Explore every episode of the podcast The Thing About Golf Podcast

For most, golf is a passion, but for many others, it’s also a business. The golf industry is both large and diverse, ranging from tour professionals and media companies to travel and retail equipment sales. 

So how does the game stack up in the world of sports business and what are the similarities — and differences — to other sports? Sports business expert and journalist Richard Gillis has a duel interest in golf, both as a lifelong player and having covered the game professionally. 

His takes on LIV, the media environment, the long-term viability of TV as a financial support and much more are intelligent and thought provoking — whether you are in the golf business or not.

Rarely has a player sported the green jacket with such style than our latest guest and one of golf’s greatest assets, Trevor Immelman.

However, there is more to the 2008 Masters champion than a pretty golf swing. 

The 2022 International Presidents Cup captain sits down with John Huggan to talk about his beginnings in the game, his thoughts on the Presidents Cup, the LIV/PGA Tour negotiations, where TV commentators get it wrong and much more. 

Immelman is one of the game’s best ambassadors and after listening to this chat, you’ll gain an insight into why.

He is known as one of the nicest people in golf, but he might also be one of the most thoughtful. Ian Baker-Finch, 1991 Open champion, sat down with John Huggan at Augusta National this week to talk the Masters, his career in both golf and television and his thoughts on the modern state of the game. 

There's often an adversarial nature to the relationship between golfers and administrators which is why it's rare to find a successful player who makes the transition to the other side.
One shining example is Women's Professional Golf Association Tour (WPGA) CEO Karen Lunn – a 10-time Ladies European Tour winner, who now has the responsibility of steering the women's professional game in Australia into a very uncertain future. 
Never one to shy away from controversy, Lunn talks about modern equipment and its impact on the game to the lack of 'mongrel' in some of the game's younger players. 
After a lifetime in golf Lunn has collected plenty of nuggets of wisdom and she shares many of them during the course of this interview with host Rod Morri.

It's almost impossible to find anybody in Australian golf with a bad word to say about veteran touring professional Greg Chalmers. And, after this lengthy and expansive chat with host Rod Morri, we hope you'll understand why.

He might not have the profile or resume of Ernie Els or Gary Player but Dale Hayes' contribution to golf in South Africa is not diminished because of that. Despite an extraordinarily promising playing career being cut short by the international response to Apartheid, Hayes has continued to be an integral figure in golf in his homeland. His voice will be instantly recognisable to many thanks to his TV commentary work but his story will be a revelation to a new generation of golfers.

It's a long way from Warrnambool to the dizzying heights of the PGA Tour and for Marc Leishman, the son of a bricklayer, the two worlds could barely be further apart. Perhaps it is this grounded upbringing that has seen Leishman maintain an everyman attitude to life and the game, right down to his obsession with mowing his own lawn. The five-time PGA Tour winner is an intriguing character, one who always looks calm on the outside regardless of the circumstances. But don't be fooled because as he reveals in this interview, there lurks beneath a fiery competitor. From wife Audrey's near death experience from Sepsis in 2015 to his close call at that year's Open Championship at the home of golf, Leishman maintains the perspective of a man who knows three putting is far from the top of the list of things that are important. In a wide-ranging chat Leishman reveals plenty about his journey so far as well as his plans for the future including why Leishman Lager is a big part of his retirement plans.

He's an Australian Open champion, a World Cup winner and a dominant force on the European Senior Tour but to talk to him you wouldn't know any of that because at his core, Peter Fowler is simply a good bloke who happens to be good at golf. Talent, as Mathew Goggin once famously said, is merely the entry fee in professional golf and after that it comes down to hard work, self-belief, dogged determination and - yes - a little bit of luck. In Fowler's case we can add one more characteristic to the list... it's a less common one in professional golf or indeed any elite pursuit but the enduring impression one gets from him is humility. As always on the Thing About Golf our chat is a lengthy and wide ranging one but there is much wisdom to be gained by listening to the man affectionately known as 'Chook'.

Karrie Webb is a self-confessed golf nerd but unlike the rest of us she also happens to be one of the best golfers in the history of the game. Yet, seven majors and a Hall of Fame career are in some way just the beginning for Karrie because as remarkable as it is to consider, in her own mind, the most important part of her golfing life is really just getting started. You'll hear how in this exclusive chat with host Rod Morri.

Too much Trackman, not enough working the ball, Tiger to maybe get to 18 majors before the end of the year... Scott Hend has opinions and he's not afraid to share them! In a wide ranging chat, the popular Australian talks everything from golf in Asia versus America to continuing to travel the world to tee up at the age of 46. He's refreshing, he's honest, he's entertaining and he happens to still be one hell of a player so settle in and enjoy some time with Scott Hend.

Bryden Macpherson will be a name familiar to a few of you though it would be fair to say that even in golf circles he's far from a high profile figure. There's no doubting his talent. He's a very good player – clearly (you don't win the British Amateur and three times as a professional through luck) but he's more than that. He is also an intriguing thinker cut from a very different cloth to most golf pros of his generation. Here he talks with host Rod Morri about a wide range of golf and non-golf related topics and above all, The Thing About Golf.

In his playing days, Tony Johnstone was as much renowned for his on course temper as he was his brilliant short game. Today, he's one of the most recognised voices in the commentary box. In this conversation with host Rod Morri, the gregarious Johnstone talks with some embarrassment about those antics, his second career in television and the multiple sclerosis diagnosis in 2003 that saw him chosen for a drug trial which has seen him symptom free for nearly two decades. Johnstone is at his story telling best here as he reveals why he loves golf, bird-watching and why he reckons Greg Norman is a pussy.

The seeds of Mike Clayton’s love affair with golf began as a six-year-old tagging along beside his father during a round at Victoria’s Point Lonsdale course. Clayton remains passionate about the game, which has been his life for the past five decades. Almost everybody listening to this podcast will be aware of Clayton in some capacity be it as a player, commentator, long-time columnist for Golf Australia magazine, part-time caddie and course architect. It is our hope that no matter how well you think you know him, you’ll come away from thi conversation with Rod Morri feeling like you know him a little better.

Two-time Masters winner Ben Crenshaw is as much a part of Augusta folklore as any past champion. Now one of the game’s leading course designers, Crenshaw sat down with John Huggan to talk all things Masters — and everything else to do with golf.

Even casual golf fans will be familiar with the name Christina Kim, the former Solheim Cup player and three-time LPGA Tour winner. She's one of the game's most popular players and you'll understand why by the end of this interview. But equally interesting is her less well-known but equally well-liked boyfriend and occasional caddie, Duncan French. The Kiwi-born French is a respected bagman in his own right, having helped guide Michelle Wie to her only major victory at the 2014 US Women's Open. They might be an odd couple, but here they talk about their shared passion for the game.

Tom Doak is one of golf's intriguing characters. In the early days of his career, he was best known for his Confidential Guide, a book which featured some blunt and controversial takes on golf courses around the world. For more than 20 years now he has created commercially successful and critically acclaimed courses in almost every corner of the globe, which has seen him become a celebrity in the sub-culture that is golf course architecture. Here, host Rod Morri asks him, "What is the thing about golf?"

To many in the golf world England's Meghan MacLaren is recognisable only as 'that equal pay girl.' But is there more to the 25-year-old two-time NSW Open winner than pointing out the inequalities between professional golfers of opposite gender? The answer is a resounding 'Yes'. MacLaren is intelligent and articulate, thoughtful and engaging and, most importantly, brutally honest. About everything. From the state of her own game to the state of the broader industry, Maclaren has plenty to offer in this wide ranging and fascinating discussion.

John Paramor has spent the best part of 45 years adjudicating on animal scrapes and penalty drops. But the European Tour's chief referee is more than just the best known rules official in the world, he's a passionate lover of the game and an admirer of its very best exponents. He's had a front row seat at some of the great, and not so great, moments in modern golf - from Seve to Tiger and Rory, backstopping and the Patrick Reed affair, nothing is off limits in this conversation.

In the sub-culture that is golf course architecture, Bob Harrison needs no introduction. The long-time design partner of Greg Norman, Harrison was predominantly responsible for most of that company’s work for most of its life. But that doesn’t begin to tell the story of Bob Harrison. From a near partnership with Seve Ballesteros to eventually turning down the design of both courses at Barnbougle Dunes and on to building the widely acclaimed Ardfin course on the Scottish island of Jura, Harrison has a wonderfully entertaining story to tell.

In the brutal, dog eat dog world of modern professional golf David McKenzie has managed to achieve something very few do... to wit, make a living out of playing the game around the world for more than three decades. Needless to say, he's learned a few things along the way and in this revealing chat, David offers some insights into the PGA Champions Tour as well as some of the highs and lows of being a long-time touring professional.

Liz Smylie is an unusual interview choice for a golf podcast. Of course, she is best known for her exploits on the tennis court - winning four Grand Slam doubles and mixed doubles titles in the 1980s, as well as climbing to No.20 in the world ranking. What makes her story interesting is she doesn't play golf at all, but is mum to one of Australia's most promising golfing talents, Elvis Smylie. This interview could have gone horribly wrong, but as you will hear, it didn't.

Golf has more than its fair share of cheerleaders but Golf Australia columnist John Huggan is not one of them. And the game is better for it. Here, we get an insight into his passion for the game – born on the links of Scotland – which has taken him from outside the ropes as a young autograph-hunting fan, to a fine amateur player, award-winning writer and occasional caddie.

For more than 40 years Peter Senior has been plying his trade on the fairways of the world. His relentless competitive spirit and ability to get the job done when the pressure is a thing of folklore. But perhaps, most importantly, he's renown for being one of the nicest people in the professional game.

The 2019 Presidents Cup will shine a spotlight on Dr Alister MacKenzie's Royal Melbourne masterpiece. Course Superintendent Richard Forsyth is charged with the day-to-day responsibility of maintaining this revered layout and here, he talks about all things golf, courses, the Cup and his 'office'.

Three-time DP World Tour winner turned Sky Sports commentator Nick Dougherty is a firm believer in golf as metaphor for life and the 41-year-old has had his share of ups and downs in both. 

John Huggan recently caught up with the Englishman to talk about a lifetime in the game, highlighted by playing with Tiger Woods at his peak in the third round of the 2007 U.S Open. 

Dougherty also talks openly about the impact of losing his mother suddenly in 2008 and his struggles in the aftermath before finding a second career as a TV broadcaster.

A two-time Australian Open Champion with a terrific sense of humour and a knack for telling great stories. So it's no wonder Peter Lonard is one of Australia's favourite players, equally popular among his playing peers and fans alike.

Tom Moore is one of only 12 current life members of the PGA of Australia, and he has witnessed just about every imaginable significant change the game has seen. It is this unique perspective that we chat about with Tom on a journey that eventually leads us to discover that for him, the thing about golf is its history and the less than ideal way we treat it.

Any golfer with an interest in golf course architecture is no doubt familiar with the name Paul Daley. For the past two decades, Paul has been publishing books about the sub-culture that is golf course design and it's an endeavour that - as you'll hear - truly is a labour of love. But there's more to this conversation than course architecture.

Richard Sattler likes to call himself a farmer and that is a true and accurate description. But Sattler – the owner of the Barnbougle Dunes complex on Tasmania's north-east coast – is much more than that. Despite not being obsessed with the game or indeed the business, Sattler stands as one of golf's most important people of the past two decades.

Bob and Kathie Shearer are Australian golf royalty. Bob, of course, was one of Australia's premiere international players during the 1970's and 80's. Kathie, on the other hand, didn't find golf it found her and for nearly three decades she has had to deal with the biggest names in the game, while managing tournament media centres around the world. Theirs is a love story... with a lot of golf thrown into the mix.

This is the remarkable story of one of the finest amateur players of recent times that you've likely never heard of, a player whose career trajectory goes against almost all accepted wisdom. She's a plus handicap golfer, prolific tournament winner, mother of four and grandmum to six. This is the Sue Wooster story.

Welcome to this special preview edition of a brand new podcast launching this week, Golf Australia Magazine's The Thing About Golf. If you're a keen player or even a self-confessed golf nut you'll know there is plenty to love about this game. In this monthly series, we will chat with golfers both famous and not to find out just what it is that draws them to this great game.

From the humble courses of southern Sydney to the top levels of the game, Wayne ‘Radar’ Riley has been in and around the game of golf for more than 50 years.
Having started at the age of seven, he became a six-time winner at the professional level including one of the most iconic Australian Open victories of the modern era.
Riley now spends his time analysing and critiquing the world’s best on television as an on-course reporter for Sky Sports in the UK. 
In this wide-ranging chat with John Huggan, Riley looks back on a career and life that has been full of adventure and always plenty of golf.

Anyone who spends a lifetime in golf will have gathered plenty of knowledge and insight which simply can’t be learned from a book. 

Yarrawonga Mulwala Golf Club Resort’s Head Professional, Evan Droop, is one such golfer. Evan’s father was the head professional at Yarrawonga before him and he has two sons, both PGA of Australia members, who may well take the job after him. 

In between, he managed five years on the Australasian Tour including a life and career-changing near miss at the 1992 Malaysian Masters. Droop recalls all that and more in this insightful and wide-ranging conversation with host Rod Morri.

From child prodigy to multiple European Tour winner, Ronan Rafferty has seen just about everything in golf. 

Popular wherever he went, Rafferty has a particular fondness for Australia — where he won five times between 1987 and 1992 — and credits his years spent Down Under as a crucial element in his international success. 

In this delightful chat with John Huggan, Rafferty reflects on his amateur career, what it was like on the European Tour in the halcyon days and how the game has changed over his lifetime.

Not every great amateur turns professional but that doesn’t mean they can’t make a living out of the game. 
Vinny Giles is one of the game’s great amateurs having won the U.S and British Amateur titles as well as the U.S Senior Amateur. He also represented the United States four times at the Walker Cup, winning three times. 
What is less well known is his long-time business role as a player manager, having at various stages guided the careers of Tom Kite, Davis Love III, Lanny Wadkins, Beth Daniel and Meg Mallon.
In this fascinating interview with John Huggan, Giles talks about how the game has changed over his many decades as both a player, businessman and devotee of the game.'

Some people have never known a life that didn't include golf and while they may not have a high profile those people are almost invariably among the most interesting and thoughtful in the game. Henry Cussell is just such a person. 
Head professional at Yarra Yarra Golf Club at the age of 20 and one of the earliest employees at The National Golf Club on Victoria's Mornington Peninsula, Cussell has likely forgotten more about the game than most people could ever hope to learn. 
In this wide ranging chat with Rod Morri, Cussell covers everything from 'foxing' balls as a youngster to the unique business he recently set up in Melbourne's Sandbelt with one of the great custodians of Australian golf history, Ross Baker.

Nine wins from 15 starts including all six Australian state titles and the national championship as well … If somebody told you a golfer had achieved all this in a single year you wouldn't believe them, but a golfer has and, ironically, that golfer struggles to believe it themselves. 

Nadene Gole has, not surprisingly, risen to the top of the Senior Women’s Amateur world ranking and the former touring professional says she still has improvements to make. 

But the journey hasn’t all been about golf for Nadene, who went almost two decades barely touching a club before accidentally falling back into the competitive game. 

It's a decision that’s paid dividends as a new and improved Nadene Gole, at the age of 55, is finally living up to her potential.

In many ways Matt Fitzpatrick is an unlikely major champion. His game isn’t as flashy as some but he works hard — and smart — to get everything out of his talent. 

In this revealing chat with The Thing About Golf host John Huggan, the Englishman looks back on his remarkable U.S Amateur/U.S Open double at Brookline, shares thoughts on the Ryder and Walker Cups, explains how he added 20 yards to his game off the tee and also why he switched to cross-handed chipping. 

The recent winner of the Dunhill Links at St Andrews, alongside his mum, has had quite the journey so far and the likeable 29-year-old looks far from done yet.

Our special guest this week discusses the new media landscape, building a media business when you had no intention of ever doing so and the challenges of monetising what started out as a hobby.

There is no shortage of underdog stories in Hollywood, but in real life - in the day to day news media - those narratives are harder to find. 

Media has changed, though, and with social media eliminating almost all barriers to entry, there are new players finding their voice - and an audience - in the space formerly occupied by legacy media. 

This is as true in golf as any other section of the media and Ryan French is one of the players in this space, although it is more by accident than by design.

Few in Australian golf have seen as much of the game as Andrew Langford-Jones.

From hanging with Tiger Woods to advocating for halving field sizes in Australia, he has been an integral — and active — part of the local professional scene for almost 35 years. 

As his career winds down ‘Langers’ sat down with Rod Morri to reflect on an extraordinary life in the game.

We like to complain about them but those who commentate golf on TV create the soundtrack of the game’s history. 

Gary Koch, the 2023 Payne Stewart Award recipient, will likely be best remembered for his iconic ’better than most’ line at the 2001 Players’ Championship. But there is much more to his story than that shot, or even his more than 30-year TV career. 

A standout amateur and six-time PGA Tour winner, Koch sits down for a chat with John Huggan to reflect on a life intertwined with the game and some of its greatest players.

Professional golf can be a roller coaster but even by those standards England’s Oliver Wilson has been on an epic journey. 
From leading amateur to successful professional to twice losing his game almost completely, the affable 43-year-old has seen and done just about everything golf has to offer. In this episode, Wilson sits down with John Huggan for a fascinating chat about life, golf and everything in between.

Search ‘Ryder Cup’ on the internet and it won’t take long before you find an image of Sam Torrance, arms raised to the sky after holing the winning putt at The Belfry at the 1985 matches. 

The Scot is the son of one of the game’s greatest coaches. Bob, but also a pivotal figure in both the Ryder Cup as we know it today and the European Tour. 

On the eve of the 44th matches between Europe and the United States, Torrance sits down for a fascinating conversation with The Thing About Golf host John Huggan, to talk all things Ryder Cup as he reflects on a career spanning more than 40 years.

Some names are synonymous with the Ryder Cup and on the European side Bernard Gallacher is one. 

Eight times a player and three times a Captain, Gallacher oversaw a time of great change in the matches from before European players became part of the team to the height of hostilities at Kiawah Island in 1991. 

His chat here with The Thing About Golf host John Huggan is as compelling as you would expect and the understated Gallacher reveals more than one story that has never been told before.

There are few more thoughtful or interesting voices in the game than Northern Ireland’s Graeme McDowell.

In this wide-ranging chat with The Thing About Golf host, John Huggan, the 2010 U.S Open champion talks Ryder Cup, Pebble Beach, the move to LIV and why he doesn't think he deserves a voice on the DP World Tour. 

Agree with him or not there is one thing guaranteed with McDowell: you’ll be entertained (and he’ll make you think).

It's been just over five years since Australian golf lost one of its most popular players in Jarrod Lyle.
On episode 100 of The Thing About Golf podcast, host Rod Morri catches up with Jarrod’s wife, Briony, to talk about how the couple met, the realities of living on the road, Jarrod’s legacy and what life is like as a non-golfer in a golfer’s world.

Her voice is familiar to golf fans the world over but there is much more to Dottie Pepper than what we see in the televised golf coverage. 

A world class player, major champion, and passionate advocate for all forms of the game, Pepper is an intelligent, articulate speaker and thinker about the game. 

These attributes are on full display in this broad ranging discussion with The Thing About Golf host John Huggan, which covers everything from the Solheim Cup to the possibilities of Saudi Arabia increasing its involvement in the women’s game.

One of golf’s greatest assets, especially when compared to other sports, is the range of people who can enjoy it.

Age, gender and even disability can all be accounted for in golf and in that last category one of the best in the world is recent inaugural G4D Open winner Brendan Lawlor.

The Irishman captured the title at Woburn in May and in this wide ranging chat with Rod Morri delves into the fascinating — and frankly underrated world — of disability golf.

It's not often you get an insider’s perspective on one of the game’s most important championships but that’s exactly what David Begg, former press officer for The Open Championship, gives us in this lengthy chat with John Huggan.

From Jack Nicklaus and Lee Trevino to Greg Norman and Nick Faldo, Begg had a front row seat for some of golf’s most memorable moments.