Explore every episode of the podcast The Second Shift
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Turn On Your Superpowers: Transforming Doctor Skills Into New Opportunities with Amy Fogelman MD | 12 Oct 2026 | 01:03:58 | |
Connect with Dr. Amy Fogelman Website: https://www.highrockexperts.com High Rock Academy: Medical expert witness training and education Connect with Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP® Website: https://www.bryanjepson.com The Second Shift Podcast: https://www.2ndshiftpodcast.com Financial Planning: https://www.targetedwealthsolutions.com About This Episode What if the skills you need for your next career are the very skills you've spent decades developing? After 20 years practicing internal medicine, Dr. Amy Fogelman found herself burned out, anxious, and struggling to imagine life outside clinical medicine. It took three simple words from her husband — "You can stop" — to help her recognize that leaving medicine was an option. But what would she do next? Instead of pursuing another degree, Amy took six months to explore possibilities, connect with mentors, and discover the value of skills she already possessed. Today, she's the founder of High Rock Experts and High Rock Academy, connecting attorneys with qualified medical experts and teaching physicians how to succeed in medical-legal consulting. In this episode of The Second Shift, Amy and Bryan explore physician identity, the emotional challenges of career transitions, and why developing interests outside clinical practice may actually protect against burnout. Amy believes physicians have superpowers — critical thinking, problem-solving, communication, and relationship-building skills that translate into countless opportunities beyond the exam room. They also discuss the practical side of medical expert witness work, including how to get started, earning potential, and why it can be intellectually rewarding even for physicians who continue practicing medicine. Amy's story reminds us that changing careers doesn't mean starting over. Your experience isn't wasted. It may be exactly what prepares you for what's next. In This Episode 00:00 – Introduction: A physician's hidden superpowers 04:32 – Amy's journey into medicine and expert witness work 07:16 – Imposter syndrome and recognizing your expertise 11:49 – Burnout, perfectionism, and loss of control 15:00 – "You can stop": Recognizing the need for change 17:26 – Taking six months to explore new possibilities 20:18 – Entrepreneurship and building High Rock Experts 23:17 – How burnout affects the people we love 27:08 – Physician identity and the fear of leaving medicine 29:27 – Why professional variety can prevent burnout 33:19 – Ethics and credibility in medical expert witness work 38:18 – Expert witness compensation and opportunities 43:13 – Becoming an entrepreneur without a business degree 49:44 – Redefining identity and finding flexibility 53:06 – What Amy misses about clinical medicine 56:18 – What's next for Amy? 57:00 – Defining wealth through relationships, not achievements 59:42 – Bryan's five closing takeaways Hashtags #TheSecondShift #PhysicianCareerTransition #PhysicianBurnout #PhysicianEntrepreneur #MedicalExpertWitness #LifeAfterMedicine #CareerReinvention #PhysicianIdentity | |||
| Beyond FIRE: Financially Independent, Work Optional with Jimmy Turner MD | 28 Sep 2026 | 01:05:47 | |
Learn more about Dr. Jimmy Turner: Connect with Bryan: What is financial independence actually for? For Dr. Jimmy Turner, the answer isn’t necessarily early retirement. It’s autonomy—the freedom to decide how much you work, what kind of work you do, and how you spend your time. Jimmy is a practicing anesthesiologist and the founder of Money Meets Medicine. His path into physician finance began with his own financial mistakes and a desire to help other physicians avoid making the same ones. What started as a side business eventually became something much more important: a source of flexibility when burnout and disappointment disrupted the career path he thought he would follow. In this conversation, we talk about the achievement treadmill in medicine, the “arrival fallacy” that keeps us chasing the next milestone, and why reaching financial independence—or even retirement—doesn’t automatically create a meaningful life. We also explore why it’s important to understand what is actually making you unhappy before assuming that changing jobs or leaving medicine will solve the problem. Jimmy offers an alternative to the traditional FIRE mindset: FIWO—Financial Independence, Work Optional. The goal isn’t necessarily to stop working. It’s to reach a point where work becomes a choice, giving you the freedom to practice medicine on your terms, pursue something new, or reshape your career as your priorities change. Ultimately, this conversation is about using money for something more valuable than simply accumulating wealth: creating the autonomy to build a life and career you actually want. In This Episode04:34 — How Jimmy’s financial mistakes led him into physician financial education #TheSecondShift #JimmyTurner #MoneyMeetsMedicine #FinancialIndependence #FIWO #FIRE #PhysicianFinance #PhysicianBurnout #CareerTransition #PhysicianEntrepreneur #TrueWealth | |||
| Giving Yourself Permission to Explore with Linda Lawrence MD | 14 Sep 2026 | 01:03:10 | |
Connect with Dr. Linda Lawrence Linda Lawrence MD https://www.peoplealwayshcc.com/ Bryan Jepson MD, CFP® What if you don't need to know exactly where your career is going before you start exploring what comes next? Dr. Linda Lawrence has built a career around following opportunities she could never have predicted. An emergency physician by training, she spent much of her clinical career in the U.S. Air Force, rising to the rank of colonel and serving in senior leadership roles. She has also served as president of the American College of Emergency Physicians and is now an executive coach and founder of People Always Healthcare Consulting. In this conversation, Linda and I talk about what it takes to build a meaningful next chapter without having the entire path mapped out in advance. We explore how to recognize the work that gives you energy, why networking should be about curiosity rather than transactions, how physicians can become more comfortable with ambiguity and failure, and why giving yourself permission to explore may be the most important first step toward a second shift. We also discuss leadership, coaching, identity, relationships, and the difference between pursuing another accomplishment and building a life around what actually matters to you. As Linda puts it: fear regret more than failure. In This Episode00:00 – Opening: Paying attention to what gives you energy Pay attention to what gives you energy. You don't need to know the destination before you begin exploring. Build a tribe that expands your view of what's possible. Treat failure as learning rather than defeat. And remember that a truly wealthy life is ultimately rich in relationships. #TheSecondShift #PhysicianLeadership #CareerTransition #LifeAfterMedicine #PhysicianRetirement | |||
| Rediscovering Your Deep Joy with Dr. Thom Mayer | 31 Aug 2026 | 01:02:31 | |
Learn more or connect with Thom: Thommayermd.com Listen to other episodes: 2ndshiftpodcast.com More physician finance content: bryanjepson.com Dr. Thom Mayer has never followed a conventional career path. His journey has taken him from college football and emergency medicine to national healthcare leadership, disaster response, professional sports, writing, teaching, and his current role as medical director of the NFL Players Association. Through every transition, he has remained guided by a central question: Where can I have the greatest impact? In this episode, Thom shares stories and lessons from a career built around saying yes to unexpected opportunities. We discuss how physicians can recognize the transferable skills they have developed, trust themselves when the next step does not come with a clear roadmap, and use failure as fuel for continued growth. Thom also offers a powerful perspective on burnout—not simply as exhaustion, but as the inability to feel our “deep joy.” This conversation goes beyond career achievement. It is about evolving as our sources of meaning change, finding purpose in both joyful and painful moments, and remembering that true wealth is ultimately measured through wisdom, hope, relationships, and the way we treat the people around us. | |||
| Beyond Clinical Medicine: Finding What Comes Next with Morgan Leafe, MD and Mandy Armitage, MD | 17 Aug 2026 | 01:04:20 | |
Learn more at: www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com Sign up for their annual conference: https://www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com/physician-career-transition-conference Download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Find more physician finance content at bryanjepson.com What happens when the career you worked so hard to build no longer fits the life you want? Drs. Morgan Leafe and Mandy Armitage, co-founders of the Non-Clinical Physicians Network, join me to talk about their own journeys from clinical medicine into careers that ultimately included medical writing, entrepreneurship, career education, and consulting. We explore why physicians often struggle to give themselves permission to consider another path, the value of career coaching and community, and why the best time to explore your options may be before you actually need them. Morgan and Mandy also share some of the opportunities available to physicians outside traditional practice, including medical writing, pharma, utilization management, informatics, health tech, and the rapidly evolving world of AI. We also discuss the financial side of career transition, why replacing your clinical salary isn't always the right benchmark, and how financial independence can give you the freedom to choose work based on meaning and fit rather than income alone. Finally, Morgan and Mandy share resources available through the Non-Clinical Physicians Network and their upcoming in-person conference for physicians exploring careers beyond clinical medicine. Whether you're burned out, approaching retirement, or simply curious about what else might be possible, this conversation is a reminder that becoming a physician doesn't mean you have to do the same thing forever. | |||
| Great Leaders Build People, Not Just Teams with Dr. Michael Fraser, PhD | 30 Jul 2026 | 00:58:12 | |
Useful links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mfraserdc1/ What separates great leaders from great performers? Most of us spend our careers learning how to become experts. Far fewer learn how to become leaders. In this episode of The Second Shift, I sit down with Dr. Mike Fraser, CEO of the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP), to explore one of the most important career transitions professionals ever make: the shift from individual achievement to developing others. Mike shares lessons from leading national physician organizations, building high-performing teams, and helping professionals navigate career transitions. Along the way, we discuss why relationships matter more than résumés, how to create a culture of ownership, why emergency physicians are uniquely suited for second careers, and how our definition of a wealthy life evolves over time. Whether you're leading a team, considering your next career chapter, or simply trying to build a life of greater purpose, this conversation offers practical wisdom that extends far beyond medicine. In this episode:
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| Optionality: The Real Goal of Financial Independence | 13 Jul 2026 | 00:47:17 | |
Over the first ten episodes of The Second Shift, one lesson has surfaced again and again: financial independence isn't really about retiring early. It's about creating options. In this episode, Bryan and Aaron step back from the interviews to explore one of the biggest themes emerging from their guests' stories. Why do so few financially independent people actually stop working? What changes when money is no longer the primary driver of your decisions? And how can financial independence help you build a career—and a life—that better reflects your values? Along the way, they discuss: • Why optionality may be more valuable than retirement • The difference between freedom and leisure • Lessons from the FIRE movement • How financial independence changes the way you work long before you retire • Why good financial planning should create choices—not just a retirement date Whether you're years away from retirement or simply wondering what's next, this conversation challenges the traditional view of financial independence and offers a more meaningful definition of wealth. Financial independence doesn't buy retirement. It buys the freedom to choose what comes next. | |||
| When Retirement Isn't The End of the Journey with Logan Foltz, MD | 26 Jun 2026 | 01:08:20 | |
Connect with Dr. Foltz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-foltz/ or logan@taxsmartmd.com. Or learn more on his website: https://www.taxsmartmd.com/ Link to more episode of the podcast and download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Many physicians dream of the day they become financially independent. But what happens when you finally reach that goal—and discover it's not the finish line you expected? In this episode, I sit down with psychiatrist-turned-tax advisor Dr. Logan Foltz to discuss his unconventional journey out of clinical medicine. After recognizing early in his career that medicine wasn't the right fit, Logan pursued financial independence with the goal of retiring young. But once he stepped away, he realized that freedom alone wasn't enough. Our conversation explores the psychology of career transitions, the challenge of finding purpose after financial independence, and why discovering your second shift is often a process rather than a single decision. We also discuss the importance of alignment, autonomy, networking, entrepreneurship, and learning to define what "enough" really means. Whether you're considering retirement, a career change, or simply wondering what's next, this episode is a reminder that the journey doesn't end when work becomes optional—it often begins there. In this episode, we discuss:
If you enjoy these conversations, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast with someone who may be preparing for their own second shift. | |||
| Rich in Purpose: On Reinvention, Taking Risks, and Living Life to the Fullest with Marvin Wayne, MD | 09 Jun 2026 | 00:59:13 | |
Connect with Dr. Wayne: linkedin.com/in/marvin-wayne-a8a0218 Listen to more episodes or download the Second Shift Blueprint: https://2ndshiftpodcast.com What does it really mean to live a rich life? | |||
| When Retirement Takes an Unexpected Turn: On Reinvention and Meaning with Fred Dennis, MD | 25 May 2026 | 01:05:54 | |
To connect with Dr. Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederickdennis/ Dr. Fred Dennis has spent a lifetime reinventing himself. From rural general practice in Canada to emergency medicine leadership in California, his career evolved through curiosity, relationships, and a willingness to say yes to unexpected opportunities. In this episode of The Second Shift Podcast, Dr. Dennis reflects on decades in medicine, healthcare leadership, business, and mentorship. He shares lessons about career adaptability, professional relationships, physician identity, and the importance of creating opportunities beyond clinical medicine. But this conversation goes much deeper than career transitions. Fred opens up about how an unexpected health crisis involving his wife completely changed his vision of retirement and forced him to rethink purpose, caregiving, and what truly matters in life. He discusses the emotional reality of reinvention after medicine, the importance of family and support systems, and why financial independence creates the freedom to adapt when life does not go according to plan. Throughout the conversation, Fred offers wisdom earned through decades of medicine, leadership, caregiving, and personal adversity. His message is ultimately one of resilience, purpose, and living fully while you still can. In This Episode
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| Before You Retire: 5 Questions Every High Achiever Must Answer | The Second Shift Blueprint | 06 May 2026 | 00:44:14 | |
You built the career. | |||
| From Physician to Freedom: Designing a Life After Medicine with Steven Jepson, MD | 21 Apr 2026 | 01:09:23 | |
Learn more about Steve Jepson and slow travel:
This is a conversation about what “true wealth” can look | |||
| When the Doctor Becomes the Patient with Peter Crane, MD | 08 Apr 2026 | 01:08:37 | |
Episode Overview Dr. Peter Crane is a rural family physician in Idaho, host of Doctors Making a Difference, and a cancer survivor still actively practicing medicine while undergoing treatment. In this conversation, he reflects on the unusual path that brought him back to his hometown to replace the physician who delivered him, the unique demands and rewards of rural medicine, and what it means to care for a community where your patients are also your neighbors, friends, and fellow parents. The conversation takes a deeper turn as Peter shares the story of discovering a 26-centimeter sarcoma and navigating life as both physician and patient. He talks candidly about continuing to work through radiation and treatment, the support he received from colleagues who stepped in when he could not, and how his diagnosis sharpened his perspective on time, family, burnout, and purpose. Throughout the episode, Peter offers a thoughtful defense of medicine as a calling worth protecting, even in a system that often seems built to drain joy from the people inside it. This is a conversation about service, identity, resilience, and the difference between making a living and making a life. What We Cover
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| Too Dumb to Quit with John Shufeldt, MD | 25 Mar 2026 | 01:05:01 | |
John Shufeldt School of Medicine and Medical Engineering: https://medicine.asu.edu/ Dr. John Shufeldt - ER doc, serial entrepreneur, and namesake of ASU's new medical school - talks about building companies while never leaving the exam room. From selling a helicopter to make payroll to discovering a patient's CPAP was useless without electricity, John traces a career defined by stacking identities rather than trading them. The conversation moves from startup mechanics into harder territory: healthcare disparity on tribal lands, the system's betrayal of its own physicians, and why he chose "kind" as his legacy over everything else on his CV. Deep TakeawaysThe "And" Is the Strategy. John credits his longevity to never being only a physician. The second identity - entrepreneur, student, investor - wasn't a distraction. It was the pressure valve that kept medicine sustainable for 30+ years. Grit Narratives Can Be Misleading. John says "too dumb to quit," but his behavior - pivoting business models, reading markets, evaluating founders with nuance - tells a different story. The hosts catch this in the debrief: the most strategic people often credit persistence because they genuinely believe it mattered more. They might be wrong. Shame, Not Ambition, Built Tribal Health. The electricity story isn't just an anecdote, it's the fracture point. John wasn't driven to tribal medicine by opportunity. He was driven by embarrassment at his own ignorance of conditions he compares to below the third world, inside the United States. The Relational Cost Goes Unexamined. No salary for years, triple-mortgaged house, sleep deprivation. John frames it with humor. But the hosts acknowledge what the interview didn't reach: it would be rare to sustain this pace without significant personal sacrifice that never made the highlight reel. Kindness as Radical Legacy. Asked how he wants to be remembered, John skips the résumé and says "kind." The unresolved tension: can relentless ambition and consistent kindness coexist, or does one inevitably erode the other? Chapters
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| Staying Relevant After You Hang Up the White Coat with Stephen Anderson, MD | 03 Mar 2026 | 01:01:57 | |
For ACEP members interested in Exploring Retirement, Log into www.ACEP.org Http://engaged.acep.org/main/groups/137305/lounge (to get to the engaged member platform) For more about us: In this episode of the Second Shift podcast, hosts Bryan Jepson and Aaron Milledge welcome Dr. Stephen Anderson, a retired emergency medicine physician, to discuss his extensive career, community advocacy, and the transition to retirement. Dr. Anderson shares insights on the importance of staying relevant after retirement, the impact of personal tragedy on advocacy work, and the significance of prioritizing family and personal fulfillment. The conversation also touches on the Naloxone Project, financial planning for retirement, and the challenges of burnout in the medical profession. Takeaways
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| What No One Tells You About Leaving with Bryan Jepson, MD | 03 Mar 2026 | 00:56:21 | |
Learn more about us: www.targetedwealthsolutions.com The Second Shift Takeaways
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