The Just Security Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

On Nov. 13, the Trump administration took the unprecedented step of adding four groups in Europe to the U.S. government’s list of specially designated global terrorists (SDGTs). The administration also stated its intent to add each of these entities to the State Department’s list of designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs), claiming that all four are affiliated with “Antifa.”

The development marks an escalation in the administration’s efforts to recast anti-fascist activism as a matter of national security, carrying far-reaching legal and political consequences. Experts think the move could lay the groundwork for targeting organizations and activists here in the United States, potentially undermining the right to free speech. 

Tom Joscelyn, a senior fellow at Just Security, is joined by Tom Brzozowski, former counsel for Domestic Terrorism at the U.S. Department of Justice, to discuss what the new designations mean for civil liberties, and how they might reshape the boundaries of permissible speech and association.  

Show Notes: 

• “How Designating Antifa as a Foreign Terrorist Organization Could Threaten Civil Liberties” by Tom Brzozowski (Just Security, October 27, 2025)  
•  Just Security’s Terrorism and Violent Extremism Archive 
• Just Security’s Counterterrorism Archive

International law professors Chiara Giorgetti, Milena Sterio, and Rebecca Hamilton join Just Security’s Managing Editor, Megan Corrarino, to discuss takeaways from the American Branch of the International Law Association (ABILA)’s Oct. 23-25 International Law Weekend. 

In this special episode co-produced with ABILA’s International Law Chats podcast, which Giorgetti and Sterio co-host along with Alison Macdonald KC, the guests — each of whom also participated in International Law Weekend — discuss the weekend’s theme, “Crisis as Catalyst on International Law”; takeaways from panels on topics ranging from the proposed Crimes against Humanity Treaty to international environmental law and more; and how international lawyers and law students might think about their role in the present moment. 

Show Note: 

• International Law Chats - an ABILA podcast 
• Crisis as Catalyst in International Law by Michael P. Scharf (October 16, 2025) 
• Crisis as Catalyst: Past, Present, and Future of International Law by William J. Aceves, Amity Boye and Jessica Peake (October 21, 2025)  
• A Series on the Occasion of ABILA’s International Law Weekend 2025 

This week, the Trump administration took over command of the D.C. police department, and surged federal law enforcement officers and National Guard units into the city. While the United States has a long tradition of leaving most policing to state and local agencies, federal law enforcement has specific powers, and there are well-established limits on the use of military forces for domestic law enforcement, but the rules for DC are particular.

In this episode, host David Aaron is joined by Carrie Cordero, General Counsel at the Center for a New American Security and former Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for National Security and Senior Associate General Counsel at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and Donell Harvin, Visiting Fellow at the National Security Institute at George Mason University and former Chief of Homeland Security and Intelligence for the District of Columbia. Together, they unpack significant legal and policy considerations concerning the Executive Branch’s recent actions and the open questions still in play.

Show Notes:

• Center for a New American Security, The 21st Century National Guard: Expanding Missions, Modernizing Authorities
• Just Security’s Federalization of DC Policing, Law Enforcement and National Security Archives

Former President Donald Trump is now facing his fourth criminal case. 

On Monday, August 14, a grand jury in Atlanta indicted Trump and 18 others, including his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, over their alleged efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in Georgia. The indictment charges that the defendants engaged in a sweeping criminal enterprise, which involved submitting false slates of electors, pressuring state officials, breaching voting data, and perjury, among other conduct.  

Joining the show to discuss the most recent Trump indictment, we have Ambassador Norman Eisen. Norm is the former U.S. Ambassador to the Czech Republic and has also served as special counsel and special assistant to the president for ethics and government reform. In 2019 and 2020, he served as special counsel on the House Judiciary Committee majority during Trump’s impeachment proceedings and trial. Norm has written extensively about the Georgia indictment. 

Show Notes: 

• Ambassador Norman Eisen (@NormEisen) 
• Paras Shah (@pshah518) 
• Just Security’s Georgia indictment coverage  
• Just Security’s coverage of Special Counsel Jack Smith 
• Music: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)
• Music: “Covert Affair” by Kevin MacLeod from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/kevin-macleod/covert-affair (License code: Z20AS7IAZ04VZZBR) 

The criminal charges against Donald Trump continue to pile up.

On July 27, a superseding indictment was filed in the classified documents case against Trump, adding three additional charges to the 37 originally filed in June. Five days later, Special Counsel Jack Smith filed a new indictment over the former president’s efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

The superseding indictment in the classified documents case alleges that Trump violated the Espionage Act by retaining a classified document described as a “presentation concerning military activity in a foreign country,” at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey, and that Trump conspired with two associates, Carlos De Oliveira and Walt Nauta, to obstruct justice by attempting to delete security camera footage at Mar-a-Lago in order to conceal it from the FBI and a grand jury. 

Joining the show to discuss the additional charges in the classified documents case is David Aaron. 

David is a Senior Counsel in the Washington, D.C. and New York offices of the law firm Perkins Coie. Before joining private practice, David was a prosecutor in the Justice Department's National Security Division, where he prosecuted Espionage Act violations and saw how the process works from the inside. This conversation was recorded on July 30, 2023. 

Show Notes: 

• David Aaron (@davidcaaron)
• Paras Shah (@pshah518) 
• Just Security’s Espionage Act coverage
• Just Security’s classified information coverage
• Just Security’s coverage of Special Counsel Jack Smith 
• Just Security’s Trump Classified Docs Clearinghouse
• Tess Bridgeman (@bridgewriter) and Ryan Goodman’s (@rgoodlaw) Just Security article on the national security implications of the superseding indictment 
• Brian D. Greer (@secretsandlaws) and Wendy Leben’s Just Security Podcast episode on the presidential classification and declassification process 
• Music: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)
• Music: “Covert Affair” by Kevin MacLeod from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/kevin-macleod/covert-affair (License code: Z20AS7IAZ04VZZBR) 

Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, diplomats, lawyers, and advocates from around the world have pushed for ways to hold Vladimir Putin and other senior leaders accountable for starting the war. Those efforts include creating a court to prosecute the international crime of aggression – the illegal use of force by one country against another. 

But 3,000 miles south of the Russia-Ukraine border, another potential act of aggression has received far less attention. Over the past year and a half, Rwandan troops have conducted military operations in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and engaged in direct combat with the Congolese military and armed groups. According to the United Nations and human rights groups Rwandan troops have actively supported the March 23 Movement, M23, a Congolese armed group with longstanding ties to the Rwandan government. 

Accountability for the crime of aggression nmatters because acts of aggression can lead to other grave crimes, including war crimes and crimes against humanity. Punishing the crime of aggression is also essential to protecting the sovereign rights of all States, no matter their size or military strength. 

Joining the show to discuss the situation in the DRC, the arguments that Rwanda is committing acts of aggression against Congo, and Rwanda’s likely responses is Daniel Levine-Spound.

Daniel is a human rights lawyer and researcher. He is currently a Fellow at the Harvard Law School Program on International Law and Armed Conflict. Daniel was previously a U.N. Peacekeeping Researcher covering the DRC and South Sudan at the Center for Civilians in Conflict (CIVIC) and was based in Goma, DRC.

Show Notes: 

• Daniel Levine-Spound (@dlspound) 
• Paras Shah (@pshah518)
• Daniel’s Just Security article on potential acts of Rwandan aggression against the DRC 
• Just Security’s DRC coverage
• Just Security’s Rwanda coverage
• Just Security’s crime of aggression coverage
• Music: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)
• Music: “Caravan” by “Arend” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/arend/caravan (License code: QVHYMGIQGD5TGMEP)

Since former President Donald Trump was indicted for retaining sensitive government documents at Mar-a-Lago, the Espionage Act has become a household term. But only a small number of lawyers have seen an Espionage Act trial from the inside. Just Security has assembled an all-star roundtable of experienced federal prosecutors and defense attorneys who have handled high-profile Espionage Act cases. 

Joining the show to share their insights, experience, and views on Trump’s Espionage Act charges are David Aaron, Andrew Weissmann, and Jim Wyda. David and Jim have previously faced off from opposite sides of an Espionage Act prosecution, but they’ve come together for this special discussion. 

Before he joined private practice, David was a prosecutor at the Justice Department’s National Security Division. Andrew has served in many senior Justice Department roles, including on the leadership team for Special Counsel Robert Mueller and as the General Counsel of the FBI. Jim is the Federal Public Defender for the District of Maryland. 

This episode is hosted by Paras Shah, with co-production and editing by Tiffany Chang, Michelle Eigenheer, and Allison Mollenkamp. 

Show Notes:  

• David Aaron (@davidcaaron)
• Andrew Weissmann (@AWeissmann_) 
• James Wyda
• Paras Shah (@pshah518) 
• Just Security’s Espionage Act coverage
• Just Security’s classified information coverage
• Just Security’s coverage of Special Counsel Jack Smith 
• Just Security’s Trump Classified Docs Clearinghouse
• Brian D. Greer (@secretsandlaws) and Wendy Leben’s Just Security Podcast episode on the presidential classification and declassification process 
• Music: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)
• Music: “Covert Affair” by Kevin MacLeod from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/kevin-macleod/covert-affair (License code: Z20AS7IAZ04VZZBR)

Today, July 12, the leaders of NATO member countries are wrapping up a summit in Vilnius, Lithuania. The meeting opened as Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan ended his opposition to NATO membership for Sweden, and as President Biden said Ukraine still needs to take steps before it can join the Alliance. Biden further said Ukraine shouldn’t be admitted while Russia’s invasion continues because that would pit the Alliance directly against Russia.

In 2008, Alliance members vaguely promised that Ukraine could join NATO, but left the timing unspecified. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has made it clear he believes his country deserves membership, particularly as it fights for its survival against Russian aggression and defends democratic values.

But the agreement NATO members reached this week only offers Ukraine membership “when allies agree, and conditions are met,” though the Alliance did put together a package of weapons and security assurances in the meantime.

To discuss the summit and unpack its implications, we have Ambassador Daniel Fried. 

During his 40 years in the foreign service, Ambassador Fried played a central role in implementing U.S. policy in Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union. In several senior roles including, Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Ambassador Fried helped craft the policy of NATO enlargement to Central European countries and NATO-Russia relations. Earlier, he served as the U.S. Ambassador to Poland. He is currently the Weiser Family Distinguished Fellow at the Atlantic Council, which co-hosted a public forum with other think tanks as part of the NATO summit.  

Show Notes: 

• Ambassador Daniel Fried (@AmbDanFried) 
• Viola Gienger (@ViolaGienger)
• Ambassador Fried’s Just Security article previewing the NATO Summit 
• Just Security’s NATO coverage
• Just Security’s Russia-Ukraine war coverage
• Music: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)
• Music: “Underworld” by “Revo” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/revo/underworld (License code: MWDRAARUCSZNLOLV)

On July 4th a federal judge restricted the Biden administration from contacting social media companies about their content moderation policies. The court found that federal agencies, including the Department of Health and Human Services and the FBI, could not flag specific posts to social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter to encourage them to remove content. Though the order provides exceptions for the government to contact or notify social media companies about posts that involve crimes, national security threats, foreign attempts to influence elections, and other similar risks to public safety.

While an appeal in the case, Missouri v. Biden, is pending, the decision is a major development in the legal fight over online speech and the First Amendment. Some elected Republicans have accused social media sites like Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube of disproportionately silencing conservative viewpoints, while others argue that content moderation is necessary to prevent the spread of misinformation and hate speech. 

To unpack the initial decision in Missouri v. Biden, and what it means for the First Amendment and online speech, we have Mayze Teitler. 

Mayze is a Legal Fellow at the Knight First Amendment Institute where they focus on the surveillance of incarcerated people, spyware, and government transparency. 

Show Notes: 

• Mayze Teitler (@amteitler)
• Knight First Amendment Institute (@knightcolumbia) 
• Judge Doughty’s preliminary injunction order in Missouri v. Biden
• Leah Litman and Laurence Tribe’s Just Security article analyzing the decision 
• Music: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)
• Music: “The Air We Breathe” by Apex Music from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/apex-music/the-air-we-breathe (License code: W8V6DMNKHYYQ26Y8)

From massive floods, to sweeping hurricanes, to raging wildfires, climate disasters seem constant. Last November, the United Nation’s climate conference, COP 27, grabbed global headlines when countries reached a historic deal to compensate vulnerable countries for loss and damage from climate change. It’s easy to see the scale of that loss and damage. Lives are lost, cultural sites disappear, and infrastructure like roads and bridges are destroyed. 

But other aspects of climate change and its impact remain hidden from view. For people with disabilities, climate disasters can mean being abandoned by family and friends. And accessibility barriers can mean people with disabilities lack equal access to basic needs, like food and shelter. 

People with disabilities are the world’s largest minority. And disability doesn’t discriminate – anyone can acquire a disability at any time, no matter who they are or where they live. Creating inclusive disaster and climate response benefits all of us.  

To explain how climate disasters impact people with disabilities, and how response systems can be improved, we have Professor Michael Ashely Stein.

Dr. Stein is the co-founder and Executive Director of the Harvard Law School Project on Disability, and a Visiting Professor at Harvard Law School. He is an expert on disability law and policy and was active in the drafting of the U.N.’s Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. 

Show Notes:  

• Michael Ashley Stein
• Harvard Law School Project on Disability (HPOD) 
• Just Security’s coverage of COP27 and climate change
• 18:05 NYU’s American Journalism Online Program
• Music: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)
• Music: “Moving” by Brock Hewitt from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/brock-hewitt-stories-in-sound/moving (License code: 6SUZDR0XMAYULP1B)