Explore every episode of the podcast The Messy Truth - Conversations on Photography

In this episode, from my second salon titled, Between Two Worlds which took place in January 2026 at London’s Institute of Contemporary Arts (ICA) and supported by WePresent. The one day salon is an attempt to describe the feeling of existing in two image worlds, the one we think we know, and the new one emerging. We can sense that this new image world operates differently to the one we were socialised in—and yet it’s unclear exactly how. In this session, Gem Fletcher is joined by Rene Matić and Elle Pérez. Together they discuss, What is the work of art today? 

In an era of rising authoritarianism, the work of art is perhaps more consequential than ever.

How can we use photography to preserve history? Is it possible to create lines of undeniability in an era where collective memory is clouded by constant crisis, and erasure is weaponised? How can photography speak to the ephemeral condition of living? And what role does community play in those ideas and gestures?

Rene Matić

Rene Matić is a London-based artist and writer whose practice spans photography, film, and sculpture, converging in a meeting place they describe as "rude(ness)" - an evidencing and honouring of the in-between. Matić riffs on a documentary, diaristic style of photography, with snapshots of everyday moments and poetic juxtapositions, which are then used to create installations, grouping images to surreptitiously bring out buried tensions and paradoxes. Recent solo exhibitions include Turner Prize 2025, Cartwright Hall Art Gallery, Bradford, UK (2025); Idols Lovers Mothers Friends, Arcadia Missa, London, UK (2025); AS OPPOSED TO THE TRUTH, CCA Berlin, Berlin, DE (2024); Rene Matić/Oscar Murillo JAZZ, Kunsthalle Wien Museumsquartier, Vienna, AT (2024); a girl for the living room, Martin Parr Foundation, Bristol, UK (2023); upon this rock, Kunstverein Gartenhaus, Vienna, AT (2023), upon this rock, South London Gallery, London, UK (2022), among more.

Elle Pérez 

Elle Pérez  lives and works in New York City. Pérez primarily works in photography and moving image, depicting intimate moments, emotional exchanges, and visceral details within their portraits, landscapes, and films. Recent solo exhibitions include: “Devotions,” Baltimore Museum of Art, Maryland (2023); “Host,” Commonwealth and Council, Los Angeles (2021); “Devotions,” Carnegie Museum of Art, Pittsburgh (2021); “from sun to sun,” Public Art Fund, New York (2019) and “Diablo,” MoMA PS1, New York (2018). Their work has been included in group exhibitions at the Whitney Museum of American Art, New York (2023); the Ballroom Marfa, Marfa, Texas (2022); the Renaissance Society, Chicago (2020); Barbican Centre, London (2020); Brooklyn Museum, New York (2019) and the Whitney Museum of American Art, New York (2019); among others. They are currently an Assistant Professor of photography at Yale University. They have previously held appointments as an Assistant Professor of Art, Film, and Visual Studies at Harvard University, and Dean at the Skowhegan School of Painting and Sculpture. They participated in both the 2022 Venice Biennale and the 2022 New England Triennial. Their solo exhibition, “Intimacies,” is currently on view at MASS MoCA, North Adams, Massachusetts. They were also recently awarded the 2022-23 Rome Prize in the visual arts.

Follow Elle, Rene & Gem on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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In this episode, from my second salon titled, Between Two Worlds which took place in January 2026 at London’s Institute of Contemporary Arts (ICA) and supported by WePresent. The one day salon is an attempt to describe the feeling of existing in two image worlds, the one we think we know, and the new one emerging. We can sense that this new image world operates differently to the one we were socialised in—and yet it’s unclear exactly how. In this session, Gem Fletcher is joined by Bruno Ceschel, Brian Paul Lamotte and Lillian Wilkie. Together they discuss, What’s next for PhotoBook publishing? 

PhotoBook publishing has grown exponentially over the last decade, contributing to the evolving narrative of photography. At this moment of seeming abundance, it feels important to consider the economic, environmental, political and cultural realities moving forward for publishers and artists. What values are shaping the wider culture of PhotoBook publishing? How is the current market evolving? Is it possible to create new forms of the medium that adequately express the strange, unmapable shape of our present?

Bruno Ceschel

Bruno Ceschel is the founder and director of Self Publish, Be Happy (SPBH), an organization dedicated to visual culture, education, and community. Since 2010, SPBH has organized events at institutions such as Tate Modern, MoMA PS1, and Kunsthal Charlottenborg. Its collection of over 3,000 artists’ books is housed at the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris. As Publishing Director at SPBH Editions, Ceschel has published works by authors including Vince Aletti, Carmen Winant, Charlie Engman, and Mari Katayama. He is a visiting lecturer at École cantonale d’art de Lausanne (ECAL) and Cornell University.

Brian Paul Lamotte

Brian Paul Lamotte is an independent graphic designer and educator based between Milan and Zürich, specializing in art and photography publishing. Trained in graphic design at Central Saint Martins, his practice is grounded in close collaboration with artists, editors, and printers and is characterized by a research-driven approach to image-led solutions, minimal typography, and material sensitivity in the production of the book form. He has designed and produced books and various printed projects for select publishers and cultural institutions, including Aperture Foundation, Dashwood Books, Edition Patrick Frey, Fondation Louis Vuitton, MACK, MAST Foundation, MoMA, Rizzoli and SPBH Editions, where he is currently the art director. 

Lillian Wilkie

Lillian Wilkie is a writer, editor and publisher based in London and East Sussex. Her practice and research focus on artist publishing and its communities, photography and its contexts, and marginal fashion media. She is the Director of Chateau International, an independent imprint producing books, zines, editions and programming. Whilst prioritising female and non-binary artists and writers, Chateau International works with a range of international collaborators who share its interests in the counterculture, fashion, feminism, radical politics, community organising and practices of photography. Lillian is co-Director of Bound Art Book Fair at the Whitworth Art Gallery, Manchester, a key annual event that builds and sustains communities around print publishing practices whilst exploring the potential for expanded forms of publishing that engage or interact with performance, music, sculpture, fashion, moving image and activism. In 2024, she co-organised INVENTORY, a major publishing programme at Cromwell Place, London. 

Follow Brian, Bruno, Lillian & Gem on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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In this episode, from my second salon titled, Between Two Worlds which took place in January 2026 at London’s Institute of Contemporary Arts (ICA) and supported by WePresent. The one day salon is an attempt to describe the feeling of existing in two image worlds, the one we think we know, and the new one emerging. We can sense that this new image world operates differently to the one we were socialised in—and yet it’s unclear exactly how. In this session, On Photography And, Gem Fletcher is joined by Jack Davison, Ronan Mckenzie, and Hanna Moon, three artists who have taken risks in an attempt to create new models of publishing, exhibiting and making. 

Together they discuss the following questions: What is the state of the photography industry? And how might we retool it for the future? As artists, we have inherited this sprawling, decreasingly functional cultural apparatus known as the photo world. So, what can we do about it? How might we possibly retool or scavenge from its remains to rebuild it anew? Can we imagine new models of making and distribution that address systemic issues? Is it possible to create a more expansive practice with less compromise? And how can we cultivate new community standards that support many, rather than a few? 

British photographer Jack Davison effortlessly embraces digital, analogue, black and white and colour photography. His works depict the human figure, architecture, animals, objects, landscapes and townscapes; yet his subject is always photography itself. Davison's playful and curious approach is shaped by the equally formative space of online platforms like Flickr and Tumblr, where he first developed his craft as a young man taking pictures in the Essex countryside. Davison had his debut UK solo exhibition at Cob Gallery and a further solo exhibition at Foam Fotografiemuseum, Amsterdam. His portrait photography is included in the permanent collection of The National Portrait Gallery, London. He is the founder of the imprint Helions.

Ronan Mckenzie is a multidisciplinary artist whose practice includes photography, curation, and design. Alongside creative still and moving image works for a number of titles and brands including Vogue, Luncheon, Wall Street Journal, Clinique, Glossier and Nike, Ronan continues to work on special projects including designing a chess board for W Budapest, interviewing Carrie Mae Weems for The Barbican, creative direction for musician anaiis, writing for Apartamento and leading educational programmes for Gucci Changemakers. Curatorially, her collaborators include The V&A, The RA, Carl Freedman Gallery, London Design Festival and Somerset House. In addition to working on numerous projects for others, Ronan founded her own gallery and community space HOME (2020-2023), as well as her label SELASI (2020-present). 

Hanna Moon is an artist, photographer and creative interlocutor, born in South Korea, and based in London. Her first critically-acclaimed contribution to fashion culture was her launch of A Nice Magazine, created by Moon for her graduation from Central St Martins, London, in 2014. Intentionally working with ideas and subjects outside of the conventions of fashion photography, Moon has defined herself as an important new voice in the field.  Moon breathes new life into fashion with her personal narratives and truths, and her acute sense of how to create the visuals of our time. 

Follow Hanna, Ronan, Jack & Gem on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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In this episode, On Mystery, Gem Fletcher talks to Aspen Mays about her archival interventions and darkroom transgressions that challenges us to reflect upon the profound experience of looking - looking at us and looking at the world. Aspen’s work exists in a myriad of forms, but  what remains consistent through her work is the tension between oppositional forces like irreverence and defiances, the far and the near, construction and deconstruction, knowing and unknowing ,precision and chaos, the ordinary and the exceptional, the visible and the invisible - this is the lifeblood of her work. In short, her innovative practice is about imagining new possibilities of seeing and being.

Aspen Mays is an artist whose work investigates photography’s relationship to science, chance, and material transformation. In 2010, Mays was a Fulbright Scholar in Santiago, Chile, where she spent time with astrophysicists using the world’s most advanced telescopes to look at the sky. Her publication, Where We've Been, Where We're Going, Why?, was shortlisted for the First Photobook Award by the Aperture Foundation in 2016. She took part in the inaugural cohort (2022-2024) of Unseen California, a research initiative inviting artists to engage with the Nature Reserve System of the University of California. Mays is a 2026-2027 Guggenheim Fellow. Honors also include an American Academy of Arts and Letters Purchase Prize in 2021 and a Rauschenberg Residency in Captiva, Florida in 2025. Her work has been written about in Art Forum, Aperture, Foam, The New Yorker and the New York Times. She is represented by Higher Pictures.

Follow Aspen @aspenmays & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Naima Green about her exhibition, ‘Instead, I spin fantasies’ presented at ICP in New York in 2025/26. The show, which was curated by Elisabeth Sherman, grapples with the concept of pregnancy and parenthood through constructed self-portraits, landscapes and still-lifes—blurring the line between documentary, performance, construction and vernacular modes. Throughout the work. Green probes the conventional expectations and representational tropes of motherhood, while also creating an expanded space for considering the experience of pregnancy and parenthood in America.

Naima Green is an artist and educator who pictures individuals and communities to document their vibrant relationships to place and pleasure. She engages with various photographic forms, sound, installation, and experimental film. Throughout her collaborative practice, Green accesses and prioritises the nature of intimacy, safety, and self-recognition. Often working in lush and watery environments, she presents windows into multidimensional experiences of seawater and its pathways: beauty, buoyancy, overwhelm, and submersion. Oral and written histories are critical to her process; by synthesising archival research with outreach and conversation with current sitters, she frames picture-making as a continuum and her still images as kinetic, living histories.

Naima has had solo shows at Astor Weeks, Baxter Street CCNY, and Fotografiska, all NY, and the Institute of Contemporary Art at VCU, Richmond, VA. She has exhibited in group shows at the Getty Research Institute, University of Texas at Austin, Mass MoCA, BRIC, The Studio Museum in Harlem, Bronx Museum of the Arts, Houston Center for Photography, and Gallery Factory, Minneapolis, MN, and others. She has been an artist-in-residence at Fountainhead Arts, Baxter Street CCNY, Bronx Museum, Center for Photography at Woodstock, MASS MoCA, Penumbra Foundation, Pocoapoco, and Vermont Studio Center, amongst others. Her work is in the permanent collections of the Barnard College Library, Decker Library at MICA, Flaten Art Museum, Fleet Library at RISD, The Getty Research Institute, Hessel Museum of Art, High Museum of Art, International Center of Photography Library, Musuem of Modern Art, Museum of Modern Art Library, Hirsch Library at the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston, National Gallery of Art, Smart Museum of Art, Smith College Museum of Art, and Teachers College, Columbia University.

Follow Naima @naimagreen & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Daniel Shea about his latest book, Distribution which began with a simple question: how do you photograph a forest?  In this roving conversation they explore the genesis of Distribution while discussing everything from the personal and often painful journey of artmaking to the future of photobooks and much more in between. What is interesting about Daniel's work is his simultaneous desire for order and complexity - essentially offering more rigorous ways to think about how we move through and experience the world. 

Daniel Shea is an artist based in New York City. He has published a number of books including Distribution, Ex Nihilo and 43-35 10th Street. He has exhibited internationally including at The Pavilion of the United States during the Venice Biennale of Architecture, Foam, Amsterdam, and The Museum of Contemporary Photography, Chicago. He has been a resident artist at Light Work and His photographs have appeared in The New Yorker, Frieze and Fantastic Man

Follow Daniel @danielpshea & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Amelia Abraham about her latest book, Sex, Clubs, Dissent: Visualising Queer Nightlife, where she crafts an expansive visual exploration of queer nightlife in all its many iterations. The book is a love letter to those who went out and stayed out, felt the urge to document or reflect what was happening, or who have used their artmaking to dream new modes of being into existence. The book also asks what our decades-long quest to catalogue and understand nightlife spaces through photography and film can tell us about our various relationships with them, reflecting on the ways that photography intersects with pleasure, politics, and protest.

Amelia Abraham is a journalist and author from London. She writes for Art Review, The Guardian, The Observer, Dazed, AnOther, and other titles on arts, culture and more. Her books include Queer Intentions: A (Personal) Journey Through LGBTQ+ Culture and We Can Do Better Than This: 35 Voices on the Future of LGBTQ+ Rights. Her first edited photography book, Sex, Clubs, Dissent: Visualising Queer Nightlife, was published this year by MACK Books. 

Follow Amelia @amelia_abraham & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Ahndraya Parlato about her latest book, TIME TO KILL an interrogation of gendered aging, unpacking the ideals of beauty, caretaking, and maternal and domestic duty imposed on women over the course of their lives. In our roving conversation, we talk about selfhood, motherhood, sacrifice, visibility, censorship, the potency when you get text and image to work as you imagined and what happens to a project after its release. 

Ahndraya Parlato has a BA from Bard College and an MFA from California College of the Arts. She has published four books: TIME TO KILL [Mack Books 2026] Who Is Changed and Who Is Dead, (Mack Books, 2021), A Spectacle and Nothing Strange, (Kehrer Verlag, 2016), and East of the Sun, West of the Moon(in collaboration with Gregory Halpern), Études Books, 2014. 

She has exhibited work at: Spazio Labo, in Bologna, Italy, Silver Eye Center for Photography, Pittsburgh, PA, The Aperture Foundation, New York, NY, and The Swiss Institute, Milan, Italy. Ahndraya has been awarded residencies at Light Work and The Visual Studies Workshop, and grants from Light Work, and the New York Foundation for the Arts. She has been a nominee for the ICP Infinity Award, the Paul Huf Award from the FOAM Museum in Amsterdam, and the SECCA Award from the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art and is a 2024 Guggenheim Foundation Fellow. She has taught in the Bard College and Cornell Image Text MFA programs and is currently an Assistant Professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology.

Follow Ahndraya @Ahndraya_Parlato  & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Chieska Fortune Smith about her journey through photography and the role of collective learning in her practice. She came to photography through Flickr, the social media platform which earnestly engaged so many of us in the medium. It was a place to upload and share your pictures, while getting feedback from other enthusiasts. Chi’s trajectory pivoted when met Brett Walker on the platform, a photographer in his own right, who mentored a group of budding photographers in London. This model of collective learning was formative for Chi and her peers and gave her the foundations of which she continues to build upon today. In our conversation we talk about the different strands of life, culture and influence which inform her work, what keeps her going and how she moves through the photo industry. 

Chieska Fortune Smith is born of an African-American soul singer and a Japanese classical dancer. Her work is rooted in classical timelessness and stories with twists of obscurity and illusion. She is heavily influenced by street photography and vintage found imagery from the early 20th century. She has featured in prominent magazines and books including Sixteen Journal, Vanity Fair, and designer Simone Rocha’s debut monograph, and is currently working on a personal project that delves into her Japanese and black American roots. She is based in London.

Follow Chi @chieskafortunesmith & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Welcome back. To celebrate reaching the 100th episode of the podcast, I collaborated with the team at the International Centre of Photography in New York City, to host a one day salon. My motivation was to gather the community together in person and start talking about where we stand in photography. Titled, Between Two Worlds, the salon was an attempt to describe the feeling of existing in two image worlds, the one we think we know, and the new one emerging. We can sense that this new image world operates differently to the one we were socialised in—and yet it’s unclear exactly how.

Before you dive in, I wanted to share what I told the audience at the salon - there are no tidy or easy answers here. In fact my expectation is that these conversations will involve a lot of complexity and contradiction, but holding space for, and embracing this chaos, is in my opinion, the urgent work that needs to be done. 

In this episode I discuss the future of storytelling with Kathy Ryan

For three decades, Kathy Ryan, the longtime director of photography at The New York Times Magazine, pioneered her own vision for visual storytelling. Her signature approach to masterful commissioning was rooted in unexpected cross-assignment, blurring boundaries between genres and creating space for photography to be interpretive and elaborate - a powerful voice unto itself. Kathy is an icon. She has truly had more impact than any other magazine director of photography in our time. Within photography circles, she is a genuine legend.

Now, as she enters a new era of her career as an artist, curator and educator, I wanted to talk to Kathy about her new chapter and what it means to shift from the role of directing images to making them herself. I also wanted to speak to her, now she is untethered from an insitution, about her take on the future of storytelling and the role of the photographer in preserving history, challenging misinformation, and safeguarding the integrity of our shared narratives.

Follow Kathy & Gem on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

Thank you to the whole team at ICP for collaborating on this project.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. To celebrate reaching the 100th episode of the podcast, I collaborated with the team at the International Centre of Photography in New York City, to host a one day salon. My motivation was to gather the community together in person and start talking about where we stand in photography. Titled, Between Two Worlds, the salon was an attempt to describe the feeling of existing in two image worlds, the one we think we know, and the new one emerging. We can sense that this new image world operates differently to the one we were socialised in—and yet it’s unclear exactly how.

Before you dive in, I wanted to share what I told the audience at the salon - there are no tidy or easy answers here. In fact my expectation is that these conversations will involve a lot of complexity and contradiction, but holding space for, and embracing this chaos, is in my opinion, the urgent work that needs to be done. 

In this session On Documentary, I was joined by Stacy Kranitz, Abdul Kircher, and Sinna Nasseri.

Amongst the doom and upheaval that defines life in the 2020s, from political extremism and war, the dizzying technological domination and the profound shifts in perception and attention, the role of documentary photography has never felt so consequential. Amongst this chaos, the protocols of the genre are shifting and new questions are emerging: What happens to documentary photography if we no longer trust in images? How is the changing media landscape impacting how images function? And can new forms of the medium emerge that adequately express the strange, unmapable shape of our present?

Projects mentioned:

Stacy Kranitz - The year after a denied Abortion and the conversation about the project

Abdul Kircher - Rotting From Within

Sinna Nasseri - LA Fires 

Follow Stacy, Abdul, Sinna & Gem on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

Thank you to the whole team at ICP for collaborating on this project.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. To celebrate reaching the 100th episode of the podcast, I collaborated with the team at the International Centre of Photography in New York City, to host a one day salon. My motivation was to gather the community together in person and start talking about where we stand in photography. Titled, Between Two Worlds, the salon was an attempt to describe the feeling of existing in two image worlds, the one we think we know, and the new one emerging. We can sense that this new image world operates differently to the one we were socialised in—and yet it’s unclear exactly how.

Before you dive in, I wanted to share what I told the audience at the salon - there are no tidy or easy answers here. In fact my expectation is that these conversations will involve a lot of complexity and contradiction, but holding space for, and embracing this chaos, is in my opinion, the urgent work that needs to be done. 

In this session on contemporary art. I’m joined today by three brilliant artists, thinkers and writers - Farah Al Qasimi, Charlie Engman and Gideon Jacobs.

What we understand an image to be is becoming completely reimagined. As photography slowly loses its utility value as a communication tool, does it have the opportunity to be a slippery, strange and miraculous medium of possibilities? From where we stand today, what is the work of art? And what role does photography play in those ideas and gestures?

Projects mentioned:

Charlie Engman - Cursed 

Farah Al Qasimi - Toy World

Gideon Jacobs - On Images

Follow Farah, Charlie, Gideon & Gem on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

Thank you to the whole team at ICP for collaborating on this project.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. To celebrate reaching the 100th episode of the podcast, I collaborated with the team at the International Centre of Photography in New York City, to host a one day salon. My motivation was to gather the community together in person and start talking about where we stand in photography. Titled, Between Two Worlds, the salon was an attempt to describe the feeling of existing in two image worlds, the one we think we know, and the new one emerging. We can sense that this new image world operates differently to the one we were socialised in—and yet it’s unclear exactly how.

Before you dive in, I wanted to share what I told the audience at the salon - there are no tidy or easy answers here. In fact my expectation is that these conversations will involve a lot of complexity and contradiction, but holding space for, and embracing this chaos, is in my opinion, the urgent work that needs to be done. 

In this session On Portraiture, I was joined by Avion Pearce, Caroline Tompkins and Alexander Coggin. Three fascinating photographers, each with their own distinct approach to imaging people, and yet their strategies overlap and intersect in different ways. 

Throughout history, Portraiture has played a critical role in how we understand people and ourselves, revealing a myriad of ideas about the maker and the sitter. In an era where identities and communities are yet again being erased or reduced, Portraiture feels particularly pertinent to me right now. 

Projects mentioned:

Caroline Tompkins - Bedfellow

Avion Pearce - In The Hours Before Dawn

Alexander Coggin - Micheal

Follow Caroline, Avion, Alexander & Gem on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

Thank you to the whole team at ICP for collaborating on this project.

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to writer and artist Gideon Jacobs. For the last few years, Gideon has been grappling with our relationship to images and technology, posing theories about its potential futures. Despite his beat not being politics, many of his most potent essays, in particular those for the LA Review of Books, use the root of politics to untangle the changing state of images and the ways in which reality is being reimagined through image production and strategy in dark and surreal ways. In this episode, we cover a lot of ground, trying to unravel how the value of images is shifting and what the potential outcome or implications of this could be, to which there are several possibilities, but for Gideon, our relationship to technology comes front and centre. 

Gideon Jacobs is a New York based writer contributing fiction and nonfiction to The New Yorker, The New York Times, Artforum, BOMB Magazine, The Drift, Heavy Traffic, aMONG others. Alongside his writing, he is currently performing a one man show called Images: A Show, a performance as a Second Commandment fundamentalist preacher, directed by Ruby McCollister. He has lectured at a number of institutions including the Museum of Contemporary Art of Rome and the New School, NYC. Gideon is currently working on a novel about images.

Articles mentioned:

Trump l’Oeil (LA Review of Books)

Player One and Main Character (LA Review of Books)

AI is the Future of Photography… (New York Times)

Follow Gideon @gideon___jacobs & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Donna Ferrato, a fearless photojournalist who has redefined how the world sees domestic violence through her groundbreaking work. Her seminal book Living With the Enemy [published by Aperture] sparked a global reckoning, exposing the hidden realities of abuse and igniting conversations that continue to drive change. In this conversation, Donna shares her radical approach to image making, what she went through to get her work seen, and her lifelong mission of wielding the camera as a tool for justice.  

In 2021, Donna received a grant from the Mayor’s Office to End Gender-Based Violence to build and install a public art installation on a human scale in the form of a prison cell sculpture of mirrored steel which symbolized a portal into the lives of criminalized survivors of domestic violence.  Donna's work has been recognized with numerous prestigious honors, including the W. Eugene Smith Grant in Humanistic Photography, the Robert F. Kennedy Award for Outstanding Coverage of the Plight of the Disadvantaged, the IWMF Courage in Journalism Award, the Missouri Medal of Honor for Distinguished Service in Journalism, Artist of the Year at the Tribeca Film Festival, and the Look3 Insightful Artist of the Year. In 2008, New York City declared October 30th “Donna Ferrato Appreciation Day,” and in 2009, she was honored by the judges of the New York State Supreme Court for her tireless advocacy for gender equality. In 2025, she was awarded an honorary doctorate from John Jay College of Criminal Justice for her lifelong commitment to justice, truth, and the transformative power of photography.  

Donna's photographs are held in major institutional collections including the Museum of Fine Arts Boston, the Cleveland Museum of Art, the Library of Congress, and the International Center of Photography in New York City, as well as in private collections such as those of Celso Gonzalez-Falla, the Marrus Family Fund, Keri Jackson and Adrian Kunzel, Ann and Alex Russ Family Fund. She is represented by the Daniel Cooney Gallery in Santa Fe, New Mexico.  

Follow Donna @donnaferrato & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this conversation Lisa Barnard talks to Gem Fletcher about her new exhibition, You Only Look Once,  at c/o Berlin which considers perception in relation to both human and machine experience. She addresses the complexity of technological progress and the ecological resources on which its promises depend. Her research focuses on California, unfolding a multilayered, fragmented and nonlinear story that encompasses photographs, an immersive video installation, archival interventions, alternative printing strategies and AI-generated image analyses that weave together in the creation of a dense visual entanglement.

Lisa Barnard is a British artist and lecturer whose photography focuses on real events. In her projects, she combines classical documentary methods such as photography, audio, video, and text with contemporary visual strategies and digital technologies. She brings together her interest in aesthetics and current debates on the materiality of photography with political questions surrounding new ecological efforts, technological developments, science, and the industrial military complex. Barnard is an associate professor and head of the online masters in documentary photography at University of South Wales. She regularly exhibits her work and has published three monographs: Chateau Despair (2012, GOST, supported by Arts Council England), Hyenas of the Battlefield: Machines in the Garden (2014, GOST, supported by Albert Renger-Patzsch prize), and The Canary and the Hammer (2019, MACK, supported by Getty Images Prestige Grant). 

Follow Lisa @lisacbarnard & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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I Will Keep You in Good Company, the latest book by Liz Johnson Artur brings together pages and fragments from over twenty years of her personal workbooks she has kept since the early 1990s. These books are a kind of private, experimental playground where she shaped her photographic language through layering, cutting, annotating, and assembling: a space for processing not only images, but life itself. Each page is a tactile surface, combining photographic prints on canvas, tracing paper, faxes, and photo stock with screen-prints, handwriting, and clipped texts. The result is a sensorial, intimate archive of moments lived and witnessed – of friends, family, strangers, lovers – held with care and attention. 

In this conversation, Gem and Liz talk about the workbooks and Liz’s journey making them throughout her career. They also talk about the power of stubbornness, finding your tools, overcoming shyness, how she has integrated her work into her life and the importance of being yourself within the institution. 

Follow Liz @lizjohnsonartur & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode Gem talks to writer and curator Vince Aletti about his most recent book Physique—which showcases rare photographic prints from the underground gay magazine of the same name—collated from his own private collection. Spanning the 1930s to the early 1960s, these photographs chronicle a hidden, coded world of homoerotic imagery. Physique reveals a forgotten chapter of American gay culture in which photographic prints served as a lifeline, connecting a community of men under threat while also providing solace, pleasure, and empowerment amid oppression. In their roving conversation, they talk about obsessions, Queer culture, FOMO, writing, the importance of incongruous connections, Bad Bunny and the evolving codes of masculinity.

Vince Aletti is a writer, critic, curator and book maker. He is a regular contributor to the New Yorker and has also written for Aperture, Artforum, Document, amongst other titles. Vince was the art editor of the Village Voice from 1994 to 2005 and the paper’s photo critic for twenty years. In 2005, he won the International Center of Photography’s Infinity Award for writing. He has made many books, most recently, The Drawer and Physique made in collaboration with Self Publish Be Happy and Mack. Vince lives and works in Manhatten

Follow Vince @vincealetti & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, please rate and review. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Charlotte Jansen, writer and Photo London curator. They discuss mechanics behind photography fairs, how she approaches the curatorial process and how this aspect of the industry can support the work of emerging artists. 

Charlotte Jansen is a British Sri Lankan author, journalist and critic based in London. She is the curator of Discovery at Photo London and writes on contemporary art and photography for The Guardian, The Financial Times, The New York Times, British Vogue and ELLE, among others. She is the author of Girl on Girl: Art and Photography in the Age of the Female Gaze, and Photography Now.

Follow Charlotte @omfgnoway & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to photographers and longtime partners Carolyn Drake and Andres Gonzalez about their collaborative project and book, “I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours,” published by Mack. For the last five years, the two artists have traversed the border between Mexico and the United States, working together for the first time and ruminating on ideas about human connection, migration and the mechanics of photography itself. In this conversation they talk about the reality of collaboration, and how as they studied the borderlands they were faced with an unavoidable reckoning that, over time, offered them a deeper understanding of each other and their work.

Carolyn Drake works on long term photo-based projects seeking to interrogate dominant historical narratives and creatively reimagine them.  Her practice embraces collaboration and has in recent years melded photography with sewing, collage, and sculpture. She is interested in collapsing the traditional divide between author and subject, the real and the imaginary, challenging entrenched binaries.

Andres Gonzalez is a visual artist based in Vallejo, California. His book “American Origami” (2019) won the Light Work Photo Book Award, and was shortlisted for the Paris Photo–Aperture Book Awards. We featured “I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours,” his first collaborative project with fellow photographer, and life partner, Carolyn Drake, which saw them spend five years traversing the border between Mexico and the United States, capturing moments and characters from their individual perspectives.

Follow Carolyn @drakeycake & Andres @andresvgonzalez & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher speaks to Amak Mahmoodian about her latest body of work, ‘One Hundred and Twenty Minutes’, in which she examines dreaming for individuals living in exile. Working with 16 collaborators, Amak uses photography, poetry, drawing and video to explore the new lives created through dreams, as well as the ways in which dreaming enables individuals to return to a past that cannot be reached while awake. 

Amak Mahmoodian is a multidisciplinary artist and educator. She began her career as a research-based photographer in Iran in 2003 at the Art University of Tehran. Since 2010, she has been living in the UK, unable to return to Iran. She practices as a visual artist at the intersection of conceptual image-making and documentary photography, working with photographs, text, video, drawing, archives and sound.Her practice explores the presentation of gender, identity and displacement, bridging a space between personal and political across platforms and formats including installation, books and films.

Her works are held in collections such as the Tate, and the British Library in London. She has published two books, Shenasnameh (RRB- ICV Lab, 2016), and Zanjir (RRB, 2019) which was the winner of The Best Photo Text Book award at Rencontres Arles, 2020.

Follow Amak @amak_mahmoodian & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to artist Paul Kooiker. They discuss his process, unique way of seeing, his relationship to equipment, the archive, book making and sepia and how he thinks about the ecosystem around his practice. 

Paul Kooiker is an award winning artist based in Amsterdam. Disconnected from time and place, and transcending classic gender roles, his surreal images feel like film stills of stories we can only imagine. Paul’s practice is characterised by a conceptual and experimental approach to photography and for the past five years he created works that flirt with the boundary between commerce and art. As a result, he has become a much sought-after creator of iconic images and collaborated with Vogue Italia, Luncheon and AnOther, Givenchy, Valentino and Rick Owens. Paul has published thirteen books and had his work displayed in countless solo and group exhibitions in the Netherlands and abroad. His works can be found in a great many international collections, both public and private. 

Follow Paul @paulkooiker & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Alessia Glaviano, the Head of Global PhotoVogue and Director of the PhotoVogue Festival. They discuss relevance, why Alessia hates nostalgia, the importance of obsession and why artists need the freedom to be controversial. 

Since joining Vogue Italia in 2001, Glaviano rapidly ascended from Photo Editor to Visual Director, where she played a crucial role in shaping the visual identity of the publication. In early 2022, with the relaunch of PhotoVogue on a global scale, Glaviano’s role shifted to focus on leading PhotoVogue, collaborating with all editions of Vogue worldwide. Under Glaviano’s leadership, PhotoVogue has become an industry-leading platform, curating a diverse pool of image-makers and exemplifying diversity behind the camera through a multitude of perspectives. In her expanded role, she continues to steer the platform into its future while overseeing its creative direction and driving key special projects.

In addition to her editorial work, Alessia regularly lectures at esteemed institutions, including the United Nations, the University of Brighton, Central Saint Martins, IED, Bocconi University, and the Milan Polytechnic. She has also served on the juries of internationally acclaimed photography contests, including the World Press Photo, the Festival International de Mode et de Photographie à Hyères, and the Leica Oskar Barnack Award, and has participated in several prestigious portfolio review sessions, such as the New York Times

Portfolio Reviews.

Follow Alessia @alessiaglaviano & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Jack Davison about craft, creative development and the importance of taking risks, all through the lens of his new project A is for Ant, a multifaceted experience which includes his debut short film, two photo books, a live touring performance, and workshops.  Made in collaboration with Shona Heath and Matt Willey  where each letter of the alphabet is represented by an animal - playfully characterised by both actors and live creatures and created in the inventive spirit of the Early modern avant-garde.

British photographer Jack Davison's oeuvre effortlessly embraces digital, analogue, black and white and colour photography. His works depict the human figure, architecture, animals, objects, landscapes and townscapes; yet his subject is always photography itself. Jack's playful and curious approach is shaped by the equally formative space of online platforms like Flickr and Tumblr, where he first developed his craft as a young man taking pictures in the Essex countryside.

Jack received his first major commission from Kathy Ryan, photography editor of the New York Times, in 2016. His editorial work has since been featured in publications including the New York Times, Le Monde, Vogue Italia, British Vogue and i-D, and he has worked with fashion labels including Alexander McQueen, Hermès, Burberry, Craig Green and Moncler. His 2019 book Photographs, published by Loose Joints, is now in its third reissue. Song Flowers, a collaboration with the fashion label Marni, was published in 2020. Ol Pejeta, whose subject is the world’s last two living white rhinos in the Kenyan wildlife conservancy of the same name, followed in 2021. A limited-edition annotated artists edition of Photographs was published in 2021. Jack's works are included in the permanent collection of The National Portrait Gallery, London.

Follow Jack @jackdavisonphoto & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Cait Opperman about her creative journey and her new full service production company Flowers. Born from her desire for greater autonomy and more direct and meaningful collaboration with her clients, Cait is creating a new model beyond the  traditional photographer and agent dynamic. While she had a hunch that building Flowers would offer a more expansive way of working with less compromise, Cait also found it rekindled her personal connection to creativity in dynamic and unexpected ways. 

Cait Oppermann is a New York-based photographer, director and entrepreneur working in the fine art, commercial and editorial sectors and beyond. After receiving her BFA in Photography from Pratt Institute, Cait has built a successful career working with clients including Nike, Meta, Rapha, The New York Times, The New Yorker, Time, Volvo and On Running. In 2023, Cait launched FLOWERS, a cross-disciplinary creative studio and full-service production company based in New York, working across the globe.

Follow Cait @caitoppermann & @flowersfullservice & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Sophie Hackett, the photography curator at the Art Gallery of Ontario in Toronto about the power of vernacular photography. We discuss her recent book and exhibition on Casa Susana - The Story of the First Trans Network in the United States 1959-1968. These incredibly inspiring photographs trace an underground network of transgender women and cross-dressing men who found refuge in a house in the Catskills region of New York. The house, known as Casa Susanna, provided a safe place to express their true selves and live for a few days as they had always dreamed - dressed as and living as women without fear of being incarcerated or institutionalised for their self-expression. This book opens up that now-lost world with a multifaceted collection of vernacular photographs - mostly discovered by chance in a New York flea market in 2004. 

During Sophie Hackett’s tenure at the Art Gallery of Ontario she has curated numerous exhibitions and collection reinstallation's, written and contributed to countless publications, participated on international juries and maintained an active academic profile. She is currently a faculty member in Toronto Metropolitan University’s Master’s degree program in Film + Photography, and was a 2017 Fellow with the Center for Curatorial Leadership. Hackett’s area of specialty is 19th and 20th century vernacular photography.

Follow Sophie @hackettse & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Photographer Jesse Glazzard renowned for making striking and intimate portraits anchored in his everyday life and wider community. Alongside his commercial and editorial work, Jesse’s passion projects immerse us in marginal, lesser-known worlds, such as a Trans boxing gyms, Queer camping and underground club nights. His photographs are informed by care and compassion and the impetus of his practice is on the importance of documentation, without necessarily showing the work right away. There is a sense of preserving his community, in a particular moment of history. 

Jesse Glazzard Is a Photographer from West Yorkshire, based in London. He has worked with clients including YSL, SSENSE, Calvin Klien, Adidas, Coach, Facebook, Death Jam, Sony Music as well publications including British Vogue, Interview magazine, GQ, Altered States, Perfect Magazine, Cultured Mag and The Face.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Diamond Coating on a Blade - Jesse Glazzard for The Face
• Winter on Fire documentary

Follow Jesse @jesse_glazzard & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher chats to designer and educator Brian Paul Lamotte about  reimagining the possibilities of form, production and distribution in art and photobooks. In a deep dive into the book making process we open up a conversation about the changing scope of publishing, the transformative experience of being entangled with an artist and their intentions and ultimately design as a form of collaboration. 

Brian Paul Lamotte (b. 1984, San Francisco, USA) is an independent graphic designer & publisher specializing in art and photography books. Educated in graphic design at London’s Central St. Martins, he established his creative practice in New York and is currently based between Milano and Zürich. His design approach utilizes extensive visual and production research paired with image-led solutions and minimal typography. His publishing practice is driven by exploration and experimentation with the book form, production methods and models of distribution. He has designed and produced various books and projects for select publishers and clients including Aperture Foundation, Dashwood Books, Edition Patrick Frey, Fondation Louis Vuitton, GOST Books, Hauser & Wirth Publishers, Images Vevey, Ithaca Image Text Press, Jiazazhi, MAST Foundation, Meta/Books, MoMA, Pro Helvetia, Rizzoli,SPBH Editions and Twin Palms Publishers.

Follow Brian on Instagram @brianpaullamotte Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback and maybe five stars if we're worthy in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Nathaniel Tonelli, known by their monika Female Pentimento, has cultivated a vast audience on social media in awe of their celestial images which both advocate for climate awareness while traversing the space between heaven and earth, life and death, spirituality and science fiction. While Nathaniel’s work feels provocative and exciting, it’s their approach to designing a practice that prioritizes care, independence and anonymity that I wanted to dig into with them during this episode. Together we talk about crafting a creative practice, affirmations, independence and the importance of finding a methodology that works for the individual. 

You can order Nathaniel’s photobook Inner Nature here published by Broccoli Press.

Nathaniel Tonelli is an artist and art director whose work bridges photography with speculative storytelling, exploring themes of mysticism, deep ecology, and humanity’s imprint on nature. Through these lenses, Nathaniel considers the interwoven futures of our ecosystems and spiritual lives. Rooted in vibrant experimentation, their work is guided by gratitude, reverence, and mindfulness.

Follow Nathaniel on Instagram @Female Pentimento Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE rate and review on Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher welcomes back Charlie Engman to talk about Cursed, his new book of AI Images. Cursed stands as a testament to Charlie’s visionary role in the rapidly evolving and highly contentious field of AI, offering an immersive exploration of uncharted artistic territories and proposing a new paradigm for the future and possibilities of photography. During their roving conversation, AI Images act as a way to not just reflect upon Charlie’s work but also to interrogate the discourse around value, provenance, creativity and economics as well as other pressing issues which get very little attention. 

Charlie Engman is a Brooklyn-based photographer, director, and art director whose work pushes the limits of traditional image making, simultaneously principled and irreverent — imbued with both the weird and wonderful. He has exhibited work globally and made four books. His work has been featured across AnOther Magazine, Dazed, Garage, POP, and T: The New York Times Style Magazine, among other publications. His commercial clients include Prada, Marni, Adidas, Hermès, Kenzo, Nike, Vivienne Westwood, and Stella McCartney. Charlie has also worked as Art Director at Collina Strada since 2019 — continuously pushing the creative & conceptual boundaries of the contemporary, sustainable brand.

You can order Cursed  and Hello Chaos, a love story over at Mack. 

Follow Charlie on Instagram @charlieengman Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE rate and review on Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to curator Alona Pardo about her rich practice rooted in multiplicity. Alona is one of those curators who knows how to truly capture the imagination of the audience, planting ideas in our minds that reverberate long after we have left her exhibitions. During the conversation, Alona talks about her process, interests and how her curatorial practice has evolved over time. 

Alona Pardo is Head of Programmes at the Arts Council Collection, UK, and was until recently a curator at Barbican Art Gallery in London for 15 years. With a focus on photography and film, she has curated numerous exhibitions including most recently RE/SISTERS: A Lens on Gender and Ecology (2023); Noemie Goudal: Phoenix (2022) as part of Les Rencontres de la Photographie, Arles; Masculinities: Liberation through Photography (2020); Trevor Paglen: From Apple to Anomaly (2019); Dorothea Lange: Politics of Seeing (2018); Vanessa Winship: And Time Folds (2018); Another Kind of Life: Photography on the Margins (2018); Richard Mosse: Incoming (2017) and Strange and Familiar: Britain as seen by International Photographers (with Martin Parr; 2016). She has a particular interest in work that operates at the intersection of gender, social and environmental justice.

Follow Alona on Instagram @alona_pardo Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE rate and review on Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher delves into the unique approach of London-based photographic artist, Laura Pannack. Her practice, which is a blend of experimentation and research, is a deep exploration of the intricate relationship between subject and photographer. The work is rooted in intimate collaborations with individuals and communities, and it constantly pushes the boundaries of what photography can be.

Laura Pannack, a London-based photographic artist, has made a significant impact in the field of portraiture and social documentary. Her work has been widely exhibited in prestigious institutions, including The National Portrait Gallery, Somerset House, The Houses of Parliament and the Royal Festival Hall. Her numerous awards, including the World Press Photo Award and the Julia Cameron Award, are a testament to the profound influence of her work. Last year, she published 'Youth Without Age and Life Without Death, with Guest Editions, a response to her need to escape and find adventure in the face of the relentless passage of time.

Her artwork has received much acclaim and won numerous awards, including the John Kobal Award, Vic Odden Prize, World Photo Press Awards, Juliet Margaret Cameron Award, and the HSBC Prix de la Photographie prize.

Follow Laura on Instagram @laurapannack. Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE rate and review it on the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Jermaine Francis about his multifaceted practice. Jermaine’s work is both deeply personal while also speaking to the intersection of politics and culture in the UK, inviting us to explore the physical and psychological aspects of our space, unpacking themes of history, power, class and race in photography. 

Jermaine Francis is a London lens Based Artist, his practice works within, Documentary & Portraiture, archive in the format of personal driven Photo projects & Editorials, exploring the issues that arise from our interaction in the everyday environment. He has published two books, Something that seems so Familiar in 2020 & 2021 Rhythms from the Metroplex, & is currently working on a new book with publishers Here Press. The International Centre of Photography NYC, The National Portrait Gallery, Galeriepcp Paris, Hetton Lawn Haus Wien, Vienna Austria 2021,Pembroke JCR galley Oxford, Saatchi Gallery, Centre of British Photography, a nominee for the 2024 Paul Huf foam Award, Awarded the Lightworks /Autograph 2024 Residency, and Cora Oxford Brookes 2024 Residency.

Follow Jermaine on Instagram @jermainefrancisstudio Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE rate and review on Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Welcome to one of five special episodes recorded live at Peckham 24. In this episode, I speak to Eleonora Agostini about her series, A Study On Waitressing, in which she assembles and re-presents photographs, archival imagery and footage, collage and text as a research method to analyse the theatricality of the everyday and the function of the body as a conduit between observer and observed. 

Peckham 24 exists to support the photographic community by providing artists with opportunities to exhibit, share and discuss new work - shining a spotlight on cutting-edge contemporary photography.

The theme for the 8th edition of the festival was Back to the future, bringing together artists who take moments from the past as inspiration to re-stage, re-imagine or re-think existing narratives. 

Eleonora is an Italian artist based in London. Her practice shifts between photography, moving image, performance and sculpture, exploring and analysing the difficulties of how human experience is constructed.Her research is strongly connected with the experience of our surroundings and she is interested in finding a possible fracture within our socially constructed rules and the spaces we inhabit. Eleonora refers to the every-day as a space full of potential and possibilities for quests, incorporating ordinary objects and activities within her images to express and navigate its different layers and meanings.

Follow Eleonora @eleonoraagostini and  Peckham 24 @peckham24photo and Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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Welcome to one of five special episodes recorded live at Peckham 24. In this episode, I talk to Bindi Vora about the two projects she presented at Peckham 24, Mountain of Salt and Unravelling which both employ the use of found or archival images. During our conversation we talk about how the absence of images shapes our lives, what it means to work with archival material, the artist as detective, deciphering traces and threads and connecting stories together. How collage can offer something important that language can't reach and the importance of imagining new language to talk about art making. 

Peckham 24 exists to support the photographic community by providing artists with opportunities to exhibit, share and discuss new work - shining a spotlight on cutting-edge contemporary photography.

The theme for the 8th edition of the festival was Back to the future, bringing together artists who take moments from the past as inspiration to re-stage, re-imagine or re-think existing narratives. 

Bindi Vora is an interdisciplinary artist of Kenyan-Indian heritage, associate lecturer at LCC and senior curator at Autograph, London. She is interested in how ideas of resistance and resilience are shaped by our surroundings, histories and lived experiences. Her practice often combines linguistics and an archive of personal and found photographs procured over the last decade to draw on the intersections between language, culture and their inherent power dynamics.

Follow Bindi @bindi_vora & Peckham 24 @peckham24photo & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Welcome to one of five special episodes recorded live at Peckham 24. In this episode, I talk to Lina Geoushy about her work Trailblazers, an inquiry into Egypt’s feminist history using self-portraiture, performance, and archival artifacts to reclaim and inscribe a counter-history. Responding to this dissonance in Egypts past and present, Lina has built an archive informed by a feminist impulse, amassing material from popular cultural material and combining that with performative self-portraiture that depicts trailblazing Egyptian feminists in the fields like art, science, law, activism and the military. 

Peckham 24 exists to support the photographic community by providing artists with opportunities to exhibit, share and discuss new work - shining a spotlight on cutting-edge contemporary photography.

The theme for the 8th edition of the festival was Back to the future, bringing together artists who take moments from the past as inspiration to re-stage, re-imagine or re-think existing narratives. 

Lina Geoushy is a photographer and visual artist working across the spectrum of social documentary and portrait photography. She aims to tell stories that deconstruct and question the public's perception of the prevailing power of patriarchy. Her practice is research-led and her projects are both commissioned and self initiated. Her work largely explores gender politics and women empowerment issues. 

Follow Lina @linageoushy & Peckham 24 @peckham24photo & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com 

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Welcome to one of five special episodes recorded live at Peckham 24. In this episode, we celebrate and unpack Åsa Johannesson book Queer Methodology for Photography, diving into her research into new approaches for making, thinking about writing about Queer photography. Through the book, Åsa proposes a new concept of the photographic image that focuses on materiality, voicing concerns beyond representation. 

Peckham 24 exists to support the photographic community by providing artists with opportunities to exhibit, share and discuss new work - shining a spotlight on cutting-edge contemporary photography.

The theme for the 8th edition of the festival was Back to the future, bringing together artists who take moments from the past as inspiration to re-stage, re-imagine or re-think existing narratives. 

Åsa Johannesson is an artist working across photography, installation, and writing. Her practice concerns the relationship between queerness, representation, and material knowledge production. She has exhibited her work internationally, including at Centrum för fotografi (Stockholm), Queer Britain (London), Landskrona Foto (Landskrona), Dyson Gallery (London) and FutureLab (Shanghai). Åsa’s work has been written about in the books Photography: A Queer History and Museums, Sexuality, and Gender Activism, and the journals Philosophy of Photography, British Journal of Photography, Yes & No, and Zine. She is based in London, UK and her hometown Växjö, Sweden. 

Follow Asa @asajohannes Peckham 24 @peckham24photo & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Welcome to one of five special episodes recorded live at Peckham 24. In this episode, I talk to Alexander Coggin about ‘Mike,’ a fifteen year photographic archive he made about his spouse Micheal. United by a spontaneity and informed by their background in theatre, Mike is a deeply intimate, yet playful exploration of Queer love told through over 300 photographs. Through ‘Mike,’ Alex offers a cross section of a lived history that encompasses the theatricality of the everyday to life's most vulnerable moments.

Peckham 24 exists to support the photographic community by providing artists with opportunities to exhibit, share and discuss new work - shining a spotlight on cutting-edge contemporary photography.

The theme for the 8th edition of the festival was Back to the future, bringing together artists who take moments from the past as inspiration to re-stage, re-imagine or re-think existing narratives. 

Alexander Coggin is an American queer photographer and filmmaker living in London who penetrates trends of visual homogeneity with idiosyncratic and uncanny imagery. Raised in the theatre, he is dedicated to bringing the same theatrical and artificial frameworks learned on the stage to the visible everyday. 

Follow Alexander @alexandercoggin & Peckham 24 @peckham24photo & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Ashleigh Kane taking a peek behind the curtain into the life of an editor and writer. Together we talk about the role of writers within the creative ecosystem, how our relationships with artists start and develop over time, and what it takes to sustain a career in writing. 

Ashleigh Kane is a writer, editor, creative consultant, art buyer, host, and curator based in London, UK.She is the Arts & Photography Editor-at-Large at Dazed & Confused and previously held the title of Arts & Culture editor from 2014-2020. Ashleigh is also an art buyer and curator for Thursday’s Child and she hosts Art After Hours in collaboration with the EDITION London, a series of monthly art tours that she curates and leads. She’s written for Dazed, i-D, AnOther, The Face, ELEPHANT, HighSnobiety, Crack, Brick, Riposte, foam, Glorious sport, Truth, and AMBUSH universe.

Follow Ashleigh on Instagram @ashleighkane  Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback and maybe five stars if we're worthy in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher is in conversation with Photo Editor Emily Keegin about New Rules, a special collaboration with WePresent, the arts platform from WeTransfer. If you're not aware of them, WePresent is a platform that spotlights creatives from around the world and collaborates with artists on one-off special projects. Gem was invited by WePresent to edit New Rules, a guide about photography that speaks to our current moment, and through candid conversations, attempts to explore photography’s unfixed future.

New Rules is a group portrait by photographers, curators and editors, many of whom stepped away from the traditional trajectory to embrace an alternative path. They have crafted new strategies, held space for marginalised voices and built new infrastructure, modes of making and blueprints for communing. None of this was easy, but for many of these artists, it was riskier to stay still than not make a change. New Rules includes insights from Charlie Engman, Antwaun Sargent, Sheida Solemani, Quil Lemons, Myriam Boulos, Rhiannon Adam, Elisa Medde and Eve Lyons to name just a few.  It also features Fuck, Marry, Kill Photography, an essay by Emily Keegin about what it means to have a career in photography.

Download New Rules here.

Follow Emily Keegin @emily_elsie WePresent @wepresent and Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback and maybe five stars if we're worthy in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher talks to Carmen Winant about her latest book The Last Safe Abortion. Focusing on the near-fifty-year period in which abortion was legal in the United States (1973–2022), the project  recognises the care, advocacy, and community-building of abortion workers. The photographs themselves are surprisingly regular: women answer the phone, sterilize medical equipment, throw staff birthday parties, offer workshops and schedule appointments. In centering the tender, quotidian, and routine acts that inform this healthcare work, Carmen works to counter the ways anti-choice activists have weaponised photography by proposing a visuality that attends to abortion care. We unpack the evolution of the project and everything it entailed.

Carmen Winant is an artist and the Roy Lichtenstein Chair of Studio Art at the Ohio State University. Her work utilizes archival and authored photographs to examine feminist care networks, with particular emphasis on intergenerational, multiracial, and sometimes transnational coalition building. Winant's recent projects have been shown at the Museum of Modern Art, the Whitney Museum of American Art, the Minneapolis Institute of Art, Sculpture Center, Wexner Center of the Arts, ICA Boston, the Cleveland Museum of Art, and el Museo Universitario Arte Contemporáneo. Winant's artist’s books include My Birth (2018), Notes on Fundamental Joy (2019), and Instructional Photography: Learning How To Live Now (2021); Arrangements, A Brand New End: Survival and Its Pictures (both 2022), and The last safe abortion (2024). Winant is a 2019 Guggenheim Fellow in photography, a 2020 FCA Artist Honoree and a 2021 American Academy of Arts and Letters award recipient. She is also a community organizer, prison educator, and mother to her two children, Carlo and Rafa, shared with her partner, Luke Stettner.

If you can, you can support the following orgainsations Carmen mentioned during our conversation:

• National network of abortion funds 
• https://trustwomen.org/donate/
• https://feministcenter.org/donate/
• https://www.preterm.org/monthly
• https://www.emmagoldman.com/help-out.html

Follow Carmen  on Instagram @carmen.winant Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback and maybe five stars if we're worthy in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher chats to The Museum of Modern Art Photography Curator Roxana Marcoci. Using some of Roxana’s recent and upcoming exhibitions as jump off points, we explore everything from the ethical responsibility of curatorial practice to the evolving relationship between humans and technology. Roxanna talks about who inspires her, how her approach is guided by deep relationships and informed risk, and her rallying cry to all of us to be bolder in our artistic endeavours.  

Roxana Marcoci is the David Dechman Senior Curator and Acting Chief Curator of Photography at The Museum of Modern Art. She holds a PhD in art history, theory, and criticism from the Institute of Fine Arts at New York University. She is a recipient of the 2011 Center for Curatorial Leadership Fellowship. Marcoci has chaired the Central and Eastern European group (2013-2023) and is currently the inaugural Chair of the West Asia group of MoMA’s Contemporary and Modern Art Perspectives (C-MAP) program. In 2010 Marcoci co-founded MoMA’s Forums on Contemporary Photography, an experimental platform for free-form critical discussions about the perspectives and scope of image-making among artists, curators, and cultural theorists. Her research engages transnational and diasporic histories of feminist art and new models of solidarity. Marcoci has published over 50 essays on modern and contemporary art and co-authored the three-volume Photography at MoMA (2015/17).

Marcoci has curated numerous exhibitions, including LaToya Ruby Frazier: Monuments of Solidarity (2024); An-My Lê, Between Two Rivers/Giữa hai giòng sông/Entre deux rivières (2023); Wolfgang Tillmans: To look without fear (2022), which traveled to the Art Gallery of

Ontario (2023) and the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (2024); Our Selves: Photographs by Women Artists from Helen Kornblum (2022); Carrie Mae Weems: From Here I Saw What Happened and I Cried (2020); Louise Lawler: WHY PICTURES NOW (2017); Zoe Leonard:Analogue (2015); From Bauhaus to Buenos Aires: Grete Stern and Horacio Coppola (2015); Christopher Williams: The Production Line of Happiness (2014); The Shaping of New Visions: Photography, Film, Photobook (2012); Taryn Simon: A Living Man Declared Dead and Other Chapters I–XVIII (2012); Sanja Iveković: Sweet Violence (2011); Staging Action:Performance in Photography Since 1960 (2011); Pictures by Women: A History of Modern Photography (2010); and The Original Copy: Photography of Sculpture, 1839 to Today (2010).

Follow Roxana on Instagram @roxanamarcoci Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback and maybe five stars if we're worthy in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In this episode, Gem Fletcher chats to the curator and writer Lou Stoppard about Exteriors, her new exhibition at MEP Paris and a book of the same title published by MACK. The project takes the writing from Annie Ernaux’s Exteriors where Annie endeavoured to ‘describe reality through the eyes of a photographer.” Lou takes this work and asks the question Can you see a text? Can you read a photograph? And pairs Annie’s texts with images from the MEP’s collection to offer viewers a provocation on how to  see the world anew.  In this conversation, we discuss Lou’s approach to exhibition making, her collaboration with Annie, how she thinks about audience and much more. 

Lou has written for The Financial Times, Aperture, The New York Times and The New Yorker. Her books include a survey of the work of street photographer Shirley Baker, published by Mack in 2019, 'Pools', an exploration of swimming in photography, published by Rizzoli in 2020, and Exteriors: Annie Ernaux and Photography, published by Mack in 2024, to time with an exhibition of the same name at MEP, Paris.

Follow Lou on Instagram @loustoppard Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback and maybe five stars if we're worthy in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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In today's minisode, Gem Fletcher speaks to Brea Souders about her latest book Another Online Pervert, which charts her multi-year conversation with a female-programmed chatbot. The book published by Mack, combines excerpts from their conversation with images from her archive. It is highly charged, jumping between the playful and mundane to the dark and ruthless as she unpacks the complex relationship between humans and machines in a provocative publication that invites us to think about the future of our own humanity. 

The TMT minisodes are short, focused conversations with photographers on books, exhibitions, and special projects, focusing on not just how these endeavours came into being but also what they bring out in us in terms of growth and reflection.

Follow Brea on Instagram.  Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a review. It really helps like minded people find the podcast. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. 

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In this minisode, Gem Fletcher speaks to previous guest Micaiah Carter about his first monograph, What’s My Name. The book, published by Prestel, charts over a decade of Micaiah's work interlaced with images from his parent's archives dating back to the 1960s. His work, often celebratory in tone, is a true care practice for everyone he collaborates with. We dig into the emotional labour of making a book, what he discovered about himself and what he had to overcome to put himself out there to create a new American dream. 

The TMT minisodes are short, focused conversations with photographers on books, exhibitions, and special projects, focusing on not just how these endeavours came into being but also what they bring out in us in terms of growth and reflection.

Follow Micaiah on Instagram. Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a review. It really helps like minded people find the podcast. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. 

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Gem Fletcher chats to Rene Matić about a moment of flux in their practice. They are looking differently at the world, their work and the relationships they hold close. There is a change of pace, intention and visual language brewing for the artist who has literally not stopped making since they picked up a camera five years ago. In the episode, they talk about their first solo show, Kiss them from me, at Chapter NY. They also dig into friendship, love, being with each other, tiredness, optimism, nationalism and patriotism and above all rudeness, which is a guiding principle of their practice. 

Rene Matić (b. 1997, Peterborough, UK) is a London-based artist and writer whose practice spans across photography, film, and sculpture, converging in a meeting place they describe as "rude(ness)" - an evidencing and honouring of the in-between. Matić draws inspiration from dance and music movements such as Northern soul, Ska, and 2-Tone as a tool to delve into the complex relationship between West Indian and white working-class culture in Britain, whilst privileging queer/ing intimacies, partnerships and pleasure as modes of survival. 

Follow Rene on Instagram. Follow Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode please leave a review. It really helps like-minded people find the podcast. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth, we will be back very soon. 

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Andi Galdi Vinko is an internationally acclaimed artist working in photography. Her work draws visual analogies between intensely personal and intimate experiences of motherhood and womanhood and universal human experiences of coming of age, ageing, loss, and the conflict between Western and Eastern European ideologies. In this episode, we talk about her award-winning book, Sorry I Gave Birth I Disappeared But Now I’m Back and everything that went into the project. We also talk about survival strategies and the experience of being a working parent and artist. 

Andi has been commissioned and published in magazines such as the FT Weekend, Apollo Magazine, Wallpaper, The Guardian, The Observer, Zeit Magazine, Volkstrant Magazine, M Le Monde, Die Zeit, El Pais, i-D, Dazed, Vice, The New Yorker, Tate etc, among others. Her recently published book (Sorry I Gave Birth I Disappeared But Now I’m Back, Trolleybooks, London) was launched at Unseen Amsterdam, at Paris Photo at Ruptures Associes, at TJ Boulting Gallery in London, and Bildband in Berlin with Felix Hoffman. She also won the 2023 Kraszna Krausz Book Award. 

Follow Andi @andigaldi & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Iranian-American photographer Sinna Nasseri describes his ability to catapult viewers into every scene he captures as a "gonzo journalism curiosity." He brings the audience along with him, always thinking about what they want to see. As a self-taught photographer, the path was in no way easy, and he continues to craft a life that enables him to work but with the necessary sacrifices. In a surprising turn of events, 2020 became the year that put Sinna on the map. On the show, we talk about the highs and lows of building a career in the photo industry, what makes a good photo, the pressure and discomfort that comes with figuring out your style and a rhythm of working, while also understanding the conditions in which you do your best work.

The photographer has spent the last three years working on assignments for The New York Times, Vogue, GQ, Departures, The Sunday Times and Interview Magazine and collaborating with clients like Thom Browne. He lives and works in LA.

Follow Sinna @strange.victory & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Since the 1990s, Vinca Petersen's work has remained an authentic voice of European counterculture, providing diaristic windows onto alternative spaces and lifestyles. A multidisciplinary artist who works in the area of social practice, Petersen's works emerge from a deep social and political engagement with underrepresented communities, giving them a voice and recognition. Her photographic oeuvre captures a period spanning 1990-2004, documenting the artist’s experiences as part of the free party and traveller community. The images juxtapose the sense of escapism and euphoria of this unique cultural moment with the oppressive political climate which outlawed the lifestyles of those responsible for Britain’s rave scene. As well as archiving thousands of photographic images, Petersen has attempted to document a way of life: its flyers, posters and clothes; her work constitutes an archive that records the techno-fuelled raves and lives of the travellers who organised them, but also a creative response to breaking barriers between individuals.

Vinca Petersen’s (b.1973) recent solo exhibitions include Make Social Honey - A Collective Search for Joy, Northern Gallery of Contemporary Art, Sunderland, UK (2022); Raves and Riots, Edel Assanti, London, UK. Selected group exhibitions include Techno Worlds, Goethe-Institut, Los Angeles, USA (2022); Sweet Harmony: Out of the Underground, HetHEM, Amsterdam, The Netherlands (2022); It’s a Rave Dave, Giant Gallery, Bournemouth, UK (2021); Night Fever: Designing Club Culture, V&A Dundee, Dundee, UK (2021); Rave, Saatchi Gallery, London, UK (2019); Seaside Photographed, Turner Contemporary, Margate, UK (2019); Diaristic Books, Turner Contemporary, London, UK (2019). Her work is in several public collections including The Arts Council Collection, London, UK; National Portrait Gallery, London, UK; The Monsoon Collection, London, UK; Victoria & Albert Museum, London, UK. Vinca Petersen (b. 1973) lives on the Isle of Skye. 

You can support Vinca's work here: https://www.patreon.com/VincaPetersen

Follow Vinca @vincapetersen & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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Balarama Heller's practice reimagines archetypal symbols found in the natural world. He explores primal symbols and patterns, both real and imagined, working towards a visual language of preverbal awareness. These symbols interact in a ceaseless cycle of creation and destruction, referencing the cosmological, mythological, and atomic scales. During our conversation, we talk about how his personal history informs his work, his research practice and how he is shifting away from direct observation to the most reduced and refined versions of his work. 

Balarama lives and works in New York City. Recent exhibitions include Sacred Place with Aperture Foundation / Artsy. Recent group shows include Maelstrom, at 303 Gallery,  New York, You Can't Win, Jack Black's America curated by Randy Kennedy at Fortnight Institute, What's Outside the Window at ReadingRoom, Melbourne AU, Agnes B New York, New Artists at Red Hook Labs and the 2015 Aperture Summer Open. In 2014, he published his first artist book, Into and Through. Zero at the Bone received 1st place for the 2017 Center Awards Editor’s Choice and runner-up for the 2017 Aperture Portfolio Prize. His 2019 project Sacred Place was featured in Aperture Magazine issue 241, with text by Pico Iyer. 

Follow Balarama @balaramaheller & Gem @gemfletcher on Instagram. If you've enjoyed this episode, PLEASE leave us your feedback in the Apple Podcast store. Thank you for listening to The Messy Truth. We will be back very soon. For all requests, please email hello@gemfletcher.com

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