Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.
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S5E17- Ashley Semmens: The Clearance Diver who is finning the English Channel
Season 5 · Episode 59
Saturday, May 31, 2025 • Duration 01:08:48
Ashley Semmens is a former Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diver who served for 18 years, specialising in explosive ordnance disposal. He has deployed multiple times, including to Afghanistan, and participated in Australia's military withdrawal in 2021. After surviving trauma from an IED attack, a sniper incident, and a horrific shark attack aftermath in Sydney Harbour, Ashley was medically discharged due to PTSD. Now, he's preparing to swim the English Channel — not just any swim, but on his back, using fins. It's a fundraising mission for the Navy Clearance Diver Trust and a deeply personal journey into fear, resilience, and purpose.
In this episode, Ash opens up about overcoming fear of the water, losing close mates, post-service mental health, and how he’s turning pain into a platform for support and recovery.
Key Moments
00:00 – Ben and Tim intro the episode and Ash’s unique goal: finning across the English Channel
01:14 – Comparison to Sam Penny’s Channel swim (Season 1, Episode 27)
01:40 – Ash’s clearance diving background and fear of water after trauma
02:45 – Military and Afghanistan service; PTSD and recovery journey
04:00 – Ash joins the conversation, starts with early life and growing up in Adelaide
06:00 – Competitive swimming as a teen; early struggles and successes
07:45 – 2003: Racing against Grant Hackett at Nationals
09:18 – Backstroke vs freestyle debate; Ash’s short course gold medal (with caveats)
10:00 – Natural transition to the Navy from competitive sport
11:01 – Joining as a direct entry diver and diver vs boatswain's mate decision
12:01 – Clearance Diver selection process explained — 10 days of being wet, sandy, and psychologically tested
14:07 – What Ash learned about focus, fatigue, and resilience during selection
15:00 – 2009 shark attack incident: Ash explains what happened to Paul de Gelder
17:34 – Ash’s role in the aftermath: trauma from cleaning the boat, psychological impact
18:29 – Lingering fear of large bodies of water, even lakes
20:00 – Later incident at Jervis Bay: panic before dive leads to difficult team moment
21:12 – Realisation of responsibility and shame around not seeking help
22:30 – Stigma and lack of psychological support during service
23:45 – What clearance divers do: diving, EOD, underwater repair, and land-based ops
25:16 – How Ash ended up doing EOD work in Afghanistan despite being too junior
27:22 – Becoming the most junior sailor to deploy for combat operations in Afghanistan
28:46 – Motivation to deploy: “It’s like a footballer wanting to play a grand final”
29:00 – Getting targeted by an IED during deployment
31:30 About the Bushmaster
34:42 Pressure builds up
39:30 PTSD, cracks, symptoms and care
44:00 ‘More to live for’ – side story
49:10 Medical discharge… and there are no protective factors in the military uniform
With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify
S5E16 – Jade MacDonald Razvi: Freediving and ‘EH4AR’
Season 5 · Episode 58
Thursday, October 31, 2024 • Duration 01:33:16
Jade MacDonald Razvi is a prominent Australian free diver and occupational therapist. She holds the second deepest dive in Australian history and recently won a bronze medal at the Free Diving World Cup. On this episode we talk about Jade’s growing up and freediving- how it works and how she trains.
As well as EH4AR (‘everything happens for a reason').
00:40 Starts with Ben’s hijack!
04:15 Jade on her lineage and growing up.
07:15 Sign language demonstration for the podcast audience
11:45 Jade’s swimming background- swimming into life! And swim times. And injuries.
19:00 What is an OT?
23:58 What is freediving?
25:20 Mermaids and Merbutlers
30:05 How Jade got into freediving and explaining competitions
39:00 How Jade rains for freediving…. without deep water.
46:30 Professional freedivers- are they a thing?
48:45 Breaking records!
1:01:33 How does Jade get herself through profound discomfort?
1:04:20 Applying a mantra and meditation in her diving
1:10:15 Can you lose the edge?
1:12:15 What is Jade’s limit?
1:14:00 EH4AR… Jade explains
1:18:20 Book recommendations and audiobook
1:20:45 Jade’s Power song and country music
1:23:25 Underwater predators
S5E7 – MAJGEN Justin “Jake” Ellwood DSC AM CSC – On Running (an Army Division, the Queensland Reconstruction Authority….and in general!)
Season 5 · Episode 12
Thursday, April 25, 2024 • Duration 01:15:35
As a special Anzac Day release, please enjoy our chat with MAJGEN (ret’d) Jake Ellwood. Jake is currently the Chief Executive Officer of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority, a role which puts him at the forefront of reconstruction and resilience within the state, particularly in the face of relentless natural disasters. And he’s definitely the man for the job, having spent a long, distinguished and varied first career within the Army, rising to the rank of Major General. In this episode, Jake talks to the boys about his early days, the highlights of his Army career, his philosophy of leadership and character and what he thinks can make a community resilient.
05:20 Straight out of the gate – why ‘Jake’?!
07:30 Jake’s military background, from a private in the Army Reserve….to a Major General in the fulltime Army (including run-ins with both hosts at various points in his career!)
12:00 From such a long, varied and distinguished career, what are the standout moments?
15:48 Jake’s view on character as an indispensable leadership quality… and the role of ethics within this
27:30 Are ‘kids these days’ less resilient than we used to be back in the day?
32:26 Jake’s current role as the CEO of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority
36:30 What are communities doing well to ensure their resilience against – and during – natural disasters?
42:10 What does Jake do for himself? (Answer: Running!)
45:05 The mental aspects of running – and how to overcome the mental difficulties of running
48:30 Jake on running the 2018 Boston Marathon (renowned as one of the most miserable Bostons ever! Check this out!)
52:44 Jake on , its beginnings and what it means to him
S5E6 – Dr. Luana Main – The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of stress and (over)training
Season 5 · Episode 11
Monday, April 22, 2024 • Duration 49:38
This week’s guest is Dr Luana Main, a Senior Lecturer in Applied Sport Science at Deakin University. An athlete herself, Luana’s research focuses on optimizing human performance and, in particular, finding the sweet spot between optimal load and overtraining. She has applied this research in areas including elite sport and the military and talks with Ben and Tim about how we can all apply some of these same concepts in our day-to-day lives.
04:45 Luana’s background – and the third-year uni lecture that sparked her lifelong interest in overtraining syndrome.
07:00 First of all – what is overtraining?!
08:20 There’s a number of biomarkers associated with overtraining, but what are the subjective indications that someone might be overtraining? (PS – based on Luana’s response, there is potential that Tim is overtraining……)
09:30 Are subjective measures of diagnosing overtraining as effective as objective measures?
13:00 How can we get better at the basics, when it comes to lowering our steady state stress load?
14:40 Heart rate variability as a measure of stress
17:00 Discussion on wearables
20:55 What are the non-negotiables when it comes to improving performance? And how exactly do we do these?
25:15 Luana’s work with the military
29:30 The impact of overtraining on cognitive function
33:50 Luana on ‘the good, the bad and the ugly’ of stress
39:00 What areas of research would Luana love to get into next?
41:20 What does Luana do for herself?
External Links
@RV31 - Reconciliation, Travel and Reflections on Guests
Season 5 · Episode 10
Monday, April 8, 2024 • Duration 45:34
Ben and Tim try to remember what an 'RV' actually is.... reconciliation and reflection, before we talk about our respective travel. From Morocco, Barcelona, Chicago, Brisbane, Hobart .... and more!
Then reflections on Jaz Diab, Dr Rob Barbour, Ian Prior and the Festival of Veterans Art.
Then as usual talking rubbish about the perfect Easter Egg, Popcorn from Chicago..... and encouraging outright criticism!
Music:
With thanks to The Externals as well as Ben Frichot
In this episode, Ben and Tim speak to Rachel Vickery. Rachel spent her formative years as a national level gymnast and Commonwealth Games representative for her native New Zealand before training as a respiratory physiotherapist. Drawing from this unique background, Rachel now works to help people increase their performance in domains ranging from NBA basketball to the boardroom. Rachel shares her thoughts on how to deal with stress, both in your daily life and at ‘go time’ and provides a unique insight into some of the pressures faced by athletes and coaches at the elite levels of sport. And to wrap it up, she gives us not just one, but four power songs!
05:11 As customary in season five, the boys bang on about how hot their podcast studio is – and ask Rachel is “Bikram Podcasting” is good for recovery?!
06:30 Rachel’s background – personal, sporting and professional, including her exploits as a national level gymnast
10:40 Good for a Girl – excellent book by US middle distance runner Lauren Fleshman
11:15 The pressure of ‘Growing Up In Lycra’ – training and competing in aesthetic sports, particularly as a female and particularly during puberty
16:00 The devastating impacts of RED-S (Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport)
24:24 A discussion of the importance and impacts of menstruation on female athletic development
28:30 Rachel’s work on a report into the cultural problems inside NZ gymnastics
33:30 We’ve heard of athletes being bullied, but coaches are not immune from bullying either
39:50 The importance of maximising the buffer between steady state and ‘go time’ by lowering your steady state stress – and the potential for ‘fear of success’
S5E4– Creativity Builds Resilience: Artists in Foxholes @fova.org.au
Season 5 · Episode 8
Thursday, March 7, 2024 • Duration 01:03:13
Do you believe that being creativity builds resilience?
Well this week we aim to convince you so get ready. In support of the the upcoming www.fova.org.au we outline how:
when you engage in creative activities, you increase your brain’s capacity for creative thinking, pattern recognition, and developing visual-spatial skills.
These skills enhance your problem-solving abilities in real-life situations
From Ruth Richards (Harvard), “Engaging in creative behaviours, makes us more dynamic, conscious, non-defensive, observant, collaborative, and brave.”
“Everyday creative activity is a path to flourishing”- Conner, DeYoung and Silvia in the Journal of Positive Psychology. Recent experience sampling and diary studies have shown that spending time on creative goals during a day is associated with higher activated positive affect (PA) (flourishing) on that day.
The real question isn't "How creative are you?" but rather "How are you creative?" says educational psychologist Donald Treffinger.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
03:30 Announcement from Mark Johnson from anvam.org.au
04:20 What’s the problem that means we need creativity?
05:50 What is flow state?
09:40 What does the research and literature say?
10:30 “Brave, non-defensive and collaborative”
14:50 Laminate your neural pathways!
18:00 From Tara Swart at MiT…. Expose your brain to novelty
20:20 What is creativity for Tim and Ben?
S5E3– Ian Prior: How Professional Athletes Stay In the Arena
Season 5 · Episode 7
Thursday, February 29, 2024 • Duration 01:36:24
Ian Prior is MORE than just a professional rugby player with over a decade of ‘high speed collisions in confined spaces’. He’s incredibly well read and researched. He meditates and practices journaling. He uses ice baths and loves the beach. He’s about performance and optimisation, but uses that to improve his being a dedicated father and husband.
This is also a story about tenacity. In the early stages of his career Ian was on the fringes of representative and first class rugby. But his determination and commitment to self improvement got him playing across three Super Rugby Franchises for over a decade. He talks about ‘how’ and ‘what’ he does.
We also talk wicked problems and how they apply to Australian Rugby.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
04:00 Start the Bikram Podcast
05:10 Growing Up including in Africa
06:00 Media hasn’t been kind to Zimbabwe- what’s it really like?
08:10 Ian describes his physical stature- and how that fits into rugby
08:50 Superbowl/ NFL v rugby comparison
11:50 Back to Australia after Zimbabwe- school and sport (more of the latter than the former!)
15:05 Are the best sports people generalists or specialists?
16:59 Ian Prior’s three posters on his wall as a kid- Ricky Ponting, Matt Burke and Ben Pronk!?
20:32 Ian gets an opportunity in the Australian U20 rugby side
22:00 Ian Prior hangs up repeatedly on Queensland Red’s coach Ewan McKenzie… and interviewing for the Reds. What three questions did Ewan ask Ian?
- Watkins and Turner
S5E2– Dr Rob Barbour: SAS Doctor Out of Africa
Season 5 · Episode 6
Thursday, February 22, 2024 • Duration 01:23:49
Get a medical degree and then do SAS selection – as a Doctor!? Sounds mad. Well listen in.
Born in Kenya, Dr Rob Barbour spent his formative years in Australia gaining a medical degree and serving in the Australian special forces including on peacekeeping missions.Having never lost his love for his birthplace, Rob migrated to Tanzania to start a socially responsible and community conservation orientated safari operation and a private community conservation area.
Rob subsequently joined Epic Private Journeys as a partner and private guide in Eastern and Southern Africa where he was able to share with Epic's guests his experience and passion for the natural world and local cultures, as well as his belief in poverty alleviation through conservation.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
03:05 Dr Rob Barbour tells the story of growing up in Kenya… and how his family got there! School, farming and childhood adventures.
09:25 Ben has to ask about running…. in Kenya…. And he asks a rugby player!
10:20 The Barbour family considers a move to Australia
11:50 What was eating the livestock!?
12:50 Culture shock- from Kenya to Perth
18:00 Rob is trying to work out what to do after school. Study medicine!
21:20 After medicine Rob thinks about joining the Army- and does!
23:40 Rob is a little lax on entry to the Army
26:20 Rob decides to undertake SAS selection… as a Doctor!
31:00 SAS selection in Rob’s experience
33:33 Tim meets Rob on SAS Selection- Ben reckons it was in the Sick Bay
36:20 What tools does Rob use to keep focussed
29:30 Tools can be simple
S5E1B – Jaz Diab – Special Forces Nuclear Scientist, Nerd and Mum! Part B
Season 5 · Episode 5
Thursday, February 15, 2024 • Duration 56:51
In this episode, we continue our chat with Jaz Diab, the multi-talented former Commanding Officer of the Australian Special Operations Engineer Regiment. Jaz reflects on her experiences as one of the first females in combat roles within Special Operations, before looking at her transition out of the military and subsequent focus on nuclear science. Jaz then talks us through some of the difficulties in progressing the conversation related to nuclear energy in Australia, as well as her role as the President of Women in Nuclear – Australia.
01:30 Was Jaz forging a new path for women through her example in the Army? (Spoiler alert: she absolutely was. We just wanted to see if she thought she was at the time!)
03:50 Reflections on the parallels with Monika Georgieva’s trailblazing role as a female within the infantry corps (check out our episode with Monika back in Season 2 Episode 3)
06:45 Jaz’s role as an Explosive Ordnance Disposal technician – bomb disposal! The pressure of the role – physical and psychological. And just how accurate is the movie The Hurt Locker?!
13:30 Ben goes off on a tangential rant about restocking the fridge when you take a cold beverage….
14:00 Tim brings the conversation back on track by asking about Jaz’s experience as an aide to the Chief of Army
15:00 Reflections from the top – the pressures on leaders of big organisations
21:45 Tim remembers trying to beat the Chief of Army in a run
22:40 Jaz leaves the Army – and gets even more interested in nukes! Plus her reflections on why Australia has such difficulties considering nuclear power as a potential alternative to fossil fuels
26:30 The risks of nuclear power – are they overblown given modern technology? And how can we safely dispose of nuclear waste?
1:04:20 Jake looking forward to running the 2024 Run Army in a week’s time (postscript – while Jake spoke about doing this race at a casual, enjoyable pace, it turns out his version of ‘casual’ is probably different to most of ours – he came in the top 60 in just over 40 minutes!)
31:30 The difference between fission and fusion – and how feasible is cold fusion?
32:30 Jaz’s role as President of Women in Nuclear – Australia
37:00 Being a mum – harder than defusing bombs! Jaz talks to her experience as the mother of a gorgeous little girl with achondroplasia – a form of dwarfism.
41:20 On finding out about her daughter’s condition – and dealing with this news and what it meant for her child
46:00 How has Jaz and her partner worked through these challenges
External Links
ANVAM – Australian National Veterans Arts Museum – www.anvam.org.au
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