links

• Hearts & Minds Bookstore = https://www.heartsandmindsbooks.com
• SL Brown Foundation = https://slbf.org

Melissa speaks with public theologian and baker Kendall Vanderslice about the intersection of food and theology, food and church life, and the new practice of dinner churches. 

Kendall Vanderslice is a graduate of Duke Divinity School (Master of Theological Studies), Boston University (MLA Gastronomy), and Wheaton College (BA Anthropology). In 2018, she was named a James Beard Foundation national scholar for her work bridging food and religion. Kendall is the author of We Will Feast: Rethinking Dinner, Worship, and the Community of God. Learn more at www.kendallvanderslice.com and www.edibletheology.com.

Kendall spoke at Upper House in November: "We Will Feast: Rethinking Dinner, Worship, and the Community of God." 

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Susan speaks with author Alice Fryling about her new book, Aging Faithfully: The Holy Invitation of Growing Older. The conversation ranges from "unlearning" old ways as we grow older to the beauty of rest and meditation. 

Alice Fryling is a spiritual director and author of numerous books on relationships and spiritual formation, including the popular Mirror for the Soul: A Christian Guide to the Enneagram. She and her husband, Bob, have two married daughters and four grandchildren. They live in Monument, Colorado.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Eric speaks with historian Tal Howard about Tal's new book, The Faith of Others: A History of Interreligious Dialogue (Yale University Press, 2021). They cover Tal's background with the study of history and then embark on the book's three main case studies of interreligious dialogue: Chicago's World Parliament of Religions in 1893, London's Conference on Some Living Religions within the Empire in 1924, and Vatican II's Nostra Aetate in 1965.

Thomas Albert (Tal) Howard is Professor of Humanities and History and holder of the Duesenberg Chair in Christian Ethics at Valparaiso University, where he is affiliated with Christ College, Valparaiso’s interdisciplinary honors college. He also serves as Senior Fellow for the Lilly Fellows Program in Humanities and the Arts. He is the author or editor of several books, including The Pope and the Professor: Pius IX, Ignaz von Döllinger, and the Quandary of the Modern Age (Oxford, 2017).

As an additional recommended reading with upper House connections, see Charles Cohen's The Abrahamic Religions: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford University Press, 2020). Chuck spoke about his book at Upper House in February 2020. The audio for that talk is available here.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Lea Schweitz (Upper House's Visiting Theologian for our Higher Pursuits Project) sits down with sociologist Felicia Wu Song to discuss technology, personhood, and spiritual practices, as well as Felicia's new book, Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence and Place in the Digital Age (IVP, 2021). 

Felicia Wu Song (PhD, University of Virginia) is a cultural sociologist of media and digital technologies, currently serving as professor of sociology at Westmont College in Santa Barbara. 

Lea Schweitz (PhD, University of Chicago) is the co-founder of Nature120, a non-profit organization that provides nature play and airway therapy for children on Chicago’s west side and in the western suburbs; she also is the Director of Children’s Education for Yorkfield Presbyterian Church. Previously she was a tenured professor at the Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago and directed the Zygon Center for Religion and Science.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Returning to our ongoing conversations with Christian artists, Bruce Herman and Bobby Gross discuss the insights of modern art on the nature of God and the human condition. Much of the conversation centers on the work of Philip Guston. Many of Guston's works, including those mentioned by Bruce and Bobby, can be viewed here.

Bruce Herman is a painter, speaker, and curator whose art has been shown nationally and internationally in Italy, England, Japan, and Hong Kong. His work is in many public collections, including the Vatican Museums in Rome, Cincinnati Museum of Fine Arts, and the Hammer Museum in L.A. His art and writings have been published in print and online journals. He holds the Lothlórien Distinguished Chair in Fine Arts at Gordon College. Bobby Gross is Vice President for Graduate and Faculty ministries at InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. Bobby is also the author of Living in the Christian Year: Time to Inhabit the Story of God (IVP, 2009).

Bruce was part of the book launch events at Upper House for God in the Modern Wing: Viewing Art with Eyes of Faith, Cameron J. Anderson and G. Walter Hansen, eds. (Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic, 2021). For video of Bruce's presentation at Upper House, see "Welcoming the Mysterious Stranger."

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In a partner episode with journalist Gordon Govier, we hear from Dr. Jodi Magness about her work as an archeologist in the land of the Bible. They cover Jodi's entry into the field of archeology and her research related to Qumran, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and synagogues. If you're interested in seeing Jodi in-person, she will be speaking at Upper House on October 23, 6:30pm on "More than Just Mosaics: The Ancient Synagogue at Huqoq in Israel's Galilee." Register here (this event is in-person with no recording or streaming).

Jodi Magness is the Kenan Distinguished Professor for Teaching Excellence in Early Judaism in the Department of Religious Studies at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. She is the author of many books, including The Archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls, winner of the 2003 Biblical Archaeology Society’s Award for Best Popular Book in Archaeology, and out now in a new second edition. 

Gordon Govier hosts The Book and the Spade, is a biblical archaeology correspondent for Christianity Today, and the editor of ARTIFAX, the biblical archaeology newsmagazine.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this episode, Reverend Mike Winnowski, pastor at Geneva Campus Church in Madison, sits down with the distinguished artist, educator, and art evangelist Steve Prince. They discuss Steve's influences, his deep engagement with Black American history, and the importance of faith to his vocation. Steve was in Madison to help promote a new collected volume, co-edited by Upper House's Associate Director, Cam Anderson: God in the Modern Wing: Viewing Art with Eyes of Faith, Cameron J. Anderson and G. Walter Hansen, eds. (Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic, 2021).

For more on Steve, see his profile page at the College of William and Mary, where he works as the Director of Engagement & Distinguished Artist In Residence.

For video of Steve's presentation at Upper House, see "Illuminating Black Faith, History, and Culture."

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this concluding episode of our Inside Upper House series (for now), the script is flipped and Dan is interviewed by Cam Anderson, Associate Director of Upper House. Dan discusses the work he and others are doing to recover a spiritual or religious understanding of the history of the University of Wisconsin-Madison as part of a John Templeton Foundation-funded grant. The opinions expressed in this conversation do not reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this special episode, Dan Johnson, Director of Technology and Campus Ministry Engagement at Upper House, takes the reins as host as he reports on campus ministries at UW-Madison.

What happened when the global pandemic forced UW-Madison to pause its in-person instruction, suspending all campus ministries in the process? How has the pandemic affected ministry at UW-Madison?

Dan explores these questions with five campus ministries at UW-Madison. Dan talks with, in order of appearance:

• Fr. Eric Nielsen, Pastor and Executive Director at St. Paul’s University Catholic Center
• Erica Liu, Pastor and Director of Campus Ministry at Pres House
• Jeff Vandenberg, Senior Staff for the Navigators
• Jordan Mancl, Senior Staff for Cru
• Kesha Wilkinson, State Director for the Impact Movement

These five ministers offer five different stories, perspectives, and reflections. They each reflect on the history of their ministries, March 2020 and the transition to virtual ministry, and what they have learned over the last 18 months. They each also discuss their hope for students at UW-Madison in the coming year.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Dan talks with Susan, Upper House's communications manager, on the unique way we understand our thematic areas of interest at Upper House. We call these our pathways. For more on the graphic designer of our pathways imagery, Ned Bustard, see his website here.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this episode, host John Terrill welcomes Elaine Howard Ecklund and Denise Daniels to discuss their new book, Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work. Drawing from extensive research, including surveys of over 16,000 people and nearly 300 interviews, Elaine and Denise explore how Christians can live out their faith in the workplace with integrity, courage, and compassion.

• The Double-Edged Nature of Calling: How a sense of calling can both inspire and blind us to workplace injustices.
• Faith in a Pluralistic Workplace: Navigating religious diversity while remaining true to Christian convictions.
• Radical Embrace: The central thesis of the book—engaging others with respect and openness, even across belief systems.

Five Core Tensions:

1. Secular vs. Sacred Work
2. Protecting Ourselves vs. Protecting Others
3. Individual Ethics vs. Systems Thinking
4. Restrictive Gender Roles vs. Flourishing Together
5. Verbal Proclamation vs. Principled Pluralism
6. (Bonus Tension: Work vs. Rest/Sabbath)

• The Role of Rest: Why Sabbath matters and how to integrate rhythms of rest into daily life.
• Empirical Insights: Surprising data on who feels called to their work—and who doesn’t.

• Only 1 in 5 Christians surveyed feel a strong sense of calling in their work.
• People in service-oriented or nonprofit roles report higher levels of calling than those in finance or knowledge work.
• Those with more organizational power are more likely to feel called—but higher income does not correlate with calling.

• Elaine Howard Ecklund is the Herbert S. Autrey Chair in Social Sciences, professor of sociology, and director of the Boniuk Institute at Rice University.
• Denise Daniels is Hudson T. Harrison Professor of Entrepreneurship at Wheaton College.

📺 Watch & Subscribe

• 🎧 Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast on your favorite podcast app to stay updated.

• Visit https://slbf.org/ for more about the SL Brown Foundation and Upper House.
• Explore the book: Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work (available now). https://www.ivpress.com/working-for-better

John sits down with Kirk Morledge, pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Waunakee, WI, to celebrate thirty years in the pulpit and a career of service that includes multiple tours abroad as a U.S. Navy chaplain. Rev. Kirk reflects on his childhood in Madison, his call to ministry, the idea of "institutional ministry," and the many lessons he's learned as a pastor and leader.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

How does Upper House come up with ideas for the programs we host? In this episode of Inside Upper House, Dan, Dan, and Melissa discuss the ways they each generate ideas, connect those ideas with Upper House audiences, and coordinate together to make up the program team. Cherck out our upcoming programs at upperhouse.org/events. 

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Dan talks with historian David Fields, associate director of the Center for East Asian Studies at UW-Madison. They discuss David's background and training and then dive into his 2019 book, Foreign Friends: Syngman Rhee, American Exceptionalism, and the Division of Korea (University Press of Kentucky). For more on David see his personal website, including his "epic rap battle" between Syngman Rhee, Harry Truman, and Joseph Stalin. For more on the digital teaching project David and Dan co-lead, see Voices & Visions.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Dan Johnson, our Director of Technology and Campus Ministry Engagement, shares about the ecosystem of campus ministries at UW-Madison and the ways Upper House's work complements them.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Greg Cootsona talks with psychologist Pamela Ebstyne King on her new book, co-authored with Justin Barrett, Thriving with Stone Age Minds: Evolutionary Psychology, Christian Faith, and the Quest for Human Flourishing (IVP Academic, 2021). They cover topics ranging from King's concept of "the reciprocating self" to the ways Christians can constructively engage with evolutionary psychology. Greg and Pamela end with theological reflections on human flourishing.

Pamela Ebstyne King is the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science and PhD Program Chair in Psychological Science (Non-clinical) at Fuller Theological Seminary. She is the author of numerous books, including The Reciprocating Self: Human Development in Theological Perspective (IVP Academic, 2005).

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Dan talks to the Co-directors of Science for the Church, Greg Cootsona and Drew Rick-Miller. We take the occasion here to focus on their organization, its mission, and its partnership with Upper House. Sign up for Science for the Church's weekly newsletter here.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this Upper House virtual event from earlier this year, Dr. Edgardo Rosado of the Ciencia, Fe y Esperanza Initiative speaks with Greg Cootsona, co-founder of Science for the Church. They discuss the particular ways faith and science are understood in Hispanic/Latinx communities, and Edgardo's research into attitudes among Philadelphia-area Latinx Christians. They also discuss contrasting Reformed and Wesleyan understandings of faith and science.

Edgardo Rosado is a pastor, scholar, and community leader. In addition to being Associate Project Director at Esperanza’s Ciencia, Fe y Esperanza initiative, Edgardo is Adjunct Professor at Nazarene Bible College, Visiting Scholar at European Nazarene College, and Executive Pastor with the Nazarene church in Media, PA. He holds a PhD and MA in Pastoral Leadership and a BA in Biblical Studies, all from the Inter-American University of Puerto Rico.

This event was hosted by Upper House in June 2021 as "Science, Race, and Faith: Insights from Hispanic Congregations." We hosted an earlier event in this same series last year, now on youtube: "Science, Race, and the Church: A Conversation about Repentance and Redemption."

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this Upper House talk from September 2018, Dr. Praveen Sethupathy explains the science surrounding gene editing, CRISPR technology, and the ethical implications of gene editing from a Christian perspective. Dr. Sethupathy weighs both the promise of this technology to fight genetic diseases and improve human wellbeing, and the perils of  easier and faster capabilities for humans to modify the genome. 

Praveen Sethupathy is an Associate Professor in the Department of Biomedical Sciences at Cornell University. He also directs the Center for Vertebrate Genomics. With of 100 peer-reviewed articles, Dr. Sethupathy is a leading genomicist studying ribonucleic acids (RNAs) and disease etiology.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

John talks with Mark Elsdon, pastor, entrepreneur, author, and a fellow religious worker on the campus of UW-Madison. Mark discusses his life and his new book, We Aren’t Broke: Uncovering Hidden Resources for Mission and Ministry (Eerdmans, 2021).

Mark is the Executive Director at Pres House, Co-Founder of RootedGood, and owner of Elsdon Strategic Consulting. He is also president of the board of directors for Working Capital for Community Needs, based in Madison to provide micro-finance for the working poor in Latin America.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

John and Jean discuss the recent learning cohort they led on Faith & Co. Season 2 (all documentary films available for free), as well as Upper House's broader mission to marketplace leaders in Madison and beyond. 

John interviewed two of the creators of Faith & Co. in an earlier episode of the podcast: "Business on Purpose" with Randy Franz and Kenman Wong.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

In this episode, host Jean Geran speaks with guest historian Michael Rutz about the historical experience of British Protestant dissenters in the 18th and 19th centuries. Drawing from his book The British Zion: Congregationalism, Politics and Empire, 1790–1850, Dr. Rutz explores how dissenting Christian communities navigated issues of religious liberty, education, social activism, and citizenship under an Anglican state church.

Who Were the Dissenters?

• Protestant groups (Congregationalists, Baptists, Quakers, Presbyterians) who refused to conform to the Church of England.
• Faced legal discrimination and second-class civic status.

Education and the Dissenting Academies

• Creation of alternative institutions to educate ministers and laypeople.
• Emphasis on practical, Enlightenment-influenced curriculum including science, history, and civic engagement.

Rational vs. Evangelical Dissenters

• Rational dissenters embraced Enlightenment ideals and supported revolutionary causes.
• Evangelical dissenters focused on personal conversion, biblical authority, and social activism.

Religious Liberty and Political Reform

• Campaigns to repeal discriminatory laws like the Test and Corporation Acts.
• Advocacy for religious freedom as a core Christian and civic principle.

Missions and Abolition

• Evangelical dissenters played key roles in foreign missions and anti-slavery movements.
• Missionary work in places like the Cape Colony led to campaigns for civil equality for indigenous populations.

Coalition Building Across Faith Lines

• Groups like the Clapham Sect united Anglicans and dissenters around shared goals like abolition.
• Lessons for today: working across theological and political divides for common good.

Michael A. Rutz, Ph.D. is a Professor of History at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Since joining UWO’s history faculty in 2002, he has built a distinguished career as a scholar of 19th- and 20th-century Great Britain, the British Empire, religion and politics. Dr. Rutz earned his Ph.D. and M.A. in History from Washington University in St. Louis, and a B.A., with high honors in History, from the University of Michigan. His major publications include The British Zion: Congregationalism, Politics, and Empire (2011) and King Leopold’s Congo and the “Scramble for Africa” (2018); he has also published several articles on the intersection of religion and politics in 19c Britain and the British empire and is a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society.

• The British Zion: Congregationalism, Politics and Empire, 1790–1850 by Michael Rutz (Baylor University Press, 2011)
• https://www.baylorpress.com/9781602582057/the-british-zion/

• Learn more about the S.L. Brown Foundation and Upper House: https://slbf.org/

In this talk from Upper House's "Worked Up" conference in March, Paige Wiley of Made to Flourish debunks myths surrounding the meaning work, calling, and vocation. Drawing on her own experience as a recent graduate and on a biblical framework to understand work, Paige offers helpful tips and profound wisdom for anyone looking for discernment. Paige mentions the 'Worked Up" conference workbook a few times--if you are interested in this material email us at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

The podcast periodically features past talks and speakers from Upper House's program archive. We're now making this a recurring series, "From the Vault." Upper House has hosted hundreds of events in our six years of operation and we're hopeful that much of the wisdom shared here remains useful today.

Check out upperhouse.org/events to register for upcoming events at Upper House, including our June 24 virtual event "Science, Race, and Faith: Insights from Hispanic Congregations." For our first event in our Science, Race, and the Church series, see here.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

Dan sits down with Karl Johnson, executive director of the Consortium of Christian Study Centers, to discuss the bigger movement of study centers that Upper House belongs to. We mention the recently published history of the Christian study center movement by Charlie Cotherman, To Think Christianly: A History of L'Abri, Regent College, and the Christian Study Center Movement (IVP, 2020). 

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.

John talks with author and pastor Mark Buchanan on his new book, God Walk: Moving at the Speed of Your Soul. They discuss the spiritual practice of walking in historic Christianity up to the present, and the ways that movement is at the core of Jesus' call to "follow me." For more on Mark Buchanan, see his personal website.

As always we invite you to leave us a rating on your favorite podcast app or send us a comment at podcast@slbrownfoundation.org.

Credits: music by Micah Behr, audio engineering by Andy Johnson, graphic design by Madeline Ramsey.