Make sure to check out Henry’s book “Original Love” https://henryshukman.com/writing/original-love Also check out the meditation app “The Way” https://www.thewayapp.com/?source=us_traffic Welcome to The Sacred Speaks! In this episode, I sit down with Henry Shukman—a Zen teacher, poet, and co-founder of The Way meditation app. Together, we explore the profound mysteries of meditation, spirituality, and the human experience. Henry shares his journey from his early struggles with eczema and psychological challenges to his transformative awakening and his life as a Zen teacher. We dive deep into Zen concepts, the beauty of ordinary experience, and the intersection of poetry and meditation. Henry offers wisdom on navigating common meditation hindrances and shares practical advice for cultivating awareness, deepening meaning, and connecting with the unseen currents of existence. Join us as we uncover the power of meditation to transform both our inner and outer lives. 👉Connect to Henry Shukman Website https://henryshukman.com/ The Way Meditation App https://www.thewayapp.com/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/henryshukman/?hl=en YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA645lNnrksSrZIwe6mJ4mQ (00:00) Welcome to The Sacred Speaks (00:29) Introducing Henry Shukman (01:27) Henry's Journey into Zen and Meditation (03:24) The Essence of Zen Practice (05:13) The Transformative Power of Meditation (11:40) Early Struggles and Discoveries (21:12) The Awakening Experience (32:17) The Path to Healing and Teaching (45:01) The Beauty of Ordinary Experience (52:09) Exploring the Zen Concept of Oneness (53:40) The Feminine Perspective in Philosophy (54:58) Zen Stories and Their Parallels (56:16) A Transformative Zen Experience (01:00:13) The Intersection of Poetry and Meditation (01:08:56) A Simple Guide to Meditation (01:17:51) Navigating Cultural and Religious Views on Meditation (01:25:23) Understanding and Overcoming Meditation Hindrances (01:35:31) Final Thoughts and Gratitude

Interview begins: 3:40 In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, Dr. John Price hosts Ayize Jama-Everett for a discussion on spirituality, religion, cultural identity, and the pervasive impact of colonization. Ayize shares insights from his journey, beginning with how his roots in Harlem and his work within the psychedelic space have shaped his perspective on community, healing, and cultural reclamation. Together, they examine how long-established cultural dynamics continue to influence our lives, often without our conscious awareness. Ayize discusses his efforts to influence these dynamics at a cultural level, reflecting on religious and spiritual practices as tools for both personal and collective transformation. They also explore the complexities of whiteness—not only as a cultural identity shaped by colonization but as an orientation that often perpetuates colonizing behaviors toward other cultures. Ayize shares the purpose behind his documentary, A Table of Our Own, which aims to expand access to healing practices for Black people and to highlight the important work already being done within these communities. The project seeks to de-stigmatize these substances, reframing them as natural balms that have served as spiritual and psychological support for Black people over millennia. The conversation touches on Black joy, the importance of reconnecting with land-based spiritual practices, and the need to decolonize healing spaces. Ayize’s reflections offer a fresh lens on the healing power of connection, inspiring listeners to consider how we might engage in reclaiming and honoring our spiritual and cultural roots. Bio: Ayize Jama-Everett holds three Master’s degrees: Divinity, Psychology, and in Fine Arts, Writing. He blends these degrees in all his work, often identifying as a guerilla theologian, a community-based therapist, and an afro-futurist in the same breath. He’s taught at Starr King School for the Ministry, California College of the Arts, The University of California, Riverside, Western Colorado College, and several private High schools for over twenty years. His expertise includes working with adolescents, the history of substance use in the United States, the history of Sacred Plant medicines in the Maghreb, the religious roots of political violence from Ireland to the Middle East, educational arts pedagogy, and Afrofuturism. He’s published four novels (The Liminal series) and two graphic novels (Box of Bones and The Last Count of Monte Cristo). www.atableofourown.org Website for The Sacred Speaks: www.thesacredspeaks.com/ WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: www.thecenterforhas.com/ Theme music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com/

Interview begins @ 4:08 In episode 106 of "The Sacred Speaks" podcast, John and guest Lisa Marchiano dive into the complex realms of anger, manipulation, rage, and their inherent values for the feminine in our conversation as we discuss her book, The Vital Spark: Reclaim Your Outlaw Feminine Energies and Find Your Feminine Fire. Our conversation starts with a focus on the feminine wisdom tradition, contrasting the masculine and feminine as psychological principles. These principles are hard to define precisely, and it's essential to clarify our terms to truly understand them. Lisa brings her clinical experience into the discussion, highlighting the subtle yet significant differences she observes in men and women, despite their underlying similarities. This episode explores the notion that, regardless of gender, we all have access to a spectrum of psychological attributes. Lisa illustrates how it might be easier for individuals to access certain aspects of these masculine or feminine poles, though we all possess the capacity for both. Within her book Lisa uses Lilith, a figure from early Jewish mystical lore, as an emblem of empowered women who challenge cultural and hierarchical norms. This discussion segues into Lisa's book-writing process, which she describes as a journey of self-discovery, particularly in the realm of claiming personal authority. We discuss the concepts of archetypes, developmental theories from Freud to Jung, and the role of archetypes in shaping our psychological expressions, family systems, and early environments. The episode further examines the use of fairy tales in Lisa's book as a means to illustrate these archetypal patterns and universal psychological themes. An intriguing aspect of our dialogue is the concept of the 'worthy opponent' and how gender polarities seek this dynamic in various relationships, be it professional, romantic, or otherwise. These relationships challenge us to express the fullest version of ourselves. We discuss the differences between men and women in sexual dynamics, the operation of these polarities, and the importance of mutuality in sexual relationships. Lastly, we touch upon the shadow aspect of the feminine, with Lisa providing insightful context and interpretations. This episode is a deep dive into understanding our inner selves and the psychological principles that shape our experiences and interactions. Bio: Lisa Marchiano is an award-winning author, podcaster, and certified Jungian analyst. Her highly-acclaimed books draw upon the healing wisdom of fairy tales to help women connect more deeply with themselves. Lisa is a host of the popular depth-psychology podcast This Jungian Life. With over 10 million downloads and a loyal following that includes artists, journalists, and celebrities, This Jungian Life is a top podcast in the US in the health and fitness category. Lisa obtained her BA from Brown University. She holds a Master of International Affairs from Columbia University and a Master of Social Work from New York University. She trained at the Inter-regional Society of Jungian Analysts. In addition to her books, Lisa’s writing has appeared in numerous publications, including the Journal of Analytical Psychology. She is a sought-after speaking and workshop facilitator who has lectured widely both in the US and abroad. https://lisamarchiano.com www.spinningstraw.com https://thisjungianlife.com Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

This episode of the podcast begins with Dr. Cross discussing how his history influences the work that he has been doing with families and children “from hard places” for almost 40 years. This conversation explores David’s philosophical orientation as informed by the work of philosopher Benedict De Spinoza. David cites that Spinoza served as close to a philosophical “North Star” as anyone could get. David sees Spinoza as an ascetic, and one aspect of his life is the “honest work” that grounds us. Doing the real work of trying to make a difference. This conversation touches upon human growth and development, trauma and trauma-informed care, Eastern and Western philosophy, attachment, culture, and politics. Our conversation deconstructs the essence of the trust-based connection that Dr. Cross and his partner in the creation of the Karyn Purvis Institute of Child Development, Dr. Karyn Purvis, have worked to help bring to families and kids of the world. Bio: Dr. David Cross is the Rees-Jones Director of the Karyn Purvis Institute of Child Development and a Professor in the TCU Department of Psychology. Dr. Cross leads the Institute in its triple mission of research, education and outreach to improve the lives of children who have experienced abuse, neglect, and/or trauma. He has authored many peer-reviewed publications about issues regarding at-risk children. Dr. Cross earned his B.S. from California State University Fresno with a major in Psychology, and then attended The University of Michigan in Ann Arbor for graduate study, beginning in 1980. He earned an M.A. in Psychology and an M.A. in Statistics. He later earned a Ph.D. in Education and Psychology. In 1985, he accepted a position as Assistant Professor in TCU’s Department of Psychology. Dr. Cross, with his former colleague Dr. Karyn Purvis, co-authored “The Connected Child: Bringing Hope and Healing to Your Adoptive Family” to help adoptive parents understand the needs of children from hard places. “The Connected Child” continues to be a best-seller among adoption books. Together, Drs. Purvis and Cross created Trust-Based Relational Intervention® (TBRI®), a holistic, attachment based, trauma-informed, and evidence-based intervention for children who have experienced relational trauma. Dr. Cross and his staff at the Institute regularly train professionals from around the world in TBRI®. The Institute is actively engaged in research that not only demonstrates the efficacy of TBRI® as an evidence-based intervention, but also in research about how to grow trauma-informed organizations and communities. In addition to his responsibilities at the Institute, Dr. Cross teaches many TCU courses including Case Studies in Child Development, Generalized Linear Models, and Graduate Developmental Psychology. Dr. Cross’s wife, Trudy, is a retired Kindergarten teacher and a practicing Grandmother. His daughter, Jennifer, graduated from TCU in 2003, and is an environmental project manager for CB&I. His son, Nathan, is a former USMC Captain, and is now studying history at UTA. https://child.tcu.edu Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Theme music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: My 66 by Shadows of Jets https://www.facebook.com/ShadowsOfJets/

Harvey is a psychotherapist and a teacher of Tibetan Buddhism, who received the title of Lama, Vajra Master from his teacher in 2010 and in a teaching context is known as Lama Namgyal Dorje. Dr. Aronson’s academic and spiritual path places him in an informed position to speak about the intersection of the both Buddhism and psychology; so much so that his book, Buddhist Practice On Western Ground, does just that. His treatment of culture, in general, and the differences between Tibetan and “Western” culture is an enlightening endeavor for any reader of his work, as it calls the reader to interrogate the patterns of their culture. Any participant of therapy will often hear their therapist urge them to “feel their feelings” with the implication that they have been “cut off” from their ability to be informed and signaled by one means the psyche communicates – through the body and with the feelings. He states that much of what the psychotherapist is working to do is to invite the individual to feel and experience what they were denied the validity of experiencing through their development. Harvey roots his exploration of the differences between Buddhism and Western psychology within a transformation that occurred in his life while teaching as a professor of Buddhist studies. As a young professor, Dr. Aronson learned that he would not get tenure and then began to experience a series of panic attacks, which sent him seeking a therapist. This process brought to the foreground the differences between the two and also sent him down the path of psychotherapeutic practice. Another core aspect of Harvey’s work is developmental theory as it relates to the Western practices of child-rearing and the implications that the cultural approach to parenting may appears to contribute and inform both how Westerners begin to understand themselves and also express their feelings and also how therapy treats the potential injuries that occur as a consequence – noting that, no matter the culture in which we develop, there will usually be some kind of wound as a result. Harvey states that many of the wounds that we endure through life are relational in nature and therefore the relational aspect of psychotherapy may meet the wound on the ground of its origin. Bio: Harvey B. Aronson, holds a BA in Chemistry from Brooklyn College, an MSW from Boston University, and a PhD in Buddhist Studies from the University of Wisconsin. He has studied extensively with prominent teachers in the Geluk, Dzogchen and Theravada traditions in India, Nepal and the United States. Harvey is the author of Buddhist Practice on Western Ground and Love and Sympathy in Theravada Buddhism, and a recognized scholar of the intersections between traditional Buddhist practice and Western therapeutic modalities. Harvey, and his wife Anne C. Klein, both hold PhDs in Buddhist Studies with a long, shared history of learning from the highest lamas of Tibetan traditions, and they founded Dawn Mountain in 1996. As practitioners, scholars, translators and gifted teachers, they serve Western seekers of all stripes and have fostered a strong community of advanced students that reaches from Houston to Portland, Oregon; Berkeley, California; Bloomington, Indiana; Ithaca, New York; Copenhagen, Denmark and beyond Harvey and Anne have been practicing and studying together in Asia and the west since 1970. They received the title of Lama, Vajra Master from their teacher in 2010 and in teaching context are known respectively as Lama Rigzin Drolma and Lama Namgyal Dorje. www.dawnmountain.org Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Theme music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: New Age, by Cut Throat Finches www.cutthroatfinches.com

We begin our conversation with Bob joking that, as a young boy growing up in the San Francisco Bay area, he knew he was a Democrat before he knew he was Jewish. Bob was deeply influenced by Robert “Bobby” Kennedy’s position as an agent of change so much so that he began working with the Kennedy campaign early in his life; and considering that Bobby Kennedy was a hero figure for Bob, Kennedy’s death greatly impacted him so much so that he continued the work of activism for collective change. When he was a young man, Bob embarked on a path into education, and as a self-professed skeptic, he hesitantly began a meditation practice at 18 years old although that was soon overwhelmed by the profound experience that transcendental meditation brought into his life. With the seeds of desire to educate children, Bob began teaching and educating inner-city youth and inmates about the benefits of meditation. He has continued along this path ever since. Bob and David Lynch began the nonprofit The David Lynch Foundation and have since offered scholarships to seek to teach over one million children the transformative value of meditation. The results of these interventions are astounding. To cite one example, within a year or two, following learning meditation some of the most underperforming schools in the bay area elevated the ranks to become among some of the higher performing schools in the area. Bob discusses three forms of meditation and provides a little background on each, and expands on the practice of Transcendental Meditation. Bob draws from ancient practice to modern neuroscience to back up his claims of how revolutionary a meditation practice can be for your life – and, as he frames it, it is more accessible than you may think. Bio: Bob Roth is one of the most experienced and sought-after meditation leaders in America. Over the past 45 years, Bob has taught Transcendental Meditation to many thousands of people and is the author of the forthcoming authoritative book on the subject, entitled "Strength in Stillness: The Power of Transcendental Meditation", which will be published internationally by Simon & Schuster in February 2018. Bob Currently serves as the CEO of the David Lynch Foundation, a 501(c)(3) charity which has brought meditation to over 500,000 inner-city youth in underserved schools in 35 countries, to veterans and their families who suffer from post-traumatic stress, and women and children who are survivors of domestic violence. Bob also directs the Center for Leadership Performance, another nonprofit, which is bringing meditation to Fortune 100 companies, government organizations, and nonprofit charities. Bob is the host of the SiriusXM radio show, "Success Without Stress" and has spoken about meditation to industry leaders at such gatherings as Google Zeitgeist, Aspen Ideas Festival, Aspen Brain Conference, Wisdom2.0, and Summit. https://www.davidlynchfoundation.org Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: Jeff Price https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/mississippi-lights/1393868655

Robert speaks with eloquence as he grounds his research (me-search) in his personal story, a story that has a sobering way of articulating both the academic and the particular dynamic between, hope and despair, his subject of study. Robert has emerged from the depth and is now able to support others as they make a similar journey into their own experiences of the ups of life and also the downs. About the time when many of us were working on how to write and understand basic math, Robert was becoming more and more immersed in the world of alcohol and drugs. Many people struggle to separate themselves from the pull of these addictions, but for Robert, this aspect of his early life has served to provide him with the experiential knowledge that often only within the depths of personal darkness may we come to know the light of hope. After researching these phenomena, Robert does not believe hope to be intellectual, but relational – we “do” hope - meaning that no matter how hopeless we may feel at any time, we can cultivate a deeper relationship to hope and imagine ourselves to brighter and broader life experience. Biography: Robert Hilliker, LCSW, LCDC received his Master’s degree from the University of Houston’s Graduate College of Social Work. Following graduation Robert pursued additional training working as a Post-Graduate Social Work Fellow at The Menninger Clinic. He then completed a two-year fellowship at the Center for Psychoanalytic Studies. Currently, Robert is a doctoral student at the Institute for Clinical Social Work in Chicago, IL. He worked for three years at The Council on Alcohol and Drugs Houston where he served as the Manager of Executive and Treatment Services. As a therapist in the adult intensive outpatient program he provided clinical treatment services to individuals, couples, families, and groups. Robert worked at The Daring Way LLC with Dr. Brené Brown where he served as the Chief Clinical Officer for over three years. He has facilitated this methodology across diverse settings including Baylor Psychiatry Clinic, The Menninger Clinic, and The Council on Alcohol and Drugs Houston. In April 2014, Robert co-founded and became the Managing Partner for The Lovett Center LLC with his business partner, Will Davis. The Lovett Center is a community of helping professionals that offers traditional lease space, part-time office space, as well as opportunities for collaboration and continued learning for therapists. Robert works with patients in private practice at The Lovett Center and serves as the Clinical Director for the Pathos Program at The Lovett Center. Pathos offers intensive outpatient, supportive outpatient, and aftercare programming for people struggling with addiction and co-occurring mental health issues. Robert’s private practice focuses on work with professionals, addictive disorders, shame resiliency, and behavioral health issues. He provides individual, couples, family, and group psychotherapy. https://thelovettcenter.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: Holy Moly http://www.holymolytexas.com Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

Dr. Shefali explains that her primary entry point into the world of connecting with and teaching parenting is through her desire to expand the consciousness of each person. She explains that because the beginning stages of parenting so often create a willingness to make sacrifices on behalf of the parent, she realized that people were more amenable to “great spiritual change.” She frames consciousness as an act of introspection whereby each of us may learn how to challenge the “lies” that culture has told us about who and how we need to be. Culture while necessary, inevitably wounds people because the nature of culture is bi-polar, while it provides guidance by which we can connect to the world, it also limits our capacity to come to know ourselves. We are each called to both learn to be in the world and then to also see through the guises presented by the culture of fear and control that are interwoven within the nature of culture. To achieve this, the threshold through which we must all pass is marked by the feeling of our vulnerability and how the common refrain of “this is hard’ is the precise moment we need to be most fully engaged. We are asking ourselves not to feel pain, but are entirely aware that in each of our lives pain is correlated with our personal growth. Dr. Shefali is asked what it means when we parents desire for our kids to be “successful and happy”? Learn Dr. Shefali’s insight into this and other questions about parenting. Her core approach is that while the act of parents “turning the spotlight” away from our kids and onto ourselves is a scary experience, it is also an expanding one, with the consequence of the entire family feeling more abundant and more free to be the unique being each member of the family was created to be. Oprah has endorsed Shefali’s work as revolutionary and life-changing. Dr. Shefali Tsabary’s ground-breaking approach to parenting has taken her books to the top of The NY Times best-sellers list. Her blend of clinical psychology and eastern mindfulness sets her apart as a leader in the field of mindfulness psychology. As an international speaker, she speaks at events around the globe, spreading her message of conscious parenting and mindful living. She also has a private practice where she consults with families and couples. Shefali received her doctorate in Clinical Psychology from Columbia University, New York. Dr. Tsabary was exposed to Eastern mindfulness at an early age and integrates its teachings with Western psychology. Blending East and West, she lectures extensively on mindful living and conscious parenting around the world and is in private practice. Dr. Shefali is a keynote speaker who presents at conferences and workshops around the world. Some of the venues at which Dr. Shefali has presented are: Wisdom 2.0, TEDx, Kellogg Business School, The Dalai Lama Center for Peace and Education, and many more. She has had key collaborations with Goldie Hawn’s MindUp Foundation, Kids in the House and many educational and transformational centers around the world. She also has a private practice where she consults with families and couples. She resides with her husband and daughter in New York. www.drshefali.com Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

The discussion begins with Rodney’s musical biography starting at the age of 9, this early interest in music then transforms into a life calling by the age of 11. Currently, he is in training as a Jungian analyst, and therefore he speaks eloquently about the integration of music and depth psychology. Rodney’s life has provided him the ground to understand how music can give an individual an invitation to consciously and unconsciously explore their creativity, sexuality, and their worldview. Rodney considers his early sexual development through his childhood growing up in West Texas and emphasizes how music provided him a container to hold onto the “life-force” that needed a location for expression. Music eventually could not contain the life-force any longer, and he began searching and expanding his sexuality and his identity. One academic and personal arena of study for Rodney is sexuality, and in particular male sexuality, therefore we consider the modes through which men feel they can and cannot talk about with each other and find means by which to connect. Rodney’s interests are each located around the central theme of intimacy and self-expression – including music, relationship, sexuality, tattoos, depth psychology, and the beard. Rodney Waters is the Scholarship Director for Music Doing Good, a nonprofit based in Houston, Texas that transforms children’s lives through innovative, music-based programming. As a pianist he has performed extensively in Japan and Europe, and in Houston with the Houston Symphony, River Oaks Chamber Orchestra, Da Camera, Musiqa, and St. Cecilia Chamber Music Society. In April 2016, his recording with Curt Thompson of the complete Sonatas for Violin and Piano by American composer Charles Ives was named one of the top 10 recordings of Ives’ music by Gramophone Magazine. Rodney earned his Bachelor and Master of Music degrees in piano performance from the Mannes College of Music in New York, where he studied with Richard Goode. A long-time advocate for the use of art in service of social causes, Rodney has created projects to support local resettlement of refugees through Interfaith Ministries of Greater Houston and HIV prevention programs through AIDS Foundation Houston. In 2016 Rodney composed and recorded music for Jungians Speaking, a DVD series released by Chiron Publications. He is currently in training to be a Jungian Analyst at the International School of Analytical Psychology in Zurich. Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/

Michael works as a Rolfer and therefore works with the body every day; and, he states, “we are not properly introduced to our bodies in this culture.” He designates most of the hours of each day touching people, and the underlying philosophy may surprise you. This episode reminds us all to attend to the form from which we manifest each moment. Michael’s meaning in life is born from attending to people’s body, and his personal story will help you understand how he has become so enlightened by his work on the body as a student of the biochemist, Ida Rolf, Ph.D. Growing up on the East Coast, living on the East Side in New York City in the late 60s, and then moving to California in the 60s opened Michael’s eyes beyond what he had come to know in his traditional upbringing at all male boarding schools and Yale University, wherein he studied Russian literature. From random nights watching a live performance from Lou Reed in the east side of New York City in the late 60s to random encounters with Ram Dass or Alan Watts, Michael has a deep connection with the epicenter of the explosion of American counterculture and the exploration of human consciousness in the late 60s and 70s in California. Michael discusses how Eslen and Ida Rolf were both at the center of his studies of the body and consciousness. Michael’s bio: Michael Laird McIver, Certified Advanced Rolfer Currently in 44th year of practice as a Certified Advanced Rolfer. Rolf Institute of Structural Integration Basic Rolfing Training, 1973 Emmett Hutchins, Instructor Rolf Institute of Structural integration Advanced Rolfing Training, 1974 Dr. Ida P. Rolf, Instructor Rolf Institute Board of Directors, 1993-97 Chairman, Red River Region of the Rolf Institute 1989-92 Massage Therapy Instructor, Texas, 2014 Massage Continuing Education Provider, Texas, 2014 Aston-Patterning Consultants, 1977-78 Applied Rolfing Techniques Judith Aston, Instructor Monterey Peninsula Nursing School, 1971-72 Anatomy, Physiology, and Chemistry Esalen Institute Massage Therapy Staff, 1971-73 Yale University, 1963-67 The Hotchkiss School, 1959-63 Michael's website: http://www.rolfinghoustontx.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week by: Collin Herring http://www.collinherring.com Collin’s music: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/collin-herring/65485822 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

We begin by agreeing that as two “keepers of stories” we often find people sharing with us their private experiences, ones that they often do not share with others. Therefore, we are both in a confident position to make certain characterizations about aspects of the human project that many people have experienced, but few share “out loud.” Each of us identifies the core differences between what people have going on in their lives and what they wish to consciously present to others. We all do this. This conversation, hopefully, will provide the listener with some content to both normalize and challenge the judgment we feel for these thoughts, fantasies, and behaviors. We explore the general absence of healthy sex education beyond biology, including values and pleasure, and discuss how much shame, guilt, & ignorance on the subject matter of sexuality is rooted in the abundance of misinformation and anxiety preventing people from learning about their body, and their partner’s body. Christina discusses her personal history with the origin of her website confidentlovers.com, including how pornography played a part in her development. We further discuss how the consequences of the ubiquity of porn specifically how it has contributed to disrupting our imagination, sexual creativity, & spontaneity. Through listening you will learn that Christina is willing to have conversations that many people are not willing to have in her pursuit to help free people up from the cycle of shame and anxiety around sex and sexuality. Where to reach Christina: www.confidentlovers.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: The Burning Hotels https://www.facebook.com/theburninghotels/ Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

In this week's podcast, Episcopal priest James Derkits and I explore the human need for community as expressed through the way the South Texas island town, Port Aransas, responds to the destruction following Hurricane Harvey. We explore individual and collective trauma and recognize that sometimes people find psychological gold after enduring the darkest of times. We begin this conversation by James vulnerably explaining the journey through his priesthood, which includes a period of doubt. James and I explore Christian theology and define terms ranging from priest and grace to ritual, and James eloquently helps us understand what religion means to him and how he understands the term Christ – James has a broad definition of this term that may signify more than one may think. The episode reframes my understanding of the Christian tradition (it just might not be what you think). James's Bio: I grew up in Silsbee, TX I went to college in San Marcos I'm married to Laura Derkits Eli is our son I'm an Episcopal Priest I live in Port Aransas I'm a musician I love being outdoors I pay attention to my dreams Where to reach James: http://james-derkits.blogspot.com http://www.trinitybythesea.org https://www.facebook.com/TrinitybytheSea/ Music by James: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/buffalo-roam/1129484513 Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/

Today’s conversation begins with Dr. Corbett’s analysis of the limitations of an exclusively biological mode of treating psychological issues. Lionel reframes one’s relationship to emotional symptoms away from the traditional models of modern psychopathology into a mode in which the symptom understood to be a signal for an aspect of life that is in need of attention. He defines complex and archetype, stating that the archetypes are analogous to the laws of physics. Lionel explores Jungian psychology as a psychospiritual therapy. Dr. Corbett offers his interpretation of The Book of Job from a Jungian lens, and he examines his history within Jungian psychology and the theory of psychoanalytical self-psychology. He recognizes the union between the personalitstic traditions (such as Kohut and Freud) and the archetypal traditions (Jung). We discuss consciousness and a few basic differences between dualistic and non-dual thinking. Dr. Corbett circles around the controversial and charged philosophical problem of defining consciousness. Bio: Lionel Corbett received his Medical Degree from the University of Manchester, England, in 1966; served as a military physician; and became a Member of the Royal College of Psychiatrists in 1974. In the USA, he did fundamental research into the biochemistry of the brain; began one of the first programs in the psychology of aging; was a hospital medical director of in-patient psychiatry; trained as a Jungian analyst at the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago 1978-1986; helped found a training program for Jungian analysts in Santa Fe, while carrying on a private practice and teaching psychiatry at the University of New Mexico. Dr. Corbett has studied various spiritual disciplines including Christian and Jewish mysticism, Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, and Yoga and has had a personal meditation practice for 20 years. He now teaches depth psychology at Pacifica Graduate Institute near Santa Barbara, California, where he founded the Psyche and the Sacred program, a highly successful series in its 5th year that integrates spirituality with depth psychology. This program has developed a powerful approach to spirituality that is based on personal experience of the sacred, avoiding all forms of doctrine and dogma. He is the author of 5 books, several training films, and over 40 professional articles. Publications Include: The essay Seduction, Psychotherapy, and the Alchemical Glutinum Mundiin the book Fire in the Stone: The Alchemy of Desire; Psyche and the Sacred: Spirituality Beyond Religion; The Sacred Cauldron: Psychotherapy as a Spiritual Practice; The Religious Function of the Psyche, and Soul in Anguish: Psychotherapeutic Approaches to Suffering. Courses taught in the Jungian and Archetypal Studies Specialization: Depth Psychology & the Sacred: Approaching the Numinous; Introduction to Depth Psychology https://www.pacifica.edu/faculty/lionel-corbett/ www.psycheandthesacred.org Music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/

105: Becca Tarnas – The Imagination and The Red Books of Tolkien & Jung by John Price

Bill provides an autobiographical landscape of his early training and matriculation. Following his history, we begin exploring the limitations of the various therapeutic worldviews. We discuss how psychology and religion have been interwoven, specifically not the psychology of religion, but psychology and religion. Bill describes how the various psychological models illuminate religion. In particular, he references figures such as William James, Sigmund Freud, Abraham Maslow, and Carl Jung, emphasizing how the psychological worldview of these figures influences their understanding of religion. Bill has a way of challenging any worldview and asking questions about how any particular worldview affects how and what one may “see” as a result. Bill calls his approach dialogical whereby individuals are invited to place all of these psychological technologies, and others, into conversation with each other. He desires to bring to light, what he calls, an Ethnopsychospiritualy a view that incorporates and understands that the personal and cultural wisdom in the various religious traditions is inseparable from each tradition. Looking at the models carefully differing between the projection models of psychospiritualities versus recognizing that there is cultural refraction on the light, although there is an objective light. Through the conversation, there is an undertone of attending to how the worldview we adopt can both expand and limit an individual’s perspective unless each of us is conscious of this fact. Bio: William B. Parsons is Professor of Religious Studies at Rice University. He has written and edited several books, including The Enigma of the Oceanic Feeling (Oxford, 1999), Teaching Mysticism (Oxford, 2011), Religion and Psychology: Mapping the Terrain (Routledge, 2001), Mourning Religion (Virginia, 2008), Freud in Dialogue with Augustine: Psychoanalysis, Mysticism, and the Culture of Modern Spirituality (Virginia, 2013) as well as dozens of essays in multiple journals and books. He has served as Chair of the Department of Religious Studies (Rice University), as Director of the Humanities Research Center (Rice University), as Editor (the psychology of religion section) with Religious Studies Review and is Associate Editor of the International Series in the Psychology of Religion. He has been a Fellow at the Martin Marty Center of the University of Chicago and at the Institute for Advanced Studies (IAS) at Hebrew University. Music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/

Episode 5: Religion and Psychology. A conversation with Pittman McGehee In today’s episode, Pittman unpacks the definition of religion and broadens the traditional limiting assumptions many immediately experience in relationship to religion. We discuss how many of the actions that have been in the name of religion are not religious. We begin by defining religion, the philosophy of materialism, psychological wholeness, good and evil, individuation, and the Self. Pittman discusses where religion goes wrong and how the human stewards of the various traditions affect the search for wholeness with human impulses, ideologies, and dominance. He defines spirituality as the deep human longing to transfer the transcendent into the immanent through experience and reflection upon it. We explore the profoundly powerful sacred aspects of human sexuality and the assault by the organize structures and the misinterpretation of each tradition that has been destructive of sexuality. Biography: Pittman became was ordained as a priest in the Episcopal Church in 1969, The Very Reverend J. Pittman McGehee served, for 11 years, as Dean of Christ Church Cathedral, located in the center of downtown Houston. Since moving to Houston in 1980, Mr. McGehee has been in demand as a lecturer and speaker in the fields of psychology and religion. He lectures regularly at the C. G. Jung Center and has published two papers through that Center: “Water as a Symbol of Transformation” (1985), and “The Healing Wound and the Wounded Healer” (1986). He is a regular book reviewer for The Living Church. Dr. McGehee has held many distinguished lectureships, including the 1987 Harvey Lecture at the Episcopal Seminary of the Southwest in Austin, where he received an honorary Doctorate of Divinity; the 1988 Perkins Lecture in Wichita Falls; the 1990 Woodhull Lectures in Dayton, Ohio, and the 1991 St. Luke’s Lectures in Birmingham. He was the 1994 Rockwell visiting Theologian at the University of Houston and 1996 Carolyn Fay Lecturer in Analytical Psychology also at the University of Houston. He is an Adjunct Lecturer at the University of Texas, an Adjunct Instructor at Saybrook University, and a Faculty Member of the C. G. Jung Institute in Zurich, Switzerland. His books are: The Invisible Church: Finding Spirituality Where You Are, Praeger Press, 2008; Raising Lazarus: The Science of Healing the Soul, 2009; Words Made Flesh: Selected Sermons by The Very Reverend J. Pittman McGehee, D.D., 2011; The Paradox of Love, (available 10/1/2011); and Slender Threads: An Interview with Robert Johnson (DVD). In addition to his teaching and prose writing, Mr. McGehee is known for his poetry. His work has been chosen for the juried Houston Poetry Fest (1985, 1987, 1988), and his poems “Ash Wednesday,” “Pegasus,” and “Semination” were published in the Poetry Fest Anthology. His poems also have appeared in the Cimarron Review, the Anglican Theological Review, the St. Luke’s Journal, In Art magazine, Cite magazine, Windhover, and New Texas magazine. In 1991, Dr. McGehee resigned from Christ Church Cathedral to become the director of The Institute for the Advancement of Psychology and Spirituality. The Institute joins the disciplines of psychology and religion by exploring the concept that mental health comes with the integration of the biological, psychological, and spiritual elements of the human condition. In 1996, the C. G. Jung Institute of Dallas awarded him a diploma in Analytical Psychology. In addition, he is currently in private practice as a priest/psychoanalyst and teacher/lecturer. www.jpittmanmcgehee.com Music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/

Episode 4: A life worth living. A conversation with James Hollis In this episode, Jim and I discuss how elements of his personal history positioned his interest in depth psychology specifically and learning in general. Jim defines depth psychology and discusses how a relationship to one’s inner world orients one’s self to meaning and purpose. We explore how the relationship to a vocation or calling will either enhance or limit each of our life experience. He frames the price of being separated from one’s inner voice as “the problem of our time.” We discuss how the poet’s life and interest investigate the cosmos and psyche, as Jim believes that the poet is depth psychology. We investigate the difference between learning and thinking and evaluate how making a living and making money have contributed to the unbalancing of our culture. We explore the imagination and reason as working together to image possibilities. We frame addiction as a consequence of ego consciousness clinging to a management system believed to palliate the suffering of living. He eloquently identifies the core struggle shared amongst men and the related consequences of this struggle. We converse about the nature of transcendence and how attending to our symptoms, dreams, and fantasies place us into relationship with mysteries beyond our conscious sense of “I.” James Hollis, Ph. D. was born in Springfield, Illinois, and graduated from Manchester University in 1962 and Drew University in 1967. He taught Humanities 26 years in various colleges and universities before retraining as a Jungian analyst at the Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland (1977-82). He is presently a licensed Jungian analyst in private practice in Washington, D.C. He served as Executive Director of the Jung Educational Center in Houston, Texas for many years and now is Executive Director of the Jung Society of Washington. He is a retired Senior Training Analyst for the Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts, was first Director of Training of the Philadelphia Jung Institute, and is Vice-President Emeritus of the Philemon Foundation. Additionally, he is a Professor of Jungian Studies for Saybrook University of San Francisco/Houston. He lives with his wife Jill, an artist and retired therapist, in Washington, DC. Together they have three living children and eight grand-children. He has written a total of fifteen books and over fifty articles. The books have been translated into Swedish, Russian, German, Spanish, French, Hungarian, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian, Korean, Finnish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Farsi, Japanese, Greek, Chinese, and Czech. www.jameshollis.net Music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com

Niki is an expert on the ascetic John Cassian and the French philosopher Michel Foucault. In this episode Niki and I discuss her newest book, Sites of the Ascetic Self. Niki is most interested in daily practices of discipline that can help and enable individuals to open to certain forms of self-transformation including transformation of our bodies, our emotions and our relation to other people. She discusses how her history places her into relationship with her current areas of study. We are shaped as subjects in this world, therefore one of Niki’s core questions is: how can we become self-shaping and self-forming? Looking at the kinds of daily practices we each live and how those practices influence and inform our reality. We explore the value of recognizing the various interpretations and agencies that are present in every moment. We define the terms such as ethics, ascetic, and others. We discuss the modern understanding of mental health and the progressive pathologizing of one’s relationship with the voices, urges, and powers formed within one’s “head” or self. She is interested in the construction of one’s character as a way of life. Niki Clements works at the disciplinary intersection between the history of Christian practice, philosophy of religion, and religious ethics. She specializes in Christian asceticism and mysticism in late antiquity, highlighting its resources for thinking through contemporary ethical formation and conceptions of the self. She is currently completing the first comprehensive treatment of the ethical thought of John Cassian (c.360-c.435), a late antique Catholic architect of Latin monasticism doctrinally marginalized for his optimistic views on human agency. Engaging Michel Foucault's late work on ethics-which sees Cassian as a crucial inaugurator of modern disciplinary subjectivity-she critiques the conceptual limitations that Foucault's philosophical categories impose on his reading of Cassian, late antique Christianity, and the study of religion. She also pursues a transdisciplinary approach with cognitive neuroscience to argue that ethical formation integrates consciousness, embodiment, and affectivity. She is the volume editor for Mental Religion: The Brain, Cognition, and Culture, as part of the forthcoming Macmillan Interdisciplinary Handbooks. http://rice.academia.edu/NikiClements Specialization: History of Catholic thought and practice, Christianity in late antiquity, asceticism and mysticism, religious ethics, philosophy of religion, theories and methods in the study of religion, religion, and science Academic History: Ph.D., Brown University, Religion and Critical Thought, 2014 M.T.S., Harvard Divinity School, 2007 B.A., Sarah Lawrence College, 2003 Music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com

Have you ever wondered if someone can help you understand ways to think about the wild and, at times, frightening fantasies that we all experience throughout our lives (and sometimes on a daily basis)? Do we have fantasies, or do they have us? In this episode, Sean Fitzpatrick and I discuss the imagination and how the way each of us interprets those images and affects that seem to emerge from places whose point of origin are unknown can often influence our daily lives. From Sean’s perspective the attitude that we take to our fantasies is so important that he refers to this attitude as the ethics of the imagination; and he applies this to fantasies ranging from the murderous and the sexual to the mundane. Within this conversation Sean defines the terms “Jungian”, fantasy, imagination, spiritual, and ethical. Sean Fitzpatrick, PhD, LPC, holds master’s degrees in religious studies (Rice University) and clinical psychology (University of Houston – Clear Lake) and received his doctorate in psychology through Saybrook University’s program in Jungian studies. Sean is a psychotherapist in private practice and has been employed at The Jung Center since 1997. He has been an instructor at The Jung Center since 2001, and he lectures locally and nationally on a range of contemporary social and psychological issues. Learn more about Sean and The Houston Jung Center at: http://www.junghouston.org Music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com

In this episode, Jeff and I discuss the nature of religion and secularism. We explore the need for culture to create a more generous science that includes experiences that are currently outside of the boundaries of the modern sciences. We define terms such as religion, belief, and gnosis, all in service of gaining a deeper understanding of the narratives that fuel and drive much of the human need to understand our lived experience. Jeffrey J. Kripal holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University. He is the author of Comparing Religions (Wiley-Blackwell, 2014); Mutants and Mystics: Science Fiction, Superhero Comics, and the Paranormal (Chicago, 2011); Authors of the Impossible: The Paranormal and the Sacred (Chicago, 2010); Esalen: America and the Religion of No Religion (Chicago, 2007); The Serpent’s Gift: Gnostic Reflections on the Study of Religion (Chicago, 2007); Roads of Excess, Palaces of Wisdom: Eroticism and Reflexivity in the Study of Mysticism (Chicago, 2001); and Kali’s Child: The Mystical and the Erotic in the Life and Teachings of Ramakrishna (Chicago, 1995). He has also co-edited volumes with: Sudhir Kakar, on the history, science, psychology, and analysis of psychical experiences, Seriously Strange: Thinking Anew about Psychical Experiences (Viking, 2012); Wouter Hanegraaff on eroticism and esotericism, Hidden Intercourse: Eros and Sexuality in the History of Western Esotericism (University of Amsterdam Press, 2008); Glenn W. Shuck on the history of Esalen and the American counterculture, On the Edge of the Future: Esalen and the Evolution of American Culture (Indiana, 2005); Rachel Fell McDermott on a popular Hindu goddess, Encountering Kali: In the Margins, at the Center, in the West (California, 2003); G. William Barnard on the ethical critique of mystical traditions, Crossing Boundaries: Essays on the Ethical Status of Mysticism (Seven Bridges, 2002); and T.G. Vaidyanathan of Bangalore, India, on the dialogue between psychoanalysis and Hinduism, Vishnu on Freud’s Desk: A Reader in Psychoanalysis and Hinduism (Oxford, 1999). His present areas of writing and research include the articulation of a New Comparativism within the study of religion that will put “the impossible” back on the table again, a robust and even conversation between the sciences and the humanities, and the mapping of an emergent mythology or “Super Story” within paranormal communities and individual visionaries. Learn more at: www.thesacredspeaks.com

Interview begins @ 4:00 In this episode of "The Sacred Speaks," embark on an exploratory journey with Dr. Stephen Aizenstat, diving into the depths of the inner self. Our dialogue begins with the concept of the inner journey, ignited by curiosity, as seen through the lens of Dr. Aizenstat. A masterful storyteller, he intertwines compelling narratives from both his personal and professional realms, offering a glimpse into his distinctive worldview. Our conversation reveals the notion of 'genius' residing in each individual, transcending the bounds of the extraordinary. Dr. Aizenstat shares enlightening stories that demonstrate how engaging with our imagination can propel us beyond mere rationality, leading us into a life imbued with soulfulness and fulfillment. We confront the nature of resistance, both within ourselves and in others, discussing how a nondefensive, curious approach can pave the way for deeper understanding and personal growth. Dr. Aizenstat's methodology, marked by compassion and openness, provides a novel perspective on personal evolution. As we delve further, we examine the influence of depth psychology on Dr. Aizenstat's work, especially his interaction with inner figures and the transformative power of genuine curiosity. He champions a co-creative journey with these inner entities, illustrating how exploration and engagement can alleviate discomfort and enrich our inner world. A memorable segment of our discussion highlights Dr. Aizenstat's encounter with Joseph Campbell at Esalen, marking the beginning of a significant friendship. He recounts a fascinating story about Campbell's meeting with George Lucas, a pivotal moment that shaped the narrative of Star Wars, exemplifying the exploration of shadow and archetypes. Additionally, we explore the personification of emotions and the inner world, a central element of Dr. Aizenstat's approach. The episode culminates with an insightful discussion on the four quadrants of his Creative Matrix: Earth, Mind, Machine, and Universe, shedding light on the interplay of these elements in our lives. https://dreamtending.com Bio: Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder and Chancellor Emeritus of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology and has devoted his life to understanding the profound wisdom and healing power that exist within each of us and has helped thousands of students, individuals, businesses, and organizations through the techniques revealed in The Imagination Matrix. His work centers on the insight that, through our dreams and imagination, we can access limitless creativity, innovation, improved relationships, and, ultimately, our human potential. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 9:25 Father Richard Rohr explores his experiences with men and men's work. Growing up in a Catholic seminary surrounded by males, he became acutely aware of both the beautiful and neurotic facets of masculinity. His time working in an Albuquerque jail exposed him to the ways men suffer and express their pain, which deepened his understanding and prompted reflection on male-centric theories. This allowed him to better address the unique sufferings faced by men. He emphasizes the importance of healthy male role models for men to emulate, ensuring they engage with the world with integrity. Drawing parallels, he narrates a fascinating tale of aggressive young elephants in Africa that were pacified when elder bull elephants were introduced as positive male influences. The episode touches on the intricacies of the masculine archetype, navigating the sensitive conversation surrounding masculinity and femininity, and the unification of separated entities. Father Rohr elaborates on the four central male archetypes: King, Warrior, Lover, & Magician. The discussion then shifts to rites of passage, highlighting how certain traditions may miss the essence of such rites. Father Rohr points out that unlike females, who undergo a natural rite of passage with the onset of menstruation, males lack an equivalent biological marker, necessitating cultural rites to signal their transition to manhood. The conversation examines the significance of rites of passage in balancing the spirit and soul, the importance of shadow dynamics in personal development, and the paradoxical nature of a religion centered around divine incarnation yet suppressive of bodily pleasures. The conversation doesn't shy away from controversial topics, discussing the Catholic Church's history with pedophilia, the systemic issues that might contribute to such atrocities, and the cyclical nature of sin and redemption. This comprehensive discussion offers invaluable insights into masculinity, spirituality, and the complexities of human nature. Bio: Franciscan friar and ecumenical teacher, Father Richard Rohr bears witness to the deep wisdom of Christian mysticism and traditions of action and contemplation. Founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation, Father Richard teaches how God’s grace guides us to our birthright as beings made of Divine Love. He is the author of numerous books, including The Universal Christ, The Wisdom Pattern, Just This, and Falling Upward. www.cac.org Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

102: Connie Zweig – Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path by John Price

Interview begins @ 4:37 Join your host John Price as he welcomes Miriam Volat, the co-director of The RiverStyx Foundation, co-director of the Indigenous Medicine Conservation Fund, and Executive Director of IPCI. Together, they engage in an eye-opening discussion that bridges the gap between ecology, indigenous traditions, and the Sacred. Episode Overview In this episode, we kick things off by learning about The RiverStyx Foundation, discussing its mission and vision for a more connected world. Miriam shares her extensive background in ecology, with a special focus on soil science. She reveals how her work in ecology has been a gateway to explore indigenous traditions, particularly entheogenic healing practices. Miriam argues that a deeper, more direct connection with the Sacred can serve as a catalyst to rekindle our relationship with our immediate environment. Key Points • Ecology as a Lens: Miriam explains how her expertise in soil and ecology serves as a unique lens to appreciate and investigate indigenous practices. • The Disconnect: We discuss the alarming separation people experience from their communities, the Earth, and the cultural touchstones that help define them. The absence of methodologies for navigating traumas exacerbates this disconnection. • Rethinking Extractive Models: Miriam and John scrutinize modern, extractive approaches to culture, community, and the Earth, highlighting their unsustainability and the damage they've done. • Colonialism's Impact: A look into how colonialism rejects the importance of context in understanding our environment, history, and relationships. • Cultural Lineage and Connection: Miriam emphasizes the importance of embracing your cultural roots, being aware of your environment, and valuing the connections you currently possess. • Consumerism vs Community: Both guests concur on the suffering caused when our inherent need for community and culture is supplanted by consumerism and symptom management. • Intellectual Property and Healing: The episode challenges the concept of patenting natural compounds, molecules, and healing processes, arguing that these should be communal rather than proprietary. • Death and Compostable Toilets: Borrowing from her background in ecology, Miriam discusses death and environmentally sustainable practices, including compostable toilets. • Sacred Medicines and Responsibility: The conversation wraps up with a discussion on how these sacred medicines are not only rites but also responsibilities that make us more aware of what we bring into the world. Bio: NON-PROFIT DIRECTOR Miriam Volat M.S. Co-Director of Riverstyx Foundation & Indigenous Medicine Conservation Fund, Executive Director of IPCI, is an educator, organizer, facilitator and ecologist with a passion for soils and nutrient cycles. She works Nationally and Internationally to increase health in all systems. She is dedicated to the biocultural conservation of Peyote and other sacred medicines supported by the IMC Fund, and works in any way she can to ensure the conservation of these medicines for Indigenous communities and their precious ways of life. As a mom, she is fortunate her daughter, Cora, also supports her work. https://www.riverstyxfoundation.org https://imc.fund https://www.ipci.life Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

The interview begins @ 6:24 In this enlightening conversation with Dr. James Hollis, renowned Jungian analyst, we dive deep into the psychic underpinnings of our religious traditions and explore the profound concept of the soul. Using Jung's understanding of God as a starting point, we traverse the labyrinth of depth psychology, examining not religious theology but the spiritual essence embedded within our psyche. Dr. Hollis challenges preconceived notions of Western healing approaches, underscoring the importance of addressing long-term developmental tasks contributing to our life's suffering and our existential quest for meaning. We probe into the power of choice, its pivotal role in harmonizing our inner and outer worlds, and the necessity of viewing our lives through a transpersonal lens. In a contemplative reflection on his own life and the influence of Jungian theory, Dr. Hollis encourages us all to engage in a deeper dialogue with our lives, acknowledging the humbling realization that we aren't truly in control. Our discussion pivots to the human propensity for constructing theology, culture, and structures as conduits to the mystery of existence, bearing the psychological imprints of their originators. We navigate the intricate dynamics of resistance within the relationship between ego and the unconscious, emphasizing our responsibility for the choices we make. The existential query is central to our exploration: "What stirs your spirit to evolve and redefine your life?" We touch upon cultural sickness, institutional failure, and the potential for growth within tradition, culminating in a discourse on gender fluidity, the impact of consumerism, and the essence of a truly healing analysis. This exploration offers listeners the tools to navigate towards their own 'true north', fostering a stronger connection with their intuitive inner life. Join us as we transcend the diversions of popular culture, and dive into the depths of our collective psyche. Bio: James Hollis, Ph. D., was born in Springfield, Illinois, and graduated from Manchester University in 1962 and Drew University in 1967. He taught Humanities 26 years in various colleges and universities before retraining as a Jungian analyst at the Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland (1977-82). He is presently a licensed Jungian analyst in private practice in Washington, D.C. He served as Executive Director of the Jung Educational Center in Houston, Texas for many years and now was Executive Director of the Jung Society of Washington until 2019, and now serves on the JSW Board of Directors. He is a retired Senior Training Analyst for the Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts, was first Director of Training of the Philadelphia Jung Institute, and is Vice-President Emeritus of the Philemon Foundation. Additionally, he is a Professor of Jungian Studies for Saybrook University of San Francisco/Houston. He lives with his wife Jill, an artist and retired therapist, in Washington, DC. Together they have three living children and eight grand-children. He has written a total of eighteen books, which have been translated into Swedish, Russian, German, Spanish, French, Hungarian, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian, Korean, Finnish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Farsi, Japanese, Greek, Chinese, Serbian, Latvian, Ukranian and Czech. Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 4:00 In this episode, we explore the enriching journey of Bea Gonzalez, an accomplished novelist, and facilitator of a depth-oriented women's collective. Known for her innate ability to weave stories, Bea intertwines feminine wisdom with a holistic approach to understanding the world, as demonstrated in her widely acclaimed work on sophiacycles.com. Our conversation starts with Bea's early dreams of professional writing, a passion that has blossomed into several published novels with Harper Collins and beyond. We investigate the significance of writing as active imagination, taking cues from Jung's Red Book. Bea presents the intriguing notion that everyone should write a novel, an exercise in self-exploration and a canvas to observe the interactions of our inner personalities. Drawing from Jungian psychology, Bea highlights the value of this framework as a lens to perceive reality. Its influence manifests in her personal growth and resonates powerfully within the groups she leads. As we navigate through the intricate labyrinth of Jung’s Collected Works and post-Jungian writers, Bea emphasizes writing as not merely a craft but a spiritual path. We discuss the potency of storytelling, the exploration of the self through narratives, and the harmonious dance of the masculine and feminine. Engaging with the profound insights of Iain McGilchrist, we uncover the junctures where his work converges with Jung's philosophy. The dialogue evolves to encompass topics such as the inner struggles we all face, the societal impacts of shadow projection in politics, and the significance of the multiplicity of the pantheon versus the social value of a monotheistic god. With her women's groups as a platform for meaningful conversations, Bea eloquently underscores the importance of discussing and writing about these explorations, fostering a vibrant exchange of ideas that spur personal and collective growth. Tune in for a profound exploration into the heart of depth psychology. Bio: Béa Gonzalez is a writer, lecturer, and educator. Her first two novels were published in Canada by HarperCollins and seven other countries [the UK, USA, Spain, Germany, Holland and Serbia]. Her second novel, The Mapmaker's Opera, was adapted into a musical by Kevin Purcell which was featured at the 2014 New York Musical Theatre Festival. She is also the founder of SophiaCycles, a project aimed at teaching metaphorical thinking through an examination of classical works, fairy tales and myths and can be found on YouTube, Twitter and Instagram @sophiacycles. Invocation is her third novel. https://www.sophiacycles.com www.esalen.org Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 3:29 Join us for a profound exploration of spiritual emptiness with Thomas Moore. Our conversation traverses the concept of kenosis, a process of spiritual emptying present in both Greek antiquity and Eastern philosophies. We challenge the notion of a 'purpose-driven' life, suggesting instead a life led by openness and spontaneity. Thomas endorses a religious attitude, permitting divine 'angels' to guide us, rather than our ego. We delve into the mystery of God, advocating for an open-minded approach to his ineffable nature. Thomas shares his personal journey, which included joining the monastery at a young age, and provides his insights into the image of Christ as it pertains to emptiness. We also discuss soul and spirit cosmology, the parallels between Dionysus and Christ, as well as the influences of thinkers like James Hillman and Carl Jung. We further examine how music can serve as a model for meaning-making, and the significance of 'emptying' a romantic relationship from egoic control. This conversation offers a fresh perspective on life's enigmas, inviting listeners to journey with us through these contemplative mysteries. Bio: Thomas Moore is the author of The Eloquence of Silence and 24 other books about bringing soul to our personal lives and culture, including the #1 New York Times bestseller Care of the Soul. He has been a Catholic monk and university professor and is also a psychotherapist influenced mainly by C. G. Jung and James Hillman. His work brings together spirituality, mythology, depth psychology, and the arts, emphasizing the importance of images and imagination. https://www.thomasmooresoul.com Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Esalen Class: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-jungs-red-book-102323 WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com

Interview begins @ 3:30 In Episode 97 of The Sacred Speaks, Mary Cosimano begins with the question, "What is suffering?". Renowned for her heart-led approach, Mary aims to connect those she works with to their heart centers, facilitating a deeper understanding of their own experiences. Throughout our discussion, Mary shares her personal encounters with suffering, particularly as a professional in her scientific network and system. She highlights the constraints and limitations inherent within her field's foundational principles, which often hinder expansive thinking and inspiration. Mary also talks about her journey joining the Johns Hopkins Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research, shedding light on what prepared her for becoming a part of this vibrant community. We further examine the foundation of the psilocybin therapy process at Hopkins, including dosage, preparation, and procedural aspects. Mary emphasizes the importance of setting genuine intentions when individuals choose psychedelics as part of their healing journey. Since its inception, Hopkins has been at the forefront of psychedelic therapies, collaborating closely with the FDA to explore the efficacy of these natural compounds in contexts such as palliative care, treatment-resistant depression, eating disorders, and trauma healing. In this illuminating dialogue, Mary discloses the remarkable benefits of psilocybin interventions, including a notable depression study where subjects witnessed a 50% reduction in treatment-resistant depression symptoms. Our conversation broadens to encompass themes of love, safety, fear, laughter, play, and joy as potent forces for healing and transformation. We conclude with thought-provoking insights into forgiveness and death, rounding off a deeply profound exploration of human suffering and healing. Bio: Mary Cosimano, LMSW, has been with the Department of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research since 2000 when they began research with psilocybin. She is currently a Psychedelic Session Facilitator and has served as Director of Clinical Services and as a research coordinator. She has been involved with all the psilocybin studies and has conducted over 500 study sessions including Club Drug studies with Salvia Divinorum and Dextromethorphan. Mary has trained post doctorate fellows, faculty, clinicians, and research assistants as guides and taught individual and group meditation to breast cancer patients in a Johns Hopkins research study. She is a teacher and mentor at California Institute to Integral Studies for their Psychedelic-Assisted Therapies and Research (CPTR) certificate program and conducts trainings for therapists in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. In 2003 she started a meditation group for employees in her department. She also has 15 years of experience with direct patient care as a hospice volunteer. https://hopkinspsychedelic.org https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/research/psychedelics-research.html Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins: 5:03 In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, we explore the profound spiritual and social dimensions of gender with Rev. Cynthia Brix and Dr. Will Keepin, pioneers in the field of gender reconciliation and equity. Cynthia, an interfaith minister and wellness expert, and Will, a former quantum physicist turned healer and spiritual seeker, share their journeys and the transformative power of their work. Cynthia discusses her path from atheism to a dynamic spirituality grounded in activism and human relationships. She reflects on how her experiences and education led her to focus on bridging divides through dialogue and connection. Will, drawing from his background in quantum physics and mysticism, discusses the distinction between Newtonian and quantum physics, landing on what he refers to as an "epistemology of the heart," a way of knowing that transcends reason and embraces the interconnectedness of the universe. Will notes that his crisis of science was related to the conclusions of many radical scientists who determined that there is a deeper register to reality that is not subject to our scientific instruments, highlighting some of the limitations of our modern sciences. We discussed both of their understanding of spirituality, defining the concept and exploring how practice transforms our lived experience. Together, they explore duality and nonduality, the integration of spiritual wisdom with social engagement, emphasizing the healing potential of personal storytelling in their workshops. Cynthia and Will envision a future where a new civilization, built on reverence and understanding, can emerge through this powerful work. Bio: Dr. William Keepin and Rev. Cynthia Brix are co-founders of Gender Equity and Reconciliation International, an organization that has led 280 intensive trainings across twelve countries to foster healing and reconciliation among people of all genders. Cynthia, an ordained interfaith minister and Co-Director of the Satyana Institute, brings a diverse background in spiritual leadership and social justice. She holds an M.Div. from Iliff School of Theology and a double M.A. in wellness management and applied gerontology. Cynthia has led interfaith retreats and organized international conferences on spirituality and gender equity, including one that brought together women spiritual leaders from Buddhist, Christian, and Hindu traditions. Together, they have developed a transformative method for gender reconciliation, emphasizing compassion, deep listening, and mutual respect. Will, a former mathematical physicist with a PhD in applied mathematics, is also a scholar in sustainable energy, global warming, and the intersection of science and spirituality. He has testified before European and Australian parliaments and the U.S. House of Representatives and is a co-founder of the Satyana Institute. A seasoned spiritual practitioner, Will holds multiple degrees in East-West psychology and mathematical physics, and is the author of several books, including Divine Duality and Belonging to God. https://www.genderreconciliationinternational.org/ Link to Houston workshop: https://www.thecenterforhas.com/event/the-alchemy-of-reconciliation-a-workshop-for-women-men-healing-across-genders/ Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 3:53 In this enlightening episode of The Sacred Speaks, host Dr. John Price converses with Dr. Rachel Harris, who shares insights from her latest book, "Swimming in the Sacred: Wisdom from the Psychedelic Underground". Dr. Harris illuminates her interview process with 15 veteran female guides from the psychedelic underground, revealing their enduring commitment to the spiritual over the medicalized use of these compounds. The discussion delves into the reasons these guides remain in the underground despite societal changes and legalization, attributing it to their belief in the greater spiritual and religious value of psychedelics. The disparity between psychotherapy and the spiritually-oriented approach these guides embody is examined, with Dr. Harris emphasizing that the spiritual process stands alone, independent yet not exclusive of therapy. The conversation explores the ontology of the visionary or “unseen others”, often present in psychedelic experiences, the transformative power of psychedelics, the voices of doubly silenced women, the unique bond women share with these medicines, and the relevance of cultural frameworks for the sacred. They also touch on the importance of selecting an ethical guide, concerns about the healer's ethical wellbeing, and the profound link between death and the psychedelic experience, and the importance and nature of integration for psychedelic process. Bio: Dr. Rachel Harris is a respected psychologist, prolific author, and eminent figure in the realm of psychospiritual development. She spent thirty-five years in private practice, focusing on individuals seeking psychospiritual growth. Rachel has an impressive research career, having received a National Institutes of Health New Investigator's Award and publishing over forty scientific studies in peer-reviewed journals. She has also shared her expertise with Fortune 500 companies. Rachel participated in the 1968 Esalen Residential Program, an intensive six-month meditation and bodywork course. She also studied Structural Awareness, a movement system founded on Dr. Ida Rolf's Structural Integration. This awareness of body consciousness deeply influences her psychotherapeutic approach. In the mid-1980s to early 2000s, Rachel facilitated workshops at esteemed institutions like Omega Institute, NY, and Esalen Institute, CA. She is the author of "Twenty Minute Retreats," which details the exercises she taught in her workshops. A serendipitous encounter with ayahuasca in Costa Rica in 2005 sparked Rachel's interest in the therapeutic potential of this medicine. This led to a three-year research project, culminating in "A Study of Ayahuasca Use in North America," and her influential book "Listening to Ayahuasca: New Hope for Depression, Addiction, PTSD, and Anxiety." She has recently authored "Swimming in the Sacred: Wisdom from the Psychedelic Underground." https://www.swimminginthesacred.com Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

95: Deborah D.E.E.P. Mouton – Black Chameleon: Memory, Womanhood, and Myth by John Price

Interview begins @ 6:02 In this episode of The Sacred Speak podcast, we explore the potential of the Christian church as a sanctuary for psychedelic healing. Our guests, Hunt and Jessica, seek to reconnect the worlds of psychedelics and organized religion, addressing the misinformation that has driven them apart for the past 50 years. They assert that the church must prioritize healing and work to rectify the damage caused by this disconnect. Throughout our discussion, we delve into the concept of the church as a nurturing environment for fostering profound experiences, self-love, and personal growth through the exploration of one's relationship with their body and the importance of firsthand experiences. We also lay the groundwork for defining a "psychedelic Christian" and how this integration could lead to a more comprehensive understanding of how a divine encounter can be paired with the Christian faith. Recurring themes in this conversation include social justice within the psychedelic movement, the democratization of psychedelics, the significance of mystical experiences, embracing one's true self within small community groups, the power of honesty and truth in community settings, the church's role in healing, and the experiences of people of color within psychedelic communities. Join us as we examine this thought-provoking and transformative topic. Bio: Hunt Priest is a priest in The Episcopal Church and the founding Executive Director of Ligare: A Christian Psychedelic Society, a non-profit network of Christian leaders educating themselves and those they lead about the intersection of open-hearted Christianity and the Psychedelic renaissance. A participant in a psilocybin study in early 2016, he had two life-changing mystical experiences under the care of a research team. His encounters with psilocybin opened him to the healing and consciousness-raising power of psychedelic medicines and changed the landscape of his work. Hunt believes the healing power of psychedelics should be in the toolkits of all who are healers of bodies, minds, and souls and can’t wait to be part of providing access for legal, safe, and guided experiences in a Christian setting. In April 2021 Hunt took an extended break from full-time parish ministry to expand his priesthood out into the emerging psychedelic landscape. Jessica Felix Romero has over 16 years of experience in social justice advocacy, organizing, and communications. With a doctorate in conflict analysis and resolution, she integrates holistic system analysis and transformative design to help nonprofits advance social change. She is Vice President & Chief Strategy and Impact Officer at Sojourners, a faith-inspired nonprofit that works with Christians to put their faith into action in the passionate pursuit of social justice, peace, and environmental stewardship. Jessica loves all things about food and spirituality — her pioneering doctoral research in El Salvador documents the transformational possibilities of conflict-resolution oriented food systems that feed people and nurture peace. She is a student of somatic writing and practitioner of embodied leadership. Her current work explores the intersections of spirituality, ancestral wisdom, psychedelics, and Christianity. www.ligare.org www.sojo.net Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 6:17 In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, we delve into the multifaceted world of magic, exploring its neurological, spiritual, and cultural aspects. Dr. Bever, provides insights and expertise throughout our discussion. We begin with the question, "what is magic?" and Dr. Bever offers a definition of magic and shamanism, setting the stage for the rest of the conversation. As we discuss the interplay between magic and popular beliefs, including the rational and irrational, we examine how these shape our understanding of the world. We explore the impact of Descartes's ideas on dreams and dualism, and how they have influenced our worldviews and ways of thinking. Touching on the concept of suppressed knowledge in the context of magic, we delve into how it has been perceived historically. We further investigate the role of alternate states of consciousness in witchcraft trials and the blurred lines between religion and magic. Analyzing the theory of mind from a rationalistic perspective, we discuss how it relates to the controllable aspects of religion. We then examine the value and potential pitfalls associated with the concept of "experience" in religious contexts. Exploring the relationship between power dynamics and the practice of magic in society, we consider the impact of population size on the development and evolution of religious beliefs and practices. We discuss the role of prophets in contemporary religious movements and the challenges they face in today's society. Looking at the resurgence of esotericism and magic in modern times, we inquire into their relevance and significance. Finally, we venture into the world of the paranormal, discussing topics such as poltergeists and the role of narratives in shaping our understanding of truth. Bio: Edward Bever earned a Ph.D. in History from Princeton University and is Professor of History and Director of the School of Professional Studies at SUNY Old Westbury. He specializes in the history of magic and witchcraft; is the author of The Realities of Witchcraft and Popular Magic in Early Modern Europe: Culture, Cognition, and Everyday Life (2008) and co-editor of Magic in the Modern World: Strategies of Repression and Legitimization (2017); contributed chapters to the Oxford Handbook of Witchcraft in Early Modern Europe and Colonial America, The Routledge History of Witchcraft, and Emotions in the History of Witchcraft; and published articles on the topics in The Journal of Interdisciplinary History, the Journal of Social History, and Magic, Ritual, and Witchcraft. Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 5:00 Scholars who investigate paranormal, religious, philosophical, metaphysical, and other similar topics fall under the umbrella of the humanities. However, many professors are hesitant to delve into topics that cannot be explained through empirical data or scientific methods. Cultural historian and scholar of religion at Rice University, Jeff Kripal, has dedicated much of his work to exploring these questions. In his latest book, "The Superhumanities," Kripal argues that the humanities must expand beyond their traditional scope and engage with supernatural and paranormal phenomena that challenge our understanding of what it means to be human. Kripal suggests that the people we revere in the humanities were "weird" and had altered states of consciousness, embodiment, precognitive dreams, out-of-body experiences, and mystical experiences of unity with the cosmos. He argues that these alternate states of consciousness and embodiments were, in fact, the origins of their thinking. To fully understand and appreciate the humanities, Kripal believes we must embrace the strange and eerie in our academic and cultural discussions. In this interview, Kripal discussed his new book and the significance of embracing unconventional phenomena in the humanities. The conversation covers a range of topics, including the fractals of social systems, psychotherapy as a means of adapting to a sick social system, listening to the symbolic communication from experiences of the paranormal, metaphysics and the U.F.O., the beauty of not knowing, Christianity and the paranormal, Christianity as a modernized sociological tribal container, black critical theory, feminist theory, psychoanalytic theory, queer theory, post-colonial theory, & ecocriticism, and gender and the modern world. Overall, Kripal's work emphasizes the need for scholars in the humanities to expand their focus beyond empirical data and scientific methods to explore the strange and mysterious phenomena of life. By doing so, we can gain a deeper understanding of what it means to be human and how we can navigate the complexities of the world around us. Bio: Jeffrey J. Kripal is the Associate Dean of the School of Humanities and holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University, where he chaired the Department of Religion for eight years and helped create the GEM Program, a doctoral concentration in the study of Gnosticism, Esotericism, and Mysticism that is the largest program of its kind in the world. He presently helps direct the Center for Theory and Research at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, where he served as Chair of Board from 2015 to 2020. Jeff is the author or co-author of twelve books, eight of which are with The University of Chicago Press. He has also served as the Editor in Chief of the Macmillan Handbook Series on Religion (ten volumes, 2015-2016). He specializes in the study of extreme religious states and the re-visioning of a New Comparativism, particularly as both involve putting “the impossible” back on the academic table again. He is presently working on a three-volume study of paranormal currents in the history of religions and the sciences for The University of Chicago Press, collectively entitled The Super Story. https://jeffreyjkripal.com Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

91: Richard Rohr– The Universal Christ; ego development, forgiveness, & non-dual consciousness by John Price

Interview begins @ 4:43 The Red Book, also known as Liber Novus, is a manuscript created by Carl Jung between 1914 and 1930. It is a highly personal and symbolic work that documents Jung's exploration of his own psyche through active imagination and dream analysis. The book contains a wealth of material, including paintings and calligraphy, that Jung created as part of his self-exploration, and it is considered to be one of the most important works of Jung's career. The Red Book was not published during Jung's lifetime, but it was eventually edited and published posthumously in 2009. In this episode, Dr. Murray Stein and John discuss the impact of Liber Novus on the study of depth psychology and religion. We begin by exploring the anthology, Jung’s Red Book for Our Time: Searching for Soul under Postmodern Conditions, created and edited by today’s participant, Dr. Stein, and physicist, Dr. Thomas Arzt, who organized over seventy essays contributed to the process by various writers in the community of analytical psychology. We continue with the nature of Jung’s suffering expressed through the process of active imagination, we discuss what Liber Novus has done for the Jungian field, and we continue by identifying the practice of active imagination as the key method for self-knowledge, psychedelics and the unconscious, the ethical obligation following an encounter with the unconscious – whether through dream work, active imagination, psychedelics, incubation, or any other ecstatic experience - depth psychology, the rational and irrational, alchemy and the unconscious, Dr. Stein explains the process of active imagination, mysteries traditions, Orphic tradition, subtle bodies and synchronicity, the encounter with Soul, and integrating the inferior function. Bio: Dr. Stein is a graduate of Yale University (B.A. and M.Div.), the University of Chicago (Ph.D.), and the C.G. Jung Institute-Zurich (Diploma). He is a founding member of the Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts and of the Chicago Society of Jungian Analysts. He has been the president of the International Association for Analytical Psychology (2001-4), and the President of The International School of Analytical Psychology-Zurich (2008-2012). http://murraystein.com Eranos Symposium 2022: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXkVRxhi1xeS3Mwomyoszk4VqO8m-jFwV John’s Esalen Workshop: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-the-red-book-022723 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 8:08 Today Dr. Miles Neale and Dr. John explore “ego death”, and a few issues with this language, we continue discussing the nature of the ego, the Buddhist frame for soul, returning from the mountaintop or a break-through experience, nondualism, Miles reveals several of his transcendent experiences and also a personal experience with death, “cheap” nondualism, addiction to the nondual, spiritual bypassing, grief, experiencing death, trauma and the unconscious, the healing relationship between teacher and student, holding suffering, the ego’s avoidance, guru devotion, pilgrimage, psychedelic experience, sacred journeys, and we finish with Tibetan Buddhism and the infrastructure of the return from the “mountaintop”. Bio: Dr. Miles Neale, PsyD, is a Buddhist psychotherapist in private practice, founder of the Contemplative Studies Program, international speaker, and host of the Wisdom Keeper Podcast. He has taught psychology and meditation at prestigious university hospitals including Harvard, Columbia, and Cornell. Author of Gradual Awakening (Sounds True, 2018) and co-editor of Advances in Contemplative Psychotherapy (Routledge, 2017), Miles is currently writing his next book Return with Elixir: Journey of Conscious Death and Rebirth (Inner Traditions, 2023). With more than twenty years integrating the mind science of Tibetan Buddhism with psychology, trauma research, neuroscience, and mythology, Miles is a forerunner in the emerging field of contemplative psychotherapy, and leads pilgrimages around the Buddhist world. https://www.milesneale.com John’s Esalen Workshop: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-the-red-book-022723 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 4:36 In this episode I meet with Dr. Stephen Gray to discuss his latest book, How Psychedelics Can Help Save The World: Visionary and Indigenous Voices Speak Out. We begin by noting the cultural and individual issues that that psychedelic medicine is positioned to treat, we continue with the ways that we have lost our mythic and symbolic root and religious systems, overpopulation, planetary sickness, the universality of change and transformation, the Dunbar number and social systems, the nature of these reality revealing medicines, explore indigenous traditions as revelatory to the hegemony, healing cultural wounds, cultural dynamics exposed by psychedelic practice, psychedelic capitalism, medical and pharma intervention with psychedelics, the lost Mystery Schools, trusting what is, surrender as an attitude nourished by working with entheogens, and more. Bio: Stephen has been involved in spiritual work and psychedelics for 50 years. This includes more than 20 years as a student and occasional teacher of Tibetan Buddhism; a dozen years actively involved with Native American Church peyote prayer ceremonies; “guest” membership in the ayahuasca-using Santo Daime Church, and experience with a number of other entheogens. He is also the author of Returning to Sacred World: A Spiritual Toolkit for the Emerging Reality, and editor as well as one of 18 contributors to the popular Cannabis and Spirituality: An Explorer’s Guide to an Ancient Plant Spirit Ally. Stephen teaches people about the spiritual benefits of intentional cannabis use and conduct cannabis meditation and sound-journeying ceremonies. Perhaps most relevant to the mission of StephenGray Vision, for the past 10 years, he’s co-organized the influential Spirit Plant Medicine Conference in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. That work has connected him to dozens of remarkable spokespeople on behalf of the skillful understanding and use of psychedelic/entheogenic sacramental medicines. About the book: Exploring the way forward for humanity in the face of unprecedented crisis, more than 25 contributors show how the wisdom of Indigenous peoples and the power of psychedelics can help us enact the radical shift in consciousness necessary to navigate the collapse of the old world order and the birth of a new consciousness centered on awakened-heart interconnectedness. We hear from psychedelic visionaries Christopher Bache, Zoe Helene, Wade Davis, Chris Kilham, Laurel Sugden, and others on the promise of psychedelic medicines for spiritual and healing work. We learn about Indigenous stories to support our transformation from Native American leader Solana Booth, ancestral memory from Grandmother Maria Alice Campos Freire, cannabis’s role in world building from Minelli Eustàcio-Costa, the ritual roots of talking plants from Michael Stuart Ani, and alchemy across the arc of time from shaman Ya’Acov Darling Khan. We also hear from cannabis grower The Dank Duchess; Bruce Damer, a “mystic scientist” working on the question of life’s origins and its future in space; Tyson Yunkaporta, Australian Aboriginal artist and scholar; visionary artist Martina Hoffmann; professor of religious studies G. William Barnard; activist Duane Elgin; Kohenet Rachel Kann, ordained Jewish priestess and ceremonialist; and several other wise leaders for our time. https://www.stephengrayvision.com John’s Esalen Workshop: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-the-red-book-022723 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 5:47 Hermes Trismegistus was believed to be one of the wise men of his time, and a study of his texts reveals, not a general philosophy, but a spiritual path for initiates who seek to achieve gnosis by direct acquaintance of the true nature of reality as we experience it. Dr. Wouter Hanegraaff begins this analysis by guiding us into the four-core dimension of his book, Hermeticism, spirituality, historical imagination, and altered states of knowledge. All of this knowledge circulated through small groups of people beginning in the first century A.D. Wouter explains how he landed a position as The University of Amsterdam chair of Hermeticism, and then began to “map” the field of esoterism, the two poles of his academic interests are Hermeticism and esotericism. We discuss the nature of esotericism, rejected forms of knowledge, monotheism and exclusion, the shadow of the collective, Isaac Newton’s heresy, Western exclusion, nonduality, the experiential nature of spiritual practice, Diotima - the female visionary who taught Socrates, drugs in the ancient world, The East and the irrational, academic ideological orientation to Greek as rational, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of antiquity, gender, the spiritual nature of rebirth, life and death, immortality and “The Flip,” shoutout to Miles Neale and Jeff Kripal, music and the cosmos, tones and chanting, initiation, apprenticeship, magic, therapy, and more. Bio: Wouter J. Hanegraaff is Professor of History of Hermetic Philosophy and Related Currents at the University of Amsterdam, the Netherlands, a member of the Royal Dutch Academy of Arts and Sciences, as well as past President and now honorary member of the European Society for the Study of Western Esotericism. Alongside numerous articles, he is the author of New Age Religion and Western Culture: Esotericism in the Mirror of Secular Thought (Leiden 1996/Albany 1998); Lodovico Lazzarelli (1447-1500): The Hermetic Writings and Related Documents (Tempe 2005; with Ruud M. Bouthoorn); Swedenborg, Oetinger, Kant: Three Perspectives on the Secrets of Heaven (West Chester 2007); Esotericism and the Academy: Rejected Knowledge in Western Culture (Cambridge 2012); and Western Esotericism: A Guide for the Perplexed (London 2013). He has (co)edited eight collective volumes, including the 1200-page Dictionary of Gnosis and Western Esotericism (Leiden 2005) and Hidden Intercourse: Eros and Sexuality in the History of Western Esotericism (New York 2011; with Jeffrey J. Kripal). His most recent monograph Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity is forthcoming with Cambridge University Press in 2022. His current projects are focused on the history of consciousness in German Idealism and Romanticism, and the role of the imagination in Western culture. https://www.wouterjhanegraaff.net Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Interview begins @ 3:11 In this episode, I sit down with Barry Taylor to explore the intersections of rock 'n' roll, counterculture, and spirituality. Barry shares his early experiences in the vibrant world of music and discusses how these experiences opened up a new language for understanding the invisible aspects of our world. Highlights of this episode include: • Music as a Gateway: Barry and I explore how music acts as a symbolic language that helps articulate the invisible, shaping our perception of the mystical. • The Famous Quote Explained: Barry elucidates the quote famously referenced by Pete Holmes, discussing how the invisible world is like a blanket we lay to give shape to what we cannot see. • Forensic Faith and Fluid Reality: We dive into the challenges of making spirituality overly concrete and discuss the benefits of embracing the fluid nature of reality. • Religion as Interpretive Framework: Barry articulates how religion should be approached as a framework for interpreting reality, rather than a rigid truth. • Transgression and Kindness: We discuss how simple acts of kindness can be transgressive in a culture that often overlooks them. • Culture, Tattoos, and Taboos: We examine how tattoos and fashion challenge cultural norms and serve as powerful expressions of individual identity. • The Digital as Divine: Barry makes a compelling argument that our technological advancements have taken on a divine-like role in society, shaping our responses to societal challenges and the concept of otherness. Closing Thoughts: As we wrap up, Barry offers insights into the future role of technology in spirituality and the potential illusions of growth in our digital age. Bio: Barry Taylor lives and works in London, having returned to the U.K. after many years in Los Angeles. He has committed his life to following his curiosities, which have taken many forms including music, fashion, art, religion, and academia. His interests primarily lie in the areas of religion, theology, and philosophy, particularly exploring how cultural shifts reshape our understanding of what it means to be human, our interactions with others, and our grappling with fundamental questions about human existence and ultimate meaning. His wide variety of interests currently converge around the impact of technology on society and culture. Taylor teaches for an online graduate platform, the Global Centre for Advanced Studies (GCAS), and writes extensively on his Patreon page (patreon.com/barrytaylor). He also engages with the complexities of contemporary life and shares his insights on Instagram (@ukbloke). https://www.patreon.com/barrytaylor Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 6:31 We begin with a discussion of Sean’s shift of consciousness during a psychedelic experience at a young age wherein he could map his experience onto what the traditions of chaos theory and Aldous Huxley’s perennial philosophy explained. Following this experience and at the suggestion of a professor of mysticism, Sean followed the thread to help with his integration. With a deep history as a psychonaut combined with Sean’s interest is in music and pop culture he therefore approaches the material of psychedelic experience from a different lens than one that we hear from traditional academia. Sean integrated his personal experimentation in both magic and psychedelics into a particular ceremony inspired by the archetype of the magician as imaged by David Bowie. Sean notes that when working with the medicine of mushrooms he experienced an archetypal messianic shift and worked to make sense of what Jung called, “holding the tension of the opposites” – not fully identifying with this experience, though not writing it off either. The middle path. We offer a disclaimer for the healthy use of psychedelics, noting how overwhelming these substances can be and the necessity to approach the use of these sacramental substances with care and reverence. We discuss cancel culture, anti-fragility, high-dose psilocybin practice, ceremonial magic, repurposing the energy of popular culture to help bring in awareness of the sacred, and more. Bio: Sean Manseau was born in Boston, MA, the son of a married Roman Catholic priest and a former Sister of St. Joseph. At various points he has been a mall janitor, a lounge act guitarist, a failed paratrooper, a San Francisco bike messenger, a video game animator, a Muay Thai instructor, homeless, an East Village NYC bartender, a failed novelist, a gym owner, and a video game industry executive. In addition to A.P. Psychedelics: Going Beyond Set and Setting to Achieve Visionary Virtuosity, he is the author of the spiritual autobiography Spotify the Gnostics, Here's the First Church of David Bowie, the coaching manual By the Numbers: A Practical Method for Instructing Multi-Modal GPP Training, the novel Lapdance, and the short story collection You Are Not a Planet and Other Stories. He lives in Portland, OR, with his dog Jones. to purchase book: https://www.amazon.com/P-Psychedelics-Setting-Visionary-Virtuosity/dp/B09X35NDQF/ref=sr_1_2?crid=34QIVK0FPWPW8&keywords=a.p.+psychedelics&qid=1664877430&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=a.p.+psychedelics%2Caps%2C87&sr=8-2 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 8:25 How can we understand traditional accounts of visionary experience in terms of the neurophysiology of our brain? What are the scientific bases for shamanism and healing, cross-culturally, throughout history beginning with the Byzantine era to today? These are several questions posited by Dr. Winkelman within the first few minutes of the interview. We continue exploring the void experience of introverted mysticism and the narratives expressed in extroverted mysticism (and what are the differences?), spiritual practice and psychedelic use in youth, recreational vs. religious use of these substances, a session with the Mazatec healer, Maria Sabina, in his youth, we discuss the tendency toward reductionism when using a physiological lens to explain the phenomenology of consciousness, describe the neurophenomonological experience of the spirit world, extrasensory perceptions and the brain, what is real?, naive materialism, group consciousness and the development of religion and the religious impulse, belonging, religion and social control, symbol use and group dynamics, religious groups and social connections, western medicine, ritual in healing, placebo effect, cross-cultural analysis of shamanism, priests & witches. Bio: Michael Winkelman, PhD, University of California–Irvine; MPH, University of Arizona, retired from the School of Human Evolution and Social Change at Arizona State University in 2009. Winkelman has engaged in cross-cultural and interdisciplinary research on shamanism, psychedelics, and altered states of consciousness, focusing principally on the universal patterns of shamanism and identifying the associated biological bases. His publications on shamanism include Shamans, Priests and Witches (1992), which provides a cross-cultural examination of the nature of shamanism; and Shamanism: A Biopsychosocial Paradigm of Consciousness and Healing (2nd ed., 2010). Shamanism provides a biogenetic model of shamanism that explains the evolutionary origins of spiritual healing in ancient ritual capacities. This biogenetic approach is expanded in an assessment of the evolutionary origins of religion in his co-authored Supernatural as Natural. These approaches provide a framework for understanding the contribution of psychedelics to the evolution of the human mind and social relations and their continued application in healing. Winkelman served as an expert witness for the defense in the Santo Daime case against the U.S. federal government, which won their right of religious freedom to use of ayahuasca as a sacrament. Winkelman received a Fulbright Fellowship for research on the health of ayahuasca church members in Brazil during 2009 ( https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2018.00136 ). Winkelman is currently living near Pirenopolis in the central highlands of Brazil; he may be reached through his website: https://michaelwinkelman.com Articles: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Michael-Winkelman to purchase book: http://www.abc-clio.com/ABC-CLIOCorporate/product.aspx?pc=A2593C Referenced resources: https://www.ligare.org Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 4:15 The Santo Daime, a syncretistic tradition including parts of indigenous South American religion, African folk traditions, and Catholicism, is a new religion as of the early 20th century. All of this to say that in this conversation, we are invited into a deep dive to explore the nature and formation of religion in general as we look at the specifics of a sacred ayahuasca-based new religious tradition. We begin with Dr. Barnard’s first-person experience within The Santo Daime, which is a real treat given that, as a professor of religious studies, he is quite experienced evaluating, comparing, & exploring religion and religious traditions from the third person, though in Liquid Light we benefit from his history as a comparativist, who analyzes his own tradition. In modern studies we often learn of first-person experiences with ayahuasca – the images, the process, the purging, though we do not often get a glimpse into the religion itself. Today’s conversation explores these dimensions of ayahuasca and more, including the formation of the religion, the institution, the preparation of the sacramental substance, philosophical interpretations, metaphysics, an exploration of religious studies and comparativism, divinity with The Santo Daime, Christ Consciousness, panpsychism, William James, & mystical experiences - we end by briefly questioning the ontological nature of the Other, though read the book and take a deep dive into mediumship and encountering the More. Bio: G. William (Bill) Barnard is a Professor of Religious Studies, as well as a University Distinguished Teaching Professor, at Southern Methodist University, in Dallas, Texas. His primary areas of research interests are the comparative philosophy of mysticism, religion and the social sciences, contemporary spirituality, religion and healing, and consciousness studies. For over 15 years (including his ongoing study of Portuguese), Professor Barnard has researched the Santo Daime tradition, a syncretistic, entheogenically-based new religious movement that emerged in Brazil in the mid-twentieth century. Professor Barnard is the author of Living Consciousness: The Metaphysical Vision of Henri Bergson as well as Exploring Unseen Worlds: William James and the Philosophy of Mysticism, both published by State University of New York Press. In addition, Professor Barnard is the co-editor of Crossing Boundaries: Essays on the Ethical Status of Mysticism. Professor Barnard has also written many journal articles and book chapters on a variety of topics, such as pedagogy in religious studies, the nature of religious experience, issues in the psychology of religion, and most recently, entheogenic religions and spirituality. https://liquidlightbook.com Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 7:26 This conversation begins with a discussion of the banisteriopsis vine (ayahuasca) featured in the background. We explore Dr. McKenna’s first adventure down to South America to study and explore psychedelics used in the Amazonian medico-religious process. This endeavor would eventually connect him with several elder medicine men who created mixtures for Dennis to study – “We want to learn everything that you know about ayahuasca.” We discuss how the indigenous folks of the Amazon responded to the scientists who sought to investigate their sacramental plant, the rubber boom of the early 20th century, lost aspects of the Amazonian ethnomedical tradition, the hard problem of consciousness, the limitations of reductionism, the value of science, limitations of science, an overview of the journey to La Chorrera, building the temple for “spiritual” experience, or ecstatic/mystical experience, the body as apothecary, theories of consciousness, the molecule and the “trip,” scientific bias of the west, the Default Mode Network, the value of psychedelics to the scientific community, and the McKenna Academy. Bio: Dennis McKenna is an American ethnopharmacologist, research pharmacognosist, lecturer and author. He is a founding board member and the director of ethnopharmacology at the Heffter Research Institute, a non-profit organization concerned with the investigation of the potential therapeutic uses of psychedelic medicines. Dennis also serves on the Advisory Board of the American Botanical Council; as Founder and Executive Director for the Institute for Natural Products Research; as an Independent Research Consultant to the Phytomedicine and Nutraceutical Industry; was formerly on the Editorial Board of Phytomedicine, International Journal of Phytotherapy and Phytopharmacology; and is an adjunct professor in the Center for Spirituality and Healing at the University of Minnesota. In that role, he has taught graduate courses in Botanical Medicines and Ethnopharmacology and an inter-session ‘intensive’ in Hawaii each January called Plants in Human Affairs. He has also taught summer field courses in Ecuador for the University of Arizona, and courses in the Amazon and Andes for Pharmacy doctoral students at the University of Kansas and the Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences. Dr. McKenna received his Master’s Degree in Botany from the University of Hawaii in 1979, his Ph.D. in Botanical Sciences from the University of British Columbia in 1984, and continued into post-doctoral research fellowships in the Laboratory of Clinical Pharmacology, National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), and in the Department of Neurology, Stanford University School of Medicine. His research has included the pharmacology, botany, and chemistry of ayahuasca and oo-koo-hé. He has also conducted extensive ethnobotanical fieldwork in the Peruvian, Colombian, and Brazilian Amazon. Since 2019, he has been working with colleagues to manifest a long-term dream: the McKenna Academy of Natural Philosophy, a non-profit organization founded in the spirit of the ancient Mystery Schools and dedicated to the study of plant medicines, consciousness, intelligence in nature, preservation of indigenous knowledge and a re-visioning of humanity's relationship with Nature. Dr. McKenna is author or co-author of 6 books and over 50 scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals. https://mckenna.academy Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 4:31 We begin our conversation exploring José’s background, and with the likes of Dr. Andew Samuels and Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés as mentors, his intellectual, professional, and spiritual orientation ranges from depth psychology and meditation to attachment and spiritually integrated psychotherapy. First up is one of José’s papers on spirituality and psychotherapy wherein he takes a critical look at “Jungian” approaches and identifies some of the dangers of both ungrounded psychotherapy and spirituality. We discuss the nature of therapy, ways psychotherapy can support and transform suffering, the nature of the relationship in therapy, meditation, development of a private spiritual process, religion and defining related terms such as spirituality and mysticism, the taxonomy of healers and therapists, the shadow side of spiritual work and healing professions, shamanism, fairytales, the archetype defined, inflation in healing work, differences between mythology and fairytales, we analyze the fairytale “Sleeping Beauty,” or “Briar Rose,” and the importance of inviting the unexplored psychological aspects of self. Bio: José has an M.A in Jungian and Post-Jungian Studies from the University of Essex, where Andrew Samuels was his academic supervisor, and an MSc in Systemic Psychotherapy from the Milton Erikson Institute from Monterrey. Since 2013, he has trained with Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés. He works as a psychotherapist in private practice and writes the column ‘The Spiritually Ambivalent Therapist’ for Thresholds, a Journal of Psychotherapy and Spirituality, from the British Association of Counseling and Psychotherapy. Class: https://junghouston.org/theevents/the-seven-gates-to-the-underworld-the-descent-of-inanna-online/ Journal: https://www.bacp.co.uk/bacp-journals/thresholds/ Sleeping Beauty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Beauty https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm050.html Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 6:29 “Ecstasy, trance, and soul flight … these powerful and potentially transformative elements of ancient experience have long been left to the fringes of archaeological research.” Dr. Sarah K. Costello and John begin with a question exploring the often unconscious issue of projecting modern perspective onto antiquity to support a current argument. As an archeologist, anthropologist, & art-historian, Dr. Costello’s peak into antiquity is through the lens of the material content. We continue exploring the contributions of Dr. Costello’s various disciplines, challenges of evaluating art in antiquity, symbols, Gobekli Tepe, interpretation of antiquity, carefully approaching one’s intuitive assumptions about antiquity and the risk of projection and bias, the Transcendent as a cultural universal, challenging the idea of universals, narrativization of consciousness, cross-cultural studies, universals and the particulars, we discuss her creative process for the book, “The Routledge Companion to Ecstatic Experience in the Ancient World,” defining ecstatic experience, we discuss, The Immortality Key, & cultural containers for alternate states in antiquity. Bio: Sarah Kielt Costello, Ph.D., has taught art history at UHCL since 2014. She teaches graduate and undergraduate courses in the humanities and the history of ancient art. She was the recipient of the UH Provost’s Teaching Excellence Award in 2012. Dr. Costello’s research focus is the visual culture of the early periods of the Ancient Near East. In her writing, she investigates the social contexts of visual culture, especially how people store and communicate ideas, and how imagery relates to religion. She is a project leader of a collaborative research initiative with Houston’s Menil Collection, focused on the art of the ancient Mediterranean world. She has conducted field research in Cyprus, Turkey, Israel, and Greece, and in 2013 studied in Greece as a Fulbright Fellow in the summer session at the American School of Classical Studies. https://www.routledge.com/The-Routledge-Companion-to-Ecstatic-Experience-in-the-Ancient-World/Stein-Costello-Foster/p/book/9780367480325 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts 5:45 Growing up within a family lineage of community herbalists and healers, Dr. Hobbs leads us through his orientation to healing and medicine starting with an overview of medical and healing systems, in particular the intersection between eastern and western medicine. The central question that Dr. Hobbs asks is: “What is medicine?” This, an obvious question that, sadly, is not often reflected upon. Dr. Hobbs urges us to cultivate and source our own medicine within our daily lives. As a young man, Chris spent his time in the old forest looking for mushrooms and, given his family history and knowledge of healing modalities, he became acquainted with medicines that grow naturally. We continue with subjects ranging from the community of mycologists, mystical states through a scientific process, the religion of science, food as medicine, issues with modern medicine, factory farming, food tax, food as source of healing, medical response to Covid, vaccine rollout, the role of viruses in our biological network, humanity living out of balance, the dual split of the vaccine, understanding a vaccine and a virus, the scientific method, publication and interpretation of data, medicinal mushrooms, inviting mushrooms into your diet, the microbiome and the gut, fungi and the immune system, nutritional benefit of mushrooms, visionary mushrooms, value of subjective experience following many mushroom journeys, and the lack of cultural and ritual process to fold psychedelics and religious experience into a sacred practice. Bio: Dr. Christopher Hobbs is a fourth-generation, internationally renowned herbalist, licensed acupuncturist, author, clinician, botanist, mycologist, and research scientist with over 35 years of experience with herbal medicine. Christopher has a doctorate from UC Berkeley in phylogenetics, evolutionary biology and phytochemistry. He is also a founding member of the American Herbalists Guild. https://www.christopherhobbs.com https://www.facebook.com/chrisrhobbs https://www.tellurideinstitute.org/telluride-mushroom-festival/ Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Information for Mark Plotkin: www.markplotkin.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts 8:36 We begin by exploring Dr. Kastrup’s history with Jung and philosophers in the 19th and 20th centuries and very quickly move into antiquity through the classicist Peter Kingsley. We discuss the layers of meaning in writing throughout our cultural history, common misunderstandings of texts, positivism of the 19th at 20th century, assumptions within systems of thought and belief, the problem of abstractions and interpretations of reality, Aristotelian logic and conflicts with abstractions, quantum systems, maps and logic, intuitionism, maintaining mystery, Pauli & Jung, synchronicity, meaning, myth and language, & reality as mind. Bio: Bernardo Kastrup is the executive director of Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (ontology, philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (reconfigurable computing, artificial intelligence). As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories (where the 'Casimir Effect' of Quantum Field Theory was discovered). Formulated in detail in many academic papers and books, his ideas have been featured on 'Scientific American,' the 'Institute of Art and Ideas,' the 'Blog of the American Philosophical Association' and 'Big Think,' among others. https://www.bernardokastrup.com https://www.essentiafoundation.org https://www.scientificamerican.com/author/bernardo-kastrup/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeDZCa3VrRQvzBlVR-oVVmA John’s Workshop: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/exploring-the-shadow-and-the-psychology-of-fame Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 8:15 What happens when the place where expansive, meaningful, transcendental, and just simply weird conversations becomes just as important and meaningful as the conversations that began there? Esalen. We begin our conversation exploring the birth and development of The Esalen Institute and then the boundaries of the geographical container dissolve and the ideas emerge to the foreground – religion, psychology, mysticism, & psychedelics. Jeff and I discuss the founders and the origin story of Esalen, religious comparativism, the counterculture in America, Russian & United States relations through the Cold War, diplomatic solutions through psychic research, the psychological and the social/political, the influence of Asian philosophy, Tantra, plant medicine, psychology, somatic process, Aldous Huxley, Abraham Maslow, social justice, sameness and difference, cancel culture, the need for unifying language and shared understanding of difference, and the 5-times jacket prize. Bio: Jeffrey J. Kripal is the Associate Dean of the School of Humanities and holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University, where he chaired the Department of Religion for eight years and helped create the GEM Program, a doctoral concentration in the study of Gnosticism, Esotericism, and Mysticism that is the largest program of its kind in the world. He is the Associate Director of the Center for Theory and Research at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, where he also serves as Chair of the Board. Jeff is the author or co-author of eleven books, seven of which are with The University of Chicago Press, including, most recently a memoir-manifesto entitled Secret Body: Erotic and Esoteric Currents in the History of Religions (Chicago, 2017). He has also served as the Editor in Chief of the Macmillan Handbook Series on Religion (ten volumes, 2015-2016). He specializes in the study of extreme religious states and the re-visioning of a New Comparativism, particularly as both involve putting “the impossible” back on the academic table again. He is presently working on a three-volume study of paranormal currents in the history of religions and the sciences for The University of Chicago Press, collectively entitled The Super Story. https://jeffreyjkripal.com/life/ https://impossiblearchives.rice.edu/registration/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MG5gFtZ3U8&t=9428s John’s Workshop: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/exploring-our-shadows-through-the-psychology-of-fame www.junghouston.org Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 5:38 Dr. Miles Neale offers us his breadth of knowledge about psychology, Buddhism, suffering, and psychedelics. We begin this conversation with Miles describing his early training, teachers, and practice as he traces the path of his development as a psychotherapist and teacher of Buddhism. Dr. Neale emphasizes a multidisciplinary dialogic process that is necessary to address the suffering of our time. We discuss The Four Noble Truths, a foundational insight and scaffolding of Buddhism, and use this frame to describe the problem, the cause of the problem, the potential for a solution, and the path for the solution, we explore materialism as a worldview that is the problem, define materialism and nihilism, the limitations and value of materialism and the overwhelming reliance on the scientific worldview – to the exclusion of religion, Tibetan history and practice, oracles, the confluence between easter and wester traditions, the Holy Grail, the Jungian Self and Buddhist no self, metaphysics, a spiritual path, the Three Jewels, and more. Bio: Dr. Miles Neale, PsyD, is a Buddhist psychotherapist in private practice and founder of the two-year online Contemplative Studies Program. Author of Gradual Awakening (Sounds True, 2018) and co-editor of Advances in Contemplative Psychotherapy (Routledge, 2017), Miles is a faculty member of Tibet House (US) and Weill Cornell Medical College. With more than twenty years integrating the mind science and meditative practices of Tibetan Buddhism with psychotherapy, trauma research and neuroscience, Miles is a forerunner in the emerging field of contemplative psychotherapy, and leads pilgrimages around the Buddhist world. milesneale.com John’s Class: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/exploring-our-shadows-through-the-psychology-of-fame www.junghouston.org Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com