Software engineering at Big Tech and startups, from the inside. Deepdives with experienced engineers and tech professionals who share their hard-earned lessons, interesting stories and advice they have on building software.
Especially relevant for software engineers and engineering leaders: useful for those working in tech.
Welcome to The Pragmatic Engineer Podcast, hosted by Gergely Orosz, the author of The Pragmatic Engineer newsletter. In each episode, we dive deep into the world of software engineering, offering practical insights on scaling teams, engineering leadership, and navigating the evolving tech landscape. With industry veterans and successful engineers as guests, this podcast is perfect for anyone looking to level up their engineering career with real-world advice.
AI tools for software engineers, but without the hype – with Simon Willison (co-creator of Django)
Wednesday, September 25, 2024 • Duration 01:12:43
The first episode of The Pragmatic Engineer Podcast is out. Expect similar episodes every other Wednesday. You can add the podcast in your favorite podcast player, and have future episodes downloaded automatically.
On the first episode of the Pragmatic Engineer Podcast, I am joined by Simon Willison.
Simon is one of the best-known software engineers experimenting with LLMs to boost his own productivity: he’s been doing this for more than three years, blogging about it in the open.
Simon is the creator of Datasette, an open-source tool for exploring and publishing data. He works full-time developing open-source tools for data journalism, centered on Datasette and SQLite. Previously, he was an engineering director at Eventbrite, joining through the acquisition of Lanyrd, a Y Combinator startup he co-founded in 2010. Simon is also a co-creator of the Django Web Framework. He has been blogging about web development since the early 2000s.
In today’s conversation, we dive deep into the realm of Gen AI and talk about the following:
• Simon’s initial experiments with LLMs and coding tools
• Why fine-tuning is generally a waste of time—and when it’s not
• RAG: an overview
• Interacting with GPTs voice mode
• Simon’s day-to-day LLM stack
• Common misconceptions about LLMs and ethical gray areas
• How Simon’s productivity has increased and his generally optimistic view on these tools
• Tips, tricks, and hacks for interacting with GenAI tools
• And more!
I hope you enjoy this episode.
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In this episode, we cover:
(02:15) Welcome
(05:28) Simon’s ‘scary’ experience with ChatGPT
(10:58) Simon’s initial experiments with LLMs and coding tools
(12:21) The languages that LLMs excel at
(14:50) To start LLMs by understanding the theory, or by playing around?
(16:35) Fine-tuning: what it is, and why it’s mostly a waste of time
(18:03) Where fine-tuning works
(18:31) RAG: an explanation
(21:34) The expense of running testing on AI
(23:15) Simon’s current AI stack
(29:55) Common misconceptions about using LLM tools
(30:09) Simon’s stack – continued
(32:51) Learnings from running local models
(33:56) The impact of Firebug and the introduction of open-source
(39:42) How Simon’s productivity has increased using LLM tools
(41:55) Why most people should limit themselves to 3-4 programming languages
(45:18) Addressing ethical issues and resistance to using generative AI
(49:11) Are LLMs are plateauing? Is AGI overhyped?
(55:45) Coding vs. professional coding, looking ahead
(57:27) The importance of systems thinking for software engineers
(1:01:00) Simon’s advice for experienced engineers
• WorkOS: For B2B leaders building enterprise SaaS
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On today’s episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I’m joined by Quinn Slack, CEO and co-founder of Sourcegraph, a leading code search and intelligence platform. Quinn holds a degree in Computer Science from Stanford and is deeply passionate about coding: to the point that he still codes every day! He also serves on the board of Hack Club, a national nonprofit dedicated to bringing coding clubs to high schools nationwide. In this insightful conversation, we discuss:
• How Sourcegraph's operations have evolved since 2021
• Why more software engineers should focus on delivering business value
• Why Quinn continues to code every day, even as a CEO
• Practical AI and LLM use cases and a phased approach to their adoption
• The story behind Job Fairs at Sourcegraph and why it’s no longer in use
• Quinn’s leadership style and his focus on customers and product excellence
• The shift from location-independent pay to zone-based pay at Sourcegraph
• DX — DX is an engineering intelligence platform designed by leading researchers.
• ByteByteGo — Ace your next system design interview.
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You may not be familiar with Bending Spoons, but I guarantee you’ve encountered some of their well-known products, like Evernote and Meetup. In today’s episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, we sit down with three key figures from the Italy-based startup: cofounder and CEO Luca Ferrari, CTO Francesco Mancone, and Evernote product lead Federico Simionato. Bending Spoons has been profitable from day one, and there's plenty we can learn from their unique culture, organizational structure, engineering processes, and hiring practices. In today’s conversation, we cover the following topics:
• The controversial acquisitions approach of Bending Spoons
• How Bending Spoons spent more than $1 billion in buying tech companies
• How the Evernote acquisition happened
• How Bending Spoons operates and how it organizes product and platform teams
• Why engineering processes are different across different products
• How ‘radical simplicity’ is baked into everything from engineering processes to pay structure.
• And much more!
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The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:
• Good attrition, bad attrition for software engineers:
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Promotions and tooling at Google (with Irina Stanescu, Ex-Google)
Wednesday, November 6, 2024 • Duration 58:52
Brought to you by:
• WorkOS — The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS.
• Sonar— Trust your developers – verify your AI-generated code.
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In today’s episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I’m joined by Irina Stanescu, a seasoned engineer with over 14 years in software engineering and engineering leadership roles at tech companies like Google and Uber. Now an engineering leadership coach, Irina helps tech professionals build impactful careers, teaches a course on influence, and shares insights through her newsletter, The Caring Techie. In our conversation today, Irina shares her journey of rising through the ranks at Google and Uber. We dive into the following topics:
• An inside look at Google’s unique working processes
• How to build credibility as a new engineer
• Tactical tips for getting promoted
• The importance of having a career plan and guidance in designing one
• Having influence vs. influencing—and how to become more influential
• Essential leadership skills to develop
• And so much more
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In this episode, we cover:
(01:34) Irina’s time at Google
(03:10) An overview of ‘design docs’ at Google
(08:27) The readiness review at Google
(10:40) Why Irina uses spreadsheets
(11:44) Irina’s favorite tools and how she uses them
(13:46) How Google certifies readability
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Linear: move fast with little process (with first engineering manager Sabin Roman)
Wednesday, November 20, 2024 • Duration 01:11:56
Brought to you by:
• Launch Darkly — a platform for high-velocity engineering teams to release, monitor, and optimize great software.
• Sevalla — Deploy anything from preview environments to Docker images.
• WorkOS — The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS.
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On today’s episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I’m joined by fellow Uber alum, Sabin Roman, now the first Engineering Manager at Linear. Linear, known for its powerful project and issue-tracking system, streamlines workflows throughout the product development process.
In our conversation today, Sabin and I compare building projects at Linear versus our experiences at Uber. He shares insights into Linear’s unique approaches, including:
• How Linear handles internal communications
• The “goalie” program to address customer concerns and Linear’s zero bug policy
• How Linear keeps teams connected despite working entirely remotely
• An in-depth, step-by-step walkthrough of a project at Linear
• Linear’s focus on quality and creativity over fash shipping
• Titles at Linear, Sabin’s learnings from Uber, and much more!
Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(01:41) Sabin’s background
(02:45) Why Linear rarely uses e-mail internally
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Software architecture with Grady Booch
Wednesday, December 4, 2024 • Duration 01:30:43
Brought to you by:
• WorkOS — The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS.
• Sevalla — Deploy anything from preview environments to Docker images.
• Chronosphere — The observability platform built for control.
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Welcome to The Pragmatic Engineer! Today, I’m thrilled to be joined by Grady Booch, a true legend in software development. Grady is the Chief Scientist for Software Engineering at IBM, where he leads groundbreaking research in embodied cognition.
He’s the mind behind several object-oriented design concepts, a co-author of the Unified Modeling Language, and a founding member of the Agile Alliance and the Hillside Group.
Grady has authored six books, hundreds of articles, and holds prestigious titles as an IBM, ACM, and IEEE Fellow, as well as a recipient of the Lovelace Medal (an award for those with outstanding contributions to the advancement of computing). In this episode, we discuss:
• What it means to be an IBM Fellow
• The evolution of the field of software development
• How UML was created, what its goals were, and why Grady disagrees with the direction of later versions of UML
• Pivotal moments in software development history
• How the software architect role changed over the last 50 years
• Why Grady declined to be the Chief Architect of Microsoft – saying no to Bill Gates!
• Grady’s take on large language models (LLMs)
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Notion: going native on iOS and Android
Wednesday, December 11, 2024 • Duration 01:20:37
Supported by Our Partner
DX → DX is an engineering intelligence platform designed by leading researchers
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In today’s exciting episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I am joined by two members of the Notion mobile apps team, Austin Louden and Karn Saheb. Austin and Karn joined Notion in 2019 when Notion was revamping its mobile apps.
Notion is a versatile productivity and collaboration platform that combines note-taking, task management, and knowledge organization into a single workspace. It is available as a web app, as well as iOS and Android apps for mobile use.
In our conversation today, we take a deep dive into how the Notion mobile team operates and discuss the following:
• What the engineering culture is like at Notion
• Why the mobile team focuses so much on app performance
• The incremental shift from Cordova to Native
• Notion’s tech stack and frameworks they rely on
• How the mobile team maintains consistency across iOS and Android
• Unique features of the development process, including a public beta, using modules, and practices around feature flags
• … and much more!
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Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(02:03) The RFC process at Notion
(06:00) How Notion uses internal channels to share RFCs
(07:57) Some of the unique ways the mobile team works
(11:07) Why they don’t do sprint planning at Notion—and what they do instead
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“The Coding Machine” at Meta with Michael Novati
Wednesday, January 15, 2025 • Duration 01:15:30
Supported by Our Partners
• Vanta — Automate compliance and simplify security with Vanta.
• WorkOS — The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS.
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In today’s episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I’m joined by Michael Novati, Co-founder and CTO of Formation. Before launching Formation, Michael spent eight years at Meta, where he was recognized as the top code committer company-wide for several years. The “Coding Machine” archetype was modeled after Michael at the company.
In our conversation, we talk about what it was like working at Meta and dive into its engineering culture. Michael shares his journey of quickly climbing the ranks from intern to principal-level and gives level-headed advice on leveling up your career. Plus, we discuss his work at Formation, where he helps engineers grow and land roles at top tech companies.
In this episode, we cover:
• An overview of software architect archetypes at Meta, including “the coding machine”
• Meta’s org structure, levels of engineers, and career trajectories
• The importance of maintaining a ‘brag list’ to showcase your achievements and impact
• Meta’s engineering culture and focus on building internal tools
• How beating Mark Zuckerberg in a game of Risk led to him accepting Michael’s friend request
• An inside look at Meta’s hiring process
• Tips for software engineers on the job market on how to do better in technical interviews
• And more!
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Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
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Confessions of a Big Tech recruiter
Wednesday, January 8, 2025 • Duration 01:02:52
Supported by Our Partners
• DX — DX is an engineering intelligence platform designed by leading researchers.
• Vanta — Automate compliance and simplify security with Vanta.
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In today’s episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I catch up with one of the best tech recruiters I’ve had the opportunity to work with: Blake Stockman, a former colleague of mine from Uber. Blake built a strong reputation in the recruiting world, working at tech giants like Google, Meta, and Uber. He also spent time with Y Combinator and founded his agency, where he helped both large tech companies and early-stage startups find and secure top talent. A few months ago, Blake did a career pivot: he is now studying to become a lawyer. I pounced on this perfect opportunity to have him share all that he’s seen behind-the-scenes in tech recruitment: sharing his observations unfiltered.
In our conversation, Blake shares recruitment insights from his time at Facebook, Google, and Uber and his experience running his own tech recruitment agency. We discuss topics such as:
• A step-by-step breakdown of hiring processes at Big Tech and startups• How to get the most out of your tech recruiter, as a candidate• Best practices for hiring managers to work with their recruiter• Why you shouldn’t disclose salary expectations upfront, plus tips for negotiating• Where to find the best startup opportunities and how to evaluate them—including understanding startup compensation• And much more!
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Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(01:40) Tips for working with recruiters
(06:11) Why hiring managers should have more conversations with recruiters
(09:48) A behind-the-scenes look at the hiring process at big tech companies
(13:38) How hiring worked at Uber when Gergely and Blake were there
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