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When most writers think about ghostwriting, they think books. But there's a huge opportunity to ghost for business leaders who need content... articles, blog posts, speeches and more. In this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob is talking with Allison Evelyn (Ally) about how she pivoted from Day Rates and standard copy projects to ghost writing for clients—and how she's leveraging that work to ghostwrite books in the future. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Allison's Website Allison's Instagram Get her freebie: Ghostwriter Gold The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Transcript: Rob Marsh:  When you think of ghost writing, do you think of books? If so, you’re thinking small. This is The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve talked with several copywriters, from time to time, over the past eight years who have talked about ghost writings. Most of those episodes focused on large projects like ghostwriting books—the in-depth process for writing a book and connecting with the kiinds of clients who need help from someone who can write their book. But ghost writing is more than that. Ghost writing includes any project where a writer steps into the shoes of their client to write something in their name. It can be blog posts, articles published online, emails, webinar scripts and more.  When you look beyond the book world, the opportunity for ghost writers is huge. Landing these clients isn’t dramatically different from the way that you find, pitch and close regular clients… though there are differences. Usually, as a ghost writer, you’re not writing for lower level employees. Rather, you’re writing for founders, CEOs and other high-level thinkers, so your work needs to be able to reflect that. In fact, your pitches may need to include ideas and insights that a client can use to show up as a thought-leader in their business and niche. Landing work with a ghost-writing clients means you need to show up and be recognized at this higher level. My guest for this week is Allison Evelyn, that’s her professional name— she mostly goes by Ally. Ally’s been on the podcast before when we talked about an earlier version of her business. Over the past four or five years, the kind of work she does and the kinds of clients she works with has changed quite a bit. When we recorded that earlier episode, Ally was a member of The Copywriter Think Tank. She also taught several workshops about day rates and the kind of work copywriters can get done on those kinds of projects (one of those workshops is in The Copywriter Underground today). With all the changes she’s seen in her business and her personal life, I was excited to catch up with Ally and learn more about her role as a ghostwriter for some prominent online voices. I wish we could talk about a few of them by name, but as a ghost writer, you usually need to stay behind the scenes so your clients can shine. Even if you’re not interested in ghost writing for clients, a lot of what Ally shares in this interview about working with clients, applies to the normal back and forth with all clients and if you put her suggestions to work in your business, I promise, you’ll be more successful. Make sure you take notes as you listen to this  one. As usual, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. No matter what kind of copywriting business you want for yourself, The Underground is packed with resources to show up as a business owner—not just a freelancer, find clients, and solve big problems that clients are happy to pay big money to get off their plates. From copywritingn and business templates to get you started (including a legal document and a proven onboarding process) to workshops to help you build your authority, attract clients, create products and services your clients want to buy, and more—The Underground is like a starter-kit for your business… or a complete busin...

A lot of copywriters want to expand their businesses beyond client work. But what does it take to do that? How do you come up with a new offer? And how  do you test whether your audience actually wants it? Ross O'Lochlainn is my guest for the 439th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. He shares what it takes to come up with and validate a new offer. We also talked about how he found his first clients (and idea that works today) and how A.I. is affecting marketing and a lot more. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: Ross' Website The Client Studio How to Write Like a MoFo 10 Energizing Hook Frames The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  How do you go from copywriter or content writer to problem solver and irresistible offer maker for your clients? This is The Copywriter Club Podcast. A lot of copywriters jump into client work with both feet, they find some success and create a business that makes money, but also find that it takes a lot of time they may have been hoping to use for non-work activities. Spending time with family. Having lunch with a friend. Or taking in a movie in the middle of the day. Serving clients is time-intensive whether you’re doing research, writing copy, managing the client relationship, or looking for and pitching your next client. And of course, there’s the bookkeeping and marketing and the other basic office stuff that takes up time. It’s pretty common that copywriters tell me they want to change up their business a bit so they have more time for the personal things they want to fit into their days. But the constant stream of client work makes it hard to fit in the other options like products for your niche or templatized services ready to buy off the shelf and easy to fulfill on. And once you have an offer you want to make… how do you test whether it will work with your audience? How do you find the problems you can solve or the gains your potential clients want to get? On this episode you’re going to hear about a process that can help with that validation and how you identify not just the problem, but the kind of client you want to work with on these non-copy products. My guest for this week is Ross O’Lochlainn. I met Ross a few years ago when he came to our Copywriter Club in Real Life Event in Brooklyn. Since then, Ross has built a pretty unique business where he works a few hours a day helping his clients solve big problems. Then he spends his free time training in Brazilian Ju Jitsu and spending time with his wife. Ross is a copywriter but he does far more than just write copy. He’s become an expert in client attraction, moving customers into high-paid coaching opportunities and like I said a moment ago, solving big marketing problems. From the outside, it appears to be a great business model, so I wanted to see how Ross built that business and what we can learn from his approach. As we talked Ross also shared the idea that having a product is not enough. Having a lead magnet is not enough. There’s some alchemy to making the elements work together to generate a “lead with intent”. The intent here makes a ton of difference. Finding “perfect fit” prospects to join your email isn’t easy. And Ross shares how he does it. Oh, and we talk about A.I. in this one too. You’ll want to listen to this episode right up to the closing credits. It’s a good one. As usual, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. This episode is all about creating a business that works for you and provides you with the time you need for the life you want to live. And The Underground is packed with resources to help you gain confidence and help your clients solve big problems like Ross does. From templates to get you started (including a legal document and a proven onboarding process) to workshops to help you build your authority, attract clients,

Using social media to find clients can be exhausting. Writers tend to focus on the "media" and use it as a broadcast platform that requires post after post and what at least one marketing guru has called "Content Shock". What if you focused on the "social" part of social media and used it to foster real relationships with prospects and clients? That's what's been working for Esai Arasi, our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast.  Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Esai's LinkedIn Esai's Instagram The Business of Expertise The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Looking for an approach to social media that doesn’t require you to post three times a day or more? This is The Copywriter Club Podcast. The old approach to social media was to post content—photos and video with clever captions that invite comments and likes—is hard to keep up with. If you don’t have a team of content creators and algorythm watchers to keep up with the latest thing, you burn out or lose interest or eventually realize that the effort you are putting in is not being rewarded by the leads and clients you are looking for. Most of us are on social media to get leads. But how’s that working out for you? Most content writers or copywriters posting on Instagram or X/Twitter or LinkedIn are spending a lot of time for very little payoff. And that’s because social media is great at helping foster connections and relationships, but not all that great at selling organically. I’m not saying it can’t be done or that no one’s doing it. Some are. But it’s not easy. My guest for this week’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Esai Arasi. And she argues you don’t need to post every day or every week or even every month. Tools like ManyChat help move followers who are interested in what you do from posts to DMs. Using social media to foster relationships you have with previous clients and referal partners is also useful. Those things don’t disappear into the feed after a few minutes. They endure. And switching up your approach to focus on these kinds of behaviors may bring you better results than you’ve been seeing lately. Stick around as we talk about how to do this. As usual, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. We’re talking about social media and getting clients to work with you today and it just happens that there are additional resources in The Copywriter Underground designed to help you do both of those things. Workshops on using tools like Pinterest and YouTube to grow your audience and attract clients. Still other workshops on engaging prospects on LinkedIn and other social media platforms so you can build relationships that result in high-paying client work. Not to mention resources to help you land a “real” job if that’s more up your alley. And that’s just the beginning… there are dozens of templates—including a legal document worth hundreds of dollars—ready for you to borrow and use in your own business, three entire courses on selling, writing proposals clients can’t say no to, and building your authority so clients seek you out, not the other way around. Plus dozens of other workshops, monthly coaching, regular copy critiques and more. You can see what it includes at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And now, my interview with Esai Arasi… Esai, welcome back to the podcast. It's been a little while since we talked on the podcast. You and I have talked offline a few times since then, but catch us up on what's been going on in your business. I think on the podcast, last time we talked was like 2020. So it's been a little while. Esai Arasi: It's been a while. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me again, Rob. And I'm really excited to catch up on what my growth has been like because when I was last on your podcast, I was still working with you inside the think tank.

Finding a "real" job isn't easy. But more copywriters and content writers are interested in trying. In this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I spoke with Copy Chief Matt Snyder who has hired lots of copywriters over the past couple of years. He shared the mistakes copywriters are making and what it takes to get the attention of a hiring manager. Even if you don't want a "real" job, what Matt shares in this episode will help you connect with high-paying clients and land more work. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Matt's newsletter Matt's LinkedIn The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Want to land a real job as a copywriter or content writer? It’s not easy. But help is on the way. This is The Copywriter Club Podcast. Most of the listeners to this podcast are freelancers or contract writers. If you’re like them, you generally work on projects or retainers for a variety of clients. And you’re good at it. But some writers crave the stability that comes with a regular job—either part-time or full-time—with an actual employer paying wages and maybe even providing benefits. A handful of freelancers I’ve worked with over the years have dipped their toes into the corporate world to work primarily for a single client, or for those who are looking for part-time jobs, have landed work that provides some security and regular income to go along with the unpredictabilty of freelancing.  But finding those jobs isn’t easy. They’re out there for sure, but within hours of a copywriting or content writing job posting on LinkedIn or any other job board, the hiring managers receive hundreds of applications. Getting found in that slush pile isn’t easy—even for the very best writers. Recently in The Copywriter Underground, I invited a friend of mine who worked for decades as a job placement specialist for creatives, to share her best advice for copywriters looking for “real” jobs. That training is inside The Underground now. When I announced we would be hosting that training, another copywriter, Matt Snyder, reached out to offer his advice. Matt is the Head Copywriter at a digital agency and works with a team of five or six writers. He hires a lot. And he sees a ton of applications, resumés and other creative attempts to get his attention. So when he offered, I suggested we record our discussion and share it here on the podcast. That’s what this episode is. Now, I know I said this is about getting hired to real job with a company. But everything Matt shares is applicable to getting hired by freelance clients as well. I think every copywriter, every content writer, and every freelancer writer who listens to this episode will get a lot from what Matt has to say. So stay tuned. As usual, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. We’re talking about getting work today, so I should probably mention the resources available in The Underground that will help you do that. Starting with the workshop with my friend, Jessica, the placement specialist. Her advice will make a difference if you’re applying for what we tend to refer to as “real” jobs. We also have workshops from experts like Laura Belgray who shares how you can stop waiting in line and “duck under” the velvet ropes holding you back. And Parris Lampropoulos who shared the exact pitch he used to get his first five clients, then how he went on to double his income every year for the next five years—do the math, that’s a lot. There’s also our in-house training about ways to find clients and an entire course on sales. Plus dozens of other workshops, templates, copy critiques, monthly coaching, and more. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And now, my interview with Matt Snyder… Matt, Welcome to the podcast. I was checking our back episodes because I swear we've had you on the podcast before and turns out we haven't.

Writing Video Sales Letters is an art. It's not enough to simply record someone reading a regular sales page. They depend more on stories and keeping listeners engaged because you can't afford to lose your viewer's attention. In the 436th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I spoke with Svet Dimitrov about this challenge and he shared why you need to take a different approach when writing VSLs. We covered a lot more than that, so click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Svet's LinkedIn Svet's Facebook The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you applied for 200 different projects or jobs, each time sending a new cover letter with your pitch, I imagine you would learn a thing or two about what works and what doesn’t work in the application process. That’s what Svet Dimitrov, my guest on this episode of the podcast, did. But that’s not even the reason I asked Svet to join me on the podcast. I heard another copywriter talking about how Svet is one of the best VSL copywriters in the world today—VSLs are video sales letters and they’re different from regular sales letters because you can’t afford to lose your viewer’s attention ever. We talk about that in this episode and what you can do to improve your own VSL writing skills. If you want to write VSLs, don’t skip this episode. We also talked about Svet’s contrarian advice that copywriters—especially copywriters who are just starting out—should not have a website. Obviously, that’s not the way most of us think. Websites are there to build credibility and help clients see the various ways we can help them. But Svet argues, and I think I agree, that there is a better approach that connects personally with your prospects. You may want to stick around to here what Svet does. As you might expect, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. I’ve completely rebuilt the content vault to make it more useable and useful and in the process I’ve added more than 70 differnt  workshops to it. And there are even more coming.  Workshops taught by expert copywriters like Parris Lampropoulos, Joanna Weibe, Stefan Georgi, Jack Forde, Chanti Zak, Laura Belgray and dozens of others. And it’s not just copywriters, we’ve got marketing experts teaching how to build funnels, how to market using tools like Linkedin and Pinterest, how to put yourself in the right mindset to succeed and so much more. And that’s just the workshops. There are dozens of templates, a community of like-minded writers holding each other accountable, and monthly coaching with me. It’s time you joined us inside. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And now, my interview with Svet Dimitrov… Svet, I'm thrilled to be able to chat with you. I'd love to start just by hearing how you got where you are. How did you become a copywriter? Before we started recording, I mentioned that I've heard your name because people have said you are one of the best VSL copywriters in the world right now. So how'd you get there? Svet Dimitrov: Thank you first for inviting me, Rob. It's a pleasure to be here. And yeah, my story goes back, I would say, probably Probably by the time I was doing my master's degree actually, I was really struggling. That was 2009-2010 to finish my master's thesis. And I did read, so this was in the era when you couldn't find a lot of stuff on Google. So I had to sift through a ton of pages, I think I went to like the 10th page of Google, which probably nobody goes there these days, just to find, just to do research. But I think that's when I really started to understand that research is really important. I appreciate it, love the game, although I was struggling to find a good way to express my thoughts in my master thesis. And I think I sift through like maybe 10 physical books. Then I mentioned research on Google. I think I probably went through more than 100 PDF...

It's pretty common to hear copywriters recommend that you study old sales pages and even sales emails, but what about old magazine ads? The kind that are printed on paper in actual periodicals? Today, where so much advertising happens online or in your social media feed, Ad writing is a bit of a lost art form. But that doesn't mean we can't learn from it. In the 435th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed Lewis Folkard who breaks down old ads for his newsletter readers. And he shared what copywriters have to learn from his approach. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Lewis' Website The Olive Ad Breakdown The Silk Cut ad The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Copywriters seem to revere old books by Eugene Schwartz and Vic Schwab. But what about old ads? This is The Copywriter Club Podcast. If you’ve been a copywriter for more than a few weeks, you’ve probably heard other more experienced copywriters mention books like Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz, How to Write an Advertisement by Victor Schwab or Tested Advertising Methods by John Caples. They make up a large part of the official cannon of copywriting. In fact, David Ogilvy once said no one should be allowed to write a single word of copy until they had finished reading Caple’s book seven times. Of course there are new books that ought to be added… books by Joe Sugarman, Ann Handley and Matthew Dix.  In addition to books, there are a lot of copywriters who like to study old sales pages. They create swipe files full of them. I do this. My swipe file has more than 1,000 differnent sales pages I’ve collected over the last decade. Some copywriters even suggest you hand write sales pages as part of your learning. I don’t go that far, but I think you can learn a lot by studying the persuasion techniques that copywriters have used in their work. But what about ads? One page with an image, headline, and a few lines of copy?  Are they worth studying? And what can we learn from them? My guest on this episode is Lewis Folkard. Lewis has made a bit of a name for himself by picking old print ads from advertising award books, analyzing them, and writing about why they are effective or not. Lewis’ breakdowns are more than interesting reading, they’re mini-lessons on copywriting, attention-getting and persuasion. He told me why he does it and how it’s impacted his business in this interview. Stick around to hear what he had to say. As you might expect, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. I’ve mentioned that I’ve been rebuilding the content vault and adding a ton of additional workshops to it. Workshops taught be expert copywriters like Parris Lampropoulos, Joanna Weibe, Stefan Georgi, Jack Forde, Chanti Zak, Laura Belgray and dozens of others. And it’s not just copywriters, we’ve got marketing experts teaching how to build funnels, how to market using tools like Linkedin and Pinterest, how to put yourself in the right mindset to succeed and so much more. And that’s just the workshops. There are dozens of templates, a community of like-minded writers holding each other accountable, and monthly coaching with me. It’s time you joined us inside. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And now, my interview with Lewis Folkard… Lewis, welcome to the podcast. I would love to hear your story and how you became a copywriter. Lewis Folkard: Okay, well, I mean, I guess a lot of copywriters say very similar things in the sense that I feel like I've always had an interest in people and communications. I mean, some of the earlier nonfiction books that I read were kind of about human psychology and communications. I think there was a How to Win Friends and Influence People and another one by Brian Tracy, I believe. But I was young and just always enjoyed learning about how the human mind works and...

Everyone starts from scratch. But what if you had to earn six figures a year from the very first day you were in business? That's the challenge Jon Morrow had. He's my guest for the 434th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. I asked him about how he did it. We also talked about how he is using A.I. in his business (his approach is pretty good, which is what you'd expect given he's been using it for more than ten years). We also talked about what he would do if he had to start over... he suggested a strategy I'd never heard before. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: SmartBlogger The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Would you be willing to work for free—for two full years—in exchange for a simple favor? This is The Copywriter Club Podcast. You already know this but succeeding as a content writer or a copywriter is not easy. And building a reputation when you’re just starting out is a huge challenge. But what if you knew that you needed to earn six figures a year, beginning on the day you launch your business. No time to ramp up. No time to figure out client acquisition. No time to create and test the products and services you offer. You have no choice but to succeed at a high-level from day one. What would you do? That’s the challenge Content Strategist and founder of SmartBlogger, Jon Morrow, faced. But he did it. He succeeded in creating a six-figure business from day one. Jon shares how he did it and why it was necessary in the first few minutes of our interview. And once you hear what he says, you may find yourself without an excuse for accomplishing big things in your business. Because if Jon can do it with the limitations he faced, you can almost certainly do it even if the world is conspiring against you. I didn’t expect this when we set up the interview, but what Jon shares about how he uses A.I. in his business, to write sales letters, create courses, and run his businesses will either frighten you or inspire you to step up your writing game. His approach is impressive. As you listen to this episode, ask yourself these questions: What are you willing to give up in order to get what you really want? How are you diversifying and changing your business in the face of A.I.? What can you do differently to make sure your approach to email actually makes money for your business or your clients? And what can you do to create more connection and community with the people you want to work with? But before we get to all that, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. we’ve been rebuilding our content vault and adding a ton of additional workshops to it. These new workshops are jammed full of practical ideas for building your writing business, creating new products like VIP days, lead magnets and more, getting attention and building your authority, showing up on social media with the right content to attract your ideal clients and lots more. The more templates and training we add to The Underground, the more I realize there is a crazy amount of valuable resources, in addition to monthly coaching and regular copy critiques ready for you to use. And you can get immediate access for less than you spend on a dinner out with your family. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And now, my interview with Jon Morrow… Jon, welcome to the podcast. As I mentioned just before we started recording, you've been on my list for a long time to have as a guest. I think I've followed you or known of you for close to 15, maybe even more years than that. We'd like to start with your story. So I'm guessing that there might be one or two people in our audience who don't know who you are. So tell us how you got to where you are. Jon Morrow: So yeah, my story has many chapters. So the thing about me that's unusual is that I have muscular dystrophy and I can't really move any part of m...

One of the biggest challenges writers face today—and it's a repeated theme on the podcast—is getting noticed by clients and prospects. In the 433rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I spoke with Content Strategist Erica Schneider about how you can cut the fluff and get noticed by the people you want to work with. This is a good one, you won't want to miss. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Erica's Website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Transcript: Rob Marsh:  What to get noticed? Want to stand out? Want clients to find you instead of the other way around? This is The Copywriter Club Podcast. A lot of the conversations on this podcast focus on the problem of getting noticed… standing out from the crowd of a million other writers—many of whom are willing to work for a lot less than you, some of whom, though hopefully not many, are simply better writers than you. There are lots of ways to do it… posting content on social media platforms, showing up at events, creating podcasts and video channels on still more platforms, building an email list… the many ways of getting noticed goes on and on. And yet… many of us, maybe most of us, still struggle to break though. There’s some unfairness in the idea that the most successful copywriters aren’t necessarily the very best writers or persuaders… they’re often the best at getting and keeping the attention of the clients they want to work with. So how do you become the writer who gets the attention and the clients. Often it comes down to creating content that is positioned to attract your clients on the platforms where they spend their time. And to share the best ideas for creating that content, my guest on today’s episode is Erica Schneider. We talked about a lot of ideas and insights to try in your own business—everthing from the mindset shift you need to make related to your personal brand and how to think differently about content in the age of growing competition and A.I. to Erica’s favorite hook frameworks and how to use them and why you absolutely need an email list even if you don’t plan to ever send an email. This is all good stuff so I hope you’ll stick around to hear it… But before we get to all that, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. I’ve spent the few weeks rebuilding our content vault and adding a lot of additional training to it. New workshops include how to add a VIP day to your services, how to create a new offer, how to get more done, how to do research, how to develop your own frameworks, how to conduct discovery calls, how to get more referrals, how to build an email list, how to create a launch sequence and dozens more. The more we add the more I think we really need to raise the price because there is a crazy amount of helpful templates, workshops, and even monthly coaching in The Underground. But for now you can still get in for less than you spend on a dinner out with your family. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And now, my interview with Erica Schneider… I'd love to get started just by hearing your story and how you got to where you are now as a coach, content maestro in some ways. You are an authority builder for so many people. You're doing a lot of things. So how did you get here? Erica Schneider: I am doing a lot of things. So I was the head of content at a B2B marketing agency. for four and a half years. I started there as a contract editor, then managing editor, then head of content. And I have loved writing my entire life, but I never knew how to make money from it until 2018, which is when I kind of stumbled into the content marketing world. And so I am a self-taught marketer. never went to school for marketing, never studied like copywriting, content writing, any of that stuff. I learned everything on the job. Um, but I also sort of always wanted to be a teacher. So growing up,

Do you write webinars? Sell with webinars? Work for clients who use webinars? If so, this interview is for you. Jason Fladlien is the copywriter behind the highest selling webinars in history. I asked him about whether webinars are still working today and the answer is part of this 432nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We also talked about how to be a better copywriter, how to create information products and a lot more. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Jason's Info Product Webinar One to Many (Jason's book) Jason's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  A few years ago I attended several mastermind events hosted by one of my mentors, Brian Kurtz. The were fantastic events. Each of these events featured several speakers sharing the strategies they use to succeed in whatever they were doing. One guest might share direct mail packages they used to sellout their services while another speaker might share copywriting techniques and yet another would walk through how to set up a research survey then share how they determine which answers are worth paying attention to and which answers could be ignored. I always walked away from these events buzzing with ideas to try.  At one of these events, Brian invited Jason Fladlien to speak. Jason is pretty well known in the online world as the expert who created the highest-ever selling webinar… he sold something like 60 million dollars worth of services on a single webinar.  He has personally written hundreds of webinars that have sold millions of dollars in courses, services, products and more. I used what Jason taught at that event to write our best-ever selling webinar. So it makes sense that Jason has been on my list of future potential guests for a long time. And we were finally able to get an interview with Jason. We definitely talked about webinars and what it takes to make them work—especially today when we’re hearing that webinars don’t work as well as they used to. Jason does a pretty good job of busting that myth. But that’s not all. Jason shares how he created his very first information product. It’s not as easy to do today as it was when Jason first started, but if you want to sell courses and other products, what Jason shares in this episode will definitely help you get started. I don’t think its an exageration to call this episode a masterclass in creating and selling your own products. There are a lot of copywriting insights here as well. But before we get to all that, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. I’ve spent the last week rebuilding our content vault and adding a lot of additional training to it. New workshops include how to add a VIP day to your services, how to create a new offer, how to get more done, how to do research, how to develop your own frameworks, how to conduct discovery calls, how to get more referrals, how to build an email list, how to create a launch sequence and dozens more. The more we add the more I think we really need to raise the price because there is a crazy amount of helpful templates, workshops, and even monthly coaching in The Underground. You can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And now, my interview with Jason Fladlien… Unfortunately, as we started recording this interview, we had some technical difficulties and we lost the first five, six minutes of the interview where Jason introduces himself and talks a little bit about how he got started as a copywriter and how he created an information product from scratch and started selling it for, I think, $7. He was originally creating content for just a couple of dollars per article when he started out and needed to learn copywriting in order to sell his services. So we're going to join the interview as I ask Jason how he became a copywriter, how he got good at the process of writing and where that t...

What does it mean to show up courageously in your life? Who exactly are you showing up for? Why is it important to keep showing up. In the 431st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob sat down with author and story teller, Jude Charles, to answer those questions and more. This episode is a bit different from the typical discussions we have on the podcast, but we think you're going to like it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Jude's Book (audio) Get The Questions The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  A couple of months ago, I scheduled a catch-up call with my friend Jude Charles. Jude has been a guest on the podcast and a speaker at several of our TCCIRL live events. But we hadn’t talked in several months so we hopped on Zoom to catch up on what we were both doing. During our catch-up, our discussion got personal and a bit vulnerable and we shared some of the things we were working on and working through. And we both realized we probably should have been recording the call because there are probably a few people who could benefit from the insights we were sharing. Some of the questions that came up included… What lights you up in your day-to-day life? Or in your work? Who are you showing up for? Who are you making a difference for with your work? And what do you do each day that requires courage?  It was too late to hit record on that discussion, but we scheduled a time to revisit some of these ideas and this time we did hit record. That’s what you’ll hear if you continue to listen in on this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This discussion is a bit different from the typical interview we usually share, but I think you’re going to like the change in topic and tone—at least for this episode so keep listening. But first, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. You’ve heard me talk about the monthly trainings—the next one happens this week and is all about how to land a “real job” for a client where you are their PT or FT copywriter. That’s happening tomorrow on the day this episode goes live. And of course it will be recorded and shared in The Underground training vault along with dozens of other trainings on building your authority and audience, on launch strategy, on building an email list, on research, on creating new products and services and so much more. To get your hands on all that training for less than you’ll spend on a single night out with your spouse or partner, visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And now, let’s go to our discussion with Jude Charles.  Welcome back to the podcast. You've been here before. You know the drill. You were on episode number 217, where you talked about the demonstration of proof. And then you came back for an ensemble episode, if I remember right, 279, where you were chatting a little bit about burnout with a couple of other people and just kind of talking about how copywriters can deal with that. You and I reconnected a couple of months ago and we were just chatting and I think it was, we were chatting. I can't remember which one of us said this, but we were like, we should be recording this. Cause it was a really, really good discussion. And so I'm thrilled to have you back. So we normally start out with your story, but since we've done that before, just kind of catch us up. What's been going on this last year or two? Jude Charles: Yeah. So I, Ironically, I think I've been going through a process of reinvention, maybe for the last, it feels like the last five years, it's probably been less than that. It started at TCC IRL, where we've talked about it. I don't know if we've ever talked about it online, but offline, we've talked about how you challenged me to get on stage and to share my expertise and what I had to offer. I was scared out of my mind the first time I did it. It was back in 2019.

How do you stand out in a sea of copy and content sameness? A USP (unique selling proposition) isn't enough. Neither is being different. My guest for the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is marketing strategist Louis Grenier, author of the new book, Stand the F*** Out. We talked about what it takes to position your business, find your people, and build a durable brand. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Louis' book and bonuses Louis' book on Amazon The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  The biggest question facing most people who own their own businesses is how do I stand out? How do I position my busines in a way that makes it easy for customers to find me—and more importantly, to know they want to work with me? What can I do to make them care? Those important questions are answered in the new book, Stand the F*** Out by Louis Grenier. And Louis is my guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. The topics we cover in our discussion are the kinds of things that help copywriters go from helping clients get the words right to helping clients sell more products, grow their businesses and as the title says: stand out of the crowd. This stuff isn’t easy. It can take years to learn. But if you stick around, the insights Louis shares will shortcut your learning curve Before we jump into this interview, I want to mention the guest trainings we have lined up in The Copywriter Underground this month one more time… the first one is focused on building connections with prospects and clients on social media without burning out. If you’re like me and struggle to show up on social media consistently, this one will change your approach entirely—and help you find a client. And by the way, a single new client could pay for your Underground membership, for the entire year, two or three times over. And the second workshop is all about landing a “real” in-house job—either part time or full time. A lot of copywriters want something a bit more stable than the string of clients they get as a freelancer. If that sounds like you, you need to hear the ideas this workshop will include. The presenter for this workshop was a talent placement expert for creatives. She’s helped hundreds of copywriters find so-called real jobs. What she’ll share is critical to know if you’re thinking about applying for these kinds of jobs and want to stand out from the crowd. Both of these workshops are exclusively available for members of The Copywriter Underground. If you want access to them plus more than 30 templates, 70+ other workshops and trainings, and monthly coaching and copy critiques from me… you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. If you’ve been thinking about trying out The Underground, now is the time to do it. The first workshop is tomorrow. Go to thecopywriterclub.com/tcu for more information. And now, let’s go to our interview with Louis Grenier.  I like to start by hearing your story, how you got to where you are. You're a marketing strategist, author of a fantastic book, Stand the F Out. I don't usually use that word. I do. But it stands out for sure. So tell us how you got here. Louis Grenier: Bonjour, bonjour. Thank you for having me on. And it feels like I'm part of podcasting royalty. So it's good to be invited on this podcast, listen to it a few times over the years. And it's funny how the copywriting discipline is is still thriving despite the fact that they were supposed to be dead a couple of years ago. So it's good to see that you're still fighting the good fight. So yeah, to answer your question, it started from a trip in Paris when I was 17. So that was 18 years ago. to visit one of my older brothers. And I saw this book on his shelf that was basically the French version of Influence by Cialdini. But it wasn't a translation of it.

What makes a good newsletter? How about "unfiltered stories and what we learn from them?" For this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed business strategist Kristin Kenzy, the writer and strategist behind the Drunk Business Advice newsletter. Kristin's formula for figuring out what makes a good story for sharing in email or newsletters is gold. As is her "accordion pitch" process. Don't miss this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Kristin's Newsletter The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Okay before we get into our interview… long time listeners are probably wondering, what’s up with the new music? For the past five-ish years, we’ve been using a bit of music composed for us by Addison Rice. But after so many years, it just felt like it was time for a change. So the music is different for the new year and we’ll see if we can’t go another five years or so with this new mix. On top of that, you’ve probably noticed that I’ve been hosting the podcast for the past six months without my one-time co-host Kira Hug. Enough people have asked what’s up with that, that it’s probably time to let you all know what’s up. I mentioned this briefly on one of our throwback episodes, but to make sure you don’t miss it… I wish there was a juicy story here, or a controversy, a messy falling out worthy of the pages of People magazine, but there’s not. Last year Kira told me that after seven years working on The Copywriter Club, that this project just didn’t light her up like it used to, and she was ready for a different kind of challenge. So we worked to slowly move her out of her daily role at The Copywriter Club. Kira’s still officiallly—legally—a partner behind the scenes, but is no longer working on Copywriter Club projects. We’re still friends. There was no drama… just time for a change.  At the time I considered ending the podcast, but whenever I mentioned ending the podcast to someone I trusted, they all said, “no, you can’t do that… this podcast is too important for writers who want a look into how other people are running their businesses.” And on top of that I really enjoy talking with copywriters and other marketing experts about this thing we all do. It’s still lighting me up and I’ve got some great guests coming in the next few weeks, so hopefully you’ll all stay tuned to see what’s coming next. I’m still committed to our original promise of sharing strategies and ideas you can steal and use in your own business. Speaking of great guests… my guest today is business strategist and story teller Kristin Kenzy. Kristin writes one of my favorite newsletters, Drunk Business Advice. In it, she combines interesting marketing take-aways with fantastic storytelling that makes me (and thousands of other readers) look forward to it each week. I wanted to talk with Kristin about her approach to finding and writing the stories she shares. The formula she uses to figure out if a story is worth telling is excellent and she walked me through during our interview. We also talked about why writers need to stop journaling and a better way to pitch prospects in person… something Kristin calls “accordian pitching”. It’s good stuff, so stay tuned to hear what she had to share. Before we jump into this interview, we’ve got some really great guest trainings lined up in The Copywriter Underground this month… one on building connections with prospects and clients without burning out on social media. If you’re like me and struggle to show up on social media consistently, this one will change your approach entirely. And a second training on landing a “real” in-house job—either part time or full time—if you are looking for something a little more stable than freelancing is. Ironicallly, copywriters are bad at telling our own career stories and this workshop will show you what to do if you want to land one ...

In another throwback episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we're taking a deeper look at goal setting and a proven process to help you get more done in 2025. Dave Ruel, the author of Done by Noon, walks through his framework for setting goals (or intentions) and making sure they happen—before noon. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Done by Noon by Dave Ruel 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman Get Dave’s workshop in The Copywriter Underground The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you’re listening to this episode as it goes live, today is the final day of 2024. Many of us are looking forward to the new year and new opportunities to grow and get things done. I’m not a big fan of resolutions. They tend to be good for a few weeks, but after 4 weeks are often forgotten. It’s even a cliche now to mention how full gyms are on February 1 compared to January 1st. The drop off shows how ineffective resolutions can be for most of us. So what does work? Well, the past year or two I’ve focused more on behaviors rather than goals or resolutions. That is, making time to exercise every morning without a goal to lose weight or compete in a marathon or bench press a certain weight. Making time to do something every day is something I can do. This applies to other goals as well, like time spent reading rather than having a goal to read 24 books a year. By scheduling time to read every day, I can reach the 24 books read without setting a goal.  So that begs the question, how do you make sure you spend your time on the activities and behaviors that will get you closer to the person you want to be? A few years ago, we asked something similar of Dave Ruel, the author of Done by Noon. That book is one of my favorites when it comes to getting stuff done. My other favorite takes an almost completely opposite view of time management and getting stuff done and that’s Oliver Burkeman’s 4000 Weeks. I’ll link to both in the shownotes in case you want to check them out. For today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I went back into the archives to resurrect this mostly forgotten interview with Dave Ruel. And while he does talk about goals, he shares a framework for making sure your schedule includes plenty of time for the behaviors you want to implement into your life. If you’re looking to get more done in 2025, some of his ideas will help. Before I share what Dave told us, after this interview we realized that we wanted to go deeper with Dave and his system. So we recorded a workshop where he walks through everything what he shares during this interview… at an even deeper level. That workshop is one of the dozens of business focused trainings available right now in The Copywriter Underground. Coming up in January of 2025, we’ll be adding several more, including a workshop for copywriters who want to work either part time or full time with a client. My friend Jessica, who spent 2 decades as a recruiter for a creative talent agency will share why copywriters are so bad at resumes and cover letters and what they need to do differently if they want to land a so-called “real” job. And Esai Arasi will be sharing how to build relationships with prospects at scale, without burning out on social media. Both of these workshops are happening in January and are completely free for Copywriter Underground members. If you want them… along with the time management workshop from Dave Ruel, go to thecopywriterlcub.com/tcu now to join. And like last week, you’ll hear Kira Hug asking questions on this episode as it is a throwback to 2020 when she and I were co-hosting this podcast. Okay, with that let’s jump in with Dave Ruel as he tells us how he became an entrepreneur focused on sharing better time management strategies… ———— Dave Ruel:  I’m going to go back to my days as a fitness athlete.

Becoming a great copywriter is not easy. But there are things you can do that 99% of other writers will not invest the time to accomplish. In the 427th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we talked with copywriter Jason Rutkowski about the process of mastering copy, how to find a mentor, and all the effort that goes into the process of becoming great. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Parris’ Book List The Single Best Way to Get Clients On Writing Well by William Zinsser The Brilliance Breakthrough by Eugene Schwartz The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  It’s the holidays and if this year is like most of our past years, that means fewer of our regular listeners are tuning in for the next week or two. So instead of bringing on a new guest you won’t have the opportunity to listen to and learn from, I’ve gone into the archive to uncover an excellent old episode that you probably missed. And if you did hear it back when it aired a few years ago, you might have forgotten it. But honestly, this is one of our best interviews about mastery and the process of becoming an in-demand copywriter. The guest for this episode is Jason Rutkowski. At the time we interviewed him, Jason was writing for some of the top financial and health clients. So he’s got a lot of great, timeless advice.  You’ll also hear Kira in this episode. Long time listeners will know Kira is a co-founder of The Copywriter Club and until the middle of this year, my co-host for The Copywriter Club Podcast. Some of you have been asking, where she went? Earlier this year, Kira shared that after seven years of building The Copywriter Club, she was interested in pursuing some other challenges. So while she’s still offically a partner behind the scenes, she hasn’t been actively involved in the podcast and our programs for the past six months. Everything’s fine. There was no messy break-up… and who knows, if the right opportunity presents itself, we may work on something together again. We’ll see. So, while you’ll hear Kira’s voice, she is still working on other stuff for now. One more thing before we get to the interview, you’ve heard me talking about The Copywriter Accelerator Fast Track and that in the coming weeks it will be retired forever. This is the proven business building program used by hundreds of copywriters to start and grow their businesses.  Many used it to create six figure businesses. A few have earned seven figures since completing the program. And I know it will work for you too. But time is running out to get the strategies, insights and ideas we share in this business-building program. So go to thecopywriterclub.com/fasttrack now to learn more—and if its a fit for you, join so you can build a successful copywriting business for yourself. And now, enjoy this throwback interview with Jason Rutkowski. Hey Jason. Kira Hug:  Welcome Jason. Jason Rutkowski:  Hey Kira, hey Rob. Kira Hug:  How’s it going? Glad you’re here. Jason Rutkowski:  Oh no, I’m excited. I haven’t done one of these in a while, so I was excited to do it with you. Rob Marsh:  Definitely took a little time to get our schedules aligned. We’ve been trying to make this happen for a little while, because we know a little bit about you and where you write and we think it’ll be a great conversation, so we’re glad to have you here. Jason Rutkowski:  Yeah, definitely. Kira Hug:  All right, so let’s kick this off. Jason, how did you end up as a copywriter? Jason Rutkowski:  Okay, I’ll give you the quick story about this. I was 19. I just finished my freshman year of college. I got an internship at a normal 9-to-5 job. And I realized I hated it. I was like, oh man. I saw all these people who worked in an office, you know, 30, 40 years; I’m like, is this really going to be my life? And also at the same exact time,

The world is drowning in content—most of it bad. So when a creator is doing something different, something that really stands out and challenges the rest of us to up our game, we pay attention. That's why Content Strategist Heather Parady is our guest for the 426th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Heather shared her unique approach to content creation and lays out a roadmap for anyone else who wants to up their content game. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff we mentioned to check out: The Copywriter Accelerator Fast Track Save the Cat by Blake Snyder Heather's Website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Content is everywhere. Almost every business knows that content is one avenue that helps prospects discover and connect with them. I’m not telling you anything new here, most copywriters work with clients who need this kind of content whether it’s on social media, regular emails, videos, workshop and webinar content. We even use it ourselves. So when I discover someone who is making cotent that stands out or is even a little bit different, I pay attention. And today’s guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast fits that description. Hi I’m Rob Marsh and today I’m speaking with Content Strategist, Heather Parady. I’ve been watching Heather’s content for a while now and I am impressed. She connects ideas from interviews and books and all kinds of other sources to create short video content that grabs attention and teaches with a story, almost always gives me something to think about. This is one of my favorite interviews this year and I think you’re not only going to enjoy it, but you’ll have a bunch of takeaways to apply to your own business and content creation. Before we jump in, as we wrap up the year I need to let you know that The Copywriter Accelerator as it is today is going away forever. This is the proven business building program used by hundreds of copywriters to start and grow their businesses. And I guarantee it will work for you too. But to get the eight modules, eight blueprints, the bonuses and the coaching calls that go along with it… you need to opt in now. And if you decide to join the Accelerator now, you’ll get absolutely free, the program I am working on behind the scenes that will replace it. I don’t even have a name for the new thing, just know that it will be worth it. And if you don’t agree, you’ll get your money back. Go to thecopywriterclub.com/fasttrack for details now. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Heather Parady. Heather, welcome to the podcast. I, I'm thrilled to be here. You know, as we were just talking before we started recording, I'm a big fan of yours. I would love to start with your story and how you got to where you are building this list, this following that you have, you know, video producer, all of the things. Yeah. How did you get there? Heather Parady: Well, first of all, thanks for having me on. I was listening to your show and I'm just really impressed with the quality of guests and the topics and how thorough you guys are and professional. It's just really, really valuable, valuable show that I look forward to continually listening to now. I was a therapist, you know, I went to school to sit in rooms with people and hear their problems and sort it out. psychology of trying to figure out why we are the way that we are. And I've always been kind of like a helper. You know, I think through and through, that's really who I am. So it's funny because a lot of people are kind of coming to me for like the media side of stuff. They're like, video editing and all this stuff. And I'm like, that's something that I'm learning how to do. It's not something that I've been doing all along. What I've been doing all along is sitting with people and reading books on Adler and Carl Jung and stuff like that.

Wondering how copywriters could be using Facebook and Instagram ads to grow their business? Our guest for the 425th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Kwadwo Sampany-Kessie. Kwadwo had to reinvent his business during the pandemic. And today he helps businesses grow with ads on Meta. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Accelerator FastTrack The Art of Online Business Podcast The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Facebook ads. Copywriters write them. Some copywriters run them. All of us see and click on them. And yet, most of us don’t have a deep understanding of how to use them for our clients or our own businesses. It’s not a skill you can easily pick up by listening to a podcast, but we can get a deeper understanding of them with the help of an expert. Hi I’m Rob Marsh and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my guest is Facebook Ads Manager Kwadwo Sampany-Kessie. Kwadwo’s business collapsed during the pandemic and he had to create an entirely new means for supporting his family. So he began a business helping others use Facebook to promote their products.   That’s not all we talked about. Kwadwo talked about the value of learning a new language and how that can change your perspective on the world. And the challenges of starting over. I think you’re going to like this episode. Before we get to that… I’ve been telling you about The Copywriter Accelerator FastTrack— that’s our business foundations program used by more than 350 copywriters to start, build and scale their own writing business. Graduates include six-figure writers like Justin Blackman, Kirsty Fanton, Michal Eisik, Dani Paige, Krystal Church and hundreds of others. The only way to get the business changing strategies and proven ideas we share in The Accelerator is with the Fast Track edition. And it will be going away sometime in the new year.  So if you’ve been thinking of joining the accelerator, this is just about your last chance to get that game-changing program. I’m working on a new program that will replace it… something that will be more concise and immediately applicable. It’s too soon to reveal the details but if you join The Accelerator FastTrack before we launch this new program, you’ll get The Accelerator and free access to the new program when it launches. That includes all of the content, the 8 modules and blueprints and several bonuses that will help you find and land the high-paying clients you want. If you get started with the FastTrack now, when the new year is here you’ll be ready with a steady flow of clients and a signature service you’re proud to offer them. Visit thecopywriterclub.com/fasttrack to learn more today. And now, let’s go to our interview with Kwadwo... Kwadwo welcome to the podcast. I'm excited. First of all, as I said, as we were starting to chat just to meet you, but also to have you on to tell us your story, how you became a Facebook ads manager, a strategy partner, host of a very popular podcast. How did you get here? Kwadwo: Let's go back to when I was sitting in Beijing, China, the capital of China, with my wife at a Mediterranean restaurant. And we were enjoying our hummus and naan and we're sitting and we're overlooking like a popular shopping strip. And so we're chatting and just relating about China life because I've lived there for 12 years. And the next thing that happened was It's very typical for me, but my wife had never experienced before. And so a couple of tables down, there's two Russian girls. They had spotted me, and they had started giggling like they saw somebody famous. And the thing is, I was famous, and I'll go into that in a moment. they made their way over to the table and, you know, say, excuse me, introduce themselves and wanted to take a selfie with me. So I introduced them to my wife and then did the selfie thing and they wen...

A lot of copywriters need a way to attract prospects... but more than that, they need to do it in a way that immediately communicates that they're the expert—an advisor clients can trust. In the 424th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I spoke with copywriter Meg Kendall about creating an industry report that does this perfectly. If you want to stand out from all the other copywriters who depend on lead magnets and social posts to get clients, you need to listen to this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Meg's Website The Copywriter Accelerator Fast Track The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  One of the biggest challenges copywriters face… actually it’s not just copywriters, it’s freelancers of every kind… one of the big challenges we all face is getting noticed. But more than that, getting noticed in a way that builds trust with the clients you want to work with. Just about everyone has a lead magnet… or an email list… or content on social media… all with the intent of making a connection to prospects and potential clients. If you don’t have those you should. They’re table stakes for creating a successful business. But because everyone has them, you have to do more than these to stand out. One way to stand out is to write an eye-opening industry report that immediately sets you up as the expert in the field. It’s more than a download, it’s a shortcut to interviewing potential clients, establishing relationships with them, and demonstrating your ability. Hi I’m Rob Marsh and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my guest is copywriter Meg Kendall. Meg followed this exact path to connect with several potential clients in her niche. She’ll be sharing exactly how she did it in this interview.  Before we get to that… you’ve heard of The Copywriter Accelerator program. That’s our business foundations program used by more than 350 copywriters to start, build and scale their own writing business. Graduates include six-figure writers like Justin Blackman, Kirsty Fanton, Michal Eisik, Dani Paige, Krystal Church, and today’s podcast guest, Meg Kendall. We no longer run that program live… the only way to get the business changing strategies and proven ideas we share in The Accelerator is with the Fast Track edition. And as I mentioned on this show last week, even that will be going away sometime in the new year.  So if you’ve been thinking of joining the accelerator, time is running out. What will replace it? It’s too soon to reveal the details but if you join the accelerator fast track before we launch this new program, you’ll get early access to both the accelerator and the new program. Until then, you get all of the content, the 8 modules and blueprints and several bonuses that are included in The Accelerator Fast Track. And when we launch the new program sometime next year, you’ll get that updated program too. Don’t wait to work on your business so when the new year is here you have a steady flow of clients and a signature service you’re proud to offer them. Visit thecopywriterclub.com/fasttrack to learn more today. And now, let’s go to our interview with Meg Kendall. Hey Meg, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. Let's start with your story. I've been watching you build your business now for a couple of years. I think it's a good one. Meg Kendall: All right. Yeah. I feel like my story is kind of similar to a lot of other copywriters and that it's very winding and maybe a lot of the backstory is fairly irrelevant to what I do now. So I had a fairly long career in hospitality. I worked as a server and a bartender for about 10 years, and it was pretty hard to leave. At some points, I wasn't sure I would ever leave. And then I finally broke out, and that was via going back to school for the millionth time, it feels like. Really,

For the 423rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we're checking in on the progress A.I. has made over the past year with Jon Gillham, founder of Originality.AI. We talked about how originality helps protect writers from false accusations of plagiarism and checks facts (unlike ChatGPT and Gemini), plus some of the risks that A.I. poses to the world of content creation. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: Get the AI Bullet Writing Prompt Originality.AI The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Almost two years ago, we realized that A.I. was not just a new idea that copywriters and content writers needed to pay attention to, rather it was a game-changing technology that would impact almost everything writers do. The number of new tools and features that include use A.I. to deliver their benefits is in the thousands. That’s a big part of why we launched the A.I. for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast last year. You can find more than 20 conversations about A.I. on that podcast. But as A.I. has become almost commonplace, we stepped away from doing so many interviews about artificial intelligence and just how it is changing our industry. But I’m thinking it’s about time we checked in on how the tech has changed over the past few months and what copywriters should be using it for… if they aren’t already doing it. Hi I’m Rob Marsh and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my guest is Jon Gillham, the founder of Originality.AI. This tool is the most accurate A.I. detector available today. What’s more in addition to checking for content created by A.I., it’s a fact checker—something tools like Gemini and ChatGPT have struggled with, it checks for plagiarism, and will help protect you against clients and others who might claim your writing isn’t original. We talked about how they do it and the risks A.I. continues to pose for writers on this episode, so stay tuned. Before we get to that… last summer we ran the last ever live cohort of The Copywriter Accelerator program. Since then, the only way to get the business building insights and strategies that we shared with more than 350 copywriters over the past seven years was to join the Fast Track version of the accelerator at thecopywriterclub.com/fasttrack. But I’ve been working on an updated version of that program and it too will go away soon. So if you’ve been thinking of joining the accelerator, time is running out. What’s coming next? It’s too soon to reveal what I’ve been working on, but if you join the accelerator fast track before we launch it, you’ll get early access to the new program, absolutely free. Until then, you get all of the content, the 8 modules and blueprints and several bonuses that are included in The Accelerator Fast Track. And when we launch the new program sometime next year, you’ll get that updated program too. Don’t wait to work on your business so when the new year is here you have a steady flow of clients and a signature service you’re proud to offer them. Visit thecopywriterclub.com/fasttrack to learn more today. And now, let’s go to our interview with Jon Gillham. Hey, John, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. We'd like to start with your story. So how did you become the founder of Originality AI, and I guess also the co-founder of AdBank and Motion Invest and Content Refined? You've done a lot of this company starting thing. Jon Gillham: Yeah, it's been a journey. Yeah, so my background was as a mechanical engineer, did that in school, and then I always knew that I wanted to get back to my hometown and started some sort of online projects. A lot of those projects all had sort of a central theme around creating content that would rank in Google, get traffic, and monetize that, whether that was an e-commerce site, a software business. And then at one point, we built up some extra capacity within the team ...

Starting and growing a copywriting business isn't easy. So when we find a writer who seems to have figured it out, it's worth taking a closer look to see what's going on. So for the 422nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I asked Megan Smyth to share more about her business and podcast and how she's gotten so many things right as she's grown. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Accelerator Fast Track Megan's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  One of the things I love most about what I do at The Copywriter Club is the opportunity I have to see copywriters grow in so many different ways. They get better at writing. They build and develop amazing businesses that support the lifestyle they want—sometimes that’s something as dramatic as a full-time, six-figure business and other times it’s a part-time gig that helps pay some of the bills. And for copywriters who already have a business, it’s fun to watch them change and update the way they market themselves, create products, and find their ideal clients. Honestly, it’s a big part of why I do what I do. Hi I’m Rob Marsh and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with copywriter and launch consultant, Megan Smyth. As you’ll hear during this interview, Megan is one of those copywriters who has made big changes to her business over the past couple of years. Megan’s a pre-med student turned copywriter and the business she’s created will inspire anyone who is just starting out or is ready to make a change—heck, I’m inspired by the progress she’s made. So stick around and listen to what Megan has to share about how she did it. Just a quick note… on this episode, we’ll mention The Copywriter Accelerator program that helped jump start Megan’s business and brand creation. That program is no longer available—at least in the format that Megan participated. However, we’ve taken all of the content, the 8 modules and blueprints and several bonuses and repurposed them into what we’ve called The Accelerator Fast Track. This version is designed to help you get results even faster. If, as you listen to us discuss that program, you are interested in how it might help you and your business, simply visit thecopywriterclub.com/fasttrack to learn more. And now, let’s go to our interview with Megan Smyth. Megan, welcome to the podcast. Tell us how you got started. How'd you become a copywriter, a course creator, now doing some coaching as well? You've come a long way. Megan Smyth: Yeah, doing all the things. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. It's an honor to be on this show. It's one of the very first podcasts I started listening to on this journey. So, you know, if we're talking about how I got started, very first copywriting and business podcast I ever listened to was yours. And I've learned so much from you and Kira. But yeah, so to kick it back, I did not grow up dreaming of being a copywriter. I've yet to meet anyone that even knows what that was at a young age. My plan was to be a doctor. So I studied pre-med in university, and I realized about halfway through that something was just not right. I was enjoying it, but not as much as my friends around me in the program. And I was sort of on this fast track to success. It seemed like I had it all figured out. I was in this great program. I was applying for early admission to med school and all these things. And there was just this voice in the back of my head that was like, this is not it. Something's not right. And so when all of my friends in the program were writing the MCAT over the summer, I took the summer off and I booked a one-way ticket to Thailand. And that was sort of my escape plan. Rather than tell everyone that I was having these doubts, I just left the country for three months.

What does it take to create a course that delivers on its promise and ensures that students get through all of the material? On the 421st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, copywriter and course corrector, Maya Stojkovich, shares her COURSE framework for creating and fixing the programs experts sell in order to get results. There's a ton of crossover with copywriting sales messages, so grab your headphones and let's get to it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Course Corrector The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Why are so many course creators failing when it comes to selling their courses? Or worse, they do sell their courses or memberships or workshops, but the people who buy them don’t finish them. I’ve certainly bought my share of courses with the full intention that I was going to complete the training and the assignments, and they’re still waiting there months… sometimes years later. What’s up with that? Hi I’m Rob Marsh and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with copywriter and course corrector, Maya Stojkovich. Maya is one half of the partership behind the Course Corrector—a program designed to help course creators fix the things that keep course buyers from finishing the work and getting the result they want. The other half of this partnership is Linda Perry who has been on the podcast several times before. On this episode, Maya shared the formula for making sure a course will deliver the promised result and keep students engaged. And smart copywriters will notice some big similarities between what she shared and what we often put into a winning sales message. So stay tuned. Just a quick plug… this episode is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground… the only membership for copywriters focused on helping you build your business skills—the skills that help you attract clients, create services they want to buy, price them effectively, and run a business that’s fully booked and profitable. Does it reallly make a difference? Yes it does. Members tell us its the best investment they’ve ever made in themselves. The training resources, templates, critiques and community are game changers. And you can find out more… even try it risk free for thirty days at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And now, let’s go to our interview with Maya Stojkovich. Hey, Maya, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. Let's start with how you got to where you are. How did you become a copywriter, a teacher, and now a course corrector? Maya Stojkovich: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me on. I'm so excited. That is a wonderful question. How I got here, I'd say, is a pretty non-traditional route. Everything about it seemed traditional at first. I went to college. I got an English degree. I actually started off working in politics and that's what I really thought I wanted to do. And then I ultimately recognized that it wasn't the life for me. And so I actually ended up coming home and I was trying to reassess and, you know, I got the chance to actually join the Accelerator, and that was the first course I ever took. And I sat there and was like, this is really something. But there was a piece that was missing. I wasn't fully engaged, but I also like to blame that on being 20 and 21 and not really knowing who I am at that age. And I continued to learn. I took so many courses. That full year, I was just taking course after course. I actually ended up becoming a certified mindset coach. And that really helped shape the rest of my career path. I actually settled down into marketing for a while, and then I up and moved, and I ended up being a paralegal, a teacher, an education programs coordinator. And it seems all over the place, but now sitting where I am as one half of the course corrector, I recognized that my entire path was just setting me up to become this course...

Marketing consultant, Leticia Collins is our guest for the 420th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. She's an expert in community-based email list growth, so it's no wonder she added 4300 people to her list in less than a week. Want to know how she did it? Then this episode is for you. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Leticia's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: The money is in the list, or that’s what we’re told. And before you can work on getting some of that money out of the list and into your business, you need a list. If your list is small, you need a bigger list. If your list is full of the wrong people, you need to find the right people. As a business owner, one of your big challenges is your list. And knowing that, would you like to hear how you can add hundreds, maybe even thousands of qualified names to your email list in as little as a week? Hi I’m Rob Marsh and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with marketing strategist Leticia Collins. Tish is a successful marketer who has worked hard to grow her list. And in this interview, she shared how she added 4,300 subscribers to her email list in one week. And triped her revenue in the process. If you want to grow an email list full of potential clients for your business, this episode is for you. Before we get to that though… you hear me tell you about several resources that we’ve put together to help you build and grow a writing business. I’m going to quickly list a few of them here so you can get the help you need… we have a free facebook group called The Copywriter Club. You can find us on Facebook and request that we add you to the group where you’ll find seven years of threads about all kinds of copywriting and business questions.  Obviously you know about this podcast. You’re listening to it right now and there are more than 400 interviews with successful copywriters and other experts in our backlist. Once you’ve listened to this episode, scroll through to find interviews with people like Seth Godin, Jay Abraham, Jereshia Hawk, Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Kennedy and so many others. Honestly, it’s the best free library of copy, content and business ideas that you’ll find anywhere. And it’s at your fingertips. Take a minute now to subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don’t miss another episode. And right now you can get our free, 36 page mini-book called How to Find Clients when you go to thecopywriterclub.com/findaclient . I guarantee you’ll find at least one and probably 5-10 ideas you can use to find a client for your business. We’re here to help you build a business, so be sure to take advantage of all the free resources we’ve provided for you. And now, let’s go to our interview with Tish Collins. Welcome to the podcast, Tish. I want to start with the question we always start with, which is how did you become a content creator, a digital marketing strategist, business mentor, all of the things? Leticia Collins: Hi, well firstly thank you so much for having me on, it's so lovely to be here. And I got started in business, I started my business back in 2019 and I never really saw myself becoming a business owner at all, I kind of fell into it. It started when I went to university, I studied journalism and creative writing and one of our assignments, one of the very first assignments was for us to start a blog. I had always wanted to do that. So I was really excited about it. I started my blog and it was going to be like a portfolio for when I became a journalist. Obviously that didn't happen. Um, but what did happen is I began to grow my blog. I grew my Instagram. I started working with brands and I kind of started my first business that way. And then after a few years I began to get some questions about how I was getting paid to work with brands and growing my Instagram so fast.

The publishing platform Medium's been around for years. But the company has made a few changes recently that might make you reconsider whether or not you should be writing on Medium. Our guest for the 419th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Thomas Smith. I asked Thomas to share some of the reasons Medium has become a place for readers to find great content as well as a place for writers to not just share their thoughts, but also to potentially earn a respectable income stream by posting thoughts there instead of social media or your own blog. Why Thomas? Well, he's earned more than $19,000 for a single post on the platform, and well over six figures over the past couple of years. So he knows a thing of two. And he shared it all on this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Thomas's Thrive on Medium Course How to Find Clients 36-page Mini-book The FREE Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  It’s been said so often that it’s almost become a meme… there’s this idea that successful millionaires… or maybe its billionaires, I can’t quite remember, but successful millionaires have on average seven different streams of income. They may have a salary or income from a business they own, they earn dividends on their investments, maybe they have income from property they own, and so on. And people share this idea with the intention that those of us who hear it will also think about ways to add different potential income streams to our businesses. But as a content writer or a copywriter, you may not have access to investment that pay dividends yet. Or property you can rent out. Or many of the other more traditional ways these very wealthy people earn money. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t options for us. In fact, some of these options may be easier for you and me, than for the Jeff Bezos and Elon Musks of the world to capitalize on. Hi I’m Rob Marsh and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with successful Medium writer, Thomas Smith. Thomas has been writing on and making good money with Medium. He recently released a course that shows how he does it. And I wanted to chat with him about the possibilities for content writers and copywriters to use Medium as a potential revenue source—especially for the kinds of writing we might want to do for ourselves instead of our clients. If you write for you… you may want to listen to this episode twice so you pick up on all the ideas Thomas shares about growing an audience and income stream using Medium. Before we get to that though… you hear me tell you about several resources that we’ve put together to help you build and grow a writing business. I’m going to quickly list a few of them here so you can get the help you need… we have a free facebook group called The Copywriter Club. You can find us on Facebook and request that we add you to the group where you’ll find seven years of threads about all kinds of copywriting and business questions. Obviously you know about this podcast. You’re listening to it right now and there are more than 400 interviews with successful copywriters and other experts in our backlist. Once you’ve listened to this episode, scroll through to find interviews with people like Seth Godin, Jay Abraham, Jereshia Hawk, Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Kennedy and so many others. Honestly, it’s the best free library of copy, content and business ideas that you’ll find anywhere. And it’s at your fingertips. And right now you can get our free, 36 page mini-book called How to Find Clients when you go to thecopwriterclub.com/findaclient . I guarantee you’ll find at least one and probably 5-10 ideas you can use to find a client for your business. We’re here to help you build a business, so be sure to take advantage of all the free resources we’ve provided for you. And now,

Want to write a book? There are plenty of experts who will tell you how. But Allison Fallon has an approach that's different from all the others—at least, that's how it felt to be. Allison is the guest for the 418th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and when you hear what she shares about the process of writing, I think you'll agree, she does this a little differently—and it might just be the approach that works for you. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Power of Writing it Down by Allison Fallon Write Your Story by Allison Fallon Indestructible by Allison Fallon Packing Light by Allison Fallon Allison's Website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: As a copywriter or a content writer or someone who is thinking about exploring these career paths, you’ve probably toyed with the idea of writing a book. Maybe you’ve got a great story that absolutely has to be told. Or perhaps you’ve heard that a book is the best business card and can open doors with clients who then hire you to write for them. Or maybe you’ve got a screenplay you work on for a few minutes after your client work is done. More likely… you’ve thought about one or more of those things, but haven’t yet put pen to paper, or fingers to keyboard. I’m always thinking of ideas for books, some of which I have started, others I’ve put away for later. And to help me as I process these ideas, I’ve read several books about writing books… how to do it, what to include, all that stuff. Recently I came across another book about writing books that was very different in its approach. It changed the way I think about writing… books and other things too. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, and my guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is author and book writing coach Allison Fallon. You’ll hear me say it in the interview, but Allison’s book, The Power of Writing It Down, felt more like therapy than another book about putting together your book chapters in a particluar order or writing scenes or character development. After reading it, I wanted to talk with Allison about her approach and what it means, particularly for writers who might be writing to a non-fiction audience. I think you’re going to like this interview. Before we jump in with Allion… Last week I mentioned our special free report called How to Find Clients. And I want to share that again because it features more than 20 different things you can do, starting right now, to find your ideal clients. It also shares the 4 mistakes you absolutely can’t afford to make when looking for clients—if you do, you are dead in the water… and it also shows you five things you need to do before you reach out to the people you want to work with IF you want them to say yes. This isn’t some dainty one page PDF you’ll forget about in a day or two… it’s 36 pages jam packed with ideas that either we’ve used in our own businesses or we’ve seen other successful copywriters use to grow theirs.  You can get your free report by going to thecopywiterclub.com/findaclient   that’s all one word. Thecopywriterclub.com/findaclient. Get your free report now. And with that, let's go to our interview with Allison… Allie, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. I would love just to start with your story, and I know you've got a really great story, but how did you become an author, speaker, founder of Find Your Voice? Allison Fallon: Yeah, I have always wanted to be an author for as long as I can remember. I often tell a story about being in fourth grade, and that was the first time that I really realized that I had a teacher who pointed out a skill I had for storytelling. And I just remember feeling like, oh, I can like something and be good at something and be acknowledged for it. And so that kind of started the spark for wanting to tell stories and in a longer format, like writing a book.

In the 417th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I spoke with case study copywriter Dana Owens... and of course we talked in depth about writing case studies. But as we talked, Dana shared her connection secret for getting plenty of leads for the work she wants to do. It's a great idea that any copywriter can borrow and use to grow their own business. But to get it, you're going to have to listen. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Dana's Tools for Case Study Writers The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: One of the client finding ideas I like to talk about is making connections with other service providers. Instead of thinking of other copywriters as the competition, think of them as business associates who can support you in all kinds of ways including by sharing leads. I’ve mentioned more than once that copywriters have shared leads with me that have resulted in more than six figures worth of business over the years. With results like that, of course you should connect with other copywriters and content writers. But there may be an even better group to connect with when it comes to getting clients. It’s just one of the things we cover on this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, and my guest for this episode is case study copywriter Dana Owens. We covered a lot of ground in this interview including how Dana kind of stumbled on this perfect partner for leads in her busines. If you write case studies it’s a connection idea you can steal and use today. But if you write any other kind of copy, you can use this idea as well, you’ll just have to figure out who your perfect connection partner is. So stick around to hear more about it. Before we jump in with Dana… It’s been a little while since I’ve mentioned our special report called How to Find Clients that features more than 20 different things you can do, starting right now, to find your ideal clients. It also shares the 4 mistakes you absolutely can’t afford to make when looking for clients—if you do, you are dead in the water… and it also shows you five things you need to do before you reach out to the people you want to work with IF you want them to say yes. This isn’t some dainty one page PDF you’ll forget about in a day or two… it’s 36 pages jam packed with ideas that either we’ve used in our own businesses or we’ve seen other successful copywriters use to grow theirs.  You can get your free report by going to thecopywiterclub.com/findaclient   that’s all one word. Get your free report now. And with that, let's go to our interview with Dana… Hey Dana, it is so great to see you. Welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. You know how this goes because you've been part of The Copywriter Club world for a long time, but let's start with your story. How did you become a copywriter? Dana Owens: Well, first of all, I'm so excited to be here. I actually learned that copywriting was a real thing from the Copywriter Club podcast. Seven years ago, I remember taking a road trip with my husband. And that was like back in the day where I had to connect his iPad to the car through a USB cord. And I had like 10 episodes of The Copywriter Club Podcast downloaded. And throughout the road trip, we listened to the episodes. And that's when I realized copywriting could be like a real career and a real business. And that's when he also learned it. So the fact that I'm talking to you today is just like, I don't know, a funny, funny, full circle moment. Rob Marsh: So that's amazing. Dana Owens: Yeah. But I started, um, I got involved in copywriting. Like I wish I would have started so much earlier than I did, but I graduated with a journalism degree and became a journalist for one year. Um, I went to work for a local, I'm from Michigan. So it was like a local small town paper and was the police reporter into the police be...

Starting a business is hard. And having enough runway to get off the ground is a big part of whether you succeed or fail. Content creator and author of the Hey, Freelancer newsletter, Blair Sharp, is our guest for the 416th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Blair shares how she made sure she had enough runway to figure things out when she launched her business. There's a lot in this episode, including Blair's story of giving up alcohol. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: Blair's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: This podcast episode is all about what I like call runway. And maybe the best way to explain what I mean by that is a comparrison of your business and an airplane. It takes energy to get an airplane of the ground. The pilot needs to spin up the engines, the aircraft has to accelerate, the wing flaps need to be adjusted to get “lift” so the aircraft rises. And because all of this takes a bit of time… you need a runway to move down while it all comes together. Your business is a lot like that. Most businesses don’t take off like rocketships. They need runway while you figure a few things out and get the momentum to take off. It takes time… so having a long runway can really benefit your business. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I’m speaking with content creator, part-time psychometrist and author of the Hey Freelancer newsletter, Blair Sharp. The way Blair has built her business is the perfect example of using a runway and time to figure things out, instead of just leaping into the unknown and hoping for the best. It’s a model that a lot of freelancers could benefit from. So stick around as she lays out how she’s made it work for her. Before we jump in with Blair… Tomorrow,  October 9 is the day of our next members-only training on how to create a lead magnet that not only helps you grow your list, but attracts your ideal clients and buyers, not just people looking for a free download. Our guest Kennedy from Email Marketing Heroes will be sharing a totally new way to create lead magnets that create buyers. That’s how he describes it. If you want to build your own list or you want to be hired by clients who need help with emails and lead magnets for their own lists, you need to see this masterclass. And the best way to do that is to join The Underground at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. As a member you’ll have access to dozens of expert trainings all focused on helping you attract more clients and get stuff done. I promise, you can use these trainings to build your skills and expertise so you can raise your rates and earn the living you deserve from your copywriting or content writing business. So jump in at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu today. And now, let's go to our interview with Blair… Hey Blair, welcome to the podcast. We want to start out by asking how you became a content writer, actually also a psychometrist, I think is… Yes, you said it correctly. Blair Sharp: Most people don't know what that is or know how to pronounce it. Rob Marsh: Okay, so psychometrist and you're the author of the Hey Freelancer newsletter. Yes. And so yeah, let's dig into that. How did you become all of these things? Blair Sharp: Yeah, right. Well, it's kind of a long story. And whenever I tell it, I don't really know, like, where should I start? We've got 60 minutes here. So I've been a psychometrist, which means I test people's thinking. So I work at the Mayo Clinic. I've been there. I'm in Rochester, Minnesota. I've been at that job for just over 10 years. So I just hit my 10-year mark. And I started writing for a local parenting blog, just on a volunteer basis, in 2019. And really enjoyed it, just as a little hobby. I was doing a lot of essays, some things in the community. And it was kind of like a nice other mom.

Most writers focus on the writing part of copywriting, which only makes sense as we're writers. But maybe we should be doing more copythinking before we start to write. Our guest for the 415th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is A-List Copywriter David Deutsch. And when it comes to thinking about copy, David has few peers. He talked about strategy, writing emotional copy, coming up with big ideas, and much more. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: David's website The How to Write Emotional Copy Workshop The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: When we started The Copywriter Club Podcast, one of the things we were adamant about was that we would interview copywriters at all levels of experience and at all the various stages of their business journey. So we’ve spoken with copywriters who are just getting started along with those with years of experience. We’ve interviewed copywriters who call themselves content writers, strategists, consultants and various other titles. We’ve heard from marketers and authors and experts in all kinds of fields. In fact we used to start the podcast with the promise that you would listen and walk away with plenty of ideas you could “steal” for your own business. With that background, it’s always a thrill to get the opportunity to interview an expert copywriter who has earned his place on the A-List. One of the go-to copywriters when it comes to being coached by one of the very best in the direct response world. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I’m speaking with A-list copywriter David Deutsch. David has generated more than a billion dollars in sales over the course of his career. Not bad. And probably someone we can learn from. You’ll hear this in the interview, but one of the things David likes to talk about is the difference between writing and persuasion and copywriting. The two ought to be the same, but often they’re not. I know I say this every episode, but I think you’re going to like this interview. So stick around. Before we jump in with David… It’s October. Which means the year is 3/4 done… we’ve all got one more quarter to reach the goals we set for our businesses at the beginning of the year. So let me ask you, how is it going? Are you ahead or behind your goals? What can you accomplish in the next 12 weeks that will move your business forward and set you up for a successful 2025… hard to believe the decade is half over… any way in my opinion the best place for copywriters to stretch and reach their goals is The Copywriter Underground, the paid membership with more than 100 hours of training, including an entire course on selling, a mini-course on proposals, more than 27 different templates, including a legal agreement, and so many other resources designed to help you grow. And each month, we invite a different guest expert to teach a new skill… this month’s members-only persentation is by Email Marketing Hero Kennedy on creating lead magnets that attract buyers, not freebie seekers to your list. It’s the kind of skill that will help you build your own list and make you so much more valuable to your clients. It’s happening next week in The Copywriter Underground which you can join at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And now, let's go to our interview with David… David, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. I would love to start with your story. How did you become a direct response copywriter, a copy coach, and I think what some people would even say, you know, original member of the A-list of copywriters that are out there? Tell us how you got there. David Deutsch: Oh, well, thanks. It's great to be here, first of all. And, you know, I started on I don't know how far back to go, but I started my advertising career at Ogilvy and Mather in New York, which was David Ogilvy's agency back when he still occ...

Standing out as a content writer when you offer the same services as every other content writer is hard. We're talking blog posts, case studies, white papers... But if you're willing to go beyond the expected and find deeper problems your clients have, you can carve out a very different kind of business. For the 414th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I spoke with content strategist Sarah Hopkinson about how she found a problem that she can solve and be the only content mixologist doing what she does. If you're a content writer who wants to solve bigger problems than writing blog posts for SEO, you're going to like this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Pocket Guide Sarah Created for us Ry Schwartz Podcast Episode Everybody Writes by Anne Handley Sarah's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  A lot of content writers focus on serving clients who have obvious content needs. They know they need blog posts for SEO or case studies for a sales funnel. They’re solving problems that their clients know they have. And while there are plenty of opportunituies for copywriters in this space, there is a ton of competition too. Because a lot of writers, especially writers who are just starting out, will gravitate to these obvious problems and the clients who know they need these assets. But there are deeper content needs that are a bit less obvious. And they can be a rich opportunity for the smart copywriters who can unlock them. Let me give you an example… there are hundreds of podcaster and video channel owners with months or even years of episodes full of great ideas and insights. But most podcast listeners don’t have the time to listen to every episode in order to get those insights. Take this podcast for example, if you were to listen to every episode, it would take you twelve weeks if you listened 8 hours a day to hear everything we’ve shared. But what if an enterprising content writer could unlock those insights so listeners didn’t have to put in the time, but could get the ideas in a lead magnet or PDF resource for a client. Now that’s a non-obvious content opportunity that a lot of clients have but almost no copywriters offer. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I’m speaking with content strategist and podcast content mixologist Sarah Hopkinson. Sarah has created a business that does exactly that—uncovers the best lost and hidden content that podcasters have in their archives, then helps her clients find new uses for those assets. Sarah has staked out a unique position in a niche with a ton of potential clients that almost no one else is serving. And I asked her how and why she did it. Stay tuned to here what she had to say… Before we jump in with Sarah… On this episode we’ll talk about the kind of lead magnets and other content that Sarah creates for her clients. We actually asked Sarah to go through some of our older episodes to find the very best ideas that our guests shared about finding clients. If you’d like to see what she discovered, simply visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket. If you go to that url, you’ll be able to download a report that shares the ideas that Sarah uncovered on those older podcasts—ideas that still work today. Any way, check it out at thecopywriterclub.com/pocket And now, let's go to our interview with Sarah… Sarah, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. Tell us, how did you become a copywriter and a podcast content strategist? Sarah Hopkinson: Hey Rob, it is great to be here and I'm so excited to talk to you. I got into copywriting through like many copywriters, a slightly long journey. I did a degree in French and linguistics, which really set me up for life in France, and I decided that that was my goal to move from Britain to France, so I did that.

Standing out and getting noticed is hard in a world with more than a million people calling themselves copywriters and content writers. Posting on social media, writing for LinkedIn, or even creating content for Google or Pinterest—all of those things work. But who wouldn't love to be featured in the Wall Street Journal or Business Insider? You get positive press and a high-value link to your site for SEO. Sign us up. But hold on... it's not as easy as you might think. My guest for the 413th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Gloria Chou, a self-made PR specialist. And in this interview she spells out how you can attract those high value press placements to help grow your business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Gloria's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  As you think about your copywriting or content writing business and all the things you need to do to get yourself out there and in front of your ideal clients… there are a lot of options. There’s social media with its various options from TikTok and Instagram to LinkedIn and Twitter and more. You can create a YouTube channel or a podcast. You can show up at events or in groups in places like Facebook. You can start your own groups using tools like Telegram, Skool, Circle, and of course Facebook. You can ask your existing clients to introduce you to their network and build a business on referrals. I even know one writer who had his car wrapped with a vinyl cover that advertised his work and contact information.  And honestly, those are just the most popular options—except maybe that car wrap. That might be a little more rare. One of the most effective ways to get yourself out there is to be featured in a major publication or possibly on TV using PR. That kind of exposure comes with instant credibility and potentially, a massive audience of potential clients. What would an article in The Wall Street Journal or Business Insider do for your clients attraction efforts? I’m guessing it wouldn’t hurt. And if you’re like a couple of copywriters I know, it could instantly double or triple your business almost overnight. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, and on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed former television producer and diplomat and current PR guru expert and unofficial hype woman for dozens of small businesses, Gloria Chou. Gloria’s approach to getting PR is a bit different from other experts who talk about it and definitely worth learning about. What she shares in this interview could be just the thing you need to land the publicity you need to take the next step in your business. So stay tuned to hear what she had to share. Before we jump in with Gloria… You only have a couple of days until the next guest expert workshop happening in The Copywriter Underground. I’ve shared a lot of details about what The Underground includes on past episodes, so let me just say this. Unlike a lot of other memberships and groups, the underground is designed to make things easy. There aren’t dozens of modules to watch or complicated hoops to jump through. Just the focused insights and ideas you need to grow your business from wherever you are today to that goal you want to reach. We make building a copywriting business do-able.  So I mentioned the training coming this week. It’s with Pinterest Marketing expert Heather Farris. She’s going to  show you how to use Pinterest to drive leads to your business. And how just one or two posts, can send new clients your way for years after you post on that platform. It’s a workshop that could add a bunch of new clients and thousands of dollars in new revenue to your existing business. And you can do it in about 30 minutes a week. To get access to Heather’s Pinterest secrets, you’ve got to be a member of The Copywriter Underground, which you can do at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu.

How you present your products and services to your customers matters. And while most copywriters don't overtly say they do positioning work, the reality is, any messaging project pretty much requires it. The question is, how do you do it right? For the 412th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we talked with copywriter and product positioning expert, Kate Guerrero about the formula for positioning the products you write about in a way that makes it easy for customers to understand not only what it is, but why they need it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Positioning by Ries and Trout Fletch’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Transcript: Rob Marsh: Positioning is a marketing term coined by Al Ries and Jack Trout way back in 1969. It refers to the practice of connecting your product or service (or your client’s products or services) to a single idea in your customer’s mind. And when it’s done well, your prospects and customers associate your brand with that idea. Some examples include Volvo and safety, Apple and creativity, and Disney and magic. Although few clients ask for copywriters to position their products, this is actually a big part of what we do, whether we do it consciously or not.  So I thought it might be worthwhile to talk in depth about how copywriters can do it and the impact it has for their clients. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed copywriter and brand positioning expert Kate Guerrero. Kate is the in-house writer for Fletch, an agency that focuses almost entirely on helping their clients position themselves on their home pages. As promised, she laid out the process that she and Fletch use to help their clients identify the ideas they can stand for in the marketplace. We also talked about the differences between copywriting and messaging—what she shared pairs nicely with our interview with Justin Blackman on last week’s episode. And finally we also talked a bit about fiction writing since Kate has a manuscript she’s been shopping to major publishers. That’s a lot to cover, but we did it, and I think you’ll like the result, so stay tuned. Before we jump in with Kate… The next expert training happening in The Copywriter Underground is coming up soon. You probably know The Underground is our community for copywriters who are actively investing in building their business and writing skills. It includes personalized coaching for you where I give you feedback and ideas to help solve the stickiest challenges you face in your business today. There’s a massive library of business-focused training to help you grow a resilient, profitable copywriting businesss. And each month we bring you a new guest expert training that will help you make even more progress in your business.  This month our guest expert is Heather Farris who will be showing you how to use Pinterest to drive leads to your business for years after you post on that platform. Unlike Twitter where tweets disappear after a few minutes, or LinkedIn and Instagram where posts are lucky to last a day, the content you post on Pinterest is close to permanent. That’s because Pinterest is more like a search engine than social media. Any way, Heather will be sharing how to use Pinterest to drive copywriting leads to your business… it’s the kind of idea that could add new clients and thousands of dollars in new revenue for you. But to get access to these closely held strategies, you’ve got to be a member of The Copywriter Underground, which you can learn more about at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. Jump in now so you don’t miss this or any of the other upcoming expert skill trainings. And now, let's go to our interview with Kate... Kate, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. You've heard a few episodes of the podcast,

Brand voice is one of the "popular" ways to niche or differentiate yourself in the crowded world of copywriting. But what is it really? And how do you do it? We wanted to go deeper than the typical discussion on brand voice, so we asked the expert on the topic, Justin Blackman to join us for the 411th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And we think you're going to like what he shared about it as well as writing brand manifestos and achieving mastery. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Join the Manifesto Maker program here Brand Voice Academy The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: One of the niches that I commonly hear a lot of copywriters talk about focusing on is brand voice. Often they don't use those words. Sometimes they say things like they help clients tell their story or that they help you sound like you. Or maybe it's something like they help bring out your personality or capture the words that resonate with your best customers. All of those are ways of saying pretty much the same thing, brand voice. But while many writers talk about doing this brand voice thing, not many talk about how you do it. In talking about brand voice, I wanted to go a little bit deeper than the typical things that you might read in a blog post about brand voice or things that you might've even heard on podcasts like this one before. So that's what this episode is all about.  Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club, and on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed copywriter and brand voice expert, Justin Blackman. We've actually had Justin on the podcast before, several times in fact, and we've even talked about brand voice with him before, but I wanted to go a little bit deeper this time to go beyond the typical frameworks and see what it really takes to identify your own brand voice or the brand voice of your clients. And I think you're gonna like our discussion, so stay tuned.  But before we jump in with Justin, you've heard me talk about The Copywriter Underground over and over and over. And I'm just going to remind you that the Underground is our community for copywriters who are actively investing in their businesses and in their writing skills. It includes monthly group coaching where we talk about the sticky challenges and problems that copywriters face in their business. It includes this massive library of training. There's more than 30 different templates. It's all focused on helping you grow your skills and get better at things like finding clients, conducting prospecting calls, writing hooks and leads, creating frameworks and processes for getting things done, and so much more. And each month we bring you a different business-focused training to help you grow your skills and grow your business. The next scheduled training is in a couple of weeks.  If you're listening to this, when the podcast releases, it's all about marketing on social media in a way that doesn't disappear in just a few seconds, a few minutes, or even a day or two. Like what happens to your posts on Twitter. Instagram, even LinkedIn. That's going to be with Heather Farris, who was a guest on our podcast a couple of weeks ago. We've asked Heather to customize what she's going to share so that it's really applicable to copywriters and content writers. And I think you're going to like what she will be teaching us this, uh, this in a couple of weeks in September.  And then in October, we're going to have last week's guest, Kennedy, come back and talk about creating the perfect lead magnet. If you listened to his episode last week, you're definitely going to want to join us for this training. So you're not just adding people to your list, but you're actually attracting people who buy and need the solutions that you have for the challenges that they face.

If you're struggling to get the people on your email list to buy your products and services (or you want to help clients sell more to their lists), this episode is for you. We asked Kennedy from Email Marketing Heroes to be our guest for the 410th episode of  The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kennedy shared his SCORE method that helped him increase his own sales by 1700%. Want to know how he did it?  Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript and get the secrets.   Stuff to check out: Email Marketing Heroes The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  After recording more than 400 episodes where we’ve told the stories of hundreds of copywriters and shared many of their processes and secrets for finding clients and getting things done, I think my favorite episodes are those that lay out a playbook for doing something specific. Those episodes are like audio masterclasses where you get almost step by step instructions on how to do something differet. We’ve had a couple of episodes like this lately… and today’s episode is another one like that. We’re getting very specific with email strategy and a formula that could increase your sales—or the sales of your clients—by close to 20x. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed mind reader, mentalist and founder of email heros Kennedy. Kennedy’s been a friend for a few years now. He spoke at our Copywriter Club event in London last year and shared a bit of what we talked about on this interview, so I was thrilled when he agreed to join me here to talk about how to string together email sequences in a way that massively increases revenue. If you apply what Kennedy shares in this episode, you could double or triple what you charge clients for emails and strategy simply because you’ll know how to drastically increase the results you get from your work. Before we jump in with Kennedy… I want to tell you about the next couple of guest expert trainings happening in The Copywriter Underground. In case you don’t know, The Underground is our community for copywriters who are actively investing in building their business and writing skills. It includes monthly group coaching where we help solve the stickiest challenges and problems copywriters are facing in their busienesses today. It includes a massive library of training all focused on helping you grow your skills and get better at things like finding clients, conducting prospecting calls, writing hooks and leads, creating frameworks and processes for getting things done and so much more. And each month we bring you a new business focused training to help you add to your skills and grow your business. The nexd training scheduled for September is all about Pinterest Marketing. And our guest expert for that is last week’s podcast guest, Heather Farris. I asked Heather to customize what she shares so it’s directly applicable to copywriters and content writers. And she agreed. She’s going to show you how to use Pinterest to create long-lasting funnels for your services. And in October, today’s guest, Kennedy is going to return to share something we touched on in today’s interview: creating the perfect lead magnet… so you’re not just adding people to your list, but you’re attracting buyers who want the solutions you have to their challenges. But here’s the thing with these unique guest trainings… they’re for members only. The only way you get these behind the scenes secrets is to join, which you can do at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. Do it today, so you can join us for these upcoming, business changing trainings. And now, let's go to our interview with Kennedy. I want to start the way we usually do. And that's just with your story. And you've got a little bit of a different story. You are not a typical copywriter. In fact,

  Looking for a place to market your writing business where you may be able to be the only copywriter talking to your prospects? Pinterest may be the answer. Heather Farris, the go-to Pinterest Marketing Expert for a lot of service providers, course creators and others is our guest for the 409th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. She shared how to get started, how to find the right key words, and how to get clients off Pinterest and onto your mailing list (or buying your products). This is a good one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Heather's Website Heather's Pinterest Board The Copywriter Club Pinterest Board The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: It doesn’t matter how good you are as a copywriter, if your ideal clients can’t find you, you won’t have a lot of work that you really enjoy. In fact, if clients can’t find you, you may not have any work at all. Copywriters have been solving this get-found-by-clients problem in a lot of ways. They’re on Instagram posting photos and reels. They’re on Linkedin sharing client success stories and thought leadership. They guest on podcasts like this one, sharing their frameworks and processes to attract the clients they want to work with. But the problem with all of those platforms is that there are literally thousands of other copywriters doing the same thing—trying to get attention and connect with the clients they want to work with. What if you could attract clients from a search engine that’s been around for years, but it ignored by almost everyone? Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I’m chatting with Pinterest Marketing Consultant Heather Farris. Her title gives away the answer to the intro, but Heather has been helping service providers connect with their ideal clients on Pinterest for years. As you almost certainly know, Pinterest is an image based search engine with almost 500 million active monthly users. And some pretty easy-to-use tools for finding keywords so you can connect with your ideal clients. Now I’ve always thought of Pinterest as a place to find cool images, but clients? Heather set me straight and not only will you like this interview, but I’m guessing more than a few listeners will use what Heather shares to find their own clients on Pinterest.  Before we jump in with Heather… If you’re listening to this episode when it goes live, The Copywriter Accelerator is open now for the only time this year. The Accelerator is our 8-part, 16 week program that helps you build a successful freelance business whether you’re a copywriter, a content writer, or you use your writing as a strategist, a social media specialist or something else. You’ll learn how to position your business so clients want to work with you. You’ll learn what it takes to create successful products and services that solve real client problems that client’s can’t wait to buy. You’ll learn the various ways to price what you do so you get paid for the value you create, not the time that you work. You’ll set up the right processes and learn how to manage clients. You’ll get more than 29 different ideas for ways to get yourself in front of the clients you want to work with, and you’ll take the first steps toward creating a brand that resonates with you and the people you want to work with. Many of the copywriters who have gone through The Accelerator have gone on to build six figure businesses—many have even been on this podcast… like Justin Blackman, Chanti Zak, Zafira Rajan, Kirsty Fanton… the list goes on. If you want to use the strategies and ideas that helped them in your own business, go to TheCopywriterAccelerator.com now. It’s open for three more days, then closed until next year. And who knows... maybe forever. And now, let's go to our interview with Heather Farris.

9 out of 10 copywriters never hit the six figure mark. That is, they are stuck earning less than $100,000 a year. Why? Because, while they're good writers, they don't have the business skills to run and grow a successful business. For the 408th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we wanted to share some of the amazing things copywriters are doing in their businesses with the help of The Copywriter Accelerator. This proven, 8-part program has helped hundreds of copywriters learn the business skills they need to build the business they want. We've chosen three copywriters to share their biggest takeaways. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Accelerator   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: We've been teasing it on the podcast and in our emails for the last month or so—so it's probably time to make it official, The Copywriter Accelerator is open for new members right now. If you are new here or you don’t know what The Accelerator is, stick around for a minute so you at least have the information you need to decide if this is the right program for you. If you already know about the program and want to jump in this year, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com now to get all the details. For those who don’t know, The Copywriter Accelerator is not a course or a membership. It’s our proven, 8 part, cohort based program that ensures you have all the business skills you need to succeed as the owner of a copywriting business. You’re almost certainly already a good writer… but that’s not enough to succeed. If clients can’t find you, if you don’t know how to talk about what you do so you attract them to you, if you don’t have the systems in place to make sure you get the work done for them, it’s pretty easy to fail. And that might be the reason that 9 out of 10 copywriters and content writers never grow their business to the six-figure mark. Let me repeat that, 90% of copywriters never earn $100,000 from their business because they don’t have the business know-how it requires. They’re great writers, but not yet great business owners and that’s why we created the Accelerator program. It’s designed to help you build the skills to ensure your success. More than 350 copywriters have gone through the program and used the modules to update and improve their businesses. And if you’re struggling to grow your business, it might be time to visit thecopywriteraccelerator.com to learn more about this program. Earlier today I was scanning through a few of the past episodes with copywriters like Justin Blackman, Chanti Zak, Zafira Rajan, Kirsty Fanton and a bunch of others looking for some of the things they said about the accelerator program. I wanted to share their successes… I was going to clip a bunch of these interviews together so you could get a sense of what is included in The Accelerator, but then I remembered an interview we did a while ago with several former members of The Accelerator sharing what they got from the program. So without further ado… let’s roll the tape… Kira Hug:  We’ll let these copywriters introduce themselves in a moment, but first, let me just say, if you’re tempted to skip this episode, because you’re not interested in this program, it could be worth giving it a quick listen because many of the takeaways they share about the changes they’ve made to their businesses apply to copywriting businesses at every single stage. And these writers are doing some pretty cool things in their businesses. You might be inspired by what they’ve done, and maybe even borrow an idea or two for your own business. Rob Marsh:  At this point in the program, we would usually say something like this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator. And then we would tell you all of the reasons why you should consider joining. We’re not going to do that today. Other than to say that after listening to this episode,

Story telling is a super power. However, even writers often struggle to find and tell stories in a way that makes them compelling and persuasive. On the 407th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob spoke with author and story teller Matthew Dicks. Matthew has a new book called Stories Sell that walks through how to find and tell stories. In this interview, we talked in depth about this critical copywriting skill and how you can develop it for your own business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Moth Story Worthy by Matthew Dicks Stories Sell by Matthew Dicks Matthew's Novel that is a bunch of lists Live Life Like You're 100 Matthew's Website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Whether you write copy or content, chances are you’ve heard the advice that you need to be telling stories. Stories are powerful… they help us bond to one another, they help communicate ideas and information far more effectively than if we just share the idea or information alone. They trigger the release of a variety of good hormones and they’re just plain entertaining. But often the advice to tell stories is hard to follow because it’s not always clear what counts as a story or how exactly you should go about telling one. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, teacher, novelist, non-fiction author and famed story teller Matthew Dicks. Matthew is the author of Story Worthy, a book that is often recommended and shared in the copywriting community as a how-to manual on the art of story telling. And he has a new book out called Stories Sell that takes much of what he shares in Story Worthy and puts it in a business context. I read it a few weeks ago, and honestly believe that every copywriter should have this book on their shelf. And just in case you want a quick link, we’ll have one in the show notes for this episode. This is a great conversation that I think you’ll want to listen to at least twice. Before we jump in with Matthew… If you’re listening to this episode when it goes live, we are about a week away from opening up The Copywriter Accelerator for the only time this year. The Accelerator is our 8-part, 16 week program that helps you build a successful freelance business whether you’re a copywriter, a content writer or you use your writing as a strategist, a social media specialist or something else. You’ll learn how to position your business so clients want to work with you. You’ll learn what it taks to create successful products and services that solve real client problems that clients can’t wait to buy. You’ll learn the various ways to price what you do so you get paid for the value you create, not the time that you work. You’ll set up the right processes and learn how to manage clients. You’ll get more than 29 different ideas for ways to get yourself in front of the clients you want to work with and you’ll take the first steps toward creating a brand that resonates with you and the people you want to work with. Many of the copywriters who have gone through The Accelerator have gone on to build six figure businesses. And if that’s something you want, it might be worth checking out. To find out more, go to TheCopywriterAccelerator.com. And now, let's go to our interview with Matthew Dicks... Matthew Dix, welcome to The Copywriter Club Podcast. As I was saying just before we started to record, I'm excited to have you here. I'm guessing that there are a lot of our listeners who know who you are and may be aware of your work. But for those who aren't, will you just give us the story on how you became writer, novelist, storyteller? Matthew Dicks: Yeah, that's a tricky story. But Well, I mean, I became a writer. I like to say on November 30th, 1988, when a teacher in my high school recognized that I had someth...

We've talked a lot about emails on the podcast lately. And for the 406th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed ConvertKit's Creator Growth Manager, Morgan Kitzmiller about newsletters, referral tools, and how to use email service providers like ConvertKit in ways you might not have thought of before. There's a lot of good stuff in this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: ConvertKit The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: We’ve talked a lot about email on the podcast over the last ten or fifteen episodes. How to write them. How to make sure the emails you write end up in your reader’s inbox. How to add personality and sell with emails. In today’s episode, we’re going deeper into how to work with an email service provider to do more with your emails. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with Morgan Kitzmiller. Morgan is the Creator Growth  Manager at ConvertKit. And she’s the owner of her own business, Root and Rise. Morgan works with creators to help them grow their audiences and their businesses. We talked about how to use automations and other tools to make email a bigger part of what copywriters do. And we talked in depth about what’s going on with newsletters… which tools like substack, beehiiv and convertkit are making so easy to start and run as a business. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, so make sure you stick around for all of it. Before we hear what Morgan had to share… You’ve heard me talk about The Copywriter Underground often on the podcast. Along with the monthly coaching, weekly copy critiques, the community and courses you get as a member, each month we bring in a special guest to go in-depth on a business or copywriting topic. This August 14, copywriter Francis Nayan who was a recent guest on the podcast will join us in The Underground to share the ins and outs of what we’re calling the one-email-a-day business. He’s going to break down his business model and show you how to sell digital products with a daily email. It can be a great way to diversify your income and if you want to work with fewer clients, what Francis will be sharing could be pivital to creating a business that supports you and your lifestyle. To join us for this workshop. Go to thecopywriterclub.com/tcu and sign up.  And with that, let’s go to our interview with Morgan Kitzmiller. Okay, Morgan, welcome to The Copywriter Club. We like to start with your story. So tell us, how did you become the creator growth manager at ConvertKit? And I suppose it's probably connected to this business that you built for yourself, Root & Rise, as well. Morgan Kitzmiller: So actually, kind of the other way around, I built Root & Rise as a result of being involved and working with ConvertKit for a long time. Starting off at the beginning, this takes us back eight years ago. I had graduated college and was looking for new opportunities. I was an art major. I did not want to go into the art world and was just learning about different jobs or things that were out there. And I stumbled upon ConvertKit. Learn that they were hiring and really growing up the team in many ways at that point in time that was like 2016 was when Nathan our CEO hired a ton of new people like I believe the team went from. maybe four people, four or five people at the beginning of that year to closer to 20-ish by the end of that year. So there was a ton of growth in the company that year. And when I learned about ConvertKit at the time, the tagline was email marketing for bloggers. And that was a world that I had definitely consumed a lot of content in, not a world that I was directly a part of myself. I did not consider myself a blogger, did consider myself a creative being an art major.

A lot of  copywriters don't exactly love working with clients. But what's the alternative? In the 405th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob talked with copywriter Francis Mayan who has build a product business where he sells digital products with an email a day (and grows his list by posting on social media). We talk about what that kind of business requires and how Francis made the switch from client work to selling with email. This is a good one.  Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks Stories Sell by Matthew Dicks Francis's Email List The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Today’s guest has been on the show before… but since his first appearance, he’s created a completely different business that supports him as he travels the world. His old business was writing copy—mostly emails—for clients. The new business sells digital products with a daily email and regular posts on LinkedIn. He still talks about emails, but the shift in focus is significant and has helped free up his time for other activities. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with copywriter and digital product business owner, Francis Nayan. As I mentioned, Francis has been on the show before, but his business has changed so dramatically in the past few years that I thought it would be nice to talk about that change… and knowing that many of you want to sell digital products of your own, this episode will give you a taste of what that requires. Be sure to stick around for this one. Before we jump in with Francis… You’ve heard me talk about The Copywriter Underground often on the podcast. Along with the monthly coaching, weekly copy critiques, the community and courses you get as a member, each month we bring in a special guest to go in-depth on a business or copywriting topic. In August, Francis Nayan who is the guest for this episode will be jumping into the Underground to share the ins and outs of his business. He’s going to break down his business model and show you how to sell digital products with a daily email. If after you listen to this episode, you think, I’d like a business like Francis has, you need to join us for this workshop. Go to thecopywriterclub.com/tcu for more details.  And with that, let’s go to our interview with Francis Nayan. The rest of the transcript is coming...

To get better at copywriting, you need to practice. But how do you get the right kind of practice (and perhaps a few portfolio samples in the process)? Copywriter Wendy Ann Jones joins us for the 404th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to share a new resource that helps you get the practice you need. We covered a lot more than that... you're going to want to stick around for this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson The Copywriter's Workout by Wendy Jones The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: There’s one thing that all writers have in common… that is we write. We write for ourselves and our clients. It’s writing every day that helps us get better at the craft. But if you’re not working with a client, you might be wondering what do I write? How can you use your writing time to create writing samples that read as if they are real and help you get good writing practice?  Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I talked with copywriter Wendy Ann Jones. Wendy quit a corporate job in order to start her own business, but when it came time to practice, she realized there weren’t a lot of resources out there to help. So she created that resource—a book of practice clients and projects you can use to get better at the craft of writing and perhaps even create a few portfolio samples worth sharing with potential clients. If you’re looking for ways to build your portfolio, you’ll want to listen to what Wendy has to share… Before we jump in with Wendy… We have a new gift for you as a listener to The Copywriter Club Podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sized guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. It’s a bit like having a couple dozen of the best copywriters in your pocket advising you on how to find your next client. To get your copy, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket and download this new guide. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Wendy Ann Jones. Kira Hug: Hi, Wendy. Let's just start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? OK. Wendy Ann Jones: So about February 2021 I was really super disillusioned with my job. I was working in corporate and I loved it. I did love it and it was very fast moving, very motivating and then the company took a turn and it was a bit boring. It was a bit boring, a bit dull, and there wasn't anything to learn. And I'm quite a lifelong learner. I'm always obsessed with learning things and like to be occupied and busy. And I was also going through the start of the perimenopause, which, you know, I'm sure a lot of women, women similar age to me will be like, yeah, nodding their heads. And I kind of thought, oh, I need to change, to do something different. I found a copywriting ad. It popped up on my Facebook, and it was like, oh, would you like to work the hours you want to work? And would you like to live wherever you want? And would you like to, you know, all these things? And I was like, yes, yes, that's exactly what I want. Yes, please. Yes, yes. And I've said this a few times before, but it was just that hook was my introduction to copywriting, right? Because it was like they were talking. exactly to me at the time that I needed them and I went on to like a free webinar it's like a five-day little mini training course and I loved it and then I signed on straight away obviously for a full-on copywriting course there and then and yeah just took part in that and obviously the key to that was find yourself ...

What's possible as a content creator? If you don't want to be a  CMO or VP of marketing, how high can you rise? Amanda Natividad joined us for the 403rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and shared her thoughts about how writers can carve out a role as an individual contributor and what that looks like. She also talked about research, growing an online audience and how not to add to the social media noise. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: SparkToro Amanda's Website The Brian Kurtz episode Rob mentioned The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Building an online platform on social media where you can share your thoughts has become an important part of a lot of copywriter’s businesses. A platform like this can be a source of leads as well as a place to grow your influence and share your thoughts. Whether you do it on Twitter, Linkedin, Instagram or somewhere else, it’s more important than ever. And when you do it right, your platform can be a launch pad for all kinds of things—including a writing position where you get to not only do the work you love, but define the way you do it. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I talked with content creator and VP of Marketing at SparkToro, Amanda Natividad. Amanda landed her position by posting great content online and interacting with others on her chosen platform—Twitter. We talked about that as well as how content creators might create individual contributor roles for themselves, how to research using a tool like SparkToro, the platform Amanda would probably choose today if she were starting over and a lot more. This is a great interview with lots of insights. So stick around… Before we jump in with Amanda… We have a new gift for you as a listener to The Copywriter Club Podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sized guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. It’s a bit like having a couple dozen of the best copywriters in your pocket advising you on how to find your next client. To get your copy, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket and download this new guide. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Amanda Natividad.   Kira Hug: Well, let's start with your story. I'd love to hear how you ended up as the VP of Marketing at SparkToro and how you got there. Amanda Natividad: Yeah. This could be too long of a story. Let's see. Go for the whole hour. Rob Marsh: Let's make sure we talk about the test kitchen, all of it. Amanda Natividad: It all started when I was born. No, I'm kidding. No, let's see. Here, I'll try to do my best here. You would think at this point I would be good at this, but I'm not. So here we go. I'll say I was a marketer like in the trenches for what, at least eight years or so before I ever started publishing online, like under my own name, here are my marketing thoughts. Here are my thoughts and work. And once I decided to do that, I was basically all in. Like I kind of just tend to be the kind of person where I'm either in or out. There's no in between. Right. So when I decided to do it, I really went all in. I went all in on writing Twitter threads. Eventually started a personal site and a personal newsletter and then grew that and then slowly expanded onto LinkedIn and stuff. Along this journey, one of my marketing heroes, Rand Fishkin, followed me back, which of course meant that I was mortified instantly and was like, well, now I can't tweet anymore. I think I closed the app for the day and was like, I think I'm done, guys. I got to be quiet now. 

What is good content? How is A.I. impacting the creation of content? And what are the opportunities for content writers in the near future? All good questions that we didn't have answers to. Until we invited Ross Simmons to join us for the 402nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This is a good one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Create Once, Distribute Forever by Ross Simmonds The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Before we jump into this episode, I just want to give you a quick heads up that The Copywriter Accelerator will be opening up for the one and only time this year… at the end of August. I won’t share any details at the moment, you can find out more when you visit thecopywriterclub.com/waitlist. Over the past decade, written content has become a critical marketing component for tens of thousands of organizations looking to get attention online. That content takes a lot of different forms from articles and blog posts to case studies, lead magnets, white papers and other written assets used to attract and keep the attention of readers. But what makes good content? How is AI impacting content writers today? And how do you ensure that you clients see content as an investment that pays off, rather than a cost that they need to cut? Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with content writer and founder of the content agency Foundation Marketing, Ross Simmonds. Ross got his start writing about fantasy football in high school and has been recognized as a top marketer by publications like BuzzSumo and SEMrush. His work has been featured in dozens of publications including Forbes, HuffingtonPost and CBC. Ross answered those questions I just posed and a lot more. This interview opened my eyes to several new opportunities and I think you’re going to like it. But before we jump in with Ross… We have a new gift for you as a listener to The Copywriter Club Podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sized guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. It’s a bit like having a couple dozen of the best copywriters in your pocket advising you on how to find your next client. To get your copy, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket and download this new guide. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Ross Simmonds. Rob Marsh: Ross, welcome to the podcast. You are one of the people that I have had on my list for a long time, and have been wanting to talk to you. We've had a little trouble connecting the last couple of months. You've had some travel and lots of stuff going on. But let's start out the way that we like to here on the podcast. And that is, tell us about your story. How did you become a content marketer and now ultimately founder of Foundation Content Marketing Agency? Ross Simmonds: Yeah, Rob, thanks for having me on. I'm excited for this conversation. I'll take people back into time a little bit. So I've always had a passion for writing and for creating things from the time I was a young kid. When I was a young kid, I fell into that whole meme and being obsessed with the Roman Empire. And I was writing books about what the Roman Empire must have been like. And I was doing that probably when I was like 10 years old. So early on, I was creating and writing chapter books and stuff like that. As time went on, I continued to be passionate about writing and creating.  And in university, I ran a fantasy football blog. And I was writing every single day about fantasy sports and how I thought people should adjust their strategies in the wo...

Finding clients is hard. And it might even be getting harder. But that doesn't mean you can't do it. In fact, there are lots of copywriters who don't struggle to book clients for weeks or months into the future. So how do you do it? On the 401st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with client acquisition specialist, Ryan Guthrie, about the three ways to get clients. We go into depth on this. You're going to like it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: It doesn’t matter how good you are as a writer, if you don’t have good, high-paying clients, you will never have a successful copywriting business. It all comes down to your ability to attract, connect with, and get hired by business owners who will pay you to help them tell their story. And even though we’ve talked about this topic a lot on this podcast, it seems as if there’s always more to learn. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I talked with copywriter and client acquisition specilist Ryan Guthrie. Like many of us, Ryan started out as a copywriter. But he cracked the code on finding clients early on, so other copywriters began asking him for help with their own pipelines. And he shared a lot of how he does it in today’s interview. But before we jump in with Ryan… We have a new gift for you as a listener to the copywriter club podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sixed guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. Ryan shares how he does it on this episode. But once you’re done listening, or now if you are near your phone or computer, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket to download your own copy of this new guide. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Ryan Guthrie... Kira Hug: All right, Ryan, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a client acquisition consultant? Ryan Guthrie: By doing a lot of other things first. I started copywriting in February of 2020, which is an awesome time to start something new. But I was going to be a nurse, right? And I just kind of fell out of love with it. I didn't want to go to work every day and see people having the worst day of their lives. And so I kind of dropped out of college a little bit. And my girlfriend at the time, who's now my fiance, said, Hey, you're a pretty good writer. Here's this course that showed up on my Instagram feed. It's an ad, take a look at it. So I took a look at it. And I was like, I can do this. Sure. It was a copywriting course. I can, I can do this. And so I like, fully dropped out of college and bought this course with all my savings to the horror of my mother. She was like, you know what, you go do this for a year and we'll see what it looks like after a year and then we'll talk about this again, right? So I did that, and so I worked at my regular job from like six to three, six in the morning, three in the afternoon, and then I would get home and I would just do copywriting stuff, right, from like four to like 10, doing hand copy and just trying to learn as much as I could going through this course. After about three months, I got my first client, and it's a funny story, people always think they need to be super polished for that first client. I did my first sales call in the parking lot of a Trader Joe's, And I took notes on the back of an organic cookie box. So just throwing that out there. That was my first ever sales call. I got that client. He paid me $400 for some emails. And then I was like, this is it.

*Boom* This is the 400th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And our guest for this episode is the CEO of The Nonfiction Authors Association, Stephanie Chandler. She recently published the Nonfiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan and we thought it would be great to find out more about how to write, publish and launch a book into the world. Stephanie did not disappoint. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Nonfiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan by Stephanie Chandler The Nonfiction Author Association The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Transcript: Rob Marsh: Before I introduce today’s guest and episode, this is the official 400th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. I’m not sure Kira and I ever envisioned this podcast going this long. In fact, other than wanting to have deep discussions that asked hard questions of expert copywriters, I’m not sure what we expected.  So many people have told us they are copywriters today because they were inspired by this podcast. Or by the stories our guests have shared. Or because they jumped into one of our programs designed to help them grow. So I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for making this podcast the world’s most popular copywriting podcast. And now on to today’s show… We’ve talked about writing a book on this podcast several times. But it’s one thing to want to write a book, and another thing to have the tools and plan to make it happen. So when I got a copy of The Non-fiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan, I thought we should probably interview the author on the podcast and dive into what it takes to write and launch a book. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I talked with former copywriter and current CEO of the non-profit author’s association, Stephanie Chandler. Stephanie founded the Non-fiction author’s association, so she was the perfect person to talk to about this subject as well as when you should take a leap of faith you might not be ready for and what gets taken when thieves rob a bookstore.  But before we jump in with Stephanie…  There’s a question that clients ask before they decide whether something you write is worth paying a lot or a little for. That question is “Can I do this?” Most clients can write a blog post. Or an email. It might not be as good as the one you would write, but they could do a passable job. Those projects don’t feel all that valuable because clients can visualize themselves creating them. They’re not hard. Fewer clients think they can strategize and build an acquisition funnel. Or a sales page. Or a book. So these projects are more valuable to clients (which means you can charge more to do them). And almost no clients have the skills to manage sophisticated email marketing tools like Klavio, ActiveCampaign, or even ConvertKit. And if they do, they’re often too busy to do this work themselves. These skills are among the most valuable of all. So how do you add a skill like managing email marketing tools to your copywriting services? This week in The Copywriter Underground, we’ll show you. We’ve invited guest expert and email strategist Matt Brown to share exactly how to make sure your client’s emails get into their customer’s inboxes. And how to use this skill to set yourself apart from all the other “I-just-write-copy” copywriters out there. It’s a master class for all members of The Copywriter Underground and you can join us if you visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu today. But do it today, because if you’re listening to this a few days after the podcast comes out, it will be too late. Having these skills, makes getting hired by high-paying clients easier. But you have to opt in to get the training. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Stephanie.

When you start writing copy at age 16, you've got to connect with prospects and stand out or you won't be able to compete with more experienced copywriters. And that's exactly what Emilia Tanase, our guest for the 399th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast did. Rob and Kira asked Emilia about how she launched her business, how she connected with two high-level mentors, and her approach to writing emails. There's a lot of good stuff in this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Get Rich Lucky Bitch by Denise Duffield-Thomas The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Emilia's website   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Over the past 7 years of this podcast, we’ve interviewed a really wide variety of people who have made a living out of writing copy and content. They come from all over the world and from all kinds of different backgrounds. But I think today’s guest is different from all of them in at least one way—she started working as a copywriter when she was still in high school. She’s taken a pretty interesting path to copywriting success and her early start is just a small part of her story. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter Emilia Tanase. Emilia has discovered the formula for getting noticed by mentors and figuring out ways to get found by clients without pitching. As you might imagine, starting out in high school meant she’s had to hustle to figure out how to make business work. And there’s a lot to learn from Emilia’s story.   Before we jump into the interview, I want to let you know about an upcoming training happening in The Copywriter Underground that’s absolutely critical for anyone who writes emails—either for their own business or for their clients. Copywriter and email deliverability expert Matt Brown will be sharing his hard won secrets for getting emails into the inbox—rather than the promotions or spam tabs in gmail, yahoo and other bigger email programs. This takes much more than avoiding a few smammy words or reworking your subject lines. And when you know how to do this, clients will hire you to not just write emails, but to manage their web marketing strategy. It could be a game changer for your busienss. But as are most of the masterclasses we curate, this training is exclusively for members of The Copywriter Underground. You can learn more about this upcoming masterclass at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Emilia... Kira Hug: All right, Emilia, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Emilia Tanase: It actually it goes back in time to when I was 16. I started when I was in high school because my mom got really sick and so she was really struggling with keeping up with our bills and holding the household together Unfortunately, at the same time, my dad also lost his job. So she was the sole provider and money was really scarce. And when you're in a small Romanian town, it's pretty hard to find a job right away. So me, a teenager at the time, I was like, hey, how can I make some pocket money, help my parents out, make this a bit easier for all of us, if I can.  I went online and of course I typed in, how to make money in high school. And, you know, there were the typical answers, like, wash cars or walk dogs and whatnot, but these are not really jobs that we do here in Romania. In America, sure, but here not so much. And then I found, be a copywriter or do copywriting work. I was like, what is copywriting? It sounded like, you know, patenting some intellectual property. But I Googled it and I found out it was like this whole thing that people were doing for other businesses.  And when you're that young, you don't think that much about things. So I was like, oh, I can do this for sure. So of course,

The number of people who have listened to all 400+ episodes of The Copywriter Club is likely small. Probably fewer than 100. But today's guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast is trying to add to that number. Copywriter Lauren Esmay has been listening to every episode and posting about them on LinkedIn. We talked about that as well as how she's built her business over the past few years and what's coming next. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The P7 Client Attraction System The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: In the next couple of weeks we’ll post the official 400th episode of this podcast. Unofficially we’re already past that number as we’ve had a handful of un-numbered episodes posted between the official one. If you were going to listen to every episode, I estimate it would take you about 14 days or so without stopping to eat, sleep or do anything else. I’m not suggesting you do that… but I’m not NOT suggesting that you do it either. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter Lauren Esmay. Lauren recently took it upon herself to listen to every episode of this podcast and she’s been posting her take aways from each episode on LinkedIn. Looking back on what she shares has reminded me of a lot of great, forgotten advice and ideas and insights shared by so many smart copywriters over the years. And as you’ll see as you listen to today’s episode, Lauren has used this content tactic to connect with a who’s who of experts in the copy and marketing world. That’s not all we talked about, so stick around to here more about Lauren’s story. Before we jump into the interview, you know I’m going to talk a bit about the best copywriter community The Copywriter Underground. We are working hard to make it the most valuable copywriting community and training vault available anywhere. So we’re constantly adding the latest information and help for our members. One thing that has changed recently is the standard Google, Yahoo and other big emailers are using to determine where the email you send ends up. Sometimes that’s the inbox. Sometimes it’s the spam or promotions folders. And sometimes they decide not to send your email at all. It’s true. You hit send, your email service provider sends your message out into the ether… and Google can simply decide that’s as far as it goes. So we’ve invited email deliverability specialist Matt Brown to share with the members of The Copywriter Underground exactly what you need to do to make sure that doesn’t happen to you… or your clients. It’s happening this month… June 2024. And if you want the latest insights on how to make sure your work hits the inbox, you need to be in this masterclass. We’ve shared some information about it along with all of the other benefits you get as a Copywriter Underground member at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. Let me just add that if you know this stuff that Matt will be sharing, you’ll be a much more valuable resource for your clients than a copywriter who just writes up some emails and hands over a google doc full of copy. In fact, if you add the skills Matt will be teaching to your services, you’ll be more likely to land good, high-paying email clients on long retainers than if you just write emails. Join us at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Lauren. Kira Hug: Lauren, how did you get started as a copywriter? Lauren Esmay: So first, thanks for having me. My way into copywriting is much like many other people I've talked to. There was no linear path. I have several degrees in psychology and I went to med school for a bit. I did a lot of different things that I'm just like, I know I want to help people and this is how I'm going to show up.

Over the past few years the ways we work have changed. And the work we do has changed too. In the 397th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter and regenerative business designer Helen Tremethick about navigating the changes and creating a business that works for you. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman Helen's website Helen's Cuppa Link (talked about on the show) The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: For a lot of freelancers who write content and copy, work has changed pretty dramatically over the past year. Some of us, especially those who are just starting out have been impacted by tools like Claude and ChatGPT. While others may be struggling a bit thanks to layoffs in niches like tech and SaaS. As opportunities change, smart business owners change along with them. And relationships become even more important than ever. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter and regenerative business designer Helen Tremethick. Helen has worked with several business owners as they’ve transformed the work they do. Sometime changing up their deliverables. Other times switching niches or the focus of their work entirely. As we spoke, we kept coming back to one idea… relationships. They’re more important than ever, and that’s one thing that probably won’t change in the near future. Before we jump into the interview, I want to let you know about an upcoming training happening in June in The Copywriter Underground. If you listened to last week’s episode, you learned a bit about the technical things you need to do to ensure the emails you write get to the inbox and not the spam folder and then get opened. But it can be hard to see exactly what to do as you listen to a podcast… it’s audio only, so seeing where to find the tools and settings to adjust, well, you just can’t. So we asked email deliverability specialist Matt Brown to demonstrate exactly how to set up your ESP and google postmaster tools so your emails have a better chance of getting where you want them to go. This is a skill set that clients need desperately. And when you can bring them along with your writing skills, you have what it takes to land high paying email retainers that can last for months or even years. But to get this training, you must be a member of The Copywriter Underground. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu.  And with that, let’s go to our interview with Helen. Kira Hug: All right, Helen, we are not going to start with your story, because that's where we started last time, which we figured out was episode 176. And you figured out it was mid-March 2020, so right before the world changed dramatically. So it's good to be with you again. And I think a good place to start could just be around a line of copy on your website, on your home page, there's a line of copy that says, burn it down isn't good business strategy, but when something's got to give dot, dot, dot, and then you go into your brilliant copy. But that grabbed my attention because I feel like I've heard a lot of people around me recently talking about burning it all down and a conversation with neighbors, business owners. And so from your perspective, Where do you feel like people in the online business space, copywriters, where are they at right now with what they're feeling, what they're doing in their businesses? From your experience coaching them, what are you seeing and feeling right now? Helen Tremethick: Oh my goodness. You know, I actually just had a call this morning where I was talking to somebody about exactly this, where it feels like there's a little bit of a different flavor in the air right now that's different from what we knew before.

We've been talking a lot about email on the podcast lately (see the last four or five episodes). But getting your emails opened takes more than good copy. So for the 396th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob spoke with copywriter and email deliverability specialist, Matt Brown about all the non-copy things you need to know about getting your emails opened. And...how to add deliverability and ESP management to your services so you can attract long-term email clients. This is a good one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: deliverabilitynow.com The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Looking back at the last four or five episodes of this podcast, you might notice a theme. It wasn’t intentional, but somehow the last several guests have all focused on email, email strategy, and creating or running a business focused on a regular or daily email. For some reason, email seems to be having a moment. Maybe it’s the rise of new email platforms like Substack and Beehiv that make writing emails and growing an audience easier than before. Or it might be the fact that it is getting harder to connect with a regular audience on social media… posts, tweets, reels just don’t reach as many people as they used to. And paid ads on those platforms are getting more expensive and less effective. So attracting an audience that you can connect with regularly with email is as important—maybe more important—than ever before. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed copywriter and email deliverability expert Matt Brown. I wanted to talk with Matt because it’s one thing to write and send emails and quite another to do what it takes to make sure those emails actually arrive in your reader’s inboxes and get opened. It happens less than you think. And Matt knows how to fix that. He shared a lot of technical stuff that you have to get right. If you know this stuff, you can be far more valuable to your clients that if you just hand over a google doc with the text of your emails. This is a skill set that can result in long term relationships with great clients. So stick around.   Before we jump into the interview, I want to let you know about an upcoming training happening in The Copywriter Underground on this very topic. After recording today’s interview, Matt mentioned that it can be tough to wrap your head around some of the ideas he shared without a demonstration where he opens up an email account and shows you how to make adjustments. So he offered to show us exactly how to make sure your emails land in the inbox in a training for members of The Copywriter Underground. If you’re listening to this episode and think, I need to know how to do this, or I want to be able to offer this skill to my clients (and earn thousands of dollars from them in the process), then this training is for you. Go to thecopywriterclub.com/tcu and join the Underground today. And we’ll send you details on how to access this incredibly valuable training. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Matt. Matt, welcome to the podcast. I reached out to you because we've been talking to so many people about email. I feel like there's kind of been a change around the way people are thinking about email with all of these new tools that have come online in the last couple of years as far as managing email newsletters and that kind of thing. So I thought it'd be really helpful to have you on, but before we get into all of the things we want to talk about email, tell us how you became not just a copywriter, but an email deliverability expert and copywriter. Matt Brown: Yeah. So I'll give you the long story since we're on a podcast together and it has the inciting incident from a story and then the point of no return. I think this was back in like 2019,

The demand for emails is enormous. And there are probably more copywriters writing emails than any other product. But that doesn't mean those emails are great. Some are barely readable. Others go straight to the junk folder—where they belong. There's never been more need for better emails than today. So for the 395th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we asked email strategist and copywriter Donnie Bryant to share what he knows about email. Donnie is the author of Subject Line Science, a short book that will help you get more emails opened. If you write emails for clients or your own business, you'll want to lick the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript now.   Stuff to check out: Subject Line Science by Donnie Bryant Tricks of the Mind by Derren Brown SubjectLineScience.com The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Let’s talk about email. When copywriters reach out to us, they often ask what’s the best way to learn how to write emails and probably more importantly, land clients who need help with regular emails. And it kind of feels like there’s been a sea change around email over the past couple of years. Maybe it’s because email is a great way to connect one on one… or at least in a way that feels one to one. OR maybe it’s the shift in buying behavior that’s happened over the past decade. I’m not sure… but what I am sure about is that email isn’t going anywhere. It’s getting more important, not less. And it’s a great service to offer for clients who need ongoing help… that is the kind of clients you can work with long term. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed copywriter Donnie Bryant.  Donnie recently wrote a book about subject lines and what it takes to write them, so he was the perfect guest to invite on the show to talk about email, strategizing a campaign—which I asked him to walk through step by step, as well as what it takes to break into the financial copy niche. If you want to write emails as part of your business, you’ll want to listen to this episode until the end. Now before we get to the interview… you’ve heard me talk about the copywriter underground and what it includes. If you’ve been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she’s built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you’ve got to jump into The Underground now. NOTE: Sorry, this bonus is gone. We also have a second bonus… it’s the strategic plan that copywriter Daniel Throssell used to make his client’s book a best seller in Australia. Daniel has only shared this plan one time… to subscribers who paid to recieve his newsletter. It’s not currently available anywhere. Even new subscribers to his newsletter don’t have access. But he offered to give this strategy—completely free of charge—to members of The Copywriter Undergound. And like the Client Emails Masterclass, this member exclusive is only available for one week during the month of May—and only for members of The Underground.  If you were to purchase these bonuses sepearately, you’d pay more than what you pay to join The Underground for a single month. Plus you get all the other training, coaching, and community stuff that comes along with your membership in The Underground. There’s never been a better time to visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Donnie.

Someone's got to be the best. And at least a few people believe that Daniel Throssell is Australia's best copywriter—even if only because Daniel told them he was : ). In the 394th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob brought Daniel into the studio to talk about his email strategy, world building, and how he turned a children's book into Australia's best selling book. And Daniel got real when it comes to what a day in his life really looks like. This is the second time, Daniel has been on the podcast (the first episode is here). Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript of today's appearance on the show. Stuff to check out: Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks Tough Titties by Laura Belgray A great book (Dark Matter) by Blake Crouch Master and Commander by Aubrey Maturin Stop Reading the News by Rolf Dobelli The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Daniel's Website Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you’re going to say you’re the best at something, eventually you’re going to have to back it up. The late Gary Halbert once sent out a newsletter titled “why I am the best copywriter alive”. Of course, any one can make a claim like that. But eventually you have to back it up… and at least when it comes to Gary, he had the clients, the sales, and the results to make a pretty strong claim on the title. Which brings me to the guy that many people call Australia’s best copywriter. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter Daniel Throssell, who has been called Australia’s best copywriter by many in the marketing world. But does he have the chops to back it up? Indeed he does. We covered a lot of ground in this interview—we went really deep on his approach to email, which in many ways he treats as if he’s writing a novel. He also shared a few of the details about his strategy for pushing several books to #1 on the best seller list, a strategy by the way that works for all kinds of products, not just books. And Daniel got real when he talked about what a typical day looks like for him. We think you’re going to like this one. But before we get to the interview… you’ve heard me talk about the copywriter underground and what it includes. If you’ve been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she’s built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you’ve got to jump into The Underground now. We also have a second bonus… it’s the strategic plan that today’s guest Daniel Throssell used to make his client’s book a best seller in Australia. You’re going to hear a little bit about it in this episode, but Daniel only scratches the surface here. Because the only other time he’s shared his strategy was with his paying subscribers and he wants to make sure to honor them by not sharing it elsewhere. However, he has made one exception. He’s sharing it for a limited time with the paying subscribers of The Copywriter Underground for just a few days in the month of May. If you want to learn more about the strategy he teases on this episode, jump into the underground today so we can share the details of how to get your hands on the whole thing with you. There’s never been a better time to visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Daniel. Kira Hug: All right. Welcome, Daniel. I want to kick off with a question about the l...

What is the difference between showing up as a copywriter and showing up as a strategist? In the 393rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Eman Ismail about how she changed her title and the work she does to reflect a new and more satisfying role of "email strategist". Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  When we coach the copywriters inside the copywriter think tank or in our group coaching groups—which by the way are open now and if you’re interested you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/coach—sorry didn’t really mean to take that tangent… but when we coach copywriters one idea that comes up a lot is the need to not just show up as a writer… an order taker… or as a vendor, but rather you need to be a problem solver. And often that means taking on the role of a strategist in addition to the work you do as a writer. But how do you do that? It’s one thing to say, I’m a strategist and quite another to actually do the work that strategy requires. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed email strategist—not copywriter—Eman Ismail. Eman share why she rejects the title of copywriter today and what it really means to show up as a strategist. This might not be the kind of thing a beginner can do, but if you’ve got some experience creating copy and serving your clients, you may be picking up the expertise you need to show up as a strategist for your clients. Be sure to stick around to hear how Eman does it.   Now before we get to the interview… you’ve heard me talk about The Copywriter Underground and what it includes. If you’ve been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she’s built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you’ve got to jump into The Underground now. We also have a second bonus… it’s the strategic plan that copywriter Daniel Throssell used to make his client’s book a best seller in Australia. Daniel has only shared this plan one time… to subscribers who paid to recieve his newsletter. It’s not currently available anywhere. Even new subscribers to his newsletter don’t have access. But he offered to give this strategy—completely free of charge—to members of The Copywriter Undergound. And like the Client Emails Masterclass, this member exclusive is only available for one week during the month of May—and only for members of The Underground.  If you were to purchase these bonuses sepearately, you’d pay more than what you pay to join The Underground for a single month. Plus you get all the other training, coaching, and community stuff that comes along with your membership in The Underground. There’s never been a better time to visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Eman. Kira Hug: Let's start with recent moves you've made to level up in your business. Because when you were here last, we talked about your origin story in your business and how you were leveling up at the time. And what I love about you and just watching you and, and, um, hearing from you is you're like constantly leveling up in big ways. And so why don't you just describe maybe the most recent changes that have helped you get to that next level? Eman Ismail: You know,

When it comes down to it, the thing most copywriters want to build is a business that is high-margin (it makes money) and fun to run (it's enjoyable). But achieving that goal is harder it appears. So we invited Ian Stanley to join us for the 392nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We asked Ian about how he did it—created a business that is profitable and fun. We also asked him about sales coaching, breaking up his partnership, his approach to email and his new comedy special. To hear what Ian had to share, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: How do you create a high-margin company that is fun to run? That’s pretty much the goal we all share… earn enough money for the lifestyle we want—however you define that—that’s the high margin part. And enjoy life doing whatever it is you do, from work to whatever you do in your personal time—that’s the fun to run part. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter, entrepreneur and comedian Ian Stanley. This is actually Ian’s second appearance on the podcast, so we caught up on how his business has changed in the past couple of years. And as we talked about that, we asked Ian about sales training, breaking up a partnership, commedy and buidling a company that makes money and is fun to run. One caution about this episode, Ian likes to swear. We’ve cut most of that out of the interview in order not to offend the censors at Apple who like to put an explicit label on anything rated higher than PG. But if we missed any, we apologize. That’s just who Ian is and how he shows up.   One other thing before we get to the interview… you’ve heard me talk about the copywriter underground and what it includes. If you’ve been thinking about joining this amazing community, let me give you two reasons to jump in now. During the month of May we have two incredible bonuses for members. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank, and will be sharing this usually-paid masterclass with members of the underground… but only for one week in May. And we have a second bonus… it’s the strategic plan that copywriter Daniel Throssell used to make his client’s book a best seller in Australia. It works for non-book products too. Daniel has only shared this plan one time… to paid subscribers to his newsletter. It’s not currently available anywhere. But he offered to give it—completely free of charge—to members of The Copywriter Undergound. And like the Client Emails Masterclass, this member exclusive is only available for one week during the month of May in The Underground. If you’ve been thinking of joining, these are two very good reasons to jump in now—if you were to purchase either one of these bonuses sepearately, you’d pay more than what you pay to join The Underground for a single month. And I haven’t even mentioned all the other training, coaching, and community stuff that comes along with these two bonuses. Visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Ian. Kira Hug: All right, Ian, let's jump in, not with your story, because we know part of your story from our last interview, but let's just start with changes, at least one change you've made over the last four years. Maybe we talked to you four years ago, Rob, do you know? We'll say four years ago. Ian Stanley: Something like that. Kira Hug: Over four years ago. Rob Marsh: I mean, it was definitely, it was what? Episode 208. So it's closing in on four years anyways. Kira Hug: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So what is one big change you've made to your business since we last chatted?...

We've talked a lot about building your authority and finding clients on LinkedIn on this podcast. But I don't think we've ever spoken with anyone who built a six-figure copywriting business entirely on that platform—without a website or any other social media presence. On the 391st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we spoke with Alefiya Khoraki who did exactly that. And if you're looking for clients on LinkedIn, you're definitely going to want to listen to this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: Sell Like Crazy by Sabri Suby The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: After recording almost 400 episodes of this podcast—the official number 400 will be released in about 9 weeks and that doesn’t include several unnumbered bonus episodes we’ve recorded—but with that many interviews under out belts, it gets pretty easy to identify trends and shifts in the copywriting world based on what copywriters tell us about how they find clients, the services they offer and the struggles they go through. And one of the trends we’ve heard about over and overa again in the past year or more is how effective LinkedIn is for finding clients. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter Alefiya Khoraki. She’s built a six figure business in less than a year, primarily by posting content on Linkedin and commenting on other content there. That’s pretty good for someone who got her start trying to raise $800 for a project while she was in school.  But before we get to that, if you’ve been wondering how to use AI in your copywriting or content writing business, I’ve got something for you. A couple months ago i shared the way I use AI tools like Claude and ChatGPT to write bullets, headlines and subheads with the participants of a copywriting summit. It’s a simple google document with the exact prompt I use to write hundreds of great headlines and bullets in seconds. Plus instructions on how to go back and forth with the AI model you’re using to get even better results. You can even add a short ten-ish minute video training where I show you how i use it. If you’re new to writing with A.I., this is a great way to get started. And if you’ve been using A.I. for awhile, this training may open your eyes to what’s possible with a megaprompt. The document is free. And you can get it at thecopywriterclub.com/aiwriter. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Alefiya. Kira Hug: Let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Alefiya Khoraki: So it started in a very weird way. You probably hear this a lot from copywriters. Back in COVID, I started my bakery business because I was still in university and for the final year, we had a very special ceremony for which I needed to raise 800 USD. And I was like, OK, let's try something. So every day I was trying new things. Let's try selling cottage cheese one day. Let's try selling this. Let's try selling that. And then I ended up starting my own bakery because I was working. I was studying in the morning, so I had time for myself in the evenings. And then I started running Facebook ads for that. And I was like, oh wow, I really enjoy this part.  I didn't even know what copywriting is. I didn't even know what A-B testing is. Because for my bakery business, that was the first time I downloaded the Instagram app. So I was very far off from the whole online marketing world. And then a lady was introduced to our community and she hosted a workshop. And there, she introduced me to Boss Babe. Boss Babe is Natalie Ellis and Danielle Canty. And they were doing a summit with Tony Robbins, Young Guys EOC, and all that. And then at that time, to learn all these marketing skills for my bakery business.