The Intentional Career Podcast shares how all kinds of people take all kinds of paths to do work they love. Get inspired to create your Intentional Career by hearing the stories of folks who have done just that. Hosted by Career and Life Coach Karen Styles of Flow + Fire Coaching.
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Online Business and Growing up in a Cult with Tarzan Kay
Season 2 · Episode 6
Wednesday, February 15, 2023 • Duration 53:01
Tarzan Kay came to a pivotal moment in 2022 when she had to drastically change her email marketing business. I talked to her when she was fresh off those changes, curious about how she had the courage to get through it. We talk about unethical sales methods, my shocking discovery that we both grew up in the same cult, and how this has affected our businesses.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching.
My guest is Tarzan Kay. Tarzan is an email marketing expert who teaches how to sell big with truth-infused, story-based emails. She is a former copywriter-for-hire who specializes in emails that are fun to read, and more addictive than Netflix.
Her online courses teach how to write story-based copy and make consistent sales from a small email list, without using fear or FOMO. Her company’s mission is to make high-integrity marketing the new status quo for online business.
Interview Highlights:
Tarzan’s work in email marketing
When I realized I grew up in the same cult as Tarzan
How growing up in a coercive control group affects work
The changes Tarzan has made in her work, after being called in
The drastic changes she recently made to her business
Why anti-racism and anti-oppression work is important for the coaching industry
Check out my website at flowandfire.com to schedule a consult, join my email list or hire me as your coach. Or, follow on Instagram or LinkedIn.
The Cost of Not Listening to Yourself with host Karen Styles
Season 2 · Episode 5
Monday, November 7, 2022 • Duration 09:13
In this mini-episode, I share my musings on the potential cost of not listening to yourself. Why does ignoring your desires matter anyway? Hint: it’s connected to Career Courage.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach, and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching.
Highlights:
Realizing I wasn’t listening to my desires
Wondering why I don’t listen
Why does listening to yourself even matter?
How is listening to yourself connected to Career Courage?
Check out my website at flowandfire.com to schedule a consult, join my email list or hire me as your coach. Or, follow on Instagram or LinkedIn.
Saying What You Want Out Loud and What To Do When Your Life Falls Apart with Diana Alt
Season 2 · Episode 4
Wednesday, October 5, 2022 • Duration 49:43
Diana Alt is a friend and career coach colleague. We talk about her transition from tech into coaching, her 4 Pillars of an Ideal Job, and what to do when your life falls apart.
My guest is Diana Alt is a no-BS executive coach and career growth strategist who helps people take charge of aligning life and livelihood. Diana uses her 20+ years of experience in corporate product development roles to help people get out of their own way by building confidence, setting boundaries, and casting a vision for an awesome career and life. She believes work should feel good, not like a long slow march towards oblivion. Diana helps individuals and organizations to make work awesome through her coaching, consulting, and training services. She helps people identify ideal work for them and execute an effective job search strategy. She also helps people identify ways to update the way they work in their current jobs and businesses to align with the life they want.
Interview Highlights:
Why you should say what you want out loud
Diana’s transition from the tech industry to coaching
Coaching Briana: Am I a Failure as a Freelancer for Going Back to Work?
Season 2 · Episode 3
Wednesday, September 21, 2022 • Duration 30:20
This episode is an excerpt from a coaching session with Briana, a freelance writer who recently accepted temporary employment. But even though she’s uncovered some new skills, she’s struggling with it. Does she like this work? Does it mean she’s a failure if she goes back to work for someone else? What about the financial uncertainty of being self-employed?
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching. I offered a few of these coaching sessions in fall of 2021, with the intent of sharing them on the podcast. Briana agreed to have this session recorded and we’ve kept her work details purposely vague.
Job Hopping as a Strength and Knowing When to Quit Your Job with Chelsea Jay
Season 2 · Episode 2
Wednesday, September 7, 2022 • Duration 39:08
Interview with Chelsea Jay, Leadership Coach. I absolutely loved our conversation on job hopping, red flags at work, having courage in your career, and how to know when it’s time to quit your job.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching.
My guest is Chelsea Jay. Chelsea is the owner and founder of Seasoned and Growing where she helps professionals across the globe build careers they love! She is a Nationally Certified Resume Writer (1 of only 60), Online Branding Expert, and podcast host of “The Chelsea Jay Experience.” She also holds certifications in career and life coaching.
Chelsea is known throughout the career development industry for her bold, unapologetic, and straight shooter methods when it comes to tackling the job search, building professional brands, and climbing the ladder quickly (with less stress). She helps professionals across the globe rebuild their confidence, improve their mindsets, develop (and execute!) goals, and most importantly, break free from toxic environments in order to build a thriving career.
Interview Highlights:
Why job hoppers have more interesting resumes and careers
The benefits of job hopping
Red flags and intuition in the workplace
Chelsea’s experience with job hopping and dealing with the reactions of people in her life
Check out my website at flowandfire.com to schedule a consult, join my email list or hire me as your coach. Or, follow on Instagram or LinkedIn.
13 - Season 1 Review - How to Make a Career Change
Season 1 · Episode 13
Wednesday, November 10, 2021 • Duration 22:44
Welcome to the Season 1 Review! In this season’s final episode, we’ll review how my guests went about making career changes. How do you know when it’s time to change something in your career or try something new? Listen to find out the two main reasons my guests have made career changes. You’ll get a taste of each interview from this season and if any of these clips spark your interest, go back and listen to the full episode. Links are included below.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching. Ready to create your Intentional Career? Schedule a call with me.
Interview Highlights:
[00:38] Welcome to the Season 1 Review - sharing the patterns I’ve noticed in conversations with guests.
[06:40] Kristine Miguel was growing in her career as an accountant, but she experienced some emotional turmoil that took her off the traditional accounting path.
12 - Moving Forward with a Bridge Job Class with host Karen Styles
Season 1 · Episode 12
Wednesday, October 20, 2021 • Duration 39:59
This episode is the audio access to my class, Moving Forward With a Bridge Job.
I taught this virtual class live in the spring of 2021; I’m sharing it here because a bridge job can be a great step in building an intentional career, and we can all benefit from a perspective shift on bridge jobs. It has been edited from the original for audio context.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching. Ready to create your Intentional Career? Schedule a call with me.
Interview Highlights:
[01:25] Welcome, introduction, and overview of the class.
[04:00] What is a bridge job? My definition.
[05:43] Why would someone take a bridge job? Possible reasons.
[09:22] What should you look for in a bridge job? 2 important aspects. If you don’t have them, you’re not in a bridge job, you’re in a hamster wheel job.
[12:46] What could a bridge job give you (beyond time and money)?
[16:08] How long should a person stay in a bridge job?
[20:43] Reasons NOT to take a bridge job.
[22:33] How I ended up in a bridge job at Starbucks.
[27:25] My most recent full-time job - which ended up being a bridge job.
[31:34] Consider the specifics that will be important in defining your bridge job.
[32:56] Question & Response:
What motivated you to do your bridge job?
What advice do you usually give to job seekers?
How do I tone down my resume when I may be overqualified?
[38:10] Conclusion
11 - How Learning I'm Autistic Changed My Career with Wanda Deschamps
Season 1 · Episode 11
Wednesday, October 6, 2021 • Duration 41:50
Wanda Deschamps’s career was successful from the outside, but her mid-life autism diagnosis was the missing piece that helped her make sense of her work and life. In this conversation, we discuss the years leading up to her diagnosis, and how Wanda has become an advocate for the inclusion of disabled peoples in her speaking, writing and consulting work.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching. Ready to create your Intentional Career? Schedule a call with me.
My guest is Wanda Deschamps. She is the founder and principal of Liberty Co – a consultancy focused on increasing the participation level of the neurodiverse population in the workforce with a special emphasis on autism due to Wanda’s own diagnosis at midlife.
A champion for inclusion, she enjoys writing and speaking under the banner of the #InclusionRevolution, a worldwide movement launched in 2018 to spearhead broader thinking about disability – especially disability employment. Wanda is also the catalyst behind the #Women4Women collective focused on gender equality through supporting other women. Combining these two goals provides an avenue for Wanda to be an advocate for women with autism, including as a participant in research into autistic women’s experiences in the workplace.
Interview Highlights:
[01:30] Wanda’s life and career before her autism diagnosis.
[05:00] Fall 2016, Wanda’s mental health hits a crisis point and it becomes a pivotal moment.
[09:16] Wanda realizes not many autistic women in Canada are sharing their stories, and decides to share hers.
[12:10] Wanda’s diagnosis leads to clarity, wholeness and self knowledge.
[15:24] What is different for Wanda now.
[18:34] How Wanda is managing all the changes that have happened in the last few years.
10 - From Lawyer to Writer with Nisha Harichandran
Season 1 · Episode 10
Wednesday, August 18, 2021 • Duration 41:44
Nisha Harichandran was a commercial and corporate lawyer before she followed her dream to become a writer. She recognized her transferable skills, moved countries for love, and listened to the nagging of her inner voice to make big life changes in 2020.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching. Ready to create your Intentional Career? Schedule a call with me.
My guest is Nisha Harichandran. Nisha is a business story teller, caption and content writer. She has 15 years’ experience as a lawyer. Simplifying complex material in a clear and easy to understand way is her superpower. Writing is her passion and she loves to write a variety of pieces for diverse businesses. She got a fresh start in 2020 when she moved to Cardiff, Wales and decided to pursue writing full time. Her blog, Bohemian Crossing is a book club for her readers, and she set up Bohem Notes with a vision to empower businesses to share their stories.
*Note to Listeners*: We will be taking a short break from our usual biweekly schedule to enjoy the rest of the summer. The Intentional Career Podcast will be back in the fall of 2021.
Interview Highlights:
[01:42] Nisha looks back on how she started as a lawyer.
[04:07] Law isn’t like the legal dramas on TV. Nisha works in commercial and corporate law in Malaysia, India and Thailand. But being a writer was always her dream job.
[07:05] Nisha decides to explore blogging. She later moves to Wales to be with her husband, instead of continuing her marriage long-distance.
[11:08] The mission of her blog, Bohem Notes and the Growing in Lockdown Series
[14:48] How her career as a writer is different than before
[18:50] The biggest resistance she encountered was the voice in her head.
[27:00] What helped Nisha in making this career change
Connect with Karen
Check out my website at flowandfire.com to schedule a consult, join my email list or hire me as your coach. Or, follow on Instagram or LinkedIn.
[14:21] KDC is a mindful relationship coach who has always had multiple jobs, and likes it that way! Part of her career decision making happened as a result of her choosing sobriety. Listen to KDC’s interview in Episode 5.
[18:32] Joi knew that as a multipassionate creative, she’d have to create her own roles, rather than falling into a career path. Listen to Joi’s interview in Episode 4.
Transcription - Season 1 Review: How to Make a Career Change
Karen: I’m Karen Styles and this is the Intentional Career Podcast. I talk to all kinds of people who take all kinds of paths to work they love. I'm a career and life coach and owner of Flow +Fire coaching. If you’re ready to create your intentional career with the support of a coach, schedule a call with me. There’s a link in the show notes or go to intentionalcareer.co and click the blue “Schedule a Call” button.
Welcome to the Season1 Review. This is the final episode of Season 1 of the Intentional Career Podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Over the season and through these interviews, I've noticed some themes and patterns that I wanted to highlight and share with you. I'm a person who notices patterns and it helps me as a coach and just as a human when I'm learning from people.
And in particular, I've noticed some patterns from the guests that I've had on this season and how they went about making changes in their careers. In sharing what I've noticed, I'm definitely going to jump around as I share clips from each of the interviews. It won't be in chronological order, but hopefully, you'll see the thematic connections.
When you're considering a career change, how do you know when it's time to change something in your career or to try something new?
What I heard from my guests in our conversations is that there were two things that spurred the desire for change. First, there were internal messages that told them things weren't quite right. And second, there were some external signals or invitations that they responded to. First, the desire to change can come from an internal place and inner voice, inner knowing, sometimes even from emotional turmoil.
In episode 3, Broadway Dreams to Business Coach, I spoke to Michelle Ward. She had always wanted to be an actress from the time she was a little girl. She knew that this is what she wanted to be when she grew up. She followed her dreams to New York City to pursue acting in theatre. And she spent a few years there in the performing arts, but then things started to change.
Michelle: Once I was in my mid to late twenties, I finally started listening to the voice that started off as very, very, very tiny in the back of my head. Very quiet that said, Michelle, you don't want to do this anymore. You don't want to do this anymore. You're not going to do this anymore. And I was just, shut up, shut up voice. What are you talking about? It was... such a huge part of my identity was being a musical theatre performer, pursuing acting that it just was so ingrained with who I was that it was like...Once I started questioning that it wasn't only, well, what do I do if I don't do this anymore?
But, who am I? It was that sort of existential... It felt like an existential crisis. And it took me probably a year to take that voice seriously. And it just kept getting louder and louder and louder.
Once I came to terms with that, there was a grieving period... feeling like you've lost your best friend and your right arm kind of at once. Um, and I said, okay, well, I'm not going to be pursuing acting anymore.
Karen: So go back and listen to episode 3, to hear the full story about Michelle's journey from letting go of her dreams of becoming an actress to becoming a business coach for creative female entrepreneurs and the owner of the 90 Day Business Launch.
Nisha Harichandran was also hearing an inner message. In episode 10, she told me about her successful career as an international lawyer, but inside, she always knew she wanted to be a writer.
Nisha: I really enjoyed my legal career. It took me to many countries. I practiced in India and then thereafter, I also joined in-house and worked as a lawyer there. But there was always this writer within me. Because anytime somebody asked, what is your dream job? What do you want to do? Like where do you want to go? Like, where do you see yourself if you didn't have this law degree?
And, I'm like, oh, I want to be a writer. This voice inside me was just nagging, really nagging, you know, like, are you really going to do this? Why do you keep saying these things if you're not going to do it?
Karen: So, if you haven't heard it already check out episode 10, From Lawyer to Writer with Nisha Harichandran. Nisha talks about her career in law, how her skills as a lawyer connected to her new writing career and the writing projects she's been working on. .
In episode 11, I spoke to Wanda Deschamps about her mid-life autism diagnosis and how that affected her life and career. Wanda mentioned that there was always something internal gnawing at her as she was growing up and throughout her career, even though she appeared to be successful.
Wanda: Outwardly speaking, I guess you could say that my career was linear and it was successful in the sense that I was in the charitable sector for 25 years. I guess I say successful because I did progress and because I did enter senior roles.
Now I use the word outward because inside, it was a very different story. I struggled. There was always something gnawing at me from elementary school through junior high, high school, university. It lessened. And there were ups and downs. I would say my sense of self developed around my late twenties and thirties. In fact, I say, if you ask some people who knew me around that time, they would say from the outside, looking in, Wanda and her husband had everything.
Karen: Wanda's inner knowing or gnawing as she described it, is what helped her ask her family physician for an assessment and that led to her being diagnosed with autism. She called her diagnosis, the missing piece that made everything else in her life. Makes sense. She has since started a consultancy, which is focused on increasing the participation of the neuro-diverse population in the workforce. She also regularly advocates for disabled and neurodiverse communities. Check out episode 11, How Learning I'm Autistic Changed My Career to hear the full interview with Wanda Deschamps.
Speaking of internal turmoil in episode 2, Kristine Miguel talks about her traditional career path in accounting and how her career progression actually led to some emotional turmoil.
Kristine: I kind of fell into the accounting path, mostly due to my love for math. All accountants, somehow we just fall into this career path and then we are told what to do, what the next position is what the pay is for that position. And we just follow. So accountants are very good rule followers.
So when you're in the path, like when you're in the assembly line, you basically get given, like they dangle a carrot stick in front of you, where they're like, this is the next promotion with this price tag. And you're essentially rewarded for your efforts and for showing up in terms of positions and money, which are all prestigious, they're all like things to aspire to. I'm not really talking negatively about those because it really does work. But many days I woke up and I was so unmotivated and I thought to myself, okay what am I working for here?
I still remember those days very vividly where I'm just like... I've cried to my husband and I'm like I don't want to go to work anymore. And it's so weird because once I was at work literally, no one could tell.
In episode 8, I spoke to Teresa Wong. She's an experienced copywriter who always wanted to be a creative writer as well. After having three kids, her hopes for creative writing were all but gone. But a new creative idea came around in the form of a graphic narrative.
Teresa: When my youngest was one year old, so I got out of the craziness of having a baby again, a third baby. I finally sat down and thought, you know, there's a story I want to tell here, about having my first child and the depression that came with it and just all the confusion around being a new mother. And I thought, well, you know, there's a story there. I think I'd like to get it out of me. And then at the same time when I had kids, there was no time for writing, but I started to draw again. I'd always doodled as a kid but never thought that I was any good at it. And so I never pursued anything art-wise.
But you have a bunch of little toddlers running around, they like to draw and they like you to draw things for them. And so, that kind of was where I restarted my interest in drawing and trying to depict things in a cartoonish way.
And so those two things happened at the same time. I had a story to tell and also I liked drawing and wanted to maybe try my hand at doing a graphic narrative. And so, I sat down and did it I guess. Yeah, I had gone back to work after my maternity leave and on my lunch hours I wrote out the script or the words for Dear Scarlet, the story.
And then over the next few months, I bought a sketchbook and tried to sketch out my vision for it with the full intention of hiring or partnering with an illustrator, someone who could actually draw. And when I finished my first draft, I asked a friend who was an illustrator whether he would do this project with me. And I gave him the draft and he went away and a few days later we had lunch and he pushed the book back at me and said, "No, I'm not going to do this," and said, "You have to do it because this story is so vulnerable and so personal and it has to come from your own hand.”
While some guests had an internal voice they were following, there were others who responded to external opportunities. That's what happened with Hope Mirlis. She started out in the performing arts, but now performs weddings. I interviewed her in episode 7. After leaving a theatre company, she had founded in Atlanta, Hope decided to pursue further arts education.
Hope: So I started looking for MFA programs, masters of fine arts programs that were mid-career because I wasn't right out of college. And then I was brought out to the University of California Davis for their program, which was a super small program that I then got into and then decided to attend.
And then one of my classmates asked me to officiate her wedding out of the blue. She's like, hey, what are you doing on December 30th? She asked me this probably about two months prior.
And I was like, wait, what? No, no. And she was like, what do you mean? No. And I was like, well, why, why me? Like, why I don't understand. And she wore me down cause she, I kept like throwing all these roadblocks in her way. I was like, legally, I don't have this. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to do this.
And she's like, oh, we will figure it out. And I was like, oh, oh, you totally will. So I was able to get a permit from the county to perform one ceremony on one day. And we gathered on a beach in Sausalito, California and I performed my first ceremony. I realized that I had to take my ego out of it, that it wasn't about me. I really needed to step in there and be there for my friend in whatever way she needed me.
So after I performed that first ceremony, I was like, whoa, what is that? I was like, that is super freaking cool. It felt to me in a way, like this culmination of a lot of things that I've already done. I felt like I started stepping into a calling and I couldn't describe it. I don't think I would say those words at that time, but I was like, huh, that's cool. I'm good at that. And even the couple was like, we knew you were going to be good at it. We didn't know you were going to be that good at it.
Karen: So Hope originally said no to performing a wedding, but now she's a wedding officiant in New York City, go figure. There were other things she said no to before she said yes.
In this review of season 1, where we noticed patterns in career change, I'm pointing you to an episode where we also saw a pattern in behavior. Very meta, I know. Anyway, if you haven't heard it yet, check out episode 7, From Performing Arts to Performing Weddings with Hope Mirlis.
In episode 5, I interviewed KDC. She's a mindful relationship coach. And we talked about her multiple jobs and how she handles them all. From the beginning of her work-life, she always knew she wanted to teach and work with kids and started the traditional path of an education degree and teaching in the classroom. During that time, she was also dealing with addictions and the decision to get sober.
KDC: It felt normal to me to have more than one job. I don't know if it was because I'm a firstborn generation Filipino-Canadian. We're just like taught to work really hard and helping support and, you know, just living life.
And I just knew that I wanted to teach, but I wasn't sure what that would look like. Traditionally? Classroom. And I thought that would be the only way to go. And once I got to school and tried it, I'm like, nope, this is not for me.
And as I've been learning more about myself, like being true to myself is one of my most important things. And so I went through a lot of different jobs. But I just knew that if it didn't feel good for me, I wasn't going to do it. And so, I started finding what I loved, and there was a common thread.
It always involved children in some fashion and it was always to do with, I think because it was with children, teaching them and some, some just anything. And I feel like maybe because I was the youngest in my cousin group for a long time and an only child until we started taking in foster children.
I just wanted to have fun. I want to talk to kids. Maybe also because I'm a small human, so they're more my size than full-grown adults. And so I just kept looking for opportunities to do that.
I went to school. I finished. I taught and had my first... I was going to say midlife, but life crisis. Well, maybe like my second life crisis, after becoming sober. That was the first one for sure.
Yeah, I was realizing, okay, this isn't what I thought. This doesn't feel good. I don't want to teach what they're telling me to teach. I knew that I wasn't showing kindness to myself and it was because of my addictions for sure. And I was like, just at the beginning of my sobriety when all of this happened. So I was so confused and lost and I felt super alone. And so I started relying on mentors and outside sources because I knew that I couldn't keep going the way that I was by myself. And I knew that the people that were closest to me, yes, had my best interests at heart, but I needed more help in a way, you know? Like it wasn't just love and affection and acceptance from my family. Like I needed more than that, you know?
And so I needed to talk to people that had careers, that seemed interesting, even just interesting to me. And I started finding humans that I could talk to that have lived more life than me. Because I finally realized that I didn't know everything. And so that was when I started showing more kindness to myself. Just changing my mindset in that way that I don't have to do it alone and that's okay. And I can choose again. And that just felt so relieving. And so, yeah, I just started to find people.
So for multiple jobs, we go to multi-passionate creatives, D'Ana Joi knew that a traditional career path wasn't for her. In episode 4, Joi discusses how she started sharing her multi-passionate creative interests on her blog, Joi Knows How, she explored a variety of different subjects rather than niching down and she paid attention to how people responded to what she was putting out in the world.
Joi: So as a multi-passionate, what I realized pretty early on was that there probably was not going to be a career that I could just fall into that felt super aligned and that I would need to carve out my own path and create my own way of doing things and allow that to be correct for me.
Then naturally what happened was I talked about a lot of different subjects and as I started to write about more kinds of self-development I noticed that those blog posts were getting the most traction.
And then when I specifically wrote a blog post called, "It's time to start celebrating multi-passionate creatives," that is when I realized this is what people want to hear from me. This is what people are resonating with. I still get emails about that blog post. People find it and feel for the first time that someone's actually acknowledging their experience. And so, that was kinda my green light to say, hmm, okay. How deep can I go into this subject?
But our desires are so intelligent. And if we can make space to listen to them and be more unapologetic about that, then we start to create business models that are authentic and genuine.
There you have it. The overarching theme of Season 1, the two ways that career change comes about either prompted by an inner knowing or as a response to external events.
Since this is the Season 1 Review, I also want to mention the four solo episodes I released as well. Episode 1, What is an Intentional Career Anyway? I share my definition and I do encourage you to come up with your own.
Episode 6, Metaphors Cars and Jobs, thinking about your work, using the metaphor of a car. If your career was a car, which one would it be?
And why Episode 9, 3 Steps to An Intentional Interview. So if you're planning, some kind of career change in the near future. This is a great one to support you in your interview preparation.
So that's it. Season 1 is in the bag. I'm curious, were there other patterns or themes that you noticed? If you've got insights that you want to share, feel free to send me an email at podcast@flowandfire.com.
Once again, thank you for being here for Season 1. If you haven't had a chance to listen to all the episodes, I hope this season review has shown you, which ones you might want to go back and check out.
Season 2 is coming soon and it's going to be quite different from Season 1, so stay tuned for Season 2 coming soon.
Thank you so much for listening. It means so much that you spend part of your day with me. If you enjoyed this episode go to Apple Podcasts and leave a 5-star review. It helps other people find the podcast, and my hope is that if more people find the Intentional Career Podcast, then more people can create their Intentional Careers.
If you’re ready to create your intentional career with the support of a coach, schedule a call with me. There’s a link in the show notes or you can go to intentionalcareer.co and click the blue “Schedule a Call” button in the top right corner.
Transcription - Moving Forward with a Bridge Job Class with host Karen Styles
Karen: I’m Karen Styles and this is the Intentional Career Podcast. I talk to all kinds of people who take all kinds of paths to work they love. I'm a career and life coach and owner of Flow +Fire coaching.
If you’re ready to create your intentional career with the support of a coach, schedule a call with me. There’s a link in the show notes or go to intentionalcareer.co and click the blue “Schedule a Call” button.
In today's episode, I'm doing something a little bit different and I'm sharing the audio of a class that I gave earlier this spring. And the class was titled, "Moving Forward With a Bridge Job."
Sometimes we all need a job that is not our ideal job, but it actually can move us forward in our careers. And I believe that a bridge job can be a part of creating your intentional career. So it's time to remove some of the shame around it and start to explore just what might be available to us if we look a little bit closer at this bridge job option.
I do hope you enjoy listening to this class. And if you have any comments, feel free to send me an email podcast@flowandfire.com Now here's the class, "Moving Forward With a Bridge Job."
Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much for being here today for this talk, this small class on moving forward with a bridge job.
I'm really excited that you are here. I think this is a really important topic because there's a lot of people right now that have bridge jobs. There's a lot of people right now that need bridge jobs. And, I think it's really time to be done with the shame of it. And I think shifting our thinking around bridge jobs can really help us move forward in a more productive way.
So, let's talk about it. Let's normalize it and learn about how we can use bridge jobs in a really intentional way to build our careers.
First of all, let me introduce myself. My name is Karen Styles. If you haven't met me before, I think most of you I've met. Maybe you found me on social media, some folks are here from LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram and my email newsletter, but I'm so glad you're here.
I am a career and life coach. In case you're wondering why I'm not just a career coach, part of that is because sometimes career coach titles get really narrowed to job search. And I really see career coaching as a much bigger look at, what do you want your career to look like within your life? And when people are making changes in their careers, some of the things they encounter, it's not only challenges with the application process or interviewing, but it's also about mindset. Coming up against things in your mind that say, I can't do that. I can't make that change. And that's where life coaching and career coaching really overlap for me. I help folks discover and do work that lights them up. And my website is flowandfire.com. You were probably there to register for this class. So thank you for being here today.
So what we're going to cover today are these main things. First of all, what is a bridge job? Why take a bridge job? What to look for in a bridge job?
Also, I'm going to share with you a couple of the bridge jobs that I've had and how those have been important steps in my career, even though some of them weren't the things that I wanted at the beginning.
Let's look at this first, what is a bridge job?
Now, if you've been following around some of my social media posts, maybe you've seen my definition, but, I would like to hear from you, what do you think is a bridge job?
From my chat here: a role that helps you move from one to another. Yep. What else? Transition. Something to tide you over. Hmm. Yep. Great example. A lesser job than your previous job. Yeah, it might be. Right. It might be. A job that transitions. Great. These are excellent. Backup job.
Here's my definition: A bridge job is a position that you take, even though it's not your dream job, maybe it's not exactly perfect for your career, but you choose to take it anyways and it's usually temporary in some way. And the key is that it moves you from one place to another. And I think that metaphor of a bridge is really important because some folks, some career coaches, even, advise survival jobs.
And I just, to be honest, I don't like that term. I hope that you will do more than survive in your job. Right? And not every role is maybe going to be the perfect thing, but it should move you from one place to another. The idea of a bridge is that you go across it. You're not staying there forever and we're aiming higher than just surviving, right? We need to do more than that.
Let me ask you this, and maybe you can add this in the chat. Why would somebody take a bridge job? What are some reasons someone might need a bridge job?
Bills, bills, bills. Yup. That's a good way to put it. Financial support. Training for the next one. Avoid boredom and despair. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think what we're kind of seeing here too, is that we might all have different reasons, right?
So here are some possible reasons that I've identified. You might need to escape a toxic job or a draining job. It might be like, I don't know... I need the next position. I don't know exactly what that is, but I have to get away from where I am now. So if that's something extremely toxic, maybe it's an escape. But you still need it to take you somewhere. And it could be that a job is maybe a role that was okay in the past, but now feels draining. It seems to take all of your energy and you want to have your energy for other things in your life versus just that role. Maybe that's a good reason to look for a bridge job.
Second one. Oh, I don't know - maybe there was a global pandemic and you lost your job. You were laid off through no fault of your own. You were at a company you were planning to have a career with, and now you don't. Maybe you just need some things to bridge a gap. Totally legitimate. There's a lot of people in 2021 who are in that situation.
Sometimes it might even be to take a break from job hunting. I've had friends and clients who were trying so hard and were getting so exhausted by trying to find a similar role, after getting laid off and just weren't able to find a job that was similar in their same career path. And a bridge job allowed them to take a break because it does take a lot of energy to sell yourself, to apply, to interview, to tailor your resumes. All of those things take a ton of energy and maybe if there's a job that you know you can get, it might give you a break from job hunting.
Another reason is that maybe you can't do your dream job right now. For whatever reason that might be. You need some training, I'm trying to think of an example. Maybe you want to be a bookkeeper, but you need to take some courses. So you can't do that right now and you need some other work in the meantime while you're taking that training for example. Or again maybe in one year from now, maybe the economy will be a little bit different and the roles that you want might be more available to you. So, for whatever reason you can't do it right now, maybe you need a bridge.
And then the last one, which is perhaps the most obvious, like you need money right now. We have to do what we have to do. You have to pay your bills. You have to feed your family, you have to pay your rent. And you might have been unemployed long enough that you just need something now. And that's totally fine.
And I want you to know that there's no shame in needing a bridge job, okay? Probably, most of us, if not all of us have been in a situation where we have needed a bridge job, that's okay. That's totally okay. We all need to do what we need to do to cover our expenses and get where we need to go.
Moving on to the next question here, what do you think someone should look for in a bridge job?
Now I've identified two main things. If you're thinking about a bridge job, knowing that it's gonna move you somewhere, tell me in the chat if you have some ideas what might a person want to look for if they're considering a bridge job.
A job where you can gain transferable skills. Oh yeah. Yup. Learning opportunities. Yep. These are great. Somewhere with a good team and culture. Especially if you've escaped a toxic place, right? Or a draining place, you might need a place where just like people are nice. There might be something about that place that could be really helpful for you.
These are the two very simple things that I've identified what to look for in a bridge job, two things, decent money, number one, and that it leaves you time and energy to do whatever else you need to do. So your bridge job, ideally, needs to give you enough money so that you can keep moving forward.
Perhaps if you have been in a pandemic layoff situation, maybe you can't make quite the same salary, but hopefully, enough that you can keep moving forward and the time and energy to do what you need to do, again, to cross that bridge. So you might need time and energy to keep applying.
You might need time and energy to continue coursework or training that you're doing. You might need time and energy to relax and have fun and hang out with your family. Those are things that are important as well. So if you don't have those two things, I would say that's not really a bridge job.
And I used to say, if you don't have those two things, you're in a dead end job but I thought of the perfect metaphor last night. I was really excited about this. If you don't have those two things, I think it's like you'll be in a hamster wheel job where you're running and running and running and running and running and running and not getting anywhere. So hamsters are cute and everything, but we don't want you to be a hamster running and not going anywhere. So it's something to think about.
If you discover that maybe you are considering what might be a hamster wheel job or you're in a hamster wheel job, then think about, okay, what's the next little step that's going to be a bridge job that's actually going to take me somewhere, right? Again, the bridge is all about movement and moving you closer to where you need to go. Has anyone been in a hamster wheel job?
I think one of my jobs actually, now that I think about it, became a bridge job, but maybe it was originally a hamster wheel job.
A bridge job also can lead to a bridge job and that's also okay. Like some of you said, if you're gaining skills, if you have a great culture and environment, those things might get you closer to where you want to go, to the ideal workplace that you're looking for, as long as it's still moving you closer.
When thinking about a bridge job and those basics of decent money and a bit of time, what could a bridge job give you other than time and money? Any ideas on that? I'd like to hear your answers in the chat and it might, that might even be related to what some of you already said.
Someone said they had a hamster wheel job. Inspiration to pursue a career you hadn't considered. Ooh, I love that. Right. Maybe a bridge job can give you inspiration. Right? And that's also part of if you're able to escape a draining workplace and you're in a place where that's just a better culture for you, you might be able to nourish and cultivate your dreams. New industry knowledge. Absolutely. These are great answers.
Here are a couple of the ones that I've identified. A bridge job could give you a break from something difficult. Like I mentioned earlier, escaping a toxic workplace could give you something to focus on for now.
I've known clients who had gone through layoffs and accepted a role with a much lower salary. However, that was the right choice for them because of the weight of being unemployed. One particular client I have in mind, who was thinking, "I don't have a job. I don't have a job." That was so heavy for him, but for him, it was better to just start out in a bridge job. And then he's at least I'm going somewhere. At least I have momentum.
And this may depend on your financial situation, right? If you're the sole income earner in your family, if you have small children, maybe it helps you most to keep moving.
Notice that this is not like one rule for everyone. This is figuring out what are the specifics that are going to be right for you in choosing and taking on bridge jobs.
New skills. Somebody mentioned this, so getting some new skills. And new skills in a new environment, a new industry.
I had a client recently who landed a role in a new industry. She actually went from the private sector to the public sector. And it was a huge salary dip for her. And however, she knew that she probably wouldn't be able to make what she was before, but she decided through our conversations.
Yeah. She decided to look at it as education. This was education about a new industry that she was getting paid for. So she could go learn something by taking a class and paying a university, but she was actually learning a lot. So that helped her sort of shift her thinking to be able to say, oh, I'm learning here. I'm learning about a new industry and that's why I'm here.
Another thing a bridge job could give you is, it could be an investor for your business. So if you're someone who has the business or maybe a side hustle idea, and you're thinking about how can I make this happen? Maybe you need a bit of money to pay your bills so that you can keep working on this idea and growing the business on the side before you're full fledged and ready to be in it full-time. Those were a few things a bridge job could give you.
Any ideas, I would love to hear this from you in the chat as well, you know, how long should a person stay in a bridge job? At least a year. Okay. And there's one idea, what else? Yeah, it could be a year. Could be a good time. Max two years? Okay. Yep.
I'm going to give you the annoying answer, which is true for a lot of things is, it depends, right? It really depends on you and your needs. It might depend on how toxic your last workplace was.
Getting PTSD from a job is a real thing. It happens, right? So sometimes people need a calm and quiet workplace as it's just really different from their last workplace to start to realize that maybe work is not such a terrible thing.
It might also depend on how much money you need to earn, right? If you need to earn some money again, as an investor for your business, do you need three years? Do you need five years? What does that look like for you? It also might depend on how much time you need to rest or prepare for your next thing.
You might start in a bridge job and just kind of sigh with relief at the end of the day. And you might need to take a few months to just only focus on getting the job done and that's it. And then you might have the energy to start applying for the career roles that you really want. So these are all going to depend on you and what you need.
Oh, when you're not being challenged anymore. That's a great question. I think it depends. It depends. Having challenges in your work is great, but if it's a bridge job, it may actually be okay if you're not challenged, because then you can use your mental energy towards whatever the other things you're working towards. Right?
Your bridge job specifics are going to be specific to you. And I've kind of hinted at this a few times where the bridge job that you have is not going to be the same as the bridge job I have. It's not all the same thing. Whereas sometimes when people talk about survival jobs, everyone thinks about working at Tim Horton's or Walmart or something that kind of goes to the lowest common denominator, but, maybe a bridge job for me might be, teaching an English as a second language class online, because I have that skill, I've done it in the past.
It's not really looking where I'm looking to go in the future, but you know, it's kind of like a past skill I could use. You have different skills than me, and there might be things that you can do that are pretty easy that you could do in a bridge job, but I won't be able to do those things in a bridge job. So don't think that you know, we all have to be like a Starbucks barista or anything.
Think about what are the specifics that might be right for you. And this would be a great time to just brainstorm in the chat as well. What are some specifics that you are going to need? What's a requirement that's to be really specific to you?
For example, it might be something like the location. Maybe you want to walk to work, or you at the very least don't want to commute for an hour. Maybe you want to make sure that you work virtually. These are really important things to think about if you have control over them. What's going to make a job work for me?
I'm curious if you have ideas for your bridge job. What would that look like for you? Let's get some brainstorming going in the chat.
When there's a vertical, horizontal growth in the organization. Okay. So, Lorraine, it looks like you want to make sure that there's, you're not necessarily just stuck somewhere, right? Maybe that it's that idea of a hamster wheel. So if you go somewhere, you can at least keep moving, even if it's a bridge job. Okay. That's great.
All right. Keep thinking about that. If you're not ready to share that kind of brainstorm in the chat, that's also okay. I'm going to move forward.
Shorter commute says Evelyn, open, transparent corporate culture. Yep. I'm guessing, Aggie that you have some experience with maybe challenges and culture in the past, and that's might be what you want to look for that in the future. Like to work virtually, but the most important thing is to have a change.
Focus from the world. Okay. Interesting. Aggie says, yes. Okay. So, biggest reasons not to take a bridge job, any ideas on this? Why would somebody not take a bridge job?
Now, maybe you've thought of this already. Oh, salary doesn't cover your expenses. Yep. That's true. Toxic culture, micromanager. Okay. So yeah, if you're looking at a potential job and you're like hmm, this is not going to help me. This is not going to put me further forward. Yeah. That would be a great reason not to take a position.
I would say one of the biggest reasons people don't want to take bridge jobs is because they fear what other people think. A lot of times we internalize or we might internalize what we think other people think. , but hopefully this language of calling it a bridge job can help you shift the language, shift the thinking about it really because it's not like, oh yeah, I'm doing this job. It's like, okay, I decided to take this role for these reasons, and I think I will be here. Maybe you have an idea of the time or not, or this is the best choice for me right now. Right? So hopefully even using that terminology of, yeah, this is a bridge job for me, right now, and it's going to help me figure out what my next step is.
Lorraine says as a recent graduate, you can resonate with a fear of what other people would think. Yeah, here's a tip: Most people aren't really judging your work choices that much anyway. But if you think of it as a bridge job and are able to explain it, that might also help you.
I'm going to share a bit about my bridge jobs, a couple of my bridge jobs. These were two very different jobs actually. But in 2009, my role ended unexpectedly. I had some drama in my personal life combined with the global economic decline at that time. And it led to me being in a job search and it was a tough time.
I was an ESL teacher at the time. So I was looking for ESL teacher jobs and admin jobs. And, financially I was not in a good situation and I wasn't finding what I wanted. so I was applying, applying, applying. I got a few interviews, but it wasn't happening for me. And I was pretty desperate, to be honest. So I ended up at Starbucks. And a couple of things led me there. Number one, it was really close to my house. So I knew it wasn't a big commute, wasn't a big deal.
I had worked at a Starbucks during one summer in university, I worked at one of the ones at the airport, so I knew all the drinks. I was pretty sure I could get that job at Starbucks, the training of how to make all those drinks and memorizing all of the recipes and that kind of thing is a big part of training. So I was like, okay, I know all that stuff already. And I loved Starbucks coffee. So that led me there. So I ended up at Starbucks and that was January of 2010.
So I landed there and I had a job, but it was tough. And I think at the very beginning, it was kind of, it was a hamster wheel in the sense that I was not doing well financially. So those tiny paychecks that came in went to pay for, you know, whatever credit card bill was coming up and those types of things.
And it was tough. Like, it was embarrassing, to be honest. Partly because I had gone from a role where I had my degree. I had certification, I needed these professional requirements. And I went to an entry-level minimum wage job where I was making $9 an hour at the time. So, that was really, it was hard on my pride.
It was hard on my bank account. However, it was also a fun environment and I kind of enjoyed it, there's the social aspect? There's the physical aspect of having 10 drinks come up and making them all really fast and leaving your work at work. When you go home, I didn't have any prep or anything to do after I left, unlike teaching.
And very quickly, things started to look up for me at Starbucks. Within a couple of months, I became a supervisor and I hadn't applied or anything. I think it was just like a manager was like, yeah, we think this is the right step for you. Everybody thinks this makes sense. So why don't you become a supervisor?
And so, I became a supervisor. I was probably a little bit older than a lot of the kids at Starbucks at the time. But, I became a supervisor and enjoyed that tiny little pay raise. And, and then following that, I became an assistant manager. And at that point, by the time I got to the assistant manager role, I was really owning it. I wasn't embarrassed to be there anymore. I had worked through some of the shame of that transition. And I was like, no, this is for me now. And now I'm proud of myself and I'm going to make this happen. And so I was really proud when I got the assistant manager role. And through that assistant manager role, we did training in hiring and recruitment.
And I learned about things like phone screening and interview skills and the star method. And so that was my first insight into hiring, which interestingly enough, led me to my next job, which was in recruitment.
I was at a couple of places in recruitment for a few years, which led me to career services, which led me to where I am now. So it's kind of strange to think that the Starbucks job, which at the beginning was desperate and embarrassing, has led me to where I am now.
And I actually didn't think about this. Yeah. I don't know if it was a week or two ago when I found this old resume that I was using to apply for in 2009 and realized, oh my goodness, like this bridge job, which maybe was even a desperation hamster wheel job at the beginning has taken me full circle. So it was nice to realize that things can work out even if they start in a challenging way like they can and do get better.
The other role I had was my most recent full-time job and I ended up there. I had been in recruitment and it wasn't feeling quite right anymore. And I landed in this position, and it was kind of cool because it combined teaching English as a second language and a career center for French speakers. So it combined my past ESL teaching skills and then I knew I could use my former recruitment skills to help job seekers. So I was really excited about that, about moving from helping the company's hiring, to helping the people who are job seeking. And so I was super excited to find this role because I was trying to escape the job I was in and so super excited to make this move.
And it was great. It felt really awesome to be working directly with job seekers and using my ESL teaching skills again. And I had great colleagues and it was a really good environment. And then about six months in, I realized I was bored. And this was really irritating too, because, I thought I had thought previously, this was THE job.
This was like, finally I found somebody that used all of my previous skills together. Like there's not a lot of jobs out there like this so it was really annoying to realize that, once I was six months in, I knew what the role was and it really wasn't gonna change too much. There wasn't going to be room for me to grow and progress in that particular group.
And eventually, I did find ways to challenge myself and to take on new things, but what that role really allowed me to do was to build my dream of starting a business. Because I had actually been thinking about starting a business since 2013. And I landed in this position In 2015. But it took me a long time to make it happen.
And so, my teacher role really gave me the stability to nourish those dreams. I think somebody else mentioned this earlier, how you might need it to just kind of take care of yourself so that you can be inspired to think about something new.
And it really did that for me. Now that role at the beginning, I didn't think it was a bridge job and there were some times where I really wanted to be, you know, working in my business. And I was thinking about like, I need a bridge job. I gotta, I gotta get out of here. I need a bridge job. And then I thought about it.
This IS the bridge job. This is the bridge job. Cause I know that going to a new position really takes a lot of energy in, you know, applying, interviewing, adjusting to a new workplace, making sure you're meeting all the requirements, all of those things. So, it was just helpful because there wasn't a lot of stress.
The salary was good. I should say there's almost no stress. I didn't take work home with me right? On my mind. I had great vacation time. I could do this job without putting a ton of mental energy into it, and it allowed me to pay off some debt and it allowed me to hire a business coach and pay for my life coaching certification program.
So in that way, that job became my investor for the business that I eventually started in 2019. So I had these two bridge jobs and they serve very different purposes for me. I think they both caused me irritation because I knew neither of them were the places I was gonna stay forever.
But they helped me get to where I needed to be. So that's the long story of my bridge jobs. I just want you to know that a bridge job can be a really important step in creating your intentional career. Even if at the beginning it might feel frustrating.
It might feel irritating. Maybe it doesn't make sense to people around you, but it can really be an important step. Maybe you're going to see the steps later. If you can, as much as possible, think about what those steps mean for you, that's going to be really helpful in choosing the right bridge job for you versus getting on a hamster wheel.
So a couple of questions to consider, if you're looking for a bridge job, think about what are the specifics that are going to be important to you, right? Is it going to be virtual work? Is it the location and commuting and those types of things? Is it the work culture? Is it a specific salary that you need to make, a certain amount per hour or per year and you can't go below that, right?
And if you're unhappy in your job right now, does it help you to think of it as a bridge job? I know for me, it did. To say, okay, even if sometimes, it feels uncomfortable or this role isn't quite the right thing for me, I know that it's serving a purpose and it's temporary and it's taking me somewhere.
If this is bringing up a lot, questions in your mind, and you would like to have a further conversation, you can always reach out to me. My website is flowing fire.com. there's a big blue button in the top right corner. And you can schedule a call to have a conversation about that. If that's something you would be interested in exploring.
Now, let's go to questions. I would love to hear your questions about bridge jobs or how they fit into your career.
What motivated me to do my bridge job? Deepak asks.
The first one, Starbucks, was mainly needing money. Now that was the main one I needed money. And then it became a path, in the most recent teaching job, which I was in for almost five years. That one was, that was also to escape a previous job, like a previous job. It just, it was good. It was like, there were so many good things about it, but it just wasn't feeling quite right. And I needed to do something else. Actually, I wanted to work more one-on-one directly and help job seekers. And so that was my motivation, for the second one.
Yeah. Other questions. What is one piece of advice that I always give to job seekers? Oh gosh, I don't know if there is one piece of advice that I always get to job seekers.
Here's one that I almost always give is this: when you are applying for a position, think about the problem that the employer has and how you can solve the problem as a job seeker. Because anytime there's an open position, it basically means there's a business problem. And they need someone, they needed to hire someone to come in and solve the problem. So as you were applying, don't think of it as just, I need a job, but think of it as you are coming to help this organization solve a particular problem. And if you look at their job posting, the language, it'll give you an idea of what the problems are.
Even if we go back to the Starbucks example, if you were to like, be a barista at Starbucks, customers that have to wait and really long lines and are not being served- that's a problem. Right? So giving great customer service, working fast, that's solving problems, right? Taking care of customer needs. Those are problems that can be solved by having a great employee there. So that's a piece of advice that I pretty much always give to people. It's a little bit of a shift in thinking and being proactive when you were applying. So it's not just about, can you please hire me, but what can I do to help this company be successful.
Any other questions? Oh, how do I tone down my resume application for a bridge job where I may be overqualified so I still look competent enough to do the bridge job? Oh, that's a great question, Sean.
Tone down? Now… There's part of me that wants to say, you don't have to turn yourself down if you don't have to hide. I think it's less about toning down, but more about highlighting that you understand what needs to happen in this role and that you can do it right. I like to, at the top of a resume, put a value proposition and something that directly states how you're going to help that company.
So again, I'm just using the Starbucks example. If you were applying for a job at Starbucks, you would talk about customer service, about being fast, about learning quickly. Showing them that you have the qualities that will help you succeed in that job. So you might talk about skills and abilities that relate to what is needed in that position because ultimately that's what they need to know.
So you're looking at the job posting and going, okay, what they need is someone who does these three things, and I can do those three things and I'm going to tell them so in the resume or in the cover letter. And, I would highlight those things in your cover letter or in the top half of your resume, does that make sense?
So you can still show that you have previous experience that might make you overqualified, but show them that you understand what they're looking for, right? Again, you're solving that problem. Because really somebody who gets what the job is about is really a relief to an employer.
Evelyn says, reframe from overqualified to fully qualified. Yeah. Or it might be that like, are you overqualified for that job or is that you actually have different skills and qualifications. If you're looking at a different area, are you really overqualified or is it that you need different skills? You probably need to highlight different skills in order to do that role successfully. If that makes sense.
Well, I'm glad it was useful and helpful. I hope that you all found this useful. Thank you for being here today. I'm really grateful that you could be here.
I hope this helps you shift your thinking. Even if your next step is small, that's okay. If it's going in the right direction, that's what's important for you. And If other people are questioning what you're doing, saying, Hey, this is a bridge. This is a bridge job and it's going to get me where I need to go. And this is what I need right now. So, I'm going to send you all a thank you email and a very small questionnaire. and if you need to find me, I am at flowandfire.com.
I do welcome you to schedule a one-on-one conversation with me. If you think the support of a career coach would be helpful to you. Thank you so much everyone for being here today. I really, really appreciate it. Have a wonderful afternoon and have a great weekend.
Thank you so much for listening. It means so much that you spend part of your day with me. If you enjoyed this episode go to Apple Podcasts and leave a 5-star review. It helps other people find the podcast, and my hope is that if more people find the Intentional Career Podcast, then more people can create their Intentional Careers.
If you’re ready to create your intentional career with the support of a coach, schedule a call with me. There’s a link in the show notes or you can go to intentionalcareer.co and click the blue “Schedule a Call” button in the top right corner.
Episodes are released every 2nd Wednesday, so I’ll see you in 2 weeks for more of the Intentional Career Podcast!
[23:55] What Wanda would tell the past version of herself.
[28:32] How the Covid-19 pandemic put a spotlight on ableism in the workplace, and why Wanda still has a positive outlook about the future.
[35:00] Wanda’s company is called Liberty Co because confronting the facts brings freedom.
Transcription - From Lawyer to Writer with Nisha Harichandran
Nisha Harichandran was a commercial and corporate lawyer before she followed her dream to become a writer. She recognized her transferable skills, moved countries for love, and listened to the nagging of her inner voice to make big life changes in 2020.
I’m your host, Karen Styles, Career + Life Coach and owner of Flow + Fire Coaching. Ready to create your Intentional Career? Schedule a call with me.
Karen: Today, my guest is Nisha Hari Chandran. Nisha is a business storyteller, caption and content writer. She has 15 years of experience as a lawyer and simplifying complex material in a clear and easy way to understand is her superpower. Writing is her passion and she loves to write a variety of pieces for diverse businesses.
She got a fresh start in 2020 when she moved to Cardiff, Wales and decided to pursue writing full-time. Her blog, Bohemian Crossing, is a book club for her readers and Bohem Notes has a vision to empower businesses, to share their stories. Welcome, Nisha. I'm so glad to have you here.
Nisha: Hi, Karen, thank you so much for having me.
Karen: Yeah, it's great to have you, we met on Instagram, right? That was fun. Yeah.
Nisha: I mean, it's a celebration of connections, isn't it. Like attracts, like, you know, you send out this message to the universe. Like I've got the story to tell at somebody, please hear me out. And there you are just opened your doors and welcomed me. So thank you so much.
Karen: I got a DM and I thought this is really interesting. So, your story really intrigued me because you mentioned you were a lawyer for 15 years. And then you moved your whole life, to Wales and started writing full time. So let's go back to your career as a lawyer. Maybe tell us what life was like there. And how was it that you started to get the sense that things needed to change?
Nisha: You know, Karen, it all started in Wales actually 15, 18 years ago. So inspired by all the enlightened books that I read as a child. I always craved this adventure and living in boarding school. I know it's just exploration. And I had applied for my university education to do my undergraduate studies and there was a position offered at Cardiff University. So I had come here and pursued my undergraduate degree. So it all started in Wales.
Karen: And where were you before that?
Nisha: In Malaysia. I'm born and brought up in Malaysia. So this tropical child, sunshine, loving angel, who doesn't really stay much in the sun in Malaysia because it's so humid. And I wanted this adventure. My parents said, Okay. And my dad, a little bit of tough love. He said, Okay on one condition you are going, but you're completing your studies. And then coming back, there's no running back and forth for every summer vacation or winter holidays. Like you don't make the most of it. And I was like, Yeah thank you. I'm just going to go all out, explore, learn.
And Cardiff was such a welcoming city, a bit more relaxed in terms of pace-wise, compared to some of the bigger cities. It's a university city in a way and it was so welcoming. So this is where I spent my three years as an undergraduate. I went on to London and completed my bar vocational course and got called to Lincoln's Inn, which is one of the oldest inns in the UK.
And I went back to Malaysia after that and completed my pupilage, which is your 12-month training, sort of like an articleship and got my stages, as a practicing lawyer. Law was fun. I would say you don't really get those interesting, exciting clients or the trauma that you see in the legal dramas, I would say don't be disillusioned by Ally McBeal, there's no Robert Downey Junior.
Karen: And what kind of law did you practice?
Nisha: I did more commercial law. So during my internship, I tried a variety of things. And then I realized commercial was more my space because it was always a discussion between two companies and trying to resolve that.
I really enjoyed my legal career. It took me to many countries. I practiced in India and then thereafter, I also joined in-house and worked as a lawyer there. So from the opposite side from one sort of litigating matters to one advising on the business side of things.
And my last posting was in Bangkok for Telenor a Norwegian telecommunications company. I was overseeing their governance matters. So, yeah, a lawyer, but there was always this writer within me because anytime somebody asked, what is your dream job? What do you want to do? Like, where do you want to go? Like, where do you see yourself? If you didn't have this law degree? And I'm like, oh, I want to be a writer.
Karen: Wait. So were people asking you that? If you're a lawyer, a corporate lawyer in various countries, who was asking you that? Were people asking you what your dream is?
Nisha: It was in conversations, with friends, when you do these like, little icebreakers and, or you tend to do little tests online or just chats about it. And as a lawyer writing is part of your daily job. You're all writing. And I also furthered this area by authoring publications for organizations. So you do like little how-to guide trainings.
I was involved in a lot of training presentations and preparation, and all of that is writing. It's just positioning different pieces of communication. And when you work with a diverse platform or across borders and countries, you're always communicating in a way that people need to understand. And sometimes it's saying the same message in 10 or 12 different ways because you've got to translate it in a way that suits your audience, or even in a corporate job. When you speak to a director you're adopting a very different tone of voice, as opposed to an employee you're doing customer service matters. So writing communication was always just kind of interwoven, but. And the writer in me always woke up every now and then and said, yes writing is a dream job.
Karen: And what did you want to write?
Nisha: I didn't know at that time, what I wanted to write, I just knew I wanted to write. So it was always this little voice inside me, urging me about writing. And I can't remember who, but somebody suggested. Why don't you explore it in a safe space, like in a try blogging or something? Like put it out there then it's like, yeah, that's a pretty good idea.
And really sensible because it could be just something that I enjoyed, but whether I could do it full time. And then secondly, whether people enjoyed reading what I wrote, so that's how Bohemian Crossing the blog was born. And I took it as my journey from a caterpillar to a butterfly. As part of my own transformation and Bohemian was inspired by a personality of my, of me actually just sort of free-spirited and just kind of enjoying, going with the flow of meeting people.
So that's how I took the journey. And he like, let me write about my own growth and the people and experiences that I encounter and take that from there. So that's how blogging started as a safe space.
Karen: Amazing. At that point, you knew you wanted to be a writer kind of taking these little steps, to actually start to do the thing that you wanted to do. And then how did that come about as a full-on career change?
Nisha: Full-on career change was because of love. So I married a guy from Wales from Cardiff, and we've been doing long distance for a couple of years. And, literally just reporting for duty as husband and wife, because Malaysia or Bangkok was like six, seven hours ahead. So it'll be yes. Hello husband, hello wife. And then we will talk again later. So it just made sense for both of us to be in the same space and the adventure streak in me said, yeah. Why not? I'll move then. So, it was literally just after months of trying or years of trying saying that, okay, I will move and relocate it. And I think coming back, just starting and maybe turning 40 last year was just a lot of, awakening reflections.
You know, how long are you going to bury this voice inside of you? That keeps calling out to be a writer. So I started doing my blogging a little bit more seriously. So that's how it started. And I joined the Cardiff writer's circle, which is a little network in Cardiff and they were so supportive because everybody just listened when you read out a piece. They gave you feedback and it was another sanctuary, I would say, that I found, I worked with another friend on a freelance basis where we trialled out a project. She was doing a project about interviewing people in Cardiff. So we went around doing stories and I immersed myself into that role to seize it as something that I was going to grow.
And COVID happened. So the job market wasn't steady either. I'd just seen the headhunter before the lockdown was announced. So there was no chance of any jobs coming through.
Karen: So, okay, what point in time is this like you had moved back to Cardiff?
Nisha: I moved in February, February of 2020,
Karen: And with plans to get a lawyer job in Cardiff?
Nisha: Sort of exploring. I was looking into training more than doing full-time commercial laws. I was looking at your training as an option and then lockdown happened in March. So it was, okay, let's just trial a couple of things in between. And then I think my birthday's in October, so I had set a deadline. I was like, I got to make up my mind and a 15 September, just a month before my birthday, I said, okay, Bohem Notes is launched. That's how I just made my decision to go on as a sole trader and offer this content writing support business.
Karen: Okay. And so you kind of drew a line in the sand and said, like, this is my new career now.
Nisha: Yes.
Karen: So tell us about Bohem Notes.
Nisha: Bohem Notes is really a vision. I feel it's such a fulfilling mission or my soul's calling, I would say that's just come about. And, the whole vision behind it is to empower people to share their stories. Because stories are just all around us. It's in our day to day, but a lot of it gets buried in to-do lists or tasks and then forgotten.
And if you could have another pair of hands with you to help you author that story, it just lives forever in any medium. And it can reach so many people. So that was my inspiration behind setting up Bohem Notes.
Okay
Karen: And can you explain, for our listeners, what are the stories? Cause you've focused on, is it 12 stories?
Nisha: Yes. Yes. That's my latest project. It's called Growing in Lockdown Real Stories by Real Women. And lockdown has taken, what 18 months of our life, we woke up one day and it was just a whole new world and so much has happened. And as the world was also opening up. I started seeing photographs of people just racing everywhere, catching up for the lost time.
And on the one hand, I was excited that we were moving to a new normal or to life as we now know it to be. But on the other hand, it was like so much happened. During these 18 months, we looked at life so very differently. Are we just going to just lose all of that magic while we run through and my brother, Harry, he said, you've got to write something about it. If you feel so strongly about it, you could write something about it. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna do it. And that's how this whole project started about having a compendium of stories that people can relate to and refer to. And why I chose 12 is because you have 12 months in your calendar and also 12 faces on your clock dial.
So each time you turn in. If you lose yourself somewhere, you always have this place to refer to. And a Growing in Lockdown was born out of that. So reaching out to women across the world who had grown so soulfully and sensationally during this period, anchored me also in my own self growth, because they are just disconnected by borders.
Most of them didn't know each other, but they were bonded through their own self-belief and spirit and confidence and just how they nurtured themselves and reconnected with themselves during this period and kind of taking it to another turn. So just anchoring all those stories in a Bohemian Crossing blog was just a brilliant project.
Karen: Mm. And how did these women find you? Or how did you find them?
Nisha: I found them. So some of whom were already in my network and some I reached out like the way I reached out to you, Karen, knocked on doors.
Karen: Yes.
Nisha: And said, do you want to do this? I think this is going to be great. I sent them a form and I was so thrilled with the response that I received and how they just opened up to another person and just shared this personal story in the hope that it's going to reach many other people and inspire and engage them towards their own growth.
Karen: Amazing. That's really beautiful.
So tell me about what it's like for you now that you are into this new career a year, I guess 16, 17 months into a new career saying, I've left law behind, I'm now a writer. How is your life different now?
Nisha: Life is different in the sense that I'm authoring my own script. I feel I'm rewriting my story. You know earlier. Yes. I really enjoyed it. I mean, I've made an excellent set of friends. It was a wonderful experience. And that I've grown. But I feel all of it was like preparation leading me towards this journey. Because in terms of a lawyer, your skillset to distill, to analyze, to be so observant, they are so interwoven with the qualities of a writer, in fact, but just looking at it from different lenses, you know, approaching people and just knocking on doors or even taking rejections in some of your submissions you just build up that stamina. And it was just an amazing platform. And now as a writer, I just feel there's more independence, I would say because I am doing the projects that I want to do. I choose clients and I invest my time accordingly in that.
So it's that different ones, you know? And I would say the biggest change is juggling all the many hats. I'm CEO or CMO, CFO, everything all in one. There's no steady paycheck that comes month on month. That's more, you know, okay, have we got a client? Have we not? What are we going to do? And it's also balancing your own internal priorities, but say it's fun. It's engaging. And it's great being a student again because there are so many different skill sets that you need in setting up your own business and different people that you're also connected with as part of this journey. So for example, with this whole Growing in Lockdown project, we conceived it sitting in a car while I was about to go cut my COVID bracelet off. So I got COVID exposure just before returning to the UK.
Karen: Wow.
Nisha: And then we are debating this whole idea about you've got to connect with people. You've got to write the story. I come back and put it all down. And we're like, how are we going to take photographs? People are sitting in Mexico and the US and Denmark and how are we going to do this?
And my brother, he's a portrait and a lifestyle photographer. So he said, okay we'll do a remote photo shoot. Let's do this. Let's explore FaceTime. Let's explore Google Duo and let's make this work. So I returned and you know, it's your competing priorities, but you also just have the sense of fulfillment.
Yeah. I bet that's come across very strongly. Now, you wake up, you know, you're doing this with purpose. And at times, yes, when things beat you down, but you still wake up and you wake up stronger, you'll make the next word matter even more. So, when I was authoring these stories for these women and when my brother sent me these photographs, it was like, yes, visual storytelling.
Just the power of it and putting it across to people. Yeah. Fulfillment is the word.
Karen: It's so interesting. I wouldn't have made the obvious connection between, what we in career development called transferable skills, which kind of sounds like a boring term, to be honest. But when you talked about it, like you're like, oh yeah, I observe people like distill information and, , and it's so clear to you how the connection is made, between those two careers.
I'm curious. Did you have any, pushback? Was there anyone in your life that was like, you can't be a writer or did you have any of that resistance from people around you?
Nisha: It would just be the voice in my own head.
Karen: Right. Which is the biggest one to deal with.
Nisha: Which is the voice, you know, you don't really need another person outside of you because this radio is playing 24 7.
Karen: Oh, I know it.
Nisha: This self-talk, I mean, Karen, you'll know loads about it. This self-talk is so powerful what you want to and not listen.
And when I wasn't getting clients in the beginning or, no responses from any submissions, you're like, really are you really meant to, are you really cut out for this? And then there's one nod. There's one like there's one heart that comes in. You're like, yes, of course, they liked my work. I like my work, but irrespective of all of this, it's fine tuning the self-talk in your head because you got to believe yourself first before somebody else believes in you.
So if you start doubting yourself and if other people continue to add to that sentiment, it's kind of like a downward hill slope, but there will be days you just have to pick yourself up.
Karen: Yeah.
It's something that, as a coach, I work on coaching myself it's definitely something I work with my clients. You have to do that thought work. Do you have any example of, you said that radio was playing, do you have an example of, one of those limiting beliefs may be that you struggled with and how you dealt with it?
Nisha: In terms of do people like my work?
Karen: Mm.
Nisha: Do they like what I'm putting out there? Do they like my stories? So, taking on this and Growing in Lockdown, series, for example, when you send out these questionnaires, it's like, are people gonna respond to it? Connect with it? Are people even going to read this? This is something that we just started and where does it take?
And especially when you're like, okay, I'm I need to clock my 12 stories and my 12 stories are not coming together. How am I going to do this? And then you're like, no, it is going to turn up. You just got to take these little breaks in between. And I think in one of my stories Nurul who is a decorated member in both the Malaysian civil service and abroad, she talks about positivity pauses or positivity breaks where this kind of disconnect with what you're doing so that you rebalance yourself with your ecosystem.
And then Marissa brings this beautiful theory about not following anybody's timeline, just go at your own pace. So when I read back these stories to myself, I'm like, yes, this is the kind of thing that you embed back into your body, your own thought programming and saying, yeah, there's really no timetable yourself, imposing a lot of things on yourself without realizing all the other achievements that you've made along the way. So it's just taking stock, maybe readjusting and seeing that you're on a different path and acknowledging all these other achievements.
So Angelina talks about the power of truly being present, like right here in the now we're so used to running. I'm a to-do list. I love going checking on this doctor the next so much. So you forget what you've done before or what you've done after, and you tend to wrestle with that process of maybe I didn't achieve enough. And she said with all of this happening in lockdown, she said, it just reminded you to always come back to the, now the power of the now was just so important and that's what loved down taught us as well.
Karen: So it sounds like as you were telling the stories of these women, their messages were very important to you as well.
Yeah.
Nisha: Because reconnecting with themselves was one of the biggest lessons that I took out as the biggest takeaway from the whole Growing in Lockdown. Because you've got to reconnect with yourself first before you start with another person. Same thing with the airlines, right? Strap yourself first before you strap the next person.
Everything, you first, me first. It may sound selfish, but it isn't. Because if you are in the best space only, then you can give out your best. So when I do fall short of myself, or if there's any self-talk playing that doesn't serve me, I tune back into these messages or I just disconnect with whatever it is that I'm doing at that moment.
Even if it's a sip of water or just a walk to the garden, just to break state so that I don't do well or engage or prolong that discussion for a longer time. So just a change of scene to reset myself in my patterns.
How do you go about it, Karen?
Karen: When I'm dealing with negativity?
Nisha: Yeah, all this radio that's in your head.
Karen: The biggest thing I do is writing. Writing it down, and getting it out of my head and onto a page. And there's something about... Because sometimes the thoughts swirl really fast. So it slows your brain down a little bit. And this is definitely writing by hand. And sometimes knowing what the thought is that's bugging me is really helpful. And then it's a self-coaching practice, oh, this is the thought that's making me feel bad. So this is the negative thoughts. That's giving me a negative emotion and then, sometimes I'll use different coaching tools, but looking for different options, looking for what's another thought that I could think.
Nisha: Exactly reframing. Isn't it?
Karen: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe there's another option that will be more helpful. And you're building those neural pathways so you're thinking in a different way. And even this week I've been doing it a lot. I think I go through phases. I don't know. Probably other people are like this too, where I'm writing more every day, this week. And it's really helping me get out of a funk.
Nisha: It's a great process to empty out. Because when you write and like you said, putting pen to paper, you're kind of just filtering it out of your system. So even physically, or just when you look at it, you're kind of just emptying, you're getting it out and you're not carrying that with you through the day. So even a couple of lines a day really helps.
Karen: Yeah, I have found it really helpful even when you start out by going, like, I don't know what I'm writing. It's still something helpful. And I find that I always go to a journal when I'm feeling stuck or whatever, and it always helps. There's always something.
Nisha: And likewise, just to top yourself back up with the good stuff is just making a note of all the little significant achievements that you do during the day. Even if it's like walking at like a quarter speed faster than what you did yesterday, or baking a cake, for example. All of these are little achievements. So at least when you have something to it, something for you to reflect on, it's like little juice. You fueling yourself up with all the good stuff because on the one side you're emptying, but then you're also refuelling up and it's really powerful this practice.
Karen: Yeah, I've been doing that too, because it's really easy to look at the to-do list of all the things I didn't do yet. So I've tried to pay more attention to, okay. I did do that thing. I did schedule some social media. I made a phone call I needed to make or whatever, and you're right. I think it's really powerful too, to just say, oh yeah, I'm going to recognize myself for the things that I did.
Nisha: Yes.
Karen: Not just the things that I need to do.
Nisha: Exactly.
Karen: So I'm curious, is there anything in particular that helped you make that change or transition in your career? It sounds like you're a pretty positive thinker or you've built up those habits to mitigate when the negative radio is playing. What are the things that helped you on your journey with this transition? Whether that's, I don't know, books or mentors or coaches or advice.
Nisha: I think, I would say, start with yourself first to know whether you're really ready because I've been dipping my toes in the water for quite some time. Sort of starting, pulling back, starting, pulling back, maybe just going a little bit further. But this voice inside me was just nagging, really nagging, you know, like, are you really going to do with this? Why do you keep saying these things if you're not going to do it? So I think the move helped because it was like, okay, it's a fresh page. I have to start everything from scratch, from even opening a bank account. So why not a career?
Karen: Why not?
Nisha: Why not? You know? It's like going into the shop and trying on a new dress. You got to try. You got to see, explore, you're making new friends, new connections. So just take this opportunity. Relax a little bit. Things may not work as for the schedule that you wanted. But kind of just go with the flow. So that's how I developed a program, which essentially was for myself, but it was called Flow in Five.
Karen: Okay. Tell me more. Cause it sounds so much like my business name, Flow and Fire.
Nisha: Exactly.
Karen: So
Nisha: It was. So...
Karen: I know I'm so I'm perking up right now. Okay.
Nisha: It was cool. It was called Flow in Five because it's overwhelming with the amount of information that's available out there then you don't really know where to start. So the best place to start is here with yourself. So I call it the Soul Searching, where you really go in and dig deep and find out what is it that you want to do, why you want to do certain things.
So for example, with writing, what kind of material that I want to write? What's my vision? So the Five was essentially taking either five minutes, or breaking down a thought into five so that you don't just stop with one or three, but you have options basically. That was the whole idea that you create yourself options. And when you have something and you have broken it down to five maybe you see if you can break it down a little bit more. Because the whole idea is we work smart.
So we don't have to write the same content five times, but maybe just think of five different users for the same content. So that's how it started.
So it goes with searching a soul so that you know where you're starting. And then it goes to ideation, which is like a playground. Cause you've got so many ideas, kind of just throw it all out there. And when you get overwhelmed, move to stage three, which is prioritize. So I designed a sort of pyramid concept so that you can put from important to least important, you know what task to schedule. You know what you can delegate, what you can seek support and what you can do to work with other artists in your area or other creatives. So you can even collaborate and work with the community.
And then the last two steps were about self care. One was for your work because it's not that you just write something and you press publish. There's a lot of editing that needs to go on, and you've got to invest a little bit of time in that too, and care for yourself because you've got to sustain this thing day in, day out. How are you going to manage a balanced relationship? Both with yourself personally and also professionally. So that was the whole Flow in Five concept.
And that started my mom is my biggest cheerleader. So she's always encouraging. Both my parents are positive thinking, always is inspiring. They said, okay if you feel this is it and go with your gut too, you know? And we are here. We support you. My husband was very understanding, and he said, okay if this is something you really want to do, go all out and give it a go. So I had a lot of fun. Supporters around me cheering me on in this journey.
But what I want to come back to is as much support that you get outside, it is great because you have this wall around you, but if your internal support system is crumbling, it's not a good sign. So you've got to always make sure that you fill-up. You keep believing in this journey as much as they are as well. And connect with the community, just find supportive networks around you, where you can reach out and learn from others. You don't really have to reinvent the wheel. There's just so much out there already. So learn from people, read up, read books.
And I liked this book by Marie Forleo, where she says everything is figureoutable.
You're not going to come crash landing. It's not the end of the world. The earth is not going to open up and swallow you. There is going to be a solution. So don't freak out. Or if you need to freak out, freak out for that little moment, but just come back and figure it out.
So it's these kinds of things that kind of help. And finding a tribe in that you can lean on too. So there is the small business huddle in the UK, which is organized by Shannon of Mockingbird Makes, and she brings together women, small businesses in the UK on a weekly basis. Where they discuss, share ideas, check-in, and if they have something that they want to promote or talk about in their sales offer, they do that too. So it's kind of just finding these people along the way and building that anchor and that support so that you can journey on.
Karen: So the internal and the external, sources of support, inspiration, all of those things.
Nisha: It's so important. I think this nurture, nature, everything kind of coming together and just keep going. You fall, never mind. Pick yourself up. Dust it down. Take a break, even. Take a break. You don't have to rush to get everything done today or tomorrow. It can be next week or next month or next year.
And sometimes maybe you launch a product or a course, and it doesn't get the uptake that you think it deserves. But maybe it's not the right time, or maybe you have assumed too many things that, you know, people may want to hear. So just kind of reflect back and, take back and restart again.
It's tough, but it's fun.
Karen: I'm curious about your career crush or crushes, who is it that's
Nisha: Oh, yeah. So Marie Forleo is one. I think the moment she said, everything is figureoutable. I'm like, why didn't I think of that? Why do we keep stressing so much about all these things when you can figure stuff out. So she's been a huge inspiration in terms of how she talks on social media or just how empowering she is as a leader, as a writer in her words.
And of course the iconic Oprah. She can just talk about anything and just swinging it with so much confidence that you just want to go out and talk too. So even now, before joining your podcast, I was like, okay, I need some inspiration here so let's watch some Oprah.
Just putting that in the background, just kind of absolving her energy, her vibes, and just how confident she is and how relaxed she is as she talks to everyone and how socially aware she is. So it was just tuning into that. I just played it in the background and I said, okay, Oprah, bless me.
Karen: Sending up a prayer to Saint Oprah.
Nisha: Yeah, exactly. Because the next phase is I want to do more speaking engagements and I want to talk, I want to communicate more about my project. So you got to tune in to different people to see how they go about it. You've got to find these role models and see. So yeah, these do definitely come up to mind very quickly.
Karen: What would you tell your past self, the past self who wanted to be a writer, what would you say to that person who was maybe concerned or not quite ready?
Nisha: I'll tell her you did it girl and keep going. I mean, just look at the voices, look at the messages and the people that have inspired through these stories. Look at the connections that you have built and the stories that you've shared and the power in those stories. And a purpose. You found a purpose because Bohemian Crossing blog was a journey, was my own little journey, caterpillar to butterfly growing. People whom I met’s experiences.
But with producing this whole Growing in Lockdown series, 12 stories, real stories by real women has just given me another set of inspiration on taking the series longer. So I'm extending it to a new series in September called Entrepreneurial Life. Because from Growing in Lockdown, you're now an entrepreneur in your life into the set of new normal. So I'll be doing another set of 12 stories starting September one.
So I'll tell my younger self that it's an exciting journey. And thank you. Thank you all for having the faith in me. Thank you for continuously putting these voices in my head because you pushed me in a way to come out of my comfort zone.
You really pushed me into the ocean.
Karen: Hmm. Oh, I love that. So you don't need to give your former self advice. You're just saying thank you to her for making it.
Nisha: Thank you.
Karen: Taking the steps.
Nisha: Nagged me so much. You really nagged me.
Karen: Yeah.
Nisha: For not being able to take this leap of faith. And as a result, I see a new me, a newer version of me. And I love the old me too, but there's just so much of that and the new that has just evolved. So it's exciting.
Karen: So speaking is in your future, another writing series is in your future. What else is on the horizon for you?
Nisha: Oh, I would love to do a book at some point. There are so many little bits and bobs that have been written. But it's one little project at a time, so that's definitely something I would like. But for now more speaking engagements, opportunities that way kind of growing the readership.
Karen: Brilliant. Well, that's wonderful. I loved hearing about your career. How you made this big change and how you are loving your life. I wish people could see your face because you're just glowing as you talk about what you do. And, I think that's such a gift and hopefully, that encourages folks to follow the voice that's in their head.
Do you have advice for people who might be, they have an idea, and they're trying to put their toe in the water what words of wisdom would you share with them?
Nisha: Just make a start now. Find that safe space, make a start, however small, however little. Don't ridicule yourself, but just make a start. Because I took years before I decided to finally go in it and don't lose that time because it's so precious and it's not coming back. So make yourself happy. It's your concert. It's your show, just go on and rock it.
Karen: Awesome. I would also say, I just want to point out, it's okay if you take your time.
Nisha: Exactly.
Karen: Just to kind of disagree, like to say, even if you feel like you took your time, you're still experiencing what you want. So that's also fantastic.
Nisha: It's a journey, isn't it? all a journey at times. All these experiences just give you extra muscle power as you take on a new turn.. So whatever that you're going through, it all just adds up. So never doubt that, or never discredit things that you have done because it all adds up and you lean on to all these things as you go through.
Karen: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. It was great to have you on the show.
Nisha: Thank you and everybody, please do read my series Growing in Lockdown, Real Stories by Real Women at Bohemian Crossing blog.
Karen: Yes, we will link it in the show notes.
Nisha: Thank you. And thank you for having me.
Karen: A quick word to listeners that we'll be taking a short break from our regular release schedule in order to enjoy the rest of the summer. I'll be back with more episodes of the intentional career podcast in the fall.
Thank you so much for listening. It means so much that you spend part of your day with me. If you enjoyed this episode go to Apple Podcasts and leave a 5 star review. It helps other people find the podcast, and my hope is that if more people find the Intentional Career Podcast, then more people can create their Intentional Careers.
If you’re ready to create your intentional career with the support of a coach, schedule a call with me. There’s a link in the show notes or you can go to intentionalcareer.co and click the blue “Schedule a Call” button in the top right corner.
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