Laura Kelly, CPO of Clover Growth Partners, joins Sarah to break down the mindset shifts that separate high-achieving business owners from burned-out ones. From her RPM planning system to the concept of "who, not how," Laura shares the frameworks she uses to run six home service companies, raise two kids, and still show up as her best self — without sacrificing the life she's building along the way.

What does it look like to lead 15 home services franchise brands — and still be excited about every single one of them? In this episode, Sarah and Eric sit down with Beth Toenies, COO of 1-800-BOARD-UP and VP of Franchise Development for BELFOR Franchise Group, to talk all things franchising, growth, and the future of the trades.

Beth breaks down what makes the franchise model so powerful for tradespeople who are great at their craft but want support on the business side. She shares how BELFOR's family of brands — from Ducks and Z Plumbers to Blue Kangaroo Packouts and Redbox+ Dumpsters — are designed to complement each other and create real synergy in local markets.

The conversation also dives into how AI and automation are reshaping operations in the field, why BELFOR is leaning in rather than shying away, and what intentional, sustainable growth actually looks like in franchising.

Whether you're a trade professional curious about business ownership or a franchise enthusiast looking for your next opportunity, this episode is packed with insights, energy, and a few laughs along the way.

On this episode of The TradeMarke Podcast, hosts Sarah Ghirardo and Eric Thomas sit down with franchise matchmaker Adam Goldman to demystify modern franchising, especially in the home services world. Adam has spent 15+ years in the space, from owning an office-cleaning master franchise to placing candidates across 75 industries, with 60 to 70 percent in home services.

You’ll learn what makes a strong franchise candidate, why business development and operational excellence are the twin superpowers, and how owners are thriving with semi-absentee models. Adam breaks down practical growth levers like BNI, referrals, canvassing, and digital channels, and explains the trend of stacking seasonal businesses (think mosquito control plus holiday lighting) to keep teams working year-round. He also tackles the biggest misconceptions: that franchises must be brick-and-mortar and seven figures, and that royalties are a sunk cost rather than a shortcut to proven systems.

We close with Adam’s take on disclosure docs, avoiding conflicts across brands, and why the right playbook can buy back your time.

Listen in, take notes, and check the show notes for Adam’s free consult links and his book, The Franchisee Lifestyle.

It's Thanksgiving week, so we wanted to give our valued listeners a bonus episode to enjoy while you inevitably fall asleep after eating too much turkey. During this episode, we are joined by Thaddeus & Evan from HVAC Success Secrets Revealed. 

This episode was recorded during the Women in HVACR event that took place in Phoenix, Arizona. During their discussion, they talk about inspiration for their podcasts, local marketing ideas, the importance of empowering women in the trades, and much more! 

Also, Eric reveals a that he will be helping lead a marketing summit in Tampa hosted by ServiceTitan on December 8th. If you are interested in attending, you can register using this link: https://cvent.me/m5z25r?RefId=RD

On this episode we have Ryan Fenn, CEO of CHIIRP on the show, recorded from the Women in HVACR event! Eric and Ryan talk about communication automation, automating review requests, while not taking away the human element in your business.

Ryan and his brother started a business 12 years ago, and Ryan even made a course on how to grow and build your business. Now, he's focused on growing your business through automation. Automating allows you as the business owner to be able to do more, while automation takes care of the rest. 

Check our our affiliate link for CHIIRP here!

ERIC GOES LIVE FROM WOMEN IN HVACR! On this episode, we are joined by Carrie Fraser from Nexstar Network.

Nexstar is a member-owned organization serving the trades. Carrie says that Nexstar's goal is to coach and train the world's best tradespeople to become the best business people. 

Carrie has been with Nexstar for a little over 5 years. Her advice to those in the trades is to be able to adapt, and be consistent. 

Carrie puts emphasis on the importance of pairing up with a best practices group and putting time and effort into the people on your team.

On this episode, we are welcoming back Lawrence Castillo from Brody Pennell. Brody Pennell is the longest standing Carrier dealer in Los Angeles. They've been in business since 1945. 

Brody Pennell recently won Best HVAC Company in LA by the readers of the LA times!

Lawrence and Eric talk about the importance of customer service, thought on private equity, memberships and opportunities in quarter four. Lawrence puts on emphasis on memberships by linking reviews directly to an increase in memberships, and stating that "memberships are not dead."

Lawrence puts emphasis on customer service saying "it takes years to gain a customer and only seconds to lose them."

This is Lawrence's third time being on The Smart HVAC Marketing Podcast. We are so glad to have him back to share his insight and experience in this industry.

CORRECTION: Lawrence's email is lawrence@brodypennell.com

BONUS EPISODE ALERT!

We wanted to provide an additional episode for everyone this week. Mainly because the information shared from the team at A&T Mechanical in regards to their TikTok success was too good to not share immediately. 

During this action-packed episode of the Smart HVAC Marketing podcast, we talk about how HVAC & plumbing companies can utilize TikTok as part of their social media marketing strategy, and different ways to get creative with your approach to maximize reach. 

The Smart HVAC Marketing podcast was created by Rival Digital to help residential HVAC contractors and is now streaming on all major platforms. Follow along for ways to improve your marketing and grow your business as we continue interviewing more industry experts.

On this episode we are joined by Matthew Weppner of Schedule Engine.

Matthew is the Enablement Manager at Schedule Engine, before that Matthew was a CSR at Uber. (before Uber was what we know it as today!)

Matthew and Eric discuss how to handle high call volume and how to prioritize calls using Service Titan technologies and software. 

Matthew touches upon the importance of using data insights for upsells, taking higher paid jobs, and using softwares to track inventory for your techs.

Matthew says that going forward the industry needs to note that convenience is king, always.

On this episode, we are joined by Bohannan McKenzie of Full-Speed Plumbing.

Bo is the CVO (Chief Visionary Officer) which comes with the responsibilities of helping define Full-Speed's vision for the future.

Bo's advice on reaching homeowners is to be specific, focus on today and right now, and the value of the isolation of information. He also mentions that you should know how served your population is, and if you want change, you need to be the change in the market.

Bo also describes the challenges in the home services industry like brand recognition and entering a new market. 

On this episode we are joined by none other than Tommy Mello of A1 Garage Doors. This is an episode that you should not miss!

Tommy and Eric talk about team culture, communication, recruiting and giving your employees opportunities for growth.

Tommy explains that people cut marketing first, not bad performers and if you're not willing to have tough conversations that that's a fast track to failure.

In discussing systems, Tommy explains that a system fails for 3 reasons:

1. No system

2. Wrong system

3. System isn't being followed

Some of Tommy's advice from this episode is "Don't pay people to practice in front of a customer."

On this episode we are joined by Everett Lippel of Supply Smart. This is his 13th year in the industry. He has a lot of hats including 1 on 1 coaching, team coaching, process training and working with a CRM system to help put this processes into practice. 

Everett touches upon living in a digital world and how it affects the way business is ran. Everett also talks about a system he helped come up with called CLEAR, and how it can be used in your business.

On this episode, we are welcoming back Pete Danielson from Service Nation.

Pete and Eric talk about the upcoming Service World Expo  in Tampa, FL, (October 18-21) and what to expect and who will be there. Pete lets us know that there will be 40+ break out sessions, and keynotes! The first keynote speaker of the event? None other than Tim Tebow! 

Eric asks Pete what you should do to get the most our of this event and Pete says "prioritize what you want to work on and have some goals in mind."

(if you are attending the event don't forget to visit the Rival Digital booth!)

On this episode of The Trademarke Podcast, hosts Sarah Ghirardo and Eric Thomas sit down with Ryan Redding for a candid, practical playbook on scaling a home service company the right way. Fresh off a year that included his team joining forces with KickCharge Creative, Ryan shares what he is doing now, why frameworks like EOS help owners win back their time, and how to spot the three problems that stall growth: time traps, profit slippage, and revenue plateaus.

You will learn how to identify personal, department, and company bottlenecks, why “manage up or manage out” creates healthier teams, and how to let go so your best people can lead. Ryan also talks through real owner tactics for protecting family time, setting outcomes instead of job titles, and building a business that is sellable and resilient.

On this episode, we are joined by Heather Ripley of Ripley PR

Heather has been in the business since 2008 and is PR passionate! Heather defines what PR is and what PR is NOT. She also talks about the differences between advertising, branding and PR saying:

-Advertising: you control

-Branding: Happens overtime

-PR: When a 3rd party talks about you

Heather also discusses the different types of earned media, and proactive verses active PR and saying that PR is often overlooked and is of more value than you may think.

On this episode we are joined by Stephen Dale of Power Selling Pros

Stephen is the director of training and absolutely loves this industry. Throughout the episode Stephen emphasizes the importance of your team, saying "your greatest asset in your company is your people."

What happens when you invest in your team and their training? Stephen Dale explains.

We've got quite a different type of episode today! Alyssa from Rogers Heating and Cooling has recently started a podcast for their company! She wanted to practice her interview skills with Eric, so today you will be hearing Eric's story of how he got to where he is today, how Rival came to be, where he hopes Rival will go, his long-term goals for the company and his hobbies outside of the office.

On this episode we are joined by our marketing intern, Ariela Ruiz. She is a senior at Texas Christian University (TCU) and has been with us since around June.

Ariela and Eric talk about the proper way to respond to negative reviews and the steps that come along with that. Ariela puts an emphasis on making customers feel heard and to personalize the response back to them.

Her step to respond to negative reviews are as follows:

1. Acknowledge in a timely manner, show urgency.

2. Contact the customer privately.

3. Provide a solution. Lead with the positive.

4. Follow up with the customer.

On this episode, we are joined by Ray Clark of Schedule Engine.

Ray has been with Schedule Engine since 2016 and is a good friend of Eric's. They discuss the perfect customer journey, and how online booking is a necessity, not just a cool gadget.

Ray talks about how passionate Schedule Engine is about helping contractors never miss a job and how their goal is to deliver the most powerful online booking and live chat for you and your customers.

Download EBook here 

On this episode we are joined by Jennifer Shooshanian from BDR.

Jennifer Shooshanian is one of the most knowledgeable and accomplished service performance experts in America.   She entered the HVAC industry in 1991 working for Jacob’s Heating and Air for 13 years. Jennifer talks with Eric about the importance of adding extra value to service calls, being observant and what you can do to make your services calls more profitable.

On this episode we are joined by Adam Jaggers from XOI Technologies. "XOI Technologies is known for empowering techs to safely capture and access critical job site information, launch remote support, and provide your customers photos and videos of recommended and completed work."

Adam explains the difference AND importance of showing rather than telling. Adam also explains that the tools that XOI can provide help run the service, not the business, and how investing in your techs will always be your biggest ROI.

On this episode we are joined by Josh Carter from Koalifi.  Josh is a marketer by trade and a friend to Eric. Eric and Josh discuss how financing can make repairs and replacements tangible for customers. They discuss utilizing phrases like "as low as" to make replacing or fixing a system accessible for anyone who needs the services. Eric emphasizes how people "buy with emotion" and "justify with logic", and how to make that appeal to your customers. Both Eric and Josh also talk about the importance of having a financing option available on your website. 

On this episode we are thrilled to be joined again by Al Levi.

Al talks to Eric about how to to get people in the door, especially in these hot summer months and how to get them to stay, by utilizing the right training techniques and learning what makes a training center great.

On this episode we are joined by Victor Rancour. He is the owner of Absolute Air Flow and Service Rocket Group. Victor is a well-known name in the industry. He excels at sales processes and being bold in everything that he does. He, along with some others, developed the Service Hero Academy App that has helps a variety of people in the industry. Victor shares tips on hiring a marketing agency, for example; asking for references and making sure you, the business owner are the owner of your own website.

Service Rocket Network Vegas Event

Step into The TradeMarke with Sarah Ghirardo and Eric Thomas as they sit down with Brigham Dickinson of Power Selling Pros to explore the evolution of CSRs, technician training, and the impact of AI on trades marketing. Brigham shares real-world stories on improving call conversion, reducing callbacks, and turning CSRs into inside sales experts while emphasizing empathy, technical knowledge, and accountability.

Learn why blending soft skills with technical understanding and leveraging technology — from call recording to AI — can increase sales, improve customer experience, and strengthen your business operations.

Welcome to season 3 of the Smart HVAC Marketing podcast! We are kicking off the new season in style with Ryan Chute from the Wizard of Ads! 

In this episode, we chat about how to properly create a marketing strategy, which tactics to deploy in order to achieve success in your marketing, and how online & offline advertising can work together. 

Also, Ryan shares his top tips on how to create an effective radio jingle (so you don't waste your money), and different ways you can track your offline advertising efforts. 

On this episode, Eric thanks all of our season 2 podcast guests, gives a great analogy for business, and teases season 3 which starts next Wednesday, July 6th!

(You won't want to miss it!)

On this episode we are joined by Kirsten Weeks from Go Time Success Group. Kirsten grew up in the industry and swore she would never return, but alas she is back! We think her story is super cool--Kirsten is also a certified Service Titan Coach. She discusses with Eric call by call management and how Service Titan can provide the tools necessary to manage and improve your business.

Welcome back for another segment of Marketing Real Talk. This week's episode talks about how to make your money stretch and go further on ad spend.

Eric talks about the importance of tracking numbers, (PPC, LSA, FB ads) and how you cannot improve things that are not being measured. 

Eric talks about the importance of having Google Analytics set up on your website. Some tips he gives about improving numbers and allowing your ad spend to reach further are:

1. Making sure your CSR's are properly trained to convert calls into jobs.

2. Tracking numbers for your phones.

3. Adding Google Analytics and pixels on your website.

Other tips Eric shares:

Start broad, obsess over the first 30 clicks and then narrow, incorporating negative keywords.

On this episode we are joined by TJ Hartnett of Service Rocket

TJ has been in the trade since '94. (sorry to date you!) He believes that he was put on this planet to serve others. TJ and Eric discuss the importance of having a commitment to training. TJ touches upon some steps to implement training. Some of them include:

1. Manufacturer and distributer relationships--both have training resources.

2. Internal training at company level.

3. Technical skills 

TJ also puts emphasis on the importance of the best way to learn something and to gain a new skill is to teach it to others.

On this episode, we are again joined by Matt Tyner from MAX Service Group. Eric and Matt touch upon the importance of progress, not perfection and how to best serve the industry.  Matt also discusses how to manage marketing whether it be in house or a hired agency.

We are so happy to bring him back on the show! He was one of our first guests.

On this installment of Marketing Real Talk, Eric breaks down recruitment. Eric says that recruitment is essentially people marketing. He discusses what you should have on your website to spark interest in future employees.

Some of his tips include an about page, sharing your team on both social media and your site and to always be recruiting no matter what season it is.

On this episode, we bring you another edition of Marketing Real Talk. Eric discusses the right and wrong questions to ask when you're hiring a marketing agency.

Some of the questions include:

1. Where is the website being hosted?

2. What CMS is this being built on?

3. Will I own the content/website?

4. Who is writing copy?

5. How are edits going to he handled and what is your management fee?

Here at Rival Digital, we want to make sure you're prepared!

Live Oak bank was founded in 2008 in Wilmington, NC. They focused on supplying loans to Veterinary practices when they first got their start. 

Jordan touches upon how acquisitions and working capital can help grow your business. The founder of Live Oak wanted to provide financing to the HVAC and plumbing space because he understood the need for HVAC and plumbing businesses and their vital role they play in keeping communities comfortable.

What makes Live Oak different is the fact that they give loans based on cash flow of the business and not the collateral.

Live Oak is dedicated to the doers. They say "small business is the backbone of our country. It drives jobs, creates prosperity and boosts local economies. We’re proud to contribute to that growth by investing in America’s small business owners. When you bank with Live Oak, you can be proud too."

On this episode we are joined by Tom Peregrino of Service Nation.

In this episode Eric and Tom touch upon the importance of being a better leader and how leadership directly influences the organization. Tom puts emphasis on leadership by saying, "The better the leader, the better the organization. In order to build a thriving HVAC business, you must work from the ground up. A business can only be as good as the leader allows it to be. Tom and Eric also discuss the importance and influence that culture has on whether or not your contractors stay for decades or leave after a few months. 

About Service Nation:

Service Nation Inc was founded in July 2002 as The Service Roundtable. We started with 200 members which, for year one, we considered quite the achievement. It was and remains a revolutionary organization founded by a collaboration of leading contractors to share information and help other contractors improve their sales, marketing, operations and profitability.

On this episode of The TradeMarke Podcast, hosts Sarah Ghirardo and Eric Thomas sit down with James Hatfield, Chief Revenue Officer at LiveSwitch, to explore how live video technology is reshaping the trades.

James shares his journey from climbing ladders in the painting and power washing world to leading a global tech company powering live video for the NFL, the Super Bowl, and now thousands of home service businesses. He explains why speed to lead is the ultimate competitive advantage, how contractors can use live video to boost trust and conversions, and why the future of customer experience will come down to speed, transparency, and authentic connection.

Whether you’re running an HVAC shop, managing a plumbing crew, or looking to stay ahead in the trades, this conversation delivers a powerful look at the tools and strategies that separate winners from the rest.

On this episode, we are joined by John Michel from BDR

BDR is a company focused on coaching and training exclusively in the HVAC space.

BDR’s business coaching services help you increase your business profitability, cash flow, and personal wealth. They help business owners build a strong, self-sustaining company where employees are well paid and morale is high.

We discuss the importance of making sure you have a marketing strategy centered around your maintenance program, giving your staff the tools to sell, and being upfront about costs on your website. 

Kiss shoulder season goodbye!

On this episode, we are joined by Alyssa Lavik in our part 2 segment with our friends at Schedule Engine

Alyssa and I discuss some strategies for training effective CSR's, how to prioritize jobs without losing leads, and how if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

We also discuss Will Smith and King Richard. It all makes sense and is relevant, I promise!

On this episode, we bring back Marketing Real Talk for its 3rd segment! We talk about the 4 things to do to get your phone ringing as the shoulder season wraps up. (spring is on the horizon, we promise!)

Eric's expert advice include:

1. Using a 3 month tiered system

2. Replacement strategy

3. Duct cleaning

4. Home inspection offer

Eric breaks out his singing skills to let y'all know where Rival is headed in the next couple weeks--stay tuned.

On our ONE-HUNDREDTH episode, we are bringing back another installment of 'Marketing Real Talk.' 

Eric talks Girl Scout Cookies, (what is your favorite cookie?) the importance of the right message and the importance of creating a want or a need.

The basics of marketing and the key to success is getting the right message to the right person, and the right offer at the right time.

Eric talks about the importance of creating a want or a need in the trade industry.

A special thank you to all of our loyal listeners as we celebrate out 100th episode of The Smart HVAC Marketing Podcast.

On this episode, we are joined by Eric! He's hopping on here solo today to kick-off a new segment which he is affectionately and appropriately calling "Marketing Real Talk." 

Eric goes over the 4 steps on how to create a successful marketing campaign. The steps include:

• Knowing your audience
• Knowing your objectives
• Having a strategy
• Tactics

Join our private Facebook group today to join the discussion and stay up to date with the podcast!

On this episode we are joined by Matt Kratos, our newest addition to the Rival Digital team. He's a website creating, coding master! Welcome to the team, Matt!

On this episode, we are joined by Sarah Ghirardo from Service Titan.

We chat about how to utilize the slower months and to always keep improving and adapting; starting with your existing, loyal customers. 

Sarah touches on the importance of having consistency in your messaging, incorporating memberships, and cleaning up your marketing plan if it is not working for your business. 

On this episode, we are joined by Crystal Williams of Lemon Seed Marketing.

We discuss the importance of investing in a quality mascot, how to focus on engagement, rather than overselling and seeing marketing as an investment. 

Eric also brings back the "Hold my beer" segment!

In this episode of the Smart HVAC Marketing podcast, Eric is joined by Danielle Putnam from The New Flat Rate.

Founded to help contractors and entrepreneurs find the lost opportunity in their company by giving their customers choices...and when given choices, customers buy more.

The New Flat Rate will double, triple and quadruple service repair sales on day one.

The genius of The New Flat Rate = technicians no longer have to be salesmen. They no longer have to stress out about meeting their sales goals and numbers. Their new focus is to provide the best possible service for their customers by allowing the customer to CHOOSE what level of service they’d like.

On this episode we are joined by Lawrence Castillo from Brody Pennell.

This is Lawrence's second appearance on The Smart HVAC Marketing Podcast. We had him as guest in 2021, his episode was the most listened to episode--so we knew we had to have him back!

Lawrence is the President of Brody Pennell Heating & Air Conditioning, the legendary 77 year old HVAC leader in Southern California.

In this episode, Lawrence reviews the checklist for strategically planning for a successful 2022 if you are a residential contractor. Plenty of takeaways for contractors of all sizes in my discussion with one of the most respected operators in the industry.

Being 2 months into 2022, we want to give you the tools you need to succeed this year. 

Lawrence emphasizes the important of writing this plan down on paper--this makes it official and gives it a better chance of being completed and followed.

We discuss the ongoing hiccup of COVID and that you should have COVID built into your business plan. 

Brody Pennell was voted best company in the LA area, so you know they're doing something right!

On this episode of The TradeMarke Podcast, hosts Sarah Ghirardo and Eric Thomas sit down with Kevin Thornton, VP & GM of Dealer Business Services at JB Warranties, to uncover how warranties are transforming the trades.

Kevin shares how JB Warranties helps contractors increase revenue, build stronger customer relationships, and provide homeowners with true peace of mind. From HVAC and plumbing systems to electrical and water filtration, warranties aren’t just about protection—they’re about creating long-term trust and recurring revenue opportunities.

You’ll also hear how JB Warranties’ JB360 integration with ServiceTitan streamlines warranty sales, claims, and renewals, giving contractors the tools to reduce admin time and focus on growth. Plus, Kevin highlights the importance of educating homeowners, offering tiered warranty options, and using technology to improve customer lifetime value.

Whether you’re an HVAC, plumbing, or electrical contractor, this episode will give you actionable strategies to stand out from competitors, retain more customers, and unlock new revenue streams.

Listen now to learn how warranties can become one of your most powerful business growth tools.

On this episode, we are joined Amanda Woodley from the sales division of Schedule Engine.

Eric and Amanda discuss strategy when it comes to those slower months. 

Some of Amanda's tips for shoulder season are:

• being available after hours
• connecting with peers/attending conferences 
• expand marketing and online listings 
• evaluating different parts of your business

The key is making sure your business is ready for busy season. 

Amanda discusses the possibility of evaluating any technology that could either generate new business or make your business run more efficiently. 

Make sure your business is able to run effectively and efficiently when the shoulder season ends. 

Schedule Engine streamlines your booking process and allows you to capture every opportunity while providing a consistent customer experience that’s true to your brand. With Schedule Engine’s booking solutions, home service professionals can provide a convenient and reliable customer experience to book more jobs while optimizing efficiency for dispatchers and technicians. From automated online scheduling to 24/7 live expert support with industry-trained professionals, Schedule Engine ensures a personalized experience for both the contractor and customer. Designed to complement your existing systems, Schedule Engine can be started quickly without any internal training or process changes. For more information, visit http://www.scheduleengine.com.

On this episode we are joined by Michelle LaFrance, creator of the Ductless Directory.

Michelle started her career in Portland Oregon, and eventually decided to start her own agency. We discuss a lot of topics in this episode, so get your notepad out!

She talks about the importance of relevancy and how to get your business recognized. 

We talk about how to both please and appease Google and the importance of being an expert in video.

The first episode recorded in 2022! On this episode we are joined by Al Levi from The 7-Power Contractor.

This native New-Yorker shares with Eric the 7 steps needed to grow your business and obtain success.

The 7-steps include:

Planning

Staffing

Marketing

Operating

Sales

Sales Coaching

& Financial

Listen to find out which step is the most important and how to put them all into place to lead your business towards the upmost success in the brand new year!