What makes a life worth living? This question has animated great thinkers and faith traditions for millennia. Interestingly enough, in our time of rapid globalization, technological advancement, and material abundance, we often seem more unmoored from our conception of the self and its relation to the world than ever before.

Our guest on this episode, Miroslav Volf, has spent his life wrestling with this question of questions and helping others to do the same. Volf is a professor of theology at Yale Divinity School and founding director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture, and his work explores the intersections of faith, identity, and public life. He is the author of more than 10 books, including the bestselling Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most (2023), based on one of the most popular courses at Yale University, which he co-teaches. The book, an inquiry into the nature of human flourishing, invites readers to consider wisdom drawn from various religious, philosophical, and literary traditions. He challenges the often superficial metrics of happiness promoted by modern society, urging readers to reflect deeply on the kind of life they want to lead — one that is not just pleasurable or successful by conventional standards, but that is positively shaped by adversity, contemplation, and interconnectedness.

In our conversation, we discuss how growing up as the son of a Pentecostal minister in Former Yugoslavia influenced Volf's relationship with Christian theology, why faith is a “comfortably difficult” thing, why “finding your authentic self” is a problematic concept in modern culture, how social media, divisive political currents, and the relentless drive for productivity distract us from what matters most, and the nobility in pursuing a richer, more intentioned, and just life.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

3:12 - What Volf’s work as a systematic theologian entails, and key childhood experiences that shaped his relationship with faith

12:18 - The philosophical basis for the Yale class that inspired the book Life Worth Living 

20:23 - Why Volf uses Smokey Bear as a representation of the pursuit of a meaningful life

26:53 - Shifting the focus of life from personal desires toward the quest to live by “truth”

40:38 - The inherent challenge in shifting focus away from “I, Me, and Mine”

45:49 - How the search for a meaningful life relates to the experiences of a medical professional

51:42 - Advice for how to add philosophical practices to a busy modern life

Miroslav Volf is the author of 17 books, including Life Worth Living (2023)

Past episodes discussed in this episode:

Episode 95: Shaping a Soul, Building a Self | William Deresiewicz

Episode 21: Pain, Pleasure, and Finding Balance | Anna Lembke, MD

Visit www.TheDoctorsArt.com for transcripts of all episodes. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Most people shudder at the idea of an infectious disease outbreak — patients stricken with a mysterious illness, hospitals overflowing, and cities going into lockdown. But for Syra Madad, DHSc, MSc , MCP, rushing into such a scenario, donned in a hazmat suit, to control the chaos has been a dream since childhood. Today, she is an epidemiologist, biosecurity advisor, and a pathogen preparedness expert who serves as Senior Director of the System-Wide Special Pathogens Program at New York City Health and Hospitals, which operates the municipal health care system of New York City. 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Madad shares what excites her about the work of infectious disease control, why she believes we have emerged from the Covid-19 pandemic worse prepared for the next pandemic, how scientists and doctors can better communicate with the public in the absence of clear data, the importance of utilizing trusted messengers in the community to fully deploy the power of public health, and more. 

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:09 - How a movie led Dr. Madad to become an infectious disease preparedness expert

6:54 - An overview of Biosafety levels (BSL)  

9:30 - Moments in Dr. Madad’s career when disease containment went well and moments when it did not. 

12:27 - How Dr. Madad mentally and emotionally manages the heavy weight of often-lethal infectious diseases

18:05 - Dr. Madad’s opinion on how COVID-19 policies were handled 

24:02 - Dr. Madad’s personal thoughts on the potential origins of COVID-19 

26:55 - What concerns Dr. Madad most about future pandemics and how we can make positive steps toward recovering trust in science

35:40 - Dr. Madad’s advice for those considering a career in public health or infectious diseases 

Dr. Syra Madad appears in the Netflix special Pandemic: How to Prevent an Outbreak.

Dr. Syra Madad can be found on Twitter/X at @syramadad.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Most of us take free will for granted — from the biggest of life decisions to choosing an ice cream flavor, we are generally capable of freely deciding how to think and how to behave without outside influence. But Robert Sapolsky believes our decisions cannot be disentangled from our genetics, environment, and neurobiology. In other words, to him, free will does not exist. 

Dr. Sapolsky, a neuroscientist and primatologist at Stanford University, is a leading thinker on the biology of stress, human behavior, neurodegenerative diseases, and the science of free will and determinism. He is the author of multiple bestselling books, including Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers (1994), Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst (2017), and Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will (2023). His works have been featured widely in the popular press, from National Geographic to The New York Times. 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Sapolsky presents his arguments against free will, along the way making detours through chaos and complexity theory, philosophy, ethics, and neuroscience. He shows how subtracting free will from the way culture thinks about crime, mental health, and human development have resulted in more humane health, justice, and educational systems. Finally, we contemplate together what human flourishing even means in the context of a life without free will. 

His ideas have profound implications not just on our society, but also on our understanding of human nature, challenging our perceptions and provoking deep reflection on how we navigate the choices in our lives.

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

3:08 - How Dr. Sapolsky chose a career straddling both neuroscience and primatology

5:04 - The moment when Dr. Sapolsky realized he did not believe humans have free will

16:16 - How society becomes more humane when free will is factored out

23:29 - The deep implications that free will and determinism could have on criminology 

34:13 - How a belief in a lack of free will can negatively affect motivation on a societal scale

43:11 - What does human flourishing look like in a world without free will? 

48:07 - The best moments in life in which to utilize this understanding of free will 

Dr. Robert Sapolsky has authored numerous publications, a full bibliography of his works can be found here. 

Dr. Robert Sapolsky can be found on Instagram at @robert.sapolsky.

Works and past episodes discussed:

What’s Expected of Us by Ted Chiang 

Episode 79: Transcendence in the Age of Science | Alan Lightman, PhD

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

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On New Year's Eve of 2020, at the age of 29, Katie Coleman was diagnosed with metastatic renal oncocytoma, a type of kidney cancer so rare that she is the only known case in the United States and one of only a handful around the world. The sheer uniqueness of her situation resulted in a prolonged course of prognostic and therapeutic uncertainty. Thanks to the work of oncologists at the National Cancer Institute and MD Anderson Cancer Center, Katie is now in remission. Today, she is a patient advocate who passionately supports other patients through their cancer journeys. In this episode, Katie joins us to share her incredible story, her experiences with grief, uncertainty, and hope, and her lessons learned on finding joy and meaning in life.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• Katie’s backstory and the events leading up to her diagnosis - 1:50
• The experience of being diagnosed with one of the rarest cancers in the world - 3:58
• How Katie’s oncologists discussed this unusual diagnosis with her - 10:42
• The experience of receiving treatment with the goal of prolonging life, rather than curing the disease - 13:06
• How co-host Dr. Tyler Johnson communicates issues of serious illness with his patients - 15:38
• How the uncertainty around a terminal cancer prognosis impacts the way patients approach living their lives - 22:21
• How Katie’s changing prognoses have altered her life plans - 28:53
• The wisdom on living well one gains from facing a life-limiting illness - 34:32
• Lessons on hope in the face of uncertainty - 39:55
• The various ways clinicians can open up and connect with their patients on a human level - 44:14

Katie’s story has been profiled by the National Cancer Institute, NBC News, and the Today Show.

You can follow Katie on Twitter @KayDAustin

Katie is also an active content creator and patient advocate on Youtube, TikTok, and Instagram.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Technological advancements have enabled us to accomplish medical miracles through novel medical devices, algorithms, and digital tools. At the same time, the exponential entanglement of tech with healthcare has led many clinicians to feel disconnected from the human element of medicine. Here to discuss this conundrum is Bryant Lin, MD, MEng, the director of Medicine and the Muse, the medical humanities program at Stanford Medical School, and a mechanical engineer by training who focuses on medical device development. Dr. Lin also conducts research in Asian population health and is the cofounder of Stanford’s Consultative Medicine Clinic, which evaluates patients with medical mysteries. In today’s episode, Dr. Lin shares his unique perspective at the crossroads of technology and the humanities, and discusses how storytelling can be a powerful instrument to keep physicians grounded in what truly matters for their patients.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• How an early interest in engineering led Dr. Lin to medicine - 1:42
• A poignant letter Dr. Lin received from one of his long-term aging patients that reaffirms why his medical career is meaningful - 4:10
• A discussion of how medical bureaucratization has stolen away much of the human connection that underpins fulfilling medical work - 7:39
• How Medicine and the Muse, the medical humanities program at Stanford, helps clinicians connect with the meaning in medicine - 12:40
• What Dr. Lin hopes to achieve through teaching medical humanities to future clinicians - 25:45
• How storytelling helps healthcare providers better connect with their patients - 27:28
• How Dr. Lin integrates storytelling into medical device design, and why it is imperative to not allow technology to distance physicians from their patients - 31:24

Dr. Lin manages the forthcoming digital medical humanities newsletter Panacea Health. 

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Rana Awdish, MD was on the last day of her critical care medicine training when her life changed forever. Seven months pregnant at the time, Dr. Awdish abruptly found herself in a life threatening crisis when a previously undiagnosed liver tumor suddenly ruptured. She was rushed to the ICU of her own hospital, where she came unimaginably close to death multiple times. Despite this tragic event, she survived thanks to the incredible work of her medical team. Today, Dr. Awdish is the author of the acclaimed memoir In Shock, which recounts her time as an ICU patient. She is also the Medical Director of the Pulmonary Hypertension Program at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, Michigan, and Medical Director of Care Experience for the Henry Ford Health System. In this episode, she shares what she has learned from her experiences about compassion, hope, and improving empathetic communication in health care. 

In this episode, you will hear about:

• How a family ailment inspired Dr. Awdish to pursue a medical career - 2:10
• An riveting personal account of the catastrophic medical event that befell Dr. Awdish - 4:17
• A discussion of the learning curve in medicine and the need to create safe spaces for physicians to admit ignorance - 12:13
• The fascinating and unsettling experience of being a highly-trained physician and a critically-ill patient at the same time, and how this experience showed her the way our current medical culture disempowers patients - 15:17
• Dr. Awdish’s reflections on the antagonistic environment of her prolonged hospital stay - 20:19
• A discussion of hope, concept often misunderstood by physicians as running counter to realistic expectations - 27:37
• The intense and unexpected role of spirituality in Dr. Awdish’s critical care experience - 32:14
• Navigating the medical profession while confronting suffering and not burning out - 34:37
• A discussion of Dr. Awdish’s profound essay The Shape of the Shore about the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic in Detroit - 37:36
• Dr. Awdish’s advice to new physicians and students to help them stay connected to their work and to see the humanity in their patients - 44:33

Dr. Rana Awdish is the author of:

In Shock: My Journey from Death to Recovery and the Redemptive Power of Hope, a memoir about the harrowing events discussed in this episode and the revelations she attained by going through them.

The Shape of the Shore, an essay about working in the ICU during the first months of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Johnson mentions the essay The Learning Curve by Dr. Atul Gawande.

Follow Dr. Awdish on Twitter @RanaAwdish.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Imagine showing up for work every day for a year, knowing full well that each day you risk contracting a potentially devastating disease with unknown long-term consequences. That's exactly what Thomas Fisher, MD went through, as he documents vividly in his recent book, The Emergency: A Year of Healing and Heartbreak in a Chicago E.R., which delves into what it was like fighting COVID-19 on the frontlines in 2020. Dr. Fisher, an emergency physician at the University of Chicago Medical Center, former healthcare executive, and former White House Fellow, has dedicated his life to caring for his community, the black population of Chicago's South Side. In this episode, he recounts harrowing stories from the emergency room, gives an impassioned critique of a health care system with too little space for doctors to provide the care their patients need, and shares a renewed vision of healthcare as a foundation of social justice.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• What motivated Dr. Fisher to write his book, The Emergency, a riveting first-hand account of the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic - 2:09
• The uncertainty and terror physicians faced at very beginning of the pandemic - 5:29
• An intimate picture of how emergency physicians approached the first COVID-19 patients - 9:45
• How an upbringing in Chicago’s South Side propelled Dr. Fisher into a career in healthcare, and how the reality of inequitable systems has shaped his medical practice - 13:10
• A discussion of the concept of “heroism” in the context of frontline healthcare workers - 20:35
• How Dr. Fisher used letters addressed to patients as a narrative device in his book to explore social injustices that affect individual health - 30:50
• Dr. Fisher’s reflections on maintaining a connection to the meaning of his work despite the seemingly insurmountable systemic challenges that he recognizes - 35:57
• Practical advice for clinicians on making space for patient care within a rushed healthcare environment - 42:28

Dr. Fisher is the author of The Emergency: A Year of Healing and Heartbreak in a Chicago E.R.

Follow Dr. Fisher on Twitter @TFisherMD.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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What is it like to comfort patients in the moments before they surrender consciousness to undergo surgery? What can the humanities teach us about being present for a patient when they are at their most vulnerable? As an anesthesiologist and founding director of Medicine and the Muse, Stanford Medicine’s health humanities program, Audrey Shafer, MD has spent her career pondering and addressing these questions. In this episode, Dr. Shafer discusses how her exploits in the humanities have shaped her career in medicine, gives us an intimate and vivid picture of the vital work anesthesiologists do, and shares what her recent personal experiences with cancer have taught her about what it means to truly care for patients.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• How growing up in an artistic household initially pushed Dr. Shafer away from the arts and toward a medical career - 1:51
• Why Dr. Shafer chose to become an anesthesiologist - 5:51
• Dr. Shafer’s discovery of the medical humanities and how she would later create the first program of its type at Stanford Medicine - 8:57
• A discussion of what the medical humanities are and a defense of its value - 12:00
• Reflections on the profound privilege of being an anesthesiologist and a medical educator - 17:45
• A behind-the-scenes look at an anesthesiologist’s work - 25:02
• Dr. Shafer’s recent cancer diagnosis and her treatment journey - 34:29
• Advice for clinicians and medical students about seeing patients’ illnesses within the greater context of their lives - 41:15

Follow Dr. Shafer on Twitter @AudreyShafer.

You can peruse the Literature Arts & Medicine magazine here.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Born with hemophilia in a time before effective therapies existed and having experienced treatment complications including hepatitis C and HIV, Eric Winer, MD spent much of his childhood and young adulthood in and out of the hospital. Today, he is the Director of Yale Cancer Center and President of the American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO), the largest organization of clinicians caring for cancer patients. An internationally renowned expert in breast cancer, his research has immensely impacted how breast cancer is now treated. In this episode, Dr. Winer shares his path to oncology and his insights from being a lifelong patient on stigma, compassion, and empathy.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• How growing up with hemophilia led Dr. Winer to the field of medicine - 1:50
• The patient that cemented Dr. Winer’s dedication to oncology as his life’s work - 7:55
• Dr. Winer’s reflections on how his experiences as a patient shape his work as a doctor - 12:52
• Facing the reality of caring for patients with terminal illness - 18:21
• How Dr. Winer grounds the care he provides in the humanism of each patient - 23:49
• Dr. Winer’s mission and vision as president of the American Society of Clinical Oncology - 25:49
• How leading by example is critical to cultivating a strong, respectful, and collaborative institutional culture - 31:02
• Dr. Winer’s advice to medical students and new clinicians on maintaining a connection to meaningful work - 33:12

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Our modern world grants us unprecedented access to high-reward, high-dopamine stimuli—not just drugs, but also food, news, shopping, sex, gaming, social media, gambling, and more. But psychiatrist Anna Lembke, MD argues that this society-wide overindulgence in pleasure threatens to lead us to deeper pain. Dr. Lembke is the director of the Addiction Medicine Service at Stanford Medicine and is the author of two bestselling books, Dopamine Nation and Drug Dealer, MD. As one of the first doctors to sound the alarm on the opioid epidemic in America, she's an expert on the issue and has advised policymakers at the highest levels of government. In this episode, Dr. Lembke describes her work treating all kinds of addiction, discusses her deep concern with the overconsumption of pleasure in our culture, and shares what we can all do to renew meaning and connectedness in our lives through balancing pain and pleasure.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• What first drew Dr. Lembke to a medical career and how she initially discovered psychiatry - 2:13
• Why Dr. Lembke dedicates herself to addiction medicine, and how her philosophy can help others find meaningful work - 9:16
• The historical shift, with the advent of the opioid epidemic, to understanding addiction as a medical condition instead of a moral or personal failing - 12:53
• Reframing addiction as a medical diagnosis and approaching patients facing addictive disorders with compassion - 17:58
• How flaws in contemporary medical practice and misaligned incentives for doctors contributed to the opioid crisis - 24:15
• A discussion of Dr. Lemke’s book Dopamine Nation, including how easy access to pleasure causes addictagenic responses in nearly every aspect of our lives - 29:32
• How humans can reconnect with meaning despite living in a culture that often substitutes meaning with cheap pleasure - 34:15
• Dr. Lembke’s advice to all clinicians for how to better connect with patients - 45:20

Tyler refers to the essay “I Used to be a Human Being” by Andrew Sullivan.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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What happens when miscommunication between a doctor and patient leads to intractable conflict? What happens when a patient requests an intervention a doctor does not feel ethically comfortable with? In the toughest of situations, doctors turn to the clinical ethicist for help. David Magnus, PhD, an internationally regarded leader in clinical ethics, is the director of the Stanford University Center for Biomedical Ethics, co-founder and editor-in-chief of the American Journal of Bioethics, and former president of the Association of Bioethics Program Directors. In this episode, Dr. Magnus shares lessons learned from the most ethically ambiguous scenarios he has managed, the importance of ethical thinking skills for all clinicians, and the difficulties inherent in clinician-patient communication.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• What it’s like to be a clinical ethicist, handling the tough ethical questions doctors call on them to resolve - 5:05
• How an ethicist determines what is “right” in a given circumstance - 9:10
• How Dr. Magnus’ deals with patients who refuse to accept his recommendations for care - 11:33
• Dr. Magnus’s journey from professor of philosophy to leading thinker on medical ethics - 14:00
• How the intense specialization of modern medicine may be contributing to clinician burnout - 23:31
• How misinterpretation of language can be a major barrier to good health care - 32:25
• Why clinicians use “hedge language” and “shield attributions” and how they can dramatically alter a patient’s understanding of their situation - 40:46
• Dr. Magnus’s advice to new clinicians on cultivating skills in ethical thinking and responsible patient communication - 50:45

Learn more about the American Society for Bioethics and Humanities here.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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As former CEO of the Permanente Medical Group, Robert Pearl, MD was responsible for the work of 50,000 healthcare workers and the medical care of 5 million Americans through Kaiser Permanente hospitals across the country. A leading expert on healthcare management and strategy, Dr. Pearl is the author of two bestselling books, “Mistreated: Why We Think We’re Getting Good Healthcare–And Why We’re Usually Wrong” and “Uncaring: How the Culture of Medicine Kills Doctors and Patients,” a regular contributor to Forbes, and the host of several popular medical podcasts. He is a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon, clinical professor at Stanford Medicine, and lecturer at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. In this episode, Dr. Pearl shares his thoughts on why American healthcare is failing not only patients but also physicians, and what we can do to address inherent problems in the culture of medicine.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• Dr. Pearl’s journey to a career in plastic surgery - 2:13
• Grappling with complications that arise during surgery - 9:40
• Dr. Pearl’s transition from surgeon to CEO of the Permanente Medical Group - 12:49
• The mission that Dr. Pearl brought to his role as CEO and how he implemented that mission - 17:21
• How Dr. Pearl paved a path for increasing both the quality of care and physician satisfaction, while keeping costs low, and why so often these goals seem at odds with each other - 20:32
• The toxic culture of denial in medicine and why it is killing doctors and patients - 27:45
• How status and compensation disparity contributes to physician burnout, and what to do about it - 35:47
• Dr. Pearl’s administrative strategy that led Kaiser Permanente to much success during his tenure as CEO - 43:08
• Dr. Pearl’s advice to physicians on how to stay connected and empowered in their careers - 46:38

Dr. Robert Pearl is:

• Author of two books: Mistreated: Why We Think We’re Getting Good Healthcare - And Why We’re Usually Wrong; and Uncaring: How the Culture of Medicine Kills Doctors & Patients, with all proceeds going to Doctors Without Borders
• A frequent contributor to Forbes Magazine 
• The host of two podcasts: Fixing Healthcare and Coronavirus: The Truth

Find more information at RobertPearlMD.com or follow Dr. Pearl on Twitter @RobertPearlMD

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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As the real-life inspiration for and medical consultant to the popular TV show "House, M.D.," journalist-turned-physician Lisa Sanders, MD has played quite the role in elevating the prestige and drama of medical diagnosis. For the past 20 years, Dr. Sanders has written a column in the New York Times titled "Diagnosis," in which she discusses bizarre and fascinating medical cases. In 2019, this column was turned into a Netflix documentary series of the same name. She has garnered much acclaim for presenting the process of diagnosis as a detective story, rather than the rote recall of a set of facts and figures. Dr. Sanders joins us in this episode to speak about her remarkable career path, her work, and how storytelling contributes to patient healing.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• Dr. Sanders’ career prior to medicine as a TV journalist and how it influenced her path as a physician - 1:59
• Dr. Sanders’ revelation about diagnosis as detective work and how she developed her passion for it - 4:59
• Being part of the handful of “weirdos” that Yale Medical School admits every year, and combating imposter syndrome - 7:14
• Dr. Sanders’ reflections on the how money-making impacts physician burnout and how the burden of choice in medical career paths may lead to a sense of disconnect - 12:39
• Medical diagnosis itself as a kind of healing, allowing patients to contextualize their circumstances within their personal narratives - 18:05
• Dr. Sanders’ best-practices on communicating with patients - 29:03
• The methodology of solving and describing medical mysteries - 32:10
• Challenges and opportunities in eliciting and listening to patient stories - 42:16
• Dr. Sanders’ hope that the human dimension of medicine does not get displaced by the technical dimension, and why storytelling is integral to patient healing - 46:41

Dr. Lisa Sanders is the author of several books, including 

Every Patient Tells a Story: Medical Mysteries and the Art of Diagnosis (2009), and

Diagnosis: Solving the Most Baffling Medical Mysteries (2019)

She writes a column for the New York Times called Diagnosis, which can be found archived here

Follow Dr. Sanders on Twitter @LisaSandersmd

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Conventionally, we are taught that evolution implies there is no ultimate purpose to our existence, that life lacks inherent meaning — we are the product of countless intricate molecular and genetic accidents. And to many, evolution leaves little room for, and perhaps even contradicts, the existence of a deity. 

However, our guest on this episode, Samuel Wilkinson, MD, a professor of psychiatry at Yale University, thinks there is another way to look at evolution. Drawing from an array of disciplines ranging from evolutionary biology to cognitive science, Dr. Wilkinson provides a framework for evolution suggesting not only that there is an overarching purpose to our existence, but what that purpose is. He presents this framework in his 2024 book, Purpose: What Evolution and Human Nature Imply about the Meaning of Our Existence. 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Wilkinson shares how an existential crisis during medical school led him down the path of exploring the ways evolution can be reconciled with fundamental questions and answers about life's meaning; how navigating the dual potential of human nature — pulling us between selfishness and altruism, aggression and cooperation — is key to understanding our purpose; why evolution does not exclude the possibility of existence of a god or gods; the importance of relationships in living fulfilling lives; the role of free will in the choice between good and evil; and more. 

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

3:37 - How a drive to understand human nature drove Dr. Wilkinson to leave his engineering studies and pursue a career as a psychiatrist. 

4:44 - The scope of Dr. Wilkinson’s work at Yale 

7:13 - What studying depression has taught Dr. Wilkinson about human nature 

9:00 - How Dr. Wilkinson views the connection between evolution and God 

24:00 - How the central argument of Dr. Wilkinson’s book differs from intelligent design

26:41 - Dr. Wilkinson’s view of selfishness in human nature 

37:49 - The deeper meaning that Dr. Wilkinson sees within the biological patterns of evolution 

39:04 - The validity of moral relativism

43:42 - “The Rider and the Elephant” as a metaphor for human nature 

45:43 - Dr. Wilkinson’s thoughts on free will 

55:15 - How marriage can provide a cornerstone to building “a good life” 

58:10 - The way in which Dr. Wilkinson’s faith fits into his personal view of human nature 

1:04:42 - How Dr. Wilkinson brings these principles into his clinical practice 

Dr. Samuel Wilkinson is the author of Purpose: What Evolution and Human Nature Imply about the Meaning of Our Existence (2024). 

Works and Individuals Discussed:

The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins

Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will by Robert Sapolsky

Michael Behe and the concept of intelligent design 

Free Will by Sam Harris

When actress and playwright Ellen Dunphy — then a robustly-healthy 33-year old — first met co-host Dr. Tyler Johnson in early 2020, they were filming an educational video teaching doctors how to discuss terminal illnesses with patients. Six months later, in a twist of fate, upon receiving a terminal diagnosis of gastric cancer, Ellen learned that Dr. Johnson would be her oncologist — for real this time. In this poignant episode, Ellen candidly shares her experiences from the moment she received her diagnosis to how she has subsequently grappled with grief, and discusses how this has fueled the creation of a play about her cancer journey. This is a rare occasion of conversation and reflection between a dying patient and her doctor on what matters most in medicine.

We note with sadness that Ellen passed away peacefully on July 4, 2022, surrounded by people who loved her.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• The circumstances that first brought Ellen and Dr. Johnson together - 1:38
• Ellen and Tyler’s second meeting, under drastically different yet parallel circumstances - 5:03
• What it was like for both Ellen and Dr. Johnson at the moment her diagnosis was delivered - 7:24
• What was surprising to Ellen about going through cancer treatment - 13:24
• Ellen’s advice to medical professionals in light of her own treatment journey - 16:40
• Ellen’s reflections on the process of writing her play about receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis - 21:12
• The meaning of medicine, as seen by Ellen - 27:45
• Ellen’s advice to all patients on the importance of advocating for oneself - 29:00

Ellen’s one-woman play “Imaginary Endings” about facing her cancer diagnosis can be viewed on YouTube.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Essayist Emily Maloney offers a wholly unique vantage point when it comes to American healthcare. At 19 years old, a suicide attempt landed Emily in the hospital for an extended stay, which then saddled her with a massive 5-figure load of unexpected medical bills. In an attempt to pay off her debt, Emily became an emergency room technician and began working in the very same system that was crippling her financial life. In today’s episode, Emily discusses her experiences as both patient and caregiver, and shares her insights on the true cost – financial and personal – that the flawed US medical system exerts on everyone involved, from patients to physicians.  

In this episode, you will hear about:

• Emily’s motivation for writing her recently published book of essays, “Cost of Living”  - 2:33
• How finding herself in suffocating medical debt changed Emily’s life  - 10:24
• Why the true costs of medical interventions are impossible to know under the current system -  18:20
• What drew Emily into the medical profession despite her negative experiences as a patient - 24:43
• Emily’s ideas on how healthcare in the US should be reformed - 37:28

Emily is the author of the essay collection “Cost of Living”

Follow Emily on Twitter @emilyfmaloney

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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As the founding medical director of Palliative Care Services at Stanford Hospital, Stephanie Harman, MD is no stranger to death and grief. In this episode, she shares the story of how she discovered palliative care through the death of someone close and what it looks like to transform what are often the moments of greatest patient suffering into moments of profound meaning and humanism. In addition to her palliative care work, Dr. Harman is a clinical associate professor of medicine, a co-chair of the Stanford Health Care Ethics Committee, and Associate Chair for the Women in Medicine initiative in Stanford’s Department of Medicine.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• How PBS, zebrafish, and comparative literature influenced Dr. Harman’s decision to enter medicine - 3:08
• How the death of someone close propelled Dr. Harman into palliative care and informs her philosophical focus on honoring a patient’s values and wishes - 8:09
• Why Dr. Harman felt drawn to a medical specialty that so often deals with the most painful part of medicine: witnessing patients dying - 15:53
• How Dr. Harman had to advocate for the legitimacy and dignity of palliative medicine, despite being told it was “a waste of her career” - 19:18
• How Dr. Harman processes the emotional weight of her chosen field with preventive and supportive measures - 22:20
• A discussion of how the COVID-19 pandemic has forced public and personal conversations about grief to the forefront - 27:24
• Dr. Harman’s vision for the future of medicine, and specifically the broader adoption of palliative care services - 33:33
• Dr. Harman’s advice to new medical professionals and students - 38:49

You can follow Dr. Harman on Twitter @Steph_HarmanMD

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Victoria Sweet, MD is a prize-winning author, medical historian, and professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. She is the author of two bestselling books: “God's Hotel,” which details her time as a doctor in the last almshouse in the United States, and “Slow Medicine,” a memoir that outlines her approach to medicine as both a craft and art. In this episode, Dr. Sweet discusses why she reframes the doctor-patient relationship from one of a mechanic repairing a machine, to one of a gardener tending to her plants. Through vivid stories of her remarkable experiences, she illustrates how combining insights of premodern medicine with advances of modern health care can lead to better healing.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• How the writings of Carl Jung drew Dr. Sweet to medicine - 2:18
• The story of how a resourceful nurse and a stubborn patient taught Dr. Sweet what it meant to be “a real doctor” - 9:36
• The origin of the Slow Medicine movement and how it shapes Dr. Sweet’s approach to patient care - 16:19
• The Philosophy of the Minimum and why examining side effects and placebo groups is critical to delivering the best patient care - 22:03
• Dr. Sweet’s time at Laguna Honda Hospital, the “last almshouse in the United States”, and what she learned about healing from the slower pace of that hospital - 27:07
• How studying medieval figures like Hildegard of Bingen influenced Dr. Sweet’s appreciation for premodern medicine and how she pairs it with modern medicine - 33:58
• Dr. Sweet’s advice for clinicians facing the mounting challenges of the modern corporate medical landscape - 40:02

Dr. Sweet is the author of God’s Hotel: A Doctor, a Hospital, and a Pilgrimage to the Heart of Medicine and Slow Medicine: The Way to Healing.

Dr. Sweet discusses the influence of Carl Jung’s memoir Memories, Dreams, and Reflections

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Pamela Kunz, MD is the Director of the Center for Gastrointestinal Cancers at Yale Medicine. For 19 years, she was at Stanford University, most recently serving as Director of the Stanford Neuroendocrine Tumor Program. But in 2020, Dr. Kunz announced her departure, citing years of gender discrimination, microaggressions, and harassment. In this episode, Dr. Kunz opens up about the challenges she faced, how she overcame them, and how she now taps into a clear-eyed awareness of her values to lead health care settings that empower underrepresented individuals and to advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion in academic medicine.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• How Dr. Kunz’s science-filled childhood led her to a career in medicine, and why she took on the daunting task of treating cancer patients - 2:21
• What it is like to build relationships with patients who have life-limiting cancer diagnoses - 7:25
• Dr. Kunz’s past struggles working in a toxic environment due to constant disrespect and denigration based on her gender - 12:18
• How leadership coach Rebecca Merrill (our guest on Episode 7) helped Dr. Kunz realize why she was so unhappy in her work and what she could do about it - 16:15
• The development of Dr. Kunz as an advocate of diversity, equity, and inclusion in academic medicine - 18:48
• Dr. Kunz’s advice for women and other underrepresented individuals going into medicine on preparing against potential hostility in their chosen careers, and how to create a “tapestry” of mentors - 22:01
• How Dr. Kunz addresses her own burnout, and how seeing oneself as an advocate can be a tool to self-empowerment - 32:25 
• The advice Dr. Kunz would give to her past self if she could go back in time - 41:02

Dr. Kunz mentions the book “Dare to Lead” by Brené Brown as being especially transformational in her journey to overcome challenges in the workplace.

Follow Dr. Kunz on Twitter @PamelaKunzMD

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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A former dean of Stanford Medical School and past leader at the National Cancer Institute, Phil Pizzo, MD is as renowned for his groundbreaking research on childhood cancers and immunodeficiency as he is for his promotion of medical education. He is also a tireless scholar who continues pursuing knowledge and purpose deep into what many would consider the retirement years. In this episode, Dr. Pizzo shares what caring for children with some of the most harrowing diseases has taught him about courage, and how his creation of Stanford’s Distinguished Careers Institute epitomizes his vision for longevity and philosophy of lifelong learning.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• How Dr. Pizzo’s love of learning and objection to the Vietnam War led him to a career in medicine - 2:00
• Teddy, a “boy in the bubble” whom Dr. Pizzo cared for and who profoundly shaped Dr. Pizzo’s career and life philosophy - 5:54
• Leaning into the work of treating severe diseases, despite the realities of the deep suffering involved - 14:46
• The guiding principles behind Dr. Pizzo’s time in leadership at the National Institutes of Health, Harvard Medical School, and Stanford Medical School - 20:01
• How Dr. Pizzo manages to maintain tranquility of mind and buoyancy of spirit over his long career, and why he created the Distinguished Careers Institute - 22:51
• The surprising next step in Dr. Pizzo’s scholarly journey - 30:42
• Dr. Pizzo’s advice to young people about the value of a habit of lifelong learning - 34:40

Read more about Teddy DeVita, the “boy in the bubble” whom Dr. Pizzo cared for, in this Washington Post article.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Abraham Verghese, MD is a prolific writer and revered physician who has deeply contemplated the philosophical underpinnings of the practice of medicine. He is renowned as an advocate for the importance of bedside examination and physical diagnosis, and his best-selling books probe the intricacies of human connection in the context of healthcare. In this episode, Dr. Verghese discusses how maintaining a literary life has impacted his approach to doctoring, why the human touch still matters for healing in our increasingly digital age, and his vision of the future of medicine.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• How Dr. Verghese’s love of literature influenced his decision to enter medicine  - 2:39
• Reflections on the challenges of contemporary medicine - 7:51
• How physical exams can be seen as a ritual for “reading the body like a book” - 10:07
• Dr. Verghese’s perspective on the future of doctor-patient relationships given the rise of telemedicine and other technologies - 20:36
• Balancing the need to connect with each patient for their treatment, while being responsible for so many at once - 26:23
• How the craft of writing relates to medicine for Dr. Verghese - 31:50
• The counterintuitive diagnostic efficiency of taking the time and care to meet patients where they are at - 35:45

Dr. Verghese is the author of three books:

My Own Country (1994) - traces the story of young Dr. Verghese in the mid-1980s in Johnson City, Tennessee, who began to treat patients with a then unknown disease, HIV.

The Tennis Partner (1999) - Dr. Verghese writes of his experience moving to El Paso in the midst of an unraveling marriage. There, he meets and becomes a mentor to David Smith, a medical resident at the hospital and a brilliant tennis player recovering from drug addiction.

Cutting for Stone (2009) - a novel about twin brothers, orphaned by their mother's death in childbirth and forsaken by their father.

The book that Dr. Verghese credits as having inspired him to pursue medicine is Of Human Bondage (1915), by William Somerset Maugham - Available for free 

Follow Dr. Verghese on Twitter @cuttingforstone and visit his website AbrahamVerghese.org.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Dean Winslow, MD has led an extraordinarily multifaceted career as an infectious disease specialist and former US Air Force colonel. In his pioneering work at the front lines of the AIDS epidemic, he headed one of the first HIV clinics in the country and created HIV treatments and diagnostics still used today. During his multiple deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq as a flight surgeon, he commanded field hospitals that treated military personnel and local civilians alike. As a long-time professor of medicine at Stanford, he has been a popular mentor to hundreds of medical professionals. In this episode, with his trademark cheerful and humble demeanor, Dr. Winslow shares the colorful, poignant, and amusing stories he has collected over his decades of service.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• Dr. Winslow’s personal path that led him to medicine and his initial work during the early days of the AIDS epidemic - 2:51
• How Dr. Winslow manages the emotional burden that comes with treating seriously ill patients with HIV - 20:24
• Dr. Winslow’s experiences in military medicine and how they have shaped his medical career - 25:31
• A humorous story on solving a tough infectious disease case through medical detective work - 32:09
• Dr. Winslow’s advice to medical trainees who may be struggling with burnout, and what improvements should be made to the healthcare system to take pressure off medical professionals - 36:51

A narrative essay by Dr. Winslow about his military medical career: Treating the Enemy.

Follow Dr. Winslow’s work at StanfordHealthcare.org

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Ira Byock, MD is a leading figure in hospice and palliative medicine, having developed many practices and tools that now define the specialty. For him, this profession is a continual pursuit of balancing the scientific and human aspects of medical care, to address patient well-being in a way that transcends conventional concepts of disease and illness. In this episode, Dr. Byock joins us to discuss how palliative medicine developed into what it is today, how viewing death as a normal part of human living can allow patients to create meaning at the end of life, and what all clinicians can learn from palliative care about good doctoring.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• Dr. Byock’s early work in family and rural medicine and the moral crisis that awakened him to the need for palliative medicine - 1:51
• Dr. Byock’s experiences in pioneering the nascent field of palliative medicine - 7:53
• Combating the prevailing notion that medicine is only about treating injuries and curing illnesses - 11:16
• A story about a dying patient and the extra mile Dr. Byock went for her, which solidified his belief in the power of palliative care - 17:05
• Reimagining our relationship to death, both from the clinician’s and patient’s perspectives - 24:10
• The Four Things that Matter Most - 31:19
• Lessons learned from patients experiencing the end of their lives - 35:52
• Dr. Byock’s advice to young medical professionals and students - 39:31

Connect with Dr. Byock on Twitter @IraByock.

Dr. Byock is the author of several books: 

Dying Well 

The Four Things that Matter Most

The Best Care Possible

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Adjoa Boateng, MD has always felt drawn to helping those at the margins of society. An intensivist and physician-writer at Stanford, Dr. Boateng has found language to be a crucial part of not only her clinical work, but of her art as well. In a medical specialty that can often be mired in technical jargon and dehumanizing shorthand, she champions an even greater importance on the choice of words physicians use as a critical aspect of care.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• Dr. Boateng’s career in helping individuals from marginalized populations - 1:51
• How she maintains a connection to the spiritual dimensions of medicine despite working in what can often be the most impersonal of medical settings, the ICU - 4:45
• Her reflection on a particularly transcendent moment with a patient approaching death - 7:21
• Making space for the sacred, even in the antiseptic rooms of a hospital - 9:57
• How she discovered her passion for narrative medicine and writing poetry - 15:40
• The importance of humanizing language, especially when talking to patients - 17:37
• The concept of “miracles” in medicine - 22:26
• The difficulties Dr. Boateng experienced during the COVID-19 pandemic as a new attending and new mother - 26:17
• The intense scrutiny she has experienced as a black woman working in medicine - 30:39
• A poem Dr. Boateng has been writing for her son about his birth - 35:23

Connect with Dr. Boateng on Twitter @BoatengMD.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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For Mark Lewis, MD, cancer has defined his entire life. Growing up, he witnessed his father's valiant struggle with cancer before it eventually ended his life. While still in medical training, he not only developed pancreatic cancer but also discovered the culprit. Multiple endocrine neoplasia type 1, an inherited syndrome that drastically increases one's risk of cancers, runs in his family. So now, as a father, he guides his son in making sense of a life burdened with that risk. What’s more, as an oncologist, Dr. Lewis has also dedicated his professional life to understanding and treating cancers of the gastrointestinal system. 

In this deeply personal conversation filled with pathos, wisdom, and hope, Dr. Lewis shares how he learned to cope with the rage he felt towards cancer in his early years, the solace he finds in religion and how he tactfully approaches matters of spirituality with his patients, how he was fundamentally transformed after undergoing the daunting Whipple surgical procedure, the wonder he feels when considering the remarkable progress science has made in cancer therapies, and how he channels his personal experiences to connect with patients. 

This is an episode that paints a portrait of grace, resilience, and courage in the face of suffering and loss, and it reminds us to search for the dignity that is inherent in the act of caring for another person.

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:43 - How watching his father deal with cancer led Dr. Lewis to a career in medicine.

7:04 - How Dr. Lewis managed the grief and rage that came with his father’s passing. 

11:10 - How the speed of medical innovation drives Dr. Lewis’ optimism. 

19:51 - The role that faith plays in Dr. Lewis’ work and in his relationships with patients.

29:07 - Dr. Lewis’ experience as a cancer patient and how it has informed his work as an oncologist. 

39:21 - The ethical challenges involved in administering toxic treatments in oncology. 

42:24 - The deeper meaning that Dr. Lewis has found through his experiences at the intersection of science and faith. 

48:57 - Dr. Lewis’ advice for empathizing and connecting with patients. 

Dr. Mark Lewis can be found on Twitter/X at @marklewismd.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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A crisis of burnout is rippling through the medical community; physicians are experiencing ever-increasing mental, physical, and social strain while the healthcare system offers little assistance with that burden. For leadership coach Rebecca Merrill, this crisis is a calling. For years, she has been coaching senior leaders in healthcare to help them reconnect with what brought them to medicine in the first place. In this episode, we speak with Merrill about how she helps clinicians lead a purposeful life and how healthcare institutions can better safeguard against workforce attrition.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• What coaching is, how it compares to therapy, and how it can help doctors -  2:20
• What makes physicians unique when it comes to coaching them - 10:40
• How Merrill responds to skepticism of coaching - 14:44
• The primary causes causes of physician burnout - 16:32
• How healthcare administrators can balance patient satisfaction with physician well-being - 24:32 
• Merrill’s advice to medical professionals around self-care 38:06
• Merrill’s advice to healthcare leaders and administrators who want to better support and protect their staff from burnout - 40:28

Merrill's website can be found at MerrillLeadership.com.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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As a college student, Samuel Brown, MD never believed he would work in medicine. Yet today, he is not only an accomplished intensivist at Intermountain Healthcare and a professor of medicine at the University of Utah, but also an acclaimed writer, theologian, and religious historian. For Dr. Brown, this career is truly a spiritual calling. In this heartfelt and frequently humorous episode, we meet with him to discuss his unusual journey to medicine and to understand how his personal philosophy helps him connect with the sick and dying.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• Dr. Brown’s personal history of religiosity and his initial resistance to a career in medicine – 2:43
• How Dr. Brown’s belief in the divinity of each human informs his work as a physician – 11:16
• The changing social, cultural, and medical contexts of death and dying in America, and the development of the modern ICU, as explored in his book Through the Valley of Shadows - 15:09
• The depersonalization of patients in the ICU and how spirituality helps foster the doctor-patient relationship – 21:36
• Finding meaning in tragedy, especially one as massive and widespread as the COVID-19 pandemic – 28:33
• Dr. Brown’s advice for all students and new medical professionals on maintaining a healthy outlook in an often-harrowing world – 33:29

Dr. Brown’s most recent book is Through the Valley of Shadows: Living Wills, Intensive Care, and Making Medicine Human.

Connect with Dr. Brown on Twitter @DrSamuelBrown.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Few people have a more well-rounded understanding of our healthcare system than Lloyd Minor, MD, Dean of Stanford Medical School. With diverse experiences in research, surgery, healthcare education, clinical care, and institutional leadership, Dean Minor has cultivated a unique bird’s-eye view of the obstacles that face our increasingly complex medical system. In this episode, we ask him to share insights on how to create robust support systems for both patients and medical staff alike, in order to address difficult institutional challenges such as burnout, work-life balance for healthcare staff, and racial inequities in care. 

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• How Dean Minor’s early interests in math and science shaped his career as a physician scientist - 2:13
• Dean Minor’s belief that earning trust and respect as a leader is paramount to making a shared vision come to life - 8:57
• His challenges with work/life balance during his years of training - 10:23
• Stanford’s commitment to precision health initiatives - 13:23
• Racial disparities in our healthcare system, and what we can do to create better outcomes - 27:18 
• The importance of teaching leadership skills to medical trainees - 32:26

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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The practice of medicine has a rich legacy, sharing common themes yet manifesting in myriad forms around the world. For Cesar Padilla, MD, an obstetric anesthesiologist and clinical assistant professor at Stanford, this historical and cultural thread is vivid and alive, informing care and connection with his patients and students. In this episode, we ask Dr. Padilla to reflect on his personal history and that of the wider medical field to gain insights on best practices for care across cultures.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• Dr. Padilla’s childhood summers residing in a Catholic hospital in Mexico and how that ignited his passion for medicine - 3:45
• Why Dr. Padilla believes the "art" of medicine resides in human connection - 6:18
• The educational inequities & challenges Dr. Padilla faced as a first generation immigrant - 10:12 
• How Dr. Padilla draws on the history of medicine to provide quality care - 16:24
• How clinicians can better connect with patients when differing cultural backgrounds are involved - 26:06
• The one piece of advice Dr. Padilla wants all medical trainees to remember - 35:19

Dr. Padilla writes extensively about the history of medicine. Here are articles mentioned in the episode: 

The Best Argument for Medicare for All - Our Nation’s First Hospital, Co-founded by Benjamin Franklin, Provided Free Care for the Poor

From an ICU Doctor - What We Really Think About Death and Dying 

A partial list of Dr. Padilla’s other writings: https://medium.com/@cesarraudelpadilla

Connect with Dr. Padilla on Twitter @TheMillennialMD

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Chaplain Bruce Feldstein, MD is the director of the Jewish Chaplaincy Service at Stanford University, as well as an adjunct clinical professor at Stanford University School of Medicine. After 19 years practicing as an emergency medicine physician, an injury led Bruce on a path of finding a deeper sense of his life’s work as a Chaplain. He now teaches an award-winning curriculum on spirituality and well-being for medical students and faculty at Stanford. 

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• Chaplain Feldstein’s unexpected journey from emergency physician to chaplain - 3:35
• The unforgettable moment when Chaplain Feldstein first prayed with a patient - 5:00
• How to connect with patients in a spiritual way – even if they’re not religious - 18:04
• Five key relationships to foster in your life to counter compassion fatigue - 30:57
• The core teaching within Chaplain Feldstein’s class, ‘The Healer’s Art’ - 37:40

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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One aspect of the medical profession that doesn’t often garner a great deal of public attention is that of caring for patients who are dying. For Mimi Dunne, MD, the relief of suffering has been her life’s calling — specifically the mission of relieving mental and social suffering in the lives of terminal patients, and helping them and their families find solace and meaning as they face mortality. This week, we ask Dr. Dunne to share insights and lessons from her experience in palliative care.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• What palliative care entails and what kinds of physicians specialize in it- 02:06
• Dr. Dunne’s path from emergency care to palliative medicine - 3:36
• Common misconceptions about palliative care - 7:43
• Stories of a pivotal patient case that illuminates Dr. Dunne’s career - 11:33
• What it is like to accompany patients at their end of life - 15:59
• A discussion of Narrative Medicine and storytelling - 23:44
• A discussion of the Top Five Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie Ware - 29:29

Works, Organizations, and Individuals Discussed:

The American Academy of Hospice and Palliative Medicine

The Center to Advance Palliative Care

Dr. Diane Meier, professor of Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine

Bill Moyer’s PBS docu-series Healing in the Mind

Dr. Laura Carstensen of the Stanford Center on Longevity

Dr. Ira Byock’s work on Developmental Tasks of the End of Life

Narrative Medicine: Honoring the Stories of Illness by Dr. Rita Charon

Professor Dan McAdams’ work on Narrative Identity

The Top Five Regrets of the Dyingby Bronnie Ware

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Medicine is a challenging and complex, yet ultimately fulfilling vocation that has seen much upheaval in recent years, from technological disruptions to the COVID-19 pandemic. For medical student Henry Bair and oncologist Tyler Johnson, both at Stanford University, this moment calls for a mindful investigation of the factors driving those who work in health care, whether as clinicians, educators, or executives. Probing the humanistic dimensions of patient care, they explore the philosophies and realities underpinning the healthcare profession.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

• What first drew co-hosts Henry and Tyler to the medical profession - 03:26
• The moments that epitomized why they pursued healthcare as their life’s calling - 10:08
• The growing pattern of burnout and alienation among medical workers - 21:40
• Previews of subjects that will be covered in future episodes of this podcast - 25:03

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2022

The practice of medicine – filled with moments of joy, suffering, grace, sorrow, and hope – offers a window into the human condition. Though serving as guides and companions to patients’ illness experiences is profoundly meaningful work, the busy nature of modern medicine can blind its own practitioners to the reasons they entered it in the first place. Join oncologist Tyler Johnson and medical trainee Henry Bair as they meet with doctors, patients, leaders, educators, and others in healthcare, to explore stories on finding and nourishing meaning in medicine. This podcast is for anyone striving for a deeper connection with their medical journey.

Please subscribe for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com. Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com for more information.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2022

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, with an endowment of over $50 billion, is one of the largest and most influential philanthropic organizations in the world. With a focus on addressing global health, poverty, and education, its initiatives have led to the reduction of malaria mortality by 60% over the past two decades, the near eradication of polio, increased educational opportunities of millions of students, and improved sanitation conditions for millions of people in developing countries. 

For six years, oncologist Sue Desmond-Hellmann, MD, MPH was the CEO of this organization. Prior to that, she served as Chancellor of the University of California at San Francisco, as well as President of Product Development at Genentech, where she oversaw the development of Herceptin, Avastin, Rituxan, and other blockbuster cancer drugs that are now staples in the arsenal of many medical oncologists.

The topics of our discussion in this episode are as varied as Dr. Desmond-Hellman's career. We discuss, among other things, how seeing the work of her pharmacist father encouraged her to pursue a career in medicine, how her early experiences treating HIV patients in Uganda spurred her to tackle global health challenges, how she discovered a passion for product development in the pharmaceutical industry, how she reconciles the ethical quandaries of developing medications that can cause serious adverse effects and that can sometimes cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per dose, what her mission while at the Gates Foundation was, and her perspectives on the role of artificial intelligence and human health and well-being, now that she has joined the board of directors of OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

2:50 - How working in her father’s pharmacy led Dr. Desmond-Hellmann to a career in medicine

4:56 - A brief summary of Dr. Desmond-Hellmann’s multifaceted career trajectory

15:36 - What the day to day work of pharmaceutical drug development looks like 

18:30 - The challenging ethical concerns that surround drug approvals especially as it pertains to safety concerns

23:44 - Dr. Desmond-Hellmann’s experiences in Uganda that forever transformed her views on poverty 

27:55 - The aims of the Gates Foundation 

30:47 - How Dr. Desmond-Hellmann views her work both in the non-profit and the for-profit sectors 

37:15 - Dr. Desmond-Hellmann’s mission when she took on a leading role at The Gates Foundation 

38:38 - How Dr. Desmond-Hellmann thinks about shaping the future of AI as she takes a seat on the board of OpenAI

45:14 - Dr. Desmond-Hellmann’s advice for medical trainees and clinicians on how to navigate the many opportunities available to them along their career path

Dr. Sue Desmond-Hellmann can be found on Twitter/X @suedhellmann.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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In today's world, the idea of “identifying your values” is so ubiquitous, appearing from corporate mission statements to self-help books, that it can seem trivialized to the point of meaninglessness. But in this episode, Ira Bedzow, PhD reminds us it does not have to be this way—explorations of personal values can be an inspiring, holistic, and thought provoking process that transforms everything that we do, from finding joy in work to building fulfilling relationships. 

Bedzow is the executive director of the Emory Purpose Project, an initiative at Emory University that provides opportunities for students to develop a capacity for reflection on purpose and meaning. He is also an associate professor in the Department of Medicine, a core faculty member of Emory's Center for Ethics, a senior fellow in Emory's Center for the Study of Law and Religion, and an Orthodox rabbi. 

Over the course of our conversation, Bedzow discusses how he helps people discover their life purpose, how he teaches moral leadership, how he wrestles with questions of moral relativism, the connection between a loss of purpose and burnout, how he counsels clinicians on resolving ethical quandaries, and more.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

2:21 - The varied roles that make up Dr. Bedzow’s current career

8:06 - What “values” mean

15:53 - The principles Dr. Bedzow employs when counseling students on their career and life aspirations

19:07 - Applying ethical thinking to medical scenarios 

27:36 - How Dr. Bedzow counsels leadership at an organizational level

31:02 - The connection between a loss of sense of purpose and burnout

 39:01 - How organizations and individuals can proactively foster a sense of mission 

42:05 - The deep meaning that Dr. Bedzow finds in his religion 

45:23 - Truths that Judaism can offer the world  

Ira Bedzow is the author of the essay How Purpose and Employee Empowerment Can Stop Burnout.

Ira Bedzow can be found on Twitter/X at @ijbedzow.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Terminal lucidity is a mysterious yet well-documented phenomenon in which someone at the end of life—including those who have suffered strokes or other brain injuries, or those afflicted by dementia—suddenly returns with mental clarity and is able to recognize loved ones and engage in meaningful and emotionally rich conversations. It challenges our fundamental understanding and assumptions about the nature of consciousness, brain function in the context of severe illness, and personhood. 

In this episode, Alexander Batthyány, PhD, a cognitive scientist and the Director of the Viktor Frankl Institute, offers insights on terminal lucidity from his years of study on this phenomenon from a philosophical, ethical, neurological, and psychological perspective. He is the author of the 2023 book Threshold: Terminal Lucidity and the Border of Life and Death.

Over the course of our conversation, he shares how witnessing terminal lucidity in his grandmother has shaped his life purpose, why he chooses to use the word “soul” in his academic research, the role of spirituality and religion in making sense of terminal lucidity, the limits of our scientific and materialistic understanding of the brain, what terminal lucidity reveals about the dignity and unpredictability inherent in the human condition, and what it ultimately teaches us about kindness and compassion. 

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:31 - The personal experience that drew Dr. Batthyány to study terminal lucidity 

6:34 - An exploration of human dignity

12:26 - The importance of talking and thinking about the human “soul”

18:26 - Definition and phenomenology of terminal lucidity

23:57 - What is known about brain functioning during episodes of terminal lucidity 

31:44 - Advice for caregivers, family members, and clinicians if a patient experiences terminal lucidity

36:55 - The prevalence of terminal lucidity 

40:14 - Whether individuals who experience terminal lucidity have insight into their condition

42:15 - Why phenomena like terminal lucidity matter

Dr. Alexander Batthyány is the author of Threshold: Terminal Lucidity and the Border of Life and Death (2023).

Dr. Batthyány can be found in Twitter/X at @Alxdr_Batthyany.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) plays a crucial role in health care. As the organization that oversees medical education and thus the pipeline of future medical professionals in the United States, its critical duties include administering the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT), managing the residency application service, drafting guidelines for faculty members and departments at medical schools and academic hospitals, disseminating data on medical education and workforce trends that shape policymaking at medical schools and government bodies, and promoting diversity in health care.

Leading this organization is David Skorton, MD, a cardiologist and pioneer of cardiac imaging and computer processing techniques, who also previously served as the 13th Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution and as President of Cornell University and of the University of Iowa. In this episode, Dr. Skorton shares with us how his family's immigrant past has shaped him, how he went from struggling during his own medical school application process more than 50 years ago to now leading an organization that represents all medical schools and teaching hospitals, why the arts and humanities matter to him, how he thinks about medical education given the emergence of generative artificial intelligence, what great mentors look like, how effective leadership often means learning from everyone around you, and more.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

2:42 - Dr. Skorton’s unexpected path from jazz musician to President of the AAMC

7:42 - Why current medical admissions aim to be “holistic”

12:09 - The lessons Dr. Skorton learned through mentorship and why the arts and humanities can create better doctors

17:32 - How Dr. Skorton has been able to “see past himself” enough to receive challenging criticism from mentors

28:01 - The core tenets of Dr. Skorton’s leadership philosophy 

31:35 - How the AAMC views the future of medical education especially in light of advances in artificial intelligence

38:47 - The importance of diverse healthcare teams

46:32 - Issues that Dr. Skorton addresses through his role at the AAMC

Dr. David Skorton can be found on Twitter/X at @DavidJSkorton.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

In spring of 2020, Cornelia Griggs, MD was finishing her nearly decade-long training to become a pediatric surgeon in New York City, when COVID-19 struck and life fell apart. The hospital was flooded with mysteriously sick patients for whom no known treatments existed, basic supplies disappeared from shelves, and each day at work took on an existential burden as she wondered if this would be the day she caught the deadly disease herself. 

Dr. Griggs describes these dramatic stories from the early days of the pandemic in her 2024 memoir, The Sky Was Falling. Today, she is a triple board-certified pediatric surgeon, having completed medical school and pediatric surgery fellowship at Columbia University Medical Center, and her adult general surgery residency and surgical critical care fellowship at Massachusetts General Hospital, where she currently practices. 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Griggs describes the course of her challenging training in medicine, why it takes “a little crazy” to succeed as a surgeon, harrowing moments that defined heroism amid the throes of the pandemic, how she continued working even when giving up was the easy option, and more.

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:26 - What initially drew Dr. Griggs into the field of medicine and to the speciality of pediatric surgery 

14:35 - Why the operating room is a “safe space” for Dr. Griggs

19:36 - The sense of alarm that Dr. Griggs experienced in the early days of the pandemic that drove her to write her viral New York Times op-ed, The Sky is Falling 

28:26 - How Dr. Griggs fell into an “investigative reporter” headspace as the pandemic raged around her in New York City 

30:26 - The sense of fear that enveloped both patients and the medical community during the first months of the pandemic 

40:27 - A moment during the early pandemic when Dr. Griggs seriously considered leaving the city and her post in the hospital

46:30 - How ICU nurses brought dignity and humanity when tending to seriously ill COVID-19 patients

51:16 - The hopefulness Dr. Griggs carries in seeing the large number of people who have entered medicine since the pandemic

Dr. Cornelia Griggs can be found on Twitter/X at @CorneliaLG.

Dr. Griggs is the author ofThe Sky Was Falling (2024).

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

To many health economists, the growing aging population is the greatest public health challenge facing America. The current fragmented and costly healthcare system is simply incapable of dealing with the complex medical and socioeconomic needs of this population, especially in an equitable way.

Our guest on this episode, Linda Fried, MD, MPH, has dedicated her life to rethinking how we can create better health futures for older adults. Her pioneering research has expanded our notions of aging and longevity in the 21st century. Dr. Fried, a geriatrician and epidemiologist, is Dean of the Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health, Senior Vice President of the Columbia University Irving Medical Center, and former Founding Director of the Center on Aging and Health at Johns Hopkins University. 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Fried shares how her early experiences as a caseworker drove her to study medicine, surprising lessons from the martial arts aikido, what frailty means in the context of caring for older adults, why America is one of the most age segregated societies in the world, the flaws of over medicalizing health issues, redefining the roles of older adults in society, the importance of meaning and community in sustaining happiness in life, and more.

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:30 - What Dr. Fried’s early experiences in social work taught her about justice, social inequity, and taking care of another person

11:47 - How an awareness of the social determinants of health shaped Dr. Fried as a clinician 

16:46 - Why physicians need to stop “medicalizing” all aspects of a patient’s life

25:00 - How Dr. Fried came to be interested in geriatrics 

28:19 - Dr. Fried’s dedication to extending “healthspan” as well as “lifespan” in our society 

31:08 - The clinical definition of “frailty”

34:15 - The value that an older population could bring to our society

38:49 - The United States’ unique culture of age segregation and how it contributes to poor health outcomes for the elderly

45:38 - What the healthcare system and society at large can do to better serve elderly populations 

50:55 - Dr. Fried’s advice for keeping true to your purpose as a medical professional 

Dr. Linda Fried can be found on LinkedIn.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

The history of cardiac surgery is filled with tales of intrepid surgeons with larger-than-life personalities who pushed the limits of the human body and the bounds of what were then considered acceptable medical practices. The result? Heart transplants, pacemakers, artificial heart valves, heart-lung machines, and other once-unthinkable and experimental procedures that have now saved millions of lives. 

Our guest in this episode, Gerald Imber, MD, charts these remarkable developments in his 2024 book Cardiac Cowboys: The Heroic Invention of Heart Surgery. While not writing books on the history of medicine, Dr. Imber is a practicing plastic surgeon who specializes in cosmetic surgery. Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Imber talks about the challenging yet rewarding training he underwent as a surgery resident, what it means to have an “eye for aesthetics,” why he decided to write a book on the history of heart surgery, stories of daring surgeons from this history, how he reconciles the drive to push the frontiers of medicine with a regard for patient safety, and more.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

2:15 - What drew Dr. Imber to a career in surgery 

7:55 - Dr. Imber’s grueling experiences as a general surgery resident

11:52 - Dr. Imber’s transition into plastic surgery and the aesthetic sensibilities necessary for this speciality 

22:46 - What Dr. Imber’s current plastic surgery practice looks like 

24:28 - How Dr. Imber finds fulfillment and meaning in his work 

25:21 - What motivated Dr. Imber to write Cardiac Cowboys, a book about the history of open heart surgery 

30:47 - Balancing risks to patient lives with medical and surgical experimentation

34:25 - A brief history of open heart surgery

40:02 - Key milestones in the development of open heart surgery 

45:24 - What Dr. Imber hopes readers take away from Cardiac Cowboys 

Dr. Gerald Imber is the author of Cardiac Cowboys: The Heroic Invention of Heart Surgery (2024) and Genius on the Edge: The Bizarre Double Life of Dr. William Stewart Halsted (2010).

Dr. Imber can be found on Instagram at @geraldimbermd.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

For many physicians, having serious illness conversations with patients — talking about a dire prognosis or the futility of curative treatments — is one of the most daunting aspects of patient care. But to palliative care physician Shunichi Nakagawa, MD, these conversations are fundamentally about communicating the honest truth in an elegant, considerate, and humane way. 

Dr. Nakagawa, the director of the Inpatient Palliative Care Service at Columbia University Medical Center, joins us in this episode to discuss both his unique personal journey, as well as his insightful approach to figuring out what really matters to patients during critical moments in their lives. He shares what it was like completing his surgical training in Japan, than coming to the United States with the hope of becoming a liver transplant surgeon, before having those hopes dashed when he found out he was ineligible to work as a surgeon in the US due to his hepatitis carrier status, and finally discovering his true calling in geriatrics and palliative care. 

We also discuss cultural challenges in thinking about the end of life, why it is so difficult for physicians to communicate with their patients about serious illness, how clinicians ought to approach shared decision making, and why, when done well, this can be one of the most meaningful and rewarding parts of doctoring.

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:34 - How Dr. Nakagawa entered a career in medicine in Japan

5:33 - Dr. Nakagawa’s unique journey through medical training, from surgery to palliative care  

16:25 - The three-stage process that Dr. Nakagawa follows when communicating challenging medical information to patients

28:10 - Delivering medical advice in a succinct way when speaking to patients and their family members 

36:14 - Lessons on what works and what doesn’t work in sensitive patient communication 

Dr. Shunichi Nakagawa can be found on Twitter/X at @snakagawa_md. 

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

Rotavirus, a highly contagious virus that causes severe diarrhea and vomiting, used to kill more than half a million children annually. But the introduction of the rotavirus vaccine has slashed that number dramatically, saving hundreds of thousands of lives each year. 

Joining us in this episode is Paul Offit, MD, a co-inventor of one of the two most widely used rotavirus vaccines worldwide. Dr. Offit is a professor of pediatrics and vaccinology at the University of Pennsylvania and director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. A leading world expert on vaccines, he served on the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee during the COVID-19 pandemic. He is the author of more than 15 books, most recently Tell Me When It's Over: An Insider's Guide to Deciphering Covid Myths and Navigating our Post-Pandemic World (2024). 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Offit shares what drew him to pediatrics, how he developed a vaccine that now saves hundreds of kids every day, the stringent process by which new medications are approved, the origins of vaccine hesitancy. Why public health communication failed during the COVID-19 pandemic, what we can do to restore public trust in medicine, and more.

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:24 - The harrowing experience Dr. Offit endured as a young child that inspired him to a seek a career in pediatrics

6:40 - How Dr. Offit’s research led to a successful rotavirus vaccine in 2006 

10:46 - A brief history of vaccines

16:40 - Why Dr. Offit chose to become a public advocate for vaccines 

20:14 - Why vaccines have garnered such intense backlash from large proportions of the public 

26:44 - Factors that have led to an erosion of trust in public health over the past four years

33:01 - What Dr. Offit means when he talks about “following the science”

40:35 - How public health officials can speak about scientific knowledge in a way that acknowledges uncertainty

47:37 - The future of vaccines mandates in our society 

54:16 - Dr. Offit’s advice for building trust with skeptical parents 

Dr. Paul Offit is the author of 13 books, including Tell Me When It's Over: An Insider's Guide to Deciphering Covid Myths and Navigating our Post-Pandemic World (2024).

Dr. Offit can be found on Twitter/X at @DrPaulOffit.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

Soon after finishing his first semester of college, Jim Yong Kim, MD, PhD excitedly told his father that he'd dedicate his life to starting a social justice movement. In response, his father sternly reprimanded him, saying that the only career he'd support was one in medicine. Dr. Kim acquiesced, but over the subsequent decades would hold on to this passion for social justice and become one of the most influential individuals working in global health, poverty reduction, and sustainable development. 

He co-founded Partners in Health, today a renowned medical humanitarian organization that operates in the poorest areas of developing countries. From there, he served as advisor to the Director-General of the World Health Organization and as Director of its HIV/Aids Department. He would then serve as the 17th President of Dartmouth College, before being selected as President of the World Bank, a position he would hold for seven years. 

In this episode, Dr. Kim joins us to discuss his unique training combining medicine with anthropology, the cultural factors that shaped his understanding of international development, how he spearheaded radical efforts to treat millions of HIV and multidrug-resistant tuberculosis patients around the world, the inner mechanisms of the World Bank, the moral philosophy that drives his work, and more.

In this episode, we discuss: 

2:32 - Dr Kim’s motivation for pursuing both medicine and anthropology 

8:04 - How Dr. Kim paired his clinical training with his passion for social justice 

16:46 - How Dr. Kim stayed true to his moral convictions as he faced challenges in managing global crises such as the HIV epidemic in Africa 

26:29 - The story of PEPFAR, one of the most ambitious initiatives to address the global HIV/AIDS pandemic pandemic

30:45 - How committing to moral justice can help people think outside of the box to meet the economic needs of a situation 

33:36 - The history and goals of the World Bank 

38:11 - How Dr. Kim prepared for his role at the World Bank, an organization that operates in many sectors in addition to global health 

43:28 - How Dr. Kim maintains a sense of purpose and fulfillment throughout his career

Dr. Jim Yong Kim can be found on Twitter/X at @jim_yong12.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

It's a cliche to say health care is broken. However, the extent to which it is unnecessarily convoluted, inefficient, and fragmented frustrates even the most experienced clinicians each time they are forced to deal with its consequences. Medical records disappear when a patient switches doctors. Critical details of life-saving treatment plans are buried deep within thousands of pages worth of electronic charts. 

In this episode, Stanford oncologist and journalist Ilana Yurkiewicz, MD explores all the ways that modern medicine is riddled with gaps and the incredible strain this puts on providers, patients, and caregivers alike. She is the author of the 2023 book Fragmented: A Doctor's Quest to Piece Together American Health Care. In the first half of our conversation, Dr. Yurkiewicz shares how she connects with patients and helps them through the worst moments of their lives—often taking place after a cancer has been treated. In the second half, we discuss why electronic medical records are failing doctors and patients, how clinicians can strive to retain a sense of autonomy, and how she manages the uncertainty that this broken system frequently imposes upon her.

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:53 - Dr. Yurkiewicz’s day job as a primary care physician specializing in cancer patients and survivors

5:49 - The benefits that cancer patients and survivors receive in seeing a primary care provider with additional training in oncology

10:34 - What initially drew Dr. Yurkiewicz to oncology 

15:00 - Why helping people through times of suffering is meaningful to Dr. Yurkiewicz

18:30 - How Dr. Yurkiewicz became adept at dealing with the diverse emotional psychosocial of cancer survivors 

22:45 - What “fragmentation of the healthcare system” means to Dr. Yurkiewicz 

24:24 - How patients expect the medical system to work versus how it actually works 

34:30 - The challenges physicians face in piecing together a patient’s story through medical charts

39:12 - The consequences of fragmented medical records

46:26 - How electronic medical records can be improved

50:44 - How Dr. Yurkiewicz retains a sense of autonomy amid a fragmented system 

58:11 - Dr. Yurkiewicz’s approach to having difficult and high-stakes conversations with patients 

Dr. Ilana Yurkiewicz is the author of Fragmented: A Doctor's Quest to Piece Together American Health Care (2023).

Dr. Yurkiewicz can be found on Instagram at @iyurkiewiczmd.

In this episode, we discuss Danielle Ofri’s 2019 New York Times Op Ed The Business of Healthcare is Built on Exploiting Healthcare Workers.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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We didn’t choose to live this life. In its most difficult moments, it's all too natural to ask the question, “What makes life worth living?” 

This question, so central to philosophy since ancient times, is what we explore in this episode with Nick Riggle, a professor of philosophy at University of California, San Diego. Riggle is the author of several books, most recently 2022’s This Beauty: A Philosophy of Being Alive. 

Over the course of our conversation, we discuss aesthetics, which is the branch of philosophy concerned with beauty and art; the various ways that we, successfully or otherwise, have attempted to find meaning in life; why finding beauty and building an aesthetic community is so crucial to human well-being; and much more. 

In this episode, you’ll hear about: 

2:29 - Nick’s path from being a pro-skater to becoming a philosophy professor and author 

8:41 - How Nick approaches surveying philosophical thought through history

10:22 - The importance that aesthetics and beauty play in Nick’s studies 

19:13 - What motivated Nick to write his book This Beauty

21:04 - How Nick conceptualized answering the central question of his book

23:51 - The takeaways that Nick personally found for what makes life worth living 

29:15 - What it means to pay attention to the beautiful things in life 

32:18 - Are some kinds of beauty and art “better” than others? 

34:47 - The value of creating an aesthetic community  

39:12 - Living an aesthetic life when your physical or mental state is limited

Nick Riggle is the author of multiple books and publications, including This Beauty: A Philosophy of Being Alive (2022), Aesthetic Life and Why it Matters (2022), and On Being Awesome: A Unified Theory on How Not to Suck (2017). 

Nick Riggle can be found on Instagram at @nickriggle.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Anyone who has interacted with ChatGPT is likely to agree that it is one of the most powerful and transformative artificial intelligence tools out there. Writes our guest on this episode, Microsoft's Chief Scientific Officer Eric Horvitz, MD, PhD, “ChatGPT left me awestruck. It is a polymath with a remarkable capacity to integrate traditionally disparate concepts and methodologies to weave together ideas that transcend disciplinary boundaries.” 

Dr. Horvitz is one of the leading voices in artificial intelligence (AI), serving now on the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology and formerly as President of the Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence. His research has been foundational to machine learning, AI integration of multisensory streams of information, computational models in imperfect information systems, and applications of AI amidst the complexities of the open world. As it happens, Dr. Horvitz is also a physician by training. 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Horvitz discusses how studying AI has enabled him to explore the mysteries of human intelligence and why there are some domains of the human experience that AI will never capture. As you will hear, he brings an eloquent optimism to articulating the ways that AI will contribute to human flourishing. 

In this episode, we discuss: 

3:00 - Dr. Horvitz early trajectory from medical school to a PhD in computer science

7:42 - What Dr. Horvitz’s studies in AI have taught him about natural intelligence 

10:00 - A primer of generative AI 

21:16 - Dr. Horvitz’s view on the future potentials and dangers that AI will bring to society 

29:04 - How the profit motive might shape the utilization of AI in our society 

36:48 - The importance of approaching AI development from a human-centered lens  

47:29 - What human flourishing could look like in a society steeped in artificial intelligence 

Dr. Eric Horvitz is the author of numerous publications on artificial intelligence and its role in society.

Dr. Horvitz can be found on Twitter/X at @erichorvitz.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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If you were to rank all the medical specialties by the arduousness of the training required, the technical complexity and high stress of the interventions involved, and the harshness of the working hours, cardiothoracic surgery would be near or at the top of anyone's list. 

In this episode, cardiac surgeon and Chair of the Department of Surgery at Columbia University Medical Center Craig Smith, MD takes us into the heart and mind of a physician who regularly cracks open a person's chest to manipulate some of their most anatomically intricate parts in order to save their lives. He is the author of the 2023 memoir Nobility in Small Things: A Surgeon's Path, and famously performed the quadruple bypass surgery that saved former US president Bill Clinton's life in 2004. 

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Smith discusses the joys of exploring the human body, what motivates him to get up at 4 a.m. every day with the same burning passion for his work, why his family is one of the most important elements of work life balance, how he deals with mistakes and adverse events in the operating room, and more.

In this episode, you will hear about: 

2:23 - Dr. Smith’s initial path to medicine 

4:43 - What drew Dr. Smith to the field of cardiothoracic surgery and how he handles the high-stakes nature of the work. 

15:47 - What happens when a surgery goes not go according to plan 

18:54 - Dr. Smith’s approach to comforting and connecting with patients prior to surgery 

22:24 - Dr. Smith’s experience performing surgery while struggling through what he later learned was a very early case of COVID-19 in early 2020

29:03 - How Dr. Smith views work-life balance 

34:17 - The role of spirituality and religion in Dr. Smith’s work

35:51 - How Dr. Smith has retained his sense of purpose and calling throughout his career 

45:28 – A patient story that encapsulates why performing surgery is so meaningful for Dr. Smith

Dr. Craig Smith is the author of Nobility in Small Things: A Surgeon’s Path (2023).

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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When Kathy Giusti was told she had multiple myeloma one fateful day in 1996, she was 37 and in the midst of a successful rising career. She was the mother of a one-year-old baby with plans to have a second child. The disease had few treatments and she was given three years to live. Instead of sitting back, however, Kathy took action to create her own hope. That meant not only conducting  research on treatments where there was none, but doing it with unprecedented speed and precision. 

She founded the Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation and became its first CEO. In the two decades since, the foundation has spearheaded a clinical network that has conducted nearly 100 trials and launched more than 150 new drugs, drastically increasing the life expectancy of patients from 3 to 10 years. For her work, she has been included among Fortune Magazine's list of the World's 50 Greatest Leaders and TIME Magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the world. Kathy is also the author of the 2024 book Fatal to Fearless, which helps cancer patients understand and navigate their own care. 

Over the course of our conversation, Kathy describes her life before and after her diagnosis of multiple myeloma, how and why she took initiative to create new treatments for her own disease, what happened after she received a new diagnosis of breast cancer in 2022, and how all patients can better make the healthcare system work for them.

In this episode, we discuss: 

3:00 - Kathy’s life before she was diagnosed with cancer

4:56 - What is multiple myeloma? 

8:58 - Kathy’s reaction upon learning her diagnosis, both intellectually and emotionally 

18:36 - How Kathy navigated the experience of concurrently going through IVF and cancer treatment

22:30 - The sources of support that Kathy leaned on throughout her cancer journey

24:40 - How Kathy and her sister started the Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation  

34:53 - How the treatment landscape for multiple myeloma has changed since Kathy was diagnosed in 1996

41:00 - A glossary of medical terms that have been discussed in this episode

44:33 - The current status of Kathy’s multiple myeloma 

50:39 - Kathy’s key advice for both cancer patients and health care professionals for navigating cancer treatment 

Kathy Guisti is the author of From Fatal of Fearless: 12 Steps to Beating Cancer in a Broken Medical System (2024).

In this episode we discuss the book When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi, and the essay The Median is Not the Message by Jay Gould, PhD, and our past episode The Physician Who Cured Himself (with Dr. David Fajgenbaum).

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

In the 100th episode of The Doctor's Art, we reflect on the lessons and insights we have heard from guests over the past two years. We first share the story of how The Doctor’s Art podcast came to be, then we discuss some of the most meaningful and impactful episodes for us and how the show has changed the way we practice medicine and approach life. Finally, we share exciting new directions in which we hope to take the program.

In this episode, we discuss: 

1:45 - How The Doctor’s Art podcast came to be 

9:20 - Reflections on the growth and evolution of the podcast

16:05 - The deep meaning that Tyler found in recording Episode 19 (Art, Drama and a Terminal Illness, with Ellen Dunphy), which featured a terminally ill patient under his care shortly before her passing

22:35 - How Episode 41 (Love and Mercy in the ICU, with Wes Ely) set Henry up for success as he began his career as a physician

30:22 - The insights on suffering in Episode 52 (A Space for Mystery, with Elisha Waldman) that have influenced Tyler’s personal and professional lives 

33:25 - How Episode 65 (Everyday Wonder in Medicine and Beyond, with Dacher Keltner) helped Henry find awe in everyday moments while working in the hospital

36:07 - The single sentence in Episode 73 (The Physician Who Cured Himself, with David Fajgenbaum) that has stayed with Henry and reminds him to cherish how our bodies work

39:10 - The two episodes that challenged the way Tyler perceives the world (Episode 86: Reflections at the End of Sight, with Andrew Leland and Episode 91: Inside a Suicidal Mind, with Clancy Martin) 

41:24 - How Dacher Keltner’s explanation of awe points to the kinds of experiences and activities we can value and why some are more transformative than others

44:01 - The unexpected effect that Episode 21 (Pain, Pleasure, and Finding the Balance, with Anna Lembke) had on Tyler’s perception of addiction within our modern lives

51:37 - What’s next for The Doctor’s Art podcast 

We would like to take this opportunity to thank each and every one of you for listening to this show. We would also like to thank our guests for their generosity in sharing their time with us.

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024

At the mention of human consciousness and the supposed interconnectivity of all things, your mind probably conjures up the countless books on meditation, alternative medicine, and mysticism that permeate self-help sections of bookstores. But complexity theory attempts to apply rigorous scientific analyses to universal questions of consciousness and being. At its heart, complexity theory seeks to understand how complex behaviors and patterns emerge from simple rules and interactions within a system. This theory, which draws from mathematics, computer science, and physics, challenges our traditional reductionist approaches to biology and reveals how life self-organizes from the substance of our universe, from interactions within the quantum foam to the formation of atoms and molecules, cells, human beings, social structures, ecosystems, and beyond.

Here to tell us more about it is Neil Theise, MD, a pathologist and complexity theorist who in 2023 wrote the book Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness and Being. Dr. Theise is Co-Director of Gastrointestinal and Liver Pathology at NYU's Grossman School of Medicine and is a pioneer of adult stem cell plasticity and the anatomy of the human interstitium. 

In the first half of our conversation, Dr. Theise discusses his journey to pathology by way of Jewish studies and computer science during college, what it's like to decipher diseases through his biopsy samples, and the significance of being the doctor that other doctors turn to for guidance on treatments. In the second half of our conversation, Dr. Theise gives us a primer of complexity theory and how it seeks to explain the beauty and mysteries of life.

In this episode, we discuss: 

4:01 - What a pathologist does and why Dr. Theise finds the work fulfilling 

8:15 - Dr. Theise’s path to becoming a pathologist 

15:22 - The unique role of pathologists in learning life-changing information about patients

20:42 - What it’s like to be the doctor that other doctors turn to for diagnostic puzzles 

24:43 - A primer to complexity theory 

37:03 - The difference between chaos theory and complexity theory 

40:35 - How Dr. Theise came to study complexity theory and how it relates to our understanding of the body

54:38 - Why Dr. Theise believes that people should bring metaphysics back into their lives 

Dr. Neil Theise can be found on Instagram at @neiltheise.

Dr. Neil Theise is the author of Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness, and Being (2023).

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2024