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Episode Overview: 

The Breakout Growth Podcast took a break while Sean Ellis was on an epic three-month world tour, where he connected with startups and growth teams across the globe. So, to kick things back into gear, Ethan Garr takes the interviewer’s microphone in this episode to find out what Sean discovered, shared, and learned on his journey.

From the bustling streets of São Paulo to the tech hubs of Singapore, Sean shares the insights, challenges, and surprises he encountered along the way. Whether you're curious about global growth strategies, fascinated by cultural impacts on business, or just love a good travel story, this episode has something for you.

What You’ll Learn:

* The Spark Behind the Tour: Discover the unexpected catalyst that led Sean to embark on his global journey and how a surprising report from China inspired a push toward a million sales of Hacking Growth, the book Sean Ellis co-authored with Morgan Brown.

* Cultural Insights: Hear about the unique growth challenges and opportunities in markets like Brazil, Japan, and India. Sean breaks down how cultural differences shape the way companies approach growth and innovation.

* The Workshop Advantage: Sean explains why his workshops have become a pivotal tool for companies looking to align their teams and supercharge growth. Learn how this hands-on approach is making a real impact for companies worldwide.

* On-the-Road Realities: Get a candid look at the highs and lows of Sean’s journey, including near-burnout moments, unexpected successes, and a crazy story form one of his many flights.

Key Takeaways:

* "Workshops are the missing link that help companies go from knowledge to execution." — Sean Ellis

* "I’ve learned more about what makes a good partner and how to effectively run workshops in diverse markets." — Sean Ellis

Timestamps:

* [00:00] - Intro: Ethan Garr kicks off the episode, explaining the hiatus and Sean's world tour.

* [04:10] - Why the Tour? Sean discusses the unexpected book sales report from China that motivated the tour.

* [12:02] - The Power of Workshops: Sean dives into why workshops are crucial for companies looking to implement effective growth strategies.

* [19:02] - Cultural Surprises: Sean shares insights from different markets, including the impact of cultural nuances on growth.

* [31:04] - Challenges on the Road: Sean recounts the realities of managing a global tour, from exhaustion to logistical challenges.

* [39:02] - Funny Anecdote: Sean shares a humorous and crazy air travel story.

Why Listen: If you're looking to understand how growth strategies play out across different cultures, this episode offers a firsthand look from one of the industry’s top experts. Plus, if you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to travel the world while spreading growth hacking’s best practices, Sean’s stories are not to be missed.

Links & Resources:

* Follow Sean on LinkedIn

* Check out Sean's book, Hacking Growth, here

* Subscribe to the podcast here

Join the Conversation: If you enjoyed this episode, share your thoughts on social media and tag us! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review—it helps more people find the show.

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with positioning expert, April Dunford, author of the best-selling books, “Obviously Awesome” and “Sales Pitch.”

April had a successful career as a marketing and operations executive at companies including IBM and Nortel and it was in these roles that she developed her passion and approach to building effective positioning. Today she shares this passion and her knowledge as a consultant, speaker, and writer with companies around the world. 

In “Sales Pitch”, April lays out her hypothesis that marketers have been taught storytelling that doesn’t work for sales. She says 60% of deals that are started are never finished so it’s often indecisiveness and the status quo that sales teams must work to overcome. Even if you are not focused on sales, you will find a lot of value in this discussion.

Messaging and positioning are fundamental to growth and what we get to in this conversation is a deeper look into how businesses can differentiate themselves, help their audiences discover value, and ultimately break through the noise.

What makes this especially fun and useful is that April isn’t afraid to take contrary and non-obvious positions. As an example, she doesn’t like the concept of Product/Market Fit, and since we do, it made for some good back-and-forth!

So jump into this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast as we learn more about the art of effective positioning with April Dunford.

And thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast. Don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* April's story from executive to “Positioning is my jam!”(06:46)

* The problem with most sales pitches (09:44)

* Why it matters that 60% of started deals are never finished (22:04)

* Building and validating your sales Pitch (27:02)

* Positioning isn’t static; how to keep it fresh (52:44)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by SAP, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr speak with GS Jha, who serves as both Global Chief Information Officer and Chief Information Security Officer at Accuray, a manufacturer of radiotherapy technologies.

When you hear GS’s story it’s evident where his passion for life sciences comes from. As a child growing up in India, GS saw firsthand the impacts of poor access to medicine on his community. 

And while he thought that his contributions to world health might be as a doctor, ultimately his path led to a place where infrastructure and business converged. That intersection is a key reason why GS feels he can be a catalyst for growth at Accuray in his role as CIO.

From GS’s perspective, success depends on aligning the systems he manages with the goals of both the company and the individuals who drive it forward. And what connects these things together is creating value for customers. 

So we think you will enjoy this discussion as you hear why even as CIO, GS sees engaging with oncologists directly as an important part of his role, and why everything from his hiring approach to his considerations for systems and infrastructure is informed by a larger mission to save lives. 

Before you jump in, learn more about SAP's cloud solutions for mid-size enterprises at sap.com/sme. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched-together solutions to manage business finances, operations, HR, suppliers, and customer relationships, leverage the flexibility of SAP's cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success.

Achieve breakout growth success now with SAP at bit.ly/3UUPDxJ

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* On a mission to deliver lifesaving technologies (04:21)

* CIO vs. CTO, what are the differences (07:33)

* How IT functions to unlock a business’ potential (11:31)

* The challenges and importance of driving alignment (27:19)

* Hiring technology people to drive growth (33:11)

* Learning from customers, directly (33:56)

And much, much, more . . .

Product-Led Growth is all the rage, but it wasn’t working

Today, things are looking good for Chameleon and its CEO, Pulkit Agrawal. Since we recorded this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast with him, Chameleon announced a successful Series A. But in 2015 the company was heading towards the startup scrap heap.

That’s where co-hosts Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr pick up this conversation. Pulkit and his co-founders had built a product that offered simple tools to personalize customer experiences with product tours and tooltips. They were following the Product-Led playbook that was driving success for other startups in similar categories all around them. 

The problem was they were running out of money. The business was not taking off even with an easy-to-use self-serve interface and low prices. 

Pivoting to a Sales-Led Go-to-Market Strategy 

If you listened to our previous conversation with the CEO of Fireflies, Krish Ramanelli, you will hear a story where PLG was exactly the right strategy. So why wasn’t it right for Pulkit and his team? And how did he figure it out?

Jump in and hear how focusing on the must-have experience helped Pulkit and his team regroup and reframe the business, why he doesn’t see the world as either Sales-Led or Product-Led and how the tough early journey informed his team’s growth approach.  

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Building a business to solve a personal pain point (03:59)

* Realizing the team had over-indexed on a self-serve model (06:08)

* Learning that intuition isn’t fact (12:48)

* Sales-Led & Product-Led; different learnings, different value (18:30)

* Thinking through customer motivations to drive growth (24:55)

* Building the culture to support Sales-Led growth (43:29)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by SAP, Sean Ellis, and Ethan Garr talk with Sandeep Chouksey, Chief Technical Officer of Harry's, the company that manufactures and sells men's personal care products via online and retail channels. 

It turns out Harry’s has a superpower!  They can spin up a direct-to-consumer brand in just a matter of weeks, and then–if the brand’s potential is validated–roll into an omnichannel marketing strategy almost as quickly.

Unilever, Proctor & Gamble, and other giants of the consumer packaged goods industry are surely taking notice as Harry’s approach threatens to disrupt a variety of established players across markets. And men’s razors are just the beginning. The company, now valued at more than $1.7 Billion, has four brands in six countries . . . One of them is a cat food brand!

What gives Harry’s the confidence to try to make entrances into new and disparate categories? And why are they able to move so quickly? Sandeep explains that it starts with people; Harry’s is very intentional in how it hires people who are ready to “embrace the mammoth” and try new things. 

In fact, Sandeep himself embodies this mindset and in our discussion, he doesn’t sound at all like a prototypical CTO.  He views his role as one of aligning technical resources around their impact on growth, and “figuring out how to be omnichannel”. It’s an approach that seems to be working well for him and Harry’s, a fast-growing company changing the world of CPG.

Before you jump in, learn more about SAP's cloud solutions for mid-size enterprises at sap.com/sme. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched-together solutions to manage business finances, operations, HR, suppliers, and customer relationships, leverage the flexibility of SAP's cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success.

Achieve breakout growth success now with SAP at bit.ly/3UUPDxJ

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* From razors to cat food; leveraging digital capabilities (05:47)

* New speed in CPG; from DTC to omnichannel in a flash (07:19)

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by SAP, Sean Ellis, and Ethan Garr talk with Jonathan Becher, President of Sharks Sports & Entertainment. If you are a hockey fan you probably know the San Jose Sharks, the flagship brand of Jonathan’s organization, but in this discussion, we quickly learned that when it comes to growth, the sports team itself is just one component of an exciting and complex ecosystem.

With its huge media presence, four buildings (arenas and skating facilities), and fans with varying interest levels and unique backgrounds, Jonathan has a variety of tools and resources he and his team can tap into to create meaningful experiences to attract and retain audiences. But it is not without its challenges.

Professional sports are typically steeped in tradition and slow to embrace change, but sports teams can’t afford to ignore the world around them. The Sharks literally live in the heart of Silicon Valley, and the world around them is becoming more digitized every day.  Jonathan sees his job as one of “pioneering the future of sports entertainment,” so growth is then about embracing traditions while at the same time building new, engaging, and interconnected digital experiences for the future. 

A hockey fan at his core, Jonathan believes his staff is up to the task, and he brings a wealth of experience that includes everything from working as a developer to building startups, to even serving as CMO of SAP, to inform his approach. We learned quickly that Jonathan is a growth hacker at heart; working to understand the must-have experiences powering growth, and using data and experimentation to meet the needs of diverse audiences.

Before you jump in, learn more about SAP's cloud solutions for mid-size enterprises at sap.com/sme. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched-together solutions to manage business finances, operations, HR, suppliers, and customer relationships, leverage the flexibility of SAP's cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success.

Achieve breakout growth success now with SAP at bit.ly/3UUPDxJ

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Much more than just a hockey team; Sharks Sports & Entertainment  (05:40)

* A future built on content and connected experiences (28:18)

* Tattoos for die-hard fans &n

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Kevin Indig, who at the time of the interview was the Director of SEO at Shopify. Search Engine Optimization (SEO) can be an important growth driver for startups, but it is an easy channel to misunderstand and get wrong.  We wanted to talk to someone who is best-in-class in this field to separate truth from fiction and find out how growth leaders can support, leverage, and embrace SEO in their businesses. 

Fortunately, Kevin brought his “A” game to the conversation and did a great job of demystifying SEO for our listeners. He explains why SEO is a must-have for some companies, but just a nice-to-have for others.  Then he describes why, when SEO is a necessary channel for growth, companies should invest early and heavily to maximize their potential. 

In the past, SEO could feel very “hacky” and there were definitely a lot of bad actors in the space.  Kevin shows us why today’s SEO is won with a deep focus on delivering value, why it needs to be validated like any other channel, and why elements like backlinks continue to be important. 

While you shouldn’t expect to leave this conversation as an SEO expert, you will very likely be in a much better place to support, guide, and set up your organization for SEO success after you hear Kevin share his knowledge and experience.  This is one of our more directly practical discussions and one we really enjoyed.  

So click that play button and jump in with Sean and Ethan as we look to better understand how to drive growth through Search Engine Optimization with Kevin Indig. 

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* The two dimensions of SEO at Shopify (04:09)

* Who wins with SEO: Aggregators versus Integrators (07:05)

* Misconceptions and constants in a murky world (18:49)

* Practical implementation; how to get started in SEO (34:39)

* Building SEO into a growing organization (36:26)

* Differentiation; why this is a channel that requires specific effort (50:20)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Andrew Davies, Chief Marketing Officer at Paddle. Offering a complete payment infrastructure for businesses in a single stack, Paddle is particularly valuable for PLG businesses, and helps more than 3000 customers in 200 markets set up and sell their SaaS offerings.  

This year Paddle has acquired Profitwell, the recurring revenue growth platform, and raised $200 million in funding (bringing the company’s total valuation above $1.4 billion). As CMO, Andrew intends to continue driving aggressive growth by adapting a playbook he has developed in a career that includes serving as VP of Corporate Marketing at Optimizely and as co-founder of the “demand orchestration” platform, Idio.

Andrew is particularly honest about the challenges that companies face at this stage in their journey. He explains that “scale breaks systems” so it becomes really important to work towards a culture that is not super-prescriptive, but instead looks to “teach people the rules of the game, and then get them to play it themselves.”

Our conversation dives into everything from team leadership challenges, to what the CMO role is and how it creates impact in a fast-scaling organization. Ultimately, Andrew feels that Paddle’s success will be a product of its own ability to help customers drive growth in their own businesses. So jump in and hear how he intends to ensure that Paddle is well-positioned to drive that outcome.

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Andrew’s Journey to CMO, including Idio co-founder and Paddle advisor (06:39)

* Why more complex approaches must replace original, more simple tactics (11:17)

* The Profitwell acquisition and the challenges of taming the chaos (16:08)

* Why leadership cannot be top-down when scaling up (26:15)

* “Tracking is always messed up” – so now what? (29.10)

* The massive shift Andrew sees in B2B marketing (44:05)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by SAP, the world’s leading ERP provider,  Sean Ellis, and Ethan Garr chat with Tim Flaherty, Chief Financial Officer at Enable Injections.  MedTech is an area we hadn’t explored before, but we often find that going outside of what you know can offer new inspiration and insights for all of us working to drive breakout growth success. 

Enable Injections is developing enFuse®, an innovative device designed to improve the lives of patients who depend on medical infusions. This less disruptive system for delivering life-sustaining medications has the potential to drive step-change quality of life improvements for people living with a variety of conditions. Tim is leading the company as CFO, and believes this technology can have dramatic consequences for people who sometimes have to give up their ambitions just to live life around their infusion schedules.

But what does a CFO really do? Are they administrators who simply ensure that money flows in and out of the business efficiently? Or are they the strategic thinkers working to ensure the financial needs of the business support the mission? Tim certainly ascribes to the latter, and in this discussion, we learn how he brings a passion for patients into his work, and how he must constantly think about the future to ensure the long-term health of the business.

Medtech has its own unique challenges, and everything from fundraising to regulation comes into the growth equation, but ultimately, many of the themes we discuss are applicable across industries and markets.  

Before you jump in, learn more about SAP's cloud solutions for mid-size enterprises at sap.com/sme. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched-together solutions to manage business finances, operations, HR, suppliers, and customer relationships, leverage the flexibility of SAP's cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success.

Achieve breakout growth success now with SAP at bit.ly/3UUPDxJ

We discussed:

* Real patients: the hardships of living with in-clinic infusions (04:42)

* Big Tech/Big Pharma – The impact of big budgets for CFOs (07:39)

* Fundraising over $400 million to support a long-term strategy (11:01)

* Once approved, we have to take off like a rocketship! 16:28)

* When companies should hire a CFO (35:03)

And much, much, more . . . 

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube:

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Jacob Eiting, Co-Founder and CEO of RevenueCat. Building the backend system to support subscriptions in a mobile app can take months. Jacob had done this work himself multiple times as an engineer and realized there had to be a better way. So today, mobile developers rely on RevenueCat’s APIs and SDKs to quickly add, manage, and grow subscription revenue in their businesses.

For startups, time is a precious commodity, so being able to offload work that isn’t directly focused on improving customer experiences can be super-valuable. But it isn’t just time-savings that RevenueCat delivers.  

Working within the confines and ever-changing world of Apple and Android’s walled-gardens can be daunting for developers. RevenueCat deeply understands these ecosystems and uses that knowledge to make it easier for every customer to thrive on these platforms. The company wins by helping its developers grow their businesses, and it is clearly working as RevenueCat itself has grown into a go-to solution for mobile developers around the world.

But, the work isn’t done. Jacob is pushing his team to look for additional ways to ensure RevenueCat is adding value for customer throughout their entire journey.  He wants the company to, “be the Salesforce of what we do”, helping and empowering people who build apps at every step.  From our conversation, it seems like he and his team are well on their way.

Whether you are an app developer or not, this is a great conversation for anyone looking to better understand why directly aligning your company goals with the goals of your customers is a winning formula for sustainable growth. 

Take a listen, we think you will really enjoy this one!

We discussed:

* The RevenueCat backstory: from subscription frustration to accessible solutions (04:52)

* “Building on the back of a giant;” adding value within Apple & Android’s walls (15:01)

* The importance of being part of the wider developer community (17:59)

* Figuring out RevenueCat’s long-term value for customers  (27:52)

* OKRs and other efforts to drive alignment (46:20)

* Jacob’s most valuable growth learnings (55:18)

And much, much, more . . .

How do you find your first growth channel and is that what you should be thinking about today? That’s the topic of this week’s Growth Snack: The Breakout Growth Podcast Short with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr. We dive into common mistakes startups make in searching for that first scalable channel, and offer some practical advice to help you make good decisions along the way. 

We also mention a couple of resources you might want to check out:

* “Traction,” a book by DuckDuckGo Founder, Gabriel Weinberg offers a framework for identifying and testing potential channels.

* The First1000, (https://thefirst1000.substack.com/) offers inspiration on how to get early customers. 

* "Do Things That Don't Scale" (http://paulgraham.com/ds.html) Paul Graham's famous article emphasizing the importance of validating Product/Market Fit before looking for a scalable growth channel. 

So jump in, and in less than 10 minutes you will have food for thought as you work to achieve breakout growth success in your business.

We discussed:

* First growth channel mistakes Sean and Ethan see companies make (00:18)

* Why for some businesses certain channels need to be thought about early (02:24)

* Frameworks and resources for finding your first growth channel (05:01)

* You will need to experiment! (06:17)

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Rajesh Jain, founder and managing director of Netcore Cloud. Rajesh bootstrapped Netcore into existence in 1998. Today, still without any outside investment, this global marketing technology company earns nearly $100 million in ARR.

More than five thousand brands use Netcore to help create digital experiences for their customers with email, personalizations, nudges, and other tools. In India, the company has captured about 75% of the B2C email market, and they are a dominating force in many emerging markets around the world. But for the first ten years of Netcore’s life, growth was slow. 

That changed when Rajesh realized that despite his early successes (he sold his first business for $100 million), he did not have the right leadership skills to drive Netcore to its full potential. So, with that self-awareness, he put ego aside and hired a CEO to lead the company’s next chapter.  

That decision allowed Rajesh to provide leadership in different ways, and his story offers valuable lessons for anyone evaluating how they can make an impact in their roles. At the same time, Netcore was able to blossom. Today the company shares similarities with businesses like Braze and Twilio, offering services that help customers acquire, engage, and retain users. 

So join Sean and Ethan as they learn from Rajesh’s thoughts on everything from the hidden value of conferences to “understanding customers’ vocabulary” and much more. 

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Netcore, a B2B SaaS company for B2B companies (05:19)

* Rajesh’s Early success and the “Midas Touch” fallacy (25:29)

* Moving into Martech (41:44)

* What a new CEO brought to the table (44:01)

* “Don’t lose someone else’s money!” (33:38)

* Growth through acquisition (38:40)

And much, much, more . . .

If you want to know just how awesome AllTrails is, just ask Apple! Out of over 2 million apps in the App Store, AllTrails is one of just three finalists waiting to hear if they have been selected as Apple’s 2023 App of the Year. So, of course, we are delighted to welcome back to the podcast, Ron Schneidermann, AllTrails’s CEO. 

Ron first joined Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr for a chat back in early 2022. At the time, the company was riding Covid-driven enthusiasm for socially distanced activities and had recently raised $150 million in private equity funding. Now, almost two years later, we wanted to hear how it has been going for this hyper-growth app that helps people have fun exploring the outdoors.

After the pandemic, Ron and his team were determined to continue accelerating growth and that meant pushing in new directions while at the same time building on what was already working well. To keep moving forward, they made big bets on international expansion, invested in new areas like e-commerce, and kept the focus on improving mindset and execution. And the growth has continued. 

“Momentum begets momentum,” says Ron, and while the flywheel has accelerated and many of the bets have worked out, it hasn’t all been easy. In this conversation, Ron shares not just the wins, but the struggles and challenges that come hand-in-hand with managing rocketship growth. 

There is a lot to this episode. From valuable learnings when looking to expand across borders to a really important discussion on leadership and vulnerability. And you will find out what it means when Ron says at AllTrails “Authenticity is our currency.”AllTrails. 

So jump into this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast. And thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast. Don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Obsessing on growth, not just maintaining the status quo (08:43)

* “Much harder than we expected;” pushing for international growth (14:40)

* Modern growth structure. Is “head of growth” obsolete? (35:43)

* Growth as a role of influence, not ownership (36:36)

* People challenges and hypergrowth; avoiding toxcity (44:55)

* Authenticity as a personal core value (52:16)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Charlie Cole, Chief Executive Officer at FTD Flowers. In March of 2020, it was day one of a global pandemic, and day one of Charlie’s new job at a 110-year-old, global flower delivery company that had recently gone through a bankruptcy. The odds seemed stacked against him, but in this conversation, we discover that whether you are managing a startup or a turnaround there are fundamental similarities that power a winning approach. 

Most startup leaders–under tremendous pressure to hit promised numbers or simply to not run out of money–make a common mistake; they try to do everything all at once. Similarly, in a turnaround situation, Charlie explains that “there is so just so much that is broken,” but the only way to fix everything is really to just focus with intensity on a very few of the most important things. 

If you enjoy unfiltered honesty, you are probably going to love this conversation. When we asked Charlie why he delivers flowers himself on Valentine’s Day, he admitted that at first it was just because he didn’t know what else to do. And when we asked him about starting his role in a pandemic he says, ”I was completely unprepared . . . but I think if we're being honest, anyone would be completely unprepared!” 

Delivering flowers helped him better understand the florists and customers FTD served and helped him to create a new culture that would put FTD back on solid footing.  And starting in chaos forced him to find new pathways to build trust with employees and customers.  It has not been easy, but Charlie says it is the most fun he has ever had. 

If you listened to last week's Growth Snack, you will know just how inspired Sean and Ethan were by this discussion.  So jump in with us and Charlie Cole as he shows us another side of breakout growth success.  

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* FTD’s origins as a wire service: “the first peer-to-peer network” (05:05)

* Charlie’s biggest surprise coming into his new CEO role (09:36)

* “There's just so much broken”–ruthless pragmatism, because you can’t fix it all at once (20:32)

* What does success look like when you are rebuilding? (32:36)

*  Differentiation is important, but it's equally important to know how you're not different (39:02)

* Walking the walk; why Charlie delivers flowers himself and what it’s taught him about customers and suppliers (37:51)

And much, much, more . . .

Growth isn’t about doing everything, it’s about doing the right things. That’s the topic of this week’s Growth Snack: The Breakout Growth Podcast Short. This concept came into sharp focus for Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr when they spoke with Charlie Cole, the CEO who has led the turnaround of FTD Flowers (full episode next week). A standout learning from that discussion is that startups and turnarounds often make the same crucial mistake: they try to do everything all at once.

So where should you point your relentless focus? And what is the order of operations that prevents you from simply throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks? In this episode, we look to answer these questions as we dive into the importance of getting the right people to the right experiences with qualitative and quantitative learnings, and more. 

So jump in, and in less than 10 minutes you will have food for thought as you work to achieve breakout growth success in your business.

We discussed:

* Even the best leaders will try to do too much all at once (00:45)

* The order of operations matters; slow down and focus (01:15)

* Don’t let the pressure to hit numbers force poor execution (02:00)

* Growth isn’t just about channels, focus on core customer challenges (03:13)

* Get the right customers to the right experiences (03:45)

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Krish Ramineni, Co-founder and CEO of Fireflies.ai.  The Fireflies.ai video conferencing bot is an AI assistant that takes searchable notes to help teams maximize their productivity on Zoom, MSFT, Webex, and other video conferencing platforms. We dive in with Krish to get to the heart of why Product-Led Growth has proven to be the right approach for his team, why it is not right for everyone, and why Fireflies now plans to move beyond their purely self-serve model.

And that might be what makes this conversation so interesting. Even though Fireflies has crushed it with PLG they are also learning and adapting every day.  “Let people buy the way they want to buy” is a mantra for Krish and his team, but through data and experimentation, they are continuing to better understand what drives value for their customers. They have learned that some users do need a more conversational approach to succeed, so Krish is hiring a sales team to support that audience.

We have seen evolutions like this from purely self-serve to hybrid models in other fast-growing companies like Slack and Hubspot and it shows how the best PLG companies are always working to better understand their growth engines and customers.

So dive in with Sean and Ethan as they look to uncover what’s driving breakout growth success at Fireflies.ai

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

*  From Project Manager at Microsoft to Fireflies.ai (06:35)

*  Let people buy the way they want to buy (12:19)

*  Why hiring salespeople is now on the radar (13:54)

* Not every product is right for PLG, but it shines for collaboration tools (16:49)

*  Building and monitoring predictability in growth (41:12)

*  Growth is repeatable (54:16)

And much, much, more . . .

Is differentiation always important? If you are trying to grow, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr, say it absolutely is, but it is not just about offering unique features. That’s the topic of this week’s Growth Snack: The Breakout Growth Podcast Short. Learn why it iscrucial to understand what the must-have experience looks like through the eyes of your customers, and why that is important in helping you to differentiate your business even in a crowded market.

You might be surprised as you learn how Sean approached differentiation when he was interim head of growth at Dropbox. Or, you might find some inspiration as Ethan describes a company he is working with now that is launching a new product that will compete against products that solve the same problem for customers. Perhaps this will get you thinking about new questions to ask your customers to better distinguish your offerings.

Either way, we think you will enjoy it! So jump in, and in less than 10 minutes you will have food for thought as you work to achieve breakout growth.

We discussed:

* The hot market trap; why copycats struggle to grow (01:03)

* Differentiation is not just about nifty features or lower pricing (01:51)

* What do customers see as unique? A lesson from Dropbox (03:41)

* Why you should never assume fit transfers across products (05:24)

* Fast-followers and other takeaways (07:21)

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Tony Beltramelli, Uizard’s Co-founder and CEO. If you can picture a perfect up-and-to-the-right curve, then you can visualize what growth looks like for this AI-powered product design tool created for non-designers. To learn what is powering the company’s success we asked Tony to dive further into a LinkedIn post he published where he asked the question, “What did we learn and what did we do differently?” It turned into an amazing discussion.

Product and growth people can easily see the appeal of a rapid-prototyping tool that can turn even hand-drawn sketches into websites, mobile apps, and software designs, but despite that promise, Uizard (pronounced Wizard) was still struggling to grow in its early days. As a technical founder, Tony was frustrated that he could not just fix the problem by writing more code. 

Fortunately, with learnings from “Hacking Growth” and insights from Superhuman’s CEO on building a Product/Market Fit Engine, Tony and his team discovered what was actually driving must-have experiences for users. That proved to be a huge confidence booster, and with those learnings, the company’s trajectory shifted quickly and drastically.

What we love about this conversation is Tony’s honesty and enthusiasm. Even though his LinkedIn post took pride in the company’s huge achievements, he wasn’t bragging. It seems that Tony wanted to share what he learned on this “wild ride” to inspire and help others. Turning customer learnings into processes, investing in data, and narrowing the company’s focus have all been key elements of Uizard’s success, but it also appears that creating a great culture to support those efforts has been equally important. 

As of our recording, Uizard is looking for Growth Engineers and Marketing Designers to join their team, so if you are looking for an early-stage rocket ship, you may want to get in touch. Jump in and let’s find out what is behind Uizard’s breakout growth success.

Tony’s original LinkedIn Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tony-beltramelli-513b1219_founders-startup-saas-activity-6889230200631111680-xdSW

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Sharing a hockey stick graphic and learnings from a wild ride and on LinkedIn  (08:30)

* Junior founders and early assumptions (11:52)

* How the Product/Market Fit Survey helped change the growth trajectory (12:38)

* Uizard&rsquo

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

If you want to generate more raving fans for your business build a machine to understand what drives some of your users from awareness to white-hot enthusiasm. That is the theme of this week’s Growth Snack: The Breakout Growth Podcast Short with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr. The ”Perfect Customer Loop” is a way to visualize the journey that evangelizer-customers follow as they try, use, and fall in love with your product. 

In our last Growth Snack, we talked about the trap companies often fall into when they achieve product/market fit but fail to understand it deeply enough to operationalize growth effectively. This conversation builds on that and will help you avoid that mistake while tapping into the emotions that drive users to your product’s must-have experience.

So jump in with us, and in less than 10 minutes you will learn how The Perfect Customer Loop can help you accelerate growth.

We discussed:

* “The Perfect Customer Loop”, a tool for dialing-in product/market fit (00:34)

* The value of visualizing retention and referral in action (02:56)

* How teams win with this exercise (04:03)

* Leveraging the learnings to improve speed-to-value  (05:23)

* Warning; don’t fall into this trap (05:41)

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Mayur Gupta, Gannett’s Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer.  Very few industries have been as dramatically impacted by digital disruption as the newspaper industry, so we wanted to learn from Mayur how he approaches and looks to drive growth in a world of constant change. 

Gannett owns USA Today and more than 1000 other daily and weekly publications. As the world has shifted from print to digital consumption of media, the company has had to evolve from its legacy media roots into a content subscription business. Mayur describes Gannett today as “The Netflix of non-fiction content” and that has meant a new approach to marketing and growth. What has not changed is Mayur’s underlying beliefs about what drives sustainable growth.

Mayur describes growth as foundational, and not just a tactic or a hack. And he goes on to explain that sustainable growth is a mindset and culture where you work to create flywheels that grow the brand, grow the user base, and grow user value. So when the world is changing around you, as is now the norm in the newspaper business, there is still firm ground from which to view and seize opportunities. 

This is our second conversation with Mayur, who joined The Breakout Growth Podcast a few years ago when he was at Freshly. He also previously led growth at Spotify. So as we look to learn more about how to lead and navigate growth in a rapidly changing environment Mayur’s perspective is both unique and powerful. 

Let’s jump in with Mayur Gupta, and don’t forget to subscribe to `the Breakout Growth Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA

We discussed:

* Joining Gannett, “The Netflix of non-fiction content” (06:44)

* The formula for sustainable growth: grow the brand, grow the user base, grow user value (10:23)

* Seizing digital growth while respecting a loyal but ebbing print market (17:29)

* North Star Priorities, OKRs, and Cross-functional pods (35:00)

* Managing through data blind spots (26:00)

* Establishing ourselves as a “trusted destination” (54:23)

* Growth is a foundation and an outcome (56:00)

What are the biggest mistakes companies make after they find product/market fit? Find out in this week’s Growth Snack: The Breakout Growth Podcast Short with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr.

It can be hard enough to find product/market fit in the first place, but even companies that do achieve this milestone often fail to build sustainable growth. So in this discussion, we tackle two key reasons why companies tend to stumble at this juncture. But more importantly, we talk about the strategies successful teams employ to avoid these errors and thrive.

Product/market fit isn’t a gate that you pass through and then leave behind as you move on to growth. It’s the foundation on which you build and operationalize your business. So jump in with us and find out how to stay focused on what really matters at a crucial time in your organization’s journey to breakout growth success. 

We discussed:

* Two common mistakes for companies with product/market fit (00:36)

* How teams can focus on learnings to avoid mistake #1 (01:52)

* Why teams get this wrong (04:24)

* Monitoring product/market fit to stay on track (05:40)

* Product/market fit; not just a startup thing (06:36)

Please subscribe to our new Breakout Growth Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Oren Kaniel, AppsFlyer’s CEO and cofounder. AppsFlyer is a mobile marketing analytics and attribution platform. When Apple announced the vast app tracking transparency changes it deployed in 2021 it shook the Mobile Marketing Partner (MMP) ecosystem. So we wanted to learn from Oren how a fast-growing company like his was able to navigate and lead through this massive sea change.

One of the standout moments from our conversation was when Oren explained that as these external forces of change began to manifest around him, he asked the question, “What do we know won’t change?” With so much uncertainty in the industry, knowing what he and his team could safely rely on to stay the same helped define the starting point from which they could meet the challenges and embrace new opportunities as they emerged.

This was quite instructive and fits in with the longer view of the world Oren takes. Rather than getting hung up on what will happen in the next year or two, he tries to look at the world through the lens of ‘where are we going,’ five years, ten years, and even beyond. In the startup world, it is often difficult to expand one’s view beyond the urgency of the moment, but AppsFlyer’s success demonstrates the importance of balancing that urgency with what will be important to the business over the longer term.

Google recently announced its own round of privacy changes, similar to what Apple has instituted. Undoubtedly, this will further impact AppsFlyer and the entire mobile ecosystem. Despite the chaos this creates, companies like AppsFlyer will find ways to continue to thrive and grow.  

Dive in with us and find out how to lead growth when the world around you is in flux, and please subscribe to our new Breakout Growth Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA

We discussed:

* The beginning of AppsFlyer; noticing an imbalance in 2010 (06:14)

* The business of enabling businesses; 10,000 partners from Salesforce to Facebook (10:21)

* Apple and IDFA; staying focused through challenge and change (24:52)

* “What we know won’t change” (28:44)

*  A future with winners and more complex solutions (56:07)

And much, much, more . . .

Prioritizing experiments is a bit of an art and a science, but how do you get it right? Find out in this week’s Growth Snack: The Breakout Growth Podcast Short with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr.

When Sean was struggling to find a good way for teams he led to compare growth ideas across dimensions he needed a tool that would balance the need to move the needle with the need to move fast. He came up with ICE scoring, and since then, thousands of growth teams have used this as their starting point for choosing experiments. 

In this Growth Snack, we share insights that will help you tune whatever approach you use for prioritizing experiments.  Whether you use ICE or another system, this quick conversation can help you think about the best ways to surface and choose the high-impact ideas most likely to accelerate growth in your business.

We discussed:

* What’s important when picking growth ideas to test (00:57)

* The basics of Impact  (02:59)

* Understanding Confidence (04:09)

* Using a little bit of creativity to assess Ease (05:13)

* Haphazard testing and other pitfalls (06:30)

And much, much, more . . . 

According to Todd Olson, Pendo’s founder and CEO, ‘the market isn’t just receptive to AI, it’s demanding it!’  So in this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr dive deep with Todd, to better understand what this and other changes in the world of product, marketing, and growth will mean for businesses.

Pendo helps companies accelerate how they build and launch products that customers actually want by combining the power of analytics tools with messaging and customer experience features. For Product-Led Growth companies, this can be quite powerful as it helps teams intelligently use analytics to understand and drive specific valuable behaviors. 

In this spirited and fun conversation, we get a sense of Todd’s approach and philosophy, and how that has helped drive Pendo’s international growth over the past 10 years.  From the outset, the company was focused on improving customer experiences in software, but in the past few years, they have been able to accelerate that mission by investing in machine learning.

Todd says it’s really important to understand that the “mindset drives the tech,” not the other way around, and he’s built a culture to support that. Just as with our last podcast episode with the VP of EMEA from Moloco, Todd is laser-focused on building enthusiasm around outcomes from technology, not on the technology itself.

He says teams have a tendency to celebrate when they ship software, but really the celebration should start when the desired outcome is achieved. It’s this kind of candid and thoughtful growt-minded thinking that made for a great discussion and undoubtedly has been foundational to Pendo’s success thus far.

So jump in! And thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast. Don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Building Pendo with a mission to improve experiences in software (06:10)

* Speed of innovation is important, but we have to balance change (13:22)

* What AI means for businesses and how to embrace it (18:14)

* Marketing and product’s relationship to data has changed at a different pace (22:00)

* In the future, every PM is thinking about growth (37:31)

* Smarter and more efficient: the impact of a down economy (47:58)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Victoria Repa who is the founder and CEO of BetterMe, a Ukraine-based developer of health and wellness mobile apps. We have held off on publishing the podcast for a few weeks as the world has been focused on the tragic situation in Ukraine. We did not want to do anything to shift the focus but decided to share this episode now in the hopes that it could help Victoria amplify her messages to the growth community asking for help and support in Ukraine. Victoria shared these links with us and, if you are in a position to help, we hope you will consider doing so: https://how-you-can-support-ukraine.super.site/ and https://bit.ly/3IDf3tw

Our hearts go out to Victoria, her 230-person BetterMe team, and all of those impacted by this war. 

BetterMe Health Coaching and BetterMe Mental Health are mobile apps created to make health and wellness more accessible. Victoria’s philosophy centers around helping people develop healthy habits that over time transform into an overall healthy lifestyle. In just over four years, the apps have grown to a combined total of more than 100 million users around the world.

Driving BetterMe’s growth trajectory is an intense focus on experimentation and learning that is guided by a “fail fast and fail cheap mantra.” This approach allows Victoria’s team to continuously improve its understanding of users, their behaviors, and the problems they look to BetterMe to help them solve. 

Learning and evolving is critical in growth, and the BetterMe journey demonstrates how fast-growing companies use data to continuously optimize their offerings. At one point BetterMe had seven apps in its portfolio before eventually consolidating down to a single offering. Then, as B2B opportunities came into focus, Victoria’s team iterated again to add a second mobile app to address changing market needs.

We hope this pre-war story will help shine a light on the contributions and achievements of Ukrainians. Please consider visiting the links shared above to find out how you can help. In addition, here are a few other organizations working to make a difference in Ukraine:

https://wck.org

https://help.rescue.org/donate/ukraine-acq

https://www.care.org

https://novaukraine.org

We discussed:

* Making healthy lifestyles accessible to everyone (5:50)

* Victoria’s inspiration and journey to BetterMe (10:19)

* The Silicon Valey growth approach powering the business (12:16)

*  Powering growth through data (28:33)

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Kevin Yip, Blueboard’s Co-Founder and Chief Operating Officer. Blueboard is a platform that allows companies to reward employees with amazing experiences; anything from a skydiving adventure to dinner at a Michelin-rated restaurant is fair game. How does a company with such a unique business concept not only achieve product/market fit but stay dynamic enough to retain it through challenging times? In this episode, we find out.

While entrepreneurs often dream of bringing new ideas to market that nobody else has thought of, it can be a huge challenge to get from zero to one with a completely new idea. Kevin and his co-founder had their work cut out for them in their early days. They literally went door-to-door to try to get companies and their HR teams excited about the value of Blueboard experiences.  An intro into GoPro proved to be a boon for the fledgling business, and eventually, Blueboard’s vision of an experience marketplace came to life. 

The team continued to dial-in product/market fit. They learned how to more effectively sell into HR, they developed feedback loops to ensure that as employees enjoyed Blueboard rewards they were able to effectively share their experiences with their colleagues and more. The company had found its footing and was on a roll and then Covid hit. But Kevin’s team understood their product/market fit and quickly figured out how they could continue to bring value to employers and their employees in the new stay-at-home environment.

Take a listen, and please subscribe to our new Breakout Growth Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA

We discussed:

* “Rewards really matter;” how Blueboard makes an impact (08:29)

* Customer vs. investor conversation; why it’s not just about giving employees more money (38:41)

* Door-to-door; finding product-market fit one company at a time  (26:01)

* The James Bond Experience (32:01)

* What happens when the world shuts down; product/market fit and COVID (33:55)

* Feedback loops; amplifying the Bluebaord experience (42:28)

And much, much, more . . .

How can growth teams win by borrowing a bit from their engineering counterparts?

Find out in this week’s Growth Snack: The Breakout Growth Podcast Short. Here, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr discuss the idea that growth teams win when they “Write the Report Before they Run the Experiment”.  Ethan says growth teams that do this run better experiments, more frequently, with more predictable outcomes.

Sean likes the idea because he has seen just how difficult it can be to get high-tempo testing to take flight. Because this technique forces teams to start with the end in mind as they run experiments, he believes it is a good habit to get into if you are looking to improve your growth trajectory.

If you want to learn more about applying this concept after you listen, visit, “Write The Report Before You Run The Experiment” on BreakoutGrowth.net

https://bit.ly/3sEo8f0

We discussed: 

* Writing the report first is a good idea if you want to test more effectively (28.81)

* Why faster testing shouldn’t come at the expense of quality learnings (01:18)

* Documenting what you are going to do; a lesson from GoPractice!  (03:48)

*  Begin with the end in mind to think ahead and drive test/learn cycles (04:26)

*  Who should build this habit (05:34)

This week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast is sponsored by Rise with SAP and features Garima Sinha, Instacart’s Head of Growth. Instacart makes it easy to get groceries conveniently delivered to your home, but that is just the beginning. The company is working to bring that same convenience to a wide range of products we use in our daily lives. Garima joined less than a year ago after serving in growth roles at Facebook, so we wanted to learn more about what drove her successful transition and how her experience can help other growth professionals. 

People are more mobile in their careers than ever before, but moving from one large fast-growing company to another, especially in a leadership role, can be difficult.  Garima explains that while it was not an easy decision to make the change in the first place, Instacart offered new challenges that she was hungry to embrace. When she says, “there was much to do,” you can hear just how excited she was to take on her new role.

Bringing her passion for both the challenges and the mission clearly have been key elements of her success at Instacart, but Garima also offers practical insights when making this kind of career change.  From building a team culture where individuals play a key role in the decision-making process to spending the time to dive into the levers she had less experience with, Garima shares a path that others can follow.

And of course, because she is specifically leading growth, this episode is full of actionable insights around data and experimentation as well. 

Please remember to check out this week’s sponsor, RISE with SAP S/4Hana Cloud. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched together solutions to manage business finances, operations, and customer relations, leverage the flexibility of SAP’s cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success. 

RISE with SAP Link: bit.ly/3u27Ay6

Please take a moment to rate and review The Breakout Growth Podcast wherever you listen. 

We discussed:

* Grappling with the decision to move from Facebook to Instacart (04:28) 

* Thinking of growth as the full funnel (13:47)

* What Garima did first when taking on this role (15:41)

* Conviction; why growth leaders shouldn’t give up easily on their first instincts (34:47)

* Deferring decisions to the teams (35:58)

And much, much, more . . .

This week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast is sponsored by Rise with SAP and features Ron Schneidermann, the CEO of AllTrails. Conventional wisdom says that you need product/market fit before you can grow, but sometimes conventional wisdom gets it wrong. For AllTrails Product/Channel Fit came first. 

Today, outdoor enthusiasts love the AllTrails mobile app and website and use them to navigate and enhance their adventures with hand-curated trail maps, and other useful tools like crowdsourced photos and reviews. But, when Ron started, he found that the product was actually quite a mess. Fortunately, he looked beyond that when he saw the acquisition data and realized a big opportunity lay ahead.

If he and his team could overcome their product challenges and leverage existing SEO and other organic channels that were already working surprisingly well to attract the right type of users, then he believed they could deliver on their mission to kindle the spirit of adventure and help millions of people enjoy and connect outdoors.  

Today, AllTrails is on a tear. The profitable company has over 1 million paying users, recently raised $150 million in new funding, and has big plans to continue growing around the world. For anyone analyzing potential opportunities or developing a growth strategy, this is a conversation sure to get you saying, “wow, I never thought about it that way.” 

Before you jump in, check out this week’s sponsor, RISE with SAP S/4Hana Cloud. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched together solutions to manage business finances, operations, and customer relations, leverage the flexibility of SAP’s cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success. 

RISE with SAP Link: bit.ly/3u27Ay6

Please take a moment to subscribe as we talk growth with Ron Schneidermann, AllTrails CEO.

We discussed:

* “I am not a Zero to one Guy,” taking on the AllTrails leadership challenge (05:00)

* Why Ron is a big believer in Product/Channel fit (08:01)

* “Pouring too much water on a seed causes it to rot;” avoiding traps with paid channels (00:00)

* “My job is to get out of the way” - How Ron views the CEO Role (09:40)

* Raising money and sticking to your values (10:20)

* “Humility is our culture” (58:40)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, hosts Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr speak with Jon Chang who recently took on the Head of Growth role at Nate. Nate is a new service that allows consumers to buy products from any e-commerce site with just one click. You may remember Jon from his first appearance on the podcast when he was a growth lead at Klarna, a rocketship Fintech company now valued at more than $45 Billion. His experience and approach offer valuable insights for leaders at fast-growing companies struggling to hire the right people to build on strong growth rates as well as individual growth and marketing professionals who are looking to find their next great opportunities.

This week’s episode is sponsored by Rise with SAP.

Why did Jon leave this nearly 6000 person rocketship for a fast-growing, but relatively small 70 person startup? Well, when we saw Jon had shared a LinkedIn Post, by another former guest, Mayur Gupta (formerly Marketing/Growth lead at of Freshly and Spotify and now at Gannett Publications), it gave us a great starting point to answer that and other questions: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6883531385433321472/

Mayur encourages every marketer to get startup experience at some point in their journey, and suggests that the earlier the better. Jon agrees, and as a self-described builder, he explains not just why this matters, but also how it informs his approach for hiring and leading growth. 

Jon is obsessed with building teams and driving organizational efficiencies, but his approach is anything but clinical. From his thoughts on mentoring to his focus on soft skills, this discussion is really about a people-driven mindset to powering growth. 

Please remember to check out this week’s sponsor, RISE with SAP S/4Hana Cloud. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched together solutions to manage business finances, operations, and customer relations, leverage the flexibility of SAP’s cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success. 

RISE with SAP Link: bit.ly/3u27Ay6

We discussed:

* Moving from Klarna to Nate (03:35)

* Why startups need jack-of-all-trades personalities to be successful (06:20)

* Auditing the experience before you apply for a job (13:15)

* Challenges of measuring your impact in large organizations (20:30)

* Jon’s approach to

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

This week's episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast is brought to you by Rise with SAP and includes some incredible stories! Paul Malicki is the founder and CEO of Flapper, Brazil’s first on-demand private aviation marketplace, and his journey has been anything but boring. Hold onto your hats, as he tells Ethan and Sean about a negotiation he had in the Philippines where the other party placed a grenade and a gun on the desk and asked whether Paul was still not willing to budge from his proposed 70/30 revenue split?  

That story stems from his days launching Easy Taxi in developing countries, but the excitement has continued, as Paul moved from building a terrestrial taxi service to now building a taxi service of sorts for the skies. Paul’s vision is to turn private aviation into a mainstream travel option. From creating a marketplace where travelers can book empty seats on private jets and helicopters to offering on-demand charters, Flapper is blazing its own trail to breakout growth success.

In 2019 the business grew 251%, and even with the challenges of the global pandemic, Paul and his team still were able to realize ~100% year over year gains in 2020. Driving growth through the tumult required a quick pivot to leverage the skyrocketing demand for cargo and ambulance flights, but a scrappy, growth hacker’s mindset helped to keep the business on track through these difficult times.

Flappers ascent has been anything but easy. Aviation has traditionally been a tough industry in which to win, and Paul explains that it took 228 meetings to raise seed money for the business, and another 530 meetings to fund his Series A. But, he explains his determination very simply: “I was already here, I liked what I was doing, and it was a sexy business.” 

So sit back and enjoy one of our most fun and entertaining conversations of the year. We still get into the gritty details of team structure, growth engine, and all the other important elements of growth you expect from the podcast, but through Paul’s experience taking on challenges in developing, and not always friendly environments, we view growth from a unique and exciting vantage point. 

Before you jump in learn more about RISE with SAP S/4Hana Cloud here. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched together solutions to manage business finances, operations, and customer relations, leverage the flexibility of SAP’s cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success. 

RISE with SAP Link: bit.ly/3u27Ay6

Fasten your seatbelt for this one!

We discussed:

* A vision to change the way we travel (4:56)

* Why private aviation can be affordable (6:53)

* Learnings

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In this week’s episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by Rise with SAP, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr are joined by Sean’s co-author of “Hacking Growth” Morgan Brown. The book was published back in 2017, so in this episode, we get to hear the two guys who literally wrote the book on growth “geek out” about their most important growth learnings since their initial collaboration.

Morgan’s perspective on growth has been shaped by the leadership roles he has held at Inman News and Facebook, and in his current Vice-President of Growth position at Shopify. These companies are an order of magnitude larger than anything he and Sean had worked on prior to writing the book, so as we dive in we look to understand how the sheer scale of these businesses has impacted Morgan’s perspective. 

Would he write a different book or change anything today with the benefit of hindsight?

Morgan found incredible value in the understand, identify, execute, approach, that has molded Facebook into the most sophisticated growth organization in the world. At Shopify, he is now working to grow a team that leverages structured thinking to run trustworthy experiments that use the playbook of “Hacking Growth” at scale. Sean’s own experiences working with fast-growing companies since writing the book guide his thinking on these topics, and that makes for some fascinating discussion! 

There is plenty to learn in this episode, but before you jump in learn more about RISE with SAP S/4Hana Cloud here. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched together solutions to manage business finances, operations, and customer relations, leverage the flexibility of SAP’s cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success. 

RISE with SAP Link: bit.ly/3u27Ay6

Thanks for tuning in and please rate and review the Breakout Growth Podcast wherever you listen. 

We discussed:

* Scale matters: the humbling experiences of working at Facebook, the world’s most advanced growth organization (05:36)

* The sheer number of funnels: why scale offers so much opportunity to experiment (06:47)

* Building “trustworthy” experiments: developing the muscle to gain valuable learnings across an organization (11:51)

* Big bets versus smaller optimization: Morgan’s belief in Hacking Growth’s iterative process to drive value (20:18)

* Find the root cause: Learnings from Facebook’s understand, identify, execute approach  (25:47)

* Two books in one:

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In the last 48 months, the fintech app Truebill, which helps users manage their personal finances, has had 47 months of exceptional growth. But in this week’s episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by Rise with SAP, Ethan Garr and Sean Ellis find out that before this hypergrowth tear began, the company was actually on death’s doorstep.

Four years ago, the two-year-old startup had just three months of runway remaining, and Co-founder and Chief Revenue Officer Yahya Mokhtarzada was told by one of his investors that the only option was to sell. He figured the company had the bandwidth for two more experiments; one of those tests would change everything! The test shifted the business from an affiliate to a premium subscription model, and the surprising conversion result didn’t just buy more time, it was the final piece needed for Truebill to achieve Product/Market Fit.

Since then, Truebill’s breakout growth success has been a story of “eternal tweaking” where Yahya has come to learn that if you are doing growth right, resources never free up the way you expect. As Chief Revenue Officer in a B2C business, he sees his role as one of setting up teams to stay focused on the things that matter and ensuring individuals can continuously thrive by leveraging their creativity.

And creativity seems to be one of the key success factors for Truebill. If you download the app, you might be surprised by the “pay what you think is fair” pricing model, and other unique elements that drive users to aha moments where they start thinking about their finances and saving money in different ways.   

There is plenty to learn in this episode, but before you jump in learn more about RISE with SAP S/4Hana Cloud here. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched together solutions to manage business finances, operations, and customer relations, leverage the flexibility of SAP’s cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success. 

RISE with SAP Link: bit.ly/3u27Ay6

Thanks for tuning in. Please subscribe and share the Breakout Growth Podcast with your colleagues and friends.  

We discussed:

* “The app I always needed:” how an annoying $40/month subscription fee drove Truebill’s inception  (04:14)

* Chief Revenue Officer: a very different role in B2B vs. B2C (07:01)

* “We weren’t the cool kids:” Struggling to find traction and Product/Market Fit (11:10)

*  Crunch time: 3 months of runway and time for two experiments. What a last-chance test on premium subscriptions taught Truebill (22:27)

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

Show Notes:

In this week’s episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by Rise with SAP, Ethan Garr and Sean Ellis speak with Kieran Flanagan, Hubspot’s Senior Vice President of Marketing to learn what’s driving Hubspot’s unstoppable growth. With more than 100,000 customers and over $1 billion dollars in ARR, Hubspot is simply on fire. 

Kieran has been a growth leader at the company for nearly ten years. During that time the business has gone through massive changes. From its giant bet on Freemium to a more recent shift from inbound marketing to inbound media, the company has continuously reinvented itself in its quest to become the #1 CRM for scaling businesses.

However, despite Hubspot’s enormous scale and $37 billion valuation (at the time of recording), the insights and learnings from this discussion relate to businesses both large and small. Yes, at this size, Kieran does explain that he and his team have to focus on big bets because small optimizations just won’t have enough impact, but his framework for making smart decisions, taking risks, and building a culture where innovation can thrive is applicable for any company looking to drive breakout growth success.

Kieran is also forthcoming about the moments when he felt stuck trying to tackle specific problems. The strategies he employed to overcome these challenges offer practical lessons to help listeners see their way forward when they encounter roadblocks to growth. 

Before you jump into the episode, we encourage you to learn more about RISE with SAP S/4Hana Cloud. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched together solutions to manage business finances, operations, and customer relations, leverage the flexibility of SAP’s cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success. 

RISE with SAP Link: bit.ly/3u27Ay6

Thanks for tuning in to this episode with Kieran Flanagan, Hubspot’s Senior Vice President of Marketing, and please share the Breakout Growth Podcast with your colleagues and friends.  

We discussed:

*  Hubspot’s evolution into a modern-day CRM built for the internet (03:12)

* From “inbound marketing” to “inbound media:” why Hubspot is betting on building a true media organization to power growth (06:50)

* Organizing for growth as a large organization: With more than a billion dollars in ARR, Hubspot’s marketing team must think on a much bigger scale to source demand (08:28)

* The changing world of content consumption and “community” a

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat AI and growth with Ben Jeger, Moloco’s Vice President of EMEA. Moloco’s machine learning-based advertising solutions help marketers take advantage of advertising opportunities outside of the “walled gardens” of Google, Meta, and Amazon.

In the past year, AI has taken on a life of its own for good reason, but we wanted to dig beneath the hype cycle to understand how this technology will really impact the world of growth. With Ben, we got just that.

Moloco hasn’t changed its messaging to capitalize on the AI whirlwind, even though it’s fair to say they are an AI company.  They have simply continued their relentless focus on delivering customer outcomes.  In performance marketing, that is the only thing that matters, and as Ben says, “Fancy words don’t get us there.”

So in this discussion, we learn how these tools level the playing field for marketers and why they are so valuable for augmenting human capabilities. In addition, we get a picture of why Moloco has grown 5x in the past two years to a $2+ billion valuation, and how Ben is approaching his task of expanding the business throughout Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Moloco’s 10-year, overnight success story (07:50)

* Defining AI and Machine Learning (10:58)

* In performance marketing, sustainability is about long-term outcomes (14:41)

* “It’s not a lie to say we are an AI company,” but what matters is outcomes (17:51)

* Creating value outside of the “walled gardens” (27:43)

* Growing Moloco beyond gaming (33:52)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this week’s episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, Ethan Garr and Sean Ellis chat with Mark Tan, Director of Product, Platform & Community at Wyze, a smart home tech startup offering affordable cameras, lighting, sensors, and other devices to more than 5 million customers. But this conversation goes well beyond just the Wyze growth story. Mark is a leader in the growing Community-Led Growth movement, so it’s through that lens that we look to understand how companies are leveraging their own audiences of passionate users to achieve success. 

Over our 50 episode history, we have noticed that many of the world's fastest-growing companies leverage the strength of their own communities to drive outcomes. Glowforge showed us how a passionate userbase literally crowdsourced the company’s 3D laser printer into existence. EVBox credits its customer advocacy efforts as a major reason why the company has been able to lead an entire industry. But is Community-Led Growth an actionable approach or just new packaging for good product management? 

Mark explains that CLG is a real discipline that when executed with intentionality drives significant value. He has used it to power growth at Wyze, and in his former role at Amazon Video Games. He acknowledges that there are challenges in tracking community impact, but he explains how he and his team are using this approach to deliver value for their audiences. 

So let’s dive in with Mark Tan of Wyze and find out more about Community-Led Growth, a powerful mechanism for reflecting customer empathy into your products.

We discussed:

* (11:40) Measuring the impact of community-led growth efforts on overall growth rate.

* (20:26) Why direct feedback from customers isn't enough. There is a lot more honesty when customers talk to each other.

* (21:17) Why detractors in your community can actually be beneficial. 

* (23:20) Why hardware companies must embrace community-led growth to remain competitive.

* (30:36) How to organize your team for more effective community-led growth efforts.

* (49:02) The most important new thing that Mark has learned about growth in the last couple of years.

And much, much, more . . . 

“Are you creating impact?” That is the fundamental question that drives Heap’s Chief Marketing Officer, Lynn Girotto. Heap’s analytics platform is designed to help digital product managers “know where to look” by automatically surfacing insights and identifying friction points across the customer journey. Thanks to a unique approach to capturing data, where every end-user interaction is tracked, Lynn feels Heap is able to drive impact in more meaningful and valuable ways for clients. 

This episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast struck a chord for hosts Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr. When data is democratized, accessible, and easily visualized it drives curiosity and inspires creativity, but too often data becomes a black box that holds back growth. Heap exists to help teams align and leverage data, and that seems to couple well with Lynn’s approach to marketing.

Leveraging experience in senior marketing roles at top brands including Pepsi, Microsoft, and Starbucks, she is focused on helping her team see and measure their impact across the organization. From building a brand and tracking share of voice to optimizing Heap’s freemium offerings to build a pipeline, Lynn describes an approach to growth where constant inspiration and fostering a fun and supportive environment is powering growth.

From balancing the needs of self-service and higher touch clients to using data and insights to allocate resources, this episode offers something for anyone looking to create impact in their organization.

So take a listen as we dive into Heap’s story with Chief Marketing Officer, Lynn Girotto.

We discussed:

* Solving a key pain point (4:44)

* From Starbucks and Pepsi to Tableau and Heap (7:05)

* The Grandma Test, and a new approach to analytics (9:37)

* Self-service vs. hands-on customer relationships (22:00)

* “Are you creating impact,” and other CMO challenges (25:08)

* Measuring impact: brand, go-to-market, and customer insights (27:36)

* Fostering creativity and constant inspiration (30:25)

And much, much, more . . . 

Atlassian is the powerhouse behind popular productivity software brands including Jira, Confluence, Bitbucket, and Trello. Their solutions help more than 170,000 businesses, and in this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr are joined by Atlassian’s Senior Growth Product Manager, Andrea Ho. 

Today, Atlassian is one of the most respected and fast-growing companies in the world, but it took some time before the company was able to dial in growth. Andrea says she and many others in Australia have been attracted to this “homegrown unicorn” because the company is always innovating in its quest to create valuable, self-serve, low CAC, affordable enterprise software.  

Atlassian has done an artful job of capitalizing on its successes. Building and acquiring valuable products that help customers achieve their goals has helped create a strong brand and a powerful word-of-mouth engine. Andrea’s team is then tasked with the “expansion” part of the company’s “land and expand” growth approach.  They focus on getting clients to adopt Atlassian solutions across the full organization as well as on driving customers from one product within the Atlassian ecosystem to another.  

This approach has helped create the company’s enormous value. Atlassian currently has a market cap of over $62 billion and a team of over 5000 employees. But Andrea explains there is always more work to be done, and the team is constantly working to evolve its growth process.

So join us as we learn what’s driving Atlassian’s breakout growth success.

We discussed:

* What’s a growth product manager vs. a product manager? (4:01)

* Atlassian’s rise to global success (9:30)

* Why having a revenue goal has been a good challenge for Andrea (15:33)

* The “why” behind Atlassian’s new North Star Metric (17:25)

* Insights into the growth team structure (24:40)

* The “land and expand” growth engine (27:52)

And much, much, more . . .

You likely know Shutterstock as a stock photography company, but in this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, we discover that in its 17-year history, Shutterstock has grown into a creative powerhouse that provides everything from motion and special effects to music and full production services.

When Jamie Elden joined as Chief Global Revenue Officer the company was positioning itself around its technology, but Jamie who comes from a creative background felt that Shutterstock primarily spoke to creative audiences. To drive sustainable growth, he believed Shutterstock would need to refocus as a creative company. This would require a cultural shift and new efforts to personalize experiences for customers.

With an intense focus on speaking to creative people on their terms and making it simpler to engage with Shutterstock at every level, the company thrived through the pandemic. Personalization has become a mainstay of customer interactions, even in the self-service areas of the business. Jamie wants the company to speak to customers as humans, and in this conversation with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr, he explains how he has worked to make that a reality throughout the global organization.

And if you think the role of Chief Revenue Officer is all about numbers, this discussion may very well change your mind. Jamie talks about throwing away the spreadsheets and setting new goals to pivot without process. That is a bold approach for a business with 4,800 employees but it seems to be working.

This is one of our favorite episodes. As with our discussion with Noom’s founder and president Artem Petakov and our discussion with Georgia Vidler, Canva’s former Head of Product, this is a conversation that really shows the human side of breakout growth. Enjoy!

We discussed:

* Jamie’s journey to Shutterstock and what excited him about the opportunity (5:47)

* From creative company to creative company, not small business to big business (6:28)

* Coping with Covid, thriving through Covid (14:58)

* Kickstarting the culture at a large company that was plateauing internally  (18:49)

* Simplify, simplify, simplify! (23:45)

* Throw away the spreadsheets (31:48)

* Bring lessons from Tonik, a small business to Shutterstock  (44:53)

* Training for relationships (47:45)

And much, much, more . . . 

Television advertising used to be the domain of large, Fortune 500-type companies with deep pockets who could afford to invest in channels with low ROI visibility. For startups, TV advertising seemed to be an expensive experiment that would be pretty tough to prove its effectiveness. However, in this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr, we find out that things have changed dramatically. TV advertising is now more accessible, trackable, and very scalable if a test yields positive results.

To unpack the new potential of this medium we brought Philip Inghelbrecht, co-founder and CEO of Tatari, and Jamie Fontana, Senior Director of e-Commerce at Vuori to the conversation. You may already know Vuori, the fast-growing performance apparel company, and if you do it may be because of their television presence. Tatari executes Vuori’s ad-buying strategy, but Philip, who previously founded Shazam and TruCar, sees his company as a data and analytics company facilitating digital advertising and less as a media buying agency. 

As digital streaming is rapidly replacing broadcast television and cable, Philip’s team has developed technologies to unlock systems for measuring, buying, and optimizing television ad spends. Where companies used to face entry points north of $3 million just to test TV advertising, Philip says $100,000 is now a big enough budget to get in the game. For Vuori and even for smaller brands this puts the credibility of TV within reach. 

To measure the value of a campaign, companies used to depend on the slow and rudimentary feedback loops of Neilson surveys, but Tatari has developed technology to provide accurate, next-day reporting that brands can use to effectively optimize campaigns. At the same time, the costs and speed of creative development have dropped to more manageable levels making this a much more accessible medium.

Vuori’s experience is proof that TV can be an effective channel for growing brands. Jamie explains, “If you have a brand story to tell then TV and streaming are potentially valuable across your entire marketing funnel.” So, if you previously looked at TV as only a brand marketing channel, or a channel out of reach for your business, take a listen and see if this old channel has something new to offer for your business.

We discussed:

* Why better measurement, more transparent buying, and better creative optimization are now possible (11:45)

* The shift that has changed TV into a performance-centric, digital advertising platform (13:15)

* Putting TV credibility within reach for smaller brands and businesses, and  Vuori’s growth with TV through the pandemic (14:15)

* TV as a viable channel in an “outcome marketing” world (29:12)

* Far from dead! The future of cable, broadcast, and streaming opportunities (31:28)

And much, much, more . . .

The lines between product and growth are often gray, and in this week’s episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean and Ethan share more about this trend with their guest, JD Millwood, Vice-President of Product at Curve. 

Curve is a Fintech company on a mission to simplify the way people spend, send, see and save money. JD describes the Curve debit card as the first over the top platform for banking, and with innovations like the ability to finance purchases you have already made, he and his team seek to create a new and better banking experience for consumers.

JD previously held growth roles at Coinbase and Uber, and his role at Curve morphed from growth into product fairly recently. It has been a natural progression, and through this lens, JD sheds great insights into why growth people need to have a degree of ownership over the product to control their own destinies. At Curve, the growth team lives within his product organization, and the coupling of product and growth is a trend Ethan and Sean have been exploring with recent guests from Buffer, Canva, and other fast-growing organizations.

The approach is working. Despite huge challenges during the pandemic that put a temporary hold on an aggressive hiring plan, the company still expects to nearly double its headcount from about 330 today to over 600 employees by year’s end. Strong product/market fit continues to drive growth, but JD sees partnerships as Curve’s next big opportunity. Leveraging relationships with company’s like Samsung, the company is able to extend its B2C go-to-market strategy to B2B2C and greatly expand distribution. 

With an understanding of how product and growth work together, we dive into Curve’s “helix” team structure where data-driven thinking guides the prioritization of experiments and ensures engineering resources are not wasted on efforts that will not move the North Star Metric. We learn about the company’s growth engine, and how building excitement for users early drives referrals and retention. And we find out how a growth mindset drives great product leadership. 

Take a listen. For anyone focused on growth, this is a valuable discussion.

We discussed:

* A better way of banking in the fragmented world of Fintech (3:45)

* Why growth people need to have some control over product (6:30)

* How data challenges led to the product/marketing teams formation (9:10)

* Why JD saw a huge opportunity at Curve (11:25)

* Curve’s dangerous exposure during the pandemic  (17:05)

* Partnerships and B2B2C as the next big thing  (19:50)

* Structuring for growth (25:50)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean and Ethan have a learning-packed discussion with Pat Kinsel, Notarize’s Founder and CEO. Notarize provides an online service that makes the process of getting documents legally notarized fast and easy. Instead of meeting with a notary public in person, the entire process is managed digitally with integrated online meetings and digital signature technologies.

The company’s journey began about 6 years ago when Pat, who had previously sold a business to Twitter, needed to get documents notarized  When errors in the process turned into a stressful and annoying near-disaster, he realized that technology might solve the problem he experienced. But, he also knew he faced an uphill battle on the legal front.

With a partner who had government relations experience, he went to work to understand, and in many cases, change the laws related to notarization. Together, they navigated these challenges and discovered massive enterprise demand for a solution.

The company began to grow quickly and Pat and his team realized they had a superpower; they could get a call from a new business or industry looking for help with a notarization process, unpack and quickly understand the legal challenges, and adapt their solutions to solve the problem. Then, when the pandemic struck, the service became a must-have for the mortgage, title, and other industries.

Now, with 600% year over year growth, and a fresh round of venture capital ($130 million), Pat says the world will never go back to the old ways of solving these problems. Notarize was a far better solution before the pandemic, and the crisis has only served to amplify the need and expand the market. So take a listen, as The Breakout Growth Podcast explorers Notarize’s explosive success.

We discussed:

* How Pat’s own notarization frustrations drove the inception of the business (5:13)

* The massive impact of the pandemic on growth (8:20)

* Navigating the legal hurdles to make online notarization possible (8:44)

* How the product drew massive enterprise interest (9:30)

* The word-of-mouth engine behind Notarize.com’s success(11:15)

* How Covid forced Pat and his team to mature their go-to-market strategy (12:00)

* “Product/Delivery Fit” (23:22)

* The importance of distribution partners in the Notarize.com growth story (34:26)

And much, much, more . . . 

Recently, we have focused the lens of The Breakout Growth Podcast on the role of product in driving sustainable growth. We had a super-interesting conversation with Georgia Vidler, Canva’s former Head of Product, and this week we picked up that theme with Maria Thomas, Buffer’s Chief Product Officer. 

Buffer provides social media tools to facilitate authentic engagement with end-users. Customers can pre-schedule posts on multiple channels, engage with commenters, create reports, and more using the service. Maria is relatively new to the company, having previously served as VP of Product Management at Bitly, so it is interesting to hear her compare and contrast her experiences between these two fast-growing businesses.

To Maria, the single biggest growth driver at Buffer has been “brand beyond the product.” 

She explains that brand recognition is a tremendously important factor for both Buffer and Bitly, but with different go-to-market strategies Buffer’s brand in the context of its mission is what she sees as the company’s secret sauce.

The ability to speak to customers on a deeper mission-focused level has been a key factor in Buffer’s approach, and Maria explains that “Buffer was a product-led growth company even before PLG was cool.” From a product perspective, this has meant putting intense focus on building the user experience to power acquisition, retention, and expansion.  

We also learn that the company’s super-transparent culture that embraced remote work long before the pandemic began, has helped drive Buffer’s data-driven test/learn culture. However, it has also created interesting communications challenges along the way. As Maria describes how she has overcome these and other challenges, we get great insights into the world of growth from a product perspective.

This is a fun one, enjoy!

We discussed:

* Getting used to Buffer’s super transparent culture (3:30)

* How a well-known brand impacts growth, plus its impact on product (7:35)

* Highlighting Bitly vs. Buffer when it comes to go-to-market strategies (7:50)

* Key growth factors and challenges in Buffer’s Product Led Growth approach (8:34)

* Advantages and challenges of a no-meetings culture and asynchronous communications (13:05)

* Working with data; super-important but not a replacement for working with customers (19:41)

* Why MAU is the right North Star Metric to drive growth at Buffer (24:28)

* Organizational leadership where product and marketing are in constant communications (26:30)

* Why Maria believes in a dedicated growth team approach (27:00)

And much, much, more . . . 

Looking back after you have stepped away from something is often a great way to gain valuable insights, and in this episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean and Ethan have the unique opportunity to gain retrospective learnings from a conversation with Georgia Vidler, who, until recently, was Canva's Head of Product. 

If you are not familiar with Canva, their tagline says it all: “Amazingly simple graphic design software”. With a huge library of templates and a super-intuitive interface, Canva allows non-designers to create high-quality logos, social media ads, infographics, and more to power their businesses. By delivering on that promise, Canva has become Australia’s fastest-growing startup with a reported valuation of over $6 Billion.

Georgia has experience in product, marketing, and growth, and through that lens, she describes how Canva’s success took shape. It might surprise you to find out that the company bucked the “Lean Startup” convention and didn’t build a simple MVP, and when Georgia talks about data, you may find it refreshing when she explains that while she very much believes in metrics, she also feels that not everything that is worth doing is measurable. Her perspective reminds us that there is very little prescription in growth, but lots of inspiration!

Canva wants to be “the Google of design one day,” says Georgia and she believes the company is well on its way with a philosophy that puts customer happiness before revenue, and a structure that is constantly evolving to meet the demands of a fast-growing business.  While Canva may not be formulaic in its approach, she describes a culture that is systematic and intentional and focused on learning and growth. 

In this conversation, we walk through each component of Canva’s growth engine, gaining insights into how a cross-functional approach to improvements connects each piece of the business. We also see a great example of a North Star Metric helping to unify individuals and teams towards a common mission. 

So join us as Georgia Vidler takes a “look back” at her amazing journey to Head of Product at Canva.

We discussed:

* Georgia’s backstory from working in an incubator to heading product at Canva (3:28)

* How the product “felt delightful” and “made with love” and why that matters (9:31)

* Why Canva did not build a simple MVP (12:01)

* How using the product every day drives team member contributions (19:01)

* Metrics: they are not one-size-fits-all, or the be-all-end-all of growth (20:22)

* Happy Active Users - a North Star Metric that puts users in focus (23:05)

* Planning in seasons, not quarters (30:38)

* Deep diving into Canva’s Growth Engine (36:30)

“Ultimately, what it meant was we had to figure out ways we could resonate with an older audience . . . Stop talking to 18-year-olds and start talking to 50-year-olds!" 

This turned out to be a key, data-driven learning for Bradley Fehler, Echo’s Head of Growth, and fortunately, he and his team started to figure this out before 2020 brought unexpected and explosive growth.

Brad joins Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr on this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast to share Echo’s story of growing into England’s leading online pharmacy. The journey began when the company’s two co-founders faced different health problems and saw an opportunity to create a mobile app to meet an unsatisfied need. For many, a trip to the pharmacy is just one of life’s minor inconveniences, but for some getting their medication is a matter of life and death.

Before Covid, the business was growing well. The company had found ways to help consumers solve problems of adherence by creating a simple three-step process to get users to their first prescription delivery and then by optimizing notifications and reminders to ensure those same users were taking their doses and ordering refills as needed. But then Covid hit, and the company’s patient-base doubled in just three weeks.  

Brad explains the operational challenges of meeting that demand, and the mission-driven decisions the company made to ensure successful patient experiences.  At one point the company actually paused acquisition efforts just so everyone in the organization could focus on helping customers get their medications. Echo is a business that depends on patient trust, and one late delivery could shatter that relationship.  The company takes this responsibility very seriously.

So dive in with Sean and Ethan as The Breakout Growth Podcast looks to uncover key growth learnings with Bradley Fehler, Echo’s Head of Growth. 

We discussed:

* A mission to deliver the medications people need to get better or stay well (3:21)

* Anxiety and Asthma, the co-founder’s journey that led to Echo (4:51)

* Why Brad was excited to join a company with a patient-led approach (8:40)

* Growth to nearly 400,000 patients, accelerated by the pandemic (12:01)

* McKesson’s acquisition of Echo in June 2019 and its impact (16:34)

* Driving profitability by talking to the right audiences (17:50)

* Organizing for growth and using a North Star Metric (25:29)

* Word of Mouth Growth efforts with regulatory challenges (36:03)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Jonas Klink, Thrive Market’s Vice President of Product Management & Design. Thrive Market is a subscription-based online grocery delivery service that aims to make healthy living easy and affordable for everyone.  

And that is a perfect fit for Jonas, who has over 15 years of experience in eCommerce working at companies like eBay, Walmart, and WeightWatchers. As he thought about the next chapter in his career, Jonas wanted to find a mission-driven company where he could make a difference, and Thrive is proving to be the right place for him to have that impact.

So in this conversation, we dig deep into Jonas’ growth approach and his passion for building organizational learning velocity. Scientific rigor is at the heart of his process, but speed is key. He explains that to keep growth flowing, tests must focus on answering hypotheses, but they cannot get bogged down by everything else needed for broad distribution. 

If you have ever struggled to manage design in a high-tempo testing environment you will particularly enjoy this conversation. Jonas and his team have built a culture where UX and product are deeply connected so that design can flow into experimentation without encumbering it.

And that is just the beginning. From his use of the RICE prioritization framework to building alignment around a North Star Metric, Jonas is building the culture of experimentation most of us strive for as we look to accelerate growth.

So join us as we dive in with Jonas Klink and find out what’s driving breakout growth success at Thrive Market. 

We discussed:

* Sustainability, healthy living, and 18 million orders: (05:11)

* Bringing experience from Walmart, eBay, and Jet.com to Thrive Market  : (10:08)

* Organizing for rapid experimentation and great design: (14:54)

* Building a growth language where learnings replace failures: (30:58)

* The importance of lightweight process for teams: (39:11)

And much, much, more . . . 

Slip on your Oculus headset and FitXR will get your heart rate up. They are combining gaming, fitness, and virtual reality together to create immersive experiences where users can go dancing or jump into a boxing ring. The immersive part seems to really be working! “There have been some mishaps,” laughs Product Lead, Nejc Skoberne. “A few of our community members shared pictures of holes they accidentally punched in their walls.”

Nejc is excited, because FitXR is on an accelerating growth trajectory, in a growing marketplace where the rules are yet to be written. Virtual reality is still very much in its infancy. Players like FitXR must deal with the challenges of a relatively small hardware-driven ecosystem, but they also benefit from rapid innovation and new opportunities constantly emerging in this space. While the playbook has yet to be written, Nejc and the team are driving growth by learning from data and tapping into an enthusiastic community of users.

In our conversation, Nejc explains that virtual reality today is at a stage very similar to that of the early days of the mobile app industry. A few key hardware players like Oculus, Sony, and Steam are setting the framework. That means FitXR cannot easily offer a subscription model today and has to rely on one-off purchases. That’s a challenge in a world where Peloton and Mirror, and other at-home fitness systems have emerged, but those limitations also drive the team to focus and innovate within those constraints.

By the end of the discussion co-hosts Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr both wanted to try out the virtual boxing game, so take a listen and join us as we find out how FitXR is working to drive sustainable growth.

We discussed:

* What is FitXR? Think of products like Peloton reimagined for the virtual world (7:25)

* Why boxing and VR? How the founders came up with this innovation (9:18)

* Fitness, gaming, or a combination of both? (12:07)

* Challenges and opportunities in the emerging VR-hardware ecosystem (13:59)

* Growth as people were forced to stay home (15:20)

* What VR today has in common with the early days of the App Store (18:51)

* The emergence of communities and how they drive growth (19:40)

* When there is no playbook for growth, focus on end-user value (23:50)

* Putting data to work and using Amplitude to drive learnings (27:40)

* Subscriptions are not yet possible, FitXR’s business model today (33:20)

* Winning with Product/Market Fit (38:20)

And much, much, more . . .

Few industries have been hit harder by Covid-19 than gyms, but despite the lockdowns and forced closures, many have actually weathered the storm. In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, we will find out how one company helped make that possible, and why their growth approach was crucial in supporting clients through these turbulent times. Daan Bakker is VirtuaGym’s VP of Growth and in our conversation, he explains that the company started with an app, and grew into an all-in-one tool that helps gyms and trainers navigate everything from scheduling to workout plans.

Many of those tools would have been useless if Covid closed their client’s doors and disconnected members from their gyms. But VirtuaGym had been growing internationally with 50 - 100% YoY returns for a reason. They were quick to innovate and whether it meant helping gyms schedule Zoom workouts, or building interactive connections between trainers and clients, they were up to the task. Daan also spun up the company’s FitNation podcasts and webinars, which focus on helping fitness entrepreneurs find the tools and approaches to move forward and grow through Covid.

These pivots have all been about putting the focus on VirtuaGym’s clients (and their client’s customers) and that has helped drive growth in the face of adversity. A big part of that has been the growth team’s unique ability to influence fast change within the organization.
Daan says when he joined the company had many functional silos, but the more he and his team interjected themselves and found ways to show results, the more effective they have been in driving cross-functional success.

We discussed:

* How VirtuaGym looks to deliver on a promise to make fitness professional’s lives easier by automating everything in one place (2:34)

* Why success means not just helping customers, but helping their customers too (6:45)

* How the founders’ story and the company’s original app-based approach developed (7:02)

* Compliance and Covid-19; how VirtuaGym became an integral link for gyms and trainers (9:25)

* Spinning up the FitNation Webinars and Podcasts to help the community navigate the crisis (13:20)

* The future of gyms beyond the pandemic (16:00)

* VirtuaGym’s successful SaaS model growth (22:55)

* The Growth Team’s critical role as the “oil’ between departments (29:25)

* How bringing value in growth became a powerful tool in breaking down silos (37:47)

And much, much, more . . .

We thought Noom was a weight loss company, but in this episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr discovered that weight management is actually just the gateway the company is using to meet much larger objectives. In-fact, as Artem Petakov, Co-Founder and President of Noom explains, Noom is the largest consumer-facing healthcare company in the world, and its goal is to help people make healthy choices and to change people’s lives. 

During the pandemic, Noom’s popularity exploded, but their journey actually began more than 12 years ago, when Artem and his co-founders began looking for the most meaningful ways they could make an impact in the world. Artem had studied behavioral science and knew that behavior change requires a big data set. He and his co-founders realized that using weight management as an entry point into people’s overall health could unlock the giant data set they sought. 

The company’s approach to solving weight problems is very different from other solutions as Sean realized when he recently began his own Noom customer journey. There are no point systems or physical locations, and the company’s mobile app focuses on intervention, not tracking. The system uses data and psychology to help change how people think about food. With this approach, breakout growth has come into focus, and Artem is intent on “building the machine to get things right.”  

Rigorous experimentation and a maniacal focus on people and process helped drive Noom’s 2020’s revenue to around $400 million dollars (nearly twice that of 2019), but throughout the conversation, it became clear that for Artem, this is just the beginning. The company measures success by Quality-Adjusted Life Years, which means success for them is not just about dollars, it is about helping people live longer, better and healthier lives.

So join us as we find out how sustainable growth is being built every day at Noom. 

We discussed:

* A mission much larger than weight management (3:18)

* How the question, “what would we be proud of having done on our deathbeds,” helped drive Noom’s founders (5:17)

* Why Noom chose to focus on the consumer as the ultimate decision-maker but has kept enterprise partnerships on its menu (8:46)

* How an early consultation with Sean helped bring a North Star Metric and a test/learn approach into Noom’s process (11:30)

* Leaning on psychology internally to drive a more effective organization (14:23)

* What drove Noom’s tremendous year over year revenue growth (21:23)

* Why Noom believes “brainpower is greater than willpower” (23:01)

* Building healthy relationships with customers to impact healthy changes (28:28)

* Why 60 or so steps to onboarding works for Noom in the context of its mission (33:21)

* Why Artem believes a maniacal focus on people and process is key for sustainable growth (38:18)

And much, much, more . . . 

Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

Is it just luck that determines which companies successfully find and harness Product/Market Fit? Or are there specific strategies teams can employ to systematically take ideas through this elusive gate? 

In this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean Ellis digs in with product management coach, speaker and author, Itamar Gilad to answer these questions and explain and uncover what every organization--from early startup to established team--can do to find and capitalize on product/market fit. 

On BreakoutGrowth.net, the new companion site to this podcast, Sean and Ethan share their Principles of Sustainable Growth, and at the top of the list is the importance of “Dialing-in the ‘Must-Have’ Experience” first. Itamar, who developed his own GIST framework to help companies achieve breakout growth success, deconstructs his process for finding this fit and explains why many companies fail when they focus on validating solutions instead of truly understanding their customer needs.

But this isn’t just a discussion for early-stage startups. Itamar and Sean explain that Product/Market Fit is not just an obstacle to overcome, but the foundation of growth. Organizations must continuously work to optimize and iterate to stay relevant, meet changing needs, and expand their audiences. Even new features in well-established products need to be evaluated through their own product-market fit lenses.

So whether you are two co-founders with an idea, or leading the next big idea for an enterprise business, this discussion can help you find the focus, tools, and approaches to best position your organization to unlock growth.

We discussed:

* Itamar’s experience from software engineer to product lead at companies including Microsoft and Google (3:17)

* Why many companies fall into the trap of trying to grow without Product/Market Fit (7:14)

* Why Fit matters for both startups and established organizations (8:38)

* Itamar’s GIST Framework for sustainable growth success (11:12) 

* Why it can be so hard to accept that your idea is wrong (14:30)  

* Whose job it is to find Product/Market Fit (17:45)

* The “Renaissance Rep” and how this role can help understand needs (18:40)

* How finding fit varies in B2C, B2B and Enterprise (22:24)

* The role of luck and how to make your own (35:00)

* Why these concepts should always be in focus if you want to stay relevant (46:21)

And much, much, more . . .