The Difference Podcast: Renae Mann, Refugee Council
“It's hard to find the space to step back and really think: what are we here for?”
That's Renae Mann, Executive Director of Services at Refugee Council, on how easy it is to lose sight of the bigger picture when you're doing frontline work in a complex space.
Renae has spent twenty-five years in the social justice sphere, with a particular focus on refugee and migrant justice. She's social work and community development trained, and after five years at Refugee Council she has just been appointed CEO of Unseen, which provides safe houses and community support for survivors of trafficking and modern slavery.
Finding the golden thread
When Renae arrived at Refugee Council, the organisation was doing brilliant work, but it had no single, joined-up story about the impact it wanted to have. Lots of great outputs. No North Star.
We talk about the three-year process of building one: starting in service delivery, then realising they needed to step back and rebuild the theory of change from scratch, sense-checked directly with refugees. Renae's advice for anyone starting an impact journey: it must be bottom-up, not top-down, and the conversations with the people you serve should come first, not last.
The tension between delivery and influence
One of my favourite moments from our work with Refugee Council was a room split right down the middle, half the team thought the greatest impact came from direct service delivery, half thought it came from changing government policy. Renae reflects on that tension, and why the answer wasn't to pick a side but to get clearer about what each was actually for.
Safety as an outcome
Refugee Council's data has shown a stark difference in how safe people feel depending on how they arrived in the UK, through the asylum system versus a safe route. Renae talks about what that uncertainty does to people, and how the political landscape around it has shifted since the Refugee Convention's tenth anniversary of the Brexit vote.
Risk, or “bold action”
We've asked a few guests about risk during this podcast series, and Renae's answer was particularly insightful: reframe it. Risk implies fear. What organisations actually need is bold action - grounded in robust governance and a psychologically safe culture, so people have permission to try things that might not work.
Also in this episode
- Why 50,000+ people's worth of outcome data has changed how Refugee Council tells its story, including through last year's rebrand
- What “holistic” support actually means when casework, therapy, community development and volunteering work together
Listen now
Renae Mann was until recently Executive Director of Services at Refugee Council. The case study features in The Difference: How to Understand, Measure and Maximise Social Impact, out now.
The Difference Podcast is hosted by Matt Stevenson-Dodd and Helen Gregg.
