The Skeptical Shaman – Details, episodes & analysis
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The Skeptical Shaman
Rachel White
Frequency: 1 episode/9d. Total Eps: 83

Rachel White is modern-day shaman and the owner of TOTEM Readings, a decades-old spiritual practice. In the Skeptical Shaman, we engage fascinating folks-- from psychics to healers to skeptics and cynics-- in a dialogue designed to help the spiritually homeless navigate the landscape of woo. Are you curious about spiritually but worry about falling into a cult? Do you want to learn more without falling into a con? The Skeptical Shaman is the place for you.
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🇬🇧 Great Britain - spirituality
12/07/2025#84🇬🇧 Great Britain - spirituality
15/06/2025#95🇬🇧 Great Britain - spirituality
31/05/2025#86🇩🇪 Germany - spirituality
28/05/2025#85🇩🇪 Germany - spirituality
27/05/2025#51🇬🇧 Great Britain - spirituality
15/05/2025#62🇬🇧 Great Britain - spirituality
26/04/2025#89🇨🇦 Canada - spirituality
17/04/2025#49🇨🇦 Canada - spirituality
17/01/2025#55🇨🇦 Canada - spirituality
16/01/2025#54
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See all- https://www.instagram.com/apsychicsstory
467 shares
- https://www.instagram.com/casefaceb
210 shares
- https://www.instagram.com/georgelizos
173 shares
- https://www.skepticmetaphysician.com/
262 shares
- https://georgelizos.com/
261 shares
- https://www.totemreadings.com
121 shares
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See allScore global : 83%
Publication history
Monthly episode publishing history over the past years.
That Voodoo That You Do, with Sallie Ann Glassman
Season 6 · Episode 5
samedi 31 août 2024 • Duration 01:00:45
In this episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) chats with Voodoo practitioner, author and business owner Sallie Ann Glassman all about the realm of spirits, otherwise known in Voodoo as "loa".
Sallie has been practicing Vodoo in New Orleans since 1976 and is the owner of the Island of Salvation Botanica, a store and gallery specializing in Vodoun religious supplies, medicinal and magical herbs, and Haitian and local artworks. She received her spiritual training in Haiti in November, and is ordained as a Manbo Asogwe, or Priestess of Vodou-- and is one of the few white Americans to have been ordained via a traditional Haitian initiation.
Sallie is also the creator of one of Rachel's favorite all-time tarot decks: The Voodoo Tarot of New Orleans, which features the various Voodoo loa, their invocations, and their special gifts and blessings for human practitioners.
In this episode, Sallie and Rachel discuss just how powerful working with the world of spirit can be-- including Sallie's experience using ceremonial magic to quite literally stop crime in her New Orleans neighborhood! In fact, the crime-busting ceremony was so effective (resulting in arrests, etc.) that the New York Times and Smithsonian Magazine (among others) featured the story in their publications!
Sallie and Rachel also address the ontological fallacy of "toxic positivity" within the World of Woo, urging the spiritually homeless to keep an open mind and abandon their limiting, Puritanical beliefs to receive profound-- and tangible-- insights. Voodoo and the city of New Orleans serve as powerful reminders of the need to be rooted in the material world, integrating our spiritual gifts into the here and now for the benefit of all!
Links:
- The TOTEM Tarot Deck: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0578980126?ref=myi_title_dp
- TOTEM Flower Essence Deck: https://a.co/d/dikcLji
- TOTEM Flower Essences on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TotemReadingsATX
- TOTEM Readings Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
- TOTEM Readings Substack: https://totemrach.substack.com
- Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
- Sallie's Website: https://www.islandofsalvationbotanica.com
- Sallie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sallieann61/?hl=en
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
A Psychic Dr. Doolittle, with Abigail Kochunas
Season 6 · Episode 4
samedi 24 août 2024 • Duration 01:12:34
In this episode of The Skeptical Shaman, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) reconnects with "friend of the show" Abigail Kochunas, owner of of Sacred Healing Art AND an incredibly talented energy worker and animal communicator.
Abigail outlines her journey discovering her natural talents with animal communication and energy work, and how she's adding these services to her otherwise human-centered spiritual healing practice--not to mention to her charity work at a variety of animal sanctuaries and equine therapy facilities.
Rachel shares her recent experience with Abigail's remote animal communication and reiki work with her four backyard TOTEM Flower Essence garden chickens: Circe Lannister, Melisandre (The Red Witch), Arya Stark and Sansa Stark. Needless to say, Abigail-- the real life, psychic Dr. Doolittle-- totally tapped into issues and behaviors impossible for her to observe in real life from her home in California!
Spoiler alert: Circe really is the HBIC. I know. You're shocked;)
What's more: two of Rachel's chickens had major health turnarounds after their remote energy session with Abigail, laying their first eggs the next day and exuding health and happiness everyday since!
Animal communication is anything but silly. When done properly-- by practitioners like Abigail-- it can be a game-changing, value add Woo service that brings your whole family (pets included) closer together!
The TOTEM Tarot Deck (deck used in episode): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0578980126?ref=myi_title_dp
TOTEM Readings Website (Rachel's practice): https://www.totemreadings.com
TOTEM Readings Substack: https://totemrach.substack.com
Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
Abigail's Links and Website: https://linktr.ee/sacredhealingart
Abigails IG: https://www.instagram.com/sacredhealing_art/
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
The Tinfoil Hat 'Cast, with Roger Oney
Season 5 · Episode 5
samedi 29 juin 2024 • Duration 01:32:59
In this episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) chats with friend of the show Roger Oney about the truth and fiction of spiritual conspiracy theories.
First up? The strange and very real case of Michael Aquino: a Colonel in the United States Army that literally wrote the handbook on 4th and 5th generational information warfare, titled: "Mindwar". An open Satanist, he founded the Temple of Set, the Church of Satan, and many assert he also founded the Process Church-- the official church of serial killers Son of Sam and Charles Manson.
Despite being interviewed on national television many times by the likes of Oprah and Geraldo-- and showing off his ritual occult Nazi dagger in these televised appearances-- he continued to be promoted in the military, and was even knighted by the Queen of England, who also gave him land in Scotland.
That all seems weird, right?
Michael Aquino is just one of MANY intelligence and military officials involved in the dark side of the occult, experiments on mind control, and much, much more, and his case study can provide a map for navigating the more treacherous waters of the Woo.
In this conspiracy theory-inspired episode, Rachel and Roger sift through what's fact and what's fiction...and trust us when we tell you: the truth really is stranger than fiction. Satanic Panic? Sure, there was some of that. But actual demon worship? Yah, there's was (and is) a bunch of that, too. So why are people super quick to dismiss objective reality as crazy conspiracy theory?
Something about how the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
LINKS:
- Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
- TOTEM Readings Substack: https://totemrach.substack.com
- Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
Please support the Sponsors of The Skeptical Shaman Podcast:
- The TOTEM Flower Essence Deck: https://a.co/d/gw16LsG
- The TOTEM Tarot Deck: https://www.amazon.com/TOTEM-Tarot-Deck-Rachel-White/dp/0578980126
- The TOTEM Flower Essences: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TotemReadingsATX
Roger Oney links:
- Roger's substack: https://rogergoesrogue.substack.com
- Website: https://rogeroney.com
Topics discussed in this episode (with links and resources):
- Michael Aquino: https://youtu.be/qnM95xmLoMY?si=Ch2piIC90Bs7YXKy
- MK Ultra: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKUltra
- Chaos (Book About Charles Manson and MK Ultra): https://a.co/d/4Ug5Edv
- Poisoner in Chief (Book About MK Ultra and Bioweapons): https://a.co/d/2AbYeye
- Operation Paperclip (Book about MK Ultra and Nazi Scientists): https://a.co/d/33DjsJh
- The Process Church and Son(s) of Sam (Netflix Documentary): https://youtu.be/ICFZ1wS8Fuc?si=1sIC7H1ecXBMpkdv
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
Healing The Inner Child, with Damla Aktekin
Season 5 · Episode 4
samedi 22 juin 2024 • Duration 01:02:10
In this episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) chats with Damla Aktekin of A Drop of Om all about the inner child-- and how to energetically heal wounds from our early years and experiences.
Damla is the host of the Conversations with Healers podcast, a forum in which she explores topics centered around the art (and the science) of energy healing-- particularly when this healing is focused on the inner child.
In this episode, Rachel and Damla chat about Shamanic Soul Part Recollections, what the "wounded" inner child looks like, and how to actually, for realsies do the critical healing work required-- not just write it off as "healed" after going to a finger-painting party or weekend retreat in Bali.
As we tackled in a previous episode, "Spirituality is NOT an aesthetic", and Inner Child work can be dark, grueling, and emotionally (and physically) draining. But it's also the key to unlocking a lot of our otherwise unrealized (and stifled) potential.
LINKS:
Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
TOTEM Readings Substack: https://totemrach.substack.com
Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
Damla's Links: https://programs.adropofom.com/learn-more
Please support the Sponsors of The Skeptical Shaman Podcast:
The TOTEM Tarot Deck: https://www.amazon.com/TOTEM-Tarot-Deck-Rachel-White/dp/0578980126
TOTEM Flower Essences on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TotemReadingsATX
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
Lucid Dreaming + Lucid Living, with Norma and Nisha Burton
Season 5 · Episode 3
samedi 15 juin 2024 • Duration 57:17
In this episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) chats with the incredible mother/ daughter team of Norma and Nisha Burton, the creators of the Lucid Dreaming, Lucid Living Oracle Deck.
Norma and Nisha are legitimate, bonafide experts in the space of dreamtime, vision questing, shamanic journeying, and....drumroll please...LUCID DREAMING.
In this episode, we dig into:
- How to lucid dream more
- How to leverage insights from lucid dreaming for better living
- What the meaning of lucid dreams really are
- Why lucid dreaming is so important for spiritual development
And, of course, we pull a very weird and very relevant TOTEM Tarot Card to sum it all up!
LINKS:
Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
TOTEM Readings Substack: https://totemrach.substack.com
Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
The Lucid Living, Lucid Dreaming Deck on Amazon: https://a.co/d/0lVDajB
Lucid Living, Lucid Dreaming IG: https://www.instagram.com/lucid_dreaming_lucid_living/
Please support the Sponsors of The Skeptical Shaman Podcast:
The TOTEM Tarot Deck: https://www.amazon.com/TOTEM-Tarot-Deck-Rachel-White/dp/0578980126
TOTEM Flower Essences on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TotemReadingsATX
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
The Reality of Spiritual Awakening, with Casey SJ
Season 5 · Episode 2
samedi 8 juin 2024 • Duration 01:14:17
In this episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) chats with Casey St. John, fellow spiritual explorer!
Casey's story follows a very well-worn path: girl goes exploring, finds a reiki studio, signs up for a session, has her mind blown by the utterly unexplainable energetic and spiritual phenomenon, and then finds herself on a quest to learn the who, what, when, why and how of it all. Much like a merry troupe of fictional Hobbits before her, she encounters some challenges and obstacles: most notably that of the absolutely decoherent noise dominating the Woo landscape.
There is so much contradictory information, and the stakes feel so high, that the obvious next step is to find a mentor or guide to assist with your travels. But the quality of that guide matters. A lot. And an inexperienced, incompetent, delusional or even nefarious guide can cause a lot more harm than good.
So, what's to be done?
Well, Casey's working her way through it all, using discernment, common sense, intuition, best practices and lessons learned to cut a path of her own. She may not have all of the answers just yet, but she's clear on what she wants and how she's going to get it moving forward.
The upshot? Give yourself permission to change your mind. Give yourself permission to leave something that isn't working for you. Give yourself permission to change and evolve and, yes, make a few "mistakes" along the way!
LINKS:
- Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
- TOTEM Readings Substack: https://totemrach.substack.com
- Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
Please support the Sponsors of The Skeptical Shaman Podcast:
- The TOTEM Flower Essence Deck: https://a.co/d/gw16LsG
- The TOTEM Tarot Deck: https://www.amazon.com/TOTEM-Tarot-Deck-Rachel-White/dp/0578980126
- TOTEM Flower Essences on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TotemReadingsATX
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
All About Herbalism, with Megen Mundy
Season 5 · Episode 1
samedi 1 juin 2024 • Duration 51:12
In this episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) chats with Megen Mundy, the owner of Austin's oldest and most established herbalism store, the Herb Bar.
Rachel and Megen kick off this new season of the Skeptical Shaman podcast with a deep dive into the wide world of herbalism: how herbs support wellness, what issues they treat + support, and what herbs everyone should have as their "go-to's" in their pantry. This isn't hippy shit. This is human shit, and people like Megen and her team at the Herb Bar are working to bring back the old ways and reconnection shoppers and clients to the healing, plant magic all around us.
And our discussion of "le milky oats" is enough to make you blush!
Rachel and Megen also discuss flower essences: how they are the gentle, "gateway drug" for more intense herbalism protocols and tinctures-- not to mention witchy AF! The Herb Bar carries several TOTEM Flower Essences, and will be hosting our joint TOTEM Flower Essence Deck-themed event on the Summer Solstice.
LINKS
Secure your ticket (and swag bag) for the TOTEM Flower Essence Deck event at the Herb Bar on June 21st here: https://www.theherbbar.com/product/a-dark-garden-party/5235?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=72
- Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
- TOTEM Readings Substack: https://totemrach.substack.com
- Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
- The Herb Bar's Website: https://www.theherbbar.com
Please support the Sponsors of The Skeptical Shaman Podcast:
- The TOTEM Tarot Deck: https://www.amazon.com/TOTEM-Tarot-Deck-Rachel-White/dp/0578980126
- The TOTEM Flower Essence Deck: https://a.co/d/3PMGghq
TOTEM Flower Essences on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TotemReadingsATX
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
The Princess and The Pea-- SOLO
Season 4 · Episode 6
samedi 11 mai 2024 • Duration 40:31
In this special, solo episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) digs a bit further into The Business of Woo: the "industry" of psychics, shamans, energy workers, and yes-- even the dreaded, mythical "life coaches".
Next up on the Business of Woo myth-busting list? Self-care.
If you're a full-time practitioner of the Woo, odds are: you're sensitive. Like, really sensitive. That's kind of how this whole psychic thing works. In fact, we're so sensitive that it can read as a bit high maintenance, ala the fairy tale The Princess and the Pea. Now, multiply that inherent sensitivity by the variables of psychic and energetic client work against the backdrop of our overstimulating, relentless world and you've got a classic recipe for epic burnout.
So, what can we do? Turns out, we can do a lot-- but we have to be consistent about it, even when we're busy or tired or a bit lazy. Salt baths, sage, grounding food, and the rest of the usual suspects really do help, but what really helps is building systems into your Business of Woo model:
- Group like tasks: organize dates/ times for client sessions and separate dates/ times for administrative work so you're not switching so hard between "radio stations"-- energy flows where attention goes, and this approach helps you harness natural momentum and reduce the grind on your gears!
- Maintain boundaries: energy and spirit go where they're allowed to go, so maintaining consistent containers for your life and time are super important! There will always be tasks to do and clients wanting urgent help, so it's up to you to build in the barriers so everyday isn't an energetic negotiation.
- Give yourself a break: client-facing psychic work is a real workout for your mind, body and spirit-- so planning out breaks and scheduling self-care (like massages, salt baths and more) needs to be a standard, daily part of your business model. This isn't heading into a corporate office, sending a few emails and chatting in the lunchroom!
- Fill your spiritual cup: as practitioners, it's vital that we set time aside for our own spiritual practice-- and not just the work we do with clients! Not only will this get you out of a pity party or stress spiral, but it's a reminder of why you started doing this in the first place-- a crucial ingredient to a long, successful Woo-based business!
A lot of this stuff sounds obvious, but it's significantly harder to operationalize in the brutal day-to-day of also being a small business owner in a time of intense competition, a rapid rate of change/ churn, and economic pressures like inflation.
The irony? It also matters now more than ever.
So, give this episode a listen and see what elements of Energetic Hygiene you can make a consistent thread in your workday-- and then watch as a thousand flowers bloom!
Interested in working with Rachel in a coaching or mentoring capacity? Here are the links to learn more and/or book a free consultation to discuss:
The Business of Woo Mentoring Program: https://www.totemreadings.com/business-of-woo
TOTEM Spiritual Transformation Coaching Program: https://www.totemreadings.com/coaching
Other links to learn more about TOTEM Readings and Rachel White:
Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
New Levels, New Devils-- SOLO
Season 4 · Episode 5
samedi 4 mai 2024 • Duration 39:09
In this special, solo episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) digs a bit further into The Business of Woo: the "industry" of psychics, shamans, energy workers, and yes-- even the dreaded, mythical "life coaches".
Next up on the Business of Woo myth-busting list? Sabotage! Online harassment! Intellectual property theft! Abusive clients! Para-social strangeness!
Along with the new levels you reach in your Woo-based business, come along a myriad of proverbial "devils". Think Super Mario Brothers: every time you beat a level, you enter a new level with an increasingly fast and imposing Bowser.
I know what you're thinking. I used to think it, too:"Who has the time to cause problems for someone with a small little business like yours?"
The answer? Some people. I know. I'm just as surprised as you are. And who is usually behind the Scooby Doo mask when you pull it off? Competitors. I know. It's insane to act out of pocket and spend time or energy on a competitor. More times than not, we can all actually collaborate and help each others' Woo-based businesses.
But not everybody sees it that way. And, for that matter, not everybody believes in basic civility. But never fear: new levels, new devils? Sure. But with new devils come new devil-destroying tools and tricks, and we're here to share them with you!
Interested in working with Rachel in a coaching or mentoring capacity? Here are the links to learn more and/or book a free consultation to discuss:
The Business of Woo Mentoring Program: https://www.totemreadings.com/business-of-woo
TOTEM Spiritual Transformation Coaching Program: https://www.totemreadings.com/coaching
Other links to learn more about TOTEM Readings and Rachel White:
Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.
A Bird In The Hand-- SOLO
samedi 27 avril 2024 • Duration 37:29
In this special, solo episode of The Skeptical Shaman podcast, host Rachel White (of TOTEM Readings) digs a bit further into The Business of Woo: the "industry" of psychics, shamans, energy workers, and yes-- even the dreaded, mythical "life coaches".
Next up on the Business of Woo myth-busting list? Client retention. What is it? How do you do it? Why does it matter? And why is it actually for realsies way more important than any bullsh*t you're up to on social media.
Spoiler alert: your clients are your business, so by focusing on the fundamentals of your service delivery and just being a f*cking human being, you're already ahead of the curve.
After all: a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
My hot take? The very best new customers come from current client referrals, so focusing on delivering exceptional services and products in the moment is the most important marketing technique you can master.
Your brand is your most important asset, and as we've already covered: your brand isn't just a logo. In fact, your behaviors are the most critical, experiential aspect of your brand, and can either reinforce or erode your reputation in the marketplace.
In this episode, we dig into the crucial importance of "chopping wood and carrying water" in your Woo-based business, and why focusing on the basics and getting present and focused with each client meeting, session or consultation is the real competitive advantage.
Interested in working with Rachel in a coaching or mentoring capacity? Here are the links to learn more and/or book a free consultation to discuss:
The Business of Woo Mentoring Program: https://www.totemreadings.com/business-of-woo
TOTEM Spiritual Transformation Coaching Program: https://www.totemreadings.com/coaching
Other links to learn more about TOTEM Readings and Rachel White:
Rachel's Website: https://www.totemreadings.com
Rachel's Other Links: https://linktr.ee/totemrach
Please note: The views and opinions expressed on The Skeptical Shaman do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, protected class, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. And remember: sticks and stones may break our bones, but words—or discussions of religious or spiritual topics-- will never hurt us.