In this ten-minute pod short, Four Corners Guides owner Lizzy Scully & filmmaker Deane Parker discuss the American Packrafting Association's new Be WaterWise series of 10 safety videos, recently launched through the APA Website & YouTube channel. Deane worked with the APA, the Packrafting Assoc. of New Zealand and numerous experts in the industry to develop these 10 short videos highlighting common hazards, practical mitigation strategies, and essential skills for paddlers of all levels. One of the main goals of these videos is to generate conversation. The APA would love to hear about your safety experiences, learnings and answer any questions you have. Join the conversation on YouTube, the APA Forum or Instagram.

In this episode, Lizzy interviews Rodrigo Alfonzo a Level 3 American Canoe Association Packraft Instructor and Level 4 Swiftwater certified, discussing his journey into packrafting and the significance of La Venta River, including its wonders, dangers and realities. They emphasize community involvement, safety and/or ACA training for local guides and communities, and the importance of preserving natural resources while promoting both Mexican and foreign tourism in Chiapas. Rodrigo shares future plans for his cooperative guide service, Packraft Mexico, training local guides and organizing events to enhance the packrafting experience in Mexico. You can also find Rod on @losabuelitoschiapas on Instagram.

Today we’ve got a special episode about one of the most storied and spectacular rivers in Mexico, which also happens to be one of the most misrepresented in social media. I’m here with Rodrigo Alfonso to talk about the wonders and dangers of La Venta River, his work with the Mexican government and environmental conservations agencies to protect the river and make it safer for those who utilize it.  We’ll also talk about his latest project, Packraft Mexico, a co-op guide service that strives to both train and employ locals to guide La Venta and other rivers and to bring training opportunities to the local communities surrounding these rivers. Rod won the American Packrafting Association’s Golden Paddle award in 2025 for building the packrafting community in Southern Mexico. He has single-handedly inspired dozens of Mexicans to not only start packrafting, but also get the training they need to work on the rivers they already love and utilize. The guy is enthusiastic, fun to be with and highly motivated. Please meet one of my favorite new paddling partners, the dynamic Rodrigo Alfonso.

Episode #7, A Beginner's Guide to Packrafting & Bikerafting

Starting today and through fall we’ll be sharing stories, podcasts, videos and photos focusing on international packrafting adventures. We'll explore places we guide or will be guiding, such as La Venta River in Chiapas, Mexico, and Chilean Patagonia. But also some places we are not guiding, such as Tajikistan and beyond.

February 2025, we’re heading over to New Zealand to partner with Huw Miles of Packrafting Queenstown and Deane Parker of Deane Parker Adventure Channel on a specially curated adventure of that country’s finest rivers. So for episode #7 of A Beginner’s Guide to Packrafting & Bikerafting, we decided to talk with Huw first a bit about his life and his business. But we primarily are focusing on what packrafting New Zealand’s South and North islands is like.

Well spoken and extremely knowledgeable about his adopted country, Huw shares stories about his favorite adventures, the wide variety of rivers available for beginner to advanced boaters, the first descent opportunities for the world’s heartiest packrafters, and the many highlights of paddling in New Zealand.

I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I have some serious FOMO right now. 

Read the show notes: https://fourcornersguides.com/2024/08/29/podcast-episode-7-seeking-wild-adventures-1st-descents-good-beer-try-packrafting-new-zealand/

#IfYouSeekNZ

For Episode #6 of A Beginner’s Guide to Packrafing & Bikerafing, we did interview with Julia Yanker, a long-time packrafter, life coach and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, aka trauma resolution specialist. My primary goal with chatting with Julia was to really find out what can be done for adventurers who experienced trauma that now affects the other adventures they partake in. 

I had a terrible climbing accident 6 years ago that increased my levels of anxiety exponentially, no matter the activity I’m doing, but primarily in regards to packrafting. This manifests in an irrational fear of whitewater. For example, I’ve done the Grand Canyon twice. But despite that I have an unreasonablefear of the big waves, though I’ve swam a few dozen times on the Colorado, and I have always been fine. But still, when I even just think about the Grand Canyon

now, my heart beats faster, my palms sweat, and I get a constriction in my chest.  No joke! I wanted to talk with Julia to see if there was anything I could do about this seemingly irrational fear. And she told me, yes, there is, in fact, a way to deal with it. So in addition to delving into her personal background and packrafting history, we talk about how to alleviate trauma experienced while adventuring. I hope you enjoy this podcast!

#39 views before I changed it to an mp3

PLEASE NOTE. WE DO NOT KNOW WHY THIS SHOW ISN'T UPLOADING IN ITS ENTIRETY TO SPOTIFY. PLEASE LISTEN TO IT ON PODBEAN. LINK BELOW.    Luc Mehl on The Risks & Rewards of Leveling Up in Packrafting, What Close Calls Are & How Knowing More About Them Can Make Our Play Safer, Plus His Safety Tool Kit   Today we’re talking with one of the most interesting and accomplished guys in the world of packrafting, Luc Mehl. He’s traveled more than 10,000 miles by packraft, ski, bike and ice skates, often utilizing two or more of those tools on the same adventure. He wrote the definitive guide on packrafting safety and skills. Every Packrafter should have a copy of The Packraft Handbook. And he’s one of the world’s best packraft instructors. He’ll absolutely hate that I’m saying these things. But as far as I and many others are concerned, he’s the man. He’s also someone I love having conversations with him. I always learn so much.  Today Luc and I are talking about a wide variety of subjects, but mostly focused around culture of safety issues, such as the risks and  rewards of Leveling up in packrafting, what “close calls” actually are and how knowing more about them can help the packrafting community (and other adventure communities) play safer. Plus we review a bunch of tools he uses to be the best partner he can be to the people he adventures with. I hope you enjoy Episode #5 of, “A Beginner’s Guide to Packrafting & Bikerafting.” (CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE)  

• Buy The Packraft Handbook! 
• Listen to the podcast," What to do When Your Adventure Falls Apart Thanks to Another Human." Human’s Outside, with Luc Mehl and Sarah Histand
• “PLAN so things go right.
TRAIN for when they don't." Courses with Luc Mehl
• The Packrafting Podcast #11, "The Packraft Handbook: Behind The Scenes with Luc Mehl." 
• Luc on Instagram!

 

Today, for our fourth episode, we’re bringing you an interview with Jeff Creamer, a Swiftwater Safety Institute Instructor and a boat tester and boat maker at Alpacka Raft. Jeff is one of America’s top packrafters, having done numerous remote, challenging expeditions on up to Class V whitewater in the mountains, along with some creative trips pairing boats and skis. We are stoked this year, as Jeff is teaching a Level 4, intermediate/advanced paddling course for Four Corners Guides this spring, May 17-19, 2024. In the first 15 minutes of this episode we learn a bit about Jeff’s previous life as a ocean canoe racer and PhD student, his packrafting mentors Dan Thurber and Mike Curiak, and his early adventures skiing, packrafting and backpacking. And then we dive into Jeff’s expeditions, how he plans for them, how he chooses partners, and more. 

In the third episode of our Podcast, A Beginner’s Guide to Packrafting, Four Corners Guides owner Lizzy Scully talks with renowned Packraft Instructor Jule Harle. A long-time kayaker and packrafter and owner of Alaska Packraft School, Jule has been instrumental in legitimizing packrafting as a sport through her work as a guide and her work with others to get the American Canoe Association packrafting curriculum in place to accredit packrafting guides across the country. She volunteers with the Alaska Chapter of the American Packrafting Association, and she was this year’s Golden Paddle winner. Jule is coming to the Four Corners June 15-17 to teach a women’s packrafting clinic for beginner/intermediate boaters.

In this episode, Jule and Lizzy take about a variety of things, including: 

•  How Jule got into teaching and why she started the Alaska Packraft School
• What she loves about teaching
• How she teaches women and men differently
• And did you know that women have a significantly bigger part of the brain that processes things through talking? Unsurprising!
• How when Jule started, her boat was too big for her and she couldn’t get back in, and how she’s come up with some hacks to help women with that particular skill and other skills.
• Jule doesn’t think men have an advantage because of their strength or willingness to take bigger risks. Rather, she says women and men just learn differently, and she has techniques that make some of the things that seem easy for men easier for women.
• Different ways to deal with PTSD and stress if you’ve had a bad boating or other traumatic experience
• Finally we discussed what we’ll do in our first annual women’s beginner/intermediate course this June, including running scenarios where we “practice controlled chaos,” wet exits and re-entries, and boat fittings to optimize your performance on the water.

In the second episode of A Beginner's Guide to Packrafting (& Bikerafting),  Tony Miely talks whitewater gear for packrafters. While he doesn't review the full spectrum of gear available (that would be a 5-hour video!), he talks about some of the basic gear that people need to get started with whitewater boating. Tony is one of the long-time owners of 4Corners Riversports, the premier boating store in SW Colorado.

In this episode, Four Corners Guides Head Guide Steve Fassbinder discusses his packrafting history, how he gained experience & his packrafting kit (boats, PFDs, helmets & drysuits, etc). Doom offers tips for beginners, emphasizing the importance of honesty & communication when paddling with others, plus advice on choosing appropriate rivers & trips based on skill level, the benefits of seeking guidance & training from experienced packrafters & the importance of having fun!

In celebration of Pride Month, I dedicate this episode of The Packrafting Life to queer folks. ~Lizzy Scully, CEO Four Corners Guides

And according to AI (but with some edits )... In this episode, host Lizzy Scully dives deep into the intersection of queer identity and the great outdoors. Joined by guests Justin Yoder, founder of LGBTQ+ Outdoors, and Justin Bickley, an ambassador & packrafter, the discussion explores how packrafting serves as a unique, meditative, and engaging way to connect queer folks with nature.

Beyond just exploring the serene beauty of rivers, the conversation highlights the vital role packrafting plays in building a supportive and inclusive LGBTQ+ community. Through personal stories and adventure plans, the episode sheds light on the inspiring initiatives like the Armida Horta Adventure Fund and LGBTQ+ Outdoors, which are focused on creating safe and welcoming spaces for queer people and women of color in nature.

Listeners will gain insights into the challenges faced by the LGBTQ+ community in outdoor activities, common misconceptions about queer people in the outdoors (like straight people don't think queer people like the outdoors! Except lesbians, who all drive Subarus. Seriously) and the transformative power of packrafting as a profound means of fostering connection, healing, and authenticity. The episode also touches upon how allies can contribute to creating a more inclusive environment and the importance of representation and visibility in the outdoor industry. Plus, how the outdoor industry can not only help increase participation, but also rake in the dough… 10% of Americans identify as queer... that's billions of dollars, people!

Finally, we touch on some serious dangers facing queer folk in the outdoors and in general... such as  how our government is currently trying to erase and dehumaninze trans people and what can we do as part of the LGBTQ+ community to help them feel more welcome. 

Introduction

In Episode 12 of The Packrafting Life (aka A Beginner’s Guide to Packrafting), Lizzy talks with Dan Thurber, primarily about leveling up in packrafting, but also about his paddling life and various other fun things. Dan was one of Lizzy’s first mentors in packrafting, teaching her much in various courses and also on a 14-day trip on the Grand Canyon. She continues to look to him for advice and guidance.

A Class V expedition paddler, Dan has solo paddled the Grand Canyon, and he has travelled around the world on kayaking and packrafting adventures. He’s been an instructor at the Swiftwater Safety Institute for a decade and he has a a master’s degree and now a career in river mechanics and modeling.

The American Packrafting Association says he is “an amazing instructor and advocate for river skills and safety.” He currently lives between the Pacific Northwest, where he works and paddles all summer and Tucson, Arizona, where he rides bikes and works all winter.

In this episode we talk first about his background in paddling and long-time career teaching. And then we dive into a topic he discussed at a workshop at the APA’s 2024 Roundup in Idaho, Leveling Up—when packrafters are ready to get to that next level in their paddling. Some of the questions and topics we covered include:

1. What does “Leveling up in Packrafting” even mean?
2. Understanding the Performance Zone. What defines the four zones in the “performance zone.” How to move back and forth between those. And how to be conscious of where you are at. 
3. What are some common overestimations paddlers make that lead them to believe they are ready for harder water before they actually are?
4. In what ways is Leveling up different in the adventure sports of rock climbing, mountain biking, and skiing than it is with paddling rivers? And why is important to be conscious of these differences?
5. What’s are some useful things for paddlers to consider before deciding if they’re ready for the next step in difficulty?
6. What is the importance of mentors, courses or other forms of education in helping paddlers balance pushing themselves to improve while also staying within a safe learning curve? And how can paddlers find good mentors?
7. Why is catching eddies so important? And how does the skillset you need for catching eddies relate to the skillset you need for taking a 15-foot drop? 

At the end of 2024 we snagged an interview with Alpacka Raft Design Engineer Dustin Partridge before he left for three months of packrafting in Patagonia, Chile. We're super stoked on Episode #11, the first full episode of 2025. Dustin is Alpacka Raft founder/owner Sheri Tingey’s right hand man, and a long-time employee at Alpacka. He came on board as the 15th or 16th employee and worked his way from flooring boats to learning how to build every piece and part of a packraft. And when it became apparently that both his pattern making and computer-aided design skills would make the company operate more smoothly and make Sheri’s job easier, she “stole” him from production. In this episode, Dustin and I talk about Alpacka’s design process, his mentorship with Sheri, the design of the Valkyrie versus the Mage versus the other whitewater boats (and which boat suit which kind of boater), and the work he finds most difficult and is most proud of at his job. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did! PS. In addition to packrafting, Dustin also runs Tough Mudder races, and the mug shot we used for this episode is from one of those races.

Just a note to say we'll soon be rebranding this podcast as, The Packrafting Life, a new entity owned and operated by Lizzy Scully and Steve "Doom" Fassbinder that also includes all things related to The Bikeraft Guide and The Packrafting Survey.

For more information on the film fest, to be a sponsor or to show the film in your town, please email packraftfilmfest@gmail.com or visit their website: https://www.packraftfilmfest.com/

Please note this is a non-technical look at the Mage, where I compare how it *feels* compared to the Wolverine and the Gnarwhal. On January 6th, we’re publishing Episode #11 of, A Beginner’s Guide to Packrafting, featuring one of Alpacka Raft’s designers, Dustin Partridge. In it, Dustin offers a more technical description of the Mage versus the Valykyrie. You can also find out more technical specs about the boat on launch day on the Alpacka Raft website. I put this quick video and podcast together to answer your questions. And, yes, if you are a Class II to IV boater or an whitewater packrafter aspiring to run Class III and the occasional Class IV and who also wants to do backcountry adventures, get the Mage. ~Lizzy

Correction: The backband configuration is different on the Wolverine compared to the Mage. There are only three points of contact on the Mage versus four on the Wolverine. Thus, there are fewer moving parts. As well, the Mage has a piece of webbing instead of the bungees found on the Wolverine. I like the Mage configuration much better. I always found the bungees annoying to deal with, especially when using the Sockdolager Equipment Seat Bag, which is now a standard feature on my boats. It appears that Alpacka is using this new configuration on all their whitewater boats. It's a small, but noticeable improvement. 

Technical specs from Alpacka: https://alpackaraft.com/products/mage Video by Dustin: https://vimeo.com/1035769419/786623251f

In Episode #10 of, A Beginner's Guide to Packrafting & Bikerafting, we talk with Alpacka Raft co-owner, Thor Tingey, about the hunt packrafting and packraft fly fishing scene. We start by discussing his background in those two activities and how Alpacka Raft’s hunt and fish boats developed along with changing hunting trends generally, along with Alaskan trends toward minimalism and packrafts as a part of the float fish and hunt market.

Fewer and fewer people are hunting, says Thor. But the reality is the same numbers of animals are being killed because the people who are doing it are more and more dedicated, core hunters, as opposed to those who are casually digging their rifles out in October to go hunting. “These are guys who think all year long about how they are going to go hunting,” Thor adds. “We have seen over 20 years a way more dedicated  population of outdoor enthusiasts who are focused solely on hunting.” And “they want the full experience. They’re physically training. They’re buying fancy supplements and backcountry meals. It’s a big activity for them.” 

What do we cover in this interview:

• What has inspired the changes in the hunting community? A broad mix of marketing, equipment and culture. “And the reality is the more you show people this is a really cool way to do this, the more they will want to do it.”
• The problems Alpacka has solved with its packrafts for hunters and anglers. The first goal with big game hunting is, can the boat carry out a harvested animal? Do we have enough physical space in the boat to carry an animal? Alpacka’s Forager will do it, and the Ranger and Mule are both excellent for carrying up to a moose-sized animals. But those three boats have only been around for about ten years. Alpacka solved that problem for multiple sizes, while companies like Pristine Ventures solved that problem for people needing to carry bigger loads.
• The second thing Alpacka looked at was: How were people going to use the boats? They’ve always focused on hiking in and out with the boats. And that has become even more important with the expense of flying bigger boats, gear, people and harvest in and out of the backcountry on backcountry planes. Packrafting, Thor says, has become increasingly popular because it’s simply more affordable than flying planes. So people are using them more often for float trips. “You can save the price of the packraft just on this first flight that you do.”
• The company also considers the walkability of the packraft. Can they easily be carried into a river from a gravel bar, small lake or other small place where a plane might land? People are wanting to get deeper and deeper into the backcountry. So the less they carry, the easier they can access these hard-to-reach places. “It’s a great thinner,” Thor explains. “It’s amazing how many fewer people you see who are willing to hike even a mile to get to better hunting. Even here in Colorado, if I get a mile away from the road there are 90% fewer hunters.” 
• He also makes recommendations to hunters who are just getting into boating, including things they should consider as far as safety and training and practice before they get out hunting in the backcountry. He also discusses the gear people should consider.
• He talks about his exploratory missions into the backcountry. He says: “We are always looking for rivers that have good whitewater and good hunting. If we can find a Class III or IV canyon, we go there because nobody else will be there.” This illustrates the  expansive possibilities of packrafts. The more you learn and the better you get at paddling, the more access you will actually have.
• The last ten years he’s been blown away by the small number of absolutely incredible fishing locations that he and friends have been able to locate that no-one else is fishing. He’s super tight lipped about these spots. But they do exist around the world, and he encourages people to get out there and find these spots on their own.
• But he also discusses how it’s not necessarily finding the fish or getting the animal that is important. “People really go out there and look for first ascents or descents, and there’s nothing wrong with that,” he explains. But, like his friend Brett Davis says, “sometimes it’s the first time for me” being there in that place.  While Thor says he does “chase beta” with the best of them, he also loves the experience of just going and doing something, not knowing what’s around the corner. “I love that experience. It’s what drew me to packrafting, and what draws me to a lot of outdoor activities.” 

In Episode #9 we dive into packraft fly fishing with guide Thad Ferrell. Thad was an early adopter of packrafts, and a longtime cyclist, rock climber and fly fisherman. He recently packrafted the Kongakut River in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to fly fish for char. In this episode we talk about how Thad got started with fly fishing and guiding, his multi-sport adventures, his new venture to teach packraft fly fishing on the Dolores and Animas rivers in Colorado in 2025, some tips and trips for packraft fly fishing and, of course, his trip to the Refuge. Stay tuned because in episode #11 we'll be chatting with Thor Tingey. Thor and Sheri Tingey spearheaded the development of the world's first fishing-focused packrafts. We hope you enjoy episode #10!

In Episode #8 of, "A Beginner’s Guide to Packrafting & Bikerafting," Deane Parker talks about how he got into pairing bikes and packrafts on pretty hardcore whitewater from the get-go, in addition to his history kayaking and rafting Class V rapids, his raft guiding business in the 90s, his mountain bike adventures, his filming projects through Deane Parker Adventure Channel, and his family farm. One of the most renown whitewater bikerafters in the world, Deane is also an all-around super nice guy. We always have fun chatting with Deane. And after eight years of working with him on various projects, we really look forward to meeting him in person February 15-25, 2025 when we finally visit New Zealand for a 10-day expedition packrafting course Four Corners Guides is running with Deane and Huw Miles of Packrafting Queenstown. (58 views before changing it over to an MP3 for Spotify).

Hey! This is Lizzy Scully, host of The Packrafting Life podcast. Welcome to episode #15. 

In this fascinating episode we look at scientific reasons behind the differences between how men and women learn, teach and how and why courses designed specifically for women or non-binary folks can be really beneficial, safe spaces for those folks to learn.

This absolutely was my favorite discussion/interview of the year. I learned so much from Sarah Histand, owner of Mind and Mountain, and Jule Harle, owner of Alaska Packraft School, that I will be incorporating into my own packraft instruction in 2026. I know this episode was geared toward women and understanding gender differences in learning, teaching, and course creation. But I feel and hope it will resonate with my male listeners as well. Whether you’re an instructor or a brother, father, husband, friend of a woman, you’ll definitely learn something about how you can help create safer spaces for those females and non-binary folks you love, to learn and thrive in the outdoors.

Find Sarah on Instagram @sarahmhistand and visit her website MindandMountain.co.

Find Jule on Instagram @AlaskaPackraft and visit her website AlaskaPackraft.com.

Jule & Lizzy are joining forces August 3-7 for a Women's Week of Packrafting. If you'd like to register, please click here! And please let Jule know you found out about the course through the podcast. Thanks!

CLICK HERE TO ENTER THE AMERICAN PACKRAFTING ASSOCIATION GIVEAWAY!!

FINALLY!!! CLICK HERE to join the American Packrafting Association for $10 all this month. AND get the chance to win one of three Buddy Boy Adventure Waste Kits to make your waste management on river trips much easier. Also win a copy of The Bikeraft Guide. And the #1 randomly chosen winner will also get a Sockdolager Equipment bow bag with a Four Corners Guide's logo.  Register via this link!

Stay tuned because I've got two more shorts in the works, including a conversation about bikerafting and packrafting in the Northeast with Alejandro Strong, owner of Packraft Maine, along with a conversation with guide Felipe Meneses about packrafting in Ecuador. 

In episode #16 of The Packrafting Life, Lizzy Scully chats with Packraft Maine's Alejandro Strong about his love of bikerafting, the new route he is establishing across his adopted state, the growth of the sport on the East Coast, the plethora of opportunities to packraft within a few hours of where he lives, and the origins of his guide service. They also discuss Alejandro's efforts to get more folks of color and queer folk into the outdoors through packrafting, and his desire to get advanced education to those folks who excel.  You can find Alejandro on Instagram @packraftmaine or online @ packraftme.com.

Callum Lewis started Packrafting Scotland just a couple years ago with friend Jack, to fill a growing niche and because every day on the river is a great day. In episode #17 we chat about how, when and why he started his new guide service. We explore the various rivers on which they guide, along with big adventures Callum plans to do on the rivers and lochs of Scotland. And we laugh a lot about Scottish slang, Scottish weather (you can have four seasons in one day... sounds like Colorado) and all the great things about Scotland (there are a lot). Find Packrafting Scotland online at https://www.packraftingscotland.co.uk/contact or on Instagram @packraftscotland.

More info: https://fourcornersguides.com/a-beginners-guide-to-packrafting-podcast/

Host Lizzy Scully and guest Tony Miely test and review lightweight throw bags for packrafting and kayaking, examining deployment, rope type, mouth openness, waist‑pack options, weight, and re‑stowing ease.

They compare models from ultralight to guide‑grade, discuss pros and cons and price points, and recommend which bags work best for different paddling situations (guiding versus personal).

For more information and specs on these bags, please visit the Four Corner Guides Podcast web page.

This episode sponsored by the American Packrafting Association.