The Interim – Details, episodes & analysis

Welcome to the series finale of The Interim. We find ourselves in a unique moment in history—suspended between the traditional workflows of the past and a sci-fi future driven by Artificial Intelligence. To help us navigate this transition, Duncan Stott sits down with futurist and strategic advisor Alfred Bieler.

With a pedigree that includes leading innovation at Google and Microsoft, Alfred argues that the biggest mistakes leaders make during this ‘interim’ period have nothing to do with software, and everything to do with soul. From the dangers of 'fake success' to the reason every high-performing team needs a resident 'alien,' this episode is a masterclass in why a healthy culture is the only way to truly unlock the power of AI. If you’ve ever wondered if your organization is actually ready for the future, or just playing with expensive toys, this conversation is for you.

The "Purpose" Trap

Alfred emphasizes that technology without clarity is dangerous. He shares an anecdote about a Google engineer who trained a model to optimize energy efficiency; the model suggested turning the servers off entirely. Technically, it was 100% efficient, but it defeated the purpose. Leaders must define the why before the how, or they risk teams exploring in random, competing directions.

Culture Over Toolsets

The phrase "culture eats technology for breakfast" is a central theme. Alfred notes that two companies can use the exact same AI tool, yet one will thrive while the other fails. The difference lies in:

• Radical Honesty: Moving away from "fake success" (celebrating vanity metrics like clicks) toward admitting when a project isn’t working.
• Psychological Safety: Creating an environment where people can challenge the AI's output rather than accepting "vanilla" or "hallucinated" results.

The Power of the "Alien"

Alfred cites research on "critical friends." He explains that teams composed only of friends often reach consensus too quickly and perform worse. By introducing an "alien"—someone with a different perspective who asks "Why are we doing this?"—friction is created. While this makes the work feel "harder" and more exhausting, it leads to significantly higher-quality outcomes.

From Artificial to "Augmented" Intelligence

The guest reframes the job-loss debate. He views AI as Augmented Intelligence—a tool to provide information for better human decision-making.

• The Productivity Paradox: Rather than using AI to simply "run faster" and burn out, Alfred hopes humanity uses the saved time to "slow down" and think more deeply.
• Bespoke over Generic: While Large Language Models (like ChatGPT) are "table stakes," the real business advantage lies in bespoke Machine Learning trained on a company’s unique, proprietary data.

The CEO’s First Step

For leaders feeling overwhelmed by AI strategy, Alfred’s advice is counter-intuitive: Don’t start with the easy stuff. He suggests finding a critical friend and asking, "What is the biggest threat that is going to eat us alive?" Solving the scariest problem is a better use of AI than automating minor tasks in an irrelevant business model.

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What does the AI revolution mean for Interims? In this episode, we sit down with Mandie Beitner, an experienced AI and transformation leader sharing the fascinating details of defining an AI strategy and implementing AI at scale—a challenge few have tackled. If you're an interim, a transformation leader, or just trying to navigate the rapid evolution of AI in business, this conversation is packed with actionable insights that will really help..

Mandie Beitner is an AI & Transformation leader, she has held senior permanent positions in finance, legal, tech and energy including at HSBC and Belron where she led major transformations.  And latterly she has been an Interim doing similar transformation work including being the Interim AI Director at ARM, leading ARM’s AI transformation, defining AI strategy and how to embed AI at scale.  So this is going to be fascinating….

These are my take-homes from that discussion with Mandie Beitner.  She explained the unique challenges and immense opportunities of leading large-scale organizational change, particularly in the context Artificial Intelligence. 

• AI Transformation at Scale: Mandie recounts her time as an interim AI Director at ARM, emphasizing that even a trailblazing organization faces common challenges: managing the speed of AI development, addressing employee fears about job impact, and overcoming general resistance to change. She highlights that AI adoption is fundamentally a comprehensive organizational transformation requiring the reimagining of people, processes, and technology. Her initial mandate was to bring structure, visibility, and a decision-making framework to the existing AI journey.
• The "Sortted" Framework: Mandie introduces her proprietary, data-driven framework, 'Sortted' (Strategy, Operational Redesign, Reporting, Team, Technology, Data), which she uses to quickly diagnose organizational health and align execution with strategic goals. This framework ensures that people, data, and delivery all pull in the same direction to meet strategic goals, and is specifically designed to help interims land fast and assemble order.
• The Future of Interim Leadership in the AI era: Mandie asserts that the success of future interim leaders will be measured by their fluency in AI and their ability to use AI tools as a multiplier to amplify delivery and personal productivity. Interims must be comfortable with the ambiguity and speed of new technology, acting as a chameleon to adapt to different organizational paces.
• The Power of Interim objectivity: The discussion explores the core value an interim brings: the ability to see the "whole pie" and provide a fresh, objective pair of eyes to complex organizational structures. This objectivity, coupled with their independence, grants them the intellectual authority to state their observations and recommendations without fear or favor, helping the business move in the right direction.
• Emotional resilience and the Interim life: Mandie shares the emotional highs and lows of being an interim. While she loves the constant change, learning, and the "light bulb moment" of seeing positive results, the most difficult challenge is the required emotional resilience to frequently walk away from projects and teams when the contract ends.

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This podcast talks about a top priority for every interim.  Are you clear what your distinct value proposition is, your professional product is, what you can do for a client?  It’s what you do really well and there are people out there who need it.  You know it, recruiters know it and clients hear about it too.  That’s your superpower and it’s the way to find work as an interim.

I am very pleased to be in conversation with David Estyn-Jones.  David is a very experienced Interim, he leads Transformations and Change programme.  His key strengths are keeping things simple, focusing on the right things and building collaboration.

Summary.

·       Journey into Interim. David shares his journey into interim work, highlighting how his project and mission-focused background (including 10 years as an army officer) made it a natural fit. He emphasizes the appeal of variety, adventure, and the thrill of the unknown, noting that experience actually enhances an interim's employability.

·       Lessons learned: David reflects on what he wishes he knew earlier, including the importance of organising your limited company, defining your value proposition, clearly articulating what problems you solve and why you are special, rather than chasing any available work.

·       Continuous professional development: Actively pursuing learning and development, as it's easy for this to fall by the wayside in an interim career.  While interim roles offer inherent learning through exposure to new sectors and ways of working, David stresses the importance of continuous development. He highlights how the interim life pushes professionals to constantly evolve, contrasting it with a potential stagnation seen in permanent roles. 

·       Finding assignments and building your brand: David explains that work comes from a mix of recruiters and networking.  He advises be visible, maintain an active presence on LinkedIn, clearly define your "product" – what you do, the problems you solve, and what makes you unique.  Cultivate Relationships with recruiters and ensure your network understands your value.

·       The Interim Temperament: David emphasises that successful interims are comfortable with uncertainty, embracing the unknown and adapting to diverse work environments.  They are capable of selling themselves and actively seeking new opportunities.  And they know when an assignment is complete and are willing to inform the client, even if it means moving on to an unknown next step. This integrity is part of the premium interims charge.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Interim.  Our purpose is to give you thoughts, feed your curiosity, and energise you for professional success.  Go well.

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What are the 7 habits of highly effective interims?  Today, we're diving deep into the very DNA of what makes an interim truly effective.   We're talking about the unspoken, the invaluable, those habits that truly set apart the highly effective among us.

I am very pleased today to be in conversation with Ben Cowan.  Ben is Head of Practice for Business Transformation at Eton Bridge and has 2 decades of interim recruitment experience.  Eton Bridge is a leading interim management firm, head quartered in the UK and has made placements in 35 countries.  They are known for their people-first culture built on respect, care and building long-term relationships.

This podcast episode pays homage to Stephen Covey's seminal 1989 work, "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," a book that revolutionised self-help and business.  I’ve asked Ben to reflect on the 7 Habits of Highly Effective Interims.

1. Character Traits: Effective interims are confident (not arrogant), impactful, proactive, likable, reliable, and dependable. These qualities are crucial for quickly integrating into new organizations and gaining trust. Ben emphasizes that these traits are rarely visible on a CV but are paramount in real-world interactions.
2. Communication: Clear and effective communication is vital. Interims must be able to put people at ease, reassure clients, and deliver messages effectively at all levels – from the C-suite to the "shop floor." Ben talks about the ability to storytell and paint a clear picture of change or difficult messages.
3. Skills and Experience: While not the only factor, being an expert in one's field and having a unique selling proposition (USP) is critical. The best interims are known for something specific ("what are you famous for?"). It's not just about having the skills, but how they are conveyed and the tangible results achieved (e.g., using "I owned," "I delivered" rather than "I was involved in").
4. Resilience: Interims often enter ambiguous and challenging situations where they are constantly being judged. Adaptability and resilience are key to navigating these environments, challenging the status quo, and accepting situations that may not be ideal. The ability to maintain an "inner strength" and stand behind one's professional opinion, even if it's not immediately accepted, is crucial. Being a problem-solver is also a significant aspect of resilience.
5. Outcomes and Results Focus: Highly effective interims are laser-focused on delivery and achieving strategic outcomes. They bring solutions, are decisive, and operate at pace, often needing to "break eggs to make an omelet" in order to achieve the desired results. Remaining calm under pressure is also linked to this habit.
6. Behaviour When Not in a Role: This habit focuses on how interims manage their time and relationships between assignments. It involves the "art" of gently prompting providers (e.g., quick texts, LinkedIn messages, occasional catch-ups) without being pushy or pestering. It also emphasizes patience, knowing one's worth, and not appearing desperate. Maintaining personal networks and avoiding one-sided relationships is also highlighted.
7. Sharpening Your Saw: The final habit is about continual learning, staying relevant, and evolving one's skillset. This includes staying at the forefront of industry trends, especially in technology, and actively engaging in thought leadership and peer conversations to keep fresh and adapt to the changing business landscape.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Interim.  Our purpose is to give you thoughts, feed your curiosity, and energise you for professional success.

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Are you an interim professional looking to not just survive, but thrive? Join us as we sit down with a very experienced interim sharing his journey from PwC partner into Interim, giving advice about building a successful interim career, prioritizing well-being, and embracing the evolving landscape of fractional.  This episode is about the secrets to sustained success!

Mark Lockton is the founder and CEO of a niche technology consultancy company providing real-world advice to large international clients, basing this on his long career of Interim CIO and CTO roles, as well as senior roles in the big 4 consultancy firms.   

• Much of our conversation was about how we develop our careers, our craft, and how we manage ourselves.  Mark emphasized that becoming a successful executive is a learned skill, acquired through experience.  Interim roles offer a unique opportunity to gain experience across a wide variety of companies and industries, building a broad "tool bag" of skills and insights.  And so Mark has honed his craft - we are always learning.
• Mark highlights the demanding nature of interim roles and shares a powerful lesson from a "partner survival course" at PwC: the importance of establishing "non-negotiables" and boundaries. For him, this means working hard through the week but strictly no work on weekends or during holidays.
• Mark foresees a growing reliance on fractional and interim resources, especially for companies that need senior expertise in areas but cannot afford a full-time hire.
• Mark has great insight into both Interims and the Big Four Consultancies, having been a partner with them).   He noted that many Big Four consultants lack as much real-world, client-side experience as Interims who have "been there, done that," offer practical, experience-proven solutions.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Interim.  Our purpose is to give you food for thought, feed your curiosity, and energise you for professional success.  Go well.

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Are you sure you’re charging your correct day rate?  As an interim executive, setting your day rate can feel like navigating a minefield.  It’s difficult to know.  Head-hunters, client expectations, and the big question, 'What am I actually worth?'  Join us as we pull back the curtain on interim pricing. We’ll talk about how to respond, when to respond and what your response says.

I am very pleased to be in conversation with Nick Diprose.  Nick started his career with British Steel working in large infrastructure projects, and has spent  the last 20 years growing professional services businesses.  He founded Holdsway in 2013 with the goal of promoting interim executives as the ‘expert game changers’ of the economy.  

·       Value over Price: Nick emphasizes that the conversation should start with understanding the client's needs and the value the interim can bring, rather than immediately focusing on price. Interims offer a solution, we’re not a commodity. 

·       Have a Range, But Don't Lead with Price: While it's crucial to have a day rate range in mind, revealing it too early, before understanding the assignment's complexity and scope, can be detrimental. Listen first, then position your value. 

·       Confidence is Key: Projecting confidence in your value is essential. Asking head-hunters what they think you're worth undermines your position as an expert. Know your worth and be prepared to state it (within a range).

·       Market Awareness: The Institute of Interim Management survey can offer some guidance. Experienced recruiters can also provide insights into market rates. 

·       Negotiation is Part of the Game: Pricing is often a negotiation. Don't be afraid to aim high initially, understanding that there might be room for slight adjustments. A price inquiry often signals genuine interest. 

·       Focus on the Right Work: Ultimately, securing the right assignment that aligns with your skills and career goals is an abundant life, even if it means slightly adjusting your rate within your acceptable range.

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Fractional Interim work. You've heard the buzz, but what exactly is it and how could you be part of this growing trend?  Today I sit down with an expert practitioner, a leading voice in the fractional space, to get the definitive answer. We define the model and discuss secrets of success, listen in.

Today, I'm really pleased to be in conversation with Adrian Wakefield.

Adrian Wakefield is co-founder of The Digital WoW Group, a purpose driven, fractional technology leadership & consulting business.  He has 35 years’ experience in technology-enabled transformation, the past 8 years as an interim. Before that Adrian enjoyed a successful career in manufacturing operations, supply chain and technology ending up as the CIO / Board Director of a global manufacturing/engineering group.

Adrian defined the concept of fractional work as a model where organizations access top-tier talent, without the overhead of full-time employment. H emphasized that successful fractional work is based on a mature relationship between the consultant and the client, emphasizing outcome-driven work rather than simply hours. Adrian discusses the rise of fractional work, and the growing pool of experienced professionals in this field.

I am going to remember Adrian’s motto “You never know where a conversation will go”.  He does it like a master, he talks about listening, being present and unbiased with an altruistic spirit.  It isn’t surprising, is it, that many of these conversations lead to business, I really admire that he doesn’t set-off into them with that defined purpose.

Finally, we explored future trends in the portfolio, interim, and fractional worlds, with Adrian predicting continued growth driven by increasing awareness and acceptance of these flexible working models. He shares his personal mantra of staying present and curious in conversations, emphasizing the value of building genuine relationships. Adrian concluded, reflecting like me about so many people who have helped us, and offering to to connect with individuals interested in exploring fractional work. 

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If you are contemplating your career you may be thinking of working with a coach.  Coaches play a vital role - they are  facilitators, guides, and sounding boards.  Their questioning helps the exploration process, enabling self-discovery and ultimately helping people find clarity, confidence, and direction in their professional lives.

Today, I'm really pleased to be in conversation with David Head.  David is an executive coach and career coach who offers deeply personalized coaching and mentoring. He empowers individuals to maximise their performance and thrive in their careers and to confidently navigate significant career transitions when the time is right.  I am so grateful to have him here today to share his advice and insights with us.

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Join us exploring the increasing trend from traditional careers to flexible, portfolio-based work.  We look into the motivations driving executives towards this dynamic new career, and uncover the practical steps individuals need to thrive make it a success.

I'm in conversation with Caroline McAuliffe.  Caroline is a Senior Partner in Interim Search for Watermark in Sydney.  She’s the co-author of an excellent book called The Rise of the Interim Executive and has been in Interim Search for 18 years.

1.      The Rise of Portfolio Careers: The traditional, linear career path is being replaced by portfolio careers, offering executives more variety, control, and a greater sense of fulfillment in their professional lives.

2.      Practical Steps for Transitioning: 

• Mindset Shift: Executives must adopt a mindset of ownership and self-agency, taking responsibility for their financial stability, professional development, and career progression, unlike the support provided by traditional employers.
• Risk Assessment and Scenario Planning: Understanding one's risk profile, including comfort with potential gaps between assignments and income needs, is crucial.
• Growth Mindset: Embracing openness and curiosity towards new skills and experiences is essential.
• Skills Assessment: Identifying current skills and experience, along with any gaps that need addressing, is vital.
• Defining Values and Success: Understanding personal values and what constitutes success will guide decisions about which opportunities to pursue.
• Financial Planning: Proactive financial planning is a fundamental requirement for managing the variable income streams of a portfolio career.
• Networking: Building a broader and more diverse network beyond one's traditional industry is crucial for securing new opportunities.
• Personal Branding: Actively managing one's personal brand, communicating values and expertise, becomes a daily full-time job.

3.      The Importance of "Superpowers": While executives often possess broad general skills, identifying and articulating specific areas of deep expertise and recent, relevant experience ("superpowers") is key for interim roles. Search firms focus on these recent "currencies" to match candidates with current client needs.  Carolyn talks about Lifelong Learning: Staying current.  Ref earlier podcast with Jacinta Whelan.

4.      Cautionary Advice: 

• Being committed – seeing through an assignment.
• Being open to seeking assistance, such as from executive coaches, is important.
• Being cautious about taking on roles that are not a good fit is crucial for maintaining one's brand and future prospects.

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Today, we talk about financial planning for Interims - how can we handle the fluctuating incomes and the risks that come with our independence.  We are joined by a financial advisor who will give us a financial health check.  He will guide us through how interims need to manage their finances, from budgeting to insurance, and offer invaluable practical advice.

Dominic Brockes has 26 years of financial services experience as an Adviser helping personal and corporate clients.

Dominic focuses on the unique financial requirements of being an Interim such as fluctuating income and the need for proactive financial planning and the lack of financial protections that our permanent colleagues often get without noticing from their employers.  And so we need to make sure we’re doing the sensible things too.

He gives practical advice about budgeting,  an emergency fund, investment strategies (regular savings and lump sums), and understanding salary vs. dividends.

Finally Dominic underlines the importance of protection. The discussion on insurance (life cover, income protection) is crucial and highlights an often-overlooked aspect of financial planning.  Prioritize insurance (protection) before investing. This includes life insurance (to cover debt and provide income for family), income protection (in case of illness or injury), and potentially private medical insurance.

There is lots here to think about, hoping you all weigh it up and know what you need to do.

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