Explore every episode of the podcast The Experience Edge

Most CX teams report satisfaction scores. If yours disappeared on Monday, whose week would actually break? That answer decides whether it survives AI.

Rania Brand ran global CX and service design at Kimberly-Clark, where customer experience sits inside the operating model rather than beside it. In this conversation she argues that AI changes almost nothing about the CX equation — it only raises the cost of weak foundations — and explains why the teams that come through it will be the ones already load bearing somewhere else in the business. Along the way: why NPS only tells you a fire started, which KPIs are "in the now", and what enterprises should be copying from government digital services.

ABOUT RANIA

Rania Brand  is a senior product & experience leader, who was Associate Director of Global CX and Service Design, and Global Product Manager, at Kimberly-Clark. Before Kimberly-Clark she spent fifteen years at IBM, including four and a half years working in government, which she describes as the clearest example she has seen of experience operationalised as institutional capability rather than run as a programme. Her work centres on connecting customer experience to the KPIs a business already reports — revenue leakage, cycle time, inefficiency — instead of leaving CX to defend itself with satisfaction scores. She publishes on Medium and LinkedIn.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• AI is another actor in the blueprint, not a new equation — the foundations question is unchanged.

• NPS and CSAT tell you a fire started; they never tell you which room.

• If your CX team vanished and nobody's Monday broke, it was an initiative, not a function.

• CX survives by being load bearing inside supply chain, pricing and finance, not beside them.

• Solve deeply in one market, then export the design principles rather than the solution.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

00:30 Why AI doesn't change the CX equation

02:52 NPS tells you there's a fire, not which room 06:35 The shadow IT risk in democratised AI

11:15 Why CX teams resist AI out of fear

12:30 Load bearing CX versus CX as a department

16:48 The Monday morning litmus test

19:52 What enterprises can learn from government digital services

30:39 Why data foundations don't change how people work

35:38 Incentives versus more systems thinkers

40:16 The KPIs that are in the now

43:26 Getting analysts and CX teams in the same room

46:06 Sponsorship, agency and regional execution

50:53 Solve in one market, scale with design principles

54:25 Why change and adoption decides whether it sticks

LINKEDIN

🎙️ Guest: Rania Brand — https://www.linkedin.com/in/raniabrand/

🎙️ Host: Jochem van der Veer — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

THEYDO

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Subscribe to The Experience Edge for weekly conversations on customer experience, journey management, and the future of enterprise CX. Share this episode with someone who's thinking about how their organisation connects customer insight to real decisions.

#TheExperienceEdge #RaniaBrand #ServiceDesign #OperatingModel #AI #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

Speed without craft creates undifferentiated products. The real cost of AI acceleration in financial services is the slow erosion of what makes experiences worth building.

Julia Challicom leads Customer Strategy and Design for financial services at Deloitte Digital UK, helping tier-one banks and insurers transform the way customer insight shapes business decisions. In this conversation, she and Jochem dig into the tension between top-down pressure to go faster and the ground-level reality of data fragmentation, misaligned teams, and journey ownership that no one has truly solved - and why blindly replacing craft with AI tooling is a bet that will cost organisations more than they expect.

About Julia

Julia Challicom is Customer Strategy and Design Lead for Financial Services at Deloitte Digital UK. She works with large-scale tier-one banks, insurers, and wealth management firms to transform customer experience and design customer-led services, with a particular focus on journey management, AI integration, and translating customer insights into business outcomes. She is a vocal champion of responsible and inclusive design, and is deeply concerned about the erosion of craft skills as organisations rush to automate. Her perspective is shaped by years working inside some of the UK's most complex financial institutions, giving her a practitioner's view of how transformation actually unfolds - and where it quietly stalls.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Organisations racing to go faster with AI are building the wrong things faster - alignment to customer journeys is the missing fix.

• Data access, data quality, and data architecture are all broken at once; no client is immune.

• Journey ownership fails when it's given to someone too junior, or a senior person with no freed-up capacity.

• Replacing craft with AI tools doesn't improve output quality - it just removes the people who caught the problems.

• Tokenomics is the next CFO conversation: agentic systems cost far more than the teams they were supposed to replace.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

01:47 Where the pressure to go faster actually breaks in enterprise CX

03:39 Why faster development without journey alignment produces more of the wrong things

04:34 The data problem: access, quality, architecture - and the cottage industries they create

08:11 Top-down strategy vs. ground-level AI sprawl: how to get a meaningful start

11:49 Why journey-centric working matters more than ever in financial services

18:22 The movement toward journey centricity: Lloyds, fintechs, and the ripple effect

20:41 Leading indicators of transformation: what to measure before satisfaction scores move

22:21 PI planning and the disconnect between discovery work and what actually gets prioritised

27:08 Journey ownership models: what works, what fails, and where it's still maturing

33:42 Journeys as a data model: the AI opportunity hiding in connected customer context

35:47 How the consultant's role is changing - and the slow erosion of craft that worries Julia most

43:00 KYC, agents, and the real ROI calculation of automating regulated journeys

48:02 Conversational journeys, AI search, and why the fundamental questions haven't changed

57:45 Tokens vs. time: how CFOs are starting to scrutinise the true cost of AI initiatives

01:04:30 Where to find Julia and the Deloitte–TheyDo alliance

LINKEDIN PROFILES

Guest: Julia Challicom - https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-challicom/Host: Jochem van der Veer - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

THEYDO

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Subscribe to The Experience Edge for weekly conversations on customer experience, journey management, and the future of enterprise CX. Share this episode with someone who's thinking about how their organisation connects customer insight to real decisions.

#TheExperienceEdge #Challicom #FinancialServices #AITransformation #DesignCraft #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

Every CX leader can point to their data. Almost none can trace how it actually becomes a business decision.

Jochem van der Veer breaks down the four-stage customer experience data lifecycle — signals, context, intelligence, and impact — that determines whether experience data ever turns into a measurable business outcome. He unpacks why behavioral data (clickstream, session recordings, product telemetry) is consistently undervalued compared to surveys, why most enterprises over-invest in signal collection while under-investing in the hardest, least glamorous stage — building a shared context layer, or customer experience ontology, that both humans and AI can reason over. Along the way he covers taxonomy and journey mapping as change management challenges (not just data problems), the three-layer ownership model for context governance, opportunity scoring and journey health as concrete intelligence outputs, and how to build the business case for CX investment using speed-to-resolution and cost-of-inaction metrics rather than abstract insight-to-impact claims. 

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• What customers say and what they do are correlated, but rarely the same signal.

• Survey response bias means you mostly hear from the angriest and happiest 5%.

• A shared taxonomy is a change management problem before it's a data problem.

• Context has three owner layers: source owners, curators, and governance.

• Cost of inaction on ignored recommendations is often the most persuasive metric.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction — where does experience data actually go?

02:30 Stage one: signals and the behavioral data gap

05:00 Why surveys are overweighted and underinform

08:00 Stage two: context and building a shared ontology

10:00 The KYC example — recurring patterns across journeys

11:30 Why agreeing on taxonomy is an organisational problem

13:30 The AI magnification problem: siloed data, siloed meaning 15:00 The three ownership layers of a context model

19:00 Binding: turning ontology into a working system

20:00 Stage three: intelligence — descriptive vs. analytical outputs

21:30 Opportunity scoring and prioritising across journeys

22:30 Journey health and the Nordics manufacturing example

26:00 Stage four: impact and why it's also a feedback loop

30:30 The full model recap and where enterprises actually start

32:00 Making the case: speed and cost of inaction

FOLLOW JOCHEM

Jochem van der Veer — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

THEYDO

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Subscribe to The Experience Edge for weekly conversations on customer experience, journey management, and the future of enterprise CX. Share this episode with someone who's thinking about how their organisation connects customer insight to real decisions.

#TheExperienceEdge #JochemVanDerVeer #DataLifecycle #Ontology #JourneyHealth #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

Service design promised to connect the dots. So why are service designers inside the same company still not talking to each other?

Khayyam "Kai" Lasi is Journey Management Program Lead at Autodesk, where he's spent years scaling journey management from a lone title on an org chart to a company-wide operating system. In this conversation, he and Jochem get into why service design siloes itself from within, what it actually means to move from journey mapping to journey architecture, why "ownership" is the wrong mental model for CX practitioners, and how AI can reduce the internal politics that keeps teams from doing their best work.

ABOUT KAI

Khayyam "Kai" Lasi is Journey Management Program Lead at Autodesk. His career path has been far from linear - he moved from actuarial science into customer experience after discovering a stronger passion for people and solving complex problems, going on to build deep expertise in customer support, CX leadership, and journey management across Toronto startups, Scotiabank, and Autodesk. Over the past three and a half years at Autodesk, he's been foundational in scaling a journey management practice that now spans multiple teams and has influenced how the organisation hires and structures CX work. He's best known for combining analytical rigour with a systems-level view of customer experience - and for being unafraid to call out where the service design field is failing itself.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

➝ Service design siloes aren't just an org problem - they're a people problem that no tool or framework will fix.

➝ Journey management is the operating system that keeps service design from becoming the wild west.

➝ "Shepherd" beats "owner" - you can't shepherd a journey without building a flock of contributors.

➝ Insight grain size matters: product managers don't want "onboarding is bad," they want capability-level specifics.

➝ AI can create good baselines and remove language barriers between roles - but humans still have to come together.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

02:07 Why service designers inside the same company don't talk to each other

05:12 How organisational siloes corrupt the service design practice within them

06:39 Journey management as the operating system for service design

09:33 How Autodesk moved from a design-mature company to a journey management culture

13:06 Building a journey architecture: heat-mapping, lifecycle data, and shared understanding

19:49 From mapping stage to management stage - what comes next

22:00 The community of practice gap and why standards need to be agreed, not assumed

26:12 Lessons from agile: the danger of standardising flexibility out of a practice

27:55 "Search before you create" - a standard worth fighting for

34:48 How AI enables governance, reduces duplication, and removes language barriers between teams

40:58 Organisational memory and the decision map concept

49:29 Shepherding vs ownership - why vocabulary shapes culture

55:02 How to reconcile journey thinking with team structures in complex organisations

01:03:14 The one agent worth building next: internal context + accountability mapping

01:07:42 How to reach Kai and closing thoughts

LINKEDIN PROFILES

Khayyam Lasi - https://www.linkedin.com/in/khayyam-lasi/Jochem van der Veer - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

THEYDO

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Subscribe to The Experience Edge for weekly conversations on customer experience, journey management, and the future of enterprise CX. Share this episode with someone who's thinking about how their organisation connects customer insight to real decisions.

#TheExperienceEdge #Lasi #JourneyArchitecture #ServiceDesign #OrganisationalMemory #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

Half of CX teams are still just running surveys. The other half stopped reporting and started operating.

Bill Staikos spent two decades in customer experience leadership at companies like American Express, BNY Mellon, and JPMorgan, and now writes the newsletter AI Not KPI. In this conversation, he explains why CX is splitting into a "bottom 50%" still stuck in survey-and-dashboard mode and a "top 50%" rebuilding around AI, data architecture, and operating models - and argues the role's most important relationship is shifting from the CFO to the CIO.KEY

TAKEAWAYS

- Half of CX teams still only run surveys- the rest have moved to an operating model.

- When CX and the Chief Product Officer have "no daylight" between them, transformation accelerates.

- The closed-loop model needs two new loops: orchestration (AI acting in real time) and learning (feedback improving the system).

- CX leaders need data literacy and curiosity about tools like semantic layers and MCP, not just survey skills.

- Start with the biggest business pain point, not the biggest customer pain point — the experience issue usually surfaces there anyway.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

03:09 Why half of CX teams are stuck doing surveys

05:48 The CX–CPO relationship as the biggest marker of change

07:11 How insight teams are getting into product planning cycles

11:02 What the top 5% of CX leaders do differently

13:16 Should a survey-background CX leader be a red flag?

15:45 Business acumen vs. data vocabulary — CX needs both

17:32 Rethinking Bain's closed-loop model: adding orchestration and learning loops

22:01 Should these loops be intentionally governed or left emergent?

24:45 Hijacking existing rituals like PI planning to drive CX decisions

26:59 A real example: redesigning how teams are measured beyond output

29:52 From raw data to signal, context, intelligence, and impact

33:04 Is CX at a crossroads about its own purpose?

35:05 Why the most important CX relationship is now with the CIO, not the CFO

39:09 Where to start building an internal customer context layer

43:34 Why incentives and change leadership determine whether any of this works

45:30 Inside Bill's newsletter: turning frameworks into usable artifacts

LINKEDIN

Guest: Bill Staikos — https://www.linkedin.com/in/billstaikos/

Host: Jochem van der Veer — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

THEYDO

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com#TheExperienceEdge #Staikos

#AIinCX #DataArchitecture #ClosedLoopFeedback #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

Your AI agents aren't failing because the models are bad. They're failing because your data was built for humans, not machines. 

Jochem has spent years working on the structural problem underneath failing enterprise AI initiatives. In this episode, he breaks down why CX AI pilots stall after six to eight weeks, what an experience ontology actually is and how it differs from a taxonomy or tag list, and why the architectural decision of where your ontology lives - data layer versus AI layer - determines whether your AI investment compounds or drifts. 

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• AI pilots fail because the data environment was designed for human interpretation, not machine reasoning.

• Tagging the same word across systems is co-location, not integration — AI can't bridge that gap reliably.

• An ontology defines not just what things are, but how they relate and what an agent can do with them.

• Location primitives (journey, phase, step) give disparate data a shared address so it can finally connect.

• The architectural choice of where the ontology lives — data layer vs. tool layer — determines whether it scales or drifts.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction — Why AI pilots hit a wall after six to eight weeks

01:45 The three lenses enterprises use to understand customers

03:10 Why co-location isn't integration and what breaks when humans leave the loop

04:47 The core problem: confident AI output with no traceable foundation

06:20 What an ontology actually is — and how it differs from a taxonomy

08:00 Location primitives: journey, phase, and step as shared address

09:30 Connecting VOC evidence and BI metrics to the same structural coordinate

10:30 Pattern primitives: spotting recurring opportunities across journeys

12:00 The KYC banking example — one named object, many product teams

13:30 The third job of an ontology: structural rules for what agents can do

15:00 Why data binding is where most CX data efforts actually break down

16:30 How a working ontology creates a self-reinforcing context layer

17:54 The critical architectural decision: data layer vs. AI layer

19:30 Why CIOs and CX leaders need to make this call together

21:00 Bringing it back: the real fix isn't a better model, it's a better foundation

22:00 How TheyDo is built as the data layer AI agents run on

LINKEDIN

Jochem van der Veer — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

THEYDO

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Subscribe to The Experience Edge for weekly conversations on customer experience, journey management, and the future of enterprise CX. Share this episode with someone who's thinking about how their organisation connects customer insight to real decisions.

#TheExperienceEdge #vanderVeer #ExperienceOntology #CXAI #EnterpriseAI #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

Your teams are drowning in customer data but can't act on it. Here's a 5-level framework that makes the customer journey your operating system.

IN THIS EPISODE

• Why another dashboard won't fix your customer data problem

• How to connect what customers say with what they actually do

• Why the customer journey — not your org chart — should organize your data

• How a "meaning layer" creates cross-team alignment without reorganizing teams

• How journey-structured data becomes an ontology that AI and agents can reason over

CHAPTERS

00:00 The real problem: a data organizing problem, not a data problem 

02:19 The five layers, and why the journey is the organizing principle 

02:19 Level 1 — Evidence: the qualitative voice of the customer 

04:46 Level 2 — Measurement: KPIs and what customers actually do 

06:00 The journey as the backbone that joins the dots 

07:15 Pinning every signal and KPI to a moment in the experience 

08:00 Level 3 — Meaning: surfacing the "why" (the Lufthansa baggage example)

09:38 Level 4 — Cross-team connection and natural alignment 

11:58 Level 5 — Business impact and competitive advantage 

14:03 Putting it together: the journey as your operating system

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

CONNECT WITH US:

Website:    https://www.theydo.com/

LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/company/theydo-journey-management/

#CustomerExperience #CustomerJourney #JourneyManagement #CXStrategy #DataStrategy #VoiceOfCustomer #CustomerData #CXOps #AIagents #ProductStrategy

Your CX pitch lands with practitioners but dies with CEOs. Here's the messaging framework that fixes it. 

IN THIS EPISODE

• Why CX leaders keep pitching the wrong message to the wrong room — and how to diagnose it

• How to talk to a CEO or COO about customer experience without mentioning customer experience

• What product leaders actually need to hear before they'll prioritise CX on the roadmap

• When to lead with technology — and why it's only right for one specific audience

• The two most common messaging mistakes CX teams make and how to avoid them

CHAPTERS

00:00 Intro — Why CX storytelling breaks down 

01:04 The real-world example: energy company, call volume, cost mandate 

02:10 Three audience buckets: Out-of-CX, CX-adjacent, CX expert 

03:29 How to pitch the out-of-CX crowd (CEOs, COOs) 

05:00 How to pitch the middle layer (product, marketing, brand) 

08:08 How to pitch CX practitioners — and when to lead with technology 

09:49 The full messaging stack: outcomes, use case, technology 

10:30 Two mistakes to avoid: stacking arguments and mixing audiences 

12:12 Key takeaways — same work, three different messages

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

CONNECT WITH US:Website:    https://www.theydo.com/

LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/company/theydo-journey-management/

#TheExperienceEdge #CustomerExperience #CXStrategy #CXLeadership #CustomerJourney #JourneyManagement #CXMessaging #CostToServe #VoiceOfCustomer #CustomerInsights

Is empathy a staffing choice or a design decision?

We often assume that emotionally charged moments demand a human touch. This episode challenges that instinct. In a world where AI is always available, always calm, and increasingly capable, the real question isn’t human versus machine - it’s whether we’ve misunderstood what empathy actually requires in the first place.

In this video:

• Why empathy is not inherently human, but contextual

• How rigid automation creates frustration in high-need moments

• When AI provides a safer, more effective interaction than people

• What defines a “moment that matters” in customer experience

• How to design support models around need, not channel

• Why defaulting to human vs AI is the wrong framing entirely

If empathy isn’t about who delivers it, but how it’s experienced, what should you be designing for?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CustomerCentricity #DigitalTransformation #AIinCX #ExperienceDesign #OrganizationalDesign #CXStrategy #DesignThinking #CustomerJourneys #DecisionMaking #ProductStrategy #HumanCenteredDesign

Mark Smith and Raymond Gerber, former competitors turned co-founders of the Institute for Journey Management, join Jochem van der Veer to unpack how enterprise CX is evolving in the age of AI. Drawing on decades of experience across Kitewheel and Thunderhead, they explore how journey orchestration is being reshaped by generative AI and organizational transformation.

At the center is a key tension: AI enables scale and personalization, but without journey context and operational alignment, it risks amplifying broken experiences. The conversation reveals why journey context is no longer just a customer-facing construct, but a critical internal capability for aligning decisions, breaking silos, and enabling truly adaptive, value-driven CX.

Guest Bio

Mark Smith is a pioneer in customer analytics and journey orchestration, with over 30 years of experience in predictive modeling and customer engagement. He founded Kitewheel and led it to become a market leader in journey orchestration. His work has consistently focused on aligning data-driven decisioning with business constraints and customer value. He now co-leads the Institute for Journey Management.

Raymond Gerber is a leading voice in journey orchestration and enterprise CX, with multiple patents in the field. As former CEO of Thunderhead, he helped shape the category before its acquisition by Medallia. His expertise spans AI, decisioning systems, and operating model design. He is now focused on advancing journey-centric transformation through the Institute for Journey Management.

Key Takeaways

- Journey context is multi-dimensional, combining temporal, situational, directional, and constraint-based elements that guide both AI decisions and business actions

- Generative AI shifts value from prediction to prescription, enabling continuous, closed-loop learning driven by real-time customer intent

- Internal alignment is the real bottleneck, journey context matters more inside the organization than for customers who simply “live” the experience

- Hyper-personalization evolves from static next-best actions to dynamic, conversational interactions powered by structured and unstructured data fusion

- Journey management must evolve from project-based initiatives to an embedded operating model tied to value exchange between customer and business

Chapters

00:00 Why journey context matters for AI agents and workflows

00:03 Defining customer journey context in enterprise CX

00:08 AI in customer experience and the shift to non-deterministic journeys

00:12 Hyper-personalization and next best action evolution

00:15 Breaking down silos with shared journey context

00:19 Structured vs unstructured data in journey orchestration

00:23 Internal alignment and journey management strategy

00:28 Journey-centric operating model vs project mindset

00:33 Predictive vs prescriptive AI in customer experience

00:38 Enterprise CX transformation and journey-led value management

LinkedIn Profiles

Guests: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mapsmith/https://www.linkedin.com/in/golfergerbs/Jochem van der Veer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/

#EnterpriseCustomerExperience #CustomerJourneyOrchestration #CXTransformationStrategy #CustomerExperienceLeadership #JourneyCentricity #CXOperatingModel #CustomerExperienceInnovation #AIJourneyOrchestration #IntelligentCustomerEngagement #AIPoweredPersonalization #ConversationalAIExperience #AIForCustomerJourneys

Over the past decade, many companies pursued omnichannel by adding touchpoints rather than designing continuity. The result is fragmented data, repeated customer effort, and teams optimizing for channels instead of journeys. In this environment, AI becomes a high-speed engine running on incomplete context. The real shift isn’t about better models, but about building shared, journey-level context — where aligned data, KPIs, and language turn AI from a surface tool into a system-wide capability that reshapes how organizations understand and act on customer reality.

In this episode:

• Why adding AI to fragmented journeys increases cost instead of reducing it

• How “more channels” became the false proxy for omnichannel maturity

• What journey-level context actually means — and why AI depends on it

• When cross-functional KPIs outperform channel optimization

• How shared experience language makes both teams and AI effective

• What it takes to turn AI from a responder into a true context engine

If AI is only as good as the context it operates in, what does your organization actually enable it to understand?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CXStrategy #DigitalTransformation #AIinBusiness #OrganizationalDesign #CustomerJourneys #DataStrategy #ExperienceDesign #BusinessTransformation #CustomerCentricity #OperatingModel #DecisionMaking

Katie Duncan, former CX leader at Warner Bros. Discovery, joins The Experience Edge to unpack what it actually takes to operationalize customer experience inside complex, high-growth media organizations. Drawing from scaling CX across major streaming launches, she brings a grounded view on turning strategy into execution.

The conversation centers on the gap between customer-centric ambition and operational reality. Katie argues that most companies lose customer insight during execution, and that true CX maturity comes from embedding insights into decision-making across the full lifecycle, not just measuring outcomes after the fact.

Guest Bio

Katie Duncan is a customer experience leader with over 15 years of experience driving CX transformation across media and technology organizations. At Warner Bros. Discovery, she built and scaled CX operations supporting major streaming launches including Discovery Plus and Magnolia. Her work spans operational design, customer insights, and cross-functional alignment at scale. She is known for bridging strategy and execution in complex enterprise environments. Katie has led large teams and influenced CX integration across product ecosystems during periods of rapid growth and organizational change.

Key Takeaways

• Customer centricity often exists as cultural language rather than operational reality, breaking down when insights are not embedded into decision-making processes

• CX impact comes from preventing friction early in the journey, not reacting to issues after they surface in metrics

• Treating CX as a reporting function limits influence, while positioning it as a decision partner enables real business impact

• Hidden defects in customer journeys often exist between touchpoints, requiring end-to-end analysis rather than isolated optimization

• AI accelerates insight generation but increases the need for governance, intentional design, and human-led context shaping

Chapters

00:00 The illusion of customer centricity in enterprise CX

03:30 Why customer insights fail to influence decision making

08:00 Strategy misalignment and CX execution gaps

12:30 From seat at the table to owning customer experience decisions

16:00 Customer journey orchestration and decision context

20:30 Moving beyond VOC reports to behavioral insights

25:00 Identifying hidden friction in customer journeys

29:30 Scaling CX impact through early intervention

34:00 Building business acumen in CX teams

38:30 AI in customer experience and shifting roles

43:30 Context shaping and cross-functional alignment

49:00 Governance in enterprise CX transformation

54:00 Designing customer journeys from the start

LinkedIn

Katie Duncan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-g-duncan

Jochem van der Veer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer

Hashtags

#EnterpriseCustomerExperience #CustomerJourneyOrchestration #CXTransformationStrategy #JourneyCentricOperatingModel #BreakingDownSilosInCX #CrossFunctionalAlignmentCX #CustomerExperienceLeadership #OperationalizingCustomerExperience #ExperienceDrivenGrowth #TheyDoPlatform #CustomerExperienceTransformationFramework #EnterpriseCXStrategy

In this Insights episode, Jochem van der Veer challenges the assumption that more data, dashboards, and AI naturally lead to better customer experience decisions. The real issue isn’t visibility - it’s the absence of shared context that gives data meaning.

Most organizations aren’t lacking insights; they’re operating in different versions of reality. Teams interpret the same signals differently and optimize locally, while AI only accelerates this misalignment. Without a shared understanding of where signals live in the customer journey and what they mean, organizations don’t scale intelligence - they scale confusion.

In this video:

• Why more data doesn’t solve misalignment and often makes it worse

• How fragmented context leads to false problems and wasted investment

• What it means to anchor metrics in the customer journey, not departments

• Why AI amplifies structural issues instead of fixing them

• How shared context changes prioritization, decision-making, and strategy

How do you know if your organization is solving real problems or just reacting to disconnected signals?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CXStrategy #OrganizationalDesign #DecisionMaking #CustomerJourney #BusinessTransformation #AIinCX #ExperienceManagement #ProductStrategy #OperationalExcellence #VoiceOfCustomer

Gene Hong, Design Leader at Target and founder of Aperture North, brings over 25 years of experience shaping how brands translate creativity into commercial success. Leading a $770M portfolio, Gene operates at the intersection of design, business strategy, and innovation, with a focus on creating culturally relevant, high-impact consumer experiences.

In this conversation, Gene explores why the future of design lies beyond optimization and into “designing for the moment.” From triangulation and imperfect creativity to the rising importance of judgment in an AI-driven world, he challenges leaders to rethink how experience, business acumen, and creative risk come together to drive meaningful growth.

Takeaways

• Great design leaders balance creative output with intentional input to sustain originality and perspective.

• “Triangulation” - combining insights from different contexts - is key to creating unexpected, differentiated outcomes.

• AI increases the volume of ideas, but judgment, experience, and imperfection remain uniquely human advantages.

• Business acumen is essential for designers to gain influence and move ideas from concept to execution.

• Innovation requires organizational space for risk - often a dedicated structure separate from core operations.

LinkedIn
Gene Hong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/genehong/Jochem van der Veer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvdveer/

In this Insights episode, Jochem van der Veer challenges the common belief that improving customer experience requires more data, dashboards, and AI, revealing instead how a lack of shared context across teams leads to misaligned decisions. While organizations optimize performance using advanced analytics and AI-driven insights, they often operate on different versions of reality, creating fragmented customer journeys and inconsistent outcomes. As AI accelerates decision-making at scale, this misalignment becomes a critical risk, making shared context-not more data-the true foundation for effective customer experience strategy.

In this video:

• Why fragmented context-not lack of data-is the real bottleneck in CX
• How teams create “local truths” that distort decision-making
• What AI actually does when your underlying structure is misaligned
• Why defining where signals live in the journey changes everything
• How shared context turns metrics into meaningful, connected insight
• When optimization becomes dangerous because the problem isn’t real

If every team is right-but the outcome is wrong-what reality is your organization actually operating in?

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#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CXStrategy #OrganizationalDesign #DecisionMaking #AIinBusiness #CustomerInsights #BusinessTransformation #ProductStrategy #ExperienceManagement #DataStrategy #Leadership #DigitalTransformation

Ashana Singhania, VP Product Management at Goldman Sachs and former product leader at American Express, operates at the intersection of product, trust, and regulation. Having led zero-to-one launches and large-scale platform consolidations across payments, lending, and digital banking, she brings a clear-eyed view of building customer experience inside highly regulated financial institutions.

In this episode, Ashana introduces the concept of “experience debt” - the invisible friction that accumulates when speed, compliance, or legacy systems outweigh intuition and clarity. She explains why dashboards often lag trust signals, how product leaders can quantify qualitative friction, and why empathy, alignment, and narrative-building are essential to protect customer trust at scale.

Guest Bio

Ashana Singhania is a product and innovation leader in fintech and banking, currently serving as VP Product Management at Goldman Sachs. Prior to this, she spent nearly a decade at American Express building and scaling products across payments, lending, risk, and digital banking.

She specializes in zero-to-one product launches, platform transformations, and navigating trade-offs between speed, regulatory compliance, and customer experience in complex enterprise environments.

Takeaways

• Customer experience is “everybody’s KPI, but nobody’s operating mandate” - and that’s where friction begins.
• Experience debt is more dangerous than technical debt because it erodes trust silently and spreads across teams.
• Dashboards lag trust signals - qualitative feedback, repeat contacts, and hesitation often reveal issues before metrics do.
• Quantifying friction requires translating customer pain into revenue delay, cost-to-serve increases, and operational inefficiencies.
• In regulated environments, trust and consent must take priority over speed - especially as AI and agentic commerce evolve.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ashana Singhania

02:18 Is experience part of product or vice versa?

05:04 Aligning silos around a North Star

08:10 Roadmaps, customer feedback, and evolving priorities

11:49 AI, agentic commerce, and trust in finance

16:01 When dashboards are green but trust is red

18:55 What is experience debt?

21:17 When experience debt becomes an organizational problem

24:50 Preventing friction through testing and metrics

31:17 Building cross-functional bridges in large institutions

35:44 Platform consolidation and hidden complexity

39:49 Technical debt vs experience debt

43:07 Making experience debt visible and actionable

47:54 Quantifying qualitative friction

52:44 Advice for product leaders in feature factories

LinkedIn

Ashana Singhania

Jochem van der Veer

Anne-Kathrine Nissen is a seasoned user experience leader who has driven customer-centric digital transformation across global brands like Airbus and Electrolux, and today shapes omnichannel experience at H&M across 79 markets. In this episode, she joins TheyDo co-founder Jochem van der Veer to unpack what it really takes to run experience-led transformation at global scale, where hundreds of journeys, cultures, and systems collide.

Together, they explore why customer journeys work best as an organizing principle rather than a static artifact, how vocabulary and storytelling create alignment across silos, and why experience leadership is ultimately about trust, influence, and long-term change management. The conversation challenges the idea of “simple journeys” and offers a grounded view on coherence over consistency in global CX.

Guest Bio

Anne-Kathrine Nissen is a User Experience and Journey Leader with extensive experience driving large-scale digital and experience transformation in global organizations. She has held senior design and experience roles at companies including Airbus and Electrolux, and currently leads product design and journey work at H&M, spanning digital, retail, and customer service. Known for her systems thinking and collaborative leadership style, Anna-Kathrine focuses on building coherence across complex ecosystems through trust, storytelling, and cross-functional alignment.

Key Takeaways

• There is no single customer journey at scale. Global organizations operate hundreds or thousands of journeys that need shared principles, not rigid maps.
• Customer journeys are most powerful as an organizing principle to align teams, language, and priorities across silos.
• Experience leadership requires speaking multiple vocabularies. Sales, tech, marketing, and design all need to hear the story in their own language.
• Consistency comes from shared principles and narrative, not identical experiences across markets.
• Insights do not die. They fade away unless actively evangelized, interpreted, and embedded into everyday decision-making.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and introductions

03:30 Why there is no such thing as a simple customer journey

05:40 Customer journeys as inspiration vs execution

09:10 Vocabulary, storytelling, and cross-functional alignment

12:30 Templates, coherence, and change management

18:00 Strategy, agility, and journey ownership

24:40 AI, agentic commerce, and the future of channels

27:20 Consistency vs coherence across global markets

38:00 From marketplace to brand: rethinking H&M’s experience

43:30 Driving transformation through journeys and insights

50:45 Making sense of a sea of experience data

57:15 Keeping insights alive inside large organizations

01:05:10 Where to connect with Anna-Kathrine

LinkedIn Profiles

Anne-Kathrine Nissen

Jochem van der Veer

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Adam Towne, Director of Product for Scaled Analytics and Funds at LSEG, began his career on an 11-hour help desk shift before moving into account management and ultimately product leadership. Now building analytics and API products for asset managers, banks, and hedge funds, he brings a rare perspective: customer support is not a cost center, it is a growth engine.

In this conversation, Adam reframes customer experience for sophisticated power users. Instead of chasing “aha” moments, he argues for monotony, reliability, and invisible excellence. From role-based access control pitfalls to the “tiny dot” reality of product in a larger ecosystem, he explores how product leaders can own CX without creating more silos.

Guest Bio

Adam Towne is Director of Product for Skilled Analytics and Funds at LSEG, where he leads data analytics and API products serving institutional clients including asset managers, banks, and hedge funds.

He previously spent seven years in fixed income analytics at Citi, transitioning from help desk to account management and product management. Adam is a CFA charter holder and holds an engineering degree from Cornell University. His expertise spans power-user product design, financial analytics, and building reliable systems for high-stakes environments.

Takeaways

• Customer experience is not a department, it is a product in itself and a shared responsibility across the organization.
• Power users do not want “aha” moments. They want reliability, monotony, and infrastructure they never have to think about.
• Good friction can exist in setup and onboarding for sophisticated users, but integration friction must be minimized.
• Feature creep for power users should be managed through primitive building blocks, not endless configuration options.
• Product leaders should own customer experience by aligning product decisions with support, sales, and operational metrics, not just revenue.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Adam Towne and LSEG

02:09 Lessons from starting on the help desk

03:55 Why customer experience is a product

06:18 What real customer centricity looks like

10:23 Designing for power users vs classic CX

13:34 Good friction vs bad friction

15:10 Trade-offs of focusing on power users

19:32 Enabling the broader organization around product changes

23:48 Visualizing cross-user journeys inside a customer

33:55 The “tiny dot” reality of product in a larger ecosystem

39:27 Who should own customer experience?

44:33 Product culture vs additional management layers

50:54 The measurement gap between product and CX

LinkedIn

Adam Towne

Jochem van der Veer

Steve Cleff, product design leader and founder of Prismatic Vision, has led product and design at Comcast, Barclays, and Siemens, helping global enterprises move beyond feature factories toward experience-led growth. In this episode, he shares how his background in UX, engineering, and fine arts shapes his belief that customer experience starts long before someone touches your product.

In conversation with Johan, Steve unpacks the tension between product and CX, why shared goals matter more than ownership, and how AI can accelerate - but not replace - human judgment. From RICE frameworks to agentic workflows, he challenges leaders to protect creativity and empathy while offloading structure and repetition.

Guest Bio

Steve Cleff is a product design leader with over 15 years of experience building software that improves people’s lives and strengthens how companies engage customers. He has led product and design initiatives across organizations including Comcast, Barclays, and Siemens, and has partnered with brands such as JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Target, and Vanguard.

Now the founder of Prismatic Vision, Steve helps organizations gain a competitive edge through experience-led strategy, multi-agent AI workflows, and cross-functional collaboration between product and customer experience teams.

Takeaways

• Customer experience begins before someone becomes a customer - from the first problem or “sniffle” to post-purchase advocacy.
• Product teams often drift into “feature farms” when roadmaps aren’t anchored in real customer journeys.
• CX and product don’t need strict ownership boundaries - they need shared goals and mutual reinforcement.
• AI should accelerate structure, synthesis, and distribution, but creativity, empathy, and strategic leaps must remain human-led.
• The future of roles may shift from titles like “PM” or “CX manager” to value-driven specialties like adoption and engagement.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Steve Cleff and Prismatic Vision

02:25 What product gets wrong about customer experience

05:39 How CX and product can work better together

10:42 Where CX should sit in an organization

13:41 Making product more experience-forward

16:25 Marketing, value perception, and product failure

18:06 Who owns the customer journey?

22:49 Why journeys rarely exist before you build them

24:20 What AI changes - and what stays human

33:00 What to offload to AI vs. keep human

40:01 From AI skeptic to AI advocate

47:40 Preventing AI from amplifying bad CX decisions

50:01 The future of product and CX roles

LinkedIn

Steve Cleff

Jochem van der Veer

What if 2026 isn’t the year of the agentic enterprise?

Most predictions paint 2026 as the moment AI suddenly takes over customer experience end to end. Autonomous agents. Self-driving journeys. Overnight transformation. 

In this Insights video, Jochem challenges that narrative - and argues the real shift is quieter, slower, and far more operational than the hype suggests. The risk for leaders isn’t moving too slowly - it’s aiming their CX strategy at a future that hasn’t arrived yet.

In this video:

• Why 2026 is about agent adoption - not agentic transformation

• How narrow agents quietly reshape CX work at the edges of journeys

• Why data validation becomes the real bottleneck for AI in CX

• How CX teams shift from insight production to stewarding trust

• When asynchronous AI work changes the pace and depth of decision-making

If speed is no longer the advantage, what does it mean to scale trust instead?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #ExperienceDesign #CXLeadership #AIinCX #DecisionMaking #OrganizationalDesign #SystemsThinking #ProductStrategy #ExperienceStrategy

Why executives nod at journey management - and then do nothing

Leaders rarely push back on customer centricity - it sounds sensible, even obvious - yet that agreement is often exactly where journey management quietly stalls. In this Insights video, Jochem reflects on why the issue isn’t resistance but misunderstanding: journey management is still framed as a belief or a set of maps, when in reality it represents an operating model shift that changes prioritisation, coordination, ownership, and metrics. 

The moment those implications become clear, the nodding stops, and that gap between agreement and impact is where most journey work dies. By reframing journey management as a coordination system rather than a CX deliverable, this reflection shows why a single pitch never works - and why connecting the language to what different leaders actually care about is the only way to move from concept to practice.

In this video:

• Why customer centricity is easy to agree with but hard to operationalise

• How journey management shifts decision-making, not just documentation

• Why functional leaders and P&L owners need fundamentally different translations

• How journey management reduces chaos for teams - and reveals growth constraints for the business

• What “executive empathy” really means when pitching customer journeys

If journey management keeps getting polite agreement but little traction, what are leaders actually hearing when you explain it?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

Suchi Parikh is a creative director and storyteller with a rare blend of design craft and business fluency. After a decade at Apple leading global sales content, she now serves as Director of Storytelling at PayPal, where she helps bring complex product innovation to life across agent commerce, Venmo, and global payments. Her work sits at the intersection of empathy, clarity, and persuasion - translating complexity into stories that move people to act.

In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Suchi unpacks why every presentation is an act of persuasion, how teams unintentionally dump complexity on their audience, and what it really takes to transform someone from awareness to action. Together, they explore practical frameworks for simplifying stories, designing for emotional shifts in customer journeys, and building trust through intentional storytelling.

Guest Bio

Suchi Parikh is a creative leader and Director of Storytelling at PayPal, where she shapes how product innovation is communicated across global payments and commerce experiences. Previously, she spent over 10 years at Apple as a Group Creative Director, leading global sales content and executive storytelling.

With a background in animation, design, and business, Suchi specializes in helping organizations clarify their thinking, reduce cognitive load, and communicate ideas with conviction. She is known for bridging creative storytelling with strategic business outcomes, and for mentoring teams to become more confident, intentional storytellers.

Key Takeaways

• Every presentation is an act of persuasion, even routine business updates.
• Complexity is the storyteller’s responsibility, not the audience’s burden.
• Great business stories start with one clear intention, often anchored in a single word.
• Emotional state matters as much as functional clarity in customer journeys.
• Trust is built through simplicity, sequencing, and empathy, not more information.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and background

01:32 From design to business storytelling at Apple

04:28 Why business presentations fail despite good data

07:13 Every presentation as an act of persuasion

09:56 A simple structure for clearer business stories

12:58 Removing cognitive load and the one-word anchor

19:50 Why having a point of view matters

25:10 Audience Context Transformation (ACT) framework

28:50 Emotional states in everyday customer journeys

35:30 Operationalizing storytelling in large organizations

40:24 Why energy matters more than logic

44:10 Practicing storytelling in safe environments

47:25 The role of a Director of Storytelling

48:56 Rules, frameworks, and when to break them

50:55 Learning from unexpected great storytellers

LinkedIn Profiles

Guest - Suchi Parikh

Host - Jochem

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• Why Journey Management Is Really Organizat...

• Why Collapsing CX Into Customer Service Br...

• Organizing CX around what matters. - Angel...

• Reflections 6 Why CX teams may be erasin...

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What if removing friction is ruining your customer experience?

Everyone in CX wants to make things effortless. Fast. Smooth. Seamless. But in this Reflections episode, Jochem explores a provocative idea from his conversation with Sam Stern (Service Design Lead at LinkedIn): not all friction is bad - some friction creates memory, meaning, and better decisions.

We unpack the difference between good friction and bad friction, with real examples from LinkedIn, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, IKEA, nightclubs, and Todd Unger’s work at the AMA. The goal isn’t to eliminate all effort - it’s to design effort where it matters most.

In this video:

• Why some friction helps customers think clearly and choose better

• How friction creates emotional contrast and memorable moments

• When organizational drag ruins customer experience

• The 4 types of customer journeys and how friction plays a role

• How to tell if your friction serves the customer - or your org

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn: @jochemvanderveer

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

#CustomerExperience #FrictionDesign #JourneyManagement #CXStrategy #ExperienceDesign #ServiceDesign #DecisionMaking #EmotionalDesign #OrganizationalDrag #MemoryDesign #CustomerCentricity #BehavioralDesign #ExperienceArchitecture #SamStern #TheyDo

Are journey maps just artifacts or operating systems in disguise?

In this episode, Jochem reflects on his conversation with Dan Sullivan, Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, to explore how journey management becomes true organizational design.

Dan's team didn’t just improve customer journeys - they restructured how decisions get made across teams. From building a “Journey Atlas” as a shared schema, to using immersive experiences to rewire executive thinking, their work signals a deeper shift: journey management isn’t about prettier maps. It’s about embedding customer thinking into the operating model.

In this video:

• Why journey management = organizational design

• How CSG created a decision-making nervous system

• The role of schema, structure, and centralized governance

• What 500 people experienced inside the “journey museum”

• Signs your journey maps are shaping strategy—not just workshops

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Charissa Riddle, Senior Director of Experience Design and Customer Experience Strategy and former EA executive, brings over two decades of experience spanning Electronic Arts, PayPal, and eBay. Known for operating at the intersection of design, operations, and strategy, Charissa has led global teams serving tens of millions of customers and players, tackling challenges like toxic behavior, self-service at scale, and embedding customer insight into decision-making.

In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Charissa reframes customer experience as a system rather than a department. They explore why CX loses power when it becomes too broad, how experience should be defined through actionable containers, and why stewardship of customer truth is the one responsibility CX leaders should never give away. Together, they unpack how governance, storytelling, and decision-making rituals determine whether CX drives real business impact or remains a reporting function.

Guest Bio

Charissa Riddle is a senior experience design and customer experience strategy leader with more than 20 years of experience across gaming, fintech, and marketplaces. Formerly at Electronic Arts, PayPal, and eBay, she has led global teams focused on experience design, service strategy, and operational transformation at scale. Charissa is known for her systems-level thinking, her ability to align cross-functional stakeholders, and her focus on turning customer insight into measurable business outcomes.

Key Takeaways

• Customer experience loses effectiveness when it is defined too broadly and without clear ownership or scope.
• CX works best as a system that connects interactions, emotions, and business outcomes across teams.
• Experiences should be defined in clear containers with entry points, exit points, and measurable impact.
• Metrics should be built from the experience outward, not imposed top-down as abstract efficiency measures.
• Stewardship of customer truth, journeys, and decision-making governance is a non-negotiable CX responsibility.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and framing CX beyond customer service

03:30 Why CX originated in service and why that still matters

06:16 CX as a mindset, function, or system

08:22 Defining experience as interactions that create emotion

11:32 Connecting emotion, loyalty, and business outcomes

18:06 Why CX definitions fail when they get too big

21:15 Accountability, containers, and governance

25:12 Making journeys tangible for leaders

29:30 Storytelling that drives decisions

31:47 Building a journey atlas at scale

35:36 Moving from metric-driven to experience-driven measurement

40:10 Centralization vs studio autonomy

44:47 Business goals vs customer-led change

46:04 Decision-making rituals and CX influence

51:48 Cross-functional focus and the toxicity example

57:59 What CX leaders should never give away

LinkedIn Profiles

Charissa Riddle

Jochem van der Veer

Martha Cotton, Managing Director at JPMorgan Chase, brings 25 years of experience bridging anthropology, design, and enterprise transformation. Known for helping large organizations understand people, navigate change, and design for adoption, Martha shares how empathy, collaboration, and partnership shape modern design leadership.

In this episode, she and Jochem explore how designers can speak the language of business, why data partnerships matter, and what it really takes to drive customer centricity inside legacy organizations. They examine the future of journey management, organizational transformation, and how AI will reshape creative work.

Guest Bio

Martha Cotton is Managing Director at JPMorgan Chase, where she leads design research and drives customer centricity across one of the world’s largest financial institutions. With a background in cultural anthropology, she has built a career spanning boutique studios, global consultancies, and enterprise design leadership.

Her work focuses on designing for adoption, shaping change inside complex organizations, and elevating design as a strategic partner to the business. Martha is also an educator and long-standing contributor to the Ethnographic Praxis in Industry community.

Takeaways

• Designing for adoption ensures experiences deliver sustained customer and business value.
• Design leaders must articulate impact in business terms, not just craft terms.
• Organizational change succeeds when it’s driven top down, bottom up, and radiating from the middle.
• Strong partnerships between design and data unlock measurable outcomes and credibility.
• Journey management becomes transformative when supported by diverse data and cross-functional collaboration.

Chapters

00:00 Setup and warm up

02:27 Intro to Martha Cotton

03:44 Martha’s career through line

05:46 Why empathy still matters in business

08:17 Skills needed to thrive in complex enterprises

12:04 Craft, business impact, and designing for adoption

14:42 How design leadership is evolving

16:37 The rise and pitfalls of design thinking

19:58 Making new ways of working stick

22:11 Breaking the glass ceiling for design

25:23 Moving from order taking to partnership

28:53 Charm offensive and influencing without disruption

30:57 Learning business context the hard way

32:40 Early days of digital transformation

33:45 Making transformation stick in enterprises

35:04 Top down, bottom up, and middle-out change

39:32 The challenge of creating opportunities inside enterprises

44:00 Design and data partnerships

47:26 The evolution of journey management

49:29 Data-enabled journeys and organizational reality

54:41 What Martha wishes she could change

55:47 Thinking about AI as a creative partner

58:29 Where to find Martha

LinkedIn

Guest: Martha Cotton

Host Jochem van der Veer

Most CX teams struggle to show ROI because they’re looking in the wrong place. CX isn’t just one metric and it was never meant to be. As Jochem van der Veer explains, leaders don’t fund sentiment… they fund outcomes.

In this episode, Jochem breaks down the three ROI lenses every mature CX organization uses to quantify impact across the business: customer outcomes, operational efficiency, and strategic influence, and how they work together to reveal the full-stack value of customer experience.

If you want CX to be taken seriously, stop defending it with dashboards and start showing how the system behaves differently because of the way you work.

What You’ll Learn

• How to measure and prove CX impact through three enterprise-wide signals:
• Customer Outcomes. How reduced churn, faster time-to-value, and increased cross-sell/upsell probabilities drive revenue growth
• Operational Efficiency. How fixing upstream friction cuts avoidable support volume, eliminates duplication of work, and reduces delay-driven waste
• Strategic Influence. How journey alignment accelerates prioritization, decision-making, and cross-functional clarity
• You’ll walk away with a practical, system-level view of CX ROI that product, finance, and executive teams actually believe.

KEYWORDS

business value of customer experience, customer experience ROI, CX strategy, customer retention, brand loyalty, experience management, CX metrics, customer insights, customer journey, customer feedback, business strategy, ROI, CX leadership, CX design, simon sinek, user experience, customer satisfaction, business growth, value proposition, customer service, customer relationships, marketing strategy

Watch next:

Bill’s full conversation on The Experience Edge podcast (link below).

• Experience starts with the CFO – Bill Staikos

Subscribe for more on journey management, CX strategy, and operationalizing customer-centricity at scale.

Like, comment, and share with your team if you’re ready to move from dashboards to boardrooms.

CONNECT WITH US:

Website: https://www.theydo.com/

LinkedIn: https://theydo-journey-management

Twitter: https://x.com/TheyDoHQ

Sam Stern, Service Design Lead at LinkedIn and longtime CX thinker, joins TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer to explore how journeys, data, and behavioral science shape memorable experiences. With a background spanning Forrester, New Balance, and his own CX Patterns podcast, Sam reveals why perfection is overrated and why some friction, when engineered well, can actually deepen customer value.

They dig into good friction, employee experience design, cross-silo collaboration, and how AI is reshaping research workflows. Sam challenges long held CX doctrines, offering a fresh lens on how to create experiences that customers remember and teams can deliver with confidence.

Guest Bio

Sam Stern is the Service Design Lead at LinkedIn, where he focuses on improving the employee and customer facing experiences that power the platform’s global ecosystem. Before LinkedIn, Sam spent nearly 16 years as a Principal Analyst at Forrester, shaping industry thinking on customer experience. He has also led CX at New Balance and is the creator of the CX Patterns podcast and newsletter. Sam is known for blending behavioral science, service design, and practical business insight to help organizations craft experiences that matter.

Key Takeaways

• Good friction can enhance memorability when intentionally designed, contrasted with the CX habit of removing all friction.
• Behavioral science principles like anticipation, contrast, and peak moments remain underused in customer experience design.
• Service design at LinkedIn prioritizes improving the employee experience for 12,000+ customer facing roles to strengthen customer outcomes.
• Journey readouts become dramatically more effective when grounded in video evidence from real users.
• AI accelerates research workflows but amplifies, rather than replaces, human judgment and context setting.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Sam Stern

02:00 Why another CX book

05:00 The concept of good friction

08:30 When friction helps and when it harms

12:00 Ethical considerations in engineered friction

16:00 How service design operates inside LinkedIn

21:00 Secrets to effective journey readouts

24:00 Helping product teams see beyond their scope

26:45 How prioritization works across product and CX

29:00 Journey atlas and cross org context

32:00 Blending CX, UX, and service design roles

35:00 Business impact and full stack builder

39:00 AI’s role in research and insight development

43:00 Can AI ever understand context

49:00 The future of service design and CX

58:00 Why silos aren’t going away

59:00 Where to find Sam

LinkedIn

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After more than 20 years at Philips, Tina Lilje knows what it takes to make customer experience more than a metric. As former Global Head of Customer Experience, she built a CX strategy across 100+ countries and 75,000 employees—connecting the dots between service, design, and leadership.

In this episode, Tina and TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer explore how healthcare is embracing AI without losing its human touch. From fixing design flaws that cost millions to turning executives into customer sponsors, Tina shares why the most successful CX strategies start with root causes, not dashboards—and why humans will always be healthcare’s most valuable premium.

Guest Bio

Tina Lilje is the former Global Head of Customer Experience at Philips, where she led the company’s global CX transformation across healthcare and B2B markets. Over two decades, she moved from marketing and M&A to executive CX leadership, designing a customer-first strategy spanning more than 100 countries. Known for operationalizing CX and aligning global teams around root-cause improvement, Tina now advises organizations on embedding customer-centric thinking that actually sticks.

Key Takeaways

• Fix root causes, not symptoms: Sustainable CX impact comes from addressing systemic design flaws, not surface-level issues.
• AI in healthcare needs humans: Technology should enhance, not replace, human care, especially in regulated, high-stakes industries.
• Customer voice is the strongest lever: Bringing real customer stories into leadership discussions drives alignment and urgency.
• KPIs must match behavior: Incentives shape culture, customer goals only work when bonuses, priorities, and structures reinforce them.
• Consistency beats perfection: True CX excellence lies in reliability, authenticity, and operational follow-through.

Episode Chapters

00:00 Welcome and introduction

03:00 Why humans are a premium in healthcare’s AI era

06:00 Balancing innovation with regulation in clinical settings

09:50 How small CX fixes drive major impact

14:30 Discovering the “detector” moment: fixing root causes

18:00 Turning CX from a program into a lasting function

25:00 Finding mentors and building CX leadership credibility

33:00 Creating partnerships, not transactions, with customers

41:00 Why NPS failed and what replaced it

48:20 Embedding CX across functions and KPIs

52:00 Aligning around customer realities, not silos

56:00 Incentives, ownership, and the human factor

01:04:00 When to go “all in” on CX, and when not to

01:06:30 Tina’s next chapter and closing thoughts

LinkedIn Profiles

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Can AI actually help you understand your customers - or is it just noise at scale?

As teams lean into AI to handle discovery work, it’s tempting to treat all insights as equal. But not all research sources are created equal - and AI isn’t great at everything.

In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer breaks down where AI actually supports discovery... and where it silently sabotages it. This is a guide for anyone using AI to scale research, sift through feedback, or make sense of customer data.

What You’ll Learn: • A side-by-side breakdown of 8 key research sources - and where AI helps (or fails) • Why AI performs well on written support data but fails to read tone, sarcasm, or urgency • How AI misses the intent behind interviews - and why that matters for product decisions • The danger of over-trusting CRM notes, sales transcripts, and survey sentiment without context • How to combine AI-assisted insights with human nuance to get to real customer truth

Follow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedIn

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo

Dan Sullivan, Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, has transformed how a major healthcare company connects business outcomes to customer experience. With a background spanning customer success, strategy, and design, Dan has built an enterprise-wide journey management practice that brings data, insights, and teams together to act as one.

In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Dan shares how CHG made journey management tangible, through immersive storytelling, data integration, and co-creation across teams. He reveals how to align CX with business strategy, balance customer obsession with outcomes, and create organizational change that lasts beyond the latest initiative.

Guest Bio

Dan Sullivan is the Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, where he leads the development and implementation of a company-wide journey management practice. His work bridges customer insight, product design, and business strategy to drive measurable impact. Prior to CHG, Dan led customer success at TheyDo and held strategic roles across startups and global enterprises. Known for his creative storytelling and systems thinking, he’s helping redefine how large organizations use journey management to become truly customer-led.

Top Takeaways

• Journey management is not about the artifact, it’s about changing how decisions are made across teams.
• Start with awareness, not solutions: make the problem visible before promoting the framework.
• Balance customer and business goals: customer obsession means nothing without measurable impact.
• Immersive storytelling drives adoption: CHG’s “journey museum” helped hundreds of employees walk in their customer’s shoes.
• Keep adapting: journey management is a living system, not a one-time rollout.

Chapters

00:00 Introducing Dan Sullivan and CHG Healthcare

02:12 Why it’s not about the journey itself

04:40 Customer centricity and business alignment

08:46 Balancing customer obsession with business goals

10:28 Finding gaps and building the case for journeys

13:20 Why CHG chose a journey-led approach

16:42 Connecting teams through shared journeys

18:48 Building an immersive journey experience

25:13 The impact of the immersive launch

29:19 From solution awareness to problem awareness

31:37 Making data meaningful, not just measurable

34:43 Using journeys as a decision-making tool

36:30 Keeping journey maps simple but powerful

40:38 Helping experience teams understand business impact

44:12 Organizational changes and long-term shifts

48:33 Embedding journeys into OKRs

52:14 Navigating resistance and scaling adoption

54:30 Governance, ownership, and design systems

58:18 Building ownership across teams

01:00:43 Advice to younger self and closing thoughts

LinkedIn Profiles

Dan Sullivan (CHG Healthcare)

Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo)

Raymond Otero, Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft, bridges customer success and experience to create truly journey-centered transformation. With nearly three decades of experience, Ray’s approach brings operational cohesion, data-driven insights, and a cultural shift that makes customer obsession real inside the enterprise.

In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Ray unpacks how Microsoft is blending CX and CS through journey-based operating models, how AI enables proactive coaching, and why humility and alignment—not hierarchy—drive lasting success.

Guest Bio

Raymond (Ray) Otero is Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft, where he leads strategic programs that connect customer success, experience design, and data insights across the organization. With over 25 years of experience spanning Citrix, Microsoft, and advisory roles with the Customer Success Collective and Influence Board, Ray helps global enterprises shift from reactive account management to proactive, journey-based transformation.

Takeaways

• CX and Customer Success must operate as one journey, not separate functions.
• “Leaning left” means involving success teams early—before the sale—to drive outcomes.
• AI should enhance human connection by removing repetitive tasks and surfacing insights.
• Journey health is the new north star—measuring alignment, not just satisfaction.
• True leadership requires humility, collaboration, and a culture of shared learning.

Chapters

00:00 Meet Raymond Otero, Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft

02:00 Redefining CX and Customer Success at Microsoft

06:00 Why silos hurt the customer journey

10:00 The “lean left” principle and early success engagement

14:00 CX as data, analytics, and rhythm of business

17:00 Journey as the organizational glue

19:00 Turning journeys into joint operating models

27:00 From tactical fixes to strategic programs

31:00 How AI reshapes customer success roles

36:00 Will AI replace CS jobs?

44:00 Building better CX organizations and roles

49:00 Structuring OKRs and aligning CX metrics

55:00 Journey-centered metrics and global alignment

59:00 Creating cultural cohesion and removing silos

01:03:00 Where to find Ray and final reflections

LinkedIn

Raymond Otero

Jochem van der Veer

Websites

microsoft.com (Company)

(Personal)

(Personal)

AI Won’t Fix Broken Customer Understanding

Are you speeding past discovery and straight into irrelevance?

Generative AI has made it easy to ship. Everyone can prototype, design, and launch faster than ever. But faster doesn’t mean better, and skipping discovery is a mistake teams keep making.

In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer (CEO of TheyDo) challenges the illusion of progress AI creates, and shows why the real return on investment lies in how we use AI for discovery - not delivery.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why skipping discovery leads to false confidence and wasted effort

• The overlooked ROI of AI: freeing time for deeper customer understanding

• How a scratched-up skate shoe saved Lego and what that means for your product strategy

• The limits of AI in research: where human insight still matters most

• A shift in mindset: from shipping more to learning faster

Follow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedIn

Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo

Bruno Monteiro, VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, is driving one of the boldest CX transformations in healthcare - reorganizing the company around customer journeys. Drawing on his time at JPMorgan Chase, where he pioneered the “experience object” strategy, Bruno explains what it takes to turn journey theory into business impact.

In this episode, he and TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer explore how to align teams, data, and leadership around outcomes that balance customer intent and business value. The conversation reveals why shared ownership, empathy, and orchestration, not technology alone, power true transformation.

Guest Bio

Bruno Monteiro is VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, where he leads the transformation of web and mobile experiences helping millions of Americans save and invest for health and wealth. Formerly Executive Director and Head of Service Design at JPMorgan Chase, he developed the “experience object” model and the UNDesign framework, applying systems thinking to reimagine how large enterprises align around journeys. Bruno also teaches at the School of Visual Arts and contributes to the Service Design Network.

Takeaways

• Journey management succeeds when accountability, not ownership, drives collaboration.

• Taxonomy and shared language are essential to aligning business and customer outcomes.

• Product owners are evolving into “journey orchestrators” focused on end-to-end experiences.

• Metrics must layer: KPIs + CX scores + UX signals = true visibility.

• AI accelerates discovery but cannot replace empathy or human insight.

Chapters

 00:00 Intro and the Trojan Horse at Chase

 03:07 What it means to lead with journeys

 07:33 Jobs to be Done vs. Journeys vs. Experiences

 10:28 Journey architecture and taxonomy

 14:10 Journey ownership and org structure at Chase

 18:18 Accountability and the role of journey owners

 21:34 Balancing business and customer outcomes

 25:50 Coordinating the journey architecture

 28:58 The evolution from product to journey management

 34:33 Designing metrics that resonate with the business

 39:37 Starting small and building behavior change

 42:28 Selecting the first journeys to transform

 43:41 Why NPS isn’t enough

 46:00 Using layered metrics to reveal friction

 50:04 Upskilling product owners for better discovery

 51:40 Structuring research around journeys

 55:27 AI’s limitations in customer empathy

 58:16 Synthetic users and bias in design

 01:02:29 AI can support, but not replace, deep research

 01:05:27 Building empathy through real customer contact

 01:08:16 Final advice and the vision of UNDesign

 01:10:17 Where to find Bruno and follow his work

LinkedIn

Bruno Monteiro:   LINKEDIN

Jochem van der Veer: LINKEDIN

KEYWORDS:  #CustomerExperienceDesign #JourneyBasedTransformation #DigitalExperienceLeadership #CXMetricsAndKPIs #ProductToJourneyShift #HealthcareCX #FinancialServicesCX #ExperienceArchitecture #CustomerIntentData #OrchestratedCustomerJourneys #DesignForOutcomes #UNDesignFramework #AIInCX #EmpathyDrivenDesign #ServiceDesignLeadership #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #DigitalTransformation #ProductToJourney #ServiceDesign #CustomerEmpathy #SystemsThinking #EndToEndDesign #ExperienceBlueprinting #CXLeadership #JobsToBeDone #CustomerIntent #CXMetrics #AIAndCX #UNDesignMindset #CX #Journeys #Design #Empathy #AI #Leadership #Data #Strategy #Systems #Innovation #Metrics #Blueprints #Outcomes #Ownership #Discovery

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer speaks with Bruno Monteiro, VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, about what it truly takes to transform large organizations around customer journeys. From implementing journey management at JP Morgan Chase as a "Trojan horse" strategy to now leading an experience-centered transformation in healthcare, Bruno offers sharp, practical insights into how CX leaders can move from theory to enterprise-wide practice.

Bruno unpacks the challenges of scaling journey ownership, balancing business metrics with customer intent, and creating visibility through journey architectures. He dives into the need for shared accountability, behavior change, and empathy-building through real customer insights, beyond the limitations of synthetic data and dashboards. For anyone driving or scaling journey-based transformation, this episode is a masterclass.

Guest Bio

Bruno Monteiro is the Vice President and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, where he leads digital transformation across web and mobile platforms to help millions of Americans manage their health and wealth. Previously, he was Executive Director and Head of Service Design at JP Morgan Chase, where he pioneered journey-based transformation using the "Experience Object Strategy." He is the creator of UNDesign, a mindset and methodology to dismantle legacy systems and drive systemic change. Bruno also teaches at SVA’s MFA in Design for Social Innovation and is a contributor to the Service Design Network.

Takeaways

• Journey Management Requires Real Accountability: Journey owners must have end-to-end decision-making power, not just titles.
• Balance Customer and Business Outcomes: True impact comes from aligning customer needs with measurable business value.
• Taxonomy is Foundational: Organizations need a shared language around journeys, jobs to be done, and experiences.
• Start Small, Then Scale: Begin with high-friction, high-volume journeys to prove value and gain traction.
• Design for Alignment, Not Just Execution: Orchestrating roadmaps across multiple teams and OKRs is key.
• NPS Isn’t Enough: It's useful for stakeholder buy-in, but real transformation needs layered metrics and operational data.
• Blueprinting Should Include System Decisions: “Service archaeology” reveals legacy constraints that block innovation.
• Don’t Just Show the Journey, Make It the Source of Truth: Create accessible, dynamic journey architecture systems.
• AI Has Limits in Empathy and Intent: Human insight is still essential for identifying emotional and contextual signals.

• Product Owners Must Evolve: The journey owner role is the next step in aligning teams around end-to-end outcomes.
• UNDesign Is About Dismantling to Rebuild: Bruno’s methodology encourages questioning, unlearning, and system transformation.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and the Trojan Horse at Chase

03:07 What it means to lead with journeys

07:33 Jobs to be Done vs. Journeys vs. Experiences

10:28 Journey architecture and taxonomy

14:10 Journey ownership and org structure at Chase

18:18 Accountability and the role of journey owners

21:34 Balancing business and customer outcomes

25:50 Coordinating the journey architecture

28:58 The evolution from product to journey management

34:33 Designing metrics that resonate with the business

39:37 Starting small and building behavior change

42:28 Selecting the first journeys to transform

43:41 Why NPS isn’t enough

46:00 Using layered metrics to reveal friction

50:04 Upskilling product owners for better discovery

51:40 Structuring research around journeys

55:27 AI’s limitations in customer empathy

58:16 Synthetic users and bias in design

01:02:29 AI can support, but not replace, deep research

01:05:27 Building empathy through real customer contact

01:08:16 Final advice and the vision of UNDesign

01:10:17 Where to find Bruno and follow his work

LinkedIn

Follow Bruno Monteiro

Follow Jochem van der Veer

Governance Models Every CX Leader Should Know

One global staffing firm discovered they were solving the same customer problem six different ways across regions. No alignment, duplicated work, eroded trust - not a tooling issue, but a governance issue.

In this episode, Jochem van der Veer (CEO of TheyDo) shares what he’s learned about how to structure journey management from working with 50-60 Fortune 500 companies.

He breaks down four real-world journey governance models - from Central Command to Full Autonomy - and explains the pros, cons, and trade-offs of each. You’ll hear how organizations move from chaos to coordination, and why your journey operating model is your real CX “operating system.”

You’ll learn how to scale journey management without bottlenecks, and why your governance model is the hidden lever behind customer-centric growth.

Key Insights

• Why CX transformation often stalls due to operating model failure, not tools
• The four governance models for journey management: Orchestrated, Hub & Spoke, Federated Excellence, and Full Autonomy
• How to decide who owns journeys, who governs frameworks, and who decides standards
• How distributed ownership can speed up delivery 50–60% while still keeping alignment
• Why your journey framework should work like a shared data warehouse - one truth, many tailored views

Subscribe to The Experience Edge for more on journey management, CX strategy, and the future of customer-centric organizations. Like, comment, and share this episode with your team if you’re wrestling with silos or fragmented journeys.

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CXLeadership #DigitalTransformation #BreakingSilos #CustomerCentricity #ExperienceEdge

If you can’t map customer experience to a business metric your CFO already obsesses over, you’re playing the wrong game.”

That’s how Bill Staikos - former Global Head of Experience at BNY Mellon and CX leader at American Express, JP Morgan, and Freddie Mac - describes the future of customer experience.

In this episode, Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo) reflects on his recent podcast episode with Bill, unpacks what it really means to tie customer outcomes to business results, and why most CX teams are still speaking the wrong language.

What You’ll Learn

How to connect CX metrics to growth, risk, and operating leverage, the language of the C‑suite

• Why delight and NPS aren’t enough to earn credibility
• A 3‑step shift to translate customer outcomes into business impact
• How to earn a seat at the table by proving measurable ROI from experience work

Watch next: Bill’s full conversation on The Experience Edge podcast (link below).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9107GkJD4g

Subscribe for more on journey management, CX strategy, and operationalizing customer‑centricity at scale.

Like, comment, and share with your team if you’re ready to move from dashboards to boardrooms.

#CustomerExperience #CXLeadership #CustomerCentricity #BusinessImpact #JourneyManagement #ExperienceEdge #BNYMellon #CFO #CXStrategy

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem Van Der Veer speaks with Eric Roux, Customer Experience Director at Cisco and co‑founder of the Boston Blockchain Association, about a compelling but underexplored idea: embedding customer experience (CX) into the go‑to‑market engine by forging a tight partnership with sales. They dive into how this alignment enables brands to deliver on promises, orchestrate outcomes, and avoid the “tossing over the fence” trap that many CX organizations fall into.

They also cover how CX leaders should build teams that are empowered and adaptive (not just follow the textbook), the nuanced role of metrics and trust, and how AI is starting to play a supporting, but not dominant, role in high‑touch enterprise relationships. Eric shares practical examples of how he’s applied these ideas in enterprise contexts and offers advice for scaling intimacy in consumer or low‑touch environments.

Guest Bio

Eric Roux is Customer Experience Director at Cisco, where he leads efforts to tightly integrate CX with sales, ensuring that customer promises made in the pursuit phase are honored through delivery and ongoing value creation. He is also a co‑founder of the Boston Blockchain Association, supporting innovation and connecting emerging tech leaders with funding and mentorship. With a background in consulting and professional services at top firms, Eric brings both strategic depth and hands‑on discipline to the CX space.

What you will learn

• CX and sales must “show up together” and speak with one unified voice to align around customer outcomes.
• It’s not enough for sales to hand off a customer, real partnership means knowing when CX leads and when sales leads, and stepping in accordingly.
• The human dimension (listening, relationships, trust) remains central in delivering CX, even more so than methodology and tools.
• Formalizing CX as a discipline sometimes leads teams to overemphasize frameworks and lose sight of customer reality.
• High performers in CX don’t need the textbook; they instinctively adapt, experiment, and course‑correct.
• A strong CX team is built by enabling autonomy, allowing for mistakes, and prioritizing growth and chemistry over rigid structure.
• In high-touch enterprise environments, CX serves as the orchestrator: in the room with the customer, tying threads together, facilitating alignment.
• In low-touch or high-volume contexts, CX must lean heavily on measurements, signals, and relationships with stakeholder proxies.
• AI is a powerful assistant: e.g. refining meeting preparation, automating analysis, but it doesn’t replace judgment, empathy, or orchestration.
• Metrics can be overdone: choose the ones that matter, set boundaries, and be willing to evolve them over time.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & framing: CX + Sales partnership

02:19 Why speak with one voice

04:19 Why many organizations struggle

06:04 Building the partnership: who initiates

08:00 What we lose in formalizing CX

09:17 Team composition & hiring

10:36 Orchestration across CX & Sales

13:13 Example: bringing people into the room

15:19 CX as the central orchestrator

17:42 Low‑touch / high-volume CX challenges

20:19 Distinctions between high-touch & transactional

22:31 Should CX be a department?

24:26 Role of AI in high-touch CX

27:55 Scaling productivity & journey to value

30:30 The expectation shift in delivery

32:16 Trust, consultant role & relationships

33:10 Obsession with metrics

35:20 Working backward from outcomes

36:46 Accountability and cross-domain problems

38:16 Incentivizing CX roles

40:43 Close to the customer in startups

42:59 How to keep intimacy while scaling

45:18 Traits of CX “rock stars”

47:13 Entry-level roles, AI & the future

50:00 Analytics vs. human insight

52:07 Incentives, role design & alignment

52:35 Closing / how to reach Eric

LinkedIn & Other Links

Follow Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo)

Follow Eric Roux

Eric's Website Boston Blockchain Association

Watch the Full Video HERE

One global staffing firm discovered they were solving the same customer problem six different ways across regions. No alignment, duplicated work, eroded trust - not a tooling issue, but a governance issue.

In this episode, Jochem van der Veer (CEO of TheyDo) shares what he’s learned about how to structure journey management from working with 50-60 Fortune 500 companies.

He breaks down four real-world journey governance models - from Central Command to Full Autonomy - and explains the pros, cons, and trade-offs of each. You’ll hear how organizations move from chaos to coordination, and why your journey operating model is your real CX “operating system.”

You’ll learn how to scale journey management without bottlenecks, and why your governance model is the hidden lever behind customer-centric growth.

Key Insights

• Why CX transformation often stalls due to operating model failure, not tools
• The four governance models for journey management: Orchestrated, Hub & Spoke, Federated Excellence, and Full Autonomy
• How to decide who owns journeys, who governs frameworks, and who decides standards
• How distributed ownership can speed up delivery 50–60% while still keeping alignment
• Why your journey framework should work like a shared data warehouse - one truth, many tailored views
• Subscribe to The Experience Edge for more on journey management, CX strategy, and the future of customer-centric organizations.

Like, comment, and share this episode with your team if you’re wrestling with silos or fragmented journeys.

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer sits down with CX thought leader Stacy Sherman to unpack what it really means to “do CX right.” Stacy draws on her 25+ years of leadership at brands like Verizon, AT&T, Schindler, and more, and shares hard-won lessons in aligning culture, accountability, and cross‑functional execution. Their conversation weaves from the pitfalls of siloed thinking and unmet promise gaps to the art of embedding delight and meaningfully leveraging AI and data in the service of experience.

Listeners will come away with a richer understanding of why “customer experience is an inside job,” how to design journeys that bridge internal organization and external expectations, and how to pilot and scale CX initiatives that truly matter to both customers and the business.

Guest Bio

Stacy Sherman is an award‑winning CX strategist, author, speaker, and educator with more than 25 years of leadership in brands such as Verizon, AT&T, Schindler, LiveOps, BPO, and Wilton Brands. She holds an MBA and is the voice behind the Doing CXRite podcast. Stacy helps organizations move beyond superficial CX initiatives toward deeply aligned, cross‑functional execution that drives retention, brand advocacy, and meaningful experiences.

Takeaways

• CX is everyone’s responsibility, no matter the function, every role influences the customer experience.
• Siloed organizations kill consistency, conflicting metrics, goals, and disconnected systems lead to broken promises.
• “Inside job” mindset, true customer experience begins internally (culture, training, alignment), not just on the front line.
• Discretionary effort matters, small acts (like helping a customer move goods in the rain) create emotional highs and lasting memory.
• Blend human + tech, don’t replace one with the other, AI and automation should empower employees, not bypass them.
• Data is only useful if actionable, voice of customer + voice of employee feedback must translate into prioritized action.
• Pilot first, scale second, start small, prove value, then expand.
• Alignment & measurement across teams, linking CX metrics to business goals ensures cross‑functional buy‑in.
• Close the loop, daily, feedback must flow to the right teams and customers need to see that something happens.
• Design journeys holistically, consider internal and external touchpoints, handovers, and “pass-over zones” between teams.
• Leadership orchestration is essential, one “conductor” or team is needed to keep cross-functional alignment moving.
• Respect content, context & timing, don’t over‑delight everywhere; choose where delight is meaningful and sustainable.

Chapters

00:00 Intro banter, setting the stage

01:59 Guest formal introduction

03:21 Why CX is often practiced poorly

05:32 Silo issues & misalignment

10:13 “CX is an inside job”

12:46 Discretionary acts that delight

16:25 Bridging online and offline friction

18:18 Designing vs validating experiences

21:03 Moments of emotional delight

24:00 Embedding CX metrics across teams

26:58 Pilot programs & scaling

28:48 Beyond journey mapping

32:11 Orchestration & central leadership

38:42 AI’s role in experience

44:15 Removing silos & consistency

47:42 Where to inject journey thinking

50:09 Scaling feedback loops

53:46 Leadership & execution

55:38 Closing and how to reach Stacy

LinkedIn / Links

Follow Jochem van der Veer

Follow Stacy Sherman

Stacy’s website: https://doingcxright.com/

Stacy’s podcast: Doing CXRite

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer sits down with Blake Morgan, customer experience (CX) futurist and author, to explore what’s stayed true in CX over the past decade, where business leaders often fall short, and how to build a customer-centric culture in a modern, AI-driven world. Blake highlights that while tools and channels have evolved (especially AI), fundamental human needs, being seen, heard, and having problems solved, remain the same. She emphasizes the importance of trust, long-term thinking, and tying CX efforts directly to business outcomes like revenue and customer retention. Throughout, she offers practical guidance on how organizations, especially in the “messy middle” of their structure, can embed CX mindsets, empower frontline and middle managers, link performance metrics to customer value, and begin with low-friction, high-impact actions.

Guest Bio

Blake Morgan is a leading voice in customer experience, known for her role as a CX futurist, author, and speaker. She is the author of The 8 Laws of Customer‑Focused Leadership: New Rules for Building a Business Around Today’s Customer, a framework rooted in research and interviews with top business leaders for making CX central to strategy. Blake is also the founder of the Modern Customer Podcast, an instructor on LinkedIn Learning, and frequently contributes to outlets like Forbes and Harvard Business Review. She helps organizations build trust, elevate customer‑centric culture, and align CX practices with revenue growth.

Takeaways

• Here are 10–12 key insights from the episode:
• Humanity still matters. Despite advances in technology and AI, customers still crave human interaction, being greeted, being seen, empathy. Blake Morgan
• Trust is a bank. Every customer interaction is a deposit or withdrawal from trust. Hidden fees, lack of transparency, or making it hard to reach a human cost trust heavily.
• Short‑term gains vs long‑term relationships. Boards often emphasize short‑term metrics, but Blake argues for balancing immediate profit with sustained customer loyalty and relationship building.
• Metrics beyond satisfaction. While customer satisfaction, Net Promoter Score, etc., are important, understanding revenue behavior (repeat purchases, referrals, churn etc.) gives stronger causal insight into CX impact.
• Start small, fix what's broken. Even in large enterprises, you can begin with friction points that frontline employees and customers call out and deliver improvements that matter.
• Middle managers are pivotal. They often get overlooked but are essential to bridging strategy and execution, coaching teams, and embedding the CX mindset across departments.
• Think of CX as everyone’s responsibility. It shouldn't live in a silo (a department) but be woven into every function, product, marketing, support, HR, operations.
• Employee experience mirrors CX. Engaged, empowered employees who understand purpose and feel supported deliver much stronger customer experience.
• AI as an enabler, not a replacement. Brands like Sephora are using AI to gather richer feedback and personalize content, but only when used thoughtfully, not to replace human connection.
• Law of the mindset is foundational. From Blake’s “8 Laws” framework, creating a customer experience mindset is the starting point, especially in an environment of rapid change. Blake Morgan

Chapters

00:00 Introduction & What’s Still True in CX

02:30 Underestimated Shifts & Trust in CX

07:40 Boardroom Perspective & Balancing Short‑ vs Long‑Term

11:50 Culture, Performance Metrics & CX Mindset

17:20 Employee Experience & Manager Role

37:40 AI’s Role: Enhancing or Undermining Emotional Intelligence

41:12 Starting Small & Building Momentum

44:16 The “Law” to Focus on Now & Closing Thoughts

LinkedIn

Follow Blake Morgan on LinkedIn

Follow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedIn

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem Van Der Veer sits down with Santos Subramanyam, Director of Enterprise Products, CX & UX at Macy’s, to explore how customer experience has evolved over time, and what timeless truths still matter. Drawing from Santos’s extensive background in retail, hospitality, automotive, SaaS, and more, they dig into the role of measurement beyond NPS/MPS, the importance of aligning teams around customer journeys, and how AI and data are enabling more real‐time, human‐centred decisions. The conversation is rich with examples, from redesigning checkout flows in store, to localized customer experience, to prototyping with empathy, that illustrate how to build experiences that scale and deliver business outcomes.

They also examine what it takes to shift organization culture: elevating customer journey thinking from execution teams all the way up to the C‑suite; storytelling and alignment; and the real work of bringing teams, data, and leadership together. Santos shares both his successes and the friction points, especially around aligning priorities, defining what metrics truly matter, and using small wins and service design to drive momentum.

Guest Bio

Santos Subramanyam is Director of Enterprise Products, CX & UX at Macy’s. He leads large, cross‑functional teams to build scalable design systems, align business and customer outcomes, and use data and AI to optimize customer and colleague experiences. Santos has a diverse industry background, including retail, SaaS, hospitality (notably Marriott), and automotive, and has driven major transformations: boosting metrics like MPS/MPS across tens of thousands of associates, cutting transaction times in stores, modernizing legacy systems with holistic designs, and partnering with business, product, engineering, and data teams for measurable impact. He’s also an advocate for culture, localization, and embedding journey thinking across organizations.

Takeaways

• Past truths remain valuable , Experiences in physical retail and in‑person interactions still matter; digital cannot fully replace physical touchpoints.
• Modernizing systems is more than UI , It involves hardware, ergonomics, flow, colleague tools, and the mental model of how people (both customers and employees) interact.
• Metrics beyond MPS/NPS , Focusing on speed, ease, transparency, transaction times etc., rather than relying solely on MPS as a steering lever.
• Use service blueprints and Kaizen for discovering inefficiencies (even small ones) in physical + digital touchpoints; small changes can scale into large operational improvements.
• Storytelling & visualization matter , Enacting journey pain points (via role‑play) or using narrative visuals makes executive alignment easier.
• Cultural alignment is hard but essential , Organizational culture, leadership mindset, individual KPIs can misalign; aligning around customer journey thinking is an ongoing effort.
• Influence through small wins , Prove with smaller initiatives to build trust and momentum before big change.
• Engage stakeholders where they are , Whether legal, product, tech, or operations, find ways to include them in the journey, storytelling, and showing shared value.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & Name Pronunciation

 03:11 Santos’s Background & What Still Holds True in CX

 06:30 The 80‑20 Rule & Localisation in Global CX

 12:30 Moving Beyond NPS/MPS: Business Metrics & Speed of Transaction

 18:30 Journey Mapping, Service Blueprints & Physical + Digital Integration

 23:00 Prioritization, Autonomy & Small Wins

 27:40 Organizing Teams Around Outcomes vs Functions

 30:50 Storytelling Up the Org & C‑Suite Engagement

 38:20 AI Use Cases: Call Center, Conversational Agents, Merchant Tools

 50:30 Using Reports, Data, Feedback Loops to Drive Action

 57:00 Magic Wand Question: What Would You Change Most?

 59:00 What’s Next for Journey Alignment & Final Thoughts

LinkedIn Profiles

Guest: Santos Subramanyam

Host: Jochem van der Veer

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer sits down with Bill Staikos, a globally recognized CX leader with more than two decades of experience driving customer and employee experience transformation in financial services, consulting, and tech. Bill shares his candid perspective on the state of CX today, including why the function has struggled to mature, what it takes for leaders to earn a true seat at the executive table, and why journeys remain critical to connecting silos.

Together, Jochem and Bill dive into the challenges of aligning CX to business strategy, the role of AI in enabling both orchestration and context, and why defining value is the non-negotiable first step for any experience program. Bill also gives a preview of his upcoming podcast The Multimodal Experience, where he explores how emerging technologies will reshape how we interact with brands and organizations. This episode is a masterclass in cutting through jargon and redefining what it means to create business impact through customer experience.

Guest Bio

Bill Staikos is a senior customer experience executive with over 20 years of leadership across financial services, consulting, and technology. He has held senior roles at American Express, Freddie Mac, JP Morgan, and BNY Mellon, where he led global initiatives to transform client and employee experiences. A former SVP at Medallia, Bill helped organizations turn insights into measurable outcomes.

Recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice and one of the Top 50 Global CX Influencers, Bill is also the founder of the Be Customer-Led podcast and is now preparing to launch The Multimodal Experience. Known for his pragmatic, impact-driven approach, Bill advises leading brands—including Apple, Bank of America, Marriott, and T-Mobile—on connecting customer experience to business growth.

Takeaways

• The customer’s core needs haven’t changed: at the heart of every business, customers simply want to achieve their goals.
• CX has become overly synonymous with surveys, leaving vast amounts of uncollected insights untapped.
• Many CX teams lack execution capacity, limiting their ability to drive business outcomes.
• Defining value—for both the customer and the business—is the essential first step for CX leaders.
• CX is not just reporting; it must directly connect customer metrics to core business metrics.
• Teams must evolve beyond VOC experts to include data science, finance, and technology skill sets.
• The best way to get leadership attention is to demonstrate tangible impact (e.g., churn reduction, revenue growth).
• Journeys are essential tools to connect silos and create a shared context across teams.
• AI can enable orchestration at both the customer level and the enterprise level.
• Change leadership and change management are equally critical to successful adoption of new capabilities.
• CX leaders must frame their work in business language (growth, risk, operating leverage) to resonate at the C-suite.
• The future of CX is multimodal, blending AI, XR, wearables, and new interfaces into everyday customer and employee experiences.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Bill Staikos

02:34 What hasn’t changed in CX over two decades

05:24 CX’s survey problem and its consequences

08:13 Should CX be its own department?

10:59 Defining value in customer experience

13:47 Skill, will, and talent gaps in CX teams

19:23 Examples of CX creating business impact

25:21 Why journeys are vital for connecting silos

36:25 The role of AI in context and orchestration

43:57 Where organizations should start with AI and CX

46:11 Should CX leaders engage in the CIO’s AI agenda?

49:59 Launching The Multimodal Experience podcast

52:31 Closing reflections and future directions

LinkedIn

Bill Staikos: LinkedIn Profile

Jochem van der Veer: LinkedIn Profile

In this special edition of The Experience Edge, we bring together six of our most impactful guests in one powerful narrative, tracing the journey of CX transformation from leadership mindset to system change—and ultimately to measurable business impact.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• Why vulnerable leadership and cross-functional trust are foundational to CX
• How to break down organizational silos to deliver seamless experiences
• The role of content, storytelling, and digital strategy in engaging customers
• Why measurement, experimentation, and feedback loops are critical for impact
• How AI enables real-time synthesis - and where human empathy still matters
• Who should truly own the customer journey (spoiler: it’s not just one team)

Featuring standout insights from top CX leaders who’ve led transformations inside complex enterprises, from healthcare to transportation, financial services to tech.

Whether you're a CX strategist, product leader, or experience designer, this episode is your fast track to understanding what it really takes to evolve customer experience in 2025 and beyond.

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In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer is joined by Angelique Wyszynski, Global Head of Insurance Innovation and CX at HSB (Hartford Steam Boiler). With over two decades of customer experience leadership in risk-averse industries like insurance and finance, Angie shares how she’s transforming CX from the inside out, without creating new silos. They unpack how to embed CX into legacy systems, operationalize customer insights, build credibility with finance, and scale innovation in heavily regulated environments.

Angie offers a playbook for CX leaders to drive value in complex organizations, showing how her centralized team delivers high-impact research, innovation strategy, and operational alignment, while fostering a culture that’s both customer and employee obsessed.

Guest Bio

Angelique Wyszynski is the Global Head of Insurance Innovation and Customer Experience at HSB (Hartford Steam Boiler). She has spent 20+ years leading CX strategy, innovation, and transformation in some of the most regulated industries, including insurance and finance. Angie previously held senior roles at Travelers and The Hartford, where she built one of the most comprehensive voice-of-customer programs in the industry.

At HSB, she leads a multidisciplinary team focused on embedding customer insights, enabling innovation across product and service lines, and translating customer feedback into measurable business value. Known for her expertise in behavioral economics, strategic foresight, and cross-functional collaboration, Angie is redefining what it means to be customer-centric in complex B2B environments.

Takeaways

• First CX hires must co-create, not impose: Build programs with business partners, not for them.
• Start with listening: Angie interviewed 45+ leaders to define CX maturity and align strategy.
• Embed research as function, not an afterthought, to democratize insights and enable innovation.
• Quality CX output = actionable, contextualized insights tied to business outcomes.
• Partnering with finance is critical to prove CX value and secure long-term credibility.
• Prioritization is structured by strategic alignment, not the loudest voice.
• Centralized teams enable agility and scale in complex organizations.
• Teaching others to “fish” helps scale CX without bottlenecks.
• Journey maps are powerful, if made simple, shareable, and built with the business.
• Innovation thrives when insights are pushed to the edge and new ideas come from everywhere.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Angelique Wyszynski

01:11 Why HSB Was Ready for CX Transformation

04:49 Avoiding the Trap of CX Silo Creation

06:28 Running a 45-Interview CX Diagnostic

09:06 The Universal Insight that Sparked Her Team

11:37 How to Get Early Traction

15:52 High-Quality Research Means Actionable Results

18:14 Partnering with Finance to Show CX ROI

23:17 Building a 20-Person CX & Innovation Team

25:41 How the Team Prioritizes Work Across HSB

27:43 The Innovation Funnel and Idea Scoring

30:59 Defining Innovation at HSB

33:54 Can Organizations Innovate Without CX?

34:55 Why Centralized CX Still Works

36:47 Managing Strategic Focus vs. Business Requests

38:14 Will AI Make CX Fully On-Demand?

41:22 Journey Mapping: Keeping It Tangible

46:36 Taxonomy Trouble: What’s a Journey, Really?

49:24 Why Journey Thinking Is Back

52:08 Can Insurance Organize Around Journeys?

53:23 Best, Worst & First Customer Journeys

58:21 Current Focus Areas at HSB

1:00:11 Connect with Angie on LinkedIn

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Why Talking to 10 Customers Beats 10,000 AI Insights

Are your customer insights grounded in reality - or just AI-generated guesswork?

Synthetic research is everywhere. It looks real, sounds strategic, and gives you confident answers. But according to Gia Laudi, it’s BS if it isn’t rooted in real conversations with actual customers.

In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) breaks down the false confidence synthetic insights create - and why teams relying on AI to define personas, journeys, and jobs to be done are building on sand.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why synthetic research is tempting - and dangerous

• Six common traps hiding in plain sight

• Why real conversations with 10-12 customers outperform 1,000 AI-generated “insights”

• How to anchor your growth in reality using a hybrid model

• What CX teams, marketers, and product leaders miss when nuance is stripped away

• The risks of basing strategic decisions on data that “sounds right” but isn’t real

• Why research is meant to reduce uncertainty, not fake clarity

Join the conversation:

When was the last time your team talked to 10 real customers before making a big decision?

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Stop Saying You Are Customer Centric

Is your company actually customer centric - or just saying it is?

75% of companies claim to be customer-first. But only 30% of customers agree. In some surveys, the gap is even worse: 81% of leaders say they’re customer-centric... and only 3% of customers believe them.

In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) exposes the disconnect between intent and execution - and how journey coordination bridges the gap between brand promises and customer reality.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why most customer-centricity efforts fail - despite good intentions

• How internal misalignment shows up as friction in the customer journey

• The hidden cost of symbolic gestures: workshops, research, and surveys that don’t lead to action

• Real examples from telco and transportation sectors - where clarity around where to act changed outcomes

• The dangers of insight without ownership: when knowing the problem still doesn’t lead to change

• How journey coordination becomes the operational structure for proving customer focus

• What high-performing organizations do differently

• Why customer centricity isn’t a campaign - it’s a structure

Join the conversation:

Where is your company performing customer centricity… without practicing it?

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“Nobody’s just trying to withdraw money.”

That line from the podcast episode with Nathan Zahm (Vanguard) sparked this episode - and it reveals a blind spot in how most teams approach customer experience.

In this video, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) unpacks the three-level journey model used at Vanguard and why so many teams miss the middle: the moments that matter.

If your team is optimizing for task completion or designing abstract lifecycle stages, but struggling to create real impact - this model is what you're missing.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why task journeys (what the customer does) are just one layer
• How moments that matter (what the customer feels) bridge short-term action and long-term strategy
• What defines a life journey (what the customer wants) - and how to show up when it matters most

The three types of value this model unlocks

• Metrics to track each level: from call deflection to drop-off rates to customer lifetime value
• Real examples from Vanguard: retirement planning, 529 savings, and building trust across decades
• Why most CX teams fail to act - and how this framework helps you prioritize what actually matters

Join the conversation:

What are the moments that matter that your company needs to get right - and do you?

See the podcast episode with Nathan Zahm here.

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#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CXStrategy #TheyDo #Vanguard #MomentsThatMatter #CustomerJourney #OperationalExcellence #EmotionalDesign #LifeJourneys #CXLeadership

In this energizing episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer is joined by customer experience visionary Dan Gingiss. With leadership roles at Discover, McDonald's, and Humana, and as author of Becoming the Experience Maker, Dan shares how companies can transform everyday interactions into powerful brand moments. The conversation dives into Dan’s WISER framework - a tactical approach to designing experiences that customers can’t help but talk about.

Together, they explore how CX isn't just a department but a company-wide mindset, and Dan offers real-world examples of how tiny improvements can drive major business outcomes. From eliminating website friction to activating back-office teams as CX advocates, this episode is packed with practical wisdom on making customer experience a core business driver. A must-listen for CX leaders looking to move from theory to tangible impact.

Guest Bio

Dan Gingiss is an international keynote speaker, author, and former Fortune 200 executive with over two decades of experience in customer experience and marketing. His career spans leadership roles at Discover, McDonald’s, and Humana, and he is the author of two influential books: Becoming the Experience Maker and Winning at Social Customer Care. Dan is also the co-host of the award-winning podcast Experience This! and a respected voice in CX thought leadership, known for his actionable WISER framework that helps brands become truly memorable.

Takeaways

• CX is a shared responsibility, not just the job of one department.
• Even back-office teams impact customer experience.
• Immersing executives in their own customer journeys reveals critical friction points.
• Eliminating small annoyances (like unnecessary form fields) can massively boost conversions.
• A WISER experience is: Witty, Immersive, Shareable, Extraordinary, and Responsive.
• Ordinary experiences are opportunities waiting to be improved.
• Business cases for CX improvements should tie directly to ROI or cost savings.
• Listening to earnings calls can help CX teams align with company priorities.
• Brands like Chewy and Zappos win customer loyalty by showing empathy and over-delivering.
• Pricing changes (like tariffs) should be transparently communicated to customers.
• Responsive service during tough times builds lasting loyalty.
• CX transformation is not a one-time project—it’s a daily mindset.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Dan Gingiss

01:20 The mindset shift: CX is everyone’s job

04:36 The cashless restaurant case study

08:22 Executives must become their own customers

10:13 Removing friction in digital onboarding

14:18 How to scale CX beyond the low-hanging fruit

16:30 Daily CX improvements over giant transformations

20:23 Linking CX to financial ROI

25:04 Why CX teams struggle to speak business language

29:53 The WISER framework unpacked

42:41 When not to apply the WISER framework

46:19 Leadership buy-in and prioritization

47:08 Navigating pricing and tariffs in CX

51:19 Brands that have your back build loyalty

53:17 Chewy: A masterclass in emotional CX

55:34 Where to find Dan Gingiss

LinkedIn

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Journey Mapping is Dead. What comes next?

Journey maps are like blueprints without builders. Beautiful and insightful - but ultimately useless unless someone owns the outcome.

In this video, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) breaks down why most customer journey maps fail to drive measurable impact - and introduces the shift from static maps to living systems of journey management.

If you’ve ever spent months building journeys that never get used, this one’s for you.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why over 80% of journey maps fail - and what to do about it

• Why beautiful maps on walls don’t drive change without ownership and accountability

• The life cycle of a journey map - and why it usually ends in failure

• What journey management really means

• Three steps to move from mapping to managing

• Why insight > alignment > action is the real path to customer-centric outcomes

• How leading companies use journey governance to increase CX and operational efficiency

Join the conversation:

What’s one journey in your business that gets mapped - but never acted on?

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Explore Journey Management with TheyDo#JourneyMapping #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #TheyDo #CXLeadership #DigitalTransformation #CustomerJourney #MappingToManaging #Silos #DecisionSupport