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The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com Connect on socials: Twitter/X - https://x.com/RyanHawk12 Instagram - @RyanHawk12 LinkedIn - @RyanHawk My new book, The Price of Becoming, is a USA Today, LA Times, Success Magazine, and Publishers Weekly Best-Seller! I think you'll find it useful. This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Seth Godin is the author of more than 20 bestselling books, including Purple Cow, The Dip, and This Is Marketing. He has written a blog post every day for more than two decades, and it remains one of the most widely read blogs in the world. Before the books, Seth founded Yoyodyne, one of the first internet marketing companies, and sold it to Yahoo in 1998. He later created the altMBA. His new book is The Knot: Problems Can Be Solved. Key Learnings Being early is a courtesy, not a personality trait. "I don't understand why someone would willfully waste somebody else's time." The knot is the point. You can't have a pretzel without the knot, and if you try to undo it you end up with crumbs. Real life isn't like that. Our knots can actually be untied. Teach so that people teach themselves. Seth builds everything around a metaphor that gives people scaffolding, because "the only kind of learning that really happens is autodidact self-learning." Give someone the structure to figure it out and they'll never forget it. Name the baggage, drop the baggage, ship the work. The easiest thing to do with our freedom is pretend it doesn't exist. A man with nine million dollars in the bank told Seth he has to keep doing the work he's known for, because he needs to make a living. No, you don't. Same with the student three years into a four-year degree he hates who says he has to finish. You can choose to finish. Nobody is making you. We stay stuck because it's comfortable. It keeps us safe, guarantees an excuse, takes us off the hook. No agency means no responsibility.  It isn't friction, it's hidden entanglements. Friction sounds like a law of nature you can't argue with. Entanglements are long-told stories about how the world is, who we are, what we fear, where our status sits. They form an invisible web, and unlike physics, they're ours to cut. The tell is when a problem gets treated like a situation. In Canadian Inuit territory, people are 500 times more likely to contract tuberculosis than someone in Toronto. We know how to cure it, for a tiny fraction of the healthcare budget. Calling it a situation is what lets everyone off the hook. The blue sweater. As a high school sophomore, Jacqueline Novogratz wore her favorite sweater, a gift from her uncle, blue and white wool with the Alps on it. Cheerleaders teased her for it. She went home and dropped it in a Goodwill box. Fifteen years later, running through the streets of Rwanda at 7:00 in the morning, she saw a seven-year-old boy wearing it. She chased him down, looked in the collar, and found her own name on the tag. That was the moment she let go of being the Stanford grad on the fast track at a New York bank. She has spent the decades since building Acumen and its patient capital model, and by Seth's last count, 600 million of the poorest people on earth live better because of it. What makes someone a leader: they decide to. It has nothing to do with your title. You can lead from anywhere in an organization. Seth gets stuck every single day, and most of the time he stays stuck. That's fine. What matters first is clarity: who is this for, and what is it for? Getting unstuck always means leaving something else behind. The woman with more figure skating gold medals than anyone in history didn't get them by having a life. She got them by having no life for fifteen years. Completely unstuck on gold medals. Deeply stuck on everything else. It's the word "but" that traps you. We only feel stuck when we want one thing and another, and won't be happy without both. Swap the but for an and, or admit which one you're trading away. Six to nine ideas a day, one gets published. Most never get past three words. If you need the perfect idea before you begin, you will never begin. Find the room inside the system, then leave when the system is the obstacle. Jesse Cole inherited minor league baseball's constraints and worked inside them: ridiculous name, puns, a cheering section of seventy-year-old women called the Nana Bananas, players recruited for charisma over hitting. Years of sellouts, home and away. Then the league itself became the thing in the way, so he left it. Multiple things fail at every Bananas show, every single night. That's the price. The question worth sitting with is what it actually costs you to not be perfect. If Seth's book The Practice were one page long, it would say give up your commitment to being perfect and be useful instead. The reason most people don't try isn't cost or risk. Before an event with 185 people, Seth turned the 80-page PDF of bios into a 7,000-word article about everyone there, then had it read back to him in a clone of his own voice, and listened on the drive over. Thirteen minutes, twenty dollars. Nobody else at the event had tried anything like it. "So what's keeping you from doing something like that?" It's not a failure muscle, it's a generous failure muscle. The internet version has become a failure Olympics, asking a donut shop for a dozen free donuts just to get rejected. Seth calls that selfish. The real question is "Who might I be able to help with the next thing that might fail?" Stress and tension are not the same thing. Stress is wanting two things you can't both have. Reduce it. Tension is the engine, and you can't shoot a rubber band across the room without pulling it backward first. Taylor Swift announcing 8,000 seats is inflicting tension on her fans, and that tension is what releases into joy. No concert, no tension, no joy. Great teachers create the conditions for people to see the gap. There's always a moment where you know you could learn something and haven't yet, and that moment feels like incompetence. Some people meet it and opt out because nobody convinced them the tension was worth it.  Effective leadership is voluntary. Force people to follow you and you're a manager. Teaching canoeing at summer camp in 1977, Seth was competing with windsurfing and horseback riding for twelve-year-olds who could choose anything. He couldn't require anyone to come to his dock, so he built the conditions instead. And when a kid said he'd rather go sailing: "It's not my job to persuade everyone. It's my job to persuade someone." Jackson Pollock wanted two things and got neither. Three years as the most celebrated American painter of the century, then he told Lee Krasner he didn't want to spend his life painting cover versions of Jackson Pollock. He changed his method, format, even his canvas sizes. His momentum guaranteed a big first show. Everyone hated it and nothing sold, and what followed was a spiral that ended in a fatal crash. Coming up, he had accepted rejection as the cost of the work. Later he wanted that and acclaim and wealth. Needing both, he got neither. Rules in one area free up energy for another. No alcohol, no drugs, no meat in forty years, no dairy. The point isn't the rules, it's that Seth never renegotiates with himself about any of it. Seth's answer to the champagne question: he doesn't celebrate. The day he sold his company to Yahoo he wasn't happy, because it was the end of something. Hitting the New York Times list a second time, he cried, not from joy but because he felt nothing. "I had done the work. I didn't need to make the list." His prize is noticing that someone he talked to yesterday is closer today to where they want to go. Action

• Name one thing you tell yourself you have to do. Say it out loud as a choice instead. Do you still choose it?
• What's the thing you'd try this week if the only cost of failing was that it didn't help anyone? Who would it help if it worked?

If you enjoyed this episode with Seth Godin, check out my in-person conversation with Jesse Cole, owner of The Savannah Bananas! 
Podcast Chapters 00:00 Apply for the Learning Leader Circle  00:59 Meet Seth Godin  03:06 Why There's a Knot in the Pretzel  06:10 Name It, Drop It, Ship It  09:30 Not Friction, Hidden Entanglements  10:59 The Blue Sweater in Rwanda  14:42 Seth Gets Stuck Every Day  16:25 How He Blogs Every Single Day  17:10 The Bananas Found Room in the System  21:42 The Book That Weighs 18 Pounds  25:11 Thirteen Minutes, Twenty Dollars  27:05 The Generous Failure Muscle  28:05 Tension Is the Engine, Stress Is the Trap  30:17 You Can't Make Anyone Follow You  33:05 Pollock Wanted Two Things  35:22 Designing the Default  39:35 What Canoeing Taught Him About Leadershi

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book - The Price of Becoming  www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Connect with me on socials Twitter/X - @RyanHawk12 Instagram - @RyanHawk12 Join 10's of thousands of leaders, subscribe to Mindful Monday My guest: Ravi Gupta is the founder of RePublic Schools, whose flagship Nashville schools became the first in Tennessee to rank in the top 5% statewide for both growth and achievement. He co-founded Arena, which trained more than 7,000 political staffers, worked on the first Obama campaign, and wrote speeches for UN Ambassador Susan Rice. Today he runs The Branch, a media company fighting polarization. His new book is The Invisible List: One Passion a Year, Every Year. Key Learnings One new passion a year, every year. When Ravi left his job running schools, he decided to treat every year like a school year with himself as the only student. He's done it for seven years. Surfing, tennis, screenwriting, a novel, Italian cooking. Be an anti-dabbler. The seductive version is a little boxing, a little salsa dancing, a little cooking. You get fifteen years of sampling and none of the skill. Pick the thing, commit to the year, see it through even if you come to regret the pick. The rule that makes it work: no new thing midyear. You can maintain old passions. You cannot start a new one. He broke his own rule and learned why it exists. Bored one day and avoiding his cooking, Ravi walked into a Muay Thai gym on his corner. He loved the class, walked out, and told himself it was off the table until January 1. The pull wasn't interest. It was the rush of early wins, and that rush is the most convincing form of procrastination there is. Trying something and quitting can be worse than never trying. Once you've tasted it, you start seeing it everywhere, and you replay the version of your life where you stuck with it. Pair a reasonable goal with a delusional one. Ravi almost always hits the reasonable one. He almost never hits the unreasonable one right away, but he often gets there eventually. The pairing is the point. Tim Ferriss's observation on why that works: there's less competition for big crazy goals, because so few people think that way anymore. December is the meta-learning month. Thanksgiving to New Year's, Ravi wraps up the current year and pulls together the next one: the books, the experts, the sequence, what it actually means to be great at the thing. Don't start researching it in August. He has next year's candidates in his head by late summer, but he refuses to buy books or line up coaches until December. Planning next year's passion is an elaborate way to avoid this year's. Output goals need a skill set attached. Example: hiking an outrageous number of national parks. Ravi's counter: keep the output goal, but build the skills underneath it. Pitching a tent, starting a fire, navigation, survival prep. Then the year leaves you with something beyond a number. Each year becomes a chapter. 2020: surfing. 2021: tennis. Childhood is memorable because it's divided into grades with names attached. Adult years blur into one undifferentiated stretch, and Ravi thinks that blur is part of why people get depressed looking backward and forward. The reframe on aging: turning 50 in seven years is only grim if those are seven blank years. Seven more passions is a different sentence entirely. Join an accountability group. The Invisible Posse is a group of readers all pursuing their own skills at the same time, at readinvisiblelist.com. New challenge every two weeks, a leaderboard, points for doing the work. The list is a solo project. The accountability isn't. Do the thing publicly in the first two weeks. The group's first challenge was to do your new skill in front of people immediately. The winner was a man learning to sing who sat his cousins down on vacation and performed a whole song. Once you're past being judged, you're doing it instead of planning it. The second challenge is the one most people skip: get feedback from someone who actually knows how to do it, then do it again. Protecting your time is on you. From Neil Strauss, in a writing group Ravi joined during his writing year: "It's nobody's responsibility but your own to protect your time." The complaint that nobody respects your boundaries is a complaint about your own boundaries. Which means the conversation has to be explicit. You take Saturday, I take Sunday. One of us has mornings. I've carved out 45 minutes and you know about it. Writing is especially hard to defend because it doesn't look like work. Treat your session time like a flight. Strauss again, this time on writer's block. Nobody waits to feel motivated before going to the airport. You wake up early, sit in the security line, get wedged next to someone taking up too much room, and you never treat any of it as optional. Put the sessions on your calendar and defend them the same way, whatever your thing is. The question that ended writer's block for good: your mom is a nurse, does she get nurse's block? When Ravi still stalls, he falls back on Hemingway's one true sentence, and since the surgery, he dictates rather than types if that's what it takes to get words out. Teach tools, not answers. The book's dedication is to the teachers who gave Ravi tools instead of answers. He trained his own teachers not to be "the sage on the stage." He can't name a single fact those teachers gave him. He can name what they built in him. A doctor friend gave him a portable framework instead of an opinion. When Ravi tore his bicep, friends told him to take peptides. Rather than answering yes or no, his doctor friend walked him through the questions: what's the theoretical mechanism, what do controlled peer-reviewed trials actually show, what are the downsides? Ravi now uses it on everything. In a disagreement, show your process, not just your conclusion. If you lay out how you arrived at an answer, the other person may not accept the answer but can engage the method, or show you where you went wrong. It lowers the heat. The 10 out of 10 version of humility. Andy Greenwald wrote a piece ripping Anthony Bourdain, comparing him to a lion declawed and put in a zoo. Bourdain read it, told his staff, "This guy got me," then had the team invite Greenwald over for a conversation. Nurturing your own passions is not stealing from your family. The oxygen mask applies. Your kids will be more inspired by you and your spouse, more drawn to you if you're a person who is actually lit up by something. Presence alone is a thin theory of parenting. Ravi would rather have had a father who skipped a game to pursue something real and then talked about it over dinner than one who dragged himself to the bleachers out of obligation. Availability matters. So do wisdom, example, and energy. People are drawn to anyone who is fully activated. The musician playing a Nashville bar at 2:00 PM on a Wednesday who is completely in it, playing like the room is full. Ravi's champagne moment a year from now: settling down. Not flying airplanes, not the bestseller list. He says he needed the seven years of this process to come out a whole person capable of devoting himself to someone else again. A relationship or parenting year is a legitimate list item, but not the first one. Most people have been too selfless already and need the selfish pursuits first. And it only works if you attack it systematically, with real metrics, because that kind of goal gets squishy fast. Action

• What is your one thing for 2027? Name the reasonable goal you'll hit with consistent effort, and the delusional one that scares you a little.
• Look at your calendar for next week. Where is the time for that thing, and who in your life needs to know it's protected before Monday?
• If you enjoyed this episode with Ravi Gupta, check out episode #647 with Tim Ferriss: Chasing Your Curiosity
  

Episode Chapters
00:00 Apply for the Learning Leader Circle 01:36 Meet Ravi Gupta 03:09 Three Injuries, One Arm 05:03 Teachers Who Give Tools, Not Answers 06:58 A Framework Instead of an Opinion 10:36 Why Hosting a Show Changes Your Mind 13:59 Bourdain: "This Guy Got Me" 16:28 His Mom and the Yale Law Tour 20:31 One Delusional Goal, One Reasonable One 23:56 The Anti-Dabbler Rules 29:13 Nobody Protects Your Time But You 33:25 How He Actually Became a Writer 37:06 How He Picks the Year's Skill 38:50 Salsa and the Unfinished Ending 40:35 The Burnout Wake-Up Call 43:09 Your Passions Make You a Better Parent 48:19 The Invisible Posse Challenges 51:09 The Champagne Question 54:05 Make Relationships a Skill 55:55 Skills Underneath the Goal 01:00:19 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book: The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Connect with me on X: @RyanHawk12 Instagram: @RyanHawk12 LinkedIn - Ryan Hawk Receive "Mindful Monday" (free) This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral researcher, Harvard instructor, and founder of Science of People. Her books Captivate and Cues have been translated into 18 languages, and her work reached more than 300 million people last year. Her new book is Conversation: How to Connect with Anyone and Make Every Interaction Count. Key Learnings Small talk is required for big talk. You can't skip it. You can do it better. Conversation is a skill with micro skills underneath it, and small talk is one chapter. Two traps make small talk painful. Autopilot (asking questions without actually connecting) and going for facts instead of stories.  Awe is the best small talk ingredient. "Wow, that's amazing," or "What is that?" Positive awe is wow. Negative awe is compassion: "Everything okay? Can I help?" Both solicit stories. Both work only if you mean it. Awe beats a compliment. A compliment lands. Being visibly wowed by something invites the story behind it. Be story ready. When someone asks how you are, don't hand back good, fine, busy. Have something loaded: "Today the craziest thing happened." You break the script with your answer before anyone has to break it with a question. Flip your questions into story hunters. Not "how are you" but "What's been good?" or "Tell me something good." Slight change, big shift toward optimism. Or check in on something specific from before. "I noticed you dedicated the book to your daughters. How old are they now?" The update question does the work that the generic one can't. Katie Couric never asks "what do you do?" She asks "What do you like to do?" Vanessa found it in Couric's memoir. One-word swaps have major potential. Turn small talk into a treasure hunt. Everyone has gold. You don't know what it is yet. Your job is to ask the questions that find it. Treasure hunting also kills the awkwardness. Vanessa calls herself a recovering awkward person. Her problem for years was that her goal in conversation was to be impressive. No good conversation comes from that. Curiosity has to be innate. Vanessa thinks nearly everything is teachable. Not this. If you aren't actually curious about the person, the techniques will read as manipulative, and eventually you get found out. The rule on using someone's name: if you're already thinking about it, use it. If you're not thinking about it, don't. That's the whole test. Three levels of connection, and you have to go in order. From Dr. Dan McAdams. Level one is general traits: occupation, hometown, family status. Level two is personal concerns: goals, motivations, values, what drives and worries someone. Level three is self-narrative. Put your work relationships in level two. That's the practical instruction. Most people stall at level one and assume level two isn't work-appropriate. It is, and conversations get more engaged, collaborative, and productive once you're there. Level three is about frames, not facts. Two people can have identical facts and completely different stories about what those facts mean. Self-narratives are self-creating. People who see themselves as lucky approach the world as lucky people. They spot more opportunities, think more laterally, and create more surface area for good things. Unlucky people do the same thing in reverse. Narratives are editable. They're not Enneagram or Myers-Briggs. They shift, usually on an annual scale, most often through conversation with someone you trust. Journaling alone rarely does it. The five re-storying questions. Who am I now? Who do I want to be? How do I get from here to there? How do I make change stick? Who can help me?  Be a loud liker. A friend asked Vanessa to assess a date named Tim. Her read: meh. Before she could say so, the friend told her Tim had loved her, thought she was fun, and bought all her books. Vanessa's opinion of Tim reversed on the spot. She was embarrassed by how fast. The lesson from Tim: when someone clearly likes you, you feel at ease, you feel more likable, and you like them back. Very few of our impressions of people are fixed. You can't like too loudly if it's authentic. Vanessa's hot take. Gushing is fine. The only failure mode is inauthenticity, or liking so loudly you prevent the conversation from happening. Warmth, then competence. Susan Fiske's research, quoted directly: "Competence without warmth leaves people feeling suspicious." Leading with data and numbers reads like you're hiding something. Warmth is the lubricant that lets people accept your competence. Powerful people get informal fast. BJ, a CEO I hadn't seen in a year, leaned into the camera on a Zoom and said, "This makes me so happy." Straight past the formality. The myth is that power requires sterility. The most powerful people have enough confidence in their status to give likability away. Proxemics: we read physical space as emotional space. Four zones. Public is five to seven feet. Social is four to six. Personal is a foot and a half to three feet. Intimate is under 18 inches. Leaning toward the edge of someone's intimate zone signals that you want to be close, and it works on camera too. Let your body do what it wants when you like someone. It already wants to lean in, make eye contact, get closer. Most of us hold it back. Shared language is the key to our hearts. I give my daughter's friends nicknames. Millie is Mill Dog. Georgia gets "What up, G?" Vanessa calls that an inside joke, and inside jokes create belonging. It also proves you remembered them. Availability is more attractive than attractiveness. In Dr. Monica Moore's bar study, the most attractive women were not approached most. The women who sent the most availability signals were: brief glances, long glances, body angling, smiles. It took roughly 35 signals an hour to get approached. Never ask "been busy lately?" It invites the other person's brain into pessimism, primes them to search for everything they're behind on, and reminds them they should be somewhere else. Then they complain, and listening to complaining is the most exhausting form of conversation there is. Bragging about being busy makes you look less competent. The research is counterintuitive. People think volume signals importance. It reads as someone who doesn't have a handle on things. "Oh, good busy or bad busy?" 90% of the time you get a real story about a project or a goal. The other ten percent opens the door to "What's going on? Can I help?" Either way, you just moved to level two. Two secret doors into level two at work: goals and learning. A goal taps motivation, core values, and future self. Learning activates growth mindset. Test yourself on the five people you work with most. Do you know each one's current work goal and personal goal? Vanessa knows who on her team is training for a marathon and what their KPIs are. Make it a norm, not an occasion. Vanessa's global team opens every weekly call with "tell me something good." One quick win each, personal or professional. It gave wins a place to live that isn't bragging, and it replaced the boring small talk that used to open the call. The nine power questions, for the most important people in your life. Three per level. 1) Working on anything exciting these days? 2) Have any fun plans coming up? 3) What's your personal passion project? 4) What's your biggest goal right now? 5) What have you always wanted to learn? 6) What do you love to talk about? 7) What book, movie, or TV character are you most like and why? 8) How do you feel most misunderstood? 9) What would you do if you weren't afraid? Question four is also a secret to strong marriages. Partners discussing shared dreams is vision casting. It reminds you both where you're going and shapes what you do today. Some marriages live in strategy. Most get trapped in logistics. Question seven is the backdoor to level three. Asking someone their self-narrative directly doesn't work. Asking what character shares their values, choices, and personality gets the richest narrative answers, because it makes them step outside themselves. If you don't like people, treat it like a social gym. The first few reps hurt and you can only do three. And when you're stuck with someone you don't like, the intention becomes: how do I get to know this person enough to find one thing I authentically like? That's a muscle. Go to the gym with a plan. Wandering machine to machine is aimless and exhausting. So is walking into a room with no conversational intention. Vanessa's plan is always the same: discover. Vanessa's champagne moment a year from now: a conversation coach in every company and every school. She thinks the chief conversation officer role is coming. We've moved our small conversations onto Slack, which is transactional, and lost the water cooler. If we want engaged teams and less burnout, someone has to build the safe spaces and the prompts

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk https://www.LearningLeader.com My new book, https://amzn.to/4cNwKso, is a USA Today, LA Times, Success Magazine, and Publishers Weekly bestseller! I think you'll find it useful. Connect with me on Twitter/X: https://x.com/RyanHawk12 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanhawk12/?hl=en Sign up for https://ryanhawk.kit.com/profile (it's free):  This is brought to you by https://insightglobal.com/learningleader/. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Danny Meyer is the founder of Union Square Hospitality Group and one of the most influential restaurateurs of his generation. He built New York landmarks like Union Square Cafe and Gramercy Tavern, and Shake Shack... He's the author of the classic Setting the Table and the new What Could Possibly Go Right? Key Learnings "Business, like life, is all about how you make people feel. It's that simple and it's that hard." "Optimists and pessimists die the same way. They just live differently." Shimon Peres. Danny prefers to live as an optimist. Most people respond to hope. A few will come out of a dark closet hopping on a pogo stick and a few will walk on the shady side no matter what. Most people start the day intending to make it better than yesterday, and they'll follow someone who shows them how that could happen. A growing business needs funding and leadership. It also needs soil. Like a plant needs sun and water and still needs something to grow in. The soil is the culture, and it determines whether anything you plant actually grows. Be explicit about which behaviors you celebrate and which you won't tolerate. Then be relentlessly consistent about both. That's how culture survives you not being in the room. Everyone is watching who gets hired, promoted, and paid. Every time you compromise on either the skills or the character, you send a message that you didn't mean any of the words. Probably unwittingly, but you send it. Curiosity is the behavior Danny celebrates most. If you want a team that treats every day as a chance to be better than yesterday, someone has to actually wonder what could be done differently. Entrepreneurs are upsighted. Danny's word. They only see what's up, only see what could possibly go right, and they look at existing problems that would make the world better if solved. A bad salesperson answers questions you never asked. Danny remembers a shoe store that hauled out everything from the back room regardless of what he wanted. The only two questions that mattered were does it fit and do I like it. A great one gets into your shoes and asks what you'd want. Sometimes they help you get to the question you actually have. There's no job that doesn't benefit from good sales skills, and good writing skills. Entrepreneurial athleticism is the trait Danny looks for in every leader. Talent gets you in the door. Athleticism is dedicating yourself to train plus the mental and emotional mettle to find a way to win. Day one mentality. The day a restaurant opens, nothing is scratched, every door works, nothing is smudged, and you assume everyone might be a critic. Day one of year 10 should be better than the original, because you have ten years of learning. Without that, it only goes backwards. The hiring formula is 49 and 51. Forty-nine percent is how well he thinks you can do the job, which is mostly technical and different for every role. Fifty-one percent is who you are. That 51 percent is Hospitality Quotient. The composite of optimistic warmth, curious intelligence, determined work ethic, empathy, self-awareness, and integrity. Someone with a high HQ is happier themselves when they make someone else feel better. "Cooking a great piece of fish only gets you to the 49-yard line." You need all 100, and it isn't just the servers who need it. It's everybody. A high HQ is a liability in an interview. Danny sometimes has to park his own at the door, because his job isn't to make the candidate feel good. It's to assess how they'll make the staff and the guests feel. Never ask if someone is self-aware. They'll say yes. Ask instead: "What's the greatest misperception other people have about you?" You can't answer it without self-awareness, because you have to know both what you are and what you're projecting. When hiring a chef, Danny already knows they can cook. What he's testing is the feedback loop. Will they get defensive? Grateful? He may well be wrong in the feedback, and he still wants to know early what it's going to be like to lead this person. Caitlin took a reservation and saved a woman's life. She was getting a phone number when the caller's voice started halting. Caitlin sensed something was wrong, asked permission to call 911, and got the address. It was a hemorrhagic stroke. The woman survived and had to relearn how to speak. Caitlin was so moved that she went back to school to become a speech therapist for people with aphasia. When the woman died recently, she left Caitlin the money to pay for it. A good employee books the table accurately. A great one changes someone's night, or their life. Danny's point about Caitlin: nobody trained her for that. The culture did. Mind share is what marketing earns. Heart share is what hospitality earns. Mind share means people know you exist and think of you first. Heart share means they love you and tell everyone they know. The golden rule of hospitality is not the golden rule. Do unto others as you believe they would want done unto them. Service is one size fits all. Hospitality is one size fits one. The salmon that changed everything. Soon after Gramercy Tavern opened, a Union Square Cafe regular told Danny what happened was inexcusable. Her salmon came well done when she'd ordered it rare. Danny's first reaction was that an honest kitchen mistake didn't seem so bad. The mistake wasn't the problem. The response was. At Union Square Cafe, she said, the server would have noticed, quietly removed it, brought soup so her guests could keep eating, recooked it properly, and probably taken it off the bill. At Gramercy, nobody came over while she picked at it. A manager eventually took the plate, handed her a coat check, told her the rest would be waiting at the door, and left it on the bill. "If you don't have language, you cannot teach." For ten years Danny led one restaurant by embodying the behavior he wanted. With two, wherever he was, he wasn't at the other one. It was the first time he had to lead by using his words instead of just embodying what he wanted to see. Enlightened hospitality, in this order:
- Each other first. How the team treats each other, with generosity and charitable assumption.
- Then the guests.
- Then the community and the suppliers.
- Then the investors, who end up with more because of everything above.
Break it anywhere, starting with how people care for each other, and it doesn't work. Lead with generosity. You're in business for tomorrow dollars, not today dollars. His staff charged that woman for the salmon because they were afraid she was working an angle. Danny's response: where is the charitable assumption that maybe we just overcooked it? Nice and kind are different. Nice isn't a bad thing, but sometimes nice is how you avoid addressing a problem. Kind means I'm on your side, which sometimes means holding up the mirror. If someone isn't measuring up and you let it go, that isn't kind and it isn't even nice. Kindness takes the courage to give honest feedback without demoralizing the person. Laying people off during the pandemic wasn't nice. Doing it one at a time was kind. Several hundred people, and nobody got laid off by tweet or mass email. Everyone was spoken to by their own boss. Shake Shack started because Danny asked what could possibly go right. An artist needed someone to run a hot dog cart under an installation in Madison Square Park. His team said they were too busy running four restaurants. Danny's argument was that the park was the front yard of two of them, and you take care of your front yard. They staffed it with their coat checkers and served Chicago-style on purpose. The coat checkers had no work until the weather turned cold, so this gave them a summer job. Chicago-style has eight toppings, which let them find out whether four coat checkers could remember how every regular liked it. The point was proving hospitality isn't only for fancy restaurants. They lost money two years running, and the community started calling it "our hot dog cart." Danny heard the word "our" and knew people felt shared ownership. Then he gave away the building. He built a $750,000 kiosk and donated it to the park, so the park owns the building and his company owns the business. A percentage of every sale goes back into keeping the park beautiful and safe. That first Shake Shack still pays just under a million dollars a year in rent to the park. Danny's champagne moment a year from now: that the book actually meant something to people. He wrote it to teach himself, because that's how he learns. If the lessons he picked up scraping his knees turn out to be useful to someone else, it was worth it. Reflection Questions
- Which behaviors does your team know for certain you celebrate, and which do they know you won't tolerate? If you asked five of them, would you get the same five answers?

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book: The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guests:  Andy Stanley is the founder of North Point Ministries, which he started in Atlanta in 1995 and has grown into 8 churches across metro Atlanta and a network of more than 225 churches globally, serving over 200,000 people weekly. He's the author of more than 20 books, including Next Generation Leader, Visioneering, and Deep & Wide. His newest is What Great Leaders Do: 7 Essentials for Enduring Impact. He and his wife Sandra have three grown children and live in Atlanta. Sam Kaufman is the Chief Revenue Officer of Insight Global, a $5.3B talent, technical, and AI services firm. He started as an entry-level recruiter in 2004 and rose through the ranks to lead the company's core sales divisions. He's played a central role in Insight Global's transformation into a global talent and technical services organization, helping the company double in size over the past five years, and in 2026, he was named to Staffing Industry Analysts' Staffing 100 North America list, recognizing the most influential leaders in staffing. He has a degree in electrical engineering from Bucknell. Key Learnings Somebody saw it in him before he saw it in himself. Andy and Louie Giglio were the troublemakers in his dad's youth group. One morning after they'd disrupted everything, Mother Mary sat them down and told them they were leaders and needed to lead. Andy's reaction at the time: then I don't want to be a leader. She should have kicked them out, but she didn't. She kept giving them chances they didn't deserve and didn't handle well. She's about to turn 101 years old. She never had children of her own and to this day she calls them her sons. Now Andy does it for others. When he sees someone with a leadership gear, he tries to speak life into it and fan the flame, because that's what was done for him. Leadership is the most wonderful, dangerous gift. Every great thing that's happened in the world had a leader behind it. So did every terrible thing. People followed both for the same reason: the leader brought clarity to a dilemma, made a promise, and people leaned in. Andy thinks leaders are born, not made. His evidence: he's never met a leader who accomplished anything extraordinary who said they weren't a leader, then read two books or went to a conference and became one. Anyone can get better. "But you can make him a better singer and still never hand him a microphone." Problems to solve vs tensions to manage. Work-life balance is a tension. You don't solve it, you manage it. Every industry and every company has its own. "When you solve a tension, you create a problem." You can spot tension by the calendar. If it keeps reappearing on the agenda and somebody keeps saying didn't we just talk about this, you've been trying to solve something that was never a problem. Naming it changes the conversation. Once a team agrees they're looking at a tension, nobody is right and nobody is wrong, and people stop treating each other like enemies. Andy's team asks the question out loud once a month. Sam heard Andy teach this on a podcast and it moved through Insight Global in a week. He listened on the drive in, recognized the pattern live in his CEO's Thursday meeting, and shared it with 40 leaders in the room. It reached a 40,000 person company within days. Sam's read on why: they'd been having the same conversation for years and had never had the language for it. Nobody can promise certainty. You can give clarity. The only way to promise certainty is to know the future in detail. And the greater the uncertainty, the more the need for clarity is heightened. If there were no uncertainty, nobody would need a leader. When COVID made his entire model illegal, Andy redeployed. Rather than doing a half-baked version of the old thing, he pulled everyone together and told them they were hitting pause, building a new plan, and staying busy doing something different. Giving people something to do feels like clarity. You know what to do, you know when you've done it, and the organization keeps moving. Andy pairs it with Jim Collins on navigating fog: put one foot in front of the other and feel your way along. Action absorbs anxiety. Ryan's phrase, and Andy's addition: even when it isn't progress, it usually leads to progress, because there's motion and momentum. Think like a broadcast studio, not a live one. When they knew nobody would be in the room, they didn't film the old service. They rebuilt the auditorium into a television studio and talked to the camera. Sam, watching from home, still can't remember whether he was there in person. They kept the habits. Andy's view is that hitting pause and waiting to reopen the old way would have been an enormous miss. Sam says Insight Global never went back to how they were before and has grown for seven years since. "How long do you plan to stay?" Andy had lunch with John Maxwell carrying demographic research, expecting to be interrogated about how big to build. Andy said he thought this was his life's work. Maxwell said then build it as big as you possibly can. They built 2,700 seats in the middle of nowhere. Three  years later they built another one behind it that seated 2,000. That's what intuition looks like. Maxwell knew the answer without knowing how he knew it. Andy would never have connected his own tenure to the size of the building. Andy's three questions for any big decision:

• What's considered impossible in our industry, but if it could be done would fundamentally change it? From Joel Barker's Future Edge. The point isn't that you'll answer it. It's that if you don't know the question, you won't recognize the paradigm shift when somebody else answers it.
• What would the next leader do? From Andy Grove at Intel, who asked Gordon Moore what a new team would do if the board threw them out. Moore answered instantly. Grove said then why don't we walk out the door, come back in, and do it ourselves.
• What would a great leader do? Not what's expected, not the industry standard. What would a selfless, others-first, high-integrity, world-class leader do here?

The second question is terrifying because it produces instant clarity. Andy says it's how he's made the hardest personnel decisions of 31 years. You love the person and they can't keep up, and the next leader would have no emotional attachment and would see immediately what needs to happen. The best leadership decision Andy ever made was going home at 4:00. He'd resigned from his dad's church with two kids in diapers, a pregnant wife, and no insurance. Then he started the church and worked constantly. He asked Sandra what she needed and didn't want her to hold back. She said be home between 4:00 and 4:30, because by then her energy with the kids was gone. So he became the first one to leave the office. When people asked to meet after work, he said before work instead, and ate two breakfasts. He ran that routine for about ten years. "I'm gonna cheat work. I'm not gonna cheat home." The deadline made him better at his job. If you have an hour to do something it takes an hour, and if you have two it takes two. Walking out the door at a fixed time made him dramatically more efficient, and everything still got done. We're supposed to be examples of the rule, not exceptions to it. Andy encouraged his staff to make the same call, and it set the organization's standard from day one. "It's not a sacrifice, it's an investment." What he tells his kids now they're grown with their own families.. Sow and reap, and you only get one shot at it. Parent towards the relationship, not towards compliance. Andy and Sandra had two rules: honor your mother, and don't tell a lie. You can dishonor me, but not her. Lying breaks relationships, and they wanted their relationships intact. Discipline toward reconciliation instead of restriction. When his middle son Garrett was disrespectful to Sandra, Andy made Garrett call his mother, ask her on a date, take her to dinner, and pay for it. By the end of the dinner it was resolved. Don't sweat the small stuff. Andy and Sandra were foster parents for ten years. Their biological kids came over one day and watched a five-year-old foster daughter roller skate across the hardwood floors, and pointed out they'd never even been allowed to run in the house. Andy's regret is that he wasn't that way when his own kids were young. Do the eulogy exercise. From Stephen Covey. Write what you'd want people to say about you at your funeral. Andy spent several mornings on it in his early 30s. Covey's line at the end: you have just discovered your personal definition of success. He reduced it to seven words, and he won't tell anyone what they are. He used to share them until he noticed people writing them down. His view: those are his, and you have to go get your own. The exercise changed what failure means. Once Andy defined success as those values, stepping outside them wasn't just messing up. It was failing, by his own definition. Don't let your identity shift from what you value most to what you're known for. Andy is grateful for the influence, but he didn't want to become the pastor of, or the author of. He says it's especially easy for men to center on what they're known for out in the world rather than who they are at home. "I only have one unique role.

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com The Price of Becoming is a USA Today, LA Times, and Publishers Weekly National Best-Seller! www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Daniel Lubetzky graduated from Stanford Law School. And then declined lucrative job offers to start his own business, only paying himself $24,000 a year for a decade. And then he founded KIND and grew it into a snack brand that Mars later valued at $5 billion dollars. Today he invests full-time on Shark Tank, and he's the son of a Holocaust survivor whose story shaped everything he's built. Find work that gives you energy, purpose, and meaning. If you enjoy what you're doing, you're far more likely to be great at it. And you're already winning, because you get up every morning doing something satisfying. The danger of loving your work is overworking. Daniel did it building PeaceWorks and KIND. You have to pace yourself. His father survived a death march out of Dachau. Twelve and a half when he entered the camp, fifteen and a half during the march. Six feet tall and under 70 pounds, and no shoes. The Nazis were walking prisoners up a mountain to push them off a cliff because they didn't have enough bullets. A snowstorm saved his life. His father, grandfather, and uncle hugged to say goodbye. The snow buried them and formed a kind of igloo that kept them warm through the night. They woke, dug out, and the Nazis were gone. The soldiers who liberated them were Japanese American. The 442nd, the most decorated unit of its size in American history, was made up of men whose own families were being held in internment camps back home. Daniel's family had never seen an Asian person and didn't understand what they were witnessing. Seventy years later, he got to say thank you. A friend called saying they were sitting with a doctor who had a postcard from Larry Lubetzky. That was Daniel's uncle, who had just died. Daniel reconnected with the captain, who had gone on to become a scientist at Harvard, and eventually gave a eulogy at his funeral. The lesson he takes from it isn't perseverance. It's the power of one person to change another person's life. You won't pull off a rescue every day. You can still look someone in the eye at the supermarket. "You have no idea what that person's been going through." Human connection is what pulls people back. At a conference on fighting hate, Daniel heard how young people vulnerable to recruitment were pulled back by ordinary human connection. Being kind in your daily life makes it harder for the people trying to recruit them. There's no such thing as failure or success. Daniel keeps shelves of successes in one office and shelves of failures in another, and now thinks the separation is a mistake. He never would have built KIND without ten years of mistakes at PeaceWorks. PeaceWorks was a college thesis turned into a company. The argument: get neighbors on opposite sides of a conflict doing business together, and you shatter stereotypes, build relationships, and give both sides a stake in each other. He got Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, and Turks trading with one another. Daniel turned down $86,000 out of Stanford Law to pay himself $24,000. That's what he could afford, and it's what he paid his team. Grit, wit, and fit. Grit is the work ethic and refusing to give up. Wit is the strategy, the creativity to outthink competitors. Fit is whether the product actually matches what people want. Grit alone isn't enough. Do not assume he was invincible. He cried alone in his studio apartment more than once, convinced he'd made a mistake and was wasting his life. He questioned himself multiple times a day. The jerk who broke him was also right. At a trade show, a buyer told him to stop, that he was way too pushy, to give people space and get out of his life. Daniel was 25 and it broke him. Then he reflected and realized the man was correct. Don't be the ultra-passive person watching the world happen. Don't be the person who only pushes. The job is to be persistent enough to win and be loved for it, which is very hard. "I prepare for anything that I'm not prepared for." Daniel loves winging it and hates preparing. But if there's something he doesn't know, he'll put in the work today, tomorrow, and the day after. Active listening takes real energy. Daniel needs an hour to decompress after every interview he conducts. He's blunt that listening isn't his greatest strength, which is exactly why he's leaning into it. His dad was the best interviewer he ever knew, because he was a coach. When Daniel asked him a question, his father would answer with another question and let him find it himself. A great coach or parent doesn't tell you what to do. They help you ask the questions you need to ask yourself. Telling is the easier skill. Kids keep you humble, and that's the point. You need someone in your life who can call you out when you start thinking too much of yourself, whether that's your kids, your spouse, or your team. KIND started because the healthy snack aisle didn't exist. Training for the 2002 New York City Marathon, Daniel's options were food that tasted like astronaut rations or pure indulgence. Nothing was portable, wholesome, and convenient at the same time. KIND was named after his father, who died the year they launched. Everyone who met him described him the same way. He saw his mission in life as bringing smiles to others. The name became the three pillars: kind to your body, kind to your taste buds, kind to the world. They took a vote on whether to quit. Six or seven people around a table, ten hard years behind them, a major account just lost. The choice was one more shot or two months to go find jobs. They all voted to try again. Then KIND launched. Sampling was the inflection point. Daniel had been treating it as a cost. It was an investment. They went from $800 in 2008 to $800,000 in 2009 to $20 million in free product within a few years, which is what let them scale. Sampling only works if the mousetrap is right. If one in ten people like it, you'll lose your shirt. Nine in ten people who tried a KIND bar wanted to buy more. Those people became the ambassadors. Scarcity, gluttony, and resourcefulness. A wasteful culture runs you into the ground. A scarcity mentality preserves every dollar but caps your potential, because everything looks like a cost center. Resourcefulness is the middle: think like an owner, spend less where you can, and invest where it compounds. Nice and kind are not the same thing. "If you're nice, it doesn't cost you. It's easy. You can be weak and nice. But to be kind, you need to be strong." Kindness requires you to be a protagonist. What Daniel looks for in a founder:

• Integrity. If he doesn't trust them, no amount of upside matters.
• Someone worth helping. It's going to be a rollercoaster, and he'll be in the trenches with them.
• Real passion. Enough that he can sense they'll outwork everyone else.

You don't find integrity by asking about integrity. You ask other questions and watch how the person performs. Daniel says Barbara Corcoran is the best on the show at reading people this way. The four C's of a builder's mindset: curious, compassionate, creative, and courageous. Daniel credits them with building KIND, the OneVoice Movement, and everything since. Daniel's champagne moment a year from now: the Builders Movement making real progress. His argument is that every industry has a lobby representing it, and the only group without one is the overwhelming majority of citizens who agree with each other on most issues and want problems solved. He wants a movement that holds all parties and all special interests accountable to that majority.

• A scarcity mindset versus an abundance mindset. Viewing something as a cost instead of viewing it as an investment. This was Daniel's early mistake with Kind bars. He only budgeted $800 a year for samples. He viewed it as a cost. He changed his mind and realized it was an investment. He upped it to $800,000 per year in samples. And eventually to $20 million a year. Scarcity versus abundance. View it as an investment instead of a cost
• Daniel's 4 C's of a builder's mindset – curiosity, compassion, creativity, and courage for That's how you build both a company and a movement. 
• The difference between being nice and being kind. Being nice avoids conflict to protect feelings in the moment. Being kind is about being willing to risk the moment, telling the hard truth because you actually care about them.
• His dad, grandfather, and uncle – Near the end of the war, Roman, his father, and his brother were death-marched out of Dachau toward the mountains, where the guards meant to push them off a cliff. A freak overnight blizzard scattered the guards; by morning they were gone. The men who found the survivors were the 522nd Field Artillery Battalion — the only all–Japanese–American unit in the U.S. Army, many of whose own families were sitting in American internment camps at that very moment. Daniel has said those soldiers showed a tenderness that "had not been seen in 1945."

Magic – Daniel taught himself magic as a kid in Mexico City and actually worked as a traveling magician through Europe and the Middle East for the better part of a year. He still performs one magic show a year for his team... And he's said it's the

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com My new book, The Price of Becoming, is a USA Today, LA Times, Success Magazine, and Publishers Weekly bestseller! I think you'll find it useful. This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Dr. Martin Seligman is one of the most influential psychologists alive. He's the founder of positive psychology and a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, where he directs the Positive Psychology Center. His research reshaped how we understand optimism, resilience, and human flourishing. His books, including Learned Optimism, Flourish, and The Hope Circuit, have sold millions of copies. His latest is Agency: The Psychological History of Human Progress. Key Learnings The three parts of agency. Efficacy is the belief you can hit a goal right now, and it drives whether you try. Optimism is the belief you can hit it in the future, and it drives persistence and grit. Imagination is the range of goals you can even picture, and it drives creativity. When a culture has all three, it progresses. When they fall, it stagnates. "Depression and pessimism and happiness and optimism are too important to be left to happy people." Marty calls himself a born depressive and pessimist. He founded positive psychology and still wakes at 4:00 a.m. to a voice telling him he can't do the thing in front of him. What he's built over decades is the skill of arguing back, treating that voice not as truth but as a rival whose job is to make him miserable. The techniques don't come naturally to anyone. A small number of people are born happy. Everyone else has to learn and practice the skills, which is why Marty spent much of his career testing them rather than assuming they work. How you respond to good news matters more than you think. When his wife Mandy won first prize in the biggest black and white photography contest in the world, Marty could have said "congratulations, dear, you deserve it" and moved on. Instead, he named the exact photo that won, asked her to repeat what the editor said word for word, and tied her talent back to how they teach their kids. Ryan's summary of what made it work: specificity and curiosity. Marty calls it active constructive responding, and done consistently, it increases love and commitment and cuts divorce rates. Marty's contrarian take on leadership. He thinks the whole hunt for "what great leaders do" is a wild goose chase, because the great leaders he's met all do completely different things. What good followers have in common is PERMA: positive emotion, engagement, relationships, meaning, and accomplishment. His advice is to promote the leaders who create the most PERMA, and to hold managers responsible for their people's well-being, not just their output, because well-being predicts productivity. Grit and agency. Grit, the idea made famous by his former student Angela Duckworth, feeds straight into optimism and increases how long people push through adversity. On Angela: "one of the best students I've ever had," and "it's great to be outdone." He credits her rare social intelligence, the ability to build allies instead of enemies. Predicting elections by counting optimism. With his graduate student Harold Zullow, Marty studied a century of nomination acceptance speeches and found the more optimistic candidate usually wins. In 1984, they sealed their prediction of the two nominees in an envelope at The New York Times and got it right. The $17,500 lesson. Convinced by Dukakis's optimistic acceptance speech, Marty flew to Edinburgh to place a legal bet and put his entire life savings on Dukakis at 2 to 1. Then he learned the speech was written by Ted Sorensen, and that Dukakis, in his own unscripted press conferences, was deeply pessimistic. He lost everything. The takeaway that shaped his later work: measure the unscripted moments, not the polished speeches. The 2024 call. Trump and Harris were even on optimism in their convention speeches. But across September and October, tracking how each explained bad events in press conferences, Trump got steadily more optimistic. Marty's team sealed another prediction: Trump winning and possibly by a lot. Why the fired-up CEO speech doesn't work great. After Marty published his method, both political parties asked him how to write optimistic speeches. He sent the protocol, and within a few elections everyone sounded optimistic, and it stopped predicting anything, because the optimism was shallow. People don't internalize a leader saying "we're going to crush it." Real agency shows up in the psychology of the team, and that comes from who you hire and how you train them, not from the speech. What the Army taught him. As lead consultant on the Army's Comprehensive Soldier Fitness program, Marty helped train 40,000 drill sergeants and profiled 900,000 soldiers from their first day. Three traits predicted who would later earn awards for excellent work and heroism: optimism, high positive emotion, and low negative emotion. On the other side, catastrophizers were more than twice as likely to develop PTSD at every level of combat. The hiring lesson. Hire optimists and happy people. Avoid catastrophizers. And when you can't pick your team, train the pessimists you already have in the skills of agency. "Put It In Perspective." The tool Marty uses to retrain catastrophizers. Picture the ominous "come see me at 4:00" email. Write down the worst thing that could happen, then the best thing, then the most likely thing, then a plan for that most likely case. Catastrophizers skip straight to the worst case and get paralyzed. The exercise pulls them back to what's actually probable. Marry an optimist. "If you're a pessimist, disaster is to marry another pessimist," because you'll both see the worst in every setback. The wine story makes the point about behavior change: after Mandy told him he'd wrecked a family engagement dinner by sending back a bottle, Marty realized that if she complained as much as he did, he wouldn't want to be married to her. He decided to stop. The critical thoughts never went away, but the behavior did. The gratitude testimonial. Think of someone still alive who did or said something that changed your life. Write a 300-word testimonial in three parts: what they did, what you did because of it, and where you are now as a result. Then deliver it in person and read it out loud. Marty has run this with thousands of people. The usual result is that both people cry, and a month later they test as less depressed and higher in well-being. Reading the minds of the dead. Marty's method for measuring agency across history is counting words. Agentic language like "choose," "compete," "can," and "do" versus language of constraint like "obliged" and "assigned." With Claude and ChatGPT, he can now do in one morning what used to take months: reading whole eras of writing and rating how agentic they are. St. Augustine and a thousand years of stagnation. Before Augustine, around 400 AD, Christian thinkers were highly agentic and taught that you could take part in your own salvation. Augustine's doctrine that grace comes only from God set Church teaching for close to a thousand years, and progress collapsed with it. When agency climbs again, as it does under Charlemagne around 800, progress climbs too. The pattern holds when you line it up against GDP, population, and writing about freedom. The manager's real job. "It's your job as a manager not just to keep productivity going, but to increase the well-being and agency of the people under you." Do that, and you get promoted. Fail at it and your time is up. The Champagne Question... What he'd celebrate a year from now. Marty wants psychohistory taken seriously as a real field, one that measures psychological variables, uses them to understand history, and then changes them to raise future happiness and productivity. Reflection Questions:

• Marty is 84, founded the field, and still wakes at 4 a.m. to a voice saying he can't do it. What does your version of that voice say, and what does it usually say it about? When it shows up, do you accept it as fact or argue back?
• Think about the last time someone close to you shared good news. Which quadrant were you in: active constructive, passive constructive, active destructive, or passive destructive? What did you actually say?
• Marty says a manager's job is to raise the well-being and agency of their people, not just their output. If your team was measured on PERMA tomorrow, what score would they give you, and where's the gap?

If you liked this one with Marty, you should also listen to... Episode #703: Angela Duckworth - Why Grit Isn't Enough Time Stamps: 2:34 Angela Duckworth, grit & social intelligence
6:05 Active constructive responding: the Mandy photography story
12:13 Why leadership is heterogeneous, and the case for PERMA
14:49 How grit and agency fit together
16:09 The born pessimist who founded positive psychology
21:20 What the book is really about: founding psychohistory
22:52 Predicting elections & the $17,500 Dukakis bet
25:34 The 2024 prediction
29:17 Why the rah-rah CEO speech doesn't help much
31:07 What the U.S. Army taught him: optimism & PTSD
35:19 "Put It In Perspective," the tool for catastrophizers
38:55 Marry an opti

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com My new book, The Price of Becoming, is a USA Today, LA Times, Success Magazine, and Publishers Weekly bestseller! I think you'll find it useful. This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Key Learnings All the greats have a coach. Strauss is one of the most disciplined humans alive, and he has had one since he was 30. His argument: Tom Brady is an amazing athlete, but would he have performed as well with no coach, or a lousy one? A great coach is objective, encouraging, smart, and experienced. They warn you of obstacles you can't see yet. Strauss doesn't want the Socratic method from his coach. He wants direct advice. He'll use questions when he's leading others. But when he brings a problem to his own coach, he wants to be told: "You have that wrong; you're missing this." So What? Strauss was avoiding a confrontation because he knew the other person would be really upset. His coach said, "So what?" He had the conversation. The person was upset. They got to the other side, and it was better than leaving it out there. Bad news doesn't get better with age. The most effective people are the most open-minded and self-critical. The ones who insist they don't need a coach are usually the ones losing. "Arrogance is the enemy of continued success." Humility isn't pretending you're not good. Strauss says claiming he's bumbling through the job would be silly, and he's proud of what he does well. The humility is in staying open. His team's description of him: strongly held opinions, freely shared, and a mind that changes when the facts do. "You're just a terrible speaker." Strauss was 31, newly president of Vestron, and had written an eloquent after-dinner speech he was proud of. He read it off the page. His boss pulled him aside afterward and told him it was terrible. What two days of media training taught Strauss:

• Talk about what the audience cares about, not what you want to say
• Never deliver a written speech unless you're President of the United States
• Inject your personality
• Try to make them laugh

Be of service to the audience. Strauss opens his class at MIT Sloan by asking the students why they came and what they want out of it. It surprises them every time, because speakers never ask. One meeting with 20 people beats 20 meetings with one person. A young CEO Strauss coaches was sleeping four hours a night and spending 20 hours a week on one-on-ones. Strauss told him to do one weekly meeting with all 20.  Delegate with information. Everyone running a group is in the same room once a week and shares everything, including the problems. If it's business, it goes in the room. If it's personal, they can talk one-on-one. Politics shrink because nobody has information nobody else has. Happy stuff doesn't reach the CEO's desk. If it landed on his desk, it's either bad or genuinely complex. That's the system working. Align the words with the dollar signs. Mission, strategy, culture, and compensation all have to point in the same direction. Say you want to be the best in the world while paying people regardless of performance, and they will follow the money every time. The worst comp structure is CEO discretion. It builds a culture where everyone is trying to please one person, and people think pleasing someone means telling them what they want to hear. Hire the most talented people on earth, then support them through thick and thin. Strauss greenlit Dirty Dancing at Vestron on a $5.5 million budget. The first-time director was too scared to speak, so the team pitched it. They claimed the film would change how women dressed, produce an award-winning soundtrack, and win an Oscar. Strauss thought the pitch was nonsense. He didn't even like the script. He greenlit it anyway because he trusted the team over his own judgment. It became the biggest independent hit of all time to that date, a record it held until The Blair Witch Project. Be a good judge of talent, not of products. Knowing which one you are is the whole thing. Leave the escape hatches open. When competitors poured hundreds of millions into VR and the metaverse, Strauss said no. But Take-Two did enough experimentation to move fast if he was wrong, and got paid for every VR project they took on. They lost nothing on the wrong bet. Be creatively risk-forward and financially risk-averse. A well-run film studio had a 30 percent hit ratio, meaning 70 percent of what it released broke even or lost money. So you build the balance sheet first, then take the creative swings. "If you can't afford to lose, you don't play the game." Carl Icahn won because he was a good poker player with a huge stack of chips. When things went against him, he didn't sit around moaning. He went to the next game. At 68, he's up at 4:45 and in the gym by 6:45, often twice a day. Looking your best is a form of respect for other people and for yourself. If you look sloppy and out of shape, it's harder to lead. The other half is simply feeling good enough to show up with energy and a smile. He refuses to hold anyone else to his own personal standard. Everyone is on their own journey, and he doesn't want clones. Thirty minutes of walking five days a week is genuinely good for you. That person is showing up for themselves too. No AI slop in Grand Theft Auto. Take-Two builds handcrafted, building by building. Their teams will use state-of-the-art tools to do great work more efficiently. What they won't do is push a button on someone else's model and call the output theirs. "That's yesterday's headlines." Strauss's father-in-law's answer whenever anyone congratulated him. Take-Two doesn't do the who's-better-than-us party. They show sincere appreciation for great work, and then they get up the next morning and do it again. Reflection Questions

• Who is the person in your life who will tell you that you have it wrong? 
• What is the confrontation you're avoiding right now, hoping it resolves itself? Have that conversation today.
• Where are you taking real risk without the balance sheet to survive being wrong? And where are you so protected that you aren't taking any risk at all?

More Learning

• #662: Nick Thompson - Move at an Uncomfortable Pace
• #626: Rob Kimbel - The Power of Grit and Generosity
• #525: Frank Slootman - Raise Your Standards & Push the Pace

Podcast Chapters
00:00 Apply for the Learning Leader Circle 01:01 Meet Strauss Zelnick 03:00 President of Fox at 32 06:15 He Greenlit Dirty Dancing and Thought It Would Flop 09:55 How He Finds Talent 11:30 Align the Words With the Dollar Signs 18:56 One Meeting With 20 People 22:33 Up at 4:45, Gym by 6:45 26:20 No AI Slop in Grand Theft Auto 27:55 Why He Doesn't Feel Lonely at the Top 28:53 His Coach's Advice Was "So What?" 29:51 Every Great Leader Has a Coach 32:37 Direct Advice, Not the Socratic Method 35:31 What He Teaches at MIT Sloan 37:03 "You're Just a Terrible Speaker" 39:27 Arrogance Is the Enemy of Continued Success 41:03 Why He Said No to VR 43:52 Creatively Risk-Forward, Financially Risk-Averse 47:20 That's Yesterday's Headlines 49:51 EOPC    

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming My guest: Angela Duckworth is a psychologist and professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and a MacArthur "genius" grant recipient. Her book Grit was a #1 New York Times bestseller, and her TED Talk is among the most-watched ever. Her new book is Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best. Key Learnings She almost lost her mom in the Atlantic. Angela took her 87-year-old mom snorkeling miles offshore. Her mom had not swum in decades. Within minutes, she had aspirated water into both lungs and was unconscious. Angela treaded water, held her mom's head up with one arm, and waved the other until help came. Her mom is 91 now and painting. No amount of grit would have saved them. Angela could not have swum her mother to shore. What saved them was changing the situation, which meant getting other people to their side. The situation is the ocean. It's that powerful, and most of us don't know what water we're swimming in. Grit isn't wrong. It's incomplete. Angela hasn't renounced anything. She's expanding it. Effort is what you bring. The situation determines whether that effort compounds or gets swallowed. Angela was a striver, and it worked for a long time. She knew she wasn't the most talented kid, but nobody was going to outwork her. She wanted to make the cheerleading squad without being able to do a split. She wanted a solo in choir while barely able to carry a tune. She worked her way to both. Most people would be surprised how far sheer effort can take them. Then it stopped being enough. To get as far as she actually wanted to go, and to do it sustainably for herself and the people around her, ignoring the situation was a mistake.  The shift: stop making the best of your situation through effort alone, and make the situation better first. "Of all the ways you can change your behavior, willpower is the absolute worst." You can white-knuckle a donut. You just can't do it forever. Resisting works in the moment and reliably leaves people exhausted, which is why it fails on day three. Your urges come from your thoughts. Your thoughts come from your surroundings. Donut, delicious. Then your hand moves. Instead of fighting the urge, ask where the thought came from. The better question: what situation would give me different thoughts? Not "how do I resist," but "where can I be so that the thought never arrives?" Three inputs shape what you think: the people around you, the physical objects within reach, and the place you're in. Situational agency. Angela coined the term. The situation isn't given to you. It's taken. Leon Marchand was already sixth in the world. His parents, both former Olympians, didn't tell him to train harder or wake up earlier. They told him to change his situation. He emailed Bob Bowman, moved to Arizona, and within two years cut more than eight seconds off his personal best and broke Michael Phelps's last-standing individual world record. A year after that, he won four golds in Paris. What actually changed for Marchand: the best coach in the sport, a lane full of people who all believed they could win it all, better facilities and nutrition and physical therapy, and a culture where world-class was the baseline rather than the ceiling. The situation isn't a given. The situation's taken. Control the controllables. The situation is one of them. Angela agrees with the mantra. Her objection is that most people apply it only to what's between their ears: mindset, attitude, goals. Marchand didn't rethink his attitude. He got on a plane. Get the outside game right, and you get much of the inside game for free. Change the room and the thoughts change with it. Every reason you can't change your situation is probably true, and beside the point. When Angela told people what she was writing, they immediately listed the reasons they were stuck. The mother-in-law, the spouse's job, the kids' school. None of it is wrong. All of it ignores the list of things they could change. Her late father-in-law's whole philosophy was two words: show up. Wedding, funeral, baseball game. Show up. John Wooden taught high school English for 14 years. He kept an apple on his desk. He thought of himself as a teacher first, which is also why he sat high in the bleachers during games instead of courtside. He'd taught them in practice. The game was theirs. What Wooden's players took with them: to be your best at anything, find a great teacher. Angela sees a DIY culture pulling the other way. When she tells young people to email someone, the answer is often that they'll just learn it on YouTube or ask a chatbot. You can teach yourself a lot of guitar that way. You will not become a great guitarist alone. Belief is borrowed more than you'd think. Nobody tries hard at anything without the thought "I can do this" somewhere in their head. That thought usually arrives from someone else first. Angela was a self-described ditzy cheerleader throwing keg parties. Her 10th- and 12th-grade English teacher, Mr. Carr, saw a writer. He handed her books. He took time on her pages. By graduation, she was the rare Harvard freshman who signed up for a second semester of the required writing course, just to keep going. The Pygmalion effect. Bob Rosenthal made up a test, told elementary teachers which kids were about to bloom, and picked the names at random. The teachers called on those kids more, listened harder, encouraged more. By year's end, the kids fulfilled the prophecy they'd been randomly assigned. Every single person she has interviewed has a Mr. Carr. Olympic athletes, Olympic coaches, CEOs, world leaders. Someone who could see farther than they could see. Confidence is a half-filled helium balloon. It has to get batted back up again and again. Which means you don't need your mentor once. You need them on the bad days. Angela forwards her rejection letters to her team. The journals she submits to reject over 90 percent of submissions, and the rejections run eight single-spaced pages. She sends them around so the younger scientists watch her fail, hear that she's angry and discouraged, and then watch her get back up. She failed writing this book the first time. Up before dawn seven days a week through an entire sabbatical, and the clock ran out. She called her publisher and her agent to give the money back and asked whether she owed interest. They called it a pause. She said remote controls have separate buttons for pause and stop. Burnout and imposter syndrome were abstractions until they weren't. She had taught both. She had never lived either. Not eating, not sleeping. What got her out was not more effort. It was a better situation: additional editorial support and mentors to get her back on track. Frankl and Maslow argued about this for decades, and Maslow conceded. Self-actualization aimed only at yourself leaves you unfulfilled. Maslow's final writing added a level above it and named it self-transcendence. There are only two types of people: those who are humble, and those who are about to be humbled. Angela's champagne moment a year from now: celebrating the people around her. Erikson called this stage generativity, and the question it asks is how everything you've learned can help the next generation do better than you did. Her students should excel her. They should be the ones on podcasts. She wants to cede the spotlight on purpose rather than have it taken. Her core identity is psychological scientist. Not speaker. Not author. The stage is a flow state, and she's good at it, but take away the research, and it isn't her anymore. Worth knowing which one yours is. Reflection Questions

• Pick the goal you've been grinding on the longest with the least to show for it. Is that an effort problem or a situational problem?
• Who is the best in the world at the thing you're trying to learn? What would it take to send the email this week, and then get on the plane?
• What is your purpose, in one sentence, written down? Mine is to inspire others to value and pursue excellence. What's yours?

More Learning #679: Kat Cole - The Four Mindsets Every Leader Needs #591: Ryan Holiday - Do The Right Thing Right Now #673: Dan Coyle - Flourish. The Transformative Power of Creating Community

Podcast Chapters 00:00 Apply for the Learning Leader Circle  01:39 Meet Angela Duckworth  02:57 The Dedication to Her Mother  04:17 Her Mother Nearly Drowned  07:08 Grit Isn't Enough  09:47 Willpower Is the Worst  12:26 Where Your Urges Come From  14:31 Marchand Got on the Plane  19:57 The Excuses That Sound True  22:27 Wooden Taught English for 14 Years  26:25 The Confidence You Borrow  32:22 Five Minutes With Pete Carroll  34:27 A Half-Filled Helium Balloon  35:29 She Forwards Her Rejections  37:05 What Success Feels Like  40:28 Frankl, Maslow, Self-Transcendence  45:59 The Book She Failed to Write  52:57 The Champagne Question  54:03 She Wants to Be Surpassed  57:27 Scientist First, Speaker Second  01:01:34 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com The Price of Becoming is a USA Today, LA Times, and Publishers Weekly Best-Seller! www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Blake Mycoskie founded TOMS Shoes in 2006 after a trip to Argentina, where he saw children without shoes and built a company around giving away a pair for every pair sold. TOMS went on to donate more than 100 million pairs of shoes and became one of the most copied business models in the world. What most people don't know is what happened after he sold it, and I'm grateful that he was open to talking about that on this episode of The Learning Leader Show. Key Learnings Make your gratitude specific. Not "I'm grateful for my family." Name the exact thing. Blake's example from that morning: the photos the camp posted of his daughter laughing in the lake, and knowing his stoic kid does not smile like that unless she is genuinely happy. He kept the practice going for five years when he couldn't feel any of it. Blake could not name five things he was grateful for, and he had all the same things in his life he has now. He did it anyway. He credits it as one of the things that kept him going. Surfing is a great thinking practice. Surfing is mostly just sitting on the board. Three hours in the water, ten waves, maybe five minutes standing. The rest is paddling and sitting. That's why it works as a thinking practice. Capture the idea in the moment or lose it. Blake programmed the side button on his Apple Watch to open a voice memo. Every idea he has sitting on the board, he records. They're all waiting when he gets out. He hit every marker and still felt worthless. "I did everything, and I still, deep down in my soul, had this feeling like I'm not worthy, I'm not enough, and I never will be." The external validation was the drug. Selling TOMS cut off the supply. The thing that had been holding up his sense of self was suddenly gone. If you get there and it's empty, don't panic. Panicking is what Blake did, and having money meant he could make expensive mistakes fast. Build the dream house. Get divorced. One thing after another. The emptiness may be the point. Blake's read on it: if achievement delivered what society promises, you'd never go inward. Feeling hollow at the summit is what forces the inner work. He re-patterned the sentence he'd been telling himself since childhood. The old one was "you're not enough." He replaced it with "I am enough. I've always been enough." Twenty minutes every morning and every evening. Forty straight days. It worked, and he no longer needs to do it daily. Sometimes you just need a physical cue to catch the loop. That's the whole idea behind the bracelet he wears. Not magic. A reminder on your wrist that interrupts the thought. Give the second one away. Blake found the bracelet's real power was handing one to a friend. Now you're both wearing it, you're both in on it, and there's an unspoken agreement that neither of you has to have a bad day alone. Men are worse at building that than women are. Tell your kids they're enough, and keep telling them. They're going to get the opposite message from everywhere else, which is exactly why it has to come from you repeatedly. Blake says the relaxation you'll see in them is immediate. Be brutally honest about how hard the job is. Try to talk them out of it. Blake is the last interview in the process now. If he can lay out every negative and they still desperately want it, the commitment is real. "How many people did you convince not to take the role before you got the right person?" Most leaders slip into sales mode, talk the candidate into it, and end up talking themselves into the candidate. What he screens for during the interview process:

• Integrity first. If it isn't there, it surfaces fast now.
• Attitude second. The person who never says "that's not my job."
• Whether they're building a resume or joining a movement.

Find the people who cover what you're bad at. Blake is a storyteller, a vision-sharer, and high energy. He is not a supply chain guy, not a finance guy, and he has trouble saying no. So he hired around it. That's what let him actually be the chief shoe giver instead of pretending to be a CEO. Don't wait for permission. Most people stand in line at the front door. Blake looks for side doors. In Argentina he had no investors and no plan, just an idea and the words One For One. Ryan's version for his kids: everyone can apply online. Drive to the restaurant and go talk to the manager instead. Having no experience was the advantage. He'd never made a shoe, so he didn't know which rules he was breaking. Same with outdoor advertising. Same with driver's ed. He learned it from Richard Branson: ask forgiveness, not permission. Nashville wouldn't allow advertising, so he sold art instead. Blake spent two years with the city council and got there by removing the ad from the ad. No price, no call to action. Just album covers on the sides of buildings, called country music art. Once one artist had one, they all wanted one. He sold the company to Clear Channel. You don't attract what you want. You attract what you are. Want honest friends, be honest. Want peace at home, bring peace. Want trust, practice it when nobody's watching. Blake applies it to customers too: sloppy companies attract sloppy customers, and that's usually the real reason the business fails. Charlie Munger got asked how to get a great wife. He said: deserve one. Be known for doing what you said you'd do. Early on Blake didn't have the skills, so he built the reputation on execution instead. Move fast, keep it simple, do it with integrity. Momentum is a form of trust. The other half of that is not overpromising. Blake's own failure mode is getting excited, feeling falsely confident, promising something big, and missing. When it happens, own it fast and be honest, and the relationship usually survives. Be careful using a general-purpose chatbot as a therapist. Blake's warning, and the reason the founders of Sonia built a purpose-built tool instead: the big consumer models are designed to make you feel good about yourself. If you need to hear something hard, that's the last thing you want. He went from skeptic to advisor in six months. Blake met the Sonia founders at a mental health conference, tried the app to be polite, and by the third session was getting insights he hadn't gotten elsewhere. He now spends five to ten hours a week helping them. His reason for loving the work: "Now I get to be the coach instead of the athlete." Stop chasing balance. Design for harmony. Blake picked this up from an executive at Cannes who said she'd given up on balance. He goes hard in phases. Full dad mode with the office waiting on emails. Then all in on a launch and missing things at home. The measure isn't evenly split day to day. It's whether, over a year, everyone in his life feels like they got what they needed to thrive. Including him. Reflection Questions What did you actually feel grateful for today? Not the category. The specific moment. What is the sentence you've been repeating to yourself since childhood, and is it true? In your last hire, how hard did you try to talk them out of it? Or did you spend the interview selling them, and then sell yourself? More Learning #598: Sam Parr - Bold. Fast. Fun. Living by a Mantra & Building a Media Company #547: Dr. Michael Gervais - Stop Worrying About What Other People Think of You #676: Jesse Cole - Built for The Fans (The Owner of the Savannah Bananas)  Episode Chapters 00:00 Meet Blake Mycoskie 01:38 Surfing is Great for Deep Thinking 03:41 Make Your Gratitude Specific 05:39 Blake Sold TOMS and Fell Apart 11:20 Advice for Those to "Make It" and Feel Nothing 13:23 "I Am Enough" and the Bracelet on His Wrist 17:35 The No Magic Pill 19:41 The Risk of Chatbot Therapy 22:42 A Surgeon Dad, a Bestselling Mom, and the Pressure Nobody Said Out Loud 25:13 Telling Your Kids They're Enough 31:31 How He Got Country Music Art on the Side of Buildings 35:15 Learning to Be Proud of TOMS Again 38:49 Hiring Around Your Weaknesses 41:25 Try to Talk Them Out of the Job 45:07 You Don't Attract What You Want. You Attract What You Are. 46:54 Don't Wait for Permission 48:34 Be Known for Doing What You Said You'd Do 50:02 The Champagne Question: Harmony, Not Balance 52:28 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com The Price of Becoming is a USA Today, LA Times, and Publishers Weekly Bestseller! www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming My guest - Mark Pincus is the founder of Zynga, the social gaming company he built from zero to $12.7 billion, pioneering a category that generated over a billion app installs and introduced hundreds of millions of people to online play. He's a serial founder who has started ten companies, taught product development at Stanford, and made early seed investments in Facebook and Twitter. His new book is Life at the Speed of Play. Key Learnings Coaches are cheat codes. Mark has hired a surfing coach, a tennis coach, a chess coach, a life coach, and the legendary Bill Campbell. None of them were assigned to him. He went and found them. "You throw to where you swing. You don't swing to where you throw." His tennis coach, Jorge, on learning how to serve. Commit to the natural swing first. You'll miss. You'll look stupid. Eventually your brain realizes you're serious and puts the ball where it belongs. You play to get better. You don't play to win. Not this point. Not this match. What am I doing right now that makes me better in the next game? Kill the ego so it gets out of the way of you being humble and curious. Don't contort the organization around one talented jerk. Colleen McCreary, Zynga's chief people officer, kept a sign on her wall: "No jerks allowed." She once vetoed an acquisition because she believed the founder was toxic. When the organization sees you refuse to bend just to win one point, they build muscle and confidence too. You'll have periods out of alignment. That's okay. Sometimes the person is in a crucial seat and you can't swap them tomorrow. What matters is that you're aligned with the philosophy. Bill Campbell's two lessons: intellectual honesty and courage. Be committed to the deep truths above everything else, and say them to your team even when it hurts. Then have the courage to stand up to your own team, your own board, and your own investors. A well-run company is a democratic dictatorship. Campbell leaned heavily on the dictatorship half. Unapologetically. The flip side of ambition is sacrifice. Everyone says they're a ten out of ten on ambition.  Mark's test: would you toil in obscurity for the next ten years, nobody respecting what you're doing, for an 80 or 90 percent chance at something bigger than your wildest dreams? Or take the 80 percent chance at a respectable single and a pat on the back? Nobody believes in us as much as we do. That's why we become founders. At 41, VCs who had already backed Mark twice told him he was too old, too rich, and too settled to go all in on Zynga. Mark isn't all in until he is. He calls it a lazy on-ramp to curiosity. Lots of projects. Looking for signals in a lot of places. Processing. Then it flips. "When the fish are running, we're up all night throwing nets until they're done running, not until we're tired." The chess lesson: play boring. His chess coach told him if you want to beat a player rated much higher than you, play boring and conservative and let them make the mistake. He started doing it. He started winning. Your kids don't follow what you say. They follow what you do. Mark set out to be a different kind of dad than his own, who measured people by their résumé. Then he watched his 15-year-old daughter spend every waking minute with math tutors before leaving on a service trip. "How did we get here? Oh, I know how we got here. They're not listening to what Dad says. They're following what Dad does." Happiness comes from feeling useful to a community you care about. Not from being useful. From feeling it. That's Alfred Adler, by way of The Courage to Be Disliked. There are two levels of success. A life well lived is a life in alignment with what only you can bring to the world. You don't have to build Google to feel like you went for it. The ultimate success is the greatest instantiation of your talents. Use money as freedom, not lifestyle. When Freeloader sold and 28-year-old Mark had more money than he'd ever imagined, he made a list of everything he was going to buy. It totaled about $9,000. He put leather interior in his Pathfinder. He still has the vehicle.  He set a $500 million goal that had nothing to do with buying things. At a net worth around $15 million, working with a life coach, he wrote it down because that's the capital required to run a studio of teams chasing many ideas without going to anyone else with hat in hand. "Creatively, that's freedom." Retirement is spiritual death. The stretches between building things are what Mark calls the abyss. Once you've felt the high of building with a great team and shipping something into users' hands every week, it ruins you. You can't be happy with less. Over-fund the things that matter. Not every day is the same. Not every life moment is the same. When one of those moments comes, put all your best players on the ice. The Allen & Company investor tour. They told Mark it was a dog and pony show. Just shake some hands. He told his team: this is our IPO, this is our roadshow, and we are going to use every minute of it the way we want. He gave the biggest public market investors a full presentation, handed them his numbers, and told them to judge him against those numbers in a year. He met with them a year later and had crushed them. King for a day. Carol Bartz brought Mark in to talk to Yahoo's entire senior management. He spent two weeks building a presentation on how he'd run Yahoo if he were king for a day, stood up, and took over the room for an hour. They got a deal done and one person in that room came to work for him. He ran the same play on the CEO of AMEX with a credit card that competed on fun. Amex spent $75 million with them. Seven minutes with Obama became 45. Mark was told the President would ask about his kids and then the meeting would be over. He walked in with a PowerPoint on the ten bold objectives he'd run on if he were president. Obama went through the entire thing and then asked what else he had. Prepare as hard for everything going right as you do for everything going wrong. Mark had under-prepared for the version of where Obama said, "Yeah, I'm buying. What else you got?" We sleepwalk through our own biggest moments. The question isn't what's the agenda or why they want to meet with you. It's: I have five minutes with the king. What is theoretically possible here? The Book of Life. Every year during the Jewish New Year, Mark writes in the same book. Only during that window. It isn't a journal. It's a spiritual board meeting with himself. He reads back through every previous year first, then writes. Partner with your future self. "What will Mark 2030 thank me for doing right now?" It started with quitting smoking. October 19, 1994. "I pulled my own power back. If I can quit smoking and really commit to it, what else can I do?" A year later he quit his job and did something bigger. Even if you missed the big goal, ask what you actually did toward it. Did you talk about it? Did you do real things? Did you turn the boat toward it? If not, maybe you don't believe in the goal. When Mark is at his lowest, he's humbled, he picks achievable goals, and he finds the most grit. When he's winning, he picks stratospheric goals and does the worst. After his biggest successes, he isn't humble enough to succeed again, and he has to go through failure to reel himself back in. Mark's champagne moment a year from now: that the book connects for hundreds of thousands of people, and that he's built a product people find real meaning in. Reflection Questions

• If you went and hired a coach, who is the person who could most change your life right now? 
• What is your next high-stakes moment, and are you treating it like the dog and pony show or like your IPO?
• What is the one habit your future self would most thank you for making this year? What would it unlock if you actually committed to it?

More Learning #688: Dr. Henry Cloud - Your Desired Future: 5 Steps to Take You Where You Want to Go #689: Eric Ries - Why Good Companies Go Bad, and How Great Companies Stay Great #687: Jim Collins - What to Make of a Life & The 3 Types of Luck Episode Chapters 00:00 Meet Mark Pincus 01:40 Why Mark Hires So Many Coaches 02:25 Lessons From Tennis In Leading People 04:56 Refusing to Bend the Culture for One Great Player 07:03 Lessons From Bill Campbell 09:17 On Being Called a Control Freak 13:38 The Ambition Question Mark Asks Founders 14:53 What High Standards Do to Your Kids 20:55 How Mark Defines Success  23:26 Money as Freedom, Not Lifestyle 29:45 Why High Achievers Can't Retire 32:39 Over-Fund the Things That Matter 34:35 Treating a Handshake Tour Like an IPO Roadshow 35:36 King for a Day at Yahoo and Amex 38:14 Seven Minutes With Obama That Became 45 41:39 The Book of Life 45:21 Why Mark Does His Best Thinking at His Lowest 46:48 The Champagne Question 48:40 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com The Price of Becoming is a USA Today, LA Times, and Publishers Weekly Bestseller! www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guests:  My dad, Keith Hawk (also known as Pistol), spent decades leading sales teams at LexisNexis and has taught leadership and public speaking to audiences all over the country. He's the author of multiple books including Get Real Selling. Pistol has that rare ability to be both universally liked and 100% respected by all who know him. My brother AJ Hawk was an All-American linebacker at Ohio State, where he won a national championship. He played 11 years in the NFL, won a Super Bowl with the Green Bay Packers, and retired as the franchise's all-time leading tackler. Now you'll see him every weekday on ESPN as a co-host of the Pat McAfee Show Notes: Key Learnings Be a consciously competent leader. Pistol's framework: you have to understand the processes of the work you're asking people to do, not just the end result. First-line leaders have to know the work at a great level of detail.  One tactical way to get there: do after-action reviews on both wins and losses. Know why you win. Know why you lose. Describe both in detail. That's how you earn vivid clarity. Give people vivid clarity. Don't tell your team to "go get the ball carrier." Tell them precisely how to handle each situation. Great leaders are great because they give vivid clarity to the people they're leading on how to do the thing. Stack days. If I can't win by being brilliant, I can win by being able to endure. Just get up and do the thing day after day. Growing up, AJ and I had an unwritten rule: no matter what we did the night before, we were going to the first available lift. You don't have to go to bed early. But you're going to work no matter how you feel. When AJ knew he could do it. Freshman year at Ohio State. A tunnel screen play in camp. He read it perfectly, took off, and delivered a textbook hit on the receiver. That was the moment: "Football's football. These guys are all monsters. But I think I can find a way to make some plays." How to write a book: get up an extra hour early for 200 days in a row and never miss a day. Anybody can do it. You just have to be willing to make the decision, and then follow through, and then follow through again. My scout team Super Bowl. As a scout team QB at Ohio, I picked the Florida game to prepare like it was the real thing. I wore Rex Grossman's number and arm sleeve. Spatted my cleats. I rewrote the practice cards based on real Florida plays. We ended up being in a tight ball game against a national powerhouse. My teammates came back after the game and said practice that week was harder than the actual game. This is when I learned what is possible when prepared for the moment.  The Mike Nolan $10 bill story. When AJ was in college, the 49ers head coach Mike Nolan needed to tip a valet and asked if he had any cash. AJ gave him $10. Weeks later, a handwritten note showed up at AJ's college house with a $10 bill inside and a thank-you note from Mike Nolan. Follow-through. Attention to detail. Paying people back. AJ never forgot it. AJ's delusional confidence in Tahoe. AJ had an unlucky drive that left him 254 yards from the pin, in the first cut. Jack Wagner was still on the green in front of us. AJ pulled out a four iron. I told him to wait. He said, "I'm just gonna go, and hit it on the green." He flushed it. Landed on the green 25 feet from Jack. There's power in belief, speaking things into existence, and then doing them.  Irrational self-confidence isn't irrational. Pistol quoted Bill Simmons: "As long as you believe it's possible, it's possible." Regardless of what it is. My biggest risk: leaving corporate at the end of 2017. I had a VP of sales job, and I left it all to bet on this podcast. Miranda believed in it maybe even more than I did. That combination made it possible. Pistol's biggest risk: August 1st, 1999. He left LexisNexis after 14 years to go be a public speaker. Two years later, on August 1st, 2001, he came back. Both times on his birthday. His career jumped five notches on his return. Sometimes you have to leave to come back better. AJ's biggest risk: hiding a broken wrist during a Super Bowl run. AJ refused an X-ray or MRI so they couldn't shut him down. The trainer taped and casted it. He played the whole season, won the Super Bowl, and made the Pro Bowl. He had surgery to repair it days after the Super Bowl.  The best players are consistent. When I'd talk to AJ's teammates in Green Bay about him, they used the unsexy words: "Most consistent guy on the team. First guy in the weight room. Will be where he's supposed to be on every play." He did that for eleven years. Show up. Every single day. Pistol said it: "Anybody that's been great at something didn't get great on the first day, but they did the right types of things along the way."  Don't grade your kid's games. Grade the effort. "Did you play hard? That's all I care about." AJ said his family doesn't have good or bad games. There's only one question after the game: did you play hard or did you not?  Show them what "hard" actually looks like. Sometimes kids think they're playing as hard as they possibly can when they're not. AJ's brother-in-law Jack Johnson reminded him of this. You can't just say "play hard." You have to describe it. You have to show them. Otherwise they don't know what the standard is. Model it. Don't tell. Leadership is caught more than it's taught. My primary role as a dad and a husband is to be the model. If I have low standards, my kids will have low standards. If I show up every day, they'll learn what showing up looks like. Do all the work. Then trust your instincts. AJ's approach to football. Reinstall the defense from scratch every year. Take fresh notes. So when it's game time, you don't have to think. You just play. The Dinner Guest Draft: Every hundredth episode, we do a draft. This one: pick five living dinner guests.  AJ's table:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Charles Barkley
3. Arnold Schwarzenegger
4. Palmer Luckey
5. Denzel Washington

My table: (All dream guests for The Learning Leader Show)

1. Dave Chappelle
2. Dave Matthews
3. Mike Rowe
4. Doris Kearns Goodwin
5. Michael Lewis

Pistol's table: (All former guests of the show) 

1. Admiral William McRaven
2. Dan Patrick
3. Nikki Glaser
4. Stephen M.R. Covey
5. Oz Pearlman

Champagne Moments a Year From Now My dad: Celebrating his 71st birthday dinner with all of us. AJ: To keep being present with his kids while they're still young. To slow down and enjoy it. Me: A good year of college for the older girls in our family. Reflection Questions

• Where in your work are you giving people vivid clarity? Or are you handing them broad general directives and hoping they figure it out?
• What is your version of the Mike Nolan $10 bill story? What small act of follow-through could you do this week that someone will remember for years?
• Where are you being performative right now, doing something for the audience instead of doing it because you want to be great? What would change if you only did it when nobody was watching?

More Learning #600 - AJ, Pistol & Ryan Hawk - Setting the Standard #500 - AJ, Pistol, Ryan & Pat McAfee - Live Your Life as a Movie #400 - AJ, Pistol & Ryan Hawk - The Life Experiences That Shape Our Character Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Arena Invite  01:30 Meet Keith "Pistol" Hawk and AJ Hawk  03:34 What Everyone's Been Up To For the Past Two Years  05:09 What We Learned From Robert Saleh (head coach, Tennessee Titans) and Mike Macdonal (head coach of the defending Super Bowl Champion, Seattle Seahawks) About Tackling  08:50 Be a Consciously Competent Leader. Give People Vivid Clarity.  10:44 Inflection Point Stories: When AJ and Ryan Knew They Could Do It  16:33 How Pistol Spotted the Talent Early  21:32 Why Written Communication Is More Important Than You Think  25:21 The Power of Stacking Days  33:06 The Mike Nolan $10 Bill Story  35:24 Delusional Confidence: The Tahoe Golf Moment  42:51 Irrational Self-Confidence Isn't Irrational  43:15 The Biggest Risks Each of Us Ever Took  47:24 Playing Through a Broken Wrist to Win a Super Bowl  50:38 How to Raise Kids With High Standards  54:28 Regimented vs. Disciplined  59:30 AJ's Hack to Beat a Shellfish Allergy 01:06:00 The Dinner Guest Draft Begins  01:21:21 Draft Recap  01:23:43 The Champagne Question  01:26:33 EOPC  

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Jack Raines is a writer and investor. At 24, he quit his corporate finance job at UPS, bought a one-way ticket to Barcelona, and spent the next year traveling through 25 countries while writing a newsletter that grew to hundreds of thousands of readers. He went on to earn an MBA from Columbia, help build Sherwood News at Robinhood, and join the venture capital firm Slow Ventures, where he invests in creators. His first book, Young Money: A Field Guide to Finding Wealth and Purpose in Your Twenties, is out now. Key Learnings Jack's Grandma Ruth took him to Africa when he was 11. She was in her late 60s. She had the money. She said: "I can spend it on you now or leave it to you when I'm dead. This is better." Money has no value until you exchange it for something. We need to decide what we want that to be. Every year of your 20s is worth $10 million. (Nikita Bier) You'll never have this window of flexibility again. Say yes to interesting experiences in your 20s. Your income is going to climb exponentially anyway. Don't save $500 at the cost of a memory. Move to where the action is. Jack moved to New York for business school. Then San Francisco for a job. Then back to New York. High slope of learning. High slope of contact with good people. Network amplifies ability. It doesn't create it. A million times zero is still zero. A million times two is two million. The only real risk is not doing anything. Every opportunity in life comes through a person. The best networking tool is doing great work. How did Gracie Abrams open for Taylor Swift on the Eras Tour? She wrote great music. Taylor noticed. Taylor called. In your 20s, potential is valued at a premium. In your 30s and beyond, proof of work matters more. Experimenting when you are young speed-runs the learning curve. You develop the skill of taking shots. That skill compounds.  It's much harder to start being risk-on at 35 if you weren't risk-on at 25. Personal finance is simple. Spend less than you make. Build a six-month emergency fund. Take the 401(k) match. Contribute to your IRA. Don't gamble on individual stocks. Stay invested. Stay employed. Don't go into credit card debt. Don't get divorced. User error interrupts compounding more than anything else. Set up the boring foundation. Then stop touching it. Most retirees never touch the principal. (Nick Maggiulli) They stack money out of fear, then die with more than they started with. Daniel Kahneman on loss aversion: the pain of losing $100 is twice as strong as the joy of gaining $100. That's why people over-save. Your burn rate at 70 is way lower than at 45. No kids at home. No tuition. Less energy to do stuff. Plan accordingly. Bill Perkins' Die with Zero philosophy... A useful insight was in the first chapter: his best friend took a payday loan at 23 to backpack Europe for three months. Same career trajectory as Bill. Just way more fun at 24. People don't want to think about their mortality. So they focus on making the number go up. If you actually internalized that you're going to die, you'd be more intentional about your time and money. Jack's champagne moment a year from now: He sells a ton of copies of it. And it's still relevant. Reflection Questions

• Where are you spending your best years earning money you'll never actually enjoy? What would change if you accepted that your peak-energy window is closing?
• Where are you standing still because the risk of moving feels bigger than the risk of staying? What does the only real risk (not doing anything) look like in your life right now?
• What is the great work you could do that would make the right person notice you? 

More Learning #539: Jack Raines - Playing Infinite Games, Living Life Backwards & Building Your Platform #548: Nick Maggiulli - The Power of Compounding #373: Bill Perkins - How To Get All You Can From Your Money & Your Life Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now!  01:38 Meet Jack Raines  03:27 Grandma Ruth Took Him to Africa When He Was 11  08:04 Why Every Year of Your 20s Is Worth $10 Million  12:12 Quitting UPS at 24 for a One-Way Ticket to Barcelona  15:10 How to Increase Your Surface Area for Luck  20:00 Where You Live Is Who You Become  22:00 Why Memories Compound Faster Than Money  26:23 The Financial Stability Basics Nobody Wants to Hear  29:00 Get the Boring Stuff on Autopilot  31:15 Why Retirees Never Touch the Principal  34:02 The Bad Trade of Saving During Your Best Years  37:36 The Bill Perkins Die With Zero Debate  39:15 Experimentation, Agency, and the Only Real Risk  42:53 The Best Networking Tool in the World: Do Great Work  44:10 The Champagne Question: Making the Book Matter a Year From Now  45:53 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book - The Price of Becoming - www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Joanna Stern is an Emmy Award-winning technology journalist, chief technology analyst for NBC News, and founder of the independent media company, "New Things." She is best known for her 12-year tenure at The Wall Street Journal, and for authoring the New York Times bestseller I Am Not a Robot. Key Learnings  Joanna dedicated her book to her parents "who taught me to think for myself, and the AIs, robots, and machines that made me wonder if I really was." In an age when AI can do the thinking for us, the most valuable thing we can teach our kids is to think for themselves. Walt Mossberg invented tech journalism for humans. His first column: "Computers are too hard to use, and it's not your fault." Without Walt, we don't have a category where technology built for humans is reviewed by humans. AI won't replace the radiologist. It'll make them better. Joanna sat with her doctor while AI scanned her mammogram. The AI flagged three suspicious spots. Two the doctor had already dismissed as benign. But one was something the doctor hadn't caught. She marked it for follow-up. Then the doctor pointed to other cases where SHE had caught things the AI missed. It's not a replacement. It's a partnership. The same technology that finds cancer is the same technology that can autonomously send missiles. That's the great tension of our time. Every powerful technology has good and bad uses. AI colleagues are coming. Joanna has two employees and one AI agent. She predicts that within a year, she'll have full AI employees. Great management books haven't been written yet about how to lead a mixed team of humans and agents. Someone is going to write them. Concert ticket prices tell you everything about human connection right now. Every artist is selling out football stadiums. People are craving in-person interaction more than ever. Bot Girl Summer. Joanna tried to have an emotional relationship with a chatbot boyfriend named Evan for 48 hours. She didn't fall in love. But she noticed how easy it was to talk to something that only wanted to hear about her problems and told her she was great at everything. That's the danger. The AI therapist shut itself down when it realized there was a real therapist in the room. Joanna brought her AI therapist "Ash" into her actual therapy session. Halfway through, Ash said, "I'm sorry, I can't continue this conversation. It sounds like there are multiple people in the room." AI won't replace therapists. It'll help with the shortage and the stigma. Some people don't want to walk into a therapist's office. But they'll open their phones. That's a bridge to real help for people who wouldn't otherwise get it. Kara Swisher's career advice to Joanna: "Leave your fucking job." That was the shortest, cleanest advice Joanna got when deciding whether to leave the Wall Street Journal after 12 years. Joanna used AI as a co-founder for the biggest decision of her career. She uploaded 12 years of notes into ChatGPT and asked it to help her decide whether to leave the Journal. It didn't decide for her. But it structured the risk analysis, laid out the escape hatches, and helped her see the shape of the decision. The muscles atrophy if you don't use them. Writing is meant to be hard. Thinking is meant to be hard. If you outsource the hard work, you stop getting stronger at the hard work. Research is where you learn the most. If you have AI pull the memo for you and you get up and read it, you don't know what you're really talking about. You have to do the reps to know the material. AEI: Already Enough Intelligence. Sam Altman is obsessed with building superintelligence. Joanna proposes we already have enough intelligence to work with. Maybe the goal isn't to build smarter models. Maybe it's to figure out what to do with what we already have. The AI on-ramp for leaders: Take one document you make all the time (a memo, a PowerPoint, an email template). Upload it. Ask AI to make a template out of it. Next time you need it, you're twice as fast.  Push yourself to do the harder work. Joanna's analogy: marathon runners are insane. They just want to run. Nobody wants to do the harder work. But that's where the growth is. Joanna's champagne moment a year from now: milestones for her new company. She's already hit 100,000 YouTube subscribers three months after her first video. But she also just wants a nap. Reflection Questions

• Where in your work are you outsourcing the thinking to AI? Are the muscles you actually need atrophying because you're skipping the reps?
• If you accepted that you already have enough intelligence to work with, what would you actually build with what's in front of you right now?

More Learning #679: Kat Cole - The Four Mindsets Every Leader Needs #605: Seth Godin - The Power of Remarkable Ideas #697: Dan Smith & Ryan Hawk - The Price of Becoming Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now!  01:44 Meet Joanna Stern  02:31 Teach Your Kids to Think in the Age of AI  03:25 The Parents and Mentors Who Shaped Her Career  04:16 Lessons From Walt Mossberg  05:55 Why Joanna Spent a Year Living With AI  14:47 How AI Can Make You a Better Leader  17:30 Why People Crave Human Connection More Than Ever  21:00 Bot Girl Summer: Dating a Chatbot Named Evan  25:13 The AI Therapist Trial 29:51 Using ChatGPT for a Career Change 33:29 Don't Let Your Thinking Muscles Atrophy  40:20 Sam Altman on Superintelligence, and Joanna's Case for "AEI"  42:51 Joanna's Advice for College Students  45:29 How Joanna Actually Uses AI to Write  47:17 Practical AI for the Fortune 500 VP  50:17 The Champagne Question 52:43 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Buy my new book, The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Get The Price of Becoming: The Price of Becoming is available now wherever books are sold.   "Have a plan, work the plan, plan for the unexpected." From my old Miami football coach, Terry Hoeppner. It was posted in the locker room. He said it every day. I still think about it all the time. There is no hack. There is no one thing. At many keynote Q&As, someone asks me for a quick fix. The only answer is the power of compounding. Consistency, dependability, and reliability are the least sexy words of all time. And they're the whole game. Take your work seriously. Don't take yourself seriously. The best leaders go hard at the work but laugh at themselves. It's important to be able to laugh with your team. Optionality is overrated.  "I'm trying to beef up my obituary. I'm not going to dabble." - Ed Latimore (Ep. 648) Live like a hawk. Hawks have eyesight eight times better than humans. They glide and observe constantly. But once they see what they want, they commit with everything they have. Be a professional noticer. Then commit fully. Talk to your people before big decisions. My dad. Miranda. And the wide network of high-caliber people I've built over 700 podcast episodes. Be specific. Off the record. Long conversations. Then trust your gut. Take bits and pieces from the best. Then find your own voice. As a brand new sales rep at LexisNexis, Rex Caswell had me interview and sit with the ten best reps in the company. I took a piece from each, mashed it together with my own personality, and eventually found my own voice. I still use that formula today. Use social media to create in-person moments. Organize dinners, meetups, coffees. Get in the room with people. Concert ticket prices and The World Cup tell you everything you need to know about how much people are craving in-person connection right now. Don't outsource your thinking to AI. You can't walk into the weight room, look around, and expect to build muscle. You have to move the weights. Use AI as a tool. Don't let it do the thinking for you. Your job is to add value to other people's lives. Coach Hoeppner sat 19-year-old me down with the other quarterback and pointed at both of us: "He adds more value to our team than you do. He gives us a better chance to win. That's why he's going to play." It was brutal. It was a very lucky moment for me to experience that in my formative years. I fell into the AI trap. The Be a Pro section originally started as a LinkedIn post that was heavily influenced by Claude. It went well on Twitter too. People DM'd me praising it. It felt great. And it scared me. I was getting the rewards without doing the work. The good old days are right now. I try to work hard when my family is asleep or at school. Between those hours, I go as hard as I can. Outside those hours, I try not to work too much. I've talked with so many dads who are older now, and their kids are out of the house. They miss the time when they were with their kids so much. I try to think of that daily. Making positive dents in the world. Leave people, places, and things better than you found them.  That's how you make a positive dent, one person at a time. My philosophy on keynotes and writing: story, science, and practical application. Great storytelling to move people to the edge of their seat. Empirical evidence to make it true. Practical application to answer, "So what? Why should I care?" You have to have all 3. Our edge in coaching leadership teams: my coaches actively live what they teach. They didn't attend a seminar and get certified. They're still active coaches themselves, still leading teams in real time. That's what separates authentic teaching from performance. Push your edges. Find your Goldilocks zone. James Clear told me you don't get better at tennis by playing Roger Federer. He'll destroy you. But you also don't get better by playing a five-year-old. You need to be uncomfortable, but not so uncomfortable that you break. Shane Gillis walked off stage looking exhausted. Dan saw him live in Cincinnati. On stage, effortless. The second he stepped behind the curtain, his shoulders slumped like he was ready to fall asleep. That's what the great ones do. They make it look easy because of the price they paid to get there. My productive paranoia. Our team has to earn it every session. It creates a productive paranoia knowing that continuous improvement is necessary. The reward is bigger than the cost. It's the greatest gig in the world. I bet on myself and the team every single day because if we keep adding value, I like our chances. Reflection Questions

• Where are you dabbling right now? What would 100% commitment actually look like, and what's stopping you from making the call?
• My end-of-day prompts: What did I do today to add value to others' lives? What did I do today to push my edges?

Get The Price of Becoming: The Price of Becoming is available now at learningleader.com/becoming or on Amazon.  More Learning #529: James Clear - Becoming an Optimist & Building Better Habits  #648: Ed Latimore -  Discipline Over Feelings, Don't Dabble Your Way Through Life

#602: The Learning Leader Squad - Helping Teams Become Elite & People Become Excellent   Episode Chapters
00:00 A Special Launch Episode: The Price of Becoming  02:29 Have a Plan, Work the Plan, Plan for the Unexpected  05:15 There Is No Hack. Just the Power of Compounding.  08:04 Take Your Work Seriously. But Not Yourself 12:31 Optionality Is Overrated: Why You Should Stop Dabbling  16:13 How I Make Big Decisions  20:34 Using Social Media to Build Real In-Person Relationships  23:27 The Danger of Using AI to Write 34:16 How I Structure My Work Days 40:47 The One at a Time Moments That Signal a Positive Dent  42:04 Leave People, Places, and Things Better Than You Found Them  50:52 Story, Science, and Practical Application  55:14 What Makes The Learning Leader Team Different 57:39 Push Your Edges: The Goldilocks Zone  01:06:24 The Real Cost of Betting on Yourself  01:10:45 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book - The Price of Becoming - www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Ezekiel J. "Zeke" Emanuel, MD, PhD, is a prominent oncologist, bioethicist, and health policy expert. Currently Vice Provost for Global Initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania, he was instrumental in shaping the Affordable Care Act and served as the founding chair of the Department of Bioethics at the National Institutes of Health. Key Learnings Zeke's dad was called "Speedy." He was a Chicago pediatrician who worked 24-hour call, walked so fast the nurses had to run to keep up, and had a rule: the fourth child in any family was free. He recognized the financial strain on families and just wouldn't charge. Zeke's mom was the definition of the anti-helicopter parent. At the playground, she sat on the bench. At the beach, she dropped the boys off with a blanket and a snack. "You go play. Something goes wrong? Okay, that's how it goes." That's how three future powerhouse leaders learned to negotiate, create, and figure it out. The Emanuel brothers' group text is full of bragging. Zeke posted his 51.9 VO2 max score at 68 years old, asking, "Do I win in the family?" His kids replied that they don't even read the articles Zeke and Rahm forward anymore. Close doesn't mean uncompetitive. A dozen years ago, Zeke wrote his most famous article, "Why I Hope to Die at 75." He still stands by it. The point wasn't that he wants to die. The point is that after 75, he won't take medical treatments meant to prolong life.  By age 75, 30% of adults have Alzheimer's or cognitive impairment. By 80, it's 40%. Zeke doesn't want to be remembered as a doddering old man who can't recognize his own family. Living a long time is a means, not an end. It's not the goal of life. It's what allows you to be present, engaged, and useful for the years you have. Biohacking is a lie: It suggests you know better than millions of years of evolution and the entire medical profession. The body isn't about maxing. It's about balance. Too much immune response gives you autoimmunity. Too little makes you sick. The body finds health in the median. You're not going to be perfect over decades. Wellness isn't a four-minute figure skating routine graded on execution. It's a lifetime practice. So build habits you enjoy and can sustain without thinking about them. Zeke's six simple rules for a long and healthy life:

• Don't be a schmuck. Avoid activities riskier than driving. Smoking, vaping, base jumping, climbing Everest.
• Talk to people. The number one predictor of a long, happy life.
• Expand your mind. Travel. Talk to the chef. Learn something new.
• Eat your ice cream. Moderation over perfection. Fermented foods and fiber.
• Move. Aerobic, strength, and flexibility. All three.
• Sleep like a baby. You can't will it. But you can create the conditions.

The Harvard Adult Development Study followed people for 85 years. John F. Kennedy was in it. Ben Bradlee was in it. The finding: close friends and being married correlated with the healthiest, longest, happiest lives. Not exercise. Not diet. Relationships. Having no close friends is equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. That's how bad loneliness is for you. It's not just psychological. It's physical. Introverts get the same happiness boost from social interaction as extroverts. A University of Chicago study by Nicholas Epley found that introverts assume they won't enjoy talking to strangers on their commute. They were wrong. When they did it, they were just as happy as extroverts. Take the headphones off. Zeke has been telling people this since the iPod era. Random encounters increase your surface area for luck, learning, and connection. You never know who you're going to meet or what they might tell you. To be interesting, you have to be interested. Zeke asks to meet the chef at every great restaurant. He asks his Ethiopian Uber driver which tribe he's from. He talks to the person on the plane. It's virtuous. Good for you AND good for them. Zeke's hero is Ben Franklin. Franklin came back to America at 80 after negotiating the end of the Revolutionary War. The first thing he did was build a library for his curiosity and a dining room for his social dinners. That's the way to live. The wellness trifecta: hosting a dinner party with curious people. You're eating good food. You're getting together with people. Your mind is being stretched by great conversation. Three benefits from one activity. Zeke is anti-wellness-industrial-complex. Peptides from your corner store: disaster, unregulated, no idea what's in them. Testosterone replacement therapy without a real deficiency: bad idea, accelerates prostate cancer. Growth hormone for aging: promotes cancers. That's being a schmuck. Sleep is the one wellness practice you can't will yourself into. You can only build the conditions for it. Dark room. Cool temperature. No caffeine or alcohol eight hours before bed. Phone in another room. Read a book. Everything else is up to your body. Ice cream actually decreases your risk of type 2 diabetes. The fat content softens the glycemic response. Plus, you usually eat it with other people. Social eating matters. Zeke's champagne moment a year from now: finishing his next book on how to fix the American healthcare system, and turning 70. Reflection Questions

• Are you optimizing for length of life, or for the quality of years you actually get? 
• When was the last time you turned your headphones off, introduced yourself to a stranger, or asked to meet the chef? 
• Who are the friends you rely on for social interaction? Not casual acquaintances, but the ones who lift your health, longevity, and happiness. When did you last make plans with them?

More Learning #607 - Dr. Meg Meeker - Raising Resilient Kids (Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters) #690 - Austin Kleon - Why Activated Leaders Win #682 - Will Guidara - Adversity is a Terrible Thing to Waste

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com Book - The Price of Becoming -- www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Andy Stumpf is a retired Navy SEAL who spent 17 years on active duty, including assignments with one of the most elite special operations units in the U.S. military. He's a New York Times bestselling author. His newest book is Drownproof: Eight Life Lessons to Keep Your Head Above Water. Key Learnings "What you allow in your presence is your standard." It doesn't matter what your corporate ethos is. It doesn't matter what's tattooed on the wall behind you. If your actions don't align with your speech, it means nothing. Speech is debatable. Actions have impact. You can control almost nothing in your life, but you can control the boundaries you set and your willingness to maintain them. There's a difference between a SEAL and a team guy. A SEAL is there for the title and the individual journey. A team guy is there for the mission and the team. They wear the same uniform. From the outside, you can't tell them apart. Internally, everyone knows. Andy would rather have a group of team guys than a group of SEALs. Your ability to accomplish unbelievable things is 100% aligned with what group of people you bring into your organization. You'll get fooled in the interview process. People wear masks. That's just how it works. The reps come after. Set up consistent feedback. Bi-annual after-action reviews on performance and how they're showing up as a person. 80/20 the interview. Talk 20%. Make them talk 80%. The more they speak, the harder it is to keep the mask on. Let people go faster, not slower. It's way easier to solve this problem six months in than six years in, when they've already catastrophically impacted the culture. Drown-proofing is not an exercise in being drown-proof. It's an exercise in self-control. You bob up and down in a pool for an hour with your hands tied behind your back and your feet bound. If you panic, you sink. If you stay calm and control your breathing, you can do it indefinitely. The test occurs in the water, but it has almost nothing to do with the water itself. The world is chaotic. That doesn't mean you have to be. When everything around you is going sideways, walk yourself back. What can I actually control? My breathing. My self-talk. My priorities. My next move. The circle of influence vs. the circle of concern. Draw a line down the middle of a legal pad. On the left, write everything you're worried about, working on, occupied by. That column will be huge. On the right, write what you actually have direct control over. You'll only be able to write one thing: yourself. The most effective leadership tool is mentorship. Andy's mentor Dave Hall gave him "just the perfect amount of rope to hang myself, and then maybe he'd help me get it around my neck just a little bit." Dave would let him fall short, then crush him, then sit there and facilitate what he needed to fill the gap. A high standard is a finely sharpened blade. It can cut in both directions. Andy's mentor, Dave Hall, ultimately died by suicide. One reason Andy believes it happened is Dave couldn't hold himself to the same standard anymore, and it destroyed him. Have grace for yourself. Not every goal is worth your life. Focus on post-traumatic growth, not post-traumatic stress. Trauma doesn't have to destroy you. If you take the time and energy to work your way through it, it can turn you into a better version of yourself. Motivation can be outsourced. Discipline cannot. Motivation is like the tide. It comes in and out. Discipline is doing the things you need to do regardless of how you feel. Win the micro-battles, not the war, in one fell swoop. If you try to attack 10 bad habits overnight, you'll fail. Pick one for a week. Build momentum. Stack days. You win the war via the micro-battles. If you don't think of yourself as a leader, you'll never step into a leadership void. You'll tell yourself you're not the person. Not qualified. Not capable. Stop treating leadership like the DMV. You don't show up at the window and challenge the test with no preparation. You crawl, walk, run. You practice. Every interaction is either a micro-deposit or a micro-withdrawal of leadership capital. Sustained high performers master the basics. They make no attempt to be flashy. They make no attempt to gain 50 yards at a time. They'll do one yard 50 times in a row. If they see a real opportunity with managed risk, they'll go big. Otherwise, one yard. Over and over. Andy's champagne moment a year from now: being there with the people he loves. "Would you rather have all the things you think you want in life and enjoy them by yourself? Or be surrounded by people who truly love you for who you are? I'm taking the latter every time." Reflection Questions

• What are you allowing in your presence right now that contradicts the standard you say you hold? What's the cost of letting it continue?
• If you drew the line down the legal pad today, what would be in your concern column that shouldn't be? Where is your energy going to things you cannot control?

More Learning #234: Jocko Willink - Why Discipline Equals Freedom #363: Admiral William McRaven - The Bin Laden Raid, Saving Captain Phillips, & Leadership Lessons for Life #633: General Stanley McChrystal - On Standard: Choices That Define a Life Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now!  01:13 Meet Andy Stumpf  02:45 "What You Allow in Your Presence Is Your Standard"  04:30 What You Walk Past in Your Personal Life  05:59 Why He Wanted to Be a Navy SEAL at 11 Years Old  08:54 The Difference Between a SEAL and a Team Guy  11:38 How to Hire Team Guys, Not SEALs  16:34 The Story Behind Drownproof  18:23 What Drownproofing Actually Is  22:09 The Real Lesson Is Self-Control  25:55 Getting Shot in Iraq  30:38 Two Years of Rehab and the Return to Combat  33:58 Learning to Be a SEAL from Dave Hall  37:31 High Standards Are a Double-Edged Sword  40:05 Post-Traumatic Growth, Not Just Post-Traumatic Stress  42:45 Motivation Can Be Outsourced. Discipline Cannot.  47:20 Win Small Battles, Not the War Overnight  48:33 If You Don't See Yourself as a Leader, You Never Will  51:29 How to Practice Leadership Every Day  54:15 Getting Tricked Into Writing the Book  55:48 The Joe Rogan Blurb on the Front Cover  57:38 What the Best Leaders Have in Common  59:03 The Champagne Question: Being With the People You Love  01:03:53 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com Order my new book, "The Price of Becoming." www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Clark Lea is the head football coach at Vanderbilt University. He spent 14 years as an assistant coach, including three as defensive coordinator at Notre Dame, before returning to his alma mater in 2021 to inherit a program that had gone winless the year before. He's now the back-to-back SEC Coach of the Year and the architect of one of the great turnarounds in college football history. We recorded this conversation live at our 2026 Learning Leader Growth Summit in Nashville, surrounded by members of the Learning Leader Circle. Key Learnings Clark inherited a Vanderbilt program that went winless the year before. He says he probably screwed up 50% of his first year. The game is how quickly you can pivot. Losing is a powerful teacher. It cleanses and purifies you in ways you don't want but need. You can blame other people, sink into self-pity, or ask: "What am I meant to be learning right now?" Fast-forward 15 years. Look at this moment from a future place of breakthrough. What did you do now that allowed change to occur? "What do I wanna be proud of in the attempt?" Letting go of expected outcomes is what allows you to refine and simplify the way you see the world. Enter the building unguarded. The clearer you are about who you are and what you want, the more obvious it becomes who fits and who doesn't. Different ball, same problems. Clark spends time learning from the Milwaukee Brewers, the Baltimore Ravens, and others. Different industry, same human challenges. Sometimes the different ball is the gift, because you walk in without preconceptions. Knowledge is limiting. Questions illuminate. Once you know something, you stop pursuing it. The questions you ask are the first constraints you put on knowledge. Get past the touchy-feely. Ask: "Tell me what's screwed up here." Problems are always there. Your job is to be willing to look for them. Check the cabinets. Living in a 700-square-foot LA apartment with his wife, Clark would open the cabinets and find them swarming with roaches. The building was fumigated. Two months later, they were back. You can move the pots out and stop checking, or you can keep opening the cabinets. Leaders keep opening the cabinets. Tell people what TO do, not what NOT to do. Rick Neuheisel's lesson. Stop coaching against the bad thing. Manifest what you want to have happen. Hire bunker guys, not logo people. Logos are easy to change. Hire people who'll fight for you in the bunker when it's hard. The Michigan Reset. Before his first game as Notre Dame defensive coordinator, Clark told the team's mental performance coach: "We're gonna be down 50 to nothing at halftime. BK's gonna fire me on the spot. Jerome Bettis and Rocket Ismail will be screaming at me in the tunnel." She asked, "Why don't you trust your players? You think this is all about you?" Have more captains. Clark sits in a room each summer with around 25 players he identifies as leaders. If the people at the leadership table are good, the locker room will be good. The team votes. He draws the line wherever the vote naturally falls. When you try to go opposite of what you're trying to avoid, you eventually become it. Clark spent his first years at Vanderbilt rejecting the program's past. Going opposite. Then he realized it was just attaching his identity to the very thing he was trying to escape. Now he plots toward the vision instead. What got you here won't keep you here. As Clark has grown, the program has grown. Once he understood that, he could sit with a player and listen first, instead of looking to them for affirmation. The mission is winning. Clark scrapped a beautiful, eloquent, unclear mission statement and replaced it with three words. Now every dollar spent, every coach hired, and every player retained is measured against the same lens. Well-better-learned. Vanderbilt's after-action review for every game and every process. What did we do well? What do we need to do better? What did we learn? On Alabama week, Clark's team had the best practice he's ever been a part of. His job each week isn't to tell the team the challenges. It's to give them the plan to win. At halftime against the number one team in the country, he kneeled the team down and said, "It's on a platter for you. Go take it." They beat Alabama.  Stewarding 17-to-22-year-olds means helping them decouple their worth from outcomes. Clark cries in front of his team. His kids are around. His wife is there. His dad is at every practice. The players see a man. A human. A son. "An asshole in a Nike Tech Fit is still an asshole." In the NIL era, Clark fights to keep the locker room from splitting into a million-dollar club, a $500K club, a $30K club, and a $0 club. What you drive doesn't make a man. NIL value doesn't make a man. The grounding is the work. Reflection Questions

• What are you holding too tightly right now? Whose job are you doing because you don't trust them to do it themselves?
• Which cabinet have you stopped checking because you're tired of finding the same problem? 
• Fast-forward 15 years. Looking back at this moment from a place of breakthrough, what are you meant to be learning right now that you've been avoiding?

More Learning #681: Clark Lea - Belief is a Practice #281: George Raveling - 8 Decades of Wisdom, from Dr. MLK to Michael Jordan #637: Tom Ryan - Chosen Suffering, Becoming Elite & Life & Leadership  Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 00:47 Welcome Back, Clark Lea 02:38 Taking Over a Winless Vanderbilt Program 04:18 What Losing Taught Clark About Hiring 07:52 The Three Things That Light Clark on Fire About Coaching 10:27 Different Ball, Same Problems: Learning From the Milwaukee Brewers 13:14 Knowledge Is Limiting. Questions Illuminate. 18:09 The Introvert Who Had to Learn to Lead the Room 20:13 Brian Kelly and the Bet on Clark Lea 23:19 Why Clark Has More Team Captains Than Anyone in College Football 28:58 The Transfer Portal Pivot and the Culture Reset 33:58 The Mission Is Winning 34:51 "If We Don't Have $3 Million by December, We Won't Have a Program" 37:26 Why Candice Lee Took a Bet on Him 39:53 Inside Alabama Week: The Best Practice He's Ever Been a Part Of 44:03 The Bye Week Reset: Penalties, Third Down, and the Ball 46:11 Beating the No. 1 Team in the Country 49:50 Replacing Diego Pavia's Locker Room Leadership 51:39 Decoupling Worth and Identity From Outcomes 56:27 Hiring Bunker Guys, Not Logo People 01:01:47 "An Asshole in a Nike Tech Fit Is Still an Asshole" 01:04:47 EOPC

Order my new book - The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest - Tina Seelig has spent 27 years at Stanford teaching some of the world's most ambitious people how to see and seize opportunities. She's a neuroscientist, the executive director of Knight Hennessy Scholars, and the author of 18 books. Her TED Talk on luck has been viewed over 3.4 million times. Her newest book is called What I Wish I Knew About Luck: A Crash Course on Turning Aspirations into Achievements. Key Learnings Tina's dad died at 99 and a half. Three weeks before his first great-grandbaby was born. He was still driving, going to three dinner parties a week, and talking to Tina every day. His curiosity was his superpower. He gave 66 lectures in his retirement community over 20 years, on topics ranging from nuclear weapons to climate change. Train yourself to be a professional noticer. When Tina's dad walked his grandkids into a new room, he'd give them a minute, then say "Shut your eyes." How many doors? Windows? What color is the carpet? Assume there's a million dollars in every room. It's up to you to find it. Opportunities are ubiquitous. You just have to look. Take the headphones off. The most powerful things happen when you engage with strangers. Standing in line. On the plane. Walking through campus. Tina sat next to a stranger named Mark on a plane. He was a publisher. He said no to her book proposal. She kept the relationship going. Years later, his editor approved the same proposal she had given Mark. Within two weeks, she had a contract. Wear something that invites conversation. A logo. A backpack from a conference. A college baseball shirt. Give the world a hook to start with you. Fortune is what happens to you. Luck requires action. Most people confuse the two and miss the chance to claim their agency. "With my luck, it's gonna rain." Reframe it: "With OUR luck, it's gonna be a beautiful sunny day." The reframe changes what you see.  Luck seldom sails solo. Most luck comes through other people. Cultivating meaningful relationships is the most underrated lucky behavior. You don't get a job. You get the keys to the building. The visible work isn't what gets you ahead. The invisible work is. Between stimulus and response is a choice. (Viktor Frankl) Within the constraints of fortune, agency is everything. "Tina, you think like a scientist." One sentence from a professor changed Tina's life. Leaders, know the weight of your words. Twenty years later, Tina wrote that professor a thank-you note. Twenty years after that, his granddaughter wrote back. They had read part of Tina's letter at his funeral. When a student made a bad decision, Tina's first instinct was to punish. She paused. Said, "Help me understand what happened." The whole community learned what empathy and humility look like in leadership. Unresolved conflict sucks the energy out of your day. Resolve it. You become taller, lighter, more open to lucky things. Oliver Greenwald sent Tina a list of 10 ways he could help her with her book. Nothing on the list was exactly what she wanted. She hired him anyway, because of the initiative. Build the sail to catch the wind.

• Build the ship. Your internal work. Values. Story. Goals.
• Recruit the crew. The people in your world.
• Hoist the sail. What you do every single day.

Your core values are the keel of your ship. Without them, the first strong wind capsizes you. Keep a failure resume. Document what didn't work and what you'll do differently. Don't perseverate. Move on. "It's all good in the end. If it's not good, it's not the end." We're always in the middle of the story. Tina sends thank-you notes every single day. Five or ten minutes. Three or four sentences. Closes the loop. Builds the relationship. Don't end the dinner without making the next date. Most people drop the ball. Get it on the calendar before you leave. The instant you think something positive about someone, tell them. Be specific. Text. Email. Call. The instant. Tina's champagne moment: her newborn granddaughter at one year old. She just learned to turn over and looks so proud of herself. Reflection Questions

• What's on your failure resume right now that you haven't yet extracted the lesson from? Are you perseverating, or moving on?
• Whose thank-you note are you going to send today? Specific, genuine, unprompted. 
• Where in your life are you waiting for fortune and calling it bad luck? What is the action you've been avoiding because it requires you to put yourself out there?

More Learning #679: Kat Cole: The Four Mindsets Every Leader Needs #669: Oz "The Mentalist" Pearlman: Overcoming Rejection, Getting the Reps, and Always Follow Up  #663: Priya Parker: The Art of Gathering: How We Meet & Why It Matters Episode Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now!  01:09 Meet Tina Seelig  02:39 Tina's Dad: A Life of Curiosity at 99 and a Half  05:14 Becoming a Professional Noticer  06:54 The Stranger on the Plane Who Became Her Publisher  11:03 Wear Something That Invites a Conversation  14:11 Fortune vs. Luck: The Difference Most People Miss  16:08 The "With Our Luck" Reframe  21:09 Take the Earbuds Off and Get Out the Door  23:21 You Don't Get a Job, You Get the Keys to the Building  27:58 The Sentence That Changed Tina's Life  28:49 The Thank-You Note Read at a Funeral  31:52 The Student Who Made a Bad Decision  34:03 Oliver Greenwald and the List of Ten Ways to Help  37:04 The Sail Metaphor: How to Catch the Winds of Luck  39:41 What to Tell the Cynic Who Says "I'm Unlucky"  43:01 Core Values: The Keel of Your Ship  45:05 Why You Should Keep a Failure Resume  47:15 Send a Thank-You Note Every Single Day  52:06 The Champagne Question: Her Granddaughter at One  53:36 EOPC

Read my new book, "The Price of Becoming." www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Scott Harrison is the founder and CEO of charity: water, a non-profit that has raised over a billion dollars and funded tens of thousands of water projects to bring safe drinking water to millions. He previously spent a decade as a New York City nightclub promoter before a dramatic career shift led him into humanitarian work. Key Learnings Scott started a charity: water with $20 from a birthday party. Then $15,000... Twenty years later: over a billion dollars raised, 21 million people served. He says it should be 10 to 100 times more. The cure for water already exists. We're looking for water on Mars while 700 million people drink dirty water on Earth. We solved this hundreds of years ago. We just haven't implemented it. 25% of the money sitting in American donor-advised funds would give every human on Earth clean water. That's parked philanthropic capital. Already tax-benefited. Just waiting. The goal is always 10X what you're doing. If we raised a million last year, we want ten this year. If we raise $100 million, we should raise a billion. The opportunity is always orders of magnitude larger than the moment. Show, don't bullet. Scott shows 210 photos in a 45-minute keynote. No PowerPoint. Single images. A story unfolds frame by frame. Be early to the technology. First charity on Instagram. First to hit a million Twitter followers. First to use VR. The question is always the same: how does this new thing further the mission? The 100% model: solve for the cynic.  Public donations go to one bank account that funds only water projects. Overhead is raised separately from entrepreneurs and business leaders. Then track every donation to a specific village. Don't be mid. Scott's 11-year-old daughter says nobody wants to be mid. Excellence is a core value. There's a lot of mid out there. Design everything. The fact cover sheet. The PowerPoint. The website. The package. "We're always dating." If the message comes in an ugly package, you're at a disadvantage before you start. Treat the donor like a Michelin three-star guest. If a restaurant can think that carefully about a meal, you can think that carefully about a donor who can save a million lives. The Goldman Sachs partner who changed Scott's paradigm. Before making an eight-figure ask, Scott asked a partner: "How does it feel when people ask for a lot more than you expected?" The expected answer was irritated, offended, put off. The actual answer: "I feel flattered that they think I would be that generous." People are generous. The well is there. You just have to drill deep enough. Scott has spent 20 years asking for too little. That might be his next obsession. People give to people, not causes. A dynamic leader who transfers their enthusiasm gets the donation. The cause doesn't. Most of the donations Scott and his wife give are to people, not topics they were already passionate about. Talk 10% of the time. When Scott meets a donor for the first time, he wants to know their whole life story. Their marriage. Their kids. What they wanted to be when they grew up. Be genuinely curious or don't bother. Hire for integrity, humility, curiosity, and energy... 16,000 applicants for 36 roles last year. Energy matters most. Someone who can get you fired up about pickleball, Patagonia, or a new running shoe is exactly who you want on the executive team. The dinner test for hiring: Can you imagine having this person at your home for two hours at dinner? And wanting to keep them for another hour? Get the whole life story. Scott wants the arc from the beginning to the present in an interview. If someone can't tell their own story coherently, they probably don't know themselves yet. The 11-year-old with the piggy bank. He told his parents he was going to fund a whole village. They told him to set a realistic goal. He went knocking on doors. He came back with $10,000. Scott's experience lab in Nashville. A 60-minute immersive tour. A 100-degree room with a treadmill where you carry a 40-pound water vessel. Microscopes that show you parasites. A VR film that ends in celebration. The "give shop," not the gift shop. 53% of visitors donate. 10,000 visitors. $3.9 million raised in year one. Scott's champagne moment: a single billionaire who picks water. The water sector doesn't have one. Republicans and Democrats agree on it. Atheists and people of faith agree on it. Everyone has to drink. Reflection Questions

• What is the 10X version of your current goal? Where are you asking for too little because the smaller ask felt safer?
• Who in your work or life is the Michelin three-star guest, the customer, donor, or partner who deserves your most thoughtful experience design? 
• When was the last time you went 10% talking, 90% genuinely curious about someone else's story? 

More Learning:  #290: Scott Harrison – Redemption, Compassion, & The Transformative Power Within Us #680: Scott Galloway - Don't Follow Your Passion, Follow Your Talent #682: Will Guidara - Adversity is a Terrible Thing to Waste

Audio Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:18 Welcome Back, Scott Harrison 02:56 From a $20 Bill to Over $1 Billion Raised 04:59 Why the Goal Should Always Be 10X (or 100X) 07:54 Storytelling: How to Get People to Care About a Problem They Don't Feel 10:30 Being Early to Instagram, Twitter, and VR 16:10 Radical Transparency: The Bank Account That Built Trust 19:51 The Beauty of a Healthy Obsession 21:22 Drilling Deep for the Artesian Wells of Generosity 25:04 What It Feels Like in the Room When Generosity Breaks Through 27:01 "Nobody Wants to Be Mid." 30:56 Design Everything: We're Always Dating 32:13 Treat Your Donor Like a Michelin Three-Star Guest 35:39 Selling With Integrity: Talk 10%, Listen 90% 39:15 16,000 Applicants for 36 Jobs: What Scott Looks For 43:12 The Power of Vulnerability in Hiring 45:39 Inside the Nashville Experience Lab 50:34 The Champagne Question: A Billion-Dollar Vision 52:10 The 11-Year-Old Who Raised $10,000 Door-to-Door 54:25 EOPC  

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book - The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Ron Friedman is a psychologist and researcher who has spent his career studying what separates great teams from average ones. His research, which has surveyed thousands of professionals across dozens of industries, became the second most-read article in Harvard Business Review history. He is the author of three books, including his latest, Superteams: The Science and Secrets of High-Performing Teams. This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Key Learnings Ron's dad threw himself into impossible challenges and taught his family the dignity of hard work. A physician in Israel, he didn't want his son in the army, so he picked up the phone and started dialing hospitals in New York City until he landed a job at NYU. He pulled his family out of a country he knew, didn't speak the language fluently, and succeeded anyway. Ron dedicated Super Teams to him. He recently passed away. Only 8% of teams qualify as super teams. Ron's team polled thousands of workers and asked two questions: How effective is your team at meeting its goals? And how does it compare to others in your industry? Super teams hit the perfect score. The only office amenity that statistically drives performance: quiet space for focused work. Not the gym. Not the ping-pong table. Most offices are an attentional war zone. That's why people prefer working from home. How a team works matters more than where a team works. Remote, hybrid, in-office. The data shows none of those predict performance. Intention does. Don't make meetings the default. Make them the last resort. Super teams are 50% better at avoiding unnecessary meetings and 54% less likely to schedule recurring ones. Recurring meetings are insidious. Once they're on the calendar, removing one feels like breaking up with someone. So they just live there forever. Ron's rule: no decision, no meeting. Have a question? Pick up the phone. Have an update? Record a video or send an email. Don't pull people away from their work. The average worker loses 18 hours a week to meetings. And another 11 hours to messages. That's three-quarters of the week gone before they've achieved a single task. Meeting-free days cut stress in half and increase productivity by 71%. People go home feeling satisfied because they were able to actually do the work. Three pillars of super teams:

• They get more done by managing time, energy, and attention.
• They don't just collaborate. They actively make each other better.
• They're never satisfied. They're constantly building skills and improving.

Recovery isn't passive. Scrolling Instagram or binging Netflix helps you wind down, but it doesn't restore your energy. Mastery experiences do. Learn a new song. Try pickleball. Cook a new recipe. When leaders recover, their teams perform better. A well-rested leader shows up in a positive mood. That mood lifts the team. Investing in your own recovery isn't selfish. It moves your team forward. The best leaders support their people's side hustles. Not because they assign them, but because their people feel they have permission to grow outside the job. That's a signal you care about the person, not just the output. Three factors predict trust in a leader: competence, caring, consistency. Any one of them breaks down and trust breaks down. "How was your weekend?" is lame. Be specific. Ask about the kid's soccer game by name. Specificity proves you actually thought about the person. People need to be appreciated for who they are, not just what they do. That's how they feel cared for. The top three characteristics of toxic teammates: unreliable, bad attitude, and arrogant. The top three characteristics of the best teammates: knowledgeable, dependable, and a good communicator. Notice what's not on the list. Funny. Good listener. Caring. Those are nice-to-haves. They don't move the team forward. The best teammates make excellence the norm. On super teams, 94% say their teammates motivate them to do their best work. On super teams, 82% say they feel worse about letting down their teammates than their manager. When people know their teammates are counting on them, they work harder. Constant togetherness is not collaboration. The Succession writers' room cycled between solo writing and group critique. Real collaboration protects focus time first. Brainwriting beats brainstorming. Have people generate ideas alone first, then bring them to the room. You get higher quantity and higher quality ideas. 97% of feedback fails to lift performance. Over a third actively makes it worse. What does the 3% do differently? Focus on one thing at a time. Future-oriented, not past-oriented. Top performers want to know what they did wrong. Confidence allows them to absorb criticism and correct it. Most people aren't there. Gauge the feedback to the person. Great football coaches give feedback differently to the quarterback than the lineman. Know your people. Adjust your approach. Comedians get better at the Comedy Cellar because of what happens next door. Seinfeld, Chappelle, and Schumer gather at the Lemon Tree Cafe after sets to critique each other. Ryan calls it the "see it, say it" mentality, an ethos his teammate Geron Stokes brings every day. Great compliment, say it. Falling short of the standard, say it. The best teammates care enough to tell you how you can improve. Ron's champagne moment a year from now: his 19-year-old daughter landing a finance internship she earned on her own. Reflection Questions

• What's your recurring meeting that should be a breakup conversation?
• When was the last time you asked a teammate something specific about their life, by name? Or are you defaulting to "how was your weekend?"
• What's your version of the Comedy Cellar's Lemon Tree Cafe? Who do you go to for the candid feedback that makes you better?

More Learning #422: Ron Friedman - How to Reverse Engineer Excellence #535: Geron Stokes - Maximizing People #647: Tim Ferriss - Effectiveness Over Efficiency

Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:09 Meet Ron Friedman 02:41 Ron's Dad and the Dignity of Hard Work 03:47 Two Workplaces, Two Cultures, One Lesson 06:01 The Super Teams Methodology 07:13 The Only Office Amenity That Drives Performance 08:50 How a Team Works Matters More Than Where 13:06 The Three Pillars of Super Teams 16:11 Meeting Guidelines That Actually Work 18:42 The Power of Meeting-Free Days 22:23 Why Guidelines Beat Rules 23:40 Side Hustles, Recovery, and the Goldman Sachs CEO Who DJs 28:53 The Three Factors of Trust: Competence, Caring, Consistency 30:13 Why "How Was Your Weekend?" Is Lame 31:02 Get Specific or Don't Bother 31:22 The Manager Who Asked About Miranda by Name 32:08 The Spreadsheet for Remembering People 33:09 What Makes a Toxic Teammate 35:05 Chevy Chase and the Cost of Burning Bridges 35:52 The Best vs. Worst Teammate Traits 37:08 How Tom Brady Lifted an Entire Organization 38:06 Why Super Teams Hold Each Other Accountable 39:39 Inside the Succession Writers' Room 40:46 Brainwriting Beats Brainstorming 41:41 The Candid Feedback Culture That Drives Improvement 43:06 Painting in Red: The Power

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book -- The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Austin Kleon is the NYT bestselling author of Steal Like an Artist, Show Your Work, and Keep Going. He's a writer who draws, a former librarian, and one of the most original thinkers on creativity working today. His new book is Don't Call It Art: 10 Ways to Create Like a Kid Again. This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Key Learnings   Stay light. Bill Murray told ballplayers that if you stay light, loose, and relaxed, you can play at the highest level. Same with acting, writing, anything. Austin keeps a photo of Bill in his studio as a reminder. Play is the work. A lot of Austin's best work requires a sense of play. It's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. Go to the analog desk first. Austin has a digital desk and an analog desk. Nothing electronic is allowed at the analog desk. He starts there with nothing and sees what comes. Most people never give themselves the time, space, and materials to make something of what's swirling inside them.  People want to watch someone who is activated. "People will pay every night to show up and see somebody believe in themselves." (Kim Gordon, Sonic Youth) The market for something to believe in is infinite. (Hugh MacLeod) The world is full of people just doing their thing. They're hungry to see someone on fire for something. The writer's job: take what everyone is thinking and put it into words. "You gave me the words" is the highest compliment a reader can give. Effortless is earned. People say the Friday newsletter looks easy. Austin's reply: Do it every Friday for 13 years, then call me. A place to put things makes you notice more. Thoreau took morning walks knowing he'd write later, so he paid closer attention. Carry a camera, and you start seeing shots everywhere. Live for the living, not for the writing. There's a tension between living your life and documenting it. Don't lose yourself to the feed. Your attention is the most valuable thing you have. Everyone wants to take it. The real challenge of modern life is making sure you're the one who decides where it goes. The best teachers are perpetual students. You realize what you know and don't know only when you try to teach it. Toggle between knowing and not knowing. The moment you think you know what you're doing, the work gets stale. You start running on routine instead of need. To be an amateur is to be a lover. The French root means "lover of." An amateur does it out of love, not material reward. Every great CEO should be put in a room with a four-year-old. They'd both learn something. Kids knock the pompous certainty right out of you. "I don't know. How do you think we should figure it out?" Austin's kids taught him it's less important to know everything than to know how to find out. The leader isn't the one who speaks while everyone listens. The leader listens, asks questions, stays curious, and wonders how everyone is doing. Look for who's having fun, not who's successful. Fun is underrated. Serious people have a serious time. Do it with lightness and it's contagious. "A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play." (Lawrence Pearsall Jacks) He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he's doing and leaves others to decide whether he's working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both. Ask "What does the universe want to show me today?" A useful fiction. Tell yourself the world is trying to send you messages and suddenly you see a hundred of them. Have the toy before you know what you'll do with it. Austin buys typewriters, then asks what to make. Get the bicycle first. In six months you'll know what kind you actually want. Steal an idea someone only did once and turn it into a whole thing. Austin saw a single typewriter interview, made it a series, and has done more than 20. Put the human hand in the work. Austin decided 20 years ago to make it obvious a human made his stuff. In the age of AI, it stands out more than ever. People want the imperfection. Writing is thinking. People think you gather your ideas then write them down. The act of writing is the act of figuring out what you actually think. That's the hard part. Differentiate yourself by reading a book outside your field. Swim a little further out than everyone else and you find new water. Focus on what you can control. A writer controls only what's between the covers. Did you do a good job? Were you clear? Were you helpful? The rest isn't up to you. Austin's champagne moment a year from now: his kids flourishing. The older he gets, the less the books mean and the more his family does. Reflection Questions

• Where is your analog desk? Do you have a space with no screens where you go to make something of what's swirling inside you?
• Are you activated? When people watch you work, do they see someone on fire for it, or someone just going through the motions?
• What's one idea from outside your field you could steal this week? Where could you swim a little further out and find new water?

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#676: Jesse Cole - Built for the Fans, Obsession & Excellence

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#241: Austin Kleon - How to Steal Like an Artist   Podcast Chapters   00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now!  01:33 Meet Austin Kleon  02:53 The Bill Murray Photo: Stay Light  05:42 The Analog Desk: Where the Real Work Starts  08:51 People Want to Watch Someone Activated  15:22 Why "It Looks Easy" Is the Whole Point  16:28 The Newsletter as a Forcing Function to Notice  20:46 Who Owns Your Attention?  24:39 How Austin's Kids Became His Teachers  29:06 Why the Best Creators Stay Amateurs  31:33 Curiosity Is the Real Leadership Skill  34:09 What Does the Universe Want to Show Me Today?  35:02 Look for Who's Having Fun, Not Who's Successful  38:30 Do You Love to Write, or Love to Have Written?  41:00 The Typewriter Interviews: Stealing an Idea Done Once  47:18 The Interplay of Analog and Digital  49:02 AI and Why the Human Hand Wins  51:23 The Champagne Question: Family Flourishing  55:47 Walk-Ins Welcome  58:06 EOPC

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Read my NEW BOOK -- The Price of Becoming -  www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Eric Ries is the author of The Lean Startup, one of the most influential business books of the past 25 years, and the founder of the Long-Term Stock Exchange, the first new U.S. exchange to both list and trade multiple stocks since NASDAQ launched 50 years ago. His new book is Incorruptible. Key Learnings The more successful a company becomes, the more valuable it is as a target. Companies are worth stealing and taking over. Most founders are naive about this and don't understand what's coming for them. They've been following the so-called best practices about how companies should be built, structured, and governed. Most of those best practices are value-destroying. Sol Price was a lawyer before he became an entrepreneur. He believed a lawyer had a fiduciary duty to put the client's interests before his own. So when he became a retailer, he asked: "Who's my client?" The customer. He treated the customer as the person he would rather die than betray. When competitors sold a product for less, he'd put up signs in his own store: "Don't buy this from me. You can get it cheaper somewhere else." He capped his margins at 14 percent. He paid above-market wages. It is so much easier to destroy than to create. One day, Sol came into work and couldn't get into his office because the locks had been changed. Investors had pushed him out and forced Fedmart to practice retail best practices. Within seven years, they bankrupted the company. We've built an economy that rewards people for cost-cutting without holding them accountable for the consequences to trustworthiness, brand, or culture. The origin story of Costco: Sol took two weeks off, then leased the office upstairs from Fedmart and started Price Club. One of the young guys who left with him, Jim Sinegal, had worked his way up from stock boy. Jim eventually started his own company using the Sol ethos. A few years later, their companies merged to form what we now call Costco. Wall Street routinely calls Costco the exception to every rule. Wall Street analysts say things like: "At Costco, they take money that rightfully belongs to shareholders and instead invest it in the customer experience." As if that's a criticism. Costco endures because it's protected by a governance fortress. A series of worst practices that resist outside pressure structurally. The $1.50 hot dog has been the same price since 1986. A McDonald's Big Mac was $1.60 in 1986. Today that same Big Mac in California is over $7. Costco sells more hot dogs than every Major League Baseball stadium in America combined. If they raised the combo to $7, it would be a billion dollars of extra net income. They could do it. They choose not to. "If you raise the price of the effing hot dog, I will kill you. So figure it out." Jim Sinegal said it to his COO in 2008 when costs were rising. Figure it out. Costco vertically integrated the hot dog supply chain. They own hot dog production plants in multiple cities. They worked deals with soda vendors. They did all that extra work for the privilege of not making more money on the hot dog. Harder is easier. "When you take the hard road, when you make a principled commitment, you get these almost unbelievable values. Because you're generating the most underrated and most valuable asset in all of business: trustworthiness." "Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life." Jerzy Gregorek, Olympic weightlifter. "Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder. Nobody wanna lift these heavy ass weights." Ronnie Coleman, eight-time Mr. Olympia. Everyone wants the outcome. Nobody wants to do the actual thing. Culture and mission can be cultivated, not commanded. Most leaders get this wrong. They say "I'm in charge of my team." But can you command your team to have integrity? Can you command it to have a particular culture? You have to make consistent, responsible choices, just like cultivating health in your body. Get reps. Eric gave practice talks at a Hobee's restaurant at 7 AM to six people just to get the reps. Caring and trying to do a good job is so unbelievably rare. That alone is a competitive advantage. Feedback tells you something about the person giving it, not about yourself. If someone reads Eric's manuscript and says, "This book sucks," he hasn't learned anything about the book. He's learned this person doesn't like this kind of book. When he stopped arguing with negative customer reviews and started studying who they came from, he noticed patterns. People 16 and younger loved the product. People 16 and older hated it. He learned who his product was for. Separate qualitative from quantitative feedback. Qualitative is for hypothesis generation. Quantitative is for hypothesis validation. When test readers told him a chapter wasn't working, that was qualitative. When the platform data showed nobody was getting past that chapter, that was quantitative. You need both to know what to fix. It is always too early until it's too late. Eric tells the story of a multibillion-dollar founder he warned before his IPO. The founder talked to his bankers, lawyers, and CFO. They told him Eric was a downer. The founder went public anyway with conventional governance. Five months later, his stock dropped 90 percent, and he was ousted. The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second-best time is today. Eric's checklist for building an incorruptible company:

• Encode your mission into the corporate charter. Most founders have never read their charter. If your mission statement says one thing but your legal charter says another, you're lying. The easiest fix: file a public benefit corp filing (PBC). Two pages. 44 states. Your lawyer can do it tomorrow.
• Identify your fiduciary commitments. Who would you rather die than betray? Is it your customers? Your employees? Product quality? You decide. If your answer is nobody, you're a sociopath. The whole book is for the people who actually want to accomplish something.
• Align your employees to that mission. Make sure everybody on the team is committed to the same fiduciary priority.
• Create a director's oath. Like the Hippocratic Oath for doctors, but for your board. They must pledge to commit to the company's mission. Board betrayal and investor pressure are leading causes of death of companies in the modern world.
• Make the directors accountable to somebody. Power without accountability is corrosive to the human spirit. Novo Nordisk is governed by a nonprofit foundation. Patagonia is governed by a perpetual purpose trust. John Lewis Partnership in the UK is governed by an employee ownership trust. IKEA, Vanguard, and REI all have these structures. The data shows these companies are dramatically more stable and higher performing than conventional structures.

You are not stuck in traffic. You are traffic. People love to blame the system. But you're not just a passenger. You're part of what creates the system. Where you work. What you buy. What you give your attention to. Every one of those choices is fueling somebody's company, somebody's algorithm, somebody's bonus. The richest people in the world spend billions on PR because they know your individual choices matter. Use that power. Eric's champagne moment a year from now: a grassroots movement around Incorruptible. This book won't get wall-to-wall media coverage. It's antagonistic to people in power. So Eric hopes readers will hand it to their founders, their bosses, their friends. If consumers and employees start demanding, "I want to work in an incorruptible company," that's the toast. Reflection Questions

• What is your equivalent of Costco's hot dog? The one commitment you'd defend even when it's financially painful, even when the easy move would be to abandon it?
• Have you ever read your corporate charter, or the foundational document of your team or department? Does what's actually written match what you say you stand for?
• Where in your work or life would the harder short-term path build something more durable in the long run? Are you willing to lift the heavy weights?

More Learning #258: Jesse Itzler: Creating Your Life Resume & Living Outside the Box #529: James Clear: Setting Up Your Future Self & Becoming an Optimist #565: Noah Kahan: The Art of Asking For What You Want Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now!  01:03 Meet Eric Ries  02:55 Is It Possible to Build an Incorruptible Company?  04:04 Why Culture Alone Won't Save You  05:13 Sol Price, Fedmart, and the Locks That Got Changed  07:56 Why Wall Street Calls Costco the Exception  09:11 The $1.50 Hot Dog Story  13:59 Harder Is Easier: The Principle Behind It All  16:48 Why Governance Is Just Soul Craft  19:50 Building the First New Stock Exchange Since Nasdaq  22:33 Eric's Communication Style: Reps, Not Talent  30:52 The Opportunity Hiding in Broken Markets  31:59 How to Know Which Feedback to Listen To  35:39 Qualitative vs. Quantitative: Why You Need Both  37:23 The Whole Foods Cautionary Tale  40:25 The Founder's Checklist for Building Something Durable  43:44 Encode Your Mission Into the Corporate Charter  47:35 You Are Not Stuck in Traffic. You Are the Traffic.  52:37 The Champagne Question: A Grassroots Movement  55:27 James Clear, Author's Equity, and the Future of Publishin

Go to www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming for my new book, The Price of Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Dr. Henry Cloud is a clinical psychologist, leadership consultant, and New York Times bestselling author whose books have sold nearly 20 million copies worldwide. His titles include Boundaries, Integrity, Necessary Endings, and Trust. For three decades, he has worked with leaders, helping them close the gap between where they are and where they want to be. His newest book is Your Desired Future: The Five Essential Steps That Take You Where You Want to Go. Key Learnings Henry's five-step model for getting from here to there:

• Vision (clear and compelling)
• Talent (engaging the right people around you)
• Strategy and plan (how you'll win)
• Measurement and accountability (how you'll know)
• Fix and adapt (course-correcting in real time)

At the age of 16, Henry's daughter asked, "Dad, how do people become singer-songwriters?" Henry went out to the garage and brought in his whiteboard. Lucy rolled her eyes. He gave her the five-step model. A couple years later, she published a song called "Crash and Learn" that got bought by CBS, the CW Network, and featured on Spotify and Apple Music. We tend to create departments and businesses in our own image. Of the five components, we're going to be good at two, maybe three. But the others still have to happen. That's where most leaders fail. Only humans can picture a desired future state. Finley is Henry's Doberman. When the FedEx guy comes to the door, she runs to it, and barks every time. Henry has never seen her stop and ask herself: "I wonder if that barking will help me get to where I want to be on Thursday." Most leaders are operating like Finley. Working hard. Doing what they've always done. Never stopping to ask if any of it is getting them where they want to be. You need an observing ego. The worst thing you can do is hit the accelerator harder when you're going down the wrong road and you don't even know where you're going. Tony Blair, while Prime Minister, spent half a day a week sitting by himself next to a pond in reflection. Warren Buffett spends an hour and a half a day at his desk staring out the window.  A revenue number is not a vision. The single worst vision statement Henry ever heard: "We want to be a $50 million company." It provides no clarity of what the company is going to do.   A vision is a compelling picture of a future state that makes people want to sacrifice for it. If your vision wouldn't inspire anyone to get out of bed early, it's a metric, not a vision. Will Guidara created a "dream maker" role at Eleven Madison Park. Their job: listen for clues from guests, then create a personalized, unexpected, memorable experience the guest will never forget and tell everyone about. Trust Fuels Investment. People invest in leaders who feel like they understand them. You're taking your team into a war. They've got to have deep trust with you. The first thing a leader has to do is develop deep, deep trust and let their team know that they understand the pressure they're under. "A vision can die without a plan or without people." Alan Mulally's weekly 7:00 AM Thursday meeting at Ford. Every VP had to give every project a red, yellow, or green status. When Mulally first arrived, the company was hemorrhaging money. Everyone was holding up green. He said: "How can you be holding up green when here's the reality over here? I need some reality in here." When one VP finally held up red, Mulally moved him to sit next to him. The wrong view of accountability is looking back to spank somebody for what they didn't do. The right view of accountability is a tool to make sure we reach our destination. You get what you create or what you allow. Henry was working with a global CEO whose team had cultural problems. Henry kept asking, "Why is that?" After a few rounds, the CEO finally said, "I guess I am ridiculously in charge, aren't I?" If you are the one actually in charge, you are ridiculously in charge. Either you're creating it, or you're allowing it. Accountability answers two questions:

1. Did we do what we said we were going to do? If not, why not? Don't just tell people to "do better." Run a root cause analysis. Maybe they don't have the tools. Maybe you gave them competing goals. Maybe it's a leadership problem.
2. If we executed perfectly, did we get the result we expected? If yes, pour on the gas. If no, go back up the model and adjust your strategy.

Most leaders measure goals, not activities. Goals are lagging indicators. You can measure them after it's over. It's too late. Measure activities. Did we do this week what we said we were going to do? Micro drivers matter. Henry worked with a CEO who built multi-billions in valuation from a one-office company who was excellent with micro drivers. It's an atomic compression of the 80/20 rule. He knew the specific activities at each level of the business that actually moved the needle, and he made those objects of extreme awareness, focus, training, and deliberate practice. Peter Drucker said, "Nothing's worse than perfectly executing the wrong things." The number one thing the greatest leaders share: character. Not moral or ethical character. Your makeup as a person. How you're glued together. Integrity comes from the word that means wholeness. The great performers are drivers of tasks and relationships. The highest performers utilize coaching the most. Henry expected the disastrous leaders  to be the ones calling. It was the exact opposite. The ones crushing it are the ones who reach out. The struggling ones rarely do. The greatest leaders reverse the law of entropy: things get worse over time. But entropy only applies to a closed system. Open the system to a new energy source from the outside plus intelligence to organize it, and you can reverse it. That's what coaches, mentors, and advisors do. A leader is a closed system when the only voices they're ever listening to are the ones in their head. The greatest leaders embrace negative realities. They move toward problems. Not to nuke them, but to either resolve them or transform them into something better. Reflection Questions

• In how many areas of your life are you just barking at the door, working hard at activities without ever stopping to ask if any of it is getting you where you want to go?
• Is your current vision a metric, or a compelling picture of a future state that would make people want to sacrifice for it?
• Where in your life are you a closed system? Whose voices outside your head could open you up to new energy and intelligence?

More Learning #229 - Dr. Henry Cloud: Be So Good They Can't Ignore You #050 - Dr. Henry Cloud: Integrity is the Wake You Leave Behind #682 - Will Guidara: Adversity is a Terrible Thing to Waste Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming – Pre-Order Now! 01:13 Meet Dr. Henry Cloud 02:40 The Leadership GPS: Where Are You Going? 04:54 Step 2: Building the Right Team Around You 06:09 Steps 3-5: Strategy, Measurement, and Adapt 10:45 Why the Best Leaders Carve Out Time to Think 15:50 Why a Revenue Number Is Not a Vision 18:20 Crafting a Vision People Will Sacrifice For 23:12 The HVAC Story, Joe Girard, and the Dream Maker 27:38 Trust: The First Thing Every Leader Must Build 30:04 Alan Mulally's Red-Yellow-Green Meeting at Ford 32:38 How to Run Status Reviews That Actually Work 34:26 Accountability Should Be an Immune System, Not Autoimmune 38:18 Measure Activities, Not Goals 43:10 Micro Drivers: The Atomic 80/20 Rule 45:14 The Voices Outside Your Head: Peers and Accountability 47:47 The #1 Trait of Sustained Excellence: Character 50:39 The Greatest Leaders Reverse Entropy 56:17 EOPC

NEW BOOK -- The Price of Becoming Buy it -- https://www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by https://insightglobal.com/learningleader/. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Jim Collins is the author of some of the most influential business books ever written — Good to Great, Built to Last, and Great by Choice. His concepts have become part of the leadership vocabulary. Level 5 Leadership. The Flywheel. First Who, Then What. The Hedgehog Concept. He spent more than a decade at Stanford as a professor and has advised CEOs, four-star generals, and heads of state. His new book is What to Make of a Life: Cliffs, Fog, Fire, and the Self-Knowledge Imperative. It is the product of ten years of research and is the most personal thing he has ever written. We flew to Boulder, Colorado, to record this one in person with Jim. Key Learnings Jim's grandfather wrote his own death story. Jimmy Collins was a test pilot in the 1930s. He told Jim's grandmother, Dolores, that if he died, she should pull the last chapter from his desk and publish it. He died in a test crash. After the service, she pulled out the chapter. The title was "I'm Dead." The last chapter, written in first person, described the plane coming out of the sky, the screaming wings, the crash. The final words, by his own pen: "I am dead now." For seven decades, his grandmother never cried. When Jim asked her in her nineties to tell the story of his grandfather, she cried and said, "Thank you for that. I've never cried before." She'd been a single mom in the middle of the Depression. Of all the things Jim feels good about in his life, asking her to tell that story before she died at almost 100 years old is one he's most proud of. A cliff is an event that alters the trajectory of your life and forces you to reconstruct everything that comes after. Jim's first big cliff: he lost his father while his father was still alive. Jim's father took the family to San Francisco in the 1960s. They lived a few houses down from Haight Street. When a man was shot dead on their doorstep, Jim's mom moved them to Boulder. They lived in a cold basement with cots and a hot plate. They couldn't afford a Christmas tree, so Jim and his brother rolled a boulder into the basement and called it their Christmas rock. The Greyhound bus moment. In high school, Jim took a Thanksgiving turkey on a Greyhound bus down to New Mexico, where his father was living in an adobe hut with a dirt floor. He had this romantic vision: they'd cook the turkey, share Thanksgiving, bond as father and son. The whole weekend, his father had no interest in him. He spent it trying to convince Jim to convince his grandmother to give him money. On the bus ride home, looking out the window into the fog, Jim realized: there will never, ever be a father there. No male role models. No frameworks. No guidance. "I've got this one life. What do I do with it?" The inflection point in Jim's life is Joanne. They got engaged four days after their first date. He'd admired her from afar for years but never had the courage to ask her out. Once they were together, Jim began a conscious process: I need to become a person worthy of being married to her. He didn't know exactly what that meant or how to get there. But he knew that was the work. Forty-six years later, it's still a never-ending journey. What Joanne does brilliantly: she sees what needs attention. Jim is encoded to hear it. Someone once asked Joanne what she thought Jim's greatest strength was. She said: "Jim takes critical feedback better than any person I've ever met." Joanne sees what needs attention. Jim hears it. Then they adapt and adjust. That's the inner flywheel of their marriage. Circle the wagons together. Guns pointing out, never at each other. When life gets really difficult, whether it's disease or other cliffs. You are always together. Always on the inside of the wagons. Never aimed at each other. Joanne won the 1985 Hawaii Ironman by 92 seconds. With a hamstring injury that limited her running training to 16 miles a week, she came off the bike with a 10-minute lead. Then mile by mile, the lead shrank. Nine minutes. Eight. Seven. With a few miles left, she stopped in the middle of the lava field, massaging her legs, almost pleading with them to run. She looked up at the sky. Then her gaze fixed somewhere down the road. She started to run. You're racing for self-respect. Joanne told Jim afterward: in the end, you're racing to know that you couldn't have run a step faster. Only you'll know. If you know you couldn't have run a step faster, that's actually winning. When Jim writes, he's on the lava fields. When he finishes a book, he wants to know he couldn't have written one sentence better. When you're on the lava fields, this is the moment you want to quit. Don't. Writing is thinking. When the writing isn't working, the thinking isn't clear. Go back to the data. Find the through-line. There are three types of luck:
- What luck. A cancer diagnosis. A guitar left in an empty house. An event that breaks your way.
- Who luck. The people who walk into your life. Joanne. Morten Hansen. Jerry Porras. Bill Lazier.
- Zeit luck. When what you're doing intersects with the surrounding zeitgeist. Jimmy Page was in Surrey when the British rock explosion happened.
Luck is an event you didn't cause, with significant consequences, and an element of surprise. The big winners weren't luckier. They had a higher return on luck. What you do with luck events matters more than the luck itself. Bill Lazier: the closest thing to a father Jim ever had. Jim ended up in Bill's class at Stanford because the class he was trying to take was full. The random course-sorting mechanism threw him into the first class Bill ever taught. Pure WHO luck. Jim did not cause that.  Discover your encodings. An encoding is a durable capacity of your intrinsic construction that resides within, awaiting discovery through the experiences of life.  Jim has done over 300 online courses on every imaginable subject. Constitutional law. Napoleon. World War I. The history of China. He started them to learn how to teach. Then his curiosity took over. That's what an encoding looks like in the wild. You have a constellation of encodings. Like stars. When your life captures a bright set of those encodings, you're in frame. When it doesn't, you're out of frame. The same person can look amazing in frame and not very amazing out of frame. The most important finding from this book: don't follow anyone else's advice. Their advice is well-meaning. It may have worked beautifully for them. But it worked for them because it flowed from their encodings. And their encodings are not your encodings. Barbara McClintock and Grace Hopper. Two women who won the Nobel Prize and shaped computer science. McClintock was encoded for solitary work. She didn't even have a phone. She heard about her Nobel Prize on the radio. Hopper was encoded to work through people. She kept a pirate flag in her office and once stole furniture for her team in the middle of the night. Two completely different encodings. What they shared: their lives were in alignment with their encodings. Leadership is the art of getting people to want to do what must be done. It's not a trait. It's a choice. Anyone in any organization can lead, depending on their desire to make a difference. Nobody needs to wait for a title. Ryan's encoding is "the relentless persistence of invitation." Jim observed that Ryan has incredible encodings for what he'd describe as attractive persistence. Not pushy. Not aggressive. But persistent and welcoming. The invitation never goes away. The way you lead should be different from everyone else. Because you are encoded differently. Trust your encodings, not their playbook. Roger Sherman saved the U.S. Constitution. Twice. He created the bicameral legislature compromise. He insisted the Bill of Rights be amendments, not rewrites. Yet most people don't know his name. He almost never spoke. He listened in committees and waited for the precise moment to introduce just the right point to turn American history. Quiet. Behind the scenes. Uncharismatic. Unglamorous. Enormously effective. That was his encoding. You should largely ignore what other successful leaders did. It's marvelous to listen to. It might give you ideas. But everything that worked for them reflected their encodings, not yours. The work isn't to copy their playbook. The work is to discover your encodings and trust them. The color of Jim's fire changed. When he was younger, his fuel was rage, fury, and a sense of terror with no safety net. He used to worry that if he ever lost it, he'd lose his drive. What replaced it was a different kind of fire: the joy of curiosity, of being lost in giant projects, of marvelous conversations, of sharing what he's learned. His drive is higher than ever. It just feels a lot better now. The 3x3 reflective practice. After almost any conversation, teaching moment, or significant interaction, Jim writes down three things that went well and three things he could have done better. He's done it for years. He's now systematizing it. He doesn't pause to celebrate. He pauses to learn quickly and move on. At the top of Jim's notes for this conversation: "The biggest reminder for today, reconnecting with an old friend." That's the celebration. What could be a better celebration than reconnecting with somebody you've had marvelous conversations with? Reflection Questions
- What is your most significant cliff? What did you reconstruct on the o

Pre-Order new book, The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver My Guest: Dr. Nicole LePera is the creator of The Holistic Psychologist, a platform with over 12 million followers, and the author of three New York Times bestselling books, including her newest, Reparenting the Inner Child. Key Learnings: Nicole was good at everything, so struggling meant failure. Her family's message was clear: success in life meant financial security through academics or athletics. The implicit message: you're worthy when you're bringing home A's, when you're winning the softball game. She quickly learned to identify things she wasn't immediately good at and just not pursue them. She filtered life, staying on the path of comfort. Your childhood adaptations don't leave. Nicole calls it the inner child. It doesn't matter how old you are or how far beyond your childhood you think you've gotten. It impacts you in reactions, in identities, in your way of being. What was once your best attempt at safety, security, or connection still drives behavior today. Not all adaptations are problems. Many continue to benefit us. The question isn't whether the adaptation is good or bad. The question is: are you choosing it, or is it choosing you? Nicole's drive for achievement created opportunities. It led to massive impact. But she still has the overachiever who wants to blow past her limits and say yes when she's exhausted but means no.   The Holistic Psychologist started in 2018, and Nicole had no idea it would explode. She was living in Philadelphia, operating within a private practice model. Within the first year, people from around the world were resonating, joining, and interested in working with her in this new way. But at the beginning, even learning how to speak on camera was such a big challenge. Her partner would say, "Say what you said to me earlier," and Nicole's mind would go blank. Just putting a camera in front of her was near debilitating. Boundaries are about knowing who and when to take feedback from. Sometimes the feedback from a loved one, while uncomfortable, is helpful to hear. Other times, it's a helpful boundary where you're not opening yourself up to the opinion of someone who has a different vantage point or is speaking from their own projection. That's allowed Nicole to create safety in herself, confidence in herself, which translates to flow. Several years in, Nicole's dad sat front row at her book event, crying with pride. In the beginning, her dad and mom would ask, "Why do you have to use us as the example? Why do you have to share about our family?" Nicole would explain: " This is the only experience I can speak from, and our family's experience is so common. To see her dad, who came from a family largely shut down emotionally, crying in understanding and pride, was overwhelming and validating for why she does this work. At 13, Nicole was getting straight A's but unraveling on the inside. She was socially shy, struggled to order food at restaurants, and had very few friends. Then she discovered alcohol and pot made her feel comfortable. That anxiety she lived with suddenly felt freer. She would stumble through the living room at night, her parents already in bed, then wake up at 6:00 AM the next day, pitch a softball tournament, win it, and seemingly be fine. Her parents had no idea. She was very good at suppressing her emotions and coping. By contrast, on the surface, it seemed like she was doing well. They were a family who didn't really talk about emotions, so they had no indication. The drive itself isn't the problem. It's the energy that inspires action. Nicole's dad worked into the night to support the family. Her mom would say, "why not 100?" when Nicole brought home a 96. That translated into drive and ambition. That's not a problem. For a lot of us, it's the energy that inspires action and translates into impact. It can become a problem when we have no limits to our working, where we exhaust ourselves and burn out, where we don't feel worthy in moments of inaction or rest. The marker of a healthy relationship with drive is flexibility. When you're forced to stop because you're sick, exhausted, emotionally overwhelmed, or someone else needs you, can you be flexible enough to do that without feeling terrible about yourself? The ability to choose to say, "Okay, contextually speaking, I need to pause," and still feel okay about yourself, that's the marker.   Hold space for both: acknowledging harm and taking agency. Other people have contributed to our discomfort. Maybe parents didn't meet our needs. If we don't acknowledge that, we suppress. But we also can't stay stuck in anger and resentment. A true boundary isn't demanding that someone else be different. That's still giving away your agency. A true boundary is saying: you've hurt me, and I'm gonna take responsibility that I'm allowing it. I'm gonna show up differently now to limit the impact of what you're doing. Talking about trauma can keep it alive in your body. Trauma doesn't live in logic and understanding. It lives in your body. It lives in habits and reactions. Your mind is so powerful that you can think something and feel as if you're living it in that moment. If you're going week after week talking about all the things that are hurting you, you're continuing to keep that alive in your body. Holistic psychology bridges the gap between mind and body. Traditional psychology focused solely on the mind. The CBT model says if we think differently, we produce different feelings, then different actions. But Nicole was missing the body. Our nervous system, our earliest environments, neurobiologically created patterns wired into us. Science now shows we maintain the ability to change throughout our lives. Drop into your body. Where is your attention right now?

• Are you feeling your muscles, your heels impacting the earth, where you're sitting?
• Or are you so lost in thought you're disconnected?
• Jaw clenched? Fists clenched? Shoulders up to your ears?
• Holding your breath? Breathing short and quick from your chest?

These are markers that your body is under stress right now. Once you have that information, make small shifts. Slow and deepen your breath. Elongate your exhale just a little longer than your inhale. If your movements are quick, slow them down. If you're holding tension, release it. Now you're regulating your body so you can show up differently. Meditation is just awareness. It's not sitting cross-legged trying to make your mind quiet. Life can be a meditative experience. Thoughts are helpful. They're where we create things, have insights. The goal isn't a blank, quiet mind. The goal is awareness. Nicole calls it her spaceship. Her protective habit for so long has been to dissociate, to disconnect. She pursued clinical psychology where she can live in her mind. When what she's feeling in her body is too uncomfortable, the quickest path out is to distract herself with someone else, with the next achievement. This work has made Nicole's relationships more real. More authentic. More grounded in vulnerability, messiness, emotion as opposed to curated versions of who she thinks she needs to be. What she's most familiar with is dealing with all her feelings alone. The Harvard study found one thing leads to a happy life: love. Ryan referenced the longitudinal Harvard study that has gone on for 90 years studying what leads to a happy life. At the end of the day, it's love. The ones who live the happiest, longest, most fruitful lives are surrounded by people they love and who love them.  What a gift it is to be loved for all of yourself, not just the perfect parts. When you can show someone all of yourself, your messiness, the things you hid and kept secret, and still be loved. The overachiever gets to show more parts of herself, and people don't abandon her. They stay. That's the love most of us are striving for. We are all a bunch of messy humans trying to figure it out as we go. Nicole's champagne moment a year from now: presence and beingness. Whatever is happening or not happening in her life, she's celebrating the celebration of that moment. Being alive. Feeling the gratitude, the joy. Not focusing on what was produced to give her the opportunity to celebrate, but being present to the life around her. The taste of the champagne, the humans surrounding her in that moment.  Reflection Questions

• Which childhood adaptations are still driving your behavior today? Are you choosing them, or are they choosing you?
• When was the last time you actually dropped into your body and checked: am I tense? Am I holding my breath? Am I stressed?
• Who in your life sees all of you, not just the polished version, and loves you anyway?

More Learning #547: Dr. Michael Gervais - Stop Worrying About What People Think of You #140: Dr. Carol Dweck - The Power of a Growth Mindset #229: Dr. Henry Cloud - Be So Good They Can't Ignore You Podcast Chapters 00:00 Book Announcement  01:08 Show Intro and Guest Setup  02:36 Good at Everything: The Hidden Cost  06:47 When Therapy Stopped Working  09:32 How The Holistic Psycholog

Read my new book, The Price of Becoming. www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: David Epstein is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Range and The Sports Gene. A former investigative reporter at ProPublica and senior writer at Sports Illustrated. His new book is called Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better. Notes   Be part of "Mindful Monday" -- Text Hawk to 66866 Key Learnings The easier move is to let it go. David found a factual error in Ryan's new/my new book. David was supposed to read it and write a blurb on it - but went further and challenged a factual error. The kind move, what great leaders actually do, is being willing to point things out, even if it could cause a little friction.  There is such a thing as too much autonomy. After Range became mega viral, David optimized for autonomy. He individualized his whole life. He no longer was writing about what others assigned him. A year later, he realized there is a thing as too much autonomy. He missed the structure of a work day, the deadlines, the annoyances of working with other people's schedules. This total freedom ended up feeling terrible.

"The great thing about being committed by your own choice is that you can stop wondering how to live and start living."  This quote by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi hit David when he was on a dating app for book topics, just swiping and swiping. That day he said, "I'm really interested in constraints. I need some myself. I'm writing a book proposal on this." Two weeks later he was 10 times more interested because he decided to dive into it. Cal Newport says "system shutting down" at the end of his workday. It seems silly, but when you have all that freedom, you need something to close the workday so you can recover and be ready for the next day. Your brain is made for preventing you from having to think whenever possible. Cognitive scientist Daniel Willingham says thinking is energetically costly. So when your calendar is too open, all you'll do is what's convenient. Your brain will be lazy. The path of least resistance. The mere urgency effect: when schedule and structure is too open, people do things that seem urgent even if they're unimportant. When you're too unstructured, you end up doing huge volumes of low value stuff just to have checked off doing something. What David's workday looks like now: 

• Batching work: people at work check their email on average 77 times a day. The way people are usually doing that is they're toggling all the time between email and something else. When you do that, it lowers your productivity and massively increases your stress.
• David doesn't start his day with his inbox. He'll check it at the end of the workday because emails can take him away from the most important work at the beginning of the day. 
• Stress + Rest = Growth. The workday ends when David's son gets home. When writing, you have to program in rest, just like you would if you were an athlete in training. 

Daniel Kahneman said writing "Thinking Fast and Slow" was the worst few years of his life. David had lunch with Kahneman and praised the book. Kahneman said, "Never again." He said it was so isolating. He was used to working with a partner or multiple partners and colleagues. He felt so isolated that he said he'd never write a book again, or if he did, he would write it with somebody else. And that's what he did. And David could empathize with that.  David made a one-page architectural outline for how "Inside the Box" would look. If it's not on that page, it is not in the book. He wrote as small as possible to try to defeat his own system. The book's 20% shorter than his other two. He thinks it's much tighter writing. He was so much more efficient that he doesn't feel nearly as burned out. After a mega hit book, two things matter: (1) A lot is out of your control, and (2) Identify as a craftsman. David's colleague at Sports Illustrated told him, "If a book about genetics and vampires comes out the same day, you're screwed, and there's nothing you can do about it." He was right. But David very strongly identifies as a writer now, as a craftsman. He's taken fiction writing courses just to learn about craft. With Inside the Box, he did a structural experiment that he found so engaging because he was focused on the craft itself, not just the commercial outcome. "Docendo discimus" - by teaching, we learn. This is a quote from Seneca. If people think they're going to have to teach certain material, they organize it more coherently in their own mind. They start pulling out main ideas and attaching different ideas together. Teaching it is even better, but just making someone think they're going to have to teach it makes them learn in a much more coherent way. Narrative values: the recurring themes that give coherence to a life. David went back and looked at his life and identified: curiosity, open-mindedness, diligence, and resilience. Now that he's started telling his story in that way, it shows up everywhere. But going forward, he also wanted some things in his story that he didn't have. So he identified forgiveness in particular because that has not been a strong suit for him. Ben Helfgott: the only living Olympian to have survived a concentration camp. Almost everybody in his family was killed in the Holocaust. He just preached forgiveness all the time. When David saw what Ben did, these petty grudges he's holding are nothing. You're just poisoning yourself when you hold these grudges. So David decided he wanted forgiveness to become one of his narrative values.  Herbert Simon won the highest award in computer science, psychology, and the Nobel Prize in economics. His quote serves as the epigraph of the book: "It is a myth, widely believed but not less mythical for that, that people are most creative when they're most free." Simon coined the term "satisficing." It's a combination of satisfy and suffice. It means having good enough decision rules. He contrasted that with maximizing. From a mountain of psychological research, it is almost always bad to be a maximizer. Maximizers are less happy with their decisions, less happy with their lives, more prone to regret. There's not much evidence they actually make better decisions most of the time. Simon was a proactive satisficer. He said you need three sets of clothing: one on your back, one in the wash, and the next one ready to wear. He simplified all the decisions in his life so he could save cognitive bandwidth for the really important ones. He famously said, "The perfect is the enemy of the good." Choose when to choose. Choose when to save and when to use your cognitive bandwidth.  Good enough doesn't mean you have low standards. It means you're saving your bandwidth for the most important things. "How you do anything is how you do everything" is completely wrong. This is one of David's least favorite quotes. It's wrong. Herbert Simon did the same mundane thing, the same breakfast every day, the same socks, so he could crush it in his work. He wasn't doing everything the way he was doing his work. The Fredkins Paradox: We spend the most energy on the least important decisions because we agonize when the options are really similar.

General Magic: They invented the smartphone in 1990. The iPhone would not exist without them. They had infinite degrees of freedom. They could do anything. When the device came out, it didn't solve a clear customer problem. It had a 200-page manual. They sold 3,000 units in the first six months. Meanwhile, people inside General Magic who bit off much smaller chunks had success. One low-level engineer started Auction Web. His bosses said no, too small. He left and changed the name to eBay. Another created Graffiti. He said "I'm going to solve a clear customer problem. Busy professionals want contacts and calendars on the go." He did just a calendar, contacts, and a memo pad. That was the Palm Pilot. By doing way less. By doing something, not everything. Tony Fadell (the "podfather"): "If you don't have constraints, make up constraints."  Bill Gurley said, "We have a saying in venture: more startups die of indigestion than starvation." When Tony co-founded Nest, he made his team work inside a literal box. He made them prototype the box before they had the product. If it didn't fit in that box, it was not a priority. Reflection Questions

1. What area of your life has too much freedom right now? Where could you add a constraint (a deadline, a ritual, a boundary) that would actually make you more productive or creative?
2. If you had to pick three narrative values that run through your life story, what would they be? Are they the ones you want, or do you need to add an aspirational value like David did with forgiveness?
3. What's one decision you're maximizing (trying to find the perfect choice) when you should be satisficing (good enough and move on)? How much time and energy would you free up if you applied Herbert Simon's approach?

More Learning #310 - David Epstein: Why Generalists Will Rule the World #582 - Cal Newport: Obsess Over Quality #660 - James Clear: The 4 Law

Read my new book, "The Price of Becoming." https://www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk My Guest: Marcus Buckingham is a Cambridge graduate. He spent nearly 20 years at the Gallup Organization, where he co-created the StrengthsFinder assessment. He is a New York Times bestselling author of influential books, including First, Break All the Rules and Now, Discover Your Strengths. Currently, he leads the People + Performance research at the ADP Research Institute. Key Learnings When you start a business, it's all about love. Seven out of 10 businesses fail, so when you start a business as an entrepreneur, you love what you do, you love your clients, and you surround yourself with people who can love it as much as you do. You all have this passionate delusion that what you're doing is really important and it's gonna work.  Marcus sold his company in 2017 and calls it the biggest mistake of his career. His company was broken down into silos, and the conversation became about maximization, compliance, and efficiency.  "Love is born savoring, it lives in intelligence, but it dies from neglect. Love dies from forgetting."  (Pablo Neruda) When you stop talking about love, you destroy it. Before you sell or scale, ask: Will this lead to more customers falling in love with your company and more employees saying they love working there? If the answer isn't obvious yes, then don't do it. Great companies protect the founder's flame. Walt Disney, Truett Cathy and Chick-fil-A, Apple's passion for design, Southwest Airlines, and Herb Kelleher. When companies lose their connection to the founding passion, they become the machine. The machine doesn't have a soul, and people can all feel it. Love is the most powerful force in business. If you want to drive productive human behavior, repeat visits, advocacy, loyalty, collaboration, high performance, the precursor to that is love.  But we don't say the word. Marcus was with 30 C-suite executives, and they spent two hours talking about data. They couldn't even say the word, love. They came to say it about customers, but never about their own employees. The job of a leader is to change human behavior. You're not paid to hit a goal. You're paid to change behavior so that you hit various goals. You've got two choices: directive (which works temporarily) or designing experiences. If you want sustainable behavior change, experiences drive behaviors, which drive outcomes.  The best leaders are skilled experience makers. That email you just sent? It's an experience. That meeting? It's an experience. Onboarding? It's an experience. Every touchpoint is picking up what you're putting down. Culture is just a series of experiences.  Either you are getting people to say "I love that," or you've failed to change their behavior. "If you are faking your beliefs, I can smell it, and I don't want to follow it." Authenticity is manifested in your beliefs, and they better be coherent with who you authentically are. Your customs are the living manifestation.  The things you customarily do have got to flow from your authenticity and your beliefs. The best leaders have their ABCs line up beautifully - they are authentically who they are, you know exactly what they believe, and their customs bring those authentic beliefs to life. The biggest driver of engagement is your local team leader, not the culture of the company. The culture is like the river, but there's a lot of different eddies. You join a company, but the sun, the moon, and the stars of your work is that local leader. The most important decision you make is who you make the leader of that team. A, B, C: Authenticity, Beliefs, Customs. We reach for authenticity in our leaders. We don't want perfection; we want authenticity because that leads to prediction. If you are authentically you, then I can predict you. I'm not expecting you to be perfect. I want you to be predictable. The definition of love to Marcus: Love is an experience that helps me feel more fully myself over time. Which is flourishing. Most of us go through life balled up like an armadillo, surrounded by armor plating. But inside of us, we want to take what's inside and express it. Love is a forward-facing emotion. We're anticipating goodness, and we have to take the armor off one plate at a time.  A question for all leaders:  What are the things I could practically do to get people on my team to feel like they are safe enough to express their best self on this team? The five sequential feelings of love:
- Control: "What's this world you've invited me into, and how does it work? "
- Harmony: "You have to tell people that you know what they're feeling."
- Significance: "Do you know my story?"
- Warmth of Others: "Who's with me? How can they help?"
- Growth: "How will this experience make me more capable?"
If a leader understands the five feelings, they have a blueprint to get your team where you want them to go.  Marcus's Audi story: he loved his Audi, then at the end of the lease, he got a robocall. "You are at the end of your lease. You have not turned in the car. You have one week remaining, or you will be charged $500." He wasn't planning to turn it in. He was planning to get another one. Next week, same robocall. He leaned out. It was jarring because he was excited, and Audi was pissed off. They lost him for five years. Audi didn't take harmony seriously. They don't design for experiences; they design for processes. The person at the dealership is in a different silo than the person writing the script for the robocall. No one creates a holistic experience map. We don't design for experiences; we design for processes. Go to a hospital. It's one handoff after another. The person who's supposed to hold the narrative together is you, the patient. The whole thing has been designed for efficiency, not for a holistic experience. Undesigned experiences lead to unpredictable outcomes. Disney builds a berm around the whole park so you can't see out. You can't see the Red Roof Inn next door. Universal Studios doesn't do that. Six Flags doesn't do that. Why? Because Disney is trying to create a holistic experience. These companies think holistically about a human having an experience. The best leaders, when you ask "How do you motivate people?" always say "It depends." It depends on the person. At some point, the experience has got to be individualized. Don't start there. That's why this is sequential. Start with control, then harmony, then significance. Tell them you understand their story and what will change because of that story. The hospitalist movement in hospitals produced the best patient outcomes. They give each patient a guide all the way through the handoff process. Their entire job is to explain you to all the other healthcare professionals and to explain all the other healthcare professionals to you. As a result, you feel held. If you love anyone, you don't imagine they're ever finished. Love is a forward-facing emotion. Growth is the fifth feeling, not the first. We get this wrong when we think about designing love. We build it backwards. We start with growth and warmth. No. What's happening is feeling by feeling, we're taking off one plate of armor. If you haven't taken off the first four, you can't hit them with growth. The simplest thing leaders could do: check in with each of your people for 15 minutes, one by one, every week. Ask them: 
- How'd you feel about last week? 
- What are you working on this week? 
- How can I help? 
Do that 52 times a year with each person individually, and you'll hit control, harmony, and over time significance. Marcus is creating an app with an AI design partner. He doesn't want his kids to grow into a world accepting loveless schools, loveless hospitals, loveless workplaces. The app will have a slider: loving/unloving. Let's call it what it is. It's love or not love. It's not okay to live in a loveless world, and we should call out unloving when we see it. Reflection Questions
- What would happen if you asked yourself before every major decision: "How does this help our customers love us more? How does this help our employees love working here more?"
- Are you designing experiences or just optimizing processes? What's one touchpoint in your customer or employee journey that feels mechanical and could be redesigned to feel more human?
- Which of the five feelings (control, harmony, significance, warmth of others, growth) are you strongest at creating for your team? Which one are you weakest at, and what's one thing you could do this week to improve it?
Time stamps 00:00 Marcus Buckingham Intro 02:21 The Biggest Mistake: Selling My Company  05:55 Can You Scale Without Losing Love?  07:59 Protecting the Founder's Flame  12:03 Why CEOs Can't Say the Word "Love"  15:42 Your Job: Change Human Behavior  17:55 Experiences Drive Behaviors Drive Outcomes  21:42 Love Is Five Sequential Feelings  25:40 Jesse Cole and Josh D'Amaro: Real Love in Action  29:50 How Do You Prove ROI?  31:32 The Local Leader Drives Everything  32:09 The Scatterplot: Same Company, Different Experiences  33:43 ABCs: Authenticity, Beliefs, Customs  35:41 What Love Actually Means: Flourishing  38:28 The Five Feelings Blueprint  39:00 Feeling #1: Control (What World Am I In?)  40:28 Feeling #2: Harmony (Do You Know What I'm Feeling?)  43:43 We Design for Processes, Not Experiences  47:34 Feelings #3, #4, #5: Significance, Warmth, Growth  53:04 The Simplest Practice for All Leaders: Weekly 15-Minute Check-Ins  57:37 EOPC

More Learning https://learningleader.com/marcusbuckingham/ - How Love and Work Must Be Forever Linked

Order my new book, The Price of Becoming... www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Nir Eyal is a Stanford lecturer, behavioral designer, and bestselling author who has spent his career at the intersection of psychology, technology, and human behavior. He's one of the most rigorous thinkers alive on why people do what they do, and what it actually takes to change. Notes Julie introduced Nir to the Turnaround technique. Nir and Julie met the first week of college in 1997 and have been married since 2001. A big part of the genesis of Beyond Belief came from Julie introducing Nir to this technique called The Turnaround, which comes out of the work from Byron Katie, that she used with her mother to repair the relationship she had with her mom. A limiting belief is a belief that saps motivation and increases suffering. It does that by creating short-term relief from discomfort. "I hate public speaking, I'm no good at public speaking, so I'm going to avoid public speaking." You reduce your motivation to go on stage, providing yourself temporary relief, but long-term suffering. The Turnaround helps you collect a portfolio of perspectives. The problem is that our minds hate changing beliefs. We use these beliefs to justify passivity. A turnaround helps you identify many different kinds of beliefs, and then you can choose the ones that serve you versus the ones that hurt you. Your conscious mind can only process 50 bits of information per second. Your brain is processing 11 million bits of information (the sound of a voice, light hitting your retinas, the ambient temperature of the room). Your conscious mind is not aware of all this. Your brain has to filter out and leaves you with 0.00045% of the information that's coming in. The brain sees reality through a tiny pinhole of attention. It's the difference between reading a simple sentence or War and Peace twice every second. In order to make sense of all this data coming in, the brain has to see reality through a tiny pinhole of attention, just a tiny fraction of reality you're actually consciously aware of. The brain makes predictions based on our beliefs. How does the brain make sense of all this information? It has to make predictions, and those predictions are based on our beliefs. We call this predictive processing. Everything you experience, everything you see, everything you feel, and everything you're inspired to do is determined by the three powers of belief. The three powers of belief:

• The power of attention changes what you see
• The power of anticipation changes how you feel
• The power of agency changes what you do

Limiting beliefs hide themselves. A limiting belief, by definition, is hidden because we think that what we see is accurate. We all think that what we experience is a fact. "I saw it for myself. I'm stating my truth. This is the way things are." But that's not true at all. The way the brain processes information is woefully inadequate to put that burden of truth on it. The Turnaround uses four questions to challenge limiting beliefs. 

• Is it true?
• Is it 100% absolutely true?
• Who am I when I hold onto this belief?
• Who would I be without this belief?

Nir's story: "My mother is too judgmental and hard to please." Nir sent his mom flowers for her 74th birthday. She said, "Thank you very much. But just so you know, the flowers were half dead. Don't order from that florist again." Nir instantly became his 13-year-old self and blurted out, "Well, that's the last time I order you flowers again." Venting is terrible. It does nothing but reinforce your beliefs about people because not only do we not see reality clearly, we certainly don't see other people clearly. We see our beliefs about people. We don't see reality as it is. We see reality as we are. The Turnaround opened up new possibilities for Nir. In 30 seconds, he determined: (1) that belief may not be true, (2) it doesn't really serve him, and (3) there might be a better way to be. He could actually be happier without that belief. The brain hates changing its mind. The turnaround asks you to look at the diametric opposite of your belief. We have a psychological immune system. Just like if you get a splinter in your finger, your body will mount an immune defense. The same happens in our minds. The more you feel "that's crazy, I don't wanna think that way, that can't be true," the more you need to explore it. Nir found four beliefs instead of one:

• My mother is too judgmental and hard to please
• My mother is NOT too judgmental and hard to please (maybe she was just conveying information)
• I am too judgmental and hard to please (I had rehearsed a script of effusive praise I wanted)
• I am too judgmental and hard to please towards myself (I felt incompetent that the flowers didn't work out)

"Beliefs are tools, not truths." This is the most important thing Nir can convey. Which one of those four beliefs is true? All of them. None of them. Who cares? Beliefs are tools, not truths. Facts, faith, and beliefs are three different things. 

• A fact is an objective truth about reality. It is so whether you believe it or not. The world is more like a sphere than it is flat. That is an objective fact. 
• Faith is a conviction that does not require evidence. 
• A belief is a conviction that is open to revision based on new evidence.

Most problems come from thinking faith is a fact. Too many people think that their faith is a fact, and the things they think are facts are nothing more than beliefs, which are changeable. That's where most of our problems come from: interpersonal problems, personal problems, geopolitical problems. The original belief left Nir powerless. "My mom is too judgmental and hard to please" only has one way out: she has to change so I could be happy. Good luck. The other three beliefs, Nir could do something about. They were in his control. That enabled him. It freed him. It was liberating. Misattribution of emotion: hurt people hurt people. When we feel bad inside, if you've ever been bullied or been a bully yourself, this is always what happens. When you feel crappy on the inside, the first person you can find, you're going to punch him in the face, either physically or verbally, because you feel crappy. That's what Nir did to his mom because he felt bad. So now she should feel bad. How to handle narcissists: acknowledge they're operating with the best tools they have. That person is a narcissist? Awesome, because you don't have to be around them. But narcissists are operating from the best tools they have. It doesn't mean you have to include them in your life, but how do you stop suffering because of them? Acknowledge they are, and reduce your suffering around them. Nir called his mom and apologized. He said, "I'm so sorry for my behavior. I realize that you were trying to help me. You were conveying information about the flowers, so I wouldn't order from that florist. Thank you for that." That call completely changed their relationship. We expect people to change, but we can't even change ourselves. We can't do the simplest habits like eating better, exercising more, and managing our time. Why are we expecting other people to change? "Love is measured by the benefit of the doubt." When Nir's daughter was born, and he held her for the first time, he felt overwhelming adoration. Five minutes ago, she didn't exist, and now he loved her more than anything. He gave her complete, total benefit of the doubt. Why? She didn't do anything. She never sent him flowers. Babies poop, they need food all the time, they cry. But he never said, "she's crying to annoy me." We give babies the ultimate benefit of the doubt. Why don't we give adults the benefit of the doubt? When those babies grow up and become adults, we don't give them the benefit of the doubt. The narcissist in your life, the person who offends you, the person that hurts you, those are the best tools they have. It doesn't mean you have to be with them or include them in your life. The requirement is: how do you figure out how to stop suffering, to be at peace? We're constantly judging everything. Somebody cuts you off in traffic. Jerk. There's a line at the burrito place. The business thing didn't work out. The stock market goes down. Judging, judging, judging all day long. Good, bad, good, bad, good, bad. Expecting things to be different than they are. These are all limiting beliefs, and all they do is make us suffer. "We don't have relationship problems. We have belief problems." The problem is your belief that something should be different from what it is. It's like asking Nir's daughter to speak Russian. She can't speak Russian. What am I expecting? She doesn't have that ability. Why should I have expectations that people should meet my expectations? Nir and Julie now collaborate instead of argue. Since they started using the Turnaround technique, they used to have disagreements. Now they collaborate. If there's a very smart person, much smarter than Nir, who has an opinion, who he respects deeply and loves and admires, why would he fight with that person? He would collaborate with that person. Different perspectives are an asset to collect. If Nir sees things one way and Julie sees them differently, that's amazing. A new perspective. It's like collecting Pokémon cards. You've gotta get 'em all. Now with more perspectives, he can pick the bes

My new book is The Price of Becoming. To order, go to www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Will Guidara is the former co-owner of Eleven Madison Park, the restaurant he took from a struggling two-star establishment to become the number one restaurant in the world. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller Unreasonable Hospitality, the host of the Welcome Conference, and a co-producer on the Emmy award-winning series The Bear. Notes: Key Learnings "Obsession is a beautiful thing when you can grab it by the tail." This quote is from chef Sean Brock when he opened his pizza place in Nashville. For Will, obsession is when you care so much about something that you give all of yourself to bring its most fully realized version to life. What obsession means to Will: "Loving with every ounce of my being the pursuit of something."  He can't imagine a life where he doesn't have something to be obsessed about. When you lose yourself in the pursuit of something, that's when it gets ugly. Obsession is a beautiful thing if you can grab it by the tail. For those that can't, it becomes ugly. You need to hold onto yourself while obsessively pursuing whatever it is. Find a hobby to be obsessed with before you retire. Will is 46 and has seen people he's long looked up to finally retire in their late seventies without a hobby they're obsessed with. They're feeling listless and without purpose. He's thinking about this now for his future: start to become obsessed with a hobby so that when you do one day retire, there's something else to fall into. "Adversity is a terrible thing to waste." You cannot always control what life throws at you, but you can always control how you react to those things, what you choose to learn from them, how you allow them to fuel your competitive spirit, the perspective you glean from those moments. Allow yourself and your team to feel the weight of the disappointment. When there's a moment of adversity, leaders hear "adversity is a terrible thing to waste" and immediately shift into cheerleader mode. That is not the right thing to do. You need to allow yourself to be as human as humanly possible, and give your team the grace to fully feel the weight of that disappointment.  Sometimes adversity sucks, and you just need to be able to say, "This sucks. I don't feel good. I feel bad. Let's feel bad for a moment." Suffer together. When your team is going through adversity, you want to know that your leader thinks it sucks, too. It's good to feel bad alongside a community, but then after a measure of time, that's when you say, okay, now how do we grow from this? How do we use this to compel us forward? Be thankful for the tough moments. Will can look back at every tough moment with gratitude. The girl who broke his heart two years before he met his now wife, he's so grateful that she did. Breaking up with his business partner and selling his restaurant company felt like the worst thing ever, but he wouldn't have written Unreasonable Hospitality had that not happened. "Who is a restaurateur without restaurants?" COVID forced Will to find the space to decide what he wanted to do next. When he sold the company, two days later, he had a full-blown identity crisis. COVID gave him the gift of forcing him to find the space to decide what he wanted to do next, as opposed to running back to do the thing he'd always done. Team first. "The best way to make sure that you are taking care of your customers is to start by taking care of your team." This is what Will learned from Danny Meyer. The power of language to define a culture. How beautiful and impactful it is when you take the time to clearly and succinctly articulate your values through language. Danny spoke in "isms." Every time he gave them an ism, it was clear that thing mattered to him, so it needed to matter to the team as well. Cult is short for culture. Will's friends from college joked that he worked for a cult, but cult is short for culture. The funny thing is, they worked for companies that lacked a culture. Every great team feels a little cultish, and that's because of the leader. Hospitality is the advantage. The only competitive advantage that exists over the long term comes through hospitality. Every company is trying to identify its competitive advantage: what is the thing about the business that will prevent someone else from coming in and taking away its customers? Those conversations almost always center around the quality of the product or the strength of the brand. Here's the thing: it does not just matter how good the product is, and it does not just matter how strong the brand is, because eventually someone's going to come around and build a better product or create a stronger brand. Relationships matter. Hospitality comes through consistently, generously, and creatively investing in relationships. Those take a long time to build, and if you build them in the right way, the loyalty you will earn takes a very long time to erode. McDonald's vs. Chick-fil-A. The hospitality difference. McDonald's does some of the coolest marketing things in the world. Their product is consistent, and there was probably a season for a very long time where they were the best burger chain out there. Compare that to Chick-fil-A: if you ask 10 people who makes a better chicken sandwich, a lot of people would say other people make better chicken sandwiches than Chick-fil-A. But people are still loyal to Chick-fil-A, not because of the brand, not because of the product, but because of the way that they make people feel. Little gestures go a long way. Chick-fil-A does things like "my pleasure" and refilling your drinks in the dining room. These little gestures go a long way because we are much less likely to leave one company and go to another, even if the other company is better priced and the product is a little bit better. Food is just a conduit through which to express hospitality. As many stories as you hear about Chick-fil-A doing little and big things to make people feel seen, you don't hear those stories about McDonald's. And that's not an accident. One company has chosen to invest all of itself in pursuit of that. The other one has not. If you're in the business of serving other people, these opportunities exist for you in an endless way. Find the smallest touchpoints. Every experience you're serving is filled with lots of big and little touchpoints. The problem is so many companies focus on only the most obvious touchpoints without realizing that there is impact to be made with each one of them.  Hospitality is a craft, a muscle that you can strengthen. Will created the Welcome Conference because he wanted someone who was a server at a restaurant who had dreams to own their own restaurant to have a place where they could learn about the craft of hospitality. What you can't afford to do with money, you can afford to do with time. Will can't afford the kind of speaking fees that people who inspire others on stage at his conference deserve, so he came up with a more creative way to show appreciation: a dinner the night before. It's about community, because the people who take that stage have the responsibility to create the conditions through which attendees can come together and form community. And it's impossible to form a community for others until you first feel a sense of community amongst yourselves. There needs to be a good reason for the event to exist. Will created the Welcome Conference years ago because there were chef conferences all over the world, and he was always the only dining room person speaking at them. He wanted a place for the dining room people to have community. Gift bags are a terrible idea. People think the more they put in the bag, the more hospitable they are. It's usually junk. "I look at something, design the version of that I wish existed, work obsessively to bring that vision to life, and then welcome others into my imagination."  What makes a great conference is meeting the people at those events. The best events are about the people in between the meetings. That time matters. Energy in a room is so important. Will is one of the most extroverted people in the world, but if he walks into a cocktail party and he doesn't know anyone, he seizes up. He doesn't like it. He likes to be around people he knows. Be a connector. A month before Will's event, he realized many people were coming alone, which he wasn't expecting. They sent an email to all of them and said, "We saw that you're coming alone. We have an idea. If you'd like to meet some people, let us know." They set up dinner reservations at Will's favorite restaurants in Nashville and did some matchmaking. Those 40 people ended up coming into the beginning of the conference the next day already like this one big, awesome community. Make the "yes" as easy as possible.  Will gets Emmy screeners, and some people send DVDs (which he doesn't have a player for), while others send QR codes, which make it very easy to watch. The lesson: make it easy for people to say yes to what you're offering. Shop your own business. Stay in your own hotel. Until you've actually been on the receiving end of whatever you're serving, you have an inability to see all the things you're doing wrong or the opportunities you have to do more things right. "Never let a gracious impulse pass." There's the devil and angel on your shoulder. The devil will tell you how hard it will be. Don't listen to that. If you are going to shop your own business, when an idea

Go to https://www.LearningLeader.com/becoming to learn more about "The Price of Becoming." -- My new book!   Clark Lea is the head football coach at Vanderbilt… He's led one of the best turnaround stories in college football. He got hired as head coach in 2021 to inherit a program that had gone winless the year before. What he's built since is remarkable: a 40–35 upset of No. 1 Alabama, back-to-back SEC Coach of the Year awards, and Vanderbilt's first 10-win season in program history. He's won games and changed the culture. Key Learnings Better people make a better team. Development in one area is development in all areas. We're trained to see life in separate lanes (coach here, husband here, father here, student here, athlete here), but when you live that way, you're in constant conflict. Instead, see each person as a circle where all those roles define who we are, and development in one area is development in all areas. Show up on time, deliver on time, engage resources. If you show up on time, turn your work in on time, and engage the resources that are here to help you, you're not just going to survive, you're going to thrive. This is what it takes to be a great football player and a great student. "We are not victims in this process." After missing the playoffs, Clark told his team: This is the ground we stand on, this is who we are. Let's be really proud of what we accomplished, but also acknowledge we've fallen short, and that is no one else's fault. Vanderbilt football doesn't need to complain loud enough to get someone to change their mind. We need to play better football. The joy we can experience is equal and opposite to the pain we can experience. In athletics, you're suspended between the pain and the joy, and the depths of that pain can be excruciating. But the joy we get to experience together in a shared way is unbelievable. The entry fee is the acceptance of that. ?This is exactly where we're supposed to be because there are no mistakes." Driving into work the day Vanderbilt didn't make the playoffs, Clark realized: this is actually exactly where we're supposed to be because there are no mistakes. As a leader, they have to know who you are. How do you coach a team and make sure your personality shows up on the field? As a head coach, being open, honest, and exposed in front of the team is essential to leadership philosophy. Take new players through your entire story. Clark does an intake meeting with new players every year that runs an hour and a half. He starts with an image of himself as a kid and takes them through high school, college, his career journey, where he met his wife, where they got married, where each of his kids was born, the highs, lows, all of it. Then he takes them through the state of the program when he got here and every team since. Share your family with them. Clark's kids are around all the time, his wife comes out to practice, and they talk about things in an open and honest way. That's a gateway to really meaningful relationships, and that's been the bedrock of this program build. "Change is hard. Change is painful. Are you willing to go to the hard places?" This job has been a personal evolution for Clark, which has allowed for program evolution. He had to change, and he didn't know about going to the hard places until he took this job. When you get so obsessed with long-term goals, you leverage the moment in such a way that makes it impossible to breathe. Clark thought he was going to be a major league baseball player. He went to Birmingham Southern, won the NAIA World Series, but his skills were diminishing. He was experiencing the yips, a mental block, because he was holding it too tight. Even though you change places, your problems will follow you. Clark transferred to Belmont for a fresh start, but his skills diminished even further. It was humiliating and challenging to his identity. That year was really difficult. "Relatedness is our edge." Brotherhood is the most overused word; family is overused. Relatedness is this shared experience we have, a sense of belonging and community, a deep respect, a foundational respect. Once we learn how to see each other at that depth and understand one another and care for one another and fight for one another, we carry that as an edge in our performance. "Belief is a practice." Clark said four years ago that they're building the best program in the country, and everyone laughed except people internally. The phrasing is important: "We are building the best." That means it's early stages. Hope is passive; belief is an active decision. Hope is passive; belief is an active decision. When you hope for something, you kind of sit back, and you go, man, I hope that's the case. Belief is, I believe this is the case, so here's the thing I'm going to invest in that puts me on the pathway to actualizing that outcome. If the belief isn't there, your tolerance for sacrifice won't be there. You're going to see the entry fee, and you're going to hope that it happens. When we take belief into a practice, we make it happen. "I don't have to be bigger, faster, stronger in my role anymore, but I need to suffer." Anyone on an aspirational journey makes sacrifices. Clark's tolerance for suffering shows up in getting in the weight room and training, eating habits, social habits. "Make sure before you give the thumbs up that you get your skis up." Clark's dad taught him water skiing: if your skis are parallel or pointed downwards, you're going to go up and over those skis and just be dragged in the wake of the boat. As a leader, once Clark gets in the building, his time belongs to everybody else. He has to have his skis up in the morning. If you're late at night drinking, you're not going to be able to have that time in the morning to prepare yourself to be what I need to be for others. There's sacrifice, but it's also joyful. Sacrifice isn't something you have to do; it's actually what makes us special. "Head, body, head, body." This is from the movie The Fighter. This is Clark's mantra that puts you in the present: no matter what's happened, I'm not going to focus on what's come before, we're not going to forecast, we're going to be right where our feet are, and we're gonna remember the plan. Body shots accumulate. You can't knock the opponent out in one punch. Be the chief alignment officer and the chief reminding officer. Mike McDonald (Seahawks HC) said these are two of his primary roles. Clark uses the spear as a representation of alignment: the spear has to move in one direction to be effective. It doesn't matter what you say as a head coach in the team room if it's not taken into the tightest echo chambers. That environment's not powerful enough to inspire action. The culture of a school is defined in the classroom. For Clark, if what he says isn't taken to the position groups and reinforced, then driven into behavior, they're going to lose alignment and lose focus. "The culture of a school is defined in the classroom. Good teachers make for a good experience. Poor teachers make for challenging experiences." You can never tire of driving the standards and behaviors. The reminding part is: how tired can you get of driving the standards and behaviors? The skill becomes, can we focus on the things that impact winning? Let me focus on the things that are most important and let me be relentless in making sure those show up. Clark is reminding coaches, players, staff, all of it, and helping them and guiding them into driving accountability within their spaces. Then he has to let the program breathe a little bit. Performance can't be tight, it can't be restrictive. Clark needs his guys to bring their unique personalities and their creative energy that makes it so much more fun, and it shows up on the field. Let me remind you of who we are and what we do and how we do these things and how it impacts winning. But then let me let you be yourself and bring your personality and help us elevate this program, not just be a part of it. "Coach, I look forward to coming to Vanderbilt to help you win championships." When Diego Pavia got off the phone with Clark after their first conversation, he said this in the most genuine way. Clark had spent a lot of time trying to convince a lot of people of what was possible at Vanderbilt, and that felt like the first time that someone was meeting him right where he was. "The world doesn't need a watered down Diego Pavia." When Diego's at his best, he's being himself. It's also important to have boundaries, and without conflict, there's erosion. So you have to fight for those boundaries.  "We really are a group of misfits." Brian Longwell, one of their linebackers, commented during a team building exercise. A five star coming to Vanderbilt is not your typical five star. That choice in and of itself is the acceptance of a challenge. The misfit ignores the external and tends to the internal." As we elevate our people, we don't ever lose our identity. As long as they're true to who they are, the people they accept in this program will quickly get in lockstep with where they're moving. Reflection Questions What area of your life are you treating as separate from the others? Development in one area is development in all areas. How would this shift change your approach? Are you practicing hope or practicing belief? Hope is passive, belief is active. What would change if you made the shift? Do you have your skis up in the morning? What sacrifices do you need to make the night before to be what you need to be for others? More Learning:
https://learningleader.com/episode-062-jim-tressel-coaching-ohio-state-president-of-youngstown-state-servant-leadership-quiettime/ - Servant Leadership Through Coaching

Go to Go to https://www.learningleader.com/becoming to see the pre-order bonuses for The Price of Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Scott Galloway is the New York Times bestselling author of books including The Four, The Algebra of Happiness, Post Corona, Adrift, and The Algebra of Wealth.  Notes: Key Learnings Routine speeds up time, novelty slows it down. If you want life to go fast, just spend it alone and have a routine and never bust out of that routine. What makes life interesting is diversity in people, because people are complicated, and relationships are complicated. Lean into your emotions to slow time down. If you see something that moves you, stop, think about it, ask yourself why it moves you, and try to cement that moment in your brain. Otherwise, you're not sleepwalking through life; you're sleep sprinting. "The greatest wasted resource in history is good intentions that don't get articulated." No matter how famous someone is, they love affirmation as much as anybody else. Good thoughts that don't get articulated are wasted. Absorb when you're upset and lean into emotions, good and bad. This sort of marks the day and slows things down. Otherwise, if you get up every morning, do the same thing, eat the same thing, have the same relationship, the week's just gonna go really fast. Reverse engineer your success to things that aren't your fault. What are the things that played a role in your success that you had no control over? Your luck, your good fortune. For Scott: big government, assisted lunch, Pell Grants, University of California, technology financed by middle-class taxpayers, DARPA, the internet, deep pools of capital, and acceptance of failure. His mom told him he had value every day. Scott's mom, every day, implicitly and explicitly, told him and communicated to him that he had value. That builds a basic confidence that manifests in different ways: the confidence to fail, approach strangers, believe you're worthy of love, that you'll add value to a company, and that you can ask for tens of millions of dollars from someone. When good things happened, he used to call his mom. Whether it was getting a bonus at Morgan Stanley or striking up a conversation with a woman at Starbucks and getting her number, Scott used to call his mom. Your parents can bask in your victory, and you can brag to your parents, and it's okay. If there's no one there with you, it's like it didn't happen. Scott travels for business and stays at really nice hotels, and inevitably gets upgraded to the penthouse or the George V in Paris when he's alone. But if there's no one there with you, it's like it didn't happen. Celebrate victories, tell people how much they mean to you. You have to call your friends, celebrate their victories, celebrate your own, and tell people how much they mean to you. Every day, no matter what, tell your kids you're proud of them and love them. No matter how much Scott's kids piss him off, at some point, he finds a way to say, "I'm proud of you, and I love you immensely. You know that, right?" He hopes they have that same kind of base or pillar of confidence he had his whole life. Having someone tell you they believe in you every day works. You don't have to be a baller or successful. Just having someone in your life and every day telling them they mean a lot to you, they can't help but not believe you after a while. Being a leader isn't about being the smartest person in the room. Scott used to think being a leader was being the smartest person in the room, and he had trouble, especially with other men, thinking if he acknowledged someone else was doing a good job, somehow that made him less impressive. You have so much currency as a founder or manager. If you're in a management or leadership role, much less a founder, you have so much currency to pull someone into a conference room and say, "You were outstanding in that meeting" or "I just read this, and I love this paragraph. God, where did you come up with this idea?" You literally see these people just light up. "If you're thinking it, say it." The instant you're thinking something positive about somebody, just tell them, text them, call them. Don't wait. We have a tendency to think other people are telepathic, that they must sense we think they're wonderful. No, they don't sense it. Articulate it. When you're on your deathbed, you're not gonna think "I gave too much praise at work and told too many people how much they meant to me." Young people need watering. If you don't give young people feedback and praise when they deserve it, it's like having a ton of capital and not spending it. Especially with young people, they need watering. Feedback is incredible compensation. Whenever someone does something good, Scott tries to remind himself via email. Then, when he does their review at the end of the year, it's like, " Wow, this dude is paying attention. That is a form of compensation. Give thoughtful reviews that show you understand them. Tell them what they need to develop to get to the next level. Pay for the courses they need. They're a single mom who needs flexibility and wants to make more money. That's compensation. "Become a clip machine." Certain people are clip machines: James Clear, Morgan Housel, Kat Cole, Scott Galloway. These are people who communicate ideas in ways that are instantly shareable and memorable. For leaders, becoming an effective communicator isn't optional anymore. You need to be able to inspire and move people. The ability to write well is the stem of storytelling. It forces you to manage your thoughts and think things through. It's difficult to be a great storyteller if you can't write at a competent level. Rank yourself across every medium and go deep on one. Look at every medium (texting, LinkedIn, short form video, TikTok, long form writing, speaking), rank yourself, listen to yourself, decide what your specialty is, and then go very deep into one. Figure out your medium and commit to being in the top 1%. Challenge yourself to be in the top 10% within a year, the top 1% within three years. Identify which medium you have skills in, then challenge yourself. If you're in the top 6,000 podcasts out of 600,000 that put out content every week, you're in the top 1%. "Social media may make you want to shower after you use it, but it's frightening how powerful it is." In terms of economic power and influence, it's frightening how powerful social media is right now. If you're a young person and you want to be influential or economically secure, you need to master it. Storytelling is the enduring skill to give your kids. Scott's core competence is storytelling. His superpower is attracting and retaining people who help leverage his skills. The most radical act in a capitalist society is not participation. Scott started Resist and Unsubscribe because action absorbs anxiety. He was sick of being virtuous and courageous on a keyboard or a mic and wanted to do something. "Ready, fire, fucking aim on this thing called life." Scott wants to dance like no one is watching. He's gonna be dead soon, and it's all going really fast. He doesn't want to look back and think about losing sponsors or what people thought was stupid. He wants to think, "Right on, I tried to do something." He wants to be that guy who was unafraid, who showed up with a carpool to try and make a difference. Your spending or lack thereof is a weapon hiding in plain sight. The government most quickly responded six years ago during COVID, not because tens of thousands of people were dying, but because the GDP crashed 31%. The president backs away from plans when the bond market or stock market goes down. Even a gnat on an elephant matters. Even if it's just a gnat on an elephant, enough gnats will take down an elephant. If you have economic security and people who love you unconditionally, you have an obligation to speak out. Sam Harris has this great saying: if you have economic security and people who love you unconditionally, then you have an obligation to speak out and speak your mind, because most people don't have that luxury. Do what makes you feel good about yourself. It's not easy being mediocre-looking; it takes real effort. Scott grew up very skinny with bad acne and thinks maybe he's a little too focused or self-conscious about his looks. America is ageist, and looks matter. New York is the ultimate tip of the spear for a capitalist society, and it's optimized for two people: hot women and rich guys. For everyone else, it's a soul-crushing experience. We can talk about the way the world should be and the way the world is. That's the way the world is. Start working out. Scott coaches young men: start working out. It's good for your head. It shows women and employers you're in shape, not just because it looks good (which it does), but because it reflects how you show up, that you have discipline, that you can commit to something. The rule of threes puts you in the top 5% of attractiveness. If you work out three times a week or more, if you spend at least 30 hours a week working outside of the house, and put yourself in the company of strangers (church group, nonprofits, sports league), just by doing those three things, you put yourself in the top 5% of attractiveness of young males. Anyone who's had great yeses has had a shit ton of no's. If you can be in the top 5% and learn how to mourn and move on from rejection, at some point, you'll be voluntarily celibate, which is awesome. There were hundreds of no's for you to get to

Go to www.LearningLeader.com  This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Kat Cole is the CEO of AG1 (formerly Athletic Greens) and a renowned business leader known for a meteoric rise from Hooters waitress to Fortune 40 Under 40 executive. As former President/COO of Focus Brands (Cinnabon), she specializes in scaling global brands. Her career is defined by driving billions in sales, strategic innovation, and a strong, people-first leadership style. Key Learnings You can't market your way out of a bad product. AG1 has 3x'd the business in four years while being in only one channel (direct to consumer) for 15 years. 80% of retail is in brick and mortar, so they were doing that volume in less than 20% of where transactions happen. That only works when customers love the product, keep buying it for years, and tell their friends. Scale comes from trusted recommendations, not marketing spend. Real volume comes from people telling their friends, recommending it to their teams and companies. That's where real scale and sustainable growth comes from. Two questions guide every career decision. Is my work done here? Can someone else do what the company needs better than I can? If the answer to either is yes, that guides you toward pushing for change in your role, the way you show up, or finding the next opportunity. Sometimes the best move is the lesser-known role. Kat could have stayed running big franchise brands everyone knew (Cinnabon, Auntie Anne's), but becoming COO of the parent company, Focus Brands, was a bigger, more complex role. Lesser known, smaller team, bigger stretch, more learning. That bridged her into consumer packaged goods and got her ready for AG1. Consider financial needs, learning, and ego separately. Between financial needs, your ability to learn or contribute, and your ego or optics, there are questions you can ask yourself about a particular moment or opportunity that will help you be sharper in what you actually want versus what just looks like what's best next on the surface. The founder heard her on podcasts and asked for an introduction. AG1's founder heard Kat on a couple of podcasts, knew Sahil Bloom, and asked Sahil to make the intro. She just happened to be taking time off and had been a customer for two years. "You're interviewing for your next job every day." Whatever you do now, that choice of time, that tone of voice, that decision, how you show up or don't, creates an impact that leads to an experience and people's actions and then results. Eventually, it leads to the next thing. Showing kindness in the airport matters. A caring note to someone struggling, a teacher or stranger saying, "I see something in you," a compliment when someone's in a dark place. It helps people out of darkness. Or opportunistically, being the one who sent the email or made the ask means you're the one who got the opportunity. Don't burn bridges even when you feel wronged. When Kat was an executive at Hooters at 26, peers in their 50s and 60s would say things in meetings that weren't kind or appropriate. She would write letters expressing how it made her feel, but never sent them. She processed, reflected, and showed up professionally. Years later, those same people became advocates, partners, and references. Four key mindsets for senior leaders. Humility, curiosity, courage, and confidence. By the time candidates get to Kat, they've been vetted on technical capability. She spends time validating those four characteristics because leadership and style trickle far into the organization. Ask "if not for" questions to reveal humility. When someone tells you how they stood tall in tough moments, ask what enabled them to do those great things. They'll say, "I had access to this data, this team, this technical leader." Then ask: "If those people did not exist, if that resource did not exist, how would you have navigated that?" You peel back layers and see if they have the humility to acknowledge their success was due to critical factors. The best candidates do the job in the interview. When someone says, "If we're doing this, we'll absolutely need this person in this specific role," or they have people in mind they're bringing with them, that's a good sign. Hiring leaders who have people who are loyal to them shows something real. In reference checks, ask, "What does this person need to be successful?" It's a positive framing to get at what someone might lack or require around them to be effective. Help people answer "how should I think about this?" In a fully remote company, you have less context and fewer vibes. When you send a note about ending a product line or launching something you said you'd never launch, people's subconscious internal war is "how should I think about this?" Leaders should start communications with "here's how I think about this" or "here's how we should think about this." Sometimes the answer is to shut up and speak last. As teams get stronger, there's more weight on the few things the CEO says. Leave space for other leaders to lead. Kat removed herself from some meetings entirely because she has such great leaders and a strong culture. Pay attention to themes in criticism, not individual attacks. When competitors attack you, ask: Are there patterns? Is there something reflective of industry questions? Sometimes criticisms point to things you already do well but aren't communicating well enough. Comparison ads work short-term but don't build credibility long-term. Challenger brands use the playbook of "we're like the leader, but better/cheaper." Consumers see through it. People tell AG1, "I saw an ad comparing their product to yours, and they're clearly saying you're the leader." The rage bait is brief; the truth is long. Algorithms reward dopamine hits and rage bait. Something untrue or negatively spun can quickly become widely seen because the critique is brief and witty, but the explanation and truth are long. AG1 has more human trials on a single SKU than any other multi-ingredient product ever in the space, but that's harder to say in a sound bite. Don't criticize a car for not taking you to the moon. Someone criticized one of AG1's products for not doing something the product isn't supposed to do. When addressing criticism, clarify what the product is actually designed to do. Her husband will be the fourth person ever to row across three oceans. He's already rowed the Atlantic (set the US record as a pair) and the Caribbean. Now he's training for the Pacific. If he completes it, he'll be only the fourth person to have ever done it in the world.  It's about who you become while striving for the big thing. After her husband got rescued in the Caribbean, he questioned why he was doing this with two kids. But this pursuit is who he is, what drives him, it's inspiring for the kids, and it makes him a better person when he's home. It's about the journey and who you do it with. More Learning 476: Kat Cole - Raise Your Hand, Raise Your Voice 078: Kat Cole - Courage, Confidence, Curiosity, and Humility Reflection Questions

• Is your work done where you are? Can someone else do what the company needs better than you can?
• When interviewing someone, ask what enabled them to succeed in a tough moment. Then ask: if that team or resource didn't exist, how would you have done it differently?
• What communication this week needs context? Start with: here's what this means, what it's not about, and how we should think about it.

Audio Timestamps

• 00:18 Meet Kat Cole 
• 02:42 AG1's Growth Story: $160M to $500M+ 
• 03:28 Product-Led Growth Wins 
• 05:57 Kat on Writing and Reflection 
• 07:39 Two Questions for Every Career Move 
• 12:25 How Kat Joined AG1 
• 16:09 You're Always Interviewing 
• 18:47 Neutralizing Opposition at Hooters 
• 24:19 Hiring Great Leaders 
• 27:43 Inside Executive Interviews 
• 31:56 Reference Checks That Reveal Truth 
• 32:52 CEO as the Storyteller 
• 34:16 "How Should I Think About This?" 
• 35:46 Speak Last, Empower Leaders 
• 37:41 Handling Public Criticism 
• 39:59 Separating Signal from Noise 
• 44:49 Staying Focused Through Criticism
• 48:00 Champagne Question: Family First 
• 48:45 Rowing Three Oceans 
• 51:37 Who You Become on the Journey 
• 56:14 EOPC

www.LearningLeader.com The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Jamie Siminoff is the founder of Ring, which he sold to Amazon for over a billion dollars. He's an inventor and builder who couldn't hear his doorbell while working in his garage, so he built a video doorbell. When his wife said it made her feel safer, he realized technology had changed, and home security needed a complete reinvention. Ring became the world's largest home security company with a mission to make neighborhoods safer. Key Learnings  Jeff Bezos reads and writes his own stuff. When Jamie asked Jeff to write something for the book's back cover, Jeff actually read it and wanted his own curated quote that was from him. Jeff loves entrepreneurs, so they kept him out of negotiations. After the Whole Foods deal, Amazon learned to keep Jeff out of negotiations because he finds it tough to negotiate hard with someone he respects. Hardware companies can die while growing fast. Ring grew from $3M to $30M to $174M to $480M, which sounds amazing. But to go from $170M to $480M, you're buying hundreds of millions of dollars of product when you're selling less than that. If sales growth slows, you're basically going out of business. Going from $480M to over a billion in revenue was like being on a motorcycle at 200 miles an hour. If a leaf falls down and hits you, you're dead. At Amazon, when Ring said, "We need another billion dollars to order stuff for next year," Amazon said, "Okay, what else do you want?" There are different types of entrepreneurs. Jamie is an inventor/entrepreneur. There are business entrepreneurs who are maniacal business people we've never heard of that have just crushed it. Jamie is maniacal on product and brings invention into how they run the company. Hire marathon runners. Marathons are the dumbest thing any human could ever do. Even if you win, no one cares. Jamie finished the Boston Marathon in 22,000th place and he's so proud of himself. You want people that don't care about external validation; they just care about getting the mission done. AI has democratized all information. With AI making it so you don't even need to know C++ programming anymore, fill your business with passionate people who care about the mission and they'll crush anything. When building your team, start with the mission. Jamie tells people, "Our mission is to make neighborhoods safer. Do you want to work on making neighborhoods safer? Because if you don't, you're going to be miserable here. You're going to hear it every day, and you're going to roll your eyes."  Referrals work because people don't want to let you down. The best hires are when someone's referred by someone (uncle, friend, whatever) because they feel guilty. They don't want to let the person who referred them down. Find an infinite truth to work on. Amazon's core principles are infinite: Will customers always want lower price, more selection, and faster delivery? Yes. If you deliver in 30 minutes, they'll want it in 10 minutes. Making neighborhoods safer is an infinite thing to work on. Your wife saying one thing can change everything. Jamie built a video doorbell so he could hear the door from his garage. His wife said, "It makes me feel safer at home." That's when he realized technology had changed and home security needed a whole new approach. The hard part is bringing the infinite down to the tactical. When you have an infinite mission, you can get overwhelmed trying to solve it all at once. You have to figure out what to do every single day to work toward that infinite goal. Shark Tank was a disaster that turned into everything. Jamie went on Shark Tank desperately needing money. He got zero offers and cried in his car after. But when it aired, the boost in sales gave them cash to hire people and build Ring, which started the clock on their success. Sometimes you can't stop because you're in too deep. After Shark Tank bombed, Jamie couldn't back out. He'd already ordered too many products and owed too much money. He'd be personally bankrupt if he stopped. People think he's tough for keeping going, but he didn't have a choice. Being naive is a superpower. Great inventions are things people say can't happen because if they could happen, they'd already be out there. You have to be naive enough to say "I think I can do this" or "I don't even know that I can't." People said you couldn't build a battery-operated camera on WiFi. Jamie had never built anything before, so what did he know? They just went out and tried to put some parts together that seemed like they would work. Knowing too much gets in the way of doing the work. If you're thinking and analyzing the whole world, that's time you're not inventing, building, making calls. When are you actually doing the work? The Ring.com domain negotiation was survival. The owner originally wanted $750K for the domain. Jamie had $178K in the bank on the day he was supposed to pay. He called and said "My board said I can't do the deal, but they approved $175K today and $1M total over two years." The guy hung up, called back, and said fine. There was no board, it was just Jamie.  The stress internalized and destroyed him. Jamie wasn't sleeping and was super stressed. There are different types of entrepreneurs: some can handle that stress and sleep like a baby. Jamie internalized it, and it affected him terribly. Be transparent at home. Jamie's son was six years old and knew where the business was. His kindergarten teacher would say, "I hear the business isn't going well." They just had open, adult conversations about everything. Work-life integration, not balance. Jamie integrated work, life, and family together. His son came with him to pick up the first DoorBot in China. Oliver has been to 40 countries and almost every state because he traveled to every meeting. Bring your kid to the meeting. People asked, "How do you bring your kid to a meeting?" Jamie said, "Who do you think they're gonna remember more?" We're always scared to be different. Follow your passion, but make money when you need to. It's hard to see anyone who's achieved greatness who didn't do what they loved. But there are times you have to work your ass off to make money (Jamie was a bellhop and valet parking cars). When you set out to do something, do something you care about. If you fail trying to make money, that really sucks. If you fail trying to do something you love, at least you tried to do something you love. If Ring fails, they try to make neighborhoods safer. That's noble. You can tell who's successful by how fast they respond. It's a weird flip-flop of what it should be. You'd think a successful person should respond in a month, but the people running at the highest levels are actually very efficient. There's something about it. First principles thinking eliminates recurring meetings. There's no way every single Monday at 9 AM you have something important to talk about. The world can't exist like that. Meet when you need to do something, not on some cadence. Hire the best and let them work. Get the best quarterback, best kicker, best coach. Let them work together, let them practice, have the plays. You don't need to get together every day to talk about how you're feeling. No standing meetings, zero recurring one-on-ones. Jamie doesn't have a standing meeting with his team in any cadence. He talks to people all day long, all night long, Sundays, but it's event-based. "We have to get sales up on this, where are the issues?" If you're not doing your job, we'll fire you. Service to others is the best thing you can do. A year from now, Jamie would be celebrating something on the charitable side. Probably something with their work in South Central LA with LAPD, or at their 75-acre farm in Missouri helping the town that's been impacted by opioids and industrial farming. More Learning #191: Robert Herjavec: (Shark Tank Investor) - You Don't Have to Be a Shark to Be Effective #626: Rob Kimbel - The Power of Grit and Generosity #632: Nick Huber - The Sweaty Start Up Reflection Questions

• What's a problem you could pursue for decades without exhausting its potential? What mission has no endpoint, only continuous improvement?
• Work-life integration. What are you keeping separate that might be better together? Where could you stop trying to "balance" and instead integrate?

Audio Timestamps 02:19 Bezos' Endorsement for Jamie 03:30 Selling Ring to Amazon 05:04 Hypergrowth Cash Crunch 07:54 Inventor vs Business Operator 09:34 Hiring Marathoners 11:20 Interviewing and Firing Fast 13:25 Mission Origin and Big Vision 15:40 Infinite Truth and Focus 17:06 Getting on Shark Tank 19:32 Live Demo and Rejection 23:13 The Aftermath and Momentum from Shark Tank 24:57 Naivete as Superpower 27:00 Doers Beat Planners 27:33 Winning Ring.com Deal 30:17 Stress and Family Support 31:33 Work-Life Integration 33:26 Passion Versus Practicality 36:08 Scaling Authentic Culture 37:26 Frontline Leadership Style 42:15 Team DNA & No Standing Meetings 45:19 Service and Jamie's Farm Mission 47:39 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader The Learning Leader Show Key Learnings  Go out and dent the universe. Erin's parents didn't put pressure on her to get perfect grades or go to Harvard; they wanted her to use her privilege and beautiful upbringing to make the world a better place. Youngest child syndrome makes you quick. Being the youngest of six, Erin learned to speak very quickly to get her thoughts in at the dinner table, and she was given unsolicited advice her whole childhood (which is why she loves giving advice now). Your siblings' sole job is to keep you grounded. Erin's parents are proud and supportive, but her siblings roast her and beat her down (all in good fun) to keep her as humble as possible. Success is attributed to a sense of humor. Erin gave career advice that was funny, and nobody had ever really seen that before. You don't get that unless you're the slightly bullied youngest of six kids your entire life. Rejection rage is a choice. At a Women in Film networking event, the head of the organization paused Erin's documentary trailer 30 seconds in and said, "You need to be more realistic." Erin went on to get a Pulitzer fellowship and premiered a feature documentary at 23 with international distribution. When you get a rejection, you can either let it beat you down or say, "I'm going to show them." "Tell me about yourself" is the world's worst interview question. It's lazy, not specific, and hard for the interviewee to truncate their entire life into 90 seconds. Use the past-present-future template: 1-2 sentences about your past, 1-2 about your present role, then future (where the interviewer's ears perk up), connecting to why you're applying for this specific role. Specificity is the magic word. When sending cold emails, the chances of getting a good response dramatically increase if you're specific: specific praise, specific question. Instead of "Can I pick your brain over coffee?" say, "I watched your video about X, and when you said Y, it piqued my curiosity." Higher quality questions get higher quality answers. This isn't just for podcasts or job interviews; it's a life skill. Good professional communication is like chess, not checkers. Most people just play checkers (you said this to me, I'm going to say this to you), but chess is thinking 10 steps ahead about what your end goal is and how this person falls along the path to that goal. Don't ask for a raise; ask for an adjustment to your compensation. Your job is transactional (you do work, they pay you). When you accepted your salary, you were doing X, Y, Z. Now you're doing X, Y, Z plus A, B, C. It's no longer an equal partnership, so you need an adjustment. It's not personal, it's just professional. Know your audience and your leverage.  Emotional regulation is powerful communication. If we just act impulsively and say what's on our mind all the time, it doesn't actually get you where you want to go. Always keep your desired outcome in mind. It's about checkmate. Don't just react, think about what the end goal is and how this conversation gets you there. Humanize people, don't make them wrong. That egotistical senior VP is probably actually really insecure about where they are in their career and wakes up every morning not knowing what they're doing. Put your ego to the side. Being a great communicator requires taking a break from thinking about yourself and thinking about what the other person's life is like and what their goals are. Align your goals with their goals. Think about how you can create that authentic relationship by figuring out how your goals align with what they're trying to accomplish. Shut up and listen. We do a little bit too much talking when we're trying to negotiate or strategize. It can be very beneficial to embrace the silence and practice active listening. Curiosity is an amazing way to show love. Being genuinely curious about a person makes them like you, and it becomes more natural the more you do it. Compliments have to be genuine and specific. People are way better at sniffing out fake compliments than you realize. If you can't find one thing you truly admire about someone, don't say anything. Don't make it transactional. When people ask, "How do I not make it feel like I'm using them?" Erin says, "Well, don't use them. Just be genuine." The most loving thing you can do is respect people's time. Meeting bloat has gotten really bad since the pandemic, and a lot of time is disrespected in meetings across the world. Maybe don't have the meeting. A lot of meetings are completely unnecessary, or at least the way they're set up, the people invited, or the way they're run are really inefficient. Only invite crucial people. Make sure that only the people who absolutely need to be there are invited to the meeting. Always have an agenda. At the beginning of every meeting, say "Here are the three things we're going to cover today, and here's the goal of this meeting." Put it in the calendar link with bullet points. Don't have brainstorming meetings. Have meetings with very tangible goals at the end, state them up front, and make sure that goal has been achieved by the end. Email subject lines are underutilized. Erin's dad's company would put tags like "request," "informational," or "command" on subject lines so you knew exactly what type of email it was and what was expected. The exercise of making a five-year plan changes your brain. Erin doesn't believe in sticking to a five-year plan, but the exercise of thinking about the future creates new neural pathways that change the way you think about yourself and your life. A happy life is an intentional life. The vast majority of people float through life and act very reactionary. Sitting down and thinking about what you actually want in five years is powerful self-care. Sit down with your partner and do this together. Before you get married, make five-year plans together. They might look really different (which is revealing) or really similar which doubles down on alignment. Create multiple five-year plans if you're young. If you don't know which path you're going to take, create five different scenarios for yourself and see which one energizes you most. Financial freedom is a goal worth stating. Erin wants to be financially free in the next five years, which allows her to pursue mission-driven work on her own terms. You're just another human trying to figure it out. Even though Erin wrote the book on workplace communication, she's still winging it every day just like everybody else. Combat the knowledge curse by staying connected to real people. When you're an expert in something, it's hard to imagine not being an expert. Erin moved back to Maryland suburbs to experience people working normal corporate jobs, DMs with people daily about their experiences, and gets on free calls just to listen. The data in newsletters tells a different story than people's actual experiences, so she stays grounded by hearing real anecdotes from IT workers in North Carolina or nurses in Kentucky. Set goals really high. Erin wants her startup to help 500,000 job seekers in a year, which is ambitious, but she doesn't care if she fails as long as she tries to reach it. More Learning #507 - Jesse Cole: How to Build Your Idea Muscle #344 - Jesse Cole: How to Create "You Wouldn't Believe" Moments #365 - James Altucher: How to Become An Idea Machine Reflection Questions

1. Good communication is chess, not checkers. Think about a difficult conversation you need to have this week. Instead of just reacting to what they say, what's your desired outcome? What would "checkmate" look like, and how can you think 10 steps ahead to get there?
   
2. Who in your life keeps you humble If no one does, how might you be losing perspective on yourself? What would it look like to invite that kind of honest feedback into your life?
   
3. Erin recommends making a five-year plan, not to stick to it, but because the exercise creates new neural pathways. When's the last time you sat down and intentionally thought about what you want your life to look like in five years? What's stopping you from doing that this week?

Go to www.LearningLeader.com The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My Guest: Jesse Cole is the owner of the Savannah Bananas. He went $1.8 million in debt, slept on an air mattress, and built a business that is now valued at over a billion dollars. I spent half a day with Jesse in Savannah watching practice, and Jesse gave me a personal tour of their entire operation. It was incredible. Notes: Fans First - The sign is on every locker. And leading out to the field, "Tonight is someone's first time seeing our show." Obsessed/Focused - Banana Ball/Serving people is his life. We didn't talk about hobbies, TV shows, or anything other than what they're doing now and in the future. He's obsessed with what he does and super focused. Transparent - Jesse just released their full P&L as a private company: revenue, expenses, player salaries, everything. Most businesses guard this religiously. He's completely transparent. I asked why, and he said, "Fans first. They deserve to know everything." Reps - We went to the field to watch practice. It looked just like a game. Players were dancing all the time. And every single rep they practiced as a trick play (behind the back, through the legs, etc.). They never play normal baseball. You wonder how they are so good on gameday at doing a backflip while catching a fly ball. Because they practice it thousands of times without fans so that when they're there, they put on a great show. Hiring – "Love your people more than you love your customer." 12,000 people on the waitlist to work for the Bananas. When you hire, have them do a "fans first" essay. Then they write a future essay.  Always Be Caring, Different, Enthusiastic, Fun, Growing, & Hungry Fans First: The Counter-Intuitive Decision - Jesse sacrificed $6 million in ticket revenue after a system messed things up for fans.  Merch – 787,000 fans purchased merchandise in 2025, totaling 1.96 million total items. That means the average person is purchasing ~2.5 items at checkout, with 80% of total sales taking place in person. 621,000 at live shows versus 166,000 online. It's a $50m business! TV: The Distribution Strategy - Giving Away Value - Jesse insisted on free YouTube streaming even when ESPN wanted exclusivity. Jesse is building a zero-profit secondary ticket market. He's literally giving away things other sports properties would monetize. So, even with all of the team's games still airing for free on YouTube, the Bananas averaged 500,000 viewers on ESPN, The CW, and Roku. The team's most-watched broadcast was a July 4th game at Fenway Park, which averaged 837,000 viewers on ESPN, making it the holiday weekend's most-watched primetime sports broadcast. TV networks want exclusivity, but you demand that the games still be broadcast for free on YouTube (in addition to whatever channel they are on) Social Media - The Bananas added 12.7 million new social media followers in 2025 alone. That pushes their total social media following across all channels north of 35 million... Roughly 2x more followers than MLB's most popular team, the Yankees, at 18 million. You have to believe something before you achieve something. Six years ago, Jesse said, "We're gonna sell out Fenway Park," and his team looked at him like he was crazy (they were a college summer baseball team, not even doing tours yet). You have to get through the messy to get to the great. Their first world tour was brutal: the sound was terrible, the show wasn't great, the game finished in the seventh inning because they didn't have a rule to make it go nine innings. See what's best for the guest, not what's best for the business. Walt Disney was the first to go into full-length animation, color, sound, and with Disneyland, he focused on one entrance to control the experience, custom rides, and invested in a castle and landscaping, which made no money. Go where others won't go. Sam Walton went to small towns, and no one paid attention to him for the first five to ten years. It's somebody's first time every night. Fans wait three years on a waitlist to come to a game, so Jesse doesn't care if you're having a bad day. That's their first time. Control the entire experience. Walt learned he couldn't control the experience when people watched his movies at a theater (it could be dirty, and people might not be nice), so he built Disneyland. Who do we work for? Fans. Jesse opened the books completely (numbers, player salary, merch sales, everything) because they have a responsibility and accountability to their fans. We have to feel our mistakes. When they sent a wrong email to 44,000 fans instead of 4,000, it cost them $6 million to take care of those fans with tickets (more than the company brought in their first five years). We need to have bigger failures. If we're not trying things big enough, we won't have bigger failures and mistakes that cost us a lot more in the future. Turn mistakes into moments. After the $6 million email mistake, Jesse set up a Zoom call with all 44,000 people, had everyone turn their cameras on, and apologized while looking at every single person. Build something you wish existed for yourself. Jesse played baseball until he couldn't anymore. He put so much pressure on himself that it wasn't fun anymore, and he was told he wasn't good enough. Design every second of the first-day experience. When players showed up, they went to a parking lot with a DJ at 8:30 AM. Three buses arrived with balloons, hundreds of people lined the streets cheering, Man-nanas served munchkins on silver platters, a custom hype video played, the host introduced from the roof, and fireworks went off. Every player has been told they're not good enough. All Bananas players have been drafted or been top college players, and at some point, they've all been rejected, cut, told to hang it up. Obsession is awesome. If you can find something you're obsessed with, so few people in the world get to have that. Watch the best of the best obsess over details. Derek Hough (one of the greatest dancers) wasn't just focusing on the dance; he was producing while dancing, telling the camera crew exactly where to come, when to hit him, and where he would wink. No one goes home excited about normal. No one says, "That restaurant was really normal, the waiter served it the same way, the food was pretty normal, the parking lot was normal." Whatever's normal, do the exact opposite. Normal gets normal results. There's a lot of normal in the world, but not a lot of extraordinary. Put yourself in the customer's shoes and eliminate friction. Where's the game tonight? On Amazon, Peacock, CBS, NBC? Jesse threw away millions to keep all games free on YouTube because that's a friction point. Your fans will reward you. The Bananas sold over 1.9 million merch items last year because they built something people are proud of and want to wear. If people don't want to wear your merch, you haven't made them feel something yet. One fan gets a new Bananas tattoo every year (he's got six logos on his leg now). Invest everything in the experience, spend zero on traditional marketing. Make the experience so good that fans will share with everyone that this is something they haven't experienced before. Social media growth came from trying and stumbling into learning. In 2016, an intern said he could create videos; they did a lip sync to "Can't Stop the Feeling" by Justin Timberlake. It wasn't even well-produced, but they tried. Give energy back because of how good it feels. A woman came up to Jesse on a cruise and said she was there because he gave her a hug at a Sacramento game the day after her sister died. She came on the cruise to give him a hug back. Do what gives you energy. Jesse's entire day is filled with things that give him energy: being with people, rehearsing shows, banana ball youth meetings, broadcast team, and talented writers. Have people who love to execute. You do what gives you energy and have them execute at a high level. Be very involved at the beginning (get the idea and vision right) and at the end (make adjustments).

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Go to www.LearningLeader.com This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My guest: Tom Hardin was known as "Tipper X" during Operation Perfect Hedge, the largest insider trading investigation in history. After making four illegal trades based on inside information, the FBI approached him on a Manhattan street corner and convinced him to wear a wire over 40 times, helping build 20 of the 81 cases. Key Learnings  Ambiguity is where ethical lines blur. Tom's boss said, "Do whatever it takes," after the hedge fund lost money, and as a junior employee, Tom didn't ask clarifying questions. The undiscussable becomes undiscussable. Leaders give ambiguous messages, then pretend they weren't ambiguous, employees get confused and don't question the boss, and you end up with a culture of silence. Making decisions in isolation is dangerous. The information came to Tom and he didn't talk to his boss or his wife (who probably would've slapped him around for crossing ethical lines). Psychological safety requires muscle memory. You have to practice saying "I'm just going to ask some clarifying questions here" when your boss gives ambiguous orders. Bad decisions aren't mistakes. Mistakes are made without intent, but bad decisions are made with intent. Tom told himself for years he made "mistakes," but on a drive home from speaking at a keynote, he realized: "There's no way I made mistakes. I made bad decisions." Never say never. Tom argues you're more susceptible to falling down your own slippery slope when you think "that would never be me." 80% of employees can be swayed either way. 10% are morally incorruptible, 10% are a compliance nightmare, and 80% can be influenced by the culture around them. Tone at the top means nothing. Company culture isn't the tone at the top or glossy shareholder letters; it's the behaviors employees believe will be rewarded or put them ahead. Reward character, not just results. You can't just focus on short-term performance and dollar goals without understanding how the business was made and what was behind the performance. The question isn't "what?" but "how?" If you're just focused on the numbers and not on how you got there, you have the opportunity to end up in a slippery slope situation. Celebrate people who live your values. Companies that spend millions on trips for people who live out shared values (not financial performance) are putting their money where their mouth is. Leaders must share their own ethical dilemmas. We've all been in situations where we could go left or right, and sharing how you worked through those moments makes you more endearing and a better leader. Keep a rationalization journal. When Tom and his wife have big decisions (or even little things), he writes them down in a rationalization journal and reflects on them once a month. He's still susceptible to going down another slippery slope, so checking himself on those passing thoughts improves his character over time. It's not what you say, it's what you do. Just like kids see what parents do (not what they say), employees see what behaviors leaders actually reward. $46,000 cost him $23 million. A business school professor calculated Tom would've made $23 million if he'd stayed on the hedge fund path, but he made $46,000 on the four illegal trades before getting caught. His wife was his rock. 85% of marriages end when something like this happens, and she had every right to leave. They just got married, no kids yet. But she stayed. When Tom interviewed her for the book 20 years later, she said, "All I remember is you accepted responsibility immediately. You didn't make up excuses." Running pulled him out of a shame spiral. Tom got obese as a stay-at-home dad. His wife signed him up for a 5K race (and beat him while pushing a jogging stroller). Just crossing that finish line lit a fire. He ended up running a 100-mile race.  Doing hard things teaches you that you can do hard things. When Tom had to start a speaking business because they were running out of money, he said, "I can do this" because he'd already put his body through ultramarathons. No challenge is insurmountable. He ended up with something better. It's not about status or money anymore; it's about who he is with his family and his relationships now. Windshield mentality, not rearview mirror. Tom can't change the past, but he can look forward instead of backward. A lot of people in their twenties do stupid stuff (maybe not to this degree), but now, in his forties, he can learn from it. Why not embrace it rather than try to scrub it off the internet? Eulogy virtues versus resume virtues. In his twenties, Tom only thought about resume virtues (how much money, the next job, the next stepping stone) and never about eulogy virtues (what people will say about his character when it's all over). What will people say at your eulogy? Will they still be talking about those four trades, or will they talk about who you became after? More Learning #226 - Steve Wojciechowski: How to Win Every Day #281 - George Raveling: Wisdom from MLK Jr to Michael Jordan #637 - Tom Ryan: Chosen Suffering: Become Elite in Life & Leadership Reflection Questions

1. Tom's boss gave him an ambiguous message ("do whatever it takes"), and as a junior employee, he didn't ask clarifying questions. Think about the last ambiguous instruction you received from leadership. Did you ask clarifying questions, or did you fill in the blanks yourself? What's stopping you from creating psychological safety to ask next time?
2. Tom argues that 80% of employees can be swayed either way by culture. Look at your organization right now. What behaviors are actually being rewarded? If someone asked your team "what gets you ahead here?" what would they honestly say?
3. Tom asks: "Will people be talking about the resume virtues (money, titles, achievements) or the eulogy virtues (character, relationships, who you were) when you're gone?" What's one eulogy virtue you need to start prioritizing today, even if it means slowing down on resume building?

Go to www.LearningLeader.com This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My guest: PJ Fleck is the head football coach at the University of Minnesota. Before that, he transformed Western Michigan from one win to 13 wins and a Cotton Bowl appearance. Before his coaching days, PJ was a stud receiver at Northern Illinois and was a guy I played against in college. Coach Fleck has built one of college football's most distinctive culture-driven programs. You'll hear why he maintains an 80-20 split favoring high school recruiting over the transfer portal, how he runs practice with a 32-second clock to make it harder than games, and why he sees himself as a cultural driver rather than a motivational coach. This is a conversation recorded with all of our coaches inside "The Arena." That is our mastermind group for coaches in all sports. And it did not disappoint. Notes: Stop recruiting, start selecting. PJ doesn't chase the highest-rated players... He looks for fit and alignment with his values. Ask yourself: Are you trying to convince people to join your team, or are you selecting people who already want what you're building? Efficiency beats duration. PJ runs 95-minute practices with a 32-second play clock, always moving, always intense. The principle: Make practice harder than the game. Where in your work are you confusing time spent with intensity and focus? Internal drive trumps external motivation. PJ calls his ideal players "Nektons," always attacking, never satisfied. He's looking for people who prove their worth to themselves, not to others. If you need constant external motivation, you're not ready for elite teams. A leader must teach and demand. A team member must prepare and perform. These aren't opposing forces—they're two sides of the same commitment to excellence. My junior year at Ohio University. I was the quarterback of the Ohio football team. We lost to No. 17 Northern Illinois 30-23 in overtime on a Saturday night. P.J. Fleck caught the game-tying 15-yard touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter. PJ finished with 14 catches for 235 yards and a touchdown. (I threw a 30-yard TD pass to Anthony Hackett to put us up a TD right before halftime). Let your team see you played. They do"Guess that Gopher" before team meetings, where players guess which coach's highlights they're watching. Give them a peek behind the curtain. It builds credibility and connection. PJ honors his mentor, Jim Tressel, by wearing a tie while coaching. Who are you honoring through your daily practices? Keep your door open. PJ has no secretary. Players can walk into his office at any moment. Create fluidity between you and your team. Transparency after tragedy is a choice. When PJ's son died from a heart condition, he had two options: never talk about it again, or let it shape him. He chose radical transparency, knowing it would get scrutinized. That's where "Row the Boat" comes from. A losing season reveals what you actually need. After going 1-11 at Western Michigan while also getting divorced, PJ says every coach should experience a losing season. It forces you to identify what you actually need versus what you don't need. Choose what scares you. When deciding on Minnesota, Heather asked him, "Does this scare you?" He said, "Hell yeah, it scares me." His response: "Well then, that's where we're going." Life versus living. Living is the salary and contract. Life is about moments and memory. If you can't stay in the moment and reflect on great moments or hard moments, life will be like mashed potatoes to you. Your expectations should match your resources. The gap between expectations and resources is called frustration. The bigger the gap, the more frustration from everyone around you. Maintain an 80/20 model if you can. 80% high school players, 20% transfer portal. PJ has one of the highest retention rates in the country because of selection and fit, not recruiting. "It's not about the money until it's about the money." The kids' PJ gets value for other things before the money talk. They enjoy the experience of being a college athlete. PJ leads with "I'm really difficult to play for." PJ's opening line to recruits. He asks for a lot. This makes people who are lazy, complacent, or fraudulent run like hell. "This is going to expose me." Start with good people, not good players. Out of 500 kids, who are the best 25 young men? PJ doesn't get five stars. He gets two and three stars who believe they can be five stars. A chip versus a crack on your shoulder. Once you do something the media says you couldn't do, they'll set a new bar. All PJ wants is kids who want to prove to themselves that they can do what people say they couldn't. You don't need PJ's personality. You need the internal drive to be the best version of yourself. That's what he's selecting for. "I'm not a motivational coach. I'm a cultural driver." PJ picks their "how." He picks their journey. If someone needs constant motivation, they're not ready. Peel back the Instagram filter. Everything you see on social media is filtered. You have to dig deeper with this generation to find out who they really are. Hire former players back. PJ's staff has more former players who played for him than ever before. They cut their teeth in the building. In this transactional era, former players help you stay transformational. The HYPRR System. This is PJ's hyperculture framework he created after going 1-11: H (How): The people. Nektons who always attack. How you do one thing is how you do everything. Consistency matters. Y (Yours): Your vision. It's YOUR life, not anyone else's vision. Players are the builders. Don't tell me you want an extravagant home and then hire bad builders. P (Process): The work. The who, what, when, where, and why. Anyone should be able to ask those questions at any point. R (Result): Focus on the HYP. It's not the officials' fault. It's not the other team's fault. R (Response): How will you respond to the result? Don't believe the hype. Everything about hype is before the result happens. Focus on How, Yours, and Process instead. Someone will take what you were taught was horrible and create a business model. PJ uses Uber and Airbnb as examples. We were taught "stranger danger" as kids. Now we get in cars with strangers while drunk and sleep in their homes. The right people plugged into crazy visions can change everything. Define success as peace of mind. That's how PJ's program defines success. Not wins and losses. Train body language. "Big chest" means standing up straight. Players are not allowed to put their hands on their knees or their heads. If you can't hold yourself up, trainers need to check on you. Teach response, not reaction. You can have emotions, but train to not be emotional. The real world wants to see you react. Train to respond properly in every situation. Your words have power. PJ's players know the definitions of 150 words that will help them for the rest of their lives. Give substance to the filters. That's your job as an educator. Cut all the fat off practice. PJ was from the era of 3.5-hour practices. He has ADD and needs to move. He got bored as a player, so he vowed to run practice differently. Run a 32-second play clock constantly. Every 32 seconds, you run a play. You are always under the two-minute warning in practice. This trains your team to operate under pressure. Never practice longer than 95 minutes. It's one thing to watch as a recruit. It's another to experience it as a player. Kids puke during dynamic warmup in the first week because it's that intense. Make practice harder than the game. The game will eventually slow down for your players if practice is legitimately harder. Nektons flow through water currents without being affected. Don't let circumstances dictate behavior. Train this mindset daily. The biggest jump in sports is from high school to college. 17-year-olds playing against 24-year-olds. It's not just talent. It's experience, development, strength, and confidence all at once. Never let any environment be too big for your coaches. Train your staff to be comfortable in all situations, not just your players. Always be learning outside your field. PJ attends leadership seminars with SEALs and Green Berets. At one dinner, a retired military officer who looked like Sean Connery scanned the room quietly, then said: "I'm taking in all the good in the room. I'm also coming up with a plan to kill every one of you, in case I need to." He never came back to the table because he got called to active duty and left for Afghanistan. Always be ready. That's what makes you special. Watch to learn. PJ watched "Landman" and took notes on how to run the next team meeting. His wife hates that he can never relax. Find teaching and education in everything you do. When you stop, you stop growing. Get better at celebrating. PJ has a great bourbon and champagne collection. He celebrates more than he ever has. Balance the intensity with moments of joy. Make transformational programs real. Gopher for Life program. Monthly educational courses. Monthly date nights where players bring their dates and learn dinner etiquette. Monthly racial education class. Weekly coach development on Thursdays, where coaches speak on any topic to advance their careers. Don't let important things stop when the news cycle moves on. COVID and racism got put in the same bracket. When COVID stopped, racism education stopped everywhere. No

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Dan Coyle is a New York Times bestselling author who's spent the last two decades studying what makes great teams great. He wrote The Talent Code, The Culture Code, and now Flourish—books that have shaped how millions of people think about skill development, team culture, and meaningful connection. He works with the Cleveland Guardians as a special advisor on culture and performance. We recorded this one together in Cleveland. Notes: Find your yellow doors. Most of us go through life looking for green doors (clearly open paths) and red doors (obviously closed paths). But yellow doors are different. They're out of the corner of your eye, things that make you uncomfortable or feel brand new. That's where life actually happens. We think life is a straight line from A to B to C, but it's not. Life isn't a game... It's complex, living, shifting. Yellow doors are opportunities to create meaningful connections and explore new paths. "Life deepens when we become aware of the yellow doors, the ones we glimpse out of the corner of our eye." The craft journey always involves getting simpler. Simple is not easy. The great ones have their craft to where there's a simplicity to it. In this world of clutter and noise, it's easy to want to compete with energy and speed, but the stuff that really resonates is quieter and simpler. Be a beginner again in something. With climbing, Dan's at the very bottom of the craft mountain. With writing, he's somewhere in the middle. It's fun to have a couple of zones in your life where you're a beginner. It's liberating, but it also develops empathy. Some stuff looks very simple, but isn't. Every good story has three elements. There's some desire (I want to get somewhere), there's some obstacle (this thing standing in my way), and there's some transformation on that journey. Teaching teaches you. Coaching Zoe's writing team helped Dan, and then Zoe ended up coaching Dan. It was never "let me transmit all my wisdom to my daughter." It was a rich two-way dialogue that helped both of them. Suffering together is powerful. Doing hard things together with other people, untangling things together (literally and figuratively), and being vulnerable together. That's culture code stuff. Whether it's skiing with your kids, seeing them fall and get back up, or being trapped underground like the Chilean miners. Behind every individual success is a community. Dan dedicates all his books to his wife, Jenny (except one). Growing up, he had this idea of individual success, individual greatness. But when you scratch one of those individual stories, what's revealed is a community of people. Jenny is the ecosystem that lets Dan do what he does. Going from writing project to writing project, hoping stuff works out, exploring... it's not efficient. It's not getting on the train to work and coming home at five o'clock. It's "I think I need to go to Russia" or "I need to dig into this." She's been more than a partner, an incredible teammate.  Great organizations aren't machines; they're rivers. The old model of leadership is the pilot of the boat, the person flipping levers who has all the answers. That's how most of us grew up thinking about leaders. But Indiana football, the SEALs, Pixar... when you get close to these organizations, they're not functioning like machines. Machines are controlled from the outside and produce predictable results. These organizations are more like energy channels that are exploring. They're like rivers. How do you make a river flow? Give it a horizon to flow toward (where are we going?), set up river banks (where we're not gonna go), but inside that space create energy and agency. Questions do that. Leaders who are good at lobbing questions in and then closing their mouth... that's the most powerful skill. Great teams have peer leaders who sacrifice. Since Indiana football's fresh in our minds... Peer leaders who sacrifice for the team are really big. Fernando Mendoza got smoked, battered, hammered, and he kept going without complaint. In his interview afterward, he talks about his teammates. That's the DNA of great teams. Adversity reveals everything. The litmus test: in moments of terrible adversity, what's the instinct? Are we turning toward each other or away from each other? You could see it in that game. The contrast between the two teams. When things went bad, they responded very differently. The coach isn't as important as you think. Coaches can create the conditions for the team to emerge, but great teams sometimes pit themselves against the coach. The US Olympic hockey team of 1980 would be an example. They came together against Herb Brooks. So coaching sets the tone, but it's not as big a part of DNA as people think. Curiosity keeps great teams from drinking their own Kool-Aid. The teams that consistently succeed don't get gassed up on their own stuff. They don't believe in their success. They're not buying into "now I'm at the top of the mountain, everything's fine." They get curious about that next mountain, curious about each other, curious about the situation. They're willing to let go of stuff that didn't work. Honor the departed. When someone gets traded in pro sports, it's like death. Their locker's empty like a gravestone. What the coach at OKC does: on the day after somebody gets traded, he spends a minute of practice expressing his appreciation for that person who's gone. How simple and human is that? How powerful? What makes people flourish is community. It's not a bunch of individuals that are individually together. Can they connect? Can they love their neighbor and support their neighbor? That's magical when it happens. The Chilean miners created civilization through rituals. 33 men, 2,000 feet underground, trapped for 69 days. The first couple hours went as bad as it could. People eating all the food, scrambling, yelling. Then they circled up and paused. The boss took off his helmet and said, "There are no bosses and no employees. We're all one here." Their attention shifted from terror and survival to the larger connection they had with each other. They self-organized. Built sleeping areas, rationed food, created games with limited light. Each meal they'd share a flake of tuna at the same time. When they got contact with the surface, they sang the Chilean national anthem together. They created a little model civilization that functioned incredibly well. Stopping and looking creates community. What let the miners flourish wasn't information or analysis. It was letting go. Having this moment of meaning, creating presence. All the groups Dan visited had this ability in all the busyness to stop and ask: What are we really about? What matters here? What is our community? Why are we here? What is bigger than us that we're connected to? They grounded themselves in those moments over and over. Getting smart only gets you so far. There's a myth in our culture that individuals can flourish. You see someone successful and think "that individual's flourishing." But underneath them, invisibly, they're part of a larger community. We only become our best through other people. We have a pronoun problem: I, me, when actually it's we and us. Self-improvement isn't as powerful as shared improvement. Ask energizing questions. "What's energizing you right now?" is a great question. "What do you want more of?" "What do you want to do differently?" (not "what are you doing poorly"). "Paint a picture five years from now, things go great, give me an average Tuesday." What you're trying to do is get people out of their narrow boredom, let go a little, surrender a little, open up and point out things in the corner of their eye. When things go rough, go help somebody. Craig Counsell on how to bounce back when you're having a bad day: "I try to go help somebody." That's it. Create presence conditions. The ski trips, the long drives, the shared meals, no phones. Schedule them. This is how connection happens, whether it's with your family or your people at work. Leaders who sustain excellence are intensely curious. Dan walked into the Guardians office expecting to pepper them with questions. The opposite happened. Jay, Chris, and Josh kept asking him question after question, wanting to learn. Leaders who sustain excellence have this desire to learn, improve, get better. Ask better questions. Actually listen. Ask follow-up questions. Curiosity is also the ultimate way to show love. Reflection Questions

1. Dan says yellow doors are "out of the corner of your eye, things that make you uncomfortable or feel brand new." What's one yellow door you've been walking past lately? What's stopping you from opening it this week?The Chilean miners' boss took off his white helmet and said, "There are no bosses and no employees."
2. Think about a moment of adversity your team is facing right now. Are you turning toward each other or away? What's one specific action you could take this week to help your team turn toward each other? Dan emphasizes we have a "pronoun problem" (I, me vs. we, us) and that "self-improvement isn't as powerful as shared improvement."
3. Who are the 2-3 people you could invite into your growth journey right now? What would it look like to pursue excellence together instead of alone?

Go to www.LearningLeader.com to learn more This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My guest: Brad Stulberg is a bestselling author and leading expert on sustainable performance and well-being. He's written for The New York Times, Outside Magazine, and The Atlantic, and his previous books include Peak Performance and The Practice of Groundedness. His latest book, The Way of Excellence, is great. Brad's writing combines cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, and stories from world-class performers to help people do their best work without losing themselves in the process. Notes: Never pre-judge a performance. When you're feeling tired, uninspired, or off your game, show up anyway. Remember the Beatles scene—they looked bored and exhausted, but Paul still wrote "Get Back" that day. You don't know what's possible until you get going. Discipline means doing what needs to be done regardless of how you feel. As powerlifter Layne Norton says, we don't need to feel good to get going... We need to get going to give ourselves a chance to feel good. Stop waiting for motivation. Start moving and let the feeling follow. Audit who you're surrounding yourself with. The Air Force study is striking: the least fit person in your squadron determines everyone else's fitness level. If you sit within 25 feet of a high performer at work, your performance improves 15%. Within 25 feet of a low performer? It declines 30%. Your environment isn't neutral... Choose wisely. Treat curiosity like a muscle. It's a reward-based behavior that gets stronger with use. When Kobe said he played "to figure things out," he was tapping into the neural circuitry that makes learning feel good and builds upon itself. Ask more questions. Stay curious about your craft. Excellence isn't about perfection or optimization... It's about mastery and mattering. It's about showing up consistently, surrounding yourself wisely, and staying curious along the way. To the late Robert Pirsig - one of the greatest blessings and joys and sources of satisfaction in my life is to be in conversation with your work. He's the author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance— "gumption is the psychic gasoline that keeps the whole thing going." Arrogant people are loud. Confident people are quiet. Confidence requires evidence. The neural circuitry associated with curiosity is like a muscle: it gets stronger with use. Curiosity is what neuroscientists call a reward-based behavior. It feels good, motivates us to keep going, and builds upon itself. Kobe didn't play to win. He played to learn and grow. Kobe Bryant said he didn't play not to lose, and he didn't even play to win. He played to learn and to grow. He said the reason he did that is because it's so much more freeing. If you're really trying not to lose, you're going to be tight. If you're really trying to win, you're going to be tight. But if you're just out there to grow, you're going to be in the moment. When you're in the moment, you give yourself the best chance of having the performance you want. The word compete comes from the Latin root word com, which means together, and petere, which means to seek, rise up, or strive. In its most genuine form, competition is about rising together (Caitlin Clark's story against LSU). Love: The Detroit Lions had just won their first playoff game in 32 years. Following the game was a scene of pure jubilation. During a short break from the celebrating, the head coach, GM, and quarterback all gave brief speeches. Which collectively lasted about 2 minutes. During those 2 minutes, the word LOVE was repeated 7 times. Homeostatic regulation -- Sense it in the greatness of others and when you're at your best. What Brad calls "excellence." Surround yourself with people who have high standards. When things don't go your way, when you're inevitably heartbroken or frustrated, it's the people around you, the books you read, the art around you, the music you listen to, that's the stuff that speaks to you and keeps you going. It keeps you on the path even amidst the heartbreak. Process goals work better than outcome goals for most people. If you're an amateur, you should be process-focused. When I train for powerlifting, I don't think about the meet that I'm training for. I think about showing up for the session today. If I think about the meeting, I get anxious, and my performance goes down. But if you're Steph Curry and you've been doing your thing for 20 years, you can think about winning the gold medal because your process is so automatic. For 99% of people, focus on the process. "Brave New World" turns fear into curiosity. When you walk up to a bar loaded with more weight than you've ever touched, there can be fear about what it's going to feel like. If you go up to the bar with fear, you're going to miss the lift. If you're convinced you're going to make it, you'll make it, but your nervous system knows when you're lying to yourself. The middle ground is curiosity. Instead of saying "that's heavy, it's scary," I say "Brave New World. I've never touched this weight before. I have no idea what's going to happen, but let's find out." It splits the difference. I'm hyped, I'm giving myself a chance, I'm not lying to myself, but I'm also not scared. Curiosity and fear cannot exist at the same time in the brain. There are seven pathways in the brain defined by affective neuroscientist Jaak Panksepp. Two of those pathways are the rage/fear pathway and the seeking/curiosity pathway. These pathways cannot be turned on at the same time. They compete for resources. It's a zero sum game. You cannot simultaneously be raging and curious. You cannot be terrified and curious at the same time. If you get into a mindset of curiosity, it's extremely hard to be angry or terrified. By being curious, we turn off the fear deep in our brains and give ourselves a chance to perform our best. Practice curiosity in lower-consequence situations first. Curiosity is like a muscle. If you're about to do something absolutely terrifying and you're really scared and you say, "I'm just going to be curious," you know you're lying to yourself. You have to practice in lower-consequence situations first. When you, as a paren,t get really upset with your kid, try to be curious about their experience. Watch your anger calm down. When you as a leader, have a board presentation where you're feeling anxious, try to have that mindset of "Brave New World." When you're an athlete going into a big game obsessing about what could go wrong, try to be really curious instead. The best competitors have emotional flexibility. As a competitor, you would know that in the confines of the game, you're not singing Kumbaya, you are trying to kill them. Then you have the emotional flexibility the minute that game ends to respect them as a person. That is the best way to compete. That's when our best performances happen. It's not either/or, it's both/and. It's playing really hard, giving everything you can for the win, seizing on your opponent's vulnerability, at the same time as having deep respect for them. You don't have to be miserable to be excellent. There are people like David Goggins or Michael Jordan who seem motivated by anger and a chip on their shoulder. But Jordan would put his tongue out like this primal expression of joy when he was about to dunk. And Jordan won all his championships while being coached by Phil Jackson, the Zen master of compassion. There are the Steph Currys of the world, or Courtney Dauwalter (best ultra marathoner to ever exist), or Albert Einstein (total mystic who had so much fun in his work). There are two ways to the top of the mountain. For 99.999% of people, you end up performing better with fun and joy, and you have so much more satisfaction, which contributes to longevity. The best leaders take work seriously but laugh at themselves. The best leaders I know in the corporate world, they take the work so seriously. They are so intense. But my God, do they laugh at themselves and their colleagues and have fun. Reflection Questions

1. Brad says, "The things that break your heart are the things that fill your life with meaning." What are you currently holding back from caring deeply about because you're afraid of getting hurt? What would it look like to step fully into that arena despite the risk of heartbreak?
2. The Air Force study showed that sitting within 25 feet of a low performer decreases your performance by 30%. Honestly assess who you're spending the most time with right now. Are they raising your standards or lowering them? What specific change could you make this month to shift your environment?
3. Brad uses "Brave New World" to turn fear into curiosity before big challenges. Think of something coming up that makes you anxious. Instead of trying to convince yourself you'll succeed or dwelling on the fear, what does it feel like to approach it with pure curiosity: "I've never done this before. Let's find out what happens."

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for more This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader Jimmy Wales is the founder of Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. After his daughter Kira's birth faced medical challenges and he couldn't find reliable information online, Jimmy launched Wikipedia in January 2001. In this conversation, Jimmy shares why extending trust before it's earned creates better outcomes, how to deal with bad actors, and the seven rules for building things that last. Notes: Key Learnings (in Jimmy's words) Wikipedia launched 20 days after my daughter was born. When Kira was born, I realized that when you go on the internet, and you've got a question like, "what is this condition my daughter has?"  It just wasn't there. There were either random blogs or academic journal articles that were way above my head. Kira was born on December 26th, and I opened Wikipedia on January 15th.  Nupedia failed because of the seven-stage review process. Before Wikipedia, we worked on Nupedia. We recruited academics to write articles. You had to send in your CV showing you were qualified before you could write anything. We had very slow progress. I was on the verge of giving up. This top-down approach with a seven-stage review process before you publish anything that's no fun, and nobody's doing it. We let anyone edit and figured we'd add structure later. We thought we'd have to figure out who the editor-in-chief of the chemistry section is. You're gonna have to have some kind of authority and hierarchy. But I thought, let's just not have too much structure for as long as possible.  "It's fun. You could be the first person to create a page." There was a point in time when you could write, "Paris is the capital of France". That's amazing. It's not much of an encyclopedia article, but it was fun. It's like, oh, we can just start documenting whatever we know. People started just doing all kinds of stuff. The magic is when you come back and see others improving your work. You could just write a few facts down and hit save, and it's not very good yet. But you'd go back a few days later and see somebody dug in, and they added more information. That element has always been really important. Is it fun? Do you enjoy the activity? Do you meet interesting people? You spend one afternoon, you add a few facts, and then you think, you know what? The world's just ever so slightly better. Trust is conditional, not naive. Out of every thousand people, probably a small handful are gonna be really annoying. But it's really rare to have somebody who's actually malicious. The idea of assuming good faith, as we call it in Wikipedia, is extending trust first before it's been earned. It's conditional. You extend that friendly hand of trust. And if the person proves themselves to be super problematic, then you have to deal with it. To get trust, give trust.  Most people are decent. It also creates an environment where trustworthy behavior is rewarded. As a boss, wouldn't it be fantastic if you said, I'm going to go off and do this other thing, but I just trust my people are so good, they're gonna crack on with the work? Sometimes they'll make a call I would've made differently. That's okay. They're smart. Sometimes they're going to get it better than I did. "You haven't earned my trust." When somebody looks you dead in the eye and says, "You haven't earned my trust," that's destruction. It's the opposite of building a culture where people can thrive.  Extending trust works in parenting, too. When teenagers say, "Well, it doesn't matter what I do, they're going to think the worst anyway, so I might as well do the bad thing." That's really unfortunate. As opposed to saying to your teenager, "Yeah, you want to go out and stay a little later than before. I want you to do that. I trust you, but you gotta do it the right way." You give that trust and believe me, they come home right on time because this is my chance to actually nail this. Give your children an opportunity to live up to building trust.  When trust is broken, you can rebuild it faster than you think. Frances Fry is a Harvard professor who had a huge job at Uber when they had an enormous crisis of trust. People say once you've broken trust, that's it, you can never get it back. But is it really true? No, it's actually not true. She thinks companies can rebuild trust faster than you think. A teenager who's broken a rule can rebuild trust pretty quickly. And our job is to let them rebuild that trust.  The eighth rule is walk the walk. The rules of trust aren't just a lot of good words. You actually have to walk the walk. If you say "I screwed up" and you own that, but then you go back to being the same as you were before, you're not going to rebuild trust. But if you walk the walk, people will see that.  Airbnb rebuilt trust by walking the walk. Really early in Airbnb's history, someone rented out their apartment and came home and it was absolutely trashed. Airbnb handled it very badly. They were stonewalling. In this era, that's often the wrong advice. Not saying anything just means it goes viral. So they ripped off the band-aid. They said, Look, we screwed this up. They started requiring ID's for people renting apartments out, ID's from customers, and substantial insurance for owners. They walked the walk. Transparency doesn't mean sharing everything; it means sharing the process. If people can see your workings, they can see what you're doing and how it works, it gives them assurance in the process. It's about judgment calls. What would be helpful for us to share so people can trust the whole process?  If you think people are fundamentally rotten, you can't work with them. It's very easy when we look at the state of the world to be downtrodden, cynical, and don't trust anybody. If you think people on the other side of you politically or people at your workplace are fundamentally just rotten people, then you're going to have a hard time listening to them. You're going to have a hard time understanding where they're coming from. You're not going to do the right things that make sense to people. Which hurts all of society.  When you've been beaten up by life, change the channel. If you work somewhere where your boss doesn't trust you and your coworkers are all backstabbing freaks, it's time to change the channel. Every night, you should be trying to find a better position. Your number one criteria in looking for that next position is finding somebody who you think is a proper person to be your manager. Think of it as you're interviewing the company just as much as they're interviewing you. When you give trust, you attract trustworthy people. When you become known as a person who gives trust before it's earned, you magically attract trustworthy people. It's kind of cool how it works. Will you get burned every once in a while? Maybe. But you attract the type of people that you wanna be around. Curiosity is the ultimate love language. Get out there in the world and be curious. Asking people questions and being genuinely curious about their stories and learning about them and asking follow-up questions is a great way to show love and to connect with people. When you find yourself in a curiosity conversation where everyone's asking and learning, and they're head nodding and into it, there's nothing better. That's human nature connecting. We are born to connect and collaborate with others. It's quite easy and natural for people to fit into whatever culture is around them. We naturally like to work together to build something good. We're social, and we like to be social. We collaborate to build experiences together. A party with only yourself is not a party. Do what you love, even if it takes time to get there. One of the things that I think is really important is do what you love, do something that you really care about. Oftentimes for young people, there's this struggle between here's the thing that I really want to be doing, and here's the thing that's going to make me some money. Work really hard to find a way to put those together.  Reflection Questions

1. Jimmy says extending trust before it's earned creates better outcomes, but it requires not being naive when someone proves untrustworthy. Think of a situation where you're withholding trust. Is it because of actual evidence that this person is untrustworthy, or are you bringing baggage from past experiences with different people? What would it look like to extend conditional trust in this situation?
2. If you're in a leadership position, honestly assess: are there team members who feel you don't trust? What specific actions could you take this week to demonstrate trust before they've "earned" it in the traditional sense?

More Learning #605 - Seth Godin: The Power of Remarkable Ideas #598 - Sam Parr: Bold, Fast, Fun (Founder of The Hustle) #645 - Ryan Petersen: Take Action - From Crisis to Solution Audio Pod Timestamps 02:07 Jimmy Wales' Early Fascination with Encyclopedias 04:28 The Birth of Wikipedia 07:35 The Trust Factor in Wikipedia 12:04 Managing Bad Actors on Wikipedia 15:28 Personal Ref

Go to www.LearningLeader.com to learn more... This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My Guest: Mike Deegan just led Denison University Baseball to their first College World Series appearance in program history. He's been named Coach of the Year in back-to-back years and is the all-time winningest coach in school history. In this conversation, Mike shares how he uses Mudita to build culture, how to help people get out of slumps, and why discipline and consistency are superpowers. Key Learnings (in Mike's words) Mudita is a vicarious joy. Can I be happy for another's success as if it's my own? To me, that is like the secret sauce of life. Obviously, in a sports team, not everyone can be the star. One of the biggest misconceptions is that the star rotates. Yeah, you need a superstar to compete at the highest levels, but to win, you're going to need pinch runners, you're going to need the guy laying a big block. It's going to take everyone. It's really celebrating everyone's contribution. In recruiting, I ask parents: Can you be happy for another kid's success as if it's your own? If your neighbor gets a new car, are you happy for them? Or do you say, "Oh, I wish. I bet his parents bought that for him." There are just different ways to show up for people, where you can just have joy. By pouring yourself into others, especially in sports, I think it frees you up to perform your best.  Envy is a natural feeling. I don't want anyone to feel that envy from me. I think what we're saying is that envy is a natural feeling. Wanting to do great yourself, those are very natural, and I want people to live in that space. But can we just stop it and be a little bit more intentional and just celebrate what other people are doing well? Spot the good first. As a consultant, there are two ways you can do things. One is to find the negative, and that's really easy to do. But I try to go and spot the good first. There's plenty of time to nitpick later on. Find some opportunities to help people grow.  People love to talk about themselves. My wife is very quiet, a great listener, and people love her. She has a million best friends, and no one knows it because she doesn't talk a whole lot. She just listens. If you can just listen and get people to talk about what they're passionate about, it's a life secret. You can tell when someone's really passionate about what they're doing, and you can tell when they're on the fence because they speed up when they talk, they get a little excited. Curiosity is a great way to show love. If you approach it from envy, we don't unpack the cool story. But if you lead with curiosity and not envy, it unpacks everything. I do think it takes a level of self-awareness and comfort in your own skin.  How to build self-awareness: Read, write, and get around wise people. If you read a decent amount, if you write (and that was my forcing function, to actually write and put thought to paper), and then get around wise people and just have conversations, I think you'll start building out the awareness of who you are and what you value.  A systems thinker builds frameworks that outlast individuals. It's someone who can build out frameworks that are built to put people and the organization in the best spot to win and be successful. It's a framework that outlasts individuals. Coaches may leave or players may leave, but if you have a system built out that it can sustain losing certain individuals, because things are cranking and you can repeat the work. You can do iterations and quickly test if you're getting closer or further from your goals. I almost try to talk people out of coming here. The most underrated thing in our recruiting is when they sit with me, I almost try to talk people out of coming here. I'll say, "Hey, what's the main driver?" If they say playing time, I'm like, "Hey, that's great. That's an awesome goal, but I wouldn't come here for that. We're going to play our best players. But that's not why you come to Denison. You come to be a part of something bigger than yourself, and there are all these other places where you're going to have a much better shot at that." I'm always listening in on what they value and trying to challenge it. Almost get people to self-select out. The better your culture is, you can take chances on people. It's like Randy Moss and the New England Patriots. Tom Brady was an alpha, and you could bring people in and take a risk and see if they can conform to the culture a little bit. When you have things in place, our locker room was phenomenal. People would say, "Hey, I don't know, this kid has some red flags." I'm like, "Red flags, like he's a serial killer? Or like red flag,s like he's super competitive?" The locker room would take care of a lot of that. If there's something built out that you feel pretty strongly about, I think you can take in some of these high-risk, high-reward people because they can't damage the culture like you would think they can. Early on in that tenure, I was very, very careful with this. But now we can take some chances on people if the DNA is right. The lack of seriousness pushed people out. When I took over, I'm the opposite of the guy I played for. And every time someone quit, I would just say thank you. And I meant that too because we were going in a certain direction. There was talent. It needed more seriousness. We had enough talent that it was going to allow us to compete at a conference level. I think it's amazing when you can just put boundaries and guardrails and point people in the right direction. We just provided a little structure, a little discipline. The DNA of great teams: Roles, sacrifice, discipline, leadership, joy. Everyone has a role and to beat objective expectations. When good meets good, you have got to understand that every role is essential to the cause. Status goes away. Second, we're in this together. There's no prima donna. I think that's what happens with championship teams. For us to compete on a national level, our guys do miss out on a lot. Grades may suffer. There are trade-offs with this thing. Then I hear discipline. Discipline and consistency is a superpower. The people that I see that really excel in the professional baseball world they seem to have a maturity about them at a much younger age. And that comes with discipline and consistency. Then leadership. There's going to be someone that's navigating the ship. In my beautiful world, it would be where that person's not an egomaniac. They're not in front. They're just waiting for everyone to get out. The last thing is joy. People tend to enjoy what they're doing. They do it with a smile on their face.  "Don't hire for when you think times are good. Hire for the person you wanna be around when times are bad because they're coming." An example of a great team outside of sports: The Chilean miners found roles quickly and stuck together. They had food for two days but rationed it out. They had a spiritual leader, medical guy, someone to keep them on task. Everyone had a specific role and they performed it. How you talk to your teammates is how you should talk to yourself. I had a conversation with a kid that I really admire on our team and I said, "Hey man, I never hear you talk to your teammates like you talk to yourself. Give yourself some grace." Being really hard on yourself can also be a cop out because there are ways to channel that. Sometimes people will say "I'm a perfectionist, or that's just who I am." Come on man. A perfectionist to me, they put an insane amount of work to earn the right to be. I think we use that term pretty lightly sometimes. Confidence is built through evidence. Ryan's self-talk before a keynote sounds like this, "What an opportunity to create some evidence."  How to help a hitter get out of a slump: Simplify and control the controllables. When a player's in a slump, they're probably working harder than they've ever worked in their life. But I think it's almost like they're working aimlessly. So what I try to do is simplify. I had a hitter once, he's trying everything.  I gave him one swing thought for two weeks. Just get the barrel to the ball. Don't worry about launch angle, don't worry about exit velo. Can you just put good wood on the ball? We're going to control what we can control. And slowly you start seeing some results and that evidence starts compounding and you get your mojo back. You gotta be intentional with your energy before high performance. As a coach, how you show up is going to be really, really important. I saw Texas A&M's coach say you have to be the opposite of what the moment requires. While everyone's excited, you need to be the calm. And then when the proverbial is hitting the fan, you have to be the one with optimism. Getting yourself in the right mental frame to handle high performance is required of a coach and a leader. Baseball teaches you to stay calm for three hours. You don't play baseball at 130 heartbeat. It's more of Can you get that thing down? And anything I do to increase it myself, I'm going against what it takes to be a successful player. People can think baseball is boring, but what you're seeing is people trying to stay calm for three hours.  Does that intensity actually lead to results? It's just basic

Go to https://www.LearningLeader.com for world-class notes This is brought to you by https://insightglobal.com/learningleader/. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Oz Pearlman is the greatest mentalist in the world. After leaving Wall Street to pursue his craft full-time, he's performed for Steven Spielberg's family, for Nobel laureates, and Fortune 500 CEOs. He ran a 2:23 marathon and holds the record for most laps around Central Park in a single day. With five kids and 250+ performances a year, Oz has mastered the art of reading people and understanding what separates good from world-class. Key Learnings (In Oz's words) Doug Anderson is the magician who got me into magic. When I was 13 years old, I went on a cruise with my parents. I got pulled up on stage and took part in a magic trick. (The sponge balls)  After the trick, my dad and I started creating theories on how the trick worked.  The people in every industry who make it to the top are the ones who are kind and respectful to others. As soon as you stop thinking that you can learn from others, you start dying.  What is the recipe for success? It's getting through the tough times. When I walked up to someone at a restaurant, and I'm 14, and I have a very fragile ego, after three tables in a row at differing levels of rudeness go by, "Dude, get outta here, man. Like, I don't wanna see this," it hurts. That's a painful thing to experience. I had to learn a defense mechanism very quickly because carrying that pain, pain turns into anger. When I get to the next table, I'm angry at the next group, even though they haven't done anything wrong to me. I realized to get my goal, I needed tougher, thicker skin. Deflect the rejection onto someone else.  Create separation between you and rejection. I created what I would call an agent in my own mind. When you're in showbiz, the conversations you don't wanna have, your agent has for you. I'm a 14-year-old doing restaurants. I don't have an agent, so here's what I decided. When they don't like me, they don't know me. They don't know Oz Pearlman. They know this guy Oz the magician, who walked up to them. Maybe my tricks aren't good enough. Maybe my approach wasn't good enough. Maybe they had a bad day at work or their kid's sick. I made it less about me, and I was able to deflect all of that pain and hurt to this other person. The fear of rejection is worse than the rejection itself. Once you experience rejection a few times, it's not that bad. It's like dating. It's a numbers game. You'll probably not meet your spouse on the first try. You gotta meet a whole lot of other people to realize what you like best in the person that hopefully ends up spending your life with. "Never let someone else be in charge of your destiny." When I do a gig, I don't wait for someone to go, "Oh man, that'd be great. Let me get your business card." I go, "Amazing. Let me get your number and your info. I'll have someone from my team call you." My team is you, me, myself, and I. There's no team. But it sounds fancier. Fake it till you make it. Branding is so important. When I went on America's Got Talent, I made a conscious decision to separate myself from the guy from the year before. (Matt Franco) He won. I thought we were too similar. I had to do something unique or do something better than anyone else. That's when I branded myself as a mentalist and not a magician.  Mentalism is much harder than magic to practice. Magic can be practiced in front of a mirror until you get almost perfect at a trick. Mentalism is near impossible to practice at home without an audience. It's like comedy. You can't tell jokes to a mirror and find out if they're funny. You need the audience to do it. Charm takes the sting out of so many things in life. It allows you to win people over quickly. What is charm? Just the ability to smile, to make someone laugh, to be vulnerable in a certain moment. That's a skill that's developed, and if you study it well, you can develop it quicker because everyone thinks it's natural. What I've learned from comedians:  It's the purest form of entertainment that exists. You, the audience, and a microphone. I think you start to get a feel for timing. Where to pause, what's funny, how to get people on your side. With a heckler, there's a very fine line between punching down and offending your audience versus having them on your side and laughing with you at someone as opposed to laughing at someone.  I'm a slightly more exaggerated version of myself when performing. The volume is turned up a little. The charisma is turned up a little, the ability to joke around, but it's me. I think that resonates. Walking into a room smiling, having no hesitation, connecting with somebody, remembering their name, giving them a compliment. Such easy, low-hanging fruit, separates you from 90% of other people if you can do them consistently and effectively and genuinely. "That's why he's Steven Spielberg." The Steven Spielberg lesson changed how I see success. I did Spielberg's dad's 99th birthday. At the end of it, Steven beelines to me and I'm ready. I thought I'd get 30 seconds. He talked to me for upwards of 20 minutes. He just asked question after question after question. When I left it was like a blur. I didn't ask Steven Spielberg a single question about Jaws, Close Encounters. I had all these things I wanted to ask him. I'm like, man, I totally screwed that up. But over time, the lesson got through to me. It wasn't about me. It wasn't what I was gonna ask him. It was about him. It was learning what makes him tick. No matter who you become, if you can make the other person feel like they're a star when they meet you, they will always remember that memory. Try to deflect. If people ask you questions, answer, but ask them something about themselves back that no one's asked them. Make them feel seen and heard. Make them feel like they are the star of your movie as well. Little things add up to big things over time. If you were to ask my kids what do I ingrain in them all the time? Gratitude and being polite. One of my secrets to success has always been being very polite. "Please, thank you. Always."  Write a thank-you note. When I was doing bar mitzvahs, birthday parties, I realized early on, when people are throwing a party, it's very stressful. The person hosting doesn't always have the greatest time. They're so worried about everyone else.  Create memorable moments. I would take a selfie with the bar mitzvah kid. I found this online service where I could instantly upload the photo. I would always give a compliment that was specific. I'd send these cards to them on Monday. The parties are usually on Saturdays. It would get there Tuesday or Wednesday. To this day, 15 to 20 years later, I'll get emails when I'm on TV from people being like, "I just dug up this card from 17 years ago. You were at Benjamin's Bar Mitzvah, and now he's 30 and has a kid of his own." Takes notes | Write everything down.  In today's day and age, there's a power in the human touch that still exists. Take notes, write stuff down. I'll leave a gig, I'll write some stuff down, I'll remember it. If I run into that person again in a month, in a year, in five years, I can literally look at my phone. It's literally like a mentalism trick to reveal that information to people even though they gave it to you already, because it shows you took the time. Some of the biggest things I've ever landed backtrack to small moments. ESPN, the thing that brought us together can backtrack to a Bar Mitzvah 18 years ago where I first met Adam Schefter. The first seed was planted, and I had to keep watering it, watering it, watering it. Small plant, small plant, until it grew into this thing. Now look at all the things that came from all the things I've done with ESPN, where Adam Schefter originated them.  You are interviewing for your next job every single day. You have no idea who might be in the audience. You have no idea, but you give it your all every single time. One time, Adam Schefter was in the audience. Intelligent people are often the easiest to fool. When intelligent people watch what I do, they're confident in their ability to figure it out. They think they're smarter than the average person, so they start looking for solutions. But that overconfidence creates blind spots. They're so focused on being right about how they think it's done that they miss what's actually happening. The more you think you know, the more vulnerable you become to being fooled because you're operating from assumptions rather than staying open to all possibilities. Reflection Questions
- Oz created an "agent in his mind" to deflect rejection away from his core self, making it about "Oz the magician" rather than Oz the person. What mental separation could you create to handle rejection or criticism more effectively in your professional life?

- Oz emphasizes that intelligent people are often the easiest to fool because they're confident in their ability to figure things out. In what areas of your life or work might overconfidence be blinding you to what's actually happening?

- Oz sends handwritten notes with specific compliments and a selfie to everyone he performs for.  What's one relationship in your network right now that could be strengthened with this level of intentional follow-up, and what specific compliment could you give that person?
More Learning https://learningleader.com/frankslootman525/ Hypergrowth Leadership

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Brian Kelly is the founder of The Points Guy, which he built from a side hustle blog into a travel media empire that he sold for $28 million. At 42, he's now an angel investor in 15+ companies, including Bilt (valued at $11 billion). In this conversation, he shares lessons on manifestation, selling too early, building yourself into the brand, and why vulnerability beats wins in interviews. Key Learnings (in Brian's words) In 1995, I was 12 years old, and I was great with computers, so I started booking all of my dad's travel for work. He'd pay me $10 per booking. Then it turned into points, when my dad showed me all the American and US Air miles he had. "If you can figure out how to use all of them, we can go on a family trip."  And the rest is history. That was my first real, oh wait, this points thing is amazing. Points were a way for us to live a fabulous lifestyle.  I grew up thinking we were poor, but I really wanted to live a fabulous life. My parents were very humble and did not spend money lavishly. For me I always wanted to travel. When I was a kid, I would spin the globe and be like, This is where I'm going. I would actually research Oman. Somehow genetically, I got this gene of I need to be rich and travel the world. I used to call Mercedes, get all of their glossy pamphlets for all their new cars, and I would cut them out and stick them on my wall.  Manifesting alone won't make you wealthy, but visioning helps. I do believe being able to visualize what it looks like and taste it and get close to it helps you take the smaller steps to actually achieve it. When I think of my investments, I actually envision what they're gonna be. I envision that they're multi-billion-dollar companies. I believe it unlocks a level of pushing you to reach these mini steps that you can't see throughout the process. I started The Points Guy in 2010, but there were already Titan bloggers. I for sure felt imposter syndrome, but I saw that what they lacked was creativity. Points and miles are very clinical. Very few people were translating that for an audience. I knew I had an opportunity. I'm in my twenties, living in New York City. I'm gonna explain what everyday people need to know. Building a media brand became my moat. No one else in the points world was doing media. Doing media's frightening. While it was scary going on TV the first couple times (I almost fainted), I knew that each time I did it, I got better. That was the moat I would build. I would build The Points Guy into a brand more so than any of the others who had come before me. I saw from the beginning to double and triple down on that strategy of building something that's more than just a blog, but a lifestyle that people want to achieve. "I made a million bucks in my first six months of just blogging, but using affiliate links." In 2011, within six months of learning about affiliate marketing, I made six figures a month using the credit card links in my blog.  I was still working at Morgan Stanley. My mom was like, this sounds too good to be true. You can't leave Morgan Stanley. I was making like $300,000 a month in affiliate. Meanwhile, at Morgan Stanley, my salary is $70,000 a year. But it didn't pay right away. My parents actually lent me $10,000 just to pay my rent. I remember where I was in Madrid when that first Chase deposit of $490,000 hit from months of back pay on the blog. I sold for $28 million because I thought the industry would collapse. When Bankrate offered me $28 million in May 2012, I kind of had this negative mindset over where the industry was going. About a hundred blogs started when people knew they could make money on affiliates. Most bloggers have zero business sense. They were writing stuff like, "Cancel your Amex, cancel your Chase, cancel, cancel. Then get new cards." I saw this really bad business sense, very shortsighted greediness. I'm watching this thinking they're gonna pull the rug. Do I regret selling? Yes, the company is way more than what I sold it for. But at the time, you always have to remember what the landscape was. We're coming out of the recession. There were still a lot of weak indicators. Building myself into the brand gave me leverage. I had a three and a half year earnout. Over that time, the business really started to grow, but then I realized, well, I am also the business. So, the more press I did, when I negotiated with that parent company to stay on, they paid me a lot of money and still a cut of the business to grow it as CEO. It's kind of crazy to think 13 years after selling, I'm still here. But because I built myself as a core part of the business as The Points Guy, I've been able to stay on with less risk, getting paid well to do what I love. I'm more of the brand visionary, the consumer person. I'm very much an ideas person. When we're speaking with our longtime clients or pitching new ones, that's really where my special sauce is used and not in the day-to-day. People are not mind readers. In 2020, I had this breakdown where I thought I would actually leave. I went to the owners, and I was like, I just can't do it anymore. They said, "Brian, we've been waiting for you to say that. You don't need to be CEO. We have plenty of smart people." It was this aha moment. I think in life we often think polar, black or white. That's advice I give to people. Whether it's your parent company, your boss, your mentor, people are not mind readers. While there is risk to leveling with someone and saying, "Hey, this role is just killing me," more often than not in my career, the more vulnerable I was, the more it turned out to be such a blessing. Check Your Spam Email Frequently: In 2011, I was featured in the New York Times, but the email came to my spam email. At that time, the narrative that points were dead, blackout dates, etc. I was the only blogger putting a positive spin on points. And I tried to do it in an informative and fun way. I'm 6'7", so putting my personal angle on my travel reviews had a huge impact on being the face of this industry.  As a founder, I was a tough boss because it was so personal. If I look back at my time as CEO, I still took it very personally. I do take the integrity of this site. As we expand, we can't forego quality. In hindsight, I didn't highlight enough of the wins. I would focus too much on mistakes. That's advice I would give if I could do it all back over again, to just be much more positive reinforcement over negative. Founders need someone who can check them. You need to have someone around you, a leadership team, someone that can check you. I didn't have that for a very long time, and that's my fault. Making sure you have good people on your team that can be honest with you, and you create an environment of inviting that feedback and not freaking out when they give it to you, is important. I know I would be a much different CEO today if I did it again. Stop BSing in the interview process. Too many people take jobs not knowing what is going on whatsoever at the company. Far too many senior executives walk into positions and they're like, oh wait a minute. I like to be brutally honest in the interview process. Truth-telling is the beginning of having a great relationship because I want you to understand exactly what's in front of you. If you don't want to take it, that's so much better than hiring a senior exec and six months later, you just lost a year. Stop telling me the wins. In the interview process, stop telling me the wins because anyone can make their job look successful. "Oh, 200% ROI, this, that the other." In an interview, you're not gonna be able to fact-check any of this. We all know people can cherry-pick the data. It's really just diving deep into vulnerable moments about their leadership, the challenges as leaders they had with their teams. I'll tell them my challenges when I was CEO. I want people to be real and allow me to understand how they think, the type of leader they are. Charismatic people can trick you. The problem is that very charismatic people can trick you easily. I've been blinded by a great interview, especially when you're exhausted as a CEO and then someone's bantering with you. You're like, oh, that was fun. But I've hired plenty of people who are all talk.  I don't want personality hires. I'm the personality. My engineering team, I really need people to ship updates. I still wake up in the middle of the night asking if my bills are paid. I still have imposter syndrome about "is this crazy what I've built?" It's for sure not about the car, but I will say investing in a home that's beautiful and makes you feel really good is important. For a long time, I was traveling a lot. I never put roots down, and I always felt like I was in transit. Now I have this beautiful farm with animals and horses in New Hope, Pennsylvania. It takes my blood pressure down immediately. Angel investing has basically become an addiction. In 2020, I opened up a space where I decided I wanted to have kids even though I was single, and also started investing and advising in relevant companies. The first one was Encore Jane, who was building Built, a credit card loyalty platform for renters. I'd always thought, how cool would it be to earn points on rent? I said, You're crazy, but if it does work, it'll be massive. Built is now at $11 billion valuation. I'll make more money now, probably on Built than I will at The Points Guy, which is wi

Go to https://www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by https://insightglobal.com/learningleader/. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Nick Gray is the author of The Two-Hour Cocktail Party and founder of Museum Hack. He's mastered the art of hosting events that strengthen networks and build genuine connections. In this conversation, he shares practical systems for hosting gatherings, why every leader needs a personal website, and lessons learned from his viral blind date trip to Tokyo. The Learning Leader Show Key Learnings Two Great Ice Breaker Questions: 
- What's a compliment that someone has given you that you've never forgotten about? 
- If you could teach any class about a topic that you're an expert on, what would it be?
The power of a network is real: As a leader, you're probably hiring people regularly or looking for investors. By hosting simple, lightweight meetups or dinner parties, or happy hours once a quarter, you can strengthen your network, build it, and keep those loose connections or weak ties warm. Mix professional and personal contacts: For me, a really boring event would be all work people. Look for occupational diversity. If you're hosting a work event, invite some other random folks who you know are gonna be good conversationalists and add to the energy. Don't reach for the top shelf first. Most important advice for leaders: do not invite your most impressive contact to your very first happy hour or meetup. Your first party should be for your neighbors, the parents of kids at your school, those LinkedIn connections, high school buddies you haven't seen in a while. Your first party should be a comfortable meetup for 15 to 22 people that you host at your home with just cocktails, not a dinner party. Then slowly, once a quarter, you'll be adding more people to it and filtering your list. Collect RSVPs to ensure attendance. New hosts are absolutely terrified that nobody will arrive. As long as you get a minimum of 15 people to show up, your party will generally be a success. Use platforms like Partiful or Mixily (not Paperless Post or Evite) to get people to RSVP, let them know what to expect, and send reminder messages. Ten days before, send a reminder message hyping up the party. About a week before, send another reminder message with a little dossier of who the attendees are. Write something little: "Ryan Hawk hosts a podcast. He wrote a book. He lives in Ohio. Ask him about the ski trip he went on with his family." This serves to make anxious people or socially awkward feel like they're welcome and they have a conversational access point. Practical hosting tips on event day: Label your trash cans and your bathrooms. As people arrive, greet and welcome every single person, and make them a name tag. Write it out right in front of them, first name only. Do not pre-write your name tags. Force collisions through structured activities. Your job as a leader is to go through life collecting the interesting people that you meet and helping them meet each other.  Can you become a connector? One way to be a connector is to host these meetups and force the collisions. Lead two or three rounds of introductions at your meetup. Make a little announcement 30 minutes after it starts: "There are so many interesting people here. I want you all to meet each other. We're gonna split into small groups. It might seem silly, but I promise the purpose tonight is for you to talk to as many new people as possible. We're gonna split into small groups of three or four people, and you're gonna go around and tell your life story in two minutes." End on time, especially for weekday events: Host from 6:30 to 8:30 PM with a hard stop on Tuesday or Wednesday nights. People appreciate having an end time because they have responsibilities. Having that end time makes them more likely to RSVP yes and actually attend. "I get more compliments on my party ending on time, and they leave with a positive experience, so they want to return for another." Why every leader needs a personal website. If you have a blue check verified on Instagram, if you post at least once a month on LinkedIn, you probably need your own personal website. It's proactive reputation management. People are out there searching for you on Google and on ChatGPT. It may not happen every single day, but it probably happens every week. Whether it's parents of your kids at school, whether it's new employees, people are googling you. You want to have a personal website to put your best foot forward and make a good impression. Carrd.co to create a simple homepage or cloudflare to set up your domain name.  Keep it simple: You don't need a Gary Vee type page. Your page can look like a Google Doc. Feed these large language models your story and bio. My website is plain text, simple homepage. I used to have a fancy design site. Now I'm like, dude, it doesn't matter. 80% of my visitors are on their cell phone and just want to read some text and have some links. The https://x.com/nickgraynews/status/1780448400418193615 that changed everything.  The viral Tokyo blind date trip taught me I was ready to share my life with someone. I ended up meeting my wife a couple of months after this experience because I realized I was ready. From a business perspective, one of the most interesting things while that was happening and for about a week afterwards: anyone would accept my phone call. My callbacks were instantaneous. My dial to answer fast. People were reaching out from everywhere. I was like, whoa, is this what it's like to be a celebrity? "I came back to Texas after the trip, ready to truly settle down and find a relationship and meet my now wife." Write like you talk: The best book about storytelling is https://www.amazon.com/Storyworthy-Engage-Persuade-through-Storytelling/dp/1608685489/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=187377533898&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1CU_cP62E1bWtfBweTGRiq2IlGyyKimTmz8Y-TfDLk-7U1pTQ1HlP1EQMHKkvcg5XWAOjKy_rns5Ldi7RPmy62kL0qdrxMvC_0HW1UOFXIoHB7XKmB1G82jDCt8OApixC5w0S3Ns1eDCaN_DNvxi4hwhHfXA5zpvLYKZRMmJxvYAe_4Ds4Dye1iuv5uHxpDkQXo8lSwpxHoKh7hsY4mawqb2htV6CeAf3cmo6u1wQiQ.JeBHRNBPT_0roCPB6OBUGx_1vhW3wKK72-8iJSzhqLc&dib_tag=se&hvadid=779541396699&hvdev=c&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9051709&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=7129754447197201513--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7129754447197201513&hvtargid=kwd-670946711165&hydadcr=21875_13365971_9433&keywords=storyworthy+book&mcid=9fe26253fa483bc4b0565832aeacc7b0&qid=1765760007&sr=8-1. Don't try to write a LinkedIn post that says "I'm happy to announce." Would you actually say that to someone? No, you wouldn't. Say it like you talk. Advice on Blind Introductions: Use a double opt-in intro. Reach out to one person first, "Hey, are you taking new clients before I connect you with a friend?" Get both parties' permission, separately - then send the email.  Give yourself a Free Day: Dan Sullivan suggests one free day a quarter from work. Make it a weekday, and even get a burner phone so you can't check your work text/emails, so you're completely disconnected from work.  The keys to being a great host/MC: https://learningleader.com/priya/ does such a great job talking about the theory of being a good leader. The host that doesn't do a great job is the one who's too cool to care. Give explicit instructions to people. You are a ring leader for an event, and you're in charge of everyone's energy levels and keeping the show on the road.  Add value before taking value. Never send someone a message, "I'd love to pick your brain," or "I'm looking for a mentor." That is take, take, take. Think about how you can add value first. When you add value first to people, it's some sort of law of reciprocity. They're much more likely to want to help you out or do something in return. Advice for new grads in the AI era: AI and new tools are eating into the ability for companies to hire low-level employees that do grunt work. Learn how to use the tools themselves. Work with small businesses and entrepreneurs where you can make a difference. Develop a writing practice: Matthew Dicks has this activity called https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7p329Z8MD0 where every night you write down some note, some anecdote, something that stuck out for you. It gives you ideas about things to write about. Use AI as an editor, not a writer: Don't outsource your thinking to AI. Use the tools, understand how to use them, but don't outsource your thinking. It'll spit back something decent, but you don't want to outsource your thinking, especially as a leader. Reflection Questions
- Nick says your first party should be for neighbors, school parents, and LinkedIn connections you haven't seen in a while (not your most impressive contacts). Who are 15-20 people in your life that fall into this "comfortable but haven't connected recently" category that you could invite to a simple cocktail party?  
- He emphasizes "add value before you take value" and never says "I'd love to pick your brain." Think about someone you want to connect with. What's one specific way you could add value to them first before asking for anything in return?  
- Nick hosts events once a quarter to keep weak ties warm instead of trying to have individual coffee meetings with everyone. What

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie's List (now called Angi). She started the company at just 23, going door-to-door as a self-described introvert and non-salesperson, and turned it into a national platform trusted by millions. During our conversation, we discuss what it takes to lead with authenticity and build lasting impact.  Key Learnings Lead by listening and showing up. Whether it's knocking on doors as a 23-year-old or meeting employees during office hours as CEO, Angie reminds us that being present, paying attention, and seeking feedback is the heart of leadership. Focus on people and learning. Angie's career filter is simple: Do I like the people I'm working with? Am I learning new things? If yes, keep going. If not, it's time to reconsider. Excellence isn't just about results. It's about the environment and growth around you. Take your work seriously, but not yourself. Confidence, humility, and authenticity go hand in hand. Angie shows us that you can be ambitious and driven without losing sight of the human side of leadership. From Angie... My co-founder, Bill Osterle, came to me when I was a senior in college and said, "Hey, I've got a crazy idea. Your parents are gonna hate it. But why don't we start a business?" I talked to my parents, talked to my friends, and then I ended up talking to my grandfather who was incredibly conservative. He grew up in the Depression, very fiscally responsible. "What do you have to lose? You're 22, your parents aren't going to let you starve, and you're not trying to support a family, so why don't you try it?" I was so taken aback by his response that that comment was probably what pushed me over the edge. I think young people can do this a lot, as we tend to overthink decisions. Sometimes people see things in you that you don't see in yourself, and you've gotta have a little faith. What better time to have a little faith than when you're young and carefree? Work hard, and things will come your way. We started in 1995. It was an offline world. We started as a call-in service and a monthly newsletter. The first name of the company was Columbus Neighbors. We left it like that for a year, and people just didn't get it. They thought the newsletter was the list. We decided to do a rebranding nine months in. We had two options: The List or Jackie's List (Jackie was the mother of one of our investors who knew everybody). At the last minute, Bill said maybe it should be Angie's List. "She does answer the phone." Going door to door was hard. There was a lot of crying, I will be honest. I was selling something that wasn't concrete. "Hey, so when you need a plumber, you're gonna call me and I'm gonna help you find a plumber. And then when you hire someone, you're gonna tell me about it." I viewed it as a numbers game. I need to knock on so many doors every day, and that's just what I'm going to do. Hopefully, if I stay on my pitch and I knock on enough doors, I will sell the right number of memberships. If I was selling one or two memberships a day, that's great. No business was gonna be built on me selling one or two memberships a day, but that's where we were. Sometimes you have to do the hard stuff. Sometimes you have to do the stuff you're not good at, and you have to figure out ways to work around it. Because no matter what you do in your career, there's gonna be stuff you don't love. I broke it down by like, I'm gonna do it for these two hours. I'm a believer in the you can do anything for a year philosophy. I could do anything for an hour a day. So you have to kind of disconnect and treat it that way, as this is like taking my medicine. But you do win every once in a while. And it is fun when you win. It is fun when you sell something. The day Patty gave me her church directory was the best day ever. You gotta celebrate the little wins as well in life. Starting a business is a long journey. It is more of a marathon than a sprint. There's usually not this burst of momentum where everything rolls your way. It's building blocks along the way. If you don't celebrate those little wins and you only focus on, oh, I'm not gonna be happy until we're at 10,000 members, that could be years. You need things to keep you going every day. Patty lived near Bill, so she kinda liked him too, but I think there was a little bit of entrepreneur in Patty. Patty needed nothing from us. She had lived in Columbus her entire life. She had renovated a 1920s house. All she was able to do was give. She knew everybody. But I think she just loved the spirit. You don't know whether that's door seven, door one, door 57, you don't know. But there is typically a breakthrough. Staying true and persistent, you know, there probably weren't a lot of women starting businesses going door to door in 1995, and Patty was like, look, she's got some gumption. She's tackling a business that in many ways is a man's world. Construction is a man's world. Whether that's starting a business or finding the right boss, or finding the right position, that same lesson is the same. I talk to young people, I say, Hey, you can do marketing anywhere. There's any company you can do marketing. When it comes to me... Go where you're gonna be with somebody who believes in you. That's gonna invest in you, because that's actually what's gonna change your trajectory. It's not the name on the company that's gonna change your trajectory. It's actually who's got your back, who's coaching you, that's going to make the biggest difference. The next inflection point for me was when we opened in Cleveland the year after that. It was the first market we had opened from scratch. I remember I went one morning and picked up the newspaper, picked up the Plain Dealer at the bagel shop across the street from my office. And there it was, our little two-by-three ad that said, "Tired of lousy service" with some clip art. I was so excited. I was like, This is amazing. We're in Cleveland. This is gonna be so great. And then I remember telling Bill, "We're gonna get so many calls." And he's like, "We're gonna get so many calls." And I don't think we got any calls that day. The transition from individual contributor to leading others was a horrible transition. It's actually really hard. I tell people that all the time because if you think about who do we promote in companies, we promote really strong individual performers. The skills that make us really good individual performers do not necessarily make us good leaders, managers, et cetera, because it's actually a whole different skillset. I was that overachiever kind of controller, let me just do it type person. You have to actually train yourself to not do those things because no one's ever going to be successful and learn if you're just over there stepping in. The early days when I was young and trying to manage people, not good. Not good at all. I ended up leaving for a year and a half to go to business school. I was pretty burnt out on the business, and I probably would've left the business had I not gone. It gave me a chance to reflect on where I've been and step back. Now I understand, I'm not in the pressure cooker. I can see where I've mistepped. I left when I was 25, three years in. The business had gotten big enoug,h and we decided to bring in a CEO because the 22- 23-year-old was kinda like, maybe we need some leadership here. My co-founder joined full-time at that point and came in as CEO. I joke around, I'm like, take a break. I was still keeping the books. The TV commercial was a hundred thousand dollars, which I had to convince our board on. I was like, look, either we try this or we just close Cleveland because there is no scenario here that we're gonna build a business with door-to-door sales at the rate we're moving. We basically took everything on Cleveland, which was $100,000. I would've been devastated had it failed. People started calling. I was so excited. Then all of a sudden it just kinda went bananas. You realize there's a lot of people with this problem. Doors slammed in my face at that point, not as much of an issue. And then we ended up being in Boston and Washington, and a bunch of other cities. Every time we'd go to a city, I'd fly in, and I would open the paper, and I would get all happy. The TV commercials themselves were funny because I can't do anything for fun anymore without seeing myself in the commercial. I did the first one, and they're like, listen, we're just gonna, we're not gonna tell anybody. It's just gonna go on, you know, we're just gonna do it really quietly. I was like, great. Okay, fine. And then it kind of took off. I had young kids at the time. I wouldn't let us advertise on kids' shows. There was never us on Disney Channel or Nickelodeon because I didn't want that. But the kids would see me on TV. You know, they would see me doing interviews. It happened for them at such a young age that they just kind of thought that's what parents did. I remember one of my kids coming home in middle school and being like, I can't believe you didn't tell me you were famous because it was finally, the friends had grown up enough that they were like, you know who her mom is, right? I became a little more closed off in my personal life as I became more public. Kids deserve to grow up in a world where they get to be kids and not have to deal with that stuff. In our little town, people were like, Oh yeah, she just lives here. And it became not a thing. It became more relevant to me when I

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Patrick Lencioni is the founder of The Table Group and a bestselling author of 14 books, including The Five Dysfunctions of a Team and The 6 Types of Working Genius. Behind his achievements (valedictorian, straight A's, business success) were childhood wounds that drove him to prove himself. Key Learnings "I think I'm really good at anticipating people's objections." I think about what they might be thinking and what I need to put out there. Whether talking interpersonally, giving a speech, writing a book, or on a podcast, I like to think about what the other person might be objecting to. Lean into empathy. I always felt like I needed to prove myself in order to be successful and to feel safe. That's not healthy.  "When people tell you they got straight A's and were the valedictorian, the student body president, and got accepted to all the schools they wanted to get into, there's a wound there." Based on my personality type, I shouldn't have done all those things, but it was out of the need to prove myself. Which wasn't healthy for me. My parents had a hard time being affirming because of their own lives. It wasn't until I was 55 years old that a friend who's a psychologist said, "You, my friend, have childhood wounds you've never dealt with." I got good Christian counseling and realized that the way I grew up, I wasn't supposed to grow up that way. It's common in athletes & CEOs to feel like they haven't done enough. They need to do more. "You're a noun, not a verb. You are enough, and you're not defined by what you do." Great achievements come out of fear, but "true greatness is best when it's only in the things that you're meant to be great at, and that you're doing it out of freedom and passion and love, not out of fear of failure." I remember seeing Tiger Woods on the Tonight Show when he was four years old. He was being groomed to be a golfer when he was four. It's best in life when we discover who God means us to be, then we do the things we're supposed to do and we're okay with not being good at the things we're not supposed to. Are we too affirming now as parents? People who are pretty darn good at everything it's usually because they're doing something out of fear. When I was a kid, my parents came from World War II and the Depression. It was like, hey, you got a roof over your head. There was a lot of suffering, and they weren't really attuned to that. Now we are hyper worried of our own kids suffering. No, suffering is actually good. They need to know they're loved and safe, but they're not gonna be protected from what is necessary for their development. The mistake I made was, oh no, I don't want them to feel like I did. Thankfully at my age, I'm now interacting with my mostly adult children and explaining to them what I did wrong. The Teammate Trifecta - How should we use it?: When I wrote The Five Dysfunctions of a Team right after 9/11, I thought, "That's the book on teamwork." Then we realized you need The Ideal Team Player (humble, hungry, and smart) to hire people that fit on teams. Years later, we came up with Working Genius: Are they in the right seat?  3 steps to building a team: Don't let people on the bus if they're not humble, hungry, and smart. Make sure you have them in the right chair based on their gifts. Then teach them the Five Dysfunctions. Pat's Two Working Geniuses: Invention and Discernment "Invention means I love to come up with ideas out of nothing. Discernment means I love evaluating things, curating things. God wired me to do that kind of thing." When people say, "Pat, we have five minutes, and we need a new idea," I just take a deep breath and smile. One man's trash is another man's treasure.  Every new idea I've come up with has been in the field, working with people. I asked Jim Collins, "Jim, you do all this research with data. I go into a room with leaders and just think, What's going on here?" He said, "Pat, that's just as valid as what I do. That's called field research and face validity."  What is Pat terrible at? Finishing things. People say, "Well you finished 14 books." And that's because I had the help of others to make me finish those.  I got a 4.0 in high school. That wasn't my personality. I went to every class in college, never blew off classes. My personality is the kind that should blow off classes that don't matter. But I was so afraid of failing and disappointing my parents and teachers that I did anything they asked. That was not natural; that was fear-based. Can we use fear as useful fuel? "You can use it in the short term, but if you're doing it in your life, no." "We should celebrate what other people are better than we are at things. We should literally celebrate what we suck at." If we have two kids and one's creative and the other's disciplined, we tell the creative one to be more disciplined and the disciplined one to be more creative. No. We have to say, understanding that you're not creative is good for you. That's not who you're meant to be. The hardest thing about being a parent is constantly asking yourself, "Am I pushing them too hard or not enough?" The hardest question you ask yourself as a parent is, "Am I pushing my kids too hard or not hard enough?" This question also applies to yourself.  In Working Genius, should I work on my working frustrations? The short answer is no.  Working Genius is all about knowing what you love to do. Enablement and Tenacity are my working frustrations, and so many of those things fall into parenting. I'd say to my wife, "Hey, Laura, let's outsource some of these things." Out of fear and guilt, she said no because she felt like she'd be a bad mother. Outsource the work you don't enjoy, and when you have to do it, try your best and don't feel guilty with the result. The electrical company turned off our power for not paying the bill. We need to accept our deficiencies and need to be able to laugh at the things we're not good at.  Ryan's Learning Leader Team: When your whole team has Tenacity as their working genius, your team loves to finish things. You will never be flaky. You might stick to something that needs to be changed way before it needs to be. In my company, we're always up for a change in plans, but not great at following through. If your team doesn't have Wonder and Invention, force yourself to borrow from others outside the organization to get new ideas. The Five Dysfunctions of a Team Vulnerability-based trust changes everything in teams. Eric Spoelstra uses Five Dysfunctions with the Miami Heat. He started when they acquired LeBron James. He said, "I don't know what offense we're gonna run this year, but I know we're gonna use the Five Dysfunctions." I love it in basketball, especially because you see them on the court. When people can be so vulnerable that they can say it was my fault, or I need help, or I'm sorry I was kind of a jerk yesterday at practice, it changes everything. But when you have a player who doesn't admit when they made a mistake or who blames everybody else, the ceiling of that team being great is so low. Humble, Hungry, Smart has been a great tool for athletic teams. I define it: no ego, it's about the team (humble). Hungry means I go above and beyond. Smart means I have emotional intelligence. I have the team members say, "Which of those three is your lowest?" It is crazy how people will call out. The goalie said, "I'm not smart. I yell at guys on the field, and I demean them. I gotta get better." Another kid said, "I need to be hungrier. I don't do the workouts at home." Pat phrases it this way when meeting with athletic teams. "Okay, everybody, look around at your teammates and think about the thing they want to get better at. If you want to be a good teammate, when you see your teammate doing the thing he just admitted he wants to get better at, you need to call him out on it." Once people start to have that language, it's amazing how they're coaching each other. And if as a coach yourself, I think you should tell people, "When I was a player, this was mine." They're gonna go, hey, if the coach admits that, I'll do it too. For leaders with Enablement & Tenacity as top geniuses, how do they avoid burnout? You have to be willing to start with "I am prone to burnout if you guys aren't aware of what's going on." The people with enablement and tenacity will say, "I'll just do it," and then they do. We had 12 employees and only one had Tenacity. We said we are going to kill her because every time we have to get something done, we're gonna say, "Jackie will finish." When people have enablement and tenacity, they and everybody else need to say, let's not abuse them. How do we assess a company in a short amount of time without focusing on their financials?  When I go into a company, I find out what their meetings are like. If there's no disagreement and they're not exhausted at the end of a meeting, that's a red flag. If good people are leaving an organization, that's a massive red flag. I like going around and checking interactions. Is there an intensity with people together? Or are they alone and quiet? Also, keep an eye on customer reviews. What are the customers saying? There are two extremes of humility problems: arrogance on one end, and lack of confidence on the other. I first identified humility as a problem when I saw a CEO who didn't care about his company's results, but if he went on TV and answered questions about why they did

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: David Adelman is the CEO of Campus Apartments, founder of Darco Capital, and co-owner of the Philadelphia 76ers. During our conversation, we discussed how losing a basketball bet at age 11 changed his life, investing his bar mitzvah money in real estate, becoming CEO at 25, his grandfather's Holocaust survival story, and why it gives him perspective on struggle, embracing failure, the trade-offs of building something excellent, and what he looks for when hiring leaders. Key Learnings "Why not me? Why not now?" David's mantra cuts through all the overthinking and excuses we make. When he saw other people building national real estate portfolios, he didn't wonder if it was possible—he asked why he couldn't do it. Stop waiting for permission. Stop waiting for the perfect moment. Ask yourself: why not me? Why not now? Make mistakes, just not the same one twice. David doesn't expect perfection from himself or his team. He expects learning. Fail fast, fail forward, but don't repeat the same failure. That's not growth—that's negligence. Embrace the suck, but evolve through it. David's grandfather survived the Holocaust after his wife and children were murdered. He escaped, joined the resistance, and rebuilt his life from nothing. When David thinks about that, he says: "No matter what, I don't know struggle." That's perspective. Most of what we call struggle is just discomfort. Understanding that doesn't make your challenges disappear... It makes them manageable. If your grandfather could survive the unthinkable, you can handle the hard day in front of you. At age 11, David challenged family friend Alan Horwitz to a basketball game and made a wager. Horwitz didn't let the kid win, and David lost his basketball, football, and baseball glove. To get them back, he had to go to Campus Apartments every Saturday to sweep sawdust and stack lumber. This losing bet became his entry into a billion-dollar career. At 13, David gambled his $2,000 bar mitzvah money by investing it with Horwitz in a building at 45th and Pine Streets in Philadelphia - a property his company still owns today. By age 17, he bought his first solely owned investment property. David was accepted into Temple University Beasley School of Law but chose to become a Property Manager at Campus Apartments instead. At age 25 in 1997, he became CEO of Campus Apartments. His grandfather, Sam Wasserman, was captured by the Nazis in 1942 and taken to the Sobibor concentration camp, where his wife and two children were immediately executed. Wasserman escaped during an organized revolt, joined the resistance, was wounded in battle, and was cared for by a woman named Sophie, who became his second wife. David said, "I feel a deep connection to him and what he went through. It's more like a sense of duty to honor him." David says, "I bet on jockeys, not horses. I ask, 'If the thing fails, would we support them again?' To be clear, a lot of our [investments] are going to fail.' He learned the hard way: "Friends would say, 'Here's a deal, put in X amount,' so you know, it's $250,000 or $500,000 or $1 million. I realized very quickly that it's probably a money-losing prospect to just invest in a friend of a friend's idea or because someone at your country club is investing in it." "It's called working off your debt." I literally lost everything to my "Uncle" Alan in 30 minutes when I was 11. My baseball glove, football, basketball, even my bank book. Every Saturday, I had to stack lumber and sweep sawdust to get one item back. Two years later, at my Bar Mitzvah, my parents asked if I wanted to give my gift money to my grandfather, who was good at picking stocks. I said no, I want to give it to Uncle Alan and buy real estate. At 13, I drove around with him, picked the biggest building he owned, handed him $2,000, and became a partner. My grandfather was in Poland with a wife and two kids when the Nazis rounded him up. There were two lines. One for men, one for women, and children. He never saw his wife and kids again. He escaped from the Sobibor prison camp, became a freedom fighter, got shot, and was in a hospital recovering when a woman checking on her brother saw this lonely soldier and went over to check on him. That was my grandmother. My mother was born in a displaced persons camp after the war. "No matter what, when I'm getting the crap kicked out of me in business or anything else, I don't know struggle." I think about my grandfather and what he went through. "That guy knew pressure and made it through the other side. So I have to stop being a little bitch about it and lean in." Uncle Alan always said, "Whatever you do in life, it shouldn't feel like work." I have never said I'm going to work. I say I'm going to the office. Now, am I tired sometimes? A hundred percent. Did I miss a lot of stuff with my kids? Absolutely, and I have deep regret over that. With success and money comes a price, too. Becoming a CEO at 25. "Why not me and why not now?" I live my life by this mantra. In the 1990s, no one was doing student housing at large scale nationally. I saw this white space, and I'm like, fuck it, let's do it. "I'm not afraid to fail. And I think if you're not afraid to fail, it's a freedom." "Embrace the suck." Not everything's gonna be fun. Some things are hard. But sometimes when you push through them, you get to another side. Sometimes you don't, and pulling the plug is okay if it's not working. I've gotten good at understanding that a business might be a great opportunity, a great idea, at the wrong time. When building something…If you aren't willing to make sacrifices earlier in your career and build that foundation for the future, being an entrepreneur might not be for you. I made choices to miss things with my wife and kids. Were all those things I missed worth it? Probably not. My daughters are 21 and 23 now, and I missed a lot of their early growing up. Four years ago, I apologized to my older one, and she said, "You know what, we remember this dad more than that dad." "It's never too late to make a change." After you've done okay financially, it has to be about something else. The guys and women I roll with—"it's not about money. You either are wired to get up and work hard every day and do it, and it has to be about something else." It could be about providing opportunities for the people who work with you, or solving complex problems, or creating a business you're excited about. "I don't think I'm the smartest guy in the room." You have to be open to learning.  I continue to want to learn about other people's businesses. If I meet somebody, I'm like, tell me about that business. If you have that inquisitive mind, some guy tells me he's in the widget business, and I'll think of ten things they should try to do. "I am never too embarrassed to say I don't know something." When we were selecting architects and contractors for the arena, I spoke to owners of the newest stadiums. Just lessons learned about the process. When I mentor kids, I tell them most people are afraid to say "I don't know" or "I don't understand." "If you're embarrassed for looking stupid, isn't it worse if you don't know what you're doing down the road because you didn't ask?" "People don't know how to listen anymore. People wait to talk." They don't listen. When I have dinner with my youngest daughter, I hand her my phone so I won't be on it. I want to be there, I want to be attentive. Why are you wasting time meeting with people if you're not gonna listen to them? "Make lots of mistakes. Just don't make the same one twice." Try hard. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. The worst thing that happens is someone says no. I met my wife in a bar, literally in line for pizza. Turns out she was the school teacher two different women had told me I needed to call. The funny part is my buddy was talking to her best friend. He married her, I married Hailey, and our kids are best friends. When it comes to sales. "Don't bullshit people. That's my number one goal." People can tell. Even at an early age, I had the humility to say I don't know everything. Here's my business plan, here's why I think I can scale Campus Apartments across the country when that wasn't being done. When I'm hiring or promoting leaders, I look for three things. One is trust—I need to trust them. Two is creating an open line of communication. Three, "I don't think you're a successful leader or CEO if you're not willing to listen." There are a lot of dictator type CEOs. That's not me. Some of them work. "I don't manage from fear, I manage from bringing in opinions." For me, it's about having people who, in their individual swim lanes, are better at those jobs than you are. The DeSean Jackson situation taught me about leading with curiosity. He made some anti-Semitic comments, and people came to me saying we need to cancel him. "Before I get there, I actually just want to find out what his intent was." The things he said were based on him being uninformed about the hurtfulness of those words. Not only was he willing to understand that, but he said, "Can you take me to your Holocaust memorial and actually educate me?" He came with his mom, no press. "It would be nice to take a moment before you're ready to convict somebody and actually have a conversation." When I'm looking at investments, I really have to understand the product. I joke, "Do my kids at least understand it?" Number two: Who's the founder? People matter. I ask myself, if t

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes Join tens of thousands of leaders pursuing excellence: https://ryanhawk.kit.com/profile This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Priya Parker is a master facilitator, conflict resolution expert, and author of the bestselling book The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters. Priya has spent decades facilitating difficult conversations in boardrooms, communities, and conflict zones. In this conversation, she reveals the mechanics of meaningful gathering and why most of us are doing it wrong. Key Learnings A facilitator is interested in the life of a group. I think of facilitation as working with people who are interested in the infrastructure of three or more people who need to come together and are ideally changed for the better by what transpires between them. A facilitator thinks deeply about how to set up the conditions to increase the likelihood that transformation happens. Great facilitators are obsessed with language. There's listening to make someone feel heard, but the difference between green facilitators and seasoned ones is an obsession and ability to hear, recall, and play with language. You have to understand what people are actually saying and be able to reflect it back in ways that unlock new meaning. Understanding power is essential to facilitation. You need to know how decisions are being made, who is talking more than others, when to allow for that, and what your own relationship is to holding the group. When do you shut up? When do you pull people out? When do you push back? All of this is fundamentally about understanding power dynamics. I'm a third-generation ostrich. On both sides of my family, when conflict arises, we stick our heads in the sand. Nothing to see here, folks. But I've cultivated the ability to hold heat. Even now, when facilitating a reckoning and the heat rises, my palms still get sweaty, I can feel my heart racing, blood rushing to my cheeks. But I've learned how to stay present with that discomfort. Counterintuitively, having deep empathy for people who want to flee makes me more effective. "90% of the success of what happens in the room, and as a facilitator, happens before anybody arrives." This is what my mentor Randa Slim taught me, and it's absolutely true. The construction of the house happens before anyone gets there. Dr. Hal Saunders changed everything for me. He was an American diplomat who served five presidential administrations and was part of the Camp David Accords. After leaving government, he realized that while governments can create peace treaties, people's perceptions of each other on the ground haven't necessarily changed. He trained me as a teenager in sustained dialogue, and I learned facilitation the way it should be learned—through apprenticeship. Even in his seventies and eighties, he always believed he had something to learn. The first questions people ask you signify what they value. When I arrived at the University of Virginia, people kept asking, "What are you?" I learned quickly that they meant racially. My mother, an anthropologist, had taught me that the first questions a community asks reveal what matters most to them. Race was clearly very important there. I made myself a conflict resolution facilitator. Growing up between two vastly different households—toggling every two weeks between a vegetarian, Buddhist home where the word "God" was never mentioned and an evangelical Christian home where we never ate before saying Grace. I became deeply interested in when and why and how people come together, what they think of as normal, how they create and change cultures, and how they come apart. Your highest real estate is when people are together in the same place at the same time. Wasting time in the room figuring out what to say or do is actually wasting everyone's time. A huge part of preparing for any gathering is figuring out what the right conversation is for this group to have, and how to equip them to have it well. Think of military pre-mission briefs. They're really good at setting mission objectives. This is the goal, this is what we're striving for. Then they debrief afterward to learn and do better next time. That same discipline applies to any gathering, whether it's a leadership retreat or hosting dinner at your house. Every gathering is a social contract. You're creating a temporary constitution. At a dinner party, there's an implicit rule: bring a bottle of wine. People find out they've broken the constitution when someone says, "Wow, they didn't even bring a housewarming gift." We have all these implicit norms, and in diverse groups... Which is every group, not just racially, but people with different assumptions about how things work—you need to make the contract explicit. Elizabeth Stewart ran a startup networking organization and wanted it to be a true community, not just a shark tank for pitches. She created a pop-up rule: you can't talk about what you're selling. No pitches. Super counterintuitive for a networking night, but it created exactly what she wanted... Trust and long-lasting relationships rather than transactional encounters. The rule signified what she was trying to create. Using your power as a host means protecting your guests. You're temporarily equalizing people so they can coordinate group life. Gathering is fundamentally a coordination problem: helping people understand what the rules are, protecting them, and connecting them. There are moments when you should surprise people. If a team is stuck in a 50-year-old institution that's always done things the same way, and they'll die institutionally if they don't change, maybe the purpose is to build their skills for discomfort and navigating uncertainty. In that case, maybe you don't tell them the full roadmap because the practice itself is learning to navigate the unknown. Making things explicit and transparent equalizes the room. Showing the roadmap is deeply beneficial, particularly to people with less power and knowledge. For newer people who don't know how things work, for people with other obligations like tending to an elderly parent or being a student athlete with fixed schedules, transparency helps level the playing field. But it may not always be your purpose. Before you default to a dinner party, ask what you actually need. If the goal is to laugh hysterically and create memories with friends you don't see enough, a dinner party might not be the best form. Maybe you should play kickball in the park, stage a made-up pickleball championship, go to a morning rave, or take a party bus to a concert. We're so boxed into thinking about how adults must hang out. When hosting dinner parties, keep the menu relatively simple. Increase the meaning dial and it decreases the pressure on food quality. Think about food that tells a story. The invitation matters deeply. I could send an invitation: "Come enjoy my best attempts at Ruth's BLTs." My grandmother's recipe that takes me back to childhood. I tell the story in the email, narrow the expectations, and create a social contract. This is for BLTs. If you're a vegetarian, you can take out the bacon. And please don't bring your mushroom penne, not in this context. Then I ask: bring a story of a dish that takes you back to childhood. The whole night plays itself. Magical questions are questions everyone in the group is interested in answering, and everyone would be interested in hearing each other's answers. It's a magical equation. It's subjective and relative to each group. My seven-year-old daughter once asked at dinner: "What's the naughtiest thing you've ever done that was worth it?" We laughed and shared for two hours. My son asked my elderly father: "What's the meanest thing you ever did to anybody before the age of 15?" That caveat, before age 15, temporarily equalized everyone at the table. Testing and practicing are how you develop the muscle. I test questions on my team, I think through social arithmetic: what do these specific people have in common, what don't they have in common, what's the right level of vulnerability? I ask my community on Instagram and Substack to share their magical questions. Someone from Brazil sent me: "Would you rather spend 10 minutes on the moon or one year traveling through Europe?" It inspires heated debates in his friend group. My favorite question for virtual groups: "What was the first concert you ever went to, and who took you?" People pause, then you see a waterfall of answers—Bonnie Raitt, Madonna, New Kids on the Block. Everyone's interested in seeing everyone else's answers. You realize who's here, you see there's someone behind everyone (my sister, my mother, my college girlfriend), and you increase the likelihood that people realize these are real humans.  Creating psychological togetherness on Zoom is my single most important skill. During the pandemic, I lost all my physical facilitation tools. I couldn't chase someone into the bathroom to convince them to come back, couldn't use my body to signal it's time to quiet down. I was just a little green square. Magical questions became my most powerful tool for creating psychological togetherness when people aren't in the same room. Ryan's champagne question works because it's visceral and emotional. "We're meeting exactly one year from today and popping bottles, what are we celebrating?" That's not "what's your goal for the year." That's boring. You pop champagne for somet

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Nicholas Thompson is the CEO of The Atlantic and former editor-in-chief of WIRED. He's the author of the best-selling book (and one of my favorites of the year), The Running Ground. Nick shares why great leaders must balance being decisive with staying open to being wrong, how to build teams that challenge your thinking without creating chaos, and why the most important skill for the next decade is knowing what questions only humans can answer. Key Learnings Consistency Over Intensity Creates Results - If you go out there every day, six or seven days a week, and a couple days you push yourself really hard, you get faster. There's no two ways about it. If you don't do that, you don't get faster. It's a very good reminder that you can get a lot done if you just go and allot time to pushing yourself. Recommendation letter written by the Stanford faculty about Nick's dad to be a Rhodes Scholar: "Scotty Thompson is the kind of young man that comes along only once in approximately ten years. I cannot recall ever having known a student who possessed the same combination of intelligence, creativity, energy, drive, and dedication. He has attempted more, achieved more, than anyone we have studied– including some who now hold high office. He is generally conceded among those who have observed the student body since World War II to be the outstanding leader of the era. I think it likely that in the entire history of Stanford campus life, he has had no near rival since Herbert Hoover as an undergraduate." Also about Nick's Dad: Tracy Bennett, one of his graduate students, said, "He was flamboyant, gently endearing, annoyingly arrogant, piercingly intelligent, entertaining, and more. I'd never met a man, nor had a professor, who was clearly so brilliant and at the same time so precariously insecure." His grandfather, Frank Thompson, placed second in the Southern California extemporaneous speaking contest held at Whittier College. First place was Richard Nixon. Parenting — "Nothing makes me more worried about failure than parenting." "Parenting is suffused with regrets, confusion, and mistakes. But when I run by, I know my children are rooting for me to succeed with infinite love and enthusiasm." Running hard... Pushing yourself. Why do it? "Discipline builds discipline. Discipline is cumulative." Sometimes You Have to Trick Yourself - I ran 10:48 because the track was bigger than I thought, and I didn't realize how fast I was going. If I had known I was running at a 5:23 pace, I would've shut down. My body would've started to hurt. Sometimes you can't let yourself know what you're actually doing, or you'll get scared. Hiring at The Atlantic - The people he hires at The Atlantic share four must-have attributes: A spirit of generosity. A force of ideas. They're relentlessly hard workers. And they have an edge: an anxiety about getting great work done. That last one stuck with me. The best people aren't just talented... They're driven by a productive anxiety to do work that matters. Becoming CEO of The Atlantic: The Search & Selection: The Atlantic conducted a yearlong search after President Bob Cohn left in fall 2019. When owners Laurene Powell Jobs and David Bradley announced Thompsont in December 2020, they said "Nick is singular; we've seen no one like him" and that he brought "a surround-sound coverage of relevant experience." Move at an Uncomfortable Pace - You don't get anything you want by being comfortable. If you're working in a way that feels easy and setting deadlines where everything seems smooth, you're not growing, you're not learning, you're not getting there. That's a lesson from running, and it's a good lesson for work. Set Audacious Goals - We're setting two extremely big goals at The Atlantic. Our projections don't suggest we're going to hit them. But the same was true last time when I said we're gonna get profitable and a million subscribers in three years. We got there. Sometimes having a really big goal motivates you and forces all the tough choices. Continuous Forward Motion Matters Most - When I realized yesterday's marathon was going badly, I kept telling myself: continuous forward motion. Sometimes the goal becomes just finishing. It's better to make a full drop in pace and hold that than to slowly slide backwards every mile once you know you won't hit your goal. Every Extra Word Is an Opportunity to Lose People - Every extra word, every extra thought, every extra detail that doesn't propel the story needs to be removed. This book is 75,000 words, but there's 60,000 words I cut. Is this sentence absolutely essential? No? It's gone. That's storytelling, and that's leadership communication. The Cocktail Party Test for Storytelling - If you describe what you're writing at a cocktail party, do people come towards you or walk away? I can talk about my 2005 cancer diagnosis and 2007 marathon, and people lock in. I talk about my 2009 marathon, and no one cares. Test what has emotional resonance with your friends. Write and Speak To Help People SEE a Movie - When somebody's reading, they're visualizing it in their mind's eye. Can you see it? Can you feel it? If you can't run a movie in your head about what I'm writing, it shouldn't be on the page. Help them visualize it—the little white house in Concord, walking around Walden Pond. Hiring: Spirit of Generosity and Force of Ideas - Spirit of generosity means can they work with people? Will they be territorial or figure out what's best for the org? Force of ideas means are you smart and sharp? I also want edge—a little bit of productive paranoia. Not complacent, but kind to everybody. Discipline Can Show Up in Different Ways - My editor-in-chief hasn't run a mile in 25 years. Is he disciplined? Hell yeah. Works all the time, focused on every sentence. You can have mental discipline without physical discipline. I try to get the most out of different kinds of people with different strengths. Keep Going - This is the hardest time to graduate because of AI and uncertainty. Find things you're passionate about and really focus on them. My twenties weren't great professionally. I found journalism, but I wasn't good at it yet. Keep pushing, and eventually things turn out for the best. Reflection Questions

• What would happen if you moved at an uncomfortable pace in your most important work?
• Where are you setting deadlines that feel too easy and smooth?
• Are you ruthlessly cutting everything that doesn't propel your story forward? What sentence, meeting, or project exists simply because it always has, not because it's essential?

Former Episodes Referenced #603 - Michael Easter - The Comfort Crisis #611 - Codie Sanchez - Main Street Millionaire #654 - Jake Tapper - Be So Good They Can't Ignore You Time Stamps: 02:05 Nick's NYC Marathon Experience 03:35 Nick's Father's Legacy 11:43  Running and Leadership 17:08 Overcoming Cancer and Running Again 19:24 The Importance of Setting "Stretch" Goals  21:30 Marathon Challenges and Lessons 27:09 The Warrior Athlete and Early Lessons 28:54 Nick's Role as CEO of The Atlantic 29:30 Unique Talents for a CEO Role 30:42 Balancing Multiple Interests 32:30 Writing 'The Running Ground' 37:37 Crafting a Compelling Story 41:24 Storytelling Tips for Leaders 44:15 Hiring the Right People 51:55 Running and Parenting 54:06 Advice for New Graduates 56:07 EOPC