Explore every episode of the podcast The Other Side

Before Mandie Vossenberg was diagnosed with OCD at 31, she’d already googled it and decided it wasn’t her; OCD was for good people with a problem they couldn’t control. She was sure she was just a bad person.

If you’ve ever been stuck in a thought you couldn’t get out of, or watched someone you love get stuck there, this conversation will feel familiar. Back for her fourth time on the pod, Mandie talks about her OCD publicly for the first time. Not the “I’m so OCD, my spice rack is organized” version, the real lived experience. 

We talk about: the stuffed animals she rotated every night as a kid so none of them would feel left out; walking to the studio at 1am to check a door she’d already locked; the first therapy appointment of her life, and the diagnosis she tried to argue her way out of; why the treatment that actually worked felt mean, for her and for her husband; and the two words he says now instead of “don’t worry, I saw you lock it.”

Mandie was my very first guest on this podcast, and I’ll be forever grateful for her candor, vulnerability and generosity. I've often talked to Mandie about needing to double check the stove or waking up at 3am wondering if Theo ate poison (for no reason...) but this conversation showed me just how big the difference is between my moments of anxiety and what she lives with. Mandie, thank you for trusting me with this one <3

If this episode resonates with you, or sounds like someone you love, please pass it along. The thing Mandie most needed to hear when she was diagnosed was that she wasn’t alone. Another great support that Mandie recommends is the International OCD Foundation - you’ll find them here. 

And if you want to sweat it out with Mandie at Collective Movement, find her, and her incredible team, here. 

If you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Dorsa Babaei grew up in Iran wearing clothes made by her mom, aunt, and grandma, three women in a friendly, never-ending competition over who had the best patterns. While neither of those women made it their living, it's because of them that Dorsa did - they are, essentially, the inspiration behind the Montreal based brand, dorsaLi.

From Iran to India to Dubai to Montreal, Dorsa has built dorsaLi on patience. She lets a piece that didn't sell find its people years later, and after 146 styles in five years she's learning that restraint may be the hardest design skill of all. She also opens up about launching a collection this year while her home country was in crisis, and why, for her, the work is always personal.

We talk about: the top I wore for our chat, which barely sold when it launched in 2022, and what changed this year; our shared habit of living in the same five things while the pieces we love sit in the closet; Montreal's no-gatekeeping fashion scene, where another designer helped her find her seamstresses; why she's narrowing everything down to a "dictionary of pieces"; and the one wish in her wish jar that still hasn't come true.

Know someone with a closet full of beautiful things they're saving for someday? Send them this one, and tell them to wear the good dress to the grocery store.

Better yet, send them the link to the Delicia top or the yellow dress I can't stop talking about - they'll thank you for it. 

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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If you’ve ever googled “Is this perimenopause or just me?” then this episode is for you.

My sister Danielle was diagnosed with adenomyosis in 2018. Nobody told her. She found out five years later, by accident, reading her own medical chart, after my diagnosis turned up the same thing.

My mom, Lorraine, didn't even know she was anemic until a lab tech tested her blood almost by chance. Her hemoglobin was under nine - about a quarter of what it should've been. She'd been bleeding heavily for years and had just quietly adjusted, because that's what you did.

Three women, three decades, same fight, and the Hogans have never once sugar coated any of it.

We talk about: the gynecologist who wouldn't even prescribe my mom the pill; six years of Danielle asking for a hysterectomy and hearing no, including a doctor who told her to "think it over" in case she met a man who wanted kids; the symptoms nobody warns you about, like smelling cigarette smoke that isn't there or losing a word mid-sentence; and why so many of us spend years thinking a symptom is just our personality instead of what it actually is.

My sister went through the worst of this without a map. Because of her, I didn't have to. Now we're handing you the map too.

If this has you thinking about your mom, your sister, or a friend who's been calling a symptom "just stress" for way too long, send them this one.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Two hours after giving birth at home, Sammi Dreiling passed out and lost her pulse. That's the day that started her hardest year - the one where losing her dad a month later and watching a decade of business work collapse pushed her and her husband, Dylan, to finally ask what they'd actually do if they were following their bliss. Sammi calls it her cocoon year: everything she'd built had to fall apart before Ananda Elixirs could exist at all.

We talk about: the line Dylan keeps repeating - "the harder you grip it, the sooner it flows through your fingertips" - and what actually letting go looked like for them; the Fantastic Fungi documentary that had them both in tears, and how the conversation after it turned into a cream soda recipe cooked up on their own stove; a friend named Emily who watched their kids for 6 hours every weekend so they could sell at farmers markets, and ended up with equity in the company for it; how $14,000/mth in sales their first month after moving back to Canada turned into $100,000/mth in sales just five months later; and walking onto the Dragons' Den set Sammi had been watching since she was 14 - and the very deliberate reason they turned the deal down.

I loved this chat with Sammi; we connected on many levels (losing our dads, watching our businesses crumble with the Pandemic) so when she said, "learn to listen to the whispers before they become a scream," I just knew we were destined to meet and remind each other of this. 

If you know someone white-knuckling their way through a plan that stopped working a while ago, send them this one - sometimes letting go is the whole point.

To try the sodas yourself (the cream soda in my coffee has my heart forever more), you can find them here. 

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Clarissa Arthur spent her early teenage years angry. The skipping school, running away, in and out of trouble with the police kind of angry. Then 3 weeks after she turned 17, standing in the bathroom at her high school, she found out she was pregnant. This is when she made the decision to change.

This instinct - to keep moving forward even in a situation that could easily have derailed her - is what propelled Clarissa in each stage of her life. Now the executive director of Nelson House, a first-stage shelter for women and children fleeing violence, she clearly, and thoughtfully, traces a straight line from her hardest years to the work she does today - continually reminding herself that you have two choices, give up or show up.

We talk about: losing her dad to a sudden heart attack three weeks after she'd finally gotten her life back on track; surviving domestic violence herself, and what it's like to run one of Ottawa's five shelters for women fleeing exactly that; the job interview where she cried in front of six strangers and got hired anyway, and why she still tells her staff "I'm Clarissa before I'm the executive director"; and her actual, zero-apologies way of shutting her brain off after a shift (a sleep mask with built-in speakers and the Real Housewives, in case you were wondering).

If you know anyone who could use a little Clarissa magic in their life, please share this one.

For more information on Nelson House, whether that's becoming a monthly donor or just knowing the number is there when someone needs it, visit their website.

If you'd like The Gratitude Effect Journal by Clarissa Arthur and Karen Jolicoeur, find it here. 

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Dr. Sam Hetz cold-emailed three Ottawa clinics that were offering Botox, asking for ten minutes of their time. One doctor graciously said yes, changing the direction of Sam's life. A decade later he's a partner of a 70-clinic, L'Oréal backed medical group, as well as the co-founder of Ottawa's first personalized, private, longevity-focused clinic, LifespanMD. 

What makes this conversation worth the hour isn't his resume, though, it's his attitude. Sam isn't afraid of change, accepting that nothing is permanent and using tools he's learned to remind himself (and his patients) that whatever you're catastrophizing about almost never actually happens.

We talk about: leaving a full-time family medicine practice to bet on a cosmetic clinic he learned about by shadowing a mentor on vacation days and post-call mornings; why he says "no decision is finite" and the worst-case-scenario exercise his business coach taught him; building LifespanMD from a business plan on a napkin; the one health intervention Sam says beats every drug and why almost nobody does enough of it; and his real diagnostic question before burnout hits - are you good busy, or bad busy?

Sam and I have known each other for years, and this was the first time I got to sit him down and ask him everything. I walked away with insights that I will apply to my own business (and my health!). 

Send this to the friend who's always busy, as a reminder that taking time, especially for a conversation like this, is good for them.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Michelle Weger fell asleep at a microscope in her first year of university and woke up with two black eyes. It took five years before anyone figured out why.

As Michelle talks about living with narcolepsy we speak about the tendency to hide the parts of us that aren't so polished, and what can happen when we let our guard down.

What you'll hear about: the 5 years of dead-end doctor visits and the friend, Rebecca, who changed her life for the better; what it actually felt like to sleep 20 hours a day and never once feel rested; the 4-month trip to Africa that turned into an accidental blogging career, and how the desire to share elephant photos with her grandparents became a website development and SEO business that has generated millions of dollars; a service dog named Quinn who has her own piece of internet fame now; and the exact moment Michelle decided to stop hiding her diagnosis, and what happened right after.

Know someone quietly managing something they're sure would change how people see them - a diagnosis, a body that doesn't cooperate, a business they're scared to be honest about? Do me a favour and send them this one.

If you'd like more from Michelle - her book, her talks, or her service dog Quinn's Instagram - find her website, her instagram and Quinn's IG  over here.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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My mom is 77. Her closest friends are four women she met when she was 16 and for almost a decade of their lives, she barely spoke to them.

I went into this conversation expecting a nice story about a friend group that's lasted 60+ years. What I didn't expect was how the silence actually ended - not with a big reconciliation talk, but with two of them showing up at her door with a pie. She still calls it an olive branch.

This week I chose one of the top downloaded podcasts of the year to re-release - the one where mom, sis and I talk about friendships. The ones that go quiet. The ones that end in divorce. And the ones that stay, in different ways, through the many ebbs and flows of life. 

I've thought of this conversation often since we recorded it last Fall. It's made me nostalgic for friends I've lost, and it's made me feel the deepest of love for the ones with staying power. 

Mom has a theory that friendships just have a clock that runs out on them. I'm still not sure if that's the most comforting thing I've ever heard or the hardest.

Do me a favour and share it this episode with your friend - the one you thought of while listening.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Erin McHarge was a 27 year old PhD student going about her life when she was told she has stage 4B endometrial cancer - and it's incurable. 

But this isn't a "cancer episode". It's a conversation with someone more curious about her own life than afraid of it - and it changed how I think about mine.

This is one of the most highly downloaded podcasts of the year and within minutes you'll see why. I originally released it as a two-part but now I'm letting it be what it was - a long conversation with a good friend who also happens to be living people's worst nightmare. 

We talk about what it costs to be calm and articulate while doctors dismiss you for it; the 13 days her diagnosis sat in her chart before anyone told her; getting married in front of a fireplace because the dock wedding got rained out; finishing a PhD you might not live to use; and grieving a future that was never guaranteed to begin with.

This episode has never left me, and I don't think it will leave you either. Do me a favour and share it. Pass it along to someone you thought of while listening. 

If you'd like more from Erin, here's her Substack. 

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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One of the most downloaded episodes in the history of this show - and it's the very first one I ever recorded <3

My friend Mandie lost her mom to cancer, and then her stepdad, 11 months later. Two parents, back to back, in under a year. We get into what actually gets you out of bed the day someone dies, running the Chicago Marathon four hours after finding out her mom had two months left, and the dead-parent jokes that only make sense once you're on the other side of it.

It's heavy. It's also really funny, in the way grief actually is when nobody's performing for the room. This is why I started this show.

If you fall in love with Mandie like I did, be sure to check out her business, Collective Movement. 

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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He spent 25 years inside some of the highest-stakes rooms in the Canadian government and he still describes himself as "not really a social guy."

This past January Nadine sat down with Fraser Valentine to talk about what happens when the thing you built your whole identity around is about to end. It was just months before his retirement date and the conversation was so well received it remains as one of the most downloaded - so here's the re-release. 

Listen in as we get into the Sunday-night ritual his father ran him through as a kid, why he calls the public service "a parent" - one that can reward you and quietly punish you in the same breath - and the moment he realized he'd spent decades accomplishing things without ever stopping to actually feel them.

This isn't really about retirement. It's about what's left of you once the title's gone. 

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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This month Mom & Sis joined me to talk about the moment a parent-child relationship quietly turns into a friendship - and the phone call Nadine got from a hotel in Quebec that made her realize her mom had already made that shift, years before she even noticed.

This isn't a how-to-raise-your-kids episode. It's the other side of it: what it actually takes for a parent to step all the way back, and what happens once they do.

We talk about: the one-ingredient answer Lorraine gives for how this works ("I like each of you"); why she calls stepping back from parenting "a relief," not a loss; what each of her three kids has, unknowingly, taught their mother; and Lorraine's one piece of advice for any parent hoping to end up actual friends with their adult kids.

I don't think I'll ever take these monthly conversations with my mom and sister for granted. This one reminded me why we keep doing them.

Did this episode make you think of someone who mothered you into being? Send it along to them.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Nagad is a therapist, and the jeweller behind Of Soleil, where she hand-shapes polymer clay into blueberries you'd swear were real, earrings inspired by basket weaving, and collections named for the instruments and scents of home.

What got me wasn't the craft itself, gorgeous as it is - it's that every piece she makes is doing quiet, deliberate work: carrying her culture and memory into rooms they wouldn't otherwise reach.

We talk about: the "Fruit Salad" collection that took over two years to get right; the "Oud" collection, named for an instrument and a scent tied to home and family gatherings; why she called her business Of Soleil, and what it means to return to your own light; her day job as a therapist working with African, Caribbean, and Black communities, and how it braids into the jewelry; and why she couldn't sit and "let the clay just be" the way art therapy asked her to and what that taught her about herself.

As if I didn't already love my blueberry earrings enough - now every time I put them on I'll think about, and feel, all of the love and care that went into them. 

Share this episode with the creative, or the homesick, in your life.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Dr. Jared Gerston has been treating Nadine's body for years using a technique called PDTR. When she went to see him for what she assumed was pickleball-related neck pain and walked out pain free, learning it had nothing to do with her favourite past-time and, instead, was her nervous system still reacting to an old injury, she knew it was time to mic him up! 

This isn't really an episode about chiropractic care. It's about what happens when someone gently asks your body a question your mind's been avoiding - and how fast physical pain can disappear once you actually answer it.

We talk about: what PDTR is and how it reads the nervous system's compensation patterns; the two-year hamstring injury nobody could solve until they changed the question; primitive reflexes we're all still walking around with as adults; why he's stepping down as owner of the practice he spent over a decade building, to make room for the parts of the work he actually loves; and the reminder that you can't pour from an empty cup, even when - especially when - you're the one everyone else pours from.

I left this conversation the same way I leave every appointment with Jared - a little smarter, and a lot more in tune with myself. 

Pickleball fan or not, share this one with the person who's always moving. No doubt there's an old injury that acts up from time to time. 

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Rebecca Rowe trained at Pratt Institute and ESMOD Paris, ran her own clothing brand for eight years, and lost her entire collection - patterns included - the week a flood destroyed her apartment.  

What struck me wasn't so much the flood as what came after: an insurance adjuster telling her that her patterns (which took hundreds of hours of work) were worth $9 each. That's the moment I understood why she does what she does now. 

 We talk about: her eight-year-old self learning how to use a sewing machine; leaving for design school in New York at 17 without telling her parents until the acceptance letter arrived; the night the flood took her sewing machines and every pattern she owned; why she refuses to do "body type" analysis with clients and teaches anchor points instead; the five fashion theories she uses to find your real style; and the real reason women say "nothing fits" when they rarely mean it literally.  

I could've talked to Rebecca for four more hours. Ideally while we are both going through my closet!  

Who's your favourite shopping buddy? Send this episode to them.  

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Ro Nwosu spent years as one of the only Black movement instructors most Ottawa-area fitness studios called on when they needed to "do the diversity work" - often unpaid, feeling under-appreciated, and expected to make hard truths comfortable to hear.

This is something we cannot gloss over when we talk about her burnout - in fact, it's a direct cause. Listen in as Ro tells us how she turned "I'm the problem" from an accusation into a boundary. As someone who also suffered from burnout, that reframe cracked something open in me too.

We talk about the difference between being tired and being actually burnt out; why Ro now charges an extra $8,000 to "soften" how she talks about racism; the studio space she finally walked away from; the sabbatical that turned into a full identity rebuild; the two-year communication course she took because she couldn't say no without getting angry;  and the word she's chosen for who she's becoming - unmanageable.

This conversation didn't feel like two former studio owners talking shop. It felt like two women finally saying out loud what almost broke us.

Do me a favour and share it - pass it along to someone you thought of while listening.And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

This month's Mom & Sis episode started as advice for my nephew Connor, who's about to graduate high school, and ended with all three of us realizing we're still graduating into something new every few years, whether we call it that or not. Our own advice, mirrored back to ourselves, even at 48, 55 and 77. 

We talk about: the year Danielle and Nadine both moved out, and what Lorraine now calls the "freeing" side of watching her kids become independent; Danielle's advice to get off your phone and make eye contact with actual humans; Nadine's own post-university panic to have everything figured out immediately; the time Lorraine nearly burned down their London Airbnb, "Casa Rosa," ironing a shirt while the stovetop quietly melted a rubber mat down the hall; and why all three believe that you should surround yourself with people smarter than you and not look for the rooms where you feel smartest.

Know someone who's graduating into something new right now, with or without a cap and gown? Send this to them.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

Megan Lendrum and Meagan Kribeiro are the makers behind the jewelry company, Daughters of the River. Introduced by a mutual friend, they ended up side by side at a creative market and, within weeks, became roommates, dear friends, and then business partners. 

Their story is a beautiful one - instead of treating each other as competition, they merged their client lists and skills, and built something even bigger and more beautiful together than either of them could have done alone. 

We talk about: the moment Megan started teaching Meagan wax casting instead of keeping her technique to herself; the jewelry program Megan got into and never attended because well-meaning family told her there was no money in art; the stranger Megan ran into at the grocery store wearing a ring she made four years earlier, at the exact moment she needed to hear it mattered; and the quote that runs their whole business - "when you have, give; when you learn, teach."

Watching two women build something together instead of guarding it from each other is its own kind of magic, and honestly, the opposite of how we're taught business is supposed to work.

Know two women who'd build something incredible together if they just met? Send them this.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

Hillory Tenute got divorced. No one cheated. No one lied. No one did anything wrong - they just grew into two different people, and chose to let each other go with love instead of a fight.

What struck me wasn't the divorce, it's that she let a marriage go while keeping the friend who happened to also be her ex-husband. 

We talk about: the surgery in 2020 that changed how she felt in her own body, and how that quietly reshaped her marriage for years before either of them said it out loud; the walk where they both cried and admitted, "there's no solution here"; selling the house and moving into her own place - what she calls her "Margie era," named for the grandmother who told her "never be the secretary, be the CEO"; the solo trip to Europe that was equal parts grief and celebration and meeting her now-partner and building Matchee Matchee together. 

Going through a separation and wondering if it has to end in a war? Have a listen. 

Know someone that could use this take on conscious uncoupling, share this with them.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

Sure, Amanda Ruddy knows how to throw a party, but this conversation is about so much more. It's about losing her mother to breast cancer and running an event three weeks later. It's about starting her event planning business and having to close it weeks later because of a global pandemic. It's about the grief-fueled resilience she didn't ask for, but used to keep going, smirking as she remembers thinking, "What's the worst that can happen? It already did."

We talk about: the six days between "she can come home from the hospital" and the phone call that changed everything; running Ottawa's Grey Cup Festival three weeks after her mother's funeral because she "couldn't not do it"; the moment in her dad's kitchen when she told him she was starting her own business, and how being "too fragile for anyone to tell her no" is what actually gave her the push; COVID hitting four months after her launch party, with zero income and a business too new to qualify for any support; the two years of building themed "party boxes" with local restaurants just to stay visible until doors reopened; and why she still believes someone's name can get them in the door, but it's not what keeps them there.

By the end of this one I wanted to reach out and give Amanda a ginormous hug. Six years ago she was tying ribbon on cardboard boxes. Now she's the person hundreds of people trust with the biggest day of their lives.

Know someone quietly rebuilding something after losing everything? This one's for them, please share it.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

Mom watched me unnecessarily rack up student debt in my twenties and made a choice most parents wouldn't: she let me handle it myself.

And I'm not the only one - she's done this for all three of her kids, in different ways at different times in our lives. Watching, quietly running a sort of threat assessment even to this day. 

We talk about: my student loan and how I moved to Calgary after my master's degree with no network, and why she chose not to bail me out; the different way Lorraine worried about her son growing up versus her daughters; the phone call that made me briefly wonder if mom's memory was slipping; what changes, and what doesn't, about a mother's worry once her kids become parents themselves; and Lorraine's one unapologetic cigar with Uncle Bruce on New Year's Day, decades after she quit smoking.

Hearing your mom admit she still worries about you at 48 doesn't feel like a burden. It feels like proof you're still hers.

Send this to your mom, or the person who loved you like only a mother can. 

Better yet, call them after you listen.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

Content warning: infant loss

When we left off, Emma Mitchell's daughter, Evie, had just been born at 23 weeks and 6 days. In part two, Emma picks up 118 days later - when the numbers finally stopped adding up, and she and Devin had to decide, together, how Evie's story would end.

Evie passed on December 10th; her due date had been December 5th; and by pure coincidence, the 10th was also Emma's mom's birthday - the birthday her mom always said Evie would be born on anyway. Emma calls it absurd to have to choose the day your child dies. She also calls it a gift she's grateful they got.

We talk about: the four-visitor hospital rule that meant Emma's own dad didn't meet his granddaughter for weeks; her brother Gordy, who found his own way to express his grief; the 43 minutes Evie lived after they removed her breathing support, spent singing to her and playing guitar; the six kangaroo care chairs the hospital bought after Emma pushed for them, so other families can hold their babies the way she wishes she'd been able to hold Evie more; and how she found her way back to herself six months later, on a pickleball court where nobody knew her story at all.

If you know someone carrying a loss like this, let them know you're still thinking of their baby. Emma told me that's the kindest thing anyone can do.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

Content warning: infant loss

Emma Mitchell spent years assuming motherhood wasn't in the cards for her - until a chest X-ray for a bad case of pneumonia led her to check, almost as an afterthought, and the test came back with the darkest line she'd ever seen.

What got me is how much had to go right just for Emma and her partner, Devin, to meet their daughter, Evie, at all - a scare at eight weeks that looked like a miscarriage, a cervix that kept shortening past the point doctors thought possible, and a hospital stay built around an infection nobody could fully explain, all before Evie arrived at 23 weeks and 6 days, weighing 660 grams - a little over a pound.

We talk about: the 14-and-a-half-hour wait in an emergency room, certain they'd already lost the pregnancy; the rare hospital protocol that tested for infection before stitching her cervix shut, and why that test likely gave Evie the time she got; the moment Evie's cord snapped from how fast she arrived, and hearing her cry when no one expected to; and the brochures the hospital hands parents at each gestational week showing the odds, and why Emma tore hers up the moment they turned 23 weeks.

Emma is telling this story with a kind of clarity and honesty I don't think I could manage in her place, and I'm so grateful she trusted me with it.

We're picking this up next week in part two - Evie's 118 days, and the family who never stopped showing up for her.

If this resonates and you know someone who's walked something like this road, this might be worth sending them - gently, and with care.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

@the_otherside_pod

Amira de Vera runs Project Four PR, the Toronto entertainment PR firm she founded in 2017, and she lives by something she calls the Burnt Toast Theory: every inconvience, missed exit, or delayed flight is protecting you from something you can't see yet.

And she traces this back through her life in many ways - from a toxic corporate PR job she quit on a hunch, to a devastating pandemic breakup that ended with a book called Trust the Universe literally showing up on her doorstep days later, to launching her own firm with eight freelance clients because her mom told her, "you're already doing it, just make it official."

We talk about: the difference between working hard and actually burning out, and how she's learned to tell which one she's in; representing Tom Cruise for a Toronto premiere and what he was actually like off-camera; her non-negotiable 5am morning routine; learning to sit with pain instead of outrunning it, after years of believing busy was the same thing as healed; and why she thinks nothing in her career, including the doors that slammed on her, has ever actually been random.

I left this conversation thinking of all my "burnt toast" moments, and an appreication for landing exactly where I have.

Know someone who feels like life keeps redirecting them? Send this episode their way.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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This month, Mom, Sis and I all read the same book - Being Mortal by Atul Gawande - and it cracked open something that led to our most vulnerable conversation about dad's death. One, for whatever reason, we hadn't had before. 

We talk about: the oncologist who cancelled Dad's fifth round of chemo because of COVID, then admitted almost offhand that, because of dad's circumstances, four rounds versus five barely mattered; the family GP who was the only person, ever, to ask Dad point-blank what he actually wanted; Dad's own baseline through all of it - "give me a fighting chance" - and why none of us would try to talk him out of it (even now); the book's line that if end-of-life conversations were an experimental drug, the FDA would approve them instantly; and what "off you go" has become as the three of us joke, darkly and lovingly, about how we each want to go out ourselves.

This wasn't an easy one to record, but I think it's the most honest we've ever been with each other about losing Dad - and about what we each want, now, before anyone has to guess.

If this makes you think of a conversation you haven't had yet with someone you love, let this be the nudge to go have it. 

And please share, especially if you know someone that's held a great loss.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Jen Alvarenga runs Good Story, the Ottawa real estate team she co-founded, and she'll tell a client not to buy the house they're already picturing their life in, if the numbers or the home don't actually add up for them.

What struck me is where that instinct comes from. Jen came to Canada from Honduras as an international student, translating her parents' government contract negotiations at 12 years old, and nearly got sent home mid-career when a border services officer called her in - only to tell her she was exactly the kind of person Canada wanted to keep.

We talk about: losing a high-end listing early in her career to an agent with more connections, and what she built instead of resenting it; the branding session where a firm told her, after interviewing her clients, that "Good Story" was the through-line in every single conversation they'd had; why she believes real estate can propel people forward instead of just being four walls and a roof; and how, inspired by cities like Copenhagen, she can see Ottawa's communities evolving if we show up for our local businesses.

Jen sees her city, and her clients' lives in it, with more care than almost anyone I've talked to, and I walked away wanting to actually use my front porch again.

Know someone about to buy or sell a home who needs an agent who'll tell them the truth, not just what they want to hear? Send them this one.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Brittany Gordon, the holistic nutritionist behind Healing Ginger, spent years telling her husband that kids were a hard pass. Then, somewhere around 37, without really deciding to, she started tracking her cycles. 

Deciding to become a mom at 40 is one thing, but this conversation is largely about what happens to your identity, and life, after. 

We talk about: the kitchen conversation where her husband first said he never wanted kids, and the years of check-ins that followed; going back to work at three months postpartum, because self-employed parents don't get maternity pay; the miscarriage that came before Lillian; the specific, gutting loneliness of new motherhood, including a friendship that formed entirely at the park, every single day, for a year, until her friend moved away; and how the "mom" piece of you takes over for a while, without erasing the rest of you.

I don't think anyone talks enough about what it's like to become a mother after you've already spent decades building an entirely different identity - and Brittany's honesty about how hard that reshuffling still is, two years in, is exactly the kind of conversation I wish more people got to have out loud.

Know someone who became a mom later in life and could use hearing they're not alone in the identity crisis that comes with it? Send them this one.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Amanda and Angie Cambareri opened Vincent Boutique (in Ottawa, ON) together  twelve years ago. They began with roughly $32,000 in inventory, and built their dream while working other jobs in-order to survive. And survive they did - not just as a business, but as sisters who are also the best of friends. 

What I wanted to talk to them about wasn't so much how they run a business, but how they run a business together. Amanda and Angie built their partnership on being opposites instead of trying to match each other, and when the ground shifted under the business last year, the same fear-of-not-doing-it instinct that got them to open a store in a recession is exactly what got them through it again.

We talk about: the late uncle neither of them ever met, and why his name ended up over the door; opening a boutique in the middle of a recession while working other jobs for the first three years to make it work; what it actually looks like to run a business with your sister, including how fast a real fight gets resolved between them; the one year out of twelve that Amanda calls harder than the year they opened, harder than the pandemic, and what actually caused it; and the new upstairs project they're building for whatever happens to a woman's body - and her closet - after 40.

I've been wearing a Frank and Eileen shirt I bought from Vincent almost ten years ago and I actually had it on to record this pod! Getting the full twelve-year story behind a shirt I've never once thought about retiring made me appreciate it, and the two of them, even more.

Got a sibling (or a business partner) you can have a full blowout fight with and be texting about dinner plans three hours later? Send them this one.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Erin Benjamin got her first guitar at five years old because of a dream she had - it was a pretty bang on sign given she went on to spend the better part of a decade touring as a singer-songwriter, opening for the likes of Gowan and Burton Cummings, before walking away from the stage entirely.

What I love about Erin isn't that she was courageous enough to change careers, it's watching her trace the exact same instinct through both halves of her life: the thing that made her good on a stage as a musician is the same thing that, years later, let her help fight for the survival of an entire industry as CEO of the Canadian Live Music Association. 

We talk about: the life-changing dream at five years old; the hallway conversation with a board of directors that accidentally became her second career, and the one condition she gave them before saying yes; what it actually took to run Canada's live music industry through COVID, and the campaign that got tens of millions written into a federal budget for live music venues for the first time in Canadian history; the first concert Erin went back to once everything reopened, and why she says she still hasn't fully recovered from that stretch; and what she thinks live music does for a room full of strangers that nothing else quite can.

By the end, Erin and I were both trading our own favourite concert memories - my Eras Tour night, her first show back after COVID - and I was reminded, again, how good it feels to listen to your favourites, live. 

Know someone who's quietly grieving a plan that didn't pan out the way they pictured it? Do me a favour and send them this one.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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I've wanted to go to South Africa since I was 16. I'm now 48 and still haven't gone. This week I sit down with mom, Lorraine, and sis, Danielle, to try to figure out why.

But this conversation isn't all travel talk - it's about making a will that got put off for decades because our dad was convinced that making one would kill him, and then we get into the real difference between being afraid to die and being afraid not to live.

What you'll hear about: mom's theory for why I still haven't book the South Africa trip; what happened right after mom and dad finally made their legal wills; the grandmother who quietly destroyed a paper will two generations back to make sure her daughters weren't left out, long before anyone was talking about that kind of thing; the Autobahn road trip that nearly ended on a bridge with no middle, and what it revealed about who in this family plans for worst-case and who just wants to see what happens; and Danielle's case for why a bucket list can do more harm than good.

If this one has you thinking about the friend who keeps putting off the trip or the parent who still won't talk about a will, do them both a favour and send this to them.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Donna Spurvey was 40, single, and done waiting for a partner to have a kid with. She took out a $50,000 loan for a fertility process that her clinic gave her a 5% to 10% chance of working. 

What strikes me about Donna isn't so much her decision to become a mom on her own, it's that she never once treated it like something to hide.

We talk about: the conversation on a park bench that ended one relationship and started the real plan; choosing a sperm donor from an online profile with her dad's help, and the one detail in a stranger's letter that made up her mind; the two half-siblings her daughter has connected with who live on two different continents, found through a donor registry; and why honesty was never up for debate in her house, starting the day her daughter was born.

Donna and I have known each other for over 20 years, and this conversation didn't just catch me up on her life, it reminded me of how watching her journey online helped my own sister and I have some of our most honest conversations about what building a family on your own terms actually looks like.

Know someone who's still waiting for the right circumstances, the right partner, the right time, to go after the thing they actually want? Do them a favour and send them this one.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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Amanda Thirkill's first day working as a full-time photographer was in March of 2020. Days later, the pandemic shut down every wedding and family shoot on her calendar. She didn't have a plan B - she just started saying yes to work she'd never done before.

What makes this conversation worth the hour isn't the timing, though, it's that this wasn't the only time Amanda has had to start completely over. A few years later she moved to Ottawa, a city where nobody recognized her name, her portfolio, or her years of experience, and had to rebuild all of it from scratch.

We talk about: the first time a friend offered to pay her for a photo; the pandemic contract with a U.S. alcohol brand that kept her business afloat when weddings disappeared overnight; what it actually felt like walking into Ottawa with over a decade of experience and a portfolio nobody there recognized; the International Women's Day portrait project she started to mark her first year in the city, now grown to fifteen women nominated by her own team; the broken Minolta camera that belonged to her dad, and why she tracked down the exact same model on eBay; and the one piece of advice she'd pass on to anyone chasing photography as a career.

I walked away from this one wanting to book my own session with Amanda - for the photos, of course, but also for her. We could have kept chatting for hours. 

Know someone who's had to start over from scratch - a move, a layoff, a business that didn't survive what hit it? Do me a favour and send them this one.

And if you'd like more from me - my coaching or my writing - you'll find both over on my website, or catch the more personal stuff on my Substack. 

See you next week, on The Other Side x

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On this episode Nadine welcomes Ottawa-based astrologer, Sarah Goldsmith, to the pod to explore astrology as a tool for mindfulness, storytelling, and personal growth rather than certainty. 

They chat about Sarah's background, how she became interested in astrology and how her approach blends modern and Hellenistic astrology, psychological theory, cycle awareness, and her own personal philosophy grounded in self-trust and mindful routine. 

Listen in as Nadine learns about natal charts, rising signs, whole sign houses, transits, and techniques like perfections. Together they walk through the language, the meanings, and themes, and then demystify Mercury retrograde because what is an episode on astrology without talking about that ;D

For a reading, or if you're simply curious, you can check Sarah out here. 

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Mom and sis are back, and this week we asked mom how she managed to stay in love with the same person for over 50 years - our dad <3

Though she says there's no magic formula, she tells us of the importance of trust, mutual respect, being in-tune with one another, and having a deep love that supersedes those days when you don't like each other very much. 

As mom reflects on the reality of raising kids and working - the exhaustion, the uneven load mothers can carry, the moments of resentment - she tells us how a marriage can survive those all consuming years by perseverance and finding time, even small moments, for your relationship in-between everything else. 

This conversation also highlights the importance of friendship and community in our lives, along with Lorraine’s belief in independence, including the secret bank account she kept for decades “just in case,” (you'll have to listen to hear the details on this!). 

At the heart of this episode is mom’s certainty that love is a feeling you can't control, make-up, or ignore. You either feel it or you don't. And if you're lucky to come upon it, you will keep choosing each other over life's constant changes. 

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This week we talk with Lori Brooks, a dear friend of Nadine's who graciously came onto the pod to talk about what it means to live through repeated loss on the road to becoming a mom. 

Lori always knew she wanted kids, and after experiencing a long period of trying to conceive, she miscarried the first time just 6 weeks into her pregnancy. Two more miscarriages later, Lori takes us through each one, sharing the lived experience, but also the depression that followed and the pressure she felt to "stay positive".

Throughout this talk she candidly describes the isolation and awkwardness of miscarriage, why many people don’t talk about it, and how insensitive comments can land. Lori explains that causes of miscarriages are often unknown, how self-blame takes hold, and how she coped with cycles of anger, grief, and attempts to “fix” fertility through lifestyle changes and alternative therapies.

Lori's fertility story ends with the joy of twins - something that happened after a second round of IUI. While this is the happy ending she dreamt about, she normalizes not getting the pregnancy experience she hoped for, explains how it was shaped by her previous losses, and then leaves the pod with practical guidance for supporting someone through miscarriage: show up, be curious, take cues, offer tangible help, and make room for both grief and joy without forcing optimism.

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Erin is back! If you haven't listened to Erin's first TOS podcast, TOS of a Cancer Diagnosis, go have a listen to episode #2 and prepare to fall in love with her. She's incredibly special, and smart, and interesting, and here to tell us how's she doing and to talk all things Tarot.

The first 15 minutes-ish of this episode I check in and get an update on all things Erin, which she so generously shares, before we delve into the mystical, magical world of Tarot. How do we transition from stage four cancer and brain radiation into Erin's passion for tarot reading? You'll just have to listen to find out.

Erin has been curious about Tarot most of her life, an interest that began when she stumbled upon her grandmother's cards. As someone who is interested but intimidated by them, I ask Erin everything from the origins, to particular card meanings to different ways to read them and the personal significance of certain cards to her over her lifetime.

As always, Erin surprises me with her interpretation, and teaches me to allow for more softness, flexibility and curiosity in Tarot, and in life.

For those interested, she is available for individual tarot readings (whether over video call or in-person in Hamilton, ON). Contact her at erintarotreading@gmail.com.

As promised in the show, you can read her essay, Cancer Floats, here x

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How does it feel to reach the age of retirement when you’ve spent your career strongly identifying with your profession? What happens when our value becomes untangled from what we ‘do’ to who we actually are? How do folks navigate that shift and what things arise when we find ourselves on the other side of our career? These are the questions that were floating around my mind when I asked my dear friend, Fraser, to sit down for a chat. 

Fraser Valentine, a senior leader in the Canadian Federal Public Service, hops on the pod for an open and honest conversation around his upcoming retirement. We delve into his journey from childhood aspirations to the significant roles he has held, particularly in Immigration and Refugee Affairs, and the challenges and rewards of his profession. Reflecting on personal experiences, including dealing with the loss of his father and coming out, Fraser contemplates the shift from a career-driven life to embracing retirement with gratitude and curiosity. 

This podcast touches on themes of purpose, transition, and the importance of making meaningful contributions beyond one’s careers.

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Mom & sis are back for a light-hearted discussion about our own personal fitness stories, sharing how different forms of movement like running, Pilates, and dance classes impact our lives. 

In a world where everything feels quite heavy, and at a time when the most awful humans are getting a lot of attention, we felt a need to remind ourselves of the good people around us and the importance of social connections and community.

While we also explore the pressures of diet culture and body image issues, this episode is meant to bring levity and serve as a good reminder of how we feel when we get off of our phones and go into our communities to connect.

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This week's lively discussion is brought to you by Chantal Sarkisian, an Armenian-Canadian influencer better known as Chantsy online! 

Listen in as Nadine and Chantal delve into the behind-the-scenes of what it means to be a social media influencer. Their conversation starts from the beginning, with Chantal's early experience as a blogger, then discusses her transition to Instagram and TikTok, diving into the realities of managing sponsored content while keeping true to personal values, particularly in the realms of body positivity and mid-size fashion. 

Chantal shares her experiences with creating authentic, relatable content, and the challenges of maintaining a balance between personal life and a public persona. 

As two women who love (like, LOVE) fashion, they get into the evolving landscape of body representation in the industry and the importance of persistence, authenticity, and kindness in navigating that world as a midsize fashion influencer. 

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In this week's episode of The Other Side Pod, Karla Briones hops on to chat about the side of entrepreneurship that isn't so pretty. The burnout. The decisions we make when we lose connection with ourselves. The challenges that immigrant entrepreneurs face. The guilt that can be easily felt when juggling motherhood, and the directions we go when we've lost our purpose and how to come to the decision to change course.

Karla has started multiple businesses over her extensive career, and shares with us the joy of opening her first (Global Pet Foods), the frustration of starting her second (Freshii), and finally the overwhelming sense of landing in the exact right place with her non-profit, Immigrant Entrepreneur Canada, who's mandate is to empower and accelerate the impact and success of immigrant entrepreneurs in Canada. 

This conversation is for anyone, entrepreneur or not, who has lived the ups and downs, or perhaps are finding themselves a little lost. Now in their 40s, Karla and Nadine share a fresh perspective on finding their groove with a sense of purpose that can only come with time, consistency, support and staying rooted in one's mission and passion. 

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It's the first pod of 2026 and what better way to start a new year than a conversation with Florence Maheu; Canadian slalom kayaker, Olympian, and just the loveliest human with a refreshing perspective on life.

Recently retired from an 18 year career as a professional athlete, Flo takes us behind the scenes and tells us how she first discovered (and fell in love with) kayaking and walks us through the realities of her rigorous training and travel schedule and how, during those demanding years, she also managed to grow up,  attend university, meet a partner, and attempt to stay connected with her family and friends. 

We also talk about her experience at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics (which were actually held in 2021 because of COVID) and how she made the decision to retire, drawing parallels between her previous career and her current one at the Ottawa Police Service.

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Happy New Year's Eve from mom, sis and I! 

Join us for this special holiday episode to hear our thoughts and expectations for this coming New Year, as well as anecdotes about past resolutions, generational differences in goal setting, and personal shifts in mindset. Of course we also offer tips on surviving the winter in Newfoundland (and Canada in general!), touching on the importance of connection and community. 

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On this nostalgic Christmas Eve, sisters Nadine and Danielle, along with their cousin, Amy, share their memorable, often chaotic experiences working at a housewares and gift shop in St. John's, Newfoundland during their high school and university days.  

Reflecting on their long hours, challenging customers and youthful first-job antics, these three share insights into the exhaustion and camaraderie of retail work during the holiday season. Through humorous and heartfelt stories about Midnight Madness, pricing Christmas ornaments in the summer, and the mayhem of Boxing Day sales, they emphasize the importance of being kind to service workers, especially at this time of year. Oh, and they'd be remiss not to tell you to stop trying to do exchanges/returns on Boxing Day. Have a heart. 

And, of course, Merry Christmas! 

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Mandie Vossenberg is back on the pod to talk about dead parents, but make it festive?!

The holidays bring about a lot of feelings, especially if you've lost someone, so Nadine and Mandie wanted to share how they've been feeling in hopes that if you can relate, you won't feel so alone in it. 

In this heartfelt episode, they share a candid conversation about dealing with grief during the holiday season, recounting personal experiences, from the sadness and tears to the unexpected moments of joy and nostalgia that the season brings. 

The conversation also touches on personal growth, setting boundaries, and finding solace in various forms of communication with friends and family. They offer gentle advice for those who have recently lost loved ones, emphasizing the importance of processing grief at one’s own pace and finding supportive communities. 

Amidst all, there's a shared sense of resilience and the ability to find joy again.

Happy Holidays x

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We are officially into the Holiday Season so I thought it was a great time to chat with Tesia Bryski and Alyssa Malizia, psychotherapists and the Co-Directors at Shine Mental Health Collective in Ottawa, ON. This time of year can be challenging for many for a multitude of reasons, so in this episode we wanted to share some insights into psychotherapy, access, the impact of the holidays on mental health and the ways in which we can take care of ourselves during a busy time of year. 

In this conversation I wanted to turn the tables and ask the psychotherapists the questions; how did they find their way to this career? how do they take care of themselves after taking care of others? what is it like to supervise? and finally, do they ever take one side of a couple's argument during couple's therapy? (I HAD TO ASK!). 

We also chat about the role AI is playing in mental health and finally, if sitting on the couch seems too much for you right now, both Tesia and Alyssa leave us with some tips that we can use to help us through the holidays.

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Meet Jess Packman, hair enthusiast and stylist at JetBlack Hair Studio, who also happens to no longer suffer wildly every month since having a hysterectomy! Nadine and Jess, like many people who happen to have uteruses, have had a complicated relationship with them and hopped on the podcast to talk about their decisions to have them removed due to severe endometriosis and adenomyosis. Listen in as both women share their own personal stories, which are very different from each other but so similar to many folks out there. The journey to a hysterectomy is not an easy one - and women's health care is confusing AT BEST. In discussing their individual experiences through pain, misdiagnosis, ineffective treatments and the emotional rollercoaster of trying to conceive, Nadine and Jess hope that their years of agony and systemic healthcare struggles will add to the important conversation that highlights the power of understanding female reproductive health issues, advocating for oneself, and finding compassionate medical care. 

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It's the last Wednesday of the month so you know what that means. Mom and sis are back! And this time we're talking body image and aging. 

Listen in as the three of us, being women in our 40s, 50s, and 70s, discuss our independent decisions to age naturally in a world constantly promoting fillers, Botox, and surgeries. Each of us discuss our own personal journeys toward self-acceptance, and share insights on how we've built our relationships with our imperfect bodies, embracing the physical changes that come naturally with age while highlighting the importance of mental health and self-compassion along the way.

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Ever been fired? Jen has, twice! And both times that it happened to her she wished she had someone she could relate to, so she's sharing her story in case she can be that someone for you. 

In this episode Jen recounts her journey of being terminated from two significant jobs and how those experiences shaped both her, and her career. A human rights investigator and lawyer based in Ottawa, Jen walks us through the impact these moments had on her psyche, how she got herself through those first few days and weeks post termination, and how she turned those adversities into stepping stones, eventually starting her own successful business specializing in workplace and sports investigations.

This conversation highlights the importance of resilience, the support of friends and family, and ultimately finding fulfillment through reinventing one's career. 

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Meet Ashley Wittig, brainchild behind Honey's Ice Cream in Toronto, ON and holder of my heart through said ice cream. In this episode, Ashley shares her journey from vegan bakery owner to vegan ice cream maker/Honey's creator, taking us through her creative process (seriously, how does she continually make us drool with those flavour combinations?!) and the challenges she has faced in both her previous and current businesses. 

When hopping on this call I wanted to know how Ashley came to the decision to sell a bakery that was doing incredibly well and then how she decided to jump back into an industry that she knew, but go from the oven to the freezer. We end up talking about so much more, including a little on her personal life (she's recently married) why she advises you not to move for your boyfriend (:P) and how loss has influenced her path. 

Ashley is passionate about her craft and continues to innovate in the world of vegan ice cream. Go grab a scoop. A pint. A pie. And send some to me in a refrigerated truck. Pleaseeeeeeee. 

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Meet Kirsten Duke, a 39-year-old mother of three, who carried four babies and helped create two separate, but forever linked, families. The Other Side of Surrogacy - aka, the one that made Nadine cry. 

In this episode Kirsten generously shares her remarkable journey as a surrogate mother. Starting from the beginning (seeing a TikTok video with two hopeful fathers from Spain) she then walks us through the medical screenings, the legal and logistical processes, the experience of carrying a baby that isn't your own, and that moment of joy she experienced when she finally handed over a healthy baby girl to two fathers she had come to love as family.  

Kirsten's story is a testament to kindness, sacrifice and the importance of humanity and community. 

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