With Dr. Matthew Halsted

After the Amalekites attacked Ziklag and took captive David's wives and other people, David and his men pursued and defeated the Amalekites, recovering all of the captives and goods. Meanwhile, Saul and his men were defeated and killed by the Philistines. David buried Saul and his sons with honor. Listen to find out how the gospel of Jesus can be found in these later chapters.

With Dr. Matthew Halsted

1 Samuel 29 tells the story of David's rejection by the Philistines. David had been living in exile with the Philistines after being anointed king of Israel by the prophet Samuel. The Philistines were preparing for battle against Israel, and David had been invited to join them in the fight. However, some of the Philistine leaders were suspicious of David and feared that he might betray them. They convinced Achish, the king of Gath, to send David and his men back home.

With Dr. Michael Brown

David, fearing for his life after Saul has tried to kill him twice, goes to Jonathan, Saul's son, to ask for help. Jonathan promises to help David and to warn him if Saul plans to harm him. Jonathan and David make a covenant of friendship and loyalty. David then leaves and goes into hiding. In this episode, Dr. Brown gives us some semitic insights on a hebrew word that could be translated differently and takes on how the cultural wars misinterpret passages like in 1 Samuel 20.

The Bedrock of Christianity with Dr. Justin Bass

Dr. Justin Bass is a scholar of biblical studies and apologetics. In particular, his work addresses the weaknesses of Jesus mythicism and skepticism about the resurrection of Jesus. He is currently teaching at Dallas Christian College and teaching courses online at Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary in Jordan and Asian Christian Academy in India. For more about Dr. Bass go to Justin W. Bass (justinwbass.com)

In this episode we chat with Dr. Bass about his book The Bedrock of Christianity, in which he demonstrates that the supernatural claims of Christianity are not late traditions added to the New Testament but are demonstrably early—a fact that is not denied by nearly all historians and liberal theologians. Consequently, the fact that early followers of Jesus believed in the death, resurrection, and post-resurrection appearances undermines not only Jesus mythicism, but forces skeptical scholars to explain where early Christians got such ideas and why those beliefs spawned a faith that spread over the entire world.

The Bedrock of Christianity: The Unalterable Facts of Jesus’ Death and Resurrection

Discount Code: BEDROCK  gives 30% off on Logos or paperback and lasts until the end of the month (June 2021).

Revelation 10 is a hiatus from the trumpet judgments. The chapter describes a “mighty angel” who holds a scroll that the awestruck John will take from his hand and eat. This odd language has Old Testament precedent in Ezekiel. However, it is the angel that has drawn the most attention from scholars. This angel is simultaneously described with phrases that have occurred earlier in the book—in descriptions of God and Jesus. Is this confusion on John’s part, or a theological contradiction? This episode addresses those questions.

Revelation 9 reveals John’s vision of the fifth and six trumpet judgments. Several interpretive issues are immediately apparent? What is the nature of the angel with the key to the bottomless pit (Rev 9:1)? Is this angel the same or different than that in Rev 9:11 or Abbadon/Apollyon? Who or what is being released from the bottomless pit (Rev 9:3-11)? These questions take the reader into the wider question of whether Revelation’s apocalyptic descriptions should be read in terms of modern analogies. In this episode we discern how the release of evil supernatural beings from the bottomless pit has clear connections to how Second Temple Jewish texts and 2 Peter describe the imprisoned Watchers, the sons of God of Genesis 6:1-4 infamy, and how the odd descriptions of those beings in insect and animal form have clear, abundant antecedents in the Old Testament.

Revelation 8 begins the vision of the first six trumpets. In Part 1 of our look at this chapter, we looked at features of the first six verses, such as the Lamb’s opening of the seventh and final seal on the scroll from Revelation, the accompanying silence in heaven 5, and the seven angels in the scene. In Part 2 we discuss verses 7-13, a description of the first four trumpet judgments. The Old Testament context of these four trumpet judgments reveals clear connections to the exodus plagues and the Deuteronomy 32 worldview.

Revelation 8 begins the vision of the first six trumpets. The sequence is kicked off by the Lamb’s opening of the seventh and final seal on the scroll from Revelation 5. The chapter raises some immediate questions: How are we to understand the silence in heaven? Who are the seven angels? Do the ensuing trumpet judgments have an Old Testament context? This episode of the podcast answers these questions and prepare us for the judgment sequence through the remainder of Revelation 8 and Revelation 9.

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.

This episode continues our discussion of Revelation 7 and the 144,000. The discussion includes Revelation 14, a second passage referencing the 144,000. This latter passage adds an interesting descriptive detail, one that leads some scholars to wonder if the 144,000 have some relationship to the Book of the Watchers (1 Enoch), a work that elaborates on the fall of the sons of God of Gen 6:1-4. This question leads our episode, but we also discuss the early church tradition about the omission of the tribe of Dan from the tribes from which the 144,000 derive. Is the omission an indication that the Antichrist comes from Dan? Lastly, we consider the reference in Rev 7:13-14 to the “great tribulation”; what is the Old Testament context for this phrase?

Revelation 7 is the first of two passages in the book that refer to the 144,000. The passage bristles with questions. Who are these individuals, 12,000 from 12 tribes of Israel? Should we understand the 144,000 literally or metaphorically, or both? Why is the tribe of Dan omitted from the list? Why are the tribes of Joseph and Manasseh mentioned, when Manasseh (with Ephraim) constituted the tribe of Joseph? Why the tribal arrangement at all? Might the 144,000 still represent the Church and the twelve apostles? Are the 144,000 specially protected as the apocalypse plays out? In this episode we begin our journey into these and other questions with a specific eye to the role of the Old Testament in John’s thinking and theology.

Reading Moses, Seeing Jesus, with Seth Postell

According to Acts 15 the Jerusalem church concluded that Gentile believers do not have to keep the Law to be in right relationship with the God of Israel. Nevertheless, many Gentile believers today wonder whether their love for Yeshua (Jesus) and faithfulness as his followers ought to be expressed by observing the Law. What of Jewish believers in Jesus? Does Acts 15 assume that Jewish believers in Yeshua must be Torah observant? Did not Jesus and Paul teach believers to “do and observe” the Law? What about New Testament passages that suggest believers are not under the Law, and that the Law became obsolete with the making of the new covenant (Heb. 8: 6– 13)? Dr. Seth Postell joins us today to answer these and other questions. The conversation focuses on his important (and highly recommended) book, Reading Moses, Seeing Jesus: How the Torah Fulfills its Goal in Yeshua (co-authored with Eitan Bar and Erez Soref). His thesis is straightforward: The purpose of the Torah, Genesis through Deuteronomy, is that it is an historical narrative whose purpose is to lead Israel through the broken Law and beyond, namely, to Yeshua, the Messiah. Dr. Postell is a key leader at One for Israel, a multi-faceted non-profit ministry with the express goal of reaching Israelis and Arabs with the good news of Yeshua. He is also Academic Dean at Israel College of the Bible, the only Hebrew-speaking evangelical Bible college in the world.

Discount Code: SEEINGJESUS  gives 30% off on Logos or paperback and lasts until the end of the month (April 2021).

Reading Moses, Seeing Jesus: How the Torah Fulfills its Goal in Yeshua

Revelation 6 introduces the reader to the unsealing of the scroll of Revelation 5. The first such act unleashes the four horsemen of the apocalypse. A variety of Old Testament passages and images are involved in the ensuing description of the terrible events that follow. In this episode, we look again at John’s use of the Old Testament to describe God’s eschatological judgment on the world.

We talk to Greg Lyle and Drenna Heiser from Dr. Heiser's non-profit, Miqlat. Greg and Drenna give us updates on future projects of Miqlat and Drenna tells us the story of how brave Mike was when they first met. To support Miqlat please goto Miqlat.org.

Many presume the scene in Revelation 5 of the Lamb standing before the throne of God is an enthronement ceremony. The one seated on the throne (God) has a scroll in his right hand, sealed with seven seals. Only the Lamb of God, standing before the throne, who is the risen messiah (Lion of Judah, Root of David) is worthy to open the seals. But if we look closely, we see that the Lamb does not occupy the throne, nor is he later seated on the throne as the seals are opened. This episode considers John’s use of the Old Testament in Revelation 5 and some of the incongruities in the way the passage is often understood.

This episode, the third installment of our discussion of the Old Testament in Revelation 4, has a singular point of focus: the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4. Who or what are the twenty-four elders? What do they symbolize? What is their intended meaning? This episode explores the interpretive options and how each might derive from Old Testament content.

This episode continues our discussion of Revelation 4, a heavenly council/courtroom scene structured after the divine council scene of Daniel 7 (Part 1). But Daniel 7 is far from the only passage used by John. In this episode we’ll discover how John repurposes imagery of the cherubim of Ezekiel 1, the encounter with God at Sinai in Exodus 19, the seraphim of Isaiah 6, and the rainbow of Genesis 9. The vision of the cherubim chariot-throne (Merkabah) of Ezekiel 1 is especially noteworthy, and takes our study into the subject of astral prophecy.

Revelation 4 is the well know scene of the Lamb of God, the heavenly throne, and the 24 elders. Less well known is the fact that this scene and its elements have a specific Old Testament context: the covenant lawsuit genre. There is a strong scholarly consensus about the covenant lawsuit elements, and its use in divine council scenes in the Old Testament. Once such scene is Daniel 7:9-28, where the text specifically describes multiple thrones in a heavenly council (“court”), assembled to render judgment (Dan 7:9-10). Revelation 4 has more than a dozen parallels to Daniel 7, presented in the same order. This episode introduces us to the covenant lawsuit genre as the backdrop to Revelation 4.

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.

In this episode we welcome back some familiar guests to the podcast for updates on their ministries. The episode has two parts. Fern and Audrey return to the podcast to talk about the launch of their new online curriculum, accompanied by Brenda, a consultant for the project, and Marie, who served as a beta tester for the first course. The long-awaited curriculum is part of Discovering Mercy, Fern and Audrey’s ministry to trauma sufferers. Our other guest is T. Dirk Smith, Vice President of EEM.org, a ministry that prints Bibles in over twenty languages for free distribution throughout Eastern Europe and beyond. Despite the pandemic (or perhaps because of it), EEM has seen a remarkable increase in desire for Scripture in those countries in which it operates.

Fern & Audrey are no longer associated with Discovering Mercy. Fern & Audrey are still helping survivors. You can contact them at fernandaudrey@discoveringmelearningcenter.org

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Part 2 of our in-depth look into the role played by the Old Testament in Revelation 3 focuses the otherworldly “keys” in Rev 3:7 (“who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens” and its earlier counterpart, Rev 1:18 (“[I am] the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades). What are these keys? What does the metaphor represent? Are Death and Hades places or entities, or both? How does earlier Old Testament material help us understand what John is saying?

Revelation 3 contains John’s letters to Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea. John uses the Old Testament in a number of places in these letters. Some have been discussed in earlier episodes of this series on the use of the Old Testament in the book of Revelation. Our discussion in this episode, Part 1 of Revelation 3, focuses on phrases not yet discussed (e.g., “they will walk with me in white” … “white garments” … the “Book of Life” … “hour of trial”). Part 2 will be a concentrated look at save for Rev 3:7’s reference to the “key of David” in conjunction with Rev 1:18, the “keys of Death and Hades.”

Revelation 2:8-29 contain the letters to the churches of Smyrna, Pergamum, and Thyatira. A number of content items in these verses draws on items discussed in episode 360 (Rev 2:1-7). In this episode, we rehearse some of that older content, comment briefly on the “synagogue of Satan” phrase, but ultimately focus on new connections to the Old Testament: the believer’s reception of “hidden manna,” a “white stone,” and a “new name.”

Virtual Tour and Images of the Pergamon Altar

This episode resumes our series on the Old Testament in the book of Revelation. Revelation 2 raises questions about the identity of the angels in the early chapters of the book, an identification that is linked to the lampstands. As noted in earlier episodes, the lampstands have a distinct supernatural (members of God’s council) context, drawn from the Old Testament. How does that context work in Revelation 2-3, where John is instructed to write to the angel of each church? In addition, who are the Nicolaitans? In this episode we explore how the Old Testament contributes to answers.

With Dr. Justin Bass

Saul became increasingly jealous of David and tried to kill him. Jonathan, Saul's son, tried to protect David and warned him of Saul's plans. David fled from Saul and went into hiding. Michal, Saul's daughter, helped David escape by letting him down from a window. Saul sent messengers to David's house to watch him and kill him, but Michal tricked the messengers by putting a fake image in David's bed. David escaped and went to Samuel at Ramah.

The Myth Made Fact with Dr. Louis Markos

Should Christians read classical mythology? Such material is, after all, pagan (i.e., non-Christian) and has a great deal to say about what Greeks and Romans believed about their gods—gods opposed to the God of Israel and Jesus. If we were only to look at how classical mythology departs from biblical truth, the answer seems easy. But why is it that those pagan stories so often sound like biblical stories from both the Old and New Testament? The early church fathers were well versed in classical mythology, and often saw biblical truth embedded in the material—and wondered if God had providentially intended that to be the case. In this episode of the podcast, we take a deep dive into these and related issues with Dr. Louis Markos as we discuss his new book, Myth Made Fact: Reading Greek and Roman Mythology Through Christian Eyes.

**Special offer until March 31, 2021**  *Order The Myth Made Fact and use code MMFListener to receive 15% off.*

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.

Were Adam and Eve historical people? Is their historicity compatible with genetic science’s findings about human origins? This episode continues our discussion of whether a historical Adam and Eve is compatible with genetic science. Our guest is once again Dr. S. Joshua Swamidass. Dr. Swamidass is an M.D. and Ph.D. research scientist. His recent book, published by InterVarsity Press, is entitled, The Genealogical Adam and Eve: The Surprising Science of Universal Ancestry. Contrary to other Christian biologists, whose research in the last twenty years has led some apologetics ministries to deny the historicity of Adam and Eve, Dr. Swamidass argues that a historical Adam and Eve is quite possible and not in conflict with genetic science. In Part 2 of our conversation, we get into the specifics of Dr. Swamidass’s hypothesis and how it could be sustained by the biblical text and be congruent with biblical theology.

**Use code NBP40 on IVPress’ website to purchase The Genealogical Adam and Eve: The Surprising Science of Universal Ancestry  and receive a 40% discount and free shipping in the U.S. until 1/15/21.**

Were Adam and Eve historical people? Is their historicity compatible with genetic science’s findings about human origins? This episode is the first of a two-part interview with Dr. S. Joshua Swamidass. Dr. Swamidass is an M.D. and Ph.D. research scientist. His recent book, published by InterVarsity Press, is entitled, The Genealogical Adam and Eve: The Surprising Science of Universal Ancestry. Contrary to other Christian biologists, whose research in the last twenty years has led some apologetics ministries to deny the historicity of Adam and Eve, Dr. Swamidass argues that a historical Adam and Eve is quite possible and not in conflict with genetic science. His book proposes that the information gleaned from the study of our biology via the tools of science be allowed to tell one story of humanity, a genetic ancestry, while Scripture be allowed to tell its own human story, one that knows only genealogical ancestry. The two stories follow similar trajectories and ultimately entwine, but they are nonetheless different. In Part 1 of our conversation, we learn about Dr. Swamidass and his background, faith, and the path that led to his fascinating book.

**Use code NBP40 on IVPress’ website to purchase The Genealogical Adam and Eve: The Surprising Science of Universal Ancestry  and receive a 40% discount and free shipping in the U.S. until 1/15/21.**

This episode in our series on John’s use of the Old Testament in the book of Revelation looks at Rev 1:7-20. In these verses John repurposes the divine council scene in Daniel 7, specifically the descriptions of the Ancient of Days and the Son of man. He also takes readers to Isaiah 11 and 49 and Zechariah 4. John seeks to remind his readers that Jesus is the risen divine warrior, God in flesh, risen and victorious on their behalf.

This episode continues our series on John’s use of the Old Testament in the book of Revelation. We resume with material in Rev 1:4 not covered in the previous episode and move the discussion into verses 5-6. What is the relationship of the seven churches to the seven spirits before God’s throne? How do they relate to the seven lampstands and stars in verses 12-16? What passages from the Old Testament is John alluding to and why?

Our series on the Old Testament in the book of Revelation opens with Rev 1:4a, where we find the phrase “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” The phrase is repeated in Rev 1:8 where parts of it are defined in an important way. Scholars are in general agreement that John gets the phrase from the Septuagint (LXX) Exod 3:14, but that verse accounts for only one-third of John’s wording. Where does the remainder come from? Why would John draw on Exod 3:14? What point was he trying to make?

This episode launches our new series on the use of the Old Testament in the book of Revelation. The series will not examine end times theories or systems. It will also not propose a new system for interpreting the book of Revelation for discerning what God is doing now or in the future. Rather, we focus on how the author of Revelation frequently dipped into the Old Testament to create the book of Revelation and how understanding his strategies in doing so helps us understand what the book is saying.

BOOK: AN ADVENT FOR THE COSMOS

In earlier episodes (322, 334) we chatted with Professor Louis Markos about how the cosmologies of The Lord of the Rings and Milton’s Paradise Lost compare and contrast with the biblical worldview described by Dr. Heiser in The Unseen Realm. In this episode we welcome Professor Michael Jahosky to discuss his book The Good News of the Return of the King: The Gospel in Middle Earth. Professor Jahosky’s thesis is that “The Lord of the Rings is a parable about what Jesus’s parables are about, which is the very story of reality itself.” Join us as we discuss mythic literature, the New Testament, and insights into how Tolkien’s masterpiece reveals his insights into the person and work of Christ.

Use CONF2020 which will give those interested in purchasing a 40% discount and free media mail shipping. **This special offer is available to all of our titles for orders made through the Wipf and Stock Publishers website and will expire at the end of the year (2020).**

One of the more important Hebrew words familiar to Christians is ḥesed, usually translated “lovingkindness” or “steadfast love” in English Bibles. The term certainly conveys those ideas, but those translation options don’t convey the basis of God’s lovingkindness. In like manner, when the term is used of how people are expected to respond to God such translations don’t convey how believers are to show that lovingkindness. In this episode of the podcast, we explore some possible ways to understand ḥesed in relation to believing loyalty, a phrase introduced in Dr. Heiser’s book, The Unseen Realm (Lexham Press, 2015) to describe the believer’s salvation relationship to God across both the Old and New Testament.

With Dr. Justin Bass

After David defeated Goliath, Saul became jealous of David's popularity and success. Jonathan, Saul's son, became close friends with David. Saul gave his daughter Merab in marriage to David, but then gave her to another man. Michal, Saul's other daughter, fell in love with David and they were married.

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.

Relevance Theory and Biblical Interpretation with John Hilber

Christians talk a lot about interpreting the Bible in context, but that goal is fraught with difficulties, some which are preventable, and others that are self-imposed. One of the most obvious obstacles is the disconnection between the worldview of the biblical writers and their original audience and modern Bible students. Despite the transparency of this problem, no textbooks on biblical hermeneutics focus on the problem and how it might be solved. In this episode of the podcast, we chat with Dr. John Hilber about the obstacle and its solution, both of which received sustained attention in his new book, Old Testament Cosmology and Divine Accommodation: A Relevance Theory Approach (Wipf and Stock, 2020).

Listeners can get Dr. Hilber’s book for 40% off only by going to the Wipf and Stock website and applying the coupon code DIVINE at checkout. **Offer valid November 1st-30th, 2020**

The story of Jonah being swallowed by a “great fish” (misunderstood as a whale) is familiar to Bible readers and those in the wider culture who have never read the Bible. Given the flexibility of the Hebrew phrase behind “great fish” (dag gadol), scholars have wondered whether Jonah connects back to biblical Leviathan, the well-know chaos serpent of Canaanite literature. In this episode we explore the potential connections.

It’s common for scholars and critics of New Testament presentations of the birth of Jesus to suggest that the idea of a divine Israelite messiah goes beyond what the Old Testament envisions. The most Jews would expect, so this thinking goes, is a military deliverer who was descended from the line of David, a mere human whom God adopts as his son. This episode provides a glimpse into the data that tell us otherwise. In Luke 1, the gospel writer portrays Jesus as more than a human, Davidic military deliverer.

Ezekiel and John 15, the Vine and the Branches

Jesus’ allegory about the vine and the branches, ultimately about himself (the vine) and those who would claim to be his disciples (the branches) is quite familiar to Bible readers. Far less familiar is the fact that the content of Jesus’ teaching draws on the Old Testament. Scholars, aware of this fact, nevertheless disagree as to which Old Testament passage is the primary point of reference. This episode of the podcast addresses that issue and demonstrates how its answer informs our understanding of the theological points Jesus (and the gospel writer, John) want to make in John 15.

Gentile inclusion is a familiar theme in the salvation plan of God. Bible students are generally aware that the idea is found in the Old Testament, typically in places like Gen 12:3. But the psalms are another fruitful (and even surprising) source for this trajectory in biblical theology. In today’s episode we take a look at the Zion Hymns in the Psalms and what it means for how we should think about Israel’s role (abd perhaps our own) in God’s salvation plan.

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.

In our last episode we saw how the Gospel of John repurposed parts of Ezekiel (chs. 34, 37:15-28) to describe Jesus as the Good Shepherd who would fulfill the role of God and King David as the rightful shepherd(s) of Israel. As we’ll see in this episode, John uses Ezekiel elsewhere, specifically the prophecy of the dry bones being restored to life (Ezek 37:1-4). While we think of this passage as speaking of the future resurrection of the dead, John thinks more broadly about how Jesus connects to the passage.

John 10 is one of the more familiar passages in the Gospel bearing that name. The chapter presents Jesus in bold ways. Listeners have already heard Dr. Heiser’s thoughts on the latter item (John 10:30-38), where Jesus quotes Psalm 82 in defense of his deity-oneness with the Father. In this episode of the podcast we take a closer look at John 10 and its treatment of Jesus as the Good Shepherd, specifically in terms of how Jesus / John repurpose material from Ezekiel 34 and 37.

Hebrews 12:1 opens with a familiar exhortation: “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us. . . .” Most discussion in church and Bible studies focuses on the struggle with sin, with the “cloud of witnesses” is usually interpreted as the believers in the preceding chapter. This episode of the podcast explores contextual clues in Hebrews 2 and 12, and the Old Testament context of Psalm 89 to support the conclusion that there’s much more going on in Heb 12:1, specifically with respect to the biblical theology of the divine council.

With Dr. Justin Bass

The Philistines and Israelites were at war. Goliath, a giant Philistine warrior, challenged the Israelites to send a champion to fight him. David, a young shepherd boy, volunteered to fight Goliath. David defeated Goliath with a sling and a stone, and the Israelites were victorious. This passage teaches us that God can use anyone, no matter how young or insignificant they may seem, to accomplish His purposes.

We’ve noted many times how the New Testament draws on the Old Testament for its content. Some books stand out in that regard. The Gospel of Matthew is one of them. Long regarded as the most Jewish gospel due to its numerous hooks into the Old Testament, Matthew was especially fond of the book of Exodus. In this episode, we’ll take a trip through Matthew to see how frequently Matthew utilizes Exodus and Moses imagery and episodes in his presentation of Jesus.

Recently Dr. Heiser reached out to his audience asking whether pastors who follow the podcast had tried teaching the content of his book, The Unseen Realm, to their congregations. The response was amazing, with close to 150 responses. The interest in sharing the experience of teaching the meta-narrative of Scripture to congregations stimulated the idea to have guest pastors and teachers on the podcast to tell us their stories. Join us as we listen to pastors of diverse denominations and congregations talk about the impact of teaching biblical theology in its original context to their people.

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.