We believe you should laugh and learn! 'The Intuitive Customer' podcast achieves this. Hosted by Colin Shaw, recognized as one of the top 150 business influencers by LinkedIn, where he has over 283,000 followers, and Prof. Ryan Hamilton, Emory University, discusses how you can improve your Customer Experience and gain growth.
This review sums up:
"The dynamic between the two hosts makes this podcast. Each brings a unique take on the topic and their own perspective and plays off each other sense of humor. I come away after each episode with a feeling of joy and feeling a bit smarter".
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Good Friction, Bad Friction: Why a Little Effort Makes Customers Care
Episode 413
Saturday, November 22, 2025 • Duration 25:03
Episode Overview
When everything is one-click easy, do we lose something meaningful? Guest host Dr. Morgan Ward joins Dr. Ryan Hamilton to explore how the right amount of friction in the consumption experience can boost connection, meaning, and long-term use of the product—while the wrong kind just gets in the way.
Quote of the Episode
"Consumption, in some ways, has just gotten too easy." — Dr. Morgan Ward
🔑 Key Takeaways
Easier isn't always better. Ultra-frictionless buying can strip away the identity, discovery, and accomplishment that make buying feel meaningful.
Effort signals value. From "chicken-juice coupons" to the IKEA effect, a little work can increase attachment and repeat use.
Design friction by segment. Introverts may love self-checkout; extroverts crave chatty lanes—know which experience your customers wants
Guide them but don't overwhelm. Keep choice in the journey (it's part of self-expression) but make it manageable and well-scaffolded.
Use friction where it adds meaning. Experiential or identity-laden consumption experiences benefit from challenge and discovery; utilitarian tasks should stay smooth.
Let search be satisfying. Curated discovery, small hurdles, or "surprise" moments can deliver the joy of the hunt without wasting time.
· When should there be friction in the consumption experience and when should there not be?
About the Hosts
Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press 2025
Morgan Ward is an adjunct marketing professor, weekly expert guest on The Take—11Alive's in-depth news program that explores timely stories through expert insight—With over 20 years of experience advising clients ranging from start-ups to Fortune 500s and publishing in top academic journals, she's passionate about decoding the symbolic and cultural forces that shape consumer behavior. Her work focuses on status, identity, and decision-making across sectors like luxury, retail, and tech. Beyond consulting, Morgan serves as an expert witness in branding and advertising litigation, bringing academic rigor to questions of perception, distinctiveness, and influence.
I Signed a 'Gag Order'. Here's What It Taught Me About Organizations
Episode 414
Saturday, November 8, 2025 • Duration 27:52
In this episode, Colin Shaw shares a recent personal experience with a major brand that imposed a 'gag order' (NDA) after a poor service experience — and how this reflects a deeper organizational issue: silos. Together with Professor Ryan Hamilton, Colin explores why siloed thinking leads to incoherent customer experiences, how internal motivations can conflict with CX goals, and what leaders must do to ensure learning, trust, and advocacy remain priorities. A must-listen for CX professionals and senior leaders alike.
Best Quote:
"Who decides? That is the question every leadership team should ask — and answer wisely."
Key Takeaways:
Organizational silos often lead to decisions that prioritise risk management over customer experience.
Legal and PR functions may act rationally within their remit, but this can result in poor CX outcomes without CX leadership involvement.
Service recovery is a powerful opportunity to build trust and advocacy — if handled thoughtfully.
The presence of gag orders may indicate systemic issues that need urgent attention.
CX leaders must break silos, promote organisational learning, and ensure customer trust is considered in every critical decision.
AI vs. Human: Are You Making The Right Choice or a BIG Mistake!
Episode 405
Saturday, July 5, 2025 • Duration 30:27
AI is taking over—well, at least some parts of customer service. But how do you know when to automate and when to stick with the good old-fashioned human touch? In this episode, we dive into one of the most crucial decisions organizations are making today: When should you use AI, and when do customers actually need a human?
Spoiler alert: If you let AI handle everything, you might save money—but you could also drive your customers straight to your competitors.
Best Quote from the Episode:
"You don't want AI handling a $300 million defense contract. 'Hello! I see you're interested in missile systems. Would you like fries with that?'"
Key Takeaways:
AI Should Enhance, Not Replace – AI can automate routine interactions, but when emotions are high (like fraud issues or complaints), a human is still king.
The Wrong Cost-Cutting Strategy Can Cost You More – AI might save money upfront, but if it frustrates customers, it can drive them away.
Know Your Audience – Some customers love chatbots; others despise them. Testing is critical.
Context Matters – A simple question like checking an account balance? AI can handle it. A frustrated customer dealing with a major issue? Bring in the humans.
AI + Humans = The Winning Formula – Studies show AI-generated emails can be more empathetic than human ones (yes, really!), but the best approach is using AI to support human interactions, not replace them.
Why You Should Listen:
If you're thinking about rolling out AI across your customer experience, stop and listen to this episode first. We break down the risks, the rewards, and how to make sure you don't end up with a frustrated customer base ready to rage-tweet about you.
Resources Mentioned
Wall Street Journal Article: Turns Out AI Is More Empathetic Than Allstate's Insurance Reps
Learn how the time Customers wait reveals how internally focused you are
Saturday, August 19, 2023 • Duration 29:40
Waiting around for a customer experience is rarely a good thing. When customers are waiting for you, that's usually a sign that not waiting would have been difficult or inconvenient (read: expensive) for your company. However, not valuing customers' time is probably the most expensive mistake you can make.
Then, of course, there are the times when the waiting is part of the experience. For example, the Peter Pan ride at Disneyland has several rooms you pass through before you get to the ride that set the mood and build anticipation of the adventure to come. When you skip it, you get to the ride faster, but you miss out on the building of the anticipation.
Part of what makes the Peter Pan wait more beneficial than your average waiting around situation for an experience is that it make the waiting more enjoyable. Many would also argue that the ride—and the park itself—provide value to customers who are waiting.
So, waiting isn't always bad; like many things we discuss on the podcast, it depends. However, it does always reveal how internally focused you are and whether you place importance on the value of customers' time.
In this episode, we explore what it means about your focus when customers wait and how you can manage or enhance the waiting experience to engage and enhance customers' time spent with you.
Here are some other key moments in the discussion:
02:59 After sharing some stories about waiting that made him feel cross, Colin explains that you need to value customers' time in your experience.
10:33 We discuss how Disney manages wait time by offering Fast Track to reduce queue wait times, and signs in line that estimate how much longer you have to wait before the ride.
16:17 We talk about when waits are good for building anticipation; and how sometimes the wait is even better than the experience.
24:21 Ryan explains that his kids are excited about some changes to Minecraft that are coming that they had to wait for; and what they were waiting for might surprise you.
26:59 We suspend the conversation, and explain that listeners will have to wait to hear about the rest of the topic on next week's episode. (See what we did there?)
Critical Thinking: Where are you on this new customer time paradigm?
Saturday, August 12, 2023 • Duration 31:35
I get mad when people waste my time. It's probably why I have such a beef with cable companies and organizations' call centers that have long hold times. Wasting someone's time is also a waste of an opportunity to deliver an excellent customer experience.
The source of my ire is likely tied to time being our most precious resource by some estimations. Therefore, when you waste it, you are careless with something with a finite supply. Some of us have more than others available—or left as the case may be.
So, when an organization wastes customers' time, it can be one of the worst things they could do to increase customer loyalty and customer-driven growth. Would you want to be anxious to return to an experience that wasted yours? Not bloody likely, I say.
By contrast, saving time is among the most essential things you could do for a customer. People will pay a premium for it, too.
Regarding time and customers, one of the most essential things you can do is to make it worthwhile. In other words, any time customers give you should return to them as a memory of time well spent.
The ideas expressed thus far here are not ours. Time progression is a critical area that key opinion leaders in the experience economy are exploring these days.
In this episode, we host Strategic Horizons' Joe Pine, author of The Experience Economy and co-founder of the concept of Time Progression, to discuss what that means and how it can influence how customers respond to your experience.
Here are some other critical moments in the discussion:
03:22 Colin asks Pine to explain the concept of Time Progression to the listeners who have yet to become familiar with it.
09:49 We discuss organizations doing interesting things with time analysis that companies would be wise to emulate and those that have decided to take up more customer time that companies should not.
How perception plays a critical role in building a great Customer Experience
Saturday, August 5, 2023 • Duration 31:00
We have all been there. We think we did something great, and we look forward to getting the feedback that tells us so. Unfortunately, when we do get the feedback, we discover that we weren't quite so great as we thought we were. It's a matter of perception and understanding this concept can help avoid this mismatch in the future.
One of our listeners, Damien, found himself in this pickle recently. His organization has delivery stats that paint a glorious picture of achievement. However, the customer surveys do not paint delivery with that brush at all. So, Damien asks, why the discrepancy?
The problem could be a challenge with perception. The internal organization has one perception of performance, the customers have another. If perception is reality, which one matters?
(Hint: say the customers. Okay, not a hint so much as a gimme, but we do our best here.)
From a psychological perspective, perception isn't the correct term. In fact, psychologists would only have perception as one part of what is going on here. To summarize, psychologists would submit that perception applies only to receiving the information through our senses. How we interpret and compare the perceived experiences to our expectations is the reason for the discrepancy.
In this episode, we take a deeper dive on what is happening here to Damien's organization, and what they—and you— can do about it.
Here are some other key moments in the discussion:
02:05 We hear about Damien's pickle and why he needed our help. (Do you have a business pickle, too? Tell us about it here.)
05:00 Before we move further into solving Damien's pickle, we define our terms in the style of psychology.
10:24 Ryan ignores Colin's request to get practical by exploring a very heady and philosophical example, Plato's Allegory of the Cave.
17:10 Colin explains how you can learn more about perception, interpretation, and evaluation of an experience and how it relates to memory by shopping for a TV in a showroom.
Want to build a successful career? Follow these key insights
Saturday, July 29, 2023 • Duration 30:35
18 months. That was the timeline Colin gave himself to move from a sales job to a general manager post. It was a long time ago now, the kind of thing one remembers when they look back over a decades-long career.
However, it also worked. Colin did make that transition, moving throughout departments and learning new skills, and always with the goal of moving to general manager.
Ryan, being from academia, teaches an introductory marketing course to his MBA students. It's a class they take first semester when their enthusiasm and exuberance are high.
This abundance of energy also drives them to his office during office hours, hoping for some career advice. As an academic, Ryan has some for them, but recognizes that there is always room for more.
In this episode, we explore the key insights we have gained over the spans of our careers and share them with you. From taking advice from Colin's father to learning how to navigate the political quagmires that many organizations foster, we give you some areas to focus on to get where you want to go.
Here are some other key moments in the discussion:
04:06 We kick it off by explaining that over the years we have seen jobs come and go and job come from out of nowhere that can change the course of a career for good or ill.
08:39 Colin shares some advice he learned from his dad, which on its face seems simple, but in truth is the one thing everybody looks for and appreciates.
12:30 We talk about the importance of looking down the road in a career rather than on the part right in front of you; you don't want to be 50 or 60 and realize that you were headed the wrong way.
17:19 We share a strategy that seems counterintuitive, that sometimes the way forward is taking a step back or sideways.
20:17 Colin discusses how there is always something to learn, even in a bad job, so don't forget to notice what you shouldn't do in your career.
25:00 We talk politics (no, not those politics), and how you can use them to your advantage when you understand them in your organization.
What really is an authentic experience and does it really drive growth?
Saturday, July 22, 2023 • Duration 34:43
At first glance, authenticity appears straightforward. To be authentic, one simply needs to be genuine in their thoughts and actions. However, as is often the case with our discussions in the podcast, the subject becomes complex under scrutiny.
Our motivation to discuss authenticity stems from a podcast listener's request. They find themselves grappling with authenticity in their experience and want to know how to improve and leverage it to generate growth with their customers.
Consider the Sherlock Holmes Museum in London. It has meticulously recreated Holmes's apartment. As part of the London School's team, Professor Kent Grayson, MA, PhD, a scholar fascinated by authenticity, would engage museum visitors by posing a seemingly absurd question: Is the apartment portrayed in the museum authentic?
However, it's a silly question. It cannot be authentic since Sherlock Holmes himself lacks authenticity.
Nevertheless, individuals earnestly responded to Professor Grayson's query. Some offered genuine critiques, pointing out anachronistic furniture pieces and other details. It was ironic that the attendees thought that the fictional place inhabited by an imaginary detective was inauthentic because the end table was from the wrong period…but there it is.
In this podcast, we discuss authenticity and how it matters in Customer Experiences. What we discover is elementary, our dear Watsons.
Here are some other key moments in the discussion:
02:05 Ryan explains about the London Business School Professors research about the authenticity of the Sherlock Holmes Museum.
07:02 We discuss how a thing doesn't have to be real to be authentic; it just has to feel real.
13:22 Colin explains that every experience is authentic; however, what it reflects about an organization might not be what customer want or value.
20:38 We cover the idea that the customer perception is key, so making customers feel an experience is authentic is essential.
30:03 We discuss the key takeaways that we have from this discussion and how it can help your experience.
How do we differentiate our experience in an ever competitive world?
Saturday, July 15, 2023 • Duration 31:38
Have you ever noticed how many vitamin options there are at a drug store? If not, you should know there are hundreds. It is bloody overwhelming.
All these vitamins got us thinking about differentiation. If your product isn't that different from another, like a B-12 vitamin, how do you differentiate yourself from the competition?
Vitamin companies are not alone here. One of our listeners wrote in with a business pickle about differentiation on how to have it in an ever-competitive market. The answer lies in the experience.
But how? What does differentiation even mean? And what does B-12 do for you anyway? (It does lots of stuff, by the way; you should probably take it if you don't get enough.)
When you are too close to something, you might have a hard time seeing what your differentiation could be. Your usually helpful depth of offering knowledge can be a hinderance. The nuances of competitive improvement might be authentic but too deep in the minutiae to distinguish you.
In other words, your competitive advantage might be real, but really boring to your customers. So, instead of coming up with something that is a competitive differentiator, you come up with this minor detail, emphasizing something the customer doesn't care about or doesn't recognize they should.
Therefore, it takes an outside perspective sometimes to see what is possible regarding differentiation. And sometimes, this differentiation from the outside is disruptive and turns everything in your industry on its ear.
In this episode, we explore the ways our listener and you can differentiate yourself from the competition. As a bonus, we package it into five rules that you can use to drive your actions.
Here are some other key moments in the discussion:
06:44 We kick off the discussion with the first rule, which tells us that different means different and not just a little different. (They do get better, we promise.)
10:07 We get into the discussion about how disruption is often the key to differentiation that matters; otherwise, everyone ends up chasing the same goals and having little variance from one another.
How to avoid this preventable mistake too many are making with AI
Saturday, July 8, 2023 • Duration 34:14
Many organizations are making a common mistake when it comes to AI. They fail to capitalize on the potential to enhance Customer Experiences through this powerful technology by building it incorrectly. By changing their strategic approach, they could gain a significant competitive advantage.
Take, for instance, a telecom company that developed an AI system to detect customer churn. While it successfully identified customers likely to churn, it fell short in explaining why they were leaving.
Here's the issue: AI models excel at predicting customer behavior but lack the ability to establish meaningful connections and provide context for the data. It's akin to Deep Thought from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy revealing that the answer to life, the universe, and everything is 42. It may be a correct answer, but we're left without understanding the underlying context.
The mistake lies in how organizations set up their AI systems. The outcome resembles the ambiguous answer of 42. What we truly need is the context that explains the reasons behind it.
In this episode, we explore the mistake many organizations are making with AI and what might happen if the Flat Earthers get a hold of it. Chances are their answer will be about as useful as 42.
Here are some other key moments in the discussion:
01:42 Colin kicks it off by asking how to link together The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Flat Earthers, and Artificial Intelligence, and how that relates to the opportunity inherent in AI systems.
14:44 Colin explains what Flat Earthers have to do with all this, and explains what they believe, suggesting that listeners watch this clip from the ABC News YouTube channel.
20:08 Colin share the big danger of all this, particularly when you consider the parts of that are coming as a new wave of change.
About the Hosts:
Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn.
Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press 2025
Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 86,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn.
Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn.
Click HERE to learn more about Professor Ryan Hamilton of Emory University.
To learn more about Beyond Philosophy's Suite of Services Click here.
21:51 Colin shares a story about how he thought the Princess Lunch at Disneyland Paris was expensive; for the record, he didn't go alone but brought along his grandchildren.
27:20 We share our practical advice for how to understand how there was such a discrepancy in perception between Damien's organization and customers, and what to do about it.
Click HERE to learn more about Professor Ryan Hamilton of Emory University.
To learn more about Beyond Philosophy's Suite of Services Click here.
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