In this episode, we sit down with Boone local Sam Dospoy—woodworker, van builder, and climber deeply rooted in North Carolina’s High Country. Sam shares how a two year stint dirtbagging in a minivan sparked both his love of climbing and his custom van build business, Stand Up Vans. We dig into his early days of bouldering over couch cushions at Blowing Rock, the tight-knit and low-beta climbing scene in Boone, and his progression into bold trad climbing and first ascents.

Sam reflects on mentorship, the local ethics around development, and the draw of uncovering untouched rock. We also get into the nitty gritty of what it takes to repeat some of 221's most infamous and hardest trad routes, his futuristic project at Hawksbill, how bouldering has shaped his trad climbing, and what it looks like bolting steep routes ground up while hanging from sketchy hooks.

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Climbing in Boone with Sam Dospoy: https://youtu.be/rEkMJdHC4gs?si=yB0C2b23oQV64-Gc

The Castaway - Ship Rock: https://youtu.be/h6DG1F8K5qQ?si=IYFZRSrYfohA1NVV

Blowing Rock Boulders: https://youtu.be/rEkMJdHC4gs?si=yB0C2b23oQV64-Gc

Fire in the Hole: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/117126148/fire-in-the-hole

Hawksbill Project: https://www.instagram.com/p/B571Y-XD-gN/

Heirloom (Moon Rocks Corridor Project): https://www.instagram.com/p/CM7QCbtDzZo/

Ishmael (Stack Rock): https://www.instagram.com/p/BaJ61_CAQ-H/

Pyramid Scheme: https://www.instagram.com/reel/B8l_ZwUJ_Pc/

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Follow Joel on Instagram: @sam_ayye_am

Check out Stand Up Vans on Instagram: @standupvans

Find a Stand Up Van that's right for you!

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Boone, North Carolina is where photographer Drew Mercer first discovered his passion for rock climbing, so it’s no surprise that his new coffee table book, In Season, is a love letter to the High Country. A modern champion of Southeastern climbing, Drew uses his lens to share the story of days spent at some of his favorite local, and arguably underappreciated, crags like Ship Rock, Grandmother Boulders, and The Dump.

We also cover Drew's dirtbag days in the Buttermilks and Hueco Tanks, an epic on the Linville Crusher, and ultimately what makes Boone the kind of place always worth coming home to.

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Get a copy of In Season through Kickstarter

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Follow Drew on Instagram

See more of Drew's work on his Website

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Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

If you tuned into the HBO reality series, The Climb, with Chris Sharma, Megan Martin and Jason Momoa, you probably recognize our next guest, Mario Stanley. A Texas based climber, Mario's impact on the local scene as a coach, guide, route developer and fellow podcast host can't be overstated. A wide ranging episode, we cover outdoor access in the Lone Star State, annual trips to Last Chance Canyon, deep water soloing in Mallorca and Mario's recent transition into documentary filmmaking. Mario then walks us through the mission of his latest film, Climb Malawi, and the impact he and guest of the Ground Up Genevive Walker had on equipping the local climbing community with the necessary skills for sustained organic growth.

You may have heard of Dad Strength before, but Erica Lineberry is making sure that you know all about Mom Strength. Better known as Cragmama, Erica is one of the Southeast's elite weekend warriors and has sent well over 100 routes of 5.12 or higher, all after having her first child! Whether she's pulling through roofs at Hidden Valley, jug bashing at the Red River Gorge or working her way down Endless Wall, it's always a family affair with Cragmama and her blog details exactly how she and her husband have kept sending while raising the next generation of young crushers. A wide ranging conversation, Erica sits down with the Ground Up crew to cover everything from her initial inspiration to start cragmama.com, sharing 5.12 projects with her son, tips & tricks for climbing with kids, and much, much more.

This one is for all the local North Carolina hardmen, the lovers of steep & spicy trad climbing, and anyone looking for a classic ground up adventure. The Mayor of Moore's himself, Tim Fisher, takes us through his 40+ year climbing career developing some of the region's best and boldest test pieces. We talk ground up ethics, adventures with other local legends like Doug Reed, Tim's shortlist of classic routes for the Southeast trad climber and route development at Moore's, Rumbling Bald, Linville Gorge and more.

One of only three participants to ever climb 300+ pitches during the 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell, Genevive Walker is a true legend of the competition. Her commitment to performance is rivaled only by her involvement in the community and she's always the first one to bring the energy to the afterparty. Join The Ground Up crew for Episode 8 as Genevive walks us through her unexpected introduction to Hell, her impressive year over year progression and the astounding culmination of her efforts as she became the only female to break the elusive 300 barrier at 24HHH.

They may not have the speed record on El Capitan, but Rob D'Anastasio and Vasya Vorotnikov have the arguably more coveted achievement of holding almost every team and individual record at 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell. For Episode 7 of The Ground Up, The Goatbusters dive deep into their record smashing accomplishments at the Horseshoe Canyon Ranch, the tactics and strategy that went into each one and what other outrageous ideas they're cooking up for this year at Hell. Hard to not walk away inspired after a conversation with the GOATs of Horseshoe Hell!

Every year as the temps begin to drop and the leaves begin to change color, the Ground Up crew heads down to Jasper, Arkansas for the greatest climbing competition on the planet, 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell. An annual affair that injects stoke into the veins of those that have participated, and bewilders those that haven't, this is truly an event worthy of the show's first miniseries. No guests this time, just Ari and Rob talking everything 24HHH, sharing their own own experiences at Horseshoe Canyon Ranch and previewing what's to come in the net few episodes. 

One of North Carolina's most prolific route developers, Nathan Brown, sits down with The Ground Up crew to share stories from developing crags all across the country and the inevitable shenanigans he's encountered bolting new lines on the sharp end. Nathan's interview takes us through his early climbing days at Stone Mountain, his vision for establishing hundreds of first ascents at Laurel Knob, the Linville Gorge, Rumbling Bald, and Looking Glass Rock, and his new projects in the front range of Colorado. Buckle up, this is a conversation you don't to want to miss.

Ari and Robert take a few minutes to introduce themselves and set the stage for what to expect from the Ground Up podcast and its guests in the episodes to come.

On Episode 4 the team welcomes notorious Gunks headpointer Eric Marx to the podcast. A regular in the New York climbing scene, Eric offers insight into his process of headpointing dangerous and difficult trad routes, what drew him to this unique climbing style and how he uses the Moon Board, bouldering and other techniques to to train when he's not plugging gear.

In Episode 3 of the Ground Up Podcast, the crew sits down with a true veteran and living legend of the North Carolina climbing scene, Bennett Harris. The closest thing you might find to a walking guidebook, Bennett has spent decades climbing at crags up and down the East Coast and shares endless stories from his time at the New River Gorge, the Obed and the Red River Gorge before opening up about a brutal climbing accident and how he was able to overcome his injury.

Training for trad climbing isn’t something most climbers think about—but Project Direct coach Dana Taylor is here to change that.

Originally from Chicago, Dana spent years sport climbing at the Red River Gorge before catching the trad bug on a trip to Wadi Rum. In this episode, she takes us through her journey into the world of limit trad climbing, what inspired her to pursue coaching, and how she’s helping clients take their trad climbing to the next level.

We also dive into some epic multi-pitch adventures at Mazama, wild mountain bike descents, and a few pivotal moments that shaped Dana’s climbing career.

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Interested in working with Dana: Project Direct Coaching

Follow Along: Instagram

From bolts to cams: My journey to trad climbing

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Mazama Multi-pitch: Flyboys

More Monkey than Funky

Separate Reality

Western North Carolina's Jacob Ward joins the show for Episode 2 of the podcast to chat about his recent efforts to repeat some of the state's king lines. The boys dive deep to cover some of Jacob's favorite routes at Looking Glass and the Red River Gorge, how his crew has helped revitalize the trad climbing community in the Southeast, a unique father son belaytionship and a little extra beta for Ari's favorite project, the Glass Menagerie.

In the their inaugural episode, the Ground Up crew sits down to speak with Mike Palmer, long time friend and climbing partner of Ari, about his climbing exploits across the continent. From cutting his teeth out in California, to exploring North Carolina's finest crags in his new backyard, the conversation covers classic Yosemite epics, bottomless margaritas in El Potrero Chico, cleaning new projects at Whiteside Mountain and much, much more.

Whether you know him as the Vampire Professor, the Banjo Man, or the founding president of the Southwestern Pennsylvania Climbers Coalition (SWPACC), you know that Joel Brady has the undeniable ability to crush nails hard rock climbs. Coming to us live from the Keystone State, Joel recalls his early days competing against legends like Chris Sharma, Dave Graham, and Tommy Caldwell in some of America's first major climbing competitions. We then get into some of his milestone contributions to the sport that have come from more than two decades of establishing and sending some of the Southeast’s hardest routes. Among them are Still Life, a benchmark 5.14b at Summersville Lake in the New River Gorge, which he first ascended at just 18 years old, and Green Magic in the Hills, a recently realized dead-vertical 5.14b at Seneca Rocks that Joel describes as his magnum opus.

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Still Life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEgbnWTMgmY ; 

Green Magic in the Hills: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/124323457/green-magic-in-the-hills 

South's Steepest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uT-XWc9ybY 

Southwestern PA Climbers Coalition: https://www.swpacc.org/ 

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Follow Joel on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vampireprofessor/ 

Photo Credit: Caleb Hills: https://www.instagram.com/calebjhills/ 

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Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

https://www.instagram.com/listentogroundup/

Speed climbing is the ultimate culmination of dozens, if not hundreds, of hours spent dialing in beta, trimming the rack, and pushing the body to move as quickly up the wall as possible. Few do it better than today's guest, Joe Kennedy, a speed climbing phenom who holds the record for the fastest bridge to bridge ascent of the legendary Naked Edge in Eldorado Canyon. He’s also known for blazing through the Flatirons, either solo or with Satan's Minions, and holds the fastest known times on "Roach’s Top 10" and the grueling "33 Spring Classics." Joe takes us through where he got the need for speed, how he teamed up with Stefan Griebel to take down the Naked Edge record, and what other epic link-ups he's got on the horizon. 

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The Naked Edge Speed Record Video: https://vimeo.com/764407847

The 33 Spring Classics: https://www.strava.com/activities/9090791867/overview 

Roach's Top 10: https://www.strava.com/activities/9899803294/overview 

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Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

https://www.instagram.com/listentogroundup/

Finding first ascents and new potential link-ups in Yosemite Valley is a rare opportunity these days, especially when they're as monumental as the QUAD! In a mind-blowingly short one year between his first NIAD (Nose in a Day), Tanner Wanish and his partner Michael Vail not only broke the speed record on the infamous Yosemite Triple Crown, but also established the Quad, a mega link-up of El Capitan, Half Dome, Mount Watkins and Washington Column. As a former Navy Seal, Tanner is no stranger to pushing himself to the limit and he's quickly making a career out of maximizing his days in the mountains and seeing what he can fit into a single 24 hour window. We chat about everything from his introduction to climbing, how Mountain Project led to mentorship from Randy Levitt, a 50-hour fast and heavy push on the Nose, and everything that lead up to the first ascent of the Quad.

While most climbers gravitate to El Potrero Chico when visiting Nuevo León, Karly Rager has spent the past five winter seasons learning the dark arts of kneebars in El Salto's tufa filled playgrounds. Fresh off her all female team's First Free Ascent of Guerreras on La Gloria, Karly reflects on what it took to achieve their FFA in the demanding Mexican alpine desert, her early years as a climber in Boulder, Colorado, and lessons learned from training hundreds of other climbers through her coaching business (@ProjectDirect_Coaching). This episode is particularly special since Robert was actually part of the documentary crew that got to film Karly and her partner Mango during their push on Guerreras.

If you've pulled onto the perfect Nuttall Sandstone of the New River Gorge, odds are you've climbed a Doug Reed route. Boasting one of the most impressive list's of first ascents in Southeastern, and perhaps national climbing history, Doug was a true pioneer of pushing the standards for both difficult and high-quality climbing during the 80's and 90's. A true legend of the steep, Doug takes us through his journey putting up an almost unfathomable 600+ combined routes at the NRG, Little River Canyon and all over North Carolina. He also helps us relive some of his most outrageous stories featuring cutting edge free solos and difficult x-rated trad-lines, before getting into his climbing hiatus and what ultimately brought him back to the sharp end of the rope.

Cover photo taken by Porter Jarrard.

The Western North Carolina climbing scene has been experiencing a recent flurry of hard ascents and Zack Mintz is certainly someone who's been at the heart of it all. A true guru of granite, Zack joins the Ground Up to cover everything from his rapid progression as a climbing guide, how "learning to fail" has helped him succeed, and his passion for capturing other climbers through the lens of his camera. He also walks us through his process for the first ascent of Invisible Brailleways, an appropriately named 5.13 slab route at the North End of Looking Glass with beta so cryptic it required film review to dial in the moves.

Hailing from the great state of Georgia, our guest for this episode is the Southeast's latest climbing phenom, Armand La Douceur. It was only 18 months ago that Armand first tied into a rope, but he's since taken the climbing scene by storm, putting down many of the areas hardest test-pieces, including Western North Carolina's most iconic 5.13 multipitch, the Glass Menagerie at Looking Glass Rock. The boys dive into his wild introduction to climbing following Groover, a 900 ft 5.8 on Laurel Knob, recent burns on Wet Lycra Nightmare, lessons learned from various mentors that have allowed him to progress so quickly, and what lies ahead. 

Few endurance challenges rival the infamous Yosemite Triple Crown — a mega link-up of three iconic big walls in Yosemite National Park: the Nose on El Capitan, the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome, and the South Face of Mount Watkins.

Since its first completion in 2001, no women had managed to complete the feat...

That is, until Kate Kelleghan and Laura Pineau showed up.

With impressive climbing résumés built in very different corners of the sport, Laura and Kate connected via a simple Instagram DM — both with their sights set on the Triple Crown.

In this episode of The Ground Up Podcast, we dive deep into the world of big wall speed climbing and the story behind Laura and Kate’s historic ascent. We begin in Boulder, Colorado, where the pair completed a brief training stint — including setting a new all-female fastest known time on the Naked Edge, a notoriously tricky route in Eldorado Canyon. Then we head to Yosemite Valley, as they walk us through their preparation, strategy, and the push that made them the first women to complete the Yosemite Triple Crown — in a blazing 23 hours and 36 minutes.

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The Yosemite Triple Crown

The Nose of El Capitan

The Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome

The South Face of Mount Watkins

The Naked Edge - Edorado Canyon

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Follow Kate on Instagram: @katekelleghan

Follow Laura on Instagram: @laurapineau

Read more about this historic ascent: https://uk.coros.com/stories/more-than-splits/c/yosemite-triple-crown-laura-pineau-kate-kelleghan 

Read more about the new fastest female ascent of the Naked Edge: https://coros.com/stories/more-than-splits/c/naked-edge-womens-speed-record-kate-kelleghan-laura-pineau 

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Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

Check out our new website: https://www.thegrounduppodcast.com/

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In today's episode, we sit down with legendary climber, author, and coach Eric Hörst—an East Coast pioneer whose nearly five decades of climbing and route development have left an indelible mark on American climbing culture. Eric takes us back to the 1970s Gunks scene, where he cut his teeth on steep trad climbs before importing sport climbing ethics to the New River Gorge, helping transform it into the world-class crag it is today.

We rewind the tape back to the ‘golden age’ of development at the New, where Eric, alongside notable first ascensionists, Rick Thompson, Doug Reed, Porter Jarrard, Eddie Begoon, Mike Artz, and several others started establishing the first sport routes on the blank walls of the NRG. Eric takes us through his pivotal first ascents like Diamond Life, the friendly competition that occurred during the 80s and 90s, and what drove him to drive 800-miles round trip weekend after weekend to hungry for that next first ascent. Lastly, Eric reflects on balancing family, career, and high-end climbing, shares why he eventually ‘switched allegiance’ to the Red River Gorge, and explains how his mindset—and the sport itself—has evolved over forty-plus years of routes, bolts, and hard-earned lessons.

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The first 5.13 at the New River Gorge: Diamond Life 

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Follow Eric on Instagram: @eric_horst

Get the best training resources available at https://trainingforclimbing.com/ 

Check out Training For Climbing on Instagram: @training4climbing

Level up you climbing with PhysiVāntage Nutrition

Check out PhysiVantage on Instagram: @physivantage

Use checkout code "Save10" to get 10% off your first order!

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Making history in Yosemite Valley is no easy feat these days, especially if you can count the number of years you've been climbing on one hand. But on May 15th, at just 20 years old, Ethan Morf became the youngest person to free climb El Capitan in a day with an 18 hour ascent of Freerider.

In this episode, Ethan recounts his rapid rise from Squamish gumby to Yosemite crusher — a journey fueled by a seemingly endless supply of psyche, long days on granite, and countless hours on the MoonBoard. We talk about learning to climb and place gear via Youtube, his early trad leads (and ground falls), dealing with injuries, and ultimately sending one of the most iconic free routes in the world. This is a story of momentum, partnership, and learning to dig deep when it matters most.

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Follow Ethan on Instagram: @EthanMorf

Watch Ethan's YouTube videos: @ETHANmorf

Check out Ethan's climbing photography and videography: https://www.ethanmorfphoto.com/

Read more about his free ascent of El Capitan: https://www.climbing.com/culture/ethan-morf-youngest-climber-free-el-capitan-in-a-day

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Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

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In this episode, we sit down with Southeast legend Eddie Begoon—lifelong climber, route developer, and storyteller with deep roots in the Shenandoah Valley and the golden age of Southeast climbing. From barnyard bouldering on a Virginia dairy farm to bold first ascents at Seneca Rocks, Looking Glass, and the New River Gorge, Eddie shares the story of a climbing life shaped by humble beginnings, a bare-bones rack of gear, and the power of partnership. Along the way, we hear about country store belays, legendary leads, and the friendships that defined a generation of ground-up development.

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Follow Eddie on Instagram: @eddie.begoon

Read more about the first ascent of Sea of Brows: https://carolinaclimbingmuseum.org/tales/2018/12/3/the-first-ascent-of-sea-of-brows

Eddie and Chris Caldwell (CC) on Sea of Brows: https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/107650043/cc-starting-out-on-the-sea-of-brows-by-the-waste-side-2nd-pitch-with-eddie-begoo 

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Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

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What happens when an arborist and a dog walker swipe right and end up traveling the world on a shoestring budget? In this episode, Nettie and Dave, better known as the Climbing Backpackers, share their incredible journey climbing and dirtbagging across the globe. Hear how a ruptured Achilles and a spur-of-the-moment decision sparked two years of non-stop adventure, what it’s like living on £10 a day, and the wild experiences that come with climbing in places like India, Thailand, Laos, Turkey and beyond. From top-rope guiding in Badami to navigating crumbling crags and tuk-tuk rides, this conversation is full of stories, laughs, and insights into the nomadic climbing lifestyle most of us only ever dream about.

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Follow along on Instagram: @Climbing_Backpackers

Check out their adventures on YouTube: @TheClimbingBackpackers

Learn more about the Climbing Backpackers and their "Climb & Chill Weekends": https://www.climbingbackpackers.com/ 

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Climbing Destinations Covered in the Episodes

Badami, India

Batu caves, Malaysia

North wall, Thailand

Perlis, Malaysia

Thakhek, Laos

Huu Lung, Vietnam

Geyikbayiri, Turkey

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Fresh off a record-breaking run at 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell, Nadya and Sean sit down with Ari and Rob to share how they approached the legendary 24-hour climbing marathon. From Sean’s disastrous first year of Oreos, Gatorade, and brand-new shoes to the meticulous (and sometimes improvised) strategy that helped Nadya smash the women’s points record, we dig into what works, what doesn’t, and why the right partner makes or breaks your experience. They also talk about the upcoming rule changes for the 20th anniversary of “Hell,” what excites them about a clean slate, and how community and stoke fuel their endurance.

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Follow Nadya on Instagram: @nadyavorotnikova

Follow Sean on Instagram: @seanvallefuoco

Follow along with all the Horseshoe Hell Fun: @therealtwofourhell

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Interested in signing up for the event?! Check out more details at https://www.twofourhell.com/ 

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Most would call climbing for 24 hours straight crazy — doing it 20 years in a row is downright ludicrous. In the nearly two-decade history of 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell, only one team has competed every single year: Dick and Natalie Dower, better known as Leather and Lace. Over time, they’ve become true legends of the 24-hour climbing scene at Horseshoe Canyon Ranch.

In part one of this year’s Horseshoe Hell miniseries, we sit down with Dick and Natalie to trace the history of the event. From hand-written scorecards and early strategy missteps to record-breaking ascents and the evolution of the competition itself, they’ve been through it all. We cover what it was like in the early years, the tactics and grit it takes to keep climbing route after route, and their historic pushes that inspired new generations of climbers.

With the 20th anniversary on the horizon, Dick and Natalie reflect on how far Horseshoe Hell has come — and what still keeps them coming back.

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Follow Dick on Instagram: @dickdower

Follow Natalie on Instagram: @nadneal

Follow along with all the Horseshoe Hell Fun: @therealtwofourhell

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Interested in signing up for the event?! Check out more details at https://www.twofourhell.com/ 

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In this episode, we sit down with Tal Wanish to talk about what it really means to build a climbing area from the ground up.

Tal walks us through his evolution from a college climbing class at Clemson to becoming one of the most active route developers in Colorado’s South Platte, and eventually discovering what is now known as Wonderland—a massive, wild granite zone west of Denver that has grown into a true local playground. With over two dozen named formations and hundreds of routes, Wonderland is a case study in what happens when curiosity, persistence, and community-minded development collide.

We dig into Tal’s philosophy on developing areas rather than individual routes, how he evaluates new rock, and the technical and ethical considerations that come with bolting, re-bolting, and building something that will last beyond his lifetime. Tal also shares how mentorship shaped his path, and how he’s paying it forward by helping guide the next generation of route developers.

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Follow Tal on Instagram: @totalwanish

Get a copy of the Wonderland Guidebook today!

Pick up a local copy of the guide at Rock & Resole

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We’re back!

After a short hiatus, we're kicking things off with a State of the Union for The Ground Up Podcast. In this episode, we catch up on what’s been happening behind the scenes—from moves and life changes to why it felt like the right time to pause, reset, and level up the show.

We also lay out what’s coming next: a return to a consistent bi-weekly release schedule, a stacked lineup of upcoming guests, and new ways to engage with the Ground Up community. Most importantly, we officially announce the launch of the Ground Up Patreon—a new way to support the show while keeping it largely ad-free.

Patreon members will get early access to episodes, opportunities to submit questions for guests, and access to giveaways, merch drops, and more. If you’ve been enjoying the show and want to help shape where it goes next, this is how you can be part of it.

Welcome back to The Ground Up.

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Fresh off the world premiere of Queen Swing, return guest Laura Pineau is back on the podcast—this time stepping away from the Yosemite speed climbing stories to dive deeper into the experiences and climbing that shaped her.

We talk about Laura’s unconventional introduction to climbing through deep water soloing along the sea cliffs of southern France, how those early days falling into the Mediterranean built both her love for climbing and her tolerance for exposure, and the path that eventually led her toward trad and crack climbing. Laura shares the steep learning curve of transitioning from limestone sport climbing to granite big walls, the mentorship and partnerships that accelerated her progression, and how she became obsessed with the craft of crack climbing.

We also dive into her groundbreaking ascent of Wet Lycra Nightmare (13d) on Leaning Tower in Yosemite, becoming the first woman to free climb the route, and the mental and physical process behind taking on one of the Valley’s most intimidating testpieces.

Beyond Yosemite, Laura talks about her recent adventure with Elsa Ponzo to climb the “100 Most Beautiful Multi-Pitches” in the South of France in just 50 days—a massive endurance project filled with long days, logistics, partnership dynamics, and some of the best (and worst) rock in Europe.

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Follow the Laura on Instagram: @laurapineau

Check out Laura's YouTube Channel: @Laura-Pineau

Read the Planet Mountain's article on Laura's FFA of Wet Lycra Nightmare

See the breakdown of the 100 multipitch routes in Provence on Planet Mountain

Get the latest information of tour dates for the Queen Swing, part of the Mountains on Stage film tour

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Additional Links

100 Most Beautiful Multipitches Guidebook - Camp to Camp

Deepwater Soloing Une araignée au plafond

Mello Blocco Bouldering Festival

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Get access to exclusive and ad-free content by becoming a Patreon 

Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

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We're switching things up a bit this week with our first ever listener questions driven episode!

Instead of our usual format interviewing guests, it’s just us this time—riffing on climbing films, hot topics, and however many listener submitted questions we can get through. We start by getting into some recent films we’ve been watching (and working on), swap thoughts on storytelling in climbing media, and dive into a pretty deep debate on grading—what it means, where it falls short, and what a “perfect” system might actually look like.

We also tackle a few listener-submitted questions, ranging from thoughtful to slightly ridiculous, and let the conversation wander into everything from ethics to personal preferences on the rock.

This is a more off-the-cuff, unfiltered side of the podcast—and a bit of an experiment. Let us know what you think and if you like it, we’ll keep them coming more often.

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Check out all the films we mentioned:

Dias de la Gloria

Queen Swing

IAN

Learn more about the SAR on the Naked Edge

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Today’s guest is none other than mental‑training expert and longtime first‑ascensionist Arno Ilgner. While most climbers know Arno for The Rock Warrior’s Way—his influential book and program on focus, risk, and commitment—his 50‑year climbing career is just as compelling, and ultimately what led him into the world of mental training.

In today's episode, we cover Arno's introduction to climbing in the in the limestone bluffs of Tennessee, climbing with a rack of pitons & hip belays. From there, he went on to establish bold first ascents across the country, including major contributions in Fremont Canyon and the intimidating headwall of Whitesides in North Carolina—routes that remain test pieces even today.

We then dive into how his climbing sparked a deeper curiosity about the mind—specifically why he felt more comfortable on runout 5.12 trad than on a perfectly safe 5.13 sport route. That question became the foundation for The Rock Warrior’s Way. We explore some of the core techniques behind his program, how climbers can work with fear of falling or fear of failure, and what it means to climb with more presence and self‑awareness.

Finally, Arno talks about the next evolution of The Warrior’s Way as he transitions the program into a broader, non‑climbing context, helping people apply the same tools of awareness, courage, and intentional action to the rest of their lives.

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Follow the Arno on Instagram: @rockwarriorsway

Arno is also on Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube

Learn more about the Warrior's Way mental training program by visiting their website.

Check out the Warrior's Way Retreats, Personalized Coaching, or sign-up for their email list to stay up to date with the latest news!

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Wilson Cutbirth is an expedition climber at heart—driven by ground-up style, remote objectives, and first ascents on some of the wildest big walls out there. With a deep background in rigging and rope systems, his approach blends technical precision with a willingness to embrace uncertainty in truly committing terrain.

In this episode, we trace Wilson’s unconventional path into climbing—from sharing a single pair of shoes with friends in rural Arizona to putting up bold first ascents on remote big walls across the world, including an expedition to Mount Roraima with Leo Houlding. Along the way, we dive into his early days as a highliner, the transition into climbing, and what drives him to go ground up on some of the worlds biggest cliffs.

We also get into some full-value epics: his attempts to set the FKT of the Cirque Tower Traverse, getting absolutely wrecked in a storm on the side of El Cap after taking questionable beta, and a brutally heavy first expedition into Wyoming’s Wind River Range—complete with 100+ pound packs, a massive hail storm, and a whole lot of learning the hard way.

This one’s all about progression through experience, embracing the sufferfest, and chasing big objectives in wild places.

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Follow the Wislon on Instagram: @wilstone8

Check out Wilson's FKT breakdown for the Cirque Tower Traverse!

See the film of Wilson and Leo's ascent of Mount Roraima's northern prow.

Check out Wilson's rigging company Gravity Line

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In this episode, we sit down with West Virginia climber and prolific developer Andrew Leich to trace a climbing journey shaped by obsession, grit, and an almost unthinkable comeback.

From his early days at the New River Gorge to developing out of necessity in the Cheat Canyon, Andrew built his reputation on bold ascents—including an onsight* of Moonlight Buttress. Along the way, he also shares the surprisingly simple, yet effective, fingerboard routine that helped him build elite endurance.

But everything changed after a near-fatal rattlesnake bite left Andrew with severe nerve damage, forcing him to start over from square one. What followed was a long, uncertain road back, redefining his relationship with climbing and progressing his way back through the grades. That journey ultimately comes full circle with his recent ascent of Green Magic in the Hills (5.14b), a route he bolted years earlier but never sent—until now.

We also dive into Andrew’s deep impact on the Cheat Canyon, where he’s developed hundreds of boulders and authored a guidebook that’s helped put the area on the map.

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Follow the Andrew on Instagram: @andrew_leich

Get a copy of the Cheat Canyon Guidebook!

Check out Climbing Magazine's recent article featuring Andrew's comeback!

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For decades, Ghost Town stood as one of North Carolina’s most legendary—and inaccessible—cliffs. First climbed in the 1970s and closed for nearly 20 years, its towering crack systems and dramatic position above Hickory Nut Gorge became the stuff of local lore.

In this episode, we sit down with the Carolina Climbers Coalition Executive Director, Mike Reardon, to unpack the long journey to bring Ghost Town back to life. Mike shares the behind-the-scenes story of land access, conservation, and the effort to reopen this historic crag to the climbing community.

We explore Ghost Town’s rich history, its untapped potential, and what it means to be part of a climbing area’s rebirth—from forgotten first ascents to brand new routes waiting to be discovered.

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Follow the CCC on Instagram: @carolinaclimberscoalition

Join the Effort - Donate to help ensure Lower Ghost Town stays open. All donations $150 or more will receive an exclusive Ghost Town T-Shirt!

Become a member of the CCC to support access to climbing areas all around the Carolinas like Ghost Town! 

Stay up to date with the latest trail days for Ghost Town!

Sign up for the Rumble, a premier boulder and ropes competition put on by the CCC

Learn more about the CCC's recent acquisition of Ghost Town!

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In this episode, we sit down with Kathy Karlo to trace an unconventional climbing trajectory—one that started on ice in Ouray and the steep quartzite horizontals of the Gunks, but has led to a life filled with endless single-pitch perfection on the Sandstone of the Southeast.

Kathy reflects on how traveling to places like Indian Creek, the Black Canyon, and Vedauwoo pushed her into uncomfortable styles that made her a stronger, more creative climber—and why, despite all that wandering, she’s continually drawn back to the Southeast to pursue some of the most aesthetic trad lines around. We also dive into two of her biggest accomplishments: becoming the first woman to complete the Tennessee Wall Triple Crown—three 5.12 roof cracks outside Chattanooga—and the Linville Destroyer, a massive link-up that adds six formations and a committing river crossing to the already formidable Linville Crusher in Linville Gorge.

Beyond her personal climbing, Kathy serves as the Executive Director of the No Man’s Land Film Festival, where she helps amplify women and gender-nonconforming voices in adventure storytelling while building one of the most impactful film tours in the outdoor community.

This episode is about choosing the harder path on purpose, learning to rest when needed, and building a life around climbing—without letting it consume you entirely.

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Follow Kathy on Instagram: @inheadlights

Get more details about the No Man's Land Film Festival at their website!

Follow No Man's Land Film Festival on Instagram: @nomanslandfilmfestival

Watch the Stone Locals film featuring Kathy's FFA of the Tennessee Triple Crown

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David Sharratt is one of the East Coast's great underground crushers. From bold headpoints at Moon Rocks, pushing the boundaries of free climbing at Looking Glass, to the legendary Good, Bad, and Ugly at Ghost Town, David has spent decades establishing and repeating some of North Carolina and the Southeast's hardest and most serious routes.

In this episode, we talk about the aesthetic pull of lines that seem barely possible—routes with just enough holds, just enough gear, and just enough mystery to demand attention. David shares how hard sport climbing and bold trad became the foundation for free climbing and first ascents around the world, leading to expeditions in Peru, Patagonia, China, Malaysia's Dragon's Horn, and the Indian Himalaya.

This conversation is a deep dive into bold climbing, expedition objectives, aesthetic obsession, and a lifetime spent chasing the kinds of routes that leave a lasting mark long after the ascent is over.

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Follow the David on Instagram: @davidosharratt

Check out Laura's Vimeo Channel

Read about David's expedition to the Indian Himalaya

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