Explore every episode of the podcast The Communion Project Podcast

THE COMMUNION PROJECT PODCAST

Episode 1: Fr. Jim Martin and Tim Busch on Friendship, Division, and Dinner

Fr. James Martin, SJ and Timothy Busch have been portrayed by Catholic media as polar opposites. Neither man thinks that framing is accurate, and for seven years, quietly, they've been proving it wrong through private salon dinners: small gatherings of Catholics from across the ideological spectrum, built around Mass, the Rosary, a shared meal, and a favorite scripture verse.

In this inaugural Conversations in Communion episode, host Jonathan Lewis welcomes Fr. Jim and Tim for an honest, wide-ranging conversation about faith, friendship, and what it takes to stay in communion with people you're supposed to disagree with.

Key Moments

[00:08] The Friendship Nobody Expected
Seven years of honest conversation between two men Catholic media placed on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Catholic unity · polarization · dialogue across difference

[13:44] The Salon Dinners
Mass, the Rosary, dinner, a scripture verse. No debate. No agenda. Just people becoming less than strangers — and a possible model for the broader Church.
Community · bridge-building · synodality · parish renewal

[20:09] Formation Stories
Tim rode his bike to daily Tridentine Mass as a third-grader in Michigan. Fr. Jim had an encounter with God in a Pennsylvania meadow he couldn't name until years later.
Catholic formation · vocation · Jesuit spirituality

[24:27] The Mass That Changes Everything
Spiritual warfare, ordination Masses, liturgy with refugees in Nairobi, and what the words of consecration ask of us.
Eucharist · real presence · transubstantiation · liturgy

[31:22] What Breaks Their Hearts — and What Fills Them
Both say division. But Tim points to the largest surge in baptisms and confirmations in 25 years as evidence the Holy Spirit isn't finished with the Church.
Church renewal · sex abuse crisis · hope

[35:41] Pope Francis, Pope Leo XIV, and Unity
Fr. Jim knew Pope Francis personally and participated in the Synod on Synodality. Both men read Leo XIV's early papacy as a continuation — with unity as its defining note.
Pope Leo XIV · Pope Francis · Synod on Synodality

[45:51] The Church's Moral Authority in a Fractured World
On AI ethics, just war, and why the Vatican keeps drawing people who don't share the faith: two thousand years of moral theology is already there.
AI · just war · moral theology · Catholic social teaching

[51:58] Where They Actually Disagree
Sexual ethics, the role of government, Dorothy Day versus Mother Teresa. Communion doesn't require uniformity.
Catholic social teaching · subsidiarity · political diversity

[01:00:45] Advice for Catholics in the Pews
Tim: pray. Fr. Jim: listen without preparing your rebuttal. Be humble enough to be wrong.
Discipleship · dialogue · humility · prayer

Fr. James Martin, SJ is a Jesuit priest, editor-at-large of America Magazine, and author of Building a Bridge, Learning to Pray, and Work in Progress.

Timothy Busch is founder of the Napa Institute and co-founder of the Busch School of Business at The Catholic University of America.

In this introductory episode, host Jonathan Lewis lays out the heart and vision behind The Communion Project. This isn't a space for political debates or surface-level compromise. Instead, it is a podcast where Catholics actively practice communion in real time. We aren’t here to change your beliefs, but to deepen your conviction in a unity that is far greater than any difference.

What if the Synod on Synodality isn’t really about meetings at all? In this episode, host Jonathan Lewis sits down with Julia McStravog, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ point person for the synodal process, to explore how prayer, dialogue, participation, and spiritual friendship can renew the Church’s relationships and mission.

Drawing on her background in ecumenical and interreligious dialogue, Julia describes synodality as a worldwide process of spiritual formation and conversion—not simply another Church program. She reflects on the wounds revealed through the Church’s listening process, the role of religious communities as models of shared discernment, and why genuine dialogue begins with prayer, humility, and the willingness to become comfortable with discomfort.

00:13 — Cold open: why the “Synod on Synodality” is about much more than meetings
01:35 — Meet Julia McStravog and her work accompanying the U.S. synodal process
03:04 — New synod guidelines, continental assemblies, and what comes next
05:53 — Pausing the interview to pray: keeping the Holy Spirit at the center
07:12 — The Adsumus Sancte Spiritus: the prayer accompanying the synodal process
09:34 — Growing up Catholic in “Delco” and discovering a love for theology
12:20 — Being told she wasn’t Christian—and how it inspired Julia’s work in interreligious dialogue
14:18 — Why dialogue with other traditions can deepen rather than diminish Catholic identity
15:50 — Children at Mass and the formative power of genuine participation
20:29 — What is synodality? A worldwide process of spiritual formation and conversion
22:28 — Why Pope Francis believed the Church needed a renewed culture of dialogue
26:31 — Is the American Church really as divided as it appears?
27:46 — Relationship and encounter as remedies for polarization
29:08 — “Enduring Wounds”: what the synodal listening process revealed about pain in the Church
32:10 — Living in communion through the Church’s unity amid diversity
33:44 — What religious communities can teach the wider Church about synodality
36:30 — Pope Leo XIV, religious life, shared authority, and leadership rooted in community
39:39 — What breaks Julia’s heart—and what gives her hope—about the Church today
42:00 — Julia’s most important practice for building communion: prayer
44:34 — Engaging across differences through self-knowledge, humility, and discomfort
47:18 — What families can teach us about living with tension and remaining in relationship
49:03 — Communion, participation, and mission: what the synod is really for
50:34 — Lightning round: pepper jack, parish potlucks, and spiritual friendship
51:12 — St. Francis de Sales and St. Jane de Chantal as patrons for this moment
52:13 — What Julia wants newcomers to know: there are many ways to be Catholic

Julia McStravog accompanies the synodal process for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Her theological studies and professional work have centered on the Catholic theology and practice of dialogue. She previously served in the USCCB’s ecumenical and interreligious affairs office and worked with clergy and professors at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. She has helped guide the U.S. Church’s participation in the global synodal process since 2021.

Is the Catholic Church in America really as divided as the headlines suggest — or are we being told a story that isn't quite true? In this episode, host Jonathan Lewis sits down with Dr. Tim O'Malley, theologian, author, and Associate Director for Research at the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame, to unpack liturgical division, the wisdom of St. Augustine, Pope Leo's early emphasis on unity, and what it really means to live in communion with people who are different from us.

Drawing on Augustine's response to the Donatist controversy, the legacy of Vatican II, and his own conversion story growing up Catholic in the Bible Belt, Tim offers a hopeful and refreshingly honest take on Church unity — and a practical challenge for every Catholic listening.

• 00:00 — Cold open: political idolatry and the worship shaping American life today
• 00:23 — Meet Tim O'Malley: professor at Notre Dame's McGrath Institute for Church Life
• 01:07 — Tim's conversion story: growing up Catholic in South Florida and becoming "the only Catholic" in East Tennessee
• 03:04 — Tim's most formative liturgical memories: confirmation, marriage, and Mass at Notre Dame on 9/11
• 05:01 — Why the ordinary, regular practice of Sunday Mass shapes identity more than the "big moments"
• 06:21 — Why liturgy is so often the flashpoint for division in the U.S. Catholic Church
• 09:26 — Is liturgy a proxy war? How Vatican II's reforms were historically unprecedented
• 12:31 — Most Catholics aren't fighting about the liturgy — so who is, and why?
• 13:58 — "The spicy part": Tim's hot take on infant baptism reform
• 15:11 — Docility and the wisdom of Romano Guardini: letting the liturgy shape you
• 16:03 — St. Augustine's letter to Januarius on liturgical diversity and unity in non-essentials
• 17:07 — What St. Augustine and the Donatist controversy teach the Church about unity amid division
• 20:06 — Naming America's real idolatry: political worship, MAGA, and eschatological hope in politics
• 21:01 — Pope Leo XIV, Chicago roots, and echoes of Augustine, "the Bishop of Hippo," in his early pontificate
• 22:08 — Pope Leo's motto "In the One, We Are One" and what it means for the Church today
• 22:55 — What breaks Tim's heart: exclusion, disunity, and forgetting the gift of grace
• 25:05 — What gives Tim hope: the rise of lay-led ecclesial and apostolic movements
• 27:01 — What does it actually mean to be "in communion"? Why difference is essential to real unity
• 30:36 — Tim's #1 practice for building unity: get off social media and know your literal neighbor
• 31:49 — Lightning round: potluck dish, patron saints for this moment (Augustine and Benedict)
• 32:48 — What Tim wants newcomers to know about the Catholic Church
• 34:06 — Closing reflection: "My fault, my fault, my most grievous fault" — why imperfection belongs in the Church
• 34:37 — Episode wrap-up and where to find more Communion Project resources
  
  About the Guest

  Dr. Tim O'Malley is a theologian and Associate Director for Research at the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame. He holds a PhD from Boston College and has spent his career studying and teaching on liturgy, sacraments, and the life of the Church.

Archbishop William E. Lori has spent nearly 50 years in Church leadership as a priest and bishop, over 20 years as chaplain to the Knights of Columbus, and 14 years as Archbishop of Baltimore, the first Catholic diocese in the United States. His 2026 pastoral letter, In Charity and Truth: Toward a Renewed Political Culture, names something most American Catholics feel but rarely say out loud: our political culture has gone toxic, and we've stopped seeing each other as brothers and sisters.

Host Jonathan Lewis talks with Archbishop Lori about where that forgetting comes from, what it costs a parish, a presbyterate, and a country.

Key Moments

[00:53] Growing up the youngest of four brothers in southern Indiana, and the sacrificial love his parents showed his brother Frankie, who had special needs.
Catholic formation · family · disability and dignity

[03:10] Two Masses he'll never forget: a Christmas liturgy at a homeless shelter that ended in "Jingle Bells," and saying Mass alone at the empty tomb in the Holy Land.
Eucharist · the poor · Holy Land pilgrimage

[05:59] Why American public and family life have grown so divided — collective amnesia about the image of God, an information ecosystem built to inflame, and the fading family dinner table.
polarization · pastoral letter · Catholic social teaching

[09:41] Is the Church a thermostat setting the culture's temperature, or a thermometer just reflecting it back? You can guess someone's news diet by how they react to a homily.
culture of encounter · Evangelii Gaudium · parish life

[13:10] Polarization isn't just a pew problem — forming younger priests, why bishops like each other more than the press assumes, and what changes when a presbyterate eats at the same table.
clergy formation · Church unity · leadership

[17:19] The line that anchors the conversation: do I want my side to win, or do I want Christ to win? Catholic identity ranked below political identity.
Catholic identity · partisanship · synodality

[27:09] Boutique parishes versus real belonging — and why 2,000 Easter converts in Baltimore say something about which one wins.
evangelization · parish renewal · Easter converts

[29:51] From Archbishop John Carroll and Cardinal Gibbons to Isaac Hecker's conviction that being Catholic and being American reinforce each other — in America's 250th year.
US Catholic history · religious freedom · Catholic schools

[37:47] Why a 19th-century parish priest started a fraternal order instead of letting immigrant Catholics join secret societies, and why the Knights are growing again in an age of "Bowling Alone."
Knights of Columbus · Michael McGivney · loneliness epidemic

[41:23] One practice to start with: find someone you're pretty sure disagrees with you, and have an actual conversation.
practical wisdom · dialogue across difference

[42:42] What fills his heart, what breaks it — the condos going up that the Church isn't reaching, and the twenty-somethings packing the oldest cathedral in the country on a Sunday.
hope · evangelization · Church renewal

[44:35] Lightning round: a case for St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, and the one thing he'd want a curious inquirer to know about entering the Church.
Elizabeth Ann Seton · human dignity · evangelization

Guest

Archbishop William E. Lori has served as Archbishop of Baltimore since 2012, leading the oldest diocese in the United States. He previously served as Bishop of Bridgeport, Connecticut, and Auxiliary Bishop of Washington, D.C. Since 2005, he has served as Supreme Chaplain of the Knights of Columbus. He is the author of several pastoral letters, most recently In Charity and Truth: Toward a Renewed Political Culture.

What if unity requires us to lose? In this episode, host Jonathan Lewis sits down with Bishop Michael Mulvey, Bishop Emeritus of the Diocese of Corpus Christi, to explore why communion comes at a cost—and why loving someone does not require agreeing with them.

Drawing on nearly five decades of involvement with the Focolare Movement, Bishop Mulvey reflects on its spirituality of unity, the power of living the Gospel together, and the example of Mary as someone willing to surrender her plans and follow the Holy Spirit. He explains why listening is essential to Christian life, how sacrificial love can overcome polarization, and why priests and Church leaders must choose God—not ministry, programs, or institutions—as their true ideal.

Bishop Mulvey also shares what breaks his heart and gives him hope about the Church, his reflections on Pope Leo XIV’s witness to unity, and why every Catholic has a part to play in building a more welcoming and united Church.

Episode Timestamps
00:51 — Growing up in a Catholic family in Houston
02:05 — An embarrassing—and memorable—childhood experience at Mass
03:48 — Bishop Mulvey’s path through parish, seminary, diocesan, and episcopal ministry
05:02 — Discovering the Focolare Movement and its spirituality of unity
06:45 — Living the Gospel in the devastation of World War II
08:40 — God is love: encountering Jesus in every neighbor
09:35 — Jesus forsaken and the choice to continue loving through suffering
10:25 — Mary’s presence, discipleship, and hidden work of giving life to Jesus
11:21 — Moving beyond ideas to live the Gospel together
12:14 — Why Christian wisdom grows through shared experience
14:49 — What does a spirituality of unity look like today?
15:25 — Unity has a price: becoming “all things to all people”
18:54 — Why the sacrifice required for unity is worth making
19:19 — Every person as a candidate for unity
20:04 — Leadership, discipline, mercy, and trusting the Holy Spirit
21:36 — How clergy and lay leaders can cultivate unity in their parishes
21:52 — Reaching out to those who disagree—and listening more than speaking
23:11 — Synodality, growth, and the danger of seeking security
24:20 — Choosing God rather than making an idol of priesthood or ministry
26:00 — Why we struggle to let go of our plans
27:08 — Mary and the spiritual practice of learning how to lose
29:17 — The seed must die in order to bear fruit
31:23 — What breaks Bishop Mulvey’s heart about the Church today
31:35 — Polarization, stagnation, and competing voices within the Church
34:21 — Why young Catholics give Bishop Mulvey hope
36:05 — Pope Leo XIV and the call to become a Church in communion
38:43 — Refusing to put popes—and one another—into ideological boxes
40:11 — Finding the thread of unity throughout the communion of saints
42:13 — What Bishop Mulvey wants those curious about Catholicism to know

About the Guest

Bishop Michael Mulvey is the Bishop Emeritus of the Diocese of Corpus Christi, Texas, where he served as bishop for nearly 16 years. A Houston native, he has served the Church in parish ministry, Catholic education, priestly formation, seminary leadership, and diocesan administration. Before his appointment to Corpus Christi, he served as vicar general and diocesan administrator for the Diocese of Austin. Bishop Mulvey has participated in the Focolare Movement’s spirituality of unity for nearly five decades.

What if healing polarization begins not with winning an argument, but with asking someone, “How are you?” In this episode, host Jonathan Lewis sits down with Dr. Hosffman Ospino, professor of theology at Boston College and a leading voice on Hispanic Catholic life, to explore how communion, bridgebuilding, and the ministry of presence can renew the Church.

Drawing on his upbringing in Colombia and his experience of Catholicism in the United States, Dr. Ospino reflects on the Hispanic understanding of the Church as family, the difference between healthy disagreement and dehumanizing polarization, and the inseparable relationship between faith and public life. He describes Hispanic Catholics as gente puente—a bridge-building people whose experience of living between cultures can help the Church embrace a “both-and” vision rooted in the common good.

Dr. Ospino also explains why synodality is simply what it means to be Church, how our shared baptismal dignity calls us to listen to one another, and why a meal or cup of coffee with someone who disagrees with us can become a ministry of healing.

00:10 — Welcome and introduction to Dr. Hosffman Ospino
00:22 — Growing up in Colombia and “breathing” Catholicism
01:54 — Experiencing Pentecost at Mass in St. Peter’s Square
03:37 — Communion through the Hispanic Catholic experience of family and community
04:50 — How polarization appears within Hispanic Catholic communities
05:38 — Healthy differences versus dehumanizing ideological polarization
10:55 — Recovering human dignity as the foundation of Catholic life
11:16 — Why faith and public life cannot be separated
14:35 — Public Catholicism and the need to choose communion intentionally
16:11 — Reconciliation, positive anthropology, and becoming instruments of healing
16:44 — Gente puente: Hispanic Catholics as people who live and build bridges
20:21 — “Both-and” thinking, community, the common good, and the American dream
22:34 — Synodality as walking and listening together
23:15 — Why synodality is simply about being Church
27:50 — Entrepreneurship, Pentecost, and recognizing the gifts of every baptized person
29:53 — Turning down polarization by affirming what Catholics hold in common
31:13 — What breaks Dr. Ospino’s heart—and what fills him with hope—about the Church
33:20 — Healing relationships through coffee, meals, presence, and the question “How are you?”
36:08 — Parish potlucks, salads, desserts, and the Catholic “both-and”
37:10 — St. Óscar Romero as a patron for rebuilding communion
39:12 — What newcomers should know about the beauty and mystery of Catholic initiation
40:47 — Closing thoughts

Dr. Hosffman Ospino is a professor of theology and religious education at Boston College’s School of Theology and Ministry and a nationally recognized scholar of Hispanic Catholicism and ministry in the United States. Born in Colombia, he has lived most of his life in the United States and has spent nearly 25 years teaching theology. His work explores how the experiences and gifts of Hispanic Catholics are shaping the present and future of the Church.