The Responsible Finance Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

Kate Pender is CEO of Fair4All Finance, an organisation launched to improve the financial services sector so it better serves people who are underserved and excluded.

She was appointed chief executive in 2024 having worked with Fair4All since its inception in 2019: "I drank the Kool-Aid and got hooked on the work." Kate is also a member of the Government's financial inclusion committee. She describes Fair4All's evolving work and covers:

• three highlights of its research in 2024 with fascinating implications about the potential to support social purpose lenders via sustained subsidy and about testing different types of guarantee

• advocacy for community development finance institutions (CDFIs) and supporting innovation

• the No Interest Loans Scheme pilot

• using guarantees to lever additional capital

• the importance of "hearts and minds" stories to enable co-investment and partnership

• the scale of the addressable market, customer journeys and "green shoots" on referrals from the banking sector to CDFIs

• the need for regulatory clarity to catalyse concerted change across financial services

• how Fair4All balances impact and risk tolerance when investing in organisations which support underserved people

• Kate's career before Fair4All, including supporting small businesses to grow

• the challenges Fair4All has faced as a young organisation

• tips for anyone taking up a CEO role as an internal candidate

• the potential impact of a National Financial Inclusion Strategy

• how Fair4All will continue to support CDFIs and credit unions and its key priorities for 2025

We interviewed Kate in December 2024 for this podcast, published in January 2025.

What next?

• More about Fair4AllFinance: https://fair4allfinance.org.uk

• More about Responsible Finance and our member CDFIs: https://responsiblefinance.org.uk

Why did NatWest Group choose to work with community development finance institutions (CDFIs) as part of its cost-of-living support package?

What can be done to signpost CDFIs to bank customers who are financially vulnerable?

How do bank to CDFI referral processes work for businesses and social enterprises?

And why are CDFIs such a "terrific part of the overall ecosystem of financial services" whose ability is both celebrated and championed by NatWest Group?

Brian Holland heads up NatWest Group's approach to vulnerable customers and leads on consumer duty and remediation. He is joined by Stuart Foster who looks after financial institutions across NatWest, and served on the Better Society Capital board for over six years.

NatWest Group has supported and worked with Community Development Finance Institutions for over three decades; it was a founding funder and partner to Responsible Finance, formerly the Community Development Finance Association.

We learn more about the nature of this work and long-term support, and discuss the impact of the 2023 NatWest Group and Responsible Finance Hardship Grant programme.

Brian and Stuart also discuss:

• investment into the CDFI sector and conditions which could further enable this
• why a record-breaking year of CDFI lending is so significant for communities, businesses and people

This episode was recorded in May 2024, shortly before NatWest Group hosted the launch of Responsible Finance's new Impact Report at an event addressed by CDFI customers and Bim Afolami, Economic Secretary to the Treasury.

The event was  attended by social investors and banks, business and social enterprise representative organisations, financial inclusion campaigners, and politicians across parties.

Read the new impact report: https://responsiblefinance.org.uk/policy-research/impactreport/

Air pollution contributes to around 40,000 deaths a year in the UK and more in many other parts of the world. Enjoy The Air helps cities achieve air quality standards through policy, infrastucture and behaviour change.

CEO and founder Kate Barnard, an engineer, describes why she launched the business and how viewing cities as engineering systems means it can help local authorities and other organisations develop appropriate "clear air" strategies with measurable results.

Enjoy The Air secured support from Responsible Finance provider, SWIG Finance, so it could create a robust and internationally recognised certification for cities which meet WHO (World Health Organisation) air standards.

Kate explains how Enjoy The Air catalyses behaviour and policy changes, why she approached SWIG Finance and the impact of doing so, who the business is already working with and the importance of "WIIFM" or "What's in it for me?"

What next?

• Enjoy The Air's website: https://enjoytheair.earth/
• SWIG Finance: https://www.swigfinance.co.uk/
• SWIG Finance is a member of Responsible Finance, representing a network of "community finance" providers which support businesses, social enterprises and people. Check out https://www.findingfinance.org.uk/

"They make it feel like it's your fault," says Cath Wohlers about loan sharks. They use manipulation, isolation and coercive control and ruin lives.

Earlier this year a Centre for Social Justice report estimated 1.08 million people in England alone are currently using illegal moneylenders, who prey on financially vulnerable people.

Cath is LIAISE Manager for the England Illegal Money Lending Team. Sharks aren't always easy to recognise. Two thirds of people who the team supported last year thought they were borrowing from a friend, not a loan shark.

She explains the Team's activities during national Stop Loan Sharks Week, and its work 24/7 all year around on prevention, investigation, prosecutions, seizing sharks' assets, and helping people avoid and escape sharks.

And she describes the simple things you can and should do to help. Listen to this important episode to find out.

What next?

• Read our article, The sharks’ feeding frenzy and how to starve them
• Read this FT article from late 2021 which covered how CDFIs help people avoid loan sharks.
• Read Iona Bain’s article in the i newspaper which explains that illegal moneylenders come in many guises and are embracing social media to ensnare people.

• How can Government stimulate a boom in the social economy?
• Danny has described the role of social enterprises in “fixing broken markets” – what does he mean by broken markets? How can social enterprises address them?
  
• Banks and tech companies invest heavily in CDFIs (community development finance institutions) in the USA. How can we unlock more investment from tech and corporates into the UK's CDFIs and the communities they serve?
• What role can tax regimes and tax reliefs play in stimulating social investment?
• How can the UK's social lending sector persuade Government to help it scale-up?

This interview took place as a live webinar in May 2021.

Can business be a force for good? Definitely, according David Hanney, CEO of Alpkit, a business and certified B Corp which designs and sources outdoor clothing, camping equipment, bikes and other gear.

Alpkit sells direct-to-consumers through its website and its stores in the UK. It now has more than 100 employees – 6 years ago there were just 12.

It’s a great business in many ways, as David explains, with a set of six sustainability principles informing how it operates (and central to how it does business).

Alpkit must be commercially viable to exist. Alongside this, it knows it has a responsibility to its staff, suppliers, customers, the environment and the communities it operates in to be a good citizen.

It's growth has been supported by a responsible finance provider and David explains why and how it secured finance, what the process was, and how it now banks with the mainstream bank which actually referred it to a community development finance institution (CDFI).

He also talks through the accreditation process for becoming a B Corp and Alpkit's scores, how Alpkit ran a crowdfunding campaign which was fully subscribed in just minutes, and how in the next 5 years the most innovative and commercially successful products will be sustainable products.

We recorded this interview with David in Spring 2021. Since then Alpkit’s sustainable growth has continued, with new stores in Edinburgh, Betws y Coed, and Ilkley on top of its shops in Ambleside, Hathersage, Keswick, the Metrocentre. It is about to open in Bristol.

What next?

• Alpkit's website
• Its Six Sustainability Principles and 2021 Sustainability Report
• Our member, First Enterprise - Enterprise Loans, has worked with thousands of start-ups and growing businesses (like Alpkit) to help them follow their dreams and achieve their goals.

Imagine yourself on a zero-hours contract, leaving home early in the morning to deliver a sports therapy session. By the time you've spent several hours travelling to the place which booked the session - at your own expense - it's been cancelled. And you don't get paid.

Now imagine making that journey in a wheelchair. Carrying a heavy bag in your teeth. And imagine when the session is not cancelled and you do deliver it, your transformative work is valued by participants, but not by your employer.

Frustrations like these led Louis Speight, a former European-record-holder in the 800 metre T33 Wheelchair Sprint, and a colleague to launch their own social enterprise, Omnis Circumvado CIC.

In this interview Louis describes:

• the profound impact sport made in his life,
• how Omnis works with children and young people in SEN (Special Educational Needs) schools and with elderly people in day centres,
• why “the house will set on fire,” when launching a social enterprise.
• succession planning and whether business growth is the right thing to do.
• why Omnis worked with Key Fund, a responsible finance provider, and how this helped the organisation.

And much more.

In one of the worst-offending industries for landfill and modern slavery, Kalopsia proves you can make products more ethically and minimise environmental impact.

A batch manufacturer of textiles, apparel and accessories, Kalopsia is a social enterprise which started as an artistic collective and morphed into a textile producing community interest company.

It makes exciting products (including for brands you will have heard of), supports the textile industry and the people in it, minimises waste and environmental impact.

And it demonstrates all of this is possible as a sustainable (in all ways) business.

In this episode, Adam Robertson and Nina Falk of Kalopsia CIC describe:

• Kalopsia's journey from running galleries and exhibitions to batch manufacturer
• how Kalopsia has learned from other industries to develop highly efficient processes and systems
• what batch manufacturing means
• why their customers work with Kalopsia
• making the user experience on the website as easy as possible
• the importance of design and branding
• the impact of being a finalist in the 2018/19 Social Enterprise of the Year category in the Citi Microentrepreneurship Awards – and of winning the Manufacturer of the Year Award at The Scottish Business Insider "Made in Scotland Awards"
• why Kalopsia worked with responsible finance provider, DSL Business Finance
• their plans for the year ahead
• the widespread misinformation about ethics and sustainability in fashion and textiles - with a key call to scrutinise claims you see.

Glasgow Wood Recycling transforms reclaimed wood which could otherwise be wasted into high quality furniture and products.
 
The social enterprise and charity, launched in 2006, follows the Community Wood Recycling model. It has made furniture from reclaimed timber for a diverse range of customers from the public to hotels, boutique wedding venues, retail outlets, and schools.

The business has prevented over four thousand of tonnes of wood from being wasted, has provided exceptional training to hundreds of people and has 19 employees and 45 volunteers.

In this episode, Peter Lavelle covers engaging and looking after volunteers, securing appropriate customers, staying true to your values, winning the Citi Microentreprenuership Award for Sustainability and working with a responsible finance provider.

Want to invest in an organisation supporting under-served businesses and disadvantaged communities - and be rewarded with an attractive tax relief for doing so?

Community Investment Tax Relief is the answer, according to Katy Ford, chief executive of Foundation East. Foundation East lends to and supports small businesses unable to access mainstream finance.

Their CITR Investors can receive up to 25% tax relief spread over 5 years - and unlock affordable finance for businesses which would otherwise be unable to access it.

In this episode, Katy gives examples of the businesses which are now thriving thanks to a loan and support from Foundation East; describes how CITR works (and how Foundation East has attracted investment); and gives her views on how responsible finance providers should innovate and collaborate.

Here are the full timings:

• 1:40 Foundation East is a Community Development Finance Institution, also known as a "responsible finance" provider. It lends to small businesses unable to access mainstream finance.
• 2:20 Why does Katy do the job she does?
• 3:15 Katy was brought up on Guernsey and became more and more aware of the divide between "the haves and the have-nots."
• 5:25 Examples of small businesses, unable to access mainstream finance, which have borrowed from Foundation East.
• 10:31 Why now is an especially interesting time for Foundation East.
• 11:10 Foundation East is a mutual society with a legal structure as a “bencom” - society for community benefit. It can sell shares in the mutual society; those funds are used to invest in (lend to) small businesses. Foundation East offers 2 types of shares including Community Investment Tax Relief (CITR) shares.
• 11:40 What is Community Investment Tax Relief? How does it work?
• 12:30 What are the challenges when talking with potential investors, or potential advisors to investors?
• 13:25 Comparisons with EIS and SEIS schemes.
• 14:10 The minimum and maximum investment levels for CITR investments into Foundation East.
• 15:30 Whatever level of investment a member makes they get one vote.
• 16:30 The difference between withdrawal and transferable shares.
• 17:30 Foundation East’s shares were launched on Ethex at the end of March 2019.
• 18:45 How Foundation East is reaching out to potential investors.
• 19:45 “It’s up to us as a sector to push this tax relief.” How is Foundation East working with other Responsible Finance providers?
• 22:08 CDFIs have great stories and can evidence the work they do has enormous impact on people’s lives: jobs created, wellbeing improved, and more.
• 24:20 The misunderstanding that any business which cannot access money from a mainstream source is completely wrong says Katy. Yet sadly some accountants and advisors - and some in Government - still have this perception. This is why the Responsible Finance sector is essential.
• 26:00 Foundation East has already attracted over £200,000 via the CITR share offer. Where’s the money mainly coming from? And has there been a particularly effective route to market?
• 29:20 How Katy believe responsible finance providers must innovate and collaborate.
• 31:15 further examples of businesses and social enterprises supported and enabled by Foundation East.
• 33:50 How to get in touch with Foundation East