Explore every episode of the podcast The Grow and Convert Marketing Show

Most GEO/AEO advice assumes you're already a known brand. Here's how we'd approach GEO/AEO if you're not.

Redline Capital is a business funding company that came to us after running mostly outbound. They didn't really have an online presence, no SEO foundation, and they were competing against incumbents that had invested in SEO for years. In this solo episode, Devesh walks through their Traqer dashboard and shows exactly how they went from roughly zero AI visibility to ~30% across ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini, AI Overviews, and AI Mode- and which parts are still at zero, and why that's fine.

Covered in this episode:

→ Why new brands can't get into an LLM's training data — and why web search is your only realistic wedge in

→ The Prioritized GEO pyramid, and why owned content beats off-site mentions when you're starting from nothing

→ Why a single blended "AI visibility %" is misleading and trivially gameable — drop the topics you lose and the number goes up

→ Why prompt tracking is not keyword research, what clickstream data actually is, and why it misses your B2B buyer entirely

→ The self-promotion myth, busted: Redline's own product page is the #1 citation and a named brand mention in ChatGPT, ranked above NerdWallet, Wall Street Journal, and Forbes

→ Citations ≠ brand mentions — and why getting cited ninth is worth almost nothing

→ Why attribution gets harder as you win: when LLMs name your brand without linking, people just Google you, and it lands as direct traffic

Prioritized GEO
Invisible Prompts
Topic-Based GEO
Pain Point SEO
Traqer (our AI visibility tool)

Questions about your own brand? Drop them in the comments, we read all of them.

Newsletter

Most GEO advice is wrong. Everyone's recommending llms.txt files, FAQ schemas, and content tweaks, but none of that actually influences whether ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini recommend your brand.

In this webinar, Devesh Khanal (co-founder of Grow & Convert) breaks down what actually drives visibility in AI search.

You'll learn:
- Why most AI traffic is "dark traffic" you can't measure in analytics
- The flawed advice everyone's following (and why it won't move the needle)
- About our GEO prioritization pyramid that we use to get real visibility for clients (and why tier 1 content matters most)
- How to stop thinking in keywords and start thinking in topics
- How to measure AI visibility without clean attribution

If you're doing GEO or trying to be visible in ChatGPT, Claude, and other LLMs, this framework flips the script on what most people are doing.

Related content:
Topic Based GEO
Prioritized GEO

Learn more:
📧 Join our newsletter: growandconvert.com
🔧 Try Traqer.ai (7-day free trial): traqer.ai
💼 Work with us: growandconvert.com

"Third-party content drives 85% of brand discovery in LLMs." It's the GEO stat making the rounds on LinkedIn right now, and a lot of marketers are using it to argue that your own site content doesn't matter anymore- that GEO is really about getting mentioned everywhere else.

We disagree. And we have client data that contradicts it.

In this episode, Devesh and Benji break down where this narrative came from (an Air Ops post citing a Graphite study), where the methodology breaks down, and what we're actually seeing across our clients in Traqer.ai. 

The short version: big brands like Salesforce and Peloton skew studies like this because they already have category-level brand awareness. 

For smaller players like Toro TMS and Climb Hire, clients we've worked with where their own content is essentially all we've done, they're pulling strong brand mentions across ChatGPT, Perplexity, AI Overviews, AI Mode, and Gemini. That's not third-party publications doing the work.

We also get into:
– Why Perplexity, AI Overviews, and AI Mode behave differently than ChatGPT and Gemini (and what visibility numbers look like across each)
– The growing evidence that LLMs may decide what to recommend from training data and a loose SERP read first, then find sources to cite after the fact
– Why competitive categories (CRM, exercise bikes, content marketing agencies) need a different playbook than less-saturated ones
– Why your own site is the only place with enough canvas to spell out the specific use cases, pain points, and customer types that LLMs match against real user conversations

Referenced posts: Invisible Prompts and Topic-Based GEO
https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/invisible-prompts/
https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/topic-based-geo/

This is the companion to last week's episode on self-promotional listicles for SEO. Watch that one first if you haven't.

Subscribe for new episodes. Newsletter and full written breakdowns: growandconvert.com/newsletter

#GEO #AISearch #ContentMarketing

"Self-promotional listicles are dying" is the new SEO narrative making the rounds and we've had multiple clients Slack us asking if we should change our strategy of producing list posts.

In this episode, we break down Lily Ray's Substack post that started it all, walk through why the data she shared shows correlation but not causation, and pull up the actual rankings of category-keyword listicles we run for clients to show what's really happening after the late-January 2026 traffic dip.

Then we get into the part nobody else is talking about: 
- How to actually write these posts so they hold up through core updates. 
-Why you don't need to force-rank a list. 
-Why you don't need to call yourself "the best." 
-Why the first-person "I tried all 15 of these" framing is a lie that backfires. 
-And why product schema hacks will get your site torched.

We walk through a negative example, then show two posts that have ranked through multiple Google updates- our own "Best Content Marketing Agencies" post and a client example in trucking management software.

The full written breakdown with screenshots and ranking data is going up on the blog — link in the newsletter: 
growandconvert.com/newsletter

Full blog post on this topic: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/self-promotional-listicles/

A client told us ChatGPT kept recommending Grow and Convert until she had to reach out. So we copied her exact prompt into an incognito window. We were nowhere to be found. That one example changed how we think about AI search strategy entirely.

In this episode, we introduce Topic-Based GEO, our new framework for content strategy in the age of AI search. 

We explain the concept of "invisible prompts" (the personalized context behind every AI search that makes prompt-level tracking unreliable), walk through how to build a topic map for your business, and share practical steps for creating the kind of content that actually gets LLMs to recommend you.

Most people optimizing for AI search are focused on the wrong metric.

Getting cited by an AI model feels like a win but a citation doesn't mean you're actually influencing the answer. 

And after sampling AI search prompts over 20,000 times, the data makes that painfully clear.

In this episode, Devesh and Benji from Grow and Convert sit down with Bernard from Clearscope to break down what's really driving AI recommendations and what isn't. 

They get into why Gemini searches an average of 5.7 times per query while ChatGPT barely searches at all, why Google appears to be actively suppressing brand citations even when it mentions you, and why the GEO "hacks" everyone's pushing right now (schema, Reddit, you name it) aren't moving the needle.

The bigger takeaway: training data controls 70–80% of what AI recommends. Web search only affects 20–30%. Which means the content strategy that actually works in this new era isn't about producing more it's about going way more specific.

In this episode:

• Why getting cited by AI ≠ influencing the answer

• Gemini vs. ChatGPT: how differently they search (and why it matters for your strategy)

• The brand suppression finding: why mentioning yourself might be hurting your citations

• Why "Content 2.0" is about persona-specific, long-tail content not volume

• How Grow and Convert is evolving Pain Point SEO for the AI search era

Relevant articles:
Invisible prompts: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/invisible-prompts/
Topic Based GEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/topic-based-geo/

Your ChatGPT traffic is probably 5-10x higher than what your analytics shows.

We used to think AI traffic was a small fraction of Google. We showed you the data a few episodes back — ChatGPT was about 3-4% of organic Google traffic across our clients.

We've revised our thinking.

In this episode, we break down why analytics tools are dramatically underreporting LLM-driven traffic and leads, why Google AI Overviews are creating the same attribution blind spot, and what you should actually be doing about it.

The core issue: when someone discovers your brand in ChatGPT or a Google AI Overview, they don't click a trackable link. They open a new tab, Google your name, and land on your homepage. Your analytics says "direct" or "organic." The real source? An LLM.

The only way to know? Ask them.

We walk through real examples from our own data and client accounts, show exactly how this plays out in ChatGPT and Google AI Overviews, and share what we're changing in how we measure and report on content performance.

For the last 10-15 years, marketing has been dominated by the performance marketer - everything measurable, everything attributable. Creative marketers with big campaign ideas couldn't get the budget or the dev and design resources to bring them to life. AI is about to flip that.

Now a single creative marketer can go from vision to finished product- building interactive tools, data-driven content pieces, mini apps, landing pages- without waiting on developers or designers. 

The people with the best ideas (not just the biggest budgets) are about to win.

In this episode, Devesh and Benji break down why this shift is happening, how Grow and Convert is using AI internally to maintain their quality bar while unlocking entirely new types of content projects, and why most agencies pumping out automated AI content are setting themselves up for failure.

We also cover which AI predictions from 2023 actually came true, what Google's "shadow penalties" look like in practice when marketers try to automate content, and why producing written blog posts at a high level is about to become table stakes for good content teams.

Read the article: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-creative-marketer/

Did you know that when you ask ChatGPT for a product recommendation, ChatGPT can recommend 50+ different brands for the same prompt?

In this episode, we break down Rand Fishkin's latest research on the extreme variance in AI search results across ChatGPT, Claude, and Google AI Overviews. 

His team gathered 600 volunteers, ran nearly 3,000 queries, and the findings are eye-opening. Here are some key insights:

• LLMs can share 50 different companies for each product related prompt. 

• The chance of getting the exact same list of brands twice is less than 1%.

• The top 6 brands are mentioned over 80% of the time. 

So what does this mean for marketers trying to track their GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) performance?

Most AI visibility tools give you a misleading snapshot — you ran one prompt, you showed up, and you think you're winning. But run it again and you might not show up at all.

We walk through Rand's key charts and takeaways, explain why "rank" is meaningless in AI results (unlike SEO), and show how the top brands in any category still get mentioned consistently 70-90%+ of the time.

Then we hop into Traqer.ai to show how our topic-based GEO approach — running multiple prompt variations per topic — gives you a far more accurate and responsible picture of your actual AI visibility.

If you're doing GEO or reporting on AI visibility to leadership, this is a must-watch.

📖 Rand Fishkin's full blog post: https://sparktoro.com/blog/new-research-ais-are-highly-inconsistent-when-recommending-brands-or-products-marketers-should-take-care-when-tracking-ai-visibility/
🔗 Our blog post on Topic Based GEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/topic-based-geo/
🔗 Check out Traqer: https://www.traqer.ai/

(Sorry about the audio quality on this one, it was recorded with the wrong microphone-- this episode is better viewed with screen share on Youtube)

Most teams struggle with AI writing tools because they try to use them as a replacement for writers (and they use tools that don't understand the core arguments of what is trying to be said).

In this video, Devesh walks through a real example of how he uses our AI writing tool Wave Writer at Grow & Convert to edit and restructure content. You’ll see how a rough outline and half-formed ideas can be turned into clear, on-brand draft copy, without losing the core ideas and without hallucinations.

The video covers:

• How outlining arguments first leads to better AI output

• How to speed up the editing and content creation process using Wave Writer

• Why writing final prose is the slowest part of content work

If you’re responsible for editing content, managing writers, or shaping content strategy, this video shows a practical way to use AI that supports thinking instead of trying to replace it.

Check out our product https://www.wavewriter.ai if you're interested in using an AI writing tool that understands your business, key arguments and helps speed up the writing process while keeping content quality high.

Most marketers track their AI visibility… but have no idea what to do next.
This episode shows the exact GEO strategy to actually increase your mentions in ChatGPT and Perplexity.

In this episode, we show you exactly how to implement GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) the strategy brands are using to increase their mentions inside LLM answers.

You’ll learn:

• Why most AI rank trackers are inaccurate and how we rebuilt Tracker to scrape real results (not API hallucinations)
• How to turn visibility data into action — what content to publish, what topics to prioritize, and where your gaps really are
• The GEO Pyramid and why 90% of marketers focus on the wrong tactics
• How to find the exact pages LLMs are citing — and how to influence them with targeted content and outreach
• Why you MUST choose bottom-of-funnel topics if you want actual pipeline from AI
• A step-by-step walkthrough of improving visibility for a real company using owned content + targeted citation outreach

If you want a clear, repeatable strategy for ranking in ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews, this episode breaks it down.

📩 Join the newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter
🔧 Learn more about Tracker: https://www.traqer.ai
GEO Pyramid article

Are you focusing your AI visibility and PR efforts on Reddit, Wikipedia, and media sites like The New York Times? You could be wasting your time and money.

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, we dive into the data from our new study on Large Language Model (LLM) citation patterns. We reveal why the advice you see on LinkedIn and in broad industry reports—telling you to chase large, general-purpose sites—is completely misleading for most businesses, especially B2B and niche companies.

What You'll Learn:
86% of citations are for industry specific sites vs. 14% for "general purpose sites": See actual data from our client base that shows 86% of LLM citations for niche topics come from industry-specific publications, while Reddit, Wikipedia, and YouTube account for only 14%.

Differences in how to approach AI visibility for your brand vs. Household name brands: Discover why B2C household names (like Tesla and Peloton) do get cited on general sites, but your niche B2B software company won't.

The problem with measuring random prompts: Understand how broad studies that use 5,000 randomly selected keywords are statistically biased toward consumer queries, making their findings irrelevant to your specific business goals.

A New Tactical Framework: Learn the exact, actionable steps for a Citation Outreach strategy that works : how to choose the right topics, identify the actual cited domains using tools or manual checks, and target your PR efforts where they will actually drive AI visibility.

Stop doing general PR and start showing up in the AI answers that matter to your bottom line.

Links & Resources:
Read the full article for more detail on the study: https://www.growandconvert.com/research/llms-source-industry-sites-more-than-generic-sites/

Check out our AI Visibility Tool: https://traqer.ai 

Catch up on our overall GEO Framework: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/prioritized-geo/ 

Don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment to support the Grow and Convert Marketing Show!

Marketers are wasting time chasing the wrong AI tactics. Everyone’s debating “Should we post on Reddit? Add LLM.txt? Write summaries for LLMs?” — but missing the real priority.

In this video, we introduce Prioritized GEO, our framework for how to actually show up in AI search (ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews). We break down:

-Why owned content on your site matters more than offsite mentions

-How to think about AI search visibility

-What actually influences ChatGPT, Perplexity and AI overview results

-And why most “AI hacks” (like key takeaways and LLM.txt) don’t move the needle

If you want to understand how AI decides which brands to recommend — and how to position yours to be the one it chooses — this is the video to watch.

📘 Read the full article: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/prioritized-geo/
Check out https://traqer.ai -- our new AI visibility tool
🎧 Subscribe to the Grow & Convert podcast for more in-depth conversations.

Everyone says SEO is dead… but our client data tells a different story. We compare SEO traffic vs. AI traffic (ChatGPT, Perplexity, etc.) and reveal what’s actually driving conversions — and why it’s not “SEO vs. AI,” it’s both.
___
SEO is dead? Not so fast.

In this episode, we share real client data comparing traditional SEO traffic vs. AI traffic (ChatGPT, Perplexity, DeepSeek, etc.). The numbers tell a very different story than the LinkedIn fear-mongering around SEO dying.

-AI traffic is growing, but it’s still only ~3–5% of SEO traffic for most clients

-Conversions often come from unexpected places (hint: not just ChatGPT)

-Declines in SEO traffic don’t mean SEO is dead — they often show up as branded searches or conversions through other channels

-Attribution is getting harder, but that doesn’t mean the channel stopped working

We break down the myths, show the actual ratios, and explain why you shouldn’t buy into the “SEO vs. AI” narrative. It’s not either/or — they work together.

If you’ve seen graphs going down and clients freaking out about AI, this episode will help you cut through the noise and actually understand what’s happening.

Are you worried your competitors are “winning” in AI search results?
You’re not alone. A lot of marketers, CMOs, and founders are asking the same thing.

In this episode of the Grow & Convert Marketing Show, we break down:

• What AI visibility actually means (and why most tools get it wrong)
• Why “share of voice” metrics can create unnecessary panic
• How to separate meaningful prompts from noise
• The strong connection between SEO rankings and AI overview rankings
• A simple framework for deciding which topics actually matter for your brand

Rather than chasing every metric or competitor mention, we show you how to focus on the right queries, do the SEO fundamentals first, and build a strategy that drives long-term results.

If you’ve ever felt stressed looking at an AI visibility report, this episode will help you filter out the noise and focus on what actually grows your business.

AI search is a fundamentally different search experience from Google, and the implications are massive for how people discover brands and products.

Here's what we've discovered so far:

- People don't just type keywords into ChatGPT - they have detailed conversations with tons of context
- Top-of-funnel "what is" content is officially dead in AI search
- Your positioning and value props determine if you get recommended (or ignored)
- Specific pain point content now matters more than ever

Key insights from this episode:
✅ How ChatGPT positions different companies (and why some get terrible descriptions)
✅ Why broad content strategies will fail in the AI search era
✅ The new content approach that actually gets you mentioned

We'll show you actual ChatGPT conversations from prospects who found us, plus live searches showing how different agencies get positioned.

The bottom line: AI search rewards specificity and clear positioning. Generic content and broad messaging will make you invisible.

🔗 Check out our AI search ranking tracker: https://traqer.ai

📖 Read the full article: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-search/

What's your experience with AI search? Drop a comment below!

We Built an AI Search Ranking Tool (And You Can Use It Too!)

Tired of wondering if your brand shows up when people ask ChatGPT, Perplexity, or Google AI for recommendations? We were too. That's why we built Traqer.ai - the first tool designed specifically for agencies and companies to track their brand mentions across AI search engines.
In this episode, we share the complete backstory of how we went from manually checking AI rankings for clients to building our own solution. You'll see exactly how the tool works, why existing options weren't cutting it for agencies, and how we're using it to guide our content strategy.

What you'll learn:

- Why AI search visibility is becoming crucial for lead attribution
- How to track your brand across ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, and Google AI
- The key differences between AI search and traditional SEO tracking
- Live walkthrough of Traqer.ai 
- How to use keyword variations to understand your AI visibility gaps

Perfect for: Marketing agencies, SEO professionals, brand managers, and anyone wondering "Am I showing up in AI search results?"

The tool handles unlimited brands (perfect for agencies), tracks specific keywords you care about, and shows you the exact AI responses where your brand appears. Plus, we're sharing our honest take on the challenges of AI search attribution and why this approach works.

Try Traqer.ai yourself for free with a 7 day trial: http://traqer.ai

Here's articles that were referenced in the video:
How SEO Will Change in a World of AI Search: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-search/
Does Google SEO Affect LLM Optimization? We Analyzed 400+ Keywords to Find Out: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/google-seo-and-llmo/

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, we discuss our journey creating an AI writing tool designed to mirror the way we produce content.

Unlike existing solutions that prioritize speed over quality, our tool first deeply understands your business before generating content.

After discovering that 83% of marketers use AI-assisted content despite quality concerns, we identified the fundamental problem: generic AI writing tools produce "Google research papers" that lack a company's unique voice and arguments. 

Our solution? 

A tool that analyzes your existing content to create a comprehensive "brand summary" capturing your business's value proposition, features, target customers, and pain points.

The highlight of our tool is the "super brief" feature - simply input a keyword and the AI analyzes search intent, SERP patterns, and suggests content formats while providing ways to pitch your business specifically for that keyword.

Key Learnings:

-Most AI writing tools fail because they don't understand your business's unique positioning and arguments
-83% of marketers use AI content despite quality concerns, primarily for time savings
-The "brand summary" approach ensures AI truly understands your business before writing
-Our tool generates strategic ideas (not just language), reversing the typical -AI writing workflow
-AI writing can be high-quality and conversion-focused when it understands your business first
-The "super brief" feature analyzes keywords and SERPs to suggest angles and approaches to produce pieces that will rank
-Effective AI content requires understanding both what to write and how to write it

We'd love your feedback about the tool and suggestions to make it better. Please leave feedback in the comments.

Articles that we reference in the video:
Pain Point SEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/pain-point-seo/
How Marketers Are Using AI for Writing [Survey]: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-writing-survey/

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, Devesh and Benji reveal why comparison keywords convert at a shocking 8.43%+ rate - and why most companies are afraid to target them.

We break down:
- Common objections from leadership teams that are hesitant to target these types of keywords
- Three practical approaches to creating comparison content without "trashing" competitors
- Examples of competitor and alternatives articles from companies like ClimbHire, Boken, and TapClicks

If you've been avoiding competitor keywords because they feel uncomfortable or unprofessional, this episode will show you how to approach them tastefully while capturing high-intent buyers already searching for alternatives.

Follow us at growandconvert.com/newsletter for articles and updates when new videos are released!

Helpful articles:
SEO conversion rates: https://www.growandconvert.com/conversion-rate-optimization/average-seo-conversion-rate/
Competitor comparison pages: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/competitor-comparison-landing-pages/
SERP analysis: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/how-to-do-serp-analysis/

This one is likely better to be watched on Youtube (so you can see the writing and editing).

In this episode of the Grow & Convert Marketing Show, we break down a real blog post about website feedback tools to reveal common content writing mistakes. Watch as we critique the article and transform it from generic to compelling by:

- Identifying proper search intent and avoiding the "high school research paper" intro
- Showing how to position your true product differentiator instead of using generic claims
- Demonstrating how to write for advanced audiences who already understand your category
- Explaining why pain points should be concise and relevant to your reader's current stage

Whether you're writing bottom-of-funnel content or product comparisons, these principles will help you create more effective content marketing that actually drives conversions.

📈 Join our newsletter: https://www.growandconvert.com/newsletter/
🎧 Listen to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-and-convert-marketing-show/id1652941589
📘 Learn more about SEO content writing: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/seo-content-writing/
The detail principle for writing good blog posts: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/how-to-write-a-good-blog-post/

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, Devesh and Benji break down their proven SERP analysis framework - the process they use for clients to identify high-converting content opportunities.

Watch as they analyze real SERP examples for AI writing tools keywords, revealing:

• How to determine if a keyword is worth targeting
• The difference between category and jobs-to-be-done keywords from a SERP perspective
• How to spot opportunities in mixed-intent SERPs
• When to create one piece vs. multiple pieces for similar keywords
• Why high search volume doesn't always equal high priority
• How to use SERP analysis to rank

Whether you're creating content for clients or your own business, this practical walkthrough shows you how to create content that actually ranks and converts.

📈 Join our newsletter: https://www.growandconvert.com/newsle...
🎧 Listen to the podcast: [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...]
📘 Learn more about Pain Point SEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Read our blog post on SERP analysis: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/ho...

In this episode, we discuss the power of brand marketing versus our typical focus on bottom-of-funnel content.

While Grow and Convert is known for our bottom-of-funnel first approach to  content marketing, we explore how creating a strong brand presence generates "free leads" - those customers who can't pinpoint exactly how they found us, but remember our brand when they need our services.

We cover key topics including:

• When to focus on bottom-of-funnel vs. when to invest in broader brand building
• Why top-of-funnel SEO content often fails to grow a brand
• How different companies create their unique "wow moments" (Dropbox, Peloton, ClearScope)
• Finding the right marketing approach based on your company's natural strengths and differentiators

In this episode, we break down our proven framework for writing high-converting blog posts that can outrank even the biggest competitors. Through three real-world examples, we show you exactly how to write bottom-of-funnel content that both ranks and converts.

You'll learn:

• How to write ultra-specific content that shows deep industry expertise

• Why most category blog posts fail to convert (and how to fix them)

• Why we prefer using blog posts to target category keywords over landing pages

🔍 Case Studies Featured:

• Toro TMS (QuickBooks trucking software)

• ServiceTitan (inventory management for electrical contractors)

• Fusion Academy (best schools for sensory processing disorder)

We conducted a secret experiment: writing and publishing a Grow & Convert blog post without telling anyone that we used AI to produce it. In this video, we reveal how it went and share honest insights about using AI for content creation.

Our content strategist and writer Katelyn Urich walks through her process of using different AI tools (Claude and NotebookLM) to write a full blog post, the unexpected challenges she faced, and why the experience actually made her writing worse. 

We discuss:

-Why traditional AI writing approaches lead to "mirage content", in other words content that looks good, but lacks substance
-How we used NotebookLM in an unusual way to maintain our signature brand voice and expertise
-The hidden problem with AI writing that becomes apparent only after multiple rounds of editing
-Why AI writing tools might save time for some content creators but fall short for high-stakes content
-Practical ways to use AI as a writing assistant without compromising quality

We share both the promising and problematic aspects of AI writing tools, helping you make informed decisions about incorporating them into your content process.

We dive deep into our study examining the correlation between Google rankings and AI search tool recommendations. Join Benji, Devesh, and special guest Katelyn as we analyze data from 16 clients across 415 keywords to understand how Google rankings influence visibility in tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity.

Key Findings:

• 70%+ correlation between Google page 1 rankings and AI tool recommendations
• Higher Google ranking positions (top 3) showed even stronger correlation
• Domain Rating shows significant correlation with AI tool visibility
• Different patterns observed across industry verticals and keyword types

📊 Study Details:

16 clients analyzed
415 keywords examined
Tools studied: ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude
Focus on bottom-of-funnel keywords

💡 Key Takeaways:

Strong correlation suggests traditional SEO efforts may help with AI visibility
Higher domain authority correlates with better AI tool presence
Service businesses showed different patterns than SaaS companies
Medical content showed lower AI visibility, possibly due to liability concerns

🔗 Resources Mentioned:

Full study writeup coming soon on growandconvert.com
Follow us for updates: @growandconvert
Subscribe to our newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter

In this episode, we dive deep into how AI is transforming content marketing and SEO in 2025. We explore both the search and content creation aspects of AI, sharing real data from our agency experience and a recent survey of content marketers.

Key Topics Covered:
[0:00] Introduction and episode overview
[1:00] Background on our recent travels and company retreat
[2:00] Two main aspects of AI in content marketing: content generation and search
[4:00] Changes in search behavior and SEO with AI tools
[6:00] Real examples of leads coming from ChatGPT
[8:00] How AI tools recommend content differently from Google
[11:00] Our analysis of AI tool recommendations vs Google rankings
[17:00] Why content still matters for AI visibility
[21:00] Changes in content consumption patterns
[24:00] The future of content distribution across channels
[29:00] AI content writing experiments and survey results
[36:00] Challenges with AI-generated content
[39:00] Survey insights on AI content adoption

💡 Key Findings:

• 70%+ correlation between Google rankings and AI tool recommendations

• 83% of surveyed marketers have published AI-assisted content

• Major challenges remain with AI content quality and precision

• Content remains crucial for visibility in both Google and AI tools

🔗 Resources Mentioned:

Full survey results coming soon at growandconvert.com/blog
Follow us on Twitter @growandconvert
Subscribe to our newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter

📱 Connect With Us:
Website: https://www.growandconvert.com
Twitter: @growandconvert
Newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter
Don't forget to subscribe for more insights on content marketing, SEO, and AI! New episodes every week.

In this video, we dive deep into how to use Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) keywords for your blog content to drive higher conversions. 

📌 What You'll Learn:

- What are Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) keywords?
- Examples of JTBD keywords
- How to come up with JTBD keywords for your business
- JTBD conversion data
- Which JTBD keywords convert the highest.

💡 Don’t forget to subscribe for more content on SEO, content marketing strategies, and conversion optimization!

Competitor keywords are the highest converting type of keyword in the pain point SEO framework. More on SEO conversion rates here: https://www.growandconvert.com/conversion-rate-optimization/average-seo-conversion-rate/

We discuss:
- Should you create landing pages vs. blog posts to target competitor keywords
- Vs. Keywords and a more advanced strategy of going after vs. keywords
- Alternatives Keywords
- Writing tips for going after competitor and vs. keywords
- and more!

Additional reading:
Landing page vs. blog posts: 
https://www.growandconvert.com/conversion-rate-optimization/landing-pages-vs-blog-posts/
Pain Point SEO: 
https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/pain-point-seo/
Circuit Case Study
https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/scaling-seo-traffic/

n this episode, we do a in-depth dive into what category keywords are and how to use them to drive more blog post conversions.

In the reverse marketing funnel diagram that you can find in our blog post on Pain Point SEO, category keywords are some of the highest converting keywords. We explain how to identify which keywords would be best to target and share data on different ways to approach them to increase your conversion rate.

SEO conversion rate article

Historically, we only updated blog posts to try to increase ranking positions. However, through that process of updating blog posts, we realized how much the actual writing of pieces matters.

Specifically, we've been updating blog posts for two different clients that helped sell and position the product or service better and have seen conversion rate increases between 66%-950% per blog post.

We share our thoughts as to why this is and make the case for why more businesses should adopt our approach to blog post writing.

Relevant articles:
https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/how-often-should-website-content-be-updated/
https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/secondary-keywords/

A recent news story from someone that worked at Nike is making its way around Twitter and LinkedIn. The ex-employee claims that the loss of $25B has to do with Nike's focus on performance marketing instead of brand marketing.

Marketers are taking to Twitter and LinkedIn to take sides: 
"See, this is why you should focus on brand marketing" - Brand Marketer
"No! Performance marketing still works"- Performance marketer

We share our thoughts on this topic and share when we think each type of marketing makes sense. Hope you enjoy the debate!

The linkedin post: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nike-epic-saga-value-destruction-massimo-giunco-llplf/?trackingId=4hwmp4UlQNyDwPI%2F%2BSN2kA%3D%3D

Although we've largely moved away from doing episodes about our agency and have focused more on marketing strategy episodes, we made a commitment to sharing our growth journey and struggles as we go.

In this episode, we'll share our stats for June and July - both new clients and churn - and we discuss the issues we're facing.

Specifically:
- How we're almost at capacity and how we're solving this
- How hiring is a growth limiter
- Why growing quickly isn't advantageous to an agency

and more...

We often get asked by prospects interested in working with us, "how long does it take to start seeing results from SEO and content marketing? It's not an easy question to answer because there are multiple factors that go into it:
1. What is the definition of results?
2. What is the conversion goal? Trials, demos, MQLs, SQLs, etc.
3. How many conversions are you already driving through other channels?
And more...

In this episode, we share a ton of different data to help answer this question. We share our own client data to show how long it takes to start seeing rankings and conversions. We share how we do expectation setting around rankings, traffic and conversions. Then we answer some common questions around does domain rating play into speed and how does keyword difficulty affect rankings?

Articles featured in the episode:
Disruption stories: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/disruption-stories/
How long does it take for content marketing to work: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/how-long-does-it-take-for-content-marketing-to-work/

In this episode, we talk through how a content strategy evolves overtime. We break down content strategy into a 3-tier system to help you understand how the process evolves. 

How a content strategy evolves:
Tier 1: Testing ability and time to rank
Tier 2: Scaling
Tier 3: Maintaining/Defending rankings

We share our thought process around how to test keywords and how to measure success throughout an engagement, or through your work inside of a business.

Hope you enjoy this episode!

Other helpful articles:

More on updating: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/secondary-keywords/
SaaS content strategy: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/saas-content-strategy/
B2B content marketing strategy: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/b2b-content-marketing-strategy/

In this episode, we debate why most companies shouldn't AB test. AB testing has become super popular over the years... Executives often want you to AB test every little thing to try to maximize the impact of all of your marketing efforts. 

Devesh explains why for most companies, it doesn't make sense to AB test. 

We share that reasoning and then we talk about what you should do instead of AB testing to increase conversions. Devesh shares some funny stories from his time running an AB testing agency. Then Devesh shares how to use a conversion rate calculator.

We hope you enjoy this episode!

In this monthly update, we share our client count relative to our goal, our churn, how many leads we got in May and our general sentiment around leads. Then we share what marketing has and hasn't worked and how marketing differs for service businesses.

When you've identified a keyword or topic for a blog post, how do you get the arguments that go in your piece? We interview subject matter experts at Grow and Convert to accomplish this. In this video,  we share how we prep for interviews with subject matter experts, who to interview, and how to add differentiation in your articles when writing for SEO bottom of the funnel keywords.

Devesh and I debate whether we should focus more on how-to content on this channel because it seems to be what gets the most viewership and engagement.

We reflect on the series so far, our overall goal of doubling the agency and discuss whether we continue the series as is, or we go down a slightly different path.

If you've enjoyed certain episodes, please let us know which ones you've loved in the comments. Or, feel free to let us know topics you'd like us to create videos on going forward.

Your business is starting to grow and now you need more of a process around marketing... so you're thinking of hiring your first marketer.

What is the right profile of the marketer you should hire?
What should that marketer focus on in the first 90 days?
How should they think about what marketing channels to focus on?
What's a good budget to start with?

We answer these questions and more in this episode. We share, from our experience, the mistakes that founders make when hiring their first marketer and how they should think about hiring.

We share stories, examples and more. Hope you enjoy this episode.

P.S. We're starting to shift the content of this channel to more strategy focus. Let us know if you like this topic in the comments.

Video Resources:
Positioning: https://www.growandconvert.com/marketing/positioning/
Positioning Case Study: https://www.growandconvert.com/marketing/positioning-case-study/
Pivoting our service offering from course to agency: 
https://www.growandconvert.com/marketing/course-launch-agency/

In this episode, Devesh starts off by sharing the two goals of the content pieces we write for clients. Then he shares examples explaining the differences between how we write articles vs. how most blog writers write articles.

We dissect the differences in how we write blog post introductions, body copy and share why we think it's important to have subject matter experts make the arguments that go inside of blog posts.

This episode should help you learn how to write better copy inside of articles that are targeting SEO keywords.

Article examples:

Omnichannel reporting example: https://www.tapclicks.com/resources/b...
Segment example: https://segment.com/growth-center/omn...
Mandala AI Example:
https://blog.mandalasystem.com/en/omn...

Grow and Convert writing related articles:

The detail principle for writing good blog posts: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...
Writing great blog introductions: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...
Pain point copywriting: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

In this episode, we share where we are relative to our doubling the agency goal. Then we talk through what's been working from a marketing perspective and some of the operational challenges that we're anticipating if we keep growing this quickly.

In Episode 10, the episode about content strategies for new businesses, we shared that we were planning on doing a disruption story for one of our clients. 

In this episode, we share who the client is (Mirascope.io), the article and talk through some decisions that were made when writing the story.

Then we share a couple of other examples of disruption stories that we've produced for clients. 

Can SEO content also be "thought leadership content?" Many people think these two kinds of content are completely different. More specifically, that you can't share thought leadership type ideas inside of SEO content and get articles to rank.

We share a different view. We think that SEO and thought leadership ideas do go together. In this video, we share multiple examples of thought leadership ideas being included inside of SEO focused articles and show how they're able to rank against articles that all share largely the same ideas.

We think that Google wants more differentiation in content and will start to reward differentiation more in the SERPS.

March was a challenging month for us. We had our first churn of the year- which was not a great way to start the month- however it ended on a positive note.

We discuss the churn, some new clients, our lead numbers and then share some ideas for changes we're going to be making to our marketing.

Enjoy.

LinkedIn influencer claims that: "Measuring the ROI of an individual piece of content (like this LinkedIn video, for instance) is not only a huge waste of time, it’s flat out not accurate.

When it comes to “ROI”, focus on measuring the ROI of the *channel* instead of each individual piece of content."

In this video, we break down why that argument is completely flawed. 

We discuss how having the article level of granularity in conversion data is what led to the creation of Pain Point SEO and how this informs future content pieces that generate ROI.

Then we share a new process for tracking conversions using a combination of GA4 and BigQuery.

In this episode, we discuss whether we should hire an editor to help scale writing operations. Devesh voices his frustration by spending so much time editing pieces -- most of his time in the agency is dedicated to editing and he feels like he doesn't have time to focus elsewhere.

We propose the options of hiring an outside agency to help with editing, whether we should focus on hiring someone internally, and also discuss other ideas and options. 

In this episode, we share why we took a client with a new business and domain rating of only 0.5 (didn't even know this was possible). Then we share the approach we're taking to grow their business from the ground up with content.

As part of the content strategy for this new business, we decided to create a disruption story for them. We talk about what the disruption story framework is, how we came up with the angle and idea for them and then talk through how the team outlined the piece.

In this episode, we share our client stats for the month of February. We analyze the leads we've received, we share why we don't work with software development companies as clients and share some ideas on how we'd attack SEO if we were a software development company, and then we spend a lengthy time discussing if we should hire an editor.

The main challenge going forward is that we need to free up Devesh's time as most of it is spent editing new strategists and some of our current strategists. If we scale, we need to get him out of the day to day operations.

We talk through the pros and cons of hiring an editor, then finish the video talking through some other big picture challenges for the business.

Seven months into one of our engagements, the CEO asked us "when will the volume of high-quality leads start to go up?" The typical answer from most marketers is to say "I don't know" or "it depends," but we wanted to provided a more data driven answer.

We knew that the client was likely 1-2 months away from seeing a big lift in the volume of leads due to where they were already ranking for high-intent keywords. Now, we had the challenge of presenting the argument and data to them.

In Episode 8, we share projections that we did to help make the case that we were on the cusp of achieving ROI and share our thoughts and analysis of where the client is at 7 months into the engagement.

In Episode 7, we bring in a guest. David Klose, one of our content strategists, joins us to talk about his experience updating blog posts. More specifically, we discuss 2 client accounts that had declining results (both ranking and leads) and how there was a need to get rankings back up.

David shares the approach he took on two different accounts to bring the accounts back from a low in the engagement to new all-time-highs.

This episode shares a mix between the thought process that was going on behind the scenes internally as well as more of the tactical approach we took to recover rankings.

Hope you enjoy this episode!

Here's his article on his approach to reclaim rankings: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/secondary-keywords/