The Denison Forum Podcast - Christian perspective on current events, Christian news and culture, Biblical wisdom – Details, episodes & analysis

In this seventh episode of the special eight-episode series called ‘Politics discerned differently,’ Dr. Mark Turman discusses the sanctity of life and the issue of abortion with Dr. Katie Fruge and Dr. Ryan Denison. The conversation explores the cultural and political landscape surrounding abortion and the challenges faced by the pro-life movement. They emphasize the importance of approaching the conversation with a biblical perspective and a recognition of the innate dignity and worth of every human being. They also discuss the need for a holistic pro-life approach that not only focuses on the pre-born but also supports families and creates a culture of life. 

The conversation explores the complex and nuanced topic of the sanctity of life, particularly in relation to abortion and IVF. The speakers discuss the different perspectives on when life begins and the sacredness of every stage of life. They emphasize the importance of understanding and respecting differing viewpoints, as well as the need for better conversations around the topic. 

They also address the role of politics and political parties in addressing the sanctity of life, highlighting the need for a holistic approach and the dangers of oversimplification. The speakers conclude by urging churches to take a comprehensive approach to promoting a culture of life and addressing the various causes of abortion.

• (03:11): Approaching the Sanctity of Life with a Biblical Perspective
• (05:04): A Holistic Pro-Life Approach: Supporting Families and Creating a Culture of Life
• (09:31): Challenges Faced by the Pro-Life Movement in the Cultural and Political Landscape
• (25:14): Theological Perspectives on Personhood and When Life Begins
• (30:52): Understanding the Complexities of the Sanctity of Life
• (37:01): Exploring the Role of Politics and Political Parties
• (45:15): The Impact of IVF on the Sanctity of Life
• (48:59): The Reality of Chemical Abortions
• (55:23): The Role of Churches in Promoting the Sanctity of Life

Episode Transcript (PDF)

• Faith in the public square: A conversation with David French
• Why we must choose life
• How to vote for imperfect political parties: A conversation with Jason Yates
• Who determines the value of life?
• When politics get extreme, what should Christians do? A conversation with Tim Alberta

• Respectfully, I Disagree by Dr. Jim Denison - Audiobook - Audible.com
• The sanctity of life from conception to natural death
• What does the Bible say about abortion? • Denison Forum
• Alabama Supreme Court rules that frozen embryos are “unborn children”: When does life begin? What does this decision mean for abortion and the sanctity of life?
• How can so many Americans be so wrong on abortion?
• What does it truly mean to be pro-life today?
• The Coming Tsunami
• Election 2024: Discern politics differently
• How Does God See America? 
• How should Christians vote?
• Did the Republican party abandon the pro-life movement?
• Trump campaign states he would veto a national abortion ban
• When does life begin? Frozen embryos, IVF, and the sanctity of life
• How can God redeem America’s declining birth rates?

• My Faith Votes
• Divided We Fall: America’s Secession Threat and How to Restore Our Nation
• Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America: Moore, Russell
• The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics – Redeeming Babel
• Truth Over Tribe: Pledging Allegiance to the Lamb, Not the Donkey or the Elephant
• Speak the Truth: How to Bring God Back into Every Conversation
• Joyful Outsiders: Six Ways to Live Like Jesus in a Disorienting Culture
• Truth Over Tribe
• Your Party Will Not Win This Election – Christianity Today
• Kingdom of Rage by Elizabeth Neumann
• The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism

Katie Frugé, Ph.D., earned her Master of Divinity degree and Ph.D. in systematic theology from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Katie Frugé has been named director of Texas Baptists’ Center for Cultural Engagement and the Christian Life Commission. Frugé began her service with the Baptist General Convention of Texas in 2019 as the hunger and human care specialist with the CLC. She later took on the role of associate director of the CLC.

Ryan Denison, PhD, is the Senior Editor for Theology at Denison Forum. Ryan writes The Daily Article every Friday and contributes writing and research to many of the ministry’s productions. He holds a PhD in church history from BH Carroll Theological Institute after having earned his MDiv at Truett Seminary. He’s authored The Path to Purpose, What Are My Spiritual Gifts?, How to Bless God by Blessing Others, 7 Deadly Sins, and has contributed writing or research to every Denison Forum book.

Mark Turman, DMin is the Executive Director of Denison Forum and Vice President of Denison Ministries. Among his many duties, Turman is most notably the host of The Denison Forum Podcast. He is also the chief strategist for DF Pastors, which equips pastors and church leaders to understand and transform today’s culture.

Denison Forum exists to thoughtfully engage the issues of the day from a biblical perspective through The Daily Article email newsletter and podcast, The Denison Forum Podcast, as well as many books and additional resources.

In this sixth episode of the special eight-episode series called ‘Politics discerned differently,’ Dr. Mark Turman discusses the importance of being salt and light for Christ in uncivil times and navigating the political season. He is joined by Carmen LaBerge and Patrick Miller, who share their insights on echo chambers, media consumption, and the role of Christians as cultural missionaries. They emphasize the need to engage in diverse conversations, listen to different perspectives, and represent Christ in every interaction. They also challenge the idea of winning in the culture and highlight the importance of suffering and serving as missionaries in a broken world. 

In this conversation, Patrick and Carmen discuss the tension and frustration that some Christians in America feel about their role in society. They explore the idea of Christians as outsiders and the historical context of America as a new Jerusalem. They emphasize the need for a complex understanding of American history and the importance of recognizing that Christians have been outsiders at various points in history. 

They also discuss the concepts of majority rule and minority rights, and how Christians should navigate being in the majority or minority position. The conversation then shifts to the topic of extremism and the vulnerability of Christians to becoming radicalized. They encourage Christians to be curious, open-minded, and willing to admit when they don't know or have changed their minds. They also remind Christians to focus on the kingdom of God and to engage in local communities to make a real difference.

• (04:20): Understanding Echo Chambers
• (07:05): Breaking Out of Echo Chambers
• (11:28): Engaging with Different Viewpoints
• (14:38): Navigating Media Bias
• (21:44): Being Cultural Missionaries
• (25:11): Redefining Winning in the Culture
• (27:06): Embracing Suffering and Serving
• (31:22): The tension between insiders and outsiders in America
• (34:51): Navigating majority rule and minority rights as Christians
• (45:25): The temptation of extremism and the importance of truth
• (53:22): Admitting uncertainty and embracing growth
• (59:00): Focusing on local communities and the kingdom of God

Episode Transcript (PDF)

Related Denison Forum podcasts: 

• An invitation to “The After Party”: Reframing Christian engagement in politics with David French and Curtis Chang
• Should Christians pursue power? A conversation with David French
• Why must Christians be civil in uncivil times?
• Losing Our Religion: A conversation with Russell Moore
• Truth over tribe: A conversation with Patrick Miller

Related Denison Forum articles and resources: 

• Respectfully, I Disagree by Dr. Jim Denison - Audiobook
• Do you need a social media fast? Experts share healthy media diet tips
• Election 2024: Discern politics differently
• How should Christians vote?
• The Coming Tsunami
• The lost art of civility • Denison Forum
• How can Christians respond redemptively to election turmoil?

Other trusted resources: 

• Divided We Fall: America's Secession Threat and How to Restore Our Nation
• Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America: Moore, Russell
• The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics - Redeeming Babel
• Truth Over Tribe: Pledging Allegiance to the Lamb, Not the Donkey or the Elephant
• Speak the Truth: How to Bring God Back into Every Conversation
• Joyful Outsiders: Six Ways to Live Like Jesus in a Disorienting Culture
• Truth Over Tribe
• Carmen LaBerge’s Website
• Mornings with Carmen LaBerge
• Your Party Will Not Win This Election - Christianity Today
• Kingdom of Rage by Elizabeth Neumann
• The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism

Carmen LaBerge is a Christian author, speaker and radio host equipping Christians to get off the sidelines and into the cultural conversations of the day. Her weekday show is Mornings with Carmen on the Faith Radio Network and Carmen engages with audiences via CarmenLaBerge.com. With clever candor, Carmen is a distinctively Christian voice in today's cultural conversations and she has influence with a wide variety of audiences. As both a theologian and everyday communicator, Carmen takes large complex subjects and helps readers and listeners develop the mind of Christ on the matters of the day. She addresses everything from foreign affairs to affairs of the heart, politics to parenting, reconnecting the eternal with the everyday. She holds a B.S. in Business from the University of Florida and an M.Div. from Princeton Theological Seminary. She resides on a farm west of Nashville with her husband, Jim, where they raise kids, cows, and chickens and cultivate fruit trees, laughter and a very good life.

Patrick Miller is a pastor and cultural commentator who writes about politics, culture, and technology, contributing articles to Christianity Today, Newsweek, The Gospel Coalition, and other publications. His podcast, Truth Over Tribe, is one of Apple's top news commentary podcasts, featuring interviews with leading Christian thinkers, writers, and scholars. He's the co-author of Truth Over Tribe: Pledging Allegiance to the Lamb, Not the Donkey or the Elephant and Joyful Outsiders: Six Ways to Live Like Jesus in a Disorienting Culture. Patrick received a Master of Divinity from Covenant Theological Seminary and pastors a politically diverse church, The Crossing. He and his wife, Emily, have two children.

Dr. Mark Turman is the Executive Director of Denison Forum and Vice President of Denison Ministries. Among his many duties, Turman is most notably the host of The Denison Forum Podcast. He is also the chief strategist for DF Pastors, which equips pastors and church leaders to understand and transform today’s culture.

Denison Forum exists to thoughtfully engage the issues of the day from a biblical perspective through The Daily Article email newsletter and podcast, The Denison Forum Podcast, as well as many books and additional resources.

Join Dr. Mark Turman, executive director of Denison Forum, in a profound discussion with J. Warner Wallace on the latest episode of the Denison Forum podcast. Wallace, a celebrated cold case homicide detective and best-selling author, discusses the themes of his new book, The Truth in True Crime: What Investigating Death Teaches Us About the Meaning of Life.

They explore humanity's obsession with drama, the nature of truth and grace, and the deep implications of holding justice and mercy in balance within the Christian faith. This episode offers rich insights into cultural and spiritual identity, humility, and provides practical tools to help listeners think biblically, live holy, and serve redemptively.

(00:57): Society's Obsession with Drama

(02:39): Interview with Jim Wallace: True Crime and Christianity

(04:29): Jim Wallace's Journey to Faith

(11:00): The Human Condition and Need for a Savior

(17:59): Identity and Trauma

(32:21): Exploring Hope and Mortality

(34:47): Christian Worldview and Hope

(38:46): Humility: The Secret to Flourishing

(45:02): The Dangers of Celebrity Culture

(51:18): Balancing Justice and Mercy

(01:00:18): Concluding Thoughts and Recommendations

Episode Transcript (PDF)

Cold Case Christianity

The Truth in True Crime

Proving Christianity: Homicide detective J. Warner Wallace discusses updated, expanded “Cold-Case Christianity”

Cold-Case Christianity: A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels

'The Truth in True Crime: What Investigating Death Teaches Us About the Meaning of Life

J. Warner Wallace is Dateline-featured cold-case homicide detective, popular national speaker, and best-selling author. Relying on more than two decades of investigative experience, Wallace provides the tools needed to investigate the claims of Christianity and make a convincing case for the truth of the Christian worldview.

Dr. Mark Turman is the Executive Director of Denison Forum and Vice President of Denison Ministries. Among his many duties, Turman is most notably the host of The Denison Forum Podcast. He is also the chief strategist for DF Pastors, which equips pastors and church leaders to understand and transform today’s culture.

Denison Forum exists to thoughtfully engage the issues of the day from a biblical perspective through The Daily Article email newsletter and podcast, The Denison Forum Podcast, as well as many books and additional resources.

Joshua S. Porter (stage name Josh Dies) joins Mark Legg to discuss deconstruction, offensive Christian art, orthodoxy, objective truth and relativism, and how Jesus’ ministry was like a rebellion. 

Josh Porter begins by defining deconstruction, and why we can’t neglect the emotional, personal side of the issue (1:20). They talk about why Death to Deconstruction feels dark and provocative, and the place of offensive, Christian art, and literature in church tradition (9:30). They move on to discuss how faithfulness is an act of rebellion, and how Jesus was radical (16:13). Porter discusses the book’s unique, but orthodox, perspectives and his own belief in pacificism (28:41).  They talk about why Porter personally arrived at orthodoxy and the process of his deconstruction (33:24). Although intellectual arguments are important, they consider the personal, emotional side of the deconstruction movement (44:59). The end by reflecting on truth itself, relativism, worldview, and apologetics (52:06).

• Death to Deconstruction: Reclaiming Faithfulness as an Act of Rebellion - Joshua S. Porter

• Joshuasporter.com
• “Deconstructing your faith? Feeling deeply hurt by the church? Read Death to Deconstruction by Joshua S. Porter” - Mark Legg
• “Digging into doubts and how to minister to Gen Z: A conversation with Barnabas Piper” - Podcast
• ‘“Where the Light Fell”: A conversation with Philip Yancey’ - Podcast
• Showbread - Spotify

Mark Legg is an Associate Editor for Denison Forum. He graduated from Dallas Baptist University in 2021 with a degree in Philosophy and Biblical Studies.

Joshua S. Porter (Josh Dies) is the lead singer of the American Christian hardcore punk rock band, Showbread. Though the band disbanded, he continues to take on alternative musical side projects. He is a prolific fiction writer, and pastor of teaching and creative vision at Van City Church. 

Craig Denison and Dr. Mark Turman share how to cultivate a personal relationship with God through daily devotionals, prayer, and worship, how the First15 devotional was created, and how to hear God’s voice in your life. 

Craig Denison opens by talking about being Dr. Denison’s son, how he made his faith his own, and his early career as a musician and worship leader (3:22). Then they talk about his heart behind writing First15, the daily devotional available for free (7:31). They discuss the idea of personal, devotional time with the Lord (11:00), and how to discern the voice and will of God in prayer (16:36). Then they consider how God wants us to both rely on him and grow to make our own decisions, guided by the wisdom that he’s taught us (22:07). They talk about why Craig Denison crafted First15 the way he did, and how to worship God with your whole being (24:16). They discuss how to cultivate a personal relationship with God, and how it can differ from person to person (35:10) Craig Denison closes by encouraging listeners to start now in alone time with God and start somewhere, regardless of your life circumstances (41:47).

• First15, daily devotionals by Craig Denison
• First15 app

Dr. Mark Turman is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church. 

Craig Denison, son of Dr. Jim Denison, is a speaker, songwriter, worship leader, and the author of First15 daily devotional – helping almost 2 million believers a month in more than 200 countries connect with God in daily worship, reading, and prayer. Craig also serves as the Chief Innovation Officer of Denison Ministries.

Philip Yancey, Dr. Mark Turman, and Gerald Griffin discuss the good and bad of the local church, the dangers of fundamentalism, Yancey’s personal life story, and the power of memoirs. 

Dr. Mark Turman begins by introducing Philip Yancey, thanking him for his personal impact (0:10). They talk about what prompted Yancey’s memoir, Where the Light Fell, and they talk about parallels between their own lives (5:13). Then, they discuss the spiritual abuse that takes place in many churches and how that was part of Yancey’s story (10:49). Yancey talks about when he realized how backwards his church was—and that was seeing how wrong racism was (14:44). They talk about fundamentalism and why Yancey continues to ascribe to evangelicalism even after abandoning fundamentalism (18:27). Yancey continues to share his testimony and why he started writing books (25:30). They talk about the local church and Yancey’s older brother (33:05). They discuss the power of memoirs and the message Yancey wants to come through—especially to Gen Z and those who’ve left the faith (44:36). They end by talking about Yancey’s dad and the trustworthiness of Jesus (51:30).    

• Where the Light Fell: A Memoir - Philip Yancey 
• Disappointment with God: Three Questions No One Asks Aloud - Philip Yancey 
• “The Denison Forum Podcast Episode 40: Digging into doubts and how to minister to Gen Z: A conversation with Barnabas Piper”- Denison Forum
• Philip Yancey’s blog, philipyancey.com 
• “3 reasons why churches fail at mental health” - Chris Legg

Mark Turman, DMin, is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church. 

Gerald Griffin is the pastor of Preston Ridge Baptist Church in Frisco, Texas. He received his MA in Christian Education from the Dallas Theological Society.

Philip Yancey's books have garnered 13 Gold Medallion Book Awards from Christian publishers and booksellers. He currently has 17 million books in print and is published in 50 languages worldwide. He’s still “in recovery” from a bad church upbringing, searching for the possibility of a faith rooted in grace instead of fear.

Philip Yancey began as an Editor and then Publisher for Campus Life magazine. In 1980 he and his wife moved to downtown Chicago where he began freelance writing. Yancey has written over 30 books, including A Companion in Crisis and his long-awaited memoir, Where the Light Fell. 

Dr. John Mark Caton, Paul Cobb, and Dr. Mark Turman discuss church safety, how to run a safety team with laypeople and specialists, and why church security is a hospitality ministry.  

Paul Cobb begins by addressing how we so often don’t think about safety at churches, and they explain what church safety should look like (2:23). They go over some stories of crime and medical emergencies that took place at their churches (6:25). Dr. Caton explains how he became aware as a pastor of the need for better church security (16:20). They go over the biblical foundation for smart church security (21:58). Cobb discusses the principle of victim avoidance and deescalation (33:43). They also point to the importance of churches having hospitable, friendly security teams (39:41). Cobb briefly talks about their firearm policy for churches, then they return to the importance of taking security seriously, and how lay people can be involved (50:16). 

• Congregational Security Inc. - Paul Cobb
• Century One Consulting
• Faith Based Security Network 
• “What does the Bible say about self-defense?” - Mark Legg
• “What does the Bible say about gun control?” - Mark Legg

Mark Turman, DMin, is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church. 

John Mark Caton, Ph.D., is the Senior Pastor at Cottonwood Creek Baptist Church for twenty-seven years and the author of several books. He received a Master of Theology from Criswell College, and a Master of Divinity with Biblical Languages degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He earned his Ph.D. from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in 2001.

Paul Cobb consults with churches for their security and safety needs. He’s worked in corporate America, serving in the banking industry, and data centers, and specializes in project management. He serves as an elder at Crosspoint Church in McKinney, Texas.

Dr. Jim Denison and Dr. Mark Turman discuss the roots of morality, whether America was founded as a Christian nation, how to lovingly disagree with family, and why the Bible is our ultimate source of truth. 

Dr. Mark Turman and Dr. Jim Denison discuss how culture flows from a people’s morality, and why morality is like a natural law (1:28). They talk about why everyone can’t escape truth and morality, how our deepest desires always become idols (7:05). They talk about whether a country can be moral without religion, and whether America was founded as a Christian nation (11:31). They turn to talk about discussing morality and politics with family at Thanksgiving, and love family over the long term (24:06). They discuss what Jesus means by loving him more than family (32:53). Dr. Denison leads listeners in how to pray for and talk to lost family members, and how to keep friendships beyond disagreements (45:05). Then, Dr. Denison closes by pointing to the Bible as being capital “T” truth as the foundation for our lives (51:11).

• “What does the Bible say about politics?” - Dr. Jim Denison
• Respectfully, I Disagree - Dr. Jim Denison

Jim Denison, Ph.D., is an author, speaker, and the CEO of Denison Ministries, which is transforming 6.8 million lives through meaningful digital content. 

Mark Turman, DMin, is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church.

Janet Denison talks with Dr. Mark Turman about her Advent devotional series, The Songs Tell the Story, why she wrote it, and shares her favorite hymn and how to make Christmas about Jesus. 

Janet Denison and Dr. Mark Turman discuss Janet Denison’s book, The Songs Tell the Story (along with the kid’s version), a Christmas devotional that explores the meaning and origin of our favorite holiday songs. They talk about how Janet wrote the devotional study and the history of Advent (1:02). Janet especially loves O Holy Night, and was surprised to discover its origins (6:10). They discuss why hymns were so important in history for the layperson to understand theology, and their own most profound experiences with hymns (14:42). They give insiders perspective on Christmas in the lives of ministers (20:58). They close by talking about how to use The Songs Tell the Story, and how to make the busy season focused on Jesus (28:47). 

• Foundations with Janet - brand of Denison Ministries
• The Songs Tell the Story - Janet Denison
• The Songs Tell the Story (kid edition) - Janet Denison
• Content to Be Good, Called to Be Godly - Janet Denison

Mark Turman, DMin, is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church. 

Janet Denison teaches others to live an authentic faith through her writing, speaking, and teaching ministry. She blogs weekly at FoundationsWithJanet.org and leads virtual and in-person Bible studies. She is also the author of The Songs Tell the Story and Content to Be Good, Called to Be Godly, among other books. Janet and her husband, Dr. Jim Denison, live in Dallas, Texas. When they’re not writing or ministering to others, they enjoy spending time with their grown children and their four still-growing grandchildren.

Mark Sayers, Mark Turman, and Mark Legg discuss the great shift the world is going through, the lingering effects of Covid, how the “gray zone” affects ministry, and how to remain a “non-anxious presence.”

Mark Sayers talks about his faith journey and how he started writing (2:14). The three Marks talk about the significance of our culture’s ongoing shift, and the anxiety that comes from it (8:08). Sayers discusses the role of the internet in that shift, and the “hardware” change our culture is going through, focusing on the effects of Covid (12:50). They turn to discuss the culture’s widespread sense of false security, and how abundance leads to us trusting God less (27:16). Sayers digs further into the idea of the “gray zone,” and why confusion leads to anxiety and fear, and how the Bible applies to those struggles (32:14). Sayers ends by discussing the importance of leadership, and why God’s presence is critical in times of transition (43:19).

• A Non-Anxious Presence: How a Changing and Complex World will Create a Remnant of Renewed Christian Leaders - Mark Sayers
• “How to lead in an unstable culture: Mark Sayers points to the true stronghold in “A Non-anxious Presence” - Mark Legg
• “Exhausted by the news? You may be ‘doomscrolling’”- Mark Legg
• The Coming Tsunami - Jim Denison, Ph.D. 

Dr. Mark Turman is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church. 

Mark Legg is the Associate Editor for Denison Forum. He graduated from Dallas Baptist University in 2021 with a degree in Philosophy and Biblical Studies.

Mark Sayers is the senior leader of Red Church in Melbourne, Australia. He is passionate about spiritual renewal and the future of the church. Mark is the author of a number of books including Strange Days and Reappearing Church.  Mark lives in Melbourne with his wife, Trudi, his daughter, Grace, and twin boys, Hudson and Billy.