The People's AI: The Decentralized AI Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

What’s real in Crypto + AI—and what’s just noise? In this episode of THE PEOPLE'S AI podcast, presented by Vana, we sat down with two top investors to unpack the actual state of decentralized AI. These are the people who see all the decks, hear all the pitches, and are funding what they believe is the future of the space. So what’s legit, what’s frothy, and where’s it all headed?

First, we talk with Alex Odagiu, Investment Director at YZI Labs. Alex gives a clear-eyed view of the current landscape, sharing insights on the wave of projects flooding the space, the use cases that excite him (think data markets, DeFi agents, and composable infrastructure), and the challenges of signal vs. noise. He also breaks down how he uses AI tools in his own VC workflow—practical, actionable insights for anyone trying to level up their research game.

Then we shift to a wide-ranging, deeply thoughtful conversation with Daniel Barabander, GC and Investment Partner at Variant. We get into the big picture of how crypto and AI fit together, especially around agent composability, economic ownership, and verification layers. He walks us through why AI agents might need to spend cryptocurrency, where that thesis holds up, and where it doesn’t. We also explore what’s still broken in the space—and what’s needed for real breakthroughs.

Topics include:

• [00:04:00] Why 75% of pitches Alex sees are Crypto + AI
• [00:10:00] Why blockchain incentives are well-suited for labeling scarce data
• [00:14:00] What’s broken in open-source model training—and how Web3 could fix it
• [00:18:00] Agents in DeFi: useful or meme coin mania?
• [00:21:00] How VCs vet AI x Crypto teams—and why founder ‘pivot mindset’ matters
• [00:25:00] Practical ways VCs use LLMs for diligence and synthesis
• [00:32:00] Daniel’s 3 pillars: Aggregation, Verification, and Self-Custody
• [00:36:00] Do AI agents really need to spend cryptocurrency?
• [00:44:00] Why economic ownership is crucial to decentralized AI
• [00:48:00] Composability as a path to superintelligence
• [00:55:00] What’s still broken: the “fuzzy verification” problem
• [01:00:00] The underrated promise of modular data layers

We close with a fun look at the modular vs. monolithic debate—Daniel makes the case for why the open, decentralized, and composable internet still has a shot.

If you’re at Consensus and still in Toronto, swing by the AI Summit and say hello.

Daniel Barabander:

https://x.com/dbarabander

Alex Odagiu:

https://x.com/odagius

And a big thanks to our partner, Vana, whose mission is to enable user-owned AI through user-owned data. Vana recently announced a collaboration with Flower Labs to build the world’s first user-owned foundation model. 

About Vana's collaboration with Flower:

https://www.vana.org/posts/vana-flower-labs-partnership

About Vana:

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

Vana ecosystem: vana.com

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we explore one of the most promising frontiers in artificial intelligence: federated learning.

We speak with Nic Lane, co-founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Flower Labs and a professor at the University of Cambridge, to unpack why decentralized AI may not only be more ethical—but more effective—than centralized systems.

We dive into:
•Why centralized AI may soon hit a wall due to limited data access
•How federated learning enables richer, more private, and more diverse datasets
•The mechanics behind training large language models across global networks
•Flower’s partnership with Vana to build Collective One, a new model powered by user-owned data
•Real-world use cases: from healthcare to weather forecasting to robotics
•Why decentralization isn’t just a principle—it might be a technical necessity

Whether you’re a developer, investor, or just curious about where AI is headed, this episode offers a lucid, technical-yet-accessible look at the future of open source AI, data DAOs, and user-owned AI models.

Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube—and if you’re into crypto and AI, this is the conversation you don’t want to miss.

For more: https://flower.ai/

Presented by Vana, the open protocol for user-owned AI through user-owned data.  Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

Vana ecosystem: vana.com

Vana at MIT Decentralized AI Summit, Builders Workshop

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

In our debut episode of The People’s AI: The Decentralized AI Podcast, Presented by Vana, we dive into one of the most critical questions of the AI era: Who should own AI? As artificial intelligence becomes increasingly embedded in daily life, its ownership and governance will shape the future. Big Tech dominates AI development today, but a growing movement believes AI should be decentralized, open, and user-owned.

We speak with Anna Kazlauskas, co-founder of Vana, and Illia Polosukhin, co-founder of NEAR, to explore how decentralized AI could shift power away from centralized corporations and into the hands of individuals.

Key Topics Covered:

• What decentralized AI means and why it matters

• How AI models are built and trained—and who controls them

• The intersection of AI, data sovereignty, and blockchain

• The potential risks of centralized AI, from bias to economic concentration

• How AI assistants, autonomous agents, and data unions are reshaping the internet

• Predictions for the next 1-5 years in AI and decentralized technologies

Timestamps:

[00:00] Introduction: What is “The People’s AI”?

[03:15] Why AI ownership is one of the defining issues of our time

[07:24] The risks of centralized AI: control, censorship, and bias

[12:05] How decentralized AI provides a solution

[18:19] AI agents, peer-to-peer systems, and the future of automation

[27:40] Defining the core categories of decentralized AI

[39:41] The origin stories of Vana and NEAR

[47:57] Predictions: What the next five years of AI could look like

[51:21] Closing thoughts: Where is this movement headed?

Join us as we navigate the complex but vital conversation about the future of AI. 

About Vana:

Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. Sign up for the first AI Data Summit, hosted by Vana, on Feb 28 in Denver. This will be the go-to event at Eth-Denver with leaders at the forefront of Decentralized AI tech and applications. 

AI Data Summit, hosted by Vana:

https://lu.ma/aidatasummit

More on Vana:

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

Anna Kazlauskas on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/anna_kazlauskas

NEAR: The Blockchain for AI

https://near.org/

NEAR on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/NEARProtocol

Illia Polosukhin on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/ilblackdragon

The People's AI on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/The_Peoples_AI

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we dive into one of the most compelling intersections in tech today: AI agents and crypto infrastructure. Our guest is Bryan Pellegrino, co-founder and CEO of LayerZero Labs. His journey is anything but ordinary—former top-ranked professional poker player, model builder for MLB teams alongside Billy Beane, and now a key architect of decentralized AI infrastructure.

We explore the deep mechanics of decentralized agents: How will they live on-chain? Will they need wallets? How will reputation systems work for non-human actors? And most critically—what does it mean for blockchains when agents, not humans, drive the majority of transactions?

Bryan unpacks why micro-payments are broken in legacy systems and how crypto rails solve that. He discusses why LayerZero should be thought of as the TCP/IP of the decentralized internet—abstracting cross-chain operations for AI agents and making assets truly fungible across blockchains.

We also tackle big-picture topics like:

• [06:10] The problem with overhyping LLMs and the limits of scaling compute
• [14:45] What LayerZero actually does and why it matters
• [17:40] AI agents as blockchain-native actors—and why payments come first
• [27:30] The challenge of AI hallucination vs. blockchain immutability
• [31:20] Wallets, security, and reputation for AI agents
• [37:10] Use cases for decentralized AI people are sleeping on
• [44:45] How to build infrastructure that can outlast rapid AI evolution
• [46:00] Bryan’s grounded, long-view predictions for AI, AGI, and agent proliferation

Bryan brings rare insight—and skepticism—to the table, showing where hype diverges from real engineering, and where massive opportunity still lies. If you care about decentralized AI, agentic systems, or the future of crypto infrastructure, this one’s not to be missed.

For more: Layer Zero Labs

Presented by Vana, the open protocol for user-owned AI through user-owned data.  Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

Vana ecosystem: vana.com

Vana at MIT Decentralized AI Summit, Builders Workshop

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we sit down with Jason Zhao, co-founder of Story Protocol, one of the most ambitious projects at the intersection of AI, blockchain, and intellectual property.

We explore how Story Protocol aims to reinvent the $61 trillion global IP economy by transforming IP into a liquid, programmable, and creator-friendly asset class. From Hollywood screenplays to DNA datasets, from fashion brands to decentralized fanfiction, Story is building the infrastructure to track, license, and monetize all forms of IP—seamlessly and transparently.

We dig into major use cases:

• [04:00] How IP inefficiencies punish creators—and how Story fixes that

• [07:40] Case studies in nontraditional IP: gene data (GenoBank) and fashion brands (Crocs, Balmain, Ablo)

• [08:10] Why Batman Begins writer David Goyer is launching a new sci-fi universe, Emergence, using Story Protocol

• [13:55] The roadmap for fan-owned franchises and decentralized content worlds

• [20:00] What happens when AI agents remix copyrighted music—and how revenue flows back to IP holders

• [25:00] The complexity of attribution in AI training vs. fine-tuning vs. output

• [30:00] The Studio Ghibli dilemma: viral GenAI trends vs. creator compensation

• [35:00] How Story Protocol could offer legal protection even when AI models ignore IP rules

• [38:30] Inside IP Portal: a GitHub-like hub where creators can register and license IP

• [41:24] The two biggest hurdles to mainstream adoption: legitimacy and scale

• [45:00] Why AI agents may become major users—and producers—of IP on Story Protocol

• [47:28] Predictions for 2025: AI models that share revenue with creators, and the rise of “licensed deepfakes”

We also discuss how legacy IP giants might integrate with decentralized systems, and what it means when your likeness—human or AI—is composable and monetizable across the internet.

If you’re curious about the future of AI, creators’ rights, and programmable culture, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Story Protocol:

https://linktr.ee/storyprotocol

About Vana:

Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

• Vana ecosystem: vana.com

Vana introduces VRC 20 Token

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we dive deep into the evolution of decentralized AI with Ramesh Raskar, Associate Professor at the MIT Media Lab and advisor to Vana.

We explore why decentralized AI isn’t a rival to centralized AI—but a natural next step. Ramesh outlines a five-phase framework for the evolution of intelligent systems, moving from the “mainframe era” to the emerging “web of AI agents.” Along the way, we discuss how decentralized systems can address problems of data ownership, incentive design, verifiability, and user experience.

Whether you’re interested in AI agents, blockchain, data sovereignty, or the ethics of AI infrastructure, this episode provides a high-level vision with real-world applications... from a credible AI researcher who's far from a kool-aid drinking crypto-bro. 

Timestamps:

4:46 – Mainframe vs PC: A mental model for AI evolution

6:01 – From intranet to internet to the “web of AI agents”

9:13 – Limits of centralized AI

12:08 – Market forces, decentralization, and the economy of AI agents

13:21 – The four pillars of decentralized AI

16:41 – Proof of inference, verifiability, and trust in AI

18:14 – Rethinking UX in an agentic future

21:21 – Do we need standards? Or will AI agents just adapt?

25:27 – A case study of how Vana addresses the four pillars

28:21 – A look at the future: agent schools, decentralized labor, and AI socialization

32:58 – How Web3 could accelerate progress in entrenched sectors

33:37 – The biggest challenges to achieving this vision

MIT Media Lab's Decentralized AI Project

https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/decentralized-ai/overview/

Horizon 2023 | Ramesh Raskar | MIT Decentralized AI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSSffQsbFo4

About Vana:

Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

• Vana ecosystem: vana.com

Vana introduces VRC 20 Token

In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we explore the frontier of Data DAOs — decentralized projects that empower people to take control of their data and get rewarded when it’s used to train AI.

Our data is everywhere—sleep tracked by Oura rings, heart rates logged by smartwatches, comments posted on Reddit, even the layout of our homes as mapped by Roombas. Until now, most of that data has been hoovered up by tech giants, often without our knowledge or consent, and then used to train AI models. Data DAOs -- part of the Vana ecosystem -- flip that script. They allow us to contribute our data voluntarily, protect our privacy, and get compensated in return.

We feature two real-world examples of this in action. First, we speak with Veronica Kirin of Asterisk DAO (08:25), which aims to correct the long-standing gender bias in medical research by creating a privacy-preserving pool of non-reproductive women’s health data. We dig into the history of how women were excluded from clinical trials until as recently as 1993 (10:01), how Asterisk plans to bring this missing data to clinicians and AI developers, and how tokenization lets women “vote” on their own healthcare outcomes for the first time (19:18). Veronica also explains their phased rollout: the MVP app (23:32), future plans to integrate wearables (21:45), and AI tools that surface personalized trends and emotional insights over time (17:17).

Next, we talk to Ryan Kuhel, founder of DLP Labs (32:23), which is turning car telemetry data—everything from battery life to braking patterns—into a valuable asset for drivers. Ryan explains how drivers can join DLP’s “data liquidity pool,” contributing their vehicle data and getting rewarded in tokens. We break down who actually uses car data (39:41)—battery companies, insurance firms, city planners—and why most drivers don’t realize their data is already being monetized without them. Ryan also shares insights from DLP’s explosive growth after launch (45:23), how it ties into the Vana ecosystem (55:46), and how this model could extend to self-driving car training, ride-share companies in emerging markets, and beyond.

To learn more or get involved:

• Asterisk DAO: asteriskdao.xyz

• DLP Labs: dlplabs.ai

ABOUT VANA:

Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

• Vana ecosystem: vana.com

The People's AI on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/The_Peoples_AI

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

DeFi promised to make finance more accessible, but has it lived up to that vision? In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we explore how AI agents are reshaping decentralized finance (DeFi) and whether they can simplify complex yield farming, crypto investing, and smart contracts for everyday users.

We’re joined by Renç Korzay, co-founder of Giza, a project at the forefront of AI-powered DeFi automation. We discuss how AI can improve DeFi accessibility, optimize financial transactions, and bring new users into Web3. But what are the risks? If blockchain transactions are immutable, how do we ensure AI agents don’t make costly mistakes?

Topics Covered:

• The challenges of DeFi adoption and why it remains difficult for most users

• How AI trading bots and autonomous financial agents could change crypto investing

• The risks and benefits of AI-driven DeFi platforms

• Whether AI in finance can finally deliver on DeFi’s original promise

• The future of DeFi 2.0, AI-powered trading, and decentralized AI protocols

Timestamps:

📌 00:00 – Intro to The People’s AI and today’s topic: AI + DeFi = DeFAI

📌 02:30 – The biggest problems with DeFi today

📌 05:00 – Can AI make DeFi more accessible?

📌 10:00 – How AI trading bots optimize DeFi investments

📌 15:00 – The risks of AI in crypto: Can AI agents make mistakes?

📌 20:00 – The future of autonomous finance and its impact on Web3

If you’re interested in crypto, Web3, AI investing, and automated trading, this episode explores what’s next for AI-powered DeFi and the evolving world of decentralized AI protocols.

More on Giza:

https://gizatech.xyz/

Renç Korzay on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/renckorzay

About Vana:

Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

More on Vana:

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

The People's AI on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/The_Peoples_AI

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

Welcome to 2025's "deAI Summer." Decentralized AI is emerging as one of the most significant shifts in artificial intelligence and blockchain. In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we sit down with Jake Brukhman, founder and CEO of CoinFund, to explore the growing intersection of AI and Web3, the challenges of open-source AI, and what it means for AI investing and crypto-backed AI startups.

We break down Jake’s investing thesis on decentralized AI, including:

• Can decentralized AI compete with centralized models from OpenAI and Google?

• The paradox of investing in open-source AI while maintaining a defensible moat

• How AI agents are transforming DeFi, crypto trading, and smart contracts

• The future of AI-powered DAOs and governance models in Web3

• Key green flags and red flags in crypto AI startups

• How AI regulation and crypto tokens will shape the future of decentralized AI

Timestamps:

📌 0:00 – Introduction to decentralized AI and Web3 investing

📌 3:01 – How to spot real AI crypto projects vs. hype-driven startups

📌 6:36 – Why AI models trained on blockchain networks could challenge Big Tech

📌 12:25 – The role of AI agents in DeFi and autonomous finance

📌 18:26 – Open-source AI vs. proprietary AI—can decentralized models be profitable?

📌 27:07 – Why crypto AI tokens could drive mainstream AI investment

📌 32:04 – The future of AI-powered DAOs and decentralized governance

📌 38:57 – AI regulation, crypto laws, and the role of policymakers

📌 45:17 – Predictions: Where decentralized AI will be in one year—and five

The intersection of AI, blockchain, and crypto is evolving fast. Whether you’re an investor, builder, or just curious about where AI is heading, this conversation breaks down the real opportunities and challenges of decentralized AI.

More on CoinFund:

https://coinfund.io/

Jake Brukhman on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jbrukh

About Vana:

Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

More on Vana:

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

The People's AI on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/The_Peoples_AI

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser

AI is nothing without data. It doesn’t exist without it. It doesn’t get good without good data. It doesn’t get great without great data.

Right now, two major problems are colliding in the world of AI:

1. Data transparency – Most AI companies don’t disclose where they get their training data, leading to lawsuits and ethical concerns over how models are built.

2. Data scarcity – AI companies are running out of high-quality data. Much of the internet has already been scraped, and without fresh, high-quality sources, progress could stall.

In this episode of The People’s AI, presented by Vana, we sit down with the project's creator, Anna Kazlauskas.  And we explore a solution to both problems: data self-sovereignty. Vana is building a marketplace for user-owned data, allowing individuals to control, contribute, and monetize their own data while helping build AI models that aren’t just competitive with centralized models—but potentially 10x better.

We break down:

• How AI companies currently source their data (and why it’s a problem)

• Why user-owned data could fuel the next breakthrough in AI

• The role of data DAOs and how they work

• The privacy-preserving mechanisms that allow users to contribute data securely

• How decentralization could make AI more powerful, fair, and sustainable

Vana isn’t just about fairness—it’s about building better AI. We dig into how data sovereignty could shift the balance of power in AI, giving individuals a stake in the models that shape the future.

Timestamps:

0:00 – Introduction: AI’s biggest data problem

2:00 – The hidden battle over AI training data

6:45 – What does “data sovereignty” actually mean?

12:30 – How decentralized data can create better AI

18:10 – What are Data DAOs, and how do they work?

25:00 – The economic model behind data ownership

30:45 – The privacy challenge: Can user data stay secure?

38:20 – The roadmap for decentralized AI’s future

About Vana:

Vana's vision is for user-owned AI through user owned-data. Its mission is to be the world's first open protocol for data sovereignty. 

More on Vana:

https://linktr.ee/vanahq

Vana on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/vana

Anna Kazlauskas on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/anna_kazlauskas

The People's AI on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/The_Peoples_AI

Subscribe to The People's AI on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnLiYlJulQIcmvCjnVRYotw

Jeff Wilser on Twitter/X:

https://x.com/jeffwilser