In this episode, I sit down with Luc Bellicaud - a three-time Junior World Champion from France and the developer of Lia, the AI bridge robot at IntoBridge.

Why is Luc the first French bridge player I’ve interviewed? Because last month, IntoBridge, launched a powerful new AI coaching tool, named after him. Coach Luc is designed to help beginner and intermediate players spot their bidding mistakes(!) in real time. And I wanted the scoop!

Luc started building Lia as an intern, describing himself as "quite clueless." Through time he has created an excellent partner and opponent. We discuss how he built her from the ground up and how he fixes her mistakes.

Having the coach named after you comes with pressure! Luc shares the controversy over Lia's full-deal access and why LLMs are still no match for hand-coded bridge logic.

Luc dates a bridge player who represents France internationally - and amusingly, she works for rival company Funbridge! Together they run a free weekly beginners club in Lille, fuelled by…FREE PIZZA!

Away from the table, Luc runs France's biggest YouTube bridge channel. He also refuses to fly unless he must in order to represent his country.

10:20 PM

Key Highlights:

• 🤖 Building Lia from Scratch: Starting with zero experience, Luc built Lia into a top bridge robot opponent and partner.
• 🎓 Coach Luc Goes Live: A brand-new AI feature giving real-time bidding feedback, now in beta.
• 🃏 Full Deal Access: Lia sees the full deal during card play - not to cheat, but for speed and better user experience.
• 🎥 YouTube & Bidding Systems: Luc runs France's biggest bridge YouTube channel and invented his own bidding system as a joke.

Resources and Next Steps:

🤖 Try Coach Luc on IntoBridge - Play a game and see if Coach Luc has any notes on your bidding.

▶️ Watch Luc's French Bridge YouTube Channel for weekly bridge content and lessons.

🎬 Watch the documentary Double Dummy featuring the USA junior team - with some familiar faces from Luc's opponents.

🎧 More Stories Like This - Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

📱 Follow @thesettingtrick - Stay connected on Instagram for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

YouTube Chapter Timestamps:

0:00 Introduction – Luc Bellicaud

1:53 Coach Luc: The AI Bidding Coach on IntoBridge

7:06 Learning Bridge: Beginners, Teachers & The Lille Club

14:07 Bridge Companies, FunBridge Fallout & AI Controversy

23:21 Building Lia: Coding, Bidding Logic & Design Choices

36:06 The Story Behind Lia’s Name

39:22 Bridge Life: Travel, Tournaments & Playing with His Girlfriend

49:47 Bridge Systems, Partners & Competitive Play

58:39 The Bermuda Bowl Final in Lyon

1:04:04 Double Dummy Documentary & Youth Championships

1:13:00 Luc’s YouTube Channel & Closing

Samantha Punch started playing bridge as she finished up her PhD in Sociology. Now she is on the Scottish Women's bridge team. Placing 7th in the 54th European Team Championships, allowed her team to qualify for the Venice Cup for the first time.

Sam is a sociologist at the University of Stirling and is helping them to start the academic study of the Sociology of Bridge. Sam hosted a screening of Double Dummy at the Macrobert Filmhouse in June. In this episode Sam shares how that screening has led to the creation of a university bridge club with people aged 8-78 making appearances. 

The University of Stirling is in the process of setting up a crowd funder for the Sociology of Bridge research that Sam is leading. If anyone would like to find out more, including the best way to make a donation (which can be tax efficient), please contact alumni@stir.ac.uk  or email Sam directly: s.v.punch@stir.ac.uk

Sam is also happy to hear from those who would like to be added to the bridge research mailing list (you would be sent a summary 1-2 times a year) or who are keen to participate in future research collaborations. You might like to follow them on Twitter:  @soc_of_bridge

She also mentioned the Bridge Zone, which is a 30 minute radio programme dedicated to bridge topics and supported by New Zealand Bridge. You can listen to the recent podcast (or via https://oar.org.nz/event/the-bridge-zone/)

http://accessradio.org/ProgrammePage.aspx?PID=6379a3ce-8450-482c-bad1-6b4cc2574313

On March 13th Walt Schafer began organizing bridge games on BridgeBase in response to the global shutdown. Walt continues to organize what has become known as "The Schafer Game," selflessly out of his love for bridge. I got to play with the legendary for Bob Hamman for the first time in Walt's game and we went on to win. Beating Episode 23 guests Finn Kolesnik and Jacob Freeman among others. 

A friendship has developed between the two of us thanks to this podcast conversation and I am delighted to share this conversation with a fine player and fellow bridge lover.

Episode highlights:

2:55- Previously organized bridge games at the exchange

• 8 player
• 7 week schedule
• $5 per imp

7:35- How Walt's directed tournament came to be what it is now

14:45- Walt's Bob Hamman story of a great declarer play which to this day, Walt still does not understand why it was necessary

• Written up in the bulletin
• Took a double dummy software two and a half days to make the same play

19:55- Another Bob Hamman declarer play story

22:20- a Tom Fox story

• Strong club system
• New Orleans
• Walt set up Greco and Hampson

28:40- Baby Levin

31:50- A Spingold story involving Kit Woolsey

• Ed Manfield: "Those are the best 16 boards I've ever been involved in my life"

39:00- Sometimes getting knocked out on the first day of the Spingold is a blessing in disguise

43:45- D22 GNT Qualifiers story

45:55- Junior star Finn Kolesnik

47:45- How Walt learned bridge

51:40- Walt's mentors: John and Bart Bramley

55:25- Bridge players succeed in trading options

1:13:05- Walt's first compound squeeze and how Bart just deflated him

1:15:05- Walt's greatest/favorite played hand where he uses the delayed duck squeeze

• Redouble can be a great psychological weapon

1:26:05- Walt's role in the history of the Helgemo hand

1:30:30- Walt's physic abilities

1:35:50- Walt is a bridge player at heart

• Bridge versus poker in terms of prize money

1:45:30- Walt's invented conventions

• Look out for the Shaferton

1:50:55- Hamman still got it in bridge

1:52:00- Junior bridge

1:59:55- Instant classics

Today's guest is Denmark's Morten Bilde. In addition to being a world-class bridge player with a win and a second in the U.S. Vanderbilt, Morten left his day job in 2015 to focus on getting bridge in the schools in Denmark. Stay tuned to find out why Morten says that's the best job he's ever had, as well as what the challenges are in that undertaking. Morten and his wife, Dorte met through bridge and their son, Dennis, is a real bridge superstar.

The three of them teamed up at the recent Icelandic Bridge Festival and won the team event for both the festival and the World Bridge Tour event, which preceded it. Those of you with children might be interested to learn how Morten approached teaching Dennis the game. If you've got a passion for introducing youth to bridge like I do, then Morten is your guy. He's happy to answer any of your questions, and he gives his email address towards the end of our conversation. Please enjoy my conversation with Morten Bilde. 

Alex Kolesnik: Bridge Dad +

Move over, Soccer Moms, there's a new game in town. Alex Kolesnik and his wife, Sharon Beynon, are California-based professors who play bridge. Somehow, they got both of their children interested in playing bridge too. Now ages 25 and 19, Emma and Finn are top-ranked players.

Alex, a Platinum Life Master, describes his journey as a husband, professor, player and father, encouraging his kids in all their endeavors, maintaining balance and keeping perspective. 

The Setting Trick

Episode 61: Sartaj Hans Keeps Getting Better

This week's guest is many-time Australian national champion Sartaj Hans. Originally from India, Sartaj has several high finishes in NABC events, including making the semifinal of the recent Spingold Knockout Teams in Chicago, where he played four-handed with partner Andy Hung and teammates Nabil Edgtton and Michael Whibley. 

John had his first big knockout match win in the 2014 Spingold teaming with Sartaj to beat the then 7th- seeded Cayne team.

Sartaj's book, Battling the Best, won the 2107 IBPA Book of the Year award. He also won the declarer play of the year in 2019. On top of all that, he has a successful career and is married to fellow tournament bridge player Sophie Ashton; they have two young daughters.

Sartaj discusses the psychology of bridge and how belief can make you a better player.

The need for developing a way to categorize bridge mistakes because bridge problems have so much variance.

Why postmortems are "rubbish."

Sartaj hits upon a hot-button issue: playing top-level events on computers.

A couple of book recommendations from Sartaj.

Sartaj's belief that focusing too much on system in a casual partnership is not effective.

In bridge, everyone has a chance to win. 

Working on improving and how even experts have coaches and mentors.

Finally, Sartaj philosophizes on enjoying the process.

Read Sartaj's post on Bridge Winners about playing on tablets:

https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-case-for-tablets/

Sartaj Hans' book, Battling the Best:

https://www.baronbarclay.com/battling-the-best/

Sartaj Hans wins Declarer Play of the Year:

https://www.abf.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2020_IBPA_Declarer_Play_of_the_Year.pdf

TST Episode 63: Katie Sullivan is not pumping the brakes

Katie Sullivan, as a second-year student at the University of Virginia, has infused her love of bridge with her college experience, starting an officially recognized student organization and recruiting other college kids into competitive bridge. Hear about her meteoric rise in the game and her plans for UVA world domination. 

3:47 "Chalk it up" – how creative marketing got Katie needed contacts to create a bridge club.

10:50 Obtaining CIO status and how the club fair was a game-changer.

12:26 Trumpet players and bridge. Who knew?

17:09 Hoos Playing Bridge on Instagram.

18:50 Trying to teach the fundamentals, struggling with supplies. Creating slide presentations.

28:21 A shout-out to any UVA alumni who might want to help. Many students have branched out to playing sanctioned events at clubs. Katie is proud.

32:51 Katie, in her first year of college at Amherst, meets Michael Xu.

38:41 Recovering from a painful misbid by partner.

49:06 After success at the World Youth Teams Championships, Katie plans to get "seriously serious."

53:40 Loving the postmortem.

1:05 Katie encourages all youth bridge players to plan on attending UVA when it's time for college.

Katie's article on Bridge Winners about starting a bridge club at college.

Hoos Playing Bridge on Instagram.

Katie's first BW post: a love letter.

Katie in the New Orleans NABC Daily Bulletin.

Like cards? Play bridge!

Being on our longest interview yet, Bart Bramley, a world-class bridge champion, delivered throughout the entirety of the podcast. This episode was not a typical interview. Indeed, it was Bart who steered the conversation, captaining the exploration of his fruitful life. As a master storyteller, Bart recounted innumerable adventures and provided an incredulous level of detail in each of his stories.

At the age of 71, Bramley has lived life. He may be old in terms of the myriad memories he can reminisce about, but he still has the sharp humor of a young man. Bart invites you, listeners, to experience vicariously his life journey and encounters with some of the world's greatest and most renowned players.

Highlights from Episode:

5:30- Bart's relatively low weight and his experiences with it

12:50- John Mcallister's weight and height

17:00- Bart's recollection of tournaments that he played in

21:10- Stories about Lou Bluhm

37:00- Stories about Bob Hamman

40:10- Bart's outside-of-bridge- career path

48:40- Bart's experience partnering with Bob Hamman

57:40- Bart's explanation for why Bob Hamman is a great bridge player

58:50- The importance of putting a bad board behind you

1:01:15- Bart's love for baseball

1:07:00- A funny space work project

1:27:40- A story about Harold Lilie

1:36:30- Stories about Sidney Lazard and the famous 6D hand

1:45:30- The famous Geir Helgemo hand

1:53:40- Bart's favorite event

Today my guest is Brian Platnick. He's a world champion (1991 World Junior Teams and 2010 Rosenblum Cup) with six NABC+ titles, including two Spingold wins (2010, 2017) and a victory in the Blue Ribbon Pairs (2012).

Brian is a perfect example of what inspires this podcast: the opportunity to have longer-form conversations with fascinating bridge players. The genesis for this episode was getting eliminated from the United States Bridge Championships, by Brian's team, for the second year in a row. I had too much fun talking with Brian and wasn't focused enough on winning!

If you've ever wondered if you're a world-class player, Brian has a formula for deciding (Hint, I'm not.) He also speaks candidly about where he sees himself amongst some of the best in the game. 

We talk about EDGAR (Everyone Deserves a Game Above Reproach), the anti-cheating software that he and Franco Baseggio have created that is now in use, testing an incredible number of online deals.

Anyone who likes hearing me laugh will greatly enjoy this episode. Brian kept cracking me up!

John welcomes back his first-ever guest, Gavin Wolpert, a seven-time NABC winner, including the 2021 Soloway Knockout and the 2005 Blue Ribbon Pairs with his wife, Jenny, and a two-time bronze medal winner in Open World Championships. Gavin is one of the internet's favorite Bridge teachers, using interactive problems to allow students to make mistakes and learn from them, emphasizing practice as an essential component in becoming a better bridge player, and implementing technology to provide opportunities for targeted practice.

Gavin shares his thoughts on the need for more structured and accessible bridge programs for kids and families at national tournaments. He discusses the importance of enticing kids to play bridge and creating a fun environment for them, and that bridge can help kids develop respect for older people and learn how to interact with them better.

Greg Humphreys, a talented software engineer and accomplished bridge player is featured in this episode of The Setting Trick. He is the winner of the Mott-Smith Trophy at the recent spring North American Bridge Championships, a three-time North American champion, and the best bridge player in Charlottesville, Virginia. He got hooked on bridge in 1998 and quickly joined a local club, where he found success playing with Walter Miller's 49er club. Greg studied computer science at Princeton and Stanford before moving to Charlottesville, VA, to teach at the University of Virginia. Also, Greg has since left academia and worked for several startups and major tech companies like Nvidia, Google, and Twitch.

In addition to his impressive career in computer science, Greg has also made a name for himself in the world of bridge. He has succeeded in various tournaments, including the Mixed Pairs, Platinum Pairs, Mixed BAM, and Fast Pairs. Greg and Jenni Carmichael typically play together once a year in the Mixed Pairs, which they won in 2016 and have also finished second, third, fourth, and fifth. In 2018 they made it to the finals of the World Open Pairs. This spring in Reno, they finished second in the Mixed Pairs. Greg also finished 11th in the Silodor Pairs and won the Fast Pairs, playing with Adam Parrish. 

On the other hand, when not playing bridge, Greg enjoys spending time in his woodshop, playing video games, and traveling. He also enjoys watching RuPaul's Drag Race. Also, Greg streams his bridge games on Twitch, where he plays against friends and robots on BBO.

In this conversation, Greg shares a wealth of insights and experiences about his journey in the world of Bridge. He discusses his best-ever result in a tournament, the pressure of leading, and the impact of small mistakes. He recalls an unusual game where the opposing team doubled their bid and made a strange opening lead. Greg explains how miscommunication about a bridge bidding system leads to confusion and the importance of immersing oneself in bridge and discussing hands with better players. He also talks about his accidental discovery of bridge on Yahoo and how he fell in love with the game through books and local clubs.

Additionally, Greg discusses his unique relay precision system with Jenni and the advantages of playing a solid diamond system. He mentions his experience of streaming himself playing Bridge on Twitch and the importance of supporting your partner in Bridge and dealing with bad results. Lastly, he shares his experience playing Bridge in a competitive event, including strategies, gameplay, the desire to perform well and achieve a high ranking, and the frustrations and challenges of teaching beginners in Bridge.

[06:37] Best Result Ever – Greg discusses what he considers to be his best-ever result.

[10:11] Pressure: The pressure of leading in bridge tournaments and the impact of small mistakes.

[19:53] Unusual Tactics – Greg recalls a bridge game where the opposing team doubled their bid and made a strange opening lead.

[23:27] Bidding Confusion and Resolution – Greg explains how miscommunication about a bridge bidding system leads to confusion.

[25:50] Discovering Bridge – Greg tells how he accidentally discovered Bridge on Yahoo and fell in love with the game through books and local clubs. 

[34:03] Non-Standard Homebrew System-  Bizarre Bridge System Leads to Unforeseen Victory

[43:43] UVA - Reasons for choosing UVA for an academic career

[52.48] Partnership with Jenny – Greg talks about playing Bridge with Jenny and the frequency of playing together. He also discusses their effort to practice online before a tournament and their unique relay precision system, which requires some study.

Resources:

Connect with Greg:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/greghumphreys/

Twitter: twitter.com/humper

Mentioned in the episode:

Physically Based Rendering: From Theory to Implementation: amazon.com/Physically-Based-Rendering-Theory-Implementation/dp/0128006455?redirectFromSmile=1

We have saved today's guest to appear once the next in-person Nationals loomed near. Meet Jenni Carmichael, our first tournament director on the show and spouse of TST Guest #24 Tom Carmichael. A fine storyteller, Jenni finds the humor and draws out the drama.  

Episode Highlights:

1:20- Chances of Austin Nationals happening

5:23- Requirements to become a director

11:15- 3SXX making is clearly an average board

15:00- "I just have four cards left to play"

17:05- How Jenny got into directing

24:00- "The only law we care about is God's law"

28:46- "Does he have his bid?"

40:44- Bridge camps

46:30- Mixed Pair stories of absurd scores, intense pressure, and momentum

53:26- If no Greg, maybe no Double Dummy

55:20- Jenni once held a long grudge against her current director idol

1:11:12- It is useless to psych against Jenni

1:14:13- But her psychs are deadly

Andrew Robson is a giant, in both height and bridge; he is 6 feet 6 inches tall and has won a slew of titles, including back to back Reisingers in 1998 and 1999. On top of all his bridge accolades, he has met the Queen of England, received the prestigious "Other Buggers' Efforts" award, and survived a 100 foot fall.

If you want to learn more about Andrew and his bridge adventures, there is a great page on his website called Andrew's Life in Bridge, where I learned many of the stories I asked Andrew about today. 

COVID finally got Andrew to start presenting a daily video series, where I've learned a lot of card play nuances in the advanced section https://andrewrobsonbridgecast.com

Subscribers to The Setting Trick email list may access Andrew breaking down Adam Kaplan's play on a deal featured in Double Dummy here.

Episode Highlights:

1:42- A horrible accident that broke his legs

9:22- He's not a model student

12:27- Andrew's education

• Imagine doing worse on a test than a monkey would

15:37- The tournament that was vital to Andrew's confidence as a bridge player

18:52- A wildly successful psych

22:10- How Andrew met one of his partners, Rita Shugart

24:20- Andrew is an "Other Buggers' Efforts" award winner!

27:42- When your team sucks at losing IMPS

29:52- The pain of losing in the semi-finals of a Bermuda Bowl by 1 IMP and then losing again by 1 IMP in the third place playoff

31:37- Amazing bidding by Andrew and his partner, David Gold

• David Thompson's quote from Bridge Winners, "The video of auction is quite interesting: https://youtu.be/diMipYWGr3c?t=20293

The auction took 12 minutes including 3 minutes for the 7♦ bid and 5 minutes for David Gold's final pass. Whilst 7♦ was certainly a brilliant bid by Robson, Gold's pass was pretty impressive also having diagnosed the sorts of hands Robson could be holding and successfully determining the inferiority of a ♠ contract."

38:07- Andrew Robson Bridge Club

41:27- John's mother might have a crush on Andrew

45:12- The members of the popular rock band, Radiohead, went to Andrew's school!

49:07- The future of bridge and youth teaching

53:07- Andrew's memories of September 11, 2001

58:07- "Oh, you farted" ~Zia Mahmood

1:02:02- Andrew had to track Simon Stockten down in the Himalayas

Jeff Meckstroth needs no introduction. His name is synonymous with winning. When I first laid eyes on him, some eight years ago, at the Williamsburg Regional, I thought, "Wow, there's Jeff Meckstroth!"

Now, amazingly, here he is, full of good humor, stories and even some encouragement for my own game on The Setting Trick podcast.

In our wide ranging conversation, Jeff shares about meeting Eric Rodwell, how he knew Rod was the partner for him, getting started professionally and getting fired by both George Rosenkrantz and Nick Nickell!

One of my favorite parts of this interview came from a throwaway question about Jeff's partner for the upcoming Platinum Pairs. The only NABC event Jeff doesn't play with Rod. Jeff has partners lined up seven years out!

Meck is open about making mistakes, the importance of putting them behind you, underachieving on the Nickell team of late and his appreciation for those who have helped pave the way for his incredible success at the highest level.

Jeff recently befriended Jeopardy champion James Holzhauer. If you only have time for one story, starting at the 3:22 mark, check out how Jeff too quickly pulled a false card, in a friendly match against James and Josh Donn at the recent San Francisco NABC.

Other highlights from the episode include:

6:30- Jeff's advice to James and all bridge players

7:20- How Jeff met Eric Rodwell

10:40- A multi-system that Jeff used to play with Rodwell until it was banned

12:30- How Jeff learned bridge

13:40- Jeff's experience with winning the King of Bridge award

18:25- The 1979 Reisinger

24:30- Jeff's favorite bridge victory

28:00- How Jeff views his titles when he sits down to play

30:30- What Jeff cherishes about bridge

34:00- The aftermath of Jeff's departure from team Nickell

38:20- How Rodwell loves to tinker with their system

49:10- One hand doesn't mean anything

50:30- More on how Jeff started playing bridge

59:40- How Jeff helps up and coming professionals

1:01:00- Jeff's thoughts about the future of professional bridge

1:08:40- Jeff's father's heart attack episode

1:15:20- Jeff's funny story about a creative bid that led to a change in scoring

1:22:25- Jeff's family

1:31:50- Jeff on bridge dreams

1:34:00- Starting out with Nickell

1:41:49- The importance of moving on from your mistakes

1:49:23- Jeff's lineup for the next seven platinum pairs

Bridge came naturally to Michael Rosenberg.

In this episode, I sit down with Avery Silverstein, a 17-year-old bridge prodigy who has fallen hard for the game. Despite her young age, Avery has already earned two medals at the Junior World Championships and reached the round of 16 in the Vanderbilt as my partner. We discuss her journey from family bridge club kid to international competitor, including having her father, professional player Aaron Silverstein, as her primary mentor. Avery talks candidly about balancing her senior year of high school with competitive bridge, her training regimen, and how she manages the pressure of representing her country on the world stage.

From our dramatic 62-IMP comeback victory against the seventh seed to her heartbreaking silver medal finish at the U16 World Championships, Avery shares the emotional highs and lows of being deeply invested in the game. We explore her multifaceted life, which includes being close to a black belt in mixed martial arts and playing on her school's rugby team. Avery also discusses the college admissions process, her 26 college applications, and the possibility of taking a gap year to focus on professional bridge. With warmth and maturity beyond her years, she reflects on mentorship, the importance of being a great teammate, and her mission to help grow the next generation of junior players.

🏆 Silver Medal Journey: Avery recounts her team's incredible comeback from being the bottom three or four teams after two days to reaching the final and earning silver at the U16 World Championships.

🎯 Epic Vanderbilt Comeback: The story of our partnership defeating the seventh seed in the Vanderbilt after being down 62 IMPs at halftime, including the dramatic final quarter where our opponents took a 10-minute break and we closed with three consecutive double-digit wins.

👨‍👧 Father-Daughter Mentorship: Avery discusses the unique dynamics of having Aaron Silverstein as both her dad and primary bridge mentor, including managing nepotism concerns, disagreeing with his advice 15-20% of the time, and how their system evolves differently from his professional partnerships.

📚 System Evolution: How Avery and her partner Jack Boge have built an 80-90 page system document by borrowing from top professionals, playing transfer club, constructive two-bids, and constantly refining their approach through weekly practice sessions.

🎧 More Stories Like This – Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

📱 Follow @thesettingtrick – Stay connected on Instagram for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

0:00 Start

0:00 Introduction to Avery Silverstein

1:30 Growing up with professional bridge player parents

2:10 Becoming better than mom at bridge

3:10 Life at the family bridge club

4:20 What friends think about bridge

6:30 Previous podcast appearances and media coverage

7:20 Managing school absences for tournaments

8:10 The beautiful Madeira tournament experience

15:00 Partnership dynamics and playing with different people

24:00 Competing at World Junior Championships

35:00 The intense preparation and practice routine

45:00 Memorable hands and tournament moments

55:00 International bridge community and friendships

1:03:00 Norwegian competitor Nikolai Berg Evans

1:05:00 The pressure of must-win matches

1:06:00 Silver medal heartbreak and "chasing gold"

1:07:30 Weekend plans and upcoming tournaments

1:08:10 MMA training and competition record

1:09:00 Four gold medals and three silver medals in MMA

1:10:00 Looking ahead to St. Louis and future competitions

I'm thrilled to welcome Antonio Palma from Portugal to the show today. Antonio has had an incredible run of second-place finishes in recent years, including the Rosenblum, European Mixed Championships, Soloway Knockouts, and Spingold. Last year, he broke through by winning the pairs in Madeira, leading Sjoert Brink to call him the best matchpoint player in the world, and then claiming the Club de Compiastre trophy at the South American Championships. But the real celebration came recently when he finally won the Reisinger at the Fall NABC, ending that streak of seven consecutive finals losses. It was a relief, Antonio says.

In our conversation, Antonio opens up about what those years of finishing second felt like, the moment he realized he'd won the Reisinger (he wasn't even playing the final set!), and his journey from professional poker player to bridge champion. We discuss how poker shaped his approach to pressure moments and reading cards, why defense is his favorite part of the game, his challenges with tilting at the table, and the soon to be legendary hand where he took 23 minutes to defend two hearts and made Bobby Levin want to quit bridge. This was a particularly enjoyable conversation with one of bridge's rising stars.

___________________________________________________________________

🏆 Breaking the Curse: After seven consecutive finals losses, Antonio finally won the Reisinger and describes the overwhelming relief of no longer wondering if he was good enough to win the big one.

🍺 Watching from the Bar: Antonio didn't play the final set. Instead, he watched from the bar with Johan Upmark, drinking beer, watching football and hoping!

🃏 From Poker Pro to Bridge Champion: Antonio was previously a professional. He explains how those skills help him read cards, handle pressure, and control emotions during critical moments in bridge.

🛡️ Defense is Everything: Antonio reveals that defense is his favorite part of bridge, and miscommunication on defense is what tilts him the most, especially when signals get crossed.

😤 The Tilt is Real: Multiple teammates confirm that Antonio tilts easily at the table. He admits it's his South European blood and shares the story of a complex diamond lead that went wrong and cost them a critical board.

⏱️ The 23-Minute Defense: Antonio took 23 minutes to defend two hearts, eventually finding the only winning line. Bobby Levin responded in the chat saying he wanted to quit bridge, and Antonio's team still lost the match by forty-six IMPs.

🤝 Nystrom as Mentor: Antonio credits Fredrik Nystrom as his best teammate and mentor who takes every question seriously, helps him improve, and understands when he needs space after tilting.

🥈 European Mixed Silver Medal: Playing with Andrea Nilsson, Simon Holt, and Maya Lo Björk Heed, Antonio made it to the European Mixed Championships final in 2023, losing by just five IMPs.

___________________________________________________________________

🎧 More Stories Like This - Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

📱 Follow @thesettingtrick - Stay connected on Instagram and for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

This is a long anticipated conversation for our host John McAllister as he finally sits down with English star David Gold. David considers himself lucky to play with legends Zia Mahmood for the North American Bridge Championships and Andrew Robson for the English open team. Fresh off competing in the European Bridge Championships in Poznań, Poland, David shares insights into his bridge journey, memorable stories, and his passion for food, highlighted by his new Instagram project, Eat Like Gold.

Key Highlights:

• 🍽️ Food Adventures: The seeds for this episode took place between rounds of the European championships. David had just launched his Instagram account, sharing behind-the-scenes footage from kitchens and his unique experiences trying new cuisines while traveling for bridge tournaments.

• 🃏 Legendary Partnerships: Dive into David's experiences playing with bridge legends Zia Mahmood and Andrew Robson, including arguably one of the better bid hands of all-time, an unforgettable seven-diamond contract.

• 🏅 Bridge Career Reflections: David reflects on significant milestones, such as finishing second in the 2008 Olympiad, emphasizing how rare these opportunities can be.

• 👨‍👧‍👦 Family Life: David shares the joys and humor of parenting two young children and how family life balances with the competitive bridge scene.

• 🎬 Creating Content: Hear about David's journey into social media content creation, his philosophy of storytelling through food, and his inspirations, including the legendary Anthony Bourdain.

Resources & Next Steps:

• Stay tuned for his upcoming bridge competitions, including the Bermuda Bowl and North American Bridge Championships.

• Explore David's recommended eateries and hidden food gems around the globe.

• 🎧 More Stories Like This – Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

• 📱 Follow @thesettingtrick – Stay connected on Instagram and for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

Ever feel like you have been cheated playing bridge online? Have you taken the time to report the pair by filing a player memo? Join John McAllister as he sits down with Jeff Edelstein, the ACBL recorder and a Grand Life Master, for a revealing conversation about the nuances of cheating detection, ethical prosecution, and the human stories behind bridge's biggest integrity challenges. From Edgar, the cutting-edge cheating detection software, to personal anecdotes and behind-the-scenes insights, this episode unpacks the complexities of keeping bridge fair, and human.

• 🎖️ Grand Life Master: Jeff Edelstein shares his journey, including winning the North American Pairs with Matthew Weingarten.

• 🧑‍⚖️ What Does a Recorder Do? – Edelstein explains his role in investigating player memos, and what happens once a complaint is filed.

• 📊 Edgar's Precision – Learn about Edgar, a powerful detection software designed by Franco Baseggio and Brian Platnick, which analyzes bridge hands for cheating patterns.

• 🕵️ Manual Investigation vs. Edgar – Edelstein describes the painstaking manual review process compared to Edgar's lightning-fast analysis.

• ⚠️ Real-life Consequences – Jeff shares the story of John's misconduct, highlighting how disciplinary processes affect players.

• ❤️ Compassion in Discipline – Edelstein discusses shifting from a strict disciplinary perspective to embracing compassion and rehabilitation.

• 🗣️ Proper Conduct – What constitutes ethical breaches and how to appropriately address suspected cheating or misconduct at the table.

• 🚨 Changes in ACBL Discipline – How Edgar has transformed disciplinary processes from handling a few cases monthly to managing hundreds.

• 🎧 More Stories Like This – Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

• 📱 Follow @thesettingtrick – Stay connected on Instagram and for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

In this episode, John interviews Lynn Castoldi, fresh off two huge wins at the Spring NABC — the 10K Knockout Teams and the Women's Swiss Teams, the latter by a razor-thin margin of just 0.13 VPs. With her signature laugh, Lynn shares the stories behind her victories, her partnership with Ann Karin Fuglestad, and how she went from getting kicked out of bridge lessons at a senior center to becoming a national champion. Along the way, we hear about bridge cruises, recruiting Egyptian pros on BBO, and the stylish team scarves that helped tie it all together.

Whether she's playing with a world-class junior or her long-time partner the "Minister of Defense," Lynn brings enthusiasm, optimism, and a love of the game that's totally contagious.

🥇 Lynn won two events at the Spring NABC — including her first 10K title after finishing second the year before

🧣 Her Women's Swiss team wore matching scarves — her signature touch as team captain

🎲 She met her mixed partner Aly by chance on Bridge Base during COVID

💥 One highlight of the Women's Swiss: a gutsy 4♠ bid leading to a +1100 against a pro

🌎 Lynn played international events like Four Jacks in Dubai, repping the US

🧠 She's constantly learning — like practicing hand patterns and soaking up insights from partners like Greg Hinze and Christian Lahrmann

😂 Her signature laugh is well-known, and she isn't afraid to bring humor and lightness to even the most competitive tables

• 🎧 More Stories Like This – Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

📱 Follow @thesettingtrick – Stay connected on Instagram and for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

Brian Reynolds is an LA-based bridge teacher who, with his wife, Samantha, runs an educational website, The Bridge Teachers. They specialize in teaching people who've "never touched a deck of cards."

That's how they got recommended to the production team for the bridge documentary film, "The Kids Table." That initial meeting dramatically altered the film's storyline. One player quit on the spot!

As a bridge pro, Brian is refreshingly candid about his bridge ability. This conversation covers a broad range of topics.

Ever wonder about the theme music that accompanies The Setting Trick and Double Dummy? Listen to this bonus episode, the first of John telling stories about the genesis of his bridge media. 

Greg Humphreys, a talented software engineer and accomplished bridge player features in this episode of The Setting Trick. He is the winner of the Mott-Smith Trophy at the recent spring North American Bridge championships, a three-time North American champion, and the best bridge player in Charlottesville, Virginia. He got hooked on Bridge in 1998 and quickly joined a local club, where he found success playing with Walter Miller's 49er club. Greg studied computer science at Princeton and Stanford before moving to Charlottesville, VA, to teach at the University of Virginia. Also, Greg has since left academia and worked for several startups and major tech companies like Nvidia, Google, and Twitch.

[07:00] Improving Your Bridge Game -  Greg emphasizes the importance of immersing oneself in Bridge and discussing hands with better players.

[12:48] Recursive Diamond - Advantages of playing a solid diamond system and the benefits of opening with one club instead of one diamond.

[18:50] Streaming Bridge on Twitch – Greg mentions his experience of streaming himself playing Bridge on Twitch.

[28:16] Partner Support in Bridge - Importance of supporting your partner in Bridge and dealing with bad results.

[32:54] Competitive Bridge Strategies and Performance – Greg outlines his experience playing Bridge in a competitive event, including strategies, gameplay, and the desire to perform well and achieve a high ranking.

[57:04] Teaching beginners in Bridge - Frustrations and challenges

Resources:

Connect with Greg:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/greghumphreys/

Twitter: twitter.com/humper

Mentioned in the episode:

Physically Based Rendering: From Theory to Implementation: amazon.com/Physically-Based-Rendering-Theory-Implementation/dp/0128006455?redirectFromSmile=1

This week's episode of the Setting Trick: Conversations with World-Class Bridge Players turns the tables and features professional player Greg Hinze interviewing host John McAllister. In this conversation, we cover John's background, his favorite bridge books, his experiences at the national and world championships, his documentary movie about bridge, the reasons why he started the podcast, and more. 

 [01.29] John's background – Starting the conversation, John discusses his Virginia roots, where he lives, where he went to college, and why he wants to stay there. 

[08.40] Books – John and Greg talk about some of the best books about bridge. 

[20.43] The summer nationals – We talk about John's experience with mixed board-a-match teams in Providence at the summer nationals and the open BAM at the fall NABC. 

[23.31] The movie – We talk about the movie called 'Double Dummy' produced by John, about bridge. 

[32.10] The podcast – John shares the reasons behind starting his podcast and continuing until now. 

[33:48] Meeting Migry – John remembers meeting partner Migry Zur Campanile and playing mixed teams at the world championships.

[43.50] Bridge conventions – John chooses his desert island bridge convention.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Greg Hinze: Hello everybody. Welcome to the Setting Trick. Uh, I'm your guest host, uh, Greg Hinsey. Uh, our normal host with the most will not be available today as a host. So without further ado, let me introduce our special guest star today. Creator of the Setting Trick Podcast, producer of the new movie, double Dummy and newly crowned N A B C Champion, my friend, John McAllister.

[00:00:36] Hi John. Hey 

[00:00:36] John McAllister: Greg . Thanks for having me. , should I think I cut you off there at the end, . 

[00:00:43] Greg Hinze: So how you feel being on the other side of 

[00:00:45] John McAllister: you? Nervous? I am, I'm definitely nervous. I didn't know what to expect and I, I definitely like, probably 20 minutes before I got home I was. And I was definitely like, okay, this is, uh, I get nervous before I host the show.

[00:00:59] But, uh, to be this is a real honor to have you do this, uh, to have you do this for me. I feel a great honor for 

[00:01:06] Greg Hinze: you having me, uh, do this. Uh, so, uh, I, I'm nervous too, so , so we just dive right in? Yeah, sure. Okay. Uh, yeah, just tell me a little bit about yourself. Cause I like, where are you from? Where'd you grow up?

[00:01:19] And uh, okay. 

[00:01:20] John McAllister: How, how'd you, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna go back. This is where you're now just a brief, so in Phoenix, the, the way this conversation came to pass is in Phoenix, after we won the Mitchell Board of Match, my first N A B C victory, you, Greg offered to, to flip the script here on the setting trick and to interview me.

[00:01:39] And so that's how this conversation came to pass. And when I texted you about, You were like, I wasn't sure if you were totally committed to it, but you sent me a list of questions and you and you, you know, you had your intro planned, so I really appreciate that. I, um, it says a lot about you and just to go from there, I grew up, and I still live in Charlottesville, Virginia.

[00:02:05] I went to college at the University of Virginia, which is here. My mom is originally from Charlottesville and. It's a great place to live. I've thought about living elsewhere, but haven't really found a compelling reason to, uh, to move just yet. I get a lot of travel playing bridge, so I, I get to vi see the world through bridge tournaments, which is, I think is a, as you probably would attest, a great way to, to see the world.

[00:02:33] Greg Hinze: Yeah. I haven't seen much of the world myself. Uh, mainly just America. I've seen . But, uh, so what, you mentioned you gave 'em to college there, uh, as well. What, what did you study? Study 

[00:02:43] John McAllister: when you, I like to joke when people ask me what I studied in college, that I was in a fraternity, , because I really, I was a good student in.

[00:02:54] Like I went to a very academically rigorous high school, a boarding school, all, all male boarding school, about an hour from here called Woodbury Forest. And the, the teachers there really challenged me to work hard to learn the material. And then by the time I got to U V A, I sort of crapped out on school.

[00:03:12] I was technically a history major. I tried to get into the undergraduate commerce school and my, uh, they didn't accept me and. Yeah, so I was technically a history major, but I had worse grades in history than I did in other subjects. It was sort of a last minute thing. My, one of my best friend's dad was a history professor, and so he could be my advisor and it was sort of the easy, easy thing to do when it was time to declare a major at the end of my second year.

[00:03:42] And so 

[00:03:42] Greg Hinze: outta school, you went, I had read that you were on involved in the hedge fund company or something. Yeah. You did that for, 

[00:03:50] John McAllister: yeah. So. There's this guy named Jeffrey Woodruff, who is a hedge fund manager here in Charlottesville. And my parents, my, were actually friends with Jeffery's parents when, when we were younger.

[00:04:06] And so I got interested in trading because I played a lot of backgammon after I graduated from uva. My roommate and I in New York City would play backgammon all the time, and we played for pretty decent stake. And so through backgammon I heard a, uh, I heard a recording where somebody was talking about trading, and that really appealed to me from like the same sort of thinking logic as backgammon.

[00:04:34] And so I got a. The reason I brought up Jeffrey's name is because three different people, my mother, my piano teacher, and then a woman that my piano teacher had set me up with all suggested they knew I was interested in trading, that I should reach out to this guy, Jeffrey Woodruff, and I didn't do it. I never reached out to any of those through any of those people suggesting it.

[00:04:56] Only when he, his company, appeared on the U V A. Uh, job site looking for interns. Did I actually reach out? And then I had a seven and a half year career working there, which ended in, in, in 2012. And, uh, I just got, I just was tired of working for, uh, doing that at that time. Had you, uh, played bridge yet?

[00:05:19] Yeah, so I played, I started playing bridge when I was 18. My parents knew how to play and my aunt suggested it and. I loved it immediately, but I didn't really have an outlet for it. Like in New York City, for example, I lived, after I graduated U V A, I lived probably two blocks from honors, and it never even occurred to me to seek out a bridge game in, in, uh, in the city.

[00:05:46] You didn't know it existed, but you were right nearby it. Yeah. Yeah. There was a backgammon club that I never went to, but I was, I wanted to try to go there to play backgammon for money against other players, and I never got the courage up to do it, but it didn't even occur to me to think like I loved bridge.

[00:06:03] Like it, it was something I did with my parents when I came home and it didn't, like I played spades with co, with friends in college, but I didn't actually occur to, to explain bridge. To them, how, how did you 

[00:06:18] Greg Hinze: find the Bridge Club or whatever to get into the A C B L? 

[00:06:21] John McAllister: So, my older sister had three friends that were looking for her fourth for bridge classes when I moved back to Charlottesville.

[00:06:29] And she knew I loved it and she suggested it. And then that woman took me to the, uh, to the local Bridge Club for the first. And have you, uh, 

[00:06:41] Greg Hinze: thought about making a movie at this point yet at 

[00:06:43] John McAllister: all, or no? No. Podcast or No, no, no. This is probably, this is, this was in like 2000. And 

[00:06:49] Greg Hinze: so you learned, you learned from your, your, your 

[00:06:51] John McAllister: sister, you said?

[00:06:52] So my sister would be our fourth. So my parents kind of knew how to play and my sister would be our fourth, but she wasn't, she never really got into it. She was just willing, a willing participant. And then she had friends that were looking for a fourth, for a, like a weekly bridge class. Oh, 

[00:07:09] Greg Hinze: that's good.

[00:07:10] And, uh, what did you start reading about Bridge? Like, uh, do you read books? Did you play online? So 

[00:07:17] John McAllister: we had a Bridge for Dummies book that I bought and we would, when I played with my parents, we would sort of have that out. They had like a two page cheat sheet maybe. And I had bridge books, uh, that I would read.

[00:07:32] Yeah, I don't exactly remember what, what my first bridge books were or how it all, but I mean, I like, I like consuming information about bridge. Like that is one of the things I, I love playing Bridge. Like to this day I love playing bridge. I love consuming information about Bridge and reading Bridge books is a big part.

[00:07:56] What's your favorite, 

[00:07:57] Greg Hinze: uh, couple 

[00:07:58] John McAllister: Bridge books? Uh, well, that's a good question. I'm reading right now Bridge with Another Perfect partner, which I think was the I B P A book of the year. And so that's by John Caruthers, who I don't actually know. I don't think I know him. I, I don't know if he plays tournaments or not.

[00:08:17] He's Canadian. And it's like a at the table book where, you know, they give you the deal and he's got this partner who is a real, like a real expert. And so that guy explains the, uh, how the deal should be played or how he did play it, or how he created an illusion to, you know, to beat the contract. It's not something that you can read.

[00:08:46] I'll read, you know, a couple of deals at a time and then like, do something else cuz it's Bridge Books are not like Rare. Is the Bridge book, uh, um, what's the name of that book? Uh, with the unlucky expert. Oh, uh, the, the Men. Oh. Why You Lose a Bridge? Why You Lose a Bridge? That's probably the, that is a rare bridge book and that you can read it.

[00:09:11] Like I can read that book all the way. Without, I've always enjoyed 

[00:09:16] Greg Hinze: like, uh, the Bridge and the Menagerie series. Uh, and they had the carpa, I think he was a unlucky expert or whatever. Uh, he was labeled as such. But, uh, that was always fun to read. Uh, they, they could, you could read through those things. Uh, just kind of, I just enjoyed the characters and it was a good bridge.

[00:09:33] Uh, like a lot of non bridge stuff 

[00:09:35] John McAllister: at the same time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And hilarious. So well written Victor Ma. . So, uh, 

[00:09:42] Greg Hinze: you just got into the A C B O and then you started, uh, going to tournaments. 

[00:09:47] John McAllister: Uh uh so, uh, traveling the world, playing bridge everywhere. No, no, no. So shook the, my first Bridge teacher was a woman named Shook, and she was pretty eccentric French woman, and she could play with me once a month at the local bridge.

[00:10:04] And so then she found this guy who was younger than me who was a UVA student, and she started playing with him. And then I started playing with him. His name's Jason Holderness, and he was better than I was. And we then went, uh, Jason and I, when the D Nationals were in DC in like 2009, I think Jason and I went up there and we played in like a two session.

[00:10:30] 1 99 or pair game that we won. And so we got little trophies from that, which unfortunately I threw away, I think. I think I threw away the photo that they took too. . But I forget what your original question. Just like, 

[00:10:43] Greg Hinze: you know, when you started playing tournaments and, you know, traveling a bit more, uh, as, as opposed 

[00:10:48] John McAllister: to just going to the local.

[00:10:49] So like, uh, my first national was in 2012, so I quit my job at Quantitative Investment Management and I gave, like, they said, will you give us two weeks? And so the last day of my two weeks was, Like that day, literally that day I left for Memphis to play in my first national, that was in spring of 2012.

[00:11:12] And there was a sectional the weekend before and I hired this kid named Rob Brady, who was a UVA student who was a, a pro to be my partner. And I forget who our teammates were, but we won the Swiss and that was my first time winning a sectional Swiss. And winning the Swiss made me a life master. Oh wow.

[00:11:36] That's 

[00:11:36] Greg Hinze: a, that was a good timing for everything. pretty, pretty fun. Pretty fun. So, uh, so, so then after that you were just like hooked on nationals? Uh, I mean cuz nationals are pretty fun experience. Uh, I mean, if you haven't been to one, I think they're really fun things to go to. 

[00:11:54] John McAllister: So, Yes. I mean, essentially yes, I, before I played my first national, I was in at a conference for work in February of 2012, and it was in Palm Beach and Gavin Wilpert lives near there.

[00:12:10] And so I knew about Gavin from Bridge Winners and I messaged him on B B O and asked him if I could play with him. And so I played two days with him in the sectional. And he said, which I think is a great piece of advice that I like to give out to people is play against the best competition that you can play against, and that's playing at the Nationals.

[00:12:31] So, uh, I've been fortunate to, I've gone to every national but won since then. And I've also played in, uh, one, two, played in four World championships now. Very good. Uh, where was your favorite place to play Bridge? I think Tromso Norway, I played in the European championships there, and it's inside of the Arctic Circle.

[00:12:58] So it's, it was in the summer and literally the sun didn't go down. Um, that was a pretty unique, a unique experience. So how is 

[00:13:10] Greg Hinze: bridge over there like, uh, run differently than it is here? Like, uh, is cuz it feels like it, you know, we may be a little bit outdated in, uh, some of the technology available. is when you played like in the world championships, uh, over 

[00:13:25] John McAllister: how did, well I think the first time I played behind screens was at a bridge tournament in a Bulgaria.

[00:13:31] And the top seven tables were behind screens, and they had like plastic boards. And I remember the, the further that we got in down in the table ranking, we had never seen this before. We had like these leather, little leather sleeves that had the cards in them, but the European championships. And the world Championships, as I imagine, you know, are like, they're all screens, all the tables are screens.

[00:14:01] You're playing the same deals at the same time. Everybody's playing the same deals. It's, uh, it's cool because there's a lot of people there that I, that are new to me. So, you know, the national, the US nationals tends to be, tends to be a lot of the same people. But in Europe it was like a whole new, whole new crew of people.

[00:14:24] More, uh, uh, 

[00:14:25] Greg Hinze: foreigners come to America than Americans go to the foreign countries. It seems, um, there's not very many Americans that really do much traveling to play bridge over there as, as far as, as over here seems. Do you find it that way or do you know a lot of Americans that are going all over 

[00:14:42] John McAllister: these?

[00:14:42] Uh, you know, the, the, the Americans that are hiring real, like good teams for the nationals tend to probably play over there. , I would think like there's a tournament. The European Open is this summer in Strasberg, uh, which I think is in France, and the head of the E B L was telling me that he wants to get 200 teams in the open, which would be amazing.

[00:15:09] I would really like to go for it, but I don't have firm plans yet for planning that. Also, it feels like in Europe that the. The main events are really the main events like the, the A C B L does a good job of making the events that are going on concurrent to the soloway, like the Board of Match that we won.

[00:15:29] They make a good, they do a good job of making those like standalone. Whereas I feel like when you get knocked out in Europe of an event, it's, it's not really a title and an event like that doesn't really carry the same magnitude of that. It might in the A C B L. I see. So, 

[00:15:48] Greg Hinze: What kind of, uh, systems do you like to play?

[00:15:50] John McAllister: Um, . I like to play pretty basic, uh, two over one natural bidding. Not a lot of complexity. I don't have a, like, I don't have a strong long-term partnership with one individual, so I've noticed over the years 

[00:16:09] Greg Hinze: you do play with a lot of, a lot of different, uh, players, and I think that's a good thing. What do you feel.

[00:16:16] You learn like a little bit of something from, you know, everybody 

[00:16:19] John McAllister: you play with. I mean, one thing I'll say about Bridge, I think I really like to play with people that I enjoy their company and I feel like that we're a good, I feel like, like it's important for me to be able to discuss like the, the, my partner has the right mentality and that we can discuss the boards that we didn't do well and not get, not get angry with each other.

[00:16:45] Greg Hinze: So, uh, yeah. Okay. We've been mentioning, uh, the Mitchell Border match, which you just recently won. Yeah. There you were playing with a, a relatively new partnership. Yeah. I 

[00:16:53] John McAllister: was playing with, uh, spinny Erickson, who I met. I played the Icelandic, uh, the VEC Bridge Festival a couple years ago, and I met s Spinny there and he was playing with this guy named Neils, who's Danish.

[00:17:10] And the two of them were just pure comedy. Like Neils had tried to rent a car for the tournament and it had all gone haywire. And he had gone through all these, all this effort to get this car that eventually really just sat in a parking garage in vec. Like he didn't even use it after spending all this energy and time trying to get this car.

[00:17:33] And so that story, being told that story over the course of like the days of the event, really, I mean, we laughed so hard about. So much. And so I really enjoyed him. And then in Austin, uh, the first N A B C Post Covid, he was there and I needed a partner for the Swiss. And so we got to talking and we did pretty well in that.

[00:17:59] And then we played the Swiss again in Providence and we did well on that. And so, We played the same teammates this, uh, whole time. Uh, the teammates for the Swiss and Providence and, and for Phoenix were the same. Uh, Jovi, uh, Jovi Smatter of, uh, and Sasha Warn, they're Austrian a mixed pair, Jovi's a woman.

[00:18:26] Greg Hinze: And uh, so was that, uh, everybody, everybody's first, uh, been there on your team? Yes. That's pretty exciting for you all to experience it at the same time. So like how, how long were you just on the moon? 

[00:18:39] John McAllister: Uh, you know, probably like a good, good 10 days through the rest of the nationals for sure. Yeah, definitely.

[00:18:45] definitely it, it's, I, I mean I playing with Jovi and Sasha in a mixed board of Match in Providence, the summer national, we came in second and we were leading after every segment of the, of the event. But the last one, And that was the first time I'd ever come in second and the first time I'd ever really even been close to winning in one of these events.

[00:19:08] And so we had a really good session in the, on the second day of the board of Match, the Mitchell's a two day event. And I had been in the position before and I really wanted to win this time. And then during the session, spinny and I, we just didn't seem like it was going well. We got to probably. Third from Final Round and we played against Curtis Cheek and we got to Issa and Curtis's table and they're like, how's it going?

[00:19:41] And Spinny is like, no, we don't have a chance. . So, but yeah, I mean we just didn't, but you know, Jovi and Sasha play this canape system, strong club, so. I don't know how we won, but we won comfortably. It, it was, it was like, uh, yeah, when, when the woman from the A C V L told, told me that we had won, she goes, John, you won.

[00:20:09] And I went like, like I had to cut myself off from really squealing like I wanted to. I think a lot of people. I think a lot of people did hear you. And that was, that was like probably one half or one third of what I like if I really had Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:20:32] Greg Hinze: I just remember seeing you that, uh, day right afterwards and uh, whenever to say, look, and you were just like beeping, like, I mean 

[00:20:38] John McAllister: it was like, you still 

[00:20:41] Greg Hinze: happy?

[00:20:43] So you went from first National 2012 to winning national like 10 years later. Um, but it's somewhere in between there. You decided that you were going to produce a movie about Bridge called Double Dummy. So 

[00:21:00] John McAllister: why, what happened there? So my first national event was the IMP pairs in Memphis, and I played with a local guy from Charlottesville named Greg Humphreys, who I'm sure you know.

[00:21:13] And Greg, he has a Emmy, right? He has a, he has a Academy Award. He has like an Academy award, I think for create, for writing a book about motion graphics or something like that. So Memphis was my first national, I didn't know anybody, and he invited me to this brainstorming session on how do we get new players?

[00:21:42] Uh, young people playing bridge and I, I really didn't even know what the event was, but he said, there's a free dinner, there's gonna be people there. And so I thought, I thought, okay, great. I, I need to meet some people. I want to make some friends and free dinner sounds okay. I mean, maybe it won't be the best food, but whatever.

[00:22:00] And so that was, I had just quit my job. I did marketing for the hedge fund, so I knew, like I knew how to sell things or what. . And so that was kind of the, that was the free dinner. 

[00:22:14] Greg Hinze: I see. So, but the no experience or anything, you just up and like this is gonna be brand new, like the whole movie industry, uh, outta nowhere.

[00:22:23] Like, I mean, you didn't go to school for this and you just, so, I mean it just a lot involved, I, I'm sure in, in ma like finding the right people and making a 

[00:22:33] John McAllister: movie. So it wasn't, it wasn't at that brainstorming session that I had the idea for the movie. But it was at that brainstorming session. I didn't have another job lined up.

[00:22:43] I just knew that I wanted to stop, I needed to stop doing what I was doing. And so I thought I could be involved in helping introduce Bridge to more young people. And then I came home and two of my friends were making a movie about a, a scripted film. And we, they took me out to dinner and they, one of 'em said, I think we're, you're the only person we know that plays bridge.

[00:23:08] And so I told him about some of the statistics from this brainstorming session, and he said, that sounds like a documentary movie. And then that was, that was where that, that came from. And so you 

[00:23:20] Greg Hinze: just began filming, was it? Uh, just pretty much all, all at one. Uh, Youth World Championships, right? Uh, most of it.

[00:23:29] Or is there There was a lot of, 

[00:23:31] John McAllister: uh, outside, so I had, I had met Adam Kaplan through Greg at the, uh, at the N A B C, the spring 1, 20 12. And he really, I was really impressed with, in spite of him being 20 years younger than Greg, Greg's my age, and Adam was 16 at the time, and. That the way he was making fun of Greg, talking about how Greg thought about these bridge deals that we were playing, that we were, you know, talking about after the round.

[00:23:59] And I knew about Adam from Bridge winners and so he was already like kind of a star to me when I first met him. I'm like, oh, that's Adam Kaplan. And so he became the focal point of the film and he was, he was kind of the leader of a group that included the gross X. And the Jeng brothers and his partner Zach Brisco of like an under 21 team playing the junior world championships that took place in, in August of, uh, of 2012.

[00:24:30] So yeah, that's the focal point of the film. Where are these, uh, world World Championships? It was in, uh, in Ta song China, which is about two hours from Shanghai. And this is a, like a, 

[00:24:43] Greg Hinze: a really long tournament, right? With a big round robin phase and everything similar to like 

[00:24:47] John McAllister: the B removal. Yeah, there was, uh, I think there was 17 teams in their, in their division, and you play all 16 other teams and then you have, uh, full day knockout matches.

[00:24:59] And the finals actually a day and a half. So it was 12 days, 12 days of filming that we were 12 days of play. So you 

[00:25:07] Greg Hinze: took a lot of this footage and you, you made it, made a movie of it. And, uh, you're trying to, uh, attract some young people. That's, uh, that's really nice. So, uh, the Gross Act also in this, uh, movie, they've done really phenomenal since then as well.

[00:25:22] So they've, uh, really had quite a lot of success together and, and even, uh, part and, uh, particularly Zach Groza, uh, just recently cover the Bulletin for winning a Player of the Year. Um, so what. Think about how that is gonna impact the movie. You know, like cuz Zach is in this movie and then now here he is proving himself again later.

[00:25:45] You know? I mean, what do you think? 

[00:25:47] John McAllister: What are your thoughts on that? So the movie's now freely available on pbs.org. If you search for Double Dummy, it'll come up. You can watch it anywhere in the world. It's not geo blocked, obviously, as a filmmaker to have for the, the kids team in the tournament itself.

[00:26:06] The way that went down was really great for us. I don't wanna spoil it for anybody. We can't. We can't, don't worry. I'm not, I'm not gonna spoil it. But it was really a great event from the kid standpoint. And then when I originally Adam Kaplan was like, Zach has really turned into what I hoped Adam Kaplan would, would become.

[00:26:26] I didn't even know Zach before we got to China and. I was hoping that Adam Kaplan would be the next Jeff Max Troth. Really? And Zach has really, I mean, you know, as you said, like he's player of the year. Like, you know, that's, I mean, 

[00:26:45] Greg Hinze: it's such a young age. I mean, uh, just really such a great 

[00:26:48] John McAllister: accomplishment.

[00:26:48] Yeah. But it's hard. Like it, one of the things about this film is we send an email out to everybody that is on like a board, like a unit board. Or a district board or that owns a club, or is it a member of the A P T A and I probably got like 20 emails back from, you know, maybe, I don't know how, I don't even know how many emails that was that we sent out.

[00:27:13] So if like getting people to actually pay attention to the film is challenging and I'm really grateful that it's on P B s. So it's airing on specific P B S stations. And you can find that on our website, doubled dummy movie.com, but it's also freely available. I'm just glad that it's like that we have this p b s distribution arm cuz, you know, having spent 11 years working on this project, I just want people to see it.

[00:27:42] I want, and it, it, it's beyond me at this point. And hopefully it'll be me. It'll, there'll be a meaningful impact. You know, like, uh, there was a post on bridge winners today by somebody talking about the Nebraska airtime. It's, it's, but it's been frustrating, like doing this and not always feeling like people are taking, you know, taking the reigns like, of the film.

[00:28:08] So, uh, 

[00:28:10] Greg Hinze: I remember many years I would always come up to you go like, how's the movie going? How's the movie going, , how's the movie going like year after year? And then, uh, to finally he, and then to finally get to, I saw, uh, you put, you did, uh, some kind of thing at a Nationals, I think where we aired it in.

[00:28:26] There was a group of people, I mean, I don't know, maybe 50 to a hundred people, something 

[00:28:30] John McAllister: in Toronto that was a longer version of the, this is actually a shorter version than if you ask my mother, she would say it's much better, which I agree with a 

[00:28:38] Greg Hinze: shorter version's better. Okay. I hadn't seen the new, I, I just saw the one, uh, at the, at the time, uh, where you put it.

[00:28:44] Uh, yeah. Okay. Toronto Nationals, I don't remember. So 11 years in the process. And, uh, podcast. Podcast now. So sometime, and now you're like, a movie wasn't, I'm going to also make a podcast. And is it, is it, is it the same type of a deal trying to draw a bridge into, to the world? Expand a bridge, or what, what's the reason for the, so the 

[00:29:06] John McAllister: original reason, rationale for the podcast was to spread the word about the movie, and then it just became fun.

[00:29:13] Like I, I enjoy the opportunity to have conversations like this. It's fun, it's challenging. It's a great way to share my passion for bridge. One consistent piece of feedback I've gotten though is from non-player that listen to the podcast is they don't really know what we're talking about. Like it's too high level bridge.

[00:29:33] There's too many specific 

[00:29:34] Greg Hinze: names of people and Yes. Like things that, uh, we take for granted. Like we talk about a Vanderbilt Yes. Or whatever, and they're like, what's the Vanderbilt? Yes. You know, something like that. 

[00:29:43] John McAllister: Yeah. I underst. And I've tried at points to, to be more inclusive and it's challenging. Like it's, it's definitely challenging and I don't necessarily wanna water it down.

[00:29:57] Like, uh, I enjoy the high level of it and we definitely have our fans, you know, like, I'm gonna give a shout out to, uh, one of your partners, Josh Dunn's dad, cliff. Is a regular listener. Hope you don't fall off your mountain bike when you hear this reference. Uh, we actually started doing a segment cuz Josh told me that Cliff listens to all the shows and then he, if Josh has ever mentioned, he'll send him a, a like thing from the transcript.

[00:30:26] And so we started doing a Cliff Don, where somebody had the Cliff don segment where somebody would tell a story about Josh. So my story about Josh, not that you asked. Was at my first nationals playing in the Vanderbilt for the first time, cuz Gavin suggested it. We, it was a three-way and we lost in the, uh, afternoon.

[00:30:49] So we were playing Josh Dunn's team in the evening and it was, I think Kit Wooey was on the team. Perhaps. I don't remember who Josh was playing with. I think Josh was playing with Roger Lee. And I remember thinking after the second segment that we won and they beat us by like 40 in that segment.

[00:31:25] Greg Hinze: So anyway, uh, yeah. So you had a lot of, you ended up having a lot of, uh, you know, great people on, uh, on your, your podcast, uh, you know, great players, uh, like, you know, or even early on you had like Chef Maroth and some. Who are your, some of your favorite, uh, episodes? Do you have standout episodes where it's just like, you know, wow, this is like, you know, bridge on a, on another level.

[00:31:48] Like, I just getting to know somebody this like, is 

[00:31:50] John McAllister: just like, I think the three people that come to mind are Gavin because it was the first one and I've been wanting to do the podcast for a long time, probably three years. And so when I actually recorded the conversation, I thought, wow, this is, you know, it was just cool to actually finally do it.

[00:32:07] And he tells a great story about ducking with King in one offside, and I mean, that was just why I wanted to do it. And then Hammond, you know, probably the most recognizable bridge name and then troth because he just was great. Like he told great stories and. You know, Jeff has really, uh, helped me become a, like, get more out of my bridge ability by challenging me to, to be a better player.

[00:32:41] And, uh, so Jeff is always a very, uh, 

[00:32:47] Greg Hinze: like fierce competitor. I mean, he is like, yes, I mean, but he's always so friendly and helpful away from the game as well, you know, but. He is, uh, always at the table. It's like nothing. He doesn't miss anything. He is never phased. It's just like, how, how does this guy ever, never do anything wrong?

[00:33:03] John McAllister: he was my partner for a regional last year in Hilton Head and at Fir it went from like being elated that I'm playing with Jeff Maxy. And so frustrated with him cuz he was frustrated with me and it took me a while. I was driving back to Virginia after the second day we played together, and I was listening to these podcasts and I thought, man, this, you know, eventually it got through to me that the reason that he was upset with me is I wasn't getting the best outta myself.

[00:33:32] And that led me to have my best year of bridge ever last year, which, uh, yeah, was a really, really good 

[00:33:38] Greg Hinze: year. Capping it off. still, you still see you glowing, . Yeah. Uh, okay. Well, uh, some of your other favorite bridge 

[00:33:48] John McAllister: memories. Well, I'll tell a story. So, I played my first World championships in Sonya in 2014, and the way that I ended up doing that was Christina Lund Madson had emailed me and she said that her and Dennis Bilda, who's one of the, you know, great players, great young players, uh, in the world, they were looking for a partners for the mixed teams.

[00:34:14] and that sounded like fun. I really liked Christina. I didn't know much about her, her playing, uh, but I knew Dennis was a really like a rising star, and so I needed to have a female partner. I said, I don't have a female partner, and she suggested mre, uh, MRE Campanile who's, who's also been a guest on the show.

[00:34:37] And I remember when, when mcg. So I went up and met her in New York City. We had lunch on her birthday and we hit it off and we're like, let's do this. And, and then I remember when we talked on the phone or we tried to talk on the phone for the first time. Riss originally from, uh, well she immigrated Israel, but she's originally from Romania.

[00:34:56] And I remember I couldn't understand her and I was like, I don't think this is gonna work. . So, uh, are you speaking English? Miri introduced me to a lot of her friends. . I think just, that's one of the things about Bridge is like, it's, it's kind of a strange dynamic because we're playing against the other people.

[00:35:19] So there are more often than not, you know, people are your opponent, but at the same time there's a lot of, there's a lot of kinship and, you know, spirit and, uh, You know, like for example, you congratulating me in, in Phoenix for winning the national, for winning the event. Like so many people were so excited for, for me.

[00:35:41] And, uh, 

[00:35:43] Greg Hinze: yeah, it, it, it's nice. I mean, uh, yeah, it's a lot of camaraderie, you know, it's, it's bitter competition at the table, but then away from it at the parties at night or whatever afterwards, you know, the drinking at the bars and going over the hands and so, Speaking of hands that you're like most 

[00:36:03] John McAllister: nightmare hand ever.

[00:36:04] Uh, well, there was a hand at the, I played in the mixed world championships this year with, uh, Olivia Sheen as my partner and we were playing in the Paris. We didn't make it to the, uh, heads up matches for teams when we're playing in the pairs. And I had like, uh, a six of diamonds. Queen 10, double 10 of clubs, Jack, fourth of hearts.

[00:36:33] So I had ace, queen jack, six of diamonds, queen 10, double 10 jack, fourth of hearts. So they opened a, I was fourth and they opened a Polish club on my right and every, nobody's vulnerable. So I bid three diamonds and it goes, What happened? I forget what happened, but they got to seven eventually, lefty did six hearts.

[00:37:00] So Polish Club, you don't get, it's like a strong club in that you don't reveal your suit at first, or the fact that you, so I, I didn't have Jack fourth of hearts. I had, I had like 10, I think I had ten fourth of Harvey anyway now. So now the guy bids five hearts, then lefty bids six hearts, and then they bid seven.

[00:37:22] and I'm kind of rooting for them to bid Seven Hearts . So I lead the ace of diamonds cuz I'm thinking, you know, there's no way that they're bidding this grand slam with the king of diamonds. You know, they're not valuing that. But lo and behold, lefty had King Fourth of Diamonds, . So now declare has a chance to make it.

[00:37:44] And I'm like, shit. I was rooting for that and now I'm get about to get burned. So Dummy had Ace start of clubs and declare had King Jack nine fourth, and if they, so I'm like, am I gonna play the Queen of Clubs on the first round of clubs? So he drew Trumps and now he plays. I think I had three Trumps. I don't know I'm telling the story terribly, but he, on the first round of clubs, he plays club to the Ace and I played the Queen

[00:38:18] And now 

[00:38:20] Greg Hinze: did he have like nine of 'em and 

[00:38:21] John McAllister: now he played No, no. It actually worked. He played, he played back and he thought, and he thought, now I played the nine and I won the 10. I was like, yeah. So it went from being a nightmare to. It was all, both your nightmare and your 

[00:38:36] Greg Hinze: first favorite hand All. Yeah.

[00:38:39] John McAllister: Yeah. Nightmare hands. I mean so many nightmare hands. I remember a hand mire in the world championships. We were on the verge of qualifying for the finals of the world pairs in 2014. My first world championship, the World Bridge Series, and there was a hand where I had like, uh, king in one sp. and we had a two over one auction and then she bid two.

[00:39:03] No. And now I just bid three. No, cuz you know, that was just the right thing to do. And they lead a spade through my king and it goes queen. And then the, and then my lefty plays the ACEs spades and mires. Jack Doubleton comes. Now they got the whole space suit and I'm like, God damn it nigger, why are you hogging the hand?

[00:39:30] Oh, . 

[00:39:31] Greg Hinze: That's funny. Funny. So, uh, most important bridge convention if 

[00:39:37] John McAllister: you can only have one. Oh, wow. Probably negative double. I think. Uh, I played in London, used to talk about the bridge in the Menagerie series. I played rubber bridge for the first time over there and I felt like I was a character. I felt like I was in that.

[00:39:52] when I was play. Which one were you? Well, I wasn't nec, I just felt like I, I didn't have a character myself, but I just felt like I was like playing with the characters in that book. And we, they don't let you play negative doubles there. They don't let you play. Don't 

[00:40:07] Greg Hinze: they all play like usually the same?

[00:40:08] Everybody plays the same thing 

[00:40:09] John McAllister: like that. They don't play, they don't. You play Roman keycard. You can only, you can't find out about the King of Trump or the queen of Queen of Trump. Bobby, uh, Wolf was 

[00:40:20] Greg Hinze: a big, uh, advocator of, uh, not playing key card. He wouldn't mind being on, uh, in a slam on the finesse of the King of Trump.

[00:40:28] So he would always know, although you may know you're off a key card, he would know that it was the king cuz he would know about the number of ACEs cuz he didn't count the king as a key card, counted that later in the Kings or whatever. So, so he would know that he would be on a finesse and he wouldn't mind.

[00:40:46] Is it better than like, being there and like, oh, am I off the Ace ? It's not even on the Finesse, it's off the Ace. You lose the Ace . 

[00:40:54] John McAllister: Is he someone that's been a mentor to you? Like I know he is from Texas. I think we got to play with Bobby one 

[00:40:59] Greg Hinze: time and uh, I just remember that was like we, we, we wrote down like four things on the commissioner.

[00:41:04] We had those, uh, the white com, the old fashioned white convention card. I think we wrote down like four things, like 15, 17 real big with transfer or something, and. We wrote down, you know, ACE asking, it was like not, it was not . We, and we wrote down carding or something. And, uh, so we, we played, uh, we played that one time.

[00:41:24] And, uh, I played as a teammate of his, uh, a few times. He had some, uh, of his regular older partners, uh, that he played with some, some long ago. And, and I played against him many times from, uh, the area that I was playing in. Uh, I think he eventually moved to Vegas and, uh, I don't 

[00:41:43] John McAllister: dunno what's happening. I don't even know.

[00:41:44] I, I'm sure I've played against him, but not, uh, I only have a couple more questions by the way. I just, who, I wanna say that Greg sent me a full list of questions, including like, the best hand. I, I don't know if the best hand was in there, but I wanted to be spontaneous. It would've been something like the best hand would've been good to think, or worst hand would've been good to think.

[00:42:05] Before, uh, but you did send me like a full list. Yeah, that one. 

[00:42:08] Greg Hinze: I, I, I'm not even sure I included that. I did throw, I, I did have some questions that it weren't on your list that I asked you. So anyway, like this one who's faster, you or Justin Law, 

[00:42:21] John McAllister: were you at that tournament? No, but I heard about it. So you're referring to at the Williamsburg Regional some years ago.

[00:42:31] We had a, a race in the hotel conference area and it was probably a 50 yard dash and Justin smoked me . Sad but true. 

[00:42:46] Greg Hinze: And question from my wife. You like pineapple on your 

[00:42:51] John McAllister: pizza? I used to like a Hawaiian pizza. I used to, that used to be on my order, but, uh, it's been a while. Why? Why is your wife asking? I don't know.

[00:43:02] She 

[00:43:02] Greg Hinze: knew I was gonna be doing this interview and, uh, she just thought, uh, that was a, some silly question. Thought I would ask. 

[00:43:11] John McAllister: You can cut back out , cut out the pineapple pizza, . You got it. 

[00:43:18] Greg Hinze: Anyway, I don't, I don't have anything else. Okay. John, I going through my list of questions. 

[00:43:25] John McAllister: How, what do you, what is your setup there?

[00:43:27] Do you have like a sheet of paper with all the questions on 'em? Do you have 'em like, uh, yeah, I, 

[00:43:32] Greg Hinze: I, I'm looking at my little questions here. Yeah. And then some of 'em, you know, I had to skip over cuz you kind of covered them already. You know, they were gonna be questions, but That's okay. I mean, that's great.

[00:43:42] You know, it's great. I don't have to ask questions. You just knew what I was gonna ask you. Well. As if you knew, like, so somebody may have fed you the questions. 

[00:43:50] John McAllister: No, he did, but I mean, I really appreciate it. When I saw that list of questions, I wasn't sure if you were like, how committed you were to it and if, what if it was more like me saying, oh, you know, you offered to do this, but maybe, anyway, when I got that list of questions from you, I was really, it really touched me like that you were.

[00:44:08] You were thinking about it so much. Well, I'm glad. 

[00:44:10] Greg Hinze: I mean, this went, I, I was a little nervous about how this may go cuz it's, you know, not so easy to just, to be, you know, talking and you're, you're used to it. I'm, I'm not, I'm not so used to it. . 

[00:44:21] John McAllister: It's funny how I'm used to it. It's funny how it's something that is so natural just to do.

[00:44:28] Like me and you, for me and you to talk, but then when it becomes a Yeah, that's what made it 

[00:44:33] Greg Hinze: easy for me. Cuz I mean, you know, we're looking at each other on the camera or whatever, so we can see each other and it's just like, to me, it's not like really doing an interview at all. I mean, you know, it's more like just talking to a friend, you know, just like, tell me more about you tell me something.

[00:44:47] John McAllister: Didn't know. Mm-hmm. , what was the most surprising? Like, what was the depth? What was the depth? Can you. Is there a way for you to explain the depths of the research that you did or ? Like what the depths, what do you think was like the most down a rabbit hole you went? I didn't 

[00:45:06] Greg Hinze: go that far, really. I was like, uh, you know, I, I, I, I just, yeah.

[00:45:11] I found your police profiles and your mugshot. That, that was, that was the most surprising to me was when I found your mug. 

[00:45:21] John McAllister: I have never been arrested, by the way, for all my loyal listeners out there. I, I have not. Well, they should take that off 

[00:45:28] Greg Hinze: the internet 

[00:45:28] John McAllister: then, . Um, well, thank you. No, I, 

[00:45:32] Greg Hinze: I, I, I, seriously, I, I didn't, I didn't do that much research.

[00:45:35] Um, and you know, I mean, just, I, I, I know a lot about you already, , you're a great guy and, and a lot of people, a lot of people know a lot about you. 

[00:45:46] John McAllister: Well, it's, it is, it is. I'm flattered and I really appreciate it and, uh, thank you so much. Oh, you're 

[00:45:52] Greg Hinze: quite welcome. And, uh, yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me once more.

[00:45:57] I really enjoyed it. We'll see you again on the circuit. 

[00:46:00] John McAllister: Are you playing any tournaments next nationals? I, so here's your, here's your team. The next national. I've got some possibilities out there, but nothing is confirmed. Yeah. Okay, well, the intrigue, we'll see you there in New Orleans. We're going though, for sure, right?

[00:46:15] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I'm definitely playing. You playing with Vinnie or, I don't think so. You don't know? They, nothing's 

[00:46:21] Greg Hinze: confirmed. Okay. 

[00:46:24] John McAllister: All right, man. I'll see you in New Orleans. I'm, I'm actually playing in the North American Paris. Are you gonna be there for that? No. No. Have you won that 

[00:46:33] Greg Hinze: Platinum Pierce?

[00:46:34] No. I've, I've, I. I think I only entered one time to the national level. We made it and we got knocked out first day or something. What 

[00:46:45] John McAllister: was your first national win? Yeah. I've never done well in that event. 

[00:46:48] Greg Hinze: My first national win was in New Orleans where we're going now, and in 2004 we won the North American Swiss, but that was in the fall of 2004.

[00:47:00] This is spring of 

[00:47:01] John McAllister: 2020, whatever. Had you been close before that? 

[00:47:06] Greg Hinze: I was fourth in the LMS once, uh, before that, the three day LM pair, like basically lost in the last round. Mm-hmm. , , it was pretty 

[00:47:17] John McAllister: close. Who is your partner? 

[00:47:20] Greg Hinze: Uh, guy with, uh, I don't play with him, haven't play with him long time, but Nagi came out from, uh, he's from Texas also.

[00:47:28] He's one of my original players that I used to play with learning back in the day. Played a lot of bridge with. But not, not so much. In the last 15 

[00:47:36] John McAllister: years, if you could, if you could teach bridge to one person on the planet, who would it be to teach to one person on the planet? You got to choose your bridge student.

[00:47:47] Who would it be? 

[00:47:49] Greg Hinze: Yeah, it would be like he's my, yeah, so like somebody famous, like, uh, I don't know, maybe, uh, yeah, I don't know. That's too tough of a question. Something like famous actor 

[00:47:58] John McAllister: or something. That would be pretty cool. All right, well you gotta gimme an answer in New Orleans. Okay, I'll give you an answer.

[00:48:03] New Orleans, 

[00:48:03] Greg Hinze: um, he put me on the spot 

[00:48:05] John McAllister: now. All right, man. Thanks.

Resources

Connect with John

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/johnmca/ 

Website - thesettingtrick.com/ 

Book by John Carruthers

Bridge with Another Perfect Partner – 

goodreads.com/book/show/60495965-bridge-with-another-perfect-partner 

Book by S.J. Simon

Why You Lose at Bridge – 

goodreads.com/en/book/show/1141603 

Movie - Double Dummy

imdb.com/title/tt3531224/ 

doubledummymovie.com/ 

Today I have an abbreviated conversation with my good friend Joe Grew, who is one of the best bridge players in the world. This is my first in-person conversation and it took place at Congressional Country Club in September.  It got cut short because, frankly we had to get on the tee!

The Rimstedt family of Sweden is among the strongest bridge-playing families of all-time. Twins Mikael and Ola are the youngest players ever to win the World Pairs, and their sister Cecilia won the 2019 Venice Cup, sadly with their sister Sandra no longer on the team after having emigrated to the US. Today we have the pleasure of speaking to Mikael and Ola. In addition to being my friends and I've even been lucky enough to have them on my team on occasion.

Watch the video version here: https://john-mcallister-s52b.squarespace.com/episode-44-ola-and-mikael-rimstedt

Episode Highlights:

7:35- Mikael and Ola almost didn't play in the world pairs they ended up winning

13:17- How Mikael got angry at Ola on a board where their side got a complete top late in the finals of the World Pairs

18:02- Rim job on Vugraph

20:12- Making the Swedish Open team

34:42- Rimstedt brothers better than the Grossack brothers???

38:48- Why they split and came back together

46:12- Their dad previously played for Sweden

1:04:28- How Ola and Mikael got into bridge

1:12:08- Dating status

In June of 2019, I asked now 17 year old Michael Xu to help me prepare for my interview with his bridge mentor/hero, Michael Rosenberg. This sparked his progression from The Setting Trick helper, to The Setting Trick intern, and finally to The Setting Trick guest.

One year after I first reached out, Michael co founded the Youth Bridge Association, a nonprofit organization based on the idea of youth teaching youth bridge. As co president, Michael has helped host multiple classes as well as a tournament that drew 140 juniors! 

Michael has generously agreed to share the below letter, which upon reading, Kevin Rosenberg, Michael Rosenberg's son said, "it sounds like you're trying to date my dad!"

Fabled "dating" email

Dear Michael,

A few months ago, when asked by my college counselor who would be the best person to write a letter of recommendation, the first and only person that came to mind was you. Before bridge, before SiVY, before you, I never thought I would come to identify so strongly with a community. If you asked me back then whether I believe that I will have such a robust relationship with a non-family member, I would have scoffed at that idea. Yet, over the span of 4 years, I have developed a truly extraordinary connection with you. From our first encounter in Toronto, to the first bombardment of emails, to the first in-real-life post mortem (@Atlanta), to the first dinner together (@Dennys), to the first time playing against you, to the first time hearing a "well-played" from your lips, and finally to the latest email, you have seen my growth from a completely clueless youngling to a now still slightly clueless and learning adolescent who knows some things.

Michael, you are the only one. You saw me at the Trials, going past midnight to review boards. You saw me at WuJiang, China, where even at the World Youth Team Championships, I was more preoccupied with learning than sleeping/eating. You saw me flood your inbox with emails, and when you think you answered them all, I 'rewarded' you with countless follow ups and more new emails. In short, you saw my relentless pursuit to learn, my unprecedented level of insanity, my unrestrained intellectual vitality. Throughout my journey, you were my ultimate mentor, answering my plethora of questions, elucidating mysteries, and even providing me with life advice. 

Given our lengthy, special history, I feel that you are unique in your capability to vouch for me. Genuine intellectual curiosity is highly coveted by colleges, and I think you are most suited to testify about that on my behalf. Just as you had strongly advocated for me back in 2018 for the U16 team, I hope you will be able to advocate for me for college.

Would you be willing to write me a strong and unique letter of recommendation for my college application? If you have any follow up questions or need any further information, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Sincerely,

Michael

Episode highlights:

1:50- Is YBA for college application resume stacking???

3:20- How the YBA came to be

4:40- YBA class details

14:00- YBA is about advanced youth players paying it forward and giving back to the community

19:15- Michael Xu = Michael 1(?)

23:10- How Michael came to partner Finn Kolesnik

25:50- The Setting Trick internship = ultimate girls attractor

30:35- Michael's work with Professor Samantha Punch and BAMSA research project

33:10- Michael Rosenberg gets bombarded by Michael Xu with thousands of emails full of questions 

36:50- MEAT and Kevin Test

39:30- Michael's attempt at dating Michael Rosenberg

46:20- How Michael learned bridge through SiVY

50:15- How listeners can help out the YBA

54:45- Michael is getting beat in the Life Master race by the younger SiVY generation

The third and possibly final episode of the Youngest Life Master series has touched down! In this episode, we caught up with four former youngest Life Masters: Joel Wooldrige, brothers Sam and Dan Hirschman, and Steven Cochran. Joel is now a world-class expert and is one of the world's best players. Sam and Dan continue to celebrate their former record with the annual "The Party". Steven was an absolutely wild teenager; he once woke up in the ocean while traveling across the country to play bridge, without his parents. At the age of 14. It really amazes me how different are the paths that people take!

Episode Highlights:

2:55- 11 year old Joel Wooldrige

3:55- How Joel learned to play bridge

5:25- How Sam Hirschman's father played a role in getting his son's record beaten

8:55- Joel was in the Guinness Book of World Records!

11:15- The real reason why Dan had to take back the YLM record for the Hirschman family

18:15- Sam and Dan Hirschman

20:30- Father Hirschman = Most Valuable Motivator

26:25- Sam was featured in Sports Illustrated magazine!

28:10- Bridge lost Dan to Magic: the Gathering

28:49- Dan was featured on the Leno show, the People Magazine, and NYT

32:19- The last times Sam and Dan can flex their former record

34:05- The annual "Dan Hirschman Youngest Life Master KO Teams" where 25 teams onced showed up to play at the Hirschman house

40:35- How Sam ended up on Sports Illustrated magazine

44:30- The decline of bridge's cultural relevance

46:50- Meet Steven Cochran

49:25- Steven learned bridge at NASA

52:35- Steven taught his entire college fraternity to play bridge

- 14 year old Steven spent a whole summer traveling US and Canada to play bridge

59:48- Steven excels at declaring

1:01:35- Unfortunately, Steven couldn't measure up for the attractive girl

1:02:35- Waking up in the ocean

1:07:40- Steven once was a professional soccer player

1:09:09- No fanfare for Steven becoming part of the first two-person ACBL Kings and Queens of Bridge

1:12:50- Played against a typical nobody: Omar Sharif

Didn't get enough of Ronnie? He's back! Ron Smith returns to the show, bringing with him more hilarious stories.

Episode Highlights:

6:05- Ron's opinion on Real Bridge

12:30- When your teammates go for minus 4600 in 4Cxx down 8 so you lose 24 IMPS, but you still win the match

15:35- Ron learns from his teacher who went minus 5800.Twice

16:05- Story of the only person to win the Vanderbilt while also losing two matches in the same tournament

18:30- Never give up during a match

25:05- Bobby Levin is so good looking, his partner needs to play with his head down lest he loses his focus

28:40- More hilarious Baby Levin stories

34:40- Ron believes in the great joys of having the social connections through playing bridge

38:10- Speculations on the future of bridge—will things ever be the same again?

40:15- Mahaffrey stories

44:35- Peter Weichsel's most embarrassing moment

47:15- Reese stories

53:05- Ron's worst three hands

59:48- Leo Lasota: the world's greatest online player

1:03:05- Oren Kriegel is an upcoming super star

1:06:35- "Here comes the damn diamonds again" story

In August of 2012, Tom Carmichael and I spent 12 days together in Taicang, China. Tom as the non-playing captain (NPC) of the USA1 Under 21 team, and me as the executive producer of a documentary film with the working title Lost in the Shuffle. We decided to focus on Tom's team owing to the appeal of the players on it and their chance to win the first ever medal for the US in the Youngsters (Under 21) Series. This conversation is eight years in the making.

As an outside documenter, it's fascinating to hear Tom talk about the dynamics between his fellow NPC's and how they discussed and learned about which teams and players were good. Tom earned silver medals as both a player and NPC in junior bridge and has represented the US in The World Mind Sport Games.

For all of the junior bridge players out there, Tom and Joel Wooldridge's partnership started when they met at the junior reception at a Summer NABC. You never know where you might find your world class partner!

Episode highlights:

1:35- How Tom got into bridge

3:55- Parents met at a bridge club

12:15- How Tom met Joel Wooldridge

14:20 - System development with Joel Wooldridge by mail. Joel became ACBL youngest Life Master in 1990 at the age of 11 years 4 months and 13 days.

18:20- Bridge spans across generations

21:30- Tom believes it is awesome how bridge allows you to compete even against the world best

25:40- Tom's interesting relationships with ACBL Youngest Life Masters

26:50- Atlanta Junior Bridge, Atlanta Super Sectional hosted first ever Youth NABC in 2010

29:20- Tom's memories of the 2012 World Youth Team Championships (the event covered by Double Dummy)

40:15- The competitive pressure and emotions of the game

47:10- Serious Pie Neapolitan pizza in downtown Seattle

48:05- Tom's wife Jenni won the 2016 Reno NABC Mixed Pairs with Greg Humphreys.

50:05- Tom's system with Joel Wooldridge

57:15- Tom's attitude towards Joel's success in bridge

1:00:40- Shireen Mohandes' site http://www.barbu.co.uk/barbu.htm

1:06:45- Tom's history with Atlanta Junior Bridge

1:10:00- Tom's story of kibitzing his team as NPC and how he handles the non-bridge aspects of NPCing

1:20:00- Celebration of Justin Lall's Life

1:25:30- You need to be able to move on from losses

1:31:00- Deal on which Tom won the IMP Pairs + other crazy hands

In this episode, John sits down with Dennis Bilde, one of Denmark's top bridge talents and a player with a reputation for being both formidable at the table and fun to be around. Dennis shares stories of missing flights, winning world championships, and his early card-playing days before discovering bridge. The conversation dives into partnership dynamics, life with two young kids, and how Danish coffee might be the bridge world's best-kept secret. From his time on the Lavazza team to his upcoming appearance at the Bermuda Bowl on home soil, Dennis reflects on what it means to grow, both as a player and a person.

🏆 Dennis won the 2008 Junior World Championship—after failing to qualify for the under-21 trials

🍷 Known for being a slow drinker, he's still a favorite drinking buddy of Zia's

🎲 He and Zia played 5NT in each of their first two tournaments together

🇩🇰 He'll represent Denmark at the 2025 Bermuda Bowl, alongside his longtime partner Martin Schaltz

🧸 Father of two, Dennis talks candidly about balancing bridge with family life

🧠 On his first try at Rubber Bridge in New York, he walked away with $3,500 after reluctantly agreeing to play $1 per point

☕️ What's a Danish coffee? Let's just say you might need a solo cup…

🎄 His time with the Lavazza team included Christmas dinners at Maria Teresa Lavazza's home

🎧 More Stories Like This – Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

📱 Follow @thesettingtrick – Stay connected on Instagram and for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

Andrew Robson describes Dennis as the best player in Denmark

Not all professional bridge players are world class. I will comfortably posit that Chris Willenken is. Having watched a director ask Chris about a bidding problem at an NABC I've been dumbfounded about how much Chris knows with just a few words introduction. Demand for playing lessons with him has skyrocketed during Covid as bridge players seek to improve their games online.

I love the role Chris' mother played in helping him find this lifelong pursuit. Find out how she and bridge communities in both the Poconos and New York City's initial nurturing helped turn Chris into a top American expert.

Episode highlights

2:45- How Chris started playing bridge through his mother

9:05- The Collegiate School and Manhattan Bridge Club

13:40- Chris' relationship with one of his first partners

16:00- Chris' quotation on Ernest Hemingway to describe how he started his bridge professional career

20:05- Chris' heartbreaking story about losing the Blue Ribbons Pair on the last board

25:20- Chris' story of a funny hand played with Roy Welland

30:20- Chris' story of making it to the semifinals of the Rosenblum with Michael Rosenberg,  Chris's hall of fame bridge partner for five year

38:20- Chris' mindset on all his incredibly close calls in winning major tournaments

41:30- Chris' answer to when he felt he could be considered a great bridge player

47:10- Chris' epic history with parliamentary debate at Williams College

Amanda Amert, Chris's debate partner at Williams.

51:45- Chris' style of bride with his current partner, Jan Jansma

57:15- How Chris views the use of deception in bridge

1:04:50- How Chris decides with his partner their bidding system

1:07:10- Chris' family and quarantine time

1:15:50- Is Chris better than Kalita???

1:18:45- Youth Bridge Association

Jacob Freeman and Finn Kolesnik are 20 and 16 years old respectively. They first proposed the idea of appearing on The Setting Trick, seemingly as a lark, at the 2019 Fall North American Bridge Championships. As the podcast's founder and host, I was delighted that it mattered to them, and amused by being asked during a chance run in on a street corner!

Find out the amazing story about how these two teenagers put together the "amateur" F Kolesnik team, calling on four hall of famers each of whom are more than twice their age.

These two up-and-coming bridge players who have already found much success in the game. Even though they are both still teenagers, they made waves in the bridge world when they recently tied for first place in the inaugural NAOBC Knockout. 

I got the chance to chat with them about both of their backgrounds and how they got into playing bridge. The two young men tell the story of how they became a team. I ask them about their thoughts on the future of Bridge and about their short-term and long-term goals.

After losing the first 30 minutes of our first recording session, Jacob and Finn were generous enough to chat with me for a second time. In this episode, I have put together both interviews so you as a listener can gain all the insight! 

Thanks for listening, and if you like what you hear, give us a review on iTunes. 

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Show Notes:

Bridgewinners thread on Andrew Robson and David Gold bidding to 7 diamonds from 2017 Transnational Teams Playoff

Episode Highlights:

2:25 - How the Kolesnik Team came together

15:55 - Finn's and Jacob's favorite tournament

21:55 - Bob Hamman is a hilarious man

25:00 - Finn's college and future plans

27:50 - Jacob's future plans

34:25 - Finn and Jacob discusses co-championing in the NAOBC KO

42:30 - How Jacob and Finn met

46:05 - What it was like after realizing they tied for first and the celebration afterwards

50:25 - Hamman said sorry when Finn placed fourth in the Life Master Pairs

52:50 - How Finn and Jacob became so good at bridge

56:40 - Finn's partnership with Michael Xu

1:00:10 - How Finn and Jacob work on their partnership

1:01:50 - How they decided to play together in the NAOBC

1:09:10 - Why John made Double Dummy and started this podcast!

1:14:55 - Funny story about Finn's dad superstitious occurrences 

1:15:40 - Finn and Jacob's professional bridge scene

1:20:45 - Finn and Jacob's youth international bridge plans

Jack Zhao is a two time world champion in pairs and one of the funniest men in the bridge world. While this is an audio program, when Jack laughs wholeheartedly, it looks like his face is going to explode. I've had the pleasure of partnering Jack for a week long regional tournament and visited him in his home city of Tianjin, China.

In this conversation we discuss Jack's improbable journey to living in America, learning bridge as a teenager and the importance of Jack being welcomed into the bridge scene in Rotterdam. In spite of his team missing the first six boards of the semifinal, Jack won the 2017 Reisinger. In 2006, he won the Vanderbilt as the 44th seed, and the World Pairs, partnering Fu Zhong in both events. He won the World Mixed Pairs in 2014 with Kerri Sanborn.

Jack's ultimate bridge goal is to win a major world team championship, preferably the Bermuda Bowl. In spite of having been asked, he is not yet eligible for senior events.

Highlights from Episode:

1:25- The Edge - "It was like someone lit the touch paper on this bomb. I had never seen anything like it. It was like a switch went on." From It Might Get Loud when he saw the Jam on Top of the Pops.

2:30- Introduced to bridge by a casual player

11:50- 50% slams

14:12- Bridge in Rotterdam

15:25- The importance of bridge books

• Kelsey

16:46- Bridge bible, Better Bridge with Bergen

• Carried it everywhere with him

19:18- Most helpful was Terrence Reese over my shoulder

23:49- Playing with 1966 World Pairs champion Hans Kreijhns

• One club four cards, one diamond four cards, one heart four cards
• Underled ace of diamonds
• • Only lead to beat the contract

29:40- Jack's lifetime hero, Barry Westra, always curious about what Jack was thinking

36:35- Exams at Erasmus University

39:28- Playing with Fu

43:14- 2nd in Transnational teams

44:25- "Easy" last day of Bermuda Bowl Round Robin

47:19- Dream for all bridge players

52:11- Bridge does not require a lot of calculations

53:54- Reaction when he underled ace of diamonds

• He can still see his p's face

56:16- Top players in Netherlands were open to Jack

1:02:00- How Jack learned about Michael Rosenberg

• He was the guy who could make THOSE hands

1:04:27- Opponents cards

1:13:08- Winning Vandy as 44th seed

1:16:24- A grand slam in diamonds

1:19:30- Winning the Reisinger 

1:30:32- Better than Kalita?

Kim Frazer is an Olympian, three time Commonwealth Games gold medalist in rifle shooting and author of Gaining the Mental Edge at Bridge. Seeking a hobby in retirement, Kim took up bridge in 2005 and in 2018 made the Australian women's team in her first attempt.

In this episode Kim shares how the mental techniques that brought her such success in shooting are just as applicable in bridge. Kim discusses the path she took in writing her book and explains with simple practices how to improve one's mental bridge game. Kim is rigorous about improving hers. 

When she encounters a new card combination, she makes sure to look it up in the ACBL Encyclopedia. Her diligence is contagious. Playing in a BBO speedball a few days after we spoke, I encountered AQ762 opposite J954 and wondered, hmm, I wonder if there is more to this combination than I know. (Encyclopedia still in storage)

I played two slams in the same speedball which required careful play and handling. I noticed myself thinking I don't know how to play slams well. Thanks to having talked to Kim, I was able to acknowledge this negative self concept and notice how it didn't serve me. I went on to make both contracts. Thanks Kim!

I echo what Ron Klinger shared in the introduction, "I would just like to bar all of my regular opponents from reading this book."

Here's the fantastic photo of Kim from her shooting days mentioned in the outro. 

Highlights from this episode:

19:00 Dont give yourself an excuse to fail

26:24 Ron Klinger's way of writing a forward

43:19 How Kim credits her partner's mental toughness for her first Commonwealth Games Gold Medal

49:47 How Kim thinks about affirmations

1:1:14 Studying card combinations

1:02:34 Shooting results versus bridge results

1:05:15 BLOW

1:06:15 How Kim's partner looks at the dummy as declarer

1:08:09 Kim's method for tracking the bridge if live bridge ever returns

1:14:36 Kim's bridge goals

1:18:27 Kim's cue word

1:22:01 How she started writing bridge articles

1:24:08 Does Kim hunt?

1:25:10 Better than Kalita?

1:26:59 Why she wrote the book

Adam Wildavsky is recognized as a Grand Life Master by the American Contract Bridge League. He has represented the United States finishing as high as third in the Bermuda Bowl and won the Reisinger Board a Match teams partnering Doug Doub with whom he had not even planned on initially playing the event. 

In addition to my conversation with Adam we have bridge superstar Zia Mahmood discussing a bidding problem shared with me from my friend Anindra Sarkar.

Bob Hamman requires no introduction in bridge circles. His name is synonymous with success at the games highest level. Find out what makes him such a dynamic personality away from the table in this rare conversation.

Just before the Toronto NABC, John sat down with Ladawna Parham, executive director of the ACBL Educational Foundation, and Bronia Jenkins, executive director of the ACBL. Jenkins, "one year in," still has the energy and vision she started with, if not more. Parham, who took the position in November, has had to start from the ground up, with no bridge experience (although she did do her own research prior to getting the job). She is amazed at the depth and vitality of the bridge world.

Listen to how these two women are working together within their organizations to engage and empower those who want to bring bridge to the masses.

In this episode, I sit down with Ethan Derman, a remarkable young talent who just got accepted early decision to the University of Virginia. Ethan shares his journey from playing baseball and water polo to becoming a junior world championship medalist in bridge. We dive into our dramatic Vanderbilt comeback against the heavily favored Rubenstein team featuring Zach Grossack, Michael Rosenberg, Joe Grue and Brad Moss. Where we were down 62 IMPs at the half. Then pulled of one of the most satisfying wins I've ever experienced. Ethan goes into his difficult decision to quit competitive baseball to focus on bridge, and how that choice has shaped his path forward.

We explore how water polo taught him teamwork and mental toughness that translates directly to the bridge table. Ethan discusses his partnership with Avery Silverstein, training with legendary player Chip Martel, and invaluable coaching from Aaron Silverstein, Avery's dad. From winning silver and bronze medals at junior world championships to balancing college applications with tournament play, Ethan has a big future ahead in the game. His summer plans include playing multiple European tournaments as well as the nationals and world championships.

•       🎓 UVA Early Decision: Ethan shares the emotional moment of getting accepted to UVA early decision, his top choice. Though he's not sure how much he'll be involved with Hoos Playing Bridge, the UVA club.

•       🏆 The Epic Vanderbilt Comeback: How our team, Silversetin and the Destroyers, rallied from down 62 IMPs at halftime to defeat the 8th overall-seed.

•       🥈 World Championship Medals: Ethan recounts winning silver in the Under-16 and bronze in the Under-21 world championships, including dramatic qualification battles and playing against the best junior teams in the world.

•       ⚾ Choosing Bridge Over Baseball: The difficult decision to quit competitive baseball despite being on track for college recruitment, and how falling in love with bridge made that choice clear.

•       🤽 Water Polo's Impact on Bridge: How being a varsity water polo player taught Ethan about teamwork, handling pressure, and the goldfish mentality of forgetting the last board, essential skills for competitive bridge.

•       👨‍🏫 Training with the Best: Ethan's structured training regimen have at times included weekly sessions with Chip Martel, one of the winningest players in ACBL history, and constant mentorship from Aaron Silverstein.

•       🎧 More Stories Like This - Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

•       📱 Follow @thesettingtrick - Stay connected on Instagram for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

0:00 Introduction and Welcome

1:45 Getting Into UVA Early Decision

5:41 Future Bridge Goals and Summer Training Plans

8:36 Training with Chip Martell

12:06 The Importance of Mentorship in Bridge

15:17 First Meeting and Playing Together

22:39 Starting Bridge and Playing with Paul Holmes

26:46 Traveling Solo to Tournaments

30:13 Family Background and Bridge Heritage

32:58 College and Career Goals in Finance

35:31 Balancing Bridge with Future Career

37:17 Water Polo and Its Impact on Bridge

42:38 Aaron Silverstein as Coach and Mentor

43:17 The Epic Vanderbilt Comeback Against Grue-Moss

50:10 Quitting Baseball to Focus on Bridge

54:31 Under-16 World Championship Silver Medal

01:01:04 Under-21 World Championship Bronze Medal

01:07:45 The Importance of Aaron's Coaching

01:12:32 Beating Team Rubenstein - Biggest Achievement

01:14:04 Playing on Vugraph Against World-Class Players

01:19:54 Summer Bridge Tour Plans in Europe

01:22:27 Friends' Reactions to Bridge Career

01:26:11 Wrap Up and Looking Ahead

Episode 73: Rise and Fly! Lamont Jones and The Gist of Bid Whist

Normally, this is a Bridge podcast, but today my guest is Bid Whist evangelist Lamont Jones. Lamont recently published the book called The Gist of Bid Whist culminating a project he began in earnest in 2012. He's on a mission to share his love for Bid Whist with a wider audience.

If you've ever been curious about Bid Whist, as I have been recently, Lamont and I go through a lot of the differences as well as the similarities between Bid Whist and Bridge. One of the things we don't have in Bridge is trash talk, and that seems to be a huge part of the Bid Whist culture. Whether it's trash-talking about taking your opponents to Boston or telling them to rise and fly, I definitely think Bid Whist has Bridge beat when it comes to talking smack.

I could not believe when I read in The Gist of Bid Whist that none other than Bob Hamman said, "Bid Whist is more complex than Bridge." My question to you as a listener, is that a good thing? Overall I've just found Lamont to be a super positive, delightful person, and I'll hope you enjoy engaging with him as I did.

Play in the SPARK Pro-Am with and against your favorite Setting Trick guests.

In this episode of The Setting Trick, John welcomes his friend and bridge phenom Ami Zamir—one half of the ACBL's top-ranked pair of 2023. From winning major events to missing the final session of a national championship for the birth of his daughter, Ami shares the highs, the heart, and the hustle of life as a rising star in the world of competitive bridge.

Ami opens up about his journey from high school sweethearts to fatherhood, his chess obsession, and what it's like to chase glory across Europe and the U.S. with partner Oren Telodano. The two discuss how talking through hands (even off the clock) sharpens their game, the emotional rollercoaster of playing for national teams, and how coffee routines and NBA fandoms keep life on the road a little saner.

Plus, you'll hear what it was like to almost win ACBL Player of the Year—and why Ami is still laughing about it.

 👶 Bridge Meets Baby – Ami skipped the Reisinger finals when his daughter was born early. The team understood, proving real partnership goes beyond the table.

🏆 From Platinum Pairs to the Fishbein Trophy – Ami and Oren's standout 2023 included back-to-back top finishes and winning the most masterpoints at the Summer NABC.

🔥 Fights Happen, Wins Follow – After their biggest argument as partners, a long dinner conversation led to a tournament victory. Communication is key.

🎯 Pressure Is a Privilege – Whether tied in a Bermuda Bowl quarter final or in contention for Player of the Year, Ami thrives under pressure—and prefers it that way.

🧠 Daily Debriefs - Practice – Ami and Oren's bridge "training" often centers around conversations—not drills. Talking through scenarios helps them stay aligned.

👟 Hoops, Habits, and Vegan Hacks – Ami shares his basketball battles with Adi, his vegan-at-home/freestyle-abroad food rule, and his partnership's coffee ritual.

 📅 Follow the European Open in Poznań – Ami and Oren will be competing with an English team in this major event.

🎧 More Stories Like This – Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

📱 Follow @thesettingtrick – Stay connected on Instagram and for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

I was inspired to interview Maya Jonas-Silver, because of this post she made on Bridge Winners bemoaning the lack of playing opportunities for her recent bridge initiates. After winning the 2023 20-50 Mini McKenney award Maya hasn't stopped. She has become a passionate advocate for bringing young adults into the game.

Here she shares her journey from learning bridge at summer camp to becoming a bridge teacher and director at Honors Bridge Club in New York City. Her teaching philosophy, that bridge doesn't need to be intimidating or require years of study before you can actually play and enjoy the game, has helped me be more willing to introduce friends to the game using her framework. Maya believes in getting beginners to the table quickly, and no feedback!

We discuss the barriers facing young bridge players, from finding affordable games to navigating the tournament scene without mentors. Maya reflects on the critical moments in her own bridge career, when someone like Yoko Sobel stepped in to encourage her and her husband Jack. She also shares her vision for growing the game, including making beginner classes more accessible, creating online teaching modules, and building a network of bridge mentors to help newcomers transition from lessons to competitive play.

Plus, we touch on the joys and challenges of playing bridge with your spouse and balancing bridge with parenthood.

_____________________________________________________________

🎓 Teaching Bridge Fast: Maya's approach to teaching beginners focuses on getting people playing right away. She believes bridge is simple enough to learn in an hour and emphasizes playing over endless study.

🏆 From Beginner to National Competitor: Maya shares how she went from playing kitchen table bridge to qualifying for Nationals in GNT, finishing second and sending teams to represent New York, including students who had only been playing for 6-18 months.

💡 The Mentorship Gap: Maya discusses how critical it was to have people like Yoko Sobel, Alan Davidson, and Drew Cavalier invest in her development, and why building a network of mentors for young adults is essential for growing the game.

🎯 Making Bridge Accessible: Maya advocates for free or low-cost beginner games, online teaching modules, and better pathways from lessons to duplicate play. She sees young adults as an underserved demographic in the bridge world who need structured support.

❤️ Playing with Your Partner: Maya and her husband Jack navigate the joys and tensions of being bridge partners and life partners. She shares their philosophy: she can handle being the better player, but when he's better, expectations get too high!

🎲 Bridge vs. Board Games: Maya compares bridge to popular board games like Settlers of Catan, arguing that bridge is actually simpler than many games people willingly spend hours learning.

_____________________________________________________________

📱 Practice your skills on FunBridge - Maya's favorite app for beginners because you can replay hands and learn from mistakes.

🎯 Bid with your partner asynchronously using Cuebids - A great tool for getting more practice without needing to coordinate schedules.

🏛️ Visit Maya at Honors Bridge Club in New York City (110 East 55th Street) for beginner classes and supervised play.

📱 Maya's Instructions for teaching bridge to beginners

🎧 More Stories Like This - Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

📱 Follow @thesettingtrick - Stay connected on Instagram for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

_____________________________________________________________

0:00 Start

1:40 Mini McKenney win

2:40 Teaching young adults and the gap in bridge programs

5:00 Maya's 10-week teaching structure

6:20 GNT success: students qualifying for Nationals

8:20 Losing to the eventual GNT champions

11:00 Learning bridge at summer camp

14:00 Moving to New York and finding the bridge community

15:00 Meeting Yoko Sobel and bar bridge in Brooklyn

18:00 Becoming a director at Honors Bridge Club

19:00 Playing in the Mixed Trials

21:00 The importance of GNT for young players

23:00 Katie Sullivan and rare young bridge success stories

26:00 Playing with Omar in NAP

28:00 Playing with James Holzhauer (Jeopardy champion)

31:40 Bridge as a career and overcoming existential dread

35:00 Learning bridge at summer camp and teaching philosophy

36:40 Bridge as a victim of its own success

38:30 Teaching beginners: no trump, suited play, then bidding

40:00 Document for teaching friends in one hour

45:00 Teaching David Ger's friend at the bridge club

48:20 The importance of not giving too much feedback

53:00 Teaching quantitative traders how to bid

54:20 Working at Honors Bridge Club and directing

56:40 The Revenge Mitchell movement

1:00:30 Playing rubber bridge at the Regency

1:07:00 Making bridge free for young adults

1:09:40 Creating a compelling bridge film or series

1:11:00 Favorite resources: FunBridge and Cubits

1:16:20 Bridge fights and playing with your spouse

1:19:30 Bridge and parenthood

1:26:00 Getting hired to play vs. teaching

1:28:00 Studying human evolutionary biology at Harvard

1:30:00 The evolution of cooperation and bridge strategy

In this episode, John McAllister sits down with Julie Marina Sigsgaard and Ella Rosthøj, two young Danish players whose friendship, partnership, and love of bridge have taken them from neighborhood kids to representing Denmark on the world stage. Despite only playing bridge for a handful of years, their dedication and countless hours at the table have already earned them national titles, international medals, and unforgettable experiences around the world.

Ella and Julie share how they grew from casual juniors to key members of Denmark's women's team, the story of their dramatic run at the Champions Cup, what it's like balancing bridge with school and gap years, and why having boyfriends who also play bridge is essential! With warmth and humor, they also open up about temper at the table, tears after tough losses, and the joy of winning B finals (again and again).

Key Highlights:

• 🌟 From Neighbors to Teammates: How growing up just 200 meters apart led to a lifelong friendship and eventual bridge partnership.

• 🏆 Venice Cup Debut: Their first appearance on Denmark's women's national team — finishing 5th in qualification and nearly upsetting China.

• 🎉 Champions Cup Drama: The heartbreak of an 88–88 tie decided on a technicality — and why they're determined to come back stronger.

• ❤️ Bridge & Boyfriends: Both partners found love through the game and share how bridge shapes their relationships.

• 😂 Badminton Battles & Bloopers: From live-streamed badminton matches against the Bilde brothers to funny tournament moments.

• 📸 Building Junior Bridge DK: How their Instagram page is helping grow the game — and how they're planning to secure a Pepsi Max sponsorship.

Resources & Next Steps:

• 📲 Follow Ella & Julie's journey on Junior Bridge DK Instagram

• 📰 Learn more about the Venice Cup and international women's bridge events

• 🎥 Watch the documentary Double Dummy featuring the USA junior team (with familiar faces from their opponents!)

• 🎤 Catch up on past episodes featuring Christina Lund Madsen and other Danish stars

• 🎧 More Stories Like This – Subscribe to The Setting Trick wherever you listen to podcasts for more deep dives into the world of bridge.

• 📱 Follow @thesettingtrick – Stay connected on Instagram and for episode drops, tournament pics, and more.

Episode Breakdown:

0:00 Start

6:33 Representing Denmark at the Venice Cup

7:36 Facing China in the knockout rounds

17:05 Champions Cup run and the controversial ending

21:38 Growing Junior Bridge DK Instagram and chasing sponsorships

23:16 Life as juniors, gap years, and constant bridge practice

31:18 Traveling the world for tournaments (Memphis, Iceland, Prague, Cyprus)

44:17 Denmark's Bermuda Bowl run and watching at Fox & Hounds bar

57:02 Fun stories: badminton matches and team camaraderie

1:08:22 Balancing relationships, studies, and bridge ambitions

1:22:39 Christina as a mentor and "guardian angel" for Danish juniors

1:26:29 Reflections on their journey and what's next

In this episode, John McAllister sits down with Emanuel Unge, the creator of Cue Bids, the hottest app in bridge today. Emanuel shares how he discovered bridge at age 25. After years of poker and board games, and how that late start completely reshaped his life — leading him to meet his wife, build lifelong friendships, and ultimately create a platform that has transformed how players practice bidding worldwide.

From his early simulations to today's sleek app used by the world's best, Emanuel opens up about the passion and persistence behind Cue Bids, why feedback drives innovation, and how features like Leak Finder are helping players spot weaknesses and grow. Along the way, he talks about competing in Sweden, balancing tech with family, his surprising victories at the table, and even what he'd say to Bill Gates if the two crossed paths at a tournament.

Key Highlights:

• 🃏 From Poker to Bridge: Emanuel's journey from card games and Settlers of Catan to finding bridge at 25 and never looking back.
  
  

• 💡 The Birth of Cue Bids: How a simple coding project grew into a global app used daily by pros to sharpen their bidding.
  
  

• 📊 Leak Finder: The newest feature that compares your bidding accuracy to the field — and why it's become Emanuel's favorite tool.
  
  

• 🤝 Bridge & Community: Stories of making friends, teaming up with Swedish stars, and even meeting his wife through the game.
  
  

• 🌍 The Underdog Upset: Emanuel's favorite bridge memory — knocking out a top seed at the Spingold in Toronto.
  
  

• 🔮 Dream Features: From teaching beginners to building world-class robots, Emanuel imagines what unlimited resources could bring to bridge tech.

Resources & Next Steps:

• 📲 Try Cue Bids for yourself: cuebids.com
  
  

• 🎤 Join the Cue Bids Discord to share feedback and connect with other players
  
  

• 📰 Read Kaplan Upsets Struul: A Tale from an Underdog on Bridge Winners (co-written by Emanuel's wife, Erika)
  
  

• 👀 Follow Emanuel's updates and Cue Bids features on Bridge Winners and social media

Episode Breakdown:

• 0:00 Start

• 0:00 Emanuel's late start in bridge at 25 and how it changed his life

• 0:01 Meeting his wife through bridge and creating Cue Bids

• 1:25 Why many pros practice on Cue Bids daily

• 1:38 Emanuel's background: family, math, computers, and games

• 2:26 First bridge lesson and early enthusiasm from other players

• 4:10 Friendships and first partners in bridge (Erica, Clara, Simon Beck, Fredrik Alfredson)

• 7:28 Playing with Erica, moving to London, and eventually marrying her

• 8:07 Career as a developer and passion for board games (Settlers of Catan)

• 9:54 Moving to London for consulting work and balancing bridge & relationships

• 12:08 How Cue Bids began as a coding side project and proof of concept

• 13:59 Partnering with Daniel Goldberg to build Cue Bids into a real product

• 17:37 Launching features like Leak Finder and how it works

• 20:54 Community feedback and feature growth (Discord, events, pro challenges)

• 23:18 How top players use Cue Bids in practice and events

• 25:16 Fixing scoring quirks and improving simulation accuracy

• 27:54 Ranked challenges, Jack/Queen/King/Ace system, and ELO scoring

• 33:01 Working full-time on Cue Bids and why Emanuel turned down big tech jobs

• 37:02 His dream feature: beginner bidding courses & stronger robots

• 45:52 Cue Bids growth to 25,000+ users and partnerships (Lea robot, InBridge)

• 52:57 Emanuel's greatest bridge memory: the Toronto upset vs. Strul

• 1:27:07 Closing thoughts, Bill Gates hopes, and plans for San Francisco

Equal Justice Initiative

Black Lives Matter

Bridge is one of my favorite subjects. I love hearing stories about how people got started, a great play or how they approach a hand. The Setting Trick podcast is the forum where I share conversations with world class bridge players and fellow lovers of the game. As the host and founder, it is my pleasure to share highlights from Seasons One and Two in our first ever Best of The Setting Trick.

Since we had our initial conversation with Bridgewinners co-founder Gavin Wolpert over two years ago, we are grateful to have spoken with 20 individuals over the course of 18 episodes. A portion of the audio from every conversation, save legendary Zia Mahmood's discussion of a bidding problem, can be found in this Best of.

We started this process with our intern Michael Xu having transcripts created for each episode. Michael read through every transcript and made a list of suggestions for what content should make our highlight reel.

My goal was to include audio from each one of our guests. I chose not to include Zia's discussion of a bidding problem to make this episode more accessible for less advanced and non-players alike. Playing with Zia is the subject of both Zach Grossack and Anam Tebha's segments and he is mentioned by former partner's Michael Rosenberg and Bob Hamman as well.

It has been a pleasure to be coached and encouraged by so many of our listeners. I can remember being in Scotland for a Double Dummy screening at Stirling University and going out for a drink afterwards. It made my day when one of the attendees told me he had listened to my conversation with Migry and enjoyed it.

My practice of how I am approaching interviews has been greatly influenced by listener Leonard Epstein whom I have never met. He stressed to me the importance of having an idea what I want to learn from the guest beforehand, sticking to it and making each guest the star. If you have suggestions, please pass them along!

If you gave up because an episode was "unlistenable" in the words of one friend, please give us another chance. I took Dave Caprera's advice and have edited some of the clips from this episode to minimize my interruptions. We have also hired a sound engineer to optimize this audio.

It hit me as I was putting the segments into place what an accomplishment it is to have recorded and published these 18 conservations. I am giddy at the prospect of sharing it with bridge playing and non-bridge playing friends alike.

These stories go beyond bridge. Eight time world champion and three time player of the decade Jeff Meckstroth, after playing his first ever duplicate, his father said, "you were almost average, that's really good!" Jeff thought, "that didn't sound good to me at all!" (21:40)

Or the focus which Migry had when she was able to break up a squeeze at trick two on the last board of a disastrous quarter to help win an NEC Cup match. (46:10)

You are going to hear Meck talk about the danger of pulling a false card too early (32:50), Bob Hamman size up his partners for a match against Sam Lev and Mike Moss (9:58). Gavin Wolpert talking about how September 11th influenced him to choose his passion for bridge over university (5:55). Nabil Edgtton, briefly, on what it's like to play in the Bermuda Bowl (1:13:05) and Michael Rosenberg, even more briefly on his record playing the Bermuda Bowl with Zia (1:12:45).

One of my favorite arrangements in the entire show was having Steve Weinstein gush about playing with Bobby Levin and Paul Soloway (48:45) (57:40) intermixed between Dave Caprera talking about playing with his wife of 44 years Anne Brenner (51:15). For my own personal safety I made sure to include from the head of the US Junior Program Michael Rosenberg how Dave is the best mentor (1:17:00). Dave, don't forget this!

Kare Gjaldbaek talks about the day he improved the most as a bridge player (40:20) and Adam Wildavsky elaborates on what he calls the Keller convention (42:00). From Adam's system notes: bit.ly/adamw-notes

• Keller
• • We don't discuss hands at the table.
  • No apologies.
  • No comments when dummy goes down.

Finally, here's Walt Schafer's scorecard in what Bart Bramley described as "a hand for Edgar." On board 26, playing with Edgar Kaplan, Geir Hegelmo made six diamonds on a double intra finesse in Kaplan's last ever major win.

If you don't like this episode, then there's not much hope for you as a listener to the podcast. This is the best we've got. We hope to set a standard with this Best of, that will be carried over to future TST interviews, including improved practices for recording audio going forward. 

Please enjoy!

John shares his experience of being hired to play bridge professionally for the first time. He talks about meeting and playing with a new partner and the challenges they faced. He also discusses the pressure and self-consciousness he felt as a bridge pro and how he overcame it to improve his performance and gain confidence.

My guest today is Matthew Brown. Matt has been my partner for the last two North American Bridge Championships and for the upcoming March NABC in Louisville.

Matt's partnership with Michael Whibley on team New Zealand has pulled off some big time wins and upsets. Stay tuned to hear how they went from zero to being one of the best pairs in the world.

As his partner, I'm happy to put down the dummy for Matt to play. As his teammate, I'm delighted for him to be playing a difficult contract.

See if you can see why I think our temperaments are quite different.